▶ 0:15:13Chair Wicker: Good morning. The committee will come to order. Today, we welcome general christopher cavoli, commander of U.S. european command, and general michael langley, the commander of U.S. africa command. We thank them both for being with us today.
▶ 0:15:34Chair Wicker: First of all, we meet today in the wake of the difficult news that -- that we have been learning more about over the last few days. We have been saddened by the death of four american service members, and we now know the names. They passed away in a tragic training accident in lithuania.
▶ 0:16:01Chair Wicker: So we recognize them, and send our best to their families and friends. But this morning, we talk about two very important areas of responsibility. The european continent is now entering its third year of war as russia continues its brutal assault against ukraine.
▶ 0:16:28Chair Wicker: There is no question who started this war. Despite the physical and psychological exhaustion and material constraints from the conflict, the ukrainian military and people have heroically and successfully continued to resist russian efforts to subjugate them.
▶ 0:16:52Chair Wicker: The war serves as a brutal reminder that vladimir putin has chosen to become an enemy of the west and to throw away russia's future. The department of defense is right to label china as our pacing threat. Nonetheless, russia and its thousands of nuclear weapons continue to pose an existential danger to the united states and to our allies.
▶ 0:17:16Chair Wicker: Thus goes military aggression stirs uncertainty and threatens vital U.S. interests every day, as europe remains by far our largest trading partner and source of investment in the united states. The war in ukraine has exposed the russian army's weakness. It also has shown that russia can adapt to changing circumstances and can endure heavy costs.
▶ 0:17:42Chair Wicker: The russian industrial base, aided by china, north korea, and iran, has demonstrated its ability to sustain prudence army. Russia would likely use any pause in fighting to reconstitute its military. I say all this to make a simple point. We cannot wish away the russian threat. Despite russia's aggression, there are some who believe now is the time to reduce drastically our military footprint in europe.
▶ 0:18:12Chair Wicker: This is a viewpoint with which I disagree. I'm troubled that this deeply misguided and dangerous view is held by some mid-level bureaucrats within the defense department. They have been working to pursue a U.S. retreat from europe, and they have often been doing so without coordinating with the secretary of the national -- or the national security council. As I said, russia has mobilized for permanent war.
▶ 0:18:41Chair Wicker: Right now, we have a unique opportunity in europe. President trump's leadership and the russian threat have jolted europe awake. Many nations have begun rebuilding their militaries. Our allies -- pullen, the baltic states, and romania -- are all spending much more than we are. Much more than we are. The united kingdom and france are awakening.
▶ 0:19:09Chair Wicker: Even germany shows signs of stirring. Nato should be led by the united states. But europe should shoulder most of the military burden. Can achieve that by combining the right incentives with low cost assistance from the united states. Including drastically overhauled foreign military sales system.
▶ 0:19:34Chair Wicker: To build that, we must maintain our current posture, which will serve as a bridge to the planned buildup of combat power by our european nato allies. After three years of war, we probably should make some posture adjustments, including moving forces east. But we must maintain a strong military posture in europe overall.
▶ 0:19:59Chair Wicker: Failing to do so risks tempting russian adventurism before our european allies have been able to ramp up their forces fully, and their capabilities. The chinese communist party views its competition against the united states as a global project. To china, the continents of europe, asia, south america, and africa are all critical in xi jinping's unprecedented global military expansion.
▶ 0:20:28Chair Wicker: In particular, beijing has been active on the african continent. In djibouti, china's naval -- naval base has grown substantially. It is capable of hosting naval missiles and serving as an intelligence outpost against american and allied forces in the entire region.
▶ 0:20:48Chair Wicker: China is also actively pursuing a naval base in africa's western coast which would provide an enduring foothold along the atlantic ocean. According to general langley, this would change the whole calculus of the geostrategic campaign plans of protecting the american homeland. Unquote.
▶ 0:21:12Chair Wicker: Russia also has designs on the african continent . It's destabilizing strategy is to trade security assistance for access to africa's abundant natural resources. This would help fund vladimir putin's malign activities around the world.
▶ 0:21:34Chair Wicker: At the center of pruden's africa strategy is libya, which serves as russia's key logistical node, and enables its activities across the continent. I look forward to general langley's assessment of africa's importance to vladimir putin's to teaching objectives, as well as his description of what is being done to counter russian efforts, particularly in libya.
▶ 0:22:00Chair Wicker: We cannot ignore the enduring threat posed by isis and al qaeda in africa. Without sustained pressure, these vicious terrorists will reconstitute and continue to threaten america. President trump was absolutely right to approve strikes against isis leadership targets in somalia in recent weeks. Our adversaries view their fight against america as a global fight. We see their efforts playing out across europe and africa in particular.
▶ 0:22:31Chair Wicker: Now is not the time for an american withdrawal from these theaters. We cannot allow the chinese communist party and its partners in moscow, tehran, and pyongyang to overcome us strategically, or to erode the ability to protect american interests around the world. So we have a lot of important topics to talk about today.
▶ 0:22:55Chair Wicker: I look forward to hearing our witnesses address these and many other concerns during this hearing, along with my friend, the ranking member, whom I recognize right now.
▶ 0:23:06Sen. Reed: Thank you, Mr. chairman, and let me begin by adding my condolences to the families of those in lithuania. General cavoli, general langley, welcome. Thank you both for appearing today. I would also like to take a moment to recognize that this will be the final hearing before the committee for each of you before your retirements. Yes. Well, we could change that.
▶ 0:23:35Sen. Reed: For four decades, you have time after time stepped up to lead american service members, including in combat, and through historically different challenges. You have made the united states safer. You have made our forces in europe and africa stronger. We thank you for your distinguished service to our nation. Congratulations to you and your family -- and your families on your pending retirements.
▶ 0:24:02Sen. Reed: For more than three years, eucom has supported ukraine in its w of survival against russia. You come -- eucom has sent an unmistakable message to america's adversaries around the world.
▶ 0:24:23Sen. Reed: However, in recent months, the position of the united states -- the trump administration has repeatedly shown disrespect and contempt for nato and our european allies. The trump administration has begun negotiating with vladimir putin, but has surrendered much of our strongest leverage for nothing in return. As the administration seeks to negotiate an end to the war, I will point out that russia is not in a strong position.
▶ 0:24:52Sen. Reed: Russia has more than to hunt a thousand soldiers killed and hundreds of billions of dollars of military equipment and weapons destroyed. Russia has even turned to north korea reinforcements. In addition, russia's closest ally in the war, iran, is weaker than it has been in decades, due to recent israeli and U.S. actions. In contrast, the ukrainian military continues to hold its ground and to display impressive innovation on the battlefield.
▶ 0:25:23Sen. Reed: And the ukrainian people remain resolute in the face of daily russian brutality. I would argue that there is never a time to appease putin, but it is certainly not now. The russians do not seem interested in action negotiating or ending this war, and the ukrainians should not be forced to make a deal that disadvantages them. General, you have testified in the past that russia is a chronic and growing threat to U.S. interests.
▶ 0:25:55Sen. Reed: I would appreciate your assessment of the war in ukraine, and your views on future U.S. military activity and investments needed in the eucom area to uphold our steadfast commitment to collective defense. In africa, our adversaries are focused on building trade relationships while seizing influence from us.
▶ 0:26:18Sen. Reed: China's military ambitions on the continent are no secret, from their growing presence in djibouti to the more than 100 seaports that have been constructed, financed, or operated by chinese state-owned enterprises, and could be used as dual use for future military contingencies.
▶ 0:26:38Sen. Reed: Russia has expanded its military engagement also, including by restructuring the wegner group's operations under an umbrella organization called africa core. A historic irony of great proportions. They want to expand the reach of the russian paramilitary enterprise across the entire continent.
▶ 0:27:02Sen. Reed: Russia is also investing heavily in campaigns across the continent to spread anti-western movements, undermine democracy, and promote russia-backed authoritarian leaders, especially in west africa. It would seem that america must recognize to neglect africa is to invite long-term strategic peril. Given these challenges, africom must secure U.S.
▶ 0:27:31Sen. Reed: Security interest in the region. To do so, it is important that your command receive the resources it needs to maintain engagement and increase situational awareness across the continent. I would appreciate your thoughts on the wide-ranging set of challenges and what you need to best address these challenges. As we know, economic and political stability is essential for any partner nation anywhere in the world.
▶ 0:28:01Sen. Reed: For decades, we have relied upon our state department diplomats in the U.S. agency for international development, or usaid, to develop deep, lasting relationships that can outlast china and russia's economic coercion. Indeed, until recently, africom had a senior usaid officer in the command who served as a senior development advisor and reported directly to the commander.
▶ 0:28:30Sen. Reed: I am deeply concerned that our soft power, leadership in europe and africa, has been badly crippled over the last several months. General cavoli, general langley, I would like to hear your perspectives on the critical importance of diplomacy and develop an of tools to achieve our national security objectives, and how our competitors have sought to capitalize on the withdrawal of usaid from your regions.
▶ 0:28:56Sen. Reed: Finally, I would highlight recent press reports that suggest president trump may soon remake the entire U.S. combatant command structure, including dismantling africom, and merging it under eucom. This would be a mistake and I believe a horrible decision. Gentlemen, please provide your assessment if we reduce our engagements in europe and africa, and the opportunity that would provide for competitors like russia and china.
▶ 0:29:26Sen. Reed: Thank you again for your service, for your leadership, for your sacrifice. Thank your families also.
▶ 0:29:32Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator reed. Which of you wants to go first?
▶ 0:29:45Gen. Cavoli: General langley has volunteered me. [laughter]
▶ 0:29:49Chair Wicker: You are recognized.
▶ 0:29:51Gen. Cavoli: This to wish members, it is an honor to be here today to represent the men and women of the U.S. european command. And it is a privilege to be sitting beside my friend, general michael langley. Chairman, thank you. Ranking member read, thank you for your condolences on the part of our soldiers who were tragically lost. They have all been recovered.
▶ 0:30:14Gen. Cavoli: I would like to take a moment to salute the american leadership there, all of whom have done a fantastic job. I would also like publicly to thank our lithuanian and polish allies, who left no stone unturned to help us recover those soldiers, and who bent over backwards to give us every single thing we needed. The minister of lithuania was on site every single day to make sure that her country was giving us what they could.
▶ 0:30:43Gen. Cavoli: If we did a repatriation ceremony today to get the soldiers out -- the streets were lined with lithuanian citizens expressing goodwill and alliance with us. And I would commend that video clip to any member of this committee. I thank them. For I begin, let me thank the committee for all your support to our servicemembers and our mission over the years I have served here. We continue to face a very historic time in the european theater.
▶ 0:31:11Gen. Cavoli: Russia's war in ukraine, now in its fourth year, has revealed russia to be a chronic threat. We see them in the future to be a growing threat, one willing to use military force to achieve its geopolitical goals and is today actively waging a campaign of destabilization across europe and beyond. Further exacerbating this threat from russia are the deepening partnerships among our adversaries -- iran, the communist chinese party, the dprk, and russia itself.
▶ 0:31:40Gen. Cavoli: These are increasingly posing a global risk. But U.S. eucom and the nato alliance have risen to the challenge. Nato deterrence has held. War has not spilled into nato territory. With support from a broad coalition, U.S. european command led the charge in helping ukraine. We establish security assistance group ukraine, and 438 months of this war, sent critical munitions, arms, and equipment from the U.S. and our allies to the ukrainians.
▶ 0:32:10Gen. Cavoli: These efforts have been indispensable in enabling ukrainian armed forces, and have empowered them to mount a courageous defense. And now nato has taken up this task as well, establishing an organization to take over much of the mission. The threat of war has also led the nato alliance to embark on a historic campaign to fundamentally overhaul and modernize its military capabilities.
▶ 0:32:38Gen. Cavoli: After years of underinvestment, too many years, our allies are finally optimizing the alliance for high-end were fighting. Within nato, we now have the plans, the command and control, and increasingly the forces, and we have the focus to meet that mission. While there is still much to do, our allies are investing at a rate we have not seen since the end of the cold war, a 40% increase in spending since february of 2022. Throughout this intense and challenging transformation, the presence of U.S.
▶ 0:33:07Gen. Cavoli: Eucom forces has been essential to the alliance's modernization efforts. We have converged with nato command structures. We have increased combined training exercises. And we have been accelerating european modernization. Through U.S. leadership, we are laying the groundwork for european leadership, and thus four more years of peace and prosperity for the united states of america. It is a long road ahead and sustained vigilance and pressure will be required to get there.
▶ 0:33:37Gen. Cavoli: This is to protect vital U.S. interests. Our strengthened allies will increase our strength. Our deep relationships give us the access, the basing, and the intelligence necessary to do this. The first line of defense of our homeland begins in eucom, where our naval forces prevent russian submarines from breaking out into the atlantic. U.S. ballistic missile defense of israel starts with eucom ships positioned in the eastern mediterranean.
▶ 0:34:03Gen. Cavoli: And it is our job, with americans from the labonte -- we are america's force forward in the world. As the chairman and the ranking member noted, this is my last day of testimony to you as I am closing 38 years in the service this summer. It has been the owner of a lifetime to serve with her brilliant servicemembers during these historic times.
▶ 0:34:27Gen. Cavoli: I continue to be inspired by their commitment to our nation's defense, and I think the congress for your unwavering support to our servicemen and women, to their well-being, and to their vital mission. America is the greatest country in the world, and it is in large part because of our armed forces, which are the finest in the world. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:47Chair Wicker: Thank you very much, general. General langley?
▶ 0:34:51Gen. Langley: Chairman wicker, ranking member rea ranking member reed, distinct committee members, it is an honor to appear representing the outstanding servicemembers, civilians, and families of the united states africa command.
▶ 0:35:08Gen. Langley: As I get closer to the end of my tenure of command, I remain in all of the capabilities of the men and women willing to serve our nation -- the soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen, guardians, and civilians, and I am honored and proud to serve with them. America remains in good hands.
▶ 0:35:37Gen. Langley: I am proud to testify with my good friend, general chris cavoli, the supreme allied commander in europe and the commander of the united states european command. I would like to extend my gratitude for his steadfast cooperation. As you know, eucom and africom share service components. Every day, our teams are coordinating to solve some of our nation's toughest security issues.
▶ 0:36:05Gen. Langley: Also joining me today is a key member of the africom team, sergeant major michael boyd, united states marine corps. His 32 years of experience provide me with the critical insight needed to understand the operating environment. He shows our partners what true noncommissioned officer leadership looks like. I am lucky to serve with him.
▶ 0:36:33Gen. Langley: Everything we do has one overarching goal in mind -- achieving peace through strength. This requires three things -- a clear understanding of national security threats, a robust and dependable network of like-minded allies and partners. And appropriate resourcing to match military requirements.
▶ 0:37:02Gen. Langley: And as I have said in previous testimony, africa remains a nexus from which the united states cannot shift its gaze. It is home to terrorists who take advantage of conditions in africa to grow and export their ideology. Isis controls their global network from somalia.
▶ 0:37:26Gen. Langley: It is where the chinese communist party actively works to change the international rules-based order as a steppingstone to become the global hegemon. And it is where the russian federation seizes opportunities created by chaos and instability.
▶ 0:37:43Gen. Langley: To protect our homeland and united states interests, we must deter these nations, malign actors, from their goals on the african continent. Many of our security and economic interests overlap with those of our african and european partners. Successful outcomes enabled by burden sharing are beneficial for all.
▶ 0:38:08Gen. Langley: And as a posture to limit theater. We establish strength and work towards peace by enhancing the security capabilities of our african partners through a robust system of alliances -- exercises, training events, security cooperation, and foreign military sales programs are the back bone of our military activities on the continent.
▶ 0:38:38Gen. Langley: Do these activities, or forces lead by example with a warrior if those, and stand by our partners and enhance trust in the united states military. The united states africa command seeks to match these capabilities with the current and emerging threats to ensure the security of our forces while advancing american interests.
▶ 0:39:03Gen. Langley: Intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance aircraft, pressure response forces, unmanned arrow system technology, and integrated air missile defense platforms are critical to accomplish our mission. Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome your advocacy in us during -- in assuring the necessary tools are in africom's hands. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here today, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:39:30Chair Wicker: Thank you both for your excellent testimony. We are going to try to stay strictly to the five minute rule in our question and answer. I probably -- senator reed, I'm going to take a second round myself. It's stick to the five minutes. General cavoli, how long have you been watching russia closely?
▶ 0:39:54Gen. Cavoli: Chairman, I began my russia specialty in 1995, when I spent a year at the defense language institute, learning to speak russian. I worked in jobs associated with it ever since.
▶ 0:40:13Chair Wicker: You are not only conversational, but fluent in russian. Is that correct?
▶ 0:40:18Gen. Cavoli: I maintain that ranking.
▶ 0:40:22Chair Wicker: Give us your assessment first of all of what we have learned, what our military has learned during this two and a half years of conflict in ukraine. What have we learned about russia's military? Where are they now?
▶ 0:40:46Gen. Cavoli: Chairman, we have learned a lot. Early on -- all of the services in the joint force established a variety of cells and organizations deliberately to study the lessons of the conflict -- everything from publications about it to seminars on it at a classified level. And we have learned a lot.
▶ 0:41:11Gen. Cavoli: Some of the things that we have gained as a military are -- well, they are technical. They are procedural. And they are sort of large-scale operations focused. So technically, for example, we have learned a lot about russian measures and countermeasures, and how to counter countermeasures. A lot of technical stuff. We have seen a lot of growth in both the russian capability and ukrainian capability in electro magnetic warfare. And we have learned from that.
▶ 0:41:42Gen. Cavoli: We have modified many of our procedures. I think you are familiar with the transformation in contact initiative. That is really based on lessons learned from ukraine. As a short example, our use of drones has changed deeply across the joint force. Before this conflict, in the U.S. army, for example, we had very few but large drones associated with large units.
▶ 0:42:08Gen. Cavoli: Now, we are proliferating smaller drones to smaller units, and having a larger number of drones in lower and lower hands. A fundamental change in the way we are doing business. There are many other technical and tactical lessons. At a metalevel, some of theig lessons we have learned are about scale. Scale in this conflict is awe-inspiring. Thousands of tanks destroyed on both sides.
▶ 0:42:33Gen. Cavoli: The russians have lost more than 4000 tanks, which is the inventory, almost, of the united states tank force. So the need for replacement, for resilience -- all these are lessons we are learning and I believe the services or programming in as the years go forward. So we have learned a lot.
▶ 0:42:49Chair Wicker: Before you continue, in february of 2022, we would not have dreamed of such a loss from russia of tanks, would we?
▶ 0:43:00Gen. Cavoli: We would not have. I did not anticipate the work to go this long, and I did not anticipate ukraine to be able to destroy so much of russia's war fighting capability.
▶ 0:43:11Chair Wicker: I hope I did not break your train of thought. Continue.
▶ 0:43:15Gen. Cavoli: As we watch the russians, we see that their level of skill in some technical areas is very high and is evolving during the course of the war. But it is mainly isolated in specific pockets. It does not appear to be generalizable across the force. Overall, the quality of their force, especially their ground force, as been decreasing throughout the conflict. On the ukrainian side, we see sort of the opposite. We see a military that started from an almost cold start.
▶ 0:43:45Gen. Cavoli: We had been helping them before the war, but not at the scale. They evolved very quickly. We have learned a lot about institutional adaptation from watching both sides as well.
▶ 0:43:59Chair Wicker: If we or our nato allies had to face rush ourselves in a conflict, because of what we have learned, would we be exponentially better off today because of the lessons we have learned in the last two and a half years?
▶ 0:44:15Gen. Cavoli: Oh yes, chairman.
▶ 0:44:17Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Say a word or two and half a minute about the russian economy.
▶ 0:44:26Gen. Cavoli: So, the russian economy has been both bolstered and distorted by this war. Specifically, the russian government has had to turbocharge their defense sector, and in so doing, they have created a very strong inflationary pressure throughout the economy, but especially in the civil sector. They responded to that with high interest rates to hold inflation down.
▶ 0:44:56Gen. Cavoli: The central banker has the overnight prime rate over 21% right now. That is choking off the viability of the civil economy, so one has a huge, oversized defense sector but an anemic civil sector. That defense sector is not a productive economy for the nation. It is productive for the fighting of the war, but beyond that, it has swamped things.
▶ 0:45:27Gen. Cavoli: It appears it will be very difficult to unwind such an imbalance, and we will need to consider that as we go forward.
▶ 0:45:34Chair Wicker: Thank you, sir. We will continue this conversation.
▶ 0:45:39Sen. Reed: General langley, the presidents of the united states on the african continent is not significantly military. We don't have many troops there at all. But we do have until recently a state department and usaid presence. Can you indicate to us how valuable that presence has been to you?
▶ 0:46:09Gen. Langley: Senator reed, heretofore, we had a whole of government approach in some of the challenges in the african continent. We use that in past years. Now, given that usaid -- a number of capabilities have moved over to the state department. We continue to look at ways to be able to leverage that and U.S.
▶ 0:46:37Gen. Langley: Government pressure, especially on competitors, in achieving our strategic goals.
▶ 0:46:43Sen. Reed: Thank you. Shouldn't -- general cavoli, can you give us a brief assessment of the battlefield? We hear about ukraine's challenges, but as I understand it, they are still holding significant territory. They are taking the fight to the russians and innovating.
▶ 0:47:02Gen. Cavoli: All of the above is true. If we take a moment and go down the front line of troops -- if we start in the northern part of the battlefield, the battlefield active area, that is the place were ukraine last summer pushed an advance in to russia in an area called kursk.
▶ 0:47:26Gen. Cavoli: This is where the russians introduced north korean troops to help push the ukrainians back out. They set an original goal of the end of september to have the ukrainians out of kursk. Ukrainians today are still in kursk. There is a sizable force owning a diminished but sizable chunk of ground inside russia in crisco blast -- kursk oblast.
▶ 0:47:55Gen. Cavoli: South of there, the russians weeks ago pushed a smaller counteroffensive back into russia. We still have a back and forth going in that area. If we come down inside of ukraine to some of the big battlefields, there is the city -- the ukrainians and the russians have been fighting over this city for about eight months now.
▶ 0:48:20Gen. Cavoli: In recent weeks, the russian offensives have sort of petered out. They have been decreasing in scale, moving from company size to platoon size. Now, basically small groups of infantrymen trying to rush forward under artillery fire. They have failed to gain ground in the last couple of weeks. In fact, ukrainians have taken a little bit of ground back.
▶ 0:48:44Gen. Cavoli: If we come farther south, we get to donetsk province, where the russians continue to try to take it. They are stalled out on their axes, trying to encircle it. They got pretty close, but the ukrainians have held the russians back. That is on the ground. The russians seem to be suffering from a paucity of armored vehicles and lack of manpower.
▶ 0:49:10Gen. Cavoli: Ukrainians, on their side, have assumed very strong defensive positions while dug in, and appear to have solved some of their manpower problems that were so acute last autumn. They have increased the pool of people available for mobilization. They have increased the pool of people available for volunteering recruitment. They have done a good job squeezing people. Both sides are aligned on a long-range attack.
▶ 0:49:38Gen. Cavoli: The russians largely with cruise missiles. The ukrainians are relying mainly on one-way attack drones as well as some cruise missile systems, one that we can talk about in closed session. I hope that helps.
▶ 0:49:55Sen. Reed: It does, sir. If the administration withholds military help -- spare parts and particularly intelligence advice, what would be the effect on the ukrainian forces?
▶ 0:50:12Gen. Cavoli: First of all, it would have a rapid and deleterious effect on their ability to fight. The ukrainians depend on us principally, uniquely, I should say, for their high-end antiaircraft systems. So the things that shoot down the ballistic missiles and the long-range attack missiles that the russians so at them almost daily, that is mainly supplied by the united states. That would have an obvious effect.
▶ 0:50:42Gen. Cavoli: If the ukrainians were not able to receive intelligence from us, it would struggle to target, especially in depth, operational level targets such as command posts, logistics areas, and things like that, which require a specific -- you have to have very good intelligence to do that, and they would struggle to do that. The ukrainians have developed alternative sources. Many of our allies have stepped up their ability to produce things for the ukrainians.
▶ 0:51:15Gen. Cavoli: Czechia this month is delivering more than 70,000 rounds. There are some real advances. There is diversification of their supply source. But undoubtedly, the ukrainians are very dependent on our assistance.
▶ 0:51:31Chair Wicker: Senator fischer?
▶ 0:51:34Sen. Fischer: Generals, thank you both for your many years of service to this country. General cavoli, you served us both the commander of the U.S. european command and also as the supreme allied commander of europe.
▶ 0:51:51Sen. Fischer: That means you are responsible for the overall command of nato military operations and forces, including the united states nuclear forces that are deploying to those nato countries. Nato is a nuclear alliance. Our deterrence strategy has worked for over 75 years. Having an american serve as supreme allied commander of europe has been a key part of that strategy.
▶ 0:52:22Sen. Fischer: General, can you, at this level of classification, walk us through how command and control of U.S. nuclear forces in europe works today, including your role?
▶ 0:52:37Gen. Cavoli: Absolutely, senator. So to keep it at a very open level, the united states has always offered a certain amount of nuclear force to nato, to be employed here.
▶ 0:52:54Gen. Cavoli: We have some nuclear weapons that, in a conflict, upon the agreement of the united states and the rest of the nations, would be delivered by a variety of nations who are involved in this program, all of them nato nations. That all happens under the command and control. If that were not an american officer, we would have to find some other way to do that that would not be as integrated as it is now. So, yeah.
▶ 0:53:25Gen. Cavoli: Basically, as the american commander, I have those weapons in my possession, and at the time of need, as instructed, I would pass them to myself as the supreme allied commander to deploy in the service of 32 nations.
▶ 0:53:43Sen. Fischer: It sounds as though the weight command works right now, we don't have a middleman involved in this. It would be you as an american commander, in consultation with the president, the commander-in-chief, who could, I believe, more easily and also with more knowledge, make decisions affecting the use of our nuclear weapons.
▶ 0:54:13Sen. Fischer: Is that -- would you say that is correct?
▶ 0:54:15Gen. Cavoli: That is correct because I am able to rehearse these procedures both in the american system -- I have worked very closely with general cotton, for instance. We can rehearsals procedures on a U.S. basis. We rehearse the delivery procedures on a nato basis. And I and key american elements of my staff at supreme allied headquarters europe -- we are able to be the link in that chain that makes it seamless.
▶ 0:54:46Sen. Fischer: Thank you. There has always been a critical maritime chokepoint. It has recently grown in its strategic importance to nato in light of the increase we are seeing with submarine -- russian submarine patrols in the atlantic. What do you see, general, as the largest challenges with respect to that gap?
▶ 0:55:13Gen. Cavoli: The biggest challenge, at an unclassified level -- the quantity of stuff we have. The quantity of equipment and forces we have available to monitor the underwater activity there, and to counter it. It is important to understand that the U.S. has a unique role here.
▶ 0:55:40Gen. Cavoli: We have capabilities that are -- that our allies do not have. They have capabilities in numbers we need to augment hours. We work very closely together. But the U.S. component of those efforts is fundamental.
▶ 0:56:01Sen. Fischer: Thank you. General langley, as we are considering an africa under your command, we have seen, I believe, and increase with the chinese presence on the continent. Economic developments, military activities, investments on the continent. Do you see -- or what would you see as the greatest concern to U.S.
▶ 0:56:25Sen. Fischer: Security, and also to regional stability in the area, with regard to the actions that we are observing with the chinese?
▶ 0:56:37Gen. Langley: I see three lines of operations by the ccp. One is geo strategic, the basing. As the chairman talked about in his assessment, djibouti is a start. There are other initiatives across the continent of africa.
▶ 0:57:03Gen. Langley: Then there is the geopolitical line of effort in trying to dislodge the overall leadership in their quest to be the regional hegemon, as we start to look at their activities in the u.n., and trying to get geopolitical advantage over the west. And then also, geo economic. The treasure our critical minerals. They need those critical minerals not only for the industrial base, but also for their greater industrial base.
▶ 0:57:35Gen. Langley: Those efforts are what we are watching closely because they want to be a global hegemon.
▶ 0:57:39Chair Wicker: Thank you.
▶ 0:57:44Sen. Shaheen: Thank you to general cavoli and general langley for being here this morning and for your many years of service to the country. I want to follow-up on senator reed senator reed's question about usaid's presence in africa or lack thereof now that this administration has closed down virtually all of the operations in africa. This is the fastest-growing continent in the world. It is a place where we are seeing increasing incursion by the chinese, as you pointed out.
▶ 0:58:17Sen. Shaheen: So as we have withdrawn our presence from countries in africa, are you seeing additional chinese presence come in to take over some of those services and programs that the united states has been providing? For example, in rwanda, we had a program to help with children -- women and children, and the challenges of childbirth.
▶ 0:58:45Sen. Shaheen: My understanding is that now that we have left that program, that the chinese have come into take it over. Are you seeing that in places?
▶ 0:58:53Gen. Langley: Senator, I am seeing that there are a number of programs that we see that the chinese communist party is trying to replicate. But they cannot do what we do. They cannot do what we do them cap far -- in pepfar. We expanded the life of some africans by 20 years. They are trying to replicate that and match what we do.
▶ 0:59:20Gen. Langley: That is what we are seeing as we start to fold in the capabilities of usaid under the state department. China is trying to exploit that.
▶ 0:59:31Sen. Shaheen: Do you agree that it would be a huge loss if we don't continue many of those programs?
▶ 0:59:40Gen. Langley: I won't speak to the policy part of that, but those capabilities are needed for the U.S. to maintain the strategic advantage over the chinese communist party, because we do it best. And the africans do prefer the united states.
▶ 0:59:59Sen. Shaheen: I want to follow on senator fischer's question about the role in nato and in europe, and the importance of that role in terms of nuclear weapon command-and-control. And partly because what we are hearing his rumors from the administration that they are thinking about eliminating that dual hat responsibility.
▶ 1:00:23Sen. Shaheen: I'm not going to ask you to comment on the policy point, what how concerned would you be about the lack of control of nuclear weapons, especially should article five be invoked?
▶ 1:00:38Gen. Cavoli: We would want those under the command of the U.S. officer, ma'am.
▶ 1:00:47Sen. Shaheen: Senator reed and senator wicker both asked a number of questions about ukraine and where the war is now, and you were very forthcoming about that. As we look at potential negotiations on trying to end that war, what is the best leverage that we can have with putin and russia, in terms of positioning ukraine to be able to come to a negotiating table with a position of strength?
▶ 1:01:17Gen. Cavoli: Senator, I would hate to try to insert myself into the negotiating process, which I am not part of.
▶ 1:01:26Sen. Shaheen: I am only asking for your military.
▶ 1:01:29Gen. Cavoli: Continuing to assist ukraine on the battlefield daily is important. Continuing to enlist not just the material assistance but the unity of our allies in this effort to support ukraine I think is also an important function to be done. I will leave it to the administration to determine how to achieve leverage.
▶ 1:01:49Sen. Shaheen: And we talked briefly on the way in about the situation in the western balkans, and particularly in serbia and bosnia-herzegovina. While Mr. doe has left for the time being, can you speak to the ability of the mission there to be able to take over, should there be any outbreak of violence?
▶ 1:02:19Sen. Shaheen: And then also, if you could address kosovo and serbia as well. With her guard to bosnia, --
▶ 1:02:29Gen. Cavoli: With regard to bosnia, we are working through that they by day. As you know, the e.u. Mission, the operational one step above commander of that for the e.u. Is my vice chief of staff. We talk -- his office is about 10 feet from mine. Talk about this every single week.
▶ 1:02:56Gen. Cavoli: We feel comfortable with the level of forces they have available now. I am grateful to france especially for responding quickly with forces. They sent the charles de gaulle and shipped battalions to set -- to show force in the area. I think we are in a good place. I think the e.u. Know the various ways things could spiral up there, and we can handle that. From the U.S.
▶ 1:03:22Gen. Cavoli: Side, I do meet her come in and out, training forces, our forces to train, who have a stabilizing effect. Kosovo -- we remain on the ground. Soldiers on the ground right now, of whom less than 600 are american. That is a place where our italian allies have been carrying a lot of the weight.
▶ 1:03:48Gen. Cavoli: We have had reserve forces deployed there to handle the elevated tensions for about a year now. We are expanding the size of the permanent force in order to relieve those reserves, reserve forces. I believe we will come to an agreement on that very quickly. The key nations involved are italy, turkey, the united kingdom, and hungary, who have been extremely responsible in use of forces.
▶ 1:04:14Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator shaheen. Let me observe I am doing a poor job of enforcing the five minute rule. General langley, that may follow up for a moment. As we dial back usaid in africa, china is not dialing back the belt and road initiative in africa.
▶ 1:04:36Gen. Langley: Chairman, china is responding by trying to replicate what capabilities usaid was very successful with for a number of years. They are trying to replicate that in health diplomacy or any development type programs. They are trying to use that as extension of the belt and road initiative to gain favor by the african countries.
▶ 1:05:02Chair Wicker: Would you say it is not principally altruistic on the part of the chinese communists?
▶ 1:05:12Gen. Langley: Chairman, I would say they have made some missteps especially in zambia with that spill into a river that affects 5 million people.
▶ 1:05:24Chair Wicker: But they do it in their own self-interest, the chinese.
▶ 1:05:28Gen. Langley: Absolutely.
▶ 1:05:29Chair Wicker: Senator cotton, you are now recognized.
▶ 1:05:34Sen. Cotton: Gentlemen, welcome and thank you for your service to the country. No you will be sad not to be called to testify in front of the committee anymore after today. In his first term, president trump withdrew the united states from the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty, finally, after years of russia cheating with impunity. That has allowed our military to develop longer-range missiles.
▶ 1:05:58Sen. Cotton: The army has been developing the long-range hypersonic ground launch missile with a range of up to -- well, it has a long range. We will put it that way. It appears that the army's first multi-domain task force in the pacific is slated to get this weapon first. Do you see a role for the long-range hypersonic weapon in eucom?
▶ 1:06:21Gen. Cavoli: I do, senator cotton. I think it would be very useful. I think coming out of the inf treaty was an important move, and it is one we should capitalize on in all the relevant theaters. The army's multi-domain task force long-range fighters battalion is the real key component. It has got several systems in it, as I think you know.
▶ 1:06:44Gen. Cavoli: And there is a move -- there is a request to place one of those in europe that I can get into enclosed session in detail if you would like, sir.
▶ 1:06:53Sen. Cotton: The trump administration has conducted multiple airstrikes since taking office. What is your current assessment of the threat that al-shabaab poses to our national interest, and specifically to the U.S. homeland?
▶ 1:07:09Gen. Langley: Senator, al-shabaab is a heightened terrorist threat, mainly because they are colluding with the houthis from yemen. We are watching that closely. The secretary of defense has given me expanded authorities. I could talk about those details as far as expanded authorities. We are hitting hard. I have the capability to hit them harder.
▶ 1:07:36Sen. Cotton: Al-shabaab is in the horn of africa on the east coast. There are other terrorists operating throughout africa associated with al qaeda or the islamic state. What is your assessment of threats that all those terrorists on the african continent pose, and specifically posed to the U.S.?
▶ 1:07:56Gen. Langley: Senator, left unchecked, they will have a direct threat on the homeland, whether it is their networks or their ideology. We remember in january 2025 what happened in new orleans. There are some that are still indoctrinated by this false ideology of islam.
▶ 1:08:18Sen. Cotton: General cavoli, coming back to you, outside of your a war -- aor, but with some follow-on effects, the assad tyranny fell last year. That has imperiled russia's access to its naval base in syria. There have been reports that russia is looking to replace that base elsewhere in the mediterranean. Including potentially in libya.
▶ 1:08:45Sen. Cotton: How do you assess the situation in the mediterranean and russia's access to the mediterranean, since the fall of assad?
▶ 1:08:55Gen. Cavoli: Senator, they have suffered a big loss. They have suffered the ability of being able to maintain operations in the eastern mediterranean. They are searching -- I will talk about this if you would like to. They are searching for alternative basing to replace tartarus, which they have mainly lost, on the north shore of africa. They have failed to achieve a long-term agreement for a major base. This will be significant.
▶ 1:09:23Gen. Cavoli: It is significant not only because we have a reduced presence of submarines, russian submarines, in the eastern mediterranean now. It is also surface vessels that find it harder to sustain operations. Finally, it is much more difficult for russia to sustain both overt and covert operations they are doing in africa, without those spaces. And the alliance and U.S.
▶ 1:09:48Gen. Cavoli: Eucom are taking actions to make sure we keep them boxed.
▶ 1:09:55Sen. Cotton: General langley, anything to add?
▶ 1:09:58Gen. Langley: I have watched closely. That is nato's southern flank, from morocco to algeria, and tunisia and libya. I engage with them closely for shared objectives of denying them militarization of the southern flank.
▶ 1:10:20Sen. Cotton: Thank you, gentlemen.
▶ 1:10:22Sen. Hirono: My thanks to both of you for your decades of service. I did want to mention the concerns that our european allies must have, regarding what happened with signal gate. U.S.
▶ 1:10:39Sen. Hirono: Officials, including vice president vance and secretary of defense hegseth -- this is for general cavoli -- used signal to communicate classified yemen strike plans, putting the lives of our service at risk. In addition to sharing classified material on an unsecured network, the vice president and secretary of defense spoke contemptuously about our european allies.
▶ 1:11:05Sen. Hirono: I think both of you very much know how important our allies are, and how important it is for us to continue to strengthen our relationships with our allies. It surely does not help when we have our leaders, in an unconscionable way, being contemptuous of them. General, do you think sharing operation plans on unclassified systems puts our war fighters at risk?
▶ 1:11:31Gen. Cavoli: Ma'am, we have protocols to handle classified information and we adhere to them to the extent that we are capable. When there is a failure, we investigated.
▶ 1:11:43Sen. Hirono: The answer is yes?
▶ 1:11:46Sen. Hirono: Have you heard from our european allies? Have any indicated their concerns about this security breach on our part?
▶ 1:11:55Gen. Cavoli: Not directly. I have not had anybody ask me about that or talk about it.
▶ 1:12:01Sen. Hirono: What do you think they are thinking regarding the security breach? Is it reassuring to them?
▶ 1:12:08Gen. Cavoli: I cannot characterize their thoughts.
▶ 1:12:13Sen. Hirono: So none of them actually said to you, what is going on? That is pretty surprising. Don't we share intel with our european allies?
▶ 1:12:25Gen. Cavoli: Of course, it is one of the most important parts of our alliance and bilateral relationships.
▶ 1:12:32Sen. Hirono: Do you think that the security breach that occurred with signal gate is reassuring to our allies in terms of their willingness to share security information with us?
▶ 1:12:46Gen. Cavoli: It is hard for me to characterize somebody else's thoughts, but I have not had anybody pull back in our intelligence sharing agreements.
▶ 1:12:56Sen. Hirono: I find that surprising, nonetheless, I hope so. There have been recent news reports that the pentagon is considering combining africom and eucom into one command. For both of you, what is your best military advice on the strategic, operational, and resource implications of such a merger? General langley?
▶ 1:13:24Gen. Langley: Senator, I won't speculate on the policy, but I will say this. The relevance of africom and our mission -- back in 2007, we looked at the challenges across the globe. And especially the challenge of terrorism. At that time, the global presence of terrorism was 2%. Today, it is 43%.
▶ 1:13:53Gen. Langley: Even adding to a geostrategic type of perspective of our great power c1 russia and china activities on the african continent is grand.
▶ 1:14:14Sen. Hirono: Would you agree they challenge us, increase in africa, making it more important this combat and command continues?
▶ 1:14:37Gen. Cavoli: The challenges in africa have increased exponentially over the last 10 years. Not just the terrorism during the last 20 years but the increasing activity of russia and china. There are a lot of problems there.
▶ 1:14:56Sen. Hirono: Would you like to share thoughts on another potential change being contemplated by the administration, to give up our role as supreme allied commander of nato?
▶ 1:15:15Gen. Cavoli: That would bring challenges in terms of new your command -- nuclear command-and-control. It would put us in a position where we have large numbers of U.S. troops under non-us command.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Hirono: Could it endanger our national security, that is what you are saying.
▶ 1:15:41Chair Wicker: Senator rounds.
▶ 1:15:45Sen. Rounds: Thank you for your service, and your families. We sometimes forget about the sacrifice they make wing you are away. We appreciate all of that and what you continue to do for this country. Our missile defense systems protect the homeland and deployed forces overseas in europe and the middle east.
▶ 1:16:16Sen. Rounds: Does eucomm make use of the full spectrum to operate? This is something I have asked every four star uniformed officer before us because there has been the attempt recently to take away the exclusive use by the dod of that part of the spectrum and to sell it for
▶ 1:16:46Sen. Rounds: Commercial purposes. Some of the best physics in the world per radar -- can you share what eucomm does?
▶ 1:16:58Gen. Cavoli: We do use it. Principally in our air and missile defense systems which are part of the system that protects the U.S. homeland from ballistic missile attacks. I could go into that in classified session. That would have to be worked out, if we lost access to that band.
▶ 1:17:27Sen. Rounds: Are you familiar with some of the physics involved in why we picked that particular part of radar?
▶ 1:17:35Gen. Cavoli: A little bit.
▶ 1:17:37Sen. Rounds: There is a reason why that part of the spectrum is being so closely protected by dod?
▶ 1:17:47Gen. Cavoli: There is.
▶ 1:17:49Sen. Rounds: Describe how the ukrainian armed forces as well as their industrial defense base has evolved over time.
▶ 1:18:04Gen. Cavoli: Wow. 2014, I was a one star commanding throughout germany and europe, 2015, I was given the task of helping to set up a training center in western ukraine, for the ukrainians, as a response to the annexation of crimea in '14.
▶ 1:18:32Gen. Cavoli: At the time they were a hand to mouth army in a tight fight in the eastern area and had suffered 38 years of post-soviet neglect. They were in tough shape. 2022, they managed, while maintaining a fight in the east, to convert themselves into the force that was able to stop russia.
▶ 1:19:02Gen. Cavoli: This came with a number of important decisions from the U.S., specifically increasing aid and the initiation of legal aid, the donation of javelins in 2016. They went from being minutemen with javelins stopping a russian invasion to being an organized force increasingly able to generate force in a reliable and predictable fashion.
▶ 1:19:33Gen. Cavoli: Very difficult to do on the fly. It has taken a couple years. They've developed a defense industry producing many of their own munitions now. They are world leaders in one attack drone technology.
▶ 1:19:48Sen. Rounds: You've watched what russia has done as well. How russia would react to a conflict between the U.S. and china?
▶ 1:19:58Gen. Cavoli: Whatever the U.S. does in the world, russia will find a way or look for a way to turn the situation to its advantage and sees the opportunity. I would expect russia to try and take advantage, either in the info domain or physical.
▶ 1:20:22Sen. Rounds: If we found ourselves in a theater conflict in the pacific region, highly strong possibility we would find ourselves in the european theater as well?
▶ 1:20:36Gen. Cavoli: And other theaters.
▶ 1:20:39Sen. Rounds: More questions in the record. Thank you.
▶ 1:20:43Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator king.
▶ 1:20:48Sen. King: I would like to move we extend the terms of these generals for another four years.
▶ 1:20:59Chair Wicker: Without objection.
▶ 1:21:01Sen. King: Sorry fellas. The bad news is you get to tell your families. In the hour we have been sitting here, investors in the U.S. stock market have lost $2.5 trillion.
▶ 1:21:23Sen. King: Appears the russians and president pruden are engaged in a waiting game, a grinding down, the conflict in ukraine. Are the ukrainians destined to lose?
▶ 1:21:40Gen. Cavoli: No. Important question. Nothing inevitable in war. Ukrainians are in strong defensive positions now, improving weekly their ability to generate force and and room force -- reinforce those positions. It's hard to envision a major ukrainian offensive that clears everything.
▶ 1:22:07Gen. Cavoli: Likewise it is hard to envision ukraine collapsing and losing the conflict. I do not think there is inevitability to ukrainian loss.
▶ 1:22:17Sen. King: Describe the ukrainians evolution of their force over the course of the conflict. My sense is they have gone from minutemen with a rifle to a serious modern military.
▶ 1:22:38Gen. Cavoli: Absolutely. In the beginning, they had a certain number of organized brigades in the east. What really kicked in were volunteers who spontaneously organized under officer leadership, north of kyiv was key in stopping that advance and then pushing the russians out.
▶ 1:23:09Gen. Cavoli: They evolved from that, consolidated that into soviet style brigades, which they were used to, with soviet equipment, then coming through late '22 and '23, we could see that equipment and their artillery ammunition would be exhausted.
▶ 1:23:31Gen. Cavoli: We had to help them convert to a largely western equipped and almost exclusively western artillery equipped force, which is complicated.
▶ 1:23:42Sen. King: Effective transition.
▶ 1:23:44Gen. Cavoli: Amazing to do that under fire. It is fantastic.
▶ 1:23:49Sen. King: Russian and chinese activities in the arctic. Strikes me this is a looming threat area we should be addressing. The reason it is becoming important is the melting of the arctic ice, 70% has disappeared in 40 years. Talk about the strategic importance of the arctic.
▶ 1:24:18Gen. Cavoli: From U.S. perspective, the shortest distance from russia to airfields in the U.S. is over the polar cap.
▶ 1:24:29Sen. King: They are building up those airfields?
▶ 1:24:32Gen. Cavoli: They are. They were before the war at a fast-paced. It has slowed during the war but they are still opening airfields and repairing existing. The northern fleet comes up, sales down through the g.I. U.k. Gap and tries to break into the atlantic from which they could hold key U.S. targets at risk with sub launched cruise missiles and other weapons.
▶ 1:25:03Sen. King: We should be paying attention to the arctic as a new domain of potential conflict?
▶ 1:25:08Gen. Cavoli: We are. U.S. northern command has the primary U.S. responsibility. Strategic command has activities there. Eucomm has activities up there. Nato, almost all the nations in the arctic council are nato. The only one that is not his russia.
▶ 1:25:35Gen. Cavoli: We have been sponsoring tabletop exercises to understand the details of command and control and coordination of operations.
▶ 1:25:43Sen. King: I'm concerned about the rise of isis. That's a serious issue we need to attend to. We cannot forget about terrorism?
▶ 1:25:59Gen. Langley: Correct. The rise of isis, more focused on the isis element in somalia. There are networks in the sahel. We are still engaged in coastal west africa.
▶ 1:26:21Chair Wicker: Thank you for the yes or no question. Senator ernst.
▶ 1:26:30Sen. Ernst: My condolences to the families of the four fallen, as they begin their transfer process, our hearts are with them, their family. Thank you for your respects to those family members. Let's start and talk about leadership.
▶ 1:26:59Sen. Ernst: It has been brought up many times. The situation I believe is being contemplated. You believe it is important to have american leadership in those positions?
▶ 1:27:19Gen. Cavoli: That would be a policy decision. I laid out the advantages and disadvantages from a military perspective.
▶ 1:27:28Sen. Ernst: I believe it is important. I will paraphrase. The army definition of a leader is someone who inspires others to follow toward a common goal for the good of the unit/organization. This is me speaking.
▶ 1:27:47Sen. Ernst: I think it is important america remains engaged on the world stage and exhibit that type of leadership in order to secure our national defense?
▶ 1:27:59Gen. Cavoli: I do agree. I see it every day, our allies crave our leadership and they are stronger with it and stronger for us.
▶ 1:28:12Sen. Ernst: American soldier is a hero standing still. General patton gave us that. You mentioned the convening ability of U.S. military.
▶ 1:28:31Gen. Langley: As the ccp and russian federation are trying to encroach upon what we do as far as influence and cooperation with african partners, they pale in comparison. As evidenced by what we do our conferences or the exercises we have.
▶ 1:29:00Gen. Langley: A number of countries are always wanting to be part of it. Same thing for our maritime members, because of the illicit activities china is doing. All those qualities and shared objectives gives us a convening power and influence on the african continent. There is no better partner the africans can have than the U.S.
▶ 1:29:29Sen. Ernst: I remember a story that was shared by a special operator in charge of a small tactical unit. They were brought into the situation because there were many warring factions in this area. The french were there. Other nations were there. None of them could get along. They couldn't come together in a collaborative engagement. It took the americans coming in and providing leadership and guidance.
▶ 1:30:00Sen. Ernst: When that happened those different factions were able to come together. Talking about americans being a convening authority is exceptional and true. I will stress how important I think it is the U.S. remain engaged on the world stage and provide leadership. We don't have to provide all the boots. American leadership is valuable.
▶ 1:30:31Sen. Ernst: In reference to the war in ukraine and russia, another story. When I deployed to operation iraqi freedom as a transportation company commander, we occupied a base in kuwait. We ran convoys through kuwait and iraq. On this camp, half was occupied by americans. Can you imagine who would occupy the other half? You don't have to know this.
▶ 1:31:01Sen. Ernst: [laughter] the other half was occupied by ukrainian soldiers. Why were the ukrainians there? They were not part of nato. Can you guess why?
▶ 1:31:14Gen. Cavoli: Probably because we asked them to be there and they responded positively.
▶ 1:31:20Sen. Ernst: Absolutely. I share that story because many don't realize the ukrainians were there for us when we needed them. It was all men. The ukrainian men, soldiers, they were route clearing engineers. I was a transportation company commander. I am grateful the ukrainians were there for us.
▶ 1:31:47Sen. Ernst: I cannot imagine how many american lives might have been saved by those ukrainian soldiers. I apologize for going over. I want to stress we do not operate in a vacuum, no matter where we are, our country is safer because we exhibit leadership and we have the convening power to bring many nations together. I thank you for all you do for our great nation in so many ways. God bless you.
▶ 1:32:15Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator kelly.
▶ 1:32:21Sen. Kelly: I would like to associate myself with senator ernst's remarks and echo them. In ukraine a few weeks ago, one of the messages I heard from their head of intelligence, general budinov and others, is that if we stick with them, they will stick with us. Wherever we need them, they will be there.
▶ 1:32:51Sen. Kelly: When you consider they are literally fighting for their survival and lives, to express to me how important our relationship was and what it means to them going forward. We have a friend we can rely on.
▶ 1:33:18Sen. Kelly: I am concerned, over the last few weeks, the politics around this conflict have gotten us off track.
▶ 1:33:37Sen. Kelly: From your perspective, friction between president zelenskyy and president trump, how do you feel our ukrainian allies are handling this now? What concerns do you hear from them about our ability to support them? I had members of the ukrainian parliament in my office talking specifics.
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Kelly: Pac3 rounds for patriot, 155 mm artillery, gps, systems. Give me a summary about where you think we are with our support and what do they need to continue the fight?
▶ 1:34:30Gen. Cavoli: Thank you. My interlocutors, principally general officers are resolute. They are focused on a task. They have defense to execute. They talk about the practical aspects. You are correct, they continue to depend on our support. Our support is a wide variety of munitions but also provision of intelligence.
▶ 1:35:02Gen. Cavoli: They are eager to maintain those. There are specific ones I can talk about enclosed session that are valuable, I did however earlier in open session mentioned air defense missiles is one of the most important because we are the sole provider for them.
▶ 1:35:18Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Good to see you. Africom has experienced conflict from the rise of violent organizations.
▶ 1:35:44Sen. Kelly: I'm concerned our defense optimization will trend toward pacific put away from other issues we cannot ignore, the real threat of terrorism and gray zone operations in africom. It's critical we don't lose sight of this real threat.
▶ 1:36:05Sen. Kelly: You previously highlighted your need for more isr capability, calling it an active deterrent in africa, yet we have limited platforms to go around. Socomm has begun purchasing the air greater.
▶ 1:36:30Sen. Kelly: Talk about the importance of an armed isr platform like the oa1 k, that could fill the close air support gap?
▶ 1:36:40Gen. Langley: Thank you. I will speak to the capabilities of various isr platforms in africa. Ongoing operations across amalia, it's important to the somalian national army.
▶ 1:37:02Gen. Langley: The need for isr armed, makes sense, responsible type targeting across the region. I will speak to the capabilities every combat and commander needs isr.
▶ 1:37:22Sen. Kelly: Do you feel the oa1k could fill a gap you have in africom?
▶ 1:37:30Gen. Langley: I will take any additional isr and enhanced tech that would add to credibility and validity of our forces.
▶ 1:37:40Sen. Kelly: Thank you.
▶ 1:37:41Chair Wicker: Thank you. A vote going on. We have a series of three votes. The hearing will continue. I will pass her gavel to various members. The hearing will not recess for the votes. Senator scott.
▶ 1:38:02Sen. Scott: Thank you for what you do, the men and women that work for you, sir with you and recognize and honor the brave american heroes who lost their lives serving in lithuania. That has to be tough when that happens, talking to their families.
▶ 1:38:27Sen. Scott: The importance of poland, estonia, latvia, with the when you in contrast, maybe germany will finally show up and do their part, of what they are doing along the eastern flank, in contrast to the lack of investment germany has made in the past?
▶ 1:38:53Gen. Cavoli: Great opportunity to talk about our newer allies. These are not flank owners. Post warsaw pact allies of the U.S. poland 4.7% gdp. As a benchmark, we are 3.4%.
▶ 1:39:17Gen. Cavoli: This is a country that has rapid economic growth sustained over 15 years and has committed to correcting the imbalance and defensive capability. They are buying vast quantities of U.S. equipment. They are integrating it with the alliance and making it available to the alliance for collective defense, which is fantastic. They are becoming the bulwark of our ground defenses on the eastern flank.
▶ 1:39:47Gen. Cavoli: Their officer corps is stepping up to the task. If we come up through lithuania, latvia, estonia, everyone of those countries is above 2%. Estonia and lithuania over 3%. 2-3 countries have instituted limited construction. They are building defense fortifications. They have extremely well integrated national defense plans with our nato plan. They are very active.
▶ 1:40:16Gen. Cavoli: I spent a good bit of time on their plans. Finland never looked away from its requirements through years and years since the winter war of 1939. They have happily, seamlessly and quickly integrated their defense plans into our nato plans and they are contributing a three-star land component command to handle potential ground fight in the high north for us. We are grateful to those countries.
▶ 1:40:46Sen. Scott: Germany.
▶ 1:40:48Gen. Cavoli: Germany has performed as an ally for many decades. During the cold war, we know how strong they were. Like many other nations in the alliance, they took a holiday from readiness and for sizing. They are trying to correct that. It's complicated politically. I believe friedrich meretz has been able to negotiate as part of a future coalition. He will be the chancellor.
▶ 1:41:18Gen. Cavoli: He has been able to negotiate an agreement to use deficit spending to finance more rapid growth and we look forward to that. They have solid plans for expansion and modernization.
▶ 1:41:30Sen. Scott: If you were placing troops around the nato alliance, american troops, without any past, where would you move troops? If you didn't have to worry about existing physical structures and things like that?
▶ 1:41:51Gen. Cavoli: Ultimately, we would like to see sufficiently robust national forces to be the basis of the defense of any part of the eastern flank. In some places, that is hard to see. The nations are not large enough. The baltics for instance. The second thing in those places is a reinforcement by a multinational alliance force. We have that in the three baltics.
▶ 1:42:22Gen. Cavoli: We would like to use U.S. forces to deploy rapidly from on the continent, responsively to the point of need. One of the differences between the cold war and now is we were sure where the battlefield would be during the cold war. We have 2300 kilometers of expanse. U.S. forces bring capabilities no one else has and can move the fastest.
▶ 1:42:49Gen. Cavoli: I need them in locations where they can be trained, ready and where they have the infrastructure and political and international agreements to deploy quickly from.
▶ 1:42:58Sen. Scott: Thank you for your service.
▶ 1:43:00Chair Wicker: Senator tuberville.
▶ 1:43:04Sen. Tuberville: Thank you for your service and good luck after retirement what are not done yet. Africom has historically suffered from shortfalls in manpower, isr and security. Sounds like from your testimony, africa is in trouble. 40% rise in terrorism. What is your most pressing need for what we can help you with?
▶ 1:43:33Gen. Langley: Thanks. Number one operational priority is protection of a force. As I stipulated, I focus on matching capabilities to threat.
▶ 1:43:55Gen. Langley: Integrated air missile defense, isr and other platforms would add to capacity/capability of protecting force. Enclosed session I would be able to elaborate with more specificity. All commanders ask for those platforms.
▶ 1:44:18Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. How much closer is ukraine from this time last year to winning the war against russia?
▶ 1:44:27Gen. Cavoli: They are in a better position not to lose it. They have shored up their defense. They have assumed strong defenses and improved their force generation capability. They are in a better position than they were. Depending on the objective, which has always been the question, in this chamber and others, it would be hard for them to accomplish some things but they are doing a good job holding their own.
▶ 1:44:55Sen. Tuberville: They are trying to win?
▶ 1:44:57Gen. Cavoli: They want to start by making sure russia doesn't win.
▶ 1:45:01Sen. Tuberville: Status of the f-16s we sent? Not classified because russia obviously knows.
▶ 1:45:10Gen. Cavoli: There are a number of f-16s, a number of pilots. There are more f-16s prepared to be deployed. There are more pilots in the training pipeline. I can give you the numbers in closed session. The planes are active. They fly every day. They have defeated large number of cruise missile threats and delivered a lot of offensive attacks.
▶ 1:45:39Gen. Cavoli: Specifically bombing attacks in the east. None of the f-16s have been from the U.S., they have mainly been from the netherlands and denmark.
▶ 1:45:50Sen. Tuberville: Status of patriot systems?
▶ 1:45:53Gen. Cavoli: They are up and running. I can tell you in closed session exactly. That has been in my mind a success story. I was dubious in the beginning. It is a complicated system. We train guys a long long time to operate it. Ukrainians put their best people against it and took to it like a fish to water. We learned from some of their techniques.
▶ 1:46:19Sen. Tuberville: Long-range missiles we allowed ukrainians to shoot into russia, how effective?
▶ 1:46:26Gen. Cavoli: Very.
▶ 1:46:28Sen. Tuberville: In all areas?
▶ 1:46:30Gen. Cavoli: Yeah. They have been effective. I can go into this in private session. The U.S. makes good weaponry. The ones we donated have been effective. Happy to talk to you about things.
▶ 1:46:48Sen. Tuberville: What is the status of kursk as we speak today? A lot of battles, a lot of people killed, prisoners taken. Where does that stand?
▶ 1:47:06Gen. Cavoli: There is a holding on inside russia, koester oblask. They have a sizable force and they maintain a well defended piece of terrain. They have augmented with terrain they recently captured kilometers just south of there.
▶ 1:47:32Sen. Tuberville: They gave up some, now they are taking it back?
▶ 1:47:36Gen. Cavoli: Correct. They have taken a little back farther south.
▶ 1:47:40Sen. Tuberville: Thank you for your service.
▶ 1:47:42Chair Wicker: The russians are nowhere near capable of making a big push right now?
▶ 1:47:52Gen. Cavoli: My assessment.
▶ 1:47:57Chair Wicker: What nationality are the pilots of the f-16s?
▶ 1:48:01Gen. Cavoli: Ukrainian.
▶ 1:48:03Chair Wicker: Where were they trained?
▶ 1:48:05Gen. Cavoli: In a variety of places, some in romania, the netherlands, arizona.
▶ 1:48:11Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator slotkin.
▶ 1:48:19Sen. Slotkin: Thank you for your significant service to the country. Appreciate you. I am sure you are not crying that this may be your last hearing in front of this committee but we are happy to have you. I cannot think of a general more associated with americans response to the invasion of ukraine then you given the role you have been playing for these last number of years.
▶ 1:48:49Sen. Slotkin: To establish a baseline, you said at the aspen security forum supporting ukraine is vital for american security. Can you confirm you still believe that is correct?
▶ 1:49:03Gen. Cavoli: I do believe that.
▶ 1:49:06Sen. Slotkin: You said russia, no matter how this war concludes, was still going to be a big problem. Do you believe after russia invaded georgia, crimea, eastern ukraine, that if some sort of deal was reached with vladimir putin, that he would be done with invading neighbors and adventurism in europe?
▶ 1:49:35Gen. Cavoli: I do not. Professional assessment based on years of study is this is part of a broader pattern in russian history and certainly current russian activity. How the U.S. orients against that is not my call but that is my assessment.
▶ 1:49:54Sen. Slotkin: Based on experience on the ground, having to negotiate military to military with the russians and others, do you believe the russians are a trustworthy negotiating partner?
▶ 1:50:07Gen. Cavoli: I believe they are a very deliberate negotiating partner. I believe they are very strategic in negotiations even over small tactical things I have been involved in over the years. They are highly proficient and will always chase their interests.
▶ 1:50:29Sen. Slotkin: The relationship between russia and china has evolved over the course of the war. Safe to say, since the war in ukraine, russia has become the biggest provider to china of military tack and equipment?
▶ 1:50:46Gen. Cavoli: They have increased the amount they provide. I am not a china expert. I am not sure who the biggest is. In closed session, we can talk about what they have been providing. In reverse, frequently I get asked, what support is china providing russia? One of the most pernicious is moral support.
▶ 1:51:19Gen. Cavoli: It justifies violation of another country's sovereignty, which is highly problematic for it to become high spread.
▶ 1:51:27Sen. Slotkin: Moscow is helping beijing to develop submarine, aeronautic and missile tech in exchange for china's moral support for russia's war and things beyond moral support.
▶ 1:51:42Sen. Slotkin: This administration has had little to say about china's military will and this partnership as they try and negotiate with russia, despite the pentagon's new national defense strategy which says they are focused on china, we don't see a lot of visibility on this pernicious topic, which is an alliance, stronger than ever, or a relationship at least between china and russia.
▶ 1:52:09Sen. Slotkin: Is russia helping china develop military capabilities that could impact the U.S.?
▶ 1:52:13Gen. Cavoli: Closed session, we can talk about it. They are not cooperating for the benefit of the U.S.
▶ 1:52:32Sen. Slotkin: We are a primary focus of the chinese military. That is not classified. Do you believe the chinese are watching what we do europe and learning lessons they may use when it comes to potentially taking taiwan?
▶ 1:52:49Gen. Cavoli: They are.
▶ 1:52:50Sen. Slotkin: Do you believe one of the lessons they are learning from watching us in this conflict as we quickly move to negotiate with putin, put a lot of trust in him, in the person who invaded a democracy, do you think that makes them more or less likely to take taiwan?
▶ 1:53:10Gen. Cavoli: They are learning lessons at every echelon, one of them being the policymaking and decision-making echelon. At military level, operationally and tactically they are studying hard in ways we know they would apply to any potential conflict in taiwan.
▶ 1:53:32Sen. Slotkin: Thank you for your service. >> recognize myself for five minutes. Germany is the biggest economy in europe, twice the gdp of russia. Also the biggest rewriter in nato. They are still not a capable force.
▶ 1:53:58Sen. Slotkin: Germany promised in 2023 to send an armored brigade to lithuania and it won't be operational until '27. There once fielded. The europeans are finally starting to spend more on defense. How long will it take before it turns into real capability?
▶ 1:54:26Gen. Cavoli: Important question. We have been waiting a long time to get the levels of defense spending we are starting to see now there has to be something to buy. 23 nations budgeting over 2% this year, several over 3%. Six are over 3%. Now it is converting it into hardware and organizations.
▶ 1:54:58Gen. Cavoli: Our industrial base in russia and on the side of the atlantic is struggling to produce the relative equipment and quantities. There is more money available than stuff right now. >> why.
▶ 1:55:12Gen. Cavoli: Our defense industrial basis on th sides of the atlantic atrophied under lack of orders. There are bureaucratic problems in governments in terms of acquiring stuffs, so that it goes slowly. The elasticity of our defense industrial base, both sides of the atlantic is one of the great strategic questions of the next 15 years.
▶ 1:55:37Gen. Cavoli: >> german defense minister last year said germany needed to move toward 3% gdp or more on defense. Do you think they are serious?
▶ 1:55:48Gen. Cavoli: I think they are. Friedrich meretz was just elected, next chancellor. Rapidly, he outlined the next coalition he will be leading. They came to agreement to do a massive increase in defense spending, far beyond the 100 billion euros comp of a couple years ago.
▶ 1:56:18Gen. Cavoli: The way they got there was by releasing the so-called debt break that prevented germany from assuming deficit spending. They exempted defense spending from the debt break. Historic breakthrough for them. It will allow them to apply their prodigious economic resources to defense. They have a strong plan to modernize and expand.
▶ 1:56:46Gen. Cavoli: It is exactly in accordance with what I did as a supreme allied commander. I am eager to see this. >> they are collaborating with you?
▶ 1:56:54Gen. Cavoli: Absolutely. >> how much would it strengthen your hand if all of our nato allies increased their spending to 3% gdp?
▶ 1:57:03Gen. Cavoli: I don't think you have ever met a general who wants less defense spending. >> it would help.
▶ 1:57:09Gen. Cavoli: Absolutely. We are eager to see it. We are eager to see it turn into real capability, which will require improvements in industrial capacity. >> the U.S. should redeploy more units in europe, to the pacific. I want to make sure we do that in the right way. What U.S. capabilities are european allies least capable of replacing right now?
▶ 1:57:39Gen. Cavoli: High-end air and missile defense on a large basis . They depend on us for significant intelligence collection, processing, exploitation and dissemination, deep long-range fires, aerial command and control for large scale campaigns, the backbone of certain parts of command-and-control. Those are the key things.
▶ 1:58:10Gen. Cavoli: There are a few things else I would like to go into in closed session. >> where are they most prepared to take over from us?
▶ 1:58:20Gen. Cavoli: Right now they do a variety of things without us. Today I have 17 or 20 european, nato ships turned over to my command. Normally military forces are held by the nations, then they turn it to me for particular operations. I have zero U.S. ships working for me right now.
▶ 1:58:45Gen. Cavoli: I have 40 individual human beings, marines, participating in the operation to monitor the baltic sea. Everything is being done by european allies in those cases. They have a variety of things they can do for us. One of the most important things they provide is intelligence.
▶ 1:59:08Gen. Cavoli: While we have exquisite capability to collect, they have deep understanding of their regions and capabilities we struggle to match in that regard. Those intel sharing relationships are based on a broader relationship we cultivate carefully.
▶ 1:59:30Sen. Peters: I have appreciated your participation in these hearings over the years. Thank you for your service. My deepest respect for the soldiers lost in lithuania last week. One was from michigan. I want folks to know that their service and sacrifice will never be forgotten.
▶ 2:00:02Sen. Peters: Exercise northern strike in michigan helps train thousands of service members from over 20 countries at the war fighting center, composed of 17,000 square miles of special use military airspace. Nadwic provides realistic joint training with allies and partners. Liberia has been part of this exercise the past several years.
▶ 2:00:35Sen. Peters: What role do exercises like northern strike play in advancing africom's strategic goals on the continent?
▶ 2:00:45Gen. Langley: Thanks. Our joint exercise program is indicative of the influence and building institutional capacity with african partners. The exercise you mentioned as well adds to that capacity. That is why we are the preferred partner.
▶ 2:01:10Gen. Langley: As we go forward and they address their challenges in building security cooperation or ability to address multiple layered threats these countries face, they choose U.S. the ccp and russian federation are trying to replicate it. They always come back to the U.S.
▶ 2:01:38Gen. Langley: Being the preferred partner for building and for building a institutional capacity. Liberia chose right.
▶ 2:01:48Sen. Peters: I want to pick up on that in terms of competition with russia and the ccp and their influence on operations in africa. China plays a strategic narrative set to justify and enhance their presence in sub-saharan africa.
▶ 2:02:08Sen. Peters: Through training programs, they integrate their perspective into local media, engages in 60 african political parties. Their most influential impact has been a belt and road initiative which has significantly impacted africa's economic landscape through substantial investments, particularly infrastructure.
▶ 2:02:33Sen. Peters: '23, african countries experienced a 47% in chinese construction contract and a 114% surge in investments compared to the previous year which totals $1.7 million.
▶ 2:02:53Sen. Peters: The ongoing presence china has in africa politically, economically, militarily and how that is a threat to our important strategic interests on the continent?
▶ 2:03:04Gen. Langley: China wants to be the global hedge now. Xi has put out a '49 plan but they want to get there earlier. There lies the importance we show actions. We cannot harbor just the facts. We don't own the narrative.
▶ 2:03:32Gen. Langley: It is being drowned out by the ccp and their campaign plans, to be able to influence civil society, the militaries. They cannot replicate what we do. Whether it be trying to copy what we are doing in our international military education and training, it does not compare.
▶ 2:03:57Gen. Langley: We match our efforts, whether it is title ii funding or title x funding, security, the state partnership program or the superior force assistance brigades. They build institutional capacity like none other. Our african partners know that. Whatever is in the information space, we need to meet it with a comparable narrative.
▶ 2:04:23Sen. Peters: Thank you to both of you for your service. >> I will call myself now. Truman and eisenhower through reagan and gaetz, U.S. leaders, some interesting comments.
▶ 2:04:47Sen. Peters: Jen lies in our noted -- general eisenhower noted, if in 10 years all american troops stationed in europe do not return to the U.S., this project will have failed. Dean atkinson said the U.S. must lead but not carry. President kennedy said "we want to make sure nato is not a fair weather organization.
▶ 2:05:16Sen. Peters: The burden of freedom must be shared equally among members." lbj had similar thoughts. His administration demanded offset agreements from west germany for the cost of U.S. troops there. President nixon and henry kissinger "the U.S.
▶ 2:05:32Sen. Peters: Will participate in the defense and development of allies and friends but america cannot and will not concede all plans, execute all decisions, undertake all the defense of free nations of the world." caspar weinberger said "our european allies must recognize success must not be achieved by words alone." robert gates said there will be a dwindling appetite for dwindling funds to devote the
▶ 2:06:04Sen. Peters: Necessary resources to be serious and capable partners in their own defense. Secretary mattis said americans cannot care for your children's future security than you do. Some of my colleagues have been wringing their hands over the possibility the U.S. might step away from its role as a supreme allied commander in europe. The american people are not that worried about it.
▶ 2:06:30Sen. Peters: They probably thought that ended when dwight eisenhower was no longer the supreme commander. "if in 10 years, all american troops in europe do not return to the U.S., that whole project will have failed." that was 70 years ago. The U.S. is expected to shoulder europe's defense.
▶ 2:06:55Sen. Peters: Some of my colleagues point out since the war in ukraine began, europe has collectively spent as much on european defense as the U.S., as if that is some time. It shows me how upside down this is. How is it impressive the nations defending their own continent are only barely keeping pace with a country across the atlantic?
▶ 2:07:19Sen. Peters: If europe believes it is facing existential threat from russia, it should be spending not just as much as we have but magnitudes more than we do. 100 times. That's what a commitment would look like. Please stop telling me comparing spending in europe is even. That is laughably narrow. When you compare U.S.
▶ 2:07:42Sen. Peters: Defense spending in europe, you ignore everything else america goes worldwide, much of which benefit zero. Who ensures freedom of navigation in the red sea? Clue contains china's growing dominance across the indo pacific destabilizing maritime routes? Without U.S. global power production, the european way of life would not exist as we know it and still they won't take responsibility for their backyard.
▶ 2:08:11Sen. Peters: If russia is economy wide threat as european leaders say, where is the urgency? Where's the mobilization? With few exceptions, poland and the baltics, europe is not acting like it is facing down a generational threat. I am tired of explaining to working americans why they should send more money and troops, more of their sons and daughters to defend a continent that refuses to defend itself. Why should we care about moscow.
▶ 2:08:45Sen. Peters: It doesn't make sense. It is time to stop attending it does. For 80 years we told europe to get serious about defense. They have blown us off. They haven't listened. Maybe they never will as long as we keep doing the job for them. Yes, maybe we should have a conversation about the supreme commander role. Maybe having an american general in that seat furthers this roos. We should have the debate, not simply dismiss it.
▶ 2:09:16Sen. Peters: Let's have an honest conversation. American priorities in europe. Stop confusing symbolism with strategy. While we are at it, maybe stop waving foreign flags on the house floor when americans can barely afford groceries. Some my colleagues think to defend ukraine matters more than defending our own border. I disagree and so do the american people. It is time for misalignment. Let europe grow up.
▶ 2:09:46Sen. Peters: America's job is not to babysit the world. It is to protect our people and interest,. . I had to say what I had to say. Since I'm the chairman, I will ask one question. Greenland. Can you talk about the strategic importance and why that matters to the U.S.?
▶ 2:10:09Gen. Cavoli: From my perspective. >> from a military perspective.
▶ 2:10:17Gen. Cavoli: I will limit my comments to my field of expertise, the european theater. Eucomm, oar. The key, it informs the western border of the greenland, iceland, u.k. Gap. That body of water through which russian submarines from the northern fleet, and down through that gap.
▶ 2:10:48Gen. Cavoli: Once they get past that cap, they break out into the atlantic and it becomes tough to track it. It is a vast ocean. Acoustic underwater geography makes it tough. From those positions, they can hold the U.S. homeland at risk. Several important targets with land attack cruise missiles. Greenland is the western boundary of that gap.
▶ 2:11:12Gen. Cavoli: My access to it, airspace and water space, pounding greenland is critical for the U.S. -- bounding greenland.
▶ 2:11:25Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you both for your service. I joined my colleagues in regretting your retirement. You both have been frank, informative, dedicated. Models of public service. I wish you well.
▶ 2:11:52Sen. Blumenthal: We have talked over the years about vladimir putin's murderous invasion of ukraine. No question who the aggressor is. No question the aggression, murderous bloody assault is continuing with undiminished force against ukraine, as you note powerfully in your
▶ 2:12:22Sen. Blumenthal: Testimony, russia is building its military strength. The kremlin learns quickly and historically it restructures forces as necessary. It is reconstituting itself. Tapping additional manpower, preparing to continue this assault. At the same time, slow walking and playing us in supposed negotiations.
▶ 2:12:51Sen. Blumenthal: Not going to ask you to comment on negotiations. I recognize your mission is military. I would ask how you would characterize russia's ability to recoup material and personnel losses in ukraine -- will it succeed in rebuilding losses and what threat does that represent
▶ 2:13:22Sen. Blumenthal: To american security?
▶ 2:13:23Gen. Cavoli: If we divide russia's rebuilding capability into personnel and equipment, personnel they will be able to build as quickly as they want to. They maintain constriction. Last week, the russian government announced its annual conscription drive, increased by 10,000 over last year, 160,000.
▶ 2:13:54Gen. Cavoli: With those numbers, they will constitute the force size they choose quickly. Tougher to organize it into the organizations they said they want to build after the war. They want an army of 1.5 million and they want a lot of it on the border with nato and northeastern europe. It will take time to do that.
▶ 2:14:19Gen. Cavoli: We are a couple years equipment, they lost a vast amount of equipment inside ukraine. They started the war with near 13,000 tanks on active and in storage. They are starting to approach near the end of that. Depending how much more they lose, that will determine how quickly they can regenerate.
▶ 2:14:45Gen. Cavoli: They expanded their capability to produce artillery shells, cruise missiles tremendously and they are producing one-way attack drones in prodigious numbers they weren't producing at all before the war.
▶ 2:14:59Sen. Blumenthal: Would characterize that capability offensive. They are not defending against a possible invasion from ukraine. They are preparing for continuing offensive actions against ukraine, possibly nato allies if they are successful in ukraine?
▶ 2:15:21Gen. Cavoli: I would add this is not just in the ground domain. They have long-range aviation that practices daily, moving out and doing strikes across north america. They have their strategic ballistic missile fleet that are constantly out there. Their submarine fleet is constantly out. There is the cyber domain in which they are active.
▶ 2:15:50Sen. Blumenthal: I have heard from critics of our military aid to ukraine that there are significant numbers of weapons embezzled, stolen, missing from the aid we are providing ukraine.
▶ 2:16:13Sen. Blumenthal: On every one of the visits, I have been to ukraine six times now, I have talked to our military and logistics folks in poland and they are tracking virtually every bullet we provided and there is no evidence whatsoever of our misappropriation?
▶ 2:16:36Gen. Cavoli: I agree. There will be a challenge locating all of it later. It's easy to misplace things in combat. We have seen no deliberate effort to transfer, sell or steal weaponry.
▶ 2:16:57Sen. Blumenthal: My hope is russia will take seriously the efforts to stop slow walking and stonewalling negotiations for right now they seem to be playing us for time. Thank you for your incredible service.
▶ 2:17:24Chair Wicker: Thank you. Africa is a mineral rich, resource rich continent?
▶ 2:17:41Gen. Langley: Yes.
▶ 2:17:44Chair Wicker: You can leave the microphone on. Are there success stories for the citizens of african countries when these larger, more prosperous nations or companies from more prosperous areas come in and
▶ 2:18:17Chair Wicker: Exploit these minerals. What I am asking is does it ever rebound to the benefit of the citizens there in africa. >> when the chinese communist party is on a and not benefiting the host country, they have been trying to come up with ways of how they can stay there and process but only at
▶ 2:18:50Chair Wicker: The protest at these people of the african countries that host these miniature -- mineral services.
▶ 2:19:03Chair Wicker: So, can you point to any success story where the people of one country or one or two countries have that substantially? >> not on china's behalf, just what happened in zambia where there was a spillage into the river that serviced 5 million people. There are mining concessions that do not turn out well chair
▶ 2:19:34Wicker: For those countries.
▶ 2:19:34Chair Wicker: And do the countries that are receiving entreaties, are they more and more mindful of that, and therefore reluctant? >> yes. And that is where we need people -- we need to do information operations to illuminate some of the irregularities and some of them align activities of the chinese and african countries.
▶ 2:20:05Chair Wicker: Information and narratives are power? >> as I said a few minutes ago and I will always doubt this, we own the facts and I know exactly what the chinese communist party is doing and what the russian federation is doing and their propaganda operations. We do not own the narrative.
▶ 2:20:30Chair Wicker: We sure do not. One more thing for you, general langley. The approach that we have had with usaid and the other things like the initiative on aids, how does our U.S.
▶ 2:20:55Chair Wicker: Approach compare and contrast to the approach of russia in africa and also communist china in africa?
▶ 2:21:10Gen. Langley: Chairman, we have always had the lead. In what you -- and what you are seeing is that they are following in the wake. They see what works as far the influence and deepening partnerships where we have held diplomacy or development type programs. They are trying to replicate what we do best. And, I think the african countries know this.
▶ 2:21:37Gen. Langley: And so, this is where, as we start to look at going forward, the state department resets these programs looking at what worked and did not work and doubling down on what did work. I think we have enough capital built up for them to ensure their stabilization and also prosperity. The other two competitors are trying to replicate what we do best.
▶ 2:22:06Chair Wicker: I can imagine a situation in which the ruling elite of a country is receiving gratuities on the side. That are to the benefit of the strongman leader. And not to the populace of the country. Does that sort of corruption and bribery go on with regard to the belt and road?
▶ 2:22:37Gen. Langley: Absolutely. But I will call them out. They know that both whether it is the goal reserves, that is all, all of those proceeds are just in exchange to protect the regime. There are a number of examples across. Even in sudan, what is going on with the rapid support forces.
▶ 2:23:10Gen. Langley: The sedan forces. When you get down it is all about the revenue drawn out of that. And there are actors in the ccp or sometimes russia that are complicit in those activities.
▶ 2:23:23Chair Wicker: Ok. You cannot imagine how frustrating it seems to me that this mineral rich consonant has not -- continent has not been able to move to a utilization of the resources to benefit the people. After all of this time. It is a puzzle that we have not unwound.
▶ 2:23:49Chair Wicker: Let me see if I can move to general cavoli and then I hope that we can leave. You are aware of various voices coming from inside government in the united states as well as the media that have spoken with approval about the russian organized referendums in 2022 in
▶ 2:24:23Chair Wicker: So-called overwhelming russian speaking provinces. General, tell us what you know and what you understand about the freedom of those organized referendums, and the accuracy of them as a measure of public opinion?
▶ 2:24:47Gen. Cavoli: Sure. I do not think I am familiar with the voices in washington talking about this. But I do remember them very well. There were referendums in luka doncic, donetsk provinces in september 2022. They were roundly condemned by nations throughout the world and international organizations.
▶ 2:25:16Gen. Cavoli: The inner -- the organization for security and cooperation in europe called it illegitimate. The united nations called them illegal. I think the only country in the world that accepted the result of those referendums other than russia was north korea. So, they have widely been considered not legitimate for a variety of reasons.
▶ 2:25:43Gen. Cavoli: About the way they took place, and taking place during a conflict by an occupying power.
▶ 2:25:49Chair Wicker: So if members of congress want to be informed by what happened in these referenda, if our negotiators in this peace process want to be informed by these referenda, what lesson should we take from the legitimacy of those votes?
▶ 2:26:12Gen. Cavoli: Sir, I think that anybody who wants to know about it, it is well-established history. It is pretty easy to find and I can direct your colleagues or anybody that you want to sources on it. What conclusions can we draw?
▶ 2:26:34Gen. Cavoli: The conclusion that the russian federation was intent on absorbing those provinces and attempted to put a gloss of legitimacy by holding a referendum that had results like 99% in favor.
▶ 2:26:47Chair Wicker: Rigged results?
▶ 2:26:50Gen. Cavoli: That was the widespread conclusion at the time. Yes.
▶ 2:26:55Chair Wicker: And also. Since you are a student of the russian language yourself. Is the fact that the russian language is spoken in part of ukraine, is that demonstrative of their loyalty with regard to their nationality?
▶ 2:27:20Gen. Cavoli: We see linguistic minorities in countries all over the world. There certainly is a russian dominant language population in eastern ukraine. We see a russian language population and eastern estonia. So --
▶ 2:27:40Chair Wicker: They consider themselves loyal estonians?
▶ 2:27:44Gen. Cavoli: Yes. It does not have much to do with sovereignty. We have populations in our country that do not speak english.
▶ 2:27:52Chair Wicker: That was a point I was trying to make. Senator reed, we will be going into a closed session, do you have any questions?
▶ 2:28:02Sen. Reed: I have a few questions. General, in your military opinion does the agreement to facilitate access and basic needs and greenland meet current military requirements?
▶ 2:28:18Gen. Cavoli: I can only talk about the part of the military requirements that affect me. Our principal presence on green giant -- on greenland is the basic and northwestern greenland. That is a space for space. And I do not know if it is adequate for them or not.
▶ 2:28:44Gen. Cavoli: From my perspective as the supreme allied commander and U.S. european commander, I have all of the access and basing that we need to prosecute in the high north.
▶ 2:28:54Sen. Reed: That is from your perspective. Greenland is within your area of operations, yes.
▶ 2:29:02Gen. Cavoli: It is within my area of operations and it is wind -- within my area of operations as a U.S.-european commander.
▶ 2:29:12Sen. Reed: And you feel like we have all we need to confront the frets?
▶ 2:29:17Gen. Cavoli: Again, senator. My part of that is what I can comment on. That is from the coast of greenland eastward and northward to counter russian threats. I cannot speak for northcom or anything like that.
▶ 2:29:34Sen. Reed: If africa dissolved and merged into you,, you would have the responsibility -- e ucom, you would have the responsibility for more than 50 countries.
▶ 2:29:50Gen. Cavoli: I would have the responsibility for 50 more countries. It would be a stretch. That is a wide span of control. I think that the organization, if it were aggregated would possess the expertise and the capacity because when africom was created, it was mainly created by cleaving it out of the eucom headquarters and
▶ 2:30:21Gen. Cavoli: Establishing it separate and sometimes in the exact same buildings. My assumption would be that a lot of that capacity would have to come back to eucom to adequately handle the threats and problems that general langley talked about. It would have to be studied closely, of course.
▶ 2:30:39Sen. Reed: I have one question for general language -- general langley, just a comment. We talked about the german contributions and how it is increasing. We missed some of the history here and in many decades germany was divided. So, it is not the same country now that it was in the 1960's in terms of its economic capacity.
▶ 2:31:05Sen. Reed: The second point that strikes me is that for many years after world war ii, there was a great reluctance upon germany and most other countries in the world to see them create a powerful military force. We had seen that before after world war I. And I think that has to be factored into their reluctance to spend on defense. But now, I think it is a turnaround and they are putting the resources and that they should. My question.
▶ 2:31:37Sen. Reed: General langley, have you had specific comments from your counterparts about the usaid from africa. Are they asking why are you doing this?
▶ 2:31:49Gen. Langley: Ranking member, 19 for that question. I went to a security conference about a month ago, a little greater. And after I got my direction from the secretary of defense, what my priorities were, especially to counterterrorism and to deter china was to refine my mission.
▶ 2:32:15Gen. Langley: And then I had to come up with a narrative to engage these countries and be transparent and straight talk that we were going through a pause and we are in a reflection period, assessing what has worked in the past and what will work in the future, and in the future, will be more targeted to what their needs are. But they also need to be able to build towards a sense of independent operations.
▶ 2:32:44Gen. Langley: You know, I expressed this and talk to their mod and even in ghana, the new president-elect. They understood that, and they also carried on the narrative. They appreciated me being transparent if. They appreciated that narrative when we went to morocco and delivered that helicopters.
▶ 2:33:13Gen. Langley: It is more of a burden sharing type message, and also a regimented message of getting towards the host nation coming to the point of independent operations.
▶ 2:33:26Sen. Reed: Thank you.
▶ 2:33:28Chair Wicker: Thank you Mr. ranking member. This concludes the open portion of the hearing. For the information of members and staff, questions for the record will be due within the committee in two business days of the conclusion of this hearing.
▶ 2:33:45Chair Wicker: We will commence the close portion of this hearing in senate security at the hour of 12:10, 10 minutes past noon, and until then we are in recess. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]