▶ 0:14:01Committee will come to order. Today we continue our posture hearings with Indopaccom [clears throat] and US Forces Korea. As we meet uharies are deepening their China, Russia, and Iran. North Korea are working together to challenge the United States. Recent reports of China and Russia's support for Iran during Operation Epic Fury are just the latest example of this cooperation.
▶ 0:14:30In this threat environment, President Trump was right to commit a historic $1.5 trillion defense budget. This investment is essential to rebuild our military and ensure peace through strength. I look forward to working with President Trump and Secretary Hegsth to get it enacted. In particular, this investment is critical to addressing our most pressing challenge that is deterring China in the Indo-acific.
▶ 0:14:57Under Xiinping, uh China is pursuing a historic military buildup. It now fills the world's leading hypersonic missile arsenal. The PLA is on track to exceed 1,000 nuclear warheads by 2030.
▶ 0:15:12China is the world's pre-minent ship building nation and its growing arsenal of conventional long range strike cyber and space capabilities increasingly puts not only the US interest in the region at risk but also the US homeland and China is not just building capability it's demonstrating intent in a December exercise the PLA encircled Taiwan and rehearsed operations to isolate and seize the island To ensure the department
▶ 0:15:43can deter China through strength, we must improve integrated air and missile defense systems, including Guam defense system, scale production uh of innovation, lowcost munitions and attritable unmanned systems, replenish our munition stockpiles, especially long range fires, and rebuild and modernize US ship building. Moreover, we need a strong network of alliances and partnerships.
▶ 0:16:10Fortunately, Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines and Australia are increasing their defense spending and providing critical access and basings that enable our forces to operate throughout the region. Taiwan, too, has made strides in strengthening its self-defense capabilities and is already spending about 3% of its GDP on defense.
▶ 0:16:32And like President Trump, the Taiwanese president is also proposing a special budget to bring their defense spending closer to 5% of GDP. I encourage their legislative body to pass that as soon as possible. The stakes are clear, not only for Taiwan, but also for the United States. A crossstrait invasion would disrupt the global economy and enable China to dominate the Pacific and its key seal uh to uh America's detriment.
▶ 0:17:03The time is now to strengthen Taiwan's defenses. I urge the department to move quickly to execute congressionally appropriated funds for the Taiwan Security Cooperative Initiative. Uh the recently announced 11 billion US arm sales uh is a positive step, but we must make use of every available authority to arm Taiwan. that is consistent with the 2026 National Defense Strategies call to build a strong denial defense along the first island chain.
▶ 0:17:32While China is our pacing challenge, North Korea remains a persistent threat and cannot be ignored. North Korea forces are gaining realworld combat experience fighting for Vladimir Putin against Ukraine. In return, Putin is giving Kim advanced technologies to greatly enhance his military capabilities. North Korea's advancing cyber, nuclear, and missile arsenals threaten both South Korea and the US homeland.
▶ 0:18:01Therefore, I'm encouraged that South Korea is demonstrating a clear commitment to taking on significant significantly greater responsibility for its own defense. But that progress must not be undermined by a premature reduction of US forces from the peninsula or a pre premature transition of wartime operational control. I want to thank our witnesses for being here and their service to our nation.
▶ 0:18:26I look forward to hearing how we can work together to ensure our war fighters have what they need to maintain stability and deterrence in the Indoacific. With that, I yield to my friend, the ranking member, for any opening statement he may
▶ 0:18:38Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh clearly the Indo-Pacific and the Korean Peninsula are crucial uh to our national security and to peace and stability across the globe. I thank our witnesses for being here and I thank them for their leadership and helping us meet that challenge. And I substantially agree with the chairman's comments. One key to this is us maintaining a significant deterrent capability in the region. A capability that enables us to deter China from making any aggressive moves in the region and also to deter North Korea.
▶ 0:19:07Certainly a key part of that is the strength of our defenses, but I think an even bigger part of that is what the chairman mentioned at the end of his remarks and that is the system of partners and alliances in the region uh that have been so crucial and that have had been moving in a positive direction um as they saw the threat from China and wanted our help. We need to maintain those relationships. We need to let those folks know that we are there and they can depend on us and that the United States is in fact a partner that they they can rely on.
▶ 0:19:36So I'd be very curious to hear from our witnesses how those relationships are going moving forward. Um certainly a key part of this is also what the chairman referenced. We have to make uh Taiwan as strong as possible to deter China from thinking that they can reunify by force. That that is be a cornerstone of our policy. Um, yes, it is a one China policy, but it will never be reunified by force.
▶ 0:20:01The absolute key to that is making sure that Taiwan is strong enough to deter China from thinking that they can successfully carry out that operation. Um, certainly uh the same is true when it comes to deterring North Korea. Um, they threaten South Korea, but they threaten the region. And as the chairman has alluded to uh given their involvement in Ukraine, they also are working more and more closely with China, with Russia, with Iran as part of that u group that is threatening our interests in a bunch of different places.
▶ 0:20:30So we need to deter them. Um I do believe that the bilateral relationship between China and the US is the most important bilateral relationship in the world and will be for decades. So in addition to deterring them, I hope we find ways to have dialogue with them. I am deeply concerned that there is a lack of miltomill conversations. I don't blame us for that. You know, China has been very reluctant to have those conversations.
▶ 0:20:57But again, as the chairman mentioned, their massive military buildup, particularly in the nuclear area, demands that we be in a regular dialogue and conversation so that we better understand each other and can find a path forward to maintain peaceful relations. So, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts about how we can better communicate with China. I led a Kodell to China, the first one that had gone in like five or six years. I don't believe anyone's been back since. I think members of Congress need to get to China.
▶ 0:21:26I think uh the State Department certainly needs to get there and we look forward to the president's um uh conference coming up in I think it's two three weeks from now in China. I think that'll be a crucial part of resetting the relationship. The other big problem in all this of course is that the war in Iran has undermined every single one of those goals that we just laid out. Obviously we are expending a lot of munitions and a lot of capability there. Um and the pie is the pie. um if you're expending it somewhere that undermines your ability to have it elsewhere.
▶ 0:21:57So do want to hear and this is probably more for the classified session uh but from uh both Admiral Papara and General Brunson how is this impacting our ability to maintain our deterrent capability in the region. And then an even bigger problem to my mind is how this has impacted our partnerships and alliances. We stumbled into this war have no idea how to get out of it. Didn't have any idea how to get out of it when it started.
▶ 0:22:21we have even less of an idea today that the chaotic, you know, plans that the president has been laying out in the last week, it's all over. They've agreed to everything. They've agreed to nothing. We're not talking. I will not extend the ceasefire. I will extend the ceasefire. I'm extending it forever. The message that sends to the world is that we are not a reliable partner. We don't know what we're doing. And then the worst part of it is the absolute contempt that the president has shown for the entire world, but certainly for Asia.
▶ 0:22:51He he points out, look, it's not our problem. It's their problem. They're more dependent upon golf than we are. And that's true. It is true. The rest of the world is getting hit economically a lot harder by our stupid war of choice in the Middle East than we are. That's not something to brag about if you want to try to build partnerships and alliances. at a minimum, it's something to say, "Hey, sorry. How can we help?" Right? Is there something we can do to mitigate these damages?
▶ 0:23:18So, the the war in the Middle East is causing enormous problems, not just there, but in the Indoacific as well. And it's something we're going to have to work really hard to try and fix as we go forward. Uh, with that, I look forward to the uh testimony from the witnesses and the questions. And I thank the chairman for holding the hearing, and I yield back.
▶ 0:23:36I thank the [clears throat] ranking member. Uh just as a situational awareness, uh we're expecting votes at approximately 11:20. When votes are called, we will briefly recess before reconvening for open session. Uh we'll come back, [clears throat] excuse me, take some more questions. Then about 12:50, we will recess or adjourn the um open session and 1:00 convene in the classified session.
▶ 0:24:05Uh but we'll get as many members and their questions in before that time as as possible. Uh now I'd like to introduce our witnesses. Uh we have the honorable John No, who is the assistant secretary of defense for the Indopacific security affairs. We have Admiral Paparo back with us who is commander of US Indoacific Command and General Brunson who is commander of United Nations Command, Combined Forces Command and the United States Forces Korea. Uh with that, Mr. know we'll start with you for any opening statements you may have.
▶ 0:24:36Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss how the Department of War is preserving a favorable balance of power in the Indoacific and implementing President Trump's common sense peace through strength agenda in this vital region.
▶ 0:24:58It is a distinct honor to speak with you alongside Admiral Paparo and General Let me begin by reaffirming our clear mission as laid out in the 2026 National Defense Strategy. The Department of War will deter China through strength, not confrontation, and set the conditions for a favorable balance of power in the Indoacific in which no country, including China, can become a regional hegeimon.
▶ 0:25:29This is not for the purpose of dominating or humiliating China. Rather, it is to defend our vital national interests in the Indoacific and ensure that neither China nor anyone else can dominate us or our allies.
▶ 0:25:44We are cleareyed about China's unprecedented military buildup and it is our responsibility at the Department of War to ensure that the president is always negotiating from a position of unquestionable milit military strength to sustain peace in the Indoacific. This requires, as the NDS clearly states, erecting a strong denial defense in the Indoacific with a focus on the first island chain.
▶ 0:26:13We will accelerate efforts to strengthen US force posture across the theater to increase the joint forces lethality and optionality to deny aggression and if necessary prevail. This means ensuring we have combat credible military forces postured forward, resilient basing and logistics networks and advanced capabilities where we need them.
▶ 0:26:37The US military cannot and should not alone sustain a favorable balance of power which is fundamentally in our regional allies and partners' interests. The department has called upon our allies and partners to expand their contributions to our collective defense and to share the burden of restoring and sustaining deterrence in the Indoacific. We will work closely with them to bolster their readiness, enhance our interoperability and revitalize our collective industrial bases.
▶ 0:27:08And we will count on the most wealthy and capable among them to meet the global standard of 3.5% uh defense spending and to take greater responsibility for their The secretary has made clear that America first does not mean America only or America alone. It means an America supported by and standing with a network of highly capable armed forces ready to defend our shared interests.
▶ 0:27:36This is what the department and the team seated here before you today is delivering with the utmost urgency and focus. Thank you for your support and leadership and for the opportunity to testify before you today. I greatly appreciate your continued commitment to and support for the men and women of the Department of War. Uh thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:27:59Thank you Mr. No. Admiral Paparo, you're
▶ 0:28:02Good morning chairman, rank and member and members of the committee. Thanks very much for the opportunity to speak with you today. I'll just call attention very briefly to Sergeant Major Cook and the other sergeants majors uh aligned behind me. Uh his charge is the morale of the fighting force.
▶ 0:28:18That combination of physical, mental, and spiritual readiness that is at the heart of the joint force and the enlisted and the non-commissioned officers are the heart, body, and soul of the joint force. I'd like to also acknowledge all of the tireless professionals arrayed behind us uh that helped make today possible for us all.
▶ 0:28:40The Indo-Pacific is indeed the defining strategic theater in the 21st century and it's where the four lines of effort of the national defense strategy converge. Safeguarding the US homeland, deterring China, deepening burden sharing with our allies and our partners and supercharging the defense industrial base. Indopaccom strategy is clear.
▶ 0:29:02deter China from achieving its objectives through military aggression as we watch for the strategic cooperation uh among uh among the axis powers not Axis powers among the the powers uh China, Russia, North Korea, Iran and terror groups. Deterrence is our highest duty. We deter with dynamic combat power uh conducting operations every day across all domains.
▶ 0:29:30Our allies and partners increase our combat capability and capacity. They help expand the maneuver space. They extend our operational reach and they strengthen deterrence. Just yesterday, we began the largest Balakatan exercise ever, shoulderto-shoulder in Tagalog. This exercise demonstrates a significant leap in allied firepower, integrating US land-based tomahawks with Philippine BRAMOS missiles and Japanese anti-ship missiles.
▶ 0:30:00Our alliances are rapidly fielding advanced capability. We're adapting to the changing character of warfare by driving towards information and decision superiority. We're accelerating our decision- making through our AI enhanced headquarters. strengthening our posture, improving integrated air and missile defenses, hardening key infrastructure, and increasing munitions throughput. The Congress and the Department have provided the resources.
▶ 0:30:29Now, industry must deliver, and with your continued support, we'll preserve peace through strength, and we will defend a free and open Indo-Pacific. Thank you very much. I'm ready for questions.
▶ 0:30:44Thank you, Admiral. General Brunson, you're recognized. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today alongside Admiral Paparo and ASW No regarding the security environment of the Republic of Korea in Northeast Asia.
▶ 0:31:02I extend my gratitude first to my staff, those arrayed behind me who've helped me to get here today, and they represent the soldiers, the sailors, the airmen, the marine, the guardians, and all those who wish us well from Korea. I especially want to thank the Korean people for their continued partnership, hospitality, and commitment to our alliance. The Korean Peninsula is key strategic terrain vital to defending the American homeland and advancing American interest in the region.
▶ 0:31:32Our forces in Korea are modernizing to address rapidly evolving strategic dilemmas. That's why my focus remains strictly on capabilities over numbers. While our presence is a baseline, it's imperative that we maintain focus on the precise capabilities that must be resonant on the peninsula. To truly understand this drift, this shift rather from capacity to capability. I encourage the committee to come come to Korea, observe the tri command firsthand.
▶ 0:32:01And should you visit us, you will see the readiness exemplified by our service members, civil servants, allies, and inter agency partners who defend not only this homeland, but also Korea. Across the peninsula, our war fighters build readiness. And some recent examples include ETH US Army in their training program which enabled our Korea rotational force to exceed 90% in most categories of readiness.
▶ 0:32:26The continued integration of our seventh air force, marine corpses forces Korea, naval forces Korea, special operations command Korea, and Space Force Korea components into US Indoaccom exercises demonstrate the potential to project power from Korea in support of deterrence across the greater Indo-Pacific.
▶ 0:32:48One thing I would like to mention as I as I go forward is our continued emphasis on things like a regional sustainment hub because of the importance of of sustainment to the region. I would also mention the fact that as we continue to work across the information domain, we not only communicate the centrality of the region to American interest, but also actively maneuver to neutralize misinformation and disinformation.
▶ 0:33:13will make all the changes necessary in cyber, EW, and space to develop a competitive advantage which can be utilized from the peninsula. The tri command, United Nations Command, Combined Forces Command, and US Forces Korea stand ready and capable to support a favorable balance of power across the region. That that balance deters aggression and supports a free and open Indo-acific.
▶ 0:33:39Our presence in the region is a driving force that has evolved our alliances over decades from dependencies to true partnerships. And while our cooperation and commitment in the region has maintained the armistice and deterred largescale large-scale conflict, our forces must remain vigilant. Together with the department, our inter agency teams, the United States Congress, and our multinational allies and partners, we will continue to demonstrate American strength in the region so that a favorable peace prevails.
▶ 0:34:08Under one flag, we go together, fight tonight. Kachi Kapida, I look forward to your
▶ 0:34:15I thank the witnesses and recognize myself for question. Uh, I'd like to start with both Admiral Paparro and General Brunson. Would you each of you take a couple of minutes and and share with us how you see our partners in the Indoacific supporting US security interest in the region? Start with you
▶ 0:34:33Morning chairman. Uh first indispensable to our success in the theater in deterring conflict and um most supportive just in the expansion of our exercise programs, the expansion of uh our more creative solutions on access spacing and overflight. An example is Balakatan. Presently right now, it's the premier exercise for the mutual defense of the Philippines. It means shoulder-to-shoulder.
▶ 0:35:00Japan is participating for the very first time uh in Balakatan actively participating in an exercise that exercises the self-defense of the Philippines. And so across the theater through all of our exercises and I could I could name through a laundry list of what they are. Uh the extent to which we are expanding into uh new fighting positions in order to meet our mutual defense obligations. Uh we're expanding the jointness and the range of the exercises.
▶ 0:35:29Bringing in more uh partners into minilateral and multilateral exercises. It's really inspiring. Okay. General
▶ 0:35:40and thank you chairman. Uh I would say much the same, but what I would add to that is their continued modernization of their forces allow us um to do other things. And and as you know with OPCON transfer, what we're looking at is maybe taking a look westward while also providing critical but more limited support to the North Korea mission. uh and I think we're able to do that as these forces continue to modernize and act in partnership with other nations within the region to participate uh in exercises.
▶ 0:36:10Rimac, which is coming up soon, will see Korea lead for the first time uh a multinational uh maritime effort. Uh we were just at Cobra Gold recently and the Korean participation there was the largest ever. And as we continue to open ourselves up to these multilateral opportunities that exist across the region, I think that makes things better for us in terms of human, procedural, and technological interoperability, which is absolutely necessary to maintain the peace in the region.
▶ 0:36:39Great. Thank you, Mr. No. Congress has provided authorities u and funding to support Taiwan's security uh and self-defense and in FY27 we're proposing increasing that um with the Taiwan security cooperation initiative and draw down authority. Why is the administration not been drawing down the funds it has more uh rapidly?
▶ 0:37:03Uh Mr. Chairman, first of all, thank you for your personal support on these important Taiwan security assistance initiatives, including TSCI, which you just mentioned. Um, the department has multiple tools at our disposal uh to provide security assistance to Taiwan, uh, FMS, PDA, TSCI.
▶ 0:37:22We're actively working to present options to our leadership including uh for Secretary Hexath and the president uh on uh different ways to provide security assistance uh to Taiwan and we'll continue to do so.
▶ 0:37:35Okay. General Brunson, the United States and South Korea agreed to a conditions related capabilities um security environment and must be met that it must be met before wartime operational control can be uh transferred to South Korea. How's that going?
▶ 0:37:56Chairman, I'll give you um more detail in closed based on some of the critical capabilities that need to be discussed, but I would say that uh right now we've delivered to OSW a road map which will get us there not later than second quarter of FY29. Uh and we'll continue to pursue that. Um as you know, chairman, we have the Korea integrated defense dialogue that's upcoming uh where a great many of these conditions be discussed.
▶ 0:38:23We've also got the uh military consultative meeting and the security consultative meeting which are also coming up to be held here in uh DC in early in the fall. Uh but I think that right now where we stand based on the continued investments by the Republic of Korea and their defense really an uplift of about 8.5% in their defense spending over the next three FY. Uh, I think that we're in a good position, but there's still more work to be done.
▶ 0:38:50And as you said, we will continue to press for the conditionsbased opcon transfer and ensure that all the conditions are met.
▶ 0:38:57And that's the point I hope that we keep in the four of our mind is that until those conditions are met, we do not need to be premature in transferring that operational control. With that, I yield to my friend, the ranking member.
▶ 0:39:11Thank you. Actually, the chairman hit on the first question I was going to ask. just follow up a little bit about sort of South Korean capability um to meet the threat from North Korea. If you could give a few more details about and I think you covered it fairly well, but timelinewise, you know, is there a point you see where South Korea get there? We talked a little bit about some of the logistical challenges.
▶ 0:39:32I mean, aside from just having the forces and the munitions being able to organize, um how do you assess South Korea's capability and how critical it is that we continue to partner with Chairman of Ranking Member Smith, thank you for the question. One of the things that I look at is when you look at the 10 largest armies in the world, South Korea is one of those and they're sitting at fifth right now. Um, so mass has equality all its own.
▶ 0:39:59So that would be reason number one as a as an infantry officer that I would say it's important that we continue to partner. Uh, I also think that geography plays into this as well. the centrality of Korea in the region, its ability to impose costs both in the West Sea and the East Sea. Uh when I look at their forces, what I'm most pleased with is the continued growth of their defense indust industry and the potential that exists for them to accelerate so that they can secure the capabilities that are absolutely necessary for OPCON transfer. as a partner.
▶ 0:40:29Um I would consider [clears throat] them and maybe it's because of where I live the preeminent partner in the region. Uh because I get to work and see them every day. So very happy with the relationship that we have. As you know, we just came out of our freedom shield exercise, which is a command post exercise largely, but there were 50 individual events where bilateral training occurred.
▶ 0:40:51uh in the future we want to continue to wrap the UN command into this exercise that we might have an a multilateral aperture to operate from as well but as a partner very pleased with them sir.
▶ 0:41:02Yeah and you don't see a point anytime soon when that splitting and us leaving would make sense.
▶ 0:41:09No sir I would not uh offer that as my best military advice or advice writ large that I would give to any of my
▶ 0:41:17Thank you. And Admiral Papar, as I mentioned in my opening statements, the impact of the war in the Middle East has been felt much more profoundly in Asia than it has here. It's not widely reported. As you talk with your partners, what sort of conversations do we have with them about how to mitigate the impacts? I mean, there are significant fuel fertilizer shortages. Is that impacting the flexibility, the ability of these nations um to continue to to work with us or more crucially to continue to keep their distance from China?
▶ 0:41:46Rank member, um we've taken some entrepreneurial approaches to uh some of the force elements that have been allocated to the US central command uh area responsibility notably Balakatan as a example and we'll have some other uh elements where we drive some more creativity in the process so that we can maintain the exercise objectives and uh our allies and partners have made some uh uh important shifts in order to continue to to uh support our military exercises thus
▶ 0:42:16far. Uh we've not gotten into the uh detail on the larger uh fuel implications for each individual partner nation. Uh but uh you know it's something that we're watching about the flow of energy into the Indoacific uh the linkage of economics to security and uh we're keeping a close eye on it.
▶ 0:42:36Yeah. But for now you say it hasn't yet impacted like some of the joint operations you're talking about. I mean, I I would think they would have to be scrambling at least a little bit to figure out how to allocate um scarce fuel resources. Yeah, we've in some cases we've uh we've used units that were uh you know, we have deployed a few units uh to substitute for capability that would be in the AO in the area of responsibility.
▶ 0:43:02We've not yet had to make hard fuel choices that have affected our ability to make do exercises, but it'll be an issue of concern moving forward.
▶ 0:43:11Thank you. And Mr. No, what what are your expectations for the president's summit? Um what what are we looking to accomplish and to come out of that summit, I think May 14th, um coming up. What What do we want to get out of that Uh, Reggie Member Smith, as you stated in your opening statement, uh, uh, Department of War uh, supports engagements with China.
▶ 0:43:34Um, I I was personally present along with Admiral Paparo when Secretary Hexath met with Admiral Admiral Dong Jun in Malaysia a few months ago. Uh, I know Under Secretary K's engaged with Ambassador Shiaong several times and at working levels. Uh, policies continue to engage with our counterparts at uh, in Beijing. So we're supportive of that and we're fully supportive of the president's desire to maintain a positive productive relationship with Xi Jinping. Uh
▶ 0:44:02thank you Mr. Chairman. I yel back.
▶ 0:44:04Gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Whitman's
▶ 0:44:07Thank you Mr. Chairman. I like to join uh thank our witnesses for joining us today. Admiral Paparo I want to begin with you. You had heard a little bit about the issues we're dealing with that is the tyranny of distance there where you have to deal with every day in the Indoaccom and then weapons magazine depth especially uh long range precision strike weapons like tomahawk prism jasm you name it we need those weapons the challenge is we've consumed those weapons in other ways and as weapons magazines get precariously low we need capacity and capability
▶ 0:44:38to be able to uh reconstitute those weapons magazine And you've said this. You've said current production timelines are misaligned with operational expenditures and threats we face today in today's global security environment. Essentially saying we're not building enough fast enough. Secretary Fineberg would agree with you and has done a lot of things there. Um looking to at what's happening right now, it's not just those exquisite weapons, but it's also attitudables and expendables.
▶ 0:45:03It's also being able to take technology that's there, things like the Lucas drone that we've been able to to use in ways uh using technology that's already out there from from believe it or not places like Iran and and getting that capability there to be able to to do that quickly to be able to produce that mass that does have an impact is going to be key going forward.
▶ 0:45:25So I just wanted to get get from you uh how are you working not only in the on the exquisite weapons magazine depth but also building that mass that attitudable and expendable mass quickly so that the Chinese look at it and go you know even though they may be able to hold us at risk and the webs gets bigger and bigger and bigger we've got some things too that are going to really make their risk calculus very complex.
▶ 0:45:50Give me your perspective on how you're trying to balance all those things, restocking exquisites, but also building quickly a magazine depth for a treatables and
▶ 0:45:59Congressman, good morning.
▶ 0:46:00Good morning.
▶ 0:46:00Uh you get to exactly the crux of the changing character warfare.
▶ 0:46:05Uh on arrival at US Indoacific Command, uh uh you know, I uh inadvertently coined the phrase hellscape as an operation. It wasn't quite so inadvertent, but uh uh and and this is something that I strongly believe. I think we're we see it uh every single day in Ukraine in this changing character warfare, the commoditization of cheap distributed precision kill.
▶ 0:46:33And uh this is a technology that we embrace or we lose, right? And uh I think this is absolutely critical and the especially in a denial defense where uh we need not fight for air or maritime superiority of a space. We need only deny it to an adversary who wishes to change the status quo with assault warfare.
▶ 0:46:57Um learning the lessons of Ukraine uh learning the lessons here uh in uh in the operation in the Middle East are critically important. And so uh Lucas is showing promise. Mirops is showing promise. Uh the budget uh has has a historic investment in unmanned and autonomous capabilities.
▶ 0:47:19And the Indo-Pacific in my view is space one where uh is you know it's it's the first theater where we must have the concepts in order to do it. There is a concept as you well know uh it is achievable uh rapidly on the timelines that we have discussed uh and accelerating that is really important also includes uh lowcost hypersonics as well and the department is making investments in lowcost hypersonics
▶ 0:47:50and lowcost cruise missiles because what we're also seeing is is that 90% of the capability frequently results in 10% of the actual cost and while we We need uh exquisite to take down exquisite things. We need cheap to take out uh less exquisite things and the the department is making those investments including uh in the u in the traditional defense industrial base and as discussed we must perform. Forgive me for the overly long answer.
▶ 0:48:19No, listen great great uh great uh perspective there. Let me ask this too. in in the theater, it's not just having that that offensive capability, but it's also about logistics, about support, about um uh the ability to to react and interoperate within that theater. And we know the Marine Corps has LSM coming on board to be able to move uh Marines and equipment around. But give me your perspective, too, because Army watercraft through the years have played a very, very important part of that.
▶ 0:48:46Tell me, how do we need Army watercraft in that in your theater? And what do we need to do to make sure we're putting as much focus there as we are with LSM?
▶ 0:48:55Yeah, Congressman, um, ships are the world's most effective means to move mass, material, and people over long distances. And if you're not doing sustainment, you ain't fighting. Yeah.
▶ 0:49:06Uh, you know, maybe the most important joint function and arguably the joint function that won the Second World War over the vast over the vast spaces of the Indoacific.
▶ 0:49:16Gentleman's time's expired. Here, I recognize a gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney. Thank you uh Mr. Chairman. Uh Admiral Paparo uh last year the AAS security agreement went through an intensive review by the Department of Defense which last October concluded that it was in America's national security interests to maintain its commitment to that program.
▶ 0:49:34When you testified last year before the committee, you forcefully stated that um provides a critical strategic benefit for all three countries having forward rotation of submarines in terms of both presence and readiness. Having read the AUS report from cover to cover, um I am pretty clear, it was pretty clear to me, um that your well-informed opinion uh had a decisive impact on the final verdict of the August review. So, here we are a year later.
▶ 0:50:02Uh maybe you could just sort of talk about what you see happening in terms of, you know, um you know, joint uh operations, joint crewing, um and how it's progressing.
▶ 0:50:13Yeah, good morning sir. Um well, one is that uh HMAS Sterling is on track for the rotational force uh that will arrive here in uh Perth um you know in a little over a year. And I I stated yesterday too is that between the pier, the shore power, the facilities with a tender and a marine security company, we could be ready today to operate a submarine squadron, a rotational submarine squadron out of Australia tomorrow.
▶ 0:50:43Um the Australian submariners performing well on the ships. They're performing well uh in the schools uh extremely well and u in every regard in pillar pillar one we're on track. We're making strides in pillar two among these non-traditional systems here and uh to have a rotational base in the Indian Ocean uh is is absolutely essential. My view is is that the AUS review didn't reflect my opinion.
▶ 0:51:12it reflected the facts. Uh it was affirmed in the report and uh I'm glad that my opinion was
▶ 0:51:19Um I mean there's no question having your sort of reality based presence and and your opinion definitely I think carried a lot of weight. So um you know in the last month or so I think um our country and our and certainly the congress has sort of rediscovered the importance of mind sweepers. Uh and I guess the what I would ask you is that in your uh area of command I mean is there also a need for mind sweepers to be sort of part of a fleet? Yes sir.
▶ 0:51:50We we have uh we have three mind sweepers assigned. We have MH60 mind sweeping helicopters assigned in the Indoacific AO. Uh uh everybody is investing in mines. mines is a sea denial capability and uh at points in a conflict you're going to have to open up what's called Q routes to restore commerce and so mind sweeping is a critical naval capability that we've got to invest in and so do our allies and partners.
▶ 0:52:18Thank you. and and um you know again looking at our fleet as it stands today again we we've got some Avenger classes just a couple left and then LCS um with the modules there um you know we have a pretty big budget that we're going to be taking up auxiliary ships are finally getting sort of uh their their day and you know in the sunshine and and um uh but I think it's something that you know we need to sort of examine just how well LCS's are performing that function.
▶ 0:52:48and whether or not really we the Navy needs to sort of maybe look at um some other sort of options
▶ 0:52:56and it's also I mean mind sweeping is the ideal mission set for autonomous systems uh also and so as we think about uh standoff mother ships that deploy autonomous systems to clear Q routes uh these are all areas for innovation but my dedication to the mission set of mind sweeping remains um you know uh unbroken
▶ 0:53:17right thank you I yield back.
▶ 0:53:22The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott,
▶ 0:53:25Thank you, Chairman. Gentlemen, all for being here today. Uh, for years, I'm one of those that have believed that China would choose economic influence over direct military conflict with regard to Taiwan. Uh, as we've seen in the recent news, Taiwan's opposition leader met with Chinese President Z, resulting in uh, flights being restored, uh, reopening tourism channels, easing of agricultural trade, and widening cultural access between the two nations. Um, Admiral Paparo.
▶ 0:53:55Um, in November uh, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General CQ Brown, who I have tremendous respect for, stated that, uh, Xi Jinping may seek to achieve objectives against Taiwan without using force. Do you agree with this assessment?
▶ 0:54:13Yes, sir.
▶ 0:54:15In your judgment, what are the primary non-kinetic pathways China could use to achieve control over Taiwan short of an Sir these f first of all united front operation information operations uh to sway public opinion uh to distort the truth uh to separate uh citizens from their government uh these are efforts it's an ongoing continuous effort uh not just in Taiwan but all throughout the Asia Pacific in fact all throughout the world uh
▶ 0:54:45on the record for that certain lawfare actions a quarantine uh uh that uh sets new customs entities uh backed up by law enforcement type forces like Maritime Security Administration, China Coast Guard. These are all contingencies that we plan very deeply.
▶ 0:55:05Uh and then um up the ladder uh into the uh into the low kinetic small island seizures and uh other demonstrations from quarantine to near blockade to blockade are all other means by which uh they could potentially coersse with force or near force uh a uh their objectives and that is the preferred route for the people's republic of China.
▶ 0:55:31A a blockade on against the islands on the mainland side of the straits. There's there's nothing anybody can do about that short of allout war.
▶ 0:55:40is that a fair statement?
▶ 0:55:41I think grayzone must be met with grayzone direct and indirect and we ignore that missionary at our peril.
▶ 0:55:49Well, you've you've I'm going to ask my next question which I think you've just answered. Uh in your judgment, is the United States overfocused on invasion scenarios at the expense of those alternative approaches? Well, I don't think we're overfocused because we must always be planning for the worst case scenario, but uh I will tell you that um we need all of government solutions to account for all of government solutions from the People's Republic of China.
▶ 0:56:15I think in many areas we've focused too much on the kinetic and not enough on the gray. I think we've done that in Africa and we've lost Africa to the to the Russians and the Chinese because of not paying attention to social media and the other things, the disinformation campaigns that they've done. Uh, General Brunson, um, I did notice in your not in your written bio, but your your dad was a sergeant major, if I'm not I bet I bet you weren't late for dinner, were you?
▶ 0:56:41Oh, not not at all. And and I appreciate you saying that. I know he and my mother are watching this right now.
▶ 0:56:47Well, it u I'm I'm I'm sure she is an exceptional lady. To uh to be able to keep a sergeant major in line, she would have to be. But uh congratulations on uh your success as a fourstar. I have tremendous respect for all of you who achieved that rank and I mean that admiral to you as well. Um you too secretary. Um before I get to the question, I want to say this.
▶ 0:57:14I think the firing of of General George was an extreme disservice to the United States Army. And I think it was reckless uh conduct. And I I don't I don't think many of us let me say it this way. Some of us are not through asking the questions about that. I don't I don't expect any of you any of you to answer. But um how are China and Russia's relationship affecting the stability on the peninsula and what changes have you seen since you have been there?
▶ 0:57:45Congressman, thank you for the question. Um, what I would say is if if you would imagine an Oreo and you say China's the cookie part and Russia's the other cookie part and DPRK's in the middle. So now you've got this salient that's been created of cooperation amongst, you know, these authoritarian colluders. That's changed the region significantly.
▶ 0:58:07Uh, it's changed it by way of the way that North Korea gets material that they then use to pressure South Korea. I think it changes the way that they develop weapon systems because it's coming either from east of them or west of them. The connectivity across those three nations is something that we can't belly. We've got to pay attention to this because it changes the way that North Korea acts.
▶ 0:58:31Gentleman's time's expired here and I recognize gentleman from California, Mr.
▶ 0:58:36Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Admiral Paparo, in your final comments uh to Mr. quickly about the Pacific. Uh you entered the discussion about resupply, about how we can maintain the position of the United States and you also brought up World War II where it was perhaps one of the most critical issues in the Pacific. It's a very very big ocean.
▶ 0:59:03uh the US Navy is not going to be able even with the extraordinary increase in its budget to provide the necessary support vessels and we're developing under the leadership of Mr. Trent Kelly uh a proposal uh that is now maturing with the administration on a maritime strategy commercial maritime that could be the answer to the support that would be necessary in the Pacific.
▶ 0:59:33Uh I don't know that I expect you to comment on it uh extensively other than to uh highlight the potential problems. An extended uh conflict in the Pacific. We simply cannot sustain that. Uh the issue of tankers was raised uh in conjunction with the fuel situation, but that fuel's got to go on something and that would be a tanker. We don't have them.
▶ 0:59:59We could uh using the uh advanced opportunities that are presented in the U ships act develop a domestic maritime tanker fleet that could be available as it was in the early days of World War II uh to support the military. We'll be moving that along later today and in the days ahead.
▶ 1:00:22But I would like you to comment on um the potential support that could come from an expanded maritime commercial maritime fleet if we were able to develop it in the United States. Right now we don't, but we could. Congressman Garmenti, we already have extensive agreements in the volunteer tanker uh program uh with maritime shippers.
▶ 1:00:46And so it's a proven concept and as you say I think it's the it's the closest strongest capability that we're going to get in order to uh close the tyranny of distance and the physics of energy mass and people across 8,000 miles of the Pacific. I associate myself very strongly with your statement and I'm supportive of the initiative.
▶ 1:01:08Thank you very much. It would be useful as we proceed with the uh ships act to have some detail about what is needed as you see it. It's it's a shifting u mosaic out there. Uh and the other thing I do want to get into is the uh essential role of our allies. You've speak both of you have uh uh spoke to that issue. Uh our allies um are working closely with both of you.
▶ 1:01:38Uh on the military side uh the political side is not so good. Uh there are significant problems that have been developed. Tariffs for one and other and Joe talked to the issue of Uh could you wade into something that is important but not your principal subject matter? How is it going on the political side?
▶ 1:02:06Admiral. Sir, I think um our Pacific allies have been um extremely circumspect, stoical moving forward, treasuring the relationship and pragmatically working together uh towards solutions and uh though our mill-to-mill relationships are always on an upward trajectory and uh are uh you know are a counterweight to the peaks and valleys of political discourse.
▶ 1:02:34Um, I've credit our IndoPacific allies on their uh stoicism and their problem solving approach.
▶ 1:02:41Thank you, General. Sir, I I would say that uh by virtue of process alone and the procedures that we follow, they're intricately wound together. The two I won't speak to the politics, but when you look at things like the security consultative meeting that goes to the secretariat level where those meetings will take place uh which involve us uh recent uh appointment of an ambassador um to the Republic of Korea also helps.
▶ 1:03:08So the military allows us time and space for those other relationships to continue to develop and I'll just close by those political relationships are ultimately as important as a military and so we should be paying attention to that as we go about our work. I'll yield back.
▶ 1:03:27Gentlemen yields back. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Tennessee, Dr. Deja Le.
▶ 1:03:30Thank you, chairman, and I appreciate all of our witnesses for being here today. Um, Admiral Paparo, I'd like to start with you. uh based on the three incredibly and complex uh successful operations recently carried out by the United States military, have you sensed any change in in China's posture, behavior, and calculation uh in terms of risk associated with getting an engagement with the United States? And to put it more briefly, does this make them want to expedite or to delay?
▶ 1:03:58Congressman, I I think that the operational success achieved by the joint force um has um demonstrated capability and has enhanced the deterrence of the United States of America and I think it's made the People's Republic of China more cautious moving forward through the demonstration of capability and will.
▶ 1:04:19Thank you. And I I think you and I share common belief in the importance of space. You've mentioned it in your opening statement and I couldn't agree more but we all know that uh space and information superiority will be the key to winning the wars of the future. How can uh this committee work to ensure we have space dominance in light of our adversaries China, Russia, North Korea developing space and counterpace
▶ 1:04:43Congressman, cyber and space counterpace is the very first battle uh of any conflict and it will be in the 21st century. that is that that underpins the ability of a military to see, understand, decide and act. And in fact, for China, we've seen the proliferation of their constellation over the last six years go from 250 to over,00 u military satellites uh including counterp capabilities.
▶ 1:05:14So um this is the number one priority for United States Indo-Pacific Command is counter C5 ISR&T counter intelligence surveillance reconnaissance and targeting and the space portfolio is the number one uh funding priority that's that's submitted in our 12xx 13xx reports and so I'm very grateful for the committee's work on
▶ 1:05:37Thank you General Brunson. As uh we are all aware, North Korea is continuing to develop and test new weapon systems, including the unveiling of a new submarine platform, escalating activity around their nuclear development sites, and of course, Sunday's ballistic missile test. Uh how have these test developments impacted your command? Congressman, um one of the ways that it's impacted the command is we're continuing to try to shore up our ability to see, sense, and understand uh as these uh launches happen.
▶ 1:06:07Uh over the past year or really since January of 2025, there have been 61 total launches. 37 of those have been um cruise missiles and I believe 23 have been uh other ballistic forms that they've uh they've shot. Um and I would suffice it to say that what we're also trying to do is ensure that the trilateral cooperation in terms of integrated air missile defense and ballistic missile defense is continuing to stay sharp.
▶ 1:06:33And so what we really want to try to do in the future, you know, you heard Admiral Paparo mention C5 ISRT. Uh that's both blue and green uh as we look at the red. And so what we want to do is try to ensure that these pathways that connect us together with our allies in the region are absolutely sound in the event that they become degraded over time.
▶ 1:06:54How concerned are you about the increased cooperation between North Korea, Russia, and China? We talk about the axis of evil. Iran seem to be part of that. No one seems to be rushing too fast in their defense. But uh h how has that also impacted your calculations?
▶ 1:07:12It's impacted because it changes the capabilities that are resident within the primary adversary for for US forces Korea today and that's deterring DPRK. Uh in closed, I look forward to letting you know some of the things that we've discovered recently that give us great alarm in terms of the um the sharing of TTP across that that salient that I spoke about earlier.
▶ 1:07:36Um poor analogy with the Oreo, but that that cookie that exists out there is absolutely dangerous to us right now and it's continuing to develop in quick time. Okay,
▶ 1:07:45I'll yield back. Chairman, Mr. Strickland is recognized. Thank you, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today in your continued service.
▶ 1:08:02I represent Joint Base Lewis McChord, where forces like First Corps and the Multi-Doom Task Force are directly tied to the The 2026 National Defense Strategy emphasizes deterrence by denial, but deterrence only works if it's credible in the near term, not just in future force design. So I want to focus my questions on whether we are positioned today to meet that standard. Admiral Papara, I'm going to move over so I can make eye contact with you.
▶ 1:08:30Um representing JBLM where first corps and the multi-dommain task force are directly tied to the Indopacific mission at an unclassified level. Do you believe that US forces today post are postured to maintain credible deterrence against China in the near term?
▶ 1:08:46I do I do believe that we're postured correctly and um but a very important element of that and this is particular with regard to JBLM among other locations in the western United States is the mobility of forces uh to move and that mobility is underpinned by uh air and maritime capability that can rapidly move forces.
▶ 1:09:08All right, maybe I've answered my followup. um the top one or two capability areas where additional progress is most needed now.
▶ 1:09:16Well, you know, I've talked about the changing character warfare and so munitions is the you know, uh counter C5 ISR and munitions is critically important. uh but sustainment and sustainment includes the ability to deploy the ability to phase that's a key area for uh for improvement and that is maritime vessels including army watercraft that's uh that is air cargo aircraft that's tanker aircraft really across the whole spectrum
▶ 1:09:46thank you sir now moving on to general roughly 28,500 US service members are stationed in the Republic of Korea with many serving two to three-year tours in support of one of our most visible forward deterrence missions, including personnel who support operations tied to the DMZ.
▶ 1:10:08Given your operational experience and leadership on the Korean Peninsula, how do you assess the readiness of the combined US ROK force today to deter aggression from North
▶ 1:10:20Congresswoman Strickland, thank you for the question. Um I would assess us having just exercised this formation in February as being prepared uh to deter.
▶ 1:10:31Thank you. Uh Mr. No, deterrence is not only about military capability but also about the strength and alignment of our alliances. So I'd like to turn to you on this point. In the 2026 National Defense Strategy, it calls for stronger contributions from allies and partners in the Indoacific to ensure our alliances remain strong and aligned.
▶ 1:10:52What clear expectations has the Department of Defense communicated to our allies and partners regarding the capabilities, investments, or contributions needed to strengthen collective deterrence? And how's the department assessing whether those efforts are producing the intended deterrent effect?
▶ 1:11:09Uh, Congresswoman, thank you for your question. And as I said uh in my opening statement um reestablishing deterrence uh in the Indoacific is not uh a task that America uh can or ought to do on its own. So the role of our allies and partners is absolutely essential uh and critical. Uh we have been building strong relationships and I can I'd be happy to go into each and every one of them but uh with allies and partners throughout the region.
▶ 1:11:39Uh we have been asking uh wealthy and capable allies uh to step up uh including with spending. Uh President Trump made a historic achievement last year at the at the NATO HG summit uh in getting NATO countries to increase their defense core defense spending to 3.5% of their GDP. Um that is the global standard as the NSS and the NDS uh both clearly lay out.
▶ 1:12:07Uh we are asking our allies and partners to to do that to to increase spending and to meet the global standard. Uh and we're seeing progress. Uh Republic of Korea a couple months ago became the first non NATO ally to commit to increasing spending to 3.5% of their GDP. Um and as the chairman mentioned um Taiwan is also taking significant steps to increase uh its spending.
▶ 1:12:32Uh so we're uh seeing progress across the board and we'll continue to push our allies and partners to do their part.
▶ 1:12:38Um where's Japan as far as their
▶ 1:12:42Uh Japan um is in the process of revising uh its three national security defense strategy documents. Uh we're in we're in constant communication with uh our Japanese uh counterparts allies uh uh on this issue and we look forward to seeing uh progress on this front from
▶ 1:13:00gentle lady from Washington's time is expired. Chair, I recognize gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Kelly.
▶ 1:13:06General Brunson, I also want to commend you on having a sergeant major for a father. I have a first sergeant for a father who's passed and a brother who was a command sergeant major. And as an officer, I don't know how to act right, but I do know what right looks like. I I find myself well associated with those comments,
▶ 1:13:26you know, and that being said, I see uh Sergeant Major and senior enlisted leaders there on the back row and uh the strength of the American military, which is why China or Russia or Iran or any other of our enemies will never be on the same par with us is because of the skill of our NCO and the professionalism that has existed for decades. And we are a strong military because of the greatest NCO corps in the history of the world. Agreed.
▶ 1:13:57Admiral Papara, I want to thank all you witnesses for being here, but for you as we look to the Indoacific where the stakes uh for long-term competition are highs. We are also managing realtime demands in other regions of the world. This puts a premium on readiness, responsiveness, and strong partnerships. The strategy is clear. We want to deter conflict while competing effectively every day.
▶ 1:14:20I'm particularly interested in how we are to respond in the early hours of crisis and whether our forward forces are positioned and available to do that. And Admiral Papara, as part of the president's budget, the Navy has requested a significant increase in ship procurement in line with the president's golden fleet initiative. The Navy's plan includes new classes of ships like the LSM for the Marine Corps, a new class of frig frigot, a new battleship.
▶ 1:14:45How will these new classes of ships enable you and future Indoaccom commanders to deter China and if necessary defeat them in war? Sir, uh good morning. Thank you. Indeed. Um is that ships exist, warships exist to move energy, mass, and people across long distances and there's no substitute for it.
▶ 1:15:08So I'm strongly in support of each of those new new classes, the battleship, the frigot, the LSM, along with accelerating the other classes of ships across the Navy's plan in Golden Fleet for America. Also including the initiatives on increasing our maintenance capability and then maint and then increasing the nation's overall maritime manufacturing power and uh there's just absolutely no substitute for it.
▶ 1:15:34And as a quick example, uh, in the last 24, in the last 18 months, China has delivered 12 submarines, including an SSBN, they've delivered, uh, seven frigots, eight destroyers, two cruisers, three amphib, and three combat logistics force ships, and an aircraft carrier in just the last 18 months. They do so to command the sea.
▶ 1:16:03and uh and we've got to meet that challenge as we have in the past.
▶ 1:16:08I'm very uh had a question from a reporter yesterday asking me about what I thought about the uh Golden Fleet and the battleships and all that. And listen, it's still something that's maturing in process. But the bottom line, the investment of billions into that program on the left end, still is steel, whether it's in a carrier, whether it's in a destroyer or whether it's in the new battleship, but still is still. So the procurement of all those things left of build is still important regardless.
▶ 1:16:38And what I know is our infrastructure here in America, which is why I have the ships of America act with uh Mr. G Mindy and members of the Senate. It's important that we invest. If we're going to be a maritime nation, it means we have to build ships. We have to train sailors, both civilian and military. How important is it logistics in a place like the Pacific, which is so far to get?
▶ 1:17:04How important are refuelers both on the sea and in the air to your I can talk to in classified hearing about just how much tonnage and how many how many millions of pounds of jet fuel must be airborne at any at any given time. But it's a sineuan without which not for com for combat
▶ 1:17:27And regardless of the type of ships and this applies to you too, General Brunson, you're kind of on a peninsula there in the far reaches of the world. It matters that we have tonnage in the water. Regardless of what that tonnage consists of, there is a a high [snorts] value just in the quality and quantity of ships that we have on the sea, whether manned or unmanned. Is that correct? I want
▶ 1:17:50All right. With that, I yield back, Mr.
▶ 1:17:53Gentleman yields back. Chairman recognized gentleman from California, Mr. Carbajal.
▶ 1:17:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. The 2025 national security strategy states, "President Trump is building alliances and strengthening partnerships in the Indo-Pacific that will be the bedrock of security and prosperity long into the future." Mr. No, do you think the constant barrage of onagain off-again tariffs coming from this administration are helping to strengthen partnerships in the Indo-acific?
▶ 1:18:28A simple yes or no.
▶ 1:18:31Congressman, I can speak from personal experience. We have and continue to maintain the strongest relationships with all our allies and partners uh throughout the region.
▶ 1:18:42Simple yes or no.
▶ 1:18:44What was your question? Do you think the constant barrage of onag again off-again tariffs coming from this administration are helping to strengthen partnerships in the Indoacific? A simple yes or no.
▶ 1:18:59Congressman, I again I'll say from
▶ 1:19:01It's okay. I'll move on. Over the last year or so, our soft power has diminished significantly and a big part of that is due to the gutting of USA ID under Doge. While Congress worked to restore some of this funding, most programs did not come back to previous levels. This includes programs in several Southeast Asian countries. Mr. No, one more time.
▶ 1:19:26Was there ever any concern that cutting foreign aid to key countries in the Pacific would help position China as a viable alternative to the United States?
▶ 1:19:38Uh, Congressman, uh, State Department is in the lead on issues of foreign aid. So I would refer your question to the State
▶ 1:19:46Thank you. We have a massive foreign military sales FMS issue which is being worsened by the war of choice in Iran. One stark example are the 66 F-16s Taiwan purchased back in 2019. Delivery was supposed to begin in 2023, but just recently the first two aircraft would were formally accepted. But these are not in Taiwan and not available to be used in conflict yet.
▶ 1:20:14Admiral Paparo, how important is it that capabilities purchased through FMS be delivered on schedule? And do you think Taiwan would benefit by having these F-16s? Now,
▶ 1:20:27Congressman, uh there are problems in our FMS programs. Uh I think the department is working really hard on fix of those problems. I think the state department is working really hard on fixing those state departments. Integrated air and missile defense is going to be absolutely critical. Uh that is across all domains and that uh that includes and it's also across all zones of conflict. So I think it's important that every FMS delivery is delivered uh not just on time but early.
▶ 1:20:58Thank you. Admiral Paparo. In your testimony before this committee last year, you underscored the rapid advancement of China's military capabilities, including its growing investments in space and counterpace systems. I understand that the commercial remote sensing industry has played a critical role in supporting the COCOMs to ensure that our war fighters have access to persistent, realtime, actionable data.
▶ 1:21:24However, the department's budget once again does not reflect that important partnership. Can you discuss the importance of continued investments in commercial solutions to meet operational requirements and how could expanded access improve domain awareness in your AO?
▶ 1:21:44Thank you, Congressman. The um persistent commercial capability so greatly augments our uh unique and exquisite on orbit capability and the mass data analytics of multiple inputs provides a precision all its own. I think it adds resiliency. It adds to the constancy of the picture getting us closer to a stare than a blink.
▶ 1:22:11and uh we're working with a number of commercial companies in order to bring those on board and we continue to advocate for those investments.
▶ 1:22:19Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Gentleman yields back here. I recognize gentleman from Nebraska, Mr.
▶ 1:22:25Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here, gentlemen. We appreciate you. I have four questions. I'm going to try to get right to the point. Admiral Paparo, the Air Force is increasing its requirement for B21s from 100, now we're looking about 140 or 145. How good a news is that for you for your war plans and deterrence?
▶ 1:22:43Congressman, that's very good news and I welcome even better news if we're able to do it.
▶ 1:22:48Okay, that's good. I like that. Secondly, I flew in the call aircraft for 11 years, the EC130s. It's transitioning to the EA37s. When I came in 10 years ago, we had six to program a record. And through digging up under couch cushions and scraping and tugging and pulling and with the support of the chairman, we got it to 12. and I think we got three more in the upcoming budget. Now, I understand the requirement from Paycom is 22. So, can you talk about the importance of the EA37?
▶ 1:23:15Uh because I'm blessed to have a good committee that supports this, but I'd like them to know how important it is to you,
▶ 1:23:20Congressman. There's there's dozens of systems that uh contribute to our counter C5R&T, you know, military speak for counter intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and targeting. EA37 compass call is a critical lynch pin in that uh through all zones of conflict through the gray zone into high-end conflict.
▶ 1:23:42So we're strongly supportive of that capability as well as all of the other capabilities on orbit on the surface and in the air that contribute to our ability uh to execute the counter C5 ISR and T mission and build out our intel pictures.
▶ 1:23:58Mr. Chairman, we getting us to 15 on this budget. We're getting close to the paycom requirement and I'm excited about that. Joe Brunson, we're we're listening to news about some of the air defenses being moved out of Korea to the Middle East. Uh can you talk is this impacting you or are you feel adequately covered right now?
▶ 1:24:16No. No impacts to our ongoing missions and and operations. Congressman Admiral Paparo, how far behind are we with military sales to Taiwan? Because I'm concerned about deterrence. We don't want a war, but if they have adequate sea mines, anti-shipping missiles, air and missile defense, China's less likely to attack. So, this is so important for
▶ 1:24:37Sir, if I may, I'll talk to you in close session on that.
▶ 1:24:39Okay. One one last question. I'll get a fifth one in because you you guys are they're concise today.
▶ 1:24:46How how are we doing with building rapport and relationship with India, the largest democracy on this planet?
▶ 1:24:53Well, I was there last month, visited Chandakar in Punjab State. I was in Delhi uh and uh and in Bangaloru as well and uh it is a really it is a really key emphasis uh the miltomill relationship particularly is on an upward trajectory the mean of the relationship between the United States is on a upward trajectory uh it is one of my most visited partners it is one of my most communicated with mil-to-mill partners in general Neil Chowan
▶ 1:25:23and it is absolutely a priority
▶ 1:25:25and this is a g a gamechanging trend that we can build on. Okay, one more question. Something I asked your predecessor four or five years ago, you know, if you go to Europe, it's a lot of multilateral relationships, NATO, but if you go to the the Pacific theater, it's a lot of bilateral relationships with Hawaii, sort of in the middle of the hub.
▶ 1:25:44Would would we be better served if we tried to foster more multilateral where Japan's got relationships with Australia and you got you know would it be stronger or is that or is we're just too early for that yet?
▶ 1:25:57Well, Congressman I think we're in the we're in the middle of this now in our quad relationship.
▶ 1:26:03That's US, Japan, India, Australia. uh in our defense cooperation council between Australia, Republic of the Philippines, Japan, United States uh in the Korea, Japan, US Trilater uh in the United States as a comprehensive strategic partner to Azon and a member of the ADMM plus uh you know all over we see these multilaterals are g are getting richer,
▶ 1:26:34they're getting bigger all of the time. It's happening organically and it's really
▶ 1:26:39Thank you again. I thank all three of you for your your leadership. And uh Mr. Chairman, I'll give you back 40 seconds. You're awesome.
▶ 1:26:47All right. Just for situational awareness, we've been called for votes. So, we're going to get Mr. Keating in and after that, we will recess until after votes. But with that, the gentleman from Massachusetts to
▶ 1:26:56Thank you, Mr. Chairman. just want to deal with China's engagement with Russia uh in terms of its strengthening Moscow's ability to sustain itself in the war in Ukraine. Uh you know it's obviously their imports of Russian oil and natural gas is helping in terms of revenue uh with Russia so they can sustain the effort and also their exports of dual use uh goods and technology uh that that really help them sustain the defense production uh as well.
▶ 1:27:26Do you want to comment on China's activity with Russia?
▶ 1:27:29Congressman, on top of being a a uh the key [clears throat] critical market for their energy, uh China produced China provides 90% of the semiconductors that power Russia's war machine and 70% of the machine tools that powers Russia's war machine. Uh that connection is real. It's right before our very eyes and it's deeply concerning.
▶ 1:27:52Yeah. the uh you know there's been many uh uh retired military and uh pundits if you will talking about the fact that our strategic uh goal in uh the Indoacific and particularly with China is deterrence and the US actions their comments uh as well as mine uh are the deterrence factors weakened by the US lack of commitment to Ukraine particularly its actions with NATO.
▶ 1:28:19Uh, I mean just calling NATO, you know, freeloaders, calling NATO pathetic, uh, calling them recently paper tigers, uh, saying the troops were in the back of the line for our confrontation even though they were there under article 5 the only time it was initiated.
▶ 1:28:36I mean, when you're looking at that effect of Ukraine uh with China and the US uh actions uh around Ukraine, doesn't that weaken our deterrence as China's looking at it with Taiwan in particular? That's just not my feeling. I think it's a majority of people that more people that are retired from the military than current military uh in that regard. So, I don't want to get you uh into policy before you had to, but uh it seems to me that's clear.
▶ 1:29:05Perhaps you could answer it, Mr. Noble. Let's leave the military out of that policy issue for now. Congressman, I think the relationships we're building with our allies and partners speak for themselves. I think our activities, our our posture, uh what Indopaccom is doing with its uh OIS, I think they speak for themselves. Uh so no, I I don't think there's been any kind of erosion of deterrence.
▶ 1:29:34uh in the Indo Pacific.
▶ 1:29:36Well, you must admit you're saying speak for themselves. Those that's just a free sampling of what I've had about what the Secretary of Defense or the president has said about our NATO allies. I think they speak for themselves. So, isn't that something that kind of fractured relationship? Doesn't that hurt us uh with our deterrent, you know, posture in in the Indoacific and China? You don't think so,
▶ 1:30:00Congressman? We're doing everything we can in close coordination with Indoecom and USFK uh with Admiral Paparo and General Brunson to make sure
▶ 1:30:09I'm not concerned about the military cooperation, sir. I'm concerned about uh the commander-in-chief and the secretary and their comments uh as it affects that deterrent effect. Sir, we will the department will always make sure we're ready to respond to any kind of contingency and that we're able to deter any threat uh in the in in the
▶ 1:30:31So, just I'll give you one more chance. So, the actions we've taken in Ukraine pulling back and the language and the fracturing of our NATO alliance. I didn't even mention trying to uh invade a NATO country like Denmark through Greenland, but that affects the deterrent posture of the US when they see that fracturing because one of our greatest strengths has been the coalition we've had uh the the global coalition particularly with NATO.
▶ 1:31:00So how does that not hurt the deterrent effect uh that the US poses on China when that's weakened by the statements of our top people
▶ 1:31:13including the president and the secretary of of defense
▶ 1:31:16sir our deterrence posture in the Indoacific strong and we'll make sure it stays that way
▶ 1:31:22you repeated yourself I just think that uh that's something that has really hurt us you know hurt us globally but particularly hurt us in the Indo Pacific. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 1:31:33Gentleman yields back. Uh we will now recess until approximately 11:55 to 12. Um and thank you. You got a
▶ 2:27:47right, let's uh let's go ahead and get started while members filter back. We apologize. It took longer than we expected. Uh there was another committee that could not make it to the floor in time and it ke held us up. But we're back now.
▶ 2:28:04All right. So we will now recognize the gentleman from Guam, Mr. Moland, for five minutes for his questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our panel here today. I appreciate all our interest in Indoaccom especially with the our my home on Guam. I also want to thank uh my my good colleague uh Joe Wilson who has been a strong advocate for the islands as well.
▶ 2:28:33Uh Admiral Paparo, I appreciate all your support for Guam and I know you have our the nation's best interests uh in hand when you for the our defense being the most western soil that we have.
▶ 2:28:48Um, one of my biggest uh, long-standing requests for Indopaccom has been expanding our investments in Guam's power grid uh, which is large largely still owned by the war department and I've been advocated for the use of authorities under uh, 10 USC 2815 to underground more of our power lines to ensure the grid can meet Department of War's growing demands.
▶ 2:29:18uh for electricity. So what do you view as the best path for DOW to support Guam Power Authority in expanding infrastructure and meeting military requirements?
▶ 2:29:31Congressman uh good afternoon. Thank you. Uh you you're well aware of how important shore power is to uh Naval Base Guam and that is to get high fidelity reliable power shore power uh to the submarine squadron.
▶ 2:29:47that's there and the overall resilience of Guam uh which is so important to our nation's defense is so important to us at US Indo-Pacific command and on all the things that we're cooperating on on the hospitals uh on uh on the building out of critical infrastructure uh you know there are direct defense benefits to that and so not just for the reliable shore power that provides power to naval
▶ 2:30:17base but for the to the entire island. You can count on my complete support for that infrastructure also the critical infrastructure that supports Guam defense system which is also so very
▶ 2:30:30I thank you for that and uh as they we experienced in this last storm uh the utilities and coming bringing them back up uh and th those winds weren't as bad but the storm just stayed for 3 days and the high surf and all made big difference. So working with department of war uh helping with our finance to complete the power requirements that we need will be excellent. I thank you for your support on that.
▶ 2:30:55Uh in addition, let's talk about our civilian employees uh uh that are department of defense employees uh their living quarter allowance. As we know we have uh high expenses on Guam and the employees hired off island uh do have LQA. the employees hired from Guam do not and end up going uh to the mainland to get that additional funding. So, we did include the LQA in in uh the recent NDAA.
▶ 2:31:25I'm just wondering how when would this be
▶ 2:31:29Uh I'll have to get back with you on when it's implemented, but I do want to express my support for it. Uh Guam is one of those locations where cost of living uh including cost of housing is so expensive. We're trying to relieve some of that cost of housing with our own uh construction of on-base housing facilities to take the pressure off.
▶ 2:31:49But for our uh our civilian employees, uh ensuring that their compensation meets their living expenses so we can continue to attract and sustain the best civilian workforce uh is essential and I you know I I'll work with you on that and I'll get back to you on the time frame.
▶ 2:32:06I thank you sir. Uh and lastly, we me you mentioned the um our medical facilities. We just don't have enough. If conflict does happen, we don't we don't have enough at all with and if conflict doesn't happen with all the troops coming on in our pediatric ward uh is not not capable, right? We're we're hoping people will have a good time and wanting to start their families on Guan. That that would be terrific. So, we need that support, especially with our hospitals. Our Navy hospital is way too small.
▶ 2:32:36wasn't meant to be built for that and our civilians hospitals don't have the capacity. So if you can ensure that we can with GPA also our hospital gets assistance please
▶ 2:32:48that I will sir and and um governor Lou my dear friend and I are in lock step on the civilian hospital in Guam as well as to continue the personnel enhancements to naval hospital Guam. Uh and I'll also add the uh enhancements that we've made for medical at uh camp blah as well. But all of it's all of it's critical for our defense. Thank you.
▶ 2:33:10Thank you to the panel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh gentleman yields back here and I recognize gentle from Colorado, Mr. Crow.
▶ 2:33:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield my five minutes to the gentleman from California, Congressman Tran.
▶ 2:33:24Thank you so much to my friend and colleague, Representative Crow, for yielding. Thank you, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and thank you to all of the witnesses for being here Next [clears throat] Thursday, April 30th, marks the 51st anniversary of Black April and the fall of Saigon. As the son of Vietnamese refugees, I know how imperative it is to recognize the solemn day. That is history. That history is a prime example of why this committee and this Congress should be focused on the Indo-Pacific.
▶ 2:33:53I also represent Joint Forces Training Base in Los Alamos, a missionritical base for the Pacific. So, I think it's fair to say that my community and I understand better than most that detering the Chinese Communist Party's aggression, expansion, and influence has to be the number one priority of the Department of Defense.
▶ 2:34:12Which is why it is also concerning that there are reports stating that resources from the Indoacific are being transferred to the Middle East to support the administration's war of choice in Iran, a war that's claimed the lives of 13 service members. General Brunson, is it true that resources from the US forces Korea have been redirected to the Middle Congressman, thank you for the question. I would prefer to answer that question in close.
▶ 2:34:44I appreciate that and I I I will follow up uh in close session. Um in in the event with uh our resources being sent to uh you know the Middle East uh Admiral Paparo, how has the movement of resources put our soldiers and interests in the Indoacific at risk? You know, I along with my uh my good friend General Brunson, I'd like to talk about that uh in close session. Uh we do have forces that are operating in the Middle East.
▶ 2:35:14Uh and um and um we do expect the return of those resources. We've taken entrepreneurial approaches uh to maintain our program of exercises. We do maintain a combat ready reserve. uh the military is always in the action of uh controlling for risk. Uh and uh we can get we can get deeper into the individual movements when we are in close session.
▶ 2:35:39Uh but um you know uh I'll also say that uh those forces in the Indoacific are uh experiencing combat and there's no substitute for combat and there will be direct applicability to the Indo-Pacific. I appreciate that, Admiral. And you know, our military has been asked to uh do a lot this year with multiple conflicts and operations across the world. If this keeps up for too long, uh such a high demand could actually undermine our military readiness rather than improve it.
▶ 2:36:09Uh we're already seeing the USS Ford on track to break the longest deployment for an aircraft carrier since the Vietnam War. Uh Admiral Paparo, uh from your perspective, are we approaching a point where the demand on our troop is degrading our readiness? Congressman, there you know there are finite limits to the employment of the gear where it's got to go back for maintenance availabilities.
▶ 2:36:32I I've not yet seen where depot level maintenance has been affected for our aircraft or ship availability has been affected for our ships. I've not seen that uh in particularly in the Indo Indopacific. it is something that we keep an eye on and then uh you know I've got an a strong dialogue with the department on ensuring that the department is aware of what the risks are at this time uh there's not been a degradation of readiness at at at this time
▶ 2:37:01appreciate that and General Brunson what are your thoughts on uh the particular the forces within the uh Korean
▶ 2:37:11congressman thank you for the question and this I can't answer right now and I would tell you that um what we have in a model ally in Korea is simply this about 20% of the cost of stationing forces forward is borne by the Koreans and that through the special measures agreement which takes into account about uh half a billion dollars in in terms of what would be milcon that the department of war would have to bear which they don't have to bear because that's paid for by the Korean the rockf funded
▶ 2:37:41construction uh we also get about an 85 5% uh blessing in terms of salaries which for for our KGS wage employees that support our command in theater that's borne by the Koreans. So 85% of the salaries paid by the Republic of Korea we only bear the cost of 15%.
▶ 2:38:00And so the special measures agreement uh lowers the cost to include logistics sharing which supports and sustains our commands across you know from construction materials to energy and the like. Uh so the forces that are stationed are well positioned at less cost than others who are placed forward to Okonus.
▶ 2:38:20I thank you three very much for being here and uh I ran out of time so uh chairman I yield back.
▶ 2:38:26Gentleman yields back. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Virginia, Mr.
▶ 2:38:30Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses and to all of our military and veterans here. We really appreciate what you're doing to keep our country safe.
▶ 2:38:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just want to thank our witnesses and everybody for your service and thank you for being here. Uh, Admiral, you talked about using AI to make decisions and without getting into anything classified, what are some of the examples of things that you would use AI to make for?
▶ 2:38:52So at the tactical level, you know, the the application of AI for swarming drones, you know, the ability to optimize a force against another force at the tactical level is an AI is an AI force in employment uh down to make fewer weapons at mass be more effective against more targets.
▶ 2:39:11At the operational level, as you're linking joint function, command and control, intelligence, information, movement, maneuver, fires, sustainment, protection, and security, the ability to link those so that you are optimizing the force so that a fires decision also leads to the right kind of sustainment decision for reload.
▶ 2:39:32and making those processes that can sometimes be in a stovepipe as accurate as possible is also uh one of the ways in which we're employing AI and then at the strategic level to understand given uh the sensitive intelligence uh the behavior on the battlefield to understand better understand the adversar's strategy what their next moves are the second the third and the fourth move so at all three levels operational
▶ 2:40:03and strategic the employment of small AI and machine learning models at the tactical level. Uh LLMs and agentic models so that every decision is AI enhanced so that machines are making the kind of mathematical decisions that machines can make and humans are making the kind of decisions that we must
▶ 2:40:25be more accurate.
▶ 2:40:26Mr. know we've heard significant um autonomous and unmanned systems requirements for the Indo Pacific theater. What is your mechanism for ensuring that DO acquisition and policy strategies are actually aligned with those operational needs?
▶ 2:40:41Uh Congressman, uh as you know, uh reforming our acquisition system is a priority for Secretary Hexath. Uh this is an issue that uh policy works closely with our colleagues at acquisition and sustainment. uh and we'll continue to do so to make sure we have the best acquisition system possible.
▶ 2:40:59Admiral, there are significant unmanned surface vessels in the president's budget for next year. You've been a proponent of USVs for a while. Have you developed a concept of operations for use of those USVS and how you will integrate them in the man fleet
▶ 2:41:14We have, sir, and I'd like to give you more detail in a close session.
▶ 2:41:18Sounds good. And then uh Eva Papyro, during your appearance last year, we talked about how small module reactors might transform the ability to deliver energy to our forces and across your AO. How would you leverage a project pay scale deployable reactor in the first and second islands uh chains? Sir, I this availability of power super would would potentially supersede our need for fuel.
▶ 2:41:44And so having small ro modular reactors that can deliver uh reliable power uh in a distributed fashion, I think is just going to make us more resilient uh from a sustainment standpoint. Uh it's going to drive down our costs. It's going to drive down our our fuel costs. uh and then the cost of what it takes to gain the battle space to move that that fuel. And so, you know, I'm strongly supportive for these
▶ 2:42:11You know, as a Navy Seal veteran, I understand how effective a small agile unit can be. Do you have what you need in Indoaccom? And if not, what can we do to help you? Well, I I think um I'll say this is that um you know, I'm never satisfied with what we have because the the bill at the end is the loss of people, capability, money, and time and conflict.
▶ 2:42:33Uh but I will say that our 1313 or rather 1251 this year report uh require shows no unfunded requirements given the budget submission this year. And Admiral, could you describe how you view advanced and additive manufacturing being utilized through the PIP PIR?
▶ 2:42:55Uh if we have Piper is a you know a really important uh initiative for us to gain this resilience and additive manufacturing u this is advanced manufacturing better metallergy faster on demand and local uh and so this is the future is AI enabled advanced additive manufacturing uh there are numerous companies in the United States that are mastering this right now
▶ 2:43:26and getting the technical community to approve of the methods and to approve and advance these advanced parts forward is going to be critical for this.
▶ 2:43:36Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 2:43:37Jim yields back. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr.
▶ 2:43:41Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Um to all of you sitting up there, uh when you signed up to serve many of you a long time ago, I imagine your vision of service was not this sitting in a hearing room. It's nonetheless important. So thank you for doing this work. Um Dr. No, uh President Trump has talked a lot about his burgeoning relationship with China.
▶ 2:44:08Do you think that President Biden or President Trump is stronger on China?
▶ 2:44:15Congressman, I think President Trump's record on China speaks for itself. If you look at what the department of war has been doing for the past year plus uh in terms of our posture in terms of being ready to deter any adversary uh and if necessary responding to any crisis or contingency uh I think uh the record speaks for itself.
▶ 2:44:36So do you think it was a good idea for him to give in to China and sell them all the AI chips that not only the Biden administration but the first Trump administration had prevented them from Sir, on the issue of chips, uh, the Department of Commerce, uh, is in lead on that issue, and I
▶ 2:44:54I'm just asking you, do you have an
▶ 2:44:56I'd refer your questions regarding chips to the Commerce Department.
▶ 2:45:00I I can ask the Commerce Department. I'm asking your opinion. You're You are supposedly in charge of deterrence here. Do you think that was helpful for
▶ 2:45:09Congressman, we're doing everything we can to make sure our deterrence posture
▶ 2:45:13really because I think if you were stopping the chip sales, that would help. And I know there's a lot of bipartisan agreement on that. What about the fact that China is holding rare earth minerals over our head? They weren't doing that in the Biden administration. Do you think that's a helpful development?
▶ 2:45:29Uh Congressman, we have uh very important discussions with our allies and partners on the issue of critical minerals and rare earths. Uh I do think it's in our interest to uh have more secure supply chains for critical minerals and rare earth.
▶ 2:45:44Well, I would agree. I think China's put us in a bind here. What do you think about the fact that people refer to President Trump as the the taco president because of the way he gave in on tariffs? He put huge tariffs on China and then when he felt some pain at home, he gave in.
▶ 2:46:02Do you think that helps Congressman, I'll I'll I'll repeat what I said earlier, which is we are doing the Department of War is doing everything it can uh to make sure our deterrence posture is in the strongest place possible.
▶ 2:46:15So if you're doing everything you can, do you think that the national security strategy, the national defense strategy, do you think they do a sufficient job of deterring China from a military confrontation with Taiwan when conspic conspicuously conspicuously and clearly intentionally they entirely omit any mention of Taiwan in the document which is certainly not the case in the Biden administration.
▶ 2:46:42Uh sir, I will point out the arm sale that was announced a few months ago under this administration of 11 billion was the largest in history.
▶ 2:46:52You're right, it was announced. But what's what confidence can you give us that the president won't chicken out on that as well? because it seems like every step of the way he announces something that might go against China or deter China or put pressure on China and then he always chickens out and gives in to China.
▶ 2:47:15Sir, I think the the 11 billion in arm sales speaks for itself.
▶ 2:47:20No, no, no. It has not been sold. It's been proposed. What confidence do you have that that deal will actually go through? What can you what confidence can you give us?
▶ 2:47:31So, you're right. Uh, Taiwan also needs to do its part. The Taiwan LY is currently going through a process of passing uh what could potentially be a historic special defense.
▶ 2:47:40Why is the president so non-committal when it comes to defending Taiwan? He said, "I don't want to be put in that position." Whereas, President Biden was pretty explicit that we will defend Taiwan. That's probably the strongest way you can deter China from attacking Sir, I think strategic ambiguity is a policy that has worked for decades. Uh it preserves the president's decision space.
▶ 2:48:05I don't know how helpful it is to publicly uh state uh our intentions of what would happen in the event of a an a Chinese invasion. Uh again, strategic ambiguity has worked uh and I fully support it. Admiral Paparo, how long will it take to regain the force posture that we enjoyed in your Indo-Pacific AO prior to February 28th, 2026 when we've had to divert a lot of munitions to
▶ 2:48:35Sir, I'll answer that question in close session. Um, but um, you know, I'm really supportive of supercharging the defense industrial base and I'm also very supportive of non-traditional weapons sets that will continue to augment and affect the the changing character of warfare. I am too. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Chair, I recognize you from Texas, Mr. Gooden.
▶ 2:48:56Admiral Paparo, yesterday you testified that Bitcoin held potential as a tool for national security. Recent research from the Bitcoin Policy Institute estimates China has approximately 194,000 bitcoins while the United States has approximately 328,000 bitcoins. In this era of digital competition, would it be to our strategic advantage to maintain a lead in this regard as we do with other strategic resources like gold and oil?
▶ 2:49:25Sir, um, our interest in Bitcoin is as a tool of cryptography, a blockchain and reusable proof of work, as an additional tool to secure networks, and to project power. And so I am I think this protocol is here to stay.
▶ 2:49:42I think the computer science of it has direct implications for the projection of power not financial but from a computer science standpoints from the securing of networks and so I am supportive of those applications uh all instruments of national power are important but from the military application standpoint my interest in Bitcoin is as a computer science tool as projection of power
▶ 2:50:08I appreciate that I agree with you and I'd also like to hear your thoughts on monetary competition over the coming decades. What role does Bitcoin play in spreading digital property rights?
▶ 2:50:19Well, I I you know, people use Bitcoin today right now to protect their own intellectual property. Uh, and that's the reusable proofof work protocol that's combined with blockchain for accountability and cryptography for security. And so that's the role that I see for it. uh I see direct national security implications and then I'm supportive for anything that maintains our own uh dollar dominance worldwide.
▶ 2:50:48I appreciate that. Do you think we're adequ adequately prepared to counter China's strategic direction regarding digital assets?
▶ 2:50:55I think that uh our recent act with the Genius Act is a great step forward that moves us in that direction. And I'll lastly I'll ask you as we continue to craft the NDAA, what authorities and resources does Indopaccom need to address as respects the national security dimensions of digital assets? Presently, we're in experimentation. So I'll give you a deeper look into that. Presently, we have a node on the Bitcoin network right now. We're not mining Bitcoin.
▶ 2:51:24We're using it to monitor and we're going we're doing a number of operational tests to to secure and protect networks using the Bitcoin Bitcoin protocol.
▶ 2:51:34I appreciate that, Admiral. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:51:37Gentleman yields back. Chair, I recognize gentle lady from California, Miss Jacobs.
▶ 2:51:41Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Admiral Papile, General Brunson. Nice to see you both again. Um, I first want to ask um about civilian harm mitigation efforts. Over the past year, Secretary Hexath has made significant cuts to personnel and institutional roles responsible for civilian harm mitigation and response, saying there will be quote no stupid rules of engagement end quote. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:52:04No, how many Indopaccom personnel are currently assigned full-time to civilian harm mitigation issues and what are their specific roles and responsibilities within the command?
▶ 2:52:16Congresswoman, I'll I'll have to take that answer back. Okay, I'll look forward to getting an answer from you, Admiral Paparo. From a commander perspective, what operational and institutional risks does the loss of dedicated civilian harm expertise create for Indopaccom's overall preparedness? And specifically, how does that risk calculus change when you factor in the prospect of large-scale higho conflict in the Indo-Pacific region?
▶ 2:52:40Congresswoman, I'll say that um following the laws of armed conflict, [clears throat] you know, which are um ancient to a great extent and eternal and also guarantees uh that our wouldbe adversaries also follow the laws of armed of armed conflict is a matter of first principles for everyone in uniform including the civilians that work.
▶ 2:53:02I think uh the mitigation of civilian harm in conflict is a is a matter of first duty for everyone who works in the DoD and and we're always going to work really hard to ensure that our actions are right, just proportional, all in accordance with the laws of armed conflict.
▶ 2:53:23Yes. Well, and I very much appreciate that and and I know that that our folks in uniform take this very seriously. Um, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is in the absence of a sort of standing civilian harm capacity at the command, could you maybe walk me through like how would Indopacecom manage civilian harm mitigation assessment and response? Who would be responsible and what gaps would immediately become apparent if conflict were to begin in the Indoacific tomorrow?
▶ 2:53:53I'll say um commanders are always accountable account that commanders have the accountability the responsibility and the authority and I am accountable to the country to the committee uh for for all civilian harm mitigation for executing our combat operations within the laws of armed conflict. We use we use all of our targeting capability with our collateral damage estimates.
▶ 2:54:18We do so basic within our planning processes and then with our staff Judge advocate force which includes civilian and military. This is always front of mind.
▶ 2:54:29Yeah. Okay. I appreciate that. If you need anything from us to make sure that you have the actual capacity you need to to do this, please let us know because this is a priority for the committee and and has been in a bipartisan way.
▶ 2:54:40Thank you, Congressman.
▶ 2:54:40Yep. Um I I actually uh want to follow up on something um you said to my colleague u Mr. Magguire. Um, and some of the things you said in SAS yesterday around sort of the use of AI and and especially this kind of idea of the the tactical swarming and cheap expendable munitions deployed in mass with AI tools. Um, I want to ask in particular how that would work in the Taiwan Strait for instance.
▶ 2:55:08So it's one of the most heavily trafficked civilian maritime corridors, commercial shipping, fishing fleets, etc., etc. um and a strategy of mass AI enabled lowcost autonomous kill capability deployed across that space probably in the opening hours of a contingency likely.
▶ 2:55:25In your planning, how would you distinguish a PLA Navy amphib amphibious assault vessel from a Taiwanese civilian fishing vessel or a commercial container ship in the an AI enabled targeting system that would command this? The first and I think this is you know kind of the rules of unmanned and the rules of drone warfare is that we treat you is that you strive generally to not send a human being to do a dangerous thing that a machine can do.
▶ 2:55:52And number two, you never lose human accountability for taking lives in offensive operations or defensive operations. And I'm accountable. I'm the commander and I'm accountable for that. So having uh so having human oversight over this operation that's not necessarily a a person in the loop but is a person on the loop that can stop something. The assurance of packages before they go forward.
▶ 2:56:22Maritime domain awareness so that you so that you do know setting conditions ahead of the conflict with notices to mariners. These are all the the the wide range of measures that we take place to ensure uh that our actions are uh are completely in accordance with the laws of armed conflict and wise strategically.
▶ 2:56:41Well, thank you. Thank you both um for your service. U Mr. Chairman, I yield
▶ 2:56:46Gentle lady yields back. Chair, I recognize gentle from Texas, Mr.
▶ 2:56:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Admiral General, Mr. Secretary, thank you all and everyone else in the room here. Thank you for your service. I mean that wholeheartedly. Ultimate sacrifices that you and your family go through every single day. So God bless each and every one of you.
▶ 2:57:04Off-grid power generation. Admiral,
▶ 2:57:08can you can we do a little bit deeper dive as far as we can go inside this current setting? U I just [clears throat] want to make sure that in the NDAA or anything that's coming after that you are very well funded and that we're pushing the envelope hard enough for any kind of contingency that may populate. NSA a
▶ 2:57:31yes sir this um off-grid power generation this is the uh deployable generators all the things that deliver power so that we can execute all the joint functions uh critically important a part of our sustainment we've got to be thinking about all classes of supply uh and energy supply is critically important within that and uh I you know I think that this is inherent within our plans and so
▶ 2:57:55are we prepared to move in a shorter period of time, then are you in your I get I'm not going to ask if you have a warm and fuzzy that would be weird, but are you inside your comfort zone of what currently exists? And I would guess is the department moving
▶ 2:58:10I think f first is that uh I'm not going to put a troop in harm's way without all the things that they need to be able to live and succeed and survive and sustain. And so uh I'm very comfortable that uh within our plans our forces are well planned across all across all categories of supply and we've got that ability to sustain.
▶ 2:58:34Uh it's the resilience of it that I worry about and you know I think we have to be restless and always working towards good
▶ 2:58:42on you mentioned low I think you said lowost hypersonic capabilities.
▶ 2:58:47Yes sir. And I from in doing my homework and one of your major concerns is
▶ 2:58:54That's right.
▶ 2:58:55Uh are we in the right setting for I want to ask you this question again in in in the next um in the classified setting. But
▶ 2:59:04my I my one of my major concerns is our capability in the hypersonic space and speed ratios. Uh we're working with a number of um innovative companies that are have the capability to provide um lowcost seeker enabled hypersonic weapons at a fraction of the cost of some of the programs of record. And we've got to take risk on this. We got to take risk in putting them on contract so that they can scale.
▶ 2:59:33We have to take risk in this in giving them the authority to operate quickly. will be experimenting this summer with live fire on this.
▶ 2:59:41Okay. Um it this is more of a a request I think this kind of understanding of hypersonics and the importance of it is lost in translation inside this place. There's a few of us really paying attention to it.
▶ 2:59:59But as you as the subject matter expert, the one that's on top of this, if um and everyone else engage with the members kind of in a deeper dive of why we should be focusing on on this if you would please, sir.
▶ 3:00:14If your weapon travels at Mach one uh and you're actioning a moving target or you're actioning a a target that is fleeting, uh and that target is Mach 1, that sounds fast. Let's say that you're shooting that that that weapon at 1,200 miles. If you're moving at Mach one over the two hours, things on the battlefield there could change in the two hours that it takes a Mach 1 weapon to close 1200 miles.
▶ 3:00:41If your weapon is traveling at Mach 10, then that two hours is compressed to 12 minutes. And that's the difference. It's the ability to see, understand, decide, act, and hit your enemy before your enemy can hit you.
▶ 3:00:57I'm going to I'm going to borrow that one from you if you don't mind.
▶ 3:00:59You You've spent a life
▶ 3:01:01claim that one is my own if you're okay with that.
▶ 3:01:03You've spent a life shooting, moving, communicating. The faster you're moving, the faster you're shooting, and the faster your round hits home, the better. And speed, speed is the is the advantage of the 21st century. Speed and compute, speed in decision-m, speed of
▶ 3:01:23Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, I yield
▶ 3:01:25Chairman yields back. Chair, I recognize gentleman from New York, Mr. Ryan.
▶ 3:01:28Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for being here. Um, agree with the both what you said, Admiral Paparo, that the your your AO is quote the defining strategic theater. Um, what you said, Mr. No, in referencing the NDS, that we have to deter China through strength and that you said we're doing everything we can.
▶ 3:01:47My concern building on comments from from colleagues is that what's happening in the SenCom AO is a direct undercutting of that ability to show our strength and and then in effect deliver the the deterrence we all agree that we need.
▶ 3:02:01In the first four weeks of well now uh well primarily the first four weeks of the war we expended tremendous numbers of long range missiles a thousand plus JASMs which is 20% of our stockpile 850 plus tomahawks more than 30% of our stockpile as many in the room know we produce 80 tomahawks a year that's 10 years worth of of at our current rate of production stockpile used in four weeks we know for air defense munitions half of both
▶ 3:02:31our THAAD and Patriot interceptors expended in that time period. As you've briefed, Admiral, these are critical munitions on day one of potential contingencies in your AO and they were low even before the uh operation epic fury in 2025. In fact, the administration said it couldn't provide Ukraine with tomahawks because they were needed rightly in Indoaccom.
▶ 3:02:54And then in 2024, Admiral, you talked about at that moment your dissatisfaction with magazine depth, which to the chair's credit, everybody in this room, we've been working to address. And I don't I'm not dismissing that, but the reality of where we are now is is important. Um that builds on the fact that beyond the munitions, Iranian missile and drone strikes have have hit US bases across the Middle East uh and shown a lot of uh capability that you know we knew was coming but even more uh threat from that.
▶ 3:03:24And then of course as other colleagues have mentioned the readiness impacts of um using over 40% of our deployed Navy ships in the war after them just coming from the Western Hemisphere for Venezuela. So I along with many others are worried about one the the position it puts us in and and you ultimately and your your folks in Indopacecom two what message it sends to China as other colleagues have said and ultimately what it means for our ability to deter and if necessary defeat uh action. So, assistant secretary, no.
▶ 3:03:55Looking at all this munitions burn rate, readiness strain, base vulnerability, how can you say, as you just said, we're doing everything we can in the Department of War to deter uh Congressman, as Secretary Hexath has said, uh the department has sufficient munitions to address to address any task uh at hand, uh including uh those that may arise uh in the Indopaccom uh AO.
▶ 3:04:24So we will continue to work closely with Admiral Paparo and the entire Indopaccom team to make sure we're posit
▶ 3:04:30and you can deliver that with a straight face that there's been you really honestly believe that I would point folks to independent public source open source research from CSIS other leading think tanks nonpartisan highly trusted these these impacts are real and if we don't acknowledge that and be honest about it how can we say we're doing right by our our folks Admiral Paparo I know this is uncomfortable.
▶ 3:04:55I get it and I I want to hear in the classified setting, but I think the American people deserve to understand that decisions that are made, by the way, with no input from Congress have real immediate operational impacts. Congressman, I'd say the way ahead is is tripling, quadrupling the production rate of these munitions. And then number two, finding suitable innovative non-traditional substitutes for them which in some cases with the right innovation can exceed that capability.
▶ 3:05:24And I agree and and we are all working on that in good faith, but that doesn't take away from the immediate impacts and you know the timelines that you've briefed to us and that others have put out there that we are quickly coming upon that and we just mathematically are concerned about that. And to be clear, I'm I am rooting for us and we are are all rooting for us, but solving this problem starts with an honest reckoning. General, do you want to add anything on that?
▶ 3:05:50What what I would add um Congressman would be simply this that you know the state of our stores prior to any of this happening. Um you understand the PDs that have been given to us to support operations globally um before this and that uh we've really got to get to the beginning of this which is what do we need? How is industry helping us get there? And then look for some of these other creative avenues to pursue to solve some of our problems.
▶ 3:06:19Uh Admiral Paparo has talked at length adnauseium almost about some of these cheaper alternatives that we have. We need to run full force at some of those things and solve our own problems as opposed to going back to getting old dodics, old forms of engagement and really start to work to solve our problems. Sir
▶ 3:06:39agree. Thank you and I yield back. Mr. All right. We are now this is we were going to end at that but uh we're going to uh go to Mr.
▶ 3:07:06Cuda for questions and then when we after that we will adjourn the public hearing. We'll go to the classified hearings and we will start back on the itinerary of members as as if we stayed in public session. So those members who are up next starting with Mr. Fallon will be recognized in the classified session before we go back to members who have already had a chance to ask questions.
▶ 3:07:29So those staff members back in their offices, if you're waiting for your member to get the questions, make sure they understand that they're going to be first up when we get into classified session. With that, the gentle lady from Hawaii, Mr. Cuda, is recognized for five minutes.
▶ 3:07:43Thank you very much, M. Mr. Chair. Admiral Paparo, as you know, this morning's headlines in the advertiser read, "Pacific Chief hopes for consensus on Hawaii land leases." Um, a very general question. Do you think that we can reach any kind of consensus with the threat of condemnation hanging on in the
▶ 3:08:03Aloha, Congresswoman.
▶ 3:08:04I am confident that uh we together can find a solution. I think uh all parties understand the uh critical status of Pakaloa training area as well as all the other training lands and important land issues. And uh I I you know I am confident that we can find a solution that's acceptable. I know you're confident and I know you're committed, but I also know you're not the key one negotiating right now.
▶ 3:08:29So, my basic question is, can there be any kind of consensus reach if condemnation continues to be the threat? In my humble opinion, this is coercion. This is not consensus that we're talking about a simple yes or no. Shouldn't condemnation be taken off the table in order for us to have a real solid negotiation as to these lease lands? I you know I I think finding a consensus solution is is important and it's above my pay grade. Uh these these um these these terms
▶ 3:08:59understand but I think you'll agree from
▶ 3:09:01our relationships within Hawaii are really critical for the operation of the joint force and it's our home.
▶ 3:09:06Absolutely. I think the only person who's come before me um right here to be able to talk about Pakoy, you're the only one who actually lives in Hawaii. So you know exactly what's at stakes. You know exactly what we mean. The lands in question, let's take it a slightly different direction, but hopefully you can help me. The lands in question are former crown lands, public trust lands that the admissions act dedicated to the benefit of Native Hawaiians. These are seated lands. They're held in trust.
▶ 3:09:32Knowing this, who needs to be at that negotiation table in order for us to seek this consensus, this positive resolution that you'd like to see?
▶ 3:09:41Understood. uh members of the community and and my own uh dedication to the Native Hawaiian community. Uh and so all in all all parties with a stake uh should be a part of the process.
▶ 3:09:54Hawaiians have been at the table. Do you think their voices, their perspectives, their historical trauma, has that been at the table? Has that been part of the
▶ 3:10:05I know that US Army Pacific uh is very respectful of those traditions.
▶ 3:10:10Very respectful. Have they been at the
▶ 3:10:13Whose party to negoti negotiations? Have Native Hawaiians their voice entities uh including but not limited to the Office of Hawaiian Affair that has a constitutional responsibility to these lands and to their beneficiaries? Have they been at the table? Should they be at the table?
▶ 3:10:30I'm sorry. I'm I'm not a party to the negotiation as you well know. But knowing what you know living in Hawaii, knowing the importance of making sure people are not just present, but they're engaged, their perspectives are actually heard and included. Do you feel from everything you've seen so far, and most of that is just what we read in the newspaper, do you feel Native Hawaiian voices, their shared history, their connection to the Aina, do you think that that has been a part of anything we've seen so far in relation to these
▶ 3:10:56I think we can work harder at it.
▶ 3:10:58Absolutely. I think we have to do a lot better. Thank you.
▶ 3:11:00Simpler question. PTA is stolen land. Can we agree on that? I I mean, even if we take a look at the area in question for the lease, the vast majority of the land being bombed right now was taken as a result of the illegal overthrow and the admissions act. Can we agree that we are talking about right now stolen land? Yes or no?
▶ 3:11:24Are you asking me? I'm not going to answer that.
▶ 3:11:29I That's beyond my remit. So, do you think we paid anything for over twothirds of the land that you're bombing right now at PTA? How much do we pay for that? Nothing. And for the small portion that we are engaging with now that I want to remove the threat of condemnation for that I would like to see a real robust renegotiation with real advocates, real beneficiaries sitting at the table, their rights, their perspectives, their views,
▶ 3:11:59their shared and part of an agreement. Do you not think that they should be at the table given that vast majority of PTA poakaloa training era is stolen land? The rest of it you paid a dollar over the last 65 years. Should they not be at the table?
▶ 3:12:23I think I think it's important that we reach a consensus approach.
▶ 3:12:26can we disagree that Native Hawaiians were never there and never asked in the first place whether or not they felt okay giving their crown lands to the federal government to the United States to be bombed by the military? Can we agree that Native Hawaiians never gave their consent? They never gave up their authority, their sovereignty, their claims to these lands.
▶ 3:12:46Gentle lady's time's expired. I appreciate Mr. accommodating that audible call.
▶ 3:12:51Uh this concludes the open portion of our hearing. Uh we are going to adjourn now to reconvene at 110 in room 2212.