▶ 0:15:21Chair Lee: Committee will come to order. Welcome to the committee's third nomination hearing for this congress. This is an important one. A hearing involving two people who have run two departments that this committee oversees, received testimony from these two distinguished nominees, the office of the tw deputy
▶ 0:15:54Chair Lee: Secretary appointments. Department of interior and department of energy. Each of these nominees has previously been confirmed by the senate after having been reported favorably out of this committee. They served honorably in their respective offices. The two individuals are therefore no strangers to this committee. Katharine macgregor, nominated to be the deputy secretary of the department of the interior, and james danly, nominated to be deputy secretary of energy.
▶ 0:16:21Chair Lee: Both nominees deserve to be confirmed and each has my strong support. I think president trump -- thank president trump for sending these nominees to the senate for confirmation. In both the department of interior and department of energy, the deputy secretary functions as the chief operating officer responsible for a lot of the day-to-day management and function of each of these departments, departments that involve complex, sprawling
▶ 0:16:52Chair Lee: Series of agencies that directly affect the lives of 330 million americans. At interior, the deputy secretary oversees 70,000 employees, $14 billion budget, manages 500 million acres, a staggering 1/5 of our nation's land.
▶ 0:17:15Chair Lee: The is roughly two thirds of the sprawling 20% of the total landmass owned by the united states government throughout our country. This role requires supervising the development of all sorts of things, managing this entity.
▶ 0:17:40Chair Lee: It involves being the largest supplier and manager of water in 17 states, trust responsibilities to 500 74 federally recognized american indian tribes, alaskan natives. Ms. macgregor has done this work before and she has done it well in this position.
▶ 0:18:01Chair Lee: In her previous 10-year is deputy secretary, she oversaw efforts to ensure domestic energy and mineral development on public lands and waters, reduced permitting time frames and implement the departments covid-19 operational response.
▶ 0:18:17Chair Lee: She brings a wealth of private sector and public sector experience including her most recent role at nextera energy, giving her a broad range on regulatory reform.
▶ 0:18:35Chair Lee: At the department of energy, the deputy secretary plays a similar role, tasked with maintaining a safe and secure nuclear determent, reducing the threat of nuclear proliferation, overseeing the united states energy supply, carrying out the cold war nuclear mission, managing 17 national laboratories. The department literally keeps the lights on. We have seen Mr.
▶ 0:18:58Chair Lee: Danly's work at the federal energy regulatory commission both as general counsel and later as chairman and as commissioner. We have read his dissents, statements, warnings, particularly about the dangers of distorting markets and over relying on intermittent sources of electric power.
▶ 0:19:21Chair Lee: Is legal and regulatory record demonstrates a consistent commitment to statutory interpretation grounded in the text of the law and a deep understanding of the grid's physical and economic realities. Be on his professional credentials, Mr. danly brings a record of service and sacrifice, as a formula army officer, served two tours in iraq, awarded the bronze star and purple heart. I look forward to hearing from both nominees today.
▶ 0:19:50Chair Lee: Their roles are vital, responsibilities and mints, and decisions that they make in their job will reverberate throughout the american west and of course the nation at large. With that, I recognize senator heinrich for his opening statement.
▶ 0:20:03Sen. Heinrich: Thank you, chairman, welcome, Ms. macgregor from Mr. danly. Before we get to committee business, I want to address the troubling reports that dod is considering canceling or renegotiating existing funding contracts with companies, some of which are already under construction. As I wrote to secretary wright in a letter a week ago, I will remind Mr. danly and Ms.
▶ 0:20:28Sen. Heinrich: Macgregor today, the decision to rescind these awards rests with congress, not with the president, and certainly not with elon musk. However, even before the so called kill lists were leaked, we already started seeing the economic impact the administrations reckless actions. It is estimated more than 50,000 energy jobs have already been lost under trump's watch.
▶ 0:20:54Sen. Heinrich: The administration's actions are also constricting the fastest-growing and most affordable power sources just as demand for manufacturing and data center growth is surging. This means energy cost will soar. Electricity prices are already on track to be the highest they have been since the 1990's, and terminating projects in the name of energy dominance is not only ludicrous, it will lead to higher energy costs directly for households.
▶ 0:21:23Sen. Heinrich: All of this is only the newest phase in the administration's campaign of chaos and federal agencies and actions that are raising energy costs. Both the interior and energy departments have been subject to whiplash in just the last two months, from illegally firing thousands of employees only to be required by courts to rehire them, to announcements that agency buildings would be closed or sold, or in some cases now maybe not freezing grant funds
▶ 0:21:54Sen. Heinrich: And contracts in contravention of federal law only to see some unfrozen while others remain inexplicably frozen this has got to be about the least efficient way to run a government. For the department of interior, all of this mismanagement has a real on the ground impacts for people and communities. We have seen claude visitor centers, overflowing trash cans at parks, field offices that have shorter hours.
▶ 0:22:22Sen. Heinrich: And it is harder for people to reach front line when they have questions. Small businesses are worried if their permits will be processed. Scientists are struggling to cover expenses because of the federal government backing out of contracts with them. In our public lands, which are the birthright of every single american. However, if something doesn't change, at the agencies that care for these public lands, we could lose that birthright.
▶ 0:22:48Sen. Heinrich: I have a number of question today for both of these nominees for energy and the interior department. Both departments were created by statute, they were not created by the whim of the president. They do not exist at the president's pleasure. The laws that execute, the programs they administer, the funds they spend were enacted, created, appropriated by law, by congress. I will be looking for assurances from both nominees that they are committed to following the law.
▶ 0:23:19Sen. Heinrich: And I hope to hear how they will get these departments returned back to a path of public service, back on track securing american leadership and competitiveness, and the responsible stewardship of our natural resources. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 0:23:35Chair Lee: Ok. Let's now turn to our witnesses for their testimony. Before that out, I want to swear you both in. If you would stand. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give to the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you. We will now have opening statements. We will hear first from Ms. macgregor and then Mr. danly.
▶ 0:24:05Chair Lee: While you are speaking, feel free to introduce any family you have got here with you. You may proceed, Ms. macgregor.
▶ 0:24:11Ms. Macgregor: Thank you, chairman lee, ranking member heinrich and members of the committee. I thought I had escaped D.C., but sometimes life offers you a different path and I'm honored and humbled that president trump has nominated me for the position of deputy secretary for the department of interior. As a true hockey family, we have packed the proverbial stand this morning.
▶ 0:24:34Ms. Macgregor: And I am blessed to be joined by many family and friends, including representatives of the 2004 university of pennsylvania varsity women's crew team, members of the best women's hunting group this side of the mississippi, my best alaskan fishing and baking buddy, my favorite astronaut, and several individuals who have been amazing mentors to me in my professional career. Finally, and most importantly, I am joined by my parents, jean and peter macgregor, my aunt and uncle sheila and dick sanford, and my brother robert and his wife michele.
▶ 0:25:03Ms. Macgregor: The three of us are the macgregor hockey line on the congressional hockey team. When I testified here over 5 years ago, I explained my focus to achieve a balance in managing america's public lands, cultural treasures, and natural resources in order to advance the priorities of our president. I understand the deep personal connections that so many people have to the lands and resources managed by interior.
▶ 0:25:23Ms. Macgregor: But in my work in congress and at interior, I also learned firsthand how the decisions we make in washington impact american families and businesses far away from D.C., sometimes for generations. I remember senator king telling me a story about traveling with his grandchildren in an rv to visit some of our nation's parks and it makes me smile because I absolutely remember picnics with my grandparents and cousins at valley forge national park in pennsylvania.
▶ 0:25:51Ms. Macgregor: These are the happy memories that make us smile even long after our loved ones have passed. But I also remember the tough stories of resource management plan delays impeding economic development in rural america, or a woman denied justice simply because law enforcement couldn't reach her due to weather, and of course there was no road. For the last four years, I've been one of those people watching D.C. from afar while falling in love with florida.
▶ 0:26:18Ms. Macgregor: From the dangerous beauty of the everglades and the invasive species issues we face, the importance of being prepared for natural disasters like hurricanes and wildfires, the incredible abundance of our offshore waters, the thrilling call of an osceola turkey as you watch the world wake up from inside a hunting blind, or even just the stunning red/orange glow of jupiter lighthouse at sunset, which is managed by the blm. But more importantly, in my time in the private sector, I have learned a lot.
▶ 0:26:43Ms. Macgregor: I have worked on environmental permitting and compliance for almost every type of energy infrastructure project around our great nation and have grown to appreciate the far-reaching consequences of decisions made in washington, the durability of those decisions, and the timeliness of agency action. As we all know, if there's a federal nexus, there's a federal official somewhere saying yes or no. Or in the worst case just not responding. What I have concluded from outside of dc is that the american people, your constituents, deserve better.
▶ 0:27:13Ms. Macgregor: I cannot imagine any instance where it is just and right that someone wait over 30 years for the authority to build a road to connect their community to better services, over 20 years for a habitat conservation plan, 15 years for a final resource management plan, or over a decade for a pastor in rural arkansas to be able to bury his deceased parishioners in their 100-year old church yard only because the land appraisal for a congressionally-authorized land exchange sat on someone's
▶ 0:27:43Ms. Macgregor: Desk. It is simply unacceptable and frankly it breaks my heart. This is why so many rural americans feel like their government has forgotten them. Don't get me wrong. I've heard really great stories, too. I was so proud to learn that several of the cold case offices that we established under president trump's initiative to address missing and murdered native american/alaska native women and children had solved several cases after many years. Many of you on the dais helped us with this initiative.
▶ 0:28:15Ms. Macgregor: Sadly these little victories seem too infrequent. We need to turn that around. Roads not built, cases left still unsolved, appraisal backlogs, obstacles to public hunting and fishing. These are the reasons I would like to return to interior. I would like to come back to drive change and efficiency and in doing so, I hope we can once again make a difference for the people who rely upon us to show up and do our jobs.
▶ 0:28:39Ms. Macgregor: I am honored to have met with many of you and learn about the many missions at interior that are important to you and your constituents. If confirmed, I will always keep at the forefront of my mind the needs of the american people. After all, it is they who are ultimately watching us here in D.C., and they are hoping for us to work together, consider their needs, and frankly get things done in washington. Thank you again for having me here today and I would be more than happy to take questions.
▶ 0:29:08Chair Lee: Thank you, Ms. macgregor. Mr. danly.
▶ 0:29:15Mr. Danly: Thank you, chairman lee, ranking member heinrich and members of the committee. It is an honor to appear before you again today. I sit here humbly as president trump's nominee for deputy secretary at the U.S. department of energy. Before I get to my comments I , would like to recognize my family and friends in attendance. Behind me sits my wife, frankie. Like the last time I appeared before this committee, our son, james is watching what is happening.
▶ 0:29:44Mr. Danly: For both frankie and james, I want to recognize the sacrifices that the families of those in public service make, those sacrifices are profound. Thank you both frankie and james for your indulgence over the years that I've been in government and when I was in the army especially when I was in , iraq. I also have friends here, including colleagues from throughout my career, among them the lawyers who first taught me energy law, and my advisors from my time at the commission.
▶ 0:30:10Mr. Danly: As the committee is aware, the department of energy performs a the national labs ensure that the united states is, and remains, at the cutting edge of science and technology, the department is responsible for taking care and auditing and overseeing the weapons stockpile, it manages environmental clean-up at legacy waste sites, and it promotes the development and deployment of energy sources and infrastructure.
▶ 0:30:34Mr. Danly: I believe my prior roles as general counsel, commissioner, and chairman at the federal energy regulatory commission give me a unique and important vantage point on how to achieve the president and the secretary's shared vision of ensuring affordable, reliable and secure energy for the american people. The utility and natural gas sectors, the subjects I regulated while at ferc, are a critical component to achieving those goals. Right now we face profound , challenges.
▶ 0:31:01Mr. Danly: Demand for energy is growing and we come to face difficulty in producing and delivering it to ensure the country of prosperity and safety without tackling a number of different problems. There are also great opportunities. America is blessed with the most abundant energy in the world, we have the best technical minds to harness that potential, and a private sector that stands ready to invest the capital, build the infrastructure, and produce the energy we desperately need.
▶ 0:31:26Mr. Danly: We stand on the brink of an energy renaissance in which we can replace growing energy scarcity -- at home and abroad -- with energy abundance for the united states and its allies, improving the lives of our citizens while ensuring our geostrategic position. There are a couple of subjects I would like to touch on before I finish.
▶ 0:31:53Mr. Danly: First, our energy problems and scarcity are driven in large part by our inability to build needed infrastructure. America fails to build things these days. We have a need for all kinds of info structure across the country but the federal permitting regime have become an impediment to that development. Interminable delays, legal challenges that threaten federal permits already issued and an , ever-changing regulatory landscape had come to chill investment.
▶ 0:32:21Mr. Danly: The result of that is that projects take longer to build and are increasingly expensive or -- worse -- never get built in the first place. It will be difficult to achieve our goals of ensuring affordable, reliable, and secure energy to the american people without tackling the problem of federal permitting. Second, relatedly, we have an acute need for more electric generation. The united states is experiencing unprecedented demand for electricity. And that demand is increasing at an accelerating rate.
▶ 0:32:46Mr. Danly: Data centers, ai, and reindustrialization have brought load onto the system at a rate -- speed that we have never seen before. Maintaining our strategic position in the world requires that american have access to affordable, reliable, and secure energy in abundance. I have spent the better part of a decade regulating the energy markets and the reliability of the bulk electric system.
▶ 0:33:05Mr. Danly: I can report that we have systematically failed to compensate baseload generation that we can ensure the retention of needed existing assets and meet the growing demand. This challenge has to be solved. Third and finally, we need to recommit ourselves to america's preeminence as the world's leader in science and technology.
▶ 0:33:29Mr. Danly: The national labs, which are the crown jewel of the department, have been the source of countless advances in science, both pure and applied science, these have driven commercial development, spawned entire industries, and ensured american prosperity. Recently, the national labs have provided advances in quantum computing, nuclear reactors, and fundamental scientific research that promise a new era of science and engineering.
▶ 0:33:51Mr. Danly: We have to recommit to that mission to ensure that america continues to maintain its scientific and technological advantage that the citizens of the united states have relied upon for so many decades. Chairman lee, ranking member heinrich, and members of the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:11Chair Lee: Thank you, Mr. danly. I agree with what you said in your opening statement, when americans think about the department of energy, energy infrastructure, permitting reform, electric power generation. I want to focus on the last thing you mentioned there, the national labs which overlaps with my work as chairman of the intelligence committee.
▶ 0:34:37Chair Lee: A lot of american don't appreciate the department of energy is in charge of these national labs that due to exquisite research into nuclear energy or quantum computing, artificial intelligence and other things. They would be shocked to know that last year 40,000 foreigners visited these national labs and 1/5 of those, 8000 were from russia and china. Doesn't seem to be like the smartest step to be letting russian and chinese scientists into our national labs, what do you think, Mr. danly?
▶ 0:35:07Mr. Danly: Completely agree with that. When you say the word visited, we don't mean just passing through, we mean conducting science in close proximity to the scientists already working at the labs. The national labs are fundamental not just to the research and science I mentioned, but they also have national security missions.
▶ 0:35:30Mr. Danly: When I first learned about the number of adversarial nations, scientists at the national labs, I was so surprised by it, I thought at first I didn't hear correctly. It was shocking the number. It is not just a matter of losing the scientific and technological edge I talked about, it's a matter of grave national security interests that has to be looked at, and if necessary, dealt with.
▶ 0:35:54Sen. Cotton: Most americans would be shocked to know that one out of five scientists visiting our national labs are from china and russia. Also they come from places like iran and cuba and north korea. Do you know how many american scientists get to go to russia and china's equivalent of national labs? The answer would be zero. It doesn't seem to be reciprocal, to use a term that the president likes.
▶ 0:36:20Sen. Cotton: That is why on the intelligence committee for years it's been a bipartisan concern that our national labs seem to allow the scientists in, almost compete to bring them in. The decisions are made at the lab level, not at the level of what you might call the headquarters element of the department of energy drawing on your own intelligence units and the intelligence community more broadly. I have legislation to address this problem. I bet a lot of the problem can be addressed by you and the secretary.
▶ 0:36:48Sen. Cotton: Can I get your commitment that you'll take a look at the legislation, see what needs to be done to address this threat, and do as much as you can with your existing authorities once confirmed?
▶ 0:36:57Mr. Danly: Absolutely. If I should be lucky enough to be confirmed, I will work with you to deal with this problem.
▶ 0:37:03Sen. Cotton: Thank you. The second topic I want to address, something that americans don't think about what they think about the department of energy, the national nuclear security administration, nnsa. About half of the department's budget. They do important work for our nuclear weapons arsenal, a lot of research, production. One thing in particular they do is the production of plutonium pits for nuclear weapons.
▶ 0:37:30Sen. Cotton: We have been a challenge with this for years, supposed to get to the point where we could produce 80 new plutonium pits by 2030. Under the biden administration, that slipped to 2035. Can I get your commitment that you'll advocate for nnsa to get all the budgetary resources it needs to perform its final mission?
▶ 0:37:48Mr. Danly: The nnsa is one of the fundamental elements of american national security. The weapons stockpile is the ultimate instrumentality of sovereignty for the united states. I commit to doing everything I can to, should I be confirmed, that nnsa's mission is discharged fully.
▶ 0:38:11Sen. Cotton: Specifically getting back to 80 pits, what they need to do so in new mexico, south carolina?
▶ 0:38:18Mr. Danly: I'm not certain because I'm not at the department of energy regarding the necessity for the rate of pit production, but it is fundamental to our weapons stockpile. I absolutely commit to doing everything I can to make sure the duties are discharged.
▶ 0:38:33Sen. Cotton: Thank you.
▶ 0:38:36Sen. Heinrich: Ms. macgregor, I want to start with you. During your time, both on the transition team or since you been nominated to be deputy secretary, have you engaged in any discussions about proposed sales of public land with either department of interior or transition team personnel?
▶ 0:38:58Ms. Macgregor: Senator, while I did gladly serve on the transition team as a volunteer in my personal capacity, I did sign in and delay -- an nda related to that work. In my current position, I did not engage in conversation regarding sales of public lands.
▶ 0:39:17Sen. Heinrich: If confirmed, can you commit that any public land disposals will fully comply with existing federal laws, like the federal land policy land management act, federal land transaction facilitation act?
▶ 0:39:33Ms. Macgregor: Absolutely. I fully intend it confirmed to obey the law.
▶ 0:39:39Sen. Heinrich: That brings me to a related question which is the department is currently failing to disperse grant funding that a federal judge has ruled must be dispersed. If you are confirmed, will you ensure to make sure the department follows federal court orders?
▶ 0:39:56Ms. Macgregor: Sir, I'm not familiar with that particular case. However, I know in our discussions in your office, we got into several of those subjects. I know they are very important to you. Absolutely I will commit to working with you on that.
▶ 0:40:14Sen. Heinrich: The great american outdoors act is a very positive example of how this committee and congress as a whole worked in a very bipartisan fashion with president trump and with previous secretaries of interior to provide permanent funding to the land and water conservation act.
▶ 0:40:36Sen. Heinrich: That has had an impressive impact on states across the west, particularly in protecting and expanding hunting and fishing access, something that I know that you are very passionate about, and wildlife habitat. Can we count on you to continue to carry out this law and support this conservation legacy that this committee and president established in 2020?
▶ 0:41:01Ms. Macgregor: Sir, I'm overjoyed for you to highlight one of the issues where you work with president trump on, and absolutely we would love to work with you on further implementation of that act.
▶ 0:41:11Sen. Heinrich: Mr. danly, I want to start with an easy one for you. How do you feel about visiting sandia and los alamos national labs?
▶ 0:41:22Mr. Danly: As we talked about in your office, I cannot wait. I love the national labs.
▶ 0:41:27Sen. Heinrich: That is the right answer. [laughter] you mention permitting reform, and I was glad to hear you bring that up. I think it was one of the high water on this committee in the previous congress. It is not something that we have gotten to the president's desk, both houses of congress, in the same congress.
▶ 0:41:54Sen. Heinrich: What are your thoughts on the product that this committee produced in the previous congress, the importance, I would say the necessity, of coming together around permitting reform package to accomplish some of the goals that you are articulating?
▶ 0:42:10Mr. Danly: Senator, I truly appreciate the effort the committee went through before in trying to streamline and speed up permitting. Just the briefest glance at my statement for the commission shows how important this is throughout the time I was at ferc. I don't actually know the specific bills because there were a bunch of different ones moving around. We not in congress have difficulty tracking everything in congress.
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Danly: There were elements of several of the iteration that I thought were very promising. Just as I has always said before the committee, any help anybody wants, thoughts from me on permitting reform, I'm happy to assist.
▶ 0:42:55Sen. Heinrich: Have to pick and choose here because I'm running short on time. Ms. macgregor, while you were at the department of interior, the number of forest acres treated for wildfire resilience by the blm saw some modest increases. However, from 2021 to 2023, blm treated 50% more acres for wildfire. That was not by accident.
▶ 0:43:25Sen. Heinrich: It was because this committee funded, in particular in both the bipartisan infrastructure law, and infrastructure reduction act, to create streams to deal with for history resilience, prepare to make sure that wildfires are not catastrophic when they do occur. Can you commit to implement the infrastructure bill, ira programs focused strictly on wildfire risk reduction?
▶ 0:43:53Ms. Macgregor: Sir, I was alluding to that conversation earlier. I can absolutely commit to you to work with everything related to forest management. It's extremely important to so many on this committee. It is really important to a lot of humans living in the wildland fire interface. It was absolutely a priority of president trump the last time.
▶ 0:44:15Sen. Heinrich: Thank you. >> senator justice?
▶ 0:44:22Sen. Justice: Let me lead out by saying this. Whether it be any of you, any on the other side of the aisle, anybody on our side, anybody, there is nobody here that loves hunting and fishing, our public lands all across this unbelievable country, there is no one here who worships
▶ 0:44:52Sen. Justice: Wildlife habitat more than I. Nobody. And with all that being said, I have just got to put out a plea more than anything. I want all of us to realize the magnitude of the problem that is right on our doorstep. That is all there is to it. Right on our doorstep. As far as forestry management, I am all in, 100%. On and on and on.
▶ 0:45:24Sen. Justice: But the problem that is facing us today -- and we better listen to this white-haired guy from west virginia -- and it is just this. We have an energy problem that is astronomical. And it is going to be so, so important and so big, we best better get at trying to do something to address the situation.
▶ 0:45:54Sen. Justice: Because it is coming not like a freight train, it is coming, like Mr. danly said to me on the phone, it is coming like bigger than absolutely the demand of world war ii, bigger than any time in our history. Ms. macgregor, Mr. danly, we appreciate so much -- and you are going to do great. You are absolutely going to be confirmed. Absolutely, I am all in.
▶ 0:46:26Sen. Justice: But with that, I would say to anyone, ok, it is time to step up. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? A year and a half from today, our group, everything with demand, we cannot handle it. We cannot handle it, I don't care what you say. You are going to have an electricity meltdown in this country. It is coming, and you are going to have to make a decision. America, you are going to have to make this decision.
▶ 0:46:56Sen. Justice: This is all there is to it. We are either going to stick and say we are going to protect our homes, or we are going to protect energy and our job opportunities. What are you going to do? Because you cannot do both. There is no way. There is no way.
▶ 0:47:16Sen. Justice: Whether it be that side of the aisle, this side of the aisle, any of y'all, these nominees, absolutely, if we don't do something now -- right now -- you talk about duke creek. You are there. You are there, america. Absolutely if you don't watch out, what will happen is just this. We are going to have to defer to people in the world that are not our allies but our adversaries.
▶ 0:47:45Sen. Justice: We are going to either have to say, ok, you have a leg up, not america. That is what is going to have been, and it will happen soon. So all of us, our national labs, we protect, all in. We do everything we possibly can. But we have to get at the absolute issue at hand, and that is just this.
▶ 0:48:12Sen. Justice: There is absolutely no way that if we don't get moving and get moving really quickly, that we are not going to have a colossal problem. Last thing I will add is just this. I am from little old west virginia, but little old west virginia along the way has gotten it right on energy over and over. Little old west virginia along the way stepped up when we had to have them really step up, really step up.
▶ 0:48:42Sen. Justice: Whether it be these terrible world wars we had or whatever it may be, we have always stepped up. We know a lot of what we are talking about about energy. So I congratulate both of you. I don't have a question for either one of you. I know your testimony is rock solid. I have talked with both of you, I believe in both of you. Congratulations on being here. For god six, let's go. We have to do something. Thank you for being here. >> thank you, senator justice.
▶ 0:49:16Sen. Justice: I also agree, you should always listen to white-haired man from west virginia, especially this man from west virginia because I could've given the same remarks, just not as eloquently as you did. Senator wyden.
▶ 0:49:28Sen. Wyden: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. danly, I believe you know that I'm the author of the technology neutral clean energy tax credits, and they have worked out so well in the private sector that 21 house republicans are making it very clear, they want them to stick around. They have set it very explicitly. Your role in this -- people don't know this -- is pretty important here.
▶ 0:49:59Sen. Wyden: You guys have the science, treasury has the taxes. So we have to get you guys in sync. That is why I need to start with asking you, for the record, do you believe that the ira tax credits have brought more private sector investment into the energy space?
▶ 0:50:20Mr. Danly: Thank you for the question, senator. Of course, you and I spoke about this when I visited you in your office. Do I believe it brought more investment?
▶ 0:50:30Sen. Wyden: 21 house republicans think that it sure as hell has.
▶ 0:50:36Mr. Danly: I understand that. It is impossible to run the counterfactual to know what investment would have occurred had the investment is not been there. Certainly the tax credits had an effect on the capital markets, they always do. Every tax regime has a tendency to favor one use of capital over another as we discussed.
▶ 0:50:55Sen. Wyden: As an economic proposition, more choices, like the clean energy tax credits, mean more competition and the opportunity to hold down costs and prices, do you share that view?
▶ 0:51:12Mr. Danly: The details of any particular senate regime matter to that answer. I'm not certain. If he were to take the to its logical extension, that would mean 100% taxation rate, 100% incentive rate would yield the best possible outcome, and that's not true. Actually getting the levels of incentive rate to achieve the objective that congress has, which of course is congress's, article one function.
▶ 0:51:44Mr. Danly: . I don't quibble with that I just don't know what the counterfactual would be for investment.
▶ 0:51:46Sen. Wyden: I will hold a record open so you can give some examples where it is clear that that can lower prices. More choices, more competition. We will go back and forth on examples because I think I have more of them than you do. We go to you, Ms. macgregor. I didn't get a chance to talk about one forrester issue that I feel very strongly about. That is doing more prescribed burns.
▶ 0:52:11Sen. Wyden: Because we have to get out there and get serious about this granular material, all of this stuff that we hear from the experts. Senator manchin, a group of us on a bipartisan basis worked on this. We made a start. But I'm of the view that we have to dramatically increase the focus of the federal government -- and you would be in a position to do something about it -- need to increase this.
▶ 0:52:36Sen. Wyden: In our part of the world, if we don't get out there in the cold weather months, one of the reasons for the cutbacks have been so harmful. We do our best prescribed work when it is cold. You can get in there and get both sides, labor and business, environmentalists, and you can really make big strides. Now we have reduced the number of people we have got.
▶ 0:52:59Sen. Wyden: That hurt us, when we had cold weather, could have been out there, and we have you here who can tell us, yes, I want everyone to know on a bipartisan basis I'm serious about prescribed burns, making a big difference in terms of fighting these infernos we have today. In our part of the world, they are not your grandfather's fires, they are infernos. We need the prescribed burns. Your thoughts?
▶ 0:53:23Ms. Macgregor: Senator, think you were spending time with me, I love to conversation. Also enjoyed your thoughts on grazing as well, how that can be used as a management tool. I know that is something that's been important on this committee. How about you and I go out with a drip torch and go to work?
▶ 0:53:43Sen. Wyden: I will quit while I'm ahead. I think my colleagues, various tremendous interests, on this burn issue. The question is the urgency. Everyone has their laundry list. In our part of the world, 3000 miles from washington, D.C., we want people to be actually hearing us. Sounds like you are open for discussion. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank you.
▶ 0:54:15Sen. Wyden: Appreciate your patience with me. I may have to leave later for another committee hearing. Bear with us on that. Ms. macgregor, I want to start with you. Nationwide housing shortage is something that some states are experiencing more than others. We experience it to a particularly acute degree in the west and in my home state of utah where the federal government owns two thirds of the land. That severely restricts the housing supply.
▶ 0:54:44Sen. Wyden: Law on the books, recreation and purposes act, which authorizes the department of the interior. Public purpose is defined as "for the purpose of providing facilities or services for the benefit of the public and connection, but not limited to, public so if -- health, safety, welfare." in your view, could housing be considered a public purpose, recreation?
▶ 0:55:11Ms. Macgregor: Sir, I think it good.
▶ 0:55:14Chair Lee: In the event that it couldn't, recognizing that some may see it differently or addressing the ambiguity -- I've introduced legislation which follows the template of the recreational and public purposes act, independently allow for that. I was pleased to see recently that there was this announced partnership between the department of housing and urban development and the department of the interior, addressing housing affordability in the west.
▶ 0:55:45Chair Lee: Any idea what action the department of interior can take to tackle the housing crisis?
▶ 0:55:47Ms. Macgregor: Sir, I first want to say that we would love to work with you on that endeavor. For technical assistance, we offer help to the committee when it comes to drafting legislative ideas that are creative. I know housing has being a big issue not just in the west but throughout the country. I recall working on this in the first trump administration with particular attention to park service employees.
▶ 0:56:16Ms. Macgregor: Housing for park service employees tend to be one of the greatest obstacles to get that workforce out into the very rural or sometimes difficult or more expensive areas, so we can have the workforce we need to keep our parks open. When it comes to some of the opportunities there, the rnpp act has some issues with it, reversionary colossus can be difficult and tie up potential homeownership with the full transference of land.
▶ 0:56:43Ms. Macgregor: When people think about owning a home, they believe it belongs to them and that the land is theirs, not pulled back by the federal government or township based on not fulfilling the needs of the act in its original statutory form. I think working on that, working on environmental reviews, efficiency will help make better use of that act.
▶ 0:57:03Chair Lee: I think that's right. One of the reasons why in the housing act we deal with that by leaving a short reversionary interest for a period of 15 years to make sure that it remains in use, single-family housing during that duration. Once the 15-year period lapse, the revisionary period goes away. Mr. danly, president trump six to attack and limit the waste, fraud, and abuse occurring within the U.S. government. $7.3 trillion a year.
▶ 0:57:35Chair Lee: The crumbs that fall from that table will be pretty large, leaves room for people to make mistakes along the way. But some of those mistakes end up being very big and costly. Recently, a number of projects, grants, projects that were mandated by law, such as the laws like the infrastructure investment and jobs act, inflation reduction act, have been exposed as problematic in one way or another, duplicative
▶ 0:58:06Chair Lee: Or otherwise an issue. The department of energy recently canceled a 240 $7 million contract for appliance standards. It can for them, how would you work with congress to make sure that doe isn't frivolously spending taxpayer dollars or spending taxpayer dollars on unnecessary duplicative wasteful projects?
▶ 0:58:26Mr. Danly: Thank you, senator lee. Every government agencies, their subordinate officers, are required to stop waste, fraud, and abuse where it is found. Every contract the government science, every set of funds the government commits has to be done in accordance with the law and in accordance to the preconditions established by the agency's regulations, in terms of the content being honored.
▶ 0:58:53Mr. Danly: This is everything from the basic predicate requirements for the contract to the milestones and conditions. President trump has outlined a very bold vision for reducing waste in federal government spending. I am absolute dedicated to the same purpose. It is the only way to properly stew the taxpayers money. Government should cut that on the lookout for finding greater efficiencies.
▶ 0:59:17Chair Lee: Strictly speaking, outside the context of its own branch, neither legislative or judicial branch is a contracting agency. Contract may be entered into within the legislative branch for the legislative branch, judicial branch, likewise for the judiciary, but typically for the government, generally, contract decisions, overseeing the performance of a contract, entering into the contract, signing a contract, even in some circumstances, refuting a
▶ 0:59:47Chair Lee: Contract for reasons deemed necessary and appropriate by the executive -- those are executive decisions, not legislative or judicial typically. Is that right?
▶ 0:59:54Mr. Danly: Not only does every branch have their own obligations, the executive branch spending -- I don't know the percentages -- but 99.9 percent of the money from government contracts as a much weightier duty to ensure that those dollars are spent properly. There are efficiencies not just in the way government conducts its business through contracting, but in the ways that the contracts are awarded, the types of solicitation that the government undertakes.
▶ 1:00:25Mr. Danly: It is a fundamental problem and there is a huge amount of money spent that doesn't need to be.
▶ 1:00:28Chair Lee: Thank you. Senator king, you are up next.
▶ 1:00:35Sen. Kaine: Thank you. Ms. macgregor, one of my concerns as the ranking member -- we call ourselves cochairs, steve jaynes on the national park subcommittee, is staffing at the national parks. 10 or 15 years ago -- let me put it in perspective. In the last 15 years, staffing at the national parks has fallen by 15%, not counting the cuts that have been made in the last couple of months.
▶ 1:01:06Sen. Kaine: Visitation at the national parks has gone up 15%. So we already have a seven problem -- staffing problem. My request to you is stop cutting people at the national parks and start hiring them. The parks are a gem of america, people visit them, they expect them to be maintained, open, not expect to have to wait in long lines to get into a park.
▶ 1:01:31Sen. Kaine: Can you commit to me that we will stop cutting at the national parks and start to rebuild that very valuable thing?
▶ 1:01:38Ms. Macgregor: So many members of this committee raise that issue because we understand how important it is to keep those parks open especially for tourism and economic dollars flowing into your communities. I absolutely will commit to you to making sure that we work to have the appropriate staffing levels, to keep those parks open, get as many people as possible into them.
▶ 1:02:00Sen. King: I would hope the appropriate staffing levels would be somewhat higher than they are today, given the fact that we already from the 30% gap in what has happened, forgetting about the recent cuts. This is essential and I think it would be a great disservice to the american people to compromise the availability of our national parks. Second thing on the parks is maintenance.
▶ 1:02:25Sen. King: As you and I discussed, the great american outdoors act, I think, was one of the signal achievements of the first trump administration which had a big piece of money for deferred maintenance. The problem is we are still differing maintenance. I thought all the way up to the office of management and budget in the prior administration to try to get the budget increased. It is a false economy to not make repairs. They will only have to be done in the future and will cost more.
▶ 1:02:55Sen. King: Will you work with us and the congress to increase the maintenance budget at the national parks? It is not very exciting but something we have to do.
▶ 1:03:02Ms. Macgregor: Sir, coming from the private sector, I understand the importance of dollars on an annualized basis. It is interesting and there is a lot to dig in on on the implementation of the great american outdoors act. We talk about how we work to advance this amusing legislation , and no maintenance backlog has somehow gone up. We have a lot of work to do together on this and absolutely commit to working with you.
▶ 1:03:28Sen. King: One way to keep it from going up is to quit digging the hole, and that is what we are doing right now. Mr. danly, I agree about permitting reform. I was one of the supporters of the bill here. I hope we can bring that bill back to life and perhaps improve it. I assume you agree that part of the permitting reform has to be transmission to permitting reform because we are all talking about increasing electricity.
▶ 1:03:54Sen. King: Electricity has to get somewhere, and transmission is one of the real serious bottlenecks right now, reinventing our electric system. Do you agree?
▶ 1:04:02Mr. Danly: To date, the real problems with federal permitting have not been seen in transmission. Other than the backsliding --
▶ 1:04:10Sen. King: Serious about that? We have transmission projects in the west that have been pending for 20 years.
▶ 1:04:17Mr. Danly: For the most part, other than when you have federal land crossings, which occur more in the west and in the east, but the places where we have the highest congestion costs are in the east. They are examples where that is not true. Most exciting and permitting happens at the state level for transmission. Transmission lines generally, there is the backstop citing authority that was reenacted again. Of course transmission have to be a part of the solution, part of the discussion.
▶ 1:04:48Mr. Danly: As the demand grows and we have to have a more robust transmission system, both to meet nerc reliability standards and to get power to its destination, we had to increase transmission lines all over the country.
▶ 1:05:00Sen. King: That has to be part of the solution. You talked about research. One of the things that disturbs me about what is going on right now in the administration is cutting research dollars all over the place. Department of health and human services, even research on alzheimer's, which I don't simply understand. Department of energy is one of the leading research part of our government.
▶ 1:05:24Sen. King: I think you mentioned basic research being important, that is not immediately commercially valuable, so it will not be done in the private sector. Fracking was invented under department of energy research grants in the 1980's. Do you agree we have to maintain the research budget, not only at the national level, but the other work at the department of energy is doing in research on energy development?
▶ 1:05:48Mr. Danly: Yes. Congress has turned the department of energy with conducting this research. As I mentioned in my opening statement, the number of advances we have had has changed america's commercial outlook, created new industries. The money spent on basic research -- the national labs, not think commercially viable on their own.
▶ 1:06:20Mr. Danly: Nevertheless, they are important. I absolutely agree with you that this research is important, central to the function of the department of energy.
▶ 1:06:29Sen. King: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I hope we can have a second round because I have a few more questions.
▶ 1:06:35Chair Lee: Senator hyde-smith.
▶ 1:06:40Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Very excited about your nominations. I want to associate myself with remarks of senator justice. I think you are going to do a fantastic job. Thank you for your willingness to do this. I want to start with Ms. macgregor. Sure enjoyed our visit.
▶ 1:07:01Sen. Hyde-Smith: We talked about the vicksburg national military park, historical park sites in natchez, mississippi. I would certainly love your commitment on reaching our goals there. We are looking at several things, the visitors center, but it is mississippi's number one tourist destination, the military park. We are very proud of that.
▶ 1:07:27Sen. Hyde-Smith: One of the other things is the offshore oil and gas exploration and production in the gulf of america. It is crucial to both the president's energy agenda and to the economies of the goal states. Revenues from lease sales support our states and fund mandatory programs such as the land water and conservation fund , mandatory lease sales in the gulf would further boost this revenue.
▶ 1:07:57Sen. Hyde-Smith: I support senator cassidy's bill to mandate two offshore oil and gas lease sales per year for the next 10 years, and look forward to working with him and this committee to advance that legislation. Where I am from, so many of our residents there have employment there. We know what fossil fuels do. They have really been in dire need in the last few years.
▶ 1:08:26Sen. Hyde-Smith: But do you consider continued offshore oil and gas development visits vital to our nation security and economy? Will you support our efforts to mandate lease sales, especially if the department works on a new five-year leasing plan?
▶ 1:08:41Ms. Macgregor: Senator, thank you for the question. I love our visits together. Absolutely I can commit to you working on that legislation. I know that the gulf of america has been one of the largest energy producing provinces in our country for decades. Innovations that come out of that offshore province have been exported throughout the world. Ultimately, that was created and innovated here in the united states.
▶ 1:09:10Ms. Macgregor: I would like to see that province produce long into the future as the statute requires, we need to make those resources available for national need. I think the american people would like to see their prices come down in energy. I will absolutely work with you and the senators on various solutions for that.
▶ 1:09:30Sen. Hyde-Smith: The invitation certainly stands open for the military park.
▶ 1:09:35Ms. Macgregor: I would love to.
▶ 1:09:37Sen. Hyde-Smith: Mr. danly, thank you for being here. I cannot tell you how excited we are that you are willing to do this, and look so forward to working with you. As we know, reliable, affordable energy and a resilient grid is critical for continued economic growth, especially in company that make investment and expansion decisions based on access to inexpensive reliable energy.
▶ 1:10:06Sen. Hyde-Smith: As demand grows, so does the need for more baseload power. I believe nuclear energy continues to be at the forefront of the conversation, providing more safe, clean, reliable power to meet those growing demands. We are very excited about this, looking forward to some growth. What steps do you see the department of energy taking to advance nuclear, including new technologies such as small modular nuclear reactors?
▶ 1:10:35Mr. Danly: Thank you for the question, senator. Most of my discussions with members of the committee, the subject of advancing nuclear energy has been very common in all of the talks I've had. Probably the most important thing that the department of energy can do, in fact has done, the first civilian nuclear power demonstrations were done in the national lab. Department of energy started the entire process of creating civilian nuclear power.
▶ 1:11:05Mr. Danly: It is to continue the work being done at the national lab to prove and have demonstration cases for smr's, next generation nuclear power. There were any number of regulatory and commercial hurdles to commercialization of nuclear, all which I would love to see either overcome or changed. I don't see a way that we can meet the demand we are facing without having nuclear power as part of the solution. Right now it makes about 20% of the total generation in the united states.
▶ 1:11:35Mr. Danly: If we increase our installed load at the rate that I think we are going to, we will have to build more nuclear to provide that baseload generation. The department of energy will be key to that.
▶ 1:11:45Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you. I am out of time.
▶ 1:11:47Chair Lee: Senator gallego.
▶ 1:11:52Sen. Gallego: Inc. You come Mr. chair. I was sound like a broken record. When you are this low on the dais, everyone takes the great questions. To echo the senator's comments on staffing and national parks -- we spoke earlier about this. Arizona, we are entirely dependent, especially northern arizona region, the economy is entirely dependent on our national parks and tourism.
▶ 1:12:17Sen. Gallego: We want to make sure there is some good thought, for thought before we have more layoffs, if possible, bring back these workers. It actually is and that many in arizona to begin with. The fact is, they produce billions and billions because they get such a great experience visiting our gems? Jams? Gem. Sorry, english is my second language.
▶ 1:12:48Sen. Gallego: Moving on, further conversations of smr, nuclear power. When I was meeting with secretary wright during his nomination, we talked about the need for more nuclear energy deployment. Especially in arizona, we have a three-pronged problem. People want to move to arizona because it's a great state, great weather, great representation come in my opinion. But we also have a great economy, high energy economy.
▶ 1:13:17Sen. Gallego: Whether it is the chips, ancillary businesses that feed chips, data warehouses moving into arizona because arizona, for a lot of the problems that we have with forest fires, the likelihood of us having any type of massive emergency that will destroy these data warehouses are slim to none. What does that mean? We have an energy problem coming up in arizona.
▶ 1:13:46Sen. Gallego: 30% of our energy portfolio is nuclear. I would like to see it grow. I want to make sure we can do anything we can to do that including fixing regulatory burdens and hurdles or anything else. Love to make sure that we have an ability to work with that in a bipartisan manner. The country can supply quicker and faster nuclear energy, the quicker the country will be able to really own the next 100 years.
▶ 1:14:16Sen. Gallego: C1 ai is important but only matters if you can use energy. Since everyone took my questions, I will go deeper with Ms. macgregor here in terms of drought in arizona. Something I think you worked on when you are on the house natural resources committee.
▶ 1:14:40Sen. Gallego: In the last four years we have learned that the dam has design flaws that limit its ability to pass water at low elevations, which is bad when we have drought. So we need to fix this dam as soon as possible. We need the ability to pass water around the dam if hydrology gets worse. So if we don't not have enough snowmelt.
▶ 1:15:03Sen. Gallego: I would like to ask you, will you make fixing this dam the delivers water to approximately 30 million people in mackey basin a priority?
▶ 1:15:13Ms. Macgregor: I know we had a great conversation about the drought and how it impacts water users in your state, especially for hydropower. I think I am curious about some of the decisions of the last administration and I know that was an alternative that was scoped in one of the initial reviews of alternatives, so I will commit to working with you on that and other issues related to drought.
▶ 1:15:39Sen. Gallego: In general on the drought question, in arizona whiskey is for drinking and water for fighting. The colorado river supports the economy and is a primary water source for 40 million people. It supports 5.5 million acres of agriculture. Since 2001, the colorado river has been grappling with uncertainty with increasing intensity.
▶ 1:16:08Sen. Gallego: Can you please share your thoughts on key priorities that deal I will use to avoid the need of crisis to crisis management and provide predictability on water supplies for our community? >> I know the river is important to so many.
▶ 1:16:26Sen. Gallego: I think seven basin states are almost all represented on this committee and I know there are opinions reaching across all their states and me, so not just the states but tribes and people who depend on that getting it right.
▶ 1:16:41Sen. Gallego: My hope is ultimately that that is what and remains in has been successful in the past is a state solution and interior will be playing a role in that and I think that is one of the important issues facing the water and science hallway at the department.
▶ 1:17:08Chair Lee: Senator cassidy, you are next.
▶ 1:17:09Sen. Cassidy: Thank you both for the chance to meet with you both. Some of these questions seem like what we talked about. Ms. macgregor, last week the department of interior's office natural resources announced its 2020 four disbursements to the four states along the gulf of america. As expected, revenues exceeded the $375 million cap.
▶ 1:17:40Sen. Cassidy: If they cap are higher, there will be dollars there to rebuild the coastline to protect communities from hurricanes like katrina or harvey because we know when you build out your wetlands you absorb the impact from the hurricane, which means settled areas have less damage.
▶ 1:18:01Sen. Cassidy: We use that money for flood protection and coastal restoration by a state constitutional mandate, so I have a bill which would lift the caps on state funds and ensure states hosting energy development directly benefit from those activities. Given your experience as deputy secretary of the interior, how important is an effective model for revenue-sharing?
▶ 1:18:27Ms. Macgregor: Thank you for the question. With you hailing from louisiana and mia from florida, hurricanes have a new depreciation for their devastation. When it comes to revenue-sharing, I agree it is the law now. We are required to faithfully execute when it comes to revenue-sharing. As many senators now, those are also donated to the water conservation fund that has impacts in everyone's districts.
▶ 1:19:00Ms. Macgregor: I look forward to working with you on that and I understand that is important to all four gulf states.
▶ 1:19:05Sen. Cassidy: How would you envision working with the secretary on the gulf of mexico -- to support energy dominance?
▶ 1:19:15Ms. Macgregor: For leveraging greater in the gulf of america, we have a lot to work on and I think it is important that senators understand we will obey the law. We will follow the contours of the outer continental shelf lands act as required but I think the american people would like to see more than just two to three sales.
▶ 1:19:39Ms. Macgregor: In the past, we have had a few sales and not just in the gulf of america but in alaska and beyond. I know the resources are concentrated and in alaska and we look forward to working with everyone on measures that will further embrace offshore energy.
▶ 1:19:58Sen. Cassidy: Louisiana is home to 60% of the current lng exports and a large number of projects are awaiting permitting approval. I appreciate what president trump and the department of energy have done to help unleash this lng bonanza. How can d.o.e.
▶ 1:20:21Sen. Cassidy: -- what can deal we do to further eliminate barriers to lng exporting, including through improved permitting?
▶ 1:20:29Mr. Danly: Thank you for the question. It should probably come as no surprise that I care a lot about lng exports. I have worked on the subject from the commission side for years.
▶ 1:20:42Mr. Danly: The most important thing is to return to the statutory standard in section three of the natural gas act, which at the resumption for the granting of permits to non-free-trade ream in countries where you would have to demonstrate affirmatively that the export is not consistent with public interest, which is a analytical rubric that requires examination of a handful of different elements but returned to the standard which had been a
▶ 1:21:13Mr. Danly: Standard for decades beforehand.
▶ 1:21:17Sen. Cassidy: The idaho national laboratory accelerated talent development in louisiana to benefit the rest of the nation. This is the first formal partnership between a national lab in louisiana inner-city, so how can you ensure that doe labs prioritize research, supporting energy and manufacturing sectors?
▶ 1:21:45Mr. Danly: I am not at the d.o.e. And do not know all the details about these partnerships. I'm happy to talk to you and cooperate.
▶ 1:21:57Sen. Cassidy: We have the ecosystem that is developing the technology for not only our nation but the rest of the world and I like my louisiana talent to be able to benefit and that development being supported by the doe.
▶ 1:22:14Mr. Danly: I think it is fundamental to doe objectives and its research mission to get as much talent as we can from wherever possible. We want the best scientists and engineers working on the hardest problems.
▶ 1:22:29Chair Lee: Senator cortez masto. Sorry, senator hirono. I apologize.
▶ 1:22:39Sen. Hirono: Welcome to both of you. As part of my responsibility to ensure the fitness of all nominees who come before any of my committees, I ask the following initial questions. I will start with Ms. macgregor. Since he became a legal adult, have you ever made ill wanted -- unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
▶ 1:23:04Ms. Macgregor: I have not.
▶ 1:23:06Mr. Danly: No.
▶ 1:23:07Sen. Hirono: Have you ever face discipline or entered a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
▶ 1:23:14Ms. Macgregor: Have I ever --
▶ 1:23:17Sen. Hirono: Have you ever face discipline or entered into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
▶ 1:23:22Ms. Macgregor: I have not.
▶ 1:23:24Mr. Danly: No.
▶ 1:23:25Sen. Hirono: For Ms. macgregor, don't just list federal lease terminations. On that list is the ironworks building. This currently houses U.S. geological survey employees that work for the hawaiian volcano observatory, which was destroyed during the 2018 kilauea eruption.
▶ 1:23:50Sen. Hirono: The building provides temporary offices and storage space while the permanent hawaiian volcano observatory is built. It is planned for completion in two years. They moved to terminate the lease with no clear plan on where employees will work or store equipment in the interim makes me question the administration's regard for the important role volcano employees
▶ 1:24:21Sen. Hirono: -- vulcan observatories play. Do you believe the volcano program is important and if so what will you do as deputy secretary to ensure the employees are able to carry out their critical, lifesaving work?
▶ 1:24:39Ms. Macgregor: I want you to know in the first trump administration I spent quite a bit of time with the usgs hazards team, especially on some of the seismic systems installed in the pacific northwest related to earthquake early warning systems. I know how important they are to communities. While I'm not in the building and haven't seen a list of cancellations, I will absolutely work with you on your needs and those of the people of hawaii.
▶ 1:25:10Sen. Hirono: That sounds as though you consider their work to be critical and that they need a place to work from and store the things they need. So we will work to make sure that happens?
▶ 1:25:22Ms. Macgregor: Yes, I will work with you especially on a lot of the hazard systems. >> in your 2019 testimony before the committee you noted your introduction to the department mission was through visiting valley forge national park and national park stroke or passion for american history and understanding for the importance of preserving special places.
▶ 1:25:51Ms. Macgregor: Similarly, during secretary berkus's -- burgess's nomination hearing cut he asserted we have to protect every single inch of our national parks. There are currently hundreds near national park boundaries threatening the preservation of these special places.
▶ 1:26:16Ms. Macgregor: President trump issued an executive order directing senator burgum -- secretary burgum to prioritize mining-related purposes as a primary use of federal land with mineral deposits. My question to you is how would allowing companies to mine in or near national park's preserve every single inch of our national parks?
▶ 1:26:42Ms. Macgregor: I'm unfamiliar of any situation where there is mining directly in a national park. Can you give me an example? That you are referring to that I can look at?
▶ 1:26:54Sen. Hirono: There are hundreds of mining claims. The president says these claims can be acted upon, people will be directed to let them do so. That is the question. How does that comport with the desire to protect every sickle inch? It sounds like we might have a little bit of a misunderstanding .
▶ 1:27:21Sen. Hirono: When I hear public lands, I think most will use and public sustained yield lands managed by the beyond, not the -- nothing national park service p remind understanding of the protections under the organic act and establishment of these national parks, their maintenance and continued --
▶ 1:27:39Sen. Hirono: My time is pretty much up, but you would say allowing mining in our national parks would be probably incompatible? With a desire to save? You would want to save these treasures as a priority?
▶ 1:27:56Ms. Macgregor: I'm not familiar of any national park, and I could be wrong, where there is mining within side the boundaries of the park.
▶ 1:28:04Sen. Hirono: The president wants you to go there. We are going to need to see what happens. Because he wants these federal lands to be used for extraction purposes. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:28:16Sen. Hirono: Senator murkowski.
▶ 1:28:22Sen. Murkowski: Welcome, both of you. I enjoyed our conversation. I'm looking forward to you being back to fix a lot of things. Many of the issues we spoke about in my office related to federal land, better consultation with alaska natives , extending as well to restoring what we do with our multiple use lands, natural hazards like wildfires, producing more
▶ 1:28:53Sen. Murkowski: Energy, a lot to do. Mr. daley, you have been before this committee multiple times as well. I'm looking forward to working with you to help address some of alaska's energy challenges, from microgrids to geothermal to advanced nuclear. I want to follow on the comment made by the senator from arizona .
▶ 1:29:18Sen. Murkowski: I just came from a critical minerals discussion this morning and as I look to our opportunity to be able to access these great resources that we need, until we figure out how to deal with power in some of these from a areas it is going to be hard to do and I look at small module reactors and advancements that come from here as being a real opportunity.
▶ 1:29:47Sen. Murkowski: I want to address a couple questions to both of you. Hopefully they should be very quick and easy. I know that you are not in the building yet. I get that. But we have all watched as we have seen this effort to reduce the size of governments and certainly within the to permit of energy and department of interior I have been concerned and expressed how many of these employees have been treated in
▶ 1:30:17Sen. Murkowski: This process. I would ask that you both commit to a, that you will abide by the statutory requirements to notify congress of any plans to reorganize, restructure, or implement reductions in force. I am the chairman on the interior appropriations committee that has oversight here.
▶ 1:30:41Sen. Murkowski: We have sent letters to the secretaries themselves with regards to the requirement and law about advanced notification and then just from my perspective as a senator who represents a state that has a lot of public lands and a big federal prison -- presence, we have a lot of engagement and interaction, so I would just ask
▶ 1:31:11Sen. Murkowski: Again if I could have your commitment that you will be transparent with us about what is coming and to abide by statutory requirements to notify.
▶ 1:31:21Ms. Macgregor: I can commit to obey all federal laws when it comes to any efficiency efforts we are working on.
▶ 1:31:29Mr. Danly: I also commit to following the law for all of the efficiency efforts.
▶ 1:31:34Sen. Murkowksi: I have had an opportunity to talk not only to you but my colleagues here on the committee know that we are facing a situation in alaska with declining production with regards to our natural gas and facing what I think is an unforgivable direction, and that would be the prospect of lng imports potentially from canada,
▶ 1:32:05Sen. Murkowksi: So I would ask both of you to partner with me and the delegation to advance the alaska projects and support development of our resources so we can avoid reliance on energy imports. For a state that has as much as the state of alaska has, there is no good reason we should be relying on canada to keep our lights on. Do I have that commitment? >> you do.
▶ 1:32:34Sen. Murkowksi: I was just as shocked when you informed me of that and I look forward to working with you on those issues.
▶ 1:32:38Mr. Danly: It is crazy to think that alaska would be importing energy. I commit to working on that with you.
▶ 1:32:46Sen. Murkowksi: You but we have a lot to offer their and Ms. macgregor, I want to take you back to some of our greatest hits from when you were in the first trump administration. Some of the alphabet issues that you worked on, itr, pelo. -- plo. We have to make progress on that.
▶ 1:33:12Sen. Murkowksi: I also raised with you the issue of bia probate and the backlog that we are dealing with. It should not take five or 10 or more years to resolve these probate cases. I would ask that you put a priority on these issues so we can deal with something that is not only impacting us greatly in alaska but in so many other parts of the country as well.
▶ 1:33:40Ms. Macgregor: I am grateful that you raise that issue. I had never heard of it before but if it is impacting you and the people of alaska and must be impacting so many more on this committee so I look forward to working with you.
▶ 1:33:56Chair Lee: Senator hickenlooper.
▶ 1:34:11Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you for your past public service and willingness to come back into the maelstrom. I will start with you, Ms. mcgregor. Thank you for the time. The staffing cuts that were the major cuts and then people were put back, but even though they have been reinstated there is -- a quarter of all dui employees are on the chopping block.
▶ 1:34:34Sen. Hickenlooper: I think the volatility has staff that I know in colorado and people that have reached out unnerved and there is a level of anxiety there. Obviously the decisions that get made that I think you will have a voice -- I hope you will have a voice in on staffing.
▶ 1:34:54Sen. Hickenlooper: They will have consequences and reverberations in terms of how we use those lands and in terms of conservation and recreation, not to mention energy production or critical minerals. What are your plans or how do you look at trying to ensure that the staff -- you will have that spirit -- the good culture that any group needs to perform at a high level and while they are working to protect our most
▶ 1:35:24Sen. Hickenlooper: Valuable resources?
▶ 1:35:26Ms. Macgregor: Thank you for meeting with me. I had a great meeting with you talking about pennsylvania. It was nice. When I review all of this, I have been watching, like you have, media reports and not in the building as we have talked about already. There are a lot of questions I have but I also think there's a lot of spin and that tends to happen in these instances.
▶ 1:35:51Ms. Macgregor: Ultimately, I support the president's efforts to achieve efficiency in the federal government. I think the endeavor to achieve efficiency should be applauded, but I also agree that to achieve efficiency you have to have talent to move permits.
▶ 1:36:05Ms. Macgregor: You have have talent and an inspired workforce to be able to do the work, so I understand that is part of the job going in the building and I look forward to working with the same excellent career employees I worked with the first time around and working to get moving on a lot of the actions at the department.
▶ 1:36:31Sen. Hickenlooper: Again, I am no stranger to trying to make government more efficient as a mayor and governor. We spent -- we did a hiring freeze for 2.5 years when I was mayor as a way of diminishing the workforce but we found ways to use efficiencies to actually deliver more services to people at a lower cost but I spent a quarter of my time in the agencies talking to the workforce and making sure they were fired up and you how valuable they were.
▶ 1:37:00Sen. Hickenlooper: I do not see that happening right now. I find it concerning. Mr. danly, the same question to you with similar circumstances
▶ 1:37:25Ms. Macgregor: So course I do not know the details of anything going on there. I have read the same press accounts everybody has. I know -- I'm no stranger to dealing with personnel in administrative agencies. Idell personnel and plan to do what I have always done, which is seek the input of the employment council on ethics counsel at the department never making decisions regarding employment.
▶ 1:37:42Sen. Hickenlooper: I wanted to talk about the effort to gain energy dominance. A lot of the clawbacks being discussed of funds that were originally appropriated to support projects to build advanced energy technologies and make investments to try to get electricity more reliable and affordable, the last numbers we saw was the doe may resend up to $104 million of colorado-based
▶ 1:38:13Sen. Hickenlooper: Awards alone pure that is a rumor. Let's throw that number away. But there will probably be a large number because there is a push to try to find savings. In many cases, these funds were already appropriated through congress for things like grid efficiency or grid reliability. Some other form of advanced technology.
▶ 1:38:41Sen. Hickenlooper: Are you willing to commit to that you will obey the law and make sure we do not resend -- rescind funds that are appropriated legally for energy
▶ 1:38:57Mr. Danly: Projects?
▶ 1:38:57Mr. Danly: I have seen the same press accounts everyone else has. Actual rescissions as far as I know have not occurred yet and I do not know the plans are if there are plans. I commit to following the law. This is been the focal point of my entire career so far, doing honor to the statute and I will follow the law.
▶ 1:39:19Sen. Hickenlooper: I think both of you are in crucial positions and will have a lot to do with what happens in the next couple years. We appreciate your service.
▶ 1:39:32Chair Lee: I'm going to jump right in. In montana, we are facing serious hurdles to force measurement projects due to litigation. Our forests no longer have loggers. They are crawling with lawyers. That is a problem. The situation was exacerbated in 2015 when the ninth circuit issued that cottonwood decision.
▶ 1:39:57Chair Lee: As I speak, we have 300 million board feet of timber tied up in litigation in montana, reaching over 500 million board feet tied up because of litigation. That decision creates a cyclical procedural requirement to consult under the endangered species act after a new species is listed and you critical habitat is designated or new information is found.
▶ 1:40:25Chair Lee: We just need to get the ninth circuit court to be congruent with the other circuits and that is essentially what the cottonwood fixed does. It passed this committee with strong bipartisan support, so we are ready to act on it again. We are going to need help getting across the finish line.
▶ 1:40:43Chair Lee: We have seen hundreds of projects across states in the ninth circuit delayed because we have the forest service and fish and wildlife service attempting to meet the some big U.S. standard with no on the ground impact. We have this legislation with strong bipartisan support, so do you commit to working with me and congress to ensure a permanent solution is found either thread ministry of action or through this legislative fix?
▶ 1:41:17Ms. Macgregor: It is no laughing matter. It is life or death in a lot of your states. We absolutely commit and I personally commit to working with you on that. I know getting certainty so these actions can continue is important and I was -- I should say I was very inspired by all of you and efforts you all and to amend me for -- dniepe --
▶ 1:41:49Ms. Macgregor: Nepa for the first time in 50 years. I know this body can help us implement laws in a more efficient way.
▶ 1:41:58Sen. Daines: There are so many wins if we can get this problem fixed. Overall, improved trout habitat. Those streams get hammered with silt for major disasters and wildfires, so lots of benefits, not to mention we have had football games on friday nights in montana canceled because of air quality. This is not the smog of l.a..
▶ 1:42:25Sen. Daines: This is smoke coming from wildfires, so it is a health risk as well. Then we have the tragic examples of firefighters losing lives try to fight these very hot and robust fires. With your experience, you have firsthand knowledge of energy and transmission needs. Our energy demand is only predicted to grow and to meet this demand we must expand energy production, not replace it.
▶ 1:42:55Sen. Daines: With rising demand -- every time I meet with a tech ceo today, the conversation is not about the constraint of the workforce. The constraint is energy and we want to move forward with the increase in datacenter's and so forth to meet demands of ai and quantum computing. With rising demands, we need to ensure we can maintain our greatest ability and the key to grid stability is baseload power.
▶ 1:43:26Sen. Daines: Doing this one sure we have access to affordable, reliable power 24/7 and year-round. As we talked yesterday, transmission systems are crucial to deliver this power but we need to expand systems if we are going to bring new projects off the grid. Montana, the department of energy is involved in numerous projects that will help enhance energy dominance and support energy needs.
▶ 1:43:53Sen. Daines: How do you envision the department of energy strengthening partnerships with our states and communities and energy companies to expand energy production and transmission across the united states?
▶ 1:44:09Mr. Danly: I appreciated the conversation we had in her office yesterday. The department of energy has different programs designed to permit commercialization of or lp with improvement of the pre-existing facilities that were fundamental to keeping the trend mission system working or developing new generation and the president and secretary have both shown enthusiasm for the
▶ 1:44:41Mr. Danly: Idea of getting as much new generation online and connected as possible and the department is going to use every one of the tools at his disposal to ensure we have as much generation available and as resilient a power system as we can get.
▶ 1:44:55Mr. Danly: You are correct that the constraining factor for tech companies now is power, not just the amount of delivered real power but also connection sites available to actually connect to facilities and availability of power on a reliable basis. It can be challenging in constrained areas to achieve both of those and we will not be able to meet commercial demands of our companies we do not ensure there is more power available.
▶ 1:45:26Chair Lee: Senator cortez masto.
▶ 1:45:33Sen. Cortez Masto: During your first nomination hearing before the hearing -- before the committee in november 2019, I asked if you agreed that renewable energy should continue to play an important role in our energy mix. He replied undoubtedly here in response to my follow-up question, you agreed that renewables like wind and solar power can be reliably integrated into the power grid. Do you still agree today?
▶ 1:46:05Mr. Danly: I remember that confirmation hearing like it was yesterday. They can be integrated. There are challenges to integration. It is not the same type of generation the power system was built on.
▶ 1:46:20Mr. Danly: When you reach a certain threshold, the challenges become multiplicative, so there are thresholds that can be reached where it becomes more difficult, but the idea that in a time of demand we are facing now that we will turn away any megawatts available seems irrational to me. There are engineering problems.
▶ 1:46:39Sen. Cortez Masto: In response to another follow-up question you agreed states will the authority under the federal power act to establish the resource mix that best serves their customers. Do you hold that position?
▶ 1:46:51Mr. Danly: The states -- the law has not changed and either has my opinion. The states are granted the authority to determine what generation is within their borders.
▶ 1:47:01Sen. Cortez Masto: This is a question for both of you. As you have heard from my colleagues who have been concerned by what you might be walking into in your respective departments, we are seeing decisions by the current administration from tariffs to firings to restructurings that are undercutting our national economies, including in emerging and critical industries like outdoor recreation, travel, and
▶ 1:47:31Sen. Cortez Masto: Tourism. The chaotic executive orders and actions often have to be walked back or reversed, such as the firing of federal fire fighters or in my state nuclear safety officials.
▶ 1:47:49Sen. Cortez Masto: My question to both of you, and I will start with you, if confirmed will you commit to transparency on future actions taken by you and your departments and prioritize substantive responses to overdue questions that me and my colleagues have requested in letters?
▶ 1:48:10Mr. Danly: This committee has seen my correspondence in response to her letters before when I was a commissioner. I did not give you the pro forma one page. I had 90 page missives that lead bear everything at the commission. I have no problem telling this committee or any member of congress anything they want to know about what we do.
▶ 1:48:29Ms. Macgregor: I agree that sunshine is always important for this committee and the american people to understand how government is working.
▶ 1:48:40Sen. Cortez Masto: Much of the west has been experiencing historic drought. One of my colleagues may have asked already, but let me further elaborate. Nevada is one of several basin states that relies on water from the colorado river. We are currently gauged in negotiations to set guidelines for future water allocations because we also know the current guidelines expire in 2027 and we need to start now and have started even before now.
▶ 1:49:09Sen. Cortez Masto: But the new operations have to be in place before the end of 2026 to avoid confusion and conflict for the southwestern united states. Despite 20 years of collaboration, the upper and lower basin have not yet reached agreement.
▶ 1:49:25Sen. Cortez Masto: The department of interior must be a leader to bring the seven basin stays together on these alternatives and develop the post 2026 guidelines as deputy secretary, how will you prioritize this process to ensure the basin can reach a consensus, avoid litigation before time runs out? With the necessary guidelines that we have to pass?
▶ 1:49:54Ms. Macgregor: Thank you for the question. I was able to enjoy several meetings with senators about this issue and I know that avoiding litigation on this important basin is a must.
▶ 1:50:14Ms. Macgregor: And it is going to be a priority of the department to work together with the seven basin states, tribes, water users, hydropower generators, everyone who relies on a smart solution that must be state led.
▶ 1:50:30Sen. Cortez Masto: I am looking forward to that. We need that involvement. If you do not know, the senators all work well together on this particular issue and we are looking for that involvement from the department of interior as well.
▶ 1:50:44Chair Lee: Senator padilla.
▶ 1:50:49Sen. Padilla: Echoing comments on the entire basin states working well together because you know how critical that is and we had that conversation yesterday. Definitely appreciate the opportunity to go through some of my priorities with you.
▶ 1:51:11Sen. Padilla: I hope you took away from our meeting the constant theme of collaboration on so many of these intricate and complex issues, including but not limited to the recently established national monuments in california.
▶ 1:51:28Sen. Padilla: As mentioned, these protected landscapes -- we crafted very intentionally to ensure that there is no energy potential being compromised as a result of the designation of the national monument and I think you have that confirmation through the endorsements of these monuments by energy utilities and energy developers. I raise the same background with sec. Burgum in our conversations and in writing.
▶ 1:52:00Sen. Padilla: The departments review that has been called for public lands must include meeting with stakeholders involved. Stakeholders and include the congressional delegation, the governor of california, the state energy agencies, local officials, and tribal leaders who actually spearheaded the movements and creation of these monuments.
▶ 1:52:27Sen. Padilla: So it took me by surprise when last month the administration issued that they had rescinded a fact sheet that suggested the white house terminated the recently designated national monuments despite the fact that the president in my opinion does not have the legal authority to undo a monument.
▶ 1:52:50Sen. Padilla: I'm not sure if you were involved at all with the crafting of the executive order or the fact sheet, that I guess my first question would be are you aware of the broad bipartisan cut local, and tribal support for the national monuments?
▶ 1:53:06Ms. Macgregor: I have closely watched that monument establishment. Yes.
▶ 1:53:17Sen. Padilla: I wanted to get you on the record for broad-based supports of these monuments. You believe that local communities and tribal leaders should have a say in management of their public lands?
▶ 1:53:27Ms. Macgregor: I think local involvement is something everyone on this dais agrees
▶ 1:53:34With Sen. Padilla: . We are talking just about you.
▶ 1:53:39Ms. Macgregor: Local involvement is embedded in almost all the organic acts of the department, so yes.
▶ 1:53:45Sen. Padilla: Good-faith consultation and engagement is what we are looking for. As the debarment did under the first trump administration, will you commit to releasing any rollbacks he may be considering for public comment prior to taking action if confirmed?
▶ 1:54:03Ms. Macgregor: It is hard for me to commit on a clearly hypothetical question related to the antiquities act, especially given the antiquities act of 1906 has the designation of monuments purely within the ambit of president of the united states. I know that monument and many monuments are important to you and the state of california. I will work with you, but I have not yet seen any direction from the president yet.
▶ 1:54:34Ms. Macgregor: I'm familiar with that in the past. I have not seen any yet, unless I missed something related to view of our national monuments.
▶ 1:54:43Sen. Padilla: The antiquities -- I was not trying to debate the antiquities act, just referencing what seems to be policy in the first trump administration of sharing publicly before efforts to roll back. I would hope that continues in this second administration. A question in my time remaining for Mr. danly.
▶ 1:55:05Sen. Padilla: California was the first state in the nation to launch a hydrogen hub, which will facilitate a network of hydrogen production sites to catalyze the use of hydrogen through california and jumpstart the hydrogen economy not just in california but across the country. California hub enjoys bipartisan support from our california delegation.
▶ 1:55:29Sen. Padilla: Asked week, the department of energy -- last week, the department of energy cut list included hydrogen hubs to be cut. I want to point out -- is not just critical to california but to our national economy. If confirmed, you commit to working with california to ensure funding is not arbitrarily taken away?
▶ 1:55:55Mr. Danly: Thank you for the question. I have had a series of inquiries like this. I am not in the building I do not know what is contemplated, but I'm happy to work with any member of the committee on the subjects the deal he is working on.
▶ 1:56:11Sen. Padilla: Would you commit to each with -- meet with the staff before any final decision?
▶ 1:56:18Mr. Danly: I am not certain -- should I be confirmed, what my schedule will be like were the norm or -- normal forum for engagement. I would have no objection to doing so. I just -- it is a little premature to start filling calendars for a position.
▶ 1:56:40Sen. Padilla: I'm not looking at time. I am looking at your commitment to willingness.
▶ 1:56:45Mr. Danly: I'm happy to work on any of the projects.
▶ 1:56:50Sen. Hoeven: Welcome to both of you. Appreciate you stopping by and visiting with me and I look forward very much to working with you. Starting with you, Ms. macgregor, we have legislative priorities I would like your help on so I will ask if you will help us.
▶ 1:57:13Sen. Hoeven: We are working on the north dakota trust lands completion act which would allow tribes in our state to swap land with the state to the benefit of the tribes. The other is the theodore roosevelt presidential library. Secretary burgum has worked on it hard. It is a great project.
▶ 1:57:38Sen. Hoeven: We have passed legislation here through this committee and across congress to make it happen, but there is more to do and also the dakota water resources act. Which senator padilla cosponsored with me. Those are legislative priorities. Are you willing to help?
▶ 1:57:58Ms. Macgregor: Absolutely.
▶ 1:58:00Sen. Hoeven: Next is the biden administration implemented on bom -- blm lands with a call a blm public lands rule. It pulls half of the lands to oil and gas and pulls out almost all of them for federal coal. I ask you work with us to rollback that policy.
▶ 1:58:26Ms. Macgregor: I am familiar with that rule. I would be happy to work with you on going on that matter.
▶ 1:58:34Sen. Hoeven: Are you committed to multiple use on federal lands?
▶ 1:58:38Ms. Macgregor: It is the law, so yes.
▶ 1:58:41Sen. Hoeven: Then in a lot of cases we have split states on middle interests between the federal government and state and private individuals. Do you think it is important we get timely response from federal government so as not to disenfranchise individual private property?
▶ 1:59:00Ms. Macgregor: That was in my opening statement. I think timeliness is important. That is also the law.
▶ 1:59:10Sen. Hoeven: Are you pro-horse or anti-horse?
▶ 1:59:14Ms. Macgregor: Depends on the horse.
▶ 1:59:17Sen. Hoeven: Good answer. As somebody who was raised with horses, she knows her stuff. In this case, I'm looking for a pro horse answer because we are working on legislation to protect the horses in theodore roosevelt national park and we would welcome and appreciate your assistance with it if you are so inclined.
▶ 1:59:39Ms. Macgregor: I have some ideas for you. Some horses.
▶ 1:59:43Sen. Hoeven: But you are willing to work with us on it. Mr. danly, we need more baseload for the stability of the grid. I think you're coming into this position to work with secretary right is really outstanding given not only your legal background but your work. Think that is a great background for this position. We need more baseload on the grid.
▶ 2:00:12Sen. Hoeven: I also eat or talk about how we get carbon capture technologies to economic viability. We have technological viability, as our chair knows. How do we get more baseload? How do we get to economic viability?
▶ 2:00:36Mr. Danly: The subject of meeting more baseload power is a subject I have talked about multiple times, including with you in front of this committee. That remains true.
▶ 2:00:52Mr. Danly: Our baseload needs now are not merely for services required to keep the system stable but we need more baseload power because we are having increasing demand for power delivered, so it now has a dual purpose of we need baseload to shore up stability of the power system and to deliver more power reliably.
▶ 2:01:13Sen. Hoeven: Sofer mena new mexico, places like that, we need baseload so we do not getting power.
▶ 2:01:22Mr. Danly: The federal power act is a national power act that tries to make sure everyone can have access. How to get more of it -- we have problems with the development of transmission, a subject that came up before.
▶ 2:01:42Mr. Danly: There's also a problem in the areas that are regulated by jurisdictional markets -- baseload power has been undervalued and we see this in assets that still have -- retirement of assets they still have useful life in them. The way to fix this is to pay rates that are commensurate.
▶ 2:02:07Sen. Hoeven: This is why your experience at ferc is important. And I meant to include washington state and making sure power is viable and available on the hottest day or coldest day. I think this is going to be important to our national grid.
▶ 2:02:27Mr. Danly: It is critical. Without the deployment of sufficient generation -- ai is not the only source of the demand that is rising but it is an important one. The biden administration estimated we are about 18 months ahead in ai development for the language trading -- training models. 18 months is not -- in utility planning terms. There is need to develop generation to meet that.
▶ 2:02:58Mr. Danly: >> I was asking staff if they are memory the last time someone voluntarily mentioned the federal power act at a hearing. Thank you.
▶ 2:03:07Mr. Danly: I would hope I was that person. >> you were. We will go back and search and see last time someone brought it up. We often bring it up as members, but not witnesses voluntarily so I think it shows your prowess. Let me jump into it. As it relates to -- we will stick on this subject for a second.
▶ 2:03:30Mr. Danly: Do you commit to opposing any proposal to auction off assets including those owned -- administration? We do not want to -- bpa's unique situation -- do you commit to not auctioning off any of the assets including by bonneville?
▶ 2:03:55Mr. Danly: Power marketing is a fundamental part of the department of energy. I just do not know anything about -- I know there have been talks at different times to be privatized. I have no interest in that subject historically in my career I do not know enough about that to give an informed answer.
▶ 2:04:21Sen. Cantwell: Take a little homework assignments. So as it to grid modernization, will you advocate for robust resources for national labs to continue to play a role in the forefront of innovation as relates to key energy national defense applications?
▶ 2:04:41Mr. Danly: I think the national labs are fundamental to america's strategic position in the world.
▶ 2:04:48Sen. Cantwell: Great work is being done there. I invite you to come see the fusion technology in the pacific northwest, three different fusion companies that are underway. I think we have to think about this if the united states wants to run fast. If we do, if somebody creates a miracle solution, how do we get it integrated quickly into the grade? I invite you to look at that.
▶ 2:05:15Sen. Cantwell: A big issue for us -- I'm concerned about layoffs from doge and retirements. We do not want to lose qualified workers. One of the major obligations why the federal government has to live up to the tri-party agreement, so will you commit to supporting a budget that meets the milestones of that agreement? Which previous energy secretary is committing to a plan for cleanup.
▶ 2:05:44Sen. Cantwell: These are legal commitments everybody has made, our state as a state this activity is housed and obviously concerned about environmental contamination late a key role in getting those agreements, but will you live up to a budget that lives up to the milestones of the agreement?
▶ 2:06:00Mr. Danly: Fundamentally, budgets are not the purview of the position to which I have been nominated. I can say the cleanup of the legacy waste sites is one of the handful of truly formations of the department and I have every intention of abiding by the agreement to the extent that they department has obligations to discharge.
▶ 2:06:27Sen. Cantwell: So you would worry of so many workers were laid off in the area that you did not think you can meet those milestone agreements?
▶ 2:06:37Mr. Danly: What I be concerned should I be confirmed that we didn't have the workforce to discharge the duties that congress gave us? Yes. That would apply to anything we are told to do.
▶ 2:06:49Sen. Cantwell: I need to get to Ms. macgregor. Last year, we spent 96 days at a national preparedness levels of four and five, which means we are using all our available resources to fight fires. Over the last 10 years, that only happen in 2021 so we are concerned about what the fire season is going to look like. We don't want to see a layoff of critical employees that will help us for the future.
▶ 2:07:20Sen. Cantwell: What -- the department has a responsibility here. How do you make sure we have the workforce we need as part of our incident command teams and will you support -- will you not support reduction of land including selling off of public lands that would reduce our access?
▶ 2:07:44Ms. Macgregor: Thank you for the question. I stated earlier I think in my last hearing one thing that keeps me up at night is wildland firefighters are part of our central workforce and getting them out there is just as just equally as wildfire management efforts that the department not only our department -- states in partnership with us, local communities, do so we can fight
▶ 2:08:21Ms. Macgregor: -- I will commit to work with you on wildland firefighting stuff and make sure we have what we need.
▶ 2:08:27Sen. Cantwell: The two of you are the first when to come before us since all the doge cuts so I'm asking you specifically -- will you stop cuts that will affect wildland firefighting efforts?
▶ 2:08:40Ms. Macgregor: I will evaluate any proposed cuts, should they be proposed for a wildland firefighting cuts and review those closely. I cannot imagine a situation where that would occur, but if it did I would want to make sure that we are balancing and keeping resources we need to fight fire.
▶ 2:09:01Sen. Cantwell: I think most of us would be able to agree no one wants those cuts. We think we need more resources. You will see a lot of western members here and we have a good handle on what is happening. We have had to deal with it for a long time so we had to fight to get money out of deficit reduction and back into firefighting budget. That was a major bipartisan accomplishment led by this committee. We want to keep moving forward.
▶ 2:09:34Sen. Cantwell: The palisades fire is more than a wake-up call. We need more resources, not less.
▶ 2:09:43Sen. Mccormick: Congratulations to both of you and your families. Mr. danly, I am thrilled to see a fellow army man come before our committee and we are talking a lot today about artificial intelligence and the importance of it for our national security. We need power. We need expansion of nuclear power.
▶ 2:10:17Sen. Mccormick: What you think are the biggest challenges to expanding natural gas production and increasing nuclear capacity in united states? Most of them are regulatory. As alluded to earlier.
▶ 2:10:33Sen. Mccormick: But the regulatory burdens that attend the submission of any -- natural gas pipeline are so profound that the risk premiums make it almost impossible to allocate capital rationally, so over the short and intermediate term gas is the solution to poke holes in resource adequacy especially in areas that have constrained transmission systems.
▶ 2:11:04Sen. Mccormick: The biggest problem is the permitting of natural gas pipelines. We recently had two new ap 1000 units that went live. My hope is once the first company went through the fields clearing the path everyone would follow immediately that has not happened. My understanding -- the main problem is rates paid on the back end.
▶ 2:11:37Sen. Mccormick: For the americans served by the markets, it is impossible to get rates paid -- in the long term ongoing costs even though the actual cost to deliver power is reasonable. Everything that goes into the construction permitting is expensive. Really these are regulatory challenges.
▶ 2:12:06Sen. Mccormick: I wanted to bring up the question of critical minerals, which are so necessary to our national security and ensuring we maintain a dominant position vis-a-vis china. China is seeking to get control of supply chains.
▶ 2:12:33Sen. Mccormick: As you know also, domestically many of those critical minerals lie on federal land. The cost delays and overzealous environmental regulations have in the past deterred investments in these capital-intensive projects. What can you do to tackle these challenges to spur mineral development in the united states?
▶ 2:12:56Ms. Macgregor: That is a great question. Coming from pennsylvania, one of the original mining states, it is important our country continue to be a leader and it comes to mining, milling, and in my past position at the to part of the interior I had the stress of reviewing the united states geological survey annual mineral commodity report that goes between 18 to 20 different mineral commodities every year where we are nearly 100% relying
▶ 2:13:27Ms. Macgregor: On foreign adversaries and that worries me very much, especially when we have abundant resources here and smart regulations to be able to deploy them and mined them responsibly and I personally in the past worked on lithium minds in the state of nevada and in the departed last time around. I envision more opportunities in the future.
▶ 2:13:55Ms. Macgregor: If confirmed, I look forward to working on that because we need to be a leader.
▶ 2:14:01Sen. Mccormick: One more question about the national labs. This committee had a meeting about china and its intent to infiltrate universities and labs. As dippy secretary, what role do you expect to play in and cement -- implementing more robust security policies to protect against the risk of former researchers taking our
▶ 2:14:31Sen. Mccormick: Innovation and technology elsewhere?
▶ 2:14:34Mr. Danly: When I first learned about the sheer volume of foreign researchers that came to the national labs and use the facilities in close proximity to other researchers, I was really shocked by it and when I further look into it and found there were seemingly by press accounts few constraints placed on the research being done, I was shocked by it.
▶ 2:15:04Mr. Danly: So I do not know the specific actions, but it is something that is really serious and has to be dealt with immediately.
▶ 2:15:18Sen. King: I would mention one of the bottlenecks on natural gas is it takes five years. They are so backed up. That is a bottleneck in itself. If you -- if you want a gas turbine five years and the ancillary transmission.
▶ 2:15:42Sen. King: We often use the word baseline and you mentioned in your exchange that solar and wind can play an important role. Few add storage then you have the baseline and one of the most important things the department is doing his research into battery storage today learned recently, the availability has exploded over the last three years. >> please don't use that term. [laughter]
▶ 2:16:12Sen. King: It has expanded dramatically. Would you agree this is an important area? Energy, about three cents per kilowatt hour. There also the fastest to the market.
▶ 2:16:34Sen. King: I hope you agree storage is an important area of research and development in order to expand capacity on the grid from all sources.
▶ 2:16:44Mr. Danly: Absolutely. Research into storage is like all research, incremental. But the change in the effectiveness of batteries, the rate of discharge and total capacity availability has increased over time. If we could solve the technical, engineering and cost elements to storage, it is not just a matter of allowing intermittent resources.
▶ 2:17:10Mr. Danly: More continuous output, it also allows for the delivery of services to the power system that otherwise would have to be provided directly by generation and can solve any transmission constraints we need to have generators for.
▶ 2:17:25Sen. King: It could be peak or all kind of roles.
▶ 2:17:29Mr. Danly: Can provide ancillary services, because of the topography of the system could only be fixed by putting in a combustion turbine or something like that.
▶ 2:17:40Sen. King: The department is working on initiatives for battery development and technology so I hope you will be a cheerleader for that when you get to the department.
▶ 2:17:52Mr. Danly: Should I be lucky enough to be confirmed I will cheerlead the national labs and him behind figuring out the search question. >> congratulations to both of you, thank you so much for taking the time to visit.
▶ 2:18:09Mr. Danly: The biden administration's bureau of land management finalize the rock springs management plan in december 2024, not even a week after mark gordon submitted his appeal to the proposed plan, the final plan will devastate the people of southwest wyoming, lock up millions of acres of land that communities in the state rely on peer the commissioners and local communities strongly oppose this
▶ 2:18:39Mr. Danly: Plan that came out in the final days of the biden administration. Will you commit to work with my office and the state to undo this disastrous plan?
▶ 2:18:47Ms. Macgregor: I'm very familiar with that plan. The law itself has a really important consistency review required to be conducted by the blm. It concerns me when you have a research plan for years and the ultimate result ends up inconsistent with what the state would like them of that is something we can absolutely work with you on. >> so before implementing the biden administration's floodplain you will continue to work with us?
▶ 2:19:17Ms. Macgregor: Correct. >> and in buffalo the biden administration finalized a plan for their field office. That will ban new leasing in the river basin, the most energy rich area in the country. It is a shortsighted decision and insult to wyoming communities and insult to energy security. If confirmed would you work with me to reverse this?
▶ 2:19:39Ms. Macgregor: Sir, yes, I will work with you on that plan as well. >> oil and gas the previous administration had disgraceful record on oil and gas management, president biden block production and every turn, referred over 600 thousand acres from leasing in wyoming that were previously cleared for oil and gas production. Glad there is already a lease sale this year. If confirmed will you offer additional acres for leasing.
▶ 2:20:09Ms. Macgregor: It is a requirement of the law, I will obey the law and issue lease sales. >> in terms of sage grouse, wyoming is home to a large population of sage grass and its habitat.
▶ 2:20:23Ms. Macgregor: For over 15 years wyoming has been at the forefront of adopting new management approaches to protect the species and led successful efforts to balance conservation with economic development and the biden administration opposed over 600,000 acres as areas of critical environmental concern. This can halt production and development across the state. Would you be willing to reopen the greater sage management?
▶ 2:20:51Ms. Macgregor: We worked on those plans in the last administration and I was interested to learn that this issue is remaining and needs to be addressed and we will work with you on it. >> the department of the interior plays a critical role in managing lands across the west animals have to land in wyoming is owned by the federal government. Land management has multiple uses required to be manage without impairment of productivity.
▶ 2:21:21Ms. Macgregor: These are places people depend upon accessing for their likelihood -- livelihood. Such as timber harvesting and oil and mineral development. We you support the multiple use mandate of federal lands?
▶ 2:21:32Ms. Macgregor: Absolutely, sir, that is the law. >> the colorado river flows through seven states in the upper basin includes wyoming, new mexico, utah would we need short and long-term solutions with more water storage, improved federal flexibility, better data, improved forecasting to accomplish these goals. What do you think is the role of the department in these negotiations between the colorado river basin?
▶ 2:22:01Ms. Macgregor: It sounds like I will be spending a lot of time in wyoming. >> we appreciate it. Would love to have you.
▶ 2:22:08Ms. Macgregor: I think the role of the department is ensuring we have a responsible solution providing for the millions of people who rely upon that water but the solution must be state-based. >> with regard to the grizzly bear, they fully recovered, the yellowstone population has been fully recovered for 20 years. Wyoming is proud of the role in the recovery.
▶ 2:22:33Ms. Macgregor: Population delisted two times under both democrat and republican administration. The only thing presidents biden, obama, trump and bush all agreed on is that the grizzly bear is fully recovered. But we have federal judges who have taken a different approach. The endangered species act was passed to protect animals from extinction. As it makes sense for the federal government to waste taxpayer dollars on a species that is in no danger?
▶ 2:23:02Ms. Macgregor: We are borrowing great talent from the state of wyoming to assist us on a lot of these issues, especially as it relates to the grizzly bear and the science behind that decision. >> Mr. danly, let's talk about nuclear energy. Developing first of its kind technology requires time and resources, especially true for nuclear energy. The department of energy's advanced reactor them instruction program is developed to overcome hurdles.
▶ 2:23:33Ms. Macgregor: The work was done in earnest during the first trump administration and put into law by presto before continuing this good work and getting projects over the finished line. If confirmed will you ensure the department of energy remains committed to this?
▶ 2:23:47Mr. Danly: Both the president and secretary expressed enthusiasm for next gen reactors. They will be part of any solution to making -- meeting power demands. I look forward to working with you on that.
▶ 2:24:03Mr. Danly: >> lester congress banned imports of russian uranium into the united states intended to revive our nuclear supply chain to supply critical power plants and it must be implement it correctly. The department of energy has the discretion to provide waivers to countries seeking to import uranium. Do you think it should only be used as a last resort?
▶ 2:24:30Mr. Danly: We need to remove our reliance for uranium on other countries. It is very difficult to have affordable, reliable and secure energy if fundamental inputs are in the hands of adversarial or hostile nations. I agree the waivers are designed only for use in extremis, when you have to have the fuel.
▶ 2:24:57Mr. Danly: >> we see sales of nuclear material coming from china --
▶ 2:25:01Mr. Danly: Which are coming from russia. >> yes, glad you know that. The first trump administration recognized that is a national security risk. It can be recommending improvements. Congress passed an act to rebuild our nuclear supply chain in congress repurposed $2.72 billion in funding to support this.
▶ 2:25:33Mr. Danly: If confirmed will you build and secure our nuclear fuel supply chain including end conversion?
▶ 2:25:39Mr. Danly: The entire supply chain from beginning to end for nuclear power has to be redundant within the U.S. the department of energy would not be fully discouraging functions if it did not -- discharging its functions if it did not do that. >> I will ask three questions. Will you be available to appear before the committee and other congressional committees to respond to issues of concern to congress?
▶ 2:26:06Mr. Danly: I will.
▶ 2:26:08Ms. Macgregor: I will. >> are you a bear of any personal interest which could constitute a conflict or create the appearance should you be confirmed and assumed the office to which you have been nominated by the president?
▶ 2:26:19Mr. Danly: I'm aware of no conflicts.
▶ 2:26:22Ms. Macgregor: Sir, aside from the ones I discussed and will divest, no, no conflicts. >> do you have any assets held in blind trusts?
▶ 2:26:31Mr. Danly: No.
▶ 2:26:32Ms. Macgregor: No. >> thank you for your testimony. We had a very good turnout for the questioning today. Questions for the record of the hearings are due by 6:00 this evening. The hearing is adjourned. Thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]