▶ 0:15:31>> ladies and gentlemen, welcome . Before we get underway today I would like to take a brief moment to recognize the terrible loss of life that happened a few miles from here last night. Our hearts and prayers are with the family and friends who lost loved ones last night as well as the first responders still on the scene.
▶ 0:15:53I would like everyone to join us for a moment of silent prayer and reflection for those we have lost.
▶ 0:16:01Chair Cotton: Thank you. Next, I want to remind everyone in attendance here that while you are all welcome to observe today's hearing, I will not allow or tolerate disruptions from the audience.
▶ 0:16:19Chair Cotton: Audience members may not verbally or physically distract from the hearing including by shouting, standing, raising sign, making gestures that block the view of other members of the audience for those watching on television or online. Anyone who does so will be removed immediately by the capitol police and band from return.
▶ 0:16:43Chair Cotton: Welcome everyone to this hearing on president trump's nomination of tulsi gabbard to be the director of national intelligence. Welcome to the senate intelligence committee. I also want to welcome your family in attendance today including your husband, abraham, mother carol, and your sister.
▶ 0:17:04Chair Cotton: I also want to acknowledge some very special friends of yours, dakota myers and pat payne, both medal of honor recipients. I extend my deepest thanks to you and heroes with whom you served.
▶ 0:17:23Chair Cotton: [applause] also note that our next attorney general, pam bondi, is joining us. Apparently she didn't have enough fun at her own confirmation hearing. Welcome and congratulations.
▶ 0:17:53Chair Cotton: Finally, former senator and chairman of this committee will introduce her shortly. We look forward to your remarks. It is fair to say her nomination has generated a bit more interest and attention than most nominees before this committee. I want to stress that miss gabbard has been and will be treated with the exact same respect, consideration, professionalism extended to every nominee, no more, no less.
▶ 0:18:28Chair Cotton: That is how we treated john radcliffe two weeks ago and how we treated dni nominees in the past. She has conducted dozens of office meetings with senators. She has committed the standard questionnaire. Answered 247 questions in writing. This is all in keeping with the committee's customs, precedents, rules.
▶ 0:18:57Chair Cotton: Before I address the important work ahead, please let me make two observations about some of the observations -- accusations. First, I'm dismayed by the attacks on her patriotism and her loyalty to our country. For instance, hillary clinton has smeared miss gabbard, calling her an asset of a foreign nation.
▶ 0:19:25Chair Cotton: Let me remind everyone that miss gabbard has served in our army, she has multiple combat tors. She still wears the uniform to this day. She has undergone five fbi background checks. I spent more than two hours looking at the latest, putting eyes on more than 300 pages. It is clean as a whistle.
▶ 0:19:54Chair Cotton: It is fine that we have differences of opinions. I suspect some of my republican colleagues might disagree with some of her votes in the house of representatives. Just as I suspect some of my democratic colleagues might criticize miss gabbard's statements since she saw the light and left the democratic party.
▶ 0:20:20Chair Cotton: I sincerely hope no one today will question her patriotism and integrity. Some might say she has unprofessional views. Her criticism of barack obama, egypt, libya.
▶ 0:20:48Chair Cotton: I oppose the disastrous intervention -- interventions as well. A longtime american partner and egypt was a linchpin of our security system in the middle east. Scared straight after we toppled the taliban. Turned over his weapons of mass destruction and cooperated against terrorists. In turn, we lifted sanctions.
▶ 0:21:15Chair Cotton: President obama intervened and toppled both regimes. What came next? The muslim brotherhood in egypt and dangerous chaos in libya. No one ever mistook them as little sisters of the poor, let's not kid ourselves, the world is a dangerous place, not a church picnic.
▶ 0:21:42Chair Cotton: She saw the problem with regime change interventions in these places. The past number of governments are not democratic. We may wish it were different but that is the way the world is. If we only befriended nations and shared our system of government and our social and cultural sensibilities we would not have many friends.
▶ 0:22:11Chair Cotton: We have to take our friends where we find them. Stable democracies make what matters in the end is less whether a country is democratic or nondemocratic and more weather the country is pro-american or anti-american. I will confess those views may be somewhat unconventional. Look where conventional thinking has got us.
▶ 0:22:39Chair Cotton: Maybe washington could use a little bit more on conventional thinking. I'm sure the office of the director of national intelligence could use more unconventional thinking. The measure of your success will largely depend on whether you could return oh dni to its original size, scope, mission. Congress created the odni, we intended to put one office in charge.
▶ 0:23:11Chair Cotton: Congress intended it to be a very lame organization that would use small staffs to execute specific tasks. Congress in no way wanted another unruly bureaucracy layered on top of an already bureaucratic intelligence community. 20 years later, that's exactly what it has become. Incredibly, odni is now larger than any agency it was established to manage.
▶ 0:23:43Chair Cotton: It has 15 offices and centers that have many subunits. Odni staff is measured in the thousands when it should be measured in the dozens or the few hundred. I promise that is going to change. I intend to get personnel and odni back to home agencies doing real intelligence work, not bureaucratic work. I also expect to cap the size of odni.
▶ 0:24:13Chair Cotton: If confirmed, I hope you will be a partner in these vital efforts. Another example is what is come to be known in the community as dni taxes. They levy these taxes on other agencies shifting and directing funds away from the intelligence communities core mission to the fancies of any particular dni. That practice which ran rampant under director haynes is also going to stop.
▶ 0:24:45Chair Cotton: If confirmed, you have a lot of work ahead of you. I'm committed to ensuring that we see it. I will recognize senator risch for a brief statement.
▶ 0:25:01Sen. Risch: I appreciate that and I want to thank miss gabbard for meeting with me and having the candid conversation that we did. I have to chair the foreign relations committee today on blind influence of china here at home and abroad. I will not be able to stay for the full hearing or ask questions.
▶ 0:25:27Sen. Risch: We have a closed session immediately following upon the security of the country and as a result of that, they need to be done in a classified setting. I will need to be excused to preside over the other committee.
▶ 0:25:46Chair Cotton: You are excused.
▶ 0:25:51Sen. Risch: I was going to leave whether you excuse me or not.
▶ 0:25:54Chair Cotton: I will recognize the vice chairman, senator warner.
▶ 0:25:59Sen. Warner: I've spent most of the morning at the national airport. It's a horrible tragedy. The victims families are still being notified. For those of us who live in this region, it is always kind of complicated. We have virginia, D.C., maryland.
▶ 0:26:30Sen. Warner: Last night when this tragedy took place I happen to be driving by on the way home and saw all of the first responders rushing to the scene. People came from as far away as baltimore, fairfax county. Dod and federal officials there, these first responders as always ran towards the tragedy. There will be a time to figure out how it happen. Today, our thoughts and prayers are with the families.
▶ 0:27:02Sen. Warner: Thanking our first responders. Miss gabbard, welcome and congratulations on your nomination to be the next director of national intelligence. I would like to begin by thanking you for your decades of public service. Both in uniform as a member of congress in hawaii. I applaud your continuing commitment to sure -- serve. The president has nominated you to be the director of national intelligence.
▶ 0:27:35Sen. Warner: Most full probably don't understand the importance of this position. You would lead 18 agencies. You will also serve as the principal advisor to the president, the national security council, homeland security council for all intelligence matters. And in this role you will be responsible for over $100 billion between the national intelligence program and the military intelligence program.
▶ 0:28:09Sen. Warner: It's a position of great importance and significance created after one of our worst national security failures, 9/11. When congress established this position, thanks in large part, it mandated that any individual nominated must have extensive national security expertise.
▶ 0:28:40Sen. Warner: I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me. I continue to have significant concerns about your judgment and qualifications. First, the dni was created to make sure we had proper intelligence.
▶ 0:29:06Sen. Warner: It was to not only share information between dic but also with our allies. There's no legal requirement that allies share intelligence with us. It's all predicated on trust. Trust that our allies will protect each other seek. It appears to me you have repeatedly excused our adversaries worst action.
▶ 0:29:34Sen. Warner: Instead often blame them on the united states. You blame nato for russia's 2022 invasion of ukraine. You rejected the conclusion that assad used chemical weapons in syria despite it being a unanimous assessment within the trump administration dod, as well as the assessment for european allies. Instead, you blame the united states for supporting terrorist groups in syria.
▶ 0:30:05Sen. Warner: I don't know if your intent was to defend the terrorists or if you were simply unaware of the intelligence and how your statements would be perceived. In either case, it raises serious questions about your judgment. It also leads me to question, if you could develop the trust necessary to give our allies confidence that they could share their most sensitive intelligence with us.
▶ 0:30:36Sen. Warner: Make no mistake about it. If they stop sharing that intelligence, the united states will be less safe. We have seen this as recently as last year. Countless lives were saved by disrupting a terrorist attack that was going to take place at the taylor swift concert.
▶ 0:31:02Sen. Warner: Second, you have been publicly outspoken praising edward snowden. Someone who betrayed the trust of our nation and jeopardize the security of our country. The truth is, the vast majority of the information he stole and leaked before running off to china and russia. It had nothing to do with americans privacy. It compromised our most important sources and methods.
▶ 0:31:32Sen. Warner: In many ways, we are still paying a price for that. It put our men and women in uniform at risk. You celebrated him as a plate -- brave whistleblower.
▶ 0:31:49Sen. Warner: Given the opportunity to clarify your position in prehearing questions you expressed the dni has no role in determining whether or not edward snowden is . That is troubling to me in so many ways.
▶ 0:32:13Sen. Warner: Not only do you think someone who diebold secrets and ran off to russia should be celebrated as brave, you don't seem to understand the dni's role in determining whistleblower determinations. The dni has a significant role in transmitting lawful whistleblower complaints. They are all weighed out right here in the statue.
▶ 0:32:41Sen. Warner: I would have serious concerns about confirming someone who cannot distinguish between complaints made lawfully and those that are not. The statute says the job of the dni is to protect intelligence sources and methods.
▶ 0:33:00Sen. Warner: What message would send to have a dni that would celebrate the work or a contractor that would on their own mission decide what's appropriate to week? -- leak? Until recently you had a clear and consistent record of opposing -- I know members on this committee already understand how important this is.
▶ 0:33:31Sen. Warner: This law is critical to our national security. 60% on average of what goes into the president's daily brief, what president trump will read each day comes from this important piece of law that allows us to seek out those foreigners abroad for coverage.
▶ 0:33:59Sen. Warner: It has helped prevent terrorist attacks, foreign cyber attacks, a lot of folks looking at fentanyl trafficking. Many on the committee have tried to reform this legislation. However, you have consistently gone further.
▶ 0:34:23Sen. Warner: Not only did you vote against reauthorizing, you introduce legislation to fully repeal the whole thing. Calling it "a blatant disregard for our fourth amendment constitutional rights." I understand that since you have been nominated you have expressed a change of heart. I think that is welcome.
▶ 0:34:49Sen. Warner: I have to tell you, I view this as a job interview and tried to make my judgment. I don't find your change of heart credible. The world today is more complex and dangerous than ever before. Serious people with sufficient experience to navigate that complexity. I hope you use this opportunity to address my concerns.
▶ 0:35:15Sen. Warner: I appreciate your service and I'm looking forward to a thorough discussion. Thank you.
▶ 0:35:20Chair Cotton: Thank you Mr. vice chairman. We welcome back senator richard burr, the former chairman of this committee to introduce miss gabbard, in retirement he still seems unable to find a pair of soft. Nonetheless, we welcome you back.
▶ 0:35:46Mr. Burr: Some things are very predictable. Members of this distinguished committee, I want to thank you for allowing me to join you today to provide my thoughts and support on behalf of tulsi gabbard's nomination to be director of national intelligence. This is my first visit back to the senate in two years.
▶ 0:36:09Mr. Burr: Permit me to say from this side of the dais, you are not as intimidating as I thought when I was on your side. When I was chairman, senator warner and I stuck to a single reframe with our staff. Followed the facts wherever they wheat.
▶ 0:36:31Mr. Burr: Today, an anonymous person or group launching a campaign using rumors and accusations as fact can drive the outcome of an election and of public opinion. I sat in your chair for the russia investigation where we frowned -- found fictitious narratives driven by russia.
▶ 0:36:58Mr. Burr: Some of you may be wondering why do I support tulsa gabbard and why am I here to introduce her as a nominee? I have experienced firsthand a coordinated attempt to influence this nominees support in the senate and with the american people.
▶ 0:37:19Mr. Burr: I was contacted by several national journalists asking me to confirm one of the many rumors circulating about this nominee, I informed each journalist that the rumors shared with me were simply not true. This narrative was shared from one journalist to the next journalist, I assume today they ran out of journalists. This was a coordinated effort to kill this nomination.
▶ 0:37:52Mr. Burr: Advising consent is the responsibility of the united states senate. I think each member takes it seriously. All members were offered the opportunity for individual meetings. If you chose not to meet, it is on you. I have done my homework. Tulsi gabbard's historic life began at birth. She is the first american samoan born member of congress, period.
▶ 0:38:21Mr. Burr: She graduated from hawaii pacific university with a degree in business administration with a concentration in international business. In 2002 she became the youngest woman in america ever elected as a state representative. That was not enough in 2003, she joined the national guard.
▶ 0:38:43Mr. Burr: When deployed, her opponent raise the issue could you serve the people that elected you if in fact you were deployed? What did she do? She withdrew from her reelection campaign to continue to serve our country in the war on terror. This would not be the first or last time she put her country above her career.
▶ 0:39:15Mr. Burr: After multiple employments and serving in the city council, she was elected to the house of representatives where she served four terms. Throughout her political career she maintained her military service either in the national guard or army reserve. Media stories and anonymous rumors questioned her qualifications, patriotism, and whether she could be trusted.
▶ 0:39:44Mr. Burr: I refused to question the qualifications of a woman who has warned the uniform -- worn the uniform of our nation. The department of defense reviewed her security clearance and extended it. Every single time. If tulsi is guilty of anything, her views, opinions, beliefs have evolved to reflect her life's experiences.
▶ 0:40:13Mr. Burr: Winston churchill once said those that never change their mind, never change anything. She served her city, state, country while winning the support of the people she represented. She has fought in war and yes she has tried to stop wars. At the age of 43, she has the life experiences that match or exceed most members of congress.
▶ 0:40:46Mr. Burr: She was serving in uniform three years before some of us here today voted to create the director of national intelligence. Chairman cotton, members of the committee, it is my honor to support and introduce to the committee lt. Col. Tulsi gabbard. Thank you. [applause]
▶ 0:41:14Chair Cotton: Thank you. Now our colleague, senator joni ernst of iowa has taken a few minutes to be here to introduce miss gabbard as well.
▶ 0:41:26Sen. Ernst: Thank you, good morning to my distinguished colleague. I also do want to take a moment to recognize the lives lost in the collision near dca last night. My prayers are with the victims families and their loved one. Thank you. Duty, honor, service.
▶ 0:41:59Sen. Ernst: These are not just words. They are principles that have guided lt. Col. Gabbard. As a young enlisted soldier, tulsi answered the call to duty upon her deployments to the middle east. From graduating at the top of her class from the accelerated officer candidate school at the alabama military academy, the first woman to do so.
▶ 0:42:31Sen. Ernst: Serving as the youngest member of hawaii's legislature. She upheld honor while breaking barriers in uniform and in her civilian leadership roles. Today she demonstrates her commitment to service by sitting before this committee prepared to answer the nations call once again. This time as the next director of national intelligence.
▶ 0:43:04Sen. Ernst: Paul c and I share similar backgrounds. Both to our nation and to our communities. We have worn the same uniforms serving in the army national guard. Leading battalions and deploying to iraq and kuwait. We both had the privilege of serving in our state legislatures and in congress.
▶ 0:43:41Sen. Ernst: Cole c exemplifies what it means to rise above partisanship, putting the needs of the american people over political divisions. She put her own life on the line in combat operation and now has set aside partisan differences as a former democrat member of congress to answer the call to serve in a republican administration.
▶ 0:44:10Sen. Ernst: The mainstream media has fought to paint their own picture of tulsa gabbard. Let's talk about the real tulsi gabbard. The woman and the soldier who I have come to know and respect. I know her for the past decade. Relationships matter.
▶ 0:44:35Sen. Ernst: In 2015, then congresswoman gabbard met my dear friend, a dear friend of mine from iowa state university. Oh and was a wounded special operations warrior who embodies the resilience and strength of our military community.
▶ 0:44:57Sen. Ernst: Owen was the subject of an attack in afghanistan where he lost his leg and his left eye serving in the war. During this attack, owen was tossed into the den pile. Bleeding and in excruciating pain cried out to his teammates I'm not dead.
▶ 0:45:26Sen. Ernst: Thankfully his fellow war fighter attended to owen. The road to recovery was long and hard including a stint at walter reed medical center. During this time he met a fellow warrior and patriot who became a friend and today they remain in touch. Owen prides himself on being a very good judge of character.
▶ 0:45:56Sen. Ernst: Cole cotulsi, he speeds volumes of your character. His final message was tusi has maintained her same way throughout her career. She always makes time for our old, broken warriors. Colleagues, I will leave you with this.
▶ 0:46:25Sen. Ernst: You know me, I trust tulsi gabbard. She will be honest with you. She will listen to your concerns. She will be receptive to your feedback. Rest assured, lieutenant col. Gabbard loves this country.
▶ 0:46:53Sen. Ernst: A fact proven by her willingness to put her life on the line to defend it. For over 20 years she has put on the uniform and checked her political views at the door. With one mission in mind, to protect and defend our great united states of america.
▶ 0:47:18Sen. Ernst: Tulsi, duty, honor, service have marked your life. Thank you for your extraordinary dedication to our nation, for embodying the values that make our military the best in the world, and stepping up to serve once again as president trump's director of national intelligence. Relationships matter.
▶ 0:47:49Sen. Ernst: I urge my colleagues to support this nomination. My best wishes to you and your family. God bless our country. Thank you. [applause]
▶ 0:48:01Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator ernst. I know senator ernst has a busy schedule. I'm sure senator burr has to go on a fishing trip or something.
▶ 0:48:28Chair Cotton: Before we moved to york opening statement -- your opening statement we must ask obligatory questions to all nominees. You swear to give this committee your full and truthful testimony?
▶ 0:48:42Ms. Gabbard: I do. >> if confirmed to do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the committee and designated staff?
▶ 0:48:52Ms. Gabbard: Yes. >> do you agree to provide documents or materials requested by the committee for it to carry out its oversight?
▶ 0:49:02Ms. Gabbard: I do. >> will you ensure your office and staff provide material to the committee when requested? >> yes.
▶ 0:49:13Chair Cotton: Do you agree to inform all members of this committee of all actions?
▶ 0:49:22Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 0:49:24Chair Cotton: We welcome the opportunity finally to hear from you in your own words.
▶ 0:49:32Ms. Gabbard: Before I begin, I too would like to start by offering my prayers and condolences to those who were killed in last night's horrific crash. Senator warner, senator moran, our prayers are with you and all of your constituents. Chairman cotton, vice chair warner, it is an honor to be here before you today.
▶ 0:50:04Ms. Gabbard: The opportunity to meet with so many of you and address your concern. I'm grateful to senators burr and ernst for their taking time to join us today. To my husband, family, friends, medal of honor recipients, thank you for your love and support.
▶ 0:50:27Ms. Gabbard: I'm honored and grateful to president trump for his trust nominating me to serve as the director of national intelligence. Chuck schumer admitted a few years ago, you take on the intelligence community and they have six ways from sunday of getting back at you. For too long faulty equipment have led to costly failures and the undermining of our national security in the constitution.
▶ 0:51:01Ms. Gabbard: The most obvious example of one of these failures is the invasion of iraq based on a complete failure of intelligence. This decision led to the deaths of tens of thousands of american soldiers, millions of people in the middle east, the undermining of european allies, the rise of isis, other groups and strengthening iran.
▶ 0:51:32Ms. Gabbard: Here are a few other examples. The american people elected donald trump as president not once but twice. The agencies are politicized to undermine his presidency and falsely portray him as a puppet of putin. Title I was used illegally to spy on carter page using a false dossier as so-called evidence.
▶ 0:52:00Ms. Gabbard: Tony blinken was the impetus for the 51 former officials dismissing hunter biden's laptop as this information specifically to help fight and win the election. Former dni james clapper lied to this committee in 2013 that facilitated millions of americans phone and internet records.
▶ 0:52:30Ms. Gabbard: Under his leadership the cia abused its power to spy on congress, dodge oversight, lied about doing it until he was caught and has never been held responsible. The fbi used its power for political reasons to surveilled catholics who attended traditional latin mass.
▶ 0:52:53Ms. Gabbard: Personally, just 24 hours after I criticized kamala harris I was placed on a terror watch list called quiet skies. Sadly, there are more examples. The bottom line is this, this must end. President trump's reelection is a clear mandate to break the cycle of failure in the weaponization of the intelligence community and begin to restore trust in those who have been charged with the critical task of securing our nation.
▶ 0:53:24Ms. Gabbard: If confirmed I will do my very best to fulfill this mandate and bring leadership to the intelligence community with a laser focus on our essential mission. As the president's principal intelligence advisor I will begin by leading by example.
▶ 0:53:48Ms. Gabbard: Checking my own personal views at the door that is collected, analyzed and reported without bias, or political influence. I am listed in the army because of the terrorist attack on september 11 and volunteered in 2005 where I served in a medical unit. After 22 years in uniform with three combat deployments I'm now a lt. Col.
▶ 0:54:15Ms. Gabbard: Where I serve as a battalion commander in oklahoma, missouri, arkansas. The foreign affairs and armed services committees, to my experience in the military in the halls of congress that have given me a deep understanding of complex challenges in both roles engaging with world leaders, privy to highly classified intelligence, I know firsthand
▶ 0:54:45Ms. Gabbard: How essential accurate to the president, congress, war fighters. I know the heavy cost of intelligence failures. Senator collins, you led the creation specifically to address those failures of the so-called wmd's. The need under strong leadership still exists today.
▶ 0:55:15Ms. Gabbard: If confirmed I will bring my experience and fresh eyes to leading the intelligence community and my priorities will be to assess the global threat, identify where gaps and intelligence exist and increase sharing and that unbiased political objective collection and analysis to support policymakers occur.
▶ 0:55:42Ms. Gabbard: I will work to end the politicization of the community and make sure there is a core focus of this core mission to secure our nation. I will work to rebuild trust through transparency and accountability. This is a national security imperative.
▶ 0:56:09Ms. Gabbard: To ensure it is on our core mission of national security. In my meetings I have had you have expressed bipartisan frustration about the lack of responsiveness, whether it was the surprise october 7 attack failures to identify the source
▶ 0:56:40Ms. Gabbard: Of covid, drones, and more, I look forward to working with you to address these issues. Ensuring the safety, security, and freedom of the american people as a mandate of leadership that right is -- rises above partisan politics.
▶ 0:57:00Ms. Gabbard: To you and the american people is this, I will do my very best to find the truth no matter where it leads, and share that truth with president trump, his advisors, and you and congress providing you with that timely and accurate intelligence as you make the tough decisions that will impact the safety, security, of american people. I want to warn the american people working at home.
▶ 0:57:34Ms. Gabbard: Those who oppose my nomination that I'm loyal to something or someone other than god, my own conscience, the constitution of the united states. Not recognizing the absurdity of simultaneously being the puppet of five different puppet masters . The same tactic was used against president trump and failed.
▶ 0:58:07Ms. Gabbard: The american people elected president trump with a decisive victory and mandate for change. What unsettles my opponents is I refuse to be their puppet. I have no love for any dictator. I just hate al qaeda. Minimizing them through so-called rebels.
▶ 0:58:35Ms. Gabbard: Al qaeda is on our side in syria. Led by an islamist jihadist who danced in the streets on 9/11 and is responsible for the killing of many american service members.
▶ 0:58:54Ms. Gabbard: Democrat senators resorted to anti-christian bigotry against president trump's judicial nominees, I condemn those actions at the time as religious bigotry must be condemned by all of us no matter the religion. Unfortunately, there are some democrat senators who don't understand the principles of freedom of religion.
▶ 0:59:24Ms. Gabbard: No religious test shall ever be required to any office of the united states. They are once again using the religious bigotry card and trying to use it against them. If anyone is sincerely interested in knowing more about my own personal, spiritual path, I welcome you to go to my account where I will share more on this topic.
▶ 0:59:53Ms. Gabbard: If confirmed I will continue to live by the oath that I have sworn at least eight times in my life. Both in uniform and as a member of congress. I will support and defend our god-given freedoms against all enemies foreign and domestic. I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. Thank you very much for your time.
▶ 1:00:23Ms. Gabbard: I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:00:24Chair Cotton: A few reminders, our five-minute minute round of questioning first, a reminder to the audience I will not tolerate disruptions or disturbances in favor of or opposition of miss gabbard. We all came to hear from miss gabbard, not from you. We will have a five minute round of questions, not 5.5, not six.
▶ 1:00:53Chair Cotton: We will also have a closed session after this hearing where we will have another opportunity to ask questions. If any question begins to approach the line of classified material, we will ask you to hold the question.
▶ 1:01:14Chair Cotton: >> I was under the understanding that in the open round, we agreed of certain members needed to ask a question in the public setting, that would be?
▶ 1:01:29Chair Cotton: If a member waits until the end of the opening-round and has a follow-up question we will open it up. Miss gabbard, if confirmed you will be entrusted with our most important secrets. We are all entrusted to serve the american people. As you said, we have seen too many instances of people who were trusted with classified information and politicize that trust.
▶ 1:02:00Chair Cotton: In october, 2020, many intelligence officers wrote a letter invoking their credentials to make false claims about hunter biden's laptop likely being russian disinformation, do you agree this was an example of intelligence officials politicizing their past credentials?
▶ 1:02:20Ms. Gabbard: Yes, I do. It is an example of what needs to end and why the american people elected president trump.
▶ 1:02:33Chair Cotton: No one who uses this in this fashion will hold a security clearance?
▶ 1:02:39Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 1:02:41Chair Cotton: Thank you. Such abuses aren't a problem on the left. Also in 2020 john bolton published a book in which he revealed conversations with the president on national security matters including highly classified information. Do you agree john bolton's actions likewise undermined public trust?
▶ 1:03:05Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 1:03:07Chair Cotton: No one who abuses this past position and risk the exposure by publishing the book, not submitting it for review will hold a security clearance again or will be trusted again?
▶ 1:03:21Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 1:03:23Chair Cotton: Let's move on to the topic of odni reform. Congress originally envisioned odni to be a small agency that reflects rather than replicates the 18 constituent agencies that make up our community. Over the years the odni has strayed to an organization that publicly boasts 2000 people.
▶ 1:03:47Chair Cotton: More than half of whom are not detailed from an intelligence agency what they are career bureaucrats. They have developed senators producing their own analysis. We work with this committee to restore the odni to its original size, scope, function?
▶ 1:04:10Ms. Gabbard: If I assess the current status of who was working the odni and the function they fulfill and its elimination of redundancies are global.
▶ 1:04:22Chair Cotton: Do you support some of the policy proposals I mentioned in my statement about capping the size of the odni? Eliminating odni taxes? So they could do real intelligence work?
▶ 1:04:37Ms. Gabbard: I look forward to working with you as we assess wet -- what odni needs to be in its core function.
▶ 1:04:46Chair Cotton: In your preparation for this hearing have you developed any thoughts on the mission creed we have seen at odni in recent years?
▶ 1:05:04Ms. Gabbard: I spoke to the first director of national intelligence as well as others who have served in this position, there are other contributing factors to the creation of centers and offices like the recently eliminated office of d.e.I. Within odni.
▶ 1:05:26Ms. Gabbard: Other areas where I need to go in and assess the replication and duplication of responsibilities that exist elsewhere and some of the other elements that odni has oversight over.
▶ 1:05:39Chair Cotton: Thank you. I will lead by example and give back one minute of my time and recognize the vice chair.
▶ 1:05:51Sen. Warner: That is a first. I salute your service to your country. I have serious doubts about your judgment. First, until you were nominated by the president to be dni, you consistently praise the actions of edward snowden.
▶ 1:06:19Sen. Warner: So when I believe jeopardize the security of our nation and then fled to russia. You called edward snowden "a brave whistleblower." every member of this committee supports the rights of legal whistleblowers.
▶ 1:06:39Sen. Warner: In this case, I'm a lot closer to the chairman's words where he said snowden is an egotistical serial liar and trader who deserves to rot in jail for the rest of his life. It's a simple yes or no question, do you still think edward snowden is brave?
▶ 1:07:02Ms. Gabbard: Edward snowden broke the law, I do not agree with or support with all of the information and intelligence he released nor the way that he did it. There would have been opportunities for him to come to you on this committee or seek out vig to release that information.
▶ 1:07:22Ms. Gabbard: He also even as he broke the lot released information that exposed egregious and unconstitutional programs that are happening within our government that led to serious reforms that congress undertook
▶ 1:07:36Sen. Warner: I take your answer, these are your quotes, brave, please join my bipartisan legislation calling for charges to be dropped. You -- do you disagree that legislation was not appropriate? Do you back those words?
▶ 1:08:02Ms. Gabbard: Edward snowden broke the law. He released information that exposed the government's --
▶ 1:08:12Sen. Warner: Are they still your beliefs, yes or no?
▶ 1:08:17Ms. Gabbard: I'm making myself very clear, edward snowden broke the law, he released information about the government. If I may just finish my thought, senator. In this role I have been nominated for, as director of national intelligence I will be responsible for protecting our nation secrets and I have four immediate steps I would take to prevent another snowden life leak -- like leak.
▶ 1:08:51Sen. Warner: I agree with tom cotton, he is a traitor. You for years have celebrated this guy is brave. You have called for him to be pardoned, for charges to be dropped. I cannot imagine a director of national intelligence that would say that kind of behavior is ok.
▶ 1:09:16Sen. Warner: How would we maintain trust of who we work for? How would we maintain the trust of our partners? 702 it is critical to our national security. 60% of the president trump gives every day will come from you. You have a long history of opposing 702. Many members of congress have.
▶ 1:09:50Sen. Warner: You actually, you don't want to reform it, you say you want to repeal it. Now, a conversion, or whatever, you call 702 vital. Significant pfizer reforms have been enacted since you left office.
▶ 1:10:09Ms. Gabbard: In the short time that I have, senator, I will just know that my actions and legislation in congress were done to draw a the egregious civil liberties violations that were occurring at that time.
▶ 1:10:28Sen. Warner: I asked you a question. Please give me the courtesy of responding.
▶ 1:10:33Ms. Gabbard: There are a number of reforms that all of you --
▶ 1:10:39Sen. Warner: My time is getting short, but I have to tell you, after the reforms were passed into law in april of 2020 four, you went on joe rogan's podcast in may. The bill is now law. And you said "this bill took an already bad problem and made it many, many times worse.
▶ 1:11:09Sen. Warner: Again, in my mind, this is a question of judgment. 702 it is critical. I appreciate this late conversion, but I'm not sure I buy it, because -- again, rather than standing up to dictators like putin and assad, you sometimes amplified his talking points. I don't understand how you can blame nato for putin's brutal invasion of ukraine.
▶ 1:11:40Sen. Warner: And when assad used chemical weapons against his own people, you did not condemn him. You actually questioned americans' intelligence. You mention a lot about trust.
▶ 1:11:54Sen. Warner: One of the things I'm so proud of on this committee, with senator britt instead, I say on this committee, most vital of what we do is work on a bipartisan manner. We work to earn trust.
▶ 1:12:18Sen. Warner: But I respectfully, ma'am, I just don't believe come on your judgment and credibility issues, that this is the appropriate role you should take going forward. Thank you, Mr..
▶ 1:12:29Chair Cotton: Senator collins.
▶ 1:12:33Sen. Collins: Thank, Mr. chairman. Ms. gabbard, particularly grave harm to our national security is done by revealing top-secret information, including sensitive sources and methods thus jeopardizing agents in the field. So let me ask you a question.
▶ 1:12:57Sen. Collins: If confirmed, would you support or recommend a pardon or any kind of clemency for edward snowden?
▶ 1:13:09Ms. Gabbard: Thank you for the question, senator collins. If confirmed as a director of national intelligence, my responsibility would be to ensure the security and would not take actions to advocate for any actions related to snowden.
▶ 1:13:27Sen. Collins: So the answer is no, is that correct?
▶ 1:13:29Ms. Gabbard: Correct.
▶ 1:13:32Sen. Collins: In 2020, you introduce to be protected brave whistleblowers act, which would amend the espionage act to make it more difficult to prosecute individuals who reveal classified information.
▶ 1:13:49Sen. Collins: In particular the bill would allow individuals to disclose even top-secret information, as long as it is not done with the specific intent to injure the united states for damage in a foreign nation.
▶ 1:14:08Sen. Collins: Your bill would also have created an affirmative defense if public disclosure of classified information were made for several reasons, one of which was to expose gross waste of funds. I strongly oppose this legislation, which would hamper our ability to prosecute people who give our adversaries classified information, so let me ask you this, Ms.
▶ 1:14:38Sen. Collins: Gabbard, do you still support providing individuals who have access to top-secret information with the ability to make their own decisions regarding whether that information should be publicly disclosed, even though disclosure may cause tremendous harm to our country or out allies?
▶ 1:15:05Ms. Gabbard: Senators, we cannot and should not have individual vigilantes within the community, making their own decisions about how and when to expose our nation's secrets. The intent of the legislation that you have pointed out was pointed toward ensuring due process for those who are charged under the espionage act in a court of law.
▶ 1:15:31Ms. Gabbard: This is a law that have been abused in some cases and used for political cases. President obama charged more people under the espionage act then all other presidents combined.
▶ 1:15:47Ms. Gabbard: If confirmed as the director of national intelligence, my sole focus and goal will be our nation's security, which includes ensuring the security of our nation's secrets, and I would work to make sure we don't have any disclosures or vigilantes taking it upon themselves.
▶ 1:16:05Ms. Gabbard: There are numerous legal paths that will protect this information for those who feel they have concerns, and I look forward to working with you on this committee in making sure that those protections are known by every single person in the workforce, and effectively implemented.
▶ 1:16:22Sen. Collins: So you do not support allowing individuals to make their own decisions without authorizations to disclose secret information?
▶ 1:16:35Ms. Gabbard: Yes, and I believe we have a legal structure in place for those who have concerns to address them.
▶ 1:16:42Sen. Collins: As you know, there have been speculation in the press that you met with hezbollah, a terrorist organization affiliated with iran. Have you ever knowingly met with any members, leaders, or affiliates of hezbollah?
▶ 1:17:04Ms. Gabbard: N o, and it is an absurd accusation.
▶ 1:17:10Sen. Collins: Let me ask you one final question in the short time we have left. With hamas, isis-k, the houthis, all the iranian proxies in syria, iraq, yemen, and al qaeda all opposing general resurgence is in the middle east, africa, and central asia, I am alarmed at the lack of focus by the
▶ 1:17:41Sen. Collins: I.c. On this threat to our safety. We do not want to have to call you back to this room after a terrorist attack and ask, how did the I.c. Miss this? Great power competition, china, russia, definitely pose threats to our country, but the terrorist threat is arguably the most imminent threat, according to former fbi director chris
▶ 1:18:13Sen. Collins: Ray. If confirmed, what would be your strategy to refocus the I.c. On the terrorist threat to our country and to americans abroad?
▶ 1:18:26Ms. Gabbard: Thank you, senator, I agree with your assessment, and this speaks for the need for the odni to exist, to redirect those resources, identifying the gaps in intelligence, so that we are able to get ahead of these threats instead of coming around after the fact and trying to assess, why did we not know about this sooner, so that we could have taken action to prevent it?
▶ 1:18:50Chair Cotton: Senator wyden.
▶ 1:18:52Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much. I'm going to try to get four questions in. I will be brief, and if you can reset the crate, that would be appreciated. We've been talking about section 702, and I believe it is critical that the dni support additional reforms to protect the privacy of law-abiding americans.
▶ 1:19:16Sen. Wyden: In your written response to committee questions, you wrote, and I quote, "warrants should generally be required if a foreign agency undertakes a query of section 702." is this your current position?
▶ 1:19:34Ms. Gabbard: Yes it is, senator, and as you will note in that written response, I noted some circumstances in which there may be other options, but I also want to make a note that a simple warrant requirement will ultimately be a policy decision you will make.
▶ 1:19:53Sen. Wyden: My time is short. I'm glad you answered in my with your written answer that you support a warrant. Section 702 also involves a huge loophole that included recently that could allow the government I could force anyone with access to a wi-fi router or cable box to secretly participate in the warrentless surveillance program. Do you support them as I do, illuminating this language?
▶ 1:20:22Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I would have to look at what the existing safeguards are and look back to you in congress as you look at reauthorization.
▶ 1:20:30Sen. Wyden: Is a massive loophole, and I hope you will be supportive of my effort. Let me turn now to the inspector general situation. Can the president of united states refuse to fund the inspector general for the intelligence community despite appropriations from congress? I would like a yes or no.
▶ 1:20:51Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I do not know about the legal authority, but I understand the essential role that the inspector general's play, and look forward to empowering our inspector general to fulfill the responsibility.
▶ 1:21:06Sen. Wyden: Good. Because congress either have the power of the purse or it does not, and I think in your answer to me, you recognize that you have an independent obligation to follow the law. I think that is a constructive answer. Let me turn now to the matter of spying on journalists.
▶ 1:21:26Sen. Wyden: He wrote in a response to the committee questions that you support the biden administration's apartment justice policy restricting collection of records, and you call for the codification of those restrictions. Will you reconfirm that position this morning?
▶ 1:21:38Ms. Gabbard: I believe strongly in the first amendment, which protects a free press.
▶ 1:21:45Sen. Wyden: So you will continue to support the policy about.
▶ 1:21:50Ms. Gabbard: I'm not specific with the specific biden administration policy, but I'm for the defense of the first amendment.
▶ 1:22:02Sen. Wyden: It's a policy that restricts collection of reporters records, and you have called for the codification of those records, so I'm going to accept that you are not changing your position, and I appreciate it. I got time I think for one more question. While you were in congress, you introduced legislation prohibiting the government from mandating that americans phones or apps include mechanisms to allow the government to bypass encryption or other privacy technology. In your written responses to the committee's questions, you reconfirm your oppositions to these mandates. Is that still your position?
▶ 1:22:32Ms. Gabbard: Yes. The back doors lay down a dangerous path that can undermine americans' fourth amendment rights and civil liberties.
▶ 1:22:41Sen. Wyden: You would be very helpful by moving so quickly. Let me turn to whistleblowers. You wrote any response that whistleblowers will have clear, protective channels to report concerns, including unauthorized transmittal buzzed by information to appropriate entities, such as members of congress. Do you agree that I.c. Whistleblowers must have a clear path to this committee and that they do not need permission from agencies to talk to us? That's a yes or no.
▶ 1:23:06Ms. Gabbard: Senator, the answer is clearly yes. If confirmed as director of national intelligence, number one, make sure we do not have illegal and unconstitutional programs within the intelligence community. Making sure that we enact security clearance reforms to limit access to our nation goes a top secret, make sure every single person in the workforce understands their rights as whistleblowers and the legal channels to take, which would include coming directly to you as members of congress.
▶ 1:23:40Ms. Gabbard: As well as establishing a drug hotline to myself should they choose to take that path.
▶ 1:23:47Sen. Wyden: Sen. wyden: one last question if I might come up with you support the conservation of the committee's full report on the cia torture program?
▶ 1:23:51Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I believe in transparency. I have not seen this and cannot make an honest assessment to that answer.
▶ 1:24:02Sen. Wyden: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:24:05Chair Cotton: Senator cornyn.
▶ 1:24:08Sen. Cornyn: Welcome, Ms. gabbard, and thank you for your service to our nation. I hope you will take to heart the chairman's comments about the exploding bureaucracy, not only in the government generally but in the office of the director of national intelligence. This is a critical role to be played, but, unfortunately, that role is not made easier or more effective by such a large, unwieldy bureaucracy.
▶ 1:24:38Sen. Cornyn: Do you believe that the president of the united states should get all of the lawfully collected intelligence that is available in order to inform his judgments as commander-in-chief?
▶ 1:24:48Ms. Gabbard: Senator, not only is the answer is wrong yes, I was eight is the director of national intelligence's responsibility to make sure the president has access to all of the intelligence so he can make the best informed decisions for our country.
▶ 1:25:03Sen. Cornyn: You will be the one briefing him on a daily basis, correct?
▶ 1:25:08Ms. Gabbard: That is correct.
▶ 1:25:09Sen. Cornyn: And the president's daily brief is composed of about 60% of it, composed of information gleaned by collection under section 702 of the foreign intelligence surveillance act. I've heard your comments to senator wyden and others.
▶ 1:25:30Sen. Cornyn: You and I have talked about the importance of getting dissenting views in front of the president, so that we don't have groupthink, which can be very dangerous, particularly in the intelligence collection areas. And I appreciate your agreeing, that presenting the policymakers, including the president, with dissenting views is very important.
▶ 1:25:57Sen. Cornyn: Are you aware that overwhelmingly the courts that have looked at a challenge to section 702, based on the fourth amendment, and any potential warrant requirement have overwhelmingly said that the fourth amendment is not implicated by a surge of lawfully collected intelligence?
▶ 1:26:14Ms. Gabbard: I am aware, senator, yes.
▶ 1:26:18Sen. Cornyn: And do you disagree with that?
▶ 1:26:21Ms. Gabbard: When I began to say and an answer to senator wyden's previous question on this issue is number one, the decision about a warrant requirement will be yours to make.
▶ 1:26:31Sen. Cornyn: You will be the director of national intelligence, and people will be wanting to hear from you about what we should do as policy makers. Admittedly, you're not going to be a policymaker, but you certainly will inform us. You do agree that the courts have overwhelmingly held that a warrant is not required, correct?
▶ 1:26:56Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator, I'm aware of the court rulings. I want to make sure we hold the fourth amendment rights of americans can protect against unlawful seizure and search. There are many different ways to do this. The devil is in the details. There are examples about how even in situations under title I where a warrant --
▶ 1:27:22Sen. Cornyn: Title I is different, I agree with you. But that was misused in the case of carter page, and basically an fbi lawyer lied in order to secure that warrant. What would be necessary to be shown in order to establish probable cause to a judge in order to obtain a warrant?
▶ 1:27:47Ms. Gabbard: Again, senator, that's not for me to say. That would be for you all to decide for the attorney general to weigh in on.
▶ 1:27:55Sen. Cornyn: Do you know what the elements of probable cause are and whether that is a practical and workable solution?
▶ 1:28:02Ms. Gabbard: This is the center of the base -- of the bay. The high center of probable cause mad why this will continue to be a conversation, again, with the attorney general weighing in at all of you in congress making this policy decision.
▶ 1:28:17Sen. Cornyn: The cia director, john ratcliffe, said during his testimony before this committee but he believes that a warrant is not only required by law but is actually impractical. Do you disagree with that or agree with that?
▶ 1:28:34Ms. Gabbard: I will be in a better position to make an assessment on the practical applications of this, if confirmed, at dni.
▶ 1:28:46Sen. Cornyn: Where would the warrant be sought? Would it be in the foreign intelligence surveillance court or in some article three court?
▶ 1:28:57Ms. Gabbard: My understanding as it would be in the foreign intelligence surveillance court.
▶ 1:29:02Sen. Cornyn: Are you aware that the foreign intelligence surveillance act court has held that a warrant is not required?
▶ 1:29:09Ms. Gabbard: I am aware.
▶ 1:29:11Chair Cotton: Thank you. Senator heinrich.
▶ 1:29:20Sen. Heinrich: Assam and his brother elliott accompanied you to lebanon and syria. They have links to the nationalist party, an ally of hezbollah. The syrian social nationalist party participated in the assassination of a former lebanese prime minister and assisted in beirut.
▶ 1:29:48Sen. Heinrich: When did you become aware of the link between the brothers?
▶ 1:29:54Ms. Gabbard: Thank you for the question. A point of equivocation, I pay for my own expenses and travel on that trip. I was unaware of any accusations of these two lebanese american associations until after the trip occurred.
▶ 1:30:14Sen. Heinrich: Is that when you were reimbursed?
▶ 1:30:15Ms. Gabbard: Correct. I want to make sure there were no perceived conflicts of interest. I address this specific question to the lebanese americans who had organized the trick, and they vehemently denied any associations with that group.
▶ 1:30:32Sen. Heinrich: There is not a great deal of the public record about what you and syrian dictator bashar al-assad discussed for so long and january 2017, and I think there's a great deal of interest from the american people about what was discussed in that meeting.
▶ 1:30:56Sen. Heinrich: So what did you talk about, and did you discuss things like the use of chemical weapons, systematic torture, and the killing of so many?
▶ 1:31:05Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator, upon returning from this trip, I met with people like then later nancy pelosi and steny hoyer, talk to them and answer questions about the trip, and, quite frankly, I was surprised that there was no one from the intelligence committee who reached out or showed any interest whatsoever that I would have been happy to have a conversation and give them a back brief.
▶ 1:31:36Ms. Gabbard: I went with former congressman dennis kucinich, who had met with them before. To directly answer your question, yes, I asked him tough questions about his own regime's actions, the use of chemical weapons, and the brutal tactics that were being used against his own people.
▶ 1:31:57Sen. Heinrich: Were you able to extract any confessions from president assad?
▶ 1:32:01Ms. Gabbard: No, and I did not expect to, but I felt these issues were reported to address.
▶ 1:32:08Sen. Heinrich: According to your revised trip report, your third meeting in syria after meeting with assad and his wife was with greg movie ahmad -- gran mufta hamad hassoun. He warned the U.S.
▶ 1:32:31Sen. Heinrich: And europe that we will "prepare suicide bombers already in the country if you bomb syria or lebanon." what was the goal or what was the that's what did you accomplish after meeting witht t I made it a point to meet with various christian and catholic leaders in the region.
▶ 1:33:02Sen. Heinrich: I did that both in syria and lebanon, to hear from them about what their concerns and thoughts were with regard to the war that was being raged at the time.
▶ 1:33:12Sen. Heinrich: Were you aware of threats regarding suicide bombers in the united states?
▶ 1:33:15Ms. Gabbard: I was not and had not heard that until today.
▶ 1:33:20Sen. Heinrich: Who vetted the people that you met with on this trip to syria and lebanon?
▶ 1:33:24Ms. Gabbard: The itinerary was created by former congressman dennis kucinich, his constituents, who he had traveled with to syria and lebanon a number of times before. Some of the individuals that I met with were looked up prior to the trip. Others came up during the trip that were unexpected.
▶ 1:33:48Sen. Heinrich: Just in complete hindsight, would you view this trip as good judgment?
▶ 1:33:53Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator, and I believe that leaders, whether you are in congress, can go in and engage boots on the ground, learning and listening to my meeting with people whether they be adversaries or friends.
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Heinrich: Last question, who do you blame, who is responsible for the war in ukraine?
▶ 1:34:13Ms. Gabbard: Putin started the war in ukraine.
▶ 1:34:17Sen. Heinrich: Thank you.
▶ 1:34:18Chair Cotton: Before your questions that I want to extend our condolences in particular to you for your loss of life, your fellow kansans last night in that air crash. All of our prayers are with you and people back home who lost loved ones.
▶ 1:34:32Senator Moran: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Everybody has been very kind expressing their condolences, and I appreciate that in this setting right now. Lieutenant colonel gabbard, you are asked in your questionnaire about your priorities, and you listed iran and hamas and hezbollah, north korea. You also mentioned russia.
▶ 1:34:57Senator Moran: But the only thing you said about russia in explaining why it is a priority is ending the war with russia. When you talk about russia, what are your fears or priorities? How do you see russia as a threat to the united states?
▶ 1:35:23Ms. Gabbard: Senator, if confirmed as the director of national intelligence, it will be imperative for me to assess where our intelligence gaps exist, so I can provide the president and all of you would be most accurate, full picture of the threat assessment, to directly answer your questions. I think it is a complex environment. Russia remains a strategic competitor.
▶ 1:35:51Ms. Gabbard: There are a number of concerns that have to do with their nuclear weapons, as well as how the decisions and policies that are being made by this body and the president will impact our own national security, which is my foremost concern.
▶ 1:36:06Sen. Moran: I want to make certain that in no way does russia get a pass in either your mind or your heart, or in any policy recommendation you would make or not make.
▶ 1:36:18Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I'm offended by the question, because my sole focus, commitment, and responsibility is about our own nation, our own security, and the interest of the american people.
▶ 1:36:34Ms. Gabbard: In carrying out the responsibilities of director of national intelligence, if confirmed, no country, group, or individuals will get a pass in my fulfilling of that responsibility come of providing that full intelligence picture, so that you can make the best informed policy decisions for the safety, security, and freedom of the american people. You have my commitment to be completely objective, unbiased, and a political, and I hope you understand my commitment to our country's interests.
▶ 1:37:05Sen. Moran: I absolutely do. You answered my question in the manner in which I wanted to hear, that you will do this in an objective manner, provide the information, and russia, is a threat, you will tell us so and tell us the details of that threat.
▶ 1:37:23Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:37:24Sen. Moran: How will you instruct the director of national intelligence framework to better align with president trump's national security goals?
▶ 1:37:32Ms. Gabbard: This is a question I look forward to discussing with the president and his security advisor, based on his priorities. He has spoken about a number of different priorities in different parts of the world. I would work with them on that national intelligence priorities framework, which will serve as the foundation for the intelligence elements under odni .
▶ 1:37:55Sen. Moran: Any recommendations you have in mind to make president trump in that regard?
▶ 1:38:00Ms. Gabbard: I want to make sure that any recommendations I make to the president are fully informed. From where I sit now, I don't believe that I can make those recommendations. I take that responsibility seriously and would not want to shortchange him without first doing the due diligence and work to make sure my recommendations are well-founded.
▶ 1:38:18Sen. Moran: How will you, lieutenant colonel, as the dni, if confirmed, made the objectivity required to assure the white house what they need to hear and not what they want to hear? A follow-up to that is, how will you handle conflicting intelligence reports from the various members of the intelligence community? And present a broad intelligence picture to the president?
▶ 1:38:46Ms. Gabbard: Thank you for the question, senator. I hope that you have confidence in my ability to extract politics from what my role will be as director of national intelligence, because it is something I've done for almost 22 years now, wearing the uniform, both serving in the national guard and the army reserve, even while holding political office. There's a brick wall between the two, and I have fulfilled that obligation as I will as director of national intelligence if confirmed.
▶ 1:39:17Ms. Gabbard: I know the president values hearing a lot of different views, and I would make sure that in the intelligence community's responsibility is that dissenting views are not only allowed but encouraged, and where they present themselves, make sure the president and U.S. policymakers are aware so that you can make your best informed decisions.
▶ 1:39:36Sen. Moran: Would you agree with me that bias and prejudiced if it existed in a place exists both sides of an issue, both partisan sides of this place called washington, D.C., and the goal, the effort that you will make is to make certain that all the information is presented in a nonpartisan, direct, and manner based upon the facts?
▶ 1:40:01Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator, I agree, and you have my commitment. This is essential for the american people to have faith and trust in the intelligence products that are being delivered.
▶ 1:40:18Sen. Moran: When our greatest challenges is knowing who is telling the truth, and we need a dni who tells the truth.
▶ 1:40:20Ms. Gabbard: Yes. I have a long record of speaking truth to power, and I will continue that commitment if confirmed in this role.
▶ 1:40:26Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator moran. Senator king.
▶ 1:40:30Sen. King: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Ms. gabbard, I want to applaud your service both in the military and in the congress, two very challenging jobs, and I want to thank you for that. I noted that edward snowden was in hawaii of all places for a year and a half, before he fled to hong kong and then onto russia.
▶ 1:40:52Sen. King: Did you ever meet him or have any contact with him during that period, for subsequently come up with telephone calls, emails, zooms?
▶ 1:41:03Ms. Gabbard: No, senator, not at any time have I had contact with edward snowden.
▶ 1:41:08Sen. King: You it introduced a bill in 2020 that was essentially a pardoning. It basically said all charges should be dropped. You had a lot of "whereas" I that bill. Where is the basis for where the whereas clauses come from?
▶ 1:41:28Ms. Gabbard: Senator, if I recall, it came from publicly available information.
▶ 1:41:33Sen. King: I see. Were you aware that there was a bipartisan committee report from the house intelligence committee in 2016 on snowden's activities?
▶ 1:41:46Ms. Gabbard: I don't recall specifically at time, but I am aware of the committee's report, an executive summary that was reported publicly. I did not have access to the classified report of summary was based on.
▶ 1:41:59Sen. King: Did you read that report prior to filing your bill in 2020?
▶ 1:42:03Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I don't recall specifically I remember reading a lot of materials prior to filing that bill.
▶ 1:42:11Sen. King: The bipartisan committee report, the first item, edward snowden perpetrated the largest and most damaging public release of classified information in U.S. intelligence history. He goes on to say snowden caused tremendous damage to national security and the vast majority of the documents he still have nothing to do with programs impacting individual privacy. But you don't recall ever seeing the work of that committee.
▶ 1:42:40Ms. Gabbard: I'm aware of those conclusions drawn.
▶ 1:42:44Sen. King: Were you aware at the time?
▶ 1:42:47Ms. Gabbard: Yes I was, senator. Edward snowden broke the law. There's no question about that. You should not have released all of that information that caused that harm. There's no question about that. I know that he took over one million documents. I don't know specifically how many of those millions specifically released.
▶ 1:43:06Sen. King: Well, you stated unequivocally today, "snowden broke the law," but you introduced a bill in congress to essentially pardon him. He broke the law, but it was not all that serious? Is that what you thought it 2020?
▶ 1:43:27Ms. Gabbard: I take seriously our constitution, and I florida north -- I've sworn an oath to defend the constitution eight times in my life. The egregious and illegal programs that were exposed in that week.
▶ 1:43:38Sen. King: But you ignore the vast majority, as the committee found, bipartisan, I think senator nunez was the chair from adam schiff was the vice chair. The vast majority of things he released had nothing to do with constitutional rights to the fourth amendment but indeed were enormous compromises of our national security.
▶ 1:44:04Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I focus on raising concerns running agree just on programs or government was conducting back clearly violated american's first amendment rights.
▶ 1:44:18Ms. Gabbard: The most important thing that I hope all of you find to be relevant here is that if confirmed as director of national intelligence, I would take seriously the' responsibility to protect our nation secrets, just as I have for almost 20 years of holding a security clearance of some sort myself, either secret or top secret, and I've never once violated the responsibility and privilege that comes with holding back clearance.
▶ 1:44:44Ms. Gabbard: I have a specific action plan in place to make sure there's not another snowden type leak in the future.
▶ 1:44:48Sen. King: I think you testified you never saw the classified version of this report.
▶ 1:44:52Ms. Gabbard: That's correct.
▶ 1:44:54Sen. King: On page 22 of the report, there's a heading that is not classified as that "what damage did snowden cause?" and there's a lot of reductive material. Did that not raise a red flag for you? Or do you not recall?
▶ 1:45:08Ms. Gabbard: Edward snowden broke the law. Like I said, I did not have access to the classified --
▶ 1:45:15Sen. King: Did you seek access to it?
▶ 1:45:20Ms. Gabbard: I believe so, yes. This was quite some time ago.
▶ 1:45:21Sen. King: But you still introduce your bill to essentially --
▶ 1:45:29Ms. Gabbard: I think very seriously the protection of american civil liberties union fourth amendment rights. As confirmed as director of national intelligence, I would make sure there's no further snowden type leak in the future, and of those who have concerns have legal challenge have legal chal channels to release those.
▶ 1:45:45Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator king. Time has expired. Senator lankford.
▶ 1:45:51Sen. Lankford: Is good to see you again. Thank you for the time that we were able to spend together. Thanks for your service to the country both in congress, though you were in the wrong party at the time, and your service to the country for your service there, including in my great state of oklahoma. I want to give you an opportunity here today, and I want to put some context.
▶ 1:46:16Sen. Lankford: There's been a lot of questions about 702 and a lot about snowden combat it may seem like this is repetitive to come through it, but there are thousands of intelligence employees and folks that have also taken an oath to the country and the constitution. They serve our country everyday. They are the folks who don't have a uniform on, that no one ever says thank you to them, and no one ever buys them lunch, because people don't know who they are. But they, every day, but their lives on the line, they were hard to predict americans.
▶ 1:46:52Sen. Lankford: And when edward snowden got mad at his employer that he did not get the promotion that he wanted and started harvesting information, and then found some things that he did not like on it, and then kept going, and then release them to the media and went to china, and then went from china to russia, and became a russian citizen and continue to be able to layer out intelligence, unrelated to the civil liberties of any american, and then said "I have more, and I can release them anytime I want," they don't see him as brave.
▶ 1:47:22Sen. Lankford: They see him as a traitor. And the concern among so many here, and I think what I a lot of the folks in the intelligence community that you would have the responsibility to oversee, they want to hear that you believe the same pay, not only that he broke the law, but that he is a traitor. They don't want that to happen again combined all the sources they have been entrusted them and they trusted, now their lives are at risk.
▶ 1:47:52Sen. Lankford: At all the programs that they had that were determined lawful all collapsed, and that intelligence then was gone, and the president did not have access to a lot of information for decision-making. So this is a big deal to everybody here, because it is a big deal to everybody in the field and also oversees in that role as well, so it is helpful to be able to hear your heart on that. So, was edward snowden a traitor?
▶ 1:48:15Ms. Gabbard: Senator, my heart is with my commitment to our constitution and our nation security. I have shown throughout my almost 22 years of service in the military as well as my time in congress how seriously I take the privilege of having access to classified information and our nation secrets.
▶ 1:48:38Ms. Gabbard: That's why I am committed, if confirmed, as director of national intelligence, to join you in making sure there's no future snowden-type leak, and I would do so by taking four specific actions. Number one, again, to make sure there are no illegal and unconstitutional programs, limiting in a big way those who have access to our nation's top secrets, making sure every single person in the
▶ 1:49:08Ms. Gabbard: Workforce knows about the whistleblower channels available to them, and that they have a direct line to me. People choose to step outside of those legal channels to raise concerns about programs or actions that existed in the intelligence community that are caused by, they will be no excuse to do so, they should be charged and prosecuted under the law.
▶ 1:49:34Sen. Lankford: Was he a traitor at the time when he took american secrets and ran to china and became a russian citizen?
▶ 1:49:36Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I focus on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again.
▶ 1:49:41Sen. Lankford: So you would have the responsibility to give counsel to be president, which is a great privilege. You already have his ear, quite frankly, and y'all have a great relationship on that, which is beneficial. But when president trump decided to take the strike of soleimani, he was also going through a basement at the house. You were kind of tough on him at the time on that. If you called it a declaration of war.
▶ 1:50:07Sen. Lankford: He said the sole of my strike would lead to an outcome that would further undermine our national security -- you said the soleimani strike would lead to an outcome that would further undermine our national security. He was acting in a way that he came out, when soleimani was preparing a strike on american citizens, and those folks who were in the field at the time. I guess the question that I have is, odni will sit with the president, will provide options to be president, and say here are the options that you could take.
▶ 1:50:43Sen. Lankford: Would you have presented a soleimani strike at that time, saying this is an option you could take?
▶ 1:50:49Ms. Gabbard: Thank you, senator. If confirmed as director of national intelligence, I would make sure the president has all the objective analysis and intelligence reporting that he can best make better informed decisions, including all the options and actions he has available to him, which should exist alongside an assessment of what the possible repercussions or responses to those actions make be.
▶ 1:51:14Ms. Gabbard: My own personal views have no place in that assessment and that providing to the president and his advisers with all of those options available.
▶ 1:51:24Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator lankford. Senator bennet.
▶ 1:51:30Sen. Bennet: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I would like to repeat my colleagues questions to you. Thank you for being here to answer these questions and for your service. Was edward snowden a traitor to the united states of america?
▶ 1:51:44Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I will also repeat my answer. He broke the law --
▶ 1:51:50Sen. Bennet: You said earlier you were offended by a question that my colleague asked, which I think was his duty, as somebody on this committee, to fulfill his responsibility to advise and consent. We are not here to be a rubber stamp for the president of the united states.
▶ 1:52:11Sen. Bennet: So let me ask you, again, do you believe, as the chairman of this committee believes about the vast majority of members of our intelligence believe, that edward snowden was a traitor to the united states of america?
▶ 1:52:24Ms. Gabbard: Senator, if confirmed --
▶ 1:52:27Sen. Bennet: This is where the rubber meets the road. This is not a moment for social media. This is not a moment to propagate theories, as conspiracy theories, or attacks on journalism in the united states, this is when you need to answer the question for the people whose votes you are asking for to be confirmed as the chief intelligence officer of this nation!
▶ 1:52:59Sen. Bennet: As my colleagues, this is not about you, it is about the people that serve the intelligence agencies of the united states! Is edward snowden a traitor to be united states of america? That is not a hard question to answer when the stakes are this high!
▶ 1:53:19Ms. Gabbard: Senator, as someone who has served in uniform --
▶ 1:53:23Sen. Bennet: Yes or no, it is edward snowden a traitor to the united states of america?
▶ 1:53:28Ms. Gabbard: As someone who --
▶ 1:53:31Sen. Bennet: This is --
▶ 1:53:34Ms. Gabbard: I understand how critical our national security --
▶ 1:53:39Sen. Bennet: Apparently you don't! Let me ask you come I've worked very hard to put your own words here in front of the committee, not, you know, fake news, not conspiracy theories on the internet, but the actual things that you have said. On february 23, 2022, at the very moment that russian tanks were rolling across the peaceful border of ukraine for the first time, you tweeted at 11:30 p.m.
▶ 1:54:09Sen. Bennet: Your time, "this war and suffering could have easily been avoided if the biden administration/nato has simply acknowledged russia's legitimate security concerns regarding ukraine's becoming a member of nato." did you say that? Yes or no.
▶ 1:54:30Ms. Gabbard: I believe you are reading my tweet, senator.
▶ 1:54:33Sen. Bennet: Yes is the answer. A few months later, you said on your podcast, "but this regime changed war against russia that the U.S. and nato are waging by their proxy in ukraine did not begin one who did invaded ukraine. They had their eyes set on this objective long before that." did you say that, yes or no?
▶ 1:54:58Ms. Gabbard: I believe you are reading my tweet.
▶ 1:54:59Sen. Bennet: Thank you. The answer is yes.
▶ 1:55:01Ms. Gabbard: You are recording a podcast.
▶ 1:55:04Sen. Bennet: I would be happy to have a conversation with the chairman about whether I'm taking anything out of context. I don't think I am, and your answer is yes. Are you aware that your comments about proxy wars and russia's legitimate security concern to quote your own words, are in alignment with what the russians have said to justify their invasion of ukraine? Yes or no.
▶ 1:55:33Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I don't pay attention to russian propaganda. My goal --
▶ 1:55:38Sen. Bennet: I will take that -- thank you -- that's fine. You said you are used to speaking truth to power. I'm shocked to hear you now say that, you know, you are agree -- I'm not shocked, because I know you said it -- you are agreeing, that you basically said putin was justified in rolling over the peaceful border of ukraine.
▶ 1:56:04Sen. Bennet: The first time since world war ii that a free nation has been invaded by a totalitarian state, and you were there at 11:30 p.m. That night to say that you were with them, not us. Let me tell you something. You say you don't know because you don't read russian propaganda, russian state tv that aired your comment. Did you know that?
▶ 1:56:27Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I think you should also put up the statement that I made criticizing putin for his invasion of ukraine.
▶ 1:56:33Sen. Bennet: What I would say, Mr. chairman, it is up to all of us. We are the senate. We get to decide whether we are going to confirm this nominated obviously we did not select this nominate. But can't we do better than somebody who does not believe in 702?
▶ 1:56:53Sen. Bennet: Can't we do better than someone who can't answer whether snowden was a traitor five times today, who made excuses for vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine, the first time that I'm aware of any elected official has done that? I'm questioning her judgment.
▶ 1:57:14Sen. Bennet: That's the issue that is at stake here, and as you said, and I totally agree, this is about our intelligence officers, and you cannot answer -- most of what we do here is in secret. This is one of the very few opportunities that you will ever have to have a conversation with this panel in public, and the record is going to be very clear about the position you took with regard to edward snowden, and the record is going to be very clear about your reaffirmation
▶ 1:57:45Sen. Bennet: Of the statements you made in the middle of the night when russia was invading the free country of ukraine. And I hope you will take that into consideration when we have this vote.
▶ 1:57:56Chair Cotton: Senator bennet, your time has expired. I will note that during senator bennet's question and answer, there were two disturbances in the room. The first was a cell phone. I would ask everyone on both sides of the dais, if you have not silenced or turned off your cell phone, please do so now. The second disturbance was the cry of a small child. We will welcome such disturbances, because the cries of an infant are the sound of answered prayers.
▶ 1:58:39Sen. Rounds: Thank you for your service to this country. As you can see, we feel very strongly about five and 702. We were with it literally every day. As you can also tell, we have some very strong feeling fear with regard to the actions of edward snowden. I want to come back, and I will give you an opportunity to make any questions or to make any other comments with regards to both of those issues that have been brought up here.
▶ 1:59:05Sen. Rounds: But before I get into that, I want to go back into a little bit of your previous history as well. You did serve in hawaii, you served as a congressperson for, what, eight years?
▶ 1:59:18Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:59:20Sen. Rounds: During that time, you served out the armed services committee could during that time period, you did carry a clearance. You work through that time, had an opportunity to collect a lot of information.
▶ 1:59:39Sen. Rounds: Can you share a little bit about not just as a member of the congressional delegation of hawaii, and also at which time you were a you were able, lieutenant colonel, to serve. Talk about those.
▶ 1:59:59Ms. Gabbard: Senator, thank you for the question. In both of those roles, I had a look at how critical our national security is, and the role our intelligence community plays in entering our national security.
▶ 2:00:14Ms. Gabbard: My most recent deployment with the military was part of the joint special operations task force to djibouti and somalia, where our mission was to support the summer lee's government -- somalian government come up against an element in east africa.
▶ 2:00:35Ms. Gabbard: One of the things we came across that I did not even know previously having served in congress for eight years, because it had not been focused on, was how al-shabaab specifically was the biggest funder of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, which, again, should be of unique concern and interest to our own national security concerns.
▶ 2:00:58Ms. Gabbard: Being able to engage in both leaders -- with both leaders, being a customer of intelligence in both of those roles, gives me unique perspective, if confirmed as director of national intelligence, to with fresh eyes, to come in with the frustration of the lack of information we receive from the intelligence community, often times feeling as though everything we heard a neighbor he could have been bred in a newspaper that want to come and
▶ 2:01:29Ms. Gabbard: The essential oversight role you play in congress, you are unable to do so unless you are equipped with that intelligence a information. I'm committed to fulfilling that was a possibility if confirmed as director of national intelligence.
▶ 2:01:40Sen. Rounds: When you and I first met, I told you that I thought you needed to kind of take a change in the direction that you were going to figure out how you work approaching private conversations. We wanted you to sit out and meet with some folks who were directly involved in gathering the intelligence and so forth. You did that. Then we came back and sat back down again.
▶ 2:02:04Sen. Rounds: And what those individuals, who I talked to and I ask you to talk with, shared with me that they thought you were a quick study, and you have the opportunity to look at a number of the issues that this committee considers to be extremely sensitive, 702 in particular.
▶ 2:02:19Sen. Rounds: I've got about a minute left, but I want to give you an opportunity, in front of this committee, to share your position in your own words about how strong or how much it is needed with regard to the continuation of 702 and your support for accurate Ms.
▶ 2:02:35Gabbard: Thank you, -- for it.
▶ 2:02:38Ms. Gabbard: Thank you, senator. 702 provides a unique tool and capability that is essential for our national security. There are a number of areas that we would be blind, from a national security perspective, without this capability. It also must exist next to having safeguards in place to ensure americans' civil liberties are protected. As you know, it is illegal under 702 to target any U.S. person.
▶ 2:03:08Ms. Gabbard: There are several other sections within fisa that speak to some of the civil liberties reforms that you all passed in last year's legislation.
▶ 2:03:18Sen. Rounds: Let me finish with this. 702 in its current form stays in effect for the next year. You would agree that there were reforms made which fix a number of the items that you had a problem with, is that correct?
▶ 2:03:33Ms. Gabbard: It is correct, senator, and some of those are forms you enacted were specific to some of the legislation that I introduced back when I was in congress, such as prohibiting the collection as well.
▶ 2:03:46Sen. Rounds: Thank you.
▶ 2:03:48Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator rounds. Senator gillibrand.
▶ 2:03:53Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you, Ms. gabbard, for your service in congress and our U.S. military good I want to talk about your perspectives on china. How do you view china in a good national security role?
▶ 2:04:06Ms. Gabbard: Our relationship with china is complex, given how closely our economies are linked, there are a number of challenges and threats they need to be navigated with respect to china, some of which have come up most recently with a very serious cyber exploitation insult typhoon and bull typhoon -- salt typhoon and bolt typhoon , an area of significant and great concern.
▶ 2:04:35Sen. Gillibrand: Some of your past statements that are relevant to china are concerning, because I don't think it fully appreciates china and the united states, for example with regards to tiktok your your past statements of essentially said that requiring domestic ownership of tiktok is a violation of civil liberty is come up can concerns are complete bs.
▶ 2:05:08Sen. Gillibrand: Can you explain why you have as you want tiktok?
▶ 2:05:09Ms. Gabbard: The position I previously make them obviously not as a member of congress come as you consider the tiktok legislation, were centered around the protection of americans' first amendment rights, and the lack of data privacy information, frankly, that would apply to tiktok, facebook, x, all of these different social media applications that collect on us as users of these applications.
▶ 2:05:38Ms. Gabbard: There were provisions within that legislation that granted very vague and grandiose authorities to the president on deciding which private companies are or are not a national security threat.
▶ 2:05:58Sen. Gillibrand: Let's talk about china specifically, because I want to make sure you understand what is at stake. We had concerns over many years that with china's own infrastructure, it can manipulate that infrastructure, can use it for spying, to turn it on and off, and to actually address some of the most recent china attacks -- cyber attacks in china have relevant participation. China owns tiktok. That means they can spy on the united states, american people. It can change the narrative about what people are talking about.
▶ 2:06:29Sen. Gillibrand: These are algorithms. If it was to create misinformation or maligned point influence, it is very easy. Can you understand why it is so important that we require domestic ownership of tiktok?
▶ 2:06:38Ms. Gabbard: I understand the concern, senator, I would just reiterate some of my concerns that I stated in the past about how this really is an issue about data privacy, because so much of what is collected by all of these, even U.S. ownership can be sold to any country.
▶ 2:06:57Sen. Gillibrand: I get it, and that is a bigger issue for congress to wrestle, and I'm all in on that conversation, but I want you to appreciate china. What is your view in regard to taiwan? Do you think it is something that your intelligence effort will understand how important our relationship is with taiwan, specifically on chips manufacturing? I think president trump has most recently decided to have 100% tariffs on chips from taiwan.
▶ 2:07:27Sen. Gillibrand: Your statement on the bill we passed some the c.h.I.p.s. Act, to make sure domestic production is invested in, that we have the supply chain, but your public statements have been very negative. I don't think you appreciate how important that independence is for our national security to be beholden to china, to be beholden to taiwan, to be in a place where we can't do our own national intelligence.
▶ 2:07:51Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator, I fully support the investment in building and strengthening our own domestic capabilities. As I recall, that legislation had a lot of other provisions in it that had nothing to do with the production of our own capability, and I felt were a distraction away from and a potential obstacle toward achieving that.
▶ 2:08:14Sen. Gillibrand: So you will recommend to be president that we continue to invest in the semiconductor industry in the united states, for our own independence as well as our own national security?
▶ 2:08:23Ms. Gabbard: Yes, senator, and I would base my recordations on a number of these issues, is confirmed as dni, based on the full assessment of the intelligence picture, so that the president understands the ramifications and the potential cost for anyone one of these policy positions that he will make it all of you will make.
▶ 2:08:41Sen. Gillibrand: Last, I want to return to the soleimani strike. At the time, you said what president trump did was illegal it would cause significant problems down the line. What is your position on the strike, and would you be able to advise the president and future issues with regards to national security?
▶ 2:08:59Ms. Gabbard: Those broader issues I raised with regard to war powers I have been consistent on. I did not have all the access to all information behind that strike at the time, and my concerns without that may be an escalatory action. President trump was right. There was no escalation beyond that, and his policies toward iran turned out to be very effective for our own national security.
▶ 2:09:24Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator gillibrand.
▶ 2:09:27Sen. Gillibrand: Can I just -- do you agree with the president taking away protections protections forgoes being targeted for the soleimani strike's, from secretary pompeo?
▶ 2:09:38Ms. Gabbard: I cannot look about without looking at the threat assessment for that and other decisions.
▶ 2:09:45Chair Cotton: Thinker -- thank you senator gillibrand, senator young.
▶ 2:09:50Sen. Young: It was clear from that visit in the office we share a lot of concerns about ill-advised foreign regime change interventions and the weaponize asian in -- weaponization of certain investments. We talk about edward snowden on which we might not agree. It has been recognized that he fled overseas with 1.5 million classified documents.
▶ 2:10:20Sen. Young: He shared with them with the press and absconded to china and russia. Do you have any response of the bipartisan findings that stated that "snowden caused tremendous damage to national security" including to military, defense and intelligence programs of great interest to america's adversaries. I will give you an opportunity respond, hopefully briefly.
▶ 2:10:45Ms. Gabbard: Edward snowden broke the law and I do not agree with how he chose to release information. And the extent of the information that he released. It is my focus on the future, and we can all agree that we do not want to have another snowden leak and I have laid out specific actions to do that.
▶ 2:11:06Sen. Young: It is notable that you did not say yes and clearly hurt in various ways our national security. The same house committee also reported that based on dod assessments that should the chinese or russian access certain documents based on dod capabilities that snowden stole "american troops will be at greater risk in any future conflict." do you have any reflection?
▶ 2:11:36Ms. Gabbard: I would be very concerned. I have not had access to the information or intelligence that led to that. Anything that puts our men and women in uniform unnecessarily at risk should be a grave concern.
▶ 2:11:50Sen. Young: I share that sentiment as a former marine corps intelligence officer. When we find in americans whether they are private citizens or contractors or uniformed personnel, they have shared sensitive designs about military technology or plans to a foreign government, however well-intentioned, we rightfully throw the book at them. Snowden did just that.
▶ 2:12:19Sen. Young: Yet, you have argued and many times that he should be pardoned. You introduced legislation as has been discussed, he has been able to publicly hide behind this facade of being a so-called whistleblower. But he likely endangered american lives through his actions.
▶ 2:12:42Sen. Young: So, as the leader of the intelligence community, how would you think that you would be received based on some of these past actions to support or pardon edward snowden? Rank-and-file intelligence analysts and intelligence professionals, how do you think you will be received?
▶ 2:13:06Ms. Gabbard: I am grateful to have received letters of endorsement from many current and former individuals who have worked in the intelligent committee who have worked or still are working in the military because I believe that they trust that my goal and my ol -- sole goal and is upholding the constitution and they trust if confirmed, I will take the
▶ 2:13:37Ms. Gabbard: Very specific steps that I have laid out in informing every single person about the legal pathways they have to blow the whistle or to bring any concerns to the forefront to include coming directly to members of congress and to limit access so we do not have people who are e3 or 4's with people releasing classified information, giving them a direct line to me to make sure that we are all fulfilling
▶ 2:14:08Ms. Gabbard: Our responsibility to ensure national security and uphold our constitution.
▶ 2:14:12Ms. Gabbard: Was edward snowden falls to an obligation or a duty? I do not understand?
▶ 2:14:23Sen. Young: Did he betray a duty or the trust of the american people? That is according to merriam-webster, that is the definition of a trader. -- traitor.
▶ 2:14:38Ms. Gabbard: He broke the law and releases information in a way that he should not have. He acknowledged and exposed information that was unconstitutional that drove a lot of reforms that this body has made to make sure that americans constitutional rights are protected.
▶ 2:14:55Sen. Young: If he is watching these proceedings -- for what it is worth he has posted on social media indicating that tolls a gabbard -- tulsi gabbard should indicate that are harmed national security. This might be the rare instance in which I agree with him.
▶ 2:15:14Sen. Young: It would the fate you and be -- befit you and be helpful by the way you are perceived if you would at least acknowledge that the greatest whistleblower in american history, so-called, harmed national security by breaking the laws of the land around our authorities. Thank you for being here.
▶ 2:15:36Chair Cotton: Senator kelly.
▶ 2:15:38Sen. Kelly: Colonel gabbard, thank you for your service to the country.
▶ 2:15:44Ms. Gabbard: Likewise.
▶ 2:15:46Sen. Kelly: To congress and the army, thank you for being here today. You are nominated to lead and coordinate across the intelligence community's numerous sources of collections and capabilities. In a few sentences describe how you make assessments and how you will sift through all of this intelligence and make careful and thoughtful conclusions?
▶ 2:16:10Ms. Gabbard: There are great professionals that work within the intelligence committee. I will build a strong team as a present intelligent supporting to provide through the president's daily brief and respond to issues and concerns that this body has. I will welcome dissenting voices to make sure that disinformation -- this information is thoroughly vetted.
▶ 2:16:38Ms. Gabbard: And make sure that the truth is reported, whether it is convenient or not.
▶ 2:16:41Sen. Kelly: Thank you. And I appreciate that. The president and others will rely on that. I want to discuss such an assessment made by the ic. The U.S. analyzed elements of chemical weapons attacks in syria and we were able to assess that assad was a -- was responsible for a number of attacks that slaughtered his own civilians.
▶ 2:17:08Sen. Kelly: Do you accept the conclusion, broadly, that he used chemical weapons against syrians?
▶ 2:17:13Ms. Gabbard: Yes, and I am on the record for years agreeing with that.
▶ 2:17:17Sen. Kelly: Among the attacks, the U.S. assess that assad attacked -- was responsible for the coup -- occurred in duma in syria. As a member of congress, presidential candidate and in your written responses, you have cast doubt on the assessment that assad is culpable in these two attacks. Is that still your position?
▶ 2:17:44Ms. Gabbard: Senator, I raise to those questions given conflicting information and evidence that was presented at that time.
▶ 2:17:53Sen. Kelly: Thank you. To help inform the public. The trump administration release declassified intelligence in 2017 and 2018 showing how experts analyze multiple types of evidence, satellite and -- imagery and witnesses describing sources and showing them reasoning used to determine his culpability in using these chemical weapons including in duma in these attacks, the ones
▶ 2:18:24Sen. Kelly: That you question. I have two documents I want to submit for the record, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:18:29Chair Cotton: Admitted.
▶ 2:18:32Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Were you aware of the declassified assessments?
▶ 2:18:37Ms. Gabbard: I was.
▶ 2:18:38Sen. Kelly: As a member of the house armed services committee and foreign affairs committee did you take the time to review these?
▶ 2:18:45Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 2:18:46Sen. Kelly: Thank you. And could you explain to me then why you doubted the intelligence community's conclusions in these two cases? But, not the others. Please be specific.
▶ 2:19:01Ms. Gabbard: These two cases were being looked at as -- to be used as a pretext for a major military movement. And my fear was a repeat of the deployment of another half a million soldiers like we saw in iraq towards what was the obama administration's goal, which was regime change in syria.
▶ 2:19:30Ms. Gabbard: The question that I raised came about because of two reasons. The assessment was made with high confidence and low information. The information came from those on the ground in an al qaeda-controlled area and we al qaeda linked sources. There was conflicting information that came from the u.n.'s office on the prohibition of chemical weapons inspectors as well as an m.I.t. Professor. I looked at these extensively.
▶ 2:20:00Sen. Kelly: Did you look into his credentials?
▶ 2:20:03Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 2:20:04Sen. Kelly: Were you aware of his appearances on russian today, used by the russians to disseminate government approved messages?
▶ 2:20:12Ms. Gabbard: No.
▶ 2:20:13Sen. Kelly: Were you aware that postal relied on a chemistry student with a record of defending the assad regime?
▶ 2:20:23Ms. Gabbard: At the time I was not and I had been made aware sense.
▶ 2:20:27Sen. Kelly: Do you consider these two individuals a better soup -- a better source than the -- then the U.S. intelligence committee.
▶ 2:20:36Ms. Gabbard: I assessed at the time the information. I do not know the second person you are referring to. But the m.I.t. Professor and the inspectors of the opcw provided critical questions that needed consideration.
▶ 2:20:52Sen. Kelly: Did you attempt to weigh his claims against the significant evidence and assessments already conducted by the ic?
▶ 2:21:00Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 2:21:02Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Here is my concern. When we began this you describe a thoughtful approach to describe -- to analyzing evidence and reaching thoughtful conclusions and this is what we expect. We walked through how you came to question assad's use of chemical weapons these two cases with a different approach. I do not reject seeking out differing viewpoints, we need to do that.
▶ 2:21:30Sen. Kelly: You started from a place of doubting the conclusions of the U.S. intelligence community and sought out information that confirms your viewpoint. That led you to embrace the opinions of two individuals that I think we disagree on this. You think they had expertise I do not and others did not. These individuals were sympathetic to russia and the assad regime.
▶ 2:21:54Sen. Kelly: It led you to minimize or discount the overwhelming information that contradicted your viewpoint, including the expert assessments of our own intelligence community. And, they do not get it right 100% of the time, I get that.
▶ 2:22:12Sen. Kelly: What I have seen that at the same time you were skeptical of our intelligence community's assessments, you would not apply the same skepticism to information that came from sympathizers of russia and assad. That is something we should all be concerned about. Thank you for -- I am for going on.
▶ 2:22:31Chair Cotton: I want to recognize and well, our newest member, senator budd, although we all regret senator rubio's departure. We are pleased that he is now the secretary of state and we have a great new member of our committee.
▶ 2:22:47Sen. Budd: Thank you and I am grateful for your leadership. Great to see you again and I enjoyed meeting you in the office a while back. I have enjoyed our friendship and time saving together. As you know, section 3023 of title 50 says that any individual nominated for appointment should have extensive national security expertise.
▶ 2:23:14Sen. Budd: You served four terms as a member of the house of representatives which is a constitutional office. Throughout your tenure you were a member of the armed service committee and the foreign affairs committee is that correct?
▶ 2:23:25Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 2:23:27Sen. Budd: Usurps two decades in the U.S. army including holding commands at multiple levels and served through administrations of both political parties and is that correct?
▶ 2:23:38Ms. Gabbard: Yes.
▶ 2:23:39Sen. Budd: Throughout your time in the house in the army you have been a consumer of intelligence and a policymaker. How important is it for the intelligence committee to provide timely, relevant, factual and objective intelligence to policymakers.
▶ 2:23:57Ms. Gabbard: It is nothing less than a matter of the national security. Too much in the multiple -- and a multitude of intelligence failures, that objective has not been met. Now cia director ratcliff talked about in his testimony how the cia's own internal metric shows that analytic objectivity has gone down within the organization.
▶ 2:24:23Ms. Gabbard: This is the kind of thing that I would seek to address if confirmed as director of national intelligence, ensuring that politics, biases and personal views are checked at the door. I would do it myself and ensure that analysis and reporting meets the objective that the president and congress requires which is no politics, no personal abuses and making sure that the objectivity in a timely and relevant fashion is brought
▶ 2:24:54Ms. Gabbard: To the president so we can get ahead of problems in assuring our national security rather than forced to respond to them.
▶ 2:25:03Sen. Budd: I think it is clear that you more than meet the statutory requirements. I want to switch gears. There has been a lot of discussion and it is a necessary discussion about your position on section 702 of pfizer. I have personally had concerns and we talked about this and I actually voted against its reauthorization when I was in the house.
▶ 2:25:28Sen. Budd: I recently voted to reauthorize section 702 with additional safeguards to end the validity I say should -- politicization and to ensure civil liberties. So, how has your thinking on section 702 developed over time and why? And if confirmed, what will you do to ensure that these new safeguards are fully implemented?
▶ 2:25:56Ms. Gabbard: As you pointed out, many of the concerns that we raised when we served were centered around the lack of safeguards to protect americans' fourth amendment rights and civil liberties as it pertains to the searching of U.S. persons with the incidental collection that occurs under 702.
▶ 2:26:17Ms. Gabbard: You and I know and agree that the national security capability provided by section 702 that enables this foreign surveillance on non-us persons overseas is critical. Period. My commitment is to maintain the national security tools while also protecting americans' fourth amendment rights and protections against unlawful search and seizure.
▶ 2:26:46Ms. Gabbard: There are a number of forms that you referenced such as the prohibition of bouts collections which we brought up when we served in the house. Making sure that 100% of U.S. persons by the fbi on this collection are reviewed by the attorney general herself. There are a number of reforms that strengthen significantly those safeguards, and a number of them I tried to bling in -- to bring into place when I was in the house.
▶ 2:27:13Ms. Gabbard: I look forward, if confirmed, to overseeing and assessing the implementation and reporting back to you as you begin to consider next year's reauthorization, and meeting that mark of ensuring security and upholding americans's fourth amendment protections.
▶ 2:27:34Sen. Budd: Talk briefly if you will about the dual task of simultaneously protecting whistleblowers and protecting classified information.
▶ 2:27:44Ms. Gabbard: There are more than sufficient legally protected routes for whistleblowers to come forward. Should they have concerns on any actions within the intelligence community. I have spoken about the additional protections that I will put in place if confirmed as director of national intelligence, understanding the serious of protecting our nation's secrets and those that I hold personally.
▶ 2:28:09Chair Cotton: Thank you. I will recognize senator ricker -- senator wicker, an ex officio member of our committee, which is latin for such a powerful man that can ask any questions of any committee at any time.
▶ 2:28:25Sen. Wicker: I look at it different, I am the only nonvoting member of this community -- committee and I have been an armed services committee hearing most of the morning. Let me ask about something that happened a long time ago and something that is happening right now. I was a member of the house of representatives on 9/11, 2001.
▶ 2:28:54Sen. Wicker: As a matter of fact, I was at the pentagon that morning when the attacks happened. Where were you when 9/11 happened? We all remember where we were?
▶ 2:29:03Ms. Gabbard: I was in hawaii and there was a five or six hour time difference. When I woke up it was several hours and the first thing I saw was that horrific footage of the airplanes attacking the twin towers in new york city.
▶ 2:29:18Sen. Wicker: I think you obviously have read a lot about it during the 24 plus years since then. Most americans have. There is a general consensus that there was a massive intelligence failure that caught us all by surprise.
▶ 2:29:39Sen. Wicker: Even though the world trade center had been attacked earlier. Do you think stove piping was part of the intelligence failure?
▶ 2:29:57Ms. Gabbard: No question.
▶ 2:29:59Sen. Wicker: Based on your reading, ok, could you elaborate?
▶ 2:30:06Ms. Gabbard: Absolutely. When we looked back at the post 9/11 reporting and assessments made, it was very clear that there was stove piping of information and intelligence that occurred at the highest and lowest levels where information collected by the fbi and by the cia was not being shared.
▶ 2:30:29Ms. Gabbard: It was almost ships passing in the night where if there is an integration of those intelligence elements, and information being shared, it is highly likely that the attack could have been prevented.
▶ 2:30:40Sen. Wicker: And that is the reason your position was created. There has been some discussion this morning, again, I have not been able to listen in. I understand there has been some discussion about reforming the office of dni to eliminate redundancy and increase effectiveness.
▶ 2:31:03Sen. Wicker: Do you worry that in doing so, we might be getting back to the same problem that we had in 2001?
▶ 2:31:12Ms. Gabbard: The problem we had in 2001 remains at the forefront of my mind. This is why the odni was created. Given my limited vantage point not being in the seat, I am concerned that there are still problems with stove piping that need to be addressed. And in some cases my concern is that unnecessary bureaucratic later -- layers might contribute to the problem.
▶ 2:31:42Ms. Gabbard: This is why coming in and being able to take a fresh look given my experience and background will be essential to making sure that the odni is accomplishing the reason it was created in the first place.
▶ 2:31:54Sen. Wicker: And I have a lot of suggestions about how to make the department of defense more efficient also. I would simply caution you before I move on. Another quick question. As we are trying to eliminate overlaps that we avoid getting back to the thing that created your agency to start with.
▶ 2:32:23Sen. Wicker: Let me just ask about anomalous health incidents. I know you are not in the intelligence community yet, but having read, as most of us have, about these havana syndrome incidents, what is your understanding of that now? What are your plans?
▶ 2:32:46Ms. Gabbard: Thank you. It has been deeply concerning throughout this period from the first time this was discovered so long ago where we are today that the intelligence community has still failed to identify the source and cause for a havana syndrome as it is commonly known. Even as many people who are in service are suffering the consequences.
▶ 2:33:12Ms. Gabbard: I look forward if confirmed to addressing this. And of course making sure that those who have been impacted that are getting the care that they need and getting the truth behind how and why this has occurred?
▶ 2:33:28Sen. Wicker: Are you saying that we are not any closer to understanding where this came from?
▶ 2:33:34Ms. Gabbard: Based on my understanding there has not been definitive reporting on the source and cause for these anomalous health incidents?
▶ 2:33:44Sen. Wicker: Well, perhaps -- I could follow up the record. I think there is some more public information that has been recent about that. Thank you.
▶ 2:33:57Chair Cotton: Senator wicker, it is a custom to allow a follow-up question for senators who remain quite -- present at the end of the follow-up around. This is a follow-up question and not a five-minute round. We will have her in a closed session where we will each have another five-minute round of questioning. Is there any senator that wishes to be recognized for a set -- for a follow-up question?
▶ 2:34:22Sen. Wyden: There is an area that is still uncertain and this is what my question is about. The trump administration illegally attempted to withhold federal funds for a broad range of organizations. I am interested to knowing what you would do if president told you to withhold congressionally approved funds from the intelligence community inspector general.
▶ 2:34:45Sen. Wyden: My question is if president trump orders you to withhold appropriated funds from the inspector general will you in -- will you refuse that illegal order?
▶ 2:34:56Ms. Gabbard: I do not believe for a second that president trump will ask me to do something that will break the law.
▶ 2:35:04Sen. Wyden: I am asking if you are asked about an illegal order what will you do?
▶ 2:35:13Ms. Gabbard: My commitment has been and will be as confirmed as director of national intelligence to comply with the law.
▶ 2:35:21Chair Cotton: You've actually asked two questions.
▶ 2:35:25Sen. Wicker: I am not at -- Sen.
▶ 2:35:29Wyden: . I am not asking a question.
▶ 2:35:29Chair Cotton: Are there any senators that would like a follow-up question.
▶ 2:35:33Sen. King: I would like to follow-up on my questioning about edward snowden and understand how you analyzed the facts leading up to your 2020 bill providing him with a pardon? There was the house committee report, which granted was redacted. But under the hand -- heading what damage did it because were 5.5 pages of redacted material. That would raise a question in your mind.
▶ 2:36:03Sen. King: Secondly, there are about 20 countries that do not have extradition treaties with the U.S. and he chose to go to russia and become a russian citizen. Given that information, how did you decide to introduce a bill providing him with a pardon? Introducing a bill in the united states congress is not the same as a quick -- as a tweet or a commentary on a podcast.
▶ 2:36:26Sen. King: I am concerned about your parents lack of it -- apparent lack of interest in the scope of edward snowden's traitorous activities.
▶ 2:36:38Ms. Gabbard: I have answered some version of this question many times in this hearing already. My foremost concern has been, remains and continues to be in upholding my oath to the constitution, to support and depend americans' fourth amendment constitutional rights.
▶ 2:36:57Ms. Gabbard: If confirmed, I am committed to ensuring we protect our nation's secrets by implementing a number of actions that I have outlined so that those who have concerns about programs within our intelligence community that we do not have another snowden leak and they are able to raise those concerns directly with congress or through a number of legal paths available.
▶ 2:37:21Ms. Gabbard: It is also important and in line with many bipartisan concerns in security classification, security clearance and classification reform and in narrowing severely those who have access to the most sensitive and compartmentalized intelligence reporting and capabilities.
▶ 2:37:43Chair Cotton: Senator bennet.
▶ 2:37:46Sen. Bennet: Thank you for your generosity and having a second question. Thank you again for hanging in there with this discussion. The house intelligence committee review of the snowden disclosures found not only that he was a traitor, but since his arrival in moscow, he has had and continues to have contact
▶ 2:38:17Sen. Bennet: With russian intelligence services. You can see the deep concern on both sides of the aisle. You had in your opening statement all kinds of complaints about former officials in the intelligence agencies. The united states journalists, the media, and democrats.
▶ 2:38:37Sen. Bennet: And suggested that you were not being treated fairly when you're coming here with no condemnation at all for this, which leads me to wonder, why it is so hard for you to say that edward snowden was a traitor to our country.
▶ 2:38:55Sen. Bennet: And the question I guess I have for you is how if you cannot say that, you feel that the concerns that this committee has, that we need somebody here who will actually honor their oath as you said. Maybe I should make it easier for you. Edward snowden did not honor his oath to the constitution, which you said was the most important duty and obligation that you have in this role.
▶ 2:39:28Sen. Bennet: Why is he being treated like a folk hero by you, instead of the trader that he trai -- traitor that he was?
▶ 2:39:39Ms. Gabbard: What should be of relevance to you and everyone watching is what I should be doing to make sure that there is another snowden leak and given the paramount importance of our national security, and keeping our nation's secrets. I have laid out a number of ways if I -- how I intend to do that if confirmed.
▶ 2:40:01Chair Cotton: Senator gillibrand.
▶ 2:40:04Sen. Gillibrand: : I want to continue with regard to china because it is such an important part of your portfolio. I know on our service that you have had hearings over the last 15 years about the architecture and how they are building up space capabilities and air force capabilities. Every capability possible.
▶ 2:40:26Sen. Gillibrand: That aligned with their malign foreign influence and their ambition with regard to taiwan, it creates a very dangerous scenario and concerning. I wanted to ask you about japan. Recently about a year and a half ago, 13 months ago you said it was not wise to allow japan to build up their own defense architecture. And you thought it was shortsighted.
▶ 2:40:55Sen. Gillibrand: Could you speak a little bit about that because our alliance with japan is so important in our ability to defend against malign activity in china, not only geographically but because for the last 50 years they have been close allies that we rely on. We share intelligence and operations and they are a great ally. What was your concern about and have you had any views that shifted in that regard?
▶ 2:41:21Ms. Gabbard: Thank you. I agree that japan has been a strong ally of the united states. In a different capacity as a member of the hawaii national guard, I have conducted training missions with the japanese self-defense force. There forces and their constitution has been focused on self-defense.
▶ 2:41:45Ms. Gabbard: The concerns that I had raised previously had to do with really looking at the bigger picture of the context of the history with japan and china and recognizing the implications of how this kind of shift from a self-defense posture that japan has had to an offensive posture could result in escalation.
▶ 2:42:10Ms. Gabbard: Given the history, we need to acknowledge what the ramifications could be to our own security interests. That is something that I am looking forward to be able to provide to all of you and the president if confirmed as director of national intelligence, it is that in-depth analysis and assessment so that various policies or actions that you all or the president are considering are fully thought through given the broader context of nuance and
▶ 2:42:41Ms. Gabbard: History, and the complexity that exists within the asia-pacific region.
▶ 2:42:44Chair Cotton: Thank you. Senator kelly.
▶ 2:42:48Sen. Kelly: When russia was denying assad's use of chemical weapons, they accuse the U.S. of supporting terrorists. This is a line that putin used frequently during the syrian civil war as he is supported aside. Syrian officials made similar comments they did it frequently, in public and at the united nations. In 2016 you gave an interview in which you said "the U.S.
▶ 2:43:16Sen. Kelly: Is providing direct and indirect support to terrorists groups in order to overthrow the syrian government." in 2019, on the democratic presidential debate stage you set up president trump "this current president is continuing to betray us. We were supposed to be going after al qaeda.
▶ 2:43:39Sen. Kelly: But over the years now not only have we not gone after al qaeda, our president is supporting al qaeda." I am interested to hear what was your goal in saying these things, and did you consider before saying them, the motives of iran and russia, -- what their motives might have been?
▶ 2:44:00Ms. Gabbard: Senator, as someone who enlisted in the military, specifically because of al qaeda's attack on 9/11 and committing myself and my life to doing to what I could to defeat these terrorists, it was shocking and a betrayal to me and every person killed on 9/11, their families and my brothers and sisters in uniform.
▶ 2:44:27Ms. Gabbard: When I learned about president obama's dual programs that he had begun, really to overthrow the regime of syria, and being willing to through the cia's timber sycamore program, which has now been made public, of working with and arming and equipping al qaeda in an effort to overthrow that regime. Starting yet another regime change war in the middle east.
▶ 2:44:57Ms. Gabbard: Dod train and equip program begun under president obama has widely been known, looked at and studied and that ultimately resulted in half $1 billion being used to train who they call moderate rebels but were actually fighters aligned with al qaeda's affiliate in syria, all to move forward with their regime change and not acknowledging what was obvious at the time and what was true,
▶ 2:45:27Ms. Gabbard: That a regime change war in syria much like the ones in iraq and the toppling of gadhafi and mubarak, this would a lot -- results in the rise of islamist extremists taking power. I shed no tears for the fall of the assad regime, but today we have an islamist extremist now in charge of syria.
▶ 2:45:52Ms. Gabbard: As I said who danced on the streets to celebrate the 9/11 attack, and to ruled over idlib with an extremist governance and has already begun to persecute and kill and arrest religious minorities like christians in syria. Why that should be acceptable to anyone is beyond me.
▶ 2:46:15So -- Sen. Kelly: I appreciate your answer and my concern has to do with the tendency to repeat russian and syrian and even in some cases and I think we will get into in the closed session, iranian information and discount what comes from our intelligence community.
▶ 2:46:37Ms. Gabbard: Everyone deserves to know that people in our own government were providing support to our sworn enemy, al qaeda. That should not be acceptable by anyone.
▶ 2:46:47Chair Cotton: In conclusion, senator warner.
▶ 2:46:51Sen. Warner: One of the things I love about this committee and I know folks are here for this might not remember that this has always been a bipartisan committee. My friend said we always follow the truth. One of the things that I was proud of during the very challenging russian investigation people would not know whether the staffer was a democrat or republican. They were all looking out for the same thing.
▶ 2:47:20Sen. Warner: I support and commend you for your service. But, we have heard this morning taking from individuals advice on chemical attacks, not taking the american intelligence community and as we subsequently discovered, that they had if he ties.
▶ 2:47:43Sen. Warner: We have heard this morning on your trip to lebanon, you are not fully aware that the folks who paid on the trip -- you had paid for the trip had relations to the syrian party. You said you met with shia religious figures and I do not understand who they were. I cannot imagine that they did not have ties to hezbollah.
▶ 2:48:15Sen. Warner: We can have a difference on opinion on tiktok. The chair and I feel very strongly that it is a national security red. On 702, I am candidly confused. I thought you said you were in favor of a warrant and senator cornyn you backed off on that. And then on edward snowden, you will not back off of brave or your legislation and you will not call him a traitor.
▶ 2:48:48Sen. Warner: This is being watched by our allies around the world and rt has been tweeting about it and lasting me. And men and women in the intelligence community, I do not know how they will have confidence that under your leadership if somebody else stepped out that you would not take the same position that you have not walked away from. My last question and I think this was in some of the press and I believe you and your husband took a trip to rome last summer.
▶ 2:49:20Sen. Warner: I am not talking about the conference. I think you did not ask who paid for the trip. I want to get this off the record. Not if you and your husband were reimbursed, but did you pay for the trip at the outset?
▶ 2:49:34Ms. Gabbard: There was a nonprofit organization that was correlating with the vatican to set up a meeting centered around security interests in the western hemisphere.
▶ 2:49:47Sen. Warner: You did not understand that your trip was paid for by the clemente foundation.
▶ 2:49:57Ms. Gabbard: The nonprofit paid for the trip.
▶ 2:50:01Sen. Warner: He has ties to constantine malov, who is somebody that america has sanctioned. I imagine that we can get into this into the classified hearing. The due diligence required for you take these trips or make these assumptions is something that I find very troubling. Thank you.
▶ 2:50:22Chair Cotton: I would also note that that same story reported that there is no indication that she did anything wrong on the trip. Thank you for your time and testimony. Thank you most importantly for your service to our nation. As I said it is no secret that this nominated -- nomination has generated more interest than most nominees before this committee.
▶ 2:50:47Chair Cotton: We have received a large number of statements, letters, and other such material in support and opposition to your nomination. I will submit all of those for the record. For the benefit of senators it is my intention to hold a committee vote as soon as possible. Therefore for planning purposes, any senator who wishes to submit questions after the hearing, do so by close of business tomorrow, that is friday, january 31 at 5:00 p.m.
▶ 2:51:16Chair Cotton: Eastern time. Now, let me explain what will happen next. Committee security and Ms. gabbard's security will escort her and her immediate party out of the dust out of this room through the door behind me. Everyone else will remain seated. The capitol police will secure the door it so no one else leaves the room until she has reached her break room in preparation for the closed session.
▶ 2:51:44Chair Cotton: We will convene in approximately 30 minutes at 1:10 p.m. This open session is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]