▶ 0:07:48Heat. Heat.
▶ 0:12:40committee will come to order. Uh I welcome our witnesses and thank them for their service to our nation. Uh today we'll hear from the Department of the Army uh regarding their FY27 budget request. Uh as my colleagues are aware, I am laser focused on bolstering and expanding our industrial base. Last year, we worked to fundamentally reform defense acquisition system uh via the speed act.
▶ 0:13:04The reforms enacted in the FY26 NDAA streamline the process and significantly reduce the time it takes to field new military capabilities. This year uh the focus of the NDA will be expanding the industrial base both organic and defensewide. Our defense industrial base long the envy of the world has atrophied significantly. Our global munition stockpiles are low and we lack the capacity to rapidly restock magazine depth.
▶ 0:13:33The industrial base has shrunk and so has our ability to manufacture for our war fighters at speed and scale. Our government-owned depots, arsenals, ammunition plants, and shipyards are a vital component to of our overall capacity to manufacture and sustain critical capabilities. But as bad as the U contraction has been in the private sector's manufacturing capability, it's arguably been worse in our organic industrial base.
▶ 0:14:02The OIB has suffered from decades of neglect and Recent conflicts have exposed the weaknesses in the OIB and the weakness in the OIB directly affects our readiness. Mission capable rates for critical weapons systems have fallen well below acceptable levels. I've been beating the drum for a long time on the decline of our OIB and the defense industrial base as a whole.
▶ 0:14:26I'm glad that President Trump shares my concerns and has released a budget request that finally addresses this problem. The president has requested a historic $1.5 trillion dollar budget for our national defense. This budget directly confronts the challenges in our defense industrial base with over 100 billion dollars in investments to revitalize manufacturing, expand uh domestic and allied critical minerals projects and secure our supply chains.
▶ 0:14:54We need to enact that budget and we need to rapidly turn that historic investment into cap capability for our war fighter. That's why it is so critical to understand from the services how they plan to accomplish that goal. Last year, the Secretary of the Army uh offered the transformation initiative or ATI. The goal was to position the army for future fights, streamline force structure, and eliminate wasteful spending.
▶ 0:15:22Congress shares those goals, but uh as questions arose, uh it became clear that the Army hadn't done all of its homework. ATI has since evolved into what is being called the continuous transformation. The name may have changed, but our questions remain. We'd like to see a concrete plan on how the army intends to modernize, where it invests, where the investments will be made, what risks to readiness will be absorbed and what impact it will have on the industrial base.
▶ 0:15:51We want to make the sure the army has done a careful analysis of how in transformation will affect our capabilities and force structure. We want to understand how the army intends to sustain the legacy capabilities our service members still need and use. We want to avoid spending this historic influx of money ineffectively and wasting the opportunity to bolster the d. I'm confident that by working together we can transform the army and revitalize our industrial base.
▶ 0:16:20With that, I yield to the ranking member for his opening
▶ 0:16:23Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I completely agree. Um innovation, innovating faster at scale is the core of what we're trying to do. The speed act uh that you led last year and passed puts us in a good position to make progress on that acquisition reform is absolutely critical to getting to where we need to be. I also think the army has been forwardleaning on this particularly in the last couple of years. had the opportunity to go down to Austin a couple times, visit the training and transformation campaign. There was a real commitment in the army to making those changes.
▶ 0:16:52I I do want to thank both General George and General Hodney who really sort of pushed forward that effort uh in a variety of different ways. Um they served our country very very well. There was a lot more work to do as the chairman pointed out. We are not where we need to be on the defense industrial base or producing what we need to produce. And I look forward to hearing both of our witnesses today about what can we do to increase that manufacturing, get to the scale that we need. The other point that I always like to make is we are going to need to do it in a costeffective way.
▶ 0:17:23Um I think it is highly unrealistic to ask for a 50 60% increase in the defense budget when we have our debt to GDP ratio over a 100% and we continue to cut taxes and reduce our revenue in a thousand different ways to the tune of trillions of dollars. That just doesn't add up. and past a certain point that is a national security threat to this country. Now the good news I think as I've looked at the technology that we have we have the ability to meet our defense needs in a more cost-effective manner.
▶ 0:17:53Um we have developed a number of new systems. There's a lot of private capital out there investing in cheaper missiles, cheaper drones, cheaper ways to shoot down drones crucially um secure communication systems. So I really think we need to focus on how can we achieve our national security objectives in a more cost-effective way. And I worry that once again as we have for the last 25 years approach is simply be we just let's just throw more money at the problem.
▶ 0:18:21Let's imagine that we have an infinite amount of resources and it's just too important to care about how much it costs. Sadly fiscal restraints are part of life as much as we want to try to wish them away. So, I want to hear from our witnesses today about how they're planning on doing all this, but doing it in a way that we can actually afford. Uh, one piece of that, I'm sorry, two final issues that I just want to make sure you address. Um, the money that DOD is giving to the Department of Homeland Security.
▶ 0:18:50Um, we have not been adequately reimbured for that. It seems like that money just goes into a black hole. They have their needs, but DoD has its needs. I'd love to find out if they're ever going to pay back for that and if we're going to stop just having DoD subsidize DHS. The last point, uh, the Army is the lead agency on civilian harm.
▶ 0:19:08Um, this committee, uh, this Congress a couple years ago passed requirements in terms of funding, and I forget the exact name of it, a civilian harm center to basically take a look and make sure that we are not killing civilians when we shouldn't be. Sorry, we should never be killing civilians. I should say that we are not that we're being careful about how we fight our wars and we live within rules of engagement that make sense. As I understand it, the Department of Defense and Army has completely defunded that.
▶ 0:19:36You are in violation of the law right now on civilian harm. Um I'd like to know either a what the explanation is for why you think it's okay for you to ignore the law that Congress passes or b what you're planning on doing to fix that problem. Um with that, I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 0:19:53Great. Thank the ranking member. Uh, now like to introduce our witnesses. We have the honorable Dan Driscoll, Secretary of the Army. And new to us, General Christopher Lenv is the acting chief of staff of the Army. Welcome. Uh, Mr. Driscoll, we'll start with you. You're
▶ 0:20:09Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, distinguished members, it is a privilege to address you today. After a year in this position, I am prouder than ever to represent our soldiers and their amazing families. As all of you know, our soldiers are the very best in the world. They're bold, decisive, and they can overcome anything when we properly enable them. That's why I spent over 130 days on the road across 19 countries in 25 states to hear directly from them.
▶ 0:20:37I ate with them, put hands on their equipment, and had candid discussions with soldiers of every single rank. What I what I heard was clear. Our soldiers are ready to innovate and win, but our own bureaucracy and regulations are still holding them back. Getting what soldiers need to win and making the Army budget actually work for them is definitionally a bipartisan topic and I know all of you agree with that. You've supported our army for decades and we wouldn't be here without you.
▶ 0:21:06But we know the system that should benefit soldiers remains broken. Quality of life and battlefield advantage aren't always the number one budget priority. It's a simple fact and we need your help to continue to change it. We need right to repair language, relief from preWorld War II laws, and significantly more budget flexibility. Thank you so much for last year's progress. But if we're going to win the next fight, we must go even further.
▶ 0:21:35Technological change is accelerating, warfare is evolving, and speed is absolutely critical. Your help to either lower barriers to innovation, or stick to the decadesl long status quo makes all the difference. I invite all of you to come see our transformation firsthand. We are partnering with private industry to adopt the best tech, talent, and trade craft. We're inviting those partners out to our bases to unlock dormant resources and offset federal budget delays.
▶ 0:22:05We're blazing a trail for our nation on nuclear energy, counter drone capabilities, and military AI. Despite red tape, we're delivering better dining, barracks, Wi-Fi, and 3D printed barracks. Even though it can feel like the deck is stacked against us, the United States Army is a beacon of transformation. For instance, as we speak, we are hosting the largest hackathon ever in human history to retroactively jailbreak our siloed equipment. It's named Operation Jailbreak.
▶ 0:22:36Last month in Europe, soldiers showed me how our software systems are isolated, and ineffective against modern threats. Meanwhile, Delta's Ukraine's Delta common operating system, their modular open architecture command and control system is absolutely incredible. It fully integrates every drone, every sensor, and every single shooting platform into just one single network. Ours does not.
▶ 0:23:03Unfortunately, for decades, our budget process incentivized companies to protect their intellectual property at all costs, creating walled gardens in our command and control architecture. This has been the status quo for far too long. It is no longer acceptable and industry is helping us solve it right now. I contacted nine of our defense primes and other large partners who immediately agreed to send thousands of pieces of equipment, engineers, and scientists to Fort Carson.
▶ 0:23:31Together, we will force our way through the firewalls, link every system, and achieve true right to integrate. And this is just our first sprint on it. We will do it again and again and again until we get it exactly right. I want to be clear, this is a perfect example of our army's potential for speed and innovation. No one else has the talent, the drive, and the obsessive work ethic like our soldiers to pull this off.
▶ 0:23:57Operation Jailbreak is the first of many sprints to bypass red tape and bureaucracy. What we're doing in Colorado should be the standard operating procedure going forward. It's the iterative process that makes make America's tech sector the very best in the world. But you would be amazed at the regulatory walls that stood in our way. And we've expanded a sinful amount of energy just to do the right thing. Imagine what we could do if you continue to help us slash those restrictions.
▶ 0:24:27We can do more if you help us balance oversight with speed. We can maximize our budget if you help us partner with America's entrepreneurs. We can move faster if you help us shed obsolete equipment and invest in the future. And with your help, we can ensure the Army remains the dominant land fighting force for the next 250 years. Thank you so much for having us and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. General, you're recognized.
▶ 0:24:55Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee today. The credibility of our army is defined by what it is prepared to do, not what it intends to do. So, every decision I make enables our soldiers to be more lethal and ready to fight and win and serve as the backbone of the joint force. In the Indo-Pacific, we're building a force postured to deter threats to US national interest and designed to extend the operational reach and endurance of the joint force.
▶ 0:25:23Right now, 87,000 soldiers are campaigning throughout the region. Our Typhoon missile systems are forward deployed to the Philippines and Japan. We position Elams in Guam and the IPIC uh unit in Korea, extending next generation air and missile defense against current threats in the region. The first and third multi-dommain task forces are now operational in the region. And this fall, the fourth multi-dommain task force headquarters will stand up at Fort Carson.
▶ 0:25:51Each MDTF brings together long-range fires, intelligence, electronic warfare, space, and cyber, all integrated into a single theater level capability designed to support joint force commanders across vast distances of the Pacific. Every one of these capabilities exist because of the investments this committee supported. In the Middle East, our army forces continue to defend US personnel and partners while sustaining layered air and missile defense, longrange strike capabilities, and operational logistics across SenCom.
▶ 0:26:21And at home, we're preparing the force for future conflict at our combat training centers. It's where we train our soldiers to fight against an adversary in the mud, to solve complex problems, and to test our latest systems. But we cannot field our modern kit while sustaining aging systems that consume time, money, and manpower. Devesting legacy platforms reduces the maintenance demand that falls hardest on our junior soldiers and frees resources to advance next generation systems.
▶ 0:26:49That's why we restructured our how we acquire design, sustain and field equipment with a decisive focus on speed, the right to repair and systems modularity. That thinking is already reflected in some of the next generation platforms we're going after like the XM30 infantry fighting vehicle, the M1 E3 Abrams, and the MV75 Cheyenne, which provides unprecedented speed, range, and flexibility.
▶ 0:27:15Each of these systems are designed so that the next operational upgrade requires integration, not a completely new start. But none of this matters if we can't produce and sustain at scale. That's why we continue to modernize the OIB through advanced manufacturing, depot modernization, and expanded partnerships with industry, including enhanced use leases that accelerate infrastructure development and production capability.
▶ 0:27:41And while industrial capacity is important, the strength of our army is only as strong as our ability to retain experienced soldiers and whether the force we're building reflects the standards we claim to uphold. That standard includes 4 billion in infrastructure investments throughout two 2026. We're rolling out campus style dining facilities. We're scaling our holistic health and fitness across the entire force. And soldiers see the difference and so do American citizens.
▶ 0:28:08Our recruiting numbers are soaring and we're on track to achieve this year's target way ahead of schedule. Because in the end, soldiers are the reason your army can do what it does. Your army delivers intelligence and fires that enable maneuver. We sustain operations. We protect the force. And we provide the command and control architecture that allows the joint force and America's allies to operate together.
▶ 0:28:32Every component of the joint fight depends on our army's ability to do all those things simultaneously and exceptionally well. And we will not fail our country. This will defend. And thank you all for your continued support as we sustain the best army the world has ever seen.
▶ 0:28:49Thank you, General. Uh, I recognize myself now for questions. General, I read an ABC News article uh recently about you having to scramble um to slash some training cost uh and uh make some other adjustments to deal with a 4 to6 billion dollar shortfall. Can you tell me why that shortfall occurred and how it's impacting you?
▶ 0:29:11Turn your microphone on, please.
▶ 0:29:13Yeah, thank you, sir. Sir, first off, we haven't canceled anything. Uh the report is false. It's based off of prudent planning that we always do normally around this time of the year to take a look at what levers that we can pull as we near the end of the FY. We are we do have a shortfall uh right now and you you talked about it uh well, ranking member Smith talked about it in the opening statement about some of the reimbursements that were due uh back in
▶ 0:29:41Why don't you go ahead and address his question right now? How how you going are you going to be backfilled by DHS with that with that money? We believe we will. Sir,
▶ 0:29:48do you know what the time frame is?
▶ 0:29:50Uh, Chairman, we we've spoken with U. Secretary Mullen, we're working handinhand with his team. We told your colleagues in the Senate a couple of days ago, we're optimistic within a week or two. There should be meaningful mo movement on that. We are equally aligned that we want that uh those backfilled payments and so we will uh stay in touch with your office if that does not occur.
▶ 0:30:09Yeah, please do. We we will help you with that. You're supposed to be back filled and as I understand the money is now available. Uh but anyway, secretary, you made reference to this in your opening statement. I want you to tell me more about this right to integrate. Uh how's it working and what's the goal exactly? What is the right to integrate?
▶ 0:30:26Yes, sir. So, uh chairman, it is basically this idea that every single system that creates a piece of data should be able to share that data anywhere with the United States Army needed to go and then that system can receive data. Over the last 30 and 40 years, the vast majority of our systems have been designed for closed purposes. Um, historically that did add a degree of security, but practically speaking, what that does today is it prevents you from being able to use things like Agentic AI solutions.
▶ 0:30:52And when you're thinking of drone swarms and the threats to react, a human being cannot do that alone. And so by breaking open these systems and allowing them to communicate with each other, that will push us forward massively to be able to transform our army.
▶ 0:31:05Yeah. And I think that's going to be essential for us to be able to use AI to its maximum potential. You also mentioned when you talked about it us helping you break down some walls. Are there some statutory changes that you need us to make to facilitate that?
▶ 0:31:18Um chairman, I think it's more on the right to repair side. The right to integrate side is we just have to do a better job as an army of requiring it. And I just want to give a a very sincere positive statement about the large defense primes who I'm on record uh bashing quite often. They've been incredible in helping us with this process. A lot of the largest American defense companies have really stepped up in the last two weeks and currently as we sit here right now there are literally hundreds of developers and programmers working on this task on all of our behalf and our soldiers behalf.
▶ 0:31:48Great news. I yield to the ranking
▶ 0:31:50Uh thank you Mr. Chairman. I yield my time to the gentleoman from Hawaii, Mr.
▶ 0:31:56Thank you Mr. Chair. Ranking member Secretary Driscoll. Uh the reason I'm actually going first to ask questions is because I'm going to be jumping on a plane to go to my son's graduation tomorrow. It's a big moment. Uh and I
▶ 0:32:10Thank you. It's been a long 18 years. Um I share this with you though because it's an emotional time for a lot of families. It's a time when we watch our kids go away to the mainland. Many of them don't come back. See, from a young age, we're we understand that land is not just real estate. It's a promise of home. And we have seen so much of our land stolen, taken away, bought off.
▶ 0:32:38Whether it's the federal government or wealthy investors, we don't want to lose even an inch. Even an inch. So I need you to understand the passion with which I have questioned many that came before you because for us it is deeply personal and when you talk about condemnation when the only language that we've seen put before the committee has been talks of being able to acquire this land through eminent domain it breaks our heart.
▶ 0:33:06It angers us because we've already had too much stolen and you know for a fact the land we are talking about at Pohakuoa training area is already stolen land and to steal it again would be absolutely heava. It would be absolutely wrong to do this. And so I ask you as a mother looking back at the fact that more Native Hawaiians live outside of Hawaii than in Hawaii because we don't have land to spare. Will you commit to me?
▶ 0:33:36That we can take any language of condemnation. That [snorts] we can rip it up. We can take condemnation completely off the table and we can have a discussion about a real lease negotiation. Let's talk 25 years. Let's talk about real cash, not a dollar for 65 years like it's been. Can we talk about taking condemnation off?
▶ 0:33:59taking that gun away from the head of the state and from all Native Hawaiians right now who feel that pain and simply talk about a lease renegotiation, terms and conditions, community working on the EIS. Can we do that,
▶ 0:34:17Uh, Congresswoman, um, I don't say this next statement lightly. The people of Hawaii have been absolutely incredible to our soldiers and their families for many years. um when I have gotten a chance to go visit, it is one of our most requested duty stations and it is because the community has adopted our soldiers into the u into their lives and I sincerely want to say thank you for that.
▶ 0:34:37To your specific question, um my understanding has been since the day I stepped foot on that ground and started interacting with the state government, this is an issue that is coming up quickly. This land, this training land is incredibly
▶ 0:34:50Mr. Secretary, I need to interject because I don't have much time. You have 39 months You have time. You have time to do this the right way. You have time to make sure that for this land that we are talking about, we can leave it to the next generation of Hawaiians to determine the sovereignty and autonomy of this lands. Condemnation would take that away from them. Committing now that you will take that condemnation off the table.
▶ 0:35:13Again, all language that has been submitted to committees, been in discussion with the governor, take away condemnation and talk about year leases. Have you ever talked about anything other than condemnation? Have we talked about a 25-year lease renegotiation and terms and conditions?
▶ 0:35:29Congresswoman, my understanding from interacting quite often with the local government is it is a practical impracticality that the state government can possibly even do a lease between now and 2020.
▶ 0:35:39So, has the has our state government then the governor's office who I assume you have been negotiating with with Governor Green and his team. Is that correct? When you say state and local
▶ 0:35:48and local uh participants.
▶ 0:35:50Okay. So, have they never put on the table simply a lease extension, a new lease? Have they been okay with condemnation? Because here's the thing about condemnation. It's a unilateral action. And if we're committing to real negotiations because, as you would have said yourself, Hawaii has been a gracious host. This is not how you treat people who have given you and shown you aloha. Has it ever been tossed on the table that we should have a lease negotiation versus
▶ 0:36:21Uh, Congresswoman, the governor, his team, all of the local advocates have fought incredibly tirelessly um and proposed all sorts of solutions. My
▶ 0:36:29solution's been anything other than
▶ 0:36:31My they have proposed a number of solutions. My responsibility, Secretary of the Army, is care about our soldiers, their lethality.
▶ 0:36:37We all care about our soldiers and want the best. Can you tell me that right now we can take condemnation off the table and commit to a lease for negotiation? Every path is hard. It's about doing the the right way. That's what I'm looking
▶ 0:36:49Uh Congresswoman, we we have to leave
▶ 0:36:51gentle lady's time's expired. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Cal uh South Carolina, [laughter] Joe Wilson.
▶ 0:36:59Indeed. Uh in indeed uh please it's South Carolina like with the secretary North Carolina. So please don't get them confused. Uh, with that in mind, uh, thank you, Chairman Mike Rogers, for your efforts at bipartisanship. Uh, and it's exciting to see this, uh, hearing today.
▶ 0:37:15And as a 31-year veteran of the Army Guard myself, uh, with four sons who've served in Iraq, Egypt, or Afghanistan, I have never been more proud of America's military, assisting Syria as a dictator Assad fled to Moscow, assisting and arresting the dictator of Maduro of Venezuela, eliminating the dictator Kmeni of Tehran while rescuing our pilot in Iran, leaving no one behind.
▶ 0:37:45and hope for freedom is provided for the people of Syria and Venezuela and Iran. Uh dictators are on the run around the world which historically I don't think that many have um disappeared in a year and a half ever. But thank you for all of you for your success.
▶ 0:38:02I want to thank the witnesses uh for your service uh dedicated service and appearing today as the army confronts growing threats from the Chinese Communist Party war Putin, Iran, North Korea and other adversaries. Land power remains an essential in deterring aggression, reassuring allies and defeating threats across multiple theaters.
▶ 0:38:24We're now engaged in a multi-dommain competition spanning industrial capacity, hypersonic missiles, cyber capabilities, drones, long range fires, and contested As a as courageous Ukrainians defeat war criminal Putin, just as we have uh learned missile defense from Israel, we can now learn about drone and robotics from the success of stopping war Putin by the very talented people of Ukraine.
▶ 0:38:54With that in mind, uh we must ensure that America's military remains modernized and strong truly for peace through strength. And Mr. Secretary uh to address the slow acquisition timelines for capabilities soldiers need now whether that is long range precision fires the mobile tactical uh cannon counter UAS or contested sustainment.
▶ 0:39:20What is the army doing to facilitate acceleration of fielding timelines while ensuring domestic suppliers consistent with President Trump's American first industrial-based strategy are prior to
▶ 0:39:33Congressman, um I I couldn't agree more and I just want to go on record stating how proud we are of our soldiers and everything they've done in the last year under President Trump and Secretary of War Hex's leadership. the United States Army has been able to move out and do things we haven't done in decades to cut down the bureaucratic timeline to get our soldiers what they need. So specifically what we've done in the last year is we we cut down our PEOS which were a number of siloed acquisition professionals with approximately 15 steps along each process.
▶ 0:40:02Each of those steps could reset a purchase back to the beginning and this led to outcomes where it could take 2 to four years to buy things we knew we wanted and needed. We have consolidated down to new PAEEs. And as an example of the success, on day five of Operation Epic Fury, we knew we needed to see uh surge more counter drone solutions into theater. By day 10, we had purchased 23,000 and by day 20, they were starting to flow into theater with Ranger Regiment 82nd helping to train our soldiers forward.
▶ 0:40:31And that is all because of the um changes that we made to our acquisition.
▶ 0:40:35Well, again, the opportunities we have of learning from our allies. I I hope there was an article yesterday in the Washington Times front page about the success of Ukrainian drones and robotics uh to defeat uh war Putin uh and uh and and the oppressed people of Russia. With that in mind, too, I'm really grateful I represent Fort Jackson, the initial army training facility and general and secretary.
▶ 0:40:59It's always exciting to be at the airport in Colombia and see these young people come in with a a brown envelope uh to be greeted by the drill sergeant. And so uh and uh and I I I look at it, wait, look at the opportunities and uh fulfilling lives these young people are going to have. With that in mind, there's a program there for the future soldier prep course and I I've been really impressed with it. And I uh Mr. Secretary, I uh as we approach issues, what is the future for the uh for that course?
▶ 0:41:28Congressman, uh, I actually did basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Uh, and it was an honor to go back and I I would challenge any American that isn't feeling good about your country. Go watch a graduation at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, as these um previously civilians nine weeks before come out as soldiers and so many families are crying. And um, one of the things about Future Soldier Prep course that makes it so special is when you get there, there's a YW wall. And so these are for civilians who just can't quite make the cut for whatever the reason is.
▶ 0:41:57And so they when when they get to the course, they write their why of being there. And what we have found is these soldiers who go through between two and 10 weeks of additional training either on academics or fitness or diet, they come out and have the exact same
▶ 0:42:10gentleman's time. You're ahead of the curve. Thank you,
▶ 0:42:13Chair. I recognize a gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney.
▶ 0:42:15Thank you. Uh Mr. Chairman, um, Secretary uh Driscoll, on May 1st, 4,000 uh, Army soldiers of the second Armored Brigade combat team attended a color casing ceremony, a a sendoff ahead of deployment to Eastern Europe that the army had announced uh, last March. Uh, at the ceremony, Major General Tom Fely, who's the head of the First Cavalry Division, gave some very stirring remarks where he said, quote, "Make no mistake, our adversaries are paying attention.
▶ 0:42:43When an armored brigade combat team deploys forward, it sends a clear and unmistakable signal. The ABCT is the embodiment of American ground combat power. Given [clears throat] the fact that the administration just canled uh this deployment a couple days ago, we had people actually already over there right now. I guess the the question sort of begs itself, which is does is the opposite true?
▶ 0:43:05if our adversaries are paying attention, is the cancellation of a deployment of a brigade combat team sending uh again the opposite uh signal in terms of our commitment to our allies uh in Eastern Europe.
▶ 0:43:20Sure. Thank you for the question. Uh we we uh the COCOM commander General Grinkovich uh you know received the instructions uh on the the force reduction. I've I've worked with him in close consultation of what that force unit would be. Uh and it was made the most sense for that brigade uh to to not do its uh its deployment in theater.
▶ 0:43:44Um we cons continue to work closely with General Grinkovich and his team uh on ensuring that he has the right forces uh from us, the title 10, you know, uh headquarters here that mans, trains, equipss, and gets the units ready for their deployments. So, uh, we worked with him on, uh, what would be the the unit that would, uh, would not execute the mission.
▶ 0:44:07Well, again, [clears throat] I think, uh, General Felt is right that our adversaries are paying attention and that, uh, I mean, I appreciate the answer, but frankly, I don't think that really, um, rises to the moment in terms of just again the the situation that exists in Europe. And frankly, it's not just our adversaries that are paying attention. It's our allies.
▶ 0:44:26uh Poland, which is apparently where the deployment was at least gonna uh you know begin and originate, um has is an ally that's spending 4.8% uh of GDP in terms of uh their defense budgets and and all the other Baltic countries are up in that range as well. And given the fact that the administration also cancelled or is pulling back 5,000 troops out of Germany, um I'm sorry.
▶ 0:44:49I just think this is a horrible message uh that again our adversaries and allies are paying attention to. U Mr. Secretary, um Chairman Rogers talked about the fact that this committee is laser focused on the industrial base, which again I think there's bipartisan lockstep unity on that question. your budget um cuts aviation uh ar fix fixedwing u aviation rotary wing aviation at to historic levels.
▶ 0:45:19A couple days ago, Secretary Hegsth appeared before uh the House Armed Services Committee. My colleague from Connecticut U Miss Deloro raised the point about you know you are decimating the industrial base with that radical uh reduction uh in investment um which by the way uh the Army National Guard is was requesting 24 Blackhawks in their uh 20 27 uh statement that's there.
▶ 0:45:45Uh, Secretary Hexf actually said he agreed that we need to take another look at that, quote unquote, uh, during the the hearing. And I just would ask you whether you agree with Secretary Hegs that that um, you know, the the impact in terms of the industrial base requires a second look.
▶ 0:46:02Um, uh, Congressman, from your reference to his remarks, I don't know all the depth of what was implied, but I absolutely agree that we will take a a hard look with the Office of Secretary of War and make sure that we are synced with uh, their strategy and their plans as they look across the joint force and balance their requirements and needs of the military as a whole. a critical part of the industrial base which u this committee is going to be very um attentive to as we get closer to markup.
▶ 0:46:31I yield back. Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes a gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Turner.
▶ 0:46:37Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, thank you for also your focus on the issue of production. Uh it is the the main issue that we're all trying to address. Uh in Ohio we have the joint systems manufacturing center also known as the lime tank plant and it is one of those uh facilities that is a a great illustration of the struggles or the issue that we face in trying to increase production.
▶ 0:47:05We just had an industry panel and they identified one of the greatest difficulties in trying to increase production as the inconsistent demand signals that come from the Pentagon because it both affects the issue of costs and also production schedules and therefore capacity. It affects their ability to go and attract capital out in the markets. It affects their ability to have healthy supply chains.
▶ 0:47:33Many times supply chains can even dry up with a inconsistent demand signals from the Pentagon. It affects their ability to maintain a workforce. Um and the they they indicate that many times the Pentagon acts like that they that they can just turn on and off production and then come back tomorrow and it would just just be there. They need to be able to plan and project in the future.
▶ 0:47:58Now at the joint systems manufacturing center in the past I have seen in trying to support the lime tank plant in Ohio you know over for example a four consecutive year period the army has in the past zeroed out funding for army for Abrams tanks only then to come back and request funding for 135 tanks two years later funding has fluctuated between 165 tanks and then gone to as few as 34 tanks.
▶ 0:48:27Now, this is a governmentowned facility that is contractor operated. It's as if the Pentagon looks at the Army tank plant as if they're going to an auto dealership to buy vehicles when obviously they can't. They they own the workforce. They own the supply chain. And if no one has responsibility for this at the Pentagon, then the supply chain uh dries up, the workforce moves on, and then we don't have an ability to uh to focus on on production.
▶ 0:48:55I appreciate that you're focusing on this, but when we look at the fiscal year 27 Army budget, the request has for the joint systems center a total spending level of $39 million for in infrastructure investment at the joint systems manufacturing center alignment plant, which is a 215% increase over FY26 levels. Excellent.
▶ 0:49:17But the budget also includes funding for the upgrades of 22 M1 A2 Abrams for a total of a 654 million decrease over fiscal year 26 funding. The lower quantity of M1 A2 upgrades and huge increase in investment at the plant is in part as a result of the development of the Army transitioning to the production of the new M1E3 main battle tank at Lima.
▶ 0:49:43I'm concerned that the gap in funding between decreasing M1 A2 upgrades and ramp ramping up of the M1E3 will leave a gap in work at the line, forcing either layoffs or relocations. Again, the supply chain and the workforce will be impacted. So that when we go back to for production for the M1 E3, we're going to have this this spot turning on and off aspect that will impact production.
▶ 0:50:09Um, so what are the army's plans for transitioning from the M1 A2 upgrades to the M1 E3 production? And how do we get, which I know you're struggling with, how do we get to the point where the Pentagon can actually uh project and take into consideration its understanding of up and down its supply chain and up and down its workforce of actually a facility that the government owns, only one in North America.
▶ 0:50:35Uh, Congressman, we we we've tried to work handin glove with General Dynamics, who is the uh contractor at the Lima plant. Um, this is one of the issues that the longer I've been in the seat, the more complex I realize it is. And it's complex because we don't operate like a private business. And I know all of you know that, but because we can't do things like at scale multi-year procurement, because the average secretary of the army is only seat 23 months, because all of you have preferences on where the dollars go that don't ma necessarily match where we think they should, and that's okay. That's good government.
▶ 0:51:05That makes it where it is very difficult to provide long-term demand signals. And so if you think of why things like cost plus come to be, it is because we the government or we the army when we tell industry what we want, by the time that thing is actually there, we may have changed our mind for all sorts of reasons. We under continuing resolutions, which I think 18 of the last 20 years, we can't do new start. So they just can't trust us
▶ 0:51:25which have horrific impacts on you. And so we end up doing all of these kind of backwards economic structures like cost plus pricing which no one would prefer but these are the
▶ 0:51:33let us help you as you come up with recommendations to address these issues. Let us help you and give us recommendations to affect it because we understand it affects capital costs and of course. Thank you Mr. Secretary. Thanks Congressman.
▶ 0:51:48Thanks much. Gentleman kneels back. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from California Mr. Gar Thank you. Uh I'm going to follow up on what my colleague Mike was talking about and also u my colleague Joe here. It comes down to where are you going? What is the future of the army? You have this army transformation initiative. Uh it appears as though it goes left on Monday and right on Tuesday.
▶ 0:52:19There's not a consistency. This committee must have from you, Mr. secretary and and general a very clear understanding of what the army transformation initiative is in all of its major elements. Um, we just heard a discussion about U. Abram's tanks and we heard a discussion earlier about uh force in Poland or not in Poland.
▶ 0:52:48And so what we're seeing is here is a significant inconsistency of direction and we need to know we're going to put together the NDAA in the days ahead and that NDAA has to I assume assume the army is really interested in its transformation initiative. What exactly is it that you intend to do? What are the top three f or five parts of that initiative?
▶ 0:53:18We're going to have to give you the authority. Or maybe we disagree and don't want you to go in that direction. But what we're seeing here is enormous inconsistency in direction. And that is not going to suffice as we put together the future direction and laws that the army is going to have to carry out.
▶ 0:53:42Uh there's also a very serious problem in the mission capability rates of all of your equipment. It's trending negative. How are you going to address that? And is that part of the uh transformation initiative? I would hope that the ability to maintain your equipment is part of that. It's fundamental.
▶ 0:54:05And yet what we're seeing over time is a lack of attention by the army on the ability to maintain its equipment. How are you going to address that? There's a pile of money coming your way, at least in the president's budget. Will that be used for the initiatives in the uh army transport uh transformation?
▶ 0:54:30Will it be used for maintaining your How are you going to deal with that? And finally, what lessons have you learned from Ukraine? So, let's go at this one one at a time. The Army Transformation Initiative, what are your three major actions, Mr. Secretary?
▶ 0:54:48Uh, Congressman, uh, action one is until data can be shared between every system seamlessly. On the business side of the army, we always describe the army as two core functions. One is a killing machine on behalf of our nation that we hope we don't need. The other is a large enterprise scale business. When we came in about a year and a half ago, we had 650 individual siloed business systems. We've cut it down to about 220. We're trying to get into the teens.
▶ 0:55:11So, that's an organizational issue.
▶ 0:55:13That is a reorganizing silo breaking issue, Congressman.
▶ 0:55:17All right, that's one. How about two and
▶ 0:55:19Uh, two is all of our equipment. Every single thing that my colleague uh General Lee mentioned every piece of equipment we buy has to be modular in an open architecture which practically means it should have things like USB ports so that whatever technology in the future discussion about we're going to buy we're not going to buy tanks we are going to buy tanks is it does this initiative focus in on exactly what you're going to need in the future
▶ 0:55:46sure I think it does uh when you take a look at our equipment and and the answer is Yes. And yes, we're not walking away uh from uh the ability to repair our equipment. That's the right to repair, the ability to be able to manufacture our own parts that that we need to be able to do on legacy equipment. Uh it I really look at it in three bins. Legacy equipment, enduring equipment, and then the modernized equipment. Legacy we have to divest. Enduring is what we're going to have.
▶ 0:56:14the Abrams, the Bradley, the uh Apache, the uh Blackhawk until we can get to our new platforms that we have to do, sir, in order to have the best army in the world against a pacing threat that they're going to ask us to counter. In 23 seconds, I'm going to wrap this up.
▶ 0:56:34It is imperative that the army be very very explicit about what it needs and where where it is going on your transformation initiative which apparently is your principal direction and secondly um dealing with the maintenance we need to know what it is that you
▶ 0:56:55gentleman's time is expired votes have been called we will go through this uh next set of questions and then we will turn here at 10:20. So, Secretary Driscoll, General Ne, thanks so much for joining us today. Before I get to my questions, I have um have an observation to make and it's very close to home to me. One of my constituents, First Lieutenant Zachary Galley,
▶ 0:57:20was killed during a training evolution at JRTC in May of 2024. His death was absolutely preventable. The Army report said it was negligence and negligence only that led to his and that's why his parents Gail and Michael had to bury their 23-year-old son.
▶ 0:57:38Secretary Dis, I'd like you to take a serious look at what happened to Zachary and what happened across the spectrum because we spend billions of dollars each year to protect our brave men and women that go to combat, but we don't place the same emphasis on protecting them in training. A report of this committee in 2017 showed that four times the number of our military members die in training than they do in combat. And when those deaths are preventable and when there's negligence at issue, we need to act.
▶ 0:58:08We have a responsibility. We have parents that place their loved ones in our trust in serving in the United States military. The highest honor that they uh provide to this country is swearing their lives to this country. But they swear their lives knowing that the military is going to do everything they can to take care of them. And that's our obligation. And I would ask both of you and I understand the fairest document and by the way we need to address the fairest doc doctrine as a congress.
▶ 0:58:38But also there's a responsibility in our service branches to make sure that we do everything we can in a very dangerous environment and we understand the dangers there that we do everything we can to take care of our soldiers, our sailors, our marines, our airmen, our guardians and our coast guardsmen. That's the obligation this nation has because they raised their right hand and they swore that obligation to this nation to put their lives on the line.
▶ 0:59:02But they also do it under the understanding that our military will provide an equal obligation in doing everything they can to protect them. That's our obligation as a nation. It's everyone's obligation. So again, I thank you for what you do. I want to go to a question that I have about the the ATI. You know, the last time you were here, you know, we said, "Hey, you got some homework to do.
▶ 0:59:23Provide us some of the details on what's going on with the transformation initiative." uh we've gotten pretty uh short explanation of what's going on without the details necessary especially in transitioning things like trade do moving from Fort Eustace there what's happening with T2COM um are we going to be able to get some additional information because there's a lot of things going on here as the army goes through this and obviously a lot of changes have happened in the meantime but it's important for us to understand that especially too when we get questions not only from
▶ 0:59:53our constituents in those areas but also from folks that are serving and going what's going on, what's what's the transition initiative going to be, what it's going to look like, what are the tenets behind the decisions that are being made there. So, I'd like like to get your perspective on
▶ 1:00:06Um, Congressman, the the first thing is I would say I would c encourage you and any of your colleagues to go to an army base near you or in your district, talk to the soldiers. My impression now after having spent about a third of my days on the road is and I get a little bit of misinformation perhaps because uh of the difference in rank sometimes, but my impression is that the United States Army over the last 16 months has made a massive uh hit an inflection point where it knows that it has to adopt to the new rules of the game that we are seeing
▶ 1:00:36in Ukraine, in Israel, in the Middle East, all over the world. Now warfare is changing and there there is a mindset that what we have now is not sufficient and we are we will take the assets that the American taxpayer has given us and we will change to your to your comment congressman of whether we have been uh sufficient in explaining it that is on me individually if we have not and so I would be happy to come by your office anytime and meet with any of your colleagues to talk about it
▶ 1:01:01that'd be great I think it's important to have those those details we want to make sure we understand it we want to understand where the changes have been made and then you know where the future direction is is going. And and those things are important, too, because they affect a lot of the the efforts that go into planning, whether it's the the the the fight up or whether it's the palm, all those things, you know, matter because of where we're going. And as you said, the transition is a is a big transition. So, we want to make sure how do we do our part to make sure the resources get get to the right right place.
▶ 1:01:30General Eve, you heard Mr. Turner talk a little bit about M1 E3. Um, tell us a little bit more. You're looking at making major changes to that platform and then looking at, you know, how do we how do we change the whole mindset about how we modernize from a mindset of kind of hardware first and operation systems, software later. G give me your perspective on how you see software lining up with this modernization and how you using modular open systems architecture to achieve that.
▶ 1:02:00Yes, sir. Thanks for the question. The secretary talked about it, you know, a little bit earlier, but you know, it's it's a a dramatic change uh when you go from a a platform that uh gets incremental upgrades over time to one that you can literally continually upgrade based off of just being able to integrate uh new technology into the system by a simple USB port. I mean, it's a it's a it's a radical way of thinking.
▶ 1:02:29The second part, sir, is is to have the IP rights in the very beginning so our soldiers can actually produce our own uh parts uh and be able to repair uh at scale uh uh all of our equipment. The M1 E3 sir is a huge upgrade. It's lighter. It has uh less crew uh capabilities inside of it. So there's less manpower inside the uh the tank itself.
▶ 1:02:56and I and and we'll be able to get that uh into into theater a heck of a lot faster because of the weight differences from the uh the older model. We appreciate it, sir. Very good. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. We will uh uh recess and we will rejourn or excuse me, we we will return at 10:20.
▶ 1:03:19Thank you.
▶ 1:03:22Good. Thanks,
▶ 1:05:15Testing one, two, three. Test. Test one, two, three. Hello. Testing one, two,
▶ 1:05:21Test one, two, three. Testing one, two,
▶ 1:05:25Testing. Okay. Test. Test one, two, two,
▶ 1:05:28Leave it open for right now.
▶ 1:05:30Okay. It's open. Testing one, two, three. Audio test for mic. Witness mic. Testing one, two, three. Testing one, two, three.
▶ 1:05:38Silences for a second.
▶ 1:05:39Okay. Hello.
▶ 1:05:42What? Oh, man. What?
▶ 1:05:44Okay, we're good. Thank you. Yep. Appreciate it, guys.
▶ 1:05:47I What? Oh, on air.
▶ 1:32:13Give the secretary just a minute to come
▶ 1:32:17Sure. He should be He should be coming up right now, sir. All right. The chair now recognizes a gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Norcross. Thank you, chairman, and to the witnesses for being here today.
▶ 1:32:45Um I spent the better part of the last decade on tactical air and land where much of our discussions today uh have been occurring and certainly over that period of time. We have gone through many changes and certainly the army has.
▶ 1:33:03You know, one of my first experiences was going to a Shinook plant and where they had just invested close to hundred million dollars in that facility, bringing it up because we sent the signal that that plant and the Chinooks were going to increase substantially. So, as we've been asking, they made their investment.
▶ 1:33:26Well, that brings us back to the issue of the industrial They were supposed to go to full rate production shortly thereafter. That got sidelined. And this is where we found out that they said, "Oh, you can do foreign military sales." Which is quite often brought up and tends to be true on platforms that we continue to use.
▶ 1:33:49As soon as a signal goes out that that particular platform isn't going to be used, FMS usually follows that. Now we have an interesting dynamic that uh produc for instance has proposed some foreign military sales. What we haven't figured in is the relationship with those countries what it was two years ago versus today and that is significantly changing.
▶ 1:34:17There's the E7 issue with NATO which was awarded and they're bringing back. So, as I bring up the Rotary Wing and the industrial base, how important it is. I don't build any of these in my district. I'm a free agent. I'm looking at this from 10 years on this committee understanding what it takes.
▶ 1:34:37So, we see that we're all in on Cheyenne and we delivered that platform and that decision was made and we're all in and I think they're doing remarkably well. But the idea of putting all our chips that we're all in for Cheyenne while we're decimating the industrial base for the Rotary Wing is just fundamentally flawed.
▶ 1:35:03And that once we destroy that industrial base to build it back will not be cost effective, will not be quick. It goes against everything we've done and for the last two administrations talked about how we have to keep a strong rotary wing. If you can give me an example where major defense acquisition white sheet has come in on time on budget with the capabilities I'll be impressed.
▶ 1:35:30But we all know it's complicated and it typically doesn't happen. So the fact that we're all in on the 75, the Cheyenne, yes, we have to cover our bases because experience has taught us we need to have a ready wing. So Secretary, I heard the previous questions.
▶ 1:35:52The idea that we can decimate this is sending the exact opposite signal of what this administration's been looking at it is incredibly important, but how that decision was rendered, not understanding that we really won't have an industrial base for rotary wings. Can you walk us through how that decision was made?
▶ 1:36:15Uh, happy to, Congressman. [clears throat] As I said earlier to one of your colleagues, warfare has changed. If if you look at things um like the Chinook, the Apache, the Blackhawk, they have served this nation incredibly well for a long time. And we think those systems will be in our portfolio for a very long time. We intend to upgrade and modernize and maintain them and be good stewards of the assets the taxpayers have given us. Very similar to wheeled vehicles. When we talk about having 104,000 Humvees, it's not that Humvees don't still serve a purpose.
▶ 1:36:46It's just we have a lot of them and we need to go lighter. And so that's why we did it squad vehicle. That's why. And so when we are looking at the portfolio of assets that we think you need for a modern fight in a drone world where swarms of drones are going to be attacking an Apache, it it just currently if you if you look all over the world there there are not good solutions for that. And so we have got to move our mix over and over invest in other things we don't have like unmanned systems and
▶ 1:37:13I'm with you that that mix is there but the cuts this year decimated. There is no moment minimum sustainment when the proposed cuts are going to happen. We need to keep them going for a certain amount of time till we know we're going to be able to be an effective new tilt rotor is ready to go. The cuts that are proposed wipes them out.
▶ 1:37:39You can't keep that second and third tier supplier going and those are the ones we'll need to keep this platform. So, how do you address that? Gentle times expired. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott.
▶ 1:37:51Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Uh, Secretary Driscoll, when was the uh second armored brigade rotation to Poland canled?
▶ 1:38:06Um, just a couple days ago, Congressman.
▶ 1:38:08Okay. A couple of days ago. And when when were um so who made the decision to halt that?
▶ 1:38:17Sure. uh in in consultation with the COMP commander, he received the the uh direction to do the reduction. Uh we looked at what would be the the the best choice. Um
▶ 1:38:29when did he receive that direction?
▶ 1:38:31I'm not sure exactly the date that he received that. was all uh you know relatively uh recent and we worked back and forth uh on uh what those recommendations would be and the uh the order came down that would be one of
▶ 1:38:47I'm sorry I'm I'm short on time. You say recent. When you say recent you mean 10 days or
▶ 1:38:54Yeah, I think it's probably been within the last two weeks. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:38:57Okay. Within the last two weeks the decision was made. So this has been a long planned. My understanding is advanced elements were already overseas. Is that correct?
▶ 1:39:06That's correct, sir.
▶ 1:39:06And equipment was in transit.
▶ 1:39:08Yes, sir.
▶ 1:39:09Okay. Um, when were you informed of the
▶ 1:39:15Just a couple days ago. Uh, whenever uh
▶ 1:39:20Within that two week window, sir. Okay. Whenever we work together with uh the COCOM command, again, title 10.
▶ 1:39:27I understand. And Secretary Driscoll, was your were you informed at the exact same I assume you were informed at the same time?
▶ 1:39:33Yes, Congressman.
▶ 1:39:35Okay. Um, were you consulted about the decision prior to the decision being made or was the decision made and you told this is the decision and we're going to stop this rotation? I had consultations with uh General Grinkovich on uh you know different elements uh that are in Europe uh and and what would be uh the the most uh prudent one uh to uh to stop.
▶ 1:40:04Okay. And these conversations were all within the last two weeks.
▶ 1:40:08That's correct, sir.
▶ 1:40:11All right. I'm I'm I support NATO. Uh I I will say this. Um I mean obviously there's a tremendous overlap between NATO and the European Union. I'm very frustrated with European Union on a lot of trade related issues and I've I've told our NATO partners in my office very directly, you know, you don't you don't get to pretend you're our friends when you pass non-tariff trade barriers through the European Union that damage industry in the United States
▶ 1:40:42like the timber industry with what they've done with the European Union deforestation regulation. So, I I understand um it's tough to balance all of these things, but I'm I'm I I want to get to I mean, my my primary concern, I'm not worried about the 5,000 troops coming out of out of Germany. I mean, they had been plushed up. They're being they're being pulled back.
▶ 1:41:04Um, but I'm it it seems to me that when there's been a long planned it's a nine-month rotation. How long have have we been doing these rotations? They're done on an annual.
▶ 1:41:22Yeah, we've been doing them for a couple years now, sir. since uh since the evasion, but we we also continuously do planning on what the force elements will be uh utilized by the COM commanders based off the needs that they uh they present. But our um the advanced were already there, the equipment was already on the way before the decision to cancel was made. Correct.
▶ 1:41:52All right. I want to read what the what the this is what the Pentagon said. The decision to withdraw troops follows a comprehensive multi-layered process that incorporates perspectives from key in US military in Europe and across the chain of command, said acting Pentagon Secretary Joel Valdez. This is not an unexpected lastminute decision. I I don't I don't see how that statement can be
▶ 1:42:23Congressman, um I I I would say outside of the broader specifics that General Lane is talking about, we are constantly in contact with OSW and the combatant commanders, we are having planning and this is not meant to um hide the ball. This is to say this type of conversation is going on throughout the year every single year and the army is always ready to move people and things based off combatant commander and secretary of war's preferences and so this is not that unusual
▶ 1:42:50secretary I respect you these these are these are major decisions that appear to many of the members of this committee to be lastminute decisions
▶ 1:42:58gentleman's times expired and the gentleman is correct we have been very focused on this committee about force posture and yukcom in particular not being disturbed particularly without what statute requires is consultation with us. Uh, and we didn't get that. So, we don't know what's going on here, but I can just tell you we're not happy with what's being talked about, particularly since there's been no statutory consultation with us. Uh, ranking members recognize
▶ 1:43:24emphasize that point and I yielded my question time, but the one thing I really want, and we talked about this yesterday, General, why? Okay, I can't get an answer to that question. All right, we had a brigade combat team ready to go to Poland, decided not to. And the only answer I've got is, well, that's what they told us to do. Okay, why? I mean, what what is the strategy behind this? And it is a pretty dramatic decision to at the last minute pull a team that you're trying to send over there.
▶ 1:43:50If there's some strategy behind it, then you guys ought to know and you ought to be able to communicate it to us. I yel back. Thank you, M.
▶ 1:43:58Okay. Uh the gentleman from Georgia would like to submit two articles for the record without objection. So ordered. Uh Jim uh gentleman now from California, Mr. Carbajal is recognized.
▶ 1:44:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh and thank you to the witnesses for being here. I associate myself with uh your comments and those of uh ranking member Smith on that subject. Uh UC Santa Barbara which is in my congressional district has been fortunate to house the Army University Affiliated Research Center or UARC for the last 23 years. It is called the Institute for Collaborative Biotechnologies or ICB.
▶ 1:44:37ICB's research is focused on non-medical applications of biotechnology that intersect the fields material science, neuroscience, human performance, and quantum science for army applications. I've been strongly opposed to this administration's cuts to federal research programs across government, including the National Science Foundation, National Institute of Health, and unfortunately even the Department of Defense.
▶ 1:45:06I think these cuts, whether big or small, are short-sighted. We will not feel the impact tomorrow, a year from now, but we will feel them eventually, and our economy and national security will suffer. Secretary Driscoll, you agree that basic re research is important to supporting innovation and advancements in technology that support our war fighters and national security?
▶ 1:45:33In the $1.1 trillion budget request sent over to Congress, I was disappointed to see funding for the ICB at zero for fiscal year 27, which usually receives around 4 million per year. However, in the 2026 UARC management plan, it says all existing UARKs established prior to fiscal year 2010 will be maintained at the original $2 million annual threshold.
▶ 1:46:02Secretary Driscoll, what was the reasoning behind zeroing out funding for multiple Army Uarks in the fiscal year 27 budget request, including for the Institute of Collaborative And can we count on the Army to follow its own plan to meet the least at least the $2 million threshold?
▶ 1:46:23Um, Congressman, I can follow up with your office on the specifics more more broadly. Um, we are trying to be good custodians of American taxpayer dollars. And as we referenced, we are an inflection point where our nation needs to put every single dollar you give us into a direct mission that can immediately impact the lethal lethality of our soldiers. And when we go through a budget process, we have to be very thoughtful about how to balance competing priorities. But I'll follow back up with your office, Congressman.
▶ 1:46:52Thank you, Secretary Driscoll. It is my understanding that the Institute for Collaborative Biotechnologies was appropriated 3.7 million as part of fiscal year 2026. To date, they have only received about 2 million. When can they expect the remaining 1.7 million in funding that Congress appropriated for this UARC?
▶ 1:47:15Um, again, Congressman, I'll look at the specifics and we'll follow up.
▶ 1:47:19Thank you. Secretary Dresco, will you commit to working with me to ensure Army UAR to receive the funding they need to remain open so they can continue critical research that benefits our national security and economy?
▶ 1:47:34We absolutely commit to following up with your office and discussing it.
▶ 1:47:37Great. I appreciate it. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
▶ 1:47:41Gentleman yields back here. And I recognize a gentleman from Tennessee, Dr. Deja. [clears throat]
▶ 1:47:45Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Secret Driscoll, uh, how does the fiscal year 27 Army budget address Army National Guard aviation readiness and modernization, including recapitalization of aging rotary wing fleets, aircraft survivability upgrades, and maintenance support at the state
▶ 1:48:05Sir, if I if I may. Certainly it
▶ 1:48:07we we've taken a look across the entire aviation ecosystem both active and in the in the guard and and to some extent on the the units that we're going to have to deactivate in the uh in the reserves the specifically the ecab in order to balance what we have is an over uh oversized structure uh compared to what we need but we're not walking away from modernizing uh that equipment.
▶ 1:48:34I look at that equipment as an enduring fleet sir for both the active component uh and our our guard uh formations that's going to receive the modernization that they're going to need to fill the gap that we're going to
▶ 1:48:46So this will cover disaster response medevac support domestic operations as
▶ 1:48:51Yes sir.
▶ 1:48:52Yes sir. Okay. Um general uh while I have your attention we'll talk about drones for a minute. They've proven very difficult to defeat as you know and uh it costs a fraction of what the interceptors required to stop them have been costing us. Do you believe the budget appropriately reflects the need for research and investment in counter UAS systems such as like the vampire for example?
▶ 1:49:16Sure I do and our secretary has pushed us uh you know very hard and looking across the entire spectrum of ways to counter uh this threat. Um, I think one of the the ways that he's pushed us and I and I agree wholeheartedly in this direction is is looking at the magazine depth writ large uh and and having lowcost munitions uh with our our higher end.
▶ 1:49:42And then we pushed uh a lot of systems into theater right now to ensure that we have the best protection possible and the newest protection possible. And then the last part is our JI GIATA 401. Uh that is looking across the inter agency uh here of of how to uh counter the threat inside of of our country of of all of our critical infrastructure sites.
▶ 1:50:07And that brings a dimension uh to uh the overall uh look uh for us to counter this threat and to have as many of these systems in our soldiers hands as fast as possible. And Congressman, I would just say uh what General and Eve and his his team of soldiers have done under Jata 401, I think is actually government at its very best. And so Jata 401 is the agency on behalf of the Pentagon.
▶ 1:50:31And because of my role as acting director of ATF for a while, we were able to sync with DOJ and invite in 350 state and local law enforcement agencies. And so this is truly a whole of government approach to the drone threat.
▶ 1:50:44Well, certainly we've seen the benefits of cutting the bureaucracy and red tape from other major acquisitions. And so certainly you know that would apply here. Uh secretary disco Driscoll the missile defense agency is procur pro procuring eighth THAAD battery. Uh however even with the eighth battery on the way demand is becoming more acute given recent engagements in the Middle East.
▶ 1:51:04While THAAD interceptors have been included in the de deputy secretaries of defense munitions acceleration council as a critical munition that production will not reach full capacity until the early 2030s. What are the key gaps in the defense industrial base that must be addressed uh to enable the production volumes needed to sustain prolonged high tempmpo operations and how does the FY27 budget request meaningfully close those
▶ 1:51:28Um what you're referencing that the that system is an absolutely exquisite system and um we will continue to work with those partners who develop it. We've been working with Depsac War Fineberg and his team to not only take those exquisite systems that exist that are manually very difficult to build, but also to layer in other solutions. And so we are investing in small and medium businesses across the country. We're inviting them to our ranges to come out and show us what they have.
▶ 1:51:55But the short answer, Congressman, is that in and of itself will not be sufficient, but we know it. And the 27 budget reflects dollars for us to continue to invest in these other solutions.
▶ 1:52:05Well, thank you for that. Is there anything else from a poly policym perspective that uh Congress can do to help flexibility for the department to more rapidly procure procure these uh critical munitions or do you feel like you're in a good place?
▶ 1:52:18One of the things that can be most helpful is uh consolid consolidated budget line items. This may sound esoteric um and accountingesque but the whole concept was if you look back at the 80s we were essentially given our dollars in 8 to 10 buckets. Whe vehicles may be a bucket. you would give us the dollars, you would then ask us to show you the receipts, and that was the accountability mechanism. We now have over 1,400 different line items that binds our hands into the types of things that we purchase.
▶ 1:52:44And so when we're thinking about counter drone interceptors or whatever the topic is, we can have gentlemen times expired. Chair now goes gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crow.
▶ 1:52:53Thank you, Chairman, and thank you to both of you for coming in and testifying today. Uh, Secretary Driscoll, wanted to start with you. Um, you know, we're both combat veterans, both served honorably in the army. And during the course of my three combat tours, I had the privilege of serving at the so-called tip of the spear. Some of our most elite combat units, 82nd Airborne Division, 75th Ranger Regiment, served with the Joint Special Operations Command in Afghanistan.
▶ 1:53:18And I bristle at this notion coming from the Department of Defense uh from Secretary Hegset that we somehow lack lethality. there's something wrong with our culture because the men and women who I served with uh were committed to the mission and fought very hard and were very lethal when it came for the time for that. But over the course of those tours, what became very obvious to me is that what we did lack was a full understanding about how to win the support of local populations.
▶ 1:53:46uh how to lay the groundwork for uh support for what we were trying to achieve. That we were very good with missions, very great very great with tactics and accomplishing every mission, but we ultimately lost the support of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan whom we were there to serve and to help uh um liberate. So, I created a bipartisan law in 2023 to create a civilian protection center of excellence to assemble the best practices to understand how we protect civilians.
▶ 1:54:16We make that a priority for our military. Uh that CPCE passed on a bipartisan basis years ago. It was nestled in the army where it exists. I'm very concerned by a recent DoD report that says, quote, "In February 2025, the acting under secretary of defense and the secretary of the army each developed proposals for the SEC defe to consider and approve options to eliminate or significantly reduce the CPCOE." How do you square that with law in the bipartisan
▶ 1:54:46intent of this committee, including many fellow combat veterans, that we make this a priority for our military? Um, Congressman, uh, I just want to start off with the the statement that as somebody that also deployed to theater about the time you're talking about, um, civilian casualties, um, no one should wish for those and they create all sorts of beyond the just the morality issues. Um, they create all sorts of negative externalities for a mission that are just bad for the mission.
▶ 1:55:16And so we in the Department of War and the Army are perfectly aligned that we want to minimize those in every instance. specifically what you're referencing, Congressman. Um, as far as I recall, and I will follow up with your offices if this is incorrect, our intent was simply to move it from the army to DO. I don't think we had any intention to shrink it. There was an instance about a month and a half ago where I believe I spoke with your office where in doing so, um, the the United States Army had never matched up its people and its jobs.
▶ 1:55:44And so we spent about 10 months going through an exercise to try to save the American taxpayer about $2 billion a year. And what we had found out in that process is we had never accurately coded the positions for the center. So that when we went through that exercise, it looked as if we were getting rid of it. I believe after we spoke with your office, we immediately remeded it.
▶ 1:56:03I I I we we need to follow up. I know our offices have been talking, but things things are not squaring here, right? This DoD IG report is pretty clear. There were proposals to eliminate CPCE, which is different from a coding shift or an accounting shift to personnel and resources because the report went on and it said uh it found that lost personnel and leadership at COE is hindering full DoD compliance with its civilian casualties and harm policy, a policy required by federal law.
▶ 1:56:31The Office of the Secretary of War and DOW components lack many of the personnel and tools designed to execute the statutory purpose. So, something's not happening. uh it is not conducting its uh its statutory uh role and mission. It's it's losing personnel. It's losing resources. It's being shifted around. This needs to be fixed because this is law. Uh if you don't like the law, we can talk about that what needs to be changed, but it has to be changed here.
▶ 1:57:00So long as it is law, it needs to be carried out.
▶ 1:57:03U totally agree, Congressman. We'll follow up with your office and just to speak on behalf of the army. the intent is to follow all statutory intent and the laws and so um we'll make sure that we're in compliance.
▶ 1:57:12Thank you, Secretary and General Leie Leniv on your end. I just wanted to be clear. I wanted to follow up on um Mr. um Scott's line of questioning when you said that an order was given to Yukcom commander uh to remove the rotational brigade. Where was that order uh coming from? Who gave that order to the COCOM to remove the rotational Yes sir. The uh the direction came from OSW.
▶ 1:57:42Um and uh you know in like we always do sir as we're looking at force
▶ 1:57:47It came from OSW to the COCOM. It did not come through the army or you were not in that line.
▶ 1:57:52No sir. That it goes to the COMO. You know that we're the title 10. Uh we answer to the uh we build the the force packages and we
▶ 1:58:02I understand how the army works. Sir, gentleman's time's expired. Chair not recognized gentleman from Nebraska, General Vac.
▶ 1:58:09Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and thank you,
▶ 1:58:12General Laneie for being here. I know this wasn't your decision. This was the Secretary of Defense's decision, but I got to tell you, it's reprehensible. It's an embarrassment to our country how we just what we just did to Poland in my view. So, let's I know you said we had coordination with NATO or Yukon. The answer, the question, the real question is why? Why have we pulled two armor brigades out of Eastern Europe?
▶ 1:58:39Yes, sir. I I'm not in the on the policy side here. I'm
▶ 1:58:43Well, you are the chief of staff of the army. There is no good explanation why we just removed two armored brigades from Eastern Europe. There's got to be some explanation.
▶ 1:58:51Oh, sure. I think uh as they reviewed the force structure, um it the conclusion was that we could we could reap back one of the brigades that are in the rotation. One brigade. one brigade that's in the rotation po uh pole that we send over uh to Europe. There's still there's still another brigade there. There's still a division
▶ 1:59:10headquarters that's in rotation there. We still have fifth core uh that is over there as well.
▶ 1:59:15But we we pulled the brigade out of Romania. Now we're pulling the brigade out of Poland. Is there a plan to replace that brigade in Poland?
▶ 1:59:21That you would have to ask the COM commander, sir, uh on how he's going to maneuver the forces that he has. We still have a force structure that is permanent force structure that's in Europe supporting our allies uh through both exercises and continual presence on the on the continent.
▶ 1:59:38I know there's may not represent 100% of people in this committee, but I think I represent the views of the vast majority. We disagree. Russia has invaded Ukraine. Have they given us any concessions to withdraw two armor brigades out of Europe as they're invading Ukraine? What concessions have they given us as we withdraw forces? I I can't answer that question.
▶ 2:00:00Well, I don't that's none. And it's just it's this is why it's so foolish. We're sending a terrible message to Russia and to our allies. Here's another question. Do we know if Poland was notified by the
▶ 2:00:12Um, we don't know.
▶ 2:00:13Well, I already know the answer because they called me yesterday. They did not know. They were blindsided. These are some of our best allies and they had no idea. They still don't know what the plan. They know, okay, the order was stopped. They don't know if there's if this is just a a suspension or permanent. We owe Poland who and our Baltic friends who are very vulnerable from this decision. A better explanation here and a rational. We should be doing this before we actually make the decision. We should be coordinating with them. It's an embarrassment.
▶ 2:00:43I'm telling you this is an embarrassment to our country the way this is being handled. And I happen to know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask. Did did you say we coordinated with Yukcom? I can guarantee you they did not say this is low risk. Can can you ver can you verify that because I happen to know they said it carries risk. So in other words it was coordinated with Yukon but they did not say this is a low-risisk decision. Am I right?
▶ 2:01:08Sir that those discussions that risk that from the co- commander back into uh OSW is not part of what the title 10 you know of the army uh does. I was just hoping as the army chief they would keep you better informed. But I happen to know this because I served in NATO. They did not say this is low risk. So in other words, the secretary of defense made this decision over some objections of the Yukcom commander. That's what I submit here.
▶ 2:01:39I just want to say this is a a slap in the face to Poland. It's a slap in the face to our Baltic friends. I think it's a slap to the face in this committee because we've put floors and restrictions on the Pentagon and further reductions in Europe because of what they did with Romania. They they told this committee or the leadership of this committee that we were not going to there's no plans to remove this brigade from Romania. Then a week later it was done.
▶ 2:02:05So there then we responded in the NDAA to prevent this kind of behavior and it's happened again. I think this committee under the chairman, the ranking member, we got to hold the secretary accountable for this decision. It's wrong. Okay. My second question, I know I'm the Baltic security chairman. Latafia and Estonia have highars, but they just have the launchers. They don't have the warheads or the weapons. What is the plan uh to fill that?
▶ 2:02:34Sir, there is a long-term plan uh to fill the the munitions. Um, and it's it's part of, you know, production and and and all of that uh with the industrial base to be able to get, you know, the munitions uh over there. You know, sir, I I've served over there, too. Um, so, you know, I fully uh I fully appreciate your concerns.
▶ 2:02:53It's it's hard to deter when you don't have the war, the weapons to go on the launchers, but I know that the Baltic our Baltic friends love this country. They're vulnerable. They love freedom. They lived under the Soviet rule. And I think the decision of being slow on helping them deter but also doing what we did in Poland sends a terrible message. And they question, can they trust America? And that's a terrible terrible thing to happen when you lose trust with your closest friends. With that, and by the way, I say this again, I know this isn't your decision.
▶ 2:03:23It came from the Secretary of Defense. I yelled
▶ 2:03:25Uh chair now recognizes uh Miss
▶ 2:03:28Thank you, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and thank you, Secretary Driscoll, and General Laneie for being here. It's nice to see you both again. This committee is being asked to evaluate not only the Army's budget request, but leadership decisions, workforce policies that will determine whether that budget can be effectively And at a time when the department is managing modernization efforts, operational demands, and workforce restraints simultaneously, we the policy makers in Congress need a clear understanding
▶ 2:03:58of whether current policies are strengthening or compromising the institution's ability to execute its mission and support around the world. Recent reporting by the Defense Scoop and Federal News Network have highlighted growing concerns surrounding Army civilian workforce restructuring efforts, hiring responsiveness, and workforce stability. And for anyone watching at home, nearly 30% of people who are on bases are civilians. At Joint Base Lewis Court, it's around 30%.
▶ 2:04:25So across the Army, commands are reporting uncertainty tied to those workforce challenges. And my question for you is, what exactly is the Army doing to improve workforce responsiveness and reduce uncertainty for commands and employees? Secretary Driscoll, when we met in October, you indicated that when hiring exemption requests reach your desk, you're going to approve them. However, commands across the army are reporting workforce uncertainty due to hiring delays, restructuring efforts, and extended approval timelines.
▶ 2:04:53What ex what specific actions is the Army taking to reduce this uncertainty?
▶ 2:04:57Congresswoman, um I referenced it a bit earlier, but one of the things we, the United States Army, have not done well over the last 30 years on behalf of the taxpayer is get our arms around our civilian workforce. And by that what I mean is we think about it as our faces, the people that work for us who are incredible patriotic Americans with incredible talent that helps the department and our space is our jobs. And so we took advantage of the hiring freeze that was departmentwide and we actually kept it longer than any other service.
▶ 2:05:24And we had a lot of hard conversation with commanders along the way about why we were doing it. But the intent was to match our people to our jobs. And through this exercise about a month ago, we we got to a final place where what we think we've done is saved about $2 billion a year on behalf of the taxpayer. That's 10 billion over the
▶ 2:05:41No. And we appreciate the saving of taxpayer money, but are you being effective to address the shortages we're having and the challenge that we're having to get a civilian workforce?
▶ 2:05:49I believe we are, ma'am.
▶ 2:05:51All right. Thank you. And now I'm going to talk about um strategic hiring committee and hiring delays. And I'm going to go to General Leniv. The Army Strategic Hiring Committee reportedly has only met twice so far while large numbers of hiring requests from the force remain delayed or denied. Do you believe that the current process is providing commands the responses they need to manage their CI civilian workforce effectively?
▶ 2:06:13Yes, ma'am. I do as as we work back up through the process.
▶ 2:06:17And [snorts] can you give us specific examples of what you're doing to make it work? M all the commands have had an opportunity to to uh you know send back up what they're how they're filling out their their positions and that what exemptions that they need uh to be able to fill critical positions in there. That that comes back up through me and the and the secretary uh and and our uh deputy under secretary in order to approve those uh those positions.
▶ 2:06:44and Congresswoman, just this week, um, we feel good that we've gotten a grasp on the faces and spaces and so we are selectively pulling off the hiring freeze across the army. Uh, and I would guess within about a month or two, we will have no more hiring freezes in Army and the local on the ground commanders will be able to make the hiring decisions they need.
▶ 2:07:01Great. Thank you for that. And my office will follow up with you in a month so we can get a full report of exactly what's happening. So, I want to switch over to the conversation that my colleague um, Congress member Scott brought up about the sudden withdrawal. Well, not sending folks where they were supposed to go. And the army's role in Europe, this is a quote from Politico, is all about deterring the Russians, protecting America's strategic interests, and assuring allies, said Lieutenant General Ben Hodgeges, former commander of US Army in Europe.
▶ 2:07:31And now a very important asset that was coming to be part of that deterrence is gone. And I think the question I ask, and again, I think to someone's point, you did not make this decision. You should have been part of the decision as should Congress. But what message is this sending to our allies in Europe? What message is this sending to Russia?
▶ 2:07:52Congresswoman, um, as I noted in my opening remarks, I've spent about 130 days on the road so far. A lot of that in Europe with our allies and our soldiers. A lot of joint exercises. I was at um, Project African Lion where we had some um, uh, European counterparts there. What I can say is in every meeting that I have had with any counterpart and any soldier, they know that the United States Army is the strongest force in the history of the
▶ 2:08:15Thank you. What message does it send to
▶ 2:08:20I think Russia would echo that we are the strongest, most powerful military in the history of the world.
▶ 2:08:25When we take that many troops away, it says that we are not a reliable ally. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:08:30Gently yields back. Chair recognizes gentleman from Texas, Mr. Latrell.
▶ 2:08:36Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary, General, thank you both for your service and continued service. Mr. Secretary, can you kind of line out what the Army what what steps the Army has taken directly or indirectly to reduce the capabilities, personnel, operations, and readiness of the ECABs?
▶ 2:08:54Yes, sir. So,
▶ 2:08:55and what funding lines were used to do that if Well, sure. We uh we took a look across the board at how overstructured we are uh in the uh the rotary wing uh you know side of our of the army. Uh and in order to balance this uh we have to uh take down uh the ECAB especially
▶ 2:09:18that process has started.
▶ 2:09:19Yes sir. It absolutely has. Now what we are doing is is ensuring that those personnel uh can still you know meet their their flying requirements uh or transition into the active component or a different uh MOS there was not an easy decision. Um the ECABs are very costly uh with uh with their equipment. Um so uh we we made that decision.
▶ 2:09:44Very costly but very efficient. Uh the Army the Army Reserve Aviation has zero class A flight accidents over the past five years. Their readiness rates are five to 10% higher than others and their cost per blade hour is 15% lower, but we've we've cut them down to 50% overall. Is that do I understand that
▶ 2:10:05That's correct. Yes, sir.
▶ 2:10:11General section 1049 of the fiscal year 26 National Defense Authorization Act barred the Army from using any funds to reduce the capabilities or personnel at the ECABs until 90 days after submitting its report to Congress. That day is June 5th. That day has not happened yet. and we have reduced our ECABs to 50% manning personnel and readiness.
▶ 2:10:41Can you explain to me after what I've just read off from the National Defense Authorization Act how that occurred?
▶ 2:10:49Congressman, I can step in um because I was general newer to the role. So I I would take responsibility for that. We will follow up with your office. Um I don't know in depth what you were saying, but I commit to following up
▶ 2:11:00Which which part, Mr. Secretary, are you unclear on what I've which I've that I've stated
▶ 2:11:05the section 1049
▶ 2:11:07section 1049 [sighs] limitations on use of funds for deactivation of expeditionary combat aviation brigades. Section 1049. None of the funds authorized to be appropriated by this act or otherwise made available for fiscal year 2026 for the Army may be obligated or expended to retire, deactivate, schedule to deactivate or proceed with any actions that would reduce capabilities, resources, aircraft
▶ 2:11:38or personnel available as of the date of the enactment of this act for the Expeditionary Combat Aviation Brigade before the earlier of this date. Mr. Mr. Secretary, I highly recommend you and the general come see me as soon as possible. And somebody better answer.
▶ 2:11:56Yes, sir.
▶ 2:12:02Another issue I have with losing my ECAP because I live in pretty much the catcher mitt of the Gulf of Mexico in the state of Texas where it meets Louisiana and Harris County, Houston. My district receives all the hurricanes and my ECAP unit is very much tied in to everything we deal with on a yearly We for the past five years, maybe four or five years, we have spent 14.3 million.
▶ 2:12:33The Army did this $14.3 million to completely refurbish and rebuild the ECABS facility in Conro, Texas. They've been offsite and that the completion of that project, I believe, will be done by the end of the year.
▶ 2:12:51So, we just stroked a check for $14.3 million to refurbish the facilities for the functionality of this and they won't even be able to step foot in it come September. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:13:08Chair, I've recognized a gentleman from New York, Mr. Ryan.
▶ 2:13:12Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you both for being here. Um, I do want to take a moment in my few minutes to say something that um I think is important given recent shocking changes made by the Secretary of Defense. General Randy George. should I believe still be sitting here today? No offense to you, of course, General Leniv. Uh his being forced out ahead of time was a grave injustice.
▶ 2:13:41I think it was deeply wrong. Uh many others have said, including General Keane uh at his retirement, that this hurt our army. It hurts trust. Sends a a really concerning message to the force and to all of our soldiers. I mean, we all know this, but I think it needs to be on the record, and others have said it in a bipartisan manner. General George was a fierce war fighter.
▶ 2:14:05He commanded in combat at every level, platoon leader in Desert Storm, battalion command in Iraq, among other deployments, brigade and division command in Afghanistan. Then took those lessons uh and and throughout those commands, just praised and commended, rightly so, by most importantly all the folks that he led. uh took those lessons and with your partnership, Mr.
▶ 2:14:29Secretary, came into this job and took big swings, was willing to take big risks, was a visionary, I believe, at a critical inflection point to say, "We're going to shake things up. We're going to make hard choices. We're going to debate that back and forth with Congress, and we're going to make our army stronger, our country safer, and do right by our soldiers." And I think he deserves a ton of credit for that. in addition to really turning around recruiting in a substantive way under under his leadership.
▶ 2:14:58And I just think he he in the greatest American tradition represents what it means to be a patriot four plus decades starting as a private enlisting in 1982. Uh and and his wife Patty have just served this nation incredibly well. Always humble, always professional, always giving credit to others. I gained a great deal that I learned from him as a young officer and and in his role um as a chief and I just think that needs to be said over and over.
▶ 2:15:27Um, again, I know as other decisions that we're we're bringing up here today, these were not made by either of you, but they are deeply wrong and unacceptable and and I hope that uh other colleagues continue to to point that out. On a more constructive note, um I do want to shift to a topic that I know particularly you, Mr. Secretary, have been focused on and talking about, which is the cost exchange ratio.
▶ 2:15:57So I think the most important measure by which we need to be thinking about are a lot of our decisions. Um we've seen the depletion of uh stockpiles uh around epic fury and the war in Iran. We also see what's playing out in Ukraine.
▶ 2:16:13And I was encouraged by the um announcement I believe two days ago of the lowcost uh munitions initiatives DoDwide over 10,000 lowcost containerized missiles with a goal of having them uh running by 2027. Um and I know you especially you secretary Driscoll want to commend you've been looking at bringing down the interceptor cost. You've talked about bringing it under I think that's absolutely right. I know we have strong bipartisan support for that. Can you talk a little bit about that?
▶ 2:16:42And I am Can you address a concern? The proposed budget I worry in the high low mix the base budget funds all the high-end expensive overengineered stuff and all of the lower end primarily stuff is going in either reconciliation or somewhere else. I think that's 180 degrees wrong. I'm not asking you to necessarily agree with that although I'd welcome it. Um but can you talk just about how we're doing that across the
▶ 2:17:10Abs. Absolutely, Congressman. Um again under depack Fineberg and Secretary Hexite's leadership we are being empowered to go after these new solutions they are um telling us services to go find small and medium businesses and figure out how we can take their innovations combine them and scale them. And so what we the United States Army are going to announce in a couple of weeks is an X-P prize-like exercise for the interceptor where we're going to basically break it apart into the five or six different components.
▶ 2:17:38So, um, as Seeker would be one, Propulsion would be another, and we're going to go out to the American talent that exists in our research labs and say, do you have a solution that we can buy or lease or rent the IP from? And then we hope to own a lot of the IP and we hope to go find contract manufacturers so that we can scale these cheaper solutions to mix them with the exquisite solutions that are we already are contracted for.
▶ 2:18:02And then the last thing I'll say is what makes Project Jailbreak so important is the command and control that is needed to have all of these systems function at once is the first step to making this happen.
▶ 2:18:12Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, as a follow-up to to Mr. Ryan's marks and and several members, I just want to make sure there is no daylight between me and the ranking member on this issue of force posture. It is not the fault of the people in front of us today that we've had this apparent deviation. But no, we are going to mandate that the department follow the statutory minimums that are set in statute by on force posture and if there are de attempted deviations, we will remedy them and impose pain when uh when they if they aren't complied with.
▶ 2:18:42But with that, let's go to the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Maguire.
▶ 2:18:45Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses, to all of our active duty and veterans in the room. We wouldn't have a country without you, so thank you so much. Uh this question will be for both of you. Um, as you know, the National Guard fields UA60 Blackhawks as part of a aviation component serving the as the Army's strategic reserve. Given the demands placed on the National Guard and its title 10 capacity abroad and its domestic missions, I wanted to ask about the Army's plans to support modernization of the National Guard's UH60 fleet.
▶ 2:19:14You may know that the UH60 Lima Blackhawk, which I can't imagine too many in the military that hasn't some has some interaction with it, costs twice as much to operate per hour as the mics. And I know we're going to the MV75s, but you know, it takes a while to have a new system come on board.
▶ 2:19:30And a lot of times the guard gets the handme-downs from the active duty, but considering how much they do with domestic uh security and you know you know FEMA operations and things like that, what is the plan to take the mics and give them to the Guard because if we shut down production, lose parts and everything else. So what's we we want the MV75 but we got to upgrade 50% of the Guard helicopters that are the Lima
▶ 2:19:59Yes, sir. they're they're deliberately in the plan to to be upgraded. Um the guardways I I'd also like to say you know we're looking at modernization different um the National Guard is in and in and you know all of our compost are part of the modernization. The active component is not the only one that's going to receive ISVS. The active component is the only one that's going to receive some of these new uh new systems.
▶ 2:20:24uh our our our command and control uh changes that we're going after with next generation C2, they're we're all going to benefit uh from these. Um so we're we're looking at this different. So when
▶ 2:20:35so the guard will be getting the mics from the active duty. I guess that's what we're looking
▶ 2:20:39I think we're looking at modernizing the fleet that they have, sir, but we're
▶ 2:20:42bringing them up to the mic standards. Sir, so we're we're taking a look at across the board, but we also, you know, the secretary has asked us also to look at aviation transformation at large to make sure that uh the decisions that were made all on the side of angels still make sense with uh with the evolving uh modernization strategy that we have.
▶ 2:21:03That makes sense. And just because I have limited time, Secretary Driscoll, we've seen legacy platforms like the Apache helicopter adapt in real time to changing characters of warfare, for example, and the counter UAS mission. And a few months ago, for the first time, an Apache successfully employed and launched effects capabilities the army developed and integrated in just six months. Could you discuss what the Apache has demonstrated in these initiatives for counter US, etc.?
▶ 2:21:26I know um when we went to get Maduro and Epic Fury, Apache has really adapted with the rockets, the chain gun, and the Um the the I was with Apache pilots about a month ago, and um they are taking the lessons of war from Ukraine. They are taking what's going on in Epic Fury and they are changing their TTPs. Um they had just done some of their first exercises where the Apache in under c certain circumstances at certain portions in the fight can be really effective at the counter drone mission.
▶ 2:21:56And so they are starting to not only just apply the new technology that is existing around the world to their systems and their platforms, but they're also changing how they practice and
▶ 2:22:05And at least right now, I don't see anything with the capabilities of the Apache helicopter. So I'm glad that we have that still going and we're modernizing it. We're still using it. Um, Secretary Drisel, Operation Epic Fury has witnessed the devastation wrought by Shahid Shahed drones on exquisite radar systems. How does the army intend to replenish and or replace these critical systems?
▶ 2:22:26Um what we've seen in um operation epic fury has highlighted a lot of the lessons of war from Ukraine. Um and it has highlighted a lot of the importance for why the army will be so important going forward in any theater including the Indoacific. The ability to disperse and reconstitute uh um systems that are taken offline is incredibly important. And so this is why we are pushing so hard on right to repair is with advanced manufacturing and the capabilities that are being developed in Konis.
▶ 2:22:54We need to push those out to our theaters around the world so we can use digital design files and other solutions in order for our soldiers to be able to make those repairs even faster going forward.
▶ 2:23:04Are you considering possible alternatives to large monostatic radars such as survivable distributed radar and sens architectures?
▶ 2:23:13smart. Um the Army C US RTD&E budget is more than double that of fiscal year 26 and the procurement budget is nearly 1 billion. What is the Army specific funding priorities for detecting and eliminate and tracking um group one to three drones?
▶ 2:23:30Sure. We're we're looking at every single technology out there to to uh help us defeat this um and protect our
▶ 2:23:37Thank you all for your service. I yield
▶ 2:23:40Gentlemen yields back. Chair not recognized. Gentleman from New Mexico, Mr. Pesquez.
▶ 2:23:44Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Secretary General, for being here today. Uh, Secretary Driscoll, are you familiar with NALMP?
▶ 2:23:53I'm not.
▶ 2:23:54Okay. Uh, NALMP is the Native American lands environmental mitigation program under the Department of Defense. Uh, this program cleans up munition debris, including UXO left by the Department of Defense on tribal lands such as those in my district in New Mexico. Uh the scope of this issue is really magnified and vast on the PBLO of Isleta in New Mexico. I saw it for myself last year.
▶ 2:24:16Isleta has 8,850 acres of land that the DoD used for munitions testing from 1940 1942 to 1961 under the former Los Lunas Air Force Range. And the DoD left that land contaminated with thousands of munition debris and UXO. Since 2008, Isla has worked under NaMP to clean up the mess that was left behind. Under NaM, the tribes worked with the Army Corps of Engineers to report and clean up munition debris, restore the land, and make it safe for its residents.
▶ 2:24:45In the case of Isla, for its cattle grazers, however, in the past year, this already underfunded program has been decimated by budget cuts and inadequate staffing. Specifically, the Native American Management System for Environmental Impacts, which is part or NAMI, uh is a website that allows tribes and the public to access, report, share maps of clean and contaminated areas and report information with the army related to the munition debris that has been taken down now for over a year.
▶ 2:25:16He sled shared with me that last year a doge review of the DoD resulted in terminating that contract with the company that manages the NASA website. You know, I'm not sure if cleaning UXO on tribal lands was considered a DEI initiative by Doge, but it certainly is not. Uh management of the site was then assigned to DoD employees who then quit or were reassigned before a new contractor was brought on.
▶ 2:25:41And yet today, the system is completely Secretary Driscoll, can you share why the department allowed the Namsay site to completely collapse?
▶ 2:25:52Congressman, um just just as an army principle and value to speak very broadly. Um we value the communities where we have trained uh today and in the past and we commit to working with those communities to um repair any harm that we caused to the land uh from our training. And so, but specifically to your question, I'll have to follow up with your office. Well, I appreciate that and this does deserve special attention uh because this isn't just a not just a problem for Isla PBLO, but other tribal nations that have been good partners to the Department of Defense over years.
▶ 2:26:22Um, Secretary, will you or someone from your department commit to contacting tribal leaders at Isleta PBLO to resolve this issue because they haven't been able to report or get back their old information from this website for over a year now.
▶ 2:26:35Um, we absolutely commit to following up with your office to get those details.
▶ 2:26:38Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that. Um, you know, for months, NLM tribes have been unable to notify the department of new locations that may have munition debris or unexploled ordinance. Uh, input required for grant reporting or access valuable information, including their own documents for investigation and reports. Um, now let me tell you about this beautiful, beautiful land on uh tribal property.
▶ 2:27:01Uh it is now home to a cattle grazing operation uh that is marred by munition that when it rains our monsoon seasons in New Mexico. Uh it uncovers hundreds in some cases thousands of unexloded ordinance. Um so I'm not sure it's safe for the cows, certainly not safe for people. Uh they have one archaeologist on site that was on contract who they had to terminate because they could not have a staffer for the department of defense managing the NM uh program to approve their requests as they have in the past.
▶ 2:27:31U so it wasn't a lack of funds but it was a lack of staff uh folks that were terminated or reassigned as a result of the DOA audit. Um I don't think that's a good way to treat our partners and so I urge you to please uh pay attention to this issue. Uh obviously there are safety concerns uh but more than anything our tribal nations are sovereign nations and they deserve to have that government-togovernment relationship. So I look forward to working with you to see that this system is restored uh ensure that the partnership with the tribes and the department are restored
▶ 2:28:00and we commit to following up quickly.
▶ 2:28:02Thank you so much secretary.
▶ 2:28:04Gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes a gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Mesmer.
▶ 2:28:08Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Secretary Driscoll, you have stated publicly that the Humvey will have relevance to the uh Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard going well into the future. Uh it would help this committee support that statement if the Army would provide an analysis and plan for light tactical vehicles. Are you committed to providing such a plan?
▶ 2:28:31Thank you. Uh General Leniv, uh do you see a need in in the Army's future for light a light tactical vehicle fleet and with with both the Humvey and the JLTV? Yes, sir. That the Humvee is going to be around for for a long time. It served us great for 41 plus years, sir. Um and so we're going to have a mix of Humvees, ISVS, and and hopefully the HSV. Okay. Thank you, Secretary Driscoll.
▶ 2:28:54Both the Marines and the Air Force plan to continue procurement of JLT JLTVs, highlighting the importance of maintaining the JLTV joint program office. Uh does the Army remain committed to maintaining that that office in house? Uh we we'd be happy to.
▶ 2:29:10Thank you. As co-chair of the hypersonics caucus, Secretary Driscoll, I want to congratulate the Army for being the first to service a field and and field a hypersonic weapon system, the Dark Eagle. Uh as many of the services are looking to the next generation of scalable hypersonic weapons. What is the Army doing to create a mass-produced lowercost hypersonic weapon system?
▶ 2:29:31Yeah, sure. We're we're uh we're looking across the board at at at who can produce uh our weapon systems uh at scale and cheaper. Lowcost munitions and high you know cost munitions are going to be part of the magazine depth. The goal is to get all the cost down and it produced at scale. So we don't you know have any issues uh in that depth over.
▶ 2:29:55Thank you. It's been reported that the dark eagle is being considered for deployment under under Sentcom's command. Uh, Secretary Driscoll, what unique capabilities does dark eco bring to that region?
▶ 2:30:06Um, um, we we can't um share that in this setting, but be happy to discuss in a more close setting.
▶ 2:30:11Perfect. Thank you, sir. Uh, Secretary Discoll in my district. Uh, it contains crane army ammunition activity, which currently holds about 25% of the DoD's conventional munition munitions. So, I'm focused on the future of the organic industrial base and uh what we can do to guarantee the success in of their mission. Uh, how has the army used extended use land leases to to better make better use of army land?
▶ 2:30:35Um, I love this question, Congressman. Thank you for asking it. So, um, one of the things we, the Army, have not done as well as we should have over the years is take advantage of the assets that the American taxpayer and this committee has given us. And one of the ways we are moving forward quickly on that is enhanced use leases. And so um the first two instances of that is our two data centers where because we are letting these um companies use our land. We're going to get offtake in data in compute which will be incredibly powerful for us.
▶ 2:31:02But we've also asked industry to submit ideas that they have for all of our army lands. We had 200 submissions about 120 are viable. We're currently working with Secretary Bess and the Department of Treasury and Russ Vote at OM. They've given us full-time um people to help us go through these and we hope to announce 20 project by the end of the
▶ 2:31:20Excellent. That's uh great to hear. I want to make sure we're bringing these innovative solutions not just to our cover depots but to all corners of the OIB. Um how is the Army working to bring more of the OIB workload outside of the cover covered depot list?
▶ 2:31:36Sir, we're looking at ways to take uh I'll give you one example. We have a operational readiness team that goes out to units uh and and helps repair the equipment on site that comes out of our our depot uh you know workforce there. And I I just want to apologize. I I think I operated like a a radio here said over to you, you know, a couple minutes ago. So, no worries.
▶ 2:32:00Um, Secretary Driscoll, can you tell the committee what the Army Corps of Engineers is doing differently under your leadership to speed up projects and change how the bureaucracy has been managing projects for decades?
▶ 2:32:10Um, the the Army Corps uh under our assistant secretary Adam Tel has done a 50 and 60-year change. Um, the core had lost its way in a lot of ways, not because the talent there isn't amazing and not because the soldiers that we um have in the core are some of our country's best leaders, but because we had put too much paperwork burden on them. And so the core has gone through a massive transformation project to start to focus much more on actually delivering projects to the communities where they exist.
▶ 2:32:38And one of the things they're working on now that I'm most excited about is um that there's this concept of waters of the United States that you have to do for nearly every project in our country. And we were getting in the way of builders building things to employ our fellow Americans. And the core has been moving quickly to cut down from 6 months on average to under 30 days. And those delays add delay add to the cost. So thank you for that. I yield back.
▶ 2:33:01Gentleman yields back. Chair not recognizes Mr. Cisneros of California.
▶ 2:33:05Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for our witnesses for being here today. Um, General, I introduced Duty Status Reform Act with Rep. Bergman this year because we both recognize that the National Guard and Reserve are no longer just a backup. They are fully integrated into our frontline units. However, our commanders are currently forced to navigate a maze of nearly 30 duty statuses, each requiring separate administrative on-ramps that create a lag in force generation.
▶ 2:33:32Can you speak to the specific readiness assistance this reform would provide the Army and how consolidating these authorities from from nearly 30 down to four would eliminate the bureaucratic friction that currently stalls our ability to rapidly deploy a fully integrated force? uh as well as keeping them fully deployed. Um could you speak on that please?
▶ 2:33:53Sir, anytime you reduce bureaucratic uh you know uh efforts, you know, above our our soldiers is a is a as a blow for for freedom. Um that's what we've been trying to do is reduce bureaucracy across the board to free up our soldiers when they deploy, when they train, uh you know, across the entire spectrum.
▶ 2:34:15All right. Thank you for that. And congressman, I was just going to say on our side what we are trying to do because our guard soldiers in our reserve when we activate them, they they they are they they oftent times are experts in something completely unrelated to their soldier task which adds a lot of value to us. But that also means they have unique constraints on their family setup and we have got to do better. And so what we're trying to do on the business system sides is we are trying to consolidate and collapse down the number of systems they have to interact with so we can do a better job on our side.
▶ 2:34:43Right. We hope to have your support from both of you on this uh legislation as it moves forward. Uh Secretary Jisco, um you've been asked about or General George was brought up earlier today, but I want to ask you about um Major General Green, Chief of Chaplain. Uh what was the justification given to you for him being relieved?
▶ 2:35:03Uh Congressman, I I won't talk about private conversations that I've had with my boss.
▶ 2:35:08Well, I I worry about that. Um because I think you know one of the things that uh Major General Green was working on right was uh focused on mental health and right uh the secretary said our our chaplain need to be our our spiritual leaders and I of course we want them to do that's why they're here but at times they need to help our our service members around mental health issues too right sometimes a behavioral health specialist isn't there and they need somebody to talk to and often you know through my time in the Navy
▶ 2:35:38in the military and and I'm sure through all of your career there, General, uh the chaplain has been there. It's been that shoulder that that our service members can go to and relieve and get things off their chest. Uh and I worry that his um support of of of um trying to expand programs that that would make the chaplain more available for that uh being taken away um or him supporting that was one of the reasons that he was relieved.
▶ 2:36:07And I I hope we can kind of keep moving forward, right? And realize that the role that our chaplain play and and really not only spiritually but also mentally and that need needed to be supported in those roles and we need to keep advocating for that. Uh so with that I'll move on to my next question. Mr.
▶ 2:36:26secretary, the uh the CAP program, which was a program that was piloted and started during the first Trump uh was eliminated recently and it provided a significant BAP to help validate our our leaders, right? Um you've worked out there in the business community. I'm sure you've never ever hired anybody without talking to them physically just based on purely on their resume. Uh and the CAP program provided that, right?
▶ 2:36:52It not only put out their paperwork, their resume, their full career out there in front of the board, but it brought them in to make sure they were physically fit. We make sure they answered questions before the board. Uh but without any reason, that program was eliminated after it was just put into play not even a year ago. And and I had actually had the opportunity to go down and and observe that program and how it worked and thought it was very valuable.
▶ 2:37:18It was something when I was at the Pentagon uh that was being pushed down into the other services. Um now I would love to hear why I'm down to 30 seconds right now. I don't think we're going to have the full time. So I'm going to submit it for the record, but I would love to to to hear your uh explanation as to why that program was eliminated and what are we going to do to replace it?
▶ 2:37:40because it was a really good program that gave a good 360 look not only from their superiors, their peers as well as uh you know official for brigade and battalion commanders uh senior enlisted as to the full value of these individuals. Uh with that I yield back and I'll submit that question for the
▶ 2:38:00Thank you. We now proceed to Congressman Pat Harrian of North Carolina.
▶ 2:38:04Thank you Mr. Chairman. Uh, Secretary Driscoll, General Lane, it's great to have you all here before the committee again. Uh, sorry, Major, you as well. You don't sit at the desk, but we really know who does the work. Thank you for your service, gentlemen, and thanks for your testimony today. Uh, Mr. Secretary and in general, as you both know, I genuinely appreciate and believe in the Army's commitment to continuous transformation. Uh, I want to ensure that it doesn't just become a political slogan.
▶ 2:38:32It's got to stay something that's effective to get the army into the future fight. We've got to stay laser focused on driving very real efficiencies, rebuilding meaningful productive capacity inside the organic industrial base and ensuring that every dollar that we spend increases readiness, repairability, and battlefield relevance. It cannot be held up by a bureaucratic or a sustainment drag.
▶ 2:38:58I want to ask you, Secretary Driscoll, a question about right to repair because your testimony specifically identifies right to repair as critical to reducing maintenance delays and costs. And the committee memo notes that proprietary technical data and outdated are directly harming mission capable rates across Army ground fleets.
▶ 2:39:20Just to give you an example, we've gone from,285 depot overhauls in fiscal year 2015 to just 12 in fiscal year 24. While readiness continues to decline, what specific contractual or statutory changes does the Army need from Congress to guarantee that our depots and maintainers actually have the technical data, software access, and repair rights necessary to restore readiness at scale, especially for systems that taxpayers
▶ 2:39:50have already paid to develop.
▶ 2:39:53Congressman, um this is a topic that I think transcends party line. This transcends um generational service times. I think nearly everyone I've talked to who has served feels deeply passionate that the United States Army should have done this a long time ago, but now is the time to remedy it. We must have the technical data for every single thing that we buy. And the reason is not just if we're in the Indoacific and 6,000 mi from home and something goes down, we have to be able to take advantage of the local economy and things like advanced manufacturing to get it back up.
▶ 2:40:23But there are instances where um we we've kind of famously found a number of these, but one of the more egregious is we had a knob on a Blackhawk uh radio that would break four times a month on average for the last 20 years, and it will ground the entire helicopter. And this knob costs us about $68 to 3D print. But when we go to the actual provider of this knob, they won't sell us the knob.
▶ 2:40:45So instead, for the last 20 years, four times per month, we have paid $40,000 to replace a system that could be fixed with a simple one-hour 3D printed $6 knob. And the reason we sit here and the reason we have so many hard conversations about these existing platforms is we can't go get the IP rights to it and we are stuck oftent times.
▶ 2:41:06And the reason we find the ISV and the Flora and all of that we have recently negotiated for to be so powerful is in every instance we have the intellectual property and this will never happen again. And so we need your help to go get all of that IP.
▶ 2:41:21Hey, thank you for that answer and also thank you for that vignette too. I mean that that makes me angry and I think it makes American taxpayers angry that our services are held hostage to certain contractors that are just bilking the government while making it impossible for us to actually be ready to fight with the equipment that we've already purchased. That doesn't make any sense to me and I know it doesn't make sense to you. And just with the short time that we have left, you talked about the Indoacific, you talked about far away places.
▶ 2:41:48If we don't get right to repair this year through the National Defense Authorization Act, can you talk us through what type of practical impact that will have in those far away places if we fail in our mission on right to repair this year?
▶ 2:42:04Sure. the the key to to uh getting through contested logistics to have is to have a distributed uh system uh small footprints spread out across uh the Pacific with the ability to have advanced manufacturing uh there and the ability for us to print our parts uh at the edge of where we're going to need them. It's critical.
▶ 2:42:29Thank you very much. And I I think I'm going to yield my time back.
▶ 2:42:32Thank you very much, Congressman Heragan. We now proceed to Congressman Sorenson of Illinois.
▶ 2:42:37Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Secretary Driscoll, General Eve, uh, thank you both for being here, your service to our nation. Um, thanks to both of you for the conversations that we have had recently, as well as Mr. Driscoll for being with me at the Rock Island Arsenal last year. Uh, General, I'll make sure that the weather is sunny uh, when you're able to to make it to Rock Island Arsenal soon. Um, now on to business. As I've talked to both of you, uh the Army Command Match program um was rolled out absolutely horribly.
▶ 2:43:07And that's not just my opinion. That is the opinion of the the people I talked to who are affected. Um these are champions who've been victim to a haphazard process causing immense anxiety and leaving unanswered questions. You know, most people, I would say most Americans spend more than five days to shop for an appliance, let this circumstance where people are given five days to decide whether to up and move your family across the country. Uh Mr.
▶ 2:43:37Secretary, thank you for being so forthcoming in Tuesday's Senate Armed Services hearing with Senator Duckworth. I'm so glad that you had mentioned your willingness to give more grace and more time, and that is appreciated for my constituents. Mr. Mr. Secretary, you said that you would notify her and Sask about major personnel changes at Rock Island. Do I have your word that you'll communicate with me in that same regard?
▶ 2:44:00Yes. Thank you. And thank you for believing in Rock Island uh as the senator and I do. Um on that note, could you tell us today that people are safe from any further job cuts at Rock Island? I want to assure that these patriots that their hard work and their determination will not be ignored. Um, Congressman, we are still um, as I [clears throat] said earlier, for about 30 years, we had not done the right things as an army and gotten our hands around who are the people we have working for us and what were the jobs that our commanders actually needed. That initial exercise is complete.
▶ 2:44:31Um, and so, but but I would disclaim that we are constantly trying to look at where can we save the taxpayer dollars, how can we reallocate the gift that you give us to to make our war fighters even more lethal. And so we will continue to look, but my commitment is we will work with your office and the senator's office um if we take another look.
▶ 2:44:51And we would love to welcome new champions um to the Rock Island Arsenal. JMTC at Rock Island is home to the Army's only working foundry serving as a vital one-stop shop for manufacturing. Um I hope that we can keep that metal hot. uh to both of you, what opportunities do you both see for expanding public private partnerships, especially with castings and forgings so the army can leverage our industrial experts to help relieve that supply chain bottleneck and meet long-term manufacturing goals.
▶ 2:45:18Um, Congressman, we've underinvested in our defense industrial base. Um, when we did the tour with you and some of your colleagues, I mean, you can look around and a lot of the equipment that is being used is is just not sufficient for the threat that is currently uh what our country could face. And so we are actively working together with our soldiers at all of our arsenals to put together plans.
▶ 2:45:37But back to what I had referenced earlier, we have 200 submissions from some of the top companies across our country who want to come onto these bases, who want to come onto Rock Island, who want to partner with our civilians and our soldiers to help us build the things that we need. And so we are really optimistic in the next four to eight weeks we will be able to announce a lot of partnerships to get in the best of American manufacturing to get in the best talent and very critically and crucially to use some of their dollars in the private sector to help upgrade our arsenals and depots.
▶ 2:46:06I love hearing that. General.
▶ 2:46:08Yes sir. We we both recognize the critical importance that the industrial base provides for us all 23 of our our depots across the country. Um, and I I I think, you know, when you you take a look at the plan that that we we've embarked on uh in order to invest in this, it it shows the commitment um to upgrading each one of these these uh locations so they can support the war fighter for what we know we're going to
▶ 2:46:38Um I want to go back to the Rock Island Arsenal, 900 acre rock in the middle of the Mississippi River. It's also where this our greatest our nation's greatest river makes the the biggest change in elevation um in its entire course. Um it's a unique place where we use hydroelectric power. I'm excited that work has begun on infrastructure upgrades uh because I believe that uninterruptible power is necessary and it's necessary for national security.
▶ 2:47:04Can I have your word that we continue to build Rock Island's power capacity so that we never have to pick and choose what work can get done uh so that we can start the job and finish the job. Right.
▶ 2:47:15Congressman, this is a topic for um all of our bases, our arsenals, and our depots. We were I was just down at Fort Bragg yesterday and we're talking about redundant energy and um the energy needs for modern warfare, not just to create the tools of warfare, but to sustain them in the actual fight are things that we are looking at every single day and we're happy to stay in touch with your
▶ 2:47:33Great. Thank you gentlemen for your time and I yield back.
▶ 2:47:38Thank you Congressman. Now we lead to Congressman Schmidt of Kansas.
▶ 2:47:43Thank you Mr. Chairman and General Mr. Secretary. Thank you for being with us again today. We appreciate it. Appreciate the good working partnership we've been able to forge on a lot of matters important to our country. So thank you Mr. Secretary. Let me uh start with a question for you. Thank you for coming to Fort Riley in the First Infantry Division recently. It was an honor to host you out there and spend a little bit of time with you and your team and uh with the men and women in America's fighting force on the ground. Uh we had a handful of topics that very much appreciated your reaction to on the ground. Just wanted to explore a couple of them today.
▶ 2:48:11Uh I know we had a chance to visit on the a chilly day. Uh the uh the loading facility, the derf um and uh it is it is very dark and it is very muddy when they're loading those track vehicles. Sometimes that can be fixed with a relatively small investment that frankly may pay itself back in a couple of deployments if you don't have to pay the the fines to the shippers and to the railroads and to the Europeans when stuff gets over their muddy. Um, and I know uh at least my impression was that you certainly agreed with that and that this is this is going to happen at some point.
▶ 2:48:40I would like to help the army pull it forward as far as we can. Is that something that you can assure us will be in the 28th submission? Um we will definitely follow up with your office uh senator but we were with um down at brag yesterday department of transportation um and there are some grants for exactly like what we are talking about and so we as an army are currently putting together a plan to see if we can go after a different pot of cash to be able to move even quicker in this budget cycle.
▶ 2:49:03Thank you Mr. Secretary and whatever we can do to help we will do. If it means standing on the street corner and and uh talking to passers by we'd really like to get that done. I thank you for that. Another item we discussed while out there, um, you know, they've made very creative use, uh, for Riley of, uh, intergovernmental support agreements, exas with local school districts. Uh, it's a way of moving rapidly and more cost-effectively on certain projects, especially renovations. Uh, I wondered if you had any thoughts on how we might uh, well, whether that's a good idea.
▶ 2:49:32I think it is, and if so, any ways we might encourage or enable more usage of that where you have willing participants and it makes sense. Um that that was one of the most powerful features of that visit. Um and I've continued to tell it everywhere we went two days ago down in North Carolina. We were with the University of North Carolina uh school system just talking about exactly how effective and efficient it was for the American taxpayer. And so we are trying to expand that to other states actively. Um and I'm incredibly grateful for you uh highlighting it on the visit.
▶ 2:50:02Well, thank you. Appreciate it very much. And you mentioned the core earlier. Thank you for your work to reform some outdated processes. good men and women trying to do their jobs with a bureaucracy on top of them and that's a terrific thing. Uh also alternate methods like this uh may be good. So if we can if we can help uh not just spread the word but improve the tool we would love to uh to do that. U sir I also represent Fort Levvenworth. We haven't had a chance to have either of you out there yet but I would extend the invitation. At least I don't think you've been there since you've been in this role general.
▶ 2:50:30Um we would well I well we have not been there together then. That raised a whole different set of questions sir. No, I'm kidding you. But uh we always love to have both of you and Mr. Secretary, we'd love to have you out there as well. uh you know those two posts obviously play very different roles in our United States Army and uh Fort Levvenworth is such a critical role uh in the the intellectual side of the army and uh as as the transformation is underway and the thinking it through and the evolution of it uh we just want to be sure that uh that the leadership there is fully engaged not just with
▶ 2:51:00those of you who wear the uniform here but with the civilian team as well because I think they have some tremendous contributions they can help make and uh not sure I'll have a particular ask but I'll just leave the invitation on the table. Mr. Secretary, we'd love to have you back in Kansas for I would also say on that, you know, one of the things that maybe we can explore, you know, we train, I say we, they train majors at Fort Levvenworth and do an excellent job of it. Um, you have the sergeant major behind you and I think the folks down south do a great job in that as well and it's a very good partnership.
▶ 2:51:31I'm just wondering, um, are we thinking through the the training methods and timelines for for everybody, but that would include the sergeant majors? um uh you know there may be ways to do things more quickly. I think other services uh may move their equivalent folks along a little faster and and are those things that are part of the the thinking through of how we transform the
▶ 2:51:52Sure. We're always looking at uh different ways to to uh move non-commission officers and officers through our education system. there's efficiency and there's also the effectiveness of of having uh you know the some of the cohorts come through and and spend a longer a longer time together because there's a there's a relationship that you can't uh uh building that you don't want to speed up and and throw away over time.
▶ 2:52:19We we we just went out together uh and did the the pre-command courses with battalion commanders, SAR majors, brigade commanders and SAR majors and the division command course and the linkages between those two. Um you know it was we we condensed the course and now we're taking a look at do we need to add maybe another week back into it just based off of the integration of those two.
▶ 2:52:43you you just can't you can't uh throw away that secret sauce of of what uh those courses actually provide for our force across the across the board. I know he's sitting in the back, but Star Major, I don't know if you want to add anything to that.
▶ 2:52:56Agree completely. [laughter]
▶ 2:52:59Thank you. My time is up. We thank you both in general. We uh are grateful and and certainly trust your judgment on
▶ 2:53:04Thank you, Congressman Schmidt. We now proceed to Congresswoman Goodlander of New Hampshire.
▶ 2:53:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Secretary General for being here today, for your service to our country. You are here today to make the case for the Department of the Army, the Department of the Army's fiscal year 2027 budget request. It's a historic budget request in a number of respects, um, including the topline number, $252.8 Um, I appreciate the graphics that the Army created for us, um, to really see a breakdown of this request.
▶ 2:53:39And one of the things that stands out as I look at your graph here, Army budget trends over time, a big chunk of this request, 37.7 billion dollar are designated mandatory. Am I right that this is money you expect to be appropriated through the reconciliation process?
▶ 2:54:00Correct, Congresswoman.
▶ 2:54:01So, Mr. Secretary, you testified at the outset that you want this to be a bipartisan budget. I share that goal. The reconciliation process is a fundamentally partisan process. Um, and you have budgeted for a really important uh set of investments in critical munitions. This is the biggest chunk of this portion of reconciliation funding that you're seeking is going towards critical munitions.
▶ 2:54:29Uh this may have been a decision out of your lane, but my question is what is your plan uh to make up for the shortfall if you do not actually get what you need through this partisan reconciliation process?
▶ 2:54:43Congresswoman, um our commitment is to meet with every member who it would be helpful. We we want that process to also be bipartisan. We think that what is in the army's mandatory request are the types of things that have bipartisan support. Um, and so the first bit is we hope it doesn't happen. The second one is the United States Army for 250 years has done with what we receive. We are trying to be good custodians and cut our costs.
▶ 2:55:07And so I I appreciate a lot of your colleagues who are frustrated when we go cut two billion in civilian spending every year. But that's 10 billion we save over the FUP to invest in our own innovation. And so um, we will make do with what we get.
▶ 2:55:22Thank you. I want to ask you about the audit and are you on track to pass a clean audit this fiscal year?
▶ 2:55:29Um his if I was if you're asking me to make a guess based off history I would say no. Um if you were asking me do I think we will be ready by the statutoily designated time in 2028. I think we are moving in that direction.
▶ 2:55:41Good. Well I general
▶ 2:55:44yeah I concur secretary. I think u with some of the changes uh especially the company uh that was helping us do it. I think we're off on a on a right direction and we're linked in with the OSW process uh uh to get us across. I concur with his with his assessment.
▶ 2:56:00Look, it is so critical for public trust and it is so critical for us in making the case and doing our jobs. You're asking for a historic budget. No small business that I represent would ever be able to manage failing chronically basic audits year after year and continuing to ask for record spending. So I I look forward to working with you and your teams on this.
▶ 2:56:26I want to thank you for your leadership on right to repair and I'm I'm you see that this is a bipartisan issue uh on this committee. You saw the same thing on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Mr. Secretary, you pointed to one of the examples that looms large in my mind. Uh a tiny knob on a Blackhawk helicopter that would cost $15 for the army to produce with a 3D printer. $47,000. It's it's outrageous and it's undermining our readiness.
▶ 2:56:53And I want to ask for your commitment to support our bipartisan biccameal warrior right to repair act in this year's National Defense Authorization Act.
▶ 2:57:03Unequivocally, yes.
▶ 2:57:05Yes, ma'am. Thank you. I appreciate that. Um, you you both testified and I appreciate it that the people of the United States Army are your greatest asset. Uh, that includes the thousands of women who are serving today in the United States Army.
▶ 2:57:22Another important piece of legislation that we're working on here on the committee uh is the Warrior Act, which does something that we shouldn't have to do, but clarifies uh that genderneutral standards for occupations in the military uh should prevail that no one should be excluded on the basis of their gender. If you can meet the standard, if you can do the job, then you should get to do the job. Do you agree with this basic principle?
▶ 2:57:50Yes. unequivocally.
▶ 2:57:52I agree with that, ma'am. And I'm have a personal side of this, too. You My daughter's in the army. Um she uh just graduated last night um with her master's degree and she's going up to teach at West Point. Um she agrees with uh high standards uh you know, and and general neutral standards.
▶ 2:58:15Well, I appreciate that and I thank you again both for your service. Thank you, Congresswoman, for the bipartisanship and indeed a highlight today. Congratulations, General, to your family, on your daughter's graduation.
▶ 2:58:28Thank you, sir. She's much, much smarter than me.
▶ 2:58:31Well, hey, but hey, hey, this really sets up another great member of Congress, Congressman Crank, all the way from Colorado.
▶ 2:58:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Uh, Secretary D, and thank you both for for being here and for your service to our country. Secretary Driscoll, last year the sheriff in my county reached out to my office with alarm uh as the Army's decision to deactivate the 11th Expeditionary Combat Aviation Brigade at Fort Carson.
▶ 2:58:58Um in addition to ensuring uh the Army has the ability to surge capabilities and maintain expertise in its ranks, the 11th ECAB is an essential tool that supports search and rescue missions along Colorado's front range. And as Mr.
▶ 2:59:13Latrell said earlier um in last year's NDAA, we secured language to delay the deactivation until the Army presented a plan detailing how they were going to maintain the expert pilots and support crews for future needs and backfill the emergency response capabilities my community relies on. Unfortunately, the responses we received were lackluster and left more questions than answers.
▶ 2:59:39And in response, Congressman Latrell Trion and I sent a letter last month seeking more assurances that the Army has a plan that makes sense that won't leave our communities at risk. With markup for this year's NDAA rapidly approaching, it is imperative that we receive an answer to our letter ASAP. When can we expect a response? And can I count on you to continue working with the members of this committee to find a way forward that meets the army's needs as well as our districts?
▶ 3:00:09Sir, uh, you know, as response earlier to uh, Congressman LRO, we will both follow up uh, with with all offices to ensure that we meet that the timeline uh, that you uh, you alluded to earlier. So, yes.
▶ 3:00:25Well, and thank you. Uh, I appreciate that, Mr. Secretary. This week, Fort Carson is hosting, and you alluded to this, you alluded to what's going on in Colorado. Fort Carson is hosting the Army's right to integrate hackathon, where major defense primes worked alongside non-traditional firms to break down the siloed nature of our weapon systems in a combat environment where a lag in data sharing translates directly to casualties.
▶ 3:00:54Uh, any lack of interoperability is a strategic liability. Can you provide your perspective on how we can break down these software silos and how Fort Carson's leadership on nextgen command and control is avoiding these pitfalls?
▶ 3:01:08Uh the leaders at Fort Carson have been a beacon for our army transformation and um I I very sincerely want to praise um again just the the primes and the other large defense actors who moved I think I called them about two and a half weeks ago and they all committed immediately to sending participants. They've sent thousands of pieces of equipment and they are helping us get after this because this is the right thing for the American soldier. Um, and they are moving at a speed that I would humbly say no other nation could pull this off at this scale.
▶ 3:01:38This is what makes the army so special and this is what makes our defense industrial base so special is that when we see a problem and we know we have to get after it, um, we can just move heaven and earth to do it. Um, and I'm incredibly grateful to your state and that base for hosting.
▶ 3:01:52Great. Um, have you been down, Mr. secretary to Pinion Canyon down.
▶ 3:01:57I I don't believe I have.
▶ 3:01:58Okay. Would love to have you you come down. It's of course not contiguous to Fort Carson, but it's associated training facility. Do full brigade size maneuver uh there. Um we had a a state environmental agency that was trying to hassle the army, I would say, about um environmental issues there. Um I've Carson was acquired over 50 years ago. They do a great job of environmental stewardship.
▶ 3:02:26In fact, I'd argue that some of the assets that they have, their old homesteads and things. The Army does an amazing job of protecting those assets and still doing training around them. If there's an old homestead, they put cyber stakes around it and they say that's a minefield. We don't go there. Um, if that same facility would be on, say, uh, public land or National Forest Service land, it would probably rummage through. But the army's done an amazing and incredible job of uh of preserving that environmentally.
▶ 3:02:56Um while we're trying to work with uh states and and uh you know make sure that we preserve these historic sites, I mean we can't impinge training or stop training to preserve these things. We can do both things. Any thoughts on that? Do you have this issue pop up in other states as well? Um, Congressman, the vast majority of communities where our soldiers exist and the vast majority of states that host our bases are incredible partners.
▶ 3:03:24There are absolutely times where there is tension between what a local community would prefer and what we think we need to do for national security. And I would say in the vast majority of instances, we end up in a place where our soldiers get to continue to train how they need to to fight and win our nation's wars.
▶ 3:03:38Great. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
▶ 3:03:40Thank you, Congressman Crank. And we now proceed to Congresswoman Elrift of Maryland. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Secretary General, for being here. Mr. Secretary, thank you for helping us solve the Fortme gate guard issue a few months ago. They now have every ability to hire life and safety folks to keep that critical base secure. So, I want to thank you and your team for that. I also want to align my uh position with a number of folks here, including supporting UAR incredibly important across this country to have that independent research done.
▶ 3:04:08Um the right to repair, thank you for for leading on this. Uh, I also want to reiterate the comments you heard here about our our forces in in Poland. It feels a little bit like Groundhog's Day. We just went through this in Romania this time last year. So, I just want to align myself with that. I do appreciate, Mr. Secretary, you you seem like you are a man who wants to tackle the hard issues headon and not avoid them. And I really appreciate that. You said in general, you both have said many times, you want to cut the bureaucracy to get soldiers what they need.
▶ 3:04:36So I'm going to start with what feels like a small issue but it's actually important really in Maryland and a lot of the labs and research we do at Aberdine Dietrich me uh you are probably familiar with the fact that our our min uh threshold is at 9 million right now. Now it was raised in FY23 for lab revitalization uh but its purchasing power over the last few years obviously has gone down significantly. This committee on a bipartisan basis attempted to raise it from 9 to 12 million last year. We had a classic House Senate issue.
▶ 3:05:06I just want to get your feedback on getting our soldiers what they need starts in those labs and we can't get them what they need if we have the bureaucracy holding up things like repairing leaky roofs and other things that are important to that
▶ 3:05:21Um we will the to the specific remark, Congresswoman, I'll take a look and follow back up with your office quickly to your broader point. Um, one of the places we are not doing a good job as a United States Army is with our research and our development. We we spend between five and seven billion dollars some year just as an army. And my understanding is the entire secretary like the entire Pentagon collects between like 10 and 15 million in royalties. And from that research that has been going on for a very long time.
▶ 3:05:49And so one of the things that the United States Army is trying to do is stand up an intellectual property office almost similar to how a research university would do it. And what we think this will allow us to do is for all of the money that you give us on behalf of the taxpayers to invest in weapons of war uh tools for our soldiers, we should be able to collect uh returns for those taxpayers to help with things like what you're describing.
▶ 3:06:12And some really cool research especially around batteries which could not be more important in contested environments right now happening in Aberdine and we just need to kickstart that because it has implications for civilian life as well. So thank you for focusing on that. I want to return to the issue of Poland and the the BCT deployment that was was pulled back. I want to be clear here. Was there a force posture review conducted prior to this decision being made? Appreciating it wasn't your decision, but I want to understand the whole context of Yukon.
▶ 3:06:40Yeah. So, two-part answer to that, ma'am. One, there's always a continuous posture review uh going on. I I think um in in reference to this I I think that's a a question with with General Grinkovich uh on his internal posture review, his consultation with the with the secretary and the joint chiefs on on the way forward.
▶ 3:07:04I was part of that consultation with him of going back and forth on uh you know advice on on force structure uh and all that. ultimately uh you know the the decision was made again title 10 we're gonna we're gonna uh get forces in and get forces out uh as
▶ 3:07:23I just I think you heard on both sides a bipartisan concern of the signal that that sends to Russia. So staying on this, it's our understanding or at least it's been reporting that part of that decision was based on the 1.4 billion shortfall you all have from DHS. And Mr. Secretary, you said you expect a return of that money from DHS to DoD or I'm sorry to Army in the next 1 to two weeks.
▶ 3:07:48Are going to receive the full 1.4 billion or is it some type of payment plan we're talking about? Can you give us committee some some light?
▶ 3:07:56Uh, Congresswoman, I can follow up with your office on the specifics. What I can say is Secretary Mullen and his team have have been incredibly receptive and active and um he is relatively new to the seat, but he's been working quickly to help us. I I think if it is truly forcing these uh I wouldn't say reckless, but I think not sustainable or helpful decisions in other theaters, this shortfall, we we need to have a right-hand conversation about getting that money to you as quickly as possible. And you heard the bipartisan nature of of that concern.
▶ 3:08:26Um if you could please follow up with us committee uh almost every day until you get that 1.4 billion. I know we' we'd all be very interested in that. Thank you for your time here and Mr. Chair, yield back.
▶ 3:08:36Thank you uh Congresswoman. bipartisan for Poland and indeed I'm really grateful we now have Congressman Jim Moland from the very beautiful and strategic territory of Guam.
▶ 3:08:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome. The army's at had a of course a great role uh for the liberation of Guam. Then this July 21st will be the 82nd liberation of Guam. Uh when the Army 77th Infantry Division uh came along with our Marine Corps uh and defeated the Imperial Army uh that was there for about three years during World War II.
▶ 3:09:16And now the Army's coming back even even stronger with our missile defense agency. And it's uh it's well welcomed. It's for the defense of the nation. It's for the defense of the people of Guam. citizens there, the most western soil of the United States.
▶ 3:09:33Uh there is we play a big role as the hub and in the defense for Indopaccom area the footprint when the buildup started was uh I believe there was an agreement where that is going to be remain in the footprint and as we build out the missile defense areas of of course we're going to need some other things going on in this budget. Army is seeking 29 million to acquire land in Guam.
▶ 3:09:58We've been reaching out asking which land, how much land, and haven't received an answer. Are you able to provide that answer to me, please?
▶ 3:10:07Um, we I don't know the specifics right now, Congressman, but I we will follow up with your office quickly.
▶ 3:10:12Yeah. So it's it's very concerning on the of course land is precious on Guam as well and and wanting the community wanting to understand and and look at that and the government wanting to be able to understand and of course we had to provide infrastructure services as well. So wanting to work with you uh to do that uh and then to answer the questions of the people of Guam uh where and how is this and reduce any kind of tension. So that will be helpful. I appreciate that sir. Thank you.
▶ 3:10:42In addition to uh this, we also are very patriotic on the islands and uh uh we have so many proud members who join the army as myself. I think that changed my life. I was able to go to jump school, too. And from an average grade student to all of a sudden I, you know, you can do what the army tells you to do, you can do excellent in school. And that's very helpful for me. So, I'm I'm proud to be a member of the armed forces. And I wish more people could could join and understand how important it is. uh our nation is going to be 250 years here pretty soon.
▶ 3:11:13So it's great. We we should continue to serve. We would have double the recruiting capabilities as I spoke to my recruiters uh for all branches on Guam, but we don't have a MEP center. Uh we share this with the Army National Guard. Uh when we when it's scheduled, sometimes it has to fall off the scheduling plan because something the guard is doing with their rooms. Uh likewise uh for the AB ABFAP uh testing uh we don't have anything.
▶ 3:11:40We're we're um they're borrowing basically but our recruiters can basically double uh and and we reduce a lot of wait time and and losing recruits because oh you got to come back next month and then they changed their mind. Is there any way that we can get uh something more permanent? Can we look into this to get something permanent uh to allow our our our recruiters to do the best they can?
▶ 3:12:06Um we will connect with the recruiting team and follow back up with your office quickly, Congressman.
▶ 3:12:11Okay. Appreciate it. And and finally, uh Secretary, we we met in uh after my meeting with uh Secretary Head Staff uh when he one of his first trips to Guam. Uh so it's been many years. Well, actually, there has never been a Medal of Honor winner uh or I'm sorry, winner uh recipient of uh the Medal of Honor from from Guam.
▶ 3:12:34Uh but yet, we have many who uh would qualify and we've been asking for decades uh to relook at their submitted uh documents and I've resubmitted also and we had an opportunity to talk. Uh there was Joseph Paris, Martin Mclo, John Bloss um and so there's still no answer. I I appreciate a followup on that if we can continue to bring this up.
▶ 3:12:58It it will uh it's very important to the people of Guam who are so well dedicated uh and and really respect our nation. Uh we've been a Guam has been part of the United States since uh uh SpanishAmerican War and that's hundreds of years and we continue to send and defend our nation and we just want the recognition to be honored with something welldeserved. I I I appreciate if we can bring this once again to your
▶ 3:13:26We will follow back up. Congressman,
▶ 3:13:28I I thank you very much. And of course, I welcome you both to the 82nd Liberation Day celebration on Guam, July 21st. Uh General, have you had the time to visit? I hope.
▶ 3:13:38No, sir. We we are planning a trip uh here uh in the in the summer out to the
▶ 3:13:45Let's do that together. Secretary, have you been?
▶ 3:13:48Uh I I did get to uh go visit some soldiers there.
▶ 3:13:51Okay. Please come back.
▶ 3:13:52Of course.
▶ 3:13:53Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 3:13:55Thank you very much, Congressman Jim Moyan. And indeed, uh, Congressman Moan is really too humble to tell you the whole story, and that is that Guam has the highest percentage of membership of volunteers of any state or territory. Uh, and so the people indeed uh, of Guam remember remember the liberation. With that in mind, we now have Congressman Tran of California.
▶ 3:14:19Thank you so much, Chairman. Uh, thank you to our witnesses for being here today. As an Army Reserve veteran and the proud representative of Joint Forces Training Base Loss Alamos where I also served, let me say for the record, go Army. You know, I want to focus uh today on Los Al uh because frankly I am concerned about some of the Army's decision related to that base.
▶ 3:14:42Los Al is both a critical gateway to the Indopacific theater and an essential base for disaster relief for the entirety of Southern California. It also will be the staging area for 15,000 reserveists coming to support the LA28 Olympics. Yet, there are plans to deactivate some of our reserve units and a lack of support for military construction projects to improve the services uh that our our soldiers desperately need.
▶ 3:15:10General Eliev, when you testified before the read readiness committee subcommittee in April, I brought up the deactivation of the expeditionary combat aviation brigade brigade and the impact that it will have on my community. You committed then to have more conversations about the ECAB deactivation and I'm grateful that Rep. Latrell and Rep. Crank have already started the conversation today. uh I share many of their questions and I hope that we can all work together on this very important issue.
▶ 3:15:40Two weeks ago, Secretary Hegth described to this committee that the department is reviewing multiple uh places within the army transformation initiative to ensure that they don't create capability gaps. uh general or secretary, can you describe the specific areas of ATI that the army is reviewing and what metrics you are using to evaluate whether a capability gap would be created?
▶ 3:16:05Sure. You bring up a great one, our rotary wing um to make sure that uh again that the decisions were made which were all the on the side of angels were are still uh in the same sight picture that that we have right now. um also on on some of our uh our our ground fleet to make sure that we're going after the right mix of equipment um as we as the resources are small um in order to you know move to modernization.
▶ 3:16:35know that's a tough thing to say uh as as what we've asked for. Um but we want to be stewards of the resources and that's why I describe it really is you know the legacy systems that we have to discard the enduring system that we know we're going to have uh and then the the platforms that we know we need to go after to be more uh more you know uh lethal uh against our pacing threat.
▶ 3:17:01And Congressman, I was going to um the this is not to make light of it. These are tough decisions because you are um we are trying to forecast when we send our forces forward to some unknown place at some unknown time, what might they need? Um and so we are constantly in conversation with OSW. We are constantly in conversation with you and your colleagues to try to figure out the right mix.
▶ 3:17:23Yeah. Yeah. No, look, I I appreciate the the answer and you know, the the unit being deactivated at Los Alamos is a medical evac unit. Um, and it supports FEMA and disaster relief missions across Southern California. You know, deactivating them would create a pretty large gap in capability for the entire region uh that I represent and Southern California as a whole.
▶ 3:17:45You said you will follow up with our office, but can I count on you two to commit today to adding the ECAB units to the list of areas that are being reviewed, please?
▶ 3:17:58Yes, sir.
▶ 3:17:59Thank you. Now, I've also learned recently that the Army did not include funding for a new Army Reserve Center at Los Alfunded priority list for this year or in the future years uh defense program, which is concerning. You know, General Laniv, uh, how does the Department of Army determine, uh, what military construction projects are included on the unfunded priority list, and why might a project be left off?
▶ 3:18:26Sir, it's a it's a it's a balancing of of what resources we have, what resources we think we can uh, you know, attain uh, and and there's a list across the board. We look at uh at everything across uh the United States and and frankly where the army is has you know of our power projection platforms our uh where we're going to uh mobilize at at large numbers to try to to look at where we need to continue to invest um where we we might take a a
▶ 3:18:56lapse for a little bit in order to get uh money into a a a program and a higher priority uh for us. I appreciate that. And you know, with the uh LA Olympics coming up, um with the 15,000 reserves uh being uh placed in my district, you know, I want you to all understand I'm here as a resource and my office is uh here to help. Thank you.
▶ 3:19:22Thank you, Congresswoman. Now, Congressman Pat Bon of Texas.
▶ 3:19:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh and it's great to see you, Secretary. Uh in we live in a country where 20 years ago. Secretary Driscoll, where were you?
▶ 3:19:40Uh, sorry.
▶ 3:19:41Approximately when were you?
▶ 3:19:42Approximately Iraq.
▶ 3:19:45Before that, when were you
▶ 3:19:46basic training OCS?
▶ 3:19:49Basic training when? 2006.
▶ 3:19:51Basic training would have been September
▶ 3:19:54Okay. So, less than 20 years later, you're here as the Secretary of the Army. It's a great country to live in, isn't it? Uh, and I I want to tell you, I've been doing this for six years, uh, represent the fourth district, and we have a lot of people that come before this committee, most of most of which are impressive, not all, but I' I've never had the good fortune uh to work with somebody with as keen an intellect as you.
▶ 3:20:18And you lead by example, and you and the general genuinely care about the troops, and you're authentic, and that's what true leadership is, leading by example. And I mean, I could go on and on, but I do love the way you're doing the job with the innovation that you're bringing. Uh you're trying to make changes. You're you're trying to leave a mark for the country and you're accessible. And so, thank you. And I know that uh you sometimes we all feel like maybe a little bit too accessible, but you're transparent as well. So, bottom line, thank you for your service to the republic.
▶ 3:20:48And general, same goes for you. Uh I wanted to talk to you real quickly about one thing. I I visited Fort Jackson and looked at the I asked the general there and his command if you could if I could give you this wand one one thing, what would you want? And they talked about BCT5 and they said, you know, listen, we've got some brand new barracks and we got barracks that are really old. So I said, you know, that's why we go and visit these places, right? So you see it, you can smell it.
▶ 3:21:15And what I saw was a barracks that was built in when LBJ was president. And it's a just design flaw. You can't put enough band-aids on the damn thing. It's an art arterial wound and they need it to be bumped up and that's something we're working on. I would really like to work with you in general on getting it bumped up to they're not going to start construction till like probably 2032 and we really got to I made them a promise that I would make it one of my priorities. It happens to be in the current chairman's district.
▶ 3:21:41So that's a little bit serendipitous, but I just wanted to let you know and I mean these kids are sleeping outside in the summer outside because it's cooler outside than in the barracks that are supposed to have hvat. So uh thank you for your help on that. Um general on I want to talk to you a little bit about the administrative burden on company and battalion level uh commanders because it's been cited as having some issues and it's a drag on unit readiness and uh leader leadership development and what have you.
▶ 3:22:09As the army transforms, what specific steps is the army going to take to reduce that burden? and whether through policy changes, whether it's automation or force structure adjustments, how can you um how can we measure whether things are changing in uh freeing up time and uh training for war fighter tasks?
▶ 3:22:29Sure. Uh one, thanks for the question and thanks for your support. Um, you know, the secretary has us looking across the board of what what bureaucra bureaucracy above our leadership can we reduce in order to to give the time back to back to commanders. I'll give you an example of what we're going to do a pilot um at one of our uh our our two brigade combat teams. Um when I was a a company commander, my hammer receipt was pretty small.
▶ 3:22:58Uh it was pretty easy to do a 10% ham receipt
▶ 3:23:01uh inventory that that you you're required to do do monthly. A matter of fact, it was pretty easy. You could do it uh you know a couple you know 30 40 minutes before you released everybody on a on a Friday. We got company commanders right now, rifle company commanders,
▶ 3:23:17uh, across our force that have ham receipts, you know, 40 plus pages, which takes an incredible amount of time to just do the inventories, uh, to stay compliant. We're going to do a test to try to automate this as fast as possible. So, you could walk into a motorpool with a device and it automatically populates that your equipment is there. Um, so you're not having to go out and, you know, touch every piece of equipment. It just tells you with a, you know, a a small device.
▶ 3:23:46Companies do this.
▶ 3:23:47No, that's great. And General, I apologize. I only got 30 seconds left. I wanted to touch on recruiting and something that we'll obviously have to take for the record or follow up with your staff, but I'd love for uh your help. We're going to do some cleanup language ourselves because it's the big stuff all the way down to little stuff. The Marines have always hit the recruiting goals. We finally have for the first time in 24 and credit where credit's due. Great job. We need to continue with that.
▶ 3:24:08make sure that we have manning that we all know that's our you know greatest natural resources uh our our our troops but I'm going to work on some cleanup language as well for the reggg for an issue that you and I had discussed because I thought it was solved it's not I'll get with your folks and talk to you after but thanks very much you're doing a great job and thank you for your service God bless yield back chairman
▶ 3:24:27thank you very much Congressman Palen and indeed you are highly perceptive that Fort Jackson basic trainees can be successful as the secretary is proving and also uh we really appreciate Congressman Felon himself was a superstar fully engaged on his tour of Fort Jackson and we appreciate his visit and we're very fortunate now with Congressman Benman of Virginia.
▶ 3:24:51Thank you, Chairman Secretary Gel. Good to see you again. Uh Sergeant Major, we have uh Sergeant Major of the Army. Uh good to see you again as well. Um, Chief, we have met before, but as a proud Blue Falcon, um, second Brigade 82nd, uh, I welcome you as the, uh, new chief of staff of the army and look forward to working with you. So, let me just start um, by saying on the record, I think cancelling the rotation of the uh, brigade to Europe, it was a terrible mistake.
▶ 3:25:20It's an own goal and frankly, it's a boon to Putin. It comes on the heels of the US re reneging on its role in facilitating the P transfer. So uh we keep handing uh Putin a lifeline uh especially at a time when the Ukrainians are actually on the offensive in many places and I think it's a it's unfortunate and we need a change in policy there.
▶ 3:25:44Um, Secretary Driscoll, let me uh first say thank you for being here again and I was pleased with your statements last year at A USA where you said the following. If small arms define the 20 20th century, drones will define the 21st century. They are the perfect convergence of artificial intelligence, advanced materials, batteries, propulsion systems, sensor fusion, and much more. They will absolutely dominate warfare in the 21st century.
▶ 3:26:10Drones are reshaping how humans will inflict violence on each other at a pace never witnessed in human history. They're cheap, modular, precise, multi-roll, and scalable, and will rapidly integrate uh we will rapidly integrate them into our formations. Basically, cheap attraable ammo. But I'm a little bit concerned that your budget doesn't reflect this.
▶ 3:26:29um to achieve mass with unmanned systems would require a drone require drone industrial base signals uh that are predictable and last year the uh the US Army's small uh small unmanned aircraft systems line was 426 million this year it's 291 million um and the funding profile for future years is flat can you talk to me about that Um, Congressman,
▶ 3:27:00um, thank you for reading back my remarks to me. My my team knows my love language is hearing my own quotes. Uh, so I appreciate that. But so, um, we are actively moving out as an army and, um, we are doing a lot of things to set the stage for this drone autonomous world. Um, I won't hit operation jailbreak again, but basically freeing up our data and allowing everything to exchange information. We are all of our new systems that we are getting are open architecture so that we can plug in autonomous systems like drones beside them.
▶ 3:27:28On the counter drone side under JATA 401 we are investing enormous resources into the tools to track uh and intercept whether um in all sorts of different forms
▶ 3:27:39and I get that but the signal to industry comes from the funding and why is the the funding request down this year and flat in future years? Um we believe that that funding request is sufficient for us to have a um um a base level number of small UAS systems for our soldiers to train on. And what is important to us is having the industrial base to scale in a conflict. So if you look at what Ukraine is producing, I think it's about 5 million drones.
▶ 3:28:08Russia is about the same. We are not going to be at a place where we need to manufacture as a nation 5 million drones until we're in conflict. But we need to be able to get there really quickly. And so that's where we're investing time and
▶ 3:28:19One of the things I think you you are tracking as well is that um there's a large reconcili reconciliation funding request for 55 billion and you know that hope is not a strategy. Obviously reconciliation is not the same as a a base budget request. So uh I hope that we can get the right funding at and so the the the rhetoric matches the investment going forward because this is a critical area.
▶ 3:28:44Just switching gears, um, uh, General, how is the army planning on integrating these systems? Like how is the army planned to develop and codify drone warfare doctrine? What is the timeline for getting that doctrine into the hands of formations?
▶ 3:28:57Yes, sir. So, uh, two ways. So, the the first one, we're taking a lot of lessons learned from both the Ukraine uh, and uh, OEF. it's moving at a much faster rate uh into our uh schoolhouse um and into our doctrine.
▶ 3:29:14I I think from what you would have seen when you were in the in the Blue Falcons, um we're also using some tools to be able to scrape uh all of our lessons learned uh out out at CAC in order to get those lessons learned at a faster pace uh into the schoolhouse.
▶ 3:29:30And then the last part, and you know the criticality of this, our combat training centers are using these new TTPs to be able to pose uh, you know, a different threat picture to the the brigades as they go through the training base to be able to learn how to counter this
▶ 3:29:45General and secretary, I just want to reinforce that this is probably the most important thing the army can do. And so I hope we move out and uh, Airborne, let's go.
▶ 3:29:56Thank you very much, Congressman Venman. As we conclude, we have a closing statement by the ranking member Smith. Adam Smith,
▶ 3:30:03thank you. Just a couple quick comments building off of the drone conversation, [clears throat] figuring out how we can encourage a domestic drone manufacturing on the commercial side. I was out in Silicon Valley recently talking with GoPro and Skyo and there's a lot going on there, but the the undercutting by China is making it difficult for us to build that.
▶ 3:30:24And I think on the military use drones, we've got some pretty decent focus, a lot of good companies out there, investment capital going into them, but I think all that would be easier if we could figure out how to compete on the commercial side. I think this is an area where industrial policy is needed. Um maybe even, and I'm not terribly fond of the whole equity stake thing, but in this context, there might be an area where DoD or the government more broadly could help encourage domestic uh commercial. I'd like to follow up and talk with you more about that.
▶ 3:30:53I have not had a chance to talk to you since I had those conversations with the folks out in California. And then just to really emphasize two points that came up here repeatedly um on the civilian harm. I and I think a good number of members on this committee do not trust uh the secretary of defense on civilian harm. Um and we don't trust the notion that it's just being moved around. It seems like it's being gutted um and that there is no focus on it whatsoever. So we're going to want to have, you know, follow up on that to make sure that the law is followed.
▶ 3:31:22And then as we've [clears throat] said repeatedly, just some sort of explanation for the force posture in Europe. Um but there's arguments out there. We can have those arguments. Um but just having the department just make a decision like this and then the people who are implementing the decision saying me I don't know. I just work here. That's what they said. So we're doing it. Um we need to do a little bit better than that. Um why how does this fit into the larger strategy? But I thank both of you for this. And again I'll close where I opened.
▶ 3:31:52what the army is doing on transformation. I am very impressed by um I think we need to speed it up and keep going, but we want to be helpful and cooperative as you uh walk down that road. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield
▶ 3:32:04Thank you, ranking member. Indeed, you see the bipartisanship and I I want to reference again the article in Washington Times yesterday about drone capacity, how the Ukrainians have just um made such progress. It's almost daily progress uh that uh that we can uh obviously work with them as we've worked over the years with missile defense with Israel. With that in mind too, as we conclude, I want to congratulate uh you both of you with working with Secretary Pete Hath.
▶ 3:32:34To me, this is a year of historic achievements. Working with Syria as dictator Assad has fled to Moscow. Arresting dictator Maduro of Venezuela. Elimination of dictator Kmeni of Iran. Heroic uh rescue of the pilot down in Iran, leaving no one behind. The people of Syria, Venezuela, and Iran now have an opportunity for peace and prosperity.
▶ 3:32:59And this also encourages the people of Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and the Republic of Georgia to work for fair and free elections. And this is because the success of the American military. With that, we are adjourned.