▶ 0:11:09I have nothing to do. >> well. Good morning. Good morning everyone. Um, it's good to have everyone here and the, uh, a labor, health and human services subcommittee today. And, uh, thanks. Thanks to our witnesses for coming to testify this morning.
▶ 0:11:24Uh, on the topic of community colleges, uh, we will hear from these, uh, innovative leaders about how their instruct institutions are preparing students for promising careers and delivering an education that is aligned with workforce needs and at the same time, being cost effective. I look forward to hearing about their efforts to help students succeed, to become and become workforce ready.
▶ 0:11:50And what we should know as we examine programs in this subcommittee's jurisdiction. The secret is clearly out, and that's the value that community colleges deliver. Students and the local, uh, economy, according to the national student clearinghouse, community college enrollment grew 3% in the fall of 2025.
▶ 0:12:16That is double the 1.4% increase at public four year colleges. Enrollment increased 1.9% and certificate programs, and by 2.2% and associate degree programs. That's faster than the approximately 1% increase for the bachelor's program.
▶ 0:12:36So it's clear that many students are eager to enter or reenter the workforce more quickly after getting the necessary skills and training in less time, and in less money than than the traditional four year degree that should come, should not come as any surprise. As more americans are questioning what exactly they're getting from a college degree.
▶ 0:13:00A september 2025 gallup poll found that the share of americans who view colleges as very important has fallen to 35%, and that's down from 75% in 2010. A separate nbc news poll this past november found only one third of americans think that four year college degrees is worth the cost, down from about half saying it was worth it in 2017.
▶ 0:13:28Now, to be sure, um, by highlighting the success of community college, we are in no way downplaying the role of four year institutions. But for many years, the federal approach to higher education made a priority and greater access enrollment for four year institutions.
▶ 0:13:48And while a four year degree can bring, uh, some great career opportunities and higher lifetime earnings, uh, the experience is far from universal. The federal government invests $131 billion annually in financial aid through loans and grants. Despite this outsized investment, too many students do not see the expected benefits, and unfortunately, a few end up worse off financially.
▶ 0:14:16It is encouraging that leaders at community colleges around the country are focused on programs and strategies to set students up for success. Their institutions offer opportunities to learn and gain experience in high demand fields, avoiding any an expensive degree not in demand by the. That's not in demand by industry. Our nation's community colleges serve students in all stages of life.
▶ 0:14:44Students seeking their high school diploma equivalency, those who graduated high school years ago, those who are working that are working, students with children, students which seek to switch career fields, and those looking for specific skills to advance in their existing career. Many students enroll part time because they do not want or they cannot afford to miss a paycheck.
▶ 0:15:10In the interim, community college excels at tailoring their programs to all students, offering a range of programs from stackable credentials to associate's degree and offering flexible course schedules at night and on weekends, or sometimes even online through dual enrollment programs.
▶ 0:15:31Community colleges are a connection for our k-12 schools, giving students exposure to college material and career opportunities they may not have known otherwise or known was available to them through partnerships with local employers. Community colleges integrate hands on learning, which means students can be immersed in the most up to date training standards and equipment. Community colleges offer tremendous value.
▶ 0:15:59Average in-district tuition and fees for a public two year school totaled just over $4,000 in the year 2024 to 2025. Nearly 8000 less than in-state costs for a public four year school.
▶ 0:16:17Today, we we will hear from higher education and workforce development leaders about what they are doing to prioritize student success and to respond to the needs in the workforce.
▶ 0:16:32These leaders across the country from browning, montana, all the way to my home state of alabama, are forward thinking and responsive to the needs of both students and surrounding industry, securing strong pipelines of workers into critical and critical fields is a win win for students and also for employers and also for our economy.
▶ 0:16:55Whether it's in home, commercial truck drivers, uh line workers, uh, advanced manufacturing, skilled and industry trades, or feels like hospitality and education, our workforce needs are growing amid an aging population. We also contend with worker shortages and find new ways to mitigate them.
▶ 0:17:16Rural areas, much like the district I represent, feel the pressure of addressing workforce shortages acutely today. We look forward to hearing about the success of these schools and how they are focused on improving students outcomes. Before I turn to the rank to the ranking member, uh, for her remarks, I would like to introduce our first witnesses. First is doctor patricia simms, who is president of j.f.
▶ 0:17:45Drake state community and technical college in huntsville, alabama. And, uh, I'm going to save the next guest to be introduced, brad hall, by our, uh, one of my colleagues in just a minute. And, um, then also, I am pleased that we're going to also hear from, uh, Mr.
▶ 0:18:05Sean morgan, vice president of workforce and strategy initiative at bevill state community college, located in the district that I represent. And also we have, uh, shaylyn. Um, john josh riley, okay, founder and managing director of the future of work and innovation economy initiative at new america.
▶ 0:18:31So glad to have each of each of you here and look forward to, uh, you sharing your expertise with us, with us today. And, uh, if I could turn now to, uh, we'll go ahead and allow, uh, Mr. zinc, uh, from montana to recognize, uh, one of our panelists as well. >> uh, thank you, Mr. chairman, and I'm honored to recognize and introduce, uh, brad hall. He's the president of the blackfeet community college.
▶ 0:19:01And the blackfeet have been around a long time, some say about 40,000 years. But they're a sovereign nation. And as a sovereign nation, they have unique challenges. Uh, of that. And I've talked to multiple students that attend the university or the community college, and all of them say the same thing. They finally have a sense of belonging, a sense of accomplishment, and a desire to return the favor and make the blackfeet nation stronger.
▶ 0:19:29Uh, so it's my distinct honor to introduce a champion of tribal community colleges and one that cares. And he's perfect for the job. So, brad hall, thank you. And I look forward to your testimony. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> well, let me welcome all of you here today. And now I'd like to turn to my ranking member, uh, for her opening remarks. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:19:57And, uh, to our witnesses to doctor simms, doctor hall, Mr. morgan, Mr. joshi, uh, for making time today to share your valuable, valuable insights with our committee. Uh, it is no secret that just about everything in this country is more expensive now. Groceries, housing, utilities, lord knows health care. The cost of education is by no means an exception to this trend.
▶ 0:20:22We have told a generation of americans that the surest path out of cyclical poverty to upward social mobility, financial security, and a better future for our children and their children after them, is a college education. But that path has become prohibitively expensive for far too many people over the last 30 years, tuition for public four year college has doubled, and that is after accounting for inflation.
▶ 0:20:49For the 2025 2026 academic year, tuition for a four year public college was $11,950 on average, and that is before housing, textbooks and other costs. It is no wonder that upon graduation from a public four year institution, the typical student has accumulated over $27,000 in student debt. I firmly believe that what we have told a generation of americans remains true.
▶ 0:21:21Education is the best pathway to success. Education is the great equalizer. It is about success, stability and prosperity. But we as a government, as a society, have not kept up our end of the bargain. The terms of the deal have gotten worse, and it is our responsibility here in this building to do everything that we can to fix it.
▶ 0:21:43Fortunately, part of the solution is right here in front of us today, while tuition at public four year institutions has gone up, two year public colleges, community colleges has actually decreased by 10% in the past decade after adjusting for inflation. Full time tuition for community college sits at $4,150 on average, roughly one third the cost of a four year public institution.
▶ 0:22:11In the fall of 2023, around 6 million students were enrolled in community colleges throughout the country. Many americans recognize the clear benefits of attending community college. A greater share of community college students work full time while getting their degree.
▶ 0:22:32Many are parenting, caring for their families, and are able to take advantage of the flexibility the community college provides while receiving a high quality education. I want to hone in on this point specifically for a moment a high quality education. There is a persistent and inaccurate notion that persists that a community college education is somehow lesser or inadequate. It is not.
▶ 0:22:59In a recent survey of administrators at two year and four year colleges alike, roughly three quarters agree that students who transfer to four year institutions from community colleges perform as well as or better than students who started at that institution. As a freshman.
▶ 0:23:19The only thing that is inadequate with regard to community college is our investment in it, not only financially, although that is crucial, but programmatic and institutional investments, providing new opportunities for students and local businesses, governments and organizations to avail themselves of their untapped potential.
▶ 0:23:44Despite a far greater share of community college students working full time while they are enrolled, only 1.4% receive any federal work study aid. In stark contrast to the 14% of undergraduates at private, nonprofit, four year colleges who do. We must do more to bridge the gap between industries in need of a talented workforce and students eager to contribute their skills to the communities and provide for their families.
▶ 0:24:13That is why, in my first year as chair of the labor hhs education subcommittee, I created the strengthening community colleges training grants program. Community colleges are and have always been the best positioned to support local workforce development. What is needed is more action on our part to nurture this mutually beneficial relationship.
▶ 0:24:37We must also continue our investments in the federal registered apprenticeships program, which can help community colleges build their capacity to integrate these initiatives with their credit bearing degree programs. Individuals who complete a registered apprenticeship program earn $200,000 more over the course of their careers, compared to workers in the same occupations trained through other means.
▶ 0:25:03As appropriators, we have an obligation to ensure the resources are available for these programs to be successful. We will hear from our witnesses today about the importance of federal investments in their success, and they will also share the urgent needs and areas where our subcommittee can support students, workers and regional economies. Several of our witnesses will also discuss their enthusiasm for workforce pell grants, which will allow students to use pell grants for noncredit programs as brief as eight weeks.
▶ 0:25:32While I fully expect community colleges to rise to the challenge and craft programs that meet the needs of workers in regional economies, I have also held long standing concerns about the potential proliferation of low quality offerings, particularly by the predatory for profit college sector. The data on very short term programs are already quite clear.
▶ 0:25:58A brookings institute study found that 70% of graduates from ten week programs earn less than they would have if they never enrolled in the program in the first place. So as we review how workforce pell is implemented, I believe we need to tread carefully. We need to establish strong performance guardrails and prevent predatory online and for profit companies from taking advantage of job seekers and taxpayers.
▶ 0:26:25I am proud that during this appropriation cycle, democrats were able to push back and prevent many of these programs from being eliminated entirely, which is no mean feat when the current administration is trying to dismantle the education department altogether. Trump administration slated many investments in community colleges for elimination, including training grants for adults and youth.
▶ 0:26:52Wioa registered apprenticeship, childcare access grants for student parents. In addition, the president's budget proposed cutting the maximum pell grant by $1,685, a nearly 25% reduction, but proudly on a bipartisan, bicameral basis.
▶ 0:27:14The congress rejected these proposed cuts and eliminations because, unlike the trump administration, we recognize the value of community colleges and the federal programs that they rely on. Community colleges generate an incredible value to our society and to our economy.
▶ 0:27:32In fact, one out of every 18 jobs in the united states is supported by the activities of community college alumni and community colleges generate nearly $900 billion in economic activity annually. That's according to a report from the american association of community colleges. This is roughly roughly 4% of our national gdp.
▶ 0:27:56Community colleges are worth the investment, just not just economically and socially, but morally. We have an obligation to support affordable higher education that offers every individual the opportunity to learn, to grow, to succeed and to thrive. I want to say thank you again to our witnesses for all the work that you do for making a difference in the lives of your students, and I look forward to hearing your testimony today, I yield back.
▶ 0:28:28>> thank you, miss laurel lee. Um, we'll now turn to our witnesses. Uh, you will each have five minutes to deliver your opening remarks. Um, note that your submitted written testimony will be included in the full record. Um, so doctor sims will begin with you. Thank you, thank you. >> good morning again, chairman aderholt, ranking member delauro. And distinguished members of the subcommittee. I'm doctor patricia sims, president of drake state community and technical college in huntsville, alabama.
▶ 0:28:56And thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of students, families whose futures, who depend on decisions that you make in rooms like this one. Drake state is a historically black community college and hbc, founded in 1961, and for more than six decades, we have been a doorway of opportunity for students who often have nowhere else to turn across the alabama community college system, hbcus served nearly 10,000 students last year from rural and urban
▶ 0:29:27Communities, first generation homes, and working class families. And these students are not just statistics. These are young parents balancing childcare and coursework. They are veterans reentering civilian life. They are adult learners returning to school after years in jobs that no longer sustain their families. They're dreamers looking for opportunity.
▶ 0:29:51At drake state, we see those struggles up close and our average student age is 28 years old. Managing bills, family responsibilities and jobs that do not cover the cost of living. And many of the students that we see are hesitant to pursue further education because they fear taking on more debt. And for this reason, drake state we do not participate in the federal loan program.
▶ 0:30:15We are committed to providing students a pathway to a better life without burdening them with long term financial obligations. That's why our industry supported earn and learn programs are so critical. They do more than just prepare students for the workforce. They restore dignity, confidence and belief in what's possible in america. Let me share one example. A young man named andrew walked onto our campus a few semesters ago, carrying more than his backpack.
▶ 0:30:45He carried two part time jobs, a young family and the weight of believing his future was slipping away. Traditional education did not fit his life. But through our csi connecting students to industry program, he spent two days a week in class and three days a week working in industry earning. While he was learning, his supervisors mentored him and invested in him, and two years later, andrew graduated debt free and accepted a full time job with the pill, with stability and pride. And he shared with us.
▶ 0:31:15Drake state didn't just change my future, it changed the way my children look at me. That's the power of targeted federal support. That's the power of our community colleges. That's the power of opening doors for students who simply need an opportunity.
▶ 0:31:32Partnerships like csi fame and our lpn launch program with huntsville hospital, along with support from organizations like thurgood marshall college fund, show what's possible when education and industry work hand in hand. And as I close, I'd like to speak to a few key federal initiatives. First, the strengthening community college training grant program.
▶ 0:31:54This program has had a direct positive impact on my institution and other alabama community colleges, and it is a prime example of how government strengthens the workforce by supporting local partnerships. Secondly, the new workforce pell program. This program will allow institutions like drake state to expand short term, high demand training and be more responsive to our industry partners.
▶ 0:32:22We believe that the department is doing is implementing this new authority effectively, and we continue and urge your continued support for the broader pell grant program. We urge you to maintain full funding. The growth and expenditures reflect the bipartisan policy improvements that were enacted under president trump in 2020, and those changes expanded eligibility and opened the doors for more students in our nation to access these funds.
▶ 0:32:50Those commitments were promises to america's learners, and we feel like those promises should be kept. And finally, I want to emphasize the critical importance of title three and futures act funding for historically black community colleges and universities. This institutional support strengthens every corner of my campus.
▶ 0:33:09It helps us to break cycles of poverty, improve workforce readiness, grow local and national economic development, and strengthen america's global competitiveness. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for your leadership, and thank you for recognizing that the strength of our nation begins with the strength of its people. So with your continued support at drake state, we will continue to do what we've always done transform lives. One student, one family, and one employer at a time.
▶ 0:33:39Thank you for listening and the opportunity to share my comments. >> thank you, congressman zink, for the very kind introduction and your partnership over the years. Chairman aderholt, ranking member delauro, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity for me to testify today. Oki. Hello. My name is brad hall.
▶ 0:34:06I serve as the 11th president of blackfeet community college. Um, our bphc, as I'll mention for time in browning, montana. And over its 50 year history, we've served the blackfeet nation. Bphc is a tribally controlled land grant institution rooted in blackfeet culture and values, and stand as a cornerstone of the federal trust responsibility that the us government has to tribes.
▶ 0:34:32We provide accessible, high quality education to students across the blackfeet nation and beyond. When it comes to size and impact. We are small, but we are mighty. When, um, in the fall, we we registered 362 students, a 14% increase over the last year.
▶ 0:34:52We succeed because of we offer a welcoming, supportive environment with a 13 to 1 student faculty ratio and low tuition just at 36,000 or $3600 a year, uh, for the entire academic year. We also do not serve, um, federal loans, as we do not want to straddle our students with debt as they transition into the workforce, our universities. But access is about more than tuition.
▶ 0:35:1967% of our students receive pell grants. Many balanced work family community responsibilities while pursuing their education. That is why we pair financial aid with paid internships, emergency assistance, and strong student supportive services that remove barriers that often prevent completion. Our programs are are tightly aligned to the workforce needs of our tribal communities.
▶ 0:35:45Our industry trades certificate equip students with essential building trade skills to directly address regional labor shortages, and it's also a key dual enrollment program that we offer at the college. Our nursing program assists in workforce gaps in healthcare. Our class seven teacher certification program helps educators to teach our culture and language in local schools, our programs and legal studies and anthropology also strengthen governance and natural resource stewardship.
▶ 0:36:17Partnerships amplify this work. For example, we've entered into an agreement with both glacier national park and pursuit at the glacier park lodge, where this summer they will be providing for internships, gardening, engineering, culinary arts and hotel management. These partnerships are the groundwork for the future of hospitality and tourism programing, tied to meaningful careers that we intend on leaning into as a community college. This impact of this work is measurable.
▶ 0:36:45Recent economic study by ahec found that the fiscal year 2223 tribal college alumni generated 3.8 billion in economic impact nationwide, the equivalent to supporting over 400,000 jobs at bphc alone. Our alumni have contributed $15 million to the reservation economy, the equivalent of supporting 391 jobs.
▶ 0:37:07That means that every dollar invested in blackfeet community college students gain $5.20 in lifetime earnings, and montana taxpayers gained $3.5 million in additional tax revenue and in public sector savings. That is not that is not just a good investment. It is a transformational one. The pell grant program is foundational.
▶ 0:37:32We are grateful to congress that acted to prevent near-term shortfalls and maintain a maximum award for fiscal year 26. We respectfully ask that we continue the pell grant program and avoid eligibility challenges that would restrict access. Also, title three, these are really important because they support everything from scientific equipment to tutoring to the very facilities that we operate under.
▶ 0:37:54I also want to stress the importance of the native american career and technical education program, which supports key specialty areas of our local economy, provides a career center that helps students find employment readiness after graduation. Finally, I want to highlight one urgent opportunity.
▶ 0:38:12We need a modern facility for our industry trades program, a new space where specialized stations for carpentry, welding, and others would allow us to expand our current one year certificate and stackable two year pathways to additional licensure programs. In closing, thank you for including the tribal colleges among the witnesses at this important hearing.
▶ 0:38:35Blackfeet community college remains committed to working collaboratively with this subcommittee to ensure that tribal nations and citizens have a voice in shaping our education, our workforce, and our future. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. >> thank you very much. Yes. That's right. Good morning, and thank you very much.
▶ 0:38:59Chairman aderholt, ranking member delauro and members of the committee for the privilege of speaking with you today about the critical role of community colleges in preparing for our future. My name is shailen joshi. I'm the founder and managing director of the future of work and innovation economy initiative at new america, where we advance research and technical assistance to ensure that tech driven growth translates into economic security for workers and families. Community colleges are critical to that objective.
▶ 0:39:31As you know, our community colleges enroll more than 40% of all of our undergraduates, and a majority of them come from low income families through industry aligned workforce programs, from apprenticeships to work based learning to career and technical education, they provide affordable and accessible pathways into the jobs that power our main street healthcare, public safety, skilled trades, it and beyond.
▶ 0:39:56But rapid advances in artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies have meant that today, our community colleges are educating for much more complicated labor market. They're becoming upskilling hubs for adults and entry points for new talent to secure jobs in sunrise industries. In advanced tech sectors, ai is one, but biotech, quantum microelectronics, robotics and advanced manufacturing.
▶ 0:40:21Now, this is critical because more than half of america's community colleges stem workers, uh, need some education beyond high school, but not necessarily a university degree. Unfortunately, too many colleges are shouldering this training responsibility. Facing chronic underinvestment, community colleges received significantly less public funding per student than four year counterparts.
▶ 0:40:45Now, if we expect our colleges to deliver quality outcomes in our most complex and rapidly changing industries, they need capacity building investments to purchase the latest equipment to upskill their own instructors, to level up partnerships with industry, universities, our national labs and with economic developers.
▶ 0:41:07A few years ago, new america partnered with the national science foundation to launch the accelerator for community colleges in the innovation economy. This is a national capacity building program that supports colleges in regions experiencing tech based growth from north dakota tribal colleges around smart agriculture to foresight tech in north carolina around bioeconomy.
▶ 0:41:33It's a privately funded initiative, and it's supported by national partners who represent our governors, our mayors, our universities, our economic developers, and yes, our community college sector as a whole. Through the accelerator, we've learned a great deal, and I've shared those insights in my written testimony today.
▶ 0:41:50The department of education and labor are well positioned to scale capacity building supports for colleges to grow these advanced tech tech sectors and meet bipartisan aims, from expanding economic opportunity to bolstering national security to advancing rural development. As I indicated in my written testimony, specific levers include the strengthening community college training grants and the perkins national activities allocation that could be leveraged for the same.
▶ 0:42:21I also encourage deeper collaborations with our federal agencies on the leading edge of r&d and economic development, including the nsf, darpa, and the departments of energy, commerce, agriculture, and others. Now, I only had five pages, but I provided details for both the capacity building priorities and citations of a few programs that could benefit from more interagency coordination.
▶ 0:42:44In this moment of rapid technological change, our community college sector is best positioned to ensure that low income students and working adults alike are not left behind. From red states to blue states, from cities to farmlands, with the right investments and strategies engaging all of the agencies at play, we can unlock even more community college pathways to the future of work and the american dream.
▶ 0:43:10Again, I thank you for the opportunity to testify on this critical topic of preparing for our future, and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. >> and last. >> good morning, chairman holt, ranking member delauro, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today.
▶ 0:43:31It's truly an honor to represent the alabama community college system and bevill state community college, and to speak on a topic that we care very deeply about, which is preparing the future workforce of the united states of america and alabama. Our community college system includes 24 colleges serving more than 160,000 individuals annually. We contribute over $8 billion to our state's economy every year.
▶ 0:43:52But more important than the economic numbers is this reality for thousands of alabamians, especially in rural communities, community colleges are not just the most affordable option. We are often the only accessible option above state community college. We serve some of the most rural counties in northwest alabama. Cities such as jasper and somerton, fayette, hamilton and carrollton, and nearly half the population in our service area live in rural communities.
▶ 0:44:18And yet, despite that geography, and maybe even perhaps because of it, we are delivering results. And these results are not accidental. They are the product of alignment, alignment with industry, alignment with workforce demand, and alignment with the realities of working adults. Nationally. We know that more than a million trade jobs remain unfilled in rural america. That shortage can feel even more urgent.
▶ 0:44:45Retirements are outpacing, I'm sorry, outpacing replacements. Generational skill transfer is absolutely at risk. So at bevill state, we focus on speed, quality and flexibility. We offer short term, industry recognized credentials in welding, industrial maintenance, construction trades, cdl, hvac, fast track programs that move students from enrollment to employment in a matter of weeks, not years.
▶ 0:45:12Students can enter quickly, earn wages quickly, stack credentials over time that can lead to higher degrees. That is the community college model at its best. We're also building the next generation pipeline through dual enrollment across alabama, more than 40,000 high school students are earning college credit while still in high school. That's a 230% increase since 2015. Just at bellville state, our annual enrollment has grown more than 130% in just the last four years.
▶ 0:45:39In rural counties where opportunity may appear, limited, dual enrollment can change trajectories. It allows students to see themselves as college students or even as future skilled professionals earlier than ever before. And now I believe that we stand in a transformational moment. The forthcoming workforce. Pell grant has the potential to remove one of the greatest barriers facing working adults, which is access to financial aid for short term, high quality workforce programs.
▶ 0:46:08At bevill state workforce, pale could immediately expand access to cdl, hvac, fast track welding lineworker training, healthcare, technical certificates, programs that are already often 8 to 15 weeks long. For rural communities. That's just not tuition assistance. That's economic survival. That means helping us stabilize our hospitals means expanding energy infrastructure, strengthening manufacturing.
▶ 0:46:36And it means putting individuals into family, sustaining wages very quickly. In addition, we are leading the development of the alabama energy infrastructure training center and network. This is a multi-campus initiative that will train line workers, fiber technicians, solar and microgrid installers, ev maintenance technicians, eight batch professionals, and weatherization professionals.
▶ 0:47:00We're also leveraging additional 50,000ft of new training space to create a regional workforce hub focused on high wage, high demand jobs partnered with industries that are directly tied to national resilience. When we train local residents for high skilled infrastructure careers, we strengthen both the rural economy and our national competitiveness. Community colleges are uniquely agile. When employers ask us, can you provide the talent that we must be able to say yes, but not in years, but in months.
▶ 0:47:30At bevill state, agility means rapid curriculum development, employer informed equipment investments, stackable credentials and flexible schedules. Community colleges are the conduit between federal investment and local impact. We translate policy into jobs, field wages increased, industry, stabilized, communities strengthened. America's community colleges are not simply preparing students for the future. We are preparing the future workforce itself.
▶ 0:47:55So on behalf of bevill state community college and the alabama community college system, thank you all for your continued support and for recognizing the essential role community colleges play in america's economic competitiveness. We stand ready to partner with you, to partner with congress to maximize every opportunity, strengthen rural america, and secure our nation's talent pipeline for generations to come. Thank you so much. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:48:25>> thank you doctor, doctor, Mr. morgan and all of you. Um, appreciate your testimony. Um, I'll begin our q&a. Um, and I'd like to begin with doctor sims. Um, you talked about in your testimony about, uh, your aim is to prepare students for careers without additional burden, um, of debt.
▶ 0:48:43Um, how has this conviction and decision as an institution to participate in grants and scholarships and not loans led you to set up these creative partnerships with employers to offer cost effective programs that benefit both the students and the employers. >> thank you for your question, Mr. chairman. Um, in coming to greg stanton, there's a lot of rapid growth in the huntsville area.
▶ 0:49:12And again, the students that we serve are often nontraditional students, adult aged learners. And what we keep hearing is that these are the folks that are in that have not been able to advance their position in work. And so we've been really, really critical in and intentional about partnering with industry when they come to a need align directly aligning training with the request of industry. And that gives our industry partners a level of comfort in investing in the students.
▶ 0:49:40And what we also find is that our industries are tired of recruiting. So when we are investing in people who live in the area, who've committed, who love the area, and who are simply looking for an opportunity to upskill, that offers confidence in the work that we're delivering. And so through the alabama community college system, our system of colleges, we're very proud of the work that we've been. We're able to be responsive, rapidly responsive to the needs of industry.
▶ 0:50:09And so we found that with these partnerships, we can find new and creative ways to not further burden students with debt. And so and most of these look like earn and learn programs. These are individuals who have to work because they do have responsibilities, but they can learn as well. And so industry has come to the table. And so we've been so proud of those partnerships, including our partnerships.
▶ 0:50:30So and industry has an opportunity to see the students, to train them and acclimate them into their culture early on. And so that what that means is that what we can deliver is a ready to work employee, not a person that has to be onboarded and retrained ready to work. And so we have found great success, and I'm really proud of the work that we've been able to do and helping our students improve the quality of their lives and meeting the needs of employers.
▶ 0:51:00And that's what we feel like our role is as community colleges. >> thank you. Let me turn to you, Mr. morgan. Um, I think in your testimony, you rightly said that rural communities can face challenges and addressing workforce needs. Uh, that from nursing to manufacturing. Um, our economic growth depends in large part on having enough qualified workers.
▶ 0:51:22Uh, can you tell us about more about bevill state's efforts to address the rural workforce needs and in particular, what successes have you seen in terms have you seen in terms of attracting and retaining students in the local workforce and economy after the graduate? >> thank you for the question, Mr. chairman. You know, so because give me an idea of our just the scope of our footprint bevill state.
▶ 0:51:51We our footprint encompasses 4600mi. It's massive. So immediately there's a challenge, right, which is access and access is everything. And so to make our our potential students aware of what is available is a challenge. We're going to make sure that we are we're in the we're in the we're in the high schools. We're marketing. We're championing what we do to allow them to see what is available. Because within our four campuses and our instructional site, we're within pretty good driving distance for anyone that can get there.
▶ 0:52:19And because we can have flexible schedules, we can do that in the evening, on the weekends, online. Like you said earlier, we can make that available to them. So what we're doing to address the rural workforce is to make sure, number one, that we are building any program not out of theory, but out of jobs being hired. Right? We don't want to just because of a buzzword or something. That sounds good.
▶ 0:52:41If employers are hiring, we want to make sure that we're addressing that workforce need and making sure that we're connecting those students to that industry, either through job shadowing, through internships, whatever it may be, to let them know that locally so we can help retain them. There's opportunity for them, give them hope to think that there's not something that they're going to have to move away for, or they're going to have to look outside of where they've grown up.
▶ 0:53:05But there's opportunity locally, and we do that by aligning with industry building programs that that align with employer demand. And so we've got to make that training accessible, and we've got to provide flexible schedules by offering short term credentials. Let's get them a short term credential, get them employed and allow that credential to be stackable. So they want to come back for upskill. They can. But let's get them in the workforce. And if we can do that, we can help retain them because we're getting them in there early. Hey. >> my time is slipping away.
▶ 0:53:36But let me just ask you quickly. You talk about this, you got you got a big coverage area of the campus covers or the, the college covers. Uh, what would be approximately the, the most that a student would have to drive in order to reach. >> I would say 45 minutes, Mr. chairman. >> thank you. >> Mr. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Just a couple of things before I ask the questions.
▶ 0:54:03Um, uh, with regard to doctor simms, hbcus, uh, in the budget got a very small increase of $5 million. Title three all got an increase of a $2 million. The native american, uh, tech program is part of perkins. I might just say this can't be deducted from my time. Today is the anniversary of francis perkins, um, being sworn in as the first woman cabinet member for, uh, franklin roosevelt.
▶ 0:54:32It's a great day. She is a hero. She really is to many of us. Um, the strengthening the community college training grants has been flat funded. Uh, and the perkins, uh, grants have been flat funded. Um, so I just mention those things because each of you has reflected on the importance of these things, and, um, uh, Mr. um, jyotishi, what is the federal role in supporting community colleges?
▶ 0:55:04Um, we provide student financial assistance. Pell federal work study. We fund formula grants. Perkins um, career and technical adult. We owe a training uh, competitive grants, apprenticeship strengthening community college training. What are, in your view, the most effective federal levels for supporting community colleges? >> thank you very much for the question, representative delauro.
▶ 0:55:29I would say that the optimal role of the federal government is to support the infrastructure for institutions such that they can deliver high quality, short term training such that they can deliver quality degree programs such that they can expand apprenticeship opportunities such that they can form these industry partnerships and partnerships with k through 12 schools, through career and technical education. All of these activities are incumbent on institutions having the resources they need.
▶ 0:55:56Again, our universities are immensely valuable assets to this country. It's why the america became, um, a global power in the 20th century. But there hasn't been a commensurate focus on supporting our community colleges in the same way.
▶ 0:56:13I would love to see the strengthening community college training grants program really be expanded to support capacity building of institutions around how effective practices you know, the national science foundation has the advanced technological education program, and they have pioneered this, uh, built model building industry leadership teams, which is a highly sophisticated way of working with industry partners in stem sectors, in the traditional advisory
▶ 0:56:43Committee, you know, industry partners might meet quarterly with a built model. They're voting on each individual knowledge, skill and ability from a 12 to 36 month time horizon. They're working with local hiring managers, strengthening community college training grants and other programs within the ed and labor department's purview could really scale that practice across our more than 900 community colleges across this country. >> um. >> I want to pose this question, but to everyone.
▶ 0:57:11But I'm waiting until later on. Each of you has talked about a quality education. I don't know what your metrics are for success of what is a quality education? What are the evaluations with regard to that?
▶ 0:57:30What are the, uh, the the oversight, um, mechanisms for you to make a determination as to whether or not a program is successful or not successful, that it is not, uh, providing the individual with the kinds of quality that you're talking about or the ability to, uh, be able to, uh, survive economically because of
▶ 0:58:01This thing. So I'm going to get to that if the chairman will allow me afterward. But my question to you, doctor hall, is, um, it's you highlight pell again, the strengthening of tribal colleges funding.
▶ 0:58:17Perkins, um, talk to me a little bit about, uh, about wioa the workforce innovation and opportunity act, uh, and, and its ability to to prepare students for the job opportunities in your region, keeping in mind that we. Oh, was going to be eliminated. I want to hear from you about wioa. >> thank you for the question. Uh, we, uh, is a program that supports a lot of native american people in our state. Mhm.
▶ 0:58:44It's also one of the only opportunities that people coming out of incarceration, coming out of treatment, people that are among the most vulnerable in our population actually benefit from those programs. Our college doesn't currently have a program, but the blackfeet manpower program does operate a program, and it provides people with opportunities not just for employment, but for training, and also eliminates, as we have done as a community, colleges, the barriers.
▶ 0:59:10We look at barriers as one of those things that we look at in order to eliminate, in order for that student and their family to have access to a higher, higher wages and opportunities for upward mobility. And a lot of times those can be found on the reservation through programs like wioa, because there's partners with the blackfeet mountain power program that support that, just like the college. >> okay.
▶ 0:59:31So we look for your loud and clear voice as we try to proceed to make sure that we can not only maintain, but increase the funding for programs like we owe and some of the others we've talked about. And I would just say I'm going to get to my other question. I guess toward the end. I'd love to have you think about it. I think since this is an appropriations committee, we spend money on these programs.
▶ 0:59:57It is important for us to know what how you define the metrics of success and define that quality education program, and what are the consequences to the benefit of the youngsters or the. And they're not youngsters. Your folks are average ages, uh, older and who have families, etc. How are we making life difficult for them? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> Mr. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Let me get my wind sock back on.
▶ 1:00:26Ah, thank you. Thank you all for being here. If there's one word I could put to your testimony, it's called passion. Uh, you're all seem very passionate about community colleges and the job that you do. And you're right there. Any essential part of the education system in this country? We talked mostly about preparing people for jobs and stuff. You do more than that, though. You prepare students for further education beyond just the community college. Right.
▶ 1:00:54I'm going to ask a couple questions of, uh, doctor hall. And it might seem a little bit off subject subject, but they're not really. Uh, and the reason I ask this, as I chair the interior subcommittee that funds the by the bia, the indian health services, indian justice, all of those types of things.
▶ 1:01:15One of the things I've been concerned about as I travel around this country and meet with tribes all over the country, and a lot of these reservations are in remote areas and stuff, trying to get doctors, dentists, nurses to go to a hospital on a on a reservation or a clinic or whatever. How do we get those people back there? How many community colleges are there? Uh, tribal community colleges. >> there's approximately 36 accredited. >> 36. >> yes.
▶ 1:01:45>> and I've always believed that the the way you're going to do it and the reason that being a dentist in a previous life, one of the. I know what debt you get when you get out of dental school and stuff, going to work on a reservation for public health services or whatever, you're not going to make enough money to pay off your student loans, frankly. And so it's hard to get people out there on the reservation to do these, to do these jobs.
▶ 1:02:06And I've always believed that the way you're going to solve this problem, ultimately, is to get tribal members, um, and send them to nursing school, to dental school, to medical school, whatever, because they're more likely to return to their tribe and help their tribes out. Is that an accurate assessment, do you think. >> we call it grow our own?
▶ 1:02:24And growing your own workforce requires an investment in them to stay in the community, but they need opportunity to garner that education while in the community. So we've leveraged a lot of online learning partnerships with with partner institutions. Um, university of montana western is one of those elementary education teachers. We've flooded the market locally in schools with over 100 new teachers over the last seven years.
▶ 1:02:52There's been a lot of really important, um, leaning into some of the lessons we learned over the pandemic and leaning into that online learning apparatus has been really successful in giving them the access that they need to perform those duties in the schools. Um, we also have a hybridized nursing program to the point about how far do you go to go to a school? We have a nursing student that comes from cascade, montana, 120 miles away from browning.
▶ 1:03:21And the hybridized program works because she can attend, uh, the, you know, attend to her duties at home with her family and with her employment there. But she can also be, uh, in our campus at clinical sites around the state and looking and working in our skills lab. And so in order to do all of that, we need the capabilities which we do have. And through those capabilities, we're also looking at growing our own trades professionals as an aging workforce.
▶ 1:03:49But we also find value in those aging professionals being a part of that, as mentors, as people in the community that can instill some of those values, the work ethic and the skills that those individuals need to perform well and make livable wages so that their families can be successful. >> thank you. And thank you for all that you do that all of you do. It's very important.
▶ 1:04:11I'll be up to montana this summer, uh, to visit with you and talk about how we can advance this and stuff, because it's very important if we're going to address the long term needs on reservations and stuff. But, you know, the old days of being able to and you all know this, the old days of having a job, uh, going to work, getting a pension, working there for 40 years and retiring or gone anymore. And I've always wondered, how is someone in salmon, idaho, a town of about 2000? That is a long ways from anywhere.
▶ 1:04:39Somebody retires, they they lose their job and they need upgraded skills. How are they going to get those? They've got a spouse, three kids and a mortgage. They can't just pick up and go to isu or to boise state or, you know, to one of our four year institutions. And you guys are are filling that role that these people need. And so I appreciate everything that you do. And, uh, thank you for being here today and look forward to working with you to solve some of these challenges that we're going to face in the future. Thank you.
▶ 1:05:12>> thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Thank you for having this hearing. Um, I think one thing I think I can speak for all the committee, we all believe the community colleges are critically important. Um, I have an agenda that I've articulated since 2010 called make it in america. Uh, it comes from the popularity of made in america that we make things here. I suggest we change that to make it in america, because what made in america is what we did yesterday.
▶ 1:05:42Make it in america has two meanings. Number one, you produce this bottle, but number two, you succeed and you succeed because you're have a skill, knowledge that you need to be competitive and job worthy. So I'm just going to ask you one question. I want each one of you to answer it. And I should have asked it a week ago. So you had time to think about it.
▶ 1:06:09We cut community college funding in half in the house of representatives. The bill we sent to the senate, we cut 1.8 billion out of a 3.8 billion budget for fiscal year 25.
▶ 1:06:25I'm interested in knowing, and I think the committee needs to know if we had, in fact, passed the house bill and it became law and we cut $1.882 billion from a $3.896 billion budget, essentially, perhaps not each one of the institutions cutting them in half, but cutting the resources available across the
▶ 1:06:56Board in half. What impact would that have had on your ability to, uh, make sure that people can make it in america? Start start with you, doctor simms. Just go right down the line. >> absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for that question. In the in the state of alabama, one of the things that we're really struggling with is a non participation rate, right. Of the number of employees, people who should be working who are not. And why aren't they they working.
▶ 1:07:23They're not working because of barriers such as childcare, transportation, just basic barriers or not being able to find have the time to upskill, to access a job, the training that's required for a job, for a livable wage. And so the support the nontraditional students, the students that we serve requires a different level of support. It's not a traditional high school student that can just go on on a pathway.
▶ 1:07:49We have to consider they are usually one car breaking down, one child sick, missing a class from stopping out. Right. And so the in addition to the infrastructure that we need to that we've that we've discussed already to be responsive to industry as it changes so rapidly, we've got to have resources to to hire, to retain the talent, to train the individuals that need to work.
▶ 1:08:16We can't compete with the industry, salaries that we surround, that we're surrounded with. So we have to find creative partnerships with industry to do that. Then we have to then support the students. So we really are we are the liaison to to plugging and meeting all of those needs. And so the impact of faculty, student support and infrastructure, all the things and professional development, all those things that we need to deliver, that is all those areas are impacted, which is every corner of my campus.
▶ 1:08:47>> would have been undermined. Doctor hall. >> let me first start by saying that universities do not get any college funding, but not that you. I will say you're mike flood. Oh. >> I'm sorry. >> um, over the last year it's been very difficult because as a predominantly federally funded institution, it is hard to plan when we have uncertainty.
▶ 1:09:16It's also very important to note that these delays in federal funding harm jobs of people that serve our students. They even harm students, uh, in investment in our college and in their coming to our our college as wanting to get ahead in life as a small rural institutions where access is pretty much the only place where they can within 200mi, these temporary instabilities
▶ 1:09:47That have been caused are really, really important. And they have had impact on retention, and they've also really hindered, in some cases, student confidence in our institutions. Am I going to have a program to go to if funding doesn't come through? Am I going to have a job if I'm a faculty or student support staff member, who's not going to who uh, makes their that their career and their life? These are the things that we have stressed over the last year.
▶ 1:10:17And this year has really been tough for tribal colleges specifically because we do not get that additional support. And I must say, we are also chronically underfunded in multiple, many, many areas. One time funding from title three is just that. It's one time funding. And although we were grateful to receive that and it's and it is at work, we really would like to see that in a more consistent basis and that the predominantly most of our a lot of our funds are forward funded.
▶ 1:10:46Um, but as we are weighing the scales here and trying to determine what the future of our college looks like, we're very hopeful that workforce pell will give us a lot of jet fuel to fuel these workforce programs, but the uncertainty and somewhat, uh, the instability in decision making about how our colleges are funded, we have to be at the forefront with our colleagues to make sure that we are also represented. Thank you.
▶ 1:11:15>> thank you for the question, representative hoyer. Um, I think it would be critical, uh, critically detrimental to the, uh, opportunities that colleges provide students and workers if, if their funding were to be cut. Um, I the making in america, to me, really resonates from the standpoint of expanding access to economic opportunity, but ultimately, security.
▶ 1:11:38And our community colleges are really unique because 47.5% of us work for small and medium sized businesses in this country and community colleges. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, they serve main street. They serve the industry partners that power our communities. Without that funding, that keeps that infrastructure in place, there's not an ability to deliver on their promise.
▶ 1:12:03Um, now I will say, you know, there's also something that to be underscored here around the the underserved populations that community colleges help uplift as well. Uh, student parents, veterans, um, returning adults who are coming back from career pivots or needing some upskilling, including in light of changes to the labor market due to ai that's going to increase in the coming years.
▶ 1:12:29I was just in miami for the national applied ai consortium meeting. It was hosted at miami-dade college in partnership with houston community college and maricopa community college district in arizona. We had 400 community college leaders who had come together to to learn about how they build their capacity to respond to the the ai, uh, moment that we're facing in many parts of this country. So I think it would be critical if those resources were to be lost for these institutions.
▶ 1:13:02>> briefly, just where time is running out. But he just briefly answered, yes. >> uh. >> yes, Mr. chairman, I sit here thinking about it. It's not a wonderful thought at all. I'm thinking I'm thinking, where on earth would we cut? We're stretching everything as thin as we possibly can. We're going out to industry, asking for assistance, asking for equipment donations. The equipment to train our students is extremely expensive.
▶ 1:13:22And how and if we have these cuts, there's a regional metric that we talk about all the time with doctor haygood, our president, which is for every five individuals leaving the workforce, we have two skilled people to replace them. How could we make that change if we had those funding cuts? I don't know how we would do it. Thank you. >> Mr. clyde. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for appearing in our subcommittee today. Uh, I'm a huge fan of community and technical colleges.
▶ 1:13:52I want you to know that right up front. I believe community colleges are on the front lines of preparing america's workforce. If we're serious about an america first agenda, we must ensure that any federal investment in education actually prepare americans for good paying jobs that strengthen our economy and our national security. Indeed, community colleges across the country are delivering tangible results. We see models rooted in local control, employer alignment, and measurable return on investment.
▶ 1:14:19These colleges are not chasing ideological trends and squandering taxpayer dollars. Instead, they are training nurses, welders, line workers, cdl drivers and skilled technicians the very backbone of our national economy. I'd like to recognize one such institution in my own backyard, linear technical college in gainesville, georgia.
▶ 1:14:39Linear tech exemplifies exactly what community colleges can and should be a direct pipeline from classroom to career for students across northeast georgia. And I want to congratulate linear tech's president, tim mcdonald, on a remarkable milestone the establishment of a $1 million, privately funded scholarship created in his honor, a testament to the impact that he has had on students and the broader community that he has served so well.
▶ 1:15:06You know, at the same time that we are seeing incredible roi from community colleges for decades, federal higher education spending in four year institutions has grown dramatically, saddling students with debt and degrees that do not necessarily translate into jobs. Taxpayers deserve to know that every dollar appropriated strengthens workforce participation, supports high demand industries, and enhances american self-reliance, not bureaucracy.
▶ 1:15:34So we must focus on what works. State led initiatives, strong partnerships with employers, flexible pathways like short term credentials and apprenticeships, and accountability tied to tangible results such as employment rates, wage gains and filling critical labor shortages in trades, health care, manufacturing and energy. So, um, doctor hall and doctor simms, both.
▶ 1:15:59Um, before we get into the importance of community colleges, I want to ask you something directly relevant to the work that blackfeet community college does in serving its students. Uh, if you were not aware, uh, in the justice department appropriation, there is a carve out in the violence against women act campus grant program that reserves half of the $25 million of available funding specifically for hbcus and tribal colleges like yours.
▶ 1:16:26And the amendment actually says 25 million is for grants to reduce violent crimes against women on campus as authorized, of which 12.5 million is for grants to historically black colleges and universities, hispanic serving institutions and tribal colleges and universities. So.
▶ 1:16:50So if half of the funding is set aside for less than 5% of all colleges, then someone seems to think that there is a violence against women issue at these specific types of colleges and universities. So my question to you is, are you seeing a significant increase in violence against women on your campuses? Is that something that that I mean, when you talk to presidents of other colleges like yours, is that something that you're seeing? I'm not seeing that in the news, but I'm just I mean, you would know better than me.
▶ 1:17:18I mean, would are you seeing anything like that? >> based on our data, there is no, uh, nothing in the last three years that I've been president. Okay. However, we live in a community that often deals with those matters, those issues. Okay? And oftentimes those funnel in to those experiences of those students. Sometimes that lead those types of things lead to them not continuing on with their education.
▶ 1:17:47Um, on the programmatic side, I know that there's a large need for more law enforcement training, um, nurse training, especially with sexual assaults, are concerned, uh, but also community awareness about how to respond to things like human trafficking and other matters. >> doctor simms, are you seeing a large increase in violence against women on your campuses? >> I have a similar story that we don't see that that does not happen on our campus. Okay. We get the residuals of that. Those are the students.
▶ 1:18:16They experience those. They have those experiences at home. And so they bring that with them to the campus. And so we do have to support them if they're going to continue their education okay. It's not a direct impact, but we have to. >> okay. Well thank you I appreciate that. Um, doctor simms, you made it clear that expanding debt free technical education is central to changing the economic trajectory of your students, many of whom are working adults. From your experience at drake state community and technical college.
▶ 1:18:45Uh, how can we better incentivize industry partnerships that help cover tuition costs or provide paid, work based learning opportunities so students can complete workforce programs without taking on any additional debt? Specifically federal debt. Although I although you said that you really don't offer federal debt, correct. >> no, we do not participate in the federal loan program. And again, we've been able to structure partnerships.
▶ 1:19:13And so your support in in continuing the strengthening community college programs, your workforce payroll could be tremendous. It could be transformational in providing the access that's needed and the metrics that are being set forth whereby workforce pale. The programs have to align directly with industry need, I mean, should earn the confidence of industry partners and of the public that we're doing the work.
▶ 1:19:39And we are directly aligning the programs that we're offering with placement. I heard someone mention, what does success look like? Looks like it looks like students in jobs earning wages, not not jobs on career paths. Yes. Where they can continue to grow, continue to learn and earn. And so, um, that's where we land with with the funding. If we continue to support pell grant workforce, pell fund pale, because that access is critical for the students that we serve.
▶ 1:20:07That's the only way many of the students that we serve will have access to an education. And so and it is unfair to add additional debt when they've already had that experience. And it has not turned out well for them and their families. >> well thank you. I agree that additional debt is not something that we want to see them have. So thank you. I yield back. >> thank you. Thank you, Mr. spokane. Um, and thank you all for being here. My, uh, I live in palm beach county.
▶ 1:20:36We have a fantastic state college, palm beach state college. Ava parker is a really extraordinary leader. I've done a lot of projects with that college. I'm going to I have two questions. I'm going to ask them both at the same time. If you feel comfortable, you don't have to answer both.
▶ 1:20:52But, uh, my first question is going to be if, uh, ai and quantum technologies are driving the future economy, how do we make sure that community colleges are equipped to train the workforce at scale, and what a federal investment would move the needle faster? That's going to be my first question. My second question is in my county, there was a lot of building of new hospitals.
▶ 1:21:15And, uh, that's the bricks and the mortars, the, uh, what I am concerned about and like to know from you is, uh, the what is the quality team that, that a hospital needs, uh, the different professions. So what kind of programs, uh, can the community colleges provide to make sure that that workforce is available? Who wants to start?
▶ 1:21:46>> I can address the first question. Possibly. You know, ai is something something that certainly is concerning. Right. And so when we're recruiting, uh, students, uh, whether or, you know, nontraditional students and, and over the past, as we've pushed people to, uh, to get a four year degree, and no matter what it is in, that's going to be their path forward. However, the truth is, ai is coming for those people. We've been telling everybody for 20 years to learn to code.
▶ 1:22:14Ai is coming for the coders, what we're trying to and what we're trying to make, uh, aware to our students, high school and otherwise. Ai is not coming for the welders. They're not coming for the steamfitters, the pipefitters, the electricians, the plumbers. Uh, they're not coming for those. So.
▶ 1:22:30And if we look at wages and the demand for these jobs, I mean, you can it's hard to tell a 20 year old that's is building, uh, a ships and submarines down in mobile, alabama, that's making right at six figures that that's not meaningful to them. And so I think what we need to do, what we're going to continue to do is educate, uh, make aware these opportunities are available and be much aware of what ai could possibly take away from you, because we're seeing that every single day.
▶ 1:22:59And this is I think that's certainly something that we're going to continue with. >> uh, could someone answer the question in terms of what we can do to train people to be ready to use use ai and quantum? >> yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much for the question, representative franco. Um, you know, I think this would be an imperative for the department of education and the department of labor's, uh, perkins program, the strengthening community college training grants.
▶ 1:23:23And then I'd also add into the mix, um, increased focus on the employer skills training fund and how the employer strategies can connect back to the community colleges. I was heartened to see a focus in the recent solicitation from the department of labor around meeting ai labor market needs, in particular, um, for for that program. You know, I mentioned I was recently in miami for the national applied ai consortium.
▶ 1:23:52This is a community by community colleges, for community colleges that has really generated some best practices and building out the capacity for community colleges to respond to the ai moment. They support upskilling of instructors. They support curriculum development. I had put together the the industry session with openai, google, microsoft and intel, who have all committed financial resources to the community college sector around ai workforce development.
▶ 1:24:23Community colleges are going to be the vehicle we need in this country to help people not get left behind. There's the upskilling opportunity for incumbent workers, and there's the opportunity to help students who are entering the workforce. For the first time, I had spoken with, um jasmine dora, a graduate of miami-dade college's ai program, uh, who was in the very first crop of of graduates from miami-dade's ai programs.
▶ 1:24:50And, um, you know, the stories that she shared about what the community college program afforded her and students like her was really inspiring to hear. Um, in terms of other specific ideas, you know, I mentioned in my testimony that inter-agency collaborations are, uh, an opportunity for uh, appropriators to to strengthen links across the government. I point to the department of energy's genesis mission.
▶ 1:25:16I had met with the delegation of community colleges to think about how community colleges fit into the genesis mission at energy, uh, the national science foundation's uh technology, innovation and partnerships directorate has been doing a lot of outstanding work on ai, r&d and innovation programs. We have the commerce department and all of the work they're doing there with with nist. So, um, I would encourage more inter-agency collaborations.
▶ 1:25:43That means joint solicitations, technical assistance, coordination, as well as strategy coordination across the across the gamut. >> all right. Thank you. Two very interesting answers. But thank you both both valuable. I'll have to get the other question answered another time. But thank you so much very much I yield back okay. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And thanks to our witnesses, um, pell grants have been a lifeline for students working to earn a college degree for lower income students. Uh, like I was because I got pell grants when I went to college.
▶ 1:26:13Uh, it provides financial support for essential college costs, including books and equipment, obviously, tuition and other necessary supplies at public two year institutions. Pell can cover substantial amount of expenses, and studies have shown that government recoups the cost of pell grants in only ten years. Uh, because recipients graduate, earn higher wages, pay more taxes, and rely less on services.
▶ 1:26:37Um, given the increased pell uptake due to the fafsa completion, there's projected to be a pell shortfall. And I know it's 5 billion this year. And I was just talking to someone mentioned might be 12 billion in the upcoming year. Um, I have a bill with education workforce ranking member bobby scott that would expand pell grants. But, uh, given that shortfall, uh, two questions.
▶ 1:27:02And I think, you know, doctor hall, you wrote in your remarks and robert powell and I also like to hear from doctor sims and Mr. morgan, just with the institutions here. Um, can you share the importance of pell grants to your students, specifically how it helps to your institution when they have those dollars? And secondly, what would happen if we don't have some kind of way to make up for that shortfall in pell grants? So, doctor hall.
▶ 1:27:28>> well, um, I also commented that without the pill, a lot of our students would not have basic access to a higher education, to workforce training, to even getting in the door of our college. You know, we are it's a high representative number. You know, 67% of our students get that.
▶ 1:27:49Now generationally, that is also an issue because if you get an education and you then have children, they don't qualify for the same level of access that you do. It doesn't mean they don't make any more money, doesn't mean that they're they're filthy rich from the opportunities that have been afforded to them. What it means is that oftentimes the cost of education defeats the purpose of pursuing one.
▶ 1:28:12And so that's why we at blackfeet community college subsidize and don't offer loans and don't provide these additional burdens on students, because we know that that's going to be the difference between them completing and getting a job and then not completing and not getting a job in an area that is in high need in our community.
▶ 1:28:31Um, as far as, uh, when, when we issue pell grants to students, um, it allows them to also cover living expenses because they normally, if you're full time student, you're not working full time, you're not making that full wage. Every little bit helps to allow them to be forward. On top of pell grants, we offer emergency aid that comes in really, um, good.
▶ 1:28:55Especially when that car breaks down or you have a laptop malfunction and it doesn't work. Those are the kind of things that we try and use to keep students going. And those little things really do help in persistence. And they also help in that student, uh, having the confidence that they can learn in a classroom that they have the tools that they can learn.
▶ 1:29:18Um, and as we're looking at things like ai, you know, I'm talking I'm, I'm in favor of us expanding on that. It's it's a good tool for instruction. It also, um, is increasing productivity, not just in students, but employees, faculty, uh, saving time. But I really feel like things like the pell grant also have a huge impact on students with disabilities and who are differently abled. And, uh, those are highly represented in our community as well. Thank you.
▶ 1:29:47So overall, the pell grant is very important for us, our students and our longevity of education, our community. >> thank you, doctor sims. >> we have a very similar story. It it concerns me greatly to think that we would not be able to serve students, and my students would not have access to pell grant. Um, we and the interesting thing is, for some, we've even looked at how it impacts our community because at one of our local high schools with over a 90% eligibility rate, there were about 200 applications.
▶ 1:30:17Some students still people. There are people who still don't know that they're pell. Pell grants are available. And so the education piece that you mentioned, that's critically important to to informing students about the opportunity, because simply we need them in the workforce, we need them trained. We I'm convinced that we have the talent. And so the challenge is to give that talent access to the appropriate training and put them in the workforce. And so we work really hard to supplement pell grants.
▶ 1:30:46We've set up a foundation during my tenure, and I, we raised money for scholarships, and we call them scholarships to ensure that a student does not have to stop out because they can't pay whatever's left after the after the pell grant. Because honestly, with the cost, again, our students, it costs more. So there are additional costs associated with their attending.
▶ 1:31:08And so and we too as far as ai, we train, we encourage ai proof programs for a plumber hvac person. You've got to have a body to show up so our students know that. But for our students who are in programs like health care programs who can be impacted by ai, it's important that we have the technology and the infrastructure to introduce them to those changes that are coming so that they'll be prepared. >> thank you. And my time is up, Mr. morgan. So but I appreciate you being here as well.
▶ 1:31:36Thank you. >> thank you think. >> thank you, chairman. And I thank you for holding this important hearing. Uh, I have to tell you, chairman, um, and our witnesses, I'm a former professor. I taught for ten years at a school in philadelphia. I was a professor of writing, rhetoric and ethics. So I share your passion for educating young people. And sometimes not so young people.
▶ 1:32:06Uh, I also am a partial product of community colleges. Uh, I was able to take community college courses in my montgomery county, uh, area when I was younger, and I benefited greatly from that. So a shout out to montgomery county community college in my area, and also reading area community college to excellent places of getting education, uh, in the previous congress, I was proud to introduce america's college promise alongside mike levin.
▶ 1:32:35Uh, that legislation would have made community college tuition free for students nationwide, helping to remove these barriers. We're talking about in terms of cost. Uh, and doctor hall, what you just said with such clarity, I'm going to see if I can find it. What you just said with such clarity. You said often the cost of education defeats the purpose of getting one. Uh, it couldn't be said much more clearly than that.
▶ 1:32:59Uh, I'm thinking about the pell grants, and you just began to answer through representative pokemon's questions about pell grants. Uh, they've been capped, if I have it right at 73, 95 since the 2324 cycle, despite inflation, despite rising costs of living, uh, and all that our students are struggling with. So in addition to what you were all talking about, Mr. morgan, maybe you didn't have a chance to to speak to this issue of pell grants in the meaning of them.
▶ 1:33:28How would increasing the maximum pell grant work for your students? What opportunities would that open up? Uh, in addition to just making sure more and more of our students know about them. So maybe I'll start on this side. Mr. morgan, since you we ran out of time before. >> uh, thank you for the question. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, with our vast, you know, footprint that we have of 4600mi within that large radius, over 70% of our citizens are work or pell eligible.
▶ 1:33:57That is a massive amount of individuals that are eligible to kind of tells you the need that we have in northwest rural alabama. If we extended or increased the pell, I mean, that takes care of tuition. That's which is great. The other but the other barriers, transportation, childcare, other unknown expenses that are inevitable, right. It's going to happen. That could help with some of those things as well as as they are progressing through for their credential or their degree or what have you.
▶ 1:34:23So, uh, I think it's incredibly important that if we can get more and there's additional funding, that's just that's going to just increase more opportunity and take less of the stress away from that individual, because so many folks that are on pell that are in our classrooms, they're working. It could be full time. They got more than one job. They have children. There's so much responsibilities. If we can help alleviate any more of that stress and make that pathway a little bit clearer and easier, the better for that student.
▶ 1:34:53>> I saw that with my own students and I'm out of the classroom now 12, 13 years. But I saw that same juggle, that same unaffordability, um, doctor sims. >> I completely agree. I think we can also see increases in student performance based on having some of those barriers addressed.
▶ 1:35:13And we know that that increases persistence so students can continue their education without having to stop out every other semester to catch up, which in turn increases our retention as well as our graduation rates. And so all of those reduce barriers. And on my campus campus, 83% of my students are pell eligible and participate in the program. So it has a significant impact on my student population. >> and I just wanted to give a chance. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:35:39Joshi, um, uh, we have, uh, in my district, johnson and johnson is, uh, putting up a new manufacturing, high tech manufacturing facility providing more than 500 biotech jobs. So I'm wondering, uh, in terms of the work that you are doing, uh, and that your group is doing, uh, what role would does community colleges play in preparing the workforce for that kind of high tech, uh, pharmaceutical manufacturing?
▶ 1:36:09>> thank you very much for the question, representative dean, I would say a critical role community colleges play a really important component in our bio economy. Uh, we've seen the expansion of biotech programs at the degree level and the non-degree level in, uh, more than half of us states, community colleges actually are starting to offer applied four year degrees. Baccalaureates community college, baccalaureates to meet the bioeconomy needs.
▶ 1:36:36I had a really fascinating, um, exchange with genentech in san diego, uh, and their collaborations with miracosta college to create one of the very first cb's in this country to meet biotech needs. And what genentech told me, I believe I cited this in my written testimony, is that community colleges are an optimal partner for workforce training for the biotech space because they're willing to flex, they're willing to work with industry partners, and they're willing to collaborate in ways that for years sometimes struggle to do.
▶ 1:37:07And I thought that was just really inspiring. And I would imagine that expanded resources would lead to more stories just like that at the non-degree and degree level. >> agree. And thank you, doctor hall, for your great clarity. And as an appropriator, I'm excited to be an appropriator. I want to see that we do everything we possibly can to fully fund at the federal level, when we can fully fund all of the endeavors that you are taking good care of. Uh, it's exciting to be in your company. Thank you.
▶ 1:37:40>> thank you so much to everyone coming here to testify today. Um, I'm a former college community college professor myself, and I know that community colleges are just such a backbone of social mobility. Uh, and america's workforce development. So thank you for all that you do. Uh, these institutions do something that no other part of our education system does, which is meet employers where they are train workers for the jobs that actually exist in those communities.
▶ 1:38:10Uh, and I think that it is only at the beginning, uh, of what we can actually be able to achieve with our community college system. There's so much more potential. Uh, specifically, I think that designing a successful career program is only the first step. Once something works, we have to do a better job of scaling it up. How can we take proven success stories like some of the ones we've heard today?
▶ 1:38:33Uh, from local examples to regional and national solutions to our workforce shortage issues? To give you one example, in my district, san joaquin delta community college has something called project hope, which is a nursing program that deals with our nursing shortage and is run in close coordination with local employers.
▶ 1:38:57Uh, they take folks that have been on the job in some cases for, for decades, uh, maybe even a local janitor who has worked but has qualifications. They put that person through nursing school at delta college, and then they're able to work at the hospital, uh, where just a couple of years earlier, they might have been doing the cleaning. Now they're taking the vitals and helping the patients directly. It's an incredible success story. It graduates more than 160 nurses annually.
▶ 1:39:26Um, the only thing missing is federal resources to help scale more programs like that across the country. Um, we've done a lot of hard work identifying the workforce shortages, designing programs that work. Uh, but we we still see only pockets of success and not the sustained effort that I think is necessary. So, uh, doctor sims, my first question is for you. Strengthening community college training grants are one of the few federal tools aimed at scaling proven career and technical education models.
▶ 1:39:55How can we make sure that more successful programs can access this funding at scale? >> thank you for that question. And we have a similar program with our lp and lunch program with the huntsville hospital system in the state of alabama, where we provide opportunities for individuals who have been in careers such as phlebotomists medication assistance, and they have an opportunity to earn their way into nursing positions.
▶ 1:40:19And so and that program has been incredibly successful because it is it was based directly on the demand from industry. And we have we've identified individuals in the community who can benefit. And so opportunities for us to to highlight and scale those partnerships through direct funding, through the expansion of the strengthening community college training grants will allow us to scale. We have the proven models, we've proven the success of these programs.
▶ 1:40:47And so to be able to scale them would be incredible because we can provide someone that we mentioned earlier, the suite of careers associated with health care professionals from from the cnas, the phlebotomist to the registered nurses all the way to bsn. Our colleges can do that work.
▶ 1:41:05And so as we as you consider your work and expanding the opportunities for which we can qualify, programs that have proven demonstrated success in the areas that would allow us to scale these programs, these proven models for our communities. >> I thank you, mister chair. Tisha, uh, what is missing from, uh, the federal toolkit in order to scale up more of these models, uh, more successfully across the country.
▶ 1:41:35>> something I might put a fine point on is, um, you know, the need for technical assistance. Many colleges develop some of these best practices for workforce training without being able to connect with one another. We've seen this firsthand in our accelerator for community colleges in the innovation economy, with the national science foundation. If the department of education and labor could foster more support for colleges in implementing these high impact practices, that would be something that would go a mile further.
▶ 1:42:04In addition to the expansion of resources to support the creation of programs. You know, the other thing I might say in response to representative delauro's question as well, with regards to quality outcomes, I think it's always amazing how our colleges, um, not only help folks find a job, but but ultimately economic security and more impact practices that could lead to that outcome, defined as people earning a local living wage.
▶ 1:42:33Whether you use the mit living wage calculator or the alice calculator or what have you, that's what we need. Unfortunately, there are some occupations in this country where you work full time in early childhood education or in some health care sectors where you don't earn a local living wage. And that is not a challenge our community colleges can solve on their own. That is a labor market challenge.
▶ 1:42:57But I wanted to put that out there for the record that, um, this this outcomes component is critical, but it's also sometimes difficult in light of the way our labor market structured. But to go back to the question, I would I would point to technical assistance as a bit of a gap. And I think interagency collaboration could also unlock some of those. I think there's a lot that could be done with department of labor working with nsf, ag, uh, energy, some of these other agencies that that do this. Well. >> thank you so much.
▶ 1:43:26And I yield back. >> okay. Well, well, I want to thank all of our panel. Um, Mr. morgan, uh, Mr. joe tishy, uh, doctor hall, doctor sims, thank you all for what you bring. Literally bring to the table, uh, and, uh, the work that you do and I think you have seen by the conversation that we've had today, uh, that you have a lot of friends here in washington and, and the congress for community and technical colleges. So we look forward to working with you. And with that, we are adjourned.
▶ 1:43:56Oh, would you please. I'm sorry. Let me. >> thank you so much, Mr. chairman. And I know, um, we're coming to a conclusion here, the issue of quality education and what that is, the definition of that is critically important to this committee. I say that because, um, we we have to, uh, there is a prioritization of programs, uh, etc. We need to know what works. What is your methodology of being able to define that quality education?
▶ 1:44:25Quite frankly, I get tired of hearing people talk about programs about which they think are good, bad or indifferent, and they don't know jack about whether or not this program is working, what difference it makes in people's lives, etc. So that your definition of that and what we can do about that really is critical.
▶ 1:44:42And I hope you can get back to us through the chairman, that kind of that kind of information when we're making the determination of, of where we're going to put our federal dollars. Let me just make one quick comment about the workforce, pell grants. You heard what I said in my opening remarks. I want to support, uh, I'm a strong supporter of pell. You know, I have been for a very long time and increasing the amount. I don't want it to be flat. I think we should continue to increase it.
▶ 1:45:12Um, uh, this offers a short term programs. It potentially. This is where we get to quality my friends. It can lead to the proliferation of low quality programs, specifically those that are ordered out. Just be frank by predatory online for profit companies. You know, they they draw in, people say, oh, it's a quick six week, eight week program, ten week program, and it gives you nothing on the other side of it.
▶ 1:45:43This was this concept was pushed through, um, the reconciliation bill. And it was I was in a party line vote. I don't want to get get to that. But it was a party line vote to doing that. But what we need to do is to have input. This is not a partizan issue. This is an issue for us to face nationwide. So we need to figure out what it is that is going to require on. This is input from both sides of the aisle.
▶ 1:46:11Um, this appropriations committee is responsible for funding pell grants and making sure that the programs work as we pass the bills in a bipartisan way. And with that kind of cooperation, I want, uh, we need and we need your help with the stronger guardrails, uh, for these short term workforce pell grants as we move forward.
▶ 1:46:39And that would be a critical ingredient for us, I think, to share that that the bipartisan support that we need to make this work. I thank you very, very much for what you do. Strong believer in community colleges. I really do think you're the you know, you are the answer to millions of young people and older people to be able to succeed economically. So thank you for what you do. Appreciate you. >> thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:47:09Laurel lee, and thank you to each again. We look forward to working with you and, uh, how we can work with you with community and technical colleges and, uh, with that, we're dismissed.