▶ 0:07:42We're going to call the subcommittee on national security, Department of State, and related programs to order. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the NSRP subcommittee hearing on the National Endowment for Democracy. Our witness today is Damon Wilson, president and CEO of NED. Thank you, Mr. Wilson for agreeing to testify here today. It should be no surprise to anyone why the subcommittee's first hearing of the year is to discuss oversight of the National Endowment for Democracy.
▶ 0:08:10At this moment in our country's history under the tremendous leadership of President Trump, our foreign policy has been awakened and strengthened in an unprecedented manner. And the work of NET is critical. It's a critical tool advancing the foreign policy priorities of the administration, including by defending international religious freedom in places like Nigeria, Nicaragua, and Communist China, and supporting those struggling for freedom in places like Iran and North Korea and Cuba, just to name a
▶ 0:08:40few. But just as important as as the president is what's going to happen in the future, what may happen in the future, foreign policy changes from one administration to the next. We know that happens. Yet the work of Ned remains consistent. As many of you know, uh I'm a strong proponent of democracy and of human rights and of uh of those things as a fundamental part of our foreign policy and our national security.
▶ 0:09:11Towards that goal, the NUD and accountable democracy programs in general are essential to countering adversaries, advancing American national security interest, and standing with those struggling for freedom regardless of who is in the White House. Now, NE was President Reagan's Ronald Reagan's idea and was founded through an act of Congress in the 1980s to counter the then evil empire of the Soviet Union.
▶ 0:09:39From its inception, it has enjoyed strong bipartisan support due to its uncontroversial mission of promoting freedom. Freedom often within our most dangerous adversaries. Now, obviously, it worked pretty well, right? As most of Europe, of Eastern Europe is made up of free independent countries that are among some of our closest strongest allies.
▶ 0:10:04So while the Soviet Union no longer exists, threats to freedom and our security remain and frankly have evolved significantly since then. NED has adopted to to be responsive to those emerging trends and threats. They work in some of the most dangerous and adversarial nations like Iran, like China.
▶ 0:10:30They've also been laying the groundwork for peace and stability stability in places like the south caucuses which provides an opening uh for initiatives like the Trump route for international peace and prosperity connecting Armenia and Azar Azar Azar Bjan man
▶ 0:10:51easy for me to say
▶ 0:10:53that's right so yes let's be clear Ned has made mistakes in the past but to Ned's cut it. They are extremely responsive and quick to recognize and rectify those mistakes. For example, when they found a problematic issue with a grantee, they resolved it in a matter of days. They cancelled it outright outright and got the money back.
▶ 0:11:21Um, I wish that every other federally funded organization was that swift and that responsive to Congress and to when they make mistakes. So, part of that responsiveness is the close engagement between NED and the United States Congress.
▶ 0:11:38We continue that today with this oversight hearing to ask the tough questions and make sure make sure that NED is carrying out its work which is so critical to furthering US national security interests. Mr. Wilson, again, thanks for being here. I look forward to discussing these critical issues with you further. Uh let me now turn to my Florida colleague and friend, the ranking member for her opening statement. You're recognized.
▶ 0:12:05Thank you. Well, I I want to start by first of all, good to be with you and I was a little late because I was picking up an award from my chairman which I'm going to present to you right now
▶ 0:12:17from Malaria No More. We're fighting malaria together here.
▶ 0:12:20All right. Thank you.
▶ 0:12:21Enjoy it.
▶ 0:12:22Thank you. Thank you so much.
▶ 0:12:24That's cool.
▶ 0:12:27And I'm glad I learned
▶ 0:12:29I'm not going to take any of your time for that.
▶ 0:12:31No. Well, I learned about the the Trump route from you today. Okay. So, uh thank you. We actually this is a very I mostly bipartisan committee and we're very collegiate and it's it's a pleasure. Um and thank you for being here. Uh Mr. Wilson. So, uh th this hearing is really I know I know we're going to talk about your organization, but it's more than that.
▶ 0:12:59It's whether the United States will continue to lead with strength, transparency, and principle in supporting democratic institutions and defenders around the world. Supporting the National Endowment for Democracy is one of the ways we carry out this and thank you for your leadership. The NID was created by Congress, as my colleague has said, in 1983 during the Cold War at a time when Congress made a deliberate choice.
▶ 0:13:28If the United States is going to support democratic movements abroad, we should do it openly, transparently, and through civilian not covertly. And the NE was designed to strengthen the institutions that now allow societies to conflict, to resolve conflict peacefully, free and fair elections, independent media, accountable governments, rule of law, labor rights, and private enterprise.
▶ 0:13:57It is sometimes we say it's wishful thinking, right? Uh it operates as an independent congressionally funded nonprofit receiving annual appropriations through this sub subcommittee but intentionally separate from the state department and that independence gives it credibility abroad and reinforces congressional oversight at home and it does it through through four core institutes and the NED supports civil society in more than 90 countries. I hope that's still true.
▶ 0:14:28The work is not abstract. It supports election observers who deter fraud, journalists who expose corrupt corruption, and labor leaders who defend workers rights. And women, I'm going to stress this, women who run for office in places where their participation was once unthinkable. And in places like Ukraine where organizations that document war crimes, so maybe one day we can have And these efforts help prevent fragile societies from descending into violence.
▶ 0:14:59And uh supporters of NED, and as I said, it's bipartisan, have understood a simple truth. Strong democratic institutions reduce instability. They reduce extremism. They reduce the likelihood that American troops will be called upon later. And I will tell you that and I've I've said this so many times at this meeting as a mo mother of a United States Marine war veteran.
▶ 0:15:22Uh I have I I take this lesson very very The conflicts that cost American lives and taxpayer dollars often emerge when democracy is weak or absent and supporting democratic in institutions is not just a charity. It is a prevention. It's for our own national security and it's coste effective.
▶ 0:15:44The resources we devote to de democracy support are a fraction of what we spend when instability turns into war, mass displacement or humanitarian crisis. Now we know we we've heard the critics who argue the democracy promotion interferes in sovereign affairs or advances US geopolitical interest.
▶ 0:16:05But Ned's work which is independent, it's transparent, it's congressionally authorized and rooted in universal principles, accountable government, rule of law and the right of people to shape their own future. And uh that is something that we are clear about. So from Thran to Moscow to Beijing to Caracus, authoritarian regimes are tightening their grip. They're jailing journalists.
▶ 0:16:31They're silencing opposition voices and they're hollowing out civil society and actively working to undermine the norms worldwide. And so we cannot step back uh retreat doesn't create stability. And uh that's why efforts I this disappointments efforts to scale back election monitoring uh weaken the state department's democracy, human rights, and labor bureau. Uh I I Rose, I hope you're going to talk about that.
▶ 0:17:00She doesn't know. Okay. Um anyway, Mr. Chair, I I ask unanimous consent to enter this into the rec fact sheet from NEB's core institutes, the National uh Democratic just the core institutes and
▶ 0:17:17without objection that
▶ 0:17:18without objection
▶ 0:17:19and uh last one thing I know you want me to wrap up here. I want to address the constitutional dimension which is we appropriate the funds for NED because we have determined that the work advances American interests the power of the p rest rests with Congress and uh when congressionally appropriated funds are delayed or withheld without clear legal basis it raises serious concerns. I'd like so I'd really be interested your take on that.
▶ 0:17:47It's uh Mr. Mr. Wilson, I look forward to hearing you. And again, everybody here who's here today supporting democracy, I thank you very much. And uh
▶ 0:17:58I yield back.
▶ 0:17:59Thank you. Thank you. It's now my pleasure to uh recognize the ranking member of the full committee of appropriations, Mr. Duro.
▶ 0:18:07Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, ranking member. Uh I want to start by you saw the the presentation of the award. Uh but I want to express my appreciation for the bipartisan work uh that chairman Diaz Balard and ranking member Frankle have. Um the the the relationship has been proved to accomplish much on this subcommittee especially as it relates to the National Endowment for Democracy Northern NED.
▶ 0:18:35Uh, I'm very proud they were able to come together earlier this year on a funding bill that rejects the cuts to the NED, sending a strong signal to this White House and to the world that the United States Congress remains committed. We are committed to supporting democracy around the globe. I thank you, Mr. Wilson, for answering the questions before this subcommittee today. I thank you for the work that you do as president and CEO of the endowment.
▶ 0:19:02And if you indulge me for a second, I see in the audience a young man who I worked with for years when I first came to the Congress, and that's Jerry Hartz, who's with NDI, and we conspired and did many things together, including helping to bring about the end of the of the war uh in in Nicaragua. So, hats off, Jerry.
▶ 0:19:24Um, all around the world, the National Endowment for Democracy provides indispensable support for advocates of the essential freedoms that we cherish here at home. Freedom of speech, the press, religion, assembly, the freedom to choose our leaders, chase our dreams without the fear of oppression.
▶ 0:19:41In 2024 alone, the NED made over 1,900 grants across 91 countries, providing over 286 million in aid to organizations that work to advance democracy from the bottom up and oftentimes risking their lives to do so. They are in dangerous areas.
▶ 0:20:04Sometimes we lose sight of that in the United States of how dangerous the situations are that people that we send there are are are and and what their environment is is all about because we believe that we have a safe environment here in which to conduct our democracy and we need to keep it so groups backed by the net have been instrumental in documenting the Chinese Communist Party's persecution of religious minorities reporting on mass internment camps abuse of
▶ 0:20:34Muslim women for wearing hijabs and the imprisonment of Christian leaders. In Sudan, groups that received support from the Ned bore witness to the atrocities committed during the ongoing civil war and were key to the US government's determination last year that the rapid support forces are committing genocide.
▶ 0:20:54And in Russia, where Putin's regime has imprisoned countless dissident for no crime other for their beliefs, the Ned was able to sustain legal support and advocacy for over 1,500 political prisoners. These are brave men and women. They stand up for their own freedom and for that of their country, carry forward the hope that is the foundation of any democracy.
▶ 0:21:18Unfortunately, the world is experiencing a resurgence of autocracy and making support for freedom and democracy around the globe more important than ever. And as the world's wealthiest and most powerful democracy, we have an obligation to set an example here at home. We must model the values and practices that we push for internationally.
▶ 0:21:44free and fair elections, due process and the rule of law, essential and viable rights that protect our most essential freedoms. Sadly, this administration has set the wrong example and has modeled behavior we would historically have condemned had it occurred in another country. The president last week attacked in personal terms several Supreme Court justices for blocking his illegal taxes on American consumers, preventing him from raising costs on working families.
▶ 0:22:13even more than he already has. Since President Trump took office, this administration has routinely ignored court orders, prompting judges across the country to threaten government lawyers with contempt for their abject failure to comply with the law. And just this week, President Trump revived his big lie that the 2020 election was stolen when it was not. This lie led to the greatest assault on American democracy since the Civil War, the insurrection of January 6th.
▶ 0:22:44I believe that America is exceptional, that we are the greatest nation on work on on earth and we can achieve anything anything that we set our minds to if we put our differences aside and pursue it together. In a much narrower sense, the work of this subcommittee is evidence of that, that we can bridge our differences for the common good. But this exceptionalism comes with responsibility.
▶ 0:23:10Through our actions, we can either lend credibility to the corruption and oppression of dictatorships or the abundance and freedom of democracy. It is my hope that through the good work of independent organizations like the NED, the United States may be able to reclaim some of the credibility this administration has squandered overseas. Thank you, and I yield back.
▶ 0:23:37Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Your uh full written statement will be placed on the records. Obviously, feel free to summarize your testimony. You're now recognized, sir. Chairman Diaz Balard, Ranking Member Franco, Ranking Member Delaro, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:23:55On behalf of our bipartisan board, our vice chairman and chair who are with us, our staff, our remarkable staff, the core institutes, and thousands of Democratic partners, we thank Congress for its bipartisan support and leadership and advancing freedom as a national security priority for our nation. I also want to thank the chair, both ranking members, and all of the committee for their strong support during the last appropriation process. We do not take that support for granted, and that's why we welcome today's hearing.
▶ 0:24:26So, more than four decades ago, President Ronald Reagan called for investing in fostering the infrastructure of democracy, the institutions, civic organizations, and free media that allow societies to govern themselves. In 1983, Congress answered that call with the bipartisan NET Act, authorizing a public private partnership to advance America's interests by supporting democracy abroad.
▶ 0:24:50And we were joined in that effort by the core institutes, the International Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute, Center for International Private Enterprise, and the Solidarity Center. Today, our mandate is urgent. Authoritarian regimes are coordinated, technologically capable, capable, and aggressive in stifling freedom at home and exporting repression across borders. We see this in Russia's unjust war against Ukraine.
▶ 0:25:17As today marks the fourth year of the full-scale invasion, backed by Chinese technology, Iranian drones, and North Korean and Cuban combatants, Vladimir Putin aims to extinguish the appeal of liberty at home by ensuring that it does not flourish in Ukraine. Ned's work helps Ukrainians hold the line against Kremlin Ned counters America's rivals by helping partners build effective democracies and protect fundamental freedoms.
▶ 0:25:45Despite intensifying repression, citizens are standing up for their rights from Iran and Venezuela to Cuba and across Africa. In freer societies, there are strategic opportunities to strengthen democratic institutions and free enterprise. As we see in Malddova, Armenia, in Kenya, and Bolivia, young people are insisting on better's futures, turning to technology to assert their voice and hold governments accountable. And all of this underscores a central truth.
▶ 0:26:14The demand for freedom is universal and persistent. But as President Reagan said, it requires sustained backing. Supporting those who seek freedom is a strategic investment in US national and economic security. Where democratic institutions and free markets are weak, conflict, drug and human trafficking, terrorism, refugee flows, and coercive economic practices take root. Where citizens have a say in their future, societies are more stable partners for the United States.
▶ 0:26:45NE advances this mission by stewarding taxpayer resources with discipline. 84 cents of every dollar goes directly to the front lines, making NED one of the most cost-effective national security investments. Last year, we delivered $271 million for more than 1500 projects in 90 countries. And 86% of our grants to grassroot organizations are under $150,000. We know exactly where that money goes.
▶ 0:27:13Our credibility rests on a commitment to transparency, accountability, and We submit spending plans and annual reports and consult with Congress and the administration. We provide grant and financial reporting to the State Department and respond promptly to oversight requests. NET is also subject to independent audits, GAO and state inspector general oversight and FOYA. We publicly disclose grants while protecting partners.
▶ 0:27:44Our programmatic priorities advance freedom in areas that are central to US interests. Her work provides a counterweight to China's authoritarian reach. Ned supported researchers exposed more than a 100 CCP police stations across 53 countries working to silence dissident. Our partners document CCP re-education camps, weaguer forced labor, and boarding schools seeking to erase Tibetan culture and faith. Ned partners defend freedom of speech and belief.
▶ 0:28:14In Nigeria, partners document attacks on faith communities and pursue justice through the courts. In North Korea, our partners pierce authoritarian In countries that are emerging from conflict or authoritarian rules, such as Bangladesh or Syria, we help translate political openings into durable Our work advances economic security by bolstering transparency and rule of law, reducing corruption, and promoting fair competition
▶ 0:28:45that benefits American workers and businesses. In Bolivia, Ned partners help prevent the world's largest lithium deposits from falling under Moscow's and Beijing's control. As the United States approaches its 250th anniversary, we're reminded that our nation was founded on a universal idea that liberty belongs to all. Congress created NED to advance that idea through partnership with those seeking freedom in their own societies.
▶ 0:29:14At a moment of geopolitical competition, supporting democracy and freedom is not only consistent with our values, it strengthens America's security, prosperity, and global leadership. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:29:27Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman,
▶ 0:29:29I will.
▶ 0:29:31Sure. Thank you. I will call on members as usual, folks. Uh based on seniority to those uh that were present when we gave uh the hearing alternating between each side. Each member will have five minutes for questions and answer. Uh but uh I anticipate that we should have two rounds. Uh which is which is great. So we'll start the clock with me as well. you mentioned Nigeria in your opening statement.
▶ 0:29:56Yesterday I went to the White House to deliver the appropriations committee report requested by the president uh on the persecution of Christians in in Nigeria. Some of us traveled there and Ned and the courts have been on this issue for quite some time and you you actually mentioned Nigeria in your opening statement. Will you please share more about Ned's work in Nigeria? what what what what actually are is happening there with with you all
▶ 0:30:23thank you Mr. chairman. Um Nigeria is Ned's largest program in Africa and I think that reflects its strategic significance to freedom as well across the continent as well as to US interests. Um in fact, my first trip as Ned President to Africa was to Nigeria for that reason. So uh as you know very well, the administration recently designated Nigeria as a country of particular concern.
▶ 0:30:46Um Ned has been supporting this work by bringing together Nigerian partners uh for example at the international religious freedom summits in in Nairobi as well as here in Washington to help provide uh a sense of of ground truth about what's happening connecting the stakeholders on the grounds with the advocates and we brought a community of our organizations together in February to talk about these issues here in Washington.
▶ 0:31:10Um, if you think about how uh uh in Nigeria, our partners have been able to argue that religious freedom challenges are tied to the governance failures that you probably saw on your your visit as well. Failures to provide security, uphold rule of law, respect broader rights, and by ensuring the Nigerian government's more accountable to the Nigerian people, how to help our partners advance the protection of religious freedom.
▶ 0:31:35So across the across the country um we're investing about $5 million six our core institutes are there 16 projects uh a real target to the middle belt where there are are uh where the particular violence against religious communities is taking place in a way that enables citizens to defend their rights especially freedom of expression and belief but also to strengthen their participation in politics and governance to help build I think a more competitive and democratic electoral system where
▶ 0:32:05we've seen some real challenges as Nigeria has gone through its elections. Um, and so in the aggregate, this work uh comes at the issues of religious freedom directly by supporting issues of of security and governance failures in the in the country as well.
▶ 0:32:20So let let me ask you this um and and this really kind of applies almost How do you protect local partners and those individuals that are doing some frankly delicate work or dangerous work in delicate places from retaliation while still maintaining transparency? How do you do that? How can you do that? And and what lessons have you learned from from past program failures because uh you know on or or even security
▶ 0:32:51Mr. Chairman, that's a extremely important question for the way the endowment operates for us. uh we think of the transparency, accountability, nonpartisanship. These are foundational principles for the endowment. Um but they're also really embedded practices. At the same time, we marry that with a a duty of care to ensure that those partners that are working on behalf of their fundamental freedoms are protected. And as you can imagine, this work is particularly challenging in a place like Cuba and China or Russia.
▶ 0:33:21Um, this work is the kind of work that can end up getting folks not just harassed, intimidated, but imprisoned and in some cases face consequences of of death. I think one of the challenges we have had in this new environment is that even in places that were once considered open, we've seen challenges arise for partners. Uh, Tunisia after the Arab Spring, a very open society and yet we've seen a crack crackdown on partners that really were operating completely transparently publicly uh, with Ned's support. We've seen the same play out in Georgia.
▶ 0:33:51I was faced with a challenge when I came to the endowment that all of our partners in Ukraine opened operated very openly. Everything was public and yet on the eve of the invasion uh we were briefed by officials that our NED partners were on quote kill and capture lists that the Russians maintained and in the event of an occupation of Ukraine that our partners would be targeted. We saw that in the opening days of the war.
▶ 0:34:15A partner in Heron who had left fled his apartment as Russian forces entered that southern city in Ukraine and he left cameras in his apartment and days later it filmed uh Baklavad covered face mask covered Russian forces busting down the doors to their apartment uh coming to seek to hold them accountable. So what we tried to do, Mr. Chairman, is lean in on the transparency that we are committed to do with Congress and the administration.
▶ 0:34:42We do that in real practice by submitting detailed annual spending plans. How are we going to spend the funds that are appropriated by providing an annual report to the executive branch and Congress then explains where those funds went, the impact of those funds, provides a full grant listings. We provide monthly obligations of our grant payments to the state department as well as quarterly financial reports. And we consult regularly both with the State Department and with Congress on our programs, on our priorities.
▶ 0:35:11And on top of that, I think we welcome oversight hearings. We are responsive when members have questions or administration officials. Um, we've provided over 22,000 pages and documents to the latest request of information from the state department, for example. We also have built into the statute our responsiveness to the state inspector general to freedom of information act uh to GAO review of the work that we undertake and we submit independent audits that we go through to the state department for review as well. Let me let me cut you off there.
▶ 0:35:42By the way, impressive answer all these measures that you've been taking, but I want to keep myself to as much as much as possible at the time to to the ranking member. Of course, you recognize
▶ 0:35:51Thank you very much.
▶ 0:35:53I want to uh talk to you about the women of the world. Uh women are often the key to ensuring longlasting and resilient democracies. And countries where women doing well tend to be countries with fair elections, vibrant civil societies, and independent and accountable institutions. Well, I guess I'll make it. You agree? I guess you'll shake your head. Yes. All right. That's not the question, though.
▶ 0:36:19Yes, madam chair.
▶ 0:36:21Thank you, member. So what one one of the many casualties of the foreign assistance review by the Trump programs centered on the unique role of women in society, economy or political life were terminated across USID, the state's DRL bureau and the office of global women's issues.
▶ 0:36:43Um so what I would like to for you to do first is if you could comment on how uh empowering women uh is connected to democracy. Tell us about maybe some of the programs you are involved in in that regard and what concern should we have if you have an opinion in terms of the United States terminating some of the programs?
▶ 0:37:08Thank you for that question. Um, I'd say the the idea the concept of of NED support for women is really political participation. It's part of our broader mission to ensure um that strengthened democratic institutions reflect their people, ensure equal access to civic life and public life for all citizens. And so our work focuses on expanding opportunities for women that involve and get get involved in public affairs and public life, civil society, media and governance.
▶ 0:37:35You may have participated in programs, leadership programs that IRI and NDI often run with women But we do this in a way that is reflective of how the endowment operates refle appropriate for local context. What is appropriate in that culture, the demand that comes from those societies. So if you think about it, this leads to work where our partners are helping criminalizing violence against uh women in societies, working for their inclusion and and public uh uh governance and oversight.
▶ 0:38:05Um CYP and Solidarity are involved in women's business associations and the the economic opportunities for them as well. Um there's a a way to think about this in a country like Morocco that had a a a relatively new constitution yet a family code that was really outdated.
▶ 0:38:22We have a partner there, Manasset, that really worked with a coalition of of civil society groups with the government to update the family code, getting 19 reforms passed through a pretty laborious uh process that had a fundamental impact on the lived experience of women in society consistent with the constitution by giving them rights to inheritance, to custody, to guardianship, and freedom of movement. That's the type of partnership, the type of work that the endowment helps support.
▶ 0:38:50Okay. Thank you. Um, do you do any I'm just curious. You do any work to try to stop genital mutilation in the world?
▶ 0:39:03I don't know specifically the answer to that. So, I can come back to you on the details, but we have strong programs across Africa that involve women's leadership rights and and participation. So, I'll come back to you with a specific answer on that. and and what is just from your observation what are the what are the major risks that that the women that you're working with are
▶ 0:39:24So in many places we see that uh uh uh part of this has been having a a seat at the table whether in political parties and and public parliaments having a voice in shaping policies that impact them. In other cases, we've seen uh uh uh there are real challenges to um to security uh to uh personal well-being.
▶ 0:39:46We've seen, for example, in China a a targeting of weaguer women through sterilization practices to have an actual impact on the demographic composition of the populations of of western China of Shenzhang. So it really ranges depending on the openness of the environment and the closed nature of that. But it's been a I think a fundamental issue both in our support for democracy and in challenging authoritarian repression of of half of their society.
▶ 0:40:13What about sexual assault as a tool of
▶ 0:40:18This has been a big issue across our programs in the Democratic Republic of Congo. I've had a chance to visit with some of our partners in eastern Congo, south southern Congo.
▶ 0:40:27What do the programs do? Uh you may know uh Dennis McKe who is one of our partners in the DRC, one of the Nobel Peace Prize winners who is part of our portfolio and part of what he has done is help treat and help communities prepare to help women that have been abused by sexual violence in the conflict in eastern Congo. But I think more than that, we're not a humanitarian organization.
▶ 0:40:49We have comms that are working in communities to help raise awareness to help stig help stigmatize the practice of doing this in in Congo to create a sense of documentation of this so that there is an accountability and to create resilience both among women's groups but also among communities to support those who have been victimized by this violence. So the endowment comes at it not just from a humanitarian perspective. We come at it from a democracy, fundamental freedoms and governance perspective.
▶ 0:41:15Thank you. Yield back.
▶ 0:41:16Thank you, Mr. Susani. your recognized,
▶ 0:41:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, and thank you for being here with us and answering our questions, and thank you for coming today. I I'm going to get right to it. We have a short period of time, so hopefully we can get through a lot of these questions. And I know we have a second round, but I want to say a core criticism that I've heard from my constituents uh on this is that they feel that funding soft power initiatives like NED and has not resulted in the geopolitical landscape more favorable to the US interest.
▶ 0:41:45Right now, with your questions and testimony here today, I I hope we can help alleviate relevant criticisms about why continuing to fund NET has been a bipartisan priority on that and why it aligns with it can align if if done properly uh with a newly affirmed and streamlined national security priorities by the Trump administration and how that's aligning itself to that. So, let me get to my my first question. In light of this reality, how do we how do you measure progress?
▶ 0:42:12How do you measure success on the funds that are given and what metrics do you use? If you can be specific here, and this is why I'm saying this because in your testimony, you specifically emphasize how NED is one of the most cost-effective long-term investments the United States can make in global stability and specifically highlighted the countries that that you you fund programs like China, like Cuba, Venezuela, Iran. Uh we mentioned Russia as well.
▶ 0:42:37As I see it, these countries for decades have seen little to no progress in in democratic reform and have only recently actually have been seeing regime change when our military has gotten involved uh with pressure from the current administration. Furthermore, we have only seen democratic progress in or around uh China decrease actually with Hong Kong being a prime example for that. So, I'm not seeing a trend specifically in these countries of progress. Can you share with us how you measure progress and what metrics you use?
▶ 0:43:06Thank you very much for the question. I think it's an important issue to consider. Um the way we think about impact depends on how we define success. And so we'll do this at the level of an actual grant to make sure that an investment a particular investment is producing results at a country level or portfolio level as well as thinking about it more broadly. And so let me just take a minute to explain that. So at the grant level um we will look and see what the the benchmarks of what was set out to be achieved with that grant and how it delivered results.
▶ 0:43:35So in very specific cases we can see that $115,000 has led to an effort that revealed a CCP police station in Manhattan has documented that led to actions. We can see that partners in a place like China have actually helped build an effort to repeal a type of prolonged uh pre-trial detention that had a palpable impact that was used and weaponized against a political activist in the country. We'll also look at it at a portfolio level.
▶ 0:44:03And so you can think over time, you're right, in China today, if you're a weaguer, uh you're in a very difficult situation. And yet when the endowment gave its first grants, very modest grants to the Weaguer community, they were either unknown globally or believed to be China's Muslim terrorists.
▶ 0:44:20In part with modest endowment support over years, we've helped give the Weaguer community its voice by being able to document what's happening to them in the country, putting pressure on the regime to uh to address that behavior, and giving them a sense of human dignity in pursuing that. Um,
▶ 0:44:36but so I'm sorry because we're running out of time. So, what what results have we seen in in examples like that one? I get the process, but but what have we seen? And then on top of that, you mentioned the the grantees and um why is the grantee list still private? Uh you know, it's always is it always been that way or how often do you find grantees are not using tax dollars to their best of the effectiveness that they could be using it? So, so now that you mentioned that and I got a minute 20 left.
▶ 0:45:06So, if you can take that time to answer, you know, what the exact progress that we've seen, I get the process, but also why is a grantee list private?
▶ 0:45:15Sure. So, in the Weaguer case, for example, it did lead to extensive uh genocide designations about what was happening in Weaguer, really raising the cost for the PRC, the CCP's behavior. We've seen in other areas of support where former uh military dictatorships with support of our core institutes have become strong democratic allies of the United States being able to contribute much more to US national security.
▶ 0:45:40Uh if you think historically about what happened from Chile, the Philippines across central and eastern Europe, this was support that the endowment also helped provide in these transitions to consolidate their democracies. more recently in a country like Muldova and Bolivia which have come through very contested elections where we saw Bolivia slipping into authoritarianism or Muldova subject potentially to Russian influence and domination.
▶ 0:46:04The work of the endowment has helped local partners be able to defend their own democracy through strengthening their democratic institutions and through electoral processes. I think your point on the privacy uh on the public disclosure of partners is very important. Uh we publish our grants publicly twice a year. We do provide uh the requests we've provide with the administration often in briefings on heels on Congress the specific names and organizations that we will work with. Our board is uh privy to all of that.
▶ 0:46:34But we twice a year publish a grant listings uh of all of our grants, the activities that they undertake without the personal identifying information. What we adapted was a few years ago, frankly it was in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine where we used to try to say these are closed, these are dangerous environments, these are more open environments. What happened is formerly open environments whether Tunisia or Ukraine became quite dangerous for those names of the organizations that were out there. So publicly we don't disclose their information.
▶ 0:47:04We disclose the grant the amount where it goes what the activities are and privately are we maintain full transparency with our board with Capitol Hill with the executive branch as well. This is a way to balance our duty of care as well as our commitment to transparency. We have devolved and and many of these grantees uh in their own right disclose their relationship with the endowment are proud of that and and make that very much public. and other places as you can imagine in in Nicaragua or North Korea.
▶ 0:47:34These are the types of things that our grantees need to be able to protect.
▶ 0:47:38Mr.Wigley, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Wilson, um we're all familiar with Secretary Mattis quote that if you don't fully fund the State Department, uh you better buy me more ammunition. your thoughts on investing in civil society, the rule of law and democratic accountability and how that reduces the likelihood of state collapse, migration, extremism or conflict that could ultimately require US military intervention.
▶ 0:48:08And the professor in me says, please include in your answer uh the role of cuts to USID um and the US role in the world and the threats of conflict. Thank you for your question. Uh this is why we fundamentally see the work that we just do to support democracy and freedom as fundamental to America's national security interest.
▶ 0:48:29Um the issues that bedevil uh as members of Congress, this committee, issues that stem from conflict, from refugee flows, illegal migration, uh from illegal uh drug trafficking, human trafficking. These are real issues that are threats to our society.
▶ 0:48:46The investments that the endowment m makes complement other tools of America's foreign policy to help ensure that societies have the ability to resolve these issues themselves that we support those that take the initiative to solve problems in their own societies and when they succeed it becomes very good for us. It helps resolve conflicts peacefully. It gives people a stake in their local communities so that they don't feel that they have a reason to have to leave because of persecution or lack of opportunity.
▶ 0:49:16And so in many respects the the investments that the endowment make at the uh support for democratic institutions for inclusive governments responsive to their peoples is really a means to help ensure that those challenges and threats don't face the American people. I think this is an important uh an important contribution to to American national security and economic security.
▶ 0:49:40Again just to get full credit for your question answer um USID how that is specifically plays played a role and what if anything are you hearing from our NOS's allies and others uh of how this has impacted uh the US status in the world and uh local security issues.
▶ 0:50:06Look, a fundamental difference is uh USAD had a broad development uh set of responsibilities and priorities that it had to address. The endowment has a narrow focus on freedom and democracy. In some cases that overlapped we could see in the
▶ 0:50:20they have to be interconnected though.
▶ 0:50:22We could see in the role of elections and other areas there was an important role that that aid played at that moment. But we also saw the foundational effort that in the absence of having accountability uh addressing corruption uh uh having responsive government that many investments that you can make uh uh across other humanitarian and and development aspects um could be put at risk without the foundational issues of rule of law of accountability.
▶ 0:50:51And so really there's a synergy there between ensuring that we are helping provide that fundamental uh democratic accountability. If you think about our work across Latin America or Ukraine, it has helped Ukrainians or Latin Americans ensure that assistance or ensure that public expenditures are not wasted or stolen but are used for those intentional purposes. And I think that has been sort of the the connections that's been quite important.
▶ 0:51:16Where we've noticed the biggest impact for us, where we've had to focus uh is funding uh around elections. Um the endowment has emerged as a significant supporter of elections globally. We weren't in that position uh previously as well as in support for independent media.
▶ 0:51:32Very good. Thank you. I yield back, Mr.
▶ 0:51:37Mr. Adwards, the vice chairman of the subcommittee. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Wilson, thanks for being with us this morning. Are you familiar with a Heritage Foundation report titled The UNDocratic National Endowment for Democracy Needs Oversight and Reform?
▶ 0:51:54Yes, sir, I am.
▶ 0:51:56I'd like to ask a couple of questions uh stemming from that report. Uh, it recommends folding NED funding into the State Department, arguing that the endowment duplicates existing democracy assistance functions.
▶ 0:52:13Can you explain to this panel how Ned's private grant making grantmaking model differs operationally and legally from the state programming particularly in politically sensitive environments where the United States government branding could be counterproductive and whether consolidation would reduce flexibility or effectiveness.
▶ 0:52:36Thank you for that question. Um part of the the mandate that we follow or created by Congress was to do this work of support for democracy and freedom through private means of private support for private actors around the world in a way that was consistent with and complemented US foreign policy but was supplemental and complimentary. And so in many respects I would argue that we very much do not duplicate. We don't uh uh we don't undertake foreign policy.
▶ 0:53:07uh we consult with state, we consult with the hill on these programs. Uh but we rem remain focused on our congressional mission which is to support fundamental freedoms and democratic rights. And so if you think about uh uh the way we operate, it's really built not on big projects or not for complicated foreign policy goals that we may need to be tracking which involve a military agreement, a trade agreement. The endowment has a laser focus on the congressional support for fundamental freedoms.
▶ 0:53:35Um, and what this allows us to do is to support American interests over the long term in a way that supplements and complements other tools that the United States has in its foreign policy toolkit. You can think about this in a couple of ways that um that um how it complements sanctions policy, security assistance, diplomacy by what we do on strengthening transparency, democratic institutions.
▶ 0:54:04And we've seen at times real complimentary uh work in Ukraine. Our work has helped ensure that American support on the defense side has not gone to corrupt uh has exposed corruption and helped protect American investment.
▶ 0:54:17Uh we've seen uh we've seen this in places historically even where uh the effect of Ned's private support for example in a place like Cuba allowed us to maintain our work in supporting Cuban dissident even when a previous administration was engaged in talks with the regime in Havana about restoring diplomatic relations requesting that NED IRI and DDI that our program cease in Cuba.
▶ 0:54:43We were able to continue those I think at an important time reflecting how it can complement American foreign policy, continue to advance our interests and doing that in full consultation with Congress and the administration.
▶ 0:54:55Thank you. We're we're going to run out of time. I've got many questions. Uh let let me squeeze this one in though. That same report alleges a number of programs from the National Endowment of Democracy might not be fully supporting an American first agenda.
▶ 0:55:15Can you tell me uh what is the process for terminating or restructuring a program that you might discover does not support America First? and how and how do you make Congress aware of those situations?
▶ 0:55:35Thank you for that question. I think it's important. Uh the chairman referenced this in the opening and I'll pick up on that that we have a flexibility and agility. Uh we work through every grant that goes through ext uh quite a bit of vetting and due diligence that is approved by our board that is briefed to the Hill that is shared with the administration. when we determine that there is something that we're concerned of information that came to light, we have the ability to act quickly and suspend immediately.
▶ 0:56:03So, the chairman referred to one of these, an example related to uh the uh to the global disinformation index in which Heritage has asserted that we have censored. I would argue that Ned does not censor Americans free speech, never has supported efforts to suppress or defund media outlets.
▶ 0:56:23when we learned for example of a organization that using the funds of another donor did a work on the United States on the US media environment in a way that was inconsistent with the net mandate. When I became aware of that we or we halted the grant immediately.
▶ 0:56:40We ordered a review, did an internal review, terminated that relationship, clawed back the unspent funds, and briefed both Congress and our board all within a week, bringing that issue to light ourselves to acknowledge what had happened and how we dealt with it rather than waiting to be told how to address it. I think that's an attitude and approach we bring. We understand that supporting freedom and democracy, particularly in closed environments, repressive environments, this is complicated. This can be difficult work.
▶ 0:57:10We need to be able to take prudent risks on behalf of freedom fight freedom fighters that are doing taking a lot of courageous acts, but we have to be able to have the mechanisms to realize this hasn't either worked out or it's gone in a direction there's other work involved that is just inconsistent with how we would operate and we can rectify that immediately and brief that out to
▶ 0:57:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield.
▶ 0:57:32Thank you, sir. Uh Mr. Molar. I'm privileged to have the chairman of the China Task Force on this subcommittee. You're recognized, sir.
▶ 0:57:39Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Wilson, thank you for being here with us today. Uh just to follow up on some of the issues that you were talking about. Um when you came in in this leadership role with Ned, uh Ned had previously funded the Global Disinformation Index. It's a group that effectively blacklisted conservative news outlets in the United States.
▶ 0:58:05Um, could you describe what changes you've made to ensure that taxpayer dollars are not suppressing Americans free speech?
▶ 0:58:12Thank you for the question. As I said, the endowment does not censor Americans free speech. We have never supported any work that suppresses or defunds US media outlets, conservative or otherwise. We don't fund any programs that are focused on the United States by statute.
▶ 0:58:30Our work is solely focused on what happens uh around the world This is an example, the grant you referenced was an example that was work focused on how to research that vulnerabilities that were taking place in foreign media markets and it included efforts of China's efforts to to distort information abroad to bring propaganda into these media markets.
▶ 0:58:54So the endowment never funded this organization's work related to the United States, related to audiences in the United States, any of that. But as I said, when we became aware that work undertaken on the United States, funded by another donor, inconsistent with our mandate, we acted immediately. We halted the grant. We ordered a review. We terminated the relationship. We called back the remaining funds. And we took we briefed our board.
▶ 0:59:21We took the initiative to brief uh Congress on that issue and we did a review of our our work to ensure that safeguards were in place so that we had a perspective on what are the activities of the partners that we support that we may not be funding but other activities that we would be concerned would make them inappropriate as partners for US public taxpayer funds.
▶ 0:59:42Thank you. And as you pointed out now when President Reagan and Congress uh envisioned Ned, it would be to be a a nonpartisan institution. Can you describe the board, the staff? Is it 50/50 Republican, Democrat? How how would you describe that?
▶ 1:00:02So our board by statute and by practice is a balanced uh among Democrats and Republicans includes business and labor representatives. We're pleased that across the boards of NED and the Core Institute, there are 10 members of Congress that serve. We welcome your honorary membership of our board uh as as well. Um and so for the endowment, our chairman, Peter Roscom, a former House uh Republican member of Congress, reflecting the party that controls the presidency.
▶ 1:00:30Uh we have three former members uh of the Trump administration of Trump administration that serve on our board. We take that seriously. The board has a governance process. The board itself ensures that it is politically balanced for our staff. We are laser focused on expertise. We have a talent based a meritbased talent strategy that looks for the best experts that understand the realities happening on the ground in countries around the world.
▶ 1:00:56We have a very professional staff, a very public way of thinking about how we recruit that talent based on people that are driven by the mission that bring expertise allow us to speak 45 languages. And I think that combination of a structure that is by definition built as a bipartisan entity and yet with a mission and a team that is by definition through non nonpartisan execution.
▶ 1:01:19That's what gives us the credibility and I think the legitimacy to work on behalf of the American people but also to do our work around the Speaking of your work around the world, um you know, if my constituents were to ask me, $315 million going to net, how does that support US national security interests as well as the interests of people in my home state of Michigan?
▶ 1:01:47Thank you for the question. I think about this in two ways. Um, uh, my grandmother worked in a textile mill in North Carolina and I I I used to have to talk to her about what I did and I would go both ways. She's very patriotic and we would talk about how our country is exceptional. It's great because of our people, the economy, our military, uh, our geography.
▶ 1:02:12But one of the most powerful things that she understood, a woman who wasn't very educated, was that what inspired our country 250 years ago is what inspires people around the world. The ideals of human dignity, of freedom, of democratic And that fact is what helps make us great and powerful. I think President Reagan saw this and understanding in the Cold War. This is one of the parts of what allowed us to win the Cold War without fighting.
▶ 1:02:39But I can also bring it home for my uncle who's a veteran, a little bit more pragmatic to address the issues that you might hear from constituents that it really does matter for our national security and economic security that the issues that we have to deal with conflicts, refugee flows, migration, diseases, drugs, terrorism. I think the American people have painfully learned which happens overseas doesn't always stay there. whether it's in in Caracus or Kabul, they have felt the consequences in their communities.
▶ 1:03:09And so I think uh the way we think about this work, how we prevent instability and conflict and migration pressures before they become threats and very expensive threats to the United States, but it's also fundamental to how American firms and businesses can compete. Often in your district, they depend on these overseas markets. The work we do ensures that American workers are not undercut by slave labor and American firms have a level playing field in which they can compete.
▶ 1:03:37And I think that can bring it home to why uh this is a dollar for value focused on delivering for the American people.
▶ 1:03:45Thank you. And I yield back, Mr.
▶ 1:03:47Mr. Alfred, you recognize, sir.
▶ 1:03:49Well, thank you uh Chairman DSBR and ranking member Frankle uh for this hearing today. President Trump and Secretary Rubio have ushered in a new golden era of America first foreign policy. They've moved away from the old State Department mindset, one that too often focused on so-called global interests rather than American interests. American taxpayers should not send one single dollar to a program that does not support our clearly defined national interest.
▶ 1:04:18That's why I again thank you chairman for your excellent work on the subcommittee and for working with the president and the secretary to advance America first foreign policy. For context, the National Endowment of Democracy was created in Congress in 1983 as an independent nonprofit grant-making institution intended to strengthen democratic institutions abroad. Its core mission has long been to support growth of democratic institutions, civil society, free markets, and the rule of law around the world.
▶ 1:04:46I believe that overall NED supports this vision. Its work in Venezuela, Iran, China, and Russia have been critical to supporting American interests against these hostile nations. However, NED has not been perfect by any In fact, Ned's funding of the Global Disinformation Index, roughly $100,000, represents a serious lapse in judgment that demands accountability. And I think an apology here today, sir.
▶ 1:05:15The Global Disinformation Index did not simply study disinformation. It created tools that were used to blacklist and financially pressure media outlets. These tools were pointed directly at the American right and were a key component of the left struggle to crush new media like the Daily Wire, Breitbart, and Joe Rogan. At best, this episode reflects a troubling failure of oversight.
▶ 1:05:41At worst, it suggests taxpayer dollars indirectly supported efforts that undermined core American free speech principles. The funding of such an organization is doubly concerning given that Ned's mandate explicitly forbids any programming within the United States. And that's why, sir, the vote on the House floor to defund NED was so difficult for some of us. I knew when I got on this committee that I was going to have to te take tough votes.
▶ 1:06:10This was a tough votes for many of us. In fact, 127 of my Republican colleagues voted to defund NED. We have had to answer a lot of questions and rightfully so from our constituents of why we voted against this amendment and let the funding go forward for NED. I choose not to throw the baby out with a bathwater because I believe in the core mission of NED, but it's gotten off the rails.
▶ 1:06:39The American people deserve, my constituents deserve to know, and I think you've done some explaining here today. Again, I think you owe an apology to the American people. Um, the global uh disinformation index in its name itself is a 1984 George Orwell title uh for a a follow-up to 1984.
▶ 1:07:02This is it's not an excuse in my book to say, "Hey, we caught it after the fact." What do you have to say to the American people about this? We take this issue extremely seriously. As I said, we would never support censorship of Americans suppressing any type of media in the United States. We do not fund anything related to US democracy. But the people you give money to did do that.
▶ 1:07:33When we learned that this this partner had undertaken that work, it is anathema to how we approach our work. It is inconsistent with our mandate. Providing 1500 grants in over 90 countries around the world, often in modest increments. That's a lot of uh grants that we manage. If there is something that we determine is wrong as
▶ 1:07:56why did you catch it going be before you gave the money to the global disinformation index? How did you not know what they were doing?
▶ 1:08:05When we supported that first originally they had no work related to the United States and what we were supporting was work taking place in countries around the world that were struggling with threats to their media environments. We helped them support the analysis of how the CCP was beginning to influence narratives, propagandas within societies in Africa and Latin America. We see this as a serious issue. We know that that Russia and China have used and weaponized propaganda and information to try to shape narratives.
▶ 1:08:36This work uh what we were funding had nothing to do with the United States at the time at the beginning of their relationship. They were not involved in the United States.
▶ 1:08:45All right, sir. We are out of time. Will you apologize to the American people for wasting their money on a program that went after right uh truthtelling media in America?
▶ 1:08:54Uh we took immediate action.
▶ 1:08:57Will you apologize, sir?
▶ 1:08:58We regret that we made this decision and we actually have have rectified it and held ourselves accountable, came up to respond to Congress and address it.
▶ 1:09:07Well, if I gave that type of apology to my wife, I'd be out of the house. I yield back.
▶ 1:09:17thank you. Let me uh a couple things you there. We keep hearing and by the way, rightfully so about in essence one major screw. You just mentioned that I guess it was originally meant for abroad. They weren't doing anything here and then they started doing stuff internally United States. That's when you in essence cut their funding.
▶ 1:09:42That's correct. Uh, I've heard folks mention that that we should roll Ned into the Department of State. I I think that the secretary of state has done a phenomenal job in really kind of you know bringing uh controlling the department of state, but we had ample debate in this subcommittee about in the previous administration the department of state funding things that were frankly not only not helping our national security interest but potentially
▶ 1:10:12even hurting our national security interests. And as you all know, we had a debate in our committee where Department of State had spent money on uh issues. I mean, they've all been, you know, made very public, including, you know, trans issues and Muslim country, things like that. I I don't remember the specifics right now, but we heard a lot of those.
▶ 1:10:35Um what we never heard from the Department of State, the previous Department of State was either a correction or a defunding of any of those issues. And I think the one thing that makes Ned different, well, another a lot of things that makes Ned different when you do hear and when you do find uh that is against the mandate created by Congress, you act quickly.
▶ 1:11:05How long roughly, because I've said days, but I want to make sure that I'm accurate. How long roughly between the time that you found out that this one grantee was doing things that were against not only the charge but I would argue against our national security interest. How long roughly did it take for you to find it and correct it and defund it?
▶ 1:11:29We became aware I became aware the leadership on a Friday night and by the following Thursday we had completed our review. We had halted the grant immediately, completed the review by the following Thursday, informed met with our board and informed uh Congress of that decision. And again, I see that's that's I think the big difference. And and and one of the things that I you know, I've not said publicly, I guess a lot, but I've said it privately a lot.
▶ 1:11:55And during during the Obama administration, uh, and you kind of mentioned it in your opening statement, not about a specific administration, but during the Obama administration, when the Obama administration was basically giving concession after concession to all of the enemies of the United States, and let me talk about Western Hemisphere. when the Obama administration did this reapproachment to the Castro regime, asking nothing from the Castro regime, um, but actually was looking at helping fund that regime, etc.
▶ 1:12:27Correct me if I'm wrong. You all did not change your policy, your approach to how to deal with the anti-American terrorist regime in Cuba, did you? Despite, by the way, the fact that the Obama administration was looking at a totally different strategy,
▶ 1:12:44we maintain that we have a responsibility to deliver on our congressional mandate, which gives us an exclusive focus on support for freedom and democracy consistent with American long-term interests. In Cuba, it was pretty clear that as long as a dictator was continuing to imprison their political opponents, to repress uh their people, uh to build a kleptocratic state that was a threat to the United States that we would maintain as a priority our support for the Cuban people. Um Mr. Chairman, I think you've hit a important point.
▶ 1:13:15We're built so that there is no such thing as mission creep from one administration priorities to another. We stay laser focused on freedom and democracy consistently over the time. The bipartisan structure, nonpartisan work helps us avoid getting into being pulled into issues that where they may not be a domestic political basis for support. We are not ideological. We do not promote uh uh social agendas overseas.
▶ 1:13:41And I think um our ability to be able to uh uh to focus on what matters to this committee, to members of that's why we're responsive. That's why members will have our cell phone. We'll come up the next day to brief, answer questions. Um we would never fund the issue of censorship, particularly anything related to censoring Americans. We would we would never do that. It's anathema uh to our being.
▶ 1:14:10What we have done is we've heard and we've listened about the importance of being responsive, getting oversight right, of being laser focused on what matters. And so our programming, we did an entire review of our programming to ensure that we are focused on piercing authoritarian censorship, that it were supporting freedom of expression, and that we are one of the most significant supporters of free speech around the world in a way that I think reflects fundamental American values, but the priorities that we've heard from members
▶ 1:14:40of Congress.
▶ 1:14:42Ranking member,
▶ 1:14:47well, this has been interesting. just so that again thank you for being That's what I love about this committee. We have very diverse views on some things but you know we all do support democracy and I want to just say that I think it's important to realize that that democracy is a majority rule uh also requires protecting minority rights and I that's why I think it's so important that uh we have diversity and
▶ 1:15:17that's something of course have a little bit of a conflict with the current administration uh but what I want to ask you about um is this the the authoritarian influences in the world and we'll see what we can get through. Can you start with Iran because we I know what what we're seeing and hearing is horrendous with thousands of thousands of protesters being murdered. What are you doing anything in Iran? Can you tell us what that is?
▶ 1:15:48Thank you. Yes, we're seeing a grotesque tragedy unfolding in Iran as of brutalizes its people tried to shut down access to information communication so that it could do this in private. This has been a huge priority for the endowment. Iran has been since I arrived at the endowment our fastest growing program. It's now one of our largest programs globally that involves both direct partners, Iranian groups as well as our core institutes.
▶ 1:16:14Um, if you think about the impact of our work in Iran, the reason the women life freedom movement, this the began with the the simple act of a young woman who didn't fully cover her her head with a headscarf. That story of Masaini could have been lost in a regional as a regional story in Iran. But Ned Partners helped cover that story, get it out to the world and get it back into Iran.
▶ 1:16:38What we're seeing today, uh, the endowment has been making investments over years that have ensured that there have been secure communications, including Starlinks, other means of file casting that allowed information to go both in and out of the country at a time when the regime tried to hide its brutal crackdown. Uh, we were able to pierce that censorship. We've seen very reliable estimates of these casualty figures around the world of what Iran is doing to its people.
▶ 1:17:06Um, in part because the endowment has invested over years in groups that have human rights networks across the country that have a very rigid a very serious process for vetting casualty counts and being able to provide international media and others credible source of what's happened. Documenting uh uh uh 17,000 deaths uh deaths up upwards potentially of 30,000 remain under review by our partners right now. This is the type of work that I think is really important.
▶ 1:17:36At the same time, in a very difficult environment, the connection we can support between groups outside Iran, those inside where it's very difficult to organize. And we've seen the engagement of business groups, of labor groups on the ground, of of uh of Kurdish political actors uh across the the spectrum working together on issues that are quite thorny and difficult for Iran's future. What does transitional justice look like? what could other constitutional arrangements be?
▶ 1:18:05Um, it is a very repressive environment and I think as long as the Iranian uh regime uh is cracking down on its people, we will be there by their side that they know the American people support them. Part of what we see manifesting is a response that our partners have helped tell the Iranian people the story that the regime has squandered their own resources on supporting proxies throughout the Middle East to the point where they cannot manage their own water supplies for tyrron.
▶ 1:18:34And these stories have not just emerged, they are ones that have been covered, documented, and shared with the Iranian people consistently through our Well, you know, to me, Iran is especially concerning, not only because what they're doing inside their country, but the the uh Iran with its proxies and its nuclear weapons and so forth, I think is a big threat to the world. Uh I believe, Mr.
▶ 1:18:59Chair, that we just got a notification that the State Department is actually funding a new uh program to I guess with Starlink. Is that what it's called? Can can you explain that? Uh I I wouldn't want to speak on behalf of the State Department, but what I would share is that we've been investing in in communication tools over over years that allow uh for information to be sent into Iran even when uh internet connectivity is blocked.
▶ 1:19:28Uh we specifically began supporting the deployment the operation of about 200 Starlinks early on.
▶ 1:19:34All right. You know what? I'm going to interrupt you. We better not talk about it. Okay. So what I did
▶ 1:19:40Good point though. That's a good point though. Well, I I I think the point is though this is something that you've been trying to do and I was just going to ask you one more question on this. What in terms of Iran, what recommendation would you make for us in terms of any other uh things that we could do either let's say peacefully or you know with power uh with hard power.
▶ 1:20:07You know, it's not my position to recommend a US policy. I don't get involved in US policy decisions. We we understand what our role is. Support
▶ 1:20:16I I think the most important thing it's what Dante Facel member of Congress said when Ned was founded. If you don't like a dictator, continue to support their people. And I think one of the most important thing is right now the Iran, we are hearing pleas of cries from the Iranian people to be able to determine their future, h protect fundamental freedoms, and to do so in a way that brings together uh diverse communities across Iran.
▶ 1:20:41I think our support for the Iranian people to know that in their darkest times when people are imprisoned when they have faced casualties that those who have come to help support them that have provided that aid that assistance uh are the American people. We have seen over and over again in people's darkest times when they know that the endowment and through the endowment the American people have been with them.
▶ 1:21:05They become America's strongest partners and allies when they are no longer in the shadows, but are actually helping to shape the future of their societies. And I think it's important for the Iranian people to know that we stand with them.
▶ 1:21:16Thank you very much,
▶ 1:21:17Mr. Edwards.
▶ 1:21:20Mr. Mr. Wilson, the report that I referred to earlier says that uh Ned's total revenue increased from about 180 million in fiscal year 2019 to over 300 million by fiscal year 2022 and it characterizes that growth as unjustified.
▶ 1:21:42Can you explain what specific geopolitical or congressional priorities drove that increase such as maybe support for Ukraine, countering uh other influences or China focused programming? And then also tell us whether those increases were tied to appropriated mandates from Congress rather than institutional expansion initiated by NED itself.
▶ 1:22:12Thank you for that question. Yes, that's accurate. Uh before I came to the endowment, uh uh Congress was involved in helping to increase the endowments, uh budget, recognizing that the challenge to freedom had fundamentally changed. Uh we have seen ups and downs these third democratic waves. We've been in a two decade of a democratic recession.
▶ 1:22:33And what I understand from talking to to to members appropriators that were involved at the time, a recognition that things had fundamentally changed by how uh authoritarian advers adversaries had begun perfecting repression at home, surveillance, technology, tools. We've seen that uh and the real uh expansion of repression inside countries. But second began to export the tools, tactics and technologies of that repression.
▶ 1:23:01So that the policing techniques we saw on the streets of Minsk and Bellarus or the journalists that were even running news programs in Bellarus directly from Vladimir Putin's Russia. The export of these tools, tactics and technologies turbocharged with China's export of surveillance combined with uh the fact that we saw authoritarians now working together. You saw that in Spades in Venezuela.
▶ 1:23:26We saw how Cuba has been at the heart of authoritarian uh uh resurgence in Nicaragua and Venezuela. We see that in Ukraine today. So part of this was to continue to give the United States through the endowment an expanded toolkit and with that uh Congress encouraged the creation of two mechanisms that the endowment introduced at the time.
▶ 1:23:49One was to recognize uh what became called strategic cooperation funds that as we saw adversaries working together that we needed to do a better job of seeing triedand-trude grassroots partners but scaling them up where they had had proven track records to be able to connect they could learn with others and to be able to scale that to more uh strategic cooperation so that those partners that might have had a breakthrough on one issue in one country we could roll out to others. Uh, for example, we're doing that right now in artificial intelligence.
▶ 1:24:20How can that be used in a David versus Goliath way? And when we see partners that use AI in a way that advances fundamental freedoms, we have the ability to help connect across our portfolio. So that learning doesn't stay only in the minds of that one partner, but can be spread across the ecosystem to give democratic forces a better chance. The second instrument is called contingency funds.
▶ 1:24:44And part of what Congress valued at the time is unlike uh uh government agencies, we operate and can move money rapidly and quickly and in smaller amounts. Uh and so we have an ability to invoke a contingency fund when there is an unanticipated crisis or conflict or an opportunity and those funds helped us respond whether it was a war in Ukraine, a coup in the Sahel or more recently in a place like Bangladesh.
▶ 1:25:09Are there other funding sources for the National Endowment of Democracy or are you 100% funded by what you get here from
▶ 1:25:20We're uh we're we're we're predominantly funded by public funding. It's about 98% of of NED's resources. We have modest private uh private funds that provide support for some of our our activities, our awards, things that are adjacent to our programming. And what influence does that other 2% have on your agenda or the way that uh you operate the endowment?
▶ 1:25:45It doesn't have an influence on the agenda. We we operate according to a a very clear mission that's set by Congress and everything that we decide to fund through grants goes through a review process with our board approval by the board of directors which uh retains decision-making authority. our priorities are set in consultation uh with Congress uh not by outside
▶ 1:26:07Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield.
▶ 1:26:09Mr. Mullenar.
▶ 1:26:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And for this uh second round of questions, I want to talk with you a little bit about Ned's work relative to China and you've talked a bit about, you know, the Weaguer genocide and that designation and the work that Ned did.
▶ 1:26:25I'd love for you to expand on that because you know a lot of American businesses are competing with companies that use slave labor and shin um and also some of our supply chains uh are dependent on that and uh also if you'd talk a bit about the surveillance the you know the national security laws that China and the CCP have put in place.
▶ 1:26:51you mentioned the police stations and uh some of the vulnerabilities that Chinese nationals even on our home shore are affected by and if you could talk a little bit about Ned's work in both of those areas.
▶ 1:27:06Thank you. Thank you, Congressman. Uh first of all, I'd say that China is our largest program and that includes work in the mainland and and East Turkiststan, Shen Jang and Hong Kong uh as well as uh Tibet um as well as our work addressing China's influence around the world. It's become our largest program because of the significance that it represents both for the challenge to freedom and the scale of that. You've referenced a couple of key areas for our our programming.
▶ 1:27:35We see the CCP's model that combines this element of economic coercion as as you've pointed out with digital surveillance, forced labor, and this transnational repression. It's a suite of tools that has really actually made this work for support for democracy more difficult. And it's a model that has affected US security, our supply chains, our businesses and workers.
▶ 1:27:58So in many cases our partners have been involved in documenting the use of weaguer force labor uh whether it's been in EVs uh the production of electric vehicles uh solar they have worked to document that uh both in country getting that information out which has actually helped inform uh the weager force labor act uh trade sanctions uh has led to other countries in Europe for example also becoming more serious about their supply chains related to China.
▶ 1:28:26It's also been done by groups that we support that are weaguerled. So, uh, while their situation is still quite difficult, this is a form of of power, giving them a sense of dignity to be able to help defend their own people in their own right. On the surveillance side, uh, this has been most deeply concerning on the use of technology across the board. Um uh we've seen the export of surveillance technologies uh that have been used pretty expansively.
▶ 1:28:55Even being able to pick up DNA, not just facial recognition, but being able to determine are there weer attributes. Um uh part of what we uh part of what we have done uh uh in response is really to help seed a group of organizations around the world that are becoming experts and how the CCP engages in their own societies so that whether it's in Africa or Latin America that it's not Americans showing up and saying beware of
▶ 1:29:25surveillance technology, beware of the strings attached to a CCP deal. We are now supporting organizations uh in Nigeria and Colombia where they can talk to their own parliaments uh go on their own media and explain why there's uh the risk associated with uh the relationship with the CCP
▶ 1:29:45and would you also talk a little bit about your work in Nicaragua? That's something that I know you've been involved there and certainly has a lot of importance uh as we think of our
▶ 1:29:57Thank you for that question. I actually just recently returned from Costa Rica, which I made a priority for going there to try to visit our Nicaraguan partners. Um, in the past 18 months, uh, we have had, uh, two Nicaraguans part of a freedom movement assassinated in Costa Rica. A third was abducted, taken to Honduras, assassinated there.
▶ 1:30:23we have seen a burgeoning proliferation of the the reach of Nicaraguan security services into Costa Rica. So, I just went to the border of Nicaragua to meet with Ned's partners uh that bring together extraordinarily courageous folks um to underscore our sense of solidarity in a time when they have pressure on them even in exile.
▶ 1:30:48Uh, so Nicaragua after Venezuela, Cuba, it's our third largest program in the Western Hemisphere, reflecting the nature of a pretty extreme repression from the Ortega Maria regime following their return to power. Uh, our portfolio puts an emphasis on supporting independent media, access to information. We have an incredible suite of Nicaraguan journalists with coverage networks inside the country that ensure that Nicaraguans still know what's happening.
▶ 1:31:17Uh we support those that are documenting uh both these crimes inside the country as well as the crimes that are happening outside of Nicaragua. Uh we delivered a package of of much of that documentation to Costa Rican authorities while we were while we were there. Um we're also supporting groups that are remarkable uh whether they are peasants capacinos from the movement that resisted the Chinese effort to build a canal across their communities in Nicaragua.
▶ 1:31:46We've seen disaffected sandinistas, former Contras coming together, understanding the importance of nonviolence, peaceful resistance, and to prepare for a different future in Nicaragua. Um, uh, religious freedom has been an important part of this program as well, uh, in part by how the state has weaponized the church and has gone after faith-based leaders in the community as well as indigenous leaders. But finally, I'll just say in many respects, it's also very personal work.
▶ 1:32:15um uh all of credible candidates running against uh Daniel Ortega were all imprisoned. He tried to prevent what happened in Venezuela coming together have a democratic opposition. Let's unify our forces against the regime. He put this to a stop by arresting all.
▶ 1:32:31one of those uh candidates, Felix Mariaga, just to give you a sense of our relationships of trust, when he thought that regime forces would be coming for him, he wrote down on a sheet of paper a phone number and he turned to his wife Bertova and he said, "If they take me, call this number, call NED. They will know what to do." And so I think while we have lots of programs and projects, this long-term presence, it is the underlying relationships of trust that people know who we are.
▶ 1:32:59They understand how we've stood by them in difficult times. It gives us the ability to be relevant and supportive in very difficult
▶ 1:33:07Thank you very much. And I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:33:09Thank you, Mr. Alfred.
▶ 1:33:11Uh thank you for this followup. Mr. Wilson, what was the original grant uh uh figure to the global disinformation index and when was that awarded? I'll have to get you the exact details. Uh the award uh took place before I came to the endowment. It was renewed since uh I know it was uh uh I don't have the exact details.
▶ 1:33:34Did anyone know your predecessors? Do you have knowledge of anyone knowing that they dealt with so-called disinformation regarding climate change and COVID?
▶ 1:33:45I'm unaware of of those issues.
▶ 1:33:49What guard rails have you put in place to make sure that this type of misappropriation of funds uh does not go to another organization like this? I'd say a couple of things have been very important to us since I've come in and even an earlier conversation with the chairman. Uh the chairman underscored to me I think in our first meeting that the reason Congress is interested in supporting this work is because we don't have competing priorities. We don't do climate change, we don't do COVID, we do freedom.
▶ 1:34:20And that laser focus on the rigid the the process the rigorous process of going through with our entire team going through with our board. Is this a democracy project? Does it work on fundamental freedoms? Is it consistent with our mandate mission? That discipline is a part of what we've helped in instill.
▶ 1:34:36What I'm trying to get to, did someone in NED know ahead of time what Global Disinformation Index was trying to correct information or or control information? Or did the the correction come after they were awarded this grant? That's what I want to know. I think what led to this this grant was a a truly difficult circumstances on how to deal with authoritarian influences and manipulation.
▶ 1:35:07But did they overlook the other so-called misinformation they were trying to correct on climate change and
▶ 1:35:14I'm just unaware of a climate change and co issue. Um for us part of what we've also done in the wake of this we have made it a point to say that we need to be have visibility on the nonfunded NED work that our partners are doing to assess whether this is a relationship we could have and in that case we would never fund that work but if we had known they were funding that work we would not have had that relationship with them in the beginning and I think that's an important part
▶ 1:35:42since being on the subcommittee which I'm honored to be on um I I've I've kind of seen a trend here in the last year. USID of course moving most of the programs over to uh State Department. PE PEP FAR uh transitioning to um uh over several years. I think it's going to be transitioned off of the American taxpayers uh to other countries that have an interest in in keeping that alive. World Food Program, we had Cindy McCain two weeks ago.
▶ 1:36:10uh she is transferring a lot of the responsibility to other countries and charities trying to uh help even out the uh aid for that and now NE uh the potential of it being folded into the state department would that be a good thing uh if not in your estimation why not you know I think the the intent behind the endowment the brilliance was to ensure that there was a private institution delivering for American long-term interests in a way that could be agile flexible
▶ 1:36:41and focused on democracy only. So I think the formula that our founders and and our predecessors came up with is a brilliant one to give the United States an extraordinary uh toolkit that complements traditional foreign policy tools. Um I'd also say that part of what the endowment has done has worked to encourage those who have benefited from freedom to contribute to that cause.
▶ 1:37:04So we have worked to ensure that there is now a European endowment for democracy, a Taiwan foundation for democracy, so that those who benefited from American support in previous eras are now coming together to work with us to help ensure and invest in freedom and democracy so that it's not left as a burden for America alone, but those who have enjoyed freedom begin to pay that back. Mr. Wilson, I don't want there to be any misunderstanding. I do appreciate you being here. I do appreciate your work. I'm looking out for my constituents.
▶ 1:37:34I'm looking out for the American taxpayers. There is a feeling in America, especially my district, that we need to be looking out for America first. And I've said this before, America first doesn't mean America only. That's why NE is important. That we can have a foothold in the world to spread democracy, truth, and hope for people who are suffering. Thank you so much, and I yield back,
▶ 1:37:58Mr. Scammani. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and uh thank you for sticking around here for second round of fun with us. I appreciate it. Uh I w to I want to pick up right where we left off which was on the on the list of grantees that we were discussing and uh and I had to step out so that you might have mentioned this but I I do want to go back to that and and understand the the the privacy concerns in terms of the the safety of of
▶ 1:38:28the the specifics I guess of of the grantees. Now some of that is disclosed publicly not all of it. it is disclosed to your board. Uh I think it's really hard to hold the these tax dollars accountable from where we're appropriating. That's that's our job to appropriate these funds and then add accountability to them if we can't see that list. So at least, you know, we should be able to see that.
▶ 1:38:55So if that can be made public to our committee and then I would like to get that list and and see where exactly that is going.
▶ 1:39:03Yes. And let me make a distinction because we believe we're committed to full transparency with our oversight committees with the executive branch. What we make a distinction is with public disclosure. So we we marry the idea of full transparency in our operations and how we act with a duty of care to our partners to not put them at risk. And I think that is a very doable approach to ensure that you what you're interested in the chairman others have access to the n what we support. We publish the grants publicly.
▶ 1:39:34Uh we provide each grant how much it is, what it goes towards. What we don't do is provide personal identifying
▶ 1:39:40I got that. I got that. I understand that. But I I need to see that. And then I I'll determine
▶ 1:39:45what what my thoughts are on that list after I see that list. So, thank you for that. The the other piece that I want to ask you here and and the both the testimony and here you mentioned um the the requests and uh that are assessed for their strategic impact. that strategic impact and that strategy is important to know where that's coming from. What what strategy are you measuring it by? Uh is it the president's strategy on national security or another strategy?
▶ 1:40:10Because this this this has to match exactly I mean the renaming of this committee of of national security that is our main interest. Any dollar that leaves the United States to a foreign nation has got to serve the interest of the American people and our national security. That is the lens from which I see all aid that we are able to provide or push for democracy. It has to mean that it comes back to benefit the citizens of this nation and also our national interest in terms of security.
▶ 1:40:40So can you um lay out what strategy specifically you're talking about regarding uh what determines your
▶ 1:40:48Absolutely. uh we develop our approach, our strategy in a way that is absolutely consistent with administration priorities and congressional priorities. We see it as important to be complimentary to American foreign policy on these issues. And so the endowment has a strategy that's based on the reality of experience on the ground, but what is important for our country. It's why we prioritize our work in uh uh the authoritarian resurgent states.
▶ 1:41:15It's why we have investment in how to ensure that this technological revolution serves freedom just doesn't undermine freedom. And it's why we're committed to ensuring that the United States is present in support of democratic forces in key bell regions around the world and a big geopolitical uh competition. Um within that our teams develop country strategies that reflect the reality of what takes place. We don't show up with cookie cutter strategies. We aren't imposing our views.
▶ 1:41:44We aren't importing uh our values or blueprints uh on top of another country's context. We're drawing from understanding of what's happening in that country to what will be effective to advance democratic norms, fundamental freedoms in that country and that strategy for itself. And then we have a means to come back and evaluate how are we doing against the strategy that we've set out to do. It's why when we report our spending plan to Congress, we lay this out in quite a bit of detail over how we'll spend over the course of the coming fiscal year.
▶ 1:42:14We come back and report with an annual report how we spent that. And so we'll set out reflecting of administration uh congressional priorities. That's why China is our number one program. Asia's our largest investment.
▶ 1:42:25I'm going to jump in here. Sorry to interrupt. I've got 30 seconds left and I want to be respectful of the time. I do want to thank you, Mr. Wilson, for being here, for answering our questions. I I I also will say that I I feel like we spent a significant amount of time talking about the process, talking about explaining how we come to conclusions. I I don't know that I'm fully satisfied on on the exact measurements, metrics, and specifics of what I'm looking for for my constituents to be able to justify um whatever amount of dollars are being allocated for this program.
▶ 1:42:56I would like to have maybe another conversation once we see the list and also be able to understand better uh in in our next conversation specific metrics that you're using and specific results that you can point to of moving the needle in the right direction on this. Again, I think we talked a lot about process, but I would like to see more on results, but I do thank you for your time and the work that you do. Mr. Chairman, I yield
▶ 1:43:18I'd welcome that conversation. I'd love to come see you on that
▶ 1:43:21to the ranking member.
▶ 1:43:22Thank you. Thank you again. I just uh it's my understanding that that for you to get your the the 2025 money that was appropriated by a Congress that you had to go to court for that. Is that
▶ 1:43:37Yes, ma'am.
▶ 1:43:38Okay. 2026 money. Have you gotten that yet or are you having to go to court for
▶ 1:43:44Uh we have not received FY26 yet, but we're engaged in consultations with the
▶ 1:43:49As the Who are you engaged with? uh the state department.
▶ 1:43:54We've had regular interactions with state department.
▶ 1:43:56Why are they telling you what are they telling you why the money's being held
▶ 1:44:01Uh we don't know. Um we don't have uh uh feedback from that yet. Uh but following following the passage of of this committee's uh legislation, the appropriations, um we're actively working to secure FY26 fines.
▶ 1:44:16Well, I think Mr. Chair, that's something that we probably should definitely look into. So, uh, listen again, I want to thank you, you know, to hear these stories and to know what's going on in, uh, the people being political enemies being by their autocratic leaders, mass men going into homes and terrorizing people.
▶ 1:44:44Certainly can understand why so many people are fleeing their their countries. Unfortunately, it sounds very sad because it sounds like a story that's going on here. So, what I want to end today uh this has been a very interesting uh discussion today and I want to thank you for trying to spread democracy throughout the world.
▶ 1:45:07I think that uh one day when we look back to what's going on in America, it will will be look like one of the darkest periods what we're doing to people who've been here in our country living peacefully for 30 years, being part of our economy, raising families, and now just without any due process, just taking grabbing them mass men, unidentified mass men, sending them to detention,
▶ 1:45:37sending them to sometimes to place that they don't know, separating families, disrupting businesses. That's what's going on in the United States of America. and that is wrong. Um I hope uh that we can learn a lesson from Ned and that we could really change this trajectory. Uh but thank you so
▶ 1:46:00Let me again thank the ranking member. Let me just close with a couple of thoughts. First, um as Mr. Suskamani said, we spent a lot of time talking about process. uh it is important that that the the steps that you have taken and uh I'm aware of a number of them to make sure that mistakes don't happen uh and by the way mistakes happen unfortunately the question is how do you react to those mistakes how do you solve
▶ 1:46:30how do you fix that and make sure it doesn't happen again so you know more details on that would be helpful as Mr. Scammani uh said I've had the the I've I've I've been able to get some of those details, but I think it's important that that's made more public about uh what you've done to correct any potential future mistake. Um I will tell you I don't support any group or any organization.
▶ 1:46:57I support accountability, transparency, and the national security interests of the United States. Uh I have found however that NED uh is accountable, has a clear mission and I do know how much we spend on NED and I do know how much we spend on other democracy programs uh from this subcommittee.
▶ 1:47:19I don't know exactly how much China spends to spread their message to influence partners and players and countries. Uh I I would imagine they're probably spending a lot more than we are.
▶ 1:47:36Uh but it's important that we spend whatever we we do effective effectively and efficiently and with accountability. So So I think you play a major role there and your organization plays a major role. But what you've heard today, right, is that this committee wants to make sure that every penny that we spend this ar money is done so with transparency and accountability.
▶ 1:47:57Uh, and so I appreciate what you have done uh to make sure that you spend your money accountably and as transparently as possible. And I appreciate, by the way, that you've always been accessible to Congress and to this subcommittee and know that we're going to continue to hold yours and the Department of State and everybody's feet uh to the fire. Uh, and I look forward to continue to working with you.
▶ 1:48:22Let me now also uh mention that members obviously may submit additional questions for the record. Mr. Wilson, we will continue to work with you. Um we are not apologetic for protecting taxpayer money, but I will tell you that your mission established by Ronald Reagan, supported by this Congress, continues to be as important now as it ever was. uh and we look forward to continuing working with you with that.
▶ 1:48:52Uh unless we hear something else from the ranking member, we will conclude this hearing. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:48:56Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, ranking member. Thank you.