▶ 0:16:35Chair Ernst: Good morning, everyone. I called the committee on small business and entrepreneurship to order, and I want to thank our members for their cooperation and patience as we meet today to complete the committee's consideration of legislation we initiated last week as well as an additional bill related to disaster assistance.
▶ 0:16:59Chair Ernst: Ranking member markey and I met yesterday and discussed our shared desire to continue moving bipartisan legislation whenever we can. We started that process last week when we advanced and important bipartisan effort that my friend senator rosen and I worked on for years to expand access to childcare, and today, we will be considering another bipartisan bill, this one led by senators scott and schiff, to
▶ 0:17:32Chair Ernst: Increase transparency in the disaster account. I appreciate ranking member markey's communication with me and look forward to our continued dialogue. If we are going to reform the sba and ensure our tax dollars are supporting small businesses in our states, which is my top priority as chair, we will have tough debates and different perspectives on how to best do that.
▶ 0:17:57Chair Ernst: I will not shy away from doing that hard work, even if it means we must take votes on issues where we disagree. In order to best serve our members as we work through that process, I will give you all as much information as possible about what you will be voting on and in what order so that we can have orderly and productive markups, so you will find in front of you today there is a listing of amendments that will be considered and the bills that will be considered.
▶ 0:18:29Chair Ernst: I commit to being transparent about what order we will vote on bills and how I will manage proceedings, and I asked ranking member markey to meet that transparency by communicating about which amendments the minority plans to offer and in what order. If the minority chooses to offer amendments after the amendment on bills they plan to oppose anyway, then as chair, I have the right to cut off consideration of amendments.
▶ 0:18:56Chair Ernst: I hope it will not come to that, and it is my sincere desire we can continue to work together, even when we disagree good with that, let's jump right into the business before us today. First of all, I ask unanimous consent that the chair be authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's meeting. Without objection, so ordered.
▶ 0:19:19Chair Ernst: I ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for two weeks for any member wishing to insert a statement into the record or revise or extend their remarks. Without objection, so ordered. I ask unanimous consent to postpone votes on any question of approving any measures or matter or adopting any amendment under which a rollcall is requested.
▶ 0:19:44Chair Ernst: Without objection, so ordered today, the committee is meeting to consider and vote on three pieces of legislation and the committee's rules. I want to take a moment to highlight a few things about each bill we are considering today. First, we will consider s298, which relocates and reallocate the sba's workforce to locations outside of the D.C.
▶ 0:20:11Chair Ernst: Metro area, reduces telework, and redistributes sba resources throughout america. I am proud to lead this bill along with my colleagues senators blackburn and scott. Next, s300, which aims to prevent an sba disaster shortfall from occurring ever again by heightening accountability, transparency, and reporting measures and sba.
▶ 0:20:43Chair Ernst: Last year, sba's disaster loan account had a completely unacceptable 66 day shortfall, which prevented disaster victims across the country from receiving assistance when they needed it most. I want to thank senator budd for introducing this legislation, which I am proud to cosponsor along with our colleagues come a senator scott of south carolina and senator tillis. I also want to thank ranking member markey for working with republicans to create a bipartisan compromise amendment.
▶ 0:21:15Chair Ernst: I am proud of our work to come together to ensure sba is best positioned to aid disaster victims nationwide. Additionally, s371, the sba disaster transparency act, complements s300 and aims to bring for the to sba's disaster operations.
▶ 0:21:36Chair Ernst: I want to thank senator scott of south carolina for introducing this legislation along with our colleagues, senators budd, blackburn, scott of florida, and schiff. Lastly, we have the committee's rules to adopt. I now recognize the ranking member for an opening statement.
▶ 0:21:57Sen. Markey: Thank you, madam chair, very much. And thank you for holding this very important markup today. And I am glad as opposed to last week our members will be able to make their amendments to offer and debate those amendments, and I think that is a much better process and one conducive to
▶ 0:22:27Sen. Markey: Having a committee which does work on a bipartisan basis to traduce legislation for our country. But I am deeply disappointed that the committee is breaking the long-standing bipartisan tradition of calling an equal number of private witnesses for committee hearings.
▶ 0:22:49Sen. Markey: Since 2001, save for one congress, an equal number of witnesses has been afforded to the minority to ensure fair and constructive hearings, and that was through chair risch and chair rubio and chair cotton and chair shaheen.
▶ 0:23:08Sen. Markey: So it is in my perspective very unfortunate to break with the tradition which helped build a spirit of cooperation and bipartisanship on this committee because with an equal number of witnesses, it ensures the committee hearings are fair and most constructive cost of the proposed rule change will limit opportunities for small business owners to discuss the challenges which they face.
▶ 0:23:40Sen. Markey: The senate created this committee to help all small businesses compete with larger firms regardless of living in a blue state or a red state. The committee has been an oasis of bipartisanship in the senate, and I just cautioned my colleagues that we will find years of goodwill can be undone within a day. We have to work to maintain this oasis of the small business committee, and my hope is all members will be committed to achieving that goal.
▶ 0:24:11Sen. Markey: And I hope my republican colleagues change course, return to the committee's bipartisan tradition of witnesses. Turning to today's legislative agenda, I thank senator ernst for removing senator budd's disaster loan accountability and reform act from last week's markup.
▶ 0:24:31Sen. Markey: This allowed us to come together in a bipartisan agreement that maintains benefits for disaster survivors as they rebuild their lives and helps ensure we do not face another funding shortfall. I appreciate the meetings with you, madam chair, so that we could work on the disaster relief bill in a way that can be presented to the committee today as a bipartisan product.
▶ 0:24:58Sen. Markey: And I'm also pleased that we will be mucking up senators scott and schiff's bill, directing sba to publish its reports on the disaster loan program on their website. Together, these two bills increase transparency and hold sba accountable to the american public. Finally, we are considering a partisan bill that displaces sba employees under the guise of improving customer service for small business owners.
▶ 0:25:29Sen. Markey: Democrats and republicans alike agree that sba must have a strong presence in local communities, meeting small businesses where they are. However, instead of advancing commonsense proposals such as senator shaheen's proposal to increase field staff, we are considering a bill that trend -- that tramples over legally binding agreements and forces things without any evidence that will help the
▶ 0:26:00Sen. Markey: Agency serve small business owners, so we are also considering this bill in the aftermath of doge's unjustified and sudden firing of sba probationary employees, including those in the disaster and field offices. The ramifications of this action if permanent will be felt by all small business owners.
▶ 0:26:24Sen. Markey: This is undetectable, and it is a disservice to the american people, especially with the disasters we see on our screens every single day. As a result, my colleagues and I have drafted amendments that we intend to offer to improve this legislation, and I hope we can have a productive discussion today and in time return the senate small business committee to the bastion that it has always been, so with that, I
▶ 0:26:54Sen. Markey: Yield back, bottom chair -- madam chair.
▶ 0:26:57Chair Ernst: Thank you very much. Senator shaheen.
▶ 0:27:02Sen. Shaheen: First of all, let me thank you and senator markey for working together to find agreement on the two bills, two of the bills we will be addressing today, but I did not understand when you were talking about how the meeting was going to run what you meant about being able to not call up amendments even though they have been filed and meaning to cut off debate.
▶ 0:27:28Chair Ernst: We have a list of amendments that the minority has presented to us, and we have agreed that these are the ones that will be voted on between the minority and the majority, so as we move through these amendments, if a member decides they want to come up with additional amendments that have not been agreed to by the minority and the majority, we will move on.
▶ 0:27:56Chair Ernst: And to further clarify, we have a listing of the amendments that was pointed out last time. We did not know what exact amendments were going to be offered, so we are trying to be more effective and efficient in that the democrats, the republicans, we will have an agreed listing, and it should be at every members place on the dais when we come to the meetings so we can move through much quicker and everybody will know what we are voting on yes,
▶ 0:28:27Chair Ernst: Thank -- on. Yes, thank you.
▶ 0:28:31Sen. Shaheen: Are we just talking about today's markup?
▶ 0:28:34Chair Ernst: Today's markup but as we move forward as well I will be able to work between the democrats and republicans. >> I would assume there are probably rules, right? Timelines and deadlines for that. And then there are on occasion opportunities where members find magic right here in this committee room and offer something that then gets submitted for agreement. You would include those, right? You would consider those?
▶ 0:29:07Chair Ernst: I am all for members and figuring out a way to work together. I have been on many committees where lots of amendments where the majority and minority can agree but also preserve the members's rights. Oftentimes they want to be heard and will withdraw their vote.
▶ 0:29:28Chair Ernst: It seems like progress, but your comment that you would reserve the right to cut off amendments, I don't know any committee that -- you can take a vote in committee and move forward.
▶ 0:29:44Chair Ernst: Thank you for that. I do reserve that right, and we hope we are never in that position to do that. We should have most everything worked out ahead of time, and believe me, if it is fruitful debate, I am not going to cut off fruitful debate. Thank you. We will move to the next item of business.
▶ 0:30:06Chair Ernst: It is s298, the returning to sba main street -- the returning sba to main street act. We have senator paul here now and then we'll move to the marquis amendment. We will start with number one. Paul amendment number one. Senator paul, you are recognized for your amendment.
▶ 0:30:28Sen. Paul: This amendment's input directs the small business administrator to only relocate employees if the location determines doing so will reduce federal government's costs.
▶ 0:30:43Chair Ernst: Ok. Thank you, senator paul. I support this amendment, which clarifies the sba will only move forward with plans required in this bill if that saves the taxpayers money. Is there any further debate on this amendment? >> madam chair.
▶ 0:31:02Chair Ernst: Yes. Yes, you are recognized.
▶ 0:31:06Sen. Markey: The bill has been put forth by the committee. Is that correct?
▶ 0:31:11Chair Ernst: That is correct.
▶ 0:31:12Sen. Markey: Thank you. I agree that there should be an evaluation of its cost before it goes forward and its impact on the dedicated public servants, but the bill includes arbitrary targets. For example, there is no analysis to justify why 30% of sba staff should be moved out of D.C. there is no direction as to what types of employees should be prioritized in what location.
▶ 0:31:42Sen. Markey: There is no plan for how or where employees should be relocated. In the list goes on and on. However, given that president trump illegally fired the inspector general, and analysis must be done by a third party nonpartisan entity, and we need an objective data-driven analysis before considering overhauling an agency critical to small business success, which is why I encourage my colleagues to support the immediately
▶ 0:32:14Sen. Markey: Forthcoming amendment number three, which would mandate the government accountability office perform a cost-benefit analysis on this plan so that we have a detached fair analysis of what the impacts are rather than a decision that is just made arbitrarily, so with that, I urge a new vote of my colleagues. >> can I just make a comment?
▶ 0:32:44Chair Ernst: Yes.
▶ 0:32:45Sen. Paul: I think your amendment substitutes or replaces the whole bill, which I don't think is going to pass, and if you would just add a report to the bill, that would probably pass or has a chance of passing.
▶ 0:32:57Chair Ernst: Thank you. Additional comments? Yes, senator shaheen.
▶ 0:33:03Sen. Shaheen: Food is your commitment to carry out the reports -- who does your amendment recommend to carry out the reports?
▶ 0:33:13Sen. Paul: Mind just wants to affirm saving money. His amendment to the report which is a separate amendment replaces the bill. I am not against his report. I would actually vote for his report added to the bill, not an replacement of the bill.
▶ 0:33:35Sen. Shaheen: Thank you.
▶ 0:33:37Chair Ernst: Thank you. The question is on the paul amendment number one. All those in favor say aye. The aye have its. The gentleman requests a roll call vote. The clerk will call roll. >> Mr. scott. Mr. young. Mr. hawley. Mr. budd.
▶ 0:34:09Chair Ernst: Mr. curtis. Mr. justice. Mr. markey.
▶ 0:34:13Sen. Markey: No. >> Ms. cantwell. Ms. shaheen. Mr. booker. Mr. coons. Ms. hirono. Ms. rosen. Mr. hickenlooper. Mr. schiff. Ms. chair.
▶ 0:34:33Chair Ernst: Aye. The clerk will report the vote. >> on paul amendment one, s298, the yays are 10. The nays are 9. The amendment is agreed to.
▶ 0:34:53Chair Ernst: Next, we will move to the marquis amendment, and this is markey number one. Number three come excuse me. You are recognized, ranking member.
▶ 0:35:06Sen. Markey: Thank you, madam chair. Madam chair, there are real concerns that must be addressed before this bill can be implemented. It includes evaluating the costs to the federal government, not just in terms of dollars it also in its ability to retain and recruit employees. This bill is antiunion and anti-worker.
▶ 0:35:29Sen. Markey: In fact, the american federation of government employees which represents half of the headquarters of employees submitted a letter with concerns about this legislation, stating this bill is harshly punitive towards employees. Democrats and republicans alike understand sba needs to meet small business owners where they are. However, this bill is not the answer. If passed, we will not predict what will happen.
▶ 0:36:00Sen. Markey: When the trump administration moved the bureau of land headquarters, 87% of the dc-based employees did not move. The department struggled to fill those vacancies, and eventually move back to washington, D.C. progress should be strategic, not impulsive and rash.
▶ 0:36:26Sen. Markey: Perform a cost-benefit analysis of this relocation plan and provide any recommendations on how to best implement any transfer because ultimately without careful data-driven consideration, taxpayers and small business owners will bear the burden of this plan, so let us first have all of the information before us before we make such a profound change in the structure of the sba.
▶ 0:36:55Sen. Markey: I urgean ey -- I urge an aye vote for my colleagues.
▶ 0:37:01Chair Ernst: I oppose this amendment which asks the gao for report and recognitions rather than moving the ball forward. The underlying bill assures sba is effectively utilizing its personnel guaranteeing small businesses in all parts of america are able to access sba programs if they need them. Is there further debate? Seeing none, the question is on markey amendment number three. All in favor say aye.
▶ 0:37:32Chair Ernst: All as opposed say nay. The gentleman requests a roll call vote on the amendment. The clerk will call the roll. >> Mr. risch. Dr. paul. Mr. scott. Mr. young. Mr. hawley. Mr. budd. Mr. curtis. Mr. justice. Mr. husted. Mr. markey.
▶ 0:38:02Chair Ernst: Ms. cantwell. Mrs. shaheen. Mr. booker. Mr. coons. Ms. hirono. Ms. rosen. Mr. hickenlooper. Mr. schiff. Ms. chair.
▶ 0:38:17Chair Ernst: No. The clerk will report the boat. >> on markey amendment three to s298, the yays are nine and the nays are 10.
▶ 0:38:34Chair Ernst: We will now proceed to shaheen amendment number one. Senator shaheen, you are recognized.
▶ 0:38:41Sen. Shaheen: Thank you, madam chair. I have been concerned about the effort to consolidate staff into washington for a very long time throughout the biden administration.
▶ 0:38:55Sen. Shaheen: I am sure madame chair you heard me raise concerns about why that was happening and the importance of having district offices that were adequately staffed new hampshire went through a recession in the early 1990's when I was in the state senate there, and we had five of our seven largest banks fail.
▶ 0:39:21Sen. Shaheen: The only thing that kept business afloat in new hampshire was the sba and our sba office, which was available to help businesses survive that recession. So I have had a long-standing belief that the importance of our district offices and making sure they are adequately staffed , so I agree with the concern that we do not want to have all of the staff in washington. Want to make sure our district offices have adequate staff.
▶ 0:39:52Sen. Shaheen: That is what this bill does. It recognizes the value of our district offices and codifies that in this legislation. It also would address concerns about the firing of sba employees who while a letter has gone out reinstating them, our understanding is another letter is going out today to fire them
▶ 0:40:23Sen. Shaheen: Again, which in new hampshire means we will have fewer employees that the office needs to help our small businesses, so that is what this amendment would do. I hope my colleagues will consider it and agree with me that we should ensure our field offices are properly staffed area a.
▶ 0:40:44Chair Ernst: Thank you, senator shaheen. Unfortunately, I have to reject this amendment because it requires a good cause provision before removal of any sba employee. I support the intent to have an sba office in every state in adequate staffing, the underlying bill would allow the administrator to maximize the staff sba currently has by relocating a portion of employees to field offices. Is there any further debate?
▶ 0:41:14Chair Ernst: Seeing none, the question is on -- yes, a roll call has been requested. The clerk will call the roll. >> Mr. risch. Dr. paul. Mr. scott. Mr. young. Mr. hawley. Mr. budd. Mr. curtis. Mr. justice. Mr. husted. Mr. markey. Ms. cantwell. Mrs. shaheen. Mr. booker. Mr. coons.
▶ 0:41:45Chair Ernst: Ms. hirono. Ms. rosen. Mr. hickenlooper. Mr. schiff. Ms. chair.
▶ 0:41:52Chair Ernst: No. The clerk will report the vote. >> on shaheen amendment number one to s98, the yays are 9 and the nays are 10.
▶ 0:42:08Chair Ernst: Thank you. We will now move to markey amendment number one. Ranking member markey, you are recognized.
▶ 0:42:23Sen. Markey: Under the bill as written, nearly all sba employees could be forced to relocate hundreds of thousands of miles away. This bill provides no financial help or assistance for those families by the employees.
▶ 0:42:41Sen. Markey: My amendment would protect all sba employees from having their rights violated by this relocation and keep all recourse options on the table because without this, worker rights would be trampled and decisions could be made for battalion torrey or political reasons without considering harm to the families, so madam chair, I ask that all member's of the committee stand up for families and worker protections. I vote to pass my amendment.
▶ 0:43:10Chair Ernst: Thank you, ranking never markey. This amendment expands exceptions far beyond what is reasonable and limits sba's ability to truly put the right people in the right areas and get sba resources to small businesses on main street across america. Is there any further debate on this markey amendment? Seeing none, the question is -- the gentleman requests a roll call vote. The clerk will call roll.
▶ 0:43:43Chair Ernst: >> Mr. risch. Dr. paul. Mr. scott. Mr. young. Mr. hawley. Mr. budd. Mr. curtis. Mr. justice. Mr. husted. Mr. markey. Ms. cantwell. Mrs. shaheen. Mr. booker. Mr. coons. Ms. hirono. Ms. rosen. Mr. hickenlooper.
▶ 0:44:13Chair Ernst: Mr. hickenlooper. Mr. schiff. Ms. chair.
▶ 0:44:18Chair Ernst: No. The clerk will report the vote. >> the yays are 9 and the nays are 10. The amendment is not agreed to.
▶ 0:44:39Chair Ernst: The next amendment will be ranking member markey's amendment number four, and you are recognized.
▶ 0:44:46Sen. Markey: This is my final amendment to the bill. The bill we are considering is anti-worker, antiunion. It does nothing to protect american small business owners. Doge's unauthorized access to their data. Last week, it was reported the unqualified and unvented staff from doge accessed area from doge accessed a data at the sba.
▶ 0:45:16Sen. Markey: We have small businesses sending in all of their confidential information, and they are looking for help from the government, and to have this group of doge unqualified staff have access to the confidential information is of course very concerning and should be for a small business person. One has to ask what guardrails are in place to protect the employees and millions of small business owners and homeowners who have utilized sba programs.
▶ 0:45:48Sen. Markey: So it is a little bit like letting the fox in the hen house. Let me be clear these foxes are not good foxes. They are unvented. There is no standard to allow these people to gain access to the most private information a small business could have and the petition they are making to the government.
▶ 0:46:12Sen. Markey: One of musk's minions at sba was fired from his previous employer for leaking proprietary information. He was fired for leaking proprietary information. In fact, a former fbi agent is quoted as saying if he was doing the background investigation, he would not have cleared this doge employee on the work he is doing.
▶ 0:46:38Sen. Markey: We just can't allow for these unvented doge appointees to come into an agency which has the trust of millions of small businesses across the country. These records are the most intimate profile of that person's family. You know? That they tried to use to get a loan from the sba. I just think it is wrong.
▶ 0:47:09Sen. Markey: So the amendment would prohibit these doge staffers from accessing the american people's private data and will also protect sba employees from a television but not from any unlawful doge orders. -- not from any unlawful doge orders. This amendment says that the doge employees should not have access.
▶ 0:47:39Chair Ernst: I opposed this amendment as it prohibits certain federal employees outside of sba from accessing sba's internal systems. This is contradictory to the role certain agencies play in the executive branch such as the office of management and budget and limits transparency and accountability. Is there further debate? Yes, you are recognized, senator shaheen.
▶ 0:48:03Sen. Shaheen: I have a question for whoever can answer it. That is, what is the reason that doge is given for needing access to those records of small businesses that sba controls?
▶ 0:48:18Chair Ernst: I don't have that information in front of me.
▶ 0:48:28Sen. Markey: I think obviously these doge operatives are working under the cover of darkness and as a result, we have no idea what the authorization is, what they are doing. All we are trying to provide is protection against just a breaking and entering into all of that private financial data of small business men and women by the millions across the country. That is all we are really trying to do. We don't know what the authorization is.
▶ 0:48:59Sen. Markey: We don't know what the standards are. God help us if anyone was allowed to come into our private lives or anyone else's private lives with an illegal justification for doing so.
▶ 0:49:08Sen. Shaheen: Is there any requirement that they are not allowed to change those records if they access them?
▶ 0:49:14Chair Ernst: Senator, what I understood from the other agencies is they are allowed read-only access.
▶ 0:49:21Sen. Shaheen: But isn't it true that the treasury department admitted that the people who access treasury records did in fact make changes and had the access to make those changes?
▶ 0:49:33Chair Ernst: I don't know that to be true.
▶ 0:49:35Sen. Shaheen: That was part of a legal lawsuit.
▶ 0:49:37Chair Ernst: We would need a brief on that. We don't have that information presented to the committee today.
▶ 0:49:43Sen. Shaheen: Can the committee request a briefing from doge on what they are doing at sba and why they need to access business records?
▶ 0:49:50Chair Ernst: We could request a briefing.
▶ 0:49:52Sen. Shaheen: Can you do that?
▶ 0:49:54Chair Ernst: I will work with senator markey on that.
▶ 0:49:58Sen. Shaheen: Thank you.
▶ 0:49:59Chair Ernst: The question is on markey amendment number four. Those in favor of the amendment, aye. Those opposed to the amendment.
▶ 0:50:13Sen. Markey: Can we have a roll call?
▶ 0:50:15Chair Ernst: The gentleman requests a roll call. The clerk will call roll. >> Mr. risch. Dr. paul. Mr. scott. Mr. young. Mr. hawley. Mr. budd. Mr. curtis. Mr. justice. Mr. husted. Mr. markey. Ms. cantwell. Mrs. shaheen. Mr. booker. Mr. coons. Ms. hirono. Ms. rosen.
▶ 0:50:46Chair Ernst: Mr. hickenlooper. Mr. schiff. Ms. chair.
▶ 0:50:52Chair Ernst: No. Ok, the clerk will report the vote. >> the yays are 9, and the nays are 10. The amendment is not agreed to.
▶ 0:51:12Chair Ernst: Pursuant to our earlier unanimous consent for the proceedings on the measure are postponed come and we will now move to our next item of consideration, so we will move on to amendments to s300, disaster loan ability, and the reform act, and we had two amendments filed by the ranking member since that time. We have come to a bipartisan agreement.
▶ 0:51:40Chair Ernst: So I have an amendment and the nature of the substitute to s300. I ask unanimous consent it be considered as read. Without objection, so ordered. Again, this is a bipartisan complete substitute to s300 and I urge all members to support this amendment. Is there further debate on this amendment?
▶ 0:52:02Sen. Markey: Madam chair.
▶ 0:52:03Chair Ernst: You are recognized.
▶ 0:52:05Sen. Markey: I am pleased we were successful in reaching a bipartisan agreement on the bill and I appreciate working with the chair on this important legislation. As this bill demonstrates the small business committee can be an oasis of compromise and bipartisanship when we work together. Through our negotiations, we were able to remove provisions.
▶ 0:52:34Sen. Markey: The bill is amended instead gives sba the flexibility to conserve funding when disaster accounts run low and ensures all disaster survivors can get the help which they need. As amended, this bill increases transparency through traditional reporting requirements so congress is better prepared to address a funding shortfall should it ever happen again. We all hope and expect that will not happen, but I agree with my republican colleagues, we must be prepared.
▶ 0:53:06Sen. Markey: I am pleased and all democrats are pleased to be able to work together on this important legislation for disaster survivors and ensure they get the benefits they deserve.
▶ 0:53:14Chair Ernst: Thank you, ranking member. Yes, senator schiff, you are recognized.
▶ 0:53:19Sen. Schiff: Thank you, madam chair. I want to thank you and ranking member markey and senator budd to work with us on this bill. Senator budd, just wanted to express my condolences to your constituents after they endured so much in the storms that hit your state last year. As someone from a state also working through a painful disaster recovery, I know we both want the federal government to be there.
▶ 0:53:50Sen. Schiff: When everything they have is destroyed in the blink of an eye, I share your alarm that sba was forced to shut off disaster lending because it took so long to notify congress of its funding needs in the cast. This was a failure of communication that should have never happened. I am pleased to join senator scott in introducing the sba disaster transparency act and also support the transparency echoed ability provisions in senator budd's.
▶ 0:54:22Sen. Schiff: I am happy to support the bill and glad staff from both sides of the aisle were able to come to an agreement on perfecting the language to ensure transparency measures don't come on the cost of those relying on the programs for a lifeline in the wake of disasters. Transparency and timely notifications are critical in ensuring our disaster accounts are funded appropriately, and I agree it is an acceptable the funding lapsed in the past because sba failed to notify congress in a timely manner. Changes must be made to prevent this from happening again.
▶ 0:54:54Sen. Schiff: Congress has repeatedly shown that when given proper notice of sba's balances, it provides funding in a bipartisan matter to help disaster survivors rebuild. After seeing so many tragic and increasingly expensive disasters strike states represented on our committee, we need to be moving sba forward, enhancing its abilities after a disaster and not moving disaster assistance in the opposite direction. Once again, grateful for your work on this bill.
▶ 0:55:23Sen. Schiff: Senator budd, thank you for your leadership on this, and also I want to acknowledge as I may be out of the room when we take up the next bill senator scott's leadership on the sba disaster transparency act, which I am proud to work with him on. And I yield back, madam chair.
▶ 0:55:41Chair Ernst: Thank you very much, senator schiff. Again, appreciate the bipartisan work on this bill. So we will go ahead if there is no additional debate on the amendment. All in favor say aye. Those opposed say nay. The ayes have it, and the amendment is agreed to. Pursuant to our earlier unanimous consent, further proceedings on the measure are postponed.
▶ 0:56:11Chair Ernst: We will now move to our next item of consideration. This will be on s371, the sba disaster transparency act. No amendments were prefiled commit and I move to favorably report s371. The bipartisan bill. This is by senator scott of south carolina, senator schiff, butd, blackburn -- budd, blackburn, and scott.
▶ 0:56:39Chair Ernst: Ranking member, did you have any remarks?
▶ 0:56:41Sen. Markey: Thank you, madam chair. Just like the disaster loan accountability and reform act, this bill aims to address the 2020 for disaster funding shortfalls. This shortfall was avoidable. We must have increased transparency to prevent this from happening again. Senator schiff and scott's bill is common sense legislation that orders the sba to publish its reporting on the disaster loan program on sba's website.
▶ 0:57:12Sen. Markey: I support this legislation, and I urge unanimous adoption.
▶ 0:57:17Chair Ernst: Thank you, ranking member. I am move to favorably report s371. All in favor, say aye. All those opposed, say nay. The ayes have it and it is the ruling of the chair that s371 with a quorum being present is reported favorably by the committee. Ok. Next, we will move on to committee rules.
▶ 0:57:46Chair Ernst: We had one amendment file to this measure, markey amendment one. You are recognized.
▶ 0:57:55Sen. Markey: Thank you. This is the last but a fundamental piece of legislation that we have to consider. During last week's markup, members raised concerns about a partisan version of the committee. Despite this, the chair would still like to proceed in breaking long-standing bipartisan committee rules.
▶ 0:58:19Sen. Markey: The proposed rules would limit my ability as ranking over to call an equal number of witnesses for committee hearings. I would committee rules have served us well for almost the entirety of the 21st century, other than a single congress a decade ago.
▶ 0:58:38Sen. Markey: Again, as I said earlier, through chairman rubio, chairman risch, all the way back to the beginning, the rules under which we uprooted with the exception of two years. These three current members, senator risch and senator shaheen included, have run this committee in a bipartisan manner.
▶ 0:59:02Sen. Markey: The proposed rules would prevent small business owners from providing their perspective just because of their political affiliation. In order to adequately and efficiently address the problems of small businesses, we need to learn from all small businesses, not just a select few.
▶ 0:59:20Sen. Markey: That is why I am proposing an amendment to continue the 118th congress' rules of equal witnesses to ensure a variety of perspectives and it makes the projects stronger. So I urge the chair to adopt my amendment and continue the decades of long tradition of bipartisanship on this committee.
▶ 0:59:41Chair Ernst: Thank you, wrecking member markey. I oppose this moment as I believe the witness change is minor to conform with standing senate rules. It would only provide for one witness for the minority, I would be willing to work with you to discuss the witness numbers for hearings. I urge a no vote. Is there further debate? Seeing that. Yes. Sorry, shaheen.
▶ 1:00:08Sen. Shaheen: So are you suggesting for hearings going forward, you are willing to entertain having an equal number of witnesses for the majority and minority? I guess I am confused about what rule we are trying to comply with in terms of changing.
▶ 1:00:27Chair Ernst: We are going back to the standing rules of the senate, which allows the majority to have a greater number of witnesses for their committees, but I am willing to entertain discussion on the number of witnesses as we move forward as we would like discussions about field offices or other measures.
▶ 1:00:50Sen. Shaheen: Is that because we are concerned the hearings are lasting too long? I guess I am concerned about why the need for change since it seemed to be working so well.
▶ 1:01:03Chair Ernst: I am just going back to the standing rules of the senate.
▶ 1:01:06Sen. Shaheen: Have you been directed to do that?
▶ 1:01:09Chair Ernst: No, I have not been directed. This is something that I feel is appropriate. We are in the majority. We will go to the standing rules of the senate, which allows additional republican witnesses. But again, in the spirit of bipartisanship, am happy to entertain a different number of witnesses. It will be dependent on the days, the length of time we have to meet as a committee is extremely important.
▶ 1:01:36Chair Ernst: You can see we have many members that come and go, so we will judge that according to other committees that are meeting on those days and be able to adjust the number of witnesses accordingly, but I am absolutely willing to work with our minority on that.
▶ 1:01:49Sen. Shaheen: Well, I appreciate that. I hope the chair will continue to do that. I think as we have all said, certainly I felt this way when you were ranking member and I was chair commit that we tried to work in a bipartisan way that was in the interest of not just the committee but small businesses throughout the country, and I think continuing to operate in a way that recognizes small businesses don't care whether you are republican or democrat, they
▶ 1:02:20Sen. Shaheen: Just need help when they need it, and that is the goal of this committee.
▶ 1:02:23Chair Ernst: Thank you, senator shaheen. Yes, senator rosen.
▶ 1:02:28Sen. Rosen: I want to associate myself with you ranking member and senator shaheen and express my disappointment in the change this committee, small businesses, I don't know if they are democrat or republican. What I do know is 99% of businesses in nevada are small businesses. They have concerns. They have questions. They may have issues depending on the state or region, whatever it is. We just want to be able to have them come and hear their voices.
▶ 1:03:00Sen. Rosen: I never ask their business whether they are democrat or republican. They just are trying to live out their passion, their dream, whatever it is. Madam chair, I believe in the spirit of bipartisanship you know this and it has been important in this committee, such a good space for us in that way, and I would just hope you would maintain that tradition of this entire century except for two years to keep that
▶ 1:03:33Sen. Rosen: Relationship going. Thank you.
▶ 1:03:33Chair Ernst: Yes, thank you, senator rosen. Additional discussion? Thank you, ranking member markey. Again, I do oppose this. Is there further debate on this amendment? Seeing none, the question is on the amendment. All in favor, say aye. All the supposed of a say no -- all of those opposed, say no.
▶ 1:04:00Sen. Markey: Roll call, please.
▶ 1:04:02Chair Ernst: We will do a roll call. Thank you. The clerk will call roll. >> Mr. risch. Dr. paul. Mr. scott. Mr. young. Mr. hawley. Mr. budd. Mr. curtis. Mr. justice. Mr. husted. Mr. markey. Ms. cantwell. Mrs. shaheen.
▶ 1:04:32Chair Ernst: Mr. booker. Mr. coons. Ms. hirono. Ms. rosen. Mr. hickenlooper. Mr. schiff. Ms. chair.
▶ 1:04:45Chair Ernst: No. The clerk will report the vote. >> on markey commitment, the yays are 9, and the nays are 10. The amendment is not agreed to.
▶ 1:05:05Chair Ernst: Ok. Excuse us. Want to make sure we get the right language into the record. I am move favorably to report the committee's rules. All in favor, say aye. The ayes have it. All of those opposed, saying day.
▶ 1:05:27Chair Ernst: The ayes have it and it is the ruling of the chair that the committee's rules with a quorum being are recorded favorably by the committee. Ok, the committee shall stand in recess subject to the call of the chair, and we will meet off the floor then to approve the measures, so thank you. We will stand in recess.