▶ 0:16:06Chair Cassidy: The committee on health, education, labor, and pensions will please come to order. Ms. mcmahon, I appreciate you coming before the committee today. You were very successful leading the small business administration in president trump's first term, and I'm glad the president has given you another opportunity to serve. You have norma's challenges. At the k-12 level, students who were behind before the pandemic are even further behind now.
▶ 0:16:36Chair Cassidy: According to the latest national assessment of educational progress, reading scores among fourth and eighth graders declined five points since the pandemic. In math, fourth-grade scores fell by five points and eighth grade scores fell by eight points. The failures of the traditional schools are leading more families to try other education options proven to help students succeed, like charter schools.
▶ 0:17:03Chair Cassidy: The department of education tried to take these actions away from families and passed onerous regulations making it harder for charter schools to apply for federal grants, impeding their ability to grow and to serve more children. The department's bloated bureaucracy failed to improve the nation's education system and quite likely made it worse. There has been a lot of talk about dismantling the department of education and I'm sure you will be asked this today. Before we begin, I want to explain what the department of education actually does.
▶ 0:17:33Chair Cassidy: On average, about 10% of the public funds that go toward educating the child comes from the federal taxpayer. That is only 10%. 90% comes from state and local government. While the federal government accounts for a small minority of the funding, it is responsible for the vast majority of bureaucracy and red tape, preventing communities from improving education success.
▶ 0:17:57Chair Cassidy: I'm hearing from schools across the country that they have stopped going after federal competitive grant funding because it is not worth the hoops and red tape the department of education has placed on those dollars. The schools are not eager to apply for competitive grants to improve operations. Something is wrong and should change. It is not only the k-12 system failing students. Colleges and universities are not preparing students to succeed in the modern workforce.
▶ 0:18:24Chair Cassidy: The cost of higher education are quickly outpacing the value of the degrees students receive. According to a nonpartisan analysis, 23% of bachelor's degree programs and 43% of masters degrees have a negative return on investment. Too many students leave college woefully unprepared for the workforce, after being saddled with overwhelming debt they cannot pay off.
▶ 0:18:48Chair Cassidy: Under the last of ministration, the department of education's only answer was to transfer hundreds of billions of dollars -- hundreds of billions, and student debt from those who willingly took it on to supposedly advance their life. He transferred it to americans who either chose not to go to college or had already paid their way through school. To implement these schemes, the department dramatically increased the authority of the student loan financing program, clearly outside of what congress previously intended.
▶ 0:19:19Chair Cassidy: Your experience overseeing sba loans will be a great asset as the department looks to reform a very broken student loan program. We have also seen rampant anti-semitism on college campuses, leading to attacks and harassment of jewish students. I'm pleased to see the trump administration has already launched investigations, and I look forward to working with you , assuming you are confirmed. The status quo is not working. The educational system is failing our children.
▶ 0:19:48Chair Cassidy: The biden/harris department of education stood in the way of student success. Transformative change of the educational estep schmidt is needed. The department needs to get out of the way and's -- the way of state and local munis addressed disposition to address student needs. We need to empower parents so they have a voice in their child's education. This includes increasing access to school choice, perhaps also called parental choice, so families can give their child every opportunity to succeed.
▶ 0:20:20Chair Cassidy: With president trump in office and Ms. mcmahon's leadership, we have a real opportunity to accomplish this. Thank you again for coming before this committee to continue the discussion on how we can work together to improve student success and get our education system back on track. With that, I yield to senator sanders, the ranking member.
▶ 0:20:40Sen. Sanders: Thank you, chairman. Ms. mcmahon, nice to see you again. Let me begin by thanking teachers all over this country. This is a very difficult time to be a teacher.
▶ 0:20:58Sen. Sanders: Talking to teachers in vermont and I think teachers all over the country, they are telling me they are spending a lot of their time not only teaching math and english, but dealing with the emotional needs of kids, and our kids are struggling in many ways. I want to thank the teachers very much for the extraordinary work they are doing, especially for some of the most vulnerable kids in our country.
▶ 0:21:29Sen. Sanders: Way back in 1863, as we recall from our history books, abraham lincoln was at gettysburg. He looked out on a field where soldiers by the thousands had just died in the struggle against slavery, and he talked about the need to maintain a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. That was the short but very powerful gettysburg address.
▶ 0:21:55Sen. Sanders: And I think in this country today, there is a growing fear that instead of having a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, we are looking at a government of billionaires by billionaires and for billionaires, whose job is not to improve life for ordinary people, but to make the people on top even wealthier.
▶ 0:22:19Sen. Sanders: So in the midst of massive income and wealth inequality, where three people have more wealth than the bottom half of american society, the republicans in the house yesterday introduced a budget resolution that would provide massive tax breaks to the people on top, and they would pay for those tax breaks for billionaires by cutting
▶ 0:22:49Sen. Sanders: Medicaid, education, and programs that working families throughout this country desperately need. That is exactly the wrong thing to do. At a time when millions of working families are struggling, our job is to protect those families, and not worry about the billionaires who have never had it so good. It is not just cuts in medicaid. As devastating as that would be.
▶ 0:23:17Sen. Sanders: We are looking at, if the republicans get their way, massive cuts to education. I should also say that the people who are trying to privatize social security, privatize medicare, privatize medicaid, privatize the veterans administration, are precisely the same people who are trying to privatize public education in america. We must not allow that to happen.
▶ 0:23:45Sen. Sanders: In america, we must not allow our educational system to become a two-tier system, a system which says that if you have the money, you have got to get help from the federal government to send a kid to a school that may cost $60,000 a year, while the public schools will end up being segregated not just by race, but by class. Most families in america do not have $60,000 a year to send their kids to private schools.
▶ 0:24:14Sen. Sanders: It is absurd to provide public money to make that possible. Our job is not to take away money from public schools to give it to private schools. It is to strengthen public education in america. Further, president trump has talked about abolishing the department of education. Yes, I think everybody on this committee wants to see us go after waste and bureaucracy at every agency of government.
▶ 0:24:43Sen. Sanders: But what we must understand is that when we talk about the department of education, they are providing vital resources for 26 million children in this country who live in high poverty school districts. Is it the responsibility of the federal government to say that every kid in america, whether you are poor, middle-class, rich , gets a quality education? It is.
▶ 0:25:13Sen. Sanders: And that is a lot of what the department of education does. The department of education provides millions of public school students who have disabilities, emotional problems, physical problems -- provides them with help. It provides pell grants and other important financial assistance that over 7 million low income students need to get a higher education. The goal is not to abolish the department of education.
▶ 0:25:38Sen. Sanders: It is to make it more effective, and to make sure that it addresses the educational needs in this country. Chairman, in my view, we need a secretary of education who understands that in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, we should have the best educational system on this planet, from childcare to graduate school.
▶ 0:26:02Sen. Sanders: We need a secretary of education who understands that if you want to attract the best and the brightest of the teaching profession, we have to pay teachers the kinds of salaries that they deserve, which is why I have introduced legislation that says no teacher in america should earn less than $60,000 a year. We need a secretary of education who understands that schools do not end at 2:30 or 3:00. We need strong afterschool programs and summer programs.
▶ 0:26:31Sen. Sanders: We need a secretary of education who understands we have got to invest in mental health. We need a secretary of education who understands we have got to fully fund the individuals with disabilities education act. So there are a lot of questions I have for Mrs. mcmahon. I appreciate her being here and look forward to the discussion. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:26:54Chair Cassidy: Thank you, senator sanders. To introduce Ms. mcmahon, we will start with senator scott.
▶ 0:27:00Sen. Scott: Thank you for allowing me to have an opportunity to talk about my good friend, linda mcmahon. I will say that one of the things I love about the ranking member is his passion about things he cares deeply about. He and I don't agree on the solutions, but I do believe he is a thoughtful person who cares about the issues, and I hope that does not hurt your reelection bid. Let me say this. I am not a billionaire. I never have been and I never will be.
▶ 0:27:30Sen. Scott: I am a kid who grew up in a single-parent household, mired in poverty, whose mother worked two jobs trying to keep the lights on. I went to four different elementary schools by the fourth grade. When I think about the issue of education, I think about how in the world do we ever get to a meritocracy when the vast majority of the kids today are going to segregated schools that are failing those kids?
▶ 0:28:04Sen. Scott: 13 schools in maryland where the average kid -- sorry, 9% -- 99% of the kids -- cannot perform at grade level. I think about chicago, on the south side, where I spent a lot of time, we are 5% of the kids cannot perform at grade level.
▶ 0:28:33Sen. Scott: I think about charleston, south carolina, my hometown, where 60 plus percent of african-american males don't go to college. I think about the quagmire pit of failure that is consistently the case in inner-city schools across america.
▶ 0:28:58Sen. Scott: You talk about the resegregation of america's public schools -- it has already happened. It is happening right now. Our public education spends $850 billion to disappoint families, millions of families, across this country.
▶ 0:29:27Sen. Scott: 10% of the resources come from the federal government, and yet 80% to 90% of all the rules that suppress performance come from washington. The average employee of the department of education -- these numbers are a few years ago, and bernie changed my speech for me. $106,000 for the average teacher -- where the average teacher makes $55,000.
▶ 0:29:57Sen. Scott: Those numbers are four or five years old. My point is that I am a guy who understands the weight of a poor education system, and the benefit of a good education system, because I have experienced both. I chose to introduce linda not because I have an affinity for billionaires.
▶ 0:30:24Sen. Scott: Because I have a passion for quality that changes the trajectory of a poor kid's life permanently. I can't think of a more important civil rights issue today than public education, and the education of our kids. I can't think of a better person to take on that challenge then someone that I have confidence, when she was the administrator of the sba.
▶ 0:30:56Sen. Scott: I can't think of someone better to take on this challenge than someone who took a regional company, w w e, and made it into the global powerhouse that it is today, co-founder, chief executive, linda mcmahon.
▶ 0:31:15Sen. Scott: I can't think of someone better to do the job than someone who served on her own state board of education, who was a trustee at sacred heart university, and who led the policy initiatives at the america first policy institute. That would be linda mcmahon. I can tell you that there are a lot of questions I would like answer, but I don't have time. I can tell you this.
▶ 0:31:45Sen. Scott: For the poorest kids in our country, disillusioned about the american dream, the answers they are looking for rarely come from washington. With all of our good intentions, the department of education has simply failed the poorest kids in the united states of america, the greatest nation on the planet.
▶ 0:32:14Sen. Scott: To turn that around, we need someone who has already succeeded in business and in government. And let me just with this. The department of education does not educate kids. It is a federal agency. Local communities and local teachers educate kids.
▶ 0:32:37Sen. Scott: Our department of education is a federal behemoth that needs to focus on getting more money in the hands of more students, so that they have a better chance. And yes, I do believe that competition makes your quality go up and your cost go down. Charter schools prove that. Private schools prove that. And finally, pell grants.
▶ 0:33:08Sen. Scott: Pell grants take public dollars for private schools. Unfortunately, poor black kids today, the vast majority, won't have a pell grant. Why? Because if you don't graduate from high school, if you don't have proficiency in reading, math, and science, the likelihood of you going to college is zero. Let's improve our k-12 system.
▶ 0:33:37Sen. Scott: So that more of america's poor rural kids and inner-city kids both have the experience I had, of realizing their version of the american dream.
▶ 0:33:55Chair Cassidy: Thank you, senator scott. Very powerful. Senator britt.
▶ 0:34:00Sen. Britt: That was amazing, thank you. My colleague nailed it. Chair cassidy, ranking member sanders, and members of this committee, I am honored to join you today to introduce president trump's nominee for secretary of education, my friend, linda mcmahon. It is clear that our current education system is not working. We have the status quo, and that is actually failing our kids.
▶ 0:34:31Sen. Britt: As you mentioned, Mr. chairman, the latest neap scores showed that reading and math scores are down in almost every single estate, to the point where only 30% of eighth graders are meeting reading proficiency levels. The status quo in education has not just failed students. It has failed parents, just like me, and very respectfully, Mr.
▶ 0:34:58Sen. Britt: Ranking member, the america you just described, the one you are fearful will be created -- it already exists. Our students deserve better. Our parents deserve better. We have to do something different in order to achieve a different result. For far too long, the department of education has catered to far left bureaucrats at the expense of moms and dads.
▶ 0:35:24Sen. Britt: It pushed for school closure -- school closures, remove parental rights, promoted radical ideologies in the classroom, and supported allowing men and boys to play in women and girls sports. Enough is enough. We need a change agent at the department of education, and that change agent is linda mcmahon. She is the perfect antidote to what is wrong with education in this country.
▶ 0:35:54Sen. Britt: Linda has an immensely successful track record as a business executive, as a leader of a government agency, and as an america first policy advocate. She is not just an overwhelmingly qualified nominee for secretary of education, but a nominee who can make a real difference at a department that sorely needs it. She is also a grandmother of six, with a personal stake in the quality of our education system.
▶ 0:36:23Sen. Britt: She understands how important it is that our kids learn what they are supposed to, and how important it is for parents to be empowered. I am right there with her. And that is not the only mission that linda will pursue as a secretary of education. Attending a four-year college or university is the right path for many americans, but it is not the only one available to graduating high schoolers, and linda will ensure that students know that.
▶ 0:36:52Sen. Britt: Linda led efforts to empower the american worker at afp I, and I'm confident she will make aligning our education system and our workforce systems a priority at the department of education. That means strengthening when he first century skills training and job preparedness, bridging the gap between technical school programs and industries, and expanding apprenticeships and credentialing programs.
▶ 0:37:18Sen. Britt: Linda mcmahon is someone who knows how to reform our education system so it actually prepares her kids for the future, while also empowering parents to make decisions that affect their children's lives. She has the experience. She already demonstrated her immense ability to get the government out of the way, as head of the small business administration.
▶ 0:37:44Sen. Britt: And she knows both k-12 and higher education, as my distinct colic senator scott said, by serving on the connecticut school board of education and the sick or hurt university, where she was on that since 2004. Confirmation as secretary of education will be a monumental step toward preserving the american dream and making a bright future possible for the next generation of americans. Let's put parents in the driver seat.
▶ 0:38:16Sen. Britt: Let's return to the fundamental's of classroom learning and teach kids the skills they need to actually achieve their goals. Let's put education in the hands of states, not unaccountable federal bureaucrats. And for our kids sake, that's confirmed my friend, linda mcmahon. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:38:35Chair Cassidy: Ms. mcmahon, your opening statement, and you are welcome to introduce your guests.
▶ 0:38:41Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, chairman cassidy. I would like to introduce my daughter, paul levesque, her husband, and my son. I have come from far faces -- fireplaces. So I appreciate they are here. Thank you, chairman cassidy, ranking member sanders, and distinguished members of the committee.
▶ 0:39:11Ms. Mcmahon: I'm honored to have your consideration to serve as the secretary of the department of education, and I would like to thank both senator scott and senator britt for their introductions. [indiscernible]
▶ 0:39:28Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly. I would like to thank both senator scott and senator britt for their introductions and for the opportunity to welcome my friends and family. Thank you also much for being with me today. It would also like to thank president trump confidence in me to lead a department whose mission and authority were a special focus of his campaign.
▶ 0:39:49Ms. Mcmahon: He pledged to make american education the best in the world, return education to the states, where it belongs, and free american students from the education bureaucracy through school choice. November prove that americans overwhelmingly support the president's vision, and I'm ready to inactive. Education is the issue that determines our national success, the prepares american workers to win the future.
▶ 0:40:14Ms. Mcmahon: I have been passionate about education since my earliest college days, when I studied to get a teaching certificate. This continued through my business career. As a connecticut state board of education member, as a university trustee, and as the chair of the america first policy institute, which advocates for workforce development parental choice, and accountability in higher education.
▶ 0:40:38Ms. Mcmahon: I am also a mother and a grandmother, and I joined millions of american parents who want better schools for our kids and grandkids. The legacy of our nation's leadership in education is one that every person in this room embraces with pride. Unfortunately, many americans today are experiencing a system in decline. The latest scores from the nation's report card show achievement in k-12 math and reading at their lowest level in years.
▶ 0:41:07Ms. Mcmahon: More than two thirds of public colleges are beset by violent crime on campuses every year. Most tragically, student suicide rates have dramatically increased over the last two decades. We can do better. We can do better for the elementary and junior high school students by teaching basic reading and mathematics. For the college freshman facing censorship or anti-semitism on campus, and for parents and grandparents who worry that their children and grandchildren are no longer taught american values and a true history.
▶ 0:41:40Ms. Mcmahon: In many cases, our wounds are caused by the excessive consolidation of power in our federal education establishment. What is the remedy? Find education free of government run systems. This end parents, not politicians. Build careers, not college debt. Empower states, not special interests. Invest in teachers, not washington bureaucrats.
▶ 0:42:05Ms. Mcmahon: If confirmed as secretary, I will work with congress three orient the department toward helping educators, not controlling them. My experience as a business owner and leader of the small business administration, as a public servant in the state of connecticut, and more than a decade of service as a college trustee has taught me to put parents, teachers, and students, not bureaucracy, first.
▶ 0:42:27Ms. Mcmahon: Outstanding teachers are tired of political ideology in their curriculum and red tape their desks, and that is why school choice is a growing movement across the nation. It offers teachers and parents an alternative to classrooms that are micromanaged from washington, D.C. we should also emphasize career-focused education, especially in cutting-edge stem fields. American companies need high skill employees.
▶ 0:42:53Ms. Mcmahon: Our workers deserve more post secondary pathways, career aligned programs, apprenticeships, and on the job learning. Jobs in tech and health care and the skilled trades for non-college degree holders. Those who do attend college deserve transparent costs and study aligned with workforce demand. The united states is the world leader in emerging technologies like ai and blockchain, and we need to invest in american students who want to become tech pioneers.
▶ 0:43:23Ms. Mcmahon: We should encourage innovative new institutions, develop smart accountability systems, and tear down barriers to entry, so that students have real choice and universities are not settling families with unsurmountable debt. We must protect all students from discrimination and harassment. If I am confirmed, the department will not stand idly by while jewish students are attacked and discriminate against.
▶ 0:43:47Ms. Mcmahon: It will stop forcing schools to let boys and men into female sports and spaces, and it will protect the rights of parents to put -- to direct the moral education of their children. The opportunity before us these next four years is momentous. I look forward to working with the committee, our nation' as parents, teachers, and students, and educators from all political perspectives to build a better future for every american learner. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:44:16Chair Cassidy: Thank you very much. I shall begin. Everybody is rightly focused on the fact that we have a problem with reading scores. They have been anchored where they are for quite some time come up with an incredibly high percentage of children not reading at grade level. An old truism that kids learn to read by grade three or four and they read to learn thereafter -- that they are not learning to read by grade three or four.
▶ 0:44:45Chair Cassidy: That said, according to the nih review of literature, dyslexia affects between 5% of the population. They learn differently. If their differences are not acknowledged, there will be an anchor holding reading scores down. This intuitively makes sense, to diagnose a child with dyslexia as soon as possible. Most states do not scream. You can see where I am going with my own thoughts.
▶ 0:45:12Chair Cassidy: What would be your approach to addressing the issue of dyslexia, not in a state like new hampshire, where governor hassan put in some programs, but in other states? What would be your approach to make sure that a child who is dyslexic is diagnosed at an early stage and receives the intervention that she or he would need to receive?
▶ 0:45:34Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator cassidy, and I know this is a sensitive subject for you. Your son does have dyslexia, as you and I discussed.
▶ 0:45:43Chair Cassidy: My daughter.
▶ 0:45:46Ms. Mcmahon: I'm sorry, your daughter. I would like to be sure we are looking to diagnose issues like dyslexia early, because we have found that it can be turned around. I would like to work with you and understand how we could have a better approach for that in our school system.
▶ 0:46:03Chair Cassidy: You mentioned that you would not tolerate the anti-semitism that has been on the rise. What steps would you take to make sure the backlog of antisemitism cases at the office of civil rights is processed, and those responsible for illegal discrimination held accountable?
▶ 0:46:21Ms. Mcmahon: Senator kennedy -- cassidy, I'm sorry. I think that by for what we saw happening on our campuses was absolutely deplorable. Kids locked in libraries, afraid to come out. I believe in freedom of speech on campus, open debate. We should encourage that. But we cannot allow violence happening on her campuses.
▶ 0:46:45Ms. Mcmahon: That puts all students in an unsafe place and if I were confirmed as the secretary of education, I would want to make sure that the presidents of those universities and those colleges are taking very strong measures not to allow this to happen. They can call the police. They can do what they need to do. Set standards. And make sure those standards are upheld. We cannot allow that kind of violence to take place on our college campuses.
▶ 0:47:10Chair Cassidy: There is a current backlog in the office of civil rights within the department of education, to address this. Do you have specific plans about how you could help them address the backlog?
▶ 0:47:20Ms. Mcmahon: I would like very much to be confirmed and to be able to get into the department and understand that backlog, to talk to those lawyers that were there. Let's focus on what we need to do to clear out that backlog. I look forward to doing that.
▶ 0:47:34Chair Cassidy: President trump is reportedly drafting an executive order requiring the secretary of education to develop a plan for downsizing the board of education, and working with congress to them -- to eliminate it entirely. Do you agree that since the department was crated by congress, it would need an active function to actually close the department of education?
▶ 0:47:57Ms. Mcmahon: President trump understands we would be working with congress. We would like to do this right. We would like to make sure that we are presenting a plan that I think our senators could get on board with and our congress could get on board with, that would have a better functioning department of education. Certainly, those require action.
▶ 0:48:22Chair Cassidy: -- require conditional action.
▶ 0:48:25Chair Cassidy: What would be components of that plan that would not require congressional approval?
▶ 0:48:32Ms. Mcmahon: I do believe there are departments that are established by statute. Those departments, we would have to pay particular attention to. But long before there was a department of education, we fulfilled the programs of our system. Are there other agencies or parts where the department of education could better serve our students and parents on a local level?
▶ 0:48:59Ms. Mcmahon: I am really all for the president's mission, which is to return education to the states. I believe, as he does, that the best education is close to the child.
▶ 0:49:09Chair Cassidy: If you downsize, good states and localities still receive the federal funding they need?
▶ 0:49:17Ms. Mcmahon: It is not the goal to defund programs, only to have it operate more efficiently.
▶ 0:49:24Chair Cassidy: I yelled to senator sanders.
▶ 0:49:28Sen. Sanders: Thank, Mr. chairman. When we talk about education, looking at it in a vacuum, we are looking at the struggles of parents and kids. Nor also aware that in america we have more income and wealth inequality than we have ever had before. You are aware we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth.
▶ 0:49:55Sen. Sanders: You are aware, I suspect, the teachers are getting kids who are literally homeless, kids who come from dysfunctional families where there is violence. Does it concern you that we are living in a society where the people on top are doing phenomenally well, and 60% of americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck? How do you think that impacts our educational system?
▶ 0:50:20Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator, for that question. First of all, let me say that I believe that teaching is one of the most noble professions we have in our country. Have so many good, dedicated teachers to help our students. I do believe we are trapping students in low performing schools. That is why the president has such a strong policy toward school choice.
▶ 0:50:49Sen. Sanders: But you agree you cannot just look at education? The middle-class public schools generally do pretty well. But if you are homeless, if you are a homeless person, and your kids -- I'm asking you. What do you think about the massive level of income and wealth inequality, the fact that we have the highest rate of childhood poverty? Is that something you might pay attention to?
▶ 0:51:12Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly, senator, I do believe we want to make sure that every child in our country has the opportunity to have equal access to a quality education. The department of education is not setting economic policy in the country. We should focus on educating our children, and we should focus on it at the local level.
▶ 0:51:37Sen. Sanders: You mentioned correctly that we have many great teachers. If you as a businesswoman wanted to attract the best and the brightest, would you be starting $60,000 in debt? You talk about the noblest profession.
▶ 0:52:03Sen. Sanders: Would you support the legislation that says no teacher in america should earn at least $60,000 a year?
▶ 0:52:10Ms. Mcmahon: The pay of teachers is up to states, where those teachers reside. I do believe we should pay our teachers fairly. They spent so much time with her students. They should be well compensated.
▶ 0:52:23Sen. Sanders: Nobody in the world would disagree with you. If teaching is a noble profession, if teaching is an important profession, should we be paying them salaries commensurate with the value of the work they are doing? Asking you a simple question. Would you recommend to states, as the leader in education in america, that teachers make at least $60,000?
▶ 0:52:54Ms. Mcmahon: I would recommend that teachers be paid what is commensurate with the kind of jobs of their states. Not all states have the same living costs or the same ability to pay teachers. We should pay them commensurate with the job performance they are undertaking.
▶ 0:53:15Sen. Sanders: Millions of young and low income people are finding it very difficult to afford to go to college. They are leaving in debt. The pell grant program provides assistance to 7 million low income people in this country.
▶ 0:53:38Sen. Sanders: Can you guarantee to us that no student in america will lose their pell grant as the department is dismantled?
▶ 0:53:50Ms. Mcmahon: D funding is not the goal here. The continuation of programs -- I would like to see an expansion of pell grant's. I would like to see short-term certificate pell grant's for students who are not going on to four year anniversary -- four-year universities.
▶ 0:54:07Sen. Sanders: . What I'm hearing you say is the pell grant program will continue under your administration.
▶ 0:54:11Ms. Mcmahon: Yes.
▶ 0:54:16Sen. Sanders: Senator cassidy asked you an important question. That is, do you agree -- let me once again get your feelings on this -- that if there is a movement to abolish the department of education, has to go through the united states congress?
▶ 0:54:33Ms. Mcmahon: Yes, it is set up by the united states congress, and we work with congress. We clearly cannot be shut down without it.
▶ 0:54:43Sen. Sanders: Thank you.
▶ 0:54:44Chair Cassidy: Senator collins?
▶ 0:54:47Sen. Collins: Thank you. Welcome. First of all, let me say I was very pleased to hear your strong commitment to enforcing the office of civil rights jurisdiction over the many incidences, formal instances of anti-semitism, that we have seen on our college campuses.
▶ 0:55:15Sen. Collins: Among the important programs that are administered by the department, art title I, and the trio program. Those have been high priorities for me. I want to briefly discuss those programs. Title I helps public schools that are serving low income students. It helps level the playing field in terms of resources compared to more affluent communities.
▶ 0:55:47Sen. Collins: In maine, 63% of our public schools received title I funds. Very important to our state. Second, I dea, the disabilities and education act, which helps children with special needs. Maine receives more than six $5 million to support k-12 students with special education needs.
▶ 0:56:14Sen. Collins: I would note that falls short of the 40% that was promised when the legislation was passed in the 1970's. Trio programs, which we have discussed, have change the lives of countless first-generation students who are going to college and come from families with no experience with higher education. I've seen so many success stories as a result of trio.
▶ 0:56:47Sen. Collins: So my question for you is how do we maintain the administration and oversight of these programs if we abolish or substantially reorganize the department of education?
▶ 0:57:03Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator collins, and I know how passionate you are about these issues. I enjoyed meeting with you in your office and talking about these various things, especially the trio program, which we both agree was hit a terrible blow by regulation with some of the students who were applying. Their applications were rejected simply because of spacing on a farm.
▶ 0:57:32Ms. Mcmahon: That kind of regulatory -- regulatory control is just impossible. The title I programs that you discussed will continue to be appropriated through congress. Today, they go directly to the state department of education and are stupid it to the districts. We are not looking to reduce any of those amounts. Idea is the same, but might it be better served in a different agency? We are not sure.
▶ 0:58:01Ms. Mcmahon: There are concerns for disabilities and health issues with students may rest better within an agency that has more oversight of all of those. I think if I am confirmed, to be able to get in and assess programs, so we can have the best oversight possible, we can really take the bureaucracy out of education and focus on teaching our children to read and to do math, and to appreciate our history.
▶ 0:58:30Ms. Mcmahon: That is certainly my goal, or would be my goal as the secretary of education.
▶ 0:58:38Sen. Collins: On monday, the administration announced that the department of education was going to terminate 89 contracts from the institute of education sciences. They were worth $881 million. As well as terminating 29 training grants.
▶ 0:58:58Sen. Collins: My office heard from a former teacher from maine who has developed a high impact tutoring program that is currently being used in 12 schools in maine alone. She has one of the grant applications pending to morph early -- more thoroughly impact -- evaluate the impact on student outcomes.
▶ 0:59:26Sen. Collins: She is worried it is going to be in jeopardy due to these sudden cuts. Considering the poor reading and math scores, and that includes poor scores in my home state, shouldn't the department of education continue to collect data and evaluate outcomes rather than halt these activities, so you can help states know what works?
▶ 0:59:56Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator. It is my goal if I am confirmed to get in and assess these kinds of programs. I'm not sure yet, the impact of all of those programs. I know there are many worthwhile programs we should keep. But I am not yet apprised of them. I want to study them. Would like to get back and talk to you more. I look forward to working with this committee and congress to make sure we can deliver for our education. Thank you.
▶ 1:00:29Sen. Collins: Thank you. I appreciate your responses. >> the committee will come to order. Senator murray?
▶ 1:00:39Sen. Murray: Thank you. Elon musk's doge staffers have reportedly set up camp at the department of education. They have been given access to highly sensitive student data and have started holding back money that congress decided on a bipartisan basis was needed to help our students. We are also hearing about an executive order coming any day that will seek to dismantle the department of education. These are bipartisan laws.
▶ 1:01:10Sen. Murray: You indicated you understood that congress passed these laws. But a lot of turmoil is happening. You heard it from my colleague asking that question now. I want to ask you -- do you can -- do you commit to getting every dollar we have invested in our students and schools out to them?
▶ 1:01:29Ms. Mcmahon: The appropriated dollars and those moneys passed by congress, yes. I have no issue, however, with the fact -- and I believe the american people spoke loudly in the election last november to say they want to look at waste, fraud, and abuse in our government. Doge, there are a couple of implants at the department of education, as there are throughout the district. They are doing an audit.
▶ 1:01:57Sen. Murray: I understand an audit, but when congress appropriates money, it is the administration's response ability to put that out as directed by congress, who has the power of the purse. What would you do if the president or elon musk tells you not to spend money? Congress has appropriated it to you.
▶ 1:02:15Ms. Mcmahon: I would certainly expend those dollars that congress has passed. I do think it is worthwhile to take a look at the programs for money goes out the door. It is much easier to stop the money as it is going out the door than it is to client back.
▶ 1:02:34Sen. Murray: You look at that and make recommendations to congress, and we implement those laws. The question really is who decides how much federal funding public schools get in seattle where it has already been allocated? The school district or elon musk or congress? I think congress has made it pretty clear that the purse lies here. We pass our appropriations bills. We expect those programs to come.
▶ 1:03:04Sen. Murray: If you have input, if you have programs you have looked at that you believe are not effective, it is your job to come to us and explain why, and get the support for that. That me move on. Ms. mcmahon, I believe that our nation's students, families, and taxpayers do want true accountability. They want improvement in our schools. Back in 2015, congress came together in a bipartisan way to replace the no child left behind act with the new law, every student succeeds.
▶ 1:03:33Sen. Murray: That was a bill I was very proud to negotiate with my republican counterpart on this committee. We passed into law. It gives states more flexibility in using their federal education funds. It illuminated those one-size-fits-all mandates that everyone hated. It established some really strong federal guard lane -- guard rails. I believe the department of education must do more to implant that loft.
▶ 1:04:02Sen. Murray: Right now, schools identified for comprehensive support had a plan that met all the requirements of that law. One in five schools had practices we know are ineffective. You know the national assessment showed that our worst performing students continue to fall the furthest behind. I want to ask you what specific actions will you take to implement the law?
▶ 1:04:32Sen. Murray: I'm not looking for an exhaustive list, but can you name requirements in that law that you will make sure our implement it?
▶ 1:04:38Ms. Mcmahon: Senator, thank you. I would look forward to working with you and the committee, understanding more about the law.
▶ 1:04:46Sen. Murray: Do you know what the requirements are? Do you know the requirements for targeted reports question mark can you name any of the requirements?
▶ 1:04:56Ms. Mcmahon: I have read through it and it is interesting. It is really how I got into education in the first place, was when noel -- no child behind was in place.
▶ 1:05:08Sen. Murray: But there are new requirements that you can make sure as secretary of education are followed?
▶ 1:05:14Ms. Mcmahon: I will study that and get back to you.
▶ 1:05:18Sen. Murray: One last question. As I mentioned, doge staff have been given access to personal information of students and families, like their social security numbers and driver license numbers, date of birth, what college they are enrolled in.
▶ 1:05:38Sen. Murray: I know the access has been temporarily paused due to litigation, but there is a real potential for that kind of information to be abused, or for student privacy to be placed in jeopardy if the courts wind up ruling against the students. We know does could use -- doge could target students are cut off access to pell grant for students in a college that someone opposes maybe president's policies.
▶ 1:06:07Sen. Murray: We believe that -- do you believe doge employees should have access to private student data?
▶ 1:06:17Ms. Mcmahon: I believe they have been on boarded on the department of education and operate under the constraints of utilizing access of information.
▶ 1:06:28Sen. Murray: That is not our understanding and it deeply concerning that we have doge staffers -- we don't know who they are, they are not being held accountable -- who have access to our students. Thank you, madam chair.
▶ 1:06:40Ms. Mcmahon: It is my understanding that they are on boarded.
▶ 1:06:45Sen. Murray: I hope when you do get there that you make sure student information is not given to someone who has no idea -- or we have no idea how they are using it. Thank you. >> Ms. mcmahon, thank you. Congratulations on your nomination. I look forward to your confirmation, hopefully, in working with you on what is arguably one of the most important issues to the future of our country and our children.
▶ 1:07:17Sen. Murray: I would simply ask you if you believe that education is foundational to the opportunity to live the american dream for children. Do you agree with that?
▶ 1:07:28Ms. Mcmahon: I do agree with that, and thank you, senator, for that question. Education is at the very center of our culture. It is the ticket out of poverty for so many students. It is how our children's minds are absolutely cultivated, so they can learn.
▶ 1:07:54Ms. Mcmahon: I remember listening to senator cassidy when he said that every child up to the third grade learns to read, and then after the third grade, reads to learn. If a child cannot read at proficiency level, they cannot learn. They cannot be proficient in school. They cannot go forward to higher education. They cannot start a business or do anything.
▶ 1:08:19Ms. Mcmahon: Education, I do believe, is at the very center of what we need to do, and to ensure we have the best education to our students and they have access to a quality education.
▶ 1:08:31Sen. Who Stood -- Sen Husted: I can tell you when I started in my elected career I was a green state legislator in the state of ohio who had this strange notion that if children were trapped in chronically failing schools that they should have the opportunity to go somewhere else, and who could be against that? I quickly found out there are a lot of people who were against that -- powerful people. Powerful institutions.
▶ 1:09:04Sen. Who Stood -- Sen Husted: And as americans, we believe that freedom and choice is good. It is part of our dna. It is good for markets and business. And monopolies don't work, whether that is big business or big government. That has reinforced to me over the course of basically my lifetime that I have worked on this issue. Foundational he or fundamentally, billionaires have choice. It is children that grow up in poverty that do not have choice.
▶ 1:09:39Sen. Who Stood -- Sen Husted: That is an important element to fixing inequality, because if we are going to say that education is foundational to living the american dream and you do not have a choice to go to a school that serves your needs, we basically have institutionalized a barrier against that opportunity. And to have that equality of opportunity -- just share with me how you hope to fix that.
▶ 1:10:07Ms. Mcmahon: The president, one of his cornerstones with education is school choice. He certainly does believe in universal school choice. We have seen I think that there are -- I believe the number is 33 states. States that do have school choice. We have found that public schools come up. They are competitive. A lot of the concerns relative to school choice -- and I think the statistics would lie.
▶ 1:10:40Ms. Mcmahon: We have students that are not leaving public schools in hordes, but they have the opportunity. Parents look at their children and say I want that for my child. My school is failing my child. If I have the opportunity to have a voucher program or a scholarship program to get my child to the charter school or the other public school that is doing better than the one my child is in because that is where I live -- I know if I could get my child to that
▶ 1:11:12Ms. Mcmahon: School, they would be better off. Every parent wants that opportunity for their child.
▶ 1:11:17Sen. Husted: Thank you. Just quickly, I made some calls to superintendents in my state of ohio before I came today. I said would you prefer to have the money sent directly to you rather than run through the federal department of education? Do you think you could do a better job if we release you from the rules and regulations? They said yes. Tell us what you want to achieve. We will do it. I want to share that with you.
▶ 1:11:49Sen. Husted: I also want to give you a chance to answer this. You are not an president trump is not talking about cutting any funding for children. You are not talking about cutting funding for disabled children. You are just talking about changing the way money gets to the students and schools and you are committed to that. Is that correct?
▶ 1:12:10Ms. Mcmahon: That is correct, senator. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:12:14Sen. Husted: Thank you.
▶ 1:12:16Chair Cassidy: Senator?
▶ 1:12:20Sen. Baldwin: Before I start my questions, I want to put some studies in the record, research studies of private school vouchers in louisiana, indiana, ohio, and washington, D.C. students with vouchers perform worse academically than their public school peers. I ask unanimous consent to enter this into the record to show that private school vouchers have a negative impact on student achievement.
▶ 1:12:49Chair Cassidy: Without objection.
▶ 1:12:55Sen. Baldwin: Thank you. I believe in giving all the president's nominees a fair shake. That is what the people of wisconsin expect from me. I look forward to hearing more about your approach to running the department of education. Since 1972, title ix has been a critical tool in ensuring that all students are protected from sex-based discrimination in federally funded educational programs.
▶ 1:13:23Sen. Baldwin: We briefly discussed title ix in our meeting, what I would like to ask you a series of yes or no questions to get into a little more detail here. Yes or no. Do you believe that title ix should protect students from sexual harassment and sexual assault?
▶ 1:13:41Ms. Mcmahon: Yes, I do.
▶ 1:13:44Sen. Baldwin: Do you believe that sexual harassment that is severe it should be prohibited under title ix?
▶ 1:13:49Ms. Mcmahon: I think sexual harassment should be prohibited in any case.
▶ 1:13:55Sen. Baldwin: Do you believe sexual harassment that is pervasive should be prohibited by title ix?
▶ 1:14:03Ms. Mcmahon: Yes.
▶ 1:14:06Sen. Baldwin: Do you believe that harassment that is either severe or pervasive should be prohibited under title ix?
▶ 1:14:12Ms. Mcmahon: I don't believe there should be any acceptance of sexual harassment, senator.
▶ 1:14:20Sen. Baldwin: Great. I'm glad you actually agree with president trump's efforts during his first term to narrow what qualifies as sexual harassment under title ix. His guidance said that sexual harassment had to be severe and pervasive c1 --
▶ 1:14:49Sen. Baldwin: I hope you will take your position and press for that to be the law. Right now, title ix is limited to sexual harassment that is severe and pervasive not severe or pervasive.
▶ 1:15:07Sen. Baldwin: Yes or no, if an assault occurs between two students but it happens off-campus, do you think the school should have the ability to investigate that matter?
▶ 1:15:20Ms. Mcmahon: I think the school should investigate that matter. I believe under the regulations today, I could be corrected on that but they are obligated to investigate.
▶ 1:15:31Sen. Baldwin: Do you believe that the school then should have the ability to take actions regarding an incident that occurs off-campus?
▶ 1:15:40Ms. Mcmahon: I think the school should be required to take those actions and to investigate and to notify the parties that are involved. So that both sides of the equation can have due process.
▶ 1:15:58Sen. Baldwin: I appreciate your answer. It's not entirely clear at this time that the incidence would not only be investigated but adjudicated asta the schools adjudication rules -- as to the schools adjudication rules.
▶ 1:16:18Sen. Baldwin: The problem with that, as I'm sure you are aware, is that you would have the potential of a victim of sexual assault facing the possibility of attending class with their perpetrator. Despite how much this administration likes to talk about protecting women and girls , the actions have not matched the rhetoric.
▶ 1:16:39Sen. Baldwin: And so, I think instead of actually protecting women and girls, this administration is not making school a safer place for anyone, while using this topic as a way to piermont or and demonize others. Miss m-- Ms.
▶ 1:16:56Sen. Baldwin: Mcmahon, you and yr husband have been named in a lawsuit that alleges -- it is an ongoing lawsuit ended alleges that you rehired a known sexual predator and you felt it was sufficient to simply direct him to steer clear of children.
▶ 1:17:26Sen. Baldwin: If confirmed, you will be responsible with overseeing the department of civil writes, charged with ensuring equal access to education through vigorous enforcement of civil writes laws. I am so concerned about whether sexual assault survivors on campus can trust you to support them.
▶ 1:17:48Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator. They can trust me to support them. I have a granddaughter who is now in college. I have two grandsons who are in college. I have a deep commitment of understanding of how I would feel if any of them were involved in sexual harassment were accused of sexual harassment. You have my absolute commitment that I will uphold and protect those investigations to make sure that those students are treated fairly on both sides.
▶ 1:18:20Sen. Baldwin: We met shortly after a shooting -- I will submit this question for the record. Thank you.
▶ 1:18:31Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator.
▶ 1:18:35Chair Cassidy: Senator tuberville. Sen. tupper Sen. tuptuberville. : I'm a football coach. I taught high school and work my way up for 40 years. The country does not owe you anything. But an opportunity. That's the reason this country is the greatest country on the face of the earth.
▶ 1:19:04Chair Cassidy: When you lose the opportunity, I've lost many times, that's where you learn, from education. I've been to every state in this country for recruiting except for alaska in my 40 years. In my 40 years of coaching and going into high schools, there's not been a bigger disappointment than our education system. I have seen a decline for 40 years. It's gotten worse.
▶ 1:19:33Chair Cassidy: You are going to have the task of trying to bring it back. It's going to be hard to do. This is not democrat, republican, black or white, it's an american problem. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars of my budget bringing kids in and when I tested them, they couldn't read past a sixth-grade reading level but they had a 3.5 gpa.
▶ 1:20:04Chair Cassidy: We are failing. It's a disaster. If you can't read, you can't learn. We have to get back to teaching our kids to read. We have a lot of teachers who don't teach reading like you and I learned it. It's different. We have all of this nonsensical teaching of common core. I still haven't figured that out. Thanks for wanting to take this on. There are a lot of obstacles that will be in your way. Don't be afraid to make changes. We've had a k-12 system for years. It's a failure.
▶ 1:20:36Chair Cassidy: It is an absolute failure. Let's teach our kids. That's the only chance they've got to survive in this world which will be very competitive. Now, we have things like it in our way. And what is deterring our kids nowadays? That thing right there. I had problems coaching with it. Enemy number one when I told them put the phone up, don't bring it to my dressing room because I want you to listen and learn. Not be on there, listening to music and reading the nonsense you see on there.
▶ 1:21:07Chair Cassidy: You have a lot of options. The one thing I think we need to do is look at k-12 and what do we do? How do we get better? I'm all for workforce development in the last two years of high school. Teaching kids to learn to use their hands. And what's your thoughts on that, in high school? I'm not talking about as a past time. I'm talking about the last couple of years.
▶ 1:21:31Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator. I think when you and I met and I appreciated that time, I discussed with you that I probably dated myself by saying when I was in high school. In your senior year in high school, you could take vocational programs which meant you went to school for the first part of the day in the second part of the day, you could have a job. You could learn a skill or a trade and those crits would count toward your education. I think we need to get back to more of that. We are not teaching skill-based learning in our schools anymore.
▶ 1:22:02Ms. Mcmahon: And I think we have to look at our entire education system and say four year colleges not for everyone. For those particular jobs that require it, doctors, lawyers, engineers, --
▶ 1:22:19Chair Cassidy: Miss mcmahon, please suspend. The committee will come to order. Capitol police are asked to remove the individual from the room.
▶ 1:22:34Sen. Tuberville: I don't think she knows how to read.
▶ 1:22:36Chair Cassidy: Members of the audience are reminded that interruptions will not be prem pr aloud.
▶ 1:22:46Ms. Mcmahon: To continue into what we were talking about, we don't have enough skill-based learning. We don't have internships or apprenticeship programs. I would like to see more dual credits in our high schools our jr. And senior years that would count toward community colleges or other institutes that would get students through college faster if in fact that is the plan they are going to take.
▶ 1:23:13Ms. Mcmahon: So, we have so much that we can do to help our students get prepared to have a good income and a good livelihood. If they can graduate from high school with some skill-based already, they can even start business of their own. They can decide at that particular point, I want to put more money toward my own education. In the meantime, I'm prepared to make a living.
▶ 1:23:38Ms. Mcmahon: I think we have to look at our education and say are vocational and skill based training is not a default education. It should be something that should be front and center so that students who are inclined to go in that direction actually should be encouraged to do that. It's not one-size-fits-all.
▶ 1:23:55Sen. Tuberville: My time is all most up. Looking at the number of teachers we have now as compared to administrators, we need teachers. We don't need people in the office with their feet propped up. We need people in the classroom, teaching these kids and holding them accountable. Put more money into teachers and less into administrators and I think we would be a lot better off. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:24:17Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you.
▶ 1:24:20Chair Cassidy: I will note that many of the losses coach tub or bill suffered where the hands of lsu. -- coach tub or -- coach tub erville suffered were at the hands of lsu. [laughter]
▶ 1:24:38Sen. Murphy: I want to talk to you about an executive order that the trump administration issued. That commands agencies including the department of education to eliminate grants to organizations and entities that support dei programs and activities. This has a lot of schools across the country scrambling. Because they have no idea what that means.
▶ 1:25:08Sen. Murphy: They don't know because the order does not define dei as to whether they are in compliance are out of compliance and whether they will have their federal grants compromise. How does the school know whether it is running a dei program or not? Certainly --
▶ 1:25:28Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly. Thank you, senator. It's good to see you again outside of the state of connecticut where we run into each other. Dei has been -- it's a program that is tough. It was put in place extensively for more diversity -- host and ostensibly for more diversity.
▶ 1:25:57Ms. Mcmahon: What we are seeing it what we are seeing is it is having the opposite effect. There is dei saying blacks and hispanics need separate ceremonies. We are not achieving what we wanted to achieve with inclusion.
▶ 1:26:13Sen. Murphy: This order applies to department of defense schools . Those schools have canceled all programming around black history month.
▶ 1:26:26Sen. Murphy: So, if a school in connecticut celebrates martin luther king day and has a series of events and programming, teaching about black history, are they in violation of a policy that says school should stop running dei programs?
▶ 1:26:44Ms. Mcmahon: Not in my view. That's clearly not the case. The celebration of martin luther king day and black history month should be celebrated throughout all of our schools. I believe that martin luther king was one of the strongest proponents of making sure that we look at all of our populations. When he said that he would hope that his children wouldn't be judged by the color of their skin but the content of their character, I think that's the fundamental basis that we should celebrate black history month.
▶ 1:27:14Sen. Murphy: West point has closed down all ethnic clubs. The society of black engineers can no longer meet because they believe it to be in compliance with this order, they cannot have groups structured around ethnic or racial affiliations. Would schools -- would public schools be in violation of this order, with a risk funding if they had clubs that students could belong to based on racial or ethnic identity?
▶ 1:27:41Ms. Mcmahon: I certainly today don't want to address hypothetical situations. I would like, once I'm confirmed, to get in and assess these programs, --
▶ 1:27:51Sen. Murphy: Isn't that an easy one? You are saying there is a possibility that if a school has a club for vietnamese-american students or black students where they meet after school, that they could be potentially in jeopardy of receiving federal funding?
▶ 1:28:07Ms. Mcmahon: Again, I would like to fully understand what that order is and what those clubs are doing.
▶ 1:28:15Sen. Murphy: That's pretty chilling. Schools all around the country are going to hear that. What about educational programming, around specific ethnic and racial expenses? My son is in a public school and takes a class called african-american history. If you are running an african-american history class, could you be in violation of this order, of this executive order?
▶ 1:28:41Ms. Mcmahon: I'm not quite certain and I would like to look into it further and get back to you on that.
▶ 1:28:46Sen. Murphy: There's a possibility, there's a possibility you are saying that public schools that run african-american history classes, this is a class that has been taught in public schools for decades, could lose federal funding if they continue to teach african-american history?
▶ 1:29:03Ms. Mcmahon: No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I would like to look at these programs and fully understand the breadth of the executive order and get back to you on that.
▶ 1:29:14Sen. Murphy: I think you will have a lot of educators and a lot of principles and administrators scrambling right now. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:29:25Chair Cassidy: Senator murkowski.
▶ 1:29:28Sen. Murkowski: Welcome, Ms. mcmahon. You have had the privilege I know to come to alaska during your tenure at the spa. You came north. I know that you have had an opportunity to understand some of the challenges that we face with our geography.
▶ 1:29:57Sen. Murkowski: And I wanted to talk a little bit about -- about our public schools. There was a lot of discussion and I listened carefully to your comments about school choice. We would all love to have the benefits of greater school choice.
▶ 1:30:21Sen. Murkowski: In the anchorage public school system, my sons were able to attend a magnet school that was focused on an immersion program for spanish speaking. It was a great program for them. I go to the vast majority of my communities across the state and there is no choice. It is a small village. They have 500 people, it may have 1000 people. You have one school.
▶ 1:30:51Sen. Murkowski: And it's not as if there is an opportunity to go to another school because 82% of these communities are not connected. If you wanted to go to another school, you would have to figure out how you would fly to another village. For me, investment in our public education system is what I have been focused on.
▶ 1:31:16Sen. Murkowski: I had an opportunity to speak before our last association and school boards recently and received a standing ovation when I sent public funds for public schools, pretty simple. I want to ask you, whether you believe it is your primary role and responsibility as secretary to support and strengthen our nation's public schools?
▶ 1:31:38Ms. Mcmahon: I absolutely do believe our public schools are the bedrock of american education. They go back to the founding of our country. I think in the first constitution, there were actually sectors of each state that were set aside for the specific goal of public education. And education is certainly undisturbed to be important to what we are doing.
▶ 1:32:07Ms. Mcmahon: I understand, I think when I was in your office, we were talking about a school that I visited in a small island. This school was being funded by spa. This was when I was at sba. We were looking at the fact that there was no real community center and no blue holding the community together -- no glue holding the community together.
▶ 1:32:35Ms. Mcmahon: The children in k-12 often dropped out of school because they did not see the need or necessity to continue with education and would often wind up on the streets are not having jobs. I have not checked back with that school to see how it was going but I saw the commitment of that community to invest and make sure that the best education, this was a state-of-the-art school, built on this island.
▶ 1:32:55Ms. Mcmahon: When I pulled up in the boat in that village, there were mothers in the smoking hut that were cutting salmon to get ready for the winter. On the other side, there was this incredibly modern school that was being built. I think we have to invest our public education, if we could use public funds to help with tutoring in those issues and those instances where you don't have a choice to go to another school.
▶ 1:33:22Sen. Murkowski: And you quite possibly saw one of the few examples of good infrastructure. As we know, it's not just giving a good building. It's making sure you have teachers who are able to stay in a village that lacks a lot of resources and a lot of support. I want to pivot from that. I do want to underscore the emphasis on education and equity across america, including in the most rural of areas.
▶ 1:33:54Sen. Murkowski: I listen to a lot of the comments around here and it works if you are in the city. It does not work in my communities and I have an obligation to them. I want to ask you about local control here real lead. This is something that as republicans we have been talking about. Local control, local control, local control.
▶ 1:34:15Sen. Murkowski: And we have a lot of folks that are suggesting that now the public school curriculum should not include lessons in diversity, equity and inclusion. I want to focus on underthings. I understand that. We have the -- we included a number of provisions that were very specific in prohibiting any federal employee from mandating, directing or controlling estates , school districts or schools,
▶ 1:34:46Sen. Murkowski: Instructional content, academic standards and assessments, curricula or program of instruction. So, you might be in a situation where, as secretary, you may not condition the award of a grant on a school agreeing not to teach dei subjects. You might be in a position where you can't mandate they teach the principles of the U.S. constitution.
▶ 1:35:14Sen. Murkowski: You might be in a position where you can't prohibit teachers from discussing lgbtq issues with students. It is very clear. And again, it was something that we wanted to promote as republicans with the focus on local control. So, how do you balance what you have shared here before the committee with the requirements of the law that says the federal government is not the school board for our nation's schools?
▶ 1:35:45Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator. I don't know which of the senators this morning, said the department of educations does not educate any child. It's to be handled at the local level. There were pots and regular put in place to -- thoughts and regulations put in place to return. Senator, I must say, we have failed in our mission.
▶ 1:36:15Ms. Mcmahon: We are not delivering the kind of education that we need to deliver to our children. I believe the best education is closest to the child. The parents and school officials will understand the needs of those children and those communities that can best direct the education in those states. The states will be competitive. Governments have put in programs for school choice, etc. What kind of results are we seeing?
▶ 1:36:46Ms. Mcmahon: I was heartened by the state of louisiana and the stores that came out -- scores that came out that they had brought up their reading and math scores by a considerable percentage because they went back to basics. They were teaching children to read, write and do arithmetic.
▶ 1:37:07Ms. Mcmahon: I heard a superintendent of the louisiana school say he used everything from flashcards to ai to make sure the students were getting the basics of education. That's what we have to get back to.
▶ 1:37:22Ms. Mcmahon: Sounds like --
▶ 1:37:24Sen. Murkowski: Sounds like you are suggesting to change s are suggesting to change esa.
▶ 1:37:32Chair Cassidy: You are way over. Senator kaine.
▶ 1:37:36Sen. Kaine: I want to ask you about public service and loan forgiveness. The federal public service and loan forgiveness program was put in place during the bush administration and has been part of the law since 2007. What's your position on public service and loan forgiveness programs?
▶ 1:38:00Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you. It was good to visit you in your office, senator. Clearly, there are programs that have been passed by congress that do in fact grant loan forgiveness for public service. First responders, military, etc. We certainly should honor those programs.
▶ 1:38:20Ms. Mcmahon: And if we want stronger programs or more programs for loan forgiveness, congress should pass those programs and we would implement it.
▶ 1:38:31Sen. Kaine: So you are saying should you be confirmed --
▶ 1:38:34Ms. Mcmahon: Those that have been passed by congress, that's the law.
▶ 1:38:38Sen. Kaine: That's important. During the first trump administration, secretary devos and the part of education slow walked it. 7000 people over the course of four years were printed forgiveness -- granted forgiveness. A 3% acceptance rate.
▶ 1:39:00Sen. Kaine: During the biden, more than one million applicants were approved for forgiveness, as was appropriate given the congressional directive. And more than 33,000 virginia public servants were given public loan forgiveness.
▶ 1:39:17Sen. Kaine: If the doge brothers or some of the else tells you we don't like these programs and we don't wen yu to implement them, I can count on you to stand up to them and implement them?
▶ 1:39:31Ms. Mcmahon: Yes, because that's the law.
▶ 1:39:35Sen. Kaine: Thank you for that. If there's no department of education, who will enforce the individuals with disabilities and education act?
▶ 1:39:44Ms. Mcmahon: That is something that I would very much like to understand more and look into. When idea was originally set up, it was under the department of health education and welfare. After the department of education was established in 1980, it shifted over there. I'm not sure that it's not better served in hhs. But I don't know.
▶ 1:40:11Ms. Mcmahon: I haven't yet been able to be in and if I'm confirmed, it is of high priority to make sure that the students who are receiving disability loans -- disability funding, that that is not impacted. It is incredibly important. Let those programs continue to be funded.
▶ 1:40:30Sen. Kaine: My virginia parents who have children with disabilities are highly worried right now about the elimination of the department of education. Because the idea is about funding but it's also about enforcement. You would agree with me that there has to be vigorous enforcement of the requirements of I dea.
▶ 1:40:57Ms. Mcmahon: I agree that we need to make sure the funding gets to the students.
▶ 1:41:02Sen. Kaine: I'm not asking about funding, I'm asking about the enforcement.
▶ 1:41:06Ms. Mcmahon: The fundings have to have account ability.
▶ 1:41:08Sen. Kaine: What role do you think the federal government should play in addressing the national teacher shortage?
▶ 1:41:15Ms. Mcmahon: That's a really critical issue that we are not attracting and keeping our teachers. One thing I think we need to make sure of, I'm not sure it's a federal government policy. That really should be at the state level. How are we educating and teaching and training our teachers? How are we making sure that they have the supplies they need in their classrooms? We need to make sure that the funding is proper in the state so that they can support teachers.
▶ 1:41:45Sen. Kaine: In the first couple of weeks of the trump administration, here's what they have done with respect to the teacher shortage. They have canceled grants going to jurisdictions, including jurisdictions in virginia on teacher training programs that have been designed to reduce teacher shortages. There is also a national priority that I am sure you are familiar with.
▶ 1:42:07Sen. Kaine: A national board certification for teachers, that is giving teachers the ability to up their professional credentials and often local governments and occasionally the federal government will give an incentive, a financial incentive for upping your credentials. The trump administration canceled the grant that goes to the organization that administers national teacher certification.
▶ 1:42:29Sen. Kaine: I get it, that the primary responsibility for dealing with teacher shortages is that the state and local level. But the federal government has played an important role in this and their important -- there are important ongoing initiatives that this administration is canceling, suggesting they don't prioritize highly qualified -- having qualified teachers standing up in front of every classroom. My time has expired, thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:42:58Chair Cassidy: Thank you. Senator hawley.
▶ 1:43:01Sen. Hawley: The last four years have been absolutely fallacious for students on our college campuses. You had the last administration which issued federal rules, binding regulations that required our college campuses to put biological men into women's locker rooms.
▶ 1:43:27Sen. Hawley: You had multiple universities claiming the mandate, claiming the cover of the biden administration, forcing women to accept biological men and women's sports. You have seen young woman after young woman denied basic safety in their changing facilities, for heavens sake. Basic safety in their dorm rooms. Not able to play college sports. I'm delighted a federal court struck down this biden administration rule in january, just over a month ago.
▶ 1:43:55Sen. Hawley: And president trump issued a clear, strong, unequivocal executive order saying title ix will be enforced according to its terms, which is title ix protects women's sports and women on college campuses. No more men in women's locker rooms. This is a huge victory for common sense and the rule of law. A number of universities, including prominent ones, ones that love to call themselves elite, have said they will not follow that executive order.
▶ 1:44:25Sen. Hawley: They will keep having men in women's locker rooms and try to get men in women's sports. What can be done to ensure these colleges comply with the law and that women are safe on campus and that women are able to play sports without men interfering?
▶ 1:44:42Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly, I agree with you that I was very happy to see those restrictions on title ix vacated so that we are back to what title ix was originally established to do. That was put to protect sexual discrimination. Women should feel safe in their locker rooms. They shall feel -- should feel safe in their spaces.
▶ 1:45:11Ms. Mcmahon: They should not have to be exposed to men undressing in front of them. I heard a person the other day say they should hold the shower curtain in front of them so that they are not exposing themselves. That's not what we should be doing. We want to make sure that title ix, which is the law, is enforced. And we need to uphold that.
▶ 1:45:34Sen. Hawley: Will you investigate those universities that are not complying with title ix or the president's executive order? These universities are getting federal funds from this department, the department you will run if you are confirmed and I believe you will be. Will you investigate those universities and give them the ultimatum? They need to follow the law of title ix or the rules issued by this administration or no federal funding. Will you make sure the law is enforced?
▶ 1:46:03Ms. Mcmahon: Yes, we will make sure the law is enforced.
▶ 1:46:07Sen. Hawley: Very good.
▶ 1:46:11Chair Cassidy: The senator will suspend. The committee will come to order. Capitol police are asked to remove the individual. Members of the audience are reminded that disruptions will not be permitted while the committee conducts its business.
▶ 1:46:32Sen. Hawley: Don't worry. It's me, it's not you. Let me ask you about something else that has happened on our campuses, the wave of anti-semitism, particularly after october 7 with the attacks on israel. Shameful attacks on jewish students, jewish-american students and students overseas.
▶ 1:46:52Sen. Hawley: We have seen the most unbelievable pro-terrorist propaganda and universities taking federal money and getting federal funds and permitting violence in some instances, attacks on students on their campuses.
▶ 1:47:07Sen. Hawley: The president has issued an exec of order on january 29 on measures to combat anti-semitism and he directed the department of educations offices to civil rights to open title vi investigations into a number of universities including columbia, berkeley and northwestern. Will you enforce the law of title vi and ensure that jewish americans are safe on our campuses, for heaven's sake?
▶ 1:47:33Sen. Hawley: And that these crazy students who are committing crimes, breaking windows, smashing into buildings, trapping jewish students in libraries, will you make sure that this stops on college campuses that are getting federal tax money?
▶ 1:47:45Ms. Mcmahon: Absolutely, or face defunding.
▶ 1:47:49Sen. Hawley: Very good. For students who have come to this country on a student visa, that's a lot of people on our college campuses. For students here on a student visa, who have threatened their fellow students, threatened jewish students, who have supported a terrorist organization or organizations, who have broken a law by trespassing, vandalism or acts of violence against jewish students, will you see that there v there visas are revoked and they are sent home and not
▶ 1:48:22Sen. Hawley: Allowed to stay on our campuses, committing crimes and threatening our own students? Will you return to common sense -- return common sense to our campuses? >> [indiscernible]
▶ 1:48:37Chair Cassidy: Capitol police are asked to remove the individual from the hearing room. I will remind members of the audience that disruptions are not to be permitted while the committee conducts its business. Please show people the regard you would show yourself in this role. It may seem trite but the rudeness to squelch others is amazing.
▶ 1:49:10Chair Cassidy: Amazingly bad. With that comment, I will go to senator hassan.
▶ 1:49:15Sen. Hassan: I'm starting with a question I never thought I would have to ask and I will cut to the chase with you because you said you will uphold the law so I assume that if the president of the united states gives you a directive that breaks the law, you will instead do what you are legally required to do rather than his instruction.
▶ 1:49:36Ms. Mcmahon: The president will not ask me to do anything that's against the law.
▶ 1:49:42Sen. Hassan: The last month has told us it is quite likely that he may pray but I will take you at your word that you will enforce the law because you have said it several times today. Three weeks ago, the president unilaterally cut all federal grants by indefinite freeze. That is unconstitutional and illegal. Subsequent reporting indicates the president is planning to limit the department of education.
▶ 1:50:12Sen. Hassan: The department that you are interviewing today to lead. There is this little bit of -- the whole hearing feels surreal to me. It's almost like we are being subjected to a very elegant gaslight here. Because senator because sen -- senator hawley ad you and you talked about the need to enforce protection for jewish students on college campuses.
▶ 1:50:37Sen. Hassan: But the department where the enforcement would take place is the department of education and he wants to eliminate it and you say you will work with him to do that. Similarly, you have talked about the importance of apprenticeships and other kinds of career technical education. There is bipartisan support for that here. The republicans are in charge. We have bipartisan bill after bipartisan bill. We could go forward with it.
▶ 1:51:04Sen. Hassan: But there is this discussion as if we have not made any progress on the and there is somehow a partisan divide about that. I encourage you to look into that. I want to talk a little bit about why the department of education is so important. It plays a critical role in making sure students regardless of their race, zip code, or gender, have access to a quality public education.
▶ 1:51:33Sen. Hassan: It was established because congress recognized the country has a compelling interest in ensuring all of our kids become sufficient members of our workforce and society. New hampshire schools rely on federal funding of about $2000 per student to provide that public education. What would you say to parents in my state who are concerned about the president's attempt to cut all federal funding in new hampshire and eliminate the department of education?
▶ 1:52:00Sen. Hassan: Are you telling parents that students should lose access to trained teachers or school nurses?
▶ 1:52:08Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you senator, very much. Let me object to one point. And that is that the residents in the state of new hampshire should not be concerned federal funding will be removed from their schools. How they get that federal funding may change.
▶ 1:52:23Sen. Hassan: My time is limited. What department do you suggest would then administer that funding?
▶ 1:52:29Ms. Mcmahon: Which one?
▶ 1:52:31Sen. Hassan: The special education funding.
▶ 1:52:33Ms. Mcmahon: I think a could go back to hhs where it started. -- it could go back to hhs where it started.
▶ 1:52:41Sen. Hassan: You would put it in the hands of robert f. Kennedy, jr.. I want to talk about idea a little more. I want to turn to a specific issue regarding the president's plan to eliminate the department of education. What does the individuals with disabilities education act promise?
▶ 1:52:58Ms. Mcmahon: It promises that we will take care of the students and that they will be provided with assistance that they have in the school rooms and the technology they need. The assistance that you and I talked a little bit about.
▶ 1:53:14Sen. Hassan: Idea guarantees children with disabilities a free, appropriate education. What is -- supposed to be?
▶ 1:53:25Ms. Mcmahon: In terms of dollar amounts?
▶ 1:53:28Sen. Hassan: Yes.
▶ 1:53:29Ms. Mcmahon: I'm not sure.
▶ 1:53:31Sen. Hassan: 40% of the average expenditure. Do you know what the government actually does?
▶ 1:53:40Ms. Mcmahon: 14% to 18%.
▶ 1:53:42Sen. Hassan: 15%.
▶ 1:53:44Ms. Mcmahon: It's an appropriated amount from congress. Congress needs to appropriate it.
▶ 1:53:50Sen. Hassan: The republicans of commerce are proposing massive tax cuts for billionaires and they are trying to pay for it by massive cuts to education and other services. And just so you know, new hampshire would lose $60 million in idea funding if idea were eliminated. My time is almost up. I will say this. The reason the department of education came about in 1975, idea was passed in 1975.
▶ 1:54:21Sen. Hassan: In 1979 -- Mr. chair, I will take a second here. The people need to understand, people like my son, we talked about him. Before idea and the department of education existed, state and local schools did not educate these kids. They barred them from the classrooms. These kids were institutionalized and abused. There's a reason the department of education and idea exists. It's because educating kids with disabilities can be really hard and it takes the national commitment to get it done.
▶ 1:54:52Sen. Hassan: And that's why so many people are so concerned about this proposal to be limit the department. Because they think kids will once again be shoved aside and especially kids with disabilities. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:55:03Chair Cassidy: Thank you.
▶ 1:55:06Sen. Scott: One of the things you and I had the opportunity to talk about months ago, I actually believe that competition does in fact increase the production as well as improve the outcome, typically, whether it is the private sector or public education, I think competition is a key component to making things better and typically cheaper.
▶ 1:55:36Sen. Scott: I think charter schools is a classic example of that. Some of the most successful schools in the country, thing about success academies in new york city, where you have 83% minorities who are consistently ranked in the top five high schools in the state, because all kids have high potential learning. I think we need to make sure that every parent has a choice so that kids have the best chance at life.
▶ 1:56:05Sen. Scott: By the way, I think public schools are part of school choice from my perspective. A look schools, private schools, charter schools, homeschool, I want the parrot -- parents to make that choice. They care the most about their kids. Some people think it is the teachers unions, I think it's the parents. I would love to hear your thoughts.
▶ 1:56:24Ms. Mcmahon: I'm sorry.
▶ 1:56:27Sen. Scott: I'd love to hear your thoughts.
▶ 1:56:29Ms. Mcmahon: I agree that competition is very key. When I first started to take a look at education, I was reading the sunday morning paper and I saw that public schools in greenwich connecticut -- greenwich, connecticut were not meeting the requirements of no child left behind. I couldn't understand that.
▶ 1:56:54Ms. Mcmahon: One of the richest amenities in the country, how could there be this achievement gap between students from lower income areas to upper income areas? I tried to meet with the superintendent to talk about that article. I talked to the governor. The governor said if you're interested, let me introduce you to some people. I started talking to the folks were developing charter schools in connecticut.
▶ 1:57:23Ms. Mcmahon: I visited those schools and I saw how much better those children were performing. They were rapidly coming up to grade level reading and doing math. They were teaching differently. I thought this was a real opportunity, this was a charter school which was a public school. In the state of connecticut, it's not fully funded, the facility is not provided. It's a public-private partnership to make sure that these schools are offering choice and competitiveness.
▶ 1:57:50Ms. Mcmahon: So, we saw, it was clear evidence how those schools provided an opportunity for students to succeed.
▶ 1:58:02Sen. Scott: You have
▶ 1:58:09Sen. Scott: You -- never mind. I did not see that hammer you have there. Back in 2017, I started working on creating a definition in higher education for antisemitism.
▶ 1:58:26Sen. Scott: I thought we were seeing an uptick, having been raised in the deep south, I'm familiar with discrimination and the challenges that come with, unfortunately, the color of people's skin or their religious beliefs. If you look at the level of hate we have seen on college campuses toward our jewish students, I find it disgusting. I hope you will commit to investigating reports of antisemitism to the full extent of the law. Especially on college campuses.
▶ 1:58:54Ms. Mcmahon: Absolutely. There should be no discrimination of any form. I fully believe that there should be first amendment protection for discourse and for freedom of speech. But, when you become involved in activities that are actually endangering students, that is not what should happen. Those schools that accept federal funding that allow that to happen should face the funding.
▶ 1:59:21Sen. Scott: Thank you my last question, I know many of us on the right side of the aisle think dei is about power more than anything else. I think diversity is healthy for our country. It's the backbone and strength of our country.
▶ 1:59:43Sen. Scott: I think diversity equity and inclusion is a political movement that has little to do with that and more to do about gaining power and political position. President trump and I worked a lot on hbcus, historically black colleges and universities. He was able to take that funding to the highest level in the country. He was the first and only president to make that funding permanent. There is no doubt our country struggles with the issue of race.
▶ 2:00:11Sen. Scott: One of the shining examples of a merit-based system that helps those who do not have see the perspective that the american dream is for them. I hope you will commit to continuing the efforts of president trump on supporting historically black colleges and universities.
▶ 2:00:27Ms. Mcmahon: I met with the president of howard university a week ago and we sat and talked through a lot of the different programs and I was very impressed and I understand and I believe that I am an honorary board of regents member. That may not be the right description by virtue of if I'm confirmed as the secretary of education. I look forward to that.
▶ 2:00:54Sen. Scott: I'm done. >> I see senator hickenlooper jumped in front. Sen. hickenlooper. : I yielded. >> thank you for that sharing of the time.
▶ 2:01:17Sen. Scott: I will start out by acknowledging that today here with us, our representatives from the delaware state education association. I want to thank them and their members for being here in washington. Or in portly, for what they do for the students and families in the state of delaware. I want to thank you, miss mcmahon, for taking the time to meet with me on a myriad of issues. I appreciated your candor in our meeting.
▶ 2:01:43Sen. Scott: As I'm sitting here, watching the passion of the participants, of the members, it's clear that education is so important to this country. I am clear I'd about the challenges that we face in accomplishing the goal that all students are able to be prioritized. I shared my concerns about the call to abolish the department.
▶ 2:02:14Sen. Scott: I am concerned as a former candidate secretary myself -- cabinet secretary myself. Cabinet secretary's have the influence, power and responsibility to share what is good, bad and wrong. Understand waiting until you get into a position to figure some things out. But there are core, basic things like do we have the confusion that people have over this executive order on diversity? They are scared.
▶ 2:02:44Sen. Scott: The fact that school kids are afraid to come to school, maybe because of their status. We are hearing all kinds of stories. That's why this hearing is so important and this position is so important. I'm a little confused because part of the reason why it was created was because in hew, children were buried into these big departments.
▶ 2:03:11Sen. Scott: Why do you think that a department that is focused and that is dealing with children, whether it is civil rights, disability, providing the checks and balances, why do you think that it's better to stick the functions of dealing with children with disabilities in a huge department that will not have the same priority?
▶ 2:03:33Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you, senator, for that question. The bottom line is because it's not working. The department of education was set up in 1980 and since that time, we have spent almost $1 trillion and we have watched our performance scores continue to go down. I do believe it is the responsibility to make sure our children have equal access to excellent education. I think that is best handled at the state level, closest to the states.
▶ 2:04:03Ms. Mcmahon: Working with state administrators, teachers, parents, who should have input into their curriculum.
▶ 2:04:10Sen. Rochester: I have two minutes. Do you believe any school benefiting from taxpayer dollars should be required to follow federal civil rights laws?
▶ 2:04:22Ms. Mcmahon: Schools should be required to follow the laws.
▶ 2:04:30Sen. Rochester: That's good. Private schools should not be able to turn away a student with a disability or a student based on their religion, ethnicity or race.
▶ 2:04:41Ms. Mcmahon: Private schools are not taking federal dollars. So, they have the ability to say -- if they do not believe --
▶ 2:04:50Sen. Rochester: If they receive them, they should not.
▶ 2:04:53Ms. Mcmahon: If they believe they cannot best serve that student and they are not taking federal dollars, they can choose not to accept that student.
▶ 2:05:03Sen. Rochester: If private schools take federal dollars, can they turn away a child based on a disability or religion or race?
▶ 2:05:10Ms. Mcmahon: I think there are also some public schools were saying they don't --
▶ 2:05:15Sen. Rochester: It's really just a yes or no.
▶ 2:05:18Ms. Mcmahon: No, it's not.
▶ 2:05:19Sen. Rochester: If you want to follow-up up, I'm kind of running out of time.
▶ 2:05:23Ms. Mcmahon: I would look forward to following up with you to discuss that.
▶ 2:05:27Sen. Rochester: This is one of the big concerns that we hear about. Also, I believe that as a country, we have benefited from checks and balances, it's a hallmark. If you are concerned, how would you defend the rights of all students in state or local governments who are unable or will not address violations of students rights? How will you intervene if a student is being bullied or harassed on the basis of race or disability?
▶ 2:05:55Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly, civil writes all the rights of everyone. So, we don't want to make sure -- we want to make sure that our schools -- bullying should not happen anywhere. No child should be made to feel uncomfortable. But the department of education does not control that.
▶ 2:06:12Sen. Rochester: When we talked, you mentioned the department of justice. Would you move this to the department of justice?
▶ 2:06:21Ms. Mcmahon: One of the things we talked about as I said this morning is I think there might be more appropriate places. Ocr, is better served in the department of justice where they have civil rights attorneys as well. But I don't know those things yet. If I'm confirmed, I look forward to getting in and digesting and understanding where all of these particular aspects need to fit you best serve our students. That's the goal. You can protect our students.
▶ 2:06:51Sen. Rochester: I look forward to following up. You can understand, there's a lot of distrust based on people's motivations in just the past few weeks. I think that's why you are seeing all of what you are seeing in this audience in terms of participation of the folks here. This is important. Our students are important, as you know.
▶ 2:07:17Sen. Rochester: So -- I really hope that this administration and that you will recognize that there are students, there are teachers, there are parents that need the support and the help. And we hope that you will continue with your support of hbcus. I yield back. >> good morning, miss mcmahon.
▶ 2:07:48Sen. Rochester: Good to see you.
▶ 2:07:48Ms. Mcmahon: Good to see you too. >> why speak to youth, I typically talk about the three pillars of my life. Faith, family and education. And thanks to a strong faith, a loving family and the public -- educators in my life, I was a first edge life, I was a first e generation college kid who got to live my dream. This education thing is so important to all of us on both sides of the dais.
▶ 2:08:21Ms. Mcmahon: I raised four kids in public schools. Unfortunately, I've seen the deterioration of the education system. And again, we have the most incredible teachers and coaches back home and I am grateful for all of them. But I think we would all agree that we are going in the wrong direction. Big picture, what would be your top priorities? How do we change this?
▶ 2:08:41Ms. Mcmahon: The president has given a very clear directive, that he would like to look in totality at the apartment of education and believes that the bureaucracy on it should be close. That we should return education to our states. That the best education is closest to the kids.
▶ 2:09:02Ms. Mcmahon: And that we should work with our local schools, with our superintendents, with our parents to make sure that the education that our students are getting are the ones that is best for them. It's not one-size-fits-all education policy throughout the country. Governors have taken great strides in putting in -- implementing school choice and making sure that schools have the funding that they need. And we have seen public education in those states actually improve.
▶ 2:09:31Ms. Mcmahon: There have been studies to show that. And so, I am very hopeful that we will get back to the basics of education, so that our children can read when they leave third grade. And that eighth-grade students can do math at an eighth-grade efficiency. Today, one third of high school students can read proficiently. That means two thirds can't. We are failing our students. And the department of education.
▶ 2:09:59Ms. Mcmahon: What we are doing today is not working and we need to change it. >> thank you. Ms. mcmahon, should voice, biological boys be allowed to compete against girls in sports?
▶ 2:10:10Ms. Mcmahon: I did not believe biological boys should be allowed to compete against girls in sports. I think now, certainly, not only have the people spoken, because that was something president trump ran very hard on, but also the court has spoken. >> Ms. mcmahon I feel like antisemitism has become an epidemic in our universities.
▶ 2:10:39Ms. Mcmahon: Would you agree to evaluate the progress of universities on this issues? -- these issues?
▶ 2:10:44Ms. Mcmahon: I would parade I look forward to working with you and other members of the committee on such commission. >> let's talk about workforce and pell grant's for a second. We can't keep doing what we are doing. The average starting salary for graduates in community colleges and technical colleges back home is higher than four year universities. Their debt is closer to zero.
▶ 2:11:11Ms. Mcmahon: What would you speak to as far as the flexibility of pell grant s?
▶ 2:11:17Ms. Mcmahon: I think workforce pell grant or something that could simulate -- stimulate our economy. Provide an opportunity for those who want to participate in skill-based learning. Have the opportunity for short-term certificates of pell grant's, that would get those students into the workplace faster if they want to be electricians, hvac developers. >> and apprenticeships as well.
▶ 2:11:44Ms. Mcmahon: Apprenticeships, internships, all of that. In the first trump administration, I was part of, with sba and working the deferment of labor, making sure there were more apprenticeship programs across the country because those are very vital to the growth of not only our economy but our businesses in general. >> thank you, miss mcmahon. I appreciate your answers and look forward to supporting you. Again, education is so important to all of us.
▶ 2:12:14Ms. Mcmahon: To live the american dream, we need a strong education system and I know you are committed to that as well. Mr. chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:12:20Chair Cassidy: Senator hickenlooper.
▶ 2:12:23Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you. I thought when you were talking to senator rochester, bullying shouldn't happen anywhere, it's absolutely true. It shouldn't happen in the schools, it shouldn't happen in government.
▶ 2:12:52Sen. Hickenlooper: I want to talk a little bit about history and the teaching of history. I used to talk about topo philia, the love of place. I believe it is a basic building block of economic development and peoples if action for a place. That affection comes largely through the teaching of the history of that part of your state or county that gets broken down.
▶ 2:13:23Sen. Hickenlooper: But I think teaching every part of our history is important. In colorado, some of the worst parts of our history, governor ralph carr, a republican governor who was one of the few western governors who were putting large tension studies together -- detention facilities together for the japanese during world war ii.
▶ 2:13:49Sen. Hickenlooper: He said we will not support that but any japanese people who want to come should come live in colorado and live freely. Colorado volunteers slaughtered almost -- children. You mentioned the importance of teaching true history. I want to make sure we agree on the teaching of all of it, positive and negative.
▶ 2:14:16Sen. Hickenlooper: As an entrepreneur, you learn more from your mistakes than from what you do right. And I think making sure we don't gloss over the troubling parts of our history, that we are not letting that slip behind us.
▶ 2:14:30Ms. Mcmahon: C1 Ms. mcmahon I do agree that we should teach the true history. Because we don't learn unless we recognize our mistakes. I will say the department of education does not establish curriculum, but that is handled at the state level. Clearly, I am in favor of our history being taught exactly as it happened.
▶ 2:14:55Sen. Hickenlooper: I appreciate that. A lot of people don't. So it's good to get that on the record. We talked a little bit about apprenticeships and the importance of an into an ships -- of apprenticeships. Almost two thirds of our kids cannot read proficiently, it is a disgrace that we should all not accept. As you recognized, it's not that we don't have good teachers. I think we have great teachers in every state.
▶ 2:15:26Sen. Hickenlooper: It's a very powerful statistic that in almost every survey, parents think the school systems are broken except there's. They think their school is pretty good. I think that is a reflection of the quality of teachers we have. This notion that everybody should go to college, I think, is prevailing and persistent -- prevail and and persistent. You have talked about the importance of alternative career pathways. We discussed this.
▶ 2:15:53Sen. Hickenlooper: One of the major issues we hear on trying to push apprenticeships, not just trades and adult into ships, but 16, 17, 18-year-olds, while they are in high school, go and work a couple days a week, could be a law firm, anywhere. But learn what a job place looks like, learning things that might them more successful. One of the problems is that type of apprenticeship, so many of the academic advisors are just focused on that four-year college track.
▶ 2:16:24Sen. Hickenlooper: And that is what the parents are expecting. They may not even realize what apprenticeships are around there. What can you do as secretary of education to share with high schools across america that these other alternative pathways are available?
▶ 2:16:39Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly. When I ran for the senate in the state of connecticut, I ran twice, and didn't win. But I always talked about how we needed skills in our country that we did not have the trades that we need to have today. I also talked about how parents are encouraging their children only to go to college, and not necessarily recognizing that there are other avenues that those children can pursue.
▶ 2:17:09Ms. Mcmahon: I clearly was a parent who was pushing both my children to go to college. But I realized today that there are other opportunities for students to succeed and enter into a pathway that they will be successful in their lives. I think apprenticeships, internships, working the public private sector to make sure that we have our curriculum that is designed for the needs of the communities and business, I think that is incredibly important.
▶ 2:17:36Ms. Mcmahon: I just -- one of the things that we have done at sacred heart university, I sit on the board of education, one of the needs of the commute -- what are the needs of the community and how can the curriculum be structured to satisfy that need. That's critically important.
▶ 2:17:49Sen. Hickenlooper: We are out of time. I've got millions of more questions. Maybe we will continue that discussion. I appreciate you being open about not wanting to end the department of education completely, and you are willing to put pell grant's on a larger scale. Thank you.
▶ 2:18:05Chair Cassidy: Senator banks.
▶ 2:18:07Sen. Vance: Just as a side note -- simple bank's just as a side note, I am struck by the protesters in the room. A number of us have told us that they are teachers.
▶ 2:18:21Sen. Vance: Can you imagine them teaching our kids across america and act like children with outbursts, and try to prevent us from doing our jobs to move you forward to do the importantfor me, that ist do the importantfor me, that isl about. I have three daughters who are in grade school and public schools. And I want to get politics out of them classroom.
▶ 2:18:47Sen. Vance: I want political flags and political statements and ideologies out of the classroom. I want teachers to teach our kids and prepare them for the jobs of the future. And I'm very intrigued with what president trump is talking about in dismantling the federal department of education. I served in the statehouse. And the indiana state constitution devotes a number of chapters to educating our kids.
▶ 2:19:13Sen. Vance: The last time I checked, the federal constitution does not say a single thing about education, because our founders and their wisdom recognize that is the role of the state. This is about an attitude, an attitude of empowering teachers and schools of him -- and moms and dads to give our kids the best chance they can have.
▶ 2:19:34Sen. Vance: I know that you agree with this, but I'm going to ask anyway, can't the state of indiana do better of a job of spending dollars on education rather than bureaucrats in washington, D.C.?
▶ 2:19:45Ms. Mcmahon: I believe that to be true, yes. That is definitely what the president believes is well. I will be repetitive that education is best handled closest to the child, to understand what that child needs and what the community needs. And working with parents, parental rights are so important in educating our children. I definitely believe it should be returned to the states.
▶ 2:20:08Sen. Banks: Speaking of wasting money, the biden department of education allocated over $1 billion in grants toward diversity, equity and inclusion programs. That included $4 million toward a open culturally responsive computer science camp for high schoolers." $1 million to train elementary teachers in iowa on "equity centered education." $38,000 for a one-day session with a open equity -- with a
▶ 2:20:40Sen. Banks: "equity consultant in michigan." countless dollars toward race-based hiring, which is unconstitutional and unlawful. No you commit to ending all racial discrimination programming at the department of education?
▶ 2:20:53Ms. Mcmahon: That will be my goal. I look for to working with you and other members of the committee as well, and with congress, to make sure that we can take the ideology, if you will, out of education, and focus on actually teaching our students to read and write, and to do arithmetic. Because they cannot be successful if they cannot do the basics.
▶ 2:21:16Sen. Banks: Some of my colleagues have talked about the rise of anti-semitism on college campuses. I think one of the motivators of that is money that flows from adversarial foreign countries, like china and other countries with an anti-american agenda that are donated to many of our colleges and universities in the united states of america.
▶ 2:21:39Sen. Banks: It turns out that the data -- that the department of education plays a key role in reporting and making those foreign during -- foreign donations transparent. I want to banned them altogether. Have you thought about what other steps we can take to eliminate foreign influences, especially anti-american influences on our college campuses?
▶ 2:22:04Ms. Mcmahon: I think what we have seen is a lack of transparency of where the money comes from, how much, and what it is used for when it could -- when it gets to colleges. I think there has to be more transparency in tracking that money.
▶ 2:22:17Sen. Banks: And I hope that -- I saw what president trump did in his first term and the four years of tightening many of the donations and blocking them, making them transparent. Then I served on the education committee in the house for eight years. There was no attention paid to this under president biden.
▶ 2:22:44Sen. Banks: Chinese communist party dollars flowing to colleges and universities that are no longer reported, made transparent. I hope -- I know that will be a big priority of yours because we talked about it. I want to do everything I can to help you to lock it in. The public should know that adversaries of the united states of america are giving money to universities they are sending their kids to. You have my full support and look forward to working with you.
▶ 2:23:06Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you.
▶ 2:23:07Chair Cassidy: Senator markey.
▶ 2:23:09Sen. Markey: Thank you. Yesterday, president trump said that he would like the department of education to be closed immediately. He called the department a big con job. Education funding helps us work towards a country where every student can go to their school knowing that they will get the same education as the family that can afford private school.
▶ 2:23:41Sen. Markey: Public school is not a con job. It's a quality for every student, regardless of income. At helps guarantee that every student, including the 26 million low income students, the 10 million world, 5 million english-language learners, 7 million disabled students, and one million homeless can go to public school knowing they have the same opportunity as every other student.
▶ 2:24:09Sen. Markey: Trump's crusade to abolish the department of education and "root out waste and fraud and corruption" for cuts to public schools is an attack on every public school student. Parent, teacher, administrator, and school worker in this country.
▶ 2:24:37Sen. Markey: It is code for cuts to public education for all of those students. I have here the text of a bill I have been working on. The no cuts to public schools act. This bill would guarantee that federal funding to public schools could not be cut during the length of president trump's administration. Ms.
▶ 2:25:02Sen. Markey: Mcmahon, can you commit today to not cutting funding for public schools in this country?
▶ 2:25:10Ms. Mcmahon: Well, certainly what I will commit to is that funding for schools is appropriated by congress. And that funding should continue. Congress will continue to pass those laws. The department of education is not doing that.
▶ 2:25:25Sen. Markey: So will you oppose any cuts to public education? Yes or no?
▶ 2:25:31Ms. Mcmahon: The president is not saying we should cut funding to public education.
▶ 2:25:36Sen. Markey: Yes, he is.
▶ 2:25:37Ms. Mcmahon: He is simply saying -- I would disagree with you.
▶ 2:25:41Sen. Markey: Elon musk announced he would cut $900 million from the department of education. He stood right next to trump and made that very clear. The answer I'm looking for by the way is yes, I will fight to make sure that public funding is not cut, because that announcement was just made, the $900 million cut.
▶ 2:26:06Sen. Markey: We know that is just a down payment to gut the education of every public school student in america. By the way, to find the billions of dollars that are going to be needed for the tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires in our country. They have to go to the department of education. They have to go to clean air and clean water. They have to go to medicaid. They have to go to the affordable care act. They have to go to all of the programs that they are calling waste, fraud, and corruption.
▶ 2:26:35Sen. Markey: That is another way of saying the programs that help the poor and the sick and the elderly, the disabled, in our society. That is what we are talking about. Because they want all of these programs gutted to find the funding for the tax breaks. Doge, I does it is rumbling through the department of education, stands for department of getting education. They are inside looking at it, $900 billion is the down payment. Ms.
▶ 2:27:02Sen. Markey: Mcmahon, can you commit today to fight so that not one dollar from public schools goes toward paying for tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires?
▶ 2:27:12Ms. Mcmahon: That was certainly a broad view of what is going on right now today. Trying to find waste fraud and abuse. Those groups that are in the department of education, from my understanding, have looked at competitive contracts that are bidding. And let's see where that money is going. I'm not there -- if I may, senator. You have asked me a question, I would like the opportunity to answer.
▶ 2:27:39Sen. Markey: What they are doing is they announced they cuts. Then they are going to find where it is. It's all backwards. Again, we know what the plot is. Ultimately, the answer I'm looking for is a yes, because if even one dollar flows away from an educator or student towards a billionaire tax break, that will be immoral in our country. Immoral. These kids deserve the funding which they are receiving.
▶ 2:28:11Sen. Markey: Should be ashamed that they are working -- donald trump and elon musk should be ashamed that they are going against this. 90% of disabled -- of students with disabilities go to public schools. Trump and musk want to take from those students to give to billionaires. That is immoral, it's wrong, it is unjust and we will fight at every step of the way thank you.
▶ 2:28:39Chair Cassidy: Thank you. Senator moody.
▶ 2:28:43Sen. Moody: Hello, it's great to be with you. Thank you for joining us today. I would like for you to have some time to answer some questions. Wouldn't that be unique? I'm wondering, one of my very first important questions is, is it harder to sit composed and calm and focused among a bunch of wwe wrestlers, or is it harder to sit in this hearing with people hopping up and yelling at you all the time?
▶ 2:29:12Ms. Mcmahon: I can stay composed and focused in either environment. [laughter]
▶ 2:29:23Sen. Moody: As you know, the united states department of education provides more than $120 billion in grants. And much of that flows through to our public university systems. The higher education act makes a condition for higher education to receive a single dollar of that money, that higher education institution has to be accredited. That is not by the department of education. They have delegated that to a private entity, persons that are not accountable to voters, are not accountable to the present -- president.
▶ 2:29:54Sen. Moody: And they decide who is accredited. Which institution actually is eligible to get that money. In florida, we have had the experience that our post secondary institutional accreditor, the southern association of colleges and schools commission on colleges, has decided that it will threaten that accreditation, meaning threaten our federal funding if we even suggest that may a former policy leader, lawmaker, conservative, might go
▶ 2:30:27Sen. Moody: Into leadership at a university. For one of my dear friends, senator scott, former governor scott, had suggested he was going to go on campus and speak about hazing. Seems pretty expected, as a parent, I would want that. And our accreditation was threatened. Even in north carolina when they wanted to institute a policy focused -- excuse me, a program focused on ideological diversity, there accreditation was threatened.
▶ 2:30:57Sen. Moody: As attorney general of florida, I sued. I think there is a constitutional problem with the department of education delegating that authority over a private organization that dictates whether someone can get federal funding, and tries to insert their own preferences and policies down into the education policies of a state, and force it on our educational institutions. I wanted to talk to you about that today. I don't think it is just frustrating florida.
▶ 2:31:26Sen. Moody: Yes, we were one of the first states to stand up and try to stop that. But a lot of the things you are hearing, especially with the nominees, are we are trying to stop unelected bureaucrats or unelected people in these private organizations that have been getting a lot of authority or a lot of federal money, pushing policies into the states. We don't that's right. I wanted to talk to you. Do you think that's right?
▶ 2:31:51Ms. Mcmahon: No, I don't think that's right.
▶ 2:31:53Sen. Moody: And if you are confirmed, which I expect that you will be and I hope you are, I'm very impressed not only with your educational participation in your own state, but your managerial experience. I think we need that right now. Will you commit that you will look into the regulations and guidance documents that relate to higher education institutions, being able to change their accreditors?
▶ 2:32:16Ms. Mcmahon: Yes, definitely. I look forward to working with you on that. There have been issues raised about these five to seven accreditors that are the ones that are deciding these fates today. I think that needs to have a broad overview and review.
▶ 2:32:30Sen. Moody: It may be that we have to look at the accreditation process, and as congress, we might need to amend the higher education act to make them more accountable. But I do believe, and we are still in litigation, I say we, I'm trying to change hats now as senator moody, but florida is still in litigation. About this issue.
▶ 2:32:54Sen. Moody: Because I do think it is a constitutional problem for an agency to delegate that kind of authority over to a private organization. And I think a lot of that delegation is where you are seeing states getting frustrated, people getting frustrated, because in these agencies and private organizations, you are seeing many ideological agenda, a policy driven agenda, and people who are willing to implement it, whether they have the authority or not.
▶ 2:33:22Sen. Moody: I believe that is where you are seeing so much frustration and why you saw such an overwhelming expectation that this president changed things. I am looking forward to that.
▶ 2:33:36Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you very much.
▶ 2:33:37Chair Cassidy: Thank you, senator moody. Now it is senator kim's turn.
▶ 2:33:44Sen. Kim: Thank you, chairman. Thank you for coming before us. I have heard a couple times you mentioned that you believe congress would need to be involved if there is an effort to abolish the department of education.
▶ 2:33:56Ms. Mcmahon: Correct.
▶ 2:33:58Sen. Kim: Do you know if president trump shares that sentiment?
▶ 2:34:01Ms. Mcmahon: I have heard president trump last couple of weeks, in conjunction with his fervor, to shutdown the bureaucracy of the department of education, he has stated he will work with congress to make that happen.
▶ 2:34:18Sen. Kim: Do you know if elon musk have you had conversations with him about the department of education?
▶ 2:34:20Ms. Mcmahon: I have not.
▶ 2:34:21Sen. Kim: Why I raise this is I just came from another hearing that was talking about foreign assistance, usaid. That is another element of our federal government that was codified by congress and we seen any effort there to dismantle it. Not fully abolish it, but dismantle it down to about 600 people. Gut everything under the state department.
▶ 2:34:48Sen. Kim: I wanted to ask you, if something like that was proposed by the trump administration for the department of education, does that have to come to congress?
▶ 2:34:56Ms. Mcmahon: Certainly there are departments that I think -- that I believe, the department of education by statute, and those have to be looked at.
▶ 2:35:04Sen. Kim: What elements of the department of education are those that are protected by the statute?
▶ 2:35:08Ms. Mcmahon: I believe idea is. I would like to discuss that, discuss it more fully with you.
▶ 2:35:19Sen. Kim: For those that are not codified by statute, you are saying those are ones the executive branch can do as they please?
▶ 2:35:23Ms. Mcmahon: I think I would like to look into that more.
▶ 2:35:27Sen. Kim: Why I mention this as well is, just in the first couple weeks here, we had a lot of conversation about the surge of anti-semitism, our strong support, and make sure we are protecting students from that type of harassment, from that type of intimidation. Absolutely something we need to stand against in terms of anti-semitism.
▶ 2:35:49Sen. Kim: I was alarmed, but we ended up seeing is multiple attorneys and staff members of the department's office of civil rights have been placed on administrative leave, with no notice, no explanation. Some of them were in the process of investigating cases directly related to antisemitic harassment. I guess I wanted to ask you, is that something you would support? Do you think that is the right action we should be taking, that we see such a surge in anti-semitism?
▶ 2:36:18Ms. Mcmahon: I know it is not a great comfort for me to say this morning that I am not yet confirmed and have not been in the department. I don't know about all of the administrative people that have been put on leave. I want to look into that. I want to understand it. I want to assist the department. I can't do that unless I am confirmed. But I would certainly be willing to come back to you with a more specific answer.
▶ 2:36:45Sen. Kim: Does that concern you at all if you are confirmed, when you make that a priority to go and see whether or not this will impact our ability to respond to anti-semitism?
▶ 2:36:58Ms. Mcmahon: I would want to make sure that we have everything that we need to have in place to protect our students on campuses.
▶ 2:37:07Sen. Kim: One thing that we are having this debate on in congress is about this. What we have seen is republicans have called for a 25% cut in the budget of the office of civil rights. Is that something you would support?
▶ 2:37:25Ms. Mcmahon: I would want to see exactly what that impact is going to be and understand it.
▶ 2:37:27Sen. Kim: I guess I'm frustrated because I feel like this is such a clear place where we can say, yes, we want to make sure we have as much resources as possible to be able to fight anti-semitism, to make sure we are addressing these needs. When we see a surgeon anti-semitism, of course we would want a surge in resources to focus on the. I wanted to raise that.
▶ 2:37:54Sen. Kim: This whole debate we are having now, it feels like it is untethered from the reality on the ground. And I urge you, if you are confirmed, that we are understanding the human impact of the problems that are here. I have got two little boys, and I just had their parent-teacher conference.
▶ 2:38:14Sen. Kim: Yes, we talked through the performance of my kids, the data, the institute for education sciences, we are seeing $900 million cuts coming from elon muska and his team. I raise this, the reason why teachers are concerned right now is not about their own salaries and careers. When they talk to me, they talk about the kids. They talk about the kids.
▶ 2:38:40Sen. Kim: I find that to be so powerful when these teachers, they are saying, I'm not asking about my own ceer. I'm asking about the kids. As you proceed, just remember that. Parents are very scared right now. I yield back.
▶ 2:38:58Chair Cassidy: Thank you, senator kim. Senator alsobrooks.
▶ 2:39:02Sen. Alsobrooks: I would like to begin my remarks, thank you so much, Ms. mcmahon for being here today. I would like to begin and follow what my colleague said and address what I -- regard as disparaging comments. I would like to say first, regarding the educators who have come here today, and in the same vein as senator kim, the educators who are here, my colleague referred to them as these people.
▶ 2:39:28Sen. Alsobrooks: And said who would want to be taught by these people, the passionate educators who have come here today, not on behalf of themselves, they are here on behalf of our children and I want to address how shameful it was to see, who would want to be taught by them? They are exactly the kind of people who we want teaching our children. The question I have for you today, I know your parents were civil servants. You recognize the importance that they bring to their work. The care and concern they bring to their work.
▶ 2:39:57Sen. Alsobrooks: And I have been very concerned regarding the treatment of many of our civil servants, those especially in the department of education. You may know that last night, a number of them were laid off with 15 minutes to have their computers turned off, access to it, just treated really horribly. The question I have for you, because one of my constituents on a town hall I hosted last night with 17,000 marylanders, said they are working in a culture of fear at the department.
▶ 2:40:27Sen. Alsobrooks: And that civil servants at the department don't know who will be fired next, have little guidance and feel like they can't do their jobs, and they care very much about the work they are doing. How will you address the culture of fear in an environment where civil servants, both democrats and republicans who are working there, are feeling undervalued and attacked by this administration?
▶ 2:40:48Ms. Mcmahon: Thank you very much for that question. It is always difficult to downsize. It is always difficult to restructure and reorganize. I have face that in the business world. You know that you do impact people's lives. At this point, I know there are people being placed on administrative leave, which means they are still receiving full benefits and salary while their jobs are being looked at.
▶ 2:41:15Ms. Mcmahon: And how the department is being evaluated overall. I think people should always be treated with respect and with humility. And I would hope that is what is going on within the department of education. I'm not there in person to see that yet. But it was certainly something I would strive to do, in any reorganization that we would take.
▶ 2:41:37Sen. Alsobrooks: Ok. I would also like to ask you, regarding the president's targeting of legally binding collective bargaining agreements. He has really targeted those to ask you whether you will commit to abiding by the agreement and -- in upholding civil service employment protections?
▶ 2:41:57Ms. Mcmahon: I will certainly commit to working with you, and to looking into those issues, if I am confirmed to be the secretary of education.
▶ 2:42:05Sen. Alsobrooks: And also to ask you whether you will commit to ensuring that federal workers with disabilities, many of them are very concerned about whether they will continue to have reasonable accommodations as required by law.
▶ 2:42:19Ms. Mcmahon: As required by law is the key phrase there. Yes.
▶ 2:42:24Sen. Alsobrooks: Ok. In the same vein, there are some who are concerned about being forced to reapply for accommodations. These are people who have had those accommodations given to them, and they are being told now that they must reapply for those accommodations with their supervisors. Will you commit that the department's civil servants with disabilities will have their reasonable accommodations honored without interference or delay?
▶ 2:42:49Ms. Mcmahon: I will certainly commit, if I am confirmed, to look into all of those and to get back to you.
▶ 2:42:56Sen. Alsobrooks: Ok. Finally, I would like to ask you regarding the freezing of funds. If you are confirmed, would you support any directive from the president to freeze funds that have been appropriated by congress, including funds that students and families rely on to pay for college?
▶ 2:43:19Ms. Mcmahon: If they have been appropriate by congress, those funds should be disseminated.
▶ 2:43:21Sen. Alsobrooks: So you would block any directive, you would not adhere to any directive, including some of our hbcu's, in my state, you would not interfere with the freezing of those funds?
▶ 2:43:32Ms. Mcmahon: I commit to you that I will look into every single one of those programs so that I can get back to you and say, this is what I have found, this is what I have discovered, this is what the action that is being taken in defense of it or for it. I would want to be very inclusive with you on that regard.
▶ 2:43:51Sen. Alsobrooks: Final question, I have nine seconds, title I, I know you said you support it. If the department of education is dismantled, what will you do to protect the students who are disadvantaged and does propped -- and impoverished?
▶ 2:44:05Ms. Mcmahon: Title I funds are appropriated by congress. They flow directly to the states today. They are deployed to the district spear the department of education is not really involved in that distribution.
▶ 2:44:17Sen. Alsobrooks: Thank you so much.
▶ 2:44:20Chair Cassidy: Thank you, senator alsobrooks. Senator sanders.
▶ 2:44:23Sen. Sanders: Thank you you. I ask unanimous consent to enter 18 letters opposing Ms. mccann a secretary of education.
▶ 2:44:32Chair Cassidy: So ordered. I will now conclude, but let me first say that the capitol police are requesting the audience remain seated until Ms. mcmahon leaves. So just to first say that. Thank you very much for being here. You have handled yourself extremely well. I now ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record 55 letters of support for Ms. mcmahon's nomination. This concludes our hearing.
▶ 2:44:59Chair Cassidy: For any senators who wish to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Once more, audience, please stay seated until Ms. mcmahon leaves. Thank you.