▶ 0:04:56Chair Scott: Call this committee to order. Good morning. Before we begin I want to take a moment to recognize someone who has served this committee and this institution with extraordinary integrity and commitment. Our chief clerk. Please, stand, cameron.
▶ 0:05:21Chair Scott: [applause] cameron has decided to stay. [laughter] he didn't know it either, by the way. Cameron has worked under three different chairman, senator mike crapo, senator sherrod brown, and now me. Has served each of us with distinction.
▶ 0:05:47Chair Scott: On behalf of the entire committee, thank you, cameron, for your service to our country, to this committee, and to our institution. It is very challenging to find folks who serve not in a bipartisan fashion but just as an american who wants to do the right thing for the country.
▶ 0:06:10Chair Scott: You are agnostic to red and blue, left or right, and that, in my opinion, makes you an outstanding asset for the committee and a strong example of what it means to put this nation before politics. Thank you for your service. We will miss you.
▶ 0:06:31Chair Scott: [applause] we are here today to consider a strong slate of nominees put forward by president trump to serve in key leadership positions across the federal government. These roles are not ceremonial. They are not optional.
▶ 0:06:51Chair Scott: They are positions that directly impact the lives of american families, especially those that feel like washington too often forgets them. As chairman of the senate banking committee I believe deeply that our job is not just to debate policies, but to deliver results. That means confirming qualified, capable public servants who are ready to go to work and get to work on the issues that matter the most to the american people.
▶ 0:07:23Chair Scott: The nominees that we will hear from today will serve in agencies that touch on every single aspect of our economy, from housing affordability to finding illicit finance, exports, and sound supervision in our banking system. Let me take a moment to recognize the nominees before us. Mr.
▶ 0:07:46Chair Scott: Andrew hughes, nominated to be the deputy secretary of the department of housing and urban development and brings with him valuable operational experience that will help improve hud. Mr. david woll nominated to be the general counsel of the department of hud to provide the department with sound legal guidance as it works to expand opportunity for vulnerable americans.
▶ 0:08:16Chair Scott: The honorable michelle bowman, nominated to serve as vice chairman for supervision at the federal reserve and has already proven herself to have the ability and character and she has distinguished herself. She understands that financial regulators play an important role in our economy, and supervisors of banks failed to do their job every day americans pay the price. So our financial regulators must be held to very high standards.
▶ 0:08:46Chair Scott: As the vice chair of supervision, governor bowman will bring accountability and transparency to the fed and ensure that it operates as an independent institution devoid of politics. John hurley nominated for the undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes at the department of treasury is being called to lead one of our government's most important national security and intelligence arms.
▶ 0:09:14Chair Scott: From fighting money laundering and terrorist financing to levying and enforcing economic sanctions, this role is essential to protecting the integrity of our markets and holding the line foreign actors accountable. Mr. david fogel, nominated to be the assistant secretary of commerce for global markets and director general of the U.S. and foreign commercial service.
▶ 0:09:41Chair Scott: He brings a wealth of international business experience that will help american companies compete and win all across the globe. Finally, Mr. landon heid, nominated to be the assistant secretary of commerce for export administration with the background and perspective needed to ensure that the united states maintains its technological overmatched over competitors like china.
▶ 0:10:07Chair Scott: These six nominees are well-qualified, well-prepared, and ready to serve. The truth is, they are also very much needed in their positions today. The american people deserve a government that is focused on delivering solutions not simply headlines.
▶ 0:10:28Chair Scott: I look forward to hearing from each of the nominees today, and I encourage my colleagues to join me in advancing their confirmation so that they can get to work on behalf of the american people. Thank you for your willingness to serve your country, our country. Ranking member warren, you are now recognized.
▶ 0:10:47Sen. Warren: It has taken donald trump less than three months to bring the ghosts of the 2008 financial crisis back to life. The s&p 500 and dow jones are trading like meme coins. Treasury securities, the global safe haven in periods of turmoil are being sold off. Companies are already announcing layoffs.
▶ 0:11:15Sen. Warren: Consumers are anticipating brutal price hikes on everyday goods. The economy is teetering because president trump indiscriminately slapped massive tariffs on pretty much every country in the world for pretty much every product that they sell to the united states. Trump's tariffs are not strategic, not carefully designed, they won't promote jobs in industry here at home. They won't build resilient supply chains.
▶ 0:11:44Sen. Warren: They won't level the playing field for american workers against unfair trade practices. President trump's incompetence risks hard-working american families enduring higher prices, lower pay, lost jobs, and broad economic devastation. We need policymakers who will do their jobs to protect the economy and protect working families. That includes this committee.
▶ 0:12:14Sen. Warren: We have jurisdiction over key aspects of the law that president trump is using to impose tariffs. Mr. chairman, every democrat on this committee has asked you to hold a hearing on this chaos. We have a responsibility to conduct oversight and to ask hard questions.
▶ 0:12:36Sen. Warren: Republicans should also join democrats to pass a resolution to turn off these remaining tariffs and stop the power of donald trump to continue to play red light, green light with tariffs around the world. Congress has the power to contain some of the damage. Meanwhile, the trump administration seems hell-bent on maximizing additional threats to our economy.
▶ 0:13:06Sen. Warren: Consider president trump's nomination of michelle bowman to serve as the federal reserve board's vice chair of supervision making her the top watchdog, banking watchdog in the country. If she is confirmed in 2018 to be the fed's first community bank governor, but she has spent her tenure at the fed prioritizing wall street over main street.
▶ 0:13:27Sen. Warren: Governor bowman has weakened safeguards that restrict banks from gambling with people's deposits, loosened rules that prevent derivatives from blowing up big banks, she has reduced wall street loss absorbing capital requirements which help prevent bank failures in times of economic stress. She has done that by tens of billions of dollars.
▶ 0:13:55Sen. Warren: In 2019, governor bowman voted to deregulate some of the largest banks in the country, including silicon valley bank. How did that go? A few years later, svb and two other deregulated banks failed, constituting the second, third, fourth largest bank failures in american history. President trump is fanning the flames of disaster with his mismanagement of the nation's economy.
▶ 0:14:24Sen. Warren: Instead of showing up with the fire department, governor bowman brings a can of gasoline. We are also considering the nominations of two key nominees to the department of housing and urban development. Secretary turner and elon musk's doge are currently wreaking havoc at hud.
▶ 0:14:50Sen. Warren: They are indiscriminately canceling contracts and grants that keep people housed and help boost our housing supply. They are reportedly working up plans to fire half of the hud workforce. These actions will make it more difficult and more expensive for families to access housing. And that, in turn, will worsen america's housing crisis just as the trump recession bears down on us.
▶ 0:15:20Sen. Warren: Finally, we have three nominees for critical positions at treasury and commerce, including officials who will lead our trade and sanctions policies. They deserve their own hearing to answer hard questions about the way that president trump is undermining our economic and national security, including by launching the dumbest trade war in american history, doing nothing about officials who expose classified information on signal, gutting national
▶ 0:15:51Sen. Warren: Security agencies, and pushing the world economy closer to the brink of a meltdown. This committee should not just wave through these nominees who will be on the frontlines of implementing those disastrous policies. The american people deserve better. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:16:14Chair Scott: Thank you, ma'am. I will now swear in the nominees. Will you please rise and raise your right hand? Thank you. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Thank you. You may be seated. Your written statements will be made part of the record in its entirety. Please keep your oral comments to five minutes, five minutes.
▶ 0:16:49Chair Scott: Mr. hughes, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:16:50Mr. Hughes: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Chairman scott, ranking member warren, members of the committee , thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am honored by the president's confidence in nominating me to serve as deputy secretary of the U.S. department of housing and urban development and am grateful to be considered for this responsibility. I would like to begin by thanking my mentor and dear friend, Dr.
▶ 0:17:18Mr. Hughes: Ben carson, who taught me so much about humility , compassion, and leadership. I am deeply grateful to secretary scott turner whose example of leadership continues to inspire me. I wouldn't be here without the support and encouragement of my family. My mom and dad instilled in me the values of faith, hard work, and integrity.
▶ 0:17:45Mr. Hughes: My late grandmother was a constant example of perseverance and a deep love for god. She taught me that no matter how hard life gets, you never quit, you never stop serving others, and you never stop believing that tomorrow can be better. My siblings, matt, evan, haley, caroline, there are a lot of us, are my biggest cheerleaders.
▶ 0:18:18Mr. Hughes: Above all, my wife, my partner, my rock, my best friend, along with our children, hope, henry, reagan who remind me daily white this work matter so much. I also carry the memory of our daughter harper who we hold in our hearts. Her brief life left an immeasurable mark on mine and strengthen my belief that every family deserve security, dignity and hope.
▶ 0:18:44Mr. Hughes: I grew up in a working class family from texas and was the first and my family to graduate from college. My passion for people and service began decades ago with an internship in this body on capitol hill. That experience opened my eyes to how policy decisions that directly impact real people. It was then that I realized that I wanted to dedicate my career to helping others and serve our country.
▶ 0:19:12Mr. Hughes: Throughout my experience at hud, first as the white house liaison and then as to be and later the chief of staff, and in my role in leading the american cornerstone institute, that that passion for people and service has never changed. In fact, with each new opportunity and only grew stronger. Each experience taught me valuable lessons. Each conversation left an impact. Each trip was eye-opening.
▶ 0:19:42Mr. Hughes: Through the conversations, the business to places outside washington and impactful policy, I saw how government if done right can be a force for good. I believe that safe, affordable housing is not just a government program, it is a foundation for opportunity, stability, and building generational hope. My time at hud continues to show me how much of a positive impact good policies can make on american communities, so many of which have been forgotten and left behind for far too long.
▶ 0:20:12Mr. Hughes: If confirmed, I will spend each day in pursuit of hud's mission, one of service, of uplifting all-americans, and one that seeks to make home ownership within reach for rural american and tribal communities. Homeownership lies at the heart of the american dream, and I firmly believe that president trump and secretary turner's leadership, that dream will become alive and well in america once again.
▶ 0:20:38Mr. Hughes: If confirmed I will work to increase the housing supply, remove unnecessary barriers to homeownership, protect taxpayer dollars through accountability and transparency and keep the people that we serve at the heart of every decision. I will advance policies that create opportunity, foster hope, and further raider experiment in self-government that we know is the united states of america.
▶ 0:21:02Mr. Hughes: I'm guided by the belief that together we can set back on the path to self-sufficiency and independence, to live as happy, healthy, productive citizens of this country. This isn't just a job to me, it is a calling rooted in the lessons top on my family and shaped by the desire to give others the same chance at life that I was given. Lastly, I would like to thank the current and previous colleagues that I worked with at hud, great group of people who truly care about america and serving the mission of hud.
▶ 0:21:33Mr. Hughes: It is a privilege to be considered for this opportunity. Thank you. I look forward to hearing your questions.
▶ 0:21:38Chair Scott: Thank you, sir. Mr. woll.
▶ 0:21:42Mr. Woll: Thank you, senator. Thank you chairman scott, ranking member warren -- [inaudible]
▶ 0:21:59Chair Scott: Turn your microphone on.
▶ 0:22:03Mr. Woll: Sorry. [laughter] yes, sir. I would also like to thank the committee and your staff for the courtesies that you've extended to me and my family during the confirmation process. Thank you as well to my friends and family for being with me today, some physically here and some with me in spirit. I deeply appreciate your love and support.
▶ 0:22:29Mr. Woll: My middle child is an air force officer who is currently deployed to the middle east and he may be watching this hearing on his computer. We are thinking of you and look forward to your safe return. To your colleagues, we thank them for their service. This year is a reflection point for me marking the 35th anniversary of my graduation from the university of virginia's school of law.
▶ 0:22:52Mr. Woll: In those early days, like many of my law school classmates, I was recruited by and accepted a job at a large law firm where I was mentored by many fine lawyers who I deeply admire and respect today. I yearned to do something different. I wanted to make a real difference in the world. I got my first chance to do that in 1998 when I was hired as an enforcement attorney with the U.S. securities and exchange commission.
▶ 0:23:21Mr. Woll: My first investigation at the sec involved a securities boiler room that targeted elderly investors. After thousands of hours of document review and countless depositions, multiple indictments were ultimately issued to take down that den of thieves. I felt like I had made a positive difference in the lives of my fellow citizens, and I was hooked. And then, an opportunity to serve as an assistant U.S.
▶ 0:23:50Mr. Woll: Attorney in the district of columbia. Like most prosecutors in the D.C. U.S. attorney's office I began in the D.C. superior court prosecuting violent crimes. In my first three years in office I've prosecuted domestic violence and sexual assault cases, which was deeply fulfilling work. My colleagues and I prosecuted defendants who victimized some of the most vulnerable people in the community, including children and women who had been battered and trafficked.
▶ 0:24:20Mr. Woll: The work was emotionally draining and grueling, but once again, I felt like I was making a difference in helping people. Later, I went on to serve as a federal prosecutor in brooklyn where I prosecuted this and this and securities fraud cases involving victims who were financially devastated by others who took advantage of them. This included prosecuting a 100 million dollar ponzi scheme and hurricane katrina fraud case.
▶ 0:24:47Mr. Woll: After my time as a trial attorney doj I joined hud as the deputy general counsel where I continue to manage complex investigations. I believe that this extensive trial experience will help me manage both affirmative and defensive litigation at hud. I also have an experience with a wide range of matters that are typically handled by hud's office of general counsel. For example, while recently serving as the first deputy general counsel and general counsel where the U.S.
▶ 0:25:16Mr. Woll: Special inspector general, I addressed legal questions concerning ethics, personnel matters, the freedom of information act, and interagency agreements and cooperation. Also creating office policies on a wide range of issues including agency information sharing and the use of force.
▶ 0:25:43Mr. Woll: Also, legal management experience as the deputy legal counsel of hud I managed three offices within the office of general counsel and more than 100 lawyers throughout the country. I manage the highly seasoned team of attorneys and bankers. I believe that my career in government has now prepared me to head the legal office of hud. I feel particularly privileged to be considered to lead this incredibly talentednd professional team of lawyers, many of whom I've worked with before.
▶ 0:26:14Mr. Woll: From experience, I know that these attorneys genuinely care about helping those in need and providing a gold standard of legal services to the agency. If confirmed, I very much look forward to my mess -- to my next chapter hud. Thank you to the committee for consideration of my nomination.
▶ 0:26:32Chair Scott: Thank you, Mr. woll. Governor bowman, please proceed.
▶ 0:26:38Ms. Bowman: Chairman scott, ranking member warren, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I'm honored and grateful for the trust and confidence president trump placed in me by nominating me to fill the role of vice chair for supervision for the board of governors of the federal reserve system. I am also grateful to my family for their continued support. My husband and our two children are here with me today.
▶ 0:27:08Ms. Bowman: The rest of our family are watching from home in kansas. My background as a community banker as the kansas state bank commissioner and more than six years of experience as a member of the board and fomc has thoroughly prepared me to carry out the responsibilities of the vice chair for supervision. During my tenure, I have served as the oversight governor for the division of consumer and community affairs.
▶ 0:27:36Ms. Bowman: Chair of the smaller regional and community banking subcommittee. Member of the payments committee. Currently, chair of the committee on supervision and regulation. In all of my roles, I have worked to ensure the safety and soundness and fairness of the financial system, to support a strong economy.
▶ 0:27:56Ms. Bowman: If confirmed, I will prioritize reforming and refocusing supervision, restoring regulatory re-tailoring, ensuring a viable path for innovation in the banking system, and promoting transparency and accountability. First, supervision must be reformed and refocused to better address core and material financial risks.
▶ 0:28:21Ms. Bowman: We have seen significant shortcomings and supervision over the past few years that must be addressed to ensure that the U.S. banking system is safe and sound. Supervision must be grounded in applicable law and it must provide clear standards to regulated institutions. Supervisory expectations should not surprise regulated firms.
▶ 0:28:45Ms. Bowman: Supervision cannot eliminate the risk from the banking system, but it can and should promote sensible risk management that enables the banking system to support economic growth and serve the financial needs of all americans. Should a bank fail, supervision should minimize and mitigate any harm to consumers, businesses, and the financial system.
▶ 0:29:11Ms. Bowman: Second, regulations must be approached in a pragmatic way that ensures that they are efficient and effective. This pragmatic approach requires identification -- identifying the problem targeted by the regulation, considering the cost and benefits of any proposed change, as well as incentive effects, impacts on markets, and the potential unintended consequences.
▶ 0:29:36Ms. Bowman: We must prioritize the identification and remediation of issues that may pose long-term structural problems to the banking system and the critical markets that it supports. Including, addressing regulatory disincentives to treasury market remediation activities by banks and their affiliates.
▶ 0:29:56Ms. Bowman: As I work towards improvements in bank regulation with counterparts at the other agencies, I will continue to rely on a tailored approach, especially for community and regional banks. Tailoring is a fundamental -- is fundamental to ensuring that we maintain and enhance the diversity of the U.S. banking system, which must include and support banks of all sizes. The U.S.
▶ 0:30:23Ms. Bowman: Regulatory framework has grown expansively to become overly complicated and redundant with conflicting and overlapping requirements. This growth has imposed unnecessary and significant costs on banks and their customers. Third, regulators must promote innovation in the banking system . To remain viable and competitive, banks must be able to consider new technologies that can improve products and services and lower costs.
▶ 0:30:55Ms. Bowman: Regulator should adopt an approach that encourages and promotes sensible innovation. Finally, to promote accountability, regulators must be transparent. Both in supervision and regulation. Successful policymaking requires openness and humility, caution and a deliberate approach.
▶ 0:31:19Ms. Bowman: I can assure the committee that if I'm confirmed as the vice chair for supervision, I will be strongly committed to these values. As I have demonstrated throughout my career, I am committed to carrying out my responsibilities by objectively making decisions based on the best available information and input from community and business leaders, industry, consumer groups, academics, and americans from across the country. Thank you. I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:31:48Chair Scott: Thank you, ma'am. Mr. hurley, you are recognized.
▶ 0:31:52Mr. Hurley: Thank you, chairman scott. Is the microphone on? Thank you, chairman scott, ranking member warren, members of the committee. It is a great honor to appear before you as the president's nominee to lead the office of tourism and financial management and I want to thank president trump, vice president vance, and secretary scott bessent for their confidence in me.
▶ 0:32:21Mr. Hurley: Many of you I have known personally and admired for many years and others that had the opportunity to meet over the last few weeks and I thank all of you for your questions and thoughts. I look forward to working with all of you if I'm honored to be confirmed. I want t say how grateful and humble diane for the support of receipt for my family and friends. -- and humbled I am for the support I have received from my family and friends. My three sons wanted to be here today.
▶ 0:32:51Mr. Hurley: Also not with us but in our thoughts is my late wife camilla and her family, my late father, my 95-year-old mother, and my three brothers and sister. Kindly standing in for them are several close friends here from san francisco.
▶ 0:33:08Mr. Hurley: As the son and nephew of career air force officers, the brother and father of two army officers, and a former army officer myself, I come from a family long dedicated to the national security of the united states. During president trump's first term I was on the security advisory board and I'm grateful and excited at the prospect of serving our nation again. I'm honored to be nominated for this crucial position at the intersection of national policy, foreign policy, and financial system.
▶ 0:33:38Mr. Hurley: Tfi brings together a broad and diverse expertise, identifying, disrupting the financial networks that support terrorist groups, organized crime, weapons proliferators, and donations that threaten our security. When my father retired from the air force after 30 years he became the chancellor and president of the university of north texas which he led for another fulfilling 20 years.
▶ 0:34:04Mr. Hurley: I remember thinking at the time how well his prior life experiences prepared him for that challenge. I feel similarly about this role and my background. My academic studies at princeton and stanford, my service in the military, on the president's intelligence survives reboard, and wards focused on national security, and in the last 30 years building and leading an investment team would serve me well confronting adversaries who are not only dangerous and ruthless but often sophisticated.
▶ 0:34:35Mr. Hurley: If confirmed, I hope for maximum and strategic effect to meet the objectives set by the president and secretary and to protect our citizens from those who would do us harm. I look forward to leading the talented and educated tf I officials and working with you, Mr. chairman this committee, and staff and interagency partners. Think you very much.
▶ 0:35:03Mr. Fogel: Is that on?
▶ 0:35:05Chair Scott: Yes.
▶ 0:35:06Mr. Fogel: Chairman scott, ranking member warren, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. I'm nominated by president trump to be assistant secretary of commerce for global markets and a director general of the U.S. foreign commercial service. I want to thank secretary lutnick for his support of my nomination and I want to thank the committee for the opportunity to meet with many of you and members of your staff leading up to this hearing.
▶ 0:35:38Mr. Fogel: I would also like to take a moment to acknowledge my family members who are here with me today. My wife, my three daughters, lucy, lily, caroline. Senators, I was born and raised in rochester, new york. My father was the first and his family to go to college and later became a business executive. My mother took care of my home and raised me and my siblings. Tragically, in my mid-20's she went in for a minor medical procedure and never came home.
▶ 0:36:07Mr. Fogel: From a young age, my father instilled in me a strong sense of public service. While I was just in middle school, I sat with him every sunday morning watching political interview shows. His encouragement led me to attend the georgetown school of foreign service. I stayed at georgetown for four more years to earn my jd and mba degrees. In school, a intern for all three branches of the federal government.
▶ 0:36:37Mr. Fogel: In the white house, on the hill for two U.S. senators, and for a federal judge. As well as for former u.n. Ambassador kirkpatrick. My professional career began at sullivan and cromwell in new york city as a corporate attorney focused on domestic and international transactions. From there, went on to build three companies and three innovative sectors throughout my career. Continuing to negotiate cross-border transactions.
▶ 0:37:07Mr. Fogel: I had the privilege of serving in president trump's first administration, initially the chief of staff at the export/import inc. Where I oversaw a team of professionals who executed billions of dollars of transactions for small, medium, large U.S. companies. I also helped establish the bank's new financing program to help compete with china, which had just been wisely mandated by the U.S. congress.
▶ 0:37:37Mr. Fogel: Subsequently, I moved over to the state department, where I served as the senior and chief business development officer under the under secretary for economic growth. There, I continued my work helping U.S. companies compete with china and win deals abroad. I believe that all of this experience, private and public, prepared me well for the responsibilities that I would take on within global markets in the event that I'm confirmed.
▶ 0:38:08Mr. Fogel: The global markets team works with foreign governments to ensure fair access for U.S. companies, promotes the export of goods and services for U.S. companies of all sizes, and facilitates foreign direct investment into the united states. All of these are key priorities for president trump and support the administration's goals of strengthening the american economy thomas supporting and creating american jobs, and boosting our economic and national security.
▶ 0:38:39Mr. Fogel: If confirmed, I will work closely with members of the committee and with congress as a whole to ensure that global markets is as effective and successful as possible. Thank you again for your consideration of my nomination, and I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:38:57Chair Scott: Thank you very much, Mr. fogel.
▶ 0:38:58Mr. Heid: Chairman scott, ranking member warren, distinguished senators, thank you for the opportunity. I'm honored to be president trump's nominee for assistant secretary for export administration at the bureau of industry and security. If confirmed, I pledge to carry out these critical responsibilities with dedication, integrity, and urgency. I would like to take a moment to acknowledge my family here with me today. My father, my mother, my uncle.
▶ 0:39:27Mr. Heid: Without their support, this moment wouldn't be possible. Throughout my career I had the privilege of serving in government throughout multiple roles from a diplomat at the U.S. embassy in beijing to a professional staffer in congress. In all of these positions I've been focused on addressing the threat posed by the chinese communist party, particularly its ambitions to acquire sensitive U.S. technology for malign purposes.
▶ 0:39:52Mr. Heid: Recently, I was a professional staffer on the committee for strategic competition between the united states and chinese communist party. We worked in a bipartisan fashion to raise awareness of the ccp's efforts to get their hands on U.S. intellectual property. Before that, I spent five years as a U.S. diplomat including at the U.S. embassy beijing during the first year of the covid-19 pandemic.
▶ 0:40:17Mr. Heid: There I experienced firsthand the dystopian future that the ccp has in store for the world if their impulses are kept in check. Xi jinping has called on china to occupy the commanding heights of science and technology competition and has implemented strategies such as dual circulation to accomplish the school. China's pursuit of emerging technologies like ai, quantum computing, biotechnology, advanced semiconductors represent a threat to U.S.
▶ 0:40:48Mr. Heid: Economic and national security. Whichever nation achieves dominance in these technologies will shape the future world economic and technological order. No agency or office is arguably more central to winning the technology competition with china than the commerce department's bureau of security. They have the ability to restrict the transfer of our most advanced technologies to adversaries like china and the foreign companies that do the ccp's bidding.
▶ 0:41:17Mr. Heid: I want to stress the long-standing bipartisan nature of export controls as a critical tool of national security. In his first term, president trump impose sweeping export controls on huawei. Following president trump's actions come the last administration imposed similar controls on advanced semiconductor technology going to china, but there is more work to be done. President trump has taken decisive action early on to address this threat.
▶ 0:41:46Mr. Heid: On day one of the new administration president trump announced his america first trade policy calling for a closing of loopholes in our expert control regime to prevent our strategic adversaries from getting access to sensitive technologies. President trump followed this with his america first investment policy that called out ccp affiliated entities for targeting the crown jewels of U.S. technologies, farmland, minerals, and sensitive sectors.
▶ 0:42:12Mr. Heid: I want to acknowledge the importance of working with partners and allies on this objective. The U.S. alone doesn't possess all of the worlds most advanced technologies and we need to work with other countries to ensure that china is fully denied critical goods necessary to its technology ambitions. If confirmed, I look forward to working with congress to rigorously carry out these policies, enforce expert control measures, and ensure that our sensitive technologies don't bolster china's strategic capabilities.
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Heid: I'm fully committed to protecting our national security, promoting transparency, and ensuring accountability in our efforts. I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:42:49Chair Scott: We will start the questions with senator moreno.
▶ 0:42:54Sen. Moreno: Thank you. Let me say thank you. Thank you for being willing to serve your country. We get to see some incredibly qualified candidates and I think that you set a new bar. Thank you for being here and wanting to serve. Let's talk about where we are in the economy. It has been 81 days since president trump took office.
▶ 0:43:19Sen. Moreno: Let's compare his report card over three months compared to where we were at the beginning of the biden administration. The ranking member talked about an apocalypse in the economy. So, under biden, thanks to congress and biden's actions we had generationally high inflation and wages were not close to keeping up with the price of goods, basics, food, energy, transportation, and housing became unaffordable.
▶ 0:43:49Sen. Moreno: What has happened in the last 81 days? We have a new inflation report. Inflation is at an all-time low compared to the last five years. Energy prices are down 30%. Egg prices are down 50%. Private sector employment is surging. We have a completely secure border. When I think about what is happening in the housing world, what does it mean to have 10 million people not coming into our country illegally and the impact on housing?
▶ 0:44:21Sen. Moreno: We have gone from borr crossings of 350,000 per day to less than 5000 month -- 350,000 a month. We have peace around the world, we don't have a war in the middle east, we are going to get a war resolved in eastern europe. We are standing up to china. D.e.I. Has been dismantled.
▶ 0:44:46Sen. Moreno: Happily, we are not giving harvard $9 billion in federal funding to enrich their endowment which stands at $50 billion or $60 billion. They own most of cambridge. If you are a boston schoolteacher you cannot live in cambridge because your property taxes have to pay for services for the town. We have tax reform coming and our regulations have been slashed.
▶ 0:45:13Sen. Moreno: I just wanted to set the record straight of where we are, pretty good in 81 days compared to four years of abject disaster. Mr. hughes, what do you see going forward in terms of housing, not having to take care of millions of illegal migrants? What does that mean to people who are americans who need help with housing?
▶ 0:45:35Mr. Hughes: Thank you, senator. It is good to see you again and I appreciate the question. With the president shutting down the border, the influx of 10 million people into the united states, one, that will help us rebound in the housing supply crisis. He has secretary turner to bring down housing prices and cut unnecessary regulations.
▶ 0:46:04Mr. Hughes: One of the first things that secretary turner did when he got the hud was start a regulatory reform task force, which has been working hard with the program offices and other agencies to identify not only federal but state and local regulations that we can eliminate to help with the housing supply issue.
▶ 0:46:25Mr. Hughes: In addition, secretary turner and secretary burnham signed -- for federal lands, we are excited about that opportunity. Teams are starting to meet. A lot of good things are underway, senator.
▶ 0:46:44Sen. Moreno: Governor bowman, I have some conflicting information at the beginning of the hearing. Where are you from?
▶ 0:46:52Ms. Bowman: Kansas.
▶ 0:46:54Sen. Moreno: You are not from wall street. Have you lived in new york city? Has your family lived in new york city?
▶ 0:47:01Ms. Bowman: No.
▶ 0:47:02Sen. Moreno: To say that someone in kansas understands the plight of main street, that is the heartland, like ohio. You understand what crippling banking regulations -- explain what that means to a small business. Nothing against jpmorgan chase or bank of america, have they had a tough four years? Have they been suffering?
▶ 0:47:24Ms. Bowman: I would say having been a community banker and compliance officer in my family's bank started in --
▶ 0:47:33Sen. Moreno: A multitrillion dollar bank?
▶ 0:47:36Ms. Bowman: No, million with an m. Just implementing regulations when I was a banker we implemented the dodd frank regulations. It is very complex and difficult to understand and help your staff understand the expectations for implementation.
▶ 0:47:54Sen. Moreno: My time is up, but I'm so excited to have you in that job. I think that wall street has had plenty of representation in this body, and it's good to see someone who represents mainstreet and understands what the heartland, the working people of this country, go through and need from banking. Thank you.
▶ 0:48:13Chair Scott: Making member warning.
▶ 0:48:15Sen. Warren: Anyone who has been awake for the last week has seen the self-inflicted economic maelstrom that both the united states and the world have lived through. The trump administration is living in a fantasy land, and evidently not living there alone.
▶ 0:48:34Sen. Warren: According to team trump the economy is booming, tariff money is rolling in, massive tax cuts for billionaires will be free, and research scientists that doge fired from the national institute of health and customer service specialists they fired from the social security administration are happily screwing in a tiny iphone as they work in iphone factories that have magically sprung up across the country.
▶ 0:49:04Sen. Warren: The trump administration is in desperate need of financial regulators who live in the real world. If confirmed you would be the number one financial cop on the beat during an incredibly dangerous time. As we've learned from previous crisis, the tremors in the financial system can lead to avalanches and the rest of the economy and vice versa. You would be the person on the front line of defense to prevent that from happening.
▶ 0:49:36Sen. Warren: Chair powell said that president trump's tariffs will lead to, I quote, both higher unemployment and higher inflation. We have seen wild swings in the financial market over the past week, at least some of us. Governor bowman, how do you see the risks of the current moment?
▶ 0:49:59Sen. Warren: In what ways could president trump's tariffs and their economic effects threaten the stability of our financial system?
▶ 0:50:07Ms. Bowman: Senator, that is a great question. I would like to start by saying that the economy is strong.
▶ 0:50:14Sen. Warren: Fine, but answer my question, please. We will be limited on time. We have a tough chairman.
▶ 0:50:22Ms. Bowman: Economic growth has been solid although it may be slowing and inflation came down today, as we saw with the recent cpi report.
▶ 0:50:31Sen. Warren: Could you answer my question, please? In what ways president trump's tariffs and their economic effects threaten the stability of our financial system. Chair powell already identified higher inflation and higher unemployment. I would like to hear from you what ways you think trump's tariffs potentially threaten our financial system.
▶ 0:50:57Ms. Bowman: The mandated goals mandated by congress for the federal reserve are maximum employment and price stability. As the path for these policies --
▶ 0:51:06Sen. Warren: Can you use the word tariff? I have asked the question twice. In what ways do president trump's tariffs threaten the financial system? Jay powell answered this question. You are at the fed. Can you give me a straight answer?
▶ 0:51:24Ms. Bowman: As we are waiting to see how the path of these policies continues to evolve, we will understand what the economic effects --
▶ 0:51:32Sen. Warren: You are saying you don't know if the tariffs can have any effect on the financial system?
▶ 0:51:38Ms. Bowman: It is unclear since we don't know how the economic policies will -- what their effects on the industries will be.
▶ 0:51:46Sen. Warren: President trump's tariffs threaten to strangle the economy according to the fed chair and the stock market is experiencing the kinds of swings that we don't see outside of financial crises. Even treasury securities, that are supposed to be resilient, people flight to safety, -- fly to safety, have started to experience volatility, and you don't see any risks to the financial system? You got nothing for me here?
▶ 0:52:17Ms. Bowman: I would tell you we are starting on a strong economic foundation --
▶ 0:52:22Sen. Warren: What I am hearing is nothing. The worst scenario that we have here is that this trump-inflicted economic crisis undermines confidence in our financial system. Banks and other lenders may face huge losses as households and businesses struggle to meet their debt payments if we plunge into a recession.
▶ 0:52:45Sen. Warren: Hedge funds and other leveraged financial firms are already facing margin calls and may be forced to dump assets, including treasuries, at fire sale prices. Financial instability would amplify the harms of these irrational tariffs. You want to sit here and say that it is all good? Let me ask you, governor bowman.
▶ 0:53:13Sen. Warren: Will you immediately conduct a stress test of the big banks to probe if they can endure a deep and prolonged recession triggered by a massive trade shock? Just run the test. Are you willing to do that?
▶ 0:53:25Ms. Bowman: We have a process for stress testing that has already been underway this year and will continue to move forward as we planned.
▶ 0:53:34Sen. Warren: Are you saying that you will not run a stress test immediately? Is that exactly right? All of the things that happened in the last week and last two months, you will cover your eyes and ears and say, I'm sure the banks will be fine. We will check them out in several months?
▶ 0:53:54Ms. Bowman: We are always watching --
▶ 0:53:56Sen. Warren: Always watching but not conducting a stress test. I apologize for going over.
▶ 0:54:05Chair Scott: Senator kennedy.
▶ 0:54:07Sen. Kennedy: Thank you, Mr. chairman. You are a fine american. You still have to pay your taxes, though.
▶ 0:54:16Chair Scott: On may 1.
▶ 0:54:19Sen. Kennedy: I have an extension on mine.
▶ 0:54:23Chair Scott: I will extend 30 seconds.
▶ 0:54:26Sen. Kennedy: Briefly, if you will, because we have to vote, what is the basel iii endgame?
▶ 0:54:35Ms. Bowman: An international agreement from countries that participate in the basel accords.
▶ 0:54:42Sen. Moreno: What is the objective?
▶ 0:54:44Ms. Bowman: To ensure parity across jurisdictions for financial regulations and a level playing field.
▶ 0:54:51Sen. Kennedy: More regulations of american banks?
▶ 0:54:55Ms. Bowman: In some cases, yes.
▶ 0:54:57Sen. Kennedy: Your predecessor, Mr. barr, loved basel iii endgame like the devil loved sin.
▶ 0:55:09Ms. Bowman: He embraced it in his proposal.
▶ 0:55:13Sen. Kennedy: He bear hugged it. He french kissed it. What problem are we trying to solve with basel iii endgame? Mr. barr's proposal. What problem are we trying to solve? We have stress tests now for banks, right? We have capital standards, right? What is broken about it?
▶ 0:55:41Ms. Bowman: I think that we will need to take a fresh look at the last basel agreement and determine what is appropriate for U.S. banks and the ability to have a level playing field across the world.
▶ 0:55:54Sen. Kennedy: Let me put it another way. Washington has a propensity that when something isn't broken, take it apart and loosen a few screws so that it will be. Now, if there is some problem that we are trying to solve with adopting these international standards, I would like to know it. I asked that repeatedly of Mr. barr.
▶ 0:56:25Sen. Kennedy: He never could -- he was/is -- I like him very much come he is very smart but also a silver-tongued devil. He could talk a dog off of a meat wagon and he never answered that question. Tell us, what is broken. Let me ask -- Mr. fogel.
▶ 0:56:58Sen. Kennedy: What is the international monetary fund, briefly if you don't mind.
▶ 0:57:05Mr. Fogel: Senator, to be honest I know what it is, but it isn't related to the job that I have been nominated for, global markets at commerce. It is probably better handled by the treasury department.
▶ 0:57:23Sen. Kennedy: That's fair. I understand a dodge when I see it. You did that pretty artfully. How about you, Mr. hurley? I bet you know.
▶ 0:57:41Mr. Hurley: I do know what the imf is. It would be my colleague --
▶ 0:57:48Sen. Kennedy: I am hoping that you are not telling me that you don't know what the imf is if you are going to be in charge of terrorism and financial crimes.
▶ 0:57:58Mr. Hurley: Yes, sir. The imf, we won't have sanctions --
▶ 0:58:04Sen. Kennedy: The imf loans money to other countries, right? Who puts up most of the money for the imf?
▶ 0:58:11Mr. Hurley: The united states, sir.
▶ 0:58:14Sen. Kennedy: There are about 190 countries and we put up the most. What are the special drawing rights?
▶ 0:58:21Mr. Hurley: I'm not terribly familiar.
▶ 0:58:23Sen. Kennedy: You need to get familiar. Special drawing rights is when the imf gets together and decides to declare a dividend to all of the countries, and it is like a dividend but is really a sheet of paper that says any country can take these dividends, a sheet of paper, and redeem it for the currency of any other country. Secretary yellen did that to the tune of $650 billion.
▶ 0:58:58Sen. Kennedy: She dodged congressional approval coming for an amount just below the trigger for us to approve it. We gave money to iran, to russia, to china, and we are putting up the money. Why are we doing that?
▶ 0:59:25Mr. Hurley: Are you asking me?
▶ 0:59:27Sen. Kennedy: Yes, sir.
▶ 0:59:29Mr. Hurley: I completely agree --
▶ 0:59:32Sen. Kennedy: I have a bill to say that whenever the treasury catches a wild hair and decides that they want to give away american taxpayer money to iran, as treasurer yellen did, she has to come to congress for approval. You will support that?
▶ 0:59:49Mr. Hurley: I look forward to looking for the legislation, sir. >> I am in charge. >> that explains a lot. >> you remember the last guy who said that? Al haig. Does the panel remember al haig?
▶ 1:00:19Mr. Hurley: Governor bowman, it is great to see you again. I appreciated our conversation that we had earlier in the week. I want to drill down on a couple of things that we talked about. First and foremost, the importance of maintaining the independence of the fed.
▶ 1:00:36Mr. Hurley: You know, clearly when we have seen the level of erratic decision-making coming out of the administration over the past couple weeks on tariffs, the notion that there is some reasonable group of adults in the room that would be a backstop I think has to be the fed, and I think monetary policy would be in your guys' purview and not based on political pressure. Can you commit to me that you will stand up for the independence of the fed?
▶ 1:01:07Mr. Hurley: Even if that means going against omb?
▶ 1:01:11Ms. Bowman: Absolutely, senator warner. It is important we maintain independence with respect to monetary policy and responsibilities we have related to the economy.
▶ 1:01:24Sen. Warner: If the omb suddenly tried to put a requirement in place that said that the fed has to check on all of their rulemaking process with the white house before you make your rulemaking would be part of the independence of the fed in my mind, and I hope you would say that would be inappropriate?
▶ 1:01:45Ms. Bowman: We haven't seen that happen at this point --
▶ 1:01:48Sen. Warner: Go ahead.
▶ 1:01:50Ms. Bowman: I appreciate that concern and agree with the principles of cost-benefit analysis and ensuring that we identified a problem that needs to be solved and provide an analysis that supports rulemakings we put forward. I wouldn't think that we would have challenges with any rulemakings that we might like to engage in.
▶ 1:02:13Sen. Warner: I think that we are in uncharted territory.
▶ 1:02:20Sen. Warner: We are in uncharted territory. It is a different time and different administration and that independence at the fed has to be maintained. My friend from north carolina believes that as well. One of the other things I wanted to touch on was the better usage of the discount window.
▶ 1:02:47Sen. Warner: Before we start adding other regulations making sure that the tools are fully used and to understand the stigma that comes by using the discount window but having either occasional use and demonstration that you have the ability to use those tools.
▶ 1:03:06Sen. Warner: You had some good ideas about making sure that the collateral that might be at the federal homeland banks might be able to be easily moved back and forth to the fed. Talk more about the usage of the discount window.
▶ 1:03:24Ms. Bowman: The discount window is a very important tool for the banking system and the fed. It is critically important that it operates appropriately and efficiently. That's one of the things we engaged in over the last year or so, to work with our reserve banks to ensure we have a process where usage of the disk -- discount window is speedy and is used in a way that can be of assistance in a timely way.
▶ 1:03:54Ms. Bowman: I appreciate that you are referring to our conversation about the collateral. The fhlb provides liquidity to the banking system and a few others as well.
▶ 1:04:10Ms. Bowman: It is very important since most every bank in this country uses that system for liquidity on a daily basis in some cases but there is a process that is effective and efficient to be able to transfer that collateral if there is a need to use the discount window.
▶ 1:04:29Sen. Warner: I may want to push you more on a mandatory occasional use. Svb is in violate -- violation of banking rules but they were totally unprepared to use that tool. One last question. Mr.
▶ 1:04:51Sen. Warner: Heid, the last administration took some important steps trying to limit spyware and that has been used on surveillance of american diplomats. You can insert malware without having control of the device.
▶ 1:05:14Sen. Warner: I you concerned about this because we have senior administration officials making classified information on signal chats. We don't even acknowledge where they have taken those phones back and make sure that malware was not inserted because we know child -- china is actively working to penetrate signal and other encrypted apps.
▶ 1:05:40Sen. Warner: If confirmed, how do we make sure that we make sure that we keep those restrictions in place?
▶ 1:05:53Mr. Heid: Thank you for the question. I appreciate your leadership on this topic. I will shortly say the department of commerce has authority called ict that allowss it to restrict for an adversary technology products to reduce security risks. President trump and his america first trade policy called for review and strengthening of that authority to start using that authority more.
▶ 1:06:25Mr. Heid: The last administration started off right. A lot of devices are still in the economy that pose these risks. I look forward to working with you on that.
▶ 1:06:34Sen. Warner: Thank you. >> my turn. Congratulations to all of you on your confirmation. I only have time to ask governor bowman a question. I believe the senator from massachusetts attacked you for not immediately initiating fed stress tests following the announcement of present -- president trump's tariff strategy. I want a clarification.
▶ 1:07:01Sen. Warner: Did your predecessor vice chair bar launch a fed stress test it?
▶ 1:07:07Ms. Bowman: He did not. >> did he launch a stress test when inflation reached 40 year highs?
▶ 1:07:13Ms. Bowman: No. >> even if the fed regularly did this, wouldn't it be that vice chair that senator warren should have directed the question toward?
▶ 1:07:25Ms. Bowman: That might be more appropriate, yes. >> thank you. We have community banks, regional banks, large foreign banks and 23 hundred plus bank examiners crawling around their organizations every day. I want to talk about trends. Are you aware of instances when fed supervision failed to focus on blaring risks?
▶ 1:07:53Ms. Bowman: Yes. >> give me an example?
▶ 1:07:57Ms. Bowman: Silicon valley bank.
▶ 1:08:00Sen. Tillis: Are you aware of distractions from assessing corporate risks?
▶ 1:08:04Ms. Bowman: Yes. We have seen reports of that throughout our supervision and regulation reports published last year.
▶ 1:08:11Sen. Tillis: Are you aware of instances when examiners changed expectations even within the course of an ongoing investigation?
▶ 1:08:18Ms. Bowman: I have heard of this.
▶ 1:08:21Sen. Tillis: I would like for the record if we can point out some blaring examples, that would be helpful. Do you believe the fed has always had -- adequately considered the differences between the advisory strata when crafting requirements?
▶ 1:08:39Ms. Bowman: I think over the last year, few years, we have strayed from the statutory response ability of regulatory tailoring. What I would like to refocus our activities on is instilling more usage of regulatory tailoring that is appropriate to the size, the risk of other business model and the institution that we are looking to apply regulation to.
▶ 1:09:03Sen. Tillis: Do you believe the fed training of examiners is always arm staff to adequately carry out corporate risks supervisory duties?
▶ 1:09:13Ms. Bowman: I look forward if confirmed, to having a better understanding of how our examiners are to ensure that we can identify the risks in the system.
▶ 1:09:23Sen. Tillis: Is it fair to say that some of the problems encountered with the examination of silicon valley bank may have related to improper training and execution?
▶ 1:09:31Ms. Bowman: I think that is a possibility but I would like to do an independent review that would help us identify some of the issues that we should be identifying.
▶ 1:09:41Sen. Tillis: That is a perfect answer. Looking back only to be instructed on how to better perform in the future. That is exactly how we should do it. There are a lot of examiners doing a good job, following the rules. There are others who either need training or reeducation. To the examiners out there, many of them do a good job. . I speak with a lot of banks. I did when I was advising banks in the private sector.
▶ 1:10:11Sen. Tillis: We have gotten off the game and some of that comes through training and more consistent examination processes. On part of senator kennedy's comments, I think people need to understand that to the extent we are looking at boswell is to give some uncertainty as to what we will do.
▶ 1:10:32Sen. Tillis: I was completely offended and totally thrilled when barr failed to get basel 3 endgame done. That was a happy day. We do need to look at it. We need to give certainty to the banks and regulated entities. That is just basel.
▶ 1:10:59Sen. Tillis: I think ccar and stress testing are broken. Unless you were a partner at price waterhouse we were paid enormous sums of money to make sure that banks were compliant with regulations that were at the risk of money they can spend in their communities for capital. They were having to pay consultants to be compliant.
▶ 1:11:24Sen. Tillis: There has to be a better way to identify the specific risk without going through 100,000 pages. Ccar and stress tests is broken. Moving forward will you see opportunities to reduce the cost and maintain the outcomes that we need to understand any systemic risk in the banking system?
▶ 1:11:44Ms. Bowman: Yes. Let me address the stress testing observations you made. I agree on many levels with the observations you have. We are taking a closer look at the appropriateness of the way the stress tests have been implemented and we will be making conclusions going forward. I look forward to improving that process.
▶ 1:12:06Sen. Tillis: Thank you. I look forward to supporting your confirmation. On behalf of the chair and senator cortez masto. >> congratulations to all of you on your nominations. Mr. woll, you served hud in the previous administration?
▶ 1:12:25Mr. Woll: Yes. >> missing a legally required deadline to do so and according to the inspector general you repeatedly mishandled congressional appropriations. Those funds were supposed to aid puerto ricans responding to the devastation of hurricane marie 2017. You refused to answer questions about the delays.
▶ 1:12:51Mr. Woll: With that and knowing the report is out there, why should I trust you to be general counsel for hud?
▶ 1:12:56Mr. Woll: I would like to clarify. I don't think the ig found that I refused to provide information. I made myself available for two interviews with the inspector general. One lasted one hour and a half to two hours. The second one at an equal amount of time. I also went to thud and to testify and I answered every question.
▶ 1:13:26Mr. Woll: I always assisted the investigation. Puerto rico received $20 billion in funds. To put it in comparison, the initial allocation >> Sen. cortez masto: according to the inspector general's report, you mishandled the congressional appropriations. Those funds were supposed to help puerto ricans and it did not get to them with the required deadline. Is that correct?
▶ 1:13:53Mr. Woll: The concern was that there was a lot of toe mold in puerto rico at the time. They had three governors in three weeks. They had $2 billion available to them in their line of credit. At the time of this issue they had already spent five hundred thousand dollars.
▶ 1:14:14Sen. Cortez Masto: Did you have the authority to make that decision?
▶ 1:14:17Mr. Woll: We were just serving as a good steward's of money and making sure that the money that was allocated to puerto rico --
▶ 1:14:25Sen. Cortez Masto: That is not what the report said. It said you violated congressional requirements in making sure the money got to puerto rico. That is my concern. You will be general counsel and you are disregarding already congressional intent and what congress has voted on to send money to puerto rico.
▶ 1:14:44Mr. Woll: I can assure you and the committee that as general counsel I will always follow the law and the constitution and I will advise everybody at hud to follow the law and the constitution.
▶ 1:14:57Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. I only have so much time. Mr. hughes, affordable housing matters to nevadans and hud is a valuable resource in my state. Our office staff for hud was tiny, only four people. Yet hud has not filled one of those openings and actually let go one of the staffers. They let go of the person who handles the sale of federal land for housing in my state.
▶ 1:15:29Sen. Cortez Masto: My question to you Mr. hughes's who will manage federal land sales for housing and how do you attend to address this -- intend to address this?
▶ 1:15:40Mr. Hughes: Thank you for the question. Secretary turner with regard to field offices has been taking inventory of all of our field offices around the country. With regard to any type of permanent cuts, those are not definitive. He is still in conversations with the team and takes it serious because he wants to execute the mission well.
▶ 1:16:07Sen. Cortez Masto: This administration wants to move forward with federal land sales. How will you do that?
▶ 1:16:12Mr. Hughes: The secretary just signed an mou with sec. Burgum. We have been putting a team together to look at how that will work out. We recently had a meeting on it and we look forward to working with you.
▶ 1:16:30Sen. Cortez Masto: Are there any specifics?
▶ 1:16:33Mr. Hughes: I know they have identified some land.
▶ 1:16:38Sen. Cortez Masto: Will that be made public anytime soon?
▶ 1:16:41Mr. Hughes: I can get back to you. I hear your remarks in the last hearing on housing affordability and that is important to you and I will work with you on that issue.
▶ 1:16:51Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. Mr. fogel you will be charged with overseeing over 170 commercial offices with the mission of promoting U.S. exports. I'm assuming you know this. America's top services export his travel and tourism. It is a billion dollar industry in this country and my state.
▶ 1:17:17Sen. Cortez Masto: I am concerned right now with these tariffs the negative impact it is having on travel and tourism in this country. As assistant secretary for global markets, what would you do to promote U.S. exports of travel and tourism and help us avoid the catastrophic economic impact we are seeing right now because of the president's tariffs?
▶ 1:17:42Mr. Fogel: Thank you for the question. I have heard your comments about this. I understand your concern. I would be happy to work with you on this issue and learn more about it. I will say that president trump's policy with respect to economic growth, de-regulation is likely to lead to more opportunities for foreign investment into the united states. We have already seen a number of announcements --
▶ 1:18:11Sen. Cortez Masto: How does that help tourism travel?
▶ 1:18:14Mr. Fogel: Some of that investment will make its way to nevada and lead to more opportunities for businesses to thrive, jobs to be created. Also as the economy performs better, that's more likely to lead to --
▶ 1:18:33Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you Mr. chair. I intend to. >> 15 seconds.
▶ 1:18:40Sen. Cortez Masto: You are cutting into my time. >> you already out of time.
▶ 1:18:44Sen. Cortez Masto: I look forward to talking with you on the subject.
▶ 1:18:57Sen. Thubanks: I'm controlled that the china-controlled company deepseek answered -- accessed data despite controls aimed at limiting china's control and access to cutting-edge technology. How did deepseek bypass U.S. export controls using supposed allies like malaysia and singapore?
▶ 1:19:19Mr. Heid: Thank you for the question. Congratulations on your new gig. Happy to have someone like yourself focus on china in this body. As a general matter there is no more sophisticated actor on the planet than the ccp when it comes to overt and covid access to technology. It is known practice to get their hands on U.S. technology that would be otherwise denied.
▶ 1:19:48Mr. Heid: I cannot speak specifically to this incident that you referenced on malaysia and the chips. This will be a continuous battle every day and we will keep our eye on the prize on this because china is a sophisticated actor. >> can you layout a plan of what you can do to prevent that from happening again?
▶ 1:20:07Mr. Heid: One that would be easy to accomplish is right now are export control laws, the restrictions do not match, do not cover subsidiaries. If you put an entity on the list and it has a subsidiary, the restriction that you put on the entity list does not apply to its own subsidiary. We saw this in sanctions going back decades. It is called a 50 plus one rule where if you are a subsidiary, you get whacked.
▶ 1:20:37Mr. Heid: We don't have that for export controls. All you have to do is put it on the list and I am allowed to import it. These are the kinds of things we will be talking about and moving very quickly.
▶ 1:20:47Sen. Banks: I want to work with you on tha Mr. hughes in 2016 the obama administration declared it is unlawful discrimination for realtors and landlords to discuss a neighborhood crime rate with prospective renters or buyers. It seems ridiculous that we would try to hide that from someone trying to buy a home or apartment. What do you and secretary turner plan to do with the ruling?
▶ 1:21:13Mr. Hughes: What was the rule?
▶ 1:21:17Sen. Banks: The ruling determined that it is unlawful discrimination to discuss a neighborhood crime rate.
▶ 1:21:26Mr. Hughes: I can tell you that secretary turner and myself now in my current capacity and if confirmed, we will do everything we can to enforce fair housing laws through everything we can do at hud.
▶ 1:21:45Sen. Banks: Secretary turner agreed that is outrageous. I assume that your reaction, you would agree that it is ridiculous, we should change it.
▶ 1:21:58Mr. Hughes: Absolutely.
▶ 1:22:00Sen. Banks: Very good. Mr. hurley the people's republic of china has built too many companies using stolen american technology. Communist china exploits america's cutting-edge research to apply -- acquire critical technology that makes china stronger and the united states weaker. Bad actors find ways to avoid sanctions and launder funds. How will you impose stricter sanctions on companies with connections to china's military?
▶ 1:22:30Mr. Hurley: Thank you very much. I enjoyed our conversation about this topic this past week. I share landon's sense of urgency on the threat we are facing in terms of a broad range of nefarious activities. Right at the core of it are the crown jewels of our technology.
▶ 1:22:57Mr. Hurley: In the same way he was describing doing a better job on the export controls, one of the first priorities for me at tfi is to understand better how we can tighten the focus to get the sources of those entities that are involved in these activities.
▶ 1:23:16Sen. Banks: One final question. The federal government has been relying on religious organizations for years to deliver services through grants. But none of the far left rules at hud in the last administration, a faith-based soup kitchen or a homeless shelter would jeopardize their grant funding by offering prayer before a meal. Will you remove those barriers and work to protect faith-based organizations who do good things?
▶ 1:23:48Sen. Banks: What can you do to rollback those rulings from the last administration?
▶ 1:23:52Mr. Woll: Thank you. The secretary has been very clear that he wants to make things easier for the faith-based groups to do the outstanding work they are doing. They are being cut out in certain instances by -- because of certain conditions to grant awards.
▶ 1:24:13Mr. Woll: We want to take a hard look at all of that and see how we can make it -- my understanding is some of the faith-based groups will not even submit an application because they know they will not be awarded the funds. We need to change that messaging. We need to include them. They do outstanding work and we want to encourage them to continue.
▶ 1:24:32Sen. Banks: I want to work with you on that as well. I yield back. >> senator kim.
▶ 1:24:39Sen. Kim: Thank you. Mr. hurley if confirmed, you will oversee the financial crimes enforcement network. In your opening statement you said part of the role you will have is disrupting and dismantling the financial networks to support terrorist groups, organized crime including nations that threaten our national security. Right now we are having before this committee bipartisan talks about cryptocurrency, stable coin.
▶ 1:25:10Sen. Kim: Do you have concerns about north korea, drug cartels and organizations like that from utilizing cryptocurrencies and stable coin?
▶ 1:25:21Mr. Hurley: I absolutely share the concerns on the use of crypto. Our adversaries, any time we use any tool, they are fairly sophisticated and they will find a way around it. We can see obvious examples in recent headlines.
▶ 1:25:43Mr. Hurley: I have not had a chance to dig deep but it seems very clear that they were able to take over $1 billion in crypto and sounds like they successfully laundered it through the block chain.
▶ 1:25:54Sen. Kim: I have talked to colleagues on the others out of the aisle. People are recognizing this is a problem. Industry does not want this to be something that puts a stain upon their technology. One idea that came up is trying to get fcen to take a bigger role in particular when it comes to allowing illicit actors from being able to access mixers, other types of tools. Does that sound like a potential place where fincen can get engaged?
▶ 1:26:23Mr. Hurley: Absolutely, senator. As we both understand very well the block chain is transparent. A friend of mine describes it as prosecution futures. Using basic network analysis you can figure out the source of pretty much everything on the block chain. It makes sense to me that the key is the off-ramps and the intentions.
▶ 1:26:47Sen. Kim: You have that transparency until you have technologies like mixers that can add that anonymity that allows for some of these illicit actors. Do you agree?
▶ 1:26:57Mr. Hurley: Absolutely but at the end of the day there are still ip addresses. With good application of network analysis, at some point it leaves the block chain and to your point, as having the tools in place to catch it at the moment it is trying to get into our financial system and pollute it or be used by terrorists, that is the big opportunity.
▶ 1:27:23Sen. Kim: That is something you will work with me on?
▶ 1:27:24Mr. Hurley: Absolutely.
▶ 1:27:25Sen. Kim: You will be overseeing over fact -- ofac. Right now, trying to get a greater sense in terms of what comes next with regard to syria. I want to ask you if you believe a sanctions regime, the framework we have with respect to syria to be updated to reflect the new political realities on the ground from the collapse of the assad regime.
▶ 1:27:54Mr. Hurley: In our conversation you said we have a moment here in syria and the middle east broadly and I completely agree. Hopefully we can get the best possible outcome. I need to get in the building, get deeper into the intelligence. I have been able to have some conversations with friends who are deep into the topic.
▶ 1:28:19Mr. Hurley: I think the way in which we would take down sanctions to the extent that we can influence the best possible outcome for the region and our own safety, it will be a complicated process. I hope we do it very carefully.
▶ 1:28:36Sen. Kim: I agree. Especially when there are still concerns about isis and terrorist groups. It is not just about the architecture but the enforcement. We have seen with regard to russia where we are seeing p.r.c. Associated entities helping russia circumvent enforcement. What can we be doing better to try to improve that and try to prevent other actors from evading U.S. sanctions?
▶ 1:29:05Mr. Hurley: The discussions that I had and it has been great to get a chance to meet the folks across the silos of tfi. What I am hearing is it does not matter what sanction you claim to have in place. It is the aggressiveness with which to follow-up. I think of the example with the game whack-a-mole. Everything you do there will be a counter response.
▶ 1:29:33Mr. Hurley: When we look at the difference from the campaign pressure in iran and the league in this over the last four years, it is not so much specific sanctions. It is to follow with foreign partners and the banks and being very diligent about, that tanker, the next.
▶ 1:30:02Mr. Hurley: For the russian oil sanctions, not just adopting the same techniques but sharing techniques.
▶ 1:30:10Sen. Kim: And drawing upon the expertise of the staff, civil servants and others. With that, I yield back. >> senator ricketts.
▶ 1:30:15Sen. Ricketts: Thank you for holding this important hearing. I want to thank all the nominees here for their willingness to serve our great nation and to your families for allowing you to do it because we know that your families will sacrifice along with you as you work hard on behalf of our country. I want to continue the theme that senator kim was talking about.
▶ 1:30:40Sen. Ricketts: Our nation's largest existential threat is communist china and it s malign influence. I am committed to finding ways to combat communist china in any way we can.
▶ 1:30:56Sen. Ricketts: After communist china took over in hong kong in 2020, hong kong shifted from a trusted global financial center to a critical tool in communist china's belt to launder money and evade sanctions and carry out other illicit financial activities.
▶ 1:31:18Sen. Ricketts: Hong kong has been responsible for procuring companies to purchase barred iranian oil from ships. Exporters shipped 85% of the semiconductors imported by russia between march of 22 and september 23.
▶ 1:31:40Sen. Ricketts: In 2022 hong kong ranked as russia's second largest semi conductor importer shipping a proximally $400 million worth of semiconductors during the first year of russia's invasion of ukraine. Hong kong has gone rogue much different from the past and is helping our adversaries circumvent U.S. sanctions and export controls. Mr. hurley and Mr.
▶ 1:32:04Sen. Ricketts: Heid, do you agree with this assessment of hong kong?
▶ 1:32:11Mr. Heid: I do.
▶ 1:32:13Mr. Hurley: I do.
▶ 1:32:15Sen. Ricketts: What tools will you prioritize to counter entities like hong kong that exploit loopholes? Mr. hurley?
▶ 1:32:25Mr. Hurley: We talk about prioritizing tools. I would step back and say we have to be holistic. Land of the commerce has informed tools. The state department has important tools. At treasury, through the impact on the financial system and certain entities as they touch our financial system. What I'll say is let's be holistic.
▶ 1:32:51Mr. Hurley: To the extent we can list our allies to help us with it, it is always more effective to be able to counter these activities.
▶ 1:33:00Mr. Heid: I agree exactly with what my colleague said. At the end of the first trump administration we signed an order that said hong kong across all of our legal authorities should be considered part of the prc. More or less, to be softly critical, that went unaddressed for four years. A variety of shell companies were popping up in hong kong, purchasing semiconductors, shipping them to the mainland.
▶ 1:33:28Mr. Heid: This is something that we will have to hit the ground running on.
▶ 1:33:32Sen. Ricketts: To your point Mr. heid it is good from the standpoint of what Mr. hurley just said. It is not just about what tools we have. It is how actively we pursue it. What kind of rigor do we have to pursue the sanctions to be able to make sure they are enforced. You both agree with that?
▶ 1:33:52Mr. Heid: Yes. My life as an investor and market investor, if you are not taking a hard look at what you tried and what did not work, you are not learning and that will be a big focus for me in this job.
▶ 1:34:09Sen. Ricketts: At the end of president biden's term of the administration unleashed an avalanche of reckless rulemaking across various federal agencies. I look forward to working with all of you to rollback the harmful policies that were put in place by biden bureaucrats. One of these rules is a department of commerce artificial intelligence diffusion rule which aims to regulate global diffusion of advanced ai tips and models.
▶ 1:34:38Sen. Ricketts: This misguided rural places arbitrary purchase limits on the licensing process to acquire U.S. computing technologies at approximately 150 countries including allies like israel. These countries would be incentivized to turn to communist china's. Unregulated substitutes. . These countries could be motivated to create their own ai technology outside of our exports controls regime.
▶ 1:35:06Sen. Ricketts: While I certainly agree with the goals of what the administration previously was trying to do to limit china's ability to compete with us in ai, this policy had unintended consequences of doing the opposite. I look forward to working with you Mr. heid and the trump administration on alternatives to this rule to prevent china from capturing the world market in a leading technology without compromising america's advantages. I am over. Thank you.
▶ 1:35:37Chair Scott: Senator reed.
▶ 1:35:40Sen. Reed: Welcome. Mr. hughes we had an opportunity to talk about the resilient retrofit program which supports energy-saving modifications for affordable housing units. It is based on bipartisan legislation. Senator collins and I introduced it. Some of the savings are about $1100 per year with the installation of these energy-saving devices.
▶ 1:36:11Sen. Reed: Press reports indicate the program was canceled. I asked you in the office that your current duty as chief of staff, was this cancel and you responded it is under review. Can you fill us in on the latest?
▶ 1:36:24Mr. Hughes: Thank you for your time in your office. I enjoyed speaking with you. We are currently looking into that. I was informed it is currently under litigation so I cannot speak about that right now but I look forward to getting back with you very soon and continuing the conversation that we had on that topic.
▶ 1:36:44Sen. Reed: Rhode island was awarded $11.8 million in loans and grants. When will this money be available to my constituents?
▶ 1:36:56Mr. Hughes: Say that again?
▶ 1:36:59Sen. Reed: Rhode island has been awarded $11.8 million under this program. When will that money be issued?
▶ 1:37:08Mr. Hughes: Thank you for that and thank you for the letter that you sent her secretary. We will get back to you very soon on that.
▶ 1:37:17Sen. Reed: I would like to introduce an article which talks about the effects of this program. Thank you. Ms. bowman, in march 2020 forward you said that in the execution of its bank regulatory responsibilities the board is meant to operate independently and politically.
▶ 1:37:47Sen. Reed: Can you confirm yes or no whether or not you think that is accurate?
▶ 1:37:53Ms. Bowman: I believe that is accurate.
▶ 1:37:54Sen. Reed: Thank you. I asked because the omb and treasury have an effort to involve themselves in fed affairs. In february the white house issued an executive order saying independent agency officials like you must be supervised by the president. Just yesterday secretary bessent said the treasury plans to revisit prudential regulation and it intends to drive more tailored regulation.
▶ 1:38:25Sen. Reed: Will the fed remained independent on supervision and regulation?
▶ 1:38:28Ms. Bowman: That is a question that I focus on often wishes that we should be applying similar requirements across regulators and holding banks to standards that are transparent and clear. To the extent that we can work together with our auger -- with our other regulators, that is an important focus and goal.
▶ 1:38:54Sen. Reed: The use -- do you plan to submit to regulations for review and involve the treasury departmen
▶ 1:39:02Ms. Bowman: I think it's important that we understand the requirements that we are asking the banking industry and the financial industry to comply with. It is important that we are being consistent across, especially my counterparts in the other regulatory bodies, that our expectations are similar.
▶ 1:39:21Sen. Reed: Submitting rules for review by the omb would be contrary to previous practices of the fed, correct?
▶ 1:39:29Ms. Bowman: As I said earlier it is important that we adhere to the principles of cost-benefit analysis that we are identifying the problem we are trying to solve and that I think that will be part of the process.
▶ 1:39:43Sen. Reed: You have I presume over the last several decades been in the fed adhering to the rules of cost-benefit analysis, consistent with the law, etc. Are you suggesting the fed has been privileged over the last years?
▶ 1:39:59Ms. Bowman: The fed is not required to apply cost-benefit analysis in our regulatory duties. I think that is a very important part of the regulatory process. If confirmed, I intend to strictly comply with cost-benefit analysis.
▶ 1:40:19Sen. Reed: Is doge required to comply with cost-benefit analysis?
▶ 1:40:25Ms. Bowman: I am not familiar with doge requirements.
▶ 1:40:31Sen. Reed: I have not seen any of their responses contain cost-benefit analysis as they wipe off people from offices who they have to recall two or three days later because we have a critical safety issue with our nuclear weapons. I would urge you to think hard about whether you will submit regulation to treasury or to omb. .
▶ 1:40:54Ms. Bowman: Thank you for the question.
▶ 1:40:57Chair Scott: Senator hagerty.
▶ 1:40:59Sen. Hagerty: Thank you. I would like to say a few words about john hurley. I have known john for a decade. I have come to know him as a friend and someone I hold in the highest regard. His tremendous success in the private sector is matched only by his love of this country. His sense of duty and his desire to keep it safe and see if crosser -- see it prosper are amazing. He served in the army in the first gulf war and was awarded a bronze star.
▶ 1:41:31Sen. Hagerty: He has continued to serve throughout his life and most recently he was a member of president trump's intelligence advisory board during the first term. Over the years he has been a great resource in thinking through a number of issues and I have appreciated his perspective and understanding of economic and national security issues. His deep knowledge and expertise is exactly what our country needs in an age of escalating competition and geopolitical tension.
▶ 1:41:59Sen. Hagerty: During the trump administration first term sanctions and other statecraft became more than just symbolic options. They became tools for deterring crime, protecting americans and advancing the nation's national security. At this moment we are at a pivotal time. We need strong leaders who understand our financial system in order to support U.S. national security and help us receive our foreign policy objectives. John will be pivotal in advancing U.S.
▶ 1:42:27Sen. Hagerty: National security and protecting our financial system from abuse by that actors. I look forward to voting for his nomination and I encourage all of my colleagues to do the same. Governor bowman, I would like to turn to you. In the role of vice chairman of supervision you will oversee the world's largest financial institutions and assessing possible threats. I would like to hear what you think the greatest threats are to our financial system.
▶ 1:42:53Ms. Bowman: Thank you for the question and the opportunity to visit with you about some of the issues that are important to you earlier this week. As we are looking at some of the things that will be affecting our financial system, it is important that we understand and have expectations that are banks are held to accountable standards and that they are transparent.
▶ 1:43:16Sen. Hagerty: The stability of our banking system is more critical now than ever. A stable hand like yours in a supervisory role will be absolutely critical. I welcome your confirmation and I look forward to voting for you and I encourage my colleagues to do the same. Thank you.
▶ 1:43:34Chair Scott: We will turn to senator warnock.
▶ 1:43:39Sen. Warnock: Thank you. Mr. hughes, welcome and congratulations on your nomination. Has president trump promised to lower housing costs?
▶ 1:43:52Mr. Hughes: Good to see you. It was good to come into your office and speak with your staff. They were kind enough to give me some georgia peanuts. I appreciate that. Yes, the president has.
▶ 1:44:05Sen. Warnock: Now people are looking to the housing agency to make it happen. Housing affordability is a major problem in georgia. You served as chief of staff to both secretary turner and former secretary carson and now you are nominated for the number two position at the agency.
▶ 1:44:28Sen. Warnock: That is a lot of opportunity to lower costs, to carry out the president's stated objective to lower the cost of housing. Since you have been chief of staff, hud has focused on cutting staff to deliver disaster recovery resources to states like mine slammed by deadly hurricanes. Could you tell me how does that lower cost for georgians?
▶ 1:44:53Mr. Hughes: Thank you for the question. I am assuming what you are referencing is some of the cuts --
▶ 1:45:04Sen. Warnock: How does cutting staff who deliver disaster resources lower housing costs for georgians? That's the question.
▶ 1:45:12Mr. Hughes: My response is I think what you are referring to is the stuff in the media about the 82% cuts. Secretary turner, as soon as he came to hud he made it clear that he is in charge of the agency.
▶ 1:45:29Sen. Warnock: You are stating the obvious and you are number two. I am asking you how does this lower costs.
▶ 1:45:37Mr. Hughes: What I was getting at is those conversations with doge, nothing is final right now. I can tell you with reference to the disaster recovery question, the secretary and I will also make sure that program office and the agency runs as efficiently as possible.
▶ 1:45:58Sen. Warnock: It sounds like you don't have an answer to my question. Hud has canceled grants that support housing construction for georgians with disabilities. How does that lower costs for georgians?
▶ 1:46:09Mr. Hughes: What grant are you referring to?
▶ 1:46:12Sen. Warnock: The grants that support housing construction for georgians with disabilities. You are nominated to be number two at the agency. Are you familiar with that program?
▶ 1:46:23Mr. Hughes: There are a number of grants.
▶ 1:46:25Sen. Warnock: How does canceling grants for people with disabilities lower costs for georgians?
▶ 1:46:30Mr. Hughes: We want to help individuals with disabilities. I just want to know which grant you are referring to so that I can answer your question.
▶ 1:46:39Sen. Warnock: Hud has weaken enforcement of our bedrock or housing laws established as part of the civil rights movement. How does that lower housing costs for georgians? Why should georgians feel better who are concerned about the affordability of housing? I have asked you about folks with disabilities. I am asking about folks who are dealing with the issue of fair housing who face discrimination.
▶ 1:47:12Sen. Warnock: I am asking you how do you help them by weakening enforcement? Does that lower their costs or raise their costs?
▶ 1:47:19Mr. Hughes: Thank you for the question. At hud under secretary carson we tried to champion fair housing and enforce the law. We did that through a number of cases that he brought forth. One was against facebook. There is another domestic violence case and numerous other ones.
▶ 1:47:39Mr. Hughes: Secretary turner, as soon as he was confirmed, he made it very clear to the team that he wants to be a champion of the law for fair housing rights.
▶ 1:47:50Sen. Warnock: Actually we have seen grants terminated in hud in response to the president's d.e.I. Order. You have weaken enforcement. Is that correct?
▶ 1:48:02Mr. Hughes: We will follow the law at hud.
▶ 1:48:05Sen. Warnock: I have heard that over again. They are weakening our ability to make sure that people are in compliance with respect to fair housing. This is a very serious question. I am from a state where ordinary folks are struggling. And we need to solve the housing problem.
▶ 1:48:29Sen. Warnock: I would encourage you to refocus your efforts and the efforts of the agency on making sure that we make housing affordable for ordinary georgians. Thank you.
▶ 1:48:39Mr. Hughes: Thank you and I had a great conversation with your staff and I look forward to working with you.
▶ 1:48:45Chair Scott: Senator mccormick, are you prepared or do you want to wait five minutes? I will take that out of your 5 minutes. Senator warnock, you know the answer to that question. That is 3 minutes.
▶ 1:49:10Sen. Mccormick: Thank you chairman. Thank you ranking member. Great to see you all. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Congratulations to your families. Governor bowman, I want to begin with a question on the U.S. fiscal condition. At the year of -- at the end of fy 24 the debt to gdp ratio was 95%.
▶ 1:49:36Sen. Mccormick: It will climb to 130% over the next 10 years, surpassing the high of 106% in the wake of world war ii. From the vantage point of view being the fomc, how worried are you about the national debt in the context of the treasury markets?
▶ 1:49:55Ms. Bowman: Let me start by saying the fiscal responsibility is that of the congress and the administration so I would not want to overstep and criticize the work that you are doing here. We do recognize as we are considering the state of the economy that we are running in budget deficit while we are experiencing a time of full employment.
▶ 1:50:24Ms. Bowman: As we review the state of the economy, it is important that we recognize that the fiscal path currently is unsustainable. The debt is growing much faster than our growth.
▶ 1:50:36Sen. Mccormick: Thank you. Mr. hurley, good to see you. At the office of terrorism and financial intelligence, it is a very important role. You will face the enormous task of protecting america from bad actors using our financial system in every corner of the world. I campaigned on stopping the flow of fentanyl into the united states, a top priority.
▶ 1:51:03Sen. Mccormick: Can you discuss at a high level the elements of the fentanyl supply chain that rely on the U.S. financial system to move money globally, particularly in mexico and china?
▶ 1:51:15Mr. Hurley: Thanks, senator. I enjoyed our conversation. As I mentioned to your colleagues, not in the building yet, but have been getting briefings. Impressed by the folks who will be working with me in tfi.
▶ 1:51:39Mr. Hurley: My first impression is that the questions were not being asked on this area that may be more broadly there has been less focus on the border and because fentanyl is so associated with the border, I don't know if we have been asking the questions we should ask. With every question I have asked, my sense is enormous enthusiasm to attack this problem.
▶ 1:52:06Mr. Hurley: The combination of tools that tfi can bring together from the national security side and with law enforcement partners, very excited about how we can make an impact. We have seen the stories in the press about the money laundering cycles involving the cpc. Not just our neighbors to the south but also the neighbors to the north. That will be a priority.
▶ 1:52:32Sen. Mccormick: I hope we can talk further about this because I think squeezing the financial system, it is tens of billions of dollars of fentanyl funding going throughout our financial system. There is an opportunity to bring your team to bear if you are confirmed.
▶ 1:52:49Mr. Hurley: I completely agree. Mr. fogel, good to see you again. If confirmed, you will be tasked with supporting the american exporter. A major priority of this administration is to create a fair and level playing field for U.S. businesses. Can you outline the ways that american business looking to export goods overseas is currently at a competitive disadvantage against their competitors in china and how can we counteract that?
▶ 1:53:20Mr. Fogel: Thank you for the question. Good to see you. One of the biggest problems with international trade has been very clear on this, not only tariffs but non-tariff barriers. They are very insidious. They can be regulatory in nature and other requirements that countries impose. The president has prioritized bringing those down.
▶ 1:53:50Mr. Fogel: He has been very clear about that. Fortunately global markets, the division that I have been fortunate enough to be asked to head, that is our number one priority, tackling these barriers. China is our number one threat, existential threat. They are not a trusted actor. They are a bad actor. They are often violating these rules and finding ways around them and we are at a disadvantage.
▶ 1:54:17Sen. Mccormick: I reinforce your point that the cost of capital and the degree to which those chinese companies are benefited from unfair capital practices relative to U.S. businesses is part of the non-tariff barriers, the non-tariff benefits that chinese exporters have vis-a-vis united states companies. Thank you for your vigilance on that. >> thank you.
▶ 1:54:49Sen. Mccormick: Senator gallego.
▶ 1:54:51Sen. Gallego: Trump's roller coaster is causing total chaos in arizona. It is not just the sunshine state for retirement. We produce sophisticated chips for export, batteries and more to global markets over the world. I'm hearing from factories that are now pausing their expansion which means less jobs for arizona because of this chaos.
▶ 1:55:21Sen. Gallego: They have no idea what tomorrow is going to bring. This is clearly not a way you should run a country. Trump promised to bring manufacturing back. I would love to see it but now I am seeing the opposite. Do you think the way the president is conducting these trade policies is the best way to promote manufacturing and open opportunities abroad for exporters and arizona too?
▶ 1:55:50Mr. Hurley: Thank you for the question. I support what the president is doing. He has been very clear. I want to distinguish between short term, medium and long-term applications. The president has been very clear that the past paradigm is no longer going to work. Foreign countries need to bring down their barriers. That is going to create opportunities for exporters including in arizona. That will take time. That is why I am distinguishing between the immediate term.
▶ 1:56:21Mr. Hurley: You will see more jobs in arizona as a result of more exporting. Also in terms of manufacturing, he has been very clear, it is a priority to re-industrialize the united states. We have already seen with tsmc coming through arizona, a very large project. The president has prioritized this.
▶ 1:56:44Mr. Hurley: I will mention the de-regulatory agenda which will lead to more jobs and more opportunities for exporters and others.
▶ 1:56:52Sen. Gallego: Certainly there is a lot happening but clarity is not what I am sensing from the business community especially over the actions of the last couple of days. Madam chair, I would ask for unanimous consent to submit his record -- this letter to the record demanding investigation to the potential insider trading and corruption ahead of trump's tariff pause that happened yesterday. >> without objection.
▶ 1:57:19Sen. Gallego: I look forward to getting answers. Trump laid it out very plainly. He told people to buy right before announcing the suspension. I want to know what he and his people were doing before and between that they were able to grossly profit off of this corruption that is affecting main street and the economy. Specifically, what did he tell people in the white house. I hope our letter gets to the bottom of this.
▶ 1:57:48Sen. Gallego: Moving on, there was an earlier conversation Mr. hughes regarding the creation of a joint task force when it comes to interior and hud to find more available land. I would love to see if we can work on some of that together. As you are aware, arizona is still in a very strong housing crunch.
▶ 1:58:18Sen. Gallego: 65% of our land is federal land. A lot of beautiful land we want to preserve for future generations to go hiking, hunting, fishing. But I'm sure that there are some lands that are not in that category, some that are not sensitive to tribal cultures that I think we can work with especially with our local municipalities who want to see more high density housing on the perimeter of cities.
▶ 1:58:49Sen. Gallego: One of the things I was hoping to make sure if you will engage the task force is that you are engaging with affected communities, tribal communities and rural areas and will there be public comment periods for this and will the communities have a say? What we don't want to see happen is a wholesale in the dark sale of this land without us having any opportunity.
▶ 1:59:18Sen. Gallego: You will have some willing years in arizona if we have good community engagement.
▶ 1:59:28Mr. Hurley: Thank you for the question. I will absolutely look into that .
▶ 1:59:36Sen. Gallego: In terms of transparency, that is what we want to highlight. Communities that have largely been left behind that have not seen a public process in the past. Nothing has been happening there. A very transparent process about what is going to be potentially developed, sold, is going to be important to build trust in these communities.
▶ 1:59:59Mr. Hurley: Absolutely. Cdfi --
▶ 2:00:04Sen. Gallego: Thank you. >> the ranking member has asked that I recognized senator van hollen. >> president trump stare us into the economy into chaos.
▶ 2:00:34Sen. Gallego: If I have heard from a lot of small businesses in maryland that are very worried that the tariffs will put them out of business and in some cases they are required to lay off people and tariffs on foreign goods and retaliatory tariffs. I want to speak about another component of this because it was very curious that while the terrorists were originally placed on uninhabited islands around the world, they were not placed on russia.
▶ 2:01:07Sen. Gallego: It was interesting because the tariffs were placed on ukraine but not on russia. And that comes at a time when it seems vladimir putin is playing president trump like a fiddle after we have witnessed president trump throw president zelensky under the bus at the white house. President zelensky subsequently agreed to a cease-fire.
▶ 2:01:33Sen. Gallego: Putin has refused to agree to a cease-fire and has screened the president out. I want to talk about the tools that we use when it comes to exercising our foreign policy. Mr. hurley, you will be in charge of sanctions implementation is confirmed at the treasury department.
▶ 2:01:58Sen. Gallego: The fact that the president put sanctions on our ukrainian partners and not on russia is curious to me. I want to ask you about the oil price cap in place, that was put in place by the united states and many of our european partners and other allies around the world.
▶ 2:02:22Sen. Gallego: Obviously we need to work to make sure it is as effective as possible but my question to you is do you support continuing to apply the oil price cap?
▶ 2:02:31Mr. Hurley: Thank you very much. I appreciate the question. We mentioned the plight of the suffering going on ukraine that is very near and dear to me given that my late wife, her grandfather was from ukraine and fought in world war ii on the soviet side. It is so difficult and we are all feeling terrible about the suffering that is happening the last several years.
▶ 2:03:02Mr. Hurley: In terms of sanctions on russia, my job at tfi is to provide the secretary and the president tools. As he and secretary rubio decide the way forward in ukraine, I think we all support the idea of ending the suffering and the conflict. If the direction is to tighten the sanctions and apply higher costs, we will do that.
▶ 2:03:30Mr. Hurley: If the direction is the other direction which is more carrots to get us to a peaceful result, that will be our job.
▶ 2:03:36Sen. Van Hollen: First of all I agree with you we need to end the suffering. Thank you for your own prior service in our military. Your predecessors saw their jobs not simply as implementation although that is obviously part of it but also as a policy position, providing advice. I will ask my question to you again.
▶ 2:04:06Sen. Van Hollen: Do you agree that we should maintain the oil price cap on russian oil?
▶ 2:04:13Mr. Hurley: Generally, I completely agree that my job is to implement.
▶ 2:04:22Sen. Van Hollen: I'm sorry I will have to interrupt you. We only have five minutes.
▶ 2:04:28Mr. Hurley: Deeper understand the intelligence and the logic behind the price cap, I am reluctant to say that this is the right tool. Certainly I want to use the right tools to bring peace there and support the president.
▶ 2:04:43Sen. Van Hollen: It has been a good tool. It is obviously not perfect. There are no perfect tools. You need a lot of tools. Which is why we are so curious the president decided not to impose any tariffs on russia. We don't have a huge amount of trade with russia but we have a trade deficit with russia that the president is focused on. Maybe if confirmed, you can tell me why he left off russia and hit ukraine.
▶ 2:05:10Sen. Van Hollen: On the oil price cap, I am asking because there has been some talk in the press that the trump administration may decide to abandon the oil price cap. In my view it would make zero cents to abandon the oil price cap or any sanctions unless we have a peace agreement.
▶ 2:05:36Sen. Van Hollen: You would agree that it does not make sense to relieve pressure on russia until we have achieved our goals with respect to russia, do you agree with that?
▶ 2:05:47Mr. Hurley: In thinking about the broad range of tools available to the president in this case, for sure, if putin is resisting I would expect the president to look to me and the rest of the agency to apply more pressure and to the extent that we are heading in effect -- heading in a better direction to relieve pressure. My son as a lieutenant in germany.
▶ 2:06:15Mr. Hurley: We stand ready to provide the president with whatever tools he needs.
▶ 2:06:18Sen. Mccormick: The oil price cap was put in place because of putin's invasion of ukraine. I have a simple question. You do agree that russia is the aggressor in this war?
▶ 2:06:33Mr. Hurley: I believe the cause of the war in ukraine was a failure of deterrence and it seems like we have adequate deterrence in the first term.
▶ 2:06:44Sen. Van Hollen: This is a simple question. It is why we and our allies are trying to punish russia for its actions, whether it is through the oil price cap or other means because at least until recently united states and our allies recognized that russia was the aggressor. Just a very simple question. Do you agree that putin and russia are the aggressors in the war in ukraine? Did they start the war?
▶ 2:07:14Mr. Hurley: I believe military conflict started with the russians in two invasions beginning with crimea. I believe the question of aggressor is more complicated than that. Going back to 2012 -- Sen. so you do not agree --
▶ 2:07:35Sen. Van Hollen: So you do not agree that russia started the war in ukraine? Mr. chairman, it was a yes or no question. The question is who -- so you don't want to give a yes or no question?
▶ 2:07:54Mr. Hurley: I believe in peace through strength and we failed to have adequate strength.
▶ 2:08:00Sen. Van Hollen: I will take that as you don't want to answer.
▶ 2:08:08Chair Scott: Governor bowman. Thank you for being here. Your predecessor vice chair barr sat before the committee and never answered the question that is really important. Why was there no accountability in the federal reserve when we saw the second, third and fourth largest bank failures until this day, I am not sure we even know what really happened.
▶ 2:08:35Chair Scott: Additionally it is my understanding that no staff from the federal reserve or the san francisco fed were fired, suspended or faced any real consequences. Do you believe that there was appropriate accountability for the failures?
▶ 2:08:51Ms. Bowman: Thank you for that question. I think it is an important issue that we need to fully understand what happened in the run-up to and in the aftermath of the failure of silicon valley bank.
▶ 2:09:06Ms. Bowman: I would like to see an ability to understand how we can improve supervision going forward and one of those ways that we can do from the record of silicon valley bank and our supervision going up to it is to ensure that we are focusing on the core material financial risks that affect a bank's condition.
▶ 2:09:27Chair Scott: Will you commit to fully investigating because no doubt there were supervisory failures and holding those accountable is our responsibility.
▶ 2:09:37Ms. Bowman: Yes.
▶ 2:09:38Chair Scott: Thank you. Speaking of the failure at silicon valley bank, some have sought to blame the dodd frank reform that we passed in a bipartisan fashion that required the tailoring of regulation, not de-regulation. It has been widely acknowledged that the main cause was interest rate risk. It appears that this banking issue was missed by regulators in their supervision.
▶ 2:10:08Chair Scott: It seems that regulators were more focused on so-called climate risks and were completely caught off guard by the interest rate risk. Former vice chair barr testified that he was not aware of possible interest rate risk until mid-february 2023, weeks before the failure.
▶ 2:10:33Chair Scott: In your role as chair of the board subcommittee on small or regional community banking, did you evaluate potential interest rate risks before february? Do you think the board could have done more to prevent svb?
▶ 2:10:51Ms. Bowman: That is an excellent question and I would like to give you my perspective. As we were increasing interest rates in a dramatic fashion through the fomc it was important to understand what the impact would be on our smaller bank portfolios. That was the $15 billion and below that I was responsible for in that subcommittee.
▶ 2:11:09Ms. Bowman: We began shocking the portfolios of all of the state member banks within the federal reserve and underneath are supervision up to 6% so that we would understand what the impacts and implications of the increases in rates might be on those smaller institutions.
▶ 2:11:28Ms. Bowman: We engaged in a number of conversations with bank commissioners, the banks themselves, with icba and their members.
▶ 2:11:43Ms. Bowman: I participated in a number of fed events where we were talking about the interest rate risk in these portfolios and I wrote an article published in the community banking connections that was published in january of 2023.
▶ 2:12:00Chair Scott: It is safe to say that you took the interest rate risk seriously in your job on that subcommittee. Mr. hughes, in my opening statement I alluded to your operational experience at hud, having served as chief of staff for two hud secretaries. What lessons did you learn that will enable you to be efficient and effective as deputy secretary?
▶ 2:12:25Mr. Hughes: Thank you for the question. Good to see you again. None secretary is looking forward to seeing you in your home state this weekend -- I know the secretary is looking forward to seeing you in your home state this weekend. Overall, both of them are great public servants. One of the things I learned under Dr.
▶ 2:12:48Mr. Hughes: Carson's leadership was to look at every issue, make sure that every point on a decision is given to him so that they can make a good decisions on that particular policy matter. Always listen to people with a compassionate lens. Spending almost 10 years with Dr. carson, that is what I learned. Also putting the best people around the secretary.
▶ 2:13:18Mr. Hughes: I was very passionate about personnel. If you look at the last hud team at the department, it was a great group of people and many of them returned.
▶ 2:13:30Chair Scott: Thank you. Senator rochester.
▶ 2:13:42Sen. Rochester: In the last hearing I noted that it was unfortunate that we had so little time for some very important consequential nominees. This one is even more jampacked than that one and it ranges from housing to financial regulation to foreign intelligence.
▶ 2:14:01Sen. Rochester: I really just want to say I feel it is a disservice to the american people and also to the nominees so that they are seriously considered. I will be submitting questions for the record because I cannot get to all of you in four or five minutes but I want to focus today on Mr. hughes. Thank you for meeting with me in my office. I appreciated the opportunity to talk about housing policy and how it is one of my top priorities.
▶ 2:14:31Sen. Rochester: It is one of the priorities of my constituents. I am proud to say my first piece of legislation that I have led as a U.S. senator was on housing. A bipartisan piece of legislation called the housing supply frameworks act with senator crapo, and senator tillis.
▶ 2:14:54Sen. Rochester: It develops frameworks for best practices on zoning policies and is endorsed by more than 140 housing and governmental and economic developer groups. Do you believe the federal government can play a role in providing best practices to localities to promote housing production and cut red tape?
▶ 2:15:14Mr. Hughes: Thank you for the question and I appreciated the time in our office -- in your office. We talked about the former cfo and the accomplishments we got done at hud and the material weaknesses and how we eliminated that and how we want to continue those efforts in the next administration. To answer your question, yes. The federal government can play an important role.
▶ 2:15:44Mr. Hughes: We would love to work with you on the legislation that you have proposed. I would love to look at that and have a good discussion with you.
▶ 2:15:54Sen. Blount Rochester: It is interesting the initial framework for standard zoning enabling act was passed in the 1920's. Things have changed a lot since the 1920's. I look forward to working with my colleagues to get the housing supply frameworks act over the finish line and to address this housing crisis that we are all experiencing and really meet this moment.
▶ 2:16:20Sen. Blount Rochester: I would say by providing states and localities with a menu of options, communities who are ready to increase the housing supply will be empowered to reform their land-use regulations. Mr. hughes, I want to shift gears. When we met in my office we spoke about our experiences as deputies. I was deputy secretary of health and social services in delaware.
▶ 2:16:42Sen. Blount Rochester: We recognized the fact that a major part of this role, you said you were passionate about the workforce and a major part is workforce planning. You have already been in leadership, a leadership role at hud before and now, correct?
▶ 2:17:02Mr. Hurley: Yes.
▶ 2:17:05Sen. Blount Rochester: When asked about the closure of field offices, you said the secretary is taking inventory. What are the elements of that inventory? Does hud plan to close offices?
▶ 2:17:17Mr. Hughes: We have been meeting with a number of staff seeing what offices throughout the country are being impactful and taking inventory to look at how best we can serve the people it represents.
▶ 2:17:37Sen. Blount Rochester: What constitutes impactful for you? What are you looking at to decide whether close offices are not?
▶ 2:17:46Mr. Hughes: Historically since the field offices have been in place, most of the time those offices and the office you are referring to, they were there to promote secretarial priorities. They have become a place where people in states and regions can reach out to to get information for important issues relevant to their areas.
▶ 2:18:13Mr. Hughes: C1 that is what we have currently been doing.
▶ 2:18:19Sen. Blount Rochester: I know I am running out of time but we would like to get the elements of what that means. The housing and community development act requires hud to maintain an office in every state, closing the wilmington field office without a waiver would be breaking the law. I think all of us as members who have constituents would like to know, what are the elements and will you come back to congress for a waiver should you decide?
▶ 2:18:45Mr. Hughes: I will follow what the committee says, but I can assure you that secretary turner is a very good man. He is a leader, and he will follow the law. And I will follow the law.
▶ 2:18:59Sen. Blount Rochester: I have run out of time so I will yield back and I will submit questions for the record for the other nominees. >> thank you. Senator warren.
▶ 2:19:09Sen. Warren: I appreciate you giving me this extra time so I can have a second round of questions. It's very generous parent I want to respond to a comment made by my colleague from north carolina. Governor bowman, this is a yes or no question.
▶ 2:19:24Sen. Warren: At the onset of covid, when markets were volatile like we saw them last week, did vice chair corals initiated emergency stress test or a so-called scenario analysis to understand whether or not the banks would be resilient to that shock?
▶ 2:19:42Gov. Bowman: Senator warren --
▶ 2:19:46Sen. Warren: Yes or no. It's a yes or no.
▶ 2:19:48Gov. Bowman: Yes, he did.
▶ 2:19:50Sen. Warren: Thank you. I don't want to get in this tangle again. But people reasonably can ask why you are not willing to do this now. And whether you are worried about embarrassing president trump because this shock is one unlike a virus that is self-inflicted by the president of the united states. So I have a question for Mr. fogel. He would be responsible for opening markets are broad U.S. businesses.
▶ 2:20:19Sen. Warren: The president has made that job harder with the chaos of his on-again, off-again tariffs. The chairman of the federal reserve has said that costs are likely to rise, that unemployment is likely to go up. Some businesses are already handing out pink slips, retirement accounts have taken a hit. Economists say if we continue down this road, a recession is inevitable.
▶ 2:20:46Sen. Warren: Do you agree that each of those outcomes is bad for american businesses?
▶ 2:20:51Mr. Fogel: Senator, first of all, I am not an economist.
▶ 2:21:01Sen. Warren: Does that make it hard to know whether costs going up for families is a problem?
▶ 2:21:03Mr. Fogel: Respectfully, I think he has been clear about his policies.
▶ 2:21:06Sen. Warren: So the causes have been identified by the things we can see with our own eyes. Do you think those things are good things or bad things?
▶ 2:21:16Mr. Fogel: Again, I am optimistic about the results.
▶ 2:21:20Sen. Warren: I know. In the world you all live in, optimism seems to be the whole reality here. Let me just ask one other question. And that is a question about housing. This is one specific area where president trump's red light, green light caret -- tariff payoffs is going to hit families paired we have a housing shortage of 5 million homes. This has raised housing costs and pushed homeownership out of reach for way too many families.
▶ 2:21:50Sen. Warren: President trump's tariff or is making the problem even worse. For example, 7% of goods that go into building a new home in the united states are imported. With china being the largest supplier of building materials by far. Things like appliances, lighting fixtures, power tools that construction workers use. Mr. hughes, as you may know, president trump raised the tariffs on the goods we import from china to 145%.
▶ 2:22:21Sen. Warren: Do you think this is going to make it more expensive for homebuilders to build new homes?
▶ 2:22:30Mr. Hughes: Iq for the question and thank you for having me to your office yesterday. I really enjoyed our time. To answer your question, I'm not an economist, but I do believe in the president's vision. And a strategy for our country. I think over time, it's going to be --
▶ 2:22:45Sen. Warren: That's not my question. If those costs go up, will it raise the price of housing for new home construction?
▶ 2:22:52Mr. Hughes: To look at the whole issue, we have had millions of people come into this country over the last --
▶ 2:22:59Sen. Warren: Ok, I -- this whole panel want to dodge and weave. Let me give you an answer. Last night, the ceo of the national association of homebuilders said "we are anticipating higher material prices, which are either going to be absorbed by the builder or more likely, they will be passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices and the cost of that home.
▶ 2:23:26Sen. Warren: How much more will families have to pay for a new midsize home thanks to president trump's tariffs? According to the national association of homebuilders last night, between $7,500 and $10,000." let me just say that again. President trump's tariffs are raising the cost of a new home by $7,500 to $10,000. And that may just be the lower bound.
▶ 2:23:55Sen. Warren: Because president trump's tariffs are also putting pressure on interest rates, which will make it more expensive to build, and more expensive to get a mortgage. President trump is making it personally impossible for more americans to own a home. We are not going to have a chance to lower costs if trump keeps up this tariff chaos. Thank you, Mr. chairman. I appreciate the extra time.
▶ 2:24:20Chair Scott: I will go ahead and dive into an unprepared five minutes of questions myself. Let me first start by saying to robert baldwin, who has been part of our team here for a couple of years, thank you for your service to our country. You have now served us on the bank committee, you served us as part of the national security team as well in your service to this nation. It is a blessing to all of us.
▶ 2:24:51Chair Scott: We are thankful that you did it. We will miss you and I look forward to staying in touch with you and seeing your career continue. I think the ranking member has brought up some interesting points that I will dive into a little bit, and go beyond that. Before I get there, Mr. fogel, the congress department plays an essential role in helping american businesses compete overseas/what role should ita and the U.S. commercial service play in competing specifically against china?
▶ 2:25:23Mr. Fogel: Sure. That is the number one issue, from an economic and national security issue, but is the china threat. I had the honor of serving the last trump administration where that was my number one priority as well on the economic front. One of the things that we could do better is more interagency coordination, leveraging the capabilities of agencies like the export/import bank, the dfc. There are certain capabilities they have to fight china that are not being fully leveraged.
▶ 2:25:56Mr. Fogel: Xm, for example, has a financing program authorization of $27 billion. Authorized by congress. Only a couple billion of that has been used. There is plenty of room there. Also, I will note the professional staff and the global markets, they are the tip of this beer. They are in country throughout the world. They are the ones on the ground who would be able to identify the china threat early and allow us to be efficient in competing with china.
▶ 2:26:27Chair Scott: Thank you. Just yesterday, we saw the tariffs on 75 countries that came to the table to negotiate with the administration. This is an encouraging sign. I look forward to see how much more the president can accomplish with a fully staffed team around him, including the nominees before us today. Mr. fogel, I would like to ask you another question as it relates to the possible negotiations that will produce fruit. More jobs are better.
▶ 2:26:54Mr. Fogel: Yes.
▶ 2:26:55Chair Scott: Then you vectoring jobs coming into america -- manufacturing jobs coming into america is a good thing.
▶ 2:27:02Mr. Fogel: It is.
▶ 2:27:03Chair Scott: Costs going up is probably a bad thing.
▶ 2:27:06Mr. Fogel: Correct.
▶ 2:27:07Chair Scott: Seeing eggs go down 30% is probably a good thing.
▶ 2:27:11Mr. Fogel: Correct.
▶ 2:27:12Chair Scott: Biden administration, gas prices spiked to records we are not comfortable with. Bad.
▶ 2:27:20Mr. Fogel: That's bad.
▶ 2:27:21Chair Scott: The last 81 days, prices have come down. Good.
▶ 2:27:25Mr. Fogel: That's good.
▶ 2:27:26Chair Scott: Inflation, hit 9% in july 2021. Bad.
▶ 2:27:32Mr. Fogel: Correct.
▶ 2:27:36Chair Scott: Inflation down to 2.2%, 3% or so, good.
▶ 2:27:38Mr. Fogel: Good.
▶ 2:27:38Chair Scott: Housing prices spiked and interest rates went to seven point some odd percent under the biden administration, during the first trump administration, we mostly saw mortgages around 3%. I would rather have a 3% mortgage and not a 7% mortgage.
▶ 2:27:57Mr. Fogel: Right.
▶ 2:27:58Chair Scott: You too?
▶ 2:28:00Mr. Fogel: Yes.
▶ 2:28:01Chair Scott: We can have everyone participate but I will stick with Mr. fogel since he seems so prepared for these lines of questioning I have. If we were to see a return to inflation -- to interest rates for homes continue to drop as we have already seen, that is probably good for the first time home buyer.
▶ 2:28:19Mr. Fogel: Correct, senator.
▶ 2:28:21Chair Scott: I would like to hope that if we have seen this much progress in 81 days, that the next 81 days is like the first 81 days, most americans and most places will breathe a sigh of relief. Likely?
▶ 2:28:38Mr. Fogel: Likely, yes.
▶ 2:28:39Chair Scott: Not guaranteed but pretty sure it's good. There has been some consternation around the tariffs, and I think frankly, it makes sense to me. The question I have is if in fact we will have a resetting of the global economy back towards american dominance, the net effect could be incredibly positive.
▶ 2:29:00Mr. Fogel: Yes, I fully agree.
▶ 2:29:02Chair Scott: I have asked my questions too quickly, I have 20 seconds. I will yield back that time and go back to senator alsobrooks.
▶ 2:29:12Sen. Alsobrooks: Thank you so much. Thank you for hosting today's hearing and I want to say congratulations to all of the nominees and baking for your willingness to serve. I have ache few quick -- I have a few quick questions for Mr. hughes in Mr. woll. As general counsel respectfully, you oversee the day-to-day management of an organization responsible for lowering housing costs.
▶ 2:29:36Sen. Alsobrooks: I want to understand how you will treat the federal workers who will be responsible for carrying out this work, many of whom you know are my constituents. As a judge ruled in late march that the administration broke the law, by firing probationary workers from many agencies, and following this ruling, a federal judge in maryland issued a ruling requiring effective employees to be reinstated to several agencies.
▶ 2:30:08Sen. Alsobrooks: Including hud on march 17, hud reinstated over 300 fired probationary employees, they told them they would be reinstated, but that they should cancel all of their unemployment claims because they would receive back pay and benefits. However, on marched when he fourth, the same employees received a second emailed from hud stating that hud would not provide employees with backpay for the time that they were illegally out of work. Hud also denied their continuation of traditional health insurance coverage. Mr. hughes and Mr.
▶ 2:30:35Sen. Alsobrooks: Woll, I don't have to tell you how wrong this is. I sent a letter along with senator van hollen, warner and came to secretary turner asking why the department is refusing to provide rehired probationary were -- workers with backpay. Will you, pursuant to the law and in concert with the law, to immediately provide pat -- backpay to restore health benefits according to the law to all recently reinstated hud employees?
▶ 2:31:07Mr. Hughes: Thank you for the question. I look forward to discussing that issue. It's my understanding that that is currently under litigation so I cannot comment on the. But I would like to discuss with you at the appropriate time and have a deeper conversation.
▶ 2:31:18Sen. Alsobrooks: It is not under litigation or the court ruled these workers were entitled to backpay. What we know is as we have seen very often with this administration, they are not complying with the law, that the order said they had to be reinstated and to be given backpay.
▶ 2:31:36Mr. Hughes: It's my understanding that it is ongoing. But I can tell you one thing that we will follow the law. I promise you that.
▶ 2:31:43Mr. Woll: Senator, if I were to be confirmed as general counsel, my counsel to hud would always be to follow the law and the constitution, to the extent that employees are owed any backpay or any benefits, we will absolutely make sure we are in compliance with all applicable federal laws that protect employees.
▶ 2:32:04Sen. Alsobrooks: So you would reinstate those with backpay, if you were to learn and I'm sure you will, that they have been denied that backpay?
▶ 2:32:11Mr. Woll: If I learned that we have done something that is inconsistent with the law, we will take appropriate action to be compliant with the law and we will always follow court orders.
▶ 2:32:25Sen. Alsobrooks: Just a couple other quick questions to Ms. bowman. I wanted to ask you, this current administration has been aggressively downsizing the workforces of the federal financial regulatory agencies in the doge guys have directed other regulatory agencies including the federal deposit insurance corporation and the office of the comptroller of the currency to cut its bank examination staff.
▶ 2:32:52Sen. Alsobrooks: I'm sure with your experience, you know this could reduce scrutiny over our banking system. Do you agree that downsizing supervisory staff at the fed and other regulatory agencies could threaten the safety and soundness of the american banking system?
▶ 2:33:05Ms. Bowman: I appreciate the question. I look forward to meeting you at some point in the future to discuss these issues that might be important to you. I do believe that our examination staff's are of the most importance when we are talking about how we execute our responsibilities under supervision for our safety and stability in soundness of the banking system.
▶ 2:33:31Ms. Bowman: If I were to do a review of our supervision and regulation division, should I be confirmed, I would be very sensitive to the fact that we need to be able to fully and effectively implement our responsibilities for bank regulation. Indiscriminately firing the men and women responsible for that, you would agree with threaten the soundness of our system.
▶ 2:33:54Ms. Bowman: It seems it would be important to understand the composition of the workforce and ensure that those that were subject to any removal would be appropriately made -- met?
▶ 2:34:07Sen. Alsobrooks: I yield. Thank you so much.
▶ 2:34:09Chair Scott: Thank you. That concludes the question and answer portion of today's hearing. I would like to thank our nominees for testifying before the committee today, and thank you for your willingness to serve our country. For senators, all follow-on questions for the record must be submitted by noon, wednesday, april 16. For our witnesses, please respond by wednesday, april 23, at 5:00 p.m.
▶ 2:34:36Chair Scott: The written questions you receive in order to facilitate this committee promptly processing these nominations. With that, the hearing is adjourned.