▶ 0:04:28The subcommittee on health, employment, labor, and pensions will come to order. I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the chair is authorized to call a recess at any time. Today's hearing will examine the policies and priorities of the Employee Benefits Security Administration, EPSA, under the leadership of Assistant Secretary David uh and and David, make sure I get this right. Aronowitz, would that be correct? Okay, I didn't Okay, good. Thank you.
▶ 0:04:59The committee is focused on protecting workers, lowering cost, restoring accountability in our benefits system. Simply put, retirement and health benefits must actually work for American families. Today, we will hear about the ways the Trump administration is advancing these priorities. EPSA is responsible for regulating employer provided uh benefit plans subject to the employee retirement income security act 1974 um as known as Orisa.
▶ 0:05:29This includes the oversight of millions of retirement and health benefit plans covering 156 million Americans and holding approximately 14 trillion in assets. The retirement savings that Americans have worked so hard for should never be put at risk by politically motivated mismanagement. Retirement plan should be about returns, not politics. The Trump administration has taken action to reverse harm harmful Biden era policies.
▶ 0:05:54So work workers retirement savings are invested to prioritize maximum returns instead of notoriously underperforming political or social causes. My bill, the protecting prudent investment of retirement savings act does exactly this and I look forward to hearing what further action can be taken by EPSA. Too often healthc care prices are hidden from both patients and employers making true competition impossible as costs soar.
▶ 0:06:23Competition is the only way to bring down cost. Worse, such high cost and regulatory burdens make it harder for employers to offer competitive health care to their employees. Employers should have access to health plan data so they can design plans that meet employee needs while lowering health care cost.
▶ 0:06:43This committee will continue to prioritize legislation that expands health care and billing transparency and ends abusive pricing and kickback schemes while working to expand access to high quality affordable health care benefits. Finally, we must re in burdensome and costly investigations. While oversight of employee benefit plans is necessary, it must be targeted, efficient, and focused on real violations.
▶ 0:07:09Under the Biden administration, EPSA abused its authority by conducting lengthy and aimless investigations paid for by taxpayers and employers. This committee has advanced legislation targeting this very problem and I look forward to hearing what steps the Trump administration is taking to end this f these frivolous investigations. Uh Mr. Oroneritz um you have been a leader in employee uh benefits plan managements for sec for decades.
▶ 0:07:37I look forward to hearing from you about the work EPSA has done to protect workers health and retirement plans and ensure these benefits actually work for American families. With that, I'll yield to the ranking me ranking member for an opening statement.
▶ 0:07:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I also want to welcome the assistant secretary. This is your first time testifying before our subcommittee since uh you were confirmed. So, welcome. Um, the Department of Labor's Employee Benefit Security Administration, EPSA for short, is a critically important agency that is charged with protecting workers hard-earned retirement and health benefits.
▶ 0:08:14EPSA has tremendous scope overseeing over 837,000 private sector retirement plans, roughly 2.8 million health plans, and 520 uh other plans. While EPSA has enormous responsibilities, its funding and staffing are woefully inadequate.
▶ 0:08:35Unfortunately, President Trump's most recent budget makes things worse, proposing to cut EPS's budget by 10 million below last year's funding level, resulting in a reduction of 47 full-time employees. EPS's budget once supported over a thousand employees. Yet, President Trump's proposed funding level for EPSU would support only 640. That's unacceptable.
▶ 0:08:58We all want an efficient delivery of services, but we don't want a replication of Doge that is not thoughtful and analyzed properly. Today's hearing comes at a time when workers and their families across the country are struggling to afford basic necessities. We look at gas prices. President Trump's reckless tariffs and senseless war in Iran have spurred chaos in the financial markets. Although they're good today, but who knows what'll happen tomorrow.
▶ 0:09:26caused largely by the erratic uh policies that have left inconsistencies at the gas pump for struggling families. According to data from Vanguard, there's a rising number of Americans who are tapping their retirement savings accounts to cover emergency expenses. And the New York Times recently reported on the trend of middleclass Americans selling their plasma to help with the high cost of housing, groceries, and healthcare. The last thing that these American workers and their families need is more risk.
▶ 0:09:57But I'm afraid that's what we've been getting from the current administration. The labor department abandoned an essential protection ensuring workers do not get ripped off of their financial by their financial advisor when investing their retirement nest egg. Return on investment is important, but also again proper oversight on that return on investment and financial advisors is also important.
▶ 0:10:21The department also proposed a rule to provide a safe harbor for retirement plan managers to offer high-cost investments such as crypto and private equity in workers 401k plans. The department also has taken no action to address the pernitious claim denials that make health care unaffordable for marameans and has been important subject of this subcommittee in both majorities.
▶ 0:10:48And the department announced it would not enforce the 224 mental health parody final rule and will not defend it from a lawsuit brought by representatives of some of the largest corporations in the world who want to avoid their responsibilities to provide health care under their insurance plans including Mr. Under Secretary, I understand that you led a successful business before taking this public service role.
▶ 0:11:15As my committee members know, I often remind my Republican colleagues, I was once a Republican and I was once a small business owner. I understand the pressure of making a payroll, but I'm concerned that EPS's approach so far under your leadership sees such regulatory issues through a fairly narrow lens by combating legis litigation by encouraging com combative litigation.
▶ 0:11:41As a result, EPSA appears to consistently prioritize the interest of corporations over workers and their families, who I'm sure we both agree are central to EPSA's mission. This is not a correct approach in my view. Workers and families need an EPSA that fights for them, stands up for their interests. We must not retreat from that core principle. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
▶ 0:12:07Thank you for yielding. And uh uh Mr. Secretary, I do need to make one correction. I apologize. It's it's Daniel and not David.
▶ 0:12:15Thank you.
▶ 0:12:16Two great names, but uh but I apologize and I correct the record on that. All right. Now, pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements to the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record.
▶ 0:12:45I note that some of our colleagues who are not permanent members this of this committee may may be waving on for the purpose of today's hearing. Uh, I will now turn to the introduction of our witness, uh, the honorable Daniel Aronovitz, assistant secretary of employee benefits of the employee benefits security administration at the Department of Labor. Uh, we thank you for being here today. We look forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:13:12Pursuant to committee rules, I would ask you that you limit your oral presentation to a threeminut summary of your written statement. As committee members have many questions for you, the clock will count down from three minutes. Pursuant to committee rule 8D and committee practice, however, we will not cut off your testimony until you reach the five minute mark. I would also like to remind you to be aware of your responsibility to provide accurate information to the subcommittee.
▶ 0:13:38I will now uh recognize Assistant Secretary Oranovich for your testimony. Good morning, Chairman Allen, Ranking Member Donier, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me here today to testify about the important work of the Employee Benefits Security Administration at the United States Department of Labor. EPSA is charged with protecting American workers retirement and health care benefits under ORISA.
▶ 0:14:07We are stewards of retirement and health plans in America. Unfortunately, prior to my confirmation last year, litigation abuse and regulatory overreach threatened harm to Americans retirement and health plans. Innovation stagnated as employers were paralyzed with very rational fears. EPSA under President Trump and Secretary Chavez Damer's bold leadership is charting a new course.
▶ 0:14:37in a voluntary system. We want more employers to offer more benefits. To execute this vision, we are addressing regulatory overreach and litigation abuse with three key goals in mind. First, we are providing regulatory clarity for retirement and health plan sponsors.
▶ 0:14:58President Trump's American worker first agenda for employer sponsored health care is designed to put control back in the hands of employers and employees, drive down costs and maximize value. We strive for a health care system where every dollar is traceable, every contract is understandable, and employers and workers get real value for their money. Our mission is simple.
▶ 0:15:25use Orisa's full power to demand value and lower cost by holding health insurers, PBMs, and service providers accountable. EPSA's groundbreaking proposed transparency rulemaking gives plan fiduciaries the tools they need to carry out their responsibilities and negotiate fair contracts with PBMs. Once finalized, this rule will save the American worker and the health care system billions of dollars over the next 10 years.
▶ 0:15:53Coupled with the new provisions in the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2026, specifically the requirement to pass through 100% of manufacturer rebates, this creates for the first time a complete transparency framework for prescription drug pricing for retirement plans.
▶ 0:16:12Under President Trump's directive, EPSA took decisive steps on March 31st to alleviate regulatory burdens and litigation risks that interfere with the ability of American workers to achieve the competitive returns and asset diversification necessary to secure a dignified and comfortable retirement.
▶ 0:16:31We published a notice of proposed rulemaking on investment selection that will assist plan fiduciaries who follow a prudent process as outlined in 20 safe harbor examples in diversifying plan investment choices from unfair hindsight second-guessing of discretionary fiduciary decisions. Our second goal is to ensure that EPSA's enforcement is fair, evenhanded, and efficient.
▶ 0:16:57We will accomplish this objective with four guiding enforcement principles, including strategic focus on the most significant harm to plan participants, fairness and proper notice to the regulated community of all enforcement priorities, and proper oversight to ensure EPSA's enforcement is consistent and uniform nationwide. And finally, ensuring that EPSA's enforcement will be timely and responsive.
▶ 0:17:23EPS's third goal is to address Orisa class action litigation abuse that has stifled innovation in plan design paralyzing conscientious plan fiduciaries who follow sound fiduciary practices. This is why we have filed a number of AMAS briefs to defend Orisa as a law of process in which independent and conflict-free plan fiduciaries have discretion and flexibility to act in the best interests of their participants.
▶ 0:17:50Importantly, we are not depriving workers of their right to sue. EPSA will ardently protect the right of participants to sue when the harm is real. Our AMA's program is decisively pro- Orisa as EPSA's job is to protect and steward America's retirement and health systems.
▶ 0:18:10We believe this threepart formula is how we deliver on President Trump Trump's goal to usher in a new golden age for Americans and how we achieve a new golden age of employee benefits. I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:18:28Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Under committee rule 9, we will now question the assistant secretary under the five-minute rule. Uh I would like to first recommend uh recognize our esteemed chairman of the full committee uh Mr. Wahlberg for his five minutes of
▶ 0:18:45Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh Mr. Romano, it's thank you for being here. I'm sure you're aware you're in an extremely important position. uh and and too often we don't really think till it's too late about the necessity of planning for the future especially in the financial area to make sure the retirement works and so appreciate your efforts to beef it up and to encourage more to think seriously.
▶ 0:19:14Um the committee wants workers along that line to save for the retirement with a peace of mind uh that they will have financial security uh during their retirement years. The question I have is what what can EPSA do to encourage 401k plan fiduciaries to adopt lifetime income solutions in their plans and how could Congress assist uh EPSA in that Thank you for that question.
▶ 0:19:45At EBSA, our job is to put out clear rules and guidance on how to follow a prudent process. We don't pick winners and losers. We don't decide what is in plans.
▶ 0:19:59But we did put out at President Trump's directive an investment selection rule in which we took 52 years of Orisa Orisa Orisa law and we affirm that Orisa is a law of process in which plan fiduciaries have discretion and flexibility to do in a responsible way what they think is right for their plan participants.
▶ 0:20:22We wanted to give them confidence that if they add lifetime income or other solutions that have been enjoyed by government workers and professors and 403b plans for years that they will have the confidence that they have the discretion and flexibility to act in the best interest of participants and then a court should give them a presumption of prudence. So that's how we've acted decisively. It's a proposed rule.
▶ 0:20:44We're in a comment period, but we hope to get many comments to help us put a great final rule that will give confidence to plan fiduciaries in
▶ 0:20:53Yeah, I would I would hope that that would would work out because the creativity that's needed to develop plans and to give opportunities for employees um from the employer is is so important. Uh good to hear. the investment decision that workers and retirees make have a profound effect on the value of their savings at retirement and through their retirement years. Can you discuss briefly the importance of in investment returns and the role that market volatility uh plays in retirement savings?
▶ 0:21:23And following along that line, how can alternative assets such as private market investments help an asset allocation fund in a 401k plan uh to mitigate market volatility?
▶ 0:21:37Thank you for that question. Under our investment selection proposed rule, we highlighted for fiduciaries the relationship between risk and reward. We mentioned modern portfolio theory which is an investment framework that maximizes riskadjusted returns through and optimal asset allocation. Diversification is the key to protect against against market val volatility. Again, we were asset neutral.
▶ 0:22:06We're not picking winners and losers, but we hope to give plan fiduciaries confidence and a roadmap to offer alternatives that may or may not be right for their plan participants. We also make give multiple examples of risk mitigation strategies that can be confidently used in Orisa plans to protect against market
▶ 0:22:29That gives them the choice. Yeah. Um, in March, EPSA published a proposed rule on fiduciary duties and selecting designated investment alternatives. The preamble to the proposed rule states, and I quote, "The goal is to alleviate certain regulatory burdens and litigation risks that interfere with the ability of American workers to achieve a dignified and comfortable retirement.
▶ 0:22:56How has litigation risk impaired innovation in retirement and health Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for raising that. I was a fiduciary liability underwriter and I underwrote some of the most creative companies in America. And what I saw is these companies are very creative in their products, including one company that was electrifying cars and putting people on with the goal to put people on on the moon and and in Mars.
▶ 0:23:24But they were riskadverse in their retirement plan. It stifles innovation because they're instead of asking what is in the best interest of planned participants, they're asking how do I keep from being sued. That's the problem that we're trying to address. That's what litigation abuse has done.
▶ 0:23:40Okay. I appreciate it. I yield back.
▶ 0:23:45Uh the gentleman yields. And now I'll call on Mr. Courtney for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 0:23:51Great. Thank you. Uh Mr. Chairman, um Mr. Ronaldowitz, I'd like to ask you about an issue on healthc care price transparency, which I think we can find some common ground. Um, earlier this year, Congress passed with a bipartisan majority, the Consolidated Appropriations Act 2026. It included a provision from a bill which I had introduced the Hidden Feis Disclosure Act, which would clarify who is a quote covered service provider for purposes of Orisa's Health Plan fee disclosure requirements.
▶ 0:24:19And as you know, the bill explicitly itemized who covered service uh providers uh are uh my colleagues, Mr. Scott and Mr. Donier, and I wrote to you about this issue a few weeks ago, and I appreciate you responded promptly. Um but I do want to get a little more clarity uh if I could uh this morning. Um as you know, all group health plan now must disclose their direct and indirect compensation to plan fiduciaries.
▶ 0:24:48And again that includes a broader spectrum than just uh PBMs. Um so can you clarify your understanding of what services would make a uh covered services provider under this provision?
▶ 0:25:00Thank you for that opportunity. Our transparency regulation focused on We put out an extended comment period in which we asked the regulated community to to give comments on how we can harmonize with your legislation. And I got a letter from you the other even yesterday and we appreciate that you said that we were in a in a good head start and and we do have common ground and and we so we just got 584 comments.
▶ 0:25:31The comment period ended yesterday and we fully intend to review those comments. I don't want to prejudge what we're going to do, but we we I heard you loud and clear in your own comment letter in which you told us that we should go bolder and broader beyond just PBMs and and so I don't want to prejudge our rule because we're following the administrative procedure act, but we do have significant common ground.
▶ 0:25:54The goal of of EPSA under President Trump's leadership is is to drive value and to and to hold health care companies accountable. never been done at EPSA before and and that's what we're doing.
▶ 0:26:08Sure. So again, but I want to just um go back and I again appreciate that you're moving forward with the PBM uh rule, but there as a another former employer. Um you know, there's a lot of other providers that um you know are covered by the statute in terms of disclosure. And I mean I could read it out here. I mean it's a about a dozen or so different groups there.
▶ 0:26:31And uh our letter you know really was looking not necessarily for regulation to cover you know sweeping regulation to cover all of them but really just to have a guidance from the department so that um stakeholders understand what their obligations are under the law which again the ink is barely dry. Uh but it again is something that has been worked on for a number of years in this committee and across Congress.
▶ 0:26:54Thank you for highlighting that. We're the first EPSA administration that ever put out transparency notice of proposed regulations and we are clearly focused on using the full power of Orisa, never been done before, to hold health insurance companies accountable, to hold service providers accountable and to drive better value and lower cost. You have my commitment. That is what we're focused on and you can see what we've already done. We we agree with you
▶ 0:27:22and I appreciate that. I guess you know there's there's been always I think a um you know claim of uncertainty in in out there in this sort of sector about whether or not they're required to disclose and that's where again I think uh our letter was really seeking to get a guidance that actually was you know pretty clear uh to to folks. So Mr. Chairman again I just ask that uh the letter which I referred to as well as Mr. Oranowitz's uh response be added to the record
▶ 0:27:49without objection.
▶ 0:27:50Thank you. Um, one other sort of uh part of your portfolio is claims denial, which again, President Trump um, you know, put out uh, in his great American health care plan that um, they they proposed requiring health insurers to publish the percentage of insurance claims they reject. Again, this is another consensus issue. The Affordable Care Act actually has language in it that mandated the same requirement uh, for insurance companies.
▶ 0:28:19um the inspector general's office in 2016 uh recommended that the form 5500 be updated to allow DO to um you know collect this information. So uh again this is a big one out there for patients and constituents of ours in terms of the just sort of sometimes arbitrary seeming denial of claims and hopefully um you know you could comment quickly if uh you know that's one of your priorities. It it is absolutely our priority.
▶ 0:28:49It's in our national priorities. We are moving EPSA from lopsided efforts against retirement plans and moving significant resources to healthcare denials and other healthc care accountability.
▶ 0:29:03The gentleman yields. And now I recognize myself for my five minutes of questioning. I was interested in your testimony. I served in the last Congress on the healthy future uh task force and what uh what I could not get was a breakdown of where every dollar goes in healthcare cost. Nobody could give me that information. Not even the former Secretary of Health and Human Services. Uh I hope that you will continue to work on that so we know where the dollars are going and how they're being used.
▶ 0:29:33The other thing that I'm interested in under Orisa is to give Orisa a waiver uh from the affordable care act uh so that it does not have to comply with all this uh stuff. I mean self- insurance is the way of the future. uh all the 50 to five uh to 500 uh uh largest companies self-insure and you know they are very pleased with what they're able to do in the marketplace.
▶ 0:30:03Uh my legislation protecting now getting on to my questions. Uh my legislation protecting prudent investment of retirement savings act ensures that ESG impact investing does not take priority over the retirement security of pension plan participants and beneficiaries. What steps has EPSA taken to reverse the harmful Biden Harris administration policies that would put impact investing for special interest over retirement security of American workers? Thank you for the question.
▶ 0:30:35I can't talk about any specific rulemaking, but I can tell you that we told the fifth circuit that that we were addressing this and and so unfortunately I can't talk about what we're doing, but we obviously believe in the exclusive purpose rule and exclusive means exclusive. Uh and for five decades, employee stock ownership plans or ESOPs uh have uh waited for reg regulatory guidance on the valuation of employer stock.
▶ 0:31:02My legislation, the retire through ownership act passed this committee unanimously by vote of 35 to zero. My legislation would adopt long-standing guidelines issued by the department of treasury for stock valuation. This legislation gives certainty to ESOP fidiciaries on stock valuation. For years, DO attempted to regulate ESOPs with litigation rather than definitive valuation guidance. How is EPSA changing uh its approach to ESOPs?
▶ 0:31:30Thank you for the opportunity to address that. I live the American dream by having ownership in an American business and we firmly in the Trump administration believe in giving maximum opportunities for Americans to have stake stakes in their companies. We are pro- ESOP. What I have done so far is we just put out guiding principles that we've been using where where we will not regulate through enforcement and until we put out the valuation guidance that Congress has asked for for decades.
▶ 0:32:01We will not secondguess planned fiduciaries in their judgments. We will be focused on the duty of loyalty. We are reviewing every single of the 90 pending ESOP cases in our office against those priorities. We are going to treat ESOPS fairly like all other retirement plans. We're ending that war on ESOPS.
▶ 0:32:21Good. Good. Thank you. Uh for years, uh pharmacy benefit managers have benefited from opaque pricing tactics while healthc care costs continue to soar. My legislation, the PBM kickback prohibition act, would prohibit PBMs from paying consultants and brokers who give trusted advice to employers and group health plan fidiciaries from taking compensation for steering businesses uh to PBMs.
▶ 0:32:47Can you talk about Epsom's work to curb PBM's abusive practices and how might Congress be able to assist you with this effort? Thank you for the opportunity to highlight our notice of proposed rulemaking on PBM transparency. We broadly defined what a PBM is. We pro broad broadly defined all types of compensation.
▶ 0:33:09We want to remove the black box for plan fiduciaries so they know what they're paying for can drive better value and get better and get lower lower cost. and we look forward to reading all the comments including from this committee. If we can do better on our final rule, we we are absolutely intend to shine a light on the blacks box of all types of healthcare pricing.
▶ 0:33:33Good. Well, thank you very much. And uh per my original comment, uh we have got to do something to compete. We got to the only way to drive down cost is competition. And we've got to create a program and I think ORISA is the perfect place to allow every small business and large businesses to self-insure and also receive a waiver uh as the unions and the faith-based community received from uh the Affordable Care Act.
▶ 0:34:03Uh so we can uh have a completely private program and it would also be great to include self-employed uh people under the ORISA laws. And I think uh uh you know that that's something I just wanted to leave with you and uh you and you got 10 seconds if you'd like to comment on that.
▶ 0:34:22We are here to provide technical assistance and anything that you that you request.
▶ 0:34:27Okay. Great. Thank you.
▶ 0:34:30All right. Next, uh Mr. Norcross, you are recognized for five minutes of
▶ 0:34:36Thank you, chairman, ranking member for uh what you do each and every day. And in spite of uh many differences that we have on this committee, there is much alignment on issues like retirement as the chairman spoke of in his meeting. But I want to uh talk about something.
▶ 0:34:57I think there is certainly uh over the last decade much focus on the silent side of health benefits and that's mental health. And if you go back just 10 years, the way not only u the citizens viewed this, how this committee and certainly uh benefits look at that. So the idea that mental health is as real and is as important as any physical ailment.
▶ 0:35:28Yet we understand that there is not par. And this is where you come into play. the PAR Act that says if you're treating the physical, you have to treat the mental and that includes one of the biggest killers for those under 25 years of age and that's the disease, the disease of addiction.
▶ 0:35:50uh we've worked together over the last few years trying to bring those health insurers to the table because as you know in the information you get um it is to find out where there is not the parity going on but as you say time and time again holding health insurers PBM and service providers accountable core issue you completely are right on that Yet when we look
▶ 0:36:20at the enforcing the parody act, I'm concerned about a number of actions this administration has changed over previous administrations where we work together on these things. It appears and I'd love to hear when we're finished here on the announcement you made that you no longer will enforce the requirements of the parody final rule.
▶ 0:36:46It seems that you're it doesn't seem it is that you are backing away some of those key elements that we do not get from health insurers and then there is no way to enforce it. There are no penalties. They get a slap on our wrist. So collecting that information yet you're backing off from that. And in addition to that, President Trump's own bipartisan opioid task force provided the department with the authority to impose those monetary penalties.
▶ 0:37:16Yet here we are going back. Would you explain to me the difference of what we were trying to do before and since the new administration has come in the backing off of those issues.
▶ 0:37:29Thank you for the opportunity to correct the record. My personal experience is I have two children that have been in eight different residential treatment facilities. Only one of that was paid for and then retroactively the insurance company said it was no longer medically necessary and then my appeal rights were taken even though I hadn't used them. So I have significant personal experience.
▶ 0:37:53This EPSA is 100% committed to knocking down every possible barrier to mental We are in litigation and so I can't talk about the comparative analyses but we restated the national priorities of EPSA for the first time in 20 years and number one on that is knocking down barriers to mental health. There are many doors. It's not just comparative analysis which I don't believe got us anywhere.
▶ 0:38:22It just created cost and burden. We are doing investigations on burdensome claim denials and medical necessity. unjustified blank exclusions for ABA therapy and medicationass assisted treatment for opioid ghost networks conflict of interest.
▶ 0:38:40If I could I only have a minute left. I appreciate it. My heart goes out to you for what so many families have gone through is watching addiction take over the lives of people they love. But the idea of you can assess and let's just assume for the sake of argument that you find they are not enforc the parody act is not being adhered to.
▶ 0:39:05So if you don't have any penalties for any of us who drive anywhere you understand that if there's a radar and a policeman out there you're going to watch what you're doing. We don't have that. We were heading that direction.
▶ 0:39:20Can I at least get from you that you will do whatever your ability gives you to do to make sure this parody act is enforced and saving the lives of whether it's your children or my children.
▶ 0:39:36You have my commitment that I will knock down every barrier to good mental health treatment for all American workers and their families.
▶ 0:39:45Thank you. and we need enforcement I yield back.
▶ 0:39:51The gentleman yields. And now I'll recognize Mr. Owens for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 0:39:56Thank you, Mr. Chair, uh for convening this very important um uh committee meeting. I look forward to hearing today from how how Employee Benefits Security Administration is working to serve American people and help them achieve more stable financial future. Uh Mr. Aronitz uh this subcommittee received testimony earlier this year stating that the retirement retirement plan participant education needed to mean meaningfully improve uh retirement decision-m.
▶ 0:40:24Uh this is because of partition participants overall financial literacy is essential to enabling invest savings and and spending decisions that are foundational to retirement planning. I'm grateful for the work that's already been done by this administration to improve uh financial literacy and stability through Trump accounts. Uh with parents giving their children treasury issued stock ownership, it will incentivize as they grow to be literally illiterate, financial literate.
▶ 0:40:50They'll also learn how to access um tax advantage savings and to participate and and benefit from the market. My question to you is uh what are the steps that retirement plan sponsors can take to improve the financial literacy of plan
▶ 0:41:05Thank you for highlighting this important issue. Whenever I speak about financial literacy and retirement, I always say three things. Start early, maximize your employer match, and diversify your investments. the important thing. But as head of EPSA, my job as I see it is to empower fiduciaries to give good education and financial literacy. Our job is is to empower the fiduciaries to do it.
▶ 0:41:32And one thing that we did in the 2000 fiduciary 2024 fiduciary rule, we saw a survey where 25% of employers were now afraid to give part participant education because of liability. We withdrew that. The SEC will monitor IAS and we will promote good education from EPSA but we're going to empower fiduciaries to do an even better job and that's what we're focused on.
▶ 0:41:59Okay. Thank you. Under the B administration of this u fiduciaries were permitted to consider the environmental so social and governance ESG impact as part of the investment decision in proxy voting. However, the American people spoken. they are more concerned about making sure their money gets the best return on investment than going toward woke investments. Uh can you tell me more about how um EBSA is working toward ensuring retirement plans are generating the best return for investments um uh for Americans?
▶ 0:42:28Thank you for identifying that. se several several things. President Trump asked us to give guidance if necessary on whether proxy advisers can can be seen as fiduciaries and we gave guidance on when and if they can be fiduciaries under the five-part test that that has been around over over 50 years.
▶ 0:42:50Importantly also our investment selection rule is designed to give a roadmap on what a prudent fiduciary process looks like, what an objective, thorough and analytical prudent investment selection looks like. And and we make clear that plan fiduciaries have discretion and flexibility to do what they think is in the best interest of plan participants. And what what what we nudge plan fiduciaries to do is to look a at the risk adjusted return net of fees. And that's their goal.
▶ 0:43:20What is in the best interest of of plan participants? And we don't necessarily know what that is in in the future. And and we want to give them the tools so they can continually in every fiduciary plan meeting ask what is in the best interest of plan participants? And right now what I'm afraid of is plan fiduciaries are asking how do I not get sued? And we have to change that paradigm so that they're asking how do I help my employees? And that might kind of lead into this next question I have.
▶ 0:43:49Under the EVSA and Biden administration was recognized to carry out punitive and and aimless investigations that went on for years uh without sign of ending. Can you tell us more about the multi-year and meaningless investigations carried under uh out under the previous
▶ 0:44:04Well, I I was a fiduciary liability underwriter and I insured thousands of plans and I paid for many of those investigations that went on for years and years. and an insurance company want to close out claims and I frustratingly couldn't close them out. So, I was a firsthand consumer of of of that type of abuse. Now, what I learned when I got to EPSA is we have really good investigators. These are really good employees and they just needed better leadership.
▶ 0:44:32And so, what we did was we put out guiding principles so that we know what we stand for and when we're looking at an investigation, we can say, well, should we do this investigation or not? We the the four-part guiding principles are to make sure that we are following Orisa that that we are not regulating by enforcement and one of the guidance is we're specifically have all investigations are now on a on a shot clock.
▶ 0:44:58Simple investigations must be done unless there's exigent circumstances in 18 months and 30 months for more complex investigation. There's always exigent circumstances. The point is is that we have management best practices in which there's accountability and and and the thing I'm most excited about is the investigators are excited to follow this guidance and they're already filed. It's a course correction that all investigators are excited about.
▶ 0:45:22We're bringing a better EPSA in which we are thoughtfully demonstrating integrity and accountability in in in in what we're
▶ 0:45:32Well, thank you so much. I'm looking forward this new chapter for young and old Americans for sure. Thank you so much and uh yel back.
▶ 0:45:39Gentleman yields and now call on Miss McBath from Georgia for her line of five minutes of questioning.
▶ 0:45:44Thank you chairman Allen and ranking member Donier and thank you to our witness today. The Employee Benefits Security Administration has the important responsibility of protecting the health benefits of more than 150 million hardworking Americans on employee sponsored health uh insurance.
▶ 0:46:04Unfortunately, a growing number of Americans who have actually put in their time at work and paid into their health care plans are not receiving the benefits, the health care benefits that they are entitled to. With the increasing complexity of the health care system, the Employee Benefit Security Administration's responsibilities have grown significantly over the years. Yet, the agency remains chronically underfunded and understaffed.
▶ 0:46:31With the president's newest budget requesting a further $10 million cut to an already overworked agency, the lack of resources at this agency means that patients continue to face cruel and unnecessary delays that limit access to necessary life-saving care.
▶ 0:46:51In the last session, Congressman Rick Allen and I sent a letter to the Employee Benefits Security Administration regarding our concerns about the role of alternative funding programs in self-funded plans under the guise of saving money. Alternative funding programs misled employers and push them to plans that ultimately exclude certain specialty drugs or deny timely coverage for covered treatments.
▶ 0:47:21These middlemen abandon patients, pushing them to patient assistant programs that are not meant for them or pressuring them to use illegal importation methods.
▶ 0:47:35Ultimately, and far too often, these alternative funding pathways fail our patients, leaving them to shoulder the full cost of their life-saving medication or experience delays that can result in harmful like a cancer patient who relies on an oral encolytic when they know other therapy actually works.
▶ 0:48:00Prior authorization deemed this medication medically necessary, but the patients alternative funding program denied coverage for the treatment, forcing the patient to jump through unnecessary hoops that caused him to miss treatment for an entire month. Or like a cystic fibros fibrosis patient who relies on a modulator therapy which is critical for treating their chronic disease.
▶ 0:48:29Because of an alternative funding program, their covered treatment was denied, resulting in a sixmonth gap in their care. Six months. Six months of waiting that resulted in irreversible lung damage that caused the patients health to deteriorate, ultimately forcing them to be hospitalized and leave their employer plan to find coverage on the
▶ 0:48:59Assistant Secretary Aronowitz, do you think that it is acceptable for an employee who is entitled to health benefits through their employer to have to wait for 6 months for life-saving
▶ 0:49:14Thank you for that explanation. I agree with you. It's outrageous. If the facts are, as you stated, that that's wrong. And I took this job to remedy exactly what you just articulated. I have challenged all of our investigators, our our great head of heaven and head of enforcement, our regional directors.
▶ 0:49:35I told them, "Find more healthc care cases to use the full power of Orisa, which includes improper claims denials and we're going to hold health care companies accountable. These promised benefits to Americans must be upheld. That's my job and I guarantee you I'm doing it." I'm glad to hear that because no one should have to wait for life-saving treatment and the reality is not everyone can wait for the lifesaving treatment.
▶ 0:50:04And while the agency is tasked with this important role that has financial and profoundly personal impacts for all those who uh in our health care system that they're in our health care system, years of underfunding and underst staffing have threatened to undermine that mission that you speak of.
▶ 0:50:24Assistant Secretary, I share your vision of making the Employee Benefits Secretary Administration more efficient and more fair so that patients are not left hanging while bills are piling up and life-saving treatments go delayed. With your commitment to improving the efficacy of the agency, I hope you will provide timely oversight into alternative funding programs.
▶ 0:50:50Their conduct hurts both employers and employee employees alike, misleading employers and leaving employees in the Patients are not getting the answers that they need. Claims continue to be denied and more Americans are left without the treatments that keep them healthy and keep them whole.
▶ 0:51:10On behalf of the millions of Americans who rely on health insurance through their jobs, it is our duty, your duty as well, to support oversight, cut through red tape, and protect patients lives. And I yield.
▶ 0:51:27Thank you. I'd now like to recognize my friend from Pennsylvania, Mr. McKenzie.
▶ 0:51:31Thank you, Mr. Assistant Secretary. I want to start by thanking you and your team for your work on the proposal of how best to expand access to an alternative investments in 401k plans. Uh it's clear that you and the secretary and everybody else on your team has put a lot of time into this proposal, including coordinating with your colleagues at the Department of Treasury and the SEC. These types of investment options have been available to pension funds for decades. And I think it's important and fair that all retirement savers have equal access.
▶ 0:52:02Uh I also share with many of my colleagues that the belief that investor protections should remain a critical focus of this proposal and in fact there are many layers of protection and fiduciaries between a retirement saver and the underlying investments being discussed here today. Can you please describe the level of scrutiny and protection when it comes to the selection of a 401k investment options offered by plan
▶ 0:52:29Thank you for highlighting our work on this. We're really proud of it. We outlined in our rule 52 years of prior guidance. Sort of gave a history lesson on what EPSA has done in the past and then we built on that and we demonstrated what a prudent process looks like with different factors. But the key of it is that plan fiduciaries in selecting for the plan menu must act objectively, thoroughly and analytically.
▶ 0:52:59and we give them for the first time real examples on how to do that with different factors whether that's how to look at fees or how to look at valuation or if there's liquidity issues. So we tried to arm plan fiduciaries so that they can confidently do their jobs to maximize risk adjusted returns for all of their
▶ 0:53:20Thank you for that. a a stated goal of your recent proposal uh was, let me say this, it it was to alleviate litigation risk associated with voluntary offering uh retirement plans to employee employees. Uh what other actions can EBSA take to help curb excessive ORISA
▶ 0:53:44Thank you for highlighting it. We are very concerned and so is the president that excessive uh litigation abuse is stifling innovation and any time someone a plan does something new they get sued even if it's a risk mitigation strategy. So what have we done first?
▶ 0:54:01At the president's directive and our investment selection rule, we re reaffirmed that Orisa is a law process straight from the statutory text in which plan fiduciaries have flexibility and discretion in choosing the investments and when they follow an objective, thorough and analytical process, they should have deference and be presumed innocent.
▶ 0:54:22The second thing we've we've done is we have filed a number of amikas briefs in cases where we think that the it needs to be reaffirmed to the judicial branch that they need to weed out the the sheep from the goats and that's their job. Only plausible claims should go forward and we have we in cases like pension risk transfers which are specifically allowed under Orisa we have reestablished and reaffirmed in these amikas briefs that Orisa is a law of process.
▶ 0:54:51Now, by one of the briefs, we were pro participant in which the 11th Circuit had created a judicially created administrative exhaustion requirement. We we came down and told the 11th Circuit, no, that's not allowed under Orisa. So, what we're trying to do, representative, is to be pro ORISA and follow ORISA wherever it goes and reaffirming what ORISA is, a process statute that does not police outcomes. It it polices a prudent process. That's what we're trying to do. It's decisively pro Orisa. Well, that's great.
▶ 0:55:20I appreciate your focus on the actual statute, making sure that, uh, everybody is following it, uh, in full accordance with the law. And so, um, I would just like to say again, I want to thank the department for all their work, uh, that they've done thus far on on all these different initiatives, uh, when it comes to alternative investments. We want to make sure that, uh, everybody uh, when they're investing in their retirement plans, they are getting the best best return they can for the risk that they want to assume.
▶ 0:55:49uh making sure that they're still protected by their fiduciaries who are doing the investments on their behalf. Uh but again opening up all the options for them I think is critically important and uh when it comes to curbing excessive litigation this is again about the employees making sure that the benefits that they have earned for their retirements plans actually go to them as opposed to going to litigation costs and legal fees uh taking money away from the fund and away from those employees and their retirements uh I think is critically important.
▶ 0:56:18And so I appreciate the focus again always on what is best for the employees and ultimately their retirement savings I think is the right focus and so I appreciate your work again. Thank you and I yield back.
▶ 0:56:29Thank you. Like now to recognize my friend from Connecticut, Miss Hayes.
▶ 0:56:35Thank you. Good morning and thank you Secretary Aronowitz for testifying today. The Employee Benefits Security Administration or EPSA is critical to promoting the health and retirement security of more than 155 million workers, retirees, and their families across the country. In your testimony, you state one of the most important ways that EPSA protects American workers is the benefits advisors program.
▶ 0:57:02The EPSA benefits advisors based pro based in the regional field office in Boston are critical to assisting constituents in my hometown of Connecticut. These individuals answer questions to help workers navigate employee benefits plans and track complaints and violations that can lead to enforcement actions to ensure employers comply with federal laws.
▶ 0:57:25The enforcement actions alone helped EP helped EPSA investigators recover more than $530 million in health, retirement, and other benefits owed to workers last year. Despite the tremendous return on investment, the Trump administration is proposing to cut the EPSA budget by 10 million in fiscal year 2027, which would lead to a continued reduction in full-time staff.
▶ 0:57:50The proposed cuts are concerning considering the number of full-time staff at EPSA has already declined from over 960 full-time employees in 200 2015 to fewer than 690 full-time employees today. The results show that their work is important. Does the administration plan to prioritize the outreach and compliance support that benefit advisors provide amid plan budget and staffing cuts? Thank Thank you for letting me correct the record.
▶ 0:58:21I agree with you. Our ben benefit advisor program helps all Americans and you correctly cite how they helped Americans last year. They help with lifesaving medicines and claim denials. They're the front lines for EPSA in helping Americans with health care denials or when retirement money is not put into the plans. We we just hired 40 new benefit adviserss. We had 74. We just added 40. And we're not done.
▶ 0:58:50We under my leadership, we're going to have more benefit advisors than ever because it's a priority. When I look at EPSA, we do outreach. We do clear regulations and we do enforcement. The number one thing we do is answer the phone with compassion when Americans need help. And thank you for highlighting those amazing employees at EPSA.
▶ 0:59:10Well, I must admit, I wasn't expecting that for an answer. That is encouraging and I truly appreciate it because these roles are really important and I'll be watching to see um ensure that we're continuing to make progress in this area because it is so important. EPSA also has jurisdiction over many laws including oversight of employer sponsored health plans under the affordable care act. It's my understanding that EPSA has previously sent benefits adviserss into community to support outreach and education efforts.
▶ 0:59:40Can you explain what role benefits advisors are currently playing in helping participants navigate healthc care market changes following the expiration of tax credits and many of the perceived cuts uh that are looming to Medicaid. Thank you for the opportunity. Our benefit adviserss their foremost job is to answer the phones and our number one job is to make sure the phones can be answered.
▶ 1:00:03We also do outreach and I have authorized every single event that our head of outreach Becky Marshand has put forward and I have encouraged her to be as thoughtful as possible to educate both inside EPSA so that we're experts and and educate the public as well. So I'm approving every single good idea that she comes forward with.
▶ 1:00:24Thank you. Um actually you've eliminated my last question which was do you plan to hire additional benefits advisors? So, I appreciate the opportunity for you to clarify the record, but I hope that I can leave you with the fact that um for many of these retirees, the number one benefit that they are concerned about is their health care and how to navigate the the landscape that we are in right now.
▶ 1:00:49So, I I truly hope that these benefits advisors are educated in those area are areas and can provide the most complete uh proactive information because it is incredibly scary as you've heard all of my colleagues down the line talk about when you have health issues and you're waiting for an answer or being denied a claim. So, those things are really important.
▶ 1:01:12Thank you for highlighting what our benefit adviserss are doing. I've told the secretary multiple times it's the most important thing done at the entire department of labor. Answering the phone with compassion to help Americans in their time of need.
▶ 1:01:24Answering the phone and providing real concrete answers or uh direction for where people can find those answers is important. Thank you.
▶ 1:01:33Thank you.
▶ 1:01:33I yel back.
▶ 1:01:34Thank you. I'd like now to recognize my friend from Missouri, uh Dr. Anders.
▶ 1:01:39Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here today. Um, as a physician, I've witnessed firsthand the financial strain that unexpected medical bills place on patients. Uh, the No Surprises Act, which was enacted during President Trump's first term, banned the practice of surprise medical billing billing, which is when patients unknowingly receive out of network care and are left with unexpected medical bills.
▶ 1:02:05Uh while the law established penalties for providers who improperly balance bill patients, it did not establish parallel penalties for insurers or for that matter any other um penalty um for or any other enforcement mechanism on the insurance side of the equation. And over the years, insurers have unfortunately abused this imbalance.
▶ 1:02:29Um Bloomberg reported last year that after the arbitration process set up by the No Surprises Act, some insurance insurers would send an updated bill to patients uh to make up the difference. Uh we've we've even seen insurers refuse to cover out of network uh services altogether such as childirth anesthesia and neonatal resuscitation. even though under the law patients should only pay that what they would owe if the provider were in network.
▶ 1:02:59Uh so essentially the insurers are violating the no surprises act by passing out of network bills on to patients and we need to have some sort of enforcement mechanism some sort of penalties when this happens and that is why my friend uh Dr. Murphy uh filed the no surprises uh act enforcement act uh house resolution 4710 which applies the same penalties that would apply to providers to insurers who break the law.
▶ 1:03:28I'm co-leading this important legislation uh which would close this critical loophole and reinforce the law's original purpose protecting patients. Can you describe the the types of complaints EPS has received regarding the No Surprises Act um violations in balance involved balance billing?
▶ 1:03:48Thank you for highlighting this important issue. Our benefit advisors have been flooded with thousands of calls from providers, sometimes individual patients. The bigger issue is less about the surprise bills. I think the the law has mostly worked, but it's not perfect, right?
▶ 1:04:07And and I just want to mention one of our enforcement national priorities that we just updated is to enforce the No Surprises Act. So, I have the team on this to far this out, but where we learn about problems on the front lines are the calls that we get, but we're getting thousands and thousands of calls a month. That's one of the reasons we're hiring more benefit advisors. We now have contractors specifically trained on this issue. And we're seeing small doctor's offices that win in the arbitration and not get paid. Yes.
▶ 1:04:36Thousands of those calls a month. We're trying to figure it out. And so we try to learn from everything. And so I ask our outreach head, what are we learning and how can we do it better? So we're all over this issue, but it's a work in progress because it's really complicated. The other thing I want to point out is that we're working on a final rule to fix some of fix some of this. Can't talk about what's in it because I can't prejudge, right? But but we know the problems. It's a mess and I like to fix things. That's what I like to do. So, we're trying.
▶ 1:05:04Excellent. No, thank you for your commitment to this issue.
▶ 1:05:07Yes. Um providers um continue to complain that they are not being paid within the 30-day statutory timeline. That's that's an understatement, a dramatic understatement. As you well know, practices cannot go years waiting for payment. You know, and I would just say even apart from this issue of the surprise billing act, um this is not just a matter of a physician standing up for fellow physicians.
▶ 1:05:32This is really a matter this is another thing that is driving enormous consolidation in our health care system. When we drive small independent practices out of out of business, uh patients are driven to more expensive uh uh care um more expensive uh places of care.
▶ 1:05:52Um does um does do you in your opinion does Epson need additional enforcement authority for Congress um you know such as monetary penalties for insure non-compliance or are there things you can do administratively or both?
▶ 1:06:11So thank you for highlighting that issue. I make it a practice not to tell Congress what to do, but it is my job to use the tools that I have with our team to enforce the laws as you execute. And so we are 100% focused on on on helping Americans that have balanced billing and helping providers and working through those issues as efficiently as possible. So that's what we're working on. And if you give us more authority, we will use it to help Americans.
▶ 1:06:39Well, thank you so much for your commitment to this important issue. I and I appreciate it and you I yield
▶ 1:06:45Thank you. Like to now recognize my friend from Pennsylvania, Miss Lee.
▶ 1:06:49Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Employee Benefit Security Administration exists to protect retirement and healthcare benefits for millions of workers, retirees, and their families. Um EPSA investigations have put billions of dollars back in people's pockets, and the agency pays for itself seven times over with the amount of money it recovers each year. But under your leadership, Mr. Toronto.
▶ 1:07:12Um, EPSA has dramatically shifted its priorities towards protecting corporate interests and limiting access to justice for workers and their families. The Department of Labor is touting self- audit programs that allow companies to conduct oversight on themselves. And DO and EMSA have filed uh AMAS briefs in favor of companies like JP Morgan Chase, uh, Seisman, and Honeywell International.
▶ 1:07:36So to be clear, you're using taxpayer dollars to advocate against workers on behalf of corporations, many of which don't even pay federal taxes themselves. But of course, none of this is surprising because in 2024, you did write in a blog post that uh quote uh the Orisa statute is a balance of the interests of plan participants and plan sponsors. With respect to bias, we are guilty as charged.
▶ 1:08:00We are advocates for America's benefit plan sponsors and biases don't just disappear when you switch jobs. Your record as assistant secretary is consistent with that statement from 2024. So Mr. Aronowitz, are you aware that under uh 29 United States Code section 551 um the purpose of the Department of Labor shall be to foster, promote, and develop the welfare of the wage earners of the United States to improve their working conditions and to advance the opportunities for profitable Thank thank you for letting me address
▶ 1:08:31this and thank you for reading my blog
▶ 1:08:33Just just really quickly if you could just if you are aware of that um of that statute that that is what it says and that is what it
▶ 1:08:42I'm aware of that statute. May I address the the concern if I'm biased for plan
▶ 1:08:47Actually, yeah. I would like to know if you've overcome your biases for benefit plan sponsors. In my job as an insurance fiduciary liability insurance company, I was allowed to have biases. As the assistant secretary of EPSA, I am executing the mission of the agency which is to protect the system and it is a balance between in a voluntary system between plan sponsors voluntarily providing benefits and then helping plan participants. That's what we're doing. All of our migas briefs are decisively pro- Orisa.
▶ 1:09:18We're not pro plan sponsor and we're not pro participant. We follow Orisa wherever it goes. We are the most pro- Orisa EPSA administration ever.
▶ 1:09:28Okay. So, while we're on the subject of just putting corporate and private interests over workers and retirees, we can debate how you have approached your biases to overcome them. I would like to talk about some of your decisions instead around cryptocurrency. Uh there is plenty of evidence on how risky it is to invest in crypto. uh which is why do previously issued guidance that cautioned fiduciaries to exercise extreme care uh prior to adding crypto to 401k plans. Yet in the past year do rescended this guidance.
▶ 1:09:58You also proposed a role providing a litigation shield for plans who would uh who would want to add crypto to workers 401ks. So this seems beneficial to people like President Trump and his family who have billions in crypto holdings. Would you
▶ 1:10:14Thank you for that question. We are not pushing crypto on Americans retirement
▶ 1:10:20Not pushing but the question was more so that the guidance that was previously suggested had been rescended.
▶ 1:10:29The the prior guidance put the thumb on the scale it which was for which was basically saying that if you put this in your plan we will audit you. That is not the role of EPSA or the Department of Labor to pick winners and losers. What we did was put out a proisa that's faithful to the statute investment selection rule
▶ 1:10:52with or without regard to the riskiness of investing uh of crypto being added to 401k plans.
▶ 1:10:57We absolutely put guidance so that plan fiduciaries can assess whether it's risky or not. A and and we put out guidance that says if plan fiduciary must objectively, thoroughly, and analytically review. So if they want to review crypto, it needs to meet our rigorous test. And I don't even know if there's a current product that can meet our rigorous test. But the point is is it's not my job to pick winners and losers. It's not my job to say what should be in a plan.
▶ 1:11:24It's my job to put out thoughtful guidance that that that is true to the ORISA statute in which it's a process. And we put out a rigorous process for any plan fiduciary to review crypto.
▶ 1:11:34Thank you. I do I only have a couple more seconds. I just want to say that people stay in jobs they might not otherwise choose because they rely on their health care benefits. People work their entire lives to retire with dignity. Workers and retirees are entitled to support from the federal agencies their tax dollars pay. It is not EPS's job to advocate on behalf of large corporations or protect Trump. I yield back. Yep. Excuse me. The gentle lady yields. And now I call on Mr. Fine from Florida for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:12:04Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here today. Um, your answers have been great. I have a couple questions. I don't know they'll be so so ridiculous, but we'll try to make them more useful. Mr. Ronowitz, this committee has championed legislation to increase transparency in the health care market. Why do you think it's important for an employer to have access to the health data of its own plan in order to design a plan that provides quality health care for lower costs?
▶ 1:12:30Thank you for that question. Right now many much of the health care spend is in a black box and the reason we want to shine the light on PBMs and other other healthcare costs is to empower plan fiduciaries to get lower cost and better value for for their plan participants. That's how we help all American workers.
▶ 1:12:50Okay, great answer. Um, what are the limits on healthcare data transparency under current law and how can we in Congress give employers the tools that they need to lower those costs?
▶ 1:13:02Thank you for letting me answer that question. When when I got to EPSA, what I saw was an EPSA that was primarily focused on retirement plans, like 90%. We changed that. And and what we're trying to do is use the power of Orisa for the first time to hold health insurance companies accountable, drive better value, and lower cost. That's what we're trying to do.
▶ 1:13:23Well, your passion is obvious and and again, I I appreciate it. Um I want to change topics to a bill of mine. So, um Mr. Ronowitz, I introduced HR6084, the Orisa litigation reform act to deal with this sort of spate of frivolous litigation which enriches lawyers and not the beneficiaries of these plans. It clarifies the burden of proof in certain fiduciary related claims. It establishes a targeted state of discovery during the early stages of litigation.
▶ 1:13:50Last year, the Supreme Court interpreted Orisa to permit any claim brought in court against an employee benefit plan for hiring a service provider to survive a motion to dismiss the claim automatically. What's the significance of a motion to dismiss in one of these, you know, Orisa lawsuits?
▶ 1:14:08The motion dismiss is the whole ball game. If the plaintiff lawyers get past the motion to dismiss, they've won because they can leverage a settlement because it costs millions of dollars to defend a case even even if it's frivolous. I would point out to you that there's been about eight trials over the last 5 years and and plan sponsors have won seven out of the eight trials. And why is that? Because many of these cases are against plans that have an excellent fiduciary process and judges are allowing cases to go forward.
▶ 1:14:37But once they see the evidence, they see many of these plan sponsors have an excellent fiduciary process and then they're vindicated. But it costs millions of dollars to vindicate yourself. And that's why we're losing and stifling innovation where plan sponsors are going to keep asking how do I keep from getting sued as opposed to thinking what is in the best interest of my plan participants? And that's that's a shame.
▶ 1:14:58And and lo losing a motion to dismiss doesn't mean that you're wrong. The motion to dismiss is sort of the lowest level of of you know of litigation.
▶ 1:15:08Well, it's the first gate, but but that gate that you go through is supposed to separate the sheeps the sheep from the from the goats. And that's not happening. And and and and that's that's the problem because courts are supposed to do their job and and remove frivolous cases from the system. And if you add the priveted transaction cases, you can now sue with no proof of wrongdoing. That's not America. You're not you're not supposed to be guilty until proven innocent. Supposed to be the opposite.
▶ 1:15:34So, I don't know how familiar you are with my bill HR684, but do you think it would close, if you do, do you think it would close the loophole for service provider contracts and employer stock ownership plans?
▶ 1:15:44We gave technical assistance on on your bill. I I it's not my job to comment publicly on your legislation, but I'm for anything that allows plan sponsors to do their jobs effectively and responsibly. So my bill also strengthens pleading standards for lawsuits brought under Orisa. Frivolous class action lawsuits. They put quick payouts against truly meritorious cases. That's what you're talking about. What's the difference between a frivolous class action lawsuit and those seeking redress for real harm?
▶ 1:16:14I mean are there examples where people really do deserve to be
▶ 1:16:18I can give you examples of a sheep from the goat in meritless cases versus case of merit. There was a case against a major healthcare company that's now over in which they had a breach of loyalty in which the CFO in discovery it was shown that he steered the target date funds to a company that he wanted to do business with the company. That's a breach of loyalty. That's a potentially a case with merit as long
▶ 1:16:40and that would have survived the motion to dismiss and they probably would have won in the end.
▶ 1:16:44In the summary judgement, the court said that they had their hand in the cookie jar. That is a case that has potential merit. You still have to prove causation, but many of the cases that are using circumstantial evidence of outcomes that the that that the plaintiff lawyers don't like, and trust me, these are these are pliff lawyer generated cases, not participant cases, in which they're using disfavored outcomes to to then bootstrap and ask the court to infer a a bad fiduciary process.
▶ 1:17:11Well, those are the ones that lack merit because under RISA, you need to show that that that that it's that it's a processbased defect.
▶ 1:17:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:17:21The gentleman yields and now I call on Mr. Tanto from California for your five minutes of questions.
▶ 1:17:28Uh thank you, Chairman Allen. Uh Mr. Toronto. Um, you have stated uh that your last organization uh that you were an employee was a quote advocate for America's benefit pensions plan sponsors uh benefit p excuse me benefit plan sponsors unquote. Uh would you characterize your former company's primary clients as America's uh benefit plan sponsors or American workers?
▶ 1:17:53I insured benefit plans.
▶ 1:17:56Benefits plans. Benefit plans. But those benefits go to American.
▶ 1:18:00I understand, sir. Uh the administration has highlighted your dedicated your decades of commitment uh as a quote unquote advocate for sponsors of employee benefit plans uh end quote not employees. Uh Mr. Ronitz, you oversee benefit plans covering 155 million people. Uh and despite your past role, are you committed to fulfilling the department's charter of protecting the wage earner?
▶ 1:18:26I absolutely am committed to to the mission of the department of labor and the mission which is of the employee benefit security administration which is protecting the retirement and health systems in America ensuring the security of the system and I'm doing that I'm the most prepared EPS assistant secretary ever to do that
▶ 1:18:46and as the wage earner you're as a focus
▶ 1:18:49we are in the Trump administration we are American worker first everything we do is for the American worker
▶ 1:18:55thank you sir It seems as though you have, but it does seem as though you have more experience protecting corporations than people. So, let's move on. Uh, let's take a look at what's happening at the Department of of of of labor. Uh, Mr. Ron, you aware that the Department of Labor's Inspector General is investigating. Are you aware that the Department of Labor's Inspector General is investigating the labor secretary for professional misconduct, including drinking on the job?
▶ 1:19:18I don't read any of the tabloid accounts. The Secretary of
▶ 1:19:21No, we're talking about We're talking about the New New York Times as a tabloid. Well, I didn't even know. I don't read the New York.
▶ 1:19:27You are high, you know, kind of fairly high level lawyer experience. It's like hard to believe that a that an assistant secretary would not be reading the New York Times. But anyway, let's go on. Mr. Ronald, are you aware of reports that several members of the secretary staff have been fired, forced to resign, or placed on administrative leave because they use taxpayer dollars to fund the secretary's personal travel?
▶ 1:19:48I'm aware of some discussion.
▶ 1:19:50So, you are aware. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Have you read the reports that have you read reports that the secretary is the subject of three civil rights complaints filed by women who allege the secretary has fostered a hostile work environment?
▶ 1:20:04No, I'm not aware. The the secretary I know is dedicated.
▶ 1:20:07So you're not aware, Mr. Oran. Thank you. Um uh Mr. Chairman, I wish to enter into uh the record uh investigative report about these complaints um of the three uh the three women involved. I ask unanimous consent for that to be under
▶ 1:20:25Without objection.
▶ 1:20:26Uh Mr. Aronowitz, how are you protecting your staff after the secretary's husband reportedly was banned from the department's headquarters when at least two staff members accused him of making unwanted sexual advances?
▶ 1:20:40I don't know anything about that other than my job.
▶ 1:20:43So, you're not protecting your staff? You've not you're not you've not not put into place any has our heads down and focused on
▶ 1:20:51Mr. Secretary, the question was whether or not you're taking any steps to protect your staff given the reports about the secretary's husband being banned from the office. Yes or no? Have you have you set in place plans?
▶ 1:21:02I am a good leader.
▶ 1:21:03So I I take it no. Is that the answer?
▶ 1:21:06No. The answer is not no. I
▶ 1:21:07You have not. Have you put plans in place, Mr. Secretary?
▶ 1:21:11I am a leader with decades of
▶ 1:21:13Secretary is not responsive. I take the answer to be no. You've not put any plans in to protect your staff. Mr. Secretary, do you have any Do you have confidence in the leadership of Secretary uh Chavez Demer?
▶ 1:21:24Yes, I do.
▶ 1:21:25You do? Thank you. My Republican colleagues were very interested in the secretary's predecessor during her scandal-free term where she fought fiercely for the American people and American workers. However, Republicans have been silent on the chaos, dysfunction, and potential fraud being perpetrated by the current secretary. um and incurring and and apparently the indifference of the assistant secretary.
▶ 1:21:51Uh American workers deserve a department of labor that is focused on protecting their rights and hard earned benefits, not the secretary's latest scandal. Thank you, and I yield back. The gentleman yields. Now I call on Mr. Manion from New York for your five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:22:10Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh thank you, Assistant Secretary. I appreciate you being here today and addressing our questions and concerns. As we all know, the work of the Employee Benefit Security Administration is wide-ranging and critical. EBSA oversees the retirement and health plans of over 155 million Americans and carries out essential investigative, educational, and enforcement activities.
▶ 1:22:34workers and retirees across the country expect the agency to protect their hard-earned benefits and diligently respond to all cases of plan mismanagement. With that in mind, I want to echo the concerns of some of my colleagues uh that they have raised about EPSA's capacity. The agency has been under considerable strain for a long time and just over the last year, the majority of this committee has taken issue with the length of EPSA investigations.
▶ 1:23:01Um we are concerned uh certainly that as the budget request is proposed there are fewer resources for the agency and therefore potentially less personnel to carry out these important responsibilities moving forward beyond the budget. Um Mr. Secretary I want to ask you about the recent changes to EPSA's national enforcement projects and priorities.
▶ 1:23:29From your testimony, I understand that EPSA has removed terminated vested participant searches from its list of priorities. What we're talking about here are folks that are entitled to a pension or have acrewed retirement savings, but maybe they switched jobs a couple times and lost track of their um that they had with a former employer. Plan sponsors often have a tough time locating these folks who are sometimes referred to as missing participants.
▶ 1:23:59Thanks to the leadership of the members of this committee, including ranking member Scott and Congresswoman Bonamichi, there was a provision in the bipartisan secure 2.0 legislation that established a retirement savings lost and found database at the Department of Labor. The database is intended to help missing participants find and recover their lost retirement savings. So, Mr.
▶ 1:24:22Assistant Secretary, did the existence of the lost and found database factor into EPSA's recent decision and can you give an update on how the database is functioning?
▶ 1:24:35Thank you for the ability to address that and and correct the record somewhat. The reason I made changes is I saw 50% of EPSA's enforcement was on a single issue. We absolutely care about missing participants, but I need to use our resources strategically. So, I moved that to health care and to and to vindicate health care benefits and rights. Uh, and I challenge the team to find a technological solution to find missing participants.
▶ 1:25:03And so, we're coming up with a way that we'll find more missing participants than ever using technology. And the lost and found database is working. It's not perfect. We found certain issues including the way and how you log in with with some government issues. We are all over it and trying to make sure that it's maximum effectiveness. But we're trying to have a parallel for plan sponsors to give their data so we can find more missing participants, but then I free up my investigators to vindicate the rights of of all healthcare participants in America. That's what we're doing
▶ 1:25:33Thank you. You mentioned 50% of the resources were focused on one certain type of activity. What what was that activity and why was it so ownorous on on um the agency?
▶ 1:25:48I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. 50% of our re investigative resources were focused on missing participants. And so I've challenged the the the the EPSA team to come up with a a tech technological way to do that work in a more efficient way that's not burdensome to plan sponsors but also finds more missing participants, freeing up all that investigatory resource to go to vindicating healthcare claims.
▶ 1:26:14Are they working on that technological fix and is there anything we can do as a legislative body to be of assistance?
▶ 1:26:20Well, I need to consider that. But there we are absolutely it's front and center. We have a task for force on it. Our head of operations Leila Mansour is is a technology expert and we're we're trying to figure it out. It's going to take a little bit of time but hopefully we've come up with a more inspired way to find missing participants and allow our investigators to do way more than just focus on two or one or two issues in their entire career.
▶ 1:26:43Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 1:26:45The gentleman yields and now I call on um Mr. Scott, our ranking ch uh chairman for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 1:26:56Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um and I'd like to ask questions about um follow up on claim denials. and you mentioned you want to plans are denying claims, we want to hold them accountable. Is that right?
▶ 1:27:15Okay. Um if um you're aware of the responsibility of plans to have a that allows consumers to internally appeal a denial of claim.
▶ 1:27:28I'm very aware.
▶ 1:27:30Okay. And the Affordable Care Act says they also have to have an external review process.
▶ 1:27:36I am aware.
▶ 1:27:37Okay. If a group group plan or health insurer violates either of these provisions, uh what kind of fine or civil monetary penalty does the law allow you to impose?
▶ 1:27:50We have very limited ability under what we currently have. But we use every possible resource to vindicate rights, including we have more enforcement against service providers so that we can strategically use our resources.
▶ 1:28:06Okay. It was a lot of words, but I didn't see anything you could actually do to somebody for violating the law.
▶ 1:28:13Well, we we are absolutely vindicating healthc care rights and and we're using all of our power under Orisa, which
▶ 1:28:20Okay. Well, what I asked you was what power do you have?
▶ 1:28:23Well, I have the power of Orisa, the greatest statute in in in employee benefit history.
▶ 1:28:29Okay. I'm not hearing anything that you could do if they if the plan you're familiar with mental health parody the requirement that mental health be covered like all other health plans problems um you're familiar with that if an insurer doesn't have mental health parody what monetary penalty can you
▶ 1:28:50I can only do what's under the law and I'm very limited as you're indicating
▶ 1:28:56okay and if um a plan refuses to cover pre-existing conditions, which you know is they can't do that. Uh what can you do about it?
▶ 1:29:08We use the power of Orisa and we're going after more service providers under the tools we have to to
▶ 1:29:15I didn't hear what tools you have.
▶ 1:29:18The tools I have are under disclosure rules and under under fiduciary process rules. If a plan refuses, if if plan refuses to cover a condition, a pre-existing condition, and a patient what happened? What's the recourse?
▶ 1:29:38Well, let me be clear. We can't tell plan sponsors what to cover and what not to cover, but
▶ 1:29:44you can't you can tell them they got to cover pre-existing conditions,
▶ 1:29:47but but what we can is enforce the law. And we do have different tools and mental health parody is one of those one of those things. if there are are is not par between the pre-existing conditions of medical medical surgical to mental health. But we're using everything we have at our disposal.
▶ 1:30:07Yeah, but I didn't hear you say anything you had at your disposal. Well, I'm telling you that I have the power of Orisa in different parts of the statute and I'm using everything I have to
▶ 1:30:19Well, if what what recourse would a participant have if a family member dies because they didn't wouldn't cover a pre-existing condition? You heard one example where they denied denied denied. What happens if the denial if the patient dies while they're waiting for Well, that's obviously problematic, but we try to we take
▶ 1:30:41Let me ask another Let me ask another question on the fiduciary rule. What is the um present status of a of a um whether or not there's a fiduciary duty to participants under the plan and whether investment advisors have a fiduciary duty when they give advice to I want to make sure I understand, but we withdrew the 2024 fiduciary rule and restored the five-part test because
▶ 1:31:12that is what Congress wants us to do. You give us authority over employee benefit plans and the SEC and state insurance commissioners will do their job of enforcing IRA and is there a fiduciary duty on the behalf of investment advisors when they give advice to plans? Is there a fiduciary standard? If they're giving advice to the plan, they're absolutely then they would be fiduciaries and they have to they have the highest duty known to law.
▶ 1:31:39Okay. And does the plan have a fiduciary duty to the participants?
▶ 1:31:43Yes, they do.
▶ 1:31:45Okay. Uh you mentioned riskadjusted Um well, I'm running out of time. Yield
▶ 1:31:56Um All right. Uh the gentleman has yielded. Uh a vote has been called in the house. Pursuant to previous the previous order, the chair declares the commit committee in recess subject to the call of the chair will plan to reconvene promptly 10 a 10 minutes after the last votes have been called in the series.
▶ 1:32:17Uh the committee stands in Okay.
▶ 2:37:44Uh the subcommittee will reconvene and now I call Mr. Sier for your five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:37:52Thank you Mr. Chairman and um to the witness. Mr. Secretary, thank you first of all for um being forth so forthright about your personal um family situation. I appreciate it. I've had a similar uh situation when it comes to behavioral health with my father and uh I didn't want to admit it years ago, but a reporter sort of forced me to and it's taught me that our stories collectively has been really helpful for us to deal in our culture and this committee with issues around mental health and
▶ 2:38:22substance abuse. So being honest about it, I think is really um admirable. So thank you for that personally
▶ 2:38:27and thank you.
▶ 2:38:28Um so I want to ask these questions in the context. We talk about this a lot in this committee and for us to have the kind of relationship that I hope for is that we can have um very legitimate political differences. But in this instance where I say this all the time, we've got the most expensive health care system in the world for developed countries with the poorest outcomes. And there's so many inefficiencies in this.
▶ 2:38:55Chairman Allen and I have talked about this a lot about whether it's PBMs or claim denials. um we're not serving Americans health and in this part of um our healthcare delivery system as a former employer uh employers uh who are responsible for contributing and want their employees to get value.
▶ 2:39:16It seems like a a simple thing to say we should really be collectively pushing for better outcomes for our investment and this is your job is a key part of that. So if you can get better results with lower costs, um I'm all for that. If we have more efficient regulation, that's less lawsuits.
▶ 2:39:36So there is a relationship there of you your job making sure that people adhere to their contractual obligations as health plans and you have a long history in this and you've studied it. Um I loved your line about problematic.
▶ 2:39:52um only delivered in a way that a really analytical person could say um about situation where somebody having a claim denied and that part's not funny that somebody died because they should have had the health care that they paid for. So in that regard, let's go right to claim denials that you've already rec uh covered. um your predecessor told us that we had one inspector uh to respond to every 14,000 uh covered health, retirement, and other benefit plans.
▶ 2:40:23Well, to the analogy of a police officer, um how do we get the bad performers? So, we know that for instance, in my research, United Healthcare was one that was really a bad performer and denying claims that traditionally were approved. And people don't have the resources to get an attorney and fight this. So, how do we make this more efficient in the sense that people are following the laws with the least amount of lawsuits or enforcement as possible?
▶ 2:40:51And you got to this a little bit just prior to my questioning on technology. And I'll be honest with you, as a member of the Bay Area delegation, I'm I've been burned by the technology. It's going to solve everything. We we know that it doesn't. It can be a really good tool. So ju just sticking with that overall metric, but when it comes to denial of claims and what you've already said, could you add to that in the context of uh the tone of my question particularly that technology may be helpful?
▶ 2:41:21And lastly, that you're going to cut staff in your budget proposal in the context of what I just told you about only one uh federal employee to respond to 14,000 plans. So I'm all in. I I believe that you want to make it more efficient, including delivery of services and quality of care, but how are you going to do that? And I will just say you're going to be back in front of this committee in this Congress and in the next.
▶ 2:41:49Um, so I'm going to hold this to you months from now uh in terms of asking you, well, how did that work? Did we get some performance standards improved?
▶ 2:42:00Thank you for the opportunity to address that. We're trying to think strategically how can with the resource even if you gave me a thousand more investigators I'm still not going to have enough if you're looking at number of of plans or participants to number of investigators.
▶ 2:42:16So we have to be strategic and so we've asked our investigators and our head of investigations Khalen McKe is going after more service providers and healthcare companies because they they represent thousands of plans and then millions of participants. We had a recent settlement with a major company and we helped millions of participants. So, we're trying to be more strategic with with the resources we have and this goes to parody too.
▶ 2:42:41So, I'm just going to let you know I'm going to bring this up again and I expect you when you come back here and I'm happy to have a relationship where we can talk uh collaboratively and I think Mr. Allen and I will do that in a bipartisan way um to figure out how we can do this on this subject matter on denials but also on the parody issues. So
▶ 2:43:02I cannot wait to show you what we're going to do to break down barriers to mental health and what we do on mental health par. Just give me a chance. I I need more time.
▶ 2:43:11Okay, I yield back.
▶ 2:43:13Right, the gentleman yields. Now I'll call on Mr. Growthman for his five minutes of questioning.
▶ 2:43:23right? Oh, I gota ask you some other questions, but I don't want to be done until I ask about mental health parody. Um, Mr. Anowitz, I introduced uh HR the form 5500 filing simplification act to simplify annual reporting requirements for employee benefit plans. No one is form 5500. I used to do taxes. They're a pain in the butt. 5500 is a horrible form.
▶ 2:43:52Currently, plans must request extensions to receive an extra two and a half months to file their automatic their annual returns. This legislation would eliminate that requirement by automatically extending the filing deadline. The legislation also specifically allows for electronic signatures on the report and the schedules that are included. Would this legislation provide relief for employers and eliminate red tape?
▶ 2:44:19It's not my job to comment publicly on on legislation, but we are pleased to give technical assistance on that. I would also tell you we have a task force on looking at the form 5500, which has not been modernized in decades.
▶ 2:44:34Great. Uh, thank you for your response. I'd like to enter into the record letters of support for HR 7362 from the CHRO Association, NFIB, the American Benefits Council and the Small Business Council of America. Thank you.
▶ 2:44:50Without objection.
▶ 2:44:52Now, my my final uh question is or I got one more question, two questions. My final question is, as you know, health care costs continue to rise and provider consolidation is one of the main drivers. Perverse economic incentives have driven hospitals to acquire provider offices and incorrectly bill for services.
▶ 2:45:13What should be done to ensure that hospitals are not allowed to tack on hidden facility fees and upcharges build to commercial payers?
▶ 2:45:25We intend to use our enforcement authority to investigate all types of of of improper denials or or improper treatment and not not standing up to the promised benefits on the contracts. That's what we intend to do.
▶ 2:45:41Okay. And I talked about mental health parody and mental health is very controversial. I just had my own little subcommittee. We had a hearing. It seems like the mental health profession is out of control with people overdrugging kids. Uh just shockingly overdrugging them, putting them on uh drugs that are addicting that they might be on for 20 years. them and tell the kids they are addicted when they put them on.
▶ 2:46:05It seems to me in a free country that if I've got a business, I shouldn't be forced to pay for a profession that at least I believe is out of control. uh will you help provide us with information or something and see whether it whether we should continue down this path of forcing individuals or forcing um uh companies anybody to pay for these mental health benefits if we feel the mental health
▶ 2:46:36profession is a little bit out of control over medicating and quite frankly excessively liberal
▶ 2:46:43the beauty of the voluntary benefit benefit system is all plan sponsors have a choice. I do want them to pro provide quality mental health benefits. But if there's anything EPSA can do to educate employers on how to make good decisions, then we will try to figure out what to
▶ 2:46:59What if I've got what I'm an employer and I just don't think much of these people. I'd rather have people go to their priest or read a book or something else or
▶ 2:47:07employers employers have the right not to provide benefits. I do hope though that they provide quality benefits for patients that want them.
▶ 2:47:18Okay. Um how about um the federal government like on Medicaid and stuff? Should they have to should should my tax dollars have to go to people or should we put limits on these mental health benefits particularly after we have all this evidence that these mental health professionals are overprescribing drugs to young people and old people too for that matter.
▶ 2:47:43I don't have an opinion on that, but I am a believer that there are quality mental health benefits for American workers and and and and so I I don't know enough about what you're talking about. Okay. Well, you should familiarize yourself. I'll try to get you some books or something on the topic. Uh, and we have a little more respect for the idea that maybe mental health professionals are are not all they're cracked up to be.
▶ 2:48:05And sometimes they wind up putting very young people in a position in which they are addicted to the drugs and uh can wind up screwing up their whole life quite frankly. So, thank you for allowing me my full five minutes, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:48:21Uh, the gentleman yields. Thank you. And uh now I would like to recognize the ranking member for his closing remarks.
▶ 2:48:29Uh thank you, Mr. uh Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you, assistant secretary. I've appreciated the hearing. Um and as I said, I look forward to working together for you. We could really do a lot of good work for the American public. And I will say this too as a both a policy maker for many years at every every level of government um business owner but also a consumer having been a survivor of stage four cancer and a month in ICU.
▶ 2:48:55Um and my primary care doctor who's a good friend tells me I'm not supposed to be here. So I appreciate um both my good fortune but also the the Dickens aspect of our health care system which in many ways is the best and in a lot of ways the very worst. Trying to negotiate the health care system um even with a lot of resources is a challenge for people and it's so inefficient.
▶ 2:49:21So I look forward very much forward to working with you and the chairman to see if we can change that situation. Um, and as you know, Americans are struggling to afford everything from groceries to gas, health, health care is the number one uh reason why individual Americans declare bankruptcy. Uh, so we've got to stop that.
▶ 2:49:40The crisis under this administration um has become so urgent that Americans are tapping into their retirement savings at an increased rate and resorting to selling their plasma as I said in my opening. So those kind of situations I very much look forward to changing uh knowing that you work in this administration. That doesn't mean we can't work together particularly in this type of instance.
▶ 2:50:02So with that um not not to be redundant but just closing on we're going to continue this conversation and it's my hope uh that our relationship goes forward. we can collectively look at some real positive outcomes so that that person who was denied that was mentioned by one of my colleagues um under a pre-existing condition who ended up dying that we will eliminate those kind of situations so that that person can have the benefit that I have that I can sit here and say I'm not
▶ 2:50:32supposed to be alive but I'm here because people work to make the system work better for individual Americans and their families and I look forward to working with you and your team so that we can have that legacy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Abeck.
▶ 2:50:47I thank the ranking member. Uh without objection, I will enter in the record statements from the employeeowned SC corporations of America, the ESOP Association, and the Orisa Industry Committee. Uh Mr. Secretary, thank you again uh for your testimony. Uh this committee remains committed to ensuring that health and retirement benefits actually work for American families.
▶ 2:51:12Americans work hard to save for retirement and they deserve peace of mind that their savings are being managed with maximum performance in mind and not politics. Healthcare costs continue to rise and it's time that we as as as a ranking member said, it's time we shed a light on hidden and deceptive pricing with real transparency that promotes competition and brings down costs for American families. As I said in my opening uh questioning, uh we have to have competition in healthcare.
▶ 2:51:43And the best way I know to do that is give Orisa and and also self-employed folks the opportunity to go and self-insure and um and and give them a waiver from the uh compliance requirements of the Affordable Care Act. Um, employers need access to health care data to allow them to design cost-effective, high-quality health plans.
▶ 2:52:06Another driver of health care costs is provider consolidation and perverse economic incentives that have driven hospitals to acquire provider offices and bill incorrectly for services. Obviously, you know, we are doing everything we can to deal with waste. In fact, the vice president is in charge of that, I understand, and deal with waste, fraud, and abuse. This committee has championed legislation to increase transparency and give employers the tools they need to lower cost.
▶ 2:52:35We will continue our work to cut red tape and expand access to more choices and better options for families and retirees. Simply put, we are working to put the American workers at the center of the system and ensure they have access uh to the benefits they deserve. Again, thank you, Mr. Secretary, uh for taking the time to testify before this subcommittee today. Without objection, there being no further business, the subcommittee stands adjourned.