▶ 0:07:48The Committee on Education and Workforce will please come to order. A quorum is present. Right, Mark? Yes. We are the quorum. We are unanimous. Unanimous quorum. Without objection, the chair may recess the committee at any point. I would like to thank Vincennes University for hosting today's hearing.
▶ 0:08:12It's great to be at an institution that is educating tomorrow's leaders in the fields of firefighting, manufacturing, workplace safety, and mining. Places where there are actual jobs that we we certainly need.
▶ 0:08:26Today's hearing will examine the US mining industry and ways we can improve the industry for both miners and mine Under the Trump administration and Republican leadership in Congress, there's opportunity for mining to grow and continue delivering for communities like this one. America's mining industry is at a turning point.
▶ 0:08:49Last year, President Trump issued three executive orders aimed at strengthening domestic mining They were critical steps to ensure energy independence for the nation. The Department of Labor and this committee are also taking steps to remove burdensome policies that create regular and and create regulatory landscape that allows mining operations to grow.
▶ 0:09:16Acting on these executive orders, the Department of Energy recently announced nearly $100 million in funding as part of its mine and future initiative with 80 million going toward the development and commercialization of advanced mining technology.
▶ 0:09:35This initiative recognizes the innovative approaches being taken in the mining industry where some of the most advanced technology is being used to increase production efficiency and reduce worker exposure and risk even as we had the privilege of of viewing yesterday in the mine itself.
▶ 0:09:54Last July members of this committee sent a letter to the Mine Safety and Health Administration MSHA requesting that it revise the overly burdensome rule on respirable crystalline uh silica issued by the Biden-Harris administration in 2024.
▶ 0:10:11The mining industry depends on small and mid-sized operators and several provisions in this final rule placed costly obligations on these businesses which would likely cause them to close their doors. But the work does not stop there.
▶ 0:10:29We must ensure worker protections keep For example, in July of 2025 MSHA created the Compliance Assistance and Safety and Health or in Safety and Health or CASH program to support the anticipated surge in mining productivity following President Trump's executive MSHA also continues to award millions of dollars in grants to support mine safety and health training across the United
▶ 0:11:00These investments in safety and health paid off. In 2025 the mining industry experienced its lowest total injury rate in history. While there's been outstanding progress in keeping our workers safe there's still more work to do. Collaboration between government and private sector leads to safer workplaces, an educated workforce, and a stronger mining industry.
▶ 0:11:29I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about ways to unleash the mining industry's potential in a way that protects miners and benefits the communities in which they work and live. Pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m.
▶ 0:11:5814 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I'll now turn to the introduction of our four witnesses.
▶ 0:12:19And to do that, I'll start by recognizing Representative Messmer uh to introduce two of our witnesses who are both from the great state of Well, thank you, Chairman. It's an honor to introduce two Hoosiers on this panel today. Mr. Bruce Stevens is president of Resources Services LLC in Jasonville, Indiana.
▶ 0:12:38He brings both private and public sector perspectives on the mining industry, having previous previously served as president of the Indiana Indiana Coal Council and director of uh division of reclamation in the state Indiana's Department of Natural Mr.
▶ 0:12:52Eric Carter is general manager of Peabody Energy Peabody Energy's underground mine located near Francisco, With more than two two decades of experience in the mining industry, he has seen firsthand how this sector has evolved and adapted to a variety of I thank them both for their contributions to strengthening our state's mining industry and for testifying today. Now, yield back. Thank you, Mr. Messmer. Um our third is Mr.
▶ 0:13:21Sam Petsock, owner of Petsock in Oak Hill, West Virginia. Welcome. Our last witness, Mr. Arthur Wolfson, partner at Fisher Phillips LLP in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Welcome. We thank our witnesses for being here today pursuant to committee rules.
▶ 0:13:43I would ask that each of you limit your oral presentation to a 3-minute summary of your written statement which we have Uh the clock will count down from 3 As we have many questions for you pursuant to committee rule 8D and committee practice, however, we will not cut off your testimony until you reach the 5-minute mark.
▶ 0:14:09I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of their responsibility provide accurate information to this committee. I'll first recognize Mr. Stevens for your testimony. Uh 5 minutes, you're recorded right now.
▶ 0:14:27Thank you, Chairman Walberg and Congressman Meijer. It's indeed an honor to be here. First, I want to welcome you to Vincennes University's Gibson County Center for advanced manufacturing logistics, which is the home of Vincennes University's mining training program, which is the recipient of the Mine Safety and Health Administration's federal grant funding to assist in the training and retraining of Indiana's This institution provides the required training for underground surface miners delivered by instructors with decades of expertise
▶ 0:14:58across many aspects of mining. In fact, this facility averages training and retraining nearly 3,000 coal miners each year. The facility is a true gem for Indiana's workforce development efforts, and I encourage you to take a few minutes to see it first-hand if you haven't yet had the opportunity. The classrooms, equipment simulators, and Indiana's only mock underground mine for safety and rescue training speak for themselves.
▶ 0:15:23I encourage the committee to ensure that stable mine safety and health grant funding is sustained for state-based mining training programs and request consideration of expanding funding to cover planning, instructor hiring, and upgrading equipment that has evolved Indiana's coal miners are highly skilled men and women.
▶ 0:15:42They work in one of the most highly regulated industries in the nation, subject to state and federal regulatory agencies, including those with jurisdiction over the Mine Safety and Health Act, the Surface Mining Act, the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, and others.
▶ 0:15:55Miners today are not producing coal with picks and shovels, but rather with specialized mechanized equipment that requires training and experience to Their specialties span equipment operation, electrical systems, mine safety, welding, computerized controls, and engineering, and they earn high salaries averaging over $90,000 annually with strong benefits. They are very involved in their communities and quite generous providing goods for those in schools and communities who may not be as fortunate. These are the kind of people we want in our communities.
▶ 0:16:27Unfortunately, the numbers tell a stark In 1988, 39 companies were operating 72 coal mines. Last year, six companies were operating nine mines. In 2014, Indiana coal mines produced over 39 million tons of coal, more than any other year. Just 11 years later in 2025, Indiana produced 18.4 million tons, over a 50% reduction driven almost entirely by regulatory pressure that forced coal-fueled power plants to close.
▶ 0:16:56Some of those regulations were later overturned in court or revised, but the damage was already done. Miners lost good-paying jobs and had to start over, often lower wages with fewer benefits. The need for coal has never been more urgent. Energy demand is surging due to artificial intelligence, data centers, increased manufacturing, and foreign manufacturers return to the United States, all of which are straining energy supply chains. To attract and maintain these industries, there must be adequate energy available.
▶ 0:17:26At a time when consumer costs are rising, our nation needs to prioritize all forms of energy. Coal is a dispatchable, storable, base load energy source ready to power these sectors. To do so, the utilities must be given certainty that coal will remain available and supported as an energy source, and that regulatory reform will not be undone by a future As Congressman Daily in the Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act in Section 102F, which directs us to assure that the coal supply essential to the nation's energy requirements
▶ 0:17:57and to its economic and social well-being is provided and strike a balance between protection of the environment and agricultural productivity and the nation's need as an essential source of This mandate originated in 1977 and remains as important today as when it was first written. Thank you again for the opportunity to address the committee, and I look forward to any questions you may have. Thank you, Mr. Stevens. I now recognize uh Mr. Carter for your testimony.
▶ 0:18:28Chairman Walberg, Congressman Bessemer, thank you for the opportunity to testify My name is Eric Carter. I'm currently the general manager for one of Peabody Energy's underground coal mines here locally in Gibson County. I'm here to testify about the experience with current available workforce in the state of education available for mining practices.
▶ 0:18:47In my 32 years, I've gained extensive experience with laws, policies under the Mine Safety and Health Administration and other federal state It is of my opinion that over time education standards and certain policies under the Department of Labor have hampered the ability of mining in communities like this. Currently in my community, schools cater primarily to outside of the mining industry because it's rarely highlighted as a destination for those graduates.
▶ 0:19:16We currently utilize mechanical, electrical, mining, and civil environmental, and software engineers. Not all high school graduates will attend a college, yet the mining still sees opportunities ranging from general labor to managerial positions for an with the wherewithal to learn and progress.
▶ 0:19:36What we see today in a culture shift among students and individuals who have newly entered the workforce, there does not appear to be a clear or well-promoted pathway for high school graduates to navigate their way into the including mining. We spend a significant amount of time sufficiently training developing new workers compared to 10 years ago. This new development time is causing problems, in production as well as safety concerns.
▶ 0:20:05Most importantly, this kind of shift requires collaboration among the administration, Congress, state partners, and the industry to make sure there is a long-term plan to invest in US mining, and to build back a stronger workforce to meet demand. Policies like President Trump's executive order to prepare for high-paying skilled jobs and the stronger workforce for American Act, which was introduced by Chairman Walberg, are much needed solutions to address the problems in our industry. Perhaps the most pressing challenge is one perception.
▶ 0:20:35A career in mining today can mean operating sophisticated equipment and manage complex long logistics, working in an environment compliance, or leading teams of skilled professionals. The earning potential is among the highest available to workers without a four-year degree, and the career stability that comes with supplying minerals and energy to the American economy is considerable. Changing this public perception starting in our schools and communities is critical to protecting our domestic mining industry. Thank you.
▶ 0:21:05I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Carter. I'll now recognize Mr. Petsong for your Thank you, Chairman Walberg and Congressman Westerman. It's an honor to be here. Truly grateful for this opportunity. I am Sam Petsong. I'm a miner's health and safety lawyer from West Virginia. I formerly staffed Senator US Senator Robert C. Byrd and Card Goodwin on issues of mine safety.
▶ 0:21:34I'm closely familiar with the legislative history of the Mine Act and the appropriations challenges that go along with it. I've represented thousands of coal miners and their families nationwide on health, safety, and economic issues. I want to address two principal issues today. One, the crystalline silica rule that you referenced that was recently set aside by the Mine Safety and Health Administration.
▶ 0:21:57And the the dangers that go along with cutting back on safety budgets, safety agencies as we face these risks, the heightened risks of mining in heavily depleted mineral basins such as Appalachia and the Illinois Basin including Indiana. So, as to the silica rule, the United States has taken 100 years to to provide miners with an independently enforceable limit on highly toxic respirable silica dust.
▶ 0:22:26We have instituted a breathable silica dust limit for every other major category of American worker except for the miners who face the most extreme exposures. This is a long overdue matter. I think in the opinion of and I see many mine workers who are here today and and working people have known these risks for 100 years and we all have.
▶ 0:22:48It's been over well over 50 years since CDC recommended a particular exposure limit that we still haven't put into place. I I you know, hundreds if not thousands of miners in Appalachia have experienced this extreme sandstone exposure in recent decades. As we mine thinner seams, we have to cut more sandstone, and we are facing a what I call a slow-moving Hawk's Nest disaster.
▶ 0:23:16You may remember in the 1930s, hundreds of African-American rock drillers died of acute silicosis in Fayette County. I still practice in that county today, and and I just yesterday received a report of 28-year-old minor with 10 years of mining experience who already has very significant lung function loss from from severe silicosis. I've represented 32-year-old miners, 36-year-old miners, miners who are seeking double lung transplants in their early 40s or late 30s from this.
▶ 0:23:42This is an urgent issue, and I and I respect the concerns about the industry and small operators very much. But my purpose here today is to say that the agency that is supposed to protect America's miners has abandoned them in court. The MSHA didn't even ask the the MSHA was sued over the silica rule, but they have not defended it. They could have asked the court to allow the rule to come into force to protect the most vulnerable, and and MSHA has not even asked for that.
▶ 0:24:11And this committee has an important opportunity to send a message to MSHA that you can protect um and you have a duty to do so under the Mine Act. So, I I hope you will urge the agency to uh fully restore the silica rule and refine it later. You can you can work on it, and you should.
▶ 0:24:29Uh but secondly, as to the uh the threat of cutting safety uh while we face these escalating risks in the mines, the government's message is run more coal, and you know, we've heard that message for a long time in Appalachia, but the risks are growing because in Central and Eastern United States, our coal basins are substantially depleted.
▶ 0:24:54We've been mining for a long time, and you mine the good coal first, and then you have to get what's left over, and we're in that getting what's left over phase right now. And that And that means we're cutting through unstable high walls. We are dealing with unpredictable methane and extreme respirable dust risk. So, So, my second message here is the It's not the time for the administration to be cutting mine safety.
▶ 0:25:19And just this week, the this administration has reportedly laid off 1/3 of the staff of the Mine Safety and Health Review Commission, shutting down the entire Pittsburgh office. And then we now have only three administrative law judges nationwide to hear all the mine enforcement actions in the country. And that's a real problem. By August of this year, with the firings that have just occurred, the administration commission will lack a quorum. That means they will not be able to conduct any business at all.
▶ 0:25:49And that has happened before, and it's caused major trouble and backlog, which is a problem for mining companies. And you can appoint a new Make sure they appoint a new commissioner to keep that thing operating, please. As [snorts] to health more broadly, you know, they the DOGE effort cut a lot from NIOSH. We've restored a lot of it, but I I've addressed in my remarks, we have to fully restore the continuous dust monitoring functions. Lastly, I just want to mention that we have legacy commitments to miners. We should pass the Black Lung Benefits Improvement Act.
▶ 0:26:19And as I mentioned, look ahead to protect rare earth miners. It's a new industry, and you've got a lot on your hands. I thank you for the opportunity to address it. Thank you. And now I recognize for his 5 minutes or 3 minutes of testimony, potentially I recognize Mr. Wolfson. Thank you. And I likewise appreciate the opportunity to be here. This is a first for me, and and and a true honor to to with my colleagues up here.
▶ 0:26:47Brief brief background about myself, I am a practicing attorney and a partner in the Pittsburgh office of Fisher & Phillips LLP and a member of the firm's workplace safety and catastrophe management practice group. My foot My practice focuses uh on counseling and representing employers with respect to their safety and health regulatory uh requirements and I maintain a sub-specialty in mine safety and health regulatory requirements.
▶ 0:27:13While I practice in all areas of safety and health law, um the majority of my practice is in the mine safety and health area of both coal and metal non-metal uh uh types of mines. My mining clients are regulated federally by the Federal Mine Safety and Health Act, commonly referred to as as the Mine Act and the regulations promulgated by MSHA.
▶ 0:27:33This is a strict regulatory framework and far exceeds uh in terms of the burdens on employers what general industry faces under OSHA. This is for three primary reasons. Number one, the Mine Act, unlike OSHA, um requires requires mandatory inspections. Number two, MSHA has warrantless inspection authority, unlike OSHA. And number three, mine operators are strictly liable for any violations at their mine site.
▶ 0:28:00They do not enjoy the defenses that employers in general industry enjoy under the OSHA scheme. However, within this framework, there are several opportunities to improve the regulatory landscape um while still achieving the goals of the Mine Act. First, the Mine Act should include a pattern of compliance incentive that would stand opposite of the pattern of violations sanction.
▶ 0:28:27The pattern of violations sanction is reserved for mine operators with a demonstrated history of certain types of safety and health violations. Um it has been said that it's reserved for the quote unquote the bad actors. Correspondingly, there should be a performance-based incentive for the best of the good actors, which would relieve regulatory burden for mine operators with a demonstrated history of compliance.
▶ 0:28:53OSHA offers such an incentive to employers in the form of the voluntary protection program, which potential uh regulatory burden under OSHA. This would require, however, a statutory change under the Mine Act and the committee should consider it.
▶ 0:29:09Second, the MSHA enforcement scheme uh should reward and not punish mine operators who exceed minimum regulatory Presently, mine operators frequently exceed the measures required by by MSHA's regulations, but can be cited for those very measures they take they take, and oftentimes those citations carry with them the elevated significant and substantial designation, commonly referred to as S&S, and MSHA
▶ 0:29:39frequently ignores the safety benefits provided by these measures that exceed their own Finally, MSHA should undertake rulemaking to clarify key terms. There are far too many vague and vague terms in the MSHA enforcement scheme with too much gray area, which does not benefit either mine operators, miners, or MSHA. There are numerous examples of vague terms, but I have highlighted two of them in my written testimony.
▶ 0:30:10First is again significant and substantial or S&S, which is an elevated designation reserved for more serious violations. MSHA should undertake rulemaking and make it clear and make a clear and workable definition of S&S, specifically that an S&S designation is based on the particular facts and circumstances of the violation at issue, which presented a discrete hazard at a meaning [clears throat] and a meaningful degree of likelihood that the hazard would
▶ 0:30:42MSHA should rulemaking to clarify the term an injury with a reasonable potential to cause death, which thereby require requires mine operators to report these types of incidents to MSHA within 15 minutes. A bright-line definition for what constitutes such an injury would be beneficial to both mine operators, miners, and MSHA. The absence of a clear definition leaves too much room for guesswork, particularly when such prompt operator action is needed.
▶ 0:31:13Uh these are two examples of many that MSHA could undertake to provide clearer terms for the regulated community. I welcome your questions. Thank you for your comments. Under committee rule nine, we'll now question witnesses under the five-minute rule. I recognize Mr. Messmer for the purpose of questioning witnesses. Mr. Messmer. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to Vincennes University for hosting um this important hearing.
▶ 0:31:42Indiana is one of America's most important coal-producing states. Many of Indiana's communities, including this one here in Gibson County, are built on coal mining. The mining industry also is facing a harsh reality reality. In addition to regulatory burdens that operators must bear, the industry has a growing workforce shortage. Vincennes University is taking steps to address this worker shortage by training future generations of industry leaders. Workers must be equipped to meet the demands of an evolving industry.
▶ 0:32:10Preparing workers to perform their jobs safely and effectively is only part of the challenge. That's why safety training must be an essential component of any training program and still being a lasting culture of safety. Uh with that, uh Mr. Stevens, um you mentioned the many companies providing goods and services in the in the mining industry in your testimony. Can you explain what type of companies these are and how they impact and rely on the coal mining industry.
▶ 0:32:40Certainly, thank you for the for the It was mentioned I was president of Indiana Coal Council for a number of years. That was trade association for the mining the coal industry here in We had about 100 members, sometimes over 100 members. Eight or 10 of those were producing members, couple of them were large reserve holding members. 90% of them were companies that provided goods and services to the industry.
▶ 0:33:10With the in the number of mines, the decrease in production, those companies have have been harmed. Um they are companies such as equipment and repair are very large ones, transportation, uh both over the road and and railroads, uh materials for the mining industry, um such as the roof bolts and cribbings and conveyors and and such belting that you you all saw
▶ 0:33:43another thing is that last year there were mines coal mines only in six Indiana counties. Um in 1988 they were in 13 counties. So there were a lot more companies providing goods and services. Uh distance has has uh has harmed them as well. So it it's it's a a big impact not only to um the coal miner itself, but to those uh providing goods and services.
▶ 0:34:12And it's said that for every coal mining job there are three or more indirect jobs that go along with that. I think three is a low number with respect to that, but that's that is a snapshot of those type of companies that have been harmed. Thank you. Um also in your written written testimony you described the significant, you know, job losses to the in in the coal sector. Why are these jobs so difficult to replace once they disappear?
▶ 0:34:43Well, the the first item I would say is that that you know, coal miners are are highly trained, highly skilled individuals, and they command a good salary. As I mentioned, averaging over $90,000 a Um and many making more than that. They have very very strong benefits. And jobs in the rural areas of the state are are difficult to match that.
▶ 0:35:08Um there there may be jobs, but unfortunately, when a mine closes, a worker has to face a choice of whether they're going to relocate or whether they're going to accept a lower-paying job, which has long-term impacts on families and and particularly Thank you. Uh Mr.
▶ 0:35:28Carter, um how do you recruit talent for your Currently, talent is recruited through various television ads, newspaper ads, so forth, contractor supply companies. Very low-skilled workers come to the They go through extensive training programs that are required by as well as our organizations.
▶ 0:35:55So, experience of skills required in today's day's workforce, you know, it's it's highly required for the mining industry, but workers that are trained in other fields can easily adapt to the mining industry with their current and skill level. These individuals can bring a strong work ethic, very cultured safety background, as well as familiarity with regulated industrial environments.
▶ 0:36:24With targeted training and upskilling, these capabilities can be efficiently applied to mining careers. Thank you. Anything we can do to eliminate the stigma of a career in mining for the next I think removing the stigma surrounding mining industry starts with better communication about the workers in the actually looks like today.
▶ 0:36:44Too often the perceptions are rooted in outdated images or failed to reflect the industry's strong safety culture and advanced technology and commitment to environmental Um by highlighting the wide range of highly skilled rows roles and use of automation and data analytics, the clear career pathways for advancement, we can better demonstrate mining offers a stable, well-paying careers that align with many existing industrial technical
▶ 0:37:14When students, workers, communities understand these skills are transferable to mining and supported by ongoing training and innovation, it helps reduce misconceptions and informed awareness and respect for the energy. Thank you. And with that, I yield back. I thank the gentleman from Indiana.
▶ 0:37:36Uh now I I give myself the my 5 minutes of And again, thank you for the witnesses for being here. Mr. Wolfson, as you noted in your written testimony, uh you support MSHA creating a regulatory system that rewards mine workers who exceed their regulatory obligations in keeping their workers safe.
▶ 0:38:03you mentioned VPP, uh voluntary protection program that OSHA has, which you don't have. Uh can you provide some examples of common industry practices that go beyond the requirements of MSHA's policies? Sure.
▶ 0:38:18Mine mining operators routinely provide both protections and practices that exceed what is required by the MSHA Um, there are certainly, uh, trainings that mine operators undertake that exceed what is required by part 48 or part 46 both in frequency and substance. There is equipment, I've, uh, provided the examples of shielded cables on underground coal, uh, mobile equipment.
▶ 0:38:48Um, there are, uh, proximity proximity detection systems on, uh, underground coal, uh, equipment other than continuous miners, which is all that's currently required, uh, to have a proximity detection there are, uh, cameras on mobile equipment that that frequently isn't required.
▶ 0:39:08Um, and mine operators, uh, invest a lot of money and time and resources to provide these, um, types of measures, uh, for the safety of their workers and for the betterment of their operations. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Carter, thank you for putting up with us yesterday in the mine and bringing us out as well.
▶ 0:39:32I also appreciate your support of my bill HR 8210, the Stronger Workforce for America Act of 2026 or the uh, really the, uh, WIOA reauthorized [clears throat] legislation that takes an all of above planned and approach for workforce training. When it comes to uh, what does an all of the above approach to worker development and training look like?
▶ 0:39:58I think an all above approach to workforce development mining industries requires coordinated policy support, strong industry participation across all full talent pipelines. This includes leveraging existing federal workforce programs such as the WIOA alongside industry training, registered apprenticeships, partnerships with community colleges and technical To ensure curriculum align with real-world mining needs, it also needs support incumbent worker
▶ 0:40:29training so current employees can adapt to advances in automation, safety systems, and data-driven operations. From an industry this approach would allow operators to develop skilled, reliable workforce while giving workers access to long-term, high-quality careers. When policy and industry work in tandem, workforce development becomes a strategic tool that strengthens productivity, safety, and domestic supply chain. It's constant upgrading, isn't it?
▶ 0:40:57Yes. It never ends. Appreciate that. Mr. Stevings uh Stevens, mining has historically been a crucial part of this uh state's economic and industrial What role should the government play in partnering with the private sector to sustain mining industry's economic and long-term stability? Yeah, thank you, sir.
▶ 0:41:20As I mentioned, um this facility is is a a real testament to the partnership that the federal government can have um with learning it plays a uh very critical role with um funding such as MSHA's training grant, which Vincennes University receives annually.
▶ 0:41:47What is necessary is um uh stability going forward. Uh there needs to be stable, multi-year funding um so training programs um which you you will see if you have not already, there is a lot of equipment, there's a lot of needs, there's uh the need to hire competent instructors, and such. So, stable, multi-year funding uh would be very welcome.
▶ 0:42:14Um and then there's also opportunity for in mining. Mr. Carter referenced, um I don't believe that some schools are um I don't [clears throat] believe they are steering anyone away from a a a uh career in coal, but I don't think they're really directing them toward them toward it either.
▶ 0:42:38And there needs to be an understanding that today's coal miner is a highly technically competent individual who can be in many, many different um fields and um you know, make make certain that uh uh the opportunity is there for them to to find jobs in the coal mining Thank you.
▶ 0:43:02Um [clears throat] my time is expired, but unless there's objection, I'll take a chairman's personal prerogative. we have a um a witness here that was um identified for us by the Democrats on our committee. And um Mr. Petsock, you've come a long way and I appreciate you being here.
▶ 0:43:24Normally Democrats would be asking you questions, but since they chose not to be here, and I'm disappointed with that, I'm going to ask you a question uh to make it worth your while here. Plus, I think you and I discussed a little bit before we came out here. Um you highlighted considerations we should take into account regarding rare earth minerals and the mining that will have to take place um if we're going to be found in that realm, which we need to be.
▶ 0:43:53Can you briefly briefly uh describe what some of those considerations might be? Uh thank you. This is an industry that has not matured in the United States. We are looking at producing rare earth minerals through traditional mining, pit mining, perhaps underground mining.
▶ 0:44:12There is also an interest in what essentially something similar to fracking, which is called in situ These the health risks there can be potential exposures there that have not been well studied in the United States. And so my question for MSHA for for for years now really has been where is the science that that will inform our enforcement efforts.
▶ 0:44:36And NIOSH and MSHA should be developing that so that we have the ability to identify the protective standards. And the International Labor Affairs Bureau of DOL has done some initial outreach in the Democratic Republic of the Congo where most of the cobalt mining happens internationally. There's There's you know, there's there's rare earths, there's cobalt, there's lithium, there's a variety of new battery inputs, but we should be studying them and lay a groundwork for regulating.
▶ 0:45:03And And I appreciate your attention to that very much. It's an emerging issue and that you can really make an impact. Thank you. Well, it's a real world issue and there are wars developed around all of that. So So thank you for those I now will move to a second round of questioning and I recognize the gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Messmer to begin that round. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 0:45:26Wolfson, in your written testimony you call for establishing a federal mine safety and health act establishing a pattern of compliance Uh what what do you believe this added benefit is it in creating this kind of incentive program would accomplish?
▶ 0:45:42The benefit would be to provide mine operators with um the freedom to meet their safety and health obligations uh through different avenues, not just by the prescriptive enforcement method currently set forth by MSHA.
▶ 0:45:59Sure, they would still be Mine operators would still be required to meet the standards um set forth by MSHA, but currently the way in which we evaluate whether they've done so is through strict and heavy enforcement by MSHA inspectors.
▶ 0:46:16The OSHA example provides another path through which OSHA does through its VPP, which is would be a performance-based program by which mine operators could demonstrate that they are complying with leading indicators for safety rather than just strict enforcement. And if they meet those measures, then they could achieve some level of relief from the enforcement burden that they currently face from MSHA.
▶ 0:46:47And you commented that mine operators get cited for exceeding minimum standards. Can you give me some examples of how they get they get cited for for doing things that already exceed the standards? Sure. So, uh earlier with respect to Mr. Walberg's question, I I offered some examples of some items that mine operators commonly use that exceed the requirements of the MSHA standards.
▶ 0:47:12If conditions were to exist on those items that are not required, that could subject mine operators to additional citations, which goes on their compliance history for an item that they're not even required to have.
▶ 0:47:27But probably even even more concerning than that is that frequently these citations carry with it a significant and substantial or S&S designation, which which is detrimental to the mines compliance history and can lead to further sanctions. It seems counterintuitive to subject mine operators to enhanced enforcement with respect to items that they're not even required to have.
▶ 0:47:54And in contrast, MSHA should recognize the additional safety measures that these items provide and consider that in the enforcement program. Thank you. And will will all of those changes need statutory changes or can any be be done by rule?
▶ 0:48:12The uh, the the pattern of compliance designation would require a statutory change because presently section 103A of the Mine Act requires that all surface mines be inspected twice per year and underground four times per year. So, that would require a statutory change. In terms of MSHA's approach to the non-required items that exceed its standards, that would not require a statutory change and frankly wouldn't even require a rule.
▶ 0:48:39It would just it could be subject to a rule, but it could also just uh, be met by a change in how MSHA does business. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Stevens, many in the mining in the mining industry as was decades or centuries ago, but in your testimony you make a point out that this is an industry that demands innovative approaches and highly specialized How are schools, apprenticeship programs, or other training opportunities adapting to meet these demands as the industry evolves?
▶ 0:49:10Thank you, sir. Um,
▶ 0:49:13unfortunately, you're you're absolutely correct in in the statement that absolutely many people um, have a a bad perception of coal mining at at at this point. Um, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, um, some still view it as miners with picks and shovels going underground every day and and uh, loading coal in in that manner. Um, and miners work hard.
▶ 0:49:41They they are absolutely some of the hardest working people that that there are. But the operations today, they're they're highly technical, they're safety driven. Uh, they rely on advanced equipment. Um automation is is amazing in the the uh mining realm these days and and um skilled trades as well. So, mining needs to be understood that it's modern and that it's uh stable and that a person can earn a well-compensated career.
▶ 0:50:11So, um expanding training programs, um apprenticeships, and partnerships with high schools and technical ins- institutions would uh would help. There are a lot of skilled jobs at the coal mines. Um if those high school students um had the opportunity to learn and then have the potential to go into another program, welding is a a great example. Uh there's a great need for welders not just in coal mining, but but in many many sectors.
▶ 0:50:40Um a high school student with a background welding could come to Vincennes University, which has an excellent welding program as well, and continue learn their skill. Or they could go straight to the mine and uh learn their skill there.
▶ 0:50:54So, um we really do need to to focus on changing um the perception and there needs to be an emphasis in schools that there is still a career path in coal mining and aggregate mining, um other forms of mining as Thank you, and with that I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. Uh Mr.
▶ 0:51:16Stevens, uh returning to you uh while we're discussing workforce development and workforce safety, there are dozens of other policy areas that also have a large impact on determining uh the success of mining industry as uh such as investing in uh infrastructure, permitting reform, tax incentives, and we could go on and on. What policies and initiatives such as these would have the greatest effect in expanding and improving mining
▶ 0:51:47Yes, thank you. Um consistent regulatory frameworks Define consistent. No, don't No, don't worry. Uh anyway, I'd be here all day when are are of of much importance. There there absolutely has got to be certainty Um going forward. Um permitting reform, which uh was mentioned, that is of of huge importance. The goal posts can't be moved. There has to be consistency.
▶ 0:52:17When an applicant goes with the same type of application for the same area the things don't need to be changed from application to application. There needs to be specific time frames an agency must perform within. Um Some are are very good. Others are unfortunately um very bad.
▶ 0:52:43And it takes a huge amount of time, and that drives up cost tremendously, and it's very hard to get investors whenever you can't go and say, "We have our our permits." Um sometimes it takes years um to get some of the the federal permits, and that's uh that's um just really really uncalled for. And as I mentioned as well, there are many utility regulations are being looked at right now um federal EPA and such um and within Congress.
▶ 0:53:14utilities are are the coal companies' have to feel as though they're not going to be regulated um out of business. And any initiatives in regard to um giving them a comfort level that that has them to endorse coal more so even than what they do would be very welcome. Have them speak truth to power about what the real needs are, right? Yes.
▶ 0:53:41I I I often think how much good AI has a potential doing in permitting reform in bumping up the time frame by not going through the same exercises over and over again. Um so, thank you. Um Mr. Carter, your written testimony discusses the variety of of um high-skilled jobs uh that are part of your industry. Um and the broad perspective that that's there as well and opportunities that you have.
▶ 0:54:11Yet, many students may not know about these opportunities. Could you um tell us where you're seeing the greatest demand for high-skilled jobs and how uh we can better promote these opportunities to students and working outside of the mining industry. Currently, the biggest opportunity for high-skilled jobs is in the engineering fields, whether it be mining, civil, electrical, or mechanical engineering, as well as software engineers.
▶ 0:54:42Those roles in the industry are growing and are really needed to progress the mines with the new deck technical data that comes along. All the equipment has evolved to specific point where it requires a very high skill set. And those individuals can earn very high amount of money doing those jobs.
▶ 0:55:06As Arthur mentioned earlier, there are mines that have equipment, cameras, and so forth associated with equipment that's not required. So, it takes a highly skilled, highly trained person with ability to gain more knowledge to work on these pieces of specialized equipment.
▶ 0:55:28So, um as far as to better promote the opportunities, we need stronger partnerships between the industry, education providers, workforce agencies to ensure students transitioning workers understand how their skills align with mining.
▶ 0:55:46increased exposure through career technical education, apprenticeships, internships, and outreach to workers in manufacturing, construction, and energy can help demonstrate these skills were transferable to mining. Clear pathways and visibility into long-term advancement opportunities are key to attracting talent in both and non-traditional backgrounds. Thank you. In the few seconds I have remaining, I'm going to take the risk, uh Mr.
▶ 0:56:15Wilson, of asking you this question, uh where you're seeing the greatest demand for high-skilled excuse in reference in reference to what this committee did uh last year in submitting a letter to MSHA calling for revisions to the rule on respirable crystalline silica, uh so that the rule better aligns with reality that's out there.
▶ 0:56:42How do you believe harmonizing MSHA policies with policies set for general industry by OSHA would benefit the mining industry? Well, it would put the mining industry on an even playing field with general Currently, the the uh MSHA silica rule that was promulgated into in 2024 does not allow mine operators uh to to meet a level of compliance with certain measures that general industry enjoys,
▶ 0:57:13such as respiratory protection, um rotation of miners, uh uh and and and and through alternative means that that certain OSHA regulated employers enjoy through table one. Um it would it would uh provide the same level of protection uh uh for minors while allowing uh mining employers to meet their obligations through a variety of ways the same as those employers regulated by OSHA enjoy.
▶ 0:57:43Thank you. Uh and um again taking taking the time of the Democrat members who aren't here, uh Mr. Petsock, I'd like to um discuss your written testimony discusses emergency risks in the mining industry. As our Workforce Protection Subcommittee will hold a hearing on emergency safety issues next week.
▶ 0:58:07Um can you offer briefly your perspective on what those urban emergency issues in mining might be? Thank you again, Chairman Walberg. Um just on uh last week the Office of the Inspector General from the Department of Labor issued a report affecting uh addressing MSHA's uh accident investigations and emergency uh response capacity in the industry. I would urge the committee to look at that report.
▶ 0:58:36It was disturbing to me that uh the Inspector General found MSHA had only documented an accident investigation for 3% of the accidents that merited scrutiny. So, MSHA's failing to investigate 97% of the concerning accidents right now according to the Inspector General. I hope that you'll follow up about that. Uh MSHA has uh has the budgetary I appreciate that Congress is trying to protect this agency's budget and that's you've done that and that's important.
▶ 0:59:04within the budget they have, we've got to ensure that they are uh conducting what is called impact inspections to identify and go after uh persistent violators. That is a rational way of targeting risk and uh also there's a um an internal auditing process to ensure that accidents are accurately reported. We'd like to see more internal auditing within MSHA to ensure that accidents and illnesses are accurately reported.
▶ 0:59:32So, looking at the Inspector General's report would go a long way, and if you could ask the agency to focus on sustaining its impact inspections and its what are known as part 50 audits to ensure accurate reporting. Those are all good practices I think would benefit the Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.
▶ 0:59:55Seeing that the uh time for questioning has expired, I'd like to thank all the witnesses again uh for testifying before the committee today. I'd like to thank the audience for being here as well.
▶ 1:00:11we didn't we didn't we don't do these field hearings just so we can be away from home in our Uh you're in your district, but uh had other members come including myself, we're away from the district, but these are crucial issues we really want to And that's why we have a bipartisan effort uh to that to do that very thing. We're not trying to hide anything in this process. We respect the mining industry.
▶ 1:00:41I think uh Representative Mesmer and I both will say that very strongly. Um both having been in mines uh around this country and now most recently here in uh it's crucial that mining not simply be sustained, but given a future that it advances and And we talk about rare earth minerals, we talk about hard rock mining, uh but I for one believe having a huge coal-fired plant in my district,
▶ 1:01:11second largest in North America on Lake Erie, that's producing power even during polar I'm not sure if you get that down here, southern Indiana, but we sure do in Uh to have weeks and weeks of coal piles there ready to be useful to providing energy for all of the resources that need energy is important.
▶ 1:01:38we intend to keep looking into this issue. It is our purposes in the majority to build upon an economy, but that make sure that the mining has an economy that grows as well.
▶ 1:01:53We want to make sure that safety is but that creative tension uh that can be there brought about by the miners themselves, uh the union representatives uh where bring about those concerns, we're always willing to listen. But there's a creative tension also we want to keep mines operating.
▶ 1:02:15We want the industry to survive and And as businesses, there are those challenges that we have to consider as for the industry so it's strong. we also know bottom line it touches It touches the economy not simply of the country and our region, it touches the personal economy of families that expect that paycheck to carry on their needs and uh make a future for their families as well.
▶ 1:02:44All of that is within the purpose of this committee and our subcommittee dealing in that area as well. So I appreciate the fact that we've had this opportunity today to be here and that you've joined us. I want to say a special thank you to Vincennes University for giving us a great space here and now we look forward to a uh a um a virtual experience of mine safety training as well.
▶ 1:03:08Uh that uh is very uniquely located Uh we thank Peabody Mining operations for giving us real world opportunity. Though, I'm not sure you're ready to Well, maybe you hire Representative Mesmer. And that's another thing, to have a member of my committee who actually comes from a district that has significant mining operations across the spectrum is very important.
▶ 1:03:37I think we have one Democrat member who has uh significant mining operations that we wish could have been here as well. Uh to represent, and maybe in the future we can make that happen. but uh we appreciate being in your district, uh the hospitality you've given, and the pounds I put on with good food from your district, as well. With that, having no further business to be heard at this time, the committee stands adjourned.