▶ 0:11:30The committee on environment will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recesses of the subcommittee at any time. Welcome to today's hearing entitled a review of the president's fiscal year 2027 budget request for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. I recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement.
▶ 0:11:57Good morning and welcome to our hearing on Noah's budget proposal for fiscal year 2027. I'd like to welcome Noah administrator Dr. Neil Jacobs as our witness this morning to discuss the president's proposed budget for the agency. The president requested $4.4 billion for Noah's budget in fiscal year 27.
▶ 0:12:15This represents a $ 1.1 billion decrease from the discretionary and mandatory funding that Noah was appropriated last year, aligning with this administration's goals of reigning in the excess spending of the previous As a budget request accurately describes, Noah provides the environmental science, information, and services needed to protect the lives, property, and livelihoods of all Therefore, when making budget decisions, we should be guided by a simple question.
▶ 0:12:43Does this program, project, or activity advance that mission? This year's budget includes several initiatives that I support. Expanded procurement of commercially available data is a steadfast position of this committee for many years. This is reflected in the bipartisan weather act reauthorization act of 2025. The committee also believes Noah provides the federal backbone of our forecasting tools.
▶ 0:13:05And by increasing our commercial data buy efforts, we can rapidly expand the pool of available data to improve the accuracy and timeliness of forecasts. I'm pleased to see modest increases to the National Weather Service and O and Office of Marine and Aviation Operations. This budget proposal and restructuring efforts at NWS reflect the goal of both the administration and Congress to create a more nimble and flexible workforce.
▶ 0:13:31The transition of the advanced weather interactive processing system or AWHIPS to the cloud will enable forecasters to live and work across all the country while still maintaining 247 coverage. These two offices are at the forefront of innovation and forecasting that can save lives. My hometown of Lakeland, Florida knows this firsthand. It is home to the aircraft operations center. aircraft based there such as the hurricane hunters are on the front lines of tracking and monitoring severe storms.
▶ 0:14:00I've had the pleasure of taking a ride in Kermit and while it is a distinguished aircraft which is code for old, we must continue modernizing the fleet. Congress has laid its marker down and I look forward to hearing about the progress of how our new C130 and G550 aircraft uh are progressing from Administer Jacobs. I'm also encouraged to see Noah's budget reflect the president's order to establish maritime dominance.
▶ 0:14:23The budget requests an increase of $60 million to accelerate the acquisition of class C vessels and a $75 million increase to advance a fleet of autonomous research vessels. We've held multiple hearings on data gaps in the ocean, including one just weeks ago on deep sea mining. We know there are substantial areas of the ocean where data is lacking and these activities will significantly improve our understanding of ocean conditions to support surface maritime commerce, forecasting, and mining activities.
▶ 0:14:52These two programs are strong examples of how Noah can supplement and even improve its data inventory by partnering with industry to ensure highquality data that is cheaper to obtain through the private sector than for Noah to attempt to collect on its own. If we're looking to save taxpayer money, it seems logical to bolster these programs rather than have Noah try to collect data on its own through expensive buildouts and federally owned instruments. Nonetheless, I remain optimistic about Noah's future.
▶ 0:15:18Congress consistently reinforces Noah's core mission of protecting lives and property, and I appreciated Minister Jacob's engagement on this proposal. I'm confident we will continue working together to advance Noah's mission. I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee for his opening statement. Thank you, Chairman Franklin, for holding this hearing. Uh, and thank you, Dr. Jacobs, for being here before our committee. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or Noah, protects Americans lives, livelihoods, and property.
▶ 0:15:47It's essential for our economy. From the forecast families check before starting their day to the safety of our flights to the fisheries that feed our communities, Noah's work is woven into everyday life. Noah's impact is not always visible, but it is foundational to our everyday lives. Its space weather forecasts help protect astronauts on missions like Aremis 2. Its data supports insurance markets and disaster recovery.
▶ 0:16:15And in Rhode Island, Noah's new marine operations center in Newport will support critical work while creating good paying jobs. Last year, Americans faced billion-dollar disasters. From devastating wildfires in California to catastrophic flooding in Vermont and powerful hurricanes along the Gulf Coast, Noah's data helps communities prepare, stay safe, recover. That's why Trump's fiscal year 2027 budget is so troubling.
▶ 0:16:44A $1.6 billion cut to Noah is not trimming fat. It's cutting to the bone and striking to the core of what keeps Americans safe. It means less data, less accurate forecasts, less time to prepare. And when preparation goes down, costs for families and small businesses go up. And so, let's be very clear, Trump's choices don't happen in a vacuum.
▶ 0:17:06They come while he is making it harder for Americans to get ahead, driving up costs while pulling back on the very tools that help communities respond to the disasters. Take the proposed elimination of the integrated ocean observing system or IUS. The eyes of our ocean. IUS obser improves hurricane forecast, supports safe navigation, helps coastal communities prepare for flooding.
▶ 0:17:30Shutting it down means less precise for forecast and less time to act, especially for coastal states like my home state of Rhode Island. At a time of rising seas and stronger storms, that's a risk we can't afford. The same goes for the proposed elimination of the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research, including the National Sea Grant Program. For decades, CAG grant has delivered real results to support research, train workers, and strengthen coastal communities.
▶ 0:17:58Last year, Rhode Island Crant supported research on microplastics and Naragans at Bay, training for aquaculture businesses, and dozens of undergraduate and graduate students in their research. In 2024, the seed grant program turned a $94 million federal investment into approximately $1.5 billion in economic b benefits, creating more than 2,000 new businesses and 21,000 jobs.
▶ 0:18:25The elimination of Noah se grants would strike a blow to Rhode Island's nent blue economy and the thriving communities across the country that depend on these jobs and these Cutting that is not saving money. It's costing us opportunity. Budgets are about priorities. And this one sends the wrong message. Less preparedness, more risk, and higher costs for the American people. We should be investing in the tools that keep people safe, not tearing them down.
▶ 0:18:56And finally, Dr. Jacobs, I I want to address uh Noah's lack of responsiveness. Collectively, we sent several letters last year seeking answers on the administration's priorities and received virtually no reply. I personally sent seven letters. We received one response. So, and that was 9 months later. Got to do better. Period. That's unacceptable. So, Congress can't adequately represent our constituents if agencies don't respond.
▶ 0:19:25And agencies aren't doing their job if they don't respond. So, we've got to fix this. I expect timely, transparent communications going forward and I expect honest answers to our outstanding requests without delay. We're working together on behalf of an important agency that is important to lives, livelihood, property, to our economy. So, Dr. Jacobs, I look forward to discussing how Noah can meet its mission and protect the American people despite what I describe as harmful proposals and terminations.
▶ 0:19:56Thank you, and I yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member Ramo. I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, Dr. Bab.
▶ 0:20:04Good morning, and uh thank you to our subcommittee chairman, Mr. Franklin, uh for presiding over this important hearing. I want to thank you, Administrator Jacobs, for being here today. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or Noah is a unique agency that sits at the intersection of science, operations, and regulations.
▶ 0:20:24From daily forecast, severe storm warnings, and earth monitoring, Noah is on the front lines of protecting Americans by providing essential information needed to take preventive measure measures against life-threatening weather events.
▶ 0:20:39The products and services that Noah provides to support fisheries, coastal restoration, and marine commerce impact more than onethird of our gross domestic Since [clears throat] becoming chairman of this committee, we have held numerous hearings focused on Noah. From ocean technologies and deep sea mining to weather forecasting and importance of weather satellites to our national security.
▶ 0:21:04Last September, we passed the Weather Act Reauthorization Act of 2025, clarifying the committee's priorities for Noah's weather monitoring and science activities. We are closely following the Senate's movements on this legislation. I'm very encouraged to see that the language in these two bills is not very far apart. The fiscal year 27 budget request is remarkably similar to the fiscal year 26 proposal.
▶ 0:21:31The enacted levels in the 20 uh uh fiscal year 26 appropriations package signal that Congress did not support the proposed direction for Noah. The appropriations committee is marking up its bill tomorrow and it will likely reflect the same position. And while I appreciate the work the administrator has done on this budget, it is time to work together to find common ground. Noah's science activities are at the core of his success.
▶ 0:21:59I am keenly aware of the challenges of transitioning research to operations and that's why Congress must ensure that Noah's reorganization preserves critical research capabilities and does not dilute operational effectiveness. Noah's research activities are essential to its mission of protecting lives and property. Noah does not have the budget of some larger agencies.
▶ 0:22:23So, it needs focused operational offices to provide the products and services that are vital to this country's safety and economic prosperity. I am pleased to see that the budget request included robust support for the National Weather Service. Ensuring the National Weather Service is funded and fully staffed has been one of my top priorities since becoming chairman. However, I question the proposal to eliminate research grants related to stream flow and rainfall.
▶ 0:22:52These grants support improving precipitation forecasts linking atmospheric and hydraologic models, reducing errors and extreme events such as flash floods and atmospheric rivers and helping to develop flash flood guidance and other flood risk products.
▶ 0:23:09After the catastrophic events in Kirk County, Texas last July 4th, I am particularly sensitive to efforts to improve flash flood watches, warnings, and decision support uh products that inform timely evacuations. The National Weather Service performed well in forecasting those events last summer. I am concerned that eliminating these grants would sty future improvements. Let us not forget that Noah's primary mission is to protect lives and property.
▶ 0:23:40I do not believe this budget request meets the president's expectations for that core mission. Again, I want to thank the administrator for being here to discuss with the committee what Noah's PR priority should be and I hope that we can find a workable path forward that best serves the American people. That Mr. Chairman, I yield back balance of my time.
▶ 0:24:01Thank you, Chairman Babin. Now recognize the ranking member, Miss Lofrren of the full committee for her state.
▶ 0:24:07Well, thank you, Chairman Franklin, and ranking member Amo for this hearing, as well as uh you, Dr. Jacobs, for appearing before us today. Members of this committee, we uh understand the importance and significance of Noah. Tasked with providing critical information for our communities to prepare and respond and adapt to severe weather events and the changing environment while managing and protecting our nation's coastal and ocean resources.
▶ 0:24:36Noah is an important agency, but it's not clear that the Trump administration recognizes uh or values the importance of Noah. The president's fiscal year 2027 budget request would cut Noah's budget by more than 26%.
▶ 0:24:53As the chairman noted, uh like 20 the 2026 request, uh it attempts to get rid of the office of oceanic and atmospheric research, terminate critical research programs, and closes cooperative institutes and research labs that support Noah's mission.
▶ 0:25:12Now, just last month, the Cooperative Institute for Research in the Atmosphere developed a cuttingedge forecast system that's going to improve precipitation forecasts of atmospheric rivers in the San Francisco Bay area.
▶ 0:25:26Experts at the University of California, San Diego, and Cal uh Colorado State University worked with Noah to develop an advanced rainfall forecast system that gives emermergency managers and water agencies in the Bay Area more accurate and timely warnings about potential flooding and runoff from heavy rainfall events.
▶ 0:25:48This is important not only to protect uh against flooding but in the future may also help conserve um water from extraordinary events for use during dry periods.
▶ 0:26:03It's also it's already been incorporated into the National uh weather service toolbox and this is timely uh given that Noah's climate prediction center also slated to be cut indicated that a super El Nino is probably going to emerge this summer in the Pacific.
▶ 0:26:22To further show what the 2027 budget request is attempting to eliminate, the Trump administration wants to close the atmosphological laboratory. And now we know why it's AOML um and the National Severe Storms Laboratory. AOML is home to the hurricane research division which aid aids Noah in improving the understanding and prediction of a hurricane's track intensity and structure.
▶ 0:26:52The National Severe Storms Laboratory improves the understanding and prediction of severe weather, most notably tornadoes. This lab developed the radar the National Weather Service uses to uh today to detect hail and tornado circulation. That's what's going on right today in the Midwest. These labs are among the few dozen research facilities that make up the backbone of Noah's operations.
▶ 0:27:17Yet, the Trump administration suggest terminating them in the name of quote eliminating funding for the globalist climate agenda," unquote. Now, by its own admission, Noah states that these labs and cooperative institutes advance the National Weather Services prediction capabilities improve its ability to provide more accurate and timely warnings and forecast for life-threatening weather events. Hardly a political agenda.
▶ 0:27:45Cutting programs that improve hurricane and tornado forecasting is the very definition of punny pennywise and pound foolish. Now, while Noah's labs and cooperative institutes provide the research and development of new and improved forecasting tools, it's Noah's operational environmental satellite system that provides the foundational data in weather and climate models. Decisions made now are going to affect forecasting capabilities for decades.
▶ 0:28:14Nevertheless, the Trump administration abruptly undermined a well vetted and scientifically backed plan by cancelling contracts and cha changing the system infrastructure without any real analysis that we could see uh without assessment and certainly without uh notifying Congress. Now, these decisions were made before uh your confirmation, Dr. Jacobs. I recognize that.
▶ 0:28:38But I look forward to working with you to ensure there's no further lapse in communication and that we have a better partnership moving forward. We can see the improvements and successes of our nation's forecasting capabilities due to investments in research and technology. And Dr. Jacobs, I believe you can agree there's still more work that needs to be done. This year we have already seen several weather disasters that have unfortunately caused the loss of life. this proposed budget won't help.
▶ 0:29:08Uh we can do better. I and I and I hope we will. With that, uh Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 0:29:14Thank you, Ranking Member Lawren. Now, let me introduce our witness today. Dr. Neil Jacobs currently serves as the under secretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere and no administrator. In this role, he provides strategic direction and oversight for more than $6 billion in annual spending, including investments in space innovation, autonomous systems, artificial intelligence, deep sea exploration, and numerical weather prediction while developing industry partnerships to study the oceans, address the seafood trade imbalance, and support US commercial
▶ 0:29:44and recreational fishing. Dr. Jacobs also previously uh served as both acting under secretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere and assistant secretary of commerce for an environmental observations and prediction under the first Trump administration. I now recognize Dr. Jacobs for five minutes to present his
▶ 0:30:05Chairman Franklin, ranking member Amo, Chairman Babin, and Ranking Member Lafrren, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's fiscal year 2027 budget. Noah has a unique mission that spans the seafloor to the sun surface. Not only do they conduct cutting edge research, but they also provide life-saving forecast and predictions of a wide range of environmental phenomena.
▶ 0:30:32On behalf of the agency, I want to thank this subcommittee for your long-standing bipartisan support for FY27. Noah is requesting 4.54 billion in discretionary appropriations. In FY27, Noah will continue to leverage partnerships to spur innovation in weather and space enterprises and grow the American maritime economy.
▶ 0:30:55These activities will drive business growth and more effectively enable business enhancement and will continue to advance Noah's mission of science, service, and stewardship. Our fleet of specialized ships, aircraft, and uncrrewed systems are critical for American environmental intelligence. In support of Noah's fleet, we are requesting 60 million to accelerate the acquisition of class C vessel.
▶ 0:31:19Further, no requests an increase of 75 million to initiate a fleet of uncrrewed system platforms to enable efficient surveys of our coast, address data gaps, and propel a stronger ocean economy. Noah also manages the nation's civil operational environmental satellites. The FY27 budget request supports the continuity of these critical environmental data while focusing on our core weather mission through geostationary extended observations or GOXO.
▶ 0:31:49In addition, Noah request an increase to support activities related to the development and implementation of the near-earth orbit network which will serve as the next generation of polar orbiting NOA will also continue to expand data acquisition efforts to more fully utilize space-based commercial data where they meet NOA emission needs. Furthermore, the FY27 budget request transfers the Office of Space Commerce to the Department of Commerce as a standalone office reporting directly to the Secretary.
▶ 0:32:19The FY27 budget request will better enable modernization and transformation of the National Weather Service by pursuing key investments that support its core mission and transformation efforts. The National Weather Service continues to produce operational forecasts, warnings, impactbased decision support services and other life-saving products and services to the emergency management community and public as they prepare and respond to increasingly frequent severe weather and water events.
▶ 0:32:47Our current radar system is at risk of not being able to maintain targeted availability by 2030, which would significantly impact the ability of the National Weather Service to provide life-saving warnings and support services to core partners and emergency managers. The Radar Next program will ensure continuity of operations, expanding coverage and improve performance, enabling forecasters to improve the lead times and accuracy of warnings for high impact weather events.
▶ 0:33:14In addition, Noah will continue the transformation of the advanced weather interactive processing system known as AWHIPS to a cloud-based framework to enable forecasters to provide secure on-site support services wherever and whenever severe weather threatens. No will drive greater economic benefits, strengthen national security, and deepen partnerships with the commercial weather enterprise into the future.
▶ 0:33:39In FY27, no will advance and support the United States as a global leader in responsible seabed and mineral exploration and commercial recovery. An increase is proposed to build upon our established licensing and permitting authority and framework to sustain deep seabed hard mineral resource act licensing and permitting capacity. No will use artificial intelligence and other technological solutions to increase efficiency in unleashing the ocean economy.
▶ 0:34:08Through this budget, no will address the current and emerging needs of the nation, aiming to help unleash American energy, leverage innovation in the weather and space enterprises, protect life from property, and enable to promote economic growth. I look forward to working closely with all of you in discussing Noah's mission more today. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
▶ 0:34:29Thank you, Dr. Jacobs. And I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. The oceans cover more than 70% of the planet and underpin the global economy, shaping food production, weather, energy, and trade. They also represent the United States largest and most researchrich frontier. Yet, despite this dependence, much of our ocean remains unexplored. Only 54% of the US exclusive economic zone has been mapped to modern standards, leaving roughly 1.8 million square nonical miles of sovereign territory unchartered.
▶ 0:35:00Uncharted. Uh, your fiscal year 27 budget proposes a $75 million increase to expand unmanned surface vessel capacity. How does Noah plan to execute this quickly? And specifically, what capabilities are being prioritized? And is Noah prepared to rapidly procure proven systems at scale?
▶ 0:35:20Uh, thank you for the question. Um, so we're looking at at kind of a two-pronged approach. The first one is data acquisition through autonomous systems. And this would be something if we're going to be mapping or collecting data once, it would make more sense to buy the data than to actually buy the asset. For other things where we're mapping it on on a regular basis, like doing fishery surveys, we're actually looking to procure the autonomous systems.
▶ 0:35:48And so this is consistent with the ship building executive order. Um, we haven't fully scoped out exactly the type of system yet, but a lot of these would be either subsurface or on the Okay. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, Noah's aircraft operations center is an integral part in my home community, and these crews collect frontline data from severe storms to help ensure Flidians and all Americans are prepared.
▶ 0:36:14The current fleet of aircraft is outdated and in need of modernization, and Congress has provided funding through supplemental appropriations. Can you walk us through the current progress on the new hurricane hunters and and what will distinguish this new fleet from the one currently in operation and also how will you address the research to operations pipeline challenges that can delay the deployment of new introductions like
▶ 0:36:37Um so there's again this is probably a two-pronged approach as well. So we're procuring two different types of airborne assets. We have uh two G550s which are the high altitude jets. One of them uh we're going to get later this year. The other one we're expecting in Uh those are actually the ones that fly over the storm and then drop instruments through the storm.
▶ 0:37:00And then we have two uh C130s that we've already initiated the procurement of uh the timeline is is on schedule on budget. It um it actually that kicked off of March, so last month down at Lockheed's facility. Um, we're expecting these delivery by 2030, so should be before the end of the uh expected life of the P uh the P3s.
▶ 0:37:25Um, these will actually fly into the storm and deploy drops as well as drones. So, we we're acquiring a fleet of small drones that we drop from these planes and they fly around inside the storm and collect data. It's it's much more efficient than an actual drop. Um, and most likely as far as the radar goes, we'll put pods on the wings to do radar because you can't really put a tail doppler radar on a C130.
▶ 0:37:54So that's that's sort of the way the the mix of the airborne assets are going looking With a little time we have left, I know some some say these aircraft stay parked when it's not hurricane season. Could you just in the little time we have left talk about some of the other missions these aircraft are flying throughout the rest of the year and where they do those around the world?
▶ 0:38:12Sure. they uh they fly all over. So, a lot of times when they're not doing when they're not flying into hurricanes, they're collecting data elsewhere uh and one of the missions that a lot of the the planes fly is for atmospheric rivers in in the Pacific. So, they will collect data and do drop zons in the Pacific as well. And usually the the seasonality of those are kind of the other half of the season from the hurricane season. So, they can go back and forth and do both,
▶ 0:38:41right? Uh that's all I have for now. Thank you, Dr. Jacobs, I now recognize a ranking member from Rhode Island for five minutes of questions.
▶ 0:38:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Dr. Jacobs, with reference to my uh opening statement, will you make a commitment to the agency having a prompt response to member letters and moving forward, will you commit to timely, consistent communication with committee members?
▶ 0:39:05Yeah, absolutely. I um I I would look forward to working with you. I encourage everyone here to just feel free to reach out to me directly
▶ 0:39:13um and really look forward to that great
▶ 0:39:16Great. Thank you and I appreciate that and I will certainly take advantage of that offer. Uh let me turn to the budget. Uh the president's budget request uh proposes cutting $1.6 6 billion from Noah's O operations, research, and grant programs that is administration has capriciously determined are part of the so-called green news scam uh which they claim radicalizes students and spreads baseless environmental alarm. Dr.
▶ 0:39:40Jacobs, what were the criteria used to determine which programs were going to be axed because they were part of a so-called green news scam? And were any career Noah scientists or technical experts involved in that evaluation? or was it driven by political appointees?
▶ 0:39:56So the budget that we put together really focused on protecting life from property and a lot of the aspects of the research uh within OAR there's some really early stage research and then more what I would call like applied operational research and that is actually transferred to the ocean service and the weather service. So you'll see a decrease uh in some of that on the research side, but we're actually transitioning a lot of that to the operations side.
▶ 0:40:24So it's it's still going towards the mission of protecting life and property
▶ 0:40:28and and who's making those decisions?
▶ 0:40:32Well, what we we work backwards from like the mission requirements. So we have mission requirements solely focused on the protection of life and property and then we look to see what different pieces of information or work development work applied research go directly to those and those are how we we sort of rank what the needs are. So it's driven by the operational side of the mission.
▶ 0:40:56Okay. Uh, Chairman Franklin and I introduced the bipartisan uh, Noah Global Ocean uh, and Monitoring Research Act to strengthen uh, ocean observation and research. But the president's proposed FY27 budget does the opposite. It eliminates ocean research and observation systems like those authorized in our bill and cuts personnel who support the sustained ocean observations and monitoring program. The goal of of this part of the president's budget is frankly pretty bleak and painfully clear.
▶ 0:41:25It reads that the aim is to continue delivering minimal ocean data. Minimal. So just so we we see how uh harmful that word is. Minimal doesn't cut it for fishermen trying to make a live living. Minimal doesn't cut it for coastal communities preparing for storms. Minimal doesn't cut it for states like Rhode Island that depend on the ocean economy. So Dr. Jacobs, my my uh ask to you is will you commit to maintaining our current level of ocean observation?
▶ 0:41:53And if not, what is the minimum level that Congress and the American people should expect?
▶ 0:41:59Again, I would work backwards from making sure that we meet the mission requirements. So there's there's trade-offs here. We can augment certain types of data with other types of data. The volume might be different, the quality, the accuracy might be different. These are all trade-offs. There's a lot of things we can do from space now that we couldn't five or 10 years ago that we would have to do from in sichu type observing systems. So these are all trade-offs that we're looking at.
▶ 0:42:27But trade-offs should not suggest that there's a reduction in in the type of data that was provided. So that's the commitment I'm seeking from you is to is to go beyond some minimal standard that was uh put forward in the president's budget. I so will you commit to
▶ 0:42:42I will commit to making sure that we as accurate if not more accurate forecast products and services going forward. The data that we collect to drive those may change over time in both volume and quality and accuracy.
▶ 0:43:00So I guess my question for you ultimately and and you will use the rest of my time with this if if Noah is operating at you know minimal you'd say adequate and accurate you know my question is how will you provide the fisheries data uh storm tracking and ocean monitoring that our fishermen businesses and communities uh rely on especially when we all know that the risks are increasing. So could you please uh
▶ 0:43:26Sure. Well, so um GOMO is a good example. So the sustained ocean obsitoring aspect of the budget is just that's in the that's just moved to the ocean surface. So we we maintain a lot of this stuff and we're actually going to be making more of the data available because we're putting it all on the cloud through Nest and NCI. So this is this is important not just for us because we generate products and services for this, but there's a lot of stakeholders that also use this data that generate products and services. We're going to make all that available.
▶ 0:43:57Thank you. I yield back. Gentleman yields. Um I recognize myself for five minutes. Dr. Jacobs, thanks again for for being here with us. Less than two weeks ago, a [clears throat] series of tornadoes near Kansas [snorts] City, Kansas developed without any prior notification from the National Weather Service. Many sources are citing that this lapse occurred because weather balloons that are typically launched at 7:00 a.m.
▶ 0:44:27were not released until noon, substantially reducing the accuracy of the forecast for this particular storm. What were the circumstances that led to that launch of vital sensors 5 hours later than usual? And was that the reason that we were were unable to uh uh make a a wise guess
▶ 0:44:48Uh thank you for the question. So I went back and looked at this data and looked at the forecast analysis myself. Uh the timing of the balloon launches. So there's two separate things here. The the first easy answer is no. It didn't have an impact in the forecast. There are certain convective events that spin up really quick. And as soon as it shows up on radar, the forecasters instantly issue a tornado warning. It's not necessarily uncommon to have warnings issued outside of a watch zone.
▶ 0:45:16the the radio son that that was in question was I believe the Dodge City radio son. So there's radio songs the weather balloons we launch them twice a day. Typically they're at 0 and 12Z or 7 a.m. 7:00 p.m. 8 a.m. 8:00 p.m. depending on the time zone. That's always been done because we used to just run the global weather models twice a day at that same time.
▶ 0:45:38It's actually for for forecasting severe tornatic conditions, which usually occur late afternoon and evening, it makes more sense to launch the balloon at 18Z, which is 1 or 2:00 p.m. And that weather forecast office did launch a balloon at 18Z. The tornadoes didn't happen until 700 p.m. So, they had data in advance of that. So, it wasn't the lack of the 7 a.m. radio signed that made a
▶ 0:46:06Gotcha. So, you don't think it had any any effect? And is this going to be a new uh is this a decision that's going to be these balloons are going to be released later in the day? Now, sounds
▶ 0:46:17it it depends on the area. So, in certain areas that happen to be next to busy airports and we have a lot of aircraft data, we might not need to launch the balloon at the same time we had a lot of aircraft data. There's other places where we have uh quadcopters and drones where we can take vertical profiles. So, we're looking at this from beyond just a network of weather balloons, but also different observing assets.
▶ 0:46:40And we're trying to balance it because there are just as accurate observing systems um that are just as uh probably just as sustainable and also cheaper. We can use them more than once. Um so, it's I guess my short answer is it it's almost dependent on the specific location. [clears throat]
▶ 0:47:01Okay. This committee has a long history of bipartisan support for foundational observing programs such as the integrated ocean observing system and Argo as well as mezzanet and now commercial sources of data. However, there are concerns that some uh fiscical year 26 appropriated funds may not yet be reaching the program level on the expected timeline and without access to a spend plan, it is difficult to conduct proper oversight to ensure timely implementation of appropriation laws.
▶ 0:47:32Where does the distribution of FY26 enacted funds stand today?
▶ 0:47:37Uh we are rapidly trying to get the funds out the door and obligated. Um there was uh a backlog of things that that I was working through. Um I'm I'm happy to say that we've we've currently cleared over 1,500 um without any lapse in actual services.
▶ 0:48:00So even though the funds initially were getting out late, we've now got that approval time of of these contracts down to 3.2 days.
▶ 0:48:09Gotcha. Are there any delays in obligating or releasing those funds? And if so, what's the cause uh of these delays? And will Noah provide the committee with spin plans for FY 25 and 26 uh before the appropriations committee marks up the CJS appropriations bill next week.
▶ 0:48:27Uh we will um you know, I'll commit to you to trying to get all the funds obligated before the end of the fiscal year. Uh we just uh as of April 21st, so last week uh gave appropriations committee our spend plans. So um I'll work with you through and the inter agency partners to to get that uh as soon as I can.
▶ 0:48:51Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh and with that, I will recognize the uh full committee chair, chairwoman, uh excuse me, ranking member, Miss Lofkr. Well, thank you for the promotion, Mr. Chair. Um, and thank you, Dr. Jacobs, for your thoughtful uh testimony. Um, during your confirmation hearing, Dr. Jacobs, I I think I understand you stated that you don't think we can spend too much on research.
▶ 0:49:21And I'd like to say I agree with that. Um, I I won't put you on the you are well qualified for this job. You're a scientist. You have a background in this whole field. I won't put you on the spot and ask you to uh publicly uh disown what the administration has proposed to us.
▶ 0:49:40But I I simply will say that the weather and ocean research labs and cooperative institutes that provide the research necessary to improve weather [clears throat] forecasting and coastal resource management uh are important.
▶ 0:49:57And uh you know the budget mentions terminating programs to realign to Noah's mission but the mission which you've said today is to protect lives and property and that requires research as well as operational capacity. Uh all of which uh the administration appears to be suggesting be cut.
▶ 0:50:18Um, last year the administration made significant changes to Noah's next generation of geostationary satellites and they did it without uh, congressional approval or input or as far as I'm aware noticed. I we weren't noticed and I don't know that the chairman was either and as he's mentioned we work in a very bipartisan manner in this committee. I I really expect Noah to communicate transparently with the committee when you're making major changes.
▶ 0:50:47So, can you give us that
▶ 0:50:51No, absolutely. I commit to working with you on this.
▶ 0:50:55Let me uh can you uh tell us when we can expect Noah to send its updated plan in writing for the GOXO program to Um, so we're still working through that right now. I mean, as you've seen, there's there's uh a new plan with the most recent appropriations to do a sounder and imager on all four satellites.
▶ 0:51:22Uh, so that is actually going to uh require a rebaselining. So, we're currently looking at that. Uh, once we get that sorted out, we'll definitely uh brief you on it. What's the status of the lightning
▶ 0:51:38Uh, so there was some there's kind of a a threeprong discussion with this. So we we got conflicting information on actually how many instruments we could put on one satellite and there was some debate of whether the lightning mapper would even fit if we did an imager and sounder.
▶ 0:51:56The other conversation we've had is there are uh industry partners that have expressed interest in launching a lightning mapper in geo and actually selling us the data as a commercial service. So that's potentially one option. Uh there's other companies that are actually collecting information from lightning sensing networks on the ground. So that's another option.
▶ 0:52:22So when we were looking at trying to decide about what the the suite of instruments would be on GOEXO, one of the things that was considered were are there other sources to get similar data and in some cases there were and in other cases there weren't. So that's what went into the selection of some instruments over others. Well, I would hope that we would be doing an analysis of what the ongoing cost would be from a commercial service versus uh obtaining it ourselves.
▶ 0:52:52I'm all for um the commercial sector, but that analysis has to be provided to us in in the future. Um I, you know, Doge came in and did a a real meetax to uh your agency. we've got, I guess, a freeze um that was lifted.
▶ 0:53:18Um, there were 450 people, I believe, who were supposed to be hired. Have Have all those positions been filled?
▶ 0:53:27Um, not yet. So, that uh I believe you're referring to just the weather service, correct? Because we were authorized to hire beyond that. So, there was 450 positions authorized. Uh, 206 of those positions have been sent their uh their final job offer and 204 are on board.
▶ 0:53:49Let me just close. My time is almost up, but the weather service reorganization plan seems to include downsizing and upsizing staff as the plan doesn't apparently close any offices, but uh I think it's important that all offices are open 24/7.
▶ 0:54:08And can we be assured that the uh WFOs that are slated to downsize their staff are going to provide a higher level of support during extreme weather events, particularly when these events now are lasting for days at a time?
▶ 0:54:25Um, yes. So that's that's the beauty of moving AWIPS to the cloud is it allows us to dynamically ramp up and and down support as needed depending on where the weather's going. So, um, you've got my assurance. We're not closing any forecast offices. We actually opened a new one in Guam. Uh, so 123 now. Um, yeah, 24/7 support. Um, and it's um, it's we're really focused on on making sure that we meet the mission.
▶ 0:54:54And having this flexibility to run AWIPS in the cloud is actually going to give us the ability to have other forecasters help out in certain high impact weather events even more than we've had in the
▶ 0:55:06Thank you, Mr. Chair. My time is expired, so I yield back.
▶ 0:55:09Gentleoman yields. I'd like to recognize uh the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr.
▶ 0:55:17Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Dr. Jacobs, for testifying before this committee today. From facilitating a thriving ocean economy to unleashing offshore critical mineral collection, Noah plays a crucial role in sustaining American maritime dominance. More importantly, Noah serves everyday Americans providing by providing notice of severe storm warnings, ensuring local governments can take necessary precautions to protect their communities.
▶ 0:55:44The president's FY27 budget request makes meaningful investments into these priority areas, demonstrating a commitment to economic growth and the well-being of the American people. I'm very encouraged to see that the budget request proposes a $2 million increase to help the na the National Ocean Service expedite reviews of deep seabed hard mineral resources act exploration licenses and commercial recovery permits associated with
▶ 0:56:15seabed mineral collection. I've emphasized this at previous hearings held by this subcommittee. It is essential that we establish resilient battery supply chains in the homeland. Tennessee's seventh district is seeing massive investments for mid-stream supply chain assets. Yet, America does not have a secure domestic source of critical minerals used for battery manufacturing, a major gap in the upstream portion of the supply chain.
▶ 0:56:42We must provide Noah with the resources necessary to streamline permitting under the deep seabed hard mineral resources act authority so our commercial ecosystem can tap into the vast resources at our disposal in the ocean floor. Dr. Jacobs, over the past year, can you describe the extent to which the National Ocean Service has been able to expedite deep sea exploration licenses and mining
▶ 0:57:09U thank you for the question. So, this uh this is an authority that Noah's had for a long time, but there's to date hasn't been a tremendous amount of commercial interest until the last few years. And uh we're just now working our way through the the permitting and application review process. It's several steps and it's we're very soon going to be having the first applicant complete the entire process.
▶ 0:57:37Uh, and so I guess step one would be we're learning the process and developing as we go and figuring out where sort of the bottlenecks are, where the pain points are, and then trying to make it as efficient as we possibly can going forward. So, we're developing it as we as we go forward and we're learning ways to make it more efficient in the
▶ 0:58:02Thanks. Uh, it's my understanding that the National Ocean Service has received over 12 new permitting applications for for review since the president's executive order last year. How will the proposed $2 million budget in increase ensure that the National Ocean Service is appropriately resourced to accelerate the approval process for deep sea mining
▶ 0:58:24A lot of these permit and it's probably more than that now. Uh a lot of these permits we it's a first come first- serve basis and uh not all of the applicants know what other applicant is before them who's applied for certain areas. So a lot of times it'll have to get sent back if there's already been an applicant for a certain area of seafloor. Um, so this this is part of
▶ 0:58:50building out the system and then actually one of the things that I was really I want to do with this additional investment is have an online portal because we have a lot of questions from applicants who want to know where their application is in the process and I would like them to be able to go online and see where it is because otherwise it's using a lot of our resources trying to field their questions.
▶ 0:59:15Great. Thank Thanks, Dr. Jacobs. Thanks for your leadership. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 0:59:22I'd like to recognize the gentleoman from uh Oregon, Miss Bonamichi for
▶ 0:59:27Thank you. Nice to see you, Dr. Jacobs. Welcome back to the committee. So, I represent Northwest Oregon, which includes a significant part of the beautiful Oregon coast, and know that Noah protects lives and property through science and also building partnerships that improve real-time decisions. Noah Science is why coastal Oregonians might have a few extra minutes to evacuate during a tsunami. It's why pilots crossing the Columbia River Bar can navigate the most dangerous route in the country and still arrive safely at port.
▶ 0:59:54And it's why farmers and shellfish growers and families stay resilient despite worsening drought, warmer waters, and more severe wildfires. The administration's budget would redefine Noah's role by cutting the science and partnerships that make those outcomes possible and replacing them with what looks to be a narrower model built on consolidation and some private substitutes. And the budget again seeks to eliminate the office of oceanic and atmospheric research.
▶ 1:00:20That's next generation weather forecasting, ocean exploration, marine heatwave and coastal hazard prediction, advanced fire weather research, and more. So, Dr. Jacobs, which research areas would you need to slow down or abandon under this
▶ 1:00:37I don't think there's really not any areas necessarily that would be abandoned. Some would be accelerated. Uh, a lot of the the priorities that that I have, especially stuff that is developed in OAR, is transitioning into operations with weather forecasting. So, we're going to be doing some model development and consolidation on the weather forecast. And right now, we run a suite of a lot of different models. Some forecasting for hurricanes, some medium-range weather, some high-res convection weather.
▶ 1:01:07So, the idea is to combine a lot of those. So, like for example, some of the hurricane forecast models which are developed in one of the labs, those are run operationally by the weather service. And then the one of the other labs, for example, the the the severe storms lab does a lot of the the high-res convection warn that stuff is also transition to the weather service.
▶ 1:01:31So So I just want to make sure I understand this. So what you're saying is if the office of oceanic and atmospheric research is eliminated, the research will still be done. Is that what you're saying? Well, this there's if you look at the way the OAR budget is structured, the the PPAs fund extramaral research and internal research. So, what we're proposing to do is actually transfer a lot of the internal research to the operational offices. It's really the extra mural research that's going to get cut.
▶ 1:02:01Thank you. And uh Noah's work is demanding. We know in the best of circumstances, but during the past year, the workforce has been pushed to the edge. I know morale has taken a hit. Cracks have started to show. This proposal would add to this train. It's my understanding. It would mean about 1,400 staff positions would be cut. Uh Lois Noah's lost a couple thousand staff since last year, most of which were at the Noah Fisheries and National Weather Service.
▶ 1:02:26And these reductions have delayed fishtock assessments, reduced weather balloon launches, and led to unreported flood warnings. So, how will you prevent further disruption to Noah's important work that keeps our community safe under this budget?
▶ 1:02:39Uh, so we um you know, like I was saying earlier about the weather service, I did want to touch on other aspects of Noah. So, agencywide, we've um we've been cleared to hire uh 840 uh scientists, engineers. The focus is really on u early career uh STEM type uh scientist to support the mission.
▶ 1:03:02And so this, you know, while we went out the door first with the weather service and because they actually uh had direct hiring authority, you're going to be see job postings for a lot of other aspects of Noah, including in the research here.
▶ 1:03:17And and I want to follow up on ranking member Lrren's question. We've been told that the weather service will remain fully staffed even though uh there will be some reorganization on automation. How will this plan change baseline staffing at local offices like in Portland and Pendleton, Oregon? I I mean I don't I don't think it's really going to change uh the historical staffing levels. It's we're going to be moving people around so that the support is not like less people.
▶ 1:03:47It's being able to add virtually more people on top of that from other offices to support. So it's additive. if it's if we're not like
▶ 1:03:55appreciate that. Um and and one more question, Dr. Jacobs, you know, I've been working on addressing the issue of sexual harassment and assault, uh which has been particularly challenging on Noah vessels for women scientists. Progress has been made, and I thank you for your commitment over the years, as has every Noah administrator since Dr. Sullivan really put the plans into place on this important effort. Is there anything in this budget that would be a barrier to continuing this important work? No, not at all.
▶ 1:04:23The the the SASH and and the workplace violence prevention program was a top priority of mine when I was uh here last time and thank you for your support in getting that program stood up. Um I think we actually are going to really really improve things on that and and I'll tell you why.
▶ 1:04:43If you look at the distribution of these incidents, by and large, most of them are in the fisheries observer program and there's a lot of things we can do with electronic catch monitoring now with video and AI where we don't necessarily even need to put a person on the boat.
▶ 1:05:01And there's so many reasons why I think that this is a good idea, not just from operational efficiency and better management of the fisheries, but also I I just looked at at the most recent SAS report, which is going to be headed your way soon. I probably 80 to 90% of the incidents are fisheries observers.
▶ 1:05:21Well, thank you for your commitment to the program, and I yield back.
▶ 1:05:24The gentleman's time is expired. At this time, the chair recognizes himself for five minutes. Dr. Jacobs, this budget reflects some significant trade-offs, what appear to be significant trade-offs, reducing research and observation capacity while prioritizing operational forecasting. Can you talk a little bit about what capabilities is accepting more risk in under this proposed budget?
▶ 1:05:55yeah, like you said, these are largely tradeoffs and so we're not we're not accepting more risk in the products and services. So while we may focus additional resources and development on certain aspects of this whether it's weather forecasting or observing system that might allow us to focus less resources on others but it's a trade-off and at the end of the day and every choice has a cost.
▶ 1:06:25What are you choosing to do less well or accept more risk in I guess is my my question. probably more risk would would largely be accepted more on the basic research side that the lower readiness levels. We're really focused on higher readiness levels. A lot of development investment that's for things that are ready to transition to Um yeah, so that if that's where that's if you actually look at the the finances of budget, that's where the trade-offs
▶ 1:06:52Okay. Can you talk a little bit about Noah's forecasting capability? Uh my understanding is it depends not just on operations but on a researched operations pipeline that includes academic and external partners such as ENCAR in in my home state of Colorado. How will Noah maintain that pipeline under this budget particularly as research functions are reorganized?
▶ 1:07:19Uh so there's um well there's there's there's two sides of this two aspects. one is we do a lot of the research development now particularly for the forecast models that we're transitioning to in public facing repositories. So we have a lot of community involvement um very little of which we fund. A lot of this is industry investment. There's a tremendous amount of investment in developing the weather model that we're transitioning to from private sector companies.
▶ 1:07:48Um and the other the other aspect of this is when you look at a lot of the applied research that was going on in Noah. So there was there was this report that the nationalmies produced I don't know how 10 15 years ago called it research to operations transitioning the valley of death because it would it would developed in research never make it to operations. So one of the solutions and approaches this is actually move the research into operations which is what you see in the budget.
▶ 1:08:18We're actually transitioning a lot of applied research into the ocean service and into the weather service. So that uh research operations pipeline will continue then it's going to accelerate. Can you talk a little bit about the uh the the use of the the coordination with private the public private sector data services component of this where do you see the appropriate boundary between public and private roles in when it comes to weather and environmental data.
▶ 1:08:51it probably depends on the data set. So you know we there's no plans to just completely abandon a government backbone. I would view acquisition of of private or commercial data as additive. Uh a lot of these instruments even if we buy the instrument, they're still produced by industry. So whether industry sells us the instrument or the data, it's it's largely the same difference. We would look at it from approaching it from a cost model.
▶ 1:09:17Um it really comes down to uh our capabilities to leverage our data with international data sharing agreements. So we do we do rely on international partners national meth services overseas through the world meteorological organization to share data back and forth. So about 60 to 70% of the data that we get is from other international met centers. So it is
▶ 1:09:42and how do you evaluate that to ensure that it's reliable and accurate? Um, we do we have various secure ingest techniques where we actually scrub the data to make sure there's like nothing nefarious in there. And then we also have ways to calculate the impact of the observing system. And we do this for our own own observing systems too because when we're doing a costbenefit analysis, we want to be able to make future investments in observing systems that provide the most impact.
▶ 1:10:12Okay. I see my time is almost expired, so I'm going to yield the remainder back. And at this time, the chair recognizes the gentleoman from the state of North Carolina, Miss Ross, for five minutes. Miss Ross.
▶ 1:10:23Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking Member Ammo, for holding this very important meeting. And thank you, Dr. Jacobs, for appearing before the committee to discuss the president's wholly inadequate budget request for Noah. I do want to lift up your graduate education at NC State University. Go Packac.
▶ 1:10:45Um we have a great National Weather Service office at NC State um that I visit quite frequently at a time when we've seen devastating weather events in Michigan, Texas, New Mexico, and of course North Carolina, displacing families, damaging infrastructure, and costing lives. were reminded of how necessary and non-negotiable uh Noah's research and hardworking scientists are for the safety of our community.
▶ 1:11:16Based on the president's budget request for fiscal year 2027, however, Noah's overall budget would be cut by more than 26%. Specifically, the president's budget request proposes to eliminate the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research, which we've heard about from um Congresswoman Bonamichi.
▶ 1:11:36Eliminating this funding would zero out funding for many of the labs and cooperative institutes which conduct most of the research and play an important role in operations. Research that this office produces has marketkedly improved National Weather Service forecasts, leading to increased warning time for tornadoes and improved intensity and track projections for hurricanes.
▶ 1:12:06I think we can all agree that more warning time and more accurate projections save lives and property and that such important research should be fully supported and funded. Eliminating these programs is a slap in the face to the communities that rely on them and the scientists who have dedicated their lives to climate research and public safety.
▶ 1:12:32The long-term impacts of these funding cuts, if they are adopted, could be deadly. Noah research is not a luxury. We must preserve and strengthen our weather agencies, not defund them. So, Dr. Jacobs.
▶ 1:12:51The American public trusts the forecasts from the National Weather Services weather forecast offices because they are the local weather, water, and climate experts in the county warning areas. And this trust has been built over 50 years of extensive work with local communities and relationship building with emergency managers and public safety officials.
▶ 1:13:18And I see this both at NC State University and at our um we have a special uh emergency warning system in Wake County, North Carolina, which I helped get some funding for. The potential policy change from the administration might erode public trust and jeopardize the gains made by weather forecast officer offices around the country.
▶ 1:13:45Please explain the proposed National Weather Service plan for transitioning local forecast responsibility to a national center, the weather prediction center. And will this degrade the accuracy of local forecasts, particularly when national experts are not local experts in weather, water, and climate forecasts?
▶ 1:14:09Oh, thank you for the question and thank you for the uh Wolfpack shout out. Um, and yeah, so I actually uh did an internship at that forecast office. So would love to to spend some time there with you if if you have a chance.
▶ 1:14:23We like that.
▶ 1:14:24The um so there's there's a couple different aspects to this this reorganization. U it's it's not going to impact the actual forecast offices. What what what we're transitioning to is a lot of this editing of what they call editing grids to the weather prediction center and that's you know in in the day one to three range.
▶ 1:14:50It's these forecasters are the people that the community trusts and the the this tradeoff in the time that they're spending editing grids is going to be better used for impactbased decision support services.
▶ 1:15:06So my expectation through this change in organization is that these forecasters are going to be spending more time interfacing with the and that's where they're actually valued as far as being the the single authoritative trusted source.
▶ 1:15:23Not only that, but the transition to AWHIPS, uh, which is a cloud-based version of what they would historically have to do in the forecast offices, allows them to deploy and embed either with the emergency managers or elsewhere during an event. So this reorg is going to allow the forecasters to better engage with the community because it frees up their capability to integrate with the emergency management community better and also interact with the public
▶ 1:15:54Well, we will see. Maybe you and I can go visit our office in North Carolina and see how they feel about it. Thank you and I yield back.
▶ 1:16:03Gentleoman's time is expired. At this time, the chair recognizes the gentleoman from the state of New York, Miss Gillan, for five minutes. Miss
▶ 1:16:10Well, thank you, chairman, and thank you, ranking member, and thank you, Dr. Jacobs, for appearing before us today. So, Dr. Jacobs, as you know, one of the reasons our airspace is safe is because of the work of the dedicated National Weather Service aviation meteorologists.
▶ 1:16:25Last August, the GAO found that 13 out of 21 center weather service units at FAA air route traffic control centers nationwide had alarming shortages of NWS meteorologists, posing a serious threat to the safety of our national airspace. Dr. Jacobs, as NOAA administrator, you oversee the NWS.
▶ 1:16:48And here is a map right here behind me showing uh some of the staffing le levels at the CWSUs. The the areas in green are properly staffed. The areas in yellow only have three meteorologists. The areas in orange only have two and the area in red only has one meteorologist staffed. Are the shortages shown on this map acceptable to you?
▶ 1:17:16So the AMDAR AARS program is hugely important and what I can tell you is we're rapidly hiring forecasters. So I I mentioned this earlier. We just got authorized to hire 450 forecasters. We're about halfway through that process now. So we've we've made final job offers to 206 positions. We have 204 more hired and on board.
▶ 1:17:42Um, I would also like to say that a lot of this forecast support for the FAA is funded by the FAA. So, this doesn't come out of our budget.
▶ 1:17:51But do you think that we will address these staffing shortages with the folks that you just mentioned that you hired?
▶ 1:17:58Yeah, like I said, we're we're 247 support. That includes all of the aer drone forecast that we do for aviation as well.
▶ 1:18:08Okay. Um, so will you continue working with my office and with this committee to make sure that we see proper staffing levels at all of these facilities?
▶ 1:18:16Very much look forward to working with
▶ 1:18:18Great. Thank you. Um, and in addition, Dr. Jacobs, Long Island, which I represent, has some of the most popular beaches in the country, and surprise rip currents can prove deadly. RIP currents claim more than a hundred lives each year, which is why we must strengthen NOAA's cap capacity to detect and predict these events. Just this past summer, two swimmers tragically drowned in a fatal rip current in the waters off Jones Beach State Park, which is in my district.
▶ 1:18:46NOAA's integrated ocean observing system works in coordination with the National Weather Service and our local emergency management officials to protect our beachgoers from rip currents. Um, I don't understand why the fiscal year 27 budget request calls for the termination of this program. Um, and so, Dr. Jacobs, with the beach season coming up on Long Island, how does NOAA plan to support our local emergency managers to keep beachgoers and swimmers safe uh, if this program is eliminated?
▶ 1:19:16Um, thank you for the question. So this uh the rip current forecast are are run out of the National Weather Service and it's it's a hugely important product to me just growing up as a surfer and also a close friend of mine and former insect director at the National Weather Service drowned on the Outer Banks from a rip current. Uh it was incredibly tragic. Um we are we are there's a couple different ways we're approaching this.
▶ 1:19:42One is is higher resolution ocean and coastal models which tell us the direction of swell towards the beach. So we could have sideshore current, we could have rip currents. The other thing that we're looking at is actually working with some industry partners that have beach video cameras and using artificial intelligence to actually identify on camera when the rip currents form.
▶ 1:20:05Um, and then in addition to that, just getting the message out to people on how to save yourself from a rip current. Like, don't swim against it. Swim up or down parallel to the beach. It's it's tragic to see how many people get caught in a rip current and panic when it it's it's relatively easy to get out of. And so, I you know, one of the things I would be interested in doing is is probably a messaging campaign
▶ 1:20:30on just getting this information out to the public. Historically, it's been targeted at these coastal communities, but if you look at the at the number of fatalities and rip currents, they're almost always people that aren't from there. They're visiting, and so they're not the ones being exposed to this information like the people in the local community. So, targeting these areas um during tourist season, I think, is really important.
▶ 1:20:57Well, I thank you for your concern and I look forward to working with your office to talk about how we can implement uh some of the technologies you discussed and make sure that our local EMT professionals and lifeguards are aware of how they can work with you as well. Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 1:21:13Gentleman yields. At this time, the chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Meny, for five minutes. Mr.
▶ 1:21:21Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, uh, Mr. Administrator. I represent large portions of Houston, Texas. And in the last decade, my constituents have endured seven federally declared disasters, uh, including the tax day flood of 2016, Hurricane Harvey in 2017, Tropical Storm Alda in 2019, a historic winter freeze in 2021, and of course, Hurricane Barrel in 2024.
▶ 1:21:49Just last week, one of our major highways uh dealt with flooding at dangerous levels. Hurricane Harvey alone caused 125 billion dollars in damage and it dropped more than 60 ines of rain and in places in Texas. We're talking a total of trillions of gallons of water that fell on Houston. That's not bad luck. That's a pattern. And the science says that that pattern is getting worse. Here's what's also true. After Harvey, Noah researchers updated what's called Atlas 14.
▶ 1:22:20That's a review of historic rainfall in the flood map standard that tells local engineers, city planners, and FEMA what a 100red-year storm actually looks like. Noah's updated data showed that we used to call a 100red-year flood something that is now a 25-year flood. The benchmark over time had moved. That research, that data, those scientists are exactly what the proposed budget eliminates.
▶ 1:22:45They collaborate with the National Weather Service to do the research that makes that data possible. The Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research, OAR, the office, this budget zeros out entirely, is the office that produces the foundational science behind the flood forecast, the hurricane tracks, the warnings that save lives in Houston. cutting cutting OAR may save cost but it can also threaten lives and I don't want the city I represent Houston to pay the price.
▶ 1:23:15So that's where my questions are going to be focused today. Um as I mentioned after Hurricane Harvard nor researchers worked with uh folks at OR updated the rainfall data for Texas and gave us more information about the flood map. Uh, if this budget eliminates OAR, my question to you, sir, is who produces the next update? Who keeps the data current and what happens to Houston's flood standards if that research stops?
▶ 1:23:43Um, so thank you uh thank you for the question. Really much appreciate your interest in the flood inundation mapping capability. Um, so we do have a uh a cooperative institute. It's actually funded out of the weather service uh called the cooperative institute for research and operations in hydrarology or Cairo. Uh a lot of the work's done there. A lot of it is done at the national water center and through part of the weather service rigor.
▶ 1:24:10We're actually uh combining the river forecast centers to do a lot of the work with the national water center. Um the this the Harvey case is interesting and it wasn't just in in your state. We actually saw this in North Carolina with Florence as well where you have uh long sustained
▶ 1:24:30in conjunction with sustained onshore flow and and historically there hasn't really been a coupled model that monitors uh storm surge with rainfall. And that's part of the problem is the rain can't drain away when the winds are blowing it inland.
▶ 1:24:46So one of the priorities that I have with with consolidating some of the modeling systems in the ocean service as well as in the weather service is having a coupled single model where we can look at flood inundation and then have flood indendation mapping capability. So it's it's it's a combination of knowing how much rain is going to fall, how much water is going to get pushed in from the ocean and then also having really good information about uh the routing of the waterways over land.
▶ 1:25:17So um to that end really want to thank this committee support of the precipitation grand challenge because it came about from So, I understand that there's funding that comes from the National Weather Service and other collaborative efforts. Uh, but my question, and I want to be specific about this, is as you sit here before the committee today, can you guarantee that we're not going to lose any of the foundational science and analysis of rainfall patterns that part of which has historically come out of OAR?
▶ 1:25:46With these funding cuts, are we going to lose any of that or will it remain consistent? Uh, even with the new
▶ 1:25:51we're going to continue to execute on our mission essential priorities. And I I would also uh like to note that the atlas 15 is forthcoming. It's a follow on study to 14.
▶ 1:26:04Got it. With that, I yield back.
▶ 1:26:07The gentleman yields the remainder of his time. At this time, the chair recognizes the gentleman from the state of California, Mr. Whitesides, for five minutes. Mr. Whitesides.
▶ 1:26:15Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, thank you to the chair and the ranking member and administrator, administrator Jacobs, for convening this hearing. Dr. Dr. Jacobs. I represent northern Los Angeles County. For my constituents, uh the statistics in this budget aren't just line items. They represent lost lives and livelihoods. Last January, the Palisades and Eden fires collectively burned over 50,000 acres, destroyed nearly 16,000 homes, and claimed 31 lives.
▶ 1:26:44The economic toll is estimated at a staggering 53.8 8 billion in damages, roughly 12 times the entire budget of uh of the budget that you're requesting I find it difficult to reconcile the increasing intensity of our fire seasons with a proposed 1.1 billion or 21% cut to Noah's discretionary funding. We cannot innovate our way out of a crisis if we are reducing the foundational science that tells us where the next fire will ignite.
▶ 1:27:15The budget proposes to effectively eliminate the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research, OAR, as a standalone line office, a move that would slash $649 million from foundational research. Cutting research to fund operations feels like trying to fly a plane while dismantling the engine for parts. In my district, we rely on the California Nevada climate regional team.
▶ 1:27:38Their simulations on burn severity are integrated into our state's long-term strategic planning and on the ground operational decisions during active active firefights. Your budget terminates the regional climate services program which serves as a bridge between federal climate science and localized on the ground decision-making for areas like Southern California. The program provides specific tools such as wildfire burn severity simulations and fuel flammability assessments.
▶ 1:28:06These are used by fire chiefs and emergency managers to make operational decisions during active disasters. My first question is if you remove the localized tailored support that programs like the California Nevada team provide, what is the specific technical plan for ensuring that local fire chiefs still receive granular actionable climate
▶ 1:28:27Um, thank you for the question. So we've got we've got several aspects that how we would approach this on the technical front. Um some are space-based. So we have new capability with infrared imagery where we can actually detect these hotspots. And it it's it's a pretty impressive capability because we have historically been able to see ignition points of fires from outer space on infrared before they're reported. So
▶ 1:28:55Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm very familiar with that. In fact, I I helped build a system that's that's that's working on that. Um, I don't want to interrupt you, though. Yeah.
▶ 1:29:03Oh, well, so then the the other
▶ 1:29:05what system are you thinking of
▶ 1:29:07So, so in infrared imagery from geostationary orbit, that's one. That's
▶ 1:29:13the spatial resolution on the geostationary orbit is troublesome for um wildfire detection in areas like
▶ 1:29:19It's it's roughly one kilometer. It's pretty high res.
▶ 1:29:23Yeah. on on the worst fire days, if a fire gets to 1 kilometer, that is far too late to to stop it.
▶ 1:29:30Okay. Well, we also have the the highresolution rapid refresh model, which is something that we cycle on a regular basis.
▶ 1:29:39And what what system is that?
▶ 1:29:41It's a it's a warf based uh
▶ 1:29:44what based
▶ 1:29:45weather research and forecast. Um, it's a it's a numerical weather prediction system and it's specifically tuned for smoke plumes, things like that.
▶ 1:29:55What is the sensing platform?
▶ 1:29:57It it uses a lot of different instruments. Uh, it's aircraft data, satellite data, uh, weather balloons. Uh it actually relies a lot on the Mezzonet data which you can actually use also for for not just for fire ignition type uh scenarios but also soil moisture information.
▶ 1:30:20So this would actually be setting the stage for when we're looking for uh pre-fire environments when when the fuel levels are real high soil moisture is really dry. This is really important information through the national mezzanet bro.
▶ 1:30:33I have I have one last question. Um I'm sorry to interrupt you. You you are also proposing to terminate the national integrated drought information system in the west. Drought data is our early warning system for fuel flammability. Without uh without this system, what alternative data streams will Noah Noah provide to help us predict fire behavior before a spark hits the ground. So these these are mix of observations and predictive capabilities. So the weather service continues to both collect all these observations and issue the predictive capabilities.
▶ 1:31:03So, no nothing that the weather service is producing is going away.
▶ 1:31:07Okay. I think the main point in my last 5 seconds is that Noah is crucial to keeping our community safe and we're going to fight to keep our community safe by fighting back against these cuts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
▶ 1:31:19Gentleman yields. At this time, the chair recognizes the gentleman from the state of Illinois, Mr. Foster, for five minutes. Mr. Foster.
▶ 1:31:25Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair, and to our witness. Um, let's I'd like to speak a little bit about NWRP reauthorization. The past several Congresses I have been uh advocating for the National Windstorm Impact Reduction Program or NWRP I believe it's pronounced uh reauthorization efforts in this committee. NWRP is a combined effort between FEMA and NIS Noah and NSF to achieve significant reduction in damages to life and property from windstorms. Uh so Dr.
▶ 1:31:54Jacobs, could you just sort of describe Noah's role in NWRP?
▶ 1:31:59So Noah is is the collector and producer of of observations. Uh I think it's really important to to look at this from two different directions. One is a lot of these wind uh events are usually caused by something else. Sometime a dret gust front. Sometimes we have high wind events during landfalling hurricanes. uh winds are hugely impactful for a lot of different reasons and there's there's multiple ways we can observe them.
▶ 1:32:29So we we observe and produce and provide the data both from space-based assets as well as weather balloons and aircraft data and then also more importantly a lot of the animometers that we have on the ground in the surface sensing and we do sustained winds as well as gusts. And while sustained winds historically have kind of been the metric for scientific measurement, it's actually the gusts that do the most damage.
▶ 1:32:57Yeah. So, um, can you be a little more specific? What research on Noah currently is Noah currently funding to achieve the goals of of you know increasing resilience and reduced
▶ 1:33:11So, we do a lot of work on the development of instruments. Uh there's there's some new capabilities that we're looking at where we can actually do like radial velocity, things like that through radar. Uh this is how we look for forming tornadoes. We can actually see the wind uh rotation signature on the radar. As far as the the impacts to structures, that's largely a NIST thing.
▶ 1:33:37We do work with our other Department of Commerce colleagues at NIST on this. Most of the work that we do is actually providing the information as far as what you would expect from wind impacts or specific wind events and then NIST would look at that as far as damage to like some type of structure.
▶ 1:33:56It's fascinating. So, how do you see the rotation structure from the from the radar return?
▶ 1:34:02just the spread in the Doppler.
▶ 1:34:03Yeah. So, it's it's basically it's exactly that the Doppler effect. So it it measures actually moving rain droplets and they're either moving towards you or away from you. And when you're looking for radial velocity signature or what they call like a a rotation couplet,
▶ 1:34:19you'll see very high high intensity droplets moving away from you right next to high intensity moving towards you. And that's usually where the forecasters know that there's rotation in the cloud and typically that's where they trigger a tornado
▶ 1:34:35Yeah. Fascinating. Okay. So you see you see what would normally be, you know, a single line from weather moving in some direction and it splits into two for the sort of the edges,
▶ 1:34:45right? So you would in some cases I mean you could still see this on radar too with straight line winds. It would just look like a a very high large winds like a gust front.
▶ 1:34:58It's a lot different than a really tightly coupled rotation, but they both produce damage from winds.
▶ 1:35:03Okay. If we go back to NWR, um it's overdue for reauthorization and although you know I had a bill that passed out of committee last Congress, it's not yet made it to the House floor. Um so how does this failure to reauthorize uh impact and warp's work? I haven't actually seen the latest draft language, but I would I would love to take a look at it and work with you and your staff. Um and I can tell you after seeing it.
▶ 1:35:32Okay. Yeah. I mean, one of the things where I think all of the agencies involved in that are sort of um linked by the fact that every one of them is targeted by for some kind of demolition by this uh administration, which I'm not asking you to comment on, but um but this is a that you know, it's a very important thing. That's one of uh I think it was Barney Frank that was fond of saying that it's almost impossible in politics to get credit for disasters that you've avoided and so that you've averted.
▶ 1:36:00And so if you mitigate damage, you know, people just say nah, but it's it's one of the most impactful things we can do. Um and let's say the um can you say just a little bit in the last few minutes about the workforce impacts of what's happening? Um, yeah. As far as I I'm I'm I'm assuming your question is really related to a lot of the the hiring that we've been doing.
▶ 1:36:25So, as far as uh uh the weather services concerned, we've recently been authorized to hire 450 and uh 206 of those positions have final job offers and 204 have been hired and onboarded. The thing that's even more encouraging to me than that is hearing from the weather service that they're having, uh, hundreds of applicants per position, which is something they'd never seen in the past.
▶ 1:36:53And so, um, I'm really excited where things are headed in the weather service.
▶ 1:36:58It's good to have a little ray of sunshine occasionally in this business. So, thank you. And I yield back.
▶ 1:37:04The gentleman yields. I want to thank you, Dr. Jacobs, for your valuable testimony and also my colleagues for their questions. The record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written questions from members. At this point, this hearing is adjourned.