▶ 0:05:19The subcommittee on the Middle East in North Africa will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to provide an opportunity to examine how merit-based systems and management authorities can be applied to uphold high standards and ensure a missiondriven foreign service that serves America's interests abroad. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Today we convene to examine the State Department's personnel management framework.
▶ 0:05:45We will assess how accountability, merit, and performance evaluation practices within the foreign service support or hinder the department's core mission of advancing American interests abroad. I want to thank our witness, senior bureau official for the Bureau of Human Resources, Sarah McKe, for appearing before us today. The United States Foreign Service is one of our nation's most important strategic foreign policy assets.
▶ 0:06:12Foreign service officers are on the front lines of diplomacy and serve in some of the most dangerous and complex environments around the world. They advance American strategic objectives, support US citizens overseas, manage critical programs, and represent the United States and American values across the globe. Their work is Mission effectiveness depends on more than just talent and dedication.
▶ 0:06:37It requires a system that rewards excellence, ensures accountability, and develops leadership. Critically, it must also align individual performance with national security priorities. If our personnel processes are misaligned or inconsistent, we risk diluting mission focus and weakening diplomatic efforts.
▶ 0:06:58This hearing provides an opportunity to review whether the State Department's current evaluation and accountability mechanisms are serving the needs of the service. Here we will examine whether officials are equipped to deliver clear and objective evaluations, whether promotion core percepts reflect today's geopolitical realities, and whether the system can properly distinguish high performance from mediocrity.
▶ 0:07:28We will also consider whether underperformance is addressed in a timely and fair manner and whether leadership pathways are producing the senior official officers our country requires. As lead at the Bureau of Human Resources, M. McKenna is uniquely positioned to provide insight into how career development policies are implemented across the service.
▶ 0:07:51Her experience overseeing personnel management, assignments, evaluations, and professional development will help inform Congress so that we can better support reforms that strengthen accountability while preserving the merit-based foundation of the foreign service. At a time of intensifying strategic competition, restoring and maintaining mission focus at the State Department is a national security imperative.
▶ 0:08:16Congress has a responsibility to ensure that the department's personnel systems are structured to advance clear strategic objectives, promote leadership excellence, and uphold the highest standards of performance and integrity. This subcommittee is committed to ensuring that our diplomats are supported by a system that is fair, accountable, and align with America's priorities. Mr.
▶ 0:08:41Mckame, we look forward to your testimony and to a productive discussion about how we can reinforce accountability and strengthen strategic alignment within the foreign service. With that, I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Sherman, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:08:56I want to commend uh uh the majority for having brought us a government witness and also for focusing on how the state department is run uh not just regional but also the functional side of our subcommittee's work. But I do want to point out that we have not had a uh a government witness to talk to us about Iran. And with all due respect uh to Mr. Ms.
▶ 0:09:24M Kimmy uh and and the functioning I think Iran is what's on people's minds now. I would hope that we would have a government witness to talk to us about the bombing of Iran uh when Congress reconvenes in about 10 days and I would urge that upon uh the leadership of the committee.
▶ 0:09:45Um for a long time the full committee had recently a full committee hearing on the need to promote our economic positions and yet the state department tends to recruit at diplomacy schools and rarely recruits MBAs.
▶ 0:10:03Uh the state department from the 1940s to the 1970s had a series of commissions and panels saying that this apartheid divide that the state department has between the privileged foreign service and those who are civil service uh has uh has not been explored and uh uh the uh uh the difference in in benefits and promotions and protections are very different and they shouldn't be.
▶ 0:10:32Um we are told that this state department believes in merit base and yet first you start with a fork on the road which basically invited those of your employees with the best prospects to make money in the private sector to leave. So you lo leave you lose the best people at least in the view of the private sector. Then you go to riffs reductions in force and you fire people based on what job they happen to have at the time rather than their capacity.
▶ 0:11:01And since in the State Department it's pretty much a lot of musical chairs, you may have somebody who was doing a great job at job A that you thought was very important job, but this particular month they're doing job B. Instead of retaining that person, you fired them and whoever was doing that job A could have a terrible performance report, but they happen to be sitting in the chair that you liked at the time the music stopped.
▶ 0:11:28Um, we uh the most Republicans quite rightly say that we should run the government more like a business. A business recognizes that its employees are its most valuable assets and we have decimated that valuable asset. Uh one example is how the Doge personnel cuts uh hit cyber security a and now they're working in Iran to see how they can attack America through cyber attacks.
▶ 0:11:55We are uh well defended by our military uh by our military. We are not as well defended as we should be from cyber attacks. Uh certainly you try maintain the morale of your workforce when you have your president saying uh that uh they are crooked people, they are dishonest people, you do not enhance morale.
▶ 0:12:21Uh that's why uh a recent uh American foreign service association report said 98% of the foreign service regards uh has had uh uh morale. Um we need to uh recruit the people who understand not just the language but the culture of the countries we work in.
▶ 0:12:45And the greatest uh advantage America has is that we are a combination of literally hundreds of different ethnicities and nationalities. Uh and so we have lots of people who are native speakers and who understand the culture and then we have a rule at the State Department that says, "Oh, if you're familiar with that country, you're not allowed to work in that country." uh to say that uh American citizens of this or
▶ 0:13:15that heritage uh might be loyal to the homeland of their grandparents uh is is absurd. Uh it is wrong. It is discriminatory and it costs us because we have people who understand culture and language and instead we put somebody there who tried to learn the language at some at some school.
▶ 0:13:38Um uh finally I I'll point out that uh only for a temporary time am I uh assigned to be the ranking member of two different subcommittees. This one and one over in financial services. And that is why I'm pleased that the uh uh the gentleman from New York will be sitting in as temporary ranking member uh for much of this hearing.
▶ 0:14:02It's a very important hearing and I will be back and I yield I thank the gentleman from California. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have the senior bureau official for the Bureau of Human Resources at the US Department of State, Miss Sarah McKenna, before us today.
▶ 0:14:25Your full statement will be made part of the record and I'll ask you to keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for member questions. I now recognize Miss McKe for an opening statement. Chairman, ranking member and distinguished members of the committee.
▶ 0:14:51Thank you for the opportunity to testify We are committed to shaping and managing the state department work.
▶ 0:15:22Does it work now? There we go. Okay.
▶ 0:15:32Thank you. Sorry.
▶ 0:15:33No, no problem. Um uh thank you for the opportunity to testify today regarding our efforts to improve merit accountability and performance standards in the foreign service. We are committed to shaping and managing a state department workforce that is best prepared to deliver on the president's foreign policy agenda. Under President Trump's leadership and Secretary Rubio's direction, we're creating a Department of State workforce that is agile, merit-based, and laser focused on delivering results.
▶ 0:15:59Every hiring decision, every promotion, every assignment must serve our national security objectives and make us safer, stronger, and more prosperous. Ensuring that the Department of State fully aligns with the president's America first agenda is my highest priority. Success of this mission rests on the combined efforts of foreign service employees, civil service employees, and locally employed staff both domestically and around the world, leveraging their wide-ranging knowledge and expertise to advance the interests of the United States.
▶ 0:16:28This requires a personnel system that rewards merit and professionalism, the core mandate of the Foreign Service Act. We are undertaking comprehensive reforms across the entire foreign service personnel life cycle, including recruitment, assignments, and performance management. These changes will promote better accountability, ensure high performers are appropriately recognized and rewarded, and put the right people in the right places to create a workforce capable of meeting today's complex geopolitical challenges.
▶ 0:16:58We're fully committed to aligning department hiring practices with the executive orders on reforming the federal hiring process and restoring merit and ensuring continued accountability in federal hiring. Our plan to recruit the best foreign service candidates includes reforms to the foreign service officer test and assessment that will better identify individuals who possess not only the necessary skills and knowledge but also the judgment and commitment to advance American interests.
▶ 0:17:25Consistent with OPM guidance and the executive order on federal hiring and restoring merit, Secretary Rubio approved changes to the foreign service officer test in June that modernized and aligned it with the president's America first agenda. This updated test was administered for the first time in October.
▶ 0:17:41More than 5,000 candidates participated, roughly double the number of candidates in October Once we bring talented individuals into the department, we must ensure that they perform at the highest level and that performance evaluations promote responsibility and accountability.
▶ 0:17:59For foreign service employees, we're establishing clearer standards that link individual contributions to mission outcomes and national security The updated foreign service core precepts reflect the competencies determined to be the most critical to successful service throughout a foreign service career and in which foreign service members must demonstrate potential in order to advance.
▶ 0:18:21In addition, a supervisory goal has been added to make sure managers hold their subordinates accountable and each precept now has a supervisory component. This will allow employees to benefit from meaningful feedback on their performance throughout the process alongside required professional development and counseling sessions, allowing them to identifying areas for improvement and provide employees with actionable steps to improve when needed.
▶ 0:18:46We're also reviewing training and professional development programs to ensure all employees receive the preparation they need to excel in their roles, no matter the environment. The department is focused on implementing the highest standards in all training offerings, including during the initial foreign service orientation. Testing students on the material throughout the course reinforces their training, reveals gaps in understanding, ensures that they can apply their material to future positions, and ensures accountability.
▶ 0:19:11Similar testing to measure progress is included in most of the department long-term training Merit and professionalism demand accountability, and we are committed to delivering it. We have strengthened our performance and disciplinary processes to ensure that employees who fail to meet performance standards or engage in misconduct face timely and appropriate This includes defi decisively addressing CA cases involving allegations of hostile work environment and unressed misconduct behaviors that undermine both mission effectiveness
▶ 0:19:41and employee morale. When misconduct is substantiated by our investigations, we act decisively, taking appropriate timely disciplinary action consistent with applicable laws and regulations. The Foreign Service Act of 1980 has served as the foundation of our structure, administration, personnel systems, compensation, retirement, training, and labor management relations for over four decades and continues to guide our work as we align the department with President Trump and Secretary's priorities over building a robust dynamic workforce of the 21st century.
▶ 0:20:11Additional reforms may be For example, we have identified several places within the Foreign Service Act where discriminatory DEI language related to recruitment and selection boards should be eliminated. We welcome the opportunity to collaborate with the committee on this and other efforts. I look forward to your questions and continued collaboration with the committee moving forward on workforce
▶ 0:20:33Thank you, Miss McKenna. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. The core precepts at state provide the guidelines to determine the tenure and promotion of foreign service officers. Currently, these competencies include fidelity, communication, leadership, management, and knowledge. State measures each of these competencies in candidates to rank them against each other. Uh, and a selection board uses that standard to promote the officers at the top.
▶ 0:21:02Those that don't make the cut after enough time are let go. It's supposed to be a meticulous system that rewards only the best and brightest. A system that creates a gold standard for US diplomacy. But in doing so, it gives great power to the selection boards, essentially putting people's careers and families in their hands. Any change to the core precepts can have a significant impact on our foreign service.
▶ 0:21:28Miss McKe, given some of the department's recent internal changes, what is the current process for negotiating core
▶ 0:21:38Uh, thank you chairman for the question. The core precepts that we have currently um we have a lot of information available to employees to help guide them in writing their evaluations in order to reflect how they're achieving competencies in those precepts. Um, we have advertised those on a website for all of our employees to access.
▶ 0:21:59And we're doing continuous conversations with supervisors and the employees themselves in order to ensure that they understand expectations related to those
▶ 0:22:10Okay. And is there that is a standard or formal procedure?
▶ 0:22:16Yes, it is.
▶ 0:22:17Okay. Uh right now who are all the players involved in determining and negotiating the services core precepts both within the department and external?
▶ 0:22:27Uh currently the the precepts are have been decided um by it's a combination of individuals who are in department leadership and it's a reflection of uh what we believe would be um held by the most qualified officers in order to have a fully successful career in the And do promotion outcomes vary by cone or region post?
▶ 0:22:55Yes, promotion outcomes um vary by cone both within the generalist cone and the specialist cone. Um does not vary by post because we look at the foreign service globally.
▶ 0:23:10And training is critical for foreign service officers as they represent our country abroad and operate in complex highstakes environments where mistakes can have serious diplomatic, economic or security consequences. Uh is there any mechanism in place to incentivize new trainings as part of the promotional
▶ 0:23:30Yes. Um we incentivize training at every level and encourage people to uh participate in the training that we offer through the National Foreign Affairs Training Center.
▶ 0:23:49How uh have the State Department's recent changes to the written foreign service officer test better align the test parameters with the skills required uh to effectively serve as a foreign service officer?
▶ 0:24:03Um what we have we've changed the test questions to focus more on relevant competencies, logic and reasoning. Um, we've removed some of the the parts of the test that required a more subjective
▶ 0:24:22Personnel management at the foreign service is a merit-based approach. How is this approach enabled the state department to effectively identify, reward, and advance those best qualified to serve in the foreign service? Uh we have recently updated our employee valuation system uh for the foreign service.
▶ 0:24:43We have introduced um several of the datadriven merit-based um d uh ways to kind of assess officers as they progress in their career. By doing so, it's we've removed some of the longer descriptive paragraphs and tried to um narrow it down to more specific things driven by metrics to showcase how officers are performing.
▶ 0:25:12And are there any characteristics of the merit-based personnel system that the State Department intends to reconsider or that we should pay special attention to as we go through this reauthorization not that I can think of, but I welcome your feedback if there's anything.
▶ 0:25:32Okay. Uh, I yield back the remainder of my time. I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, uh, Mr. Meeks from New York for 5 minutes.
▶ 0:25:43Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I'm long I've long supported the Wrangle, Pickering, and Payne uh fellowships, which for years have helped recruit and retain talented Americans, particularly from historically underrepresented communities into the State Department's workforce.
▶ 0:26:08These programs have enjoyed strong bipartisan support, including in the FY26 National Defense Authorization Act. And I have my December 2005 letter that I'd like to enter into the record.
▶ 0:26:24Without objection.
▶ 0:26:27Um, now I got to tell you, I'm deeply concerned uh by the department's recent handling uh of these fellowships. The department dismissed the staff that who administered these programs and required fellows to retake uh the foreign service officers tests despite them already passing it and altered the terms of the contracts that had already been offered to the participants. So Mr.
▶ 0:26:55McKenna I understand that the department is now I guess reviewing the future of these Now you know that these fellowships were created and established in law correct this is law that we have is established. So what exactly is being reviewed and when will that review be completed?
▶ 0:27:22Thank you uh ranking member for your question. Um we have been reviewing the the pipelines but we the department intends to uphold all of our contractual obligations and bring in all the fellows uh that are currently in the pipeline.
▶ 0:27:37So and for fiscal year 26 the NDAA. So you're saying you will commit also to fully implement those fellowship programs as mandated also?
▶ 0:27:50Yes sir. We are looking at all of the fellowships that we are mandatorily uh required and we will um continue to onboard them through the pipeline.
▶ 0:28:00All right. So what's the timeline for them to be uh into the uh the the foreign service classes that uh that they have been accepted into? You know
▶ 0:28:11um I can tell you that we had approximately 30 onboarded in uh the September and January class. We're expecting I think over 25 coming up in our April class. Um and we will continue to incorporate them in the future orientation classes. now as I stated earlier, they had passed the test previously. Do they have to retake the test?
▶ 0:28:38Yes, everyone that is on our register uh retook the the revised foreign service officer test and the intent was to assess everyone by the same instrument as they um uh were ranked on the register.
▶ 0:28:55And was there a need I mean they had passed the test that I guess uh our foreign service officers had passed for decades. Um, so what was the reason why they have to be retested when they had passed and qualified? I I don't really understand that one.
▶ 0:29:15Um, as we introducing the the new test and bringing in people on the register who had scores from that new test, we wanted to create a balance and assess everyone on the register using the same metric. So, we had everyone retake the new test.
▶ 0:29:30And so, um, I know you passed the date test. I I just and I really want to get to another question, but I'm stuck because I really don't understand because generally the contract you pass the test, you assigned to a certain class, and it just seems to me that you should be then put into that class, but then the individuals have to be retested.
▶ 0:29:55Uh, you know, um, is this now open to a broader I don't know, a broader number of people, a broader population, a broader as far as this test is concerned. Now,
▶ 0:30:12no sir, the way we order people on the register to be pulled into orientation classes based off of their score from their test. So, allowing them to retake the test gave them the chance to move either up.
▶ 0:30:23So, let let me just ask this then. This committee has repeatedly requested for information on how last year's reduction in force was conducted and the department's assessment of the expertise lost at taxpayer expense. We haven't received that information and so let me just ask real quickly. Um has the department conducted a damage assessment of the skills and expertise lost as a result of the reduction in force? And if so, can we get that information from you know to the committee?
▶ 0:30:53the department um continues to operate and more agile and um we will continue to execute on the secretary and the president's mission.
▶ 0:31:03So I have that that assessment are you going to do an assessment?
▶ 0:31:07Uh we are the reorganization is still ongoing and um I think we have uh we're still pending. Um if there's information specifically that you're looking for I'm happy to take that back.
▶ 0:31:22Okay. because I am and I know I'm time but because what I am interested in is for example I know that there are you know uh people who were fluent in certain languages Chinese Arabic fsy uh and they were separated during the riff period and so I want to know how many fluent speakers of those languages remain in the department today so if you could get me that information that would be uh really important uh and professional proficiency in critical languages are really important so I' I'd love to have that ation.
▶ 0:31:57Thank you.
▶ 0:31:59Thank you to the ranking member. I now recognize uh for five minutes the acting ranking member of the committee, Mr.
▶ 0:32:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, M. McKenna. Uh want to ask a couple of questions related to this balance between professionalism, merit, and loyalty and ideological uh synchronization. Section 1128 of Public Law 108-1365USC 7101 requires an annual survey called the Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey.
▶ 0:32:31The Office of Personnel Management announced last August 2025 that the 2025 survey would be cancelled. Is that a correct statement to your knowledge? Okay. Now having that type of a survey where you're speaking to the people uh within the agency and getting their opinions uh about what represents for them the right strategies and forward was was it a wise decision to cancel that survey in your opinion?
▶ 0:33:02And I we always hear um we always get feedback from the workforce in our office and so we have continual relationship with them
▶ 0:33:11and and that decision that by OPM wasn't that directly in violation of the law because there's a law that requires that survey. It was first initiated in 2002 under the presidency of George W. Bush. Do you think that management should seek formal input from the workforce, the human capital in in a structured way aside from an happenstantial way?
▶ 0:33:35Yes, sir. I think we uh I don't know the exact number, but I know there are several surveys that go out every year to the workforce. I think there has been an effort to combine a few of those in order to streamline that. I and I think we'd be interested in seeing what those surveys are like so that we can make some judgment to see how it compares with the requirement that there be uh an FEVS survey on a regular basis. Um are you familiar with the American Foreign Service Association survey?
▶ 0:34:04They did a report on December 3rd of last year. Are you familiar with that report? Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter this into the record of the committee.
▶ 0:34:14Thank you. the uh the report surveyed and it's done by an external organization association of uh foreign service employees not directly under government control but people with such experience 2100 diplomats uh they did a survey and the December 3rd report came out with some rather striking numbers I'm not sure if you're aware of them but if you have read the report maybe you are this report said that uh 98% of the respondents reported that there was poor morale in in the agency 54
▶ 0:34:444% of them cited that there was negative political influence at work. Onethird of the respondents considered leaving the foreign service and 86% of the respondents said that the workforce changes that were implemented as of January 2025. I recognize you came in in December of 2025, but it reduced their ability to be effective. If you've read the report, what kind of a commentary can you can you respond to on that?
▶ 0:35:12Um I prior to being in this position I was in the foreign service myself for 10 years. So I have a lot of friends who are in the workforce who are careers and um from what I've heard from them a lot of them are very excited and looking forward to um our introductions of accountability and other reforms and are um uh eager to work in a department that's more agile and mission Do you believe that there should be a nonpartisan
▶ 0:35:42career foreign service or do you believe that the career service employees should be uh in sync partisanly in sync with the president's goals and objectives? You alluded to uh America first agenda. Um the foreign service officers take an oath to uphold the constitution and enforce the administration's policies and they uh should continue to do that regardless of who is in power.
▶ 0:36:10But does that mean then that if a person has a career in this uh in this field they may serve under different presidents with different ideologies. Does the the president of the moment and their agenda and ideology uh represent a requirement for the career professional to align to?
▶ 0:36:31The president is um the implementer of foreign policy and it is our mission to to to bring that foreign policy um to Well, I I think the the concern that that many of us would have as I have the last few seconds of my time here is that merit and experience if it is supposed to be the the top of the pyramid in all of these things can't be subordinate under an ideological commitment where someone says this
▶ 0:37:01is the agenda of leadership and we have to implement it. Uh Mr. Chairman, I yield back my two
▶ 0:37:08Thank you uh Mr. Latimer. I now recognize the gentleman from Montana, Mr. Zinci for five minutes.
▶ 0:37:16Thank you. Uh, pursuant to the the conversation, was DEI a consideration in hiring under President Biden?
▶ 0:37:25Yes, Congressman,
▶ 0:37:27it was
▶ 0:37:28and DEI being definition of DEI, was it based on merit or was it based on gender, sex, uh, position on on social
▶ 0:37:40Yes, that's exactly right. So what you're saying is this administration what we're doing now is being based hiring based on merit.
▶ 0:37:48Yes sir. That is our goal is to look for the most qualified individuals who will perform well in the for
▶ 0:37:54and the qualified individuals would be on character and background and and talent.
▶ 0:38:04Yes sir. Exactly. And leadership management ability and communication.
▶ 0:38:08Thank you. I yield. I thank the gentleman from Montana. I now recognize Mr. Mfume for five
▶ 0:38:21Thank you. Uh Mr. Chairman, I [clears throat] have a uh subcommittee that meets here on a regular basis and we're always on that end. So [laughter] that's why I went down there. But it made me realize that we need to knock this wall out.
▶ 0:38:36But you are welcome to come down.
▶ 0:38:37Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no. I'm I'm okay. [laughter] I'm okay. Um, Miss McKim, did I hear that you came over to the State Department or to your position, I should say, last year?
▶ 0:38:50Yes, sir. December.
▶ 0:38:51In December. Okay. And you've had a chance, I assume, to kind of do your own assessment of what's going on and what's not going on. Anything you want to share with the committee that you think is important for you in this new role to focus on in particular? Um I think that we have an incredibly talented workforce.
▶ 0:39:09I think that um we have a lot of experience and knowledge within the department and we in um the Bureau of Human Resources are focused on moving them into the most critical positions for the administration so that they can do
▶ 0:39:24the things that [clears throat] they are best at doing.
▶ 0:39:26Okay. I I want to come back to that. I I you know, our foreign service professionals carry out our nation's diplomatic efforts every year in every way they can. Um they work to free detained Americans overseas, assist families doing evacuations and emergencies, and uh to work with humanitarian causes for humanitarian reasons, but also uh to make sure that our people are safe.
▶ 0:39:50I know this does not concern you, but I'm hoping that the State Department is moving with great dispatch to get 1,800 Americans who are trapped in the Middle East back home. We met, the three of us, the four of us, uh, in a briefing with the Secretary of State, Mr. Rubio, who talked about how charters, private charters, military flights, uh, and other things were being assembled, including commercial flights to try to get that done.
▶ 0:40:19Now, I know this has nothing to do while we're here today, but I I just want to be on the record again because many of those persons uh live in districts of members of this Congress. So, it is important for all of us, Democrats and Republicans, to focus on that, which is why we bring it up as often as we can in these last 72 hours um to do the work that they have to do. Employees at the State Department have to draw on the full range of American talent.
▶ 0:40:46Under the previous administration, as was questioned a little while ago, a diverse State Department workforce was prioritized because it improves diplomacy. A workforce drawn from various backgrounds creates greater cultural competency. Would you agree with that?
▶ 0:41:04Yes, sir. And that sort of competency and that kind of uh various expertise builds trust with communities and our counterparts overseas. Would you agree with that?
▶ 0:41:18Yes, sir.
▶ 0:41:19Okay. Um and I'm talking about people who are skeptical of US intentions when we've got a diverse workforce particularly in the foreign service interacting with them. I just think we are able uh to do more to help further our missions, but certainly to bring about the sort of trust that that is needed to take place. Um as the senior official responsible for overseeing um the Bureau of Personnel and Training, you're responsible for ensuring compliance with the law. Is that correct?
▶ 0:41:50Yes. including the foreign service act which mandates that the foreign service be representative of the American people. Is that right?
▶ 0:42:00Yes, sir.
▶ 0:42:01I happen to believe that meritocracy and DEI can coexist. I don't think it's one or the other. And when you look at that act and what it mandates, it seems that it's easier to get to that point by not completely doing away with one or the other, but to have them operating in such a way that they complement each other.
▶ 0:42:20Um, do you believe that the State Department as required by law should fulfill its mandate um that we've just talked about in any special way or in no way at all or to allow someone else to be able to do that?
▶ 0:42:36Um, I think in terms of uh recruiting the right people into the foreign service, what we've done is um really emphasize people's qualifications as uh Congressman Zinci highlighted um leadership capability, management expertise, um regional knowledge and other things that uh would make them successful.
▶ 0:42:59And assuming that hiring is based on merit as already required by law, do you believe that a diverse and inclusive workforce is beneficial or harmful to carrying out American foreign I think within the state department, we have a wide range of people in the workforce from different backgrounds um who represent different parts of the country and have different regional expertise and we've been able to use all of their qualifications um to
▶ 0:43:28and I assume it's been beneficial.
▶ 0:43:31Everyone's expertise has been beneficial and um helping advance foreign policy.
▶ 0:43:37Okay, my time is up. Thank you. I I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:43:40Thank you, Mr. Mfume. I now recognize for a second round of questioning the gentleman from Montana, Mr. Zinci, for five minutes.
▶ 0:43:48And first of all, thank you for serving. It's not easy, but thank you for stepping up and I I appreciate your service. So, on recruiting, um, is there an active engagement for military for former military folks that that uh because they obviously some of them have a lot of experience. I I've dealt with the foreign service a lot.
▶ 0:44:09Uh sometimes it's helpful to have a background an institutional background of the of the military because the statement or department of of war and department of state work together a lot. So is there a program actively recruiting uh young officers that that may want to have a change of career say and they're and they do whatever their commitment is out of the academy they're they're young in the 26 27 year range.
▶ 0:44:36Is there an active program to go out and try to find these these guys?
▶ 0:44:41Yes, sir. We have um several people who are dedicated to recruiting veterans. We also have the veterans fellowship to uh bring them into the pipeline.
▶ 0:44:50Any any any programs outreaching and former congressman like 64 from Montana? Nothing like that.
▶ 0:44:56You're absolutely welcome, sir.
▶ 0:44:58And and lastly, if you could if you could look at your because you have a lot of things going on. what is your top priority uh and what and what you you're currently focused on and and what's your what's your biggest challenge? Top priority and and your in and your biggest challenge.
▶ 0:45:18Sure. I think um my top priority would be um encouraging high performers uh to be rewarded through promotion and other uh what we've been looking at uh doing is as we've said before is putting the right people in the right place to achieve the right mission.
▶ 0:45:37We have a lot of critical positions all over the world and what we'd like to do is just ensure that through these merit-based um evaluations and other uh metrics that we're identifying them and moving them into positions that will have the biggest impact and push forward the administration's policies
▶ 0:45:57and your challenges. I don't think
▶ 0:46:03bureaucracy in general, slow pace of
▶ 0:46:07Yeah. Yeah. I think we're we're working through everything. There's no challenge that's too big to overcome to make sure that we are able to achieve our mission.
▶ 0:46:14And on foreign languages, h how important is foreign languages? uh because there's, you know, a lot of a lot of young college students are looking at a career in in in the foreign service and they what courses best prep me uh for that job? How important are foreign languages uh to the FSO?
▶ 0:46:36Um foreign languages are an incredibly beneficial asset, but it's not the only thing we look for. We have a really robust training facility that has trained thousands of foreign service officers on languages and other skills that they need depending on where they're posted. Um so although it is always great to have if you're coming in, it's not something that would um that should uh discourage you from applying if you don't have it because we have the tools to train everyone.
▶ 0:47:06And as my my my my colleague has also mentioned, I would imagine on foreign soil sometimes uh you need a background that that is consistent with that program. If you if you have a background in in Eastern European background, you grew up in that background might be helpful. Is that also part of your consideration to make sure we have a diversity of backgrounds appropriate uh to their position?
▶ 0:47:32Yes, absolutely. Um, it's definitely one thing that we consider, but similarly, we offer different regional training depending on where an officer is going to make sure that they understand the culture, the political environment, and other factors as they're going out to an
▶ 0:47:48I appreciate that. I yield back.
▶ 0:47:50Thank you, Mr. Zinci. I now recognize Mr. Latimer for five minutes.
▶ 0:47:55Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. Thank you again, Mr. McKim. Um, in uh in 2025, the State Department cancelled long-standing and congressionally mandated internships, the student internship program and the foreign service internship program. Um, at that time it was identified that the department is reviewing the internship program. We've lost a year of it.
▶ 0:48:19What specific review is involved with the program and what specific metrics has has the department used to evaluate the program and what is its uh uh long-term status?
▶ 0:48:32Um we have uh restarted the internship program this summer with both domestic and international interns um who are currently uh being processed for onboarding. Uh we have been um looking forward to continuing the internship program. We also have uh pathway interns that are um throughout the department.
▶ 0:48:56We'd be very interested in seeing the specifics about the reinstitution of the program so that we'd be aware of it. Um one more question. Uh thank you Mr. Chairman for the opportunity the second time through. Um, back in December, the State Department announced a recall of 30 career ambassadors all across the globe, particularly in Africa. What's the status of those slots? Uh, have they been replaced? Are they being replaced over what time frame? Uh, and what what can you tell us about that situation?
▶ 0:49:27Uh we have restarted the chief of mission process seeking career candidates uh for chief of mission positions and that's for both foreign and civil service candidates that are the process is currently underway. Um and we are hoping to put the the right people into those positions um upon further review of their qualifications. And in the interim period of time, who has responsibility for these slots?
▶ 0:49:56Um, we have some incredibly qualified senior foreign service officers who are in leadership positions and we have our utmost confidence in those individuals in those places.
▶ 0:50:09And the fact that there was a particularly high number of changes in Africa, does that make a statement at all about policy about how the administration views that uh portion of the globe? Um, you know, the the process for selecting the president's appointed chiefs of mission is a White House process and so I would defer to them.
▶ 0:50:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:50:35Thank you. And I recognize myself for five minutes. uh State Department data indicates that within the foreign service, the percentage of foreign service officers who successfully completed uh competed for promotion in 2025 ranged from 54.8% uh for those seeking promotion from FSO4 to FSO3 to 11.6% for those seeking promotion from FSO2 to FSO1.
▶ 0:51:03In your view, does this data reflect a competitive promotion process? I believe so. Yes, sir.
▶ 0:51:12Typically, how many times will foreign service officers compete for promotion in a particular salary class before securing promotion?
▶ 0:51:23Um, I I don't know the average number. I would, if I had to guess, I would say maybe three or four times.
▶ 0:51:29Okay. And how many failed to secure promotion altogether and are retired from service due to time in class I I don't know that specific sir, but we
▶ 0:51:40Okay, if you can get us that information. Um, how does the Bureau of Human Resources ensure that employee evaluation reports, EERS, are truly merit-based and not influenced by internal bias or favoritism.
▶ 0:51:55Um, with the new employee valuation system that we've introduced, we have a lot of metrics and datadriven information. Supervisors are also held accountable to the way that they are reviewing and rating their employees so that if there is any kind of inflation in terms of their metrics, we're also able to talk to them about uh the way that they're assessing candidates and ensure a normal distribution throughout the workforce.
▶ 0:52:22And what specific safeguards which you just started to mention exist to prevent inflation or uh homogeneization of employee evaluation reports? Um given that we've now translated the system into a metricbased system, we're able to assess the numbers and that they're um rating their employees and we're able to look at the feedback that they're providing and then have conversations with them if it's not uh within the normal distribution to ensure
▶ 0:52:52that uh we're also holding the managers accountable for performance.
▶ 0:52:58Okay. And can you elaborate a little bit more on this new system that you have put in place?
▶ 0:53:04The employee the ER system we changed the form uh for the the main uh evaluation. We've also introduced a performance improvement plan for foreign service officers um in order to identify areas where they may not be meeting the needs of the service and give the supervisors an opportunity to provide feedback and help them improve over a 30-day span.
▶ 0:53:30um and and combined with counseling sessions that are mandated throughout the rating cycle um in order to help facilitate high performers in in the
▶ 0:53:44Okay. Um well, uh Mr. Mfume, are you do you have any more questions on your end?
▶ 0:53:51Uh yeah, I do. I do. Mr.
▶ 0:53:53I will yield the balance of my time and I will recognize uh Mr. Mfume for five minutes. Thank you again uh very very much. Um Miss McKim, I'm going to say as my colleague on the other side said earlier, thank you for your service. Just coming here and sitting down three months after you got in this position takes a whole lot of will and a lot of gut, but also a lot of hutzbah because I get the sense that you're not trying to play games with us.
▶ 0:54:20But I also get the sense that uh you can't go too far because of guard rails that are already in place. So, let me just do one quick thing here. I'm concerned about retention. I mean, and I know you must be coming into this position. And this hearing has talked about how valuable our foreign service personnel are. And they are extremely valuable.
▶ 0:54:43So when I look at our current workforce, it concerns me that the American Foreign Service Association conducted their own survey of State Department employee morale uh last year and that among 2,100 survey respondents, said that changes to the workforce have affected their ability to advance our diplomatic make priorities.
▶ 0:55:14If you could comment on that for just a moment, that's a huge number and those priorities are priorities because they're just that they're the things that mean the most to us.
▶ 0:55:25Um, from what I've seen, the reforms that we've impacted and the increase u focus that we've put on accountability and merit has um been received really well by the workforce. People are really excited about it. A lot of the changes in the ER system in particular were brought about by focus groups. Um suggestions made by career employees that were looking for a more transparent, streamlined system so that they're able to focus on the
▶ 0:55:55Okay. Um 86% is a lot and the percentages you just offered up are important, but where do you get those percentages from? the uh what percentage are you referring
▶ 0:56:14You just said that an overwhelming percentage of employees seem to be essentially my words doing just well and are happy with the way things are going.
▶ 0:56:25That is we hear feedback from the workforce. One of the the benefits of the Bureau of Human Resources is we're in touch with the workforce both foreign and civil service across the
▶ 0:56:35Are you aware of the survey?
▶ 0:56:37I am aware of the survey.
▶ 0:56:38Okay. Another part of that survey said that 98% of the 2,100 who were surveyed, 98% reported poor morale. Were you aware of the survey?
▶ 0:56:54I am aware of the survey. Yes. And does it trouble you that almost 100% are reporting poor morale?
▶ 0:57:02I from what I've seen from the workforce, the the morale is not poor.
▶ 0:57:07Okay. And another percentage from that same uh poll conducted by the American Foreign Service Association, 33% one-third of that 2,100 respondents said that they are considering leaving foreign service altogether. your thoughts about that and they may not have expressed that to you but I'm saying this is how the survey went and these are the findings
▶ 0:57:34and my experience with the workforce has uh been generally very positive and people are very excited about the secretary's leadership and moving the mission forward
▶ 0:57:44how many have left the foreign service in the last year do you know that I I think we started January 2025 about roughly 80,000 and we're currently close to 74,000.
▶ 0:58:03Okay. So 16,000 have left
▶ 0:58:066,000 excuse me 6,000 have left in 12 Okay. um what would be helpful for me and again I appreciate your willingness to be here and to be as straightforward as you can but and I recognize the constraints that we don't have to talk about right now but I would appreciate if you could communicate back to the chair and the ranking member uh so that through them I could see uh where things are right now perhaps by June 30th so that'll give us an
▶ 0:58:3618-month window to look at in terms of the number of people the 80,000 or so that you that were there when you got there and where things are on June 30th.
▶ 0:58:47And if you can't or choose not to, you can directly communicate that to my
▶ 0:58:53Yes, sir.
▶ 0:58:53Okay. Thank you very much for being here. You can take your flack jacket off. It's all over. [laughter]
▶ 0:59:01Mr. Mfume, you spoke too soon.
▶ 0:59:05Mr. Sherman is on his way back. Ah, and so I will uh give him the opportunity to get back. But in the time that we are waiting, uh, Miss McKe, is there anything else you would like to add uh to your testimony based on the questions that have been asked today or any thoughts that you would like to share with us?
▶ 0:59:28Um, no, just that in my time in this pos position, I've seen that like I said, the department is full of a lot of talent and a lot of experience. And um, what we've been trying to do is just make sure that we are putting all these people in the right place in order to move the mission forward. We look forward to continue to do that.
▶ 0:59:49Appreciate that. We will give the uh ranking member a few moments to get back and then we will uh wrap up with his
▶ 1:00:06He's the gruff one
▶ 1:00:09as you saw.
▶ 1:01:17I'll ask you some questions and uh uh do you know how many schools the uh the state department recruits at?
▶ 1:01:26I don't know.
▶ 1:01:28Can I count on you to provide a list of the schools you recruit at and tell me how many of those are MBAs uh RNBA schools?
▶ 1:01:40We can look into that, sir.
▶ 1:01:41Okay. Okay. Well, I count on you. Can I count on you for an answer? Because often witnesses come here and they say they're going to get back to me with the information and they don't. Can I count on you to get me the information?
▶ 1:01:51Yes, sir. To the to the best of our ability that we have that.
▶ 1:01:55Likewise, I'm going to ask you how many employees of the State Department have graduate degrees and how many of those graduate degrees are in business uh there. So, can I count on you for that information as well to the best of your
▶ 1:02:10Yes, sir. that data um is self-reported. Uh we did look into it yesterday after our our
▶ 1:02:16I look forward to getting the information for the record. Um why this apartheid system where you've got your civil service and your foreign service. I realize the foreign service are people who have agreed to be posted abroad. Uh but you have certain jobs preferentially allocated. Um Why uh why this uh this separate system?
▶ 1:02:47I believe this administration has really, as we've said, focused on merit and accountability regardless of
▶ 1:02:53I know that's a good slogan, but couldn't that slogan be further advanced if you didn't have separate roles for civil service and foreign service?
▶ 1:03:02Is that something you've even looked at?
▶ 1:03:04Yes, sir. I mean, we opened our chief of mission process recently. It's open to both civil and foreign service employees at the
▶ 1:03:11So those are foreign positions.
▶ 1:03:13Yes, sir.
▶ 1:03:15Those who sign up for civil service are primarily interested in positions here in the United States. Uh do you continue to have most of the best positions uh here in the United States uh reserved for the foreign service?
▶ 1:03:31Not to my knowledge. No. I think we have great opportunities for both civil and foreign service to
▶ 1:03:36but they are separate. Certain jobs are can only be filled by a foreign service officer, not by a civil servant.
▶ 1:03:42Some positions are are been historically foreign service or coded to foreign
▶ 1:03:47Are you looking at whether they should be or not?
▶ 1:03:49Yeah, we have the ability.
▶ 1:03:51You think you'd want the best person in the job regardless? Uh,
▶ 1:03:54yes, sir.
▶ 1:03:55Okay. Um, so who's going to staff our foreign aid programs now that USID has been Um we have uh several employees throughout the department that are focused on foreign assistance.
▶ 1:04:14We now have the under secretariat for uh foreign assistance which is Why is it that we have told certain employees you are not allowed to work on the region of the world your ancestors come These are people that have gone through a uh security clearance.
▶ 1:04:40These are people who in many cases are native speakers of languages that we try to teach you. It's I've tried to learn a foreign language. You never really why don't we uh why do we have prohibitions on people of certain ethnic backgrounds working on certain certain Uh we previously had an assignment uh process. However, in 2023 we stopped issuing new assignment restrictions. So
▶ 1:05:12you stop you mean so certain people got a letter before that that saying you will never work on East Asia because your ancestors come from East Asia and that letter is still binding but you haven't issued any new letters.
▶ 1:05:26It was a condition for granting a security clearance. Uh so I can't speak to the diplomatic security process there. However,
▶ 1:05:33what portion of the State Department uh employees have this restriction that uh due to your ethnic background, you're not allowed to work on certain issues.
▶ 1:05:44Um I we're no longer issuing these
▶ 1:05:47but they but you haven't canceled the ones that were issued by your predecessors. There is an appeal process for those who
▶ 1:05:52but only well this administration canled everything Biden did that they didn't think was great. Why aren't you cancelling this?
▶ 1:06:02We could look further into it.
▶ 1:06:05Happy to take that back. and again, why when you'd had to reduce your uh your headcount or chose to, did you not go through each person's file and see who was the best employee, but instead just cancel certain um uh those who happen to be in certain jobs. And uh I don't know whether the chair wants to get an oral answer to that or a written answer.
▶ 1:06:38Um the the reduction in force was a tailored effort to reduce redundant programs and um uh make the department more effective. So the way that it was um put into motion across the department was based off of uh the functions, the positions and not
▶ 1:06:59rather than the quality of the people that were leaving. Okay,
▶ 1:07:03the gentleman's time has expired. I thank Miss McKe for the valuable testimony and the members for their questions. The members of the committee may have some additional questions for Miss McKe and we will ask that you respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rules, all members have may have five days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.