▶ 0:16:11Subcommittee will come to order without objection. The chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. Welcome everyone today. Welcome to our hearing on Delaney Hall. I am now we are now going to pledge allegiance to the flag and we will stand for a moment. Continue to stand for a moment of silence for our fallen service members. Please rise.
▶ 0:16:36I pledge allegiance
▶ 0:16:37to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
▶ 0:16:49Remain standing. now recognize myself for an opening statement. I want to thank all the witnesses for being here.
▶ 0:17:17It's always a labor of love and I know it takes time to get here, time to be here, time to get back. So, we do appreciate all of you. We're here today because of a narrative that has been told over and over and over again for weeks. The narrative is that Delaney Hall and by extension all of these detention centers are places of cruelty. It's just not true. That the people working there are starving.
▶ 0:17:46The detainees are are hurting. They are being denied medical care and they're being abused. I want to be very direct about this story. It's false. It's not true. It's not And the people telling it know it's false. They have seen the same things that I have seen. I can tell you because I've seen them with my own eyes. I walked the facility. I met with the staff.
▶ 0:18:15Not just the routine zipping out. We were there a long time and what I saw goes against all the narratives that you hear and that that that the Democrats have tried to say about this facility. Detainees there are served three meals a day and are evaluated by certified dietitians. I'm just going to go through the list. They have access to medical, dental, and mental health care.
▶ 0:18:41And if it's something more they can deal with, they have cooperative agreements with local hospitals. They get 24-hour emergency care whenever and wherever it's needed. And you know, I'm a dentist, so I got a chance to talk to the dentist. I'm sorry, the physician. The dentist I did not get a chance to speak with. Um, just as a an aside, you know, there's this sense that, oh, they're not getting good medical care.
▶ 0:19:08he went into and he can't show me private files obviously that's you know classified information between a physician and his patient but told me about the people who had diabetes and never knew it. Told me about individuals who had never been to a doctor before in their life and finally receiving medical care. People with high blood pressure.
▶ 0:19:30people with a variety of issues and illnesses that were receiving medications and prescriptions for them for the first time ever in their life. The Department of Homeland Security has said plainly that ICE holds these facilities to higher standards than on most American prisons. And that's what I saw. And I have to tell you again, in my former life as a state senator, I was chairman of the prison gang task force.
▶ 0:20:00Went into every facility in the state of New Jersey. Every one of them, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And let me tell you, they wish that those facilities look like this facility does because this facility was far nicer. I originally went hoping it was as good as that. At least it is far better.
▶ 0:20:23When members of this very body tooured the facility, one of our Democratic colleagues, she doesn't want to say it now, but when they were in there, looked and said, and her words, it's a quote, "Gee, things aren't bad." And that's all I'll say. State health inspectors went into the kitchen and found the sanitation and physical conditions satisfactory, free of any sign of vermin. This is the state of New Jersey.
▶ 0:20:47State health inspectors, very blue state, very Democratic state, sent their health inspectors in from the governor's office and they said everything was good. That's not what they had to say about New Jersey prisons. By the way, despite all of it, weeks of false claims being made by Democrats have drawn crowds to Delaney Hall. Crowds have thrown projectiles. They had set fires. They had blocked law enforcement vehicles. They blocked an ambulance.
▶ 0:21:15Officers have been ins assaulted. More than 80 people had to be arrested. This is what false narratives produce. Not only here, but in general. Chaos outside, danger for men and women who are really doing their job. They're simply doing what has been asked of them, and they are local folks from the city of Newark. It endangers the workers of the facility, most of whom, as I said, are Newark residents.
▶ 0:21:46So when the mayor of Newark and the governor of New Jersey pulls away the police or spot sparks anger among protesters, they endanger their own citizens. Again, where there is cooperation in many ways among county, state, local, and federal officials. We have very few problems anywhere in the country. It's where that cooperation doesn't exist that we have problems.
▶ 0:22:15ICE is not supposed to be doing crowd control. They should have help. They could have help. It's wrong that they don't get the help that they Democrats, on the other hand, continue to choose the side of illegal immigrants over the American people. Only a few weeks ago, they convened a field hearing to give voice to illegal criminal immigrants in detention at Newark.
▶ 0:22:40And I would ask them, when's the last time they convened a hearing for all of the American families across this great country who were victims? The mothers, the fathers, the children who lost a loved one to a crime committed by somebody who was in this country illegally. When was the last time Democrats offered those families a hearing room? The people detained at Delaney Hall are not all random in innocents. And you know, let me say this.
▶ 0:23:10I mean, for those of us that have sat here through hearings, and you've seen children that will never be okay, and you've seen parents and families that will never be okay because their child was beaten, was raped, was There are no words for that. We just got to make sure it doesn't happen. And it's wrong.
▶ 0:23:32We knowingly and purposely, not we, but others let these individuals into our country and they shouldn't have. And they should be detained. And by the way, if it's so bad at Delaney Hall, just so you know, everybody, everybody has the option to self-deport. They will be helped if they want to self-epport. They want to leave. It's not good. They don't like the food. They don't like the housing. They don't like the recreation.
▶ 0:24:01I didn't even go into, by the way, the soccer fields. I didn't go into the gym that is better than And I, you know, I try to hit the gym every day. And I've been in a few nice gyms for many, many years. And this was up to any of them. Any of them anywhere that I've seen. So, why the false narratives? Why would anybody do this? I know it's false. I've seen it with my own eyes.
▶ 0:24:26The people who are saying the false narratives know the truth, but they keep pushing the big lie. And all it does is create chaos. It fuels hostility towards law enforcement officers. It creates crime. It creates problem. It separates the country. It divides the nation. None of it is good. It should stop. We just want to keep our community safe. We don't want more kids to die.
▶ 0:24:51We don't want more brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, families to be heard. And by the way, there's the hunger strike. Oh, the food's so bad. They're making us eat maggots. Look at the food. They've got halal for those that are Islamic food. They've got kosher food. They've got if you're have different in diseases or illnesses or health issues. They've got restricted diets. Anybody in a restricted diet, low salt diet, etc. can get what they need there. But there was the hunger strike.
▶ 0:25:22We're not eating. We're on a hunger strike. We're going to sacrifice. We're not going to eat. What did we find out? I don't know if you all know. No, they were eating. They were given money by outside forces. They were going to the commissary and they were getting their potato chips and Twinkies and you know, you name whatever else. And uh maybe it's New Jersey. So, they were getting some good New Jersey pizza. I don't know. But they were getting plenty of food.
▶ 0:25:46And in fact during that time of the supposed hunger strikes the population went down 13% in Delaney Hall but the food intake at at the commissary tripled tripled. They were eating good and they were eating a lot. So nobody's a victim here. Nobody's a sacrificing self-sacrificial person. I don't know if they were eating healthy food.
▶ 0:26:13They would have been better off eating the food they were supposed to because it was pretty damn healthy. It was a balanced diet. By the way, everybody who's got a registered dietician telling them what they should eat every day, raise your hand. They do. They do. Just so you know. I want to thank the witnesses for being here. I want to yield back. And now I want to recognize my friend, the ranking member, Miss Crockett, for an opening statement.
▶ 0:26:38Thank you so much, Mr. chairman and thank you so much to the witnesses that are here as well as other colleagues that are sitting in the audience. Um, we're back again for another edition of the Republican party's great replacement theor theory therapy session where all the white men of the House Judiciary Committee lecture Americans on the importance of mass deportations so that they preserve their so-called American values like shooting and killing American citizens
▶ 0:27:08who are peacefully protesting or stuffing hundreds of thousands of people into cages without proper nutrition or medical care. But nevertheless, in the time since our last hearing on this topic, more than 40 people have died while in ICE custody, of which 30% have died at a facility run by GEO Group, who happens to be the same private detention contractor that operates Delaney Hall.
▶ 0:27:35At multiple GEO facilities, individuals report dangerously substandard conditions, including mold, various outbreaks, including chickenpox, and insufficient food and water. Facilities operated by GEO have failed to comply with ISIS's own national detention standards.
▶ 0:27:54In fact, on numerous occasions, the government found that GEO run facilities had quote incompetent leadership and that quote problematic medical care was occurring as a result unquote. GEO has also been admonished by the courts. Yet, the chairman has not called anyone from the company to testify before this subcommittee, which is not surprising because they're pouring millions of dollars into Republican campaigns across the country.
▶ 0:28:23Let us play a game of follow the money, shall we? GEO Group has donated more than 1 million to Donald Trump's super PAC, nearly 1 million to Speaker Mike Johnson's super PAC, hundreds of thousands to John Thun's super PAC. So they spend millions to get Republicans elected around the country, and in return they get federal contracts to operate detention facilities.
▶ 0:28:48Republicans in Congress ignore the fact that people are dying in their facilities because of inhumane conditions and potentially criminal negligence. Also, since our last hearing on this topic, ICE agents have killed seven people, including the brutal murders of multiple American citizens. This is all occurring while DHS routinely violates federal law.
▶ 0:29:11In 2024, Congress passed a law that allows members of Congress to visit detention facilities without providing any prior notice. DHS has repeatedly violated this law. They have stopped members of Congress from entering detention facilities to conduct oversight visits. GEO Group and DHS have not only blocked members of Congress from entering their buildings, they have also blocked the state of New Jersey and the city of Newark from conducting their own oversight.
▶ 0:29:41The governor has called for the facility to be closed. The city of Newark has sued GEO. The New Jersey attorney general successfully sued GEO so that health inspectors must be allowed into the facility. So, a record number of people are dying in ISIS custody, mainly at facilities operated by GEO, and ICE is shooting and killing a record amount of people. Yet again, the chairman has failed to call any government official to testify before this subcommittee.
▶ 0:30:12No one from ICE, no one from CBP, no one from the DOJ, and no one from the White House. So, um Democratic members of Congress like Congresswoman Lam Monica Maccgyver have been conducting oversight themselves. In May of 2025, Re Macyver was participating in a lawful congressional oversight visit at Delaney Hall with the mayor of Newark and other members of Congress.
▶ 0:30:40During the visit, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch, who wants to become the AG, ordered the violent arrest of Newark Mayor Roz Baraka. According to body cam footage worn by the violent federal officers, they arrested the mayor, quote, per the deputy attorney general of the United States. The federal agents also said that they would arrest anyone who would quote get in their way.
▶ 0:31:08The federal agents then violently assaulted the mayor, Rep. Macyver, Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman, and Rep. Menendez. Todd Blanch is now prosecuting Rep.
▶ 0:31:22Macyver instead of DHS and GEO officials who continue to break the law while a record amount of people are dying in their facilities or being shot and killed by DHS agents on the streets in This is one of the many reasons why Todd Blanch should never become the attorney general of the United States.
▶ 0:31:43Last week during his Senate confirmation hearing, the acting attorney general said aloud what everyone here already knows, that he serves as the president's attorney and not on behalf of the American people. Blanch blocked investigations into the murders of Renee Good and Alex Prey.
▶ 0:32:03He [clears throat] gave Trump and his sons a super pardon that gives them lifelong protection from any investigation, audit, lawsuit, or prosecution by any federal agency for any violation of federal law. He created the $2 billion fund to pay January 6 insurrectionists for attacking the capital. He's protecting the pedophiles and sex traffickers in the Epstein files. He's threatening reporters with prosecution.
▶ 0:32:30He's lied numerous times to federal judges and refused to abide by federal court orders. And just like the Republicans on this committee, he's part of the DHS coverup that's using American dollars to brutalize tens of thousands of people, even killing them. And when I say people, I'm talking about citizens and otherwise.
▶ 0:32:57If the Republicans really wanted to know what was happening at Delaney Hall or any other detention facility, they would push for unannounced congressional and independent oversight. Since the Republicans claim to be Christian, they should be they should open their Bibles and read Ephesians 5 11 that states, quote, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." I yield back.
▶ 0:33:29Thank the ranking member. That was a combination of a speech and a little sermon at the end. Right. Um with that, I will ask the chairman of the full committee from the gentleman from Ohio.
▶ 0:33:40Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for this hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for being here. Um the chairman's been there. The chairman talked about the false narrative. He's been there and seen it for himself. But the reason the Democrats don't want to talk about anything other than this, some of the things brought up by the ranking members in her uh in her opening statement is because they want to take the message away from what they've done. And I've said this in many hearings. I'll continue to say it.
▶ 0:34:05[clears throat] Step one, let in 10 million illegal in the Biden administration. Have no border. Step two, create sanctuary jurisdictions which makes it difficult to remove those illegal migrants when they commit another crime. And then step three, don't pay the guys. Don't fund the guys who do the removing. They shut down the government twice. Two longest shutdowns in history because they didn't want to pay ICE agents.
▶ 0:34:32Didn't want to pay federal law enforcement to do their 18 cities, 11 states, three counties, and the District of Columbia are sanctuary jurisdictions. That represents almost a third of the country where the politicians tell local law enforcement, don't work with federal law enforcement when it comes to enforcing federal law. That is just dumb. I will continue to say that is stupid. Not letting law enforcement work together to protect communities.
▶ 0:35:02And we have had witness after witness. One of the most powerful ones I've ever seen was Jessica Gorman two weeks ago who came and talked about what happened to her daughter in Chicago, student at Lyola University out for a walk and gets attacked and killed by an illegal migrant who' committed another crime and was out on bail in that sanctuary jurisdiction. So they want to talk about anything else except what's going on. And oh, by the way, these prosecutors like Mr. Kraner, Mr.
▶ 0:35:30Desano, Alvin Bragg, all these prosecutors who thought not just those three steps, let in 10 million, create sanctuary jurisdictions, don't fund the guys who do the removing. The fourth step is we're going to treat illegal migrants who commit a crime.
▶ 0:35:46We're going to treat them better than American citizens who commit the same crime because they all have policies that say we will take into account the immigration status, deportation status of the migrant who committed a crime when we determine what kind of charges we're going to bring and what kind of plea agreement we're going to have. That is ridiculous as well. That is stupid as well and frankly I think unconstitutional. So that's why we have these hearings to highlight and underscore how ridiculous it is in now what represents almost a third of the country in these sanctuary jurisdictions.
▶ 0:36:16We have passed legislation out of this committee. I hope I hope sometime soon the bill passes the house moves to the senate and actually becomes law because a third of the country would be much better off if we got rid of this concept. And with that again I thank the chairman for his work for going there and for this hearing and we yield back. Thank the chairman and I recognize the ranking
▶ 0:36:39Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to start by recognizing uh two of our colleagues in the audience. Representative Lammon Monica Maccgyver who represents New Jersey 10 and Representative Rob Mendez New Jersey 8 who are with us today. Um we're talking about exactly what the majority wants us to talk about because they control the agenda. They've called this hearing and we've been responding to them.
▶ 0:37:04The ambiguous title of today's hearing, false narratives surrounding conditions at the Delaney Hall Ice Detention Center, naturally invites the question of whether the majority is seeking to debunk false narratives or entrench false narratives. One clue is the title does not refer to facts at all.
▶ 0:37:23Another is that the majority has neither organized a committee visit to Delaney Hall, which we easily could have done, nor even undertaken the basic step of inviting an actual administration witness from ICE or the Department of Homeland Security to be with us here today to answer questions from members of Congress. That doesn't sound much like an intensive fact-based investigation to me.
▶ 0:37:45ICE and Homeland Security have been concocting false narratives to mask the inhumane conditions at Delaney Hall and other ICE detention facilities since Steven Miller and Donald Trump launched their 2,000 arrests a day quota onslaught against American communities and immigrants.
▶ 0:38:04An entire ecosystem of lies and corruption now governs at ICE and DHS where hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars were spent by Christy Gnome on lavish private jets complete with bedrooms and wet bars and narcissistic public relations campaigns where no bid government contracts are passed out to mega donors like Mara Lago party gift bags and where obscene corruption
▶ 0:38:34is stacked on top of obscene cruelty. DHS officials routinely lie to federal judges about institutional conditions and practices. They and their lawyers have been caught over 800 times brazenly defying court orders and lying to federal judges and magistrates.
▶ 0:38:56They are routinely excoriated in court for their lawlessness in their betrayal of the legal profession, but with no apparent effect on their behavior. American citizens, like the people in this room, have been held illegally for weeks by ICE. American citizens have been beaten, bloodied, and killed simply for exercising their first amendment and their second amendment rights in a way disfavored by the masked paramilitary forces of ICE.
▶ 0:39:27The good chairman says, "Hey, if you don't like the wonderful accommodations that Delaney Hall offered uh by uh the Department of Homeland Security securities, uh you can just self-deport whenever you want." Actually, it's not true. Check out a federal district court decision handed down yesterday, Mr. Chairman, on July 21st in the United States District Court of the District of New Jersey.
▶ 0:39:53Uh, Marlon Andre Torres Gomez versus Luis Sto Warden Delaney Hall. This is a case where um a a detainee of the deluxe accommodations uh got an agreement to get out on May 12th.
▶ 0:40:10May 12th while he was in custody and an immigration judge ordered that his be allowed and then it was set for June the 10th and guess what he had a plane ticket he had an agreement with ICE he had agreement with Delaney Hall and then they blocked him from leaving the country at the airport brought him back and said he was now in the custody of ICE all over again now this district court opinion strikes that down and says it's an absolute violation of habius
▶ 0:40:40corpus in the agreement that ICE made. So even if you assume that Delaney Hall has the kind of accommodations that Gain Maxwell has uh down at the the prison camp she was uh switched to by Todd Blanch uh when he liked what she had to say about Donald Trump's involvement with the Epstein files and then suddenly she got the deluxe Trump hotel treatment including use of a therapy puppy uh
▶ 0:41:11room service in her cell and so on. Even if you assume that's going on with everybody uh at Delaney Hall, you can't get out at least maybe they'll change their tune now with this court decision. But we've heard about other cases like this. Um and you know, one of the officers suggested to me the reason why there are really bad conditions in some of these facilities is because uh Steven Miller and Donald Trump want people to leave.
▶ 0:41:35They don't want them to have uh their day before an administrative judge and they want to make it as miserable as possible for people. So they self-deport and so I'd leave it to the judgment of members of the committee whether that's the way that America should be treating people in this situation.
▶ 0:41:50Nonetheless, um Delaney Hall is a detention facility owned and operated by Geog Group, a private for-profit prison contractor that is a billion dollar government contract to operate this facility for people being held on civil immigration charges. Roughly 90% of the 891 people detained at Delaney Hall in April had no criminal record. By DHS's own accounting, 90% had no criminal record.
▶ 0:42:19Of the one in 10 detainees who did have a criminal record, the most common offenses were traffic violations. In May of this year, 300 detainees launched a hunger and labor strike. They described being treated like animals. They and their lawyers reported meals of rotten meat, expired expired meals, meals with worms in them. Senator Andy Kim, our former House colleague, who conducted unannounced oversight visits of the facility, reported seeing milk so spoiled it had curdled completely.
▶ 0:42:48Detainees say the water is foultasting and undrinkable. People were forced to sleep on floors due to overcrowding. And as billions of dollars of taxpayer money are pocketed by corporations in lavish inside contracts, detainees experience poor ventilation, extreme cold in winter, scalding showers, physical abuse by guards, and a shortage of basic necessities. The medical conditions of detainees are alarming.
▶ 0:43:14Rita Linhares, a detainee with glaucoma, anemia, high blood pressure, and circulation problems, was denied her medications because facility officials called her care cosmetic. Senator Kim met with a pregnant detainee who was not receiving appropriate OB/GYN care. Another woman received no medical attention after she'd had a miscarriage. Delaney Hall is not an isolated case.
▶ 0:43:39Across the country, the bureaucratic indifference of ICE and extravagant profiteering of its corporate partners create ghastly conditions in many cases. In a New Mexico center, a detainee experiencing unbearable dental pain that had been left untreated for months despite repeated requests to see a dentist, Mr. Chairman, pulled out his own tooth. In Texas, the converging indifference of Christine Gnome and the sadistic incompetence of RFK Jr.
▶ 0:44:09produced an epidemic outbreak of measles at Camp East Montana, ISIS's largest detention center in the state, which then contributed to the measles pandemic already uh raging in Texas. According to the Associated Press, detainees report that even the most basic care is denied there. A gauze bandage to protect an open foot wound. Prenatal care for a high-risisk pregnancy. A pillow to ease the pain of sleeping with advanced stomach cancer.
▶ 0:44:38Sanitary pads for postpartum bleeding. All of these are complaints that have been filed with the facility. Since the administration took office, more than 50 people have died in ICE custody. More have died in custody in 2025 than in any year in the last two decades. The rate of death in ICE custody is spiking because the conditions are simply worse than they've ever been before.
▶ 0:45:02ICE and DHS traffic in lawless violence, propaganda, and disinformation to mask all the corruption and cruelty which are the daily bread of the system. In Minneapolis, ICE and Border Patrol agents shot dead Renee Good and Alex Prey in broad daylight at point blank blank range and then defamed both of these innocent Americans. one a mother of three, another uh a VA nurse by labeling them domestic terrorists.
▶ 0:45:29The new regime at DHS under Secretary Uh well, the jury is still out, but we haven't seen much change yet. Just weeks ago in Texas, an ICE officer killed Lorenzo Salgado Ajo, a construction worker who lived and worked in America without any incident. No criminal convictions or charges for 35 years. Federal law enforcement tried to justify the killing by saying officers found suspicious substances in his car. The suspicious substance turned out to be salt.
▶ 0:45:59In Maine, just a week later, an ICE officer with a history of psychological issues and domestic violence. He threw his 13-year-old daughter through a glass table, fatally shot 26-year-old Johan Sebastian Guerrero, the father of a three-year-old girl whom he treated like a princess, according to her mother. At what point do we say enough is enough? The government isn't targeting the worst of the worst. It's behaving like the worst of the worst. DHS agents are arresting kindergarteners, daycare teachers, and parents dropping off children at school.
▶ 0:46:30Roving gangs of officials are abducting children from their beds in the middle of the night or using them as bait in order to catch and arrest their frantic parents. DHS is rounding up workers with lawful status working at small businesses as roofers, plumbers, landscapers, farmands, and nurses. They're arresting refugees who went through stringent vetting to come here and targeting immigrants who are following the law by showing up at their court hearings and ICE check-ins.
▶ 0:46:58At what point will we finally say enough to this? This is not America. So, uh, my friends, I'm happy to hear about what's happening in Delaney Hall. I should think we should do investigations about all of the detention centers across the country where people are complaining. But this is a a nation that's built on immigration. Except for the descendants of people who are brought here, kidnapped, abducted, and uh turned into slaves.
▶ 0:47:28Uh and except for the Native Americans, all of us are descendants of immigrants. And the vast majority of people being held in these facilities um are not criminals of any variety. And we should get back to the rule of law in America. And remember the Statue of Liberty. And remember what Tom Payne said when he got here in 1774. He said, "If this nation lives up to its values and ideals, it will become an asylum to humanity.
▶ 0:47:53Not an insane asylum, but a place of refuge for people seeking freedom from religious and intellectual and political repression from all over the world. Let's get back to the America that still lives in our hearts. I yield back to you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 0:48:08I respect the ranking member, and I mean it. I do. I don't have the opportunity to respond to all that right now because of the rules, but I want to say I thoroughly and robustly disagree with you and I think there's a lot to go through there, but I just do not believe that that is accurate from what I have seen with my own eyes and I'll still put that out there. So, anybody wants to get a certified lie detector and put me on it, put those folks that said they saw all this on it and we'll see what happens.
▶ 0:48:36With that, without objection, all their opening statements will be included in the record. We will now introduce today's witnesses. Mr. Andrew R. Arthur. Mr. Arthur is a resident fellow in law and policy at the Center for Immigration Studies. He previously served as a staffer to this committee, the oversight committee, and as an immigration judge with the Department of Justice. Mr. Art DuTuto, I said that correctly, right? I thought Mr.
▶ 0:49:06DQutoo is a border security adviser at the Federation for American Immigration Reform. He previously served for more than two decades as a border patrol agent. Always good to hear from people on the ground who really have seen and heard it. Mr. Scott Macowski. Mr. Macowski is a retired law enforcement officer who served more than 24 years with what was then called the Immigration and Naturalization Service and US Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
▶ 0:49:34When he retired, Mr. Macowski was serving as the deputy director of ICE in New York City. And Mr. I want to try to say it right. Amal Good. Mr. Cena is the executive director of the ACLU New Jersey. He previously worked at the Innocence Project and with the New York Civil Liberties Union. We will begin by swearing you all in. Please rise. Raise your right hand.
▶ 0:50:07Do you swear affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief? So help you, God. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Thank you, and please be seated. Please know that your written testimony will be entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask you summarize your testimony in five minutes. Mr. Macowski, you may begin.
▶ 0:50:37Chairman Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to appear in front of you today. For more than 24 years, I served in the federal government with Immigration and Customs Enforcement Legacy Immigration Naturalization I retired as a deputy director in New York City in 2018. I ran detention centers during that time in in ICE.
▶ 0:51:01I personally managed hunger strikes in custody medical emergencies and I also oversaw correctional facility inspections. I spent more than three decades in the US Army including the as the non-commissioned officer in charge of a theater interament facility in Camp Craropper Baghdad. I ran a detention facility in a war So when I tell you how a place like the Delaney Hall actually works, I'm not theorizing.
▶ 0:51:31I'm describing what I did for a living. The views that I offer on my own, and they are not of ICE. Let me start with what the critics have been driving this hearing will not say out loud. Detention standards are not Delaney Hall runs under enforceable national detention standards that are inspected, audited by multiple entities, and written down.
▶ 0:51:55When detain when a detainee declares a hunger strike, there's nothing left for the officer's It triggers a written protocol. Medical referrals, daily monitoring, weigh-ins, a paper trail at every step. The facts are all available to you. They're written down. Congress can conduct oversight to reveal the real truth.
▶ 0:52:20Instead of manufacturing hoaxes for partisan gain, the record will not support that the allegations that brought us here today. And I'll start with the hunger strike. DHS reported that commissary sales at Delaney Hall nearly tripled while it was supposedly underway from $11,500 the week before May 26 to more than $30,000 the week before January 1st. People who are starving themselves in protest do not triple commissary spending.
▶ 0:52:51It is not a hunger strike when the detainee refuses meals at chow time, only stuff his face with hot Cheetos and Twinkies in his dormatory at night. Taking overcrowding. When social unrest started outside the Laney Hall, the claims of overcrowding fed that false narrative and contributed to the anger. The Laney Halls built for a thousand beds. The population on that day was 766.
▶ 0:53:17On May 25th, when these claims first serviced, it fell to 521 detainees by June 15th. That's barely half full. Take the food. New Jersey State Health Inspection June 8th found the kitchen sanitary, satisfactory, no evidence of rodents or vermin. The menu accommodates religious diets. The borders are showed up unannounced and ate the same meal served to detaineees every day and stated it was fine.
▶ 0:53:47Let's take the history of the Laney Hall. This building operated as an ICE detention site from 2011 to 2017. New Jerseys leaders said nothing. The standards haven't changed. The building hasn't changed. What changed is who sits in the White House. The double standard runs deeper. Last year, 33 people died in ICE facilities nationwide. In New Jerseyy's own prisons, an average of 48 die every single year from 2018 to 2024.
▶ 0:54:17Yet, no one marched outside any one of those state prisons. And this is never about conditions at the Laney Hall. And and and it's not about the money because New Jersey has never minded the state collected taking our money. The state has collected more than $4 million fiscally in 2024 to hold criminal aliens in its own Department of Corrections and roughly $5.8 million in state criminal aliens assistance programs.
▶ 0:54:46Delaney Hall also supports 300 union jobs, which brings an estimated $50 million in in the local economy activity. And the owners of the facility pay property taxes to the city of Newark. And they're The state cashes every single check. Then it drives to the gate for the And what gets sold to the public as a peaceful protest is really nothing else.
▶ 0:55:13It's a coordinated activity meant to obstruct federal law enforcement and to to cease operations. Newark has told its own police not to respond to calls of Delaney Hall. The Americans working inside that facility are taxpayers. They live and work in Newark and Essex County and are being denied police protection for doing a lawful job. The men and women at the Laney Hall enforced the laws that this Congress wrote under the standards stricters than any American jail that hold American citizens.
▶ 0:55:42They deserve better and that to be used as props. So, let's do facts. This is a tell on how the critics operate. Senator Booker announced his visit on social media. Senator Kim came for a meeting. Congressman Robendez and Congressman Watson Coleman turned the anniversary of their own visit into a bill signing and rollout video in front of Delaney Hall.
▶ 0:56:04Congressman McGyver is currently under federal indictment on three counts, including two felonies for allegedly assaulting and impeding federal law enforcement officers.
▶ 0:56:14Mr. Mcowsky, I'm so sorry, but your time is expired. If you can just wrap it up in a sentence or two.
▶ 0:56:20Yep. Well, I want to take the moment and stop this and say when you want a moment, you bring a podium and a camera. Let's stop with the theatrics and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:56:33Thank you for your service, Mr. Mr. Deluo, you may begin.
▶ 0:56:43Chairman Vanrew, Ranking Member Crockett, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. It is a privilege to be here. My name is Art Del Quetto. I spent my career on the front lines of immigration enforcement and also served as a corrections officer in the state of Arizona. I now am a border security adviser for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. And I'm here today because what is happening at the Laney Hall is part of something much larger and far more sinister than any facility in New York.
▶ 0:57:09For four years, the Biden administration operated a deliberate anti-border policy enabling millions of illegal aliens to enter our country. Between fiscal year 2021 and 2024, CBP encountered more than 170,000 illegal aliens with crim criminal warrants or convictions at our borders. On top of that, nearly 2,000 suspected terrorists and over 1.7 million special interest aliens from from countries posing potential national risks were encountered.
▶ 0:57:36Illegal aliens who should have been detained in facilities like the Laney Hall and removed were instead released into the American communities. The consequences were devastating and could have been avoided. Sheridan Gorman, Jos Nungare, and Lake and Riley among others were killed by illegal aliens that should have been detention facilities instead of roaming the And while violent crime is the most visible consequence of illegal immigration, it is far from the only one.
▶ 0:58:03Illegal immigrants impose considerable costs on every American taxpayer, every American renter, and every American worker competing for employment in the sectors most affected by illegal alien labor. Not to mention the enormous strain on our public benefits. The Trump administration is now working to reverse that damage by strengthening and expanding detention capacity. And these efforts are working, which is exactly why these anti-order radicals are increasingly desperate. The allegations against Delany Hall simply do not hold up to the facts.
▶ 0:58:31During the period when a hunger strike was claimed to be going on, commission commissary sales at that facility surged 161%. White House borders our Tom Holman visited unannounced and ate the same food as detainees and reported they were ordering from the commissary in their cells. The facts are that ICE provides three dietitian approved meals a day on site medical care and access to family and counseling. It's not and it's not only activists spreading these lies. It's elected officials and members of Congress.
▶ 0:59:01In May 2025, New York Mayor Ras Baraka was arrested after attempting to force his way into Delaney Hall facility. Congresswoman Lmon Monica McKver was also charged following the incident. Many more have repeated their calls to abolish ICE. New Jersey Governor Mike Cheryl was forced to acknowledge that the extreme elements in these protests and that many of the so-called protesters were not even from New Jersey.
▶ 0:59:24In response to her call for demonstrators to bring the temperature down, the Democratic Socialists of America New Jersey chapter and the Climate Revolution Action Network of New Jersey responded by declaring, "We're going to turn up the noise." The goal of this movements are clear. DSA supports abolishing ICE and the end of all immigration detention. New York City mayor supports abolishing ICE. Sitting members of Congress also agree. Make no mistake, the radical anti-border crowd is increasingly setting the agenda.
▶ 0:59:54These are not reasonable critiques or policy alternatives. They are blatant attacks on the US sovereignty and immigration enforcement itself. This type of rhetoric from our elected officials not only raises the temperature, it emboldens protesters into confrontations and incites more violence. Continuing to liken ICE officers to Nazis, will continue to lead to the radical taking matters into their own hands.
▶ 1:00:15Since the beginning of President Trump's second term, DHS has documented 100 1,300% increase in assaults on ICE agents, 3,200% increase in vehicular attacks, and 8,000% increase in death threats. Why are these radical activists and politicians targeting the Laney Hall and other detention facilities? It's simple. Detention works. More illegal aliens are opting for voluntary departure and border crossings have dropped dramatically since President Trump took over office.
▶ 1:00:46Without detention, the message to every wouldbe border crosser is that there are no consequences. The smear campaign against Delaney Hall is part of a broader assault on immigration enforcement and on the men and women in uniform like those who I proudly served with in the United States Border Patrol. They are tasked with carrying out the job that Congress gave them through their immigration laws. I encourage Congress to stand with the men and women of ICE and the men and women of Border Patrol and support them in doing their jobs, not incite more violence.
▶ 1:01:16Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to your questions. Thank you for your service and we will now move to Mr.
▶ 1:01:28Chairman Van Drew, Ranking Member Crockett, Ranking Member Rascid, Mr. Johnson, thank you for inviting me here today. First, a confession. I've never been to Delaney Hall and I've never toured the facility to assess any of the allegations that have been made about it. That said, for more than eight years, including six as a staffer for this committee, I exercised oversight jurisdiction over ICE detention facilities and visited many.
▶ 1:01:54In addition, I served for an additional eight years as an immigration judge at the York County Prison in Pennsylvania, which contracted with ICE for detention space. I walked the facility. I ate in the dining hall and I worked out in the right wait room. Consequently, I am intimately familiar with how ICE detains aliens and the national detention standards under which it operates.
▶ 1:02:17As the third circuit described it last year, the elephant in the room today is the fact that state and local officials in New Jersey oppose immigration detention in the Garden State. First, the legislature enacted AB5207 to prohibit entities there from contracting with ICE to run uh detention facilities.
▶ 1:02:38The third circuit subsequently concluded that this laws applied to ICE's Elizabeth detention facility was an improper attempt to quote dictate the manner in which the federal immigration function is carried out close quote in a violation of the doctrine of intergovernmental immunity. Such efforts have continued, however, and shortly after Gio announced he would be opening Delaney Hall for ICE detention, the mayor vowed to padlock quote unquote the facility.
▶ 1:03:05And then the city sued Gio, complaining Delaney Hall didn't receive proper permits and local officials had been denied access. Gio was requested the case be dismissed because ICE wasn't added as a party, but in any event, it appears city inspectors have subsequently been allowed access. Nonetheless, in June, the state sued Gio contending health inspectors had been denied quote full access close quote to Delaney Hall when they arrived in response to conditions there.
▶ 1:03:34In response, DOJ complained about the politization of the issue while also contending ICE has quote authorized access to the facility for a reasonable and appropriate inspection pursuant to the state's written request close quote. Both cases are ongoing, but key constitutional federal doctrines, as I laid out in my uh written testimony, will govern the court's resolution of each. Most notable is what I talked about before, intergovernmental immunity.
▶ 1:04:02A principle under which state attempts to regulate the federal government directly or state actions that discriminate against the US government or those with whom it deals are invalid. While those do doctrines may invalidate state action, they cannot and should not restrict federal oversight, including and especially congressional oversight. Such oversight, as I explained at the outset, was my stock and trade for more than eight years.
▶ 1:04:29But both my bosses and I were some of whom are surrounding us today uh were always conscious of performing it in such a way so as not to impede the very functions that we were investigating. That was particularly true when it came to immigration detention.
▶ 1:04:46The security of facilities and the safety of the officers and uh detainees therein was always paramount and I was always willing to comply with reasonable restrictions imposed on me when touring the facilities and I continue to believe with due respect that is the appropriate policy. Skepticism of course is the best policy when conducting oversight and there is always a danger that what Congress is being told isn't the full truth.
▶ 1:05:12There are however numerous safeguards built into the system to ensure that problems aren't hidden and the le leg legislative branch is not deceived. By my count, five congressional committees oversee ICE detention. To say nothing of the DHS inspector general, other int internal watchd dogs, office professional responsibility, etc. The government accountability office, the media, and internal whistleblowers.
▶ 1:05:39Moreover, ISIS's detention standards are contractual and as enforceable as any contract and the agency expects performance. I understand that many oppose immigration detention. But I'll also note that the first law passed this Congress was the Lake and Riley Act, which mandated detention and empowered the states to sue to ensure it occurs.
▶ 1:06:02you can understand why ICE officers in New Jersey and elsewhere feel like they're getting whipssawed by this uh body. Finally, even if local politicians successfully forced ICE detention out of New Jersey, that doesn't mean aliens would be released. Instead, they'd be sent far away from their families and their lawyers, and that would not make their cases or their plightes any easier.
▶ 1:06:29Again, I thank you for your time and I look forward to your questions and I yield back.
▶ 1:06:36Thank you, Mr. Arthur, Mr. Cena, you may
▶ 1:06:40Chairman Vanderu, Ranking Member Crockett, uh, Committee Chair Jordan, uh, Ranking Member Raskin, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Uh, my name is Amulson. I lead the ACLU of New Jersey. Uh for over 105 years, the ACLU has fought against abuses of power uh for and for the civil rights and liberties of all Americans under both Democratic and Republican administrations alike.
▶ 1:07:04We've represented individuals and instit institutions across the ideological spectrum recently, including a supporter of President Trump's in New Jersey, the NRA, Black Lives Matter leaders, students, veterans, and many more. all with one common goal, to uphold the promises of the Constitution. I'm here today to share what people in New Jersey and across the country are facing at the hands of an agency that has acted with no accountability for far too long.
▶ 1:07:31In just the past two weeks, two fathers were shot dead by ICE agents. Lorenzo Salgado Ajo was gunned down in the streets of Houston. Johan Sebastian Duran Guerrero was killed outside his family's apartment in Maine. his three-year-old daughter nearby, still in her bluey pajamas. These killings happened in broad daylight in [clears throat] front of witnesses with cell phone cameras rolling. And this is what happens when the whole country is watching. What confidence can we possibly have behind the locked doors of a facility like Delaney Hall.
▶ 1:08:02I want to address the premise of this hearing directly. Its title suggests that reports of maltreatment at Delaney Hall are a false narrative. That claim does not survive contact with the record. The people detained at Delaney Hall have told us in their own words, and I quote, "They tell us we have no rights here. I met with an individual recently detained there." "When he arrived, the food smelled so rancid he didn't eat for 3 days. When he finally ate to avoid starving, he was in severe pain. He asked a guard for a doctor.
▶ 1:08:32The guard said that he only spoke English and couldn't help. It took seven more days for a doctor to finally see him. And by the time he was released, the pain was so severe that he ended up in the hospital for a week, requiring surgery for a serious GI condition that he developed while in detention. I wish I could tell you that his case was unusual, but I could sit here and tell you about the man denied his wheelchair for 40 days. The 18-year-old denied the ability to finish high school on time.
▶ 1:09:00The husband who lost so much weight that even lying down became physically painful. This is the pattern. the lack of access to medical care, the coercion to sign purportedly voluntary departure agreements, the unsanitary conditions and inedible food, the broken air conditioning in 100 degree temperatures. Every person I've spoken with, every letter that has come out of that facility tells some version of a similar account.
▶ 1:09:24When these individuals saw no other option, hundreds of them engaged in the hunger and labor strike for weeks to call attention to the injustices. And I think we can all agree on a simple truth. No one should have to starve themselves for the government to recognize their humanity. In turn, ICE responded with pepper spray, solitary confinement, and punitive transfers. People are dying at these facilities at an alarming rate.
▶ 1:09:53More than 50 people have died in ICE custody under this administration, the deadliest period on record. John Wilson Brutus died in ICE custody after one day of being detained at Delaney Hall. ICE is sending a chilling message to every family in New Jersey and across the country. Being an immigrant and exercising your solidarity with immigrants is unsafe.
▶ 1:10:13The Trump administration has told us repeatedly that ICE is going after the worst criminal offenders and claims that who's detained in facility uh like Delaney Hall are exactly those folks. In fact, this administration's own data undercuts that false narrative. Over 70% of the people held at Delaney Hall have no criminal history whatsoever. Nearly 90% have no criminal conviction. 84% don't have a final order of removal.
▶ 1:10:39We're spending billions of taxpayer dollars detaining people who pose no threat to the public. While Geog Group pockets over $60 million a year from Delaney Hall alone. Delaney Hall is not an outlier. This year alone, there have been at least six other hunger strikes in ICE facilities nationwide. When you pour billions of dollars into a detention infrastructure that's already riddled with abuse with no oversight, it comes at a human cost. The people who participated in the hunger strike at Delaney Hall put their bodies on the line. We must act now.
▶ 1:11:09If this sub subcommittee is truly concerned about the narrative around Delaney Hall, there's a simple fix. End the cover up by ICE and the GEO group. If you want the truth about what's happening at Delaney Hall and every facility like it, open it up to independent, unannounced, uncensored oversight. Allow the press in. Allow members of Congress in. Allow advocacy organizations in for full access. Pass the deta dignity for detained immigrants act. And conduct oversight as members of Congress are empowered to do.
▶ 1:11:39Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:11:42Thank you for your testimony. I will yield five minutes to myself. Um, it's come to my attention, you know, Martin Sodto, some of you should know that name. He's the gentleman who led the hunger strike. Some folks were making him out to be a hero, the self-sacrificial man who loved America so much and these poor immigrants and so forth. So, we have just gotten some information about him and everybody can check this out. It's all accurate. You know, he was [snorts] he's a Peruvian national.
▶ 1:12:11He was supposedly picked up while purchasing some diapers. uh according to his wife. Well, here's the real deal. The documents that we've obtained by the committee on February uh Sodto was incarcerated at Hudson County Correctional Center in Carne, New Jersey, which is just outside Newark, New Jersey. Sodto was arrested by Carney police the previous day on February 1st, 2026 for a charge of domestic violence.
▶ 1:12:40He committed assault purposely causing bodily injury speci specifically by using his hands open and close to strike his wife in the face causing scratches and cuts to her face and neck. He also placed a hand over her mouth so she couldn't scream while she was being beaten. He ain't my hero. It's not what I call a hero. It's the guy who led the hunger strike. And that's the point I want to make, man.
▶ 1:13:07I just think that folks are on the wrong some folks, my friends to the left physically and actually I guess philosophically here. I think they're on the wrong side of this. I really do. I mean there are good people and people that aren't so good. I'm getting real basic here. Bad people need to be incarcerated. We need to keep good families and good people safe. The chairman just, you know, listed a whole number of people we can go through.
▶ 1:13:35I don't want to bore you of all the families, people just like you, men and women and children that have been hurt, lives lost. Um, it's horrible. Why are we Why is it always that the other side is on their side? I don't get it. I sincerely I do not get it. I don't understand it. But for one, I'm not going to tolerate it because it's wrong.
▶ 1:14:03So, I want to just, you know, segue a little bit into something else, but it's it's all related because we all hear all this anti- uh, you know, law enforcement, no more ICE, no more law enforcement. There are some of those now on the other side of the aisle. I'm not saying these folks here, but there are people that want to abolish ICE completely, want to abolish law enforcement, abolish prisons, abolish corrections. Do you all, and I'm going to ask the three of you, and if you want to answer, you can, too.
▶ 1:14:32It's going to be very quick answers because I'm used up a lot of time already. The July 20th attack outside 26 Federal Plaza, does that re reflect an increasing threat to federal immigration facilities and the personnel who work there who I feel sorry for? In other words, these folks are at risk. They're just doing their job. They're the good guys. They're being responsible, trying to do their job, and they're at risk of violent attack in my opinion. Mr. Macowski, in a few words.
▶ 1:15:01Thank you, Chairman. Yes, 100%. Um, everybody knows that 26 Federal Plaza houses ICE and other federal agencies and just an example of what we dealt with every day in New York City.
▶ 1:15:12And we've got people in leadership that fire these people up that go over there and cause all this havoc and hurt other people in law enforcement. I mean, it's hard to be at any level of law enforcement these days. It's even hard for the I spoke to some of the state troopers and they can't say anything on the record in New Jersey. They were doing a great job and because the left didn't want them there anymore. They were doing a great job and everybody was working together. ICE was safe. They were safe. The people inside were safe.
▶ 1:15:41They were pulled away because they didn't want that one in chaos. Mr. Delu.
▶ 1:15:47Yes, sir. Absolutely. That and other attacks that have also happened at ICE facilities in the last several months are a direct result of that. the words we use, the inflammatory rhetoric. God help us, Mr. Arthur.
▶ 1:16:02thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, you know, I will refer back to the 100red-year sentence that was handed out for the mastermind of the attack at the Alvareo detention facility in Alvaro, Texas. You know, these are serious crimes. Uh they're a danger. When I served, I was uh threatened. I could talk about it in a more private setting if you'd like, but yeah, it's a real problem. It's always been a real problem and
▶ 1:16:29and it's getting worse.
▶ 1:16:30Getting worse.
▶ 1:16:31Yep. Mr. Seinh, quickly just to show I'm
▶ 1:16:34Uh, chairman, look, whenever somebody conducts a violent act, uh, they were held accountable by the criminal legal system. I don't think it has to do with the words being used. I
▶ 1:16:44I don't, forgive me, but I don't believe that. I believe politics enters into it. I don't think they're always held liable. It depends where the process takes place. And in some of these blue cities and blue localities, they're not held responsible. And they're made out to be heroes. Violence against law enforcement has become popular. And it's wrong. And I'm tired of it. I think most Americans are too. Um, and I'm over my time.
▶ 1:17:14With that, I will ranking member remind me who's Yes, Mr. Johnson.
▶ 1:17:19Mr. Johnson, the gentleman from Georgia.
▶ 1:17:21Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think Americans are getting tired of seeing each other shot down in the streets by rogue renegade uh reckless uh ICE agents. And this hearing uh is entitled false narratives surrounding conditions at the Delaney Hall ICE Detention Center. That was the topic of the discussion today. Uh what we got from uh Mr.
▶ 1:17:48Arthur is a dissertation on the uh restrictions on state regulation of uh federal functions. I'm going to read your paper uh tonight as I put myself to sleep.
▶ 1:18:01Thank you, Mr. Johnson. And um and then uh not a single witness in here has testified that uh it's false that um you know what's happening at uh Delena Delaney Hall are overcrowded cells crammed with inmates. Not a single Republican witness refuted that.
▶ 1:18:25Not a single Republican witness commented about the denial of access to toilets and clean drinking water at Delaney Nobody talked about food being adulterated and unedible at Delaney Hall.
▶ 1:18:44Not a single Republican MAGA witness testified about the denial of medical care to uh And so the only person who testified about that was Mr.
▶ 1:18:58Shhai and he told us of the horrors of what's going on uh inside Delaney Hall and and I suspect that uh the chairman when he took his visit, he announced ahead of time that he was going. And so what did they do? They rolled out the red carpet for him and showed him exactly what they wanted him to see and then probably fed him a steak dinner afterwards with a glass of champagne and a cigar.
▶ 1:19:29And so today he is here to tell you about what's going on at Delaney Hall. But I would I would uh exclaim to you that perhaps you should call my colleague Lam Monica MacGyver who is sitting here with us today about six or seven months uh pregnant.
▶ 1:19:47She and her husband expecting their second child, having to go through the trauma of a u persecution by the uh Trump um uh Justice Department, Todd Blanch justice department, but she's here. She's been on unannounced visits and she could tell you exactly uh what's happening at Delaney Hall. She could back up what Mr. Singha has has said.
▶ 1:20:16But let me ask you, uh, Mr. uh, Merchowski, um, you've never worked for a forprofit, uh, corporation that runs for-profit detention facilities, have you,
▶ 1:20:34Congressman? Thanks for the question.
▶ 1:20:35Have you? Yes or no?
▶ 1:20:37And um, and when's the last time you visited Delaney Hall?
▶ 1:20:42When Delaney Before I retired, sir. before it closed in 2017.
▶ 1:20:47Yeah, that's been what
▶ 1:20:48I don't know if you heard me.
▶ 1:20:49Almost 10 years ago.
▶ 1:20:51What about you? Uh Mr. Delto, when's the last time you visited uh Delaney Hall?
▶ 1:20:58Del Quto, sir.
▶ 1:20:59Del Quto, I'm sorry.
▶ 1:21:01I have not visited Delaney Hall.
▶ 1:21:02Never in your life.
▶ 1:21:04No, sir, but I have been at various different immigration facilities that have detained people. We have no personal knowledge upon which to reasonably conclude that the reports about cruel and inhumane and unusual or not unusual uh uh at Trump ICE facilities. You have no uh personal knowledge upon which you can reasonably conclude that what Mr.
▶ 1:21:29Singha has reported about the conditions at Delaney Hall are true or false. Isn't that correct? My personal would be from seeing other immigration detention facilities throughout my career.
▶ 1:21:40You've never been to Delaney Hall,
▶ 1:21:43I haven't, but I've been to numerous other immigration detention facilities.
▶ 1:21:46What you saw at uh your detention facilities? Were those public or private? By the way, they were both always worked for public. Uh
▶ 1:21:53No, sir. They were both private and public as well as state-run facilities.
▶ 1:21:57But you don't know what's going on at Delaney Hall. Let me ask Mr. Singha. Mr. Saha, can you tell us more about uh the 50 people who have died in ICE custody uh since Trump returned to office? And can you opine on the fact that 2026 is already the deadliest year in immigration detention since the Department of Homeland Security was
▶ 1:22:25Thank you for the question. Uh,
▶ 1:22:29I'll let you answer that question and then the gentleman's time is expired.
▶ 1:22:32Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, the uh the number of deaths is disproportionate to even the increase of uh detention in this country about the the number of people detained across the country has increased by 77%. And also uh the deaths in custody have deta have increased by 300%.
▶ 1:22:55Um, so we're talking about a radical increase in the number of people that are being uh that are killed or dying in uh while detained in in immigration detention.
▶ 1:23:07That's right.
▶ 1:23:08It's a it's a shame that we are allowing that now. GEO group's time is expired,
▶ 1:23:16but they were not called and uh nor were ICE or Customs and Border Patrol. Customs and Border Protection.
▶ 1:23:23The gentleman's time is expired. Nobody called, just uh three guys with no personal knowledge. With that, I yield
▶ 1:23:29I thank the gentleman. I definitely did not get a red carpet, a cigar, champagne, or a steak dinner. But Hank, you should probably do all that for me with all the aggravation you give me on this committee. At that, I ask the gentleman, the chairman from the great state of Ohio. Mr. Macowski, is it easier to pick up a criminal on the street or at the detention center? Congressman, thank you um for the question.
▶ 1:23:57Um it's always safer uh facility to facility.
▶ 1:24:01Yeah, it is is is but that's what sanctuary jurisdiction is all about. You got a detainer notice. Federal government, federal law enforcement knows that the migrant in the detention center, the local detention center entered the country illegally, but is has been alleged to commit some other crime, but there's a there's a detainer notice. Hold that guy. Let us come get him there instead of out on the street. Yes, Congressman.
▶ 1:24:24Yeah. And I mean, in just simple terms, I used the term earlier, but I don't know what anyone better. This is like really just Do you think it's a dumb policy? Sanctuary jurisdiction. You think it's just a dumb policy that these local jurisdictions have?
▶ 1:24:36I think it's absurd.
▶ 1:24:38Mr. Deluo,
▶ 1:24:40I believe it creates a magnet for criminal behavior in our country.
▶ 1:24:44Yeah. Mr. Arthy, what what do you think? Think it's a bad idea?
▶ 1:24:46It's a horrible idea. And when I started in immigration in the mid 90s, there were maybe a handful of uh sanctuary jurisdictions, but every cop wanted, every police department wanted to hand criminals over to the INS to get them off of the streets of the
▶ 1:25:02sanctuary jurisdictions create tension between federal, state, and local law
▶ 1:25:09Without a doubt.
▶ 1:25:10Yeah, Mr. Delquo,
▶ 1:25:12absolutely it does,
▶ 1:25:13Mr. Makowski.
▶ 1:25:14Absolutely. Just look at New Jersey. He's a great example of that.
▶ 1:25:18Yeah. And and that doesn't help. All of this doesn't help. And I think some of you already talked about the safety concerns for law enforcement, for the public, and frankly for the migrant, right? Jeopardizing the safety of everyone when you have these policies in place. You all agree with
▶ 1:25:42Yes, Congressman. And yet we have as again we did the research almost a third of the country 31 and a half percent of the country because you got 18 big blue cities 18 big or 11 big blue states you have this thing and we've actually seen it play out Denver Colorado illegal migrant who had committed another crime in the detention center. The notice gets sent to the detention center. Will you hold this migrant until we get there? They stamp on the form no we're going to release him to the streets. Release him to the streets. An ICE agent was hurt while apprehending this individual on the street.
▶ 1:26:12Again, just ridiculous. Didn't need to happen. So, I again, we're going to keep talking about this. Oh, and and the real concern, too, is that the ICE agent was hurt there, but the situations where it could have been prevented, the person is released to the streets and then they go harm in some cases kill American citizens. And frankly, if that happens in over in Fairfax County, Mr.
▶ 1:26:38Dana will take into the person's immigration status. It's right in his policy when deciding what to charge that individual with. Just adding insult to injury, adding dumbness on top of dumbness. I mean, it's just like that is crazy. Um, so this is something that just has to change in the country. We talk about having safer streets and everything else for the public. This is just it's just so so wrong. And I think it's all part of the left's plan.
▶ 1:27:06Let in 10 million as I said earlier, create sanctuary jurisdictions. Don't fund people like Mr. Macowski, ICE agents who go out there and enforce the law and then have prosecutors who do their ridiculous charging and plea bargain decisions and create this unsafe environment. That is what the left wants today and that's what they're carrying out. And again, it makes absolutely no sense.
▶ 1:27:28So, I want to thank the chairman for his good work on overseeing this and calling attention to what's going on at Delaney Center where the left has said all these terrible things are happening, but he's visited there and just hasn't seen it. And I'll yield the last minute back to the chairman of the subcommittee for any questions or comments he has. Um, I want to thank you and I think the chairman of the full committee makes a good point.
▶ 1:27:52Um, and really to focus in in plain English what people so they understand it because we have sanctuary cities, states, jurisdictions. We let people out onto the street, some of whom are violent, dangerous felons, get out. We don't cooperate with ICE.
▶ 1:28:13Therefore, ICE finds itself in the middle of dangerous situations where the illegal can get hurt, they can get hurt, or just people that are involved can get hurt. That's where the real fault is. If we did everything the right way, which you all are willing to do, we wouldn't have the issue. And quite frankly, that's why so many of the problems are in blue jurisdictions. We should have never let these people out. And I also would say Delaney Hall are not just a bunch of nice people.
▶ 1:28:44There may be some in there who aren't felons, but there are absolutely felons, drug dealers, uh, rapists, violent people that are held there. We don't want them outside. And and also by the way speaking about the conditions there, the inspector general in New Jersey inspected the facilities, the state facilities in New Jersey far worse. They have to stand while they eat.
▶ 1:29:12Crowded conditions, temperatures that go into the 90s, but nobody says anything about them because it's a blue jurisdiction. It just isn't fair. And what's good for one should be good for the other. With that, I have a few UC's uh that I want to put in for the record uh from some local media. Delaney Hall menu options. Delaney Hall's menus options better than many. Jersey school lunch choices.
▶ 1:29:37Fajitas, stir fry, barbecue chicken, see the food options provided to Delaney Hall. That was uh nj.com. This is the New York Post. Inspectors finally got into the kitchen at ISIS Delaney Hall. Here's what they found. and it details the good conditions there. It's also new Uh the final test borders are Tom Holman ate the same meal as the detainees ate and he did just fine.
▶ 1:30:05Delaney Hall snack cast doubt on what was supposed to be a real hunger strike in reports and that also I believe I'm trying to see what who that was. Fox News. Fox News. Thank you. Okay, with that being said, I think we are next. I'm going to recognize the ranking member of the full committee.
▶ 1:30:30Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman. I think you just went over 2 minutes and 25 seconds, so I appreciate a similar courtesy from my
▶ 1:30:35That means he's going to talk a lot.
▶ 1:30:38You've you've translated properly. Look, there's some things that we can all agree on here. Um, we should take violent attacks on the police extremely seriously and reject it in every circumstance. Mr. Mr. Macowski, you've spoken passionately against violent assault on the police. Um, do you think it's a good idea to pardon felons convicted of violently assaulting police officers without looking at their individual criminal record or the threat that they may still pose to society?
▶ 1:31:08I'm sorry, Congressman, can you just repeat the question? Do you think it's a good idea to pardon convicted felons who were convicted of violently assaulting police officers without consulting either their prior criminal history or the chances that they will reaffend?
▶ 1:31:25Um, sir, that that's up to the courts. I
▶ 1:31:27you have no position on that? How about you, Mr. Delqua?
▶ 1:31:30Do you think that's a good idea?
▶ 1:31:32That would be up to the court, sir. And it would be possibly a case-by case
▶ 1:31:36Okay, Mr. Arthur, what do you think about that? because it's a pardon. It's not actually up to the courts. It would be up to the uh executive in the state. Normally, I would argue against that, but I also think I know where your question's going. So, yes, I would I would oppose.
▶ 1:31:50All right, Mr. Son, what do you think about pardoning violent offenders who attack the police, brutalizing them in many cases without consulting their prior criminal history or the chances that they'll reaffend? I think there has to be a thorough review of the facts of a certain person's
▶ 1:32:08individualized review or just in
▶ 1:32:10Individualized review. Um, you know, I I agree with uh clemency as a tool and executives should use clemency frequently. Okay. But there has to be a
▶ 1:32:20that the chairman said, "Violence against law enforcement is wrong. I'm sick of it and we can't tolerate it." And I agree with that. But President Trump pardoned more than 1500 people, hundreds of whom had violently assaulted our police officers, brutalizing them, [clears throat] injuring them, giving them traumatic brain injuries, concussions, heart attacks, strokes, without looking at a single one's individualized records, just pardoning them, all of them mass. And guess what? 97 of them have already gone on to reaffend today.
▶ 1:32:49They've been convicted of so far child sexual assault, home invasion, production of child pornography, conspiracy to murder an FBI agent, kidnapping, reckless homicide, domestic violence by strangulation, stalking, drug trafficking, burglary, and a lot more. I don't have time to get into all of them. One guy, Andrew Paul Johnson, this guy was still in prison. Trump pardoned him, gave him clemency.
▶ 1:33:13He got out of prison and a few weeks later went and sexually assaulted a 12-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl and then tried to stop them from reporting him by saying he would give them some of the money that he gets from Donald Trump because he's Jixler and they're all going to get millions of dollars. So, just to give you a sense of what's going on out there. So, for those people who are categorically denouncing violence against the police, I'd like you guys to take that to heart and talk to some of the Capitol officers who are protecting us here today. You'll see them on your way out.
▶ 1:33:42Well, look, uh, Lorenzo Salgado Ajo was a 52-year-old construction worker and immigrant who' lived in Houston for 35 years. He had no criminal record, no charges, no arrests. On July 7th, he left home to pick up his brother and two co-workers to go work at a construction site of an American business. ICE agents in two unmarked cars looking for someone else saw him and without turning on any lights or without any indication of who they were began chasing his van.
▶ 1:34:12So they surrounded his vehicle and attempted to force him off the road. Moments later, an ICE agent who was not wearing a body camera fired through Mr. Salgado's passenger side window, killing the father of three. Mr. Salgato had no record. He was not subject to a detention order. He was trying to go to work. Now, Mr. Macowski, you worked for ICE. You trained officers.
▶ 1:34:36Is it ever acceptable for ICE agents to pursue a vehicle in an unmarked car without using their lights or sirens? Do you know the rules on
▶ 1:34:46sir? So, since I retired, uh policies may have changed, but the I don't believe uh the policy pursuits were uh
▶ 1:34:55Yeah, it's in the ice field manual. Oh, I've got the regulation right here. HCFR 287.8 saying that a designated purs pursue vehicle is defined only as a vehicle equipped with emergency lights and siren placed in or on the vehicle that emit audible and visual signals. They didn't have that. And now this father of three is dead. Six days later, uh Johan Sebastian Duran Guerrero, a 26-year-old father, left his home, crossed the country in Bitford, Maine to go to work to support his young family. He didn't get far.
▶ 1:35:26ICE agents driving an unmarked SUV rammed his vehicle, surrounded his car with guns drawn and shot him in the head in front of his three-year-old daughter. And again, they weren't looking for him. They were going to look for somebody else, but they saw him and then chased him down and shot him in front of his daughter. She watched as ICE agents handcuffed her father's lifeless body to the steering wheel. The agent who killed him wasn't wearing a body camera.
▶ 1:35:52What's more, he had a history of serious domestic violence and he'd been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He once threw boiling water in the face of his ex-wife, his first wife, while she was holding their child. His wife testified that he was a danger to the society and yet he was armed and deputized by ICE to go out and terrify people. Mr. Delquetto, you served as a border patrol agent for 20 years.
▶ 1:36:21Should DHS be doing a background check screen for a history of domestic violence and psychiatric illness?
▶ 1:36:28They do they do thorough background investigations if doesn't if something doesn't get reported. However, that
▶ 1:36:34wait no should my question is should they do one?
▶ 1:36:37They do one already.
▶ 1:36:38No, they did not do one in this case. It did not happen. So, uh that did not happen but it should happen. But it is typical now of ISIS hiring practices. Bring everybody in just like Donald Trump's parties. we don't care really what your background is and clothe you with the power of the federal government turning our society upside down turning Americans against each other and having our officers shoot our people like Alex Prey and Renee Good dead at point blank range
▶ 1:37:08in the streets of America. That's what this has led to. I yield back to you, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:37:13Thank the gentleman and I ask I recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I I just want to clarify one thing because there is this perception that is consistently put out there that if you are a Democrat, you are anti-law enforcement, that you are against the police. We are not anti-law enforcement. In fact, this weekend I will be speaking at a national convention for law enforcement. So, let me be clear about something.
▶ 1:37:39The most pro law enforcement thing that you could ever do is making sure that the bad apples are absolutely treated as that because bad officers make good officers look terrible. And that is why real law enforcement has no problems when Democrats decide that they actually want to crack down and recognize that even law enforcement officers can commit crimes.
▶ 1:38:02Because the last time I checked, I don't understand who should be allowed to gun somebody down in the middle of the street is not armed and seemingly just has a little bit of melanin. And when it comes to uh Alex Prey and Renee Good, that wasn't even the reasons. It was the fact that they had the audacity to stand for people that had melanin. So, excuse me, but we are not anti-law enforcement. Let's put that on the record.
▶ 1:38:28Secondly, I want to deal with something that the ranking member opened up with earlier when he talked about Gain Maxwell. The reality is that Galileain Maxwell was convicted by a jury of her peers and sentenced to 20 years in a federal prison. Yet somehow Galain Maxwell has more privileges than people who aren't accused of going out and sexually assaulting children.
▶ 1:38:50This is why we have a problem because it seems like our colleagues on the other side of the aisle continue to want to protect pedophiles while at the same time going after people most of them who have come to this country seeking a better life seeking the America that we sell to the rest of the world which is the land of opportunity and the land of the free. That is what we have sold the world on.
▶ 1:39:12Yet seemingly that's not what's happening when they arrive when they say that in their country there is something that is causing them to need to seek asylum from the harms that are taking place in their countries. Now, let me get to my official remarks before we have to go vote. It seems like those super PAC bands are making these Republicans dance.
▶ 1:39:31Isn't it interesting that thousands of white people storming the US capital and beating police officers made it home safely, but brown people posing no threat to ICE agents are suddenly killed in cold blood. The government pardoned those January 6 riers. Yet the same government is now calling the non-white people, most of whom have no criminal record, quote, terrorists and criminals. Mr. SH, why do you think this is?
▶ 1:39:56Thank you for the question, Ranking Member Crockett. Look,
▶ 1:39:58and I know you could talk forever, but just give me a little something.
▶ 1:40:01Uh, look, I I I think every uh every legal system, every crim the criminal legal system, the immigration system is rife with racial injustice. We are seeing it play out in the streets every single day. People of color are being targeted unfairly and unjustly while those with uh th those who are white and those who uh have money are are being let off the hook repeatedly. That's that's been the story of America. That's been the story throughout our nation's history. Uh, and it's a story that continues today.
▶ 1:40:29Thank you so much. To the best of your knowledge, did any of the protesters at Delaney Hall brutally ble beat police officers with steel pipes?
▶ 1:40:39Um, what about spraying police officers with bear spray?
▶ 1:40:43What about tasing officers in the neck or stomping their heads?
▶ 1:40:48Who would you rather live next to? one of the thousands of immigrants without criminal records but are being targeted by ICE or someone like David Daniel, a Trump supporter who was pardoned but was found to be in possession of child pornography and charged with sexual exploitation of a minor.
▶ 1:41:03I would rather live next to one of the thousand immigrants.
▶ 1:41:06Now, this justice department has taken the unprecedented step by criminally charging Congresswoman Macyver. Why do you think the Republicans in Congress are louder about non-violent immigrants without criminal records, but silent about the executive branch prosecuting a member of the legislative branch for conducting legitimate legislative
▶ 1:41:25Thank you for bringing up the case against Miss McCyver. Look, every single member of Congress should be outraged by what's happening to her uh regardless of party because they are going after a congresswoman for doing her job. And that's why we at the ACLU had filed an amicus brief in her in support of her uh and and calling for the charges to be dropped. Uh they are going after a sitting congresswoman for for doing her job and nothing else. Uh and and we're going to continue fighting for her.
▶ 1:41:53Thank you. My next question was about your brief, but I'll move on now because you already brought it up. We've already established uh in this hearing um and not just in this hearing, but honestly, the American people are not crazy. The American people are outraged. They're trying to pretend as if people are just going to Delaney Hall and it's simply because [music] Delaney Hall is just, I don't know, the victim in this particular set of circumstances.
▶ 1:42:21But no one today as we've gone through this hearing has decided to say the name of Jean Brutus, a 41-year-old asylum seeker from Haiti. And for those that don't know the history of what was going on in Haiti, but there was a brutal overtaking of the government in Haiti. They actually had gang members that actually went in and and brutally murdered their leader. There's a safety I know. Just give me two seconds.
▶ 1:42:49There's a safety issue that is taking place in Haiti. So here it was. He was an asylum seeker. December 12th, 2025, he ended up dying in Delaney Hall. He had only been in Delaney Hall for one day. So while some may want to pretend as if there's nothing to see.
▶ 1:43:07In fact, we should have had a hearing that would have allowed us to get to the bottom of and potentially seek justice and make sure that other people don't die in our custody um in an unwarranted and unlawful way. That is what I want to do, Mr. Chairman. And I hope that we can move forward with making sure that anyone who is taken into our immigration system that they are taken in and they are given their day in court and they get due process but their constitutional rights are not violated. Thank you and I'll yield.
▶ 1:43:37Thank the ranking member. And that concludes today's hearing. We [clears throat] thank our witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee today. And I mean that. It's a lot of work. Sit here, hear us all talk. Thank you. Appreciate you. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. And without objection, this hearing is adjourned.