▶ 0:12:39for all.
▶ 0:12:46Thank you.
▶ 0:13:07All right. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the security collapse in Haiti and the international response to it. Armed gangs led by US designated foreign terrorist organizations Vizansam and Grand Griff now control an estimated 90% of Porta Prince have displaced more than 1.4 4 million people and are working to supplant the Haitian state.
▶ 0:13:30The hearing will assess the failure of the previous multinational security support mission, the design, deployment, and funding of its successor, the gang suppression force. In addition, the Haitian police and their military have been severely weakened in part due to the legal migra migration which has allowed gangs to take control of areas like Porta Prince, a situation that has got so bad that the Haitian National Police had officers start picking up their paychecks in person
▶ 0:14:01due to so many leaving and still receiving their direct deposits. Uh so there is a security crisis there that we want to examine that's created a cost burden for the United States and our allies alike uh to the tune of billions of dollars. I would now recognize myself for an opening statement. 700 miles from the my home state of Florida terrorist organizations control the Haiti national capital. They don't influence it. They control it.
▶ 0:14:30They hold an estimated 90% of Porta Prince. They have displaced more than 1.4 4 million. They murder. They kidnap. They rape. They castrate. They feed people what they castrate. They extort the Haitian people on a massive scale. They seek to replace the Haitian state with something that answers to them. The consequences of a fully collapsed Haiti will not just stay in Haiti.
▶ 0:14:56It goes without saying that mass illegal immigration from a country explicitly governed as a safe haven for terrorists and traffickers would be harmful to America's interests and those of our allies. Here's what makes this oversight hearing different. We have already run the experiment of getting this wrong. The previous administration's answer to stabilizing stabilizing Haiti was the failed UN multinational security support mission or the MSS.
▶ 0:15:26a program to bring in foreigners from places like Kenya and Chad to take on gangs while costing the American taxpayer over a billion In total, over a million dollars per Kenyon that they sent into the country. Don't take my word for that. The State Department told this committee that the mission was quote an ineffective boondoggle.
▶ 0:15:50When the last Kenyan officers flew home this past April, Hades gangs controlled more territory than the day the mission began. That is the definition of failure. This is exactly why I advocated for not sending any contributions to the United Nations because this is the kind of boondoggles that they run. The United Nations authorized mission that replaced it. The gang suppression force is built differently and hopefully learns from the mistakes of the past.
▶ 0:16:19It is more kinetic force with a direct action mandate to unilaterally take the fight to the gangs. This is not just a police support mission. It's about eliminating terrorist gangs. On paper, its costs are shared, assessed across the United Nations member states with an American share of about 117 million a year.
▶ 0:16:41That's far better than the over billion dollars that we spent in a year I say on paper because in practice, the American taxpayer is still underwriting this mission and we will get to that. These operations began June 1. As I said, I want this mission to succeed, but wanting and hope are not strategies. So today, this committee needs three things. First, we need the mission's benchmarks for success.
▶ 0:17:07The mission's special representative owed the United Nations Security Council a strategy by July 1st. So today we need to find out are its benchmarks real or just aspirational and what happens if some of them are missed.
▶ 0:17:23Second, apart from our assessed contribution, the administration has rolled out bilateral assistance piece by piece, up to $40 million in bridge and sustainment funds, 68 million in equipment, a police recruitment surge, support for Hades armed forces, and now counterterrorism funds with no specific dollar figure attached. That money by the State Department's own accounting is going toward, among other things, buying meals ready to eat and bottled water.
▶ 0:17:52A bill that the department itself says belongs to those countries, not us. We were promised a force that learned the lessons of the MSS, but the US taxpayers, on top of the check we've already written, is still underwriting this mission's food and water. How much of this new GSF, how much will this new GSF cost American citizens? Third, we need honesty about what comes next and the significant challenges that remain.
▶ 0:18:21The UN mandate for the GSF expires on September 30th before this force even reaches full strength. The first elections in a decade are scheduled for August. But Hades insecurity makes those unlikely. And a private company paid by not by the American taxpayer, is putting the gangs on their heels with no more than 150 people.
▶ 0:18:49Vectus Global run by Eric Prince. Our own diplomats credit it with altering the momentum and the geometry of this fight again with 150 individuals. If 150 contractors can do that, a 5,500 person UN force should have zero excuses though that's all we received with the MSS mission. To our witnesses, this committee is looking for cander. Tell us what is working. Tell us what is not.
▶ 0:19:19Tell us what you need. Helping Haiti is not impossible, but the lesson of the last mission was that failure was obvious for nearly two years, yet nobody changed course. That will not happen on this committee's watch. And I would now recognize ranking member Meeks from New York for any opening statement that you may have.
▶ 0:19:38Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for calling this hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for being here. And I just want to point out uh that uh I'd love for this committee also to be if we're talking about a little penny pinching and when especially when it comes to Haiti uh let's put it into perspective.
▶ 0:19:55You know when you think about uh there was a I think the the chairman said close to a billion dollars are being spent in Haiti but we're spending more than double that$2 billion dollar each day in the president's war of choice in Iran. Still no hearings or oversight from this committee.
▶ 0:20:14This administration has spent about five times that amount on the Maduro raid and boat strikes in the Caribbean and Eastern Pacific without showing Congress if that it has prevented a single overdose death taxpayer money being spent. Over $300 million in taxpayer money has been directed toward the White House ballroom.
▶ 0:20:34Uh and I can go on whether you're talking about the reflection pool and some other things that this uh president has been utilizing the taxpayer dollars which just does not make any sense uh to the American people. So I think that if we are going to look at some of the spending issues, I would think that we should start looking at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
▶ 0:20:54Uh and and for years, you know, true Haiti has endured a convergence of violence, political instability, economic collapse, and humanitarian suffering that has no parallel in our hemisphere. Armed gangs control large parts of Hades capital. Families have been driven from their homes. Women and children face gender-based violence. Hospitals struggle to function. Schools have closed. Nearly 5.7 million Haitians, half of the country, face acute food insecurity.
▶ 0:21:22And while we may not all agree on the best approach to addressing this crisis, I believe we can all agree that the United States Haiti policy under Democratic and Republican administrations alike has fallen short. Closing the gap is not only a matter of conscious, it's a matter of national and regional security. Helping Haiti overcome this crisis is not charity. It's a strategic investment in a safer and more prosperous hemisphere.
▶ 0:21:48But in so doing, we must recognize that another US imposed solution will not work. Hades future cannot be designed in Washington, New York, or Geneva. Lasting progress must be Haitianled and accountable to the Haitian people. The United States should offer sustained support, and we must work with like-minded countries around the world, but as partners, not as architects. That brings me to the gang suppression force.
▶ 0:22:14With proper implementation, the GSF can help Haitian authorities, push back against gangs, secure critical infrastructure, and create the conditions for Haitians to begin rebuilding their country. I hope it is successful. But we must also be honest about the what the GSF cannot do. It cannot replace legitimate governance. It cannot substitute for long-term investments in institutions, economic opportunity, or public trust.
▶ 0:22:39You can capture or kill gang members, but if you do not address the broken political and economic system that creates, finances and replenishes these gangs, the cycle of violence will only continue. The GSF mission is not paired with a serious political process, humanitarian relief, and a plan to reclaim gang control territory, then then any gains will be temporary. Security without a political and economic strategy is not a solution. It's only a pause.
▶ 0:23:10A security mission in Haiti must also be accompanied by disarmament, demobilization, and reintegration programs. Haitian humanitarian assistance must flow alongside security assistance because Haitians need food, medicine, and shelter. That means that the Trump administration must bring forward a comprehensive strategy equal to the scale of the crisis. The administration should start by reversing its own damaging policies. The gutting of US foreign aid has hit Haiti particularly hard.
▶ 0:23:39And even if the administration warns Americans against even as the administration warns Americans against traveling to Haiti, it claims the island is safe enough to end temporary protective status and deport some 350,000 Haitians. This is not just cruel, it's contradictory, and it will only exacerbate instability in Haiti. Next, the administration must identify and hold accountable those members of Hades political and economic elite who are supporting the gangs.
▶ 0:24:06It has failed to do so adequately despite a congressional mandate in by which the Congress uh the bipartisan Haiti criminal collusion uh transparency act which became law last year. Congress must do more as well. I introduced the Sock Pay uh in Haiti act with Representative Murphy of North Carolina that would require the State Department to develop a comprehensive strategy to counter instability in Haiti. Congress should pass that today.
▶ 0:24:33Lastly, and unless Congress reauthorizes hope help for an extended period, jobs that are lifeline for Haitians fleeing gang violence will evaporate. So, support for Haiti has long been bipartisan, backing in Congress. Because the American people understand the suffering that Haitian people have endured and want to help after the 2010 earthquake killed more than 300,000 people, Americans across the country mobilized because that is who we are. The United States has a responsibility to lead.
▶ 0:25:03We must do so in a way that avoids repeating the mistakes of the past, centers Haitian voices, delivers the partnership this moment demand demands. So, I look forward to our discussion today and hearing how this administration intends to be the partner that this moment calls for. Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 0:25:20Thank you, Ranking Member Meek. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We're pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this important topic. The Honorable Michael Kak, senior bureau official for the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs at the US Department of State, and Colonel Justin Gowski, co-lead of the Haiti Gang Suppression Force Tiger Team at the US Department of War. This committee recognized the importance of the issues before us and is grateful to have you here to speak with us today.
▶ 0:25:48Your full statements will be made a part of the record and I'll ask each of you try to keep your spoken remarks to about five minutes in order to allow time for member questions. and uh Ambassador Kak, I recognize you for any opening statement that you may have.
▶ 0:26:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Chairman Mass, Ranking Member Meeks, distinguished members of the committee. The US overarching objective in Haiti is baseline stability. A network of armed groups threaten to take over the Haitian state while destabilizing the region. We estimate the gangs have approximately 3,000 well-armed fighters. The former MSS mission supported only 1,000 police with no clear mandate.
▶ 0:26:32They cost over half a million dollars per person per year. Last September, the United States and Panama led the UN Security Council's adoption of resolution 2793. With this new mandate, the United States as chair and five other regional countries make up the standing group of partners, and they've recruited qualified participating states to deploy as a gang suppression force.
▶ 0:26:58UN logistics will support the GSF, a burden previously incurred almost entirely by US taxpayers. This UN mandate authorized the deployment of up to 5,500 uniform military and police personnel to conduct intelligence-led targeted operations to neutralize, isolate, and deter the gangs, to secure critical infrastructure, and to enhance the operational capacity of the Haitian security forces through joint planning and operations.
▶ 0:27:27We are getting more than five times the forces while the overall enterprise will cost the US approximately 1/5if of what we were spending with the MSS. So five times more bang for 1/5if of the bucks. The civilian staff component led by GFS special representative Jack Christophites provides on the ground support, oversight and accountability for the force.
▶ 0:27:53The Organization of American States is involved as a key regional stakeholder body and I'm pleased to announce that at the uh OAS general assembly just last month the OAS unanimously called for renewal of the uh of the mandate by the UN security council very important in dealing with threats of veto by Russia and China. That was a decisive factor I think last year having the region completely together. In the coming weeks, more troops and their equipment will arrive and hold more territory.
▶ 0:28:23The department is working with UN professionals to ensure the right pieces are positioned for success. As the GSF helps Haiti retake and secure terrain, strategic infrastructure, and vital supply and transit routes, the force is working to put itself out of business.
▶ 0:28:40One of the first tasks of the special representatives was to define an exit strategy with measurable objectives, performance indicators, and an implementation timeline, which he submitted to the standing group of partners in the UN Security Council on June 19, I'm sorry, June 29. Perhaps most sign significantly, Hades leadership is intent on building its own capacity. This includes a 40% expansion of the Haitian police this year and reconstituting the military for the first time in decades.
▶ 0:29:10The Haitian government sees holding the first elections in 10 years as critical to stability. It's not that just the gangs got stronger. It was that the government got weaker. Hades interim government is preparing for national elections, paving the way for an elected government next year. Economically, Hades priority is creating an alternative to gang enlistment. US trade preference programs such as Hope Help Act support a significant number of jobs.
▶ 0:29:38Uh we share the Haitian government's interest in strengthening uh that and uh would like to see a multi-year reauthorization of Help Hope. Hades problems are grave, but progress is achievable this year. The GSF will ramp up to full operations in coming months. The Haitian people and their interim government are determined to regain military and police capacity to protect their own homeland and close a dark chapter.
▶ 0:30:03Now is the time to solidify the path for Hades future for their benefit as well as for the United States and the broader region. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking member.
▶ 0:30:13Thank you, Ambassador. Uh Colonel Gronowski, I now recognize you for any opening statement you'd like to give.
▶ 0:30:20Thank you, sir. Chairman Mast, Ranking Member Meeks, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about Haiti and the Gang Suppression Force. I'm pleased to begin today's testimony by informing you that exactly one month ago, the Gang Suppression Force initiated operations to retake territory in Haiti previously controlled by terrorist gangs, resulting in several detainees, weapons seized, and incendiary devices destroyed.
▶ 0:30:47This may seem trivial uh but it represents a significant benchmark for stabilization efforts soon to come. We've learned more about Haitian gangs in the past 30 days in the previous 30 months. Today I will provide a brief overview of the force we designed to address the problem expected deployment timelines and considerations for the future force. My focus is security on which all Haitian stability rests. Let's begin with a clear articulation of the problem.
▶ 0:31:14The absence of governance in Haiti has created opportunities for informal power structures to thrive through use of force, financial independence, intimidation, and terrorism. Over 20 different gang leaders deploy their foot soldiers to fight for control over Hades territory, and dwindling resources.
▶ 0:31:32These gang leaders whose forces outnumber Haitian security force personnel dictate daily life in [snorts] the territories they control by providing security, jobs, school supplies, and condolence payments. This threat is multiaceted and has become entrenched within the corrupt fabric of Hades political and economic elites. These are not simple gangs that can be jailed and prosecuted. This isn't Westside Story.
▶ 0:31:59This threat requires a predominantly military solution and we designed the GSF to address the threat I just described, differentiating it from previous multinational force interventions. The international peacekeeping apparatus is ineffective against this threat. Instead, unlike the previous MSS, we opted for an intelligence-driven militaryheavy solution to conduct counter gang operations.
▶ 0:32:25In collaboration with our Haitian partners, we designed this novel approach to source military and police forces from the international community, and we challenged the UN to adapt their historic practices in a manner to sustain these forces in austere This new hybrid approach, forward-leaning security operations underpinned by the UN logistical support structure, offers the best chance of regaining territorial control from the gangs. So, how's it working out?
▶ 0:32:52To manage expectations, operations just began in mid June and have far to go. This year, we selected a special representative, Jack Chrisphites, to lead the mission, as well as force commander, major general Erinbatsuri, uh, and his headquarters staff from Mongolia. We adjudicated over 17,500 pledges from 19 countries to optimize a fighting force of 5,500 personnel from 10 countries.
▶ 0:33:17Together with the UN, we have deployed about,00 security personnel from six of these countries since April and are preparing to open our second area of operations. We expect to be at full operational capability this fall, distinct from full strength. As with any new approach, this mission has its challenges. We continue to push the UN to think creatively and repackage its concept of support in Haiti to evolve from peacekeeping to direct support to security operations.
▶ 0:33:46This hybrid UN supported approach results in considerable savings to the American taxpayer from over $1 billion over two years to 119 million annually reflecting a 78% annual reduction while also attracting massive interest from troop and police contributing countries due to familiarity and experience with the UN We still have a few months until we are at full capacity, but there are indications the force we've designed will achieve its objectives.
▶ 0:34:17Our goal now is to get the remaining personnel from the other four countries deployed as fast as possible to consolidate gains and hold the territory we clear while diplomatically we pursue mandate renewal. We must simultaneously facilitate growth of the Haitian security forces. This is critical. while integrating them into operations so we can sec so they can secure their own country through full imple implementation of the GSF.
▶ 0:34:42The international community places Haitian security forces in the best position to take full responsibility for their own country's security. The hybrid approach we've taken with the UN is the best available solution to a national security threat less than 700 miles from American shores. I welcome your questions. Thank you.
▶ 0:35:00Thank you, Colonel. going to alternate between Republicans and Democrats for uh about five minutes of questions for each person. Going to begin with Representative Smith.
▶ 0:35:10Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And uh welcome to both of you. First of all, I want to um Mike Kak has been a leader for over 50 years. I've worked with him with the OCE, worked with him when he was the ambassador to Bellarus, and I've certainly been working on that issue my much of my time here.
▶ 0:35:29uh and so many other important postings um Havana Cuba you know as the chief of mission a wealth of experience and not just knowledge but of wisdom and I want to thank you for that tremendous leadership you have shown over so many years and welcome to you Colonel as well um just a couple of questions you know I I I'm the author of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act and matter of fact right now Muffoney and I are trying to reauthorize it with a Frederick Douglas act we're hoping to get it on the floor soon.
▶ 0:35:59Uh, but Haiti has been a special case of of trafficking. Years ago, I held a series of hearings with Nancy Bvard and others from the airline ambassadors uh, international and they broke up trafficking rings coming they law enforcement did, but they were the eyes and ears as flight attendants when all of these kids were coming up from Haiti uh, being sold into modern-day slavery as as little kids.
▶ 0:36:24uh horrific abuse and I'm wondering if you know with all of the work you're doing and trying to do um if you could shed any light on what's being done now to try to mitigate this exploitation of of children and women uh through trafficking rings. Secondly, the church uh I don't want to go too long, we only got five minutes, but the churches, what role are they playing? Because usually the faith community can play a very positive role. Uh obviously when the guys are running around with the gangs with guns, it's harder.
▶ 0:36:53uh obviously and when as you said it's not that the gangs have gotten stronger but the government has gotten weaker. So I wonder what we can do to further fortify their message from the pulpit um from the cardinals to the to the priest in the pulpit and and every other part of the faith community. And finally, you know, I remember when the Harland County was turned back, uh, that ship, uh, because there were a few protesters out on the docks, uh, the mistakes that were made with the Clintons after the horrific earthquake.
▶ 0:37:24I've read books about it, uh, and and have spoken about it and and when they didn't really do the job of rebuilding that should have been done. Uh, and I just hope, you know, I know we're going to get it right this time, at least I believe we will, uh, especially with your wisdom being brought to bear on all of this. So uh trafficking, children and the church.
▶ 0:37:46Thank you uh Mr. Chairman also from from past days and thanks for the kind words on the trafficking front. This is why we're trying to shut off throughout the whole region, not just in Haiti, but as you say that there's been some particularly horrific abuses in the in the past. But, you know, by by our ability to have stopped illegal immigration coming in, u I think we've we've helped in that respect.
▶ 0:38:15But the other thing you find is that the same groups that are trafficking humans are trafficking drugs. They're trafficking arms in the other direction and so on. And one of the reasons that the administration uh declared the gangs to be uh foreign terrorist organizations was that that gives us some extra tools. we can we can prosecute people in the United States who provide material support to such an organization.
▶ 0:38:40Um, and we've seen some uh evidence of this already with a couple of the Haitian elite type leaders who were living in the United States and financing uh these kinds of bad activities in Haiti um losing their immigration status and having to to leave the country. So, uh there'll be hopefully more of that to come, but we're trying to put a real law enforcement effort on uh there.
▶ 0:39:07Uh churches, you're absolutely right, are one of the lynch pins of the place and are are trying to uh um stabilize uh people. It's interesting though is Mr. Meeks mentioned the need for a Haitianled solution. And when you do polling in Haiti now, something like 90% of the population really want an elected government. They want to pick their own government.
▶ 0:39:33They've had too many years of, you know, well-intended foreigners picking people for them. usually not on the grounds that they were the going to be the best leader, but because the people they were picking could cause uh having their gang connections could cause disarray in the streets and said, "Oh, we need to bring them into the government in order to avoid them trying to overthrow the government." Bad idea. That that that has not worked out at all well.
▶ 0:39:59So I think that's what we're hearing a lot from the churches too is let's let's get moving uh on and and you see it reflected in the in the views of the the prime minister of Haiti that uh that elections are very very important uh to get to that kind of Haitianled government. And then finally I will observe I was around when the Harling counties steamed away. that was a a very very bad day because it uh totally discredited uh the the whole international effort at the time.
▶ 0:40:30So uh we you know we we do not want that to happen again. Uh this this time we got to make it work and make it work uh so that you end up with a with a Haiti that's Haitianled and stable.
▶ 0:40:44Again, I'm putting a plug for the for the Hope Health Act because I think our view is the way to get Haiti to be self-sufficient and so on is is it's got to be able to attract investment that will create jobs and so on and not not have it be jobs created by the government with uh with aid funds from from other countries. So that that would be my points. Thank you,
▶ 0:41:08Rank Member Meeks.
▶ 0:41:11Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First Kurt, I want to thank you. Um, I want you to know that I 100% support and behind you and want you to be successful because without security, we can't make the next step. And so, that's really important. Uh, and I'm ready to work with anybody that's going to make that happen. So, I listen to you intently. I don't disagree with you. I think that we need to make sure that we have the security on the ground so that we can then have the implementation that the ambassador was just talking about of creating a Haitianled government.
▶ 0:41:41But we can't do it without security. So I just want you to know to know that. Now my my concern goes towards Mr. Ambassador um that on November 28th the DHS issued a notice terminating TPS for Haiti uh which is really my focus.
▶ 0:41:59And they said that there are no extraordinary and temporary conditions in Haiti that prevent the Haitian nationals from returning in So I want to know did you know after secretary Noom made the decision uh she said she did it with consultation of other partners etc. But can you tell me was the state department of state consulted uh by secretary no known nom's decision uh to terminate TPS for Haiti?
▶ 0:42:29Were you consulted or anything of that nature? I know what you where you were previously and Mr. Smith talked about your great work, humanitarian work, but were you consulted on that at all?
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Mr. Ambassador,
▶ 0:42:42were we consulted on?
▶ 0:42:46I don't believe so, sir. But uh but I would observe that you have to look at the security. I mean, we do provide DHS with country conditions uh reports and in uh Haiti there, as the prime minister will tell you, out of the 10 uh departments of Haiti, he said we could have elections in seven of them tomorrow that they're that they're stable and and uh life goes on as normal.
▶ 0:43:14It's it's Porta Prince and Artit and and the West that are that are the
▶ 0:43:20huge where most of the population is. But what I'm really trying to be focused on here is, you know, we've got over uh uh 300,000 Haitians that may be pushed back into into Haiti given the conditions that I heard the colonel talking about uh earlier. Uh and you you know, there was for example roughly 5,600 homicides in 2024 alone, almost 157% increase from 2022 according to the UN.
▶ 0:43:50and the state department's own travel advisory rates porter prince as a critical threat crime for location. So I was wondering and I don't know whether you can or not you know and at the same time you know the president of course uh the administration has expanded refugee admissions for white Africanas from South Africa citing safety concerns there. But I see and hear and listen to you intently of the safety concerns uh that are taking place currently in Haiti.
▶ 0:44:18Um, I don't know if if if you can walk the committee through the department's assessment of Haiti, uh, that may have led the administration to conclude that it was safe to end tps for Haitians. Uh, you know, this is something that, uh, members uh, in my constituency, I have a large Haitian constituent are asking me ex, you know, intensively.
▶ 0:44:40So, I was wondering if there's a way that you can uh give us or walk us through uh how it's now safe for these individuals uh or determine how it was determined that it was safe for these individuals to to come back to Haiti. Well, Congressman, I'm not the greatest expert on TPS, but I would observe that with respect to all these different countries that had TPS, many of these have have been temporary that have gone on for decades.
▶ 0:45:10We had in Central America TPS status that was granted because of hurricanes that occurred in the '9s. Uh, in the case of Haiti, I think it was the earthquake in
▶ 0:45:21I understand. I don't mean to cut you off. I just I'm limited on time. Yeah. Uh but because you know
▶ 0:45:27we're talking about an influx and I don't see if they have an additional 300,000 people coming in given the scenario that's going to help uh even help the colonel with what he's trying to do. Uh the other thing that I just wanted to ask real quickly, you know, uh I passed I had a bill that passed in a bipartisan way called the Haitian Criminal Collusion Transparency Act. Uh passed with bipartisan support.
▶ 0:45:50said it was the intent of the bill is to go after those individuals uh that uh uh that are running the corrupt political and economic networks that finance the gangs traffic weapons and profit from Hades instability because it seems to me that they've gone by with impunity and I think that we've got to go. So I was wondering if you could tell me if you know have any individuals been sanctioned in Haiti in response to the bipartisan report uh you know that are supporting putting the money in?
▶ 0:46:17Uh, I haven't heard of any, but do you know whether or not anybody has been
▶ 0:46:22Well, I mentioned the the uh people who were expelled from the United States. They lost their LPR status because of of that kind of behavior. Um, others have others have been sanctioned. I'm cannot tell you which of the different legal authorities were used for those sanctions, but there there are people who have OFAC sanctions on them because of uh of their financing of the of the gangs. And
▶ 0:46:48so, let me just say this. I think it's important that if someone has been sanctioned, we need to know their names. The Haitian people need to know their names because when I talk to the Haitian people and on the ground, they say these people continue to walk around with impunity. Uh and that makes them afraid also. So if I mean that's why we passed this bipartisan way. Those names should be given to you.
▶ 0:47:09Those names should be exposed to the general public so that the Haitian people in America know that these folks are not walking around with impunity and that we're going to make sure that they are held accountable for supporting financing etc the violence that continues to take place in Haiti. We got to get rid of them so that we so the colonel can be successful. We create the institutions and we have the elections that you're talking about. I yield back.
▶ 0:47:32Representative Wilson. Thank you very much uh chairman Brian Mass for bringing these uh tremendous witnesses here today on such an important issue and in particular Ambassador Kak uh you're so appreciated with your service in Minsk Havana now helping focus on Porta Prince uh we are all hopeful for fair and free elections in these countries of Barus Cuba and even Haiti and um nobody can accuse you of being sent to um luxurious Caribbean
▶ 0:48:03uh operations. With that in mind, too, I'm so grateful for ranking member Meeks, who is promoting today bipartisanship with Chairman Brian Mast and Ambassador. The administration has called the Biden era MSS mission and ineffective boondoggle. It costs the American taxpayers nearly 1 billion dollars to feel roughly 1,000 personnel, mostly police, with no mandate to take on the gangs.
▶ 0:48:31And can you verify again one more time how much per uh patrolman that is?
▶ 0:48:37Yeah, I think it it works out to about a half a million dollars per person per year. Uh not not a very good uh uh ratio there for
▶ 0:48:48well that's just startling and the American people need to know that. Even
▶ 0:48:52uh Congressman Scott Perry didn't know that. And so it's an amazing fact sadly to be acknowledged. When the final contingent fell fel left in April, the gangs control more territory than when the mission began. What is the State Department's assessment of what went wrong and what does that failure tell us how the United States should approach missions going forward?
▶ 0:49:17Well, I'll look to uh the colonel to to comment, too. But I just say from my standpoint, I think it's it's both quantity and quality that you a thousand people was not nearly enough to uh to deal with the with the threat that existed. And on the other hand, it's the mandate. They they were supposed to be there to support the Haitian police, which is completely or was a completely decimated uh bunch.
▶ 0:49:43Um and and not to be able to go out and run operations of their own. So that's what we've tried to correct with the with the gang suppression force is to make it s much bigger. In the meantime too, our colleagues in the Bureau of uh uh narcotics and and law enforcement uh have been working with the Haitian government to train up uh another uh 4,000 police by the by next year.
▶ 0:50:11So this I mean the police right now on the books I think it's about The actual people who show up on any given day are probably more like 6,000. And of those, something like 400 do most of the fighting.
▶ 0:50:25So, the whole idea here is to to get the Haitians beefed up, but also to have the have the gang suppression force sizable enough and with a a more military kinetic type mandate where they can go out, clear these guys, bad guys, out of an area, and then you and then have enough Haitian forces to come in and take it.
▶ 0:50:45the the Kenyans would go on patrol and mix it up with the gangs, but soon as they left, the gangs were right back there again because there was nobody to hold the the territory at all. So the those were some of the problems that they they faced as well as just having a uh extreme uh toothtotail ratio uh in favor of the tail over
▶ 0:51:07indeed. I'm glad General that all this is being monitored. Um Bangladesh should be applauded uh ambassador to provide gang suppression task force largest contingent nearly 1600 personnel and the schedule counts on more than double the force in September but Bangladesh had to freeze freeze its deployment once this spring and now it's being delayed again.
▶ 0:51:33What can we do to help the courageous people of Bangladesh to be able to participate in general?
▶ 0:51:42Yeah, thank you Congressman. Uh that's a good question. Uh I'm very uh thrilled to to state today that Bangladesh is in good shape for the deployment. Their deployment is back on track. Uh they've conducted a two reconnaissance visits to Porta Prince uh including with their senior leadership. uh they have repledged all the forces uh that were pledged previously and they are on full glide slope to deploy as anticipated. So we're in good position.
▶ 0:52:10In fact, I will be traveling to Bangladesh on the 8th of August to do the pre-eployment visit.
▶ 0:52:15Well, indeed it it's so refreshing refreshing to see the country of Bangladesh uh have such a participation and be so recognized by the United States and uh even in the Western Hemisphere. So, thank you for your service and uh and and again assisting the military of Bangladesh. I yield
▶ 0:52:34Thank you, Representative Wilson. My understanding of the the TPS was actually that it so decimated the police force. Uh that's in part why they were not there to support the MSS. Uh they were uh actually they the police force had to start going to telling people they had to pick up their checks in person because so many of them came to the United States and kept collecting their direct deposits that there were no police there to do the the work that they were supposed to be doing. Big
▶ 0:53:01problem indeed. I was wondering how are they being paid? Thank you.
▶ 0:53:05Uh Representative Keading.
▶ 0:53:09Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Kak. Uh it's fair to say in Haiti there's there's a fair amount of crime and kidnapping and terrorism and unrest and uh healthcare capacities severely constrained. Uh don't you agree?
▶ 0:53:29Certainly in the areas that the gangs uh have control there's a a lot of that that type of behavior.
▶ 0:53:37Yeah, Colonel. why you're there and you're doing your work and we appreciate your work there. Uh so if that's the case uh and I guess that's why the state department uh war you know issued a do not travel advisory in the area because of those severe risks. Isn't that make sense?
▶ 0:53:57Do you agree with that?
▶ 0:53:58Yes sir. I would I would note that the the do not travel advisory or any of our travel advisories are aimed at the risks posed to American visiting a country not
▶ 0:54:10say the crime you're saying all the crime and everything else there is just if you're looking at kidnappings and so on Americans are juicy targets for kidnappers because you can extort a lot
▶ 0:54:22but but the crimes are there and there also crimes imposed on other Haitians that are there and other peoples that are there. I mean, they're just not saying let's do crime to Americans. That being the case,
▶ 0:54:34crime affects people across the board. But the travel advisory Americans
▶ 0:54:40if the crime is so severe and we have a colonel uh who's you know leading an effort at uh suppression of that those gangs then with 350,000 Haitians uh who uh are on TPS temporary protective status here and these are adults and uh and they have work permits uh and they're in positions in my state and others uh of critical need, long-term care, hospitals, hospitalities,
▶ 0:55:10agriculture. I mean, these are people that are here. So, why what's the purpose? There's a contradiction obviously in the staff. It's it's not safe. We have a task force uh a gang suppression force there militarily and these people were given status because of that danger. Now, it's all of a sudden safe to send them back. Can you explain that contradiction? It's an obvious contradiction.
▶ 0:55:42Congressman, I would I would say note for uh and I I don't know the figures for Haiti exactly, but when I look at TPS beneficiaries in other countries, usually one thing you'll find is that a great deal of that total number are people who've already adjusted status and have LPR status in the United States. So, they probably won't be going
▶ 0:56:04But the the TPS people are and there's Haitians in there. I can tell you right
▶ 0:56:11what I'm saying is when you look at the 350,000, if you dig deeper in your figures, you'll find those were beneficiaries originally, but many of them will have adjusted status during the decades that they were in the United States. And so, that that's not somebody who's going back. Well, the um they're being told these people are now having to give their employers notice right now. They're saying, "Hey, they're sending me back." I and we're hearing uh from these employers. We're hearing from co-workers.
▶ 0:56:40We're hearing from chambers of commerce and industry leaders uh about that. But and that's important to us here in the United States. But they're also in terms of helping the people in Haiti. So many of these people are sending back remittances. you know, they're working, they're saving, they're scrging for what they have, and they're sending it back to their families there to help them. So, uh, why is not this not a good thing? They're here. We're getting helped. They're here because they were in danger. Many of them were targeted.
▶ 0:57:08And as the colonel knows, these people from the early ages, 8, nine years old, many of them are uh already being pressured into a a gang activities and future gang activities. How can we take a winwin situation where we're helping people, helping the United States, helping our economy, and helping Haitians because that money is coming back to help support families. We're taking a win-win situation. And you know what this administration is doing?
▶ 0:57:36It's making that win-win situation lose lose. I mean, we're here with the State Department, and I'll I will say the State Department acted with its advisory. Uh but what about the other administration uh members? Are you in con contact at all with Steven Miller? Have you ever talked to Steven Miller?
▶ 0:57:57And what is he does he have this
▶ 0:57:59Not on this particular topic, but let me let me So I'm just asking so you never talked to Steven Miller about this particular topic. Have you talked to Secretary Rubio about this particular
▶ 0:58:12topic about what I raised here in my
▶ 0:58:15Yes. And what does he have to say? I mean, he's a reasonable man.
▶ 0:58:18He supported these things when he was in the Senate. is supposed to be for people who are in the United States and an earthquake happens or something and you don't want
▶ 0:58:30It's also for violence, sir. You know, you know it yourself. Jeopardy there with the conditioned representative is people using that for years and years and years. I mean, people who people who come here lawfully also send home remittances and so on. Uh, and that's a good thing.
▶ 0:58:49Well, these people are here lawfully. They're here as part of that s they are temporary point. I'm afraid I'm going to have to yield back because my time is
▶ 0:58:59Representative Kim.
▶ 0:59:02Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member Mix for hosting today's hearing. And I want to thank uh Ambassador Kak and Colonel uh Goroski for joining us today. The State Department's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs developed the P4000 initiatives to quickly train, re recruit, and equip new Haitian National Policy Officers. And I know Ambassador Kosu touched on this, so thank you for that.
▶ 0:59:30And I believe last fall the program officially began training new Haitasian national policy officers to combat armed gangs. Um Colonel Gokosski this mission's end state is a Haiti that can secure itself. Today only a 100 Haitian police officers do most of the fighting. Um the P4000 program is actively striving to train more. Understand?
▶ 0:59:59So, what do you think is a realistic timeline for Haitian forces to take the lead and what more do they need from us to get there?
▶ 1:00:10Thanks for that question, Congresswoman. Uh, and this is an important one because this dictates our exit criteria for special force. So, I can't emphasize this enough. the the INL supported P4000 program has been uh an extensive uh time multiplier in growing these forces.
▶ 1:00:30Not only are we growing the size of the forces, but they have uh changed the the instruction to be more applicable not to disasters or things like this, but to the counter gang operations they are conducting. Uh to date, they have over 2,000 personnel who have gone through this and by March 27 that will be a 40% increase. 4,000 new security force personnel. Uh so by the end of 2026, we should see an HMP number.
▶ 1:00:56Uh the ambassador mentioned uh that the total number around 14,000, but it's really only about 6,000 uh prior to P4,000 who were uh coming to work every day. Uh so by the end of 2026, we should have about 8,000 Haitian National Police uh in addition to 2,000 FOD Haitian military personnel. uh 2027 projections are around 10,000 Haitian police and by 2028 we're looking at 13,000.
▶ 1:01:23So combined security forces, Haitian and military, by 2028 we're looking about 19,000. Well, that begs the question, how many do we need?
▶ 1:01:32And if you add in the gang suppression force, of course, you augment those numbers a little bit. In in peace time scenarios, uh academic figures uh and doctrinal figures state that you need about 2.8 8 security force personnel per 1,000 people. So for Haiti, that's about 30,000 personnel, over 30,000 personnel.
▶ 1:01:53If you combined Haitian National Police and military personnel without the gang suppression force, you know, we're probably looking somewhere 2029, but that's the again without the gang suppression force. Not saying the gang suppression force needs to stay there that long, but that's the point at which Haiti will have some numbers uh able to secure themselves. There there's also the issue of quality, right? quantity and quality. Uh we need folks who can of course uh be present but also those who can do the job effectively and not contribute to a deteriorating security
▶ 1:02:23Thank you very much. Uh Ambassador Kak, the State Department has played central role in supporting the gang suppression force through diplomatic engagement with partner nations and the United Nations. So what specific diplomatic steps has the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs taken to secure and sustain contributions from these partner countries and how are you addressing any gaps in participation or logistical challenges from international
▶ 1:02:56So the question was about contributions to the force. I think there are two two types here. uh one is the as we mentioned in testimony the logistics are being done through assessed contributions in the UN system. So the US gets stuck with like 25% of that because that's our share of UN assessed contributions but other UN members then are picking up the other 75% of the logistics.
▶ 1:03:22the pay like for the the salaries of the personnel and so on is voluntary contributions and we've uh had really very good uh response on that. some of our colleagues in the uh in the standing group of partners and particularly Canada has taken on the job of uh urging others to contribute finances to that and we've had uh contributions from Canada from the Dominican Republic, Germany, Uh so there's a wide
▶ 1:03:52variety of countries that aren't part of the force that are that are contributing to that. And I think we have a fairly robust 117 million or something in in that fund right now.
▶ 1:04:04So that's that's been the effort and so far it's been quite successful.
▶ 1:04:09Great. Well, thank you. My time's up. I yield back.
▶ 1:04:12Representative Barah.
▶ 1:04:14Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, first I'd like to associate myself with the ranking members um comments about um TPS. Um, you know, I think it does betray our values as Americans, regardless of why the individuals came to the United States. Sending them back into harm's way, um, without the stability that we hope to accomplish in in Haiti, I think, is is a betrayal of who we are as Americans.
▶ 1:04:42That said, um, you know, the goal here is to create some stability in Haiti. I think my my friend from New Jersey, Mr. Smith, talked about getting it right. That's been a challenge, right? We've tried multiple different things. We've tried external leadership. We've thrown money at situations. Um, and we've have a, you know, a worse situation today than, you know, we we've had in a long time. And I think Chairman Mass talked about the proximity of Haiti to the United States.
▶ 1:05:10And, you know, to have a Mogadishu type situation and border prince is not a good thing for stability in the United States either. Um, I'd like to just go through stepwise what getting it right might look like. Um, and you know, obviously, um, correct me if I'm I'm wrong. You know, Ambassador, you talked about, um, you know, we tried external leadership in Haiti and propping up external leaders. The Haitian people want a Haitianled solution.
▶ 1:05:41So, getting it right. first step would be getting elections and allowing the Haitian people to um elect a leader. Um that may not be a leader that we would have selected. That may be a different leader. Maybe a leader that is a strong person who is going to bring stability to institutions and so forth.
▶ 1:06:03Step two would be rebuilding at least some semblance of functional institutions that can keep the energy on, that can, you know, educate their kids, create some stability. Um, reconstituting a police and security force. We won't get to 30,000 immediately, but, you know, you have to make that investment so the Haitians can protect themselves.
▶ 1:06:25Colonel, you talked about um you know moving away from a peacekeeping force to a force that in some ways is a military force that can retake territory and hold territory. Part of what failed in the past was I think ambassador you talked about Kenyan forces and others going in clearing areas but not holding areas. Is that an accurate statement?
▶ 1:06:50So that would be starting with external forces to help clear territory, hold territory, but ultimately Haitian security forces long term have to be able to hold that territory, right? Create peace and security. Is that an accurate statement? and then you know I think there's got to be some economic hope in the future, right?
▶ 1:07:15So one key step is we extended um the hope help act for a year that's going to expire. There is some urgency that we need to keep the hope act going. Is that would that be your assessment
▶ 1:07:29Yes representative. Uh we favor a multi-year reauthorization of hope helppel because what we what you find is that businesses if it's only yearbyear they are the uncertainty means that they're going to move somewhere else where where it's a little more stability. So we would be strongly in favor administration strongly in favor of a multi-year reauthorization of hope helppel and that helps your other
▶ 1:07:55from a security perspective we should think about porter prince as one security challenge we should think about other parts of Haiti where there's less gang activity less um lawlessness as a different type of challenge is that an accurate statement so um I've got a minute left you And based on that, is that the right priority?
▶ 1:08:19Elect a government, reestablish some functional institutions, um build police and security forces, work with them to take and hold territory. Um and then, you know, rebuild some functional economy.
▶ 1:08:37Yes, sir. I mean, I I would say all of the above. And I don't think there there's no reason that that those those various steps you just laid out can't be done in in parallel to a great degree.
▶ 1:08:52yeah, just to emphasize that you can't uh it's not a checklist. You can't do one and then the next. I know you know this, but uh these are all influencing each other. It's kind of a Gordian knot and uh we have to make sure we have the appropriate amount of pressure on each one of those issues to move forward
▶ 1:09:06And this is not going to be a six-month proposition. This may be a longer term proposition to create some stability.
▶ 1:09:13Yes, sir.
▶ 1:09:14Okay. Thanks. I'll yield back.
▶ 1:09:17Thank you, Representative Barrett. Before I recognize Representative Wat Ratawagen, I will submit for the record uh the uh Haitian TPS authorization which does outline the reason for the 2010 uh Haitian TPS uh the the 18month TPS that went on for 16 years for catastrophic earthquake, loss of life, displacement, and collapse of infrastructure as well as a few other things. Submit that for the record. Representative Verataw Wagon.
▶ 1:09:47Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And uh I want to thank you and uh the ranking member for holding this important hearing today. My question is for Ambassador Under resolution 2793, the special representative was required to give the security council a strategy with concrete timebound benchmarks no later than nine months after adoption.
▶ 1:10:13That deadline, June 30th, passed three weeks ago and no strategy has been made public. Was it delivered at all? Are its benchmarks genuinely measurable? And will you commit to providing them to this committee?
▶ 1:10:30Congresswoman, my understanding is that the special representative did provide uh the benchmarks and so on on the 29th of June. So just made it by a day. I think the the the 9month limit, but uh there there is such a thing. Maybe the colonel can describe it a little more
▶ 1:10:49Yes, Congresswoman. Uh so those were submitted. Uh there are three major priority focus areas. They're in line with the mandate. So the first one is of course territory held by the gangs and ensuring that that territory is retaken and the ME benchmarks are focused on achieving that. The second one is security of critical infrastructure.
▶ 1:11:07So everything from the seap ports to the airports to the roadways to the borders security of that infrastructure by Haitian security forces against special pressure forces initially is the second element and then the third one is security forces of of Haiti. Uh so their their growth and ability to take over that mission in the longer term but those were provided on schedule and they are working towards those goals now.
▶ 1:11:30Thank you Mr. Chairman. Yield back.
▶ 1:11:32Representative uh Representative Ammo. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. I'm grateful uh for your work. Uh today we're discussing the dangerous conditions in Haiti uh while the Trump administration ends temporary protected status for around 350,000 Haitians. The administration uh has determined that there are no conditions that quote prevent Haitian nationals from returning in safety.
▶ 1:12:00The administration has claimed that Haiti is safe enough to deport TPS holders while simultaneously being so dangerous that it requires millions of dollars to support an international security mission. So, let's state facts that have been affirmed by lots of the testimony in in this hearing. Haiti is not a place where those under TPS can safely return.
▶ 1:12:23If the president moves forward with the deportation of Haitian TPS holders, he will be subjecting more than 300,000 people to extreme levels of violence, sexual exploitation, and a dire humanitarian crisis. That's 300,000 lives that will never be the same. In my home state of Rhode Island, over 1,700 Haitian TPS holders are facing this uncertainty and threat of violence. This pain won't be restricted to Haitian TPS holders and their loved ones.
▶ 1:12:51It will reverberate throughout our economy as our hospitals, long-term care facilities, schools, and small businesses lose the Haitian employees who keep our communities running. Haitian TPS holders make America stronger, contributing around 5.9 billion dollars to the US economy each year. Instead of supporting these businesses or simply upholding our values as a nation of immigrants, the president has decided to move forward to end TPS.
▶ 1:13:20Now, Trump hasn't started the mass deportation of TPS holders, and already more than half of Haitians are relying on humanitarian assistance. Adding hundreds of thousands more people to the already struggling island will only make the situation worse. In 2024, the United States provided around 60% of humanitarian assistance to Haiti.
▶ 1:13:41Uh but Ambassador Kak uh up to 50% of the life-saving programs for health care, HIV treatment, food security, and clean water uh treatment uh were cancelled during your tenure.
▶ 1:13:55In June, uh the United Nations effort to provide aid to Haitians only had 25% of the funds it needed and was forced to limit their life-saving operations to protect the 1.47 million people forced to flee their homes, the more than 5.8 8 million people facing acute food insecurity in the crumbling health system. So, Ambassador, my question for you is, how do you plan to deal with the competing needs for health care, food, clean water, and security?
▶ 1:14:22Do you have a plan to seek additional funding to meet the moment and the challenges in Haiti?
▶ 1:14:30Yes, sir. With respect to the your last I don't have a a total for you, but I know I sign off pretty frequently on grants for humanitarian assistance to Haiti there. It's food, water, medicine, and uh I think it's in the hundreds of millions that we have that we've provided. Um so and as well as food under the uh food for peace program.
▶ 1:14:58So I I am not aware that there is a big gap there. We we've uh had no real problems getting uh the administration to provide the assistance that that appears to be required for those purposes. Um so
▶ 1:15:14and and you don't believe that the reductions uh that we've seen uh have had a material impact on your ability to carry out the mission? Yeah, I think it's you have to go back and look at all the different subcategories of aid and so on, but we've we've the one of the things that was exempt from from any cuts was life-saving assistance such as as food, medicine, water. Um and and we've continued to provide that.
▶ 1:15:42So, some sometimes people will say, well, this program got cancelled. And it's like, yeah, but we we moved it to another uh funding mechanism and it's still there.
▶ 1:15:51And is it not the case that you know you So you're you're still executing, but is it not the case that that some of the challenges will be exacerbated uh with the uh the culmination of TPS?
▶ 1:16:03Well, I think you can you can look at it both ways. As the chairman mentioned, u you know, some of those very productive people that you're mentioning could be very helpful in Haiti as as police officers, as people working in business there. One of the problems I've seen with Haiti over the years is even if you go back 30 years ago, uh they had nothing close to 30,000 security forces. They had always a lot fewer than that.
▶ 1:16:32And then government successive governments relied on gangs to do some of the things that you would look to security forces to do.
▶ 1:16:41And that and that's just that's grown out of control. But you're not going to get you're not going to get the Haitians able to to fund security forces of the kind they need until they've got some kind of an economy going and that means having having people there who can uh be
▶ 1:16:57Ambassador, my time cuts both ways.
▶ 1:16:59My time's expired, but I would conclude by saying this. The administration knows that Haiti is facing this humanit humanitarian crisis and and adding more people to it only makes it worse. And so I hope the Secretary of State, the President reverse the termination of TPS and continue to work with you to make the situation better. With that, I yield
▶ 1:17:18Representative Perry. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks, gentlemen, for being here. I think I need to make a comment on TPS since it's become the subject much of this committee and this hearing at this time. It seems to me my colleagues on the other side of the aisle must think that it sounds like that they would export all 12 million Haitians to America because it's so dangerous there.
▶ 1:17:40If the answer to making it secure is TPS, then the only other answer can be have every single citizen of Haiti come to the United States of America and and and leave Haiti. And I would which is of course patently absurd as it should be. The other issue is is if you if every good person in Haiti that's not involved in organized crime, gang activity, what have you, leaves Haiti, how is Haiti ever going to get better?
▶ 1:18:09Somebody has to love Haiti and want to save Haiti. And to me, it seems like that most likely is the good people of Haiti. With that having been said, I want to level set here. Uh because I think we got to have a discussion how we got here, where we are. Since the 2010 earthquake alone, the United States has provided over 5.1 billion dollars in assistance to Haiti. USAID alone distributed dispersed roughly 4.4 billion in that window.
▶ 1:18:36And the international community pledged upward of 13 billion. That's just that one disaster of a population of 12 million people. That's $1,500 per person. United States has rebuilt clinics, funded elections, propped up governments, sent Marines in 1994, sent them again in 2004, backed to US stabilization force for 13 years. Let's let's not forget introduced a collar ep epidemic that killed thousands of Haitians and triggered a sexual abuse scandal involving UN peacekeepers.
▶ 1:19:07[snorts] And after all that spending and all that nation building, Haiti today has no functioning government, no elected president, no functioning police force capable of controlling its own capital and gangs that by most estimates control the large majority of Porta Prince.
▶ 1:19:23We launched the Kenyanled multinational security mission in 2024 and the administration itself has acknowledged we already spent roughly a billion dollars on Haitian security assistance and pledged 300 more directly to that mission. And by nearly every account it's been ineffective, undermanned, underfunded, unable to dislodge the gangs. And now we're told the answer is to reabel it, stand up the gang suppression force, target 5,500 troops, and try again.
▶ 1:19:52I'm here to ask the committee, why should we believe, the people on this committee, the American people that we represent, that the fourth or fifth iteration of the same basic model, foreign troops, foreign funding, weak Haitian institutions propped up indefinitely, produces a different result than the last four decades did. Every single metric of state capacity has gotten worse since we involved in this and has not gotten better.
▶ 1:20:18That having been said, I'm glad that you're that you've said that the benchmarks and the gate matrix were delivered to the security council by I think you said uh the 29th of June. Is that correct, ambassador? So, what I'm wondering, Colonel, I think your mission is a year. Is that about 12 months? Is that what it is?
▶ 1:20:38The mandate was initially authorized for a year.
▶ 1:20:41Okay. So, we've got the metrics, we've got the timeline. when h how often will you assess your success or failure? And I don't mean failure in terms of personal, but look, the mission's either going to be successful or not. So, how often and what iterations are you going to make that assessment? How will we find out? And what's the plan after a year if we're at the same place we are now or substantially at the same place?
▶ 1:21:07Yeah, thanks for that important question, Congressman. Um, so the the frequency of assessment is quarterly. they owe that that quarterly update on the benchmarks and metrics uh to to the gang suppression force standing group of partners. Um but but the latter part of your question is incredibly important which is how do at which point do we say hey we're not meeting the mark here. How do we need to adjust course the reason it's quarterly is be is exactly for that purpose.
▶ 1:21:34We need to take in in stride successes or failures and make adjustments. We need to be dynamic and able to adjust to meet the conditions. I I'll note that the the threat we face now is nowhere near the threat that was faced prior to 2020. This is a completely different threat. Two US designated foreign terrorist organizations, increasing alliances between these separate gangs.
▶ 1:21:57Uh the threat is is significant and we will only just be hitting our stride as the mandate needs to be renewed in October. So uh the the measurement is important. We need to maintain agility uh to make adjustments and that's what the standing group of partners the oversight body is for which the United States
▶ 1:22:15So one final question after the year has expired and elapsed and the assessment is is that we're no better off which is I think the most likely outcome are you willing to to uh to tell this committee that it's time to abandon at least that mission and and either try something new but not waste any more dollars on that particular are you prepared prepared to do that if that's the case.
▶ 1:22:39Yes, sir. That's my professional responsibility. However, I do not think that will be the case. We are already seeing the the strides uh you know the improvements that have been made just in the first 30 days of operations. I mentioned at the top in the past 30 days we've learned more about the gangs than we knew in the previous 30 months. Uh so we are seeing the the progress that's being made.
▶ 1:23:01Thanks Chairman Agil. Representative Thank you, Chairman Mast, uh, Ranking Member Meeks, and to our witnesses for being here today. The stories coming out of Haiti are devastating. Poverty is deepening, governance is collapsing, families are being forced from their homes, and children are paying the highest price.
▶ 1:23:26More than 1600 schools have closed because of violence, cutting children off from education. For many of these kids, schools was the only place they received a meal. When education and safety collapse, child recruitment by armed gangs intensifies. In 2025, powerful gangs that now control large parts of the country nearly tripled their recruitment of children.
▶ 1:23:54Today, up to half of all armed groups in Haiti involve children. How terrible is that? In conflicts like this, children are treated as cheap and they're treated as expendable. And when poverty, hunger, and the absence of schooling leaves families with almost no alternatives, recruitment becomes almost inevitable. It's all part of the terrible realities of a war economy.
▶ 1:24:23One child reported earning $1,000 a week, a massive sum of money in a country where 60% of its population lives in poverty. In other cases, we hear terrifying stories of homeless children as young as 11 years old being recruited and forced to burn the bodies of those killed by gang members. My daughter will turn 11 years old this It's been more than 16 years since Hades 2010 earthquake.
▶ 1:24:52In that time, some families have been displaced again and again. Many of the armed group leaders today and many of those in their ranks were children in 2010 when their own schools were shut down, their communities destroyed, and their own futures never rebuilt. Now we are sadly seeing it happen over again. And these sad cycles are unlikely to change so long as the conditions for children remain unchanged.
▶ 1:25:19The UN Security Council laid out strong safeguard measures in the Haiti Gang Suppression Forces mandate. It required that child protection be taken fully into account in the planning and the conduct of its operations and that apprehended children be referred to child protection actors and not detained. Uh, Colonel Gracowski, can you speak to what specific child protection training GSF troops receive before deployment and how compliance with handing with handover protocols are monitored and reported?
▶ 1:25:50Yes, thanks for that important question, Congressman. Uh so this is a very real challenge as you noted over 50% or around 50% of the gang population is comprised of children. Um and survival has become the only option in these areas that they operate. We we accounted for this in our design of the gang suppression force and we reinforced our pre-eployment training. This is critical about six weeks of training that each troop contributing country participates in prior to the deployment to Haiti.
▶ 1:26:20And this this is standardized. It has to be signed off on by leadership. Uh and and we work closely with with human rights professionals and international organizations to ensure that this type of training is included there. But additionally, and something new for the Gang Suppression Force is a mandatory two-week induction training.
▶ 1:26:38Uh this is two weeks of training that every single individual who arrives in Haiti conducts in Haiti with Haitian officials uh with Haitian experts uh and and with the gang suppression force leadership as oversight and the special representative and staff as oversight. So this is another touch point that did not exist previously where we reinforce these critical components and notably phase one day one is when this training uh specifically regarding children and human rights uh is covered.
▶ 1:27:06So uh it is and then uh you know throughout the deployment there are opportunities for retraining where we will look to address deficiencies and come back.
▶ 1:27:14Appreciate that Colonel and I'll do a follow-up question in writing about ensuring children are treated as victims and not held in adult facilities but happy to do that offline. Uh Mr. Kak, can you talk about what reintegration services um in the state department is using to currently support those who are de demobilized or escape child recruits? psychological care, psychosocial care, family reunification, education, etc. in the remaining 30 seconds.
▶ 1:27:40Yes, representative. Um, I think under the the way this has been structured in the UN, there's a UN uh uh office in Haiti that has responsibility for DDR, for disarmament, and reintegration. It's a super important function. And I think you you'll find also the uh the prime minister of Haiti is very keen on it as well.
▶ 1:28:04His father was the chairman at one point of the of a demobilization reintegration uh group. So while while the US isn't supporting that unilaterally uh we we've seen to it that that that function is being covered. It's not part of the gang suppression force. It's a separate UN activity, but it's a a very important one that that has to work for this all to work.
▶ 1:28:28I appreciate that. I know we're facing a crisis. I just don't want to make sure we we don't lose focus on our kids. I know my time is expired, so I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 1:28:36Representative Isa,
▶ 1:28:37thank you, Mr. Chairman. Colonel, I want to thank you for your service. I want to thank you for the efforts you're making to make Haiti safer. Mr. Kak, I'm going to put most of my questions toward you. Uh, is it accurate to say Haiti is the poorest country in our hemisphere?
▶ 1:28:56I think at this point that is accurate.
▶ 1:28:58And, uh, as far back as 2004, we have had to use, you know, force or or threat of force to realign Haiti at times, including the removal of their president. That's just a piece of history, right?
▶ 1:29:14I don't recall us removing their I think we
▶ 1:29:18we made him leave because he was putting neck ties which were tires around people and lighting fires because in fact you know we we had a problem that couldn't be solved anyway but the change of government. Is that historically right? you're right about the the neck ties necklaces as they called it. But that he was doing that uh before there was a coup against him in the 90s. we helped put him back in power again.
▶ 1:29:46Uh and then interestingly, he was one of the people who really decimated the Haitian security forces. He had an opportunity to have a a good clean force and instead uh drove out most of the the good people and tried to rule with gangs.
▶ 1:30:03And as I recall in 2004, what caused his departure is that he had he and one of his gang colleagues had killed uh a gang leader and the guy's brother who was head of something called the cannibal army marched on Porter Prince. And President Aristid was like, "Okay, where are the troops to save me?" And the answer was, "You got rid of him."
▶ 1:30:26And so the US helped him escape, but we did not remove him.
▶ 1:30:30Ah, okay. Maybe that's a better way to put it. We can go back to Truman and find similar events of Haiti needing American aid because of normal weather events or political unrest. Is that also fair?
▶ 1:30:46I think it's a very fair observation.
▶ 1:30:49And Colonel, I know uh you know the story of Captain Murphy and Murphy's law like every good uh army officer. Uh but do you also know Einstein's definition of insanity? Yes, sir. Doing the same thing, expecting the same results or different.
▶ 1:31:05Okay. So, what you're doing has some nuance difference, but it's substantially something we've done My question to you and the question that I will ask after a quarter of century including when Colen Pal and others were involved in 2004 and trying to stabilize Haiti once again is what is it we are offering to do that will change a system of government that has failed its people and people who neither have the money
▶ 1:31:35nor the resources nor the education to turn that around on their own and and I say that because after a quarter of a century just of my sitting here on the deis and starting down there when se secretary palif first came we obviously need something more than what we're doing we need something different than we're doing or we will continue to have Haitian boat people coming to America and either being turned around or not turned
▶ 1:32:05around but this will continue unless the state department in concert with others, including other nations, offer a real different approach that will both stabilize the ability of people to have a government they deserve and as all do and in fact a government that doesn't repeatedly uh disfavor the uh benefit of their people. Big big job. Can you do it? And how?
▶ 1:32:36Don't look at the colonel. his his job is just to make it safe.
▶ 1:32:41Okay. I I would and I' I've seen a lot of this history myself, Representative Isa. It it's it's not pretty. One thing that's interesting though, and we heard from some members of the committee this morning about how successful Haitians are when they come to the United States. And that uh I remember years ago there was a USA Today or something had a story about the most successful immigrant groups and Haiti was Haitians were right up there on top.
▶ 1:33:08So the problem is not Haitians, it's Haiti and and uh the the way it's been operated for years, the political culture there. Um, we are we are trying to change that this business of having and I think you've seen it recently where we've gone after some of the politicians there because of their connections with the gangs, political and economic leaders for years have used gangs to further their own private
▶ 1:33:37Well, I look forward to a further response. I know that chairman has a heavy gavvel uh but I do want to thank you for the efforts and I would like you to revise and extend with the things that would cause that to happen and Mr. Chairman if I can say the artist who has the same last name as mine who was famous part of the Issa family in Haiti for decades there was a time when Haiti was functional that was a long time ago so uh Mr. Chairman I look forward to the answer in writing yield back
▶ 1:34:05representative Stanton
▶ 1:34:06thank you very much Mr. Chairman, thank you for our witnesses. Today, Haiti faces a deepening humanitarian and security crisis. It's displaced over a million people, pushed the state toward the brink of collapse. Over the last year, gang control of Porta Prince expanded. Internal displacement levels not seen since the 2010 earthquake. And this year's elections are likely to be postponed again in large part due to insecurity in the country.
▶ 1:34:34The Trump administration helped establish the UN backed gang suppression force, GSF, that to empower a new force in Haiti to neutralize gangs rather than simply to play a support role for the Haitian National Police. A key difference from the existing US backed multinational mission for to um SPL Kak and Colonel Gorowski. The international community has spent more than 10 billion on security assistance for Haiti over the last two decades with a significant portion coming from the United States taxpayers.
▶ 1:35:03Yet significant sec security security challenges still remain. For either witness, what is different about the gang suppression force that should give us confidence that history has not been repeated?
▶ 1:35:16Congressman, thanks for that question. I really can't emphasize enough how much this is an apples and oranges situation. Uh the gang suppression force was fundamentally designed with the previous 11 multinational force interventions in mind. And it's different in a few very critical ways. The first way is the mission.
▶ 1:35:34This is a very much counter gang offensive operation focused on the mission neutralizing, isolating and deterring the gang members and securing critical infrastructure in addition to security force personnel uh The second is size. This this force is over five times larger than the the MSS force and and then if you take into account the structure the previous mission and perhaps missions mischaracterized the problem. They they thought of this as a criminal problem. It is not.
▶ 1:36:03This is a protoinsurgency and these folks really are on the verge of something significant if we can't stem the tide. So this is a four-fifths military structured force and one police force at least at the beginning. And it is comprised of components from the air, the land and the sea. We have a maritime component for maritime interdiction. We have an air component uh for aerial insertion and aerial interdiction. From a sustainment standpoint, we're dependent upon the UN. This is a critical distinction from the MSS.
▶ 1:36:33These troop contributing countries deploy with their own equipment. The previous mission, the United States Presidential Drawown Authority was used to provide equipment to these forces. So, they fell in on equipment. They didn't know how to drive. They didn't know how to operate. So, fundamental difference there. And then from a leadership standpoint, we designed this force with a special representative and staff to observe and control critical functions that need oversight. From your perspective, what does success for the gang suppression force look like?
▶ 1:37:04Yes. So, this is fundamentally a territorial problem, but as stated uh previously with regards to the benchmarks and indicators, the first element is territory that's controlled by the gangs. That territory has to be retaken and state functions have to be provided in those sections, in those areas. The second element is critical infrastructure. Right now there there's a a noam restriction on the airport because the gang threat the the gangs continuously shut down the seapport because of threats of violence and tolls.
▶ 1:37:34Critical infrastructure must be secured and we can measure that in terms of geography and and the last settlement is Haitian security forces. We are we are way under the amount of forces needed. Uh the United States uh support of the HMP has been instrumental, but we need more of it over.
▶ 1:37:53Of course, we're focusing on not just short-term violence reduction, but long-term stability for Haiti and the people of Haiti. What steps is the administration taking to ensure that the gang suppression force fits within the broader US strategy toward Haiti? Addressing not just security but also governance, judicial responsibility, uh accountability, imp uh judicial impunity, humanitarian needs, and ultimately long-term stabilization for the people of Haiti.
▶ 1:38:25Well, Representative, I would uh I think we've talked a little bit about uh some of the steps that need to be done in addition to securing the security situation. One of them is getting governance of Haiti by Haitians. Right now, you have no elected representatives in any branch of government in Haiti.
▶ 1:38:46All of the last elections were 10 years ago and the people who were there were sort of put in by by outside bureaucrats and and uh nobody had much uh respect for them. So, one of the one of the big parts of the strategy is for the Haitians to go ahead and uh as as rapidly as the security situation will allow to have elections, get representatives in their legislature, get a elected president, start to appoint
▶ 1:39:16uh judges and so on and have their own accountability mechanisms. We can't we can't substitute all of those from the outside. The other is economic. Um the this is why we were calling for a multi-year uh reauthorization of uh hope help the you can't go on forever with just outside injections of of aid. I mean much as important as the humanitarian aid is. That's not the optimum way to live.
▶ 1:39:42We want people to have jobs and to for the Haitian economy to be functioning and so on. And the way to do that is to attract uh outside investment. So these are all pieces of the puzzle that have to have to work together. But but they're, as the colonel said before, they're all interdependent on each other. One of them by itself is not going to work. We have to make them all fire on all cylinders at the same time.
▶ 1:40:07All right. I I just finally add, Mr. Chairman, that remittances from Haitian TPS owners in the United States would certainly help uh with stability in the country. and I feel it's not in the United States interest to return Haitian TPS owners to a dangerous situation in Haiti. I yield back. Thank you,
▶ 1:40:23Representative Baird.
▶ 1:40:25Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. Appreciate you having this hearing and u Ambassador Kak and and Colonel Gaggarski. Uh we appreciate you being here and and answering the questions from the committee. It really helps us understand where we're at.
▶ 1:40:43uh you know after the fall of the Soviet Union and I'm skipping some things that were happened back in 1915 uh regarding Haiti and our involvement there but after the fall of the Soviet Union our efforts did not cease we continued our support for a de democratic Haiti and first in 1994 and then in 2004 the US military stepped in to prevent military coup and the attempts against the democratically elected president uh Bertrren Aristide.
▶ 1:41:10So yet after all of our intervention uh Haiti continues to devolve and in 19 or u the country descended into gang violence which you've talked a great deal about following the assassination of the president uh Mosi and according to Secretary Marco Rubio the only way to bring stability to Haiti is to first eliminate the 40,000 violent criminals.
▶ 1:41:36So we have our challenge and you've expressed that already but our goal and the goal that's in front of us. So I want to I want to take a look at um the UN and US has a coordinated response. Haiti has hired a private contractor uh Vectus Global I think is the name to help with revenue collections and border and customs enforcement.
▶ 1:41:59Uh so Colonel, how do you anticipate uh the information sharing and operations between uh the VETCUS and uh other military forces and forces from Haiti and how will these operations be deconlicted uh regarding the information that they So that's a a great question and and I' I'd like to highlight that the Haitian task force of which Vectus Global is a part is a tremendous partner and
▶ 1:42:29uh just in the next week uh we will uh coordinate the the placement of a Haitian task force member in our joint operations center. So we will actually have a a an individual, he will be a Haitian National Police individual who is part of that task force of which Vectus Global supports who will coordinate and deconlict both operational planning and operational
▶ 1:42:57and you I can tell uh or I think that I'm seeing that you think that coordination is working well and will continue to improve and I think that's probably because partially because The Haitians would like to have a democracy as well. And so,
▶ 1:43:13yes, sir, it is already working well. We have coordination informally at the command level, at all levels of command with Baptist Global and the Haitian task force, but this will formalize that agreement and partnership.
▶ 1:43:27That's that I really appreciate hearing that because we're talking about American tax dollar and using them wisely. But, Mr. ambassador. Uh part of the objectives with Haiti is to hold a viable democratic election and transition of power. Uh the first round of the elections is scheduled for what the 30th of August, the 30th of next month. But and so my question is how likely is this to actually happen?
▶ 1:43:50And so want your opinion on what can be done to establish an effective election process just to give give us your Yes, thanks for the for the question, Representative. Uh I think over the years the US has contributed a lot to the Haiti election machinery and they Haiti has a it's still called a provisional electoral council.
▶ 1:44:13They've never quite formalized it, but but it's been provisional for 30 years and uh I I think you're right that that is the preliminary date that they that they set for the first round of elections. Whether that will actually occur on that date or not, I don't know.
▶ 1:44:29Uh this the prime minister of Haiti has pointed out that he says they they could have elections in in seven of their 10 you know, next week without any problem because of but the problem is the most populous part port of Prince uh has this security situation that would make holding elections difficult there.
▶ 1:44:50So I think it's it's it's going to depend on how successful our colleagues when the gangs of press and course are if they're able to to retake um you know enough territory in the capital and and uh create enough of a security situation that life is semi-normal there. It doesn't have to be perfect.
▶ 1:45:10Nobody's looking for I think one of the problems Haiti had over the years was different international groups would come in and say oh you have to have this this this and you'd end up with 187 different requirements for an election and never have an an election as a result. So I think I think the prime minister's got it about right. He wants to have a, you know, I said it's not, it won't be a Cadillac election, but if it's a good, you know, F-150 election, that's going to be that's going to be solid.
▶ 1:45:40They need an elected government. It doesn't need to be perfect. When it when it will happen, I mean, we hope it happens um on schedule. their goal is they even though they've lost an entire presidential term, uh February 7, I think is when the when the turnover should have occurred five years ago and and that's what they're shooting for.
▶ 1:46:03So, we'll we'll see, but that's definitely part of the goal. The US isn't isn't especially involved in that because they have a good capable election commission of their own. They've been working this on their own. They've got a lot of help from the UN and the OAS and so on. So we we don't have to do everything, but it's it's an important part. Repres.
▶ 1:46:22Thank you for that answer. I appreciate that. And uh you know, Colonel, I served in the army, so I have every confidence you'll be able to take care of his concerns. And I thank you and yield
▶ 1:46:31Representative Castro.
▶ 1:46:33Uh thank you, chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, for your testimony today. I wanted to follow up on the questions about Vectus Global and their involvement in Haiti and also their relationship with the United States military and government. Uh there's been a lack of transparency over the Vectus Global contract with the government of Haiti. Let me start with the basics. Um can either of you describe what kind of unmanned systems Vectus Global is operating in Haiti?
▶ 1:46:58Uh Ambassador Worster referred to them at the February Senate appropriations hearing as quote so-called kamicazi drones unquote armed ordinance equipped systems conducting strikes and not surveillance drones. Uh, so one of my questions is that an accurate description of what's being
▶ 1:47:20Congressman, I don't know all the specifics of Vectus Global's drones, but I do know that they operate reconnaissance drones in addition to oneway attack drones.
▶ 1:47:27I'm sorry, I can't hear you so well because your microphone so far down. Is it possible to move it?
▶ 1:47:32Yeah. So, I don't know all the specifics of Vectus Global's drone capabilities, but I do know they operate both reconnaissance and one-way attack drones. Uh so they act they activate or they operate both surveillance drones and attack drones. Um and who authorizes each strike? Is that an internal VETUS global decision or does the Haitian government have an authorization role in the process?
▶ 1:47:55I'm sorry sir, I can't speak to that.
▶ 1:47:58Is it classified information that you could offer in classified sitting?
▶ 1:48:01No, I'm just uh frankly unaware. It's not part of uh part of our mission and they report to the Haitian government. So it's not it's not part of our
▶ 1:48:10Uh you mentioned earlier that that you would that we would be coordinating here at some point with them. Is it something that you'll have more information on in six months or a year or shortly? Likely, but our our uh coordination is going to be focused on operations and deconliction. Right now uh the task force, the Haitian task force of which Vectus Global is a part operates in a in a different part of the uh of the area of operations. So we don't have any overlap.
▶ 1:48:36Uh but in the future, of course, as we shut down the gangs, that partnership will will get closer. So, we should have better insight.
▶ 1:48:44And well, I just want to know, I mean, for us as the oversight committee and really for our our government and for our nation, um this is an American company using American technology that may be that is using attack drones in Haiti and may be killing people on the streets. And so, I do think that it's something that that you all should be apprised of and that certainly as the oversight buddy that we should be apprised of. So I will revisit this issue with you uh in the future and hope that we can get more clarity on it. My next question for Mr.
▶ 1:49:14Kak. Human Rights Watch published a report on March 10th documenting drone strikes by Vectus Global in Haiti between March 1st, 2025 and January 21st, 2026. Their researchers confirmed at least 43 adults killed who were not members of any criminal group and 17 children killed in that period. Uh has state reviewed these findings? I'm generally aware of them. Yes.
▶ 1:49:44But we don't have a you know capacity to to crosscheck them. I mean I I take them at their word. Uh, and so that's I was going to follow up with a question is does the department maintain its own independent casualty count for a company it licensed to conduct these strikes or is human rights watches the only accounting that exists right now?
▶ 1:50:09Well, first on the question of licensing uh this is something I check would we cannot confirm or deny whether any particular license has been issued to any company or not. Um, so, uh, unfortunately I I I actually wanted to be able to say more on that, but I'm told that the by our lawyers that pursuant to to law, it's considered a proprietary information.
▶ 1:50:34And uh, so so that part I can't get into on the on the ability we, you know, and throughout the world we do rely heavily on human rights organizations to to for facts and figures of that kind. Um well let me in Haiti where we our embassy is very very constrained at this point because of the security situation.
▶ 1:50:58Sure. Uh let me follow up with a question to to Colonel. Do you believe uh having said what I just said about human rights watch report which Mr. Kak essentially said was true or had no reason to doubt. Uh do you believe Vectus Global's activities meet the standards that we expect of the US Uh what I can tell you congressman is that Vectus global operations and the task force operations uh for Haiti have become more and more discriminant.
▶ 1:51:29Uh they have gathered intelligence and had considerable success especially over the past six months putting the gangs on their back foot. So I I think that they are performing a function that is essential to future. You said that they become more discriminant. Would suggest that they become they become better at what they're doing and um more discerning, but it looks like they killed 17 children and 43 adults who were not associated within a criminal group.
▶ 1:52:00I mean certainly we would expect more discrimination or discernment than
▶ 1:52:05Yes. So, I don't know the specifics on on civilian casualties, but this this is a war situation and unfortunately that's a a reality for the situation we find ourselves in and we do everything we can to mitigate risk associated with that. The the Haitian task force in Vectus Global, I'm confident they're performing the same measures.
▶ 1:52:25I'm out of time so you go back.
▶ 1:52:27I'm going to recognize myself for questioning now. Uh I want to begin by just saying this. I I have found it amazing how much support I've seen by many of my colleagues saying 100% support uh for uh all of this work going on in Haiti when Haiti is not developing uh nuclear weapons. They weren't attacking the United States of America in in ways with drugs and other things like Venezuela and Iran had been doing year after year, decade after decade. But 100% support there. That to me is just incredibly ironic.
▶ 1:52:55Uh I want to start with questions about the MSS and then we're going to go to the GSF. So just very plainly, US put a billion dollar, probably over a billion dollars. Canada committed about half a billion dollars to MSS. Where did the 1 to one.5 billion dollars go? Because Kenya did not give us what was I'd have to go back and and get you exact figures on that, uh, Mr.
▶ 1:53:21chairman, but uh my understanding is a lot of it uh went to lo logistic support that we were providing to to the operation to the department of war and their
▶ 1:53:33How much do you think they paid each of the Kenyan service members? I want to say it's the service members are accepting in the order of 32 $33
▶ 1:53:46in total of the billion dollars the service members uh stipen of that was about 33 million.
▶ 1:53:54It was about 1448 per per individual or just under that. The vast majority went to logistics, aerial movement of of personnel and equipment, and then sustainment, the the food, the the health care, the hospital.
▶ 1:54:08I'd like to see the ledger of what Kenya uh grifted off of the United States of America for this off the American Can you provide us with the ledger of
▶ 1:54:20Yes, sir.
▶ 1:54:21Perfect. Um, I want to move to uh the current situation of what's going on right now. Uh we've talked a lot about the MSS already. So going to one of the questions that was asked already, is it the case that these uh gangs are creating child soldiers?
▶ 1:54:36Yes, sir.
▶ 1:54:37How big of a problem are child soldiers? Under 18 soldiers?
▶ 1:54:40Uh massive. Half of the gang composition is comprised of child soldiers.
▶ 1:54:45Very good. Thank you for sharing that with us. Um not good, but thank you for sharing the information with us. uh as you look at uh the TPS, which is a big part of the conversation, do you anticipate uh those that return uh to Haiti as a result of of any ending of TPS uh being a part of the solution to make Haiti better?
▶ 1:55:06Yes, I I would uh say so, Chairman, that uh you know, you have people going back that have training or have matured uh in the United States and and weren't part of the gang situation. TPS decimated their police force will
▶ 1:55:22Yeah. So
▶ 1:55:23the ending of TPS bring people back.
▶ 1:55:25Yeah. And hopefully they there there'll be employment opportunities for them in the security forces, both the police force but also the military that the the Haitians are going to be.
▶ 1:55:35As I made the point earlier, uh it was so much of a problem for Haiti that they had to go to making people come and receive their paychecks in person because so many of them were receiving their paychecks by direct deposit and they were off in the United States of America and they were not in Haiti doing their police work. Uh I want to know a little bit about the strategy of what's going on here. There's this as we look at the force of Chad uh Sri Lanka, Guatemala, Mongolia, El Salvador, Jamaica. I think that makes up about all of it. Uh are these going blocktoblock?
▶ 1:56:05Yeah, that that's a good question sir. So the concept is clear, hold, build, right? So we we are focusing on the highest density and concentration of gang elements in clearing those elements and then very critically holding which as you know previously the force was unable to do. Uh so holding those you know those areas with persistent presence and then bringing in the build component which is integration with Haitian security forces.
▶ 1:56:29Chad is the largest group. Did you say build component? Is that the word?
▶ 1:56:32Build. Yes sir.
▶ 1:56:33Build. Partner with Haitian security forces and ensure that they can sustain
▶ 1:56:38Chad the largest group there. Who's the fighting force? Who's the hold force? Chad Sri Lanka Jamaica El Salvador. Who's who? So we've designed it as you'll appreciate very much like a military operation. It is a military operation. So we have areas of operation, three critical areas of operation with battalionsized battle space owners. So Chad has the west department, Porta Prince.
▶ 1:57:01Sri Lanka is responsible for the RT Bonite where the gangs also are very entrenched and then Kotvoir will come in and take the center department uh which occupies which the town of Mirab is.
▶ 1:57:13How many high-v value targets have you identified for targeting? Not that you've hit yet, but necessarily
▶ 1:57:18Yeah, I'd be happy to give you specifics in a in a classified session, but um we're at the very front edge. So, right now, for targeting purposes, it's zero. Uh we will change that in the very near future, next 45 days.
▶ 1:57:32I'll be curious to hear more about that one specifically. How much ground has been held so far?
▶ 1:57:37So, we've uh just built two critical forward operating bases. One of those is the base fairier which is just across the street from the US embassy. We're thrilled to have you there in the next week or two. That's that's a massive footprint uh that was previously a Haitian military base. We've now expanded into a critical stronghold uh that the gangs held previously in lower Delan. This is critical. It's between the seapport and the airport.
▶ 1:58:03Uh and we expect to expand in the future, the very near future on the north side of the airport and then to the outlying provinces. Happy to give you those details on a classified setting.
▶ 1:58:12Very good. Thank you for the information on that today. Thank you for your testimony. And we will go to Representative Jackson next.
▶ 1:58:19Thank you, Chairman Mast. Thank you for panelists for being out today. And thank you, Ranking Member Meeks. The Trump administration's immigration policy has drawn some level of criticism for appearing to apply different humanitarian standards to different While it moved quickly to admit white South Africaners as its stated policy from South Africa where there has been no evidence of any brutality
▶ 1:58:49or They classified them as refu refugees based on claims of racial persecution. It simultaneously sought to terminate temporary protective status for hundreds of thousands of hardworking Haitians despite Hades ongoing political And I must say we've had some participation in that by abducting one of its presidents recently.
▶ 1:59:19This reflects a selective approach to refugee and humanitarian protections that is difficult to reconcile with a consistent application of US asylum and refugee principles. The question is, what objective criteria did the administration use to prioritize refugee emissions for white South Africans while seeking to end TPS protections for hastens facing extraordinary violence and state collapse? Mr. Jose
▶ 1:59:53representative I would say first I think there's a big distinction between TPS and uh asylum or refugee status refugee or asylum the individual needs to be able to show that they're being singled out for persecution based on race, religion, ethnicity, uh political opinion, something like that. And can't
▶ 2:00:16TPS is a temporary status saying uh you that it's inconvenient to send somebody back because of an earthquake or a hurricane or something.
▶ 2:00:26If you can answer the question, I understand the background, but if you can answer the South Africa refugee question, the the standard there would be the the refugee standard. TPS does not use that standard. So it's it's not a distinction between South Africans and Haitians. It's a distinction between
▶ 2:00:46But the administration made it between white South Africans. Are there no other groups of people in South Africa that could also seek some sort of refugee status? The administration was very clear only for white South Africans. But let's focus on Haiti, which is the real
▶ 2:01:02This is an arbitrary classification as well. people anywhere um that can that are out of their country can claim uh refugee status.
▶ 2:01:13Is it dangerous to for Americans to visit Haiti?
▶ 2:01:18It it currently in terms of our travel advisory. Yes,
▶ 2:01:21it's dangerous for Americans, particularly the Port of Prince part of
▶ 2:01:26Why why is why are we sending Haitians back to Haiti if we acknowledge it being dangerous? uh the the State Department travel advisories that are done are done for Americans and they relate to uh dangers or risks that are particularly applicable to American visitors in another country. Uh that doesn't necessarily apply to the the the population of that country.
▶ 2:01:52And so you can understand for example uh Americans can be at high risk of being kidnapped and uh and extortion uh uh campaigns.
▶ 2:02:02Can be at a high risk of being killed when they return to their home country.
▶ 2:02:06It depends on the part of the country.
▶ 2:02:08But the answer is yes. Correct.
▶ 2:02:10It depends on the part of the country. If if you are in Porta Prince uh and in an area controlled by the gangs, you're at risk of being harmed by the gangs.
▶ 2:02:19So if we could if you get crosswise with them. Yeah. So if the largest city is unsafe, we can also assume that many parts of the other country would be
▶ 2:02:26The um where people are returning so far is is in the north to uh Capian uh which is relatively uh stable. Uh people go to work there and and so on.
▶ 2:02:40Well, if you will in closing, do you agree with the administration's policy of returning ending the temporary protective status for those um Haitians that are in danger of going back home? I represent the administration that adopted that policy. Yes,
▶ 2:02:54you support it.
▶ 2:02:56Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 2:03:00gentleman yields back. At this time, we'll recognize the representative from Michigan, Representative Heisinga, for five minutes.
▶ 2:03:06Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good to see you all. Mr. Kak, I also uh happen to chair the US Canada interparliamentary group. Um and uh we have been having some obviously robust conversations with the Canadians about uh forest fires and a number of other things, not to mention trade. So at some point actually beyond this, I'd love uh to have a conversation with you about uh about that relationship out at a at a different time. So if we can make that arrangement, uh I would appreciate that.
▶ 2:03:36Happy to do it.
▶ 2:03:37Well, great. Thank you. Um, not long ago, in fact, 2021, five years ago, a family from my previous district in Oceanana County in Michigan went to Haiti on a human with a humanitarian purpose, serving with Christian aid ministries uh following a visit to an orphanage in the eastern part of uh Porter Prince.
▶ 2:03:56a husband and wife working as Christian missionaries and their children were abducted and held for over five months uh by 400 Moazo and uh part of the uh Viv Vansam gang coalition and which is designated as a foreign terrorist organization FTO uh which is accounting for I think as you had said to the chairman sorry I think it may have been Colonel uh um Gorowski that about half of those armed gangs are now minors. Correct.
▶ 2:04:27Yes, sir.
▶ 2:04:28Okay. Uh well, in total, 16 Americans and one Canadian, including women and children, were held for a $17 million ransom. And after months of negotiating by US agencies, some of the hostages were eventually released. uh the others uh while their their capttors were distracted uh had a quite a harrowing escape under the cover of darkness and were later recovered by the uh by our FBI in uh in the Haitian bush.
▶ 2:04:56Uh the DOJ finally served justice in December of 2025 when the ring leader of the 2021 abduction was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of release. Uh this story is just one of many that speaks of the criminal enterprises and uh depravity that dominate a small country.
▶ 2:05:14And I have to tell you, in my area, um, uh, within my ch own personal church and within our, uh, our community, both in the, uh, faith-based and non-faith-based area, Haiti has been a, uh, a huge, uh, part of both humanitarian and mission, uh, fields. And, um, a number of adoptions that have come out of there and those kinds of things uh, is uh, is is is impressive. We have people trying to help people.
▶ 2:05:42Uh but we see this lawlessness that has hit Haiti just uh impact so many families both obviously down there as well as uh here in the United States. Um Colonel, the the gang suppression forces mission is uh to have a Haiti that can secure itself. Um and we've heard today it's uh that's quite a lofty goal and far from uh certain or possible in the near term.
▶ 2:06:10I think that's you were before you were cut off, one of my colleagues was asking you about uh uh the contract that the Haitian government has um and you were starting to say that uh this contract is performing a necessary function um because of this FTO and the situation down there. So I just want to give you a moment to let you uh sort of answer that question that had been cut off.
▶ 2:06:35Yeah, thanks for that opportunity sir. I will say you know there are certain things the gang special force can do and things they cannot do based on the mandate. Uh and and one of those do under international human rights law you know we we are gang suppression force is restricted on their ability to do kill capture type operations of highv value targets and frankly we don't have the robust intelligence capabilities needed to do that effectively. So, uh,
▶ 2:07:01I I find it interesting uh that the US government nor certainly the Haitian government don't have the uh the ability to get the intelligence and they actually have to employ and use these contractors to go do that. Is isn't that the case?
▶ 2:07:20The Haitian National Police are uh kind of leapfrogging, catapulting ahead in their ability to collect and process intelligence. So it's improving
▶ 2:07:29and there's only a few hundred of them.
▶ 2:07:32That's accurate, sir. We're we're about
▶ 2:07:34really need thousands.
▶ 2:07:36Thousands plural, not not singular. Um okay. So I was we were down in there was a group of us that were down in the Dominican Republic and uh in December and had the opportunity uh to speak to the charge uh Mr. Worster via uh telecom. Um and uh I'm I'm curious at that time uh it was a it was pretty dire.
▶ 2:08:03Are we in a is Haiti in a better situation than it was 6 eight months ago or are we in a worse
▶ 2:08:10We we are most certainly in a better situation now. Uh but any additional assistance will again kind of catapult uh progress. And do you have an estimate and my time is running up here, but uh Colonel, do you have an estimate of what a realistic timeline for Haitian forces to take the lead in securing their own uh sovereignty might be?
▶ 2:08:33I would estimate it to be a two to three years in order for them to grow the necessary personnel, but also train them effectively to take this over. I mentioned at the top uh that Haiti based on its population side size needs about 30,000 security force personnel to effectively secure according to international standards.
▶ 2:08:52Okay. And I I my time is up but I would uh want to lend my voice as well to the chairman's about uh having a better understanding of what happened uh with those uh with those monies that were going into what was supposed to be a uh a security force coming in. So with that I yield back.
▶ 2:09:14Gentleman yields. At this time we'll repres will recognize the representative Kam logger dove for five minutes.
▶ 2:09:21Thank you Mr. Chairman and ranking member Meeks for this hearing today. So, Ambassador Kak, the theme of your government service has been the advancement of democracy and human rights, and from [clears throat] your CV, you have gone to some complicated countries like Haiti. And the fact that you are an experienced Haitian policy veteran dating back to the 90s means that you understand its significance and challenges.
▶ 2:09:49It is part of the Western Hemisphere, part of the Caribbean, close to us. The TPS program has been an economic lifeline to Haiti. The professionalization of the diaspora has made Haiti an essential contributor to our economy and healthcare workforce.
▶ 2:10:06More than 100,000 Haitian immigrants work in the US healthcare in US healthcare, helping fill critical workforce shortages and generating millions of dollars in economic activity through their labor, taxes, and spending. I see that as diplomacy at work. And yet, historically, we have treated Haiti very gingerly. I think that's shortsighted given its proximity to us.
▶ 2:10:31and wonder if it is that we don't care about Haiti because we haven't figured out to control it. News flash, ask France. They don't want to be controlled. Or is it because this is a country of African people? Don't know the answers to that. But what I do know is that we have benefited economically from Haiti and its people for decades while failing to make a comparable investment in its long-term stability. And it is rudderless right now.
▶ 2:11:00It has descended into an unprecedented security and humanitarian crisis and this administration is making it worse by pulling back, leaving a vacuum at precisely the moment when sustained enga engagement is needed. In 2025, President Trump withdrew a $13 million US commitment to the United Nations intended to help combat the very gangs we are discussing today.
▶ 2:11:24Um, so Ambassador Kak, public reporting indicates that the department approved a license allowing Vectus Global to provide defense services to the Haitian government in connection with a reported $52 million security agreement. So, can you at least confirm that the department issued that authorization?
▶ 2:11:45Uh, regrettably, Representative, I cannot. I'm told by our lawyers that I cannot confirm or deny whether anybody has applied for a license or whether we've granted or not granted a license to a particular company.
▶ 2:11:57So is it that you don't have the information or you're not allowed to share the information?
▶ 2:12:00I'm not allowed to share information.
▶ 2:12:03So do you know
▶ 2:12:04by I'm told by law that we're required to keep it
▶ 2:12:08well somebody knows. So could you share it in a classified setting? I I think the question would be for our Bureau of Political Military Affairs that runs the licensing, but I my understanding is that they're not able uh there there are reporting requirements they have with Congress.
▶ 2:12:27I get it. Nobody wants to tell us anything. So, do you know if the license authorization is for one year or 10
▶ 2:12:34I can't comment on them,
▶ 2:12:36you know. So, I'm only ask, you know, some of this has been reported in the news. So, I want to know then um if you even know what's in the security agreement. Does it include things like a performance-based commission for Veectus Global? I'm assuming you probably can't share that either. I'm also wondering how they would collect taxes because part of the agreement and we've heard about it includes revenue collection.
▶ 2:13:06So wondering what that looks like and do they get a commission based on how many how much taxes they collect, but I'm assuming I mean I'm also curious as to who they report to. Um and the reason why I ask is because I mean these are like due diligence questions. So at the very least, can you share what due diligence the department conducted on Vectus Global and its ownership and
▶ 2:13:36I I don't know the answers to most of those uh questions. I would say what what I do know is what the colonel mentioned earlier.
▶ 2:13:46Yes. and is that the this private military contractor does report to a a task force that's headed by the Haitian prime minister that that we know from telling us
▶ 2:13:57the reason why I'm not aware of the
▶ 2:14:00Eric that's and I'm I'm I'm I don't want to have to ask you any more questions that you can't answer or are told not to answer. But it's interesting because Eric Prince is the head of Vectus Global. He's also a longtime ally and donor of the president.
▶ 2:14:14And it seems like once again we are approving licenses to go to friends and family members of Donald Trump when we really should be focusing on how we can have diplomatic engagement to create lasting peace in countries that are important to us that are of close proximity to us. And with that I will yield back. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:14:34Thank you so much. I will just add that under the DDTC's director defense trade controls, they are having requirements that are things such as DSP5, DSP 83s that are requirements not only for brokerage licensing and vetting but also for exportation and approvals in line with ITAR. I'd also note that while Prince is sometimes a controversial issue for many of my colleagues, we will add that we wouldn't have had Shkin Afghanistan had it not been for them or other areas of security cooperations that we had utilized through the state department.
▶ 2:15:05the agencies and various others that successfully carried out not hundreds, not tens, but thousands of successful missions that allowed us to protect our diplomats, protect our dignitaries, and also advance security cooperations. With that, I will recognize the gentle lady from Florida, Representative Salazar, for five
▶ 2:15:24Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Wonderful to see you again, Mr. Kak, and thank you for your service, Colonel Gosski. And you know, I represent the city of Miami, hundreds of thousands of Haitians. We know them very well. We know they're good people. Uh it's been miserable. The political elite that they have had or inherited for the last 100 years. They deserve better.
▶ 2:15:46And they also deserve better in 2010 when the Clinton administration formed something called the Clinton Foundation and received so many funds in order to reconstruct that country and those funds were compromised. So we know that uh the Haitians do not deserve many of the political um situations they have had to face. For that reason I am bringing up the hope help act which is the number one source of formal employment in the country.
▶ 2:16:16They are employing more than 100,000 people. So, I would like for you to send the message to this body, to the United States Congress, Republicans and Democrats, in saying that Secretary of State uh supports the renewing of this program for five years, brings stability, it keeps Haitians at home and we need the signal from state. Can you send that through this committee right
▶ 2:16:43Yes, Representative Salazar. The secretary and the administration support a multi-year reauthorization of hope. We're quite in favor of it. And
▶ 2:16:54what else do you think state could do in order to uh push this body to take this up and give the Haitians five more years of
▶ 2:17:04I think we've been trying to signal that everywhere we can, including in my testimony here today.
▶ 2:17:09Beautiful. Beautiful. So, State Department and the Trump administration is in in support of extending for five years the hope help act. Beautiful. The gang suppression force. We're talking about 5,000 uh effective or men uniform, not all of them Americans. You we are going to be providing some type of leadership. It's a full force. Are we going to be able to arrest barbecue?
▶ 2:17:36What are we planning to do with And for those that do not know, barbecue is the leader of one of the many gangs, but apparently he's more intelligent and he's become been able to sort of have a grasp of the country.
▶ 2:17:51You know, that's a a great question. And of course, barbecue has been on the minds of anybody who looks at Haiti. You know, the the great strength uh that barbecue has developed in in recent years, in the last three or so years, is the development of alliances and our uh one of our
▶ 2:18:07alliances. So he has aligned himself with whom? Other gangs.
▶ 2:18:11Yeah. So two large gang coalitions uh G9 and G Pep allied over the past few years. And now you have 20ome separate gangs who are all lied under this Vivon
▶ 2:18:23and why what has he done? What does he have? Why is he so capable of uniting all these criminals behind him?
▶ 2:18:30Yeah. So it's predominantly influence largely through social media but also influence through uh resources. So money, weapons, etc.
▶ 2:18:39Who gives them those resources?
▶ 2:18:42Yeah, it comes from uh many different angles. Uh weapons and ammunition that come in some cases direct from Florida and New York through the Dominican Republic. They have poorest borders.
▶ 2:18:52Who pays for that? It it's uh they they generate the revenue largely through illegal tolls, taxation. The areas they control, they are the de facto sovereign. So they collect taxes, they exercise, they excise tolls, they control shipments uh you know from the seapport uh from the official border crossing points. So they have massive revenue generation uh thousands of dollars for individual.
▶ 2:19:17Do you think that this gang suppression force 5000 will be able to Is there any way that we can barbecue barbecue?
▶ 2:19:24Can we roast him?
▶ 2:19:26I I I I hope so.
▶ 2:19:29Yeah, I
▶ 2:19:29like you know those pigs that that get roasted little by little. That's exactly what he deserves. And I'm sure that this is going to go viral on social media. That's exactly what the United States forces should do to barbecue barbecue him. Is there any way that we can do something similar? Yeah, we are focused on on retaking the territory controlled by the gains and through that we will suffocate him and his lifeblood.
▶ 2:19:52Are we going to be able to arrest him? Do you think I mean is is there any possibility that we're going to be able to arrest this man and bring him to
▶ 2:19:59It is absolutely a possibility. It's a top objective.
▶ 2:20:02And by when do you think that could happen? It's hard to put a timeline on these things, but I will tell you we will have full operational capability this fall and that's the point at which we will start constricting his maneuver space and then decapitate him since you told me that he is the barbecuing him meaning decapitating the head meaning him and then the rest of the gang organizations may crumble. Okay, my time is I just have one more question for you Mr. Kak.
▶ 2:20:28you know that I sent a letter to you and to Secretary Rubio basically asking for this shell company called Commercial whatever in Cuba and what they do is that they're the shell company for for the Cuban military in charge of human trafficking.
▶ 2:20:44So this is the organization that does business with other countries and those other countries re send money to this shell company and basically what they're doing is that they are in the business of human trafficking human trafficking cub Cuban doctors trafficking Cuban doctors and why do I say that because these doctors are modernday slaves they get percent they get paid 5% of their salary they cannot bring to the country where they're going to be serving wife, kids,
▶ 2:21:14families. They are just slaves. They cannot receive the money. That money that they are earning is deposited in a Cuban bank. Bottom line, modern-day human trafficking. Is there any way that you can put this shell company on the blacklist? And when I say that, why does that happen? Because when that happens, then you will be saying to those countries that legally they cannot send money to this organization.
▶ 2:21:43You have the golden touch to stop this. When could you do this, sir?
▶ 2:21:50Thanks for the question, Representative Salazar. I think you've seen that we uh have been progressively hitting the Gasa entities and certainly the
▶ 2:22:03Yeah. And and
▶ 2:22:04share it.
▶ 2:22:05What I'll have to what I'll have to check is that there are when when we when we hit one of the parent entities automatically the subordinate ones uh become subject to sanction as well. But this is one of our our high priorities is stopping that program of making
▶ 2:22:26basically where where others are renting or you know slave labor from the from the Cuban uh security services. That's
▶ 2:22:34So we absolutely share your desire on this and we've gone after
▶ 2:22:38we've gone after the parent company. So I'll I'll
▶ 2:22:42this get back to you as to whether that individual shell company is
▶ 2:22:46so you're sending the message that those countries cannot be sending any more money. It's no more.
▶ 2:22:50Thank you so much. Chairman, can I can I back? Thank you.
▶ 2:22:54And I just add also when we talk about the influence of barbecue, please note that he was very close to previous president, which gave him a lot of influence. And he pushed it in a way where he would actually say that I'm here to stop what's going on in Haiti. He was also a national police officer for a while. So, he did have influence. He did have leadership. He did have a mentorship. And I think that they trusted in it. But it's it needs to come to an end.
▶ 2:23:18Um, at this time I'd like to rep uh recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Dean, for five
▶ 2:23:26I thank you, chairman, and I thank the chairman Mast and ranking member Meeks for holding this hearing. I thank our witnesses for being here today. As has been described, Haiti is facing is in the middle of one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. Nearly 1.5 million Haitians are currently displaced, according to OOM. 5.8 8 million Haitians, half the population are food insecure, hungry, according to World Food Program.
▶ 2:23:55Vital Health and Social Services collapsing, access to health care inconsistent, schools frequently closed. Ambassador Kix, you testified that the United States overarching uh objective in Haiti is baseline stability. And it seems that while gang violence has exacerbated Hades humanitarian crisis, Hades underlying humanitarian crisis is also a continuation or a cause of the continued violence and instability.
▶ 2:24:24An ongoing cycle of instability that I know you both are interested in breaking. Uh but let's take a look at what has happened. And this started on January 20th uh of this administration. Uh due to the dismantling of USID and other cuts at stake, there have been significant cuts to US humanitarian assistance to Haiti.
▶ 2:24:49Specifically, January 20th when the president was sworn in, uh he ordered a review of foreign aid which c which began an immediate immediate 90-day pause. March 10th, 83% of US aid programs cut. March 28th, the reduction in force notices went out.
▶ 2:25:10Uh, Ambassador Kak, under this administration's watch, lifesaving programs for health care, HIV treatment, food security, and clean water cancelled outright. Some estimates put the cuts at up to 50% of all assistance programs that were in place for Haiti. Yet the department continues to to refuse to provide this committee with a full list of what was terminated despite previous asurances that you would.
▶ 2:25:41Why is that? And when will we get a full accounting of that which has been cut?
▶ 2:25:47Okay. Thank you, uh, Representative Dean. Let me be clear that I think the administration's policy was to continue uh life-saving programs that provide water and food and so on. Uh, one thing I did we have done though.
▶ 2:26:02No, but I'm asking you specifically programs that were cut. That's the reporting that we want. I understand
▶ 2:26:07this is where we need to go back to the the what's left of of USID that has those figures. But but what I want to do is put this in the right context. What the effort was
▶ 2:26:18I have heard the context before. Mr. Ambassador, please.
▶ 2:26:20All right.
▶ 2:26:21We're asking for specific reporting. When will we get specific reporting on the programs cut? You can tell us later or in addition that which you replenished or shifted what was cut. For example, uh it is uh estimated that worth of health commodities uh were let to partially expire. What happened to those things on the shelves? Did the Haitian people ever get those lifesaving things or did we just wind up trashing
▶ 2:26:51Do we have reports? Yeah, I I don't know the answer to that question. I would refer it to the USA ID people,
▶ 2:26:58but I do I do want to get on the record, Congresswoman, that we
▶ 2:27:02No, no, no.
▶ 2:27:03Yeah. Well, you ask me a question as a representative of this administration. You owe us that reporting. Don't ask us to go to USAD. Most of those folks are
▶ 2:27:14The administration owes the answer. I'll leave it at that. Let me go on to the boat strikes. Um, it's an issue I care deeply about. Uh, and the related issues to it. Uh, I know that the administration cares about stopping the flow of illicit drugs into the country. Uh, and the administration's boat strike campaign has the stated purpose of stopping the flow of illicit drugs to the US. Uh, there's a problem with that premise.
▶ 2:27:43The president keeps talking about fentinel on these boats. Actually, there are two problems with it. Um, in the boat strikes, uh, what evidence have you produced, uh, that these were boats carrying illicit drugs to the United States? Where's the evidence?
▶ 2:28:00I think you would put that question to our colleagues from the Department of War who've been carrying out that that
▶ 2:28:06But this is
▶ 2:28:07I do know that they they feel confident that they are targeting the correct uh targets. We have had so far 221 dead, 66 strikes. That's only as of July the 1st. There were four strikes in June alone that killed 16 people. Congress has received no evidence of these extrajudicial killings of the evidence of the drug trafficking. When will you uh in your capacity provide us that evidence?
▶ 2:28:38Department of Defense uh as it is named currently um hasn't given us any briefings either. But you owe us
▶ 2:28:48I can't brief you on something I don't
▶ 2:28:51Do you have any evidence of drugs on these boats?
▶ 2:28:55I think that that is not been the issue. The issue is whether the the people on the boats and the boats are part of the organizations that are doing that. What do you have evidence of that of their organizational ties?
▶ 2:29:10It's these are these are intel driven
▶ 2:29:12Mr. Chairman, the last member went over two minutes.
▶ 2:29:15Yes. Would you answer the question that Miss uh Dean, but at the end of the day, I do sit with the chair and have the gavvel and I be polite and asking for you just go ahead and ask whatever questions you would like.
▶ 2:29:27Thank you. Miss Dean is very passionate, as we all are, about how drugs have impacted our families. And I understand that while she supports this heavily, she also wants to make sure that the intel is correct, as we all do in Congress. I understand your point, which is the Department of War resides with the majority of this. I'm blessed enough to sit on the Armed Services Committee and the Foreign Affairs Committee.
▶ 2:29:49So I have actually received briefings that talks about where the drug boats had actually left from which were known areas of collection points, who was seen there as a target identification doing PIDs and then also what the route was that was distinguished by their actual vectors on the ocean itself. Is that enough? For some, yes, for some no.
▶ 2:30:13But I know that Miss Dean and I have a very shared concern here, which is stop drugs from poisoning our families, from ruining lives, and making sure that our streets are safe. And I know we have that shared concern.
▶ 2:30:27I thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe you could get that briefing shared with the greater larger Congress. Uh, and of course, the false premise that these are fentinel votes makes no sense
▶ 2:30:37And the majority of them are not just fentinel, they are cocaine and others. So, I agree that we need a full brief, but you know as well as I do, Miss Dean, that unfortunately if we don't sit on certain committees, we don't always get the information. I don't get it from financial services. I don't get it from others. Uh, it'd be nice if that was the case, but it's not always, which is why we have our areas of jurisdiction. Uh, with that, I will rep I will now recognize the representative from New York, Mr. Lawler.
▶ 2:30:59Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, the State Department currently lists Haiti as a level four travel advisory and tells Americans not to travel to Haiti for any reason whatsoever and even encourages them to leave DNA behind in the event they do go uh to Haiti. Mr. Kak, can you please share why Haiti is at level four and why is it unsafe for Americans to travel there?
▶ 2:31:27Well, these are determinations made by our consular affairs bureau for countries all around the world. I would say in the case of Haiti, the the factors that have gone into it. Um, one, we've had as as representative mentioned earlier, we've had a number of kidnappings of Americans and being held for ransom and so on.
▶ 2:31:48uh we have very extremely limited consular uh services there because our embassy is uh is so small um and the generalized crime in parts of Haiti. So there there all those different factors that are spelled out in the travel advisory but these are
▶ 2:32:07inclusive of that the lack of a stable government, the gangs running large portions of Haiti. Correct. These are all part of the determinations.
▶ 2:32:19Um, I'd have to go back and look at at what the consular affairs cites there, but uh certainly that contributes to the the risk of being kidnapped and so on, not having a a stable government, having gangs in in charge of areas of the
▶ 2:32:36right? It's okay to acknowledge the situation on the ground there. Uh now when DHS made the determination to terminate TPS for Haiti, did they consult with the State Department at all about the situation on the ground?
▶ 2:32:50DHS does consult with us about country conditions uh both with respect to TPS determinations and uh with respect to that but the decision is their decision.
▶ 2:33:02I understand in that consultation what did state say to the Department of Homeland Security? I I don't uh recall, but I think you can say that. Well, it's not it's not that we say here is what we think about TPS. We say here is the situation on the ground in Haiti.
▶ 2:33:19I would imagine conveyed I I would imagine you conveyed to the Department of Homeland Security that it is unsafe on the ground in Haiti. Correct. I can't imagine that state said it's a safe
▶ 2:33:28take take a look at the human rights report and and other reports that we've done over time that they're they're consistent on that that there's a really big security problem in Haiti. That's why we are standing up the gang suppression force. No doubt about it.
▶ 2:33:42Right. So wouldn't it stand to reason that before terminating TPS we would want the gang suppression unit to do its work and ensure the safety and well-being on the ground? I think you go back to the the beginning of this. So the temporary protected the temporary protected status.
▶ 2:34:06I know what temporary protected status
▶ 2:34:08Yeah. And it was protecting from an earthquake that happened 16 years ago,
▶ 2:34:12right? multiple multiple natural disasters and then of course the of the president of the country uh was inclusive of these determinations as to why TPS was extended but state has a very specific role which is to advise the department of homeland security about the situation on the ground and I can't imagine given that we are setting up a gang suppression unit that anybody at state would have said Everything is
▶ 2:34:42honky dory on the ground in Haiti and let's end TPS. I mean, is it is that the position of the State Department?
▶ 2:34:52No, it's certainly not anybody saying that it was hunky dory.
▶ 2:34:55All right, good. So, over the last few years, uh, the security situation has clearly deteriorated in Haiti and what started as a downward spiral has ended up in a freefall. There's no legitimate government. The gangs are exercising authority over citizens, roads, ports, and much of Porta Prince itself. And the dire situation has resulted in a humanitarian crisis and extreme poverty.
▶ 2:35:19Uh, and since I joined Congress, I've been urging my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, as well as the Biden and Trump administrations to prioritize the problems in Haiti. President Biden oversaw the UN's Kenyanled multinational security support mission, which was an absolute disaster and a failure.
▶ 2:35:37Okay, the gang suppression force has the potential to work because the whole objective is to eliminate the gangs and allow for a stable government to take form and allow for a free and fair election. So, Colonel, can you share how this gang suppression force differs from this Kenyanled mission and why is this the better
▶ 2:36:01Yeah, thanks for the question, Congressman. very important to distinguish the two because they really are two separate entities. The biggest challenge that that we began with was clearly identifying the problem and the problem had been mischaracterized in previous intervention as a criminal problem is fundamentally not. It is a protoinsurgency and we seek uh you know the gang pressure force to attack those those those protoinsurgent issues. So the the the gangs are comprised their uh operations are comprised of four critical elements.
▶ 2:36:31One's arms and ammunition. Two is uh resource flows, elicit resource flows, narcotics, etc. Uh three is safe haven, and four is alliances. Our objectives are to eliminate that lifeblood from the gangs, and we've designed the force to do just that. We have an updated mission. We have very clear and distinct leadership from the last mission. The size, we're five times larger. Uh the structure, it's a militaryheavy structure, four-fifth military, one fifth police. Uh and then finally sustainment.
▶ 2:37:01You know the the the greatest uh burden to the US taxpayer was through sustainment of the previous mission. The UN is supporting sustainment of this mission through assessed contributions.
▶ 2:37:12I appreciate that and and look, we want this to succeed. We want Haiti to be safe for Haitians to return to uh and have a more stable government and elect a government of their own choosing and have a democracy on the ground free of gang activity. Lastly, I would just say in the NDAA last year, we created the office of Haitian Affairs.
▶ 2:37:34I see uh your your colleague stepped away, but this needs to be set up within the State Department immediately and start focusing on what needs to be done uh working with state and uh our uh staff on the ground there and the government of Haiti ultimately to have a more stable situation on the ground. So, I would encourage the administration to get the Office of Haitian Affairs set up as Congress passed in the NDAA. I yield
▶ 2:38:01Thank you so much. I know that many of the members want to wait until the ambassador comes back so you can ask questions. Um, in the sake of saving time and again, I'm giving people extra time because I do think this is a very important issue. I know that Debbie knows how Miss Wasman Schultz knows how important this is being in the state of Florida and knowing how close to our own shorelines it is. Um, and so I definitely want to give her the opportunity to ask the questions as well as for Representative Mfume.
▶ 2:38:27Um, but I'll go ahead and recognize myself for five minutes and address with uh the colonel and that way it gives you guys time if you'll agree. Thank you. Colonel, looking at GS9, looking at barbecue and looking at the gang what could you utilize as a comparison to things that we have encountered like this in the in the past and what strategies were successful?
▶ 2:38:53Yeah, it's it's a really good question and we've we've done a fair amount of comparative analysis trying to identify an appropriate solution. Um, probably Somalia comes closest uh in this regard. Um and you know we built our solution not only through that comparative analysis but also through detailed analysis of previous multinational force failures.
▶ 2:39:13Um and you know the the same themes are are reiterated throughout history and our distinct uh goal from the onset was to ensure we don't uh you complete the same mistakes of the previous missions. And if I may, we've seen where and I I'll bore people with the history. You know, we always want to hit the contractor, the contractor, the contractor, right?
▶ 2:39:37Um I would argue that Lewis and Clark actually was a contractor as well who mapped out America and we didn't have issues whenever it was to our benefits. And we've certainly seen where there are benefits, especially being a US Army combat veteran myself, having been a contractor myself in various factions, whether it be with the agency or whether it be with the State Department.
▶ 2:39:58There are certain permissible capabilities that we have under letters of authorization or in Iraq for example when you have the CPA coalition provincial authorities that enable us to do things that is not governed by the uniform code of military justice and enables things to be able to come to fruition.
▶ 2:40:14We have to recognize that sometimes in warfare, sometimes in gang terrorist activity strategies or uh anti-gang strategy like this, there are certain restrictions and handcuffs on us that without that we could resolve very I lead that question into asking, what is the current oversight?
▶ 2:40:41Do you feel it's adequate for what we have regarding contractors in Haiti? Because here's what I always am concerned with. I don't want another Nissor Square incident. I don't want another outrage in a country where we actually cause more diplomatic damage and more destabilization. And America's been great at destabilizing nations like Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 plus years. And I certainly don't want us to see a prolonged war again. But I also want to see stability and improvement for the Haitian people.
▶ 2:41:11Do you feel there's adequate oversight and cooperation between the government and these contractors to see this to success?
▶ 2:41:21Congressman, I I do uh you know contractors are a part of conflict. Christopher Columbus was a military contractor. So it goes back uh through the duration of history. There are certainly elements of this conflict that uh the contractors uh and as a part of the Haitian task force things that they can do and execute that are essential and there are elements that have to be done by the gang special force.
▶ 2:41:47There are just there is justification for each of those parallel efforts but they must be parallel and I do think they have necessary oversight structures in place. I would caution using Christopher Columbus given his treatment of the people of Hispanola and noting that it was under the doctrine of discovery under the Vatican that was actually approved by the queen, Queen Katherine of Spain at the time uh and the idea of expansionism and his own doctrine.
▶ 2:42:11He came back and wrote in his diary that the people of this nation do not know the wealth they have and will make great slaves for us. Um, yeah, I'm not exactly a massive Christopher Columbus fan in history, just to be clear. Um, Mr.
▶ 2:42:26Ambassador, I I want to ask, have you seen with the current status of the Haitian government or its transitional peace, cooperation that would give you any type of confidence that we're working towards stability and not just replicating what we've done for a decade Yes.
▶ 2:42:52Um I think the with a couple of uh specifics. Uh we had this transitional presidential council that was set up that was sort of a rotating presidency. Um some of the people on it were tied up with gangs. Some of them were very corrupt. They were keeping their position simply so they would have immunity uh from prosecution. that is not the kind of government that gives anybody any kind of confidence of stabilization or anything else.
▶ 2:43:22Thank you.
▶ 2:43:23Uh happily that despite an effort that they made to displace the prime minister and and prolong their their tenure, that didn't happen. They're gone. uh the prime you know who's not he's certainly not an elected individual but he he seems to be very dedicated in his mission which is to have an election and get somebody else elected.
▶ 2:43:50He's not he's not purporting to run for uh for office not not a dictatorship style and someone who wants to see the success of his nation which is what we all want with uh running over just a few seconds if I
▶ 2:44:04You know Haiti [snorts] is very important especially to us in the great state of Florida but it's significantly important to me as the only member of Congress who went and traveled over to Haiti in April of 2024 and conducted rescues. um one of those rescues which was uh 10 individuals out of an orphanage. Uh the second rescue which was 13 people out of a missionary. We wish that we could have gotten more.
▶ 2:44:26But also I was blessed to be able to work with the Tim Tibo Foundation, another great Fidian to get out 59 mentally and physically disabled children that barbecue and his gangs wouldn't murder but would take their food and their medicine to watch them slowly die. This is the type of barbarism that we can't accept, especially this close to our own shorelines.
▶ 2:44:47And while this is one of multiple rescues that we've been a part of, and I was very thankful to the Dominican Republic and their government for their support running out of Porta Plata, Dominican uh Santa Domingo and other areas, we need more cooperations. We need Congress to have better reporting and briefings. and we need to have the information so that we can use the tools that we have here, which I know is near and dear to all of my Florida colleagues to try and make sure that we can support the efforts.
▶ 2:45:15With that, I will now recognize the gentleman from Maryland and I apologize for the additional time, but you will get as well uh representative for me.
▶ 2:45:23Thank you very much. Uh Mr. Chairman, my thanks to you and to obviously our two witnesses. Um this is a tough tough matter. I spent three hours at the Pentagon yesterday trying to better understand a number of things that we are and are not doing and had briefings, I'm sure, Colonel, with some of your colleagues there. Let me just say this about Haiti. I have a deep affection and affinity for the country of Haiti.
▶ 2:45:53Their 235 year history is replete with instances where they continue to overcome great odds. And our history with respect to them has been hands on, hands off. We didn't see it. Let's not do it or let's put it off. And so our treatment of Haiti as a government has been temperamental. It's been periodic, but it's never been sustained to the extent that we in fact are trying to find a way to make sure that the foundations that need to be there are there. They've got a rich history.
▶ 2:46:23I mean, it was 1791 that slaves who did not get to America were dropped off there and put together their own revolution against those who were enslaving them. It took them three or four years, but they won. They pushed back the troops that were coming in from Napoleon, the quote great Napoleon, sent his troops there with an arm, a martyr across the off right off the shore of the uh the capital.
▶ 2:46:53threatening to invade and Tusant Loverore who was the leader of the resistance beat Napoleon you know they don't talk about that enough with Napoleon's history but he was defeated there turned around and went back to France and then France in turn sends uh another big group of ships to come in and blockade Haitian ports for the next 10 years and then impose something on them called financial indemnity which means you got to pay us in order for you to do business off your shores is all those kind of crazy things.
▶ 2:47:23In 1915, President Wilson had to send troops there because of the barbaric nature of those persons who had overthrown the government. And I think most of you know that from that point on Claude Doc, Papa Do Duvalier ruled with an iron hand. He killed, murdered, tortured people. When he left, his son Baby Doc came in and did the same thing.
▶ 2:47:48It was so bad that by 1988, people were being hacked to death going to vote. Pregnant women being hacked to death with machetes. So, this captured the world's attention, but it still took us several more years later to get involved. In fact, many of us argued with President Clinton at the time, you've got to send in Marines to stabilize what was really a torture and a massacre. So, our Marines went there, they restored the the government.
▶ 2:48:17Uh and then there were attacks on the government because we couldn't stay there. So my point here is that this sort of violence that we've seen in Haiti did not start with barbecue, but he has found a way to make it his sort of torture and his sort of intimidation. We know after that u um the earthquake came, we realized that the former president in 2021 was assassinated. We've seen all sorts of crazy things take place since then.
▶ 2:48:46I don't know to what extent the CIA is providing Colonel Yu or others with intel with respect to what's happening at that border in Hispanol where the Dominicans are on one side and where there's a lot of back and forth trafficking or whether or not we're even monitoring it. But my sense is that this guy barbecue has found a way to impose tariffs, if I could use that term, uh and and and just outright fear in the minds of people so that they're paying him.
▶ 2:49:16So, two quick things and I'm going to shut up. Temporary protective status is ended. I was here when it began. And it began because of some of the things that I talked about earlier that people there were being killed left and right and nobody really wanted to to pay any attention to it. We've got to find a way to extend that. I've written to the White House. We're going to continue to push back and push back.
▶ 2:49:43Unfortunately, the courts uh did not side with those people who are trying to extend it. But there are 300,000 Haitians here. If we sent them all back tomorrow, you can bet a good number of them will be killed and tortured because they will be seen as Americans coming back or forced to come back to that country. So, I I don't know to what extent uh Mr.
▶ 2:50:06Ambassador, you're prepared to talk about your position on temporary protective status and the extension of it, but I'd be welcome to hear it. Well, I think as we uh mentioned earlier, Representative TPS of course is a is a determination made by the Department of Homeland Security. Um
▶ 2:50:32Well, yeah, but they're not here. This is not past the hot potato today. I'm just trying to get your sense as an individual about whether or not we should be finding a way to extend it
▶ 2:50:42Yeah. Look, what I've have seen with other countries in the region where we've had TPS and and so on is that it's it's not the 300,000 all go back at once. It's quite a number of the TPS beneficiaries have
▶ 2:50:57no Homeland Security said they're going to move the great dispatch to get as many out of this country as possible. So that's the reality what they've said. And when you say that, you have to say to every person who's here, some of whom have families and most of whom have families and raised their children. now we're going to take you out of your neighborhood, send you back to Haiti so you and barbecue can figure out what happens when you get off the plane. That is not the way the United States of America should be proceeding on this.
▶ 2:51:26So when I asked I'm assuming that you don't want to go beyond your orders here and give me your opinion, but you have to have some opinion and I would hope that people outside of the White House have opinions also. We can't be complicit in murders that are going to take place as a result of trying to throw 300,000 people out of communities here in the United States and assume they're going to be okay when they get off the plane. I yield back. Thank you for the extra time, Mr. Chairman.
▶ 2:51:57Thank you so much. And I appreciate reiterating the history of violence that Haiti has faced and how this isn't a new issue and has plagued that nation for quite some time. I will just also for the sake of stating it the same way that I would never speak on behalf of the people of Maryland as you wouldn't speak on behalf of the people of Florida.
▶ 2:52:18It's difficult when the State Department isn't able to respond to things because these are decisions made by other departments like Homeland Security and like the Department of War. Yes, we have personal opinions, but you know as well as I do as an elected official, sometimes our personal opinion of things comes secondary to our constituency. And so I I know it's a very difficult position to be put in. Um, and so I I I do appreciate that, Mr. Master.
▶ 2:52:43At this time, I'd like to recognize uh an excellent member, the gentle lady from Florida, Miss Wasserman Schultz, who I know will have a series of great questions regarding the people of Haiti and her constituency, which I believe makes up a quite a significant amount of those. And so, uh I recognize you for five minutes, but please feel free to uh go over as well.
▶ 2:53:05Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see you up there, a fellow Flidian, and appreciate your kind words. Um, I first I I do want to yes acknowledge highlight that I represent one of the largest Haitian communities in the United States of America. And I I do, Mr.
▶ 2:53:22Chairman, want to just make a correction to an erroneous statement that Chairman Mast uh made before I arrived at this hearing when he said that the terminated TPS for Haiti was only designated because of the 2010 earthquake. The most recent design redesignation and um Mr. Chairman, if I can ask unanimous consent to submit for the record the 2021 designation of Haiti for temporary protected status in
▶ 2:53:49Thank you.
▶ 2:53:50That most recent designation from the Biden administration cites quote serious security concerns, social unrest, human rights abuses, crippling poverty and lack of basic resources. To say nothing of the fact that the humanitarian situation now is just as bad or worse if after as after the earth earthquake. Um, I mean, if if an earthquake is the only valid reason for TPS to be extended, why hasn't Venezuela been redes redesated? For example, they just got hit by two seven plus earthquakes.
▶ 2:54:20Um, that having been said, um, Mr. Kak, you've indicated here that and acknowledged Haiti is not safe. Um, it's dangerous, particularly the capital. Um, you vaguely referenced uh capation uh as being potentially safe where people are going back to.
▶ 2:54:40I would no sooner want to be deported to um than uh than I than a Haitian with TPS here would want to be deported back to their country and not be able to return to the place that they were from.
▶ 2:54:58Um, and particularly given that the country is absolutely dangerous, as you've acknowledged, the only explanation for sending people back to Haiti knowing it is dangerous, knowing it will undermine the mission and lead to more death is evidenced by the personal animus that the president seems to have for the Haitian people. Um, I I think the president has shown a whole lot of that despite all the testimony about countering gangs.
▶ 2:55:22The Secretary of State and other members of the president's cabinet have made clear that mass deportations are their number one priority. And I mean, unless you're talking about self-enrichment, which is also ranks right up there uh with the president's priorities, your job is to stabilize Haiti. Are are those missions in conflict? Is it possible to stabilize Haiti while sending 350,000 people back there? Mr. Mfume just indicated correctly.
▶ 2:55:48the the president has said and Department of Homeland Security has said they are planning on rounding up 2,000 Haitians who have no longer have TPS a day and sending them back to Haiti. So, um it is going to be a massive effort to deport all 350,000. And you know, I know that ripping Haitians from their jobs and citizens kids uh that that'll be the administration's priority.
▶ 2:56:15Uh that's an unacceptable situation and it's one that we should not accept. Um uh Chairman Mills, I I would commend to you legislation that I am working on and about to introduce that would require that there be consultation with the Department of State and consider states recommendations about the conditions on the ground in a country to factor into whether it's appropriate to revoke TPS for a particular nationality. So, I we'll send that over to you.
▶ 2:56:44I'd love to ask you to consider
▶ 2:56:46so much and obviously it's very important to get hold of government
▶ 2:56:49Thank you very much. Um Mr. Kak, I I also I have strong disagreements. Shifting gears here with this administration, but I want to highlight something important that the State Department did do last week. For the past three years, I've advocated for the release of Cuban artist and political prisoner Luis Manuel Otto Alcantara. And I'm grateful that he's been freed and brought here to the United States. Uh, there are still hundreds of political prisoners in Cuba, including including Michael Castillo Perez, and I'll work with anyone to help set them free.
▶ 2:57:19So, I want to share some quotes from Cubans. Quote, "We are locked in cages." Constant loud noises, crying, screaming all around. I hear the sounds of guards punching, the clanking of handcuffs, screaming horribly as they hit him. I have asthma. I can't breathe. Small meals that arrive cold and water I would not give a dog. I've not seen the sun for approximately one month. A trauma that will take a long time to race. Erase if it's even possible.
▶ 2:57:50Mr. Kak, what kind of government would treat prisoners this way? Inhumane conditions, no due process, limited contact with the outside world.
▶ 2:57:59The Cuban communist government,
▶ 2:58:02right? Um, also our government because I think you should know that those comments are from Cubans here detained by ICE. And the reason that Cubans are being held by ICE for months on end, sent to random countries in Africa where they're tortured or left for dead across the border in Mexico is that the Cuban regime refuses to accept deport deportation flights. Correct.
▶ 2:58:25They accept some.
▶ 2:58:27Very few. Very few. That's why we passed the Cuban Adjustment Act and why President Biden offered humanitarian parole to Cubans and Haitians. The same benefits that allow Luis Manuel to walk free today. Unfortunately, this president, our current president, simply believes that all Cuban, Haitian, and Venezuelan immigrants, even those who pass background checks, earn work permits, and secure legal status, are nothing but criminals. That's outrageous.
▶ 2:58:53just as outrageous as you seem to indicate that the Cuban regime, which does treat their people just like I described, but unfortunately this current administration does too. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my
▶ 2:59:08Thank you so much. Um, Ambassador Kak, I know you have a plane to catch. We do have a member who just came in from Ohio. Uh, Representative Miller, if you have the time for five minutes, I will keep it to the five minutes.
▶ 2:59:22At this time, I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Ohio, former military marine veteran, Representative Max Miller, for five minutes.
▶ 2:59:30Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh, thank you, Ambassador. I'll I'll try to keep it quick. Um, it's probably been a long morning for you, [clears throat] so I'm just going to get right to it. Haiti is and has been plagued by endemic corruption, gang violence, and narcotics trafficking for decades. The earthquake in 2010 only exacerbated these underlying issues. Since the country is so close to the United States homeland, this chaos has prompted multiple United States interventions to restore order. All this instability has led hundreds of thousands of Haitians to flee.
▶ 3:00:01There are many estimates out there that claim that there are anywhere between 700,000 and 900,000 Haitian migrants living in the United States. And although we all can understand why they do not wish to reside in Haiti, they cannot remain in the United States forever. So it follows that the United States Congress as well as the federal government writ large has a vested interest in seeing some semblance of stability in Haiti.
▶ 3:00:25Naturally, the UNled multinational security support mission was a nearly 1 billion1 billion dollar failure. Excuse me. I had to look at that number again. Uh that allowed Haitian gangs to expand their control over their country. I hope that the new gang suppression force is more successful. But even it has been in place for almost a year. And Haiti, well, it still looks like Haiti. I don't need to tell you this, but nobody on this committee or in Congress wants to see another United States intervention. That's why we need innovative solutions.
▶ 3:00:58You both are going to help us explore how to avoid and figure out how to stabilize this troubled country. So, absolutely no pressure, gent but appreciate you being here. Ambassador Kak, under UN Security Council resolution 2793, the special representative was required to produce a strategy with concrete timebound benchmarks no later than 9 months after adoption. That deadline passed three weeks ago on June 30th and no strategy has been made public. Was it delivered at all?
▶ 3:01:28Are its benchmarks genuinely measurable and will you commit to providing them to this committee?
▶ 3:01:34Yes, sir. My understanding is that uh the special representative did provide the UN security council and the standing group of partners uh such benchmarks on uh June 29.
▶ 3:01:45So they they exist. Colonel Gorowski talked about them a little bit and I don't see any reason we provide them to you. I'm not sure of that. I don't know what status they
▶ 3:01:59Yeah, Kirk, I trust your word and I I kind of knew the answer to that already. I just wanted uh for the people and the American people and everyone to hear uh that you are compliant and transparent and that you are willing to work with the committee, which I am grateful for. So, thank you for that answer. Uh, last thing for either witness and then you're off the hook and I'll [clears throat] get out of your hair. Uh, with my remaining time, I'd like to just briefly hear from both of you to understand what success looks like, but I'm more interested to hear what you think failure looks like.
▶ 3:02:25What does future of Haiti look like after a mission failure and what does it mean for the United States? And please, if you can, you know, be very candid. Uh, you know, this is up for our constituents and there has been a lot of misinformation uh about this uh context and topic. I'll take a stab at it. I mean, when we came in and reviewed this to begin with, one of the options we looked at was, okay, can we just put a fence around it and say that we'll never be able to fix this place.
▶ 3:02:54The cost of doing that is astronomical. Uh there's no way to it's so close to the homeland, there's aside from the human cost, there's there's no good way to do it. So we we really cannot fail uh to to succeed in in this mission.
▶ 3:03:11Uh what I would say success looks like is the gangs lose their ability to control and dominate uh big parts of Haitian territory, particularly the vital infrastructure, the airport, the ports, the roads that interconnect the those with the with the cities so that people can start to do business and and get on with a with a normal life. So that's part of success.
▶ 3:03:39But the other part is getting a Haitian government that people have that they feel they elected and have can have some confidence in that's been absent for some time. It's also having a Haitian security force that can hold those gains over time. Uh we put a lot of money in over the years, but the one thing I've never seen was Haiti ever have a security force that came anywhere close to the the size and the capability that they that they really needed.
▶ 3:04:07and then they start relying on gangs for things and you end up back where we are today. So that would be my my vision of what success looks like. But failure is that you end up with with gangs basically taking over a failed state and operating running drugs, running human trafficking, um exporting uh all manner of chaos in the region and directly to the United States and a huge massive outflow of of additional
▶ 3:04:38people who would be fleeing that chaos. So that that's what we don't want to see.
▶ 3:04:43Thank you very much. Colonel, you can speak, but I'm over my time and I just want to be conscious. So,
▶ 3:04:49so just lastly, you know, failure is very much this protoinsurgency tipping over into an insurgency. That is a worst case scenario. You know, 2009 Afghanistan, we had uh a ratio of security personnel to population that was about 108,000 people. Um we we can't see that in Haiti. you know that is uh incredibly too much of a contribution. So uh there are four elements of of the threat that have to be neutralized.
▶ 3:05:18I mentioned arms and ammunition, uh illicit revenue generation, safe havens and alliances. Success for us is the removal at this from a security standpoint of all four critical elements of that gang lifeblood.
▶ 3:05:31Awesome. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Very much appreciate your time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I go back.
▶ 3:05:35Thank you. I want to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and for your service and the members for their questions. The members of the committee may have additional questions for the witnesses and we will ask you to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length and limitations. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.