▶ 0:13:00Subcommittee will come to order. Good morning and welcome to today's hearing. I want to thank our witness, Commissioner Frank Pisigniano, for appearing before us today to discuss the state of the Social Security Administration. Uh, I have to start off with criticism and a little bit of a complaint. Uh, your office was extremely late getting your testimony to us to review and prepare.
▶ 0:13:19I mean, we have a responsibility here in the subcommittee to provide oversight and direction for the Social Security Administration and uh, I I just expect better results in the future and I look forward to uh, to working with you to make sure that happens. U, now let's get to the hearing. Tens of millions of Americans rely on the Social Security Administration to deliver monthly retirement, survivor, and disability benefits, and millions more interact with the agency for critical life events.
▶ 0:13:45For far too long, the American people were forced to deal with an agency plagued by outdated systems and antiquated processes, resulting in unacceptable delays and a complete breakdown in basic customer service. Under the previous administration, our constituents faced a full-blown crisis delivery during deliveries uh of their services. Average telephone wait times reached an atrocious 42 minutes and backlog for initial disability claims ecliped one eclipsed 1 million for the first time in history.
▶ 0:14:15But today we're here to talk about a dramatic turnaround. Since Commissioner Bizaniano took the helm just over a year ago, Social Security Administration has made historic progress by shifting resources away from the bureaucracy at its headquarters back to direct frontline service delivery. The numbers speak for themselves. Wait times for the National 800 number have shrunk by roughly 89%, dropping from 42 minutes down to under 5 minutes. Average weight times at field offices nationwide has been slashed by 30%.
▶ 0:14:42The backlog of initial disability claims has been reduced by 32% from its peak of 1.27 million and the Social Security Fairness Act was implemented months ahead of schedule, providing rapid, muchneeded relief to millions of beneficiaries. We are seeing that by investing in modern technology and focusing on efficiency, the SSA can serve more Americans better with fewer employees. I'm particularly proud of how these efforts have translated to real re realworld results, particularly back in my home in Kansas.
▶ 0:15:12Since I took the gavl as chairman of the social security subcommittee, my team of I have worked handinhand with our local personnel and commissioner visano to address regional bottlenecks. I'm thrilled to report that because of this close coordination, weight times at our Witchita field office are down an incredible 60% compared to two years ago. That's what responsive government looks like when we prioritize the needs of our constituents over the conveniences of Washington. However, we celebrate these operational victories. We cannot lose sight of the financial headwinds facing the program.
▶ 0:15:42Yesterday, the 2026 annual trustees report was released. The findings on this report are a stark reminder of the urgency before us. The OASI trust fund is projected to reach insolveny in 2032. Protecting and strengthening Social Security requires absolute fiscal sanity and strict oversight. Every single dollar lost to administrative error, inefficiency, or improper payments is a dollar stolen from the benefits of hardworking Americans.
▶ 0:16:10In fiscal year 2024 alone, SSA improperly made billions in overpayments and underpayments. We must continue to deploy advanced automation tools and human common sense to prevent these errors from happening to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse and protect this vital lifeline for generations to come. Commissioner Vizigano, you have proven your strong leadership and private sector efficiency can break through some federal stagnation to dramatically improve customer service.
▶ 0:16:38We look forward to hearing how you intend to build on this momentum, root out improper spending, and work with our committee to strengthen Social Security. Thank you. And I I look forward to your testimony. I now yield to ranking member John Larson for an opening statement.
▶ 0:16:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and um welcome again, Commissioner, to the uh the committee. Um, I'm uh pleased that you're uh before us, but uh I don't think the urgency for the American people, as much as we might like to applaud efficiency wherever it can happen, is still the fact that there's 5 million fellow Americans that get below poverty level checks from Social that it's been over 55
▶ 0:17:23years since Social Security has been enhanced to help the people who deserve it most, especially in these economic times that were currently going through. I know it's become uh I I guess we should uh say that everything didn't happen because of Joe Biden.
▶ 0:17:44But um one thing that Joe Biden did do is say that we ought to lift the cap on people who pay nothing into Social Security as we struggle to see a committee. And most recently, the Social Security Administration released the 2026 trustees report that again shows solvency creeping up by a full year yet again.
▶ 0:18:12And yet nothing is being done except the fact that I think it's pretty obvious to a number of people including the attempt is being made by the current administration to privatize Social Security.
▶ 0:18:30And I think that any fair examination of what's going on in Social Security, including eliminating 7,000 employees, closing regional offices, etc., I'm great grateful for some of the uh telephone uh aspects of memory store, but to do so you're taking people away from existing jobs that uh should be providing greater customer service.
▶ 0:18:56We can argue back and forth about efficiency and effectiveness, but that doesn't take away from the family that's relying on social security. And for close to 50% of all Americans and the more than 70 million people that are currently receiving benefits, that means they're doing without. Here's the facts.
▶ 0:19:235 million Americans get below poverty level checks from the wealthiest nation in the world in the number one insurance program that the nations has, the most successful insurance program that the nation has. And yet because of lack of action by Congress, there has not been seen an improvement to these since 1971.
▶ 0:19:53Add to that the fact that people are still being taxed on their social security benefits in spite in spite of the claim of the other side that they've taken care of that. Yep. Maybe 6 million out of the 28 got some relief. But there that by my math means that 22 million Americans who shouldn't be taxed on their social security still get taxed on their social security.
▶ 0:20:17Also, as um we all know that while the repeal of weapon go was important and funding it is important as well. I'd like to submit for the record as well the report that was issued yesterday the and today the social security financial outlook due to Trump policies including both the big beautiful bills so to speak
▶ 0:20:48as well as the tariff issues and most recently as reported yet by another whistleblower what's happening in terms of trying to deport people who were paying into Social Security. Without objection, so
▶ 0:21:05All in all, uh Mr. Chairman, um my concern remains the same as it has for the last decade, and that's that we directly as a committee enhance the benefits of people of this country that they richly deserve for the nation's number one anti-poverty program.
▶ 0:21:28for the elderly, the number one anti-poverty program for children [snorts] and the number one program that more veterans rely on for disability than any other agency. I think everybody on this on this dis and in this committee understands the urgency.
▶ 0:21:48I will submit for the record later every single district and how it's reflected in the impact on the individuals that were sworn to serve. The hard truth is it's great that there might be some efficiencies, but that doesn't translate into people who are barely surviving get under poverty level checks. 40% subsist on just social security alone.
▶ 0:22:18And for more than half of Americans, this is the only thing they have. That's not progress. That's criminal. And Congress needs to act. We have a bill. We're prepared to do that. We're prepared to restore solveny and extend
▶ 0:22:42Thank you. Thank you, Ranking. Ranking member Larson. I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois's work and welfare subcommittee chairman, Darren Le Hood, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:22:55Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you.
▶ 0:23:06All right, let's try this one. [clears throat] Well, uh, thank you, Chairman Estus. um and happy to be part of this joint um subcommittee hearing today between work and welfare and the social security subcommittee and I want to thank you chairman Bizignoni uh for being here again today uh and your work as commissioner of the social security administration.
▶ 0:23:30We appreciate um you being back here with us and I want to thank you for your continued work leading the uh social security administration. As we know, SSA serves a huge number of Americans and the work your agency does touches seniors, individuals with disabilities, families, and workers across the country.
▶ 0:23:50Um, Commissioner, you joined us about one year ago after having been newly confirmed in your role, and I reviewed some of the data your team shared with us before this hearing about customer service at the agency. I was impressed at the progress you have been able to make in web phone and field office operations and to see that you you've made a priority of meeting Americans where they are and obviously your background and experience in the private sector has been immensely beneficial uh to that um endeavor that
▶ 0:24:20you've taken on and I appreciate your commitment to making the agency work better for the people who depend on it. SSA is one of the federal agencies that Americans interact with most directly. So when service is delayed, people feel it immediately. And I look forward to hearing more about the progress you've made and how Congress can be helpful in the future with your continued work.
▶ 0:24:42As chairman of the work and welfare subcommittee, I'm also interested in the administration of the Supplemental Security Income, also known as SSI program. For some recipients of SSI, their disability or age may mean they are unable to work. But for others, work may be possible with the right support, the right information, and a system that does not make the rules harder than they need to be.
▶ 0:25:08Last time you were here, we spoke about the importance of removing barriers for people who can work and want to work. SSA has has work supports and programs designed to facilitate the transition to work. For instance, like the ticket to work program, and I look forward to hearing how SSA is looking at that program in particular, and what progress has been made.
▶ 0:25:33The committee also has been focused on improving the foster care system with the leadership of First Lady Melania Trump. The House recently passed the Fostering the Future Act, a bipartisan piece of legislation to modernize the Schaffe foster care program and improve outcomes for foster When you were here last year, you spoke uh about the issue of children in foster care who receive Social Security survivor or SSI benefits and the importance of SSA
▶ 0:26:03working to increase the number of uh the number of states that have data exchanges in place to ensure children in foster care get the help they need. And I appreciate SSA's attention to this issue and look forward to hearing any updates on where things stand with that. Commissioner, again, thank you for your service. Thank you for being here today. We look forward to a fruitful uh conversation and dialogue on today's hearing and your willingness to be before the committee. We look forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:26:33Thank you, and I yield back.
▶ 0:26:35Thank you, Chairman Lehood. I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Work and Welfare Subcommittee, Ranking Member Davis, for his opening statement.
▶ 0:26:43Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over 75 million Americans depend on monthly Social Security Administration SSA's work is vital to all Americans.
▶ 0:26:57Those receiving benefits, those earning security for the future, and those whose loved ones live with dignity because of social security or supplemental security Those benefits are even more critical and more crucial now with inflation at its highest level since we recovered from the pandemic. So, I appreciate the commissioner joining us today.
▶ 0:27:27Commissioner, I hope today can be the start of telling Congress and the public the whole truth. Starting with being fully transparent about the challenges SSA faced in the wake of massive staff cuts, an exodus of experienced staff, and repeated credible reports that the Trump administration misused the public trust.
▶ 0:27:55Most recently, a whistleblower revealed an SSA plan to declare US citizens, and I quote, dead," unquote, for political gain. SSA statements about customer service do not always appear to reflect the reality Americans experience.
▶ 0:28:18Press releases claiming dramatic improvements in SSA customer service, particularly on the 800 number conflict with reports from AARP and our constituents.
▶ 0:28:34People across the country report waiting in long lines at social security offices or being turned away and told to make only to discover no appointments are Similarly, it seems misleading to claim a zero call wait time for seniors that waited hours or days for a call back or to praise
▶ 0:29:04short call wait times for people whose problems are not resolved. I hear repeatedly that people must call back over and over to finally speak to someone who can answer their questions because the 800 number forward them to staff outside of their understaffed local offices. Staff who cannot answer individual case questions. So I ask you, Mr.
▶ 0:29:33commissioner to provide accurate and clear information so we can work together to make sure that you have qualified staff you need to deliver benefits.
▶ 0:29:47As ranking member on the subcommittee on work and family support, I have a special responsibility to speak up for SSI recipients, many of whom live with severe mental and physical beneficiaries are justifiably frightened that the administration's to cut benefits for over 400,000 of the poorest recipients.
▶ 0:30:18That proposal should be formally rescended, not left lingering to frighten vulnerable people. I also hope you will provide clear timelines for revising the adult and child medical listing of impairments for sickle cell disease based on the National Academy of Sciences final report. When we talked last year, you said you were waiting for the report.
▶ 0:30:45It was published months ago and it confirms that the current SSA process is excluding some families from the help they need. For example, SSA data [clears throat] indicate that 3/4 of all children with severe cickle cell disease get initially denied SSI disability upon application under these criteria.
▶ 0:31:15These families need help now. So, Commissioner, I thank you for joining us today. You have a lot of important work to do and we want to help you get it right. Mr.
▶ 0:31:29Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit to the record a letter from several cle cell and disability advocates to meet with the commissioner to discuss revising the disability decisions for those suffering from sickle cell anemia. I thank you Mr. Chairman. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:31:52Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 0:31:54Thank you, Mr. Davis. U [clears throat] excuse me. Today's sole witness is Commissioner of Social Security, Commissioner Frank Visinano. Thank you for joining us today. Your written statement will be made part of the hearing record and you have five minutes to deliver your oral remarks. Commissioner Vishino, you may begin whenever you're ready.
▶ 0:32:14Thank you. Members of the subcommittees, under President Trump, the Social Security Administration is delivering faster service, better customer experiences, and higher quality outcomes for the American people. Every customerf facing service channel, field office, phones, and web has improved by double digits. This is the best all-around performance ever.
▶ 0:32:38At the Social Security we have pledged and are protecting and preserving Social Security. SSA serves over 300 million people. And this year, we will have over 800 million interactions. As a result of our record-breaking performance, we're saving the American people over 40 million hours. The American people are winning.
▶ 0:33:04Before I arrived in May 2025, SSA had four different leaders in five months and was an agency in turmoil. The American people endured a failed service model. The Biden administration's so-called appointment focused service turned people away who travel to our field offices. On the national 800 number, only half of our customers got their calls answered.
▶ 0:33:29On the web, self-service features were down 29 hours a week. Turning people away who travel to field offices, only answering half the calls and having office hours on the web is not meeting our customers where they want to be met. The Trump administration is transforming SSA into a model of excellence, a digital first agency that meets and exceeds customer expectations for timely, accurate service in the channel of their choice.
▶ 0:34:00More than 99% of outfield offices are open and serving the public with average wait times reduced to 20 minutes, a 30% improvement. No field office is closed due to staffing. We now answer 90% of calls to our 800 number and have reduced average wait time to 5 minutes. A 75% improvement.
▶ 0:34:26Simultaneously, physical year-to date, we are serving 56% more people, which represents 13 million additional customers served. Online services are now available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, enabling c customers to complete transactions We are up 37% on our web transactions and up 21% on account creations.
▶ 0:34:55We are the largest digital financial services platform with over 103 million my social security accounts. In serving our most vulnerable, we have reduced wait times for initial disability claims decisions by 34 days, reduced hearing wait times by 91 days, reaching historic lows, and are quickly delivering disability benefits to those who qualify.
▶ 0:35:24Technology, process engineering, and disciplined execution have driven this transformation. Some of our recent improvements include online claims, straight through processing, and advanced technology. These improvements have generated the equivalent of 2500 work years in productivity savings across the agency.
▶ 0:35:48With better process engineering and management, we have reduced workload in field offices by the equivalent of 600 work years, allowing staff to spend more time serving customers directly. We have also prioritized workforce engagement. For the first time in agency history, I have established advisory councils that report directly to me. These efforts are producing results.
▶ 0:36:15Annualized fiscal year 2026 attrition will be 30% lower than fiscal year 2024, providing consistency for both staff and the public we serve. Finally, we have made risk management a core operating principle at SSA.
▶ 0:36:36We have closed IG audit recommendations at a record pace, helping protect 16 billion in taxpayer funds. We are meeting congressional program integrity requirements, strengthening controls, and relentlessly pursuing the elimination of fraud, waste, and abuse. We have also restored stability.
▶ 0:37:00During the past year, there has been no turnover around among my direct reports, whether career or political. That leadership continuity combined with the dedication of SSA's workforce enabled the agency to serve the American people through the 43-day government shutdown during the peak of retirement season. I am honored to lead this agency and serve the American people.
▶ 0:37:29We are building a modern, sustainable, and durable organization. The president's fiscal year 2027 budget request supports this transformation. Mr. Chairman, over the past year, we have improved service, strengthened controls, deployed technology, and delivered measurable results at historic scale.
▶ 0:37:52I look forward to discussing these accomplishments and answering your Thank you for your testimony. We'll now proceed to the question and answer session. Uh, Commissioner Biziano, the operational turnaround we have witnessed over the past year is a testament to what happens when private sector efficiency is brought into a federal bureaucracy.
▶ 0:38:12By focusing on core data and cutting through administrative red tape, the SSA is finally starting to deliver the level of service that canons and all Americans expect and and deserve. To better understand how you achieve these milestones and how we can assure these gains are sustained securely. I have uh a few specific questions regarding uh some of your strategy uh staffing program integrity and some recent data reports.
▶ 0:38:37Uh, Commissioner, you you've managed to achieve significant improvements to customer service in the first year, including an 84% reduction in the national 800 number uh average weight times and a 33% drop in the initial disability backlog while all uh while operating with fewer total employees. Can you describe how ideas like shifting personnel out of the the bureaucratic headquarter positions and onto the front lines made this possible and what further structural changes are planned?
▶ 0:39:09Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh I think first of all uh I'm honored to be here. I uh when we look at what we inherited uh we inherited something that existed for a long time. You know, one of the first observations I had is way too many ma layers of management. We didn't shut down anything actually that was facing clients, right?
▶ 0:39:38Regional offices was another level of bureaucracy. We didn't close down a field office. We actually reallocated our staff to where the work was. And I think that's a basic tactic. Uh, I think also we looked at what we needed when we need it. First day I looked at the numbers on the 800 number at 8 a.m. with 4,000 people on our staff, we had 400 and the phone was ringing.
▶ 0:40:06Obviously, people wanted to call us in the morning and we weren't there. So, um, I like to make this more complicated, but it's not. It's putting people where the work is. It's building technology in a modernday fashion. It's understanding what best-in-class performance looks like and motivating a workforce who's fully motivated to be here. We have great people in SSA who love to serve the American public.
▶ 0:40:33Well, thank you. Is has that reallocation of personnel affected service elsewhere in the agency. Uh I think when we look at the numbers um first of all uh you know as you know uh you said it before you know you have fundamentally threequarters of a million uh social security numbers in your in your jurisdiction and we pay out you know more than 300 million a month.
▶ 0:40:59So there's a very important engine to every one of uh the district and we're very very proud of the full balance scorecard. Uh visitors are down in field offices and up everywhere else although that's fundamentally half our staffing and we committed to never close a field office and always be there.
▶ 0:41:21Um I think you know every number in the place is double digit improvement and that says uh the head of disability we never actually had a head of disability before uh and it's a career person who was a judge runs disability and says it's breadandbut management to him what they're learning and they're growing. So uh we we we we look at a balanced scorecard.
▶ 0:41:44We have a governance structure that looks at the numbers every week as a management team and we're committed to get having a better year in front of us than a year behind
▶ 0:41:53Great. Can we talk a little bit more about disability? Appreciate what you just said, but uh you know, as the pending disability claims and and the the initial claims and and reconsiderations continue to shrink, how are you ensuring that the bottlenecks do not materialize at other parts in the in the adjudication process?
▶ 0:42:11Well, that's why we I mean when when we look at every week for an hour and a half as a management team uh and that would be you know my direct reports and their direct reports 200 indicators and go through them. You know we want to make sure we're making hearings more efficient. We're making uh by the way efficient equals quality too. Better output less errors quicker responses to clients. And so I think the only way to do it is look at a balanced scorecard.
▶ 0:42:40make sure we have the right resource allocation and a technology roadmap to change it. We're not modernizing, we're transforming. Well, while the uh operational turnarounds are incredible, our constituents are still occasionally surprised by overpayment notices, often due to no fault of their own.
▶ 0:42:59After 10 years of intense oversight by the committee, the SSA's finally began using the authority to implement a payroll information exchange designed to improve payment accuracy and relieve the burdens and reliance on self-reported wage information, a leading cause of the improper payments. Can you provide us with an update on the status of the information exchange?
▶ 0:43:19Yeah, I mean, uh, it's called PI, payment information exchange, and, uh, the first days here, I didn't know what they meant by PI, but we learned it real quick. we've expanded it. Uh we've uh have more information coming into it and we uh changed the interval that in fact the information comes. So it's a daily exchange. It's a way that we get information from outside bureaus and can compare so we we reduce our improper
▶ 0:43:51Thank you. Um, you know, data integrity and security are are sometimes uh part of the most critical uh role of the SSA uh which maintains some of the most personal information of nearly every American. Recent media reports have alleged plans to add millions of living individuals to the death master file, which is an important database. I say it's the uh it's one of the main national database, if not the only national database uh that that provides that information.
▶ 0:44:20But the deathm files managed by SSA and utilized by other federal agencies to ensure taxpayer dollars are not going to otherwise deceased and ill ineligible individuals. Mr. Commissioner, what's uh what's your response to these reports from the media about adding the living individuals? And is the SSA knowingly adding living individuals to the death master file?
▶ 0:44:40Uh we are not. Uh and from the day I've been here, we haven't added people to death master file who are living. I will tell you um I approached this is a first time ever approach uh there was something called the numminant file maybe all heard of numminant uh it's not a common word in anyone's neighborhood probably no one walks into a social security office and says am I on the numminant file uh I like to call it the social security number database and that social security number
▶ 0:45:10database had never been reconciled now recognize we created two new positions ahead of risk management to report to me, which was well subordinated in the organization and a head of cyber and resiliency, both two great career executives in the federal government. And in the creation of those roles, they absorbed all different types of way to do the business and the work. We reconcile today the social security number database.
▶ 0:45:40We use lots of data exchanges. we are the number one identifier for Americans of who they are. So having that as pristine as possible and that if it was never reconciled before it's really uh been a heroic effort by the team which I think ensures our data integrity and our data accuracy and then building a cyber function of world class where we actually uh have have outsiders and
▶ 0:46:10ourselves continually pounding at right is about the riskmanagement function of social security which did not exist before.
▶ 0:46:18Well, thank thank you for that update on how the process works. Um, and you you said you haven't added any living individuals. Are there any plans to do that in the future?
▶ 0:46:27No, no, sorry.
▶ 0:46:28Great. Well, thank you. Um, I now recognize Mr. Larson for questions.
▶ 0:46:34Well, thank you again, Mr. Chairman. Let me uh start by uh saying u do you believe the billionaires should pay the their fair share of uh social security?
▶ 0:46:51I believe whatever the law is should be
▶ 0:46:55The pardon the what?
▶ 0:46:56Whatever the law is should be upheld.
▶ 0:46:59So if you're Elon Musk and don't pay anything into social security that's okay with you. I'm I'm I'm not the dictator
▶ 0:47:11So, here we are before the committee and uh you're telling us how more efficient you are. So, you're more efficient. How are the five million Americans, fellow Americans, most of them women, who are getting below poverty level checks from Social Security, are they able to starve more efficiently? Is that the goal here?
▶ 0:47:37That they're able to uh that we're able to send them their below poverty level check more efficiently, I guess. So, so that's a great thing. We should all be doing cartwheels and celebrating. How about the 40% of the people who this is the only benefit that they have.
▶ 0:48:00So the only benefit that they in retirement, you're saying to them, "Look what we've done for you. We're getting you that check more efficiently." Isn't that Sounds to me more like when you look at everything that's being done and nothing that's being done on behalf of the people that Social Security was meant to serve and props up our whole
▶ 0:48:30system of free enterprise and capitalism. We're saying don't worry, we're getting it to you more efficiently. How about we get them something they can live on and sustain themselves on? This is what this committee is should be doing.
▶ 0:48:51And I would expect from our agencies, and I know everything's Joe Biden's fault, etc., But I have to say Was Joe Biden wrong to say that we should lift the cap on people making over 400,000? Was that wrong, Mr. Mr. Secretary?
▶ 0:49:14Is that a question?
▶ 0:49:16Yes, it is a question. Um I would say that the fact of the matter is uh Congress and that would be laid by yourself as a ranking member here has a responsibility to decide what they want to work on. The commissioner's job
▶ 0:49:35that's not what the question was. The question was
▶ 0:49:38I'm answering a reality.
▶ 0:49:39You're answering the way you want to answer it. I asked the question, do you think they we should lift the cap on making people making over 400,000? Raise your hand in the audience if you're making over 400,000. Raise your hand on the DAS if you're making over 400,000. And yet nobody here in this room is making over 400,000. And yet people are.
▶ 0:50:03And yet that Joe Biden, boy, that guy, he what an awful thing to say that those people, as difficult as this may be, that they're going to have to pay what all of you pay for social security. Wow, what an incredible burden he's [snorts] just placed on people.
▶ 0:50:22that Joe Biden, you know, that guy who wanted to see people pay their fair share into the most significant insurance program the nation has ever had, so people can live out their lives in dignity instead of living in poverty more efficiently.
▶ 0:50:46This hearing should be about focusing on what we need to do for the American people. Everyone on this dis knows that it's been over 55 years since we've enhanced social security across the board. And who's going to benefit from that? Where do the people in your district spend the money they receive from social security? on average over $280 million in every congressional district.
▶ 0:51:16And oh, wouldn't it be something if that were increased? That would actually allow not only them to live in dignity, but how about helping out every single local business in all of your districts who that money will go directly back to by way of purchasing groceries, pharmaceuticals, paying their rent, their mortgage, putting gas in their car.
▶ 0:51:43And instead we're sitting watching and everybody on this dis knows and I'll keep on saying it. This is about the privatization of social security. It's not about helping these people out.
▶ 0:51:58Thank you ranking member for your uh your uh your comments and questions. I now recognize work and welfare subcommittee chairman Lehood for for
▶ 0:52:07Thank you chairman Estus. Um, Commissioner, I mentioned in my uh o opening comments that obviously this is a joint hearing and I wanted to focus my questions on the work we do on the work and welfare subcommittee and specifically the ticket to work program.
▶ 0:52:24Um and um you you mentioned in your testimony that the administration of the SSI program uh is extremely complex to administer and um now that you have designated an SSI official dedicated to improving technology and processes, what specifically um is is that going to mean for the Ticket to Work program, particularly since we know many recipients aren't aren't aware of
▶ 0:52:54the program and there are many questions about its effectiveness.
▶ 0:52:58Yeah, I thought I thought uh when we looked at SSI in general and we looked at uh this vulnerable population, what we recognized very quickly was there was no accountability within the agency for delivering against it. Yes, everybody worked on it.
▶ 0:53:16So as I had said we are dedicated executive in charge uh and he's been on a multi-prong effort one as you said on SSI and obviously uh you know the the payroll exchange we talk about it's mission critical to SSI to ensure that we're not making payments and then coming back to people on ticket to work as we think about uh our beneficiaries and We don't want
▶ 0:53:47them burdened by reporting issues and we're committed to them. In fact, uh people with disabilities promoting that they have dignity to come back to work. Uh we're promoting incentives and automated self-reporting through the systems we have. Uh we're encouraging employment networks to educate and we're fully engaged in that.
▶ 0:54:11uh and I think we have really the first large-scale evaluation program in over a decade to gather all uh and come back on what's not effective still more uh ticket to work is a very strong program to help people to work SSI deals with our most vulnerable and we need to have people understand that uh if they if they decide to go to
▶ 0:54:41ticket to work that uh if they have some hardship will still be there for them. And I think that's the most important element that we have to work on. Uh Congressman,
▶ 0:54:51well, Commissioner, we I appreciate uh those reforms and changes that if you you've made appropriately and continue to implement, obviously those are important to making this program successful. The Ticket to Work, as you know, we have roughly 7 million unfilled jobs in the country.
▶ 0:55:09Um last year in our um working families tax cut bill, we we worked on transitioning people off of government funding uh into working um and the best social sa the best social safety network is a job and and so we believe the ticket to work program with your reforms uh and making it more efficient, more effective, more accountable can help transition people into jobs. So we look forward to working with you on that.
▶ 0:55:37Um customer service um you mentioned also uh that matters for work and if a beneficiary is trying to report wages or resolve an overpayment issue, delays can create real uncertainty. Chairman Estus and I uh held a joint social security and work and welfare subcommittee hearing last September. The hearing was focused on removing barriers to work. Our witnesses testified that overp payments are one of the biggest deterrents to their efforts to transition back to the workforce.
▶ 0:56:06um what is SSA doing to reduce overp payments to SSI and um DI um beneficiaries who are working or attempting to return to work. Yeah, I think we've done u multiple things or I know we've done multiple things obviously pi being the largest the payroll exchange seeing information understanding it uh the second is in fact cutting payment cycles down so in fact we have the most current information the payment cycles
▶ 0:56:37were multiple days and you know on any day something can change relative to it so getting those down to a couple days as opposed to multiple has made more and we're continue this will be a neverending pursuit to be honest with you of continuing to refine the process and improve the processes.
▶ 0:56:56Thank you for that. Um in 2024 my colleagues and I on this committee sent a bipartisan letter to the GAO, Government Accounting Office, requesting a study examining state participation in the monthly data exchanges. This is important because the data exchanges add transparency and accountability for state child welfare agencies who are acting as representative payes on behalf of children in the foster care uh system receiving SSI or SSA benefits.
▶ 0:57:24The GAO is expected to release this its study this year and will have several recommendations for the Social Security Administration. And Commissioner, I just want to alert you to that. Um, can you commit to working with the committee to implement the recommendations that are going to be made by the GAO or recommending legislative changes so we can make progress on this?
▶ 0:57:45Thank you, Commissioner. I yield back.
▶ 0:57:47Thank you. I now recognize work and welfare ranking member Davis for
▶ 0:57:52Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Commissioner, for your answers. My constituents and national organizations representing seniors still tell me that when they call SSA, they usually get an offer to have someone call them back, not a live person, addressing their question or When callers choose a call back, could you tell
▶ 0:58:22me the average amount of time it takes for them to hear back from SSA? Can you name a single metric that SSA that captures or tells whether a receive the right outcome? Not the fastest, not the faster, not the cheaper, but one that is correct and complete.
▶ 0:58:52And will you commit to these data, this information so that the public know what to expect?
▶ 0:59:02Uh I say first of all um we do post call surveys both on callbacks and first time. call back is a uh an industry uh norm. It's not uh our spec specific item. We measure it the same way every industry does. We can say that we outperform more than 50% of the commercial entities and that we have uh performance at the high end in the federal government.
▶ 0:59:31Having said that, we do post call surveys on everything and we have about an 89% satisfaction rate. Uh I think if you think about um you know your your uh your jurisdiction, we have three quarters of a million social security number holders in your uh jurisdiction, sir.
▶ 0:59:56And we're paying out more than 181 million a month to those uh
▶ 1:00:03Will you will you publish this so that they will know exactly what to expect or tell them?
▶ 1:00:14Tell me what you mean by that.
▶ 1:00:16Well, you tell them so that they they they know what they can expect to how long it's going to take. So when they call up, we give them an option. The option is uh you have an Xminute wait time, an 8 minute wait time, a 10 minute wait time, and then we say that and if they if you would like a call back, we will call you within that time period.
▶ 1:00:42So we tell every caller what to expect relative to their call backs.
▶ 1:00:48All right, then let me go to this in a 2015 change in SA policy resulted in sharply increased denials of SS benefits to children with cickle cell Many parents of these children must reduce their work hours to help them get the comprehensive care they need. And of course, they've got severe pain.
▶ 1:01:18These parents depend on SSI to help pay the bill. In 2025, the Nationalmies of Science that uh the criteria should be changed so that these individuals got the help. Could you tell us what what what you've done since then to change that policy?
▶ 1:01:43Well, we've uh we've actually spent time and gone through the elements that need to be changed. We have we have recommendations and to change them and I'm happy to come see you and go through it with you.
▶ 1:01:59They've also indicated that they're having difficulty sitting down. Would you commit to meeting with the cle cell advocates to dig into this and happy to do it and happy to do it with you and your staff together.
▶ 1:02:17And also before we end, I'm kind of surprised that I've waited more than three months for substantive answer to questions that I've asked relative to delayed tax refunds. Could you commit to getting us that information as quickly as maybe a week or two.
▶ 1:02:46Happy to. It's not a It's not an IRS meeting, but I'm happy to, sir.
▶ 1:02:51Thank you very much. And uh I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Well, thank you. I now recognize Chairman Smith for
▶ 1:03:00Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Um Commissioner, thank you and welcome back to the the Ways and Means Committee. I know you have multiple hats um in serving the American people and we say thank you. Um appreciate the work that you're doing um in social security administration. Um you could be doing a lot of things and you've chosen to serve the people who are relying on social security and and the people of this country. So um just want to say thank you.
▶ 1:03:29You don't hear that a lot especially when you come before Congress. They like to criticize you and tell you how X Y and Z is not perfect and why you haven't fixed whatever. Um, but as I was sitting here listening to some of that commissioner, [snorts] I'm I've been here 12 years on this 12 years.
▶ 1:03:55But that's a very short time compared to a lot of people that have been here 30 and 40 years. And the last time Social Security was changed with benefits was But boy, we hear a lot of people up here talk about changing those benefits. But you're right, it's done by the legislative body, not by you.
▶ 1:04:18And so Congress needs to get their act together to address social security and the insolveny that's coming instead of poking blame at other people whenever it is our duty and our responsibility. And so um there's only been a couple changes to social security in the last 40 years. One of them was under my chairmanship with WEB go just in 2025. But we've seen nothing in years past.
▶ 1:04:49And so I hope, Commissioner, our colleagues will come together, both Republican and Democrat, to do it for those people who rely on Social Security. My mother, do it for people like my mother, that that's all she has. That is all she lives on. And that's difficult for her to do. But there's a lot of people like that. And that's why we have to come together. I have a few questions, Commissioner.
▶ 1:05:18As someone who represents a number of rural communities and many families that that rely on Social Security in order to retire with dignity and security. I appreciate how important it is that people maintain reliable access to social security services, whether it is in contact with your agency by way of phone, online, or in person at your field offices.
▶ 1:05:47Um, Commissioner, for folks unable to travel to field offices, how has the SSA expanded services and improved delivery through the other service channels since you last testified on this matter before the committee? And and how have wait times and and access improved under President Trump compared to the prior
▶ 1:06:14Thank you, sir. Um, I think first of all, uh, we've always believed we should meet clients where they want to be met. If they want to come to a field office, uh, we're there to serve them. If, um, they want to call us on the phone. If they don't want to wait on the phone for the wait time, they can take a call back.
▶ 1:06:40And then uh you know as more and more people transact with us more and more want to do it on the web. If you look at what's happened uh I'd say the first thing that I'd say is you know we had a system that said appointment needed when you came to a field office. Appointment needed. We sent people home. We sent them home. Right.
▶ 1:07:09those signs no longer exist. Uh and that was not only did we send those people home, we sent the employees home. So that was very convenient for everybody, but somebody who wanted service. Uh and then we had a web down 29 hours a week.
▶ 1:07:28Uh by changing all that, what's actually happened is field office visits are down uh because people can access on us on the phone. Like we said, fiscal year to date, we've answered and served 13 million more Americans. We've saved Americans 40 million hours of wait time. Uh, and our web traffic is up um 37%.
▶ 1:07:59And we'll do 800 million uh Uh 3% of them happen in field offices physically, but we have 23,000 people there and we're going to serve the American public wherever they want to be
▶ 1:08:15Thank you, Commissioner, for for doing that. Um, this committee has been been working to improve access to gainful employment opportunities for Americans receiving disability benefits from the Social Security Administration.
▶ 1:08:29We recently advanced legislation sponsored by Congressman Austin Scott, a a strong advocate for disabled veterans, authorizing your agency to once again test potential policy changes that might improve access and remove barriers to work for Social Security disability insurance beneficiaries.
▶ 1:08:52At a hearing last fall, we heard from such beneficiary who who told us that if he hadn't had someone help him with the complex disability rules, he would have quote graduated to the couch. Sadly, his experience is the exception to the rule.
▶ 1:09:12Less than 1% of beneficiaries leave the program for work despite 60% of beneficiaries indicating they would like to work. While legislative efforts are underway, what is the agency doing today to improve access or remove barriers to employment opportunities for Americans living with disabilities that receive SSA funded benefits?
▶ 1:09:43Yeah. Um I think the number one thing is uh our own advocacy with uh employment networks because we have a deep belief that we can be advocates in a larger standpoint to have them understand uh these are fabulous fabulous Americans who are capable uh obviously continuing the journey to uh work on things like ticket to work also which uh isn't
▶ 1:10:13on the initial disability, but after and I think it needs to be a concerted effort uh locally and nationally and I look forward to working with everybody here on on making progress on this. This is this is uh real good work and the work that has to do as a person in the private sector who believed uh in in veteran employment and created the 100,000 jobs mission and that meant for disabled vets too.
▶ 1:10:41I understand how this can be done and we're going to get it
▶ 1:10:45You know, Social Security is not immune to the disease of fraud that that seems to have infected so many parts of government. As with other instances of the abuse and misuse of federal funds, fraud within Social Security robs not just taxpayers of hard-earned dollars, but beneficiaries of well-earned benefits.
▶ 1:11:10This committee advanced legislation through the House with unanimous support that would make it easier for victims of identity theft, including parents of children whose social security numbers have been compromised to coordinate with the agency to resolve the matter.
▶ 1:11:29While that legislation sits over in the Senate like so many other good pieces of legislation, what is the agency doing to combat fraud within the program and to better service beneficiaries needing your assistance when they are victims of identity theft?
▶ 1:11:48Well, we uh we are in the process right now of having dedicated resource just for a person for identity theft. I think that was job one. Uh I think above that job is a conversation I had earlier which is um a full reconciliation of what is really the social security number database. Uh because many times that fraud doesn't happen within social security.
▶ 1:12:16It happens in the other areas of government and elsewhere where that number [snorts] gets used. So the ability for us to stay vigilant on the reconciliation, the ability for us to supply dedicated resource so people have a dedicated person to deal with and then continue continue data cleansing.
▶ 1:12:38Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Chairman Estus and Chairman Lehood for holding this hearing.
▶ 1:12:43Thank you, Chairman Smith. Um I now recognize Miss Moore from Wisconsin for five minutes for questions. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome back, uh, Mr. Commissioner. Last time you were here, you were the CEO of the IRS, but uh, welcome back again.
▶ 1:13:03Um, you have, uh, waxed on about the, what do we call it, the speed of answer um, calls that people make and you say that calls are like 10 minutes. Is that correct? Something like that. Uh what was the word you used?
▶ 1:13:21Speed of answer metric.
▶ 1:13:22I I did I didn't hear what you were
▶ 1:13:24Okay. Well, I'll share that with you because uh the um the uh American Federation of Government Employees Council 220 uh I have a statement for the record where they call where they say the speed of answer metric was 10 minutes. the Washington in March 19th of 2026, the inspector general put out a report that said the actual wait time was more of what our constituents are telling us that it is.
▶ 1:13:52It's 46 minutes to two hours, but um the the IG's report was scrubbed by somebody and they substituted a speed of answer metric which was 10 minutes. And so, Mr. Chairman, without objection, I'm going to u for the record a statement from the American Federation of Government Employees um uh about this hearing and about the wait times.
▶ 1:14:18Without objection,
▶ 1:14:19thank you so much. Um Mr. Commissioner, uh, you have said, you know, our experience, and I have a case worker in my district, as do all of my colleagues, that says that, uh, that, uh, that there have been so many reassignments of like employees that had very specific skill sets that were all removed and and and put on these this 800 number.
▶ 1:14:45So that when people do call the 800 number um the the questions that they you know depends on who answers the 800 call those person don't have the answers the skill set to help them. Uh and so they don't get the proper answers that they get.
▶ 1:15:03Um uh uh in in in in addition to that um that comports very much so with what my staff has shared with me that um uh that I guess in the in the that we have a 90year low in the numbers of employees that the Social Security Administration has employed at a time when people like me, the baby boomers that um is Mr. Mr.
▶ 1:15:33Larson points out all the time that 10,000 of us are turning 65 every single day and it seems sort of Um, is the 800 number and the shuffling of staff is that is that supposed to realize some efficiencies that we haven't seen?
▶ 1:15:55First of all, um I think a good way to think about this whole situation is we used to have 400 people on the phone at 8:00 a.m. in the morning. And that was not a sufficient number. That was predating me. That would go back to the era that you well remember where we told people appointments are needed. This was a sign from 24. They've been ripped down. Right?
▶ 1:16:22What we've seen is people sent home to do work from home in field offices. Well, that's inappropriate.
▶ 1:16:31Okay. So, so what I'm saying is these I
▶ 1:16:35Go ahead.
▶ 1:16:36I'm just want to know why
▶ 1:16:38people are waiting on the phone for 46 minutes and then when they finally do get somebody, somebody can't answer their questions because they're not calling the correct benefit officer. Um uh and do you think the 800 number thing is supposed to be the magic bullet in place of having enough employees?
▶ 1:17:04What I think in fact is we have the right amount of staff in the right
▶ 1:17:09Okay, that's okay. Well, we I don't agree with you on that, so no point in burning up my time.
▶ 1:17:14You want know how to manage 50,000 people anyway?
▶ 1:17:18Okay. Um, I I can't resist asking you.
▶ 1:17:22Say she doesn't know how to manage.
▶ 1:17:25Yeah. Was I talking to you?
▶ 1:17:27Yeah, it is my time and he can ask a
▶ 1:17:30Fine. What question you want to ask during her time?
▶ 1:17:32Did you just say that she doesn't know how to manage
▶ 1:17:3550,000 people? So, I don't know.
▶ 1:17:38Do you know her capabilities of
▶ 1:17:41Yeah, I do. She would understand us if
▶ 1:17:45Okay. Thank you. I can't resist um asking you as a CEO of the IRS about the $1.8 billion representization fund and in addition no audits. Well, how can I get in on that deal where the IRS won't audit me? Is this something available to
▶ 1:18:08I think uh this is the letter for this meeting. It's an SSA meeting. I just want to get in on that.
▶ 1:18:16Treasury secretary commented on this in the Ways and Means Committee.
▶ 1:18:21Well, you haven't answered. The gentle lady's time has expired. Um, I just uh want to remind uh everybody that we're focusing on social security in this this uh this hearing to be able to talk about I know the commissioner does a lot of work. We want to make sure that we get uh social security information covered.
▶ 1:18:37at uh uh pursuant to committee practice, we'll now proceed two to one question. And now I'll I'll uh recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Kerry, for five minutes for questioning.
▶ 1:18:47I want to thank the chairman uh for for having this hearing today. Uh Mr. Biziano, Commissioner, I want to thank you uh for taking the time to be here today. First, I'd really like to talk about and I know that you and I have had the opportunity to discuss some of the sex uh the successes that you've had during your time in this position.
▶ 1:19:12Chiefly among them is something that this committee had the first hearing on uh in Louisiana uh which was the implementation of the Social Security Fairness Act. And I know you and I have briefly discussed that. I'd like to commend you for getting these payments delivered. And I think this is something that's pretty telling.
▶ 1:19:32You were able to deliver these payments to these hardworking men and women, uh, teachers, police officers five months ahead of schedule. This was quite an achievement really. The Social Security Fairness Act, many of my colleagues uh on both sides, was a bipartisan piece of legislation that many people elected to this office um took 20 years to get enacted.
▶ 1:20:02So, in November of 23, as I mentioned before, I chaired the first ever hearing on the bill in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Then the bill was passed a year later, signed into law under President Biden, but it was the current Trump administration that implemented this. And I just want to make sure I'm correct. It was the Trump administration that implemented the Social Security Fairness Act. Am I correct?
▶ 1:20:30You're correct.
▶ 1:20:32Yes. And I want to thank you for clarifying that so that everybody understands the role that you played um in getting these benefits into the hands of the retired public servants that so desperately needed them.
▶ 1:20:48The work was not just identifying and providing these numbers are stag more than $17 and retroactive benefits to $3.1 million of hardworking Americans. It was also adjusting the monthly benefits for all those people um over the next uh for the future years.
▶ 1:21:14So, Commissioner, can you explain for all of us how your agency was able to execute this monumental undertaking so efficiently and so successfully?
▶ 1:21:26Well, uh first of all, thank you for the question. Um, and as I sit here, uh, I recognize that, uh, that in your, uh, district that was $14 million, uh, that went to more than 2100, um, recipients.
▶ 1:21:46And in fact, if you think about it, uh, within your district, we're we're paying benefits of more than 400 million um, a month. So a powerful powerful and your support is tremendous. Um I think when we came when I came in in May uh and checked on the status of it they said it would be done by uh
▶ 1:22:10and um I asked the barriers and fundamentally the barriers were uh people to the work. But what became very clear to me was through a few meetings that we could technically solve the problem. And much of the gains we've made in the agency has been through technology, not through uh any other means. You know, you can't just throw people at problems in this day and age. You got to use technology.
▶ 1:22:41Uh so the CIO and myself and the head of the processing center that was doing these uh spent some time and we were done by June 30th. But it was our great technologists who I think are delivering a lot of what you hear here in the uh whether it's on the web, whether it's in the field offices or on the phone.
▶ 1:23:04And and I appreciate you pointing out um you know the the numbers that were in our district. And I I just think for all of Ohioans um because there are 15 congressional district but the numbers that I had for all of Ohio approximately 223,000 received a total of 1.85 billion as a result of this and and again a credit to you.
▶ 1:23:35Um, I'd also like to take my last moment to turn attention to the impact the technology has done, but uh, obviously I only have 8 seconds and uh, and hopefully we can get the wait time even further, but from 47 to 5 minutes, that's pretty good. So, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:23:53Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Yakam from Indiana for five minutes for
▶ 1:23:57Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh, Commissioner Bizaniano, thanks for being here today. Uh I want to start by thanking you for taking the time to come and uh see me in my office uh here in advance of this hearing. Really appreciate the direct communication that you and I have. You've been very responsive uh to me. Your team is responsive to my team and I just want to thank you for that. Also want to say thank you for what you committed to over a year ago, which is to take a metric-driven and a resultsoriented approach to operations.
▶ 1:24:24uh you've you certainly as you look over the course of the last year uh you've been someone that has led the change inside of social security operations. You can either lead the change or change the leader and we appreciate the work that you've done and certainly hope that that continues into the future. Uh I'd like to to start uh with uh a question regarding something that you and I spoke about a year ago and that was uh on March 1st Martin Ali President of the President Biden's uh social security commissioner.
▶ 1:24:52He predicted and I quote ultimately you're going to see a collapse in the system and an interruption of benefits. He said I believe you will see that within the next 30 to 90 days. It's now been 466 days since he has made that statement. Commissioner Vizniano, has Social Security collapsed and have benefits been interrupted? Uh, I don't think they have. Is that correct?
▶ 1:25:13No, they've outperformed in double digit fashion. But I kind of understand why he said that because he was telling people who drove to your field office, go home and appointments needed. He took field office employees and sent them home and disregarded the fact that the web was down 29 hours a week.
▶ 1:25:36So, uh I think maybe he had a formula for that, but thank the good Lord we had the support of all of you and the president to change that outcome. Commissioner Bizniano, when when people like Bart Ali are out there making these apo apocalyptic statements, uh, when they're spreading these comp conspiracy theories, you know, hyperbolic predictions, how much more difficult is it for you to do your job, thanks to Democrats like Martin Omali?
▶ 1:26:01Well, I don't think it makes it any harder. You know, it's it's something we don't really pay attention to. Uh, you know, if you listen to boobirds in right field, you're not going to win games. uh our our career employees uh love what they do. Our leadership team has stayed intact. Not one change on that team, and that's political and career. And I think they've risen to the occasion.
▶ 1:26:29They're proud of what they're doing, more proud than they ever have been. You know, we used to describe social security as uh 70 plus uh million recipients of payments and keeping uh you know 15 or 20% of the people out of poverty. I think that actually affected the self-esteem of the department because most people they talk to every day are not a beneficiary.
▶ 1:26:58We have a disability process that is judges and you know we're just we're helping them through their process and if you come to our field office the number one thing asked for is a replacement card which we've built the technology for them not to have to come.
▶ 1:27:14So I think we've elevated the esteem of the department is the largest digital financial service provider in the world you know with 102 million digital accounts and yes with only 3% of our volume coming into field offices and half our staff in field offices we will never close a field office.
▶ 1:27:39Well, let's let's talk through some of those changes you made because the the number of beneficiaries continues to increase which makes social security even that much more important as we go into the future which of course that provides for you know there's be increased demand on your employees uh increased demand on services it could provide for a strain on systems uh but of course the hoosers that I serve have the same expectations for quick service quick decisions uh and accurate solutions in fact your agency received 22
▶ 1:28:09million service requests in fiscal year 2025. That's 113 million more than the previous year or a 19% increase. What operational reforms are most important to ensure that your agency can continue to meet the rising customer demands? Well, um, we had something called eye claims.
▶ 1:28:27And I claim sounded great if you did it, but it took a really long time to get ultimately finished because what it was was uh a bene a claimant put their claim in online, but it never went through the system. Somebody else inputed it, fraught with errors. We've we've determined it straight through processing. We've built the edits and right now, you know, we're processing Medicare claims to the hundreds of thousands.
▶ 1:28:56It's moving to retirement claims and know it happens in days, not weeks. So, those are types of things that allow us to serve more Americans. That's what we're talking about, serving more Americans quicker than ever before.
▶ 1:29:11Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. I now recognize Miss Chu from California for five minutes for questioning. Uh, Commissioner Biznano, you used to have all kinds of data points on your website on customer service, but last year you took them down and instead you have one highly misleading metric, which is your celebration of reducing the average speed of answer on SSA's phone line from 42 minutes back in 2024 to now just
▶ 1:29:415 minutes. Is it accurate that in calculating this number, your agency records a caller who selects the option to receive a call back as having a zero minute wait regardless of how long that called back takes to arrive. I just want a yes or no answer.
▶ 1:30:01I'll tell you a couple things. Um even though you want a yes or no answer. Yes or no.
▶ 1:30:05First of all, we have more metrics up than ever before on the web. So, let's just start there.
▶ 1:30:10Okay. So, uh you're not answering this question. Second, I'll answer your question. The answer is yes. And that's an industry standard across every industry. That's how it's counted
▶ 1:30:20So then thank you for that answer because that says yes. You record that as a zero.
▶ 1:30:25I just told you industry standard.
▶ 1:30:27Well, I Okay. Uh and what percent of callers select uh who select the call back option? What is their their current average weight to get that call back? Not the average speed of answer, but the wait time specifically to get a call back. And I heard your answer to Mr. Davis earlier. I don't want the post satisfaction survey. I want an actual number in terms of how long it takes for them to get a call back.
▶ 1:30:55Takes today uh under 30 minutes on average. By the way, some take five
▶ 1:31:01Well, okay. Then how about the next one, which is what?
▶ 1:31:04By the way, they select it because it's better service.
▶ 1:31:08What is the current average weight? 800
▶ 1:31:11What is the current average weight for callers who choose to remain on hold? Not the average speed of answer, but the average time callers wait on hold until they are able to speak with someone. Again, I want a specific number.
▶ 1:31:26I don't have that number in front of me,
▶ 1:31:28Two hours. 46 minutes to two hours.
▶ 1:31:30Okay. I do have the answers I to these three questions. One is you record uh those who have a do the option for a call back as a zero minute wait. The percentage of uh callers who get the uh call back option have to wait according to the inspector general 1 hour and 51 minutes and the courage the current average weight for callers who choose to remain on hold is 59 minutes.
▶ 1:31:59So, Commissioner, I find it extremely misleading that you're touting the so-called average speed of answer of five minutes
▶ 1:32:08as improved customer service when the number has little to do with what the American people are really experiencing when they're trying to call SSA. In fact, this number of five minutes is dramatically lower than the actual wait times. And we know this because we hear countless stories from our own constituents about being stuck on the phone for hours.
▶ 1:32:29But we also have the data because the SSA's own inspector general did a study this last December and found that the a while the average speed la last year in 2025 was 16 minutes, the real average time for people on hold was almost an hour and the average wait time to get a call back was almost two hours. And why was the actual average speed so much lower?
▶ 1:32:56Because every time somebody chose that call back option, your agency counted that as a wait time of zero. So the average lowered very dramatically. So Commissioner, the American people deserve accurate information on how long they can expect to wait when trying to get help for their benefits. and SSA used to share all that information on its website, but you did remove that last year.
▶ 1:33:26And it it makes one wonder whether you're trying to hide um the actual numbers when it comes to customer service. And that brings me to another data point, which is about the wait times for inperson appointments.
▶ 1:33:42And uh one news report followed a woman who whose husband passed away in July of last year, but couldn't get an in-person appointment to apply for survivor benefits until October, even though she had started calling SSA to schedule just days after her husband's death. That's 3 months of waiting just to start the process. Once she finally got an appointment, she then had to wait at least four months.
▶ 1:34:11So, I urge you to restore these real data points to your AY's website and update them regularly because the public deserves to know. And I yield back.
▶ 1:34:26Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Bean from Florida for 5 minutes for questioning.
▶ 1:34:30Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good morning to you. Good morning, uh, Ways and Means Committee. Good morning, Commissioner. Welcome back, uh, to Ways Means. There's been talk of, uh, how are you doing? Well, guess what, uh, Commissioner, I have your report card right here. Uh, let's review it, shall we? Uh, it says this. It says, "You are now serving more Americans with fewer employees. Wait times on the National 800 number have shrunk by 84%.
▶ 1:34:57Wait times have gone from 42 minutes to 7 minutes. Uh, and you have uh taken the backlog of disability claims. Uh, it's been reduced by 33% uh from an historic high of 1.27 27 million pending claims in 2024. Thank you uh for doing that. And uh it's pretty good. It's a it's a report card that you should probably put on your refrigerator. That's how good this is. Uh Commissioner, but you said in your open statement, you're not done. You can do better.
▶ 1:35:26What can this committee assist you with to make those numbers e put some pluses on those A's? What can we do, Commissioner, to help you? Well, I think uh being here is very helpful because it gets you to understand the strategy. The strategy is really about meeting clients where they want to be met. The strategy is about what is the expectation across industry in general.
▶ 1:35:53Whatever you're doing, that recipe for your team has helped. It's helped my team. We don't get as many calls on help me with my social security. So, thank you for uh for for doing that. Uh, Social Security though has a history of trying to do their own computer programs and doing things that hasn't gone well in the past. So, are you still looking at uh private vendors that can uh take us to the next level in processing?
▶ 1:36:19I met with a company called Evolution IQ and I'm sure there's others, but this company uh just has works for several states and they expedite claims uh and they also root out fraud. Is that something you're looking at,
▶ 1:36:32Yeah. Well, we're we're uh always focused on how we're going to bring advanced technology. You know, um if you look at what we did with taking the 29 hours away of downtime off the web, uh that was a mix of really great engineers inside and and some other people. Uh if you look at what we're doing in fraud using advanced analytics. So, you know, there's no great tech or that can just do everything themselves.
▶ 1:37:02And I think uh it's not about modernizing, it's about transforming and transforming ultimately for the benefit of uh the American
▶ 1:37:11for and so you are looking at private vendors and whatnot. Anything that we can do to uh to uh to do better than we're already doing. Uh I want to give you some time and uh I know it's been publicized this week 2032 is going to be a crossover date where we have to make changes before that date. Make changes and uh I would hate to see that anybody in Congress would use fear. Uh but we have to make sound decisions and we've got time to make some decisions.
▶ 1:37:41So I I want to give you some time. your thoughts on that date, your thought on some of the changes, uh, changes that could be made without affecting anybody that's already on the on the Social Security program. What say you,
▶ 1:37:55Well, what what I thought the first thing that was mandatory is uh to get it to work. Right. Right. You know, uh I always think if you make the operations better, people are prepared to invest in those operations. Uh and no matter uh what we want to do, all we have to do is compare the data from 24 to date on how the American public's being served and compare the data on our control environment.
▶ 1:38:25You know, we came we we took down control issues by fundamentally 80% and reduced uh you know 16 billion dollars of erroneous uh problem. And I know once we eliminate fraud, there's billions of still payments that we've made. Bank robbers uh or people that have stolen money have to have realized they don't have to rob banks anymore. They can just build the government or or or utilize uh fraud in a lot of spaces. What about your thoughts?
▶ 1:38:54I know we just got a little bit, but on on Social Security not having the funds going forward in 2032, what are your thoughts there? Like I said, I always thought my job was to make it perform as well as possible. So you all have a set of options and choices to decide on how this uh great American program which is, you know, fundamentally called by some the largest insurance program out there. Others could call it the largest retirement program out there.
▶ 1:39:25Uh anyway, the idea is to make it perform well so you all can make the decision.
▶ 1:39:29Thank you for your service, Commissioner. Thanks for that information. And there will be some big big decisions that have to be made with this program. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you so much.
▶ 1:39:37Well, thank you. Um now recognize Mr. Miller from Ohio for 5 minutes for
▶ 1:39:43Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good to see you again, Mr. Bziniano. Uh and thank you for after our last hearing in the phone call and applaud you and your efforts for what you're doing in SSA. So, it's good to see you again.
▶ 1:39:53Good to see you.
▶ 1:39:54So, Social Security is not an abstraction. It's a promise as we know. and to workers who spent decades contributing to families who lost an income earner, to Americans with disabilities, and to retirees who helped build this country. As you know, more than 71 million people depend on monthly benefits, and this agency touches virtually every American family. It must work. For too long, it didn't.
▶ 1:40:15Outdated technology, antiquated processes, and the service model that left beneficiaries waiting sometimes over 40 minutes on the phone define the SSA for decades. The disability backlog reached an all-time high of 1.27 million claims. That and it is unacceptable. Progress is now being made and we're very appreciative. Phone weight times have now dropped 84%. Field office weight times are down 30%.
▶ 1:40:43The Disability Backlog has been cut by a third and Social Security Fairness Act was implemented months ahead of schedule. So, applaud your efforts and your team on that. But progress is not a reason to stop. We must keep investing in technology that improves the experience for every beneficiary. And greater efficiency must mean fewer improper payments. Every dollar lost to error or fraud is a dollar that should have reached someone who earned it. I also want to raise an issue that deserves more attention.
▶ 1:41:10The barriers this system places on people with disabilities who want to work. 60% of DI and SSI recipients say they want to. Yet the Ticket to Work program is barely reaching them. Only one in 10 has ever used it. A third have never even heard of it.
▶ 1:41:26Those who try to face a 70-year page guide book, a punishing process that anyone would have trouble getting through and a system so slow that even a proper wage reporting can trigger an overpayment months later, which is insane and unnecessary paperwork. As we all know, government programs should open doors and not build walls. So, you know, Commissioner, as I stated above, about 1 in 10 DI and SSI beneficiaries has used the Ticket to Work program, and a third have never even heard of it.
▶ 1:41:57Meanwhile, 60% of recipients say they want to work. So, what specific steps are you and the SSA taking to simplify work incentive rules, improve beneficiary awareness, and critically fix the overpayment problem that truly punishes the people who try to return to work even when they follow the rules? Yeah, I think those are uh all great uh points that are all uh being worked on.
▶ 1:42:22Why don't we start at the top because uh we are now uh and I would I would give the committee credit and uh you know, chairman Le Hood uh for being dedicated to Ticket to Work and spending time with his office on Ticket to Work and the real answer is greater education by every network out there. you know, we put somebody in charge of the program. There was no one in charge of it. If you don't have someone in charge of it, the odds of it succeeding are zero. We did the same with SSI.
▶ 1:42:53I think uh that allows us to go out to the outside and explain to him and to people on the inside uh who are on the program. and we have an opportunity to talk to these people all the time our own on disability and improving that dialogue. So I think we're at the start. I think the program did not have the attention.
▶ 1:43:20If you don't have a dedicated, we did it on SSI and ticket to work, but a dedicated executive who reports into me and they run the program. So I would expect when you know and happy happy to give updates as I have to chairman Hood on those items relative to improper payments.
▶ 1:43:43The more we build out a payment information exchange, which we do with uh you know massive orgs who have the data and we've really veered into it and the more we cut down payment cycles, the better our uh accuracy of payment as opposed to improper payments will be and continue to be.
▶ 1:44:06Thank you very much uh for that detailed answer and response. And I just want to say as a social security administrator, you're doing a phenomenal job and previously when you were brought in here, uh, you know, I believe that I treated you very unfairly. So I do well, no, I it means a lot to me and I like to sleep at night. So I do want to apologize in front of you and your entire staff and everyone in the committee and people who are here. You were put in a very untenuous position in some you received something that you never asked for.
▶ 1:44:33Uh but you're doing the best that you can and I very much appreciate what you're doing on behalf of the American people and I'm very glad to see that our constituents in the seventh district in Kyhoga and Madina Wayne and Holmes and soon to be Ashland if they call uh social security they no longer have to wait uh until maybe their grandchild is born. So thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:44:53You know there's $381 million a month that go to your beneficiaries in your district. Uh so congrats for what you're
▶ 1:45:02Thank you sir. appreciate it.
▶ 1:45:04Thank you. I'd now recognize Mr. Horford from Nevada for five minutes for
▶ 1:45:08Thank you, Chairman Estus to the ranking member. Uh, Commissioner, uh, last year you came before the committee and committed to ensuring that Social Security field offices would be better staffed, more efficient, and better equipped to serve the public. Today, Nevada families are experiencing something that's very different. In Las Vegas, disability hearing wait times average nearly 11 months, among the long longest in the nation.
▶ 1:45:35My office continues to hear from seniors, people with disabilities, and working families who cannot get answers and cannot access benefits that they deserve. Last year, you promised improvements. Today, Las Vegas disability applicants are waiting nearly 11 months. Do you believe that that's acceptable? Yes or no? Well, what I know is that uh as an example, your field office wait times are down 60%. Right?
▶ 1:46:05And that uh that's a 34 minute decrease from 24. I'm not looking at your disability numbers and I'll come back to you on them. But if you look at our total disability numbers,
▶ 1:46:17I'm I'm I'm asking specifically about Las Vegas.
▶ 1:46:21I'll compare them with you because I I didn't hear you talking about the field
▶ 1:46:25I did. That's where I started 11 months. I just started. Did you understand?
▶ 1:46:31I just asked if 11 months was acceptable or not. Yes or no? Is it acceptable?
▶ 1:46:37Did you understand people should wait 11
▶ 1:46:39Did you understand?
▶ 1:46:40Commissioner reclaiming my time. I'm going to I'm going to rather than us going back and forth, let me share a message from one of my constituents that that told me and my staff that they have been calling and visiting the local office for months and nobody can tell them anything. My case has sat unresolved for 7 months. I have no food. I can't pay my rent and I'm facing Commissioner, that is not a statistic. That is a neadan.
▶ 1:47:11So, will you designate a senior SSA point person to work directly with me in my office on unresolved constituent cases like this one? Yes or no?
▶ 1:47:22I'll give my head of disability to come see you and your office. Thank you.
▶ 1:47:27I right now show that you have commissioner. No, you don't want to really deal with the numbers. Commissioner, this week Speaker Johnson said on a local radio program, "Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid need to be quote adjusted and fixed." Americans who rely on Social Security deserve a clear answer. Have you been involved in any discussions about reducing Social Security benefits, raising the retirement age, or restricting eligibility for benefits? Yes or no?
▶ 1:48:00That is important for me to know on the record. Now, I would like the speaker and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to tell us what they mean by adjusted and fixed when it comes to social security, Medicare and me Um, let me turn to the issue uh around the average SSDI beneficiary receives about $19,000
▶ 1:48:31a year. The average retired worker receives about $25,000 a year. Should Americans who paid into Social Security their entire working lives have to wait 11 months for a disability hearing? Yes or no? Disability hearing time is at an all-time low.
▶ 1:48:50Should they have
▶ 1:48:51alltime low? It's at an all-time low. How long you've been standing up there sitting there? How many years? How many years you've been here?
▶ 1:48:58So, h is it acceptable, sir?
▶ 1:49:02Well, it's the best performance you've ever had. So, you should think about
▶ 1:49:07Well, it's not uh good enough for the people who paid into a system.
▶ 1:49:12Somehow you allowed it deserve before to be worse. I haven't allowed anything. can you guarantee that no Neadan social security number, earnings record, or medical information was shared with an unauthorized third party? Yes or no?
▶ 1:49:36How? and and you will state that for the record that none of their personal information has been shared with the third party uh unauthorized third party.
▶ 1:49:46I just said it. It is important because Americans trust Social Security Administration with their most sensitive personal information. And my constituents are not asking for excuses. They're asking for service. They earned these benefits and they deserve timely access to them. And I'll work with you. Thank you for your commitment today along with my office to resolve these cases and reduce these unacceptable delays.
▶ 1:50:17Whether it's 11 months, 6 months, or one month, they deserve their benefits. With that, I yield back.
▶ 1:50:25I now recognize Mr. Moran from Texas for five minutes for question.
▶ 1:50:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Bizano, thank you for being here today. As commissioner, you oversee one of the most impactful agencies in the federal government, ensuring that millions of Americans receive their benefits. There's no question about that. Under your leadership and the leadership of President Trump, the Social Security Administration has made meaningful progress in reducing weight times, addressing backlogs, and improving service delivery for beneficiaries across the country. You've been citing a number of these statistics throughout the hearing today.
▶ 1:50:57I want to give you before I move on a chance to uh respond because you were trying to provide Mr. Horzford some statistics for his district but he cut you off. I'd like to give you an opportunity to finish what you were saying and to cite those
▶ 1:51:11Yeah. Well, what I was saying is uh in uh it took 56 minutes in a field office uh to get served and today it takes 22. I also know because we have a centralized system that never existed before that there's seven pending congressional inquiries with us from his office. Uh and we would like every one of them resolved.
▶ 1:51:37But you know this is the pure real data captured the same way it was before. We never knew how much was in congressional offices before until we built the system so we could know everyone. That's all I was trying to say the facts.
▶ 1:51:51Yeah, those are great. Will the gentleman yield since you want to reference my district?
▶ 1:51:55No. Uh but I did want to give I did want to give absolutely an opportunity
▶ 1:52:00because my question was about the
▶ 1:52:02I did not time I did not yield my time.
▶ 1:52:05So uh I think don't reference my district. I think that's really impressive out of 800,000 people in a congressional district that you have seven open claims in that district and that you've committed to resolve those claims and that you've reduced those weight times significantly in the past year to the lowest in record. So, I think that's really impressive. You've also emphasized the importance of combating fraud and protecting beneficiaries who seek to uh to exploit the system.
▶ 1:52:32I believe members on both sides of the aisle share the goal of ensuring that Americans, particularly seniors, are protected from bad actors who target them for financial gain. Unfortunately, many of these malign actors operate from overseas, including from China. As the Social Security Administration's Office of Inspector General has noted, transnational criminal networks are increasingly targeting older Americans through sophisticated fraud schemes that steal billions of dollars each year.
▶ 1:53:00Far too often, these criminals deceive victims into providing sensitive personal information or transferring funds, causing significant financial harm, and undermining confidence in government programs. Mr. Commissioner, I remain deeply concerned about foreign actors, targeting American seniors through fraud schemes designed to steal their benefits and sensitive personal information. Can you tell us what specific steps is the Social Security Administration taking to prevent foreignbased fraudsters and other bad actors from accessing beneficiaries accounts or stealing their
▶ 1:53:30Well, um the first thing I like to refer to is uh two key strategic things we did uh as I came in um and assessed the situation. We created a chief risk officer reporting directly to me and we went and recruited uh head of the secret service and then uh the head of the park police to be the head of cyber security, security and resiliency.
▶ 1:53:54And why those are so important is that's the first lines of defense we have is having the right talent with the right expertise to be able to uh prevent fraud, identify bad actors.
▶ 1:54:08Um obviously we've been very focused you know we do everything the IG and ourselves work closely on uh all types of fraud prevention and along with that you know I think highlighting uh in every imaginable way communicating with our elderly I think it's important that they recognize the scamsters out there. I yesterday did another another broadcast.
▶ 1:54:36We did slam the scam day with uh the inspector general. We uh prevent elder abuse. The largest abuse they could have is people scamming them and and their money. Uh and we try to broadcast as much to all networks. to know that uh how to protect their identity and that uh there's no federal agency that will ever call and ask them to do something that they went
▶ 1:55:03Yeah. And I think I heard you say earlier about these two new positions that they were once lower positions and you've elevated them to report directly to you because of the significance and the impact. Did I hear that correctly?
▶ 1:55:14Yeah. I think that's the right way to go. And that should send a message to the American people that you're serious about protecting their data and their the funds that are coming to them. That's the kind of reorganization and the management of 50,000 employees uh that we've needed for a really long time. We appreciate the work that you're doing. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
▶ 1:55:33Thank you. I recognize Mr. Finster from Iowa for five minutes for questioning.
▶ 1:55:37Uh thank you, Chairman SDS. I greatly appreciate holding this. Thank you also, Commissioner Visaniano, for coming. Um, I'm just so impressed. I appreciate what you have done uh for this agency. Uh, it's just have seen tremendous progress since you've been there from reducing uh the phone and field office wait times to modernizing the agency and strengthening internal oversight. You know, I just heard you talk about fraud and prevention of it. Uh, kudos to you for addressing that.
▶ 1:56:06That has not been done in decades and you've done that. uh delivering faster, more reliable service to millions of Americans uh is really making a difference to my beneficiaries and I'm very grateful for all your leadership. Um I'm also glad to see that uh the CBO's most recent 10-year economic outlook includes an easy to understand graph showing scheduled and payable benefits that my uh bill called for in the Savior Seniors Act. Uh we got to have transparency.
▶ 1:56:34I think every person in the country needs to know where uh where SSA stands. Uh this is this is key. Um as we move forward, uh Biziano, can you talk about transparency and how we can continue to improve our system uh for all Americans when it comes to Social Security Administration?
▶ 1:56:56Yeah. Well, I think uh what we like to do is ensure the information that we're providing equals what the American public wants to know. And I think most of all, you know, understanding what happens in our field office, uh what happens on the phone and what happens on the web and uh I think that's the way they transact with us.
▶ 1:57:23And then on the web, having them availability to do everything they can, including getting their Benny statement, right?
▶ 1:57:32Uh, and of course, not everybody can print it at home. Um, but of course, many can come in our field office and get that whenever they want. Uh, we're building better functionality that if they can't print it at home, but they have the web that will print it right there for them and waiting for them.
▶ 1:57:50uh you know uh I think social security with over a 100 million digital users and over 300 million social security numbers serving America uh is the number one personal identifier for everybody and protecting that is is first and
▶ 1:58:06Yep. I agree. I agree. So this predates uh your tenure at the agency. The GAO raised long-standing concerns about the weakness in the SSA's oversight and governance of the IT investments. For instance, before you took over as commissioner, the SSA spent multiple years and paid 160 million in transition for the national 800 number phone systems to the next generation telephone project just for the agency to abandon the system in August 24.
▶ 1:58:36What changes have you made to strengthen accountability for major IT investments? I mean, I I see it so critical as we're moving forward in this in this agency. Can you just briefly talk about that?
▶ 1:58:49Yes. Um I think the first thing is uh management visibility and so we built this tool uh which is a a great tool and our technology or is delivering more than it ever had which allows uh all projects to have full visibility to all those engaged and any date change or dollar economic change gets flashed immediately.
▶ 1:59:14So call it's called uh SSA 360 but every project has an ROI to it and we manage it uh in a diligent fashion and I think that's a big governor to how we run the place. You know we look at the numbers we ensure projects are on track and we ensure it's getting the desired result.
▶ 1:59:36Can can you also uh so so you got that moving forward which is awesome. How do you allow your workforce to to be trained in these new technologies? Is that a challenge or or can you manage
▶ 1:59:48No, I think um I think you'll always have some balance of needing uh external expertise and internal expertise. That would be true everywhere in the world, not just here. I think it starts off with uh and I'll give a shout out to our CIO. Uh I think if you ask the great people who have spent their careers in social security, we actually have a in charge of technology.
▶ 2:00:17Sort of important
▶ 2:00:18and and I think there is no substitute for experience. Uh as a matter of fact, he was a technologist for a payment company. And if you look at the heart of one of the main things we do, it's payments. Uh and I think our CIO has done an outstanding job. Well, I just want to tell you I think you're a rock star in what you're doing in this this agency. Commissioner, thanks for all your work and I yield back.
▶ 2:00:41Again, now recognize Mr. Evans from Pennsylvania for five minutes for
▶ 2:00:46Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, Mr. Part of this administration failure on social security has been taking back Sometimes social security payments someone pays more through no fault of their own. When President Trump returned to office, he brought back holding a person's check to withhold payments.
▶ 2:01:16Later it was brought down to 50%. But it still is too high. I have a bill to cap down to 50%. But still do I have a bill to cap withholding for at 10%. We must pass this bill to protect America's earned benefits.
▶ 2:01:41Our seniors should not be forced to choose between rent, food, and I say those things to you, Mr. because people have real concerns. Could you could I apologize and ask you to move your mic a little closer, Mr.
▶ 2:02:03I say those things to you because people have real concerns about the withholding of payments and the fact that part of this semester failure of social security has been taking back payments. When President Trump returned to office, he brought back withholding a person's check to withhold these payments. Later, it was brought down to 50%, but it's still too high. I have a bill to cap withholding at 10%.
▶ 2:02:32We must pass this bill to protect Americans earned benefits. Our seniors should not be forced to choose between rent, food, and healthcare. So I stress that to you commissioner because this is earned benefits. This is something people have earned. They should make sure we should make. So I want to yield the balance of my time to you.
▶ 2:03:02If you have any comments, give me com. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 2:03:05Thank you, sir.
▶ 2:03:06Mr. Chair,
▶ 2:03:08I now recognize Mr. Moore from Utah for five minutes for questioning.
▶ 2:03:11Thank you, Chairman. Thanks for being here, Mr. Commissioner. First, I want to thank you for your work that you've done to modernize the Social Security Administration as well as, you know, bring in technology to try to uh enhance the experience. Only in Congress could you, as a recovering management consultant, only in Congress could you come and get criticized for using industry standards and KPIs and measuring yourself against these these these indicators that can actually help you improve.
▶ 2:03:37So, just know that it's appreciated and the and the work that you're doing is is is definitely valuable. I'd like to enter for the record on the importance of technology modernization from Attekus, a company dedicated to helping beneficiaries navigate the SSA. I'd like to uh enter this record um this letter on the uh into the record.
▶ 2:03:56Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 2:03:58Thank you. First question relates to the disability insurance beneficiaries who are able to work and are starting the process of re-entering the workforce. As these Americans explore work opportunities, one of the major questions they have is how their current benefits may be impacted after returning to work. This information is not readily available and often takes months to get from SSA. How can the SSA help these Can they provide them and their representation with this information? Can it be done through online access?
▶ 2:04:27Just a little bit of thoughts there.
▶ 2:04:29Yeah, I think uh I think all the above. Um, and what you're highlighting is something that I think we should also work with the advocate community and create the right portal for them for their own individual situation so they have a basic statement um that tells them everything they're asking. They don't have to navigate.
▶ 2:04:53And I'm happy to get the team to go look at that, go to the advocate community, make sure we have alignment on what good looks like and produce it. Is this stuff enhanced online capabilities for advocates could be able to access that even better than some beneficiaries as well as um making the [clears throat] disability insurance beneficiaries. Is it can be done something that's in real time?
▶ 2:05:16Okay. Awesome. Um, I there's a I want to talk quickly about walk-in. I know there's been back and forth on on walk-in appointments. As as you know, I represent Northern Utah and then there's an Ogden office. I've spoken with community members, heard multiple concerns about some of the inconsistencies with walk-in options at the Ogden SSA office. As I understand it, SSA officially ended walk-in appointments in early 2024, but Ogden office only stopped them for a few weeks before resuming.
▶ 2:05:46Uh, at one point, Ogden SSA was, I think, the only location in Utah to offer walk-in appointments, and now the Ogden office has again stopped the in-person appointments. Difficult for some members of the um community and the beneficiaries to to navigate everything online. They do like do they do like an option to be able to walk in. Can you provide an update on current status of walk-in appointments and work you're doing to ensure the um top tier customer service continue at SSA?
▶ 2:06:13Well, this sign was in all the offices. Appointment needed. Appointments are required for most services at Social I'm disappointed to hear about Ogden because we ripped them down and said nobody should ever be turned away. And so I need to go find out why that's happening there. The standard is are accepted as is.
▶ 2:06:44Uh yes. Uh if people want an appointment, we'll make them an appointment. Um but I don't think we should ever refuse a walk-in.
▶ 2:06:54Love it. And we'll help however we can.
▶ 2:06:56I got to go figure out what's going on
▶ 2:06:58Great. Let us use you use our office, our resources as we're close to it. Um we'll be we'll be all in to be able to help navigate this. [clears throat] And I I think everybody from your end to the local offices, our office all want ultimately what's best and and and ease of use. And so we'll do we'll do what we
▶ 2:07:15Um one last question. We're tracking the SSA recently joined the trusted exchange framework and common agreement TEFCA. This is this network for transmitting electronic health information. It's a standards body that sets rules and baseline requirements for health information network across the country. How will joining this network speed up the process of DI claims?
▶ 2:07:38Well, you know, um it's broader than just that's an element of it, right? Uh we have a system that uh is coming in effect that should just completely what this process is uh in terms of getting to decisioning a lot quicker. the whole objective is decisioning a lot quicker.
▶ 2:08:03Uh, of course, if you went back over time, the size of a file has completely changed, but I think we could revert it all back. Uh, we will uh, you know, use AI in the process too to help us uh, get information to uh, those who need it a lot quicker than possible.
▶ 2:08:27So, you know, we're in relentless pursuit on every indicator in the place to just continually to get a historic best norm. So, I I have great I have great expectations for the exchange. I have great expectations for what we're doing in the base build we're doing and I I think we should never talk about times going up but only down in the future for the rest of our life.
▶ 2:08:51Thanks for bringing a business approach to this. Appreciate it. Neil back.
▶ 2:08:54Thank you.
▶ 2:08:54I now recognize Mr. Mucker from Pennsylvania for 5 minutes for
▶ 2:08:58Thank you uh to the chairman. Thank you, Commissioner, for your work at uh at Social Security. Um, and I want to want to go back maybe to the beginning of this hearing, some of the comments that may been been made by the ranking member um, who, um, I I have great deal of respect for because I know he cares so deeply about this program and I agree with uh, much of what he said in that this
▶ 2:09:29is I think social security uh, critically important to hundreds or I don't know how many million people. You know that number, but uh it and it's probably the best
▶ 2:09:39300 over 300 million.
▶ 2:09:41So, hundreds of millions um over 300 million and it's probably the best anti-poverty program that we have going. This is designed to ensure that uh our elderly senior citizens do not live in uh poverty. Um and so I think we agree um on much of that. I do want to push back just a little bit on the efficiency portion of it. The two don't need to be at odds with one another.
▶ 2:10:10Like we really want first of all the promises that have been made to people who have been paying into the system to be upheld. We want people to be confident that they're going to have the benefits that they've been promised. Um so that's really important. But we also want them to be able to access that um in like when they call in, we want them to get the responses.
▶ 2:10:38Um and we want you as a commissioner to design a system where we're ensured that every single dollar is going to the individual whose promise has been made and not to uh someone else. So, I just want to say I appreciate the work that you're doing to try to drive a more efficient system to deliver those um important benefits.
▶ 2:11:03And when I hear things like the wait time has gone down from 42 minutes to 7 minutes, I think that's pretty good uh result for people who are who are calling in. Wait times at field offices reduced by 30%. I don't know if these are all accurate, but this is what's in front of us. I can tell you the social security system is uh of of federal agencies where individuals call into our office.
▶ 2:11:31It's one of the top and I'd love to see that reduced because we know that it's working better. So, I want a more efficient system. Um and I think we should all um want that. Um, I I also agree uh and I I'm going to want you to respond to this.
▶ 2:11:49Um, as as a trustee of the system, knowing the the report you just put out, the trustees put out um yesterday that says that social security will no longer will be unsolvent uh essentially by within six um and barring an act of Congress, um everyone would get a reduction of 22% of their benefits.
▶ 2:12:18Um I don't think people really get that or understand that. And in fact, I saw I just was discussing a poll yesterday that only 30% of the American people had any kind of inkling that that was the case. And I think it's incumbent on us to solve that. And I want members of the public to be calling in uh and demanding that their members of Congress be taking action.
▶ 2:12:45Um and yes, um you know, you could raise the payroll tax, but that won't solve it. You that'd be one potential thing. And in fact, if you did it only through taxes, [clears throat] it would be the largest tax increase on younger wage earning people that we've ever the largest increase we've ever um seen. And I'm just not sure if it's
▶ 2:13:08Well, I'm almost out of time. I'd love to have you respond, but I'm not sure it's fair to be demanding a lot more from our wage earners today to help individuals when there's no wage when there's no income cap for those earnings. So, for instance, another change we could potentially make would be to means test it so that it truly is a anti-poverty program. And I'd love to have this discussion. We'd love to work with Mr. Lawson and and the chairman to to help solve this.
▶ 2:13:35We've got to do it and we can do it and ensure benefits uh are kept. But as a trustee, uh what responsibility do you feel that the that you have as a trustee to help people understand the situation that we're in and what are your plans to uh help make the public more aware of the situation we're in? So, they're calling their members of Congress and asking them to solve it.
▶ 2:14:02Well, um,
▶ 2:14:02you have a second to answer that. I'm sorry. [laughter]
▶ 2:14:06Yes. No.
▶ 2:14:07No. Literally, what?
▶ 2:14:08Well, I I I you know, I thought the first response, look, it uh I'm the commissioner of Social Security. It's a six-year term, and I understood that during that period of time, or at least I was hopeful, that we would solve this problem, right? So I I came into this understanding we needed to fix something. Uh I think the first thing was to uh work under the president's mandate protect and preserve.
▶ 2:14:38And to protect and preserve meant to do exactly what we're doing, serve the American public better. So in fact, it would give you all the opportunity to think about what is right and hear from your constituents. Um, and then and then lastly, uh, I think higher quality costs less. So this idea, I don't really think of it as efficiency.
▶ 2:15:05I think about quality for the American public and we should be able to do it with less fraud, less waste, and less abuse. And we see that in billions of dollars. So I thought that was job one and empower you all to feel confident that we have something that can last for another 90 years in its way to operate and then in fact say what are we going to do about it. Um and look at I think as a trustee we produce a trustees report that tells everybody the facts.
▶ 2:15:36Thank thank you Mr. Chairman. I appreciate gentleman's time's expired. Now recognize Mr. Byer from Virginia for five minutes for questioning.
▶ 2:15:43Yeah Mr. Chairman, thank you. And Mr. Ranking member, um, Commissioner Bessiano, thank you for coming back again. I had a chance to recently visit uh my social security office for a morning. Uh, I was impressed. Great people. Uh, they love their work. They love helping people.
▶ 2:16:00The one uncomfortable part is that they all felt um that to catch up on the paperwork after meeting with customers all day, it often work into the evenings or have to come in on Saturdays. Um it was one month for an appointment and if you did the walk-ins, which they were still taking, it was basically you you waited all day. Um and I know I go back a year, it was, you know, 120 minute wait time.
▶ 2:16:27So, I appreciate that you identified addressing phone weight times was an important priority and but previously when employees were temporarily assigned to phones during emergency situations, they apparently received months of training and they shadowed a full-time phone operator. Now, it's reported that they're getting three hours of training before being placed on phones basically the same day and that they're sometimes given bizarre and dangerous instructions.
▶ 2:16:50Let me quote from government executive, which is not a left-wing newspaper, that the the Social Security Administration's instructed employees newly assigned to answering phones to tell callers expressing suicidal thoughts that suicide is only one option. Can you take responsibility for the poor training for newly assigned employees?
▶ 2:17:13And why not just get new trained staff rather than moving existing staff over this the notion that the demand for the phone call stuff even with the move to online is not going away.
▶ 2:17:28Yeah, I think that uh let's let's make sure we got our facts right. I always like that. Um in 2024 in your district, the wait time in field offices was 77.8 minutes. The number produced before I was here, it wasn't my number, but we use the same exact methodology that we use there.
▶ 2:17:52Today, commissioner,
▶ 2:17:54today the wait time in your field offices are 18.6 minutes. That's 60 minute. That's 60 minutes less.
▶ 2:18:05That Mr. Commissioner that was not I appreciate that not questioning those. My ask was what about the training for the temporary
▶ 2:18:13Congressman? Congressman,
▶ 2:18:16right? This is a holistic thing we do serving Americans, right? Whether they call on the phone, whether they walk in the field office, whether they go on the
▶ 2:18:28What do you think about what do you think about one of your members, your phone callers, telling people with suicide, active suicide thoughts, that it's just an option? I shouldn't that that's partly best practice.
▶ 2:18:40I think we amended that message. And by the way,
▶ 2:18:46we got that from an authority and we went back to the authority, right? If you want to make that what this hearing is about, that's kind of fine. We could talk about that one line. We can also talk about the fact that your wait time's gone seven down 76%. We can also talk about the fact that the field office visits are down 3%.
▶ 2:19:08I I just wanted you to say that you were actually addressing the issue without we addressed it four months ago when it
▶ 2:19:16Okay, good. Let me also move on to one of the most frequent complaints I have right now is that it's impossible to get any help from GSA for either the login gov or the IDME. And I think it's a fine thing to move everything to SSA, but right now my constituents are stuck dealing with these access issues on their own. And it often takes them once again a month to get the appointment to come and to get them some so that they can go online so they can do the modernization.
▶ 2:19:41So are there any plans to improve login for my SSA from GSA and
▶ 2:19:46a top priority? It's a top priority.
▶ 2:19:49A top priority.
▶ 2:19:50Thank you. One last question. Mr. Smucker and I championed a bill that would redefine the claiming age categories. Um the simple terminology change, minimum benefit age, early eligibility age. I'm sure you know about it. Do you anticipate these terminology changes over over time will make the backlogs reduce? Will it be helpful for you if we pass this?
▶ 2:20:11I'm I've never actually thought that uh they would change backlogs, but I I mean I'm I'm an I'm I'm supportive of what you want to do and I don't think those are the key. If that's your key driver to that, it's probably not the answer. We got to reduce backlogs always. That's all we ever do is reduce backlogs
▶ 2:20:32and to the point where they're no longer backlogs, they're inventory.
▶ 2:20:36Okay. Well, we very much appreciate reducing backlogs. And before I yield, I'd like to submit the government executive article for the record. Without objection, so ordered. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. I'd like to thank Commissioner Bizaniano for appearing before us today. Please be advised that members have two weeks to submit written questions to be addressed later in writing. Those questions and the answers will be made part of the formal hearing
▶ 2:21:02Mr. Chairman, could I I [clears throat] neglected to start for the record, could I just uh wanted to submit the Ways and Means Republican Social Security data and this article from payment dive. Without objection, so ordered. With that, subcommittee stands adjourned.