▶ 0:18:20>> this committee will come to order. We are holding a hearing to discuss urgent federal funding needs for families harmed by the recent natural disasters. This is the first hearing we have had since the election. Some things will look different next year.
▶ 0:18:37One thing will not change and it is my commitment to working with senator collins to keep doing the important work of this committee in a bipartisan manner despite any destructions thrown our way. There is too much at stake to throw up our hands. We have to wrap up our fiscal year 25 bill.
▶ 0:19:00I remain committed to working together to complete that process as quickly as possible in a manner consistent with the bipartisan bills, which we have all put so much effort into. Back to the subject at hand.
▶ 0:19:14We will have two panels, senator jon ossoff and tillis will speaker that we will hear from officials at the department of transportation, small business, agriculture, housing and urban development, and federal emergency management agency. We also received an updated emergency supplemental request from the white house which offers a roadmap but it is just a start.
▶ 0:19:45We know it will take full time to assess the needs of our communities impacted by the hurricanes and other natural disasters and resources required to recover. I hope we could take what we hear today and act swiftly in a bipartisan way to provide relief. There is a long history of members coming together quickly in the wake of tragedy. Everyone of us knows our states have needed help after disasters before.
▶ 0:20:16We will need help again. When disaster strikes it should never matter who's in the white house, majority, which governor is asking for support, or how anyone voted. You don't argue over whether to put out a fire, how much water to use, or how many people to save, you roll up your sleeves and get help out the door, as much as needed as fast as
▶ 0:20:46Possible. There are a lot of people in our country needing help. This is one of the longest times in my memory that we have gone without congress providing disaster funding. That is unacceptable. It is well past time. The many disasters we have faced over the past two years. We have seen devastating wildfires and the utter destruction in maui. We saw a typhoon hit guam last year.
▶ 0:21:15We have seen historic flooding in vermont and deadly tornadoes in several of our states. There's the ongoing effort to rebuild after the key bridge collapse and the two hurricanes that recently tore through the south with catastrophic effect. It is clear that hurricane milton and helene were devastating. The damage is coming into focus.
▶ 0:21:41We could see a road to recovery more clearly, it is a long one and it will take serious federal support. There are communities without power and clean drinking water. There are miles and miles of roads and bridges washed away. Families are wondering if they will be able to return home. How they could recover from the loss of crops and mark.
▶ 0:22:11More than that, how the entire city or community will rebuild. Especially those communities that thrived on toryism. People are desperate for answers, help, hope. They are looking to congress for action. We cannot let them down, not now, not ever. We come together to perk -- promote a bipartisan supplemental. We need to replenish fema's disaster relief fund.
▶ 0:22:43It is running on fumes. We need more funding for the department of transportation's emergency relief program. When washington state had a bridge collapse it was critical to our recovery and it is critical now for rebuilding in reopening the key bridge. Not to mention the roads washed out by helene.
▶ 0:23:04We need funding for community development block ramp, recovery program which will help families get a roof back over their heads. Some communities have been waiting two years whether any disaster funding is coming their way. The needs are piling up. The longer we wait, the more rent will stay high for everyone and those communities whether you lost your home or not.
▶ 0:23:33We need funding at the department of agriculture to support our farmers who lost a season's crop. We must replenish the small business administration's disaster loan program. They make it possible for renters, homeowners, businesses to get started on things like rebuilding, reopening. President biden and members of both sides of the aisle have worked tirelessly to get people the help they need.
▶ 0:24:00This committee will get everything they need to make sure we fulfill our observations to get money out the door. Funds are exhausted. The backlog is growing. 60,000 applications already. I appreciate the work of senator tillis and senator warner to craft a bipartisan bill on this. It was incredibly frustrating to see their bill blocked by a senator last week. We are not giving this up.
▶ 0:24:31I want to underscore that. Delay is not harmless. One that families and communities will be forced to bear for years. Businesses shuttered, jobs lost, farms bankrupt, houses overtaken by water damage and mold. Communities unable to reopen. Because they cannot afford to stay.
▶ 0:24:58People forced by desperation and necessity to take out predatory and high costs. In one final point, in times of crisis, it is actively harmful when political leaders spread disinformation about relief efforts. The blatant lies we sare repeated this past fall particularly in the aftermath of hurricane helene do nothing to help.
▶ 0:25:29It undercuts trust and importantly it discourages people from getting the help they are otherwise eligible for. I know and trust members of this committee, republican and democrat are committed to getting accurate information out there to help as many people as possible. I urge everyone to listen closely to this discussion and let the weight of the work ahead really sink in.
▶ 0:25:55I hope after this discussion we will be able to work together in a quick, bipartisan way to get a supplemental that truly meets the challenges our communities are facing. Thank you.
▶ 0:26:06Vice Chair Collins: Thank you, chair murray. I want to begin my remarks this morning by commending chair murray for her bipartisan leadership and hard work during the past two years. This hearing is a great example of her approach.
▶ 0:26:30Vice Chair Collins: It demonstrates her affective commitment to carefully reviewing budget requests and it was scheduled very quickly so that we could meet the needs of our nation. Really exemplifies the bipartisan leadership that she has demonstrated. I look forward to continuing to work closely with her.
▶ 0:26:58Vice Chair Collins: I want to thank our witnesses today, particularly senator tillis and senator ossoff for being with us. Senator tillis and I have lost count of the number of conversations we have had about his state's needs following the recent horrific flooding in western north carolina. I look forward to both senators sharing their perspective with our committee.
▶ 0:27:30Vice Chair Collins: From the wildfires in the west, flooding in the northeast, drought throughout the planes and hurricanes in the south, it seems no region of the country has been spared from destruction caused by severe weather. Maine's coast was hit by storms that wiped out portions of our states.
▶ 0:28:04Vice Chair Collins: In bailey island last january, I heard from many fishermen, lobster men and women that it was the worst storm damage anybody has ever experienced. The state of maine estimates that it took out 50% of our fishing infrastructure.
▶ 0:28:35Vice Chair Collins: They should not invade federal efforts to help them. That goes for everyone, regardless of political beliefs. Like many of my colleagues, I was angry by recent reports that a fema supervisor directed relief workers to avoid florida hurricane victims homes that displayed trump signs.
▶ 0:29:00Vice Chair Collins: This outrageous act stands in stark contrast to the very purpose of disaster relief and the trust that we have placed in the agency. There needs to be an inspector general investigation to help ensure all of those responsible for playing politics with vulnerable people's lives and homes are held accountable.
▶ 0:29:28Vice Chair Collins: We must ensure this discrimination and indifference to suffering could never happen again. Turning now to the nearly $100 billion request that we received earlier this week, unsurprisingly, the largest request is for fema's disaster relief fund.
▶ 0:29:52Vice Chair Collins: This provide the necessary resources for the individuals and families affected by disasters all across our nation. Every state in the nation has had a disaster declared in recent years. Including several communities affected by last year's winter storms.
▶ 0:30:19Vice Chair Collins: The disaster relief fund is rapidly nearing exhaustion with less than $5 billion in the fund today. The catastrophic impact of hurricanes helene and milton have already cost more than $7 billion in immediate response funding even before recovery work has begun in earnest.
▶ 0:30:52Vice Chair Collins: We must replenish the fund so fema could continue to respond to disasters affecting any of our states. While fema takes relief, the small business administration and the departments of transportation and housing and urban development work to rebuild critical infrastructure and help communities address
▶ 0:31:23Vice Chair Collins: Long-term recovery challenges. Today we will also discover the multiple disasters facing our farmers and rural communities. Many farmers are facing an economic crisis. Many commodity prices have significantly decreased. There has been a major increase and input of operational costs.
▶ 0:31:55Vice Chair Collins: I've heard from farmers in maine who are struggling tuesday afloat. They are doing all they can to sustain operation but many are being forced to cease operating. Maine alone has seen more than 600 firms shut down in the past decade. Once we lose these farms, most often they are gone forever.
▶ 0:32:25Vice Chair Collins: They have the resources needed to produce and protect our nation's supply. Throughout this hearing it is focused on the need for disaster response. I would be remiss if I did not point out that one of the best ways that we could help our communities is past the full year appropriations bills. This year, our committee came together and passed 11 of the 12 appropriations bills.
▶ 0:33:00Vice Chair Collins: Six of the bills are reported unanimously. They address critical development and infrastructure needs. Support our farmers and protect our nation. They have languished on the senates calendar. I hope that we could reverse this approach in the next few weeks.
▶ 0:33:30Vice Chair Collins: We work with members on both sides. In the next congress we must double our efforts to restore regular order to promote transparency, have bills enacted prior to the start of the physical year -- fiscal year and give all members a voice in appropriations bills. I look forward to our discussion today. Thank you.
▶ 0:33:57Chair Murray: I will introduce our first panel of witnesses. Today we will be hearing from our colleagues, senator jon ossoff from the great state of georgia. Senator thom tillis from the great state of north carolina. Both of their states are reeling from the recent hurricanes and I appreciate both of you coming to share what you have seen and heard about the challenges and needs we are facing. We will begin with your testimony. Senator ossoff, we will begin with you first.
▶ 0:34:27Sen. Ossoff: Thank you for this opportunity to brief the committee on the dire conditions faced by georgia farmers in the aftermath of hurricane helene. Georgia farmers in neighboring states are suffering deeply and congress must proceed urgently to pass disaster relief by the end of the year. George agriculture was devastated by this hurricane.
▶ 0:34:57Sen. Ossoff: I respectfully urge the committee to swiftly send the full senate and disaster relief bill that includes vital assistance for georgia farmers who are in acute distress and who are the backbone of george's rural communities and our state's economy. Hurricane force winds and torrential rains destroyed fall crops still in the field. Not down herbs that growers spent decades growing.
▶ 0:35:29Sen. Ossoff: 1 million and a half acres of timber land. In addition to the agricultural devastation georgia suffered severe damage to the power grid, housing, roads, other critical infrastructure. Every commodity produced in georgia has been seriously damaged including poultry, cotton, timber, beef cattle, peanuts, tobacco, soybeans, nursery crops, dairy.
▶ 0:36:00Sen. Ossoff: The georgia growers association reports that 48,000 acres of pecan orchards were damaged with a loss of nearly 400,000 trees. Pecan growers like scott hudson, fifth-generation grower, whose family runs a cleaning and processing plant fees -- faces 50-60% crop loss and 20%-30% tree loss of older trees that will take 10-20 years to
▶ 0:36:31Sen. Ossoff: Replace. They have lost 85% of their 800 acres of trees. They won't be able to save a single tree from the first orchard they planted in 2007. Georgia poultry federation reports 495 poultry houses took damage including 295 that were completely lost.
▶ 0:36:55Sen. Ossoff: Van wooton, the county commissioner who has raised chickens for 31 years saw all 10 of his chicken houses destroyed. Many with birds still inside. He isn't sure whether or not he will be able to return to raising chickens. The university of georgia estimates vegetable producers lost 25 percent-30% of the fall crop. Tj's grandfather started farming in 1964.
▶ 0:37:23Sen. Ossoff: They grow green beans, peppers, cucumbers, more. Due to the storm, they expect to sell less than 30% of their normal crop. Blueberries makeup 35% of the loan portfolio of the local bank. A full quarter of the plants are broken off and blown over which will also hurt years crop.
▶ 0:37:51Sen. Ossoff: I emphasize again 1.5 million acres have been damaged. We are projected to have lost 500,00 bales of cotton. The numbers are staggering. This isn't about numbers. It's about families in rural communities. Without our help, the simple fact is many of these family farms will fold. They may fold soon.
▶ 0:38:22Sen. Ossoff: They are deep in the red. They are under immense stress. If they go under, our rural communities go under. The local tax base is destroyed. The rural way of life in georgia is disappearing altogether. We know what we need to do. My colleague, senator tillis and I are here before you.
▶ 0:38:47Sen. Ossoff: A democrat and republican urging speed to achieve this essential goal, I hope the testimony to the bipartisan action before the end of the year. We must refuse the temp tatian to delay or to get dragged into politics. We must swiftly pass disaster relief. Hit by natural disasters the last several years are counting on all of us.
▶ 0:39:18Sen. Ossoff: I'm so thankful for chair murray advice chair collins for the privilege of being before you today.
▶ 0:39:23Chair Murray: Thank you so much.
▶ 0:39:27Sen. Tillis: Chair murray, vice chair collins, friends and colleagues, I got up this morning to review the prepared statement by my staff. I'm convinced I couldn't get through it without shedding a tear. I will have to submit it for the record.
▶ 0:40:01Sen. Tillis: 500,000 businesses affected in disaster declared areas. 5000 miles of road. This is north carolina statistics. 5000 miles of road including almost five miles damaged and impassable for likely a couple of years. 1300 public bridges damaged.
▶ 0:40:31Sen. Tillis: 160 three water and sewer systems damaged. 20,000 farms, disaster declared counties with $3.4 billion in damage. This is a storm unlike any we have seen in our nations history.
▶ 0:40:51Sen. Tillis: Nearly category one hurricane force after several days of drenching rain just a few days before. If you eliminate some that were technically declared disasters, if you only account the landmass that has devastation like you have seen in asheville, big creek, canton, I have thousands of people in harm's way.
▶ 0:41:29Sen. Tillis: I went to the floor last week just to face one problem. Let me back up. Back in august, senator shots came in and said I hope you will support me on the supplemental. I said count me in. I have no doubt that by the end of this season I will have to come to you and ask your support.
▶ 0:41:55Sen. Tillis: Actually, as 99 of you were last week to get the small business administration. I had one objection. I don't think that my folks in north carolina and georgia, where both of my children were raised, florida where I was born , they don't need tears, they need action. We not only need action in the way we normally respond, we needed action in a different way.
▶ 0:42:28Sen. Tillis: I was born in florida, raised in new orleans, I have seen storms in my life. I sighed hit mississippi on my way to new orleans. The topology of the coastal plains, you know what you need to get fixed. Within two years you could get most of the infrastructure done. That's not what we have in north carolina.
▶ 0:42:57Sen. Tillis: We have several river basins that flooded entire towns. Asheville just got drinkable water a few days ago. The storm hit 54 days ago. I have a community there that might be without power until march. The media has moved on, the damage, it is impossible to conceive, even with what I'm saying today. I invite any of you to come there and see it.
▶ 0:43:28Sen. Tillis: I will submit my formal testimony for the record. We have to do something differently. Let me give you an example of what people in florida, my home state are doing right now. They are being told by fema that parts of florida got hit by milton, parts of florida got hit by hoeing, parts -- helene, parts of florida got hit by debbie.
▶ 0:43:58Sen. Tillis: Could you imagine being told you have to establish between that utility pole and debris with milton, helene. They are not having to distinguish between telephone poles, because debbie was a little bit outside the window, you have to distinguish that trash if you are being reimbursed. Is that really what we want to tell the states and local governments that's how we do local recovery?
▶ 0:44:29Sen. Tillis: To be able to be able to have fema recovery? There are communities we won't get to in six months. I think you all for taking on the appropriations task. I intend to put another unanimous consent request together and have another discussion with the junior senator from kentucky. I will fight for the people affected in north carolina and states that I have lived at. We have to act.
▶ 0:44:58Sen. Tillis: We have to look at paycheck protection program, we have to look at employee tax credits, we should be instructed by covid to recognize this is a long-term recovery unlike we have ever seen. We could learn from it or we could regret it later when some of my western cities dry up. That policy suffers from your appropriations task.
▶ 0:45:25Sen. Tillis: I fully support the request for $100 billion. That is only the beginning. We have to react differently. This might be the first but it won't be the last, we owe it to the american people to do better. Thank you.
▶ 0:45:42Chair Murray: Thank you senator tillis. Thank you both of you for being here today. We will have our second panel of witnesses come forward and moved to their testimony.
▶ 0:46:02Chair Murray: While they are coming forward, let me introduce them, we are joined today by secretary of transportation pete buttigieg, small business administrator isabel guzman. Administrator xochitl torah small. Secretary of urban development, adrian todman, and deanne criswell. These agencies are on the frontline of our nations disaster response effort.
▶ 0:46:30Chair Murray: We are grateful for all of you for joining to share your perspective on work and needs ahead. We will begin with testimony from each of you and moved to our senators for questions. Sec. Buttigieg if you are ready we will begin with you .
▶ 0:46:49Secretary Buttigieg: Thanks to all the members of this committee for the opportunity to speak with you today along with my colleagues. A month ago I was in north carolina and tennessee visiting some of the communities impacted . I saw entire lanes of interstate 40 demolished and collapse. Heavy rainfall likely exacerbated.
▶ 0:47:17Secretary Buttigieg: I spoke to families, small business owners, community leaders about how this storm impacted their lives and livelihood. About what they needed for the short term and the long haul. I met with first responders who are working tirelessly with people in those communities as they contend with the loss of homes, businesses, and life. In the weeks since, the biden harris administration has had well coordinated support to the communities devastated.
▶ 0:47:49Secretary Buttigieg: Working alongside state and local governments, nonprofit groups and volunteer organizations in the ongoing response and recovery efforts. We have been working to combat and increasingly unequivocal part of 21st century life, the rapid spread of falsehoods that we call misinformation and disinformation.
▶ 0:48:10Secretary Buttigieg: Across digital media which included the work of the aviation administration which acts two facilitate response and recovery while keeping our airspace safe. The U.S. department of transportation through our federal highway administration emergency relief or er program has delivered $187 million in funding for communities in north carolina, south carolina, tennessee, and virginia. To support immediate needs.
▶ 0:48:41Secretary Buttigieg: These funds are being put to immediate use to get roads and bridges repaired and disruptions in the meantime. We have seen how they are facilitated recovery, helping open U.S. 276 in greenville county and continuing the ongoing work between north carolina and tennessee to restore access to these critical roads.
▶ 0:49:09Secretary Buttigieg: As valuable as this work is, the present reality is that our department will soon lack the funding to address additional needs resulting from the recent hurricanes and other prior disasters, as well as needs from future storms or other disasters. As well as needs from future storms. That's because the amount of funding being requested from numerous states far exceeds the amount of money that is available.
▶ 0:49:32Secretary Buttigieg: Helene recovery alone will require extensive investment to permanently rebuild roads and bridges that were destroyed by the storm. Meanwhile we continue to have unmet needs in alaska, hawaii, maryland, and nevada to rebuild transportation infrastructure after recent disasters. With each passing day we are growing closer to a situation where this department will not be able to provide partial funding for eligible projects.
▶ 0:50:03Secretary Buttigieg: Consider communities in arkansas and oklahoma that have been impacted by floods, tornadoes, wildfires, the francis scott key bridge in maryland, we currently lack the funds to permanently rebuild the infrastructure in these communities and many others across the country even though they are eligible. President biden has requested $8.1 million for the program.
▶ 0:50:32Secretary Buttigieg: These funds would cover the backlog of projects waiting for funding as well as the needs for states from hurricane helene and milton. The federal highway program president biden has requested $57 million for the federal transit administration relief fund to assist transit agencies impacted by and supported local response efforts during helene, milton, and other disasters.
▶ 0:51:02Secretary Buttigieg: There is an urgent need for congress to have supplemental funding to support communities across this country grappling with disasters. This would not be the first time congress has risen to the occasion. We sought after hurricane katrina, wilma, in 2005.
▶ 0:51:22Secretary Buttigieg: Now the american people including the communities in north carolina, south carolina, virginia, tennessee, florida, and georgia are counting on congress to act. We know investing in resilient infrastructure could save lives and reduce the cost of rebuilding. U.S. dot prioritizes this in its discretionary programs.
▶ 0:51:48Secretary Buttigieg: We are deploying the first ever formula and discretionary funds dedicated to making our infrastructure more resilient. We are seeing the reality of climate change in real time. Weather events deemed once in the century coming along every few years. It is not a fluke, it is not a coincidence, it will not go away.
▶ 0:52:11Secretary Buttigieg: We need sustained funding to make sure our communities have what they need to rebuild bridges to make them more resilient in the face of extreme weather and other disasters. With your partnership, I know we could deliver the critical support needed right now for our transportation infrastructure, farmers and ranchers dealing with loss and for families and small business owners.
▶ 0:52:39Secretary Buttigieg: Thank you for welcoming me here today. I look forward to working beside you.
▶ 0:52:47Chair Murray: Thank you very much guzman.
▶ 0:52:51Ms. Guzman: Thank you so much distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to appear today to discuss the disaster loan program and the pressing need for additional funding. Disaster loans have been an important resource to help communities impacted recover and rebuild. They offer direct loans to homeowners, businesses, and private nonprofits to help communities get back on their feet.
▶ 0:53:23Ms. Guzman: They cover disaster losses not covered by insurance and other sources with low interest long-term and deferred payments and no interest accrual. Harvard university research shows early access makes a difference in communities receiving more and those communities receiving more funding are more likely to experience sustained growth.
▶ 0:53:46Ms. Guzman: In coordination with fema, other federal agencies and state and local entities, and help small businesses prepare for respond to, recover from unmitigated disaster. Sba approved 27,000 disaster loans and 160 disaster declarations across the 50 states and territories behind each alone is a story of a resilient american seeking to rebuild and recover.
▶ 0:54:15Ms. Guzman: In asheville, I met with business owners whose businesses remain close while they repair physical damage after devastating flooding. In tampa, I met with owners of a popular local restaurant who lost power and inventory and were closed for several days. I met homeowners dismayed to find out they lacked coverage for floods seeking to rebuild, cleanup, and stay in communities.
▶ 0:54:46Ms. Guzman: The agency's disaster loan program has been unable to meet demands since october 15. After a surge in demand led sba to exhaust all available subsidy funding for disaster lending. Hours after disaster declarations, staff were on the ground ready to help survivors. Sba has been working around the clock for timely information to minimize confusion and delays.
▶ 0:55:16Ms. Guzman: Sba has continued to process loan applications, provide support, and communicate directly with survivors while we wait for congress to appropriate the funding to originate new loans and dispersed us funds to the 2500 disaster victims already in the queue. Currently supporting more than 400 total disaster declarations, managing a portfolio of 2.5 million loan.
▶ 0:55:46Ms. Guzman: We have 3500 employees that have been deployed supporting loan operations, on the ground we have deployed hundreds of staff across 18 different states to operate 100 and 75 disaster centers. A lack of sba funding has impacted recovery across the nation. Sba helps those disaster survivors who could not access credit elsewhere.
▶ 0:56:15Ms. Guzman: Homeowners, renters are delaying actions and resorting to higher costs of capital. This means there are challenges in delays with rebuilding neighborhood. Homeowners have been unable to access low interest rate loan to eradicate mold so they could return to their homes. Survivors who lost their car cannot purchase a new one. Small businesses cannot replace damaged equipment or inventory.
▶ 0:56:44Ms. Guzman: Our disaster impacted communities need access to loans and we hope congress will work quickly to restore funding for this important program. The budget request for the 2.2 9 billion in funding. The administration's request update the sba disaster loan request that it has been making since the maui wildfires.
▶ 0:57:10Ms. Guzman: The 2.2 9 billion includes disaster lending the agency needs to process these loans, review for fraud, service, and for -- help survivors on the ground. It will allow sba to help hundred million in loan offers to more than 2500 -- 12,500 approved borrowers.
▶ 0:57:36Ms. Guzman: Sba will continue to process 48,000 pending loan applications and continue to support new applicants as they come in the door. Sba expects it will reach significant disaster levels given the widespread damage including in areas not identified as flood zones. We have worked closely with the house and senate appropriations committees to provide timely updates.
▶ 0:58:07Ms. Guzman: In addition to publishing the statutory monthly reports. A series of mega-storms show how quickly disaster balances could change. Americans do not know where the next disaster will occur but helping our federal citizens recover from disasters is a responsibility we all share. Sba looks forward to working with you to fortify sba's critical lending program into the future. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:58:38Ms. Guzman: >> thank you chair murray, vice chair collins. They could to the appropriations committee for convening this crucial discussion on how we show up I ask that you refer to my written testimony for a more complete account of the devastation experienced in recent months every time I visit a disaster site, I'm struck by
▶ 0:59:09Ms. Guzman: How close we all are to experiencing homelessness, going bankrupt, or relying on a food bank for nourishment. No one deserves the punishment of a storm or fire. Those impacts might include losing your home, business, if you are a farmer, losing the chance to pass your farm on.
▶ 0:59:38Ms. Guzman: In the government across political lines, agencies and levels to deliver water and food and rebuild road, we all agree disaster recovery is an essential role of the government. I think we could also all agree that government could be cumbersome. I want to talk about those kinks in the system. They slow down resources of whole communities need so desperately.
▶ 1:00:09Ms. Guzman: Timeliness, flexibility, fairness must be the northstar of disaster assistance. That comes down to doing all we can to keep farmers farming and support people in rural communities as they rebuild. I hope we could spend some time talking about operations, how we get resources out the door most quickly and deliver it to those who most need them.
▶ 1:00:37Ms. Guzman: Recognizing the smallest operators are essential to that chain and are often the most at risk of going out of business after a disaster. When government delivers resources in a way that is timely and fair, we are able to be there for families, businesses in their time of need. We are able to build an economic bridge so they could continue to feed us all.
▶ 1:01:04Ms. Guzman: Whenever I think about the storms of 2024, I think about a family owned and operated pecan farm I visited in south carolina. Hurricane helene destroyed about 75% of the farmers crop and half of his trees will never produce again. His sons had just invested in a processing facility to support their harvest.
▶ 1:01:29Ms. Guzman: The facility was going to cut transportation costs and add value to a whole community of farmers. Now there is not enough nuts to process. What struck me most is while they were waiting out the storm and worrying about the impact on their own future, they put on rain jackets and went into the storm. They were also members of the volunteer fire department.
▶ 1:01:57Ms. Guzman: They were making sure before anything else that their neighbors did not lose their lives. That is how crucial community is to disaster response. Usda wants to be a part of that community. Disaster recovery and assistance work is work that we are deeply honored to do. In agriculture you cannot plan for every possible impact.
▶ 1:02:25Ms. Guzman: Getting money quickly to those pecan farmers, growers, producers like them is our responsibility. Let's work on that together. I look forward to your questions area -- questions.
▶ 1:02:39Deputy Todman: Good morning. It is important to be here at the table because without the $12 billion that we have requested, the homes of thousands of -- upon thousands of americans will never be rebuilt.
▶ 1:03:05Deputy Todman: Communities will have a housing shortage the likes they have never seen. Since I added to communities they will be gauging the work ahead in asheville in the work of -- the wake of hurricane helene. To learn about what they needed. Similarly, I went to florida and saw the damage and heard from the people.
▶ 1:03:36Deputy Todman: I visited maui after the wildfires. Mayfield kentucky after the tornadoes. Time and time again I heard the same thing. How much they needed their national partners to help them recover. I'm confident that through the unified federal efforts we will mitigate damage done to communities and rebuild with resiliency.
▶ 1:04:01Deputy Todman: With congress support hud has given funds to drive the long-term recovery to make sure those communities are better prepared for when the next disaster strikes. We do this by ensuring rebuilding standards and trust the hazards they are likely to face in the future. By providing necessary funds to make their future safer as well.
▶ 1:04:31Deputy Todman: These funds could be spent making homes and other buildings like hospitals stronger and implement communitywide mitigation project, engaging the people in building out what those plans need to be. For instance, in louisiana, 7 million dollars of recovery funds were used to build a new apartment building that could withstand very high winds.
▶ 1:04:58Deputy Todman: That building was 90% complete when hurricane ida hit in august of 2021. It was practically unscathed. It was soon completed and was the only rental units available for some time after that event. In lincoln city, oregon, they supported the construction of a 44 unit apartment complex that house wildfire survivors.
▶ 1:05:26Deputy Todman: In oklahoma, after a tornado devastated the mobile home community, disaster recovery funds were used to build back 220 homes to help not just full sewer survivors of the tornado but other community members as well. That is the work that these funds do. It is so important for this congress to act with urgcy. We must do better.
▶ 1:05:56Deputy Todman: We have a moral obligation to protect people. It takes four years from the point of an event for there to be housing substantially built after disaster. That is far too long.
▶ 1:06:15Deputy Todman: That is why in addition to having the $12 billion available to help people rebuild, we also need our disaster recovery program to be authorized so it is therefore americans over and over again so we could plan shortly after an event that local and state leaders could plan as they are responsible what those long-term recovery needs must be.
▶ 1:06:44Deputy Todman: I feel it was just yesterday that I had to on behalf of my family pulled together a care package, batteries, clothing, toiletries because their home had been severely damaged.
▶ 1:07:06Deputy Todman: It would've been great to share with them that there was a program they are ready to make sure their home could be built and their neighbors home as well. When I was in asheville I met a Mr. wilson, who had a business. He came up to me, he was a little nervous. He opened up a little piece of paper. I don't know how he did the research but he did. He said we need help.
▶ 1:07:36Deputy Todman: I need your disaster recovery fund not just for my family and home before my business. To bring my employees back. Let me say, Mr. wilson, if you're watching this, I am here for you, we are here for you and for every other person who has been impacted by these disasters so you could help rebuild your communities. Thank you. That concludes my testimony.
▶ 1:08:08Ms. Criswell: Thank you for the opportunity to testify today regarding fema supplemental funding request and the disaster relief fund. I would like to begin by regressing -- showing the dedicated leaders joining me at this table and to the broad network, the private sector nonprofits and others who partner with fema every day.
▶ 1:08:37Ms. Criswell: We worked tirelessly to protect and assist americans during disasters. Emergency management is built on this collaboration, it is their partnership that is essential to the daily effort. Before continuing, I would like to address the recent issue about the fema employee who had given instructions to disaster assistance team that were completely at odds with the fema mission.
▶ 1:09:09Ms. Criswell: When my team informed me of the situation it provided me with the visual evidence that this employee had issued instructions for her team to avoid homes with the specific political affiliation, the leadership team commended and directed that we immediately terminate this employee and we did.
▶ 1:09:30Ms. Criswell: In a statement I released the same day of the termination, I repeated to the american people that this type of behavior and action will not be tolerated. We hold all employees accountable if they violate our standards of conduct. When a disaster strikes, it is collaboration that enables us to respond swiftly and effectively.
▶ 1:09:59Ms. Criswell: The spirit of partnership has been especially crucial responses of hurricane helene and milton. Fema has authorized 10,000 personnel in collaborated with 30 federal agencies to ensure critical services and life-sustaining resources reach the hardest hit communities.
▶ 1:10:20Ms. Criswell: For example, through collaboration with our partners, people -- fema mode lies -- mobilize teams that included 1500 personnel, 110 canines, 90 swift water resources to conduct rescue efforts.
▶ 1:10:38Ms. Criswell: We also pre-positioned 9 million meals, 10 million liters of water, 300 generators, worked closely with the department of health and human services to deploy medical capabilities including health care site assessment teams and medical taskforces. These efforts represent the true spirit of fema's mission, to serve and protect every community.
▶ 1:11:05Ms. Criswell: We now faces significant challenges due to increased disaster plan. Fema did receive 20 billion dollars in continuing resolution. The drf has been depleted to $5 billion as of today due to the rising operational need.
▶ 1:11:23Ms. Criswell: This shortfall underscores an urgent reality, the drf needs sufficient funding to handle the scale and intensity of today's disasters, particularly as we face the aftermath of hurricanes helene and milton but also the wildfires and other emergencies. We have 100 open major disasters and millions of citizens relying on fema support.
▶ 1:11:52Ms. Criswell: I work remains vital to communities. The surge in demand has been unprecedented. In just one month we saw over 2.4 million households register for assistance. Breaking record set during previous catastrophic storms. Fema has provided more than $7.8 billion in federal assistance from hurricanes helene and milton.
▶ 1:12:22Ms. Criswell: This includes $3 billion for individual assistance and $1.7 billion for public assistance. These needs have rapidly exhausted our available funds, without a supplemental, our ability to respond to new disasters could be jeopardized. Earlier this year, fema recognized we would need to take steps to implement immediate needs funding.
▶ 1:12:51Ms. Criswell: This process allowed us to focus on preserving necessary funding for essential lifesaving and life-sustaining but required us to pause $8.8 billion in funding for recovery projects across the country. This pause impacted communities across the country. The vital infrastructure and leaving long-lasting effects on it communities capability to build back better and stronger.
▶ 1:13:22Ms. Criswell: As the balance decreases, we are again assessing whether or not we need to initiate immediate needs funding. Our resource needs extend behind -- beyond the drf. A tremendous strain with nearly 74,000 claims filing hurricanes helene and milton. I joined the president and urge legislative action to stabilize the nfip.
▶ 1:13:53Ms. Criswell: It increases debt and interest costs which threaten the long-term viability. It is very clear that mistakes are high -- the stakes are high. They increasingly rely on fema and our federal partners. This is why I encourage congress to fund all agency request, they all support fema's work of helping communities recover.
▶ 1:14:17Ms. Criswell: For instance, cuts to housing programs could leave survivors without access to housing and increase and increase in sheltering costs. Reducing disaster loans limits our businesses ability to rebuild. Such shortfalls not only strain fema with the workload but has coordination challenges with federal agencies resulting in gaps and inefficiencies in disaster response.
▶ 1:14:45Ms. Criswell: Limited funding reduces long-term resilience in affected -- leaves areas more vulnerable to potential disasters and increasing fema's burden. The supplemental request is about ensuring fema and partners can meet the demands. Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I welcome your questions.
▶ 1:15:08Chair Murray: Thank you very much. We will begin a round of five-minute questions from our witnesses. I asked colleagues to please keep track of the clock and try to stay within those five minutes. Let me begin. We have heard from all of you. Your testimony, as well as our colleagues about how the conditions are on the ground. I want to start by asking about impacts if congress were to continue to delay in providing this disaster funding. Secretary buttigieg, I want to start with you.
▶ 1:15:38Chair Murray: D.o.t. Has provided $187 million for estates hit by hurricane helene to address some of the urgent requirements and ensure the safety of the traveling public. That was a critical, immediate step. I understand now the department has less than $100 million remaining for the emergency relief program. If we fail to act quickly, what happens if another hurricane or winter storm hits?
▶ 1:16:02Sec. Buttigieg: In short, we would be unable to say yes either in full or in part to those quick release requests. We work to turn those around in a matter of hours if possible. We have been able to say yes 100% to those quick release funds. That figure under $19.6 million is not just quick release, but the program balance.
▶ 1:16:27Sec. Buttigieg: So in addition to those very quick answers, twice a year, we review the allocations to the fund whether that is for disasters that are recent or ones going back a few years where a community is still recovering. Those would be impacted because it is all the same funding. So very quickly, we would be simply unable to support any of these disasters.
▶ 1:16:46Chair Murray: Thank you. Administrator guzman, in 2024 and 2025, sba received over 280,000 applications from disaster survivors. That number, I understand, is expected to increase in the coming weeks. The sba disaster loan program has been unable to originate new loans for more than 35 days. 60,000 renters, homeowners, and businesses remain stuck in the backlog now.
▶ 1:17:17Chair Murray: Talk to us about the impact of this lapse on disaster survivors and explain why we need to prevent that funding -- provide that funding now.
▶ 1:17:24Ms. Guzman: Sba provides support for those who do not have insurance or are underinsured. These constituents are faced with higher cost of capital or no capital access at all to be able to rebuild their lives. With delays, this further impacts them. I have nearly a billion dollars sitting and waiting to deploy as soon as I get funding, plus the additional 48,000 applications that we are still processing.
▶ 1:17:54Ms. Guzman: $30 million a day is what we approve. If this sustains further, stood -- constituents will not be able to access the program. It is not just businesses. It is homeowners and renting. Ebony percent of our funding goes to homeowners and renters. -- 70% of our funding goes to homeowners and renters.
▶ 1:18:14Chair Murray: Once we do replenish this account, how long will it take for that money to hit inc. Accounts?
▶ 1:18:19Ms. Guzman: We would switch back our systems, from a technology perspective, and hope to get those awards within 24 to 48 hours. However, these are loans. We would need to continue through the process and finalize those two dispersed dollars as fast as 24 hours, two to four weeks.
▶ 1:18:43Chair Murray: Administer criswell, the disaster relief fund plays a major role in helping our communities respond to these disasters. We provided access to over $20 billion. During the cr period and the administration's latest request includes another $40 billion.
▶ 1:19:04Chair Murray: Can you explain how the disaster programs of other agencies impact overall response and recovery efforts and how these potential funding shortfalls for other programs affect fema's work?
▶ 1:19:15Ms. Criswell: These disaster programs work as a whole to help communities recover from disasters. While our program supports specific areas like an individual system, we can give homeowners who are underinsured some funding, our programs are not designed to replace insurance. That is where these other programs really come into play to have a holistic approach to community recovery.
▶ 1:19:45Ms. Criswell: Without the supplemental disaster funding for all of these agencies, it was slow down -- it would slow down recovery and make it more difficult for homeowners and renters or the community in general to be able to move on in the recovery process.
▶ 1:20:00Chair Murray: Let me address this spread of misinformation, disinformation, just quickly. What is the real-world harm if we see this misinformation, disinformation on communities?
▶ 1:20:13Ms. Criswell: One of the things we have to do is make sure people have faith in their government and know the programs , if they are providing them, are going to be there to help them. If we spread information that is inaccurate about what we are going to do or how we administer programs, it creates fear and people don't want to apply for assistance. We need to be able to have confidence that we may -- that people who apply for assistance are going to get what they need and what they are eligible for.
▶ 1:20:42Chair Murray: We know in the past we have seen administration's attempt to withhold disaster funding from states and communities that were affected by some of these devastating disasters. I believe I speak for every member of this committee when I say the spread of disinformation and any efforts by anyone to withhold funds congress has appropriated for the purpose of assisting communities in their time of need will not be tolerated, whether it comes in the form of a front-line worker
▶ 1:21:12Chair Murray: Or the highest halls of government.
▶ 1:21:16Sen. Collins: Thank you, madam chair. Secretary todman, the funds that comprise the disaster funds are awarded to states, to entitlement communities, and to tribes. However, if you look at disasters, they rarely align with those categories.
▶ 1:21:41Sen. Collins: And that raises a lot of concerns for smaller communities who are not going to have control over the funding. Usually, it is going to go through the state, for example.
▶ 1:21:58Sen. Collins: How does hud's administration of the funds take into account the challenges of these smaller communities, encountering delays as they wait for the state to funnel money to them?
▶ 1:22:20Ms. Todman: Thank you, senator. We recognize that was an issue during this administration and it is one of the reasons why, in addition to giving funding to states, we also look to give funding to some of our grantees or pre-existing grantees, at the local level. One of the things we are challenged with is for some of those really small communities. They have never done business with hud before. They have never had to deal with my department.
▶ 1:22:48Ms. Todman: I want to make sure that they are able to execute and have the capacity. That being said, we do rely on our state partners to do the right thing and get that funding to where it needs to be. I look forward to working with you and this committee on better ways we can execute on that.
▶ 1:23:08Sen. Collins: Thank you. Secretary buttigieg, the administration's request includes more than eight alien dollars for disaster assist -- $8 billion for disaster assistance to your department. The vast majority, as you have explained, would be used to help clear the growing backlog of unmet needs within the federal highway administration's emergency relief program.
▶ 1:23:32Sen. Collins: That backlog includes costs incurred such as $100 million for typhoon damage in alaska, to more than $10 million for a severe storm and flooding events in my state, and $7 million of maine's unmet need is from damage that occurred over a span of just a few weeks in december of 2023 and january of this
▶ 1:24:02Sen. Collins: Year. The december storm left 400,000 mainers without power. This is in a state of only 1.3 million people. And it essentially left the western town of farmington completely flooded and isolated for a time. Could you give us a better sense of how the $8 billion was calculated?
▶ 1:24:31Sen. Collins: I know you looked at the backlog, but is there also funding for current or recent storms and upcoming inevitable storms?
▶ 1:24:44Sec. Buttigieg: The figure was calculated based on the known backlog. In other words, we only contemplated those costs that we estimate are already eligible, and the $8.1 billion would cover all of that. It does not speak to future disasters, which in principle would be covered through the regular appropriations account.
▶ 1:25:10Sec. Buttigieg: I would note that level is set at $100 million and it is not unusual for the account to disperse more than a billion dollars in a single year, which is why we often come to congress for more funding. In terms of the breakdown, $4.4 billion is from cost estimates for hurricanes helene and milton . Another $1.69 billion bridge replacement.
▶ 1:25:37Sec. Buttigieg: That is a net of $350 million which was removed from that figure because it is going to be recovered by insurance. Any other recoveries that could happen would also reimburse the program and reduce the total. And then the rest is the backlog $2.3 billion covering disasters in dozens of states, including several in maine that you just mentioned.
▶ 1:26:04Sen. Collins: Thank you. I'm very glad that you clarified the francis scott key bridge. We had discussed that on the telephone, that this is not 100% federal. It will be met with the insurance recoveries. And I think that is a really important fact.
▶ 1:26:28Sen. Collins: I have many other questions for sba on how sba can do a better job in supporting our unique small businesses along the coasts, like our lobster men and are working waterfronts. I will submit those for the record. Thank you.
▶ 1:26:45Chair Murray: Senator tester?
▶ 1:26:49Sen. Tester: I want to thank you for this hearing, for your leadership during your term as chairman and ranking member of this committee. I have a pressing issue to discuss. About the last 16 years, I was recently reminded of a story from about 2013 onwards during those negotiations.
▶ 1:27:11Sen. Tester: Congress decided to add a provision for that ominous bill that would allow monsanto to continue selling gmo products despite a ruling that it could not do so. People referred to this as the monsanto protection act. I was mad. I was upset. I voted against that omnibus in 2013 to show everybody how upset I was, even though I was an appropriate her.
▶ 1:27:38Sen. Tester: After all, we all know monetary policy, the easiest to vote is a no bill on a bill you don't want to pass. The appropriation chair, who is a very strong woman, came up to me at the time in the cloakroom and said, I don't think you really want to be an appropriate her. And I said, why is that? She said because you don't support the committee. We do the hard work. We do what we need to do. We negotiate. And you vote against it. I said, I do want to remain on the committee.
▶ 1:28:09Sen. Tester: The answer is yes, then, and the answer is yes now. Why? Because there is not a better committee dedicated to solving real problems, providing the oversight that is necessary of federal agencies, and responsibly allocating resources. This committee is the best place to have genuine policy debates on virtually any issue. Some of my favorites over the years -- senator rand is not right here -- is a national bio and agro defense.
▶ 1:28:40Sen. Tester: Keeping white potatoes on the waitlist. -- wic list. Dealing with the wild horse population. Truck relations. The future of our sugar program. I could move on. Moving the usda agency to west virginia. Looking back, I do not regret that vote back in 2013. I have feelings about family farm agriculture and the consumer, and a provision that is unconstitutional.
▶ 1:29:11Sen. Tester: I did learn a lesson about the beauty of the appropriations process. You get some wins. You get some losses. When this committee is doing its job, you can count on real debates, unreal issues that are important to americans. Once you won a few arguments on once you lost a few arguments, you should vote for these bills in this committee.
▶ 1:29:35Sen. Tester: This country is better off when democrats and republicans in congress and particularly on this committee can compromise and do their work and set a bipartisan example for the rest of the senate. I think that is more important at this point in time then it has ever been in this country's history, where division is the biggest problem we have in this country -- division among us when we all know we have much more in common than we have that divides us. So I want to root this committee on into the future. You have a lot of really, really important work to do.
▶ 1:30:07Sen. Tester: The folks sitting around this rostrum can do good work. I have seen it before. And I encourage you to do that. I want to speak briefly on a pressing disaster issue in this state and two items congress must include. One is the settlement act. I want to explain why. And the second is an appropriations to continue repairs to the st. Mary's canal.
▶ 1:30:32Sen. Tester: Right before the august recess, I spoke to this committee about a catastrophic siphon failure in the st. Mary's dam, which is a vital part of the bureau of reclamation project. This catastrophic failure is devastating to small towns that rely on clean drinking water. Hundreds of farmers and ranchers rely on that project for irrigation. Sadly, this failure is not a surprise. This is an engineering marvel.
▶ 1:31:04Sen. Tester: Despite solid efforts to keep local repairs to the system, it fell into disrepair. The seconds literally were held together with duct tape and bailing wire. That is why there is no question that congress needs to step up and address this disaster and make the necessary improvements to this system to ensure the next failure is not just around the corner. The goodness is that the legislation that could accomplish this is ready to go. The fort belknap community water settlement act of 2024.
▶ 1:31:38Sen. Tester: The milk river project was a ticking time bomb. For both indians and non-indians , but this in mind, and through their strong leadership, this is part of a settlement plan for the united states. This can contribute to the settlement for rebuilding the singers canal. The bipartisan bill has already been passed by the senate twice. That is right -- twice.
▶ 1:32:07Sen. Tester: Over two decades, I think it has been vetted more than any other bill I have worked on in the 18 years I have served on the senate. It is the right bill for this moment and the right time to get it signed into law with appropriations that continue repairs to the same areas canal. I don't have any questions today for the witnesses. I ask as the disaster packages finalize that folks in this community help address the irrigation disaster in montana.
▶ 1:32:36Sen. Tester: With that, tally-ho, friends, and thank you.
▶ 1:32:38Chair Murray: Senator hyde-smith was to mark -- senator hyde-smith? [applause] thank you, senator tester. You will be missed. Senator hyde-smith?
▶ 1:32:59Sen. Hyde-Smith: I want to thank everybody on the panel that has come today. I certainly look forward to discussions on these issues. With chairman schatz, we have worked very well together. I want to focus on the crisis in this country. I'm going to start with the bottom line up because we do not have a farm bill.
▶ 1:33:25Sen. Hyde-Smith: It is absolutely essential that congress provide emergency assistance for agriculture producers before the end of this year. Even if we passed a farm bill today, under the traditional farm bill structure, systems would not reach the farmers in time. And the assistance needs to be robust and it needs to be implemented swiftly. The third thing is we must address all types of disasters. When I say that, I'm referring to natural disasters as well as market related disasters.
▶ 1:33:58Sen. Hyde-Smith: I'm the former and commissioner of my state, the former chairman of the senate and committee. I have never had lenders and farm credit lenders and bankers to look at me and say we are not going to be able to finance this farm. I have never had that happen until now.
▶ 1:34:17Sen. Hyde-Smith: Senators also off and tillis did a great job -- senators ossoff and tillis did a great job, but we need to focus on market disasters as well, which does not seem to be getting the proper attention. The devastation of hurricane helene's clear, and my heart goes out to those farmers. I have been to north carolina. I have talked to those people. It is devastating.
▶ 1:34:43Sen. Hyde-Smith: It is more difficult, however, to discern market related challenges facing our firm country right now. And I'm talking about a very real crisis rooted in high input costs, rising interest rates, and low commodity prices. The usda's recent 2020 for cost of production reports best illustrates this market disaster. Here is an example of the farm data from the report.
▶ 1:35:11Sen. Hyde-Smith: It costs an average of 800 $95 to produce one acre of cotton in 2024. However, the average revenue generated from that same acre is $569. That is a $306 per acre shortfall loss between expenses and revenues. We all know that revenues must exceed expenses to make a profit.
▶ 1:35:39Sen. Hyde-Smith: Losses like this can add up so quickly. If a farmer planted 3000 acres of cotton this year, that would result in a total net loss income -- a loss of almost $1 million. $978,000 is what that firm would lose. Obviously, nobody can exist under this. You just cannot recover from that. These types of scenario will play across the country for all major crops.
▶ 1:36:09Sen. Hyde-Smith: These depressed prices are hurting everyone. We are talking pig farmers, apple farmers, catfish farmers -- you name it. This year, producers in mississippi and across the country are importing some bashar reporting some of the best yields ever. That is what so hard about this. They did everything right, yet they will go out of his nice if they are not able to secure financing to farm next year. The high cost, the high interest rates, and the low prices is definitely a perfect storm.
▶ 1:36:45Sen. Hyde-Smith: You will not find a lender able to finance a farmer who is that deep in the hole. This like the weather related disasters -- the market conditions were out of them farmer's control. The ad hoc assistance is often misconstrued as congress just responding to damages caused by natural disasters.
▶ 1:37:09Sen. Hyde-Smith: While natural disasters are a common justification for ad hoc assistance, congress also approved market loss assistance because of damaging economic effects. We asked for assistance in the cares act to offset economic disruptions caused by covid-19. Many more examples during times of crisis. They do not have the safety net. Do not have a farm bill.
▶ 1:37:41Sen. Hyde-Smith: The omnibus appropriations act of 1999 provided more than 3 billion dollars in market loss payments for farmers due to low commodity prices. The fy 2000 act appropriation bill provided $5.5 billion to compensate growers for low market prices. The agriculture risk protection act of 2000. Today, american farmers and ranchers are experiencing literally unprecedented working conditions.
▶ 1:38:10Sen. Hyde-Smith: My question -- I am running out of time here -- is to the usda secretary. I so much appreciate the work you have done. I was plead -- pleased at the request of $34 billion. Should congress provide funding for market losses, will you be sure to implement those funds in a smart and effective measure?
▶ 1:38:33Ms. Torres Small: Senator hyde-smith, thank you for your question. Whatever congress establishes, it is our responsibility to deliver. I also recognize that I have spoken with farmers as well who are struggling, particularly when it comes to input costs. As congress makes the hard choices about disaster funding, as well as other economic assistance, in the weight of fiscal conservatism, we have to look deep into which farmers are struggling.
▶ 1:39:01Ms. Torres Small: The same report you referenced does also acknowledge that in the last four years, total average net farm income has been up above the 20 year average, including one banner year. The rest of the years are all as high as they have been since 2014. That means we have really got to dive into those details about who are the farmers who are struggling.
▶ 1:39:27Ms. Torres Small: Having support this time and tracking a future where we are taking on challenges like domestic fertilization production, those market opportunities.
▶ 1:39:39Sen. Hyde-Smith: We are expecting to lose 20% of goods producers with the high cost and interest rates. I do think this is a true emergency and crisis.
▶ 1:39:46Chair Murray: Senator coons?
▶ 1:39:49Sen. Coons: Thank you to each of the ministration officials who testified today. Thank you for your time, your effort. We heard from each of you, the stories of individuals you have connected with and have gone and visited, and from the folks in your agencies that are doing the very hard work of helping the people of georgia and north carolina, but so many other states across our country, recover from disasters. This is one thing that really should bring all of us together.
▶ 1:40:19Sen. Coons: I'm grateful for the work of this committee and your agencies. I have two things I want to mention. Senator tillis in a compelling opening statement said we have to deliver aid differently in response to disasters. Senator murkowski and I have a bipartisan bill that is both bipartisan and bicameral. The are a wide number of cosponsors that would compel a federal resiliency strategy.
▶ 1:40:45Sen. Coons: More than a dozen states around the country, the states of alaska, north carolina, florida, michigan have state resiliency officers and commissions. Fema says every dollar we address in resiliency before disaster strikes spent -- saves six dollars in post-disaster recovery.
▶ 1:41:07Sen. Coons: Could you just briefly talk about whether it is worth having a national resilience strategy and what our country might gain in terms of reducing the damage of disasters, as the frequency and intensity of them seems to continue to steadily rise? >> senator coons, we have seen an increase in the number of severe weather events. Not just the number -- the complexity and the impacts they are costing.
▶ 1:41:38Sen. Coons: It is making recovery harder. I have also seen as I have traveled across the united states where we have invested in resiliency and have seen minimal damage -- proof that that investment makes a big difference.
▶ 1:41:52Sen. Coons: The value of having a national strategy and a single coordinating officer?
▶ 1:41:55Ms. Criswell: I think what we need is more communities to understand this better. You can have a coordinated effort through a national strategy that would help communities develop this.
▶ 1:42:07Sen. Coons: Let me raise one other thing if I could. We are celebrating the 30th anniversary of americorps this year. In response to disasters, americorps members redeploy to help with response assistance in north carolina and in florida. Nearly 500 americorps members have been on the ground in communities. Our former colleague senator blunt was really struck by going to joplin, missouri when they were struck by a tornado.
▶ 1:42:35Sen. Coons: Weeks and months later, americorps members remained on the ground, helping with public housing, with responding to the community, with delivering services. The americorps members have embedded with fema, have worked with local faith organizations, civic and community organizations, helped deliver everything from wellness checks to people who were isolated to a lack of transportation or power access, or who simply need grocery gift cards or access to clean water.
▶ 1:43:03Sen. Coons: The supplementary request is $80 million for americorps. It is a tiny amount out of this very large bill. Just wanted to take a minute and ask if I could, administrator, if you see value in having these americorps members continue to be part of your disaster response teams, helping fix damage to schools and homes and helping clear debris, whether you think this is an urgent piece of helping them.
▶ 1:43:28Ms. Criswell: I talked about partnerships, and americorps is one of our best partners. Americorps teams do things like staff call centers, working the phones. The mission assigned them and bring them into help us in communities. We worked with them seven times in 2024. They are a critical partner to helping amenities and homeowners with they cannot do on their own.
▶ 1:43:54Ms. Criswell: We also partner with them to create the fema core program, where we have hundreds of fema corp. Members who supplement our workforce in times of need in the immunity's, and help us deliver our programs. These programs are critical for the holistic approach.
▶ 1:44:16Sen. Coons: These agencies have unarticulated relationship erect layer indirectly, and I urge you to look at ways americorps members can help expand the reach and impact, if you could. The key bridge is a critical artery not just for baltimore, but the whole east coast. It impacted wilmington as well as our community. There have been folks engaged in that urgent recovery.
▶ 1:44:40Sen. Coons: Why should the federal government pay with some portion of the reconstruction of this bridge. There is one member of the senate who seems to press back on the idea of having the federal government pay to cover the cost of reconstructing the key bridge. Are there other examples of the federal government doing this and is a critical to the timely and complete recovery of the infrastructure?
▶ 1:45:00Sec. Buttigieg: Certainly, we regard this as the sort of disaster that is why we have an emergency relief program. Of them are natural disasters. Some of them are for the construction of the key bridge. This is of national significance when you consider the impact on supply chains. It is something that can happen through no fault of the communities that are directly impacted.
▶ 1:45:27Sec. Buttigieg: I should clarify the numbers I stated earlier to vice chair collins. The 1.69 figure is before we meted out the 350, so the correct answer would be 1.69 plus 350. That principle is we will recover some funding to think through the insurance. This is what we do for any community, and certainly when there is an asset like the francis got key bridge.
▶ 1:45:57Sen. Coons: For better or worse, some of us at some point will be asking for urgent disaster response funding. I think that is a key part of this committee. I also recommend to all of my colleagues the bipartisan bill that senator murkowski and I have. You very much.
▶ 1:46:11Chair Murray: Thank you, senator coons. Senator fischer?
▶ 1:46:15Sen. Fischer: Thank you to the chair and ranking for having this hearing today, and thank you to the panel for coming. Rector criswell, as you know, nebraska saw five separate major disasters declared in 2024. I have heard from communities across the state that it makes lengthy delays due to fema processing and the red tape that takes place in bureaucracies.
▶ 1:46:44Sen. Fischer: Many of these communities are still in the process of recovering from the 2019 flooding along the river. One example that I have recently was in the city of plattsmouth, which backs up against the missouri. The city has waited nearly all of this calendar year on a very minor scope of work change request. These are small rural communities with limited resources. They are really doing the best they can to support their residence.
▶ 1:47:15Sen. Fischer: -- residents. I can appreciate you and your best that they are doing that, doing your best with the resources and staff that you have. The issues I'm talking about here are not ones of manpower. It is not one of logistics. It is paperwork. It is read take. We you commit to working with my -- it is red tape.
▶ 1:47:42Sen. Fischer: Will you commit to working with my office and the nebraska emergency management agency to ensure these impact of -- impacted communities can receive timely responses and are not subject to these really long delays that we know at cost in the long term?
▶ 1:48:02Ms. Criswell: I understand what you are going through. You definitely have my commitment. We recently changed the threshold to reduce some of the burden for these communities. We will continue to work with you on this specific case.
▶ 1:48:29Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Sec. Buttigieg, nice to see you. I have heard from state d.o.t.'s that there is a lack of consistent guidance from the U.S. d.o.t. Regarding the requirements needed for states to adjust by building back better after a disaster. The ability to prevent future damage is imperative.
▶ 1:48:59Sen. Fischer: How is U.S. d.o.t. Ensuring that clear and consistent guidance is being provided to our state d.o.t.'s on resilience eligibility for reimbursement after a disaster?
▶ 1:49:08Sec. Buttigieg: I think your question captures the fact that in many cases it does not make sense to replace something in the exact form fashion it was designed 30, 50, or 100 years ago, especially in the face of increasingly severe, frequent, extreme weather. Our programs do complicate the ability to do that.
▶ 1:49:30Sec. Buttigieg: We will work to make sure not only is there a categorical exclusion designed to cut the red tape for projects that are simple he about replacement, but that there is support for increasing the resiliency of the resiliency of what is designed, including sometimes the significant design change is appropriate, given what might have just been learned. The statute does constrain us in some ways.
▶ 1:49:56Sec. Buttigieg: Often it is possible within the framework of statute to justify those improvements or betterments by showing that if you consider the reduced risk, there is a cost benefit to those improvements. We would be happy to work with you or your team or any other state have spoken with on any specific cases where they are trying to get the right flexibility. We will do whatever we can to support them.
▶ 1:50:20Sen. Fischer: I would be interested in hearing any suggestions you have. I know we are on a short timeframe. To hear any suggestions you may have when you reference the existing statutes that we have to work with now. What can we do in a new congress when we are looking at another transportation bill, to be able to use our resources in a responsible manner, but also to move projects quicker?
▶ 1:50:51Sen. Fischer: If you have specific changes, I be interested in hearing some of those.
▶ 1:50:57Sec. Buttigieg: We would welcome the chance to work with you on that. Should I preview them? I will get back to you on that.
▶ 1:51:04Sen. Fischer: No, I have another question while I have you here. With the major funding event that hit nebraska, n. Requested emergency funding. It took the agency more than three years to release the quick release funds that were there.
▶ 1:51:25Sen. Fischer: These funds that are to be used for priority emergency repair work on federal aid routes -- why isn't fhwa able to reimburse for emergency repairs in a more reasonable amount of time? And again, do you have any ideas on how to make that process go more quickly in the future? I would really like to see that happen.
▶ 1:51:49Sec. Buttigieg: Not familiar with what took place in 2019, before we arrived. What I will say is that our goal and generally our practice in recent disasters is meant to turn around a quick release request in the same day. That does involve working closely with the department of transportation to identify those dollars that are really going to be needed right away and can be used first, versus those that are more appropriate for a semiannual allocation.
▶ 1:52:19Sec. Buttigieg: In both instances, whether we are talking about a foreseeable longer-term expenditure or something where we are talking about slope stabilization or rerouting traffic, something we need right away, that funding is no barrier to those on the ground trying to get that problem solved. I want to continue to engage on any program that can help with that. The federal highway administration is in the process of a full overhaul and revision of the manual that lays out those procedures.
▶ 1:52:48Sec. Buttigieg: I'm hopeful that that will bring additional clarity and refinement to the process that might have helped in the situation you are describing.
▶ 1:52:55Chair Murray: Thank you. Senator schatz?
▶ 1:52:59Sen. Schatz: Thank you, chair and vice chair. I want to thank all of the officials who have the extraordinary job of helping us to recover. I think everyone has a story, a very small, discrete, compact town that was 100% leveled, incinerated. In a matter of hours. More than 100 people died. We are dealing with the consequences.
▶ 1:53:30Sen. Schatz: I want to deal in fact no. -- now. Senator tillis said, the media has moved on from the spectacular and terrifying suffering, and yet people are still suffering. Sec. Todman, how many structures were destroyed in the ohio fire?
▶ 1:53:53Ms. Todman: My team apprise me there were about 4000 residential units. Several shots 4000 housing units. 90% of the impacted area -- Sen.
▶ 1:54:07Schatz: 90% of the impacted area. How many people does it represent? It is about 12,000. One of the things you need to know about lahaina and hawaii generally is you have a lot of multigenerational families, so that the number of people per household is way higher. You have about 12,000 people without a home. How many homes have been rebuilt?
▶ 1:54:36Ms. Todman: We took a lot -- a look at the maui county recovery dashboard. It appears there is just one, sir.
▶ 1:54:46Sen. Schatz: One home rebuilt. 116 permits issued. Over the last 15 months, 16% of the survivors who are housed, but not in their own home -- 60% of the survivors have moved at least three times.
▶ 1:55:13Sen. Schatz: 20% of the survivors have moved five times. The problem is housing. The federal emergency agency did a good job of clearing the debris and making it safe to walk around. The soil is safe. The infrastructure is coming back online. The problem is housing. The way to rebuild a community is cdbg Dr.
▶ 1:55:44Sen. Schatz: I want to make two points. The first is the practical impact of the lack of an authorization. We are currently digging a trench for temporary infrastructure with fema money, in partnership with the county. It is expensive to do anywhere. I get it. But it is really expensive to dig a trench on maui.
▶ 1:56:15Sen. Schatz: It is already expensive and hawaii generally. We just picked the most difficult, most time-consuming, most expensive place to try to dig a trench. As soon as we get the dr money, they are going to have to dig it back up. If anybody thinks a lack of authorization for this program, which we annually put money towards -- it is not as if you are being a fiscal conservative by not authorizing this program. You are just ensuring it is done in a maximally stupid way.
▶ 1:56:46Sen. Schatz: We have a bipartisan bill that could fix this pretty narrow problem. It would not cause a penny of additional federal resources to be spent. It would just ensure that when the two secretaries get together and think about disaster response and disaster recovery, they could do it together and act like smart public administrators who do not want to waste money. They are being forced to waste money because of the lack of an authorization.
▶ 1:57:16Sen. Schatz: So, secretary todman, I'm sorry, I was supposed to ask a question. Secretary todman, I want you to just walk us through what the human impact will be. Set the dr authorization aside. If we don't fund cdbg dr for maui, what will happen to these maui families?
▶ 1:57:36Ms. Todman: I think that at some point there is going to be a need to shut down some of the temporary housing arrangements that families have. Notwithstanding the great attempts by the governor and the maui county mayor, some of those people will leave maui.
▶ 1:58:00Ms. Todman: Some of those folks, if they don't have a home, may be rendered homeless, which is not something any of us want. But inevitably, not having those homes rebuilt means that maui will continue to have an acute housing crisis, which it had even prior to the wildfires. I think the impact will not just be on the victims, the survivors, but everyone who lives in maui.
▶ 1:58:32Sen. Schatz: Thank you to all of you. We are about to hopefully spend some number of tens of billions of dollars on disasters across the country. But as senator tillis said and senator fischer said, and I am trying to emphasize, we don't have to do it on intelligently. I know we are appropriate or -- appropriate or -- appropriaters and not authorize her's. -- authorizers.
▶ 1:58:58Sen. Schatz: We should not spend this anyway that is so clunky that the aid does not get to the people or we spend more money than we ought to. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:59:05Chair Murray: Thank you. Senator boozman?
▶ 1:59:13Sen. Boozman: Thank you for being here. We do appreciate your hard work. Secretary torres small, we appreciate you very much. We enjoyed working with you the last several years. I know you have been out and about as much as everybody, and arkansas at one of our smaller communities, and an even smaller community being there, talking about water problems.
▶ 1:59:43Sen. Boozman: Everyone working together, I think we were able to put together a project that was really the last biggest group of people that did not have water. I think it was 500 families. Those are good things. I know you have worked really hard to do that. I'm a little concerned about usaid and their response to what is going on right now.
▶ 2:00:12Sen. Boozman: You mentioned that agriculture, the 20 year average. The there is no person working in america that wants to be at between your average. Boeing is striking, has struck. All of these different areas we are seeing, they are not asking for a 20 year average. They are looking at 30% increases. I agree with senator hyde-smith it is really dire in farm country right now.
▶ 2:00:44Sen. Boozman: The other thing that I think is unfair -- when we talk about agriculture, the 20 year average, if you are producing cattle, things like that, it is very good. If you are growing something in the ground right now, it is very, very bad.
▶ 2:01:06Sen. Boozman: I have not been around here forever, but I have been around here for a while and I have never been in a situation where bankers are coming and saying if you don't do something, we are not going to be able to, because of our bank examiners -- we are not going to be able to provide the credit that our farmers need. That is not the 20 year average. That is a dire picture.
▶ 2:01:30Sen. Boozman: So I would agree with her from being out in the field with many of you on the committee, as they were home campaigning, being around america. What about the farm bill? What are we doing? How is it coming? But this is really a critical situation. So I would really like for you to talk a little bit more about that.
▶ 2:01:59Sen. Boozman: Again, you were out and about as much as anyone. 10 rural america endure this without significant help?
▶ 2:02:11Ms. Torres Small: Yesterday, I was talking with rice farmers from arkansas and mississippi, and they showed me a graph. Although we continue to work to drive down the cost of food, and we have also seen that reflected in terms of international commodity prices, we have not necessarily been able to stem inflation. But there are still high prices for things like fertilizer. There is a real challenge to retain and pay farmworkers.
▶ 2:02:40Ms. Torres Small: And there continue to be challenges with interest rates. I have certainly talked to farmers who are struggling. I know they are very eager. We are pleased to see both versions of the farm bill. They are eager to see more movement on that, particularly with the dairy cliff in december.
▶ 2:02:59Ms. Torres Small: I am also eager to have a conversation about how we support farmers, recognizing that there is a climate of fiscal responsibility, and diving into those details about who is hurting and would benefit in the short term as well as the long term. How do we build back so we are both supporting existing farmers, but investing in future opportunities for future farmers?
▶ 2:03:23Sen. Boozman: Have you talked to lenders? What did they say?
▶ 2:03:26Ms. Torres Small: I have. They recognize there are concerns about lending in several markets, in terms of commodities but also in terms of specialty crops as well as biodiesel. We, as lenders, know that at the same time there are opportunities for farmers out there. We continue to work to make sure our loans are as accessible as possible.
▶ 2:03:52Sen. Boozman: Sec. Buttigieg, thank you for being here. One of the things that we are concerned about is as we have these disasters in this and that, and we have destruction, and we build back, are we doing it in such a way to make it such that we are going to be more resilient to future situations that occur?
▶ 2:04:22Sen. Boozman: Do you feel comfortable in that regard? More resources or more research that we need to do?
▶ 2:04:27Sec. Buttigieg: The good news is we are taking steps that were not possible before the bipartisan infrastructure law. The protect program in particular. Largely through formula going to states as well as discretionary awards. This is the first ever dedicated federal program. It is north of $7 billion to help with resilience projects. But I believe that the need for resilient construction and reconstruction is only going to grow.
▶ 2:04:56Sec. Buttigieg: As congress contemplates whatever the successor to I ij - - iija is, it will be important to take on board the data points, the early successes we have seen, and the mounting need and likelihood that it may be more acute in years to come.
▶ 2:05:13Chair Murray: Thank you, senator boozman. Senator reed?
▶ 2:05:18Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, chairman. Let me begin by thanking secretary buttigieg for your tremendous assistance with our bridge. We had a major bridge system that connects essentially the east and west sides of a metropolitan area. One side had to be shut and demolished.
▶ 2:05:44Sen. Reed: The secretary has been very, very helpful in providing grant money, about 221 million dollars. Thank you. We really appreciate it. And your personal appearance up there -- I hope you enjoyed lunch in the province. Thank you very much. There is another issue I would like to raise.
▶ 2:06:10Sen. Reed: I have tried to incorporate in the disaster program supplementals -- senator collins and I have been leading the way for many years. For people who cannot keep their home warm in the winter or cool enough in the summer, that is something of a disaster. President biden requested 1.6 billion dollars last year. It was not granted.
▶ 2:06:38Sen. Reed: We are already behind, I think, in terms of preparing for that. Having those issues aside, let me address administered to guzman. -- administrator guzman. Related to the washington bridge disaster, there were a lot of small businesses affected. I thank you and your team for distributing about $47 million.
▶ 2:07:06Sen. Reed: However, I have heard from many of the local small businesses that it was very slow, very timely, very difficult to understand. How can congress help sba provide a smoother eidl application process?
▶ 2:07:24Ms. Guzman: Thank you, senator. We are proud to be able to support those affected by the washington bridge collapse. Sba this year has transformed its lending program under the disaster loan program. We have relaunched a new platform that is now available. It takes about 14 minutes to apply for an sba loan. We have cut down processing from 100 days to 50 days with the investments we put into streamlining and simplify our system as much as possible.
▶ 2:07:54Ms. Guzman: We are on the right track to continue to try to improve the systems and improve the experience for disaster survivors across the country. I will say that as we move toward continuing to help as many of those individuals as possible, recognizing that there are some declines, we are aggressively focusing on reconsideration processes. And making sure a no is not just a final note.
▶ 2:08:22Ms. Guzman: We are able to provide assistance to redirect, reconsider, and support the full suite of small this -- small does -- small business develop and centers. As we continue to track these improvements into the future, our on the ground presence, did ministry defunding that we need to support disasters, is really critical. Soldiers are on the ground, helping people understand those who have difficulties, helping them through that process as quickly as possible.
▶ 2:08:52Ms. Guzman: I will say as well we are trying to implement policy within the administrative authority to simplify our loans, granting that deferment on payment, it also simplifying secured financing.
▶ 2:09:06Sen. Reed: Thank you very much. Administrator criswell, one of the best ways to avoid a disaster is predisaster mitigation. I know your agency has several programs that does that. We discussed my concerns about the difficulty of accessing these programs. Many of the communities will have a plan to go forward. They often get the answer no.
▶ 2:09:41Sen. Reed: What can we do to get this predisaster mitigation programs in place to avoid the difficulties of disasters?
▶ 2:09:52Ms. Todman: -- Ms. criswell: predisaster mitigation is critical. We have made some changes by reducing the discount rate to make it more competitive. Also being able to give additional points through the scoring system on our competitive grants, for those who have never received a grant before, for those who live in areas where they do not have the resources that major urban areas may have.
▶ 2:10:20Ms. Todman: I am committed to continuing to work with you and understand the barriers that these communities are facing, especially those that have the highest risk. Part of our process is now using the community disaster resilience identification to better identify the communities that need additional assistance, to help them be competitive and be able to get critical funding to help them become more resilient.
▶ 2:10:44Sen. Reed: Thank you very much. Thank you, madam chairman.
▶ 2:10:46Chair Murray: Senator murray? >> I have some questions and so little time. I want to use some of my time to make a few comments. That me start with indicating sharing concerns with my colleagues who spoke previously.
▶ 2:11:05Chair Murray: The senator from mississippi, the senator from alabama, and what I expect the senator from north dakota to say -- drought is a damming circumstance in many cases across the country, and especially at home in kansas. 79% of the acres in kansas are under some form of drought. Most of it is severe for the year. We have reduced 79% of our wheat crop.
▶ 2:11:31Chair Murray: We have not had a wheat crop this small since 1961, because we cannot grow our crop. You add that to all the other features of high input costs, low commodity prices, high interest rates, and the damage is real. Drought is -- no disaster is anything easy to experience. We have our share of other kinds of disasters in kansas. Most notably, tornadoes.
▶ 2:12:00Chair Murray: But drought is something that is so discouraging, so depressing -- we have a tremendous increase in the number of mental health and indications in regard to our farming population. I know how it must feel to be a farmer whose great-grandfather succeeded in keeping the farm together, their grandfather, their father, and I should say grandmother and mother -- keeping this farm together.
▶ 2:12:29Chair Murray: Today's farm family, they have this sense that if they did it, why can't I? Drought is this depressing thing that ways on a farmer. I look at the weather, the radar every day to see if there is any hope. I want to stress the importance of agriculture disaster.
▶ 2:12:52Chair Murray: I don't want to say how many years I have been in congress, but I have been on the and committee for the agatha operation subcommittee all of my time here. This is as dire a circumstance as I can see in my time in trying to address the saving of rural america. This is not something we ought to consider unimportant. It is hugely important.
▶ 2:13:20Chair Murray: I will tell you I do think that this committee, the congress ought to be prescribing and giving the department of agriculture specific directions about how act disaster funds-- ag disaster funds should be spent, but with some flex ability to take care of the things we may have missed. I have mentioned you, secretary small. You said something I would highlight for you is important.
▶ 2:13:52Chair Murray: It will seem off point, I suppose. But we are battling osha with new rules with regard to safety for firefighters. Almost 90 plus percent of our firefighters in kansas are volunteers. The osha rules and regulations that they are proposing will eliminate the capability of small-town kansas in small-town america -- we have a noon whistle in my hometown that sounds. It sounds at noon, but it sounds when there is a fire.
▶ 2:14:21Chair Murray: You saw the volunteers that run to the rescue. People that others have testified are people rescue of r neighbors. As are volunteer firefighters across kansas, and I would encourage the department of agriculture to express the importance of that -- the role of firefighters -- as osha makes its final determination about these rules. Ms.
▶ 2:14:45Chair Murray: Guzman, secretary or administrator, we have sba loans that come from the days of the pandemic -- paycheck protection. The wichita regional office is working closely with us.
▶ 2:15:02Chair Murray: But what happened in too many instances was people who claimed to be somebody else, and got those loans, and now people who are paying the price for that fraud are the people who the sba and the treasury department are pursuing for repayment of loans they never made it, never applied for, and never received.
▶ 2:15:22Chair Murray: And I just would encourage you to again reach out and find a way to put the misery that these individuals are going through, through no fault of their own -- that circumstances they find themselves in.
▶ 2:15:38Chair Murray: Finally, to a more germane topic, which I think I said is important and how we fight disasters and how comprehensive the problem is at home -- I would add nothing is included in this appropriations bill at this point with regard to nasa. Senator shaheen and I are responsible in some ways, in many ways, for the appropriations for nasa.
▶ 2:16:04Chair Murray: Disasters they have experienced over a long period of time, including in guam, as well as kennedy, johnson, and stennis are dramatic and huge and damaging to the capability of nasa to fulfill its mission. Finally, I want to express my disgust, dissatisfaction -- I sound bold when I say discussed. I feel uncomfortable being that way. I change the word to dissatisfaction. Excuse me.
▶ 2:16:35Chair Murray: Inability to get a bill for 2025 in this committee, in this session before the end of the year. It seems one more time we will fail to have an opportunity because of decisions made elsewhere. In my view, this committee -- the discussions we have this year revolved around how to get the senate to work again.
▶ 2:17:04Chair Murray: For us to have meaningful work to do. The answer is every time that the committees do their work. I am fearful that in this instance of the disaster program that this will be shuffled off to someone else, not the appropriations committee, to complete the details.
▶ 2:17:24Chair Murray: I urge all of us to lobby our leaders to remind them this is the committee that should have jurisdiction over what we are talking about today and this should not be a one-shot hearing with administrators of various agencies affected by this. This should be our work from now until the end of the year.
▶ 2:17:47Chair Murray: We have the time to complete the full fy '25 if we do not have that we have the time to be the committee that is responsible for the work before us today. >> amen. I would bet the entire committee support your discussed. -- disgust.
▶ 2:18:11Chair Murray: >> I want to think the chair and vice chair for hosting this hearing today to discuss the administration's request for response to recent natural disasters. I will add the administration's request includes just about $4 billion in supplemental funding.
▶ 2:18:35Chair Murray: This funding is such that has routinely been included in prior disaster supplementals. It is intended to address critical needs in areas affected by natural disasters related to health care, mental health care, child welfare, aging services, childcare and education among others. I hope to ensure that in any supplemental communities that there is access to those.
▶ 2:19:08Chair Murray: I want to associate myself with senator moran's global comments and also about the impact of disasters on rural america and in my state in particular to the dairy industry.
▶ 2:19:31Chair Murray: I wrote to the department of agriculture this summer to sound the alarm on challenges wisconsin dairy farmers were facing due to no fault of their own. Things like extreme weather events, drought, avian influenza in the high input costs of fuel and fertilizer. They had shared their concerns with me as they strive to recover from these challenges.
▶ 2:20:01Chair Murray: They have found existing resources and risk management tools at the usda do not meet their needs. Last congress as chair of the agricultural appropriations subcommittee I made the request to establish a direct assistance program for organic dairy farms facing similar challenges.
▶ 2:20:22Chair Murray: Your agency responded by creating the organic dairy marketing assistance program and he has been a resounding success, providing direct assistance to the organic dairy sector. Given the success of that program in addressing challenges faced by the organic sector, do you think they financing program for conventional dairy would help mitigate the loss of family farms in the state of wisconsin?
▶ 2:20:47Chair Murray: >> thank, senator baldwin for your advocacy for our dairy industry. It is crucial that we have the national milk supply. We have worked incredibly hard on the organic program. Part of the reason we focused on that is because it was an opportunity to also add value for dairy farmers, particular smaller dairy farmers that might struggle as price takers when it comes to milk as a commodity.
▶ 2:21:21Chair Murray: There are a lot of ways we need to support milk and dairy farmers. We also used funding from the ccc to provide support for not only dairy farmers that have experienced h5n1 but to support them to keep them from getting it in the future with robust testing and plans for bio security and also opportunities for ppe for farmworkers.
▶ 2:21:49Chair Murray: We work hard to work with dairy farmers to fight potential h5n1 circumstances and we would implement any program to address farm stress and challenges. >> I want to get a few more questions in. I also want to bring to your attention the livestock program designed to provide relief for farmers suffering livestock losses due to severe weather events.
▶ 2:22:17Chair Murray: Pheasants in wisconsin, the largest producer in the country. They were denied assistance despite losing over 50,000 birds due to an e2 tornado this past summer. After my office conducted casework on the owner's behalf we learned usda denies claims and discourages farmers from applying because usda interprets the statute as excluding game birds.
▶ 2:22:48Chair Murray: I do not agree and I want to see this change. Given the increasing frequency of severe weather events and the critical financial impact of them on farmers is the usda prepared to consider its -- of the eligibility criteria? >> we will continue to discuss with you that interpretation. The statutory language allows for commercial use.
▶ 2:23:13Chair Murray: Since 2009, usda has had this regulation that did not allow coverage for birds used for hunting. We would love to follow up with you. As the farm bill is being discussed it would be the opportunity to clarify. >> thank you, senator baldwin. >> I want to follow up on comments by senator boseman and senator moran.
▶ 2:23:44Chair Murray: Good to see you again, thank you for being in our state and for a lot of the good work that you do. Appreciate having you here today. Senator boseman talked about 20-your average income. That puts you 50% below your actual costs. Figure out your pay for the last 20 years and you are getting the 20-your average. Figure out what your expenses are today. You are way below cost.
▶ 2:24:13Chair Murray: Number 1, across the country, that is what our farmers are seeing. Just to really pound home what that means -- second, senator moran made a point, talking about 48 states have reported drought this year. Last I checked there only 50. 48 states reported drought.
▶ 2:24:38Chair Murray: You can see the kind of stress -- everyone knows about the hurricanes and the disasters. That is the rest of the story that has really put our farmers and ranchers up against it. The key is we provide the assistance but you work with us so we structure it right not only in terms of meeting the need but to help us get this farm bill done.
▶ 2:25:05Chair Murray: When our producers go in -- I think it was senator boseman talking about it --they could get a plan to farm next year. The farms we will lose as a result of these disasters are the ones on the edge. Those are the ones they could hit the hardest. I ask for your assurances. We work with the erp.
▶ 2:25:38Chair Murray: Sometimes it works, sometimes it has not. Will you commit to work with this committee not only in the disaster package but to help us get this farm bill done? >> it is a joy to get to work with you. I want to briefly address the net farmer income. The last four years, record numbers.
▶ 2:26:06Chair Murray: The other three have been within the 20 year national average. Higher than they have been since 2014. There was a real lull where we saw even lower net farm income. That being said, I have spoken to farmers were struggling. We need to work to make sure farmers make ends meat now and in the future. >> I know you pretty well.
▶ 2:26:39Chair Murray: I understand you have a job to defend some of the statistics that usda is putting out but average expenses are way above that average income. That is a problem, agreed? >> we will continue to work together to drive down input costs. Net income includes costs. >> the heart of the question is your willingness to work with us on structuring this a certain way. >> yes, sir. >> thank you.
▶ 2:27:13Chair Murray: You have been to our state. We had not only drought but wildfires. Are livestock producers and livestock producers across the country -- I know you have knowledge in that area -- your commitment in making sure livestock is addressed. >> we will continue to work to look at what we can do for water hauling and transportation of cattle in the face of a disaster. >> thank you.
▶ 2:27:44Chair Murray: Again, on behalf of the committee, we want to work closely with you on this. We appreciate you being here today. Director criswell, how can we be sure that -- by the way, you were in north dakota 2011 when we had flood up there, more than 4000 homes in a relatively small community were flooded out.
▶ 2:28:14Chair Murray: I know you know firsthand what it is like to work on the ground with people who have been hard-hit. How can we be ensured that fema will fairly and impartially address every single person affected by any kind of disaster given what happened earlier after the hurricanes in the southeast? How can we be sure that you are on top of that and I kind of incident will not happen and people will not be unfairly treated?
▶ 2:28:40Chair Murray: >> I spent seven months in your lovely state and I know firsthand how people are impacted. Our goal as an agency is to treat everyone fairly and ensure they have access to our programs. The incident that happened in florida is simply unacceptable. I have instituted an investigation and reached out to the ig and asked for an independent investigation of the incident.
▶ 2:29:07Chair Murray: I sent in email to our workforce we have provided refresher training to all of our staff to ensure this type of behavior never happens again. People deserve their government to help them and you have my commitment that if you find any other instances, we will take appropriate disciplinary action. >> it is critically important people understand that and it is transparent so they have confidence in fema. >> senator heinrich.
▶ 2:29:37Chair Murray: >> administrator criswell, I am extremely disappointed that so many new mexicans continue to wait for relief and compensation they are owed through the claims office. What can fema do differently so the folks who literally lost everything in the fire are not the last to get their compensation?
▶ 2:30:06Chair Murray: >> senator heinrich, I appreciate your continuing work with my department, agency and staff in the field to make sure everyone in new mexico impacted by these horrific fires. Get the compensation they need we have increased our staffing significantly throughout the year and have increased the number of claims paid out.
▶ 2:30:29Chair Murray: Today we have over $1.5 billion that have gone into the hands of people but we know we have more work to do. We continue to ensure we have the right amount of people, resources -- >> it seems like the people who were hit the hardest are at the tail end of getting compensated. The simple claims has moved and the more complicated but also more devastating claims are often the ones not getting done in a timely manner.
▶ 2:30:59Chair Murray: >> we are working with each person individually as they have their own unique experience. The more complicated ones require additional information and that is why we want to have the appropriate about of staff so we can work with each family, each individual to understand their specific needs, get documentation and get the reimbursement they are eligible for.
▶ 2:31:23Chair Murray: >> the presidential's budget request includes transfer authority for an additional $1.5 billion to compensate those victims. What would be the impact on my constituents if that funding is not improved? >> the current authorization was for $4 billion. We have a report recently that shows this is not going to be sufficient.
▶ 2:31:51Chair Murray: We expect it to be somewhere over $5 billion and it might even go higher. Without being able to transfer the funding, we can meet the claims today but I will not be able to meet the claims down the road based on what I believe is an accurate report from this independent actuary.
▶ 2:32:11Chair Murray: >> administrator guzman, spa loans as we have heard repeatedly are literally a lifeline for families and businesses and nonprofits recovering from flooding from new mexico to north carolina. We have had severe floods in roswell and chavez county in new mexico in recent weeks.
▶ 2:32:39Chair Murray: Last week I joined senators and pushing a stopgap bill to restart those spa loans immediately. Will the people needing loans at spa in roswell and other communities be able to get the low interest loans that >> need to rebuild?
▶ 2:33:00Chair Murray: >> spa is prepared to act quickly to process all of the loans pending review along with those already in queue. We will be immediately able to inform them in 24-48 hours and get closing documents to move as quickly as possible.
▶ 2:33:21Chair Murray: >> secretary, hud still, still, has not approved the state of new mexico's plan for recovery for the floods and fire disasters of 2022. That is an impediment to recovery efforts. Do I have your commitment to approve new mexico's plan before the end of the year when we will see at administration change?
▶ 2:33:53Chair Murray: >> my team did brief me on some of the technical difficulties the grantee has been experiencing so we will provide assistance. >> we need to get that -- we will start from ground zero with a brand-new administration with all the turnover. We need to get that done by the end of the year. >> you have my commitment. >> deputy secretary, the santa fe national forest has been struggling for months to hire recovery members for the burn scar.
▶ 2:34:26Chair Murray: As you know, president biden made a commitment to these communities. It is really critical to get those fires done. Do you have an update on windows positions will be filled? >> we have been working exceptionally hard and recognizing we are doing so in a challenging fiscal environment. It takes people to fight fires and manage a forest better. We have been able to rebuild through law but are facing budget constraints.
▶ 2:34:56Chair Murray: Initially we had to compose a hiring pause, hiring freeze as a result because we are preparing for changes when it comes to appropriations dollars. That being said there is a process, recognizing the commitment we have made in terms of recovery for the cap canyon fire. We have considered that process and the forest service chief has reviewed four positions for hiring. >> my time is expired.
▶ 2:35:29Chair Murray: Thank you, madam chair. >> I thank each and everyone of you for being here today. Thank you for making time to come to alabama and out only there but explore. People really appreciated that. And they appreciate you being here and the work you are doing. I want to talk first to my colleagues.
▶ 2:35:54Chair Murray: On january 12, 2020 three, selma, alabama was hit and devastated by an ef2 tornado and this has important funding, $10 million, to help with the communities affected by storms in 2023. I want to make sure the money goes to these communities in selma and help them rebuild and create resiliency.
▶ 2:36:22Chair Murray: 2, I want to make sure we are looking at actual needs and they are taken care of in this bill. For selma, this is a start. I think we all know selma and the history that occurred there in the preservation of that is not just important for the state of alabama but important for the nation and the globe.
▶ 2:36:50Chair Murray: I urge my colleagues to help me with this and make sure the community of selma has what it needs. Deputy secretary, I want to associate myself with every comment made by my distinguished colleague from mississippi. She is spot on. As our. Other colleagues I want to talk specifically about alabama.
▶ 2:37:21Chair Murray: Alabama agriculture producers are experiencing the same disasters as countless others are in the southeast and across the nation. Year over year inflation and policies have led to storied input costs and tanking commodity prices. You're are looking at higher interest rates on capital needed to plant and cultivate fields producing food for our nations families. These variables are forcing alabama farmers to make tough decisions about the future of their operations.
▶ 2:37:49Chair Murray: It is hard to find a farmer in the state of alabama who is not hurting. According to a report released on september 5, overall income in alabama declined more than $1 million between 2022 and 2023. This represents a staggering 33% loss in net cash farm income.
▶ 2:38:17Chair Murray: The main cause of this is out of control of the farm families. They are doing everything they are supposed to. They are taking a look at input costs and things do not work. According to 2022 usda census of agriculture alabama farmers experienced a 39.5% increase in cost of production from 2017 to 2022, ranking second among southern states.
▶ 2:38:47Chair Murray: This is a crisis. As congress considers disaster needs, we must consider how we ensure agriculture producers receive quick and robust economic relief to ensure hard-working family farmers can enter the next planting season with certainty and allow our farm creditors to lend with confidence.
▶ 2:39:10Chair Murray: I want to make it clear that this is an immediate need for our farmers in alabama and across the nation and I look forward to working with you to provide this relief quickly so our farmers can get seeds in the ground next spring. Thank you. I want to move on to administrator criswell. Recent reports about fema. The supervisor we have all heard about that you terminated, we continue to see more and more things come out.
▶ 2:39:39Chair Murray: I sent you a letter regarding this incident. I received a response four days late, kudos to your team getting it to me at 10:30 last night before today's hearing. I would like to ask you about some responses I received. With regards to my question about if you were going to discuss the fact whether the investigations were underway, you immediately sent you requested an investigation from the dhs office.
▶ 2:40:10Chair Murray: You set a couple of other things I want to clarify. This investigation will not just be about one incident. You will and allow this to go across everywhere fema operates. >> yes. >> thank you. You said you would take appropriate disciplinary and corrective actions if you found someone else to be complicit. I want to make sure that means they will be terminated like Ms. washington was. >> up to termination.
▶ 2:40:41Chair Murray: >> if it was similar to hers, it will be termination? >> yes. >> thank you so much for your time. >> thank you all for being here. West virginia is the only state the last -- in the appalachian mountain region.
▶ 2:41:04Chair Murray: The definition of rural exclude some of the most geographically isolated areas in my state of west virginia. Fayette county is one example. The largest city has just under 8000 residents. The landscape is mountainous with secondary roads that make travel difficult. Over the last several years it has been hit with devastating floods. Classified the county as urban. Urban.
▶ 2:41:37Chair Murray: Preventing from accessing the resources they need. I am urging the united states department of agriculture to recognize the unique topographic of our state. Almost 81% of west virginians live in a rugged area compared to 11 point 7% of the entire united states population. That is for the collis mountain mama -- that is why they call us mountain mama.
▶ 2:42:11Chair Murray: Many disaster programs that your agencies oversee direct specific resources to rural areas but do not adequately recognize the appalachian as rural. This means west virginians impacted by disasters are not getting the help and support they need. I would hope all of you would be cognizant of this ruggedness definition. Sometimes in our state you only see the sun from 11:00 to 2:00.
▶ 2:42:47Chair Murray: They are beautiful people but they need the same assistance as everyone else. The appalachian development, highway system was established in 1965 to connect highways in virginia and west virginia. We are still working on it. In a state as rugged and mountainous as mine -- this is a lifeline coming from east to west and west to east.
▶ 2:43:17Chair Murray: Connecting the population base to the D.C. metro area would be a game changer for our state both logistically and economically and allow us to better prepare for natural disasters. We only have about 15 miles left to get everything in west virginia done. Our trouble is connecting I-81. The corridor h comes to wardens will and stops.
▶ 2:43:53Chair Murray: That is all been passed through. If you could look at that, that would be the last major connection that would set us up in a better situation. >> we are very where of the importance to the people of west virginia. I know west virginia intends to use their national highway freight program formula funds for corridor h.
▶ 2:44:21Chair Murray: That would amount to a portion of $203 million of funding coming your way. There have been applications for programs that are set aside. >> you have been great, secretary. >> if you could check on the virginia side. My dear friends in virginia. We did not break away from virginia, they left us. >> I will make sure to ask them about that, senator.
▶ 2:44:51Chair Murray: [laughter] the small business administration recovering from major disasters such as hurricanes helene and milton. These events require resources. My colleagues have acknowledged spa's efforts. It is important to recognize their role with small-scale disasters.
▶ 2:45:19Chair Murray: Loans were made available to small businesses. Did you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. These losses often do not qualify for fema funding. I appreciate you taking initiative, working with us. What I could ask is can you speak to balancing the needs of larger scale disasters? >> happy to do that.
▶ 2:45:49Chair Murray: >> at any given time we have presidential declarations. Disasters we were coordinating to ensure we could support and through usda. Currently I have about 220 disruptions and 11 spa declarations. We deploy our teams for those physical and economic injury disaster loans.
▶ 2:46:20Chair Murray: We work through our partners on the ground to ensure there is awareness. The disaster administration dollars we get and make sure we can deploy. It is very critical for us. To ensure people are aware of these resources on the ground. We will always continue to try to do a better job working to ensure there are awareness of these great resources. >> the ruggedness situation is important. We are very concerned.
▶ 2:46:50Chair Murray: We have a beautiful rugged state. H it is important to connect this to the major metropolitan areas. Helping small businesses that do not qualify for fema, they cannot make it without a little assistance. I appreciate your service, thank you. >> thank you to those of you here today. Listening to each of our colleagues from around the country talk about the various disasters that have impacted them, whether droughts or floods, landslides.
▶ 2:47:21Chair Murray: Our reality is that what we are seeing is accelerating in terms of not only the types of disasters we are seeing but the economic impact, the security impact and the loss of life. I was out in guam a few weeks ago with senator manchin.
▶ 2:47:52Chair Murray: We are looking to guam to be this platform for the country. They are digging out of a typhoon from two years ago. Secretary buttigieg, I appreciate that the alaska 100 $7 million in emergency response --that is a disaster two years ago.
▶ 2:48:22Chair Murray: We recognize --we are talking about milton and helene. We still have on the books all of these other disasters that we can name, the weekend relate to. We have a system that is not keeping up. It does not have what we need.
▶ 2:48:55Chair Murray: I think we need more than that. We are tasked with -- here is the funding, here is the response. Instead of building back better, it is building back substantially similar. If you are threatened by coastal erosion and you know it will be worse next year, it does not make anyone feel secure in their homes.
▶ 2:49:19Chair Murray: Today is the one-year anniversary of a landslide in my hometown in alaska where six lives were lost. A family of five. A landslide came down in a part of the community that no one anticipated would break loose but it was intense rains combined with winds and our reality is our lack of preparedness and our lack of being able to monitor, our lack of truly understanding our
▶ 2:49:50Chair Murray: Ability to track weather systems. I am told we have one radar. It is no wonder we are not able to anticipate what is coming at us and to better protect our communities. The town I was born in experienced a deadly landslide. A few months ago.
▶ 2:50:14Chair Murray: We are talking about small-scale, big scale, whatever it is that is sitting us. Your agencies are struggling. Your agencies are overwhelmed, whether you are fema or it is any one of you. One agency not represented is someone from congress.
▶ 2:50:37Chair Murray: I wanted to ask about why we do not have anybody to talk about the fact there is no disaster assistance for the ongoing fisheries disasters we are seeing in my part of the country and senator shaheen's and senator murray's. We are told there might be another supplemental. In the meantime, our coastal communities that rely on them are being devastated, literally taken out of the knees.
▶ 2:51:07Chair Murray: There are no funds in the disaster assistance account. There are no funds. How we deal with these disasters is very real and very personal to each and everyone one of us. Let me ask a question. We have people that are not going to wait for you all to come and help them.
▶ 2:51:38Chair Murray: They need to get things secured before winter really, really hits. Ice is coming, they are locked in. They have to spend the money. They cannot wait to have department of transportation -- secretary, I appreciate we have $107 million in that account but how do we cut through the tape to make sure aid is not delayed
▶ 2:52:10Chair Murray: Because of this backend accounting requirement where the costs are attributable to the agencies? This is a challenge for people. They need to move forward but they are afraid they will not get a reimbursement. Is there a way to embrace a concept for disaster response? These are the types of things we need to think about. My time is up but if you have a quick answer, answer it.
▶ 2:52:41Chair Murray: We need to be thinking about how we can address what I think is a disaster response system that is not beating the current state of affairs. >> very briefly you have my commitment to do everything as swiftly as we can within the statute we have and for technical advice on anything that could create flexibility like you mentioned. Things like advanced work has helped on regular construction.
▶ 2:53:10Chair Murray: We would welcome exploring ways to bring that to alaska. Have some sense of what they're up against. Our staff on the ground will be ready to assess any way they can. >> I would hope the rest of you on the panel would also agree. >> senator I would add that if our funds are approved, it will be available for your fisheries. >> yea! Best news of the day.
▶ 2:53:40Chair Murray: Thank you. [laughter] >> thank you to each of you for being here. Everyone in your agencies are helping people affected by these terrible emergencies. Deputy secretary, you had a chance to come to new hampshire and talk with some of our farmers. I was interested in senator ossoff talking about farmers in georgia who have lost up to 30% of their crops.
▶ 2:54:11Chair Murray: We had three growers in new hampshire that lost -- we had free growers that lost up to 100% in 2023 because of the frost that devastated so many of our growers.
▶ 2:54:29Chair Murray: We have small farms and about 90% of our growers to not participate in federal crop insurance programs because crop insurance programs have not been designed to help farmers left we have in new hampshire. Senator collins talked about this in challenges. How does the agency estimate accurate losses for states with high rates of small and diversified farms that have limited engagement with federal programs?
▶ 2:54:58Chair Murray: >> this is an issue especially important. Fruit farmers in new hampshire saw the insurance programs do not fully recognize the need particularly when it comes to specialty crops. Our estimate of the 2023 losses of $10.7 million were based on estimated insurance and indemnity payments. Recognizing that might not be the complete picture.
▶ 2:55:29Chair Murray: We know there is a cooperative estimate that was $26 million. We also know we need to expand the insurance programs. This is a fundamental way of doing that because it helps build the case for actual insurance programs in the future. We recently announced ccc specialty crop program will be $2 billion for assistance.
▶ 2:55:56Chair Murray: >> does the estimate that has been sent to this committee for covering farm losses, would it allow for a number that is greater than the $10.7 million that you have determined? >> the first amount is based on indemnity payments. We also asked to administer an erp. There is a second tractor revenue losses. We could consider that there.
▶ 2:56:26Chair Murray: >> clearly those numbers do not reflect the real losses we are experiencing in a state like new hampshire. We have -- I would like to add my concerns to what we have heard from a number of members here about the length of time that so many of our small communities are waiting.
▶ 2:56:51Chair Murray: I appreciate there have been somebody disasters that it is hard to keep up but we have communities in new hampshire going from the canadian border in the north to the massachusetts border in the south. Everyplace from pittsburgh to at -- athworth that have not received reimbursements and they have been waiting two years. These are small communities that have been hit hard.
▶ 2:57:22Chair Murray: They do not have the capacity to cover those rebuilding costs and they need to be reimbursed. Once they filled out their paper work, they need to see the dollars coming in. >> we understand cash flow issues are critical for small communities. Every community has their own specific needs we have to have submitted.
▶ 2:57:49Chair Murray: If you have someone specific, I would be happy to look into individual cases. Part of our changes with increasing the dollar threshold on small projects looks to simplify that procedure. We have other mechanisms we can put in place to do advanced payments so that you have to wait for the entire project to be done. I would be happy to look into that for your communities.
▶ 2:58:15Chair Murray: We want to work with you on how we make this simpler as we continue to see more disasters happening across united states. >> I think that is very important. I understand these communities have already submitted their paperwork and they compliance and they are waiting for their checks. It includes acworth, newton, pittsburgh and monroe. It is across the state.
▶ 2:58:44Chair Murray: Once they have submitted the paperwork, it seems they should get their reimbursements. >> if they have submitted the paperwork they should have been reimbursed. . I will look into that. >> thank you. . Since I chair the small business committee I would like to add, thank you for all of the work you are doing. Small businesses are the heart of our economy throughout this economy, particularly in new hampshire.
▶ 2:59:13Chair Murray: We have more than 10,000 homeowners and small business owners with approved loans that are waiting on our appropriation from this committee and this congress to get to work rebuilding. Thank you. >> thank you, madam chair. Thank you for being here. It has been a long morning but it is critically important. I hail from west virginia. Senator manchin does, as well.
▶ 2:59:41Chair Murray: I do not want to speak for everyone but for me, if the disaster is not occurring in west virginia, it is occurring somewhere else and it will occur in west virginia. I have been supportive of all the communities across the country are able to get disaster relief as quickly as possible. Put me in that category that knows if not for me, it will be me and it will be us.
▶ 3:00:07Chair Murray: I would like to thank you and your opening statement for mentioning that nobody should be discriminated against for political affiliations or anything else. Thank you for reinforcing that policy. If that particular fema employee had come to west virginia, we would not have gotten much help because we have a lot of "trump" signs. I was going to call you into question about environmental review processes.
▶ 3:00:37Chair Murray: We have a town in west virginia that has been going over two years to get an environmental review for something as simple as a generator, security camera or basic predisaster mitigation equipment. The bureaucracies of this. I was informed they got there ok today. On to drought. Let me stay with you for a moment.
▶ 3:01:02Chair Murray: I was the ranking member and the chair at some point of the homeland security sub committee on appropriations. This is a perennial problem. Can we help you and help fema as an organization take some of these older disasters off of the books, may be figured out a process where we work with states and localities. There will be a funding issue.
▶ 3:01:29Chair Murray: So you do not have these backlogs andlag -- these backlogs and lags while you are trying to face what is in front of you. What kind of measures would help you do that and would it be useful? >> we have seen a number of disasters that have been ongoing for many years. Hurricane katrina. One thing we have started doing is a program we are calling validate as you go.
▶ 3:01:59Chair Murray: Part of the delay in closing out these projects is after they go through years of gathering the paperwork, doing the rebuild, we do all of the closeout at the end of the project and that can be time-consuming to look at every receipt and every action along the way. We started to do that periodically and auditing along the way so it speaks up the process. We are seeing real success with implementing this way to approach disaster closeout.
▶ 3:02:29Chair Murray: >> you are closing out portions of the disaster as you move it along? >> they are auditing it as we move along. We do not have to review every receipt at the closeout. >>'s seems you could enlist your state and local partners to help you with some work.
▶ 3:02:56Chair Murray: We want to work to make the process easier so you can close the books and you can move forward. Anything we can do to help in that would be appreciated. I am going to talk about the drug briefly because west virginia does not have a huge ag community but some of the statistics are startling. 90% of our soybean crop is in poor or very poor condition.
▶ 3:03:27Chair Murray: 97% of our soybean crop is in poor for near-poor conditions. You have been helping to reach out to our ag communities and I appreciate that.
▶ 3:03:46Chair Murray: Apparently noaa has an ai mapping system that they map on the coastlines what could be tracking impervious surfaces of roadway, runoff and how modeling can help save lives. A lot of the country has been left out of this ai modeling. I understand the coastal issues but describing her terrain, we are very prone to flooding.
▶ 3:04:16Chair Murray: Are you using similar technology for disaster and water runoff so you can more accurately see where the vulnerabilities are? >> I am not familiar with that program but we have partnerships to try to get an understanding of climate issues that we need to handle. I would segregate that into separate types of operations.
▶ 3:04:47Chair Murray: Things that need immediate real-time information. Longer-term infrastructure development. >> this is a noaa program. What about administrative? Are you familiar with the ai model being used? >> there are a number of models. Nasa has one. There are several private-sector agencies that have different models.
▶ 3:05:14Chair Murray: As we consider the impacts these communities are facing, we want to help them understand what the future risk will be. We can see that we cannot base it on historical risk. A lot of these different types of technologies, we bring all of this together in the private sector.
▶ 3:05:34Chair Murray: Nasser, no -- nasa, noaa, appropriate actions and plans to help protect citizens. >> I appreciate that. We signed a letter into requesting a disaster declaration for west virginia from helene. That storm and the water really affected all of appalachia, even into the areas of west virginia.
▶ 3:06:05Chair Murray: I appreciate your attention. >> [indiscernible] >> I want to take this opportunity to thank president biden and his entire team assembled here at the table.
▶ 3:06:33Chair Murray: A special thanks to secretary buttigieg for all your help immediately on the scene after that disaster. Administrator guzman, thank you and the spa for providing loans to those impacted. We lost six good people that day on the bridge. I think everyone remembers the scenes of the dolly, the ship crashing into the bridge.
▶ 3:07:03Chair Murray: It collapsed right into the patapsco river, which is the channel to the port of baltimore. I want to start by thanking the unified command. Sec. Buttigieg, the army corps of engineers, everyone from the federal level who immediately helped starting to clear the channel and reopen the port so thousands of workers could get back to work and small businesses that had been terribly impacted by the closure of the port would have the relief they needed.
▶ 3:07:32Chair Murray: We were able to get that port channel reopened in a very short period of time, relatively speaking. I want to thank everyone for their role in that. Sec. Buttigieg, thank you also for mentioning the key bridge replacement.
▶ 3:07:51Chair Murray: Now we have to replace the key bridge and I am pleased of the president's proposal, $100 billion including 100% funding for the key bridge. Yes, I heard senator collins mentioned that any insurance or proceeds that come to the state of maryland will be deducted. We understand that and support that but it is very important we get this bridge rebuilt.
▶ 3:08:20Chair Murray: 35,000 vehicles cross this bridge every day. You can imagine the congestion and loss of economic opportunity that has been caused an ongoing because the bridge is no longer there. I heard a senator talk about how west virginia had been hit by natural disasters. Maryland, maryland has, too.
▶ 3:08:50Chair Murray: We support the rest of the country. This has been all for one and one for all. That is the motto of the state of maryland. We expect our colleagues to support us in this hour of need. I would point out that when the minneapolis bridge collapsed back in 2007, it took only five days for the congress to pass and for the president to sign legislation assuring they would be reimbursed 100% in terms of the cost of replacing the bridge.
▶ 3:09:22Chair Murray: The house, the senate, the president, within five days. We are grateful we are already enrolled in the emergency relief program. That covers 90%. I have two questions for you. One, the proposal submitted by the president is not in legislative bill form. In order for maryland to secure the 100% change, we will need an authorization to do that.
▶ 3:09:52Chair Murray: I just want to hear from you that the president supports that. If you could just talk about how important it is for the entire country to increase the funding for the emergency relief program. >> thank you. Yes, to be clear, the president, the administration completely supports a 100% cost share that would require legislation in addition to the funding we are asking for today. The total cost we estimate to be $1.75 billion.
▶ 3:10:28Chair Murray: Less than 300 50 million being recovered from insurance. That leaves$1.34 billion. Unique, catastrophic and something we hope will never be repeated again. It is a reminder that a single disaster can have a greater than $1 billion price tag.
▶ 3:10:52Chair Murray: Right now we have $119.6 million in the entire account which means we are one disaster from being completely out of funding. This covers the entire backlog from helene and milton to the francis scott key bridge replacement to dozens of other disasters we are still paying for in dozens of other states. >> I want to thank my colleague and partner and the entire maryland delegation.
▶ 3:11:23Chair Murray: The bridge act to ensure the full 100%. I thank you and the president for your support. >> thank you, senator peters. >> before I get into my questions, I want to highlight -- telecommunication networks being damaged by storms and flooding other disasters.
▶ 3:11:51Chair Murray: Right now broadband companies waiting on these dollars must rely on chinese equipment that poses a threat to our national security. Hands are tied from procuring new equipment when the network goes down. That is why I believe funding -- a bipartisan priority. States across the country should be a priority as part of the disaster relief package.
▶ 3:12:20Chair Murray: My first question is for administrator criswell. Good to see you. We were together a lot. This year fema announced the second round of awards for the safeguarding tomorrow's revolving loan fund which I created through ongoing risk mitigation. The storm act.
▶ 3:12:43Chair Murray: It allows fema to help set up low cost revolving loans and funds local governments to mitigate their risk. My question is can you discuss why having this tool in our resilience funding toolbox is so important?
▶ 3:13:06Chair Murray: >> senator peters, I appreciate your leadership in this bill and helping to get this across the finish line. Building resilience has never been more important. Some communities cannot come up with the cost share for fema programs or other programs. If they are using their own funding, the storm act gives them a fund to -- they can get this critical work done.
▶ 3:13:37Chair Murray: These projects are not inexpensive. Being able to give them additional resources to help get the project off the ground will help them in their ability to become stronger and produce impacts -- reduce impacts to future storms. >> this next question is for all of our witnesses. One of the most persistent complaints about our disaster relief system that I hear is its complexity and fragmentation.
▶ 3:14:08Chair Murray: It makes it difficult for disaster survivors to navigate and receive the aid they so desperately need. They are faced -- the survivor of a tragedy, needing housing and food and all sorts of assistance. Yet they need to fill out multiple applications. Every agency has their own application.
▶ 3:14:34Chair Murray: You are telling someone in pretty desperate shape, here are the six different applications you need to fill out and deal with six different agencies. I have authored a bill that has gone through the senate, the simplification act, that says if you are a victim of this type of disaster, you should fill out one form -- this is common sense -- and immediately have all the folks who will be helpful to you understand the problem and be able to deliver.
▶ 3:15:05Chair Murray: It would create a universal disaster application. It is in the best interest of survivors. When I talk about how this is popular in a public meeting I usually get applause. A lot of stuff I introduce I do not get applauses for what this is common sense.
▶ 3:15:26Chair Murray: I would like to have each of you tell me if you believe that creating a universal disaster application is in the best interest of survivors and will facilitate them getting the help they need. I know each of you are anxious to provide but how do we do it in a more efficient way? >> thank you, senator. Anything we can do to remove barriers helps people on their road to recovery. It gives them the opportunity to apply for the recovery.
▶ 3:15:58Chair Murray: If they find barriers, they will stop and give up. This type of effort helps ease the burden and helps them get into the programs that are eligible for. >> I appreciate that. >> if hud disaster relief program is authorized, yes, we will work closely with our colleagues to ensure a seamless experience.
▶ 3:16:20Chair Murray: >> thank you for talking about flexibilities. It is one of the most important things about disaster response. I know that usda has submitted multiple suggestions for how to increase flexibilities. I appreciate your effort to create more authorities for us to expand. And make it so on the hardest day of someone's life they are not having to navigate multiple forms.
▶ 3:16:51Chair Murray: We would like to navigate the back end of the outcome the computer systems. That becomes another implementation. >> senator, the sba completely supports the concept of no wrong door. The great news is that earlier this year in march, fema took leadership in passing individual assistant change which was transformative.
▶ 3:17:18Chair Murray: No longer will you be required to fill out sba's application to get assistance. It was traumatic for those to come to us first and get denied and then go to fema. We are pleased that no longer is the case. Sba is in a unique situation.
▶ 3:17:37Chair Murray: I support over 231 declarations in addition -- while I support no wrong door, I do not support a control where one agency controls that universal platform. I would prefer a platform that would exist where there are back end solutions to ensure a seamless.
▶ 3:18:05Chair Murray: We are working closely with fema to try to simplify data sharing so we can achieve that. We would be happy to provide technical assistance to make sure the language in the bill does not force us to work through one agency on a universal application where we have no control to make minor changes and have quick flexibility to best meet the needs of our businesses in particular. We are happy to work with you on this. >> good.
▶ 3:18:34Chair Murray: >> we are passionate about reducing the number of pages and number of steps in any of our processes. That is why we have done the combined notices. Without knowing all the details of this proposal I would certainly welcome a chance to work on anything to help simplify the process at the front end. >> thank you. >> thank you for your patience.
▶ 3:19:01Chair Murray: >> thank you to the patience of our witnesses. My question is for you, detra -- deputy secretary. $6.9 billion. An additional $3.1 billion for national parks and the fish and wildlife service.
▶ 3:19:29Chair Murray: If that estimate in the ballpark of what you have been hearing echo >> the current submission we have provided is in that ballpark. >> $5.6 billion was just hurricane helene. $1.3 billion for other damage. My estimates are about right. What he referred to was just the forest service.
▶ 3:20:01Chair Murray: National park service, fish and wildlife. We end up with about $10 billion worth of damage. How many billions of dollars are in this bill to address infrastructure damage? >> the current request this not include that damage. There is an outstanding amount. >> the current is zero? Zero out of $10 billion, that is the point I want to drive home.
▶ 3:20:29Chair Murray: It is completely unacceptable and possibly others might say to me, there is a mirage on the horizon. Does anyone think that will happen? We have the political will to address these issues. I am encouraging every possible effort. In 2020, oregon had horrific damage from catastrophic wildfires.
▶ 3:20:59Chair Murray: My colleague was describing what happened in hawaii. Senator padilla could tell you what happened in paradise, california. In 2020, we had six towns burned to the ground and others deeply damaged. I traveled 600 miles, never got out of the smoke. The ruins were something out of a war zone.
▶ 3:21:23Chair Murray: The fy '22 supplemental helped us with roads and bridges, helped re-vegetate burned areas and set the foundation. Thank you. To all my colleagues who supported that. Today, the request we have before us ignores the infrastructure on public lands.
▶ 3:21:57Chair Murray: These disasters, hurricanes, wildfires, flash floods, they do enormous damage and we need to restore that damage. Hurricane helene destroyed or damaged 900 miles of roads or bridges in national forests which the community depends on for day-to-day transportation. It caused dozens of landslides and rock slides. Damaging the part.
▶ 3:22:27Chair Murray: It wiped out or damaged more than 40 bridges on the trail. Dozens of other national parks, national forests suffered damages over the last two years. Yosemite, sequoia, kings canyon. Wildlife refuge.
▶ 3:22:56Chair Murray: We have a long history of caring for our public lands. It is in the heart of every american. This bill fails to honor that responsibility. In the fy c1 that responsibility. I was thinking about how in 2022, we assess the damage and yellowstone.
▶ 3:23:26Chair Murray: Floating through the river and the key access. We did the right thing. We helped address the water system, and that is what we need to be doing now on this. I'm talking about buildings, roads, trestles, bridges, I'm talking about the research sites and the trail.
▶ 3:23:56Chair Murray: We must not say it is ok to have that devastation said there unaddress. Thank you. >> thank you. That will conclude our hearing for the day, and I want to thank everyone for joining us for this really critical discussion. It is clear that people are hurting, and it is crucial we get them the help they needed bypassing a bipartisan disaster supplemental.
▶ 3:24:23Chair Murray: I will continue to work with vice chair collins and my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to get that done, and to wrap up our fy 25 spending bill in a bipartisan way, consistent with our spending bill. For any senator who wants to ask additional questions, we will be ready in seven days, wednesday, november 20 seven, by 5:00 p.m. -- november 27, by 5:00 p.m.
▶ 3:24:53Chair Murray: [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]