▶ 0:16:50Chair Cruz: Senate committee on commerce, science, and transportation will come to order. I want to congratulate each of the nominees. Michael kratsios and mark meador. Congress has charged the ost p and the ftc, duties that affect the lives of many americans. The ostp advises the president on federal science and technology policy.
▶ 0:17:19Chair Cruz: Michael kratsios has a distinguished track record of ensuring america leads globally in emerging technologies. His previous tenure of chief technology officer during the first trump administration was advanced -- marked by efforts to advance quantum computing and 5g technology. The story of the 21st century will be written by whichever nation can innovate the fastest.
▶ 0:17:46Chair Cruz: This generation space race is unfolding with technologies invisible to the naked eye with the winners and the losers will be separated by nano meters. What was once science-fiction is now crucial to maintaining the united states position as the world's leading economy.
▶ 0:18:05Chair Cruz: Technologies like this new chip I hold in the palm of my hand are unlocking a new era of computing that will transform industries from health-care to energy, solving problems today's computers cannot. I will note microsoft tells me this chip is worth $1 billion so I very much hope I do not drop it.
▶ 0:18:32Chair Cruz: My current employer is judgment proof and $36 trillion in debt. This breakthrough is led by an american company and harnesses a new kind of power. I would like to thank senator blackburn who is advancing a reauthorization quantum computing research programs for her leadership on this.
▶ 0:18:56Chair Cruz: Advancements in quantum computing, ai, and cybersecurity will drive innovation, protect the nation come and create new industries. Let me say a few words about the ftc, which protects american consumers from unfair business practices and anti-competitive behavior. Mark meador is well compared to service commissioner and should be confirmed. I look forward to hearing he would pursue the ftc mission with impartiality and with respect for the rule of law.
▶ 0:19:29Chair Cruz: As a former director of the office of policy planning at the ftc, I have deep request for that -- I have a deep respect for the dedicated professionals within the agency. I saw how principled leadership can benefit free enterprise and economic opportunity. I worry today's ftc is a far cry from the agency I once knew.
▶ 0:19:51Chair Cruz: For four years under lien upon the ftc prioritized -- under lena kahn the ftc prioritized activism in weaponized's authority in defiance of congressional intent. The ftc has abused its enforcement powers to target political opponents of the biden administration. It has attempted to impose competition rulemakings across entire industries, exceeding its legal mandate.
▶ 0:20:23Chair Cruz: It has destroyed documents, obstructing congressional oversight and congressional litigation and has collaborated with european regulators to apply foreign laws that put american tech companies at a competitive disadvantage. It has sought to regulate artificial intelligence in a way that could chill free speech and it has attempted to impose sweeping data privacy and security mandates without congressional approval.
▶ 0:20:51Chair Cruz: Each of these actions represents a departure from the ftc's historical role as a nonpartisan enforcer of consumer protection and competition law. Former commissioner christine wilson's resignation underscore this crisis. She cited former chairwoman's disregard for legal precedent and due process as key factors in her decision to step down.
▶ 0:21:16Chair Cruz: I think chairman aaron drew ferguson will restore the ftc -- I think chairman andrew ferguson will restore the ftc's -- I hope Mr. meador will help with that. The ftc must enforce laws as congress designed, not engage in ideological experiments.
▶ 0:21:42Chair Cruz: I look forward to hearing from both of today's nominees and hearing how they plan to advance the goals of their respective institutions. I turned to ranking member cantwell for her remarks.
▶ 0:21:52Sen. Cantwell: Thank you Mr. chairman and thank you for being the champion of washington innovation. That is usually my job. I love that we have the dual role.
▶ 0:22:03Chair Cruz: Do you want to hold the billion dollar chip?
▶ 0:22:06Sen. Cantwell: If she drops it is not my fault.
▶ 0:22:10Chair Cruz: -- if she drops it it is not my fault.
▶ 0:22:14Sen. Cantwell: We will hold it together. I really do believe that the state of washington is leading in iovation in many ways and we are very proud of that. We would like to start and obviously we will hear from our colleagues. I will try to be short with my opening remarks. Mr.
▶ 0:22:38Sen. Cantwell: Meador, for the federal trade commission come as you just mentioned the federal trade committee has a very big responsibility on antitrust enforcement including the five years you spent at the ftc. You know it is not just another regulatory agency, it is a frontline defender of complex consumer marketplace issues. I read in your testimony believe it is about competition in the marketplace.
▶ 0:23:08Sen. Cantwell: I do too. I don't think we can talk in your about competition. Competition gets you great innovation like we just saw and it also gets you the opportunity to help us grow our economy and lift more people into the middle class.
▶ 0:23:27Sen. Cantwell: Obviously markets sometimes have anti-competitive practices and unfair practices and the ftc -- I believe it is a critically important organization. Things like the rule that protects children's privacy. I saw my colleague but I think he stepped out.
▶ 0:23:49Sen. Cantwell: It's actions to block anti-competitive mergers resulting in high prices which -- like the kroger albertsons merger which is a very big issue in the pacific northwest and the litigation against pbm. My college chuck grassley -- prices like ftc -- I believe it is the ftc's role to examine business practices and make sure
▶ 0:24:21Sen. Cantwell: There is not artificial inflation of prices and holding businesses accountable when they harm consumers or competitors. These statistics are alarming. The ftc data shows in 2023 consumers reported losing $10.4 billion to fraud with the medium loss of $500. This is money consumers do not have to spend on groceries or rent.
▶ 0:24:44Sen. Cantwell: I cannot even believe I one day at the airport I overheard a constituent talking about her aunt had become exploited by an ai trip where she thought kevin costner was going to visit her and she had shelled out tens of thousands of dollars. When I brought this up to facebook-meta they physically said that is the biggest thing going on.
▶ 0:25:13Sen. Cantwell: With ai you're just going to where you know people have money. Why say your software is broken on your computer and you need to send me $100 to fix it when you can tell somebody kevin costner will visit you and you will pay them tens of thousands of dollars. We definitely need an ftc to be the policeman on the beat and continue to make sure pressures facing consumers are addressed so I look forward to your conversation.
▶ 0:25:41Sen. Cantwell: Turning to the second nominees, Mr. kratsios thank you for wanting to serve again in a capacity you know very well. The chips and science act passed with strong bipartisan support from this committee and recognizes america's scientific enterprise as the foundation of the church. Obviously there -- of the future. There are many things we need to do to test next-generation technologies.
▶ 0:26:10Sen. Cantwell: I'm a big believer that the private sector is the main engine of our innovation and capital markets and united states eating being outsized by some countries is not an issue if we educate and to innovate faster than they can. This notion of testbeds and laboratory research I will be asking you about in the q&a part of our questions.
▶ 0:26:36Sen. Cantwell: These opportunities for us to play our part on the broader r&d issues is something the office of science and technology is critical to do. As president trump nominee you'll be the chief scientist advising during this period of remarkable technology and change. I think that is why the united states must keep a very fast innovation pace ahead of our competitors.
▶ 0:27:04Sen. Cantwell: Since you are no stranger I know you will know more about how to work those levers. I need to hear from you today that you will be forceful on the investments we would like to see in innovation. I know the trump administration has said they plan to slash the budget of the national science foundation by two thirds while implement and sweeping layoffs. I think these are questions we will know the answer to.
▶ 0:27:34Sen. Cantwell: In my state the university of washington is a big r&d institution. It feels like it is continuing to help us uncover important issues that benefit all sectors and increase america's competitive advantages. I hope that as my colleague brought up quantum will be able to continue the national quantum initiative started under you and your administration.
▶ 0:27:57Sen. Cantwell: I was just looking up the quote you gave when six or $25 million was awarded to marious innovative -- one $625 million was awarded to various innovation hubs I was glad to see you were enthusiastic about the federal government playing a role in broad quantum r&d policies. We are in a global race. I know america is up to it.
▶ 0:28:23Sen. Cantwell: I look forward to asking you how we make these investments together and collaborate on actually getting the science implemented. Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:28:32Chair Cruz: Thank you senator cantwell. I would like to recognize my friend and colleague from the great state of tennessee senator hagerty to introduce kratsios Mr. dash to introduce Mr. kratsios -- to introduce Mr. kratsios.
▶ 0:28:55Sen. Hagerty: It is my great pleasure to introduce michael kratsios. The ostp director advises the president on key industries in the future including artificial intelligence, advanced manufacturing, biotechnology and more. Michael and I worked closely together on 5g and our telecommunications infrastructure when I served as U.S. ambassador to japan.
▶ 0:29:20Sen. Hagerty: Now more than ever emerging technologies present us with immense opportunities to maintain america's global dominance. At such a critical time we cannot afford to make policy errors in washington. That is exactly why we need a leader of michael's caliber serving in this role. While ai has rapidly ascended to become one of america's most important policy priorities, michael had the foresight to see this potential a decade ago and has been working tirelessly on the issue ever since.
▶ 0:29:53Sen. Hagerty: His impressive record of public service in the field of science and technology policy includes past service as chief technology officer in the united states as well as the under secretary of defense for research and engineering. In these roles and others michael has coordinated public and private partnerships and served as the architect for strategies on aim quantum technologies. He served as the managing director of scale ai, helping it become one of the most valued and respected privately held ai companies in the world.
▶ 0:30:24Sen. Hagerty: His research outside the government provided the first quantifiable evidence of how band technologies from china was still being procured state and local governments across the country. He also brought to light the significant risks proposed by p.r.c. Manufacture ship to shore cranes and american ports. America must remain the world leader in scientific and technological innovation. Our liberty and prosperity depend on it.
▶ 0:30:52Sen. Hagerty: Michael understands this mission and that is why I wholeheartedly support his nomination. I want to thank my colleagues for giving michael the deepest consideration.
▶ 0:31:02Chair Cruz: Thank you senator hagerty. I would like to recognize my dearest friend in the senate, the great senator from utah, senator mike lee to introduce his former staff member Mr. meador. Welcome back to the commerce committee.
▶ 0:31:18Sen. Lee: Thanks so much chairman cruz and ranking member cantwell. It is an honor and pleasure to be back in front of the commerce committee to introduce my friend and former valued matter of my team mark meador to serve the federal trade commission. I offer my wholehearted support for mark for whom I have great regard.
▶ 0:31:43Sen. Lee: It is also great to have him here with his family, his wife and their six children as well as mark's parents. I will note parenthetically his oldest daughter constance already has my pledged support when she runs for president in 2048. She is as smart as a whip.
▶ 0:32:01Sen. Cantwell: Where is she? Let's see the future president.
▶ 0:32:06Sen. Lee: She is terrific. If confirmed mark will honorably serve the american people as a member of the federal trade commission. I say this for a number of reasons. He is an exceptionally talented lawyer. It is a trusted advocate and a true leader in the field of antitrust law.
▶ 0:32:29Sen. Lee: His career has been defined by his ability to navigate some of the most complex questions in antitrust law and consumer protection matters. From his time on my staff in the senate to the time he spent at the federal trade commission as a lawyer there and also as a lawyer in the doj antitrust division, mark has served at the forefront of the consumer protection and antitrust issues.
▶ 0:32:53Sen. Lee: His vast wealth of experience with enforcement and policy in both public service and private practice as well has positioned him to be uniquely qualified for this new role. Shortly after mark first joined my staff in 2015 I became immediately impressed by his temperament and his judgment and his expertise. He always approached issues based on facts and based on the law and with really sound judgment.
▶ 0:33:23Sen. Lee: Mark had two stints working in my office and during these years I relied on his sound understanding of antitrust law. I also found mark to be somebody on whom I could rely for advice on pre-much anything and he consistently gave good advice. This is one of the reasons why if confirmed as a member of the federal trade commission he will be a consensus builder.
▶ 0:33:53Sen. Lee: He be someone around to my ideas can coalesce and opinions can form. His leadership was felt in more than 20 subcommittee hearings for which he helped me prepare involving some of the most significant antitrust topics for mergers. His leadership and insight were invaluable. Mark has a proven track record and extensive experience in the practice of antitrust law inside and outside of government.
▶ 0:34:20Sen. Lee: Not only does he have experience working for the ftc and doj and united states senate but he has remarkable success in private practice. His success in private practice can be attributed to his rare ability to advises clients not only on antitrust compliance and litigation but also on policy dimensions of offense of an defense of antitrust strategies.
▶ 0:34:43Sen. Lee: I will add that it has been a trim in this benefit to him and his clients that he served as a lawyer at doj and ftc on antitrust matters. His demeanor and temperament coupled with his ability to blend legal experience with strategic policy insight make an exceptionally qualified to serve as the next commissioner. Mark will ensure the antitrust and consumer protection laws are enforced in fair and principled manner.
▶ 0:35:14Sen. Lee: I have every confidence in mark and I'm proud to be here and support his nomination. I urge every member of this committee to vote in favor of mark's nomination. I look forward to voting for him on the senate. Thank you.
▶ 0:35:27Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator lee. You are welcome to stick around but you can also head on to other business if your schedule so demands. With that I recognize Mr. kratsios for your opening statement.
▶ 0:35:43Mr. Kratsios: Thank you senator hagerty for your generous introduction and thank you chairman cruz and ranking member cantwell and other members of this committee for inviting me to appear before you today. Let me also give my thanks to my family. My parents. My sister katie. My brother-in-law mark. My beautiful wife alyssa. I could not have come this far without your love and encouragement.
▶ 0:36:10Mr. Kratsios: It is the honor of my life time sit before this committee as president donald trump's nominee for director of the office of science and technology policy. In his second inaugural address the president promised his administration will work to usher in the golden age of america. I believe in that promise and will dedicate myself to fulfilling it.
▶ 0:36:31Mr. Kratsios: In the last trump administration as a technology officer of the united states and associate director of ostp I let national initiatives on artificial intelligence and quantum information science. I promulgated budget priorities that led to the federal government doubling research and defense spending in those areas. I drafted nonregulatory guidance for emerging technologies to give the public trust and how these technologies are developed and used.
▶ 0:37:00Mr. Kratsios: I saw firsthand how the actions we took at ostp could enable new industries to take hold and deliver benefits to the american people. For a century the united states has stood at the forefront of science and technology. We split the atom for war and for peace. We put man on the moon and brought him back again. With a transition or an integrated circuit we steered the globe into the digital age. Thanks to these breakthroughs americans have enjoyed unprecedented economic prosperity.
▶ 0:37:32Mr. Kratsios: We must preserve that inheritance to share with future generations and to ensure the tools and technology that give shape to our world always help people live productive and meaningful lives. In recent years other countries have sought to supplant the united states and claim science and technology leadership for themselves. In particular china has emerged as our preeminent geopolitical rival in our most formidable technology will and scientific competitor.
▶ 0:38:01Mr. Kratsios: Central to this competition is a new frontier of scientific discovery that lies before us. The shape of the future global order will be defined by whomever it leads across ai, quantum, nuclear, and other critical and emerging technologies. Chinese progress in nuclear fusion, quantum technologies, thomas systems all press on the urgency to work ahead.
▶ 0:38:25Mr. Kratsios: As president trump as set come as our global competitors raise to exploit these technologies, it is a national security imperative of the united states to achieve and maintain unquestioned and unchallenged global technological dominance. The office of science and technology policy will be critical to this effort in advising the president and coordinated national initiatives needed to rise to the challenge and deliver to the american people.
▶ 0:38:53Mr. Kratsios: I am committed to american leadership in emerging technologies and to ensuring that all americans benefit from scientific and technological breakthroughs. As director I will build a deep bench of policy experts to ensure the president and the white house have the necessary technical advice to meet the challenges of our moment.
▶ 0:39:12Mr. Kratsios: If we are to lead the world in science and technology for the next century, to continue to provide for the american citizenry, to enhance our national security, to imprint the future with american character and improve the welfare of all mankind, the only way to do so would be to double down on what has made our history of innovation so great. The uniquely american free market approach to scientific discovery which harnesses the combined strength of government, industry, and academia.
▶ 0:39:43Mr. Kratsios: With your support this administration will usher in a golden age of american innovation. Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:39:50Chair Cruz: Thank you Mr. kratsios. Mr. meador?
▶ 0:39:58Mr. Meador: Thank you chairman cruz and ranking member cantwell and members of the committee. Was a pleasure to meet you over the past weeks and it is an honor to be with you today. I am honored by the trust and confidence present trump has pushed in me and to help implement his agenda to improve the lives of american families. Thank you for this opportunity to serve our country.
▶ 0:40:21Mr. Meador: Thank you senator lee for your kind introduction, your unfailing support, and the opportunity to serve as your antitrust counselor not once but twice. The leadership has provided a model public service that I will strive to meet my entire career. I would like to recognize several people here today.
▶ 0:40:42Mr. Meador: First and foremost is my best friend and devoted wife adrian who is joining me along with our six children, constance, ross, ambrose, veronica, silas, and john. Many people have heard me say. I'm impressed I remembered all of those. That was my goal for the day. That makes it easier. Many people have heard me say that working in the senate was the best job I ever had.
▶ 0:41:15Mr. Meador: Truth be told unifying confirmed this position, caring and providing for the seven people seated behind me will always be my best job. I am also joined by my parents. After my faith in christ the greatest gift my parents gave me was a child marked by unconditional love and dedication to others.
▶ 0:41:40Mr. Meador: After growing up the son of a nomadic army officer my dad prioritized stability for our family and turn down other jobs to continue his career with united states postal service and always made sure there was time to teach me to call for accompany me on camping trips. My mom was always there even when working part-time's and also found time to run the soup kitchen at our church. Thank you for teaching me the value of service and how to be a loving and present husband and father to my own family.
▶ 0:42:11Mr. Meador: These examples were deeply formative for me and solidify my decision to embark on a career public service. I've worked as a federal antitrust enforcer and policy advisor in the department of justice is antitrust division and here in the senate. If I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed for this position I'll be returning home to write begin my career at the federal trade commission. To do so will be the honor of a lifetime. The ftc plays a critical role in protecting american consumers.
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Meador: Its twin missions are to stop unfair methods of competition and protect consumers have arguably never been more important. President trump is correct that america is facing inaffordability crisis. Our free market system is the bedrock of the american economy yet many americans feel it is no longer working to their benefit. They value hard work in free enterprise but at times feel honest competition has been replaced by concentrated economic powers that take them for granted. A truly free market requires the availability of meaningful choices for consumers.
▶ 0:43:12Mr. Meador: This includes the benefit of vibrant competition that leads to lower prices and higher quality and it means acknowledging americans are not just consumers, their mothers and fathers, neighbors and friends. Protecting competition in all of our markets is essential for ensuring america's free market economy operates as our servant, not our master. At the same time, fraudulent and deceptive practices threaten not just their wealth but the well-being of their children and loved ones.
▶ 0:43:41Mr. Meador: Unscrupulous actors seek to profit off our children by exploiting their innocence and vulnerability. Chairman cruz put it especially well when he remarked today's families face a challenge previous generations cannot imagine, rapidly changing digital environment targeting our kids. Parents struggle to navigate social media sites that put growing costs on their children's mental health.
▶ 0:44:08Mr. Meador: One of the ftc's most important missions will using its consumer protection authorities to safeguard families of those seeking to take advantage. If confirmed I will embark to ensure the ftc's enforcement resources are focused on the cases most needed to protect consumers and move the law in the right direction, not wasted on pet projects that risk making bad law and distract from real threats to american consumers. Ftc enforcement decisions should be based on the facts and the law.
▶ 0:44:38Mr. Meador: The law should be vigorously and fairly enforced. America needs and ftc focused on law enforcement, provides clear guidance, and ensures the public trust in the agency. The challenges facing our economy are great but so is our resolve.
▶ 0:44:56Mr. Meador: If I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed on the federal trade commission I look forward to working with chairman ferguson and my fellow commissioners to help american consumers by fighting to protect the competitive process that keeps markets free and the families that give value to our freedom.
▶ 0:45:13Chair Cruz: Thank you to you both. Your backgrounds are remarkable. Mr. kratsios let's start with you. During the first trump administration you served as the chief technology the third hank kissed -- the third-highest ranking official at the department of defense. Mr. mentor, you bring -- Mr.
▶ 0:45:38Chair Cruz: Meador, you bring extraordinary experience from your tenure at the department of justice and your work in the senate as a recidivist going to work for mike lee. Mr. kratsios, please tell the committee why you want to be the director of the office of science and technology?
▶ 0:45:55Mr. Kratsios: I believe it is critically important to our nation to lead the world in emerging technologies. These are technologies like ai and advanced telecommunications that will power our economy and ensure our long-term national security and if there is one agency within the government that can help in this mission it is ostp. This organization was established to coordinate all the disparate science and technology across the government.
▶ 0:46:24Mr. Kratsios: I am familiar with how the agency operates and I believe I can do a great job driving these initiatives across government.
▶ 0:46:32Chair Cruz: As chief technology officer during the first trump administration you played a key role in freeing up a significant amount of federal spectrum for 5g. Do expect this administration will push for freeing up spectrum for commercial use? It is critically -- Mr.
▶ 0:46:54Kratsios: It is critically important to be looking at ways we can utilize spectrum being occupied by various government agencies in the process we will show is if you bring the right technologies to bear on these problems you can find a way that can benefit the national security of the united states and the commercial interest. It is possible to be done and I thing we have to bring to bear the great science and technologies to help solve the critical technical challenges associated with freeing up spectrum.
▶ 0:47:23Chair Cruz: Given your experience as a senior leader at the defense department, would you agree it is technologically possible to free up spectrum without compromising national security?
▶ 0:47:33Mr. Kratsios: It is proven it can be done. It has been done before. If we get the right minds together these are the problems we can solve collectively.
▶ 0:47:44Chair Cruz: During the nomination hearings for commissioner ferguson I noted the challenge posed by evolving markets and emerging technologies. I have long thought the actions of big tech and our reliance on such companies may raise consumer protection and antitrust concerns. I was very pleased to see chairman ferguson issue a for information last week seeking public comment regarding technology platform censorship.
▶ 0:48:13Chair Cruz: He highlighted that current actions by tech platforms may violate their own terms of service in violation of section five of the ftc act. How should the ftc address the challenges posed by emerging technologies and big tech?
▶ 0:48:26Mr. Meador: I believe the ftc has taken the first step which is to collect all of the facts before we can make any enforcement decision. Reaching out to consumers to hear about their experience is the first thing we need to do. After that it is a matter of looking at the facts under the law to see whether there has been some active unfair practice or deception.
▶ 0:48:54Mr. Meador: I am confident this first step of collecting information is off to the right start. If I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed I look forward to working with chairman ferguson and the other commissioners.
▶ 0:49:08Chair Cruz: You agree the ftc has ample tools to address the challenge of big tech censorship? I have long said I think big tech censorship poses the biggest threat to free speech and free elections in this country. You agree with that?
▶ 0:49:25Mr. Meador: I do. I believe the ftc has a lot of tools at its disposal in the first thing it can do is to undertake an examination of the market through that lens to see what tools we have available to address the harms we identified in the marketplace. Should we encounter a harm that cannot be solved with the tools ftc has I would be happy to work with your office and other members of the committee to discuss with the path forward might be for additional ways to solve that problem.
▶ 0:49:52Chair Cruz: Mr. kratsios, at ostp you played a critical role in advancing the united states ai strategy and helped establish many of the tenants under the national artificial intelligence initiative act. So of those tenants were abused by the biden administration. The first trump administration ai initiative emphasize the role and developing basic measurement standards for ai.
▶ 0:50:18Chair Cruz: As dirk president -- under president biden they used authorities granted to develop standards for evaluating suppose it ai risks. I put that in quotes such as bias and misinformation. Testing standards became a trojan horse for progressive social policies. In january 20 25 president trump issued a new ai executive order in which he directed ostp to develop an ai action plan.
▶ 0:50:50Chair Cruz: The president knows the united states must avoid the european model of premature regulation, something vice president jd vance also emphasized in his speech at the paris ai summit the other week. How the previous administration deviate from the ai strategy you put in place and how do you anticipate the trump administration will build on your past work to ensure american leadership and dominance in ai?
▶ 0:51:15Mr. Kratsios: I look forward to working on the ai action plan with other members of the white house. The most important thing to meet when you think about applying an ai strategy across the agencies is to think very carefully and critically about the individual missions of the various agencies and align policy actions associated with the strategy to the mission.
▶ 0:51:44Mr. Kratsios: Nist is a long bipartisan history of being an agency that does measurement science and the work associated with any ai initiative should be in the light of that, focused on measurement science. I look forward to working with a wide variety of agencies that would be involved in driving this ai action plan, but most critically and through the lens I would be looking at this through his understanding with the strengths are of individual agencies and making sure how they contribute to the larger strategy aligns with that rather than deviating.
▶ 0:52:11Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator blunt rochester?
▶ 0:52:17Sen. Braun: Rochester thank you chair cruz -- step blunt rochester -- thank you both for being here. I would like to start with a few questions for Mr. meador. I appreciated our meeting and we discussed that protecting consumers is at the heart of the federal trade commission's work.
▶ 0:52:44Sen. Braun: I discussed that we received an overwhelming outreach from my constituents from calls at emails, we had a town hall yesterday with over 1000 folks and many of them are concerned and some are just afraid that elon musk and does are accessing their personal data from their social security numbers to tax records. Not only are they concerned about people accessing this but what they will use it for.
▶ 0:53:13Sen. Braun: As a consumer protection enforcer, what response do you think the ftc has to monitor devotion with regards to sense -- to monitor doge with regards to sensitive and private data?
▶ 0:53:26Mr. Meador: I enjoyed our conversation as well. As I mentioned at the time, there are laws the ftc enforces and there are laws to which the ftc is subject. In the later category is included confidentiality protections. When I was staff attorney we would collect information from third parties as part of the investigation and we were required to keep that confidential.
▶ 0:53:52Mr. Meador: That is very important so businesses can trust when they come to the ftc and share information as a witness to help our investigations it would not be abused. Those cover the other side of the ftc. The agency has an obligation to keep all the confidential information it collects private at the agency.
▶ 0:54:10Mr. Meador: I cannot speak to what the internal plans or practices are for doge but I can commit that I would ensure the ftc is following the laws it enforces as well as laws that restrict it.
▶ 0:54:23Sen. Blunt Rochester: Yesterday we discussed our shared concern over pharmacy benefit managers or pbm's. They contribute to inflated drug costs for americans and plain outsized role in the drug supply chain at the expense of consumers. In the house I was able to pose lead a bipartisan effort to rein in pbm's and I want to continue to do that in the senate.
▶ 0:54:49Sen. Blunt Rochester: Will you commit to supporting continued work at the ftc to investigate pbm's and take necessary enforcement actions?
▶ 0:54:56Mr. Meador: I was fortunate to begin my career at ftc in the health care division and this is an area of the economy I care deeply about that is one of the kitchen table issues people pay close attention to. If confirmed I am committed to ensuring we have competitive markets in the health care space using all of the agencies tools.
▶ 0:55:18Sen. Blunt Rochester: Thank you. Mr. kratsios, in 2019 you said workforce development must be at the heart of everything we do at the office of science and technology policy. You still believe this?
▶ 0:55:33Mr. Kratsios: I do.
▶ 0:55:35Sen. Blunt Rochester: I am laser focused on preparing the workforce for jobs of today and the future. I was secretary of labor in delaware, I started a bipartisan caucus in the house. Especially when we look at biotech and ai and quantum come as director of ostp, would you prioritize strategies to increase our emerging tech workforce and if so how?
▶ 0:55:58Mr. Kratsios: Absolutely. Whenever I think about how you structure a national strategy around emerging tech it falls on four pillars, one is r&d, one is regulation, the fourth pillar is always workforce. Within the federal government there is lots of levers you can use to drive those efforts through grants and fellowships to researchers and it can also be through lots of other programs to allow for training and reese killing. I am at -- and reskilling.
▶ 0:56:30Mr. Kratsios: I would like to work with you on those issues.
▶ 0:56:32Sen. Blunt Rochester: I am concerned about the mass firings of scientists and engineers at nih and nist. Does that concern you and you think the howling out of the federal government for this technical talent risks losing ground economic competitors like china?
▶ 0:56:51Mr. Kratsios: It is important when you enter a new administration to have the opportunity to assess the team you have on the field and determine what is the best way to drive the priorities of the american people and president. It is very natural and common sense than logical to do that evaluation. What I have observed from the outside is these considerations of employment are ones that do not specifically target science and technology but are brought across all of the agencies.
▶ 0:57:21Mr. Kratsios: I think it is a necessary step to take at the start of an administration.
▶ 0:57:25Sen. Blunt Rochester: My time has expired but I will submit some questions for the record and one of which I wanted to know is if you believe there is bias in ai or has been bias in ayotte? Thank you. -- or has been bias in ai. Thank you.
▶ 0:57:43Chair Cruz: Senator fischer?
▶ 0:57:47Sen. Fischer: I enjoyed meeting both of you before this hearing so thank to coming to my office and having a good discussion. Mr. kratsios I welcome your enthusiasm for advancing american leadership on emerging technologies. Ostp is responsible for coordinating science and tech policy among federal agencies.
▶ 0:58:09Sen. Fischer: When you are the united states chief technology officer one of your focuses was advancing dods unique testing authority to drive innovation and you stated the department of defense is at the forefront of cutting edge 5g testing and experimentation. Do you still believe that?
▶ 0:58:30Mr. Kratsios: I do.
▶ 0:58:34Sen. Fisher: And when it comes to 5g and other matters do you believe dod testing should be integrated into a national spectrum policy.
▶ 0:58:44Mr. Kratsios: Yes. Dod is a critical component of the spectrum strategy.
▶ 0:58:51Sen. Fischer: If your confirmed your role will still be influential on spectrum policy though it may be smaller compared to other agencies. Previously I understood you were involved with america's big initiatives team.
▶ 0:59:06Sen. Fischer: You brought that up a couple times yesterday in our discussion and so I looked into it a little bit more to familiarize myself with it and that was an option off of big-band spectrum held by dod and it was to make those licenses available to wireless companies.
▶ 0:59:32Sen. Fischer: Did the option because more congestion for defense systems -- did the auction or congestion for defense systems operating in that lower band?
▶ 0:59:42Mr. Kratsios: It provided an opportunity for a technical analysis of that spectrum range and found a way to complete the national security mission by moving some of the workloads in the auction band to lower bands.
▶ 0:59:56Sen. Fischer: So they had to compress that band even more to accommodate that into the lower three?
▶ 1:00:03Mr. Kratsios: Some of the activities that were in the band were moved down to a lower band.
▶ 1:00:09Sen. Fischer: Are you familiar -- I understandambit struggled on the back end with major relocation costs from the defense systems in that process of compressing them. Is that correct?
▶ 1:00:34Mr. Kratsios: I'm not tracked the details since I left office but there always transition costs.
▶ 1:00:40Sen. Fischer: Are you familiar with any of the costs? Are those readily available so we can access those? Do you know how that cut into the net revenue expected?
▶ 1:00:51Mr. Kratsios: I am not familiar with those details but I can see what is publicly available.
▶ 1:00:57Sen. Fischer: Mr. meador, over the years the federal trade commission has faced off against the deepening pockets of major corporations, especially when it comes to big tech. If confirmed how would you prioritize litigation and effectively use agency resources in upholding the ftc mission?
▶ 1:01:19Mr. Meador: That is a very important topic. The ftc staff has gotten very good at doing a lot with much less. If confirmed my first step will be to consult with the chairman and commissioners and the staff to understand what challenges they are facing and what resources we have available and then we are collaborating with all of them to determine which cases to protect the highest number of consumers from the bravest number of threats.
▶ 1:01:48Sen. Fischer: At times there can be tension without enforcement coordination with the department of justice. You have any comments on that or if that would occur what would you do?
▶ 1:02:01Mr. Meador: This is something that has happened frequently in the past. Some of it is unfortunately very public. I am confident president trump has selected leaders for this administration who can work well together. It is of paramount importance both agencies be singing from the same hymn sheet and be aligned on policy and enforcement decisions there should be no daylight between them when it comes to how to enforce the antitrust law. I think anything is possible if you don't care who gets the credit.
▶ 1:02:31Mr. Meador: When it comes to clearance we should be focused on protecting consumers as fast as possible.
▶ 1:02:35Sen. Fischer: Thank you both for putting yourselves forward to serve in these very dangerous times we live in. I appreciate it and thank you you to our families as well. Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:02:47Chair Cruz: Senator baldwin?
▶ 1:02:50Sen. Baldwin: The bipartisan chips and science act authorized one of the largest investments in our nations history into public research and development. These investments will help ensure the united states remains a global leader in innovation for critical and emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence and quantum computing.
▶ 1:03:13Sen. Baldwin: Unfortunately it has been reported that the trump administration is considering reducing the national science foundation -- their annual budget by up to 66%. I believe this would be a disastrous step backwards in the international race to invest and develop these technologies. Mr. kratsios, do you support the bipartisan investments that have been made under the chips and science act?
▶ 1:03:42Mr. Kratsios: I generally have supported the important role federal funded research plays in the ecosystem.
▶ 1:03:53Sen. Baldwin: Is that a guess as far as the chips and science act?
▶ 1:03:57Mr. Kratsios: Components of the chips and science act are extra neri important for semiconductors and the broader ai ecosystem.
▶ 1:04:05Sen. Baldwin: You think it would be wise to reduce the budget of the national science foundation and cut back on these critical investments in research and development.
▶ 1:04:13Mr. Kratsios: I cannot speak to the top line of the national science foundation.
▶ 1:04:18Sen. Baldwin: 66% is what we heard.
▶ 1:04:21Mr. Kratsios: I will defer to the president and omb as they decide those top lines. In some sense the absolute number but more importantly how the dollars that are budgeted and ultimately appropriated are spent in prioritizing them in areas of national interest. When I served as the U.S. cto in the last administration, even in constrained budget environments we spent a lot of time trying to ensure we are prioritizing investment in areas critical for the future of american prosperity.
▶ 1:04:50Sen. Baldwin: You would not rule out a 66% cut in funding?
▶ 1:04:54Mr. Kratsios: I would defer to the process of the president and omb.
▶ 1:04:59Sen. Baldwin: We know that to remain a global leader we need our best and brightest regardless of their gender, their race, their ethnicity, their sexual orientation to be on the front lines in these research careers. That is why the bipartisan chips and science act requires ostp to develop and publicize guidance for federal laboratories and universities on best practices to help identify any institutional barriers let limit the recruitment, retention, and advancement of women and under
▶ 1:05:33Sen. Baldwin: Represented minorities in stem research careers. Do you believe president trump's executive order ending d.e.I. Programs contradicts this bipartisan law and do you commit to executing this ostp directive in the law even if you are directed by president trump not to?
▶ 1:05:53Mr. Kratsios: I do not believe the d.e.I. Executive order is in conflict with the law. I have for many years and will continue to advocate for all americans to pursue stem degrees . In my opinion there are not enough americans pursuing advanced degrees in stem and it would be my priority if I was to be confirmed to get as many americans as possible to go back into the stem fields.
▶ 1:06:16Sen. Baldwin: Mr. meador, I appreciate you taking the time last week to stop by to discuss some of the critical issues that are before the federal trade commission. In our meeting we discussed our shared concerns around the market consolidation and the health care industry. I appreciated hearing from you about your perspectives on private equities, the acquisition of hospitals, physician groups come in nursing homes.
▶ 1:06:45Sen. Baldwin: Can you share with the committee what role you believe the federal trade commission has in the interest of health care quality and costs?
▶ 1:06:53Mr. Meador: Thank you for raising that topic. The ftc plays a critical role in its antitrust enforcement to ensure our markets are competitive. That includes preventing anticompetitive conduct in policing mergers to ensure there is not consolidation in any individual market.
▶ 1:07:14Mr. Meador: There it is important to look at the competitive effects of a merger regardless of who is purchasing it to ensure in the aftermath we are going to have a competitive status quo and the competition be maintained so all health care providers feel the need to provide better quality service.
▶ 1:07:31Sen. Baldwin: Since I only have 20 seconds left, Mr. kratsios you may answer this year or for the record. You come to this role with significant prior experience with artificial intelligence. With respect to health care, I want to know what role you believe ai has in her health care systems and what if any guardrails you think should be in place?
▶ 1:07:53Mr. Kratsios: I think one of the greatest and most impactful applications of artificial intelligence will be in the world of health care, from drug discovery to the way we operate our health care institutions. There is a tremendous opportunity in places like hhs and the private sector to make an impact.
▶ 1:08:13Chair Cruz: Senator curtis?
▶ 1:08:18Sen. Curtis: . Mr. meador, in the waning days of the biden administration the ftc noticed rules that unfairly targeted the direct selling industry that has a large industry in utah that represents 38,000 jobs.
▶ 1:08:37Sen. Curtis: More importantly, an industry that I know from first-hand observation works diligently to obey all the laws and stay within all the parameters and yet frequently finds themselves attacked by bureaucrats. My question for you is can you commit to voting against implement and the proposed rules?
▶ 1:09:00Mr. Meador: I cannot commit to any specific vote should I be confirmed but I can tell you if I am confirmed I will work with staff to get up to speed on that issue and approach it with an open mind.
▶ 1:09:13Sen. Curtis: I understand that. I will rephrase what you said with more emphasis and see if you can say yes to this. Can you commit to giving full and fair consideration to the concerns of the direct selling industry?
▶ 1:09:28Mr. Meador: Absolutely.
▶ 1:09:31Sen. Curtis: I appreciate that. It is very important for these companies to get right and have that audience to explain that perspective. Mr. kratsios, if I pronounce that wrong, you are probably used to that. I am sorry. Thank you for coming by my office. The director of the ostp will have a seat on president trump's national energy dominance counsel.
▶ 1:09:59Sen. Curtis: What you see as ostp's role on the council and how will you leverage that role?
▶ 1:10:04Mr. Kratsios: On that counsel one of the primary missions is to provide important technological and scientific advice to the rest of the council members. What ostp can also advocate for our new and emerging ways -- new and emerging energy dominance. It is something I look forward to if confirmed building a team to help support.
▶ 1:10:32Sen. Curtis: I would love you to see utah's innovation. I think they're doing some amazing things. If you get a chance he is in utah.
▶ 1:10:40Mr. Kratsios: I would love to.
▶ 1:10:43Sen. Curtis: When we met we talked about this interest between national security and technology. Our greatest rival is china. What would be the national security implications of china leading emerging technologies and how would you advise the president on the best policy approach to ensure U.S. leadership in these technologies?
▶ 1:11:03Mr. Kratsios: We have to make a priority to drive U.S. leadership in these critical fields which I think the president has done. The next step is being able to execute and bring to bear the totality of the american innovation ecosystem which is the federal government, the private sector and academia working together to develop these new technologies, both for discovery all the way to fielding them.
▶ 1:11:29Mr. Kratsios: One area that is also very important is taking technologies that have proven very successful and represent american dominance in the field, take large language models, and actually making the step to apply those to critical national security missions we have at dod in the ic. It would be a shame if we are able to create these technologies but we are not fielding them.
▶ 1:11:55Mr. Kratsios: There is work to be done in maintaining our leadership in ai but also fielding those technologies.
▶ 1:11:59Sen. Curtis: Appreciate both of your answers. Mr. chairman, I yield.
▶ 1:12:06Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator lujan?
▶ 1:12:11Sen. Lujan: Mr. meador, when we met we discussed the importance of independent ftc. The current administration is undermining that independence by refusing to defend the supreme court's 90-year-old decision where the supreme court held ftc commissioners and members of other bipartisan agencies can only be fired for cause.
▶ 1:12:35Sen. Lujan: My office sent over the text of humphrey's letter to congress from the acting solicitor general stating the administration would no longer defend the constitutionality of certain for cause removal protections and a statement from chair ferguson that he agrees with the acting solicitor general's position. Did you receive that information?
▶ 1:12:58Mr. Meador: I received it late last night.
▶ 1:13:01Sen. Curtis: Did you have a chance to review them?
▶ 1:13:03Mr. Meador: In brief I did.
▶ 1:13:07Sen. Lujan: Do you agree with the solicitor general's position?
▶ 1:13:10Mr. Meador: I cannot read into too much on the sub effect given it is the subject of ongoing litigation with the ftc. I have clear with some of the scholarship -- I agree with some of the scholarship of justice elena kagan who says direct presidential control of agencies increasing democratic accountability.
▶ 1:13:34Mr. Meador: I believe on november 5 the american people gave a clear signal they want greater accountability and how the federal government is administered and that is what led to the election of president trump. If confirmed to this position I will work to serve the american people and will do so by advancing the agenda of the president they elected.
▶ 1:13:50Sen. Lujan: Can you repeat why you cannot answer that question?
▶ 1:13:54Mr. Meador: The underlying legal question is subject to underlying litigation to which the ftc is involved.
▶ 1:14:01Sen. Lujan: Is appropriate for Mr. ferguson to weigh in?
▶ 1:14:04Mr. Meador: I would defer to chairman ferguson.
▶ 1:14:08Sen. Lujan: You believe you should not because it is currently before the courts and you stand strong behind that?
▶ 1:14:13Mr. Meador: It is inappropriate to me as a nominee.
▶ 1:14:16Sen. Lujan: If you are in ftc commissioner would be appropriate to weigh in?
▶ 1:14:21Mr. Meador: I would have to consult the office of general counsel. I've not asked them that question from the standpoint of a confirmed commissioner.
▶ 1:14:28Sen. Lujan: Mr. chairman, you are a legal scholar. I think that answers the question were soundly and I appreciate the clarification. If you're confirmed and the supreme court overturns humphrey's, how are you going to maintain your
▶ 1:14:47Mr. Meador: Review this question as having the same answer regardless of how the legal proceedings play out. The president has nominated me to serve the american people, and regardless of who decides these matters I will show up each day to serve the american people by working to enforce the law fully and fairly. >> do believe the ftc should be independent?
▶ 1:15:09Mr. Meador: I will defer to the courts. >> that speaks for itself. The previous administration, I think there was a question asked , will you commit to continuing the important work of holding ppm accountable with their practices?
▶ 1:15:36Mr. Meador: As I mentioned, this is a very important topic, and I'm glad to see the interest among committee members. If confirmed I can commit to enforcing the competition laws across the entire [indiscernible]
▶ 1:15:51Sen. Lujan: Plus congress the primary patent for their cancer that they would not for the intravenous version of the drug soon came after the subcutaneous version of the drug, which you may be aware is between the skin and muscle. So, it tries to get below the skin, but right above the muscle. A blatant example of the games companies play called product hopping.
▶ 1:16:22Sen. Lujan: What will you do at the ftc to address these uncompetitive practices?
▶ 1:16:26Mr. Meador: Thank you. This was a topic -- I will not see the fortune, but I had the experience of working on these matters as an attorney in the health care division. If confirmed I will be working with that staff to make sure we are enforcing the law to its fullest extent.
▶ 1:16:42Sen. Lujan: Mr. kratsios, do you believe the national labs are critical to our nations scientific research and technological advancement, including supporting our nation's energy future and ensuring our national security?
▶ 1:16:55Mr. Kratsios: I do. I have for many years been a fierce advocate for our lab system.
▶ 1:17:01Sen. Lujan: Do you see a role in using ai for national security risk assessment?
▶ 1:17:06Mr. Kratsi: I think the doe already does that and should continue to do that work.
▶ 1:17:11Sen. Lujan: He previously testified on the importance of quantum as a key industry of the future. You support the reauthorization of the national quantum initiative act to advance american leadership in quantum?
▶ 1:17:24Mr. Kratsios: I was a big advocate of the initial passing of the bill and would love to work with this committee to see if we can get it reauthorized.
▶ 1:17:30Sen. Lujan: Mr. chairman, I remember asking a question about quantum computing -- it may have been in a skiff. The individual said they should not answer the question on quantum because it is classified. I then held up a copy of fortune magazine, which that issue decided to cover quantum. It is just refreshing to be able to have that conversation. I appreciate it, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:17:57Chair Cruz: I agree that far too much is classified that you can read in the newspaper. I will also say to my friend from new mexico who also raised good questions, I do not have any of the constraints the nominee has, so I'm happy to answer your question, which is I think humphrey's executor was wrongly decided and should be overruled.
▶ 1:18:22Chair Cruz: As I read article two, all power is invested in the president of the united states, and I would note it is a similar exchange this committee had with howard lot, or some committee -- committee members were surprised that howard lightner was going to work temperament the president's agenda. I would suggest that is not a surprising thing.
▶ 1:18:42Chair Cruz: I would expect president trump's nominees to work to implement his agenda, just as president biden's nominees worked to implement his agenda, and every president we have had. The beauty of our constitutional structure is the president is democratically accountable to the people. Senator hickenlooper.
▶ 1:19:02Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate your commitment to working in the public interest. We start off with Mr. kratsios. In your role as director of ost p you will be responsible for working with various advisory bodies. The president's council on advisors, pcast.
▶ 1:19:31Sen. Hickenlooper: Obviously I am -- in maslow's hierarchy of scientists, geologists are at the bottom. But I have published peer-reviewed research and I think it is important we make sure science remains impartial, objective, and nonpartisan.
▶ 1:19:51Sen. Hickenlooper: So, we need to make sure that our scientific enterprise is examined and re-examined, and continues to be modified to be more successful in those essential needs of our country. If you are confirmed, how do you commit to -- or can you commit to ensuring ostp works with the scientific community's voice? The scientific community is fairly represented and their voices truly uplifted?
▶ 1:20:16Mr. Kratsios: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. To me one of the most important goals I mentioned in my opening statement was to ensure the team we build is representative of a wide variety of science -- scientists and technologists that support the important priorities of the president.
▶ 1:20:36Mr. Kratsios: In any administration ostp starts with very few people on the team and the next year is spent finding the best scientists and technologists to bring into the white house to work with the agency. I commit to doing that and I think it is critically important that any policy process around the white house is informed by high-quality sound science. That is something I look forward to bringing to bear on what we do at the white house.
▶ 1:21:01Sen. Hickenlooper: That is something we will support you one, as it gets complicated, as I'm sure it well. Mr. meador, a national privacy law would require a great amount of oversight to be able to hold businesses accountable. Sometimes these are very large businesses, with immense capability.
▶ 1:21:27Sen. Hickenlooper: State attorneys general experience investigative teams that cover a range of consumer protection laws. Do you believe it is appropriate for state ag's to help the ftc enforce a federal privacy law? Especially if that federal law preempts state laws? Why or why not?
▶ 1:21:50Mr. Meador: Thank you, senator. I believe that is a decision for congress to make at the time it would pass a federal privacy law to put structures in their governing. On between state ag's and the ftc. Should congress give the agency additional powers we would see equally productive relationships there.
▶ 1:22:15Sen. Hickenlooper: In terms of recognizing the immense power of these very large companies and what we have seen with social platforms and in many cases the lack of any ability of government to curtail some of the things we recognize -- I mean, some of the deepfake pornography is one example that comes up.
▶ 1:22:42Sen. Hickenlooper: How do you think we should be looking at ai within that same context of being able to get the market to have some balance?
▶ 1:22:50Mr. Meador: That is an incredibly important topic that is only going to increase in prominence. I think the first step is to view it through the lens of our existing enforcement authorities. The ftc has the ability to police deceptive practices, and we know ai is being used to turbocharge many of those acts.
▶ 1:23:10Mr. Meador: It will be incumbent upon the ftc to keep a close eye on that activity to make sure we are not letting anything slip through the cracked, and should we be aware of something we are not able to address with existing authorities, to consult with you and the other members of the committee to make sure that is resolved.
▶ 1:23:25Sen. Hickenlooper: Great. Last thing we talked about in our office, the importance of markets being balanced. How sometimes it is government, sometimes it is private industry, but everybody is trying to distort markets when it is to their advantage. Last week ftc chair ferguson announced the agency would maintain that 2020 three joint merger guidelines with the doj, the department of justice.
▶ 1:23:53Sen. Hickenlooper: These guidelines outline the criteria for the ftc to consider as a looks at mergers and acquisitions. A lot of these decisions have direct effect on her gets themselves. How can the ftc ensure we maintain fair competition in markets as we keep a ford-looking vision?
▶ 1:24:10Mr. Meador: That is a great question. I enjoyed our conversation. I thought you made several excellent points about the needs to balance the prevention of anticompetitive conduct with not going too far to burdening markets with too much intervention. I think that has to remain at the forefront of every enforcement decision the ftc takes, looking to ensure they are improving the lives of consumers when they do act, but not going so far as to micromanage the economy in any area.
▶ 1:24:38Sen. Hickenlooper: I appreciate that. I yield back to the chair.
▶ 1:24:42Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator young.
▶ 1:24:46Sen. Young: Congratulations to our nominees. I'm excited about your service, and doing some good together. Mr. kratsios, thank you for taking some time to visit with me the number of days ago and in that meeting we discussed the critical importance of emerging technologies to our national security and our economic competitiveness. We discussed the chips in science act. You know that is important to me, as the republican collate of that effort.
▶ 1:25:17Sen. Young: I'm still focused, as I indicated to you in that meeting, on achieving through the chips program office for the reassuring of our semi conductor manufacturing base, and you offered me reassurances about those efforts, should you be confirmed. I just want you to commit on the record to honoring existing chips agreements to ensure stability for this growing industry as we work to further implement this program.
▶ 1:25:48Mr. Kratsios: Those specific agreements, I will have to defer to secretary lochner, but I will commit to if confirmed working closely with the secretary and large enter agency on a two-prong goal of being able to reassure the critical fabrication of high-end semi conductors in the united states, and creating the ecosystem to continue to be the world leader in the design of these chips.
▶ 1:26:14Sen. Young: Great. And I trust that secretary lochner will be following congressional direct gives and intent and look forward to working with him on those efforts. You played a role, Mr. kratsios, in ai policy in the first trump administration. I would expect in this capacity you will continue to play an important role.
▶ 1:26:37Sen. Young: You played a very important role in the february 2019 executive order on maintaining american leadership in a high -- ai. Do you plan to build on this work, and if so, in what way?
▶ 1:26:53Mr. Kratsios: Absolutely. I was the first executive order ever signed by president on artificial intelligence. Signed by president trump in february 2019. The crux of that order is the necessity for a holy government -- whole of government approach to containing leadership in ai. Have to lead the world in r&d. We have to leave the world in creating a regulatory environment that allows companies to grow and succeed in the U.S..
▶ 1:27:24Mr. Kratsios: We have to create an environment where our workforce can take advantage of the new technology. The last pillar is around international engagement, how we can work with partners to ensure that U.S. becomes the foremost in ai in the world instead of our adversaries.
▶ 1:27:40Sen. Young: Thank you for that cover hence of answer. There is a welcome and I think important emphasis by certain incoming members of the administration on making sure we do not unduly throttle innovation as it relates to ai and that we encourage deployment. Can we better leverage public-private partnerships and emerging technologies more broadly to ensure the U.S. remains a leader in innovation?
▶ 1:28:07Mr. Kratsios: We can, senator, yes. Both in ai and quantum we have seen examples of where ai centers, both from nsf and doe, have shown the opportunity where the private sector can work with academia and government together to do the important basic r&d, and then ultimately able to translate that into use cases for the commercial sector. I think we need to continue to look at those opportunities and do more of that.
▶ 1:28:37Sen. Young: I will move onto biotechnology briefly. Mr. kratsios, I have chaired for the last roughly 18 months and national security commission on emerging biotech. I will produce our final report from members of congress for the next couple of months, and I have come to learn how important this technology will be to our national security and our economic vigor for the next generation and beyond.
▶ 1:29:08Sen. Young: If confirmed, how do you ensure that the U.S. is prepared to take advantage of this key platform technology?
▶ 1:29:15Mr. Kratsios: Similar to other emerging technologies, the way you can achieve U.S. leadership is through a whole of government approach that is able to leverage the strengths of agencies and how they can plug into the larger strategy. I think just like we have seen with ai and quantum unique coordination between agencies like doe and national science foundation and commerce, and even agencies like dod ultimately used this technology. I think the same or go with biotech.
▶ 1:29:44Sen. Young: More specifically, what role will our ability to produce, gather, and put in readable format biological data play in our staying ahead of the competition?
▶ 1:29:59Mr. Kratsios: I think it is critical. If we look at the largest players in china their sole mission is to hoover up as much of that as possible. The U.S. needs to be in a position to prioritize and think about the value of this data.
▶ 1:30:12Sen. Young: One final thing for Mr. meador. Noncompete reform has been a priority of mine. I think that noncompetition agreements are overbroad. They are over utilized and there are better instruments existing under labor law to deal with the stated concerns of employers.
▶ 1:30:38Sen. Young: This is an impediment to upload -- to upward mobility and so forth. I think Ms. con acted illegally. The courts vindicated my view as it relates to this policy issue, but I think on the substance, directionally they were heading in the right direction. You have any plans as it relates to noncompete reform? And will you assure me that you will work with this committee if you start to rule-make as it pertains to this issue?
▶ 1:31:06Mr. Meador: Yes, senator. I share your concerns. I agree they have been overused and abused. I will not comment on the legal status of the rulemaking, but I cannot say -- I can say there is a lot more the ftc can do. I think that would be a good next step for the agency to take, to investigate how we can use our enforcement powers to address those.
▶ 1:31:31Sen. Young: Fantastic. I look forward to working with you. Can we work together?
▶ 1:31:35Mr. Meador: Absolutely.
▶ 1:31:37Sen. Young: Chairman.
▶ 1:31:38Chair Cruz: Ranking member cantwell.
▶ 1:31:41Sen. Cantwell: Thank you. Thank you again to both of the nominees and your willingness to serve, and your families. Your kids have been camped out there in the anteroom having a good time, but they said they cannot wait to hear you answer more questions. [laughter] Mr.
▶ 1:31:59Sen. Cantwell: Matter, on 13b, we have had the ftc commissioners for us I almost think you could get to a resolution before we could. You agree the importance of having 13 b for consumers?
▶ 1:32:16Mr. Meador: Yes. It is important the federal trade commission have the ability to return money to consumers who have been harmed.
▶ 1:32:23Sen. Cantwell: You have any thoughts about how to come to an agreement on restoration of that authority?
▶ 1:32:29Mr. Meador: I would defer to this committee in congress as a whole as to how best nominate that -- navigate that. I'm willing to assist with your office or any others to figure out how we can make that happen as quickly as possible.
▶ 1:32:42Sen. Cantwell: But you see that refunds are a part of that?
▶ 1:32:47Mr. Meador: Yes. I believe in we have consumers who have been harmed by unfair or deceptive practices one of the best things the ftc can do is get the money back to consumers.
▶ 1:32:57Sen. Young: Sen. cantwell: but refunds at large are a good way of eliminating anticompetitive behavior?
▶ 1:33:04Mr. Meador: They can certainly be a tool. Everything is fact-specific. It depends on the case, but if confirmed I look forward to working with this staff to examine what has been effective in the past and what we want to do.
▶ 1:33:16Sen. Cantwell: I know you had a question from one of my colleagues on ppm's, but senator grassley and I have reintroduced our bill that is about outlawing spread pricing and clawback actions by pbms. You have thoughts about that?
▶ 1:33:33Mr. Meador: I enjoyed working with senator grassley on many of the same issues and if confirmed I would appreciate consulting with your office and others to talk about what the best legislative solution could be in this industry.
▶ 1:33:44Sen. Cantwell: Do you think that is a -- you know, I like this anti-manipulation authority. I have given anti-manipulation authority to the federal regulatory commission. I gave it to the commodities futures trading commission. They both have established very aggressive oversight of very anti-repetitive and manipulative practices.
▶ 1:34:12Sen. Cantwell: With agencies have gotten billions of dollars in fines against companies. The ftc has not done so much here. But senator grassley felt very specific about saying these types of practices are illegal. You don't have any problem saying that?
▶ 1:34:27Mr. Meador: I would want to see the final report for the study pending before the commission. I think that is the first step. I have been looking at pbm's since I was in law school. I'm familiar with a lot of the concerns. I also know things have changed since then. It is important we understand what is happening in the marketplace today.
▶ 1:34:47Sen. Cantwell: There could be good actors who get you a discount, but if somebody goes to a large employer and says I will get you a 35% discount and then they park at the ppm and only give the company and workers 5% that doesn't seem like a fair way to do business. I have to ask your seatmate there, Mr. kratsios, about technology. I'm sure people talked about testbeds ma was gone. You believe that is a vital role we play at the federal level.
▶ 1:35:21Sen. Cantwell: You believe that aviation or quantum, or somebody cannot do the scale at which an industry needs to get an answer? Served an important purpose for technologies. Nist has experience in bear -- in building testbeds as well.
▶ 1:35:36Sen. Cantwell: I love that senator lee was here as well as senator hagerty, because they both -- well, one comes from a very benefited deal state and the other is chairing now the energy committee, and these are initiatives often times on the testbeds side that are at d.o.e. Or nsf. What is your thoughts about the president's nsf comments, and how do you think these two agencies fill that role of doing that testbed work?
▶ 1:36:05Mr. Kratsios: I think nsf and d.o.e. Have proven with the chips act implementation and work and even before that for both ai and quantum centers there is great opportunity to leverage those two agencies, with the rich history of funding and creating and organizing use of facilities. These are places where a lot of these important testbeds can reside for communities.
▶ 1:36:27Sen. Cantwell: So you want to speak loudly about how robust that is? Is that correct? I want to make sure I get the characterization. You will say this and then I will find out, go ahead, take a meat cleaver to nsf.
▶ 1:36:43Mr. Kratsios: It is important that ostp is able to relay the importance of the scientific and technological community to the larger discussion and ultimately to the decision of the president. I am committed to bringing to bear the scientific advice of those conversations.
▶ 1:36:59Sen. Cantwell: Sounded more like a politician then a science guy but ok. What about spectrum? Do you think we could use a little testbeding to help us move ahead of our competitors here and really get the solution for the future?
▶ 1:37:14Mr. Kratsios: I do. I think it is important to do advanced spectrum testing. We did some work around 5g testbeds at some of our military bases and why that was an interesting opportunity was some of the regulations around approval for these types of tests were easier when they were done on military facilities. I think across all merck -- all emerging technologies we have to be thoughtful on how to make sure the U.S. is leading on these technologies.
▶ 1:37:42Sen. Cantwell: Thank you. I will have more christians for the record on that. Thank you, madam chair. >> thank you. Welcome. We are delighted you are here, and congratulations on your nominations. Mr. kratsios, I know that senator lujan asked you about the quantum initiative and getting that back in gear.
▶ 1:38:08Sen. Cantwell: I want you for the record just to talk about what you can do in this position as, if confirmed, the really advanced quantum -- advanced quantum. In tennessee this is important. Chattanooga, they are working to commercialize the first commercially-available quantum network. I would love to hear that from you.
▶ 1:38:33Mr. Kratsios: Ostp plays a special role in quantum, and that is the home for the national quantum coordination office. It is essentially the focal point for the larger interagency on how quantum policies run for the federal government. We have an incredible opportunity in this congress to reauthorize the national quantum initiative.
▶ 1:38:55Mr. Kratsios: I think there is work to be done on the way a lot of great and vital basic research is done on quantum is ultimately translated into things get -- things that can benefit the american people through use cases. The other thing we also need to --
▶ 1:39:13Sen. Blackburn: Testbeds for near-term applications?
▶ 1:39:15Mr. Kratsios: I think the closer we can get commercial operators to folks doing the basic r&d and accelerating that lot to market, I think is very important and I think a lot of the senators -- centers have been set up to serve that.
▶ 1:39:28Sen. Blackburn: Let me ask you about standard-setting. This is something senator warner and I have talked a good bit about, where we are concerned about china's aggression. Whether it is the wic or whether it is any number of applications , and we are trying to encourage U.S. leadership in that regard. Is that on your radar? Are you watching that?
▶ 1:39:55Mr. Kratsios: It is, yes. Never I think of a comprehensive strategy for an emerging technology how the U.S. is able to posture globally to be the ones who are the standard-setters is important. In the 2019 executive order the president called on nist to drive these initiatives on ai globally, and I think the same important work should be done in quantum.
▶ 1:40:18Sen. Blackburn: And hypersonics? In tennessee we have the only place where hypersonics testing can be done, and we know china and russia, north korea is over meddling with hypersonic technology. So, tell me what you are looking at there.
▶ 1:40:38Mr. Kratsios: Hypersonics are a critical technology to dod and U.S. most lead on. In the first trump administration a very large policy decision was made to refocus a big insignificant portion of engineering budget towards hypersonics efforts. I think those continue and it is incumbent on our larger defense-tech ecosystem to continue to drive on hypersonic's.
▶ 1:41:06Sen. Blackburn: Mr. meador, we look forward to you going to the ftc. The bots act was something passed in 2016, and the ftc has taken up only one case. Enforcement on that is necessary. It is important to our tennessee entertainers, and indeed, anybody with a live venue. Have you looked at that issue?
▶ 1:41:33Mr. Meador: Somewhat, yes, senator. I think it is incredibly important. I have been active in the ticketing space and making sure we have markets that are free from interference by unfair and deceptive practices. If confirmed I look forward to working with the commission to make sure we enforce that law fully.
▶ 1:41:50Sen. Blackburn: Children in the virtual space. We have some young attendees here today. Of course, protecting children in the virtual space is terribly important. We tried to get that past. We have done well with it in the senate. We are working with our friends over in the house, who just could not seem to get there to protect kids.
▶ 1:42:17Sen. Blackburn: So, I would hope that you will work with us as we try to get this legislation passed.
▶ 1:42:26Mr. Meador: I care personally about this topic and would be happy to be a resource and work with your office.
▶ 1:42:32Sen. Blackburn: Absently. Congratulations. We appreciate that you are here. Senator markey, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 1:42:40Sen. Markey: In 1998i authored the children's online addiction privacy act, which is still the only federal privacy legislation to protect young people online. Mr. meador, in a meeting yesterday you acknowledged that you are not that familiar. If confirmed can you commit to quickly getting up to speed on that law?
▶ 1:43:03Mr. Meador: Yes, senator Sen.
▶ 1:43:06Markey: . I look forward to it. Will you commit to strictly enforcing the federal trade commission's rules?
▶ 1:43:11Mr. Meador: I think it is important to enforce all of the authorities congress has given us.
▶ 1:43:17Sen. Markey: While the original has been a success it is time we upgrade protections to account for new predatory practices online. According to the centers for disease control and prevention in 2023 one in 14 age girls seriously considered suicide. One in 18-age girls attempt at suicide. And one in 10 lgbtq youth high school students attempted suicide.
▶ 1:43:44Sen. Markey: That is why I have been fighting to modernize copa, to protect children from ads related to eating disorders, amongst other things. Mr. meador, do you agree that congress should protect teens' online privacy?
▶ 1:44:01Mr. Meador: I think protecting children is one of the most important missions for the ftc and congress.
▶ 1:44:06Sen. Markey: I'm glad to hear that, because we do need to address the evasive tracking -- tracking and targeting of young people, and we do need copa 2.0 to become the longtime of the country. Now want to turn to the basis claim that big tech has unfairly censored conservatives. Mr. meador, when we met yesterday you said that you needed to learn more information about the issue and would follow the facts.
▶ 1:44:37Sen. Markey: When chairman cruz asked early this morning whether you agree that tech censorship poses the greatest threat to free speech and free and fair elections in this country, you said you agreed. So, that answer is inconsistent with our conversation yesterday. Let's be completely clear. Do you believe that big tech has censored conservative speech?
▶ 1:45:03Mr. Meador: Senator, thank you for that question. I would make a distinction between sharing the concern about the behavior of big tech and how they conduct their online platforms and whether or not that conduct amounts to a violation of the ftc act. We were speaking yesterday that is how I viewed that discussion. How would I look at the question of whether any specific action by an online platform violates one of the provisions of the ftc act? That is something I do not want to prejudge. I would have to look on a case-by-case basis and the facts of the law.
▶ 1:45:33Mr. Meador: I'm glad the ftc has taken the first step to begin implementing an information so we can assess that question. But I do share the concern about how content moderation has been implemented by online platforms.
▶ 1:45:43Sen. Markey: Again, that is not the answer, in my opinion, you gave to senator cruz today. Last week the federal trade commission began collecting comments on whether the platforms have censored users based on their speech. This action is clearly designed to intimidate the platforms to adopt speech policies that promote conservatives. Mr.
▶ 1:46:08Sen. Markey: Meador, is it the ftc's responsibility to ensure that a plat's content moderation rules support conservative influence?
▶ 1:46:17Mr. Meador: I believe it is the ftc's responsibility to enforce the laws congress has given it.
▶ 1:46:23Sen. Markey: Many people like myself strongly believe that the platforms did not improperly censored conservatives. In fact, a peer-reviewed study from last year found that while conservatives were suspended more often on twitter, they were also much more likely to share this information. Madam chair, I would like to include that study in the likely -- the record. >> without objection.
▶ 1:46:53Sen. Markey: Will you follow the facts during these fishing expeditions?
▶ 1:46:59Mr. Meador: I commit to fairly looking at the facts in every case that would come from -- come before me.
▶ 1:47:05Sen. Markey: Again, I remain deeply concerned, because your comments earlier today suggest you have already come to a conclusion on this issue. Chairman ferguson has made similar comments. Mr. meador, if the ftc staff inc. -- conclude that no other enforcement action is warranted against big tech platforms for supposedly censoring conservatives will you commit to following that recommendation?
▶ 1:47:33Mr. Meador: I can commit to closely examining the evidence collected by staff, along with recommendations and consulting with my fellow commissioners to ensure we are reaching the right decisions based on the law.
▶ 1:47:46Sen. Markey: That is deeply disappointing, because in my opinion objectively looking at, the staff will come to a conclusion that there has been no censorship. My fear is that president trump is trying to turn the ftc into the federal trade commission. And I think that is going to be very, very damaging to our country. So, I'm going to be watching closely. And I thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:48:13Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator schmitt.
▶ 1:48:15Sen. Schmitt: As attorney general of missouri I filed a lawsuit that uncovered the censorship enterprise. The idea there was not censorship is nonsense. We saw the weaponization of the whole of government against political opponents because they dared to dispute the efficacy of masks. War had concerns about the vaccine. The idea that there was not censorship does a real disservice.
▶ 1:48:45Sen. Schmitt: The worst abuse of the first amendment we have ever seen in the united states of america. I hope you continue to look at this, because I think we have just scratched the surface. And the idea, the federal trade commission, how about the disinformation governance board that was established under president biden? This is orwellian stuff. So, the ftc is right.
▶ 1:49:16Sen. Schmitt: I'm glad the leadership has shown to open up and find out what other examples exist, because there is no way we are going to effectively deal with this until we met -- admit there was a problem. My friend from the other side who made the statement is ignorant of the facts. By the way, who decides the truth? Like, the government doesn't. People get to decide that. You only get to do that in a free and open society where people have the ability to speak their minds. Mr.
▶ 1:49:45Sen. Schmitt: Meador, I want to ask you this question, I guess. What other steps can be done to ensure that people can speak their minds? I know you talk about the coordination between government and big tech. That is certainly a thing, because that is a direct violation of the first amendment. I know you've got a couple of different buckets, whether it is violating terms of service, or violating the core tenants of section 230 protections. How do you view this and the role the ftc has?
▶ 1:50:14Mr. Meador: Thank you, senator. There are two avenues through which the ftc could address this type of conduct. There is the antitrust laws. If you have competitors colluding on content moderation standards that could amount to a violation of the antitrust laws. And on the consumer protection side, if the application of terms of service or other promises made by a platform and up being deceptive you could potentially have a concern there under the ftc.
▶ 1:50:44Sen. Markey: I think what europe has messed up on ai is it has been overregulated and they are sort of pushing a political bias, which is, I think, demolished' europe's chances at being a leader in this. Which I guess is good for us. How do we avoid that? How do we avoid woke ai? How do we avoid black george washington?
▶ 1:51:09Sen. Markey: What do we do to make sure this does not become the next frontier for this level of censorship with quantum shifts fueling it?
▶ 1:51:19Mr. Meador: I think the best thing the ftc can do within its remit is fully enforce the competition laws to ensure that rockets are not on newly concentrated or dominated by a single actor and consumers have choice. Ultimately I think we can trust that the market will work if we give it a chance. But that means we have to maintain competition so consumers can take their business elsewhere if they are unhappy with the services they received.
▶ 1:51:43Sen. Schmitt: Thank you. Mr. kratsios, thank you for your willingness to serve as well. Highly qualified. I have respected you for years. We have gotten to know each other. The president has announced a national initiative to drive innovation, like the american ai initiative. David sachs, a great pic to be helping with a lot of the stuff and the national quantum initiative. How do you view your role in making sure those programs are successful?
▶ 1:52:12Mr. Kratsios: The office of the role in the white house to coordinate these efforts across the federal government. Whether you are driving the national strategy on artificial intelligence or climate information science all agencies that have a very important role to play, from basic research funding at the national science foundation, to more applications work at our doe labs, to some standards-related work at nist
▶ 1:52:43Mr. Kratsios: Where ostp plays a critical role is being the coordinator of these efforts across the government. That is what we did in the 45, and we hope to do again in 47.
▶ 1:52:54Sen. Schmitt: What do you think the biggest challenges right now for the united states to be the leader in ai? It gets thrown around broadly, but to be the leader in innovation and, you know, obviously deepseek is a wake-up call. There is no way they did it for $6 million, but the fact is I think our assumptions about how far ahead we were have been shattered to some degree, right? This is a very serious race we have with china.
▶ 1:53:23Sen. Schmitt: What do you think our biggest obstacle is to continuing to be a leader?
▶ 1:53:28Mr. Kratsios: I think our biggest obstacle is effectively pursuing a promote and protect strategy you can have an institute, a set of export controls around high-end chips, but if you are not successfully enforcing those export controls and limiting the access of bad actors in the prc from accessing those chips you are not actually protecting. The same goes on the promote side.
▶ 1:53:52Mr. Kratsios: You can encourage the research and development and these emerging tech fields, but if you are not effectively allocating those dollars to the hardest problems in those fields you are not moving the ball forward. I think the strategies there. I think you have to effectively execute on both sides of those going, promote and protect.
▶ 1:54:11Sen. Schmitt: Thank you.
▶ 1:54:12Chair Cruz: Senator klobuchar.
▶ 1:54:15Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you. Congratulations to both of you. I think I will start with one question of you, Mr. kratsios. In your testimony you mentioned hoping to double our r&d spending during president trump's first administration. You have already seen this administration attempt to got funding from many important research agencies, including nih. If confirmed will you commit to funding research and development levels authorized by congress?
▶ 1:54:46Mr. Kratsios: I will have to coordinate with the president and no one be on budgets, but my commitment is to bring to the table and to those conversations the importance of research and development in these emerging technologies.
▶ 1:54:58Sen. Klobuchar: Do you agree that domestic semiconductor production should be uprightly for the U.S.?
▶ 1:55:04Mr. Kratsios: Absolutely. We have to be able to produce high-end chips in the U.S.
▶ 1:55:09Sen. Klobuchar: Mr. meador, eiler -- I worked closely with you on antitrust and competition issues during your time in senator lee's office, and I hope if confirmed you will continue to work in a bipartisan manner. Today the commission is litigating antitrust cases against maddock, amazon, john deere, testified -- pesticide manufacturers, many others.
▶ 1:55:37Sen. Klobuchar: You commit to continuing to prosecute the antitrust case is currently at the commission and pursue remedies that will protect consumers from anticompetitive conduct?
▶ 1:55:45Mr. Meador: Thank you, senator. It is good to see you again. While it cannot commit to any specific action I share the concerns the agency is seeking to address. I think it is a lot of important work and I can commit to taking that seriously if confirmed to ensure we are doing everything we can to enforce the law.
▶ 1:56:02Sen. Klobuchar: Appreciate that. You have written that it is long past time for our government to finish what they started -- breakup live nation, ticketmaster, and bring competition back to the live event ecosystem. While you worked for senator lee I teamed up with him to hold a rather memorable hearing. Senator cruz was there in judiciary on ticketmaster, live nation. Monopolies over venues, artists, ticketing.
▶ 1:56:32Sen. Klobuchar: The justice department is litigating the case. Can you elaborate why it is so important to take on monopolies like live nation, ticketmaster, and how will that experience help you at the ftc?
▶ 1:56:43Mr. Meador: Absolutely. In that case we have an industry that has many parts of a vertical chain. What we have seen is that combining all of them into one firm has allowed them to engage in what is called foreclosure. When one company controls the primary ticketing service that artists use an venues use, as well as the actual venues themselves, it gives them the ability to lock up the entire industry, which ultimately raises prices for consumers, reduces the quality of their
▶ 1:57:14Mr. Meador: Experience at these events, deprives artists of money they would otherwise earn, and leads to a worse ecosystem overall. If confirmed to this position I would take those concerns from that industry and be on the lookout for similar situations in other industries to make sure one firm cannot dominate an entire industry to the detriment of consumers.
▶ 1:57:36Sen. Klobuchar: Very good. Ftc independence, I senator lujan ask you some questions along this line. Do you believe the sole focus of the ftc should be to protect consumers from unfair methods of competition and deceptive practices, which is clearly in their act setting them up, without concern for political pressure from the white house?
▶ 1:57:57Mr. Meador: Yes, with the caveat we have about 80 statutes we enforced total.
▶ 1:58:03Sen. Klobuchar: That's why I thought. As I asked the question I thought that might be a smart response on your behalf. I worked with senator grassley to up date corporate merger fees for the first time in 20 years to give our antitrust agencies more resources to hire attorneys and economists. I coordinated on his bill, allowing the state ag's to keep them in their jurisdictions, which was a lead-klobuchar bill, thank you.
▶ 1:58:31Sen. Klobuchar: As well as this bill with grassley. Do you agree that to take on some of the biggest companies in the history of the world the ftc must be funded and staffed with the best people possible?
▶ 1:58:42Mr. Meador: Yes. It is important for the ftc to have everything and needs. I was honored to work with your office to create the possibility of antitrust enforcement that is self-funded without burdening taxpayers.
▶ 1:58:53Sen. Klobuchar: How will you work with state ag's? There is a lot of action going on right now to enforce antitrust and consumer protection laws.
▶ 1:59:03Mr. Meador: I think that is one of the unique things about american antitrust that I appreciate. Multiple levels of enforcement we have. I know the ftc has long history of working with state ag's and I would look forward to continuing those relationships.
▶ 1:59:20Sen. Klobuchar: I want to thank both of you for answering the questions and not filibustering. I was actually miraculous. Thank you and if we have any other questions I will put them on the record. Thanks.
▶ 1:59:32Chair Cruz: Senator marino.
▶ 1:59:34Sen. Moreno: I have learned the skills about talking about nothing but I'm sure it will come naturally as time goes on. In that vein --
▶ 1:59:47Chair Cruz: Given that you sold cars, I don't believe you. [laughter]
▶ 1:59:54Sen. Klobuchar: I did not say that.
▶ 1:59:55Sen. Moreno: I was tying to -- trying to improve my life status from car dealer, and I went backwards to politician. If I get my law degree, I'm toast. Mr. meador -- who is a lawyer, I meant that in the nicest way possible. Thank you for agreeing to serve in this administration. If you were to describe your job to a 13-year-old -- is that right? How would you describe your job?
▶ 2:00:21Mr. Meador: I believe my job is to make the lives of american families better. And that is primarily through protecting markets that they rely upon to put food on the table to get health care for their children. And just to go about their daily business. That includes competitive markets so they have options that are affordable and high quality. And fat in the midst of trying to provide for their families they are not the pride of their wealth and consume -- deprived of their wealth through scams.
▶ 2:00:55Sen. Moreno: It would be your top one or two priorities?
▶ 2:00:56Mr. Meador: I'm focused on the kitchen table issues. Again, going to those things that affect the average person on a daily basis. Making sure they have competitive markets that provide affordable housing, energy, health care, food. All of those should be top of mind for the ftc.
▶ 2:01:12Sen. Moreno: That is great. Having your fellow commissioners here to support you shows that the agency should be free from politics and there should be somebody that does the right thing. I appreciate your willingness to serve. Mr. pratt seals, I appreciate you being willing to serve. I also applaud your parents being here. I'm a first generation immigrant myself, from columbia. We know the spanish empire was the greatest empire. I appreciate you being here.
▶ 2:01:42Sen. Moreno: I'm sure your parents are proud of you serving ones, and now doing it again. I want to remind my democrat colleagues that you work in -- you were unanimously confirmed, and keep that in mind despite their tendencies to want to be partisan. You are taking on a big job. The report directly to the president. It will be great to have a president who understands artificial intelligence and not somebody who actually needed it injected into his brain. That is a step up from the previous administration.
▶ 2:02:13Sen. Moreno: In the previous administration the person who had your job talked a lot about electrifying america. What is your thoughts on this idea that everybody should have electric stoves, everybody should have electric cars, and there is only one size that fits all? Is that based on science, in your mind?
▶ 2:02:28Mr. Kratsios: I think to solve the energy problems of this country we have to take an all of the above approach. Electricity is part of it, but there is a whole lot more there and I look forward to working with the president's council to make sure that is reality.
▶ 2:02:41Sen. Moreno: To forcing everybody to drive electric cars seems like probably not science-based or practical?
▶ 2:02:47Mr. Kratsios: The government should not be forcing anyone to drive a particular type of vehicle.
▶ 2:02:52Sen. Moreno: That is good to hear. Maybe in california they have not heard that memo. Speaking of california, objectively a pretty state run by terrible people, would you think that california should set standards for the rest of the country? Meaning, do you think it is up to california to decide what type of cars people in ohio should buy?
▶ 2:03:13Mr. Kratsios: I'm not familiar with how the policy around that works, but I think in principle that that probably is something that should be looked at more carefully.
▶ 2:03:22Sen. Moreno: I would think my colleagues would want to have the federal government set even standards for the entire country and not have one state or another. That makes sense, right? We regulate interstate commerce in the federal government. Does that make sense to you?
▶ 2:03:39Mr. Kratsios: We have seen that around issues like privacy, where if there is an inability to create a privacy law you have a patchwork by states and that ultimately does not do the best thing for industry or consumers.
▶ 2:03:55Sen. Moreno: You think it is important that businesses get certainty for as long horizon as humanly possible and not think about a policy that lasts for a year or two or three or four, but maybe a decade?
▶ 2:04:05Mr. Kratsios: I think regulatory certainty is a big driver on encouraging investment. Particularly in science and technology.
▶ 2:04:15Sen. Moreno: I think you would agree, we should be the leaders? This is the country that innovation is born here. That we should be leaders not only in artificial intelligence, quantum computing, blocking technology, human-machine interaction. These are all of the things that are ahead of us. How do you see government's role in that? What do you see philosophically the role of the government making that happen?
▶ 2:04:43Mr. Kratsios: The government plays a role in four categories. The first is on early-stage r&d. This is investing federal dollars in areas where the private sector is not incentivized to do yet. We have been doing that for 50 and 60 years. We need to keep doing that. The second pieces around regulations. -- peace is around regulation. So, finding ways you can unlock potential and allow them to flourish and not have regulations get in the way.
▶ 2:05:13Mr. Kratsios: The fourth he is through workforce programs. It is critical that both we have individuals who are able to become the next great scientists and technologists to make these studies, and also prepare workers to wield these technologies in their daily life. The fourth is around international engagement.
▶ 2:05:33Mr. Kratsios: We need to make sure we are partnering with our allies on using these technologies globally and pushing back on actions like the ones the ccp take to push their technology globally.
▶ 2:05:45Sen. Moreno: That is a fantastic answer. Look forward to having both of unanimously confirmed, adding in office, and most important, having you visit the greatest estate in america, ohio.
▶ 2:05:59Chair Cruz: Senator kim.
▶ 2:06:00Sen. Kim: I think I would like to start with you, just to build on some of the conversation that has happened here. The ftc has a particular structure in terms of its leadership. It is one that has bipartisan tradition in that way. I want to ask you, do you see benefit in that type of structure and bipartisan nature of ftc?
▶ 2:06:23Mr. Meador: Thank you, senator. My experience both as an attorney at ftc and a practitioner is the consensus-building that took place at ftc always made its enforcement actions stronger.
▶ 2:06:37Sen. Kim: I guess I kind of raise that because there was talk about the independence of ftc. And why, I think, it is so important that we ensure that. Because there is a sense of credibility, right? I imagine you believe that for ftc, for its rulings to be considered for it to have the kind of resonance with the american people about a sense of fairness, that credibility is critical for ftc to function?
▶ 2:07:04Mr. Meador: Absolutely, senator.
▶ 2:07:07Sen. Kim: As we proceed on this I know there is a lot of politics, but you and I had a good conversation, talking through some critical issues. Like for instance, around the role of ftc when it comes to big tech.
▶ 2:07:22Sen. Kim: I would think that for ftc to make decisions that are potentially going to be controversial around big tech is important that it be seen as being done from a sense of what is right for the american people and a sense of fairness rather than something that is political or something associated with a political donor or special interest group. Is that right?
▶ 2:07:41Mr. Meador: The way I would view my job if confirmed is to show up each day working to serve the american people and enforce the law the way it has been written. I cannot speak for the other commissioners I'm confident they share that view as well.
▶ 2:07:54Sen. Kim: I hope so. That is something that, again, for the majority of people watching, I mean, I talked to people in new jersey about this. They don't fully understand the debate about the entered -- about the independence of agencies. That is more of a D.C. worldview in that way. They do understand fairness. They do understand a sense of whether or not their interests are being put forward. I ask that if you are confirmed you keep that in mind.
▶ 2:08:24Sen. Kim: If the ftc loses that sense of credibility, if it is seen as a political entity that is carrying out actions based on whoever, which parties in control, I think it very much will undermine the capacity for the ftc. Mr. kratsios, I wanted to ask you some questions here. I wanted to speak from a couple of different angles, but I wanted to ask directly, do you think we are spending enough on basic science research?
▶ 2:08:53Mr. Kratsios: I think over the years, since the 1950's and nsf was created, the amount of federally-funded r&d has continued to generally increase. I think it has been critically important to the way we have been able to make these discoveries. I think what has changed over the years is the contribution that the private sector makes to the larger r&d ecosystem. I think around the time of world war ii the percentage of r&d that the federal government was funding was more than 50%.
▶ 2:09:23Mr. Kratsios: That has changed dramatically. That is a good thing for the country. We are seeing some of the greatest innovations coming from the private sector.
▶ 2:09:30Sen. Kim: You think overall spending, not just government, but private sector, academia, where are we? I hear about china increasing their basic science research funding opens up double digits. We are obviously not keeping pace with that trajectory. Does that concern you?
▶ 2:09:47Mr. Kratsios: As someone who is deeply obsessed with american leadership in science and technology I do believe that as an economy, continue to invest in this critical r&d across the board is beneficial to the country.
▶ 2:10:01Sen. Kim: Right now the foundation of it is, you said government, private sector, the amount of governance has been decreasing in terms of total percentage. I think it is around 40% government funding right now I'm a 30% private sector. As that seem fair to you? I'm trying to think through and understand your calibration here in terms of what you would like to see and whether or not you think the private sector should take over more of what the government does when it comes to basic science research?
▶ 2:10:27Mr. Kratsios: What is amazing about the U.S. ecosystem is that a lot of these changes are driven by what I spoke about in my opening statement. This free-market approach to scientific discovery in the U.S. to I think the challenges and problems with a ccp-approach to science funding is that you end up having over-allocation to the wrong things and under-allocation to the right things.
▶ 2:10:53Mr. Kratsios: And thinking that you can sort of be god for the day and make sure you allocate things in the right places, I think, is a mistake. In the U.S. the reason why we have the greatest chips in the world and the greatest algorithms in the world and the greatest applications in the world is we go back to that free-market approach.
▶ 2:11:09Sen. Kim: I don't discount that and I will yield back to the chair in a second. But listening to your opening statements, adding a man to the moon, the transistor, and the creation of microchips, so much of that was based off of government research funding or acquisition early on. I just say, look, there are certainly models in that direction, but we need to be careful about moving too much toward profitability. With that I yield back.
▶ 2:11:36Chair Cruz: Senator peters.
▶ 2:11:40Sen. Peters: Congratulations to both of you on your nominations. Mr bader, regardless of your own accomplishments and qualifications I want to follow up on a question that senator kim asked. That deals with the independence of the commission.
▶ 2:11:58Sen. Peters: I'm deeply concerned that the situation you are entering into if confirmed in this position, from my viewpoint the ftc is at the center of a broader effort by president trump to further consolidate his own power. And disrupt literally, nearly a century of precedent regarding the role of independent executive branch agencies. My question is straightforward, following up on kym's comments.
▶ 2:12:28Sen. Peters: Do you agree with the doj's position announced this month that it now believes the four-because of removal protections applicable to independent commissions are unconstitutional?
▶ 2:12:39Mr. Kratsios: Mr. meador: Mr.
▶ 2:12:42Meador: Thank you, senator. I will defer to the department of justice and white house. The ftc is involved in litigation right now. Would be inappropriate for me to comment on. But I can speak to is my own intentions, which is to show up each day to enforce the law to serve the american people without fear or favor respect party.
▶ 2:13:01Sen. Peters: So if confirmed and emotion comes up after your confirmation that aligns the ftc position on the matter that the trump administration, just trying to basically new to the independent status of these agencies, which side would you fall on?
▶ 2:13:15Mr. Meador: I wouldn't be able to commit to however would vote on any matter that would come before.
▶ 2:13:27Sen. Peters: I'm still very concerned about what is happening here and I hope commissioners understand the importance of independence. Some thing that has been happening for many years. Decades. That this is a dangerous course. It is part of this unitary executive philosophy. Folks want to know what a unitary executive is? Think of putin, for example. That is the direction we are going, unfortunately. Mr. kratsios, you previously worked on president trump's ai executive order in 2020.
▶ 2:14:00Sen. Peters: Required agencies to publish ai use cases and make sure agencies protect privacy civil rights, as well as civil liberties. Do you agree that agency should publish use case inventories that use their ai uses to protect privacy, civil rights, as well as civil liberties?
▶ 2:14:23Mr. Kratsios: I do believe the ai inventories started under the first trump administration are important and the biden administration continued those. For both the white house and more broadly, for the american people to see what these use cases are and how the government is using ai is valuable. I think one tweet or something to think about is ai is becoming more pervasive across everything we do as americans and everything individual people and civil servants to across government.
▶ 2:14:54Mr. Kratsios: I think maybe one way -- a more valuable sort of list going forward may be some categorization of some high-impact use cases. This is so you are not inundated with the next copilot being used in a browser, for example.
▶ 2:15:07Sen. Peters: Surely all of us should be protected, but there are different risk levels. So that is what you are saying? That we have a category of risk levels? An uptown ms weapon system is different than predictive maintenance for trucks? -- autonomous weapon system is different than predictive maintenance for trucks?
▶ 2:15:28Mr. Kratsios: To me, I like impact of, how is this particular ai application making a difference in the way an agency of providing its services to citizens?
▶ 2:15:42Sen. Peters: I'm also concerned about the brain drain in science agencies. The so-called department of government efficiency has fired swaths of workers without -- none of the basis of poor performance. Basically, and discriminate late. And sometimes without even knowing what those workers were responsible for. In the case of workers overseeing the nuclear arsenal, for example.
▶ 2:16:05Sen. Peters: These firings included scientists and experts at nasa, the national science foundation, the national institutes of health, and the national institute for standards and technology. Doge has created a workplace environment where experts are essentially being harassed at the explicit goal of getting them to resign. This is knocked loose it to ensuring the government can maintain that top talent in science fields, which is essential for our competitive advantage, which we need for ai and space exploration, etc.
▶ 2:16:35Sen. Peters: My question is, do you agree that it is essential to retain top talent in the federal government to further the success of the united states? If so, how would you advise the president to reverse course in these policies that are actually having these folks with very specialized and important town being fired?
▶ 2:16:57Mr. Kratsios: I do believe it is important for all of our science and technology agencies to have high-skilled, technical, and scientific folks there to do the important work of the american people. I also think it is reasonable for a new president to be able to evaluate the team he has on the field across other agencies and make the changes to ensure he can achieve the goals that he campaigned on and won.
▶ 2:17:22Sen. Peters: The key word there is to evaluate. There is no evidence that there is any evaluation, and parent he was indiscriminate. The thing that caught me is, because he was basically people who were promoted. They were outstanding performers, they got promoted to a different job, and now that his probationary. So we actually fired people who just got promoted because of their outstanding work. Congratulations, you did a great job. You are now five.
▶ 2:17:51Sen. Peters: I don't think that works in any business. Would hope you would step up and say that doesn't work in the science enterprise as well. Yes or no?
▶ 2:17:58Mr. Kratsios: Yes. If I have -- if I am involved I will bring to bear the importance of science and technological advice at all of these agencies.
▶ 2:18:08Sen. Peters: . Good.
▶ 2:18:09Chair Cruz: I'm now going to recognize senator rosen and trust the gavel to senator rosen while I run to vote and have trust and confidence she is not going to seek unanimous consent to dissolve the white house or department of commerce or something.
▶ 2:18:24Sen. Rosen: I will not pick the I will declare my first day holiday. [laughter]
▶ 2:18:28Chair Cruz: There you go.
▶ 2:18:31Sen. Rosen: Thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you for the nominees, families, for being here today, for your willingness to serve. I'm going to talk about consumer prices. Americans have seen skyrocketing prices from everything from groceries to housing, and in many sectors consolidation has led to higher costs, less competition, and often no choice for consumers on where to shop.
▶ 2:18:56Sen. Rosen: Last year I pushed the ftc to suit to block the kroger-albertsons grocery store mega merger that would have eliminated good paying jobs and lead to even higher food prices in nevada and across the country. Mr. meador, would you confirm actions by the ftc to block mergers up and down the grocery supply chain to prevent further price increases? Everybody in this country has to eat, so I will say for everyone.
▶ 2:19:23Mr. Meador: Thank you, senator. I share those concerns. As a father of six I pay a lot of attention to our grocery bill and I think it is an important topic. If confirmed I will do everything I can to ensure we are enforcing competition up and down grocery supply chain.
▶ 2:19:39Sen. Rosen: And would you take action to review other bad actors were -- you are taking advantage of the supply chain issues? We know there are eight shortages. We want to make sure the people are not price gouging. Will you commit to working on that as well?
▶ 2:19:55Mr. Meador: I would have -- be happy to help the staff and commissioners look into those issues.
▶ 2:20:03Sen. Rosen: We are talking about ai and surveillance pricing. It is a new strategy where companies use personal data to change prices in real time for individual consumers. This presents clear opportunities for discrimination and price gouging as the goal of surveillance pricing is to offer the highest price for the specific customers willing to pay. For example, a new mom shopping for diapers. Seniors for over-the-counter medication.
▶ 2:20:33Sen. Rosen: Las vegas, it is pretty hot out there, and gatorade on a hot, sunny day. The new ftc commissioner withdrew comments on surveillance price -- pricing. This signals a lack of concern about pricing and protect americans from these discriminatory practices.
▶ 2:20:58Sen. Rosen: Again, would you commit to support publishing the comments received under the ftc's surveilling pricing, and support the publication of those findings? I think this is akin to price gouging in some ways, as they track you around and decide who is going to pay what, depending on who you are.
▶ 2:21:17Mr. Meador: Thank you, senator. I can commit to working with the staff to get up to speed on this issue and understand one investigative efforts they have undertaken to look into it. Being up to speed on the record and then working collaboratively with the commission to find the best path forward.
▶ 2:21:33Mr. Kratsios: You are a father of six and I bet you buy a lot of cereal and don't want to suddenly go in and the price of cereal is double the price of -- I am an empty nester -- triple the price it was for me.
▶ 2:21:47Mr. Meador: We would be target number one.
▶ 2:21:49Sen. Rosen: I hope not. I want to move on to talking about deepseek and china. Mr. kratsios, you will be required to develop and lead the nation's ai strategy. We see huge and alarming ai advancements in china, with more efficient models and advancements in data centers. With this innovation comes serious threats. I'm concerned about the possibility of new ai platforms like deepseek and used to extract sensitive data from users.
▶ 2:22:22Sen. Rosen: Deepseek is open source. The loopholes in its code could be copied to other platforms. I'm the only form computer programmer in the united states senate. This could happen easily. Reports indicate deepseek exposed sensitive data, including chat history, on publicly accessible databases.
▶ 2:22:43Sen. Rosen: Instacart's ears, how do you plan to collaborate with the private sector to ensure that our ai models have minimum security requirements, that they do not create a back door or allow public access to user data to private data, and how should congress be thinking about this challenge with respect to the models coming out of our adversary nations?
▶ 2:23:02Mr. Kratsios: I think those are excellent points and it is critical for the government to be thinking about how to work with these individual modern developers to think through some of these issues. I think a lot of them are scientific and technical in nature and one of the most important things the federal government can do is support the measurement science necessary in order to be able to test and evaluate these models. An agency like nist is a great place to refine the science around model evaluation.
▶ 2:23:32Mr. Kratsios: I think the ceo of anthropic is here in the senate two years ago and when he was discussing some of the challenges he is facing was that the technological methodologies necessary to evaluate these models still did not exist. This is a great opportunity for standards-making agencies to do the appropriate work on how you measure these models, and then they can be tested for a variety of things you discussed.
▶ 2:23:53Sen. Rosen: Thank you. Before I close it out I would say hope you would agree we need a highly technically skilled workforce in order to do this, and protect america. And I hope you would support keeping the skilled workforce that you have and not supporting these willy-nilly cuts. Thank you.
▶ 2:24:14Mr. Kratsios: A skilled workforce is absolutely critical.
▶ 2:24:18Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator duckworth.
▶ 2:24:22Sen. Duckworth: I was this close to the gavel. It was right here. Thank you. On february 12, 2025 sarah harris notified senator dick durbin, the ranking member of the senate judiciary committee that the department of justice has determined the statutory protections for the members of st -- of ftc are unconstitutional. Chairman ferguson stated his agreement with this position. I know senator lujan ask about energy independence.
▶ 2:24:52Sen. Duckworth: Do you believe the president should be able to fire ftc commissioners at will?
▶ 2:24:55Mr. Meador: Senator, I believe that americans are concerned about high prices and the cost of living, and that the president is committed to improving their condition. I believe that is why was nominated to this position. If confirmed that is what I will work to do everyday, to serve the american people by helping improve the cost-of-living and competitive markets and protecting them from unfair and deceptive practices.
▶ 2:25:20Sen. Duckworth: That is good, sucking up to the president, but you did not answer my question. Do you believe the president of the united states should be able to fire ftc commissioners at will. It is a simple question.
▶ 2:25:31Mr. Meador: It is a simple question that is subject to litigation with which the ftc is involved. I cannot speak to that. What I can comment on is what I would do, which is faithfully served the american people.
▶ 2:25:42Sen. Duckworth: If the president gave you an illegal order would you carry it out?
▶ 2:25:47Mr. Meador: What I would do if confirmed is a short everyday to enforce law -- in line Sen.
▶ 2:25:52Duckworth: If the president gave you an illegal order would you carry it out?
▶ 2:25:55Mr. Meador: I would enforce the law without fear or favor.
▶ 2:25:59Sen. Duckworth: Will you carry out an illegal order if president trump gave you an illegal order to carry out?
▶ 2:26:05Mr. Meador: I would enforce the law without fear or favor to any party.
▶ 2:26:09Sen. Duckworth: So you are not answering me? Ok. Mr. meador, do you believe the ftc has any independence from the president?
▶ 2:26:17Mr. Meador: Senator, I think this falls under the same category we discussed a moment ago.
▶ 2:26:22Sen. Duckworth: Ok. You are not being willing to answer. Do you believe the president can zero out the ftc's budget without any action from congress?
▶ 2:26:31Mr. Meador: I believe congress has the power of the person and works with the president to determine the funding for the --
▶ 2:26:38Like Sen. Duckworth: Is the president allowed 20 out funding for the ftc? -- 20 out funding for the ftc?
▶ 2:26:50Mr. Meador: I'm not aware of --
▶ 2:26:52The Sen. Duckworth: I have worked infant formula which have affected families across the country. Last year the ftc issued its report on supply chain disruptions which came after a multi-your investigation. Would you commit to supporting investigations by the ftc that highlight markets where there has been a lack of competition, such as in the infant formula market?
▶ 2:27:15Mr. Meador: Yes. I think it is important that we focus our efforts where there are the most competitive horns. I would be happy to work with staff to achieve that.
▶ 2:27:24Sen. Duckworth: Do you believe the ftc has a role to play in practices that might be increasing the cost of living for americans?
▶ 2:27:32Mr. Meador: Absolutely, where we have reason to believe those violate a statute reinforced.
▶ 2:27:41Sen. Duckworth: Illinois has one of the strongest biometric privacy laws in the country. Any americans are concerned about the use of their biometric data for unauthorized purposes. In 2023 the ftc and doj charged amazon with violating children's privacy laws by keeping voice data from alexa recordings in order to make their ai smarter.
▶ 2:28:08Sen. Duckworth: In 2023 the ftc issued a policy statement about the use of biometric information. Do you agree with the principles of that ftc statement, the commission policy statement about the use of biometric information?
▶ 2:28:21Mr. Meador: I have not had occasion to review that, but I would look forward to getting up to speed on those matters.
▶ 2:28:27Sen. Duckworth: Will you report back to me?
▶ 2:28:29Mr. Meador: Yes.
▶ 2:28:30Sen. Duckworth: How would you work to protect biometric information?
▶ 2:28:34Mr. Meador: I think cooperation between the ftc and states is one of the most important things we can do. We do it a lot on the antitrust site. I think it would benefit on the consumer protection side as well.
▶ 2:28:45Sen. Duckworth: The ftc's 2023 commission policy statement about the use of biometric information raised significant concerns about the issues of biometric data, such as discrimination against protected classes, ai applications, and unauthorized leaks of biometric data. I hope you will keep that in mind. I'm going to yield back 24 seconds, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:29:07Chair Cruz: Thank you very much. Get to both of our nominees. Mr. kratsios and Mr. meador, my final question is required of all nominees. You pledge to work collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to this committee's requests and appear before this committee when requested?
▶ 2:29:27Mr. Kratsios: I do.
▶ 2:29:28Mr. Meador: Yes, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:29:30Chair Cruz: I have 17 various letters of support for multiple organizations for Mr. kratsios' nomination and Mr. meador's nomination. I ask unanimous consent to be inserted. Without objection, so ordered. Senators will have until the close of business on thursday, february 27, to submit questions for the record. The nominees will have until the close of business on monday, march third, to respond to those questions. That concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned. [gavel]