▶ 0:21:55Chair Grassley: Good morning. And welcome to our first markup of this 119 congress. Again, I welcome senator durbin as our new ranking member, as well as our new members.
▶ 0:22:16Chair Grassley: New members are senator schmitt, senator britt, senator schiff, and we also have a particular welcome to our newest senator from the state of florida, senator ashley moody. Welcome. [applause] today, the only item on the agenda is the hold on pam bondi's nomination to serve as attorney general.
▶ 0:22:45Chair Grassley: Last week, committee democrats exercise their right under the committee rules to hold the nomination for seven days. We honored it last week, so today is the week to hold out miss bondi's. Two weeks ago, she testified before the committee.
▶ 0:23:09Chair Grassley: That was about five hours of testimony, giving us a chance to learn more about her and her priorities. What we learned is she is a tough person, a career in prosecution, but also a fair career prosecutor, who built her reputation by enforcing the rule of law.
▶ 0:23:37Chair Grassley: She spent 18 years serving as a prosecutor before being elected two terms as florida attorney general. Her record shows that she is willing to tackle and solve some of the hardest problems facing our nation.
▶ 0:23:59Chair Grassley: As florida's attorney general, miss bondi focused on human trafficking, led the fight against opioid pill mills, protecting consumers, and sought justice for victims of violent criminals. Her record and her testimony showed the american people that she will follow through and enforce the law fairly without fear or favor.
▶ 0:24:26Chair Grassley: On the second day of her hearing, we heard from witnesses who praised miss bondi's character, her fairness, her willingness to work with members of both parties to solve hard problems. So we heard from an elected democrat who never voted for president trump.
▶ 0:24:48Chair Grassley: He told us that miss bondi was fair, tethered to the rule of law, and could work with both democrat and republicans to serve the american people. We heard from florida's statewide prosecutor who praised her competence running the legal department of the third largest state of our nation.
▶ 0:25:12Chair Grassley: We have heard from a florida sheriff who testified about her commitment to law and order and her partnership with law enforcement to keep floridians safe. These witnesses have worked with miss bondi for decades, and they all vouched for her capability and character.
▶ 0:25:39Chair Grassley: Miss bondi's nomination has received a flutter from all across america, law-enforcement representing more than 650,000 officers wrote to the committee and urged us to support the nomination.
▶ 0:26:02Chair Grassley: A few of these groups include the national association of police organizations, the national sheriffs association, major county sheriff's, national narcotic officers association, international association of chiefs of police, and many others. This support is a testament to miss bondi's history of backing law enforcement.
▶ 0:26:32Chair Grassley: We also received letters from more than 100 former senior doj officials, scores of U.S. attorneys, dozens of state attorneys general, women's rights groups, second amendment groups, and others who all strongly support the nominee. I would like to address some attacks against miss bondi.
▶ 0:27:01Chair Grassley: Several members of this committee characterized miss bondi as an election denier. This is inconsistent with their own statements because on multiple occasions during her hearing, miss bondi stated that president biden was the president and that she "accepted the result." as I said during the hearing,
▶ 0:27:33Chair Grassley: Questioning the results of an election does not make one an election denier. If this is the criteria by which we judge public officials, scores of democrats, including some on this committee, minority leader schumer cast out on senator casey's lawson pennsylvania just a few months ago, hillary clinton, the elected democrats have called
▶ 0:28:04Chair Grassley: President trump and illegitimate president and suggested that 2016 election was stolen, stacey abrams and even some members of this committee suggest the 20 georgia governor's election was "stolen." the attacks against miss bondi on this point of a partisan double standard.
▶ 0:28:31Chair Grassley: Some of my colleagues also implied that miss bondi's lobbying career should be disqualified. This, too, was very unfair. Miss bondi exposed her lobbying work and her clients young which she was required to do.
▶ 0:28:54Chair Grassley: She has been more transparent than other recent nominees, and there is no reason to think she would not follow the law and recuse herself on conflicts of interest shown. Democrats did not waste concern when one of president biden's doj's nominees worked for china and huawei during his time in private practice, noted we hear
▶ 0:29:24Chair Grassley: Concerns about general holder's lobbying activities. When senator tillis pressed democrat witness miss jennifer gilbert to articulate specific concerns with miss bondi's lobbying career, she was unable to point to anything specific.
▶ 0:29:50Chair Grassley: She just kept repeating that miss bondi's former clients would give "the appearance of impropriety or impropriety ." vague assumptions of conflict of interest are not a reason to oppose a nominee who pledged to follow established procedures regarding these conflicts.
▶ 0:30:15Chair Grassley: Some of my colleagues also suggest that miss bondi's loyalty to president trump is somehow disqualifying and is not persuasive in any way. There's something wrong with president trump appointing someone who defended him to a high position.
▶ 0:30:38Chair Grassley: Miss bondi publicly supported president trump, just like 77 million americans who voted him back into office in november, so this, too, is also not a disqualifying attribute. The president has the right to choose and attorney general who is loyal and he will faithfully carry out the vision for america that this president ran on.
▶ 0:31:07Chair Grassley: I know democrats did not voice concerns about the loyalty of attorney general holder. He strike himself as president obama's winged man. Of course, we all remember president john f. Kennedy appointed his own brother to serve as attorney general. Many of my colleagues also suggested that miss bondi was to partisan for a role at the department of justice.
▶ 0:31:34Chair Grassley: This is surprising to me considering many of my colleagues was judicial nominees over the last four years, and a few examples would be cooped up -- gupta who tweeted "don't know if I can take three more nights of racism, xenophobia, and
▶ 0:32:06Chair Grassley: Outrageous lies. The meddlesome -- outrageous lies echo matt oles -- outrageous lies." matt olson penned an op-ed to time magazine in 2016 entitled " why isis supports donald trump." judge dale whole, who suggested his work was "made for conservatives" and who described himself as a "wild I leftists,"
▶ 0:32:44Chair Grassley: These statements do not bother my colleagues, so if they are fair, they should not be bothered by miss bondi's support of president trump. Finally, I would like to address a smear from the legacy media who declared I was repeating a "discredited myth" when I said that "the fbi opened dozens of
▶ 0:33:16Chair Grassley: Investigations into parents who voiced concern at school board meetings regarding curriculum choices and covid-19 mandates." to set the record straight, these are the facts.
▶ 0:33:34Chair Grassley: On october 4, 2021, general garland issued a memorandum directing law enforcement to address threats against school administrators and board members. This was in response to a letter requested by the national school board association to president biden that they later apologized for.
▶ 0:34:00Chair Grassley: That organization said "there was no justification for some of the language included in the letter," but that apology was too little, too late. By october 20, 2021, the fbi counterterrorism division had acted on general garland's directive and announced a new threat tag to use against parents voicing concerns that it
▶ 0:34:31Chair Grassley: Was "edu officials" as in education officials. Fbi whistleblowers came forward, stating that "at least a dozen of investigations into parents and had been started using the new threat tag."
▶ 0:35:01Chair Grassley: As of october 27, 2021, the senate judiciary oversight hearing, I asked attorney harland to retract -- attorney garland to detract his memo. He refused.
▶ 0:35:18Chair Grassley: On february 3, 20 23, the house judiciary committee chair subpoenaed fbi director christopher wray for documents relating to the issues of " issues of counterterrorism resources to target parents." in response to the subpoena, the fbi acknowledged for the first time that it opened 25 "guardian assessments," including six that
▶ 0:35:49Chair Grassley: Were run by the fbi counterterrorism division. These government-funded resource investigations did not identify any legitimate threats. I now turn to ranking member durbin.
▶ 0:36:16Sen. Durbin: Thank you. If you would like to know the role of the department of justice under president trump, listen to his words. He says, "I have the absolute right to do what I would like to do with the justice department." he not only uses the justice department to advances political interests, but he has promised to "seek retribution against the
▶ 0:36:46Sen. Durbin: Enemy within." the president has gotten to weaponized the justice system against those he feels wrong to him, it includes career prosecutors, military officials, and his own former clinical appointees. Unfortunately, we are seeing these threats emerge in real time.
▶ 0:37:08Sen. Durbin: Last week, the trump administration reassigned and removed at least 20 senior career national division of criminal division attorneys, including one prosecutor who had served in the national security division since its inception under george w. Bush. President trump also forced out fbi director christopher wray and deputy, creating a leadership backing of an important agency.
▶ 0:37:36Sen. Durbin: These moves made in the interest of installing his own loyalists put our national security and public safety at risk. The U.S. attorney's office for the district of columbia is further proof president trump's commitment to putting his interest ahead of those of the american people. Last week, he installed ed martin as interim U.S. attorney and washington, D.C.. Mr. martin was the leader of the so-called stop the steal movement to overturn the 2020 election, and Mr.
▶ 0:38:06Sen. Durbin: Martin defended several january 6 rioters. He was on the grounds of the U.S. capitol on january 6. He posted the following on social media, "like mardi gras in D.C. today. Love, faith, and joy. Ignore fake news." Mr.
▶ 0:38:28Sen. Durbin: Martin has already dismissed pending charges against january 6 defendants and shut down the section of the office handling those cases. He has opened an investigation into the office of january 6 prosecutions apparently to begin carrying out pam bondi's promise to "prosecute the prosecutors,, investigate the investigators." acting attorney general mckennitt he moved to fiery
▶ 0:39:00Sen. Durbin: Number of career justice department employees because "he played a significant role in prosecuting president trump." retaliating against these career public officials who are simply doing the job they were assigned to do is unfair. Asked repeatedly who will execute the mass deportation effort, we have finally come to learn which agencies will bear the responsibility.
▶ 0:39:25Sen. Durbin: They include the drug enforcement administration, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, and other justice department law enforcement agencies. Instead of investigating fentanyl, the firearms trafficking to mexico to the cartels, the dea and atf resources will be diverted toward deporting families who may or may not have any criminal record or be any danger to this country.
▶ 0:39:54Sen. Durbin: And in the latest blow, president trump's illegal funding jeopardizes critical justice department grants that support local law enforcement and survivors of domestic violence, sex trafficking and other violent crimes. Given the massive up people that president trump has caused that the justice department and the first few days of office, the next attorney general will have their work cut out for them.
▶ 0:40:23Sen. Durbin: As I said in pam bondi's hearing, it is critical that any nominee for the position be first and foremost of the constitution and the american people. Not the president and his political agenda. Unfortunately, I'm convinced miss bondi shares that belief.
▶ 0:40:41Sen. Durbin: She is one of the four personal lawyers of president trump and already selected for top positions at the department of justice, and she is echoed president trump's calls for exacting revenge on political parties. Responding undermined our democracy by 80 president trump efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
▶ 0:41:09Sen. Durbin: She refused repeatedly during her hearing to acknowledge that president trump actually lost about in 2020. During her hearing, I asked if she was familiar with the january 2021 phone call in which secretary of state brad rafer said "find 11,780 votes." miss bondi denied having this into the phone call.
▶ 0:41:36Sen. Durbin: However, in august of 2023, she appeared on a news program and defended president trump's conduct, stating that his actions were "not a crime" andrew "free speech. She condemned the criminal charges -- and were "free speech." she condemned the criminal charges on the phone call where he asked the secretary of georgia to find "11,780 votes."
▶ 0:42:07Sen. Durbin: I asked her to speak on why she spoke so authoritatively when she was, according to her own claim, unfamiliar with evidence. Her explanation was that she was on television, not in the court, it is deeply concerned that someone seeking the role of attorney general believes it is appropriate to comment publicly in a criminal case without conducting a minimal, minimal assessment of the evidence. The role of attorney general is a serious one.
▶ 0:42:33Sen. Durbin: It requires a person to be committed to facts and the law, not someone who is willing to say whatever is politically expedient. During her hearing, I was surprised to hear her speak of "a peaceful transition of power in 2021." the written questions miss bondi attempted to walk a statement back and affirmed a "smooth transition of power." I was at the capitol on
▶ 0:43:05Sen. Durbin: January 6, and 2021, the events were neither peaceful nor smooth. The 140 law enforcement officers who were assaulted by president trump's orders on january 6 and a test what actually happened. Miss bondi also refused to comment impossible pardons for the january 6 rioters violently assaulted police officers.
▶ 0:43:25Sen. Durbin: One of my republican friends on this panel dismissed my question and said it was "an absurd and unfair hypothetical" and even asked whether president trump would grant pardons to those who assaulted police officers. Now we know what happened. I also remain concerned about Ms. ponte's deep ties to special interest, -- miss bondi's deep ties to special interests, including amazon, uber, and a private prison company.
▶ 0:43:59Sen. Durbin: Miss bondi has earned over $1 million as a lobbyist and hundreds of thousands more for providing legal services to major corporations. Let responding notably did not recognize these entities as potential conflicts of interest is confirmed. That is why I asked the justice department and the national archives for more information on her lobbying before the trump white house and her foreign lobbying activities. We have yet to receive that information.
▶ 0:44:26Sen. Durbin: And when asked to commit to recusing herself for matters involving her former clients, miss bondi would only admit to consulting with officials. Our next attorney general needs to protect consumers.
▶ 0:44:48Sen. Durbin: Yes, she was the attorney general for the large estate in the union for 10 years, but there remains one question unanswered, whether she would be willing to tell donald trump, the president of the united states, and wealthy special interests, no, if faced with pressure to use her position as attorney general to benefit those parties. In light of the trump administration's actions over the course of the past few days, that question is even more critical.
▶ 0:45:16Sen. Durbin: And I did not receive a satisfactory answer from miss bondi. Since watergate, there has been support that the justice department should be independent from the white house. President trump's conduct in his first term underscore that need. I do not not believe that miss bondi will provide that. I hope she proves me wrong but I cannot support her nomination.
▶ 0:45:38Chair Grassley: Thank you, senator durbin. Today, I plan to stay as long as it takes for members is because long as they would like to. -- to speak as long as they would like to.
▶ 0:45:52Chair Grassley: I would like to follow senator durbin with the garland denomination, we have not called rolon miss bondi's nomination right away, and then we will hear statements by members, this is how we conducted a markup for attorney general garland under chair durbin. I would like to follow the same practice. I'm favorably reporting the nomination of pamela jo bondi to be attorney general. The clerk will call the roll.
▶ 0:46:34Chair Grassley: [calling roll]
▶ 0:47:16Chair Grassley: Aye. Ok. 12 to 10, the nomination will be favorably reported. I will call on senator cornyn. Would you like to speak?
▶ 0:47:40Senator Cornyn: No thank you.
▶ 0:47:43Chair Grassley: Ok.
▶ 0:47:49Senator: Attorney general bondi was an engaging witness and the twice elected attorney general of her home state, and she said a lot of the right things. But the question for me that she faced was, if trump asked her to do something illegal or unconstitutional, would she be capable to say no?" capable to say no?
▶ 0:48:20Senator: That was the key question for me. And what I noticed as she testified here is that whenever she got into an area where there was a trump sensitivity, it was like watching a plane flying into the bermuda triangle and all the navs and comms go haywire. During her hearing, she refused to acknowledge that president trump lost the 2020 election.
▶ 0:48:51Senator: You just heard the budget committee claimant was rigged, so this is a recurring theme in trump land. She claimed there was a peaceful transfer of power in 2021, part of the effort to erase january 6. She refused to agree that there is presently no predication to investigate special counsel jack smith or chair liz cheney.
▶ 0:49:18Senator: She defended--patel, claiming I don't believe he has an enemy's list, except that patel had posted the list for social media with the caption "names's name, the manhunt starts tomorrow." if that is not an enemy's last, I don't know what is.
▶ 0:49:48Senator: Will she be a restraint on this character if he becomes the fbi director? This guy also posted a video on social media showing him taking a chainsaw to members of his enemy's list. Reposted, reposted by cash patel.
▶ 0:50:17Senator: We already saw doj's independence under attack, people cleared out for doing assigned work that their senior members told them they had to do , career affection sheets, the people with the skills to push back against polluters, have been reassigned or suspended to make it easier for code looters to environ -- polluters.
▶ 0:50:44Senator: Just one example was the trump pardons of the violent offenders january 6. Which we were told would be hard to believe, even absurd, would not happen. We were told republican senators were against it for people who assaulted cops, threw stuff at cops, broke down doors and windows. We were told if you committed violence, obviously, obviously should not be pardoned, that by the now vice president.
▶ 0:51:14Senator: We are told he's going to focus on all the people who did not commit any violence. And we were told that when you pardon people who attacked police officers, you are sending the wrong signal. But despite all of that, that is precisely what he did. He now has an army on the streets of people who have proven themselves willing to commit political violence at his behest.
▶ 0:51:43Senator: While also pulling back security protection for his perceived enemies. How violent are the people who pardoned? It has not been long since departed and one has already been arrested -- since the pardon and what has already been arrested. Another has been killed in a shootout in an armed confrontation with police officers.
▶ 0:52:08Senator: One already incarcerated for an armed standoff with police was pardoned wild and present. This is not normal. It is just one example of the way things are going, and somewhere, somehow, someone has to have the spine to say no.
▶ 0:52:35Senator: And I have regrettably concluded based on watching that airplane spin into the trump bermuda triangle that pam bondi will not be that person, so that is why I voted no.
▶ 0:53:02Senator: Thank you chairman grassley. When I considered whether to vote for president trump's nominees, and look at three things, do they have the relevant qualifications and experience? Do they have policy views that I believe are not obviously in contravention of the basic interest of people of the united states, and do they had the character and independence to do the job with integrity?
▶ 0:53:30Senator: Attorney general bondi clearly has the experience to serve as U.S. attorney general. She served for two terms for one of the largest states, was a prosecutor for decades, and I understand we will disagree on large areas of policy even that she was nominated by the president of the other party. We could spend a lot of time on this but I will focus on a simple question that decides my vote here.
▶ 0:53:56Senator: It came down to the third pace, whether or not miss bondi possesses the character to run the doj independent of orders from the white house that would put at risk our constitution. I wanted to know from her specifically, which she refused to obey an illegal order or resigned resigne?
▶ 0:54:19Senator: I asked her that in our private meeting and told her I would ask again in her public hearing and tried to work through what her views and answer was. She refused to answer the question in private and public, saying she would not have accepted the nomination if she had that president trump whatever put her in that position.
▶ 0:54:40Senator: Some of you may remember I asked that in her confirmation hearing and she said she said she would not answer hypothetical, especially one saying president trump would issue an unethical order. I believe senator blumenthal asked the same without response. I gave her yet another chance to answer the question directly, having described it as the key and in writing, and she refused to answer.
▶ 0:55:09Senator: How hard is it to say he would refuse an illegal order? In 2019 and the confirmation hearing, I asked president trump's last attorney general bill barr whether he would resign if asked to do something illegal, and his response was brisk and direct, I would resign .
▶ 0:55:26Senator: Actions taken yesterday, I believe, show that miss bondi's answer misses a painfully obvious point that this is not hypothetical, that the omb issued an illegal and unconstitutional order freezing hundreds of billions of dollars of duly appropriated authorized federal grants, funding that congress lawfully appropriated, I get it, president trump was elected and will have the
▶ 0:55:57Senator: Opportunity to put his stamp on policy priorities of our appropriations going forward, but this is reaching back, grabbing and freezing appropriations that had already been passed by congress and signed by the president. That includes funding for my home state and all of yours that the department of justice, state and local law enforcement rely on to do their job. This is literally defunding the police if carried out.
▶ 0:56:29Senator: Drug task forces, no more funding to fight opioid addiction, no more money to keep kids safe in schools. Delaware and all of our state and local fire and first responder and police organizations rely on federal grants to do their work, and if they are frozen or paused for an indefinite time, it has impacts that go well beyond the guardrails of what is seen.
▶ 0:56:58Senator: This goes so clearly outside of the bounds of presidential power that a federal judge blocked it within minutes after its application and hours after the lawsuit was filed. Let me conclude, based on her answers, I do not have confidence that miss bondi in a similar circumstance this week would have told the white house and president trump that that director was not just ill-conceived but illegal, even if she knew it was unconstitutional, I don't believe she would have resigned.
▶ 0:57:24Senator: I cannot vote for an attorney general that I cannot trust to stand up for the rule of law. I suspect was bondi will be confirmed, and I hope that she leads the department with integrity and independence the system requires. We had a constructive conversation about her record, referenced by the chairman and working on the opioid crisis and criminal justice reform.
▶ 0:57:46Senator: I have a number of partisan bills to address, issues like supervised release, helping people get drivers licenses, simple common sense progress on criminal justice reform. She said if confirmed, she would have an open-door policy and work across the aisle. I hope that is true, and I look forward to taking her up on that offer if she is confirmed. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:58:13Senator: Thank you, Mr. chairman. It was noted that pam bondi was the first woman to serve as the elected attorney general in the state of florida. I had the honor to be her successor as florida's attorney general and I now join you as a colleague.
▶ 0:58:32Senator: I'm so honored to be among you, but I also have the honor of appearing at my first committee hearing and taking my first vote in committee to support her nomination as the united states attorney general.
▶ 0:58:46Senator: Much has been said this morning, and I would like to address some of the accolades as pam the prosecutor, it has been suggested she would not stand up to large corporations, but I would remind everyone that as florida's attorney general, she worked in a bipartisan fashion with attorneys general from both parties to go after and bring recoveries to americans, and floridians.
▶ 0:59:15Senator: She was the tip of the spear on our largest battles, a trailblazer, she never compromised her fidelity to the rule of law, and I will tell you, everyone in florida would say she never back down from a challenge, no matter how large the corporation on the other side. So no matter who you were, how much money was in your bank account, how big your business was, if you are harming floridians, she was going to go after you.
▶ 0:59:43Senator: She fought for homeowners in the market housing crash and helped the lenders accountable for the housing crisis and secured more than 50 billion in recovery. I often get a lot of the credit for resolving it, but she was the one to launch florida's action against some of the largest manufacturers and distributors of opioids in the nation when we started losing record number of americans to opioid overdose deaths.
▶ 1:00:14Senator: She fought for accountability for the oil spill in the gulf of america and secured $20 billion for states affected by the disaster and locked up human traffickers with a near-perfect conviction record and recovered billions of dollars for americans and floridians based on her bipartisan consumer protection actions.
▶ 1:00:36Senator: We have talked a lot about pam the prosecutor who never forgot a victim, personally went to crime scenes, still stays in contact with the victims, never wavered in her cause to seek justice for them. Unlike so many other of our U.S. attorneys general, she has actually been to the scenes of crimes on multiple occasions and still fights for the victims that she sought justice for so long ago.
▶ 1:01:05Senator: Pam the prosecutor who has a stellar record will make an incredible attorney general, but personally having known her for decades, I like to switch from pam the prosecutor to pam the person to assure so many, not just those sitting here today, but so many americans that are watching the hearings and so many of my senate fellow colleagues that she has the strength to stand up against corporations, even those in her own leadership, to do what is
▶ 1:01:37Senator: Right under the rule of law and to protect americans. She is tenacious when she is seeking to bring justice to victims. She has personally led the charge and really let a movement across this nation to eliminate the enormous backlog of untested rape kits in florida, and through those efforts, cold cases were solved, sexual predators were locked up, and I got to announce, and in my first year in office, we completed the testing of every one of those
▶ 1:02:07Senator: Untested sexual assault kits. When florida was deemed the pill mill capital of the world and we had more pill mills that we had mcdonald's in the state of florida, where 90% of the largest distributing pill mills were in florida, the entire nation, she personally took that on, worked in a bipartisan way to shut down the pill mills in florida, and we were glad to shed the title of the pill mill capital of the world.
▶ 1:02:38Senator: In a distilled urban legend, in tallahassee, florida, the capital of florida, it is urban legend she was able to accomplish when we started losing record number of people to fentanyl in this nation, when fentanyl became such a deadly poison, ravaging our fighting age americans and even our children, she took that on, even when some in leadership did not go along with it, she personally visited democratic and republican lawmakers with vials
▶ 1:03:09Senator: Of grains of sand and showed them how deadly that substance was, and when leadership was not anxious to go along, she won that vote by one. I can assure you pam the person would never allow herself to make any decision or take any action as attorney general through the lens of red or blue. She has never been persuaded by those who might hold power. She is driven by her insatiable desire to protect people and ensure justice. I can assure you she loves this country.
▶ 1:03:40Senator: She reveres our judicial system. She safeguards it and knows it is there to protect persons and their inalienable rights. Our judicial system has hit a record low of trust by the american people. We should all be fighting every day to change course. Just as she has done for countless victims, she will clawback this nation stressed in our judicial system and the doj.
▶ 1:04:05Senator: She will not hide behind court filings or press releases would be frank and passionate with the american people and fight for them as she has done her entire career. Our justice system itself has been victimized by those who have used it and exploited it for political warfare. She will fight for this country she loves, its people and the integrity of the judicial system.
▶ 1:04:29Senator: Our judicial system must be made whole, we must restore trust in it to maintain the strength, stability and continuity of this great nation, and, finally, and my remarks regarding our soon-to-be attorney general of the united states pam bondi, and pam the person, I think it is important to let everyone know when I became the attorney general behind her, she was not as interested in remembering that I remember to recognize her for her achievements, all she
▶ 1:05:00Senator: Cared about was my success and my continuing to protect floridians, our state autonomy and the safety of those in our state, and it is evident by what she left me, she left me a note card with a personal note and said, "ashley, you will be the greatest ag." you know what I get to say now? Right back at palm bandy. Pam bondi will make the greatest united states attorney general.
▶ 1:05:28Chair Grassley: Thank you, senator. Senator klobuchar is next. I will be calling three minutes so I don't lose my line in seniority of finance and then I will be right back. >> Mr. chairman, I don't think you will ever lose your line in seniority.
▶ 1:05:51Senator Klobuchar: Ok, I'm just going to speak for two minutes in deference to my colleagues, and sharing another hearing and heading to another, but I wanted to record my vote officially as opposed, as I know we voted by proxy, I would like to simply say, I appreciated our new colleague's words about her friend and colleague.
▶ 1:06:22Senator Klobuchar: As consent that I vote as opposed. Thank you. I enjoyed meeting pam bondi and enjoyed talking about shared priorities, including cracking down on human trafficking, fentanyl, promoting competition in the economy, and I look forward to working with her on these issues.
▶ 1:06:51Senator Klobuchar: I do have concern that I know senator durbin and my colleagues expressed about her ability to ensure the independence of the justice department. President trump and his nominee to head the fbi has made repeatedly clear that they will be used to department to get revenge on their political opponents and they are actually showing it.
▶ 1:07:13Senator Klobuchar: And for the shared priorities we have talked about, these have not been the shared priorities of the trump administration, in less than two weeks since he was sworn in, the president simultaneously used to department of justice to punish prosecutors invest in crimes in relation to those responsible and that assault and denigrated prosecutors to put in jail someone whose website because the death of six people.
▶ 1:07:45Senator Klobuchar: In his first hours in office, the president issued an executive order directing the attorney general to re-examine scores of investigations and prosecutions at the department over the last four years. This week, the U.S.
▶ 1:07:58Senator Klobuchar: Attorney for the district of columbia ordered an investigation of the charging decisions of the prosecutors involved in the january 6 cases, but what really concerns me what I do look forward to talking with pam bondi about, if she is confirmed, and I do look forward to discussing this with her because we both shared a common background as heading up prosecutor offices of career prosecutors, as our new
▶ 1:08:29Senator Klobuchar: Colleague just noted, here we have a case where prosecutors who throughout the department have worked a politically for decades, to uphold the rule of law and keep our country safe. They just get randomly assigned to cases sometimes. New people come and get put on cases, and to fire these people simply because they have been placed on cases, career people, is just wrong.
▶ 1:08:56Senator Klobuchar: Looking at the assistant attorney general and the assistant director of counterterrorism and the most senior career official who for years worked to ensure that the og -- that doj leaders work with rules to keep politics out of the department work.
▶ 1:09:16Senator Klobuchar: Whether new or an experienced professional, these are lawyers who have taken an oath to the constitution and whose loyalty is to the noble mission of the department of justice and not the politics of a particular president. I'm also very concerned about the grants and the funding and all of the activity of yesterday, which put a hold to keep our communities safe.
▶ 1:09:45Senator Klobuchar: I will put the rest of my statement on the record, I say thank you to my colleagues and I really do hope that miss bondi can show that independence that we value. I say this with hope, I'm very concerned, so I'm voting no, but she does have an opportunity in that independent role of the attorney general of the united states of america to stand up to this kind of illegal activity. Thank you.
▶ 1:10:12Senator: Thank you, senator klobuchar appeared I will recognize myself, and my colleagues, -- senator klobuchar. I will recognize myself, and to my colleagues, as she said in her confirmation hearing, her goal is to restore confidence in the department of justice, and this is a good thing.
▶ 1:10:34Senator: The american people are so fatigued with a two tiered justice system, and what they would like to see his equal justice for all. Something else I have appreciated is that she will crackdown on violent crime and push to make our cities and communities safe again.
▶ 1:10:58Senator: We have seen such an uptick in violent crime, it does not matter if it is memphis, chicago, or new york. Much of this is related to gangs that have entered our country. They are in our communities. Unfortunately, we have seen every town become a border town. Every state, a border state.
▶ 1:11:24Senator: And she realizes that this border security is national security, and they are going to have to work hand-in-hand on this to protect our country and to end the political cabal that has existed at the doj that we saw under the previous administration.
▶ 1:11:42Senator: The other thing I think is so significant is her career as a prosecutor, in knowing that she spent 18 years as a prosecutor before the eight years that she spent as florida's attorney general, so we are well aware that she is confirmed, and we look forward to that confirmation.
▶ 1:12:05Senator: And who -- senator hirono, you will recognize.
▶ 1:12:21Sen. Hirono: There were concerns that pam bondi would not have the independence to be attorney general and if confirmed, she will be the attorney general to a president to expects 100% loyalty from nominees.
▶ 1:12:38Sen. Hirono: The question is whether she will have the strength to stand up to a president and will review the office of attorney general this way, "I have the absolute right to do what I want with the justice department echo unfortunately, her answers to questions did not convince me she would be independent. For example, I asked if she agreed with the president's characterization of january 6 felons as hostages and patriots.
▶ 1:13:09Sen. Hirono: She refused to answer. Meanwhile, the president, we know, has a parting of these violent felons. I asked her in writing how she would resolve a conflict between a request from president trump and her duty to the constitution. She provided no response and left the answer blank. This refusal to even answer the question told me a lot.
▶ 1:13:38Sen. Hirono: We have already seen in the nine days since she took office that he has little regard for the law, he issued a non-blatantly -- a blatantly unconstitutional order and has ignored productions by firing expections general and board agencies and put in a hold on billions in federal funds and grants, to states and local governments
▶ 1:14:08Sen. Hirono: That provide support for our families and children and seniors. We need an attorney general who will tell him when his actions would break the law. Miss bondi will not be that person. So I cannot support her nomination. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:14:36Chair Grassley: Thank you.
▶ 1:14:42Senator: Colleagues, after carefully evaluating miss bondi's record and after her testimony before this communityi testimony before this communitye testimony before this communityt testimony before this communityo testimony before this communityt reservations about her ability to server -- to serve as independent attorney general who will put her to do to the constitution and to the american people above her loyalty to president trump. So for that reason I'm unable to support Ms. bondi's nomination to serve as our nation's chief law enforcement officer.
▶ 1:15:14Senator: And I say this after recognizing, through the course of our private meeting in my office, through the course of her testimony during her confirmation hearing, that there were some glimmers of potential agreement, areas that I would be hopeful to may be hopeful to maybe agree and work together, things like tackling the threat and dangers of human trafficking. Things like her positions on gun safety.
▶ 1:15:45Senator: Building on some of the work in the state of florida where she served as attorney general that seem to be common sense ideas that can and should be spread across the country. But instead of focusing on those, Ms. bondi kept on coming back to her unwillingness to answer some key questions. I remain deeply concerned about Ms.
▶ 1:16:10Senator: Bondi's willingness to go on national television and propagate lies about the results of a free and fair election, despite a total lack of evidence. I raised this during the hearing, colleagues, as you'll recall, not because they were political talking points that she was pushing that I happened to disagree with, but they were outright lies that pose a real threat to our democracy, a
▶ 1:16:40Senator: Threat to voters, and a threat to the election workers who dedicate themselves to administering our elections. I was specific, repeatedly offering Ms. bondi an opportunity to retract her statements during her confirmation hearing, and she continuously refused. Refused to state the simple fact that president trump lost state of pennsylvania in 2020 and lost the election.
▶ 1:17:13Senator: Remind us of this, colleagues, because it's important to remember that Ms. bondi was an associate at the time in 2020. Rudy giuliani has been disbarred for spreading the same lies. Same lies, Mr. giuliani disbarred. And now it seemed republican senators are on the verge of confirming Ms.
▶ 1:17:41Senator: Bondi to serve as attorney general of the united states despite peddling the same lies and her unwillingness to retract them. That should have been the easy part. Because no doubt Ms.
▶ 1:17:54Senator: Bondi will face far more daunting challenges as attorney general to shield the departments work and professional civil servants from politicization and weaponization that we have seen what has happened in the last couple of days as evidence of what will continue to happen. It is not hypothetical.
▶ 1:18:16Senator: Look at the presidents activities this last week alone, despite my colleague's assurances that he would refrain, president trump has issued nearly 1500 blanket pardons for january 6 insurrectionists and commuted the sentences of 14 of his supporters including those convicted of violence against police officers.
▶ 1:18:43Senator: Ump's appointees then fired several career department of justice lawyers involved in investigating and prosecuting him for his role in the january 6 insurrection and for his improper handling of documents. And now the acting U.S. attorney for the district of columbia already promised to investigate, the prosecutors who put the violent january 6 insurrectionists behind bars.
▶ 1:19:14Senator: That is the environment that pam bondi is about to enter, a difficult environment for any attorney general to act independently. And I was particularly struck by the fact that, despite practicing law for decades, two terms as attorney general of the state of florida, private practice experience, despite all of that, Ms.
▶ 1:19:41Senator: Bondi claimed to be unfamiliar with the 14th amendment and the citizenship clause within it. She and I discuss the very issue when we met one-on-one. It has clearly been in the news. When given the opportunity to discuss it during the hearing, here in public, she refused to answer.
▶ 1:20:08Senator: Even worse, offensively, either claimed that she needs to study, or telling me that she was not going to be doing my homework. In that moment, I was not asking her to do my homework, I was asking her if she did hers. Now we know why she avoided the topic.
▶ 1:20:30Senator: A couple weeks later, president trump has issued a blatantly, unconstitutional order seeking to strip birthright citizenship from americans who were born here. The law is clear. The constitution is clear.
▶ 1:20:46Senator: But what is increasingly clear is that, when push comes to shove, pam bondi is not the kind of person who will defend the constitution, defend the 14th amendment, or defend americans when the president instructs otherwise. The american people need and deserve to have faith that the department of justice enforces the law fairly, neutrally, and free from political interference.
▶ 1:21:15Senator: We need an attorney general who will push back against illegal, immoral, and unethical requests. Unfortunately, I don't believe Ms. bondi is up to the task. That being said, I do hope one thing. She seems very likely to be confirmed.
▶ 1:21:38Senator: I hope she proved me wrong for the sake of our country and for the american people, I hope she proved me wrong, but today I cannot support her confirmation. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Pam bondi is qualified.
▶ 1:21:56Senator: She has done outstanding work as an attorney general, both as a county prosecutor and as the florida attorney general, and I actually quite admire their grit that she had to take on a challenge statewide campaign to become attorney general. Number two, she had very good testimony from republicans and democrats about her managerial style. When I met with her, she was very engaging and responsive to the concerns I had about criminal justice. She is qualified.
▶ 1:22:29Senator: The question that we face as a senate is what kind of department of justice will we have? There has been a bipartisan recognition of the importance of independence at the department of justice. So will we have a department of justice that is independent, or will we have a department of justice that come in the words of president trump, is my department of justice? Where I have the right to do anything I want to do?
▶ 1:22:59Senator: There is no question about where president trump is going. Nine days into the president's administration, he is on a rampage, rampage in a reckless conduct and illegal conduct. The reckless conduct of course are these horrible pardons.
▶ 1:23:22Senator: People who grabbed the shields that police were using to defend themselves and then started battering police with them, stomping them, kicking them, spitting on them, and then these folks who are pardoned, they get out and they say they want to come back here, and they want those who certified the election for the president to be hanged. We have people pardoned, wanted for soliciting sex with a minor.
▶ 1:23:50Senator: Those pardons are so disrespectful to the men and women of law enforcement. It is absolutely despicable in my view. But then the illegal conduct, the president says he can do what he wants to do regardless of the law. One of the laws that I am so proud of is something, Mr.
▶ 1:24:13Senator: Chairman, you authored, and it is the inspector general's, and he fired them all despite the specific provision in the law that you wisely included, that there be 30-day notice. Clearly illegal. He did the same thing at the national labor relations board. There are specific statutory, legislative responsibilities if you want to remove a person. Just blew by it. Illegal.
▶ 1:24:41Senator: Then the shocking announcement about impoundment. Absolutely illegal, interfere with the constitutional right of the article one branch of congress to be the appropriator of funds. What he is doing is illegal. Then tiktok, we passed a law in congress, bipartisan, that it has to comply or be sold. The president picks and chooses and says, no, we are not applying the law.
▶ 1:25:11Senator: Illegal. At the justice department before the new ag is even there, the president has installed his personal lawyers, his personal lawyers. And they started doing dirty work, firing career prosecutors. So there is no mystery here about what the president is going to insist upon. It is that the doj be my law firm. That is what it is.
▶ 1:25:39Senator: And there is no question because, if past is prologue, goodbye attorney general barr, attorney general sessions when they didn't comply with the demands of an overbearing president. Now, I would like to think that pam bondi would have the ability to stand up because she is qualified, she is engaging, but I was very disturbed on the question from senator hirono.
▶ 1:26:10Senator: Who won the election? And she couldn't answer it. It was the trump permissible answer, that president biden is the president, but could not say that he won the election. That bodes poorly. Mr. chairman, that is the reason for my no vote.
▶ 1:26:34Senator: But this raises a question that I think we as the united states senate have to ask ourselves in view of the nine days of the reckless conduct and the illegal conduct of the president. Will we fulfill our constitutional role as a separate and independent branch of government to maintain the principle of separation of powers and checks and balances? Our founders knew that would be needed.
▶ 1:27:02Senator: What they didn't know is whether those who served in this position as united states senators would meet the challenge when the check and balance was needed. Thank you, Mr. chairman. I yield back. >> thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:27:22Senator: I want to begin by thanking you and ranking member durbin for the letter you sent to the president taking issue with the firing of more than a dozen inspector general's without the statutory required notice, case-by-case detail setting out the justification for why each was fired. I'm grateful for that important step toward accountability and affirming the law.
▶ 1:27:46Senator: Whether it is the firing of independent watchdogs or the impoundment of funds appropriated by congress for the american people, or attempts to amend the constitution by executive order, if we don't take steps to insist that the executive branch adhere to the laws that we pass, if instead we leave it all to the courts, we might as well go home. We will not be doing our jobs as the founders intended.
▶ 1:28:14Senator: On monday, acting attorney general james mchenry at the direction of the white house fired more than a dozen key officials who worked on special counsel check smith's team on cases involving president trump. Fired them, just like that. Also on monday the acting U.S. attorney in washington, D.C. and martin, a stop the steal advocate, election denier, initiated review of prosecutors in his own office for pursuing federal obstruction charges against january 6 defendants.
▶ 1:28:44Senator: The investigation of the investigators had begun. We are seeing similar purges throughout the federal government but these purges targeting independent government watchdogs, targeting career prosecutors, dedicated to the principle that no one is above the law, these purges are particularly significant because more than any other, they open the door to rampant corruption, malfeasance, and one-man rule.
▶ 1:29:12Senator: In a decision that will live in infamy, the supreme court of the united states has given the president immunity for crimes committed while in office. In the case of the justice department, that immunity is absolute.
▶ 1:29:26Senator: And the president will use it and any other invitation to lawlessness that we give him either in the form of a court decision like that one or permission, implicit or explicit, that we in this body give him to ignore the law, whether that law pertains to impoundment, inspectors general, federal employees, or anything else. As a bulwark for protecting the rule of law, no position is more important to the country than that of attorney general.
▶ 1:29:56Senator: And yet, as a spearhead to violate the rule of law and turn our justice system into a system of repression, no position is more important to a president than that of attorney general. Which is why the stakes are so high with this nomination. Against this backdrop, america needs and attorney general who will refuse to use the awesome power of the justice department against the president's enemies without any factual basis and simply because he wants them to.
▶ 1:30:29Senator: Someone who has the independence, stature, the strength of character to say no when she is asked by the president to do things that violate her oath and conscience. She must be willing to speak the truth to power, whether that power is the president of the united states or anybody else. Someone who understands she is the people's's lawyer, not the president's roy cohn. Judging by that standard and her testimony, pam bondi does not meet the test.
▶ 1:30:59Senator: She just doesn't. During her hearing, I asked Ms. bondi if she was advised that prepared to advise the president against blanket pardons to those involved in the january 6 insurrection, particularly for those who committed violent offenses and beat police officers. Ms. bondi told me that pardons are the discretion of the president and she would "look at every case." she said she would do so on a case-by-case basis. Of course, we know now it is too late for that.
▶ 1:31:31Senator: On his first day in office and with the stroke of a pen, president trump issued sweeping and unprecedented pardons to more than 1500 january 6 defendants, including those charged with assaulting law enforcement. During the hearing, I asked Ms. bondi whether she had a factual basis to investigate jack smith, one of the president's perceived enemies.
▶ 1:31:53Senator: After a prolonged effort to avoid the question, I asked again, tell us, are you aware of a factual basis -- predicate to investigate jack smith, yes or no? Senator, she said, what I'm hearing on the news is horrible. Are you aware, I tried again. She responded, do I know if he has committed a crime? I have not looked.
▶ 1:32:17Senator: She was not able to tell us what should be obvious, that she has no factual basis to investigate jack smith, but instead she told us what I'm hearing on the news is horrible. Do I know if he has committed a crime? I have not looked. If this was meant to be reassuring of her obedience to the law and not to the person or the president, it was not successful. What I'm hearing on the news is horrible, she said. Yes, it is. And I wonder why.
▶ 1:32:46Senator: Perhaps, just maybe, it is because this president has been filling the news with false attacks on jack smith for years. False attacks that have been endlessly amplified and repeated by others. If this kind of circular logic is what passes for a factual predicate for investigating the president's enemies, no one will be safe. Do I know if he has committed a crime, anomaly asked rhetorically, I have not looked.
▶ 1:33:15Senator: Implication is I do believe that she will look, but look at what, look for what? Look for a crime? This is not how the justice system is supposed to work. Her answer about jack smith was an aberration. I asked her about another favorite target of the president, liz cheney. Ms. bondi, the president also wants to jail liz cheney. Are you aware of any factual basis to jail liz cheney?
▶ 1:33:44Senator: She replied, that is a hypothetical and I will not answer the question. But is it really a hypothetical? After all the president has said and publicly about what he wants to see done with Ms. cheney? Perhaps she will look. I asked her if she could speak truth to power, whether she could confront the president with the laws of the 2020 election, and she could not or would not say yes.
▶ 1:34:13Senator: Having falsely suggested during the campaign as an advocate for the president that he won states like pennsylvania that he plainly lost, I asked if she could state as the plane record makes clear, that there was no massive fraud affecting the outcome of the 2020 election. She could not answer that question with a yes either.
▶ 1:34:35Senator: If she cannot state the obvious to this committee long after an election, how can we expect her as attorney general to speak plainly and accurately about an election in the future if it does not go her way or the way of her party? Finally, I asked Ms. bondi if she was ready to commit to preserve the evidence in the january 6 investigation. She was not ready to make that commitment or could not make that commitment.
▶ 1:35:03Senator: Apart from a vague commitment to follow the law, she could not even commit to preserving evidence of a crime. She said, "I will follow the law." well, that used to mean something but then I'm sure donald trump will say that he is following the law when he tries to amend the constitution by executive order. In fact, his justice department is saying just that. Experience is important, and as my colleagues have pointed out, I agree, Ms.
▶ 1:35:32Senator: Bondi is an experienced prosecutor. But independence, the willingness to speak truth to power, the willingness to say no when a president ask you to go after his enemies, these qualities are essential. Regrettably, Ms. bondi demonstrated none of these essential prerequisites for the job for the nation's top law enforcement officer. None. I voted no.
▶ 1:36:04Senator: Mr. chairman, I yield back.