▶ 0:15:06>> this hearing will come back to order. We had a classified part of the hearing beginning at 8:00 a.m. At this point were holding a hearing on the U.S. indo-pacific command and U.S. force korea. I want to thank admiral paparo and general brunson. Last year I said the balance of power in the indo-pacific was shifting in china's favor.
▶ 0:15:38Since then, the chinese communist party has increased its activity towards taiwan and the philippines. Last week the china conducted an exercise called straight thunder 2025a. It demonstrated the extent to which the people's liberation army could execute a maritime blockade of taiwan and public with missile strikes. As china conducts exercises with taiwan in mind, it escalates the rhetoric against the island.
▶ 0:16:06Chinese military officials called taiwan's democratically elected president a parasite. The chinese have also substantially increased their harassment of our filipino allies. The vast maritime militia backed by the pla navy and chinese postcard is using increasingly aggressive tactics to advance his expansive claims in the south china sea. The second thomas show remains a flashpoint.
▶ 0:16:37Militias have tried to keep the grounded filipin navy ships the sierra madre from being resupplied. Secretary hegseth visited the region. I was pleased to see that he reaffirmed our mutual defense treaty with the philippines, reminding the world the treaty applies to attacks on the filipino armed forces anywhere in the south china sea.
▶ 0:17:02It is clear the chinese have been by four years of weakness during the past administration. There's another reason china has become so confident in its malign schemes. Xi jinping has steadily modernized his military. That hardware has made him more brazen. China boasts the world's largest navy and has an air force that is capable of denying the U.S.
▶ 0:17:30Air superiority in the first island chain. We want to ask about that. The missile force can saturate our theater of defenses. China has been expanding its nuclear arsenal at a pace that far outstrips our own. Multiple commanders have called china's growth breathtaking. In just a few short years beijing has built more intercontinental ballistic missile cultures in united states.
▶ 0:17:57Our own modernization programs languish from past neglect. China is not the only urgent threat in the indo-pacific. The biden administration chose to ignore north korea. It allowed kim jong-un to increase his nuclear arsenal and project his military into european theater to aid vladimir putin and russia's organs ukraine. Kim jong-un has abandoned the goal of unification of the korean peninsula.
▶ 0:18:28We will want to talk about that. He's declared south korea to be the principal enemy. The north korean nuclear arsenal continues to grow and diversify. With a rogue nation adopting a strategic doctrine that embraces nuclear first use. Kim will surely seek renumeration for his support to moscow.
▶ 0:18:52The russian technology transfers and military assistance kim receives will help him to further strengthen his strategic military forces -- missile forces. The demonstrations of russia, china, and north korea aligning and cooperating should be of great concern to all the west. This concern should lead to action if we are to maintain global peace and stability.
▶ 0:19:20We must continue taking steps to rebuild our military and reestablish deterrence. As I noted in my peace through strength report last may, it is time to make a generational investment in our national security. I do believe that view is bipartisan. We must be able to not only deter and defeat the people's liberation army but also maintain deterrence in other theaters. Adversaries led by beijing are playing a global game.
▶ 0:19:52We must be smarter and more agile than they are across-the-board. Last year, the list was $3.5 billion. This year's list was $11 billion. Virtually none of that was funded under the cr. This is unacceptable.
▶ 0:20:12I hope we are going to get from everyone an accurate and full assessment of the various unfunded requirements. We need real growth in the fy 26 budget request. In addition to a historic defense reconciliation package. We need more U.S.
▶ 0:20:38Command-and-control systems and improved ability to counter china's capable cyber and space systems. When to wholesale overhaul of our logistics infrastructure and a rapid deployment of unmanned systems. We need a renaissance in our camouflage and deception programs. We need a drastic improvement in our shipbuilding. The risk is simply too high for us to avoid making these changes. I look forward to hearing from my distinguished and well-informed witnesses.
▶ 0:21:11Having a candid conversation about with this committee and senate and congress can do this year to address these challenges. Senator reed.
▶ 0:21:18Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Welcome. Thank you for appearing today. Please convey our thanks to the minimum and serving under your command in defending us. This is a challenging time in the indo-pacific. China is deploying a wide range of military, economic, and political pressures against its neighbors while aggressively challenging america's leadership in the region.
▶ 0:21:45Sen. Reed: United states is nazi conflict with china but we have -- does not seek conflict with china but we have deep interest that must be protected through strong deterrence and smart competition. Several month ago I traveled to guam, south korea, and the philippines to assess the region. I observed joint military exercises, met with leaders, spoke with foreign business leaders, and inspected the military and for structure. I was impressed with our progress.
▶ 0:22:15Sen. Reed: Particularly the development of our partnership with the philippines and the remarkable emerging partnership between korea and japan. These relationships should inspire us to double that of element of networks like the quad and asian as we bring other nations into the efforts. As countless military sentiments have told me, the key asymmetric advantage our nation has over china is our network of allies and partners.
▶ 0:22:43Sen. Reed: I am concerned the trump administration is unraveling much of the progress we have made. Many observers fear president trump may shrink the U.S. troop resins -- presence in korea and japan, reduce military exercises, and scale back plans for a joint force headquarters in japan. Despite the fact that korea and japan contribute significantly the burden sharing and hosting our forces.
▶ 0:23:09Sen. Reed: Although the president has temporarily suspended tariffs against our closest allies and partners, the last few days have undoubtedly some teeth of doubt about america's stability and trustworthiness. Feelings that would be up a fight if the president decided to reinstate the sanctions after 90 days. In addition to dismantling america's soft power tools like the U.S. agency for international development, president trump's actions serve only to push our friends away from us and that is not appropriate.
▶ 0:23:39Sen. Reed: Admiral paparo, general brunson, you engage with our partners everyday as a matter of diplomatic leadership in necessity. How would this disadvantage are forces and wreck his interest in the region. Admiral paparo, taiwan remains the most dangerous point in our competition with china. We have seen a surge of aggressive chinese military exercises around taiwan' airspaces and territorial waters.
▶ 0:24:10Sen. Reed: The world has a right to be concerned. In several consecutive national defense authorization ask, this committee provided tools to help build taiwan's give abilities and strengthen our own parser -- posture. The taiwan security cooperation initiative and the indo-pacific campaigning initiative should enable greater support and training for taiwan and facilitate increased exercises and freedom of navigation operations.
▶ 0:24:40Sen. Reed: Consistent with the taiwan relationship. Your command has once again had to divert ships and aircraft for prolonged and intensive operations in the middle east. Admiral paparo, I would like to know your assessment of indopacom's readiness to carry out your missions and the united states strategy in the region. Key to america's success in the indo-pacific is the posture of our forces in south korea.
▶ 0:25:05Sen. Reed: I'm encouraged by the progress I have seen in the trilateral relationship among south korea, japan, and the united states. I hope that of element like these will provide more opportunities to engage other regional partners. We must continue to manage the threat posed by north korea. Kim jong-un continues to view nuclear weapons as "the ultimate deterrent against foreign intervention." he wants to gain international exceptions as a nuclear arms state.
▶ 0:25:35Sen. Reed: North korea's relationship with russia continues to grow, especially in light of north korea sending troops and weapons to support the invasion of ukraine. Kim jong-un is likely receiving technical assistance from russia with missile and nuclear capabilities. General, I would appreciate your view on the threat from north korea and how your forces are maintaining readiness in training and exercises with her south korean counterpart. -- our south korean counterpart.
▶ 0:26:06Sen. Reed: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:26:06Chair Wicker: We will not recognize each of our panelists for opening statements. General brunson, you went first in the closed session. Would you like to do that again?
▶ 0:26:19Gen. Brunson: My boss says yes so I do. Thank you for giving me at least the illusion of choice. Chairman wicker, ranking member reed, numbers of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I'm honored to appear for my first posture hearing in front of this committee as a commander of the united states forces korea, combined forces command, and united nations command.
▶ 0:26:50Gen. Brunson: I would like to take a moment to simply thank you all for your steadfast leadership, your friendship, your critical support to our service members, their families, our civilians and contractors who support us around the globe. I especially want to thank you for your continued time and attention to the people of the republic of korea and the soldiers, sailors, airmen, guardian and marines who served their on the peninsula.
▶ 0:27:16Gen. Brunson: I would like to thank the korean people right now for there can in utero resilience through -- their continued resilience through hard times. I want to thank her dedication to our alliance and thank them for their continued provision of an environment that allows us to build, sustain and retain the readiness we develop on the peninsula. In my career every opportunity to lead our nation's minute women has been an honor.
▶ 0:27:42Gen. Brunson: It is a privilege to serve alongside admiral paparo, our friends, partners and allies in the region working to strengthen our ties to further security, freedom, and prosperity among nations. For over 75 years we have invested our national treasure in the republic of korea and remain the last U.S. fighting force on the continent of asia. The return on investment of U.S.
▶ 0:28:08Gen. Brunson: Forces being stationed in korea is not measured only in dollars, but in terms of access and during partnerships and deterrence. In 2024, the dprk focused on advancing their cruise missile and hypersonic glide vehicle research and development programs. Launching 47 ballistic missiles with one failed satellite launch attempt. Kim jong-un also has two highly publicized visits to nuclear sites.
▶ 0:28:37Gen. Brunson: Over the past year and a half, dprk has exported munitions and troops to support russia, demonstrating providing external support while simultaneously advancing to Mr. capabilities. -- domestic capabilities. We expect them to develop hypersonic and multiple targetable reentry vehicle capabilities to complete its particles. Kim jong-un's leadership shifted focus from reunification to declaring sovereignty.
▶ 0:29:08Gen. Brunson: The change is evidenced by the hardening of dprk's southern border, the rejection of reunification discussions, and the destruction of unification monuments and buildings. They continue to build a nuclear weapons program and both a russian equipped augmented modernized military force of over 1.3 million personnel.
▶ 0:29:29Gen. Brunson: Lastly, dprk's cyber threat is sophisticated as devastated by the recent theft of approximate $1.5 billion in cryptocurrency. In contrast to that, I would speak to the rock, U.S. japan, trilateral efforts not only about a missile defense but in training and readiness developed on the peninsula. I thank you all for allowing me again to appear before you.
▶ 0:29:59Gen. Brunson: I look forward to your questions and thank you.
▶ 0:30:01Chair Wicker: Thank you, general. Admiral paparo.
▶ 0:30:05Adm. Paparo: Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear. Over my right shoulder is united states indo pay, --united states indopacom g for special operations. He's retiring after 38 years of selfless service as a seal and special operator. The nco corps of the U.S.
▶ 0:30:29Adm. Paparo: Of america is one of the absolute asymmetric advantages. The leadership in this duty has been exemplary, indispensable to my own transition as the commander of U.S. indopacom. I honor his service. In a region on over half the earth service and operational joint force, indopacom faces a confluence of challenges.
▶ 0:30:58Adm. Paparo: China's unprecedented aggression and military modernization poses a serious threat to the homeland, allies, and partners. In 2024, the people's liberation army demonstrated growing capabilities through persistent pressure operations with military pressure against taiwan increasing by 300%. China's increasingly aggressive actions near taiwan are not just exercises, they are rehearsals.
▶ 0:31:27Adm. Paparo: While the pla attempts to intimidate the people of taiwan and demonstrate coercive capabilities, these actions are backfiring, drawing increased global attention and accelerating taiwan's own defense operations. -- preparations. North korea's development of advanced nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles pose a direct threat to our homeland and our allies and are executing a deepening cooperation with russia.
▶ 0:31:56Adm. Paparo: Russia's growing military cooperation with china adds another layer of complexity, crating a compounded challenge with deepening cooperation among china, russia, and north korea. China and russia's pacific fleet is a growth enterprise. U.S. indopacom deters the challenge to regional stability and competition in crisis while maintaining the availability to prevail. That margin is eroding.
▶ 0:32:22Adm. Paparo: As chairman and ranking member have discussed. In 2024, we conducted 120 joint exercises, among them 20 major joint exercises, including not just the U.S. joint force but allies and partners. We continue to strengthen the relationship with japan, south korea, australia, the philippines, india, taiwan, pacific island countries, and european partners are active in the theater.
▶ 0:32:49Adm. Paparo: As the first priorities we must be dominant in space and across the information environment, leveraging capabilities to counter the p.r.c.'s command control intelligence and surveillance reconnaissance and targeting complex. This will enable us to gain a nonlinear advantage over potential adversaries and maintain an increase the nonlinear advantage.
▶ 0:33:14Adm. Paparo: To maintain credible deterrence, indopacom requires sustained investment in long-range survivable fires, integrated air and missile defense, enforced sustainment with the autonomy and ai driven systems. China is producing the U.S. in air, missile, maritime, and space capability, and accelerating these. I remain confident in our deterrence posture but the trajectory must change.
▶ 0:33:44Adm. Paparo: The pacific deterrent initiative should counter the china threat by investing in key readiness and capability which would in fact, if funded, advanced the intent of this initiative and deliver major posture improvement. Deterrence remains our highest duty, however that must be backed up by the real capability to prevail in combat. The joint force remains confident, resolute, and determined to prevail.
▶ 0:34:15Adm. Paparo: Thank you for your attention. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:19Chair Wicker: Thank you for your testimony and your service. Let's start with general brunson . Quickly, yes or no, korea -- north korea continues to expand its nuclear weapons arsenal, correct?
▶ 0:34:37Gen. Brunson: Yes or. -- sir.
▶ 0:34:41Chair Wicker: They expanded delivery systems?
▶ 0:34:44Gen. Brunson: Yes sir.
▶ 0:34:46Chair Wicker: You never know whether to believe what you read in the newspapers and see on the media. There are reports that mid-level officials are considering reducing our military presence on the korean peninsula to focus on the china threat and defense of the U.S. homeland.
▶ 0:35:07Chair Wicker: If our strategy in korea is to deter war and win if we have to, without be a good or bad idea?
▶ 0:35:19Gen. Brunson: Senator, to reduce the force becomes problematic. I will not speak the policy but what we provide is the potential to impose cost in the ec to russia, to impose cost in the west the china, and to continue to deter against north korea as it currently stands.
▶ 0:35:42Gen. Brunson: I am trying to focus right now on the capabilities necessary to do all those things that we might participate routinely in the campaign that my boss is fighting, which is to prepare, deter, and prevail in conflict should it come. The forces in korea lane important role. Over 75 years they have done the same.
▶ 0:36:01Chair Wicker: Admiral, a significant reduction of our military presence on the korean peninsula, good or bad?
▶ 0:36:11Adm. Paparo: Inherently it would reduce our ability to prevail in a conflict.
▶ 0:36:15Chair Wicker: What a conflict on the korean peninsula likely involve china?
▶ 0:36:22Adm. Paparo: My belief is that there would be a risk it would involve china and would have to be conducted carefully. That risk has got to drive our calculus.
▶ 0:36:35Chair Wicker: General brunson?
▶ 0:36:37Gen. Brunson: Our preparedness would prevent them from entering any conflict because of the potential to take them off their own party goals.
▶ 0:36:44Chair Wicker: Who wants to take the question about the air superiority of the p.r.c. Over hours in that theater?
▶ 0:36:56Adm. Paparo: The people's republic of china have an order of battle of 2100 fighters. Order of battle of over 200 h-6 bombers. They are producing fighters at a rate of 1.2 to 1 over the united states. There advanced air to air missile also present a term it is threat. -- tremendous threat.
▶ 0:37:25Adm. Paparo: If you do not hold the high ground in the first island chain, you are vastly limited in your ability to operate. I think every body knows the high ground. Seeding air superiority is not an option if we intend to maintain the capability against our adversaries and support our allies.
▶ 0:37:47Chair Wicker: Admiral, is a fact that china is now capable of denying U.S. air security in the first island chain?
▶ 0:37:57Adm. Paparo: I give them high marks in their ability to do that. I have some game too. -- airship remedy is the complete mastery of the air. Neither side will enjoy that. It will be my job to contest air superiority to protect those forces on the first island chain, such as third ring exit edition yuri force -- third marine expeditionary force.
▶ 0:38:28Chair Wicker: Admiral, kim jong-un is not motivated by charity in helping russia in ukraine. What is he expect back? What is he likely to get back?
▶ 0:38:46Adm. Paparo: He expects concessions. He's doing it to gain concessions. Those would be modernization of their air defenses. Specifically the mig 29, help with their air to surface missiles, quieting technology for the sufferings, helped to have a ballistic missile submarine as well, and likely propulsion help and potentially even help with the reentry
▶ 0:39:18Adm. Paparo: Vehicles for their burgeoning nuclear program.
▶ 0:39:20Chair Wicker: We will take another round. Let me make sure people understand you, general brunson. You are usa commander united nation's command and united states forces korea. You don't answer at all to the united nations headquartered in new york city, do you?
▶ 0:39:40Gen. Brunson: Those authorities go through the chairman to the secretary of defense and then on to the president.
▶ 0:39:45Chair Wicker: Totally different organization. Thank you very much. The distinguished ranking member is recognized.
▶ 0:39:53Sen. Reed: Let me thank the command master chief for his dedicated service to the nation. Thank you, chief. Let me associate myself with our comment that are asymmetric advantage, one of the keys is our noncommissioned officers. General brunson, you have indicated the importance of our forces on the korean peninsula. Can you elaborate on the support and magnitude of the burden sharing the south koreans contribute to us?
▶ 0:40:24Gen. Brunson: Senator reed, I would like to say forward presence provides unmatched access, unmatched deterrence at minimal cost comparatively speaking by other forces that are stationed forward. We received help from the department of defense with our tour normalization towards korea on par with other locations which changes overexposure to the region and our understanding of the adversaries therein.
▶ 0:40:57Gen. Brunson: I would also say that 2100 U.S. companies have ties to the republic of korea. That is 450,000 jobs that are a part of that. That is a piece that is critical to know and understand. I would also say we receive about half a billion dollars a year in korean related construction.
▶ 0:41:19Gen. Brunson: That builds the brand-new school that kam humphrey's, additional towers to house families and quality housing. It also built skiffs in the republic of korea that we might be able to do the important work to stay tied to indopacom.
▶ 0:41:36Gen. Brunson: I would like to say that in-kind the overall contribution in the past fiscal year was about $1.4 trillio -- 1.4 trillion won, close to $1 billion we receive in kind. I mentioned the continued and growing maintenance repair and overhaul facilities that exist on the east se and westa sea that we used to bring the wally seurat out of overhaul.
▶ 0:42:07Gen. Brunson: The cesar chavez also recently. There's a lot we get. Some of it is fiscal and monetary. Others is material that is a replaceable.
▶ 0:42:18Sen. Reed: General brunson, and previous national defense authorization talks we established a floor of 28,500 troops. As a demonstration of our unwavering commitment to the U.S. republic alliance and strategic region. Would you suggest we include such language again?
▶ 0:42:41Gen. Brunson: Yes sir.
▶ 0:42:44Sen. Reed: Admiral paparo, can you give us your perception of the overall commander of the value of the south korean forces to us in the presence of our troops on the peninsula together with the contributions they are making, the south koreans?
▶ 0:42:58Adm. Paparo: In addition to the elements laid out by general brunson, korea made significant contributions outside the korean peninsula. That is in their participation in multilateral exercises, including pacific partnership among many others.
▶ 0:43:23Adm. Paparo: In the ability of that force to deter conflicts, the ability of that force to avoid from having two conflict that once, that strength of the capability and by what they are doing in the trilateral relationship with japan, that growing relationship with japan. On their path to become a global pivotal state they are a key partner in the western pacific with a purview that goes far beyond just the korean peninsula.
▶ 0:43:53Sen. Reed: You very much, sir. I mentioned currently you have forces that have been transferred to cencom. Sources suggest six b-2 bombers at diego garcia with supplementary tankers. What is this effect on your give ability? -- capability?
▶ 0:44:19Adm. Paparo: Brother carl vinson -- we have george washington coming up shortly in the nimitz is at sea. We have to maintain a high state of indications and warning so we can get those forces back if there is a crisis with greater exigence.
▶ 0:44:40Adm. Paparo: I owe the secretary of the president constant vigilance on this and constant awareness of the force's ability assigned to usindopacom, the carl vinson and petrie battalion, and if need be returning to the indopacom.
▶ 0:45:01Sen. Reed: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:45:04Chair Wicker: Senator cotton.
▶ 0:45:06Sen. Cotton: Welcome back will stop let's that back to first principles. We talked about the threat china poses to taiwan and what you are doing to try to address that threat. I would like you to explain why that threat is so severe.
▶ 0:45:24Sen. Cotton: Some people look at the map and say, well, taiwan is a small island far from us and close to them and china has marched into tibet in the past and marched into hong kong in the past. That was bad. They should not have done those things. They did not lead to world war or great depression.
▶ 0:45:45Sen. Cotton: On the other side you got one of your ancestors, so to speak, douglas macarthur who said at the dawn of the korean war that the domination of taiwan by an unfriendly power would be a disaster of utmost importance to the united states. He was speaking as we do today of commonest china -- communist china.
▶ 0:46:07Sen. Cotton: One of the military's leading experts on taiwan says it is possible the chinese invasion of taiwan would cause a 21st century version of the great depression and the famed investor ken griffin put it more bluntly, it's an immediate great depression. Why is it taiwan is different? Why is it such a hot flash port that can lead to war and global great depression? Why should americans care about an island on the other side of the world?
▶ 0:46:34Adm. Paparo: The last point is quite salient. Many research organization postulate conflict in the western pacific over the taiwan question would result in a 25% gdp contraction in asia.
▶ 0:46:51Adm. Paparo: A knock on effect of 10% to 12% gdp reduction in the united states of america with unemployment spiking seven to 10 points of a base and likely 500,000 excess deaths of despair among base as well. This is just the importance of the regional stability to the world economy and its effect on people's lives.
▶ 0:47:18Adm. Paparo: This is a function of freedom of navigation, a function of the world dependency on semiconductors. In the longer term, for the united states, our strategic center of gravity is our network of alliances and partners.
▶ 0:47:33Adm. Paparo: The total of 350 million people's talent, 130 million japanese, 130 million philippines, 25 million australians, not to mention 500 million in europe, and partners across the globe.
▶ 0:47:51Adm. Paparo: The knock on effect of the brittleness of that network of alliances and partnerships means some of the states could confer and submit to the prc's mode of exportation -- equitation and their goal of setting the rules of the world. And reaping the benefits of that.
▶ 0:48:15Adm. Paparo: Finally, some nations in the area of responsibility will submit, but others it would never happen just because of the historic tensions. In that case, the proliferation question comes to mind with nuclear arm states that are treaty allies with united states and minimal warning for launch among those nuclear states. It is a vital interest for the united states. My job is to have a force ready to make those choices.
▶ 0:48:46Adm. Paparo: I don't make the choices on whether or not it is important or not. I'm explicating how it is. My job is to present options to the commander-in-chief to be ready to fight and win.
▶ 0:48:56Sen. Cotton: To be clear, all those consequences would follow whatever the outcome of a conflict over taiwan, whether china succeeds in going for the jugular or fails or there is some kind of indecisive outcome. Having the conflict over taiwan which is such a center of gravity in the modern economy can lead to many of the consequences you just outlined?
▶ 0:49:20Adm. Paparo: Yes sir. I cannot quote the source. I will later. Most of the things I have studied indicate american intervention would have that impact. A successful american intervention would potentially do so. Still a great result but -- grave result with half as grave as a lot of human misery.
▶ 0:49:49Sen. Cotton: The key is to prevent the war from happening in the first place? We don't want to be in a situation where we have to win over taiwan, we want to stop it from happening in the way is through strong military and resolute confident leadership. What do you need most that you don't have right now to deter that conflict from happening in the first place?
▶ 0:50:14Adm. Paparo: Senator, counter c5 r capabilities to ensure the united states can see, understand, decide, act, assess, learn faster than the prc to enhance her ability to blind, deceive, and destroy the adversary's ability to see and sense.
▶ 0:50:38Adm. Paparo: In addition, the requirement to effectives long-range fires and effects that make the joint force effective in attacking centers of gravity, the platforms they write on, the sustainment that sustains them, key and critical foundation. The critical infrastructure across the theater that enables the force to reach the principles and puts geography on our side.
▶ 0:51:04Sen. Cotton: Thank you. >> thank you, senator cotton. Senator hirono, your recognized.
▶ 0:51:13Sen. Hirono: Welcome, admiral paparo. [no audio]
▶ 0:52:10Sen. Hirono: [no audio] -- very large funding gap is not addressed in the ndaa.
▶ 0:52:34Adm. Paparo: The joint force -- the trajectory on discussing continues. The joint force has an eroded capability to prevail. It manifests itself in lost people, lost capability, and lost money and time. It confers to the confidence of the prc and inherently erodes deterrence as they see more and more the potential of their prevailing in the conflict themselves and achieving their goals by aggression.
▶ 0:53:06Sen. Hirono: Thank you for explaining up to this committee the importance of the taiwan situation, because often I get asked why should we care about taiwan. Thank you for that.
▶ 0:53:22Sen. Hirono: Regarding the dismantling of usaid and the impact on us, whenever the net estates creates a void such as by ending foreign aid such as three usaid, it has an impact on our asymmetric advantage which includes our partners and allies.
▶ 0:53:42Sen. Hirono: How does ending foreign assistance programs and other regional aid efforts impact indopacom's security cooperation missions and the command's relationship with partners in the region?
▶ 0:53:53Adm. Paparo: Senator, those other instruments of national power are very important and critical to our ability to fight and win. My understanding is that usaid is under review. I continue to advocate for it. The loss of that, the prc would see the opportunity and sees it and they frequently do -- sieze it and frequently do.
▶ 0:54:22Adm. Paparo: Whenever they see a void they fillet into confer influence -- fill it in to confer influence.
▶ 0:54:30Sen. Hirono: We know that every time we create a void on any part of the indopacom area by providing assistance to our nation friends, china just steps right in and fills the void.
▶ 0:54:47Sen. Hirono: General brunson, you raised an important point in your opening statement regarding north korea hackers stealing $1.5 billion and probably more in cryptocurrency to fund their military. The justice department has disbanded a team of prosecutors targeting crypto crimes. Does that concern you?
▶ 0:55:14Gen. Brunson: Good morning, madam senator. That is not bother me at all. What I'm thinking about is all the estimates of military power that have to be brought to bear to stop illicit activity. That is only one of the illegal things they are doing. We talked a lot about what is north korea getting from russia. One of the things they are getting is the ability to circumvent sanctions. That theft is a piece of that. I'm also encouraged by the fact we can see what is going on.
▶ 0:55:43Sen. Hirono: Do you have an awareness of that apart of justice's team -- the department of justice's team that prosecuted to the tune of billions of dollars of crypto crimes? Are you aware of that team, the highly successful team being disbanded?
▶ 0:56:01Gen. Brunson: I am aware of that team. However, I believe we have the instruments to continue to proceed to prosecute these crimes.
▶ 0:56:10Sen. Hirono: That is somewhat reassuring. I think with all the crimes that are going on in the crypto space I think we should not be disbanding any efforts that we have in that space. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator hirono. Senator ernst, you recognized.
▶ 0:56:33Sen. Ernst: Thank you for being here. Chief, good luck to you in your retirement. Thank you for your service. I will start with indopacom. As you laid out for the committee, the indo-pacific is growing dangerous. It is extremely complex.
▶ 0:56:56Sen. Ernst: Our deterrence depends not just on our were fighting capability but also on the ability to sustain our operations. I started my career as an engineer, became a transporter, and ended as a loadgestcian. It is absolutely necessary that we talk about it if we wish to win the fight. We have to sustain the fight.
▶ 0:57:26Sen. Ernst: Admiral, what gaps exist in our theater logistics network that put our forward posture at risk?
▶ 0:57:32Adm. Paparo: Good morning, senator. Significant gaps in sea lift. Combat logistics is about 60% of the actual requirement. We counter that by hiring consul tankers and contracting other capabilities. When the unforgiving hour comes, the l.a. Ships able to commit -- the only ships to commit to put a harm's way will be gray ships.
▶ 0:58:01Adm. Paparo: 17 of those combat logistics force ships are later for lack of manpower. In addition -- laid up for lack of menpower -- manpower. We have to have millions of pounds of jet fuel every capability. Our tanker fleet is below what we need.
▶ 0:58:24Adm. Paparo: We account for that with contract air services but the same factors obtain -- he have to have a gray tail. Just cargo lift and the number of short tons of c-17 lift. Just having moved a patriot battalion into the cincom, it took 73 c-17 loads to move the patriot battalion.
▶ 0:58:54Sen. Ernst: 73?
▶ 0:58:58Adm. Paparo: Of one battalion of a forced element. Our lift requirements are -- must be paid attention to. I share your passion for sustainment. That is what won world war ii.
▶ 0:59:15Sen. Ernst: Those loadgestici ans, the dudes and do ans, the dudes and d udettes working to make sure warriors can fight the good fight. With that, you talked about contractors. We use them extensively. How can congress help accelerate the improvements necessary in indo-pacific --indopacom when the hour comes?
▶ 0:59:44Adm. Paparo: We have to get at problems of why our -- why we don't have enough combat logistics force. Shipbuilding. Why we don't have enough labor. That's looking hard at pay and incentives to recruit and retain those people. Rates of production and diversifying the tanker fleet is key.
▶ 1:00:07Adm. Paparo: And then continuing on to find alternatives of lift capability that we can order into harm's way. Over top of all of this we are incorporating artificial intelligence tools with command-and-control tools so it is not an on-demand system but so that we are executing that indispensable joint function as effectively as we possibly can.
▶ 1:00:39Adm. Paparo: We are nai enabled headquarters and that's important. You can't ai your way out of a material deficiency.
▶ 1:00:46Sen. Ernst: I agree completely. We need to spend time on this topic. Very briefly,, I have public -- general brunson, I apologize. I have 30 seconds. We rely on neighbors and friends in force multipliers. So did the adversaries. North koreans are fighting over in ukraine. Can you tell us what are the north koreans learning from this experience and what will they take back to your region?
▶ 1:01:15Gen. Brunson: I have said several times now in several hearings that we can't confuse the tactical lessons they are learning with her teacher benefit -- strategic benefit. They have done some things. There has been strategic move and operational maneuver. They are learning some things but it is the technology that is coming back in that is a threat to the republic of korea and the world.
▶ 1:01:38Sen. Ernst: Thank you, john. -- element. >> senator kaine, you recognized.
▶ 1:01:46Sen. Kaine: Without our presence on the korean peninsula , would kim invade the south?
▶ 1:01:57Gen. Brunson: Sir, I don't believe he would. What I would tell you is he would take advantage of other weapons and system he has, conventional, to limit the republic of korea's great growth that has taken place over the past 75 years. I think if we look at the hardening that is occurring on his border at the present time, defenses happen raised. What we see --
▶ 1:02:26Sen. King: Why is he doing that? Is there a threat the south koreans will invade?
▶ 1:02:31Gen. Brunson: It is much about the things he has broadcast that he is a sovereign nation and not looking to work with reunification. He has blown up all the means of industry in the dmz.
▶ 1:02:42Sen. King: I thought you said he's not talking about reunification. He's talking about one whole country. Doesn't that imply an invasion of the south?
▶ 1:02:52Gen. Brunson: No. He considers himself sovereign north of the ndl, which he claims is the southern boundary now.
▶ 1:03:00Sen. King: So he has accepted the boundary? You testified he wouldn't invade, then why are we there?
▶ 1:03:12Adm. Paparo: Senator, I don't think is think it is a matter of invasion. They could be temporary. To say will he or won't he invade, we are talking about probabilities, with the loss of the force there's a higher probability he would invade.
▶ 1:03:32Sen. King: That was my expect tatian when I asked the question. I would assume that if we were not there it would encourage him to take steps to try to cripple the south.
▶ 1:03:43Adm. Paparo: We have a treaty ally. It is the number 10 economy in the world. Our economies are intertwined. J kju's intentions could shift with the wind. It is very important we maintained the deterrent.
▶ 1:04:02Sen. King: I agree. To the extent that the korean economy is diminished, that would be against our interests because of their relationship we have.
▶ 1:04:12Gen. Brunson: Yes, senator. I misheard you. As I mentioned, 2100 U.S. companies tied to south korea. 400 50,000 jobs as well.
▶ 1:04:24Sen. King: Thank you. This is an intelligence question but I know you have intelligence. I did mean that the way it sounded. You have access to intelligence assets. How is that? Better. Do the north koreans know the extent to which they are being screwed by the regime? We have seen the famous picture of no lights in north korea and south korea is full of energy and prosperity.
▶ 1:04:56Sen. King: Do the north koreans have any inkling of the way they are being -- their opportunities in life are being diminished by this regime?
▶ 1:05:05Gen. Brunson: Senator, I would enter that having fully listened to the question that I might answer correctly this time. I would enter that by looking at the forces they sent to ukraine, to that fight. Absolutely dyed in the wool ideologues who are tied to and believe in that regime that exists there. I think a great many people are not witty to what's going on with the elites -- as long as he maintains control of the elites.
▶ 1:05:35Gen. Brunson: An article talk of an article talk about the things he's doing to continue to bring luxury goods into his country.
▶ 1:05:42Sen. King: Those luxury goods don't go to the people.
▶ 1:05:46Gen. Brunson: The point I am making is that as long as he can provide of palliative to the elites, the other folks won't. There's no way they can get communications in our out. One thing that was coming from the ngo's going to the north was radios. Those things then begat, you know, garbage balloons back to the south.
▶ 1:06:10Gen. Brunson: I would say the rank and file, the everyday people other than those with an the special operations units are not witty to anything outside of their country.
▶ 1:06:18Sen. King: That is my impression. Admiral, final question. If we pulled back in terms of our support for ukraine, with that incentivize japan, south korea to develop their own capacity, including a nuclear capacity?
▶ 1:06:36Adm. Paparo: I'm ignorant of the policy. I don't know the policy going on. It is another theater.
▶ 1:06:43Sen. King: I'm sorry, did I say ukraine? I'm in taiwan. If we withdrew our support from taiwan, with that incentivize japan and south korea to develop an independent capacity, including the possibility of nuclear weapons?
▶ 1:06:58Adm. Paparo: My assessment is yes.
▶ 1:07:01Sen. King: Thank you.
▶ 1:07:03Chair Wicker: Go ahead and answer that question with regard ukraine.
▶ 1:07:06Adm. Paparo: I'm in the indo-pacific so I don't have perfect knowledge of what is ongoing. My assessment, and to a deep extent in the intel record is that russian failure and/or russian success has the effect of deterring or emboldening the people's republic of china. They have already taken notice of the tremendous costs russia has endured.
▶ 1:07:40Sen. King: Thank you for that. That is a question I would have asked if I had another 10 seconds.
▶ 1:07:46Chair Wicker: And it only took us 59 seconds. Senator scott, you are recognized.
▶ 1:07:51Sen. Scott: I think both of you for what you do. Thank you for the men and women he served with. Admiral paparo, how much of your time do you spend trying to anticipate or counter actions by commonest china? -- communist china?
▶ 1:08:10Adm. Paparo: That consumes my duties, which is a constant stare, the constant analysis of intelligence sources, open-source sources, and the physical movement on the ground to see and understand, to anticipate and be able to paste their actions. They look to coerce taiwan and to demonstrate the prospect of settling the matter by force.
▶ 1:08:39Adm. Paparo: Number two, their encroachment on treaty allies in the philippines and on partners of the south china sea with their excessive and illogical claims.
▶ 1:08:51Sen. Scott: Their ability to build ships, airplanes, weapons, all these things, does that cause you to spend more time and money?
▶ 1:09:03Adm. Paparo: Yes, sir. They built combat and set a rate of 6:1.8 to the united states. I can go through every force element we are talking about.
▶ 1:09:16Sen. Scott: Before they joined the world trade organization and allow them to basically sell what they wanted to this country, did they have a military had to spend a lot of time worrying about?
▶ 1:09:28Adm. Paparo: By the weight of the civilization we worried about it. We have had to worry about this now for -- since 1949. It is a step level change in the last 20 years. They have increased their military 10 to 15 fold.
▶ 1:09:48Sen. Scott: If they didn't have the economy they have, which is created by selling goods and services to the merrick and citizens, they would not have the resources you would have to spend your time and money to try to counteract?
▶ 1:10:03Adm. Paparo: The society has grown greatly. That was a matter of design for the international community. What was not anticipated was the buildup that followed.
▶ 1:10:12Sen. Scott: Your life would be better if no american bought any chinese products or services and no american dollar went to communist china?
▶ 1:10:20Adm. Paparo: I will say that china's inability to pump resources into its national defense enterprise which is bolstered by a straight position -- it's trade position is a corollary to the success of their business model.
▶ 1:10:35Sen. Scott: Would you recommend american citizens stop buying chinese products and stop using chinese services?
▶ 1:10:41Adm. Paparo: I would recommend we build greater resilience and that we beat them on market principles. I do want to go beyond my remit as a military officer.
▶ 1:10:53Sen. Scott: Let's talk about naval readiness and the c-130s. The marine corps and air force are 100% recapitalized on the c-130. The navy needs over 30. The program for this critical tactical airlift platform. The navy only has one other contract. Does that concern you? Should we do some thing about it?
▶ 1:11:14Adm. Paparo: As discussed with senator ernst, sustainment is in fact what one the second world war. That is what our adversaries believe and have studied. Everything that confers to her ability to execute. The c-130 is one-of-a-kind with that short field operations and capacity, it remains absolutely relevant and indispensable today. We can't neglect it. If the key you ready for indopacom.
▶ 1:11:40Sen. Scott: Is there a role for unaccrued airlift capabilities in the contested logistics environment?
▶ 1:11:46Adm. Paparo: The precepts of unmanned is never sent a human being to do something a machine can do. Inherently we are moving in that direction. I would welcome the ability to execute that lift.
▶ 1:12:04Adm. Paparo: It would give me the ability to diversify the places we do bring smaller payloads into simultaneously smaller maneuvering units and enhance our ability to sustain by this e speedway confer.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. Scott: General mahoney said 13 of 32 amphibious ships are ready. How does this impact your ability to do your job?
▶ 1:12:31Adm. Paparo: The amphibious fleet is indispensable. The whole principle of sustaining and moving a force. Ships move people, mass, and energy from one place to another efficiently. Howard fabius forces are under resourced and not ready enough.
▶ 1:12:54Sen. Scott: Thank you.
▶ 1:12:55Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator shaheen.
▶ 1:13:00Sen. Shaheen: Thank you both for your service and for being here today. Admiral paparo, I think I understood you to say that we must be active across the information environment. So, one thing that has happened in the last month is that we have stopped -- we pulled the plug on voice of america and radio free asia.
▶ 1:13:30Sen. Shaheen: We had a hearing in the foreign relations committee earlier this year where it was pointed out to us that china is spending over $1 billion a year, billion with a b, on information systems and efforts to provide mis and disinformation across the region in the world. -- and the world. What are we doing to counteract? How does the loss of something like radio free asia affect their ability to counter what the prc is doing?
▶ 1:14:00Adm. Paparo: China and its political works division and its united front is incredibly active, effective, and untruthful in the information space. The delivery of truthful information really bolstered by free speech having respect for everybody and everybody's ability to discern truth from lies, is absolutely vital.
▶ 1:14:29Adm. Paparo: We do have an effort that is where special operations command is nested within this unit to execute information operations but it is focused in the military space, as it should be, given the fact we are in the military. In my opinion, we must work hard to counter p.r.c.
▶ 1:14:52Adm. Paparo: Misinformation and disinformation and our own principles of free speech greatly enables that faith in people to be able to suss out truth from lies.
▶ 1:15:08Sen. Shaheen: Can you talk about why that matters when we are talking about military conflict?
▶ 1:15:12Adm. Paparo: It matters because in order for us to achieve the effects of expanded maneuver, our network of alliances and partnerships is the strategic center of gravity in the united states of america.
▶ 1:15:28Adm. Paparo: Inherently, because governments are accountable to the people they serve that public opinion will have a great bearing on whether or not those allies and partners are a party to enable a coalition because the bigger the coalition, the greater the legitimacy, the greater the capability.
▶ 1:15:50Sen. Shaheen: Clearly, we need to do better. General brunson, south korea and japan recently renewed negotiations with the prc toward free trade talks that had been stalled since 2012.
▶ 1:16:06Sen. Shaheen: I am concerned the tariffs that have been announced and withdrawn and announced and withdrawn are pushing our allies toward closer trade and integration with countries like china and that poses security risks. From an integration and cooperation perspective, do you see any challenges that would be posed by renewed economic talks between china and our closest allies in asia?
▶ 1:16:34Gen. Brunson: Ma'am, I will answer by what I'm saying on the peninsula right now. My concerns would be my hackles would raise, if you will, and I will let my boss answer for the wider region, but if we were not continued to move along the pathway for the bilaterally agreed-upon transfer, if we were not able to move on that path by way of economic challenges facing the nation, that would bother me.
▶ 1:17:02Gen. Brunson: If we had impacts that led to lessening human and procedural interoperability coupled with technological and dropout loop ability -- interoperability being lost, that would be a concern.
▶ 1:17:13Sen. Shaheen: And I think admiral paparo made a good case on the economics in response to senator cotton's question, but I want to ask a follow-up on this with respect to the political dynamics in the republic of korea, which he referred to in your opening testimony the democratic processs playing up but we expect an election and are there concerns that depending on the outcome of that
▶ 1:17:43Sen. Shaheen: Election that will affect our relationship with r.o.k.?
▶ 1:17:48Gen. Brunson: The realities of the region, where it says, the adversaries which they can impose costs upon is going to keep us in good stead going forward.
▶ 1:17:59Sen. Shaheen: Thank you.
▶ 1:18:00Chair Wicker: Senator budd.
▶ 1:18:05Sen. Budd: Thank you. Thank you for being here. Good to see you again. Last week fresh rotation of fodder units arrived including 36 fighter squadrons from johnson air force base. Can you speak to their mission while deployed and how they fit into the larger strategy, admiral?
▶ 1:18:26Adm Paparo: Good morning. Kennedy air force base on the wing there is a critical, mobile, dynamic capability that is just not fixed in kadena but has the ability to move throughout the area of responsibility under the principles of agile combat employment.
▶ 1:18:50Adm Paparo: So this is our on point contact layer, immediate ability to impose costs, immediate ability to achieve ephemeral air superiority in the ao are and it is a foundation on which the larger -- the larger forces that would flow in in the event of a conflict rests.
▶ 1:19:18Adm Paparo: And the air force is the headquarters in your coda with the wing in masala and kadena. It is crucial.
▶ 1:19:29Sen. Budd: Thank you. Heaven forbid, we hope this never happens, but should it fail in the region, jesse strike eagle have a role -- does the strike eagle have a role to play that cannot be accompanied by other fighters?
▶ 1:19:41Adm Paparo: Yes, sir, does. With the f-15 coming on board and its dominant electronics warfare capability in addition to the already dominant elements of range, speed, sensors, and payload of the mighty eagle, former eagle pilot myself on exchange, but without -- indispensable.
▶ 1:20:09Sen. Budd: Thank you. I will switch gears a little bit. Can you about elaborate on the demand for special operations forces and how your currently resourced to meet those demands? General, we will start with you.
▶ 1:20:21Gen. Brunson: Special operations command korea is augmented within our headquarters by some very particular intelligence assets, I would call them, that help us to best see, since, and understand on the peninsula itself. Commander presently by a one star national guard officer.
▶ 1:20:46Gen. Brunson: Very capable formation in terms of ensuring that our partners around the region, not just the koreans but all forces that come to the peninsula that train, maintain great awareness of not only the region but the discrete activities that might occur should they need to happen.
▶ 1:21:03Gen. Brunson: Most recently in the west see, we were able to during freedom shield, conduct an air assault while being in the daytime that allowed us to take the korean forces and bring them to a higher state of readiness than they had achieved previously.
▶ 1:21:17Sen. Budd: Thank you. Admiral, have talked about previously being under invested in sof. Do you care to expand?
▶ 1:21:25Adm Paparo: Currently, we have a counterterror operation that is ongoing in the south philippine islands operation pacific eagle. In addition, special persons forces are a critical contributor to our counter command control surveillance reconnaissance and targeting effort.
▶ 1:21:46Adm Paparo: In addition, special operations forces are actively augment and are a part of our intelligence collection. This is all notwithstanding the immediate ability to do some of the more traditional roles as direct action. I have been working closely with general fenton on this to be able to define to him exactly how much special operation forces that we have.
▶ 1:22:17Adm Paparo: I believe we want -- I know I want and we need more and I can gain a lot of early leverage and a lot of deterrent capability with more sof.
▶ 1:22:31Sen. Budd: Thank you. This increased military between dprk, russia, and china concern you as it relates to containing escalation on the korean peninsula? And if so, what does that mean for the role of sof in prevention? >> it does worry me. It worries me by virtue of the fact the things I am saying that sof helps us to see whether that be with their own uis or them doing operations in the region.
▶ 1:23:02Sen. Budd: Most recently during freedom shield, we saw chinese ships violate and come across the northern limit line in the west see in the east sea we had violation of the korean air defense identification zone. By the russians. And sing them work together along with the information, what was going on in the information environment, sof helps me to counter some of those things. North korea said, hey, they need to stop these illegal exercises working together with the U.S.
▶ 1:23:32Sen. Budd: And the r.o.k. Coming together. Then he had two other adversaries take action in the region which have to be countered. I don't mean countered in a kinetic fashion but they non-kinetic things that allows us to do that we might counter the information space and other domains to continue on with our mission.
▶ 1:23:52Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator kaine.
▶ 1:23:57Sen. Kaine: Thank you and thank you to our witnesses. Admiral paparo, the discussion has had a lot to him as it should, north korea, china. I want to ask about the cooperation that we are seeing some of our adversaries engage in.
▶ 1:24:15Sen. Kaine: In the indo pay calm, talk about joint activities between russia, china, north korea and the global -- growing closeness of the relationship and the threads that posed to the work we do with our allies.
▶ 1:24:30Adm Paparo: It is a transactional symbiosis where each state fulfills the other state's weakness to mutual benefit of each state. If for instance, china has provided 70% of the machine tools and 90% of the legacy chips that has enabled russia to rebuild its war machine and then coming back to china is potentially submarine quieting help as well as other help in
▶ 1:25:00Adm Paparo: Some of the areas where russia is strong. In addition, of got the north korea sending thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of artillery shells and thousands of kn-24 short range missiles to russia come as general brunson said, with the exultation of concessions coming back in the form of air defense, surface to air missile help, quieting -- help with their kilo submarine fleet, and so forth.
▶ 1:25:30Adm Paparo: And finally in the physical space this last summer, I saw the longest range joint patrol of a pla navy and russian pacific fleet formation in the bering sea. They are deepening their ability to operate together and their demonstrating that by going further afield and in bigger formation.
▶ 1:25:57Sen. Kaine: I would like to ask for your impression of the oppression of the baucus framework.
▶ 1:26:01Adm Paparo: It is going to come from a generational advantage on both countries. But I cherish the advantage it confers on the united states of america.
▶ 1:26:15Adm Paparo: I will say first of all, the ability to operate out of sterling in submarine rotational force west in sterling gives the american submarine force in indian notion port, -- indian oceanport, the ability to range the indian ocean without limitation.
▶ 1:26:39Adm Paparo: It is a straight shot to the south china sea, closer and faster than hawaii, san diego, bangor, maine. And in australia's contribution into the defense industrial base . 3 billion-dollar investment in the submarine --.
▶ 1:27:00Sen. Kaine: I imagine congress having that debate about whether we would invest. It would be a tough discussion. The effect it would be worth about the fact the australian parliament made that investment in the U.S. workforce demonstrates that an error which they're concerned about china.
▶ 1:27:17Sen. Kaine: One last thing here, I have fouled a resolution -- filed a resolution with a number of to turn off the global tariffs imposed by the president last week which are now somewhat on pause. I'm not going to ask about the policy. But I want to point out one of the reasons I filed the motion, primarily, it is a tax increase on american consumers but I don't think we should treat allies badly. I will use australia as an example.
▶ 1:27:46Sen. Kaine: You talked about how aukus is important. The president has imposed a tariff on australia. We have a trade surplus, not a deficit, not a deficit, australia. Why put a tariff on their products? How about other allies, japan, 25% tariff on japan. Why 25 percent? The measure of the tariff was not chinese trade barriers.
▶ 1:28:10Sen. Kaine: It was the trade deficit that we have with japan measured by deficit in goods. It did not include the full trade picture, goods and services. If you add in services, all these trade deficits actually get narrow because the U.S. is such a great exporter of services. But even if there is a trade deficit in goods with japan, of course there is. The trade deficit is -- we buy more of their stuff than they buy of our stuff.
▶ 1:28:42Sen. Kaine: Our population is three times the size of the japanese population. So, yes, we buy or japanese goods with 340 million people dan 120 million people buy of american goods. We are going to punish them for that? It makes no sense. Their primary reason I filed the challenges because I don't want to tax american consumers with big national sales tax.
▶ 1:29:07Sen. Kaine: The tariff strategy that punishes allies is no way to be strong in an international world where the U.S. has built allies over decades that provides some of our greatest edge, qualitative edge, his or adversaries. That is just in editorial comments. Thank you for your appearance.
▶ 1:29:30Chair Wicker: It surely is. Under the first amendment, you are entitled to that. But I did not hear a question so we will move along to senator duckworth.
▶ 1:29:41Sen. Duckworth: Thank you. Although I do endorse my colleague from virginia's editorial statement. Thank you for being here today and for sharing your assessment. One of my major priorities.
▶ 1:29:58Sen. Duckworth: Everyone knows I am trans,'s biggest advocate so I cannot cut your posturing like this without asking questions about the logistical environment that we will face if our nation's darkest days come and we must fight a war in the pacific foster preparing for the logistical realities of large-scale conflict is not only critical for the fight tonight scenario but it is also key to deterrence.
▶ 1:30:24Sen. Duckworth: We must demonstrate to our adversaries we have the capability to sustain a fight if necessary, even as they seek to contest that. To make it clear such a war would be costly for all of us. I applaud both your efforts to approve the logistical readiness of the force and our allies and partners but I do think there is more to do. I'll start off with medical readiness.
▶ 1:30:45Sen. Duckworth: We must improve our ability to provide life-saving care to wounded service members, including the regional hospital access and effective aeromedical evacuation. We are partners in the r.o.k., thailand, the philippines that have medical facilities that meet U.S. hospital certification standards. Those are opportunities for us to develop those relationships.
▶ 1:31:05Sen. Duckworth: The end of -- the marriage of environment than for the medical mission for some long gone -- we must to comprehensive planning to ensure our war fighters have foreign attica facility access in the indo-pacific. This is why I secured a provision in the this, your 25.
▶ 1:31:34Sen. Duckworth: As you implement this program, what are the primary barriers that hinder the necessary medical cooperation and how can this committee help as you begin that effort? Adm paparo: I strongly enforce your viewpoint and strongly endorse -- endorse your viewpoint and strongly endorse what is a concept of operation within what you are saying which is put the medical expertise of our allies and partners to ensure that can augment what our own medical providers can execute.
▶ 1:32:02Sen. Duckworth: One is medevac capability in order to get to the location. The agreements to do so, the ability to practice and exercise so it is not the first time we do it if the unforgiving hour comes. So I think some of the barriers are physical. That is lift, medical lift, medevac lift. And some of the barriers are I should say authorities.
▶ 1:32:31Sen. Duckworth: We would hope for more authorities to be able to broaden our ability to plan for bringing to bear the medical capabilities of our allies to care for the wounded in conflict. So thank you.
▶ 1:32:46Sen. Duckworth: General brunson?
▶ 1:32:49Gen. Brunson: One of the things you know, and I know you are full well aware of this, our health care comes from the community.
▶ 1:32:58Sen. Duckworth: The only agreement in r.o.k.
▶ 1:33:00Gen. Brunson: Yes, ma'am. What we are trying to do at all good hospital at the present time is have greater access to doctors routinely. I need them to be on the peninsula in times other than crisis or conflict. In competition, we want to bring them to the peninsula so they better understand the medical landscape and what might be required of them. We are also looking to u.n. Command.
▶ 1:33:30Gen. Brunson: Several nations provided hospitals during the korean conflict. We want the italians to come back with the hospitals again, the dutch as well. And those things we think we then provide to the greater indo pay, family that we might be another good resource use and time of conflict.
▶ 1:33:46Sen. Duckworth: Thank you. The sealift fleet. Do you agree indopacom would benefit from the ability to search replace was of naval auxiliary vessels or conduct battle damage maintenance of these vessels within the region, closer to the point of need?
▶ 1:34:09Adm Paparo: Strongly I urge for that.
▶ 1:34:12Sen. Duckworth: I am concerned they would be easy targets. What can we do to help you with that effort?
▶ 1:34:20Adm Paparo: As we enhance our protection capability, we enhance our ability to see and understand the operational environment, to build windows of opportunity, to execute sustainment capability. Nine classes of supply, medical and so forth. First is just the quantity. T the quantities ofake's, great tales, c-17's, tankers. That is critical.
▶ 1:34:51Adm Paparo: And in the ability to exercise it.
▶ 1:34:54Sen. Duckworth: What about sustainment with our allies like japan or r.o.k.? They have the capabilities.
▶ 1:35:02Adm Paparo: We frequently rely on one another to do this. While operating at sea, sometimes the necessity of having one leads us to use a japanese euler or american oil to refuel a coalition ship will stop we have to be able to -- japanese euler or american oiler to refuel a coalition ship.
▶ 1:35:29Adm Paparo: I would be more comfortable with our own ability to contribute to that effort with U.S. capability.
▶ 1:35:38Sen. Duckworth: Thank you. >> senator rosen. Sen. rosen: thank you, momentary substitute chair. Thank you actual chair senator wicker. And ranking member read. I want to thank and general brunson for your service, for your support and your care and everything you do. Thank you, thank you. I want to talk a little bit about attacks on digital infrastructure by the prc.
▶ 1:36:08Sen. Duckworth: Admiral, are growing concerned about the vulnerability of taiwan's digital infrastructure is highlighted by the frequent attempted sabotage of undersea internet cables. These events are part of a larger trend of gray zone operations where actions short of war, often involving nonmilitary forces or proxies are used to exert pressure to destabilize regions.
▶ 1:36:30Sen. Duckworth: The prc's reckless course and aggressive activities posed a threat to democracies around the globe and sabotage of those undersea cables has emerged as a particularly alarming tactic. These cables are essential for our global communications, transmitting around 95% of global internet traffic. Bolster our security security of our partners and allies.
▶ 1:36:57Sen. Duckworth: Admiral, while some experts view is it is like the damage to taiwan's undersea cables as merely a test or low level enhancement. Others warn that could be part of a broader chinese strategy to prepare for future coercion or even invasion of taiwan. Given this, what do you see as the actual threat these incidents post U.S. national security and what steps is the U.S. taking to effectively counter these digital threats?
▶ 1:37:25Adm Paparo: Senator rosen come as ever, are quite a student to identify this threat. Most certainly, that is an element of the intention come element of the design. They would do so likely with maritime militia which enables them to execute this operation without potentially signaling an intent to go to war but by weakening the information, enterprise of the states over
▶ 1:37:55Adm Paparo: Him there executing aggression. I think, one, the first is that the ability to penetrate from an intelligent standpoint and to be there in the locations where they would be otherwise cutting those cables in order to deter that activity.
▶ 1:38:12Adm Paparo: Second of all is the resilience to have other redundant networks that enable the states and partners, including the united states -- guam, hawaii, and so forth -- to achieve what we need to do in the information environment. That is proliferation and not just one single constellation, but multiple constellations.
▶ 1:38:37Sen. Rosen: Talk about how we can help taiwan bolster its digital infrastructure. What you think we could do to help them?
▶ 1:38:45Adm Paparo: I think enabling -- training them to be able -- I should not say training them. Enabling them to build that resilience that is required that if we are unsuccessful in our efforts to thwart their cable cutting, that there are other spectra and other means for information technology so they have the proper bandwidth to pro-choice dysfunctions they have in the latency that you get out of low-earth orbit, middle
▶ 1:39:15Adm Paparo: Worth orbit among the many commercial constellations that are going into orbit.
▶ 1:39:20Sen. Rosen: Thank you. I'm going to talk a little bit about north korean support to russia because we see a growing alliance between north korea and russia, particularly in the context of the ongoing war in ukraine. It presents new challenges for us in the united states and for our allies.
▶ 1:39:39Sen. Rosen: So we know north korea providing troops and munitions to russia and the partnership has potential to fuel the conflict and challenge the global order will stop it raises concerns about the effectiveness of existing diplomatic strategies and economic sanctions. To both of you, the partnership between north korea and russia poses a serious threat to global stability. In each of your views, how should the U.S.
▶ 1:40:03Sen. Rosen: Respond to north korea's military assistance to russia and what diplomatic or military strategies should we pursue to prevent further destabilization, not just there but within the international community.
▶ 1:40:20Gen. Brunson: One of the things you have to do is what we're doing presently. We have forces there on the peninsula that can impose cost on them. We also maintain lines to continue communications so we might not have miscalculation in the region at large whether that be on the mdl or across the northern limit line in the west sea. I think we are to continue to try to communicate out but make sure we are always prepared in the event of miscalculation.
▶ 1:40:54Adm Paparo: Hundreds of thousands of artillery shells and missiles and manpower is leaving north korea with the intent of gaining concession back. First, exposure in the international community is one.
▶ 1:41:12Adm Paparo: Not be shy about exposing this naked aggression using all instruments of national power to impose costs on individuals, to find -- to build the deterrent from this activity. As general brunson has talked about earlier, being wary of what is coming back and to be able to be in generations over match with what is coming back.
▶ 1:41:42Adm Paparo: Submarine quieting if it is their defense, if it dismissal technology. It is an area we need to work really hard.
▶ 1:41:50Sen. Rosen: . Appreciate it. I yield back.
▶ 1:41:52Chair Wicker: Senator banks.
▶ 1:41:57Sen. Banks: Admiral, I enjoyed our visit last week. We talked about slcm. Slcmn would be one of the best tools to deter china and the pacific. But can you talk a little bit about the capability gaps that it feels, why it is so important for payconm?
▶ 1:42:22Adm Paparo: I'm a strong advocate at the soonest possible he just because of the doubt it imposes, the potential to execute tactically. Presently, there is a gap between low tonnage and high tonnage which -- on which the, that gap is a critical -- it gives us a choice of suicide or surrender when we
▶ 1:42:53Adm Paparo: Have two default straight to strategic weapons. It gives us the ability to close that asymmetry. It also imposes doubt throughout the force and would change the calculus of aggression inherently just because of the nature of those weapons. We used nuclear weapons every single day because they deter.
▶ 1:43:20Adm Paparo: We use them by not using them, by having them be a potential deterrent. I am quoting Dr. brad roberts on that, who is quite the expert.
▶ 1:43:30Sen. Banks: How does that affect the chinese mindset, their decision-making? How does it deter them?
▶ 1:43:36Adm Paparo: It raises the cost and the implications of attacking any unit because it raises the stakes. Inherently, it provides more stability on each side because there is not an asymmetry to exploit.
▶ 1:43:55Sen. Banks: Lester's indy aa -- ndaa for slcm no land ndaa for slcm no lanter in 2024. Part of the biden administration said it was not needed. Do you agree there needs to be stability and a commitment from congress 20 oh did and navy to slcmn dispute of that process and get it here before the 2034 deadline?
▶ 1:44:20Adm Paparo: I agree 2034 is too late. Sooner, please.
▶ 1:44:26Sen. Banks: Good. I agree with that as well. Admiral, the army says it will field a long-range hypersonic weapon with a U.S. forces this fall. That would be the first U.S. hypersonic weapon we put into the field. How will this do hypersonic capability help you deter china as well?
▶ 1:44:45Adm Paparo: Senator, the nature of a hypersonic weapon is to close in time any actors kill chain. If your adversary can strike you five times faster than you can strike your enemy, it incentivizes first strikes with his capability. The coin of the realm the 21st century is speed. Who does things faster wins.
▶ 1:45:16Adm Paparo: The ability to close distance and execute before -- the ability to execute and then move in order to thwart counter fire and your ability to act on ephemeral intelligence for target to be able to reduce that cycle time from fine, fixed target track to engage, hypersonic's is critical to that and the asymmetry that exists right now and we must close it soonest with both the army's --
▶ 1:45:51Adm Paparo: With all elements of hypersonics, including the navy's strike which is also not moving fast enough for my liking.
▶ 1:46:00Sen. Banks: How much will it help you?
▶ 1:46:04Adm Paparo: I think it is step level change in our ability to gain early leverage and engagement and really any conflict.
▶ 1:46:16Sen. Banks: Thank you.
▶ 1:46:21Chair Wicker: I think senator kelly is next.
▶ 1:46:26Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Admiral, you are just discussing slcm and I do understand the need and desire for tactical option and theater certainly provides a certain level of deterrence. I get that.
▶ 1:46:46Sen. Kelly: One concern I have with upgrading virginia class submarines with this capability is how it impacts the conventional kinetic effect of that submarine. Admiral, would you agree one of our areas of over match with the chinese is in our submarine attack force?
▶ 1:47:09Adm Paparo: Strongly agree.
▶ 1:47:13Sen. Kelly: Do you have any concerns about the magazine depth for conventional torpedoes if we were to add a tactical nuclear capability to virginia class submarines?
▶ 1:47:26Adm Paparo: Inherently, it would occupy some of the vertical launch system tubes. Virginia class submarine. So there would be a cost.
▶ 1:47:39Sen. Kelly: Do you agree that the likelihood of using a tactical nuclear weapon is significantly less then the likelihood of using a conventional torpedo?
▶ 1:47:54Adm Paparo: Most certainly. There would be -- there would be a very high threshold to employ it.
▶ 1:48:03Adm Paparo: Are you concerned with having to take virginia class submarines temporarily out of the fleet and out of the aor in order to refit this capability?
▶ 1:48:18Adm Paparo: My assessment is there are ways we can do it quickly. However, I would rather not lose the availability.
▶ 1:48:30Sen. Kelly: How about the amount of security that would have to be put on the ship and how that affects the overall operation of the conventional attack role for the virginia class subs?
▶ 1:48:39Adm Paparo: My assessment is we have done it before. You and I lived in that navy. I am in favor of executing it and moving fast on the security requirement.
▶ 1:48:50Sen. Kelly: Thank you. I do understand the need and the deterrence factor. I am concerned we might go down a path that we find out, especially in a conflict, boy, I wish we had -- that each of these virginia class subs were full of conventional round. Thank you. Thank you for that come admiral. General brunson, there is recent reporting united states is considering withdrawing as many as 10,000 troops from eastern europe.
▶ 1:49:19Sen. Kelly: Which was signaled to putin our commitment to our allies and partners in that theater is waning. Additionally, ucom handed control of key logistics in southeast poland over to other nato forces. Again, highlighting this idea of wavering U.S. commitment to our allies. And to underpin all of this, there are rumors within the dod that the department will direct reduction of U.S.
▶ 1:49:47Sen. Kelly: Presence in south korea or re-task these forces to focus on the threat from china. General brunson, I acknowledge you cannot comment on the policy . I understand that. But from a strategic lens, what impact would a force reduction or a re-tasking of forces have on your ability to deter north korean aggression?
▶ 1:50:10Gen. Brunson: Senator kelly, the 28,500 troops we have in republic of korea are responsible wholly for preserving peace from the peninsula in the region in northeast asia. Their critical component to ballistic missile defense in the region.
▶ 1:50:31Gen. Brunson: They are a critical portion of helping the indopaycom in the north and to deter a great many adversaries. What we share with republic of korea does not mention adversary. That has always been the way it is. Should an adversary arise come the troops that are there prepared well along with our korean allies to meet any mission.
▶ 1:50:57Sen. Kelly: Do you feel your force is the right size?
▶ 1:51:02Gen. Brunson: For the missions given, yes.
▶ 1:51:07Sen. Kelly: What you assess the impact would be to our relationship with south korea and partners in the region if we downsized the force on the peninsula?
▶ 1:51:15Gen. Brunson: What I think we ought to do, senator, is remember there is diplomacy and defense on the peninsula currently. We share unique focus of being able to look at our partners eye to eye. Recently, received instructions to move assets. We were able to talk through those things. So we have got to make sure we use strategic clarity to explain what is being asked of our forces.
▶ 1:51:43Sen. Kelly: Thank you.
▶ 1:51:44Chair Wicker: -- I will recognize myself. It is great to see you. I always appreciate your testimony wasn't very clear I'd to the point. I have long been concerned about the chinese presence in the panama canal and what they might be able to do with that if heaven forbid something were to happen.
▶ 1:52:11Chair Wicker: Could you elaborate a little bit on how the closure of that -- let's assume that would happen come the closure of that or an interruption in its availability, how that would affect the flow of both combatants in support vessels to the region?
▶ 1:52:29Adm Paparo: Inherently, the geography, the alternative being all the way south around the horn, that is about a two week transit. Think about how critical it is to get forces on front. When the prc's intention is a short, sharp war that provides a fait accompli to the -- inherently, anything that slows us down over time and distance is bad for us.
▶ 1:52:58Adm Paparo: Consider all of the shipbuilding in the united states of america is eased of the panama canal with the preponderance of the threat is in the pacific. That just shows the inherent logic of the requirement for the panama canal as ever.
▶ 1:53:14Chair Schmitt: The concerns that we had when it was I think mistakenly given away are even more concerning now. As the orientation shifts to the indo-pacific in a more meaningful way. General brunson, good to see you.
▶ 1:53:31Chair Schmitt: I wanted to ask you and I know admiral paparo got a question somewhat related to this, but concerns about airlift capabilities and we don't have enough aircraft in many of our c130's don't have the survivability in a contested environment. Could you speak a little to the current limitations we would have supporting forces in the korean peninsula given our current inventory?
▶ 1:53:57Gen. Brunson: It is just the amount -- as we look at flows, sustainment and those things that are required to prosecute in the kgo, it is why we have begun to move. It is a recognition of what we have begun to move with the combined logistics command.
▶ 1:54:15Gen. Brunson: While we began to look at how we can set the theater now, looking at the stores of munitions I'm a some of which will expire soon -- how do we get those replaced in a quick fashion so we don't provide drain for sustainment things in order to prosecute the campaign? I am readily aware of the fact that I am fighting until help comes. That is what we are expected to do.
▶ 1:54:43Gen. Brunson: We are fighting to get -- we are fighting until they get there. A great many exercises are aimed at understanding what magazine depth is to be resident on the peninsula -- .
▶ 1:55:02Chair Schmitt: A lot of those plans are meant to address the fact we probably don't have the inventory that we need right now. Is that fair to say?
▶ 1:55:10Gen. Brunson: That would be accurate.
▶ 1:55:13Chair Schmitt: Admiral paparo, I think this is related as far as maintenance and availability and execution in the indo-pacific. There was recently I think a big win for the U.S. and our allies with the tanker mission in south koa and were also sickness obviously with submarine maintenance in australia. What is the next big step?
▶ 1:55:43Chair Schmitt: You've articulated I think rightly that speed is going to matter by the logistical hurdles in the vast expanse of the pacific -- I think it is hard for people who actually put their mind around it and she put a map up and you just see the expanse. What is the next big step to address those logistical challenges for us?
▶ 1:56:04Adm Paparo: Enrich the kind of work we are doing in the partnership yards. You deeper repairs for our ford deployed naval force is one step. If we can get them to the space of production of that capability, of enhancing the korean worldwide ship capacity, which is I think 23% of the global total is built in korea.
▶ 1:56:33Adm Paparo: Japan is 15% of global shipbuilding. The united states of america is 1% of shipbuilding. This confers immediately to speed. More maintenance being executed at these partner yards where it makes sense and then the next step and I've heard a lot of talk about this from all throughout government, which is to avail ourselves of our
▶ 1:57:04Adm Paparo: Partners unique shipbuilding expertise and then while we regain our own shipbuilding expertise in the united states.
▶ 1:57:12Chair Schmitt: Own showchairsen.
▶ 1:57:23Chair Schmitt: Own showchairsen:
▶ 1:57:23Chair Schmitt: Own showchairsen. Thank you for your service to know, exercise northern strike in michigan, that brings in participants all over the united states as well as our international partners to michigan's national all domain war fighting center, the largest training area east of the mississippi.
▶ 1:57:46Chair Schmitt: In past briefings before this committee, you discussed the importance of exercising northern strike to end opaque arm and particularly our ability to -- indopacom. Can you discuss the importance of supportingindopacom, please? >> senator, it is a key point of leverage.
▶ 1:58:15Chair Schmitt: And I have it in my report that those personnel that returned from northern strike are changed, so I treasure it, and I want more of this, and I want to expand it.
▶ 1:58:35Sen. Peters: : I'm happy to hear that, and you will know that I'm actually cosponsoring a proposal for the ndaa with senator slotkin to make northern strike from it funding permanent, and I certainly look forward to working with members of this committee to do that, and your words of encouragement I hope will help that process move along.
▶ 1:58:56Sen. Peters: General brunson, as you know, we are strengthening troop deployment sent to ukraine and efforts to modernize north korea's conventional forces. Meanwhile, china is mounting a pressure campaign on south korea through clinical interference of economic pressure, maritime disputes, cyber operations, targeting critical infrastructure, and the list goes on.
▶ 1:59:24Sen. Peters: So my question for you, sir, is how is ussk addressing threats, including military, cyber, and disinformation now proposed by both russia and china in this region?
▶ 1:59:43Gen. Brunson: Yes, senator, so one of the things that I believe in the future, whether it is in conflict or crisis, weprotect, t to recognize our posture which entails our organization and a host of capabilities has all got to be in the right place. Part of doing that is by utilizing the assets at artists a vote -- that are disposable and the authorities inherent in other nations that come to join us on the peninsula.
▶ 2:00:13Gen. Brunson: To sort of keep this clean, if you will, we are able to leverage the special operations forces within the republic of korea. You're able to leverage our own forces whether that be military for mission support team that operates inside and see spaces or is using them along with our j 39 to ensure we are not only heartening excess supports but we are also testing all our lines. As you know, senator, we fight off the citrix k network.
▶ 2:00:42Gen. Brunson: It is important we stay on that network with cyber defense teams and then encourage our partners to do the same thing, which is what we are doing right now to ensure that we limit access to our networks, protect our information properly, and look at those whole host of threats and how we might counter them on the peninsula.
▶ 2:01:00Sen. Peters: Very good. From your perspective, his or a risk that china and russia could coordinate actions on the peninsula to distract or perhaps divide U.S. attention from other strategic challenges, including taiwan or ukraine? How concerned are you about that? Gen.
▶ 2:01:16Sen. Peters: Brunson: I'm concerned about that from the perspective of how they might enlist the dprk to aid in some form of subterfuge, and activity, or anything else that might happen in the region to keep us from focusing wholeheartedly on the mission of indopacom and maintain a free and open indo-pacific.
▶ 2:01:38Sen. Peters: Adm paparo: --admiral paparo, fiscal year 2021, national defense authorization act, to strengthen our military capabilities and partnerships in indopacom region. It is a to boost deterrence against china by investing enforced posture, logistics, missile defense, allied cooperation. Sir, could you share some specific examples of how pdi funding has improved the U.S.
▶ 2:02:07Sen. Peters: Force posture or our readiness and what steps can we take to enhance or fully operationalize pdi?
▶ 2:02:15Adm Paparo: Senator, an example is the joint fires network and our ability to move fast in order to execute the fires function among joint fires faster. Our material improvements throughout the theater has enabled us to move faster. Enhancing pacific deterrence initiative, U.S. indopacom command is an advisor to the process.
▶ 2:02:43Adm Paparo: The services choose is specific deterrence initiative. Clr is 53% of the world, almost any joint force element that is acquired is applicable to the pacific. So more agency for united states indopacom and able to close the seams throughout the services would enhance the already good effect of pacific deterrence initiative.
▶ 2:03:12Sen. Peters: Thank you. Thank you again. >> senator sullivan.
▶ 2:03:20Sen. Sullivan: I want to thank you for your years of service, both of you. You both do a great job. I think we always say that. Same with your staffs. I have shown this chart to many, many, many folks here in the last few months. This is the action happening in the north pacific. Admiral, as you know come up in the arctic. Very aggressive russian, chinese actions.
▶ 2:03:51Sen. Sullivan: The unprecedented element of this is the joint task force nature. Russian strategic bomber test last summer in -- last three summers current joint russian chinese naval taskforces in our eez. Very aggressive. We need -- everybody has testified we need more infrastructure up there.
▶ 2:04:20Sen. Sullivan: Admiral, you and a classified hearing said we need to reopen this very strategic port navy base -- by the way, I did a little geography test. It is over 1000 miles west of hawaii. Those people have no clue. -- most people have no clue. Northcom commander has testified we need to reopen it. The cno has testified. Why do you think adak is so important, admiral?
▶ 2:04:46Sen. Sullivan: Adm paparo: senator, it is a further western point which would enable -- would enable an along with erickson, in order to gain time and distance on any force capability that is looking to penetrate. Russia's pacific fleet in russia frequently takes that great circle route through alaska.
▶ 2:05:11Sen. Sullivan: It would enable up to 10x the maritime patrol work on its aircraft coverage of that key and increasingly effective -- increasingly contested space.
▶ 2:05:29Sen. Sullivan: You testified in a classified hearing you think we should reopen that. Here you want to say that in the unclassified setting?
▶ 2:05:35Adm Paparo: We should reopen adak and enhance the ability to operate out of erickson.
▶ 2:05:42Sen. Sullivan: Thank you. It has three tiers. 28 thousand foot runways, hanger, 22 million gallons of fuel stores, one of the biggest depots anywhere on the planet earth. The cno sent a team up there, navy, state of alaska, northcom commander just reached out to me two days ago saying they're going to have a final report completed in the next two weeks post low, medium, the high
▶ 2:06:13Sen. Sullivan: Reopening scenario. Can you commit to this committee to work with northcom commander to get that report out in the next two weeks?
▶ 2:06:21Adm Paparo: I commit.
▶ 2:06:24Sen. Sullivan: You have plans with regard to northern edge in terms of that really important exercise, using adak, can you talk a little bit about that to the extent you can in an unclassified setting?
▶ 2:06:34Adm Paparo: The combat employment is the means by which we achieve more dynamism among the force. The 11th air force is based in alaska. That is an assigned force to the united states indopacom.
▶ 2:06:51Sen. Sullivan: With over 105th generation fighters.
▶ 2:06:53Adm Paparo: The preponderance of indopacom's fighters is in alaska. We will be exercising the agile combat employment concept in this summer's northern edge exercise.
▶ 2:07:08Sen. Sullivan: And adak is when reported that?
▶ 2:07:12Adm Paparo: There will operate out of adak.
▶ 2:07:16Sen. Sullivan: When the president after his election he put a statement out saying, we will ensure alaska gets increased defense investments as we fully rebuild our military, especially as russia and china are making menacing moves in the north pacific. That is from the commander-in-chief. I know I have races with you but it is a little bit of an issue.
▶ 2:07:42Sen. Sullivan: In terms of the urgency come as I mentioned, state of alaska, the value per corporation that is the great alaska native corporation that owns the land where in the U.S. navy were in adak a couple of weeks doing a site assessment. They will get that to a student. The corporation I've talked to come in great patriotic americans, alaska natives was served at higher rates in the military than any other ethnic group in the country, they would love to do a deal with the navy. 99 year lease or something like that. But you know who checks in with them once a year?
▶ 2:08:12Sen. Sullivan: On adak about leasing it?
▶ 2:08:17Adm Paparo: I would guess it is not a friendly power.
▶ 2:08:23Sen. Sullivan: It is a chinese shipping company that is in my view a front company for the pla. How embarrassing would it be to the pentagon or the navy these guys -- these guys would never do it. But if they weren't and somehow they signed a 100 year lease with "chinese shipping company does quote that is always adak, be embarrassing?
▶ 2:08:46Adm Paparo: On substance, I think it would be bad. This is the modus operandi in to belt and road initiative. Imagine having the belt and road initiative include alaska.
▶ 2:08:59Sen. Sullivan: One of them are strategic ports in the world. We have a sense of urgency on this. I look forward to working with you and the committee.
▶ 2:09:10Chair Wicker: I sense a sense of urgency. Senator blumenthal.
▶ 2:09:15Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you for your service. Admiral, I want to ask you some questions based on your extraordinarily impressive experience as an aviator as well as combatant commander. We are building new aircraft carriers at huge expense.
▶ 2:09:42Sen. Blumenthal: Are you concerned about their vulnerability in light of the increased chinese capabilities that you mentioned in your testimony, ai, cyber, hypersonic missiles? My guess is the everyday american sees an aircraft carrier as a huge sitting duck out there in the middle of the pacific. Are you concerned?
▶ 2:10:03Adm Paparo: It is a moving duck with the ability to defend itself. Unique among airfields as a mobile capability. It is not uniquely vulnerable but it is uniquely valuable. The prc seeing that value have made it, a, focus because they have every other fixed land-based targeting complete.
▶ 2:10:35Adm Paparo: It's value lay in the enormous variety and the enormous mass of fires. It is not more uniquely vulnerable to the prc, it is more uniquely threatening to the prc, which is why they are working so hard to strike it. I hear people say, well, and wargames release these aircraft carriers.
▶ 2:11:00Adm Paparo: The wargames must have a terrible simulator because I'm going to put them in harm's way judiciously and when they can strike and it will be my job to return those aircraft carriers to their home bases after they have done their duty. So I am no more concerned about aircraft carriers than I am about destroyers, submarines, squadrons, wings, battalions, regiments.
▶ 2:11:25Adm Paparo: But those fires are the massive fires that they bring are absolutely unique step level change above any other particular single unit. You pay me to find ways to protect those aircraft carriers along with everything else that is in the joint force.
▶ 2:11:48Adm Paparo: For every one air to surface missile, there are -- for every one maritime oriented missile, there are eight others that are designed to strike land targets. I note that. This topic comes up frequently, but you have my opinion on it. Instead of waxing into a culture of, well, we should give up on this paper -- capability.
▶ 2:12:19Adm Paparo: No, we should do something about it. We are doing something about it. That is well included in my integrated priorities list that I presented to the committee.
▶ 2:12:29Sen. Blumenthal: I think that answer is extremely compelling. Thank you for it. Turning to submarines and asking the same question in a different form, are submarines more vulnerable today than say three years ago, five years ago because of those advanced detection and countermeasures that the chinese or other adversaries put out?
▶ 2:12:57Adm Paparo: The prc is growing in their capability on anti-submarine warfare, I respect him for doing it. They are more vulnerable than they had been before and it equally confers -- take the steps that getting more margin the united states as a generational lead on summer income on undersea warfare. It remains critical, absolutely one of my highest priorities.
▶ 2:13:28Adm Paparo: The introduction of quantum computing could well enhance the prc's ability to flood the zone and to target submarines and to take that away. They are pushing sensors into the sea to find -- they're working very hard to find them. They're working very hard to counter them. Equal duty to protect those and preserve the unusual, the outsized combat capability of those submarines.
▶ 2:13:57Adm Paparo: I take a similar view of refusing to quite on a unique capability. And on that front, if I leave the space between the surface and the carmen line from our adversaries are going to flood that space with capability and become even more effective against our submarine force.
▶ 2:14:17Sen. Blumenthal: I thank you for both of those answers. Which I find very persuasive. We can't quit on those weapons platforms, we just need to make them more capable and stronger. I look forward to working with you on that mission. Thank you very much. Thank you both for your service to our nation.
▶ 2:14:36Chair Wicker: Senator slotkin will be in a new moment. Let me ask you a follow-up to senator blumenthal's line of questioning on submarines, we still need a lot more submarines?
▶ 2:14:52Adm Paparo: Strongly agree. We have to increase our production rates. We have to invest in the simmering industrial base. We had to increase the rates of the number of submarines and we have got to increase the availability of our submarines.
▶ 2:15:06Chair Wicker: You had a valuable exchange with senator banks about nuclear weapons. I understood you to say they are useful to us every day because of their deterrent effect. Is that correct?
▶ 2:15:25Adm Paparo: Yes, sir.
▶ 2:15:27Chair Wicker: Just because we don't often hear about this, the doctrine of the united states for years has been not to rule out a first strike. Is that correct?
▶ 2:15:43Adm Paparo: I affirm that.
▶ 2:15:45Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator slotkin.
▶ 2:15:50Sen. Slotkin: Glad to have you here. I would like to talk about strategies vis-a-vis taiwan and I'm sure you've got a lot of questions on this. I am trying as the cochair of the bipartisan taiwan caucus to understand what our approach is given that we talk about the chinese threat to taiwan. We talk about your in a period of vulnerability.
▶ 2:16:17Sen. Slotkin: We want to make sure to be particularly watchful about what is going on in chinese military intentions. At the same time, we are calling into question the commitments of allies we would need in any kind of contingency scenario.
▶ 2:16:39Sen. Slotkin: I think even the trump administration international -- enteral national defense strategy talks about the imports of allies and partners and I have seen public reports that say actually if there was a war with china over taiwan come if they try to take over taiwan, we could not manage that situation to satisfaction if allies and partners were not with us in that fight. So far away come the tyranny of geography, what we always talk about.
▶ 2:17:11Sen. Slotkin: I am just concerned our approach to allies and partners is threatening the very thing I think we believe in in a bipartisan basis on this committee that we need to have a muscular deterrent approach. Can you tell me about the value of allies and partners to to whatever you need to do in that region, understanding we are in an unclassified space, and the dependence we have on
▶ 2:17:42Sen. Slotkin: Other nations hosting our forces , allowing operations from their land -- can you walk me through it, please? >> allies and partners have an outsized effect. It is the strategic center of gravity of the united states of america. By having access and overflow with our allied partners we have the ability to achieve principles of expanded maneuver.
▶ 2:18:07Sen. Slotkin: That is to have multiple attack vectors across multiple domains where our adversary would potentially be putting -- focused on at one point threats coming from multiple points. It would confer legitimacy on the force. It confers greater access to free from -- to freedom of movement for the force.
▶ 2:18:33Sen. Slotkin: To the extent that allies and partners are participating in the operation, it enhances your capability as well. So across those fronts, allies and partners are critical. You do pay me to build a plan that does not fall on the loss of a partner. But the cost -- the bill comes in the form of people, capability, money, and time.
▶ 2:19:01Sen. Slotkin: The more partners and allies we have, the less it will be the bill across those domains.
▶ 2:19:08Sen. Slotkin: I guess my confusion comes with my view again, my view is a senator here, that this administration is in clement -- implemeting a strategy of kicking our allies in the teeth. I say that as someone who is in a border state next to canada. We can go to a concert in canada.
▶ 2:19:35Sen. Slotkin: The idea that we need partners to make deterring china affordable and approachable but that we are going to attack our allies, put tariffs on again and off again on these allies -- we are going to humiliate them in public, speak badly and ill of them, including countries we share intelligence with, is to me the most a strategic thing I have seen in a national security
▶ 2:20:06Sen. Slotkin: Approach to china. So for all someone claims they care about deterring a military threat from china, if your approach is -- thank you for your articulate description of how our allies and partners are the center of gravity, your words, I believe it to my core.
▶ 2:20:27Sen. Slotkin: I cannot say with a straight face that for all the huff and puff the administration puts on about china that they actually give a crap about deterring them because then you would not be alienating allies and partners who live around china. And I am watching the chinese put in a base in cambodia. It sounds like a terrible vulnerability for us that other allies and partners are cozying up to china, so I appreciate the work that you do.
▶ 2:20:58Sen. Slotkin: We depend on you. We need you all to do your work well, but I think whatever bravado the administration has about china -- the play is being undermined every day by the way they kick our allies in the teeth. I yield back.
▶ 2:21:14Chair Wicker: That concludes the hearing. We appreciate the testimony in the closed session and the open session and with that the hearing is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]