▶ 0:11:50Heat. Heat.
▶ 0:13:53Committee will committee will come to order. Uh without objection, the chair reserves the right to declare the committee in recess at any point. Uh before we begin, I want to remind those in the audience that this hearing is open to the public, but actions that disrupt or distract the proceedings will not be tolerated. The chair reserves the right to remove disruptive persons from the hearing. The US Capital Police are on hand to assist with the ta that task and I thank them for their service. Also, uh a few more housekeeping notes.
▶ 0:14:23We will adjourn this open session no later than 1:30 p.m. Members are also advised that we will enforce the new security protocol protocols for today's closed hearing. The hash staff at that time will ask you to sign in to the classified portion of the brief of the hearing. Um you will have to leave all materials and other items including daily briefing books, purses, etc.
▶ 0:14:48outside the room uh except for unclassified loose papers containing questions for the briefers and surrender all loose papers for destruction or safekeeping in a secure committee space upon departure. Uh with that I'll turn back to the opening remarks today. Uh we continue our posture hearings with SCCOM and Ariccom. For 47 years, the Iranian regime and its proxies have murdered Americans, attacked our allies, and terrorized the Middle East.
▶ 0:15:19On October 7 of 2023, the world saw exactly what Iran's terror network was capable of when Hamas carried out the deadliest attack on the Jewish people since the The lesson is clear. Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. The America uh President Trump is committed to ensuring that that never happens.
▶ 0:15:44Last summer, Operation Midnight Hammer delivered a destructive blow to Iran's nuclear program. Operation Epic Fury shattered the regime's ability to shield that program with its conventional forces. Despite the criticism, there should be no confusion about what this operation set out to achieve.
▶ 0:16:06destroy Iran's ballistic missiles and drone Iran's navy, and third, dismantle Iran's defense industrial base to prevent it from uh projecting power outside its borders. And the results were decisive. To quote Admiral Cooper in his written statement, in 38 days, we rolled back 40 years of Iranian military investment. Close quote.
▶ 0:16:32More than 85% of Iran's ballistic missile, drone, and naval defense uh industrial base has been damaged or destroyed. The regime's ability to stockpile ballistic missiles and long range drones has been set back by years. Iran's air force is no more. Over 90% of Iran's na traditional navy has been sunk. and Iran is now far less capable of sustaining terrorist proxies like Hzbollah and the Houthis and Hamas.
▶ 0:17:03This operation also demonstrated the unmatched professionalism, lethality, and courage of the American war fighter. Every American should take pride in what our forces accomplished under extraordinarily demanding conditions. And we must honor the 13 brave Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice in their service to our country.
▶ 0:17:26Operation Epic Fury also demonstrated the enduring strength of America's allies, alliances and partnerships. That begins with Israel, a model ally, fought alongside the United States throughout this campaign. Our Gulf partners and Jordan provided critical access, basing, and overflight support. So too did our NATO allies.
▶ 0:17:52Almost without exception, our NATO allies opened their bases and their airspace to support this mission. That access was critical to sustaining an operation of this scale. But this conflict also reminded us who our friends are not. China and Russia reportedly assisted Iran during this conflict. That should concern every American citizen. Any effort by our adversaries to help Iran rebuild its military must carry consequences.
▶ 0:18:22And while Operation Epic Fury has concluded, pressure on the Iranian regime continues. I want to hear more from Admiral Cooper about how Sentcom's uh current about um Sentcom's current posture, including the blockade of the Iranian ports, is supporting diplomatic efforts by increasing pressure on what remains of the regime. My understanding is that the damage to Iran's oil infrastructure and the loss of millions of dollars in daily revenue are imposing severe economic cost on tyran.
▶ 0:18:53That pressure matters because not only must Iran never obtain a nuclear weapon, it must also not be allowed to dominate the straight of Hormuz. China is watching closely to see whether the United States will defend freedom of navigation, protect global commerce, and respond decisively to aggression. uh we must not falter in our resolve at the at the same time we must not forget the area of the Middle East and Africa remain hot beds of terrorism.
▶ 0:19:22It is imperative that we continue hunting ISIS, al Qaeda, al-Shabaab and other terrorist groups before they can threaten our homeland. I want to hear from both commanders about how they are working with regional partners to keep terrorists on the run. The successful operation over the weekend targeting the second in command of ISIS in Nigeria demonstrated once again that terrorist have no refuge from the United States military or our partners.
▶ 0:19:51General Anderson to sustain that pressure. I want your assessment of whether ARICOM has the necessary resources. I look for forward to hearing from all of our witnesses today with I yield to the ranking member my friend Adam Smith for any opening statement he may have.
▶ 0:20:06Thank you Mr. chair and thank our witnesses for coming before us today. Uh the scentcom and Africcom aos are incredibly important and if there's one word to sum it up right now, it's instability and that in instability is incredibly dangerous. Certainly we will talk I know a great deal about the war against Iran and the instability in the Middle East. But Africa is also a very unstable place right now. We are engaged in bombing campaign from time to time in Nigeria.
▶ 0:20:32ISIS and ISIS affiliates are are rising particularly in Mali and Nir and Banana Faso. So that instability is definitely making us less safe. Um terrorist organizations have bases of support an almost caliphate like situation is existing in Africa and obviously we've seen uh the chaos in the Middle East with the rise of Shiaabbacked militias in Iraq, the ongoing war between Israel and Lebanon and obviously the ongoing conflict with Iran, the shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz.
▶ 0:21:00I mean it it goes beyond the national security threat in terms of terrorism the economy uh the impact it's having certainly on our economy but the global economy as well and then we can also have the rise of disease we have a you know a strain of Ebola that apparently is stronger than usual growing up in the DRC where there is also instability so the number one biggest thing is how can we bring more stability to the region work with partners allies others in the region to get us to a better place than we are in right now because it is as bad
▶ 0:21:31as it's been for a very very long time on Iran. I disagree with the chairman unsurprisingly. Um, yes, we have knocked back a lot of Iran's capability. The truth of the matter is, in all the questions that I've asked, we don't know for sure how much. We don't know exactly how many ballistic missiles they have, what their capabilities are. Um, we know it has been substantially weakened, but we don't have specific answers to that.
▶ 0:21:56We also have to worry about the fact that Russia, China, and North Korea are more than willing to be helpful to Iran. And I'm not sure, threats aside, we're in a position to change their mind about that. So, we have to be worried about that. But we do know for sure, whatever capability Iran has, they have the capability to shut down the Stued for Moose. And frankly, I don't care whether they've got 75% less ballistic missiles, 80% less ballistic missiles. They clearly, the regime is in place. It's not going anywhere.
▶ 0:22:27It is more hardline than it was when this war started. And they have done something that they had not previously done, which is shut down the straight of Hormuz, which is causing massive economic disasters for for us and for the entire world. So, you know, we can go through the the body count here and say we destroyed this many ballistic missiles, we destroyed this many launchers, we set their capability back. That's all fascinating. strategically we are in a disaster right now and that's what needs to be fixed and we do not see a path out of that.
▶ 0:22:57Let's just focus on the nuclear weapon program because any criticism of the war is sort of met with well gosh if it wasn't for the war Iran would have already detonated nuclear weapons in the Middle East. That's completely ridiculous. I mean that that's an argument for for Fox News and Newsmax maybe. But in the real world, that doesn't justify what has happened because the nuclear program for Iran is no weaker today than it was when this war started.
▶ 0:23:23We have destroyed none of their nuclear material and set them back, not one tiny little bit. The only thing that has changed on Iran's nuclear program. They are now unwilling to negotiate about it. They were willing to negotiate. They were actively negotiating about it when we started this war.
▶ 0:23:39So please let's not get over into the detail about oh we destroyed this many missiles this many launchers that what is the strategic plan to reopen the straight of horm and get us any closer to stopping Iran's nuclear program for all the criticisms of the previous presidents which of course the current president was one of those previous presidents all of those previous presidents managed to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon without dropping the Middle East and much of the world into chaos that is really the
▶ 0:24:09difference right now. And I know most of the uniform folks when we ask these questions say, "Well, we're just going to tell you what's going on. We we don't do the the strategy." I find that an incredibly unacceptable answer. And not an answer that I had ever gotten before from uniform personnel under any other president. The whole we just work here thing doesn't really work. You guys should have strategic answers and you should be willing to share them with the American people and with this committee.
▶ 0:24:36Where we're at right now is the president every few days threatens to kill as many Iranians as humanly possible. He does it in a variety of different language. U but basically no quarter, you know, we will erase their civilization. We'll kill every single person in Iran. And the chairman's absolutely right. The Iranian regime is awful, evil, terrible. They've killed tens of thousands of Iranian civilians and done terrible things throughout the region. What are we in a competition with them now to to talk about how many Iranian civilians we can kill?
▶ 0:25:05So just saying that pushes a good chunk of the world further away from us. They're like, I don't know that we want to deal with those people. But of course, he says it and then the next day or two days later doesn't do anything much less that and then claims that Iran is now willing to negotiate on all these issues. In fact, the absolute ner of this process was I think it was four weeks ago when I woke up Friday morning and the president said Iran has completely capitulated. You remember that the war was over.
▶ 0:25:35You know, Iran had agreed to get rid of their nukes, get rid of their terrorism support, get rid of their ballistic missiles, open up the straight was open and there was reporting all day long like this was real. The president literally made up. There was no progress whatsoever. And now the credibility of our entire country, because sadly the credibility of our country hinges on the credibility of our president, is dead. Who's going to believe anything we say? There is no evidence today that Iran is negotiating any of these things. Their position has not budged.
▶ 0:26:06Pay us to open up the straight. That's basically their position, which is an incredibly weaker position for us. So, what we need to know today is what's the strategic plan to get us out of this hole we're in. And thumping our chest about how many successful missions we ran doesn't change the fact that our economy is in the toilet. Inflation is higher than it's been in three or four years. Gas prices are up a buck 50 and there's no end in sight.
▶ 0:26:32And it's worse for the rest of the world because as the president dismissively pointed out but correctly pointed out the rest of the world is more dependent upon the straight of whoo being open than we are which makes them just so grateful to us for having effectively shut it down. So let's hear a plan that isn't the president getting up in the morning and imagining that somehow wish fulfillment works in foreign policy. imagining that Iran has completely capitulated to all of our demands.
▶ 0:27:00What is an actual plan to get us out of this hole that the United States has done such an outstanding job of digging for all of us? That's what we need to hear today. I yield back. Uh thank the ranking member. Now like to introduce our witnesses. First, we have the Honorable Dan Zimmerman, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs.
▶ 0:27:22Admiral Brad Cooper, Commander of Sentcom, and General Den Dagen Anderson, Commander of Apricom. Welcome to our witnesses. Uh, Mr. Zimmerman, we'll start with you. You're
▶ 0:27:37Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith and distinguished members of this committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the posture of our forces and strategic priorities within the US Central Command and US Africa Command areas of responsibility. It is my honor to appear alongside SentCom Commander Admiral Cooper and ARIRCOM Commander General Anderson.
▶ 0:28:00My testimony today will focus on the department's approach to posture and strategy in these two theaters and how that is guided by our National Defense Strategy or NDS. The NDS is based on the principles of peace through strength and America first foreign policy flowing from the conviction that a government's first duty is always to its own citizens. Our strategy has four succinct lines of effort. First, we will defend the homeland.
▶ 0:28:28Second, we will deter China in the Indo-Pacific. Third, we will encourage and expect our allies and partners to step up and take more responsibility, especially in those areas where they have direct national security interests. And finally, to achieve all of this, we must supercharge the US defense industrial base. Our strategy is America first.
▶ 0:28:52The United States will prioritize theaters and challenges with the greatest consequence for American interests and where only American power can play a decisive role. Our adversaries must understand without doubt that the United States possesses both the capability and the political will to use decisive force to protect its vital interests and to safeguard the security and prosperity of the American people.
▶ 0:29:16As the NDS lays out, we aim to work with and support our allies and partners around the world to deter threats, set conditions for peace, and to pursue mutual security interests. Regarding the Middle East, President Trump has made clear that the United States seeks a more peaceful and prosperous Middle East, one defined by commerce and not chaos. This needs to be a Middle East where our allies and partners invest in and take the lead in responsibility for their own security.
▶ 0:29:47But to be clear, the United States will always retain the ability to act decisively to defend ourselves and our allies where and when we need. Operation Epic Fury is an example of this strategy in action. The president initiated Operation Epic Fury in direct response to the Iranian regime that waged a one-sided war against America for 47 years that threatened allies and partners and caused thousands of American casualties.
▶ 0:30:15And I would like to mention here and the and acknowledge the 14 fallen service members. We honor them and their families across every domain, land, sea, air, and cyber. The US joint force delivered synchronized and layered effects to disrupt, degrade, and destroy Iran's ability to conduct and sustain combat operations.
▶ 0:30:39The secretary has noted that although Operation Epic Fury was historic for its complexity, lethality, and precision, it also had a laser focused mission, scope to our interests, and the defense of our people and our allies.
▶ 0:30:54President Trump also seeks to redefine the United States relationship with Africa, transitioning from an aid focused relationship to a trade and investment focused relationship, favoring partnerships with capable, reliable states intent on achieving common interests.
▶ 0:31:10Our department will take a resource sustainable approach to counterterrorism and stand ready to take direct action against Islam Islamic terrorists Africa who are both capable of and intent on in striking the US while empowering African and other partners to lead efforts to degrade and destroy terrorist organizations throughout the continent. Our operation with Nigeria over the weekend is an example of this strategy in action.
▶ 0:31:39Working alongside Nigerian partners, US forces executed a raid in northeast Nigeria, killing the ISIS global director of operations, Balal Al- Muniki, and members of his inner circle. Muniki will no longer be able to plot against American citizens and interests. In conclusion, the Department of War will continue without wavering to defend and secure the freedom and prosperity of the United States.
▶ 0:32:04Our posture in the US sentcom and US Afric is a coherent and integrated execution of our national defense strategy. It is an America first policy that advances peace through strength. Under the direction of President Trump, the department has demonstrated our commitment and capability to defend the homeland and secure American priorities abroad while encouraging our allies and partners to increasingly shoulder responsibility on mutual security interests.
▶ 0:32:34The department is confident in the strategy, in our exceptional service members, and in our ability to defend the United States. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:32:43Thank you, Mr. Zimman. Admiral Cooper, you're recognized.
▶ 0:32:48Well, good morning, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today and thanks especially to the committee for your steadfast support to the US military and US Central Command. I'm pleased to join today with commander of US Africa Command, my good friend, General Dag Anderson, and Assistant Secretary Dan Zimmerman. I'm grateful to be accompanied by my wife, Susan, representing the families of the more than 50,000 service members deployed Middle East.
▶ 0:33:16I'm also pleased to be joined by Fleet Command Master Chief Latif Compton, the senior enlisted leader of SCCOM. Recent events in the central region show how quickly the course of history can change. Decades old features of the strategic landscape believed immunable have been upended bringing both challenges and I strongly believe that every success that we have starts and ends with our people.
▶ 0:33:40In just the last seven months, America's sons and daughters serving in Sentcom have played key roles in implementing the president's 20point peace plan for Gaza, degrading the ISIS threat in Syria, preventing an ISIS crisis by conducting a historic transfer of over 5,700 ISIS prisoners from Syria to Iraq, creating the most integrated and effective regional air defense architecture ever seen, which was decades in the making, and most recently addressing the rapidly accelerating Iranian threat.
▶ 0:34:10US Central Command was created in direct response to the threats posed by the Islamic Republic of Iran and I'm the 16th Sententcom commander to deal with the Iranian problem set. For 47 years, the Iranian regime terrorized the region and made hostility hostility to the United States a core tenant of its rule. The regime is an even more deadly threat to its own people, killing tens of thousands of innocent Iranians during protests in January with public executions ongoing.
▶ 0:34:39Iran has long had three pillars of intimidation and coercion. Their nuclear program, their ballistic missiles and drones, and their proxies, especially Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthis. Let's look at each of these. First, all signs pointed to Iran's intent to create a nuclear weapon capability. And then to protect their nuclear program, Iran built thousands of ballistic missiles and drones. And they did it for two reasons.
▶ 0:35:06To create a shield to make their nuclear sight untouchable, and to create an offensive capability so large that regional partners couldn't possibly defend against it. Along the way, their proxies did Iran's dirty work across the region. Prior to the start of Epic Fury, Iranian supported terror groups attacked US troops and diplomats more than 350 times in the previous two and a half years, killing four US service members and wounding nearly 200 others.
▶ 0:35:35To directly counter this accelerating Iranian strategy that we all saw, the US military was directed by the president to execute two significant operations. And here are the results. First, Operation Midnight Hammer significantly degraded Iran's nuclear program. And second, Operation Epic Fury significantly degraded Iran's ballistic missiles and drones while destroying 90% of their defense industrial base, ensuring that Iran cannot reconstitute for years.
▶ 0:36:03And then finally, Iran spent decades and billions of dollars arming proxies. Today, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are cut off from Iran's weapons supply and support. Set a different way, America. American military action derailed Iran's strategy that was 47 years in the making. So where are we now? The ceasefire continues and consistent with the president's direction, we've established a highly effective maritime blockade of Iran.
▶ 0:36:32To date, we've turned away 88 ships. There has been zero trade into Iranian ports and zero trade out of Iranian ports, squeezing Iran economically and creating powerful leverage for the ongoing negotiations. Of course, these results were not without cost. We honor the memories of the 14 service members who made ultimate sacrifice during Operation Epic Fury and two soldiers and a civilian killed in Palmyra, Syria. They represent the very best among all of us.
▶ 0:37:00But before I close, I want to make clear we are committed to the law of armed conflict. The United States does not target civilians. We take all civilian casualty reports seriously. This is now part of our culture and I invite each and every one of you as well as all of your staffs to visit Tampa and see our targeting process for yourselves. As I sit here, we're cleareyed. The situation in front of us is complex. High stakes negotiations continue. Our job is to be ready and we are.
▶ 0:37:29I testify today on behalf of the brave servicemen and women deployed to the central region. It's a great life honor and privilege to serve as their commander and thank you and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Admiral General. You're Cameron Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to provide you an update on US Africa Command.
▶ 0:37:53I'm joined today by Command Circuit Maker Garrick Banfield, ARICOM Senior Enlisted Leader, and it's an honor for me to be here today with my friend and colleague Admiral Cooper and the Honorable Dan We all appreciate your unwavering support to our nation's warf fighters. Before I start, I'd like to recognize the service of First Lieutenant Kendrick Lamont Key Jr. and Specialist Mariah Allington, who lost their lives in a tragic accident during African lion.
▶ 0:38:18I would also like to thank our allies and partners, particularly Morocco, who stepped forward when it mattered most. Today, the epicenter of global terrorism is in Africa. ISIS leadership is African. Al-Qaeda's economic engine is in Africa. Both groups share the will and intent to strike our homeland. As the president reported this past Friday, Africam in close coordination with our Nigerian partners dealt a significant blow to ISIS global terror network.
▶ 0:38:49Our successful mission eliminated several key ISIS leaders to include Abu Balal al-manuki, the most active and impactful terrorist in the world. He was the ISIS financial and organizational mastermind plotting attacks against the United States and our interests. Manuki's death disrupts ISIS operations around the world, but only sustained pressure and multi-dimensional approach with the support of partners united by mutual security interest can address this complex problem.
▶ 0:39:18As this re recent operation demonstrates, ARICOM is prioritizing willing and capable partners. We support partners with unique capabilities that only the US can provide, such as ISR, targeting, and precision strike. This approach has taken ISIS leaders off the battlefield in Nigeria and driven their leadership in Somalia underground, putting pressure on the broader ISIS In West Africa, al-Qaeda affiliate JM has demonstrated increased capacity to control key terrain in the Sahel, most notably by strangling fuel
▶ 0:39:48supplies around population centers. The capture of a capital city would provide al-Qaeda with all the trappings of a nation state to sponsor global terrorism. With a 75% reduction in our regional posture over the past decade, compounded by the draw down of our allies, we struggle with an intelligence black hole. Without sufficient indicators and warnings, we risk being blind to the gathering dangers and threats of the Africam's lack of expeditionary capabilities and diminished force posture compromises our crisis response.
▶ 0:40:18In a crisis, we can surge assets, but you cannot surge trust. Our reduced presence on the continent also allows disruptive actors to drive the agenda and undercut American interests. China views Africa as its second continent, securing control over critical minerals and infrastructure, potentially boxing us out of the resources that energize our industrial base.
▶ 0:40:41Africa also serves as Putin's purse, where Russia exploits instability, to extract resources, including human lives, to fuel its war To contend with these threats, Ariccom must think and operate differently. With less than onetenth of 1% of the department's budget, we must maximize every taxpayer dollar to deliver an outsized return on investment. ARICOM continues to leverage lowcost, high yield activities to amplify our impact on the continent.
▶ 0:41:08International military education and training and the state partnership program are reliable force multipliers, forging partnerships with African militaries and demonstrating cost-effective burden The Africam exercise program is emerging as a battle lab to test and validate new technologies on behalf of both the joint force and our African partners. Finally, Africa sits at the crossroads of global commerce and security, bridging strategic terrain between the Atlantic and the Indoacific.
▶ 0:41:36It is the world supplier of critical minerals for advanced defense systems and home to 12 of the 20 fastest growing economies. By 2050, it will account for a third of the global working age population. Africam is increasingly focused on this critical convergence of economy and security and stability. Our efforts span all elements of national power and we coordinate closely with state, commerce, energy and treasury.
▶ 0:42:01The department's new economic defense unit has been an invaluable partner to defend the homeland, promote US interest, and ensure effective crisis response. Afric needs targeted investments in layered non-traditional ISR, innovative force protection, programs that enable willing and capable partners, the opportunity to expand experimentation, and the ability to respond to crisis at the time and point of need. Africa is a continent of opportunities, not only crises.
▶ 0:42:31With the continued support of this committee, I can assure you that every dollar you authorize for ARICOM will contribute directly to the security, safety, and prosperity of the United States. Thank you, and I look forward to your
▶ 0:42:44Uh, thank you, General. Thank all the witnesses uh for for being here in that in those testimonies. That's very helpful to us. I recognize myself for Admiral Cooper, you have spent the last six years in either senior le leadership or command positions in the Middle East.
▶ 0:42:59In your expert opinion, was there any time over the last 40 years uh that Iran or the Iranian regime posed a greater threat threat United States, Israel and our allies in the region before Midnight Hammer and Epic Fur Fury?
▶ 0:43:15No sir.
▶ 0:43:17So uh are they less capable today than they were before those exercises? They are significantly less capable today than they were before the two major
▶ 0:43:25And what would a nuclear armed Iran mean uh for our partners in the Middle East and our presence there?
▶ 0:43:31Well, clearly the president has stated Iran will not be nuclear armed. It would obviously represent a very highly destabilizing element uh into the region and have global impact.
▶ 0:43:42So basically, we're safer, the our country is safer and our allies in the region are safer because of what our president's done in in Iran over the last couple of months. We are unquestionably safer as a result of US military actions.
▶ 0:43:54Thank you. Um General Anderson, the operation uh that eliminated global ISIS second in command uh over the weekend demonstrated the growing terrorist threat in your AO, but also the value of the partnerships that we have there. Um how how are you strengthening partnerships in your AO going forward to make sure that that threat doesn't make it to our homeland?
▶ 0:44:17Chairman, that's a incredibly important point because we cannot operate there and and respond to these crises or these threats without the access basing and overflight that is dependent upon the relationships with these partners. So we are investing a significant amount of effort uh in order to build those relationships and build that credibility. The operation over the weekend built a lot of that credibility of what the US can bring and that those unique capabilities can be brought to bear in conjunction with our partners.
▶ 0:44:44The Nigerians have been instrumental throughout the last several months uh developing the target, helping us with the intelligence and providing support in order to do that. So it could not have been done by our own uh forces that we needed to do that in conjunction with them. We are using that to leverage that to engage with other nations such as those in the Sahel where the terrorist threat continues to grow to try to open that dialogue so we can address this mutual threat.
▶ 0:45:09Is there anything in particular that this committee could do to be helpful to you in developing partnerships that can uh benefit us in the future?
▶ 0:45:17Uh yes sir. I think uh some key investments in some of the uh expeditionary capabilities such as a float forward staging base, expeditionary ISR is critical to that. Uh support for continued engagement with small teams such as our special operations teams or small uh conventional trainers goes a long way.
▶ 0:45:35And then the last one I would say that is not as much in the military realm but where we see the security convergence and intersection with economics is encouraging investment and development in Africa that allows uh for that stability uh to continue to develop because uh security depends upon stability that allows investment and that leads to prosperity and that's eventually uh helps protect the United States in the long run. So, uh, while not directly our role, we can help identify those areas where those investments have security implications.
▶ 0:46:05Yeah. Well, I do think it's important when we talk about our role there that we make it clear to the larger uh universe of members of Congress that we do need to be building partnerships in in the African continent. And we don't need to be tying that to them changing their cultural values necessarily. We need partnerships. and and whether we like it or not, China and Russia and Iran are all down there building partnerships and they're not judging these people based on their cultural values.
▶ 0:46:34So, it's something I think we can learn from. With that, uh I would yield to the ranking member for any questions he may have.
▶ 0:46:40Uh thank you, Admiral Cooper. You mentioned in your opening remarks the commitment of your command to preventing civilian harm. So, just two questions about that. one, it's been 80 days thereabouts um since the initial bombing campaign that struck uh the girls school in Iran. Tran killed, I think, over 150 school girls. It's really pretty clear what happened there. Uh but 80 days on, we have not taken responsibility for that attack.
▶ 0:47:10The endless stalling that's being investigated, it's being investigated, it's being investigated. In the past when we've had these types of mistakes, they have been quickly acknowledged even if a further investigation is necessary to figure out prevention methods. So, can you at this moment acknowledge that that mistake was made and that we were responsible for it? It's something we didn't want to do and don't want to repeat.
▶ 0:47:36Uh, Congressman, to reiterate, the United States does not deliberately Period. Full stop. uh and nor are the Iranian people our enemy. Uh the IRGC is the adversary in this case.
▶ 0:47:48I've heard that in your opening statement, Admiral. I asked you a very specific question and I'm curious what the answer is.
▶ 0:47:53So the investigation is ongoing. Uh as soon as it is complete, I'm happy to be as we will not take responsibility for something we very obviously did
▶ 0:48:02and what so it's a it's a complex investigation. The school itself is located on an active IRGC cruise missile base. It's more complex than the average uh strike. uh as soon as we're complete. I'm fully committed to transparency uh given your important oversight role and the other members here.
▶ 0:48:18Just so you know, and I have an enormous amount of respect for you, an enormous amount of respect for the Pentagon. I do not trust that answer. What what we've seen out of this Secretary of Defense and his callous disregard for any sort of rules of engagement or protecting civilian life may make us suspicious. And that's the only second question I have for you. Do you think it's ever appropriate for anybody in a leadership position to use the words no quarter when describing how we are conducting our operations in Iran?
▶ 0:48:46Sir, I think it's appropriate as military leaders, we follow the law of armed conflict and our constitutional responsibilities and that's what we've
▶ 0:48:53And you would agree that no quarter is not following the law.
▶ 0:48:57I would agree it's our constitutional responsibility to follow the law.
▶ 0:49:02Is no quarter following the law or not? I would agree that we follow the law, sir. The moniker specific general generic understanding of it and they do whatever we want to do with no
▶ 0:49:17Look, people make mistakes. It's in a war. Things happen. I get that. Okay? And I'm not going to be as overly judgmental as some, but that the arrogance of this Pentagon and their unwillingness to acknowledge any mistake is precisely the reason that we are in the hole that we're in with no way out of. Somebody in that command needs to own up to the dumb things that are said and done to give us some confidence that they won't keep happening. M Mr.
▶ 0:49:46Zimmerman, can you explain to me how it works? why it is considered to be intelligent for the president day after day after day to keep saying that Iran has agreed to things that very clearly they have not agreed to which then becomes obvious to the entire world within some 24 to 48 hour time period. Help me out here. What is the strategy between of the president standing up and saying we have defeated them. The war is over. They've agreed to everything.
▶ 0:50:15I mean, doesn't that just make us look like a bunch of clowns past a certain point when it becomes obvious that that's not the case?
▶ 0:50:23Uh, Congressman, the the president's willingness to act decisively to protect Americans and our partners and allies has advanced US credibility. It is not it has not sunk US credibility.
▶ 0:50:35Well, but addressing this specific issue, we could have that debate in a different direction. But he has repeatedly said that Iran has agreed to things that they obviously have not agreed to. And let me ask the question this way. Is the president misinformed? Are people doing a bad job of informing him about what's going on? Is he that ignorant about the circumstances or is he just making it up as part of some I don't know sixthdimensional stress uh sorry chess strategy here?
▶ 0:51:04So why
▶ 0:51:07the president has the best information available to to any head of state.
▶ 0:51:11Why does he keep getting it wrong then?
▶ 0:51:13The president does not keep getting it wrong. Uh the they're the White House is leading these negotiations to find a long-term solution.
▶ 0:51:21I'm sorry. You have 20 seconds left here, but he doesn't keep getting it wrong. He says literally the straight is open. Iran has agreed to give up their nuclear weapons. Iran has agreed to give up their ballistic missile programs. Ask your basic question. Is the straight of Hormuz open? Has Iran given up their nuclear weapons?
▶ 0:51:40The the straight of Hormuz is a is a complex situation right now uh where you have a severely degraded
▶ 0:51:48I hope you look back at this and understand how bad this is making you look. I mean, look, you you can answer the question. You can challenge me in a thousand different ways, but to just pretend that reality isn't reality and say it over and over again in a public hearing, I'm sorry, that's not helping our credibility. Thank you for the indulgence, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 0:52:07Chair now recognizes a gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson.
▶ 0:52:11Thank you, Chairman Mike Rogers, for your correct assessment that the American military is unmatched professionalism as we see with the three witnesses today. how reassuring for the American people and how a deterrence it is to the enemies we have around the world. I've never been more appreciative of the American military than I am today. As a 31-year veteran myself, I'm really grateful that I've had four sons uh serve in Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan to see the success and dictators are on the run.
▶ 0:52:41Uh it began, I'm grateful, with the dictator Assad in Syria and uh he um actually an honor. He declared me an enemy of the state November a year ago and then with President Trump's election, he fled to Moscow. Uh and now President Trump is giving Syria a chance. The dictator's gone. And then I'm really grateful that the dictatorship in Venezuela has been uh removed again. Uh what extraordinary success.
▶ 0:53:08I was really grateful to have the opportunity to let President Trump know how much uh the American military, American citizens appreciate that he showed that the Russian anti-aircraft capability is not very good. Chinese radar fails and Cuban mercenaries are expendable. And then you get to the ultimate and it just should not be misunderstood. Historically, the elimination of Kmeni and his uh his leadership.
▶ 0:53:33uh in world history I'm not aware of any conflict begun where in the first minute the uh leadership dictatorship was eliminated and how deserving because he had just murdered 40,000 of his own citizens and so he deserved what came his way despite the sympathy of the American mil media that we should have given notice with that in mind too I I around the world from operations in the western hemisphere against narco terrorists to decisive action against the Iranian regime through operation an epic fury
▶ 0:54:03to the continued efforts against terrorist and malign actors across Africa and Middle East. Our SE service members have demonstrated extraordinary courage, precision, and unmatched professionalism. as we confront Iran and its uh puppets who have attacked and murdered the Israelis and the terrorist organizations and war criminal Putin who wants to resurrect the Soviet Union, the failed Soviet Union, uh annexing Barus, leaving troops in Malddova, uh
▶ 0:54:33invading Georgia, uh rigging elections in the Republic of Georgia where the correct president, a legitimate president is slowly and then of course the invasion of uh Ukraine with tens of thousands of people who have lost their lives.
▶ 0:54:50With that in mind, the going growing influence of the Chinese Communist Party, we need to assure that the Central Command and Africa Command have the posture, partnerships, and capabilities needed to defend the homeland, protect our allies, and achieve peace through strength.
▶ 0:55:06With that, Admiral Cooper, you have documented really well the success of oper operation epic fury, which has been a devastating blow to the dictatorship in uh Iran and ability to murder Israelis and Americans. In your assessment, has this degraded Iran's ability to generate another October 7th with mass murder of Israeli citizens? Congressman, first thank you for your own service and and that of your children.
▶ 0:55:35Uh we honor them today. I'd my my assessment from a military perspective is as we sit here today, uh Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis have been cut off from the from the decadesl long flow of military supplies uh and thus uh mitigating and eliminating any chance of a future October 7th uh based on the circumstances right now.
▶ 0:55:57I I just agree with your assessment and it's just remarkable the achievements of our military and Secretary Zimmerman, I appreciate your North Carolina heritage and the department has promoted partners in both the Middle East and Africa to assume more responsibility for their own security. Uh how are we achieving this without creating a vacuum against war criminal Putin or the Chinese Communist Party or the regime in Tehran? Thank you, Congressman.
▶ 0:56:27And as we are working to find operationally independent partners with shared security interests who can responsibly take up uh uh the security burden along alongside us, we are we are very cleareyed about the the threats uh across the sentom and Africcom theater that these that these adversaries present. We have not lost sight of those.
▶ 0:56:50And indeed uh Admiral Cooper, we did have allies come to work with us in operation cur fury. Can you identify key allies that were helpful?
▶ 0:57:02Congressman, most notably we literally serve side by side in this broad middle east air defense network uh with five middle east partners uh UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar. Uh
▶ 0:57:14gentleman's times expired here and I recognize gentle Connecticut. Uh Mr.
▶ 0:57:18Thank you uh Mr. chairman. Um, and thank you to the witnesses. Uh, Mr. Zimmerman and Admiral Cooper. Um, in your testimony, Admiral, you you in page three stated that one of the top priorities of Sentcom is preserving America's advantage and position of strength relative to China. Mr. Zimmerman, in page one, you said secondly, we will second will deter China in the Indoacific region through strength, not confrontation.
▶ 0:57:43So the US Navy uh naval um uh institute publishes a weekly ship tracker um which again identifies where our surface ships are are located around the world today. So uh last night's um tracker shows that there are 25 warships uh that are in the central command uh region. Two more u mind sweepers are apparently on the way uh to to join the fleet in Indoacific.
▶ 0:58:11We have one carrier uh the George Washington which is not actually just being fitted out for deployment. It's not actually underway with a strike force. And we have one Argu amphibious ship with three accompanying uh vessels. That's four. That's the total count. That's 52% of the of the surface of the earth is in the Indo-Pacific region.
▶ 0:58:33And because of this war, we have ships that are homeported in Yokusa, Pearl Harbor that are now uh situated uh in central command. And I guess the question I have for you, Mr. Zimmerman, um the national defense strategy states that the US will build and sustain a strong denial defense along the first island chain. Um and um you know right now um I don't know how that's possible given the fact that uh so many forces naval forces have been concentrated in command.
▶ 0:59:03How is his is this policy this war um in in co you know aligned with our national defense strategy which identified China as still the the number one pacing threat. Uh, Congressman, we rem we remain uh fully committed to the priorities as you have outlined them there, including uh denial defense uh and deterring China
▶ 0:59:26with what
▶ 0:59:28uh Congressman, we retain the ability to act decisively uh when and where we need to around the globe. That's all part of the global force management process. The Indo-Pacific theater is is not part of my theater. So I'll be careful uh how broadly I I speak. But rest assured, the department is 100 committed 100% committed to the priorities laid out in the NDS and we retain the ability to act to implement all those priorities
▶ 0:59:56I would just ask that the um the USNI tracker dated May 18th be admitted to the record which again just shows the incredible imbalance that we have right now in terms of u the positioning of our fleet. Um I would also note um you know Mr. Um Rogers correctly stated how important it is to build up partnerships. Uh right now, you know, we have a terrible energy crisis in this country, which Mr. Smith referred to.
▶ 1:00:20Eastern Asia um is of a totally bigger, more catastrophic magnitude. Countries are implementing 4-day work weeks. They're they're doing uh rationing uh because of the fact that not only is the prices not going up but because they depend on the straight of Hormuz supplies are actually um being run down right now.
▶ 1:00:42it is not really hard for people to sort of understand who's causing this in terms of countries that we are trying to build uh partnerships and and frankly I think that is another strategic uh harm that this war has created in terms of again the number one identified defense challenge that we face according to Trump's own uh defense strategy Cooper I have a a couple quick questions for you is is a blackade an act of or
▶ 1:01:12so we're executing the blockade today consistent with international armed
▶ 1:01:17Well, the the international law actually in terms of blockades was established in 1909 at the London Naval Conference which the US participated in and the US Senate actually voted to endorse and it defined blockades as an act of war. Blackades don't work unless you have warships there to enforce them. So, of course, it's an act of war. I mean, and again, that's black letter maritime law, isn't it?
▶ 1:01:40Sir, I I defer to the department as well as the White House and any characterization of how we execute business uh from a combatant command standpoint. I'm from my from my perspective, execute the orders as given. And today, the legal uh the the legal uh umbrella that we're uh operating under is international armed
▶ 1:01:57Well, it it's it is really, as I said, not even a question of of law or facts. I mean, if we had a navy blockading the port of New York and New Jersey, we would treat that as an act of war. And the notion that somehow the the ceasefire stopped the tolling of the War Powers Act um in in in April when we put a blockade a few days later uh which is an act of war um again fails the the legal test which you don't need to really get intense advice from office of legal counsel.
▶ 1:02:27I yield back.
▶ 1:02:27Gentleman's time is expired. Chair now recognizes Mr. Turner.
▶ 1:02:34Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Anderson, uh in your opening portion of your written statement, uh you say that ARICOM, we work with our African partners and our allies on collective security. You then note um that uh you're facing more demanding challenges with ISIS, al-Qaeda, but also disruptive actors like Russia, China, and and Iran. I want to turn to Kenya uh and Russia.
▶ 1:03:02Um I think you uh I believe that Kenya is a strong ally. You you would agree that Kenya is a strong ally, would you not, General?
▶ 1:03:09Yes, I would.
▶ 1:03:11Um the uh I've been to Kenya. I've I've I've seen and I'm aware of u you know our collective operations and I was very surprised and very concerned when I saw of the New York Times reporting of Kenya's National Intelligence Service uh report that up to a thousand Kenyans had been um uh solicited by Russia and had been uh taken by Russia
▶ 1:03:41to fight in UK. Ukraine and that they had um uh taken them from Kenya and they'd ended up in the front lines of of of Ukraine. What struck me is is not just that there were Russians in UK in um Kenya that were operating, but that the enormity of what an operation would be to be able to solicit and obtain and and get a convince a thousand Kenyans to leave Kenya,
▶ 1:04:12go to Russia, end up in Ukraine uh fighting and the the structure just the logistics of that and um the influence campaign pain that that is. Are you familiar with that report? Could you speak about that? And and really the the the uh the necessity of us to be able to counter that work and assist the Kenyans in countering Russia in Kenya.
▶ 1:04:36Yes, Congressman, I agree. And it is disturbing how many Africans from across the continent are being recruited by Russia to fight in Ukraine. So, it's not solely a Kenyan problem. to the point in Kenya I agree the concern has been uh and I think it was highlighted in that New York Times article as well is that it's not been clear that they were recruited to go to Ukraine often using other reasons to recruit them whether for work or for other jobs uh not necessarily articulating the fact that they end up on the front lines in Ukraine.
▶ 1:05:05So one of those things that we have done to help counter that is just implement the truth by being able to inform other partners of what's happening uh has been very powerful. But this is not just disinformation. Them being told what they're going to do and then they're ending up in Ukraine, but that there's this infrastructure that that Russia has deployed and and a thousand out of Kenya is is pretty enormous.
▶ 1:05:28Um so you're you're up against a pretty enormous uh structure that Russia has has uh deployed within Kenya. uh Russia is using many different means in order to recruit uh folks from across the continent and you are correct. They do have uh the network in order to bring them back into uh Russia.
▶ 1:05:51Thank you, Secretary Zimmerman. First off, congratulations on your answers to the ranking member. They were excellent in the manner in which you handled those questions. Um the um in looking at the admiral's testimony, he indicates that ISIS has been moni marginalized um thanks to the Iraqi security forces and uh Kurdish Peshmerga. He's he speaks of some of the accomplishments that occurred.
▶ 1:06:18I'm concerned though, however, that when you look at the overall funding for counter ISIS trained equip funding, what the impact might be for Iraqi uh Kurdish allies. Could you speak for a moment as to our support for the Iraqi Kurdish allies and what this the support might be there?
▶ 1:06:37Congressman, thank you. We we have the greatest appreciation for our Iraqi Kurdish uh partners. There's it's hard to find a more willing uh capable group to to work alongside and and we welcome the uh support uh funding that that Congress has provided to uh continue that partnership.
▶ 1:06:55This has become uh particularly stark and I'll be I'll be uh maybe more general how I speak here but you know Operation Epic Fury has has um has uh shown that the the Shia militia groups in Iraq uh have a lot of agency and independence to act in in ways that are harmful to the United States which has only showcased how helpful the uh the Iraqi Kurdish partners are.
▶ 1:07:23The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes a gentleman from California, Mr. Gar Mendy.
▶ 1:07:28Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very much for attending this and your testimony and our appreciation for the hard work and the sacrifices being made by the men and women in our military as they operate uh in the Sententcom area. Mr. Zimmerman, uh the administration formally notified Congress on or about May 5th that hostilities against Iran had been terminated. Is that correct?
▶ 1:07:56My understanding is as you say that notification went out.
▶ 1:08:02You have a real difficult time answering questions directly, don't you? So it you notify that it was terminated.
▶ 1:08:11M. Correct.
▶ 1:08:13All right. Now, Admiral Cooper, have you reduced the state of preparedness for our troops in the region? Congressman, uh, consistent my with my responsibilities as a combatant commander, uh, I'm prepared to execute a broad range of contingencies where we sit today. We're executing a blockade and we're prepared for further direction depending on how, uh, negotiations go.
▶ 1:08:37So, the state of preparedness remains at its highest level.
▶ 1:08:42It does.
▶ 1:08:42Thank you. Uh, are American troops still in harm's way
▶ 1:08:47depending on a variety of contingencies? Are American forces defending against Iranian threats?
▶ 1:08:56When threatened, we always defend
▶ 1:08:59Did Sentcom fire on Iranian attackers running the blockade on May 6th and 8th?
▶ 1:09:05We fired on uh after going through a series of deescalation measures uh to get tankers to stop. Consistent with the blockade, we disabled those tankers.
▶ 1:09:14So, you did fire on Iranian tankers on May 6th and 8th.
▶ 1:09:18We disabled them. Yes, we we fired on them.
▶ 1:09:23And as a result of the fire, they were effectively disabled.
▶ 1:09:27Uh did the US launch strikes against Iranian military strikes sites on May
▶ 1:09:34So the United States uh forces in the in the execution of defensive mission in moving destroyers uh from the Arabian Gulf uh back into the Gulf of Oman were fired upon dozens of times. We defended ourselves and as as forces were fired upon by Iran and you fired back.
▶ 1:09:52That's exactly right.
▶ 1:09:53Thank you. Uh is is it your military assessment that hostilities have been ceased since April?
▶ 1:10:00We remain in a ceasefire.
▶ 1:10:02That's not my question. My question was military assessment that hostilities have ceased since April.
▶ 1:10:11My military assessment is the ceasefire has set the foundation for military hostilities to cease. Iran pushes it. So, the hostilities have continued.
▶ 1:10:20Well, Iran clearly attacked our ships uh as you described uh dozens of times. Yes, sir.
▶ 1:10:26I I'm really very very sorry for the two of you. You just cannot answer a question correctly and directly, but you're doing the best you can. Uh it's incredible to me that this department has such disregard for the Congress and the US Constitution that the US military forces are not still engaged in hostilities and still deployed against the war and ignoring the War Powers Act and the Constitution. I'm going to let it go at that.
▶ 1:10:54The fact of the matter is that hostilities continue. And I would like to enter into the record, Mr. chairman of 10 different press releases from the Department of Defense that
▶ 1:11:08typically discuss the continued hostilities. I'd like now to turn to Africa. Uh General Anderson, you indicated a 75% reduction of military support in Africa. Is that correct from your testimony?
▶ 1:11:25In the posture in West Africa? Yes, sir. uh is USID a critical element in the African strategy going forward?
▶ 1:11:36Sir, there is a role for targeted aid that supports security and stability that is part of the many tools that the government uses across
▶ 1:11:43USID available to do that exist does it?
▶ 1:11:48It does not exist today, sir. No.
▶ 1:11:50So, and is there a um famine in uh Sudan? uh conditions are becoming quite dire in Sudan when it comes to food support.
▶ 1:12:01Okay. The fact of the matter is that the US military question to you, can the US carry out its activities in Africa without the kind of support that USID was providing to the African people and African economies and communities? Sir, the military is still able to continue its execution of military objectives and military activities on the continent.
▶ 1:12:31Gentleman's time is expired. The chair now recognizes himself for some questions. And gentlemen, thanks again for today. Admiral Cooper, I want to begin with you and get your perspective on the Iranian regime's attacks against civilian targets both in the Gulf region and neighbors in the in the entire vicinity. Uh we know historically they've used proxies, proxies like Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, to maim, torture, and kill innocent civilians, including Americans.
▶ 1:13:01Uh we know that now the regime has blood directly on their hands and things that they've done most recently. And we we've seen that uh it's pretty alarming as to how they are escalating things within that realm. To me, it's pretty clear that the destabilizing force in the Middle East is Iran, and they intend to continue that. Uh there's also very distinct differences between how the United States operates and how Iran operates in this uh time of conflict in in that region.
▶ 1:13:31I wanted to though to rewind a little bit and go back to where things started and that was last December and get your perspective on how you were monitoring uh the anti-regime protests and efforts there in Iran. Uh what was your assessment of that? What did you what did you find and what did you see? And then how many civilians do you assess were killed or hurt in those counter efforts by the government against its civilians?
▶ 1:13:57Congressman, we'd assess uh that number to be in the tens of thousands of civilians uh killed by the regime.
▶ 1:14:03Okay. And what what was your assessment when you evaluated that back in December as far as what the Iranian government was doing against its civilians
▶ 1:14:11as things started in December? You could uh at the infancy of uh protests, you could be you could see um Iran initially the regime initially uh addressing this in the in the teens and and low hundreds eventually evolved by January into the killing of tens of
▶ 1:14:29Okay, very good. Let me ask too, since the conflict has begun, uh, how many drones and missiles has Iran launched and how many of those have targeted civilian sites and can you give us some examples of the civilian targets that have been struck by those drones and
▶ 1:14:45Yeah, Congressman, I think uh the specific number of drones and missiles are best addressed in in a classified form which follows this. I'll talk about there. But what I can say here is Iran give us orders of magnitude, hundreds,
▶ 1:14:58thousands. Okay. What I can say here is uh Iran deliberately targeted civilians in the Middle East at least a thousand times. We've seen many of this play out on TV. Restaurants in Bahrain, restaurants uh in neighborhoods in UAE, the same thing in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. We saw before our very eyes uh on TV. You you saw it yourself. Uh uh cluster munitions you going off over uh Tel Aviv targeting civilians. It was crystal clear.
▶ 1:15:25How many civilians do you estimate have been killed or casualties we'll call them in general which includes killed and injured by these attacks since uh combat operations have begun?
▶ 1:15:35At least 300 killed uh and injured, sir.
▶ 1:15:38Okay, very good. Do you believe that the regime's attacks on civilian targets are indiscriminate? Are they focused? Are they person uh purposeful? Do you do you see a commonality in the things that they're doing in in uh defining these targets and going after them? the the thousand attacks are were deliberate.
▶ 1:15:56Okay. Was there was there any rhyme or reason that you saw behind what Iran was doing and who they were targeting? Was there any purpose behind that or was it just indiscriminate?
▶ 1:16:07I see. I think you saw a terror regime executing terrorike attacks uh living up to their billing more than a thousand times. Uh the only rhyme or reason and consistency it was against innocent Let me ask this. You bring up innocent civilians and that I think is a critical point here. U you know the regime kind of talks both ways. Talks about wanting to to settle things and wanting to bring their country back to a stable state.
▶ 1:16:38Yet with them indiscriminately targeting innocent human lives, um the regime seems not to have any regard for for innocent civilians and is wanting to continue its theocracy there. Give me your perspective about where you think the regime has been when all this began back in December and where it is today. Has that has that place in their mindset changed based on this or are they still on the path of indiscriminately targeting civilians?
▶ 1:17:04They remain on the same path. Uh Congressman, we saw them kill tens of thousands of their own people and since the ceasefire, we've seen them hang dozens of people. Just yesterday, you saw the chief of police proudly announced that they arrested 6,500 Iranians for no reason.
▶ 1:17:21So, none of this has changed within the regime. They're still trying to suppress their own people, still trying to uh have that iron fist on their on their population there to keep them under control regardless of what happens
▶ 1:17:34I completely agree. Very good. With that, I'd yield back and now we'll go to Mr. Norcross.
▶ 1:17:40Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming here today. Um much discussion about the most relevant issue here that's the war in Iran and the reason why we're there or the reason listed. But I think we all can agree that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. That is almost at every beginning of a statement the first thing we talk about and certainly we understand that.
▶ 1:18:07So, Admiral Cooper, in your testimony, pages six and seven, you outline the assets that SECOM has destroyed in Iran. Your assessments that we have destroyed approximately 85% of the ballistic missiles, drones, and naval industrial base, preventing their ability to execute operations stunt their ability to reconstitute their force.
▶ 1:18:31Despite that assessment of degraded capabilities, what wasn't happening prior to this war is now happening and that's the straight of Harmoose being closed. Can you give us the difference between that assessment which you laid out to us and how the straits are now closed?
▶ 1:18:56Congressman, thank you very much for that. I think these are two two separate matters. There is an there is a linkage that I'd like to discuss in a closed forum for sure on with respect to their conventional capability. Uh if I zoom out and and directly to uh the ranking members point from a from a military strategy perspective, we absolutely derailed decades of what Iran was trying to achieve with their ballistic missiles, their nuclear program and the proxies. That's one piece of it.
▶ 1:19:23I think uh equally important is their ability to uh to build and reconstitute that's been eliminated. this will not so that part's been eliminated on the on the straight of hormuz itself sir to to your to your question I think there's several important factors here the blockade itself uh which we are controlling uh nothing is going in or going out on the straight there are a lot of comp there's it's a complex environment the chairman the joint chief characterized it this way Iran's capability is significantly degraded
▶ 1:19:53their voice is very loud
▶ 1:19:55so so why is it closed
▶ 1:19:58uh as we sit here today there low volumes of ships that are going in and out factors. Uh we had two US flag ships go out just last week. Uh
▶ 1:20:08if you look at your gas prices, nobody's thinking that straight of Harmoose is open. That is the real measure that we go with. But let me go on. Excuse me. In the wake of Operation Midnight Hammer, Congress, House Armed Services Committee, and most importantly, American people were assured that Iran's nuclear capabilities and their mouth were completely destroyed. The president's own words completely and totally obliterated.
▶ 1:20:38This was why that operation was done. if it is completely destroyed, how is it that the issue of a nuclear weapon is still the number one focus and we're not addressing that?
▶ 1:20:55Uh, Congress, I think, uh, anything regarding the Iranian nuclear program is best placed in a in a class.
▶ 1:21:00Well, these are words that the president have used.
▶ 1:21:03So, if it has been destroyed, why are we in this war? Because destroyed means it's not coming back. Your actual publications talk about the term destroyed that it cannot be reused. It is completely useless. So if it has been destroyed, why is a nuclear weapon the number one issue
▶ 1:21:25again? Sir, I think anything regarding Iranian nuclear weapons capability is best discussed in a classified form and I'm happy to talk about it. So I have to assume by that statement that either a it has not been completely destroyed and that's why we have to go back in a classified and I get that because if it was we wouldn't be at war without yield back.
▶ 1:21:51The gentleman yields back. The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott, is now
▶ 1:21:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I'm going to read this just for the benefit of the American citizens and others that are watching. And this is from uh Dan Zimmerman's testimony. Uh the center of Islamic terrorism has shifted from the Middle East to Africa. Uh there's another statement in here that says Islamic terrorists in Africa are both capable and intent of striking the US homeland. Is that correct, Mr.
▶ 1:22:20Correct. Um General Anderson, uh your statement, terrorism remains the most acute threat in Africa. The US Africam's area of responsibility has become the center of gravity for global jihadism with West Africa accounting for over 51% of global terror related deaths in 2024.
▶ 1:22:38Uh ISIS, ISIS, West Africa, JNIM, um pretty powerful paragraph written there that I hope uh some people will um take heart to. Um, what can Africa, as you know, I spent a fair amount of time on the continent between this committee and another one, not do today that it could do five years ago? And what is being done to correct that?
▶ 1:23:09Uh, Congressman, I think the best example I can give is that five years ago when I was commander of special operations command Africa, we risk rescued American hostage Philip in 96 hours largely because we had access placement and relationships. Uh, today Kevin Ry out is on day 209 of his captivity u because we do no longer have the same level of uh relationships and access that we had before.
▶ 1:23:35uh we are working to to rebuild that access and engage with those folks uh in those different countries to address the common threat.
▶ 1:23:42So we lost air base 101 and 2011 that did tremendous damage to our ISR cover. Um I went to Niger I spoke with I know Minister Tumba and several others. Um and what was relayed to me is that they didn't appreciate the lecture that they got from uh Secretary Fay and Dr.
▶ 1:24:02Wallander uh at that time and and and that is why we were um asked to leave uh Niger is that because we did not respect the sovereignty of that country under the previous administration. Is that your understanding?
▶ 1:24:21Congressman, I I can't speak to that exact meeting. I can address that sovereignty is a very important uh aspect to all the African countries. It it it was made very clear to me that uh when the United States was a guest in a country that that we did not uh need to think that we could come into a conference room in a leadership circle and lecture them about what we would and would not do um in in their in their country.
▶ 1:24:49And um I'm I'm concerned about the loss of the relationships that occurred because of the arrogance and the lecturing that that occurred um many years ago and I do think Secretary Riio is trying to uh regain that credibility with those countries. I was in Burkina Faso not too long ago. Um the leadership in that country was very pointed. They want trade, not aid, which I think is where the administration is headed.
▶ 1:25:17And that they had just expelled the French and they were not going to trade one master for another master is literally word for word word um the way it was put to me from the leadership of Bkina Faso. Is that is that consistent with what you hear? They are not going to trade one master for
▶ 1:25:35Congressman, that is consistent with what I hear across the region. So with the um with the loss of access in Niger and the growing Russian influence in the Sahel, what are the most urgent basing and overflight gaps and what authorities or resources do you need to restore operational reach?
▶ 1:25:52Uh Congressman, the biggest concern I have is the growing black hole of intelligence in the Sahel. With the withdrawal of the French and much of the European partners, as you mentioned, our withdrawal from Nger, it is very difficult for us to provide adequate INW.
▶ 1:26:06So what we are looking at is investments in non-traditional ISR capabilities as well as uh traditional intelligence surveillance in order to layer these and that includes open- source as well as exquisite and so building that network in order to illuminate uh what's happening in the Sahel is our top priority.
▶ 1:26:23General Anderson in my last three seconds I want to read one other sentence from your u statement. The PRC sees Africa as their second continent and critical to their economic and military future. Uh we as we as Americans need the relationships with the continent of Africa. The uh the critical minerals um as well as the ability to fight terrorism is contingent upon our relationships over there. I have tremendous faith in you, General Anderson, and I look forward to working with you to restore that access. I
▶ 1:26:54Chair now recognize a gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Molton.
▶ 1:26:59Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Admiral Cooper, you keep using the term significantly Last summer, we were told that Iran's nuclear weapons program was obliterated. Can you clarify the distinction between obliterated and significantly degraded?
▶ 1:27:24Congressman, again, I I think appropriate uh to talk about anything regarding the Iranian nuclear program.
▶ 1:27:28No, no, I'm not asking you to talk about the Iran nuclear program. I'm asking you to talk about English language. What's the difference between obliterated and significantly degraded?
▶ 1:27:36Are they the same?
▶ 1:27:40Congressman, anything regarding the nuclear program?
▶ 1:27:42I'm not asking you to talk about the nuclear program, Admiral. I'm asking you to answer a question that applies to a lot a lot of things beyond the nuclear program. You've also said that their ballistic missile program was significantly degraded. What does that mean? The specific numbers are best uh as you know from your own
▶ 1:27:57President Trump's own national security strategy which he signed in December five months ago used the exact same phrase significantly degraded. So if this was true back then five months ago then why did we start this war? Was he lying to us then? Congressman, from a military perspective, regarding
▶ 1:28:20Are you familiar with General Are you familiar with General West Morland?
▶ 1:28:23I'm I'm very familiar. Congressman,
▶ 1:28:25he's well known for talking about body
▶ 1:28:28Now, when I think about you in this war, I always think about how you always got up there and would say everything's going according to plan. So, so let me just ask, Admiral, where was closing the straight in the
▶ 1:28:41I'm happy to discuss the specific operational aspects. Uh, Did you not anticipate that? Do you not think that Iran could do that?
▶ 1:28:49Or was that part of the plan here,
▶ 1:28:51Congressman? Uh, as the as
▶ 1:28:53for 250 years, the Navy has kept sea lanes open and free. Under every previous president, the Straight of Hormuz has been open. So why is it closed under your watch,
▶ 1:29:03Congressman? I've traveled through the the Straight of Hormuz probably a hundred times. I'm intimately familiar with it as a combatant commission.
▶ 1:29:09Why is it closed? If you're so familiar with it, do you not anticipate that Iran? I
▶ 1:29:13answer the question if I may with respect with with kind with all due
▶ 1:29:17My responsibility as a combatant commander is to lay out all the options uh present those to the secretary and the president. They make policy level
▶ 1:29:25So you presented the operational the operational aspect.
▶ 1:29:28So admiral you presented the you presented the reality that Iran might close a straight
▶ 1:29:33to the president and the secretary of defense. anything that I discuss uh with with respect to uh
▶ 1:29:39okay well let's go back to the plan where was begging China for help opening the straight part of the plan
▶ 1:29:47so from a military perspective
▶ 1:29:49there are multiple reports now public that Iran has already reconstituted many of its bombed out missile sites was that part of the plan too
▶ 1:29:57those reports are inaccurate
▶ 1:29:59okay I will actually give you credit for regime change I know that was part of the man, you've replaced an 86-year-old in failing health with a fought while against producing nuclear weapons with a more hardline guy in his 50s who in case he wasn't hardline enough, you killed his immediate family. Was that part of the plan? Is that the regime change you wanted?
▶ 1:30:21Congressman, we were given very specific military objectives to degrade Iran's power projecting capability. That's exactly what we did.
▶ 1:30:28Okay. So in the course of doing that, you also lifted the oil sanctions on Iran, giving them about 14 to 16 billion dollars. They can buy a lot of ballistic missiles for that. Was that part of the plan? Lifting oil sanctions on them in the course of the conflict. They kill 14 Americans, we lift oil sanctions on
▶ 1:30:49As you know, sir, the US military does not lift sanctions. That's a policy
▶ 1:30:53Okay. I'm just trying to figure out where it was part of the plan. on March 5th, you know, you talked about how you have you built the most air missile defense or or air defense system in the Middle East and yet well into the war you had to ask Ukraine for help with defenses against drones? That's not accurate.
▶ 1:31:11Okay. What about oil prices, gas prices? oil prices going up 56% part of the
▶ 1:31:20Congressman, as you know, from a military perspective, we don't deal on oil and gas prices. I defer to the appropriate authorities within the
▶ 1:31:26Okay. So, so, so since none of that seems to be part of the plan, what's the plan now? What what's the plan now to actually win this war? Because it feels like we're losing. We don't have a nuclear deal. We don't have the straight open. The president has called for unconditional surrender. Is that part of the plan,
▶ 1:31:43Congressman? We achieved all our military objectives. We're presently in a ceasefire. Uh we're executing a blockade and we're prepared for a broad range of contingencies. Well, it doesn't seem to be going well and I would like to know how many more Americans we have to ask to die for this mistake. Do you know? I think it's an entirely inappropriate statement from you, sir. With all time with all due resp.
▶ 1:32:07Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Admiral Cooper, Israel, Jordan, and our partners in the Gulf demonstrate historic capabilities and cooperation to defend themselves and enable Operation Epic Fury. This trust was not built overnight. What role does Sentcom's long-running military partnership and security cooperation play to achieve these operational So, our partnerships in the region over the last several months from the miltomill perspective have been dramatically enhanced.
▶ 1:32:34I'd particularly like to cite the the shoulder-to-shoulder operations with five of the six GCC countries uh with whom we have Patriot uh batteries assigned not just in not just figuratively but literally in these countries in particular Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait uh employ their patriots to protect Americans. I think that's the greatest sign of what integration looks like and what strong partnership looks like.
▶ 1:33:00Do you think that our uh NATO allies and European allies are safer because of Operation Epic Fury Fury?
▶ 1:33:09Yes, sir. I do.
▶ 1:33:10Uh I don't know whether you can say whether or not you're disappointed in the lack of response and cooperation from our NATO allies, but maybe Mr. Zimmerman would opine on that.
▶ 1:33:22Uh thank you, Congressman. Um the we can talk more about in the next session. Certainly there we have been uh very eager for our certain NATO partners to be much quicker to step up and and lend a hand. We have gotten support from some of our NATO allies. That's part of the that's part of the story. Uh but in some cases it was disappointingly uh late to
▶ 1:33:46But when it came to Russia and Ukraine, they were very pleased that we were uh directly involved. Correct.
▶ 1:33:52Very pleased.
▶ 1:33:53Yes. Uh, Admiral Cooper, you know, you stated in your opening statement pretty clearly. Do do you think that Iran's regime is stronger today than it was before Epic Fury?
▶ 1:34:04Congressman, by every measure of national power, Iran is significantly
▶ 1:34:08Okay. So, their their military is significantly degraded. Can they project power like they could eight weeks ago?
▶ 1:34:18They cannot, sir.
▶ 1:34:18Okay. And uh do you think that uh information that they receive and this may go back to Mr. Zimmerman but the the information that you're hearing in this committee today the one thing I love about armed services were very part bipartisan were on team America but uh Mr. Zimmerman do you think that the Iranian regime pays attention to US
▶ 1:34:48Okay. Do you know ju this is my opinion but I'm hearing people in this room today and certainly on news outlets like CNN and other leftleaning uh outlets that seem to almost be rooting against America from what Admiral Cooper describes and what our military has achieved which they should be getting nothing but accolades from this entire committee as well as the entire country. the operations that they have uh undergone in Venezuela with Midnight Hammer, with Epic Fury.
▶ 1:35:18There shouldn't be an American uh in on this continent that isn't proud of what our military did. But yet, what we're hearing in the news and what we're hearing in this room seems to very much weigh on politics. the fact that we're talking about uh gas prices when just less than five years ago they were over $5 under Biden and under Obama they had a a sustained high price for longer than any other president.
▶ 1:35:42Uh is it helpful to have this type of opposition uh in terms of uh military success in the Middle East right now uh going on when we're trying to to you know finish degrading what was probably our third biggest adversary.
▶ 1:36:03Congressman, the good news is that the president has been very clear about his resolve to bring a solution to this conflict that is that will advance US interests and the Iranians pay attention to that too.
▶ 1:36:16These things don't always happen exactly as planned and there are things that change, right, Admiral Cooper? In terms of the timing, uh I think uh when Obama uh went after Gaddafi, uh it ended up taking seven months. We're we're a few months into this. You've already said that the Iranian military, the regime, their military capability has been substantially reduced. Their nuclear capability has been substantially reduced. Their ability to achieve a nuclear weapon has been substantially res reduced.
▶ 1:36:45So all of these things would indicate that Operation Epic Fury has achieved uh a great success to this point. Would you
▶ 1:36:54I would sir. We met all our military objectives. And just on the point of timing, uh we conducted military operations for 38 days and now we're 40 or so plus since the ceasefire is in effect. So we've actually been in the ceasefire longer than we were conducting active kinetic operations.
▶ 1:37:09Gentleman's time's expired. Chair, now recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Um, you know, it's interesting to hear that during Biden and Obama, there were challenges. Gas prices were high, and that was terrible back then, but now it's okay. Now, it's okay. Uh, talking about partisanship, I I think it's important to understand what's being said.
▶ 1:37:39I want to start by expressing my condolences to the families of the 13 service members who lost their lives in this war and of the two service members who passed away during the training exercises earlier earlier this month in Africa. Admiral Cooper, I also want to thank you and all the men and women serving under you for your service to our nation during this difficult time and a misguided war. We are quickly approaching three months of deeply unpopular war.
▶ 1:38:07A war that still has no clear objectives and in in sight. A war that is costing billions of taxpayer dollars. A war that is driving up the cost of living for every American, especially at the pump. This war was not authorized or budgeted. Which means the department will be asking Congress for a supplemental funding package on top of the proposed $1.5 trillion defense budget for fiscal year 2027.
▶ 1:38:37Secretary Zimmerman, we know the cost of oil has gone up globally with some estimates over 55%. How much has this increase in oil cost Sentcom directly over the duration of Operation Epic Fury and now into Operation Project Freedom?
▶ 1:38:59Congressman, I would be happy to take that question back and get you uh as accurate an answer as I can. Is there any percentage in an increase of cost?
▶ 1:39:09I think I'll have to give to you on
▶ 1:39:11I don't think that anyone is questioning that Iran's military capabilities have been severely degraded over the course of this campaign. Yet, despite the intense bombing campaign and the apparent eradication of Iran's navy, they are still able to blockade the Straight of Hermoose and hold targets around the region at risk. Admiral Cooper, do we possess the military capability to open the Straight of Hormuse against a military that has been severely weakened?
▶ 1:39:41Congressman, I wouldn't want to talk about any specific capability, but broadly speaking, we have uh we are well postured uh to execute military operations across virtually any
▶ 1:39:51but the straighter Hermuse is still closed. Uh, Congressman, uh, the straighter move Hormuz in the last couple of weeks has have had multiple instances of ships passing through, including US destroyers, US flagships. And just last night,
▶ 1:40:02Secretary Zimmerman, earlier this month, there were reports that the Civil Military Coordination Center or the CMCC was set to be shut down. The administration denied these reports. Can you confirm whether the CMCC is actually closed or there are a plan that it will be absorbed into another entity? Uh, Congressman, my understanding is no final decision has been made along those lines.
▶ 1:40:29And the thing I would like to say is that first of all, as has been said before, no one does more to protect civilians in a in a wartime scenario or in a conflict scenario than the United States. And the we are moving uh if I may borrow a phrase actually from from ADM, we are moving from uh compliance to culture. the principles that that are inherent in protecting civilians are now baked into our processes in a way that hadn't been before.
▶ 1:40:57Let me let me continue. How much is the CMCC currently overseeing the distribution of humanitarian aid into Gaza? What are the current obstacles to aid delivery and how would the closing of the CMCC affect aid delivery?
▶ 1:41:12Can I defer to you on that?
▶ 1:41:14Let me defer to Admiral Cooper on that. So the CMCC plays an indispensable role in both stabilization and the coordination of the delivery of humanitarian assistance. Uh since its inception, more than 70 countries and international organizations are in the
▶ 1:41:28Amro, what are they doing right now?
▶ 1:41:30They are helping to coordinate the delivery of humanitarian assistance uh and keep the uh ceasefire in effect which has been successful for the last 7
▶ 1:41:37How much aid has been delivered in the last 6 months? Uh, I can come back with the exact number, but back in December, the IPC, who is the oversight organization for aid, said that famine is no longer a threat in Gaza. I think it it's a reflection of US service members absolute commitment to this mission, which has gone extremely well.
▶ 1:41:56Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. I thank the gentleman for yielding. Chair and I recognize gentleman from Mississippi, General Kelly.
▶ 1:42:06I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank the witnesses for being here. I just uh at some point the politics has to stop on this committee. Uh when they say kill them with kindness, take them out, 86 them, blow them away, nuke them, destroy them, that's hyperbole. When President Trump says that it's an actionable term, it's either one or the other. It's not both.
▶ 1:42:33And to use it when it is convenient politically is not right for either party, for either side. I will just say when the president said give no order, did he give a lawful order to the military to give no quarter or is it just a tweet or something that he said? Did he give anybody sitting at that table a lawful order to give the enemy no quarter?
▶ 1:42:57No, sir.
▶ 1:42:59No, sir.
▶ 1:43:00Did either of you interpret any tweet, talk on TV, anything else? Did you interpret that as the right for you to give the enemy no quarter?
▶ 1:43:14No, sir.
▶ 1:43:15No, because it's hyperbole. It means we're going to tell you everything necessary to win this war and nothing I now want to talk to you, General Anderson, about the Buckeye H3 Delta platform that's reportedly flying in Africam. Is the data being collected actable and used today in Africcom, SOCOM and other places around the globe?
▶ 1:43:38Yes, Congressman,
▶ 1:43:40the platform does pretty well and working in with other platforms that we have to help build a picture, a common operating picture for you and Africa. Is that correct?
▶ 1:43:50That's correct.
▶ 1:43:51Okay. Admiral Cooper and General Anderson, how significant is the difference between having a forward deployed argu already in theater versus relying on a swords fur arriving 7 to 10 days later.
▶ 1:44:05So the argu indispensable role across across the 20 plus mission set mission sets that it has. Uh we see the value as we sit here right now enforcing the blockade. They're playing a predominant role in that enforcement. And and I want to talk a little bit about oil prices, too. There's been a lot to do. In June of 2022, the average US gas price was $52 a gallon. $5 and which is much higher than it is today.
▶ 1:44:34During much of the previous administrations, not just Democratic, Democratic approach. It has been higher than it is right now, but now it seems to be an issue. I don't like high gas prices. I think consumers do not like gas. Do you feel like your military objectives and your political objectives are doing everything they can to end this as soon as possible to get those prices down even though they're not the highest they've ever been?
▶ 1:45:02Yes, Congressman.
▶ 1:45:05I also want to talk about I heard one of the further members talk about us lifting sanctions on Iranian oil. Um during the early days of the Ukraine operations, did we not lift embargos over Russian oil to allow them to fuel their war machine? And in fact, did it not allow them to create more weapons systems and manufacturing to go after Ukrainians than all of the aid combined that we gave them as NATO and UN and everyone else?
▶ 1:45:35Did not the oil revenues that Russia was getting because we allowed them to flow it into Europe was it not greater than the amount of aid that we gave Ukraine? Congressman, I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, but certainly the Russian oil revenues are, you know, it's a huge part of their economy, huge revenue, and they benefit tremendously from that and can turn it into war fighting capability.
▶ 1:46:00And admiral and general as a combatant commander, do you feel more comfortable with the US being an oil and energy exporter as rather than relying on foreign sources, many who are not our friends, uh having to supplies us in order to conduct combat Sir access is always important and the quicker the access and the more direct is always the best and it comes if it comes right from America that's simply the quickest way to get it that's great
▶ 1:46:30and in my last 35 seconds just very briefly how important is the state partnership program ACO across both of your regions
▶ 1:46:40congressman that I think the state partnership program is the greatest strategic investment we've made as a department since the cold war and is absolutely critical to our uh force projection and our engagement on the
▶ 1:46:50I halfway agree with you, but also IMAT and training those foreign leaders here at US schools. That's also pretty important. Wouldn't you agree?
▶ 1:46:58It is one of the most desired uh things from our partners and it's one that has the longest term most influence.
▶ 1:47:03I yel back, Mr. Chairman. Good points. Uh chair, I recognize a gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Hulahan.
▶ 1:47:10Thank you, Mr. chair and uh I want to start the conversation reiterating what many of my colleagues have said which is my deepest condolences go out to the families of the 13 service members who have lost their lives and the two who lost their lives in the training exercise as well. My enormous gratitude to all of you who wear the uniform for your service and to Susan and to all of the families who have served that in that special way that only those of us who have been a family member understand.
▶ 1:47:37My mother's name is Susan and she was a Navy brat and a Navy wife. Um, we are each here in service in different ways. Uh, we should assume the best of one another and we should assume that each and every one of us is a deeply patriotic person. You should assume that my questions come from that. My oversight is my duty, my constitutional obligation. There is a lot of terminology in warfare as well uh that we've been speaking about here.
▶ 1:48:04Some are very uh appropriately recognized terms and I appreciate Admiral that you recognized in your opening terms the law of armed conflict. We also spoke about the military terminology and definition of blockade as well. Admiral, my question start with you. Would you characterize the Iranian regime's perception of the war as them being in an existential war where the regime's continued survival would be considered to be at risk?
▶ 1:48:32Congressman, first thank you for the for the warm words. Uh I think best characteriz best characterizing uh Iran's view right now would fall under an intelligence umbrella that I' I'd be happy to talk about in a classified
▶ 1:48:43Do you feel the regime feels as though they're being threatened existentially by this war?
▶ 1:48:48Again, I think there's some very specific intelligence on this.
▶ 1:48:50I I would look forward to that, but I feel as though this is an easy question. How would you characterize our approach to the war? Is it existential or is it perhaps a limited war by the definition of limited war? I would characterize things as we sit here right now as being a in a ceasefire uh with you us prepared to operate uh and execute a range of contingencies.
▶ 1:49:12Have we been involved in a limited war with Iran?
▶ 1:49:16I think by by definition 38 days would constitute a limited war.
▶ 1:49:20Thank you. Thank you. So if we are in a limited war and they believe themselves to be in an existential crisis and I look forward to the conversation in classified that is significant because we have a misunderstanding a misalignment of what it is that our goals are. Uh it makes me think honestly of Vietnam where my father served where the military appropriately amazing military singular military shared enemies killed ground taken bombs dropped but we still lost that war. My father served in that war.
▶ 1:49:50the political end goal was badly crafted. You've struck 13,000 targets, 80% of the Iranian defense miss uh services, 90% of the Navy. You've talked about all of these issues, but Secretary Zimmerman, in the negotiations, why does it feel like we're losing this war? Why does it feel like we're heading towards something that is not necessarily a victory of any kind?
▶ 1:50:16Congresswoman, I I can't sh say I share that feeling. Uh the negotiations as you note are are ongoing and as a department we stand ready to backs stop those
▶ 1:50:26What does success look like for the president? What would winning look like? What are we waiting for in terms of
▶ 1:50:33I'll defer to the White House on the specific uh aims of those uh negotiations. I think as has been stated clearly there um the president is looking for a long-term solution to secure the interests of the United States and uh reduce the Iranian
▶ 1:50:53I just worry that we're in a position where we are at a stalemate. Two blockades don't make a right and that's I think where we are right now. I'll turn to another question with my remaining time. Open reporting uh source reporting says that there's about 50,000 service members in the Middle East. If you had 9,000 fewer of them or 18% fewer, would that make your job more
▶ 1:51:18We would have less flexibility for a range of contingencies.
▶ 1:51:21So it would be more difficult.
▶ 1:51:22Yes, it would be. Of course.
▶ 1:51:24How have our forces in your opinion fared thus far in the war? Have you had any issue with their dedication, with their performance or their achievement in their duties? Are our forces meeting the standard?
▶ 1:51:34Our forces are exceeding the standard. My best characterization is they establish themselves as the latest, greatest generation.
▶ 1:51:40Thank you. I agree. Mr. Zimmerman, 18% of our service members are women. The admiral just testified that 18% decrease in personnel would make it harder for the mission to get done and that all of his forces, including the women, are meeting the standard, exceeding the standard. In fact, I would ask perhaps someone, perhaps you, sir, to talk to the Secretary of Defense and let him know that we already have the data that we already know the answer to whether women in combat can serve and serve appropriately. There are no further studies required. Thank you and I yield
▶ 1:52:10Gentle lady yields back. Chair now gentleman from Guam, Mr. Moan.
▶ 1:52:16Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our panel. I truly appreciate your hard work and your dedication to our nation and and taking care of the American people. I I really appreciate you and believe in what you're doing. Uh Admiral, you in your written statement, you talked of how we're doing with with the situation, but you also talked on how we can maintain this from not continuing on a long-term solution.
▶ 1:52:45I looked at it as in with burden shifting talking with our allies on how they can become more active and investment especially into the foreign military sales uh burden shifting that would help um us maintain this uh freedom that you are establishing now with the winds that you're getting um our Guam played a critical role also in in your area as well with midnight hammer as a decoy boy in
▶ 1:53:15in the situation and I see this as also the how we're using our first and second island chain as as our allies in the Indopaccom as you have as we have the allies in in centercom that you're working with too and and also with um affording them the foreign military sales as well and protecting our oceans.
▶ 1:53:44Do you do you feel that this should also be a priority for Indoacific by prioritizing this their defense spending uh to facilitate the administration's burden and sharing priority as you have advocated for centercom partners?
▶ 1:54:02Sir, just just a note on on burden sharing in the central region. Uh we're we're past the concept. They have been serving side by side defending Americans over the course of of multiple months. We couldn't be prouder. They are all eager to assume a greater responsibility for their own defense. They have bought $320 billion dollars versus of American weapons. Uh that number alone would be the second largest defense budget in the world behind our own. So they're eager, they're well trained, they've proven themselves in combat by defending Americans.
▶ 1:54:30I think that's a fantastic model that could be used uh in any theater. And would you agree they are by investing in uh US platforms and weapons that's the best investment they can do uh by increasing their military
▶ 1:54:43It's crystal clear to all our partners that American weapons and systems are the best in the world.
▶ 1:54:49Okay. I I thank you for that. And I'm also hoping that uh Taiwan was quick to uh purchase the foreign uh foreign military sales and are um I'm hoping they can get what they purchase as soon as possible as well. And moving on then speaking on munitions, uh it's been stated uh Iran is they developed their military deterrence with conventional shield their missiles so ballistic missiles.
▶ 1:55:19So they can be allowed to continue the development of their nuclear program which you successfully put aside. Uh but also in our epic fury on how we did that is we used our ammunition So with the current stockpile we have now are you concerned about our own conventional shield to protect uh Centriccom and especially the Indopaccom and ask you what can Congress do to help support you?
▶ 1:55:49Congressman, I have no concerns about munition supply. We are we are well supplied and well postured for a range of contingencies uh to protect Americans and uh execute uh other operations as directed. I'd really defer to my my colleague Admiral Paparo on uh anything Pacific. But what I'll also say is the United States military can move munitions and and uh platforms like no other military in the world. If our civilian leadership decides to rep prioritize efforts, we'd be able to mu move people, munitions, planes, you name it. very very quickly.
▶ 1:56:19Excellent to know. Thank Thank you. Um finally the last question on readiness. We have the USS Ford returned home after 11 months. Uh this extension had some negative effects on the maintenance of and what they had to go through for the ship to be always ready. Um do you think operation tempo uh could be affected in centercom uh because of this?
▶ 1:56:44And also do you think this will affect uh the important importancy that uh for steady to deter aggression in the Indopaccom since we overextended the Ford?
▶ 1:56:57That's right. First I'd like to honor the the crew of the Ford for a remarkable deployment. Their their service during combat operations appropriately recognized by the president uh I I think is is just an outstanding sense of just what the people achieved. In terms of the effect from a global perspective, I'd really defer to policy on that. in terms of where we are in Sentcom. We have all the people, resources, ships, planes necessary to execute any mission.
▶ 1:57:19Gentleman's time's expired. Chair now recognizes a gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crow.
▶ 1:57:24Thank you, Chairman. Um, Admiral Cooper, I'd like to start with you. Uh, does the word declare mean to make a statement openly or formally? That's what the dictionary says. It says, would you would you stipulate to declare, sir, I I think statement openly and publicly formally. Yes.
▶ 1:57:47Okay. Great. Are you familiar with the DoD law of war manual?
▶ 1:57:51I am, sir.
▶ 1:57:52You've studied it throughout your decades in service?
▶ 1:57:54I have, sir.
▶ 1:57:55Um, and does the law of war manual prohibit certain actions?
▶ 1:58:00Uh, of course. It it it defines legal.
▶ 1:58:02It does. Pretty basic question.
▶ 1:58:04Does it also prohibit saying certain I'd have to dig into the details, but there are certain I'm certain that it does, but uh Okay.
▶ 1:58:14And I I I take that for the record.
▶ 1:58:15I will. Okay. So, how about this? Section 5.4.7. Are you familiar with that section? Probably not off the top of your head.
▶ 1:58:22Not off the top of my head.
▶ 1:58:23I'll read it for you,
▶ 1:58:24Uh it says, the title of it is this prohibition against declaring that no quarter being be given. So, it says you can't say something,
▶ 1:58:41that's uh I I I'll go go with this uh
▶ 1:58:45Pretty basic.
▶ 1:58:46Yes, sir.
▶ 1:58:46Okay, let me read it. It is forbidden to declare that no quarter will be given. This means that it is prohibited order that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees such as unprivileged belligerent will be summarily executed. Moreover, moreover, it is also prohibited to conduct hostilities on the basis that there will there shall be no survivors or to threaten the adversary with the denial of quarter.
▶ 1:59:15This rule is based on both humanitarian and military considerations. This rule also applies during non- international armed
▶ 1:59:24Does that make sense to you?
▶ 1:59:26It's it's it's clear from a from a US military perspective, we follow the law of armed conflict. And so you would follow this section too.
▶ 1:59:34The US military follows the law.
▶ 1:59:35Correct. So you would you would never utter you would never declare o state openly and publicly that no quarter being given because our own law of war manual prohibit prohibits it does it
▶ 1:59:46I I have never made a declaration.
▶ 1:59:48You haven't.
▶ 1:59:50Does the does the law of war manual prohibit it?
▶ 1:59:54I'll take that for the record. Uh but I
▶ 1:59:56I just read it to you. I I just read it to you.
▶ 1:59:59Yes, sir.
▶ 1:59:59You're a combatant commander. You're one of our most senior military officers with tens of thousands of service members under your command. Does the law of war manual state that it it is prohibited to utter to declare that no quarter be given?
▶ 2:00:15It prohibits a large number of things. It will follow. I just read the provision to you.
▶ 2:00:22I just literally read the provision to you. Does it prohibit you or anyone else from declaring that no quarter be given? I just read it to you.
▶ 2:00:31We will follow everything that's in the
▶ 2:00:34Answer the question, Admiral Cooper. You have tens of thousands of service members under your command. I literally just read a provision from the law of war manual. Our own manual. Will you not just say what I just read to you?
▶ 2:00:45I will say that we will follow the law of armed conflict to the tea.
▶ 2:00:49This is this is this is just unbelievable to me.
▶ 2:00:52I find the same thing, sir. This is just unbelievable to me.
▶ 2:00:55You follow the law of armed comply.
▶ 2:00:58You have tens of thousands of service members under your command. I literally verbatim just read a provision from our own law of war manual and you will refuse to say what that provision says. Will you will you agree that it is prohibited under our own manual that you and all the people under your command are obligated to follow to declare that no quarter be given?
▶ 2:01:23I will I will agree consistent with my constitutional responsibility to follow the law of armed conflict to the tea and I expect everyone working for me to do
▶ 2:01:31This is not lead this is not leadership. This is not leadership to to not be able to say something as basic. The people, the men and women who we represent, who are under your command deserve,
▶ 2:01:44Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, I object. This is a personal attack. This is unfair and appreciate very much as a
▶ 2:01:52This is well within the purview. This is well within the purview of my questioning. This gentleman's time. He's
▶ 2:01:58reclaim my time.
▶ 2:01:59Can I reclaim some additional time?
▶ 2:02:01I'm going to give you some extra time. Go ahead.
▶ 2:02:04It's our job to make sure the law is being followed. That is literally the obligation of this Congress. I I read to you a provision of our own law of war manual and all I want you to say is what the provision says that it is prohibited. It is prohibited. This is the title. This is what the title says to declare that no quarter be given.
▶ 2:02:22I will follow the law to the tea and expect everyone to do the same.
▶ 2:02:27This is extremely disappointing. Our service members deserve far better than this. I yield back.
▶ 2:02:32Gentleman yields back. I want to make it clear that when a member is recognized, it is the member's time. They can make a speech with their time if they want to. They can ask a question with their time if they want to. They can do a little of both. They can try to ask the witness leading questions. It does not mean the witness has to answer the way they want. The witness is in charge of their answers. The member may or may not like their answers, but you cannot compel the witness to give the answer you want them to give.
▶ 2:03:03But having said that, the member can try to ask leading questions if they want to, and it may be bothersome to other members the way they're doing it, but it's their time. With that, uh, chair now recognizes a gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Van Orton.
▶ 2:03:19Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to read a quote from the chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff. Um, the procedures were correctly followed and it was a righteous strike. Um, that was General Mark Millie talking about the Hellfire missile that killed a family of 10 in Kabool.
▶ 2:03:42And the Department of Defense a reality until they were forced to admit it. And they did that because they didn't conduct a thorough investigation and they lied to the American public. So, we must actually take the time to do a thorough investigation of what took um overseas. Mr. Zimmerman, are you a political
▶ 2:04:12you are. Admiral, it's good to see you, Mass Chief. General, sorry, Major. Admiral, are you a political appointee?
▶ 2:04:20No, sir.
▶ 2:04:21General, are you a political appointee? appointed by the president to serve as a combatant commander.
▶ 2:04:28Okay. But you're not a political appointee. Okay. Is there a way that we could potentially identify a political appointee verse an active duty member of the military at this table? Is there some way that we could just like look and go, I'm guessing Mr. Zimmerman is a political appointee and that you two are active duty members of the military. Is there a way we could do that,
▶ 2:04:48Mr. Zimmerman?
▶ 2:04:49Congressman, my kids have pointed out that I am by far the the least impressive looking member at the table.
▶ 2:04:54Right. We could we could I mean we could just say I don't want to we could we could potentially say that there's an easy way to identify a political appointee versus an active duty member of the military. And I think it's wholly inappropriate uh to ask active duty members of the United States military to answer political questions because that's not what you're here to do.
▶ 2:05:21And when my colleagues berate active duty members of the United States military to try to demand that they answer political questions, it's wholly inappropriate and it's inexcusable. And when we are seeking different offices than we are in currently and we're trying to make splashes for television, um that's what you get. So I want to discuss something very serious.
▶ 2:05:47Uh, Ranking Member Smith and Chairman Rogers recently gave every member of this committee a memo saying that there was an undisclosed uh, excuse me, an unauthorized disclosure of classified material and it was by a member of this committee and I think I know who was doing this. So when I'm asked by the press, am I offended that only the gang of eight was informed about Midnight Hammer?
▶ 2:06:14to say no because quite frankly the there are several members of this committee that have proven to not be uh capable of maintaining classified material and secrets that safeguard our nation. And we are not capable of doing our congressional oversight if we cannot be exposed to classified information.
▶ 2:06:45I feel completely uncomfortable with members of this committee asking you questions that could potentially hazard our military. And I think right now, as opposed to sending a memo around, restating what is the obvious, I believe that the the Department of Justice should be actively investigating uh members of this committee for the criminal unauthorized disclosure of classified material. I take that very seriously. I know that you do.
▶ 2:07:14And I know that you you guard your members of the military. You hold them close to your heart. And if anybody were to be killed because somebody is trying to run for a higher office, they should be held It's reprehensible. I don't even have a question for you Th this has got to stop. General Kelly is absolutely correct.
▶ 2:07:40This should be a nonpartisan committee, not even a bipartisan, a nonpartisan committee. And when people are using this as a platform to elevate themselves they should be ashamed of themselves. I I do have some questions for you, General Anderson, for the record that just needed to be stated out loud. So, God bless you. God bless the men and women that you watch over and I thank you very very much for your dedication to duty. And with that, I yield back. Gentleman yields back.
▶ 2:08:09Chair, I recognize a gentle lady from California, Miss Jacobs.
▶ 2:08:13Thank you, Mr. chairman and um thank you all for testifying today. Um Admiral Cooper, I'd like to to start with you. Um thank you for the many conversations we've had about the topic of civilian harm. Um I know it's something that that you take very seriously. I want to build on ranking member Smith's line of questioning and and give you a chance to provide some clarity on your previous statements about the strike uh on the school in Minab.
▶ 2:08:36So, I led over half the Democratic caucus in a letter to the department requesting more information about the strike and urging the findings of the ongoing investigation to be made public. Um, and the only response we received to our letter was to reiterate that there is an investigation ongoing. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter both of these into the record.
▶ 2:08:56Without objection.
▶ 2:08:57Thank you. Um, Admiral, we have public reporting here from the New York Times that um the preliminary investigation, the preliminary inquiry concluded that the United States is at fault. Uh, can I also enter this into the record?
▶ 2:09:13With objection, so ordered.
▶ 2:09:14Can you confirm that this was in fact the finding of the preliminary inquiry?
▶ 2:09:20Congressman, uh, I was I was asked about this last Thursday in a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing. We spent the weekend, myself and the staff. We looked into all 39 inst instances incidents uh that were outlined in the article. My assessment and the and our staff confirmed only one of them correlated with the US strike that was the strike in Minhob on the girls school that is a active IRGC base. The other 38 instances did not involve US munitions.
▶ 2:09:44Okay. Um I'm actually asking about a different New York Times article although I will get to that one. This one is about just the Minab strike. US at fault in strike on school in Iran. Preliminary inquiry says, can you confirm that the US being at fault was in fact the finding of the preliminary inquiry into the school strike in Manob?
▶ 2:10:05The only outcome of the preliminary inquiry was that uh it was brought to my attention. I immediately directed a a more sophisticated comprehensive investigation that would be led by an outside organization. That is in progress. We're coming toward the end of it. And as you mentioned, I'm committed to full transparency. I think this is a vitally important uh matter.
▶ 2:10:24Okay. And um when can we expect this in investigation to be complete and shared with us?
▶ 2:10:30This investigation or any investigation? I'm always reluctant to put a timetable on it. It is coming to the end and I think uh transparency is important
▶ 2:10:36Okay. And will you commit today to release an unclassified version of it to the public?
▶ 2:10:41Uh I I do.
▶ 2:10:42Okay. Thank you. Um and on these other 39 allegations here, um in this other New York Times article, you have done preliminary assessments of these
▶ 2:10:52We looked at all 39. Yes.
▶ 2:10:54Okay. Um and your understanding is that none of the other 38 had US munitions?
▶ 2:11:01Not just our understanding, our comprehensive assessment is the other 38 did not have a US munition nexus at all.
▶ 2:11:08Can you share that analysis with this
▶ 2:11:11Uh sure. And beyond that, I'd be more than happy to invite you and any member of the staff here to come down and take a look at T in Tampa for yourselves.
▶ 2:11:18Good. I plan on doing that. Thank you. Um, all right, General Anderson. Um, as uh you know uh I spend a lot of time thinking about uh the African continent. Um, and I want to talk about our strategy in Nigeria. Over Christmas last year, the United States conducted air strikes in northwest Soo State. Um, since then the US has sent 200 troops to Nigeria to train the country's military.
▶ 2:11:44And just this past weekend, the US conducted more strikes and an operation that killed Abu Bakr Minch. Um, this was a significant operation, including American special operations and uh, Seal Team 6. But as you also know, high-profile military operations, while they sound impressive, are not actually how you address violent extremism. You and I have had this conversation. Um, what is the actual strategy here other than episodic military operations that amount to an endless game of whack-a-ole?
▶ 2:12:16Congressman, I appreciate your interest in in Nigeria and these were significant strikes that set back uh the ISIS network significantly globally. Uh we have had incredibly good partnership and cooperation with the Nigerians to include their intelligence sharing. We are working with them as they address the strategy to uh address the greater drivers of this uh terrorism. Our role in the military is to help them with the violent extremist piece of it.
▶ 2:12:43Uh we have worked with them to them to other nonprofits, other uh folks that can help with the law enforcement pieces as they are looking at options to address the drivers of this instability and violent
▶ 2:12:56Well, thank you for that. But you know with respect we've tried this model across the Sahel before in Mali Burkina Fazo Nishair it collapsed. Uh we often were responsible for training the very officers who committed the coups. So I only have 3 seconds left. I would like you to take for the record if you could what is materially different about what we're doing in Nigeria from what we've done uh in the Sahel and Mr.
▶ 2:13:18Gent expired. Chair and I recognize a gentleman from Virginia Mr. Magcguire.
▶ 2:13:22Uh thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I want to say I couldn't be more proud of the work that you're doing and in our men and women in our military. We wouldn't have a country without our men and women in our military who risk their life and sometimes give their life for our freedom. So, thank you. I had the honor Saturday of joining our incredible Secretary of War Pete Hexath and our Chief of Naval Operations called Admiral Caldell as we welcomed home the um USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group. And I got to tell you, the morale is high and they accomplished a lot.
▶ 2:13:53And again, congratulations on weakening ISIS with the recent strikes. Uh, Admiral Cooper, Operation Epic Fury achieved in just 38 days of combat oper operations a foreign policy goal that eluded decision makers here in Washington for the past 40 years. I have several simple yes or no questions. Over the past two years leading up to this operation, is it true that Iran and its proxies were routinely attacking American forces and partners across the region?
▶ 2:14:21Yes. Without getting into certain details, would you say Iran was racing to build a massive conventional shield of missiles and drones to protect its nuclear program and its ability to build a nuclear weapon?
▶ 2:14:32That's indisputable. Yes.
▶ 2:14:34Did the more than 13,500 strikes conducted during Epic Fury significantly degrade Iran's ability to produce and employ its conventional weapons
▶ 2:14:45Not just degrade, but they degraded every element uh of national power. And if uh they were to uh get a nuclear would and they used it on say Paris or uh London or even US soil, would that kill hundreds of people, thousands of people or millions of people in your
▶ 2:15:05Uh notwithstanding that there's a there's a uh uh component of this I wouldn't want to discuss, but we all know nuclear weapons kill millions of
▶ 2:15:12Absolutely. So again, I'm so glad that you guys had the fortitude and the strength to step up and stop this incredible threat, not just to the US, but to mankind. Uh, Admiral, you recently stood up the rapid experimentation joint task force and task force scorpion strike, a firstofits-kind UAS squadron that used group three one-way attack systems during epic fury, Lucas drone. How are you sharing the lessons from this model with other combatant commands, and how is it feeding back into the acquisition cycle for the rest of the joint force?
▶ 2:15:41Yes, sir. We're uh super proud of the rapid employment joint task force designed to take uh uh the great weapons and sensors that are out uh the American industry is producing, getting them in the hands of war fighters in 60 days. The Lucas did exactly that. We fired high volumes of them at Iran very effectively. We've taken those lessons and shared them both in the department and laterally with other combatant commands, and we'll continue to do that as we have a more robust uh drone dominance now at our hands than we did uh last year.
▶ 2:16:09Thank you, Assistant Secretary Zimmerman and General Anderson. This administration has shifted away from the old practice of condition and security cooperation on progressive social and governance uh priorities and instead adopted a more realist approach based on shared interest. How is this practical approach planned out with partners across African groups there? Yes, Congressman.
▶ 2:16:35We've uh engaged in Nigeria is an example of that where we have done uh very high level engagement for intelligent sharing for common interest. We've also been working with the state department to reto relations with some of the Sahel states to be able to open the dialogue in order to again address the common threats and be able to provide the indications and warnings of that growing threat.
▶ 2:16:57Awesome. and Admiral Cooper. Current and recent operations in Sinccom have put US forces up against a persistent and adaptable UAS threat. How has your command shifted doctrine and tactics to address this threat?
▶ 2:17:09Congressman, first I I want to de myth uh that has existed for a number of years that the United States is using high-end costly munitions to fight $35,000 drones. Those days are behind us. Iranian drones are sophisticated, complex. We have a very sophisticated, complex uh network in the Middle East to to defend it. It's been very successful in a classified environment. I can talk about the specific numbers.
▶ 2:17:33Okay. And we're running out of time, but um what would you need more of? Are you working with GIA 401 to translate lessons learned and what can this committee do for the three of you to help us better defend our nation and our war fighters and whoever wants to take a bite at that?
▶ 2:17:47I I I we are working very close with 401. Fantastic relationship. I'd put uh three things. More electronic warfare. keep counter UAS on the leading edge. Tactics change very quickly and we need to invest more in hard and deeply buried targets. Everybody is going underground.
▶ 2:18:02General Anderson.
▶ 2:18:03Yeah, for us uh directed and focused funding for experimentation to bring emerging technologies to the continent. Uh directed and consistent funding for information operations to counter the misinformation out there and energizing the the industrial base to allow our foreign military sales for these partners because they desperately want to buy American equipment. But often the the delays are what hurt.
▶ 2:18:24Gentleman's time's expired. Chair and I recognize gentleman from New York, Mr.
▶ 2:18:28Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. I want to dewon a little bit and try to center what I'm hearing from my constituents in the district and and across the country. Um, they are, as I know the whole committee is and myself, incredibly proud of our troops, incredibly appreciative of your leadership, but also increasingly deep and broad concern about what is the plan in Iran and and do we have a clear strategy? They they see the costs continue to go up.
▶ 2:18:55We talked about our 13 heroes lost, the hundreds wounded, many seriously, tens of billions of dollars in their hard-earned taxpayer funds. potential for another 200 billion. We've heard uh supplemental and of course just the astronomical costs every American is paying at the pump under $3 gas prices before the war started and now approaching $5. And just as we know that's thousands of dollars per family and people just cannot afford it right now.
▶ 2:19:24and and and in good faith, the question I continue to hear from my constituents is what is the plan to to not just end but win the the conflict and bring down cost for and I think part of what I'm trying to get at is folks are feeling some some whiplash. Uh for example, Admiral Cooper on on April 30th, you went to the White House, you briefed the president on options that was publicly reported anyway. A few days later, Secretary Hegsth announced this uh Project Freedom.
▶ 2:19:54Secretary Rubio the same day said that Operation Epic Fury was concluded. We're essentially told this new plan, which was separate and distinct, would open the straight and and sort of unlock this uh stalemate. Literally a day later, without much explanation, the president announced that project was over. The straight remained closed. Gas prices continued to climb. We saw of course last week there was great hope that uh the summit in China would change the dynamics.
▶ 2:20:23It appears the president at least so far came home empty-handed. Straight remained closed. Gas prices continue to rise. Iran continues to strike uh their neighboring countries. We have as many if not more troops in theater. And I think I mean you said Mr. Zimmerman, it's complex. I think it's pretty clear to the American people at least from what they're hearing that it feels like we're we're stuck. One of my constituents said, uh, this is a mess.
▶ 2:20:49And so I'm just trying to answer that to them and especially the military families in my district. Admiral Cooper, what options are you briefing to the president now to try to create the leverage that we know we need?
▶ 2:21:01Congressman, first of all, great to see you again. Uh, and thanks for your own service. um as you would appreciate it'd be inappropriate for me to comment on specific uh discussions uh I had or recommendations to the secretary and the president which are a statutory responsibility of mine. What I will tell you is as we sit here right now the implementation of the blockade uh is highly effective and is being used as a very strong lever in diplomatic negotiations and those diplomatic negotiations governed by policy will dictate the way ahead.
▶ 2:21:30US military in the meantime is uh fully postured in a three-point stance ready to uh go a number of different directions as
▶ 2:21:38Thank you, Admiral. Mr. Zimmerman, can you I understand the the offset concerns of course uh can you help uh expand on yesterday. The president in a very long post uh said to to to many of our surprise there was a planned military attack actually planned for today uh but that he has told you all to quote hold off. But at the in the same post he also instructed you to be prepared to quote go forward with a full largecale assault of Iran on a moment's notice.
▶ 2:22:09just an hour ago, actually, as we've been in committee, he doubled down on TV standing in front of the the East Room demolition, saying, quote, "We may have to give them another big hit." So, again, I'm I'm just trying to be able to explain to my constituents, Mr. Zimmerman, are we reinitiating offensive combat operations?
▶ 2:22:30Thank you, Congressman. Of course, that decision uh is the president's to make.
▶ 2:22:36Is that an option that's been briefed to Well, Mr. Congressman, it's his it's his decision to make whether to
▶ 2:22:43Are you planning to ask Congress this time for a declaration or an authorization now that we're almost three months in?
▶ 2:22:50As you know, right now there are negotiations going on of the highest order to try to achieve a long-term
▶ 2:22:55I understand that. I understand that. To be more specific, will you rule out today that one of those options would be putting boots on ground, which I think the wide array of the American people are concerned about specifically?
▶ 2:23:11Mr. Congressman, the president retains the options at his disposal to do.
▶ 2:23:14So, you will not rule out escalating this further by putting groups in Iran?
▶ 2:23:19The president retains the options he needs to get. We owe I'm I'm out of time, but we owe the American people honesty and transparency almost 3 months in. It is It is pathetic. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Gentleman's time's expired. J recognize a gentleman from Colorado, Mr.
▶ 2:23:36Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, and thank you all for your service. Uh, General Anderson, several African countries have turned to Russian mercenaries uh for internal stability and for counterterrorism. Yet in 2024, Russian and Russianbacked forces caused more civilian casualties in the Sahel than Islamic terrorists did. What message does this send to African nations seeking security partnerships?
▶ 2:24:04Congressman, I think uh it's pretty obvious what message that sends. It's pretty clear in what you just said. And I think our operation recently here in Nigeria is a justosition between what US counterterrorism brings versus what Russian counterterrorism brings. And I think the results speak for themselves.
▶ 2:24:21Thank you, General. Um, Admiral Cooper, during Operation Epic Fury, you said, quote, "Our space superiority has been a critical enabler uh to Sentcom's activities." Can you expand on the role that the uh the Space Force plays and played in the conflict and how it integrates with the other services and with our allies? Congressman, I'd like to use the phrase uh the Space Force gives us the ultimate high ground. They've played an indispensable role.
▶ 2:24:47I would love to have the opportunity uh to brief you and other members of the committee on exactly what role Space Forces Central has played and continue to play in a classified environment. It's been indispensable.
▶ 2:24:56It it essentially it's foundational to what you do, right?
▶ 2:24:59Absolutely. It's integrated into every aspect of our operations.
▶ 2:25:04Thank you. And then, Secretary Zimmerman, Operation Epic Fury represented the Space Force's uh first real test in sustained combat operations. What lessons has the department drawn uh from that experience? Like what worked, what didn't work, were there any capabilities or gaps that surprised you? Um and how does that inform this the uh the services role in future conflicts? Thank you for the question, Congressman. If I may, I would like to take that back to the building.
▶ 2:25:33We have an assistant secretary, uh, my colleague Mark Burkov Burkowitz, who specifically covers space issues, and he would be able to give you the the most thorough answer on that
▶ 2:25:42Okay. Uh, thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield back.
▶ 2:25:46Gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes a gentleman from New Mexico, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and to our witnesses for being here today, and thank you so much for your service to our nation. For 80 days, the administration has waged a war in Iran without congressional authorization with the approval of the American people. The administration has spent at least 29 billion in taxpayer funds on the president's war of choice, billions in funding that could have gone to healthcare or lowering the cost of living.
▶ 2:26:14We all agreed that Iran should never have a nuclear weapon. But last June, the administration had stated that Iran's nuclear facilities were obliterated. Congress has yet to see proof that there was an imminent threat, and the administration has failed to explain to Americans how this war in is in our nation's best interest or what the end goal or exit strategy truly is. To me, this is unacceptable. The New Mexicans that sent me to Congress to represent them deserve answers, and I'm here to get them. So, let's get started.
▶ 2:26:40Assistant Secretary, earlier this month, the president publicly stated that the war was, and I quote, terminated. Could you tell the American people today that this war is over? Congressman, as the president stated, we were pursuing some specific military objectives and he said that that phase of major combat operations was over and we were transitioning to uh the project freedom and we're in a ceasefire now with a blockade
▶ 2:27:10going on. And so so assistant secretary of a constituent asked me that question in very plain language as many New Mexicans speak. Congressman Vosquez, is the war over? What should I tell them?
▶ 2:27:21We have a ceasefire. We have a ceasefire. So, does that mean the war is essentially over? Is that a yes or no?
▶ 2:27:27I would answer by saying that we are in a state of ceasefire.
▶ 2:27:30Well, the war is now approaching three months. And let's be clear, it's never ended and Congress has never authorized these military actions. A large US military presence in the straight of Hormuz remains blockading Iranian ports, which under international law is an act of war itself. Additionally, the administration recently struck multiple sites and Iranian flag ships. Our troops are still at risk and just yesterday, the president publicly threatened more military strikes against Iran. We're clearly still in a war and American taxpayers are paying for it.
▶ 2:27:58Now, gas prices in New Mexico are at about $4.50 uh cents per gallon. They're paying double for their fertilizer. I just spoke with four farmers in my district who potentially will have to shut down their operations if they don't have relief anytime soon. My constituents want this war over. Uh what's the administration's exit strategy? What's the efforts to reopen the straight of Hormuz? Secretary,
▶ 2:28:21that's certainly part of the negotiations that are ongoing as we
▶ 2:28:27Assistant Secretary, before the war, an average of a 100 ships per day were passing through the strait. Now, at least a thousand are stranded with only a handful per day passing through. How soon before a return to normal?
▶ 2:28:39Uh, I don't have a specific timeline for you. Um, as has been stated already, the straight of Hormuz, you have a situation with multiple players there, including a highly degraded foe, Iran, who still is speaking loudly, as Admiral Cooper said, and the flow through the strait is not only impacted by real military capabilities, which have been seriously degraded, but also the decision-m of commercial actors as well, and their calculus as they think
▶ 2:29:10about uh their oper their own operations
▶ 2:29:13and assistant secretary scenario.
▶ 2:29:15Is the option still to escort ships through the straight? Is that still an option that's viable?
▶ 2:29:21The the pres our department will be responsive to any any option or any directive that the president gives us. Okay. Forward.
▶ 2:29:29Well, I just think it's important because it seems like every day we have different strategies of how to reopen or open the flow of the straight of horn moves. My constituents ask me and I can't give them a straight answer because like you mentioned the president changes his mind on a daily basis and it is very tough to have predictability especially in the economy if we know that all those uh tankers are are essentially you know it'll be months before they get here perhaps oil and gas will come first but fertilizer will come second leaving our farmers probably till the fall or winter before they see those prices go down and
▶ 2:29:59that is a problem and so to me and to the American people the lack of this clear vision for how the US is going to get out of this war or reopen the strait is really, really concerning. You know, no one asked for this. Americans voted for a president who promised to keep our country out of senseless forever wars. And today, that promise, as we see, is broken. This war of choice is costing the American people billions as their cost of living continues to spike from inflation, from rising gas prices, and from tariffs. Those are the folks that I represent and what they care about.
▶ 2:30:27And we just learned that our largest military objective is simply to get us back to where we started before the war. The American people deserve to know why they're sending their sons and daughters to war. They deserve to know how long this war will last and how much it will cost. They deserve to know if it's going to endanger American lives and civilians domestically and abroad. And they deserve to know when the price of damn gas is going to go back down again. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
▶ 2:30:50Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognize gentleman from Kansas, Mr.
▶ 2:30:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today and particularly for you, Admiral, and you, General. uh want to thank all of the men and women under your command and their families and friends and colleagues and we are grateful for their service as well as your own. Admiral, let me start with you or perhaps Mr. Zimmer just to clarify a fact. I think I've heard two different things over the past several weeks and I'd just like to know what the disconnect is. I believe you said today and I think Mr.
▶ 2:31:21Zimmerman also you used the number 14 in referencing the number of Americans who have been killed in this operation or these operations. That's the same number that Secretary Hegsth and I believe General Kaine used at that table a few weeks ago, but most of us have been using the number 13, including a number of my colleagues here today. Can you shed any light on where that discrepancy lies?
▶ 2:31:44Certainly, there's uh Congressman, there's simply a an individual who who died outside of uh uh he was not killed in action. Uh and I just respect his family. We honor him along with the other 13. Thank you very much for clarifying that. Admiral, let me ask you about the commerce in and out of the straight and looking forward.
▶ 2:32:04Obviously, none of us knows what the future holds, but can you discuss a bit about uh what should, what might, what could, whatever is appropriate in this setting, a a European role look like in terms of guaranteeing uh maritime transit in the region going forward? There have been the public reports most recently about our our British and French allies talking about some type of role, but can you talk a bit about that?
▶ 2:32:28Congressman, much of that is is a policy matter, not a mil military matter. Uh what I can say is we've continued to work very closely with military partners in the region uh to support future operations and planning that's gone on. And we've also connected at a militaryto military level with our European allies from a planning perspective. What that looks like in execution is a civilian policy decision. Would it be fair to say that it would be helpful if there is a European role going forward?
▶ 2:32:54All help uh would be appreciated at the appropriate time.
▶ 2:32:57And Admiral, can you talk a bit about uh our our capacity to uh diminish, degrade, destroy, whatever the right word is, the Iranians ability to mine uh the straits or the waters in the area? Where are we on that? And what more can we do to be helpful to your efforts in that regard? Congressman, as I as I stated in my uh my statement for the record, uh we uh eliminated 90% of Iran's mine capability uh during Operation Epic Fury.
▶ 2:33:25They still retain 10% of it uh in a in a classified environment. I could talk about the specifics of what that looks like and how we're handling that.
▶ 2:33:32Very good. Thank you. Uh General, let me turn my attention to you and to our our work in Africa. Um, listening to your discussions today, we all have a different recollection of history and and the lessons we draw from it, but your discussion about what's happening in West Africa today, our u inability to see and know as much as we would like to see and know, the operations base that uh many of our adversaries, our terrorist adversaries in particular are using.
▶ 2:33:58It reminded me of the discussions in the 1990s when al-Qaeda was organizing in East Africa and Somalia and in Kenya and in Tanzania and was trying to use the failed state in Afghanistan as their base of operation. Uh we all know where that led um in 2001.
▶ 2:34:15C can you describe in whatever manner appropriate in this setting the the nature of the terrorist threat that you see brewing in Africa generally or West Africa in particular and what that means to American homeland Yes, I take this very seriously uh Mr. Congressman because of what you highlighted.
▶ 2:34:34Terrorists will go to where there is lack of governance where they have the ability to operate freely and that's why they have sought the Azawad area in particular of uh West Africa without sufficient uh pressure without the sufficient western engagement there we may lose sight of that and I think we as you said have seen what happens when that occurs. So we are investing heavily in other means uh to include experimental and and emerging technologies in order to be able to monitor this threat.
▶ 2:35:02Uh the concern that I have is that the the terrorist threats have focused on Africa. They see this as their future. They see the the potential of establishing a caliphate there. If a nation uh capital were to fall uh and become uh controlled by a terrorist organization, I think that would be a uh beacon for many of the terrorists that would energize them and I think that would be in not in any interest of the United States or of the Western European countries.
▶ 2:35:30So this is why we're focusing a lot of effort in order to provide those indications and warnings so that we can uh adequately address it. And as to Congressman Crank's point there, the United States is the gold standard for counterterrorism operations, but it has to be enabled by working with the partner and the intelligence that goes behind it. That allows us to conduct these operations with precision. It allows us to take civilian casualties under consideration and allows us to work with a partner in ways no other.
▶ 2:35:56Gentleman's times expired. Chair now recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Cisneros.
▶ 2:36:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. Um, Admiral Cooper, the Ford returned to no Norfolk last Saturday after a record 330-day deployment, the longest by a carrier since Vietnam. For three weeks, you had three carrier strike groups operating in the AO, the Lincoln, the Ford, and the Bush. That represents a quarter of the entire carrier fleet, almost half of our deployed US ships in that single.
▶ 2:36:24Um after that long deployment where the Ford was sent across across the equator multiple times um what was the need to keep three carriers in the region? Now I believe in the power of our Navy and how good it works and the the tool that the carrier strike group is but why did we need three?
▶ 2:36:46Congressman, good to see you again, sir. Uh first just a matter of clarification statement for the record here. uh when the George Bush showed up in theater, uh the Gerald Ford was uh dismissed 48 hours later. There was not an enduring need for three carriers.
▶ 2:36:59Okay. Well, thank you for that answer. Appreciate it. Uh, General Anderson, um, I want to ask you, look now, I believe in diplomacy and diplomacy comes in many ways and I think one of the ways that we have been effective diplomatically in the past is by using organizations like USAD that did a lot of work uh, in Africa to share the goodwill of the United States.
▶ 2:37:22Um, can you explain to me the fact that that program no longer exists, that there no longer is no US ID operating in Africa? uh how that's made how that's changed things for you.
▶ 2:37:37I appreciate the question and uh agree there is a role for targeted aid that contributes to uh security and stability whether that's from non-governmental organizations, governments or private uh donors. Uh what that has meant for me is we have uh engaged very uh closely with the department of commerce in particular.
▶ 2:37:54I have a foreign service commercial officer joining our staff to look at the intersection of economics and security and what we have found is that every African country that I have visited has welcomed the opportunity to engage with US trade, US investment and they look at that for as their future. So we're looking at multiple different tools to to use to provide security and stability across our government with us focusing on the military instrument but understanding the security implications that other uh agencies bring.
▶ 2:38:22So would you agree that the fact that uh look we want to we always want to increase trade and commerce and work with partners all over the world right and yes those companies would like to engage with us that way but uh the aid would you agree to say that yes the the elimination of USA US ID has had an impact on on what you're able to do there and made it harder to partner with countries
▶ 2:38:46I think that's still to be determined congressman we have not seen what that impact is entirely there there still uh aid in in Africa that is constructive for providing stability. Uh but again, it's a multiaceted approach that we're looking at.
▶ 2:39:00Well, I think you know the elimination of such programs like that right leaves a window open for China to kind of come in and fill that gap which is not in any way positive for us. Um just another followup on that. The um there's talk of a consolidation of Africcon into one of the other COCOMs whether it be your com or even the talk of a bigger one US international command. Um you know your predecessor General Langley was when I spoke with him was not something that he agreed with.
▶ 2:39:30He believed that Ariccom still need to kind of be there and independent especially with the growing terrorist threat there. Uh, do you agree that, you know, we should still keep operating ARICOM as one of the co-coms there and not consolidate it into another one?
▶ 2:39:44Congressman, my inputs to this discussion have been consistent in that the complexities in the security challenges of Africa, I think need an organization that remains focused on the continent. Whether or not that is a combatant command, a subunified command, or some other organization, I think is worthy of debate. as long as they have the authorities that are necessary to go ahead and execute. I think this operation we did over the weekend is a great example of where Brad Cooper and Sentcom and the rest of the world were very much focused in the Middle East.
▶ 2:40:12We've been able to maintain the focus on the continent and the counterterrorism threats over the last several months that allowed the development of this target and the execution over the
▶ 2:40:21All right. Well, thank you for that. And again, right, I think it is, as you said, right, important to have an organization that is could be distinctly focused on ARICOM as well as the other COCOMs around the nation. And this is something that came into play um over over years as to where we need to put our focus and put our attention and is when we needed to kind of build there as we saw with SCCOM, uh when there was a time where that area needed to be focused on, we've created that command. So hopefully that continues. But thank you all for your questions and I yield
▶ 2:40:51And gentlemen yields back. Chair now recognize gentleman from Illinois, Mr.
▶ 2:40:56Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, thank you to the assistant secretary, to the admiral and the general. Uh, thank you for your service and your leadership uh to our nation. Um, I'd first like to offer my condolences to the loved ones of the 13 service members who have been killed in the war uh in Iran and the hundreds of service members um who have been wounded. Like so many Americans, I remain deeply frustrated by President Trump's decision to put our country into war.
▶ 2:41:25Last week, Pentagon officials testified the war has already cost 29 billion dollars to the taxpayer, and billions will be needed to replenish. Now, all the while, gas prices are nearly double what they used to be before Donald Trump started the war. My neighbors can't afford this and strategically our country cannot afford the dangerous position that we now find ourselves in. Iran still has nuclear material and straight of Hormuz remains closed. But the facts matter.
▶ 2:41:54We're in a worse position today than before Trump started the war. To Assistant Secretary Zimmerman, what is the strategy that we should be telling Americans on how we're going to end this? Congressman, my view and I think the testimony you've heard today is that we are not in a worse position uh when it comes to our national security interests than um than before the war. So I would respectfully uh push back on that on that point.
▶ 2:42:23So you said that we're executing a blockade. A blockade is an act of war. No, that means that we are in a war.
▶ 2:42:30We are executing we are we are doing a very effective blockade. So, we do we have a strategy of how to get out of the mess? I mean, can we call it a mess?
▶ 2:42:40Well, the the White House has engaged in negotiations of the highest order uh as we speak to arrive at the right
▶ 2:42:48I think we heard our ranking members say that there have been a lot of negotiations, but we don't know who those negotiations are with. If we meet in a classified setting, could I could you tell me who those negotiations are being held with? I I think we could go into a a little more detail.
▶ 2:43:04We've seen the reporting that Russia's been providing intelligence to Iran. Uh Mr. Zimmerman, what assistance has Russia been providing Iran?
▶ 2:43:14Perhaps that'd be best to uh defer to the close session as well.
▶ 2:43:17Could you confirm that Russia is working with Iran to undermine the efforts of the United States?
▶ 2:43:23Russia and Iran have a a long-term uh uh partnership and we can talk in further detail. Have we taken steps to get Russia to stop working with and sharing intelligence with Iran?
▶ 2:43:36Let's let's talk further.
▶ 2:43:38Um, President Trump is is spending roughly a billion taxpayer dollars a day on this war. $1 billion a day. Um, Mr. Zimmerman, can you explain how we're spending a billion dollars a day if we are, as you say, we're in a ceasefire? Uh I think the the the estimate you got from uh Mr.
▶ 2:44:01Hurst when he was uh testifying was the cost of the war to date have been uh 29 billion and the um the department is continuing to evaluate those numbers. Um certainly the and Admiral Cooper would have more expertise on this issue but uh maintaining a uh a blockade is not a is involves some degree of cost as well.
▶ 2:44:24So, I should just say that to my neighbors who are going into massive credit card debt because they can't afford the gas at the gas station that that that should be the answer.
▶ 2:44:36I'll defer to you on what you say to your neighbors. What I would say is the president would not be undertaking the actions he is if they were not in the interests of US citizens. Well, I I you know, I if President Trump was serious about preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon or or um having this capability, um he would not have blown up the nuclear deal in 2018.
▶ 2:45:00Um he would have negotiated a new deal if he is in fact the negotiator, if he is the dealmaker that he thinks he is. But he has not done that. Um, and if President Trump insists on spending a billion dollars a day, I'd love to talk to him about how we provide school lunches to children or ending homelessness or making sure that people can afford their healthcare or the massive credit card debt that we are going to see massive defaults in just a matter of months if people can't fill their gas tanks
▶ 2:45:30with the liquid in that they have in their bank accounts. Mr. Chairman, I yield
▶ 2:45:34Gentleman yields back. chair and I recognize a gentle lady from New Hampshire, Miss Goodlander.
▶ 2:45:39Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. I want to start with terrorism, which is a through line in both of your actually all three of your testimonies. Mr. Zimmerman, you you wrote in your written testimony that the ISIS threat has been successfully reduced to a level that Iraqi and and Syrian forces can manage with scoped and targeted US assistance.
▶ 2:46:02Admiral, you testified uh in your written statement that in the rear view mirror, two decades of the global war on terror operations fade increasingly in the distance behind us. You also acknowledge though at the same time that large parts of Syria remain under marginal control by the government. Uh and Admiral, you I'm glad you addressed this in your in your written testimony.
▶ 2:46:29you brought our attention to um what was a really shocking and extremely troubling uh development earlier this year um late last year. You point out that ISIS attacks in Syria uh led to the to the deaths of two service members and to an American civilian interpreter. You also testified that earlier this year in January, there was a mass prison outbreak in northeast Syria.
▶ 2:46:59Uh, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a February 20th, 2026 article from the Wall Street Journal entitled, quote, "US intelligence says at least 15,000 at large after ISIS detention camp collapses in Syria." Without objection,
▶ 2:47:18Admiral, you you you have noted that uh this development raises serious concerns because of the nature of of of the detainees who are now at large. Um can you explain to us how this happened?
▶ 2:47:36Congresswoman, thank you very much for uh for the question. Yeah, as you recall back in December and January, uh the Syrian army uh moved from its uh positions in western Syria and then uh maneuvered east uh uh pushing what was then the SDF, the Syrian Democratic Forces up into their traditional lands. In the course of doing so, uh they uh took full custody of these camps uh as you described and then and then redistributed the people from the camps uh throughout Syria.
▶ 2:48:04Admiral, what are we going to do to prevent large-scale ISIS reconstitution as a result of these thousands of detainees who are now at
▶ 2:48:13Congressman, we've moved the joint task force OIR headquarters who has the lead and keeping our eye on ISIS from Iraq now in Jordan. We've uh continue to work with a large
▶ 2:48:22am I right, Admiral, that Operation Inherent Resolve, OIR, is coming to a conclusion in just a few weeks time.
▶ 2:48:28That's not correct, ma'am.
▶ 2:48:30we continue to operate with a large coalition focused on the the end date September 2026.
▶ 2:48:35Uh that that is uh we're um not not precisely uh accurate. The most accurate way to describe it is our presence in Iraq uh comes to an end by previous agreement in September. Operation Inherent Resolve continues and we have 90 countries focused on this effort.
▶ 2:48:52Admiral, I'll be following up with detailed questions for the record on this. General, am I right that terrorism is the most acute threat you're facing right now in Africam? That's correct. it's pretty eyepopping to see just the rise in um terrorism related fatalities last year alone spiked to a a level we have never seen before.
▶ 2:49:17Um is it accurate that Russianbacked militant groups are a big piece of what's fueling the threat of terrorism in in Africam right now? Uh, Congresswoman, I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's fueling it, but I it is very clear it is doing very little to uh stem it or to reduce it.
▶ 2:49:37Well, you point out in your written testimony that under the guise of counterterrorism operations, Russia right now is is making bank. You you described Africa as Putin's purse. Um, you you you point out that Vladimir Putin has generated more than $2.5 billion dollar in revenue since 2022. Is that set back our interests and priorities in Africam?
▶ 2:50:03Uh, Congresswoman, it is uh that is true that they Russia is extracting uh billions of dollars in gold, uranium, and human capital to fight their war and fuel their war machine. Russia is also fueling its war machine thanks to President Trump's decision to give Vladimir Putin and his regime another pass at collecting billions of dollars in oil revenue.
▶ 2:50:27And I I I know this is outside of your decisional lanes, but I cannot think of anything worse for our country's security than funding our adversaries because of this war of choice in Iran. Gentle's time's expired. Chair and I recognize gentle from Maryland, Miss Elworth.
▶ 2:50:44Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Admiral, thank you for taking the time yesterday to chat about some of these offline issu issues offline. I want to join all of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle aisle here on on centering the the 14 service members that were lost and their families. Um, and we I think have some spirited debate over definitions of obliterated or significantly degraded.
▶ 2:51:05I would venture to say though that Twitter diplomacy, the damage of that, the danger of wargaming by social media, I I think between the tweets on Easter, what we saw yesterday, even the comments just an hour ago while we were sitting here in this committee room by the president, unequivocally make your jobs more difficult. Um, and I think two things can be true here. We can all agree that we cannot have a nuclear Iran.
▶ 2:51:29And at the same time, my constituents, just like everybody's constituents, are asking us as members of Congress and myself and all of us here as members of the oversight committee for our armed services, how is this going to come to an end? For many reasons, the safety of our service members, the safety of civilians in the region, the untold billions of dollars we are spending here, um, and of course the other economic ramifications of this conflict.
▶ 2:51:54So, I do want to talk about um Admiral, you and I talked about civilian casualties yesterday uh in preparation for this and I I do want to circle back Mr. Zimmerman on this question about the civilian military coordination center and I do would love to take you up on visiting Tampa and seeing that firsthand. Um it's it's also true and I think uh conflict after conflict over the last few decades we have to appreciate that your military operations alone are not going to deliver stability to the region. We have to think about broader governance.
▶ 2:52:22We have to think about humanitarian efforts and civilian safety. So Mr. Zimmerman, I think we're in a bit of a interregnum when it comes to this particular function whether where it lives where it lives. Can you commit to this committee when that decision is made that you're going to be forthright with us and bring that to us and perhaps even seek our feedback on
▶ 2:52:43Congresswoman, as you say, the decision is any decision is pending and when it is made, Congress will be privy to that decision. I I think it's incredibly important um not just in this conflict but in any conflicts ahead. I want to move on. Admiral Cooper um can you tell me as we bring material and tankers uh on our strike aircraft, what's the route that they would take from the east coast of the United States to SenCom? What route would they take into the region?
▶ 2:53:12Ma'am, without talking operational specifics, they they obviously generally fly uh through uh North Africa or
▶ 2:53:18Okay. and families that have to evad had to evadigrate from uh Bahrain and other sentcom bases. Where did they go?
▶ 2:53:25They were distributed between Italy, Germany, and any number of places in the United States that they elected to go.
▶ 2:53:30Okay. And obviously, I think we can all remember between Iraq and Afghanistan when we've had casualties, we've often treated them in locations in Europe where uh our wounded have been hospitalized and treated where have our wounded been hospitalized in this conflict before coming home. treated initially and launched duel okay as as has been the case in the past and then moved to the United States uh here in Washington in particular Walter Reed
▶ 2:53:53and you necessary
▶ 2:53:55thank you and we've heard some of the concerns on both sides of the aisle again on on not just our casualties in terms of uh our service members but also kind of untold on on our equipment if we had damage to a ship and we couldn't make it all the way to a home port where would that maintenance take place?
▶ 2:54:11Oh man, that's a hypothetical right now because we've had no no damage to a ship hypothetically. uh but there are a number of US military installations uh in in Europe and in Asia in particular we could go to.
▶ 2:54:21So I I think it's important I'm sorry I had to run through that battery of questions but I think it's important we talk about we are not in this conflict alone even if some of our NATO allies are not as engaged as perhaps the president would like. We still have very important capabilities and very important contingency plans that flow through our our European allies. And on that note, um, Admiral Cooper, we talked a little bit about the contributions, um, and the capabilities, uh, of Ukraine in this conflict.
▶ 2:54:48Can you just in my remaining 55 seconds talk a little bit about how they have helped utilize what they have learned in their conflict with Russia to be of aid to your ser the service members under your command?
▶ 2:54:59Yes, ma'am. I think most notably we've taken a large number of tactics, techniques and procedures uh that have been practiced uh by Ukraine and adopted them uh as our own and applied them in in a methodical successful way. There's also been uh several other instances where we've used their capability to partner directly with re with GCC nations to enhance their capability and there's some other ways we can talk about a classified environment.
▶ 2:55:22I I appreciate that and I think the overarching question of how does this come to an end for folks watching at home I wish we could have that conversation here but I I look forward to that um heartfelt conversation. We've had a number of closed door briefings. I've not yet been satisfied with the answers. I hope Mr. Chair in the next hour we can get some more uh answers so I can bring them home um over the course of this afternoon. With that I yield. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
▶ 2:55:45Chair and I recognize gentleman from Georgia, Dr. McCormick.
▶ 2:55:49Thank you Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us here today. Uh, General Anderson, good to see you again. Excited about what's going on uh in your command, especially with Ariccom and all s significant challenges you had there. One of the things I wanted to address specifically with your command, uh, we worry about anti- drone defenses, especially considering what the Hezbollah has just crossed uh, the straight and what you have to deal with in Djibouti specifically.
▶ 2:56:18uh how do you think we're doing in preparing you for that defense specifically for that uh that threat?
▶ 2:56:27Yes, Congressman, I appreciate that. For the integrated air missile defense, we work very closely with Sentcom and uh Admiral Cooper on coordinating that especially in that Horn of Africa area. We do have uh the minimum required right now, but as the threat continues to evolve, that's an invest an area we will need continued investment in. We are also working closely with our partners there with the French to integrate their miragages as well as their radar system so we can do have a combined and integrated defense uh for that piece in particular.
▶ 2:56:52The other area that you highlight that I think is even more critical is the counter UAS across the continent as we become more expeditionary looking into and evolving our defenses in order to protect our forces in expeditionary environments is going to be more and more critical. I think also equally important is as we look at these emerging technologies, we use the opportunities in Africa to experiment. And so having some directed focused uh effort in Africa to actually do some of that uh battle lab type experimentation for emerging technologies will pay dividends for the entirety of the joint force.
▶ 2:57:22Good. I I think one of the things I'm worried about obviously with Africa have a one of the few continents if not the only continent that has an expanding population obviously massive poverty problems that is going to constantly supply us with new terrorists. Uh so I think that threat will be super real in your in your area and I hope uh with the decimation of Iran that we can have less funding for Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations with I think they've been funding for decades now.
▶ 2:57:46And I I hope you agree with that assessment too that hopefully that will help our assessment of that area and the funding of terrorist organizations.
▶ 2:57:53I I I do agree and I also think though these organizations are very resilient and they'll look for alternative forms of funding and which is a concerning for us the Houthi al-Shabaab connection that seems to be growing of how that may develop in the future as Iran is no longer the same sponsor for the Houthis they were in the past.
▶ 2:58:10I agree with you entirely Admiral Cooper. Uh, one of the things I thought was interesting seeing the 31st MU deploy now into the uh, Persian Gulf and and and to see what's going on with the the challenge we have with Iran. Uh, when I was on the 31st MU, we're basically uh, focused on Korea at the time. And I was on the original USS Tripoli. We called the the Crippley back in the day. We actually were on the retirement float of that u ship which went I think dead uh, four times in the water without any attack.
▶ 2:58:40uh and we had open sewage flowing all over the place. It was a horrible ship. Good to see a new ship, but we don't have enough ship building, right? And I feel like this is a perfect example of why when we have a marine expeditionary unit right there ready to go, what kind of impact it can have in that region and when we don't have that, when we have shortcoming in shipping or or expeditionary um availability, it can really affect us.
▶ 2:59:02What do you think our biggest concern is in our preparation for the future of marine expeditionary units and the Well, sir, first you you'll be proud to know USS Tripoli is operating at the top of their game today and playing an indispensable role in in a number of areas particularly implementing the blockade and the 31st MW which I used to have operational command of several tours ago also indispensable role. Um I think if we just look to the future just in in speaking in broad generalities these are decisions made by the department of the Navy.
▶ 2:59:30I'd really defer to them of what those things should look like. But if I just look at the force structure I have today, uh, between carrier strike groups, uh, the cruisers and the the destroyer force and the and the marines and the amphibious readiness group, I think we're well postured to deal with a broad range of contingencies. Not and I'm speaking just from from my perspective. I think other combatant commanders would would express the same perspective.
▶ 2:59:52Oh, good. I hope you're right. I think one of the biggest things that that our chairman has focused on, thank you, Chairman Rogers, for what you do, uh, is the way we contract, the way we hold people accountable, the way we streamline this process because obviously I think our best contract right now is about 50% over budget and 18 months behind. So, I'm hoping we can get back on track with the way that we approach this both from the Pentagon and in conjunction with what the armed services are doing uh because I think that's really important to the future. Uh, I don't know if you Mr.
▶ 3:00:20Zimmerman, if you have anything to add as far as our our security in Africa and our defenses and our posturing and how well we're prepared for that and what we look for in the future.
▶ 3:00:29Thank you, sir. And in policy, we enjoy a very close relationship with with ARICOM and I very much appreciate General um Anderson's uh approach. As you have read in our national um defense strategy, we are looking particularly at terrorist threats that could target the homeland. We're also looking at countering China in ways that specifically relate to our ability to flow forces and working with operational independent partners.
▶ 3:00:51Gentleman's time is expired. Chair, I recognize gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Vindman. Thank you, chair. So, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here today. Um, I want to start with a quote from Suns Su that I'm sure many of you are familiar with. Um, Sunsu wrote, "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." And I think that's the crux of the situation that we find ourselves in in Iran today.
▶ 3:01:17So I along with my colleagues, many of my colleagues on this committee are deeply concerned about the administration's actions in Iran and that those are tactics without strategy. And my constituents, many of them feel like we're losing. But one thing is for sure, we know for sure that uh gas prices have skyrocketed, inflation is increasing, and uh there's no real end in sight right now.
▶ 3:01:41Despite the significant tactical and operational destruction of Iran's military, the Strait of Hormuz remains closed for all intents and purposes and is causing significant damage to the global economy. In fact, the IMF has already said that global GDP will be uh 3% lower because the straight is closed and my constituents are feeling that every day in the form of rising costs.
▶ 3:02:04In addition to the petroleum products, obviously uh fertilizer prices have doubled and I'm sure you've heard that today as well and we're at the beginning of planting season. So that means the shock to food prices, grocery prices will start to hit um in the fall during harvest time. Those are pretty significant um costs and uh they're being felt even more broadly by um our international partners that are uh susceptible to the these types of shocks.
▶ 3:02:32some frustrated because this was foreseeable. I mean, we we could have foreseen that the Iranians would have closed the straight. That's been um demonstrated in numerous war games for for decades. And it was avoidable because ultimately this is a war of choice. The president selected the timing for this conflict without ever making the case to the American people and asking for authorization.
▶ 3:02:56So as we move out from here, I hope we can focus on the strategic objectives and not be distracted by the red herring of the tactical and operational objectives. I mean, for all intents and purposes, sinking their navy is like this the same as saying we've eliminated their horse cavalry or we've knocked out all their gallions. It's not really the thing that we need to be focused on, right? And that's not what the constituents are concerned about right now.
▶ 3:03:22U there is no real plan to deal with Iran's nuclear uh program and to open the straight. So let me turn attention a little bit to the drone question. Uh Admiral um we there's a task force scorpion which is a battalion sized element that's purpose-built for to employ group three oneway attack drones.
▶ 3:03:43Drawing on your firsthand experience on that formation, what one or two lessons can we draw for uh for Sentcom and more broadly for US military? Congressman, thank you for that. I think uh the leading edge work we've done in uh offensive fires associated with employing offensive one-way attack uh represent a dramatic increase in our focus on drone domination gives us more options and make us makes us a more lethal force.
▶ 3:04:10And uh is that a capability that will help us reopen uh the straight?
▶ 3:04:15I wouldn't want to talk about any specific capability, but they are one tool in the toolkit.
▶ 3:04:20Absent um actually controlling the terrain and and ground operations, is there a way to open the straight in in is it just fire control or do we have to actually control the terrain?
▶ 3:04:33Congressman, I think there's there's a broader discussion best uh discussed in a classified forum. Uh there's there's a lot of military options here uh and lots of tools in the toolkit and those are those will be driven ultimately by policy. Well, this is another area where I'm afraid that the the shoe the other shoe is about to drop is that the only way to really to get at this problem set is to deploy ground forces and seize terrain. And um the American people are not prepared for that and they need to be ahead of time.
▶ 3:05:02Not like this uh conflict was initiated. Uh, Admiral Cooper, I want to turn um attention to the the deadly um attack that killed our soldiers in in Kuwait on March 1st, including one of my constituents in Spsylvania County. U, when will the investigation into that incident be
▶ 3:05:20Congressman, that the uh incident itself is coming to the investigation itself is coming to conclusion. We have to bear about it and and I can talk about the specifics of what occurred in a classified environment.
▶ 3:05:30Well, I think that I think that would be
▶ 3:05:31Okay. I think it will be important because as uh I know very well and you know very well these are investigations that have a finite suspense to them and so these are not kind of like kicking the can down the road and I I hope that you will commit today to sharing the results of that investigation with this
▶ 3:05:48I'd be happy to sir.
▶ 3:05:49Thank you. With that I yield back.
▶ 3:05:52Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes gentleman from New Jersey Dr. You took me by surprise there, Mr. Chairman. Um, uh, gentlemen, thank you for presenting, uh, yourself to us. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for ranking member for holding this hearing. I first want to extend my thoughts and prayers to the families who loved ones who've who are currently serving around the world.
▶ 3:06:18We've lost 14 service members, hundreds have been injured. Um, I and I should say at the outset um that these are the the dearest costs of war. as I don't need uh to tell you uh but often don't get calculated uh when we talk about the costs of war to the American people uh the budget um numbers that need to be put aside to deal with the veterans the families who um who go on living and and need care.
▶ 3:06:47Um gentlemen um u admiral and um general uh your job is obviously a very tough one and you have to execute orders given by the commander-in-chief as as is your responsibility. Um and I want to acknowledge work that you have undertaken on behalf of our our country.
▶ 3:07:08Um I am dismayed to hear statements about no quarter and um we're going to wipe out of civilization and um I just have to raise that as a person sitting on this panel. I know that you uh really can't answer that. Well, you did answer it.
▶ 3:07:24you said, "We're going to follow uh the rules, the the um the law of armed conflict, and I appreciate that, and that gives not only myself, but other members uh on this panel, I think, in the services as well, uh of your commitment uh to that. Um I'm also dismayed that there doesn't appear to be a strategy to end this war with all deliberate speed. Uh and um it's concerning obviously to the American people giving uh the costs associated with this war.
▶ 3:07:53Recently, Yale came out with a study that American people are spending $40 billion on on fuel cost. That American families are going to spend about $3,500 uh on uh on such expenses at year's end. Uh and of course uh sadly the president has said that this microeconomy, this this household economy is not important to him. Those are paraphrasing his own statements.
▶ 3:08:19Uh but it is important uh to my constituents and to the many people across this country who understand uh that they are paying for this war and because the American people are paying for this war uh they have a right to know uh what strategy is going to be undertaken to end this war. Uh so Mr. Zimmerman uh could you um please outline um how we're going to get uh to the end of this conflict?
▶ 3:08:46This conflict is not going to be ended in my view by military action alone. It's going to take negotiation. You've had waffling back and forth. It's over. It's not over. We're going to get a deal. It's not We don't have a deal. Uh and it doesn't appear um to the American people, and rightly so, uh that we have a plan uh to end this conflict. So, can you enlighten us?
▶ 3:09:07How are we going to get to the end of this conflict and put a stop uh to the enormous strain that is placing on our on our budgets as a nation and on the micro budgets of the many people uh in this country who have to get about the business of living and working and and raising their family and and preparing for the future.
▶ 3:09:27Mr. Congressman, thank you. As you know, we have a ceasefire and that is the current state of affairs
▶ 3:09:32with a blockade going on. But go ahead. Yeah. And the White House is engaged in high level negotiations uh to reach a resolution uh that will be in the interest of the American people and advance their safety and prosperity.
▶ 3:09:46Any idea again when we're going to get to the end of this conflict and end it? Personally, I have to tell you I think we should declare victory and leave and get our people home. Best way to protect them uh is to pull them out of this conflict and lower uh with uh the appropriate cautions our uh presence uh there in that region and repair begin to repair the the great damage that this war has caused uh to our allies and to the world uh economy. Um never mind uh and to understate the damage to our own economy. Let me uh move on.
▶ 3:10:16Um and getting back to this again this cost question on April 29th uh the committee was provided um uh information on the costs of war. The comroller was here and said provided a number of 25 billion. At that time we've heard repeatedly in the press that it's a billion dollar a day and more and now it's somewhat um almost 30 days later. Oh not quite 30 days later but uh now we're told that the number has just risen to 25 billion.
▶ 3:10:43seems out of step with what we're hearing about what the daily costs of war are and I am concerned that we're not adequately accounting for the veterans and their care going forward. So what are the costs of war? What can you tell us and when will you report to us as you promised and others?
▶ 3:10:58Gentleman's time's expired chair and I recognize gentleman from Missouri, Mr.
▶ 3:11:03Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. General Anderson, it's good to see you again and I appreciate you taking the time last month to discuss the challenges facing your AO. I want to begin with Sincan. In the past few months, several of our bases in the region have been targeted and severely damaged.
▶ 3:11:24More than 200 military assets, including hangers, barracks, radar systems, and other critical infrastructure relied upon by our service members, have also reportedly been destroyed or damaged. Simultaneously, the Pentagon's projected cost of this unauthorized war appears to continue shifting from roughly 25 billion one day to 29 billion the next.
▶ 3:11:49Importantly, those estimates still do not appear to include milcon requirements needed to repair and rebuild damaged installation and bases. The Pentagon controller has stated publicly that those costs are not yet included because quote, "We do not know what our future posture is going to be." End quote.
▶ 3:12:12That uncertainty risks sending the wrong signal to regional partners and allies at a time when many already question America's long-term commitment and staying power in the region.
▶ 3:12:25Admiral Cooper, you even said before your confirmation hearing that, and I'm going to quote, "Military ties with regional partners enhances the United States deterrence efforts and ability to respond to crisis." End Admiral Cooper, do you stand by that,
▶ 3:12:46Congressman? Absolutely. And we've seen this play out in very pragmatic terms with regional
▶ 3:12:52I'm going to reclaim my time just because it's I'm short on time. Do our bases in forward posture in the SCCOM A provide strategic advantages critical to US global force projection, deterrence, and st regional stability?
▶ 3:13:06Absolutely, sir. Now, in your opinion, would further posture reductions or base closures undermine our global global standing or create opportunities for adversaries like Iran, Russia or China to expand their influence? I think those decisions are ultimately done by from a policy perspective but from a military perspective uh our our posture is very helpful and we've seen that play out in our achievements during this operation
▶ 3:13:32and post and reducing that posture could um have um negative impacts
▶ 3:13:39hypothetically yes sir
▶ 3:13:41okay um Mr. Zimmerman, is this administration actively considering additional posture reductions in the region once the unauthorized war ends?
▶ 3:13:55Uh, Congressman, I'm I'm not aware of any active consider, you know, right now we're focused on uh
▶ 3:14:00you answered it. You don't you're not aware you're saying that you you're not aware of any active considerations to for of reductions.
▶ 3:14:08We we are we constantly review and evaluate our posture considerations. If there are any future posture decisions related to Sentcom or any theater, they would be done in full appreciation for the threats and the factors that pertain to that.
▶ 3:14:23But but currently, are you considering any additional posture reductions in the
▶ 3:14:27I'm I'm not aware of any current
▶ 3:14:30because what concerns me is that we are creating significant uncertainty for our allies because of this war. The objectives have repeatedly shifted. the goalposts continue to move and we risk drawing ourselves into an open-ended quagmire.
▶ 3:14:46At the same time, across the globe, this administration appears to be re-evaluating posture which does nothing but increase skepticism from our allies from Germany to delays involving a brigade deployment to Poland and now growing uncertainty surrounding our long-term posture in Sinccom.
▶ 3:15:05We can't continue pursuing policies that create instabil instability in our global posture, weaken confidence amongst our allies and partners, and ultimately create openings for our adversaries to expand their influence. And so, quickly, I want to shift gears to African, African General Anderson, following up on our previous discussion regarding instability and extremist threats in North Africa. How does Ariccom currently assess the evolving threat environment across the region?
▶ 3:15:36I appreciate that. We see the terrorists continuing to uh take advantage of ungoverned space across Africa, primarily in West Africa as you as you highlighted. So this is why our focus is uh illuminating that and understanding what that threat is doing.
▶ 3:15:49And I want to say this real quick. Where do you see the greatest risks as well as opportunities for the United States to strengthen regional partnerships and counter violent extremism? I think the greatest opportunities are with those willing and able partners. Right now, we've seen that with some like Morocco, Nigeria, Kenya, uh, and others. There's many other countries, but finding those willing and able partners and partnering with them is where we see the greatest opportunity to counter this threat.
▶ 3:16:12Gentlemen's time's expired. Uh, this this will bring us to the conclusion of the open portion of today's hearing. We will now adjourn this hearing and reconvene in room 2212 at 1:15.