▶ 0:15:34Chair Cruz: Good morning. The senate committee on commerce science and transportation will come to order. Twice a year we find ourselves adjusting our clocks, shifting our daylight forward in the springs, falling back in the fall. For many americans this ritual is a minor inconvenience, something we endure without giving it much thought.
▶ 0:15:58Chair Cruz: When we take a closer look at the implications of changing the clocks, its impact on our economy, our health, and our everyday lives, we can see this practice is more than an annoyance. First let's talk about energy savings, which has long been the most common justification for daylight savings time. The original idea behind daylight savings time was to reduce energy consumption by making better use of daylight during the longer days of summer.
▶ 0:16:27Chair Cruz: Fewer hours of darkness meant less electricity consumption for lighting and heating. This concept might of made sense in the early 20th century, when our economy and our homes are light much more heavily on energy consumption tied to daylight hours. Today the data shows energy savings from daylight savings time are minimal if not entirely nonexistent.
▶ 0:16:56Chair Cruz: Advances in technology in lighting and climate control and climate control increase domestic energy production have drastically reduce the relative price of energy compared to the past. Changing clocks biannually impacts our health. Research has shown that the abrupt shift in time, especially the spring transition when we lose an hour of sleep disrupts our internal ckd and rhythms and causes sleep deprivation.
▶ 0:17:23Chair Cruz: This leads to increased risks of health problems, including higher rates of heart attacks, strokes, and even car accidents immediately following the time change. In fact studies have shown there is a spike in workplace injuries and fatal car crashes during the days after we shipped our clocks forward. The disruption of sleep patterns and the resultant fatigue can have consequences our productivity, mental health, and well-being.
▶ 0:17:52Chair Cruz: The time change is also an inconvenience for families. For parents, especially those with young children, adjusting to the time change is no simple task. Sleep changes can result in cranky children and a difficult adjustment period that can last for weeks. We also need to consider the economic and social impact.
▶ 0:18:17Chair Cruz: There are arguments that longer daylight hours in the evening can boost economic activity in certain sectors such as retail, tourism, and entertainment. Late afternoon golf leagues account for up to 40% of the annual revenue of some courses, while a majority of golf instructors reported that nearly 50% of their lessons are taught after 4:00 p.m.
▶ 0:18:43Chair Cruz: A golf course would lose an estimated $500,000 annually if it lost the extra hour of daylight in summer. Of course, the early birds who like 7:00 a.m. Tee times might be annoyed with the shift. Many states and countries like mexico and russia and turkey have already taken steps to move away from changing clocks twice a year. Hawaii and arizona have opted out of the practice.
▶ 0:19:11Chair Cruz: Other countries in the past 10 years have abolished it or in the process of doing so. Congress has the authority to end this outdated practice. This hearing is an excellent opportunity to examine a thoughtful and rational approach to how we manage time.
▶ 0:19:27Chair Cruz: Whether we lock the clock on standard time year-round or an daylight savings time, let's think carefully about our health , our economy and well-being come and embrace a sensible approach to time management. I will now turn to senator blunt rochester.
▶ 0:19:48Sen. Blunt Rochester: Thank you for holding this important hearing. In our increasingly connected world it is more important than ever that we are thoughtful about what it would mean to pick a permanent time for our country. The senate has tried this before, but the bill stalled as this body took a harder look at how time changes work state-by-state.
▶ 0:20:14Sen. Blunt Rochester: What works in my home state of delaware may not work in washington state but I know I speak for many americans when I say it is time to figure this out. People across our country are tired of the constant cycle of falling back and springing forward. Who has not forgotten to change their clock on their microwave. I think mine is still on the wrong time.
▶ 0:20:43Sen. Blunt Rochester: And felt the immediate panic of waking up late for work. Or think about the parents of young children and pet owners who have to adjust sleep and feeding schedules twice a year. Some would say these are just inconveniences. The back-and-forth between daylight savings time and standard time needs to change and needs to stop. We need to stop the clock. We need to find a solution and stick with it.
▶ 0:21:13Sen. Blunt Rochester: Many states across our nation have started to consider legislation to pick a permanent time. Some like delaware have pushed for keeping daylight saving time. The time we are in right now, permanently. Others have sought to keep standard time when we fall back permanently. Here is the thing. These twice yearly time changes have real impacts on real people.
▶ 0:21:41Sen. Blunt Rochester: We know changing the clock disrupts sleep, which can lead to negative health outcomes. Several studies have noted issues with mood disturbances, increased hospital admissions, and even heart attacks and strokes. We also know that being able to see the sun improves mental and physical health as well. More than that, time changes can impact the safety of our communities.
▶ 0:22:08Sen. Blunt Rochester: Darker commuting times increase the risk of injuries and even death on our way to school or work. My home state has one of the highest per capita rates of pedestrian fatalities. Dark roads with tire drivers make it more dangerous for pedestrians. The important thing is we land on something consistent and make smart investments to keep people safe.
▶ 0:22:32Sen. Blunt Rochester: There were programs we authorized in the bipartisan infrastructure law that focused on common sense safety improvements. They are set to expire this congress. I hope the committee will keep this discussion in mind when it comes time to reauthorize these infrastructure investments, investments that could light up dark streets and rumble strips to medians, turn chaotic intersections into roundabouts,
▶ 0:23:03Sen. Blunt Rochester: And more. These are the smart policy choices we can make to protect people year-round regardless of whether it is daylight saving time or standard time. The first step is getting us all on the same page. I'm looking forward to today's conversation about the competing health, safety, and economic impacts of choosing a permanent time for our communities and moving the ball forward on this important issue. Thank you Mr. chairman and I turn it back to you.
▶ 0:23:33Chair Cruz: Thank you. I have to say I think you set a land speed record from moving from the chair on the end all the way here and I will say that senator cantwell needs to watch her back. I am somewhat disappointed in your excellent remarks we did not get you belting out the course of cher's "if I could turn back time."
▶ 0:24:03Sen. Blunt Rochester: It is something that perhaps aside -- it is something that peps us up. Need the energy.
▶ 0:24:13Chair Cruz: Joining us a senator rick scott.
▶ 0:24:19Sen. Scott: Thank you for the opportunity. Senator blunt rochester, you've done a better job keeping receipt in this committee that I was able to. Thanks for introducing my bill the sunshine protection act. Senator cruz, I know it is been a tough week for you with the ncaa championship.
▶ 0:24:40Chair Cruz: Your time has expired. [laughter]
▶ 0:24:46Sen. Scott: My bipartisan sunshine protection act will end the twice yearly time change and make daylight savings time the national year-round standard. I have the support of 17 of my colleagues in the senate and the house companion from the great state of florida. I am sure all of us have heard from our constituents on this. The american people are sick of changing their clocks twice a year.
▶ 0:25:12Sen. Scott: It is confusing, unnecessary comment on outdated -- and outdated. American households have electricity now. We also help self-driving car's and cell phones. Changing the clocks twice a year proves more of an annoyance to families than a benefit. In 2018 I signed legislation that would allow florida to opt out of changing the time.
▶ 0:25:39Sen. Scott: Nearly does for a dozen other states have done the same pending federal approval that will come from passing the sunshine protection act. American people love having you next or hour of sunlight, especially my state of florida. That means more time you can enjoy outdoors with families. Studies also show the potential for reduced cardiac issues and seasonal depression. Benefits to the agriculture and overall economy with an extra hour of sleep.
▶ 0:26:06Sen. Scott: This is a commonsense change to simplify and benefit the lives of americans we have a great opportunity to get this done with president trump on board to lock the clock. I want to thank the committee for the consideration of the sunshine protection act. I'm optimistic we can get this passed and signed into law and finally lock the clock. Thank you.
▶ 0:26:25Chair Cruz: Thank you senator scott. You're welcome to stay if you like but I know you have a busy schedule so if you need to attend other responsibilities you can certainly do so. The game was great except for the final minutes. I would've liked to lock the clock with one minute remaining. That would've been an excellent idea.
▶ 0:26:51Chair Cruz: Our first witness is scott yates, the founder of the lock the clock movement. He started the movement to remove the biannual sure of changing the clock. Her second witness is jay karen, ceo of the national golf course owners association. Our third witness is Dr.
▶ 0:27:11Chair Cruz: Karin johnson, a practicing sleep medicine physician and professor of neurology at the university of massachusetts chan school of medicine baystate here on behalf of the american academy of sleep medicine. Our final witness is Dr.
▶ 0:27:26Chair Cruz: David harkey, the president of the insurance institute for highway safety, an organization dedicated to reducing deaths from energies, -- deaths, injuries, and property damage from motor vehicle crashes. Mr. yates, you may give your opening statement.
▶ 0:27:44Mr. Yates: Thank you so much writing me here today. Allow me to start with a hypothetical. Imagine two people commit the exact same crime on the exact same day. They are the same in every day but today one of them is out of prison in one of them remains behind bars. What is the difference? The second man was sentenced on monday after whispering forward into daylight savings time.
▶ 0:28:15Mr. Yates: Research at university of washington revealed every criminal sentence and found the single harshest day of sentencing and the whole year was that monday march when judges let all of us have been jolted awake in our earlier than expected. That one seemingly harmless government mandate mean some people receive harsher sentences than they otherwise would. The harm does not stop there. Both of your opening statements alluded to all the problems we have an peer-reviewed study showed heart attacks go up.
▶ 0:28:48Mr. Yates: Even miscarriages spike in those days following the spring switch. A study from the university of vienna found debts increase by 3% in this couple of days after the change. Medical errors go up, diabetics lose glucose control, crime goes up. Yesterday the journal of neurology published a report saying more people get migrants. Why do we do this? For the farmers? No. The story about the farmers was just a myth.
▶ 0:29:17Mr. Yates: It is created as a pr stunt in boston for shoppers to have more time to shop. He thought it would sound better if he said it was for the farmers. If it is such an outdated relic quite haven't we fixed it? It is probably because of this issue about we face about whether we should lock into permanent daylight or standard time. I've talked to thousands of people about this. Most people do prefer one or the other that much come they just want to stop the switching.
▶ 0:29:47Mr. Yates: There are valid arguments for either permanent choice. What should this committee do? My name is scott yates. I've have been writing about this for nearly a decade. I have this recommendation. Lock the clock after a two your implementation. If we wait until 2027 we continue to allow states to opt out and opt into standard time just as hawaii and arizona has done. This is fundamentally a states rights issue and a geography issue. Consider indiana.
▶ 0:30:20Mr. Yates: Indianapolis is roughly the same latitude of new york city but 700 miles west. For congress to force hoosiers to go to work and school in the dark only to accommodate new york city seems rude. As the commerce committee you have an interest in promoting a stable and predictable environment for commerce. This wise lacey -- that is why I suggest congress established trade 27 to permit lee into the clock changing nationwide.
▶ 0:30:47Mr. Yates: States would have -- I suggest accomplish -- I suggest congress establish 2027 to permanently end the clock changing nationwide. States would have time to hold elections to let people decide to elect -- to let people decide directly. I started that remark with that story about the judges.
▶ 0:31:16Mr. Yates: The reason researchers have found that is daylight savings time creates a natural experiment. Researchers can compare real-world results. Traditional experiments with lab rats scientists are careful not to change the clocks for daylight savings time for the rats because it is too disruptive. By closing question for you is this. At long last, can we treat our citizens with the decency we treat our lab rats?
▶ 0:31:45Mr. Yates: Thank you and I am open to any questions.
▶ 0:31:47Chair Cruz: Thank you for your very interesting testimony. Mr. karen?
▶ 0:31:53Mr. Karen: Morning. Thank you for asking me to enter testimony on behalf of the national golf course owners association on a pretty complex issue. We are headquartered in charleston, south carolina represent 4000 courses and resorts throughout the united states. A little bit about the golf economy.
▶ 0:32:16Mr. Karen: Many elected friends see golf as a game until it is time to talk about taxes, land use, water, employment, tourism, zoning, etc. What comes into view is an industry employing nearly 2 million people across 15,000 properties and 2 million acres of land so nearly 30 million americans can enjoy a great walk outdoors with strangers, friends, and family while hitting a little white ball.
▶ 0:32:46Mr. Karen: 75% of golf courses in america are open to the public and nearly $5 billion each year is raised for charitable causes through golf. I also understand golf outings can be an effective fundraiser for political campaigns. The health benefits of golf are well documented. We tend to disagree with golf twain's -- we tend to disagree with mark twain's assessment of golf as a good walk spoiled.
▶ 0:33:15Mr. Karen: Locking the clock does not change how much daylight we have, just where it shows up. For golf and many outdoor activities a ship can have significant economic and wellness implications. Golf thrives on recreational daylight, the overlap of sunlight in people's ability to be outdoors. Americans overwhelmingly perform evening recreation over early morning. This is not just about golf, it is about soccer, jockey, tennis, and more.
▶ 0:33:45Mr. Karen: Making standard time permanent would shift one hour per day from recreational to non-recreational daylight. Simplistically it traits 8:00 p.m. For 8:00 a.m. At golf courses later hours trade 70% more revenue than the morning.
▶ 0:34:05Mr. Karen: Trading backwards would cost the annual public golf course by removing the best inventory we have on our shelves, which is 37 rounds of golf, and would cost the industry $1.6 billion, or nearly $200,000 per course. This analysis only includes green fee revenue and does not include spending on golf cart rentals, golf lessons, and other areas of the business. Only 7% of our members support making standard time permanent.
▶ 0:34:35Mr. Karen: Those who favor standard time say their morning play is more valuable to that than their afternoon flight. These may be resorts that one players off the course and in the restaurants at a reasonable hour. Making daylight saving time permanent would provide additional recreational daylight from november to march and add an estimated 23 million rounds to the current golf inventory. This would give the industry a tailwind of $1 million or roughly $250,000 per affected facility.
▶ 0:35:06Mr. Karen: 64% of our members support making daylight savings time permanent. The status quo changing of our clocks twice per year avoids the significant downside while forfeiting the moderate upside. 27% of golf course owners and operators support keeping the status quo changing the clocks. Many golf courses slow down in the winter and enjoy having some relief later in the day for their employees.
▶ 0:35:32Mr. Karen: Or they may have a healthy clientele of older players who would prefer no disruption to their 7:00 teatime where there 11:00 bridge game. All of these -- their 7:00 tee time or their 11:00 bridge game. These figures do not include private clubs which would affect these figures. The senate is placing a classic gordian knot. Be winners or losers depending on which way the knot is cut.
▶ 0:36:01Mr. Karen: Our members strongly supports daylight savings time and oppose standard time. The benefits of outdoor recreation are significant. Obesity, depression, and crime all have ties to reduce daylight and sedentary lifestyles.
▶ 0:36:21Mr. Karen: We urge the senate to avoid the consequences of permanent standard time and encourage solutions that preserve evening daylight for golf, for health, for recreation, and local economies. Thank you.
▶ 0:36:33Chair Cruz: Dr. johnson?
▶ 0:36:35Dr. Johnson: Thank you. Thank you for having me. My name is Dr. karin johnson. I am a neurologist and practicing sleep medicine specialist in massachusetts and I'm here represent in the american academy of sleep medicine. I want to extend my gratitude to chairman cruz for having this timely hearing.
▶ 0:36:58Dr. Johnson: In december president trump called to end daylight savings time in his make america healthy commission's mandate to reduce chronic diseases, especially in children aligns with permanent standard time. Unfortunately permanent daylight savings time and the sunshine protection act to the opposite. I have three main takeaways. First the spring clock change to daylight saving time is bad, but permanent daylight savings time is worse.
▶ 0:37:25Dr. Johnson: Year-round standard time is the natural healthy choice promoting physical health, mental health, performance, and safety. Third, history supports that permanent standard time is the only viable solution to end the seasonal clock change. Let me write -- let me elaborate. The majority of americans want to lock the clock but it has been more inconsistent about how to ditch the switch.
▶ 0:37:53Dr. Johnson: In march there was a new poll that showed a significant shift in public opinion with twice as many americans now supporting permanent standard time over permanent daylight savings time. 60% of americans and 80% of teens do not get the recommended amount of sleep. There is a lot of room to improve sleep. Think about how you and your children feel after a bad night sleep.
▶ 0:38:18Dr. Johnson: Maybe you forgot an important meeting, drifted out of your lane, eating the extra bowl of ice cream. I know I have done those things. You may have struggled to get your teenager out of bed or been short with your husband. Instead, think about how much better you feel and function after a good night sleep. Permanent standard time would give more americans the opportunity to improve their sleep without trying.
▶ 0:38:48Dr. Johnson: The sun is one of the most powerful drivers of health and well-being but the timing of sunlight is critically important. Without enough morning light or with too much evening light our circadian rhythms delay. This disrupts our sleep patterns and our body and brain functions. Permanent daylight savings time will add sunlight depriving us of critical morning light.
▶ 0:39:16Dr. Johnson: This is why permanent daylight saving time would be exponentially worse than seasonal daylight savings time. The adverse affects are greatest in our children and teenagers and other night al whose bodies clocks -- and other night owls whose body clocks already run late. There are benefits that occur with the change in the spring -- there are events that occur with the change in the spring including strokes and heart attacks. Brain function is really affected by sleep.
▶ 0:39:48Dr. Johnson: We heard about judges making harsher statements. These harms do not mean permanent daylight savings time would be better. Instead the later sunrise and sunset of daylight savings time lead to higher risk of chronic diseases, included but not limited to cancer, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, these outweigh the short-term risks of the time change.
▶ 0:40:15Dr. Johnson: There is also data that says permanent standard time also results in better mental health outcomes, including reducing rates of depression and suicide. This is not surprising as morning light and healthy sleep are known treatments for depression up on the other hand, poor sleep increases the risk of drug use and other risk-taking behaviors. There is some misconceptions I want to address.
▶ 0:40:42Dr. Johnson: Permanent daylight savings time does not make days longer nor it is the reason people feel better in the summer. Instead permanent daylight savings time is a hidden mandate to wake americans up an hour earlier. Their alarm clocks rather than the sun. If we called it the go to work in our earlier act rather than the sunshine protection act no one would be voting for it.
▶ 0:41:07Dr. Johnson: Permanent daylight savings time does not increase overall exercise levels and even if some people exercise more, obesity and heart disease are still more prevalent. There is no cash darkness comes with -- while darkness comes with health and safety risk daylight savings time is not the solution. There is no data to support that permanent daylight savings time would reduce crime in motor vehicle crashes.
▶ 0:41:37Dr. Johnson: Later sunrise and sunset are associated with 20% more fatal crashes. The negative impact of daylight saving time on our sleep and brain health harms the economy. Workers with start times before 8:30 less likely to be productive and efficient. Workplace injuries rise after the transition to daylight savings time and care spending increases. On the other hand permanent standard time improves academic success in our children with higher test scores.
▶ 0:42:06Dr. Johnson: Your constituents utility bills would be lower with permanent standard time by reducing heating and cooling costs. The U.S. tried and quickly abandoned permanent daylight savings time twice before, most recently in 1974. It does not work and will not last. For those serious about ending clock changes, permanent standard time is the only viable solution. Please refer to my written testimony for more details and I'm happy to refer to the questions later.
▶ 0:42:34Chair Cruz: Thank you very much. Dr. harkey?
▶ 0:42:39Dr. Harkey: Thank you for the opportunity to share research on the implications of daylight savings time. In discussing any topic of road safety in the united states is important to set the stage. We are in a road safety emergency. Crash deaths have risen 30% since 2014 from below 33,000 to more than 42,000 in 2022. Pedestrian crashes have reached crisis levels.
▶ 0:43:11Dr. Harkey: Climbing more than 80% from their low point in 2009. Changing the clocks twice a year is relative to road safety because it affects the amount of ambient light during peak times for travel. We know darkness is associated with increased risk of fatal crashes. We do about a quarter of our travel at night and nearly half of motor vehicle occupant debts and three quarters of pedestrian deaths are in the dark.
▶ 0:43:37Dr. Harkey: August lee adjusting the clock cannot increase the number of daylight hours but generally shift how they align with work and school schedules. Since people travel at all times of day and the risk created by darkness varies by road use or type, the effects of these time changes on crashes are complex. The aim of our recent study was to examine the effect of changes in light conditions associated with the beginning and end of daylight savings time.
▶ 0:44:06Dr. Harkey: We examined 10 years of fatality data for the five weeks before and after each time change and only considered crashes before 4:00 a.m. And 10:00 p.m. Between 3:00 p.m. And 9:00 p.m.. Ambient light conditions were calculated using the sunrise and sunset times corresponding to the geographic ordinance of each crash. Crashing resulting in vehicle occupant debts fell 7% in the five weeks after the fight -- after the time change in the fall and increased 12% in the five weeks after the time change in the spring.
▶ 0:44:38Dr. Harkey: The opposite was true for crashes resulting in pedestrian or bicyclist's death. Those crashes rose 13% in the fall and declined 24% in the spring. The net effect was 26 fewer morning and evening crashes with pedestrian or bicyclist fatalities per year and 29 additional morning and evening crashes with vehicle fatalities.
▶ 0:45:04Dr. Harkey: It is important to emphasize our study does not point to a preference for standard time or daylight savings time based on road safety alone. The clearest take away from this research is there is a strong relationship between increased darkness and fatal crashes, particular for pedestrians and bicyclists. This is consistent with previous studies, including her own work from 30 years ago examining the effects of daylight savings time.
▶ 0:45:34Dr. Harkey: While the clock may not hold the answer to our road safety crisis there are known solutions for protecting's just rinse in dark and low light conditions and reducing the crash told overall. We should commit to infrastructure improvements shown to increase safety for pedestrians and bicyclists on roadways in urban, suburban, and rural environments.
▶ 0:45:57Dr. Harkey: This includes engineering treatments to improve motor showing behavior and technology such as better headlights and emergency braking. Efforts are needed to address speed on our roadways. The speed effect is more pronounced for pedestrians and bicyclists that do not have the benefit of the vehicle structure to protect them. Speed limit policy enforcement engineering and vehicle technology all have a role to play in slowing down drivers.
▶ 0:46:25Dr. Harkey: Such a multi prong strategy to improve pedestrian and bicycle safety at night exemplifies the safe system approach. Dot has adopted this as the guiding paradigm of the national roadway safety strategy. Implementation has been too slow. We are alarmed by the rising toll of crashes on her nations rose and dismayed by the lack of urgency to fix the problem. For this reason we recently launched an initiative we are calling 30 by 30. The goal is to reduce U.S.
▶ 0:46:59Dr. Harkey: Fatalities 30% by 2030. Achieving this reduction will require a concerted effort by all stakeholders. We will increase our efforts to address risky behaviors, seek opportunities to improve safety for everyone inside and outside the vehicle come and explore ways to make commercial vehicle fleet safer. We asked everybody who cares about the needless loss of life on our roadways, including this committee, to think about what they can contribute to achieving the 30 by 30 goal. Thank you.
▶ 0:47:32Dr. Harkey: >> thank you. You will notice the freshmen have taken over this committee. I am pleased to be here. John curtis from utah. Thank you panel for this important topic. It is fair to say my constituents share the same frustration that has been articulated by the back-and-forth. Mr.
▶ 0:47:56Dr. Harkey: Gates, he mentioned the only reason we still have this time change after six months is due to the federal government's inability to decide between standard and daylight savings time. Based on your research you have any indication how many states would opt out and maintain permanent standard time if your proposal for permanent daylight savings time were enacted?
▶ 0:48:18Mr. Yates: Thank you for the question. I do not have a specific answer. I can talk about some of the conversations I've had with state legislators including the sponsor of the bill. He said all of his constituents told him the state -- everybody pervert to stay in daylight time in utah -- everybody preferred to stay in daylight time in utah.
▶ 0:48:46Mr. Yates: Utah might be a case where standard time ip a good option and that is why I think the two here would be a great chance for everyone in utah.
▶ 0:48:54Sen. Scott: -- Sen. curtis: your correct. We have passed legislation to stay on permanent daylight savings time. Why shouldn't states have the right to make the decision? Don't they know best about what they want for their constituents why are we giving more accommodation to states, particular in utah who have spoken so vocally about what they would like?
▶ 0:49:20Mr. Yates: Are you asking is there way the states could opt out?
▶ 0:49:26Sen. Curtis: My point is states know what is best for them. Some states like utah have a preference and somewhat go the other way. My question is let me tie that into the next question. We could see a patchwork which I suspect might be the answer.
▶ 0:49:46Sen. Curtis: Utah, we about arizona and my whole life we watched arizona mock us as we all change our times and somehow we have navigated that just fine. I would also bring up technology is in a very different place than it was years ago. You worry about a patchwork or are we ok?
▶ 0:50:07Mr. Yates: Thank you for the question. I think less complexity in the system is better. It is natural to think there would be a patchwork if we allowed more states to opt into standard time, but we have a patchwork now. What we would be creating is less of a patchwork because the lines might change a little bit.
▶ 0:50:32Mr. Yates: Indiana may decide it is better for the whole state to be in central time with chicago which is 1000 miles from boston. It would not create a patchwork, it would create a change in where the line is. The first and most important thing is decreasing -- illuminating the clock changing, which decreases complexity. Once we have that stability it will not be a patchwork. It will be we know what time is it in indiana.
▶ 0:50:59Sen. Curtis: Is the way we have accommodated with arizona. And to be honest we already have these lines and they do just fine. For the record I'm a strong advocate of letting my state do what they prefer to do and I feel like they know how to make those decisions best. I will use a little bit of time for a very interesting personal question, Dr. johnson.
▶ 0:51:24Sen. Curtis: Given all the effects we have heard about, what is the likelihood that if somebody had a profession where they were moving across the country twice a week and changing time zones one hour or does hour or three hours, that they would be subject to those same problems?
▶ 0:51:40Dr. Johnson: A lot of us can relate to jet lag. One thing that happens with jetlagged is you are moving to a new time where the sun is in the sky. We adjusted that within a day or two, we get to the new time zone, depending on how far we are going. What happens with going to permanent daylight savings time is we are changing the clock time but not changing the sun.
▶ 0:52:07Dr. Johnson: That is why there is a perpetual misalignment that has more stresses and farms to our body over the long run. Very frequent time travel with a lot of adjusting is a big strain on the body. For most people that do not do it all the time we adjust within days and we can get that better health and more alignment of our rhythms within days.
▶ 0:52:29Sen. Curtis: Unless within days you're going back to the previous time zone.
▶ 0:52:33Dr. Johnson: That is why really frequent is not good.
▶ 0:52:36Sen. Curtis: I've made my point. I will yield to the ranking member.
▶ 0:52:41Sen. Blunt Rochester: Thank you to my fellow freshman and classmate senator curtis and thank you to senator cantwell for the opportunity to be a ranking member today. I also want to thank the witnesses. This is one of the issues that a lot of times we will get messages from our constituents, people have strong opinions.
▶ 0:53:04Sen. Blunt Rochester: I was in a meeting before this with the ceo of a company who asked what do you think, so this is something that does touch on so many. I want to start my question with you Dr. harkey. Because year-round daylight savings time would be later sun rises in the mornings, more people may be commuting to work or school in the dark. Some people have raised concerns that this would put children at greater risk of being hit by cars while walking to school.
▶ 0:53:37Sen. Blunt Rochester: Pedestrians are more likely to be killed in traffic accidents as you stated because it is harder for the drivers to see them. In the 1970's it was widely reported that mothers raised significant concerns about their children walking to school in the dark in the winter. Nationwide over 70% of fatal accidents involving pedestrians occur at night. Dr.
▶ 0:53:58Sen. Blunt Rochester: Harkey, no matter what time the sun goes down, what roadway improvements can cities and states make to reduce pedestrian fatalities?
▶ 0:54:08Dr. Harkey: Thank you for the question. That is exactly what our study indicated. It is not the shifting of the time. We will have darkness regardless of which decision you make. What we are looking for is to try to figure out how we make pedestrians and bicyclists safer in those dark hours, whether they are in the morning or in the evening.
▶ 0:54:45Dr. Harkey: State dot's struggling to address this issue. One is space. We have to provide appropriate sidewalks. In rural areas they could be separated. Places for people to walk where they are not at the edge of the travel lane. We also have to take care to provide careful crossings. We have to pay particular attention to how we are allowing motor vehicles and pedestrians to interact.
▶ 0:55:20Dr. Harkey: We have to have appropriate crossings. Pedestrians will not walk too far. We want to make sure you providing adequate crossings where they want to cross and then you have to do all you can to provide the kinds of traffic control devices that increase behavior. This includes things like rapid flash beacons which have been soon to increase motor showing behavior sixfold.
▶ 0:55:47Dr. Harkey: You can build on that, adding simple things like lights that are triggered when a pedestrian hit the crosswalk area and will light up that crosswalk. You can double the amount of yielding behavior. These are interventions that are been proven over time and it is important for state agencies to take advantage of those interventions and get those implemented anywhere they have pedestrians.
▶ 0:56:13Sen. Blunt Rochester: Following along on the safety theme, what vehicle technologies can help protect pedestrians when it is difficult for drivers to see them?
▶ 0:56:23Dr. Harkey: This is another important aspect and this builds on the safe system approach, building the redundancy into the systems. You do not rely on the infrastructure and build technology and vehicles. Two big themes we have studied, one is better headlights. We did the only group in the world that test headlights the way we do on our track. We have seen improvements in headlights over the years and increased visibility and provide drivers with additional time.
▶ 0:56:54Dr. Harkey: They can see that pedestrian further down the roadway. That is a big change and we will continue to push for that. The other is automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection. That has been shown to work can be very effective in reducing pedestrian crashes in the daytime and our testing is focused on getting automakers to improve those systems to work even better at nighttime. That is an example of two technologies in a vehicle that can be really beneficial.
▶ 0:57:21Sen. Blunt Rochester: One of the things I have noticed is our safety efforts are siloed. You have the federal highway administration, which builds and maintains highways. You have the national highway traffic safety administration which regulates vehicle safety standards and investigates defects, then you have the federal motor carrier safety administration which oversees commercial motor vehicles and trucking industry safety all working separately back to what
▶ 0:57:54Sen. Blunt Rochester: You are talking about -- how can we better layer safety measures to help stop deadly crashes?
▶ 0:58:02Dr. Harkey: You're absolutely right. Built on top of the separation in the federal agencies you just discussed, you have state dot, you have county dot, you have city dot. It becomes quite the web of how you make decisions when it comes to road safety. One of the things we have to do a better job of is communicating between those agencies deliberately. There is no single authority.
▶ 0:58:33Dr. Harkey: That has complete authority over every decision in a roadway system when it comes to safety. These agencies have to do a better job of communicating and not just at the executive level, but at the staff level. It is at the staff level where people know what interventions work best and how to apply those in a way you create that redundancy in the system we were talking about.
▶ 0:58:57Dr. Harkey: Whether it is infrastructure, whether it is vehicle, whether it is changing behaviors, the communication amongst the staff is critical.
▶ 0:59:05Sen. Blunt Rochester: Thank you and I'm really interested to hear by your 30 by 30. In the interest of time I will yield back to the chairman.
▶ 0:59:14Chair Cruz: Thank you very much. I want to thank each of the witnesses for being here on what is a very interesting and important topic and a complex topic. There are very real and complicated issues and countervailing arguments on both sides.
▶ 0:59:34Chair Cruz: I think there is widespread agreement on locking the clock but where to lock it -- the reason we are holding these hearings is because these are real arguments they have real impacts on people. Let me start on the health side. Dr. johnson, can you expand on the impact sleep deprivation has on our overall health, our minds, our moods, and on young children for her we note -- for who we know sleep is so vital.
▶ 1:00:04Dr. Johnson: Thank you for asking about that. Sleep has different aspects. One is how much we sleep. The quality and timing of sleep. Any disturbance and that can affect how we do. Even if kids get enough sleep, if they do not get enough during the week and catch up on the weekend they did not do as well.
▶ 1:00:31Dr. Johnson: Sleep and our circadian rhythms really regulate every aspect of our body. Our metabolism. They affect our choices of food. You are more likely to grab a celery stick when you got enough sleep but grab that bagel when you are sleep deprived. Athletic performance when people do sleep. Academic success in school.
▶ 1:00:58Dr. Johnson: Mental health has some of the most deep connections to sleep health. That is why even though people feel better when they see light, it is the timing of light and our circadian rhythms that is so deeply intertwined that if we can improve sleep, if we can improve those rhythms we see lower rates of depression overall, we see lower rates of suicide.
▶ 1:01:23Dr. Johnson: There was just a new study that came out last week showing 6% higher rates of depression when the sun rises or sets later, when we lose that critical morning light. This gets exponentially worse in the winter when you lose the light in the morning. Texas and the southern states lose that morning light for a longer period of because of the curve of the earth. You get three to four months with it being dark after 8:00.
▶ 1:01:55Dr. Johnson: Some of the darkest places in the country are actually in western texas if we were to go to permanent daylight savings time. That is why 1974 the push to end our experiment with daylight savings time was pushed by states like florida and texas in the southern states.
▶ 1:02:12Chair Cruz: Can you also explain why consistent sleep patterns are important 14 brain development and mental health?
▶ 1:02:20Dr. Johnson: This goes back to our circadian rhythms. When our circadian rhythms are working well they help us anticipate our day. What I mean is we have times when our body wants to go to sleep and so teenagers natural rhythm is later. If any of you have been around a teenager you cannot just say go to bed. We have a forbidden zone.
▶ 1:02:48Dr. Johnson: Their alertness skyrockets in that time before bed. They cannot get to sleep on time. If our social schedule is set in our earlier which is what daylight savings time does they do not have that opportunity to get the amount of sleep they need and they tend to switch back-and-forth on weekends that switching effects us. That then affects our brain functions.
▶ 1:03:17Dr. Johnson: We know more about sleep being important for clearing toxins in our brain, which sets us up for things like dementia, parkinson's disease. I just came back from an euro conference with data pointing to the connections there. Our metabolism gets off so we are more likely to gain weight. Even if people do exercise more we see 10% higher rates of obesity in places where the sun sets later.
▶ 1:03:45Dr. Johnson: Sleep is so critical important for our metabolic health, our overall health, our mental health, how are brain functions which affects the safety issues. The highway study found a high risk of vehicle crashes even though it was light later. The effect of sleep is more powerful than almost anything else and by lying in the sun we can help that.
▶ 1:04:09Chair Cruz: Let's talk about the idea of states rights. I have heard from groups on both sides of this issue that want either permanent standard time were permanent daylight savings time. Almost everyone agrees changing the clock twice a year does not make sense. Mr. yates, in your opening statement you said setting the clock is fundamentally a states rights issue. Why do you think that decision should be left to the states?
▶ 1:04:37Mr. Yates: Thank you for the question. The main reason is geography. We live on this big round ball and the sun is moving at the difference in where each state is makes a big difference in how the sunrise and sunset timing applies.
▶ 1:04:56Mr. Yates: To say there is one solution that is exactly right for texas and the exact same solution is right for atlanta -- for georgia -- that is what I would posit overreach by the federal government. I might even go back to the example that is often cited about when the time change happened in the 1970's.
▶ 1:05:22Mr. Yates: To give context to why that was such a failure, it is often said people did not like it because there were children put at risk in the dark waiting for school. It turns out a lot of that is apocryphal. Pedestrians are much safer with more light later in the day.
▶ 1:05:44Mr. Yates: The thing that is interesting about that time change that shows you how different politics was, that law was signed into law on december 15, 1973, right in the middle of watergate. You could say maybe it was a distraction from other things. It was enacted on december 15 on a saturday. It took place on january 6, 1974, about three weeks later.
▶ 1:06:12Mr. Yates: You can imagine the worst monday of the year already is the one after the holiday break where you have to go back to school and everything. To have an extra hour of sleep dropped away right before that, you can understand why it would be so unpopular and why it was repealed two months after. It clearly does not work for the federal government to say this is exactly what we should do for all of the country at the same time.
▶ 1:06:39Mr. Yates: It is the place of the commerce committee to say we need a well-regulated time system. It makes sense to get rid of the clock changing. If we give two years to the states so that all of these arguments can be hashed out and they are all valid arguments but they can be hashed out in the geography of the place where it would apply they would have time to plan and figure out what is the appropriate time for school to start to take in this evidence from meteorologist and what is the best time for all the businesses to operate.
▶ 1:07:10Chair Cruz: A b if we had more daylight the watergate break-in does not happen in history would be different. Dr. johnson, you seem to disagree with having states decide. Why do you think that would be the wrong approach?
▶ 1:07:24Dr. Johnson: Time is a measure. Congress has control over setting measures. My husband likes to make a joke, he is 66 in the morning and -- he is 6'5" in the morning and 6'4" in the afternoon. We do not change his pattern. Time is supposed to change how the sun goes through the sky.
▶ 1:07:54Dr. Johnson: If we change it to a standard time of the sun being overhead at noon. That is something we can go by. States can decide how they want to set their social schedules. Instead of tricking people into you all have to get up early no matter what, let's have each state decide when they want their schools to start, when businesses want to start, but let's fix a measure of time that is actually -- that has a meeting where the sun is overhead and then adjust the social schedule around at.
▶ 1:08:26Dr. Johnson: That is definitely something was states should decide on.
▶ 1:08:27Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator lujan?
▶ 1:08:32Sen. Lujan: Dr. johnson, thank you for joining us today. I saw the american academy of neurology sent the committee a letter encouraging us to consider that standard time not daylight savings time is the best to align with our bodies natural clocks. Many people still sleep through the morning light for after the early sunrise. Does that mean the light is being wasted if they not using it awake?
▶ 1:09:02Dr. Johnson: Light helps us get up. Most people will wake up naturally after light. Some people, my teenagers, could easily sleep in until noon. That makes them more likely shipped their schedules even later. When you miss morning light, which is needed to resecure rhythm, or if you get too much light in the evenings you drift later and have even more trouble getting up in the morning.
▶ 1:09:31Dr. Johnson: That is why if we actually set it so the sun is rising earlier in the morning, more people will actually because their circadian rhythm start saying get up on time rather than get up so late and will be able to be ready for the day and be able to have their circadian rhythms help their health, help their metabolism, which will be good for heart disease, stroke risk, dementia risk, all of these other health problems.
▶ 1:09:59Sen. Lujan: I appreciate that. To all of the panelists, what does this mean for new mexico, for our farmers and teenagers and workers. What would permanent standard time mean for these communities? One or the other, I apologize. Mr. yates?
▶ 1:10:25Mr. Yates: Thank you for the question. New mexico is another leader in early movements to try to lock the clock. State senator worked on this and I worked with him closely for a long time. The effects on everybody in new mexico of the clock changing is the same which is it is very disruptive. It is not disruptive equally for everybody. For a lot of people it is.
▶ 1:10:55Mr. Yates: All of the different health studies show that. The thing I've been advocating about the two your limitation period would be helpful for new mexico because we have a tricky trade region where you about west texas which is in the mountain time zone and part of mexico. There is a region where interstate commerce is going to be affected.
▶ 1:11:21Mr. Yates: All of mexico recently decided to lock the clock except for the part attached to west texas and new mexico. These issues of commerce and complicated -- these issues of commerce are complicated and will take time to work out.
▶ 1:11:36Mr. Karen: I would say the golf courses in new mexico which enjoy mostly afternoon and evening light, all of the great hiking which goes on in new mexico, the rockclimbing and hot air ballooning and all of that would be seriously curved if daylight savings time was removed. That would be a detriment to the new mexico economy and people's time and ability to get outside and enjoy what you have.
▶ 1:12:05Sen. Lujan: You are suggesting people hike in golf in the morning.
▶ 1:12:09Mr. Karen: They do all of that in the afternoon. If standard time is made permanent they would be forced to do it in the morning they would have to go to school and work and I do not think they would be able to make that shift.
▶ 1:12:21Sen. Lujan: I appreciate that.
▶ 1:12:23Dr. Johnson: I would say if anything you have a neighboring state arizona the does very well on standard time and has shown that the golf industry can thrive. One of the reasons arizona says they stayed on standard time is because it gets too hot later a lot of people do like to do exercise later and that is a better time for health to get our exercise in.
▶ 1:12:46Dr. Johnson: If we can get people help so they can be more active in the morning and get this exercise and enjoy all of the wonderful things like hiking, which I know when I've gone to places like new mexico I do it in the morning. I think we can still have all of these activities in either time but I think standard time is the healthier choice.
▶ 1:13:05Sen. Lujan: Dr. harkey?
▶ 1:13:08Dr. Harkey: Our work was looking at fatality data nationally. If the patterns hold in new mexico, just like they have in our research across the country, then we will see an offset between the number of motor vehicle occupant debts that have risen slightly during the time change c1
▶ 1:13:39Dr. Harkey: The period and so the net effect is one of really no change when we look at road safety data overall. If you are trying to make this decision on the basis of road safety, I do not think the results of our study will point to in one direction or the other.
▶ 1:13:58Sen. Lujan: Dr. johnson pointed to a study that showed 20% higher car crashes at locations where sunsets and sunrises are later. I understand your point that darkness is a measure of accidents, but this data shows me sleep affects are powerful indicators as well. How do you view the risk of sleep deprivation on accidents versus risks from darkness?
▶ 1:14:26Dr. Harkey: Our study did not look at that particular issue. Other studies have. Most studies that have tried to look strictly at that small amount of time change before and after crashes occur -- the real issue is the amount of light and time of day it occurs. Darkness is key.
▶ 1:14:46Dr. Harkey: To make sure you're providing good safety interventions to address issues of darkness, whether improving technologies in the vehicle such as headlights, automatic emergency braking, or whether it is infrastructure measures that add more lighting and space for pedestrians and bicyclists to keep them separated. Whatever you can do to reduce those conflicts in the darkness and improve awareness of other road users in the darkness will be beneficial.
▶ 1:15:14Sen. Lujan: It sounds like you support my legislation to require technology be installed in vehicles to prevent crashes, so I will take that as well and share my colleague. I have one more question for Mr. yates on scattered time versus daylight savings time. Just a note to the panelists, the reason I'm asking so much about sleep is, as my colleagues know, I suffered a stroke three years ago. I learned a lot about the importance of sleep.
▶ 1:15:43Sen. Lujan: I live my life burning the candle at both ends and now I do my due diligence to embrace sleep hygiene on the rest. So that is bearing a lot into this conversation I'm having with my constituents so I appreciate this hearing.
▶ 1:16:02Sen. Young: I thank all of you for being here. I'm the senior senator from the state of indiana and we have a history with daylight savings time, for those of you who have consumed old parks and episodes you may have seen the one that focused on this particular topic, but let me walk through some of the things that have transpired in our state and I will weave in some of the unique perspectives we have brought to
▶ 1:16:34Sen. Young: This. Until 2006, our state was chronologically divided, with some counties observing daylight savings time and others not. In 2006, after years of debate, furious debate, our state decided to become the 48th state to adopt daylight savings time in central indiana on the shortest day of the year the sun currently rises at 8:0 2:00 a.m. And sets at 5:23 p.m..
▶ 1:17:07Sen. Young: Under permanent daylight savings time, sunrise would be delayed until 9:02 a.m., meaning hoosiers would begin their day in darkness for much of the winter. What works for east coast states I'm hearing from any of my constituents might not work for states like indiana. We have 12 counties in the western part of the state that are in the central time zone, evansville, indiana. You have chicago, what we call the region.
▶ 1:17:39Sen. Young: So there are 80 other counties in the eastern time zone. This sort of suggests maybe one-size-fits-all national policy on time changes does not take into account the regional differences that impact daily life. I understand we have a charge to facilitate interstate commerce.
▶ 1:18:06Sen. Young: It is one of the major arguments facilitating interstate commerce on the state level when we had this debate. So I dissipate we have heard that and we will hear more of that for my colleagues but there has to -- that has to be balanced against other considerations, of course.
▶ 1:18:24Sen. Young: Leaving this decision to the states might allow local leaders who best understand communities to weigh the specific needs of residents, states are in a better position to evaluate how changes in daylight hours affect school schedules, public safety, and economic activity.
▶ 1:18:49Sen. Young: So I guess to the panel -- do you believe states like indiana with their unique cultures and geographical challenges and even histories as a relates to this issue, should have the flexibility to make their own decision? Or do you think the decision should be standardized across the country? We will begin with Mr. yates and give everyone an opportunity to speak to that.
▶ 1:19:17Sen. Young: >> I mention indiana because it is an example of why the committee needs to approach this carefully. To impose on indiana a solution that is the same as for new york and new england is not in the best interest of the people in indiana and is a little bit rude. One thing I might say is that I have never been to indiana and testified but I did go to michigan and testify.
▶ 1:19:46Sen. Young: I went to nebraska and kansas, which are states like indiana on the western edge of time zones and it would make the most sense for them to be in standard time and I advocated for that in those states. All of them told me there constituents do not care.
▶ 1:20:07Sen. Young: They are already going to school in the dark and they would like to have a little time after school and work, so I said this is your state. You get to pick.
▶ 1:20:29Mr. Karen: I do not see any constitution where it says the federal government regulates time. I don't know -- I know time falls under commerce.
▶ 1:20:37Chair Cruz: We have the view that everything falls under commerce.
▶ 1:20:43Mr. Karen: It is less of a state issue than it feels like a personal issue and the ability to do, for example -- I can simulate or practice sleep hygiene whether the sun is up or down. I cannot simulate sun hygiene. I cannot lie to the world when we want to be out there when it is dark.
▶ 1:21:10Mr. Karen: So I think to me it comes down to which choice, if you were to land on one, will be harder to adjust to? We are already on daylight saving time for eight months. If we reverse it, we are adjusting eight months of the calendar.
▶ 1:21:25Sen. Young: Dr. johnson?
▶ 1:21:27Dr. Johnson: I want to talk about the western edge of time zones, states like yours are more aligned with central time zone, so already on standard time your sun is going to be overhead closer to 1:00 when we go to daylight savings time and now it is closer to 2:00. We see that this really impacts health risks, mental health risks, safety risks, how kids do in school.
▶ 1:21:55Dr. Johnson: I want to highlight an indiana study. When you guys ended the parts of the state on standard time --
▶ 1:22:01Sen. Young: You are citing a study? Are we allowed to do that? Is this in the rules? I am kidding. When part of indiana ended standard time and went to seasonal daylight savings time, they found that kids high school test scores were actually better when they were on standard time and dropped when they switched to even seasonal daylight savings time and that is not
▶ 1:22:32Sen. Young: Adding the exponential harms of bringing 9:00 a.m. Sun, so we would love everyplace to be more in line with the sun and states have different needs to get closer to that.
▶ 1:22:49Sen. Young: Dr. harkey?
▶ 1:22:51Dr. Harkey: We did not have it referenced in our study for one time or the other in terms of how you set it. Our study showed the risk of fatalities for pedestrians and bicyclists rises for all motorists at night, so the key is, regardless of which decision you make and which time zone you use, you have to make sure you are putting interventions in that will help those traveling
▶ 1:23:24Dr. Harkey: In those dark hours, whether in the morning or afternoon or evening. That is the key, particularly for pedestrians and bicyclists, who are the overwhelming number of fatalities occurring in dark hours.
▶ 1:23:41Sen. Young: I am over time. I see Mr. karen has something he wants to say. I have been given leave by the chairman. Go ahead.
▶ 1:23:53Mr. Karen: Senator scott's bill threads the needle. It creates a federal daylight savings time but allows every state to opt out if they chose. That is maybe the best answer here.
▶ 1:24:07Sen. Young: Good point. Thank you.
▶ 1:24:16Sen. Markey: Is 1985. Is my fifth term in the united states house of representatives and I become the chairman of the energy subcommittee on the energy of commerce committee. And searching through the jurisdiction is time. I guess somebody is going to have to be chairman over time and it is me. I am chairman of time. And nothing had been driving me crazier than the birds chirping.
▶ 1:24:51Sen. Markey: At 5:00 in the morning. It is sunshine. It is april. This is not good. So I began a negotiation with a republican of pennsylvania to move time. It was a hard, grudging discussion but I was able to move it from the end of april to beginning of april. In 1986, so that changed it because at that point it was six months daylight.
▶ 1:25:21Sen. Markey: I was able to claw back three weeks, pretty much to write now. Otherwise I'm a we would still be another two or three weeks. Then the congressman left and in 2005 I am still on the energy subcommittee.
▶ 1:25:43Sen. Markey: So with fred upton, a republican from michigan, we cut another deal and moved it to the beginning of march. We also said let's put halloween in daylight savings time, so we moved it to the beginning of november so that point I am at eight daylight, four standard. I am kind of proud of my bills, changing time. Those are big bills.
▶ 1:26:17Sen. Markey: And the whole world starts to move to that standard. So we had to stop there. And two years ago senator rubio and I had a bill to do daylight savings time year-round and it was passed by unanimous consent on the floor of the senate. It was stalled in the house and never had a vote.
▶ 1:26:45Sen. Markey: But I consider this kind of an an herbal march two more sunshine that people can enjoy not what they are asleep, having the sun come in early in the morning. So that is my goal.
▶ 1:27:02Sen. Markey: My goal is to make sure people get more sunshine in the evening when they can use it, especially as our economy has changed and we are not an agricultural predominant economy, although farmers play a vital role in our society. We are more into the economy we all live in today.
▶ 1:27:26Sen. Markey: My first question is how would extending evening daylight support small businesses in your industry?
▶ 1:27:39Mr. Karen: It would add to the golf industry at least $1 billion of economic activity. The average golf course would see an increase of approximate 250 thousand dollars in revenue. That is an economic argument, but the golfers around america we get to enjoy all of that, so that is the argument.
▶ 1:28:01Sen. Markey: It is hard to start your little league practices if it is still dark in the evening at the end of april. Kids will not be allowed out into the dark, so that change was important. And again in 2000.
▶ 1:28:17Mr. Karen: My brother happens to be an athletic director at a high school and said we do not like having to spend money on lights for every activity after school.
▶ 1:28:25Sen. Markey: Would and additional hour of evening sunlight help businesses save money on energy costs?
▶ 1:28:35Mr. Karen: We do not like the golf courses so it would not be energy savings for us. It is mostly about health and economic health.
▶ 1:28:43Sen. Markey: Mr. yates, what is your research say about benefits of ending the switch twice a year?
▶ 1:28:53Mr. Yates: I appreciate the nickname you got. It is better than the nickname the daily show called me, the time wizard, so I was not sure if I should be offended.
▶ 1:29:07Sen. Markey: I will keep sun king for myself.
▶ 1:29:15Mr. Yates: The detrimental effects of switching the clocks are clear and it seems we have pretty much unanimous agreement about that. Was delightful about it for my perspective is to hear you tell these stories because you clearly have been a pioneer on this for a long time. What is great is that this has never been at all a partisan issue. It has always been a bipartisan issue. When you look at the 24 states --
▶ 1:29:41Sen. Markey: Opposition has always been bipartisan. I had to negotiate with a representative who was a republican on the other side and I had on my side a republican and I had to negotiate with larry craig, senator from idaho. I had to negotiate with him.
▶ 1:30:07Sen. Markey: But I had fred upton for michigan who was a supporter, so it has always been bipartisan on either side. And so that is the only way for my perspective that we will be able to work here as well, to make progress and it is -- we just have to make daylight savings time permanent in my opinion or lease get more sunshine.
▶ 1:30:36Sen. Markey: The reason -- from my perspective, when the sun is out it just increases the likelihood that the corners of people's mouths will be turned upwards. They will be happier. That is why so many people move to texas, by the way. Is not the politics. It is the sun they are chasing.
▶ 1:31:00Sen. Markey: So this for my perspective is a universal feeling, when that sun is out, making you want to enjoy it in the evening makes all the difference so we have to find a way of resolving these issues to be able to deal with it and I know there are disagreement on it, including karin johnson here for massachusetts and she is on the other side so it is a big
▶ 1:31:31Sen. Markey: Conversation. I hope we can resolve it because I think it is for the benefit of happiness, to have that sunshine. They can do a lot more with sunshine in the evening. I thank you for the opportunity.
▶ 1:31:52Chair Cruz: Thank you, your majesty. And I will say I did not know that my friend for massachusetts had acquired the nickname the sun king, which the previous sun king of course was king louis xiv france, who is statement was I am the state, which may explain the differences between senator markey and myself on the size of government.
▶ 1:32:21Sen. Markey: I think president trump is quoting king louis.
▶ 1:32:28Chair Cruz: That is a fair point, since he did in fact tweet it out.
▶ 1:32:34Sen. Markey: I did not he knew french. I think he did in fact quote favorably not even as you are. You are doing it with a very high risible coefficient. I think he was serious. But I will say this. I think you gave the president good advice two days ago on acting like king louis.
▶ 1:33:00Chair Cruz: As you know, I lived three years in massachusetts and I remember my third year of law school where it snowed in the month of may, which I thought was a moral. As you noted, the sun is a good recruiter for the great state of texas. I'm fond of saying you cannot shovel sunshine.
▶ 1:33:19Sen. Markey: I will give you some news. The winters in boston are now six degrees warmer than they were in 1970 because of climate change. Our ponds do not freeze over in the winter anymore, much less snow and may, so there may be kids from texas going to law school who enjoy may longer than they used to.
▶ 1:33:44Chair Cruz: I am going to ask a couple more questions and then we will wrap up the hearing. Mr. karen, give us your best argument why recreational daylight is so important to our members.
▶ 1:34:02Mr. Karen: My members deliver joy for a living and happen to run businesses making that happen. To them, if they saw more people in the afternoons and evenings enjoying the outdoors with each other, it is why they get out of bed. It is why they do this, so they will have better lives as business owners. They will be able to pay the bills better. And reinvest in their businesses if they had a boost more in the afternoons and evenings.
▶ 1:34:31Chair Cruz: That was helpful, although I will say on delivering joy I could not help but think of I think the best comedy riff ever done, which is robin williams, which I will note is profane but screamingly funny and he points out that golf was invented by the scots and how infuriating it can be at times. He said, they called a stroke because when you miss you want to have a stroke.
▶ 1:35:06Chair Cruz: Very good. Dr. johnson. Would shifting time zones slightly address the concerns for communities in dark zone areas if the clock or permit lisette on daylight savings time? Does shifting the time zones make a difference?
▶ 1:35:28Dr. Johnson: We would encourage all states to be within the time zone that is closest to the sun being overhead at noon, so for example indiana being more in the central time zone versus the eastern time zone would help get them more aligned with the sun, but it should be standard time, so there has been a push on the east coast to have us in atlantic standard time, a time set for bermuda, not any of the east coast.
▶ 1:35:57Dr. Johnson: So we want permanent standard eastern time, not permanent standard atlantic time, which is the same as permanent daylight savings time.
▶ 1:36:09Chair Cruz: Dr. harkey, what has your research found as it relates to traffic accidents immediately following a time change?
▶ 1:36:18Dr. Harkey: That is what will be looking at as part of a research, that five week period before and after the time change. And when we fall back in the fall, deaths go down was -- by 7%. When we spring forward, vehicle occupant deaths go up 12%.
▶ 1:36:43Dr. Harkey: The exact opposite with pedestrian fatalities, so when we fall back pedestrian fatalities rise and when we spring forward they go down 24%. So the net effect is almost zero between pedestrian and vehicle -- pedestrian, bicyclist, and vehicle deaths, so that is why our research does not come out strongly in favor of either one. What is clear is darkness matters.
▶ 1:37:11Dr. Harkey: That is where we do about a quarter of our travel, at night, yet that is when 50% of the vehicle occupant deaths occur and more than three quarters of pedestrian deaths occur, so regardless of what policy decision is made with regards to time and where we set the clocks, we have to make sure we continue to improve our infrastructure, continue to improve vehicle technology, and address safety risks that we have at night in dark
▶ 1:37:42Dr. Harkey: Conditions.
▶ 1:37:42Chair Cruz: You just said darkness mattered and it occurred to me an alternative title for the hearing instead of turn back time might have been hello, darkness, my old friend. All right. This hearing was important.
▶ 1:37:59Chair Cruz: I wanted to hear all this testimony because I personally struggle with the choices here, because it is a question of what you care about more, sunshine and joy and fun and money or health, mental health, physical health, and the honest answer for most people is I care about all of that stuff, so that is not an easy trade-off. The alternative that has been suggested is that each state make the decision.
▶ 1:38:29Chair Cruz: And I guess it has been pointed out that senator scott's bill does a version of that by picking daylight savings time but letting states opt out. As a practical matter, does that work? Functionally, how confusing is that, having everyone pick different times? How does that work for commerce, for life, for knowing what time it is? Let me have each of you answer that.
▶ 1:39:00Mr. Yates: The one part of senator markey's history about when they changed the time in november was the proposal was to move a light savings time to finish at the end of november and airlines came back and said we do not want a time change in the middle of our busiest travel season, so they were going to scrap that.
▶ 1:39:23Mr. Yates: So time is always complicated in the system we have is complicated, but it is complicated because it is a human creation. The sun moving around the earth does not have anything to do with time. Time is the agreement that we have about what 10:00 means because we do not want to go around saying the committee hearing will start when the sun's two hands above the horizon.
▶ 1:39:51Mr. Yates: We need the system, but the system has this bug right now and the bug is switching of the clocks, so if we have a little time, a couple years so individual states can address all these complexities and make these decisions, we will be able to get rid of this. That is something we have been stuck with since world war I and this is our opportunity to fix it.
▶ 1:40:16Mr. Karen: I am not going to say government solutions cause more confusion, but you can imagine in this scenario that florida is on daylight savings time, georgia right above it on standard, south carolina on daylight, and because may be special interests of all kind made that happen. So I already have problems remembering which state is in which time zone as it is.
▶ 1:40:42Mr. Karen: To add to that they are in central and on standard -- what time is it there? So I can see her this causes more confusion. I wish I had a better answer on that one, but could we adjust and figure that out quickly? I do not know. I see it as problematic but it may be the only way to thread the needle?
▶ 1:41:03Dr. Johnson: I think the economy and transportation industry needs consistency and alignment, so we want to make the change once. We do not want to pick something that has and tried and failed twice before, such that we spend lots of money fixing it again in a few years. You mentioned the economy, which again is important and the majority of our workers start work early.
▶ 1:41:29Dr. Johnson: The average work start time is 7:55, so we would be forcing people all winter to go to work in the dark, really affecting productivity. And economics. So while certain businesses are going to have different benefits with the sun, I do want to give sun to people when they use it, when they use it to get up and be healthy and be more productive and efficient at work and to improve the overall
▶ 1:42:00Dr. Johnson: Economy, not just niche businesses like the golf industry that have shown they can be successful on standard time like in arizona.
▶ 1:42:09Dr. Harkey: Strick lee speaking from a road safety perspective, I am not sure it would make any difference if states were -- had the right to select a time. Again, it is about the amount of light during the times of travel, so I do not think it would have an impact. It would probably confuse me, but we had that problem -- I'll give you a quick anecdote.
▶ 1:42:34Dr. Harkey: 40 years ago we were collecting speed data in new mexico and arizona as part of a research study and had no idea at that time that arizona did not follow the light savings time so all of our equip and was an hour off we went to pick up the speed data and we had to adjust it. I think you would have those kinds of things. They can work their way into the system, unintentional mistakes, if we were to get into a system where we have a lot of different time zones.
▶ 1:43:05Chair Cruz: I am thankful for these magic devices that we carry that when I land on a plane I looked down and figure out what time it is because I'm on a lot of planes and it changes. I want to thank each of you. This has been helpful testimony and you all have different perspectives. Each of you has added significantly. Senators will have until the close of business to cement questions for the record.
▶ 1:43:31Chair Cruz: Witnesses will have until the end of the day on thursday, may 1 to respond to those questions and this concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]