▶ 0:19:43Chair Risch: The committee will come to order. Well, I want to thank all of you for being here today. We always welcome our guests as they watch our hearing. I want to remind everyone about the protocols of the committee. We enjoy having you here to watch, but no participation of any kind in any way by the audience is tolerated.
▶ 0:20:12Chair Risch: If not you will be banned for a year. We have the honorable christopher landau to be the deputy secretary of state. We have michael john rigas to be the deputy secretary of state for management and resources and matthew george whitaker to be. We have senator ernst, senator ernst is in a hearing that I think he is presiding over.
▶ 0:20:39Chair Risch: Camping with us now -- can't be with us now. I promise senator grassley in deference to his seniority we will suspend the hearing and allow him to make a few remarks. I will postpone my opening statement until after the introductory remarks. With that, senator ernst, you're up. Welcome to our committee.
▶ 0:21:03Sen. Ernst: Thank you, chairman rich and -- chairman risch, ranking member shaheen, and it is my honor to introduce john whitaker. I would like to extend greetings to his friends and family who have joined us today.
▶ 0:21:27Sen. Ernst: Matt was raised outside of des moines iowa and went on to graduate from the university of iowa where he earned his bachelor of arts, master of business administration, and juris doctor. I have to state for the committee, and this is important, he was the university of iu hawkeye football player. He did take the team to the 1991 rose bowl. That is one of his most significant achievements.
▶ 0:21:59Sen. Ernst: And as an iowa state cyclone I try not to hold this against him. Matt has proudly and honorably served our state and country as the U.S. attorney for the southern district of iowa, in private practice, and most recently as the former acting attorney general of the united states. People are often surprised to learn how matt and I became friends.
▶ 0:22:28Sen. Ernst: It all began in 2013 during a heated five-way primary for united states senate, which culminated in 2014.
▶ 0:22:46Sen. Ernst: As we crisscrossed iowa working hard to earn the nomination for republican running for united states senate we would often run into each other at the same events, and literally we could finish each other's sentences. We knew our stump speeches so well that the joke between us was, if you can't make it to this event I will go ahead and give your stump speech for you.
▶ 0:23:14Sen. Ernst: He was once a fierce opponent, but not became a very dear friend -- but matt became a very dear friend who graciously helped me win the senate seat later that fall. Since 2014 matt has supported me in countless ways, offering wise counsel and keen insight on the issues facing our state, nation, and the world today.
▶ 0:23:39Sen. Ernst: While some may just brush it off as iowa nice, I believe this is a clear demonstration of matt's character. He is willing to put differences aside, strengthen relationships, and put our country over politics. Colleagues, I've had the privilege to travel with many of you to meet face-to-face with our nato allies.
▶ 0:24:06Sen. Ernst: Over the past few years during those exchanges a consistent theme has emerged, the need for american leadership, a willingness to speak hard truths and encourage our partners to step up. Matt's experience has prepared him for this aspect of the job. With decades of law enforcement experience and having served as the acting attorney general, matt has successfully collaborated across many organizations and jurisdictions.
▶ 0:24:35Sen. Ernst: He can articulate through first-hand knowledge the evolving global threats confronting our nation and nato allies, and he has shown the courage to take on the dangers posed by terrorism, transnational criminal networks, and those seeking to do the western world harm.
▶ 0:24:56Sen. Ernst: Matt's steady, proven leadership will be crucial in ensuring a stronger, safer world under president trump's peace through strength foreign policy. Colleagues, matt whitaker is the right person for this time and will be an excellent ambassador to nato. I urge you to support his nomination. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:25:20Chair Risch: Thank you, senator ernst. Certainly good praises for the candidate. I know that you are busy, so we will excuse you if you feel so inclined. When senator grassley gets here we will suspend the proceedings and allow him to make a few remarks for us. The way this will work is I will make an opening statement followed by senator shaheen, and then we will open it up for five minutes of questions for each member.
▶ 0:25:51Chair Risch: Perhaps a second round if we have time. As I said, in the meantime when senator grassley shows up we will recognize him. Today, we see a generational shift into american domestic and foreign policy. D.e.I. Replaced common sense and where american strength and leadership had once been respected we were seen as weak.
▶ 0:26:19Chair Risch: Last november, americans rejected the status quo and demanded change. President trump is an exceptional and strong -- president trump is an exceptional and strong but different leader, and U.S. foreign policy will reflect a new era that places the U.S. front and center. We all know that transitions are never easy, and their three witnesses before us will face challenges as the U.S.
▶ 0:26:49Chair Risch: Blazes a new trail. They have their work cut out for them. Today america faces threats from every corner of the world, hostile powers like china, russia, north korea, and iran formed an authoritarian axis that seeks to weaken the united states. These may not beach others traditional allies but their cooperation competes with american interests and values.
▶ 0:27:14Chair Risch: The chinese government steals american intellectual property, floods are streets with fentanyl, and exploits our free markets for gain while aggressively undermining american security. To counter this we need to work with allies in asia like japan, taiwan, korea, australia. We must push back on chinese influence in latin america and africa. The state department should re-energize its economic mission supporting U.S. investment in partner countries to counter predatory investment from china.
▶ 0:27:44Chair Risch: In the middle east, the fall of assad and the tremendous success of israel's war against hamas has turned the region on its head. Iran's proxy network is in tatters. We face a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to eject iran's destabilizing presence and we hope the administration will build momentum to weaken iran before even thinking about negotiations with that regime.
▶ 0:28:12Chair Risch: As negotiations with russia are ongoing securing a peaceful and permanent resolution to the war in ukraine is critical. Our first nominee, Mr. landau, has been nominated to be the deputy secretary. He had to tackle illegal immigration and drugs flowing into our country to ensuring that agricultural workers could still come during covid. I look forward to hearing about your plans to protect america in these turbulent times. Our second witness, Mr.
▶ 0:28:40Chair Risch: Rigas has been nominated for the deputy secretary management and resources, you will be uniquely situated to guide the next generation of department personnel. The american people need a state department staffed by our nation's best working to advance american interests and out-compete our adversaries. You have a tremendous opportunity to return the department to peak performance and create a unified workforce that rewards merit and accomplishment rather than d.e.I.
▶ 0:29:08Chair Risch: And divisive ideology to effectively advance our national interest I've said repeatedly that U.S. diplomats must get outside of our embassies and engage with locals. In 2022, my secure embassy construction act became law helping free our personnel to get out and do their jobs. Under the previous administration the state department did not fully implement this law and I hope under your leadership that this will be remedied. Finally, Mr. whitaker, has been nominated to be the ambassador to nato.
▶ 0:29:37Chair Risch: Today, nato remains more than ever relevant to the security of the united states and europe. Unfortunately, many nato members have taken it for granted for too long. Our european allies left the heavy lifting to us and, by their own admission, do not pull their own weight in defense spending. In 2014 russia invaded ukraine for the first time but you're at did nothing.
▶ 0:30:00Chair Risch: After the invasion of 2020 two european leaders acknowledged the threat and pledged to do more, but not all nato allies started to make the necessary investments. Today, europe, by itself, still lacks still lacks the capacity. U.S. taxpayers cannot continue to fit europe's bill without dramatic investment from europe -- foot europe' is bill without dramatic investment from europe. Europe realizes that fact.
▶ 0:30:30Chair Risch: Mr. whitaker, you will be tasked with preserving the fidelity, commitment, and integrity of nato and ensuring our allies rise to meet the challenges of an increasingly dangerous world. A tough job. At this year's summit in june, all nato allies must commit to significantly higher levels of defense spending in addition to increasing the production of defense material and recruiting.
▶ 0:30:57Chair Risch: Most have embraced the necessity of that new reality did in russia's new aggression. Mr. whitaker, I look forward to hearing from you and you will work to ensure that our allies shoulder their share of the burden and make nato more effective. The days of endless discussion is over in U.S. foreign policy, this is where the rubber meets the road. Thank you to all of our witnesses for your willingness to serve and what will be challenging times. Senator shaheen?
▶ 0:31:25Chair Risch: Senator grassley, our distinguished colleague from iowa, I understand you have a few thoughts for us?
▶ 0:31:33Sen. Grassley: Thank you to all of the members of this distinguished committee. I am here to introduce a friend and fellow ali wong -- fellow iowan, matt whitaker. He is nominated to serve our next U.S. ambassador tomato. We also welcome his family here this morning.
▶ 0:32:01Sen. Grassley: In iowa, matt is widely known for reasons I will give you, but also well known in washington for his service during the trump administration in which he served a long period of time most importantly as acting attorney general.
▶ 0:32:22Sen. Grassley: Prior to that, while serving as chief to the department of justice, matt traveled around the world meeting with world leaders on law enforcement matters, notably with chinese officials to discuss fentanyl production. During the george w. Bush administration, matt served our home state as the U.S. attorney for the southern district. That was from the years 2004-2009.
▶ 0:32:51Sen. Grassley: His years of public service in the legal and criminal justice areas demonstrate an unwavering commitment to our country and rule of law. At home in iowa, matt is known for his outstanding achievements at the stadium, the home of the iowa hawkeyes.
▶ 0:33:17Sen. Grassley: On the field matt cultivated a no-nonsense work ethic and commitment to teamwork that underscores our nation's model, out of many is one. He never let you forget about his support for the hawkeyes. He never forgets about his support for the university of iowa. It is hard for me to get him to admit that there is even a university of northern iowa.
▶ 0:33:47Sen. Grassley: [laughter] matt brings that rallying cry to no matter where he goes as an athlete, an attorney, or the top rung of our nation's law enforcement ladder.
▶ 0:34:05Sen. Grassley: I am here to sit shoulder to shoulder with a true friend this morning, with a distinguished alumnus of the university of iowa, where matt earned his undergraduate, his mba, and law degrees.
▶ 0:34:23Sen. Grassley: My colleagues on the senate foreign relations committee, I want to say thank you for allowing me to introduce an outstanding iowan for this important nomination, and I want you all to know that I extend my endorsement to this nominee to represent the united states on the world stage with our nato allies. He will do it with the same enthusiasm as he speaks about iowa football. Thank you.
▶ 0:34:53Chair Risch: Thank you, senator grassley, for those remarks. We know that you have other things to do, so you are excused. Thank you for coming to our committee and giving us those thoughts. Senator shaheen for her opening remarks.
▶ 0:35:06Sen. Shaheen: Thank you, chairman risch and each of our nominees. Welcome to your families and friends who are here with you today. Thank you for taking time to meet with me before today's hearing. In only one month this administration has managed to send much of the united states government into chaos. One of the most dangerous and concerning parts of this is the administration's attack on our foreign policy and national security agencies.
▶ 0:35:38Sen. Shaheen: Until last month, usaid programs were protecting us from diseases like ebola and bird flu. They were countering the flow of illegal weapons. They were fighting against the radicalization of young people by terror groups like isis in syria, a group that as we know has inspired strikes in the united states. Today, these programs have gone dark. For some, their fate remains unclear. It has left our country vulnerable. I have always supported government reform.
▶ 0:36:09Sen. Shaheen: I did that as governor of new hampshire. I am all for making sure that our tax dollars go to the right place. I don't think that is what this is. This is a wrecking ball. It is unilateral disarmament and our adversaries are thrilled. The house on russian state television can't believe their luck that the U.S. is withdrawing from the world and breaking its promises. China has not wasted a moment. They are stepping in where the united states is stepping down.
▶ 0:36:40Sen. Shaheen: In the wake of the poorly planned layoffs by doge, the department of government efficiency, which I have to say in quotes. Cnn has reported that russia and china are actively trying to recruit disgruntled employees. I don't believe they will be successful because those employees are committed to the service of the united states, but I just got back from a visit to ukraine and poland.
▶ 0:37:08Sen. Shaheen: When it comes to foreign aid there, the united states is completely shut down. We met with one woman who was providing services to the children of ukrainian refugees. She said that the worst part about losing assistance was that she was told she had to take down the american flags because they didn't want anyone to think that the united states was providing assistance. We talked to another man who was providing mental health services for refugees.
▶ 0:37:38Sen. Shaheen: He said, in poland we have always looked up to the united states as our dependable ally, and now we don't feel like we can trust you anymore. I'm sure ukrainians probably feel the same way. After the shouting match in the oval office last week, our most important allies in europe, nato, and around the world don't know if they can rely on the united states anymore either.
▶ 0:38:05Sen. Shaheen: The foreign aid freeze and mass termination of the wards sent my constituents -- hit my constituents in new hampshire. Shutting down usaid means we have cut 100,000 american jobs. Farmers, shippers, logistical management, pharmaceutical manufacturing. Last year, american small businesses got $1 billion in contracts from usaid. None of those businesses are going to get funding this year.
▶ 0:38:35Sen. Shaheen: I heard from a small business in concord, the capital of new hampshire. A federal contractor whose work includes counterterrorism in north africa. His contract was terminated. Billions of dollars in contracts are being terminated with no regard to how they impact our national security. No consultation with the department of defense or intelligence community or any of our allies around the world.
▶ 0:39:03Sen. Shaheen: I would like to see more detail on how secretary rubio was able to individually renew -- review, sorry, individually review, which is what they said in court documents, more than 14,000 awards as they claimed in court filings. I don't believe you reviewed 13,000 awards. Maybe our nominees can explain this. Mr.
▶ 0:39:29Sen. Shaheen: Chairman, the person we need to hear from his secretary rubio, and I hope you will take the time to come before this committee. Whether we are talking about nato or management and resources at the state department, to our nominees I would ask this.
▶ 0:39:45Sen. Shaheen: Do you believe that withdrawing from regions that need us the most, that ending our engagement in crisis zones, that taking one of our best soft power tools off the table, does that make america safer? Does it make us more prosperous? Does it make us more secure? I don't believe so, but I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thank you.
▶ 0:40:10Chair Risch: Thank you very much, senator shaheen. We will now hear from our nominees. We will welcome their families and their friends here who are anxious to hear more of an optimistic view that perhaps we just heard. These are new times calling for new times and new ways of doing business, and we are excited to look forward to how you do that.
▶ 0:40:38Chair Risch: If you will keep your remarks, please, to just a couple of few minutes, you can put anything you want in writing on the record. Let's open up and first of all hear from Mr. landau.
▶ 0:41:05Mr. Landau: I am honored to appear before you as president trump's nominee for deputy secretary of state. I appreciate the time that the members and staff of this committee have spent with me. If confirmed, I look forward to working closely with you. On a personal note, I would like to thank my wife caroline and our children, nathaniel and julia, who are here, for their love and support.
▶ 0:41:30Mr. Landau: I would like to acknowledge my late parents, george and maria landau, for introducing me to the state department and foreign service. My father was a career foreign service officer for almost 30 years and served as ambassador to three countries in south america for 13 of those years. I was more in in spain, lived in canada, paraguay, chile, and venezuela, and attended an american school for five years.
▶ 0:41:56Mr. Landau: My parents and my upbringing abroad triggered a lifelong passion for international relations that has culminated in this nomination. I only wish that my parents could be here today, which would have been my father's 105th birthday. The experience of growing up abroad in a foreign service family proved invaluable when I served during the first trump administration as the ambassador to mexico.
▶ 0:42:23Mr. Landau: My experience in mexico in turn taught me what the state department does well and what it could do better. One of the department's biggest assets is a worldwide network of foreign missions and the people who staff them, and conversely one of the biggest challenges is the constant need to sink those foreign missions with policymakers in washington. My experience in mexico highlighted how essential it is to strengthen this feedback loop.
▶ 0:42:55Mr. Landau: Policymakers in washington must provide our foreign missions with clear directions and demand accountability. And in return, our foreign missions must relay relevant and useful information back to policymakers in washington. The state department's political leadership must be able to articulate the president's foreign policy to our embassies, foreign audiences, and american people, and must demand and deliver concrete results.
▶ 0:43:25Mr. Landau: My job if confirmed will be to harness the state department's formidable worldwide footprint to make our country safer, stronger, and more prosperous. I would like to emphasize three major points. First, we must defend the sovereignty of the united states, our people, our borders, our constitution, and our laws.
▶ 0:43:54Mr. Landau: International organizations, treaties, and alliances can all be valuable tools for advancing our own national interests, but we must never forget that they are just tools and not ends in themselves. Our duty is to the people of the united states and the constitution of the united states.
▶ 0:44:13Mr. Landau: In particular, the state department must recognize that global mass migration is one of the key foreign policy challenges of our time and prioritize enforcement of our immigration laws. Second, we must leverage our national strength to secure better results for the american people in terms of both national and economic security. Our diplomacy is most effective when people know that we say what we mean and mean what we say, and that we have the resources and the willo back it up.
▶ 0:44:46Mr. Landau: Our country's economic and military might should allow us to rack up one victory after another and steer clear of wars and foreign interventions. Sadly, this hasn't been the case in recent decades. Third, I believe you touched on this, Mr. chairman, we must restore commercial statecraft as a pillar of foreign policy.
▶ 0:45:08Mr. Landau: Our founders understood trade with foreign nations, but for a long time economic and commercial affairs have been relegated to second-class status at the state department, and our nation has racked up massive trade deficits with foreign countries.
▶ 0:45:23Mr. Landau: We must work with the private sector to open new markets for american goods and services come out-hussle foreign competitors, and attract foreign investment to the united states we must ensure that our trade and commercial relations are fair and that other countries don't take advantage of our markets without affording us reciprocal access to theirs. These are just a few of the key areas in which I hope to work and focus if confirmed.
▶ 0:45:49Mr. Landau: Again, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:46:00Chair Risch: Thank you, Mr. landau. It's great to hear from someone who has been on the front lines and is now going to mission with management at the state department. You certainly have a background that qualifies you for that. Mr. rigas, five minutes.
▶ 0:46:08Mr. Rigas: Thank you, Mr. chairman, members of the committee, for the opportunity to appear before you. It is an honor to be deputy secretary of management and resources and I would like to thank president trump for the opportunity to serve. I would like to thank my wife laura, my parents john and zoe, and my siblings and family and friends who are here with me today for their support.
▶ 0:46:36Mr. Rigas: I want to recognize my daughter, mary elizabeth, who is at her first confirmation hearing today, and my nephew who is at his second. My parents, my siblings and I were taught the importance of public service as a way to get back to this great country from which they -- to which they immigrated. By father spent 25 years as a public school teacher and among the seven children in our family, five are in public service today.
▶ 0:47:04Mr. Rigas: I would like to thank my members of the committee and committee staff who took the time to meet with me during this process. I look forward to working with each of you if confirmed to address the challenges and opportunities before the state department today. I would also like to thank the staff of the state department for their support during this process. The role do which I have been nominated has enormous responsibility over how the state department is managed and how its resources are deployed.
▶ 0:47:32Mr. Rigas: I hope to bring my over 30 years of management and leadership experience to bear on the challenges facing the department. I believe my experience in the private sector, as well as my prior service at the general services administration, the office of personnel management, and the office of management and budget have prepared me for this role.
▶ 0:47:53Mr. Rigas: If confirmed, I look forward to the opportunity to help president trump, secretary rubio, and the dedicated career officers at the state department carry out the president's bold vision for an america first foreign policy. Our country faces a number of challenges around the world today, and if confirmed I will work to ensure the state department is able to meet those challenges.
▶ 0:48:17Mr. Rigas: For my role, I believe this means making sure that we have the right people with the right skills doing the right things in the right places. Who are the right people? The right people are our fellow citizens, members of the civil and foreign service, working around the country and around the world supported by american contractors and locally-employed staff. What are the right skills?
▶ 0:48:41Mr. Rigas: The right skills include the knowledge, our economic and political affairs officers need to understand the american economy and how we can compete and win abroad. The linguistics skills of our foreign service officers, the skills required by consular officers, passport processors, diplomatic security, and others who allow the state department to carry out the president's foreign policy and serve american citizens and american interests. Where are the right places?
▶ 0:49:10Mr. Rigas: The right places are wherever we need to bring america's best talent and skills to bear on the challenges that we face as a nation, and wherever america's political, economic, national security interests need to be advanced and defended. What are the right things? Ensuring that secretary rubio -- as a secretary rubio said, every dollar we spend, every program we fund, every policy we pursue must be justified with the answer to three simple questions. Does it make america safer?
▶ 0:49:41Mr. Rigas: Does it make america stronger? Does it make america more prosperous? Every day I will work to make sure that we are good stewards of the resources that you entrust to the department of state as we meet the high standard set by the president and secretary. I also want to emphasize that reducing waste, fraud, and abuse will be a key area of focus for me. I know that every dollar we spend, every program we fund come from the labor of a taxpaying american family.
▶ 0:50:13Mr. Rigas: Every $100 that we spend could have been a gift for family's college fund.every $1000 that we spend could have been the car repairs that a family needs for their daily commute. Every $10,000 could have been a families down payment on their first home. In each of my previous professional leadership roles, I believe that I left those organizations and a better position than I found them. I hope to make a positive, meaningful impact here in my role at the state department.
▶ 0:50:41Mr. Rigas: In each of the successes that I've made previously, it was made possible because of the dedicated men and women I've had the privilege of serving with who have worked together as a team to achieve a shared vision of a better workplace for our organization and better service for our customers and taxpayers. It would be an honor to serve at the state department if confirmed, and I want to thank the committee for considering my nomination.
▶ 0:51:11Mr. Rigas: I look forward to answering any questions you might have.
▶ 0:51:12Chair Risch: Thank you very much, Mr. rigas. It is good to see someone come through the ranks and know what they are taking cold about the state department. It's a big job, no question. Mr. whitaker.
▶ 0:51:23Mr. Whitaker: I would like to thank my friends, chuck grassley and joni ernst, both senators from iowa. As an iowan like picking your favorite child, picking your favorite senator is hard with those two superstars. I would like to thank my family for joining me. Chairman risch, ranking member shaheen, members of the committee, thank you for being here. I'm honored to appear before U.S. president trumps nominee to serve as the united states ambassador to nato.
▶ 0:51:52Mr. Whitaker: I'm grateful to president trump for his confidence and for this committee for its consideration. If confirmed, I will work tirelessly to strengthen the alliance and ensure the security of the american people and poled our nations role as the beacon of freedom and liberty. It has been in honor of a lifetime to have served in two administrations. Through my career I've overseen critical issues related to national security, law enforcement, the protection of U.S. interests domestically and abroad.
▶ 0:52:20Mr. Whitaker: My experience managing the department of justice has equipped me well to navigate the complexities of nato. As a former college football player at the university of iowa, I understand that for a team to be strong, for nato to be strong and successful, every player on the field, all 32 allies, must be strong. President trump has been clear. The united states remains committed to nato and to the principle of peace through strength.
▶ 0:52:45Mr. Whitaker: That principle has guided -- has guided nato's founding and remains vital today as ever. During president trumps first term come america was strong and our strength sent a message to the rest of the world. Peace prevailed with no new conflicts, isis was decimated, soleimani was brought to final justice, the groundbreaking abraham accords were signed, and america was safe and powerful.
▶ 0:53:13Mr. Whitaker: I stand firm with president trump in promoting peace abroad and security and prosperity at home. Strength deters aggression and history has taught us that when america leads the world is safer. I believe that a robust nato can continue to serve as a bedrock of peace and prosperity, but its vitality rests on every ally doing its fair share. By growing our economies and investing in our comment offense, the free world will thrive and reach new heights of achievement.
▶ 0:53:43Mr. Whitaker: Under president trump's leadership, nato will be stronger and more effective than ever before. It is important to remember what george washington said in his first annual address to congress. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. In the spirit of president washington's wise counsel, we must recognize that true leadership demands fairness, accountability, and shared sacrifice among nations. Leadership is not charity.
▶ 0:54:11Mr. Whitaker: The american people have carried the burden of global security for too long. For decades U.S. taxpayers have funded the lion's share of nato's defense well toomey allies have failed to meet even the most basic -- while it too many allies have failed to meet even the most basic obligations. President trump has been clear on this issue. Nato allies must meet their obligations.
▶ 0:54:40Mr. Whitaker: The united states will no longer subsidize nations who refuse to pay their fair share. That is why, if confirmed, I will work to advance a policy of peace through strength while ensuring that all nato members meet a minimum defense spending level of 5%, thereby ensuring that nato is the most successful military alliance in history. This is not just an american mandate, it is a necessity for their survival of the alliance. Russia and ukraine are at war. China is expanding its military influence.
▶ 0:55:10Mr. Whitaker: Rogue states like iran and north korea continue to destabilize global security. Terrorist organizations remain intent on striking the west. The threats are real and will not wait for bureaucratic debates or half measures. That is why our nato allies must , first, commit to spending at least 5% of their gdp on defense with no exceptions, no excuses. Prioritize modernization and interoperability, because outdated forces and strategies cannot deter modern threats.
▶ 0:55:40Mr. Whitaker: Expand contributions to nato, missions, and readiness, and prepare for hybrid threats and asymmetrical warfare. I want to recognize and express my gratitude to those allies who are doing everything that is asked of them. Your contributions have not gone unnoticed. Our mission is not to just deter, but to defeat those who seek to do us harm. That means reinforcing our military capabilities and entering nato is the premier force in the region.
▶ 0:56:10Mr. Whitaker: Strength is not only in our military power, it is in our resolve. The spirit of this alliance come the spirit of america. We stand at a crossroads. We can either commit to a nato that is strong, capable, prepared, or allow hesitation and inaction to embolden our adversaries. I know which path I choose. Lesser member what reagan said it nato's 35th anniversary. -- let's remember what reagan said it nato's 35th anniversary.
▶ 0:56:36Mr. Whitaker: It has been challenged, but in every decade the nations of the alliance have consistently pulled together to maintain peace through their collective strength and determination. Peace is secured through strength. In steadfast partnership with those willing to defend it. Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:56:54Chair Risch: Thank you. Thanks much, Mr. whitaker. We will do a round of questions, five minutes to each allotted five minutes to each of the members of the committee. I will start. I want to start, Mr. landau, with you.
▶ 0:57:10Chair Risch: I am assuming that you agree on the importance of our alliances in asia, to push back against china and the fact that that will be important as we proceed through this 21st century with the ascendance of china. Can you give us your thoughts?
▶ 0:57:29Mr. Landau: 100%, sir. Thank you for that question. I think that you put your finger on the key geopolitical challenge of our times for our country, the rise of the people's republic of china, both economically and militarily, to now be our nation's foremost strategic competitor all around the world.
▶ 0:57:55Mr. Landau: There was a reference in one of the statements that they are not only in their region, but also in africa, latin america. I think that this is the biggest overall challenge to our nation's role in the world today. I think you have also correctly identified one of the key tools that we have the counter it. We are not alone.
▶ 0:58:19Mr. Landau: There are particularly the folks in china's neighborhood who have at least as strong of an interest in countering china's rise and working closely with us. We have a number of organizations, obviously japan is a very close ally of ours. Korea, the republic of korea. The aussie on nations. We have the quad with india, australia, and japan.
▶ 0:58:50Mr. Landau: You have correctly identified trying to counter china's rise, we should work with all of the nations in the region. The philippines, vietnam, they are really on the front lines. We need to work very closely, but we also need to muster our economic forces around the world and unleash our private sector.
▶ 0:59:17Mr. Landau: I think for too long, and diluted to this in my statement, the united -- and I alluded to this in my statement, the U.S. has not -- commercial practices. If china has been engaged in some kind of coercive investment in certain countries, we've seen that in sri lanka and other parts of the world, but in other parts of the world they are out-hustling us. Our private sector isn't on the ground were needed with the U.S. government.
▶ 0:59:46Mr. Landau: If I'm confirmed, I would love to work with the private sector. When I was in mexico come the chinese ambassador could go to a state and basically promise investment because they have state-owned companies. If I would go to a state and they would talk about investment needs and resources, I would have to go to the private sector. I can't tell them what we are going to do.
▶ 1:00:07Mr. Landau: I think it's critical to unleash the incredible, unmatched in the world american private-sector to help promote our national interest in developing some of these countries. Frankly, obviously in a way that produces results for them too.
▶ 1:00:24Chair Risch: Well said. Mr. whitaker, you come in to take over this job at nato in a particularly sensitive time. As I said in my opening statement, and I think you referred to also, the fact that we will require our european friends and allies to step up. This is the most successful military alliance in the history of the world. We are proud of it. It is stronger today than it has ever been.
▶ 1:00:53Chair Risch: The media focuses on our squabbles, but doesn't point to the fact that by adding sweden and finland we have dramatically increased the effectiveness and power of nato. Having said all that, as senator shaheen referred to, when someone has been supplying certain things and they decide, well, they are not going to pay the whole tab, a giant share of the tab, and ask people to step up, people push back. It's human nature. It happens.
▶ 1:01:25Chair Risch: We are seeing that in other areas, too. Your job is going to be to go over there and convince them that they're going to have to step up. The good news is, you are seeing what we have been preaching for years. That they do need to step up. That they cannot be requiring us, as has been pointed out, to pay a bigger share than we should pay.
▶ 1:01:49Chair Risch: This alliance is a very wealthy complex of countries and economies similar to the united states and they should be able to step up. Can you give your thoughts briefly, because I'm running out of time? You know the challenge and I know the challenge. In short order, what are you going to do about it?
▶ 1:02:12Mr. Whitaker: Thank you you, chairman. In my one second that is left, I will tell you. [laughter] I have no concerns that our european allies and canada can all do more. They want to do more. It's pretty clear if you read what they've said over the last month or two. At the end of the day, words don't matter.
▶ 1:02:34Mr. Whitaker: It is going to be actions from our allies, and I fully expect that they will do what's necessary to continue to make nato the strongest alliance ever on the history of the planet.
▶ 1:02:44Chair Risch: You're going to be involved in the debate in june, as you know, when they talk about the 2.5%. That was everybody's agreement and we are still a few short, sit will be even tougher as we step up. The good news is, they recognize it and the vast majority are willing to step up. Senator shaheen?
▶ 1:03:05Sen. Shaheen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. landau and Mr. rigas, I heard from a usaid contractor in new hampshire who is carrying out a project to combat tuberculosis in myanmar, that has been turned off because of the administration's stop work order on foreign aid. The contractor reported to us that a shipment of drugs is now sitting in a warehouse because they cannot be delivered. The U.S.
▶ 1:03:32Sen. Shaheen: Government will cover the cost of the drugs and storage fees and will pay more than they would have without the stop work order appear the drugs are expiring and the people who need them are suffering without the medication. This is one of the many examples that we've heard about because of the stop work order. I think that this is a senseless waste of money.
▶ 1:04:00Sen. Shaheen: As I said in my opening statement, I don't think it makes us stronger, more prosperous, or more secure. I would ask you, Mr. landau, tuberculosis is a communicable disease that travels across borders. Drug-resistant tb is a growing risk locally. Yes or no, do you believe cutting off our assistance to combat tuberculosis outbreaks makes america safer, stronger, and more prosperous? Yes or no? Yes or no?
▶ 1:04:30Sen. Shaheen: Yes or no?
▶ 1:04:31Mr. Landau: I have to give some context.
▶ 1:04:34Sen. Shaheen: I know the context. Do you think that this is a good position for the united states to take to stop foreign aid without any question about what the consequences will be on tuberculosis and the threat that it poses across borders, including in the united states?
▶ 1:04:50Mr. Landau: Senator, I have before me senator rubio's waiver which says all life-saving medicine, medical services, food, shelter, and substance assistance has been wavered for the 90-s the 90-day freeze.
▶ 1:05:09Sen. Shaheen: Nothing is happening because of those waivers. While secretary rubio has told us that there are waivers, we know that, of the 5400 or so programs from usaid, only 500 of those have been turned back on, and the funding isn't going to help address tuberculosis and other humanitarian needs that we have.
▶ 1:05:35Sen. Shaheen: I guess, I would ask you, if confirmed, will you ensure that if humanitarian waivers have been granted that there will be an effort to make sure that the funding follows those and that those programs that are life-saving, that make a difference to our allies and ultimately to the united states get turned back on?
▶ 1:05:57Mr. Landau: Absolutely, senator.
▶ 1:05:58Sen. Shaheen: Another example that we heard last week is that the administration terminated programs in syria to destroy chemical weapons. They also stopped programs, as I said in my opening statement, to provide support to the camp which holds isis fighters and detainees from the fight against isis. Again, I would ask you, do you think that stopping those efforts makes us safer and more
▶ 1:06:29Prosperous Mr. Landau: And stronger? I know that you were one of the most bipartisan senators on these issues and I would commit to working with you to make sure that as we identify what here is the baby at what is the bathwater. As you talk about medical, some of these critical things, they are also discovering that 2 million dollars is going to transgender clinics in guatemala.
▶ 1:06:52Sen. Shaheen: That is a red herring. I'm all for getting rid of that $2 million going to that transgender clinic. I don't think that you would get any disagreement from the majority of members of congress about that. But that is a red herring. It doesn't account for the thousands of programs, the millions of dollars, the thousands of people who are being laid off who provide those services around the world that do make us safer, stronger, and more prosperous.
▶ 1:07:21Mr. Landau: Senator, I agree. If confirmed, I commit to working closely with you so that we can identify -- I would like to hear what you come your staff, the programs you identified. It's an ongoing process precisely to review these programs to separate the kind that you're talking about from the kind that I mentioned. They are both in the bucket. The goal is to actually be good stewards of taxpayer money. Thank you.
▶ 1:07:46Sen. Shaheen: Based on that, would you agree that dismantling all of our foreign assistance toolkit is not an approach that makes sense without reviewing the programs and seeing which are effective and which are not?
▶ 1:08:01Mr. Landau: What is going on right now, as I understand, is exactly such a review. I don't think anything is permanently dismantled. We are in a 90 day period where these programs are being reviewed, waivers are being granted in particular circumstances. If the waivers are not effectuated, I'm happy to discuss that with you and your staff to make sure that when the secretary grants a waiver that that waiver is going through. I understand your concerns. Again, I can commit to making sure that that happens.
▶ 1:08:31Sen. Shaheen: I am out of time, but we will resume the conversation when I get another round.
▶ 1:08:37Chair Risch: Thank you. I think what senator shaheen brings to the forefront is inc. Said all of us in congress have heard. -- is things that all of us in congress have heard. There are programs being looked at and it is a daunting task. I sat with senator -- excuse me, secretary rubio. We looked at the list of thousands of programs.
▶ 1:08:59Chair Risch: In their we know that there is stuff, senator shaheen indicated, that are critical to the national security of the united states and there are other things that ought not to be in there. For years, this has gone unchallenged. We are supposed to be oversight. The oversight of those hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of programs is really daunting. You have a task in front of you, I'm sure that senator shaheen will hold you to the commitment that you've made.
▶ 1:09:29Chair Risch: That you want to find the ones that are good for america and save them. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you to our nominees for your service to our great nation and thank you to the families who make it possible for you to do that. I really appreciate that. We know that none of us could be in this business if we didn't have love from our families. Thank you for that.
▶ 1:09:56Chair Risch: On wednesday, xi jinping's top advisor overseeing taiwan affairs urged communist china to shape, this is a quote, to shape the inevitable reunification of the motherland. And quote -- end quote. Then mort taiwan, we will come and get you sooner rather than later. This has been backed by aggressive actions by communist china.
▶ 1:10:23Chair Risch: Last week a communist group -- communist crewed cargo ship severed a -- beijing then launched a live fire exercise 40 nautical miles off of taiwan's coastline.
▶ 1:10:43Chair Risch: Ambassador landau, given communist china' increaseds aggressive aggressivion towards taiwan, what actions will you take to support taiwan self-defense?
▶ 1:11:05Mr. Landau: Thank you, senator. Thanks for the excellent conversation that we had in your office, and I appreciate, again, your focus on china, which is our major strategic competitor throughout the world. We have heard some very bellicose remarks like that.
▶ 1:11:22Mr. Landau: The president has made clear that his top priority in that part of the world is peace and stability on both sides of the taiwan strait, and that the united states firmly rejects any unilateral change in the status quo on either side of that and any resolution of that dispute by force.
▶ 1:11:42Mr. Landau: We've had a consistent one china policy since the 1970's, as reflected in the taiwan relations act, as reflected in the joint communiques and six assurances. I think the best way to deter that, and Mr. whitaker spoke to this a moment ago in the european context, but it's equally true in east asia, as george washington said, the best way to deter war is to be strong.
▶ 1:12:13Mr. Landau: The chinese leadership respects strength, as I discussed in my earlier colloquy with senator risch. It is important for the united states to work with our allies in the area to make it clear for everybody what the terrible consequences would be for the entire world, including the united states, if china, or any of the actors in that region, were to take unilateral action to disrupt the status quo on
▶ 1:12:44Mr. Landau: Either side of the taiwan straits unilaterally.
▶ 1:12:47Sen. Ricketts: What can you do if confirmed to help specifically with taiwan's self-defense?
▶ 1:12:53Mr. Landau: We have good relations with taiwan. We work with them. I think the taiwanese have a need to up their game in terms of their own defense spending, and that is something that is obviously on the table. We need to work, again, with our regional allies in the area. The quad nations. I think secretary rubio's first meeting was with the quad.
▶ 1:13:24Mr. Landau: We need to send a clear message to china that they are very much imperiling world peace if they continue this kind of saber rattling and consider unilateral actions in that area.
▶ 1:13:37Sen. Ricketts: How can the united states better respond to or help taiwan respond to the escalatory military drills that communist china is doing around taiwan. What can we do to get them to stop these drills, the gray zone activity, that sort of thing?
▶ 1:13:54Mr. Landau: Senator, we work with our allies in that area. We work with japan, korea, australia, india, the philippines, vietnam. We are refurbishing our bases in the philippines, our former bases. I think that we can work with all of the countries in the region to let china know, this is not just a problem that you have with the united states.
▶ 1:14:21Mr. Landau: These are issues that implicate your relationships with all of your neighbors and with the world. Let me emphasize, the president emphasized the other day in a press conference that he wants good relations with china. We are not looking to enter into a war with china, or implacable in the tea with china.
▶ 1:14:40Mr. Landau: There is great win-win situations c1 we hope we can focus on the positive side of the relationship to increase the prosperity for our peoples instead of going down a path of further bellicosity. My job would be to encourage and move in that direction.
▶ 1:15:10Chair Risch: Senator coons.
▶ 1:15:12Senator Coons: Thank you to the nominees and for your willingness to serve. Mr. whitaker, I have an aunt and uncle who live in iowa city and I'm familiar with the buckeye football and your record there. I appreciate you citing ronald reagan and your understanding of teamwork. I think you would get uniform agreement from the members of this committee that our nato partners need to pull their weight.
▶ 1:15:42Senator Coons: Are you familiar with the article five provisions of the nato treaty?
▶ 1:15:45Mr. Whitaker: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:15:47Sen. Coons: When has it been invoked?
▶ 1:15:50Mr. Whitaker: After the attack on september 11.
▶ 1:15:53Sen. Coons: Are then 29 nato allies deployed their weight. I would argue that after russia's aggressive invasion of ukraine three years ago, it continued to do the same. In total, they have delivered more support, support for refugees, their economy. If you are confirmed, I was encouraged to hear you say you do it as a strong and vital alliance and you look forward to strengthening it.
▶ 1:16:26Sen. Coons: Would it strengthen our alliance for us to abandon ukraine?
▶ 1:16:34Mr. Whitaker: Thank you for that question. Obviously the situation on the battlefield in ukraine is brutal. It is another land war in europe.
▶ 1:16:47Sen. Coons: Doesn't serve our national interest to abandon ukraine?
▶ 1:16:51Mr. Whitaker: What is in our national interest is a broad question.
▶ 1:16:57Sen. Coons: I have three minutes. Not time for broad questions. From my view and I think this is broadly shared, pulling in the same direction is what a team does, showing up, suiting up, getting in the fight and pulling in the same direction is what a team with clear eyed leadership does.
▶ 1:17:18Sen. Coons: Whatever that was last friday, I hope we can get back on track in a united approach with our vital allies instead of confusing them, dividing them, having a push for greater investment in nato as a united force would be a great mission for you. I'm concerned that that is not the direction that recent conversations between president zelenskyy and president trump will lead us. I'm encouraged, Mr.
▶ 1:17:45Sen. Coons: Landau, that you come from a foreign service family and that you respect and understand the critical role our foreign service plays. You spoke well about the skills they develop over many years.
▶ 1:18:00Sen. Coons: I have visited our foreign service all over the world and I'm deeply impressed with their skills and I've also visited usaid missions and programs all over the world and I'm heartsick and angry at what I view as a chaotic, poorly executed chainsaw that has been taken to what our critical ngo partners and usaid work around the world.
▶ 1:18:25Sen. Coons: As senator shaheen said, we all expected there would be reform, that there would be a thorough and disciplined look at how to tighten and focus and align usaid's development work, instead what we have seen in recent weeks has been chaotic, thousands have been laid off.
▶ 1:18:44Sen. Coons: I have met over and over with ngo leaders who have said that the whipsaw of stop work orders, waivers, and then the failure to turn the money back on across exactly those programs that were proclaimed as critical, lifesaving humanitarian programs has resulted in household name ngo's, catholic relief services, save the children, care, laying off thousands, shutting down programs all over the world.
▶ 1:19:15Sen. Coons: If confirmed, will you commit to sharing with us the process you used to get to where this is, whether or not these waivers have ever been respected and to work with us to make sure we do not abandon this critical tool of U.S. foreign policy in the face of chinese aggression around the world?
▶ 1:19:33Sen. Coons: >> senator, this committee plays a very important role in helping fashion the foreign policy of the united states of which these programs are a part so I certainly do commit to you to discussing, I would love to hear what programs you think are the most important and the broader effect.
▶ 1:20:06Sen. Coons: And making sure that the implementation is done appropriately. If there is a waiver granted that the money will actually be flowing again.
▶ 1:20:14Sen. Coons: I have not heard of a single example of the waiver being granted. We have literally just unilaterally disarmed one of the most vital tools in that work to deliver peace through strength in the face of chinese aggression.
▶ 1:20:41Sen. Coons: I'm glad senator risch recognized that china is expanding its influence and we have confused our partners, we have encouraged our adversaries and abandoning americans who have spent decades overseas and leaving this space weather confronting human trafficking, combating pandemics or pushing back against russia an china and their malign influence, this
▶ 1:21:13Sen. Coons: Was a horrible own goal that I eagerly want to work with you to try to address because frankly tens of billions of dollars have been cut in the name of pursuing a few million dollars here and there.
▶ 1:21:30Sen. Coons: If thousands have been laid off, we have abandoned a key tool of our success in the cold war the residence from kennedy to reagan record highs as critical tools in our toolbox, then we have made a profound error that will produce weakness through chaos, not peace through strength. Thank you.
▶ 1:22:00Chair Risch: Thank you very much. The sooner we get these guys in place, the sooner we will be able to rectify some of these things. With that I'm going to move to senator cornyn. >> thank you. Thank you to the nominees for appearing before us at what is undoubtedly a consequential time and no doubt you will serve honorably and ably.
▶ 1:22:28Chair Risch: Earlier in my career I served in several roles in the government and I saw firsthand the importance of foreign assistance for national security. I'm concerned.
▶ 1:22:44Chair Risch: I think we have more than a few examples of foreign aid and the bureaucracy getting ahead of itself supporting an ideological agenda and that is why I supported the review but now that the review is can lead or near completion I want to give you a chance to clarify that we are continuing aid programs that make america safer, stronger and more prosperous.
▶ 1:23:15Chair Risch: Especially for combating china's belt and rode initiative. Provide insights into china's opaque economy and provide her nations with alternatives. Do you expect or are we continuing those efforts? >> thank you for the question. I look forward if confirmed to looking under the hood in terms of what is going on.
▶ 1:23:47Chair Risch: I don't think it has concluded yet. To the extent that aid is going to be flowing toward efforts to counter the prc and the belt and rode initiative from the president statements, he has been clear about the challenge china faces. He views china as a strategic competitor to the united states.
▶ 1:24:15Chair Risch: I don't think he talks about them as being an adversary as they are vigorously pursuing their own interests. I don't want to pursue -- presume what actions the president will take. I don't think his past statements should because for concern in terms of programs that are being undertaken to counter china's belt and rode initiative.
▶ 1:24:43Sen. Mccormick: While I probably disagree about the magnitude of the abusive spending, I do agree that there are certain foreign aid initiatives that I would suggest to you that those combating china which I do view as an adversary are particularly relevant and I want to make sure we talk about that in the future.
▶ 1:25:09Sen. Mccormick: I would like to flag for you the corporation that had much more performance-based and how they provided our role models here and how do you expect those to be integrated into our foreign aid strategy?
▶ 1:25:29Sen. Mccormick: >> it has been repeated a few times that we should look at all of the programs and spending and aid we are engaged in at the state department. Does that make america stronger and more prosperous?
▶ 1:25:51Sen. Mccormick: Having some kind of metrics applied to this spending so they can look at not just the out but but what are the outcomes we are getting from all of these programs? I would welcome the opportunity to work with your staff across the entire spectrum of state.
▶ 1:26:14Sen. Mccormick: Mr. whitaker, good to see you. I think we both agree president trump laid out a credible path to peace with ukraine with an economic arrangement and an agreement or hope of stopping the fighting. We also both agreed that europe stepping up in a much more significant way was key. How is that going to happen?
▶ 1:26:49Sen. Mccormick: How do you see it playing out?
▶ 1:26:56Mr. Whitaker: If confirmed, I will be right in the middle of those conversations. I think our european partners in nato understand the challenge. The question is how fast can they rise to the challenge? I'm planning on going there in the first 30 days and meeting with every single ally one-on-one and finding out what their path to 5% is.
▶ 1:27:40Sen. Mccormick: I agree with senator coons that nato did step up after 9/11 but I also will know that despite decades of constant pressure from american presidents including democrats nato continues to underinvest relative to its very commitments. I hope you will be able to convince them that is in their interest to do so.
▶ 1:28:06Chair Risch: Senator murphy.
▶ 1:28:09Senator Murphy: Mr. landau, I deeply appreciate your service to this country and your willingness to come before this committee but I will be honest with you, I find it pretty offensive that you are trying to maintain that there is some good faith review happening at usaid, when the representatives of the administration in charge of cost-cutting have made it clear that the goal is to destroy usaid.
▶ 1:28:40Senator Murphy: Do you know what percentage of usaid employees have been fired or furloughed?
▶ 1:28:45Mr. Landau: Senator, I do not. I'm here as a private citizen so I'm not part of the administration at this point.
▶ 1:28:52Sen. Murphy: You don't have a ballpark gas? You are about to help lead america's diplomatic efforts. You don't have a ballpark gas?
▶ 1:29:02Mr. Landau: Again, I just looked at the way the president set this forth and he has instituted a 90 day review period.
▶ 1:29:11Sen. Murphy: You haven't read reports you might be able to cite today? Mr. landau: I've seen some reports in the press but I want to be careful before I start acting as if I know what is going on behind the scenes. I'm not part of the administration yet. If I'm confirmed you can call before me for oversight.
▶ 1:29:29Sen. Murphy: So the number is 94%. 94% of usaid staff have been fired or essentially permanently furloughed. You stated to us that you believe this is a good faith 90 day review. And yet you actually don't know how many people have been fired or furloughed.
▶ 1:29:53Sen. Murphy: How can you come to the conclusion that this is a good faith review when you actually don't know the extent of the terminations? Wouldn't it be relevant as to the question of whether it was a good faith review if 94% of the agency had already been terminated?
▶ 1:30:11Mr. Landau: Senator again, I think it is important to recognize what are the programs and how are these people --
▶ 1:30:19Sen. Murphy: How are you coming to the conclusion this is a good faith review if you don't know what is happening? You can't have it both ways and come to the committee and say I know this is a good faith review, but I don't know anything that is happening because I'm not in the administration.
▶ 1:30:34Mr. Landau: There is a presumption of governmental regularity that exists. I believe strongly that the president wants to comply with the law, wants to make sure that we are doing the american taxpayers' bidding by looking carefully at these programs and making sure that we separate the baby from the bathwater.
▶ 1:30:59Sen. Murphy: I just don't think you can have it both ways and tell us you know this is a good faith review but assert that you don't have any base of information about what is happening. Which article -- which branch of government has the power to decide how taxpayer money is spent? The legislative branch, the judicial branch, the executive branch? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 1:31:23Sen. Murphy: I don't need an explanation. >> congress has the power of the purse. The executive has the power to make sure the laws are implemented and the courts arborist rate disputes between those two branches.
▶ 1:31:36Sen. Murphy: If congress has authorized an agency or department and has appropriated money with the caveat that the money shall be spent, does the administration have the obligation to spend that money in accordance with how congress has appropriated it?
▶ 1:31:59Mr. Rigas: Senator, I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is the executive has a role in how those moneys are spent.
▶ 1:32:18Sen. Murphy: I think republicans and democrats should care about the answer to this question. That is a pretty easy one. If congress has authorized a function and has appropriated dollars with the word shall, you believe the executive branch can decide not to spend those dollars?
▶ 1:32:32Mr. Rigas: I'm familiar with mandatory entitlement programs which has that language and those are on autopilot.
▶ 1:32:39Sen. Murphy: It is not an entitlement program. To give you an example. The national endowment for democracy is established by law. We appropriate every year and we say that the dollars appropriated, 315 million dollars, shall be spent. You are going to oversee spending at the department of state. Do you believe that the executive branch could choose not to spend dollars that are appropriated by congress with a shall rather than a make?
▶ 1:33:09Mr. Rigas: I don't think so but I'm not the ultimate arbiter of that question.
▶ 1:33:14Sen. Murphy: You are the arbiter, you are being nominated for the job that would decide how those dollars are being spent.
▶ 1:33:21Mr. Rigas: I think the question at hand is on what the money is being spent.
▶ 1:33:27Sen. Murphy: We decide how the money is spent and you are supposed to execute it. If we say $315 million in be spent at the national endowment to democracy, do you believe you have the ability to deny that money to be spent on the function? This is a really important question.
▶ 1:33:43Mr. Rigas: I don't think so.
▶ 1:33:45Sen. Murphy: You don't think so? Yes or no.
▶ 1:33:48Mr. Rigas: I think if that is what the law says that that is what needs to happen.
▶ 1:33:53Sen. Murphy: Ok, thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:33:55Chair Risch: Thank you. Senator daines.
▶ 1:33:59Senator Daines: Thank you. Mr. whitaker, I want to start with you. We had a great meeting. Thank you for stopping by my office. I have a sweetheart from iowa. Go hawkeyes here.
▶ 1:34:23Senator Daines: We talked a lot about nato, you go back to the 2014 nato summit declaration, it has taken most members a decade to meet that 2% gdp defense spending and that was only after the outbreak of the war in ukraine.
▶ 1:34:44Senator Daines: It is now becoming more and more apparent that 2% is not sufficient to meet security demands looking at the chart that lists nato allies here. Of the top 10 in terms of spending, there were three that didn't even meet the 2% goal. Italy, 1.5 percent. Canada, 1.4%.
▶ 1:35:14Senator Daines: But it is one of the top 10 spenders. Spain at 1.3%. I think we both agreed to percent is not enough and yet they are not even meeting that in some cases. You have stated support for this 5% spending requirement and taking a page out of ronald reagan's playbook of peace through strength.
▶ 1:35:41Senator Daines: What are your thoughts of additional requirements on investment spending to ensure modern military capabilities at nato?
▶ 1:35:51Mr. Whitaker: Thank you, senator. I enjoyed the time together in your office. What I would say is quite simply that we need to do much more and for 10 years of under spending up until the outbreak in 2022 of the war in ukraine I think is really a weakness of the alliance and I think now we are
▶ 1:36:22Mr. Whitaker: Getting a lot of positive words from our nato allies that they will spend dramatically more, that they finally understand this time. We also have allies like poland and some in the baltics who have been in message much more. We have to make sure we don't group everybody.
▶ 1:36:51Mr. Whitaker: There are allies who are doing more because of the geopolitical location but at this wall, we do want more it is how long it's been. To address the hybrid threats in cyber and space. We are seeing sea cables cut in the baltic sea.
▶ 1:37:18Mr. Whitaker: All of these issues, nato is on the forefront and that alliance should be equipped to address those threats and continue to be the best alliance ever conceived. I would be happy to report back on what I find as soon as I get over there. And here what our allies are saying publicly and privately and what they are actually doing.
▶ 1:37:44Sen. Daines: Thank you, I'm going to shift gears to Mr. landau. Iran is the world's leading sponsor of terror. Funding a network of proxies and ballistic missiles and the nuclear emissions programs. Due to recent actions by the trump administration and our allies in israel, iran is finally on its back foot after four years of appeasement.
▶ 1:38:17Sen. Daines: We can't lose sight of the long-term goal of permanently eradicating the terrorist network. How do you plan to further degrade the iranian proxy networks and influence campaigns elsewhere?
▶ 1:38:42Mr. Landau: Thank you for that question and thank you for the great meeting in our office. I think the president and secretary rubio have pursued pressure on iran. Iran was back on its heels at that time. Unfortunately, that position was not followed in the subsequent administration and we saw a ron get much more aggressive again.
▶ 1:39:19Mr. Landau: We have to work with israel to make se that iran cannot be an exporter of terror. All the countries in the middle east want to work with us. Chairman, back to you.
▶ 1:39:39Chair Risch: Thank you. Thanks being here. I have been in the senate for more than 10 years. I'm not going to ask a question. Because we haven't had secretary rubio here to talk about the evisceration of usaid, it is important for us to understand what happened.
▶ 1:40:08Chair Risch: It is important to understand that the so-called department of government deficiency has said they will feed usaid to the wood chipper. That does not sound like a good faith review. They said it would be a 90 day review.
▶ 1:40:24Chair Risch: And then when a federal court and then when they couldn't violate the prompt payments act and the impoundment act, they eliminated 5800 programs and another 4000 at state.
▶ 1:40:49Chair Risch: Flatley illegal any administration is within the right to obliged to review and reform spending. The way to review and reform spending is in this building. And myself as the ranking member .
▶ 1:41:18Chair Risch: This has been a bipartisan complaint over many administrations that they are not sufficiently aligned. And that we are not targeting economic assistance and humanitarian aid as precisely as we ought to and maybe even that some of the ngos and for-profits that deliver the aid ought to be held accountable just like in the defense department or any other department I said I'm in.
▶ 1:41:48Chair Risch: Two days later, they send 94% of employees home. Secretary rubio reassures us multiple times, most of us on this committee, don't worry, there is a waiver process. There is a waiver process. The problem is the building and shut down and nobody has access to the emails.
▶ 1:42:23Chair Risch: You can't process waivers with no personnel. If there is an effort to reform usaid, to tighten up what we do. By the way, everybody talks about how smart china is for having belt and road, for making friends across the planet, at how cheap it is to do this kind of diplomacy compared to the
▶ 1:42:53Chair Risch: Department of defense. And we admire that and we ponder it and we say, we should do our own version of that. That is usaid. It is also parts of the state department. I'm all in for a 90 day review. But I just want everybody to understand what is happening now. A, what is happening is illegal.
▶ 1:43:22Chair Risch: It is violating the foreign affairs reform and restructuring act of 1998. It is violating the impoundment control act. It is violating annual appropriations bills.
▶ 1:43:36Chair Risch: Second of all, according to usaid's own internal memos, this closure will result in up to 18 million additional cases of malaria per year, because of the united states' illegal decision to shutter this agency.
▶ 1:43:57Chair Risch: I can't believe that this has taken on some sort of partisan vibe. Does the united states of america under any president support 18 million additional cases of malaria? Is that america first?
▶ 1:44:28Chair Risch: We are going to disagree about a lot in the foreign policy space but we should not disagree about abiding by the law. We should not disagree that babies when we can prevent it should not get hiv-aids from their moms.
▶ 1:44:50Chair Risch: And we should not disagree about a basic premise of foreign policy and the exercise of american might which is sometimes the smartest thing for us to do is show up with help. We have been doing this on a bipartisan basis and we have to get back to that. This idea of a waiver process is fine except it is not working. This idea of a 90 day review is fine except in the meantime we have a viscera to the program.
▶ 1:45:24Chair Risch: I understand none of you are in the government, but I'm just hoping I'm praying, I'm begging we can get back to a bipartisan process that we don't cut off our nose to spite our face and that we do not cause death on purpose.
▶ 1:45:43Chair Risch: Senator hagerty.
▶ 1:45:46Senator Hagerty: Thank you for holding this meeting for us. I want to congratulate all of my friends, all three of us served in the last trump administration and I'm really looking forward to the work you were going to do as we come into the next iteration of the administration. I would like to start ambassador landau on a topic very specific. You get it.
▶ 1:46:16Senator Hagerty: It is something deeply concerning to me and I think a number of my colleagues are aware of this. What is happening with the mexican government and their extralegal campaigns to confiscate the properties. You and I have talked about the materials. Their poise and mexico.
▶ 1:46:46Senator Hagerty: Those aggregates that they mine in the gulf of mexico are deeply critical to the infrastructure put in place because there is not an aggregate source. The steam runs out before you get there.
▶ 1:47:12Senator Hagerty: They have an mine, they have a deepwater port on the yucatan peninsula. My fear is that the deepwater port will be for sale to the highest bidder. It will be the ccp, not having a deepwater port that close to the united states of america. I brought this to the biden administration and they did nothing to stop it.
▶ 1:47:43Senator Hagerty: In the waning hours, the trade rep tried to go in and create some changes to usmca that would allow them to basically got the claim and put mexico on a path throughout the nation. Senator kaine and I tried to put a stop to this plan and we were able to get this taken care of.
▶ 1:48:16Senator Hagerty: It was shocking to me that we as a nation were willing to stand by and let them expropriate the property. Can I get your perspective on how U.S. companies abroad who are facing this type of illegitimate activity, how would you expect us to approach this?
▶ 1:48:43Mr. Landau: Thank you for that question and thanks to you for your distinguished service as a basset or to japan and what you have done to try to make the state department a better place. Going to your specific question, my number one job was to protect american interests in mexico where I was serving as a basset or.
▶ 1:49:11Mr. Landau: If an american company is being threatened or harassed by the local government it seems to me all of our vast sitters, that is their job as the representatives of this country.
▶ 1:49:35Mr. Landau: I am extremely concerned about the actions of the mexican government with respect to the materials plans and the aggregates. I can commit to you that on day one if I'm confirmed I will call the mexican government to address that problem and express are very strong concerns about what has happened to the investment in mexico and I can also say that if our friends and mexico are watching this hearing
▶ 1:50:07Mr. Landau: They will understand it is not in this interest that they are looking to renew their free-trade agreement with the united states about this terrible problem. The headline should be about great investment opportunities in north america so it makes me sad for a lot of the mexicans I know who are trying to increase trade that we wind up stuck on this issue and I hope the mexican government will be able to resolve that problem before
▶ 1:50:39Mr. Landau: I'm confirmed.
▶ 1:50:39Sen. Hagerty: One more point I want to cover before I run out of time. You are an exceptional ambassador and you will be in a position to deploy our ambassadors, I want to get your thoughts on how you see the deployment of america's abbasid others around the world and how you will empower them?
▶ 1:51:09Mr. Landau: I think the role is so important and one of the reasons I was honored to become deputy secretary of state is I have been an ambassador recently and I think we need to have someone in the state department who understands at the highest levels working with the secretary and the president what an ambassador does and how to increase and strengthen the feedback loop between washington policymakers and our embassy which I'm afraid is somewhat broken in both directions.
▶ 1:51:40Mr. Landau: I have planned to meet with every outgoing ambassador to go over what are the top three priorities? I need specific action items and results. When they go to their foreign posts they can make it clear to their teams. We need to make sure our embassies are providing us with useful actionable information's.
▶ 1:52:11Mr. Landau: I look forward to working closely with you. Given your experience, there is a lot more we can do to improve our embassies and make it more relevant.
▶ 1:52:26Sen. Hagerty: I'm sorry my time has run out and I didn't get a chance to speak with our other two distinguished nominees, but I wish you all through the best and I would encourage my colleagues to get these votes quickly.
▶ 1:52:38Chair Risch: Senator rosen.
▶ 1:52:41Senator Rosen: Thank, Mr. chairman. I want to thank the chair and the ranking member for holding this hearing today. Before I begin my questions I would like to take a moment to discuss the state department's reckless decision to effectively gut usaid and foreign assistance.
▶ 1:53:03Senator Rosen: This will not only undermine our national security and lead to the deaths of innocent people around the world but this negligence will have an impact on my state of nevada which has benefited from nearly 40 million dollars of usaid investments for global projects. I have heard from constituents who have lost their job or soon expect to. To my constituents, let me say this, we are grateful, I'm grateful for your work.
▶ 1:53:34Senator Rosen: You did not deserve this and we will not forget what has happened. On a different matter, having met with president zelenskyy before the humiliating disaster in the oval office I must also share my extreme frustration and embarrassment at president trump and vice president pence's comments. Last night's decision to suspend military assistance to ukraine is a betrayal of the highest magnitude.
▶ 1:54:04Senator Rosen: Putin's war against ukraine is a threat to all democracies around this planet, you all know this to be true. This is why the U.S. must continue our support. I know many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to agree and I urge them all to speak out. I'm going to speak a little bit more about women, peace, and security. The women, peace and security act was signed by president trump in 2017.
▶ 1:54:36Senator Rosen: It requires the administration to promote the meaningful participation of women in all aspects of conflict prevention and resolution. These programs are not d.e.I., they are an effective way of increasing the odds of reaching and keeping peace and conflict settings. We know that when women are in the room, the outcomes are better because of it.
▶ 1:55:02Senator Rosen: It is my understanding that programs have been terminated or paused so I must ask you, do you believe it benefits U.S. national security to end these types of programs? Do you believe these are contrary to the legal mandate of 2017 and that they are going to hurt us? This is law. I have a few other questions.
▶ 1:55:37Mr. Landau: First, I think my experience in life has always been that women add a very valuable perspective particularly on national security issues and I'm pleased to see how many women are in the state department. I think that is a change for the good.
▶ 1:55:57Mr. Landau: With respect to your question about the law, if I'm confirmed, I will take an oath to support the constitution and the laws of the united states.
▶ 1:56:07Sen. Rosen: Mr. whitaker, last summer the united states and nato allies committed to an upgraded policy recognizing the importance of women's full, equal, and meaningful participation in national security decision-making. As the department representative to nato, will you commit to upholding the agenda and ensure full implementation of the wps law?
▶ 1:56:33Mr. Whitaker: Senator, thank you. The practical effect for nato is designing military equipment for the combatants, for the ukrainians nato has taken this in a practical regard and I will
▶ 1:57:05Mr. Whitaker: Work on it in that regard.
▶ 1:57:05Sen. Rosen: Thank you, I'm going to move on to democracy programming and iran. It is why the U.S. has long supported programs in iran that help a running and people uncover corruption, expose terrorism, document human rights atrocities and achieve internet freedom. These programs are now paused or terminated.
▶ 1:57:37Sen. Rosen: It is a surprising move, but unsurprisingly it is applauded by iranian state media. Do you think it makes our nation stronger, safer, more prosperous to do this? Is it in our best interest?
▶ 1:58:00Mr. Landau: I would like to thank you for your leadership in that part of the world. You have been a strong and consistent voice. I'm not familiar with those particular programs. I will look into those programs if confirmed and I would like to did -- continue to discuss those with you if confirmed.
▶ 1:58:20Sen. Rosen: With my last moment before we turn it over I would appreciate your commitment but anything the are and regime is applauding because we stop doing something, there is probably a good reason to restore it.
▶ 1:58:32Chair Risch: Senator van hollen.
▶ 1:58:35Senator Van Hollen: We only get five minutes so we have a lot to cover so I'm going to ask you to keep your responses short. Elon musk called a id a criminal enterprise and he said we should put it through the wood chipper. Mr. landau, do you agree with elon musk?
▶ 1:58:55Mr. Landau: I agree with the president who created a 90 day waiver.
▶ 1:58:59Sen. Van Hollen: This is a simple question. I'm asking you whether or not you agree with elon musk who called it a criminal enterprise and said we should put it through the wood chipper? It's a pretty simple question.
▶ 1:59:12Mr. Landau: I think usaid provides some valuable services for our country.
▶ 1:59:18Sen. Van Hollen: Mr. landau, you know that the first claim that elon musk made about a id programs was a big lie. Did you see his claim that they spent $50 million on condoms in gaza? Did you see that claim?
▶ 1:59:36Mr. Landau: I'm not familiar with that.
▶ 1:59:37Sen. Van Hollen: That was the new press person at the white house, the first piece of evidence they put out. That was a lie, wasn't it?
▶ 1:59:46Mr. Landau: I respect --
▶ 1:59:48Sen. Van Hollen: This is my time to ask questions, if you don't want to answer them, you don't have to. Let me ask you this. Do you think that putin and russia were the aggressors in ukraine?
▶ 2:00:01Mr. Landau: Senator at this point there are peace negotiations taking place across the world.
▶ 2:00:06Sen. Van Hollen: Where they the aggressor or were they not the aggressor?
▶ 2:00:10Mr. Landau: Russia invaded ukraine.
▶ 2:00:13Sen. Van Hollen: Mr. whitaker will be our massacre to nato. Was russia the aggressors in the war on ukraine?
▶ 2:00:21Mr. Whitaker: A couple of quick thoughts on this. First of all I'm not here to assign labels but I would say jd vance said friday that russia invaded ukraine.
▶ 2:00:32Sen. Van Hollen: So you don't know if they are the aggressor. Were you surprised for example that the united states sided with north korea and russia against ukraine and our nato allies at the u.n.? Were you surprised about that?
▶ 2:00:44Mr. Whitaker: I think everything needs to be put into contact -- context.
▶ 2:00:50Sen. Van Hollen: I think it is pretty clear to anybody with eyes to see that russia and putin were the aggressors in ukraine. It is very troubling that we can't get a straight yes or no answer here. Mr. rigas, I heard your testimony, we all agree we should get would -- rid of waste, fraud, and abuse.
▶ 2:01:17Sen. Van Hollen: I would submit, you can start by firing all of the inspector general's whose job it is to be on the lookout for waste, fraud, and abuse, that is a bad idea. But we agree we want people who can perform well in their jobs? I'm god we can agree on that. You would agree it would be wrong to terminate somebody claiming that they were a poor performer when they were not. Would you agree with that?
▶ 2:01:45Mr. Rigas: Yes.
▶ 2:01:46Sen. Van Hollen: Are you aware of the fact that many of these probationary employees being fired, the notices they are getting claim poor performance but they have had very glowing recent performance reviews?
▶ 2:02:01Mr. Rigas: I have read accounts of that in the media.
▶ 2:02:04Sen. Van Hollen: You would agree that it is a bad idea to claim someone is a poor performer when they are not.
▶ 2:02:10Mr. Rigas: I think so.
▶ 2:02:12Sen. Van Hollen: You are familiar with schedule f.
▶ 2:02:15Mr. Rigas: Yes.
▶ 2:02:16Sen. Van Hollen: I'm worried about schedule f being implemented at the state department because as you know we currently have a system where presidents are of course entitled to lots of political positions, there are hundreds of them, but we also have a civil service system that is merit-based.
▶ 2:02:40Sen. Van Hollen: Do you agree that it would be a bad idea to take positions at the state department that are currently merit-based, based on experience and knowledge, and convert those into political positions? Do you agree that that would be a bad idea?
▶ 2:02:56Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the question. Are you referring to the new executive order the president signed which was the policy schedule?
▶ 2:03:05Sen. Van Hollen: Yes. I'm talking about whether you agree with the bad idea about taking merit-based positions in the state department and convert them into political positions?
▶ 2:03:16Mr. Rigas: The distinction between career and noncareer officials is important. Noncareer officials have a lot more accountability because they are totally at will.
▶ 2:03:33Sen. Van Hollen: You are saying we should convert more people to political because that would make them at will and more easily fired regardless of their merits?
▶ 2:03:42Mr. Rigas: What I'm saying is that leadership should have some flexibility in terms of there are a limited number of positions that can be political, 10% government wide. The law allows the leadership to determine which 10% of the agency so it is possible a general position --
▶ 2:04:04Sen. Van Hollen: Do you agree it would be bad to convert 50,002 to 60,000 merit-based positions from merit-based to political?
▶ 2:04:15Mr. Rigas: I'm not aware of any proposal to convert 50,000 or 60,000 positions.
▶ 2:04:23Sen. Van Hollen: That is russ coates plan so we should have a follow-up conversation.
▶ 2:04:28Mr. Rigas: The new executive order provides for a competitive hiring for those positions. The schedule f which was signed in 2020 had noncompetitive hiring. The new iteration of that has changed how the hiring has occurred.
▶ 2:04:47Sen. Van Hollen: I hope our colleagues will agree that the president, we have had a tradition in the pendleton act has established a merit-based civil service and merit-based foreign service.
▶ 2:05:14Sen. Van Hollen: I hope that we will all agree that we should not be giving merit-based civil service or foreign service positions based on knowledge and qualification. I appreciate the time and I thank you.
▶ 2:05:30Chair Risch: Senator merkley.
▶ 2:05:34Senator Merkley: Thank you Mr. chairman. I wanted to ask you Mr. landau, is president trump a russian asset?
▶ 2:05:48Mr. Landau: Absolutely not, he is the president of the united states duly elected by the american people.
▶ 2:05:55Sen. Merkley: Many people back home have been asking me this question and they say if he was an asset, we would see exactly what he is doing now. For example, he proceeded to forward or express from the oval office propaganda that has been russian propaganda that ukraine started the war, that zelenskyy
▶ 2:06:26Sen. Merkley: Is a dictator. Second of all, he gave away key things on the negotiating table before the negotiations started ensuring the U.S. would oppose any possibility of nato membership for ukraine.
▶ 2:06:46Sen. Merkley: Third, he has cut off the arms shipments to ukraine completely undermining their ability against a massive neighbor next door with short supply lines and huge resources. He has undermined the partnership with europe which has been essential to security over the last 80 years, a major goal of putin's.
▶ 2:07:13Sen. Merkley: And then he has done everything to discredit and demean zelenskyy on the international stage with the shameful press conference in which he teamed up with the vice president to attacks the linsky. I can't imagine that if he was a russian asset he could do anything more favorable to these five points. What else could a russian asset do that he hasn't yet done?
▶ 2:07:42Mr. Landau: Senator, the president has made it absolutely clear that his top priority is to try to bring peace and and and an absolutely savage war. I know you are familiar with the savagery. This is turning into world war I style savagery in eastern ukraine. The president is an exceptionally gifted dealmaker. He is probably the only person in the entire universe who could stop this.
▶ 2:08:14Mr. Landau: Carrots and sticks.
▶ 2:08:15Sen. Merkley: Thank you very much now that you are off the topic I was raising. Mr. whitaker, these five things that the president has done that are so favorable to putin and so damaging to ukraine, do you approve of them?
▶ 2:08:34Mr. Whitaker: Thanks for that question. I'm going to have to politely disagree with you on those five things and the way you framed them. The war in ukraine would never have happened of president trump was president in 2022.
▶ 2:08:51Sen. Merkley: I don't think that was the question I asked but maybe you could go on television some other time and express those points of view. Do you agree with the five things president trump has done starting with him expressing russian propaganda from the oval office?
▶ 2:09:08Mr. Whitaker: As I mentioned to your colleague, I'm not here to assign labels. We are in the middle of a peace negotiation.
▶ 2:09:19Sen. Merkley: Ok, thank you. I do hope we have an administration that works to get the best deal for ukraine but what a russian asset would do would be to get the best deal for russia and that appears to be with donald trump is trying to accomplish. I want to turn to usaid.
▶ 2:09:47Sen. Merkley: We have a group of mercy corps that has contracts all over the world. I was struck by clean water, health care nutrition contracts. Also building that relationship with those nations.
▶ 2:10:26Sen. Merkley: I was struck by this particular con tract because when I was down in guatemala I was asking the president what is the most effective? He said school lunch programs. Our kids don't have enough nutrition programs. Education is essential. It creates local contracts.
▶ 2:11:00Sen. Merkley: It is economic investment around the country. Doesn't make any sense to cancel a program like that that is so beneficial in so many different ways?
▶ 2:11:11Mr. Whitaker: Is that directed at me?
▶ 2:11:14Sen. Merkley: Sure. Why not?
▶ 2:11:17Mr. Whitaker: As you know, nato is a different animal.
▶ 2:11:21Sen. Merkley: Absolutely, I know, but you have brought foreign policy experience. I will ask whether it makes sense. Why hasn't this contract been restored?
▶ 2:11:43Mr. Landau: I can just look at the waiver.
▶ 2:11:46Sen. Merkley: Let me just explain that the solicitor general said the funding freeze is not continuing, it is over. But the gears are not turning and the gears have to turn for contracts to be restored and for aid to flow. We are talking about diseases overseas. We don't want people bringing those, ebola style diseases to the united states, etc.
▶ 2:12:19Sen. Merkley: And it is just double talk to say that the funding freeze is over. They have fired all the people who turned the gears. I don't want to hear about waivers when there is no sincerity in actually applying them and making a id function again.
▶ 2:12:42Chair Risch: Senator scott.
▶ 2:12:43Senator Scott: -- senator lee was here first actually. Senator lee, go ahead.
▶ 2:12:54Senator Lee: Thank you for your willingness to serve every Mr. landau, you have spoken about the need to restore statecraft, economic statecraft as a core function of the U.S. state department. You have also acknowledged this administration has been clear I'd about the need to rethink and revisit certain aspects of foreign aid.
▶ 2:13:18Senator Lee: Getting back to economic statecraft, would you agree the tools available to the united states in the economic statecraft domain including things like trade agreements and other efforts that involve reducing trade barriers arguably have a better return on investment than foreign aid in the traditional sense and should perhaps be a primary line of effort?
▶ 2:13:44Mr. Landau: Senator, I think that is such an important point to underscore. There is probably no force in the world as powerful as the american private sector.
▶ 2:14:04Mr. Landau: I think we will get a much higher rate of return from helping private sector money find its way to places where the private sector knows how best to spend it and get returns, not to say there is not a role for usaid, but for decades we have looked at this as american taxpayers sending aid to all of those abroad.
▶ 2:14:34Mr. Landau: I would love to focus on how we get the american sector to increase flows of capital to those other countries. We saw that in china. There is no more powerful force than free-market systems when they are operating. We have severely under invested in the kinds of programs you are talking about.
▶ 2:15:02Sen. Lee: People want to trade with the united states. Mr. whitaker, I would like to go to you next. It is in my view and the view of many within the current administration far past time for our nato allies to take their own security needs seriously and the president has called for our allies to spend 5% of gdp on defense.
▶ 2:15:35Sen. Lee: Defense spending is at least in part driven by threat perceptions, by what people perceive as necessary to keep themselves safe. The perception of a threat risk may vary a little bit within nato and areas also depending on which side of the atlantic ocean you might be on.
▶ 2:16:04Sen. Lee: Defense spending is a decision that is necessarily subject to domestic processes. To domestic scrutiny, to engagements normally with elected representatives. In light of all of these factors, how reconcilable is this?
▶ 2:16:33Mr. Whitaker: That is a great question. I enjoyed our time as lawyers nerd and out the law. That being said, you are right. Defense spending is subject to domestic political concerns.
▶ 2:17:00Mr. Whitaker: Many have balanced their budgets on the backs of the american taxpayer. Obviously if confirmed I look forward to the conversation with all the members of the committee . They say they are.
▶ 2:17:38Mr. Whitaker: The U.S. is their best ally in a dangerous world.
▶ 2:17:41Sen. Lee: Albi at an ally they are ready to cast aside. Regardless, we have been bearing a disproportionate share.
▶ 2:18:08Sen. Lee: It doesn't necessarily make it fair to the united states of america or the taxpayers. Thank you.
▶ 2:18:13Chair Risch: Thank you. Mr. whitaker, having a conversation to nerd out on the law, you couldn't find a more better or willing partner than senator lee. He is outstanding in that regard.
▶ 2:18:26Mr. Whitaker: I agree with you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:18:28Chair Risch: Senator kaine.
▶ 2:18:31Senator Kaine: Simple question for each of you. Who instigated the current war in gaza? >> I would say hamas did. >> I would agree with my colleague. >> yeah, october 7 was an invasion by hamas.
▶ 2:18:49Sen. Kaine: So you didn't have any problem saying who instigated the war in gaza but none of you are being candid about who instigated the war in ukraine. And what you said is the reason and I'm going to be fair to Mr. rigas, I heard Mr. whitaker and Mr. landau. What you said is they are sensitive and delicate negotiations going on right now.
▶ 2:19:14Sen. Kaine: There is a sensitive and delicate negotiation going on between israel and gaza right now about extending a cease-fire that is really important to israel and hostage families and really important to palestinians. It is really important to the red sea. I'm just noticing this.
▶ 2:19:41Sen. Kaine: We were just in a hearing with the deputy secretary of defense, there is a sensitive, delicate negotiation, I don't really want to opine about who instigated it. I asked him who instigated the war in gaza and he said it was hamas. We have to be willing to tell the truth.
▶ 2:20:13Sen. Kaine: Americans deserve the truth. If we are voting to confirm people for critical positions and you have all served in important positions and you are all nominated for really important positions, we have got to have a sense that the truthful nature of your comments may not be listened to. What you owe to your commander-in-chief, your country is to be truthful.
▶ 2:20:43Sen. Kaine: I can't help but notice it was so easy to answer the question about who instigated the or in gaza and so difficult for folks to be difficult about who instigated the war in ukraine. I have a question about schedule avenue. There are some similarities and differences.
▶ 2:21:11Sen. Kaine: You are part of opm during the first term and the guidance in that agency suggested there was a desire to reclassify 80% of the people in those agencies from traditional political services, schedule f. Do you have a sense of what the likely percentage request would be at the department of state under the trump administration term two.
▶ 2:21:36Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the question, I enjoyed our meeting and you were the first senator I met with this process. I don't know I can put a number on that. I can tell you how I went about the process at opm.
▶ 2:22:02Mr. Rigas: What I did is asking our position descriptions to see which positions were policymaking, policy influencing, confidential or policy advocating positions.
▶ 2:22:18Sen. Kaine: With a goal to getting to this 80% will be schedule avenue? My example, the 80% number I'm not sure where that comes from. You may be referring to omb where they did a similar analysis and came up with that number.
▶ 2:22:36Sen. Kaine: Was there a target number at opm?
▶ 2:22:41Mr. Rigas: There was not.
▶ 2:22:43Sen. Kaine: How does schedule pc differ from schedule f?
▶ 2:22:48Mr. Rigas: I think the major difference is that it provides for a competitive hiring process.
▶ 2:23:00Sen. Kaine: But folks can still be fired and not have recourse to challenge it. I will say this and conclude, we see the administration firing probationary employees because they don't have the same access to challenge it. It means it is a war on veterans because probationary employees are brand-new people, 30% of the workforce is veterans.
▶ 2:23:25Sen. Kaine: They tend to come in after serving 15 or 20 years and they are probationary even though they may be 45 or 50 years old. That is why president trump in his first six weeks in office has fired more veterans than anyone in the united states. I think that is a disgrace, not a distinction. I yelled back.
▶ 2:23:46Chair Risch: Thank you. Senator scott.
▶ 2:23:52Senator Scott: First off, congratulations on your nominations. You have had distinguished careers and I know you will do a great job. First let me start with Mr. whitaker. How do you see your role of helping the president to get our allies to do their job?
▶ 2:24:22Senator Scott: How are you going to get them to do what they should be doing?
▶ 2:24:26Mr. Whitaker: Thank you, it is good to see you again. Being there day today in brussels. , it is the most important thing to have somebody like myself, somebody who has been with president trump the last administration is going to send a clear message from the president that it is time to step up and not just pay lip
▶ 2:24:58Mr. Whitaker: Service to it. It is important to drive the issues I mentioned earlier. Interoperability and addressing the hybrid threats that we are seeing in space and cyber. I think there are a lot of things.
▶ 2:25:19Mr. Whitaker: The primary thing is getting >> 2019 unix security conference and met with the german delegation and they basically told us to jump in the lake. They were going to increase funding. How will you change that attitude? What is going to change? Why would they change? We have been sitting here and been their umbrella forever.
▶ 2:25:49Mr. Whitaker: What is going to make him change? >> president trump is going to make them change. We have already seen the dramatic increase in commitments from our nato allies and saying things like nato is a good thing if done properly and used properly and saying europeans need to step up. President trump communicates directly and he's been very clear to our allies.
▶ 2:26:13Mr. Whitaker: If anybody is below what they commit to 10 years ago of 2% in june during the first trump summit with our nato allies, that is going to be a very bad scene. If there's not a commitment and a plan to get to 5% as soon as possible, I think our nato allies should be very concerned. >> since russia invaded ukraine, the baltics and if the others have acted with commitment to help themselves and help ukraine.
▶ 2:26:43Mr. Whitaker: Have we reached a point where we are more aligned with poland and the baltic states then we are all the other nato nations. >> senator, if you are on the border with russia and you are saying how vladimir putin has conducted his foreign policy, you have a real view of the world.
▶ 2:27:06Mr. Whitaker: Poland and our baltic allies have been extraordinary in addressing -- article three, everybody wants to talk about article five but article three says each nato ally commits to both the collective defense but individual defense. I think that is often ignored in the broader discussion.
▶ 2:27:25Mr. Whitaker: That is so important to what is happening with those on the front line and at the same time they should be applauded for that commitment to increasing their defense spending and recognizing the real threat. Russia is the largest geopolitical threat to europe. It is not the largest political threat to the united states of america. We have talked about it earlier, china is that geopolitical threat. The united states needs to address that and needs to balance those concerns.
▶ 2:27:56Mr. Whitaker: >> can you talk a little bit about how you envision the realignment of the secretary of state's office is your working with secretary of state rubio? What do you guys think you want to be doing to make this more focused? >> thank you for the question.
▶ 2:28:20Mr. Whitaker: As I said in my opening statement, part of what I'm being responsible for them what I like to do is make sure we have the right people with the right skills doing the right things and in the right places. I would like to roll up my sleeves and ask questions about where people are and what they're doing.
▶ 2:28:36Mr. Whitaker: I was talking to a senior foreign service officer who was in africa and said I've got one economic affairs lot here and I struggled to fill and paris has five and I don't know if that is the right mix or allocation of where folks ought to be but I like to ask questions and come up with a good plan for that. >> Mr. lindo?
▶ 2:28:58Mr. Landau: I think we need to increase our focus on economic diplomacy around the world. I would like to thank you for your leadership on hemispheric issues and have confirmed I look forward to closely working with you.
▶ 2:29:13Chair Risch: Thank you most of Mr. whitaker, thank you for that comment on section three. Everybody focuses on section five. Section three is really important. The good news is my discussions with european allies, most if not all have come to or are coming to the realization that the biggest threat is not russia, it is obviously an immediate problem but for the rest of the century, our challenge, europeans challenge is going to come from china.
▶ 2:29:48Chair Risch: With that, senator shaheen?
▶ 2:29:48Sen. Shaheen: Thank you. I would like to echo what you just said about china but I would point out one of the things that china is watching very closely is what we do in ukraine. If we walk away from our allies, our ally ukraine come it is going to say a lot to president xi about what we might do in terms of supporting or not supporting taiwan.
▶ 2:30:15Sen. Shaheen: I would urge you all to consider that as you are looking at the calculus about how we need to address china. Mr. whitaker, you alluded to this a little bit but I want to be clear, under your leadership in brussels, if confirmed, the united states commitment to nato the ironclad including our commitment article five? Mr.
▶ 2:30:38Whitaker: Thank you. We talked about this when we had a chance to visit last week. It will be ironclad. Article five I think vines all of the allies but at the same time as president trump -- he just spoke on this earlier this week. He says I support it but we should not have to use it. I think that is very important.
▶ 2:31:00Sen. Shaheen: Sorry to interrupt but I've limited time. Do you support the continued troops on the nato eastern flank including in poland where the U.S. leads the multinational battle group and also in the baltic states?
▶ 2:31:13Mr. Whitaker: I think obviously those forward deployed eastern european, U.S. assets together with our allies are very important to this strategic posture of both united states of america.
▶ 2:31:30Sen. Shaheen: You talked about wanting to commit the united states to 5% of gdp for our defense spending. Do you know what we spend now in terms of gdp?
▶ 2:31:42Mr. Whitaker: I've seen a lot of estimates but the best I can tell is about $850 billion on the united states defense, which is about 3.5% of our gdp.
▶ 2:31:53Sen. Shaheen: In 2024, 800 $86 billion, which is 3.4% of gdp. You know it would take to get us to 5%?
▶ 2:32:02Mr. Whitaker: In iowa, we would say a whole lot more money.
▶ 2:32:07Sen. Shaheen: 5% of our gdp last year would be $1.5 trillion. It would take another 550 billion dollars. As we are talking about how we get to an increased level of spending, we also need to have a plan for having -- how the united states would get there. Mr. rigas, I want to go back to something we discussed in my office.
▶ 2:32:31Sen. Shaheen: I raised concern about some of your writings with respect to how you reference federal employees. If you could just clarify for me in this hearing, do you believe career federal employees, patriotic americans like Mr. landau's father who served across both republican and democratic administrations, do you believe those career federal employees are able to carry out the lawful policies of the president?
▶ 2:32:59Mr. Rigas: Thank you for taking the time to meet with me. Yes. There were a number of writings I submitted as part of my questionnaire including this chapter I co-authored on america first national security policy. On page one I say we believe most civil servants show up to work every day and do their jobs dutifully on behalf of the president and the american people.
▶ 2:33:25Mr. Rigas: Any career officials have tremendous institutional knowledge and expertise and are a great resource to our government and they serve our fellow citizens well.
▶ 2:33:31Sen. Shaheen: I appreciate your clarifying that because that is been my experience as well. I think it is unfortunate to make such blanket statements about career employees being members of the swamp and not being willing to carry out their president's policies no matter who the president is. Mr. chairman, for the record, I would like to introduce these two pieces, writings from Mr. rigas for the record.
▶ 2:34:04Sen. Shaheen: What is september 2023 op-ed and the other is the chapter of a book co-authored by Mr. rigas.
▶ 2:34:09Chair Risch: They will be included.
▶ 2:34:12Sen. Shaheen: Mr. landau, the national endowment for democracy is an organization whose concept was conceived by president reagan but it has been starved for funds by this administration.
▶ 2:34:25Sen. Shaheen: Despite a line item for its appropriation and a statutory mandate that ned, national endowment for democracy, receive a from the state department, they have had to furlough 75% of their staff, halted all grant making. This is a low overhead cost organization. As I said, one that was created and conceived by president reagan.
▶ 2:34:53Sen. Shaheen: It works exclusively to advance free elections, free market and democracy in places where our adversaries rule against their people and against america. Countries like iran and china and north korea and cuba. So if you are confirmed, will you ensure the department of state complies with the ned act and appropriations laws that make neds's funds urgently available?
▶ 2:35:20Mr. Landau: I believe with my soul and fiber of my body in the rule of law that if the law is constitutional, that it is our job is unconfirmed -- if I'm confirmed to be part of the executive branch, to apply with that law. If the -- they are mandatory statutory items, then I will certainly do my best to make sure or my job will be to follow the law.
▶ 2:35:50Mr. Landau: That is what I do. If I'm part of the executive branch -- you will make the laws in it is our job for those of us who might be an executive branch to execute the laws assuming the laws are constitutional. I can give you that commitment.
▶ 2:36:00Sen. Shaheen: . Thank you.
▶ 2:36:01Chair Risch: Senator duckworth.
▶ 2:36:04Sen. Duckworth: I echo the ranking member's call to bring secretary rubio before this committee was that everyone of us should have the chance to go over the usaid programs from secretary rubio. I am extremely concerned about the people and devastation being brought by this administration's disastrous systemic dismantling of a foreign policy, foreign assistance apparatus.
▶ 2:36:27Sen. Duckworth: I am further concerned about the long-term impact, not just the lives and livelihoods of those around the world but the trust and commitment that has broken it cannot be repaired so easily even with the folks in charge did an about-face today. Last year kurt campbell met with this committee and emphasized a strategy invest align compete in response to the p.r.c. Growing geopolitical influence in the indo pacific.
▶ 2:36:54Sen. Duckworth: Secretary rubio highlighted his own vision of making a safer, stronger, more prosperous but he is currently failing at that mark. The p.r.c. Is undercutting our soft power and is now pursuing an agenda that is opaque, illegal if you ask me, and thus to uphold our contracts. The trumpet administration is undercutting our soft power. Look at the midwest. I'm concerned with the cuts to usaid.
▶ 2:37:22Sen. Duckworth: Over the last four fiscal years, usda purchased food commodities to distribute via usaid from farmers in illinois, indiana, iowa, nebraska, wisconsin, missouri, florida. In iowa, usaid contributed -- accounted for $64 million in funds that were bought from iowa farmers. In indiana, $4 million.
▶ 2:37:50Sen. Duckworth: Nebraska, $102 million worth of agricultural goods for usaid. Missouri, $79 million. Florida, $99 million. Wisconsin, $230 million. These programs now are on hold and are farmers are going to suffer as a result of ending the usaid programs. Mr. rigas, you are at a firm that advises how to navigate federal contracting.
▶ 2:38:16Sen. Duckworth: Organizations are still owed tens of billions of dollars in reimbursement for work done in december and january. They have not been paid. They don't know when they will receive the money they are owed. We are getting to the point where they may be owed interest on the outstanding money as well. Some of these american counted run run organizations or explain bankruptcy is something to consider. They laid off hundreds of staff and that does not sound like prosperity to me.
▶ 2:38:43Sen. Duckworth: Some reports have been told by usaid reimbursements for work done in december and january will only be provided for expenses that this administration deems legitimate or they would have approved even though these are contracts from the last administration for work done during the last administration. Who was the president in december through january 2020? January 20?
▶ 2:39:03Mr. Rigas: Who was the president and 2024? President joe biden.
▶ 2:39:15Sen. Duckworth: Would you have advised anyone in december to anticipate it would not have been reimbursed?
▶ 2:39:19Mr. Rigas: Federal contracting law is clear so if a contractor has provided goods or services come there going to be paid. I don't see how that would not happen.
▶ 2:39:32Sen. Duckworth: But they have not been paid yet. That is a problem for these companies that are now facing bankruptcy. It will cost taxpayers more money if we have to pay those contracts with interest. If confirmed, will be overseeing the office of foreign assistance for many of the illegal and unprecedented directives have originated. Can you commit if you're confirmed you will move to correct this issue and at a bare minimum reimbursed organizations for the work they did before the stop work order? Mr.
▶ 2:39:58Sen. Duckworth: Rigas: absolutely. I would go in and make sure to see what kind of disconnect has occurred, miscommunication. Anyone who has a contract to provide goods and services in the united states government and has rendered those goods answer should be paid for them and will be paid.
▶ 2:40:23Sen. Duckworth: I'm just talking about work prior to the freeze. Thank you for that. Living on, what area I thought might have continuity of purpose, talking about uso parents come up with this administration stop work order in foreign assistance freeze, uso parents were funded and implement a by partners on the ground were stopped. Some countries like vietnam those are legacies issues are the bedrock of our relationship we have cultivated over decades. In others, one of the connective tissues we have.
▶ 2:40:55Sen. Duckworth: You know what happened when we stopped work? P.r.c. Came in and gave $4.4 million contract to take over the work we were funding, that we established on the ground. Mr. chairman, I would like to submit for the record radio free asia article talking about the p.r.c. Stepping in.
▶ 2:41:14Chair Risch: It will be included.
▶ 2:41:18Sen. Duckworth: I don't think it looks good. Do you think it looks good?
▶ 2:41:21Mr. Rigas: I'm not familiar with that particular case but I think we have talked at this hearing about our need to compete and confront where china is gaining around the world at the expense of U.S. interest will stop to the extent -- it will be a priority of mine, I know it is a priority of the president's to push back on the gains china has made certainly in the western hemisphere and everywhere else where U.S. interest are at stake.
▶ 2:41:48Chair Risch: Sen. cruz:. Mr. landau, I want to focus on iran's push to build nuclear weapons which heavily presents one of the most immediate and acute threats to american national security. Under the first trumpet administration, president trump imposed maximum pressure, first by denying the ayatollah oil revenue and resending civil nuclear waivers and ultimately by invoking snapback sanctions.
▶ 2:42:18Chair Risch: The biden administration dismantled that pressure as the iranian regime knew they would and so the regime began rushing to a nuclear weapon immediately after the november election. We know the result. Today the ayatollah has achieved a new air breakout time of nearly zero. We now face the very real possibility of an iranian nuclear arsenal. I don't believe this is a threat the U.S. can tolerate and I'm glad the trumpet administration is taking action.
▶ 2:42:48Chair Risch: We've already seen the trumpet administration restore parts of the maximum pressure campaign with the goal of cutting their oil exports completely to zero. Next we have to cancel any civil nuclear waivers and re-invoke the snapback. I asked in written testimony to this committee whether secretary rubio intends to do so and here was his response, "I believe it is our national security interest for the u.n.
▶ 2:43:14Chair Risch: Security because of the snapback dissension suspended under the jcpoa. I will execute the president's kinds and work with our allies to ensure that snapback takes place. I also asked incoming ambassador to the united nations to phonic about the issue and she said she will work with the white house and secretary rubio to develop a strategy to do exactly that. Both said an iranian nuclear weapon poses an acute national security threat to the united states.
▶ 2:43:44Chair Risch: First, do you agree with their assessment that it is in the national security interest of the united states to snapback the u.n. Sanctions? >> yes, senator.
▶ 2:43:56Sen. Cruz: Talk about how you would support the administration , in particular to invoke the snapback mechanism either unilaterally -- working with others? >> let me reiterate, I'm so glad that you bring up this really important issue of iran's nuclear capabilities. I think the president has made it clear on numerous occasions that he shares the view you just articulated that it is completely unacceptable to U.S.
▶ 2:44:26Sen. Cruz: National security to have -- four iran to be nuclear armed power in this world. Certainly the state department will do everything we can as senator rubio and representative stephanik have indicated to you to work with other countries around the world to make sure that they're not just U.S.
▶ 2:44:47Sen. Cruz: Sanctions on iran -- if an alliance mean something, it has to mean something that when we say something is an existential threat to the world, that our allies would agree with that. There are broader and replications of things we care about.
▶ 2:45:08Sen. Cruz: We should generally make it clear to our allies that if you want to be our allies, let's -- identify on issues that we all care about on different parts of the world. Iran is certainly one of those.
▶ 2:45:24Sen. Cruz: Mr. whitaker, we have heard a lot of histrionics recently about president trump's policies toward europe and ukraine. First, I have heard from colleagues on both sides of the aisle from the meeting between president trump and ukrainian president zelenskyy was an inexpressible catastrophe. Completely out of line, delusional, frankly, deeply disrespectful to the president of the united states.
▶ 2:45:54Sen. Cruz: In my view, president zelenskyy's behavior in that meeting will go down in history as the most disastrous oval office encounter ever. Zelenskyy's behavior was the exact opposite of what he should have been doing. The united states has provided ukraine with hundreds of billions of dollars to support his fight against russia and yet his attitude was arrogant and his actions did not just harm ukraine, they also harmed americans.
▶ 2:46:27Sen. Cruz: Any outcome that benefits russia does not benefit america. The war must end I believe the clear and unmistakable loss for russia. After the war ends, the next question is going to be what europe does with energy. As you and I discussed come energy was a major cause of the war with joe biden waiting sanctions on nord stream to which was a precipitating cause of the war.
▶ 2:46:55Sen. Cruz: Two part question, number one, what is your understanding of why the war started and number two how should the issue of european energy security be handled and should europe get his energy from russia or from america? Mr. whitaker: I enjoyed our conversation. We've known each other for a long time and it was good to not only catch up and talk about these important issues that face our european allies in the nato alliance that we are part of.
▶ 2:47:21Sen. Cruz: It is clear to me when joe biden removed the sanctions from nord stream to that if the money that vladimir putin needed to execute this war and took away the need for russian gas to pastor ukraine because they had a new route for that gas straight to central europe.
▶ 2:47:45Sen. Cruz: At the same time, joe biden's weakness in the afghanistan withdrawal I think also gave a green light to vladimir putin to commence the war in 2022. I think those two factors as we discussed were critical to that war and would never have happened if donald trump was president in 2022.
▶ 2:48:05Sen. Cruz: There is no doubt to me that one of the reasons for the nato alliance, as I mentioned earlier, the most successful alliance in the history of the world, but it also protects our allies and our allies should protect us. That includes not only military alliances but trade alliances.
▶ 2:48:24Sen. Cruz: The fact that europe continues to buy billions of dollars worth of gas from russia instead of buying american liquid natural gas I think is a travesty and hopefully we can increase that capacity to export here in the U.S. and for them to receive it in europe so the dependence on russia and the funding of vladimir putin's were machine can end.
▶ 2:48:47Chair Risch: For the record, your comments are well taken. Europe attempting to replace that and there is a lot of effort going on. Frankly, a lot of us are amazed they were able to do as much as they have such short order. Good for that. Senator coons.
▶ 2:49:09Sen. Coons: Thank you two or three colleagues. I checked with my office and you may have requested meetings with me. I apologize if I schedule -- my schedule did not permit me to meet with you. I would welcome a chance to meet after this. I think the odds will be confirmed are high and will play central roles in our state department and in our engagement with our critical nato partners in europe.
▶ 2:49:39Sen. Coons: Decades of engagement with the foreign service, previous service as an investor to mexico I think recommends you for this role. If I heard you correctly in your opening testimony suggested mass migration globally is one of the great challenges to stability, peace security around the world.
▶ 2:49:55Sen. Coons: Help me understand annual review , are programs that counter human trafficking, programs that help families sustain themselves with productive agriculture and help reduce the pressures for migration, are those programs beneficial? >> I think as a general matter, yes. I think you of the program by program. I don't think you can paint too broad a brush.
▶ 2:50:24Sen. Coons: Certainly we have been putting a lot of money into countries like honduras for as long as I can remember my whole life. I'm not sure we have seen the kind of results you would expect. I think theoretically, yes, and I think we should certainly explore are there programs that we can promote -- that are actually effective programs to limit migration.
▶ 2:50:49Sen. Coons: Having visited a number of programs that were sponsored through the U.S. state department answer usaid that were designed to help young people resist predation by human traffickers, reduce her temptation to join gangs, help support rural agriculture in countries like guatemala and mexico, costa rica, colombia, we are largely effective in reducing the inclination to go hundreds if not thousands of miles presented at our southern border.
▶ 2:51:17Sen. Coons: I think they are wise investments and unwise they been abruptly cut off. I hope we can work together on finding ways to identify and restore funding to those programs that reduce mass migration. And those programs that effectively counter china and chinese and russian disinformation. Are you familiar with iri?
▶ 2:51:37Mr. Landau: Yes.
▶ 2:51:44Sen. Coons: Launched by president reagan for decades deserving of bipartisan support, critical for sustaining for example a nato ally romania, moldova not yet a member of the eu or nato come that are facing upcoming elections. For decades they have helped counter disinformation by russian and china and helped facilitate the movement towards creating democracies by former soviet states.
▶ 2:52:09Sen. Coons: You have any sense if it is a good idea or a bad idea to completely shut down iri and ndi?
▶ 2:52:14Mr. Landau: I thi it is something we should look closely at. If confirmed, I would be more than happy to work with you to talk about specific efforts. Let's look at the funding streams, what they are doing. I can certainly commit to working with you on that.
▶ 2:52:35Sen. Coons: I would appreciate the opportunity. My experience the last few weeks, and I voted for secretary rubio, has been on the one hand we are told there's a longer view going on, waivers being given, but senator sullivan is the board chair of ira, republican marine veteran, a big believer in iri. They are laying people off. We don't have time for a long discussion.
▶ 2:52:59Sen. Coons: We need to act to restore funding and functionality to a wide range of long demonstrated bipartisan programs from pepfar to capture migration to programs that counter russian chinese just -- disinformation. Is it your understanding that the workforce at stake should brace for doge stock because that would lead to thousands of members of the civil service being fired abruptly without cause and without warning in Mr.
▶ 2:53:29Rigas: I have no insight to any planes of that nature. And to the extent my understanding is media reports is probationary employees that go or put on leave I believe that has already happened.
▶ 2:53:46Sen. Coons: One of those probationary employees just when my office. A talented and capable young person who left a great job in rome to come back to the united states to take a job in the state department working in international religious freedom, abruptly fired without cause. And I will say for a young generation of potential career foreign service and civil service officers, I think we are causing real harm.
▶ 2:54:10Sen. Coons: We have long benefited from new generations of folks joining the diplomatic service in a civil service. I think you're making a huge mistake. I think we need to look carefully at the alignment of the state department and whether the funds are being spent wisely, the post emissions make sense. But to do it in the same way the chainsaw was just taken usaid would be a tragic mistake.
▶ 2:54:35Sen. Coons: We should not be shutting down missions, laying off individuals by the thousands and canceling programs all over the world. You should not let what just happened to a id happened to the state department. I think it would be a critical strategic mistake.
▶ 2:54:49Chair Risch: Thank you. Thank you to our panel, strong showing today. You guys have done well. Look forward to moving the administration forward after we get you confirmed as soon as we possibly can. I am going to add the letters of support for each of the members to this record, for the information the members -- the record will remain open until close of business tomorrow, wednesday, march 5, including for members to submit questions for the record.
▶ 2:55:20Chair Risch: I ask you to answer those as rapidly as you can. With that, the hearing is adjourned.