▶ 0:15:18Will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on explorer america. 250. Enhancing accessibility at our national parks and public lands under committee rule four f. Any oral opening statements are at. Our hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member.
▶ 0:15:40I therefore ask unanimous consent that all other members opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in accordance with committee. Rule three parent. Oh, without objection, so ordered. I'll now recognize myself for an opening statement. Today we will have an important discussion on a topic that is at the core of the subcommittee's mission expanding access to our federal lands.
▶ 0:16:04As we approach america's 250th birthday, visitation to our public lands is expected to increase. And with it, so will the demand for accessible recreation opportunities. Public lands are central to how americans experience our country's history and heritage, and ensuring these lands are accessible is not just an abstract policy objective. This is about real access on the ground for real people. This work is particularly important for our veterans.
▶ 0:16:33Many service members return home with service related disabilities and face challenges during the transition back to civilian life. Access to outdoor recreation can support physical rehabilitation, reduce stress, and improve mental and emotional well-being. Expanding accessible recreation opportunities is one way to ensure that those who have served our country are able to benefit from the lands they helped protect.
▶ 0:16:59Thanks to the explore act, we have a framework in place in early example that demonstrates what works. Now the focus must be on execution. That means moving from assessments to implementation, from pilot programs to scalable models, and from isolated projects to consistent access across our federal lands. A critical component of the explorer act's success will be leveraging public private partnerships.
▶ 0:17:27In fact, one of the important takeaways from the explore act implementation work already underway is the role of partnerships and delivering results across the country. Effective accessibility improvements are being driven through collaboration with nonprofit organizations, local disability groups, and private partners at mount rainier national park in washington.
▶ 0:17:51Philanthropic donations from the park's local friends group are supporting the collection of detailed trail condition data using special assessment tools. That data is then used to inform both infrastructure improvements and the information provided to visitors in colorado.
▶ 0:18:08The bureau of land management is partnering with the state non-profits and outfitters and guides to support trail rehabilitation, expand adaptive programing and create new hunting, fishing and camping opportunities for individuals with disabilities. These efforts show that accessibility improvements can be delivered more effectively and efficiently.
▶ 0:18:33When agencies work with partners who bring additional resources, expertise, and community input. This is not incidental. It is central to how the explorer act was designed to function and reflects the importance of placing visitors, in this case, individuals with disabilities at the forefront of implementation. Thankfully, under the leadership of secretaries burgum and rollins, the trump administration has already begun to seriously and aggressively implement this law.
▶ 0:19:04The department of the interior has worked with a broad coalition of organizations across dozens of states to identify dozens of states to identify high priority accessibility projects, including several shovel ready projects for near term implementation. The forest service has met its statutory deadline to identify accessible trails and recreation opportunities across all regions, and has begun integrating accessibility into broader recreation planning.
▶ 0:19:35These are important first steps. However, the public will not measure success based on assessments or coordination alone. Success will be measured by whether access is expanding, trails are improved, facilities are usable, and information is clear. All americans deserve to confidently access and enjoy their public lands.
▶ 0:19:56We also know that barriers still remain that must be addressed, outdated and inconsistent federal definitions continue to limit the use of assistive technologies in certain areas, particularly in wilderness settings. Over the past several decades, technology has advanced significantly, creating a wide range of adaptive equipment that allows more users to access the full splendor of our outdoors.
▶ 0:20:26However, the outdated, antiquated definition of wheelchair used under the wilderness act limits wheelchairs to devices that are suitable for use in an indoor pedestrian area. This definition is not only more limited than the broader definition used under the americans with disabilities act. It simply does not reflect the new reality of 21st century adaptive equipment. Technology has evolved and federal regulations need to evolve with it.
▶ 0:20:56If we don't, then we're not truly serious about ensuring individuals with disabilities have full access to all of our public lands, including wilderness areas. Access is not one size fits all. It requires a range of tools, including infrastructure, information and technology, that allow people to explore our national parks and public lands.
▶ 0:21:16Before I yield back, I'd like to ask unanimous consent to submit a letter into the record from the motorcycle industry council, the specialty vehicle institute of america, and the recreational off-highway vehicle association, which discusses the importance of off highway vehicle recreation to individuals with disabilities, particularly our nation's veterans.
▶ 0:21:42This letter states, in part allowing for the responsible use of ohvs on trails on public lands will increase opportunities for physically challenged individuals to get outdoors and enjoy our public lands. Implementation of the explore act should focus on, in part on improving these opportunities with appropriate infrastructure. Without objection, so ordered. I'd like to thank each of our witnesses for taking time out of your schedules to join us and share your expertise at this hearing.
▶ 0:22:12We look forward to hearing from each of you today. With that, I yield back and will now recognize the ranking member, um, miss dexter from oregon, for an opening statement. >> thank you, chairman tiffany, and thank you to our witnesses for making the trip to join us today. As an oregonian, I know what public lands and outdoor access mean to a community.
▶ 0:22:33And in my district and across our state, families hike the timberline trail, fish the columbia river camp in the gorge and find solace in the mountains and forests that make oregon home. That's why the explore act matters. It took years of collaboration between this committee, the outdoor recreation committee, community user groups, businesses, hunters and anglers, and folks all over the country who share a love for our public lands and waters.
▶ 0:22:59It was also a meaningful bipartisan achievement that showed congress can still come together to solve problems. The explorer act is a landmark legislation that expands access to the outdoors and helps ensure that when we say public lands, we really mean public. Today's hearing focuses on title two of the explore act, which works to increase meaningful access to our recreation opportunities for everyone.
▶ 0:23:23Those with disabilities, active duty military service members, veterans and their families and youth. This title was made possible by exemplary work on both sides of the aisle, including the subcommittee's very own representative, stansbury's, promoting accessibility on federal lands act. This provision directed federal land management agencies to inventory recreation opportunities to increase accessible options for all americans.
▶ 0:23:49Representative levin's grow act helped create a pilot program at the department of the interior to hire more veterans in meaningful outdoor recreation jobs and the reauthorization. Reauthorization of every kid outdoors allowed us to continue giving fourth graders across the country free access to our national parks and public lands. We are proud of all these contributions, but our job does not end when a bill becomes law.
▶ 0:24:16Our responsibility is to make sure the law is implemented and that the promises we made to the american people become real. And that is where I'm concerned. I know agency staff want to deliver on the goals and ambitions set by congress. Unfortunately, president trump is creating as much chaos in two tumult at home as he is all over the world, with interventionist wars of choice and vindictive tariff regimes.
▶ 0:24:41The national park service has already lost a quarter of its permanent staff, and the proposed forest service reorganization has created immense confusion and distress in my district. The president doesn't seem to be done attacking our parks and public lands. The latest budget request would cut hundreds of millions of funding from land management agencies, including 2000 more employees from the national park system. This is a recipe for failure.
▶ 0:25:10If our parks and public lands are understaffed and underfunded, they will not have the capability to implement these accessibility provisions, no matter what the law says. And it gets even worse from there. The committee has heard from several stakeholders that the trump administration is refusing to release funding for the outdoor recreation legacy partnership, another important priority that promotes access to outdoor recreation. Despite congress approving appropriations for the last two fiscal years.
▶ 0:25:40So this hearing comes at exactly the right moment. We need answers about implementation of the explore act, about title two accessibility priorities, and about whether congress is intent is being honored. Unfortunately, we find ourselves in a difficult position today because there isn't a single representative from the department of the interior or the us forest service here to answer questions.
▶ 0:26:05While we appreciate the submission of statements for the record, those documents are simply no substitute for a live exchange and a congressional hearing where we are trying to ensure these programs are actually delivering for the american people. That said, I again want to sincerely thank our witnesses for who are appearing before us today. We truly appreciate your dedication and expertise, and I look forward to your testimony as we navigate these important public lands issues. Thank you. And I yield back.
▶ 0:26:34>> the ranking member, dexter yields, and I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. westerman, for his statement. >> well, good morning everyone, and thank you, chairman tiffany, for holding this, what I call a very important hearing today on title two of the explore act, which expands access for individuals, for our military service members, for veterans, and for gold star families. This is an issue that's been near and dear to my heart. As chairman of the committee.
▶ 0:27:01In 2022, we worked with a bipartisan group of members on the veterans in parks or the vip act, which codified free lifetime passes for our veterans and gold star family members. Then, building on that success, we worked in, uh, on the bipartisan military and veterans in parks act or the mvp act.
▶ 0:27:21We got some really good acronyms going on here to describe our veterans, uh, which eventually became the basis of title two of the explore act, uh, which is another good acronym. The motivation behind both of these efforts is straightforward. Uh, and that is that absolutely nothing should stand in the way of our brave veterans accessing the very public lands. They put their lives on the line to defend.
▶ 0:27:46This year, millions of americans will flock to our national parks and public lands to celebrate our semiquincentennial. For some, this will mean visiting hallowed battlegrounds to remember the sacrifices that allowed our great nation to even exist in the first place. For others, it will mean camping with their families under the stars in the yosemite valley or hiking in the grand canyon.
▶ 0:28:08For me and my family, it will mean visiting hot springs national park and hopefully floating on the buffalo national river, the nation's first wild and scenic river. And I'll put a plug in for my hometown of hot springs, which was the first federal land ever set aside by the federal government in reserve long before anybody had ever heard of yellowstone. Um.
▶ 0:28:28These are experiences that everybody should be able to enjoy, and they should be able to enjoy that regardless of physical ability. That's what makes title two of the explorer so important. Those experiences that I described aren't possible when we don't thoughtfully design accessible recreation infrastructure.
▶ 0:28:53Families can enjoy a camping experience in yosemite if there aren't accessible bathrooms or parking lots connected to that opportunity. Nor can they plan a hike in the grand canyon if they don't have access to objective trail information. One of the most important points in this discussion is that improving accessibility doesn't mean overbuilding, or fundamentally changing the character of our public lands. In many cases, it's quite the opposite.
▶ 0:29:18Too often people hear accessibility and they think that that only means paving trails or creating boardwalks and nature. This couldn't be further from the truth. The demand for accessible recreation opportunities is clear, just as it's clear that folks with disabilities want those opportunities to feel like genuine backcountry experiences they can share with their entire families. Creating accessible recreation is about making smart, targeted modifications that improve access while maintaining the natural experience.
▶ 0:29:47It can be as simple as regrading a section of trail, improving the surface, adjusting the slope, or rerouting around an obstacle. These are not large scale changes, but they can make a meaningful difference in who is able to use that trail. Uh. Take for example, the picture behind me, uh, from rocky mountain national park. On one side, you have a trail with stairs that is impassable for people who use wheelchairs.
▶ 0:30:12On the other side of the picture, the trail that has been re-engineered to provide a more gradual and accessible slope. That change does not take away from the experience. It improves it. And not just for people with disabilities, but also for the elderly. For new moms with strollers or anybody with limited mobility. In other words, when we design trails and recreation infrastructure more thoughtfully, we improve the experience for everyone involved.
▶ 0:30:39At hot springs national park, as I said in my hometown, um, one priority is the explorer project that has been identified as improving access to the bathhouses through features like lifts, along with expanded, accessible hiking opportunities. These are not large scale redesigns, but practical improvements that will allow more people to participate in and enjoy the experience. Uh, and this is what the explorer act is all about.
▶ 0:31:08By making a minor modification that most visitors would never even notice, like changing stairs to a slope, we have opened up a whole new experience to the millions of americans who live with a disability. If we make enough of these small, thoughtful improvements, we can open up opportunities that were previously out of reach all across the country. But access is not just about whether a trail like this exists in the first place.
▶ 0:31:32That doesn't matter if somebody with a disability doesn't know how or doesn't know about this trail, or can't get information about trail conditions before they arrive. Title two of the explorer act recognizes that reality. It provides a framework for agencies to identify where these types of improvements can be made, to increase the information available to the public, and to develop new opportunities that expand access across public lands.
▶ 0:31:57It also recognizes the importance of partnerships and delivering these improvements, and encourages agencies to work with local communities and outside organizations to get the work done. As chairman tiffany noted, early implementation efforts are underway. The challenge now is to build on that progress and ensure that these efforts translate into consistent on the ground improvements. We know this will work.
▶ 0:32:18Uh, and we know that this work will take resources, which is why our secured report language in last year's appropriations bill directing the agency to prioritize funding on explore implementation specifically focused on title two. Also plan to request similar language in this year, uh appropriations, and would welcome any of my colleagues to join me in making a bipartisan request.
▶ 0:32:41We've also been working on legislation to reauthorize the great american outdoors act, and specifically allow that funding to be used for accessibility projects authorized under title two of explorer. This is important because when we had our oversight field hearing on gao in the grand tetons national park last year, we visited two trailheads, one that had been eligible for funding and one that had not. I'm pleased that one of our witnesses, Mr.
▶ 0:33:08Joe stone, is joining us today as he led a bipartisan group of members after our field hearing on a hike to taggart lake trail so we could see firsthand the kind of accessibility improvements that inspired the explore act. What we learned on that hike was that this important work wasn't classified as deferred maintenance by the national park service, so couldn't receive gao money.
▶ 0:33:31When we think about the next iteration of the great american outdoors act, this is exactly the type of investments we should be making into our national parks, investments that improve access and outdoor recreation opportunities. And I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle and on the other side of the capitol to make that vision a reality and send this bill to the president's desk. In celebration of american's 250th birthday.
▶ 0:33:58Before I yield back, I'd like to extend a special thank you to quinn, brit jo's business partner at dovetail consulting and a former accessibility official at the department of the interior. Quinn was instrumental in crafting the title two of the explore act, and this conversation today would not have been possible without her hard work and expertise. Oh, Mr. chairman, thank you for your generosity, and I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. I was just commenting to the ranking minority member.
▶ 0:34:27We are rather wordy on our side this morning. Me included. I'm. >> it's a great issue that needs to be talked about more. It's it's exciting what we can do here. So thank you again for the. For sure. >> thank you for your opening statement, chairman. And now we're going to go to our first and only panel today. I want to remind our witnesses that under committee rules, you must limit your oral statement to five minutes, but your entire statement will appear in the hearing record.
▶ 0:34:55To begin your testimony, please press the on button on the microphone. We use timing lights when you begin. The light will turn green. At the end of five minutes the light will turn red and I will ask you to please complete your statement. First, I would like to introduce Mr. joe stone, co-owner of dovetail trail consulting. Mr. stone, you are recognized for five minutes. Welcome. >> chairman. Members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here.
▶ 0:35:24My name is joe stone. I'm a co-owner of dovetail trail consulting and I'm also a c7 quadriplegic. I've been using a wheelchair for the past 15 years, and the first few years I was trying to figure out what was possible in the outdoors, and I was constantly met with barriers that forced me to turn around and head back to the car and give up for the day. But I was stubborn enough to keep trying. Over time, I found my way back into the outdoors.
▶ 0:35:52Although life as a wheelchair user in the outdoors was limited, I did find some success. And as I shared those experiences, more people with disabilities began reaching out, asking how and where they could go. Rediscovering the outdoors changed my life. I went from believing I would spend the rest of my life in a nursing home, fully dependent on others, to building a life filled with adventure, community, and purpose.
▶ 0:36:17The journey set me on a path to creating better access for people with disabilities on our public lands. I want to share a few stories. Two friends of mine, travis mills and taylor morris, are two of only five surviving quadruple amputees from the iraq war. They came to visit grand teton national park with their families. They took the boat across jenny lake to hike to hidden falls. An easy hike for most.
▶ 0:36:42But when they got off the boat, they were met with a series of steps beginning at the dock and hundreds more to the falls. There was no information available ahead of time to tell them what they were walking into, so they were left sitting on the dock while their families went up to hidden falls without them. Both travis and taylor gave their lives in service to a country they love. Should they not be able to access the lands they sacrificed so much to protect?
▶ 0:37:10A couple weeks later, I was back at that same place. I met a mom sitting on a dock, same dock with her daughter who had a disability. It was the same situation. Their family had gone up to hidden falls and they were left behind. She watched as I used adaptive equipment to go to get over those barriers, and it gave her hope for her daughter's future. But that equipment can cost over $20,000 and is not accessible to most families.
▶ 0:37:36So even in that moment of hope, she still saw a world where her daughter could not fully participate. I've seen another version of this. A couple came to grand teton national park to go for a hike. One was a wheelchair user. They were told the trail would be mostly accessible. They made their way out, committed to the experience, and then hit a series of steps in narrow sections that they could not get through. They were stuck there and had to be rescued.
▶ 0:38:04Better information about that trail could have prevented that. All three of these situations show the same thing. People with disabilities are not avoiding the outdoors. They are actively seeking it out. But too often they are met with barriers instead of clarity. That is the gap at dovetail. This is exactly the work I do.
▶ 0:38:26We partner with land managers like grand teton national park and nonprofits like the grand teton national park foundation to assess trails, collect objective data, and look at the full entry to exit experience from the parking lot to the trail itself. Can someone with a disability fully participate? What I constantly find is this when you improve access, you improve the experience for almost everyone. This is why I'm encouraged by the explore act.
▶ 0:38:53But policy alone does not change what happens on the ground. If we want to succeed, if we want it to succeed, we need it. We need real funding and the right people at the table, meaning people with disabilities. Agencies are already stretched thin. Without dedicated funding. This work gets delayed and delay means more continued exclusion. This work is not just for people with disabilities. It's for their friends, their families and entire communities.
▶ 0:39:22The architectural barriers act of 1968, section 504 of the rehabilitation act of 1973, and the americans with disabilities act of 1990 were created to ensure access and inclusion. But on our public lands, we have not seen the funding or intent needed to carry out those laws into the outdoor experience. This is where the explorer act comes in.
▶ 0:39:47It has the potential to finally fill that gap, to bring these civil rights laws into our public lands. So my ask is simple. Fund it. If we do that, we will not just expand access. We will make our public lands work better for everyone. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. stone. I will now recognize Mr. mike passo, executive director at american trails. Mr.
▶ 0:40:13Passo resides in my congressional district, and it's great to have you out here in washington, D.C. Mr. passo, and we look forward to your testimony. You have five minutes. >> great. Thanks. It's good to see you again. Chairman wasserman, chairman tiffany, ranking member dexter, um, and all the members of the subcommittee, thank you for the time and space to to listen to what this great panel has to say.
▶ 0:40:43Uh, my name is mike passo and I'm the executive director of american trails, and I'm also a member of the trails accessibility coalition, um, which has been brought together to help you and help the, um, help our land managers implement the explore act, especially title two.
▶ 0:41:04The explore act is one of the most important opportunities we have to expand access to public lands in a generation, but without staffing and funding it, it risks becoming an unfunded mandate and and a transform instead of a transformative solution.
▶ 0:41:25Back in 1991, at the age of 20, uh, I was in a mountain biking accident in the sequoia national forest in northern wisconsin in a place that I love the most, doing the thing that I love the most on a trail that I love the most. I flipped over my handlebars and broke my back. Um, and I was instantly paralyzed.
▶ 0:41:48And while I was recovering in the hospital, I had a small epiphany or a large epiphany to me, but small probably to the rest of the world. I suddenly realized that I wasn't thinking about the surgery that was coming up. I wasn't thinking about being able to walk or go to the bathroom. I was thinking about how the heck was I going to go mountain biking again.
▶ 0:42:13That's primarily what what was on my mind to the to the extent that I was jotting down designs for chairs while I was sitting in that hospital bed. And that's when it occurred to me that people define themselves by how they recreate. It's it's right there in the word recreate. People recreate themselves when they do their outdoor recreation activities. And I think that's key.
▶ 0:42:39It really strikes at the core of how people view themselves and how they interact with their own world and how they define themselves. And if you take that away for any reason, um, it'll cause a visceral reaction. As you've probably experienced. Um, people recreate themselves through recreational activities and recreation cannot happen without trails, in my opinion.
▶ 0:43:10I'm a little biased because I run a company called american trails, but trails are fundamental to recreation, and trails just can't exist without people to maintain them and build them. Organizations like american trails can bring an army of folks willing to help maintain trails on public lands, but it doesn't work if there's nobody there for them to work with.
▶ 0:43:36Uh, the single greatest barrier, in my opinion right now is not policy. It's capacity, um, across federal land management agencies, we are seeing substantial reductions in workforce capacity. These issues are not abstract. They're directly affecting the ability to carry out projects, maintain trails, and support partnerships that make access possible.
▶ 0:44:00At american trails, we administer, for example, a grant program that leverages nonprofit expertise and volunteers to address deferred maintenance on forest service lands. These projects consistently deliver very strong returns on investment, like 8 to 1. Um, yet today, several of the projects that we have the funding for and have have, are raring to go to start.
▶ 0:44:27They simply can't move forward because their, their forest service contacts are gone. Um, and that's happening in small pockets all throughout the federal lands at, at the same time, agencies are facing proposed budget reductions to the very programs that support recreation, maintenance and accessibility. This creates a fundamental challenge.
▶ 0:44:54We cannot expand access while reducing the staff and reducing the resources required to deliver it. Those goals are fundamentally at odds. The explore act also recognizes that accessibility is not only about building new infrastructure, it's about providing better information.
▶ 0:45:15As we've heard for many people, especially those with disabilities, knowing what to expect on a trail is the key to participation. And finally, I think accessibility should not be viewed as a as a, as a niche issue. It's a universal one. It affects families, older adults, veterans, anyone who wants to enjoy the outdoors. Um, confidently. Accessibility is not about a small group of users. It's about all of us.
▶ 0:45:44At some point we will all experience this almost regardless of our experience. Um, I've seen many proposed amendments to this law, and I think a lot of them are have have a lot of value. So I think they should be considered. Um, but at its core, this is about who our public lands are for and ensuring that every american sees themselves in the answer.
▶ 0:46:09Thank you for your time and your commitment to ensuring the americans can access all our public lands. >> yeah. Thank you, Mr. pastel. I now recognize miss julie howell, associate legislative director for government relations at paralyzed veterans of america. Miss howell, welcome. And you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, sir.
▶ 0:46:31>> chairman wasserman, chairman tiffany, ranking member dexter and members of the committee paralyzed veterans of america appreciates the opportunity to testify today on behalf of our members, veterans who have incurred spinal cord injury or disorder or cid for 80 years. Disability access has been central to pva's mission. The fight for accessibility is long and storied, fraught with exploitation and avoidance.
▶ 0:46:53But over the years, we've seen progress through the passage of the architectural barriers act, the rehabilitation act, and the passage of the americans with disabilities act, or the ada. Pva has advocated for each of these advancements, and we're proud to testify today on the disability provisions included within the explore act, which seeks to improve access to federal lands and parks for disabled veterans.
▶ 0:47:15My oral remarks will focus on how pva supports catastrophically disabled veterans through sports and recreation opportunities, and how congress can ensure the intended goals of the explore act are fully realized, particularly the military and veterans and faq section. Pva sports and recreation program offers more than 60 adaptive sporting and recreation opportunities across the country.
▶ 0:47:37Recently, we've developed our own outdoor recreation experience, which aims to provide an enriching and supportive environment for pva members to engage in outdoor activities that foster physical and mental well-being. Our first event was last year in jackson hole, wyoming, where ten pva members visited grand teton national parks and the surrounding areas to experience hiking, adaptive biking and other activities.
▶ 0:48:00Future events will include adaptive mountain biking, water sports like whitewater rafting, and winter sports such as adaptive skiing. These events go beyond just recreation. They're crucial components of healing, rehabilitation and community reintegration. Pva believes that the accessibility provisions within the explore act will be critical in increasing access to federal lands and parks for people with mobility impairments.
▶ 0:48:25Reducing accessibility barriers and outdoor spaces will have a significant impact on disabled veterans. However, enforcement of disability access requirements will be critical in ensuring the successful implementation of this bill. The minimum accessibility standards already established in law are still not uniformly implemented on federal lands. Pva has concerns that with constrained budgets and reduced staffing, fully implementing these accessibility provisions might be delayed.
▶ 0:48:52Funding for the national park system has remained flat over multiple administrations, according to a congressional research service report published in 2024. However, recent budget proposals would drastically cut funding for federal land management agencies, which may make it even more difficult to carry out the accessibility provisions within the explore act. Now, I'd like to share some of our thoughts on the military and veterans and park section of the bill.
▶ 0:49:17Pva sees three themes that will be critical in the effective implementation of the explore act, ensuring a proper foundation and appropriate resources, partnerships and programing, and sustainability and evaluation for the explore act. To be successful, congress must prioritize securing sufficient and sustained funding across federal agencies. Impacted agencies will have to work together to develop accessible infrastructure, including adaptive equipment and facilities for disabled veterans and all visitors.
▶ 0:49:49Partnerships and programing will be critical for success, which means there must be meaningful collaborations with veteran organizations, private outdoor recreation companies, as well as establishing relationships with state and local governments that respect military culture and values. Programing must include professional staff equipped with cultural competency, peer to peer veteran support systems and adaptive offerings for various abilities and all comfort levels.
▶ 0:50:13Finally, long term success for this section hinges on implementing robust tracking systems systems to measure participation rates, health outcomes, and programing effectiveness. Achievement here should be measured by increasing veteran participation in outdoor recreation opportunities and the evolution of veterans needs and evidence based practices.
▶ 0:50:34There will be challenges in accomplishing the loftier goals of the explore act, but pva is eager to partner with the committee and any federal partner to make as much progress as we can in increasing outdoor recreation opportunities for catastrophically disabled veterans. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today, and I'm happy to answer any of your questions. >> thank you, miss howell. Finally, I'd now like to recognize miss maureen elias, deputy director of government affairs for veterans at the wounded warrior project. Miss elias, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:51:06>> thank you, chairman wasserman, chairman tiffany, and ranking member dexter and members of the subcommittee. Thank you today for the opportunity to appear before you. I am marine elias, a us army veteran, and I'm here on behalf of wounded warrior project. We appreciate the subcommittee's leadership on the explore act and the opportunity to share our perspectives on how thoughtful implementation can improve access to outdoor recreation for veterans, service members and their families.
▶ 0:51:31For more than 23 years, wounded warrior project has supported veterans and their families as they heal from the visible and invisible wounds of military service. We work alongside congress, community partners, and other veteran serving organizations to help warriors reconnect to themselves, to their communities, and find a renewed sense of purpose. An outdoor recreation plays a meaningful role in that work.
▶ 0:51:54Across our programs, we consistently see that time spent outdoors supports physical health, mental health, and social connection, whether that be through adaptive sports, group challenges or just quiet time in nature. Access to outdoor experiences helps veterans rebuild confidence, manage stress, and reconnect with others. But access is not just about whether land is open or not. It's about whether veterans can safely and confidently use those spaces on their own.
▶ 0:52:20This is particularly important for post nine over 11 veterans, many of whom manage service connected conditions that affect wayfinding, attention and risk perception in outdoor environments. Unclear signage or limited pre-visit information can undermine confidence and independence.
▶ 0:52:37The explore act's focus on improving wayfinding and reliable information helps reduce unpredictability that may keep veterans from getting outdoors, ensuring a veteran has all the information at hand to plan an outdoor activity and know what to expect can help alleviate anxiety and uncertainty and just feel more in control, which is why the implementation details of the explore act matter so much.
▶ 0:52:56The recommendations in our written testimony are informed by experience delivering hundreds of programs each year, as well as the lived experiences of the warriors who participate in them. Warriors like don, a marine veteran from arizona who recently attended one of our winter adaptive sports clinics following an amputation, don was unsure whether he would ever snowboard again.
▶ 0:53:17Through the clinic, he had access to adaptive equipment, trained instructors and a supportive group of peers, which gave him the confidence to challenge himself and get back up on that mountain. Don shared that experiencing the outdoors again in a setting designed with access and support in mind, allowed him to connect with him, reconnect with parts of himself that he thought were gone. He told us.
▶ 0:53:39Being mindful of how much we miss while we're serving on active duty, I can't thank you enough for letting me experience more of the country that I defended. And joseph, an ohio marine veteran managing ptsd and a traumatic brain injury who just recently participated in a project odyssey experience in asheville, north carolina, which included a hike in the beautiful blue ridge mountains. Joseph shared that the combination of nature and peer camaraderie helped reduce feelings of isolation, and reawakened his desire to try new things.
▶ 0:54:08Encouraging one another up the mountain created a renewed sense of purpose and connection. For joseph, access was not just about the trail, it was about confidence, clarity and feeling safe enough to engage. These stories highlight why careful implementation of the explorer act is key to ensuring its vision of expanded outdoor access becomes a lived reality for veterans. As the sections entitled to are implemented, we recommend focusing on a few core principles.
▶ 0:54:35First, accessibility information must support independent planning, not just guided or organization facilitated use. Second, the information must be specific, consistent and practical so veterans can understand what to expect before they arrive. And third, accessibility must be integrated into broader recreation systems in ways that feels inclusive rather than separate or symbolic.
▶ 0:55:02Inventories of facilities and trails should capture details. Veterans actually need to make decisions and access wayfinding and safety considerations. Pilot programs should test scalable solutions that improve clarity and usability without compromising the natural character of public lands. Promotion efforts should should measure success by distributed information, and whether veterans are aware of using and returning to these spaces independently. When done well.
▶ 0:55:33Accessibility supports transition. It builds confidence and allows more veterans to experience our public lands as places of healing, connection and belonging. In closing, wounded warrior project thanks the subcommittee for its commitment to veterans and for advancing the explore act. We are honored to contribute to this conversation and send ready to continue working with you and federal agencies to ensure implementation reflects the realities and the potential of the veterans reserve. Thank you and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you, miss elias. I now recognize members for five minutes.
▶ 0:56:02For questions, I turn to the chairman of the full committee, Mr. westermann, for your question. >> thank you, chairman tiffany, and thank you again to the witnesses for for being here today. My first question is for the entire panel. In my opening statement, I mentioned in our efforts to reauthorize the great american outdoors act that we wanted to direct some of this funding towards recreation infrastructure improvements, including for accessibility that may not be classified as deferred maintenance.
▶ 0:56:29So how could expanding the great american outdoors act in this way help create dedicated funding that would help actualize the goals of title two in the explore act? And Mr. stone, great to see you here today. We'll start with you. And if anybody has, uh, comments, we'd love to hear that. >> yeah, great to see you again as well. Hopefully you'll make it back out to wyoming in the near future. Um. That's an interesting question. I think.
▶ 0:57:01Well, I think what we have in the explorer act is, is interesting. So we have these trails that we're trying to create. They're going to work for the majority of people with the majority of mobility disabilities. And I think when you get people with disabilities involved, you start to see that there's a lot more. As you saw taggart lake, there's a lot more that people with disabilities are able to actually accomplish than just the, the base line or the most accessible trails that can be out there.
▶ 0:57:29So I think when, when we start expanding into these other areas, like you mentioned, and we get people with disabilities involved, we start to see a lot more open up on our public lands than just these small projects that are put into place for the most accessible areas.
▶ 0:57:46And we start to see people with disabilities of all kinds being able to explore and go far more places than a lot of people think, but also be able to challenge themselves and grow as a human and grow as a community as they go into more technical environments, further into the mountains, deeper into the rivers.
▶ 0:58:05Um, I don't know if that necessarily answers your question, but I think it's important that as we expand into all of these other areas that we are looking beyond just the checked boxes, and we're using that funding to create access on so many other levels, that's the kind of thing you can only really get when you include people with disabilities in that process. To be able to have a true understanding of what can be done. >> thank you.
▶ 0:58:36>> anybody else want to address that? >> um, thank you, chairman wasserman, for that question. I think on face value, my initial reaction is that's that's a pretty good idea. The problem that I see is g o a is, is basically been created to address the, the trail maintenance backlog, which is terrible and growing even, you know, even more steeply now.
▶ 0:59:07And I think diluting that goal could be problematic because, you know, I think it could build bipartisan support for the, for the reauthorization for sure. But but I don't I'm worried that it the gao is success in the future, after the next five years of its efforts, would be judged on how much deferred maintenance it's eliminating.
▶ 0:59:35>> so do you think, as we do, deferred maintenance on these trails, modifying the trails for accessibility, do you think that should be allowed or. >> absolutely. Yeah. Okay. That should be a. Kind of. >> what we're getting at here. Yeah, yeah. Any let's give the other two an opportunity and we'll come back to you. Mr. stone. >> thank you for the question, sir. I'm going to defer to my colleagues as far as the intricacies of the answer for your question, however, I will just flag that a big priority for pva and their members.
▶ 1:00:04It always starts in the parking lot. Um, right. Critical resources are needed to ensure that accessible, particularly van parking spaces are available. Um, we see this at va facilities. We see this at shopping centers. Um, the difference between a handicap accessible vehicle and a van accessible parking space. That's, that's feet. That's whether or not you can even get out of your vehicle to go access those outdoors. And so for us, we always say it starts in the parking lot.
▶ 1:00:34>> sir elias. >> I'll be brief because I know we're short on time, but I think anytime you add additional resources to anything, you're going to help make it better. The the concern becomes the blurring of of boundaries. However, to me, it makes a lot of sense to add resources so that as the maintenance occurs, you can build in the accessibility accommodations on the wayside. The one thing I would ask as you look at this is we're focusing a lot in many of these hearings and in the, um, reports that have been put out around architectural accessibility.
▶ 1:01:03And I want to just encourage you to perhaps include some language around those with cognitive disabilities to make sure that we're including like tactile and other sorts of less, um, terrain related, um, accessibility modifications as you add this additional resources, I think that would be very valuable. >> thank you. I had a whole bunch of questions and we only got to one of them and didn't even have time to answer that thoroughly, but we'll submit these questions.
▶ 1:01:29Uh, so you can give us handwritten answers back for the record. Appreciate you all. And I yield back. >> chairman yields. And I'll recognize miss dexter for her questioning. >> actually, I'll give. >> um, miss randall, are you prepared to ask your questions? You bet. I recognize the gentlelady from washington. >> thank you so much to all the witnesses for sharing your perspectives on the implementation of the explorer act.
▶ 1:01:59The explore act is all about increasing access to our public lands, including for veterans, for individuals with disabilities, and for young people. And in my district, the olympic national park welcomed more than 3.5 million visitors in 2025.
▶ 1:02:15Statewide, our outdoor recreation economy generates over 25 billion annually, ensuring adequate staffing and full funding is essential not only to protecting wildlife and resources, but also to the visitor experience. And I heard just the end of that series of answers. Um, it seems like we have more to do. Just maintain trails, clean bathrooms, trash cans that are regularly empty and not overflowing.
▶ 1:02:44Those are so important to the experience of folks. Um, and at the bare minimum should be like a priority of our, um, national park service. And all these things are made harder when our federal workforce is under attack and shrinking. Last year, the national park service lost 25% of their staff from cuts, from hiring freezes and from other factors.
▶ 1:03:13And to make matters worse, the forest service also lost 9000 workers that preserve those trails and keep our public lands accessible. It's hard to think about how we expand into, um, you know, more interpretive, uh, parks experiences when we're hardly able to keep the trails maintained and the trash cans empty.
▶ 1:03:34National parks and forest service workers are performing two, sometimes three jobs to do the work to make our parks safe and welcoming to visitors. And on top of that, national park staff across the western us are being sent here to washington dc for months long details and the forest service relocation and reorganization plans may impact as many as 200 staff in washington state.
▶ 1:04:02This administration isn't just firing and forcibly relocating staff, they're also wiping out the funding for the programs that ensure our public lands are protected for generations to come. I heard from a neighbor in hoodsport who grew up dreaming about being a park ranger, and is now a part about to start his third season as one. He told me that many of his colleagues have already had their jobs rescinded for the summer, and he's worried that any day now he'll be next.
▶ 1:04:30But he's not even concerned about himself. He told me I'm concerned by what the future holds for the park that is so near and dear to my heart. What happens when we fall short of staff, when we're already stretched thin, when millions more visitors come to see our wonderful parks and we want that. We want millions more visitors to come to be able to access, to have, um, the accommodations that they need to access our beautiful parks. And it's not possible when we are short staffed.
▶ 1:05:00Laura from port angeles also wants to know how the park can safely handle the millions of visitors in the summer without backcountry rangers, booth fee collectors, front desk personnel, maintenance and trail workers have all the same questions as laura.
▶ 1:05:16And you know, I try to experience our our natural resources and our federal lands as often as I can when I'm home and learning from folks who are doing this work on the ground is why I think that we need to keep fighting for appropriations and robust funding for our federal trails.
▶ 1:05:43But a few examples of what the president's proposed budget does is that it cuts the forest service, recreation, heritage and wilderness program by 27%, cuts the forest service trail maintenance construction program by 64%, zeroes out 18 million in funding for technical assistance to localities for cohesive rivers, trails and conservation assistance, and cuts by 47%. Blm's recreation infrastructure access improvements and permitting modernizations. That sounds bad to me.
▶ 1:06:10Uh, miss howell, Mr. paso, could you elaborate on how any of these proposed budget cuts and relocations impact the accessibility and the goals of the explorer act? >> thanks for that question. I, I, I do think it makes it almost impossible to implement it fully, and I'm very worried about it, to be honest.
▶ 1:06:39And there's, you know, I have I mentioned in my opening that, that we have a grant program where several of the people that we, you know, we have the funding encumbered and it's ready to go, but they can't get the sign offs on their on their forest service land.
▶ 1:06:57And that's throwing away thousands of volunteer hours, or at least delaying them when they could be getting some real important accessibility or trail maintenance or anything done on public lands. So it's a huge impact. >> thank you. >> it will give you time to answer the question. >> thank you sir. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:07:24>> I just wanted to make sure, um, thank you for the question, ma'am. Uh, we share concerns that without appropriate resources, that the deferred maintenance projects and other accessibility work may be delayed. Um, as I wrote in my written testimony, one of our advocacy attorneys is working with one of our members on a federal, um, a federal property that has an accessibility, uh, barrier that, that is on the list, but for a year or so, that keeps being deferred and deferred and deferred.
▶ 1:07:50And while the project is designed and they know how to fix it, they don't have the resources to implement that. And that's just one small project in one park and one person. And so we have concerns about, um, making sure that there's enough resources and staff to be able to see this bill come to its full potential. Thank you. >> thank you. I appreciate your grace. Mr. chair. I yield back. >> gentlelady's time has expired. Now, recognize the gentleman from minnesota, Mr. stauber. >> thank you very much, chairman tiffany. And to the witnesses.
▶ 1:08:20Thank you very much, Mr. pastel. Mr. stone, your testimony is, uh, very interesting and heartfelt. Thank you for taking the time to come and speak to us. Uh, miss howell, in your written testimony, you raised concerns how various federal agencies interpret the term wheelchair in federal statutes and regulations. Can you please expand upon this? >> yes, sir. Thank you for the question. Um, I believe in the hearing memo that was provided.
▶ 1:08:48They also stressed that when our staff was working with committee staff drafting the mvp act, that is something that we frequently ran into, was that the antiquated definition of a wheelchair is going to be something the different agencies run up against. Um, we also were able to speak with, um, national park service accessibility officers and they've seen, they've seen issues with that definition as well. Um, I'm not sure if in the next big bill that the committee works on in a bipartisan fashion, maybe we can amend that.
▶ 1:09:18Um, but the truth of the matter is, is when we write the term wheelchair 50 years ago, with all the advancements that we've talked about today in technology, we need to make sure that these long standing definitions and features that we've relied on historically, that we're making sure to pay attention to updating that language. >> as well. Yeah. So what you're saying is different land management agencies like the blm park service and forest service, along with the department of veterans affairs, they're interpreting this differently, correct? >> I believe so, yes, sir.
▶ 1:09:49>> yeah. And are you seeing inconsistencies in the interpretations across different units of a single land management agency? In other words, is the park service's interpretation consistent across all national parks, or is the forest service interpretations consistent across all national forests? >> sir, based on the conversation that I've had with an nps staffer, I believe that different agencies are pulling different things.
▶ 1:10:13So there may not be an equitable understanding of the term wheelchair, even across agencies. >> yeah, that's what we're hearing. The same thing. I appreciate that. Uh, miss elias, can you please speak to the roles that outside organizations or individuals play in veterans, uh, accessing our public lands, whether they be veterans service organizations or independent cooperators or concessioners, uh, that provide guide services to the public. >> absolutely.
▶ 1:10:43Thank you for that question. The roles that organizations play in getting veterans outdoors is helping for many of us, you know, accessing national parks is not a something that we think of doing in the first place. We don't know how it's uncomfortable. And so organizations such as wounded warrior project and other organizations that are out there become that comfortable gateway, that hand-holding to make sure that we know how to access, how to use, especially as we're living with disabilities that we have acquired versus disabilities we're born with, they help us learn how to navigate those.
▶ 1:11:15Just as Mr. stone spoke about earlier, how to navigate those now with the limitations that our bodies have and the new abilities that we're developing because of that. >> thank you. And just to provide some context, in northern minnesota, home to places like voyageurs national park and the chippewa and superior national forest, we've been fighting this issue for years. At voyageurs. We've seen complicated policies put into place that are making it even harder and harder for guides that, uh, operate under cooperative agreements within the park service.
▶ 1:11:42Just walk away simply because the park service makes it too hard and too expensive to operate. Uh, and on the superior national forest, we've seen vsos blocked from providing tow boat or motorized use access for disabled veterans, preventing veterans from accessing and enjoying, including areas like the boundary waters. Um, so, um, my wife and I are blessed to have a down syndrome child and he's his diagnosis is severe and profound.
▶ 1:12:09It, he, uh, he has a difficult, uh, process walking on uneven surfaces. I don't think any one of this panelists would disagree with that statement. It is not fair that he cannot walk these uneven surfaces to see the beauty in this land. We are all about accessing for all, all four of you and our special needs children. And this is what we have to continue to push. That's why Mr. stone, Mr.
▶ 1:12:37Paso, uh, miss howell, miss elias, that's why your testimony is extremely important. We're going to get this done together, so we all, Mr. paso, so we all can enjoy our federal lands. Because you are in a wheelchair, you should not be, uh. You should not be, um, disallowed to have access to our entire federal force and enjoy it, like you said. Um, and it struck me that that after your acts that you were talking about, how are you going to get back out there?
▶ 1:13:07You should be able to get back out there yesterday. Uh, it's not it's not right. And I know that this is a bipartisan issue that we can fix, and we're going to fix it because everybody deserves to go and have access. Uh, everybody deserves to have an opportunity to have motorized access across, uh, hilly terrain if they can't walk or in a wheelchair to see those parts, to get to that fishing hole that you want in our national parks and wilderness areas. Uh, Mr.
▶ 1:13:34Chair ranking member dexter, thank you for holding this. This is really key and I yield back. >> gentleman yields, and I'll recognize miss dexter for her questioning. >> thank you so much. And what an important conversation. I'm deeply grateful to everyone for bringing this forward today.
▶ 1:13:53I will just note that my team and I were on the timberline trail last summer in the national forest, mount hood national forest, and there had been a year prior tree fall that was blocking the trail. So we had backpacks couldn't get across. I absolutely have experienced the deferred maintenance for even those who are able, let alone those with disabilities.
▶ 1:14:18So this is an important issue and I want to underline the importance of us actually having the staff to clear those trails and to maintain those areas. Um, I also want to just make sure I double down on something my colleague, representative stauber just talked about that, um, everyone should have access that we absolutely want to make that possible.
▶ 1:14:42Um, I also heard that there was some confusion around the definition that we are, are dealing with here. And I am surprised by that because there's one definition and it is in the americans with disabilities act and section 507 of the ada, and it actually refers specifically to, um, the wilderness act. And so I wonder why there would be confusion about what that definition is.
▶ 1:15:12And certainly if we need to create, you know, a broader definition, we should be using a central, um, statute for that because we don't want our national forests and our national park service and blm lands to be using a different definition than our hospitals or our other areas. Now, this is specific to the wilderness act. So, um, Mr.
▶ 1:15:34Passo, I want to ask you some questions around stalled projects and the impact on everyone's accessibility to this. And also for you in particular, you know, what, um, accessible trails look like and do you, um, I'm happy to go through the wheelchair definition, but I think that you have personal experience on that.
▶ 1:15:58So would love for you to pontificate a little bit about the relative importance of trail maintenance writ large and also what it means for people with disabilities to be able to access it and be able to truly access it. >> thanks. Thank you for that question. I think, um, I guess just referring to the definition of a wheelchair.
▶ 1:16:22I think I'm back in, I'm sorry, in the 90s, I worked on, uh, project to define wilderness access and what a, you know, how the wheelchair definition fits in. And, and we, we did a bunch of research, it's called the wilderness access decision tool. And we came down to kind of a simple question, like, would you be kicked out of a mall if you used that, that device?
▶ 1:16:51And the, I, I think the key to the definition is the suitability element, you know, is this suitable for indoor use? And that, you know, comes down to, you know, the size of the, of the piece of adaptive equipment and the speed it's used.
▶ 1:17:09You know, if you're in, in a rogue or a, you know, a, one of the really high end new kind of adaptive equipment, you wouldn't be kicked out of a mall for using it unless you're going 50 miles an hour, you know?o, so I think that all still applies.
▶ 1:17:29And then in terms of the, you know, like kind of what a, an accessible trail, you know, looks like, I think I've always said, much like Mr. stone just articulated, it's 80% of accessibility is information.
▶ 1:17:48It's, it's if I know that I can get down a trail and that there's going to be a narrow spot that gets me to, you know, 29in in my, my wheelchair or my, you know, adaptive equipment is 29in wide. I know I can get by and therefore, I know that me and my family are going to have a wonderful experience and no money had to be spent on that. And I can choose the place I want to go, the time I want to go.
▶ 1:18:18>> to also reiterate something I heard miss howell say, to be able to get to that point, you have to actually be able to get into a parking lot and be able to get that mobility device out. Um, in your experience, is that a broadly available, um, opportunity for people in our national parks and national forests?
▶ 1:18:41>> um, I would say it, it's pretty hit or miss, um, depending on the, the, the use it gets, you know, obviously national parks are much more accessible in that entry level, but there are exceptions. Forests and blm land is a whole nother ball of wax.
▶ 1:18:59And honestly, I, I personally this is just my personal opinion, but I appreciate the ability to know that I'm going to have a dirt parking lot and the experience is going to be much more rugged. And if I choose that, then that, you know, still accessible to me. And, uh, we know on everything to be paved. I think we've all said that over and over again. >> yeah, I appreciate that. And just to with your grace, um, Mr.
▶ 1:19:28Chair, having information about where those places are so you can make that decision ahead of time is critical. So before we start really doing much else, I think we need that survey. So thank you I yield back. >> gentlelady yields and I share this document with the ranking minority member. And um I'm going to take my five minutes for questionings. Um so Mr. passo, it's great to have you here in washington dc.
▶ 1:19:52And um, I really liked your use of the word recreate, um, because it is the truth that, um, it's a enjoying northern wisconsin just as you do. Um, I certainly feel that way. So do you have any specific examples, Mr. paso, like in the national forest, which is our national forest in the state of wisconsin, where you have concerns that could be addressed by some changes to explore.
▶ 1:20:24>> um, specific examples, I guess, would, you know, especially in the national forest, if you've been up there, there's a lot of really great logging roads that actually provide pretty wonderful accessibility, but a lot of them have, they've dug them out and piled up, um, dirt so that. >> they burned them. >> burned. Yeah.
▶ 1:20:47They've put, they've put, uh, holes in berms to stop cars from going down there and that, you know, with a little bit of modification that could be adjusted to be more accessible for, for an example, um, go ahead. >> um, yeah, I would just add, um, so we had a hearing in hayward a, a year ago on this issue for access into specifically the nicollet.
▶ 1:21:15And we use that as an example, um, that is going on across the country as we're seeing, there's like 2000 miles of, um, trails on our national forests. Um, both blm and, um, national forest land is being closed down every year, so access is being limited. Um, and this has been going on for a couple decades and I don't know about you, but it's certainly a concern for me. I don't know if you share that same concern.
▶ 1:21:47>> yeah, I do. I mean, the one of the things that I discovered in, in breaking my back is that when you, when something is taken away from you, that, that allows you, uh, to recreate yourself, it causes a visceral reaction. It hits you right in your soul. You know, when that happens. And then therefore you're going to, people are going to be inordinately upset about it.
▶ 1:22:15And, and I think, you know, whether it's closing down a, a motorized route that had historic use, um, without thinking through the process or any, for any reason, pulling away at a person's ability to recreate themselves is going to create a very strong reaction. And it's going to cause a lot of the multi-use conflict that we see these days.
▶ 1:22:45So I think we need to be very careful about closing roads. It does need to happen sometimes for, you know, natural resource protection reasons, but it needs to be it shouldn't ever be flippantly done. >> yeah. Well, I appreciate those comments because I want you to know that we're fighting to keep those, um, trails open that have been used for for decades and across generations, not just in northern wisconsin, but across america.
▶ 1:23:14And it's important to have that access. Um, miss elias, um, as we go forward with this, how can we better leverage organizations like yours to expand access and do it more quickly? >> thank you for that question, sir. Uh, there are so many different things that that I want to say, and I'm going to try to keep it truncated.
▶ 1:23:36I think, um, first off, I believe you mentioned in your opening remarks, if veterans don't know that this, that these opportunities are out there, they're not going to utilize them. So I think one of the best ways to work with organizations like ours is to make sure that we have the information so that we can share it out to our membership. Um, especially since we're often the gateway to the outdoors for so many veterans. I think too, similar to what Mr.
▶ 1:23:58Passos talked about is we have hundreds of volunteers that would be happy to support and serve as we're implementing the sections of title two of the explore act. So using us as pathways for information, as well as using us for the service that we can provide, is probably two of the best ways that you can utilize organizations like ours. >> thank you very much for that. And thank you to all the panelists. I am going to yield back, and I recognize miss leger fernandez for your questioning. >> uh, thank you so very much. And I so appreciated reading the testimony.
▶ 1:24:27Um, you know, we, we had a hearing out at grand tetons and, and hiked up a trail that's going to become available and accessible. Uh, and it was great. It was so great because when we go out in nature, we experience r a w e, right?
▶ 1:24:49And we realize both how insignificant we are and how connected we are not just to nature, but to each other in an interesting way. I find it fascinating. I love that we are doing this, that the explore act is making it possible. We need to do more so everybody knows it's there. I like the testimony that talked about that. Um, so Mr.
▶ 1:25:10Elias, uh, you actually pointed out some of, uh, sorry, miss elias, um, you pointed out some of those, uh, recommendations about how we can better serve our veterans. Um, and can you sort of give me a quick story maybe of how improving accessibility actually helps veterans who experience cognitive disabilities from their service?
▶ 1:25:42>> sure. Absolutely. I'd, I'd love to share that with you. So, um, you know, living with, with a cognitive disability or living with a mental health disorder, one of the things that we don't always recognize is the symptom. Is it as easy to become disoriented?
▶ 1:25:56And so ensuring that pathways are very clear and intentionally marked, um, can and that we have access to that information before we get there can help alleviate a lot of the stress and anxiety so that we're able to mitigate, mitigate, mitigate and minimize anything that might cause our stress levels to rise so that we have more space for the anxiety that just comes from being outdoors and being in nature naturally.
▶ 1:26:22And so, um, you know, one of the things I think I've talked about in my testimony that's written is just making sure that that language is clear and making sure that it's accessible. And a lot of times we think accessible, like just putting it on the website, but some of our veterans also live with vision impairment. And so making sure that those assistive devices and tools are able to read and utilize and feed to the veteran. That information is, is one of the best ways to do so.
▶ 1:26:44In my oral remarks, I talked about a veteran named joseph who's navigating life with a tbi and ptsd, and how the ability to get outdoors almost helped find him a renewed sense of purpose in life, and an excitement that he did not have before that outdoor experience. >> thank you. And you know, the explore act is great about how it's opening up these new opportunities for veterans.
▶ 1:27:05Uh, I will also point out that the veterans affairs department has cut 40,000 positions since president trump took office, and 88% of those cuts were to the veterans health administration. And veterans absolutely deserve access to our parks. They also have earned access to a doctor and the health benefits, uh, that it's not a deserve. It's an earn. They suffered for us.
▶ 1:27:33And we need to provide those benefits in our parks and in our hospitals. Uh, I'm also worried a bit about this concept of feeling welcome that I heard throughout and I read throughout, um, that right now the trump administration has made certain communities feel less welcome at national parks by trying to erase history.
▶ 1:28:00Under president trump's executive orders, the forest service has been directed to remove signs across the country, some of those signs being removed, or about the forced removal of native americans, the practice of slavery. They targeted the enola gay because it had gay on its name. Um, and I think that there is something about the the journey we are all on together is overcoming obstacles.
▶ 1:28:24Um, and that's in many ways what veterans have done is they have, they are the ones who have led us in that journey together from the revolutionary war to the civil war and moving forward. Um, Mr. paso, how does a censored history at national parks impact the sense of belonging for the very communities that the explorer act aims to serve? If you could speak to that. >> yeah. Thank you for that question.
▶ 1:28:53Um, I do think, you know, as I stated before that, that the explorer act is about everybody getting access in whatever way they can to our public lands and that everybody is the critical component. It includes people with disabilities, people of color, um, uh, native americans. It's, it's across the board look, which I think is important.
▶ 1:29:22You know, it's, it's what makes the explorer act kind of unique and also something that everybody can really buy into and feel, feel a part of. And it's the reason that it's so bipartisan. >> yeah, I love that everybody includes everybody. What a concept. Uh, I'd like to, uh, I'll yield back, but I'd like to seek unanimous consent. Mr.
▶ 1:29:47Chair, uh, I'd like to seek unanimous consent to enter into the record. The national park signs related to native americans climate change need to be removed. Uh, and among the national parks targeting the new removal orders are some of the country's most iconic grand canyon glacier. Big bend, and zion, dated january 27th, 2026. >> without objection, the gentlelady yields and I turn to miss stansbury for her questioning. >> good morning.
▶ 1:30:16I want to just start by welcoming all of you for coming and traveling all across the country to be here with us today. And for those of you who are here joining us in the room, we're watching from at home who have served this great nation and are a veteran, we want to say thank you for your service as well.
▶ 1:30:33I'm very excited to be here today to celebrate our nation's 250th birthday by celebrating a critical bipartisan bill that we passed just two years ago in this congress to help expand opportunities for our communities to experience the wonder, the joy, and the exceptional need to connect with nature through our great outdoors, and in particular, a bill that is so near and dear to my heart, which is a bill that we passed to expand access
▶ 1:31:05For veterans and people living with disabilities to experience the great outdoors. The explorer act helps more families, more students, more veterans, and more communities explore and experience the outdoors, especially in the landscapes that so define our country and what it is.
▶ 1:31:21It represents one of the most significant comprehensive and bipartisan recreation packages that we've passed in this body in years recreation, infrastructure, federal lands, rural gateway communities, expanded opportunities for underserved communities. It extended every kid outdoors program for school age children. And of course, it included our bill, which is a bipartisan bill to expand accessibility on our federal lands.
▶ 1:31:50I was particularly grateful for the opportunity to have it included in this package, working with chairman westerman and alongside juan ciscomani of tucson. This legislation directed the secretary of interior and of agriculture to conduct a comprehensive assessment of accessibility across our trails, our campsites, our recreational facilities.
▶ 1:32:14Because for far too long, as has been discussed here this morning, we've lacked a clear understanding of where those accessibility gaps actually exist. And so helping to identify where those gaps are is very important to make sure that our communities can actually experience the great outdoors. And in new mexico, we understand deeply how central our public lands are to our communities and our cultures.
▶ 1:32:41Nearly half of our state is publicly owned, but these are places where our families gather. Traditions are passed down. There are lands that have been sacred and important to our communities for countless generations, where people go hunting and fishing and where they find restoration, resilience and connection. And in new mexico, the importance for veterans cannot be understated. More than 130,000 veterans call new mexico home service.
▶ 1:33:09As a part of our culture, our identity, and who we are as new mexicans, and ensuring that our veterans have access to our trails and campsites and recreation areas is essential also for the healing powers of the outdoors, ensuring that they can access these landscapes not only strengthens their own well-being, but as part of the long term resilience and support for our communities in new mexico.
▶ 1:33:37So I'm excited to celebrate the passage of this bill, especially on earth day. And I want to just go back to our witnesses. We have two here who are joining us from veterans organizations.
▶ 1:33:49And I know you've covered a lot of ground already about this, but I wonder if we could give 60s each to miss howell and to miss elias to talk about the importance for veterans of accessing accessing the great outdoors and what else this body can do to help support our veterans. >> unfortunately, you've only given them about 65 seconds for the two of them. You may answer. >> thank you for the question, ma'am.
▶ 1:34:18As a former new mexican who deployed with the new mexico national guard, I share your enthusiasm for the beauty and wonder that is the land of enchantment. Um, I think it's it's critical that we see the explorer act for everything that all of the committee members that work so diligently to pass it, we need to see it reach its full potential. Um, as we, as all of us have kind of harped on this, this hearing that's going to take staff, it's going to take resources, it's going to take partnerships, and it's going to take interagency cooperation.
▶ 1:34:47And I think as long as the right people are at the helm, and as long as the folks who believe in the mission are driving that conversation, which includes people with disabilities, which is bill targets, um, I think we'll make serious progress. >> I think, uh, along with the comments I've already shared today. Thank you for the opportunity, ma'am. Um, intentional implementation is key here, right? What we do and as we enact the, um, measures of this bill, it needs to be built in versus bolted on. So it can't be the afterthought.
▶ 1:35:18It needs to be something that's absolutely intentional from the moment that we start implementing this program, which I think we've seen happen through the reports that are there, um, and we stand by to share the experience and expertise that we've developed over the programs that we provide for veterans. And we're happy to, to anytime you need us. Um, I think also one thing we haven't talked about that I just want to highlight a little bit is, um, communicating the effect and the impact of weather on trails as we're talking about plain and clear communication. Uh, you know, a slate pathway is going to become quite different to transgress once it's wet.
▶ 1:35:47And so that needs to be a part of that plan. Clear communication that we're sharing with our, our folks that are accessing the parks. Thank you. >> thank you so much for being here today. Yield back. >> gentlelady's time has expired. I'd like to thank the witnesses for your testimony today and the members for your questions. Members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for you, and we will ask that the witnesses respond to those in writing. Under committee rule three members of the subcommittee must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk by 5 p.m.
▶ 1:36:15On monday, april 27th, 2026. The hearing record will be held open for ten business days for those responses. If there is no further business. Without objection, the subcommittee on federal lands stands adjourned.