▶ 0:20:14Chair Crapo: The committee will come to order. We welcome the U.S. trade representative jamieson greer for the annual hearing on the presidents trade a grant -- on the presidents trade agenda. Numbers in the public have concerns about recent tariff actions and that is ok. We should think about tariff impacts and ask questions. Thoughtful and respectful debate on these issues is good and why we call hearings like this one with the U.S. trade representative. Welcome.
▶ 0:20:46Chair Crapo: We need to think strategically about tariff policy, including how to minimize unnecessary costs on american families. I also recognize that although it is easy to see the costs arising from tariffs it is far more difficult to assess the cost of denying market access opportunities. Tariffs can advance american interest in market access. In the first trump administration we saw tariffs used to stop france from imposing discriminatory digital service taxes.
▶ 0:21:18Chair Crapo: Tariffs also forced china to discuss the systemic challenges between our nations. Every enforcement action, whether it is a wto dispute, a section 301 investigation, or a preference program review ultimately relies on the threat of tariffs to secure objectives. Accordingly it is important to contextualize the tariffs in the design of the larger policy. The real headline becomes the fundamental shift in trade policy since president trump's inauguration.
▶ 0:21:51Chair Crapo: United states now actually plans to do trade again. My colleagues and I want to pursue a real trade policy. That was put on hold during the biden years. We now have a president who will partner with us in that effort and together we will enforce our rights, we will negotiate again, and we will expand opportunities for americans.
▶ 0:22:15Chair Crapo: This administration is not deliberating endlessly over whether trait can be a force for good like the past administration, which refused to even engage in bipartisan or bilateral market access trade negotiations. Trade today is the centerpiece of error in national economic engagement.
▶ 0:22:41Chair Crapo: Businesses want certainty from good policies that can continue so they can invest confidently in prospects that create jobs and wealth. That is one of the primary reasons I am working hard to make the trump tax cuts permanent, to provide businesses the certainty they need to make long-term investments to drive growth and increase prosperity across all segments of the economy.
▶ 0:23:03Chair Crapo: Contrast this kind of certainty and forward thinking on trade with that of the last four years were the only certainty was you were going to lose ground because your government fundamentally rejected free markets, free enterprise, and free-trade. The last administration turned to industrial policy because it was certain the free market failed at delivering what government planners believed was necessary for climate and social agendas.
▶ 0:23:33Chair Crapo: China's central planners saw their own strategic thinking and the inflation reduction act approach of bestowing massive subsidies to stimulate investment the market would not. We can restore faith in free markets by making it easier than ever to do business in america. The president's executive order last week to assist major investigators -- major investors to navigate our regulatory system efficiently is a good start. We plan to do more.
▶ 0:24:04Chair Crapo: The biden administration provided us with only the certainty that in the face of a foreign governments discriminatory policies like digital service taxes, data localization, or other nontariff barriers it would not stand up for its citizens because it believed the so-called right to regulate trumped the principle of free enterprise. Respectfully, democratic governments do not have rights.
▶ 0:24:29Chair Crapo: They sit to secure rights for their citizens -- they exist to secure rights for their citizens. One welcome trade development under the trump administration appeared last week and national trade estimate. The biden administration cut from the estimate number of discriminatory measures imposed on america by foreign governments because it sided with those governments over our citizens.
▶ 0:24:56Chair Crapo: This year's estimate is exhaustive because the administration carefully identified all of the ways americans lose out in the global marketplace. Finally, the validity of free-trade will be seen again. Last administration did not pursue market access in its negotiations. Instead it demanded governments to undertake a number of social and environmental commitments, even ones congress did not approve of domestically.
▶ 0:25:26Chair Crapo: Not surprisingly, our partners to not put their trust in such negotiations. While tariffs may be seen at odds with free-trade we must also acknowledge that many of our trading partners deploy barriers that have gone unchallenged for too long. Free-trade by definition must be reciprocal. We do not have it if others can impose barriers on us unchallenged.
▶ 0:25:54Chair Crapo: Our failure to enforce our rights over the last four years lost a lot of ground for us. This cannot continue because what I am certain about his american goods and services are innovative and globally competitive. Senior administration officials say a number of countries are coming to the table to engage with the ustr. We look forward to hearing about this engagement and the steps toward better opportunities for americans. With that I turned to senator wyden.
▶ 0:26:24Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Mr. chairman and colleagues, today's hearing on the presidents trade agenda begins with american retirement funds, investors, and our economy in purgatory thanks to donald trump's plan to hike tariffs to levels not seen since before the invention of the automobile. Prices are continuing to increase.
▶ 0:26:53Sen. Wyden: Markets for made in the usa products are slamming shut around the world. The U.S. economy has gone from the envy of the world to a laughingstock in less time than it took to finish march madness. Through it all, donald trump and his advisers have yet to provide an understandable explanation, any explanation for what his tax hike on the american people is supposed to accomplish.
▶ 0:27:23Sen. Wyden: This morning I would like to focus on one central question. What is the plan. In the last week the white house has been all over the map and it comes to thisthere is no clear e comes to thisthere is no clear w the tariffs wereaccomplish, howl be in whether they are negotiating tool or a move to try to cut the united states off from global trade and usher in a
▶ 0:27:55Sen. Wyden: New era of 1870's style protectionism. In the days since donald trump announced his tariffs, the president and his advisers have repeatedly changed their stories on all of these questions. Last thursday, donald trump said "the tariffs give us great power to negotiate" just after secretary let nick and a top economic advisor told reporters that tariffs were not up for negotiation.
▶ 0:28:26Sen. Wyden: Then the stories changed again on sunday when the seetary of agriculture and a top white house economic advisor said trump's tariffs were bringing foreign countries to the table hoping to negotiate new deals for tariffs.
▶ 0:28:43Sen. Wyden: The same time the treasury secretary on tv sunday saying the tariffs would remain in place for "days and weeks." asked if the tariffs were up for negotiation the commerce secretary said tariffs are coming. He announced it and he was not getting. The tariffs are coming. Yesterday in the oval office donald trump said there can be permanent tariffs there can also be negotiations. This morning what we want to know is what is the plan?
▶ 0:29:15Sen. Wyden: The stock market is up a bit this morning on another round of rumors that donald trump might not go through with his full barrage of tariffs. Yet this weekend donald trump retweeted a post on truth social arguing that trump is crashing our economy and markets on purpose as a strategy to lower interest rates.
▶ 0:29:46Sen. Wyden: Is it possible that is the plan? Tank the economy so wealthy people can borrow money more cheaply? We know billionaires like howard lutnick and semi billionaires like scott bessent will not mankind -- will not mind paying more for groceries and gas. For families higher costs will get hurt -- higher costs will hurt. The nonpartisan yale budget lab predicts the tariffs will cost families $3800 in the first year alone. At Mr. greer's confirmation hearing he argued economic security leads to strong national security.
▶ 0:30:18Sen. Wyden: Our country is getting the opposite with these pointless tariffs. Destroying the foundations of our economy makes our people less safe. You look at stellantis, the auto company laying off 900 workers in response to the tariffs. Pacific northwest fruit growers are being told no more american exports and small businesses in oregon are being told more they have to pay more to make the materials they need for their products.
▶ 0:30:47Sen. Wyden: I worry americans will still be poor and face greater threats to our national securities thanks to these trump policies. Is that the plan? The trump chaotic tariff spree has proven beyond a doubt that congress has given far too much of our power over the international trade to the executive branch. It is time to take that power back.
▶ 0:31:14Sen. Wyden: On a bipartisan vote, 51 senators sent that signal last week by stepping in and passing legislation to lift trump's reckless tariffs on canada. Now donald trump has slapped tariffs on about 180 countries and this is a big unforced error. Let me close with this announcement.
▶ 0:31:40Sen. Wyden: Today I am proposing a new bipartisan privileged resolution to end the latest crop of global tariffs clobbering american families and small businesses. This is a call to action and congress must step in to rein in this president on trade. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:32:03Chair Crapo: Ambassador greer, you may now make your statement.
▶ 0:32:08Mr. Greer: Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time today for this hearing. Last wednesday president trump declared a national emergency in response to the large and persistent trade deficit that is built up in recent years. This deficit is driven by nonreciprocal tariffs, trading barriers, and other economic policies pursued by our trading partners. The situation is urgent.
▶ 0:32:36Mr. Greer: President trump imposed tariffs to address this emergency these measures are aimed at achieving reciprocity to restore production in the united states. This national emergency declaration is the most giving and change in U.S. trade policy since we allowed china to join the wto. The american working class has suffered concentrated losses from the china shop and other adverse effects of past trade policy the conditions that give rise to this massive trade deficit.
▶ 0:33:05Mr. Greer: You've heard some of these numbers before. United states has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs since 1994. President biden left us with a 1.2 trillion dollars trade deficit in goods, the largest of any country in the history of the world. United states share of world manufacturing output decline from 2001 to last year. In the fourth quarter of 2024 U.S. manufacturing was lowest it had been in 20 years.
▶ 0:33:34Mr. Greer: During covid we were unable to procure semiconductors to build our cars or materials for pharmaceuticals and personal protective equipment. In world war ii we built nearly 9000 ships. Last year they built only three oceangoing vessels. Our agricultural trade imbalance which historically resulted in trade surpluses wasn't deficit the last two years of the biden administration and will likely take some time to recover.
▶ 0:34:00Mr. Greer: These are serious indications of an economic and national security emergency and we cannot ignore it. One driver of these trends has been nonreciprocal trades. This includes the effect of higher tariffs imposed by countries on the united states, the effect of nontariff measures that promote other countries exports and obstruct U.S. export, and other foreign economic policies favoring overproduction and degrading america's manufacturing capacity and the lack of reciprocity is an important driver of our global trade deficit.
▶ 0:34:30Mr. Greer: It is common sense to focus on these indicators. The european union can sell us all the shellfish they want but the eu bans shellfish from 48 states. Result is a trade deficit in south -- in shellfish. Result charges is an 18% tariff on ethanol, the result is we have a large trade deficit. Our average tariff on a good cultural goods is 5% but india's average tariff is 39%.
▶ 0:35:02Mr. Greer: Our trade deficit driven by these nonreciprocal conditions is a manifestation of the loss of the nation's ability to make, to grow, to build, the president recognizes the urgency of the moment. On the first day of the second term president trump issued a comprehensive memorandum setting out his directive and over the past 10 weeks he is executed on nearly all of these priorities.
▶ 0:35:25Mr. Greer: He has tightened tariffs on steel and aluminum, imposed measures on auto parts not made in the united states, and on april 2 the president declare the national emergency we've discussed. The president has proposed a reciprocal tariff to achieve reciprocity with other countries and drive the dangerous deficit down. The president strategy is already bearing fruit. Over the past few weeks of plant layoff or auto production in tennessee has been suspended. Another automaker is hiring additional employees to increase auto production.
▶ 0:35:56Mr. Greer: In indiana companies have announced for chile dollars in new investment in the united states. 50 countries have approached me personally to discuss the president's new policy and how to receive reciprocity. Several of these countries such as argentina, vietnam, israel, and india have suggested they will reduce their tariffs in line with the president's policy and these are welcome moves.
▶ 0:36:20Mr. Greer: Our large and persistent trade deficit has been over 30 years in the making and will not be resolved overnight but all of this is in the right direction, particular gas we start to negotiate with these countries. We must move away from an economy based solely on government spending in the financial sector and become an economy based on producing real goods and services that provide jobs for working-class and middle-class americans.
▶ 0:36:43Mr. Greer: This adjustment may be challenging at times it in a moment of drastic change I am certain the american people can rise to the challenge as they have done before. I appreciate this committee's interest in president trump's trade agenda and I'm glad we are talking about this. It has created debate. We may not agree on everything but I know you want to do what is best for america and so does the president and so dry and will collaborate on this -- and so do I and will collaborate on this.
▶ 0:37:13Chair Crapo: Yesterday secretary bessent stated you and he both will be trade negotiations with japan. I am pleased president trump has decided to press for market access in this case. I hope we will see more negotiations that press 40 barriers. Can you explain what is the scope of these negotiations?
▶ 0:37:34Mr. Greer: Thank you. Yesterday the president directed sec. Bessent and myself to interact with the japanese. We have been having conversations with them over the past weeks. This is not a new development but we are taking it to a new level. We want to have more market access in japan. We feel like we could have better agricultural market access. There are structural impediments to our goods in terms of regulations.
▶ 0:38:05Mr. Greer: I also think there are things we can do with our trading partners , things are not purely in the trade sector with respect to economic security, whether it is export controls or investments reading alignment or energy, making sure our partners are tied up with us with respect to liquefied natural gas and other resources as opposed to being dependent on other countries that may not be as friendly. All of these factors will go into these discussions with japan in the coming weeks.
▶ 0:38:32Chair Crapo: As you indicated in your testimony the it ministration or you have been approached by about 50 other countries already. I assume the objective in these approaches -- I assume there will be discussions and negotiations with them. Could you verify the objective is to engage in market access negotiations with these countries?
▶ 0:38:59Mr. Greer: As these countries approach us, the idea is we have had years and years of nonreciprocal access it has contributed to these trade deficits. As the countries come to approach us what we have told them is if you have a better idea to achieve reciprocity and get our trade deficit down, we want to talk to you, we want to negotiate with you.
▶ 0:39:24Mr. Greer: Sometimes they have exports to us driven by subsidies and unfair trading practices and then obviously they have nonreciprocal treatment on their end when we block our exports, sometimes through prohibitive tariffs and quotas not administered in the appropriate way or unfair trading practices. These are the kinds of things that should be targeted. I do not want to prejudge the negotiations but if they can provide an alternative plan that can further these objectives I think we are open to that.
▶ 0:39:50Chair Crapo: The america first trade policy memorandum rightly task the ustr to review china's compliance with the phase one agreement. Under the agreement china is obligated to purchase more U.S. goods and change basic practices and laws. The prior administration refused to discuss whether china complied with its structural commitments.
▶ 0:40:17Chair Crapo: These were commitments made in response to tariffs in president trump's first presidency, correct?
▶ 0:40:21Mr. Greer: That's right.
▶ 0:40:23Chair Crapo: What is your analysis of china's compliance with the commitments it made in phase one?
▶ 0:40:29Mr. Greer: Our assessment is in the initial stages of the agreement china made significant movement to make structural changes, whether it was with respect to agricultural rules in financial services or ip. We found during the biden administration there was little enforcement and little communication and the chinese did not comply with this agreement. I have had a call with my counterpart and communicated to him our feeling on this that they have not complied with the agreement and we are disappointed by this.
▶ 0:41:00Mr. Greer: It is not surprising. We are certainly disappointed.
▶ 0:41:03Chair Crapo: And now you are engaged to see if we can get compliance.
▶ 0:41:08Mr. Greer: We will see. The chinese have agency in this. It is not just U.S. policy. We welcome and we hope foreign countries will change their practices to make sure they are fair and we look forward to continuing to monitor that situation.
▶ 0:41:24Chair Crapo: Thank you. The administration has announced it is negotiating an agreement with india and it appears already to be yielding results such as india dropping its digital services tax. India has high tariffs and its nontariff barriers are just as significant. Will you try to include commitments on matters such as intellectual property and science-based agricultural rules to take on those barriers?
▶ 0:41:55Mr. Greer: Yes, and I've a standing call with my indian counterpart to address these issues. Thank you, senator wyden?
▶ 0:42:05Chair Crapo: Thank you -- Sen.
▶ 0:42:07Wyden: Thank you. I saw you said the president strategy is already bearing fruit. For a lot of oregonians with 401(k)s that is pretty rotten stuff and you want to realize how serious this is for the country. Everybody in the ministration has a different story about the trump tax hike. I am interested in knowing what the story is today. Will higher tariffs go into effect tomorrow as announced?
▶ 0:42:39Mr. Greer: Yes. They are scheduled to go into effect. We are having negotiations with all kinds of countries. The president is fixed in his purpose. Nature of the emergency is not something we can wait on anymore so we will have the president's plan go into effect and we are coupling that with the negotiations with our partners.
▶ 0:43:01Sen. Wyden: Is not a question of something being scheduled. You're committed they are going to go into effect?
▶ 0:43:08Mr. Greer: This is what the president has set.
▶ 0:43:11Sen. Wyden: For how many countries?
▶ 0:43:13Mr. Greer: Negotiating with us? We have about 50 that are speaking with us and I'm constantly talking to my counterparts. I have staff at ustr meeting with others and we will have the tariffs in place if the other countries can come to agreement on reciprocal trade that is something the president can consider. I do not want to prejudge the negotiations or the president's decision.
▶ 0:43:38Sen. Wyden: You said you've been negotiating deals. Foreign countries have already retaliated against our farmers and ranchers. How can you commit negotiations will not stop bleeding but actually open up markets the trump tariffs have closed off?
▶ 0:43:54Mr. Greer: We've have already had many countries, many of our markets explain they are not going to retaliate against the united states and in fact in vietnam they have lowered their tariffs already on sherry's, they have lowered them on almonds and apples, things that are important to the pacific northwest, and this is the right direction. I look forward to hearing do what other kind of market access we want.
▶ 0:44:19Sen. Wyden: What is the status of china? That is a big market for us. What is the status of discussions there? I do not see much progress. I see what looks like it will escalate and hurt our consumers and small businesses.
▶ 0:44:35Mr. Greer: Unfortunately china seems to be choosing its own path on market access. They have agency in this. They elected to announce retaliation. Other countries do not. Other country signaled they would like to find a path forward on reciprocity. China has not said that and we will see where that goes. We need to work with our closest friends to make sure we have trading arrangements that work and if the chinese are open we will see -- they have not signal that at all.
▶ 0:45:05Mr. Greer: I don't think that is in the very near term with china.
▶ 0:45:07Sen. Wyden: I am just concerned there is no strategy at all. We understand in the pacific northwest what the stakes are. We have a tough strategy. I don't see any strategy at all. You've not said much about what the strategy is this morning.
▶ 0:45:24Mr. Greer: I appreciate your concern. I want to keep having a conversation about this. I see a difference between those countries who have come to us and said we understand your issues and we understand the deficit in your desire for reciprocity and we want to work with you on this, and the chinese approach which has been we are going to retaliate. We are trying to remedy a situation.
▶ 0:45:48Mr. Greer: We are trying to remedy a situation that has persisted for many years and it would be wonderful if the chinese agreed with that and wanted to work with us on that. That is not where they are. The president has recognized this.
▶ 0:45:59Sen. Wyden: Let's talk about services. United states is a services powerhouse for china -- for travel and media. Our services industry accounts for 80% of U.S. gdp and eight out of 10 american jobs. Other countries are responding to trump's global tariff by retaliating against american services. Can you explain how your tariff actions are not putting our services exports at risk like so much of your trade policy?
▶ 0:46:28Mr. Greer: Chairman crapo mentioned this. We had india pulled down the digital advertising tax that affected some of her most competitive tech companies. We are already in conversations with other cntries that if they want to have reciprocal trade with us that is something we need to consider and we expect them not to discriminate against our services companies. We have some of the most competitive in the world.
▶ 0:46:54Sen. Wyden: I wrapped up with a services question because it seems it is classic donald trump. Really good about talking about problems, even saying some reason to go forward, but pretty damn bad about fixing them and there'll be a lot of collateral damage in the process if you continue with these trade policies. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:47:21Chair Crapo: Senator cornyn?
▶ 0:47:26Sen. Cornyn: There has been a lot of discussion about tariffs but will you briefly discussed nontariff barriers to trade. In other words the barriers that countries put up to deny market access for U.S. exports into those countries that are not tariffs, per se?
▶ 0:47:48Mr. Greer: Thank you. I have in my hand a book that has become very popular. This is the national trade estimate on foreign trade barriers. The office of united states trade representative puts this together with input from civil society, unions, business, small business, this is 400 pages develop the nam -- all of the nontariff barriers you are talking about. India, huge trading partner.
▶ 0:48:19Mr. Greer: They were stripped of ethanol for fuel use by using restrictive import licenses. These are the types of border measures that do not sound very sexy to talk about and they do not make for great soundbite but these are the things that block our exports where they have licensing regimes or fake science to block our imports.
▶ 0:48:36Sen. Cornyn: One example that seems to me to make the point is that our friends in australia basically have put up barriers to the export of beef from the united states. My state, texas, happens to produce a lot of beef cattle and australia denies access to the huge market. Not as a result of tariffs so much as nontariff barriers to trade.
▶ 0:49:07Sen. Cornyn: Could you speak to that?
▶ 0:49:08Mr. Greer: Yes. It is surprising because we have a free-trade agreement with australia and we would expect fair trade. Last year we imported about $3 billion worth of australian beef we exported zero dollars american beef two australia. It is not just beef. Australia also blocks on specious fake science ground the export of U.S. pork.
▶ 0:49:34Mr. Greer: It is incredible they do this and we have zero exports of fresh and frozen U.S. pork to australia.
▶ 0:49:39Sen. Cornyn: I find it interesting people express surprise that president trump's policies when he has been talking about these policies for decades and how unfair trading arrangements are between various countries. Some of these unfair trading practices have resulted in the de-industrialization of america.
▶ 0:50:06Sen. Cornyn: We have exported manufacturing to asia and china and other countries that now appeared to be willing to hold us hostage to those supply chains. A few years ago we passed the chips and science act. We work with secretary pompeo and secretary ross during president trump's first administration and later was signed by president biden.
▶ 0:50:31Sen. Cornyn: They had semiconductor manufacturing back on shore because we recognized that the boehner ability that existed if there was another pandemic, if there was a natural disaster or heaven forbid a military conflict breakout in asia we would not have access to these advanced semi conductors that run everything from your cell phone to the avionics on an f 35 joint strike fighter.
▶ 0:50:58Sen. Cornyn: China has basically held us hostage and continues to use some of these vulnerabilities to our detriment. A critical mineral processing. Would you speak to the boehner abilities that exist as a result of china basically processing 90% of the critical minerals in the world that are essential for our daily lives?
▶ 0:51:22Mr. Greer: That figure is always one that gives me great concern. The 90% of the processing. We do have critical minerals in the united states. We have lithium and other critical minerals. A lot of it is china has centralized the process. We have in the western hemisphere all kinds of critical minerals and that is in our hemisphere.
▶ 0:51:47Mr. Greer: They get sent to china, they are processed and come here and if china wants to exercise economic coercion or other practices they have a stranglehold on these things. It is a very dangerous situation. This is part of the urgency of what we are talking about. As the trump administration takes action on trade but also on the environmental side, that is an area we can have more of that activity in the united states or we can work with our trading partners to try to incentivize production there as well.
▶ 0:52:17Sen. Cornyn: Thank you very much.
▶ 0:52:20Chair Crapo: Thank you. Senator bennet?
▶ 0:52:26Sen. Bennet: Could you talk a little bit about the relationship of the tariffs that you have put on and rising prices for the american people? What is it the american people should expect to suffer as a result in terms of rising prices? I understand your position is the long-term gain is worth the short term pain but what is the short-term pain going to look like.
▶ 0:52:51Mr. Greer: I think we can look at history and data for this. It is hard to project what will happen with prices but we know in the first trump term the president posed historic tariffs on china on an enormous amount of goods coming from china and during that time inflation went down .1%. During the biden administration historic inflation was related to services.
▶ 0:53:24Mr. Greer: There is not really a one to one on tariffs and price effects. Some things going to price. I know you probably I am dodging and weaving but I'm looking at data.
▶ 0:53:35Sen. Bennet: I know you're smart enough to know that the likelihood is prices will go up for the american people as a result of the tariffs you put in place. You disagree with that? When you say in your testimony that you expect the american people will bear the burden and I'm sure they will bear any burden on some level. What do you think that burden is going to look like?
▶ 0:54:01Mr. Greer: I think the challenges will be more for companies that are largely dependent on imports from china and asia where they have to adjust their supply chains in a quicktime. The way the turfs get allocated between the foreign producer at the importer, that is where the majority of adjustment is.
▶ 0:54:22Sen. Bennet: We have a bunch of those companies and -- we have a bunch of those companies in colorado. They probably did not want to meet to mention them but I will. They are very dependent on the supply chain from vietnam and they are probably worried today about what is going to happen, which a lot of people are.
▶ 0:54:44Sen. Bennet: One of the things about the situation we find ourselves in is the degree to which we have now created huge uncertainty in our economy and I'm worried that will result in a lack of investment, capital investment. You mentioned a new investments that have been made in our economy but I think anybody that knows anything about the economy knows uncertainty results in people freezing up or paralysis.
▶ 0:55:14Sen. Bennet: It will make it hard for our economy and may provoke a recession. Can you comment on your concerns about that and how you are thinking about that? I've one more question before I'm out of time.
▶ 0:55:24Mr. Greer: The best way to have certainty is to build in the united states. That is the best way to have certainty.
▶ 0:55:33Sen. Bennet: That will take a long time. What will happen in the meantime do you think?
▶ 0:55:40Mr. Greer: We have dillydally for years on this issue. We have done these broad studies . We have to act. I cannot sit for three years. It is an emergency.
▶ 0:55:56Sen. Bennet: You could have made a different choice which was strategically target a geography, strategically target beijing, strategically target certain industries were all industries in america were not affected. You did not make that choice.
▶ 0:56:18Sen. Bennet: You are in the midst of having trade negotiations with 90 different countries at the same time by your own testimony, all of whom can make their assessment about where the pressure points are on you, where the pressure points will come for us to not necessarily get the best deal because we are spread all over the globe negotiating everyone of these agreements at the same time rather than a more strategic approach, which would've had the
▶ 0:56:49Sen. Bennet: Benefit of giving us a much greater degree of certainty about where we were headed. Obviously you made a different choice. I am curious how you think about your response -- how you think about that.
▶ 0:57:06Mr. Greer: It is thoughtful to think about things in this way. If you look at the results of the reciprocal tariff, the western hemisphere is at the lowest tariff rates. If you look at where we have our largest problems with non-reciprocity, it is mostly in asia. Udc strategic outcome with respect to promoting production in the western hemisphere as opposed to where we have all of this overproduction in asia that has given rise to our current problems on trade.
▶ 0:57:34Sen. Bennet: I would say in closing that is true. What the ambassador said is true. I still cannot fathom why we are treating canada and mexico come our largest trading partners basically the same way we are treating beijing. It does not make any sense to me. It makes no sense to do it at the same time.
▶ 0:58:00Sen. Bennet: We'll have to stay on it which is why some of us have introduced legislation to make sure congress begins to take its appropriate role again in making these very important trade decisions. Thank you for your testimony.
▶ 0:58:14Sen. Bennet: Senator lankford --
▶ 0:58:16Chair Crapo: Senator lankford?
▶ 0:58:20Sen. Lankford: Thank you for the work you are doing. Let me come from the perspective of a lot of oklahoma farmers and ranchers and manufacturing folks and retail folks and folks that sell to retailers in oklahoma. They have several questions they have sent to me pretty quickly so want to be able to bounce a few of those. The goal of this is to do more trade internationally.
▶ 0:58:44Sen. Lankford: That the united states will be able to manufacture here or produce here and sell more internationally and we would have that opportunity for increased market access. Is that correct?
▶ 0:58:53Mr. Greer: I think that is accurate. When we are trying to get on a deficit, part of it is time to make sure we do not have too many imports driven by unfair trade practices but also promote our exports overseas.
▶ 0:59:06Sen. Lankford: Right now there a lot of negotiations, questions whether we are negotiating or not negotiating. I'm hearing from you. Clearly we are open to negotiations and trying to establish better trade agreements. You have any timeline on certain countries or places you have said internally to say we hope to have negotiations completed by this point? Negotiations to extend as long as they have to but is there a timeline you are dealing with?
▶ 0:59:32Mr. Greer: The president has indicated he is willing to negotiate with parties that want to pursue reciprocal trade with united states. We do not have any timelines set on that because as you pointed out the outcome is more important than setting something artificially. What I can say is I am moving as quickly as possible and a lot of these countries are moving quickly and we are working on the weekends, we are working at night as folks want to engage.
▶ 0:59:59Mr. Greer: I will say the trade deficit has been decades in the making and it will not be solved overnight.
▶ 1:00:07Sen. Lankford: Everyone understands that well and everyone I talked to his grateful we are attacking the trade deficit issue to try to bring down barriers to trade. They also want to get a timeline. There is an oklahoma company that several years ago spent millions of dollars to move out of china. They moved into vietnam for production because the parts were not created in america. They were looking for other places to go.
▶ 1:00:35Sen. Lankford: They spent all the money and time, shipped out of to china and got to vietnam. Now they are saying we have giant costs in vietnam at this point. They are going to have to renegotiate with every single retailer they sell to, which will take a lot of time to do. What they are trying to figure out is do we hold on this negotiations and try to renegotiate with walmart and target and costco and everybody else they want to renegotiate with or delay press on with those negotiations now? If things are going to get resolved soon they can pause.
▶ 1:01:07Sen. Lankford: If they are not going to get resolved they have to renegotiate every contract again to figure out where to go so the timepiece does matter to them.
▶ 1:01:14Mr. Greer: I understand completely. Vietnam is one of those countries that understands it is one of the major targets of this action because there trade deficit -- there trade surplus with us is so lopsided. I think for every $15 they export us we sent them one dollar and they remain close to our exports were we can be competitive. They have come to the table with an offer. They want to talk about it.
▶ 1:01:42Sen. Lankford: I do not anticipate we will ever have equal trade with vietnam. We are approved -- we are a much larger economy than they are but bringing down the trade barriers would be helpful so they would accept american products. Most countries in the world will never buy as much as we are purchasing because we purchase a lot more. Another issue has come up about garment manufacturing. Obviously this is a challenge. We do not have a lot of manufacturing in the united states.
▶ 1:02:13Sen. Lankford: Those garment manufacturers that are here, some in oklahoma are asking me about exclusions and exceptions and how this will be handled to say we cannot buy it in america, this is the only place that is actually manufacturing it. Long-term the hope is to have a more diversified but in the short-term they do not have another option. How do you plan to handle that?
▶ 1:02:34Mr. Greer: The president has been a with me and others that he does not intend to have exclusions and exemptions, especially given the nature of the action. If you have swiss cheese in the action it can undermine the overall point which is to get rid of the deficit and achieve reciprocity. To my point earlier to Mr.
▶ 1:02:55Mr. Greer: Bennet, the western hemisphere countries have a much lower tariff than many of the asian countries and I've heard from textile manufacturers that they would love to have a situation where the western hemisphere textile and garment manufacturing is more competitive and we are setting up the conditions for that.
▶ 1:03:10Sen. Lankford: In the short term there are no exemptions coming. For companies currently buying from asia, whether for textiles or whatever it may be, the goal is to push them out of asia and into the western hemisphere? Where do they need to go?
▶ 1:03:25Mr. Greer: The president has been clear he is not doing exemptions or exceptions in the near-term. By sense is given the tariff contractual's -- the tariff differentials between asia and the western hemisphere people can make decisions based on that.
▶ 1:03:43Chair Crapo: Senator whitehouse?
▶ 1:03:46Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you for being here. Tell me what a negative externality is?
▶ 1:03:52Mr. Greer: This is something you and I like to talk about. This is a situation where you have a foreign country where perhaps they have actions such as poor environmental regimes or lacks labor laws and they do not bear the cost of that. Instead they send their goods that are product of these processes where they have lacks regulatory regimes, they send it here and we end up bearing this. They externalize the negative externalities to us.
▶ 1:04:21Mr. Greer: We do not compete on a level playing field.
▶ 1:04:23Sen. Whitehouse: Two things are wrong with this. The customary negative externality is pollution. On an issue I've done a lot of work on in bipartisan fashion, plastic in our oceans. Now it is in our drinking water, we have gone down a weird pathway with respect to plastics.
▶ 1:04:51Sen. Whitehouse: If china is responsible for dumping 60% or 70% of plascs into the pacific, that is a harm to us, correct?
▶ 1:05:01Mr. Greer: I agree.
▶ 1:05:04Sen. Whitehouse: Because it is a common ocean and we suffer from that. If the chinese companies exporting their goods to the U.S., and that chinese company has a lower cost for its product because it does not have proper pollution control with respect to plastic in the U.S. company does, then that is an unfair trade imbalance, correct?
▶ 1:05:30Mr. Greer: I agree with that.
▶ 1:05:33Sen. Whitehouse: Two things are wrong when we get into the situation of foreign countries allowing pollution that our companies pay to prevent.
▶ 1:05:44Mr. Greer: That is right.
▶ 1:05:46Sen. Whitehouse: And that is an appropriate place for tariffs to be deployed to offset that trade imbalance and help protect the commons from this particular tragedy, correct?
▶ 1:05:59Mr. Greer: I think trade action can be appropriate and when the president announced his reciprocal tariff regime last wednesday he referred to pollution by other countries in his speech. He may not have listened. You may want to listen to that part.
▶ 1:06:13Sen. Whitehouse: It might be the only place in which the missed ration shows the slightest interest in pollution so good for that. The issue of plastics is pretty significant. There's been a lot of bipartisan interest.
▶ 1:06:34Sen. Whitehouse: I even went up to the oval office during trump one to have one of my bills signed by the president and he gave a very animated riff on asian countries polluting our beautiful oceans and how it comes ashore very often in alaska by the ton along their beaches. I hope this is an area where we can continue to work together. In particular I hope you will sit down with me and senator cassidy on legislation we are working on.
▶ 1:07:05Sen. Whitehouse: Will you give us that meeting?
▶ 1:07:06Mr. Greer: I will take any meeting with you you would like to talk about this issue.
▶ 1:07:11Sen. Whitehouse: We will sit down with senator cassidy's team and have a conversation. The other thing I wanted to flag is that you pretty well successfully to flatted all of senator bennet's questions about what the immediate impact looks like in the short term pain for the long-term gain. I want to flag for you one issue that is very important to me. Rhode island is a small business state.
▶ 1:07:40Sen. Whitehouse: We do not have a lot of big corporations there who can balance things and move things around. Canada is our largest trading partner. We have companies who fill an important niche in the global supply chain, particularly in american companies supply chains because they get something from canada or china. Canada is our major trading partner. They process that thing.
▶ 1:08:12Sen. Whitehouse: Then they put it into the supply chain for the larger corporate entities. That is their business. That is all they have got. If we are not looking out for these small businesses there actually going to have to lock their doors and close their shutters and fire their employees and go out of business, I think you've missed a huge hole in the problem these tariffs have created.
▶ 1:08:42Sen. Whitehouse: If all you are listening to is the megacorporations who can move things around the world and have the resources to dodge these effects, you're not getting the straight story. I think everyone of our states there will be small businesses that occupy a niche in which trade is an important factor and will go bust because of these tariffs. I urge you to look out for those businesses because I do not think they're getting their voices heard at all.
▶ 1:09:09Mr. Greer: I have talked to you about this. I've talked to senator hassan about this. I asked my team to convene a meeting, I have a trade advice counsel for small business. I've asked them to convene that meeting. I've connected with the small business administration. I have an office that also deals with small business because I want to hear it. They do not have the same voices in washington.
▶ 1:09:37Mr. Greer: Right now canada and mexico things that comply with united states mexican indicated agreement if they follow the rules -- if they do not follow the rules and try to put in chinese stuff that will be tariff, but if they do follow the rules they will be getting duty free trade.
▶ 1:09:53Sen. Whitehouse: Small businesses that have gone broke are not very amenable to a meeting.
▶ 1:09:58Chair Crapo: Sen. hassan?
▶ 1:10:04Sen. Hassan: Thank you for being here. Before I start with additional questions about the impact of these tariffs I want to associate myself with senator whitehouse comments just now about the impact on our small businesses, critically those who are critical parts of supply chains for some of our larger corporations in the country.
▶ 1:10:27Sen. Hassan: As you know canada is our biggest trading partner and we are already seeing the impact of these tariffs with our small businesses, especially in our tourism industry which is being decimated because canadians are not coming down to new hampshire the way they usually do. Let me ask you about a couple of other things. President trump's tariffs have made almost everything families buy more expensive.
▶ 1:10:55Sen. Hassan: The president imposed a 10% national sales tax on all imports into our country and a higher sales tax on imports from more than 50 countries including our allies like canada. This is the largest tax increase in over half a century and it will cost the average american family $3800 a year. Their morning cup of coffee will cost more, civil new shoes for their kids in civil fresh fruit. My question to you -- and so will fresh fruit.
▶ 1:11:24Sen. Hassan: My question is how much revenue from the president's national sales tax will be used to give tax breaks to billionaires?
▶ 1:11:30Mr. Greer: As you know any kind of tariff revenue that comes into the united states government goes to the treasury and congress will decide what happens to that money. Obviously the president wants to have a very competitive tax policy that is good for everybody. That is part of why he had such a successful economy in the first term because he married trade policy -- $7,000 in increased real wages.
▶ 1:11:54Sen. Hassan: Let's be clear. Besides the contradictions in the way he talks about the purpose of his tariffs, the president has made clear he sees tariffs as a way of increasing revenue at the same time he is working with the majority in congress to give additional tax breaks to the wealthiest people in the country at the expense of working people who will be paying more for everyday goods, goods they have to pay.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. Hassan: Goods they were hoping were going to cost less given the president's campaign promises. Of course he is not keeping to those campaign promises as prices go up. The president's national sales tax is increasing prices for families and also causing huge losses in americans retirement savings. Ambassador greer, will the administration reversed course if the president's tariffs lead to 10% inflation?
▶ 1:12:48Mr. Greer: The president is fixed in purpose. This trade deficit and the off shoring and loss of manufacturing jobs is something that has persisted for too long and is dangerous.
▶ 1:12:59Sen. Hassan: I understand your justification for the policy even though their contradictory justifications coming out of the ministration. My question is what is the inflation rate where you would reverse course? 10% inflation is higher inflation than we saw at the peak of the covid economic crisis. You're not going to say today you would reverse course even if you created inflation as high as we had at the peak of the covid economic crisis?
▶ 1:13:28Mr. Greer: I think the most serious inflation we saw was during the biden administration. When we did tariffs in the first term inflation went down. It will not be a one to one.
▶ 1:13:40Sen. Hassan: Let's be really clear. The trump administration is here to say even if inflation hits americans pocketbooks at 10% because of these tariffs, then they trump administration is still going to go charging ahead. Will the ministration reverse course if the tariffs caused a 50% stock market crash, which would hurt americans retirement savings even more than they have been hurt in the last 10 days or so?
▶ 1:14:09Mr. Greer: The fundamentals of the economy are so strong. We had 228,000 jobs last month. We have 9000 additional manufacturing jobs.
▶ 1:14:19Sen. Hassan: Your answer is even if the stock market crashes 50%, which is how much the stock market crashed in the great recession, you will not say he would reverse course even if you crash the stock market and harmed retirement savings as drastically as happened during the great recession in 2007?
▶ 1:14:39Mr. Greer: Mr. greer: your hypots are not consistent.
▶ 1:14:45Sen. Hassan: They are based on the fact that a lot of americans are looking at 401(k)s today and wondering how much of a lifestyle change they are going cap to have or whether they will be able to retire when they plan to because of the recklessness and haphazard nature of the trump administration's position of tariffs. Nothing was thought out about this. This has been a haphazard, incompetent effort and it has shown. Thank you.
▶ 1:15:10Chair Crapo: Senator cassidy.
▶ 1:15:15Sen. Cassidy: Thank you for being here, Mr. greer. When I speak to my rice and shrimp people back home, they say the tariff barriers and the subsidies by other countries for those products are so much that it is putting some of our shrimpers and some of our rice people either out of business or incredible financial bynes. -- binds.
▶ 1:15:50Sen. Cassidy: I also hear from my producers that the mean tariff being selected to apply to a country and I account for rice for example the tariff is much higher for that particular product and it is not adequate to address that which is taken place. Any thoughts on that and how we have something more particular for products that are really over tariffed? 1
▶ 1:16:18Mr. Greer: I appreciate that concern. It was a countrywide rate, not product-specific. My senses if countries come to us and expect to have some kind of a different plan, they will need to change these things and they will have specific products, specific barriers they would have to address. The president -- again, he wants to sue production here, our agricultural reducers doing well.
▶ 1:16:48Mr. Greer: These countries had to have separable trade with us and that means taking care of the type of barriers and tariff rates are talking about.
▶ 1:16:52Sen. Cassidy: It sounds like one of the things you want to know is since shrimp might be a relatively small part of trade with some of these countries that the interest of, for example, shrimp will not be sacrificed in part of a greater whole?
▶ 1:17:04Mr. Greer: I saw a really interesting article in "the new york times" where the tariffs have given a bit of a lifeline to these shrimpers. If there is going to be in a kind of change to any of this, and I am not going to prejudge that, we have to make sure our industries are protected adequately so we don't go backwards with the deficit.
▶ 1:17:28Sen. Cassidy: In the president's america first trading policy, several sections are related to free-trade agreements and how they will be evaluated. Senator bennet and I are working on a hemispheric trade policy which we have several purposes. One, strengthen those ties. Secondly, keep the chinese for making the incursions they are absolutely making throughout the hemisphere. Some are calling the caribbean a chinese lake. This would allow us to push back upon that.
▶ 1:17:59Sen. Cassidy: Can you share anything regarding the analyses of the free-trade agreements we have within our hemisphere and specifically on countries like argentina who would like an fta with our country?
▶ 1:18:12Mr. Greer: Certainly. I would say we are first and foremost focused on addressing this emergency and reciprocal tariff action and implementing it appropriately. With respect to relations in the hemisphere, any kind of trade arrangements with these trading partners I think need to be coupled with strong rules about third countries.
▶ 1:18:33Mr. Greer: But I don't want is a situation where these countries are using their export platforms to incorporate content goods from china or other asian countries who have a real issue with our deficit and offshore manufacturing. I would expect any kind of changes to these arrangements to be accompanied by changing the rules of origin to ensure the united states and U.S. workers are really benefiting from these agreements.
▶ 1:18:58Sen. Cassidy: With the specific of where it is being used or circumvent the intent of the fta is a concern of the administration?
▶ 1:19:03Mr. Greer: Yes, that is a huge concern. The president wants to see factories back here. If people want to use other countries and insist on that, then we want to make sure they are using that to arbitrage for higher tariff jurisdictions, to use them as an unfair platform.
▶ 1:19:23Sen. Cassidy: Louisiana has some of the largest ports. All the commodities going from the midwest throw through -- flow through my state going out to the world. Ustr proposed imposing like $1 million for every vessel built in china. I'm told if the koreans have a fleet of 50 and five of the ships are built in china, then the $1 million would apply to all 50 not just to the ships built in china.
▶ 1:19:52Sen. Cassidy: That would clearly impact a ship coming to the united states to offload. If you will come impact my ports and the ability of our good throughout the nation to move through the mississippi. Is ustr going to hang by that were considering modifying that? Can you give us any idea about that?
▶ 1:20:10Mr. Greer: To address the lack of shipbuilding in the united states, ustr proposed actions are just those, proposed actions . A series of potential remedies that can be used to incentivize shipbuilding in the U.S. they're not all going to be implemented. We have asked for input. We have had a hearing on that and collected comments.
▶ 1:20:29Mr. Greer: I have met with certain stakeholders during that time period and I think the president will look very carefully to make sure we have the right amount of time and incentives to create shipbuilding here without impacting our commodity exports.
▶ 1:20:43Chair Crapo: Senator cortez masto.
▶ 1:20:48Sen. Cortez Masto: Ambassador come as ustr's chief of staff in the first trump administration, oversaw the negotiation at the U.S.-mexico-canada negotiation. President trump signed these agreements. He called the usmca a colossal victory. And the other historic milestone.
▶ 1:21:18Sen. Cortez Masto: And yet with president trump's new blanket tariffs, he is ripping up these agreements with our allies that we negotiated with. Why would any country want to do business with us much less negotiate a trade deal if we don't even honor our ongoing agreements?
▶ 1:21:38Mr. Greer: Senator, we are the consumer of last resort. These countries have to sell here. Many of them, especially asia, have built their entire economies around exporting to us. They are dependent on it. That is part of what we have this huge trade deficit. Usmca, parties can enjoy duty free-trade for many of the products that continue to be -- comply with the rules that were set out five years ago.
▶ 1:22:04Mr. Greer: There is a big concern, senator, we did not have adequate other protections to stop the flow, particularly of autos come into the U.S.
▶ 1:22:14Sen. Cortez Masto: But there is something we discussed in my office. It wasn't to do blanket tariffs. Let me -- you should be honest. At least as you sit here come as you were in my office, be until actually honest. Let me ask this because this is also true. I appreciate my senator lankford asking this postop time matters. How long did it take to negotiate usmca you are part of?
▶ 1:22:43Mr. Greer: Break speed, two years.
▶ 1:22:47Sen. Cortez Masto: And now you're telling us you have nearly 50 countries coming to you come approaching you to enter negotiation and you think you can do that overnight? Man, you are superhuman here if that is the case. Let's be realistic.
▶ 1:23:04Sen. Cortez Masto: Common sense and realism, ambassador come as you sit before us. Let me talk about something else that is really important for my state and I think the entire country because this administration is forgetting that we have a billion-dollar economy when it comes to tourism into the united states. People know las vegas. My state is nevada.
▶ 1:23:31Sen. Cortez Masto: We rely on tourism to our state and now we are seeing an impact because of these tariffs not just from canada but I am hearing from so many that are in the tourism and leisure industry. We are seeing impacts because now this billion-dollar industry of international tourism is having an impact on our economy. This is a service industry.
▶ 1:23:56Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me just say this, I am kind of offended by your testimony today that says we must accept self-inflicted economic pain "to become an economy based on producing real goods and services." what does that mean? What does that mean to every service industry across this country that relies on tourism and travel that is the backbone, really, of our billion-dollar economy? What do I tell them, they just have to suck it up?
▶ 1:24:25Sen. Cortez Masto: They are not part of the real services, that you have another idea for the jobs they should engage in? Mr. greer: of course those are real services.
▶ 1:24:35Sen. Cortez Masto: What are you doing about the impact of international tourism and now these blanket tariffs having a negative impact?
▶ 1:24:40Mr. Greer: The whole sentence had we need to get away from government spending as funding our economy and financial is asian and moved to real goods and service has come including the tourism you're talking about.
▶ 1:24:51Sen. Cortez Masto: What are you doing to impact the negative impact on tourism?
▶ 1:24:54Mr. Greer: We can't have the status quo. Essentially what I'm hearing is we should have the status quo, keep the $1.2 trillion trade deficit that biden left us. I don't think that is adequate.
▶ 1:25:07Sen. Cortez Masto: What are you doing in this administration to address now the impact that you are having with these blanket tariffs -- not targeted tariffs -- like it tariffs on international tourism that is a big impact to our economy?
▶ 1:25:18Mr. Greer: Senator, as we are talking to all of these countries, we are talking about services. We are talking about making sure we can export services to other countries. A lot of those we export our digital services.
▶ 1:25:34Sen. Cortez Masto: Apparently you are not. You haven't thought about this and the administration hasn't really thought about it because I've have not heard anybody talking about tourism. Why don't you come talk to me in my office and let's talk about and put a plan together because these blanket tariffs are having an impact on tourism in my state and across the country.
▶ 1:25:56Sen. Cortez Masto: Instead of just defending it, why don't you just come sit down with some of us and try to address the concerns that we are seeing and feeling in our states that this administration has not taken into account.
▶ 1:26:06Mr. Greer: I am happy to come speak with you.
▶ 1:26:10Chair Crapo: Senator grassley.
▶ 1:26:16Sen. Grassley: Mr. greer, thank you for being here. I've made clear throughout my public service that I am a free and fair trader. The constitution gives congress the authority to regularly interstate for commas -- foreign commerce. I believe congress delegated too much authority to the president in trade expansion acts 1962 and trade act of 1974.
▶ 1:26:42Sen. Grassley: That said, I support president trump's agenda to lower tariffs and none tariff barriers other countries have imposed on american goods. I support president trump agenda to get a better deal from china and other countries for our farmers and manufacturers. Even back in 2003, I sent a letter to the chinese minister of commerce at that time pointing out china's failure to live up to its wto obligations.
▶ 1:27:13Sen. Grassley: Then I went further in 2018 when I was on senator daines code l. I told top chinese leaders, I made the mistake supporting china in the wto. That is why during the first trump administration I was supportive of the president's agenda to get fair trade in china. At the time, I raised alarm bells when tariffs are used.
▶ 1:27:41Sen. Grassley: We all know agriculture is usually the first place of retaliation. In response to chinese retaliation to tariffs, the first trump administration set up the market facilitation program for farmers which gave direct payments to farmers affected by the tariffs. This helped farmers whether the short-term impact of trade retaliation.
▶ 1:28:08Sen. Grassley: But as you know, farmers still overwhelmingly want to get their money from the marketplace and not from a government check. So far in this administration, we have seen even more sweeping tariffs with some countries already retaliating agriculture, including china. I have been very vocal in my wait and see approach to these tariffs because I believe president trump and you, Mr.
▶ 1:28:37Sen. Grassley: Ambassador, are using them to get fair trade for americans with many countries. If that is not the case, level with me. So to help farmers in the meantime, instead of relying on payments from the government, I am going to give a suggestion that you don't have much to do with but the administration could move very quickly to increase our videos -- rbo's so farmers get more robust domestic
▶ 1:29:10Sen. Grassley: Markets for their crops. One place to start would be where the biden administration came up short with rbo's three year period of time on biodiesel to make that 5.3 as far as you can see into the future. That would very dramatically increase soybean prices.
▶ 1:29:42Sen. Grassley: So my question to you is, in the medium, to the long term, do you plan to turn these tariffs into trade deals to reduce tariffs and nontariff barriers? I support that. On the other hand, if the purpose is to stall on negotiations in order to keep tariffs high for the sole purpose of feeding the U.S. treasury, I oppose that.
▶ 1:30:11Sen. Grassley: So is this administration for trade reciprocity or for treasury replenishment?
▶ 1:30:17Mr. Greer: Senator, thank you. Thank you for your years of service on the trade space and you are one of the deans in this area. It is important to understand the sense of the emergency we are facing an urgency with the need to reassure into manufacturing here. It is incredibly important to the president.
▶ 1:30:37Mr. Greer: Yesterday he stated clearly he is happy to engage in negotiations immediately with countries that believe they can help us reduce our deficit and get rid of the nontariff barriers and the tariffs that affect that. I think the answer is it is going to be country by country. There will be some countries where they are not able to address the nontariff barriers, and there will be others who I think will be able to do that and where the president will have the option of making a deal with them. We are certainly seeking reciprocity now.
▶ 1:31:07Mr. Greer: If we have to tariff on a country, there will be revenue effect but we need to restore manufacturing, get rid of our agricultural deficit, and make sure if countries are going to trade with us it has to be on a reciprocal basis.
▶ 1:31:21Chair Crapo: Senator cantwell.
▶ 1:31:24Sen. Cantwell: And Mr. greer, good to see you. You and I have had many conversations about trade. I think my question this morning starts with the consultation that congress deserves on trade issues from the trade ambassador. What did the trump administration do to prepare us to communicate with us, to tell us about findings as it relates to these emergency orders by the president?
▶ 1:31:51Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator. As you know, I find consultation requirements very important as a matter of good practice. Our staff, ustr staff, in the past events we have been in office, have had over 200 formal engagements with staff on the hill, in the senate and the house, the day of the reciprocal trade announcement we had our staff also up here briefing or staff.
▶ 1:32:20Mr. Greer: We also had a prison issue very publicly his america first rate policy memorandum, which specifically said he was going to look into the trade deficit and the possibility of tariffs.
▶ 1:32:30Sen. Cantwell: We have wreaked havoc on the economy by having one of the largest drops in the market. We have people's 401(k) and panic. We have retail organizations like the retail industry of the national retail federation, american apparel industry, outdoor association, consumer technology, computer munication's industry, main street alliance, small business majority all anxious, asking us to do something and you are saying, well, some people passed some notes to staff.
▶ 1:33:02Sen. Cantwell: What the requirement is -- and this is where I believe the president has mis-constructed and actually exploited this authority -- not communicated to us nor these interest groups that are now panicked over effective tariffs. I would say the skill set of a ustr office or even a treasury secretary could have opened these conversations with these countries without the tariffs. And saved a lot of people a lot of pain and anguish.
▶ 1:33:32Sen. Cantwell: I worry this trust issue -- because I've a different worldview that we should be building alliances as a way to counter china, that the alliance building process now will become harder and people are going to wonder, well, is the united states going to pull another fast one again and just wreak havoc when in reality countering china with tech nato or something like that is a more powerful tool? Do you have a comment?
▶ 1:33:58Mr. Greer: I do. I think we need to be thoughtful about this. I think what we can't do is wait. We have had many, many times in the past decades when we have had real robust trade disputes with our partners. Japan and the 1980's and early 1990's over cars, semiconductors. They resort a lot of those factories here and did not make us less of a security partner with japan. I think we can have conversations like friends do.
▶ 1:34:27Mr. Greer: That is with the president said yesterday. China is taking a different path -- .
▶ 1:34:34Sen. Cantwell: I only have five men is -- five minutes. We are thoughtful people with specific issues about our constituencies. I just met with raspberry growers, they are concerned. They want to know if they're going to get a seat on a council so they can have their issues -- I represent trade. I represent a trade economy. I represent the success of what innovation in trade gets you.
▶ 1:34:59Sen. Cantwell: But you are coming here this morning with this not only tanking of the market and for a one's, now you are telling me that tariff is the tool and I'm telling you innovation is the tool. You are telling us in your testimony you want a tariff on semiconductors. I'm saying the last administration and this organization here pass the chips and signs act so we could reassure -- we could restore semiconductors here in the united states.
▶ 1:35:26Sen. Cantwell: You are not going to win by tariffing semiconductors and reshoring that. I'm not trying to get the semi conductor -- I want a lead on next-generation semi manufacturing because I'm pretty sure I'm sitting next to the intel ranking member here who is going to tell me if we don't lead on semi conductor manufacturing and semi conductor next-generation technology, then we are not going to be leading in defense or in ai or anything.
▶ 1:35:55Sen. Cantwell: I want to innovate my way to that future and I want to use the alliance power of different countries to force china and other people to follow us instead of this parading of the american consumer who has to pay the price for this policy.
▶ 1:36:11Mr. Greer: Tsmc has announced a new announcement where they are going to have more investment here in the united states.
▶ 1:36:19Sen. Cantwell: Thank you the people who voted for the chips and signs act in a pesto administration. Thank you for that. We are going to lead on innovation despite this administration.
▶ 1:36:29Chair Crapo: Senator warner.
▶ 1:36:34Sen. Warner: Good to see you. First of all let me completely agree with senator cantwell. I just don't get it. The fact on semiconductors while you gave a small exemption, you did not exempt gp use, --g g pu's. You put a large hit on taiwan.
▶ 1:37:01Sen. Warner: Where we need collaboration with tsmc. I am baffled. You're going to hear from you what I am sure your hearing for most of us, incredulous about I think probably the worst economic policies that I have seen in my lifetime. The data reflects that. Global tariff of 10% to 50% on almost every worldwide country.
▶ 1:37:27Sen. Warner: Although, I will note from my republican colleagues, will probably be glad to know that russia did not get a tariff increase. I believe when all of these global tariffs go into effect, most I think at midnight tonight, the tariff rate will be a proximally 23%, the highest since 1909. Translate into the largest tax increase since 1938. About $4000 per family cost.
▶ 1:38:00Sen. Warner: Since inauguration day, more than $11 trillion have vanished from the market. I will acknowledge we got a little blip today. I just talked to senior folks on wall street and describe today's market as a good day in hospice. I would not use his name because there are no good days in hospice. At that is kind of how I feel.
▶ 1:38:27Sen. Warner: Again, I know you guys are supposed to know more than all of wall street but when every firm says we are going to see increased chance of recession, and I think you are a smart guy but I don't think just because this is the way donald trump wants the world to be for the last 40 years he can simply will it into happening. In my state, the port of virginia, and accounts for $124 billion in trade.
▶ 1:38:58Sen. Warner: That is about 500,000 jobs. Those are all up for grabs now. 800,000 small businesses. These tariffs are going to wallop them. Last week I had a guy from a local brewery in alexandria, his name is bill, he has got a triple whammy. He gets his pilsner from canada, his bottle caps from mexico, his kegs from germany.
▶ 1:39:30Sen. Warner: So already even advance of these I'll kick in at midnight tonight , he has laid off 10% of his staff. Even if the president flips on this come he is not bringing folks back. Candidly, I'd another guy in from -- I had another guy in who makes bourbon is also like to canada. He thinks it will be a cold day in hell before canadian start buying american bourbon again simply because our trust relationship has been broken.
▶ 1:40:00Sen. Warner: I guess the first question -- I'm trying to figure out what would be a question that maybe folks haven't asked. Australia is one of our strongest allies. We have the aucus relationship that is key to our industrial base so we can continue to build subs. Terribly important. With australia, we have a free-trade agreement. We don't have tariffs.
▶ 1:40:32Sen. Warner: We even have one of the few industrial countries we have a surplus. And Mr. greer, can you explain to me how it helps america's national security or our trading balance when we have -- I loved your fancy greek formula which was basically bad math on steroids formula -- with the trade surplus, with the strong relationship australia got hit with a 10% tariff as well?
▶ 1:41:00Mr. Greer: Senator kim australia has the lowest rate available under the new program.
▶ 1:41:07Sen. Warner: Excuse me, there is a trade -- we already have a free-trade agreement. We have a trade surplus. So getting the least bad, why did they get whacked in the first place?
▶ 1:41:19Mr. Greer: We are addressing the $1.2 tllion deficit come the largest in history that president biden left us with. We should be running up the score --.
▶ 1:41:28Sen. Warner: Answer the question. We have a trade surplus with australia. We have a free-trade agreement. They are incredibly important national security partner. Why were they whacked with the tariff?
▶ 1:41:41Mr. Greer: Theyban our beef and pork and getting ready to impose measures --.
▶ 1:41:49Sen. Warner: With your greek letter formula, the fact we have a trade surplus --.
▶ 1:41:53Mr. Greer: We are trying to address the deficit that by left us with.
▶ 1:41:59Sen. Warner: I think that answer -- sir, you are much smarter person than that answer. The idea we are going to whack friend and foe alike, particularly friends, with this level is both I think insulting the australians come undermines our national security, and excess not a good partner on forward. The lack of trust from friends and allies based upon this ridiculous policy that goes into full effect at midnight tonight is extraordinary.
▶ 1:42:30Sen. Warner: I go back to what the market believers believe today is happening, a good day in hospice. I am afraid if we keep these tariffs in effect, we are looking like an economy that will be in hospice. Thank you.
▶ 1:42:42Chair Crapo: Senator daines.
▶ 1:42:44Sen. Daines: Ambassador greer, welcome to capitol hill. I share the president's determination to end these unfair trade practices whether they are tariffs or nontariff barriers. I hope we can avoid an all-out trade war. A trade war will mean higher prices for the american consumer because -- we could do a little thought exercise, who pays these high tariffs?
▶ 1:43:16Sen. Daines: Short medium term, it will be the consumer. The consumer. I'm worried about the inflationary effect. Worried if there is a trade war, we will have markets shutting down for american farmers, ranchers, manufacturers. I will give you an example in a moment. But I am encouraged because the president's announcement has gotten the attention of a lot of countries.
▶ 1:43:41Sen. Daines: I would courage to see keven hassett this morning talk about negotiation, looking at president trump's latest post on true social come the fact we have got koreans now coming to the united states literally dispatched to engage with us to lower these barriers, tariff and nontariff, the japanese and some 70 countries now that want to come and work and address the issues of the barriers for american companies and american
▶ 1:44:13Sen. Daines: Producers doing business in their country. 95% of the world's consumers outside the united states are critically important. This is very encouraging. I think that is in part while we are seeing the equity markets because there is hope these tariffs are means and not solely an end. If that is the case, I think we are on a really good path with this tough position we are taking to actually solve some of these problems and barriers on trade that have been lingering for decades.
▶ 1:44:45Sen. Daines: President trump is taking bold leadership to address it and I'm hoping for a good outcome. My hope is this is a sign of things to come, that these countries will offer major concessions and make historic trade deals with president trump.
▶ 1:45:06Sen. Daines: Ambassador greer, I encourage the administration, I encourage you to use this opportunity to secure better terms with our partners, with our allies, to protect and grow american jobs, to grow access for american farmers, ranchers, our manufacturers, and american families. Three weeks ago, I was in hanoi and met with the highest ranking official in vietnam.
▶ 1:45:35Sen. Daines: Then I went to beijing and met with high-ranking chinese officials, including the premier. I carried president trump's america first message directly to these leaders. I spoke with the premier and demanded that china stop the flow of the fentanyl precursors into mexico, united states, and canada.
▶ 1:46:01Sen. Daines: I raised concerns about the relevance related to expiration of registration for be processing, plants here in the united states, and some non-science-based barriers which has impacted montana and U.S. beef exports. I want to remind you that in 2017, I went to china and carried some steaks from a montana rancher fred wacker of miles city, montana.
▶ 1:46:31Sen. Daines: We met with the premier. I had one of your predecessors rob horton -- rob portman with me and senator barrasso with me, senator kennedy with me. As a result of that meeting, 30 days later, they lifted a 14 year ban on U.S. beef imports into china. Let me talk about what that is meant so far. This is the largest beat export market in the world is now china . For U.S.
▶ 1:46:58Sen. Daines: Producers of beef in 2021, we shipped $1.6 billion of beef. Keep in mind, the 2017 number was $31 million. 2.1 billion dollars in 2022. $1.6 billion in 2023. One point $6 billion in 2024. Here's a concern. That has been shut off down in the last three weeks. March exports of beef china, U.S.
▶ 1:47:24Sen. Daines: Beef, declined 92% will stop so the valve is shut right now for U.S. beef producers. My question is, what can we do to hold china's commitment to U.S. beef and other ag imports which are so critical right now previous producers?
▶ 1:47:45Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator. You've always been a leader on this and I appreciate that. China of course needs to take down their barriers. It is been a persistent challenge with them. They like to use economic coercion and they have their own method of doing things. My hope would be they turned back on this course of action. I think president trump's focus on making sure we have the right program in place, that we are dealing with partners who are going to be respectful and achieve reciprocity with us.
▶ 1:48:15Mr. Greer: I think a lot of this will be up to the chinese on how for cleaning they want to be on having fair trade with us. I'm very sensitive to this issue and want to make sure we opened up beef markets other places, too, so we don't have to be dependent on just one market.
▶ 1:48:30Sen. Daines: I am encouraged by the negotiations going on as we speak with japan, korea, with some 70 countries who want to now reduce their tariffs and nontariff barriers. This could be a monumental moment in trade for the united states. Godspeed.
▶ 1:48:47Chair Crapo: I think my colleagues. Next is senator young.
▶ 1:48:55Sen. Young: Good to have you here, ambassador. Let me begin by commending you. You have been very accessible as we have tried to get some clarity on exactly trade policy and where we are headed and how we expect counterparties to move and all the rest. You returned my phone call immediately and your team has been in touch with mine. That speaks very well of you and the trump administration.
▶ 1:49:25Sen. Young: Because this is creating some anxiety, this current tariff posture among some of my constituents. On balance I would say most of my constituents or supportive and they recognize some turbulence might be required in order to end up in a better spot and reset trade relations.
▶ 1:49:48Sen. Young: I think one of the things -- I am hearing from constituents back home is trade retaliation doesn't fall on everyone evenly. It has a different impact on a new york tech firm that might have on a hoosier soybean farmer.
▶ 1:50:06Sen. Young: I hope that is something that is being factored into your analysis as you think about how foreign countermeasures could impact the american economy generally and then in terms of particular sectors and parts of the country. Unpacking those trade-offs for the american people I think is going to be very important moving forward.
▶ 1:50:34Sen. Young: In indiana, rural communities, export driven-manufacturers oftentimes feel the consequences and feel the consequences first. Ambassador greer, is ustr actively mapping out which sectors and regions are going to bear the brunt of certain retaliatory measures and thinking about contingency plans?
▶ 1:50:57Mr. Greer: Senator, thank you for your concern. I know this is something we all watch. I watch very closely most stop the president watches it whenever there is any kind of announcement of retaliation, we look at it closely, look at the tariff lines, look at what might get hit.
▶ 1:51:14Mr. Greer: The good news is so far most countries have said they are not going to retaliate on this and they would like to see to talk to us to do to us to -- that is what most countries have chosen to do.
▶ 1:51:32Mr. Greer: My sense is if there are some countries that choose to retaliate regardless of our need to address this emergency, our hope and expectation is that countries will do what they have said -- which is bring down their tariffs and nontariff barriers to provide better markets and alternative locations.
▶ 1:51:48Sen. Young: As I communicate some of the impacts of my stay to your office and as I know you and your team reviewed this, I hope you will keep those considerations in mind as you develop your negotiation priorities.
▶ 1:52:04Mr. Greer: We certainly will and look forward to continued elaboration with you.
▶ 1:52:08Sen. Young: In other areas of federal policy, we have clear metrics or criteria to measure success. We do it in social policy, we do it with respect to education policy and test scores. We do it in defense policy. We try and measure readiness through various metrics.
▶ 1:52:32Sen. Young: But in trade policy, especially tariffs, we seem to lack a clear set of metrics and feedback loop. Does ustr have a formal process to evaluate whether these tariffs are actually achieving their goals? Whether that isresho -- whether that is reshoring or reciprocity, so metrics associated with that. I will let you speak to that.
▶ 1:52:59Mr. Greer: Senator, as we have stated, the underlying basis for this action is the national emergency rising from the trade deficit. President biden left us with $1.2 trillion trade deficit we understand and know to be driven at least in large part by none reciprocity.
▶ 1:53:18Mr. Greer: When we are looking at whether that emergency is being affected, as we are looking at outcomes, certainly if parties of other countries are bringing in their tariffs and nontariff barriers, that is a good indication -- also want to make sure the trade deficit is going the right direction. That means we have better access , we can export more to these other markets. But it also means they are not using this as a dumping ground for the overproduction or subsidize products. I think it goes both ways.
▶ 1:53:48Mr. Greer: It is a country by country analysis. We are looking at it case-by-case. They talk to us on a country specific basis where we can articulate whether trade barriers are. Whether nonreciprocal tariff rates are and what we expect in terms of fair trade.
▶ 1:54:04Sen. Young: Thank you. I am over time. It is amazing how quickly we go through this, which is why I really appreciate that direct line to you and your team. I should also mention we heard from secretary bessent to discuss tariffs the other day as well. We will be in touch. We want to work with you on critical minerals policy, digital trade policy, and many other areas that I know are your priorities as well and president trump's priorities.
▶ 1:54:31Sen. Young: Thank you for your ongoing efforts to bring more clarity to the markets and to our businesses and farmers so that we know exactly what lies ahead. Thank you.
▶ 1:54:42Chair Crapo: Sen. johnson:.
▶ 1:54:46Sen. Johnson: Welcome. You are hearing a fair amount of agreement from the finance committee here. First of all I think there is agreement that we recognize that america has been very generous in opening up our markets, trading partners have taken advantage of us. We don't have fair trade. But you're also hearing we -- our constituents relying on trade. They are going to be harmed by it. I handed you 10 case studies.
▶ 1:55:16Sen. Johnson: For the 10 or willing to go public, probably got another 50 that were concerned if they went public they may not get the exclusions now. I am somewhat disappointed to hear exclusions of some of these things are being ruled out at this point in time.
▶ 1:55:34Sen. Johnson: Very specific situations that I think you ought to consider exclusions for because I don't often agree with the members on the aisle, but many cases here today, particularly concerned about small businesses in their states, I am hoping -- I hope you and the president are sensitive about companies potentially going bankrupt by these actions. We want fair trade but I hope you recognize tariffs are double-edged sword.
▶ 1:56:04Sen. Johnson: I would argue a somewhat blunt instrument. The question I have for you, there is no doubt we have offshored some crucial products. Pharmaceuticals, high-end semiconductors, rare earth minerals. You have a list of what those products are that we must in some way shape or form reshore?
▶ 1:56:29Mr. Greer: Thank you, senator. I appreciate the communication we have had and I have received your letters and will take a close look at those to make sure we are incorporating feedback as we develop the policy. You will note in the action we took last week that there are certain sectors that we excluded from the tariff action because we think they need their own investigation and consideration whether it comes in tariffs or other actions and this includes semiconductors, pharmaceuticals, certain metals like copper and
▶ 1:57:00Mr. Greer: Critical minerals. These are areas where we have to reshore. We need to be able to think about the best way to incentivize this. There are things we can do as the executive branch and things that congress can do, especially with the tax bill coming up. I think these are the kinds of things --.
▶ 1:57:20Sen. Johnson: You're not using with rare earth minerals? You want them brought in here because you know there crucial. Products are crucial that you are applying tariffs to.
▶ 1:57:33Mr. Greer: We are doing investigations and considering with respect to pharmaceuticals and semiconductors, the president has been clear and said several times because tariffs are a tool used to create incentives. We can't have the status quo.
▶ 1:57:48Sen. Johnson: Do you believe a trade deficit is just per se always bad?
▶ 1:57:51Mr. Greer: The situation we have is a large and persistent trade deficit. Normal economic structures in normal markets, you would have a deficit one year, surplus one year. What we have is a structural systemic --.
▶ 1:58:08Sen. Johnson: As a result come offshore crucial products? But do you want to onshore for example very high labor content products -- by the way, we are pretty low unemployment rate. I have been in manufacturing since the late 1970's. You could not hire enough people in manufacturing back then. The situation has gotten worse.
▶ 1:58:37Sen. Johnson: I would argue I am far more concerned about our budget deficit of $2 trillion -- I realize the trade deficit we have problems with that. But I think a bigger problem is we don't have enough workers. Are you factoring that into your calculation in terms of what you're trying to accomplish here? All four bringing #I'm for bringing about these crucial products we don't have national security issues with things we can't manufacture but I am -- I don't want to bring back high labor content.
▶ 1:59:07Sen. Johnson: I want to diversify our supply chain. Bad to have that all in china as we saw with certain ppe. I think trade is a win/win situation. What are your comments?
▶ 1:59:19Mr. Greer: When it comes to workers -- first of all, we have about 2 million discouraged workers and these are folks who should come off the sidelines for sure. I think the factories that are being built and will be built in the united states will leverage automation and workers. I don't think are going to have lots of -- it is not the kind of labor that is done some of these other countries. I think our folks are innovative and the newest factories use a lot of automation but also the workers who make their products at the industrial robots that contribute to the automation.
▶ 1:59:52Mr. Greer: We need to be in a situation where we have production here. We need to think not just in terms of quarterly earnings but how do we set up the american economy now, how do we deal with the emergency now to make sure we can produce far into the future?
▶ 2:00:06Mr. Greer: I would ask these case studies be entered into the record. I ask you and the president, focus on their products we need as opposed to using it as a broad instrument. There's going to be an awful lot of collateral damage of people are already feeling the pain so hope you're sensitive to that.
▶ 2:00:22Chair Crapo: Senator tillis.
▶ 2:00:25Sen. Tillis: Thank you for being here. Back in the 1990's, I was in management consulting and there was a new platform that came out there promised to transform the business industry, erp. Some of the early attempts at implemented the system proposed let's do it all at once, change the plumbing outcome and get it all in and get it done, rip the band-aid off.
▶ 2:00:53Sen. Tillis: Proved to be hugely unsuccessful. There were a lot of visible projects and the industry decided they needed to be a methodical sort of prioritization of what parts of the businesses needed to perform better sooner and how do you layer on that a comprehensive strategy. It looks like we have got a novel approach year in terms of and although primo -- I'm not an expert and won't question it.
▶ 2:01:20Sen. Tillis: I do have a question at the end of the day come the other thing management consulting we like to focus on is this concept of one throat to choke. In other words, when you are finally taking a look at her strategy, someone has to own it. You can't say it is the president or the vice president.
▶ 2:01:36Sen. Tillis: My first question you, in this scenario come the decision maker decided the all approach, obviously had to have spent time anticipating what we saw in the markets and some of the pushback back -- I'm assuming this all got gamed out because it is a novel approach and needed to be thought out, whose throat do I get to choke if this proves to be wrong?
▶ 2:01:57Mr. Greer: You can always talk to me.
▶ 2:02:02Sen. Tillis: Are you the tip of the spear? Did you propose the all primo approach?
▶ 2:02:06Mr. Greer: I would push back a little bit on this. Now we have excluded pharmaceuticals semiconductors --. It would have excluded.
▶ 2:02:20Sen. Tillis: We know section 232 is still aluminum, section 301 as chinese imports where there is no other provider. I overheard you say maybe or I thought I heard you say in response to another question, for the near term there will be in exclusions. Is that she rue of china where they have said the U.S. is unilaterally bullying and completely groundless so they will fight to the end?
▶ 2:02:44Sen. Tillis: Are the 232 and 301 tariffs exclusions on the shelves until we get to reasonable agreement with china? I'm just trying to answer question have several people in north carolina answering -- asking.
▶ 2:02:57Mr. Greer: The present is the final decision-maker and has directed there will not be in exclusions.
▶ 2:03:06Sen. Tillis: On any products only manufactured in china for the foreseeable future until china determines what the end is? Again, just trying to communicate questions. There will be no exclusions. I won't waste your time asking. Again, I'm just trying to get my head around the logic of an all primo approach. I am waiting to see it be successful.
▶ 2:03:35Sen. Tillis: It seems like we have decided to begin a trade war on all fronts. That is ok if the person who thought this through has an answer for why you go after partners that we have a very long storied relationship with, maybe we give some developing countries a break because we're trying to actually get their economies functioning, make a look to the west versus chinese investment.
▶ 2:04:03Sen. Tillis: It just seems like I'm getting my head around the all primo approach. I'm not condemning it because I'm not a trade export. I understand you are the trade Rep. so if you own this decision, I will look to you to figure out if we're going to be successful. If you don't on the -- I'm just trying to figure out whose throat I get to choke if it is wrong and who I've put up on a platform and thank them for the novel approach if they are right.
▶ 2:04:30Sen. Tillis: Here's what -- I'm not going to ask anymore questions, I'm just going to tell you every time we talk about people having patience. We need to understand the founding fathers made damn sure that patients was never more than 14 months, really.
▶ 2:04:55Sen. Tillis: Everything we need to do to know what the political environment is going to be about next year, it has got to be done by february of next year. In your mind, do you believe that over the course of the next 14 months, we are going to have a level of certainty that the people in the trailer park that I grew up in who are going to bear the brunt of some of these short-term cost increases, maybe some job displacement for a period of time, how are they going to be feeling on groundhog
▶ 2:05:25Sen. Tillis: Day 2027 -- 2026? Do we feel like the majority of this will be resolved? I will be able to thank whoever thought the aprimo reproach worked?
▶ 2:05:37Mr. Greer: The senators who voted for the president, same situation I grew up in, same --.
▶ 2:05:46Sen. Tillis: Let me finish here. I will be 65 in august. Every day 11,400 people celebrate their 65th birthday. That is 4 million a year. The essay from 60 to 65, people are looking at their 401(k) statements. They did vote for president trump. They voted for me. I hope they will again in both cases -- maybe not the president, but I plan to read -- run for reelection. I'm trying to figure out if they are going to feel good about this.
▶ 2:06:15Sen. Tillis: Long-term play in american politics and public policy formation is about 12 months from the beginning of an administration. I wish you well but I'm skeptical. Thank you.
▶ 2:06:26Chair Crapo: Senator smith.
▶ 2:06:30Sen. Smith: Thank you. Welcome come ambassador. It seems to me president trump started a big trade war and the war is with everyone on multiple fronts come allies as well as adversaries. I think this is a little bit of what senator tillis was getting at. It feels indiscriminate and chaotic. Apparently, we're still in the early days of this. I need to tell you that minnesotans are freaked out.
▶ 2:07:02Sen. Smith: Farmers who are experiencing -- we have talked about this -- one of the worst form economies in the last 25 years, looking at lower prices and higher input costs. Minnesotans who work on the iron range, which is a source of 80% of the iron ore goes into american-made steel. They want for fair trade. But like 500 have been laid off because demand for american cars has been slumping.
▶ 2:07:30Sen. Smith: I could go on and on in every sector. Consumers are freaked out. This looks like a giant sales tax to them, retirement stock market plummeting. It is very hard for people to understand what is going on here. What I want to do is get an understanding from you of what you see as the goals of this war we are in because at various times it has been described as the goal is to raise revenue, to stop fentanyl trafficking, close trade deficits.
▶ 2:07:59Sen. Smith: Is the goal here to raise revenue for the federal treasury?
▶ 2:08:02Mr. Greer: Senator, this is not a trade war. Most countries have said they're not going to retaliate. We have an underlying emergency. The goal of the trade deficit were president by left us with the $1.2 trillion trade deficit and the goal is to address that in the off shoring that led to that in the nonreciprocal treatment that led to that. That is the goal. There is a tariff revenue effect of the countries do not do this, then they will be subject to the tariffs.
▶ 2:08:30Sen. Smith: So if the goal is to close trade deficits, then that would mean the tariffs are a negotiating tool here. Is that right?
▶ 2:08:40Mr. Greer: So the tariffs -- it can go both ways, senator. We talked about negotiations because a lot of these countries have closed off markets to our exports. They have done it for decades and nothing has persuaded them. Sitting down nicely and talking hasn't --.
▶ 2:09:01Sen. Smith: I'm all for fair trade. I am all for the idea if somebody is not trading fairly with us, if they are not giving us fair markets, then we need to have a strategy to go after that. But this is a blanket approach. It is an across-the-board approach, which is going to contribute to raising costs and that is -- it feels so chaotic to people.
▶ 2:09:24Mr. Greer: The trade deficit is a global issue. If you're trying to get the trade deficit, you can't just pick one or two country since they were going to do this and become swiss cheese. That would not be coherent. What is coherent is a global approach, global issue to take these country by country, figure out how we can address our trade deficit with him and market barriers with them. That is right approach and that is what is happening.
▶ 2:09:49Sen. Smith: As senator warner was pointing out, we have I guess a floor, 10% tariff, even with countries where we have a trade surplus. By the way, this formula the administration used to assign this so-called reciprocal tariff -- it seems so arbitrary. Where did that formula come from?
▶ 2:10:09Mr. Greer: It is straightforward and common sense. It came from white house economists. The proposed looking at a countries trade deficit is a good approximation of the net effect of the unfairness of the hired trade barriers, unfair trade practices come the dumping subsidies.
▶ 2:10:29Sen. Smith: Would you adapt that as it is based on one year and trade surplus deficits can vary from year to year. Would your plan be to change it, do you get a new yearly data? I guess that would suggest the tariffs would be in place for a long time.
▶ 2:10:44Mr. Greer: We need to assess. It becomes country by country. We have the baseline 10% to make sure there is no overcharging of different jurisdictions. These country subject to the highest rates, most have already come to talk about how to get it down. We have to take the step-by-step, country by country to address these issues. The status quo won't work anymore.
▶ 2:11:08Sen. Smith: I'm not arguing for the status quo but I am questioning the rationality of this policy that is doing -- it is so chaotic and it seems so arbitrary. Again, it seems internally inconsistent because, for example, if your goal is to onshore manufacturing, something I think many of us on this side of the dais believe strongly we need to be making things in this country again, but that would suggest these tariffs need to be in place for a very long time.
▶ 2:11:45Sen. Smith: At the same time, the administration seems to be arguing waving some of these tariffs if we could magically negotiate 50 new trade agreements with 50 different countries. I know my time is up. I wanted to ask about trade adjustment assistance which I will follow up as a question for the record. Again, I think my constituents are freaking out and I understand why.
▶ 2:12:10Chair Crapo: Senator lujan.
▶ 2:12:13Sen. Lujan: Thank you for holding this hearing. Mr. greer, it has been less than a week since president trump started what I would describe as a reckless tariff war. It certainly feels that way. Families are seeing higher costs, businesses across the country are hurting.
▶ 2:12:40Sen. Lujan: Do you believe there is currently higher costs a week after the president put these tariffs in a place?
▶ 2:12:47Mr. Greer: We haven't seen how those debts we haven't seen the data yet.
▶ 2:12:53Sen. Lujan: Jubilee businesses are hurting? -- do you believe businesses are hurting?
▶ 2:13:00Mr. Greer: I've heard from a lot of businesses. Some are varying views.
▶ 2:13:12Sen. Lujan: You probably have some of these numbers in your phone that I'm guessing my peak in your pocket. I was seeing one of the worst drops in the stock market in over 35 years?
▶ 2:13:23Mr. Greer: We have certainly seen volatility.
▶ 2:13:27Sen. Lujan: Have we seen one of the worst stops -- drops in over 35 years? We will move on if you don't want to answer.
▶ 2:13:35Mr. Greer: I'm concerned about main street.
▶ 2:13:38Sen. Lujan: Last time you were here, I asked if president trump trade were would hurt new mexico businesses and families. You dodged my question. You tell me "I can't guarantee economic outcomes." when I pressed you, you told me you want me to "does she asked me to hear from me on what the impacts of these tariffs are. Mr. greer come I'm here to tell you today the mexicans are hurting.
▶ 2:14:06Sen. Lujan: I understand you would not guarantee the new mexicans would not be heard because -- this is hurting people back home. I want to ask you the same question again. Yes or no, will president trump's tariffs harm new mexico businesses and families?
▶ 2:14:24Mr. Greer: Senator, I don't think they will. Right now you have duty free trade with canada and mexico where they comply with the rules, of U.S. -- this is designed -- I would hope this is something you find valuable. That is what we are trying to do. We are trying to incentivize production in the united states. We want north america to be competitive.
▶ 2:14:52Mr. Greer: We have foreign market access for producers and we want new mexico families and companies and communities to prosper.
▶ 2:15:00Sen. Lujan: Do you agree with president trump families are going to have to feel a little pain?
▶ 2:15:05Mr. Greer: I'm not going to speak to the president.
▶ 2:15:09Sen. Lujan: I know none of you have the courage to stand up to him, I'm asking you do you agree with what the president said about these tariffs and that people are going to have to feel a little pain? That is my question?
▶ 2:15:22Mr. Greer: If we have companies that feel pain, it is an adjustment we have to make to prepare for the future. We can't keep doing the same thing we always did. If companies are having trouble adjusting the supply chain, which I'm sensitive to, this is something -- we can't do nothing for four years.
▶ 2:15:44Sen. Lujan: Yes or no, do you agree with president trump when he said families are going to have to feel a little pain?
▶ 2:15:51Mr. Greer: I agree with the president.
▶ 2:15:54Sen. Lujan: Thank you very much. Economists are predicting trump's trade war is when a customer can families about $4000 per year. I disagree with your assessment now I'm agreeing with donald trump that families should feel pain. When I asked you about the economic impact you said, no, they're going to do great, things are going to be wonderful, new mexico should be appreciative of these things. I guess pain is the kind of it is what it is.
▶ 2:16:26Sen. Lujan: As I have been saying to my colleagues here, I understand the outcome of this last election. Donald trump is now the president of the united states. He won the election. Mira public and colleagues in the senate control the votes in the house and senate. That's why we see these budget resolutions. Own up to what you want to do. If you want to do it, be honest with the american people. I appreciate the time and yield back.
▶ 2:16:53Sen. Lujan: The same economists crying out now are ones who said that we are ready to crash the economy. We put tariffs on china and real media household income went up for america by $7,000. Unemployment went down. We have history showing we know how to use that.
▶ 2:17:10Sen. Lujan: I will just follow up again that explain the pain that people are feeling today with your assessment of what donald trump said, that families should feel some pain? That is all ok with you all?
▶ 2:17:22Mr. Greer: Senator, we are not going to be in a situation where we keep allowing wall street to run the economy. After making that transition --
▶ 2:17:30Sen. Lujan: You know what, let's spend time at the grocery store, I will take you around, give everyone a heads up. Let's see what the regular people back home are doing. This is not what they stand up for. Farmers and ranchers are getting the short end of the stick from usda, and they say no, it's because we don't want to give people food. Baloney. They are left -- they are cutting the lifeline for these farmers and ranchers as well.
▶ 2:18:01Sen. Lujan: You all are a lot smarter than I am. I am just a regular person. That's the difference between you and I.
▶ 2:18:08Chair Crapo: Senator warnock.
▶ 2:18:11Sen. Warnock: Thank you very much. Since president trump announced his tariffs last week, the stock market has dropped or than 10%. We have talked about that. I'm more concerned about the impact on ordinary people. This is a regressive tax. It is a tax on families. Who are already dealing with increasing cost and trying to figure out how to make their lives work.
▶ 2:18:39Sen. Warnock: I heard you say that you don't think this is -- that we are in a trade war. I respect your expertise on trade. But tomorrow, the trump administration will lament its reciprocal tariffs which means businesses and families have had less than one week to plan for the largest tax increase in more than 50 years. We are escalating. We can go back and forth about whether we think it is a trade war.
▶ 2:19:09Sen. Warnock: I'm focused on how this is impacting families. Normally when tariffs are being discussed, businesses and industries have time to plan. In the government often provides an orderly and clear process for american companies to apply for exclusions from tariffs when it is not possible for them to sell a product without importing parts or all of it because no one manufactures it here. We all know uncertainty is the worst thing for business.
▶ 2:19:45Sen. Warnock: I'm hearing this from farmers, from folks in the manufacturing sector. I hope we can provide some certainty. What should a multinational retailer do about their products made only overseas, or that contain parts only made overseas? We are seeing this in our automotive sector in georgia. Should they just raise their prices on families to account for the new tax, or is there a process for that company to reach out to the white house for an exclusion?
▶ 2:20:11Mr. Greer: Senator warnock, the section 232 on autos is a congress department action. One thing they have done is they have said that they would be willing to give some kind of credit for U.S. content in parts and components and they can approach the commerce department about this. I know this is one alternative. I am mindful -- when I hear this, obviously, we are sensitive to these dynamics. It reminds me that we lost 5 million manufacturing jobs over the last 20 years.
▶ 2:20:44Mr. Greer: That is part of the reason why we are in the situation now. It is important to bring a bacchanal before the situation gets worse.
▶ 2:20:49Sen. Warnock: Question is, what do they do, do they pass that price onto consumers?
▶ 2:20:54Mr. Greer: Ford and gm for example have announced that they are giving discounts. That was the big news last week. They would be giving discounts going forward. These companies often will figure out how they locate costs among themselves and it rarely gets down to consumers.
▶ 2:21:09Sen. Warnock: The company might figure it out.
▶ 2:21:11Mr. Greer: They can approach the commerce department.
▶ 2:21:15Sen. Warnock: D go smaller. Last week, my office met with angela hawkins, the founder of a small business in atlanta that sells bamboo based sleepwear and sheets for people with severe and sensitive skin allergies like her husband. Their products are made overseas because you can't find bamboo fabric made in the united states. What should angela do? Pay the new tax? Raise her prices and risk losing customers? Or is there a process for her to apply for an exclusion from the trump white house?
▶ 2:21:45Mr. Greer: The president has said that in connection with this action, he is not going to have exclusions or exemptions beyond what is in the program already for certain products.
▶ 2:21:56Sen. Warnock: So she will just have to figure it out.
▶ 2:21:58Mr. Greer: She will have to work with her business partners and figure out outsourcing.
▶ 2:22:02Sen. Warnock: She will have to raise prices and risk customers basically is the answer. Because she can't get bamboo here.
▶ 2:22:12Mr. Greer: It will depend on the tariff rate. Every country has a different rate. Some are lower than others.
▶ 2:22:15Sen. Warnock: So she might even go out of business. Let's go even smaller. Early estimates show president trump's tariffs will increase the costs of goods by $3800 for the average american households. Many baby goods are produced abroad. Or have foreign-made components. I went through this not long ago as a parent of young children.
▶ 2:22:45Sen. Warnock: For an expecting family who may see a 50% price increase for that stroller or car seat, what is the process for that family to apply for a white house exclusion? I guess if the business owner can't get one, they can't get one either.
▶ 2:23:00Mr. Greer: There is not an exclusion process, that's right.
▶ 2:23:03Sen. Warnock: So they would just bear the cost.
▶ 2:23:07Mr. Greer: I think the studies you are talking about, the economists got it wrong in trump one. They said that there would be inflation because of tariffs. When I hear them saying the same thing, I don't trust what they are saying. The fact of history shows it is not a one to one. The highest inflation we ever saw was under biden for housing and education and health care. I don't know where everybody was then. When that was skyrocketing.
▶ 2:23:29Sen. Warnock: What if their child is potassium deficient, last I checked, we don't have the climate to grow bananas in the united states. Who said that family reach out to the white house for an exclusion for that price hike on those bananas?
▶ 2:23:48Mr. Greer: There is not an exclusion process. I think we have waited too long with the status quo. I know people want the status quo. We can't have that.
▶ 2:23:53Sen. Warnock: Right here you and I agree. Nobody wants the status quo. This economy is not working for working families. For ordinary people. And I would submit that what the president did last week in such a reckless and sudden way is adding even more pressure on these families. Thank you so much.
▶ 2:24:14Chair Crapo: Senator warren.
▶ 2:24:16Sen. Warren: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Donald trump has single-handedly driven this economy off a cliff with no evidence to back that he is claimed emergency authorities to slap new tariffs on nearly every product we import from nearly every country. But congress has the power to reverse these tariffs, and we should do so immediately. Tariffs can be a tool to help build things in america.
▶ 2:24:45Sen. Warren: But trump has slapped tariffs on and off, on and then off again with no rhyme or reason. And the uncertainty about the long-term rules makes companies far less likely to invest in manufacturing or jobs here in the united states.
▶ 2:25:03Sen. Warren: If congress does not stand up to trump, economists project a recession before the end of the year, and fed chair jerome powell says we are in real danger of "both higher unemployment and higher inflation." translation, trump's tariffs will push millions of workers out of jobs and push prices up at the same time.
▶ 2:25:28Sen. Warren: Ambassador greer, we have heard a lot of conflicting statements about whether these tariffs are here to stay, how many more rounds of on/off we are going to do. Let me ask the question from a different perspective. Ambassador greer, we lost 700,000 jobs east -- each month in the last recession. If 700,000 americans lose their jobs, will the trump administration suspend these tariffs?
▶ 2:25:57Mr. Greer: I think the economists who are making these projections who often are in favor of fully unfettered free trade are the same ones who said in the first trump term --
▶ 2:26:11Sen. Warren: I'm not asking about projections. I'm asking if the numbers show that 700,000 people have lost their jobs because of these new tariffs that trump has slapped on, will the administration reverse course and lift those tariffs?
▶ 2:26:33Mr. Greer: That's not going to happen. We lost 5 million manufacturing jobs which is the number I most worried about.
▶ 2:26:36Sen. Warren: So I take that as a no. Let me try another one. Moody says if the trump tariffs remain in place, we will definitely plunge into a recession, which will ultimately cost 3.5 million americans their jobs. Ambassador greer, if trump's tariffs push 3.5 million people out of work, will the trump administration reverse course and lift those tariffs?
▶ 2:27:09Mr. Greer: The wall street analysts are wrong. They never want to have any change in the status quo. That is what you are quoting to meet.
▶ 2:27:12Sen. Warren: I'm giving you a number. If the number is 3.5 million, if it never comes to pass, you don't have to worry about your answer. If 3.5 million people lose their jobs because of these tariffs, is the trump administration prepared to lift them?
▶ 2:27:32Mr. Greer: Right now this minute, we are working on negotiations with countries who believe they can achieve reciprocity with us and get their trade deficit down. That's the emergency we are focused on. It will not be a situation where we have lost a million jobs.
▶ 2:27:39Sen. Warren: If trump tariffs push workers out of their jobs and raise prices, as fed chair powell has predicted, will you reverse course then?
▶ 2:27:51Mr. Greer: I think also with respect to chairman powell, who I don't know personally but I know the president makes decisions on trade and rarely takes advice from chairman powell, we found in trump one that you can put tariffs on china and make it work -- lower unemployment, and increase real median household income over time as we we sure --reshore.
▶ 2:28:12Sen. Warren: What I'm hearing you say is no one can have a rhyme or reason of why the tariffs are on-again, off-again. What you are telling us is the fact that hundreds of thousands, even millions of people could lose their jobs and the prices could go out and it will not be a factor for you or donald trump for rolling those tariffs back.
▶ 2:28:37Sen. Warren: If republicans are serious about protecting american jobs and fighting inflation, then they can join democrats right now to pass a resolution to fix trump's reckless tariffs. This economy is teetering on the edge of collapse. We have the power right here in the senate and over in the house of representatives to take this authority away from donald trump. We can get this voted on.
▶ 2:29:05Sen. Warren: Senator wyden and I are about to introduce the bill to do that. And if republicans are serious about not playing the red light green light with tariffs, but instead about protecting our economy, our families, our jobs, and keeping prices low, then republicans should join us on that. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:29:23Chair Crapo: Senator welch.
▶ 2:29:25Sen. Welch: Thank you. There is a place for tariffs. On china. Targeted tariffs make some sense. What is being rolled out in the way this is being done is so destructive and so reckless and so irresponsible, that it is creating nothing but economic chaos on -- uncertainty and suffering. These are really disastrous things. I just want to go through this question of how do these rollout?
▶ 2:29:58Sen. Welch: You did not set as our trade representative the tariff rates on all of these countries that were on display when the president announced -- right?
▶ 2:30:06Mr. Greer: The president made a decision on how he wanted to have the tariffs set. In the economic cabinet advised him on that.
▶ 2:30:16Sen. Welch: Sen. welch: but you did not set the 50% rate.
▶ 2:30:19Mr. Greer: I personally didn't.
▶ 2:30:19Sen. Welch: Can you explain how that makes any sense?
▶ 2:30:22Mr. Greer: The way the methodology works is the emergency we are talking about is premised on the trade deficit. I'm trying to explain the methodology.
▶ 2:30:33Sen. Welch: This has got to get concrete. Because this has real impacts on everyday people. The rhetoric about what the goals are when the rollout is so in conflict with achieving anything other than economic downturn, how the 50% rate on lesotho be decided?
▶ 2:31:00Mr. Greer: When you have white house economists who set the trade deficit --
▶ 2:31:01Sen. Welch: You had no role in it?
▶ 2:31:04Mr. Greer: I had a role in it.
▶ 2:31:04Sen. Welch: How did you come up with 50% for lesotho?
▶ 2:31:09Mr. Greer: I would like to tell you. When you look at a country's trade deficit, we believe that captures the unfairness is. You have to have a uniform methodology.
▶ 2:31:18Sen. Welch: I'm going to keep going because lesotho does diamonds --
▶ 2:31:23Mr. Greer: I'm happy to talk about the methodology.
▶ 2:31:24Sen. Welch: My sense is there is no methodology. I asked chatgpt and they came up with some formula.
▶ 2:31:31Mr. Greer: That's not true.
▶ 2:31:32Sen. Welch: Here is how it looks. Donald trump just got fed up and said, what the heck, we will go with this formula that makes no sense. Number two, the issue of these tariffs, now the phone is ringing off the hook at the white house from countries wanting to get a break.
▶ 2:31:51Mr. Greer: They want to talk about reciprocal trade with us and how to get the deficit down.
▶ 2:31:56Sen. Welch: Here the structural issue that is alarming to me, and I hope to all of us. We are using these tariffs, or the president is using these tariffs from going from an economy based on competition, to one that is based on access. In a competitive economy, your product, your service, determines the outcome and how well you do.
▶ 2:32:20Sen. Welch: In an access economy, it is who has got donald trump's number, who has got your number, and you call up and you get a break. That is in any access economy. Is this going to be the arbitrary authority of the president to decide yes, we will cut the vietnam tariff, and no, we will sustain the tariff on lesotho?
▶ 2:32:41Mr. Greer: The way this works is we have long-standing relationships with trade officials in these foreign countries and they work with our staff and develop -- if someone comes to us with an offer, we review it and presented to the president.
▶ 2:32:55Sen. Welch: You have got donald trump as president basically picking and choosing winners and losers. Who knows on what basis. That is not a trade regime anybody can count on. That's something they can gain if they know you, no let nick, no donald trump. In that -- what senator warnock was asking about, we have farmers. The work with canada, they get their grain, it is going to be 25% hit.
▶ 2:33:25Sen. Welch: We have got consumers whose electricity bills are going up because of retaliation from canada. Can they make a call to you, to howard let nick, to the president, and ask for relief?
▶ 2:33:40Mr. Greer: We certainly talk to all kinds of constituents, labor unions, civil society, business. With canada and mexico, they receive duty-free treatment for things that follow the rule.
▶ 2:33:50Sen. Welch: Let me tell you the frustration I have. There is a place for targeted tariffs to help us and also to push back on unfair trade practices. I support that. That's not what this is. This is utter chaos.
▶ 2:34:11Sen. Welch: Arbitrary and willful on the part of the president that is setting up a dynamic where he picks winners and losers rather than companies compete to do the best they can't, -- they can and have the benefit of good work and a good product. Mr. chairman, I yield back.
▶ 2:34:26Chair Crapo: Senator barrasso.
▶ 2:34:29Sen. Barrasso: Appreciate being here. I am concerned, wyoming and workers across the country, I'm worried foreign competitors use unfair trade practices against the united states, our workers, our producers. These practices threaten our economic security, our prosperity. We want a safe and prosperous nation. Workers in my home state are paying the price.
▶ 2:34:54Sen. Barrasso: Can you talk a little bit about how you determine if foreign trade and economic practices constitute an emergency for our country? I just heard our previous speaker type about asking chatgpt, I'm not going to do that, I'm going to ask you. How do we determine if foreign trade and economic practices constitute an emergency for our country?
▶ 2:35:13Mr. Greer: Thank you. In the first instance when the president declares emergency, he has to consider the conditions that may impact national and economic security. For him, he took a look at trade deficit, which was the largest in human history under president biden, 1.2 trillion. We looked at what the effect of that was. It includes loss of 5 million manufacturing jobs, loss of 90,000 factories, loss of competitiveness with china in advanced technology.
▶ 2:35:42Mr. Greer: Then we looked at the causes of the trade deficit. There is currency manipulation, other currency factors but also non-reciprocity in trade, barriers overseas whether tariffs or nontariff barriers that keep us out, unfair trading practices and other things that push into our market or subsidies. Those are the things we look at. When you move to the countries, it is common sense to have a baseline to make sure there is no cheating.
▶ 2:36:09Mr. Greer: And have a higher rate for those who have -- to pose the biggest challenges in terms of the trade deficit.
▶ 2:36:14Sen. Barrasso: Can I ask you about nuclear fuel? For decades, america led the world in uranium production. Today, we are virtually -- there is virtually no enrichment capacity. We are dependent on imports from other countries. Congress took a strong stand by banning russian uranium imports. We are seeing a troubling shift with increased uranium imports coming from china. We see irani and from russia going to china.
▶ 2:36:43Sen. Barrasso: We simply replace one adversary with another. This poses a serious threat to our national security, our energy independence, wyoming has resources in the workforce to revive american uranium production. What we know is it is subsidized foreign uranium from china and russia and threatens to undermine our domestic industry. We support efforts to end uranium imports as we continue to build our U.S. nuclear supply?
▶ 2:37:07Mr. Greer: I'm happy to talk to you about that in the best way to implement that action.
▶ 2:37:12Sen. Barrasso: Market access for wyoming beef. Our ranchers are seeing what you recently did, what the president has done and say, it's about time. I know you have heard a lot about market access today. Specifically to discuss market access for american beef. Is our number one cash crop. Our ranchers produce the highest quality beef in the world. Yet our beef faces significant barriers.
▶ 2:37:38Sen. Barrasso: I appreciate your office's efforts to document the numerous barriers that unfairly block american beef exports. For example, thailand imposes a 50% tariff on american beef. The european union's numerous "green deal restrictions" limit market opportunities for our ranchers. Australia's barriers prevent the sale of a safe high-quality american beef. They have sold 29 billion into our country.
▶ 2:38:10Sen. Barrasso: We can't sell a hamburger there. Wyoming beef producers have felt the direct impact of these unfair trade practices. I say desarno -- our number one cash crop. What steps you see being taken them to open new markets and ensure fair access for our beaver around the world where we have been blocked?
▶ 2:38:23Mr. Greer: As everyone knows, we have a lot of countries coming to talk to us now who want more reciprocal trade, get there trade deficit down. Part of that is making sure we have access to products like beef, making sure we are exporting products like beef. I have talked to the australians about this issue. It's always surprising because they are a great partner for us. This is a big issue with them. Southeast asia as well. These are things that are on our list when people come to talk to us. We expect countries to change this.
▶ 2:38:50Sen. Barrasso: Thank you. In terms of critical minerals, we sit on vast deposits of critical minerals in wyoming, is for our national security, our state of significant reserves. Are there trade initiatives you are taking right now that will pursue to counter china's dominance in the critical minerals world, both in terms of production and refinement?
▶ 2:39:14Mr. Greer: Yes, I know for example this is at the congress department, but I know that they are considering whether they need to take action and looking at the potential section 232 investigation of critical minerals to know how we can get that here, how we can get processing here, how to make sure we are not depending on china for those things.
▶ 2:39:33Sen. Barrasso: Thank you.
▶ 2:39:33Chair Crapo: Senator blackburn.
▶ 2:39:37Sen. Blackburn: Thank you for being here today. I know you have had a big -- a busy week. And we appreciate that. And appreciate what the president is trying to do for the broader economy. It is encouraging to hear that we have 70 countries coming in to negotiate tariffs. And some of those nontariff barriers that have existed, so we are grateful for all of that work.
▶ 2:40:09Sen. Blackburn: I do want to ask you about some of the foreign government's using bogus environmental regulations to really sideline american businesses and the eu's new deforestation regulation is a great example of this. Imposing excessive reporting requirements that would shut out tennessee pulp and paper producers from foreign markets.
▶ 2:40:40Sen. Blackburn: And also, we are seeing some of these foreign governments actually sees U.S. assets under false pretenses. Last year, we had a company, vulcan materials, which declined to sit in to the government. So armed forces came in and took control of that environmental licensing requirements. This is a pattern of regulatory abuse.
▶ 2:41:15Sen. Blackburn: It keeps our companies out of the global market. How are you working to protect these U.S. businesses and to deal with these foreign governments that are weaponizing their bogus regulations to restrict the market access?
▶ 2:41:26Mr. Greer: Senator, I always find it troubling when countries use these kind of measures as a protectionist measure, our companies, whether they are going elsewhere to produce in other countries, are always the cleanest and most responsible always.
▶ 2:41:50Mr. Greer: With respect to the two examples, you know that on the vulcan issue, I have raised this personally with mexican trade officials, and with respect to the eu for history regulation, my understanding is it is on pause while they look at it and take a second look. I talked to my counterparts in europe frequently and this is something where I want to make sure they are treating us appropriately under this law and not discriminating against us.
▶ 2:42:13Sen. Blackburn: That's wonderful. If I could get in writing from you an update on the vulcan port issue, that would be helpful also.
▶ 2:42:20Mr. Greer: We are happy to do that.
▶ 2:42:21Sen. Blackburn: Thank you. I want to talk about digital trade. Because president trump has really shown great leadership when it comes to digital trade. That was part of the negotiations on the usmca. It really gave us a very robust and ambitious digital trade.
▶ 2:42:50Sen. Blackburn: The provisions including cross-border data flows and data localization are critical to facilitating strategic U.S. initiatives across a broad range of industries. We have an opportunity now to build on this digital chapter.
▶ 2:43:10Sen. Blackburn: And I think that could really pave a way to add other provisions on critical issues, such as ai, such as quantum computing that we are dealing with how could you expand that globally as we look at negotiating new trade agreements?
▶ 2:43:40Mr. Greer: I think it is important to understand that our digital trade companies are the most competitive in the world, the most effective in the world. What we don't want is a situation where they are retaliated against or discriminated against, such that their chinese counterparts taking market share. That would be a disaster situation. As countries come to us and want to talk about how to have more reciprocal trade, I would expect that we want to make sure they are not discriminating against our technology companies.
▶ 2:44:07Mr. Greer: We want to have -- want to make sure we have a level playing field so we can have the appropriate market access we want. Whether we do that in formal trade agreements or in commitments from these other countries.
▶ 2:44:19Sen. Blackburn: Digital trade is important to tennessee. We are looking forward to that. Nontariff barriers are something that get mentioned quite a bit as we are talking to companies. I know vietnam has several nontariff barriers and we have seen this in the ustr's national trade estimate report. We had a record high deficit with vietnam in 2024.
▶ 2:44:51Sen. Blackburn: In part, that's because chinese companies are using vietnam to do that. Will you work to ensure any possible deal with vietnam, because I know they have been first to the table, to try to negotiate for a zero tariff, but we want to make certain that whatever is done includes provisions that will not allow china to reap the benefits of working within shipping through vietnam.
▶ 2:45:17Mr. Greer: I agree with you 100%, whether it is vietnam or others. If they think they will have some kind of different rate, it can't be one that gives preference to a third country like china to circumvent what we are trying to do. I gripped -- I agree with you 100%.
▶ 2:45:36Sen. Blackburn: Thank you for that.
▶ 2:45:38Chair Crapo: Senator sanders.
▶ 2:45:40Sen. Sanders: Thank you, chairman. I enjoyed our conversation in the office last month. Let me begin by saying as I suspect you know that I am not a great fan of unfettered free trade. I helped lead the effort when I was in the house against nafta, against our permanent normal trade relations with china.
▶ 2:46:01Sen. Sanders: I will never forget a visit I made to the mecca daily area in mexico where I saw brand-new factories and literally mexican workers living in cardboard boxes, and the result was a loss of hundreds of thousands of good paying jobs in this country. That is the type of trade policy we try to test.
▶ 2:46:30Sen. Sanders: I want to move to an area to talk about the legal basis of what president trump has done. President trump said that he had no choice in terms of canada. And I live 50 miles away from the canadian border.
▶ 2:46:46Sen. Sanders: He had no choice but to bypass congress and to impose an emergency 25% tariff on canada to sub "the massive" amount of fentanyl and "the millions and millions of undocumented immigrants coming from the northern border." unfortunately, that is a lie. The truth is the U.S. customs and border protection reported 43 pounds of fentanyl was seized at the canadian border last year, representing just 2/10 of 1% of the total.
▶ 2:47:18Sen. Sanders: We can agree that one pound of fentanyl is too much. But if 2/10 of 1% constitutes an emergency, my guess is it illegal drugs are coming in from every country in the world. And they case the president of the united states incredible power to determine tariffs. Further, he said among -- he talked about millions and millions of undocumented immigrants coming from canada. Last year, there were 24,000 people. First question, we can argue about tariffs.
▶ 2:47:49Sen. Sanders: But why does the president have to lie all the time in order to make his point?
▶ 2:47:53Mr. Greer: Senator, I would just refute that. When the president is talking about the nature of the emergency we have --
▶ 2:48:02Sen. Sanders: Can you talk into the mic?
▶ 2:48:04Mr. Greer: I think if you look at what the president issued in terms of the order for the legal basis for what we are doing. President very rightly hit on this issue of fentanyl migration coming from northern and southern borders.
▶ 2:48:16Sen. Sanders: All drugs are a real emergency. 2/10 of 1%, you can then argue, illegal drugs come from every country in the world. You are giving the president of the united states unbelievable power. Let me go on that point. Let me mention what you probably know.
▶ 2:48:36Sen. Sanders: Seven republicans have joined a number of democrats on legislation reasserting congress's ability to play an active role in trade and tariffs. On the republican side, that was led by senator grassley. And he said "for too long, congress has delegated its clear authority to regulate interstate and foreign, -- foreign commerce of the executive branch.
▶ 2:49:06Sen. Sanders: He wants to reassert congress's role and reassure congress has a vote in policy." in the last two weeks, all we have seen is reports in the newspaper. Congress has not had one ounce of authority in determining tariff policy. Do you think congress should be left out of the process, or does the present have the power to do anything he wants with tariffs?
▶ 2:49:36Mr. Greer: My staff has had over 200 meetings to consult, the president has been transparent about what he wants to do on tariffs.
▶ 2:49:43Sen. Sanders: You can have all the meetings you want. You and I had a nice meeting. But at the end of the day, the president did exactly what he wanted to do without any discussion, formal discussion with members of congress. He can make recommendations to congress. That's for sure. Do you really think he has the power under an emergency degree to reorder the trade world, global trade policy without any input from the united states congress?
▶ 2:50:12Mr. Greer: Congress gave him this law where if he determines a national emergency, he can take appropriate action. That's what he has done.
▶ 2:50:19Sen. Sanders: Do you think it is a actual emergency, the 2/10 of 1% coming from canada constitutes a national emergency? Do you?
▶ 2:50:28Mr. Greer: The president has determined --
▶ 2:50:30Sen. Sanders: I'm asking you.
▶ 2:50:32Mr. Greer: I agree with the president. If you have china and canada and mexico putting drugs into this country at different levels, than that is an emergency.
▶ 2:50:43Sen. Sanders: We are not going to argue about the danger of drugs. 43 pounds of fentanyl. On that basis, the president can declare an emergency with any country on earth and take unlimited power. That is called authoritarianism. That is not what a democracy does. Do you have any concerns about all of that power going into the president?
▶ 2:51:05Mr. Greer: He has to renew the emergency every year and give reports to congress. Congress told him what he has to do to use this authority and he is doing those things.
▶ 2:51:14Sen. Sanders: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:51:15Chair Crapo: You have been going now two hours and almost 40 minutes. We have one more question. Senator wyden has one more question.
▶ 2:51:26Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much. Mr. greer, we have been at this a long time and you have offered a lot of word salad about international trade. Reciprocity and metrics in the list goes on and on. Inside this verbiage, you have ducked a very big question.
▶ 2:51:50Sen. Wyden: And that is how can you negotiate with scores of countries where americans see their 401(k)'s go up in smoke? So what I would like to do is ask you one simple question. To wrap this up. Because at home in oregon, people want to know what we are doing to help the people who are hurting today.
▶ 2:52:15Sen. Wyden: Not months and months or elections and all kinds of dates far in the future. Here is my question to wrap up. When will those hurting now see really? -- real relief?
▶ 2:52:36Mr. Greer: The country voted for this president and his trade policy. He knows how to use tariffs appropriately to negotiate deals where necessary, and to drive investment back to the U.S. and that's what we were doing. He was successful in his first term and that is what we are doing now. We are working around-the-clock to make sure we can do that.
▶ 2:52:52Sen. Wyden: I gave you a chance to respond, and what you said was inaccurate. Nobody disputes that the president won the election up here on the dais. But nobody was told in the election campaign that we would have all of these people hurting now because of a flawed trade policy. One setting while, maybe take a little time.
▶ 2:53:17Sen. Wyden: But there was not any mention of people from one end of the country to another, feeling they have been wiped out financially. Nobody heard about that. But was never discussed. Hope you have an answer for me because that is what americans want to know who are hurting now. They have listened to all of this trade lingo tossed around. Then they scratch their head and say, who is going to stand up for me now? I tell you, we will fight for those people.
▶ 2:53:49Sen. Wyden: That's why I'm proposing a bipartisan resolution that would overturn what is going on with 180 countries. We will keep the record open for a few days. But what I would like to know is what the timetable is for helping people who are hurting right now, because I have not heard anything on that point.
▶ 2:54:10Chair Crapo: Thank you, senator wyden. We are now at the conclusion of the questions. Ambassador greer, thank you for the time you have given us. You have gone almost two hours and 45 minutes. And I think you have been very clear about what the presidents intentions are and how you expect this to roll out. The questions for the record deadline is tuesday, april 15, for members of the senate. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
▶ 2:54:42Chair Crapo: 5 Mr. greer: thank you.