▶ 0:19:59Of so many was so very sad last week to hear about the passing of our former colleague, representative david mckinley. Um. David was the consummate legislator and a tremendous human being. He, uh, had so many interests, and we bonded over both being engineers and enjoyed that work together. Um, here on the subcommittee, he served as the leadership team rancor chair and then rancor for me.
▶ 0:20:26And, um, you know, there were certainly policy disagreements that we had, but there were places also of common interest and concern. And we worked tirelessly to move issues along in that capacity. Um, many great efforts over the years promoting energy efficiency, addressing opioid addiction, providing hope for people with rare diseases, preserving our heritage areas, and many more.
▶ 0:20:55Most of all, I I'll recall and always remember how much he loved his district. Um, we hosted each other in our respective congressional districts, and he welcomed me into his home as a colleague and I believe as a friend. And, uh, you know, he fought for his constituents, for his area, for this country. And, um, I really respect that, uh, I extend my deepest, deepest condolences.
▶ 0:21:26Condolences to his widow, mary, and their family. And, uh, may he rest in peace. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman for that. And I too, um, appreciated his service. He was, uh, a mining engineer, and I worked, as I said, for a couple of engineering companies, and he was one of these quiet guys that got a lot done. So if, um, if we may, uh, we'll just take a moment of silence and then we'll begin our hearing.
▶ 0:22:08Subcommittee on environment will now come to order. The chair recognizes himself for an opening statement. Good afternoon, and thank you all for joining us for today's very important hearing about how us environmental laws impact critical mineral supply chains. Our national security and economic growth. Our country has a rich bounty of natural resources, and for most of the 20th century, the united states was the leader in producing and refining critical minerals.
▶ 0:22:36Over the past several decades, china has aggressively sought to dominate the global market for critical minerals with dire consequences for our national security. China is now responsible for almost exclusively producing about two dozen critical minerals that our national security and defense depend on, and most of the so-called black mass that is recovered from lithium ion batteries is shipped back to china for recycling. Today, april 22nd, is recognized as earth day.
▶ 0:23:04It is fitting that we are discussing how the move of critical supply chains to china has coincided with the enactment of multiple environmental laws in the us, where we have seen improvements in our environment. But at what cost are our manufacturing, economy and national security? President trump has issued several executive orders to focus the federal government's attention on these risks, and to have all departments and agencies working together to reshore the domestic critical mineral mining and processing supply chains. My bill, h.r.
▶ 0:23:354370, the securing america's medical supply act, would codify these policies to support domestic critical minerals mining and processing. As we own the energy and commerce committee, consider legislative reforms to the toxic substances control act. The recent conservation recovery act and other environmental laws. We should work together to find solutions to support the reshoring of the entire critical minerals supply chain.
▶ 0:23:59It will make little sense for us to support increased critical mineral mining in the us, if we are not also supporting the other parts of the supply chain, from the manufacture of the chemicals and energy needed to process critical minerals, to the facilities needed to recover and recycle these valuable commodities on the back end, on the back end.
▶ 0:24:18Given our broad jurisdiction, the energy and commerce committee is well positioned to advance common sense legislative reforms to ensure that the united states has the tools it needs to both produce and process critical minerals in this country. We have an excellent panel with us today to discuss the challenges in securing domestic supply chains for critical minerals. First, we have Mr. chris lehman, the chief development officer for principal mineral, which is working to build out the domestic supply chain for critical minerals. Mr.
▶ 0:24:47Lehman served as the director of the defense production act title three program during the first trump administration and helped to set up the office of strategic capital. Second, we have doctor ul baya spiller, a fellow in and the transportation program director with resources for the future.
▶ 0:25:07Next, we will hear from jane neal, senior vice president for amg vanadium, which is working to secure domestic supply chain for vanadium, a critical mineral that is used to harden steel and in a variety of aerospace applications. Finally, we'll hear from josh grushkin, associate general counsel for redwood materials, which works to recover critical minerals from used batteries. Mr. griffin has decades of experience as a lawyer and consultant, and working on complicated chemical safety and recycling issues.
▶ 0:25:37Thank you all for being here. The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the subcommittee, the gentleman from new york, Mr. tom cole, for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you, Mr. chair, and happy earth day to everyone. I can remember that first earth day in 1970 when americans, especially young people, came together to celebrate our shared home and to raise awareness for the need to better protect it. Back then, we had big problems threatening our public health and our economy.
▶ 0:26:03Rivers on fire, thick smog poisoning our lungs, and pcbs dumped into our waterways. It is not hard to understand why bipartisan majorities in congress have worked together to address these issues, and no one can deny the success of the laws born out of that moment. But today, we face another generation of environmental threats, climate change, pfas and plastic waste, to name a few.
▶ 0:26:27So as we gather together on this earth day, rather than examine how we can work together to solve these challenges, majority would prefer to discuss how our successful legacy environmental laws are failing us. That is the completely wrong approach, I believe, to frame a conversation that I truly believe is worth having. Critical materials are indeed important. We need more of them.
▶ 0:26:51We should be seeking to reduce our reliance on unreliable foreign supply chains that may have security or ethical concerns. We should be promoting ways to raise the bar for environmental, labor and human rights standards to ensure that these materials are sourced responsibly, regardless of where the extraction and processing occurs. When we enter into bilateral agreements.
▶ 0:27:15We should be requiring foreign nations to raise their standards to match ours, rather than having congress consider how to lower our standards to match these competitors. It is why I have long called for increasing the transparency and traceability of our critical materials supply chains to identify problems with overseas minerals and to hold bad actors accountable. I have no reason to doubt the motivations of members of the majority.
▶ 0:27:39I believe that they believe promoting more secure, critical mineral supply chains is a national security and economic competitiveness imperative. But if that is true, then those members should be much more willing to embrace policy priorities supported by house democrats meeting us halfway on areas where we can agree to legislate meaningful and, yes, durable policy.
▶ 0:28:03Unfortunately, over the past 16 months, we have witnessed congressional republicans and the trump administration repeal major incentives and regulations that were already working to reduce demand for domestic critical materials. That includes the republicans repeal of the 30 day clean vehicle tax credit, which derived up to one half of its value from a vehicle's use of an american made battery with compliant mineral components.
▶ 0:28:28Additionally, the trump administration has terminated hundreds of millions of dollars in grants to domestic battery manufacturers. The uncertainty that has been created by these decisions has resulted in the cancellation of tens of billions of dollars of private sector investments intended to build a domestic clean energy industry to compete with china. These ideologically driven actions are making our supply chain vulnerabilities worse, plain and simple.
▶ 0:28:56Instead, we will still consider this majority's preferred solution to every industrial challenge repealing our nation's environmental and public health laws. It is tiresome. It is not getting us any closer to enacting meaningful or durable federal policy. So instead, I would recommend that we have a conversation about how federal laws can play a constructive role in achieving our shared goals.
▶ 0:29:21In my view, that could start with a national extended producer responsibility program for lithium ion batteries and e-waste. Every expert agrees that recycling can address a significant part of our needs. Once we have gone through the troublesome efforts of importing critical materials by imposing collection, reuse and recycling requirements, we can ensure that those materials stay here in the united states and displace the need for additional imports in the future.
▶ 0:29:49I will now suggest that negotiating such a bill would be easy. Doing serious legislative work never is. But we need to start somewhere, and the sooner we can move past the notion that simply waiving environmental protections will single handedly unleash our domestic critical mineral industry, the sooner we can begin work on policies where we may be able to find common ground.
▶ 0:30:11So on this earth day, I want to again encourage us to consider just how the next generation of environmental laws can play a role in addressing some of the biggest public health and economic threats facing our nation. Just as those members did back in 1970 and the 70s that followed. With that, I thank you, Mr. chair, and yield back. >> thank you gentlemen. Um, the chair will recognize the chairman of the health subcommittee, Mr.
▶ 0:30:40Morgan, to give an opening statement on behalf of the chairman of the full committee, Mr. guthrie. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate it. Chairman guthrie is tied up on the floor, so I will be reading his opening statement to the committee that he previously drafted. Good afternoon, and thank you to our witnesses. And thank you, chairman palmer, for holding this hearing. I just want to take a minute to recognize my friend.
▶ 0:31:02And I can say this along with brett, my friend, the gentleman from alabama, for his leadership on critical mineral issues and for sounding the alarm that our national security and economic prosperity are at risk if we do not have reliable domestic sources for these important materials.
▶ 0:31:18Winning the race to ai dominance will depend not only on having access to critical minerals that go into semiconductors and other advanced technologies, but also on access to the chemicals needed to manufacture, refine and recover these critical minerals in the united states, rather than having to rely on china. Many of our nation's environmental laws were enacted more than 50 years ago, and have not kept pace with the current economic and geopolitical conditions.
▶ 0:31:47The energy and commerce committee is leading the way in working to modernize the toxic substances control act, tosca and other environmental laws so that we can meet the challenges posed by china and other countries, while also continuing to protect our environment. Even though tosca was updated ten years ago, it has become clear that the law is not working as needed.
▶ 0:32:13We need to maintain a strong manufacturing base in the united states, and that includes the ability to manufacture our own chemicals and produce other critical materials, all of which are essential for national defense and economic security. I look forward to hearing from our panel of witnesses on their experiences navigating these laws and their ideas for how we can regulate, excuse me, how we can reduce regulatory burdens and continue to have a healthy environment. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 0:32:44Chairman, and I yield back. >> thank you gentlemen. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from california, doctor ruiz. Give an opening statement on behalf of the ranking member for the full committee, Mr. pallone. Recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. These are the remarks of ranking member frank pallone on this earth day. I would like to take a moment to commemorate our bedrock environmental laws that keep our air clean, our drinking water safe, and our lands free of contamination.
▶ 0:33:15Despite what the title of this hearing implies, we do not have to choose between growing our economy and preserving the planet. Our country's most fundamental environmental and public health laws help us lower energy costs and boost our economy, all while combating pollution and the climate crisis. As it relates to the topic of today's hearing. It is possible to shore up our critical materials supply chains without compromising those same environmental and public health protections.
▶ 0:33:44Democrats support the responsible and sustainable build out of our domestic critical materials supply chains. It's important for our energy, economic and national security, and necessary for the clean energy transition. That is why democrats secured important down payments in the bipartisan infrastructure law and the inflation reduction act.
▶ 0:34:05Together, these laws included billions of dollars in federal investments to strengthen our critical materials supply chains, create jobs, boost american manufacturing, and lower costs for hard working families. For example, the bipartisan infrastructure law included $7.9 billion for battery materials processing, manufacturing and recycling.
▶ 0:34:27It also directed epa to develop best practices for battery collection and voluntary labeling guidelines to help grow our circular economy for critical mineral materials. The inflation reduction act included tax credits for electric vehicles, domestic or ally sourced critical materials for batteries and domestic battery manufacturing to expand our capacity and boost our supply chain resiliency.
▶ 0:34:54Instead of building on this important work, republicans have taken a wrecking ball to many of these important demand drivers. They have canceled clean energy projects, programs and incentives and in the process destroyed downstream manufacturing. That is an essential facet to bolstering critical materials supply chains.
▶ 0:35:13For example, due to the republican attacks, clean vehicle and battery projects projects accounted for more than $21 billion in lost investment in 2025, needlessly dampening demand for critical minerals would jeopardize our ability to attract and grow domestic critical material operations. Republicans continue to talk about the very threat from china, but their policies are misaligned.
▶ 0:35:41The rest of the world, particularly china, is investing in the clean energy economy, more so now after trump's war in iran. China has created a vertically integrated model centered on supply and demand for clean energy technologies like solar and batteries, giving them a stranglehold over the world's downstream, midstream, and upstream supply chain for critical materials.
▶ 0:36:06If we want to get serious about combating china's dominance over the critical material supply chain, republicans and the trump administrations need to stop their assault on homegrown clean energy. Their clean energy rollbacks undermine our efforts to lead the global clean energy transition, leaving the world to rely on china for critical minerals and exposing us to geopolitical supply chain risks.
▶ 0:36:30To change this dynamic, we need a strong domestic market for clean energy technologies so that companies are willing to make long term investments in this sector instead of scapegoating environmental laws. Congress must build on democratic investments to create a domestic market for critical minerals, bolster domestic supply chains, create jobs, and fuel a clean energy economy.
▶ 0:36:56We must also strengthen our domestic capabilities to reduce our reliance on foreign sources. We must grow and cement our relationships with our friends and allies abroad to develop and access new critical mineral supply chains, also known as friend shoring.
▶ 0:37:14The united states must invest in the processing of critical materials and battery recycling to increase the domestic supply of these resources, and we must rely on and invest in american ingenuity in creating innovative solutions that reduce the need for extraction, like innovative battery chemistries.
▶ 0:37:33I welcome a productive conversation today about strengthening our critical materials supply chains, but democrats will not entertain the idea that we must roll back important environmental protections to do so. Thank you, Mr. chairman. And with that, I yield back the balance of the time. >> thank you. Gentlemen. We now conclude with member opening statements. The chair would like to remind members, pursuant to the committee rules, all members opening statements will be made part of the record.
▶ 0:38:03If you want to thank our witnesses for being here today and taking time to testify before the subcommittee, the witnesses will have the opportunity to give an opening statement, followed by a round of questions from the members. Our witnesses for today are chris lehmann, chief development officer, principal mineral doctor spiller, fellow and transportation program director, resources for the future. Jane neal, senior vice president, emg, vanadium, and josh gutkin, associate general counsel, redwood materials.
▶ 0:38:32We appreciate you being here today. I now recognize Mr. lehmann for five minutes to give an opening statement. >> chairman palmer, ranking member tom cole, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Serve as the chief development officer, principal mineral emission focused strategic materials platform dedicated to forging resilient U.S. supply chains.
▶ 0:38:57I have the privilege to work with a team of patriots operating at the intersection of capital markets, skilled industrial development, and strategic materials supply chains essential to our national and economic security. My motivation to execute our mission at principal mineral comes from my prior service in government at the pentagon. I served as the director of the defense production act, title three program focused on addressing key shortfalls in the domestic industrial base.
▶ 0:39:20I also served as the deputy director of the office of strategic capital, which utilizes debt based investment tools to attract and scale private capital investment into critical supply chains for national security. In both of these jobs, strategic material supply chains and strategic risks posed to our nation by the glaring gaps within them were front and center.
▶ 0:39:41The first point I'd like to make is that strategic materials, be it critical chemicals, rare earths, copper or a multitude of others, are not only foundational for the defense industrial base, but for the entire modern economy. Us leadership in these markets will be essential to shaping our nation's long term economic competitiveness and resilience. Strategic materials are embedded in nearly every sector, driving growth today.
▶ 0:40:07Energy infrastructure, advanced electronics, telecommunications, transportation and artificial intelligence. The scale of dependance is significant. According to the us geological survey, the us relies on imports for over half of its supply of more than 40 critical minerals, and is fully import dependent for at least a dozen inputs like copper, rare earth elements and specialty metals are essential to cause everything from data centers to grid systems to consumer technologies.
▶ 0:40:33At the same time, global markets for these materials are often characterized by concentrated production, limited transparency, and periods of significant price volatility. In industries where projects require billions of dollars and years to develop. That volatility has real consequences when future pricing and supply conditions are difficult to model. The cast of the cost of capital raises, investment slows, and production capacity does not get built.
▶ 0:41:00Second, strengthening the supply chains requires a coordinated, system wide approach, not isolated policy actions. The core challenge is not simply resource availability. It is whether the us can create the conditions under which capital will be committed to building industrial capacity across the value chain and at scale. That depends on alignment across several interconnected factors. Regulatory clarity and permitting timelines. Aligning policy tools to support long term investment.
▶ 0:41:30Access to long duration patient capital coordination across supply chain segments, and consistency in environmental and operating standards. When these elements work together, investment becomes viable, timelines compress and capacity grows. When there are misaligned, projects stall even when demand is strong in technology is proven.
▶ 0:41:52Third, regulatory clarity and consistent environmental standards are central to enabling that system and to attracting long term investment. The united states should maintain strong environmental protections as essential for public trust and long term sustainability. But from the perspective of developers and investors, the defining issue is predictability. Today, regulatory processes are often fragmented across agencies. Timelines are uncertain, and outcomes can vary.
▶ 0:42:20When regulatory pathways are clear and consistently applied, investors are willing to commit long duration capital. When they're not, projects are delayed or do not move forward at all. At the same time, consistent environmental and labor standards, both domestically and across allied supply chains, ensure that growth does not come at the expense of responsible production.
▶ 0:42:42They also help prevent a shift of activity to jurisdictions with weaker protections, which ultimately undermines both environmental and economic objectives. Finally, innovation and commercialization will determine whether the us can compete at scale in these markets. The us has competitive advantages in research and development, and the deepest, most trusted and liquid capital markets in the world.
▶ 0:43:04The markets that can fund the transition from r&d to commercialized innovation and industrial capacity policy makers have the opportunity to set positive conditions that will unleash these competitive advantages. To build the strategic materials supply chains our nation needs. In closing, leadership and strategic materials markets will be determined not by any single single project or initiative, but by the strength and coherence of the overall system. The us has a clear opportunity to lead if the system is aligned.
▶ 0:43:34Capital will flow, capacity will be built, and the us can establish durable leadership in these sectors for decades to come. Thank you and I look forward to your questions. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes doctor spiller for five minutes. >> chairman palmer, ranking member, tonko and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is bias spiller.
▶ 0:44:02I'm a fellow in transportation program director at resources for the future. The views I'm expressing today are my own. Building a domestic critical mineral supply chain is challenging, and the difficulty is not explained by any single factor. In my remarks today, I'll cover four key barriers to scaling domestic domestic supply. Address why weakening environmental safeguards won't solve them, and discuss four policy options that can support the the domestic industry while still protecting communities.
▶ 0:44:33So let's talk about the barriers to building a domestic critical mineral supply chain. First, it's more expensive to extract and process minerals in the united states than in other regions, in part because key inputs like labor, electricity, and construction materials cost more here. And while environmental regulations can raise costs, they're generally not the primary cost driver. Second, domestic producers face global prices that are often low and frequently volatile.
▶ 0:45:02This creates an investment risk that domestic domestic producers cannot control. And importantly, low prices are often artificially low because they reflect unpriced environmental and labor harms of production. When those harms are not internalized, the global price signal undercuts firms that are trying to operate responsibly. Third permitting times are long, but the evidence suggests that eliminating community engagement to speed up timelines is not a shortcut.
▶ 0:45:29In fact, reduced engagement can increase the likelihood of litigation after permits are issued, potentially lengthening timelines rather than shortening them. And fourth, we have a workforce and know how challenge. After decades of limited domestic activity, we have gaps in trained labor and institutional expertise.
▶ 0:45:51Capacity constraints show up in industry, and recent staffing shortages in federal agencies reduce the government's ability to support mapping, permitting, regulatory review and innovation. Given these barriers, weakening environmental protections will not create a viable domestic supply chain. The binding constraints are larger and more structural, and these include cost differentials, price volatility, missing skills and capacity, and long development timelines.
▶ 0:46:20But beyond that, environmental safeguards are part of the competitive advantage of producing here and that they help ensure that the supply chain is sustainable and socially legitimate and well-designed. Environmental rules can encourage innovation, including process improvements that can reduce emissions and sometimes even reduce costs. Strong standards can support workforce recruitment and retention because people are more likely to live and work where air and water are clean and safety risks are managed.
▶ 0:46:50Finally, healthier environments means a healthier workforce, reducing illness and absenteeism, and increasing productivity. But for these laws to support rather than hinder the development of the supply chain, we need strong governance. And that means a well staffed and well funded public workforce that can implement the rules consistently and without unnecessary delays.
▶ 0:47:13So the question really comes down to what are the policies that can most effectively move the needle to support the development of a domestic mineral supply chain? So first, let's focus on improving permitting efficiency, not by skipping steps, by running better processes. And this can include stronger interagency coordination and more concurrent reviews. Second, let's invest in workforce and technical capacity.
▶ 0:47:37And this includes things like state and regional training initiatives, targeted support for higher education, and ensuring federal agencies have the staffing they need to support the industry and implement laws effectively. Third, let's invest in r&d and commercialization. Innovation can lower costs, reduce environmental impacts and make the us more competitive. And finally, let's focus on connecting the upstream with the downstream demand and the supply chain.
▶ 0:48:05If downstream manufacturers have stable expectations of demand, they can invest and enter into offtake agreements that provide long term price and demand certainty for upstream mineral producers. Those agreements reduce risks on both sides of the supply chain, helping to stabilize domestic markets and supporting manufacturing jobs nationwide. In short, building a domestic mineral supply chain requires recognizing its true constraints.
▶ 0:48:31Policies like permitting improvements, workforce investment, innovation support and strong demand linkages are likely to do more to grow domestic supply than weakening environmental safeguards, and they can do so while protecting communities and supporting long term competitiveness. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes miss neal for five minutes.
▶ 0:48:58>> thank you, chairman palmer, ranking member tonko and members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today. I'm jane neal, senior vice president at amg vanadium, an ohio based manufacturer. Amg vanadium is the only domestic producer of ferrovanadium supplying approximately 40% of the us market for this critical mineral that is essential to steelmaking for infrastructure, energy, transportation and defense.
▶ 0:49:24The balance of us demand is imported, with 75% of global production concentrated in russia and china. Amg recycles petroleum refinery waste to reclaim vanadium, but we are not merely a waste processor, we are critical minerals company and a strategic domestic manufacturer. In 2022, amg commissioned a $300 million facility to expand capacity to upwards of 75% of us demand.
▶ 0:49:51Meanwhile, others are exporting the same material for vanadium reclamation overseas, including to asia. Despite this, current interpretations of the regulations threaten amg's ability to operate after 2031. Approximately 90% of vanadium is used in steel making, which is amg vanadium's principal market.
▶ 0:50:14The remaining 10% is used as vanadium oxide, including in growing applications as electrolyte in large scale energy storage that supports renewable energy. The language that amg operates under uses vague terms such as legitimate recycling, leaving regulated companies subject to the interpretation of regulators. For more than 20 years, ohio epa has issued variances recognizing amg's operations as legitimate recycling.
▶ 0:50:44Those variances have long enabled amg to operate safely and lawfully in this environment of duplicative and vague regulations. The issue arose when epa region five staff adopted interpretations that differed from the past 20 years. In 2019, amg received a variance issued by ohio epa after us epa region five review. This allowed amg to begin construction on the $300 million expansion facility.
▶ 0:51:13After operations commenced, us epa reversed its position, advising ohio epa that amg's operations did not represent legitimate recycling. They directed ohio epa to revoke amg variances, which would have left the company unable to operate under pressure from then senator brown and ohio epa region five settled on a position not to allow renewal of the variances after 2031.
▶ 0:51:40The core problem is a lack of clarity in the regulations, not a lack of environmental controls. Ohio has ensured that the variance is as protective of human health and the environment as a permit, yet changing interpretations by federal staff now threaten amg's operations. Rick needs clarification and modernization. Not weakening the loss should clearly support the safe domestic recycling of spent petroleum.
▶ 0:52:08Catalyst for critical mineral recovery, and distinguish legitimate domestic recyclers from disposal operations. And it should remove duplicative regulations where other programs, including the clean air act, already provide protection. The principle is simple rick should favor recycling when human health and environmental protection are maintained, while amg's position is supported by the region five administrator. Administrative interpretations are not durable.
▶ 0:52:39National interests cannot depend on shifting agency views. Endurance comes from statutory clarity. Amg has invested hundreds of millions of dollars to recycle hazardous waste into valuable materials without environmental harm. Processing over 500,000 tons of spent catalyst and recovering over 50 million pounds of vanadium. Modernizing rcra would protect environmental goals while advancing strategic, economic and national security interests.
▶ 0:53:09Congress should ensure that legitimate recycling is encouraged. Valuable materials remain domestic and ambiguous. Language cannot be used against responsible recyclers. Rick should allow variances and exemptions to work together and eliminate duplicative overlap. Where other environmental programs already improve. Impose protective controls.
▶ 0:53:28The spent catalyst recycling and critical minerals and metals recovery act, introduced earlier this year by representative troy balderson and senator jon husted, provide such language. Thank you again for this opportunity and for your consideration of the impact of these regulations on the company's operating under them. >> thank you. The chair now recognizes Mr. gibson for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:53:57>> chairman guthrie palmer, ranking member, tonko and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is josh gibson. I serve as associate general counsel at redwood materials, founded by jb straubel, co-founder and former cto of tesla, redwood is building the first fully integrated us based battery supply chain roughly 90% of all domestically recycled lithium ion batteries are processed through our facilities, making us the largest lithium ion battery recycler in north
▶ 0:54:27America. We recover, on average, 98% of critical minerals from end of life batteries. Our operations represent the first commercial scale nickel mine to open in the us in a decade. The only new commercial scale of domestic lithium in decades and the largest U.S. source of cobalt. Our operations set the standard for what domestic recycling should look like. Redwood's approach spans the full battery life cycle. We repurpose batteries that still have useful life for grid scale energy storage.
▶ 0:54:55We recycle batteries that have reached end of life to recover the critical minerals, and we refine those minerals and manufacture new battery components, including cathode active material, the most expensive component in a new battery that's done with zero fossil fuels, zero industrial discharge, and with an air emission permit that's akin to those at hospitals and hotels. End of life batteries are not an environmental problem.
▶ 0:55:23They are a strategic resource that can be reinvested into the next generation of american industry. The title of this hearing asks whether our environmental laws help or hinder critical mineral supply chains. These laws were written for a different era before the lithium ion battery industry existed, applied to today's materials and processes, they are producing outcomes that no one intended, pushing investment, manufacturing and critical mineral recovery offshore rather than keeping them within our borders.
▶ 0:55:49Two epa legal frameworks are at the center of this problem. Rcra and tosca both need to be modernized to reflect current technology and market realities and to align with the goals of this committee and the administration are pursuing. Under rcra, epa classifies used lithium ion batteries as hazardous waste. That classification forces domestic recyclers into a permitting process that can take years to complete. The death knell for innovation.
▶ 0:56:18Or it requires us to store batteries at a physically separate location from where we process. Batteries must be unloaded and reloaded and trucked on a public road from one property to the next. This creates more risk, not less. China reclassified these same materials as non waste raw material last year, and now controls more than 80% of global lithium ion recycling capacity.
▶ 0:56:43The eu went the other direction, classified black mass as hazardous waste, and is already seeing investor flight and canceled projects. The united states is on track to make the same mistake under tosca. The epa treats each modified cathode material as an entirely new chemical substance, triggering a review process that's supposed to take 90 days but in practice takes over a year. It's followed by a second rulemaking that adds months or years more.
▶ 0:57:09Total time to market regularly exceeds three years. The message to manufacturers is simple build overseas and import the finished product. Tosca also punishes recyclers. Restrictions imposed by epa under tosca prevent new variants of battery materials from domestic distribution. Consequently, domestic recycler cannot distribute the material it recovers within the united states. As a result, critical minerals are exported.
▶ 0:57:36That is the exact opposite of what this committee is trying to achieve. These batteries also impact energy storage. Many end of life ev batteries retain up to 80% of their usable capacity. Through redwood energy, we deployed the largest second life battery material installation in the world. But epa's framework creates uncertainty about these batteries, whether their waste when they first leave a vehicle, hindering the entire repurposing industry.
▶ 0:58:03When demand from data centers and ai is surging. Our ask is straightforward first, enact a national lithium ion battery management act that creates a unified federal framework. Second, use epa rulemaking to exclude lithium ion batteries and battery materials destined for repurposing or recycling from the definition of solid waste.
▶ 0:58:24Third, reform tosca's treatment of cathode materials so domestic manufacturers and recyclers are not penalized for operating in the us and fourth, mandate interagency alignment. So epa works towards the same goals as other agencies in this committee. The materials are in the us, the technology is in the us, the investment is ready. What we need is a regulatory framework that prioritizes these critical materials for what they are strategic assets. Thank you. I welcome your questions.
▶ 0:58:56>> I thank our witnesses for their opening statements. The chair now recognizes the chairman of the full committee, the distinguished gentleman from kentucky, Mr. guthrie, for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you. Thank you for calling me. I appreciate the recognition. And I want to start with I know we're talking about critical minerals and mining. Uh, one of the great mining engineers to serve in congress was, uh, a dear friend of all of ours, david mckinley and david mckinley passed away last week, and I think his funeral was this monday.
▶ 0:59:24He was a colleague, and he loved this subcommittee. He was very important to this subcommittee. And he's someone that will all miss his dear wife, miriam, who who was here with him quite often. And so we got to know her as well. Uh, our I think I can speak for everybody on the committee and the subcommittee that that he was a dear man and his thoughts and our thoughts and prayers are with him and his, his, his wife and his family, because we're certainly going to miss him.
▶ 0:59:51He's still kind of kept in touch with a lot of us. So we really appreciated that. And, um, the earth's a little less today because david mckinley's not with us anymore. And he certainly loved west virginia. He loved what he did. And he knew that that the minerals of this world were important and were important to what we are able to use for our country. So, uh, god bless him. God bless the mckinley's. So, Mr.
▶ 1:00:15Steve cohen, um, and is it gutkin or gutkin? Uh, in your testimony, you describe a complicated regulatory framework that your company, redwood materials, has to navigate in order to recycle and recover critical minerals from batteries? One of the challenges we've heard about is that even slight variations of an existing chemical have to undergo a full risk review. How do you.
▶ 1:00:40So the question is, how do you think allowing epa to group together similar or equivalent chemicals for expedited risk reviews would improve the process and provide more certainty to manufacturers? >> thank you for your question, and I think it will speed things up. First of all, because to use an analogy, you have various shades of green. You have deep green, light green, emerald sea green.
▶ 1:01:07These are all green. They're just slight variations of the same thing. And so if instead tosca were to group these and work through the science to determine the protections for them as green, they can do this as a class should be a quicker one, and so a quicker process closer to the 90 days that they're supposed to. And in addition to that, once they've made that determination for green, it covers all green.
▶ 1:01:37So you don't have to go through it again and again for each process. This is actually similar to what they do in europe under reach. So this isn't something that's new or novel, but it is something that makes sense. >> as soon as an avid recycler myself, I. I'm known to pull aluminum cans out of the garbage, not because I collect them to sell. I turn them in because either they go in the ground or they go back in the stream of commerce. And why do we want them back in?
▶ 1:02:00My family's in the aluminum business, so I figure the more aluminum that exists, the the cheaper aluminum is going to be for everybody. And so and it saves them putting them into the ground, which is a, is a waste. And so we need to make it easier for people to recycle. We need to make it and particularly these, these critical minerals that we have. So also, Mr. kupchan, in your testimony, you discuss how epa requirements are not often not aligned with safety standards issued by osha and other regulatory bodies.
▶ 1:02:25Can you briefly describe your workplace safety practices and how conflicting regulatory requirements can present challenges for your workers and potentially impacts? I think both agencies want them to be safe, but sometimes they conflict. And how could you give us an example?
▶ 1:02:42>> yeah, so I think the example to use really is between going back to tosca, what you have from that organization, going and putting restrictions for safety on one company versus another, and them not being aligned, even though it's the same materials. And that can be different from what osha has done. Who has the delegated scope for protecting employees? And so you have three different things that possibly you're looking at.
▶ 1:03:10And just as an example with lfb, um, you have restrictions that come out based on tosca, where the filter protection that you have for the manufacture of it is one tenth the protection for the recyclers using the same material from the same company that come down from the same company. There's really no rationale beyond that. It doesn't provide any added protection for the workers. It's just provides added cost and added problems for the recycler. And so why aren't these aligned?
▶ 1:03:39And moreover, why isn't osha, who has the ability and the mandate to go and find these levels of protection, have them do the work on that so that we have a consistent framework from state to state across the nation for how we protect our. >> thank you. I don't have much time left, so I'll just leave with this is that I was just on the floor of the house and they announced the passing of david scott.
▶ 1:04:03I think all of us are aware of that now and again, just like with our dear friend david mckinley, uh, david scott, his wife was hank aaron's sister. So hank aaron was his brother in law. And he used to we used to I was growing up in a h. Res. Family. That's kind of our connection. He would talk about all the the issues that hank aaron had to go through. And I can tell you too, when he moved to atlanta to play, uh, play baseball. And I tell you, the whole world was cheering for him in 1974.
▶ 1:04:27So it's amazing what that family has brought into our country, and particularly david scott and his service. Our thoughts and prayers are with miss Mrs. scott and the scott family. So thank you. >> I thank the gentleman. The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the committee, Mr. tom cole, for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:04:49Doctor spiller, I want to associate myself with your testimony that, uh, securing our critical mineral supply chains is a complex, multifaceted issue that does not need to come at the expense of our environmental laws. We heard from a few witnesses that the recycling of critical minerals can play an important role in securing domestic supplies.
▶ 1:05:10And there may be, uh, may very well be definitional and regulatory barriers that make recycling more challenging. Doctor spiller, as a first order issue, can you give us a sense of the potential for recycling to play a role in reducing our dependance on foreign supply chains? >> so that's a great question.
▶ 1:05:38Uh, we have limited, um, material here right now in terms of just the quantity of batteries and black mass to really make a huge dent currently, uh, obviously as, uh, demand ramps up, the more electric vehicles we buy and, uh, you know, turn over over the years, we will have the ability to reduce our, our dependance on foreign sources,
▶ 1:06:09But currently we don't, just don't have a huge amount of mass to, to really make a dent in it right now. >> thank you. And your testimony mentioned that there were incentives and regulations in the forms of the 30 d clean vehicle tax credit and epa's ghg tailpipe rule, which have now been repealed, that were structured to further reduce investments in and demand for domestic critical minerals, including recycled minerals. Is that correct?
▶ 1:06:40>> I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time hearing you. Could you repeat the question? >> sure. The, the, the, uh, incentives and regulations, uh, that were in the form of the 30 d clean vehicle tax credit and epa's ghg tailpipe rule, which have now been repealed, were structured to further induce investments in and demand for domestic critical minerals, including recycled minerals. Is that correct? >> yes. That's correct.
▶ 1:07:06>> so is it fair to say that well-designed federal policies, whether that's incentives or environmental regulations, can actually promote our domestic critical mineral goals? >> absolutely. Um, these the 30 d tax credit I think was, uh, really great option and was a really great policy because what it did was at the same time that it created this, this really increased demand for the electric vehicles, it tied the sourcing of the minerals.
▶ 1:07:34Um, it tied the demand for the electric vehicles to domestic sourcing of, of the minerals themselves. So in order to be able to get the tax credit, the minerals in the batteries had to come either from domestic sources or from friendly nations. So that led to a lot of, you know, offtake agreements, uh, with, um, domestic, um, lithium producers.
▶ 1:08:01So by tying the, the demand, the demand side to the, to the upstream it created, um, you know, a really strong base for our supply chain. >> well, the national extended producer responsibility, the epr requirement for the safe repurposing, recycling and disposal of batteries was a good, strong incentive.
▶ 1:08:24The infrastructure investment and jobs act required epa to develop such a framework, and I have been pleased that this effort has continued under the current trump administration. So, doctor spiller, could a national program like this or. Battery manufacturers are responsible for a standardized system supporting the collection, recovery, repurposing and recycling of batteries help achieve our goals of reusing critical minerals and reducing risks of exporting minerals that have already entered the us economy.
▶ 1:08:55>> I'm not an expert on that policy. I don't really know much about that, so I can't speak to that directly. But any sort of policy that requires the collection of the batteries themselves for recycling, um, I think would be probably a pretty good policy to help, you know, ensure that we're continuing to collect the material needed to, to, you know, shore up the supply chain. >> and Mr.
▶ 1:09:21Kupchan, I believe redwood materials has been part of those conversations, am I not correct that led that have been led by epa to inform the development of this framework? >> you're referring to the extended producer responsibility? Yes, definitely. We have been involved in those discussions, I believe, both at the state and the federal level, and we continue to be involved in those seeing that when there is an advantage to increasing recycling, we're interested in being a part of that.
▶ 1:09:49>> and what's your impression of of the effort, and what are some of the elements that may be included in the forthcoming framework? >> I think the issues right now mostly are that it is on a state by state level, and that poses challenges for anyone when you have to, uh, change what you're doing from one state to the other, especially for something like a ev battery that can be bought in one state, moved to another. So that, that is something that needs to be looked at.
▶ 1:10:17Um, beyond that, I have to admit that I'm not the one who's most directly involved in those conversations for it. But again, if we have something where it helps to promote recycling, see that these batteries, which have an extended life possibility through second purpose or afterwards, if they don't have that life possible, that they can be used for recycling to recover critical minerals. Generally speaking, what's in favor? >> thank you for that. I've exhausted my time. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield back. >> thank you gentlemen.
▶ 1:10:46The chair now recognizes the chairman of the energy subcommittee, the gentleman from ohio, Mr. latta, for five minutes for his questions. >> well, thank you very much, Mr. chairman, and thanks to our witnesses for being here. If I could start Mr. uh, kupchan with you.
▶ 1:11:01In your written testimony, you discussed the potential for use lithium battery, lithium ion batteries to be repurposed, repurposed for grid scale energy storage, supplying electricity for utilities, manufacturing facilities and data centers, among other facilities.
▶ 1:11:16How would repurposing these batteries support our efforts to make sure our important infrastructure has access to reliable power, while also protecting ratepayers from price increases resulting from increased demand? >> what I can tell you is, you know, as I said in my verbal testimony, redwood energy has deployed the largest second life battery installation in the world.
▶ 1:11:41So that's a 63 megawatt hour micro-grid powered by repurposed ev batteries that's operating right now on our campus. It was completed in under six months and up to 50% lower cost than conventional systems. Um, so just using that as a quick example of what can be done with resources that we have, same materials can be provided and given for infrastructure for industry.
▶ 1:12:06We recently announced a partnership with rivian to help, uh, provide energy storage systems for their manufacturing plant. So there's wide applicability where we have this resource available and we can use them right away in a quicker, cheaper deployment for both utilities and the private sector. >> you know, what countries are or what country or what countries out there are doing the most in battery repurposing right now. >> uh, honestly, I'm not sure who else is.
▶ 1:12:34I'm, you know, we seem to be doing some of the first initial work on this. We're an innovator. Um, each battery company makes different types of batteries and they speak a different language. And we've learned how to crack the code and have that happen so that we can use different types of batteries and have this function. Uh, but we want to see that it's used on a large scale. Obviously, it's a very important part.
▶ 1:12:56>> you know, you also noted that epa's framework creates uncertainty around battery repurposing and subject reuse batteries to rcra if classified as waste, what alternative approach should congress be considering right now to support reuse while ensuring safe handling? >> so there's two parts to that. First, as far as how you could change the regulations so that they're not considered waste. There's already a process for this.
▶ 1:13:24It's 40 cfr 260 1.4, which is exclusions for certain materials. If they are recycled, you could simply add batteries, battery materials to that list, the same way that shredded circuit boards are listed there. That takes it out of the waste category and makes a more streamlined approach for recyclers or others. It still requires, as mentioned by my counterpart, the need for legitimate recycling. So there's still protections there. There's also other protections from other agencies. So we're not giving up anything. We're not reducing environmental.
▶ 1:13:56It's just a pathway to go ahead and do it in a better way. And it says to the world that these materials are feedstock, not waste. >> well, thank you very much, Mr. lehmann. Uh, what national security or economic benefits will result from repurposing batteries, uh, domestically? And would there be a private sector interest in expanding this industry domestically with a clear regulatory environment? >> yes, absolutely.
▶ 1:14:19And I would expand the aperture further, as well as broader electronic scrap. The vast majority of it is exported today. The vast majority of that is going to china. So the the opportunities for recycling reclamation to supplement what primary means will have to scale production is going to be absolutely essential.
▶ 1:14:45And we have we have mountains of material under our feet with the on the electric motor side, you know, the initial vintages of of electric vehicles are reaching end of life. We have a mountain of that coming in terms of drive motors. So the opportunity to scale domestic capabilities for recycling is, is significant and a major unlock would be clarity and, and regulatory framework that has certainty, clarity and clear timelines.
▶ 1:15:15>> you know, this kind of quick question follow up when you talk about, especially with the evs today and, you know, reclaiming the critical minerals and those are those being exported right now, the to, uh, let's say china. >> for dry better specifically, I don't have specific knowledge on, on that, but e-scrap more generally. Absolutely.
▶ 1:15:38Um, but there's, um, there's limited, you know, ability for current recyclers to extract rare earth elements. There are other aspects that are done domestically today at scale. Um, you know, platinum group metals, catalysts, related items, things like that. Um, where there are recycling capabilities, but needs to be extended for, uh, you know, broader critical minerals that we need. >> well, thank you very much, Mr. chairman. My time has expired and I yield back. >> thank you. Gentlemen.
▶ 1:16:08The chair now recognizes the distinguished member from california, doctor ruiz, for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. The framing of today's hearing, help or hindrance is deeply frustrating. It reinforces a false choice between protecting public health and securing america's critical mineral supply chain. Today, lithium is primarily extracted through evaporation ponds or hard rock mining.
▶ 1:16:36Both land and energy intensive processes that can put the public's health at risk. That said, california's 25th district is home to lithium valley, a region defined as much by its potential as by its resource base. What makes lithium valley unique is both what it holds and how it can be developed.
▶ 1:17:02It sits atop one of the largest known lithium reserves in the western hemisphere, in fact, the fifth largest in the world. And lithium valley uses the cleanest way to extract minerals in the world. You see, it is a closed loop circuit, uh, where you draw geothermal brine extracted, goes up, creates geothermal energy produced, releasing vapor water stream.
▶ 1:17:32And as it goes back to the brine re-injected underground, critical minerals are filtered and extracted out, including lithium and manganese. And this will generate the battery manufacturing that we need and the clean energy that our nation needs. No large salt lakes or deep, cavernous mines emitting pollutants in the air.
▶ 1:17:59Lawrence berkeley national lab estimates 3.4 million metric tons of lithium could be recovered in lithium valley and over 5000 times current us annual production. This could shift america's critical mineral supply chain away from china, and it goes beyond lithium. Lithium valley also holds manganese vital for batteries and defense, a mineral. We have had zero domestic production of since 1970.
▶ 1:18:27What makes this powerful is that it is operational, not theoretical. Companies are already extracting lithium, manganese, zinc and cesium from geothermal brine while producing clean energy. Doctor spiller in developing critical mineral manufacturing projects. Why is it crucial for developers to secure community trust and support?
▶ 1:18:50>> well, from an investor perspective, a community trust is a material risk factor in projects that fail to secure it are much more likely to face permitting delays, litigation, cost overruns, or even cancellation. And all of this is going to undermine the project economics and even deter capital.
▶ 1:19:07Um, and it's important to note, right, many critical mineral projects are located near communities that have a history of exposure to, to really severe mining harms and particularly indigenous communities. Um, and so investors really need to pay close attention to whether or not developers can manage this risk credibly. >> I agree fostering community trust is non-negotiable. Uh, what does effective, meaningful and equitable community engagement look like?
▶ 1:19:35And how does community engagement also benefit developers? >> well, I mean, that can be defined as sort of community led engagement that takes place across all phases of project development. So it requires companies to bring in communities as sort of partners to the development project process. And, and, um, you know, communities are sort of involved in decision making and decision making processes around development that's happening in, in their neighborhood and where they live.
▶ 1:20:05And so it creates the social license to operate and communities feel that they are part of the process. >> thank you. So of my colleagues point to environmental laws as the chief obstacles to domestic development. I see it differently. The national environmental policy act and the clean air act do not hinder development. They structure it when implemented efficiently. These laws reduce risk for developers and give communities a meaningful seat at the table.
▶ 1:20:32So, doctor spiller, how would weakening or undermining our environmental regulations remove our ability to have the upper hand against foreign adversaries? >> yeah. Well, you know, weakening our standards really undermines the two major things that we compete upon, which is trusted supply chains and high value markets. You know, one of the big one of the big issues is that our global buyers and allies are moving towards a cleaner procurement standards and carbon based requirements.
▶ 1:21:02So if we don't meet those standards, we're going to be locked out of premium markets and partnerships. >> thank you. You see, this is not about helper or hindrance. It's about doing the right thing. Lithium and the right way. Lithium valley shows that responsible domestic permitting can achieve. When science, communities and national security align. This is how we compete with china, not by cutting corners, but by building something better. I yield back. >> thank you. Gentlemen. Chair now recognizes the chairman of the health subcommittee.
▶ 1:21:30Uh, the distinguished gentleman from virginia. Mr. guthrie. >> I was Mr. guthrie. I played Mr. guthrie earlier today, but I know it's been a long day. >> it's been a long day. >> it's been a long. >> day. >> and I did. And I did play Mr. guthrie earlier today in the opening statement, so I understand. >> well, yesterday on the board, I introduced, uh, representative heard it was actually representative crank. Yeah, I'm on a roll. Yeah. >> Mr.
▶ 1:21:58Lehmann, uh, researchers at virginia tech, which is located in my district, like my friend doctor yoon, have carried out research to analyze and separate rare earth elements in coal and in piles or coal waste. Uh, how can state and federal coordination incentivize the identification of other sources of waste that may also contain critical minerals? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:22:21There's been a significant amount of research and development and project work done specifically on coal tailings and the ability to extract. Um, I think looking at the broader aperture of waste streams and applying a similar level of rigor is, is certainly merited on the, on the research and development front.
▶ 1:22:40Um, but I'd say at the same time, um, you know, there's, there's a need to, uh, to move forward with what is most immediately deployable and scalable and, and has a pathway to being economically competitive, but that innovation has to be a core part of the, of the solution set at scale, as I mentioned in my statement. So continued research and development on extractive methodologies for, for a broader aperture makes sense.
▶ 1:23:07>> and I guess as a follow up, are there particular industries or operations that lenders and venture capitals are hesitant to invest in because of a lack of regulatory consistency? >> yes. As I mentioned, when there's uncertainty with regards to, to, to timelines, the, the regulatory pathways, um, it's much more challenging to, to underwrite a given project. If there's a track record of, uh, uncertainties, delays, stops and starts.
▶ 1:23:37So really the only point I'm making is that, um, you know, one consideration would be a prioritized regulatory pathway with clearly established timelines requirements upfront. So it's clear to the market, clear to the counterparty executing the project. What that is often. >> oftentimes, if I'm understanding you, that's what we call shot clocks on certain things.
▶ 1:23:59To say that you've got to say yes or no by a certain time so that people know what's going on or say, you didn't give us enough information and reset the so-called shot clock. >> and I know it's it's been a focus of both congress and the administration, you know, applying, um, fast forward towards critical projects, you know, considering strategic materials projects as a classification to be bucketed and allocated towards priority regulatory pathways like that makes a lot of sense to me.
▶ 1:24:27Um, because there's the scope, scale, complexity of the gaps resident within this broad complex of strategic materials is significant and vast. And there's got to be a way to, um, I had an experience from covid response when I was running the dpa program. We need to with leadership and urgency, um, and resourcing, uh, we can attack this problem and private capital will deploy at scale.
▶ 1:24:56Um, you know, if some of the barriers are, are removed. >> or reduced, right. Um, Mr. duncan, in your written testimony, you suggested adding used lithium ion batteries and battery materials intended to be recycled to the list of materials excluded from the definition of solid waste. Why do you believe excluding these materials would address your concerns with how battery recycling is regulated?
▶ 1:25:20>> so currently with recycling, the way that things are, um, as I said, there's two pathways basically that, uh, we're forced to go. Either you go through a part a, b permitting process, which can take somewhere around two years to complete. If you want to make any modifications, you're looking at several months more for any modifications for those to be approved and incorporated into your permit. You know, if you're an innovator, if you're a startup, this is not really helpful.
▶ 1:25:49Uh, the other path, as I said, was you wind up categorizing materials as universal waste. Again, calling them a waste. But there's a weird spot within these regulations that say you have your destination facility where you process, you can't keep the materials that you want to process on that property. You have to store them somewhere else. And that, again, does not make sense. And from an environment and safety perspective, it doesn't make sense. As well as the logistics perspective, you now have to handle the material more, move it again, put it on a public road, load it, unload it.
▶ 1:26:19It's ridiculous, quite frankly, and I don't see the reason for why it's there. By contrast, if you go and exclude these materials, recognize them as material feedstocks similar to other materials like I mentioned before, shredded circuit boards, uh, very analogous and say these are important. Epa has recognized the importance of these and said if these are recycled, they're not waste. You don't have to deal with either of those frameworks. So you're able to move forward.
▶ 1:26:48You still have to prove that you're legitimately recycling so you don't lose anything from environmental protection. >> yeah. And my time is up. I would say, miss neil, I have some questions for you for the record. And, uh, as the old song said, one woman's trash is another woman's treasure. I yield back. >> gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes the distinguished representative from the state of california. Miss barragan. Further questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Critical minerals are essential for our phones, our semiconductors, clean energy, electric vehicles and the grid.
▶ 1:27:18One area where we can make real progress is expanding battery recycling and reuse, so we can strengthen domestic supply chains while reducing the need for new mining. Mr. goodkin, I want to start with you. Your testimony highlighted that many batteries can still be used for energy storage when they come out of vehicles, but current rules often treat them as waste, which makes reusing them more difficult. At the same time, we need to make sure that reused batteries are safe and reliable.
▶ 1:27:49They can pose a fire risk if not handled properly. What standards for battery use, collection and labeling would help strike a balance so that we can increase reuse without creating new safety or environmental risks? >> yeah, thank you for that question. And what I'd say is there actually are standards to help address this.
▶ 1:28:11The national fire protection association and the international fire code, uh, they develop standards for batteries, uh, that include storage, handling transportation. And these are standards that are developed by a group, uh, both from industry, from government, private sector, national interests. And they take a lot of time to go and figure out what the best standards are for these protections.
▶ 1:28:39They look at them both from a used battery perspective, and they also have regulations that they develop for energy storage. And when used in that aspect, I'll add as well for something like second life batteries, where we're trying to repurpose for energy storage, there's requirements for testing, uh, ul testing under underwriting laboratories that we have to go and meet. Uh, we've recently announced passing a series of those tests. So I'm very proud of that.
▶ 1:29:03And that again, is something that's out there that we have to do to make sure that we are making sure as these are out there, they are safe for people. >> great. Thank you. Uh, Mr. lehman, in your testimony, you support strong environmental standards and you stressed the importance of consistency with our regulations and our permitting timeline. Are there ways to improve coordination across agencies like doe, epa, and others to reduce delays and uncertainty for critical minerals projects? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:29:33Yes, I think that's been a focus of the of the current administration with some of the recent executive orders, specifically around enhanced coordination with the with the epa and relevant agencies. Um, is there likely still room for, for improvement?
▶ 1:29:48Uh, of course, but I think specifically taking the, the department of war as example, uh, there's an opportunity to systematize and bring automation clarity, timelines to the process to be able to handle the extent of the portfolio of projects that would need to get, uh, appropriate monitoring and attention and treatment, uh, on priority regulatory pathways and have sufficient cross talk, uh, and make sure that they
▶ 1:30:20Understand the given agency's priorities requirements as it relates to strategic materials and the projects that they're sponsoring. Uh, but okay. >> thank you, doctor spiller. We also need consistent federal policies. In 2025, the trump administration took a 5% ownership stake in lithium americas to support domestic lithium production. Now, lithium americas has an agreement with general motors to supply lithium for its ev batteries. At the same time, the trump administration has ended federal support for electric vehicles.
▶ 1:30:49What happens when the government supports building more domestic critical mineral supply, but at the same time, you know, weakens demand for the products that use those minerals and materials? >> yeah. Well, in this specific case, this was really problematic because when that happened, uh, general motors was already backing out of that specific offtake agreement. So it exposed the american public to downside risk.
▶ 1:31:15Um, at the same time that the government was taking this equity risk, uh, the lithium americas deal was, you know, really problematic because, right. They, um, the government was not able to, you know, provide that sort of demand certainty for, for in terms of, you know, providing more and more demand for the lithium, uh, in terms of, you know, having greater demand for batteries.
▶ 1:31:43And, um, it exposed the american taxpayers to greater downside risk. >> great. Thank you. I yield back. >> gentlelady yields chair now recognizes gentleman from georgia, the distinguished member Mr. carter for five minutes for his question. >> thank you for getting my name right I appreciate that. Thank you all for being here today. This is a very important and, you know, I'm not going to repeat everything that we all know.
▶ 1:32:11And that is how china is dominating the rare earth minerals. Um, the rare earth elements like graphite, lithium, cobalt and copper and copper, we all know that. And we all understand how important it is for us to be competitive there. However, to develop the domestic capacity to process and refine critical minerals domestically, we need a more efficient permitting process. And that is why I have introduced h.r.
▶ 1:32:363059, the streamlining critical mineral permitting act, and it actually passed the house as part of the lower energy cost act last congress, and is still pending again, this congress that it will allow processors and refiners of critical energy resources to operate under an interim permit under the resource conservation and recovery act. Subtitle. Mr.
▶ 1:33:00Gutkin, I want to ask you, how would allowing these facilities to operate under an interim hazardous waste permit support efforts to build up domestic refining and processing capacity, while still ensuring that hazardous waste is managed properly? >> so I'll say it's a path that could be taken and it's better than the current situation. I would not say that it's the most preferred path to go, quite simply. >> well, what do you what um, what concerns do you have?
▶ 1:33:30>> well, you're still going through this permitting path. That's interim, which means to some extent you're operating at your own risk and you still have to go through in the end for permitting and getting everything done there. So there's still that time frame before it is formalized. You still have to go through every time you make a modification, the permitting process for a modification, which takes time.
▶ 1:33:50So, um, I respect the idea of going through that, but if we really want to treat these materials as critical and as a feedstock, again, I go back to putting them as a feedstock and going through the exclusions allowed that epa has followed as well to do that and have it go. >> but you would agree it's better than what we got now. >> I would say it's better than what we currently have. >> okay. Mr. liman, let me ask you, how did delays in obtaining permits to open refining and processing facilities deter investment in the united states?
▶ 1:34:24>> diversion. Uh, investment doesn't come through when there's uncertainty. Uh, and there's not predictability to the, to the process. >> right? I would agree with you. You know, it doesn't matter what sector of the economy we're talking about. When I have groups in my office, whether it be healthcare, technology or even processing there, it's always the same. We need as much certainty as we can get. We need to in order to invest in order to, to, to plan for the future. We need that certainty. So I appreciate that.
▶ 1:34:54Let me ask you also, do you have any recommendations for the committee in keeping permitting timelines more predictable? >> uh, I do in terms of, um, you're considering a prioritized and expedited regulatory pathway for strategic materials projects.
▶ 1:35:11Um, you know, I know there's been some projects where, where fast 41 has been, uh, has been applied to it clearly delineating timelines, accountabilities and providing, you know, specific, prioritized attention to making sure that those gates and timelines are satisfied, um, and making sure that they're enforceable. >> good. Mr.
▶ 1:35:32Goodland, in your written testimony, you explained that facilities that want to recycle lithium ion batteries have two options, both of which drive investments overseas. One of these is to enter the r c, r a, part a and b permitting process. You describe some of the challenges with this process and how its timeline is unworkable for the fast growing and constantly evolving industries. Why is this, and are there opportunities to make this permitting process more efficient that congress can consider?
▶ 1:36:02>> so why does the permitting process take as long as it does? I can't answer that as well as the folks over at epa, to be quite honest with you. Um, you know, it's a matter of I suppose they want more information, more information, more information. Um, you know, for whatever reasons that they do, the permitting process was developed for really chemical treatment plants as opposed to something like a battery recycling plant. And so again, you mentioned the permitting as an option instead.
▶ 1:36:32But really what you wind up having is for batteries, lithium ion batteries, they can be classified as a subcategory, a hazardous waste, universal waste, which doesn't require the permit so long as you don't store the materials on site. And that's what you drive people to. But then you have the problem, as I said before, of having the material feedstock at a different site from where you're processing it, which from a logistics and safety standpoint doesn't really make sense. So I'd say again.
▶ 1:36:58>> well, I'm out of time, but I really do feel like the legislation that I have, the streamlining critical mineral permitting act, will help modernize this, this process and, and will be productive and helpful. So thank you and I appreciate it. And I yield back. >> gentleman yields chair now recognizes distinguished gentleman from ohio Mr. landsman for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you, Mr. chair. >> ranking member thank. >> you all for being here. >> um, I want to talk about the batteries first.
▶ 1:37:25Obviously the critical minerals work that we do has huge implications for our economy. You know, for individual household spending, national security. It is one of the most significant things we've got to solve, uh, and win on the domestic production piece is a challenge. There are some doors that we can go through. One is the, the production recycling of batteries. I just want to start with you, Mr. pupkin.
▶ 1:37:54How does the investing in battery recycling help us as it relates to critical minerals? Well, first off, it keeps the materials here within us soil, right? We can do the full life cycle and have it here. So you can have the production of batteries, put it into the vehicle or wherever else those lithium ion batteries go. They go through their life. We can repurpose them and keep them here.
▶ 1:38:22And then we go through and take those and recycle them and keep the critical minerals here. So instead of having any of that flowing outside the us, we have it all here. In addition, it's a way of using what we call an urban mine. The materials are here, they're well packaged. They're in the same location, nice and easy, as opposed to going to several different mines, whether they're in the us or outside. >> right? It's one thing that we're, you know, buying all of these batteries. >> uh. >> from all over the, the world, critical minerals coming from all over the world.
▶ 1:38:50Once they get here, though, we're in a position to keep them. Absolutely. And that is through the battery recycling efforts in the bipartisan infrastructure law, there was about $6 billion in battery manufacturing, recycling and processing. Trump has targeted these efforts, canceling $700 million in grants, including support for $1 billion recycling battery facility in kentucky.
▶ 1:39:17Doctor spiller, can you talk speak to the importance of certainty and what this does when these dollars get pulled out of the market? >> yeah. Thanks for that question. Market certainty is really important. Um, you know, projects are really expensive and take years to build. And there's three specific aspects of certainty that we have to think about. The first one is regulatory and policy certainty, right?
▶ 1:39:43I'm thinking that the policies are going to maintain, um, fixed and not flip flop over time as we saw. The second one is demand certainty. And this has a lot to do with policies, right? Policies drive demand. So understanding whether or not the demand for the products are going to grow over time. Um, and then finally price certainty.
▶ 1:40:04So, so being able to, to know whether or not, you know, are you going to have a price of minerals that is going to, you know, not be subject to massive price volatility. And so, um, this is where offtake agreements is so hugely important. And so this is why, you know, when we're talking about connecting the upstream with the downstream is so important because the ability to enter into long term, um, fixed price offtake agreements is going to be really key for market certainty.
▶ 1:40:36>> thank you. I appreciate that. I think it's in I know it's incumbent on this congress, uh, both sides to hold the administration accountable to say, look, we passed this, these investments in battery production, recycling. They have to go out the door. There has to be consistency. We have to make these investments. Um, with the time I have left, part of getting to the domestic production piece also includes the permitting reform that my colleagues have talked about.
▶ 1:41:07My frustration is that there's two ways to do this. You can do it in a partizan way where you just say, we're going to pass a permitting bill and, you know, may not pass the senate. In fact, it won't may pass. The house won't get us anywhere. Or you can get a bipartisan deal done, which requires, in my opinion, just the following.
▶ 1:41:23You got to put the environmental folks in a room with the industrial industry folks and figure out that way forward where democrats and republicans can come together and say, look, we are going to go find these resources, but we're going to do it in a way that protects the environment. If you had to put folks in a room who are the key environmental and industry folks, we'll start with. Mr. and just very quickly. >> I'd say have us sit with the deputy administrators, administrators from directors from epa. Yeah.
▶ 1:41:54>> I would agree. >> doctors definitely need community groups in there too. >> yeah. >> investors are the best. >> industrial operators of these businesses and investors. >> by the way, if you put those folks in a room and you say, look, we got to get the permitting reform, get a couple democrats, couple republicans, there's a bipartisan bill that probably includes everything that you mentioned. Doctor spiller, I believe you had a few ideas. Mr. kupchan. All of that gets done and done in a way that makes a lot of sense.
▶ 1:42:25Gets to the floor and passes. Thank you. I yield back. >> gentleman yields. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Um, Mr. lehmann, there are no major rare earth refineries in the entire western hemisphere. There's only nine in the world. Eight are in china. The other one's in malaysia.
▶ 1:42:41Uh, cobalt, uh, china controls up to between 75 and 80% of the cobalt processing, refining, uh, 94% of the rare earth refining, 90% of, of, um, high value graphite. Would you agree that this represents a significant threat to our national security and our economic security? >> 100%?
▶ 1:43:12>> would you agree that we're in a time frame, a window of opportunity to correct that to and that it I often compare it to our space race, this generation's space race. Would you agree with that assessment? >> yes. >> can we do this?
▶ 1:43:31Can we secure our own supply chain, not just by building these the critical infrastructure that we need here in the us, but working, uh, with allies, uh, to, to build out this, this process. Uh, would you agree that we could do this and maintain the environmental quality that, that we have always expected and continue to expect?
▶ 1:43:57>> I think we can and we have to, uh, requires a sense of urgency, requires leadership and requires resourcing. And the one thing I've, you need to solve the full value chain before the problem is solved.
▶ 1:44:13And it was, it was very good to see in the in the president's budget, a significant increase in resourcing for the dpa program, for the office of strategic capital, for, uh, you know, several industrial based oriented programs that, um. >> well aware of this have been very involved. Uh, can we create a marketplace that we can put a wall around where if china wants to participate, they can participate, but, but can set a floor for prices.
▶ 1:44:44>> that's a vitally important point. Um, to have a western index, um, you know, particularly in the, in the rare earth space that is a perpetual challenge, something that I know congress and the administration are, are considering options for and executing against. But that's, that's foundational, uh, to, to have a functioning marketplace with, uh, provenance of supply, clarity on price and, and a functioning market is going to be critical.
▶ 1:45:13>> um, miss nil the, the process that my colleague described for, um, closed loop process for lithium, uh, processing, uh, that was described earlier. Can that be applied universally to all critical mineral and rare earth element processing, refining? Is it that simple? >> um, I'm sorry, but I'm probably not the right person to answer that question.
▶ 1:45:40Um, I know that, you know, in our case, we are taking spent catalysts that has, um, recovered vanadium from the refining industry and we're able to recycle it and recover the vanadium there. A similar, um, catalyst that is cobalt based, so similar recoveries, but I don't know about there's a wide, you know, swath of elements that I wouldn't know how.
▶ 1:46:06>> well, for instance, with rare earth elements, some of those are radioactive thorium, for instance. So it we're going to have to have different processes, but we can still do everything that we need to do and maintain the environmental quality that we want to have on the batteries. I thought Mr. landman raised some some good issues there. And we've had this discussion about china buying up, um, spent lithium batteries, but that's not all they're doing.
▶ 1:46:32Um, the regular led batteries that are critical to our supply chain for providing lead, which is now on the critical minerals list, but also antimony, which we have to have. Um, I, um, Mr.
▶ 1:46:46Duncan, we're at a point now where china is setting up um false um companies and other countries to buy up these batteries to the degree that just about 3 or 4 weeks ago, uh, us battery recyclers had to shut down operations because there were no batteries. Uh, would you consider that a problem?
▶ 1:47:16>> I do believe it's a problem if our feedstock is going to china. Um, you know, I would say redwood materials is in something of a lucky position as far as the domestic supply of batteries for recycling, we're taking in the majority that stays here. So I suppose we're also a reason for other companies having a problem. But the vast majority of materials that are going over to china and them taking them, that is definitely a significant issue.
▶ 1:47:42And, uh, you know, the reason we're here, I believe, is partly to make sure that that doesn't become a growing issue and so that there is retained within this country enough feedstock, uh, in those batteries to go and so that we can recycle and we can recover those critical minerals. >> thank the gentleman for his response. Uh, my time has expired. I now recognize the distinguished gentleman from new jersey, Mr. menendez, for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you. Chairman.
▶ 1:48:07American leadership in the world should reflect our commitment to protecting public health and creating economic opportunity for the people we represent. Yet republicans have once again chosen to focus our time on rolling back environmental safeguards that protect our communities. I agree that we need urgent action to address chinese dominance in the critical minerals sector, and as we build out domestic critical mineral capacity, it is vital that the us pursue alternatives that reduce our dependance on china.
▶ 1:48:34Collaborating with our allies is a faster, more efficient and more cost effective way to secure critical minerals than expanding domestic industry alone. Doctor spiller, how will shifting our supply chains away from our adversaries into our partners diminish china's market dominance? >> thanks for that question. I mean, quite frankly, we're going to need to ensure and work with our allies to chip away at china's market dominance. Right.
▶ 1:48:59Given the major challenges that we've been discussing today and that I presented in my testimony, the us isn't going to be able to do this alone, and particularly not in the time frame that, you know, the federal government is hoping to be able to, um, you know, achieve market independence or, you know, get away from china's market dominance. So we're going to need to ally with as many countries as possible and leverage our comparative advantages all along the supply chain. >> right. And the trump administration has said repeatedly that america first does not mean america alone.
▶ 1:49:29We need to engage with our allies. And doctor spiller, how can cooperation with those allies help reduce the need for domestic extraction and processing? >> well, we can rely upon other countries that have, you know, maybe already started extraction. Uh, they may already have projects that that are ongoing.
▶ 1:49:50They might be able to expand those projects, they might have better or qualities, for example, or might have more resources than we do in certain minerals. They might be able to expand those at cheaper prices than us. So it might actually reduce the cost of actually getting the minerals that we need, uh, and be able to do it faster and cheaper than we could do it here. And so that would avoid us having to build new mines that might take us many years and at higher costs.
▶ 1:50:20But I think it's really important that, you know, we don't just focus on, you know, finding the least cost partner, but that we find the least cost partner that also has really strong governance and really good environmental regulations so that we're ensuring a sustainable supply chain. >> I appreciate that you mentioned reliability, but that's a two way street, right? So not just with our allies, but how the allies perceive the united states because we need long term cooperation. But the president continues to cause instability throughout the world.
▶ 1:50:47He has enacted historically high tariffs, intervened in venezuela, gone to war with iran and threatened a military takeover of greenland. It's difficult to achieve the cooperation and predictability needed for new industries to build capacity over time, especially as the trump administration makes the world less stable and less safe. Doctor spiller, how do rising tensions between nations weaken our ability to to sustain collaboration on critical minerals? >> it makes it very challenging. And just as one very clear example, the country right.
▶ 1:51:16You know, the united states right now is pursuing a multilateral agreement to try to, um, you know, have a price floor that's supported by import tariffs against china. But in order to be able to have this price floor actually work to, to support new entrants, uh, of investors, the investors need to believe that this price floor is credible over a long term period.
▶ 1:51:40And that means that the, that allies and that this, um, that this, um, you know, group of allied countries is actually going to be able to hold for a long time and with more and more geopolitical tensions that the credibility of that allyship is not going to be able to hold. And so, um, you know, unless there's significant confidence this is going to fall apart and there's not going to be a true sign of market certainty. And we'll need to. >> that's exactly right. You're referring to a forge, right? Exactly. Right.
▶ 1:52:10And so politico reported on state department cables signaling in the lead up to a, I think, a 50 nation summit, uh, that there was, quote, wariness among some countries about signing on to a framework agreement, pledging joint cooperation and sourcing and processing critical minerals, especially certain european diplomats quoted in the story specifically expressed concerns over trump's request that nato member denmark allow the us to take over greenland because the volatility makes these partnerships harder to maintain, and I'm concerned that the president's actions contribute
▶ 1:52:40To that volatility. Strain our alliances. As you've seen already in the last several weeks and months, and could ultimately undermine our ability to lead a durable critical mineral strategy and counter china, because I think everyone here agrees that on french shoring, that's something that we need to pursue. Right? But I think we need to be cognizant of the lack of credibility that this administration has given its own actions. Um, and I would love my republican colleagues to join in this choir, people saying we need more from this administration and our allies should expect more from us as a, as an ally. So thank you so much.
▶ 1:53:11>> gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes doctor joyce of pennsylvania for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, for holding this important meeting and to our panel for being here today to testify. Securing domestic critical material supply chains has been a key focus for both of the trump administration and of this committee. This is not an abstract concern.
▶ 1:53:31China currently controls the global critical minerals market and has already shown a willingness to place export controls on materials that are needed in national defense and in manufacturing sectors. Not only are we not significantly mining or processing these minerals domestically, but our current regulatory schemes are also making it harder to recycle the materials that we have already imported and could potentially reuse.
▶ 1:54:00Instead of crafting regulations to keep these materials in circulation domestically, the current framework often pushes the recovery of these materials right out of the country, only to be sold back to the united states again, failing to update our regulations to address this issue as both economic and national security ramifications, we need to work toward a regulatory scheme that acknowledges the reality of how important certain materials and chemistries are to U.S.
▶ 1:54:31Interests. Mr. lehmann, from your time at the pentagon and now working in the critical mineral industry, what barriers have you seen to epa considering the national security implications when creating environmental regulations?
▶ 1:54:50>> personally, I didn't experience any any direct in engagement or or roadblock, but from, um, colleagues, there's there's challenges sometimes with regards to the, uh, the exclusions or treatments for at the federal level versus state and local, um, but for, for the epa, I think there's, there's a need to continue to look at legislative reforms, but also, uh, faster priority regulatory
▶ 1:55:23Tracks that these projects can take so that there's clarity around the requirements and the timelines to provide certainty for timeline to execution. And I know there's been, you know, sponsorship coordination for specific projects already with, with regards to that. And, um, applying fast 41 to those that makes a lot of sense to me.
▶ 1:55:43Uh, but all for any other additional reforms or regulatory changes that the epa that would facilitate, uh, market speed for, uh, going through the permitting and regulatory process. >> Mr.
▶ 1:55:59Godkin, earlier, you talked about the lifecycle of batteries and how the batteries and the parts that we need, the critical materials that we need are imported, and we utilize those, and then they leave our country only to be imported again.
▶ 1:56:14Can you discuss how the reuse and recycling goals of the resource reuse and recovery act of 1996 are hindered by epa's continued presumption of batteries as hazardous waste, putting the burden on recyclers like you to prove otherwise. >> yeah. So, um, as I mentioned, when you go and have a presumption of waste, then you wind up having to go through two different avenues, right?
▶ 1:56:43The one avenue being this rcra a, b permitting process, which is timely and burdensome. And, uh, it was very problematic for, for a startup and for an innovator. The other option that you wind up having is that you have storage in different areas for between the processing and where you hold it.
▶ 1:57:02In addition, you have through something like tosca, these areas where, uh, you know, when you're trying to manufacture something, you're trying to move it, you produce something, you have these requirements and you're not able to distribute it within the country. So all these wind up combining and saying, we don't want to really have the materials here. It doesn't make sense. And it all pushes things so that you move it out. >> it does not make sense. I agree with you completely.
▶ 1:57:24And as we see those materials go right out of our hands, returning to our adversaries only to be purchased back again, the recycling of batteries and that lifecycle that you discuss, what should we be doing to appropriately classify ri regulations? And should there be additional legislation to protect and incentivize that recycling, to create that life cycle to begin and end here in the united states?
▶ 1:57:52>> yeah, I definitely believe, you know, one of the things that we are promoting is the lithium ion battery management act, uh, having something in that form so that you have the designation of these materials as the feedstock that they are, uh, have the regulations that cover them basically under one roof so that it covers all these different aspects. And you don't have epa at odds with other agencies like d o w.
▶ 1:58:17>> so would you agree with me that inaction is not that our adversaries are in control of the critical supply chain right now, and we in congress need to craft legislation that allows the us to once again level the playing field. >> I would agree with that. Yes. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman. My time has expired, I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from florida for five minutes. >> thank you chairman.
▶ 1:58:40Rare earth metals, rare earth minerals are in just about every technology we could use nowadays, whether it's electric vehicles, hybrids, computers, cell phones, just about every tech you could imagine. And in the inflation reduction act, we incentivize new and used evs and domestic battery manufacturing. And we finally saw domestic battery manufacturing growing again. That was before trump's war on clean energy.
▶ 1:59:08Since then, the president canceled $700 million in battery manufacturing incentives that were already awarded under the big ugly law. It eliminated the ev tax credits and the the battery manufacturing tax credits as well. And since liberation day, we've seen literally almost two years in a row of declining U.S. manufacturing.
▶ 1:59:30So it's rich that a lot of my colleagues who literally voted to destroy the manufacturing incentives for batteries are now going to blame environmental laws. And then on top of it, the president demanding government ownership, shares of private companies. That is literally the socialism people are warning about adding the tariffs in the iran war. And it's not the environmental laws that are a threat to our supply chain. It's the president's disastrous policies. And then we see a current trend that's really disturbing.
▶ 1:59:59We only have one U.S. rare earth element mine in the country, mountain pass, mojave desert, which had some shutdowns already. We've seen closed minds in the jervoise jervoise cobalt mine in idaho, us, magnesium and utah magnitude seven metals and missouri. Doctor spiller, why are all these mines closing? Even though we need these types of metals? >> well, a big reason for that is low low global prices, right?
▶ 2:00:30So the jervois mine closed because of sustained low cobalt prices. Um, so right, this is not something that, that the mining companies can control. >> so we're either going to have to subsidize those mines or we're going to have to build on domestic demand. Would that be two of the ways to help handle that? >> there are other ways, right. And this is something I talk about in my testimony. We can invest in innovation.
▶ 2:00:55So there are new approaches to innovating that, you know, we could try to identify approaches to to extraction that are lower cost ways to, to, to extracting minerals that doesn't require continued subsidization indefinitely. >> miss deal. Neil, why do you think that some of these mines are closing are barely hanging on.
▶ 2:01:24>> I'll be honest, um, mining is not my area of expertise. Um, we are recycling spent refinery catalysts to recover vanadium as opposed to people having to go mine that, um, out of the earth. Okay. >> well, thank you for your opinion on that. Uh, next we see a bunch of battery plants closed over the last year or two. Fortescue canceled a $210 million ev battery factory in detroit. Blue oval.
▶ 2:01:49S k, a $250 million battery production in kentucky. S k battery america and georgia. The hyundai lg plant in georgia as well. Um, miss spiller, why are the battery plants also closing? >> well, battery plants are closing mainly because demand for electric vehicles are crashing.
▶ 2:02:12And I would argue that a big reason why demand for electric vehicles are crashing are because the policies for the policies at the federal level have reversed. And, uh, all of the policies that the biden administration had put in place supporting electric vehicle demand have now been, you know, removed by the trump administration. >> you know, it's not a tough time, too, because about 20% of new vehicles last year in florida were either electric or hybrid.
▶ 2:02:41So we're seeing demand go up. And that's actually still kind of steady even after the ira is gone. But we're losing the the manufacturing to help produce these vehicles. Mr. lehmann, how do the how are the tariffs in the iran war affect our critical material supply chain? >> for the for the iran war?
▶ 2:03:03Speaking from a from an industry perspective, um, chemical processing and being a critical input material has been referenced a few times during this, during this hearing, uh, you know, sulfuric acid, acid is a critical component, not just for critical minerals processing, but also for oil and gas industry, for fertilizer.
▶ 2:03:23Um, you know, the shutdown and the state has, you know, created a, a disruption in that supply chain that has been further exacerbated, underscoring, uh, china's position with regards to critical minerals and materials. They, they shut off exports of sulfur and sulfuric acid, um, directly after, um, hostilities were initiated.
▶ 2:03:46So that, that is just underscoring the fact that these supply chains are critical and china's going to weaponize its, its position in these markets and. >> which we need to improve domestic production as a result. With a lot of the ideas we talked about today and I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes gentleman from iowa for at least five minutes. >> uh thank you mister chairman. And for holding this important hearing on critical minerals supply chains.
▶ 2:04:12The united states certainly finds itself in a perilous position when it comes to critical minerals with which have nothing to do with this administration. China has pursued a long term strategy for dominance across the entire supply chain, from mining to processing to manufacturing. While we were slow in the united states to respond, that began to change during the trump administration, which directed the federal government to develop a strategy for securing reliable mineral supplies.
▶ 2:04:40Congress built on that foundation through the energy act of 2020 and today, the federal critical minerals list stands at 50 commodities, with more than ten added. Just this past year, we have made promise identified progress identifying the problem. Now we need solutions. One area where I focused my efforts is building a stronger secondary market. My bill, the recycling infrastructure and accessibility act, establishes an epa pilot program to expand collection and recycling capabilities, including in rural communities.
▶ 2:05:08And in one of my first terms in congress, I was able to navigate a bill through. That required the dod to or now department of war to send its hard drives scrubbed and cleaned to the ames national laboratory in ames, iowa, to have the critical minerals, elements and magnets removed in a safe process. And that is now ongoing. So the goal is simple collect more, recycle more, feed those materials back into domestic refining and processing rather than sending them overseas.
▶ 2:05:39These industrial processes are deeply interconnected. The byproduct of one process is often a critical input for another, which means if we lose the ability to manufacture at any point in that chain, the ripple effects cascade through the entire economy. That's not theoretical. The biden administration learned it the hard way, prioritizing regulations that burdened or shut down american refineries without accounting for what we lose downstream.
▶ 2:06:02Miss miller, just on a comment you made earlier, are you saying that without government subsidies, since we are talking about government subsidies, without government subsidies, the demand for electric vehicles decreased? >> yes. Thank you. We we have done our own modeling, uh, that show. >> thank you. I just wanted that question answered. I appreciate it, miss neal. I come from an ag state, and since the beginning of the iranian conflict, the price of sulfuric acid has increased by 30%.
▶ 2:06:32And I think this was mentioned just a moment ago, directly increasing the price of fertilizer during planting season. Most people don't connect those two things. Phosphate fertilizers depend on sulfuric acid, which is a byproduct from refining oil. So less oil is refined. We have less sulfur, which means we have less sulfuric acid. And even though sulfur is not on a critical minerals list, uh, we see that there is a reduction in sulfuric acid.
▶ 2:06:58So from your position inside the refinery supply chain, how severe do you expect the sulfur shortage to get and how long could it last? >> thank you for the question. I really appreciate it. Um, I've not focused on sulfur supply, but, um, you know, we are receiving, you know, catalysts from the oil refining, um, and the, um, oils that are being processed that recover the vanadium also tend to recover sulfur.
▶ 2:07:28So, um, I have not seen a significant decline in that arena. >> in contrast to our farmers. Uh, Mr. lehmann, how have federal critical mineral list influenced decisions about locating, processing or recycling capacity domestically versus abroad? And our current policy incentives are sufficient to shift that calculus meaningfully?
▶ 2:07:56>> it's informed by requirements, detailed analysis around where we have the most, uh, you know, strategic shortfalls. And then taking a look at what, what is available today. Uh, it's never a, an isolated, uh, domestic only approach. Partners and allies absolutely need to be a part of the solution.
▶ 2:08:14Uh, but if you're talking about the rare earths value chain and, uh, you know, obviously very healthy, uh, magnet making industry in japan, but geographically that presents concern in, in scenarios where there's conflict. Um, so that's why I get back to the point around, uh, the issue is not solved until the full value chain is solved. And it's not just raw material to finish good. It's the capital equipment and the things that we need to source to have the full system operate. >> thank you. Mr.
▶ 2:08:44Federal policy often frames domestic security supply security in terms of new extraction. If you would answer this, uh, in written form, but I want to state it, how well do current critical mineral programs recognize recycled feedstock as a legitimate and scalable component of that supply base? And then battery cyclers operating in the united states face a regulatory framework under rcra that's largely originated. And how would we classify that if you could answer that for us?
▶ 2:09:13For the record in writing, I would appreciate that. And my time has expired, I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from north dakota for at least five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Appreciate. Thank you all for sharing your expertise with us today. Uh, this is an interesting, uh, hearing and a subject that we're spending a lot of time on over and over on critical minerals and critical materials. Um, Mr. gutkin, am I saying that correctly? >> you are.
▶ 2:09:43>> yes. Thank you. I was interested in your testimony when you said by 2030, enough end of life ev battery packs will exist in north america to supply roughly half of the projected energy storage market. And, um, and then you list out the two barriers to that being some epa regulations, the resource conservation and recovery act and tosca.
▶ 2:10:09Can you speak just provide some more color on that? What what do we need to be doing to prevent, uh, to enable that recycling? >> basically, we need to promote the idea that these materials are not waste and that they have a purpose, second life purpose and energy storage, and that that is put as a priority for ev packs over recycling, certainly over
▶ 2:10:41Shipping them outside the country. We get that priority straight by, um, going in and classifying them as not being waste, but as the critical feedstocks that they are, then it makes the market there so that they're recognized by those who produce them to supply them for second life repurposing, for energy storage. And then there's still the recycling market. Once they no longer have that second life to go and recycle them and keep the materials there to keep the life cycle going. >> so it's a classification.
▶ 2:11:11>> issue at the epa. >> I think that's a large part for where it starts. Um, in terms of energy storage, yes. If you start out with a classification, epa is 2023 memo on lithium ion batteries said they recommend that companies classify these materials as universal waste, a subset of hazardous waste. Right. When you start there, it starts the whole ball rolling in the wrong direction. So treating these as what they are changes what the regs are form it treats changes the mindset form.
▶ 2:11:40It changes what those who are manufacturing and producing these materials, what they're going to do with them when they no longer need them in the vehicle and put them on the right path so that they can use for second life energy storage, and then eventually for recycling. In this country. >> the mindset change is something I want to explore a little bit more. This morning we had a hearing different subcommittee with the nuclear energy regulatory commission. All five commissioners were here.
▶ 2:12:05They talked about that agency changing from, um, being a regulatory mindset to having an enabling mindset and that it has been a sea change in the agency by all the employees. I'd like each of you to just briefly have two minutes each get about 30s talk about if you were to, uh, advise epa to become an enabling agency, what would that mean? What would that look like? Where should they start? And we'll just go down the line.
▶ 2:12:35>> prioritization for what's important with a regulatory pathway that's got clearly defined timelines, responsibilities. And I agree that culture change is really important. And streamlining on permitting nepa reviews. That's another one. >> yeah. Excellent. Doctor spiller. >> I think, um, you know, cross-agency collaborations probably going to be really important, making sure that um, there isn't, you know.
▶ 2:13:00Really focusing in on some of the issues that redwood was talking about, you know, that there isn't a cross, um, agency issues, uh, that, that contradict each other, basically. >> miss neil.
▶ 2:13:22>> speaking in, in the framework of recycling, I think it's very important for the agency to really think about what the recycling process is trying to accomplish and, and focus on the realities of the situation. Um, we'll say, um, not go form over function, but really try to promote, um, you know, the recycling and the reclamation that's available to us. Very good.
▶ 2:13:49>> I'd echo a lot of what's been said, you know, the agency and, and inter division within the agency alignment prioritization of those materials that are critical to this country. Um, I'd also say looking towards that end goal by comparison, you know, in the state where I operate, nevada, we've worked with the ndp over there and had them adopt the federal hazardous secondary materials, uh, exclusion, uh, which they did not have before.
▶ 2:14:16And we did that in concert and recognizing, hey, you get all the protections you want, but we get more flexibility from it. So we need more of that on the federal level. >> excellent. Thank you. Thank you all again for being here. I yield back, chair. >> now recognize the distinguished representative from the state of texas, Mr. weber, for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I'm going to fuss at miss check because she stole some of my questions. So I know she had some good ones. And so I want to come to you, Mr. gutkin.
▶ 2:14:42First of the 50 critical minerals identified in 2022, 49 are essential to the energy sector. My district 14, the gulf coast of texas provides a lot of energy, obviously. Unfortunately, we rely on china for 26 of those minerals. The us once led the world in producing rare refining and rare earth mineral elements. So today, china controls nearly 90% of global rare earth. We've all talked about them. Processing has become has demonstrated a willingness to restrict exports.
▶ 2:15:09Exports, in your opinion, exactly how dependent are we on china for critical minerals to secure our energy infrastructure? National security a and b? If you could wave a magic wand, how would you fix that? >> all right, let me pull up my magic wand here. Um, you know, as to how reliant we are. I think I mentioned before that china controls more than 80% of the global, uh, lithium ion recycling capacity.
▶ 2:15:37So I think that says it there. And you were talking about much more than just lithium ion batteries. So it's definitely an issue right now. Uh, it's critical and it's critical that we change it for our critical minerals as far as waving the wand. And what do we do to change that? I think it's again, going and putting the regulations and the policies in place that say, hey, we have some of these materials here.
▶ 2:16:02In the instance of the critical, um, materials like cobalt and lithium and nickel, uh, they're all packaged within the batteries. So if we go and have those policies and regulations that say we prioritize batteries, keep them in the us, recycle them in the us, create the new critical minerals coming out of them, and then keep the cycle going within the us. That's how you do it. >> miss neal, would you agree with what he just said? >> I absolutely would agree with what he said.
▶ 2:16:30I'd like to expand on it. Just a moment, if I could. >> yes, ma'am. >> um, really, I would like to look at what we should not be doing. Um, and that is in large part. >> have you been talking to my wife? And so go ahead. >> that is in large part what's happened to amg vanadium. Now, Mr. kim was talking about the challenges of securing the permits. Amg went through that process 20 years ago. We've been operating for 20 years under the regulations, with our permits and our variances.
▶ 2:16:59And now we've got, um, members of the region, five staff who have decided to interpret the regulations differently. So his challenges are upfront. Our challenges are when we're well founded. >> max miller, I'm gonna jump over to you. If we could wave that magic wand, the way they're describing things, what one single thing would you do up front very quickly.
▶ 2:17:27>> to reduce our reliance on china? >> well, that's part of it. And bring all the agencies together so that we can actually fix make america first. We'll use that term. What would you do? The first thing. >> uh, to bring all of our agencies together. >> that's right. >> I would increase the staffing. >> okay, well, that's fair enough. Mr. lim, how about you?
▶ 2:17:53>> untenably reliant and the first thing is just doubling down on on the projects that are underway and in particular the midstream for the industry. Uh, you know, the rare earth metal making, uh, is, is a key shortfall that we see. Uh, you know, that's why we've, we've partnered to commercialize, uh, technology out of ames national lab. >> thank you that I saved you for last for a reason.
▶ 2:18:17Your testimony outlines the complex challenges for future investments within the current regulatory framework, limiting federal overreach is that restrict gains in capital investments is critical to incentivizing investments in essential sectors like critical mineral extraction, for example. How can we navigate the current burdensome regulatory environments to free up investors willing to deploy capital, to reassert our dominance in that global supply chain? What would you do.
▶ 2:18:49>> utilizing tools like the defense production act or office of strategic? >> we want to get those willing to make investments to feel comfortable, and they have to know their money is safe. >> it's also a signal of commitment and importance. Um, it's both, you know, commitment from the government, a patient capital provision to a given project that's going to induce additional private capital investment that would have otherwise not invested given those timelines that we were referencing.
▶ 2:19:16>> so as they described bringing all these agencies together, would you be there and lead up the capital investment discussion? >> uh, I'd be happy to, to engage in that discussion. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I yield back. >> the chair now recognizes the distinguished gentleman from colorado, Mr. evans, for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you. Chairman, ranking member. Um, of course, to the witnesses for coming. Uh, my first question will be to Mr. liman and doctor spiller.
▶ 2:19:42Um, we got studies from the us geological survey that highlight the untapped potential of mine waste as a domestic source of critical minerals, especially from superfund sites. My home state of colorado, we have a ton of significant deposits of critical minerals, niobium, rare earth elements, titanium, tungsten, uranium, vanadium, tellurium, which is essential for defense and for new technologies.
▶ 2:20:10Um, a recent study by researchers at the colorado school of mines found that more efficient, more efficient processing of existing waste streams from us mines could supply much of the critical minerals that the united states currently imports. Um, and so, doctor spiller, how can we what, what recommendations, um, do you have for the federal government and looking into mine waste streams as a source of critical minerals, while also encouraging the remediation of these sites?
▶ 2:20:40>> well, this is a great opportunity, but unfortunately, these are really uneconomical to extract. So I think the question is, you know, what are the approaches to to increase the economic potential for extracting these resources? Uh, you know, what are the innovative approaches to reduce the, the costs? We also don't have a good sense of what the costs are.
▶ 2:21:03So more research, I think, into quantifying those costs and, um, you know, investing in innovative techniques to be able to extract them. >> so Mr. liman, similar question, how can we support the epa both through regulatory burden and then also the cost component of this, um, by being able to address some of these legacy sites that already have to be cleaned up under superfund and be able to, to make use of those waste streams in a better manner.
▶ 2:21:31>> uh, the labs have done a lot of work as it relates to, to reclamation, reclamation on sites like that. But again, the concentrations and what's going to be economic is, is one of the following points. But, uh, if there, if there is a scalable approach, um, I think there's a key need to leverage the r&d complex that we have in our labs and commercialize technologies that are going to innovate and leapfrog because the current state of the technology is 40 years old from when we offshored it originally.
▶ 2:22:02Um, but in terms of helping the epa, the ask would be if we have a clear business case here to commercialize the technology, work expeditiously with us to get that done. >> and so let's say for the sake of argument, you have that compelling business case. And so we're going to be facing it sounds like two barriers. The cost barrier. Um, assuming the cost barrier could be addressed, how fast could we overcome that given the appropriate permitting and regulatory environment?
▶ 2:22:30And are there any changes that would be needed in the regulatory space to help make it more cost efficient? >> I mean, I've highlighted a couple getting into the the fastest, most expedient track possible and giving it the strategic prioritization that these types of projects deserve is really important. Uh, like I'm not suggesting skipping key steps. I'm suggesting prioritizing and allocating the accountabilities, timelines, responsibilities to get it done. >> thank you. Uh, Mr. gutkin.
▶ 2:23:02So I'm going to come to you next. Um, batteries, we got to make more batteries. We got to make more batteries in the united states. Um, I have, uh, one of the last all us source battery manufacturers in my district. I'm happy to work with some of my colleagues across the aisle. Rep ruiz we've got the critical minerals and manufacturing support act to make sure that we're doing work to continue to promote this critical industry here. Um, from colorado, we also have lots of, unfortunately, wildfires in the state of colorado.
▶ 2:23:31So what sort of policies, um, can we do to, to make sure that if there are battery components or batteries themselves, whether small scale or grid scale batteries that are damaged, uh, in wildfire or other natural disasters, what sort of policies or recommendations do we need to do to be able to recover those better? >> so if I understand your question directly, it's about batteries impacted by wildfires and how we address those currently.
▶ 2:23:59My understanding is when that's happened, um, california, hawaii have both had some incidents where there's been issues with battery fires and epa comes in and treats those sites as a superfund site. Um, they take control of it and they tightly control what happens with those batteries, uh, who they go to, how they're recycled. And there's a whole process that they go through of auditing the sites and whatnot. Uh, you know, understanding that for the most part, uh, frankly, I don't think all that is necessary.
▶ 2:24:27Um, you know, burnt battery actually for a recycler has the same critical minerals as a brand new battery. And so the process is the same. Um, you know, redwood materials helped out with the maui fires. We are looking to get involved, I believe, to help out with the moss landing material that's there.
▶ 2:24:48And so just by again, cutting through some of the red tape and letting these materials go to those facilities that are able to take them, then we >> we can go in quickly, ramp up the amount of feedstock that those facilities need to go and recover those critical minerals. >> thank you. And I'm out of time, so yield back. >> chair now recognizes distinguished gentleman from ohio, Mr. balderston, for five minutes for his questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you all for being here today.
▶ 2:25:16>> um, I'd also like to welcome my. >> dear friend jane neal, a constituent of the 12th congressional district. Miss neal, thank you very much for participating in today's hearing. Uh, and telling amg story. We've had many discussions over the years about how congress can help expand domestic manufacturing and processing of critical minerals in materials. Can you discuss some of the ongoing regulatory hurdles? Amg is facing and how my bill, h.r.
▶ 2:25:457523, will help provide long term certainty for the domestic production of these critical minerals. >> congressman, thank you for the opportunity to talk about this, and thank you for your support in the bill that you have taken to the house. Um, as I said a few minutes ago, amg vanadium has been processing spent catalyst and reclaiming the vanadium and nickel molybdenum from it for over 20 years.
▶ 2:26:15We've been doing this under a variance, and it has been determined through that entire time as a legal process. Um, recently, members of region five staff have, um, started interpreting the regulation differently and have now determined that or decided that our process is not legitimate recycling, but rather it is
▶ 2:26:48Something more akin to, um, trash disposition. Um, they've made this change without any change in the regulation and without any change in our process. So, um, what we have requested and, um, your bill is going to deliver is some certainty for us. It is clarifying the existing regulations.
▶ 2:27:12It's not, um, deregulating, it's not weakening the, um, the safety and environmental stewardship. The amg is required to provide, but it, it provides us with long term certainty that will allow us to continue this process, which allows us to be the domestic source of fair vanadium for the united states.
▶ 2:27:41So we talk about, you know, the challenges of china. Um, china manufactures over 60% of the global vanadium production. And without amg, everything else gets imported. So you're helping us protect against that risk. >> thank you. The resource, miss neal.
▶ 2:28:04The resource conservation and recovery act was passed to promote resource recovery while protecting human health and the environment. How does amg's process fit into these purposes? >> so spent refinery catalyst was listed as a hazardous waste because it does present significant risk to human health and the environment when it's landfilled. But when it comes to amg for reclamation recycling, it is not landfilled.
▶ 2:28:35And so we're able to alleviate those risks. Um additionally our process has been designed. Our facilities have been designed to, um, be mindful and protective of the environment. So we spent $300 million on our facility in zanesville. And of that, over $100 million was for emission controls. So, you know, we're very, um, quite frankly, proud of that.
▶ 2:29:03We like being stewards of the environment. Um, on the other side of this, the resource recovery is concerned. As I said, we're recovering vanadium providing about 40% of the domestic market. Additionally, we have found beneficial use markets for every other, um, product and byproduct from our process. So we have over 99% conversion from hazardous waste to salable finished goods. >> thank you.
▶ 2:29:32And I'm glad that you brought up the investment. Um, that's my last question. Amg did invest $300 million to build this new plant in my hometown of zanesville, ohio. How a how will a clear regulatory framework help like help companies like amg continue to expand and bring jobs to rural communities? You've got about 20s.
▶ 2:29:54>> well, speaking directly to amg, we are contemplating another expansion into the vanadium oxide and vanadium electrolyte that will supply electrolyte to grid scale batteries to support, um, the energy market. So we need regulatory certainty in order to contemplate that investment. >> thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you. >> gentleman yields. I would like to thank our witnesses for being here today.
▶ 2:30:22Members may have additional written questions for you. I'll remind members that they have ten business days to submit additional questions for the record, and I ask that the witnesses do their best to submit their responses within ten business days. Upon receipt of the questions. I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the documents, including the staff hearing documents list. Without objection, that will be the order. Without objection, the subcommittee is adjourned.