▶ 0:14:48Chair Wicker: This hearing will come to order. I welcome our witnesses and their families and thank them for being here this morning. The united states is up against the most dangerous threat environment we faced since world war ii. I say it frequently, but it needs to be said even more frequently. I am grateful that these two individuals have stepped up to help in thesehelp us in these cg times. Mr.
▶ 0:15:18Chair Wicker: Scott pappano has been nominated to be principal deputy administrator of the national security -- national nuclear security administration. In this position, Mr. pappano will help lead an organization tasked with modernizing our long neglected nuclear weapons stockpile. He must be up to the task because our nuclear dangers are more complex than ever.
▶ 0:15:43Chair Wicker: Over the past several years, we watched as russia, china, and north korea have rapidly expanded their nuclear arsenals and new types of weapons, weapons for which we are not prepared. In his previous position, Mr. pappano saw firsthand that the U.S. is far behind in shipbuilding.
▶ 0:16:05Chair Wicker: I hope he will bring important lessons from that experience and apply them to this role, modernizing our nuclear deterrent is a national imperative. And this committee expects to see results. I look forward to hearing how Mr. pappano instance to -- intends to drive nnsa to this objective. Mr.
▶ 0:16:25Chair Wicker: Michael cadenazzi has been nominated to be the assistant secretary of defense for industrial base policy at the department of defense. Mr. cadenazzi served 10 years at the U.S. navy as a cryptologic officer and then took his talents to private industry. He spent 20 years addressing strategic and operational defense and aerospace challenges.
▶ 0:16:51Chair Wicker: He has launched or participated in startups working on analytics, technical service, and artificial intelligence. He has been nominated to a position that is relatively new, but it must not be overlooked. As a matter of fact, it should be given very serious attention. The office of industrial base policy is one of the most important posts in the pentagon.
▶ 0:17:16Chair Wicker: We need a large and capable cohort of defense industrial policy analyst who can bring serious options to the secretary of defense and the congress, and we need those analysts to be guided by a capable leader. I look forward to hearing Mr. cadenazzi's opinions on how we can improve the end of the analytic capacity and investment authorities to build a more resilient industrial base.
▶ 0:17:43Chair Wicker: I look forward to their testimony, and I now turn to my dear friend and ranking member senator reed.
▶ 0:17:49Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Let me welcome Mr. cadenazzi and vice admiral pappano. Welcome, gentlemen. Congratulations on your nomination. This is a special moment. I want to recognize all of the rhode islanders.
▶ 0:18:09Chair Wicker: We are pressed for time.
▶ 0:18:11Sen. Reed: I know. I can name them one by one if you would like. Alright, I will move on. Mr. cadenazzi, the position serves as a principal adviser to the under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment for all industrial base policies and related matter.
▶ 0:18:32Sen. Reed: The position has a wide scope of responsibility from ensuring supply chain security to investments and critical defense sectors to coordinating small business programs. If you are confirmed, you would be the second person to hold this office. As such, there are a number of important challenges you will need to address.
▶ 0:18:54Sen. Reed: In particular, the defense department needs a coordinated strategy for working with the defense industry to expand production capacity of weapons systems, munitions, and key technologies such as electronics, hypersonic, and bio manufacturing. These technologies will be crucial for maintaining america's global competitiveness and will require working with industry across the board from contractors to suppliers and producers of raw materials.
▶ 0:19:22Sen. Reed: I would ask for your plans and addressing a significant challenge going forward. Further as we have seen with greater clarity over the last several years, ensuring supply chain security and access to strategic minerals such as rare earth elements is critical for the department and defense industrial base. The defense department must take a proactive approach to identifying threats and vulnerabilities for supply chains and develop plans and tools to mitigate those risks.
▶ 0:19:50Sen. Reed: I would note that doing so would require the department work across the interagency with multiple other federal agencies. I would like to know your thoughts on how we would address this challenge. Mr. cadenazzi, if confirmed, your experience as a navy officer and business leader in the high-tech field will be valuable to meeting these challenges. Ever, I would indicate too that you will have to pick up and grow your knowledge very rapidly because these fields are changing so rapidly.
▶ 0:20:20Sen. Reed: You have a challenging task, and I wish you well. Mr. pappano, admiral pappano, you have been nominated to the national nuclear security administration, or nnsa. You retired last month as the vice admiral after a 36 year career in the navy. Thank you for your service. You were a pincer believer and military deputy to the assistant secretary of the navy for research so you come well equipped to this task.
▶ 0:20:50Sen. Reed: If confirmed, you will lead the day-to-day operations of the nnsa. Most importantly, you will lead efforts to modernize the warheads in our nuclear triad of submarines, heavy bombers, and intercontinental ballistic missiles. The nnsa has been working for years to complete this modernization. But the department is experiencing tremendous workload and simultaneously read -- recapitalizing.
▶ 0:21:22Sen. Reed: Much of the info structure dates back to the manhattan project. I would note the nnsa's workforce of specialized nuclear scientists and engineers as fundamental for accomplishing these missions. I am concerned more in the department -- morale and the department has been badly harmed as hundreds of employees have been threatened or fired with -- hundreds of employees have been fired or threatened with firing. I look forward to learning how you work to maintain our nuclear deterrent.
▶ 0:21:53Sen. Reed: Thank you again to our nominees. I look forward to your testimony. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:21:57Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator reed. I too am delighted that the state of rhode island is so well represented.
▶ 0:22:07Sen. Reed: Thank you.
▶ 0:22:10Chair Wicker: Individuals. At this point, we will recognize our guests for their opening statements. Mr. cadenazzi, you are recognized for your opening statements.
▶ 0:22:29Mr. Cadenazzi: Thank you, senator. Chairman wicker, ranking member read, members of the senate armed services committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I would like to thank president trump, the administration, secretary hegseth, and their team for my team for their support. I would also think that knowledge my family. My father, my mother, my sister marissa, my three daughters.
▶ 0:23:02Mr. Cadenazzi: Their energy and after give my life honor and fill me with pride. I would like to thank my wife sarah. My entire adult life has been spent in the defense sector and it is important to address the critical needs of our industrial base. From my oath to the nation in august of 1991 through 10 years of active duty service as a naval officer, I had the privilege to serve with dedicated military professionals of every rank and branch.
▶ 0:23:32Mr. Cadenazzi: Over the past two decades, I have been fortunate enough to work with the defense industrial base from the primes down to the supply chain while tackling a myriad of business issues. At this cortical time, I see the scale of challenges facing our military while others outpace us in many ways. We face constraints in crucial and exquisite capabilities delivered in uncomfortably limited quantities over long timelines, experiencing delivery delays and increasing costs.
▶ 0:24:05Mr. Cadenazzi: There are something not enough weapons or platforms and our readiness is inadequate. These are national level challenges that undermine our lethality and security. Senators come I want this role because I want america to win. I want to contribute to america's future victories. I want to take part in overcoming these challenges and forging a more resilient, innovative, and responsive version of the industrial machine that has underpinned our national security since world war ii.
▶ 0:24:31Mr. Cadenazzi: This role is critical as secretary hegseth's commitment to rebuild the military by vandalizing the defense industrial base. If confirmed, I will execute the role with three guiding principles, prioritization, productivity, and production. First, prioritization. We must focus on the urgent needs of war fighters today positioning for the challenges of tomorrow. There are immediate problems in lethality, lower to your supply and readiness.
▶ 0:24:59Mr. Cadenazzi: And there is the need -- low or er tier supply chain, and readiness. There is an abundance of analysis on our industrial problems. Thankfully an equally abundant set of resolutions. Hard choices await us as a department and as a nation. Second productivity,.
▶ 0:25:25Mr. Cadenazzi: This office must increase industrial productivity at every level. If confirmed, I will collaborate across government and industry to target critical investment into the most pressing supply chain gaps and bottlenecks. I believe it was accelerated adoption with today's tools to secure the leap had benefits of ai and quantum for the future. Our goal must be to maximize the productive impact of every defense dollar. Third, production.
▶ 0:25:54Mr. Cadenazzi: The dod must accelerate its scale industrial base production now in advance of major conflict. We must position industry to search in fulfillment of future demands. Progress against these objectives will make a measurable difference in our national security. In closing, I want to acknowledge the outpouring of support in my pursuit of this effort. It has been truly humbling. What has been equally gratifying is the unabashed commitment of individuals across government and industry to work together to make the industrial base better.
▶ 0:26:23Mr. Cadenazzi: We have done this work before, and now we must do it again. Senators, I request the support of my confirmation to reawaken the innovative spirit of the american industrial base and to ensure our nation remains a force for peace and stability through strength. Thank you.
▶ 0:26:41Chair Wicker: Thank you Mr. cadenazzi. Vice admiral pappano.
▶ 0:26:46Vice Admiral Pappano: Chairman wicker, ranking member reed, members of the committee, thank you for consideration of my nomination in the nnsa with the U.S. department of energy. Since first taking the oath of office in july of 1985, I have devoted my entire adult life to serving our nation as a commissioned officer in the navy.
▶ 0:27:12Vice Admiral Pappano: I thank president trump and energy secretary wright propriety -- for providing me the opportunity to shift course. I also want to thank my wife of 34 years, kate, for joining me here today and for her service to the nation as the commander-in-chief of the pappano household. Nothing I have achieved would have been possible without her love and support and her commitment to raising our children throughout my frequent absences. It is a testament to her strength and resilience.
▶ 0:27:39Vice Admiral Pappano: We are both proud of the adults ever children have grown up to be. My qualifications to serve include an extensive background in organizational management and being well qualified to manage nuclear weapons, infrastructure, construction, maintenance in a manner to enhance and protect U.S. national security and the military application of nuclear energy.
▶ 0:28:07Vice Admiral Pappano: I believe that if confirmed, my background, experience, and expertise will be well-suited to execute the duties of this office. I also believe deeply in the mission. Strategic nuclear deterrence is fundamental to our national security. Modernizing our nation's nuclear weapons stockpile, nuclear forces, and supporting infrastructure is a critical national security priority. My qualifications are founded upon the bedrock of a strong technical education with an undergraduate degree in engineering for the U.S.
▶ 0:28:37Vice Admiral Pappano: Naval academy and a graduate degree in nuclear engineering for the massachusetts institute of technology. Both my education and leadership were honed across a 36 year career as a nuclear submarine officer and a military acquisition professional.
▶ 0:28:51Vice Admiral Pappano: I have humbly led exceptional teams at all levels with the understanding that my calling is to make the people around me more effective and achieve greater outcomes than they otherwise could have achieved by empowering them, fostering deep technical confidence, and removing barriers to their success. As a submarine line officer, I completed rotations on five submarines across all classes, culminating in command of a nuclear attack submarine.
▶ 0:29:21Vice Admiral Pappano: I also served as military assistant for the secretary of defense charged with nuclear deterrence and nonproliferation policy. I served as major program manager for lifecycle sustainment of operational strategic and attacks of marines , oversaw a resource and developing activities of naval undersea war laboratories, a program for the exec of office -- executive office, and eventually served as printable deputy assistant secretary of the navy charged with overseeing
▶ 0:29:53Vice Admiral Pappano: The sustainment of all navy and marine corps weapon systems. This is all led me to this unique moment in time where if confirmed my expertise and experience will align well with the leadership necessary to enter the nnsa to overcome generational challenges and never programs of record to meet national security needs. I understand the complicity of the threats and the importance of the nnsa mission. I have an understanding of nuclear propulsion, testing, operations, lifecycle sustainment, and eventual decommissioning.
▶ 0:30:23Vice Admiral Pappano: I oversaw the recapitalization of our sea breeze to nuclear deterrent and worked closely with other stakeholders engaged in nuclear modernization efforts to include strategic systems programs, a dreadnought alliance, and other legs of the U.S. nuclear triad. I supervised performance contract of shipbuilders and collaborated across the U.S.
▶ 0:30:49Vice Admiral Pappano: Deferment of defense and congress to target industrial base investment and critical infrastructure, supply chain capacity, resilience, manufacturing technology, workforce attraction, recruitment, training, and retention. I believe that if confirmed, the lessons I learned on my navy journey would translate well to the nnsa journey.
▶ 0:31:10Vice Admiral Pappano: We must ultimately modernize the nuclear stockpile and supporting infrastructure without disrupting production activities to ensure the nation maintains a safe, secure, reliable, and credible strategic nuclear deterrent. I understand this is a no fail mission. I am honored and humbled to be considered for this nomination.
▶ 0:31:29Chair Wicker: Thank you both for your excellent testimony. At this point, I am required to ask standard questions that we ask of every civilian nominee, so if both of you would turn your microphones on and just answer yes or no into the microphone. Will you adhere to national laws?
▶ 0:31:58Chair Wicker: Have you assumed any duties or taken any actions that would appear to presume the outcome of the confirmation process? Exercising our legislative and oversight responsibilities makes it important that this committee and subcommittees and other appropriate committees of congress receive testimony, briefings, records, and other information from the executive branch on a timely basis. Do you agree if confirmed to appear and testify before this committee when requested?
▶ 0:32:27Chair Wicker: Do you agree to provide records, documents, and electronic communications in a timely manner when requested by this committee, its subcommittees, or other appropriate committees of congress, and to consult with the requester regarding the basis for any good faith delay or denial in providing such records?
▶ 0:32:51Chair Wicker: Will you ensure that your staff complies with deadlines established by this committee for the production of reports, records, and other information, including time in responding to hearing questions for the record? There may be some from this hearing. Will you cooperate in providing witnesses in response to congressional requests? And will those witnesses and reapers be protected from reprisal from their testimony or briefings? Thank you very much.
▶ 0:33:22Chair Wicker: Now we will proceed to questions. I am going to defer my questions until later and recognize for the first questions chairwoman fischer, who is chair of the strategic subcommittee along with senator king, has done yeoman work in this subject matter of nuclear security. Madam chairwoman, you are recognized.
▶ 0:33:51Sen. Fischer: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you, ranking member reed. Thank you gentlemen for being here today and for your willingness to continue to serve this country. Admiral, thank you for coming in. I appreciated you taking time and the conversation we had. If confirmed, can you tell me how you will work to ensure that nnsa weapons production remains on schedule?
▶ 0:34:17Vice Admiral Pappano: Thank you, senator. Yes, if confirmed, obviously the production is a key element for us to modernize nuclear weapons stockpile right now. We have done a very good job of stockpile management in a science-based manner and kept that over the years. We need to make sure we modernize facilities, making sure we do not lose the science in the process moving forward.
▶ 0:34:46Vice Admiral Pappano: I look at doing that across how we are modernizing our facilities right now and try to bring as much manufacturing capabilities as we can as we look at the manhattan era projects. How do we bring in modern technologies and can be much more effective?
▶ 0:35:08Sen. Fischer: Thank you. We talked a little bit about nnsa's 25 year enterprise blueprint, a roadmap to modernize infrastructure there, some of which as you brought up in our discussion dates back to the manhattan project. We will not be able to produce the weapons we need without the facilities needed to process materials like uranium, lithium, explosives that go in those nuclear weapons.
▶ 0:35:38Sen. Fischer: So anything we can do as you look at that modernization process, please let us know. Mr. cadenazzi, can you say your last name? I think the chairman mispronounced it.
▶ 0:35:51Mr. Cadenazzi: No, not at all. I heard it all. Cadenazzi.
▶ 0:35:54Chair Wicker: I take that back -- take that back.
▶ 0:35:58Sen. Fischer: I take that back. Both the department of defense and the nnsa have similar challenges with their industrial bases, and I believe we have an opportunity now to address underlying issues in a way that strengthens both the nuclear industrial base and the defense industrial base.
▶ 0:36:18Sen. Fischer: If confirmed, do you commit to working closely with nnsa and the department of energy on policies like increasing our skilled manufacturing workforce that would impact both of those industrial bases?
▶ 0:36:31Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I appreciate the question. The significance of it in terms of workforce issues and excess of materials we are facing across the industrial base. These are major challenges that both the nnsa and broader defense industry face and are dealing with. If confirmed, I am thrilled about the opportunity to speak with you about how and where the industrial policy office and I might be able to.
▶ 0:36:52Sen. Fischer: Great. What we have seen happen in the ukraine more has shown -- war has shown as militaries in modern conflicts expend munitions at a much faster pace than we ever expected before. And our stockpiles must be adjusted to account for this. And we must expend our munitions production capacity. We have to expand that. We have taken some steps to address it in recent years.
▶ 0:37:21Sen. Fischer: We had the opportunity to make those generational investments through the reconciliation process. In your opening statement, sir, you said production must be scaled now before conflict starts. I we with that. If confirmed, what steps would you take to accomplish that goal?
▶ 0:37:41Mr. Cadenazzi: I appreciate the question again, senator. The question of munitions production is top of the priority list and something I discussed with multiple senators on this committee. I am excited to work with the committee of confirmed on this topic. There are a couple of major things I think will drive us. One is printable and stable defense budget and program spend. The more we can stabilize that, the more the industry will align around it.
▶ 0:38:07Mr. Cadenazzi: A better understanding and industry of what the expeditions for surge capacity are will make it clear what the potential opportunities are for them and the level of capital required to increase facilities and workforce. But is a major opportunity for the department to articulate with the big goal and to say we need a lot more capability from you and we need to bring that on the investment to bring into that point. We need to scale the workforce as well.
▶ 0:38:34Mr. Cadenazzi: There are many issues to improve workforce capably sequester country. We need to grow those and take advantage of business opportunities as well. I am excited to help us address a well reported an obvious gap on this issue.are you familiar
▶ 0:38:48Sen. Fischer: -- Sen. fischer: are you familiar with the strategy?
▶ 0:38:54Mr. Cadenazzi: I am, yes.
▶ 0:38:56Sen. Fischer: Do you have concerns with the strategy or think there are gaps that need to be addressed?
▶ 0:39:00Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I think the strategy is solid given the expectations of the previous administration and the goals they are looking to achieve. I reviewed the external open source material in the into / des in the implementation pla -- open source material into the implementation plan. I am happy to work with you on that to make sure we meet the needs of the moment and the changing requirements of the new administration.
▶ 0:39:29Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:39:32Chair Wicker: Madam chairwoman, it may not be adequately staffed at the department, and that is something we will want to talk about. The way I understood how to pronounce the witness' name was he said it rhymes with snazzy. I now recognize my distant wished ranking member Mr. reed from rhode island.
▶ 0:39:54Sen. Reed: Thank you. I am just amazed you cannot pronounce a simple name like cadenazzi and pappano. Hey. This is amazing. Ok. Mr. cadenazzi. I grew up in brampton with all of the italians from each tree.
▶ 0:40:21Sen. Reed: The recent tariffs enacted by the trump administration will have a definite impact on the 80 defense industrial base, and if they are matched by reciprocal tariffs, that will exacerbate the impact on the supply chain and cost of material, so how we will assess the impact of the tariffs on dod and the defense industrial base, and how do you intend to work on the -- with the industrial base on this issue?
▶ 0:40:49Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I appreciate the question. The tariffs are intricate at a global scale, and I think you are right that there are impacts to the industrial base. However, I am not currently aware of any particular analysis regarding the particular impact on the aerospace and defense industrial base.
▶ 0:41:10Mr. Cadenazzi: I understand the purpose of the tariffs are a whole of government approach to reshape certain elements of the economy, manufacturing, access to materials, some of which we agree are good. Increased domestic manufacturing , increased domestic production are good things. Where we can achieve those ends, we should be pleased to work on that subject.
▶ 0:41:28Mr. Cadenazzi: If confirmed, I am excited to work with the committee, with you, and with the industrial base to understand what the impact on the industrial base will be, any negative impacts, and to prepare actions necessary to mitigate the effect of those negative effects over time.
▶ 0:41:42Sen. Reed: Another aspect of this whole tariff situation is that part of the way to accelerate the growth of our industrial base is to partner closely with our allies. We got involved with a heated discussion with canada and other natural allies about tariffs. I think that will inhibit their ability to cooperate and to integrate with them and to expand quickly our industrial base.
▶ 0:42:12Sen. Reed: What do you -- what view do you have on that?
▶ 0:42:17Mr. Cadenazzi: Our allies and partners on the industrial base level are critical. Incredible robust exchanges between companies and countries that enable us to work and operate and actually enable substantial weapons sales overseas. Last year, 2024's total exceeded $300 billion. Those relationships remain strong. I am still Mr.
▶ 0:42:43Mr. Cadenazzi: I am still m -- I am still convinced there is robust interest and I am interested in collaboration with shared part assemblies where we can close gaps and mitigate efforts and issues we have in the domestic U.S. industrial base -- defense industrial base by working in a targeted way with our partners and allies.
▶ 0:43:06Sen. Reed: If you see a severe impact of tariffs on our production in the united states, our industrial base, will you let this committee know rapidly?
▶ 0:43:17Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, of course.
▶ 0:43:19Sen. Reed: Thank you. Admiral pappano, thank you for your extraordinary service. Submarines are our key tier in the determinants in the nuclear triad. Thank you. You are going into nnsa right now. You have hit the highest demand since the 1980's in terms of nuclear weapons and nuclear systems. At the same time, you are trying to rebuild an aged infrastructure.
▶ 0:43:49Sen. Reed: But recent actions by doge in coming in and dismissing people and many times five days later hiring them back which is more disturbing, the federal workforce that the nnsa has is now down to 1650.
▶ 0:44:12Sen. Reed: They are perhaps at the breaking point that not only are the demands of doing the job but also the sense of will I be gone next week or still be here? How will you respond to this morale problem and personnel problem?
▶ 0:44:29Vice Admiral Pappano: Thank you. I am not apprised of the hirings and firings and going on's in the nnsa. It is my understanding to make sure of the needs and what is needed to accomplish this mission and recapitalizing our strategic nuclear infrastructure and getting back to weapons production.
▶ 0:44:53Sen. Reed: Thank you very much. Again, thank you for your service, both of you.
▶ 0:44:58Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator reed.
▶ 0:45:01Sen. Budd: Thank you for being here. Thank you to your families as well. In these unique and important roles. Mr. cadenazzi, we will just go with sir for you with the challenges of pronunciation. On april 4 of this year, china's ministry of commerce imposed export restrictions on seven rare earth elements and magnets.
▶ 0:45:28Sen. Budd: Giving our ongoing heavy reliance on china for many of these rare earths, there is an increasingly unacceptable level of risk to our ability to produce everything from planes to munitions. The united states should have created a rare earth supply chain independent of china a decade ago. Companies like vulcan elements, which is a rare earth magnet manufacturer that is fully decoupled from china and based in north carolina, they are attempting to do just that.
▶ 0:45:57Sen. Budd: But efforts need to accelerate and accelerate at scale. So in your advanced policy questions, you discussed your intent to leverage the dpa, or the defense production act, as well as the industrial base analysis and sustainment of the ibas to support private sector investment of our defense industrial base. If confirmed, how will you leverage these authorities to end our reliance on china for rare earths?
▶ 0:46:25Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, this is a critical opportunity for the country to go ahead and increase its ability to develop domestic resources and decrease our reliance on china within the industrial base. If confirmed, I am eager to work with this committee, with you on these issues on the applicant of dpa, and I have asked as direct opportunities to increase into the production chain. I have invested $540 million into these resource development over the past few years.
▶ 0:46:56Mr. Cadenazzi: We can continue that. We should. There are other additional capabilities with partnership allies to secure additional resources and increase capabilities, recycling. There are numerous guidance for us to take advantage of in this time where there is a sense of urgency about it before we lose the sense of urgency. We need to make real initiatives and effort to close the gap. If confirmed, it is an exciting opportunity and time to help with that.
▶ 0:47:23Sen. Budd: Thank you for that answer. If confirmed, will you commit to working not only with this committee but the banking community to make improvements to the dpa?
▶ 0:47:32Mr. Cadenazzi: Absolutely, senator.
▶ 0:47:34Sen. Budd: Thank you. Also primarily within the banking jurisdiction, but the department of defense and policy office in particular play an important role in reviews conducted by the committee. I frequently hear thoughts from north carolina including our military installations in north carolina with concerns about foreign investments specifically from china and their military installations.
▶ 0:48:00Sen. Budd: Do you see a need for the dod to engage on the topic of foreign investment?
▶ 0:48:07Mr. Cadenazzi: Thank you for the question. This is a critical topic and top of the list for the office currently. The associated authorities around identification of adversarial capital and adversarial companies, chinese companies working in the defense industrial base is a top priority for the office, although issues around of land and around military installations requires additional resourcing to look at.
▶ 0:48:34Mr. Cadenazzi: I believe those issues are understaffed relative to the demand to look at all of the transactions that are potentially high-risk. If confirmed, I am eager to work with you and the committee and the other committees to understand what we can do to resource the analysis required.
▶ 0:48:49Sen. Budd: Thank you. You mentioned additional resources. I think that is important. Do you see bottlenecks in the dod's engagement on this issue?
▶ 0:48:57Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I am not aware of any bottlenecks that currently exist. There is a significant number of transactions looked at and there is a believe generally that there is a need for more. However, I cannot comment specifically on what the scale of the gap is. If confirmed, I am eager to work with you to understand what additional resources would be required to close any gap relative to the exposure we are willing to tolerate.
▶ 0:49:22Sen. Budd: Thank you for that. Admiral, a question. What are your views on using modular micro reactors as a power source, and how do you balance their adoption with security and the concern about proliferation?
▶ 0:49:38Vice Admiral Pappano: Thank you, senator. If confirmed, obviously there is significant potential with micro reactors, what we can do with those in civilian or military application. If confirmed, I will work with the nnsa administrator and secretary of energy to make sure we are properly monitoring and overseeing what we would do with those micro reactors.
▶ 0:49:59Sen. Budd: Thank you both for your time.
▶ 0:50:02Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator hirono.
▶ 0:50:07Sen. Hirono: Thank you. Welcome to both of you and your families. I asked the following two questions of all nominees on any of the committee's on which I sit so I will ask you to start, Mr. cadenazzi. Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
▶ 0:50:36Mr. Cadenazzi: No.
▶ 0:50:39Vice Admiral Pappano: No.
▶ 0:50:40Sen. Hirono: Have you ever faced discipline or entered into a settlement relating to this kind of conduct?
▶ 0:50:47Mr. Cadenazzi: No.
▶ 0:50:48Vice Admiral Pappano: No.
▶ 0:50:49Sen. Hirono: Mr. cadenazzi, I championed a provision last year that created a program that focused on advanced manufacturing capabilities in the indo pacific tomorrow quickly construct unmanned systems and parts for ships and submarine repairs. This program is essential to bolstering deterrence in the region. Dod and the services have always struggled to coordinate industrial base modernization efforts.
▶ 0:51:20Sen. Hirono: How do you plan to foster greater integration across the services for this important program?
▶ 0:51:26Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I appreciate the question. This is a critical issue. Hawaii represents a significant portion of the organic industrial base and our broader industrial base. There are many tools we have two bring alignment across the industrial base initiatives that are there and the groups that are responsible for. The first thing is leadership. That is the wherewithal to go ahead and get into the weeds.
▶ 0:51:52Mr. Cadenazzi: The macro issues, I think thankfully there is a substantial number of authorities and resources made available by the congress over time for the dod to take action on these issues. At the micro level, we need to get to the details to understand where individual organizations may not be getting at with regards to the opportunities here.
▶ 0:52:10Mr. Cadenazzi: In particular, the new acquisition and industrial base executive order does a good job to highlight the acquisition personnel workforce training initiatives and things we can do to drive more understanding into the leaders at the technical level who need to make decisions to invest in the integration of the industrial base.
▶ 0:52:28Sen. Hirono: I hope that you will focus on this aspect of what we need to do because I know you are aware that in the pacific is the largest and we need to provide flexibilities when the ships are out to sea. They need to have flexibility to repair and do all the things that will keep them going. I hope that you visit hawaii and see for yourself the capabilities that we need to strengthen.
▶ 0:52:56Sen. Hirono: Again, for you, I have met with small businesses in the past as they struggle to comply with the requirements to meet the cybersecurity maturity model certification requirements. It is pretty complicated. And they have a hard time complying, as I said.
▶ 0:53:18Sen. Hirono: I am prioritizing a provision in this year that would require the dod to provide additional support and innovative tools for small businesses to ensure that they are aligned with dod's requirements, allowing them to save money and contribute to diversifying the defense industrial base that you are very focused on strengthening.
▶ 0:53:43Sen. Hirono: What are your thoughts on the provision that would require dod to provide more assistance to small businesses to enable them to work with you all?
▶ 0:53:51Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, this is a critical topic and has been a bit of a roadblock for small businesses over time. It is great you are bringing this issue up. Within the small business office, within the industrial base policy office, there is a program called project spectrum which intends to go to small businesses with the defense secretary to help them get the resources and understanding and analysis they need to accelerate and reduce the cost of their compliance.
▶ 0:54:18Mr. Cadenazzi: If confirmed, I am eager to work with you on this provision, your proposals going forward. Anything we can do to streamline the requirements while making a robust infrastructure critical for the department .
▶ 0:54:34Sen. Hirono: Should you be confirmed, as I believe you will be, I would like to work with you on how we can better strengthen this part of our supply chain. Because without our small businesses, many of whom are dropping out of working with the dod for a number of reasons, including complying with the security requirements, this is something I would want to be very specific in following up with you. One more question for you.
▶ 0:55:03Sen. Hirono: The covid-19 pandemic and geopolitical competition with china has exposed the deep fragility is in the U.S. supply chain. As you mentioned, we remain heavily reliant on foreign sources for critical earth elements. So what steps do you plan to take to address this significant issue?
▶ 0:55:25Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I appreciate the question. The issue of access to raw materials, rare earths in particular, is one that is particularly challenging. The office has invested over $540 million in the past on these topics. I think we need to accelerate and invigorate those investments but also align them to the most critical and impactful opportunities that will have the most impact on our most critical near-term needs, whether that is missions, lethality, or readiness.
▶ 0:55:55Mr. Cadenazzi: We should make those decisions and investments promptly and get them moving so we can see the impact as soon as possible. If confirmed, I look forward to working with you on that issue.
▶ 0:56:03Sen. Hirono: Thank you.
▶ 0:56:04Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator sheehy.
▶ 0:56:08Sen. Sheehy: I will start with you, admiral. You started talking but the manhattan projects. That was an era when government was the hotbed of innovation and that is not the case anymore. I was reading about china having a sulfate fission reactor online just recently, which of course is a huge leap in technology.
▶ 0:56:34Sen. Sheehy: How will you incentivize private industry innovation to make sure we regain or stay in the lead for nuclear innovation around the world.
▶ 0:56:41Vice Admiral Pappano: Thank you for that question, senator. Obviously, they are really leading on the leading edge of the technology. Also making sure we have the opportunity to coordinate with other business and other academic institutions to go along with innovations across the country.
▶ 0:57:06Sen. Sheehy: So for example, there is a number of smaller companies innovating micro reactors and having a very hard time getting access to processed material they can proceed with not only the development but the production of these items. How can you streamline the access of this material? Of course it has to be controlled and we have to vet these companies but many of them are vetted and capable of overseeing the material but have to wait years for a simple approval. How can you expedite that?
▶ 0:57:33Vice Admiral Pappano: I am not fully apprised on all the details within the nnsa on the process of that but I commit I will work with the nnsa administrator and secretary of energy and as necessary the department of defense to make sure I look at those processes and find ways to streamline those as appropriate.
▶ 0:57:49Sen. Sheehy: Our triad is from a bygone era. Our b-52s are coming up on 70 years old as far as the airframes. Our silos in montana for the minuteman is a half-century old technology if not older. Luckily the ceiling of the triad is healthy but we cannot build the subs fast enough. As you know. How will you contribute to the revitalization of the triad to make your are competing with an leading? China and others vice admiral
▶ 0:58:19Pappano: Thank you for the question, senator. I am completely aligned with you . If confirmed, nnsa as a key role of making sure we maintain the nuclear stockpile and as we move into production of new weapons, also looking for innovative technologies in ways that design weapons or weapons materials through advanced technologies for weapons production were quickly moving forward here.
▶ 0:58:45Sen. Sheehy: Mr. cadenazzi, I think in the past 25 years, we have all seen every lab accelerator innovation unit, lots of little tents stood up saying we will change innovation for acquisition. We will accelerate acquisition. We will get geared to the war fighter. All we hear is office assistant up money spent and very little progress was made. It is time for real progress.
▶ 0:59:14Sen. Sheehy: As we have seen across the world, in israel and the war in ukraine, defense acquisition has to turn the page and be fundamentally restructured so we can buy things faster, welcome more suppliers to our industrial base. Welcome them, not scare them away with unneeded regulation and compliance requirements like senator hirono just mentioned. What are the top three things you can do besides asked for more money to change the paradigm to broaden our industrial base and strengthen it?
▶ 0:59:42Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I appreciate the question. It was a pleasure to talk to you last week. Thank you for the time. When it comes to the acquisition reform process, secretary kendall said it best, there is no such thing as acquisition reform, just acquisition improvement. That holds true that there is a lot to be done.
▶ 1:00:04Mr. Cadenazzi: My particular focus in this area is on a couple of things, one is to leverage available authorities like middle tier acquisition, other transaction authority through acquisition of the -- through education of the acquisition authority. We need to make sure that is something driven by the department. Two is pretty triple stable budgets will allow us to mitigate some of the risks associated with how the industrial base and programs respond.
▶ 1:00:30Mr. Cadenazzi: They make plans, budgets change, and activities and the alignment around them have to change as well. Third is anything we do to decrease the level of regulation, the level of difficulty in getting access to work. You mentioned new vendors, new companies. We want that. We now have a time when there is a lot of new interest in that apartment and we should take advantage of that everywhere we can forget it confirmed, I am excited to work with the committee and you on that issue.
▶ 1:00:58Sen. Sheehy: In my era, it was the armored vehicles. Bob gates pushed those through. Same-day lot of lives.
▶ 1:01:08Chair Wicker: Here here.
▶ 1:01:10Sen. Sheehy: But it came to light. Let's innovate beforehand because they are the ones that will pay the price for our failures. Focus on the performance we need because we need to be ready next time. Thanks.
▶ 1:01:24Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator sheehy. Senator king, before I recognize you, let me follow up with Mr. cadenazzi. On middle tier acquisition needing to be into law, I trust you have read my act.
▶ 1:01:45Mr. Cadenazzi: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:01:47Chair Wicker: That enactment of that would be one of the very ways we could statutorily authorize these sorts of things.
▶ 1:01:57Mr. Cadenazzi: Absolutely, senator. I think it is a critical improvement on the process along with the various changes to other laws that are mentioned in it.
▶ 1:02:06Chair Wicker: Senator reed and I and the committee are hard at work on that and hope to do that quickly. Senator king.
▶ 1:02:13Sen. King: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Admiral pappano, I want to talk about two or three things with you. Capacity, proliferation, and speed. Are you aware of whether or not there is a hiring freeze at nnsa ?
▶ 1:02:30Vice Admiral Pappano: Senator, I am not aware right now.
▶ 1:02:36Sen. King: Capacity is a concern because the staff is down since january and I believe the hiring freeze is still in place, and yet as you testified today, you have some pretty serious response abilities, particularly with the upgrading of the triad. I hope that is something you can look into, follow up on, advocate for, having the adequate capacity to meet the responsibilities being thrust upon you. Is that something you can work towards?
▶ 1:03:03Vice Admiral Pappano: Yes, senator. If confirmed, I will commit to you I will have the men and women of the nnsa make sure we have the right amount of people, the right skill sets, the right training, and the right resources to accomplish the mission we have to do.
▶ 1:03:17Sen. King: I appreciate that. A piece of the responsibility of the nnsa that is not talked about all that much is proliferation and anti-proliferation around the world. The reason I consider that so important is our whole defense strategy is based on the idea of deterrence. If terrorists get a hold of nuclear material, deterrence does not work. They don't have a capital city to bomb. They don't care about dying. That is a true nightmare scenario.
▶ 1:03:48Sen. King: That makes nonproliferation, anti-proliferation incredibly important responsibility right now because of the fact that terrorist groups are still out there. Al qaeda, isis are on the rebound in many parts of the world, so I hope you will put some emphasis in real focus on the proliferation responsibilities of nnsa.
▶ 1:04:09Vice Admiral Pappano: Yes, thank you for that, senator. If confirmed, I will focus as well on proliferation and counter proliferation instead of getting bogged down on weapons production. The critical mission of the nnsa 's proliferation and counter proliferation, providing the tools necessary to prevent the spread of nuclear materials.
▶ 1:04:29Sen. King: And the technology. The development of technology to detect nuclear material. That would be a huge breakthrough. I hope that is part of the mission you will pursue.
▶ 1:04:40Vice Admiral Pappano: Yes, senator. Thank you. I am not fully present of all the programs and progress with proliferation but clearly the ability to detect nuclear materials and do nuclear materials forensics is a key mission of the nnsa that I will prioritize to go after the things you suggest if confirmed.
▶ 1:04:57Sen. King: Final question for you. As the chairman manchin, senator fischer and I have been working on this issue for years. I am concerned about the speed of the nnsa's development of the next generation warhead capacity. Because we are moving forward pretty fast on the b-1 bomber, on the columbia-class submarine, beginning work on sentinel, but all of that is for not if we don't have the modern warheads available.
▶ 1:05:27Sen. King: Speed I think is an issue you will have to look at. I have not been overly impressed I would say with the execution of production.
▶ 1:05:40Vice Admiral Pappano: Yes, thank you, senator. I understand your concern for urgency on this and make sure to move out quickly here. Part of that in my view is if confirmed taking a look at what the barriers are to that speed, making sure we attacked the barriers whether it is policies or processes we need to overcome bringing technology to bear, but anything we can do to speed up the process and make the effective people in the nnsa
▶ 1:06:13Vice Admiral Pappano: More effective in what they do through technology.
▶ 1:06:14Sen. King: I think the key word you used is urgency. Mr. cadenazzi, I don't have much time. I have a suggestion on the issue of small businesses which several senators have talked about. Call your own 800 number. What I mean by that is have a team pretend to be a small business applying to the pentagon and see what the barriers are, see what the requirements are. How many pages are the requirements?
▶ 1:06:41Sen. King: I found that very effective over the years to actually experience what a contractor, potential contractor would experience.
▶ 1:06:48Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, appreciate the point there. As I formally founded and ran and sold multiple small businesses, I know the pain and difficulty of working with the department of defense. Thank you for the suggestion.
▶ 1:07:03Sen. King: There has been a lot of discussion about workforce in this committee, and workforce is one of the key bottlenecks. We cannot ignore the fact that we can put billions of dollars into some area of defense procurement and get the people to build a weapon system.
▶ 1:07:23Sen. King: I think strong attention to workforce and to building the workforce and providing the amenities necessary to attract the workforce to our defense industrial base is going to be a big part of this job. It is not just a question of money. It is a question of making sure people are there to do the welding.
▶ 1:07:40Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I wish we could have some top gun maverick style movie to talk about how incredible the opportunity is to work at the shipyards in virginia and across the industrial base.
▶ 1:07:49Sen. King: Maine.
▶ 1:07:51Mr. Cadenazzi: Sorry, mississippi as well. I got you, senator. I think we will have to do the hard work of actually developing apprenticeship programs, looking at the scholarship programs. Now is the time to move ahead and making sure people understand the significance of these jobs, the economic opportunities to grow with families. The importance of this, we need to make people feel valued in these jobs as well.
▶ 1:08:19Mr. Cadenazzi: If confirmed, I am eager to work with this committee, with you, and the rest of the congress on programs that will actually accelerate and increase the movement of workforce into the defense industrial base.
▶ 1:08:29Sen. King: Thank you very much.I will just leave you with one phrase. Consistent demand signal. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:08:36Chair Wicker: Well, that is a good phrase. But also, senator king, you said to vice admiral pappano, and it applies to both witnesses, the word urgency needs to have meaning right now. So thank you very much for that line of questioning. Senator shaheen.
▶ 1:09:01Sen. Shaheen: Good morning. Welcome to both of you. Thank you for being here and your willingness to continue to serve the country. I could not agree more with you, Mr. cadenazzi, on your response to senator king's question about workforce. I think the maine and new hampshire delegations are proud of our naval shipyard and the mission of the workforce there and the good work they do.
▶ 1:09:29Sen. Shaheen: I think you explain very well what the benefits are of working on the civilian side of the defense industry.
▶ 1:09:36Chair Wicker: And of course, you got your education in the state of mississippi, senator.
▶ 1:09:43Sen. Shaheen: I did, so I know how important mississippi is to shipbuilding too, senator wicker. You said in your remarks you were not aware of the impact of the tariffs on the aerospace industry. I just wanted to give you an example. Last week I visited a company called new hampshire ball bearings that makes bearings for the aerospace industry.
▶ 1:10:11Sen. Shaheen: So it does inlet of its business with the defense industry -- so it does a lot of its business with the defense industry, and what they told me is as a result of the steel tariffs, the uncertainty around that, the president's intent to raise the tariffs on steel that their lead time for steel has gone from 20 weeks to two and a half years.
▶ 1:10:32Sen. Shaheen: So think about that, what the impact of that is going to be on our defense industrial base and our ability to supply the military with what they need, which has already been under stress as we have seen as a result of the war in ukraine.
▶ 1:10:48Sen. Shaheen: So I just want to follow up on senator reed's question about how you expect to keep track of the impact of these kinds of tariffs on the defense industrial base, and how do you think about addressing the shortage of steel, which is not just a shortage in terms of capacity but they said as a result of the tariffs?
▶ 1:11:11Sen. Shaheen: Their domestic suppliers have increased prices significantly because they are able to do that because of the tariffs, and they cannot get supply from our allies, which they have been doing, which helped with both the cost and the availability. So how do you think about addressing that problem? Because that is significant.
▶ 1:11:30Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, I appreciate the question and your concerns on this issue. As I mentioned before, the tariff issue is significant and obviously will have an impact in multiple ways. I am not aware of any analysis produced on this. I assume they have but I am not aware of that so I would go ahead and provide an assessment of what the department believes the impact is in the industrial base right now. It will likely be wide and varied.
▶ 1:11:58Mr. Cadenazzi: There are pockets where they are benefiting from it and there are pockets where you are highlighting one of the challenges.
▶ 1:12:02Sen. Shaheen: Not to interrupt, but I think the concern is, is there an analysis that has been done? And where does that start? And what are we seeing as a result of these tariffs over time? It is not clear to me that analysis has been done. Certainly I am not aware that this committee has seen any of that work. So that is number one.we need to see that.
▶ 1:12:26Sen. Shaheen: Secondly, we need to track to feel like we are responding to the shortcomings we are seeing as the result of policies so that we are not further handicapping our defense industry.
▶ 1:12:38Mr. Cadenazzi: Senator, if confirmed, I commit to come back and which are to provide whatever analysis has been done and if there is particular request for the type of analysis on the mix of companies you are talking about or in particular a technology area, I am happy to work with you on those issues as well. That is quickly important. Regarding the steel issues specifically, I am not aware of any particular analysis of the impact of tariffs on steel or the industrial base.
▶ 1:13:05Mr. Cadenazzi: The industrial base consumes a lot of domestic steel so there is a unique characteristic to that with other industries. If confirmed, I am eager to discuss this issue with you to mitigate the issues on the industrial base.
▶ 1:13:15Sen. Shaheen: Good, thank you. I appreciate that.
▶ 1:13:18Chair Wicker: There is a pretty good answer, isn't it, senator shaheen?
▶ 1:13:22Sen. Shaheen: The proof is in the pudding. Admiral pappano, since the invasion of ukraine, this committee has supported the national nuclear security administration's cooperation with ukraine by monitoring russian occupy power plants in ukraine and training the ukrainians to detect radiation releases.
▶ 1:13:47Sen. Shaheen: This cooperation has been really important as we look at russian attacks on the largest power plant in europe. Can you speak to the importance of the cooperation with ukraine during ongoing negotiations?
▶ 1:14:05Mr Pappano: I did not know all the details of the cooperation right now but I would make sure that nsa provided the tools and capabilities to go through those verifications so that we can monitor and verify whatever we need to do as far as what the administration desires.
▶ 1:14:26Sen. Shaheen: Thank you.
▶ 1:14:28Chair Wicker: Senator warren.
▶ 1:14:32Sen. Warren: Thank you. Artificial intelligence presents big opportunities and big wrists -- risks. Federal agencies should benefit from a I elevation but instead a few companies could lock the government into expensive and high competitive products.
▶ 1:14:56Sen. Warren: I am working with senator schmitt on this and last month the office of management and budget published guidance to ensure that the government can benefit from a competitive american ai marketplace. The guidance does not apply to dod but is important to dod given the billions of dollars that d.o.d. Will give out in ai and cloud contracts.
▶ 1:15:23Sen. Warren: I want to run through some of the license -- lessons from the guidance. Number one, interoperability. A big contractor could build its cloud tool so that it works only with its own ai which would trap d.o.d. Into paying skyhigh prices potentially for subpar products. That is why omb encouraged agencies to require ai tools to work with other companies products.
▶ 1:15:53Sen. Warren: Mr. cadenazzi, do you agree that d.o.d. Would benefit from interoperability?
▶ 1:15:58Mr. Cadenazzi: I appreciate the question. I am not familiar with the term as defined in that report but in general, yes. It is a great thing for the department.
▶ 1:16:09Sen. Warren: I will take that as a yes, you think the product should be able to work with other products.
▶ 1:16:15Mr. Cadenazzi: More connectivity is a good thing in general.
▶ 1:16:19Sen. Warren: We are at the same place. Data use. The biggest ai contractors can also stomp out competition by training their models on troves of government data so that smaller companies do not stand a chance. This is a disaster for competition and a disaster for data security. Data on the location of our service members or on d.o.d. Contracts should not be anywhere near a commercial ai model.
▶ 1:16:53Sen. Warren: The white house is clear. It says contractors should not use government data to train publicly or commercially available ai algorithms without an agency's permission. Mr. cadenazzi, do you agree it is important for both competition and data security to limit contractors from training their government tools -- commercial tools on government data?
▶ 1:17:19Mr. Cadenazzi: I appreciate the question. Yes, I want to make sure we follow the law.
▶ 1:17:25Sen. Warren: That is not my question. This is not a question of law. It is a question of what we should be doing in our acquisitions at d.o.d..
▶ 1:17:34Mr. Cadenazzi: I'm not familiar with the white house guidance on this issue but it seems to make sense as you laid it out and I would be supportive of discussing that with you if confirmed.
▶ 1:17:43Sen. Warren: Government contracts were ai and cloud tools should prevent lock in and protect government data. That's all we are talking about. Senator schmitt and I have a bipartisan bill to make sure that d.o.d. Contracts do exactly that. Next week we will reintroduce the protecting cloud and ai competition and defense act to make sure that billions of dollars in d.o.d.
▶ 1:18:10Sen. Warren: Contracts go toward fueling innovation in ai and cloud technology and not just helping the biggest companies get even bigger. Let me ask you Mr. cadenazzi, will you commit to working with me and senator schmitt to stop anti-competitive practices by big tech that could threaten our national security?
▶ 1:18:32Mr. Cadenazzi: Artificial intelligence represents the most promising capabilities for transformation of productivity impact to the department. I would be thrilled to work with you and senator schmitt on this issue.
▶ 1:18:45Sen. Warren: Of the working -- I look forward to working with you and senator schmitt.
▶ 1:18:53Chair Wicker: The senator yields back her time. Senator kaine, I have not asked my questions yet. >> I am not in a rush.
▶ 1:19:09Sen. Kaine: Thank you and congratulations to the nominees. I want to begin by putting breaking news on the record. This morning pete hegseth tweeted, this morning I proudly ended the women peace and security program inside the department of defense. It is yet another divisive social justice initiative that over burns are commanders and troops distracting from our core task of war fighting.
▶ 1:19:38Sen. Kaine: Wps is a united nations program pushed by feminists. Politicians found over it. Troops hated. D.o.d. Will fight to end the program for our next budget. Good riddance. I wanted to read this because that tweet contains some glaring inaccuracies that are far beneath the standard we should expect from the department of defense.
▶ 1:20:07Sen. Kaine: First, wps is yet another woke biden initiative. Wps was passed unanimously in 2017 when donald trump was president. It is our secretary of defense not know the difference between a bill that was passed by the biden administration and one that was passed in the trump administration? Secondly, politicians fawn over it. Troops hate it.
▶ 1:20:37Sen. Kaine: I refer to the hearing this committee had to consider the confirmation of general kane and I read the following testimony, "congratulations on your nomination. One of the things that we discussed was the women peace and security legislation signed by president trump during his first term that mandates that women should be at the table in conflict resolution and peace negotiations and at d.o.d.
▶ 1:21:00Sen. Kaine: That means having women involved in security operation programs that give us an advantage over our adversaries like china and russia. Are you familiar with the program?" he said, I am, yes. Do you believe it is a dei program? Can you provide some examples of the operational advantage that from this perspective this gives us?
▶ 1:21:33Sen. Kaine: Senator, I cannot give you my personal recollections from being deployed. Before there were these precursors of the program, when we would go out into the field after concluding an assault we would have female members who would speak to those women and children who were on the objective and help us to understand the human terrain in new ways. Wps is a program that really helps us to understand the full spectrum of challenges that are in front of us.
▶ 1:22:04Sen. Kaine: From the testimony of our confirmed chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. If the secretary of defense cannot understand the difference between a biden initiative and a trump administration and what the secretary of defense claims that troops hate something that the newly confirmed head of the joint chiefs of staff appreciates, I have to add this to the 1000 questions to the -- to the 1000 questions I have
▶ 1:22:36Sen. Kaine: Already raised. I have stunned at the lack of professionalism that this tweet demonstrates. We aired out pretty carefully at this hearing the secretaries only antipathy to women in service and his own track record of poor treatment of women in leadership. The fact that he does not like wps is one thing.
▶ 1:22:53Sen. Kaine: But the fact that he claims it is a biden initiative when it is not, it was supported unanimously by a republican majority senate and the troops hate it when the chief of staff testifies to its value, I find shocking. Now I will go to my questions.
▶ 1:23:17Sen. Kaine: You pointed out that you were not fully up to speed but the gao did a report that I imagine you are aware of and it discussed challenges in recruiting and retaining staff because of intense competition with other industries and other agencies. This is a skill set that is in high demand.
▶ 1:23:41Sen. Kaine: If confirmed, how would you approach that challenge making sure that we keep the good talent we have and continue to attract new talent in an important place where there is a lot of competition in the private and public sector?
▶ 1:23:53Mr. Pappano: If confirmed I will certainly advocate for the men and women of nnsa everywhere from skill training up to weapons designers and nuclear physicists. It is hard to find those people and we need to make sure we are doing everything we can to attract, recruit and retain those people as part of national security.
▶ 1:24:19Mr. Pappano: That could start everywhere from looking at programs in science technology engineering and make mounts -- and mathematics. Getting people interested in that line of work and developing that going forward.
▶ 1:24:35Sen. Kaine: You probably have the tools you need but please let the committee know if there are additional tools you need to meet that mission.
▶ 1:24:44Adm. Pappano: Thank you. I look forward to working with the committee.
▶ 1:24:48Sen. Kaine: I yield back by taking the 38 seconds.
▶ 1:24:54Chair Wicker: The gentleman has nothing to yield back. Senator rosen.
▶ 1:25:00Sen. Rosen: Thank you. I want to move on to small business defense production because there are a number of small businesses and technology start ups with capabilities to support our national security. These companies are highly innovative but they face significant challenges when it comes to breaking into the defense marketplace which remains dominated by large contractors.
▶ 1:25:28Sen. Rosen: The current acquisition system is too slow, too complex and too risk-averse to effectively engage with nontraditional players. Mr. cadenazzi if confirmed, how will you address the systemic barriers in order to create a more open and competitive environment for small businesses emerging technology firms including those like in my state of nevada that have not traditionally played a large role in defense and more specifically, what are your priorities for streamlining the acquisition pathways for these
▶ 1:25:58Sen. Rosen: Companies and how can the department of defense better leverage innovation across all 50 states as part of a broader industrial base strategy?
▶ 1:26:07Mr. Cadenazzi: Thank you for bringing this topic up. The small business office within the industrial base policy office is a critical element of what the department brings. A focus on small businesses. They represent some of the most dynamic and innovative parts of the economy, particularly in places where technology is the most exciting. Artificial intelligence, quantum mechanics and advanced manufacturing. This is a priority for the department and for me.
▶ 1:26:38Mr. Cadenazzi: I want to understand more about what the industrial base policy office is programs are doing, what effect they are having. Things like small business innovative research, the apex accelerators which exist across the country to go ahead and provide access to small to understand the department. If confirmed, I will learn more about those capabilities, the resourcing and what we can do to accelerate the impact over time.
▶ 1:27:09Mr. Cadenazzi: >> thank you. I will move on to nuclear testing. Of course, I asked a similar line of questioning to congressman williams at his confirmation hearing. Given your potential role as deputy, I will ask you the same questions.
▶ 1:27:28Mr. Cadenazzi: As I'm sure you know, the nevada national security site nass, formerly known as the nevada test site, from 1951 to 1992 with 100 atmospheric tests and 828 underground tests. I lived there during those times and the ground was shaking like nobody's business once per month.
▶ 1:27:58Mr. Cadenazzi: This era left lasting radioactive contamination across millions of anchors -- acres, exposed countless people to dangerous radiation. It is an outcome we cannot repeat. Since the 1990 two testing moratorium was signed by president george bush, they have used critical experiments to ensure the safety, reliability and effectiveness of the nuclear stockpile without the need for explosive testing. For decades this approach has received annual validation from the heads of national labs, U.S.
▶ 1:28:30Mr. Cadenazzi: Strategic command, the secretaries of defense and energy including throughout the first trump administration. Despite this consensus some have advocated for a return to explosive nuclear testing. Can you imagine? Experts warn such a move can encourage countries like russia and china to follow suit, risking a new dangerous and unnecessary nuclear arms race. I will ask you to answer yes or no same for the congressman.
▶ 1:29:02Mr. Cadenazzi: If president trump saw your counsel on restarting explosive testing, would you advise the resumption of nuclear testing?
▶ 1:29:11Adm. Pappano: Based on what you suggested, thank you for the question but if confirmed, I would not advocate for nuclear testing based on the data we have. Our extensive capabilities and the annual verification.
▶ 1:29:22Sen. Rosen: The second question is given that the stockpile has been annually certified as safe and effective without explosive testing, do you see any tactical or strategic justification for resuming explosive testing?
▶ 1:29:37Adm. Pappano: Thank you. Based on the amount of explosive data we have, subcritical testing capabilities at the test site among other places, I do not see a need to return to explosive testing. I will not advocate for that.
▶ 1:29:55Sen. Rosen: I just want to ask you if you will commit to prioritizing scientific advancements in stockpile stewardship.
▶ 1:30:06Adm. Pappano: Secretary of defense I look forward to enhancing anything we can do -- if confirmed, I look forward to enhancing anything we can do.
▶ 1:30:16Chair Wicker: Senator rosen, I understand that the massive casino hotels back in the day would alert their customers and patriots as to when -- customers and patrons as to when a nuclear explosion was going to happen so that they can watch. Is that correct?
▶ 1:30:41Sen. Rosen: Yes and there are bars and lounges called the atomic lounge and other things. You are absolutely right. I would love to lead a delegation to las vegas to see the test site where they go underground but also to the atomic testing museum that gives you all the history of what they did. It is quite informative. The test site, going down underground in the tunnel where they do the tests. It is pretty amazing.
▶ 1:31:10Chair Wicker: It might be educational, senator reed. The publicity surrounding a congressional delegation trip to las vegas would be a negative we could land at the air force base --
▶ 1:31:31Sen. Kaine: We could land at the air force base. You never even have to -- we will put the curtains down. You don't even have to see the las vegas strip.
▶ 1:31:42Chair Wicker: Do not go overboard. Senator kelly.
▶ 1:31:48Sen. Kelly: The you mentioned is in las vegas.
▶ 1:31:55Sen. Rosen: It is at the university.
▶ 1:31:59Sen. Kelly: I highly recommend it. Vice admiral pappano and Mr. cadenazzi, am I pronouncing that correctly? Thank you both for being here. Mr. cadenazzi I would like to understand your plan to enhance our critical mineral stockpiles.
▶ 1:32:22Sen. Kelly: We import nearly 100% of our cobalt, sulfate despite cobalt playing a critical role in the defense technologies. Meanwhile china produces more than 70% of the world's refined cobalt. It is imperative that we bolster our domestic critical mineral supply chain.
▶ 1:32:45Sen. Kelly: Given the national security importance of these rare minerals such as cobalt, how do you plan on supporting american cobalt and other critical mineral processing companies?
▶ 1:32:54Mr. Cadenazzi: I appreciate the question. I have spent more time looking athe periodic table of elements now since my chemistry class in high school. China has weaponized the table of elements and secured access to minerals that we require. The office estimated investments totaling 540 million dollars in various capabilities processing source materials over the past several years.
▶ 1:33:22Mr. Cadenazzi: If confirmed, I am eager to understand more about the issues associated with cobalt and the broader needs for access to secure critical minerals and ensure we are taking necessary action to ensure american requirements are met domestically with our allies and partners over time. If confirmed, I'm eager to work with you on that subject.
▶ 1:33:43Sen. Kelly: Should we build our own stockpile of critical minerals?
▶ 1:33:47Mr. Cadenazzi: Absolutely. We have a strategic stockpile now. I am not aware of the scale relative to the demand of the industrial base. If confirmed, I am eager to work on this to understand the scale of required investment and private capital necessary to secure access to the materials.
▶ 1:34:09Sen. Kelly: Admiral, in your advanced policy questionnaire when asked what your main priority will be as the principal deputy administrator, you responded that he would maximize the capability and capacity of nnsa. I want to follow up on this.
▶ 1:34:29Sen. Kelly: While I agree on the priority, I am concerned that recent freezes on civilian hiring and the firing of probationary employees across the federal government will hamper your ability to accomplish your priorities and ultimately the agency's mission. Part of that mission is to stockpile nuclear weapons and reduce the overall global nuclear threat to accomplish this mission.
▶ 1:34:56Sen. Kelly: The agency employs nuclear physicists and other professionals who cannot be mass-produced and are incredibly difficult to coax into federal service. How do you assess the recent firings and termination letters for nnsa employees and how that will affect your ability to accomplish the agency's mission?
▶ 1:35:17Adm. Pappano: Thank you for the question. That is a critical workforce. I am not fully apprised about the details of what is happening at nnsa. I only read about what I see in the news. If confirmed, it will be my priority to assess the workforce needs, the resourcing, the number of people, training capability.
▶ 1:35:43Adm. Pappano: Whatever we need to do to attract and recruit that workforce will be my priority.
▶ 1:35:48Sen. Kelly: Do you see that one of your first responsibilities if confirmed, is to make sure you have the workforce you need?
▶ 1:35:57Adm. Pappano: Yes, having the critical workforce is something I will assess and make sure I advocate for the men and women of nnsa to make sure they are resourced property -- properly.
▶ 1:36:12Sen. Kelly: D.o.d. Is at an unfortunate intersection where we need modernization. This modernization is a direct impact on the nnsa. Silver service integration is critical for the agency's mission. The partnership with the scientific and academic community is paramount for maintaining our imperative advantage.
▶ 1:36:37Sen. Kelly: How are you planning on managing the modernization project with infrastructure recapitalization efforts that spans civil and federal infrastructure?
▶ 1:36:48Adm. Pappano: Another priority will be to assess going forward to make sure we look for the barriers to getting the enterprise, look for opportunities where we can assert modern manufacturing technology to drive a sense of urgency in our stockpile stewardship programs.
▶ 1:37:10Chair Wicker: Thank you. Let me ask a question, a yes or no question to each of you. Congress is in the process of attempting to pass a reconciliation bill, much of which will deal with the defense department.
▶ 1:37:31Chair Wicker: Because of the rules that we are required to operate under, the defense reconciliation bill must be on specific -- un-specific as to how the money is spent and we are required in the rules to write recommendations for how the money is spent.
▶ 1:38:00Chair Wicker: Do you commit to follow unequivocally congress's spending recommendations in the defense reconciliation bill, Mr. cadenazzi?
▶ 1:38:12Mr. Cadenazzi: Yes.
▶ 1:38:14Chair Wicker: Admiral pappano?
▶ 1:38:17Adm. Pappano: Yes, I look forward to working with this committee.
▶ 1:38:23Chair Wicker: Good. Let's talk. We have talked about middle tier acquisition. This is something that my legislation would vary must address -- with very much addressed.
▶ 1:38:53Chair Wicker: I believe you told me you have read the act. If you want to expand on that.
▶ 1:39:05Mr. Cadenazzi: More praise for the act? Absolutely.
▶ 1:39:11Chair Wicker: I do believe, when you are confirmed, you will have some middle tier authorization already. I can say that senator reed and I are very much likely to put much of the act in the ndaa. I hope you will not wait for that.
▶ 1:39:39Chair Wicker: If you have tools such as other transaction agreements and middle tier acquisition, will you commit to going ahead with that?
▶ 1:39:50Mr. Cadenazzi: Thank you for the point. I am excited to use all the available authorities to be sure we are meeting the needs of the industrial base and delivering what the department needs. I am eager to work with you and the ranking member on this issue going forward.
▶ 1:40:07Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. I think you are going to have a staffing shortage. If you are able to do the things that we talked about today, people that look at production rates and limiting factors in the supplier base, is that right?
▶ 1:40:33Mr. Cadenazzi: Yes.
▶ 1:40:35Chair Wicker: You will need people to visit the production lines to assess whether companies are doing things the right way, spending money the right way and that sort of thing. Is that correct?
▶ 1:40:48Mr. Cadenazzi: Yes.
▶ 1:40:50Chair Wicker: You will need people who develop options when we ask questions like how to build more munitions. We have had testimony today that often we spend down on munitions more quickly than we intend to. You will need people to do that, are you not?
▶ 1:41:12Mr. Cadenazzi: Absolutely.
▶ 1:41:14Chair Wicker: Unfortunately the size of the office remains only a handful of people. It is my understanding, only five government people work on the defense production act. Do you know that number to be correct? Am I not well-informed?
▶ 1:41:29Mr. Cadenazzi: I am not aware of exactly how many people are working on the components of the policy this time.
▶ 1:41:35Chair Wicker: If that is true and I think it is, that represents a crisis which is why we have already required a staffing plan for these functions in last year's fiscal year ndaa, the statute under which we are operating today. Will you bring us this plan as soon as possible?
▶ 1:42:05Mr. Cadenazzi: Yes.
▶ 1:42:06Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Vice admiral pappano. What you are going to be tasked with will require a huge infrastructure investment. Am I correct?
▶ 1:42:25Adm. Pappano: Yes.
▶ 1:42:27Chair Wicker: Would you advise the committee as to how you will do that and exactly what you are going to need and am I correct, you will need more workforce by a great deal to get this done?
▶ 1:42:48Adm. Pappano: Thank you. If confirmed, it will be my priority to look across the plan to make sure we do not have to reinvent the wheel and assess how the plan goes forward, infrastructure investments over the next 50 years and figure out the barriers to getting that done with urgency whether it is policy, procedure, whatever we need to look at.
▶ 1:43:20Adm. Pappano: Obviously the workforce that goes along with that, infrastructure, stockpile stewardship and production.
▶ 1:43:27Chair Wicker: Senator reed and I have been told that this will be one of the largest infrastructure requirements the federal government has ever had. Are we will advise on that?
▶ 1:43:37Adm. Pappano: It seems a reasonable assumption to make. When we talk about recapitalizing the manhattan project era facilities will be driving those into the future.
▶ 1:43:54Chair Wicker: The public needs to be aware of this. This is most important. Senator king and senator fischer have taken the lead on this. Let's talk about cooperation with our allies on industrial base policy. There has been talk in recent years about this.
▶ 1:44:24Chair Wicker: Aucus pillar two production diplomacy in europe. The partnership for the indo-pacific industrial resilience. Most people think there has been very little success in that regard. Do you have an opinion as to whether we are way behind in that area, admiral?
▶ 1:44:46Adm. Pappano: Thank you. I am in line with president trump's peace through strength which is a willingness to work with willing allies to increase our overall strength. In my experience we have done pretty well with that so far. Some of the strategic nuclear deterrence in the united kingdom, there was a lot of history with that.
▶ 1:45:11Adm. Pappano: Obviously moving forward with the aukus accords and work is going on with pillar one and pillar two of aukus.
▶ 1:45:19Chair Wicker: There may have been some infighting within the department about this particular task. Last year we made it clear in the ndaa that the acquisition undersecretary owns these issues like the ones I have mentioned.
▶ 1:45:45Chair Wicker: If confirmed, you will oversee the little level -- the low-level deputy assistant secretary of defense designated to be the lead on this issue. Right now that position as may one dozen members, inadequate number, many of whom are not from industry.
▶ 1:46:15Chair Wicker: Will you commit to us and this committee that you will work on the issue of stagnation in industrial base integration with our allies such as the areas I have mentioned?
▶ 1:46:30Adm. Pappano: If confirmed, I will commit to you that I will work with this committee and partners and allies as necessary to drive this forward.
▶ 1:46:43Chair Wicker: Mr. reed, I believe we have covered. The questions have been very good. It appears to me we have the right folks in place for these positions. Does anyone else have anything? If not, let's see if I need to make any announcements. Are we good to go?
▶ 1:47:13Chair Wicker: Questions for the record will be due to the committee within two business days of the conclusion of the hearing, which is right now. Thank you.