▶ 0:07:12Is preventing fraudulent donations, transparency, verification and accountability. I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain open for five legislative days, so members may submit any materials they wish to be included therein. Further, without objection, chairman jordan and ranking member raskin of the judiciary committee and chairman, comer and ranking member garcia.
▶ 0:07:38The committee on oversight and government reform will wave onto the committee on house administration for this hearing for the purpose of providing opening statements and questions. The witness. Thank you, ranking member morelli, members of the committee and our witnesses for participating in today's hearing. Let me also thank chairman jordan and chairman comer for joining us today and their partnership in this investigation. We believe in a principle that only americans should decide.
▶ 0:08:05American elections act blue has violated that principle. Miss wallace jones is here today because there's a significant concern that act blue may have allowed foreign donations on their platform, lied to congress, and withheld responsive documents from a congressional subpoena. All three of those actions are illegal.
▶ 0:08:26In 2023, I opened an investigation into act blue following reports that foreign actors were exploiting the platform to funnel money to to funnel money to american political campaigns. As part of that investigation, I sent this letter to act blue, asking basic questions about its fraud prevention practices.
▶ 0:08:47In response, act blue ceo regina wallace jones wrote to me in this letter, claiming that act blue had a robust approach to rooting out potential foreign contributions. However, according to the new york times act, blue's outside legal counsel reviewed miss wallace jones response and found that it proposed that it that it posed a substantial risk for act blue.
▶ 0:09:15Specifically, the concern was that miss wallace jones's letters may have been false or misleading. In her letter, miss wallace jones identified three steps actblue takes to prevent foreign donations. One. Donors using a foreign address must provide U.S. passport information. Two if a contribution appears to be from a foreign address, act blue contacts the donor to request U.S. passport information in three.
▶ 0:09:42The contribution is refunded if actblue is unable to contact the donor. The new york times reported that act blue's outside counsel determined those three steps are not always followed. In fact, outside counsel outside counsel warned that passport information was never requested for transactions made through third party apps like paypal and venmo.
▶ 0:10:07Outside counsel also warned act blue that some of the funds received were impermissible contributions from foreign nationals. This committee issued subpoenas for documents related to fraudulent and foreign donations and alleged misconduct by actblue staff. The documents provided by actblue revealed alarming directives from its leadership to lower fraud standards.
▶ 0:10:29In actblue meeting notes turned over to this committee, staff were instructed, quote, remember that we that we want to look for reasons to accept contributions. Do not reject contributions for a single suspicious characteristic. Look for the forest and not the trees, end quote. According to those same notes, actblue staff was told that this guidance was a bit antithetical to prior feedback about contributions deemed highly suspicious.
▶ 0:11:01Further, in actblue memo titled fraud prevention 101 for new associates in the workflow advises that, quote, if an otherwise legitimate donor uses a fake name, we would want to accept their donation, end quote. We have additional evidence of actblue detecting at least 22 significant fraud campaigns. Nine of those fraud campaigns had a foreign nexus.
▶ 0:11:26After receiving this information, we just deposed and interviewed five former actblue employees. When deposed, actblue employees refused to answer a single question. Instead, they invoked the fifth amendment 146 times. We gave actblue employees an opportunity to answer our questions, but they refused. But now, miss wallace jones, you have a real opportunity to explain how this occurred. Miss wallace jones agreed.
▶ 0:11:55Originally agreed to appear voluntarily before us this morning, but late monday afternoon, her lawyers requested a subpoena in order for her to appear. A subpoena was provided. Miss wallace jones is now before us. I look forward to your answers to our questions. Congress and the american people deserve the truth. With that, I'll now yield to the ranking member, Mr. morelli, for the purpose of his opening statement.
▶ 0:12:27>> thank you, Mr. chairman. The integrity of our democracy depends on the integrity of a campaign finance system. Corruption in campaigns yields, corruption in government. When corporations and billionaires can buy politicians, americans everywhere recognize that our campaign finance system is corrupt. The proof is right in front of us. The president's campaign accepted piles and piles of dark money from corporations and billionaires, while republicans cheered him on.
▶ 0:12:56In fact, the nonpartisan professional staff at the federal elections commission found potential campaign finance violations in 32 instances involving president trump. Yet in all, 32 republican fec commissioners blocked any investigation into potential violations of law, knowing that republicans will shield them from accountability.
▶ 0:13:18The administration is awash with insider trading and self-enrichment look no further than the $1.8 billion slush fund, a fund to reward criminals who assaulted capitol police officers on january 6th. The president is trying to force on the american people look no further than the republican majority, which slashed health care for millions of americans while cutting taxes for their billionaire donors.
▶ 0:13:41The american people understand that congressional republicans and this administration willingly tolerate corruption when it benefits them. So it's outrageous, but hardly surprising that this republican majority has flat out refused to investigate critical, credible reports of fraud, abuse and corruption on the republican fundraising platform.
▶ 0:14:03When reid refused to investigate winred for facilitating documented illegal foreign contributions that flowed through winred to president trump's campaign, why haven't republicans attempted to investigate the chinese national who reportedly contributed thousands to president trump via winred, according to public reporting, a chinese businessman illegally contributed $5,000 to the trump campaign in 2024. What do house republicans have to say about this corruption? Not a word.
▶ 0:14:34Deafening silence. And it doesn't end there. Public reporting shows that winred, quote, victimized hundreds of elderly americans and misled those battling dementia in an examination of trump, campaign account shows that numerous donors listed their addresses. 999 anonymous drive when contributing to the president. That is clear evidence of fraud. Those donors could be foreign nationals. These donors possibly committed crimes, but house republicans have done nothing to investigate that.
▶ 0:15:05The cost of corruption is real. It hurts americans in so many ways, including their bank accounts. But president trump simply does not care about regular americans. Don't believe me? Take him at his word. The president conceded just last month he doesn't think about the financial pain of american citizens.
▶ 0:15:21Yet house republicans will do anything to protect him, even as gas and grocery prices skyrocket, as our economy crumbles and americans lose faith in their ability to achieve the american dream, republicans won't investigate the clear pattern of fraud and criminality on winred precisely because the fraud benefits donald trump. Because the money goes to the trump campaign and to other republican campaigns. Republicans investigation today is not about safeguarding american elections.
▶ 0:15:49It's not about protecting american voters. It's about punishing enemies of the president and shielding his allies. And this all fits a pattern. Just look at this corrupt, doj's vindictive, politically motivated prosecutions, which have been repeatedly thrown out of court. Just look at the president's attempted slush fund for insurrectionists and criminals, for people who violently attacked police. The corruption is visible to everyone, but republicans refuse to do anything to end it.
▶ 0:16:20So owing to the majority's dereliction of duty, house democrats have stepped into the gap. We sent a letter asking the treasury department for information related to financial irregularities on winred. We sent a letter to the federal trade commission seeking information on allegations of fraud and abuse on winred. The trump administration stonewalled both requests. We sent letters to the republican attorneys general of virginia and texas seeking information on potential crimes committed by winred. Neither responded.
▶ 0:16:48So this morning we sent a letter to winred asking for information related to foreign contributions and fraud on their platform. Critically, our letter made it clear that winred must retain all information relevant to future investigations into fraud, abuse or criminality on behalf of winred when there is clear evidence of fraud, deceptive fundraising methods or potential foreign contributions in american elections, congress has a duty to investigate. House republicans have not taken that duty seriously.
▶ 0:17:17But next year, rest assured, committee democrats will the american people deserve confidence that our elections belong to americans, not to foreign actors, not to fraudsters, and not to special interests? That's the standard congress should demand. That's the standard house democrats will uphold next year.
▶ 0:17:33Before I yield back, I'd ask for unanimous consent to enter two things into the record the june 1st letter ranking members raskin, garcia and I sent to attorney general paxton regarding winred and today's letter to winred seeking documents and h. Res. Transcribed interview. And with that, Mr. chair, I yield back. >> without objection. So ordered, I now yield five minutes to the chairman of the judiciary committee, Mr. jordan. Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Everything is fine. Everything is fine. We're not taking foreign contributions.
▶ 0:18:03That's what miss wallace jones said in november 2023, responding to a letter from the chairman, she said passport information is required from donors providing an address outside the united states, quote, we have multi-layered screenings in place to root out foreign contributions. She put it in, in in a letter, put it in writing in a letter to congress. Now, the only problem is actblue is outside counsel, as the chairman said, sent a memo to miss wallace jones where they said things were a little different than what she described to congress.
▶ 0:18:33They said acts blues response to congress was not entirely accurate. They said, quote, actblue did not have the rigor in its review of overseas donations that was required or that it described to congress, quote, there's a substantial risk. Some of the funds were impermissible contributions from foreign nationals, and actblue staff was aware that its system was not as robust as necessary, making these contributions appear. Listen here. Knowing and willful.
▶ 0:19:02There's intent right there, knowing and willful and an effort to conceal. Wow. Knowing and willful. Not entirely accurate response to congress in an effort to conceal, you know, what they call that? They call that lying. So the question is, are you going to believe the law firm or actblue? Now, a few things to consider when you're asking, when you're evaluating that, that question that we've uncovered, the committees have uncovered.
▶ 0:19:28First, there's just the general suspicious activity, foreign ip addresses with 237 contributions in one day, 1700 transactions in seven days where the donors country did not match the country of the donors ip address. That seems fishy. Second, the documents the committee obtained obtained did not square with miss wallace jones response to congress. We had one blue employee who, in an email said changes we have made over the last year have already met.
▶ 0:19:58We're accepting more fraud. So there was already some fraud. They changed their standards, so they were accepting more fraud. At blue, board member kimberly peeler allen admitted up to quote, 38 million in actblue contributions in 2024 had signs of a foreign origin.
▶ 0:20:16Third, as the chairman said, there were five people on the fraud prevention team at actblue who were concerned about foreign contributions, and all five have either resigned, been fired or been placed on leave. All five, the manager of the day to day fraud prevention resigned. Vice president of customer service in charge of fraud prevention for 2024. Resigned.
▶ 0:20:40Top lawyers at actblue general counsel darren horowitz fired given $170,000 severance package. As long as he didn't say anything without first checking with actblue. Aaron ting, associate general counsel, resigns. Actblue refuses to give us, even though we've asked for it, his resignation letter and legal counsel zain ahmad resigns after being retaliated against for blowing the whistle to the board about what was going on.
▶ 0:21:09And as the chairman mentioned, we deposed all five of them in every single one of them, 146 times, took the fifth. This is a tale as old as time. You get caught doing something wrong, and when you're questioned about it, you deny it. And when evidence emerges and questions persist, you take the fifth. Take the fifth. Now why would all that happen? Why would all that happen?
▶ 0:21:36Well, I think there's probably 3.8 billion reasons why all that happened. $3.8 billion actblue took in in the 2024 election cycle. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. And we know that there's something going on here, and that's why the investigation persists. And our investigation is different than what the justice department is doing. But we appreciate what they're doing, too. And mostly, I want to thank this committee.
▶ 0:22:03I want to thank chairman style, this committee for the work they've done. But for that letter sent, we might not have figured this out. So I appreciate the chairman, the good work he's doing, and I yield back. >> gentleman yields back. The ranking member of the judiciary committee, Mr. raskin, is recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you kindly, Mr. chairman, ranking member morelli, for the invitation. It's great to be back here in the intimate quarters of the house administration committee.
▶ 0:22:29Um, the hearing is called preventing fraudulent donations, transparency, verification and accountability. That sounds like a valuable inquiry to me. The problem is that, as we all know, that's not what the hearing is really about.
▶ 0:22:44If it were, our colleagues would have first submitted testimony from the ceo of winred, the fundraising platform that has generated hundreds and hundreds of serious fraud complaints from individual americans, mostly republicans, including a lot of elderly americans and americans with disabilities who say they've been robbed, blind, hoodwinked by winred, in many cases fleeced out of their life savings.
▶ 0:23:12But the republican chairs of our committees have repeatedly refused to conduct any oversight or investigation into the winred platform that processes donations for over 7800 gop campaigns and committees across the united states, including all the gop senators in 97% of gop house members. Well, that's just not a serious approach to the problem.
▶ 0:23:34This hearing is really part of a political vengeance and vendetta campaign that yesterday came to the house judiciary committee in the form of a four hour hearing interrogating the president of the southern poverty law center. After the 2020 election, banks and credit card issuers estimated that winred fraud cases constituted as much as 3% of their total national fraud workload across all transactions.
▶ 0:24:03That is a shockingly large share, given that there are 150 million credit card transactions that american consumers and businesses engage in every single day in the country between january 2022 and june 2024, the ftc received more than 800 complaints about winred, nearly seven times the number. It got about actblue in the final months of 2020 alone.
▶ 0:24:28The trump campaign rnc and their shared accounts had to issue more than 530 000 refunds worth more than $64 million. That's more than 11 times the amount that the biden campaign and the democratic committees had to refund. And yet, who have the administration and our gop colleagues focused on exclusively from the beginning? Actblue, the company that primarily processes contributions for democratic campaigns around the country.
▶ 0:24:58Last april, the white house issued a presidential memorandum directing the ag and treasury to, quote, use all lawful authority to investigate actblue, which, according to the white house, facilitated straw or dummy contributions or foreign contributions to political candidates and committees. But as americans can see each day, every accusation by this administration is an admission, every allegation, a confession, every charge, a self indictment.
▶ 0:25:27The arraignment of actblue is an admission about winred continuing serious fraud against their donors. An associated press review of president trump's political committees found more than 1600 contributions from unverified donors who lived abroad, had close ties to foreign interests, or failed to disclose basic identifying information. Many of those contributions came through winred.
▶ 0:25:52Ap reported that one chinese businessman gave $5,000 to trump through winred while listing a la quinta inn as his home address. Other contributions came from unnamed donors. Listing 999 anonymous drive as their address. Another series of winred contributions listed the donor's address as a vacant building in washington that turned out to be a defunct funeral home.
▶ 0:26:18Where is all of the righteous outrage about these abuses? Where is the mobilization of taxpayer resources to investigate winred, where, as attorney general ken paxton, who was impeached by the texas house of representatives for bribery, securities fraud, abuse of office and obstruction of justice, attorney general paxton sued actblue in april, but his office has ignored complaint after complaint from
▶ 0:26:49Texas constituents about the allegations of fraud and abuse related to winred, who were the victims of winred that ken paxton deliberately ignores. Well, one texas woman tried to make a small, one time contributions to republican candidates that she supported.
▶ 0:27:08When reid emptied more than $15,000 out of her bank account, including charging her account 29 times in one day, she wrote to attorney general paxton that she, quote, didn't realize they were sucking my life savings out of my bank account. He never even wrote her back. And if that's how partizan republicans treat republicans, you can imagine how they're going to treat everybody else in the country.
▶ 0:27:35We, I you don't want me to discuss these other complainants. >> the gentleman's the gentleman's time has expired. Okay. The ranking member of the oversight and government reform committee, Mr. garcia, is recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Appreciate being here. And I want to just begin by echoing, of course, ranking member morelli and ranking member raskin. Um, the biggest fraud in this country that we should be talking about is happening at the white house.
▶ 0:28:02We're not talking about the $1.8 billion slush fund. We're not talking about the clear selling or influence of pardons and what's happening at the white house. We're not talking about the $2 billion that jared kushner got two months after leaving the white house for an investment fund that's made no return. We're not talking about the possible trump family pay to play schemes and scandals that are happening across the world as president trump tries to do diplomacy. And the trump family follows up with real estate deals.
▶ 0:28:32We're here because republicans want to talk about actblue, not because they're serious about strengthening campaign finance laws or actually strengthening the abuse of fraud in this country. Now, we should all support and and work to strengthen security, prevent fraud, stop interference in foreign elections. And certainly, if there are ways to improve platforms across this country, public or private, that should be the focus.
▶ 0:29:00But if republicans were serious about that goal, they wouldn't be exclusively focused on actblue. They'd also be examining the winred platform with the exact same level of scrutiny. Now, a real investigation into when red would raise serious questions. The trump campaign, as has been mentioned through winred, has accepted thousands of contributions that reportedly lacked basic identifying information required under campaign finance law.
▶ 0:29:29Now, according to reporting, president trump received more than 1000 contributions that omitted key identifying information such as city, state address, county, and he also received contributions from donors whose names were incomplete, listed as anonymous or marked name not provided. So there are concerns. And sure, there are concerns about foreign donations as well as it relates to winred.
▶ 0:29:52Now, one example involved the chinese businessman whose contribution to the trump campaign listed an address in la quinta, california. Now, public records identified him as actually living in china and described him as a chinese national. Now, if republicans are concerned about foreign money in politics, they should be investigating those allegations with the same enthusiasm that they're bringing to actblue.
▶ 0:30:17But perhaps the most troubling allegations involving winred actually don't even concern foreign money. They concern winred victimizing american donors themselves. In fact, republican donors, as was raised by ranking member raskin. Now, cnn reported that there was 182 year old woman living in a modest baltimore apartment who unknowingly gave more than $350,000 to republican causes through recurring donations.
▶ 0:30:45Another donor, an 80 year old californian who later died of lung cancer, contributed more than $180,000 and just had $250 left in her bank account when she passed away. Now, these stories raise real concerns about winred use of prechecked recurring donation boxes and confusing solicitations that many consumers, seniors and others have had a hard time understanding.
▶ 0:31:14Now, according to cnn, winred has been the subject of hundreds of complaints to the federal trade commission, far more, by the way, than comparable complaints involving any democratic fundraising platforms. Yet it's interesting that we're only focused on actblue now. Winred also faced scrutiny over aggressive text messaging practices, and multiple state attorneys general have investigated its recurring donation policies.
▶ 0:31:39Yet today's hearing ignores, of course, all of that, because this is not a serious effort to improve campaign finance compliance. It is a partizan exercise designed to protect donald trump, to protect winred and attack democrats and political opponents.
▶ 0:32:00If the committee wants a real investigation into a campaign fundraising practices, let's examine everyone and let's follow the facts where they lead, not pretend to have some kind of investigation that only really is going after one side. And with that, I yield back. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back. Without objection, all other members opening statements will be made part of the hearing record. If they're submitted to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. Today, as our witness today, we have miss regina wallace jones, the ceo of actblue.
▶ 0:32:29Miss wallace jones, will you please stand and raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Let the record show that the witness answered in the affirmative. You may be seated. I'll begin our questions today, followed by the ranking member.
▶ 0:32:54Foreign funds have no place in american political campaigns. American elections are for american citizens only. Miss wallace jones, in 2023. I sent you this letter with five straightforward questions, with a goal of confirming that foreign funds are not in our elections and that actblue had adequate fraud prevention measures in place.
▶ 0:33:19You replied a month later with a four page letter describing your fraud prevention policies and procedures that have that you had in place at actblue. But according to the new york times, your response to this committee may have been false and misleading. Miss wallace jones, when you signed this letter to me, did you believe that this letter was false and misleading?
▶ 0:33:47>> on the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer this question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> miss wallace jones, before you sent this letter, did you believe was it was it brought to your attention that this letter that you sent me was false and misleading. >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution.
▶ 0:34:18>> well, I think it's important for everybody here to know that, according to the new york times, you've been aware for quite a while that the response you made was likely false or misleading. Did you ever consider correcting the record for this committee when it was brought to your attention that your letter to me was false and misleading? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question. Pursuant to the attorney client privilege and my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> it's pretty interesting.
▶ 0:34:46So now you're following the advice of your legal counsel, but you didn't when they warned you that your letter to me was false and misleading, your letter claimed that passport information is required from donors providing an address outside the united states. In november 2023. When you wrote that letter, did every actblue donation that provided an address outside the united states require passport information.
▶ 0:35:14>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> okay. Your letter also claimed that actblue would contact a donor to request passport information if the contribution appeared to be from a foreign address. And you told this committee that the contribution would be refunded if actblue was unable to make contact with the donor, is that correct?
▶ 0:35:40>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> well, we have reason to believe that your letter in 2023 was not correct, because, according to the new york times, donations that were made through third party apps like paypal or venmo, that passport information was not always required. So what's true? The 2023 letter you sent me, or the new york times article?
▶ 0:36:13>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> after you sent me the 2023 letter, actblue weakened its fraud prevention rules twice in 2024. Quote, even after internal assessments confirmed that these policy changes would lead to more fraudulent donations, end quote.
▶ 0:36:41Did you weaken fraud prevention standards to increase donations on the actblue platform? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> miss wallace jones, I want to make clear for the hearing record, you've been asked legitimate questions that are intended to elicit information. The committee has the right to have to aid our inquiry.
▶ 0:37:09You've refused to answer the questions. Are you formally asserting your fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination? Today. >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> for the record, I think it's important to know that we invited you to come here today to testify.
▶ 0:37:37Originally, you were coming voluntarily. On monday, your attorneys reached out to this committee and requested a subpoena for you to testify. We provided you that subpoena. You're here today. You have an opportunity to testify, and you have chosen to take your fifth amendment constitutional right. I'll now recognize the ranking member, Mr. morelli, for five minutes for the purpose of asking his questions. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:38:07When it comes to upholding the integrity of american elections, when it comes to protecting and defending the rule of law, sadly, republicans are absent without leave, distracted by their pretextual partizan investigation into democratic fundraising, republicans ignored the fire raging in their own house. So if republicans on this committee afraid of crossing donald trump refused to investigate this corruption, democrats will. Let's begin with the chinese businessman who used winred to illegally funnel money to president trump.
▶ 0:38:36Public reporting indicated that jim jordan jack zhang, a jet setting chinese businessman, used winred to illegally send $5,000 to president trump's campaign listing a california hotel as his address. How did win reed's internal legal compliance system allow this? Why wasn't this contribution? And potentially scores of others like it blocked committee. Republicans don't seem to care about the answers to these questions. So democrats have stepped up. We began our own investigation.
▶ 0:39:07What did we find? Democrats found that while Mr. zhang was corruptly funneling money through winred, he was allegedly involved in a poker tournament at a casino that once owed a $3.1 million settlement to the california justice department for violating the bank secrecy act, a casino that also paid, incidentally, a $2.8 million penalty to the treasury department's financial crimes enforcement network, a casino that, on a separate occasion, admitted that it failed to properly follow federal
▶ 0:39:38Anti-money laundering laws. What was this chinese national who we know was channeling illegal money to president trump really doing at the casino? Who was he meeting with? Why do house republicans refuse to investigate this egregious violation of federal law? Is it because the corrupt illegal money flowed through winred to president trump? Let's take another example.
▶ 0:39:59A no doubt imaginary person identified only as alex a, gave nearly $5,000 to president trump's campaign in 2024 through winred. This alex person listed an address for 28th street northeast, just a few blocks from where we're sitting right now. This was not a one off mistake or a clerical.
▶ 0:40:22This was someone using a false name to explicitly break the law to the tune of over 40 problematic donations through winred over the course of more than a year. This is not one of those hard to find cases where someone tries to cover their tracks. It's as clear as day. Anyone could tell you that alex a is a pseudonym that alex a does not, in fact, reside at four 28th street northeast.
▶ 0:40:46Because four 28th street northeast is a defunct funeral home in a vacant building near union station, a building that has been vacant for over seven years. How did winred not catch any of this? Why aren't we investigating this clear pattern of fraud, of illegality, of corruption? What are house republicans covering up? It's as clear as day why we're actually here today.
▶ 0:41:11Anyone watching today knows a hearing on, quote, preventing fraudulent donations without looking into winred is not a serious proceeding. If we as a committee are truly interested in combating fraudulent political donations, we would be undertaking a good faith effort to understand the problem and to discuss solutions. But republicans are not interested in solutions. They're interested in a partizan witch hunt.
▶ 0:41:33Last week, democrats on house judiciary, on judiciary and oversight and government reform sent a letter to texas attorney general ken paxton seeking information related to his investigations, if any, on winred. We set a deadline for response. It was this past monday, june 8th. Attorney general paxton ignored us. So now, Mr. chairman, it's time this committee to start taking our duty to protect american voters, protect american elections.
▶ 0:41:59Seriously, americans deserve to know what winred is hiding, what republicans are hiding. It's time for us to draw a line in the sand to make clear that regardless of partizanship, no one is above the law. And with that, Mr. chairman, pursuant to clause two k six of rule 11, I move that the committee subpoena warren kenneth paxton jr, the attorney general of texas. >> I recognize the motion to hold it in abeyance until the end of the hearing. >> uh, thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:42:28I yield back my time. >> the gentleman yields back in deference to the chair of the and the ranking member of the full committee. I now recognize the chairman of the judiciary committee, Mr. jordan, for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. garcia, in his opening statement, said, we're here because republicans are playing politics. Let's be clear, we're here because. Act blues legal counsel said miss wallace jones lied to congress willfully and knowingly misled the congress of the united states. That's why we're here. Oh, by the way, who was her? Who was the legal counsel?
▶ 0:42:58Covington burling, who was her counsel? Dana remus, not some republican. She was former white house counsel for joe biden. That's who said that. That's why we're here. So I just have a couple questions for you, miss wallace jones, just a couple. Your board chairman said actblue accepted up to 38 million contributions in 2024. That had the signs of foreign origin. How much fraud is too much fraud?
▶ 0:43:22>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> how many foreign contributions did actblue accept. >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> how much money did actblue accept from russia.
▶ 0:43:51>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> why did your entire legal team quit your in-house legal team? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question. Pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> did your legal team quit because of reduced fraud standards?
▶ 0:44:22>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question. Pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> and we won't keep you here all day. But let me just do one more. Did you weaken your fraud standards to help democrats? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question. Pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> Mr.
▶ 0:44:48Chairman, I again, I appreciate the good work you and your committee are doing, and with that, I would yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from north carolina. >> thank you for appearing today. I'm sorry that this has turned into a partizan exercise. The american people deserve the truth. Truth in everything. I'm not going to disagree with some of my democratic colleagues that say they want truth, um, from other fundraising platforms. I want this to.
▶ 0:45:16But the fact is these were egregious practices that were put forth by actblue that are well documented. Do you regret any of the things that you said or any of the things that actblue has done in the past in regards to foreign donations? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution.
▶ 0:45:44>> if you had the chance to pick another place to be employed, would you have joined actblue. >> on the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question. >> well, you. >> seem very into my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> I am amazed at the number of attorneys that are behind you to be able to coach you to say these things. Um, it's really that's quite an expense actblue is going to have. Um, it's just a tragedy that we're here today on partizan grounds.
▶ 0:46:13Um, we can't get to the truth. This is what the american people have asked congress to do. They ask us to get to the truth. They don't talk about money to go into ukraine. They don't talk about, uh, you know, joe biden wanting to make sure that he gets paid. Um, they just want the truth.
▶ 0:46:28And the fact that you guys have literally allowed, continued and agreed with foreign intervention in our elections just because of monetary, um, consequences, which help certain types of candidates, in my opinion, is horrible, disgusting, egregious, and sadly unpatriotic and un-american. I wish I could ask you more, but I know what the answers are going to be. Um, I pray we get to this.
▶ 0:46:55Maybe we'll get to this in a court of law. It seems like that's where things are going these days. So if you got to plead the fifth, that's fair. I guess we end up. So, um, thank you for coming today. I'll yield back the remainder of the time. >> the gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the judiciary committee, Mr. raskin, for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions. >> thank you kindly, Mr. chairman. Um, republican donor from fort worth complained that winred is siphoned $11,000 from his account without any personal authorization from him.
▶ 0:47:26He wrote, I'm 81 years old and I've been taken advantage of. He's still waiting for a response from attorney general paxton. Why isn't he here today testifying about what's actually taking place to our people?
▶ 0:47:39Cnn reported that 182 year old woman wearing pajamas with holes in them when they interviewed her because she didn't want to spend money on new pajamas, was swindled of more than $350,000 of her life savings that she had no idea she was giving to republicans through winred. This is what real fraud looks like. Why don't we investigate it?
▶ 0:48:03Attorney general paxton, who himself uses winred, systematically ignored all of these desperate constituent complaints. But somehow, the day after james talarico, Mr. paxton's opponent in his senate race, raised a remarkable $2.5 million in a 24 hour period from actblue, Mr. paxton suddenly decided to investigate actblue and dispatch undercover investigators to troll actblue business practices.
▶ 0:48:29Meantime, paxton has consistently ignored oversight letters. Ranking members morelli, garcia and I have sent to him. But whistleblowers come forward every day about winred fraud. Just this week, my office got a whistleblower tip from a woman in colorado, a registered republican, who said she gave $100 through winred, which winred turned into recurring weekly $100 contributions without her permission.
▶ 0:48:56She's been fighting over these fraudulent charges since february, contacting winred and the republican national committee, but has gotten absolutely nowhere. So she reached out to my office for help. And if that's the way that republicans treat republicans, it makes sense to me that donald trump has the lowest opinion ratings of any president in decades. But it's not just paxton covering up winred fraud. Last summer, we asked the treasury department to turn over all suspicious activity reports.
▶ 0:49:23Uh, its financial monitors have gotten related to winred. And we asked ftc chair andrew ferguson to turn over all complaints related to winred. Cnn has revealed that winred had been used to defraud hundreds of elderly americans and mislead specifically people battling dementia and other cognitive impairments, including, uh, alzheimer's disease, into giving away millions of dollars far more than they ever
▶ 0:49:54Intended, far more than their families could afford. But the treasury department and the ftc have refused to turn over any documents or even answer our letters. They've refused to explain why they won't turn over the documents. But one detail in cnn's report provides a hint the single biggest beneficiary of all these small dollar donations from these unwitting recurring donors was none other than donald trump, the founder of trump university.
▶ 0:50:21There are some obvious things that we can and should do to stop online fundraising abuse across the board. Politically. In 2021, the fec recommended that congress ban prechecked recurring donation boxes so we would know that any recurring donations are unauthorized and legal. That would have prevented many, if not most, of the deplorable, fraudulent practices that have swindled millions and millions of dollars of people's life savings in texas and all across the country.
▶ 0:50:49That was common sense when it was unanimously recommended by the fec. And it's common sense today. Can we agree to that? How about today? I'd support that today, but I fear this hearing is not about making any positive policy changes. Uh, it's about hauling in the ceo of actblue, forcing her to take the fifth amendment. You know, donald trump's taking the fifth amendment 440 times.
▶ 0:51:12So before anybody starts denouncing the constitution of the united states, think about what you say about people who invoke the fifth amendment against petty political vendettas and, and prosecutions. Um, so this is exactly the kind of thing that the fifth amendment was designed to be there for. The supreme court has said the fifth amendment protects the innocent as well as the guilty people who might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.
▶ 0:51:38And we can see today also ensnared by political vendettas and partizan investigations, instead of seriously looking at a problem and trying to address it, that's what we should be doing there. Obviously, problems across the board. Most of them relate to winred, but I'm sure some of them could relate to actblue too. Why aren't we seriously addressing that? Why does everything have to be the occasion for partizan exploitation and persecution, instead of actually doing the business of the public?
▶ 0:52:05So we're waiting for a lot of answers from winred. I hope that we will get them, and I hope that we can have real change with a real investigation and a real hearing. I yield back and thank you, Mr. chairman. >> the gentleman yields back the gentleman from georgia, Mr. loudermilk, is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Um, look, there's serious allegations that have been made against actblue, and, uh, they're they're exceptional in in these these allegations.
▶ 0:52:34And either they're true or they're not. And this is part of what we're here trying to determine. But what is amazing to me is my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have not addressed one of these allegations. If I was you, I'd be a little offended because not a single one of them has come to your defense. Every one of them have deflected to something else. Let's let's look a little bit at some of the allegations.
▶ 0:53:03The fact actblue, in its own words, decided to take a, quote, more lenient approach to fraud prevention leading up to the 2024 election. But instead of addressing that, Mr. morelli decides to talk about a chinese man gambling in a casino. Another fact actblue took action despite detecting at least 22 significant fraud campaigns on its platform in recent years. Instead of addressing that, Mr.
▶ 0:53:32Raskin wanted to talk about some texas buying texan buying pajamas. Another in the wake of the 2024 election, almost the entirety of actblue legal and compliance department with was either fired, resigned or left the company, alleging retaliation for highlighting vulnerabilities in unseriousness in addressing fraudulent donations.
▶ 0:53:59Instead of addressing that or clarifying that, Mr. garcia wanted to talk about the president's slush fund, even though which he left off is president obama had the same type of fund called the keepseagle fund. How did that help you in your position here? What that shows me is they're not willing to defend against these allegations, because likely they know that they're true. This is called deflection.
▶ 0:54:30This is politics at its ugliest and its dirtiest. So I do have a a series of questions for you. But I, I want to make sure I'm respectful. Is it miss jones or miss wallace jones. >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question. Pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> okay. Wow. Okay.
▶ 0:54:54Didn't expect um, expect that one, but I, I think I see where this is going. Um, but let me go ahead and ask questions. What role do you play in the process of actblue? Well, let me back up. I think I, I want to ask these first, miss wallace jones, has the fec ever completed an audit of actblue during the 2020 election cycle?
▶ 0:55:22>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> okay. Just want to bring up. Mr. chairman, that was a simple yes or no. There's no allegation in that. It was just whether an audit of actblue took place in the 2020 election cycle. Does actblue have an application programing interface with the fec database?
▶ 0:55:46>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> okay. This committee just passed bipartisan legislation that requires donors to include their cvv or c or cvc when donating to a political campaign online. The committee originally passed the same legislation last congress and pointed out that actblue did not require the cvv for online donations.
▶ 0:56:14Soon after that, actblue changed its policies to require the cvv. What was that? What was that decision connected to to what this committee was doing? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> all right.
▶ 0:56:35What role do you play in the process of actblue changing fraud prevention policies, such as requiring a cvv or increasing the thresholds for risk tolerance? >> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> Mr. chairman, it appears that since I can't even the.
▶ 0:57:03Her name is protected under the fifth amendment of the constitution, I don't. I don't think my time is is going to be more well spent, so I yield back. The gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman, representative sewell, is recognized for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions. >> Mr. chairman, I want to begin by unequivocally stating that guaranteeing the authenticity of campaign donations requires serious and honest engagement.
▶ 0:57:28I believe congress should be making deliberate efforts to prevent foreign donors from attempting to influence our democracy, and any investigation that would be serious use of our time and our resources here in this committee would include an investigation not just of actblue, but of when red as well. We're holding a hearing today, quote unquote, an investigation to prevent fraudulent donations.
▶ 0:57:57But it's nothing more than a hyper partizan witch hunt. This investigation is just one example. One more example of republicans and president trump using the power of his office to harass and intimidate anyone willing to challenge him. The trump department of justice has used its power to intimidate and victimize communities of color, especially black americans.
▶ 0:58:23Just look at their targeted harassment of the southern poverty law center, an organization that has worked tirelessly for decades to counter white supremacist organizations over and over again. Donald trump's department of justice has harassed black women with bogus lawsuits.
▶ 0:58:40We should not forget the harassment of the federal reserve board of directors, board of governors lisa cook, the harassment of the new york attorney general, tish james, and their harassment of our colleague, new jersey congresswoman lamonica mciver. So it is not surprising that this republican led committee is now attacking actblue and its ceo, miss wallace jones. Why?
▶ 0:59:07Because actblue is a platform that holds that helps empower voices of thousands of millions of american voters and supports the electoral efforts of a racially and ideologically diverse group of americans that are willing to stand up against the harmful actions of this president.
▶ 0:59:24This investigation is clearly just an extension of president trump's retribution tour, and I want to apologize to you, miss wallace jones, for having to be here and under these very hyper partizan, um, circumstances and not in any way, uh, looking into an investigation of fraudulent foreign donors that would include both republican and democratic organizations.
▶ 0:59:49This investigation is clearly an extension of president trump's retribution tour. In april of last year, the president issued an executive order targeting actblue and demanding a department of justice investigation into the platform.
▶ 1:00:05Less than two weeks after the executive order, a group of committee chairmen jointly sent a letter to attorney general bondi that detailed their committee's, quote, ongoing investigations into actblue, unquote, while pledging to, quote, work collaboratively with doj, end quote.
▶ 1:00:22Let me repeat that again, pledging to work collaboratively with doj, clearly committing to using legislative tools and information to advance the executive branch's law enforcement vendetta. This is clearly an attempt by those with power to go after those who don't have power.
▶ 1:00:49These are tactics of an authoritarian regime. This is clearly an attempt to use the powers of the federal government to go after donald trump's political opposition. Any meaningful investigation, Mr. chairman, would also include, when read. This committee should be conducting serious work. We would be better spent time, better spent trying to provide grant funding for election systems across this country.
▶ 1:01:17Or we could be considering approaches to improving the day to day operations of the house of representatives, which is a core jurisdictional function of this committee. Instead of spending this time using invaluable time and resources of this committee to go after a witch hunt, I'm embarrassed that we're using our committee time in such a way, and I want to again apologize to miss wallace jones for her having to be here and listen to this
▶ 1:01:50Craziness. With that, I yield back my time. >> the gentleman yields back. The gentleman from north carolina, doctor murphy, is recognized for five minutes. >> I'll defer my time. I'm not going to waste my time. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> the gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman from texas. Representative johnson, is recognized for five minutes. >> um, thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:02:15This has to be one of the most brazen political, desperate acts I've seen in congress. This hearing today. It is disappointing. It's disgusting. And it's offensive.
▶ 1:02:30We have seen this administration and republicans in congress systematically go on an attack to attack every aspect of elections in this country, because donald trump is terrified that he's going to lose the party's election control in 2026, terrified that democrats are going to take the gavels back in this building to hold his administration accountable for the horrific
▶ 1:03:01Damage they've done on the american people, to the economy, to our deficit, to everything that this government is supposed to be responsible. And instead, what they've done is attack what they've done at every level. So they've offered the safe act, right, to keep people from voting, to restrict access to the ballot box, to attack mail in voting, to attack people of color, to attack people from being able to legally cast their ballot. That wasn't good enough.
▶ 1:03:29So they've done this as partizan gerrymandering to redraw the lines, to make it so extreme for people to cast ballots for, because they're so terrified that they're going to lose elections. We have spent billions of dollars in this country responding to redrawing maps, because donald trump and republicans are afraid. And now what are we doing now? We're going to go after the money scheme, the money path.
▶ 1:03:56And if this was a legitimate exercise in politics, we would have winred and actblue here together. They both serve a purpose, which is to seek a vehicle for people to give small dollar contributions to the political candidates of their choice. But we're not here to have a legitimate, responsible dialog.
▶ 1:04:19We're here again because republicans are desperate and afraid, and they're coming to attack miss wallace jones, the head of actblue, out of a lack of seriousness, because winred is a corrupt organization.
▶ 1:04:38And I've seen firsthand what ken paxton, the texas attorney general, has done to abuse his authority and the overwhelming depth of corruption that that man has put on the state of texas. And through winred, we've seen examples highlighted by my colleagues on the only member of this committee that was in the state legislature that had the privilege to convict and impeach ken paxton when I was in the texas house.
▶ 1:05:08And I've seen up close and personal the depth of his corruption and what he did that through when red. So the fact that when red isn't here, the fact that republicans have no desire to police their own side of the street, their own house, just highlights again the political desperateness by which we are here.
▶ 1:05:29Because at the end of the day, now they're so scared, they've redrawn the maps, they've tried to restrict people's access to the polls. They're not investing in election integrity and election security to make sure that we have the appropriate number of machines, the appropriate number of offices. They're doing everything they can to keep our overseas people from being able to cast a ballot.
▶ 1:05:54Now they're trying to go after the money of democratic small donors, the little mom and pops, the little teachers who send their $25 a month in to elect the candidates of their choice because they're terrified that they're going to lose in november. So my comment to the american people is vote, contribute through actblue. Send money to your democratic candidates.
▶ 1:06:21Make sure that democrats win in november so we can stop this nonsense once and for all. And I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman from illinois, representative miller, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you.
▶ 1:06:35Chairman, I want to take a moment to highlight a section of an actblue employee training document, fraud prevention 101 for new associates in the workflow, your company's memo states, and I quote, if an otherwise legitimate donor uses a fake name, we would want to accept their donation, end quote. Can you confirm whether this is the advice that you give to your employees.
▶ 1:07:06>> on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution. >> chairman, I yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. This committee is engaged in legitimate inquiry of possible serious violations of federal election law.
▶ 1:07:26These are issues that are clearly within the jurisdiction of this committee, the committee on house administration, and the information we're seeking is important to assist us in our legislative and oversight responsibilities. You've invoked your fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination. That is your constitutional right. I'm disappointed to say that it's clear that you're not going to answer the committee's questions today. I can assure everyone, though, that the committee will continue to take every appropriate step to obtain the information that we are seeking.
▶ 1:07:55Without objection, the witness is excused.
▶ 1:08:45>> just to. >> are you ready to pass? Yes, ma'am. >> it is now, in order to consider the motion offered by Mr. morelli from new york. >> Mr. chairman, I have a motion. >> the gentleman is recognized. >> may I be heard on the. On the motion.
▶ 1:09:16>> the gentleman is recognized. >> I have a motion to table the motion to subpoena. >> the motion to table is not debatable. All those in favor of tabling signify by saying aye. All those opposed signify by saying no. No. The opinion of the chair. The ayes have it. The motion to table is agreed to. >> yeah. >> a recorded vote is requested. The clerk will please call the roll. >> chairman. >> still no. >> chair votes? No. Um. >> yes. >> Mr. loudermilk.
▶ 1:09:46>> yes. >> Mr. artemov. Yes. Mr. griffith. Yes. Mr. griffiths. Yes. Mr. doctor. Murphy. Yes. Mr. murphy votes yes. Mr. spice, Mr. kerry. Yes. Um, this is my spouse. Yes. Uh, miss Mrs. miller. >> yes. Okay. Mr. morelli. >> no. >> Mr. morelli votes no. Miss. Uh, Mrs. sewell, no. Mrs.
▶ 1:10:19Sewell votes no. Miss torres, miss johnson. >> no. >> johnson. >> miss clerk, I'd like to be recorded as. Yes. I. The clerk will report the tally. >> Mr. chairman, for this vote, there are five yeses and three nos. >> the motion carries.
▶ 1:10:45I'd like to thank our committee members, uh, for joining us today. Without objection, each member will have five legislative days to insert additional material into the record to revise and extend their remarks. There's no further business. I want to thank the members for their participation, and without objection, the committee stands adjourned.