▶ 0:29:38Subcommittee will now come to order without objection. The chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on the legal basis for action against Venezuelan drug traffickers. I now recognize the gentleman from Kansas who will lead us in the pledge, and then we will have a moment of silence for all of our troops, including the airmen that were killed in Iraq. Please rise.
▶ 0:30:11I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please remain standing for a moment of
▶ 0:30:51I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. I want to welcome everyone to the hearing on the subcommittee on oversight. Today, we're going to examine the legal authority and the national security that supported the United States successful operation to apprehend indicted narco-terrorist Nicolas Maduro.
▶ 0:31:15For decades, Nicolas Maduro and senior officials in his regime work with some of the world's most violent narcotics traffickers to flood our United States of America with dangerous drugs. Let's be clear about what this was. Maduro directed a narco-terrorism enterprise that trafficked thousands of tons of cocaine into the United States of America. This enriched his regime.
▶ 0:31:43It empowered criminal cartels, and it poisoned communities across our country. These are our children, our families, our brothers, our sisters, our aunts and uncles. And I say that during a lot of these hearings because I want people to feel it and realize it and understand this is not just some vague notion or concept or philosophy.
▶ 0:32:06These are real people whose lives are destroyed And it wasn't just corruption, and it wasn't just politics. It was organized crime at the highest level of government. In 2020, the Department of Justice unsealed an indictment charging Maduro with multiple federal crimes, including drug trafficking and For years, Maduro evaded justice.
▶ 0:32:32He hid behind a fortified regime protected by armed loyalists and foreign security But on January 3rd, 2026, that changed. The president authorized a targeted operation to capture Maduro and bring him to the United States of America to face true justice.
▶ 0:32:53US law enforcement, intelligence agencies, and military personnel spent months gathering intelligence and coordinating the operation code-named Absolute Resolve. During a precise, a very precise nighttime raid in Caracas, US forces extracted Maduro and his wife from a military compound and transported them to the United States of America.
▶ 0:33:20Days later, the couple was arraigned in federal court in New York on these serious charges. Now, you know, some critics have tried to find fault with this operation. They've tried to frame it as an operation, as something that it was not. So, let me once again be clear. This mission was not an invasion. This mission was not a war. This mission was not regime change.
▶ 0:33:45This mission always was a law enforcement operation to apprehend indicted fugitives who spent decades, decades orchestrating criminal activity that harmed our American people. The Constitution clearly grants the president broad authority to conduct such operations, Article 2 authority.
▶ 0:34:09The president serves as the And as the chief executive responsible for faithfully executing the laws of the United States. When American law enforcement could not safely breach a fortified compound controlled by an indicted narco-terrorist, the president had the authority to to military force to support the arrest operation. History supports this type of action.
▶ 0:34:37Presidents from both sides of the aisle have authorized US forces to operate, to confront criminal regimes, protect American interests, and bring dangerous criminals to justice. And that's exactly what happened. In the months leading to Maduro's capture, the United States also conducted decisive marine operations to disrupt drug smuggling networks operating near Venezuela.
▶ 0:35:03US forces carried out targeted strikes on vessels transporting narcotics through the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific. These operations dismantled cartel logistics networks and cut off funding streams that supported drug trafficking and At the same time, the United States seized sanctioned oil tankers and imposed a maritime blockade on vessels supporting Venezuela's shadow illegal,
▶ 0:35:34often illegal, oil trade. Those actions mattered. They weakened the financial lifelines that allowed Maduro's regime to operate with impunity. Together, these efforts restored deterrence in the region and helped protect the American homeland from transnational threats and criminals. And you know, what as an aside, the Venezuelan people are so subject to this reign of terror.
▶ 0:36:04So many of them, the vast majority of them, don't want to suffer through this, but they're forced to. You know, quite frankly, in Venezuela, they [clears throat] don't have the Second Amendment. And they for them to try to oppose the administration, they're literally there with rakes and shovels and baseball bats. And that just doesn't work.
▶ 0:36:25These poor people have been terrorized and destroyed Maduro's arrest weakened the influence of hostile actors who used his regime as a foothold in the Western Hemisphere. Who were they? Iranian operatives. Who were they? Hezbollah operatives. Chinese operatives. Transnational criminal organizations. Really bad evil folks.
▶ 0:36:50All of them exploited Maduro's government to expand their operations around the world. By dismantling this regime's leadership, the United States took a major step, a major step toward restoring stability and securing security in our hemisphere of the world. Critics have claimed the president's actions were unlawful, but both domestic and international law supports them in what they did.
▶ 0:37:19The United States acted to enforce US criminal law, to protect American citizens, to dismantle a narco-terrorist network responsible for enormous enormous unspeakable destructive harm. Ultimately, the operations in and around Venezuela sent a very very clear message. Those who traffic drugs, enable terrorism, and undermine democracy, and they cannot hide behind corrupt regimes forever.
▶ 0:37:48Not in Venezuela, and hope to God someday not anywhere. The United States will pursue justice wherever those criminals attempt to hide. And successful operation of Operation Resolve proves exactly that. We literally will save lives and families because of the work that was done there. It's really tangible. It's real. It makes a difference. I thank all the witnesses for being here today on both sides of this issue.
▶ 0:38:19We look forward to hearing from you, and once again, I thank you. I am now going to recognize the ranking member, Ms. Crockett, for an opening statement. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here, and it seems like we have a lot of students. Otherwise, y'all got real young faces in here. Um so, I want to thank each and every one of you for being here today. Um unfortunately, this is a conversation I never thought we should have. And so, let's get into it.
▶ 0:38:48The so-called president of peace has spent all his time in office dragging the United States into conflict all over the world. He's threatened our closest allies. He's started another unauthorized regime change war in the Middle East. And in this instance, he invaded a sovereign nation and kidnapped its Now, I don't want y'all to get it twisted and believe for any reason that I think Maduro is a saint. But, there are processes.
▶ 0:39:17A lot of Republicans in Congress and on this committee will argue that Trump's attack on Venezuela will be for the good of the Venezuelan people as the chairman has laid out. But, let me be clear. Donald Trump does not care about the Venezuelan people, and let me give you the receipts on how I know. He said that Venezuelans were invading the United States. He terminated the protected status of more than 350,000 Venezuelans. He deported Venezuelans to El Salvador's terrorist prison, even though many of them had no criminal record.
▶ 0:39:47So, this was never about helping the Venezuelan people. Donald Trump does not care about Venezuelans at all. To be clear, there is no legal basis for the United States government to invade a sovereign country and kidnap its leader. There is no legal basis for recklessly bombing people who pose no immediate threat to the United States, and the exact language that I believe the chairman used was that this was a precise operation.
▶ 0:40:11I don't know if his definition of precise includes the fact that there were at least 40 civilians killed in this operation in Venezuela and there was a total of 83 persons that were killed during this invasion. But Donald Trump's unlawful military action in Venezuela was never about stopping illicit drugs from entering the United States.
▶ 0:40:36According to the DEA's national drug threat assessment, Venezuela has little to no role in smuggling illicit fentanyl into the United States. In fact, DEA has never listed Venezuela as a fentanyl source or transit country. Coast Guard and military data do not show any fentanyl coming from maritime routes.
▶ 0:40:59It's interesting because the last thing that I remember hearing about is that the president decided not to consult with Congress before going into [clears throat] Venezuela, but to consult with corporate executives. I'll just put that out there.
▶ 0:41:17And Donald Trump, he also pardoned former Honduran President Juan Hernández, who was found guilty in a court of law in these United States of trafficking more than 400 tons of cocaine into the United States. Which is double the amount of cocaine that Trump's own State Department estimates was trafficked trafficked through the entire country of Venezuela.
▶ 0:41:41International drug traffickers love Donald Trump because they know that even if they are arrested, it's easy enough to get a pardon from him. The data shows that Donald Trump is one of the most pro-drug trafficking presidents in modern-day history.
▶ 0:41:58Since he took office, prosecutions for drug trafficking have fallen to the lowest levels in decades because the agents tasked with going after drug cartels have either been fired or forced to start raiding your local Home Depot or illegally breaking into the homes of American citizens, or monitoring community schools and churches so that the government can disappear entire It was never about protecting Americans.
▶ 0:42:25It was never about bringing democracy to It was never about stopping illicit drugs from entering the country. Like everything else this administration does, it was about corruption. The president told oil executives about the planned attack days before it happened. Trump then promised that all companies would be fully reimbursed by American taxpayers for any investments they make in Venezuela.
▶ 0:42:50And once the president illegally took control over Venezuela's oil reserves, the first sale went to the company of a man who donated $6 million to Trump's campaign. This is why the president attacked This was about greed. This was about controlling their oil so that the oil executives who donated to his campaign can make even more money. Not only was this illegal and corrupt, it's also extremely expensive for US taxpayers.
▶ 0:43:21The operations to capture Maduro cost taxpayers at least $3 billion, and it is dollars. And it is now costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars to maintain the oil tankers that the United States government has seized. And as a Texan, let me tell you, this is not helping those in my state that engage in oil work.
▶ 0:43:45This erratic and illegal foreign policy is now responsible for the death of 13 US service members and has made the economic crisis even worse. The final point that I'll make is that especially as we have young people here, I think there is a lot that we can learn from [clears throat] our youth.
▶ 0:44:05I remember as a little girl being told things like two wrongs don't make a It is very clear that Maduro is a wrong guy, and he may have even been illegally um in power. But, the idea that you would meet illegality with further illegality does not necessarily make it a right.
▶ 0:44:30So, as someone who is trained in the law, as someone who still respects the law, as someone who believes that law and order should matter in this country, I can't speak for others. It is a shame that we do not have enough people that understand the Constitution that are serving in the Congress and decide that they want to stand up and protect Americans as we have a lawless 34-count convicted felon that is
▶ 0:45:00continuing to engage in illegal actions that are harming both us here domestically, as well as Americans and others abroad. With that, I will yield. Thank you, Ms. Crockett. I will now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Raskin. Mr.
▶ 0:45:20Chairman, thank you very much, and thanks to the witnesses for joining us Uh since the summer, the administration has launched more than 40 strikes on alleged drug boats in international waters, mostly in the Caribbean, killing at least 157 people. This is without any declaration of war, and uh I am also moved, like Ms.
▶ 0:45:42Crockett, by all the young people here today, and I just want to uh remind you to read your Constitution because in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11, it gives Congress the power to declare war. The founders of our country were so adamant about this.
▶ 0:45:58James Madison wrote a letter to Thomas Jefferson specifically on the subject saying that the the kings were constantly plunging their countries into wars of conceit and vanity, imperial avarice, and corruption, and it had to be the representatives of the people who decide to go to war and not one guy.
▶ 0:46:19So, today, not Donald Trump, not JD Vance, not Tulsi Gabbard, it's got to be the representatives of the people, but um as with what's taking place in Iran there's no declaration of war. and as I survey the wreckage of this administration's drug enforcement I'm reminded of what uh Talleyrand said about Napoleon, who murdered one of his cousins.
▶ 0:46:48He said, "This is worse than a crime. It's a mistake." And so, what has taken place with these lethal strikes on drug boats is both a crime, murder plain and simple, but it's also a mistake. The administration has not provided any plausible legal justification under domestic or international law for Trump to use the military to kill anyone that he unilaterally deems to be a terrorist.
▶ 0:47:18These people were on US soil, they would be arrested based on probable cause if it existed. They'd be indicted. They'd be tried in court. And then they'd be convicted by a jury of their peers, or they'd be acquitted. Donald Trump knows something about the criminal justice process.
▶ 0:47:37He demanded every right in the arsenal of due process rights we have, and well, he should have when he was convicted on 36 different counts of felony fraud, but he had the right to counsel, he had the right to present evidence, he had the right to cross-examine. He had the right to be indicted, and he had right to a jury of his peers deciding the case. Even out at sea, our Coast Guard knows how to interdict a ship and take sailors into custody.
▶ 0:48:07In America, we arrest and we prosecute people commit crimes. We don't blow them out of the water with a Hellfire missile. These boat strikes are also though spectacular and costly mistakes. Uh obviously a made for Tik Tok distraction covering up the completely ineffectual drug policies of the administration.
▶ 0:48:32And then in a self-defeating way preventing us from focusing on what really works in fighting drugs. Under the Biden administration, the US saw the largest drop in opioid and fentanyl overdose overdose deaths in history from 80,000 in 2023 to 54,000 in 2024. Again, a huge number of people. but still moving things in the right direction. In West Virginia, opioid deaths declined by 46% in Wisconsin by 44%.
▶ 0:49:03Things were moving in the right direction. President Trump appears to be doing everything in his power to reverse this progress with his characteristic recklessness and bravado. Just a few months ago, he slashed staffing at the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration by 50%. He terminated 1.7 billion dollars in block grants for mental health services for state health departments. And he cut 350 million dollars in addiction and overdose prevention funding in 2025.
▶ 0:49:33It's already way underfunded, but he's been slashing away at the money that's actually there. His one big ugly bill cut tens of billions of dollars out of Medicaid, which provides health coverage to nearly half of adults in America who who an opioid use disorder. But we are not going to be able to treat addiction to opioids in the crisis we have in overdoses by blowing up boats in the middle of the ocean.
▶ 0:50:03We've got to treat the people who are suffering from these addictions. Mr. Chairman, it's not a video game. It's a national public health and medical emergency and we're not going to be able to bomb our way out of a fentanyl more than 5,000 FBI and DEA agents have been reassigned from combating drug cartels, actually fighting drug cartels, to immigration enforcement in order to meet Stephen Miller's immigration quotas.
▶ 0:50:33Last year, Attorney General Bondi terminated the Department of Justice's Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces, a long-standing strike force created by Ronald Reagan, which allowed DOJ to coordinate with agencies investigating cartels and international criminal networks.
▶ 0:50:51Over the last four decades, these task forces conducted more than 37,000 of overseas criminal drug and trafficking enterprises leading to the conviction of over 321,000 defendants and we're dismantling it. Eyewitness today, Thomas Padden, is the former acting director of the Organized Crime and Drug Enforcement Task Force. He's a non-partisan law enforcement professional. Mr.
▶ 0:51:18Padden can testify to what was the efficacy and of this task force when it comes to dismantling drug trafficking networks and he can explain just how dangerous the elimination of these tools will be and already has been for our country. The Trump administration claims it launched these deadly boat strikes because the Maduro regime was bringing cocaine into the United States and Trump is a tough and determined fighter of cocaine. But check this out.
▶ 0:51:47Just last year, President Trump pardoned Juan Orlando Hernández, the convicted mega cocaine trafficker and disgraced former president of the country of Honduras. Hernández turned Honduras into a full-blown narco-state and used his presidency to operate one of the largest and most violent drug trafficking conspiracies on Earth. When asked why Trump would pardon a narco-trafficker responsible for shipping 400 tons of cocaine.
▶ 0:52:17That's more than 800,000 lbs of cocaine. Someone will correct my math if I'm wrong on that. 800,000 lbs of cocaine into our country, President Trump responded that the decade-long criminal investigation into Hernández was, {quote} "Nothing more than a Biden Which is a remarkable claim given that it was Trump's own former defense attorney and former DOJ senior official and now hand-picked federal judge, Emil Bove, who built the case against
▶ 0:52:48Hernández and his family during Trump's first term. But, Hernández, the coke smuggler and dealer who was taped saying, "We're going to shove the drugs up the noses of the gringos." He had apparently other connections to the Trump family and the Trump White House and he was able to get his pardon. And if you think that was unusual, check out Trump's pardon of Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, a website that facilitated more than 1.5 million narcotics transactions.
▶ 0:53:19Prosecutors described Ulbricht as the kingpin of a worldwide digital drug trafficking enterprise for his role in operating the crypto-powered online black market which facilitated the sale not just of cocaine, but heroin and fentanyl and other deadly drugs. Well, this drug kingpin-friendly administration has cut healthcare funding for Americans who are suffering from opioid use disorder.
▶ 0:53:45They've pardoned narcotraffickers and they've dismantled the law enforcement apparatus that actually combats drug trafficking and international crime. Federal drug prosecutions dropped by 10% last year. This new shoot first, ask questions later approach to the war on drugs has not substantially stopped drugs from coming in the country in any way.
▶ 0:54:07And for decades, the Coast Guard stopped the same boats we're blowing up We've not stopped any fentanyl from coming in the United States, the drug primarily responsible for killing Americans, since Venezuela does not produce or export any substantial amount of fentanyl. They changed the subject and started talking about cocaine.
▶ 0:54:28These strikes fundamentally weaken our ability to bring cases against drug kingpins or the networks that actually sent these drugs, since we're blowing up the lower-level witnesses that we need in order to indict and prosecute higher-level operators. Well, um it's not just the pardons that make no sense. ICE's obsession with meeting Miller's deportation targets has led them to detain individuals who should be standing trial for their drug offenses.
▶ 0:54:55In a number of cases, state drug cases have been delayed or even dismissed altogether where defendants detained by ICE have failed to appear in court. One judge was forced to dismiss a case against a person working with the Sinaloa drug cartel because he was in ICE custody instead and was deported. If they've committed crimes here, they should be prosecuted here. And they should be sentenced and fined here. The billions of dollars these unlawful and ineffective executions cost could be used to save American lives.
▶ 0:55:25We should fully restore mental health service funding. We could support rural hospitals that are on the front line of this addiction crisis. We could be investigating real drug traffickers and prosecuting more drug cases, but Secretary of War Hegseth needs his clicks, and so we continue bumbling down this reckless, inexplicable, and counterproductive path. It's not just a crime, it's a mistake. I yield back to you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the ranking member.
▶ 0:55:55Without objection, all other opening statements will be included in the record. We will now introduce today's witnesses. Professor Josh Blackman. Mr. Blackman is a professor of law and the Centennial Chair of Constitutional Law at the South Texas College of Law, Houston, Texas. He researched His research focuses on Constitutional Law, the intersection of law and technology, and the United States Supreme Court. Mr.
▶ 0:56:25Franklin I pronounced that correctly? Good. Mr. Camargo is a political commentator. He fled Venezuela after the Maduro regime accused him of terrorism. They accused him of terrorism for advocating for political liberty and He granted political He was granted political asylum by the United States in I know we can't make the whole world run right, I know we can't change all the regimes, but Venezuela
▶ 0:56:55was a cruel and horrible place, and so many people were mistreated and hurt there. Um Ms. Gina Di Andrea. Ms. Di Andrea is the general counsel for the America First Policy Institute. She previously was a deputy general counsel and a litigation attorney for the AFPI. Mr. Thomas Padden. Mr. Thom- Mr.
▶ 0:57:19Padden previously served as the acting director of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force from June 2008 to March 2025. He served as the deputy director of the task force. We're going to begin by swearing you all in. So, would you please rise? And once you've risen, please raise your right hand.
▶ 0:57:43Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct according to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief? So help you Thank you. You may sit down. Let the record of reflect that the witnesses have answered in the Please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety, all of it.
▶ 0:58:11Accordingly, we ask that you summarize your testimony to 5 minutes. Professor Blackman, we're going to start with you. the floor is yours. Thank you. Chairman Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett, Ranking Member Raskin, thank you for inviting me to testify.
▶ 0:58:27My name is Josh Blackman, and I hold the Centennial Chair of Constitutional Law at the South Texas College of Law I'm grateful this hearing was titled at a broad level of generality, legal basis for action against Venezuelan drug This hearing is not about a series of isolated events such as boat strikes in the Caribbean or the arrest of Nicolas Maduro.
▶ 0:58:47Rather, over the course of 6 years, the first and second Trump administration took a series of escalating actions against Venezuelan drug traffickers culminating Operation Absolute Resolve on January 3rd, 2026. The legal basis for the boat strikes and Maduro's arrest must be understood in the context of all that came before. In my brief testimony, I want to offer a bird's-eye view of the actions taken.
▶ 0:59:11First, on March 26th of 2020, US Attorney for the Southern District of New York unsealed a criminal indictment against Maduro on charges of Second, on January 20th of 2025, President Trump designated Tren del Agua, TDA, as a foreign terrorist organization FTO. The third event occurred on March 15th of 2025. President Trump invoked the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 regarding TDA.
▶ 0:59:38Proclamation stated that Maduro maintains close ties to regime-sponsored narco-terrorists including TDA. The president uses a proclamation to remove alleged TDA members. However, Judge James Boasberg ordered the planes to turn around over international waters. And to this day, the federal court is still considering whether President Trump properly invoked the Alien Enemies Act. The statute has been on the books since John Adams was The fourth event occurred on March 24th of 2025.
▶ 1:00:05President Trump imposed emergency tariffs on Venezuelan oil. Executive order found that the Maduro regime continues to pose unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States. Fourth, on July 17th of 2025, Treasury Department imposed sanctions on top leaders of TDA. At the time, Secretary of State Marco Rubio announced that Maduro, currently indicted by our nation, has corrupted the Venezuelan institutions to assist the cartel's criminal narco-trafficking scheme into the United States.
▶ 1:00:37Fifth, according to press reports, by August of 2025, President Trump had directed the Pentagon to use military forces against TDA. Throughout August, there was a major build-up of naval forces in the Caribbean. Sixth, on September 2nd, 2025, President Trump announced that, quote, "US military forces conducted a kinetic strike against a TDA boat in international waters which was operating under the control of Nicolas Maduro." President Trump sent a letter to Congress that the strike was justified as, quote, "self-defense of the United
▶ 1:01:07To date, the military struck approximately 45 vessels. Seventh, in October, Pentagon officials and head of the Office of Legal Counsel briefed members of Congress, maybe some of you, about the legal basis for the boat strikes. The opinion was based on the premise that the president could determine the United States is in a formal armed conflict with narco-terrorist drug This opinion has not been made public and I haven't seen it. On November 6th of 2025, the Senate voted on a war powers resolution that would terminate hostilities against Venezuela. That resolution did not pass.
▶ 1:01:38Eighth, on December 10th of 2025, the United States seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. Ninth, on December 23rd of 2025, the Office of Legal Counsel signed a 22-page opinion concluding that the president may lawfully order military personnel to use his law enforcement in removing Maduro from Venezuela.
▶ 1:01:57That opinion has been released and we're happy to discuss it with you later 10th, on January I'm sorry, on January 3rd of 2026, the United States executed the law enforcement operation known as Operation Absolute Resolve. FBI agents protected by a massive but short-list lasting military operation arrested Maduro and his wife.
▶ 1:02:15They were returned and extradited to New York Legal issues here are complex and touch on matters of domestic and international Difficult decisions were based were made based on classified information that's not public, as well as legal opinions that have not been released. So, my analysis here is necessarily incomplete and speculative. I don't have all the facts and you probably have more facts than I do. Finally, I think it's useful to remember that these issues are not the sorts that courts will resolve. Rather, these matters fall to the political branches, the Congress and the president.
▶ 1:02:45I'm thankful to be here as Congress performs its important role under the Constitution providing oversight of the executive branch. Thank you for your Thank you, Professor. Mr. Camargo, you may begin. Chairman Van Drew, ranking member Crockett, ranking member Raskin, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for your invitation to share my experience and offer my thoughts on recent American action against Venezuelan criminals.
▶ 1:03:13One of those criminals once accused me of being a terrorist. But today, the real terrorist, Nicolas Maduro, is behind I was born in Venezuela and soon experienced the failures of socialism. When I spoke out, I was accused of terrorism under a so-called law against I could have been thrown in jail for as many as 20 years. I escaped, but my family wasn't so lucky. My cousin was tortured and spent more than 2 years in political prison.
▶ 1:03:44I was blessed to legally immigrate to the United States and I was granted asylum. Today, I work at PragerU, where I promote American values. One value that made the United States the greatest country on Earth is moral Ronald Reagan was quite clear when he called the Soviet Union an evil empire. And for that same reason, it is important to be clear today. Maduro was not simply a bad person or a wrong leader. He's an evil narco-terrorist who committed crimes against Americans.
▶ 1:04:15There are some here today who can testify to the legality of Operation Absolute Resolve. I want to testify to its necessity. Let me first explain why Maduro's capture serves American The Chávez and Maduro regimes turned Venezuela from a long-time ally of the United States into a drug cartel. 250 tons of cocaine move through Venezuela each year under the protection of the regime itself, otherwise known as Cartel de los Soles, Cartel of the Suns.
▶ 1:04:4430,000 Americans die from cocaine overdoses every single year. When a narco-regime floods our neighborhoods with dangerous drugs, American families pay the price. That is why the Department of Justice indicted Nicolas Maduro in 2020 for narco-terrorism. But drug trafficking was not Maduro's only crime.
▶ 1:05:06The regime established an official government conspiracy of sending violent criminals to the United States with a not so secret goal to subvert this Among them were members of the dangerous gang Tren de Aragua, who were responsible for armed robberies, sexual assaults, and the vicious murders of Laken Riley and of Joselyn Nungaray. Make no mistake. This was not an accident. It was part of a deliberate regime strategy.
▶ 1:05:36Just ask Hugo Carvajal, the head of Venezuela's military intelligence revealed the truth about drug trafficking. It was not about making money. It was Drugs were deliberately used as a weapon of mass destruction against the United States. Carvajal detailed the regime's collusion with Colombian guerrilla, Hezbollah terrorists, and Cuban intelligence. In other words, one of the architects of the policy revealed the truth.
▶ 1:06:07The ultimate goal was to destabilize these United States of America. That is reason enough to indict Nicolas Maduro, to capture him, and to bring him to justice. Anything less would have amounted to a dereliction of duty. American action in Venezuela, therefore, was not some rogue act of aggression. It was in defense of the sovereignty and security of the American people. Some suggest Venezuela also has a right to sovereignty, of self-determination. I agree.
▶ 1:06:36A majority of Venezuelans agree. But are those claiming to advocate for talking about sovereignty of the Venezuelan people or about sovereignty of the regime? Too many describe Maduro as a legitimate president. He wasn't. Most international observers concluded elections were stolen in 2013, in 2018, and in 2024. He was not kidnapped.
▶ 1:07:01Maduro was a fugitive indicted by the US Department of Justice who failed the long arm of the law. we protested in Venezuela, some of us would carry the American flag. That flag right there. Because it has a very powerful meaning, something innate in each of us. Today I have never seen Venezuelans so optimistic.
▶ 1:07:27If the country of my birth becomes free again, it would benefit both Venezuela and the United States. America would be stronger without a base just a short flight from Miami. Our economy would be stronger, more alongside an ally who no longer does business with adversaries like China. There is no doubt America would be safer, stronger, more prosperous with a free Venezuela.
▶ 1:07:54The capture of Nicolas Maduro was not only justified, it was necessary for the security of the American people. Thank you and I look forward for your questions. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Camargo. Uh next, Ms. D'Andrea. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Madam Ranking Member, Mr. Ranking Member and distinguished members of this committee. My name is Gina D'Andrea.
▶ 1:08:19I serve as general counsel of the America First Policy Institute and I'm here today to talk about the legal basis for the president's authority to take military action to protect the American people from external threats. As I'll explain, the president's authority in such situations rests on long-accepted constitutional grounds and has in fact been exercised by various presidents dating back to the founding First, a brief recap of what's going on in the Western Hemisphere. Evidence shows that the United States is confronting a narco-terrorist network that operates within Venezuela.
▶ 1:08:50Under Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela has served as a hub for extra-hemispheric actors who are hostile to the United States, enabling the trafficking of drugs and criminals into our homeland. Maduro was indicted by a federal grand jury in the Southern District of New York on charges of narcoterrorism and conspiracy to import cocaine into the United States. Neither the United States under both the Biden and Trump administrations nor the European Union has recognized him as a legitimate head of state.
▶ 1:09:15In fact, under the prevailing norms of customary international law, even the United Nations would be hard-pressed to recognize Maduro's legitimacy. He lost the 2024 election. He refused to cede power, and no principle of international recognition, whether grounded in effective control or democratic legitimacy, can sustain a claim to lawful governance by a leader who holds office in defiance of his own electorate.
▶ 1:09:38He's been named by the Department of State as the official leader of the Cartel de los Soles and has used his power to weaponize an illegitimate mafia to traffic narcotics into American communities on an industrial scale. He's also alleged to have worked against US interests with Iran, including potentially aiding Iranians in entering the United States under the illegal CHNV parole program that was in operation during the Biden The evidence is clear. This is not a foreign policy dispute.
▶ 1:10:03It's the protection of the American people and the enforcement of American criminal The authority of the president under Article 2 of the Constitution is sufficient to support action to address these threats from America's neighbors. As commander-in-chief, the president bears the primary responsibility, and truthfully, the obligation to protect the American people and ensure national This authority to address external threats before they reach the homeland has bipartisan recognition dating back to the founding fathers.
▶ 1:10:30The administration's recent executive order designating the cartel networks as foreign terror organizations recognizes that these are non-ordinary criminals and are instead paramilitary entities that pose a direct threat to the United This designation bolsters the president's authority to take action in defense of the American people. Turn to the strikes on the narcotrafficker vessels. Congress itself has dedicated designated the Department of War as the lead federal agency for detecting and monitoring drug trafficking into the United States.
▶ 1:11:01The Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act vests federal jurisdiction over drug trafficking aboard vessels on the high These strikes were carried out as a result of evidence show showing such drug trafficking was taking place. More to the point, the commander-in-chief has the constitutional authority to protect the Striking vessels that evidence shows serve as instrumentalities of narcoterrorism is a lawful exercise of that power. Turn next to the capture of Maduro. Operation Absolute Resolve was not an act of war or regime change.
▶ 1:11:29It was a targeted law enforcement operation that used a whole-of-government approach to execute a federal arrest warrant. And it was not the first time the United States has done this. In 1989, the United States deployed military forces to apprehend General Noriega, the then sitting dictator invited indicted on federal drug trafficking charges.
▶ 1:11:48Federal courts upheld jurisdiction and rejected his head-of-state immunity Perhaps most relevant is that Maduro, like Noriega, enjoys no sovereign immunity because the United States does not recognize him as a legitimate head of state. Both of these operations draw further support from the president's constitutional authority over foreign What's more, the War Powers Resolution of 1973 expressly preserves the president's independent Article II authority. The administration complied with its procedural requirements.
▶ 1:12:19The Office of Legal Counsel has maintained across administrations of both Democrats and Republicans that the president may act without prior congressional authorization when the operation serves important national interests and does not rise to the level of a constitutional war. Congress has even appropriated counternarcotics funds, designated the Department of War as the lead counterdrug agency, and federal grand jury returned the very indictment this operation enforced.
▶ 1:12:43Members of this committee, the framers designed a constitution to balance energy in the executive with accountability through Congress. These operations honor that design. The capture of Maduro that executed a federal warrant against a man no free nation recognizes as legitimate. Here are some brief facts. Maduro is a narco-terrorist who helped lead the so-called Cartel of the Suns. He advanced large-scale drug trafficking. He armed an illegitimate militia, solicited arms for a terrorist organization, and presided over unfree and unfair elections.
▶ 1:13:14This administration's actions have been targeted, limited, and constitutionally grounded in over two centuries of executive practice. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Ms. D'Andrea. Mr. Padden, you may begin. Chairman Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett, Ranking Member Raskin, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you here Last September, I retired after 47 years of combined military and federal civilian service when the administration
▶ 1:13:44eliminated the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces component of the Department of Justice. I served as a Deputy Director and Acting Director of OCDTF, as it's known, for the last 17 years of my career. I served under 10 Attorneys General and five Presidents and nine administrations. Over the past five decades, each administration, both Republican and Democrat, made improvements to our ability to focus and coordinate our efforts and resources against drug trafficking threats.
▶ 1:14:14The counter-drug mission is non-partisan, and administrations from both parties were dedicated to increasing the depth and breadth of our nation's capabilities. Unfortunately, that is not the case today, and Americans are less safe than we were 15 months ago. This administration eliminated organizations and capabilities integral to the counter-drug mission, and it reduced or diverted mission-focused staffing and resources in this critically important space.
▶ 1:14:42It replaced lawful investigations with military targeting of suspected drug traffickers, and pardoned at least one convicted drug trafficker who was also a corrupt foreign leader. I served for 12 years as a commissioned Marine Corps officer before joining the Department of Justice. At DOJ, I conducted task force investigations and prosecutions of Mexican and South American drug trafficking networks. After leading the Criminal Division's Narcotic and Dangerous Drug Section, I became the Deputy Director of OCDETF.
▶ 1:15:13Established in 1982, OCDETF was the largest and most successful anti-crime task force in the And it was the centerpiece of the Attorney General's strategy to reduce the supply of illicit and dangerous Our mission was to dismantle and disrupt transnational criminal networks through fullsome enterprise investigations. OCDETF received bipartisan support for over four decades.
▶ 1:15:37Before it was eliminated at the end of last year, OCDETF had national reach with thousands of prosecutor-led, case-specific, multi-agency task forces operating across the nation in every federal judicial district.
▶ 1:15:51In its 43-year history, OCDETF task forces dismantled or significantly disrupted over 21,000 criminal organizations, seized $13.4 billion in cash and property, and over 870,000 OCDETF prosecutions convicted over 321,000 defendants. It was OCDETF task forces that conducted the investigations and brought the drug trafficking indictments of two corrupt foreign politicians.
▶ 1:16:19Through our work, former President Juan Orlando Hernández of Honduras was convicted at trial, only to be later pardoned by President Trump. Through our work, former President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela was indicted on drug charges in New York.
▶ 1:16:35But despite these successes, the administration dismantled OCDETF last OCDETF's fusion center was a unique operational intelligence center that brought together case information and intelligence from a wide range of to help the task forces in the field better illuminate criminal networks so they could better coordinate their efforts to dismantle them.
▶ 1:16:56With more than 670 million records, the Fusion Center's holdings represented the nation's largest repository of federal law enforcement investigative reporting and financial data. With the elimination of OCDETF, the future of this capability uh capability is in jeopardy. I served in during the first in Trump in the White House during the first Trump administration.
▶ 1:17:18In that role, I was the senior advisor to the Drug Czar on drug interdiction matters, and I drafted congressionally mandated uh plans and and uh strategies, excuse me. The current administration's approach to maritime drug smuggling is ineffective. Sinking boats and killing the crews and sending the evidence to the bottom of the sea is not an effective attack on drug cartels.
▶ 1:17:43Interdictions that seize physical evidence and arrest mariners allow law enforcement to expand their investigations and identify additional Electronic devices can be searched and mariners can be interrogated, and that additional information can be exploited. A reason claimed for taking these actions was to stem the flow of fentanyl to the US. However, no evidence that maritime interdictions result in There's no evidence that they result in fentanyl seizures.
▶ 1:18:11Fentanyl arrives in the US predominantly across the US-Mexico border. South American maritime drug shipments are dominantly cocaine, and those boats departing from the north coast of Venezuela are primarily headed to markets in North Africa and Europe. Sinking those boats has no effect on the US drug supply. Military strikes are not an effective first solution to drug enforcement. Most importantly, preemptive killing mari- preemptively killing mariners, even those suspected smuggling drugs, is a violation of US and international law.
▶ 1:18:41Despite the rhetoric that the elimination of drug cartels is a national priority, administration actions indicate that the opposite is true. The administration can change direction and reestablish the capabilities, staffing, and structure necessary to be effective in dismantling these cartels. Until it does, Americans will be less Thank you, and I look forward to your Thank you, Mr. Barr. We'll now proceed with questions, and the 5-minute rule will be in effect.
▶ 1:19:11And I guess we are going to start with the gentleman from Georgia. That's you. You're from Georgia, right? I think I know who I am, Mr.
▶ 1:19:26No, you look Chairman. I I've always liked to bring levity in it. Hank, you look You look surprised. Well, I don't know if they warned you or not. I thought you were
▶ 1:19:34I thought you were going to go first. Your side gets to go.
▶ 1:19:37man. You never know when I'm going to go. I'm always ready, though. I know you are. Tell me, um, Mr. Camargo, upon what facts do you conclude that, uh, President Maduro was, uh, a drug Federal indictments, the testimonies
▶ 1:19:53is not proof. That's just an allegation. Sure, but What else What What other facts do you have? We have the reports from the DEA. We also have testimonies from people
▶ 1:20:03from What reports from the DEA? DEA. The DEA reported that the Cartel de los Soles, Cartel of the Suns, was operating in Venezuela, and
▶ 1:20:11So, how do you connect that to, uh, Nicolas Maduro? So, it's a totalitarian regime where he controls every single thing in the country.
▶ 1:20:19So, what you're doing is you're coming in here spouting off conclusions conclusions that you've heard, which fit a a nice little narrative that, uh, that you adhere You
▶ 1:20:31who Walid Pollo Carvajal is?
▶ 1:20:32I'm going I'm going to move on, Mr. Uh Uh Mr. Marco and uh Ms. De Andre, what organization is it? It is That's the America First Policy Institute. That's correct, sir. Isn't that the organization founded by the notorious racist uh Stephen Miller? Yes or no? No. That's not the one founded No, it's a Oh, so you're not connected to Stephen Miller? Uh we are not officially connected to Stephen Miller.
▶ 1:21:01glad to know that. I'm glad to know that. I I was hoping that you would not that that was not the same organization. Let me ask you uh Professor Blackman, um the United States used its awesome military power to go into um Venezuela and and extract uh President and uh then lodged him in uh a uh jail up in New York
▶ 1:21:32to await trial, correct? Mhm. Now, you do agree uh Professor Blackman that um the United States is bound to the treaties that it signs with other nations and which are ratified by uh Congress, correct? Yes. And uh the UN Charter is a treaty that was ratified by Congress in 1945. Is that correct? Yes.
▶ 1:22:00And the UN Charter provides that states must, quote, "refrain in their international relations from the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state." Mhm.
▶ 1:22:16Uh Professor Blackman, uh do you contend that the capture and kidnapping of uh Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro was not a violation of international law? Right. So, there's two points and thank you for the question. The first of the executive branch has long contended that a treaty into itself cannot violate the president's inherent constitutional powers.
▶ 1:22:44Okay. So, the president has the ability to contravene any treaties that have been ratified by the United States Congress. Is that your opinion? Well, I think what the executive branch said is that they will not find themselves bound
▶ 1:23:01about your opinion. I think it's actually the case that
▶ 1:23:05can unilaterally disavow and disobey treaties that have been ratified between this nation and other nations and have been ratified by Congress. Is that your
▶ 1:23:17Right. Under the supremacy clause of the Constitution, treaties are the supreme law of the land. Thus, the president has powers unto himself. I think the president always has certain broad powers unto himself.
▶ 1:23:27You're not answering my question. The The answer is yes. I think
▶ 1:23:29You think the president You think the executive has the power to annul treaties that this nation is bound to by ratification by Congress? I think where a treaty intrudes on the president's power, especially where there's no enforcing legislation binding the
▶ 1:23:45talking about creating the same kind of place where Venezuela is where Maduro did whatever he wanted to do. That's the kind of place that you escaped from, Mr. Camargo. And it's ironic that you would be here. Well, hold on.
▶ 1:24:00It'd be It's ironic that you would be here to protest what happened in that country when the same thing is is happening in this country and we have constitutional scholars like Professor Blackman who are aiding and abetting the slide towards authoritarianism. But, let me ask this last question of Mr. Payton. Mr.
▶ 1:24:21Payden, you know, Juan Orlando Hernández convicted of uh trafficking in 800,000 lb of cocaine into the United States. He was not uh by the military. He was turned over by the Honduran government uh to the US for trial and prosecution.
▶ 1:24:47And then less than a year into his 40 plus year sentence, he was uh by the same president that Ms. DeAndrea is here to uh to defend, I guess, even though he is not even adhering to his own America First policy. This panel, with your exception, uh Mr. Payden, is a sham. And this hearing is a sham. And with that, I yield back.
▶ 1:25:17I thank the gentleman from Georgia. With that, we will recognize the gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Payden, I'd like to pick that up. Did I understand your testimony correctly that the organization you worked for, which is now disbanded or defunded or or no longer happening, did you say in your opening testimony that you were responsible for obtaining the indictment of Mr. Maduro? Said that OCDTF task forces did the work that led to the indictment of Mr. Maduro.
▶ 1:25:46That was an OCDTF task force and the prosecutors, agents, analysts, and so forth. And that was in 2020 that was unsealed? Yes, sir. Was it obtained before that, do you know? The indictment was obtained before it was unsealed. I presume. Yeah, I presume it was. Yeah, do you know after the true bill was returned and the indictment was unsealed, was there an arrest warrant issued for Mr. Maduro? I personally don't know it, but I would assume it.
▶ 1:26:10Do you know what steps were taken by your organization or any of these task force to actually execute that arrest warrant during the 5 years between when it was unsealed and when you left the organization? I don't. Very well. Professor Blackman, let me ask you then a question on that because that's puzzled me. Uh if we had a valid arrest warrant that as far as I know was properly issued by a federal grand juror jury, a judge ordered federal agents to take Mr.
▶ 1:26:34Maduro into custody, is there an obligation on the part of the federal government to at least make some reasonable attempt to execute that Yes, and I think the leading precedent is actually Manuel Noriega. Uh back in 1989, the United States seized Noriega from Panama. I think he was holed up in a in a in a diplomatic building. And at the time, William Barr, the future attorney general, wrote an opinion saying that when you need to execute a valid warrant to arrest someone for an indictment, you can use military force.
▶ 1:27:01In other words, that the force there to you know, imagine we just send FBI agents in a boat to Caracas and okay, walk into the country and arrest Maduro. They'd be killed in 5 seconds. So, the purpose of this military force is to protect the FBI agents who are affecting the lawful arrest.
▶ 1:27:13Well, and isn't it right, Professor, that the president has a constitutional obligation to take care that the law be faithfully executed? Absolutely.
▶ 1:27:20And doesn't the law authorize the arrest warrant that directed agents to go take Mr. Maduro into custody? Absolutely. I mean, Maduro was indicted in March of 2020. There was no action taken over the past 6 years to to to get him until Trump started ramping up the force when his second administration began. You posited the absurdity of of federal civilian law enforcement officers showing up in a boat and saying we're here to get Mr. Maduro, but even before that, I mean, there are processes, there are procedures, there are extradition processes.
▶ 1:27:47I actually don't know if we had it during this time an extradition treaty in fact with Venezuela, but um is it reasonable to think that those processes, where we go to a foreign government and say, "Please hand us the individual indicted are going to operate when the individual indicted is the head of the foreign government?" No, and especially in this case where the United States disputes the election. I think everyone agrees he's not the legitimate president of Venezuela. So, you're asking someone who's not really the head of state to to surrender himself. It's it's not going to happen.
▶ 1:28:13So, the president made a judgment which you've you've described here though not attributing it in this case, that the use of military force was necessary in aid of execution of the lawful warrant that he had a duty to execute. Is that
▶ 1:28:25Yes. Yes. So, what's the alternative? If the if that is in fact correct and I don't think anybody here is second-guessing the president's judgment or his military advisors' judgments that it wasn't going to work to say pretty please and it wasn't going to work to send some FBI agents in a boat. Therefore, we needed to have a safety bubble uh provided by the United States military in order for the law enforcement agents to do what they've been lawfully ordered to do, which is take this defendant into custody. What's the alternative? The alternative is to do nothing and just let it
▶ 1:28:53And that's what we did for 5 years, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, that's right. You know, I Nobody's talking about it here and maybe it's not applicable cuz I think it only applies as a matter of law when there are no other legal authorities and and here I think there are plenty of legal authorities the president acted pursuant to but let's assume even that case that the interesting arguments on the other side are wrong. I mean, I remember learning of something called the doctrine of necessity that sometimes it is necessary to do what must be done in order to carry out the commands of the law. Is that correct? Yes.
▶ 1:29:22And if there was no other alternative here and the president of the United States was under a lawful order to go take this man into custody, what else was he supposed to do? He had to take some actions. I think he had the the authority to do what he did. And if he hadn't, wouldn't he be subject to criticism by folks that don't like him that he had failed his constitutional obligations? He probably would have been, yeah. Chairman, I yield back. I thank the gentleman from Kansas. With that, I will recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, the ranking member. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and um Ms.
▶ 1:29:52D'Andrea, um I'm moved by some of your political statements. One of the things you said at the end of last year was if any political figure or party can direct federal law enforcement against its critics, we no longer live under the rule of law. Do you remember when you wrote that? Yes, sir.
▶ 1:30:10So, do you reject Donald very public orders to the Department of Justice and the FBI to investigate and prosecute James Comey, Letitia James, Adam Schiff, a bunch of other colleagues including Jason Crow? I would say if there's reason and there's evidence to investigate those people, then he's absolutely right to call for it. If not, then he doesn't need to call for that.
▶ 1:30:36Wait, you said if any political figure can direct federal law enforcement against its critics, we no longer live under the rule of law. I think there's a difference between someone being critical and someone doing something that violates the rule of law. Okay, but all of it I mean, the reason why all the grand juries refused to
▶ 1:30:59enter indictments, the reason why a number of prosecutors uh resigned or were forced out of uh their positions were because of the obvious point that Donald Trump is attacking them because he perceives them to be political critics or adversaries of his. And so, it's would seem to me, just to apply your rule to the facts of the situation, Donald Trump is taking us outside of the rule of law.
▶ 1:31:25I mean, I don't mean to embarrass you in any way, but I liked your statement of principle and I'm just willing I'm I'm wondering whether you're willing to interpret it in a completely obvious and objective way. I would say that my interpretation is objective and I think that without having all the facts about each of these individuals and each of the allegations allegedly, you know, against them, I can't speak generally to the president's statement. I stick by my original statement.
▶ 1:31:52president, whether it was Maduro or Trump or Oscar Orlando Hernández, says, "Uh I want you to go and investigate and prosecute these 20 political enemies of mine, your position would basically be agnostic, well, let's wait and see what happens in the investigation. Is that I I doesn't that defeat the whole point of your statement? Respectfully, that's that's not right. That's not what I mean. That's not what I intended to say. Um what
▶ 1:32:17well, let me ask about another one. I wish we had all day because you you've said some interesting things which I agree with at the at the level of generality which you stated them. For example, you said um that Maduro had refused to cede power. I think it was in the 2024 election and you said that it's impossible to sustain a claim to lawful governance by a leader who holds office in defiance of his own electorate.
▶ 1:32:43Well, that really made me think about what happened in 2020 when Donald Trump claimed that he won the election, but the Congress found that he had not won the election. 60 federal and state courts rejected every claim of electoral fraud and corruption, but not only did he claim that he won it, he continues to claim that he won it. So, I hope you would repudiate that. Uh my Thank you for the question. I would say that he was he ceded power.
▶ 1:33:12He gave in. He the President Biden was sworn in and was the President of the United States. So, he did not illegally hold on to power in the manner that President Maduro, a legitimate dictator, did. Oh, I see. In other words, because the coup didn't work and the violent insurrection didn't succeed in overturning the election, then you think it was all right what he did. Respectfully, that's not what I said.
▶ 1:33:36I I said In other words, you seem to be saying that because his attempt to destroy Joe [snorts] Biden's Electoral College majority, which he won by more than 7 million votes, 306 to 232 in the Electoral College, because his efforts to overturn that on the floor of Congress and with a violent insurrection, then he complied with what you were stating as a basic rule of law principle.
▶ 1:34:03Respectfully, sir, I think there's a difference between asking whether fraud occurred and refusing to cede power once it's been made clear to you that it hasn't.
▶ 1:34:11Well, what's inciting a violent insurrection against your own I'm I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.
▶ 1:34:17Well, you you're saying there's one thing about asking a question, for example, going to federal 60 different federal and state courts to try to get a ruling, but once you've lost all of those, you think it's legitimate within the rule of law and democracy to incite a violent insurrection, as Donald Trump was impeached for? Sir, I appreciate the question. I don't have a clear answer for you on that. I think that every
▶ 1:34:40Well, we can discuss we can discuss it later and I I thank you for your statement of principles, which I think are often quite lucid, but I wish that you would apply them evenhandedly across the board. It might be tough from the the job that you're in right now. I I yield back to you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:34:59Would you entertain unanimous consent requests? Without objection. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the indictment in the United States of America versus Nicolas Maduro Moros, formerly sealed, the superseding indictment. Would ask to insert in the record a document titled Rubio, this is our hemisphere and President Trump will not allow our security to be threatened. I would ask to insert a news report titled How Cocaine and Corruption Led to the Indictment of Maduro.
▶ 1:35:24Would ask to insert another news report titled No, Trump's Order to Snatch Maduro Was Not Illegal Nor And I would ask to insert in the record another opinion piece titled Yes, Trump's Venezuela Moves Are Legal. Without objection. Thank you. the gentleman from Missouri, Dr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:35:47Since his first day returning to office, President Trump made it clear that stopping would be a top priority, issuing an an executive order designating drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, which elevated the fight against these networks to a national security issue. The commitment ended in Operation Absolute Resolve and the arrest of Nicolas Maduro.
▶ 1:36:13Under Maduro's regime, Venezuela had become a hub for mart- narco-terrorism, funneling over metric tons of cocaine annually through the cartel of the sons. This cartel, deeply intertwined with the Venezuelan government, has directly contributed to the deaths of over 30,000 Americans annually from cocaine overdoses.
▶ 1:36:37Maduro's regime also actively collaborated with foreign adversaries, including Iran and Hezbollah, in ways that threatened the stability and security of the United States. President Trump acted within his constitutional authority, which is supported by historical precedent. From the capture of Manuel Noriega to targeted strikes on drug smuggling vessels, the president has had both the responsibility and the authority to act against legitimate threats to American safety.
▶ 1:37:05The operation was not only compliant with domestic law, but also consistent with international norms as the legitimate Venezuelan government supported Maduro's capture. Um Mr. Blackman, can you um elaborate on the distinction between a law enforcement operation and an act of war, particularly in the context of Operation Absolute Resolve? Sure. And relevant precedent here comes from the Obama administration.
▶ 1:37:30If you recall in 2011 or so, there was a massive bombing campaign Libya that went for a very long time, and there was an effort to try to stop President Obama. And the Obama administration said, "This does not rise to the level of war. These are just There are no [clears throat] boots on the ground. Uh there's no risk of American service members being injured. And the Trump administration is basically relied on the Obama precedent. This is an operation that lasted a few There were no boots on the ground.
▶ 1:37:57I think there was some some harm to American service member, which is which is tragic, but this was not an obvious a war. And because there's no war, they said, for example, there was no obligation to comply with the War Powers Resolution. This is a limited hostility to to support a law enforcement operation to to enforce the excitement Mr. Sherman had asked about a few minutes ago. What would you say to critics who argue that the operation violated international law, particularly the UN's charter on prohibition of use of force? I appreciate my exchange with Mr.
▶ 1:38:27Johnson on this one a few minutes ago. It's true that almost 60 years ago the United States ratified the UN treaty. But the way I've always understood that is when the Congress ratifies a treaty, they don't quietly give away the president's powers. That's not something that's done
▶ 1:38:43Article 2 I Yeah, there are Article 2 powers. I mean Congress doesn't cede its sovereignty to foreign nations very often, at least not with express language. So, when the president interprets Article 2, Section 4 of the UN treaty, they say, "Well, would we assume Congress gave away this power? No. So, I retain this power." So, I don't think that the Article 2 of the UN treaty is a is an obstacle to the president using his constitutional authority. Thank you. Ms.
▶ 1:39:06DeAndrea, how did the designation of the Cartel of the Suns as a foreign terrorist organization expand the president's authority to act against Thank you, sir. It broadens his ability to take action. So, it it it basically says that the State Department makes this designation and he is now allowed to take whatever action is necessary to to combat these cartels.
▶ 1:39:33And can you explain how Maduro's regime fostered USA adversaries like Hezbollah and Iran and the threat that posed to American safety? Absolutely. Um so in addition to the the drug trafficking that we've been discussing here today, there's evidence that uh that they have been working very closely with the Iranian regime. You mentioned Hezbollah as well.
▶ 1:39:52Um a lot of this happened in the immigration context, where we had Iranians coming into Venezuela, being given Venezuelan passports, and then being admitted into the United States under the Biden CHNV parole program. Despicable. Yeah, well one of my colleagues uh harassed you about Trump inciting a coup or an insurrection.
▶ 1:40:14The President Trump President Trump gave a speech in which he said march peacefully and patriotically and support members of Congress and support members of Congress who are adjudicating the fairness of this election. So no matter how many times you say coup or how many times you say insurrection, it doesn't make it so. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank the gentleman from Missouri. I recognize the ranking member, Ms. Crockett.
▶ 1:40:46Okay, I don't know where to begin. Um so I'm going to start with Tupac. Um we're going to start with the fact that Tupac famously said, for those of you that didn't necessarily listen to rap, that we've got money for war, but we can't feed the poor. And the reason that I bring this up is for two reasons. Number one, in order to get Maduro, the estimated cost is $3 billion. I can guarantee you that a lot of Americans would say, yes, there's a valid warrant and things like that, but for the cost of $3 billion, let's put our money somewhere else.
▶ 1:41:16Number one. Number two, um Professor, you talked about the fact that if there wasn't the loss of life as it relates to our service members, or if this was just kind of quick boots on the ground for a second, then it wasn't war. just uh answer this question for me. Would you consider what is taking place currently in the Middle East a war because we continued to have our sons and daughters returned in casket to the United States? That's a yes or no.
▶ 1:41:46No, the analysis for Iran's different. Oh, okay. Okay, so you agree with me, then? Yes? Uh I didn't say that. Oh, okay. It's It's different analysis, so I'm just going to go with you agree with me because um this is clearly a war and it's unconstitutional. That is the bottom line. And frankly, as it relates to Venezuela, I think that we still will have some time to determine um exactly how bad it is.
▶ 1:42:12Because imagine for 2 seconds that you had fishermen and sailors that were coming from the United States and Venezuela all of a sudden started bombing our people saying, "Oh, no, no, no, you're bringing guns." Cuz let me be clear, America does their share fair share of nonsense in other countries. We tend to supply everybody with the guns. We flood this this world with guns everywhere, right? So, let's say they said, "You know what?
▶ 1:42:39We don't want all those guns going to the gangsters in our communities, so we're just going to start blowing people up." And And frankly, legally, that may work for them. You know why? We have a constitution and not everybody does. And so, it is offensive to sit here and engage in this conversation as someone who practice criminal law.
▶ 1:43:00And my God, everyone that I had, no matter what they were accused of, even if they were accused of capital murder, they were given an opportunity to actually show up in court and face their accusations, not be killed. So, the justification, like I don't understand why we are trying to make it partisan. It should not be partisan to just go and blow up these boats. Are you saying, Professor, that you believe that blowing up these boats because somebody believes it Let's You know what? Let me do it this way.
▶ 1:43:29Let's say they are drug traffickers. Do you believe that it is constitutional for the United States to blow up people that are accused of being drug traffickers? So, it's not going to be a yes or no question. If I could take a
▶ 1:43:42I'm going to just I'm going to stop you there cuz I only got so much time. And Professor, you know, I was really loving on you because you came from South Texas, which is down in Houston, not too far from University of Houston where I got my law degree, but it is very clear that it is unconstitutional for us in the United States. Let me give y'all another uh issue that I I I I don't understand if y'all see it the way that I do. There's this little thing called the Epstein files.
▶ 1:44:08There's a lot of people that have been found liable, uh charged, all kinds of stuff from from Prince Andrew and Peter Mandelson, from Norwegian officials, the former prime minister, um and the former ambassador, all these different people, right? Some would argue, especially since uh there was international trafficking that was taking place.
▶ 1:44:30Some would argue that our president, whose name is found over and over and over and over in these files, may have engaged in, say, child trafficking, sex trafficking. They They may come to that conclusion. with that being the understanding, if there are other countries that believe, because they believe in actually holding people accountable, okay? So, they say, "You know what?
▶ 1:44:56There were some girls from England or wherever." Because there were people from different countries. And they say, "You know what? We going to just come and we're going to drop in on America. We're going to bomb America. We're going to kill civilians in America because, you know what?
▶ 1:45:13We have a warrant for his arrest." Whether it's for the child sex trafficking in the Epstein files because America doesn't want to do their job, or whether we're talking about violating international law, whether we're talking about going and just randomly killing people, I can tell you that every single one of you that is sticking up for him right now would be screaming from the rooftops. The analysis has to be the same.
▶ 1:45:36I am so offended that I am still paying my dadgum student loans for law school and it seems like none of it matters nowadays because seemingly what we do is we twist the law to justify. The analysis is the same. If you would be outraged if they came and bombed our country to go after him to arrest him, if you're listening that I don't know. I don't know what people are doing this.
▶ 1:46:00But if they decided to do that because of the Epstein files or because of violating international law, you all would be against it. So we should be against it right now. Thank you. I I thank the gentle lady. That was a lot. Um so let me No, I'm I'm going to bring what I believe I'm going to bring it back then I do have some questions for you.
▶ 1:46:26Um first of all, history has provided us with lessons that this was legal action. We've learned that President Barack Obama, a Democrat, took similar action and it was found that it was appropriate. People might have disagreed with the action but that it was legal. There's no question that drug supplies are down now and drug use is down.
▶ 1:46:53But I would think again just trying to get the common sense, maybe it's a good thing to try to stop it when we can at the source. What we do typically is we let it come in. People get very sick. They die. We spend billions of dollars trying to make them whole again. A whole lot of times it doesn't work and it fails and we have a permanent destruction of a whole class of people in our country and it's wrong.
▶ 1:47:21If you can stop these drugs, you know what Americans would think? Geez, if you can stop them at the borders before they come in, that would be a good thing. It's also clear that he was indicted years ago, Nicolas Maduro, and we did nothing for 5 years. Why was that? Nobody can give me a good answer for that. It is also clear, and I know the gentleman from Georgia brought up, and he asked you, Mr.
▶ 1:47:47Carmago, you know, um you know, how did we think that there was any connection between this illegal president in Venezuela who usurped authority, who got power by violence, and there was no connection with him and drug cartels? Yeah, there was. Everybody agrees with that. Most Democrats agree with that. Republicans agree with it. So, frankly, and I love the gentleman from Georgia, I do. He's a nice man.
▶ 1:48:13But I I don't know where that came from, because that connection is absolutely there. I I I guess the last thing that I would say is that I I think we've got to get down to is it legal? Yes, it is. Is it going to help us stop people from getting sick in our country? It is. Come on, let's talk real language. And I I say this all the time. I always like to kid around. I'm a dentist. I'm not an attorney, okay?
▶ 1:48:43And it gets down to basic stuff, man. Take care of our people. We're killing them. These drugs are killing them. The amount of cocaine that was pushed into this country It's our babies. We got to stop it any way we can that's legal, and it was legal. So, I got some quick questions. Mr. Carmago, in your testimony you stated very clearly that Nicolas Maduro was not simply a bad president, by the way, an illegal president, a a bastard, to be honest with you, an awful awful man. He's an evil narco-terrorist.
▶ 1:49:15I got an a yes or no question for you. Was the Venezuelan government under Maduro functioning as as a criminal enterprise tied to drug trafficking networks? Yes or no? Yes, 100%. Mr. Camargo, you also testified that 200 to 250 metric tons of cocaine moved through Venezuela every single year under the protection of this of these regime officials. Yes or no? Yes.
▶ 1:49:41And yes or no, does that make the Maduro regime one of the largest state-enabled drug trafficking operations in the entire Western Hemisphere? Yes or no?
▶ 1:49:50Yes. Okay. Mr. Camargo, you also pointed out that Caracas is about 1,400 mi away from Miami. And so to this question, yes or no, if a narco-terrorist regime operates that close to the United States of America, does it pose a direct national security threat to the United States of America and to the American people? Professor Josh Blackman, I'm sorry.
▶ 1:50:19I didn't want to get get too familiar I'm from South Al, we're close. So you're good. Okay, there we go. That's a good thing. Let me ask a simple question. Is the Western Hemisphere safer when a narco-terrorist regime tied to cartels and hostile foreign powers is removed from power? Are we safer? I think so. Yeah, I I definitely think so. Mr.
▶ 1:50:40Patton, got the harder questions for Yes or no, was Nicolas Maduro indicted by a federal grand jury in the United States of America for narco-terrorism before this operation occurred? He was indicted on other drug charges and weapons charges before the operation. There's been a superseding indictment, I believe, since then. Okay, but he was indicted then as well,
▶ 1:51:02Correct. And by the way, that's the difference in the ranking member. I respect her, but she brought up the fact that um you know, it'd be just like coming into our country. We keep forgetting he was indicted in our country. He was indicted by our country. The sealed indictment was opened up. So, Mr. Patton, you argue that these actions made America less safe, what we've done. I'm going to ask you a hard question. I'm going to ask you to answer it.
▶ 1:51:28If the United States had done nothing, as we were doing nothing, and allowed an indicted narco-terrorist running a drug network just 1,400 miles from Florida moving the continent drugs in that he was, if he remained in power, would that have made America safer if he remained in power? Yes or no?
▶ 1:51:48It's too soon to tell whether it would or not, sir.
▶ 1:51:51Would that make Just allowing him in power, you're arguing with you're saying that that could make it safer in I'm not sure we'd be less safer than we currently are if he were still in power. respectfully, that's where I totally and fundamentally disagree with you. I thank you for your answers, though. My time is up as well. I will recognize the I'm so you Okay, let me just before I do that, let me see who's up.
▶ 1:52:21Yes, okay. You have a Yes. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have three articles to submit for the record. Um Libyan bombing unconstitutional, Republicans warn Obama. Uh this is from March 22nd, 2011. Um Trump pushes Justice Department to prosecute his political opponents, that's September 21, 2025. And the ex-president whom Trump pardoned flooded America with cocaine.
▶ 1:52:50That's about Juan Orlando Hernández from Honduras. Without objection, I recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you holding today's hearing. We certainly appreciate it, and thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to to come out here.
▶ 1:53:07Um I for one I'm certainly thankful that we have a president who is willing and capable of identifying a clear, direct, and narrow strategic interest for the United States and pursuing it aggressively, appropriately, and at times when necessary with overwhelming As we know, this was an illegitimate dictatorship in the Western Hemisphere in our own backyard that was destabilizing our region, operating as
▶ 1:53:38a hub for some of the most violent and ruthless and dangerous criminal cartels in the entire world, as well as for other other of America's foreign adversaries that were creating migratory pressure that America has a clear and obvious strategic interest in tamping down. So, I'm glad that we have a president who is looking out for us. Thank you again to the to the witnesses for being here.
▶ 1:54:05The Government Accountability Office has recognized Venezuela as a major drug transit country and asserts Venezuela was responsible for about 10 to 13% of global cocaine movement.
▶ 1:54:19Further, Venezuela hosts multiple transnational gangs including the foreign terrorist organization designated Tren de Aragua and the specially designated global terrorist organization Cartel de los The drug cartels trafficking in fentanyl and other narcotics kill tens of thousands of Americans annually and is therefore and rightfully considered by the White House as an armed conflict. Mr. Blackman, I I want to start with you.
▶ 1:54:47How how many drug smuggling vessels would you estimate passed freely over water to the United States before President Trump assumed office? Uh I have no idea. I'm guessing it's a very large number. Very large number. Would thousands as far as far as we know. Um as far as we know. How did How did Could you just walk me through how the Maduro regime uh would aid drug trafficking to the United States?
▶ 1:55:11Well, I think the allegation is that the Maduro regime basically operated as almost like a coordinator of all these various entities including Tren de Aragua. And this is basically the predicate of the President's decision to impose the boat strikes, and which I think is closely linked to the decision to arrest Maduro. Yep.
▶ 1:55:27And it as we know President Biden's open border policies allowed millions of into [clears throat] our country that were totally unvetted from all over the to come into our United States and petition for dubious claims for asylum, claims that were dubious at best. Recognizing that kind of opportunity, I think Maduro opened his prisons and expelled thousands of criminals from knowing many of them would make their way to the United States. Excuse me.
▶ 1:55:54Set up criminal enterprises here rather than there. Biden's Venezuela temporary protected status designation granted quasi-legal status for all Venezuelans including criminals who make it to the United States. Between March and September 2021 alone, US Border Patrol encountered nearly 47,000 Venezuelans rising to more than 187,000 in fiscal year 2022.
▶ 1:56:20About a million Venezuelans are estimated to be in the United States as of 2026 this year. To put that into perspective, there were about 28 million people living in Venezuela in 2024. That means that a significant portion of their population lives in the United States. Uh Ms. DeAndrea, thank thank you again for for being here. Were there any foreign state sponsors of terrorism active in I believe the evidence shows that there was, yes. Yep.
▶ 1:56:48And And what uh geopolitical adversaries were were they associated with? Uh there were Iranians and Hezbollah, I believe. Right. That's right. Do you think that these terrorist groups use Venezuelan trafficker contacts to smuggle themselves or other terrorists into the United States? Absolutely. Absolutely. Um and that made the United States less safe, you would say, wouldn't it? Absolutely. I I agree and I think the American people agree as well.
▶ 1:57:12And I think most of them are are uh pretty satisfied that we have a president again who is pursuing our interests in our region and doing so aggressively and legally. Um so with that said, Mr. Chairman, I've got a variety of uh unanimous consent requests if that's
▶ 1:57:28Without objection. First of all, an article from the National Review by John Yoo, The Trump Administration's Actions in Venezuela Are Constitutional. An article from
▶ 1:57:41from AEI, also by John Yoo, The Long History of Presidential Discretion. Without objection. Article from CBS uh Maria Corina Machado Says Maduro Capture Will Go Down in History as the Day Justice Defeated Tyranny. Without objection. Article from Fox News, uh Rubio Vows to Eliminate Hezbollah Iran Operations from Venezuela After Maduro Capture. Without objection.
▶ 1:58:07Document from the White House Designating Cartels and Other Organizations as Foreign Terrorist Organizations and Specifically Designated Global Terrorists. Without Another document from the White House, Designation of International Cartels, a Fact Sheet. Without objection. Document from the Department of the Treasury, Treasury Sanctions Venezuelan Cartel Headed by Maduro.
▶ 1:58:31Without Another article, uh quote Admiral Saw Alleged Drug Boat Strike Survivors as Legitimate Targets, Defense Official
▶ 1:58:40Without objection. That's it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:58:42Thank you, gentlemen. Oh, sorry. I've got one more, too, if that's all
▶ 1:58:46Without objection. Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman. Uh this is from the New York Times, January 7th, 2026. Headline, Maduro is gone, but repression in Venezuela has intensified. The sprawling political security and intelligence apparatus that propped up Maduro's strongman rule is still in place, and day-to-day life is getting worse. Without objection.
▶ 1:59:06I've got a UC. Without objection.
▶ 1:59:08Um this one is from March 2nd, 2026. Trump's war on Iran violates international law and US Constitution, war crimes prosecutor Reed Brody. Without objection. I have another one. Um it's from January 2026. It says Maduro is gone, but his regime is Without objection. I have another one. Uh this one is from March 16th, 2026.
▶ 1:59:35Um number of US troops wounded in Iran war surpasses 200 across seven
▶ 1:59:41Without objection. And uh one more. Uh this one is from 12 18 of 25. It says appropriators backed a crime-fighting unit, DOJ closed it Without objection. So that concludes today's hearing. I want to thank our witnesses, all of them, for appearing before the subcommittee today. We do appreciate your time.
▶ 2:00:05Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. And without objection, this hearing is adjourned. Good deal.