▶ 0:36:56meter rounds per month. While I support this goal, as 155s have proven their value in wartime, I worry about the sustainment of production capacity once the demand and requirements for this munition decreases. We've seen this happen time and time again in the past where we've been on this roller coaster ride where we rebuild weapons stockpiles. Our batteries are then uh able to fire at will and our our magazines are full but then we find ourselves in the same predicament again.
▶ 0:37:26So the question is is how do we sustain this production? [cough] It's imperative that the army responsibly invest in industry partners in production facilities looking at the long term. And I'm eager to hear from the witnesses on the progress of the many modernization projects across the OIB. Most Army ammunition plants and arsenals have technology and processes from World War II.
▶ 0:37:49With supplemental dollars in a 15-year modernization strategy with plans to invest roughly $18 billion across the organic industrial base, I'm optimistic about the Army's efforts to update production technology and facilities with improved production lines boasting flexibility and advanced manufacturing. The OIB will be better positioned for production surges. We must ensure that the billions of dollars we have invested are appropriately spent across facilities.
▶ 0:38:17The modernization of energetics is another key issue within the organic industrial base. Novel energetics can and will increase lethality and range for ordinance, propulsion, and weapon systems, giving the war fighter a greater edge in future fights and ensuring that our technology remains bound uh in technology that puts us ahead of our adversaries. Through industry and academic institutions, we are currently developing improved energetic materials.
▶ 0:38:45The department is still primarily using the same energetic materials from World War II. The historic lack of central management and strategy across the services has delayed the progress of novel energetic integration into weapon systems. I am pleased that finally after last year's hearing, the joint energetic transition office has been established two years after it was enabled in the national defense authorization act.
▶ 0:39:10[snorts] This office will be a key to creating central leadership in advancing energetic innovation and integration, allowing us to catch up with our adversaries both in range and lethality. I'm looking forward to seeing the work they do across the organic industrial base. Today's hearing will explore the many challenges the organic industrial base encounters, including access to a domestic supply chain, antiquated manufacturing processes, and fluctuating requirements.
▶ 0:39:35We will also explore the Army's efforts to scale munition capacity to ensure safety standards for service members and civilians working in the production process are met. And we want to make sure we're investing too in emerging technologies in new facilities to modernize the organic industrial base. With that, I'd like to
▶ 0:39:57uh introduce our witnesses and then turn to our ranking member. Our witnesses today are the Honorable Brett Ingram, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Acquisition Sustainment and Technology, Lieutenant General Chris Mohan, Commanding General Army Material Command, Major General John Ream, Joint Program Executive Officer Armaments and Ammunition, and Commanding General of Pikatini Arsenal. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today. And I turn to my friend and ranking member, Mr. Norcross, for his opening statements.
▶ 0:40:24Thank you, Chairman, and I want to thank the witnesses uh for their time today. look forward to this discussion. Chairman Whitman Bergman, thank you for holding this joint hearing on such an important topic, the modernization of Army's portion of our organic industrial base. Our ammunition plants, arsenals, and depot play a critical role in providing capability and capacity to meet the requirements of the combatant commanders.
▶ 0:40:52These facilities develop and produce the ammunitions, the munitions and weapons that are for war fighters rely on and they repair overhaul our combat systems. Our country could not sustain a large-scale combat operations without the support of these facilities. So very glad that we're spending today on this issue and certainly looking forward to your comments.
▶ 0:41:17But over the last few years, this committee, the tactical air and land forces, we pay particularly close attention to sustaining the modernization of the Army Organic Industrial Base. Anyone who has visited any of these depot, which Rob and I have, it's a time machine. Yeah.
▶ 0:41:36For many of them, it feels like uh we landed in a different century. So, uh, some of their spaces are certainly need repair, upgrades, and safety improvements, and we have a plan. It's how quickly can we get it done. So, for those Americans who work in these facilities, we need to provide the best equipment, a safe a safe work environment because what we've seen improvements over the years, we can send continue to see accidents.
▶ 0:42:05I acknowledge that some of this work is absolutely dangerous work, but we can and must do better. I know we will discuss the investments the Army has made to increase capacity and the capabilities of our facilities, but I'd like to hear about investments and procedural changes that the Army has made to improve safety at these facilities and drive down mishaps.
▶ 0:42:29I recognize the topic is squarely in the lane of our friends from the readiness committee, but it is a topic that I paid close attention to and I cannot think of a better forum than this to discuss it. Second, the modernization and expansion. The war in Ukraine helped us identify shortfalls in our organic munition production facilities. In many ways, this is our own fault by historically using munition accounts as bill payers for other high priority accounts.
▶ 0:43:00But over the last few years, the department and Congress have worked collaboratively to reverse the course, resulting billion dollars of investment into our ammunition and production facilities. In some cases, these investments resulted in modernization to existing facilities. and others. We've expanded the organic industrial base by creating entirely new facilities. In a perfect world, these two types of investment would not compete with each other.
▶ 0:43:29However, the Army is now forecasting that we may not realize the full expanded capacity and that instead settle for a lower sustainment rate. This creates a problem, especially with the 155 artillery rounds. We're building a new facility in Mosquite, Texas.
▶ 0:43:49Yet, short of a largecale war, high demand from foreign partners and allies will likely never achieve the production rates that would utilize this capacity. So, I ask the witnesses to address the problem in such a way that it doesn't pull work away from our existing facilities.
▶ 0:44:08I'll ask the witnesses today to address this concern for a coherent plan for those facilities and show that we will optimally utilize that we don't compete with each other. Lastly, I remain concerned that ourselves into a boom bus cycle. Those sine waves that we've talked so many times before. Billions of dollars of investments over the last few years are helpful, but it added capacity and then it would be wasted if the demand never materializes.
▶ 0:44:39Those sustained conflict or external demand through foreign material sales. I returned to the 155 to talk about these shells since we're such a good example. The department initially planned 100,000 rounds per month, now forecast a much lower rate. We modernized and expanded the base to achieve that high number. And in some cases, our industry partners made internal investments to help.
▶ 0:45:07If we never realize this capacity, that all happens to our investments, both private and public. What happens to the facilities and the companies that hired additional workers to achieve these We need to find out the staining rate. what will be the production we're looking for. In closing, this hearing focuses on an extremely important topic.
▶ 0:45:31Very much look forward to discussion and like to again thank Chairman Whitman Bergman for holding this committee
▶ 0:45:38I thank the gentleman from New Jersey, our ranking member, Mr. Norcross, and now turn to the gentleman from Michigan, the chairman of the readiness subcommittee, Chairman Bergman.
▶ 0:45:48Thank you, Chairman Whitman. I appreciate you for recognizing me for this and particularly pleased to be working with you uh ranking member Gar Mendy, ranking member Norcross on discussing army's organic industrial base. The organic industrial base is the heart of our army's ability to generate combat power and any inadequacies in the industrial base directly impact the mission capable rates of our ground forces.
▶ 0:46:17Unfortunately, Army's readiness trends over the last decade are particularly troubling. Since 2015, almost all Army vehicles experience declines in mission capable rates. Additionally, Army's maintenance costs are increasing with an average cost increase of over 50%.
▶ 0:46:39According to GAO, the lack of parts and challenges related to technical data negatively affected the availability and costs of the entire ground forces. These declining mission capability rates and increasing costs are directly related to an underperforming acquisition system.
▶ 0:46:59Our inability to adequately secure the parts and determine the technical data rights at the beginning of our acquisition process undermine the ability of our organic industrial base to adequately maintain our ground vehicle fleet. Additionally, I think that we are sitting on the precipice of a new dawn where advanced manufacturing revolutionizes our vehicle maintenance approach.
▶ 0:47:25I'm not confident that our military is pacing with the commercial sector in delivering timely and costefficient products. As to the army's organic industrial base to generate munitions capacity, our army arsenals stand at the epicenter. I think using our arsenal's ability to assemble and build munitions necessary for our combat forces and maintain excess capacity in times of need is a good model to maintain operational readiness.
▶ 0:47:54I also think that the organic industrial base needs to be utilized before additional commercial options are pursued. This is why I am particularly surprised that we continue to sustain foreign munition manufacturers when idled American capacity is available to support munitions production. We need to be more realistic as to our nation's munitions goals and build capacity to meet our needs in times of conflict.
▶ 0:48:22At the same time, it is important that our partners and allies also retain sufficient capacity to support their needs. It is hard for me to understand why the United States should size our industrial base to meet an apathetic international consortium that has the time but lacks the will to make strategic investments to support their own national security interests.
▶ 0:48:47There is much we need to do to better align our industrial base for the future and I look forward to working with the administration, our esteemed witnesses to make this a reality. I appreciate Chairman Wittman's support. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 0:49:03I thank the gentleman from Michigan for his opening statement. Chairman Bergman, thank you. Now turn to the gentleman from California, the ranking member, ranking member Gar Mendy. Uh thank you chairman Whitman and ranking member Norcross and of course my colleague Jack Bergman for your partnership and leadership on issues affecting the organic industrial base and want to thank our witnesses.
▶ 0:49:27Uh had a conversation earlier my three-letter question why will probably be repeated here. Uh the war in Ukraine demonstrated both the strength in the gaps and the ability of the organic industrial base to surge in response to a conflict. However, many of those gaps are not new. They're the result of decades of inconsistent and insufficient investment. Much of the uh organic industrial-based infrastructure dates back to World War II.
▶ 0:49:57The state of these facilities impacts the ability of the workforce to reset equipment, sustain combat systems, and ensure that the war fighter has what they need when they need it. If we are serious about readiness and about supporting the soldiers in the field, we must be equally serious about modernizing the facilities that sustain them. To the Army's credit, it has developed a 15-year plan to invest 18 billion in modernizing the organic industrial base.
▶ 0:50:25I look forward to receiving more details about this plan, including how the fiscal year 27 budget reflects this commitment. Modernization is not just about facilities, it's about people. There are over 16,000 skilled artisans working across the organic industrial base.
▶ 0:50:43Over the past year, this committee has heard concerns that resignation programs, hiring freezes, reductions in permanent positions have strained depo capacity to perform the critical ground vehicle maintenance and overhauls. The modernization plan must be driven by validated workload requirements and measurable measurable readiness outcomes, not arbitrary workforce reductions.
▶ 0:51:09The army needs a deliberate workforce strategy that recruits, trains, and retains the skilled employees required to sustain the force over the long term. Lastly, one of my favorite issues is the issue of technical rights. Across the services, limited access to technical data has restricted the ability to maintain taxpayer funded weapons systems.
▶ 0:51:34For the army, restricted access to technical data has been a significant contributor to declining mission capable rates of its ground vehicle fleet. This combined with supply chains issue in getting the critical parts needed is why maintenance costs have increased while mission capabilities have decreased over the decade.
▶ 0:51:56As we work towards the fiscal 27 budget, I look forward to seeing how the army's modernization plan will increase mission capable rates, sustain the workforce, incorporate the rights to technical data to perform maintenance on our assets.
▶ 0:52:11I'm going to end with just one short uh couple of sentences and that is over the last 16 years as I've looked at this readiness issue uh in all of the departments it all comes back to getting worse rather than better and I want to ask the question why is there a a problem of the way in which we work our way through these issues?
▶ 0:52:38uh we can take one issue at a time and push it forward, but ultimately we're not really making the progress we need in your $18 billion 15-year program. Maybe you're asking the qu you're answering the question why. If so, I'd like to hear it. With that, I yield back.
▶ 0:52:56I thank the gentleman from California, Ranking Member Gendy. We'll now go to our witnesses. I understand that Assistant Secretary Ingram and Lieutenant General Mohan will do the opening statements. So, Assistant Secretary Ingram, we'll begin with you.
▶ 0:53:09Chairman Whitman, Chairman Bergman, Ranking Member Norcross, Ranking Member Garam Mande, distinguished members of the House Aar Services Subcommittees on Tactical, Air and Land Forces and Readiness. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the Army's progress in modernizing the organic industrial base to ensure the highest state of readiness and sustain peace through strength. It is an honor to testify b before you for the first time as the assistant secretary of the army for acquisition logistics and technology.
▶ 0:53:38I'm pleased to be joined by Lieutenant General Mohan, Major General Ry, who are integral members of the Army team. We appreciate your inclusion of our written statement in today's record for the hearing. The Army's organic industrial base serves as the backs stop, the last line of defense for our nation, providing surge capability and functioning as a critical national asset.
▶ 0:53:57These facilities play a vital role in depot level maintenance, munitions production, and strategic Congress's support has been instrumental in advancing the modernization of the organic industrial base, including provisions in the fiscal year 2026 National Defense Authorization Act. We look forward to continuing our collaboration with this committee to implement the NDAA and achieve sustainable modernization across the Despite its critical role, the OIB faces significant challenges.
▶ 0:54:26First, fluctuating workloads where unpredictable production cycles disrupt schedules, increase costs, and hinder workforce planning. High operating rates where indirect costs drive up operating rates, reduce competitiveness with commercial industry. An aging infrastructure where outdated facilities limit efficiency and the ability to support advanced technologies and workforce skill gaps where the need for specialized skills and advanced manufacturing and technology remains a pressing issue. We recognize these challenges and are actively addressing them.
▶ 0:54:57The army is focused on increasing direct labor hours, fostering public private partnerships, and reducing indirect cost to ensure long-term sustainabil sustainability of the OIB. One of the ways we're tackling these challenges is by leveraging modern data and analytic tools. Those tools allow the Army to automate and synthesize readiness data across multiple weapon systems and units, enabling more informed resourcing decisions. I want to highlight two examples. First is weapons 360.
▶ 0:55:25It's a revolutionary tool that compi that compiles live readiness data across the army and then as live which is a platform that houses live acquisition data pro providing visibility into risks and challenges at all echelons. These tools are transforming how the army understands its data and communicates its needs. We invite you and your staff to explore these capabilities firsthand. The Army has taken significant steps to modernize its manufacturing capabilities.
▶ 0:55:52Recently, we released a commercial solutions opening to accelerate advanced manufacturing initiatives at Red River Army Dep Depot. This effort aims to modernize traditional manufacturing methods and produce new weapon system capabilities such as unmanned aircraft systems and components and robotic platforms. The response from industry has been robust offering innovative proposals that include government owned, contracted operated, government owned, government operated, enhanced use leases, private public partnerships, number of efforts.
▶ 0:56:23These initiatives will upscale the workforce, reduce indirect costs, bring private capital and new jobs to the OIB sites. They target key areas such as traditional metal and plastic components, propellants, precursor chemicals, and ammunition to reduce supply chain vulnerabilities and ensure missing mission success. In alignment with our modernization strategy, the Army recently announced the selection of an industry partner for an enhanced use lease at Pineluff Arsenal.
▶ 0:56:52The this partnership will utilize approximately a thousand acres of the installation to produce critical energetic materials, significantly strengthening the US domestic defense industrial base. This initiative represents a $ 1.3 billion industry investment in a new energetics facility, underscoring the army's commitment to modernizing UIB and leveraging public private partnerships to achieve readiness goals and support keys and partners.
▶ 0:57:17When I testified during my confirmation hearing, I committed to modernizing the OIB as a matter of national security. In just four months, we made significant process progress, including securing the Pineluff enhanced use lease, the advanced manufacturing uh efforts at Red River Army Dep Depot. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The partnership between Lieutenant General Mohan, the commander of Army Material Command, and myself has never been stronger. Together, we are driving change and delivering results.
▶ 0:57:45Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the army's organic industrial base and for your unwavering support to our soldiers, civilian, and their families. Look forward to answering your questions today and continuing our collaboration to asssure the armies can achieve readiness and modernization goals.
▶ 0:58:00Assistant Secretary Ingram, thank you so much. We're no to Lieutenant General
▶ 0:58:06Chairman Whitman, Chairman Bergman, Ranking Member Norcross, Ranking Member Garam Mindy, and distinguished members of the subcommittees. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Army's organic industrial base. We appreciate the subcommittee's shared commitment to the OIB. The Army's OIB, 23 governmentowned manufacturing arsenals, maintenance depots, and ammun ammunition plants are a critical subcomponent of the defense industrial base. The OIB not only supports operational readiness for current operation, but it preserves the nation's ability to surge during conflict.
▶ 0:58:36As a governmentcont controlled capability, the OIB provides strategic depth and fills production gaps while industry scales to meet wartime demand. Although many facilities have been modernized since their World War II origins, too much of the OIB still relies upon aging infrastructure, legacy equipment, and outdated processes. Combined with fluctuating workload tied to operational tempo, these challenges now demand decisive action.
▶ 0:59:00In November of 2025, the Army Material Command delivered a report to Army senior leaders that among other things considered every policy, regulation, statute, and business process impacting the health and viability of the OIB. The comprehensive review assessed each OIB site and offered concrete recommendations to address OIB challenges.
▶ 0:59:21Among the key issues were the need to reform to balance steady state and surge capacities, improve readiness, improve efficiency, and expand industry partnerships to stabilize revenue, particularly during peace time when workload traditionally declines. With strong senior leader support, we are moving quickly on near-term actions to strengthen the OIB.
▶ 0:59:44This includes the development of an OIB transformation implementation plan which will incorporate the ongoing OIB modernization plan that has included $5 billion in investments at OIB sites over the past three fiscal years alone. We appreciate Congress's continued support for the OIB uh modernization plan. The OIB transformation plan will carry that momentum, but it'll look broader than our own internal investments into the modernization of facilities and lines.
▶ 1:00:11It will explore innovative opportunities to increase partnerships with industry through enhanced use leases such as the one at Pine Bluff Arsenal, innovation hubs, and non-traditional public private partnerships while still maximizing traditional P3 models. In conjunction with with the ASAT, we have established also establish an OIB integration cell in the Pentagon to ensure our governmentowned facilities are considered upfront in acquisition decisions.
▶ 1:00:38The OIB integration cell will better synchronize OIB capabilities with the acquisition program executives and Army requirements, conduct long-term OIB planning, and accelerate OIB transformation and modernization efforts. Integrated in all of our efforts is our focus on Army readiness. We've we've made great strides in expanding advanced manufacturing capabilities across our OIB sites.
▶ 1:01:00Rock Island Arsenal, the joint manufacturing and technology center remains the center of excellence, home to our digital repository and the bulk of our advanced manufacturer of capacity, but distributed capabilities, automation and machine learning across CIB will enable the rapid flexible production and repair required at the speed of war.
▶ 1:01:19Finally, our operational readiness program or OP brings depo maintenance capability directly to the war fighter and extending the reach and power of the OIB globally connecting the OIB to tactical edge. We have put three heavy armor BCTs through this OIP OP program and we're having tangible effects with increased unit readiness, maintainer proficiency, and a reduction of repair parts required during operational deployments.
▶ 1:01:47As a former depo commander and now the commander of army material command who I'm responsible for the operation of of the army's OIB. I am personally committed to ensuring the Army OIB remains a viable, responsive and essential component of the defense industrial base. Investment in the OIB is an investment in our national security and defense. Thank you so much for your continued support. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:02:10Lieutenant General Mohan, thanks so much. We'll go to our witnesses now with some questions. Uh, Assistant Secretary Ingram, Major General Ree, I want to begin with the effort the Army undertook to uh, reconfigure and reconstitute its capability and capacity to produce 155 Howard surrounds.
▶ 1:02:30Uh, ranking member Norcross and I had a chance to visit Mosqu, Texas at a time where there was lots of excitement about the concept of a cocoa, contractor-owned, contractor operated entity building a facility producing large numbers of rounds very quickly. So we were uh impressed with the speed at which things were happening there. Uh we are now two years later and the facility has yet to produce a single uh projectile for 155 or any other artillery for that matter or mortar round.
▶ 1:03:00Uh that puts us in a situation today to ask uh where are we going with that facility? The army had put out there a 100,000 round annual production rate. Are we still at that particular point? Are we still going to be looking to add production capability to get to 100,000 rounds annually? And if we are, how do we sustain that rate? What's happened before is we fill our weapons magazines. We have no other room. And then we say, guess what?
▶ 1:03:29We're going to reduce production instead of looking at other ways to partner with allies to make sure that their weapons magazines are full. to look at more aggressive training where we're firing more rounds to make sure we continue to to have a demand cycle that sustains that. All those things are part of that. So, if you could uh shed some light on us about where we are with mosqu the mosqu facility, the 100,000 uh projection and where we are with continuing to build the industrial base.
▶ 1:03:58Chairman, thank you for the question. Um, first let me start by saying I'm not happy with where we are at Mosqu either, right? So I'm in the same boat you are. Um so I'll talk about mosqu in a second. As far as the the 100,000 uh capacity that we were trying to reach. Uh I agree boom to bust is a real thing. We've seen it in every major con following every major conflict following World War II, right? It doesn't matter where it is. We've gone boom to bust on every single munition.
▶ 1:04:24And so as we ensure that we've got enough capacity to support what the US Army needs uh along with sort of the extended demand signal we continue to see from allies and partners uh we are still shooting for that 100,000 goal. We're still trying to get there. Um so now back to specifically what's happening at Mosquite.
▶ 1:04:45uh you know if you go back to 2022 with the Russian invasion on Ukraine uh in the use of 155 you know we're at 14,000 a month uh we're now pushing north of 56,000 a month so we've seen a significant increase and um that's important to highlight that that's more than just the metal parts they make at Mosquite right that's been into everything that goes into building a 155 right so that's the metal parts the load assembly of pack the charges the fuses everything that goes into that so we've seen a significant scale ing up of all
▶ 1:05:15of those capabilities over the last few Mosquite uh was uh there was risk taken right when we uh loaded the did the mosquite uh project risk from the technology of the assembly line the the production line that that was installed. uh but at that time there was agreed upon we would take both risk on the government and and contractor side to deliver on a sort of capability
▶ 1:05:44and so um we are currently in the middle of so I guess to to put it clearly the stop work is still in place
▶ 1:05:51we are currently in negotiation with general dynamics about what the future of that looks like uh and I anticipate you will see uh an investment from the company themselves uh from the industry partner themselves to ensure they can continue to to build out for that facility that would make rounds that would primarily be supported by the FMS the foreign materials demand that we currently have. But we are currently in negotiation what that looks like both from a from a line perspective, a quantity perspective.
▶ 1:06:22Um and and hopefully we'll have that wrapped up
▶ 1:06:26But I'll pause there and turn over to General Ry if he has anything else he'd like to add to that.
▶ 1:06:30General Ryan,
▶ 1:06:33Mr. Chairman, I I I share your same concerns of where we're at with Mosquite, but uh let me first just say, you know, thank you for your continued support and advocacy.
▶ 1:06:43You know, the authorities and the resourcing that enabled us to get after this 100,000, you know, per month mandate have been uh you know, instrumental to the progress we've made. I It's a historic level of funding that we've received, you know, to the likes we haven't seen since World War II.
▶ 1:06:59Yeah. and uh the investments we've made uh you know both in terms of advanced manufacturing capability adding resilience um improving workforce safety with the modernization efforts is critically important.
▶ 1:07:19So when we kicked off this surge, it was with a lot of the 1940s aging infrastructure and it really forces a look at, you know, other forces to reach some of this capacity. And so when you think of a 155, right, we've got a fuse, we've got, you know, a metal projectile, we've got an energetic fill, we've got a propelling charge and a primer. And so we made investments uh to to add, you know, second and third sources in some cases to get to this number.
▶ 1:07:48Uh I think the beauty of that is is that those um investments, you know, are bringing advanced manufacturing, automation, all the things are going to add resilience, are going to improve workforce safety with some of our facilities. And so you look at line 3A, you know, down in Iowa as an example, and that's been in continuous operation since 1940.
▶ 1:08:09We just awarded a contract this past fall for a future artillery center that's going to be uh you know probably the most advanced meltpour operation where we load uh artillery projectiles. Um new 68 facility. No one could remember where the last time we built anything new at Lake City. The answer was 26th December 1940. They found it in Harry S. Truman's presidential library. It's the last time we built anything new.
▶ 1:08:34And so, um, we certainly appreciate, you know, all the support going forward and look forward to continue working with you because a lot of those investments were very targeted towards 155 and there's a lot more to the conventional munition space than just artillery.
▶ 1:08:49Yeah, there's there's a lot lot more left to do and we appreciate uh the army being willing to take risks and we've said this plain uh plainly and clearly that is take risks but if you're going to fail, fail quickly. Make sure you take away lessons from that. make sure we recover as much of the resources that we've expended there. Make sure too that we have partners that are willing to share in the risk. I think that's key with this uh Mosqu facility.
▶ 1:09:10And listen, I understand uh folks not wanting to say, "Oh, that was a failure." But I but I want to make sure that if if there's if there's not a clear and quick path to recovering there, that we're not afraid to say, "Hey, sorry. We're going to move on. We learned something from that. We spent some money, but let's let's move on to the next stop in in that effort." Let me ask one other uh real quick question about uh about novela energetics. You know, we talk about being cast in the past as far as our weapons production capability. We are still there when it comes to weapons chemistry.
▶ 1:09:41You know, we are using two weapons uh compounds both for explosives and propellants that go back to World War II, RDX and HMX. Uh and we developed the more more uh modern novel energetics in CL20. And our adversaries use as their metric CL20, we use as our metric the substances that are developed in 1940.
▶ 1:10:05So when we ask the question, why are the Chinese uh having more success in range and lethality and they're using the weapons chemistry that we developed and we wonder why we're getting outst of energetics so we can look at that and modernize these weapons platforms.
▶ 1:10:27I want to get a perspective from you all about how you think the joint uh energetics uh office is going to operate and what will it do to quickly modernize existing weapon systems and look at modern energetics for future weapon systems. We know initially there's been a lot of success there. That shouldn't be surprising since CL uh 20 CL stands for China Lake. We actually develop this stuff and then we we allow the Chinese to to steal it and use it against us. Just doesn't make sense.
▶ 1:10:56So give me a pathway forward where we're going to be using novel energetics to get back in the business of range and lethality.
▶ 1:11:06So chairman uh I don't disagree that uh we need to continue to figure out how to get better energetics in most of our weapon systems and so I I agree with you the fact that the the Jetto office will hopefully be the siding guiding light for that for the department as we continue to move forward. While that is being stood up, the army has not waited. the armies continue to move.
▶ 1:11:27We got three projects right now where we are integrating CL20 into three different weapons to prove out how well or how the weapon design will have to change to successfully use those materials. And so those are going to lead to a variety of tests that are occurring uh later this year. Uh but but absolutely moving out.
▶ 1:11:45uh we see other areas uh that we think uh we can uh CL20 will bring uh uh better uh uh capabilities for us whether that's longer range munitions where weight is becomes a becomes a challenge. Think everything from oneway attack UAS to longer range munitions. We also see it in small UAS where you have small UAS that can't carry a lot of payload and so to get a bigger bang for the for the buck with the payload.
▶ 1:12:11Um and so uh absolutely as a as a prior uh naval weapons system uh engineer understand what we do at the labs and where that was created and there's lots of capabilities like that that we have within our labs that we need to continue to bring to the forefront and we see the Jetto office as sort of leading that charge for us.
▶ 1:12:27That's great. Thank you for doing that. There's a lot of capability out there that happens at our labs. that happens at uh a lot of places where some great research is done like DARPA and others unfortunately gets put on the shelf because they're not allowed to be uh advocates for their products and they can't go out and actively find customers. We have to find a way to close that gap too because I think if a lot of people out there in the in the combat space knew these things were available, they would be [laughter] the biggest advocates to put them in their arsenal. So with that, I'll turn to my colleague Mr.
▶ 1:12:56Norcra for for his questions. And with that, Mr. Thor
▶ 1:13:01Thank you chairman. Um we've heard repeatedly the sect staff talk about sending the demand signals to the industry so that they can react appropriately in the relevance of time. So first question uh goes to you assistant secretary Ingram. We've talked about the 100,000 round goal per month on 155s.
▶ 1:13:29I believe you said we are still looking to make that goal. So a for what period of time because it goes directly to the question of sending the signals. Great. 100,000 we made two months and we're backing off. How long do you anticipate in rough numbers that 100,000 goal?
▶ 1:13:53So I so that number for year for from a US perspective, right? Um, like I said, boom to bust is real, right? We are uh we are getting closer and closer to coming up to our to our tamers, to our sort of uh readiness numbers that we need back for for 155 for uh conventional shells, right? We have, but we're not there yet. Uh we also know that there's still a demand uh from a number of our uh allies and partners that are out there.
▶ 1:14:21And so I I do not see us backing off from that number for for a few years yet. Okay, good news. You you mentioned the different parts for the 155s and we talked about Mosqu as being the metal. Where is the choke point right now on the uh building of each shell? Is it the metal, the energetics? Where are we?
▶ 1:14:49I'm gonna let General Ry cover that. He's closer to the day-to-day operations of the shell. Congress two areas um for the 100,000 number you know early on metal parts was the limb fact you know was driving um you know the focus of our efforts and so you know we had a uh kind of phased of approach you know we had the mission to produce as many as humanly possible on on day one and existing facilities in parallel we were making
▶ 1:15:19investments to bring other sources online you know we've been successful with IMT in Canada you just uh right before the holidays we had successfully did first article test and they're in in production. Um, you know, we all know about Mosquet and it's not uh, you know, where we want, but we've also invested heavily in Scranton and and you know that that's a tough challenge to produce at max capacity while doing targeted modernization.
▶ 1:15:46And I would tell you that, you know, Scranton is unrecognizable from when you were out there most recently, you know, visiting the the facility. Um, you know, all the old 5 in all the old M107 equipment's out. There's new floors, there's new lights, new parking lot. We refurbished the crane. We've got our new go to war rounds, the 1128, 1113 lines going in. It is completely different. Um, you know, later this summer, we'll realize, you know, kind of phase two of the expansion at Scranton will be at 35,000.
▶ 1:16:17The sister, you know, commercial operation right there in Wils Bar, you know, that's 21,000. We'll be at 56,000. So, uh, I think we'll be in a good spot there. What what what concerns me now is energetics and some of the fragility with supply chain in particular and some of our dependencies on international sourcing in some cases adversarial sourcing and the team's worked really hard there you know one um to see ourselves you know we've got a a really fantastic assured missions team as we like to say
▶ 1:16:48we can see ourselves from the ground to the round and that's driven a lot of uh you know here near-term investments with other international partners partners while we look to leverage authorities like the defense production act to onshore critical capabilities things like TNT um antimony or uh you know I think recent examples that are going to make it make a difference okay so mosquite we talked about it and the equipment that was
▶ 1:17:18envisioned to be able to produce the 155s and others apparently is not operating as we expected. Are we at the point that we're going to throw in the talon, the equipment, and refit it to the likes of Scranton?
▶ 1:17:37So, we're in negotiations right now with General Dynamics. Um, you know,
▶ 1:17:42Okay, got that.
▶ 1:17:44When do Can you share with us when we expect that we'll be able to get the 155s? Give me a quarter, last quarter of this year beginning. We're just trying to get an idea after two plus years. How close are we getting?
▶ 1:18:02So, in terms of delivery apart, I I don't think we're that close. In terms of a plan of what a rescoped mosquite would look like, I think we'll see that here very quickly.
▶ 1:18:12Okay. Um, I yield back.
▶ 1:18:20Okay. Okay, I guess since it's uh I'm going to recognize myself then. All right. Um, first of all, uh, Ingraham or Ingram.
▶ 1:18:31Ingraham. Mohan or Mohan.
▶ 1:18:34It's Mohan, sir.
▶ 1:18:35Mohan. All right. You know, kind of hooked on phonics here. Uh, General Mohan. Inadequate supply resources at a misaligned organic industrial base continue, as I mentioned in my earlier remarks, a low mission capability rate.
▶ 1:18:56Can you better explain why this is occurring and describe for us your plan to rapidly increase our readiness to better meet program design standards?
▶ 1:19:08Yes sir, and thank you for the question. So I I would say to the why we are uh where we are right now um I can't speak uh particularly to the the uh decisions that were made between are we going to modernize and buy new stuff or are we going to sustain the uh the current fleet that we have. What I can tell you is is the way that that we are attacking the problem and and army material command of particularly um those units that that are under the highest stress.
▶ 1:19:36And so our biggest consumers right now are our heavy BCTs, our armor brigade combat teams. They consume the most maintenance capability. They consume the most class 9. Um, and so what we've done is with our operational readiness program, instead of taking a fleetbased view, because quite frankly, some of our worst vehicles will wash out in at the size of our fleets, we've started looking at a unit-based view, synchronizing the capability that we have with uh with the timelines uh and the train up of a division commander and and doing
▶ 1:20:06several things. one uh we uh apply a heavy depo maintenance teams, export them from Aniston and Red River down to the unit's motorpool to help the unit see themselves. Then we harvest the worst of their vehicles, the ones that are consuming the most man-hour, the ones that are consuming the most class 9 or maint repair parts, and we give them new ones that are coming off the depo production line.
▶ 1:20:30Um and then finally we follow that unit through their deployment um with with depo maintenance capability and we're seeing great results. And so so for example um first brigade first armored division is is um our latest OP candidate um they just loaded the boat to go to Europe and they loaded at with one of the legacy one of our oldest equipment fleets. They they loaded the boat um at the highest readiness rate of any ABCT in the army. So, we know it works.
▶ 1:21:01Um, the last rotation that went through during their their nine-month rotation in Europe consumed $30 million less in class 9 in repair parts than and maintained a higher readiness rate. So, in the future, we look to double down on that and instead of doing a smaller subset of harvesting of vehicles, we're going to expand that by three-fold because the process is working. The second one is I would pull the thread on is advanced manufacturing. Um so so it's not only access to tech data, it's access to digitized tech data that we're after.
▶ 1:21:31So if you go to um one of our our academia partners, the National Institute for Avionics Research, you'll see a B1 bomber. You'll see, you know, all fixedwing fighter jets. You'll also see an M88 that is over sitting in the corner and they're taking apart and digitizing uh every part on that um so that we can digitize it and use it for advanced manufacturing.
▶ 1:21:52And we are we are exploding that capability across the um across the army um across our organic industrial base and down at unit levels connecting it all in a uh digital repository and a connected network of capability that uh that is powered by by um data that says here are the parts that we need to produce and then we produce those parts um in different places across to ch to to solve the challenge that we're having with readiness rates all the while putting pressure on
▶ 1:22:23uh our industry partners who owe us right now over $500 million worth of delinquent back orders of repair parts so that we are putting pressure on them to produce and to deliver the parts that we have we have ordered.
▶ 1:22:36Thank you. Uh honor honorable Ingraham. Boy, that's a mouthful. There's a lot of syllables in there. What steps is the army taking to ensure that digital twin technologies and advanced manufacturing uh early in the acquisition process uh with those areas to ensure that we can adequately maintain our ground vehicles. You know, we General Mohan kind of talked about it a little bit, but you want to put a little more meat on the bone?
▶ 1:23:06Absolutely, Chairman. Uh appreciate that. Uh you know, absolutely. So first of all, competition drives a lot of that right up front, right? So as we get more competition into the acquisition process, that's driving a lot more commercial products uh in in ability to uh to get after a number of those areas where we don't have the technical data rights. The second piece of that I'll talk to, you know, is is really asking for the right technical data upfront. Right?
▶ 1:23:33We have uh had the approach across the government for many of years to ask for it all. Right? We want it all. we don't need it all. There are certain aspects of the technical data we need. Those are we need to ensure we're asking for the right technical data up front uh is is a key piece of that. Uh the second thing is General Mohan talked about it, right? Uh we have gotten technical data from industry in the past uh when we have either bought it or negotiated upfront in some of our acquisition strategies.
▶ 1:24:01Um and then we had no place to put that technical data. it resides on CDs or uh you know somebody's computer somewhere and so having an infrastructure that allows us to have that data in one place that allows access to that data from uh you know an echelon right so if the if the unit on the front line wants to be able to 3D print a part because they got a 3D printer they should be able to have access to that data just as easy as you know General Mohan and each one of the depots has access to that data so building out that network and that data infrastructure
▶ 1:24:31is critical and those are a couple of areas we're working on to ensure that uh we have the right IP, the right data and can actually sustain our
▶ 1:24:39Okay. Thanks. Um General Mohan, uh as we look to the future and note the need to transform our tactical vehicle fleet, we know that we will be maintaining a number of Humvees and the Enduring Fleet, approximately 70,000 is what we've heard.
▶ 1:24:55To that end, we know that the organic industrial base played a critical role maintaining, modifying, and upgrading uh those vehicles to not only address the current missions, but also to ensure the safety of of our all of our soldiers. We note that the continuation of the rollover mitigation in your spend plan, uh which we applaud, it's because safety is the number one priority.
▶ 1:25:23What else do you envision for the tactical wheeled veh tactical wheeled vehicles that ensure our ground platforms maintain top levels of readiness in the future?
▶ 1:25:33Yeah, I I think there's a couple of things. One is to to continue to uh to install analog brake kits and uh in the Humvees the Humvees that we need. Um and so that work is ongoing at Red River Army Depot. as well as as we do um modifications working with our our ASAT partners, cutting into the line um uh things like for for um uh for HIMT tankers for example um cutting into the line those safety uh modifications like for example rollover mitigation that will automatically
▶ 1:26:04um shut off the fuel uh the fuel tank uh system that is uh required in in Europe. Um we're doing those modifications um as well as anti-lock brakes and while we're doing the same thing preparing them for autonomous driving. Um so there are certain things for autonomous operation that are required um electronic steering steering controls electronic traction those are being cut into uh new production lines as well as when we do rebuilds for example.
▶ 1:26:32Okay. Thank you. I yield back Mr. I want to thank my colleagues for raising the energetics issue and really uh honing in on that. Obviously very very important. It's an issue that I could have spent time on but they did a much better job.
▶ 1:27:00the I do want to go to the uh the readiness of the army uh Uh an ongoing an increasing problem. Uh all of the data indicates that it's getting worse, not better. Uh you spoke generally mine a moment ago about some of the things that you're doing.
▶ 1:27:20Uh here's what I think we need and that is to get down into the weeds with you and look at your um data flow uh and the the uh information that you're gathering over time, uh implementation of the various um initiatives that you're putting in place and the success or failure of them.
▶ 1:27:49I really think that we have to spend our time and demand of you a at least a quarterly report on what's going on. First, what your initiatives are, what their goal is, and then um a mechanism to um assess the success of those initiatives. I'm not going to put myself in the middle of of that effort other than I want to see the uh success or failure over time of the specific initiatives that you put in place.
▶ 1:28:19You spoke to them a moment ago. Can you do
▶ 1:28:25I'd like to add a little bit to um uh it uh sir, it comes back to the um uh also the harvesting of the of the data. Um so we started weapon system 360 uh about 18 months ago because we were struggling with the supply chain and we really couldn't see ourselves and um and the capability that uh that has been that has been largely developed by by um uh our teams um it continues to uh to continues to advance and now because we've placed that in the army data platform
▶ 1:28:56we are hooking other things to it adding additional layers to that data and so in the very near future we will roll out a um an application um that will integrate in with NextG C2 which will change the way that that our our soldiers do basic maintenance operations.
▶ 1:29:13And so when we get better data at that at that basic level, that will feed into weapons 360, which will then allow us to make strategic decisions both in the depots with um with uh planning of workload, but also um in with the way that we make decisions about buying or manufacturing our own parts.
▶ 1:29:35What you intend to do is the right thing to do. I believe it's necessary for us to learn precisely what it is you're trying to do and what effect you expect from that action and then through time and I'm going quarterly um report to yourself and to us how it's going. Uh in that way you'll know whether you're on a successful track or not.
▶ 1:30:04uh you're talking a lot about uh additive manufacturing and uh all of that. It's the new bright shiny thing that everybody talks about. Uh and the question is what are you going to use it for? Uh is it cheaper, faster or better than giving I don't know Lockheed Martin and BAE a swift kick and say let's get this done. So anyway, it is the data and the specificity of the data to the goals that you have set.
▶ 1:30:34I'm not disagreeing at all with your goals. They're good. You got to come down in the detail, gather the data, report to yourself and to us how it's going and we'll go from there. Um there are many many issues in your what do you got 11 different vehicles that you're trying to keep going. I I think some of it has to do with um attitude. I had an experience over the weekend. We were shipping some cattle.
▶ 1:31:02The truck came back, flat tire, last of the day, and um my grandchildren said, "We'll deal with that later." And I'm going, "Uh-uh. You're going to deal with it tonight because we may need this thing tomorrow." Well, we don't we don't know that we need it tomorrow. And so, um I don't know if they've learned the lesson or not. I haven't had a chance to go back and check my data.
▶ 1:31:24So anyway, uh it it flows through the entire system and included in that is all of the new bright shiny things that you're dealing with. Are they really useful? I spoke earlier to the question of why. Why are you doing that? Why are you doing it this way or that way? I you have the information. It's your job. It's our job to review it and say I don't think that's working. I want to make a final point and then I'll turn it back to to my colleague.
▶ 1:31:54Um I'm concerned about the quality of the contracts that the Department of Defense is writing with the defense industrial base. Uh we've spent part of this morning looking at some of those contracts and finding that we're being taken to the cleaners. We the taxpayers, the Department of Defense, military, various places.
▶ 1:32:19uh that the contracts do not serve the purpose for which they are written but rather serve the purpose of the defense industrial base in its effort to grow or to be profitable whatever goals we may have.
▶ 1:32:34Um, I'm coming to the point where we have absolutely really good good people in the various departments that write but they're not on top of the most recent problems that are found in contracts are able to really get beyond what they have done so many times over many, many years.
▶ 1:32:56And it may very well be in our interest, ours and yours, to u bring into the major contracting and quite possibly into some of what you might call minor contracting a fresh from a a company, a firm, a law firm, whomever. They're working for you.
▶ 1:33:18And their task is that that contract carries out the specific goals that you have inunciated as you set in motion a contract. Uh we've I found this problem too many times in too many areas. The final 276 pages none of the rest counts unless we want to do it. So I want to uh I want to think about that. I want you to think about it.
▶ 1:33:46Maybe my colleagues would be interested in it also. But uh these contracts are written for the all too often for the benefit of the defense industrial base and not necessarily to protect the goals and the necessity in this case the army and the other departments. With that I yield back sir.
▶ 1:34:07Gentleman yields. I recognize myself for questioning. Gentlemen thank you for being here this afternoon. This is this is troubling. This is a troubling discussion our projection of force worldwide a level of readiness and mission capability that according to in our own studies and our own
▶ 1:34:37determinations does not measure up, shall we say. And this this presents a danger to the world. We we are relied upon It said that the sun does not set on the responsibilities of the United States military to restore maintain peace and our projection of force worldwide requires a level of readiness and
▶ 1:35:07mission capability in out of our out of our our stock piles and our maintenance and at the unit level that um that we're not delivering right now. So we if this if this committee has failed in some way then we accept that responsibility but we have to take a hard cold look at this.
▶ 1:35:32We're talking about today the organic industrial base aes subset of the larger defense industrial base. We're talking about 23 arsenals depots and ammunition plants that manufacture and maintain army equipment.
▶ 1:35:46Now I'm going to focus my questioning Lieutenant General Moan on the organic industrial base according to the to the GAO is antiquated and not sufficient to maintain and certainly during times of needed surge.
▶ 1:36:07The go found that the number of overhauls of of maintenance depots performed by by the army dropped from 1,278 in fiscal year 2015 to 12 in fiscal year I just I'd like you to speak to to what extent is our failure to deliver mission
▶ 1:36:37capable and ready army vehicles. To what extent is that is that caused by our failure to modernize and expand our maintenance depots? and and and what shall we do about that, Lieutenant
▶ 1:36:56And and so um uh sir, thank you for that question. I think it comes down to the the why is is the is the conflict between hey, let's buy a whole bunch of new stuff versus let's look after the stuff that we have. And so we fell victim to hey, let's buy a whole bunch of new stuff. And uh and then um increased uptempo uh has also played a part in it. Um I will tell you we were reversing that trend.
▶ 1:37:22Um and just in the OP program alone um this past year uh just that one program alone um we are over 200 vehicles that we have uh completely remanufactured and uh rebuilt in our depots. And then in the future uh and I'm talking about the future of this year and next year uh we're going to expand that three-fold. Um, again, focused on those those um those highest consumers of readiness, but also the um uh the units that are first to fight.
▶ 1:37:52Um, and it's not just our ABCTS. It's
▶ 1:37:55General, you mentioned, I don't mean to interrupt you, but you mentioned uh focused on on on unit coordinating your maintenance with with unit uh readiness. I I think this is wise. would I'd like you to to respond to the army said it basically material and uh part and parts bill but there's a big problem and and you talk about the difference between buying new stuff
▶ 1:38:25and fixing our old stuff. Now I'm an army veteran. I was a staff sergeant in the army military police officer and your equipment has got to work for you guys on the on the We we left America's watching this is a legitimate question. We left a lot of military equipment um to the Taliban when we when we left Afghanistan and allegedly the stuff didn't work.
▶ 1:38:52We're not providing them parts but right now they're driving those old vehicles. So if they can repair our old vehicles seemingly manufacturing parts out of what can we do to to focus our available funding and energies and intellect and our combined desire to accomplish that mission to get it done better to repair our
▶ 1:39:22old equipment? Are we missing something? There's um uh there's several pieces. What we see when we execute um our op operational readiness program um the feedback that I get from battalion commanders, brigade commanders, and division commanders is hey the extra mechanics that come down. So we will send a a team of 40 mechanics um 15-year experience of uh that's the average of our M1 tank mechanics in the industrial base. 15 years.
▶ 1:39:52the they say, "Hey, the extra toolboxes are great, but the key piece and the best piece of this is the training that happens when our folks get next to young soldiers." So, a young soldier has 18 months experience um working on M1's. Our guys know the tricks of the trade. And and here's the other thing. We're a blueco collar organization. Our folks are not sitting there with their hands on their on their hips saying do this. They're saying, "Hey, watch me do this
▶ 1:40:18and and then you're going to do the next one." And so what we see in that diminished uh requirement for class 9 is is um a focus on ordering the right kind of parts. And then you couple that with with enhanced uh technology where you have the the the digital uh uh tech manuals loaded on a TAC device to order the right kind of parts. Then we see the all the pieces starting to come together. But it is a cultural issue that we to attack.
▶ 1:40:47I' I'd love to talk with you more about this. My time is well expired. Mr. Sorenson is recognized for questioning.
▶ 1:40:56Thank you, chair. Um, I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that uh Russia invaded the sovereign country of Ukraine four years ago today. May we keep our focus uh while we continue to to learn the tactics that will keep civilians safe and continue our readiness in the fight of good versus evil. I want to welcome Assistant Secretary Ingram, uh, General Ry, and my friend General Mohan.
▶ 1:41:21Uh, someone who before this very hearing today shared some great memories of you and your wife, um, when you were stationed in Rock Island. And we are thankful for for your service um, as a Quad citizen. I would say I'm so glad that today we get to talk about modernizing our organic industrial base because this is such an important topic and it's something that all of my neighbors who work uh around the Rock Island Arsenal know firsthand.
▶ 1:41:46Last year, as part of our NDAA, we created a pilot workload sustainment program with Army depots and arsenals modeled after my Arsenal workload sustainment act. The House and the Senate include this language because having a more predictable workload is critical to sustaining our OIB workforce and meeting the dynamic needs of our war fighters. Uh it's a proven model. It builds off of successful public private partnerships like the one that we have at Rock Island's JMTC and AM General.
▶ 1:42:16Um for Assistant Secretary Ingraham and as well as General Mohan, uh could either of you comment on the timeline for developing guidance on implementing section 348 as well as any guidance formal and informal uh that you are providing to OIB leadership to encourage that we have more partnerships in the future.
▶ 1:42:39Sir, I would just point uh uh directly to the uh organic industrial base um integration cell that that we have established in the Pentagon that is uh that is a a uh a a teamwork event with uh with Mr.
▶ 1:42:53Ingraham and his staff where where as we implement acquisition reform um we will have uh representation in each one of the PAEEs that will get on the front end again the front end of the acquis acquisition process to say this work is going to go to the organic industrial base to balance that um uh between the OIB and and and the broader Congressman, I can't speak to the past, but what I can tell you is uh
▶ 1:43:24[clears throat] you know, as we've set up this optimization cell, this is an opportunity for General Mohan and I to look at every platform that's coming through, whatever the new platform is, the new widget, old widgets as they come through the acquisition, you know, sort of cycle. Uh we we are looking at them to figure out where is the best place to sustain and maintain these and again driving those direct labor hours back into the OIB because we need it. We need those direct labor hours uh on the
▶ 1:43:50Great. And then as we get up front um of the process, then that allows us to tailor our modernization program. For example, looking at the future for the MV75, we know that we're going to have to do composits. Um so we are working and developing that composite repair capability right now, Corpus Christi, for example, and we're doing that well ahead of the first fielding. That's the that is the that's the model we're following, sir.
▶ 1:44:14Great. Um, I've been really encouraged by the Army's effort to establish Sky Foundry and and meet its goal of 3D printing 10,000 drones uh per month. I'm especially glad to see that the Army's leveraging the additive and advanced manufacturing center for excellence at Rock Island Arsenal and it's important that it remains part of Sky Foundry. General Mohan, can you comment more on the ecosystem that AMC is setting up to support Sky Foundry?
▶ 1:44:38And beyond drones, do you see that this setup could be something that could be used to to to bring manned or unmanned other systems to the army?
▶ 1:44:47Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. So, um so Sky Foundry is a broader subset um or a a a smaller subset of our broader advanced manufacturing um effort that we're ongoing. And so for for um so for example and Sky Foundry is part of a network um so and and the equipment that we're that we're um and the capability that we're building as part of that are useful for other things.
▶ 1:45:11So for example we already do um 3D printing of circuit cards at Toby Hannah Army Depot for radar um and radios. So we will produce um uh circuit cards for UAS off the same machines. um the uh the um composite or the um uh the carbon fiberbased 3D printing capability that we were expanding at Rock Island um is carbon fiber that we will use for multiple types of projects.
▶ 1:45:37Um but the key piece sir is is to uh is to build the network um and connect it all digitally because you as you know the goal is is that our our production facilities run lights out. Um and so having that that ecosystem of capability connected digitally so we can move workload around to wherever it uh where we have machine time so so those machines are constantly producing because as you know we have titanium printing machines that it'll take four days to print apart.
▶ 1:46:05We cannot afford to to um have one that is not running all the time. And so uh so that is part of that broader uh challenge that we're we're facing. Um and then the last thing if I can is is it's not only uh we know how to reverse engineer, we know how to uh produce parts, but then we put them through an antiquated um qualification process. And my my partner Mr. Ingramham is as well as General Hodney.
▶ 1:46:31That is our next big target is to move that qualification process to the front side of the manufacturing process using digital simulation and modeling. So, if we can if we can run a M88 for 5,000 miles in a synthetic environment to test a part, um, uh, that is what industry does. And so, we're actively attacking that right now.
▶ 1:46:52Let us know what this committee can do to help expedite that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I get back.
▶ 1:46:57And thank the gentleman and go to the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Magcguire.
▶ 1:47:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, you know, we wouldn't have a country without our men and women in our military. To all of our witnesses and all of our veterans in our active duty military, thank you for your service. As we modernize the organic industrial base to meet war fighter demand, I want to focus on surge capacity, singlepoint supply risk and how we sustain today's gain without a bust tomorrow. But I want to start off with Major General Ree. You know, we talked earlier about energetics and antimony for the layman. How important is antimony?
▶ 1:47:33Thanks for that question. U if you want ammunition to go bang or boom, it all starts with antimony. And so we find that in all our primers and all our
▶ 1:47:42So true or false? We used to rely heavily on China for these energetics.
▶ 1:47:47We are 100% dependent on Chinese
▶ 1:47:50Now do we still depend on China for
▶ 1:47:52We do not. They've they've weaponized the supply chain here and they have cut
▶ 1:47:57So then we've began to rely on India. Is that true?
▶ 1:48:01We very quickly pivoted and qualified a new source out of India. Yes. Yes. And what efforts are we making so that we can do that here in the United States?
▶ 1:48:09So in parallel, we embarked on a longer term strategy and that was to um reopen a gold mine in Stnite, Idaho.
▶ 1:48:18World War II,
▶ 1:48:19World War II produced tungsten as well as antimony.
▶ 1:48:22Right. And then of course some of the energetics that chemicals that we use to feed u artillery and things like that are also needed for rocket motor missiles. Is that correct?
▶ 1:48:32You are correct.
▶ 1:48:33Okay. Okay. Then my next question is for uh the honorable Mr. Ingram. Um as we modernize Radford and other organic baselines that feed solid rocket motor production, would introduce an additional qualified ro rocket motor manufacturers help translate those organic base upgrades into real resilience and cost savings across the army munitions portfolios? And if so, what steps are you taking to reduce barriers for new entrance in that field?
▶ 1:49:01So, Congressman, I'd like to actually bring it back to something uh General Ry mentioned earlier. Um, you know, when we think about uh the ability to have those key components, I'll call them key starter materials, right? starting right from sort of uh the rare earth materials, you know, so going from the from the ground to the factory floor. Uh you know, a number of areas that I have more concerns in is sort of as we get from that rare earth material and what we call midstream and materialization.
▶ 1:49:30So how we actually take those raw materials, turn them into a powder, a substance of something and then turn that into, you know, a metal or a product that we could actually put on a factory floor to make into an end component. We lack a lot of the mid-stream and upstream sort of capabilities in this country uh as we think about bringing on things bring in you know we can reopen minds which is absolutely the critical step to onshore capabilities like antimony like we just heard about but the ability then to turn that into
▶ 1:50:01a product uh becomes a becomes a challenge and so when we talk about bringing on uh new rocket motor manufacturers and that sort of stuff uh similar they are going to struggle All of those sort of manufacturers struggle with that mid-stream capability, right? With so how we get from sort of the rare earth materials to a product that they can mix in a mixing bowl and pour into a casting to make a rocket motor. And so that's actually when you talk about where I'm concerned and where the biggest risk are is there. And so how are we doing that?
▶ 1:50:30We are working closely with uh uh the office of secretary of defense industrial-based policy using the defense production act to get after a number of those key areas that are not just only support the the army but support us as a nation where we've got critical gaps in some of that processing piece metalization piece uh that we've got to get after.
▶ 1:50:52That sounds great. I think this kind of you just answered this next question, but let's make sure we got it right. So, how is the deputy secretary of war and um office of industrialbased policy coordinating with you and your munitions teams to map supply chain vulnerabilities to platform level requirements? And what can we do on the armed services committee to help you get
▶ 1:51:17Yes. So, uh Congressman, I mentioned uh you know working with uh OSW uh industrial-based policy. In fact, uh something they have is called an industrial base council. We actually just had it uh earlier uh this week where uh we get together look at those supply chains, right?
▶ 1:51:33And they have mapped those supply chains uh all the way from the rare earth material to the factory floor across roughly the you know 32 critical raw uh rare earth materials that we are currently trying to onshore and grow.
▶ 1:51:48And so there are gaps there and as we look across the investments that uh that they are making investments that we're making sort of larger across the the whole of government approach you know investments uh uh commerce or others are making in those spaces ensuring we're deconlicting and not sort of uh going heavy in one area and not nothing in another area. Right?
▶ 1:52:11And so uh they are sort of the deconlicting of that space uh as long as as well as executing you know defense production act authorities in the space and so we are working closely with them to ensure that uh army investments align with sort of the greater strategy.
▶ 1:52:26Well I'm out of time but let us know how we can help. Thank you.
▶ 1:52:30I thank the gentleman. We'll now go to Mr. Mesmer for his five minutes.
▶ 1:52:34Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. I just attended a groundbreaking of a new solid rocket motor manufacturing site at a munitions campus just outside of Crane Army ammunition activity in my district. The munitions campus anchored by Prometheus Energetics is a joint venture between Kratos and Raphael and a great example of building capacity and munitions readiness.
▶ 1:52:56Supporting the kind of these kind of projects at at munition campuses surrounding our arsenal activity sites should be highly considered as we modernize or our organic industrial base. Assistant Assistant Secretary Ingram, how's the Army structuring acquisition strategies and contracting mechanisms to fully leverage newly newly qualified partners and what additional authorities or resources would help accelerate their contribution to the readiness solution?
▶ 1:53:22Congressman, uh, you know, it absolutely starts with sort of the, uh, lowering the barriers to entry. And so uh we are absolutely looking at uh at a number of efforts uh working closely with some of the other the other services specifically air force and navy on on how we're ensuring that uh you know there's a lot of solid rock solid rocket motor manufacturers that are that are starting to grow up because there was a significant demand in that and there still is a significant demand to fill that gap.
▶ 1:53:53And so as we look at a number of our future munitions, we're looking at uh you know a number of uh you know open competitions that will allow uh vendors to bring their capabilities forward uh through a number of test phases uh where we can qualify multiple sources uh to really drive the sort of the competition in industry um and bring uh multiple vendors on board for for multiple munitions. So we're not uh limited to a single solid rocket motor manufacturer.
▶ 1:54:21Okay. Thank you. Uh, also assistant secretary, roughly 1,700 parts have been identified as suitable for additive manufacturing. What acquisition pathways is the army using to accelerate qualification and scale of production of these parts? So, uh, Lieutenant General Mohan talked a little bit about how we're, uh, currently using sort of additive manufacturing capacity that we already have within the army, uh, to get after a number of those capabilities.
▶ 1:54:51There are also outside uh, entities uh, companies, right, that are that are have a 3D printing sort of manufacturing facilities that we are working to qualify to come on board and be able to produce these parts as well. I think the challenge is as General Mohan highlighted is really the qualification process right now inside the army. That's on us to figure out how to qualify these parts faster so we can get them into the field quicker.
▶ 1:55:16Um and that's definitely a challenge that uh uh General Mohan uh and General Hodney and T2 com and I the three of us are working towards. Okay, that leads right into my next question. What is the average time required to qualify a an additive manufactured component? So I think that's the uh that's the challenge we're facing right now, right?
▶ 1:55:38So when we talk uh you know safety critical part, something that's going to go on a fixed wing or a rotary wing aircraft, there's a different level of test and maturity that we need to do on that part relative to a part that's going to go on uh you know a water buffalo that's going to torn a trailer behind a JLTV, right? There is there's different levels of risk that we have to take. And that's where we're we've got one path right now.
▶ 1:55:59uh and so we are working through to change sort of the levels of risk that would allow us to accept you know much more risk on lower uh lower parts that are not concerned for airworthiness or things like of that nature but I'll let General tie into that if he's got some other additional
▶ 1:56:15yeah so our current process can take anywhere from 60 days to to 14 15 months um and uh and sir that's that's where we have we have one we've got to build the digital uh the digital twins of vehicles so So, we've already done the uh we're doing the M88 now. We've got the Bradley. We're going to do the trip 7 Howitzer. Um and it's and that 1,700 is just probably just for the M88.
▶ 1:56:38Um and so we're building this this digital repository that will not only allow us to print, but also um uh when we build it, it's got the type of printer it was printed on. It's got the specifications, the material that will allow other units and partners. We've qualified six um other outside of the army entities to be qualified suppliers and so so as we move to the future they will they will manufacture and ship parts for us once we we solve the qualification process.
▶ 1:57:09Okay. Thank you. I yield back the remainder of my time.
▶ 1:57:13I thank the gentleman. We'll go through a second round of questions and General Ry, I want to begin with you. We know that at uh Radford Ammunition Plant, there's been underway a construction of a new nitroc cellulose production facility. The construction started in and we're still waiting to see when we're going to get to full rate production of nitrocellulose. When you go there and you visit, it is like taking a step back in time. You go to the current nitrocellulose production facility.
▶ 1:57:41It's an area where you have uh board planks where you go from vat to vat where they're boiling and mixing the different components and brewing as I like to call it nitroc cellulose. You go in there and literally it's raining from the ceiling. And when you ask the technicians there say why is this place just like a uh a sauna? And they go oh sir we have to keep the level of humidity high enough so the place doesn't explode.
▶ 1:58:06And I'm like, boy, that gives me a lot of uh a lot of uh nice nice uh confidence that that we have a modern technology facility where we're producing a highly volatile material under very very uh adverse conditions. And that's how we produce the majority of our nitrous cellulose. We have a nice modern facility next door, continuous flow.
▶ 1:58:29So, we feed the chemicals together in a very controlled environment and where we don't have nearly the amount of risk and yet facility continues to be delayed. And the older facility there where we're cooking uh in an old vat, a nitro cellulose is what we continue to do today.
▶ 1:58:46give me some hope or some view about where we're going to be with the new production facility, when it's going to be at full rate production, and when we can finally abandon the uh the Witches Brew facility there where we're now concocting nitro cellulose.
▶ 1:59:02Mr. Chairman, thanks for that. And I kind of share your uh you know, your sentiments on Radford as that was a great description and rundown. Um, I got some good news for you that uh we've successfully completed an endurance run.
▶ 1:59:17We're working through the various classes of nitrous cellulose doing first article testing and we expect to be fully commissioned by April.
▶ 1:59:25Um, we're also discussing having a ribbon cutting ceremony come June and we'll ensure that you get a personal
▶ 1:59:33What's that? the question was which April? [laughter] April 2026.
▶ 1:59:41There we go. I like it. I like it. Very good. Well, you put us on the list for the ribbon cutting ceremony and and that'll that'll be an an exciting day. Let me ask this. You know, we have places like Radford. We have a number of other facilities across the United States. Uh we [snorts] heard uh there uh Mr. Mesmer's district and others. We have great facilities with great capacity.
▶ 2:00:05And we talked today about the organic industrial base where the organic industrial base begins right at the facilities where we've had this magnificent production capability on large geographic footprints that is well situated to do even more. So the question is is as we look into the future and we look at sustained increased production for our weapon systems whether it's solid rocket motors and they make a few of those at at uh at Radford also.
▶ 2:00:35How do we utilize the capability that we have in the organic industrial base of these existing facilities, not just in modernization, but also an expansion to where we have that as a fully controlled organic capability within the army or within the armed forces for that matter versus having to rely on contractors outside to do things.
▶ 2:00:55And obviously they're hesitant when we tell them build 100,000 rounds of 155 and then 5 years later when weapons magazines are full we go we don't need much anymore so do 10,000 rounds a year and they're like well wait a minute we have all this sunk cost in these facilities why would we want to do this again? So that's where we're going to have to find the right combination of organic industrial capacity as well as the private contractor capacity.
▶ 2:01:23tell us how we utilize the capacity in places like Radford to the best advantage of the army and for that matter across the the spectrum of the armed forces.
▶ 2:01:34I think uh Radford is is unique, you know, with nitrous cellulose. It's the only US source of of NC. Uh I certainly also appreciate you know the section 806 authorities that we have that gives me the ability to restrict restrict competition and direct work there
▶ 2:01:50so that when we are in a surge period that we actually do have a capability to to manufacture at scale as we've previously discussed uh and your you know great description of how we currently make uh nitro cellulose that has left us behind with some of our more advanced propellant systems
▶ 2:02:08and and today while I have that authority to restrict There's certain classes of nitroc cellulose that uh rafer is not capable of making and so we're forced to import from Czech Republic the French Koreans
▶ 2:02:22and then further process in Canada before we bring it back to you know one of our o sites at Iowa as an example to do load assemble pack
▶ 2:02:32and so we've got some you know thanks to your continued support you know we've got some investment you know planned
▶ 2:02:39toh do the necessary things to enable us to produce, you know, some of these um, you know, more advanced propellants, you know, going forward. You know, above and beyond, you know, just our artillery, you know, we've also got risks in
▶ 2:02:52kind of our main battle tank, you know, tactical rounds and some of the propellants there and what we're seeing with, you know, cannon calibers.
▶ 2:02:59You know, 20 through, you know, 40
▶ 2:03:03that, uh, you know, we're dependent on, you know, European sourcing for for those propellants. I think there's a great opportunity, you know, to continue to modernize,
▶ 2:03:11you know, you know, their,
▶ 2:03:13you know, I think, uh, you know, some of the key lessons learned from Ukraine is that while our partners donated a number of howitzers, they very quickly ran out of the munitions that came with those
▶ 2:03:24And it was incumbent on us to go forward and do all the uh safety and engineering analysis, the building of firing tables that allowed the safe use of US produced munitions in those systems. And so I think there's a robust international demand, you know, for US munitions.
▶ 2:03:43Up to this point, in all fairness, you know, to to the facilities themselves, we've workloaded 100% of available production capacity.
▶ 2:03:53And as as we see the kind of the of, you know, prioritization and resourcing, you know, we're in conversations now of, hey, what does the minimum sustaining rate look like going forward? But we're also throwing out these opportunities that now we've got, you know, available capacity that can solve, you know, some of these international demands. We're also encouraged with a number of private equity and self-investing here in the US.
▶ 2:04:20And that's a component of, you know, there's a new facility going, Texas. They're going to make u, you know, just shell bodies. Yeah.
▶ 2:04:27But they're going to need a fuse.
▶ 2:04:28They're going to need, you know, an explosive fill. They're going to need a propelling charge, right? in order to satisfy a European, you know, kind of business plan that they have.
▶ 2:04:36And so I think there's opportunities there to leverage, you know, the workforce, to leverage the capacity we've worked really hard to build as well as keep our supply chains um, you know, active and, you know, sustainable going forward.
▶ 2:04:51Sure. Yeah. I think those are all important points to have some flexibility in manufacturing capacity, especially in different forms of nitrous. There's no reason why you can't have that at a single facility. You know, there at Radford, obviously, it's a go-k governmentowned contractor operated facility. Great opportunity to be able to take that that footprint, which is, you know, massive, and be able to use that footprint, also to be able to store nitroelios there. We have a number of of facilities there.
▶ 2:05:19We can store that, store it safely, get it out of the flood plane there uh on the new river. So I think those are incredibly important things as well as looking at others. Uh you know we we talk about modern energetics and obviously different forms of nitroc cellulose are part of that that novel energetics realm but we also have to be able to produce the the u I call the the the the base chemicals of what we need and that's things like TNT and I think having multiple facilities that produce TNT is going to be key too.
▶ 2:05:50I know that you all have opened up a new facility to be able to do some of that. But I think additional capability there is also going to be key. So looking at those things and making sure we're properly cap properly capitalizing that and then get commitments from our allies to where they will if not buying the munitions from us at least buy the base components to where we can ensure sustainability because it's in everybody's interest to make sure that we have that capability.
▶ 2:06:14I I I would argue that those capabilities are the greatest deterrent force that this nation can have because if our if our adversaries know that, you know, we can produce all that we need in order to counter what they're going to do, it'll make them think twice. But if they look at it and they say, "Wow, guess what? Their production capacity, even if they go to maximum uh levels, you know, in the next 6 months is 10 times below theirs.
▶ 2:06:41That's that's a provocation." And we've seen through history, history is a great teacher. You know, provocation in military conflict occurs when there is a disparity in capability between nations. No matter who the nations are, it always always happens. It's the unfortunate consequence of how human beings operate. So our greatest deterrent is to make sure we have the capability to have somebody wake up every morning as a leader of a foreign nation and say, "No, not today.
▶ 2:07:08Not today." That's how we keep the world safe and that's how we assure that this nation has what it needs to continue to prosper. So with that, I'm going to go to Mr. Gari. I know that he has an additional question. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Um, very, very important hearing. Thank you so very much for the information you've provided and for some very uh important questions that have been raised by my colleagues here. A little quick thing that's been on my mind forever.
▶ 2:07:35Perhaps because my family's been in the mining business for 100 plus years. Doesn't do much good to pull the gold out of the ground unless you're able to actually get it. And um excuse me. Some people think that this question is not so important. Um you got to refine the It's not enough to mine it. you got to refine it and that seems to be lost in most of the discussion.
▶ 2:08:06Enough of that. I'll be asking questions about refining in a different forum. Um what I want to get at here is uh to take your u testimony and and to bring it down to something that is useful to to me and hopefully to the committee here and that is okay, you've got uh 200 plus million dollars going into the arsenals for what? and how is it being used and to what effect?
▶ 2:08:35In other words, are you successfully carrying out your goal and what metrics are you used? What is your mechanism of determining how you are doing on that? It follows up on the earlier questions I raised about we really do need to know because we're operating in the dark here. Um, and the light that we get is from you and not the three of you, but I will tell you over the years I've been shined on with really bright lights that don't give any information.
▶ 2:09:03So, what I'm looking for is a mechanism to understand what you want to do then how that fits with our understanding of need and this energetics issue is certainly a critical one. There multiple pieces that have been brought to uh the discussion. How is it? What are you doing? how is it going? What do you need? Uh the need side we work together on. So I really would appreciate it if you could do that.
▶ 2:09:30Um and that involves all of these things. Uh with regard to the vehicles themselves, which brings me down to the rubber on the road, or excuse me, the rubber and the dust and the mud. Um there's a real problem here. What are you doing specifically to deal with each of the critical? Now the Humpies may be gone and you don't care much about repairing them. Fine. Tell us. Fine. We understand. What's the next uh vehicle coming in to replace it?
▶ 2:10:00So, I need to know on the readiness subcommittee down to the as I say the mud and the dust and the vehicle. How are you maintaining it? What's happening? What do you need to do more? Uh if it's not priority is fine, tell us why. Um the other one deals with the um another piece of that it's becoming extremely expensive to maintain these um ground vehicles.
▶ 2:10:26The Abrams tank is probably the uh principal um example. What are we going to do about that?
▶ 2:10:39Well, you finally found something that'll get me to shut up. Votes. 10 minutes for votes. Uh, but I'm I'm looking for a mechanism to really hold to what do you want? What do you want to do? I know you know what needs to be done. What do you need to do it? How are you going about doing it? What's success? And how do we fit into that?
▶ 2:11:06Thank you, Mr. Garmeny. Thanks so much for your uh very uh important questions about what the path forward is. Thank you for do doing that. We appreciate that, gentlemen. Thank you so much. Thanks for your testimony. Thanks for your hard work. We uh in the words of the immortal Jerry Reid, we have a long ways to go and a short time to get there. So, we want to make sure we're doing that working with you. Let us know what we can do to help. And with that, this hearing is adjourned.