▶ 0:36:57Chair Cotton: I want to welcome our nominees, aaron lukas to be the principal deputy director of national intelligence, joseph kent to be the director of the national counterterrorism center and john eisenberg to be assistant attorney general for the national security division.
▶ 0:37:17Chair Cotton: Unless otherwise ordered by chair and vice chair no confirmation hearing shall be held sooner than seven calendar days after receiving the back ground questionnaire, financial disclosure and responses to prehearing questions. While the committee received most of the nominees materials at least seven days in advance we received the final batch of documents within the seven day timeframe. The vice chairman has agreed to a joint determination to hold the hearings we can get it done before our upcoming recess.
▶ 0:37:45Chair Cotton: Also I would like to remind those in attendance, while you are welcome to absorb the hearing, we will not allow disruptions by the audience. Audience members may not verbally or physically distract, by standing, or otherwise annoying the chairman. Those who do so will be immediately escorted from the room.
▶ 0:38:12Chair Cotton: Our goal in conducting this hearing is to enable the committee to begin consideration of the nominees qualifications, and to allow for thoughtful the liberation. Each nominee has provided substantive written responses to dozens of questions presented by the committee. Today members can ask additional questions and hear from the nominees. Nominees before the committee today are exceptionally well-qualified, capable and impressive individuals with accomplished careers in public service. Their records and achievements speak for themselves. First Mr.
▶ 0:38:41Chair Cotton: Lukas made an outside impact on our national security as a cia officer and station chief and through joint duty rotations at the national security council and the office of national intelligence. With more than 20 years of intelligence experience Mr. lukas has the knowledge, know-how and expertise needed to assist director gabbard in returning our intelligence community to its core mission of aggressively stealing secrets from our adversaries. He is joined today by his wife.
▶ 0:39:12Chair Cotton: This committee is eager to see the odni return to its original size, scope and mission which is why I am pleased to support trump's decision to nominate Mr. lukas as the principal deputy director of national intelligence. Mr. kent's military service during the war and terror provides him with experience and knowledge to lead the fight against terrorism as the director of the national counterterrorism center.
▶ 0:39:38Chair Cotton: Serving as a green beret and later cia officer he dedicated his career to courageously hunting down terrorists and keeping americans safe. He knows first-hand the threat homeland and the devastation it causes. His first wife was killed while serving in syria in 2019. For which we all express our continued sympathy and gratitude for her actions. Mr.
▶ 0:40:03Chair Cotton: Kent is a soldier and patriot, the right man to lead the counterterrorism center. Last but not least, Mr. eisenberg's expertise andcounsel have been indispensable to the president and senior officials. In the first trump administration Mr.
▶ 0:40:21Chair Cotton: Eisenberg served as legal advisor to the national secured counsel, assistant to the president and assistant for national security affairs and previously served with the doj where he advised the attorney general and other officials on complex matters including counsel and the intelligence community. I commend president trump for nominating Mr.
▶ 0:40:45Chair Cotton: Eisenberg who has the experience necessary to serve as the assistant attorney general for the national security division at the department of justice. Finally want to note that Mrs. lukas, Mrs. eisenberg and Mr. kent's family are here to support their nominees. I think them all for being here and now recognize the vice chairman for opening remarks.
▶ 0:41:06Vice Chair Warner: Thank you and I apologize to the committee. I came running in, and I think, I just saw chairman crawford last night and chris miller. Did you guys switch up on me the hours?
▶ 0:41:29Vice Chair Warner: I know you are here to introduce, I see the nominees behind us and I did promise the chairman I would cut my rant by a minute or two because of my tardiness. I want to welcome our witnesses and congratulations as the chairman said, you have all been nominated to serve in very important decisions -- positions and have provided service to our country before.
▶ 0:41:58Vice Chair Warner: I want to remind you and I find this terribly important, when you raise your hand to serve, you're taking an oath not to one person, but to the constitution and every single american who put their trust in that document. These three positions are terribly important, all created after 9/11. To make sure we would not have that kind of tragedy again.
▶ 0:42:24Vice Chair Warner: To make sure we prevent that, I think you all will have to both ensure you are able to remain trust with the american people and our allies and partners. You have to inspire a workforce that has been rocked in the opening days of this administration.
▶ 0:42:47Vice Chair Warner: Most importantly, you have to be willing to speak truth to power even if that could cost you your job. Mr. kent, you have been nominated to lead the agency most central to our fight against foreign terrorists. As senator cotton said, thank you for your willingness to serve again.
▶ 0:43:11Vice Chair Warner: After such a long career in both the military and the loss your family took defending our nation. Given your background, the experience to do this job, I have no question about your patriotism or commitment. I do have questions about your judgment and we will get into that.
▶ 0:43:37Vice Chair Warner: As I said, when we met, I have concerns you made during congressional campaigns were you called for defunding the fbi and cutting the cia, or when you called zelenskyy a fog backed by a revolution and I hope you will -- a thug backed by a revolution. Mr. lukas, is a former c.I.a.
▶ 0:44:10Vice Chair Warner: Officer you understand more than most of the importance of building trust. I have to ask you, how can our allies and partners be expected to trust our world when we threatened to kick canada out or impose tariffs even with a new delay on partners like australia? Who we actually have a trade surplus with.
▶ 0:44:32Vice Chair Warner: I worry when we see that reliance on our partners, sometimes classified information has been treated so casually and carelessly, that literally this information was getting out about an attack on the houthis while pilots were flying. It concerns me rightly the fact nobody has held -- been held accountable continues to bother me. Lastly, Mr.
▶ 0:44:58Vice Chair Warner: Eisenberg your role will take on increased importance and your team responsible for fisa section 702 which makes up 60% of the president's daily brief and has challenges. I think we made strong reforms. That will be a challenge. If confirmed the three of you will not have easy tasks. The world has become more complicated and dangerous.
▶ 0:45:28Vice Chair Warner: I question at times the fact it appears the administration, particularly vis-a-vis our friends and allies, is making america less prepared to take on this challenge. Again, I have shared with my colleagues, have not had a chance in a public setting. I was deeply concerned when the president fired the director and deputy director of the nsa, and other agencies.
▶ 0:45:56Vice Chair Warner: A number of well respected republican staffers, some who worked for this committee, all because this individual lower loom or, who claimed 9/11 was an inside job, claimed that a weather machine controlled by nikki haley caused snowstorms in iowa or italy, that the first lady of florida, casey desantis, lied about her cancer and that school shootings are staged.
▶ 0:46:25Vice Chair Warner: I don't know why any administration would like -- lets anyone with those views within 100 yards of the oval office let alone giving the president a hit list of who to go after. We also know one of the president's first actions was celebrating the arrest of the terrorist who planned the bombings. The truth is the president before that time fired the fbi leaders who were in charge of that investigation.
▶ 0:46:56Vice Chair Warner: I question how any of these actions make our country safe. We are firing the folks responsible for security of our country's nuclear stockpile. I worry about the firings and potential additional firings at cisa when we still have china and potentially other countries deep into our telecom networks and taking advantage of those vulnerabilities. We obviously have also seen and know there are more firings to come.
▶ 0:47:27Vice Chair Warner: The cia, we finally documented close to $400,000 to get a cia officer through security clearance and training. And just firing folks because they have been hired within the last two years makes no sense to me.
▶ 0:47:45Vice Chair Warner: We also know, and have litigated this at times, the notion that the information, classified information relayed on signal, is enormously troubling to me there has been no accountability. We still don't know if the phones use have been scraped for malware.
▶ 0:48:08Vice Chair Warner: We have learned subsequently there were 20 additional group chats that included discussion of matters like ukraine and gaza. Why was that done and why has there not been any accountability? As I mentioned earlier, the firings of people like general hock, nsa, admirable -- admiral chatfield at nato.
▶ 0:48:36Vice Chair Warner: At hapten roads, where the truman had been deployed from. The community there was incensed about this classified information getting out. They know if it had gotten into the hands of the houthis, it could have been a real challenge.
▶ 0:49:02Vice Chair Warner: You as intelligence professionals know that we are made safer by collaboration with allies and I worry if they will continue to share information with us when we don't keep classified information classified. We will never know for sure what they are not willing to share.
▶ 0:49:22Vice Chair Warner: I think the actions of this administration, I appreciate your willingness to serve, but I will continue to come back to that point of, will you be willing to speak truth to power even if it costs your drop? That is the only way we can have a nonpolitical ic to guarantee america's security.
▶ 0:49:39Chair Cotton: As the vice chairman alluded to their ongoing votes on the senate floor in addition to one other committee meeting. If senators are coming and going it is not because we find you boring, but because we have to get other business and think you will be easily confirmed on a large bipartisan vote. Before we get to the witnesses we have distinguished officials to introduce them. For Mr. lukas we have the chairman of the house intelligence committee, congressman from the finest state in the union, rick crawford. Take it away, rick.
▶ 0:50:10Rep. Crawford: Mr. lukas, nominee for the principal deputy director of national intelligence. It is with the oversight of the intelligence committee what our ic needs is more leadership from arkansas. He grew up in arkansas where his family moved before his first birthday. He attended school next to the little rock air force base which likely influenced his interest in serving on the front lines of security challenges.
▶ 0:50:41Rep. Crawford: He went to the university of texas. Traveled the U.S. and began to expand his understanding of foreign cultures and languages by traveling in teaching english in former war ransacked countries. 9/11 drew aaron to public service. He began work for the U.S.
▶ 0:51:01Rep. Crawford: Trade representative and was recruited by the cia to work as an analyst , wanting to expand his service, he moved to the cia directorate of operations and served globally with distinction. After proving himself in the field he was called the leadership serving in the office of the director of national intelligence and the security council staff. He served under multiple administrations with both parties with appropriate integrity of an intelligence officer. It will be good to have someone with his operational background in the odni leadership.
▶ 0:51:35Rep. Crawford: I'm confident your committee will give him proper review given his honorable public service. It is my pleasure to introduce and recommend to the committee Mr. aaron lukas.
▶ 0:51:43Chair Cotton: Thank you, Mr. crawford. You're welcome to stay for our festivities. I also know there was a lot of business in the house if you need to get back. For Mr. kent, we have the former director of the national counterterrorism center as well as former acting secretary of defense. Mr. miller, take it away.
▶ 0:52:04Mr. Miller: Good afternoon, members of this and credibly important committee. I'm chris miller and have the privilege of being unanimously confirmed by this committee and the senate in august 2020 to serve as the seventh director of the U.S. national counterterrorism center.
▶ 0:52:22Mr. Miller: When I left public office in 2021, I vowed never again to appear before congress, but when your army buddy joe kent, an army buddy universally known in the special forces group, the organization we served together in, known as the best soldier in the unit, when he asked you to introduce him for this confirmation hearing to the same position I once held, it was incomprehensible to say no. This is the honor of a lifetime.
▶ 0:52:52Mr. Miller: Thank you for your willingness to reenter public service after an enormously impactful career as an army green and member of our nation's most elite hostage rescue task force, followed by continued service in harm's way after your retirement, as a cia paramilitary officer. I was beyond gratified when after you left public service you ran for congress to represent a new generation of americans that understand the life-and-death consequences of the decisions made in these chambers.
▶ 0:53:21Mr. Miller: Your willingness to run for elected office, and experienced the essence of our political experiment, that those know before me was an act of commitment and moral courage that often times concerned me. I was mortified about your good name and selfless service were attacked.
▶ 0:53:42Mr. Miller: I'm sure there were times when embroiled in political combat you thought you might be better in foreign fields in battle, but I was reminded of president dear roosevelt's thoughts of being in the arena and it is not the critic that counts. Thank you for being the defining leader of your generation and thank you to this -- the members of this important committee for your willingness to be in the arena in the your service to our nation in a time of profound risk.
▶ 0:54:10Mr. Miller: It is with honor and humility I introduce joe kent to be the next director of the national counterterrorism center, one of the most impactful organizations in the intelligence committee. Established after al qaeda's 2001 assault on america, it has the most cutting edge tools, processes and procedures undergirded by a fervently dedicated cadre of analysts to guarantee our nation never suffers such a cataclysmic attack again.
▶ 0:54:40Mr. Miller: The most dedicated and skilled people, technology, operating procedures, are meaningless without thoughtful, purposeful and principled leadership. With your foresight and support that leader will be joe kent. A former green beret, paramilitary officer, who not only consumed intelligence on the ground threat the world, but conducted all aspects of the intelligence cycle. He is uniquely qualified to bring operators into the halls of the ntic.
▶ 0:55:11Mr. Miller: But also has a perspective on when the intelligencei community fails. N 2019 his soulmate and wife shannon, a chief petty officer and trailblazer in her special operations community, and birthmother of their two sons, was killed in northeast syria when a human intelligence medium was compromised, guaranteeing no other family ever experiences that heartache is his
▶ 0:55:42Mr. Miller: Professional purpose in life. Boys, thanks for being the joy of your father's life and inspiration. Heather, thank you for serving in our nations army. And for your love and support of joe and the boys and for being the foundation of such a wonderful family. I don't need to tell this committee we are in a change of global order and are woefully behind in transforming to keep pace with threats.
▶ 0:56:07Mr. Miller: There is no one more qualified than this nominee to lead the national counterterrorism center into this new era. The committee is vital to overseeing our national security enterprise. To maintain deterrence and capabilities, provide decision makers such as yourselves and our field commanders with a decisive advantage. The old ways of throwing money and people at a problem after catastrophic surprise will no longer suffice.
▶ 0:56:37Mr. Miller: Joe kent has the experience and vision to lead the men and women in the national counterterrorism center into the future. He is a man of enormous courage and morality and understands better than anyone in this room the meaning of sacrifice, and importance of accountable leadership. It is with enormous gratitude to this nation and committee I present Mr. joe kent for your consideration for service as the ninth director of the national counterterrorism center.
▶ 0:57:08Mr. Miller: Thank you for your time.
▶ 0:57:09Chair Cotton: Thank you, Mr. miller. For Mr. eisenberg we have our own sting wished cully, Mr. senator cornyn.
▶ 0:57:18Sen. Cornyn: I'm pleased to introduce john andrew eisenberg, trump's nominee to serve as the assistant attorney general for the national security division at the department of justice. He currently serves as a senior counselor to the dni, director of national intelligence -- excuse me for the attorney general of pam bondi.
▶ 0:57:39Sen. Cornyn: During trump's first term he served as assistant to the president, deputy counsel to the president for national security affairs, as legal advisor to the national security council. His government service did not start there. He has a long history of government service particularly in national security matters.
▶ 0:57:59Sen. Cornyn: Between 2004 and 2009 he served at the department of justice as an associate attorney general in the office of the deputy attorney general. As a deputy assistant attorney general in the office of legal counsel and as counsel to the assistant, and for counterterrorism.
▶ 0:58:22Sen. Cornyn: He was a law clerk for the supreme court justice clarence thomas and mikel j luddick on the court of appeals fourth circuit. He earned a bachelor science degree in mathematics from stanford and a law degree from yale. His wide breadth of experience will serve him well for the challenges that lie ahead.
▶ 0:58:42Sen. Cornyn: Our nation and the department of justice face many challenges from unrelenting foreign adversaries who want to weaken the U.S. I'm confident Mr. eisenberg understands the gravity of these threats and knows first-hand the constant vigilance required and authorities needed for the department of justice, alongside the intelligence community, to successfully and effectively protect americans and american interests.
▶ 0:59:14Sen. Cornyn: One such example is his understanding of the surveillance act 702 authority and its value in the interests of the U.S. I have had discussions with the fbi director patel and the cia director ratcliffe about this, and how we must not willingly or inadvertently impair law enforcement and the intelligence community's ability to identify security threats in real-time.
▶ 0:59:44Sen. Cornyn: Mr. eisenberg shares these views and I'm grateful for that. This is just one compelling example of the depth of knowledge and experience Mr. eisenberg will bring to this important role in president trump's administration. I'm confident he will serve this country honorably and always put america first. Mr. eisenberg congratulations on your nomination and I look forward to voting for it at the first opportunity.
▶ 1:00:10Chair Cotton: Thank you, senator cornyn. If our witnesses could please take their seats at the table. Gentlemen, before we moved to your statements, I need you to answer five routine questions we posed before every nominee, requiring a simple yes or no. Do you agree to appear before the committee here are other venues when invited?
▶ 1:00:37Chair Cotton: If confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the committee and designate staff when invited? Third, you agree to provide documents and other materials from the committee in order for us to carry out our legislative and oversight responsibilities? Fourth, will you ensure your office and staff provide such material to the committee when requested?
▶ 1:01:06Chair Cotton: Fifth, do agree to inform and fully brief all members of the committee of intelligence activities and covert actions rather than only the chairman and vice chairman? Thank you all very much. After the hearing today it is my intention to vote quickly on the nomination and report them to the senate for a prompt vote there as well. We will proceed to opening statements after which I will recognize numbers by seniority at the gavel for five minutes each. We will start with Mr.
▶ 1:01:36Chair Cotton: Lukas followed by Mr. kent, concluding with Mr. eisenberg.
▶ 1:01:41Mr. Lukas: Thank you. Chairman cotton, vice chairman warner and distinguished members of the committee, it is an honor to appear before you as president trump's nominee for the principal deputy director of national intelligence. I want to think the con -- think the president for his confidence and the director, tulsi gabbard, for her outstanding leadership so far.
▶ 1:02:05Mr. Lukas: Finally and most of all I'm grateful to my wonderful wife carrie, who is here today, and to my five children who could not attend. Without their steadfast love and support over the years, I have no doubt I would not be sitting before you right now. I will confess, it is a strange feeling to be in the public spotlight today.
▶ 1:02:26Mr. Lukas: For the past 20 plus years I worked as a cia operations officer in the shadows, never calling attention to my real work, staying away from social media, and being active on the front lines of intelligence. I have lived my covers, sometimes even operating under different names.
▶ 1:02:50Mr. Lukas: I was honored to serve my country in this capacity, to support america's political leaders and war fighters alike with unbiased, apolitical intelligence. I was privileged to work with many dedicated patriots at the cia and across other U.S. government agencies.
▶ 1:03:07Mr. Lukas: Not long ago director gabbard said before this committee and discussed her determination to rebuild an intelligence community with a laserlike focus on our mission, ensuring the safety, security and freedom of the american people. I wholeheartedly share this vision as do countless other career intelligence officers.
▶ 1:03:29Mr. Lukas: What I have seen from the inside unfortunately, is an ic too often aimless, bloated, risk adverse and disconnected at times from the core mission of intelligence. My aim if confirmed is to support director gabbard by giving voice to those unknown and unsung officers doing the hard work of intelligence every day. The operations officers, analysts, action specialists, technical collectors and all those who support us. The men and women of the U.S.
▶ 1:03:59Mr. Lukas: Intelligence community do dangerous, important work critical to our nation's security, but that does not mean all is well within the I.c. Over the decades america's intelligence agencies have morphed into large bureaucracies in which the majority of people have little to no direct connection to how intelligence is connected -- collected, analyzed and presented to policymakers. Reporting chains have grown unwieldy at times, paralyzing even simple decision-making.
▶ 1:04:31Mr. Lukas: Managers are incentivized to avoid risks, not rock the vote -- boat. Huge sums of money are spent on technology projects that it times are outdated before deployed, or worse, lack any connection to the needs of operators and analysts. Priorities that have nothing to do with intelligence have taken center stage at times, distracting us from mission.
▶ 1:04:53Mr. Lukas: President trump and director gabbard have already taken important steps to reverse the decline of the I.c., most notably by getting rid of a toxic diversity, equity and inclusion political dogma that at best was a distraction and at worse, pitted I.c. Officers against one another.
▶ 1:05:10Mr. Lukas: I will never forget the first chief of station's seminar I attended where the seniormost director human resources officer informed attendees it does not matter how good your operations are in station unless you advance a major dei reform, you will not get promoted.
▶ 1:05:30Mr. Lukas: Think of that, chief substation who also serve as the dni representatives are supposed to be in those decisions -- positions because they have proven they are capable field officers, the best at doing real intelligence work, working with our partners, at stealing idle secrets and until recently the official message they were getting was, your job is really to advance a political agenda and not to protect the country.
▶ 1:05:55Mr. Lukas: As one of those field officers and as a former analyst I can tell you, there are huge numbers of dedicated patriots in the I.c. We are thrilled we have an administration that just wants them to get back to work, use their talents and skills to protect the american people, keep politicization out of intelligence, have high expectations and take reasoned risks. Understanding risky ventures means there will at times be failures but timidity is not an option.
▶ 1:06:25Mr. Lukas: To those dedicated professionals in the I.c., I promise you, if confirmed as the pddni, I will have your backs even if you fail as long as you are doing your best for the american people and I will support a director who feels the same way. Odni has a unique role to play in the I.c., and institution were all forms of intelligence come together. The dni is the president's principal intelligence advisor and the odni produces the daily brief.
▶ 1:06:57Mr. Lukas: Taking direction from the white house it sets priorities, de-conflict budgets, works to deploy cutting edge technology, ensures agencies are inspecting privacies and civil liberties of americans and keeps congress and forms a legislative oversight is meaningful. These are all important tasks. But since its creation many have asked whether the odni should even exist. My answer to that question is yes, but like the other I.c. Elements, it must be focused on its unique mission.
▶ 1:07:29Mr. Lukas: Too often odni has grown without regards to that mission and engaged in business that should be conducted by other agencies. Director gabbard said she was committed to ensuring odni focuses only on what it can do, which will make it a more stronger and effective leader of the I.c. If confirmed I will give her my full support in this endeavor. I want to be clear my aim is to make odni better, not to undermine it.
▶ 1:07:56Mr. Lukas: What I bring to this role is the perspective of an intelligence officer who has worked on the front lines overseas and as a consumer of intelligence at the national security council. For every program, every position, every taxpayer dollars spent, I will ask, how does this advance the I.c.'s core mission? How does it serve policymakers? If it does not, why are we doing it? I believe asking these questions are how we make the I.c.
▶ 1:08:24Mr. Lukas: Stronger and better able to do our duty to protect the american people. Once again I think the members of this committee for consideration and look forward to questions.
▶ 1:08:32Chair Cotton: Thank you. Mr. kent.
▶ 1:08:34Mr. Kent: Thank you, chairman cotton, vice chair warner. I want to think the president of the united states and dni gabbard for their trust in my leadership and the opportunity to continue my service to our nation. It is what I consider the fight of my life time and generation, the fight against terrorism. Before we get into that I want to thank chris miller for saying all those wonderful things about me. 20 years ago chris was my battalion commander in iraq.
▶ 1:09:04Mr. Kent: We were knee-deep in that fight in this fight still continues. It is in the honor of all of those who gave their lives in our generation's war on terror that I continue this. For my late wife and all those who are buried. Before I talk about my vision as a leader of the national counterterrorism center. My wife heather is here, served in iraq, afghanistan.
▶ 1:09:30Mr. Kent: After we lost my late wife shannon in a suicide bomber attack, heather came into our lives. A gift from god. I was blessed twice, first by shannon who gave me my sons, and heather, helping us pick up the pieces so we could continue to serve our country. I could not be more grateful she is here today. Of all the titles I have held as a green beret, a special missions unit operator, a cia military operations officer, the best title is d.
▶ 1:10:01Mr. Kent: Colt and josh bless me every time they call me dad. My father chris kent is also here. He has had my back and been my role model my entire life. I could not be more honored to have him here. My mom is tuning and somewhere on c-span as well. She is taking care of my niece who just joined the world, ambergris. I have a slew of kents watching us on c-span so I appreciate their love and support.
▶ 1:10:31Mr. Kent: Joining us from washington, local sheriff's. Sheriff garcia and sheriff swanker. I can't thank them enough for being here to support us. I could not be more honored to be nominated by president trump and I think this is a critical time to continue the fight against terrorism. I would like to say we have accomplished our mission and terrorism is fading into the rearview mirror.
▶ 1:10:55Mr. Kent: I know a lot about our national security establishment and many of us are tired of talking about terrorism, the threats they pose to our country. However, the fight continues. I think the threat posed by terrorists is even worse than it ever has been in years previous to this. For the last four years we had a wide open southern border things to the policies of the biden administration.
▶ 1:11:24Mr. Kent: That lets in countless terrorists from newly designated foreign cartels and also from violent gangs that have gone so far as taking over entire apartment complexes inside the united states. This is a direct result of the wide open southern border policy joe biden had. President trump is committed to identifying these cartels and violent gang members and making sure we locate them and get them out of our country. We deport them by any means necessary.
▶ 1:11:53Mr. Kent: I'm honored to support his quest to do that, to secure our country. We also have massive terrorist threats from overseas. A lot of this due to the debacles of the biden administration. The withdraw from afghanistan was catastrophic, a horrible way to end one of our nation's longest conflicts and is given terrorist sanctuary to isis and other groups exploiting that ungoverned space and the leadership of the taliban.
▶ 1:12:22Mr. Kent: We also had the biden administration's horrible debalce where they brought tens of thousands of unvented afghans into the U.S. ntcc has identified over 1400 of these afghans as having ties to isis and other terrorist groups yet bite and let them into the interior of the U.S. same thing with isis affiliated uzbeks who came into the U.S. as well.
▶ 1:12:49Mr. Kent: Around 600 of them were identified by nctc, in america right now because the biden administration allowed them to stay inside our country. Locating these afghans and others who have come into our country who have any ties to foreign terrorist organizations will be one of my top priorities to get them out of our nation. Another major challenge we have that I'm honored to support trump's prioritization of is securing our border.
▶ 1:13:20Mr. Kent: Nctc plays a vital role in screening and betting anyone who seeks to come into our country and maintain that database and being able to look into the I.c. 's data and local law enforcement data to make sure we connect all the dots and do not let any known or suspected terrorists into our country. Something the president takes seriously and I look forward to supporting him in making sure no more terrorists come into the united states of america.
▶ 1:13:48Mr. Kent: The third mainline of priority we have is, we have to be proactive against the terrorist threats from overseas. I already talked about afghanistan and the major terrorists there.
▶ 1:14:07Mr. Kent: We now have an al qaeda affiliate paraded around as the representative of the syrian government, that is being led by a former member of al qaeda, who was hand selected by one of the 9/11 attack this sanctuary in syria poses a major threat to our national security that we have to address and we have to address this in a very pragmatic way.
▶ 1:14:33Mr. Kent: The past 20-plus years of endless wars and deployments overseas have quite include not address the terror threat we faced after 9/11 and the terror for threat we face now. We have to find a way to strike a reasonable balance and have sustainable counterterrorism efforts and vocally focused on enabling partners, allies, surrogates and proxies. Underpinning all of this is accurate intelligence and that is what nctc and the intelligence community can provide.
▶ 1:14:59Mr. Kent: Accurate intelligence will prevent us from having more endless wars and will tell us exactly where the terrorists are overseas and we can take that out before we come here. Accurate intelligence will stop terrorist from coming into our country and accurate intelligence is going to help us run down everything will terrorist and cartel member that is inside the united states of america and get them the heck out of here. I am honored to be here and honored to be supported by president trump and I look forward to our discussions.
▶ 1:15:25Chair Cotton: Thank you. Mr. eisenberg.
▶ 1:15:31Mr. Eisenberg: I would like to begin by thanking you for holding this hearing and I would like to thank senator cornyn for his gracious introduction. I would also like to thank president trump for the honor of this nomination and the attorney general for her support and confidence in me. I am so fortunate to have the love of my life and -- I will start over I am so fortunate to have the love of my life and my wife here, my wife catherine.
▶ 1:16:00Mr. Eisenberg: Somehow she manages to have a full-time job and take care of the rest of the family. It is no exaggeration to say I would not be here without her support. Her support and encouragement throughout most of my life and during the hardest times has made all the good things in life possible and made the rest of it livable. My son paul and my eldest daughter sarah could not miss school today. I don't remember having that view when I was their age, but that was theirs.
▶ 1:16:24Mr. Eisenberg: My youngest daughter cannot be with us because she has a disorder that causes developmental delays among a lot of other things. She is an inspiration to everyone who knows her. She does not let her disability gets in the way and she greets just about every day with delight. Paul and sarah aren't that bad either. They are the joys of my life and without them my life would be unimaginable to me.
▶ 1:16:52Mr. Eisenberg: I learned the importance of family from my mom who at about five foot tall was the most powerful woman anyone had ever met. No one ever wanted to met with rhoda. Because of her my sister nancy in my brother ethan and I cannot be closer. While my mom passed away more than 10 years ago I am fortunate to have a step father and a father who is here today who are very supportive. I also counted a very small number of friends and family and they know they are. I would like to say something about colleagues.
▶ 1:17:22Mr. Eisenberg: There have been too many to name here and I've had the privilege of working alongside in all my years of government service and during my time at practice. I am truly blessed to have worked with so many who are the embodiment of dedication, lazy intelligence and integrity. I am so grateful to know them. National security is the thread that run through my professional life.
▶ 1:17:47Mr. Eisenberg: I was in alexandria on september 11, 2001 when terrorists attacked our nation resulting in the death of some 3000 people and coordinate attacks on the world trade center and the pentagon. It is hard for people who were not adults and 2001 to understand the effect these attacks had on so many of us. It is easy to forget that follow-on attacks were thought to be very likely. Indeed our success in thwarting other attacks of that magnitude led many to wonder if the threat had been overblown but I can't forget that day.
▶ 1:18:17Mr. Eisenberg: I heard explosions caused by a commercial aircraft colliding with the pentagon and I saw smoke rising from that building. My wife couldn't come home from her office in washington for hours because a necessary metro lines go through the pentagon and that was still burning. I saw f-16's trailing commercial airliners, I suppose escorting them out of the area. My country had really become a battlefield. In my past government jobs I focused on national security.
▶ 1:18:45Mr. Eisenberg: The events of 9/11 instilled in me the need to be part of the response to terrorism. My recent government services has shown me the importance of protecting the nation from myriad threats and I am deeply committed to the rule of law and the constitution. But I also believe the government has a solemn obligation to do what it can within those limits to protect the nation and its people. I was in the department of justice when it set up to national security division and I was part of a team that hope propose and implement azeri changes to bring into the world.
▶ 1:19:15Mr. Eisenberg: It would be a great honor to lead that the vision a dedicated public servants who go to work there every day and who do so because they share the vision of which I spoke to protect this nation. To everyone in nst I look forward to working together should I be performed to protect this great nation and its people from the range of national security threats facing them and I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 1:19:37Chair Cotton: Thank you. Mr. lukas, congress created the office of the director of national intelligence to and insurer integration across the elements while working hand-in-hand with the under secretary of defense for intelligence and security. That is director of defense intelligence and principal adviser to the dni on defense intelligence to ensure that national and military intelligence needs are met.
▶ 1:20:02Chair Cotton: Congress also sought to ensure analytic objectivity standards were set and met. Will you commit to working with this committee to restore odni to what was originally intended to be?
▶ 1:20:14Mr. Lukas: Yes. If confirmed I would commit to that.
▶ 1:20:18Chair Cotton: In your experience is odi on the path to becoming just a part of the bureaucracy it was created to eclipse?
▶ 1:20:27Mr. Lukas: As I said in my opening remarks, I have seen odni grow over the years often without regard to its original mission. So yes I would agree with that statement. As I said earlier I believe odni has a very important role to play. But we need to ensure it is focused only on that role and not engaged in business properly left to other I.c. Agencies.
▶ 1:20:51Chair Cotton: Thank you. One point in particular is the relationship between the I.c. Intelligence community, and the department of defense. I am not aware of many processes or effective procedures for ensuring the needed collaboration between the dni and under secretary of defense for intelligence and security. What are your thoughts on how we can improve that relationship?
▶ 1:21:18Mr. Lukas: I do agree that is a critical relationship. The dod brings a lot to the intelligence community. A lot of resources, a lot of individuals, a lot of power. My understanding is that currently there is a weekly sync between the directors advisors for military affairs and osd ins. If confirmed, I would certainly expect that I would also have regular communication with that same office with the under secretary.
▶ 1:21:47Mr. Lukas: And I would be willing to work with the committee to look at whether we need any sort of formal processes or procedures to put in place to ensure that that coordination is continuing as it should.
▶ 1:21:57Chair Cotton: Let's turn our attention to china. This year's annual threat assessment stated quote, china stands out as the actor most capable of threatening U.S. interests globally, end quote. There is of course bipartisan support in congress for ensuring that the chinese communists don't achieve the goals in replacing the united states as the world's dominant economic and therefore military superpower.
▶ 1:22:25Chair Cotton: What is your opinion on whether the intelligence community is currently properly postured to address the threat posed by communist china?
▶ 1:22:33Mr. Lukas: Thank you for the question. I have seen over any years as an intelligence officer has assessed that china is a key adversary and has placed a high priority on collecting and analyzing information to provide to policymakers regarding china's plans and intentions. If confirmed, I would certainly look forward to working with the I.c.
▶ 1:22:59Mr. Lukas: Agencies themselves to ensure they are adequately resourced and are placing those resources in the areas that they need to be vis-a-vis china. That is of course if I am confirmed. I lack that birdseye view right now frankly of what each agency. Certainly that would be a priority for me if confirmed.
▶ 1:23:21Chair Cotton: Thank you. Mr. kent, I want to turn to the threat of terrorism. China is without question are most serious long-term threat. The only nation that has the size and the wealth and power to potentially replace the united states as the world's dominant power. But as you say in your opening statement, the threat of terrorism remains serious and ongoing.
▶ 1:23:50Chair Cotton: To borrow from a quote sometimes attributed to trotsky, you may not be interested in terrorism anymore but terrorism is still interested in you. Is that correct and something americans need to understand?
▶ 1:24:03Mr. Kent: I think that is 100% accurate. We have real threats that come from the chinese communist party other traditional state actors. However terrorists want to kill us right now in this moment and tragically many of them are already here inside the united states and there are countless other adversaries we have that a terrorist overseas plotting to kill us right now so we have to stay vigilant.
▶ 1:24:24Chair Cotton: Thank you. Vice chairman.
▶ 1:24:26Sen. Warner: Thank you. Again gentlemen, thank you for your willingness to serve. Mr. kent, you are currently acting chief of staff to director gabbert.
▶ 1:24:36Mr. Kent: Yes.
▶ 1:24:39Sen. Warner: Was director gabbert consulted before hawk was fired as nsa director?
▶ 1:24:46Mr. Kent: I was not aware of any conversations that took place but that doesn't mean they didn't have them.
▶ 1:24:52Sen. Warner: I just felt like if she wasn't, I would be even further concerned that you are taking a 30 year career veteran who had uniform support, and I think the firing was uncalled for and I would be concerned if the director had not been notified. We talked about this before but I want to go through it again. You participated in the group chat that was subject of the atlantic article published by jeffrey goldberg on march 24, 2025, correct?
▶ 1:25:22Mr. Kent: Was I in the chat? I was.
▶ 1:25:26Sen. Warner: Yes. Did you use a personal phone or a government phone?
▶ 1:25:32Mr. Kent: There is currently ongoing litigation I cannot give you more details.
▶ 1:25:37Sen. Warner: I am disappointed by that answer. What about this. Do you know whether your device has been actually taken and scanned for any malware that might be put into it?
▶ 1:25:48Mr. Kent: We followed all the security procedures and took all security precautions.
▶ 1:25:54Sen. Warner: You took all security procedures and did everything appropriate? Again, I don't question your patriotism, but I find that an astounding answer. There have been reports there were 20 other group chats that director walt had that included subjects like ukraine, china, gaza. Were you involved in any of those chats?
▶ 1:26:23Mr. Kent: I was not.
▶ 1:26:24Sen. Warner: So any of the other 20 that were reported, you did not participate?
▶ 1:26:29Mr. Kent: There is ongoing litigation about this so there is not much more I can say.
▶ 1:26:38Sen. Warner: [deep sigh] has anyone with classification authority reviewed -- I don't have to read through the comments you made in that chat, but you are stating before this committee that information relaying the timing of an attack from american forces, that it had been discovered, could have cost our pilots' lives, you are
▶ 1:27:11Sen. Warner: Still making the statement that none of that was classified?
▶ 1:27:13Mr. Kent: There was no classified information in the chat and all the circumstances around are currently under ongoing litigation so there's not much I can say.
▶ 1:27:22Sen. Warner: Again, as I said at the outset, I don't doubt your patriotism but I really doubt your judgment on that. Mr. lukas, you also said, and I was really astounded, in your pre-questioning hearing, quote, the information relating to the atlantic article could have reasonably been deemed unclassified. You have been a cia agent a long time.
▶ 1:27:53Sen. Warner: Are you familiar with other times when a defense secretary was willing to share impending military operations on unsecured devices between the operations took place?
▶ 1:28:05Mr. Lukas: I am a career intelligence officer, I am not a military officer. I had not beeprivy to any war plans in any form classified or unclassified.
▶ 1:28:17Sen. Warner: If you as a cia officer had released this kind of information or put it on an unsecured device, wouldn't you have been reprimanded or fired?
▶ 1:28:30Mr. Lukas: All I can say is the white house and department of defense has said the information in the chat had not gone through a classification process. I have no reason to doubt that.
▶ 1:28:41Sen. Warner: Again, I respect your service, but giving out on an unsecured commercial connected device information that relays the specifics of an american attack on a foreign adversary, that if it had gotten out -- I would love both of you gentlemen to come down to virginia beach and meet with the 800-plus virginians who I met
▶ 1:29:11Sen. Warner: With, who many of them knew sailors on the truman. The crowd was 90% veterans. Gentlemen, your answers would not stand. They would hoot you out of the room when that kind of information is so carelessly handled. Again, I cannot believe any of the three of you would have ever done this.
▶ 1:29:38Sen. Warner: I find it really disappointing that you are still standing by the flimsy, careless behavior.
▶ 1:29:45Chair Cotton: Senator collins.
▶ 1:29:47Sen. Collins: Thank you. Mr. kent, you have an extraordinary career serving your country. 20 years in uniform in the war against terror. You have also worked at the cia. You are now acting chief of staff at the dni.
▶ 1:30:11Sen. Collins: So with all that experience, when you were part of the group chat on signal, did it occur to you during the conversation that, hey, maybe I should say something? Some of the information that is being talked about could jeopardize our war fighters or be useful to the houthis?
▶ 1:30:40Sen. Collins: Did you have that thought at any point during the discussion?
▶ 1:30:44Mr. Kent: I did not.
▶ 1:30:47Sen. Collins: So, that raises in my mind whether there is routine use of the signal application platform in order to have conversations about very sensitive information.
▶ 1:31:11Sen. Collins: Maybe it hasn't gone through a classification review, but if you are talking about war plans, that is pretty sensitive information. Is signal used commonly, to your knowledge, for those kinds of discussions?
▶ 1:31:30Mr. Kent: Signal was installed on my government work phone when I received it and signal has pretty adequate two-way encryption. So, signal is routinely used and approved by the chain of command.
▶ 1:31:44Sen. Collins: Does it concern you that one of the people on the group chat was in russia at the time? We know that russia is trying very hard to penetrate our communications systems.
▶ 1:32:02Mr. Kent: There was no classified information discussed so that was not a concern to me.
▶ 1:32:07Sen. Collins: Well, I hope that this is something, should you be confirmed, that you will take a hard look at. I too have the signal application on my phone. But I don't use it to discuss highly sensitive information.
▶ 1:32:29Sen. Collins: And I think we need perhaps guidelines that are clearer to members of the intelligence community and the department of defense to make sure that we don't have a repeat of this. I know that at least you must be concerned that there was a reporter on the phone. Does that concern you?
▶ 1:32:49Mr. Kent: Most certainly.
▶ 1:32:52Sen. Collins: I want to turn to a different issue. As I left to vote you are starting to get into this. When I look at the most imminent threats facing our nation right now, to me, it's a counterterrorism attack. Isis is growing.
▶ 1:33:20Sen. Collins: It is operating in somalia and afghanistan, pakistan. There were over 700 attacks in syria in 2024 alone. Al qaeda is reemerging as well. We know about the houthi attacks on our naval ships, on international shipping.
▶ 1:33:44Sen. Collins: My concern is that we have had a shift away from focusing on counterterrorism, and instead on great power competition. Which certainly is important. But if I look at what I am most worried about happening tomorrow, it is a terrorist attack. Could you comment on that issue and how you think we balance the competing needs?
▶ 1:34:14Mr. Kent: Certainly. I share your concerns and your view. The terrorist threats posed by al qaeda and the iranian threat network are countless and have only grown in recent years because of all the sanctuary kind is our terrorists have been able to cultivate. I think we have to strike a balance where we have constant vigilance and I think a lot of this ties back into who we let into our country.
▶ 1:34:40Mr. Kent: Right now all the lights are blinking red because we have had open borders and we don't know who is in our country. When nctc did what they were supposed to do and identified terrorist threats they were ignored. This is why I'm very concerned. Focusing heavily on making sure we locate all the terrorists inside of our country including the cartels and criminal terrorist gangs and getting them out of our country and securing the border, that is essential. Taking sure we keep the finger on the pulse overseas and we do that by enabling our intelligence community.
▶ 1:35:09Sen. Collins: Thank you.
▶ 1:35:12Chair Cotton: As I alluded at the outset there is other bennis -- business on the senate floor to which I have to attend. I am going to put the committee in the capable hands of senator budd. It depends on how persuasive my democratic colleagues found me in the senate what might be a long time. In the meantime I recognize senator kelly for his five minutes and turned the gavel over to senator budd.
▶ 1:35:42Sen. Kelly: Mr. kent, on may 2, 2011, the U.S. conducted operation neptune spear in which seal team six shot and killed osama bin laden. That occurred in about a bad, pakistan. Mr. kent, you are a special operator, is that correct?
▶ 1:36:02Mr. Kent: That is correct.
▶ 1:36:04Sen. Kelly: Would it have been appropriate for the obama administration to share on an unsecured app, two hours prior to that mission, that navy special operators were inbound to pakistan to conduct that specific operation?
▶ 1:36:27Mr. Kent: On an unsecured app, absolute not.
▶ 1:36:31Sen. Kelly: Absolutely not. I just wanted to clarify based on what the chairman just asked you.
▶ 1:36:38Mr. Kent: Signal --
▶ 1:36:42Sen. Kelly: It is an unsecured platform. Is available to the general public. If you had any intelligence with the intelligence community, which I think you do, is that correct?
▶ 1:36:52Mr. Kent: That is correct.
▶ 1:36:54Sen. Kelly: You would understand that it is not a secure platform. I want to go on to something else. This concerns january 6. Do you believe the violence on january 6 was intentionally organized or directed?
▶ 1:37:11Mr. Kent: It is still under investigation and we are looking into other elements of the government could have enhanced the criminal acuity of some of the rioters that day.
▶ 1:37:21Sen. Kelly: You have said on twitter that the fbi and the intelligence community were involved in planning and directing the riot. Is that correct?
▶ 1:37:33Mr. Kent: Sounds like something I said.
▶ 1:37:35Sen. Kelly: What evidence do you have for that claim?
▶ 1:37:38Mr. Kent: We have identified that there are multiple confidential human informants ran by the fbi and other law enforcement agencies that were present in the crowd that day directing and removing barriers, those types of things. This has been investigated widely. I would say the fbi and other elements of the law enforcement apparatus attempted to suppress the fact there was undercover financial human informants part of these groups.
▶ 1:38:11Mr. Kent: We had intelligence leading up to january 6 that there was going to be violence that day. So that speaks to some angry of -- degree of intelligence integration.
▶ 1:38:18Sen. Kelly: Who within the fbi?
▶ 1:38:20Mr. Kent: We are looking into that.
▶ 1:38:22Sen. Kelly: Which departments of the fbi?
▶ 1:38:25Mr. Kent: Probably the washington field office.
▶ 1:38:27Sen. Kelly: So you believe the washington field office was involved in the planning of the violence in the building next door on january 6?
▶ 1:38:39Mr. Kent: It is being looked into.
▶ 1:38:41Sen. Kelly: Who is looking into it?
▶ 1:38:43Mr. Kent: We are in the intelligence community.
▶ 1:38:46Sen. Kelly: Do you believe the I.c. Conducts actions of this nature against americans?
▶ 1:38:53Mr. Kent: Well, the fbi and other law enforcement agencies entrapping individuals. If you look at who was running the washington field office during january 6 he was also running the field office in michigan where many of the defendants were let go after they were accused of attempting to kidnap governor because the vast majority of them were undercover fbi confidential informants.
▶ 1:39:18Mr. Kent: So unfortunately this behavior does happen by members of law enforcement and the intelligence community and it is incumbent upon us to make sure we are transparent with the american people.
▶ 1:39:27Sen. Kelly: Would you be willing to share this evidence of this investigation with this committee?
▶ 1:39:32Mr. Kent: I look forward to it.
▶ 1:39:33Sen. Kelly: Are you aware that procedures have long considered attempts to overthrow the government as a serious red flag?
▶ 1:39:40Mr. Kent: Yes.
▶ 1:39:41Sen. Kelly: Would you have concerns about getting a security clearance to someone who participated in violent acts at the capitol on january 6 in an attempt to overturn election?
▶ 1:39:53Mr. Kent: I have consistently condemned anyone who used any act of violence against law enforcement or anyone else.
▶ 1:40:00Sen. Kelly: So in your current role as chief of staff to the dni, you would not be in favor of approving any kind of clearance for someone who participated in any violence against the united states?
▶ 1:40:13Mr. Kent: If you commit an act of violence against a police officer or anybody else you have nowhere to go. You get your day in court and that is it.
▶ 1:40:21Sen. Kelly: Traditionally the I.c.'s counterterrorism efforts have focused on foreign terrorist organizations. Cartels have now been similarly designated. Would you seek to expand that to other groups you propose treating like terrorists?
▶ 1:40:37Mr. Kent: We have our work cut out for us right now with imminent threats coming from isis, al qaeda. Cartels and violent gangs were just designated. I think if another group rises to the threshold of presenting a threat we would present that to the president and give them the option of designating them.
▶ 1:40:55Sen. Kelly: So you think there are other groups that have risen to that level?
▶ 1:40:58Mr. Kent: As of right now no, I do not.
▶ 1:41:02Chair Budd: Senator cornyn, you are recognized.
▶ 1:41:06Sen. Cornyn: You and I discussed in our office one of the problems we have had. Usually a lack of trust in our government and government institutions because of the misconduct of individuals who have created a lack of confidence in our intelligence community, including the cia and other agencies.
▶ 1:41:35Sen. Cornyn: But my hope is that now the new administration is in place that that will no longer be the concern that it was previously. Specifically you and I talked about the foreign intelligence surveillance act 702. In your lengthy experience as an intelligence officer, have you found that authority to be useful?
▶ 1:42:03Mr. Lukas: I appreciated our chance to chat in your office. As a career cia officer I used information collected under section 702 information on a very regular basis. As I expressed to you in our previous chats, I believe that this authority is critical to U.S. national security.
▶ 1:42:28Mr. Lukas: I believe that while valid concerns have been raised at various points about how the process is used that the reforms that were undertaken last year largely addressed those concerns and that this is an essential tool that should be reauthorized.
▶ 1:42:42Sen. Cornyn: You don't see any need for additional reforms at this time?
▶ 1:42:46Mr. Lukas: I would just commit that if confirmed I would be very happy to work with the oversight committees to look at whether additional reforms are needed. But personally I am confident that sufficient safeguards are currently in place to ensure the privacy and civil liberties of americans are respected.
▶ 1:43:04Sen. Cornyn: Thank you. Mr. kent, senator kelly talked about foreign teller -- foreign terrorist organizations. The cartels in mexico have now been designated as such. Obviously the scourge of fentanyl is the leading cause of death of young people between the age of 18 and 45 in this country.
▶ 1:43:29Sen. Cornyn: Unfortunately, mexico has a serious problem with the cartels and the fact that corruption makes it exceedingly difficult for us or for the mexican government itself to deal with this threat. How would you prioritize this threat of drug trafficking organizations like the drug cartels in mexico? How would you approach that in order things not being done now that you think should be done?
▶ 1:43:57Mr. Kent: I agree with president trump that we have to take on these cartels like we take on terrorists. The cartels have killed hundreds of thousands of americans over the years with fentanyl so I'm glad we are finally taking this seriously. Number one I think supporting what is taking place right now on the southern border and making sure we have strong border security so we can prevent fentanyl from coming into the country is essential. We also need to work hand-in-hand with the mexican government.
▶ 1:44:25Mr. Kent: Most of us in the intelligence community have been pleasantly surprised to see how cooperative the mexican government has been. It seems they want to take out these cartels as well. Working with the mexican government, enabling them to take out these cartels, these cartel leaders. We need to trace the precursor trail back to where it originates. Much of the ingredients for fentanyl is coming from china, some is coming from india.
▶ 1:44:49Mr. Kent: We are going to need our diplomacy and use economic average to make sure we cut off the fentanyl precursors from actually entering mexico as well.
▶ 1:44:58Sen. Cornyn: Mr. eisenberg, do you agree with me that the people's republic of china under control of president xi and the chinese communist party endeavor to undermine the united states nearly all cost in order to achieve their ambitions of dominance?
▶ 1:45:15Mr. Eisenberg: Senator, yeah, I certainly agree that china is our main and most existential long-term competitor.
▶ 1:45:26Sen. Cornyn: With that in mind should american entities be investing in entities intron only for them to develop, deploy, and weaponize them against us in furtherance of their goals?
▶ 1:45:38Mr. Eisenberg: That is a difficult question that I have just never looked into.
▶ 1:45:42Sen. Cornyn: I know it is a difficult question. That is why I ask you.
▶ 1:45:47Mr. Eisenberg: Can iphone a friend? That is something I would look forward to if confirmed. I can see issues on both sides of it. Obviously there is a good reason to not do that if you are an american company, for example. I can also understand why engagement is also a reasonable strategy. If I were an american company, I would be very hesitant to get involved in that.
▶ 1:46:13Sen. Cornyn: Unfortunately the attraction of the huge chinese market and the money that would be generated from that seems to drive decisions about investments in china. As you may know, we have the fight china act, the foreign investment guard rails. It is one that would provide some outbound investment transparency.
▶ 1:46:41Sen. Cornyn: Particularly in the sensitive technologies that we are working on with the administration. Right now we are working with the treasury department and others to try and provide technical assistance so we can get this right. But I look forward to working with you and the rest of the intelligence community to get this done. I think it is absently critical.
▶ 1:47:05Sen. Cornyn: Inadvertently american companies are providing the financial resources necessary not only to modernize the chinese economy but to help them weaponize their military -- modernize their weapons and military to achieve their mission of taking taiwan for example by military force. It makes no sense to me that we would encourage or allow that and be blind to the consequences.
▶ 1:47:36Sen. Cornyn: So thank you for your answer and I thank each of you for being here and your willingness to serve.
▶ 1:47:43Chair Budd: Senator kagan you are recognized.
▶ 1:47:52Sen. Kagan: Mr. kent, I walked in when you are talking about the threat of terrorism and I'm glad you have identified that so I come from it you on that. I wanted to ask you, you mentioned the withdrawal from afghanistan. Do you know when that decision was made and who made it?
▶ 1:48:13Mr. Kent: We withdraw from afghanistan?
▶ 1:48:16Sen. King: Yes.
▶ 1:48:17Mr. Kent: It appears it was not very well coordinated and it was not made at the same time but it was made somewhere around august of 2021.
▶ 1:48:24Sen. King: Actually it was made in february of 2020 by president trump when he signed the doha agreement which said we would leave afghanistan by may of 2021, as long as the taliban doesn't shoot at us. Yet that discussion did not include the afghan government. So the decision to leave afghanistan was made by the trump administration 1.5 years before the actual withdrawal.
▶ 1:48:51Mr. Kent: Actually president trump attempted to get us out ahead of that but then we had militants -- members of the intelligence community and members of the media who spread an extension of the russia hoax and said putin was putting bounties on the head of american soldiers --
▶ 1:49:09Sen. King: The russia hoax? Are you aware that on august 2, 2016, then-candidate trump's campaign manager had dinner with russian agents and shared internal polling data with russia. Do you consider that the russia hoax?
▶ 1:49:32Mr. Kent: That has been widely debunked.
▶ 1:49:34Sen. King: Respond to my question. Are you aware --
▶ 1:49:40Mr. Kent: Myself and the american people are aware of the origin of the russia hoax.
▶ 1:49:48Sen. King: You are doing a pretty good job of not talking about that dinner. Do you know how significant internal polling data is? It tells you where your strengths and weaknesses are, where the battleground states are.
▶ 1:50:03Sen. King: That information being handed over to an agent of russian intelligence -- by the way, this was found unanimously by this committee in our report on the russian involvement in the 2016 election. Let's move on. You mentioned several times there was no classified information in that telephone call. In that signal chat.
▶ 1:50:30Sen. King: So you don't consider the timing of an attack, the weapons being used and when those weapons are going to be deployed as sensitive -- I realize it was not formally classified, but if you had done that as a junior staffer at the national security council when you have been fired? To hand out that kind of information on an insecure public platform?
▶ 1:50:56Mr. Kent: There was no classified information in that signal chat.
▶ 1:51:00Sen. King: So, telling an adversary when the attack is going to happen, that is not classified? You are saying it is not classified. You are just giving it a bit of semantics. But any person in this room would tell us that attack plans involving timing and weapons would be of immense value.
▶ 1:51:26Sen. King: If it had been the houthis instead of jeff goldberg, we would have lost pilots and that strike, would we not?
▶ 1:51:31Mr. Kent: There is no classified information and it is currently under litigation.
▶ 1:51:36Sen. King: You can't even tell us what telephone you were using. What possible litigation excuse is there for not telling us what telephone you are using?
▶ 1:51:46Mr. Kent: It is currently under litigation.
▶ 1:51:48Sen. King: What is the litigation?
▶ 1:51:50Mr. Kent: There is litigation against multiple members in the chat group right now.
▶ 1:51:55Sen. King: Well, you say it's not classified. If it looks and sounds like a duck, it's classified. Mr. eisenberg, the annual threat assessment tells us that our adversaries, russia, china, iran, are stepping up boebert influence.
▶ 1:52:17Sen. King: And yet in the administration, I guess I would call it the department formally known as justice, the administration just banned the foreign -- how is that possibly going to make this country safer in light of the intelligence communities assessment a month ago that foreign influence was a rising threat to this country?
▶ 1:52:47Sen. King: I call that unilateral disarmament.
▶ 1:52:49Mr. Eisenberg: Uh, senator, uh, I believe the --
▶ 1:52:54Sen. King: Can you get closer to your microphone?
▶ 1:52:57Mr. Eisenberg: The amendment you refer to does not end all fara enforcement. It limits criminal enforcement to traditional espionage with foreign powers. It doesn't end all enforcement.
▶ 1:53:14Sen. King: It narrows it, does it not?
▶ 1:53:18Mr. Eisenberg: Yes. The fact an entity no longer exist doesn't mean the people who had the skills previously in the department are no longer there.
▶ 1:53:26Sen. King: Do you know if they are still there or have they been fired?
▶ 1:53:30Mr. Eisenberg: I don't know. I do not know.
▶ 1:53:34Sen. King: Thank you.
▶ 1:53:38Chair Budd: I recognize myself. Thanks to each of you for your service and willingness to continue to serve. Mr. eisenberg, you mentioned about the threat from china. If you would elaborate a bit on that and then also talk about what changes and priority shifts are necessary to posture the U.S. to counter the threat posed by the ccp.
▶ 1:54:02Mr. Eisenberg: Sure. First of all, I should say it has been about four years since I reviewed intelligence. But it is clear that china is our main strategic competitor in the world and wishes us a long and happy retirement in which we buy their goods and don't sell ours there.
▶ 1:54:27Mr. Eisenberg: I think it is a situation in which we should use all instrument of national power to help the united states get better footing in that war, in that battle. What exactly that looks like is something I cannot say at the moment. It is something I would look into if I were confirmed.
▶ 1:54:45Chair Budd: Mr. lukas, same question, particularly the part about what priority shifts are necessary to posture us to better counter the threat posed by the ccp.
▶ 1:54:56Mr. Lukas: Thank you, senator. I do recognize and the intelligence community recognizes china is america's key strategic adversary. I can assure you the I.c. Is currently postured in a way that prioritizes collection across many fronts.
▶ 1:55:21Mr. Lukas: In terms of what additional posturing might need to do in that area unfortunately I'm not in a position to comment on that although I would be happy to work with both the committee and you one-on-one to come up with a plan for moving forward in that area.
▶ 1:55:37Chair Budd: Thank you. Mr. kent, I enjoyed time with you several weeks ago. As an experienced professional and counterterrorism, what you see as the benefits of applying the ct mindset which you have used over the years to a counter narcotics problem that we see coming from the southern border, or maybe even the northern border, just the ct to the counter narcotics challenge.
▶ 1:56:00Mr. Kent: Thank you also enjoyed our conversation in your office. I think we have learned a lot of lessons about how we defeat decentralized networks, the best way to attack those nodes. And in particular the best way to integrate intelligence, intelligence fusion, and make sure intelligence is getting in the hands of those were on the front lines. Whether that is guys overseas kicking indoors or in the hands of our patrolman and sheriff's deputies patrolling our streets.
▶ 1:56:28Chair Budd: Thank you for that. Mr. lukas, back to you. I enjoyed your opening comments and also your history. So you have been there and done that. But let me get your thoughts as a potential pd dni if confirmed. You're going to be responsible for the I.c.'s budget, at least for crafting it.
▶ 1:56:50Chair Budd: So what is your budget -- what is your vision for making it more efficient while still being insured we have the most effective intelligence capability?
▶ 1:56:59Mr. Lukas: Thank you, senator. If I am confirmed as pd dni of course my primary role will be to support director gathered -- gabbard's budget. The important thing to remember is deconfliction. That is what odni needs to do.
▶ 1:57:20Mr. Lukas: We need to make sure from that odni odn -- from that position that the agencies are not wasting money spending on things that are duplicative. That is the unique value odni brings to that. If confirmed I can pledge to you I will work with director gabbard and to ensure odni is carrying out that duty.
▶ 1:57:42Chair Budd: Having a to do list is second to having a stop to enlist. In this setting do you have anything you can share with us it would be on the stop doing list?
▶ 1:57:53Mr. Lukas: Over the years I have seen a lot of things I think the ice he probably stop doing. Unfortunately in this setting it is very difficult to speak about those because some of those are vulnerabilities and things we would not like to discuss. I would be happy to come back and meet with you or talk later in a classified setting.
▶ 1:58:15Chair Budd: Mr. kent and Mr. lukas, if there is time. Mr. kent, you served at the cia. How important is it that the I.c. Not be politicized and that policymakers and operations officers are receiving unbiased, objective intelligence?
▶ 1:58:33Mr. Kent: Nothing could be more important. We have to take polarization out of the intelligence community. We have to make sure the truth gets up to those making policy and those on the front lines in harm's way. If confirmed you will have our commitment that nctc will be nonpolitical and focused solely on going after our nations enemies.
▶ 1:58:53Mr. Lukas: I absolutely share Mr. kent's thoughts on that issue. The intelligence community has nothing if it doesn't have trust. It is absolutely important and critical for us to provide a political, unbiased intelligence that policymakers can rely on.
▶ 1:59:12Chair Budd: Thank you all.
▶ 1:59:16Sen. Wyden: In my view, Mr. kentt views, which are well known in the pacific northwest, thoroughly disquiet him -- thoroughly disqualify him from any leadership position. Certainly one that designates who is and is not a terrorist. I am going to begin with your ominous record with working with the bush administration.
▶ 1:59:47Sen. Wyden: You contributed to memos that authorized illegal surveillance. Yet so far you have refused to provide any details about this work. Even worse is that in some cases you have refused to acknowledge that the reforms passed by congress to address these abuses are actually binding. In 2008 congress passed legislation reconfirming the government needs a warrant to conduct surveillance in the united states.
▶ 2:00:18Sen. Wyden: That was indirect response to the memo you helped write, which said the president has unlimited authority to conduct warrantless surveillance. I asked you a question as to whether that 2008 law is binding. You said yes, but only to the extent that law is constitutional. So I would like to give you another chance.
▶ 2:00:47Sen. Wyden: Is that law binding or do you believe there should be a constitutional argument that would allow the president to get around the law?
▶ 2:00:54Mr. Kent: --
▶ 2:00:57Mr. Eisenberg: You are asking me about things I worked on 20 years ago and I don't have access to. It is hard for me to remember.
▶ 2:01:05Sen. Wyden: Is not a complicated question. It is about whether or not you are forewarned less surveillance -- about laurentl -- about wa rrantless surveillance.
▶ 2:01:19Mr. Eisenberg: What are you asking me?
▶ 2:01:22Sen. Wyden: Your answer when we got the response said yes, the 2008 lwaw requires a warrant, bt only to the extent the law is constitutional. So what is your position on warrantless surveillance?
▶ 2:01:40Sen. Wyden: Are you asking me as a policy matter or as a legal matter?
▶ 2:01:46Sen. Wyden: Is the law binding or do you believe there should be some constitutional argument that would allow the president to get around the law?
▶ 2:01:55Mr. Eisenberg: Senator, without being able to talk to a bunch of other lawyers and think about all the possible circumstances I am unwilling to say that a law could never be unconstitutional as applied. There is always the possibility for some application to be unconstitutional. I think the careful lawyer --.
▶ 2:02:15Sen. Wyden: That is not what the law says. In 2015 congress passed legislation per having both collection of phone and email records in response to the revelations the government had collected the records of millions of innocent americans. So here I asked you whether bulk collection is, as congress clearly intended, currently illegal. You responded that it depends on the facts of the law and that it is a hypothetical.
▶ 2:02:45Sen. Wyden: So again I would like to give you another chance. Does bulk collection of phone and email records currently illegal?
▶ 2:02:52Mr. Eisenberg: I cannot say without thinking more about it. These are complicated questions of constitutional law and statutory interpretation. The opinion on surveillance we discussed earlier is like 70 pages or something. They are very long and detailed. It is not something I can just give an off-the-cuff answer. Those are difficult questions.
▶ 2:03:16Sen. Wyden: You have been working in these areas for years and years. The reality is these are straightforward propositions embedded in black letter text and you won't give an answer. I am going to hold the record open so that you can continue to ruminate on this which you apparently feel is necessary to answer what I think is a straightforward question. I will wrap up with one other one and I will see what your response is on this.
▶ 2:03:47Sen. Wyden: In october of 2022 the department of justice issued a policy restricting collection of information on journalists. Director gabbard said she supported continuing that policy. She said it was essential to protecting press freedoms and maintaining critical balance between national security and upholding the first amendment. Mr. lukas, who is sitting at the table with you, agrees with director gabbard. So once again, we are talking about a pretty straightforward policy position and I would like to know what your views are.
▶ 2:04:19Sen. Wyden: Mr. eisenberg I am sorry --
▶ 2:04:23Mr. Eisenberg: I am sorry, I cannot answer about a policy I have not had time to review.
▶ 2:04:30Sen. Wyden: Director gabbard says she supports the policy but that is immaterial to you?
▶ 2:04:35Mr. Eisenberg: No, that is not immaterial. You're asking for my opinion and I am saying I cannot do that without having reviewed the actual policy you're asking about. I cannot tell you what I think of a policy I have never seen.
▶ 2:04:48Sen. Wyden: You haven't ever heard about this? This is a first impression of you. You haven't heard about this?
▶ 2:04:55Mr. Eisenberg: The devil is in the details. I do not know the details of the policy.
▶ 2:05:00Sen. Wyden: This is black letter text. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:05:04Chair Budd: Senator young.
▶ 2:05:07Sen: Young: Mr. eisenberg, the trump administration has rightly put focus on disrupting and entering china's malign influence within the united states.
▶ 2:05:23Sen: From a legal perspective and with the tools and authorities of the department of justice in mind, what do you see as the most urgent actions, the most urgent actions that we should be pursuing to stop this malign influence, disrupt ip theft, and economic and tech espionage?
▶ 2:05:48Mr. Eisenberg: Thanks for the question. For a more complete answer I would certainly want to discuss it with the professionals, but it seems to me that making sure we have all the intelligence collection we can in order to find all of our vulnerabilities and adequate cybersecurity would be a very good start.
▶ 2:06:10Sen. Young: So, an inventory of the cyber capabilities. How would you go about that?
▶ 2:06:19Mr. Eisenberg: I would talk to the people who have those abilities and who are in charge of those not just in the department of justice but around the intelligence community.
▶ 2:06:31Sen. Young: People like?
▶ 2:06:33Mr. Eisenberg: Uhh, nsa, various other intelligence organizations that do these things.
▶ 2:06:40Sen. Young: If confirmed what laws and regulations do you anticipate relying on in executing your role and nsd's role in this priority of cyberspace?
▶ 2:06:53Mr. Eisenberg: Well, foreign intelligence surveillance act would be one to be able to collect the necessary intelligence to find our vulnerabilities. Essentially any tool to collect information we have would be very important in able to ascertain and learn as much as we can about our various vulnerabilities.
▶ 2:07:14Sen. Young: Have you reviewed and are you deeply familiar with the laws and regulations that would govern your position, your conduct and responsibilities?
▶ 2:07:27Mr. Eisenberg: I am familiar with some of them. But there are quite a number the national security division administers. I am more familiar with some then and -- then I am with others.
▶ 2:07:42Sen. Young: Thank you. Mr. lukas, I think we share a view that we need more people from all kinds of backgrounds and experiences as we reform and fix the I.c.'s enterprise, bringing different perspectives and ideas to the fore. If confirmed, can you speak to what your priorities would be in attracting, recruiting, and attaining such a workforce?
▶ 2:08:11Mr. Lukas: Yes, and I appreciated our conversation in your office where we talked about this topic. My view is that particularly the analytical cadre of the U.S. intelligence community needs a wide diversity of backgrounds, skills, and viewpoints. That is quite different from having a political dogma michael diversity, equity, and inclusion.
▶ 2:08:35Mr. Lukas: Part of that would be reaching out in terms of our recruitment efforts, looking across the country to universities where the I.c. Has not traditionally been active and looking to bring in a much broader community of new analysts who are then able to work on the questions facing our nation.
▶ 2:08:54Sen. Young: Thank you. I find that any organization runs best if it is open to free exchange and an honest, even a brutal conversation with the truth and have heated arguments on closed doors before important decisions are made and all the rest. Seems like you embrace that. Is that an accurate characterization?
▶ 2:09:19Mr. Lukas: Yes, that is inaccurate characterization.
▶ 2:09:24Sen. Young: What tangible actions would you enact in deference of good decision-making as a relates to receiving different ideas and perspectives?
▶ 2:09:38Mr. Lukas: I think it would be critical for the director to be in regular contact with the heads of the I.c. Agencies to the understanding of how they are conducting their recruitment, what cultures they are trying to build based around objectivity and non-politicization of intelligence. She needs to dig in and understand the problems the community is facing and I believe we have a director who is already doing that.
▶ 2:10:07Chair Budd: Senator collins has a follow-up question.
▶ 2:10:11Sen. Collins: Thank you. Mr. kent, you had an exchange earlier about our country's withdrawal from afghanistan. In fact, that withdrawal, which was poorly executed and resulted in the deaths of 13 service members, occurred during the biden administration, not the first trump administration. Is that correct?
▶ 2:10:43Mr. Kent: That's correct.
▶ 2:10:46Sen. Collins: Thank you.
▶ 2:10:49Chair Budd: I bet he is very happy you gave him a chance to correct the record on that one.
▶ 2:11:01Sen. Warner: I appreciate your service but I have been very disappointed by your answers. Mr. kent, you have two great boys there. And you have your absolute right to have the views that all these bad things emanated from president biden. Frankly, on a number of those things I agree.
▶ 2:11:25Sen. Warner: But I don't respect -- don't expect a response or comment, but I just do not believe that if joe biden's administration had as carelessly handled classified information, that you for accountability and responsibility. -- first calling for accountability and responsibility. That is not the case here. I imagine all three of you will be confirmed.
▶ 2:11:55Sen. Warner: But when you take that oath, it' s an oath to a constitution and not a single individual. I hope that when you are in these positions you will speak truth to power.
▶ 2:12:07Chair Budd: Thank you. As I mentioned earlier it is my intention to hold committee vote on your nominations as soon as possible. Therefore for planning purposes any member who wishes to submit questions to the record after today's hearing please do so by close of business tomorrow. I am confident we can expect prompt answers from our nominees.
▶ 2:12:30Chair Budd: I do expect given many of our members were absent due to other business this afternoon you may have a few more written questions than normal so we would appreciate your prompt attention. Mr. kent, Mr. lukas, I expect to move to your nomination when we return from our april work period. Mr. eisenberg, you still need to appear before the judge dearie committee and will move promptly forward once that. Thank you all. The hearing is adjourned.
▶ 2:12:59Chair Budd: [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]