▶ 0:19:12>> the organizing resolution and then break for five minutes so the nominee can be seated and then we will proceed with the nomination. We have the appropriate quorum and senators here to conduct business. I move we approve the committee budget, the subcommittee assignments, the committee rules, the designation of the members of the joint tax committee and the members of the joint trade advisors on block. Senator wyden?
▶ 0:19:39Sen. Wyden: I second.
▶ 0:19:42Chair Crapo: All those in favor say aye. The ayes have it. The business matters are agreed to. The business meeting is adjourned and we will take a few moments to have our witness seated. Mr. greer, you may come forward.
▶ 0:24:01Chair Crapo: The committee will return to order. Senator wyden and I will give our introductory statements and then we will go to a good friend and colleague senator hagerty and then we will go ahead with our testimony, Mr. greer, for your hearing. Mr. greer, I welcome you and congratulate you on your nomination.
▶ 0:24:27Chair Crapo: By traditional timelines this is one of the earliest dates the finance committee has held a nomination hearing for the ustr. Your timely responses to questions from both sides of the aisle expedited the demanding process. Mr. greer is nominated by the president for an incredibly important job, america's chief trade negotiator.
▶ 0:24:49Chair Crapo: By statute and in accordance with our constitution, our negotiator must report to congress, which means he reports to the finance committee. This week attention fell on president trump's executive orders to help secure our borders from illegal immigration and sentinel smuggling.
▶ 0:25:11Chair Crapo: -- and sentinel -- and fentynl smuggling. The orders relied on the economic policy act. The president, not the ustr invokes it in the department of homeland security, not the ustr is responsible for securing our borders.
▶ 0:25:37Chair Crapo: Nonetheless, I am securing briefings on these orders and customs and border protection will brief the committee on this matter today. What the president has done that is different is to bring tariffs into the discussion about border security. Ustr is america's chief trade negotiator. Any time the U.S.
▶ 0:26:00Chair Crapo: Government is considering tariffs or something that implicates trade policy, the ustr should be a part of those conversations and should report to us about those conversations and solicit our input. Right now Mr. greer is not in the government and not privy to various discussions. Confirming him will allow him to be a part of those conversations and work with this committee.
▶ 0:26:29Chair Crapo: Ensuring congress fulfills its constitutional responsibilities over international trade. When we look at whether jamieson greer will be a good negotiator for america's trade interests and a partner to this committee, his experience and skill set indicate the answer is yes. He understands the ustr's policymaking since he has served as its chief of staff. At ustr he distinguished himself as an infective negotiator on the usmca.
▶ 0:27:00Chair Crapo: This overwhelmingly passed congress. As many of my democratic colleagues know firsthand, he worked closely with them on their priorities for usmca. As an accomplished international trade attorney he is an expert on our trade agreements and trade laws, including the requirements to report to congress promptly and thoroughly. We need an effective ustr now more than ever.
▶ 0:27:26Chair Crapo: Our last ustr did not negotiate any agreements and we lost ground to foreign competitors. The biden administration walked away from its own limited initiatives such as the indo pacific economic framework.
▶ 0:27:42Chair Crapo: Rather than forge new rules to combat chinese trade practices the prior administration turned its back on existing rules and positions such as our intellectual property rights under the wto agreement and support for open data flows and nondiscrimination against our technology companies. The biden administration also dawdled on enforcement of our existing trade agreements, including by failing to act against protectionist measures on our U.S. agriculture and energy producers.
▶ 0:28:12Chair Crapo: Finally there was one other major ustr failure during the last administration. Failing to report to and consult with this committee. Both sides of the aisle expressed serious concern about the last ustr's repeated failures to consult with this committee. Her position she did not need to improve the consultation with the committee or the agency's transparency with the public. Should not hold Mr. greer responsible for those failings.
▶ 0:28:44Chair Crapo: Mr. greer has been crystal clear he will consult with this committee and respect congress's constitutional prerogatives over trade. I expect some members may disagree with our administration but if so Mr. greer has committed to make his case before us rather than ignore us. If confirmed, I will hold him to that commitment. Mr.
▶ 0:29:05Chair Crapo: Greer, thank you for your willingness to serve and I look forward to hearing more from you about your perspectives on international trade and how you plan to work with this committee to achieve our shared priorities. With that I recognized senator wyden.
▶ 0:29:20Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. This is always been an area we have tried to find common ground. It will be a challenge now but that has always been the history of the finance committee. It may be something of a journalistic first, colleagues, but I would like to enter into the record 3 wall st journal opinion articles on the trade issue.
▶ 0:29:47Sen. Wyden: One is entitled "the dumbest trade war in history." the second is called "pray for surrender in trump's dumb trade war" and the third is entitled "trump links on north american tariffs." america has had its first taste of trump's rancid trade policy this week.
▶ 0:30:18Sen. Wyden: Here are the receipts that demonstrate how much damage these flawed trade policies we have seen thus far are doing, hurting regular people, we saw the effects on wall street. I could go on.
▶ 0:30:38Sen. Wyden: One of the central problems, and I find it sad to say this, is that donald trump has repeatedly lied to the american people about who is going to pay these tariffs. For a full year you heard again and again it was going to be these foreigners, the foreigners were going to pick up the bill. That is just wrong. That is just terrible economics.
▶ 0:31:09Sen. Wyden: That is not right to say that. Working people and small businesses are the ones who pick up the bills. Who could have seen these developments? I thought it was coming because donald trump governs by whim and in trade that hurts american families.
▶ 0:31:33Sen. Wyden: His tariff bluff created huge uncertainty that is costing american businesses and putting the global economy on what I would describe as a month-to-month lease. Frankly my top priority today is to figure out who in hell in the trump administration will be in charge of trade.
▶ 0:31:57Sen. Wyden: What they plan to do and how this sort of babylon will get straightened out -- how this sort of bedlam will get straightened out to get help for american families. This weekend featured a bunch of fake promises, starting with the threats to slap blanket tariffs on products from canada, mexico, and china. Then donald trump backed down after canada and mexico repackaged stale border security promises into a new box.
▶ 0:32:27Sen. Wyden: Foreign leaders around the world were laughing at us, and the president really got rolled. This brings us to the business before the committee today considering the nomination of jamieson greer to serve as U.S. trade representative. He and I met first when he met with bob lighthizer, he served as an attorney for several notable firms and with bob lighthizer as chief of staff.
▶ 0:32:57Sen. Wyden: I appreciated the meeting we had a couple of days ago, and particularly your straightforward commitment to tell me what is going on with trade before I read it online or in some other publication. I ask for that and I appreciate getting it. Everyone of my colleagues will be asking me that and I mentioned -- and I venture senator crapo mask the same kind of question. The committee cannot function if it was kept in the dark like it was over the past week.
▶ 0:33:30Sen. Wyden: I expect he will pick up the phone and call us when trade is on the agenda and when you speak to me you will be speaking to my colleagues on this side of the dais. In our conversation I was try to figure out the trade chaos that occurred over the past weekend. I thought it was actually about trade. My constituents in oregon on what it was about trade. -- thought it was about trade. They said one out of three jobs depends on trade.
▶ 0:34:00Sen. Wyden: You told me the tariff threats were not about trade at all, but rather an issue of border security. I am interested in exploring which is which. I did not leave the conversation very confident you would expect to be in the room when these trade decisions were being made. This is something that ought to concern every member of this committee on both sides of the aisle. The american people need to know who is making the trade case for them.
▶ 0:34:30Sen. Wyden: What we say in oregon, this is all about value added jobs. You grow stuff in oregon, you make stuff in oregon come in you ship it around the world because organ products are barely appealing around the world. You have to know who is making the case. The law says ustr is in charge of international trade. In this case it is not clear that is the case. Is it Mr.
▶ 0:34:59Sen. Wyden: Let nick dachshund to visit -- is it howard let nick -- howard lutnik? I will close with this. I want to be sure we get the nominees views when it comes to using tariffs to settle scores that do not have anything to do with trade. No administration has used the international emergency economic powers act to impose tariffs before donald trump.
▶ 0:35:30Sen. Wyden: It is my view that is an abuse of the law and a number of us have introduced legislation to reign it in. If the ustr has no role in decisions like that I'm not sure what their job is. International trade policy is too important to american families, workers, small businesses, manufacturers, and farmers to be sacrificed to make headlines on unrelated issues.
▶ 0:35:55Sen. Wyden: We will not have a full-scale crapo wyden from with respect to potatoes in oregon and idaho because we love them both and we know oregon is superior and we need to sell them in foreign markets. That is not about going back and forth over whose products are better.
▶ 0:36:17Sen. Wyden: It is my hope the committee will be spending more time making it easier to sell made in the usa products and less time figuring out why this administration is putting as we saw last week at americans likelihood at risk. Mr. greer, I do not envy your position. Mice friend -- my friend senator hagerty, I do not and be your challenge. Based on last week it is unclear how these decisions will be made , what the influence is to be of Mr.
▶ 0:36:46Sen. Wyden: Greer and what senator hagerty, who has a long time interest in this is going to be doing as well. This is an opportunity for you to make a case for how you will pass trade measures that are really going to make sense for the american people at a crucial time. Thank you.
▶ 0:37:02Chair Crapo: Thank you. Today we are honored to have our good friend and colleague from the volunteer state, senator hagerty here to introduce jamieson greer. Senator hagerty, you may proceed.
▶ 0:37:16Sen. Hagerty: Thank you chairman crapo, ranking member wyden. It is a privilege to introduce my friend jamieson greer to be president trump's and our nations trade representative. Trade policy is a cornerstone of president trump's economic plan for america. For such a vital role the president would only select a man whom he deeply trust and thus I believe his selection of jamison speaks volumes about the qualifications and character of this nominee will be testifying today.
▶ 0:37:48Sen. Hagerty: He is no stranger to the complexities of global trade. He previously served as chief of staff to the U.S. trade representative robert lighthizer. During his service he participated in virtually every major trade action initiated by the administration. He worked closely with senior officials across departments and agencies and was deeply involved in negotiations in the phase one trade deal with china and the new united states mexico canada agreement.
▶ 0:38:17Sen. Hagerty: I also had the pleasure with working with jamison and ambassador lighthizer tell president trump negotiate key trade deals between united states and japan where jamison proved himself exceptionally capable of representing america on the global stage and Mr. greer was in the room on every critical turn as we negotiated on america's behalf. During president trump's first term we witnessed firsthand how truong -- how strong trade policies and strong economic growth go hand-in-hand.
▶ 0:38:46Sen. Hagerty: Terms for leverage to advance america strategic interest and bolster our national security. All while americans enjoyed low-inflation and economic prosperity. Jamison understands this better than anyone and I know he will bring that knowledge and experience to this role. His approach is guided by a commitment to fair and reciprocal trade. He understands the united states is the world's largest market and foreign access to this market should not be taken for granted.
▶ 0:39:17Sen. Hagerty: He has consistently fought for the interests of key U.S. industries on the world stage. As an officer in the air force he deployed to iraq where he advised on legal matters. Public service is in his dna. I have great confidence in his capacity to defend and rebuild our industries and his resolve to stand up for the working man and women of our nation.
▶ 0:39:42Sen. Hagerty: President trump is on a mission to usher in america's economic golden age and he needs a capable team to get the job done. Jamison has answered the call of duty before and I thank him for his willingness to answer that call once again. He has the right man for this job. I look forward to his testimony and working with my colleagues to quickly advance Mr. greer's nomination. Thank you.
▶ 0:40:06Chair Crapo: Thank you, senator hagerty. We appreciate you joining us for the reduction. You are excused if you would like to get on with your schedule and we will proceed. Mr. greer, before we have you begin with your opening statement I have four questions which we ask all nominees before this committee.
▶ 0:40:37Chair Crapo: First, is there anything you are aware of and your background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to which you've been dominated?
▶ 0:40:43Mr. Greer: No.
▶ 0:40:46Chair Crapo: Do you know of any reason personal or otherwise that would prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibility of the office to which you've been dominated?
▶ 0:40:55Mr. Greer: No.
▶ 0:40:57Chair Crapo: Do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any newly constituted committee of congress if you are confirmed?
▶ 0:41:07Mr. Greer: Yes.
▶ 0:41:09Chair Crapo: Do you commit to provide a prompt response in writing to any questions addressed to you by any senator of this committee?
▶ 0:41:16Mr. Greer: Yes I do.
▶ 0:41:18Chair Crapo: Without you are welcome to make your opening statement.
▶ 0:41:22Mr. Greer: Thank you chairman crapo, ranking member wyden, and members of the committee. Thank you for taking the time for this hearing. It is an honor to be before the committee for consideration for this position. I'm also grateful to the staff for their hard work for this process. It is a busy nomination season and I don't cannot happen without the staff. I am grateful for president trump for nominating me to be united states trade representative.
▶ 0:41:51Mr. Greer: His first term was historic and largely bipartisan in terms of reorienting trade policy. If I'm confirmed I look forward to pinching that work for the president and american people in close consultation with the committee. I also want to express my appreciation to my family were here today. I'm grateful to my parents, my siblings come in my extended family. I am at particulate thankful to my wife marlo and our five children, noel, pearl, eve, jamison, and senora.
▶ 0:42:23Mr. Greer: They have also sacrificed quite a bit, during my military training and my prior white house service. I would be remiss not to acknowledge ambassador bob lighthizer, a former U.S. trade representative and a gracious mentor and friend for many years. He gave me my first job out of washington and brought me to the first trumpet ministration to be his chief of staff. When he asked me to do that I said what is that, he said it will be fine. It was fine.
▶ 0:42:51Mr. Greer: I would not be prepared for this position without him at the many generous colleagues that taught me over the years. I am thankful to senator hagerty for his kind introduction. Working with him when he was ambassador to japan was a highlight of my life and he was exactly what ambassador should be in terms of representing our country's interest while building constructive relationships with our trade partners. My great-great-grandfather greer was born in tennessee simon honorary constituent.
▶ 0:43:20Mr. Greer: The town where my ancestors are from is named trade, tennessee so maybe it is destiny I am here today. I am grateful to be considered for this position and I look forward to building on the historic work are published in president trump's first term, notably all of that work was kept in place by the biden administration and expanded on. President biden kept trumps tariffs on china and increase them in a handful of critical areas.
▶ 0:43:48Mr. Greer: Last administration also embraced united states mexico canada agreement negotiated by president trump which is driven investment in the auto industry and to this day I hear from cattle ranchers and other meat producers about how important was to secure agricultural market access in japan as part of the united states and japan phase one trade agreement.
▶ 0:44:08Mr. Greer: At the time trump was implementing his trade agenda inflation and unemployment went down while real median household employment went up for all demographics and this is the type of growth we want in america and I strongly believe in active and pragmatic trade policy is critical to achieving this once again. During my meetings on capitol hill and the lead up to the hearing one senator asked me an important question, why do you want this position? There are many answers but I have two primary reasons.
▶ 0:44:37Mr. Greer: First is my belief america should be a country of producers, we are more than what we consume. American should have the opportunities to work and good paying jobs producing goods and services they can sell in this market and abroad to earn an honest living. I grew up in a loving family of modest means in california. Our family lived in a mobile home and my parents regularly worked several jobs to help make ends meet and the children helped.
▶ 0:45:03Mr. Greer: I'm very mindful of the struggles americans face when they're cut out of economic growth and trade plays a role in those concerns. I'm convinced american workers can compete with anyone else in the world in this market and beyond as long as they have a level playing field to do so, ensuring americans from all walks of life have dignified work as producers and builders is critical for economic mobility and social cohesion.
▶ 0:45:29Mr. Greer: If I'm confirmed to this position I would seek to develop trade policies that incentivize good paying jobs for american workers and allow them to support their families and communities. It is critical for our economic and national security are supply chains are resilient. We need resilience in strategic goods and services, agricultural supply chains, and technology.
▶ 0:45:51Mr. Greer: We live in a period of global volatility and conflict as foreign adversaries invade other countries, build up their nuclear arsenals, and seek to overtake america's technological edge. If united states doesn't have a robust manufacturing base it will have little in the way of hard power to deter conflict and protect americans. Trade policy can play an important role in ensuring we have economic security that leads to strong national security.
▶ 0:46:17Mr. Greer: I'm convinced we have a short window of time to restructure their national trade system to serve U.S. interests. If I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed I intend to work closely with this committee to execute president trump's trade agenda. We can ensure national trade and if it's american workers and promotes our military and technological dominance over the long-term. Thank you for your time and I look forward to our conversation today.
▶ 0:46:41Chair Crapo: I will start out with my questions. In the agricultural zone, agriculture is important to many committee members and members of the senate. Notwithstanding senator wyden's and my friendly discussion about potatoes regularly, idaho's 24,000 farms and ranches produce 185 commodities and idaho leads the nation in potato --
▶ 0:47:12Sen. Wyden: Timeout.
▶ 0:47:15Chair Crapo: Barley, and hay production and is the third-largest producer of milk and cheese. If not opened up new markets in four years. Farmers are also concerned they may become the target of retaliation if we use tariffs to pressure other countries to change their ways. How we support the interests of america's farmers and ranchers once you are confirmed?
▶ 0:47:39Mr. Greer: Thank you for those questions. Agriculture is something near and dear to my heart. I was raised in northern california and that is rice country and all meant country and I am -- and almond country and I'm familiar with mountain west and the crops you have. Agricultural producers are the most important -- are the most competitive in the world and they need to have markets commensurate with that competitiveness.
▶ 0:48:10Mr. Greer: We need to gain market access where things have been closed. For many decades we have had a trading system where the united states opens its market over and over again and others do not. India's tariff rate on agricultural products is 39%. In turkey it is 39.8%. These are markets where they need to open to the united states that that we need to use all the tools at our disposal to do so.
▶ 0:48:34Chair Crapo: Let's move to digital trade. We lost ground during the last administration because we turned our back on digital trade rules, including promoting data flows, combating forced technology transfer, and promoting nondiscrimination. A number of jurisdictions, including the eu and south korea utilized that opportunity to advance measures that target U.S.
▶ 0:49:00Chair Crapo: Technology companies with special requirements or taxes while exempting their domestic companies or even chinese companies. Do you agree that ensuring U.S. technological leadership means we need to confront these types of measures?
▶ 0:49:14Mr. Greer: Yes, I strongly believe we need to do that. This is an area where the united states is very competitive and I understand we are having a domestic conversation about how to regulate digital trade and technology companies and my view is that is where the conversation should be happening. We should not be outsourcing a regulation to the european union or brazil or anyone else they cannot discriminate against us.
▶ 0:49:42Chair Crapo: I appreciate that perspective. Next, the law states the ustr reports directly to the president and congress. Though my colleagues and I may disagree on policy occasionally, we are united in defending this committee's jurisdiction.
▶ 0:50:03Chair Crapo: If confirmed, do you commit to provide timely and thorough briefings on trade negotiations and to share proposals with this committee in advance of sharing them with foreign governments?
▶ 0:50:14Mr. Greer: We certainly expect to follow the law to the t specter consultations with congress. I agree with you that the statute directs me to report directly to the president and to you and that includes all of the consultation requirements, including before we approach foreign governments with offers we need to talk about it so we can be on the same page.
▶ 0:50:36Chair Crapo: Will you also keep us apprised and consider our input with respect to ustr led investigation and reports in the january 20 america first trade policy memorandum?
▶ 0:50:49Mr. Greer: Yes.
▶ 0:50:51Chair Crapo: Finally, with regard to trade reporting on trade barriers, by law the ustr is required to issue an annual report called the national trade estimate that identifies foreign barriers of U.S. exports of goods or services. Last administration decided it would not list a barrier if the administration agreed with the foreign governments ideology for enacting the barrier in the first place.
▶ 0:51:20Chair Crapo: If confirmed, this year's national trade estimate may be one of the very first things you review. Do you agree the ustr reports should as required identify the full range of discriminatory barriers to U.S. trade regardless of what agenda or excuse our trading partners may offer?
▶ 0:51:42Mr. Greer: I agree with that.
▶ 0:51:44Chair Crapo: Thank you very much. Senator wyden?
▶ 0:51:48Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much and welcome, Mr. greer. Let's talk about the president's campaign pledges to lower prices. Two weeks in, eggs are nearly nine dollars at grocery outlet in portland and the president admitted when asked questions about this that there would be in his words "pain involved." what I want to do is figure out
▶ 0:52:19Sen. Wyden: How we will help the consumers and minimize the pain they and our businesses will have. My view is the smart approach in trade is to date in in a targeted kind of -- is to dig in a targeted way. Taking steps to minimize the pain and cost to american families makes sense to me. That is not the trump approach.
▶ 0:52:46Sen. Wyden: The trump approach is to apply universal tariffs across the board tariffs and I think that is a prescription for hitting our citizens, small businesses and individuals really hard and also raising inflationary pressure.
▶ 0:53:05Sen. Wyden: I would start by asking you, can you give us an example that other than smoot-hawley in the country's history where there were universal tariff hikes and where somehow the country benefited? Where are the examples you cite for this trump approach in american history?
▶ 0:53:25Mr. Greer: Senator wyden, thank you for that question. I think it is instructive to think about our history with respect to trade policy. As many on this committee likely realize until about 1913 the united states government was entirely funded from tariff revenue, including during the later part of the 19th century when america truly was exploding as an international industrial powerhouse and we had a relatively high tariff rate at the same time we saw countries
▶ 0:53:57Mr. Greer: Like the united kingdom lowering their tariff rates and actually falling out of industrial competitiveness. I would say you have instances in the past wherehappens. For example when we gave china permanent market access.
▶ 0:54:16Sen. Wyden: What I am asking about is an example for the idea that the president has made number one on the trade policy list made number one. Universal tariffs, like a toolbox, I would like to see some kind of lodestar here that shows us why we ought to go in the direction the president is going. Because I have not seen --
▶ 0:54:47Mr. Greer: Sure. When you look about the trade policy, they have a part about fair and balanced a trade. And it's talked about in the context of our trade deficit, which is over $1 trillion. How large of a trade deficit do we want?
▶ 0:55:05Mr. Greer: The trade deficit represents a large part manufacturer, and universal tariffs should be investigated and figured.
▶ 0:55:19Sen. Wyden: I will hold the record open. I've asked for an example where the president used the across the board tariff rather than the targeted one that makes sense could let the record note I asked this three times. Let me ask you about medicine in the united states.
▶ 0:55:43Sen. Wyden: This is important to many of us, because that is a clear area where we can hold down the cost of medicine, create more choices, have groundbreaking therapies, and I'm concerned about, again, the tariff approach that I see emerging from the administration that could make it harder to make more medicine in the united states, something that is clearly a bipartisan goal. Senator crapo and I have been toiling away on bipartisan litigation that could help mitigate drug shortage.
▶ 0:56:12Sen. Wyden: So what is the plan to protect patients from the damages the tariffs are going to cause as we try to get the drug supply chains right, create more medicine in the united states, make our country safer and more secure as a result? What is the plan?
▶ 0:56:28Mr. Greer: Senator, I agree with you that we need to restore a lot of the supply chains in pharmaceuticals and want to do so in a way that is affordable. My expectation at minimum is that the trump administration, simultaneously with robust trade policy, will be a plummeting tax policy, energy policy, regulatory policy, the kind of policy that led to incredible economic growth in the first term, when we had incredibly strong trade policy that included tariffs.
▶ 0:56:55Sen. Wyden: Los to do in terms of getting a lead and make and come I don't believe your tariff s will get us there. They will set us back. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:57:04Chair Crapo: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman. Nine dollar eggs, I think that is a very important one. Mr. greer, thank you for being here, and I want to welcome your family as well for being here. They are a lot better dressed than my family would be if they were here.
▶ 0:57:28Chair Crapo: I actually wanted to ask you a question, in your opening statement, and I have two questions, so please don't filibuster the answer to this one. I know it would be easy to fill the time, because I know you believe in it. At the very end, you wrote, I am convinced we have a relatively short window of time to better serve U.S. interests. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
▶ 0:57:54Mr. Greer: I will come and I will try to be succinct.
▶ 0:57:58Sen. Bennet: Please.
▶ 0:57:59Mr. Greer: We are in a position where, for the past several decades, we have a default trade policy which was to liberalize the united states trade policy in the hopes that other partners would do this, having discussed the result of quite a bit of off shoring and concentrated losses and some of our communities. Also gains were folks like in the ag community and other exporters.
▶ 0:58:29Mr. Greer: Then we have bodies presumed to exercise proper authority over trade laws and our ability to do that. I think going forward, we need to restructure this. We need to have a pragmatic trade policy where we are looking sometimes a sector, sometimes economy why, often on a bilateral basis. How can we have competitive terms of train in the rest of the world?
▶ 0:58:51Mr. Greer: How can we emphasize our areas of advanced manufacturing, agricultural, and be able to take advantage of that in a very particular way as opposed to just having a default trade policy? Let's see where the chips fall.
▶ 0:59:04Sen. Bennet: I think also that we had a good conversation, and I think you agree that we cannot tariff our way to prosperity. To pursue the drive to american growth, to protect our national security.
▶ 0:59:32Sen. Bennet: In a strategic way, trade is part of that. We would love for business around the world. Supporting american manufacturing, trade policies, the farmers and the ranchers that he grew up with, something we think it has bipartisan support here.
▶ 1:00:03Sen. Bennet: I think, by investing in the western hemisphere, which has been ignored by both sides of the aisle. That's why senator cassidy and I, on the leading americans act, which I know we were meeting in my office, this would bring critical supply chains back to our hemisphere.
▶ 1:00:29Sen. Bennet: Counter efforts that create pathways to economics economic security that reduce illegal migration, I think, in the hemisphere. In that context, I would ask you if you are aware of the americas act, if you are thinking about ways in which our region we would be able to extend this agreement or work with congress to deepen our cooperation and our integration with our neighbors?
▶ 1:00:58Sen. Bennet: This is something people at home readily understandable when they asked a question, how can a country of 330 million people compete with india, with 1.4 billion people? Compete effectively with china, which has 1.3 billion people. We obviously don't have those numbers. We've got a lot going for us -- innovation, commitment to the rule of law, a lack of corruption, the most dynamic economy in the world. We have some big problems -- income inequality and a lack of economic mobility.
▶ 1:01:29Sen. Bennet: I think working in a strategic way with our neighbors is one of the answers to that, and I wonder if you could give me your views on that.
▶ 1:01:35Mr. Greer: Certainly. I have reviewed the americas act , and one thing of interest in the trade policy that was put out by the trump administration a couple weeks ago, it directed ustr to review our existing trade agreements to see if they could be improved for the united states. I think there's room for a conversation on the type of issues you're talking about.
▶ 1:02:02Mr. Greer: We are always going to have international trade commission we wanted to be strong, resilient, we wanted to be countries that agree with us and are going to play by the rules. So I think there's room to talk about how to take those transaction initiatives.
▶ 1:02:14Sen. Bennet: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:02:17Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator cornyn.
▶ 1:02:21Sen. Cornyn: Mr. greer, congratulations on your nomination. I think it was during the clinton administration when china was admitted to the wto, is that your recollection as well?
▶ 1:02:32Mr. Greer: It was the tail end of the clinton administration, and I think president bush signed it.
▶ 1:02:41Sen. Cornyn: And the premise of that was that china would somehow become part of the rules-based international order. But the fact of the matter is, china sheets, china steals our intellectual property, and they don't recognize a rules-based international order. Do you know off the top of your head what sort of tariffs that china imposes on imports into their country?
▶ 1:03:07Mr. Greer: I do, senator. So when it comes to tariff rates, the overall applied tariff rate on average is 17.5% come on ag product is 40% come but this is not include the barriers and regulatory hurdles.
▶ 1:03:29Sen. Cornyn: And they subsidize, a lot of their government owned enterprises, correct?
▶ 1:03:35Mr. Greer: That is exactly right, sir. It makes it difficult for everyone to compete, and it resulted in overcapacity that floods global markets and our own markets. It is something that has been a huge factor in the de- industrialization of the united states, which we need to reverse.
▶ 1:03:54Sen. Cornyn: Absolutely. Well, I think president trump was the president who first raised this issue in a very dramatic sort of way, and I think he's exactly right to insist upon reciprocity as a principal. Do you agree that reciprocity ought to be the basic principle that drives our trade policy?
▶ 1:04:15Mr. Greer: So, senator, and I know you've been a leader on this issue with respect to investment clubs in china, and he watch this closely, so I appreciate your insights here. I think with china, you know, reciprocity is one word we can use, right? But I don't want to fall into a trap where we say oh, we will have a 0% tariff on you, and they will have other kinds of barriers.
▶ 1:04:40Mr. Greer: I don't want that were to be misconstrued by the chinese or anybody else, but I do think we have to have a balance relationship. I think the united states will always have a balance relationship with china, but there's chinese agency in this matter, and they need to decide how open they want to be to us.
▶ 1:04:52Sen. Cornyn: Your response or mise me of a conversation we had in my office, and thank you for coming by to visit. I talked to you a little bit about something we are working on in the banking committee, senator scott, chairman of the bang committee, and others in a bipartisan basis, working on an outbound investment transparency law.
▶ 1:05:13Sen. Cornyn: We thought it would be added to the continuing resolution of the national defense authorization act, but I'm hoping we can tea this up in a bipartisan way so that as policymakers and as a government, we understand what sort of financial investments are being made by the united states and our friends and allies in china, which are then being used by the chinese government, because there is this chinese military civilian
▶ 1:05:44Sen. Cornyn: Fusion. Anything that is developed in the same area, technology, has to be shared with the military and with the chinese communist party. Do you think it just makes sense that we should have transparency over investments being made in china that may well if the modernization of their military in a way that is a threat to the peace in the indo pacific and beyond?
▶ 1:06:06Mr. Greer: Senator, I think having this kind of transparency is very important. In fact, again, I keep referring back to the trump administration's policy on trade, because they give such a clear direction, and one of the things it talks about is looking at crate efforts around outbound investments to foreign countries of concern.
▶ 1:06:30Mr. Greer: I think consideration of this kind of control for data gathering, I think that goes right along with exploring that.
▶ 1:06:37Sen. Cornyn: Talk to me a little bit about the de minimis exception to duty-free trade between countries. I know the executive order that president trump had side -- signed basically said we need to take a look at that.
▶ 1:06:58Sen. Cornyn: One of the things I'm concerned about, beyond just the trade issue, is the use of this failure to inspect packages, let's say, that come into the united states via the U.S. postal service or some other carrier that contain conventional or drug precursors. Are you aware this is a potential problem?
▶ 1:07:20Mr. Greer: Yes, senator, I'm aware, again, this is something that the trumpet administration signaled they wanted to look at this, and there are things related to infection, injury, and being very careful that this is not a loophole used for tariff evasion, counterfeit, fentanyl, or other drugs, or simply to explode the trade deficit.
▶ 1:07:42Sen. Cornyn: Thank you, Mr. greer.
▶ 1:07:46Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator grassley.
▶ 1:07:50Sen. Grassley: Oh, I'm next?
▶ 1:07:52Chair Crapo: You are up. We go by who got your first.
▶ 1:07:56Sen. Grassley: I'm ready. Thank you for visiting my office. I appreciate the conversation we had a couple weeks ago. Now that you and Mr. let nick -- lutnik have been nominees for several weeks, I want to know how much do you have on trade relevant to Mr. lutnick and several others?
▶ 1:08:26Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator, and I appreciate meeting with you. As an honorary can situate them on my wife is from dubuque, iowa. My statute is the statute that designates the office of the U.S. trade representative as chief trade negotiator, negotiating trade deals, section 301, delegated united states trade representative.
▶ 1:08:56Mr. Greer: Obviously no trade authority over laws, export control. The treasury often has sanctions. I think what is important to understand about all of this is that the president himself is so focused on trade issues. It is something that is very important to him. It has been a key plank in his platform for decades. You would expect that all of his cabinet members advise him on trade together and coordinate, so I expect to work very closely with Mr. lutnick, Mr.
▶ 1:09:25Mr. Greer: Bessent, and white house advisers on trade matters, of course, if I'm confirmed.
▶ 1:09:31Sen. Grassley: I have a short statement I want to read, and then I will ask you to comment on it after I read it. While I think it is important to hold china to its obligations under phase one agreements, I also fear that it will keep us reliant upon chinese markets, so we need to be looking around the world at other markets. We need to balance our short-term profitability with long-term stability.
▶ 1:10:03Sen. Grassley: I have, for a long time, voiced my own concerns about unfair trade practices by china, and I hope that you and president trump are successful in holding china accountable on fentanyl, intellectual property theft, government subsidization.
▶ 1:10:21Sen. Grassley: That said, I believe we must pursue fair trade with other countries, to create new markets, so that we can move away from china without losing even more market share to commodities to other countries. The free trade agreements that were negotiated under george w. Bush have resulted in large trade surpluses, and key industries like agriculture and manufacturing, and I think we need more free-trade.
▶ 1:10:50Sen. Grassley: And I know that president trump is more interested in bilateral agreements than multistate agreements. And I think if we look away from brazil and south korea and japan and china and eu as being problem countries for us on trade issues, but there's so many other countries where, if we have these agreements, and I
▶ 1:11:22Sen. Grassley: Used george w. Bush as an example, and his negotiator, ellen johnson, -- allan johnson, 13 countries, six or seven different agreements, you don't even think about them being significant in world trade, and they have, we have increased tremendously with these free-trade agreements our surpluses with those countries in trade. If you want to comment.
▶ 1:11:49Mr. Greer: Yes, senator, everything you just said, I think, is really important to keep in mind as we move forward with trade policy. I think attaining other export markets to make sure that our exporters, anyone else, manufacturing, are not completely dependent on china for their livelihood. Because that can be a high risk proposition.
▶ 1:12:18Mr. Greer: My guess is we will always trade with china, absent a conflagration, god forbid, but we have to have an export for our -- market for our exporters come and if we can be thoughtful will receive real concrete areas of advancement, whic of advancement, whi of advancement, wh we should pursue that. I'm looking forward to working with you, if confirmed, and the rest of the committee in where we can get the most bang for our buck. Aligned with your goals and our administration's goals.
▶ 1:12:46Sen. Grassley: Brazil is the leading competitor on agriculture. Brazil had displaced the united states as a world leader in soybean production. Another issue with brazil that I brought up with your predecessor is drastically unfair advantage brazil has on ethanol. U.S.
▶ 1:13:09Sen. Grassley: Exports placed an 18% tariff on exports going to result, however, brazilian ethanol comes here nearly duty-free. I hope you will address this trade in balance with brazil that ambassador tai was not successful in doing, taking action to reduce or illuminate the awful tariff on american ethanol.
▶ 1:13:37Mr. Greer: If I'm confirmed, I will work with you. I have a lot of things at the top of my list, and this is one of the things.
▶ 1:13:44Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator cortez masto.
▶ 1:13:47Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. Mr. greer, congratulations on your nomination. Welcome to your family. Your sun has been very patient. I understand the challenges during this long period. Let me say, first of all, thank you for meeting with me. I so appreciate the conversation. I want to talk about a topic that seems to get lost sometimes when we talk about trade and tariffs, and this topic is so important to nevada but also to the united states, which is tourism.
▶ 1:14:19Sen. Cortez Masto: It's the single largest export for the united states, and in my state, as you well know, from nevada, reno to las vegas in all parts in between, we are reliant on a strong and vibrant international tourism economy. U.S. travel destination has more than 25% across the board tariffs on canada would result in fewer canadians visiting america, causing $2.1 billion in lost spending and four thousand jobs lost.
▶ 1:14:47Sen. Cortez Masto: Tariffs on mexico are likely to have a similar impact. My first question to you, do you view tourism as an important industry, and do you agree that trade wars with neighboring countries are likely to harm tourism?
▶ 1:15:00Mr. Greer: Senator, thank you. I thank you for your work, and I also appreciate our meeting in your office, which I thought was insightful. With respect for tourism, you know, 100%, exports for the united states, that's why we have tourism, promotion agencies and things like that. It's critical.
▶ 1:15:26Mr. Greer: With respect to tariffs on neighboring countries, you know, I think the chairman said a very well in his opening, we talked about this reaction that the president is talking about is about fentanyl, we we don't want another single fentanyl death. A kilogram of sentinel can kill 50,000 people, by some calculations. We can't have that fear we need to come to an agreement on that.
▶ 1:15:54Mr. Greer: Obviously where a tariff is concerned, I would want to be involved with the committee on those issues, because I know it is important to you.
▶ 1:16:05Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me just talk about the practical impacts here, because there is administration officials, including secretary bessett, when he testified before this committee, stated that broad tariffs well cause the currency to appreciate. Let me say that as it appreciates them it makes it more expensive to travel to the united states. That has an impact on travel and tourism. So I'm hoping that you are taking that into consideration.
▶ 1:16:34Sen. Cortez Masto: I don't know anybody in this room or any of my colleagues that is not want to fight the war on fentanyl. It is impacting all of our communities, and there is a way to go about it. I believe this war on fentanyl existed during the first administration of donald trump, and he did not take this action. So there is a way to be smart about that that is not also continuing to harm our communities with job loss and billions of dollars in income coming in in the travel community.
▶ 1:17:04Sen. Cortez Masto: I know the administration has put a pause, a 30-day pause on the negotiation with canada and mexico, but let me just tell you about the practical impacts of that pause. We seen a call from a reno small business yesterday that where their customers in canada has canceled her project due to uncertainty, causing them tens of thousands of dollars. These are threats that are real. They are impacting our small businesses. There's uncertainty.
▶ 1:17:35Sen. Cortez Masto: So my question to you is, why do I say to my businesses? How do I assure them that workers are not going to be collateral damage, and these businesses, small businesses, are not going to be collateral damage is when we are engaging in this type of trade war? What should I say to the small business?
▶ 1:17:53Mr. Greer: The first thing I would say is that they can, for one thing, they can come talk to us at the office of U.S. trade representatives, and we want to hear from people who have been affected by this. It is very important to have that kind of feedback.
▶ 1:18:11Mr. Greer: If you look at the first trump administration where the president had a robust use of tariffs, trade measures and trade negotiations and agreements to create an economy that created and real median household income going up in three years, it was historic. The president knows how to shepherd the economy. He knows how to balance these things. I think we need to stay the course when it comes to fentanyl, when it comes to redoing trade policy, and we can all work together.
▶ 1:18:40Sen. Cortez Masto: So I have to tell them, you are just going to be, unfortunately, a victim of the trademark. Suck it up. It's better for the country. Is better for everyone else. That's the answer? I don't think so. You are a reasonable man, and we had a great conversation. There's a lot being impacted, from our homebuilders to critical minerals essential to this community, the titanium sponge important for our national security, we don't get in the united states anymore.
▶ 1:19:12Sen. Cortez Masto: There's a lot of impact here, and I'm looking forward to working with you, but there's got to be common sense, and there's got to be answers for so many businesses that are actually, unfortunately, victims of this trade war. And if the answer to them is, well, you have to be a victim. We have to suck it up for the greater good, I'm not sure that's an answer I want to carry back to them. But I look forward to working with them.
▶ 1:19:36Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator.
▶ 1:19:38Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator lankford, are you ready?
▶ 1:19:43Sen. Lankford: You bet. Mr. greer, thanks for stepping into play on this. There's a lot to be done. The last four years, there's been very little done, on a bipartisan basis, incredibly frustrated with a lack of a phone call saying how we cooperate together.
▶ 1:20:03Sen. Lankford: As you've heard some of my colleagues say come a lot of these acrid ulcers -- say, a lot of these ag producers, we are counting on you to do that, and if you cannot do that, we will ask your son to step in and take over. Clearly everybody looks well-prepared and your whole family. I'm glad everybody is here. Let me ask this. When you step into this role, there's several things we've already talked about, one of them being the abraham accords.
▶ 1:20:35Sen. Lankford: The abraham accords countries are still asking the same question -- what is the benefit of being here? One of those things should. Be trade one of those things that can be done is, how do we trade better? How can we form better trade agreements, so the next country that wants to join the abraham accords knows, if you join, here's the. Benefit of joining this club how do you start developing those things to make sure that I can be done?
▶ 1:20:58Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator, and I know that this is an issue that is important to you. We had a good introductory conversation about it in your office. One thing that is interesting about some of those countries, we've had existing trade agreements with jordan and morocco for a very long, so we know there a pathway to have good trade relations with these folks as well.
▶ 1:21:18Mr. Greer: Again, I would go back to some of the discussions I had earlier with, I think it was senator bennet, where the president had directed, you know, let's look at existing trade agreements, and let's look at markets for trade agreements might be helpful, and let's do it in a way that is coordinated and pragmatic. So I think if this committee and you believe that we should be looking at some of the potential abraham accords members, as areas where economic growth can happen for americans, american workers, in a good way, then we should talk about that.
▶ 1:21:47Sen. Lankford: The focus is on good foreign-policy for us, good for americans as well. And establishing peaceful relationships across the country, if that allows us to have better trade agreements and better economic activity on it, so we want to be able to continue to drive the message home. China has been dumping products. You and I had talked about this a little while in the office. I appreciate that.
▶ 1:22:12Sen. Lankford: The big challenge we have on china dumping products is not just on china dumping it is the process you have to go through to challenge the dumping of that. The millions of dollars it takes to be able to challenge that, and then, who actually enforces that?
▶ 1:22:25Sen. Lankford: I know largely the department of commerce, from the enforcement of it, but one of the questions that's going to come to you is, how do we have our company is that no chinese products are being jumped on them, and they are killing the market, have a better response them and what pressure can you put, while agreements are going on with the department of commerce, trying to be able to prosecute those, how do you actually put additional pressure to make sure it stops?
▶ 1:22:50Mr. Greer: Yes, thank you, senator. Yeah. This was a great topic of conversation. I know you are concerned about if it is me on this committee know, dealing with unfair imports from china is what I do, it's what I've done in the private sector. It's what I do in the public sector. One thing the president has directed, he has directed the commerce department to look at the dumping laws and see if they can be improved to better serve american companies and workers.
▶ 1:23:18Mr. Greer: With respect to ustr, if I'm confirmed, I would be committed to looking at other unfair trade practices that may be are not captured fully by the laws, to see if we need parallel action going on at the same time to make sure we resolve every aspect of the problem and not just some of the technical dumping issues.
▶ 1:23:33Sen. Lankford: That would be helpful on that. There's also been some conversation of late, this week, dealing with packages coming in from china and how those are going to be handled. This is an area that I encourage you to work with cdp. There was an a pilot agreement established in 2019 to see if we could manage some of this. The pilot program over the last four years has exploded and has dramatically change how we are handling the de minimis issue.
▶ 1:24:03Sen. Lankford: It's not firmly in your area, but is definitely going to be a trade area where we have to make sure how they are paying their fair share of what they should be paying, especially those packages coming in from china, and a significant amount are. One of the questions I had for you when you and I talked in the office, when you are negotiated trade agreements, you will hear many of us talk about the power that you have. Countries want to trade with the united states, because we produce great products come at our manufacturers are tremendous at what they do. They put out a good product, and the whole world once it.
▶ 1:24:33Sen. Lankford: It also means when you sit down with them and say, we want to open up a trade agreement, people are going to want to talk about labor agreements and how we are making sure there not unfair labor practices. What we are doing to make sure we are not having unfair competition. We also have standards for things like religious liberty and free press and all those things.
▶ 1:24:55Sen. Lankford: -- you are an ambassador and you have the ability to sit down and press countries around the world who are oppressing the people on issues like religious liberty, and say you want to trade with us, we want to trade with you, we want to be fair trade, but we want to see action in your country as well. Balance out our people trading with your people. Respect things like labor rights or free press or freedom of religion.
▶ 1:25:22Sen. Lankford: I would encourage you to be able to take that action as well while you are watching out for american interests.
▶ 1:25:29Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator. We will be sure to align with the state department to ensure all our messaging is aligned to encourage the standards and values we would expect.
▶ 1:25:39Sen. Lankford: Thank you.
▶ 1:25:41Chair Crapo: Senator cantwell?
▶ 1:25:44Sen. Cantwell: Thank you for this important meeting, Mr. greer. It was great to visit with you and it is good to see your family here. Yesterday, the department of commerce reported that the united states goods and trade deficit set a record last year of $1.2 trillion. I want to associate myself with the remarks of senator grassley, which is I believe our approach here should be opening markets.
▶ 1:26:13Sen. Cantwell: I believe that we should have an aggressive trade strategy, particularly at a time when we have a growing middle-class around the world. 2019, before the pandemic hit, was the first time the world population, the majority, had reached middle class. I think we calculated in my office if you just sold those people one more thing, what was the value of that.
▶ 1:26:39Sen. Cantwell: Right now, china has something like -- the import something like $40 billion of agriculture. That is one example. That these other markets represent a huge opportunity for us. When you say in your comments, in answering the question of senator grassley, we need concrete examples -- this is where you and I are going to example -- are going to differ.
▶ 1:27:05Sen. Cantwell: I get that you work for a guy who thinks that you throw down the tariffs and force some little deal out of china. I'm saying I want an aggressive continuation of U.S. policy over decades and decades. The bush administration, the clinton administration, and others, opening up markets for our agriculture products.
▶ 1:27:29Sen. Cantwell: I do not like the fact that we tax taxpayers $20 billion last time during the trump administration. That is what they came and asked us for to compensate farmers during that loss. And believe me, I'm being nicer to you than I am to katherine tai. I do not agree with the last trade ambassador's approach to say I'm going to be the trade ambassador but I'm not going to spend time opening markets.
▶ 1:27:58Sen. Cantwell: My question to you is when you look at apples and about 30% of our market export is to canada and mexico, and the U.S. free trade agreement increased that capacity, why are we arguing with our closest neighbors and biggest export markets for apples, and in the meantime not going out and opening up more apple markets? The tariffs that were put on test us an unbelievable retaliatory tariff in india.
▶ 1:28:29Sen. Cantwell: It basically decimated the market. It went from 120 million in india down to one million. And hundreds of families lost their economic -- we have about 68,000 people employed in the apple sector in our state. This is no small number. I fought hard and did get the biden administration to work with india and reverse that tariff on apples. I have to say we are now back to recapturing that market.
▶ 1:29:00Sen. Cantwell: But I don't understand why you think a tariff first approach is the way to capitalize on the biggest task at hand. The biggest task at hand is to get more free trade agreements, to get U.S. products into places. I think I mentioned in my office that I am for an alliance strategy on technology. I would rather have a technology native.
▶ 1:29:26Sen. Cantwell: I would rather bring tech sick -- tech sophisticated nations like us and japan and israel and say, these are the rules of the road, china, and nobody in the world should buy from you if you have a government backdoor. Evangelize that. I believe in competing with china and making this market work.
▶ 1:29:49Sen. Cantwell: I don't understand how the administration can ignore this very big challenge of going and opening up markets, and instead get in a fight, for me, with our biggest market, when they are not really our problem, and not go chase another market like india, or as my colleague from iowa said, these very interesting markets that people are ignoring.
▶ 1:30:18Sen. Cantwell: Every administration comes along and says I like bilateral's, or I like fta's. I am not religious necessarily on tactics. What I want you to have the most aggressive office possible, not to sit here and get into a tariff trade war that does not get resolved for five years, what one that is empowered to open markets and get the job done. I don't understand why this tariff -- Mr. chairman, my time has expired.
▶ 1:30:46Sen. Cantwell: But if somebody could just -- I guess we don't have our apple. I have to fight for these people. I think I mentioned to you in this tariff war, when we lose, it is not that you won't have farmland. It's just that it will be owned by some corporation like goldman sachs or somebody else. But those farm jobs as we saw with this retaliatory tariff as a result of the trump tariffs, did cost families.
▶ 1:31:15Sen. Cantwell: I cannot afford that and we cannot bail them out with taxpayer dollars. Thank you.
▶ 1:31:19Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator daines.
▶ 1:31:23Sen. Daines: Good to see you here again. Thank you for your commitment to service. I am grateful to you and your family. President trump has certainly laid out an ambitious trade agenda. He has taken serious action this week to secure american interests.
▶ 1:31:45Sen. Daines: I share his view that the united states should use every tool at our disposal to secure our borders to stop the flow of dangerous drugs into our communities, and to open new markets around the globe. I applaud the quick work done by president trump ensure that mexico and canada are doing their part.
▶ 1:32:10Sen. Daines: It is important to note that previous blanket tariff policies for steel and for aluminum have serious effects on a wide range of my constituents in montana. Ike wykle to is our number one economic driver in montana.
▶ 1:32:28Sen. Daines: In some cases, the price of aluminum in the united states rose 15%, which increased costs to manufacturers that was ultimately passed to consumers like farmers buying heavy equipment. It is equally important we protect american farmers, ranchers, small businesses, manufacturers, moving quickly to open up new markets in the face of retaliation.
▶ 1:32:59Sen. Daines: The threat of retaliatory tariffs on montana commodities like wheat, barley, and other crops still looms as negotiations continue with canada and mexico. As I chat with my farmers back home, input costs remain very high.
▶ 1:33:22Sen. Daines: Farmers and ranchers are facing razor thin margins, in many cases no negative margins, and the future cost of important inputs like fertilizer as well as energy remains uncertain. Mr.
▶ 1:33:40Sen. Daines: Greer, if confirmed, will you prioritize swift and immediate action to secure new market access for montana producers who are facing the threats of retaliatory tariffs?
▶ 1:33:55Mr. Greer: Senator, thank you for that, and I know that these issues are front and senator for you and your constituents in montana, and these are things I pay close attention to as well.
▶ 1:34:11Mr. Greer: With respect to whether there will be swift action, it is safe to say the president has a bias for action, and I am going to do my best to keep up with him, so I can open up the markets, so I can report back to him if I am confirmed and able to do this that we are opening markets, we are giving montana cattle ranchers and farmers and growers opportunities in a lot of markets to expand market access, to give them better growth for
▶ 1:34:41Mr. Greer: -- from year-to-year. I know every year the farmers and ranchers have to think about how they are going to make the money that year with the input costs, and swift action is what you will get from me if I am confirmed.
▶ 1:34:56Sen. Daines: 95% of the world's consumers live outside of the united states. There are a lot of mouths to feed outside the united states, and great opportunities to think about the future of farm and ranch in montana, one that will depend on access to the 95% of consumers that live outside the united states. The biden administration -- I remember the confirmation hearings with the former ustr.
▶ 1:35:24Sen. Daines: They pursued a very unambitious trade agenda that created a vacuum that allowed countries to fill the void left because of our absence. They were while they were asleep at the wheel, other countries were negotiating trade agreements that led to america falling behind from beef exports to china, wheat to japan, pulse crops to india -- montana ag
▶ 1:35:55Sen. Daines: Has benefited greatly from some of these trade agreements in the pacific. I remember working with chinese leadership to remove a 14 year ban on U.S. beef imports. It is now one of the largest beef markets in the world. We must not forget, despite all of the challenge we face with china today, that it is the second-largest consumer market in the world.
▶ 1:36:19Sen. Daines: There is a lot of opportunity for growth for producers to get access to that important market. We must continue to engage our farmers and ranchers on equal footing with the rest of the world. My final question, Mr.
▶ 1:36:34Sen. Daines: Greer -- how will you ensure that china honors its commitments from that phase one trade deal that senator perdue and myself went to beijing, sat across the table back in late 2019, to complete that phase one deal for president trump?
▶ 1:36:55Sen. Daines: How can we make sure the deal increases access to that important market and ensures that our producers are on a level playing field?
▶ 1:37:06Mr. Greer: Senator, in the president's trade policy memorandum he issued two weeks ago, he directed united states trade representatives to review china's compliance or noncompliance with the phase one trade agreement. There are dispute mechanisms, bilateral, between the U.S. and china, to address failures of compliance.
▶ 1:37:33Mr. Greer: I would very quickly assess the results of that compliance review and very quickly go about enforcing compliance. I think it is of critical importance that if china wants to trade with the united states and have a healthy economic relationship, if that is possible, that a lot of it is premised on fair market access.
▶ 1:37:57Sen. Daines: I am over, but one final statement. If confirmed, I think we will have a good team working with you, working with senator perdue , soon to be ambassador david perdue to china, working together in making tremendous progress and getting access to a very important, very large market.
▶ 1:38:20Sen. Whitehouse: . -- Sen. whitehouse: welcome, Mr. greer. Thank you for our meeting. As senator cassidy, senator graham, and others and I work together toward trying to figure out a proper border tariff, will you provide us technical support and information to help inform our discussions as we proceed?
▶ 1:38:45Mr. Greer: Senator whitehouse, again, thank you for that meeting yesterday as well. Hearing about possibilities of -- I think you are referring to the tariffs on pollution. I think when it comes to this problem, if you will indulge me for a few seconds --
▶ 1:39:06Sen. Whitehouse: I do not have very many seconds.
▶ 1:39:08Mr. Greer: I'm happy to work with you, senator.
▶ 1:39:12Sen. Whitehouse: There you go. We do need your team's technical assistance as we develop a bipartisan proposal. We each have our own. Second, in my days on the intelligence committee, I developed a proposition that the largest aft in human history was the theft by the chinese of american intellectual property through cyber intrusions.
▶ 1:39:34Sen. Whitehouse: In my view, that theft has never been properly recognized in our commercial relationship with china. Is that kind of history of massive theft and inappropriate -- and appropriate consideration when designing a policy with china, including tariffs?
▶ 1:39:58Mr. Greer: Senator, I think that is fundamental to it, and I think it was a driving force behind much of what we did in the first trump administration with respect to china.
▶ 1:40:09Sen. Whitehouse: Third, there is an issue that I think trade policy can help quite a lot, but that we very often overlook here. I am a rhode island or -- rhode islander. Ocean state. Fishing community. What is going on in international fisheries is really a crime. There are pirate fishing fleets out there that answer to no one, whose crews are essentially modern-day slaves.
▶ 1:40:38Sen. Whitehouse: There is a chinese -- a predatory chinese fishing fleet. I would put the word fishing fleet" because often they are doing other business for chinese intelligence services and the military. We don't have a robust response to that.
▶ 1:41:06Sen. Whitehouse: When we met in munich for the security council with the head of africom, he said one of the things we can do to bolster our relationships in coastal africa would be to provide support for them to detect criminal fishing operations, to be able to identify who is doing the criminal fishing operations, and possibly even to enforce against those criminal fishing operations.
▶ 1:41:30Sen. Whitehouse: Our fisheries are having really unfair competition from pirate fishing fleets and from the chinese fishing fleet that are offshore, and it seems to me they are pretty significant tariff ways, when it is a pure pirate operation -- it is going to take some doing to trace it back to the nominal home of the vessel. When it is china, you know.
▶ 1:41:55Sen. Whitehouse: I would ask you to work with particularly senator sullivan and myself, who have been working hard on this issue. We have a bill we hope will pass this year to increase the penalties and the transparency around the pirate fishing fleet, the slave fleet, if you will. To the extent that this can become part of our tariff policy, it would be I think very helpful. It would protect american fisheries against illegal and brutal foreign competition.
▶ 1:42:28Sen. Whitehouse: And with the side benefit that the rapacious behavior that is happening in our seas is causing massive, massive environmental damage and crushing of fisheries, any of the top level, down 90% from their previous numbers, because these fleets are operating without restriction, without law, and without consequence. Is that something you would be willing to work with senator sullivan and me on to try to put a hard stop to?
▶ 1:42:55Mr. Greer: Yes, senator. This is an issue that is important to me.
▶ 1:43:02Sen. Whitehouse: I encourage my colleagues -- it is not just a question of economic competition , our fishermen versus their fishermen. It is also the fact that the chinese fishing fleet is an extremely predatory extension of chinese power into a bunch of areas. Unless we are taking that on as a national security problem, we are missing a significant part of the problems that here. Thank you.
▶ 1:43:25Chair Crapo: I agree with the point you made about our fisheries -- I look forward to working with you about that. Thank you. Sumter smith. -- senator smith.
▶ 1:43:41Sen. Smith: I am so glad to see you and appreciate your family being here and your willingness to serve our country. So, I believe that too often, our national trade policy in the last 35 years or so has really failed american workers. Under both democratic and republican administrations, the profits of big corporate interests who want to import cheap goods have been put ahead of the interests of workers who make things in minnesota and america.
▶ 1:44:10Sen. Smith: I think there also is a direct connection between the significant income inequality that we see in this country and the way that our trade policy has been used to benefit big capital and multinational corporations. As many of my colleagues have discussed this morning, it is not just jobs on the line. It is also our national security. For example, our failed trade policy means we are way too dependent on china for many things, including critical medicines and technologies.
▶ 1:44:40Sen. Smith: So let me ask you -- the role of the U.S. trade representative is a balancing act. If you are confirmed, you would be responsible for forging new trade deals, or maintaining existing export markets, rejecting domestic producers from unfair foreign competition, and making sure that other countries comply with existing trade deals. Did I capture that correctly, do you think?
▶ 1:45:06Mr. Greer: I think that is right senator, yes.
▶ 1:45:12Sen. Smith: Our trade policy needs to not pit american manufacturers against american farmers, and vice versa.
▶ 1:45:19Mr. Greer: I agree 100%.
▶ 1:45:23Sen. Smith: Strike this balance as U.S. trade representative, you are going to have several tools at your disposal. That's take an example of a factory in mexico that is illegally suppressing wages and gaining an unfair advantage over U.S. facilities and workers in the process. You could deploy the rapid response mechanism to get at that problem. Would you agree with that?
▶ 1:45:45Mr. Greer: That is correct.
▶ 1:45:48Sen. Smith: And if a foreign country is engaging in unfair trade practices, you could investigate that and could impose section 301 tariffs on products like steel. President trump did this in his first term on some chinese imports, and president biden I think expanded that with respect to ev's and other critical goods, which I supported from both the trump administration and the biden administration. Have I capture that? This is not leading to a trick question.
▶ 1:46:20Sen. Smith: I'm want to go through this, because I do think that we can find common ground when you and the trump administration is standing up for minnesota workers and minnesota farmers and american producers. I think we can work together, for example, in taking on china 's cheating when it comes to trade. You can hear this is an issue on both sides of the aisle.
▶ 1:46:43Sen. Smith: What if the trump administration is going to be taking reckless steps such as blanket tariffs on our close allies in canada and mexico, I am going to fight that, because I don't think that is going to be good for american workers. I think it is going to end up hurting american workers. So let me ask you how this pans out in real time. You have talked about identifying new opportunities for opening up new markets. This is a long and arduous process. It does not just happen.
▶ 1:47:13Sen. Smith: I'm thinking of the example of what happened with the colombian market. There was a big effort to open up the colombian market to american poultry products. A big deal in minnesota. Then, here comes president trump. He announces this 25% blanket tariff on colombia. I understand that he has pulled that back, what I fear is that the united states, with this kind of erratic and chaotic trade policy -- it is going to make us seem like an unreliable negotiator and trading partner.
▶ 1:47:45Sen. Smith: How will you try to negotiate in good faith with potential trading partners when we have a president who appears willing to tear up agreements on an issue that may be completely unrelated to trade?
▶ 1:47:58Mr. Greer: Senator, thank you for what I think is a very good summation of the trade policy. It is important to remember that we have trade agreements. They all have an exception for matters related to essential security. Dealing with illegal migration of criminals or fentanyl or issues like that, this is clearly an issue of essential security. Sanctions would cut off trade entirely. The president has chosen a different possibility.
▶ 1:48:30Mr. Greer: But it is important for me, if I am confirmed, to make sure I am coordinating with whatever agency is informing tariffs to make sure we are balancing the needs of opening markets, protecting workers, and dealing with essential security matters.
▶ 1:48:46Sen. Smith: I think this is going to continue to be an issue of salience and concern for me and for minnesotans. I think of the work of minnesota and producers to build trading relationships with folks around the world, including in colombia, only to feel as if the ground is being cut out from under them on something completely unrelated, in their minds, to what that agreement was about. Trade agreements, as you know -- we talked about this. They are not like turning on a light.
▶ 1:49:14Sen. Smith: If you are a producer, you build those relationships over time. And then there is also what happens because for every action there is a reaction, and that ends up hurting american producers. This is an area where I think we are going to have significant challenges.
▶ 1:49:32Sen. Hassan: Thank you for this hearing. Welcome and congratulations on your nomination, and to your family as well. Before we dive into trade issues, I want to ask you a really simple question, in light of recent events. If directed by the president of the united states to take action that would break the law, would you follow the law or follow the president's directive?
▶ 1:49:56Mr. Greer: I cannot imagine the president asking me to break the law.
▶ 1:50:01Sen. Hassan: But if he directs you to do something that would break the law, you will stand by the law or stand with the president?
▶ 1:50:07Mr. Greer: I will always stand by the law, and the president will too.
▶ 1:50:14Sen. Hassan: We will differ on the last point but we will hold you to that commitment. Over the weekend, president trump announced tariffs on alt.'s from canada, which he has since delayed, but will go into effect in a few weeks. About 80% of new england's fuel supply comes from canada. For the president delayed the tariffs, some home -- home heating oil customers in new hampshire were notified they would have to pay a 10% surcharge, the proposed amount of the tariff, on their home heating oil bills.
▶ 1:50:44Sen. Hassan: That would add over $100 to the cost of filling a tank with home heating oil. The president's tariffs on heating will also drive up other prices in new hampshire given that canada is new hampshire's largest trading partner. If confirmed, how would you track the impact of the president's tariffs on new hampshire's families and small businesses, and what actions would you take to address increased prices caused by these tariffs?
▶ 1:51:13Mr. Greer: Senator, thank you for that question. That is something that I expect, if confirmed, not only the office of the trade representative, but the council of economic advisers and others would look closely at the economic effects of any measures taken to secure the national security of the united states. These are things where it is hard to do this. How we balance the cost of lives lost to fentanyl against other potential costs -- I know that is not what you are asking.
▶ 1:51:42Sen. Hassan: I was governor of new hampshire for four years. I have been on the forefront of combating fentanyl in this body and in new hampshire for a decade now, and we are actually making some progress -- progress, by the way, that was threatened by the omb order that froze critical grants that were appropriated by this article one body of the united states constitution. But I have heard from my customers, some of whom voted for Mr. trump because he promised them that essential costs would come down.
▶ 1:52:12Sen. Hassan: They are getting this document that is telling them that their home heating oil expense will go up by the amount of the tariff. When we talked in my office, you said you did not expect that to happen. Well, it is happening at the same time the omb order threatened home heating assistance to people. It was -20 degrees in berlin, new hampshire on sunday.
▶ 1:52:39Sen. Hassan: Between the tariff threat in the home heating oil freeze, people are really worried about being able to heat their homes. So what I want to know is what will you do, if confirmed, to combat that increase in price caused by tariffs.
▶ 1:52:58Mr. Greer: First of all, I think it is important to note that when the president put out those executive orders related to potential tariffs on canada and mexico, they were for 20%. He said it would be just 10% on energy. For my role, I want to make sure I am coordinating with border protection and homeland security, so I can understand where they are in negotiations with canada.
▶ 1:53:25Sen. Hassan: Here is what we need at the northern border. We need more cooperation from canada although they have been good partners. We need a lot more border personnel from the united states government. And we need to take some other quick actions. Let me just remind you that $100 more for a family to fill their heating tank is a significant cost, and may cause some real, real harm.
▶ 1:53:53Sen. Hassan: There are other ways to combat the security issues that you talk about in making people who are hardly making it through the winter pay $100 more for each tank of oil. Let's turn to another issue. When we met in december, we discussed creating a hotline at the office of the U.S. trade representative for small businesses to call to help navigate increased prices from tariffs. This hotline would also help small businesses navigate any exclusion process set up by the administration.
▶ 1:54:21Sen. Hassan: It is critical for new hampshire small businesses that any exclusion process be fair, transparent, and nonpartisan. When you commit to working with me to create this small business hotline? I see my time is up. I will submit my remaining question on out competing china, something I have worked on with senator cassidy, for the record.
▶ 1:54:42Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator lujan.
▶ 1:54:47Sen. Lujan: Thank you for holding this hearing today. In 2024, new mexico exported over $10.5 billion worth of goods from less than $5 billion the year before. Over 60% of those exports last year went to mexico, and were worth over $6.5 billion.
▶ 1:55:07Sen. Lujan: I appreciated our conversation yesterday about your priorities and thoughts regarding united states trade representative ambassador's role in directing trade policy in this country and its impact on our economy and american workers. As you know, the 2010 he six usmca review is approaching. President trump has threatened tariffs on mexico. What specific changes to the agreement would you advocate for?
▶ 1:55:33Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator, and I appreciate our conversation yesterday in your office. I know that being a border state , you have insight into our relationship with mexico, which as you acknowledged is complex across not just trade, but security, foreign policy, etc.
▶ 1:55:53Mr. Greer: As we enter this process of taking a second look at usmca, which was built into the process deliberately by congress to make sure it is relevant and beneficial to americans, we need to look closely at things like the rules of origin to make sure that foreign countries of concern are not inadvertently or deliberately benefiting or free writing on the agreement at the expense of america and our trading partners.
▶ 1:56:17Mr. Greer: I want to make sure that the type of market access we have secured in canada and mexico are things that are actually acted upon. We all know we have issues with canada dairy, with corn into mexico. We have issues with energy in mexico. These are things where our trading partners need to be held accountable. It is important for the political and economic sustainability of that agreement and are trade relationships with canada and mexico that these issues be addressed, and be addressed in a timely way.
▶ 1:56:50Mr. Greer: Simply john under the previous trump administration, you were instrumental in the drafting and negotiating of these documents. You are one of the few people that has intimate knowledge about these documents. You are maybe the most well versed. Are there changes you would point to that you would change?
▶ 1:57:05Mr. Greer: I certainly would. I mentioned the rules of origin. I think we should look at the rules of origin for automobiles and aerospace and other things, and I think we need to look and see if we need to have any kind of restriction on content, value added, from foreign countries that have nonmarket economies, that benefit from unfair trading practices and subsidies and somehow get their content into goods that are going across the border. They benefit from the agreement without taking any obligations.
▶ 1:57:36Mr. Greer: I think it would be worthwhile for us to look -- working with the unions, with industry, with our exporters -- to see what we can do to make sure the agreement benefits american workers and american businesses, as opposed to businesses and workers in third countries.
▶ 1:57:51Sen. Lujan: Would you protect or change the language surrounding the clauses in the trade agreement to workers as currently drafted?
▶ 1:58:03Mr. Greer: We worked closely in the first trump administration with labor to develop what I think is the most ambitious labor chapter in the agreement. Senator wyden helped develop a lot of that language, including the rapid response mechanism.
▶ 1:58:17Sen. Lujan: Would you protect that language?
▶ 1:58:20Mr. Greer: I would certainly protect that.
▶ 1:58:25Sen. Lujan: Given that mexico is new mexico's largest trade partner, how would you ensure increased tariffs do not disrupt my state's economy?
▶ 1:58:32Mr. Greer: Something to look at -- we have history on this. In the first trump term, we had very robust trade policy and inflation went down over time. Unemployment went down. If I am confirmed and I am able to help robust -- a moment a robust and pragmatic trade policy at the same time the administration is going to be implementing a pragmatic energy policy, regulatory policy, permitting process -- permitting policy -- all of these things need to work together to result
▶ 1:59:02Mr. Greer: In growth across all demographics, which is something we achieved in the first trump administration. We can do it again.
▶ 1:59:11Sen. Lujan: Not to over simplify, but trickle-down economics will help my state because of the president' us approach to the economy if the tariffs are enacted?
▶ 1:59:19Mr. Greer: I don't believe that is trickle-down. Whether it is tariffs or market opening, these are benefits that go directly to workers who are working on the line in a factory. This is broad-based growth. This is how it happened in the first trump term. There was broad wage and income growth across non-graphics. That is the kind of growth we want to have.
▶ 1:59:40Sen. Lujan: Can I get your commitment that if these tariffs negatively impact the businesses in new mexico that I have your word to get that corrected?
▶ 1:59:49Mr. Greer: Senator, I want to hear but those impacts are and make sure they are able to benefit from the growth. Suppler joint do I have your word that I can count on you?
▶ 2:00:05Mr. Greer: I cannot guarantee economic outcomes but we can get incentives to benefit workers in the businesses they work for. And I want to work with you to promote that and pursue that. I cannot guarantee everything the market is going to do or that wages do, but we can do what we can to make sure it is broad-based growth. Suppler john ideal back. Sen. -- suppler john ideal back -- Sen. lujan: ideal back.
▶ 2:00:36Sen. Blackburn: Your family hails from trail, tennessee. We need to get you back in the state, let you see our world logistics in memphis, and meet some of these wonderful manufacturers that we have in the state. Trade is important to us in tennessee.
▶ 2:00:59Sen. Blackburn: Last year, we had about $62 billion in goods and in manufacturing plants with over 360,000 workers. Of course, this is automobiles. It is appliances. It is good old tennessee whiskey. That of course being a primary export from our state.
▶ 2:01:26Sen. Blackburn: But tennessee is one of those states that is a manufacturing powerhouse. Because of this, the inputs are important. Right now, I have two bipartisan bills over in commerce committee that deal with supply chains and strengthening those supply chains, because those key components, whether it is specialty metals or minerals or active pharmaceutical agreements -- pharmaceutical agreements,
▶ 2:01:58Sen. Blackburn: All of this in advanced manufacturing is vital to us. And knowing that these inputs are going to come from trusted sources, that they are going to come from our allies, and allow us to return to domestic manufacturing, is something that is important.
▶ 2:02:18Sen. Blackburn: So what I would like to hear from you is what steps you will take to strengthen these supply chains for us, for these domestic manufacturers, and make certain they can get what they need without having to necessarily deal with china.
▶ 2:02:36Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator, and it was great to meet with you in your office. You have been a consistent supporter for me and I really appreciate that. That means a lot to me. You are fortunate in tennessee to have a really dynamic economy. I think a lot of the country can learn a lot by looking at tennessee. You manufacture. You have all of these things that lead to robust growth.
▶ 2:03:02Mr. Greer: Think when you talk about supply chains, I think that is really important. Historically, we have often approached trade policy sometimes on a product byproduct basis, right? Get a trade remedy for a specific product. And that is important, but we need to think in terms of supply chains, particularly strategic ones. In many cases, we need trade policies and other economic policies that incentivize production in the U.S., so we can have a secure source.
▶ 2:03:30Mr. Greer: At the same time, there are going to be instances where we need to procure those from elsewhere, and we want to create incentives to bring in these kinds of things, to the extent we have to, from countries that agree with us on the things that matter the most, countries that abide by the rule of law. I'm a little skeptical because I know that a lot of countries, even those that say they are our allies, have unfair trade practices and subsidies and things that undermine free and fair trade. I want to deal with that.
▶ 2:03:58Sen. Blackburn: That is true, and senator hassan mentioned to you about small businesses. We have small-business distributors that can only get things from a certain country, and there needs to be that carveout or that recognition. Take something like tequila for a distributor in tennessee. There is only one place they are going to get that. Likewise, you mentioned ag.
▶ 2:04:26Sen. Blackburn: We have 70,000 farms in the state. Eddie percent of those are independent. They are not corporate farms. China had agreed to purchase $200 billion. You are very well aware of that. That was part of the phase I deal. You were part of that. China is not living up to buying the soy and the cotton, and the things that were included in that deal for tennessee farmers. And we would like to have your attention on that.
▶ 2:04:52Mr. Greer: Senator, my attention will be on that if I am confirmed. The president will assess areas of noncompliance.
▶ 2:05:03Sen. Blackburn: Before my time runs out, digital trade is vitally important to us. You mentioned ip protections. For many of our innovators, our entertainers, having this presence in digital trade, and making certain that we are not weakening our position on the global stage, or hurting tennessee businesses that transact in that virtual space -- that will be important.
▶ 2:05:33Sen. Blackburn: And my time is up, but I would like for you to submit to me what we can do, what you will do , to recoup that digital trade and protect that ip. And I thank you. I yield back, Mr. chair.
▶ 2:05:49Chair Crapo: Thank you.
▶ 2:05:51Sen. Welch: Thank you. And welcome. You are being considered for one of the most important jobs that affects our economy, as you know. You have a lot of experience in the work you have done. My view is that trade policy has failed the average american.
▶ 2:06:15Sen. Welch: We have exported jobs in return for importing cheap goods, and it has hollowed out a lot of communities. It is something that president trump did talk about. So the first thing I want to ask you is, how do you see, and what are the specific agreements you will be working on, when you take office?
▶ 2:06:42Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator, and I appreciate your comments and really enjoyed our conversation. Right out of the gate, I expect we will take a second look at the usmca. It is mandated by the agreement. As part of the view, I'm supposed to go to the public and that their views. I'm supposed to go to congress.
▶ 2:07:02Sen. Welch: How has that worked out? That was negotiated during the trump administration.
▶ 2:07:07Mr. Greer: In some areas, it has driven expanded automotive production in north america and the united states, which is beneficial. I know the biden administration has taken steps to look at labor conditions in mexico. I know a lot of our agricultural community was glad to get in some cases expanded market access, but there were problems.
▶ 2:07:31Sen. Welch: What role do you see tariffs playing in our trade policy?
▶ 2:07:34Mr. Greer: With respect to terrace, we need to create incentives to produce in america and to get market access overseas. Our average tariff rate in the united states is 3.5%, it is substantially lower than many markets.
▶ 2:07:49Sen. Welch: So you see tariffs as a tool for market access and for on shoring jobs here?
▶ 2:07:56Mr. Greer: Exactly. It can be used as a tool for revenue.
▶ 2:08:03Sen. Welch: That is a whole new thing. Your job is trade policy. If we are talking about tariffs for revenue, would you agree with me that that is a tax? The tariffs are ultimately paid by the consumers.
▶ 2:08:20Mr. Greer: Taxes are an assessment on foreign goods --
▶ 2:08:28Sen. Welch: I'm went to stop here. When you are using your responsibility on trade policy -- a tariff is being used essentially as a negotiating tool on a one-off situation, as these recent tariffs in mexico and canada were. That is a tax and is beyond trade policy. It is the president trying to use that power for leverage.
▶ 2:08:50Sen. Welch: Do you think that the proper use of the congressionally extended authority to the president in national emergencies to impose tariffs apply to a national emergency we have with canada?
▶ 2:09:02Mr. Greer: Yes.
▶ 2:09:06Sen. Welch: I don't. Do you think there should be a heads up to an ally like canada that we are contemplating doing something that is going to have a big impact on the usmca, where we negotiated that in good faith, and by and large all parties are in compliance?
▶ 2:09:21Mr. Greer: In this instance, the president talked about it in late november and talked about it for several months.
▶ 2:09:29Sen. Welch: I'm with senator hassan. This has a huge impact on vermont. We do most of our trade with canada. We had a roundtable and I asked various businesses, and we had over 150 businesses on this call. There was a large, very successful construction company, and a woman who gets yarn and is weaving, and organic farmers.
▶ 2:09:55Sen. Welch: Every one of these people was just stunned at the implications that these out of the blue threats of tariffs were going to have on their businesses. I mean, don't people deserve a heads up in vermont before they get whacked with what appears to be a tariff for an individual objective of president trump?
▶ 2:10:20Mr. Greer: Senator, the president was transparent for several months that he was contemplating doing this because of the fentanyl and illegal migration issues. It is important for people to understand what may be coming, especially if the president uses his congressionally delegated responsibility.
▶ 2:10:37Sen. Welch: I appreciate you and your candor. What Mr. chairman and ranking member, I do have concern about the delegation, the abuse of the delegation of tariff authority to a president, to be used for national emergency, to be used in one-off negotiating tactics. I do believe that is a tax, and I don't think that any president should be able to unilaterally impose a tax.
▶ 2:11:04Sen. Welch: One of the things I am increasingly worried about is the abdication of our own article one authority, weakening this branch of government, for any president to totally disregard the people's branch. Thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:11:23Sen. Warnock: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. In our meeting, we discussed the importance of the inflation reduction act and its clean energy investments in georgia. I enjoyed our conversation very much. Welcome and congratulations to you, and welcome to your family. We talked about these provisions in the I.r.a.
▶ 2:11:51Sen. Warnock: The state of georgia has seen growth in our advanced manufacturing sector, with oath domestic companies and foreign companies making significant investment, due in large measure to the I.r.a.'s clean energy investments bringing a lot of jobs to georgia.
▶ 2:12:13Sen. Warnock: One of the things that I am very proud of as a lifelong native of georgia is that little dalton, georgia, known as the carpet capital of the world -- if you are walking on the floor anywhere, there is a good chance you are walking on something created in dalton. Who would have imagined that dalton, georgia would become such a leader in the manufacturing of solar panels?
▶ 2:12:42Sen. Warnock: This is due to the korean solar manufacturer bringing thousands of jobs to georgia, crating a domestic solar industry almost entirely free from chinese supply chains. However, it needs trade protections to compete against a heavily subsidized chinese industry.
▶ 2:13:03Sen. Warnock: If confirmed as the nation's trade representative, how would you work to protect and to grow domestic solar and clean energy manufacturing to ensure our supply chain does not depend on china?
▶ 2:13:16Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator, and I am glad to hear you express concern and interest in this. These are things I am concerned about. To the extent that there is going to be energy products manufactured and used in the united states, it would be great to have them made here, and that we are not using panels that come from china, and in some instances may be a product of forced labor or be a product of subsidies. The first trump administration did a safeguard tariff.
▶ 2:13:46Mr. Greer: The commerce department for many years have hot -- has had other tariffs in place. Those can be effective tools. You have testified that we have had some of this. We see places like europe where they did not do those tools and we have seen their solar panel industry go away. Very interested in maintaining that production here.
▶ 2:14:05Sen. Warnock: I appreciate that and I look forward to continuing to have that conversation. I'm excited about the investments in solar energy in georgia. I'm also proud that georgia, in many ways, is leading the country in building electric cars entirely in the united states, employing thousands of georgians. Down near my hometown, there is a kia plant. We have got about 9000 more jobs that have been created in that area.
▶ 2:14:35Sen. Warnock: A major economic boom. President trump and congressional republicans have bragged about repealing federal investments in the green economy that created these jobs. Jobs that have bipartisan support in my state. I support what we are doing there. The republican governor supports it. This is a top bipartisan economic issue in georgia. It is about american manufacturing.
▶ 2:15:06Sen. Warnock: If confirmed, how will you use your position to protect the investments and thousands of jobs -- jobs that foreign car companies have brought to georgia?
▶ 2:15:17Mr. Greer: Senator, my role and my jurisdiction in the administration is to negotiate trade deals where appropriate and to do trade enforcement as necessary, which is an area where I want to make sure that manufacturing does not have to compete unfairly with foreign product, with respect to incentives or other legislation. That is something I believe the treasury department and the energy department, working with the president and congress will determine a way for.
▶ 2:15:46Sen. Warnock: Would you agree that if we see that space, that it is not a net positive result for american business and manufacturing?
▶ 2:15:54Mr. Greer: I think we need to have advanced manufacturing in the united states as much as possible, whether it is traditional or electric vehicles or solar panels.
▶ 2:16:06Sen. Warnock: So clean energy should not stop us from doing what is necessary?
▶ 2:16:12Mr. Greer: It makes sense with a broader energy policy. We should be making those things here if possible. I agree with that.
▶ 2:16:22Sen. Warnock: I have other questions but I am about out of time.
▶ 2:16:24Chair Crapo: Thank you for recognizing the time. I appreciate it.
▶ 2:16:30Sen. Warren: Congratulations on your nomination, Mr. greer. Tariffs are an important strategic economic tool, but I am concerned that president trump is stumbling into a trade war that won't protect jobs, that won't keep americans safe, and that won't bring down costs for american families. That said, I think you and I agree that for too long, U.S.
▶ 2:16:57Sen. Warren: Trade policy has been a race to the bottom, with deal after deal that sold out american workers and helped multinational corporations offshore critical industries. But lately, that has been changing under U.S. trade rep bob lighthizer and under U.S. trade rep katherine tai. And I appreciate your work as chief of staff under ambassador lighthizer.
▶ 2:17:25Sen. Warren: Investor lighthizer I think had it right when he wrote that problems in our trade relationship with china, and U.S. trade policy in general, can be traced to "the political establishment of both the republican and democratic parties under the influence of multinational corporations and importers." do you agree with Mr.
▶ 2:17:52Sen. Warren: Lighthizer that multinational corporations have just had too much power over U.S. trade policy?
▶ 2:17:57Mr. Greer: I agree with investor lighthizer, and I believe that trade policy in the past has been designed to help that sector and has ignored other sectors.
▶ 2:18:12Sen. Warren: We have to start by recognizing the problem, right? For too long, corporate lobbyists have bought their way into our tde policy, and I am glad to see that changing. Raising tariffs does not necessarily mean an end to corporate capture. When the last trump administration hiked tariffs, corporate lobbyists lined up to demand exemptions. And now with president trump threatening even more tariffs, they are ready to do it again.
▶ 2:18:40Sen. Warren: What did this tariff exemption process look like the last time around? I investigated and I found that the trump commerce department was three times as likely to approve exemptions for chinese and japanese headquartered companies than american ones. Mr. greer, favoring foreign companies over american ones -- is that good trade policy?
▶ 2:19:05Mr. Greer: Senator, I think our trade policy needs to make sure we have american fitness is an american workers prioritized.
▶ 2:19:14Sen. Warren: Let's try another one. A recent study found that the trump ustr officials were more likely to grant exemptions to china tariffs to companies that had made campaign contributions to republicans, or had lobbyists who had recently left the trump administration. Mr. greer, favoring companies with deep pockets and political connections -- is that good trade policy?
▶ 2:19:41Mr. Greer: Of course not, and any kind of program like that needs to be transparent and have the rules outlined, which it did.
▶ 2:19:48Sen. Warren: I appreciate that answer. This time around, president trump has proposed far broader tariffs and we have seen before -- potential he on all goods from all countries. And with more and more tariffs, the corporate scramble for exemptions is more and more intense. One train lobbyist recently said absolutely everyone is calling. It is nonstop. And let's be clear.
▶ 2:20:20Sen. Warren: Most businesses across america cannot afford armies of lobbyists. So, Mr. greer, do you support tariff exclusions, these exemptions? And if so, what changes would you make to ensure that it is a fair process and not just a giveaway to political insiders and deep-pocketed corporations?
▶ 2:20:43Mr. Greer: Senator, I know you have been a leader on this and have given a lot of thought to it, which I think is important. Any time we are taking economic actions, whether it is a tariff or an exclusion, we need to be careful. We need to be thoughtful. In the event tariffs are applied, I don't know if the president tends to have an exclusion policy. This needs to be transparent.
▶ 2:21:08Mr. Greer: One thing they did at ustr the first time around is if one company got an exclusion, any company got an exclusion, right? If a big company got an exclusion for certain products, the small business would. Again, I don't know if there will be exclusion processes. To the extent there is, they need to be transparent. They need to be fair for small and large.
▶ 2:21:31Sen. Warren: I appreciate what you have to say around this. As I said before, I think tariffs are an important tool when used strategically and fairly. They can promote american industries. They can protect domestic supply chains. They can protect the jobs of american workers. But we cannot have a get out of tariff free system for those that are very wealthy or politically connected, because that will undermine the whole process. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:22:00Chair Crapo: Senator johnson?
▶ 2:22:03Sen. Johnson: Welcome. When I was chairman of homeland in february of 2020, right as the pandemic was starting, we held a hearing with scott gottlieb and other former heads of the cdc, fda, that type of thing. One thing I was surprised to find out is that we really do not produce the precursor chemicals or the active pharmaceutical ingredients for our drugs. I thought that was an enormous vulnerability.
▶ 2:22:31Sen. Johnson: That would be the top of my list in terms of strategic products we need to bring back manufacturing of. It is a refining process. There are environmental regulations. What other strategic products are top of your list that we do need to think out-of-the-box to figure out how to bring those back here so we are not vulnerable question mark and how would you view your role in terms of using your position to help achieve those goals?
▶ 2:22:58Mr. Greer: I'm glad you raised this because this is something I think about a lot. I have testified before congress previously about these issues. Pharmaceuticals for sure is when I think we need to look at. Semiconductors and downstream electronics is something where congress has taken action. I think we need to look at aerospace. We have chinese aircraft manufacturers coming online, and they are going to be challenging the market.
▶ 2:23:26Sen. Johnson: We probably need to help boeing as opposed to try to beat up on them, right?
▶ 2:23:30Mr. Greer: Well -- [laughter] but I think industrial robotics, technologies like ai and quantum computing, we need to be ahead of the game. Couple johnson wisconsin is not only a big agriculture state, but a manufacturing state. The reality is we start slapping tariffs on steel -- I have manufacturers who only can import some of the types of steel. They're competing against global manufacturers that are going to have access to chinese steel.
▶ 2:24:01Mr. Greer: You understand the nature of a trade war in that situation. Can you speak to how we can handle that and try to minimize whatever pain tariffs might create?
▶ 2:24:15Mr. Greer: The steel and aluminum tariffs imposed by the trump administration and kept by the biden administration, as I think you know, are managed and operated by the department of commerce. To the extent I am working with the secretary, if he is confirmed, I am happy to talk with him about this. It is important that the administration and the commerce department received feedback, and on these more sensitive areas. We have to have a steel and aluminum industry. Simile have to.
▶ 2:24:43Mr. Greer: It does require protection because of the overcapacity in the world. To the extent there are concerns about the program, we need to hear from you and your constituents.
▶ 2:24:52Sen. Johnson: China is a bad actor. They have grotesque overproduction. It is a problem that needs to be dealt with. I'm asking is your commitment to work closely with us. Answer our phone calls. There is multiple uses for tariffs. Scott bessent talked about that. To force trading partners to be fair with us, to achieve other goals.
▶ 2:25:20Sen. Johnson: President trump certainly use that in his first term to secure the border when mexico was not cooperating with remain in mexico. Tariffs, and all of a sudden we secured the border. Another time was revenue. I want to go through what the revenue model is you are talking about. I am concerned about and $1.8 trillion deficit, more than 1.5 as far as the eye can see. This could be one component. I have heard figures of almost a trillion dollars in revenue, or replacing the income tax.
▶ 2:25:51Sen. Johnson: I'm not seeing it. I like numbers. The latest trade figures I have is, in 2023, we have about 3.9 trillion dollars in imports. Of that, only about 3.1 were goods. I'm not aware that we ever put tariffs on services, correct?
▶ 2:26:06Mr. Greer: We have not put tariffs on services.
▶ 2:26:11Sen. Johnson: We have 3.1 trillion dollars in imports. A tariff would raise about $310 billion in a tariff revenue. That is not even close to replacing income tax. Where am I hearing these figures? Where is president trump potentially getting these figures? What do you have in your mind, a goal in terms of what revenue you want to raise through some type of tariff policy?
▶ 2:26:41Mr. Greer: I'm happy to talk about this. Some of this is in the wheelhouse of the secretary of the treasury with respect to the income tax. There are initiatives going on right now about spending and corporate levels of spending. I do not think we're in a position to tomorrow fund the entire government using tariff revenue. I don't think that is the case.
▶ 2:27:06Mr. Greer: We have had tariff revenues as an important part of funding the government prior to the income tax.
▶ 2:27:11Sen. Johnson: That is when the federal government was still part of gdp.
▶ 2:27:15Mr. Greer: These things combined, it is a question of how we fund the government. What should the government be paying for? What does the budget look like? I understand I am repeating your question back to you. Not giving you a number because I don't have a number on this. But I think these are important issues to chase down.
▶ 2:27:34Mr. Greer: And I think we have to have a sense that if we are going to be using -- if the president wants to use tariff revenue, it is important to make sure we have a good handle on the budget and how those revenues could be used, and that is a conversation from congress.
▶ 2:27:48Sen. Johnson: My numbers are largely accurate?
▶ 2:27:53Mr. Greer: That is exact right.
▶ 2:27:55Chair Crapo: Senator cassidy?
▶ 2:27:59Sen. Cassidy: Let me couple met you. My grandson would be climbing the wall right now. Your kids have been incredibly well behaved with minimal fidgeting, if any at all. Congratulations on your parenting skills. Let me ask you this.
▶ 2:28:15Sen. Cassidy: You have been concerned -- you have expressed skepticism about the need for binding dispute mechanisms at the wto, but my rice producers and others have won decisions at the wto from commitments on other I were culture subsidies, and yet they are not enforced. Are my agricultural people just out in the cold? There are disputes that they win, but now if they get the dispute it is not enforced.
▶ 2:28:46Sen. Cassidy: How are we going to handle that?
▶ 2:28:49Mr. Greer: Senator, I think you are exactly right, and that is why I show skepticism sometimes about the wto. We win a case. We get a result, and it is not fixed.
▶ 2:29:10Sen. Cassidy: You have got to win the case, and the lack of enforcement is important, but that does not mean you throw out when in the case, if you know what I'm saying.
▶ 2:29:18Mr. Greer: You can try to negotiate, which is on its face successful if you do not have the leverage behind it. You have some legitimate authority. We also have domestic laws like section 301 that can identify and detect unfair trading practices.
▶ 2:29:38Sen. Cassidy: All of those are kind of like economic necessity. Are you seeing that we would use other mechanisms? We would abandon wto idr -- I have to use a lot of abbreviations -- and rely on existing laws domestically to provide tariff relief?
▶ 2:29:54Mr. Greer: I think we have to use any tools we have available to get relief so we can help the market out.
▶ 2:30:01Sen. Cassidy: Why would we be tossing a tool out? Not only any tool, but tossing out the tool of the idr, even if they are defaulting. It seems that we are taking a tool and getting rid of it when we just said any tool we can.
▶ 2:30:16Mr. Greer: Part of the problems we have had with the wto, and this is been bipartisan -- I have seen letters from the chairman and the ranking member about how we need to make sure the wto does not undermine our trade rights and trade laws -- if we can use the wto effectively to negotiate rules or to get a good result, that is fine, do your point, we have to have enforcement. At the end of the day, that means ustr has to go enforce the law, and sometimes that means imposing tariffs.
▶ 2:30:48Sen. Cassidy: That is my next question. You are setting it up beautifully. About 40% of the imported trim to the united states comes from india. The e.u., japan, finds illegal antibiotics, and there are allegations they used forced labor at every step of the supply chain. I think I raise this with your former boss, with katherine tai, and then with you.
▶ 2:31:10Sen. Cassidy: If we have tariffs as a tool and we can show, my gosh, there are senatorial -- sanitary issues, there are forced labor issues, and yet we are having our people driven out of business by shrimp being dumped into our country, would you commit to slapping a tariff on the shrimp if we can show it is being imported under those circumstances?
▶ 2:31:32Mr. Greer: There is a process in section 301 and other statutes. If I prejudge them, I get in trouble in the courts, right? But if we have an investigation and it shows unfair trading practices, could certainly impose a tariff or other measures if that trade practice is not remedied.
▶ 2:31:50Mr. Greer: I think it is important to work with if they are not getting the relief they need, then we need to explore whether it is section 301 are other tools to make sure we are detecting against fairness and addressing them. >> I am not against tariffs. Tariffs for tariff's sake, I am not sure so sure about.
▶ 2:32:18Mr. Greer: One thing I am concerned about is that china is not enforcing environmental regulations. They produce a lot of sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide in the atmosphere, it blows over to our country but it lowers our cost of manufacturing by 20% and our industry moves there because they just lowered it to manufacturing cost by 20% by dumping their air pollution on us.
▶ 2:32:50Mr. Greer: I have proposed a fee on the carbon intensive products from countries which do not enforce internationally accepted norms on pollution control. Any thoughts on that?
▶ 2:33:02Mr. Greer: You have articulated the problem statement very well. There is an unlevel playing field and other countries take advantage of the lack of environmental regulations. We will differ on the appropriate level of regulations that we are cleaner in the way we manufacture. It will be interesting to explore with you and the rest of the committee how do we address that issue. I think we have to think of creative notions on how to do it.
▶ 2:33:29Mr. Greer: >> I take that as your commitment to support the foreign pollution fee. Thank you very much.
▶ 2:33:37Chair Wyden: Senator tillis. Senator young.
▶ 2:33:43Sen. Young: Thank you, Mr. tillis and Mr. chairman. During the last administration trade policy seemed to be treated as an abstract concept. Not really an opportunity for america to gain market share, to make our people wealthier. If anything, trade policy was something where we were consistently in a defensive crouch. It screamed insecurity.
▶ 2:34:15Sen. Young: It screamed weakness and I am certainly expecting better from this muscular administration as it relates to trade policy. Ignoring trade does not make us stronger. It cedes ground when we are looking for allies to shore up our supply chain, by building redundancies.
▶ 2:34:43Sen. Young: I have introduced a strategic minerals act. We introduced it yesterday, that would give this president and future president or authority when it comes to renegotiating sector specific free-trade agreements. Focused exclusively on critical minerals and rare earth elements. We need these. We do not have them in the ground here. So we need to trade in order to get access to them.
▶ 2:35:13Sen. Young: My legislation is designed to bolster cooperation. We are looking for vectors of cooperation with friends and allies to eliminate barriers, to enhance our nation's economic security so we are not starved of essentials as we were recently during the pandemic. Mr. greer, you have expressed support for sectoral trade agreements in the past.
▶ 2:35:34Sen. Young: If confirmed, which countries and sectors do you see as the most viable for securing market opening trade deals that will uplift american businesses and workers and how will you ensure that the united states is no longer shut out of critical supply chains?
▶ 2:35:49Mr. Greer: I appreciate your views on this and the conversation we had in your office. I will note at the top that the presidents trade policy memorandum that he set out two weeks ago, one of the things he talked about was considering whether bilateral or sectoral agreements might make sense in some areas. I spoke earlier with senator johnson about some of the key supply chains that I worry about.
▶ 2:36:17Mr. Greer: Pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, critical minerals, rare earth, those all fall into that. I want to be careful when talking about trade agreements because I don't want to be in the position of going to a country with a $50 billion surplus and they want us to pull cars and trucks for them. That is not the agreement I want. If there is an agreement with like-minded countries who are in line with us, those are the places we should focus.
▶ 2:36:45Sen. Young: Excellent. I am encouraged by that response. Given the limitations of executive agreements, they only last for the duration of a president's term, in this case it would be four years.
▶ 2:37:04Sen. Young: And the necessity of congressional approval for binding market access deals, do you believe ustr would be in a stronger position if congress provided a clear legislative framework similar to tpa but tailored to sector specific agreements like those for critical minerals?
▶ 2:37:24Mr. Greer: That is creative. Any agreement that the ustr might bring to congress, I want it to have full support. We had 89 senators vote for it, almost 400 folks in the house. That is the support I want. If congress things a legislature framework would help, I would be happy to talk about what makes sense.
▶ 2:37:45Sen. Young: A related topic of interest to me because the U.S. is so sophisticated when it comes to the digital economy, digital trade. There is a geopolitical overlay to our engagement with other countries, tearing down barriers, digital products if we embedded in our products, privacy rights, consumer protection, all the things
▶ 2:38:16Sen. Young: Americans value. If the chinese or others want to sell into our large countries, they need to abide by our values. That is really exciting. There is an economic dimension to this as well. The previous administration did nothing despite bipartisan support for expanding digital trade access. Instead, they played defense the whole time, thinking trade was a four letter word.
▶ 2:38:47Sen. Young: If confirmed,, how will you prevent the discriminatory treatment of key U.S. companies and make sure they are competing on a level playing field?
▶ 2:38:58Mr. Greer: In the first red
▶ 2:39:04Mr. Greer: In the first r trump administration, we took action. There are many jurisdictions in the world right now that are doing this and other measures to try to control business models of our digital champions and I want to make sure that if anyone is regulate in companies, it is going to be us. I think we need to explore section 301 and others mixtures -- other measures.
▶ 2:39:26Sen. Young: I look forward to working with you toward that objective. Thank you so much.
▶ 2:39:30Chair Wyden: Senator tillis.
▶ 2:39:35Sen. Tillis: Thank you Mr. chairman. My staff is bringing you all a goodie bag. You need to know that I have three big sisters that are also although sometimes they can be bad. Pearl, you get to share that with your sisters but you have control. Mr. greer, thank you for being here. You have done an extraordinary job. There is nothing I can do in five minutes that will do justice to all the discussions I want to have with you.
▶ 2:40:06Sen. Tillis: Neptune, more than 50% of our trade is canada, mexico and china. Yet I am wide open to some of these innovative ideas to hold these countries accountable because it could be some short-term uncertainty with the benefit of long-term gain. Mr. chair, I would like with unanimous consent to submit this commentary forom Mr.
▶ 2:40:32Sen. Tillis: Greer just recently on the posture we should have toward south korea. Without objection. I'm going to give you a break actually. All of the opening comments about the president creating uncertainty, let's talk about that. He threatened columbia if they did not start working with the united states, and he was going to impose tariffs.
▶ 2:41:05Sen. Tillis: President pedro said no way. He just said it was going to go to the brink because of the illegal immigrants coming from columbia and it turns out, I know people have said that the president blinked but in this case, it was not president trump. It was president petro and now he is showing respect for our laws.
▶ 2:41:32Sen. Tillis: He should probably also pay attention to an environment that would force families to make the dangerous truth all the way from columbia to pay a cartel to come across the border to come to the united states. Maybe that president should not only work with the united states but understand he has fundamental problems that would cause responsible parents to do that. So get to work at home. Mexico, same thing.
▶ 2:42:00Sen. Tillis: The president threatened the uncertainty that was created over the course of four days, created the horrible consequence of 10,000 troops going to the northern border of mexico. I hope the president threatens tariffs again and maybe sends 5000 troops to the southern border of mexico so those people in columbia cannot make that dangerous trip. Canada.
▶ 2:42:24Sen. Tillis: If canada had paid its fair share to nato, I am the republican leader of the senate nato observing group. I have been since 2018. If canada had paid their fair share to nato, we would have one third of $1 trillion in modernization and readiness does -- that does not exist because they are a laggard.
▶ 2:42:52Sen. Tillis: Putting them on notice is necessary they are acting like petulant children because they are north of the U.S. border, the most powerful nation on earth and they are taking us for granted. I think you will find very specific examples of where they have done that on trade and that is where we need to tailor our agreement.
▶ 2:43:11Sen. Tillis: South korea, you have articulately and have identified the threat there and the way that they are trying to counter unfairly big and hitec in general businesses and some in their own country. Silent on china. At the end of the day we know in north carolina if we get into a broad-based trade war, we will get damaged in north carolina.
▶ 2:43:39Sen. Tillis: They will close off access to their markets for pork and chicken, etc. But we have to hold them accountable. I have seen counterfeit goods that have killed people coming from china. They are stealing our intellectual property, they are stealing our ideas, they are making it cheaper. They are admitting instances that are less safe.
▶ 2:44:06Sen. Tillis: Everyone has this false narrative that we are just going to do blunt force tariffs across the board. It is illogical. If we did that, we will have to discount the net revenue because it has to be net or retaliation. But I have confidence in you Mr. greer, to provide the advice to the president to get this right.
▶ 2:44:28Sen. Tillis: It is time for europe, it is time for canada, it is time for china, it is time for the countries of south america to understand where we have been treated unfairly, we no longer will and I look forward to supporting your nomination. Kids, your dad has done a good job.
▶ 2:44:45Mr. Greer: Thank you very much, senator for all of that and for the kindness to my children.
▶ 2:44:50Chair Wyden: Senator marshall.
▶ 2:44:53Sen. Marshall: Thank you Mr. chairman. I guess I am it today. Both sides of this diocese share many of the same goals. I hold them say they want an aggressive trade agenda to open up more free markets. That's exciting to hear. I assume they also want them to have fair and reciprocal trade agreements as well. We are assuming that we share the same goal. Under president trump he gave us usmca.
▶ 2:45:23Sen. Marshall: He gave us south korea. It improved the japanese trade agreement that is so important to america in china phase one. What trade agreements were accomplished under joe biden?
▶ 2:45:33Mr. Greer: I am not aware of any. >> want to compare and contrast a little more. Let's talk about mexico. It is one of the simpler ones to understand. Thanks to president trump's usmca trade agreement mexico and canada supplanted many of our materials as well.
▶ 2:45:59Mr. Greer: Under joe biden, mexico undermined american farms, he believed U.S. companies, he shut down the gmo corn exports are forcing a huge dispute. Mexico hampered U.S. energy production under joe biden and mexico seized a U.S. mining company's operation near cozumel. What can you do, what can we do to reverse this behavior?
▶ 2:46:21Mr. Greer: Before I answer I have to point out that I have one child who was born in kansas.
▶ 2:46:27Sen. Marshall: That is great to hear. Maybe it had something to do with your time in the air force.
▶ 2:46:33Mr. Greer: That's exactly right.
▶ 2:46:34Sen. Marshall: You are an honorary kansan. You can wear your chief jersey. Which one is it?
▶ 2:46:42Mr. Greer: I have a wichita state shockers t-shirt that I wear occasionally. With respect to your question, any trade agreement is only as valuable as the enforcement behind it. With all the issues that you talk about with mexico, many to enforce that. There is a case that was dumb on the corn issue. I will enforce that. There were consultations on energy. We will bring that up with mexico as well.
▶ 2:47:13Mr. Greer: If we want good ongoing trade relations, we have to hold them accountable.
▶ 2:47:18Sen. Marshall: Let's talk about biofuels. I had never seen such an uneven playing field. The U.S. is subject to 18% tariffs going into brazil with biofuels yet brazil enjoys a virtually free access to the U.S. and in many cases, thanks to some scientific voodoo, they are giving brazil a preference over american biofuels as well. The eu continues to be protectionist against U.S. ethanol.
▶ 2:47:48Sen. Marshall: Chinese used cooking oil exports. You are familiar with how they are abusing that. You would think that if we are going to give tax credit, we would make sure they will not benefit foreign entities especially those who wish to harm us. What can you do to help the biofuels industry to level that playing field?
▶ 2:48:08Mr. Greer: The specific kind of unfairness that drives me crazy and it is not just me, but the president himself, he sees these kind of unfairnesses. It is so blatant and it has gone on for so long. You can go to the brazilians and say you need to fix this, but it has to be followed up with or else.
▶ 2:48:34Mr. Greer: That is a little crude but we need to have leverage and if we need to gain leverage by taking other actions, we will do that. We will do whatever we need to to fix the situation.
▶ 2:48:45Sen. Marshall: Let's talk about china. There are so many more things than trade barriers and tariff barriers. There are many non-tariff barriers. They are blocking important food additives. They have committed to substantial ethanol purchase but never follow through.
▶ 2:49:13Sen. Marshall: In contrast to the biden administration, how can we build on president trump's success under phase one with china?
▶ 2:49:17Mr. Greer: We need to start by reviewing it and actually assessing whether or not the chinese have complied with it or to what degree. The president has already directed the office of the U.S. chair to do this. There is an announcement on the website that says they are in training doing this. In the first instance you have to have a very clear assessment because we do not just want to pound her face and hammer it. -- pound are faced and hammer it .
▶ 2:49:45Mr. Greer: From there, you move to settlement. This is an area where companies will understand and change. They understand that president trump is serious about this.
▶ 2:49:57Sen. Marshall: As you all know, we have an almost $1 trillion trade deficit in this country. As well as national security issues. I appreciate president trump, this drug war we are having with mexico and china and canada over the fentanyl precursors especially. I appreciate him prioritizing the security of our families and if he has to use tariffs, I understand.
▶ 2:50:26Sen. Marshall: I believe these tariffs will bring jobs back to america as well. That is another way that we can use this. One thing I would dispute and we would disagree with this with my friends across the aisle when they say that american consumers will pay for these tariffs. Under president trump he used tariffs but we saw minimal inflation. At the end of the day, those tariffs were not passed on in the big picture. I am sure you can find isolationists that can do that.
▶ 2:50:55Sen. Marshall: The big picture is those tariffs were used properly and we were able to not pass that on to american consumers. Is there a way to do that going forward and effectively use these tariffs as a weapon?
▶ 2:51:09Mr. Greer: I agree 100% with that. What we have learned from the first term is that president trump and his economic team is very good at managing the economy. We saw real median household income go up by $7,000 before the pandemic. This was at the time we were imposing tariffs in a way that we had not done in many years. When we look at the inflation of the biden administration that happened in 2022, it was not about tariffs. It was about healthcare and housing and food, things we do not import from china.
▶ 2:51:41Mr. Greer: We know that we can manage this. We know we have a strong economic team. If confirmed, I expect to be able to take strong action while helping ensure that the economy is growing for average americans.
▶ 2:51:50Sen. Marshall: Thank you.
▶ 2:51:53Chair Wyden: Senator scott.
▶ 2:51:58Sen. Scott: Welcome to the committee. I am a little concerned. I feel like I heard the exchange between you and Mr. marshall was somehow Mr. marshall providing some incentive to, what was the word I was looking for? Brainwash a young girl about being a kansas city chiefs fan. I know that you are supporting the eagles, is that what I understand? I thought that was an eagles jersey that you have on.
▶ 2:52:31Sen. Scott: I just wanted to make sure that you realize that the carolina gamecocks is also a very good school, a fine school for kids to follow. We have an air force base. I know you are no longer in the air force. Just realize that kansas is a fine state. We like kansas. We hold that all things go well later on this week. In the end, I would be remiss if I did not mention the carolina gamecocks and the many kids who need to be educated in the near future.
▶ 2:52:58Mr. Greer: I will be happy to work on you -- work with you on collegiate allegiances.
▶ 2:53:04Sen. Scott: Thank you. The expanding market access is important to our strength. 95% of our customers are outside of our nation. We represent 5% of the world population. South carolina we have $36.4 billion of manufactured goods and products that leave our state, supporting 112 thousand jobs.
▶ 2:53:32Sen. Scott: Our agricultural goods, one point $2 billion. Access to the world's is incredibly important. They create good paying jobs in south carolina. They create great paying jobs across this country as we took the aggregate value of those goods and services in other states. How do you plan to secure this market access with other countries in the first 100 days?
▶ 2:53:54Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator. When I look at some of our largest trading partners, they are our largest trading partners because we import so much from them. Someone like vietnam where they have reached their historic deficit trade goods with us, 100 billion dollars. We have a lot of trading partners that enjoy very substantial trade access in the united states and we do not have reciprocal access going the other way. To me this is a huge problem.
▶ 2:54:25Mr. Greer: It is a problem for workers. It is a problem for exporters and manufacturers in places like south carolina and elsewhere. In short order we will be approaching these countries to assess their unfair trade practices and why it is that they are able to have and maintain these huge trade imbalances with us over many years. That doesn't make sense when we have so many products. We are competitive. We should be able to ship overseas. I have mentioned this before.
▶ 2:54:53Mr. Greer: I expect the trump administration will have competitive energy policy, tax policy, regulatory policy, permitting policies that will only help us be more competitive. I need to be able to go to these countries and explain to them that if they want to enjoy continued market access to the united states, we need to have better reciprocity.
▶ 2:55:11Sen. Scott: It seems to me that the president said the tariffs approach has to do with punishment. The other has to do with rightsizing our approach to the global economy and both seem to have the american consumer in mind in our national security in mind as well. The more efforts we see from the president in this direction, it seems like his ability to recalibrate the global system and to make it more responsive to americans net positive long-term.
▶ 2:55:41Mr. Greer: I agree with you. I could not put it better myself. That is the way we need to do this. This is the time to restructure the global trading system to better serve american workers and businesses.
▶ 2:55:51Sen. Scott: It seems to me that there are countries like china. I am not sure that is the politically right way to say this but they lie, they cheat, they steal. With the wto, they still have the most favored nation status. What should we do about that and how do we re-examine that and try to figure out a right sized relationship to that as well?
▶ 2:56:19Mr. Greer: That is really important. Granting china permanent normal trade relations is one major cause of why we are in the situation we are in now. I think it is important for congress and the administration to work together about how that looks going forward. It is something that the president put in his trade policy memorandum. He said consider the legislative options related to normative trade relations. There are a lot of ways to go about it.
▶ 2:56:49Mr. Greer: You want to make sure the economy is doing well and we have growth but we want to make sure that we are not dependent on china for strategic goods, that our farmers are not so dependent that they can be victims of economic coercion. I would love to have a conversation with you about that.
▶ 2:57:02Sen. Scott: My last comment does not necessarily need a response. But from my perspective our first weapon for national security should be an economic weapon, a non-kinetic option. To the extent that we deploy that weapon in the most effective way possible to keep more americans safe, keep our soldiers at home and frankly, I think it recalibrates and repositions america as a city on a hill.
▶ 2:57:32Sen. Scott: I hope that we engage in those effective uses of the economic weapon that we possibly can.
▶ 2:57:40Mr. Greer: I agree with that. Thank you.
▶ 2:57:42Chair Wyden: Senator barrasso.
▶ 2:57:46Sen. Barrasso: Thank you for visiting me in my office. You will be the tip of the spear in advancing the probe worker -- pro worker and progrowth agenda. You will be opening up new markets for our nation producers and farmers and ranchers. You will be protecting america's interest and fighting back against abusive trade practices from foreign adversaries that undermine U.S. industries and our critical supply chains.
▶ 2:58:15Sen. Barrasso: We have a big task in front of you as we discussed. We are all counting on you. Given your experience serving president trump as chief of staff during his first term, you are equipped to lead the charge on behalf of the nation's trade agenda. In regard to market access, I know we all talk a lot about market access today. We also talk about market access when we met in my office.
▶ 2:58:45Sen. Barrasso: I mentioned the importance of opening up new opportunities from the industries from my state of wyoming. We talked about opening up markets in japan for U.S. beef. That was a big win for him wyoming ranchers. Wyoming is an energy powerhouse and the energy breadbasket. Wyoming plays a major part in the world providing abundant affordable energy to our allies around the world. We also have huge mineral deposits in wyoming.
▶ 2:59:12Sen. Barrasso: A mineral called trona, a basic chemical building block manufacturing lots of products including glass, pharmaceuticals , oil, natural gas. Wyoming's economy, the U.S. economy will greatly benefit as we export resources to new markets. As U.S.
▶ 2:59:38Sen. Barrasso: Trade, what kind of emphasis are you going to place on opening up new markets for U.S. exporters and for wyoming producers?
▶ 2:59:46Mr. Greer: Thank you for that. I agree with you on the mineral wealth and other wealth that wyoming has to share with the country and the rest of the world. I expect that going forward we want to be in a position where our economy is very strong. I don't think about trade policy as an end in itself. I think it is something that will result in higher wages and higher incomes for americans and their families. That means a lot of things.
▶ 3:00:14Mr. Greer: It means we need to make more here and export more as well. As everyone knows I have concerns about the trade deficit. I think it is unsustainable and harmful. There are some ways to get at it. One is by ensuring that they are unfair trade practices with imports but another important way is by making sure that we have other markets we can export our goods and services.
▶ 3:00:33Sen. Scott: Can you add to that in terms of how you would do it differently? I felt the biden administration was way short in opening access to markets.
▶ 3:00:45Mr. Greer: It is of critical importance at a very early stage and I hope the office of the U.S. chair has already started this. It is very important to figure out exactly what we want from these other countries. Sometimes I hear people say let's do a deal and I say, what is the deal that you want?
▶ 3:01:07Mr. Greer: The more specificity that I can obtain from our industries and our workers about what kind of market access we need and where , that will make my job easier to be able to go to these countries that have enjoyed market access in the united states for a long time but have maintained high tariff and nontariff barriers and say this is what we need and what we expect. If you want to continue to have good relations economically with the U.S., we will expect access. It's not about muscling people or being a bully.
▶ 3:01:35Mr. Greer: It is about having fair and reciprocal aspects -- access.
▶ 3:01:43Sen. Barrasso: Some actors have repeatedly violated the U.S. mexico agreement. They were in violation of the usmca with respect to U.S. corn. Mexico has taken hostile actions toward seizing assets of U.S. companies. One issue I have waited on has been mexico's hostility toward U.S. energy companies. Mexico's previous president discriminated against U.S.
▶ 3:02:13Sen. Barrasso: Energy producers, favoring his state owned utilities and oil and gas companies. The biden administration fell short of fully protecting U.S. energy producers. Biden's U.S. trade failed to minutes late make any meaningful progress. Jeopardized lots of money in U.S. investment. I would like to enter into the record a bicameral letter that I read on the need to address this matter.
▶ 3:02:38Chair Wyden: Without objection.
▶ 3:02:40Sen. Barrasso: Going forward under the trump administration and with mexico's new president who is now in office, how important will it be for the U.S. trade to help protect U.S. energy companies and their investments?
▶ 3:02:53Mr. Greer: I share all of the concerns that you just laid out. American energy companies are the cleanest companies. Our labor practices are good. Our governments practices are excellent. That is why our energy company is a partner of choice all over the world.
▶ 3:03:14Mr. Greer: I will expect at a very early stage to be able to look at where the mexicans have been discriminatory against us for taking unfair action or favored their state owned industries over hours, where they have violated the usmca and to move forward. If it requires consultations, we will do that. If it inquires -- requires enforcement, we will do that.
▶ 3:03:34Chair Wyden: We are getting close. Senator wyden has another question. >> you will be liberated soon. My question to you and I will get into one quick area and make a short closing statement. It deals with forced labor.
▶ 3:03:59Chair Wyden: Forced labor and doing everything we can to block it is the morally right thing to do but it is also enormously important to american businesses and american workers. In fact, on a bipartisan basis we thought that was so important. Ustr sits on the primary enforcement committee. It is called the U.S. forced labor enforcement committee.
▶ 3:04:25Chair Wyden: I would like to know how you think we are going to be able to wage this fight because usaid and the foreign players are having their roles reversed under what we have been talking about here in the last couple of weeks.
▶ 3:04:42Chair Wyden: I would like for your thoughts on what is going to be done to have an aggressive effort against forced labor which I think is an important effort in the united states for the reasons I just mentioned.
▶ 3:04:57Mr. Greer: I agree with you on the forced labor issue morally and economically. U.S. customs is tasked with enforcement and I know they have been escalating that in recent years. I assume that direction is going to continue. It is not my agency but it is an area where I am very concerned. I think I have equities there.
▶ 3:05:20Chair Wyden: Why don't you get back to me in writing on this because you all have enforcement role. That is why I mentioned your organization. If you tell me it is somebody else, that concerns me because I want to know how we will be able to push at least as hard as we do today rather than go backward on forced labor. Here is last thought.
▶ 3:05:40Chair Wyden: I still have not heard from you over the course of the close to three hours despite my repeated requests a single good economic argument for the sweeping universal tariffs. In fact, some of my colleagues who have not really had a chance to get into this over the years said, that is what we did under trump one.
▶ 3:06:10Chair Wyden: That is not what we did under trump one. In fact, donald trump said he wanted to go beyond what was done in his first term with these universal tariffs. I want to leave you with this. I feel so strongly about trade being done right. I want to continue to discuss these issues with you.
▶ 3:06:32Chair Wyden: I am not convinced we are there yet because this is particularly critical to our competitiveness, to inflation, to what it will mean for working people and small businesses. I consider this absolutely a prerequisite to doing trade right and we have not gotten a sufficient answer on the question of our time which was the big change in policy from trump one to trump two.
▶ 3:07:07Chair Wyden: As my colleague suggested, they are not the same thing. This has much more extensive consequences. I will close by saying I was supportive of the targeted tariff approach in trump one. You might have been in my office with bob lighthizer when we talked about because we would go in and lays it an approach that would ensure that we get the upside of a tariff without the anti-consumer downside.
▶ 3:07:34Chair Wyden: I want to invite you to continue to work with me and my office to see if we can get through this and come to an agreement in terms of how it is going to be pursued at your office because I think this is central. I remember working with you in the past on a number of questions this morning. Your views and mine coincide. But on this question of what will happen with a big universal tariff, this is brand-new ground.
▶ 3:08:03Chair Wyden: I don't think it exists in history. It was not part of trump one but it has the potential to do damage to the american people and the economy. You don't want that. I don't want that. Let's continue to talk about it. >> thank you, senator. Mr. greer, thank you for appearing. You have been here nearly three hours now. You have responded as you have in previous meetings with members of the committee. To their questions very well.
▶ 3:08:32Chair Wyden: I think you have done a phenomenally good job. You have shown that you are completely capable and qualified for this job. I look forward to working with you and making sure that we get your nomination firmed as soon as possible. With that, I would like to remind my colleagues that the deadline for submitting any questions for the record is 5:00 p.m. Today. And the finance committee will stand adjourned.