▶ 0:10:44The subject of today's hearing is fiscal year 2027 budget request for us capitol police. I'd like to thank ranking member espaillat, ranking member rosa delauro and our subcommittee members for being here today. Chief sullivan, we welcome you to your first appearance before this subcommittee, and we appreciate your willingness to serve as our chief of police. We look forward to hearing your testimony today.
▶ 0:11:06The fiscal year 27 request is $1 billion, 23 million, primarily supporting continued growth to both sworn and civilian personnel, a 12% increase over the fiscal year 26 level and an increase over 37% in general expenses. The request also includes new multi-year requests of 15.7 million for it and physical security modernization.
▶ 0:11:33While I tend to keep my comments brief, I want to again take this opportunity to express our continued gratitude to the officers of the united states capitol police. Thank you all for what you do to keep our campus safe and for all those who visit and work here. I now yield to ranking member espaillat for his opening remarks. >> thank you. >> I would like to thank chief sullivan for being here today.
▶ 0:11:58I look forward to hearing more about the needs of the capitol police and the capitol police officers that are here. Thank you for what you do every day. But first, Mr. chairman, I would like to address our last hearing with the library. The librarian of congress and government publishing offices. It is absolutely unacceptable that both ranking member delauro and I were gaveled down while attempting to make remarks at the end of that hearing.
▶ 0:12:27In congress, there is an expectation of decorum and respect that should be given, regardless of our party line. Mr. chairman, I believe that this should be especially true in this legislative branch subcommittee, which has a rich tradition of bipartisan work. Congress still holds the power of the purse, despite the president's attempts to unilaterally make cuts across the federal government.
▶ 0:12:52It is important now more than ever that appropriators are able to speak with witnesses to understand the needs of our agencies. Uh, this administration is making a concentrated effort to whitewash american history. National monuments are being altered to erase the existence and contributions of marginalized community.
▶ 0:13:16We have a responsibility to the american people to ask witnesses, particularly the librarian of congress, how these actions impact these agencies. Now, we have here today the chief of of police, chief sullivan.
▶ 0:13:33And back in 2022, we passed language mandating congress to install a plaque honoring the lives of the men and women that protected us during the january 6th assault on democracy. And we failed to do this on this side of the aisle. We failed to do this on this subcommittee. In fact, this past week, the senate did that.
▶ 0:14:02The senate did that after we passed language in 2022 to honor the men and women that are here today. And so I, I want to formally invite you, chief, for a walk to this plaque that we will have at 115 today in the senate side, because we couldn't do it here in the house side.
▶ 0:14:24And yet, uh, when we tried to speak to the agencies and at least in this last meeting that we had, the chairman obstructed our ability to do so. And so I want to just be on the record that all of us, as duly elected members of congress, should have the, uh, responsibility and the ability to speak at the end of each session and address the members
▶ 0:14:54Of the agency that come before us. It is simple decorum. It is decency. That's what we should be doing in this committee. We should be working, uh, to have results. And the only way we do that is by respecting each other's rights. I yield back, Mr. chairman. >> thank you. Mr. speaker, I now yield five minutes to, uh, ranking member delauro for her opening remarks. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:15:21Um, and and thank you to you, ranking member espaillat. Uh, and just a note, I, uh, associate myself with the remarks of my colleagues as to decorum, uh, that we have all practice, uh, in the, uh, in our hearings and, uh, that we do recognize, um, members of the committee who want to express a view and, uh, we, we know that it gets busy or there's a time slot and so forth, but members, uh, and
▶ 0:15:52Particularly ranking member should be accommodated to make any comments, uh, that he or she would like to make in these meetings. I think it's just appropriate, uh, and it's the right thing to do. Uh, and I hope we can go forward with that kind of a view. I know it's true in every subcommittee that I get to, it's always a labor h, which I'm about to head off to in a couple of minutes. Mr.
▶ 0:16:19Aderholt, uh, always provides me at the end with a period of time in which I may make a comment. So, um, chief sullivan, I want to say a thank you to you for taking the time to testify here today. We can't we can't fully express to you and your officers the immense gratitude we have for everything you do each and every day to keep us safe. Uh, all of this in this room are acutely aware of the threat environment that the capitol police confront.
▶ 0:16:462025, threats to us, our families, our staff, and the capitol itself increased for a third year in a row. In 2022, there were just over 7500 threats investigated by the us capitol police. As of last year, that number has roughly doubled to just under 15,000. Threats investigated. I am sure every member on this panel could share their own stories of the concerning messages and outright threats that come through their offices.
▶ 0:17:19It is clear that the temperature is still rising and we must be prepared to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our staff in the event that a threat becomes a real attack every day, there are new and emerging threats that the capitol police must confront. Both cyber attacks on our digital infrastructure, physical assaults on the complex itself pose challenges that the us capitol police must be prepared to meet at a moment's notice.
▶ 0:17:46It was only a month ago today that the capitol police officers responded to a man running toward the capitol complex, wearing a tactical vest and armed with a loaded shotgun, along with additional rounds of ammunition. Officers responded as they are trained to running towards danger, apprehending the man without injury to anyone involved.
▶ 0:18:11It was yet another testament to both the courage of the us capitol police and their consummate professionalism. The increasing demand. These evolving challenges placed on the department require a corresponding investment in resources to ensure the department can carry out its duties, retain officers, hire additional staff and continue the fine work you all do to protect the institution. You protect our democracy, especially as tensions rise.
▶ 0:18:41One of the factors contributing to this growing hostility is the rewriting of history. This administration's decision to pardon every single person convicted in relation to the january 6th attack on the capitol is, and will remain a stain on our nation's history.
▶ 0:19:01The refusal to acknowledge the sacrifice of capitol police officers that day, the diminishment in whitewashing of the violence and the chaos that took place are an insult to every officers who put their life on the line to protect the democracy. We have built over 250 years. I was evacuated from the gallery of the house chamber on that day.
▶ 0:19:25And it was the capitol police that when those doors open and that we could get out, we're standing there with the insurrectionists on the floor, with the police, with their guns over them, and they moved us as quickly as they possibly could to get us to safety today, that I will never, ever forget.
▶ 0:19:51I was so glad to see last week that the architect of the capitol was finally permitted to install a plaque honoring the officers who responded that day. It was shameful that it was installed three years late, had to be done over the objections of speaker johnson, who, if he had his way, would still be blocking any commemoration. And yes, it's on the senate side.
▶ 0:20:18It was installed at 4:00 in the morning in the dead of night. And that's a question as to why. But we will march over to the plaque today and give honor to the capitol police, who saved our lives that day. I want to commend ranking member espaillat and chairman valadao for their work this past fall on the fiscal year 2026 legislative branch bill, increased funding the capitol police by $46 million.
▶ 0:20:48As we look ahead to fiscal year 2027, it is critical that we continue to increase our investment in the capitol. Please support them with the same unwavering commitment and supporting us and that they have shown to us. I thank you. I thank your officers, uh, and all of the men and women who serve the capitol police and who serve this institution. Thank you. And I yield back.
▶ 0:21:20>> thank you. Ranking member delauro. Chief sullivan, your full testimony has been submitted for the record, and you are now recognized to provide a summary of your written testimony. >> so chairman valadao, uh, ranking member delauro and sba. Uh, good morning. And all the members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss the fiscal year 2027 budget request for the united states capitol police. I want to begin with gratitude.
▶ 0:21:48Thank the subcommittee for your steady support. And thanks to the capitol police board and our oversight committees for their guidance. And most importantly, thank you to the women and men of our department. The progress that we have made belongs to them. They show up every day around the clock, committed to protecting this institution and the people who serve it.
▶ 0:22:13My priority is simple your safety, the safety of your families, your staff, and everyone who works or visits the capitol. While our officers who are on post are the most visible part of our mission, our work goes well beyond this campus.
▶ 0:22:33We rely on officers, agents, technicians, professional staff, strong intelligence and modern technology, and careful planning to protect members here and across the entire country. The threat environment continues to grow.
▶ 0:22:50In 2025, we investigated nearly 15,000 concerning statements and threats directed at the congressional community, a 58% increase from just the year before, and we're on pace to exceed that again this year. These are not just numbers. They're threats against real people. We understand how disruptive and unsettling that can be.
▶ 0:23:13That is why we are improving both how we investigate threats and how we keep your offices informed along the way. Our protective intelligence operations center is fully operational and serves as a central hub for member protection. We now have mutual aid agreements in all 50 states to be able to quickly surge resources wherever they're needed, and at the same time, we must continue to strengthen our workforce.
▶ 0:23:42We've made real progress in hiring, but the mission has expanded more protective details, more congressional events, more security requirements and more threat investigations. That has placed a strain on our staffing model and increased overtime. Overtime is part of policing, but we are very mindful of the toll that it takes.
▶ 0:24:03Our multiyear staffing plan is designed to grow responsibly, to reduce reliance on overtime, create career paths and support officer wellness. For fiscal year 2027, the department is requesting 734 million for salaries and expenses and 289 million for general expenses. The fy 27 request supports these priorities. Funding for personnel, operations, training and needed security upgrades.
▶ 0:24:33It allows us to add officers, agents, hire professional staff, modernize technology and improve communications with members offices. It also supports upgrades and security systems, communication tools, cybersecurity protections and our infrastructure, so it keeps pace with those evolving threats. In recent years, we have worked to strengthen accountability and transparency.
▶ 0:24:55We are implementing a modern case management system promoting supervisors to reinforce accountability and leadership, and building a structured program to manage our nationwide partnerships responsibly. This progress is meaningful, but it must last. Our goal is to build systems and a culture that will endure well beyond any one person's tenure.
▶ 0:25:18I remain committed to ensuring the united states capitol police provide the highest level of safety and professionalism. Thank you for your trust, your partnership, and your support of the women and men who serve this mission every day. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. >> thank you, chief sullivan, for your testimony. We'll now begin the question portion of the hearing. I will call on members based on seniority of those present.
▶ 0:25:44When the hearing was called to order, alternating between the majority and minority, followed by members in order of their arrival. Each will have five minutes. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Chief sullivan, as you noted in your statement, the department is asking for just over $1 billion in its fiscal year 2027 request. I appreciate the points you have shared with us to justify such a significant request, specifically the safety of members, staff and visitors across the capitol campus.
▶ 0:26:10A specific concern is the increase in number of threats against members. I understand that you need to take each threat seriously. However, not every threat carries the same weight in the response it requires. Can you share the number of credible threats to members during 2025? That required a significant level investigation by your officers as a credible threat? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 0:26:39So I can get the exact number of of threats, actually cases that are described as threats, but we also have direction of interest cases that that do require an additional layer of investigation. Uh, and that is why it's so important that we capture all of these, uh, many times, these direction of interest cases, cases that don't rise to prosecution.
▶ 0:27:02While they might not seem significant at the time, they add to a bigger case and are attached to somebody else who is given a threat, uh, we can break down those numbers, uh, for you and present those after the hearing. >> okay. You noted in your testimony that you have more than doubled the number of mutual aid agreements the department has with local police, with other police departments, and that now you have agreements in all 50 states. I know that you personally engage with state and local law enforcement agencies across the country. And to achieve those numbers, I'd like to congratulate you on this effort.
▶ 0:27:32What is your assessment of how these agreements are working? >> thank you for that. Uh, chairman, I just got back last week from boston, where I met with, uh, at the international association association of chiefs of police mid-year meeting with all of the state police superintendents, uh, and being able to meet with those superintendents and colonels for those organizations and have that discussion.
▶ 0:27:58Uh, we were at about 30 of those state organizations that we have mous with, which we think is very, very important. Uh, and I think that will grow after the conversation, uh, that, that put out there, you know, these mou, uh, are used in a number of ways. They're used for us to be able to, uh, surge capacity here to the capital in the national capital region, when we have major events like the state of the union. Um, but also when there's, uh, challenges across the country that we can't get U.S.
▶ 0:28:27Capitol police to, uh, we have those relationships built up. Uh, it's incredibly important to have this understanding beforehand, uh, to, to make sure that we're able to do it. And I truly believe we're in a good place. We still need to add additional, uh, people.
▶ 0:28:43One of the things that I did note when I got here and I was concerned at the growth that we had is the management and making sure that as this expands, uh, that we have accountability, uh, we built out a team to help us manage, uh, the, this program, uh, not only in the management of, of the mou and the administration of them, uh, but in the fiscal accountability as it comes to that, just because we have more mous doesn't necessarily mean
▶ 0:29:14That we will have more spend out of these funds. It will just mean that we have access to be able to use them to keep members safe. >> so do you feel are you satisfied with the current coverage in. >> we are going to continue to expand the coverage and work, uh, in areas that we know we have needs. And that's why we have a team that's reaching out across the country to, to where we believe that we have gaps that are still present.
▶ 0:29:39>> in the committee's report accompanying its fiscal year 2026 appropriations bills, we instructed the department to close the field office as it had piloted across the country. This instruction was based upon the recommendation of the capitol police board because of an insufficient return on investment. What is the status of the closure of these offices, and what plans are you developing to make this transition? >> thank you for that question. So I've been working with the capitol police board. Uh, we have had one, uh, one of our agents in the san francisco office, uh, leave the program.
▶ 0:30:10We have not backfilled that, uh, the capitol police board has asked for a briefing from the agents in the field, and that that briefing is going to be later this month. I've also asked, uh, my assistant chief in charge of the program, uh, to do an assessment of where we are and that will be, uh, presented to the capitol police board, uh, next month along with the presentation. >> all right. My time has expired. I'll now, I now recognize ranking member espaillat for his five minutes.
▶ 0:30:38>> thank you, chief, for being here again. And we are in a constrained budget environment. Um, and this committee has to always make tough decisions. Uh, so I'll be direct. Uh, uh, you have asked for more funding, and if this committee holds your budget flat for fiscal year 2027, what specifically breaks?
▶ 0:31:05I mean, what kind of services cuts are expected or what risks may increase if we hold the budget flat and we don't give you the increase that you've asked for. >> thank you for that. Uh, ranking member. So, uh, a number of things would be at risk and we'd have to make some very, very tough decisions. We think that we've, uh, presented a very lean budget that gets us to, to where we need to be.
▶ 0:31:31Uh, we have seen a exponential, uh, growing of the asks and the mission of the us capitol police. Um, our support of codels has increased by over 100% over year over year. Uh, and we don't see that slowing down, uh, going in, uh, to 26 and to 27. We see that continuing to, to excel and, and cause us challenges.
▶ 0:31:58We also have increasing pressures on, uh, different areas that we're asked to, to, uh, open, uh, or expand the mission. We, we get consistently asked to open additional doors. Uh, and just for an example, uh, for one door to open during eight hours, it costs nearly $650,000 just for that eight hour, uh, door to be open.
▶ 0:32:25So each door, uh, that we have to man with a three man and woman team, uh, it costs us $350 or $650,000. Those pressures continue to add up. And those additional expansions of what we are asked to do continues to be there. And with without this funding, we would have to make some very, very tough decisions about where we have folks to be able to do the work. >> thank you, chief, for that answer.
▶ 0:32:54Your fiscal year 27, uh, request includes a $15.1 million initiative, the security network modernization and convergence program. Could you provide an overview of the program and explain how it will enhance campus security? I'm still very much concerned about campus security for visitors, for our staff, for ourselves, and for the men and women of the capitol police.
▶ 0:33:22Um, in many ways, I still feel that we're wide open. And I want to know how this particular program will enhance security on campus. >> and certainly so, uh, this program, uh, helps us modernize our security when it, when it comes to, uh, the potential cyber attacks, uh, that, that we could experience.
▶ 0:33:46So we, it's something that we have, uh, seen across the country, uh, being able to make sure that we are prepared for those types of vulnerabilities, uh, that could potentially shut us down, uh, and not allow us to, to be able to keep this, uh, this campus safe. So it's critical to keep up with the technology as it continues to change and advance very, very quickly and stay ahead of those actors, uh, that, that wish ill of, uh, of this, uh, this place.
▶ 0:34:17>> what do you have in place right now? Let's say. So, you know, as we enter the capitol and we're waiting there to be swept, our cars to be swept, dozens, if not hundreds of people walk in, runners with backpacks, cyclists. Uh, how will you be able to detect what someone is carrying on a backpack that just walks right into the campus? >> certainly, we have an open campus.
▶ 0:34:44You know, I think that is something that is important, uh, is something that I've heard from members that is important to maintain, uh, that type of environment, uh, especially outside the buildings. Uh, that is why we have invested in, uh, making sure that, uh, we've expanded our canine ability on campus, which gives us an ability to, to be able to sweep any bags that are left in an area very, very quickly.
▶ 0:35:10Um, but also, I think you will have seen over the last several years, the increase of bicycle officers across our campus. >> is there any, uh, technology available that you have identified that will be able to keep us safe from somebody carrying, uh, an explosive in a backpack walking into our campus.
▶ 0:35:33>> we continue to explore that technology because, uh, we think that, that that's a vulnerability that we certainly do have, uh, using the technologies that we do have, uh, which is the human capital and our dogs at this point, uh, that technology, we have not found anything that, that makes us comfortable, uh, that it's ready for prime time just yet, but it's something that we continue to look forward, uh, to, uh, to bring into campus when it's ready.
▶ 0:36:02>> thank you, chief, for your testimony, Mr. chairman. I just want to be on the record of my concern about that particular scenario as we see it every day. Thank you. And I yield back. >> thank you, member sp and I now recognize Mr. lalota for his five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Chief sullivan, how are you doing? >> good. How are you doing, sir? >> sullivan is that an irish name? A little bit happy saint patrick's day, sir. >> thank you sir. >> uh, how long have you been the chief? >> uh, nine months. >> what were you doing before that, chief?
▶ 0:36:31>> I was the chief in phoenix, arizona. >> and there you were dealing with budgets and staffing and training and morale issues and things like that. Same things, dealing with those things here. >> oh, yeah. >> how's that going? >> it's going very well. This is an incredible organization with an incredible mission. >> good. But how many people are in your in your department? >> uh, sworn are sworn. Uh, population is about 2300. >> and then you have a civilian staff as well. >> yes, a little over 400. >> okay. Is that growing from the last few years? >> it continues to grow.
▶ 0:37:01>> and you're asking for a 25% budget increase for the first time ever, that you would be over $1 billion if we approve that? That's correct. Does that increase include more officers? >> it does. >> about how many? Chief. >> uh, I'll get you the exact numbers on what that number supports, but it's an increase in our protective intelligence model, which is very, uh, slim, uh, when it comes to our, our ability to protect, uh, members.
▶ 0:37:29It also, uh, it increases our, uh, across the entire us and across the entire population. I will say as of right now, um, you know, we are about 1250 in our uniform operations, which is probably the most visible part of our operations. Um, and, uh, we need significantly more about 150 more just to man the posts.
▶ 0:37:56Uh, if we were just a man, every post without using any overtime, uh, we would need nearly 150 more officers today than we currently have to be able to manage that without any overtime. Uh, certainly I'm concerned with the overtime that we put on our folks every single day. Uh, there's drafts on a consistent basis. Uh, and, and it pushes the men and women, uh, that we have, uh, to the limit.
▶ 0:38:24Another challenge that we have is currently on our first and second shifts. We staff, uh, the weekends with overtime, uh, because 92% of that work is monday through friday. That's where our greatest vulnerability is. Um, it takes 122 posts in addition to those 150 that were short, uh, just. >> to get you off, my understanding is you're able to bring in 24 recruits each month for a class. Is that right? >> that's that's correct.
▶ 0:38:53>> and have you been hitting those the 24 number recently? >> we are hitting the number of hires at 24. Uh, the number of graduate graduates varies from class to class. I've seen, uh, classes that graduate at 14. >> and my understanding is it's low and I'm not, I don't want you to lower your standards. I want you to keep your standards high. What can you do to get a higher graduation rate?
▶ 0:39:16Should we be bringing in more quality folks so that those first 24 that you're bringing in have a greater propensity to graduate without lowering the standards? >> yeah, we will not lower the standards. Uh, sir, that is something that that we absolutely need understanding, uh, why, uh, that we're losing people. And that's something that I've tasked our, our training folks to, to work on, to understand why we're losing people, because we're losing them for a variety of reasons. >> I offer you a suggestion, chief.
▶ 0:39:46I come from a law enforcement family. My dad was a cop. Both my grandfathers were cops. My brother and I served in the military. Can you lean into recruiting some military veterans? My understanding is we could be doing more there about physically appearing at places where veterans are looking to be hired. But as well, if you need an authorization or an appropriation to hire more military veterans. So they're part of those classes. My sense is that more of those folks, if we brought them in the door earlier on, would be have a greater propensity to graduate.
▶ 0:40:14If you agree with that, chief, can you do more to recruit military veterans as part of your force? >> certainly, we will look for anybody that's qualified and consistently every class that's, uh, that's one thing I see is something that we can look to expand. >> great. My understanding is your rank and file officers are unionized. >> that's correct. >> and do you work with the union? >> I do. >> how are things going there? >> there's always a tension between management and labor, but we have consistent communication and talk frequently. >> um, and how's morale amongst the officers?
▶ 0:40:44>> you know, it that's a question that I've had throughout my 30 year career and especially the last 15, as I've been in executive leadership in departments across the country. Uh, you know, my one on one, uh, conversations, uh, have been very positive.
▶ 0:40:59Uh, and when, when I have those conversations, I can tell you that there certainly are challenges when we look at the number of hours, uh, and the unpredictability of when we're asking them to work overtime in particular as, as the biggest challenge that I see out there. >> I would. >> encourage you to stay focused on that. I understand there's a strong correlation between morale and productivity, and you're in a tough job that is charged with keeping us here safe and the visitors of the capital safe, and encourage you to keep on those paths.
▶ 0:41:28Chief, I yield. >> thank you. Uh, now, I now recognize Mr. hoyer for his five minutes. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman. I want to, uh, join the ranking member in his comments, uh, with reference to the civility and, uh, courtesy that we ought to extend to one another in this committee, in other subcommittees and in the full committee. And that was not done in the last hearing. And I regret that. And, uh.
▶ 0:42:01Let's hope we have, uh, better consideration of one another going forward. Uh, chief, I'm sorry that we're in and out. We have the director of nih in front of the labor health committee. I want to pursue what may have already been talked about. Uh, but first of all, I didn't hear the answer, but I am concerned about the overtime pay. Uh, that is not considered for retirement purposes.
▶ 0:42:28And that is, I understand, is relatively unique to the capitol police. Is that accurate? >> it depends on the organization. I've had it done in different ways in different organizations that have been a part of. And it's something that we've had conversations about internally. >> um, when I say regularly, we have other federal police officers who have overtime, uh, that do have it computed for the purposes of their retirement. Is that accurate? From your knowledge?
▶ 0:42:58>> that is accurate. I've seen it done in different ways where it's a percentage of overtime, uh, you know, of up and beyond, uh, what your base salary is. And I've seen other ones that it's completely taken into account. >> the fact that we don't have it. Does that have an impact on our ability to recruit and retain? >> certainly I would always advocate for more benefits for the men and women of the capitol police, and.
▶ 0:43:23>> currently also, uh, ice and perhaps, uh, border patrol as well, uh, is offering 50 or 60 or $70,000 in bonuses for new recruits. Is that accurate? >> I don't know the exact numbers, but I know it's significant. >> uh, do we have any such, uh, ability to provide, uh, such, uh, bonus money for recruits?
▶ 0:43:51>> while we know we, at this point, we do not have bonus money for recruits. However, we do have, uh, tuition loan repayment up to $80,000, which I think is a significant driver as I've talked to the new recruits as they've come in the. >> that's good. And to the extent that we don't have the bonus money, is that adversely affecting our ability to recruit and retain. >> uh, particularly, uh, retain, uh, is where I see the challenges is, uh, you know, there's nothing keeping, uh, folks here.
▶ 0:44:20And over the last, I would say, uh, last 3 to 4 months, I've seen a number of members, young members leave for these other organizations. >> your testimony and obviously the information we have and indicates that the threats to members, to the capital itself and to other personnel within the capital have substantially increased. >> that's correct.
▶ 0:44:46>> resulting in a need to increase our efforts, uh, and complement our personnel. Is that accurate? >> that's accurate. >> lastly, let me ask you a question with reference to the plaque. Uh, that, uh, has been the issue of a lot of controversy. God knows why.
▶ 0:45:07Uh, the men and women of the capitol police were confronted with overwhelming force and showed extraordinary courage in the face of the overwhelming force that confronted them. Uh, and since that time, we've had very substantial rationalization of that. That was a democratic effort, uh, that there was rioters and insurrectionists were performing, uh.
▶ 0:45:34Some 1500 of them who attacked police and frankly, led to the death of a number of law enforcement officers, uh, were pardoned. What impact did that have on the morale of your force? >> certainly. Uh, that was a challenging time for this organization.
▶ 0:45:59Um, I can tell you that, uh, we don't do this job for, uh, plaques or recognition. However, the men and women that do this work, uh, appreciate the recognition of the hard work that we do every day to keep every member safe. Um. Anytime you don't get recognition as the chief of police, it's important for me to recognize the hard work that they do every single day. >> and time is about to be up.
▶ 0:46:28I appreciate the observation about the plaque. What about the pardon? >> all of those things affected this organization, uh, and the morale of the men and women that do this work. >> thank you chief. Thank you for your service and thank the men and women of your department for their service and their courage. >> thank you. >> I now recognize Mr. moore for his five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you, chief sullivan. Appreciate you being here today.
▶ 0:46:59And, um, I think nick already said, but happy saint patrick's day. Um, Mr. hoyer just touched on something that a lot of us have been talking about. And that's the increased threats that are going on, uh, with members. I'm sure. I doubt there's a member on this dias that hasn't had some type of threat, uh, since they've been in office.
▶ 0:47:20Um, sometimes those have unfortunately, um, actual actually equaled action, uh, you know, steve scalise or gabby giffords when I was, uh, here working as a staff member, uh, we've seen it time and time again. And, uh, it's very unfortunate.
▶ 0:47:40I would want to point out our chairman here in the last appropriations bill, um, really led an effort to be able to help increase security for our members and did an excellent job on that. So cognizant that this is a public setting, uh, and you might not be able to give too many specifics, but what can you tell me about the standard operating procedure for when a member receives a death threat? Uh, I've had a few of these.
▶ 0:48:09I've had somebody show up at my house. Um, one individual, um, was presumably armed outside of my house when I wasn't there. My family was there. Um, I have folks showing up at my church now, um, which is interesting. Uh, how does your team work to determine credibility? At what stage do you begin working with other federal, state and local partners?
▶ 0:48:36Do you request a wellness check from local police to ensure the individual is still where they reside? Uh, we had one guy that was in maine or something like that and was trying to come down to west virginia. Uh, probably not advisable. Um, come down to my state. But, um, I'm just curious, what is, what is that look like? Uh, at what stage do you begin working with federal, state and local? Do you do wellness check?
▶ 0:49:05What's the process? >> certainly. Thank you for that question. One of the, uh, the key parts of our protective intelligence operation center that I spoke about in my opening comments was that single point of contact for intake, uh, when you have over 15,000 threats and, uh, concerning statements, uh, to get them all in one place to be able to triage them.
▶ 0:49:29Uh, so when we have those most serious threats, uh, we can bring resources to bear immediately, uh, we and get those to a threat agent who can then potentially coordinate, uh, if it's out of state with other agencies. Uh, we also, you know, as we look at threats, it's important for us to look at them holistically. Uh, each, each one is different. We, we have to look, if somebody has the means and motive to carry out, uh, said threat.
▶ 0:49:55Um, and then, uh, we, we have to be able to monitor that person, uh, going on. We, we will work, uh, with our, uh, state and federal officials. We talked about the mou that are out there being able to have those to be able to go out and do wellness checks, if that's what is recommended. Uh, that's not a standard operating procedure. We work with our department psychologists, uh, to take a picture of what this looks like. Uh, the idea is safety.
▶ 0:50:24Uh, safety sometimes involves prosecution. Uh, but we want to de-escalate and create a safe environment, uh, and working with all of the professionals at the us capitol police and other federal partners and state and locals, uh, that's what we, we strive to do in each of these situations. >> yeah. And what is the coordination look like with, say, the fbi, right?
▶ 0:50:48If you're somebody going to go out and prosecute these folks, is that who you refer some of these cases to, to go forward and do something about this? >> we will certainly work with the fbi depending on what the threat is. Uh, we will send threat agents out, uh, across the country, uh, to work with state and other federal officials to get prosecutions.
▶ 0:51:12We also have, uh, and we want to expand and we are planning to expand, uh, our salsa program. We have, uh, U.S. attorneys that are embedded in offices and we want to embed them throughout the country. And then they can work regionally to be able to help prosecute those cases. Uh, we found that to be very helpful for us to be able to, uh, get legal process, uh, out there and get it served to make sure that we can get that usually that electronic footprint or whatever.
▶ 0:51:41Uh, you know, the threat involves. And so we can get that information for successful prosecutions. >> well, thank you for your work on this. And it's something that just continues to concern me. Obviously, you all do a great job here at the capitol. Um, but you know, we don't have the same security apparatus and structure when folks are at home. Or more concerning, when people from say, utah or california are here and their families are back at home and folks show up.
▶ 0:52:08So, uh, any continued focus on that would be much appreciated. Thank you. >> thank you sir. >> thank you, Mr. moore. I now recognize miss malloy for her five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Too far away. Hi. Thanks for being here. Um, I want to go back to the recruitment and retention conversation you were having earlier. Um, I appreciate everything you and your officers do here, keeping us safe on an open campus.
▶ 0:52:35Um, obviously we interact with them every day, and it makes sense to me that having a well trained and satisfied workforce probably means we're safer and they're doing a better job. And, and a lot of times your officers are the first, uh, line of public service or public. Uh, yeah. Relations that we have at the capitol. That's what I'm trying to say.
▶ 0:53:02So a lot of people's first impression when they come here is how they interact with your officers. Um, and so my question is, as you work to build a, a stronger sworn workforce, um, what are the trends you're seeing in retention of officers? And to what extent are some of the tools that we've given you, like student loan repayment? Um, and even no tax on overtime helping in that retention. >> thank you for that.
▶ 0:53:25You know, hiring is one thing, uh, being able to retain the men and women that do this work every single day is, is something we need to focus on. And while we need to focus on, uh, those individuals at the beginning of their career, we also need to focus that that experience that's at the end of the career.
▶ 0:53:47Uh, the capitol police board just gave us another extension, uh, to be able to, to keep, uh, women and men here to the age 60, uh, which I think is incredibly important. We have 300 officers right now that, uh, could say, I'm done. I'm ready to walk away. That would be catastrophic for us. Uh, we continue to work to be able to do that, and we wouldn't be able to do it without some of these incentives. Uh, the student loan repayment, uh, the no tax on overtime.
▶ 0:54:16Uh, while I have not heard, because I think this will be the first cycle that everybody's getting ready to do here by april 15th, uh, I'm sure I will get feedback in that area as well as something that was positive. >> so it's been my impression that most law enforcement officers, most people who can get overtime, want more overtime. You said you're having a hard time because of the amount of overtime they're working, as are the officers concerned that they're working too much overtime?
▶ 0:54:46>> there's there's a significant amount of overtime that is required, uh, to, to get to, to complete the mission, uh, every single day. And, uh, you know, certainly there are, are members that want every bit of the overtime and then there's members that want to work life balance. Uh, you know, as we look at the younger generation, uh, having that work life balance is something that's very important for them.
▶ 0:55:11>> um, I was looking at some of the numbers in your report about where staffing levels were in 2022, and you've added a lot of officers since then. Since 2021, it looks like you've added about 360 officers roughly. Um, what's your target staffing level? When would the department consider itself fully staffed and no longer structurally reliant on overtime?
▶ 0:55:37>> so first off, you know, this, this line of work always lends itself to overtime. Uh, there is always going to be some amount of overtime, but understanding what the workload is, is something that we stood up a workforce office, staffing office that is helping us to do that. They are going to present a report later this year, uh, to give us what that looks like. But it's going to be important for us to replicate that report every single year.
▶ 0:56:01Uh, you know, roughly, uh, I can tell you that we're probably for, um, the 500 officers short today to complete the workload that is being asked of the capitol police, and we're supplementing that with overtime. >> thank you. Um, and what about the other than overtime, the challenges that you talked about in 2022 that were harming morale and have those been addressed other than overtime?
▶ 0:56:31>> you know, I think the morale and the challenges that was faced, uh, well before my time here at the capitol, uh, it's changed because half our workforce wasn't here in 2022. Uh, you know, I think you're seeing a sea change in just the older and younger officers.
▶ 0:56:49Uh, with that being said, it's something that we have to consistently work, uh, towards and make sure that we're thanking our officers, uh, for the incredible work they do every day. We frequently will, uh, criticize them when they don't perform to standard. Uh, but we have to, uh, that's a very small portion of it. We have to praise them when they, when they perform like they do 99.9% of the time. >> thank you. I'm out of time.
▶ 0:57:20But I will just quickly say please on my behalf, thank your officers for the work they do to keep us safe, and then I'll yield back.
▶ 0:58:39>> we are going to try to wait for a ranking member. Delauro but it sounds like she's not going to make it. So with no further questions. Uh, I do know that there was a request by Mr. espaillat for some closing statements. I'll give him the opportunity before I yield it back to myself. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you for your testimony. Chief sullivan and the officers and civilian employees of the capitol police that are here.
▶ 0:59:03Thank you for the work that you do every single day for us and for our constituents, for our our workers, our staff that is here every day for us. Uh, you do great work. And, and we value that.
▶ 0:59:18Um, uh, as I said earlier, four years ago on march 15th, congress passed a law that instructed us to install a plaque in honor of the officers that fought, uh, on january 6th to protect our lives. Uh, that should have been a simple act. Uh, it should have happened quickly.
▶ 0:59:43Instead, four years later, it took four years and the senate to do it. Uh, I raised this again and again and, and, uh, I think that honoring, uh, capitol police officers who defended this institution should have never been a controversial issue at all. It's a low hanging fruit. It's, uh, something simple.
▶ 1:00:06Uh, and, and I'm sorry to hear, chief, as, as you said today, that, that the lack of recognition and, and the pardons may have an impact, uh, in the morale of the men and women in the force. I think that's, uh, sad. It's really embarrassing that that is the case.
▶ 1:00:29Uh, when we walk by you every day, uh, we feel safe because of the work that you do. And on that particular day, it was critical to have you there. And you put your lives on the line. And it is embarrassing that we're treating this lightly and that a plaque is installed at 4:00 in the morning, in the dead of night, almost in a hidden way.
▶ 1:01:01Uh, it's not just inappropriate, it's, uh, embarrassing. But, uh, we will be walking today over there to honor you properly. Uh, you deserve. And, uh, we will be fighting here to ensure that you get the funding that you need, that you've requested to ensure that, uh, the men and women are safe, that our constituents are safe when they visit us, that our staff is safe, and that our colleagues are also safe.
▶ 1:01:27You said how the number of threats have dramatically increased. Some of our members here from the other side of the aisle have expressed their concerns as well. So we'll work with you and we'll work in in a bipartisan manner to ensure that we accomplish the best results. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. espaillat. I'd like to thank chief sullivan for for your time here today and obviously, uh, your entire department for what they do for our capital. Thank you all for your service.
▶ 1:01:57Members may submit any additional questions for the record, uh, this committee this subcommittee now stands adjourned.
▶ 1:13:30The committee will come to order. This is a fiscal year 2027 legislative branch subcommittee member day hearing. I'd like to thank ranking member espaillat and all the rest of our members for being here in spirit. Um, I'd also like to welcome our colleague and chairman of the budget committee, representative jodey arrington, thank you for joining us today.
▶ 1:13:51In addition to chairman arrington, who will be testifying in person, representative sylvia garcia and representative rashida tlaib have both submitted testimony for the record, and their testimony can be found in the committee repository. I'd also like to take note that these. This hearing serves as a vehicle for public witnesses to submit their testimony. For the record. 16 testimonies were submitted by the public and they can also be found online. I now recognize our ranking member for any opening remarks that he may would like to make.
▶ 1:14:21>> thank you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate hearing from our colleagues and the general public. Each year, the subcommittee should always consider public input before making up our minds on the fiscal year 2027 bill. I yield back. >> chairman harrington, your full testimony has been submitted for the record, and you are now recognized to provide a summary of your written testimony. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and Mr. espaillat.
▶ 1:14:48Fortunately for me, uh, you are thinking about ways to resource the legislative branch so that we can govern our great country. But fortunately for me, you have a perspective of being on the budget committee and a former budget committee member. You know that our oversight responsibilities primarily focus on the congressional budget office. The congressional budget office has a very difficult job.
▶ 1:15:16Uh, they, you know, fundamentally score policies that we develop and draft in the form of legislation. And that score will, uh, show up as either more revenue or greater expense. And over a budget window of ten years will affect the economic outlook. So it could affect growth rates. Uh, interest rates.
▶ 1:15:44So in order for us as lawmakers to make informed decisions, cbo has a huge responsibility to make sure that those scores are accurate, that the way they arrived at those scores are transparent so that we can have some give and take and good, healthy debate. Um, and that they're timely because these things have to we have to move expeditiously to solve some of the big problems facing our country.
▶ 1:16:12Both republicans and democrats have, um, shared their concerns over the years about, uh, scores that were either not accurate, not timely or transparent.
▶ 1:16:26And for 50 years, 50 years since the 1974 budget act and the budget committee and cbo were created, not once have we as budget committee members, both democrat and republican, had the, uh, the value and benefit of an independent audit of cbo, not even a gao audit.
▶ 1:16:52Every department and every agency and most programs in the federal government have endured some sort of audit because that gives us, as members, the information we need to decide if there are ways to improve these programs, these agencies, these, these, these departments. This is not a political exercise or a partizan exercise.
▶ 1:17:21I think there's been enough criticism on both sides about, again, accuracy, timeliness and transparency. I'm simply requesting that we put some money in to do an independent audit. I've even told my democrat colleagues, you pick the auditor. Honestly, that's how strongly I feel about. We need an independent assessment of the methodologies, predictive modeling, technology and overall operations. Mr. chairman, cbo, one of the recommendations may be that they need more resources.
▶ 1:17:51They may not have enough personnel, the right personnel, but they may also be working on, uh, older, outmoded, you know, predictive modeling and things that we could modernize to improve it. I just want to make sure that we as members and as the customer of cbo have the information we need to make the right decisions based on our views, our values, and the people we represent.
▶ 1:18:18And, and so I urge you to consider what I believe is not just bipartisan. I think it's a nonpartisan exercise that is just good government. And I think it would go a long way. And while I'm retiring at the end of this year, whether it is a democrat chairman or republican chairman, uh, they should have this information after 50 years without an audit so that we can govern our great country together much better and much more effectively.
▶ 1:18:47So with that, Mr. chairman, thank you for the time. Again, Mr. ranking member, I yield. >> thank you, Mr. arrington, or chairman arrington, for your testimony. Would any of my colleagues like to be recognized to ask a question? Well, if there are no further questions, I'd like to thank chairman arrington for, again, for joining us and for all those who submitted testimony for the record. And this committee now stands adjourned. >> thank you. Chairman.