▶ 0:13:19The chair recognizes himself for an opening statement. Welcome to today's subcommittee markup to consider eight bills to lower costs for households and promote innovation in our electric sector, while ensuring the united states remains in pole position to win the race with communist china for an ai development.
▶ 0:13:40The legislation before our subcommittee is the culmination of extensive regular order process to ensure sufficient public input and technical assistance throughout this congress. Witnesses before our subcommittee have made things crystal clear. Our nation is in the midst of. Concerning a reliability crisis, affordability challenges, straining household budgets and electric sector must meet the moment to ensure our country can compete and win in the next generation economy. Pardon me.
▶ 0:14:14These pillars have been our north star. Today, we're taking action to improve the daily lives of everyday american families. Importantly, h.r. 9340 the ratepayer protection act, introduced by my colleague from colorado's eighth congressional district, seeks to ensure that costs associated with rapid load growth are not placed on the backs of captive ratepayers. This concept is simple.
▶ 0:14:39Hard working american households should not foot the bill for the costs that are caused by the growing electricity demands from large energy users. Using using a light touch target and forward looking approach, h.r. 9344 provides direction to state utility commissions to establish large load tariffs that can methodically fuel investment into job creating industries, while protecting households from picking up the tab.
▶ 0:15:06Our electric grid needs additional capacity and fast, yet transmission costs have increased dramatically in the 21st century, while fuel and generation costs have plummeted. The cheapest transmission line is one that you don't have to build. H.r. 6630 6633.
▶ 0:15:21The high capacity grid act, sponsored by our colleague from north dakota's at large congressional district, will enhance our bulk power system with advanced conductors that have a higher carrying capacity to usher in a modernized electric system. H.r. 9335.
▶ 0:15:42The advanced transmission and reduce rates act, sponsored by our colleague from texas's 12th district, will bolster important work of the department of energy to develop innovative grid solutions and make it easier for utilities to deploy these technologies. Alongside these efforts, h.r.
▶ 0:16:029332 the load forecasting enhancement act, introduced by our colleague from ohio's 12th district, will foster important federal and state collaboration to improve accuracy of demand projections that will lead to more cost effective infrastructure build outs. It's important to address what impacts ai has on the grid, but equally important to consider how ai can be used to improve the grid. H.r. 9339.
▶ 0:16:31The affordable innovation for grid act, sponsored by our colleague from tennessee's first district, leverages the expertise of doe to study the different ways innovative computational models can improve efficiencies in our system. We will also consider h.r. 6529 the protecting families from ai data center energy costs act, and I thank our colleague from ohio's first district for agreeing to changes that respect the critical roles of states in addressing retail rates of electric service.
▶ 0:17:01Also under consideration is h.r. 9338, the pipeline safety authorization act, which reauthorizes sims's pipeline safety program for five years. This streamlined bill will enable phmsa to refocus on safety as its essential mission, while making common sense changes to ensure phmsa can regulate efficiency while maintaining and improving safety.
▶ 0:17:28This bill was a product of bipartisan work that is still ongoing, and I look forward to continuing to work with our colleagues on both sides of the aisle to find a bipartisan path forward to ensure the safe development and oversight of our pipeline infrastructure. Lastly, I'd like to thank our colleague and ranking member from florida's 14th district on our continued work to refine h.r.
▶ 0:17:4992986, the expediting, generate generator interconnection and interconnection procedures act to ensure that provisions of the bill addresses current challenges facing the interconnection process and provide discretion to regions based on their unique differences. While improvements are necessary for the bill, I can commit to working with our colleague, the ranking member to. And also to work in good faith and hopefully find that common ground.
▶ 0:18:17All together this time, the subcommittee markup takes another step to affirming american energy dominance for the benefit of all of our constituents. And with that, I yield back. And I now recognize the gentlelady from florida's 14th district, the ranking member of the subcommittee, for five minutes for an opening statement. >> well, thank you, chairman latta and colleagues. We're really looking forward to today's markup today.
▶ 0:18:40We have a lot of work to do, especially since household electric bills have risen 18% in the united states since 2025, and the war in iran has inflicted additional economic pain on our neighbors back home. Gasbuddy said yesterday that gas prices in florida alone are averaging 300 or $3.89, nearly a dollar higher than before the war started.
▶ 0:19:07So it's clear that we've got to work together to lower energy costs. And that's why it's. It's. People are pained, though, by the waste of time and money in watching the administration kill off energy projects. Um, paying companies $2.5 billion to abandon their offshore wind projects.
▶ 0:19:32Many of them were already under construction, spending 700 million of taxpayer money to prop up dying coal plants. In this affordability squeeze, it makes no sense for the president to cancel energy projects. But he's done so for 382 energy projects. Um, so it is hopeful in any event, to that this committee can begin work on real solutions.
▶ 0:19:58For example, our bipartisan proposal to protect working families from the cost of ai data center energy infrastructure, the ratepayer protection act is a step in the right direction. Uh, last week, ferc also recognized the importance of protecting ratepayers as they ordered regional grid operators that are connecting large energy users to adopt.
▶ 0:20:21They adopted a unanimous bipartisan agreement to protect consumers while delivering transparency, reliability, and innovation. However, it's important to remember that ferc's actions will not help one third of the american population who live outside of an electricity market. So we need to make sure that all of the nation's grid operating operators are playing by fair rules, not just some of them.
▶ 0:20:48Ferc also outlined a number of solutions, grid enhancing technologies, which allow us to get more out of the existing grid that we've already paid for advance load flexibility, which can limit the need for grid upgrades and reduce power bills for everybody, and smarter planning, reducing project speculation and improving grid studies. And now it's congress's turn to build on that work.
▶ 0:21:14I appreciate the inclusion of my expediting generator interconnection procedures act in today's markup, and I. I appreciate your remarks, Mr. chairman. At the outset, I hope. I know we can work together in a bipartisan way to move it forward to the full committee, and we really cannot afford to wait. We need congressional action in this committee to make the targeted policy reforms now and how we plan, permit and pay for transmission that can unlock energy growth that our country needs.
▶ 0:21:44We need to do more to measure and increase grid utilization, which could save americans up to $100 billion over the next decade. We need to help deploy virtual power plants, leveraging the innovative new technologies like smart thermostats and batteries already in communities across the country to provide grid reliability faster and at lower cost.
▶ 0:22:06We need to do more to ensure tech companies meet their promises to not only pay for energy infrastructure, but also power their data centers with cleaner, cheaper energy and battery storage. Uh, today's hearing also includes a long overdue reauthorization of our pipeline safety program.
▶ 0:22:25While the bill is still incomplete, I appreciate that my republican colleagues are working with us and hope that we can come to a bipartisan agreement that protects the american people, not just oil and gas special interests. Uh, let me be clear. The bills we're discussing today will not address all of the challenges facing the high cost of energy and the need to upgrade our grid. Uh, but they take an important step in the right direction.
▶ 0:22:52I hope we can all continue to work together to deliver clean, reliable energy that can power the 21st century economy and lower costs for all americans. Thank you, and I yield back. >> thank you very much. The gentlelady yields back the balance of her time. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from kentucky, the chairman of the full committee, for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, I appreciate you having this markup today.
▶ 0:23:17The the consideration today, the subcommittee will consider eight bills to protect electric ratepayers from unnecessary cost, increase grid capacity, and improve pipeline safety. The bills reflect a significant amount of bipartisan work. They take a practical step to address some of the most pressing energy and power issues of the day. These issues concern the cost for our power system to reliably meet growing power demand, and what is needed to protect ratepayers from unprecedented spending.
▶ 0:23:45To meet that demand, we also take up reauthorizing phmsa to ensure a safe and affordable supply of oil and gas for businesses and households. Throughout this congress, the energy subcommittee has developed a large hearing record on various forces that will affect the future of our energy system for the power sector.
▶ 0:24:06We've heard from more than 40 expert witnesses representing all expert aspects of the industry, from small utilities to major grid operators to state and federal regulators. We've examined reliability, the challenges, benefits and vital importance of data centers and what is needed to build the power generation and grid we need for the future, and to do so quickly.
▶ 0:24:28These are complex challenges that frustrate simple, or one size that frustrates simple or one size fits all solutions, especially when it comes to the various ways states and communities are responding to energy and power needs. Even at the federal regulatory level, one size fits all power sector policy may not be appropriate.
▶ 0:24:50Just this past week, rather than issue a sweeping regulatory proposal for connecting large data centers to transmission systems, ferc chose to assess different regions on their own terms, recognizing that what works in the midwest may not work in new england. Regional and state approaches matter, and we should not forget that. This is why policies that support the sharing of technical information to encourage best practices make sense.
▶ 0:25:17Whether it's the grid or pipeline pipeline safety, it also makes sense to set general frameworks that states may then adjust to meet the needs of their communities. This is what several bills do today. We're on a good track. Thanks to your work, chairman latta. And thank you to the members on both sides of the aisle and the ranking member, castor. We appreciate the willingness to work together. We're committed to doing so, and I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 0:25:45The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from new jersey, the ranking member of the full committee, for five minutes for an opening statement. >> thank you, chairman latta. Most of the bills on today's agenda are framed around trying to minimize the impact of data centers on our nation's power grid. And I think in general, these bills are a useful first step. But compared to the challenges the american power grid is facing, they are not nearly enough. Energy consumption from data centers doubled between 2017 and 2013.
▶ 0:26:19That's a six year period. And that's just the beginning. If big tech gets its way. Last week, berkeley lab put out a report claiming that data centers may be responsible for over 15% of our nation's total electricity use by 2030, just four years from now. The north atlantic electric reliability corporation put out its most severe warning last month, saying that data centers caused significant risks to the reliability of our power grid.
▶ 0:26:43And these data centers consume a lot of electricity, driving up monthly energy costs for hardworking american families across the country, electricity prices are 18% higher than they were when president trump was inaugurated, promises by the data center industry and big tech that these facilities will bring down costs have fallen flat.
▶ 0:27:01Instead, the grid operator for the mid-atlantic region estimated that ratepayers, including families in new jersey, paid over $9 billion last year for the electricity that data centers and big tech need to fuel their ai, their ai demands. And then there are the environmental impacts. We are seeing data centers running on dirty diesel generators that drive up pollution. While the trump administration runs roughshod over the clean air act, critical community protections to shield elon musk from accountability.
▶ 0:27:31There are reports of data centers being approved without any analysis of their water use. Even in water stressed communities, those living and working near data centers complain of chronic noise pollution and increased light pollution, and the epa is even trying to fast track the approval of chemicals like new pfas for use in data centers, putting the health of americans across the nation at risk. So, Mr. chairman, this simply cannot continue.
▶ 0:27:55And that's why I am in favor of a national ai data center moratorium. Until we can find a way to ensure they don't harm our nation's air, water and power bills. Towns in my district are way ahead of this congress in seeking a moratorium. Asbury park, red bank, old bridge and sayreville all have taken this bold step.
▶ 0:28:16The city of new brunswick put a stop on a data center plan after the community stood together to oppose the project, and we follow in their footsteps here in congress. Americans across the country have expressed concern and opposition to the rampant construction of ai data centers, and congress should take this political groundswell seriously with a data center moratorium. That's what we need. Even president trump has realized he has a data center popularity problem.
▶ 0:28:44But instead of trying to drive real change, trump asked big tech to sign a so-called ratepayer protection pledge with no enforcement. At a time when americans are seeing their bills skyrocket. We need action, not toothless promises from big tech. Last week's action by ferc to craft rules of the road may have some promise, but it's going to take months, if not years, to come to fruition. And americans need help now. Not in two years. Democrats have been clear.
▶ 0:29:10Families around the country should not see their power bills rise by a single cent because of data centers. Real families are suffering real harm because the pace of this build out. Unfortunately, I don't think republicans believe that. Just a few weeks ago, committee republicans initiated an investigation, insisting that china is somehow the reason that americans oppose an unlimited build out of data centers. Well, that's not the case. In fact, when I go home in new jersey, I talk to constituents who are concerned about data centers.
▶ 0:29:39These are real people with real worries, not paid chinese actors or people unwittingly tricked by the chinese communist party. It's simply not true. The committee has to take more aggressive action to ensure that data center developers are held accountable, and that consumers aren't left holding the bill. And finally, I want to address pipeline safety. I have to say more about it when we get to that in the markup, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:30:03But I do want to thank chairman guthrie and latta and their staff for working together constructively to find a bipartisan path forward. We're not quite there yet, but we have momentum, and I'm confident that we can eventually craft a product all of us can support with regard to the pipeline safety bill. And so thank you, Mr. chairman. I yield back the balance of my time. >> well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. And the chair reminds members that pursuant to committee rules, all members opening statements will be made part of the record.
▶ 0:30:32Are there any further opening statements? Hearing none. The chair calls up h.r. 9332 and asked the clerk to report. >> h.r. 9332 a bill to require the federal energy regulatory commission. >> without objection, the first reading of the bill was dispensed with and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered.
▶ 0:30:57Does any member seek to be recognized on the bill? For what purpose does the gentleman from ohio's 12th district seek recognition? Mr. chairman, gentleman is recognized to for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you for holding this markup today, including my bill, h.r. 3000 9332, the load forecasting and hackman act enhancement act, I apologize.
▶ 0:31:24I'd also like to thank my colleague from new jersey, congressman menendez, for working with me on this legislation and co-leading the bill with me. Our electric grid has entered a period of unprecedented change advanced manufacturing, increased electrification, and the surge of ai data centers have created historic increase in electricity demand. We've seen this firsthand in ohio's 12th congressional district, which has 41 data centers in operation or being built the most in the state.
▶ 0:31:54My constituents are seeing these data centers being built in their neighborhoods and are rightfully concerned about what this rapid growth means for their families and their communities. Congress must do more to help get new generation built quickly to power this growth and ensure large loads. Customers and not our constituents, are the ones paying for this upgrades and new cost.
▶ 0:32:18At the very least, we can ensure that grid operators, states, utilities and power providers are accurately planning for this growth to keep the grid reliable and protecting our constituents. This bill is a great step to ensuring states and utilities are using the best tools available to measure the load growth, so that they can appropriately plan for the new generation and transmission.
▶ 0:32:44Accurate load forecasting prevents the under-building of electric infrastructure and generation that is critical to maintaining grid reliability. And just as importantly, this bill will help prevent the overbuilding of unnecessary electric infrastructure for speculative projects that can end up hurting ratepayers.
▶ 0:33:01The load forecasting enhancement act establishes regional joint boards to bring state utility regulators and ferc commissioners together to examine, identify and report to congress the best practices that improve the accuracy, transparency and accountability of projects of new electric load. The bill amends the public utility regulatory policies act to require each state to consider incorporating the recommendations that lead to better load forecasting.
▶ 0:33:33Just this week, one of the department of energy's national national labs released a report showing data centers could double their share of U.S. power and account for 10 to 15% of our electricity use by 2030. Given this uncertainty with projected demand, utilities and states need better tools to distinguish between speculative demand projects, projections and projects that have demonstrated a genuine commitment to move forward.
▶ 0:33:59Better forecasting means better planning, and better planning means a more reliable grid and more responsive investment decisions. I urge my colleagues on the subcommittee to support this bill, and I yield back, Mr. chairman. >> well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields back the chair recognizes. For what purpose? Gentleman. Uh, from, uh, wish to be recognized. >> I move to strike the last word and speak in support of the bill. Uh.
▶ 0:34:28>> the gentleman from new jersey's eighth district is recognized for five minutes to strike the last word. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I'm glad the committee is holding today's markup to consider bills that are a vital first step toward addressing challenges to our grid, brought on by the growth of ai data centers. And I'm proud to partner with congressman balderson on h.r. 9332, the load forecasting enhancement act.
▶ 0:34:51Load forecasting is a key piece to ensuring there's enough energy supply to meet our future energy demands, and would help utilities and states with their long term planning. This bill would push state utility commissions and investor owned utilities to adopt best practices when forecasting demand, including large loads such as ai data centers, and in turn, make sure that we have an accurate idea of how much energy we'll need years down the line, accurate data and better load forecasting practices will help us make sure that the planning
▶ 0:35:21We're doing today matches the demands of tomorrow. Improving load forecasting will help prevent blackouts and brownouts, and make sure our constituents don't experience sudden and avoidable spikes to their energy bills. So while I'm happy to see the committee taking steps in the right direction, I want to acknowledge that we should be using every tool in the toolbox to protect americans from blackouts and rising energy costs, and we also need to make sure that tech companies that are developing ai data centers are held accountable for the economic, environmental, and
▶ 0:35:53Health impacts they have on our communities. One way that we can do this is by having more transparency into data centers, energy use, and the impact they have on the water we drink and the air we breathe. My bill, the data center transparency act, would shed light on these factors. So today's markup is a step in the right direction. I'm proud to work on bipartisan legislation to address these pressing needs. I encourage my colleagues to continue this work and vote in support of this bill. I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 0:36:21The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. Is there any further discussion on the bill? For what purpose does the gentleman from new york's 20th district seek recognition? >> Mr. chair, I move to strike the last word. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chair. >> bill. >> I appreciate the committee's recognition that we are experiencing significant but uncertain electricity demand growth.
▶ 0:36:45Current load forecasting methods lack transparency and can vary significantly across regions and utilities. This bill takes a good step towards addressing these challenges. Regional coordination to harmonize best methods, and a consistent framework for forecasting large, fast moving and uncertain loads is a critical step to meeting this new demand in ways that maintain affordability and reliability for all ratepayers.
▶ 0:37:12But I want to again express my view that doe can and should also play an important role. I don't think I'm alone in this view. At our budget hearing earlier this year, secretary wright agreed that doe's role in load forecasting is a major focus of this administration. Doe has tremendous analytical and modeling capabilities into more. To provide technical assistance to grid operators, to the states and utilities. Better. As a better plan for increasing energy demand.
▶ 0:37:41This includes utilities such as public power entities and rural co-ops that may be responsible for load forecasting but do not typically work with ferc. Technical assistance from doe national labs can go a long way in helping smaller co-ops and municipal utilities that may not have the capacity or capability to model load growth at the scale that larger utilities can. Mr.
▶ 0:38:04Chair, I hope you and ranking member pallone would be open to working with me as this bill moves to a full committee markup to ensure that we are explicitly recognizing the complementary capabilities of doe and authorizing doe's ability to provide technical assistance to support these load forecasting efforts. With that, Mr. chair, I yield back and thank you. >> well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. Are there any other members wishing to speak on the bill hearing none.
▶ 0:38:35Are there any amendments on the bill? Seeing none. The question now occurs on adopting h.r. 9332. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed nay, ayes have it. The bill is adopted and forwarded to the full committee. The chair calls up h.r. 9339 and asked the clerk to report. >> h.r.
▶ 0:39:049339 a bill to require the secretary of energy to conduct an assessment on the use. >> without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered. Does any member wish to be recognized on the bill? For what purpose does the gentlelady from tennessee's first district seek recognition? >> Mr. chairman, I would like to speak on the bill. >> the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:39:32Uh, my bipartisan legislation with representative mullin. The affordable innovation for the grid act would direct the department of energy, ferc, and irc to analyze how high performance computing and ai can enhance our bulk power system and assess what limitations may delay their adoption. As energy demand continues to grow at lightning pace, grid infrastructure needs to operate at peak efficiency and capacity.
▶ 0:39:58These emerging technologies have the potential to provide our grid operators with the tools to dramatically speed up the interconnection queue process, expediting timelines to bring new generation online. They can also enhance existing operations through predictive maintenance, identifying what assets need repairs now before they fail.
▶ 0:40:20Many utilities and operators have begun integrating these technologies into their operations, but many are apprehensive and would like more information. This study will provide critical analysis of this new technology that will serve both policymakers and energy stakeholders in informing them how to better adapt to the next wave of energy demand. And with that, Mr. chairman, I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I yield back. >> well, thank you very much. The gentlelady yields back.
▶ 0:40:48Are there other members wishing to be recognized on the bill? For what purpose does the gentleman from california's 15th district seek. >> move to strike? The last word, Mr. chair, and speak in support of the bill? >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I want to thank my colleague, representative harshbarger, for her leadership and for partnering with me to co-lead the affordable innovation for the grid act.
▶ 0:41:14Our nation's power demands are surging and electricity rates are rising, so we must pursue every opportunity available to expand grid capacity and maximize efficiency. This bipartisan bill does that by directing the department of energy to study how artificial intelligence and high performance computing can modernize our power system. I'm particularly interested in the potential for these advanced technologies to get new energy sources connected to the grid more quickly.
▶ 0:41:43Right now, generators face an average five year wait to achieve interconnection, and a significant portion of that delay is due to the complex engineering studies required to ensure grid reliability. But advanced tools are being developed right now that can accurately model the grid in a fraction of the time.
▶ 0:42:00In fact, a company in my district, tapestry, is doing incredible work on this exact problem by replacing computationally intensive traditional modeling with ai simulations, we can radically compress these timelines. Last march, ferc commissioner roessner noted that an interconnection study that originally took two years was replicated by an advanced computing model in just ten days.
▶ 0:42:26That kind of progress is astounding, and by passing this bill, we can begin to increase efficiency, reduce barriers to adoption, and safely speed up energy deployment. I want to again thank representative harshbarger for collaboration and leadership of this important effort, and I yield back. >> thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. Are there other members wishing to be recognized on the bill? Hearing none, are there any amendments to the bill? Hearing none. The question now occurs on adopting h.r. 9339.
▶ 0:42:56All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed? Nay. The ayes have it. The bill is adopted and forward to the full committee. The chair calls up h.r. 9335, and asked the clerk to report. >> h.r. 9335 a bill to direct the secretary of energy to establish a clearinghouse for advanced transmission technology.
▶ 0:43:25>> without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered. Does any member seek recognition on the bill? What purpose does the gentleman from texas 12th district seek recognition? >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I move to strike the last word and speak in favor of the bill. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Greg, congestion is a hidden tax on every american family and business.
▶ 0:43:54My bill, the advanced transmission technology to reduce rates act, would bring those costs down by making our elected our electric grid smarter and more efficient, without mandates, without federal overreach, and without waiting on washington. As my home state of texas continues to rapidly grow, more people and more businesses are demanding even more from the grid. And when the grid is congested, it drives up the cost of energy for utilities.
▶ 0:44:18My bill directly addresses that problem by expanding access to advanced transmission technologies, tools like advanced conductors, and dynamic line ratings that move electricity more effectively and reduce congestion on the grid. This is truly a common sense bill.
▶ 0:44:33It would create a public doe database of information on advanced transmission projects, provide voluntary technical support to utilities and state regulators, and direct doe to develop voluntary best practices to reduce wildfire risks. Also, it exempts certain doe grants and loans for these projects from nepa review, because states like texas shouldn't have to wait on extremely long bureaucratic process to modernize their grids.
▶ 0:45:03No new mandates, no top down requirements, just better tools, streamlined approvals, and the kind of state driven approach that has always worked best for texas. I encourage and urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I yield back. >> thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. For what purpose of the ranking member of the subcommittee, the gentlelady from florida seek recognition. >> move to strike the last word. >> the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:45:34While I strongly support the general thrust of representative goldman's bill promoting advanced transmission technologies, or ats, I do want to highlight my concerns with one provision. Section two c of the bill creates a carve out that exempts any department of energy funding for ats from the requirements of the national environmental policy act or nepa.
▶ 0:45:56For the last few years, congress has had a debate around the role of environmental review, including the question of how or if federal grants or financial assistance should be subject to nepa. Frankly, that question is better left to the broader permitting discussions that are underway right now, I. And I don't want it to poison us. What is going on are much, much narrower discussion here about the role of ats. There's a lot I do like in this bill.
▶ 0:46:24I think the clearinghouse that the bill establishes at doe would genuinely be very useful. The best practices for wildfire mitigation that it promotes could be a game changer, especially as climate change makes more and more of the country at risk from wildfires.
▶ 0:46:42So while today's while today, we were going to hammer out some bipartisan progress, I have to request that that we save the nepa debates for the broader permitting conversation and let this bill be only about unlocking the potential of these advanced technologies. Thanks, and I yield back. >> thank you. The gentlelady yields back. Is are is are there any other members wishing to be recognized to speak on the bill? Hearing none. Are there any amendments on the bill? Chairman.
▶ 0:47:10The gentleman from texas 12th district seek recognition. >> I have an amendment at the desk. >> the clerk will report. >> amendment to h.r. 9335 offered by Mr. goldman of texas, page six. Beginning on line one. Strike, loan or grant.
▶ 0:47:34>> without objection, the reading of the amendment is dispensed with, and the gentleman is recognized for five minutes in support of the amendment. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. I rise in support of this amendment, which clarifies the nepa exclusion for department of energy funding programs that support advanced transmission technologies. The amendment ensures that cooperative agreements are covered alongside loans and grants, so that the federal government gets out of the way unless utilities do the work to modernize their systems.
▶ 0:47:59This amendment strengthens the nepa exclusion to make sure these innovative technologies can be deployed quickly in texas and around the country, I urge my colleagues to support the amendment and yield back. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back. Is there discussion any further discussion on the amendment? Hearing none. Uh, no further discussion. The vote occurs on the amendment.
▶ 0:48:28All those in favor signify by saying I, I those opposed nay ayes have it, and the amendment is agreed to. Are there any further amendments to the bill? Hearing none, the question now occurs on adopting h.r. 9335, as amended. All those in favor signify by saying I, I. Those opposed.
▶ 0:48:54Nay, the ayes have it, and the bill, as amended, is adopted and forwarded to the full committee. The chair now calls up h.r. 9340 and ask the clerk to report. >> h.r. 9340, a bill to amend the public utility regulatory policies act of 1978 to establish a federal standard. >> without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered.
▶ 0:49:23Does anyone seek to be recognized on the bill? What purpose does the gentleman from colorado's eighth district seek recognition? >> move to strike the last word, Mr. chairman. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And I, of course, want to thank my partner, the ranking member, for her support of this bipartisan bill, h.r. 9340, the ratepayer protection act.
▶ 0:49:45This legislation is shaped by directly what I'm hearing from my constituents, families, farmers, small businesses who are concerned about the cost of living, especially as they see growth in electricity demand surge all around them. Two things can be true. Uh, the ai phenomenon that toothpaste ain't going back into the tube. The only question is, do we lead in it or do we cede ground to the chinese?
▶ 0:50:12And if you're concerned about ai, you need to be terrified about what happens if communist china is leading in this space. And so we have to have the framework in place, not just for the nation and not just for national security, but in colorado. We are a massive aero state space. And in conversations, the growing technology in space and space development requires being able to crunch a lot of data. And that ties back to data centers.
▶ 0:50:39But the second thing is also true these costs should not be borne by ratepayers. And people want to know, how are we going to pay for this? And that's what this bipartisan bill does. It. It says loud and clear that we cannot accelerate growth on the backs of americans who are working hard to pay their electric bill at the end of every month.
▶ 0:50:59And the ratepayer protection act requires each state regulatory authority to consider adopting a large load standard, one that applies to customers with 100mw or more of power demand at their peak at a single facility. So things like large data centers and hyperscalers, because these are the customers that can single handedly trigger the need for new generation, new substations, new transmission lines. And without these guardrails, those costs can get pushed up, pushed on to everyone else.
▶ 0:51:27This bill stops that. The ratepayer protection act rests on three common sense principles. First, large load customers should cover the full incremental cost of any generation, transmission or distribution upgrades needed to serve their load. And if a data center needs a new high voltage line or a new generating station to meet that load, they are responsible for those costs, not businesses or families.
▶ 0:51:54Second, contracts should include meaningful financial assurances upfront and long term to make sure that these large load demand entities have the money to be able to pay for this built out infrastructure. Communities should not be left paying for infrastructure built by a single customer who later scales back or relocates. Third, this bill has flexibility. It says the what, but it leaves the how to the states.
▶ 0:52:21It does not impose a federal mandatory standard. Instead, it provides a thoughtful requirement for states to consider it. Consider how they connect these large loads. States know their grids, their industries, and. All of these stakeholders need to engage together with their local utilities, counties and local governments to decide what approach is best for them.
▶ 0:52:46This builds upon the success of the president's ratepayer protection pledge, which is legislation. This legislation represents that public, private commitment to ensuring responsible economic growth and lower the cost for community members, expanding the electric power system and adding more paying customers that actually can improve reliability, strengthen the grid, reduce long term costs and harden infrastructure against outages and surges in demands.
▶ 0:53:12When large load customers are picking up the tab for all of those things, communities actually see the benefits from that improved infrastructure. In my community and many others across the country, people are anxious about the pace of data center development. They're not opposed to innovation. They just want assurances that their monthly bills aren't going to go up. And this bill is particularly important for states like colorado, which have not yet set a standard for how large loads like data centers should be integrated into the grid.
▶ 0:53:42Colorado has debated data center related proposals, but without a framework and a nudge, families and businesses remain at risk for higher utility bills. The bipartisan rate protection act gives states like colorado responsible policy foundation to work from, and reassures community members that they will be protected from price surges. This bill is bipartisan. It's common sense.
▶ 0:54:05It keeps energy costs low for americans, and it helps us build partnerships that build and improve the reliability and the affordability of the energy backbone that we need to compete and win in the ai area, and specifically in colorado, that we need to protect our massive aerospace economy. I urge my colleagues to support the ratepayer protection act and yield back. >> thank you very much.
▶ 0:54:29The gentleman yields back the balance of his time, and the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from florida, the ranking member of the subcommittee, for five minutes. >> well, thank you, Mr. chairman. I want to thank representative evans, too, for being my partner on this bill on the ratepayer protection act. You know, communities across the country are very nervous, including communities back home.
▶ 0:54:53In my home state of florida, they're facing very complex technical decisions about how to cite or approve data centers. They're hearing about the potential for jobs and increased tax revenue, but they're also concerned with how that's going to affect electricity rates for the folks. They represent a lot of hard working families and small business owners.
▶ 0:55:15And those neighbors also are when you've watched some of these debates, many are angry, many are anxious, others are scared. It goes into this context of higher inflation, an affordability squeeze and high cost of living. Electricity bills are already sky high, so we we have to act. That's why this is an important first step.
▶ 0:55:38This is also an opportunity for our country and for all of us, because I believe we can address the increased energy demand and help consumers lower cost by updating and modernizing america's electric grid. Most of the power grid across the united states was built in the 1960s and 1970s. It's reaching the end of its useful life.
▶ 0:56:06It's increasingly burdened by extreme events driven by the heating climate, which means that we need to make significant investments in our grid. And this is the united states of america. This is the home to innovation. And we have all sorts of new technological tools at our disposal to help address this, um, with the right guardrails.
▶ 0:56:29And that's why this is a very fundamental early guardrail to protect the folks we represent back home, to make sure they are not bearing the burden of higher electric bills and higher costs at this time. Um, we're already starting to see some of these innovations happen.
▶ 0:56:47A few examples earlier this month, google announced it would fund a 100 megawatt virtual power plant in pjm, aggregating distributed energy resources from customers across the northeast. In minnesota, google is also funding a utility distributed procurement program, which will deploy batteries at customer sites across the state. Uh.
▶ 0:57:10This frees up the grid capacity while improving community resilience and helping unlock cleaner, cheaper energy. In nevada, the public utilities commission approved a clean transition tariff, allowing large customers to pay a premium for power from emerging energy technologies like advanced geothermal. Uh. But here we are at this moment.
▶ 0:57:34At this time, the ratepayer protection act takes the first step to unlocking the opportunity for innovation but protecting consumers. It places the cost burden solely on the large load customers. Uh, so again, I want to thank representative evans, chairman guthrie, chairman latta, I hope we can do more to ensure that these large loads are also served by cleaner, cheaper energy with battery storage.
▶ 0:58:03So I'm eager to continue advancing real bipartisan solutions with the partnership of innovative companies and forward looking regulators, we can use this opportunity to build an energy system that works for everyone, not just the special interests that want to buy their way through. Our neighbors back home are counting on us, so I encourage my colleagues to support this bill and I yield back my time. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back. Are there any other members wishing to be recognized? The gentleman from.
▶ 0:58:34For which purpose does the gentleman from texas 11th district seek recognition. >> to speak in favor of this bill? >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. And then I would like to speak in favor of the ratepayer protection act. Uh, and I think Mr. evans from colorado for his leadership on it. Um, in west texas, where I represent, we're seeing tremendous interest in this subject, specifically in data center development. Um, and there's a lot of questions on this.
▶ 0:59:01We know that these facilities can bring jobs, they can bring investment, they can bring economic growth. But I think the questions are around them bringing, uh, imposing a burden of significant amounts of electricity and in some cases, new generation and transmission and distribution infrastructure that would be required to do that. The families and the farmers, ranchers and small businesses already connected to the grid should not be forced to subsidize those costs.
▶ 0:59:28If large new load requires new infrastructure, the entities creating that demand should be paying for it. This bill helps ensure that as we build the infrastructure needed to support ai and other emerging technologies, and we do so in a way that protects ratepayers and keeps electricity affordable for the people who depend on it. Every day. We want america to lead the world in artificial intelligence, and that will require building more power.
▶ 0:59:55But winning the ai race cannot come at the expense of the people already paying their electric bills every month. Innovation and economic growth should lower costs and create opportunities for americans, not shift the bill onto hard working ratepayers. I think this bill gets it exactly right. It supports growth. It protects consumers and helps ensure that existing ratepayers are not left holding the bag for new large load development. And I'll just say, I think that we as a committee, energy and commerce, Mr.
▶ 1:00:24Chairman, need to be clear eyed on the fact that the chinese communist party has every incentive to be working through the information channels, working through misinformation channels, using social media outlets, non-factual outlets, uh, to sway the public opinion. And I think that's why a bill like this can push back on that. And we can, we can do all of these things that are required.
▶ 1:00:49We can keep, um, protection for our, our communities, uh, but we can also compete against china. So I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to pass this legislation and I yield back. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back and the chair recognizes the gentleman from california's fifth district. For what purpose does the gentleman wish to seek recognition? >> Mr. chair, I move to strike the last word. >> thank you. The gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill.
▶ 1:01:20>> thank you. I want to commend chair guthrie and lada, as well as ranking members and castor for the bipartisan work that has gone into hearing today. I also want to thank Mr. evans for this bill, in particular, his work on this, and also the staff of both sides for working together to get some agreement here. I think all of us come here trying to to get things done. And I know the staff, um, has a big role in that. So I want to thank you for working in getting getting us some good products.
▶ 1:01:46At nearly every hearing this year, I have talked about the significant growth in energy demand every region in the united states is facing. And even though that growth is very exciting, it comes with real challenges. And these bills are attempting to deal with that. Americans are feeling the strain of these challenges on their wallets. Electricity prices are 8% higher today than they were a year ago. Some projections show residential utility rates climbing as much as 18% in the coming years.
▶ 1:02:13I've also been saying in nearly every hearing that this this congress, that this committee is wasting time debating old biden era policies. We're talking about cutting regulations for snowmobiles today. We're not doing that. I'm grateful. These bills are a welcome change. Um, and we are still but we are still on track to lose our competitive edge to nations like china. We don't build on today's bipartisan work.
▶ 1:02:35In the 2020s, china has completed more than 8200 miles of high voltage long range transmission lines, 8200, while the united states has built only 375. European utilities are also rapidly increasing the minimum transfer capacity between countries to move power back and forth. Over 125,000 miles of advanced conductors, which can help us get the most out of the grid, have been installed in india, europe and china.
▶ 1:03:04Us has installed less than 10% of that. The north american reliability corporation, who is responsible for reliability in these assessments, has told us that the country needs 35gw of inter-regional transfer capacity just to keep the lights on. If our north star is getting more generation on the grid, reducing rates and making the grid more resilient, we have to direct ferc to act on our inter-regional transmission planning rule.
▶ 1:03:30This rule making will show regions how we can get to those 35gw without prescribing any outcomes or forcing anyone to build anything in particular. Right now, without meaningful action on planning, we're spending over $25 billion on transmission and distribution and all time high, but 90% of that is local reliability upgrades and the replacement of old equipment.
▶ 1:03:52The spending on inefficient solutions, crowds out more efficient projects like inter-regional transmission drives up rates without meaningful new transmission capacity that would lower rates and improve reliability. These projects receive limited scrutiny. They are not transparent, and they fall in the regulatory gap between states and ferc, driving up costs for everyone. We need planning so we can evaluate lower costs, more efficient and larger scale alternatives that give consumers much more bang for their buck.
▶ 1:04:22Studies have found that for every $1 invested in larger scale interregional lines, consumers receive nearly $5 in benefits. I will support the bills we are considering today because they are bipartisan common sense, and are down a down payment on real reforms, and I look forward to working with my colleagues to strengthen these bills, add some more, and ensure we're meeting the current moment. Thank you. And I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 1:04:50The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The chair recognizes the at large member, the gentlelady from north dakota. For what purpose does the gentlelady seek recognition? >> Mr. chairman, I seek to strike the last word. >> the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Uh, first I want to thank my friends, uh, gabe evans and kathy castor for their bipartisan work on this, uh, ratepayer protection act.
▶ 1:05:15This legislation is an important step towards protecting american families from increased electricity costs, costs, and making sure we get cost allocation right. At its core, this issue comes down to a very simple principle. Those who cause costs should pay for those costs on our transmission grid and our energy systems. For decades, regulators, utilities and consumer advocates have generally agreed on this principle.
▶ 1:05:44If a customer or a class of customers creates a need for new infrastructure, the costs associated with serving that demand should be borne by those customers and those who benefited from it, not shifted on to everybody else. That principle is especially important today as we see unprecedented growth in large loads across our country. America needs more power. We want to build things again.
▶ 1:06:11We want manufacturing, innovation, artificial intelligence and economic growth. But we must pursue that growth in a way that protects families and small businesses from subsidizing infrastructure built primarily to serve others. Earlier this year, our subcommittee held a hearing on this topic. I asked every witness a simple question is it fair for american families to pay for infrastructure upgrades driven by large energy users?
▶ 1:06:42Every witness answered the same way no. I then asked whether large loads, including data centers, have demonstrated a willingness to pay for the infrastructure needed to serve their demand. Again, every witness agreed. Yes, and that's a very important point. The conversation is often framed as a choice between economic growth and affordable electricity. In reality, we can and must have both if we get the cost allocation right.
▶ 1:07:12In my home state of north dakota, we've worked carefully to structure rates for customers in large load customers, so they cover the costs they create. When done correctly, new load can actually strengthen the system, improve asset utilization, and help lower costs for existing customers rather than increase them.
▶ 1:07:34In my state, we've saved customers $30 million, but that only works when we maintain the principle that cost users pay. And this is a different take on beneficiaries pay, which has been the standard focusing on cost causes. First, more granularly assigns the costs on our system.
▶ 1:07:56Families should not be asked to subsidize infrastructure built to serve some of the largest and most sophisticated companies in the world. Likewise, businesses making major investments deserve transparency and certainty about the costs that they will bear. Getting cost allocation right, protects hardworking americans, >> supports economic development and helps build the infrastructure needed to meet growing demand.
▶ 1:08:24That is why the ratepayer protection act is such an important step forward, and I appreciate the committee's bipartisan work to advance it. It's a great step, but we also have more work to guide and direct cost allocation to protect ratepayers and promote affordability. We have more work to do, and I look forward to working with my colleagues and the committee staff in that end. Mr. chairman, thank you, and I yield back.
▶ 1:08:54>> thank you. The gentleman yields back. Are there other members wishing to be recognized in the bill? For what purpose does the gentlelady from washington's eighth district seek recognition? >> Mr. chairman. >> I move to strike the last word. >> the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Ai brings both tremendous opportunity and risk. Data center build out is a big concern for washington state. And we're hearing that same concern all across the country.
▶ 1:09:25Ai development continues to accelerate and people are worried. They're worried about what ai might mean for their jobs and for their privacy, and for their kids education and for society. And they are worried also about the tremendous energy demand of data centers and what it will mean for their utility bills, and whether they can keep the lights on. Compared to last year, we're paying nearly 15% more on our utility bills in the eighth district.
▶ 1:09:50And the experts tell me that by 2028, the northwest energy supply may not always be capable of meeting demand, and that's due to multiple things changing climate. The trump administration's cuts to investments in clean and affordable energy, sluggish building from from permitting and red tape, skyrocketing growth of data center energy use.
▶ 1:10:14And frankly, and I've talked about it in this committee before holding hostage a decommissioned coal plant. This is being done by the administration that was being converted to run on liquid natural gas. And while these companies, ai companies, tech, reap tremendous benefits from advancing ai using our data and our power.
▶ 1:10:35Hard working families who are already being hit with rising energy prices, they can't be left in the dark with unpredictable energy supply and stuck with the bill. And if big companies, uh, want the energy, they're just going to have to reach into their pockets and fund it and build it and connect it to the grid if that is what is needed. So I want to thank representative evans and representative castor for introducing this bill.
▶ 1:11:02I am proud to support the ratepayer protection act, and I yield back. >> thank you. The gentlelady yields back the balance of time. Are there other members wishing to seek recognition? For what purpose does the gentlelady from california seventh district seek recognition? >> I move to strike the last word. >> gentlelady is recognized for five minutes. Speak on the bill. >> thank you very much. I move to strike the last word and speak in support of this. Of this bill. I'm glad we're holding this markup.
▶ 1:11:30I support this legislation because it's a no brainer. American families should not be paying for tech companies utility bills. The baseline protections set in this bill are a good starting point. But to be frank, this is really the bare minimum we could and we should be doing so much more to bring down americans utility costs. We're in the middle of an energy crisis, and everyone who opens an energy bill every month knows it.
▶ 1:11:58Democrats know the electric grid needed major upgrades to meet growing demand. That's why democrats invested billions of dollars in building the next generation of clean energy infrastructure. When we were in control, and for years, we warned that failing to make those investments would drive electric electricity costs even higher. Republicans ignored those warnings. As a result, the cost of electricity has gone up 18% since Mr.
▶ 1:12:25Trump took office. Instead of lowering costs, republicans and president trump have spent the last two years moving in the wrong direction, repealing clean energy programs that save americans money, canceling hundreds of grants for critical energy infrastructure, and blocking hundreds of solar and wind projects across the country. It's ridiculous. And american families are paying for it.
▶ 1:12:52So I'm glad we're holding this markup, but let's not pretend like this is going to solve the problem. It is only a good first start. I urge my colleagues to talk to their constituents. It's time to put aside the partizan nonsense and get serious about lowering electricity costs. And with that, I yield back. Mr. chairman. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of her time. Are there other members seeking recognition on the bill?
▶ 1:13:20What purpose does the gentlelady from virginia's fourth district seek recognition? >> thank you, Mr. chair. I move to strike the last word. >> gentlelady is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you. If any of you have watched local news while you have been here during vote weeks, you have seen that data centers and their impacts on communities and on consumers. Um, has been in the news quite a bit.
▶ 1:13:46In virginia, we should be no surprise as we are the data center capital of the globe. And we have really been grappling, uh, as a commonwealth in particular, uh, with how to balance the need to meet our energy demands in an increasingly digital world where us households have, on average, 21 devices that are connected to the internet. And if you think that's crazy. My husband and I counted.
▶ 1:14:14And when you count your alexa, if your kids have a switch, phones, devices, your smart tv, your alarm systems that you can remotely monitor it, you get to 21 pretty fast. And that was before the ai revolution, uh, jump started the need for data centers, uh, and, and for the electricity.
▶ 1:14:41And I would add water that they consume and the worry of constituents that they are bearing the brunt of that cost. I during the recess period, my district is rural, urban and suburban. And everywhere I went during the district work period.
▶ 1:14:58When asked about my work on the energy and commerce committee, the first question I get is, tell us about these data centers and what you all are doing about them, and how you're going to make sure that in a time when we already can't pay, struggling to pay our electric bills and electric bills have risen, uh, as much as 13% nationwide since last year. Um, they're looking for us to strike that balance.
▶ 1:15:25And these bills are, are really a good starting point. And in virginia, our state corporation commission, our state regulatory body, approved in november the creation of a new rate class for data centers, uh, and similar big users of electricity, um, to try to begin to grapple with that.
▶ 1:15:45But whether your state begins to develop such a rate, shouldn't you know that whether you're, you are bearing the brunt of the load and paying for the load of data centers shouldn't depend on which state you're in. And that's why this bill is so important. Um, but we need to make sure they don't just consider establishing a new rate class. Um, but that they actually do it.
▶ 1:16:12And as we are working through these bills, which are incredibly important, first step, there's one stakeholder we haven't talked about yet that needs to be have a seat at the table. And that's the local governments that are under pressure to meet their own revenue needs and are being courted very heavily by these data centers.
▶ 1:16:35Some and some in my district find themselves in this position, are so desperate for the economic development that can come from a data center that they're not part of the equation on what's the load going to be, not just in this community, but for the rest of the state and for the region.
▶ 1:16:53So as we go forward with this bill, these bills, which are an incredibly important first step, let's make sure we take the next step and bring all the stakeholders to the table and ensure that whether you are in virginia or colorado or south dakota or north dakota, that you all are sure that this body is making sure you're not paying the price and bearing the burden for the ai needs of big business.
▶ 1:17:22And with that, I yield back. >> thank you. The gentlelady yields back. Are there any other members? For what purpose does the gentleman from new york's 20th district seek recognition? >> Mr. chair, I move to strike the last word. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you. I appreciate the committee for taking up this bill, including ranking member castor's leadership.
▶ 1:17:47We should be doing whatever necessary to protect residential ratepayers from undue system costs imposed by large loads, especially data centers and crypto mining facilities. A 111 d amendment is a good first step, but I do not think we should stop there. If we really want to ensure our constituents stop being burdened by rising utility bills, we should be getting at other root causes of energy affordability.
▶ 1:18:14So I do hope this is just the first step of several that we can advance to truly protect ratepayers. I would also mention that this bill defines large loads as greater than 100mw and captures more than just data centers, which may undercut manufacturers competitiveness.
▶ 1:18:31I fully acknowledge that wherever we draw the megawatt threshold for large loads, it will be somewhat arbitrary, but I believe it would be more appropriate to pick a threshold that reflects the consensus already emerging at the state and rto levels, and that number is 50mw. This would align with the definition adopted by the pjm board of managers in january. Even 50mw is a lot of power.
▶ 1:18:56It would be more than enough to power every home in my hometown many times over, but surely large enough to impose costs on residential ratepayers. And I think it is worth us having a closer examination of this definition moving forward. And we focused a lot today in the discussion on the markup of data centers and their impact. But it goes well beyond, I believe, the electric utility bill sticker shock. We're talking about water impact.
▶ 1:19:25We're talking about quality of water, water supplies that are threatened. We're talking about soil contamination. We can talk about air pollution. There are a lot of aspects to this whole effort. And, um, to, you know, miss mclellan's comments, you know, we need to look at the whole picture and all of the impacts and come together with a comprehensive plan that will best serve consumers out there and the general public per se. So with that, Mr.
▶ 1:19:54Chair, I thank you and yield back. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back. Are there any other members wishing to be recognized on the bill? Are there any amendments on the bill? Seeing none, the question now occurs on adopting h.r. 9340. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed? Nay. The ayes have it. The bill is adopted and forwarded to the full committee.
▶ 1:20:20The chair calls up h.r. 6633 and asked the clerk to report. >> h.r. 6633, a bill to establish a best available transmission conductor standard for certain transmission. >> objection. The first reading of the bill is dispensed with, and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered. Is there any member seeking recognition on the bill?
▶ 1:20:50For what purpose does the gentlelady, the at large member from north dakota, seek recognition? >> Mr. chairman, I have an amendment in the nature of substitute to h.r. 6633. >> is there a specific number on it? Does the clerk have. Okay. The clerk will report. >> amendment in the nature of a substitute to h.r. 6000 633 offered by Mrs. fedorchuk of north dakota.
▶ 1:21:17>> without objection, the reading of the amendment is dispensed with, and the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes of support of her amendment. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, ranking member and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on my legislation, the high capacity grid act, and I want to thank the committee staff for their work to include this bill in today's markup.
▶ 1:21:35This legislation addresses one of the biggest challenges facing our electric grid and one of the biggest drivers of rising electricity costs for american families, and that is transmission, electric transmission. When people think about rising utility bills, they often focus on the costs of generating electricity.
▶ 1:21:55But the reality is that transmission costs are the fastest growing component of electric bills, according to a brattle and energy information administration study, transmission costs have increased more than 180% since 2005, even as generation costs have declined. At the same time, electricity demand is growing rapidly.
▶ 1:22:20New manufacturing data centers, electrification and population growth are placing unprecedented demands on our aging grid. Yet permitting and construction constructing new transmission lines can take years, often more than a decade from concept to completion. Hopefully we'll fix that with permitting reform. But meanwhile, we cannot permit and build our way out of this challenge fast enough. Even with permitting reform, it just won't be fast enough.
▶ 1:22:49So we need to get more capacity out of the infrastructure we already have. The good news is there's a lot of ways to do that. And that's exactly what the high capacity grid act does. First, it requires utilities building new interstate transmission lines or rebuilding existing ones to use the best commercially and economically available transmission conductors whenever practicable.
▶ 1:23:15Second, it helps maximize the capacity of every transmission corridor by incentivizing advanced conductor technologies technology that can often carry significantly more electricity than traditional wires on the same structures and right of ways.
▶ 1:23:34And third, it protects families from paying for outdated technology by creating the precedent that utilities cannot pass the cost of lower performing conductors onto ratepayers unless they can clearly demonstrate that those conductors are the best option for a specific project. This is a common sense approach. Advanced conductors can dramatically increase the amount of electricity delivered over existing corridors while improving efficiency, safety and reliability.
▶ 1:24:04In many cases, they allow us to double capacity without acquiring new rights away or waiting years for new permits. That's good for reliability, it's good for affordability, and it's good for hardworking families who are ultimately paying the bill. The high capacity grid act is about modernizing our grid with today's technology, maximizing existing infrastructure and delivering more power at a lower cost.
▶ 1:24:32I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I yield back. >> thank you. The gentlelady yields back the balance of time, and the chair recognizes. For what purpose does the gentleman from california seek recognition? >> Mr. chairman, I move to strike the last word. >> the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes. Strike the last word. >> thank you. I move to strike the last word and speak in support of this amendment.
▶ 1:24:59Advanced conductors play an important role in lowering electricity bills by allowing power lines to carry more electricity. Advanced conductors can effectively increase the capacity of the grid for far less money than it takes to build a new power line or a new power plant that saves money. And ultimately, that means lower electricity bills for american families. It's one of the many small solutions that will help move the needle in the right direction.
▶ 1:25:25So I want to thank congressman fedorchuk for leading on this important bill, and I want to thank the committee staff for working with my office on this bill. I believe the legislation has moved in the right direction, and I look forward to continuing to work with congressman fedorchuk and the committee to improve this bill. And thank you, and I yield back. >> thank you. The gentleman yields back the balance of her time. Are there any other members wishing to be recognized on the amendment?
▶ 1:25:58Hearing none without further discussion, the vote occurs on the amendment. All those in favor signify by saying I, I all those opposed. Nay, the ayes have it, and the amendment is agreed to. Are there any further amendments on the bill? Hearing none, the question now occurs on adopting h.r. 6633, as amended. All those will signify by saying aye. In favor?
▶ 1:26:28Aye. Those opposed? Nay. The ayes have it. The bill, as amended, amended, is adopted and forwarded to the full committee. The chair calls up h.r. Six. Five. Two nine and ask the clerk to report. >> h.r. 6529.
▶ 1:26:51A bill to require the federal energy regulatory commission to hold a technical conference on protecting residential ratepayers from increased costs associated with large loads. >> without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered. Does any member seek recognition on the bill?
▶ 1:27:30For purposes the. The ranking member of the subcommittee. The gentlelady seek recognition. >> I have an amendment at the desk labeled a n s underscore hr6529 underscore oh one. >> the clerk will report the amendment. >> amendment in the nature of a substitute to h.r. 6529 offered by miss castro. Florida. Strike all after the enacting clause and insert the following. >> without objection, the reading of the amendment is dispensed with and the gentlelady is recognized for five.
▶ 1:27:58Amendment for five minutes in support of the amendment. >> well, thank you, Mr. chairman, and I also want to thank our colleague, representative landsman, for drafting this bill. It requires ferc to hold a technical conference on ways to protect american families and small businesses from increased costs associated with data centers, essentially pushing ferc to have its own version of the legislative hearing that we held back in april on these issues.
▶ 1:28:25While ferc took a step towards establishing rules of the road to connect data centers to the power grid, last week, all of the commissioners readily admitted that they're still seeking more information. So a technical conference would complement the orders ferc issued last week and help ensure that each commissioner has, as they have important perspectives, as they evaluate proposals from grid operators over the coming months. I want to thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:28:54Chairman and chairman guthrie, and all the professional staff are working together to find a version of this bill that could help that everyone could support. This amendment reflects those conversations and helps sharpen the bill's approach. Ensuring that ferc focuses on matters directly within its control and not under state jurisdiction. I'm grateful for the cooperation here, and I urge all of our colleagues to support both the amendment and the underlying bill. I yield back. >> well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields back.
▶ 1:29:23Are there any other members wishing to be recognized on the amendment? Hearing none, there's no further discussion. The vote will occur on the amendment. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Nay. The ayes have it, and the amendment is agreed to. Are there further amendments on the bill?
▶ 1:29:48Hearing none, the question now occurs on adopting h.r. 6529, as amended. All those in favor signify by saying aye, I. Those opposed nay. The ayes have it. The bill is adopted for. To the full committee. The chair calls up h.r. 2986 and ask the clerk to report. >> h.r.
▶ 1:30:172986, a bill to require the federal energy regulatory commission to promulgate regulations for. >> the first reading of the bill is dispensed with, and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered. Are there any members wishing to be recognized on the bill? >> an amendment at the desk. >> right. Is are there any amendments?
▶ 1:30:43>> I have an amendment at the desk labeled an s 2986 underscore zero one. >> the clerk will report the amendment. >> amendment in the nature of a substitute to h.r. 2986. Offered by miss castro of florida strike all. >> without objection. The reading of the amendment is dispensed with and the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes in support of her amendment. >> well, thank you, Mr. chairman. Colleagues, all across the united states there are new energy projects that are stalled.
▶ 1:31:10They're waiting in long lines to interconnect to the grid. This amendment would make changes to my expediting generator interconnection procedures act, which directs ferc to make common sense updates to speed up the interconnection process. This is low hanging fruit. It. It will reform the outdated and sluggish interconnection process will give grid operators more flexibility and promote the use of proven tools like automation.
▶ 1:31:38The amendment makes several key changes to the bill. First, it directs ferc to immediately initiate a show cause proceeding for each transmission provider. Similar to the show cause proceedings they initiated last week for connecting data centers to the grid. This proceeding shall find that delays beyond 15 months for generator interconnection agreement are unjust, unreasonable and unduly discriminatory.
▶ 1:32:04Within a year of the proceeding, ferc must make a final finding on the generation interconnection procedures for each transmission provider. If transmission providers fail to meet this 15 month standard, ferc shall intervene to fix those processes. Further, this bill would direct ferc and the department of energy to study the best practices for generator interconnection queue management, including lessons that can be applied to regions without an organized wholesale electricity market.
▶ 1:32:33This bill builds on the bipartisan work that ferc already is doing, including their recent efforts to accelerate large load interconnection. We should celebrate the innovation that this bill provides us. It would encourage among. We should celebrate the innovation of. This bill would encourage. Among grid operators.
▶ 1:32:54For example, we saw miso last year, uh, they instituted an automated process that was able to nearly replicate in ten days the result of an interconnection study that took nearly two years to conduct. Uh, we've discussed this and heard from witnesses in this committee, and everyone was enthusiastic about that, how they were speeding up interconnection. So we should all be able to appreciate this type of common sense progress.
▶ 1:33:22I hope my gop colleagues will continue to work with us to advance this important legislation, helping to bring more reliable energy onto the grid to power the american economy and lower costs for our neighbors back home. And I want them to know that my team and I stand ready to work in a bipartisan way to find a path forward that works for everyone on both sides of the aisle, to speed up the process of building power plants and connecting them to the grid. Thank you so much. And I yield back. >> thank you.
▶ 1:33:50The gentlelady yields back the balance of her time. The chair recognizes himself for five minutes to speak on the amendment. Again, I want to thank the the ranking member from florida's 14th district for her amendment to the expediting generator interconnection procedures act. This amendment revises the approach and the underlying bill to provide an. And an overarching policy interconnection timelines should not extend beyond 15 months.
▶ 1:34:18The bill provides discretion for how each region may address their own interconnection procedures, respecting the unique differences, and need for a bottom up approach to more effective electricity policy. Every member here recognizes the urgency behind interconnecting the right resources quickly to address our ongoing reliability crisis and affirm U.S. leadership in the next generation economy.
▶ 1:34:46Having said that, this legislation needs more process to better understand its potential impact and may need revisions as we conduct that due diligence. While we may not fully support this legislation in its current form, we're willing to continue working with the gentlelady and our democratic colleagues on it to see if we can find a bipartisan compromise. Accordingly, I urge my colleagues to support the amendment, and I yield back.
▶ 1:35:13Are there any other members seeking recognition on the amendment? Hearing none. All those in favor of the amendment signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed? Nay. Hearing. Hearing none. The amendment is agreed to. Are there any other amendments on the bill? Hearing none. The question now occurs on adopting h.r.
▶ 1:35:412986, as adopted, as amended. Excuse me. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed? Nay. The ayes have it. The bill is adopted and forwarded to the full committee. The chair calls up h.r. 9338 and asked the clerk to report. >> h.r.
▶ 1:36:089338, a bill to amend title 49, united states code to improve the safety of pipeline transportation. >> and without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with and the bill will be open for amendment at any point so ordered. Is there any member wishing to seek recognition on the bill?
▶ 1:36:42For what purpose does the vice chairman of the subcommittee seek recognition? >> uh, to speak. >> on the bill? I request to speak on that bill. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you, Mr. chairman, for yielding. I'm proud to lead h.r. 9000 338, the pipeline safety reauthorization act of 2026 to reauthorize the pipeline and hazardous materials safety administration phmsa office of pipeline safety for the next five years.
▶ 1:37:07The bill before us today reflects several updates from the discussion draft this subcommittee reviewed in march of this year. Those changes are the result of ongoing conservation conversations with my colleagues across the aisle as we work toward a strong bipartisan, bipartisan final product.
▶ 1:37:30Throughout this process, we have worked closely with stakeholders across the industry and within the government to develop and refine this legislation, and I look forward to continuing that collaboration. As h.r. 9338 advances to the full committee, this bill provides phmsa with the resources and direction necessary to continue safeguarding more than 3 million miles of pipeline infrastructure across these great united states. Excuse me.
▶ 1:38:01From ensuring that film's cost benefit analysis remains focused on safety factors within the united states to promoting best practices across state damage prevention programs, h.r. 9338 helps strengthen pipeline safety across the board.
▶ 1:38:17Americans deserve nothing less than our continued effort to move the needle closer and closer to 100% safety, and this legislation helps do exactly that.
▶ 1:38:31Our nation's pipeline infrastructure operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week to safely deliver the reliable and affordable energy that powers american homes, american businesses, and american industries while supporting our allies across the world. Now, few regions in the country can rival the pipeline infrastructure that we have along the texas gulf coast.
▶ 1:38:58Every day, those pipelines help produce, refine, process, and export the energy that powers america and again, supports our allies abroad. In my part of the country, we understand that pipeline infrastructure is often the foundation upon which every thing else is built.
▶ 1:39:20Without it, americans would pay more to heat their homes, fill their gas tanks, power their businesses, and keep every day goods on the store shelves. Texas's 14th district produces t about either district. In these united states of america, few places better illustrate the important role pipeline infrastructure plays in our lives.
▶ 1:39:48Whether the energy originates in the permian basin or from our neighbors to the north in alberta, canada, producing. It is only half of the battle. American energy dominance depends on our ability to deliver that energy safely and reliability to the people, those businesses, and those industries that depend on this every single day.
▶ 1:40:12I urge my colleagues to support this critical legislation, and I look forward to continuing the work with my colleagues across the aisle. Mr. chairman, I yield back the balance of my time. >> well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields back and the. For what purpose does the gentleman from new jersey seek recognition? >> Mr. chairman. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill. >> thank you.
▶ 1:40:37I just want to take this opportunity to comment on the status of our pipeline safety negotiations and remind everyone that a pipeline safety law is now nearly three years overdue. Back in march, the subcommittee held a hearing on a draft bill that every democrat on this committee felt missed the mark. Since then, we have been engaged in negotiations with the majority to try to find a bipartisan path forward. But I want to remind everyone what our disagreements were about.
▶ 1:41:03We were concerned that the bill didn't authorize adequate funding for the pipeline and hazardous materials safety administration, or phmsa. We were also concerned that the bill did not authorize a vital grant program funded by the bipartisan infrastructure law that has helped countless municipal utilities make their pipeline systems safer, among other issues. The bill also attempted to criminalize some protected activities under the first amendment and did nothing to strengthen penalties against pipeline operators who flout the law.
▶ 1:41:32The point on criminal penalties is especially relevant, Mr. chairman. Republicans need to know that democrats cannot in good conscience, agree to the ambiguous language that is currently in the bill granting the department of justice far too much leeway in determining what counts as interfering with the operation of a pipeline. Just in the last week, we have seen americans get arrested on the national mall for examining the reflecting pool now that the president has ruined it. And that's unacceptable.
▶ 1:42:00And we will not agree to anything that risks persecuting americans for exercising their first amendment rights. My colleague from new york has an amendment that would help on this point, and I urge members to support it, but I don't think any final product will be perfect. I understand that a few bills are. Hopefully we can get to a place where our members all feel comfortable, and then we can continue discussions with our colleagues on the transportation infrastructure committee. While examining the bill that the senate passed in april.
▶ 1:42:30Otherwise, for the second congress in a row, republicans on this committee will have failed to do the necessary work. So with that, Mr. chairman, I yield back. >> Mr. chair. >> for what purpose does the chairman of the full committee seek recognition? >> thank you. Thank you, Mr. chair. I appreciate the recognition and I appreciate the comments. >> from five minutes. >> okay. I'm sorry. Thank you, Mr.
▶ 1:42:58Chairman, for the time, and I appreciate the comments from my friend, the ranking member and my friend from new york has as an amendment. And so if somebody physically breaks or attacks or something in a protest or a pipeline, that's a criminal act. We know that. So that that's damage. It's, it's, it's, um, the second thing people can do, they can do other. So we're trying to address like they can turn the pipeline off or they can do other things in the pipeline that isn't technically damaged, but it damages the pipeline as they go forward.
▶ 1:43:26Well, we're not trying to do is interfere with people's first amendment right to protest with this. I don't want to criminalize people who are protesting and not trying to affect the operations of the pipeline. And so I know the support you I know it's obviously important to our friend from new york, and we certainly be willing to work on language to clarify that, that it needs to be physical.
▶ 1:43:51Um, damage is the right word because turning it off and affecting the pipeline isn't technically damaged. We want that to not be acceptable behavior, but we absolutely don't want to criminalize people exercising their first amendment. So we'd be willing to work on language as we move forward on this. If you would like to do that and offer that up, and I will yield back. >> thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. Is there further discussion?
▶ 1:44:18For what purpose does the gentleman from texas seventh district seek recognition? >> uh, thank you, Mr. chairman. I move to strike the last word. >> the gentlelady is recognized. Thank you. Last word, five minutes. >> thank you, chairman latta. Um, this bill is hugely important to the people that I represent in houston. I am, of course, congressman weber's neighbor. Uh, just a little bit to the west and, um, companies in houston. Um, and the people who work there, um, control more than 58% of U.S.
▶ 1:44:45Natural gas pipeline capacity and 33% of U.S. oil pipeline capacity. So I know that the people that I represent take pipeline safety incredibly seriously. And there are people who dedicate their entire careers to making sure that pipelines operate safely and that we get the energy that we need moved where it needs to be across this country and around the world.
▶ 1:45:13And, you know, the professionals who work in this industry know that pipeline safety is paramount, and the safety for our communities has to remain a priority as the demand for energy grows, which we talk about on this subcommittee all the time. And we need to be able to build the infrastructure to deliver it.
▶ 1:45:33Um, and so to that end, I think that the safety of this pipeline infrastructure really depends and has always depended on a working partnership between industry and government regulators. In this case, phmsa. And unfortunately, in the last year and a half, as we have seen across the trump administration, the president's cuts and chaotic deregulatory push have left phmsa struggling to fulfill its statutory obligations and to do the work
▶ 1:46:04That we need to do, we as citizens need it. We, the companies that are operating these pipelines, need it. But since the beginning of this administration, more than half of fmcsa's senior leadership has departed and several major rulemakings were abandoned. In response to the president's memorandum on the regulatory freeze pending review.
▶ 1:46:27I'm also hearing from folks in the energy industry, um, that phmsa just lacks the resources for proper training and isn't prepared to meet the challenges of growing demand for pipelines to meet our energy needs. And so I, I too, am happy with the progress that has been made and that's reflected in this draft. As I said, this is hugely important for the people I represent to get this over the finish line.
▶ 1:46:52I do believe there's more work to be done to make sure that phmsa has adequate resources now and in the future. Um, and I also agree with chairman pallone, um, that as important as it is, I agree with chairman guthrie to, I'm sorry, ranking member pallone, chairman guthrie, I do believe it's important to get this right.
▶ 1:47:11And I am concerned about language that would give too much discretion to the department of justice in this administration in interpreting, um, and challenging people in their right to protest. We've certainly seen they're arresting people that are looking at the reflecting pool. Um, we take very seriously, um, people's first amendment right to speak and to speak out about the things that matter in their lives.
▶ 1:47:38And so, um, I appreciate chairman guthrie, your statement about working together. And I really do think it's essential that we get this right and that we write language that protects these pipelines and allows them to operate safely at all times without the dangerous interference that can be caused, while also protecting the rights of american citizens that, frankly, are being trampled in this administration.
▶ 1:48:05So in addition to that, I just want to add, um, you know, we do need to be forward looking to ensure pipeline safety innovation meets the challenges of tomorrow. And that's why in the last phmsa reauthorization, I worked on a technology pilot program. Um, that was in the 2020 bill and that was back when I was on the dni committee. But the technology demonstration program was designed to advance the latest high tech inspection technologies and analytics that could be used to make pipelines safer.
▶ 1:48:35And I would really like to see us be able to work that into this reauthorization. It was a bipartisan program. Um, and it's included in the senate phmsa reauthorization. So I'm very hopeful that in addition to the work that we're doing to address the real concerns, um, that are laid out here that we can include that so that we can do everything we can to ensure that we can continue to operate and, and build the pipelines that we need for the things that we want across this
▶ 1:49:06Country in a way that is safe and consistent with the safety of our communities across the country. So I thank you, Mr. chairman, for that. And I yield back. >> thank you. The gentlelady yields back the balance of her time. Are there any other members wishing to speak on the bill amendment? >> Mr. >> does the gentlelady wish to speak on the bill or have. >> offer an amendment? >> okay.
▶ 1:49:35Are there any other members wishing to speak on the bill? Are there any amendments on the bill? No. I'm sorry, did you want does the gentleman from california wish to speak on the bill? I'm sorry. For what purpose does the gentlelady from california seventh district, wish? >> Mr. chairman, I move to strike the last word and speak in opposition to this bill. >> the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill.
▶ 1:50:05>> thank you very much. I want to make clear I do not support this bill in its current form. Pipeline safety is incredibly important. It's critical that we get this right. This bill, as currently written, does not meet this moment, and it does not serve the needs of my constituents. Under president trump, the pipeline and hazardous materials administration has been gutted, and enforcement of pipeline safety has plummeted, endangering public health and threatening american lives.
▶ 1:50:33In some cases, phmsa has even been turned into a political weapon. In california, president trump is using phmsa to force the restart of offshore oil drilling, trampling all over california's authority to protect our coast and our communities from disastrous oil spills.
▶ 1:50:53This bill would allow them to ignore environmental impacts and regulating pipelines, and I am really concerned that it also might allow oil and gas companies to criminally prosecute protesters. So I cannot support this bill in its current form, and I hope the committee will continue to work on this legislation to improve it before the full committee markup. And thank you, Mr. chairman. I yield back. >> well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. Are there any other members wishing to speak on the bill?
▶ 1:51:23Are there any amendments to the bill? For what purpose does the gentlelady from new york's 14th district seek recognition. >> to offer an amendment? >> gentlelady has an amendment at the desk, I assume? >> yes. Um, it's ocasny060. >> the clerk will report the amendment. >> amendment to h.r. 9338, offered by miss ocasio-cortez of new york strike section six.
▶ 1:51:54>> without objection, the reading of the amendment is dispensed with, and the gentlelady is recognized for five minutes in support of her amendment. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Um, in when it comes to pipelines across the united states. And I think the chairman of the full committee noted as well, we want to make sure that we are protecting people's first amendment right to protest.
▶ 1:52:18Under current law, the current law is that knowing and willfully damaging or destroying a pipeline carries up to 20 years in federal prison that is existing in standing law. Um, this bill and the language that this amendment seeks to strike expands that statute to cover anyone who, quote, impairs the operation of a pipeline, unquote.
▶ 1:52:44Now, the issue that we have here in the text is that impair is not defined. Um, it is a very expansive term that could easily encompass many different forms of protest and nonviolent protest and make them federal felonies. Um, many of these projects are highly controversial in the local communities in which they are often proposed to be sited.
▶ 1:53:13Protest is very common in these kinds of developments. And we want to make sure that we are, um, I think protecting people's first amendment ability. Um, while of course, um, respecting existing federal law. So, um, I hear the chairman on having that flexibility and I really appreciate the flexibility and being able to draft that.
▶ 1:53:35I want to make sure that we're being as precise as possible in what we mean by that, which is why I strike this amendment to strike section six, and I urge my colleagues, colleagues to support it as we negotiate to the full bill in committee. Thank you. >> thank you. The gentlelady yields back. For what purpose does the vice chairman from texas. >> Mr. chairman, I move to strike the last five last words. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes to speak on the amendment. >> yeah.
▶ 1:54:04I'm going to have to speak against the amendment because the lady referenced reference section six of the bill. Section six of this bill actually ensures that individuals who knowingly and willfully participate in activities like these are prosecuted under the full extent of the law. Well, what do we mean by that? They don't get to go on there and shut off all the valves and back up all the processes in a pipeline, because they want to complain. They want to go there in that land. They want to go in that area. They want to have signs.
▶ 1:54:34They want to do all those things. They have the right to do that. We don't want to limit that. Right. But they can't do things that absolutely shut down the equipment and thereby introduce damage into that facility because they're trying to move that product. They've got to do it on a schedule, and if they can't move that product on schedule, then everything will come to a screeching halt. And these people don't get the right to shut down the product.
▶ 1:54:58They can protest all they want, but there are there are penalties for absolutely shutting down the equipment and producing havoc, if you will, in that chemical plant. I yield back. >> gentleman. Yield. Yield. >> gentleman yes, I yield. >> I agree that that is exactly what we're trying to to deal with. So, uh, 20 years of, of a felon is a, is a big, big sentence. And so that's what we want to deal with. I agree that we need to take the word impair and define it better to get to what you want to deal with.
▶ 1:55:28I don't want to support the amendment, but I do want to commit that between now and full committee, we will come up with the. Taking somebody's freedom for 20 years is a big issue. We want to make sure the legislative somebody doesn't use this somewhere later, not this administration somewhere in the future. Well, they impair because they prevented somebody from going to work. They've impaired because. And so we want to make sure we get this right. So as I'm not supporting the amendment, I do support that. We need to better define the word impair. >> you said it better than I could.
▶ 1:55:58That's why you're the chairman. Why I'm the vice. >> chairman. >> I yield back. >> to the gentleman, yields back the balance of his time. Is it further discussion on the amendment? The gentleman from new jersey, the ranking member of the full committee, recognized for five minutes to speak on the bill, on the amendment. >> thank you. I would urge my colleagues to support the amendment. Um, you know, I just want you to understand that, um, there's a lack of trust with the department of justice right now.
▶ 1:56:25I mean, I, I, I don't have, I haven't spent, you know, every day at the reflecting pool, but I mean, I think it's a good example where we have every reason to believe that people that just protested at the, at the reflecting pool didn't jump into the pool, didn't try to destroy the pool, didn't try to stop the water from flowing in the pool, were arrested. And so that's the concern here.
▶ 1:56:48In other words, I understand what, uh, chairman guthrie is saying that and that in fact, if someone tries to destroy the pipeline or shut off the valve, you know, that that's considered an offense. But the fear is that if we don't have some much more precise language here, and the gentlewoman from new york talked about impair, you know, that that that that could easily be interpreted by the justice department to say, oh, you're close to the pipeline.
▶ 1:57:19And I don't like the way you look, and therefore I'm going to arrest you. So I, I do think we should support this amendment. Uh, but, you know, even if it doesn't pass, uh, let's work on this to make this clearer, because this a lack of distrust, in my opinion, on our side as to what doj might do with this language that's in the bill. So did you want me to yield to, to, uh, the mike? Oh, to to Mr. walker? Yes. Gentleman from massachusetts.
▶ 1:57:51>> thank you. I, I'm going to support the amendment. I think the language is too wide. The trust and the administration is too low. Question because I we all want to protect speech and protests. I agree with the vice chairman. You can't go in there and impair the operation. You can't turn off the valves. You can't damage the production. Question for the vice chairman. There already are laws against damage and destruction. There's already laws against trespass, as my understanding as well.
▶ 1:58:19Wouldn't someone who's going in there and and physically contacting the pipeline, wouldn't that be trespass under current law? I yield. >> in that. What what you're laying out. I would say yes. But there's also another facility. I think what we ought to do is, and I was talking about this with our some of my colleagues, people can go and protest at the schoolhouse, but they don't have the right to block the doors and prevent people from getting in kids and students from getting in.
▶ 1:58:48So there are certain possibilities here that they can be there. That doesn't mean that they have the right to turn off the valve as, as you pointed out, but they still have the right to be there in protest that this bill in no way limits that whatsoever. >> I think what I'm asking, though, is, is why is that language necessary? Because we we have trespass. We have damage. Destruction. Can't do it.
▶ 1:59:12I would also presume that like, you can't physically prevent workers from accessing the work site in a way that's harassment, harassment as well. Like what's the lacuna? What's the gap here that we're trying to cover with this new language? >> well, look, the goal of this section is clear.
▶ 1:59:30We recognize that there are still bipartisan negotiations going on to make sure we get the language right, and we ensure that there are not unintended consequences impacting people's right to protest under the first amendment. But I think the amendment is not necessarily called for. We can continue to work on this. As the chairman said, for that reason, I'm going to be, you know, uh, ask our colleagues to vote against the amendment. I yield back. >> I'll yield back to the ranking member, I think is now who has the time?
▶ 2:00:03>> has anyone would you take. I yield to the gentleman from texas. >> uh, Mr. chairman, thank you very much. I, I did want to ask chairman guthrie, um, you know, one of the areas that I think that people have concerned with in this country is lack of legislative oversight. And I believe the chairman, when he says that, um, that he would not want anyone to be arrested for, for exercising their first amendment rights.
▶ 2:00:26And I was just wondering from him if the administration did cross those boundaries, where they did arrest someone for just exercising their first amendment rights, like the judge judy lady who's in charge here now, would you would you work with with, with, with the committee be willing to say it was not our intent when we passed this legislation for people to be arrested just for exercising their first amendment rights? >> I'm sorry, I didn't.
▶ 2:00:52I, I don't want you to have to repeat all that, but I didn't quite follow what you're asking. So you're saying is that. >> I'm saying that if the administration decided that they did want to, um, arrest someone just for exercising their first amendment rights with the committee, be willing. To say that was not our intent. We we intentionally did not want someone to be arrested just for doing that.
▶ 2:01:14We don't want the judge, judy lady to think that hey, or genie, whatever, whatever her name is, to think that she can, uh, enforce that and then this committee not say anything. >> well, so, so I, I don't want anybody arrested for the, I think anybody outside the, I, I want anybody arrested for exercising their first amendment rights.
▶ 2:01:34And so what I was agreeing with my our friend from new york is that can can some future administration, this administration, any use the word impair and say well and broaden it out. And so, so to get to our friend from massachusetts so you can trespass and be arrested for trespassing. But if you turn a valve, let's say it builds pressure up and it damages somewhat later that that's what we're trying to get at, to be clear.
▶ 2:01:59And so in order to ensure that somebody doesn't, I guess any administration, I can point to some in the previous administrations that say, well, well, that really isn't enforcing the law the way we intended it for it to be. The best way to do the law is intended is to define it as best as we can. And so I'm open between now and full committee to make sure we take the word impair and define it as closely as we can to what the what we want the the justice department to do. That's our job.
▶ 2:02:25And so, yeah, I'm willing to say I don't want anybody arrested for the first amendment, but just purely violating. I don't want anybody arrested, just purely exercising and peaceful protest, but I absolutely. But we want to make sure we have this protection in place too. And so we will continue to work. It's a good that you pointed out the word impair. We look at and say, all right, maybe there that may be broad. Can some future administration. You say this one, I argue maybe a future could use that term that's broad and we want to make it more precise. And I think that's fair. Fair.
▶ 2:02:54That's a fair request from your side. >> the gentleman, the ranking member from new jersey's time has expired. Are there other members wishing to be recognized? On the amendment? Hearing none, I'm sorry. So I oh, I'm sorry. >> I know I've already been recognized. >> well, I. >> I was just wondering if we could withdraw the amendment and work together.
▶ 2:03:21That's what I and I'm commit before we come to full committee. We'll do. I can't commit to the outcome, but I can absolutely commit to an honest negotiation to try to get to the proper outcome, because I agree that the word impair could be interpreted as broad. And >> I agree the word impair could be interpreted and we want to get to the right outcome. >> yes. >> generally the new york. Or. I'm sorry. Over there. Okay. I'm sorry. May I.
▶ 2:03:54>> yield to. Yeah, I will yield. >> okay. Thank you. Sorry. I'm out of my own time. Um, I appreciate I appreciate the chairman being willing to work together on this. And, um, and in, in that spirit of refining that language and ensuring that we're protecting those folks who want to make sure that they are expressing themselves, uh, in the spirit of that negotiation. I'm happy to withdraw the amendment as we work forward to full committee. >> thank you. That's fair. And we will be committed to working together. Thank you. All right. I yield back.
▶ 2:04:24>> the gentlelady has withdrawn, Mr. chairman. I'm sorry, madame. >> strike the last words. >> for what purpose does the gentleman from texas, the vice chair, seek recognition? >> strike the last words. >> gentleman is recognized for five minutes. Strike the last word. >> thank you. Alexandra. I yield back. >> okay. Are there any further amendments on the bill?
▶ 2:04:54Hearing none, the question now occurs on adopting h.r. 9338. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed? Nay. The ayes have it, and the bill is adopted and forwarded to the full committee. Without objection. Uh, staff is authorized to make technical and conforming changes to the legislation approved by the committee today. So ordered. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.