▶ 0:04:15The Subcommittee on Workforce Protections will come to order. I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the chair is authorized to call a recess at any time. Today's hearing will examine emerging workplace safety risks and the need for collaborative, practical policy making to better prevent serious injuries and fatalities in the modern workplace. The workplace has evolved dramatically in recent decades, bringing new risks to employers and employees.
▶ 0:04:46Today, businesses must navigate an increasingly complex safety landscape shaped by rapidly changing technology, new worker arrangements such as remote work, and evolving operational demands. At the same time, long-standing safety concerns that once received limited attention are now at the forefront of workplace safety discussions. Yet, while the nature of work constantly changes, the regulatory framework governing workplace safety has often struggled to keep pace.
▶ 0:05:15Although overall rates of workplace injuries and illnesses have declined, far too many workers and families are impacted by serious injuries and fatalities each year. And while progress has been made, even one workplace injury or fatality is too To achieve further improvements, we must look at frontline workers, business owners, researchers, and safety experts who are developing innovative approaches to workplace safety.
▶ 0:05:41Safety issues that may not have been a part of the conversation decades ago are now crucial components of workplace safety programs and advocacy efforts. Vehicle involved accidents, for example, have become one of the leading causes of workplace fatalities across many industries.
▶ 0:05:58Drivers, whether in construction, mining, utilities, delivery services, or sales, face significant risks every day simply doing their jobs and supporting their In response, many industry leaders are adopting comprehensive safety management systems that go beyond regulatory requirements. These approaches may include leading indicators, behavioral safety programs, and advanced data analytics to identify serious injury and fatality risks before incidents occur.
▶ 0:06:29These efforts demonstrate how innovation and proactive safety practices can create safer workplaces. As we look ahead, one thing is clear. Effective workplace safety policies cannot be developed in isolation. Policy makers, workers, employers, safety professionals, and industry experts must all have a seat at the table. To truly improve safety outcomes, regulators and regulations must include meaningful input from the all those stakeholders involved.
▶ 0:06:59Lasting workplace safety improvements require policies that both protect workers and remain practical, adaptable, and responsive to evolving risks. Ultimately, the goal must be more than just compliance alone. The goal should be to create a safer workplace through thoughtful and forward-looking policies that reflect the realities of modern work. This subcommittee will always find opportunities to partner with the administration, workers, job creators, and safety experts to achieve this shared mission.
▶ 0:07:28With that, I yield to the ranking member for her opening
▶ 0:07:34Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us today. All workers deserve to come home at the end of the day healthy, whole, and paid fairly for their labor. Thanks to agencies like the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, workers benefit from standards based on sound science that have pushed companies to modernize and improve their workplaces.
▶ 0:08:05Today's hearing revolves around how the private sector has implemented certain programs to track and address workplace health and safety through the use of what they call leading indicators. These leading indicators focus on whether an employer is taking proactive measures to prevent injury and illness on the job and identify weak spots where additional action might be needed to prevent worker We all want to prevent workplace
▶ 0:08:35injuries before they happen, and leading indicators could potentially help with But, we must be realistic. Effectively tracking and responding to leading indicators will require a lot of investment and personnel that small businesses are unlikely to have.
▶ 0:08:53Additionally, some leading indicators, when used improperly, could lead bad employee employers to blame their workers if an injury occurs instead of taking the proper steps to correct hazard in the first place. The lack We lack sufficient research and information to determine whether leading indicators can mean can meaningfully improve workplace safety.
▶ 0:09:19Much of the research has been limited to private consultants, putting it out of reach for smaller employers. While I've I am relieved that the National Safety Council has attempted to fill the gap with useful case studies, we still need comprehensive open resource scientific research to evaluate these indicators.
▶ 0:09:43And this kind of public research would best be conducted by a well-funded and well-staffed [snorts] Unfortunately, the Trump administration has made sweeping cuts to NIOSH staffing. While those cuts have been reversed, there's still significant concern that NIOSH has lost many experts. In addition, we do not know whether the agency is being allowed to replace them.
▶ 0:10:11This is yet another example of how the Trump administration's recklessness has come at the direct expense of protecting and prioritizing working Americans. OSHA and NIOSH are our best long-standing tools to stop workplace harm. It is vital that we fully fund and staff these agencies to identify and correct unsafe working conditions because voluntary compliance programs or leading indicators alone will not be enough. Finally, Mr.
▶ 0:10:40Chairman, I am grateful that we have made emerging safety and healthy issues an additional theme for this hearing. As we look ahead to the transition from spring to summer, I worry that the Trump administration's weakened OSHA enforcement programs on heat stress will leave workers vulnerable.
▶ 0:11:00And in turn, the workers who are able to seek medical care for heat stress will be entrusted to our nation's hardworking health healthcare workers who will face serious risks of workplace violation violence, another danger that Trump administration has chosen to ignore. Our nation's miners also deserve the same protection from a deadly silica dust that other workers enjoy.
▶ 0:11:26This is why the Biden administration an MSHA standard, but the administration has refused to enforce it and instead seems ready to weaken the rule. And this is now happening at a time when silicosis is re-emerging as a health crisis, particularly for workers who manufacture or install artificial stone And yet congressional Republicans are actively trying to pass legislation shutting down those workers' ability to hold
▶ 0:11:57irresponsible companies accountable in court. These are sick workers and their families who are just trying to get compensation for lung transplant cancer treatment and funeral expenses. Every worker deserves to come home safe, and it should be one of the most basic obligations that we owe to all of our constituents. But this Congress and this administration are failing to meet that. Thank you, and I yield back.
▶ 0:12:23Pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. Now, we'll go to the introduction of witnesses. Our first witness is Ms.
▶ 0:12:51Lorraine Martin, CEO of the National Safety Council in Itasca, Illinois. All right. I got a confirmation that that was pronounced correctly. Our second witness is Ms. Melissa Peters, shareholder of Ogletree Deakins in San Francisco, California. Our third witness is Mr. Douglas Parker, senior research fellow at the Harvard Law School Center for Labor and a Just Economy in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And our final witness is Mr.
▶ 0:13:21Pat Shagro. Uh he is the senior director of health, safety, and environmental at the at Cianbro Corporation in Pittsfield, Maine. And he is testifying on behalf of the Associated Builders and Contractors. Want to thank all of the witnesses for being here today, and we look forward to each of your testimonies. Pursuant to committee rules, I will ask that each of you limit your oral testimony to a 3-minute summary of the written testimony of which you have provided.
▶ 0:13:49And as committee members may have questions for you, the clock will count down from 3 minutes, but pursuant to committee rule 8D, the committee practice, however, will be not cut off your testimony until you reach the 5-minute mark. I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of their responsibility to provide accurate information to the subcommittee. And with that, I will recognize our first witness today, Ms. Martin. You are recognized for your testimony.
▶ 0:14:14Thank you, Chairs McKenzie Walberg, Ranking Members Omar and Scott, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you and for inviting me to testify here today on behalf of the National Safety Council. NSC is America's leading nonprofit safety advocate and has been for more than a century. The council's mission is to eliminate the leading causes of preventable injury and death in our workplaces and on our roads.
▶ 0:14:36With more than 13,000 members representing small and big businesses, labor organizations, and public agencies across 14 of 41,000 um US work sites. Each year, more than 4,000 people lose their lives to preventable on-the-job incidents, and millions more are injured. Those numbers have remained largely unchanged for the past decade, leaving millions of families and communities forever changed. The National Safety Council believes we can break this stagnation.
▶ 0:15:06Today, I'd like to share with you three emerging safety issues that NSC is currently focused on. Serious injury and fatality prevention, including the use of leading indicators, worker well-being, and roadway safety. Let me begin with serious injury and fatality prevention, or SIF prevention. For decades, safety performance has been measured by tracking what has already happened. These are known as lagging indicators, and for the past decade, they have steadily fallen. At the same time, serious injuries and fatalities have remained flat.
▶ 0:15:37When we track Well, what we track fails to prevent people from dying or getting hurt, we need to start measuring safety Today, a strong safety program should focus on reducing risk by identifying hazards and implementing controls before an injury or death occurs.
▶ 0:15:54This is accomplished by measuring what we call leading indicators, such as risk assessments, remediation, and employee The recently updated ASTM Standard drafted by NSC and its business partners, provides a strong framework for private entities to adopt leading indicators as their private or their their primary safety measure. The second topic I'd like to discuss is worker well-being.
▶ 0:16:19Employee safety can be impacted by external factors, including mental health, stress, fatigue, and substance use disorder. I'm pleased that the newly released 2026 Office of the National Drug Control Policy Strategy prioritizes expanding recovery-friendly workplaces for over 14 million workers who currently are in recovery and the nearly 30 million employees with a substance use disorder.
▶ 0:16:45Drug overdoses represent 8% of all workplace fatalities, largely driven today by opioids. In 2024, emergency medical services were activated over 12,000 times to respond to a potential workplace overdose. To address this crisis, every workplace should have naloxone, the opioid overdose reversal medication, on site and train employees to recognize and respond to an overdose.
▶ 0:17:09Before I close, I want to address the top cause of workplace death, our Roadway incidents account for the highest share of work-related fatalities and have so for nearly half a century. Just last month, two Maryland highway workers were killed in a work zone crash. Tow operators, utility workers, and those who drive for work are all at risk.
▶ 0:17:30To address this tragic trend, NSC advocates for greater collaboration between the US Department of Transportation and the US Department of Labor to manage driving risks just as we do any other occupational hazard. Driver training and in-vehicle technologies, including fleet telematics, are vital tools to workplaces to ensure that employees are safe behind the wheel.
▶ 0:17:52Using telematics, Home Depot's equipment services division saw a 29% drop in preventable incidents, cutting their total auto liability claims in half. Eliminating preventable deaths and injuries is within our reach, but only if we leverage emerging best practices and technologies. In closing, the National Safety Council applauds the subcommittee for holding today's hearing on these issues and the solutions that will really define the future of workplace safety. I look forward to your
▶ 0:18:20Thank you. I'll now recognize Ms. Peters for your testimony.
▶ 0:18:25Chairman McKenzie and Walberg, ranking members Omar and Scott, and distinguished members of the Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on this important issue. My name is Melissa Peters, and I am a workplace safety attorney with Ogletree Deakins in San Francisco.
▶ 0:18:45Before entering private practice, I served for more than 6 years as a staff attorney with Cal/OSHA, prosecuting workplace safety violations across many Today, I represent employers ranging from hospitals and universities to manufacturers and agricultural Having worked on both sides of the system, I have seen workplace safety regulations succeed, and I have seen them fall short.
▶ 0:19:12My experience has taught me that lasting safety improvements come not from enforcement alone, but from clear standards, meaningful stakeholder engagement, and the flexibility to adapt to changing technology and workplace realities. This issue is also personal to me. My great-grandfather, an immigrant to this country, died in a mine collapse in My father told me that his own mother never recovered.
▶ 0:19:40Preparing for this hearing reminded me that workplace safety is not an abstract policy debate. It affects workers and families for generations. Today, I would likely like to briefly address two issues from my written First, our regulatory framework is struggling to keep pace with technological innovation. A clear example is OSHA's lockout tagout standard governing hazardous energy control during equipment maintenance.
▶ 0:20:07That standard was written in 1989 before the creation of advanced engineering controls that can, in some circumstances, protect workers more effectively than procedures built entirely around manual lock placement. Yet, employers are still operating under a framework designed for the technology of the late '80s.
▶ 0:20:26In practice, this can discourage investment in safer technology and encourages shortcuts by employees performing frequent make maintenance Importantly, I am not advocating for eliminating traditional lockout tagout As I explain in my written testimony, I believe OSHA should should adopt an additive approach that allows validated, risk-assessed engineering controls where they provide equal or greater worker protection.
▶ 0:20:52Second, I want to address the unintended consequences that can arise when highly prescriptive standards are applied across industries facing very different risks. In California, for example, the state adopted a broad workplace violence prevention law modeled largely on healthcare regulations originally designed for hospitals and behavioral health settings.
▶ 0:21:15But works not but what works in a hospital emergency department does not necessarily translate effectively to a retail business, office environment, or construction site. In practice, many employers end up focused on paperwork compliance rather than building meaningful site-specific safety programs and strong safety Ultimately, my recommendation is that OSHA and policymakers place greater emphasis on performance-based standards where appropriate.
▶ 0:21:43Standards that define the safety outcome while allowing employers flexibility in how to achieve Prescriptive standards absolutely have an important place, particularly where hazards and controls are well But where technology is rapidly evolving or workplaces differ dramatically from one another, flexibility can produce better and safer results. American workplaces have changed dramatically since Congress enacted the OSHA Act in 1970.
▶ 0:22:10And if safety is our goal, our regulatory approach must evolve with them. Chairman, ranking members, and members of the subcommittee, thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. I appreciate your time and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:22:25Thank you. Next, I'll recognize Mr. Parker for your testimony.
▶ 0:22:32Thank you, Chairman McKenzie, Chairman Walberg, ranking members Omar and Scott, uh and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today to highlight several emerging issues that are essential to ensuring workers can go home safe and healthy at the end of the day. I work as a consultant on health and safety issues, and I am also a senior research fellow at Harvard Law School's Center for Labor and Adjusted Economy.
▶ 0:22:58But I've spent much of the last 16 years in public service leading OSHA, leading Cal/OSHA, and holding senior positions at the Mine Safety and Health Administration. And that is the perspective that I bring to this hearing. The most significant emerging issue that is damaging both worker safety and health, and the capacity of private sector solutions, is the administration's sustained effort to degrade our system of occupational health and safety enforcement, standard setting, research, compliance assistance,
▶ 0:23:28training, and education, and support for private public partnership. The Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 and the 1977 Mine Act create a shared system of responsibility among employers, workers, labor organizations, and government. Despite flaws and weaknesses, that system has resulted in huge improvements for worker safety over the last 55 and that ecosystem is now under strain.
▶ 0:23:57In 2025, the administration functionally eliminated the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health,
▶ 0:24:03the nation's principal means of researching and understanding the nature of health and safety hazards, despite congressional authorization and funding. Although that decision was reversed, the president's FY 2027 proposed budget again seeks to eliminate the agency with a 75% cut that would eliminate all occupational safety and health research and transfer other functions within HHS. NIOSH research is the foundation for many of the employer advances you may hear about today.
▶ 0:24:33Its work is essential to identifying and understanding emerging hazards, validating safety practices like the use of leading indicators, or lockout tagout and developing new technology like continuous dust monitors that protect coal miners' lungs.
▶ 0:24:49OSHA staffing is also at historic lows with well below 700 federal compliance Combined state and federal inspection programs have about 1650 compliance officers, which is smaller than the police force of Charlotte, North Carolina, but is responsible for health and safety enforcement for the entire And yet, the administration proposes further cuts to reduce OSHA staffing by more than 100 FTE and reduce the number of workplace safety inspections by 36%.
▶ 0:25:17These actions will result in more more worker deaths and remove the guardrails that help keep negligent employers from undercutting employers that want to do the right thing and invest in safety. While there are a number of specific emerging hazards that are worthy of including heat, workplace violence, uh and the challenges of AI, the one I wish to bring to the committee's attention is the danger associated with exposure to respirable silica.
▶ 0:25:43Engineered stone countertop fabrication is exposing workers to silica at shocking levels and creating a new generation of workers with severe, often fatal lung diseases by the time they're in their early 30s. Without decisive action, this hazard will be America's next black lung. The industry economic models tries to shift safety responsibility and corporate liability from big manufacturers to small, dispersed cutting shops that lack the capital or economic power to implement the types of controls that would actually be needed to protect workers.
▶ 0:26:15This supply chain model pushes the greatest risk onto the most vulnerable largely immigrant population working in these shops. And in mining, increased silica exposure exposure resulting from current mining practices is driving a resurgence of black lung among younger Appalachian coal miners. MSHA has a strong rule, but it's on pause by the administration while coal miners wait.
▶ 0:26:38An emerging positive development is the growing recognition of the need for employers to adopt safety and health management systems on top of compliance Good SHMS treat safety as a core value based on management leadership, a systematic approach to finding and fixing hazards, and active involvement by workers. At OSHA, I encourage this shift and expanded our own SHMS model to address mental health issues. As part of these systems, I strongly support the development of leading indicators to improve safety.
▶ 0:27:07However, they are not a silver bullet for measuring or predicting safety performance. While it is important to recognize that traditional injury data can be misused or over relied on by some employers as a management tool, just as they might have misinterpreted or over relied quarterly financial statements or sales report, tracking injuries remains a critical foundational component of health and safety. And if you don't track uh outcomes, you can't reach desired outcomes. Thank you very much. Uh I look forward to the
▶ 0:27:35Thank you. Lastly, I'll recognize Mr. Shagrou for your testimony.
▶ 0:27:41Chairman McKenzie, ranking member Omar, and members of the Subcommittee on Workforce Protections, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on building safer a safe future private sector strategies on emerging safety issues. My name is Patrick I serve as the senior corporate director of health, safety, and environmental at Chamber Corp, a 100% employee-owned general contractor delivering complex construction services across the At Chamber Corp, safety is not just a it's a core value. It's a daily responsibility, a shared commitment across the organization.
▶ 0:28:10Recently, Chamber Corp was recognized by the Associated Builders and Contractors with its Excellence in Construction Safety Pinnacle Award, one of only three general contractors in the country to receive this to to see this honor. On May 4th, Associated Builders and Contractors released its 2026 health and safety performance report and that demonstrates how private sector safety systems, including the use of leading indicators, are already helping contractors identify hazards, reduce risks, and improve outcomes before incidents occur.
▶ 0:28:39Top-performing ABC members participating in ABC's STEP health and safety management systems achieve incident rates 686% safer than the US Bureau of Labor Statistics statistics construction industry average, reducing total recordable incident rates by 85%. The lesson is clear. Proactive, measurable safety systems At Jimbro, we know that safety challenges cannot be solved by looking only at what went wrong after an injury occurred.
▶ 0:29:06It requires committed engaged leadership, clear communication, team member involvement, and a culture of trust. In addition, it requires proactive approach, fo- focus on the holistic person, which is why we we utilize leading indicators to help us prevent illness and injuries.
▶ 0:29:22At Jimbro, those indicators include daily stretching, communications, and fit-for-duty evaluations, reporting good catches and near misses, identifying high energy hazards and controls, conducting safety walks, audits, and peer-to-peer observations, craft-led safety and health committees, daily pre-task planning, new hire and site-specific orientations, and last-minute risk assessments. Today in in the construction industry, there are multiple layers of accountability when injuries occur on a project.
▶ 0:29:49Well, those include OSHA, workers' compensation, civil risks, contractual or owner accountabilities, and insurance Just as powerful are consequences for damaged client relationships, workforce morale, public perceptions, and reduced ability to attract talent. Enforcement alone cannot build an industry-leading safety and health culture. To address the emerging challenges, OSHA should also emphasize compliance assistance, quality programs, education, and practical tools to help employers prevent incidents before they happen.
▶ 0:30:19Relying on total recordable injury rates as a primary safety metric is increasingly ineffective and Leading indicators measure the inputs and processes that prevent injuries before they occur and directly assess how well safety systems are functioning in real time. OSHA policy should reward prevention, encourage innovation, and help more employers adopt proven practice proven best practices. People are at the heart and soul of the construction industry.
▶ 0:30:48Purpose of any safety program should be to protect them using leading indicators so we can build a safer future for every worker on every project site. Thank you and I look forward to your
▶ 0:30:58Thank you. Under committee rule nine, we will now ask questions of the witnesses under the five-minute rule and I'm going to go to chairman of the full committee, Mr. Walberg, for the first set of
▶ 0:31:10Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for holding this hearing um that deals with reality in the workplace and uh issues we all have to address regardless of party or preference. So, thank you. And thanks to the panel for being here. Ms.
▶ 0:31:27Martin, uh you mentioned a report in your written testimony which found this uh substantial readiness gap in using artificial intelligence uh which we've had several hearings on recently relative to the workplace and using digital tools as part of workplace environmental health and safety systems. What are the barriers to using this technology to augment uh workplace safety initiatives?
▶ 0:31:54Yeah, thank you for that question. We did just recently do a study um of over a thousand companies on their readiness to adopt AI. And AI has a significant amount of promise and um also uh caution for us to make sure that we do this well. Um it has great uh promise and practicality for helping us identify hazards as we've been talking about this morning um and then even recommending how to control those hazards.
▶ 0:32:18Um one of the things that are is really important is to make sure uh that there's always human judgment in there and that the employees are part of this process uh at each step of the way. Anytime we adopt a new technology, there is often a challenge of making sure it's accepted uh that the employees understand how it's helping them, how it's making their job safer. Um and so having employees at every step of that process is one of the most important things to do to ensure that you can get through some of those
▶ 0:32:45Well, with that in mind, how does the current regulatory structure discourage from investing in advanced safety technologies like AI?
▶ 0:32:56Yeah, we've heard about it here today. There's There is a hazardous control policy that OSHA has right now for making sure that equipment that has energy in it is controlled when a human is near it. Much of the equipment that's available today in the marketplace and is in our manufacturing facilities has electronic controls, which we just heard about. And we call those this whole process of ensuring the energy doesn't hurt a human lockout tagout. Right now that reg is from the 1980s as Mr. Ms. Peters just said.
▶ 0:33:24And it doesn't accommodate some of the technology that we do know if you use it with more manual procedures can keep us safer. A lot of companies will avoid perhaps using that technology cuz it feels as if it is in conflict with the current policy that is in record. That policy needs to be modernized and any efforts that we can have to ensure all voices are at the table as we do that will be very appreciated.
▶ 0:33:49I would say that's one of the the most important things that we can do to make sure that high-end safety technology gets into some of our high consequence workplaces.
▶ 0:33:58Okay, thank you. Moving on on that train of thought, Ms. your written testimony talks about California's workplace violence laws a cautionary tale for I guess basically one size fits all doesn't necessarily fit all. What problems can arise when lawmakers take that kind kind of one size fits all
▶ 0:34:22Thank you for that question, Chairman The issue is that regulations need to reflect the actual workplace hazards that exist in a particular environment. In the example of California's general industry workplace violence law, the problem is that it was created to address the hazards that exist in behavioral health settings in hospitals. I'm not saying that workplace violence is not a serious problem.
▶ 0:34:53What I am saying is that workplace violence, when it presents itself as a hazard across different industries and different workplaces, require different When there's a prescriptive law that is imposed across economy, across industries, employers scramble to comply with the requirements, but they're not thinking about what they need to do to tailor their hazard protection and pro- protocols and controls
▶ 0:35:24to their own specific hazards in their workplace. So, I think yeah, the regulations need to reflect the actual workplace hazards. That's the problem that was presented with the California law.
▶ 0:35:37Kind of common sense as we think about it. Thank you. Um Mr. Shagrou, could you provide examples of cooperative programs and educational initiatives that have successfully improved workplace safety outcomes without uh relying on enforcement actions alone?
▶ 0:35:55Yes, thank you. Uh thanks for the question, Congressman. Um we work um we are Jim Row is uh OSHA Sharp, VPP, and uh one of few companies as mobile workforce recognized. Um we have uh programs that we uh demonstrate to OSHA that we have uh team member engagement involvement in our in our safety process, uh such as our uh 2024 we we we we're going to release new helmets out to our team members, type two construction helmets, and in in place of uh the office staff just choosing
▶ 0:36:25the helmets, we wanted to turn to our team members and ask them to try helmets and uh and share with us their feedback. Um if we apply the feedback, we we introduced helmets to entire our entire company based on feedback from our team members. So, that's an example of uh engagement from our team that really resulted in a change in our company and our culture of our organization.
▶ 0:36:46Practical, real world. Um I my time is expired, so I yield back. Thank you.
▶ 0:36:51Thank you. Next we'll go to ranking member Omar for her questions.
▶ 0:36:57Thank you. Um it's good [clears throat] to see you. Uh welcome back, Mr. Parker. In your testimony, you described what you call a degrading of the health and safety ecosystem ecosystem. Um OSHA now has fewer than 700 compliance officers, which is the lowest level uh in the agency's history.
▶ 0:37:19What does it mean for workers when OSHA cannot inspect workplaces and cannot conduct outreach um and cannot update basic safety rules?
▶ 0:37:31Thank you, um ranking member Omar. It has significant impact across the efforts of OSHA. If uh if OSHA cannot respond to um as many OSHA worker complaints as it used to because it has to triage uh its staff with limited resources, then those those hazards that workers are complaining about go unaddressed.
▶ 0:37:54OSHA ends up focusing its resources on in doing inspections that are going to get the most attention, like fatalities, which appropriately should be enforced, but it limits them in doing the kinds of things that we're here to talk about, which is proactive measures that can reduce injuries in the workplace by addressing hazards before they hurt someone.
▶ 0:38:15And so, you're really turning it into like a an injury investigation agency instead of an agency that is you know, that is out there trying to proactively prevent injuries.
▶ 0:38:26And the same goes for for um strains on compliance assistance, which become fewer and more cursory. And of course in the in the area of regulations you have a staff half what it used to be and you um you not only can't do new regulations, you can't address the um the things that we've talked about today, which I frankly support like modernizing lockout tagout because the staff isn't there.
▶ 0:38:52Um it and the the other thing in your testimony that you talked about was the silica dust. Um a new report by the Appalachian Citizens Law Center found that 20% of mines where um MSHA tested silica dust last year exceeded 50 micrograms per cubic meter uh and 12 of them had more than double of that level.
▶ 0:39:18Can Can you tell us what um the health con- consequences are when you're exposed to that level of silica dust?
▶ 0:39:28Um well working backwards from death, uh you workers are exposed to this um this fibrous material that scars the lungs and I've heard workers describe this as having like a set of truck tires sitting on their chest because they can't breathe as a result of breathing the silicosis.
▶ 0:39:50This is something that's been exacerbated in mines because of the uh changing in the in in uh you know, um coal resources and coal the the depth of coal seams and so more and more rock is getting mined with more and more modern machinery and and this is the result.
▶ 0:40:07The um the rule that's been paused would um would uh require employers to more aggressively monitor uh silicosis uh silica dust in real time, and um and take preventive actions, and um and its pause is resulting in those exposures happening.
▶ 0:40:26It's It's unfortunate that the rule is paused, um and even when some of these um employees seek uh litigation as as a remedy, we have Republicans on this very committee who have co-sponsored a bill that would strip injured workers um of their right uh to sue. Uh so, [snorts] I I I do hope uh that, you know, people start to actually think about what it means to be pro-worker and to protect um workers.
▶ 0:40:56Ms. [snorts] Peters, I wanted to um just circle back on workplace violence. Um you said the the regulation um is one-size-fits-all, and it is hard for different industries to figure out how to implement. Why would Why would that be? Because to me, it would just be easier to figure out what kind of violence you your employees might be exposed to, um and then figure out how to comply.
▶ 0:41:23Thank you for your question, Ranking Member Omar. You're right, it seems like that would be the case. But, having prosecuted a bunch of these cases under what was California's and still is their specific health care workplace violence regulation, I have a deep understanding of how risks and hazards that exist in a hospital environment are very different, and the requirement that
▶ 0:41:53the response in different industries needs to be different. For instance, the the hazards that you would see with workplace violence in emergency department, necessarily, emergency department needs to have open flow and access, so people can come in and out. You can't turn patients away. You're dealing with emotions from patients, from families. Um you have behavioral health issues, you have substance abuse issues.
▶ 0:42:23A hospital environment has, for instance, a public announcement system. So, I've worked with hospitals when I was litigating this this regulation at Cal/OSHA against the UC systems, where they can announce a code silver or code red, whatever they want to call it. And immediately people can Think about imposing requirements for announcement of incidents in a in a field where farm workers are. It's not going to work, right?
▶ 0:42:52So, what those employers, agricultural employers, should be focusing on instead is thinking about how they could safely transport or move their workers that are likely spread out performing their tasks in the event of an incident.
▶ 0:43:07So, that's just just one example, but the idea is that we want employers focusing on their industry-specific hazards, because if you implement that aren't tailored, you have a false sense of security. And it's not going to be effective and ultimately end up protecting the workers. Thank you. I appreciate that. I yield back.
▶ 0:43:29Thank you. Next, I'll turn to myself for a few questions. And the first I'd like to start with Ms. Peters is the number and incidents across the board of workplace-related injuries and illnesses have been coming down for decades now, which is a a very positive development. We like to see that. And it's been across different administrations with different approaches to OSHA.
▶ 0:43:56That continual decline is continuing to occur, which is again a positive development. At the same time, the fatality rates have been stubbornly high and stuck in a a position for quite a long time.
▶ 0:44:11We saw in recent years, the highest rate was actually back in with 5,486 individuals losing their lives in workplace safety in Can you tell me Miss Peters in your opinion why you think that fatality rate in the position that it's in and why we're not seeing a decline in fatalities and also if you have any particular information on on that
▶ 0:44:412022 spike compared to other years.
▶ 0:44:46Thank you, Chairman McKenzie. I appreciate your question. So, certainly with the the fatality numbers hovering around 5,000 every year, we need those numbers to come down. But, this is all the more reason employers need to be incentivized to and invest in safety technology.
▶ 0:45:11This is a perfect example for me of the reason we need to work with stakeholders across the board. They are the ones who understand their industry better than anyone else. And if regulators work with employers, they will be able to understand the issues and hazards that exist at the workplaces and then work with them to have tailored measures to protect the workers in those industries.
▶ 0:45:41We need to allow validated alternatives for compliance and give employers regulatory credit for better systems. I think until these things occur, we're going to likely see a hold in those fatality numbers.
▶ 0:45:55I appreciate your response there. My next question for you would be, you know, talking about these different standards if they are outdated, how we can improve them, and also making sure that they actually result in safer workplaces, less injuries, less fatalities as opposed to just being paperwork burdens and bureaucracy. Do you want to comment on that? Uh thank you for your question.
▶ 0:46:23So, while there is value in documenting the efforts that you take as an employer at a workplace, what I see in my practice is when regulators and OSHA inspectors come in with a checklist or template style enforcement, the employer ends up mirroring that, whether or not they want to or whether or not that's the best use of the resources. And I would sit here and say it's not the best use of the resources.
▶ 0:46:53Instead of uh for by way of example, I I have a matter in California where a client with a very robust safety program, a global client, very sophisticated, great safety folks that work there. They invest a lot in their safety programs. They've received citations from Cal/OSHA because it's a matter of semantics.
▶ 0:47:15When you look at the outcome and whether their program and their protocols protect their employers or excuse me, the employees, the answer is yes. Cal/OSHA has decided that because they don't have the right order of a couple of words in there, that they have a violation.
▶ 0:47:32That is now requiring my client to focus on reworking the paperwork, the language of their programs, spending all their time and resources on things of that nature opposed to being out in the field, talking to their workers, and trying to ascertain where the real hazards are, and allocating their resources effectively to actually keep workers
▶ 0:47:55Thank you. My final question, I'll go to Ms. Martin. Uh in the fiscal year 27 budget, the administration makes reference to the fact that they would like to have OSHA create an AI and data analytics program, and I think we all understand how that could potentially be helpful. At the same time, we want to make sure that it's the appropriate use of AI and data, uh not being over-reliant on it. You mentioned uh this balance that needs to be struck in your testimony.
▶ 0:48:24Can you please comment uh further on that?
▶ 0:48:27Yes, and thank you for your question, sir. Um AI, as I said, does have great promise in helping us to sift through data, to look at past experiences and understand where you might predict your next risk or your next incident to be. Um and that's being used across a lot of industries, and it can be used in the safety community as well.
▶ 0:48:46Um we just need to make sure that as we do that, we address potential biases that might be in the data, and also make sure that as we're uh progressing with the results of whatever the AI is telling us, that we have human judgment that's part of that as well. Um there are privacy concerns when we come to uh any kind of data.
▶ 0:49:04Um we know that in across all kinds of businesses today, and that will be no different with the from the data that we have uh related to safety, whether that's personal data, uh whether that's uh a given employee's uh actions. And we need to make sure that we do that with care, and we do that for the purpose of keeping people safe, um and we have the right kind of policies in place to do that.
▶ 0:49:25Em- employee engagement and employee um participation in that process often helps you get from where you start to a good good outcome, and we'd recommend that for any OSHA program uh going forward, and to have everyone at the table. Have small small businesses, big businesses, labor unions, um other public agencies, um as we go through and understand how we can use AI to ensure that our workplaces are Thank you. Next uh set of questions will go to Mr. Fine from Florida.
▶ 0:49:54Well, thank you all for for being here today. I want to take a slightly different approach in thinking about workplace safety. And obviously we're focused on looking out for workers. Um, but I think looking out for workers is not just physical, it it's mental as And I want to get your take on what I see as a rising problem in this country, which is people who are supposedly working but actually aren't.
▶ 0:50:20So, we've had an issue, it's come into the news recently with with fake companies. Um, there was there's a chain of apparently leering centers, one in Minnesota, one in Texas we've now learned, or fake hospices in California where people are getting paid, theoretically they have employees, um, but but they're they're actually not doing anything. And so my question to you is, do you think there might be and I'll start with Ms.
▶ 0:50:45Peters, do you think there might be a role for OSHA to go take a look at the at the negative mental effects that might exist with an employee who's actually not working and what that might actually do to their to their to their mental health because they're in a fake job where they're not actually doing what theoretically they're on the books being paid to do.
▶ 0:51:11Thank you for your question, um, Representative Fine. I agree that the existence of increasing mental health issues in this country are a And I do think it's an important issue.
▶ 0:51:30However, if what it is that you describe, and if I am understanding your question, and if I'm not, please correct me, um, the jurisdiction between OSHA's between employers and employees. So, if these people are not actually working, OSHA's jurisdiction would not oversee that.
▶ 0:51:48Interesting. Mason, we should look at cuz I believe that when you engage in fraud, there's obviously the financial consequence of it to, you know, the good people of Minneapolis who've had to deal with the Quality Leering Center. But I also think you degrade the mental health of the person who's engaged in that fraud. I think it corrodes and it eats at your soul. I think it explains a lot of the problems that we have in our society today. Um I'm going to transition back to the to the more normal questions about OSHA. Um Ms.
▶ 0:52:17Peters, your written testimony stated that cumbersome procedures can sometimes lead workers to bypassing safety requirements altogether. You know, we can come up with these requirements like in a on a piece of paper and a in a in a classroom and a conference room, but then the guys who actually have to do the work go, "Oh, this is too much. I'm just going to do the job the way I want to do it." Can you explain why practical implementation matters when designing safety regulations?
▶ 0:52:43Certainly, and thank you for your question, Representative Fine. I think the way we have to frame this as to remember that as long as humans are performing work tasks, there is going to be human error and shortcuts. And everyone takes shortcuts, right? The the human brain is hardwired to take And we know this.
▶ 0:53:09That is why when we're dealing with something like an antiquated regulation like lockout/tagout that has prescriptive manual and you put it up against a situation where in modern workplaces, workers feel pressure to produce, it's normal for them to take a shortcut, right? That's that's the idea that makes sense and it's tempting. That is why I think it's very important.
▶ 0:53:39Simpler is better when workers are in those time pressure situations. And to the extent we can have protections that think for the worker because they are dealing with the stress of the modern workplace and pressures with production and time issues.
▶ 0:53:58And the reason this industry exists and and people like me have a job is because accidents happen is to come up with ways and allow employers to innovate. In the case of lockout tagout, alternative means. Something like a light curtain is much simpler. So, for an employee who's who's stressed out, pressured, and decides to skip the lotto proc- process, if they do have that inadvertent contact or the machine starts up, they're protected.
▶ 0:54:28I appreciate that. I I think that you've talked about the importance of these physical requirements, but I would end by noting that when an employer asks an employee to engage in fraud, to be an employee of a company that doesn't actually do work, um that does have a negative effect, I think, on the health and safety of that individual. I think something that we should look into into this committee is how do we not just look at employers that are actually having real employees do work, but how do we use OSHA to look at employers that have fake employees that aren't doing anything.
▶ 0:54:57So, thank you all for being here today, and I yield back.
▶ 0:55:00Thank you. Next we'll go to ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Scott from Virginia.
▶ 0:55:04Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Mrs. Martin, uh you mentioned um you had a focus on leading indicators. Uh did you mean that to be a replacement for lagging indicators or in addition
▶ 0:55:19Thank you. Thank you, Member Scott, for that question. Um leading and lagging indicators work together. They're not at odds with each other. Um and in many cases where we collect data, we want both both signals, um so that we can make sure that not only do we know what's occurred in a workplace, um but also what are
▶ 0:55:37You you you didn't mean to reduce the focus on lagging indicators.
▶ 0:55:42We need them both, sir.
▶ 0:55:43Thank you. Uh, Mr. Morton, Ms. Morton mentioned work-related opioid abuse and mentioned greater accessibility to Narcan and workplace wellness programs. Do you have other suggestions that could be used to prevent workplace related opioid abuse? Mr. Morton.
▶ 0:56:06Is that for me, sir?
▶ 0:56:07No, Mr. Morton. I'm sorry, Mr. Mr. certainly, uh uh, Mr. Scott. Uh, there are some good examples from the Boston building trades in cooperation with employers there that have provided wrap-around services that don't just address the, you know, the immediate overdose, but the, um, causal factors and root causes of why um, workers are, um, finding themselves in the in that situation where they are, you know,
▶ 0:56:37hooked on drugs. So, uh, that could be, uh, mental stress, that could be workplace injuries, that could be, um, you know, personal strains. And, um, and I think it's important to to recognize there are a variety of Um, certainly, um, preventing injuries is an important aspect of um, reducing, um, dependency on opioids, but it does go broader than that, and there are some models out
▶ 0:57:02Thank you. And, um, Mr. Parker, Ms. Ms. Peters proposed allowing employers to submit risk assessments in order to get a special exception from OSHA. would that How would that work?
▶ 0:57:19Well, there there currently exists a variance process where if a company has an alternative means that they want to, um, protect workers that's different from the standard, they can go through that process. It has to be as least as effective as the standard and not present some other greater risk. Um, the um you know, the challenge is So So that does exist.
▶ 0:57:43I think um some of the suggestions in her testimony about doing that at scale or shifting the burden to to OSHA potentially I think raises like concerns about underground rule making that could be could be challenging. But um but for an employer that wants to try out a novel approach um that variance process does exist although it is resource intensive and difficult for OSHA to um to do under current and and and MSHA to do under current resources.
▶ 0:58:13Thank you. And could you say how well poised OSHA is to to assess new chemical compounds introduced into workplace and set workplace standards for those uh new new chemicals?
▶ 0:58:28The OSHA rule making team is about the size of one small department within EPA that might work on a single chemical. And and and that team at OSHA has to deal with all regulations. So no, they are not well equipped and and haven't tried to tackle a a chemical exposure level in um in some time.
▶ 0:58:47And can you say how long it's taken to get a silica rule and what this
▶ 0:58:52How long they've been working on a silica rule cuz they don't have a standard yet?
▶ 0:58:56Well, they um OSHA's uh last action on silica was in I believe 20 I can't remember if if it was prior to 2016. I can't remember the year, but it was the product of decades of of work and research.
▶ 0:59:14And how long did it take you get a beryllium rule?
▶ 0:59:19Many years.
▶ 0:59:20And and so with this small group of people dealing with new compounds um that'd be kind of
▶ 0:59:29Uh it is um it is very difficult. It's very difficult.
▶ 0:59:34Uh you mentioned um a uh when you talked about AI, you mentioned production pressures that cause workers to work in an unsafe way. What did you mean by that?
▶ 0:59:48Uh so these the algorithms that drive performance metrics for employers can be quite um and and you know, don't account for variations in in in people in a way that would be um humane often. And so uh workers have to work at at at paces that are um and importantly, they also perceive that there's an expectation that they work at an unreasonable pace um even if it might not actually be the rule.
▶ 1:00:16And so this um excessive speed leads to um strains, uh leads to mental stress, leads to errors, leads to lack of judgment, and workers end up getting hurt as a result of these um this sort of um robotic approach to management that um that um that that um that they have to contend
▶ 1:00:40Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:00:42Thank you. Next we'll go to Ms. Stevens from Michigan.
▶ 1:00:46Thank you, Mr. Chair, and
▶ 1:00:49um I'll just say that this subcommittee is really one of the honors of the work that I do here in the Congress. I represent uh the industrial heartbeat of this country in Southeast Michigan and Michigan's 11th District. And there's not a site visit that I do where it uh doesn't come up that I sit on the workplace safety subcommittee.
▶ 1:01:13And so, of course, I believe it is, you know, very important for us to have collaborative relationships between uh the government and safety experts in the private sector um to keep workers safe on the job. We should be doing everything we can. Again, we've got the largest and richest concentration of automotive suppliers in the country located in the place that I call home.
▶ 1:01:37I've visited hundreds of manufacturers to meet them where they're at, to meet the workers, and to geek out with what they do. And I also uh do believe that this administration needs to be doing more to protect workers. And so, Mr. Parker, you mentioned in your testimony the need for NIOSH. Um in your experience at OSHA and MSHA, in what ways did those agencies rely on NIOSH?
▶ 1:02:06So, NIOSH's uh research is really world-class. And And as an example, um you know, NIOSH wrote a a criteria document for regulating heat back in 1972 and has continued to um to contribute to our knowledge and understanding about prevention of heat illness in the workplace. And that has been critical information that would um that would be needed in developing a role.
▶ 1:02:30And I frankly don't know how um last year OSHA was dealing with some of the questions that might have arisen in light of the fact that most of uh NIOSH was out of work. Um [snorts] similarly in um in mining, NIOSH's actual contributions to technology were critical in the development of real-time dust monitors that were of an appropriate wearable size that can protect miners from uh black lung exposure and give us real real-time data uh about their dust
▶ 1:03:00Yeah, well, nothing like having real-time data. Um what would the impact for working families be if uh we adopted the current administration's proposed budget cuts to
▶ 1:03:14I think the the the research the raw research that really no one else is doing that underpins our advances in technology and in our understanding of the nature of health and safety issues in this country, it would disappear. And there's really not a not a replacement for that. The research agenda would would would be eliminated.
▶ 1:03:35The NIOSH's teams that go out and conduct hazard assessments at worker requests and and reach collaborative solutions with employers would would disappear. Our understanding of new exposures, our ability to to come up with criteria for dealing with AI and other emerging hazards, that would all be gone.
▶ 1:03:53Yeah, and worker requests are so very important, too. I mean, I spend a lot of time on factory floors and, you know, always appreciate the safety standards that I'm instructed of before I get onto the floor. However, it is actually those incredible workers who are seeing it in real time and do need to be heard.
▶ 1:04:15And the Department of Labor, we want to see the Department of Labor remain remain on the cutting edge of technologies to keep workers safe and healthy. Obviously, you mentioned the real-time data. DOL's relationship with NIOSH is absolutely critical to make sure that it is indeed the case. And I'd also like to discuss the emerging safety and health issue of heat stress. Mr. Parker, you heard Ms.
▶ 1:04:42Peters discuss the heat standard of OSHA proposed during your leadership of the agency. She described it as a set of quote, one-size-fits-all prescriptive dictates, end quote. Is that an accurate
▶ 1:04:57I would characterize it more as a a blend of certain objective criteria and some prescriptive elements with an opportunity for employers in various industries to to take other performance-oriented measures to to address things like um uh uh permeable clothing, um ensuring that that suitably cool water is available for workers and you know, other factors.
▶ 1:05:22So, um I think that um one of the um one of the dangers of alternative approaches that we've seen in places like Utah is that they leave so much to the employer's discretion in a performance-based standard that there's not even criteria for what the temperature what like what temperature harms workers. Um this is objective criteria that we that we understand.
▶ 1:05:46it's more complex than just setting a a temperature in some workplaces where um the hazard is greater even at um relatively modest temperatures because of variety of factors, but I would not characterize that as a prescriptive standard. I'd call that a an objective measure to meet.
▶ 1:06:03performance-based to allow individual employers to implement protocols tailored to heat hazards is not necessarily going to fit the bill. So, thank you very much, Mr. Parker, and I think the lawmakers and alongside this administration need to think long and hard about how we better protect workers and their safety on the job. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll back.
▶ 1:06:22Thank you. Next, we will go to closing remarks and with that, I will recognize the ranking member for her closing
▶ 1:06:32Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you again to our witnesses for being here and testifying today. At the center of today's discussion is a simple question. How best can we keep workers safe on the job? Despite our differences, we all want the same thing for workers to come home at the end of the day healthy, whole, and well paid.
▶ 1:06:53For decades decades agencies like OSHA MSHA and NIOSH have saved workers' lives often while underfunded and Despite DOJ attacks and budget cuts from the Trump administration, the experts at these agencies continue to be the backbone of workers' health, safety, and peace of mind.
▶ 1:07:17I'm optimistic that new ideas, such as leading indicators, can be used responsibly can be responsibly incorporated into our overall understanding of workplace we cannot be reckless with our acceptance of new methods.
▶ 1:07:36We need more analysis and information from well-funded NIOSH in order to be confident that any new approaches to workplace safety will actually save workers' lives. As promising as these new methods might be, it is critical that we empower and fully fund our worker protection agencies so that they can encourage more safety innovation and actively protect workers from dangers such as heat stress, workplace violence, and toxic
▶ 1:08:06silica dust. We must fight back against Trump administration's efforts to cut staffing at these agencies or weaken baseline protections that workers rely on. I look forward to working with you all to enact sensible safety guardrails, hold bad employers accountable, and protect workers at their jobs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 1:08:29Thank you, and thank you again to all of our witnesses for testifying today and answering questions, also discussing strategies to ensure workplace safety as we work together across the aisle and with all the different stakeholders involved. One thing that we heard clearly today is that companies across various industries are stepping up to address emerging safety challenges through innovation, training, and internal safeguards that go above and beyond what is required of them.
▶ 1:08:56It's critical that all stakeholders are at the table when OSHA policies are updated and developed, and this includes workers, employers, and safety experts. So, I look forward to continuing this conversation with all of you as we prioritize stronger workplace safety outcomes while supporting that innovation, economic growth, and long-term success that is so critical to industries all across the country. Like to thank you again for being here today. And with that, this meeting is