▶ 0:13:14>> the gavel goes down on her hearing to hear testimony for anthony tata to be secretary of defense for personal -- personnel and readiness and catherine sutton to be assistant secretary of defense for it cyber.
▶ 0:13:35We are going to accommodate some senators who are enthusiastic about the nominees but also have other pressing activities in other committees. I will recognize senator brown, tillis and sullivan, in that order. I understand you will be introducing Ms. sutton this morning and you're not recognized for your comments.
▶ 0:14:03>> chairman wicker, ranking member read and distinguished colleagues, it is my distinct honor to introduce my friend and former colleague miss catherine sutton, now need to be the assistant secretary for defense for cyber policy. This is a role for which she is eminently qualified. I can think of no one better suited for this position.
▶ 0:14:28She is joined today by her husband rob mills, her parents steve and stephanie sutton and her father and mother-in-law steve and betsy mills. She is a patriot who spent her adult life working as a civil servant in the field of national security and is one of our nation's foremost experts on cyber security.
▶ 0:14:46A graduate of the university of stanford, she spent 15 years as an electrical engineer at sandia national laboratories working on assurance, cyber and nonproliferation projects. She transferred to the cyber and cloud and nsa portfolios on the house armed services committee before joining this committee.
▶ 0:15:10She worked as a professional staff member responsible for the cyber and emerging technology portfolio and staff lead for the cyber security subcommittee for over four years. She currently serves as chief technology advisor to the commander of the united states cyber command.
▶ 0:15:31Katie has closely advised members as we drafted legislation that codified cyber effects operations as a traditional military activity, it limited dozens of cyber commission recommendations, provided cyber, and the principal cyber positions for the services. I urge you to support the supremely qualified nominee to be the next assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:16:02Chrm. Wicker: Thank you senator rounds. Next, we will recognize senator tillis who will be introducing, along with others, Mr. tata.
▶ 0:16:19Sen. Tillis: I miss a lot of you that I have served on this committee with. I'm glad to introduce tony tata for assistant secretary -- for under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness. His 28 year career in the army included commanding eight hundred paratroopers in the 82nd and at fort bragg.
▶ 0:16:51Sen. Tillis: 4000 air assault troops in the 101st airborne and the joint tax -- task force in afghanistan. Following his service he made a quick transition to civilian leadership when he was named chief operating operator of the schools.
▶ 0:17:13Sen. Tillis: A year later he returned to north carolina to serve as the superintendent of the public county school system, the largest public school system in the state, and other highly political position. Establishing himself as an effective manager in both military and civilian worlds, tony was appointed by governor mcleroy, my friend, in 2013 to serve as north carolina secretary of transportation and let a 12,000 person workforce.
▶ 0:17:42Sen. Tillis: That is the same time when I was the north carolina speaker of the house and I saw firsthand how he dedicated himself to working with leaders to modernize the state infrastructure and past what seemed at the time controversial policies that put north carolina's infrastructure on the right track. Tony's prior experience as the senior pentagon leader equips them to provide steady leadership and insight to advance the administration defense priorities and initiatives.
▶ 0:18:10Sen. Tillis: His proven track record of managing complex organizations will be invaluable to ensuring our military readiness. Tony also brings unique experience as the leader of two of the largest public school systems in the country, explains that many military families will greatly appreciate and someone who sat on the personal immediate, his insight is what we need desperately. I suspect some of you will have tough questions about his past comments.
▶ 0:18:38Sen. Tillis: The thing I learned about tony is that he takes responsibility for his words and actions, learns from his past mistakes, which is the testament of a good leader and I think you will see that on display today. During his most recent service at the pentagon, he showed a commitment to professionalism and impartiality earning the respect of colleagues.
▶ 0:19:01Sen. Tillis: With global challenges on the rise, particularly from adversaries like china and russia, tony' a strategic insight and operational experience will be crucial in shaping personal policies that enhance our military readiness and competitiveness.
▶ 0:19:15Sen. Tillis: Chairman wicker, ranking member read, friends and colleagues on the senate armed services committee, confirming tony tata means giving a leader that will support military families, readiness and advance america's security. He has my full support for his confirmation and I look forward to the opportunity to confer him on the floor thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:19:49Chrm. Wicker: I understand your schedule is clear for the rest of the day and you will be staying with us. Thank you very much. Glad to have you back here. Senator sullivan is now recognized to introduce and make comments in support of Mr. tata.
▶ 0:20:13Sen. Sullivan: And before he leaves, I want to say how we miss him on the committee. You can come back any time.
▶ 0:20:21Chrm. Wicker: Show of hands.
▶ 0:20:25Sen. Sullivan: I will emphasize what he said about general tata. When you look at his distinguished record of service, it is rare that somebody covers so many different areas of service in america.
▶ 0:20:48Sen. Sullivan: It's military command as senator tillis mentioned, literally at all echelons of command up to one star general, including many combat tours, senior pentagon policy making, it is state government administration, department of transportation's are some of the most important areas of responsibility in our states.
▶ 0:21:13Sen. Sullivan: It is public education and innovation and it is private sector advisory roles. From my perspective colleagues, this epitomizes the breadth of experience required to oversee the department's most important resource, and that of course is its people.
▶ 0:21:39Sen. Sullivan: The department of defense most important resource is its people and that is what the undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness will be focused on. And that is what general tata has the most experience in. I also want to mention his civilian leadership shows a pattern of success. As senator tillis mentioned, whether it is leading the county school system.
▶ 0:22:08Sen. Sullivan: Senator tillis did not mention it is the 15th largest school system in the country where he saw firsthand challenges and opportunities facing our military recruiters, which is a giant responsibility he will have as undersecretary. And as I also mentioned come north carolina secretary of transportation, where he served as a leader on a very large, very important, complex organization.
▶ 0:22:39Sen. Sullivan: So in some colleagues, it is clear to me general tata's military and civilian experience in unwavering commitment to service members and their families, which again is going to be his primary responsibility as undersecretary for personnel and readiness, makes him an exceptionally qualified candidate and nominee to advance the department of defense's personnel readiness, retention and recruiting objectives and I
▶ 0:23:10Sen. Sullivan: Respectfully pass -- ask all of my colleagues to support his confirmation. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:23:16Chrm. Wicker: Thank you so much, senator sullivan. We will now proceed to opening statements. I once again welcome to our guests and into our fellow citizens here for this hearing. Thank you for the families and friends of the witnesses for being here today. The united states is up against the most dangerous threat environment we have faced since world war ii.
▶ 0:23:45Chrm. Wicker: I say that at almost every hearing we have because it bears repeating, and it is true and I am not sure that americans realize this or frankly that everyone in this town understands this. These challenging times, I am grateful that these two individuals and others have stepped up. Mr.
▶ 0:24:10Chrm. Wicker: Tony tata has been nominated to serve as undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness. If confirmed he will oversee total force management including policies governing personnel readiness, training and quality of life. His nomination comes as I say, at this pivotal time.
▶ 0:24:33Chrm. Wicker: The department is working to refocus on readiness following years of misplaced emphasis on diversity, equity, and inclusion. He is a decorated combat veteran and a retired brigadier general and will bring a war fighters perspective to this position.
▶ 0:24:51Chrm. Wicker: I'm interested in learning how he plans to build on recent recruitment and retention successes, how he helps to ensure high readiness standards with the operational reality is and how we work to enhance quality of life for service members and veterans particularly in health care and family support. Ms. sutton has been nominated to be assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy. Ms.
▶ 0:25:18Chrm. Wicker: Sutton has over two decades of experience in cyber policy, technology development and legislative oversight. Her experience in this committee has been helpful to this committee, especially during her tenure as professional staff member for the late german emhoff. If confirmed, Ms.
▶ 0:25:38Chrm. Wicker: Sutton will be only the second individual ever to hold this position, which is formerly created in march 2024 as directed by the fiscal year 2023 national defense authorization act. Though the role is new, it is very important. Ms. sutton would be the senior official responsible for cyber operation policies.
▶ 0:26:05Chrm. Wicker: If confirmed, she will be responsible for ensuring our cyber forces have what they need to stay ahead of threat such as vote typhoon, a series of chinese cyber activities that create opportunities for future attacks on america's critical infrastructure. Our nation needs the cyber force to be ready, trained and equipped with state-of-the-art tools and advanced technologies such as artificial intelligence.
▶ 0:26:37Chrm. Wicker: I look forward to hearing her views on deterrence in cyber space, how to bring technology to our cyber operators at a more rapid space and what additional resources and authorities she will need it to build the capabilities needed. So thank you both for being here and I turned to my friend, the ranking member senator reed.
▶ 0:26:59Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Mr. tata, Ms. sutton, welcome to you and your families. I also want to thank senator tillis, and at rounds for their introductions. You have been nominated to the under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness.
▶ 0:27:21Sen. Reed: If confirmed you would be responsible for all personnel in the department of defense including military family and child care programs, family and financial readiness, the dod school system, and working with the military services to ensure the health and welfare of the force. Mr.
▶ 0:27:37Sen. Reed: Tata, you're it nominated five years ago with a position of similar importance in the committee considered your nomination in a bipartisan way and declined to bring your vote pair president trump ultimately withdrew your nomination. I failed to understand why you would now be qualified to oversee millions of service members and their families as the undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness.
▶ 0:28:09Sen. Reed: As I told secretary hegseth and others at the nomination, I respect and appreciate your military service but you're public statements and behavior towards individuals with whom you disagree politically is I believe disqualifying for a position of this significance. Mr.
▶ 0:28:23Sen. Reed: Tata, your divisive statements are well documented peer prior to your last emanation come you publicly called president obama, "a terrorist leader" and said the director john rented should be executed.
▶ 0:28:42Sen. Reed: More recently you claim that there are "mutinous discussions within military ranks to sabotage president trump" and you call for complete pentagon leadership including firing all general officers in career civilian employees. This gives me concern that you have a misguided biased view of the military workforces you would oversee.
▶ 0:29:07Sen. Reed: Art service members and their families and civilian employees who support them come from all backgrounds and political persuasions. They come from every state and territory in the union. If confirmed, you would need to serve all members of the department of defense and their families, not just those who you agree with politically. Your public record and past performance in the pentagon do not give confidence in this regard.
▶ 0:29:32Sen. Reed: I would ask why he think service members and civilians who do not share their political opinions can trust they will not be targeted under your tenure. Similarly, after being pressured by elon musk and the two from north government deficiency, secretary hegseth announced the plan to fire 8% of the entire defense workforce, as many as 75,000 workers across the country.
▶ 0:29:56Sen. Reed: If confirmed, you will be responsible for managing the fallout from these personnel cuts at a time when we face unprecedented threats from china, russia and other adversaries, you will need to find a way to balance these reductions while also ensuring the department the resources it needs to adequately support service members and their families. I hope you can explain to this committee how you intended to resolve these conflicts of demands while ensuring the department of defense accomplishes its mission.
▶ 0:30:27Sen. Reed: Ms. sutton, I welcome your nomination to be assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy. If confirmed you would be the second to hold this position as it was created in the fiscal year 2023 national defense authorization act. You are well qualified for the role given your extensive experience with cyber command as a professional staff member of this committee and as an engineer at sandia national laboratories.
▶ 0:30:52Sen. Reed: When the committee committed, we intended for the position to give service secretary for cyber command, mirroring the current relationship that exists between special operations command and the special operations. If confirmed, it will be important for your office to not only support cyber growth but also to maintain control and oversight of the command.
▶ 0:31:20Sen. Reed: I would like to know how you plan to work with cyber com and to work with them and improve functions including objectives following completion of the ongoing two .0 review.
▶ 0:31:36Sen. Reed: I would note that I am concerned by president trumps recent dismissal of general timothy hoch who served as the commander of cyber, and has given no reason for his firing. It is said that he was convinced to fire him for no discernible reason.
▶ 0:32:04Sen. Reed: The administration has not selected a new director and it is unclear if there is any sense of security. -- urgency. You will need to be a strong partner and assist with improving authority in the department and I would like to know how you plan to address these challenges. Thank you.
▶ 0:32:27Chrm. Wicker: Thank you, ranking member read. Now we will move to the opening statements of our nominees. Mr. tata, your opening statement first.
▶ 0:32:44Gen. Tata: Thank you, chairman, ranking member and members of the committee. It is an honor and privilege to appear before you for the nominee of undersecretary of defense and personnel readiness. I want to think the president and secretary for this opportunity and confidence in me. I'm grateful for the time many of you have spent with me in recent weeks and thankful for the committee's attention to my nomination.
▶ 0:33:11Gen. Tata: I want to thank senator tillis and sullivan for the kind introductions. I am privileged to have in attendance a large group consisting of my wife, laura, my daughter, Dr. brooke tata, a proud civil servant with the veterans administration and her husband and former marine and army national guardsmen sergeant and my naval academy graduate brother bob tata and his wife, a
▶ 0:33:42Gen. Tata: Navy wife and mom and my niece and her husband and commander husband and their daughter and an active duty hawkeye pilot. My niece and her husband, my sister, a virginia school teacher of over 40 years, my mother-in-law helen a former U.S.
▶ 0:34:06Gen. Tata: Attorney for the eastern district of virginia for eight years, my father-in-law kevin, my brother-in-law and his wife and their son, and my son and his eight month pregnant wife and granddaughter all watching from home. Represented here by jimmy jones and a host of west point classmates, other family and friends from across the country.
▶ 0:34:33Gen. Tata: It was my late father and mother, both career schoolteachers who instilled in me and my siblings a desired and even an obligation to live a life of public service and to do so with honor and integrity. My father served 15 terms in the virginia house of delegates where he worked in bipartisan fashion to advance the best interests of his district in the old dominion.
▶ 0:35:00Gen. Tata: If confirmed, I work in the same spirit of a building and bipartisanship. My own life as a public servant began with a 28 year military career, including commands in the 82nd airborne division, wary to our recall and 18 hours to wheels up where the readiness standard for the hundred and first airborne division where my information and over 80 helicopters and aerosol troops in the mountain division followed by four years as an
▶ 0:35:31Gen. Tata: Education leader here in washington, D.C. working for -- and in raleigh north carolina and then as secretary of transportation for north carolina. Having participated as a soldier in the planning and executing training operations, exercises and or combat in the republic of korea, the philippines, haiti, panama, bosnia, croatia, hungary, kosovo, macedonia, iraq
▶ 0:36:02Gen. Tata: And afghanistan, my experience has well prepared me for continued service to our nation. Having commanded and led organization military and civilian consisting of 35 men to 25 thousand personnel, I understand the personnel and readiness requirements to defend our nation.
▶ 0:36:22Gen. Tata: Having served in the governor's cabinet and as a superintendent of the 16th largest school system in the nation, and respect the roles and rents -- responsibilities. As a leader across a vast array of critical government agencies and private businesses for the last 44 years, I have participated in some fashion in the development, integration and implementation of policies around recruiting, retention and transition to civilian life,
▶ 0:36:54Gen. Tata: Military health on and off the battlefield, k-12 education, unit readiness reporting, personnel and equipment readiness, family readiness, training standards, safety standards, particularly with respect to aviation.
▶ 0:37:12Gen. Tata: If confirmed, my initial goals will be to focus on these areas with an eye on aligning personnel follow suit national security impairment while increasing lethality in the warrior ethos. I will continue to listen, learn and leave as I build a team that allows me to make the best recommendations to the secretary and the president and I will always come as I have demonstrated over my decades of service make my highest priority the health and welfare of our brave men and women in uniform and our dod civilians in
▶ 0:37:45Gen. Tata: Contract force. I'm grateful for your consideration of my nomination and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you.
▶ 0:37:51Chrm. Wicker: Thank you Mr. tata . Now, Ms. sutton.
▶ 0:37:58Ms. Sutton: Chairman, ranking member and distinguished members. I want to thank president trump for nominating me for this position and secretary except for their support. I am honored to be here today. Thank you senator rounds for your kind introduction and my sincere thanks to the committee members for taking the time to meet with me this week in preparation for this hearing.
▶ 0:38:26Ms. Sutton: I am deeply humbled to be nominated as a second assistant secretary of defense or cyber policy. President trump's strategy of peace through strength requires a cyber force capable of defending the homeland, deterring china and strengthening burden sharing with allies and partners. For more than two decades, I've been focused on safeguarding our networks, protecting our information and data and defending our nation.
▶ 0:38:53Ms. Sutton: Before I proceed I would like to take a moment to recognize my family who was with me here today, my illness traveled from st. Louis to be here and have always welcomed me as part of their family. My parents are also here and have been my greatest supporters. I'm grateful for their unwavering love and profound influence in shaping who I have become today.
▶ 0:39:18Ms. Sutton: My husband, robert mills, who has been my steadfast partner through all life's adventures is also here by my side. Rob is a hardware engineer who spent his career also supporting national security programs and working to make our country more secure. I would not be where I am today without his constant support and partnership. And thank you to all of my friends and family watching virtually, I am grateful for all of your support.
▶ 0:39:44Ms. Sutton: While I began my career as an electrical engineer at sandia national labs, it was my parents, small business owners of a small cyber security company who inspired my passion for technology and instilled in me a sense of dedication, and service, and also the importance of secure computing and a strong password.
▶ 0:40:05Ms. Sutton: Over the last 20 years I've held a variety of technical and leadership roles across high-impact national security programs and nuclear weapons ace in the cyber and it prepared and allowed to execute the responsibilities of the assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy. I have successfully delivered programs lead multidisciplinary teams, and advice on key research and development programs.
▶ 0:40:31Ms. Sutton: Through these roles, I have developed a strong foundation and honed my abilities to manage complex government programs engage stakeholders, and integrate strategic planning with technical innovation. The cyber domain is complex and fast developing, requiring us to stay ahead of our adversaries, especially when faced with the threats posed by nations like china.
▶ 0:40:55Ms. Sutton: China's growing cyber capabilities and ongoing attempts to target our infrastructure underscore the critical importance of bolstering our own cyber capabilities. Although the united states has made significant strides in cybersecurity, we must act with urgency to accelerate the development and integration of new technologies like ai, that will ensure our continued cybersecurity superiority.
▶ 0:41:20Ms. Sutton: Throughout my career, I had consistently prioritized our work -- war fighters, ensuring the technologies and resources needed to accomplish the mission's trip for my early work on critical glare of weapons and satellite systems at sandia to the policy and championed of the professional staff member in the house armed services in this committee and most recently as the chief technology advisor at U.S. cyber command. I've been committed to providing our military with the best tools available.
▶ 0:41:50Ms. Sutton: I believe the key to success in the cyber domain is a combination of talent, technology and agility. A lesson I learned throughout my professional career is that our talented civilians in uniform and service members that have the right training and tools are able to accomplish great things. Secretary hegseth has made it clear that the department of defense must act with confidence and decisive action to reestablish deterrence and defend our homeland.
▶ 0:42:19Ms. Sutton: I've taken the guidance to heart and if confirmed will work across the department to eliminate barriers and accelerate opportunities in cyberspace. As technology continues to evolve, we must remain agile and adapt to the changing environment. Our cyber forces must be well trained, ready and equipped to excel in this dynamic landscape.
▶ 0:42:41Ms. Sutton: In closing, if confirmed, I look forward to working with congress and this committee to ensure the department remains supported and resourced to execute our strategies in cyberspace, deter our adversaries and defend the homeland. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:43:07Chrm. Wicker: Thank you very much, Ms. sutton. I will now move to standard questions which are required of all civilian nominees. I ask that you keep your microphones on and answer either yes or no as I asked the questions. First, have you adhered to applicable laws and regulations governing conflicts of interest? >> yes, senator. >> yes.
▶ 0:43:26Chrm. Wicker: Have you taken any actions that would appear to resume -- presume the outcome? >> no.
▶ 0:43:35Chrm. Wicker: It makes it important that the committee and subcommittees received testimony briefings, reports, records and other information from the executive branch on a timely basis. You agree if confirmed to appear and testify before this committee when requested? >> I do, chairman. >> I do, chairman.
▶ 0:43:58Chrm. Wicker: Do you agree to provide documents and electronic communications in a timely manner when requested by its committee, subcommittees or other appropriate committees of congress and to consult with the request regarding the basis for any good-faith delay or denial in providing such records #-- such records? >> I do, chairman. >> I do, chairman.
▶ 0:44:26Chrm. Wicker: Do you agree to timely respond to hearing questions for the record? >> I will, chairman. >> I will, chairman.
▶ 0:44:39Chrm. Wicker: Will you respond to requests? >> I will, chairman.
▶ 0:44:46Chrm. Wicker: Reprisal for their testimony and briefings? >> I will, chairman. >> I will, chairman.
▶ 0:44:55Chrm. Wicker: We have completed the required questions and now we will move to a series of questions and each senator would be allotted five minutes. Mr. tata, let's talk about recruiting qualified candidates for the military. One quarter of soldiers recruited in 2022 complete their initial contracts.
▶ 0:45:26Chrm. Wicker: Leaves were supposedly qualified and came into the service and did not complete their contract. There is a program in the army known as future soldier preparatory course to help prepare people that are not qualified to come in and participate.
▶ 0:45:47Chrm. Wicker: The data shows that fully one quarter of attendees don't make it to hold 24 months of service, failed to complete their requirement. And that is compared to 17.5% of recruits that do attend. This is of questionable success so far.
▶ 0:46:18Chrm. Wicker: How are we going to mitigate this? Is it true to your knowledge we are doing better but how can you answer the real concerns about the overall quality of recruits entering the service as well as their ability to meet their contract?
▶ 0:46:41Mr.. Tata: Thank you for the question. Right now, recruiting and retention are surging and so I would like to relate that out but to your point, we have one in four military age men and women that are even eligible to join the service because of medical disqualification or other types of disqualifications.
▶ 0:47:06Mr.. Tata: So to ameliorate that issue and to better get after it and recruit young men and women, I think we need better access to high schools and I think we need other programs like the one you are talking about that can help on board and to train and yet the ethos, the warrior ethos, the ethos of service penetrating down to the high school level.
▶ 0:47:34Mr.. Tata: I saw this as a school leader of 24 high schools in raleigh, north carolina, bringing in jr otc in using other programs to help recruiters access high schools. I think it is one of the key elements.
▶ 0:47:52Chrm. Wicker: It is not a recruiting tool but a citizenship builder for sure, is it not?
▶ 0:47:57Mr. Tata: Absolutely, creating citizens that understand the constitution and understand that we are a proud nation I think is part of the building that ethos that is we are trying to capture.
▶ 0:48:12Chrm. Wicker: We may ask you to expand on that on the record. This committee in recently has require the department to have more units of the junior rotc at high schools across the country and we mean for that to be followed. Ms.
▶ 0:48:35Chrm. Wicker: Sutton, how do we stack up against the aggressors we face in terms of bersecurity?
▶ 0:48:44Ms. Sutton: Senator, as I have watched the domain e evolve over the last decade, it is very clear our adversaries are becoming not only increasingly capable but also increasingly aggressive in the domain.
▶ 0:49:00Chrm. Wicker: With regard to china, how do we stack up?
▶ 0:49:03Ms. Sutton: The united states maintains the most capable cyber force in the world and continues to evolve the skill sets of our very talented men and women in uniform as well as civilians and contractors to support them.
▶ 0:49:17Chrm. Wicker: Who is gaining the fastest? Russia, iran, north korea, china?
▶ 0:49:25Ms. Sutton: China has grown immensely in size and is aggressively looking at the adoption of technologies like artificial intelligence to scale their capabilities. However, the united states has taken a lead and we still maintain some of the best technical talent in the world that are developing these technologies and the talent within our workforce to rapidly adopt that.
▶ 0:49:50Ms. Sutton: If confirmed, I look forward to making sure we have all the right policies in place and resources so we can continue this path of maintaining our superiority.
▶ 0:49:58Chrm. Wicker: Thank you very much. There will be further questions. Senator reed, you are now recognized.
▶ 0:50:05Sen. Reed: Thank you, very much Mr. chairman. Following president trump selection, you called for a purge of pentagon leadership, including firing all four-star general officers and senior career civilian employees. These are traditionally political positions and you seem to take a very political approach.
▶ 0:50:30Sen. Reed: In fact, significant firings did take place, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, departments of the navy, air force, army. The inspector general was fired. In fact, it is very disturbing because if you want to disregard the law, the first thing you do is get rid of the people who enforce the law and advise you on the law.
▶ 0:50:58Sen. Reed: These firings which you were prompted to encourage, have they cost us distrust and turmoil in the department?
▶ 0:51:13Mr. Tata: Ranking member, could you ask that last question. I had a hard time hearing you.
▶ 0:51:20Sen. Reed: Do you think this pattern of firings and talking about the loyalty to the president and not the constitution causes problems in the military?
▶ 0:51:36Mr. Tata: Ranking member, thank you for the opportunity to have this conversation. Those remarks I made were in direct response to a cnn report, credible report, that discussed several admirals and generals talking about how to resist president trump's civilian leadership. I was actually talking about defending the constitution.
▶ 0:52:04Mr. Tata: The admirals and generals don't get to choose which laws, or lawful orders that they follow pretty admirals and generals work for the civilian leadership and that civilian leadership is codified in article two of our constitution.
▶ 0:52:22Mr. Tata: So I found it disturbing, to say the least, that we had admirals and generals reported by cnn discussing resisting the president, resisting the president's vision and directives, lawful orders, and I also found it disturbing that the chairman and the chiefs did not come out and say that this is unacceptable. This is not happening.
▶ 0:52:48Mr. Tata: We are going to have a review to find out if the cnn report is accurate because we cannot have admirals and generals usurping the authority of the civilian leadership and certainly the president of the united states.
▶ 0:53:02Sen. Reed: Mr. tata, the key is lawful order. In article xi pentagon officials holding informal discussions about how the department of defense would despond -- respond if donald trump issues orders to bring troops domestically and fire large swaths of political staffers.
▶ 0:53:31Sen. Reed: The situation here, and it is still very realistic, is whether the president will ask the military to follow unlawful orders. You have someone who just said recently he may or may not use due process which is a constitutional right for every person in the united states. So if we are not having any serious discussion about whether officers will follow unlawful orders from I think we are failing ourselves.
▶ 0:54:00Sen. Reed: Let me quickly change the subject and that you were responsible for the department of defense education activity. They have announced banning books throughout the dod education system, including to kill a mockingbird. Would you urge that to kill a mockingbird be prevented from school? -- in school?
▶ 0:54:28Mr. Tata: My experience and education is that students need accent to a full range of viewpoints and opportunities to read and if confirmed, I look forward to getting into the understanding of what the media centers have and what they don't have.
▶ 0:54:49Sen. Reed: You are probably aware of the fact that when pete hegseth was in germany there was a demonstration by parents objecting to the purchase of books. In fact, I was astounded because I would never conceive of a defense secretary being opposed to law on a military.
▶ 0:55:16Sen. Reed: But the issue with to kill a mockingbird is the only conceivable reason I could think anyone suggest it be taken off the shelves is that it doesn't reveal aspects of racial discrimination in the united states and the whole effort to erase our history is very disconcerting.
▶ 0:55:34Sen. Reed: And I would hope as you suggest that you would go back and look very carefully at these banned books and programs and everything else because you received history is not going to be a strength of military services.
▶ 0:55:53Chrm. Wicker: Thank you. Senator cotton, you are next.
▶ 0:56:01Sen. Cotton: Usually mentioned that the recruiting has improved somewhat over the first 100 days of the jump on and that it great credit. It is still not what we need to get after years of decline under president biden. One thing I think has been a challenge is that we are not fishing in a big enough pond.
▶ 0:56:23Sen. Cotton: The military often cites the standards that exclude most young americans from service like academic standards, health conditions and other requirements. Obviously some of those are serious. Obviously we can have people with serious psychological illnesses are academic deficiencies in the military but I think we have gotten a little too strict on these things, especially in certain anecdotes I have come across or members of this committee have.
▶ 0:56:50Sen. Cotton: A young man who was prescribed antidepressants when he was in his early teens because his parents were going through a divorce and has not been on them for six or seven years. Or someone who may be injured a hip or knee in junior high at sports and is disqualified from the military because of that, after which they continued to play sports at the high school level as well could you agree we should try to find ways to expand the eligibility pool so our recruiters can be fishing in a bigger pond? Senator, I do.
▶ 0:57:23Sen. Cotton: One challenge is the genesis program which I know is done to help military get a better picture and catch all of the records that recruits have but also, I do think by exposing some of these things that are fairly triple -- trivial and old and have not let a lot of young people serve and the waiver process is very complicated.
▶ 0:57:52Sen. Cotton: Do you think we need to take a look at pushing the waiver authority down into the chain of command and recruiting battalions to make it easier for people with these conditions that clearly don't prepare the military service to get probably on boarded into the recruiting process and ultimately into basic training so they are not sitting on the sidelines for 68, 90, 120 days and finding other jobs elsewhere?
▶ 0:58:19Mr. Tata: Anything we can do to speed up the process is good.
▶ 0:58:26Senator -- Sen. Cotton: Some of my old friends who have served speak of the doctors around the country as seemingly be paid on commission by how many recruits they can disqualified from serving.
▶ 0:58:40Senator -- Sen. Cotton: You think we should take a look at the incentives the doctors have at the stations and also whether we have the right number of providers at the stations to move the recruits along so when a young man or woman expresses interest in serving we are getting them probably through the process and hopefully getting them to the shift?
▶ 0:58:58Mr. Tata: Senator, I agree with you.
▶ 0:59:02Sen. Cotton: Thank you. Ms. sutton, 30 years ago at the dawn of the internet, there was lots of rosy, optimistic thinking about how it was going to revolutionize the way human beings live and we are going to connect the world and no borders or boundaries and it will help us bridge our differences and 30 years later it certainly has done a lot to improve the way we live.
▶ 0:59:26Sen. Cotton: It is kept families connected against long distances, help people reconnect with classmates, get telehealth that otherwise may not have been able to receive but there are also a lot of things like sexual exploitation, money laundering, fraud on there as well. Is it safe to say 30 years on that human nature is the same wherever we find it and the greatness and frailties in the real world, we see reflected in the cyber world as well?
▶ 0:59:56Ms. Sutton: Senator, I think that is a fair characterization.
▶ 1:00:01Sen. Cotton: Is it fair to say that strategic concepts like deterrence and escalation that operate on the real world battlefield also play out the same way in the cyber world?
▶ 1:00:11Ms. Sutton: I couldn't agree with you more.
▶ 1:00:16Sen. Cotton: He think we have done enough over the last four years to deter our adversaries like china and russia and iran and north korea by being essentially in a defensive crouch in the cyber world and not developing offensive plans and capabilities that can hold at risk the things they will most dear?
▶ 1:00:36Sen. Cotton: Senator, when I led at santee -- india, -- at -- while we need strong defenses, we are not going to differ -- deter the adversary would defenses only and if confirmed I will work to strengthen our offensive cyber capabilities to ensure the president has the options he needs to respond to this growing threat.
▶ 1:01:03Sen. Cotton: Thank you. I appreciate that. I think it is so vital that the world knows that whatever any country can do to us in the cyber world, we can do as much and more to them as well. Thank you.
▶ 1:01:14Chrm. Wicker: Senator shaheen.
▶ 1:01:19Sen. Shaheen: Think, Mr. chairman. Mr. tata, I push at the service in your -- you and your family for the service you have provided. I am proud of the service me and my family, my father, husband, son a lot have provided to the country and the service we provide to our communities.
▶ 1:01:42Sen. Shaheen: But while I appreciate your service, I don't appreciate your partisan tweets, statements on fox news and other outlets. I don't think that is helpful to heal the divide in this country. I don't appreciate that because I am a democrat you say that I would support hamas or iran.
▶ 1:02:08Sen. Shaheen: I spent my whole career in the senate doing everything I can to fight hezbollah, hamas, and iran. And may we distant -- while we may disagree on how to do that, I don't think we should question people's motives were trying to serve this country. So I hope that senator tillis is correct that you have learned from those past statements and how inappropriate and divisive they are and that you're going to take a different approach if you are confirmed for this position.
▶ 1:02:37Mr. Tata: Senator, those were out of character comments. I regret making those comments. Five years ago I submitted an apology letter to this committee about those comments. I have 45 years of solutions oriented leadership.
▶ 1:02:57Mr. Tata: That was out of character and night regret it and I can guarantee you that I will be, if confirmed, a political leader that is trying to take care of the men and women in uniform and their families and the dod civilians.
▶ 1:03:10Sen. Shaheen: Thank you. In february, secretary hegseth announced a reduction of the force at dod to cut up to 75 thousand workers and on march 18, the acting under siri -- undersecretary of defense issued guidance directing that those facilities would be exempt from the current civilian hiring freeze.
▶ 1:03:38Sen. Shaheen: I visited the portsmouth naval ship yard last month with the new secretary of the navy and we were informed that nearly 150 personnel had received initial job offers from the shipyard but they haven't been able to begin their hirings because they have not been fully processed. So that means we have critical roles that are open.
▶ 1:04:04Sen. Shaheen: One of the suggestions for the delay was because of the work of opm, office of personnel management. If confirmed, you will oversee civilian hiring for dod. How will you work with your counterparts and other agencies to eliminate those kinds of bureaucratic holdups? How do we move those hires in the pipeline?
▶ 1:04:25Mr. Tata: Senator, I share your concern, particularly when this body and the president have also they want to build more ships. If we have welders off ramping through the deferred resignation program and a hiring freeze and other cuts of probationary personnel, if confirmed, and I get into the position, one of my priorities will be aligning national security and national
▶ 1:04:59Mr. Tata: Defense priorities like shipbuilding with personnel policy to see where the gaps are and how can we accelerate, for example, shipbuilding if we don't have welders to weld the ships. I imagine there are several different examples such as this and if confirmed, I look forward to immediately figuring out where those gaps are and aligning them with the national security priorities of this body and of the president.
▶ 1:05:30Sen. Shaheen: I appreciate that and I agree we need to look at all policies if we are going to address shipbuilding. Our shipyards do maintenance and repair on our ships but it is the same challenge and I think we need to better align what we are trying to accomplish with the policies that we put in place. Ms. sutton, thank you for being here and for your service to this committee.
▶ 1:05:57Sen. Shaheen: We have seen, as others have said, an increase in cyber attacks over the past few years and they have effected our infrastructure. Do you think it is important to maintain forward posture on offensive cyber operations against russia and among other adversaries that that is important to our national defense?
▶ 1:06:18Ms. Sutton: Senator, I couldn't agree with you more. One of the unique challenges in the cyber domain is the threats we face every day and it is not just from single adversary. It ranges from highly capable nation states like china, russia done to criminals engaging in ransomware for financial motives and to be successful, we are going to have to counter all of those and keep the focus on all of the threats we face.
▶ 1:06:44Sen. Shaheen: Thank you.
▶ 1:06:45Chrm. Wicker: Senator rounds.
▶ 1:06:47Sen. Rounds: To both of you, thank you for your service to the country. Ms. sutton, looking at air, land, sea, cyberspace, the next real conflicts we are going to see will probably start with cyberspace activity. If you are confirmed, what will your priorities be as the assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy?
▶ 1:07:15Ms. Sutton: Senator, thank you for the kind introduction this morning and for your leadership over the years on making sure the department is appropriately postured for cyber and ai. As you mentioned, the cyber domain is continuing to evolve and the one constant that I have seen being involved in this domain for over two decades is that the rate of change is exponential.
▶ 1:07:41Ms. Sutton: My top priority if confirmed in this role will be to address this change with speed and agility in the department. As you are aware, in 2018, there was a series of activities that enable the offensive posture that the department is undergoing today, both establishment by president trump of the process to do cyber operations as well as this committee's definition of traditional military authorities for cyber.
▶ 1:08:08Ms. Sutton: I believe we are at a point where we need to reevaluate those and make sure we are postured to be able to respond to the increasing speed of cyber attacks and that we are able to address the incoming impacts of ai. To do that, my second and third priorities will be to make sure we have the talent we need to understand this dynamic environment and that we have the technologies in leveraging them quickly to respond to challenges like ai.
▶ 1:08:43Sen. Rounds: With your knowledge, I can't think of anyone who is more qualified for the position you have been nominated for and I look forward to not only supporting but helping you to get in and get to work as soon as possible. Clearly, we need to be moving forward as quickly as possible with regard to our cyber capabilities, both offensively and defensively. I thank you for stepping forward once again. Mr.
▶ 1:09:10Sen. Rounds: Tata, part of the opportunity we have here is to ask questions regarding items of not only the regular army but of the national guard. I want to ask you a question about that but in listening to your comments earlier, I wanted to give you an opportunity to respond. I think the ranking member asked a very specific question regarding whether or not you felt that it would be necessary or would you consider banning to kill a mockingbird.
▶ 1:09:43Sen. Rounds: And I know as we work our way through these processes it catches a person off guard. I wanted to give you an opportunity and I think it was a specific question by the ranking member. I think if you are comfortable with your insert that is fine but I think that will become the headline of the day will be that you did not specifically respond to that. I wanted to give you an opportunity to quell that if you would like.
▶ 1:10:10Mr. Tata: Senator, I read "to kill a mockingbird" in school. I see no problems with it. I am not confirmed and I did not make the decision but if confirmed, I look forward to reviewing that and making sure that our students have access to a wide variety of materials that inform their learning.
▶ 1:10:35Sen. Rounds: I just wanted to give you that opportunity to clarify that answer.
▶ 1:10:37Mr. Tata: It is a classic and I read it in my belief is we should have "to kill a mockingbird" in schools.
▶ 1:10:46Sen. Rounds: Let me talk about the national guard, given their increased activity for both domestic and overseas missions, would you commit to fully funding their annual training requirements, even if it means diverting some resources from other locations?
▶ 1:11:04Mr. Tata: Senator, I think reserve and national guard training is paramount. I was executive officer and vice chief when we were at the point national guard and reserves to and from operation iraqi and enduring freedom where we are moving some 350 thousand troops either into combat or out of combat or training them.
▶ 1:11:30Mr. Tata: So having trained and ready forces is paramount and certainly fully funding that training is part of being ready.
▶ 1:11:39Sen. Rounds: Fair to say we can't go to war on the suite and list and engage our national guard today?
▶ 1:11:43Mr. Tata: I think that is an absolutely accurate statement. The national guard provides the combat support the reserve provides the critical logistic capability. The total for some excessively full.
▶ 1:12:02Chair Wicker: Senator hirono.
▶ 1:12:07Sen. Hirono: To ensure the fitness deserve I ask the following questions to any of the nominees. We will start with Mr. tata and then Ms. sutton. Have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?
▶ 1:12:32Mr. Tata: I have not.
▶ 1:12:34Ms. Sutton: I have not.
▶ 1:12:37Sen. Hirono: Have you ever faced discipline or entered into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
▶ 1:12:51Mr. Tata: I have not.
▶ 1:12:52Ms. Sutton: I have not.
▶ 1:12:55Sen. Hirono: This role is among the most consequential in the d.o.d. And you will enforce the policies that affect the military community from recruitment and readiness to healthcare, family support and structure and this position requires integrity, sound judgment and an unwavering commitment to serving all who wear the uniform and those who support them.
▶ 1:13:28Sen. Hirono: Your records give me pause and cause me to question whether you possess the qualities for this role. You have made inflammatory and deeply offensive public statements. Calling president obama a terrorist leader, calling islam or claiming that islam is the most oppressive, violent religion and promoting dangerous conspiracy theories. These were not slips of the tongue or out of character as you noted today.
▶ 1:14:00Sen. Hirono: They were repeated, deliberate and public. Moreover, they were coupled with statements that discourage senior military leaders suggest that a politicized purge of the court and suggested unlawful use under a suspended act.
▶ 1:14:19Sen. Hirono: If you have also been found by the army inspector general to have violated the uniform part of military justice which raises additional concerns about your adherence to military standards of conduct. According to multiple reports and letters including bipartisan opposition from military and former military leaders, your nomination is widely perceived as being driven by political loyalty rather than professional
▶ 1:14:51Sen. Hirono: Qualifications. You will be cast with leading a diverse workforce, one that includes muslim service members, women in combat roles, lgbtq personnel will be senior leaders who have -- who you have attacked or proposed to be fired. Given this record I question whether you would be able to lead with impartiality, dignity and professionalism. I have some questions for you.
▶ 1:15:22Sen. Hirono: The military must remain a nonpartisan institution guided by principles. You suggested using military forces in a domestic context by suggesting congress suspend posse, taught us. Under what circumstances do you believe such an action would be justified?
▶ 1:15:44Mr. Tata: I appreciate being able to have this conversation. I was referring to the border where the military are supporting the border patrol and whether or not that requires
▶ 1:16:15Mr. Tata: Posse, taught us, I don't know.
▶ 1:16:19Sen. Rounds: The mission provides no military training guidance to guardsmen and does not prepare troops for competition, the report found multiple units lost critical training opportunities due to deployments to the border, impairing operational readiness.
▶ 1:16:43Sen. Rounds: Wouldn't you agree that sending thousands of troops to the border not to perform military functions, performing civilian functions that one would hope that homeland security would be able to do. Wouldn't you agree that this kind of deployment and use of troops affects negatively our military readiness?
▶ 1:17:02Mr. Tata: Border security is national security. The inherently military functions that the reserve and national guard perform logistically to support the operations at the border I think are right in line.
▶ 1:17:21Sen. Hirono: We have a disagreement on that point because homeland security should be performing that function because we have had testimony that says that the military at the border is not performing the kind of functions that would enhance their ability to serve.
▶ 1:17:38Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator.
▶ 1:17:42Sen. Hirono: You testified that you will comply with lawful orders. I'm sorry. I did have a question about whether or not the president, president trump ordered protesters to be shot in the leg and my question is that you would comply with such an order.
▶ 1:18:00Chair Wicker: We will take that for the record. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:18:04Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. The president released the top line of his budget last week. We are looking forward to learning all the details in the weeks ahead. We know that the budget request for cyber operations was $14.5 billion, up $1 billion from the previous year.
▶ 1:18:29Sen. Tuberville: Given the rapid environment, do you believe this is sufficient to meet our security needs?
▶ 1:18:35Ms. Sutton: I share your concern with making sure we are balancing the resources available with the growing threat as you indicated. One of the primary responsibilities is confirmed is to review the budget and to certify that to ensure it is necessary. One of the things that is particularly unique about the fiber domain is that many other capabilities are a software capability.
▶ 1:19:00Ms. Sutton: Investments in this domain could have a very immediate response to providing options for the president and secretary and look forward to having the opportunity to highlight where we can better integrate this and perhaps shore up additional resources as needed.
▶ 1:19:14Sen. Tuberville: What role will cyber play in the future and the golden dome?
▶ 1:19:21Ms. Sutton: I have not been involved in the specifics of that discussion. What we see with all of our weapons systems is the importance of building an cybersecurity from the beginning to make sure that as we put these capabilities out, that we are able to defend them and that they are secure against what will be a very attacks surface that are adversaries will look to exploit.
▶ 1:19:48Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. I have reviewed your record living thousands of civil servants conducting complex missions. Is there anything you have not done? My goodness. Now you want to do this?
▶ 1:20:03Mr. Tata: I appreciate that comment.
▶ 1:20:06Sen. Tuberville: Thank you for your service. My colleagues are focused on some things you have said in the past and I find this interesting where the last four years a lot of democrats continue to call it fascist and it goes both ways. The previous administration fully weaponized of their justice system to publish -- punish their political opposition, profile grandmothers who fell into prison for peaceful protest.
▶ 1:20:36Sen. Tuberville: It goes on and on. Have you labeled people you disagree with nazis?
▶ 1:20:41Mr. Tata: I have not.
▶ 1:20:43Sen. Tuberville: Have you ever weaponized your previous officers to punish her political opponent -- punish your political opponent?
▶ 1:20:55Mr. Tata: No.
▶ 1:20:58Sen. Tuberville: As well as the 20% from the national guard bureau, phase two will be an additional 2%. The readiness will be leading this initiative. I am interested in your thoughts on this announcement.
▶ 1:21:12Mr. Tata: Anytime we are talking about the ratio, it is a good conversation. The secretary's comment about the number of generals in world war I and world war ii versus today is a stark reminder that perhaps we have become a bureaucracy.
▶ 1:21:34Mr. Tata: He talked about a methodical way of going about finding the structural realignment that will allow for the reductions he is talking about.
▶ 1:21:44Sen. Tuberville: Can we expect a complimentary effort to reduce the bloat at osd and joint staff which have increased respectively by 2.5 times while the total force numbers have decreased?
▶ 1:21:59Mr. Tata: If confirmed,, I will work with you and the rest of this committee on optimizing the workforce and the military. .
▶ 1:22:09Sen. Tuberville: Thank you.
▶ 1:22:11Chair Wicker: Senator king.
▶ 1:22:15Sen. King: Ms. sutton, you probably have as much knowledge of the cyber landscape as anyone in the country. How bad is it? I don't think the public realizes the level of threat we are under right now it will be the fact that it is happening right now in institutions across the government but also in the private sector. How bad is it?
▶ 1:22:43Ms. Sutton: As our society has grown increasingly dependent on internet connected items, if you think about the number of things in your home that are connected to the internet, if we think about across the military how we will need data connectivity, that certainly poses a very large attack surface that the adversary can go after.
▶ 1:23:04Sen. King: 85% of that is in the private sector, correct?
▶ 1:23:08Ms. Sutton: That is correct. Coupled with all of the technology like generative ai that has made it very easy to be able to exploit vulnerabilities.
▶ 1:23:19Sen. King: We work together three or four years ago enacting the recommendations of the cyberspace solarium commission but the threat has evolved rapidly. It is even more serious today than it was three years ago, correct?
▶ 1:23:33Ms. Sutton: I cannot agree more. I would also like to highlight that as the threat has evolved, so has that apartment and the federal government and how we respond. Both from a posture to be able to impose costs and defend forward which is where we have grown increasingly capable over the last seven years as well as working with private industry to take the lessons that we have learned from the department of defense where we see melissa's
▶ 1:24:05Ms. Sutton: Activity, where we see malware, to be able to share that with private industry so that it gets put into cyber security products that are used across the industry to leverage the knowledge that we gain from within the department of defense to make sure we are protecting not only the department of defense but also have that secondary effect.
▶ 1:24:24Sen. King: When we talk about the department of defense we are also talking about the defense industrial base which includes thousands of supply chain contractors. We are also vulnerable. It creates a very serious problem in terms of cyber defenses in a time of conflict. I would submit that the first three hours of a major conflict will be all about fiber, you agree -- all about cyber, do you agree?
▶ 1:24:53Ms. Sutton: I believe it will be fundamental as a domain of warfare within the adversary. Much of this activity happens below the level of armed conflict so even today we have fiber forces engaging with adversaries below the level of armed conflict on a daily basis but will also play a key role in crisis going forward.
▶ 1:25:19Sen. King: Chairman wicker and senator cotton mentioned deterrence and I believe that is one of the most important factors. We will not be able to defend ourselves that we are in a defensive crouch at all times. We need to have the capability for offense and cyber but I believe we need a stated doctrine. Everyone in the world knows our doctrine of deterrence in nuclear armaments.
▶ 1:25:48Sen. King: People should also understand a doctrine of deterrence that if you attack us in cyberspace, there will be a response. It might not be cyber. It might be something else. Over the past 25 years we still have not started to the sony hack, volt typhoon. There is no price to pay for our adversaries.
▶ 1:26:11Sen. King: I hope that within the defense department and the administration you will argue for a serious and substantial cyber deterrent stated policy. If it is not stated, deterrent doesn't work.
▶ 1:26:23Ms. Sutton: If confirmed, I look forward to working with you on the committee on making sure that we have the right posture. And that it is well articulated so that our adversaries are understanding and that we can prioritize resources to support -- so we are well postured to execute that.
▶ 1:26:43Sen. King: Thank you. No time for extensive questions. This restructuring at the pentagon including in the present reduction in staff -- including an 8% reduction in staff, my concern is that it should have been in a more thoughtful and systematic way than some of the other areas of our government over the past two or three months. That kind of cut could either be increased sufficiency or destroy morale and undercut the mission of the department.
▶ 1:27:13Sen. King: That will be the major challenge that you face, if confirmed,.
▶ 1:27:19Mr. Tata: If confirmed, I look forward to working with you and this committee on that and I agree with the national defense strategies will be paramount so that we don't have personal gaps where we need whether in the workforce.
▶ 1:27:41Sen. King: Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:27:43Chair Wicker: Senator budd.
▶ 1:27:47Sen. Budd: I enjoyed our conversation in the office last week. We talked about the importance of retaining cyber professionals. If confirmed, how will you ensure that our military maintains the most qualified cyber force and talk about retention, if you would.
▶ 1:28:11Ms. Sutton: I appreciated the opportunity to talk through some of these things in your office last week. My experience across the cyber domain is that while technology is incredibly important, it is not going to be effective without the best and the brightest available. I believe the department faces two challenges. The first is bringing the men, recruiting them but also retaining these talented individuals.
▶ 1:28:41Ms. Sutton: Some of our most talented operators and analysts at united states cyber command stay in the force is solely for financial incentives which is certain -- something we certainly need to work through, but also giving them the ability to stay on missions, to execute mission and to defend our nation. That is what brings them into work every day. Many of them think about this 24/7, work on hobbies at home, securing their own networks.
▶ 1:29:12Ms. Sutton: Those are the people we need to focus on bringing in, those with the passion who want to get on mission with help defending our network. I look forward to finding opportunities whether it is training or just continuing to keep them doing their jobs to build and maintain the best cyber force that we can have.
▶ 1:29:32Mr. Tata: If confirmed, I look forward to having those ongoing conversations. I have are some questions this morning about the growing cyber threat from adversaries like iran, russia and north korea and especially the prc.
▶ 1:29:46Mr. Tata: How does the military stay head and this may be a recap and you might feel like you are answering these ad infinitum, but if you can recap anything that may have occurred to you in this discussion about how we stay have in defensive and offensive and especially the offensive side. I heard my colleague mentioned that, offensive cyber operations. How do we stay ahead there?
▶ 1:30:13Ms. Sutton: A couple of things will be really important. It goes back to challenge -- talent. Making sure we have talented individuals and empowering them to develop solutions against these challenging problems. It is also going to be fundamental that we leverage the strength of the united states what is our competitiveness and innovation in tools like artificial intelligence and we make sure that we can bring those tools in and that our operators get to use them.
▶ 1:30:41Ms. Sutton: We often hear the term valley of death. We talked about that in your office last week. It is something that a committee member, we heard that term on a daily basis. What I think it will be important is figuring out how we actually solve that which I believe is matching up the developers with the actual operators and analysts who will be using the tools, to let them try it out before they bring the final product.
▶ 1:31:07Ms. Sutton: We have had success in that through a program called constellation and I look forward to using that model, if confirmed, to be able to bring innovations from across industry and the rest of the innovation ecosystem.
▶ 1:31:20Sen. Budd: You mentioned darpa. They have a number of projects designed to improve cyber resilience. How would you propose working to scale those across the d.o.d. From research projects to d.o.d. -like programs -- d.o.d.-wide programs?
▶ 1:31:43Ms. Sutton: It will be important that they understand the true needs of our war fighters and that they engage in that process early. But also that we address some of the policy and the training needed to allow our war fighters to adopt this technology correctly. The speed of technology is often outpacing the policies we have in place to utilize that technology.
▶ 1:32:05Ms. Sutton: For example in the case of artificial intelligence, we need to make sure we have the right policies for data and that it is responsibly used, but also that we are authorizing the use.
▶ 1:32:14Sen. Budd: I just got back from taiwan and the philippines. How would you work with international partners to boost their own cyber capabilities?
▶ 1:32:24Ms. Sutton: There is a tremendous opportunity in cyberspace to share the burden of defending against a common adversary. The department of defense has many tools including partnering with foreign nations to identify malicious cyber activity on their networks and help them defend that as well as the entire ecosystem. If confirmed, I look forward to making sure that we continue those and that they are prioritized going forward.
▶ 1:32:56Chair Wicker: Senator peters.
▶ 1:33:00Sen. Peters: Thank you. Mr. tata , thank you for your service and your willingness to serve again. In president -- in february president trump fired cq brown junior, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and replaced several top officers including the chief of naval operations, and the judge advocate generals of the army of the navy and the air force.
▶ 1:33:31Sen. Peters: As a former servicemember I am deeply concerned about the impact of purging high-level officers were simply following policies and legal orders that were put into place by prior department leadership. Regardless of which party is in power, since the founding of our country one of the bedrock principles has been the department of defense.
▶ 1:33:59Sen. Peters: I fear that these actions set a dangerous precedent and create an environment where military leaders might be afraid of dismissal for doing their duty and following legal orders. My question for you is how important do you view a military officer's obligation to provide their best military advice even if the advice contradicts what a political appointee might want to hear?
▶ 1:34:23Mr. Tata: That is paramount as part of a military officer's duty.
▶ 1:34:29Sen. Peters: How can a senior officer provide this advice when they fear that they may be subject to loyalty tests or purge boards despite following legal orders given to them by previous leadership?
▶ 1:34:42Mr. Tata: I was not there. I was not involved in any of those. If confirmed, what I can guarantee to this committee is that I will advise the chain of command, the secretary, the president, that on the hiring personnel and the support of personnel in these leadership positions in a very political
▶ 1:35:12Mr. Tata: And objective way.
▶ 1:35:14Sen. Peters: Would you ever support purge boards?
▶ 1:35:18Mr. Tata: Can you ask that question again?
▶ 1:35:23Sen. Peters: Would you ever support a purge board?
▶ 1:35:28Mr. Tata: I would never support a blatant purge. If the officer is not following the constitution, has committed some breach of his or her duty, that should be investigated and the investigation should tell us what to do.
▶ 1:35:44Sen. Peters: The under secretary of defense for personnel readiness oversees policies that shape every aspect of the service member's experience. Many of the service is impacting our troops are either substandard or under threat of getting worse including things like healthcare, housing, childcare for service members.
▶ 1:36:09Sen. Peters: My question for you is if confirmed, you will be responsible for not only insuring military personnel are supported on and off duty, but also protecting these vital benefits for families each and every day. My question for you is if confirmed, how will you combat these ongoing challenges and advocate for the well-being of service members and d.o.d. Civilians as well?
▶ 1:36:34Mr. Tata: I think this is where my experience as a combat leader, as a d.o.d. Leader and even as a school system leader with aging facilities really comes to play. If confirmed, taking a look at the childcare centers, the demand, what we are paying childcare providers, the defense commissary system, the post exchange system, all of things that provide benefits to our families and soldiers are so
▶ 1:37:06Mr. Tata: Critically important because a focused soldier is one that does not have to worry about his child, does not have to worry about his or her spouse and their job. You were talking about job portability and licensure between states. All of those things become critical and given my background, I look forward to, if confirmed, being able to energize these programs and take care of our soldiers, sailors, marines, and d.o.d.
▶ 1:37:34Mr. Tata: Civilians so that they can be more lethal at the cutting edge of our fight.
▶ 1:37:40Sen. Peters: If you could be more specific. With this question. What account ability measures will you put in place to ensure that installation commanders are indeed improving the quality of life for the service members?
▶ 1:37:53Mr. Tata: I think the accountability measures that we require, the feedback that we get from the families, as a school superintendent I learned that there is no better feedback mechanism than a mom and a microphone and going out and understanding what the service is like.
▶ 1:38:18Mr. Tata: Making sure that we are paying our childcare providers sufficient wages to provide the care our families deserve.
▶ 1:38:26Sen. Peters: Thank you.
▶ 1:38:29Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. Senator scott.
▶ 1:38:35Sen. Scott: Thank you. Congratulations on your nominations. You both have great backgrounds. I know you will do a great job. Mr. tata, you have a great background. Thank you for your military service. My dad is a military veteran. He told me I should join the navy instead. No germans, no foxholes and the food was better.
▶ 1:39:05Sen. Scott: You have a great background. The school districts and private. Have you ever had to let somebody go because they did not perform?
▶ 1:39:14Mr. Tata: I have had to let somebody go because of lack of performance, senator.
▶ 1:39:20Sen. Scott: When I asked the army, the air force and the navy who to their knowledge was held accountable for failing to do their job will be over the past four years, what would they tell me? They could not tell me.
▶ 1:39:32Mr. Tata: Can you ask again?
▶ 1:39:35Sen. Scott: We had a subcommittee hearing and I asked the air force, the army and the navy, who is responsible for not beating the recruitment numbers. They told me they could not tell me who is responsible.
▶ 1:39:50Mr. Tata: The chief of those services are responsible for infusing the warrior ethos all the way down and having the recruiting systems in place. The marine corps does it in an exceptional way because they actually have a recruiting mos and a recruiting system where they uphold the recruits. As superintendent I had marine recruits all over my high schools.
▶ 1:40:21Sen. Scott: Do you think that those responsible should have been promoted?
▶ 1:40:26Mr. Tata: I think there are a lot of things that go into promotion or declination of promotion for individual. Not having been there, I cannot comment. But certainly it should be considered.
▶ 1:40:39Sen. Scott: If you give somebody a specific job to do recruitment and they did not do it, if somebody worked for you at the school district and they had that specific job, how many of those people did you promote?
▶ 1:40:54Mr. Tata: I hired every principal of my 170 schools. I interviewed them all. I did not hire them if they had not been successful in their previous elementary school or middle school if I was hiring for high school.
▶ 1:41:13Sen. Scott: Do you plan on making sure that if we don't meet the goals of armed services that people will be held accountable whether they are a flag officer or whatever the title is. If they don't meet the goal, they should not be there. Do you believe that?
▶ 1:41:28Mr. Tata: I do believe that.
▶ 1:41:29Sen. Scott: In the same hearing, the chief of the navy testified that the navy was short 20,000 sailors. A pretty big problem because we are not at 100%. Ships, submarines and aircraft watch are at the forefront of the need for readiness and should be manned 100%. Can you give me an idea of how we can get to 100% readiness?
▶ 1:41:56Mr. Tata: The manning of the submarine fleet, the ship fleet, how we will do that short 20,000 sailors, that's a tall order. I understand there was a throughput issue getting them through basic training.
▶ 1:42:14Mr. Tata: If confirmed, I look forward to working with the service to try to help them understand how to recruit better and expand the aperture so they can scale to meet the demand if we will build more ships.
▶ 1:42:30Sen. Scott: When you hold people accountable, everybody did better?
▶ 1:42:36Mr. Tata: Just the opposite in the private sector. It is rather ruthless. You either perform or you don't.
▶ 1:42:44Sen. Scott: Did it get better because we help people accountable?
▶ 1:42:49Mr. Tata: Roger that.
▶ 1:42:50Sen. Scott: Thank you.
▶ 1:42:52Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator moran senator mowarren.
▶ 1:43:04Sen. Warren: Or military are strong because each member pledges to the constitution. Military personnel are not tied to a political authority. President trump threatens that political neutrality. He has threatened the joint chie of staff and the chief of naval operations.
▶ 1:43:29Sen. Warren: Secretary hegseth has purged top military lawyers and called for moving local generals -- removing woke generals. It has been called a new political standard for military service. You would be the defense secretary principal advisor on personnel matters. You have major views clear.
▶ 1:43:52Sen. Warren: On november 2024 you posted on x that a "must-do" for the trump administration will be to review every four-star general appointed by president biden and thank them for serving. What evaluations did you do for each of the four-star generals and admirals we convince you that each of them needed to be fired?
▶ 1:44:19Mr. Tata: That comment was in response to a cnn article that had credible sources, that several admirals and generals were having discussions on how to resist lawful orders from the president, usurping his article to constitutional authority as commander-in-chief, which I find unacceptable.
▶ 1:44:46Mr. Tata: I think we can all agree that the constitution of the united states that we swear an oath of office to, that I have done for many times in my career, is the ultimate, penultimate document that we support and that we swear an allegiance to. If there were people who were having those conversations, if there were people having both conversations --
▶ 1:45:11Sen. Warren: I have your tweet. I want to make clear that when generals are having conversations about what to do if they receive illegal orders so that they can still follow their obligations under the constitution of the united states, then they are following the law. They are not breaking the law. Let's go on to what else you said.
▶ 1:45:36Mr. Tata: If I might, the article said controversial. It did not say illegal. Controversial is very subject to interpretation.
▶ 1:45:47Sen. Warren: I want to clarify. You want to fire everybody. I have your tweet.
▶ 1:45:52Mr. Tata: I don't want to fire everybody, senator.
▶ 1:45:56Sen. Warren: You think they gave controversial statements? I'm sorry, it says before firing them. May I enter this into the record?
▶ 1:46:04Chair Wicker: So admitted.
▶ 1:46:07Sen. Warren: Let me try another one. On november 2024 you posted on x that the trump administration should choose only leaders who are "all oars in the water to achieve trump agenda." that means you believe that service members to pledge loyalty to trump. Is that what you believe?
▶ 1:46:32Mr. Tata: That is not what I believe.
▶ 1:46:33Sen. Warren: Why did you post that?
▶ 1:46:35Mr. Tata: I was a private citizen when I posted that.
▶ 1:46:38Sen. Warren: When you were a private citizen, you posted things you don't believe? You are still a private senator now.
▶ 1:46:47Chair Wicker: Let him answer your question.
▶ 1:46:50Mr. Tata: Agenda forward talks about shipbuilding, reducing the wars that we engage in. As a leader, I support the idea and the president's vision that he had in agenda 47 from a foreign policy perspective.
▶ 1:47:12Sen. Warren: That is not what this tweet says. May I enter this into the record?
▶ 1:47:17Chair Wicker: Without objection.
▶ 1:47:20Sen. Warren: Four months ago you posted on x that planning for president trump's inauguration should assume that the national guard and d.o.d. Are compromised at a minimum by hatred of the incoming administration. What information did you have about each member of the guard and d.o.d. That caused you to draw this conclusion and put it out there in public?
▶ 1:47:49Mr. Tata: I have no information --
▶ 1:47:52Sen. Warren: About our guard you just said -- confidence is based on the experience and performance of a military leader. Evidently you have no information individually about the generals, the admirals and the members of our national guard in d.o.d. Who serve this country and yet, you are willing to say that they all need to be fired or treated as traders -- traitors.
▶ 1:48:23Sen. Warren: We seem to think that if a general or admiral was promoted that the person should automatically be fired? That is a pretty standard move for a dictatorship. I think it is calls for you for this office.
▶ 1:48:34Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator kelly.
▶ 1:48:38Sen. Kelly: Thank you Mr. chairman. Mr. tata, thank you for being here and meeting with me in my office in march. I want to get right to it. In a sense deleted tweet published in november 2024 you tweeted that "the pentagon is politicized and needs a thorough vetting to include senior active-duty military personnel who are participating in these
▶ 1:49:11Sen. Kelly: Discussions." you went on to tweet or to the constitution is the only test -- loyalty to the constitution is the only test and must include review every ses appointment and d.o.d. Will lead the underground efforts to undermine the administration as they did in 2016 to 2020.
▶ 1:49:43Sen. Kelly: That was five, this is six. Appoint strong leaders who are aligned with the potus's agenda. All oars in the water to achieve trump agenda 2027. End of quote. What did you mean?
▶ 1:50:10Mr. Tata: Thank you for the opportunity to have this conversation. Agenda 47's peace through strength, rebuilding our military, focusing on not engaging in needless wars.
▶ 1:50:29Mr. Tata: That tweet was in direct response to a cnn article that discussed credible sources of generals and admirals having conversations about how to resist lawful orders from a commander-in-chief who is appointed under article two of the constitution as the commander-in-chief.
▶ 1:50:51Mr. Tata: I found it quite unacceptable that admirals and generals as reported by cnn were having conversations about how to resist our president and for lawful orders. In so doing, I was shocked general brown had never acknowledged this report, said it was bogus --
▶ 1:51:17Sen. Kelly: Was the report by?
▶ 1:51:19Mr. Tata: Cna. An article by cnn that cited critical choices that admirals and generals were having conversations about how to resist lawful orders from the president.
▶ 1:51:35Sen. Kelly: Which is more important. Loyalty to the constitution or loyalty to the administration's agenda or to the president?
▶ 1:51:43Mr. Tata: We all raise our right hand to uphold and defend the constitution and it is also very important that we accomplish the presidents vision of no unnecessary wars, rebuilding the military, taking care of our men and women in uniform. Those are the goals I'm talking about.
▶ 1:52:10Mr. Tata: I found it reprehensible that admirals and generals in the pentagon about how to -- were having conversations about how to usurp the authority of the commander-in-chief given in article two and disobey lawful orders. That is what I found offensive.
▶ 1:52:34Sen. Kelly: It is interesting that folks who often do not give credence to what comes from cnn are now quoting cnn as a reliable source when it is convenient in a political argument. I think you are saying that loyalty to the constitution is above loyalty to any individual included the president, is that correct?
▶ 1:53:04Mr. Tata: I have raised my right hand for 44 years to support and defend our constitution. I also believe it is important as a political appointee if confirmed, that all the vision of the president and the administration gets implemented appropriately.
▶ 1:53:25Sen. Kelly: So if confirmed, who will you be swearing an oath to?
▶ 1:53:32Mr. Tata: I will swear an oath to the constitution.
▶ 1:53:36Sen. Kelly: Are you willing to get fired from this job?
▶ 1:53:39Mr. Tata: Absolutely.
▶ 1:53:41Chair Wicker: Thank you. I recognize the ranking member.
▶ 1:53:55Chair Reed: The gentleman was making reference to an article from cnn. The opening says that generals are holding conversations if trump border 2 fire long-haulers -- trump ordered to fire large swaths.
▶ 1:54:26Chair Reed: Another quote him a trump's election has raised questions inside the pentagon about what would happen if the president issued an unlawful order particularly if political appointees did not push back? Troops do not -- but the question is what happens. Do we see resignations from syrian military leaders or is this as abandoning their people?
▶ 1:54:56Chair Reed: Contrary to being an article directed at supporting the president, this article is raising questions that are still present here today. One of the president who has said due process is not something he has to enforce in the constitution, what about a president who is talking about his third term? Will he use military forces to help secure a third term?
▶ 1:55:22Chair Reed: The comment about thwarting came from a republican commentator Mr. jennings. He said that they are already having conversations about how to undermine the commander-in-chief. That is not important to this article.
▶ 1:55:50Chair Reed: Then they are having meetings about what they are doing to thwart the american president. That is not the article. That is cnn. Let me follow-up. What these officials are considering right now in discussing among themselves, what if it gives the pentagon of the U.S. military illegal orders to do certain things. What do they do then? That is the essence of the article.
▶ 1:56:20Chair Reed: I request unanimous consent to submit the article for the record and also the commentary.
▶ 1:56:25Chair Wicker: Without objection. So ordered. Mr. tata, would you like to respond?
▶ 1:56:35Mr. Tata: I would. Thank you for the opportunity. I want to make it clear that my commentary is precisely focused on loyalty to the constitution and the oath that we take.
▶ 1:56:53Mr. Tata: Admirals and generals in the pentagon should not as was indicated in this article be having conversations about how to resist the commander-in-chief providing lawful orders and controversial orders may be lawful. I want to be crystal clear chairman and ranking member. I have upheld the constitution at every job I have had.
▶ 1:57:26Mr. Tata: I take it very seriously that article two appoints the commander-in-chief, the president as commander-in-chief. No uniformed officer has the right to supersede the commander-in-chief's authority of a lawful order. And that is the point that I am trying to get across.
▶ 1:57:46Chair Reed: I think you are missing the point because the point is illegal orders and that is exactly what the cnn report was talking about. You say, I will follow every legal order but never an illegal order.
▶ 1:58:03Chair Reed: If you are ordered or the secretary of defense is ordered to use military forces to go into a city in the united states to pick up illegals or legal citizens, would you have a discussion on whether or not this is appropriate under the constitution of the united states?
▶ 1:58:26Mr. Tata: If confirmed, I will be the personnel right in his undersecretary and I would not have any role in that function. The conversation about the use or the individuals who have been deployed throughout history by president george w.
▶ 1:58:47Mr. Tata: Bush or president johnson, to help preserve peace and integrate schools the for example. Of course, there would be conversations, ranking member.
▶ 1:59:03Chair Reed: Exactly the conversations that you are criticizing. Thank you.
▶ 1:59:08Chair Wicker: The chair gave the ranking member quite a bit of leeway there. I thought we were going to enter a statement in the record. It seems that senator rosen is next.
▶ 1:59:21Sen. Rosen: Thank you for holding his hearing. Thank you to the witnesses for your willingness to serve your families who are here today. I will switch up a little bit. I will give you a bit of a break Mr. tata, because I want to focus on cyber intel capability with Ms. sutton.
▶ 1:59:42Sen. Rosen: The fy 25 ndaa included a provision to establish a cyber capability to provide foundational scientific and technical intelligence support for cybercom. Can you discuss how you will address that requirement and what's your understanding of the departments approach to standing this up including the lessons learned from the recently completed cyber intelligence pilot with the defense intelligence agency?
▶ 2:00:12Ms. Sutton: I appreciate the question and the attention that you put on this issue. In all domains of warfare intelligence is critical to being able to conduct our operations. But it is particularly critical in the cyber domain for a range of applications to develop capabilities, to build the accesses we needed to execute the operations and can understand such awareness -- situational awareness.
▶ 2:00:44Ms. Sutton: As the demand signal for cyber operations has grown considerably in response to the threat of militant -- malicious cyber actors, so has our intelligence. We have not kept pace with the workforce to support the intelligence need. It is my understanding that a recent pilot has been completed with the command and intelligence community.
▶ 2:01:11Ms. Sutton: I look forward to understanding the specific gaps that were identified as well as ensuring that we have the right organizational structure in place to be able to move out on those recommendations and also to make sure that we can bring in the highly technical and deeply skilled tile and -- talent that is necessary to be successful.
▶ 2:01:34Sen. Rosen: As the cyber threat evolves, that means the evolution of our forces. That brings me to the next question about cyber workforce recruitment and retention. D.o.d. Thed.o.d. Continues to struggle with recruiting and retaining. Increasingly across the private sector. It is a priority of mine to fix this issue as ranking member of the cybersecurity subcommittee.
▶ 2:01:59Sen. Rosen: If confirmed, what specific actions we do take to attract and retain the skilled cyber professionals especially when you are competing with the private sector and what barriers , cultural, structural policy-based that you believe are preventing d.o.d. From doing this? How can we work together to help you in this capacity?
▶ 2:02:24Ms. Sutton: I share your concern about the importance of making sure that we have the best and brightest. That is the only way we will be successful against the adversary. I believe that this is going to be a variety of approaches. There will not be one simple step we can take. We will have to look at making sure we are bringing in the right talent, that we are incentivizing and keeping it our mission.
▶ 2:02:47Ms. Sutton: One key area that I think we have underutilized in the past is looking at how we leverage our reserve and national guard and bring in the talent that they have in private industry and apply it to our missions base. I have seen many examples in my time where we will bring in an air force reservist who has an advanced degree in data science, works in private industry and they come in and advise on our ai strategy and roadmap.
▶ 2:03:14Ms. Sutton: Or where we have an army reservist who spent almost a decade as one of our most capable operators in the force. Being a reversed -- reservist is now a private industry. I look forward to being able to support further.
▶ 2:03:38Sen. Rosen: I look forward to working with you on that. I know you are thinking about the partnerships. We have issues like rotational programs with the private sector, pay flexibility, expedited clearance process to improve workforce readiness. We also have academia. My home state of nevada, we have a desert research institute. They are exploring innovative ways to grow our cyber towel locally.
▶ 2:04:07Sen. Rosen: How will you partner with our universities?
▶ 2:04:10Ms. Sutton: Absolutely. We looked -- we need to look across the nation's talent. I will look to further leverage the cyber center of excellence program that is focused on bringing a talented pipeline of students into government particularly the department of defense but looking at how we can further leverage that to help us solve some of the hardest problems.
▶ 2:04:37Sen. Rosen: I look forward to working with you on all of this.
▶ 2:04:40Chair Wicker: Senator kaine, if you are recognized. Ms. sutton I'm enlightened --
▶ 2:04:57Sen. Kaine: I'm enlightened by the questions I have heard before me. You have talked about burden sharing and there were also real opportunities not just to share the burden but to take advantage of the expertise of other nations.
▶ 2:05:13Sen. Kaine: I have been particularly involved in this committee and the foreign relations committee on theaukus -- on the uaaukus framework. Can you talk about the capacity of our allies and how we can be stronger?
▶ 2:05:35Ms. Sutton: I appreciate that question. The united states has a strong innovative advantage but we do not have a monopoly on talent. I think partnerships with some of our close partners and allies particularly the australians through the aukus pillar two will be really important so that we can ensure that we are able to share the latest and greatest
▶ 2:06:05Ms. Sutton: Technology but also that we are able to prioritize our investments where we are not duplicating efforts. And so working closely with all of our partners but particularly utilizing the aukus agreement will be critical.
▶ 2:06:23Sen. Kaine: I'm glad you brought up aukus pillar two. Pillar one is discrete. It is about training the aussies on how to operate and working with them so that they can develop their own capacity to build nuclear subs of their own design which would include a lot of U.S. technology. Pillar two is more open-ended, which is good.
▶ 2:06:48Sen. Kaine: It means we have to define what will be some of the deliverables in pillar two. I think cyber cooperation is one of the areas most fertile for pillar two both with the aussies and the u.k.. I encouraged that you brought that up. I want to follow up on the discussion that you had with senator king that I have heard many times in this committee. I am not sure that we are as far down the road as we need to be.
▶ 2:07:17Sen. Kaine: And that is the offensive nature of our cyber capacity. You used the phrase we have the capacity to impose costs. I often wonder if we are imposing costs. Your point that the defender has to be right every time. The attacker only has to be right once. We do have -- we do have a good cyber defense. We are not perfect.
▶ 2:07:46Sen. Kaine: A couple times a year there is a story about a cyber hack in some part of the U.S. government or critical infrastructure in the U.S. those stores are very public and the public hears them and the public is worried about cyber. We talk about offensive and other domains. We know when there is a U.S. bombing.
▶ 2:08:15Sen. Kaine: But we don't talk about what we do offensively in cyber. I think there are reasons for that. It ends up making the public very aware that we are under attack because the news stories a couple times a year is about successful cyberattack. But the public never hears about our use of the offensive cyber capacity to impose costs on those who are attacking us.
▶ 2:08:39Sen. Kaine: Why cant we be a little more candid with the american public about our offensive use of cyber so that they are aware that we are not just playing defense all the time that we actually have an offensive capacity that we use.
▶ 2:08:52Ms. Sutton: That's a great question. I appreciate the opportunity to address it today. As you mentioned, we have decades of experience talking about things like nuclear deterrence. I'm that area of cyber we are still going down that path of evolution. I think there is a lot of work still to be done. A decade ago we barely mentioned the word offensive cyber. Today, many discussions as you mentioned in this area are held in classified settings.
▶ 2:09:23Ms. Sutton: I believe we are at the point where it is appropriate for us to start having the right discussions to ensure that we are understanding and that we have the right posture and look forward to be able to continue that dialogue. I think there is a culture change, just as we have seen a culture change when we used to see threats in the cyberspace. Through establishment of things like the nsa cyber collaboration center, we work very hard to take what we see and share it with industries.
▶ 2:09:54Ms. Sutton: I think that culture change needs to happen.
▶ 2:09:59Sen. Kaine: I look forward to working with you on this. Deterrence only works when it is public. And the public needs to understand as well that we are not just victims of cyber attacks but we have a well-developed capacity to impose costs.
▶ 2:10:18Chair Wicker: Thank you.
▶ 2:10:21Sen. Schmitt: Thank you. I want to follow up on that. I don't know if you have been asked something like that a bunch of times today are not, that was the focus of my question. I don't know if you look at is. There has been a lot of frustration. We have to start talking about this and acting in a way that deters our enemies on the cyber front. I am talking about china.
▶ 2:10:51Sen. Schmitt: I think they have gotten so emboldened will be so brazen. Just look at the most recent examples whether it is hacking into phone calls of government officials. There are a lot of things they are doing. It is important for us to expose. It is also for alice to understand that there are nefarious actors willing to do this.
▶ 2:11:15Sen. Schmitt: If you sign up for the one belt, one road initiative, not only can they turn the lights on and off, they can make airlines stop if you are critical of the ccp. The thing that people don't see on the cyber front, it is tools they are willing to use. This is more of a monologue than a question. I think that we have to -- we
▶ 2:11:45Admit These Things: We bring them out of the open when they happen. They don't want to admit any vulnerabilities. I just hope that in your role, taking probably you have heard on a bipartisan basis, we need to be more aggressive offensively. If they don't feel the pain, they will just keep doing it. I think they have gotten more emboldened to do it.
▶ 2:12:12Admit These Things: All date a lot of americans understand how vulnerable our critical infrastructure is to what the chinese are willing to do. It would reach a critical mass if they moved on taiwan. That is probably where they will go first and tried to destroy any resolve that we we any resolve that we have in ths country. I think we need to be more aggressive. I have heard a snippet but how do you view that?
▶ 2:12:41Ms. Sutton: I share your concerns with the aggression we are seeing from chinese malicious cyber activity. There are a couple of priorities I would have been addressing this issue. The first is the importance of calling it out. That is something that the united states cannot do alone. It is going to be important for all of our close partners and allies to share the burden.
▶ 2:13:04Ms. Sutton: When we see activity that is unacceptable and violates the norms of cyberspace, that we call that out and call out china's targeting of our infrastructure that threatens our american trust. It's important that we make sure that the department of defense has a robust effective second to none capability in both offensive and defensive capabilities and that those options are presented to the president and the secretary so that they have a range of tools
▶ 2:13:35Ms. Sutton: Available to response and deter this activity. The third priority I have is to consider that cyber is one tool in our toolbox. How can we as a department be best postured to support other lovers of national power whether it be economic or diplomatic sanctions to be able to impose further costs based on what we see in cyberspace.
▶ 2:14:01Sen. Schmitt: The general next to you, a question that is related to both of your roles. Do you feel you are able to recruit and do you feel like we have access to the best talent to engage in this effort?
▶ 2:14:15Ms. Sutton: One of the most effective recruiting tools we have in the department of defense is our mission and the ability to bring the best and brightest from our country and let them work on hard problems and defend the country every day. If confirmed, one of my priorities will be to keep them on mission and keep them focused on doing the work that brings them here while making sure we have the right compensation in place to make sure that they are incentivized for that work.
▶ 2:14:46Sen. Schmitt: With the limited time I have, we are focused on the one of this too. In the first two years the criticism that I had of the previous administration was the obsession with dei and cultural marxism that hurt recruiting and morale. It is discriminatory. I know this administration and secretary of defense have made it a point to root that out.
▶ 2:15:18Sen. Schmitt: Even in the preparation for those hearings that we were trying to find examples of this ideology, you can tell it started to go underground a little bit more. The previous administration did not want to talk about this but there could be slide decks.
▶ 2:15:45Sen. Schmitt: I think the american people will appreciate this and I'm glad you have made it a focus. Just knowing that you are on board with making sure that this will not be part of what we do anymore.
▶ 2:15:59Mr. Tata: You have my commitment to focus on those things to unify us to be a cohesive weevil fighting force. -- cohesive lethal fighting force. Thank you.
▶ 2:16:15Sen. Duckworth: Monday thing that does not have place in our military is the fiery people based on political loyalty. I know we talked about this already but in light of the secretary of defense statement yesterday where he plans on firing 20% of the flag officer ranks if confirmed, I think it is important that we revisit this.
▶ 2:16:42Sen. Duckworth: The trump administration has shown a troubling pattern about not only subtly purging highly qualified general officers but also of advancing other officers based solely on perceived political loyalty despite those officers lacking the qualifications for the jobs for which they are being promoted. Choosing military leadership based on partisan criteria is un-american and puts our military readiness and public trust at risk.
▶ 2:17:07Sen. Duckworth: It is an affront to the great meritocracy that our military has represented until this administration. Mr. tata if confirmed, you would carry there is possibility of safeguarding the readiness of our men and women in uniform including the role of overseeing the conditions and standards under which service members can advance in their careers. I have concerns that you support the removal of senior military leaders that you consider to be politically misguided.
▶ 2:17:37Sen. Duckworth: Officers who by all accounts carried out lawful orders and policies of a past administration. We do support firing general timothy c1 >> senator, I wasn't involved in the firing and I have no comment on that.
▶ 2:17:59Senator Duckworth: Yes or no. There was no investigation, no wrongdoing. He was just fired by the president. >> senator, I have no ability to comment on it because I have no ability to comment on it.
▶ 2:18:18Sen. Duckworth: Would you have agreed with firing with any wrongdoing -- without any wrongdoing on her part? >> I have no information on her firing and cannot comment on that.
▶ 2:18:34Sen. Duckworth: Ok. Under oath you confirmed, you are saying you have no comments, but these are two examples of the trump administration's disturbing pattern of firing expert warriors at the top of their game. Where they fired because they follow their oath and executed a previous leaders policy?
▶ 2:19:01Sen. Duckworth: Do I have your commitment you will not support firing general officers for following the orders of a past administration? >> if confirmed, you have my commitment we will have a meritocracy.
▶ 2:19:20Sen. Duckworth: Do I have commitment you will not fire officers do to follow unlawful policies of the past administration? >> you are asking me to ask a hypothetical.
▶ 2:19:32Sen. Duckworth: You just gave me a hypothetical. I said simply for executing lawful policies. If there was nothing else. >> there would be no reason to fire anyone if they are simply following lawful orders.
▶ 2:19:49Sen. Duckworth: Ok. Do I have your commitment you will not use officers record of policies for beliefs either formally or informally as promotion material? >> it is a hypothetical situation you are presenting to me. The focus of the department, if confirmed, will be on meritocracy and promoting those that provide us the greatest war fighting force that our young men and women deserve.
▶ 2:20:18Sen. Duckworth: So the record of policies that were legal and lawful from a previous administration or a person's personal beliefs will not be used as criteria? >> I would see no reason to have any of that play into the promotion of the system that the secretary is attempting to implement.
▶ 2:20:48Sen. Duckworth: It is one based on meritocracy and high standards and if confirmed I look forward to working with this body and the secretary on ensuring we have the most capable leaders that our young men and women deserve.
▶ 2:21:02Sen. Duckworth: I hope you live up to that because practices like firing officers for following lawful orders put members in an impossible position. More importantly, politicizing promotions and firings have a corrosive effect on our military and our ability to prepare for conflict so I hope you will live by that statement. >> thank you. >> thank you.
▶ 2:21:34Sen. Duckworth: Congratulations on your nominations. Playing very important roles in the pentagon. General tate a, last year congress passed several reforms to rollback d.e.I. And instead of the pentagon doing that, bureaucrats in the department simply rebranded it and called it something different and then they used contractors to implement d.e.I. Training in language that we fought for and set to eliminate that.
▶ 2:22:05Sen. Duckworth: If you are confirmed, how will you eliminate it and fulfill the executive order by president trump and secretary hegseth to do that? >> thank you for the opportunity, very important we focus on those things that unify us as a force. Our young men and women that join our just from the cloth of our society.
▶ 2:22:29Sen. Duckworth: The job of basic training, the job of the unit leaders from platoon leaders are to unify those people with a common purpose and focus. There is no room for anything that divides us as a people.
▶ 2:22:46Sen. Duckworth: If confirmed in this position, I will help implement the laws and I will follow the laws to make sure that we are focused on lethality, meritocracy, and war fighting so that we can have the most unified force that can close out and destroy our enemies.
▶ 2:23:07Sen. Banks: Really important, I totally agree with you. Bureaucrats of the pentagon because so much of this stuff is deeply embedded in different programs and ways. Instead of following the intent, they simply reinvented it, they called it something different. Have you thought about what else congress can do to support you and that to completely wipe it out?
▶ 2:23:34Mr. Tata: Senator, if confirmed I look forward to working with this committee on how to create the most lethal fighting force that we can and that is by focusing on those things that unify us. If confirmed, I will go out into the field and I will bring back reports, I will report out.
▶ 2:23:58Mr. Tata: I committed to reporting out to this committee if confirmed and being able to tell you what I'm seeing. I am a lead from the front type of leader. That has been my need those since I put on my second lieutenant barb.
▶ 2:24:12Sen. Banks: Let us know how we can help you and support you in that. In january, the president issued another executive order and think is really wharton and he told the dod to review all available mechanisms under which military connected families could use dod funds to attend schools of their choice including private, faith-based, or public charter schools we
▶ 2:24:43Sen. Banks: Know this thing guess -- single biggest reason people leave the military is because of education and the schools their kids go to. You are a former school superintendent yourself. Do you think service member parents should have all of the educational choices civilian parents already have? By the way , state department families have school choice on where to send their kids to schools.
▶ 2:25:16Sen. Banks: Why can't the military do it too.
▶ 2:25:25Mr. Tata: Parents in the military should have the option to send their children to get the best education for their children. The quadrennial review that just came out determined that joint burners make joint decisions and they are making joint decisions as you alluded to about their children and where they can best raise their children in the best school system or school environment.
▶ 2:25:51Mr. Tata: As a former superintendent to compete with the charter schools, I created two of the best performing system schools in the state today. Two of the leadership academies.
▶ 2:26:12Sen. Banks: I want to work with you on that. School districts around the country are banning cell phones during the class from the school day. Do you think that would be helpful?
▶ 2:26:29Mr. Tata: Anything that reduces distractions in the classroom would help.
▶ 2:26:33Chair Wicker: Senator slotkin.
▶ 2:26:38Senator Slotkin: Thank you for being here. A couple of questions a couple of questions you talked about, you are in control of the data of everyone in uniform in the whole, massive department of defense enterprise.
▶ 2:27:05Senator Slotkin: That is a huge responsibility separate from our policy differences. You control the data of every serviceman, sailor, marine, and what happens with that data. Secretary hegseth has said he welcomes doge into the pentagon, red carpet for them. We heard from the media about a case of doge going into the nlrb and getting access to all the data of the individuals there.
▶ 2:27:37Senator Slotkin: They were targeted by a russian ip address to try to take some of that data. There are some people who think the bad guys are following around the doge guys to get data. Our bases, are sensitive sites, the vulnerability in the force, deployment schedules, everything.
▶ 2:28:04Senator Slotkin: Assuming that the secretary continues to allow doge in, it will be you in that seat who decides to give over millions of pieces of information or not. Will you provide the people of doge access to the complete file of our uniformed military personnel records?
▶ 2:28:22Mr. Tata: Senator, thank you for meeting with me in your office and you bring up a critical point, not only all the personal records, but all the military health records as well. It is a massive amount of data and what I will commit to you publicly today that I did in your office is that before doge, if I'm confirmed, before doge is able to access anything with regard to personnel and personal protected information, there
▶ 2:28:52Mr. Tata: Will be some kind of contract that prevents them from doing certain things. I'm not there yet, I haven't worked with doge, I don't know doge, but what I do know men and women in the military deserve to have their privacy protected and I will commit to them and I will commit to do -- do you do do everything possible to get between anyone that wants to get their data and use it for any other reason.
▶ 2:29:19Sen. Slotkin: You are saying you would give over the data if you signed a contract ahead of time? Some sort of contract which we really haven't seen at these other departments.
▶ 2:29:28Mr. Tata: Senator, the point you make is so important and paramount. It can't be overstated. The military health data, the military personnel data, all the records are so critical that we have to have some kind of guardrail in place that helps us prevent improper access to personnel data.
▶ 2:29:57Mr. Tata: If confirmed, I can commit that I will do my very best to put guardrails in place and by the way, I don't suspect doge would try to do anything improper with this information, but sometimes accidents happen, so we would need some kind of guardrail in place to be able to protect military members' personal data and their medical data.
▶ 2:30:21Sen. Slotkin: Can I just ask our other nominee here today, you are going to be in charge of cyber policy. Do you believe that signal and tele-message are appropriate communications for sensitive, classified, or operational information at the department of defense?
▶ 2:30:49Ms. Sutton: The department of defense has a clear set of policies for information and allowable applications.
▶ 2:30:58Sen. Slotkin: 's signal and allowed or tele-message, you are up for confirmation, it is a big job, are they allowed instruments to use at the department of defense today?
▶ 2:31:09Ms. Sutton: It depends on the level of classification.
▶ 2:31:13Sen. Slotkin: So operational information that is not classified as allowed on signal today?
▶ 2:31:20Ms. Sutton: Senator, with regard to the matter you are addressing.
▶ 2:31:22Sen. Slotkin: I'm not discussing anything, I'm allow -- asking you to restate the rules for the job you are attempting to be confirmed for. It -- are signal or tell a message a permissible app or system?
▶ 2:31:43Ms. Sutton: There are a wide variety of applications that very that we need to be consultant.
▶ 2:31:49Sen. Slotkin: I'm glad you have your talking points message. You and I both know that if the average person, I was a young cia officer. If I ever put operational details on signal, telemessage, text, anything, that would communicate the time and method an hour and technique we were going to use in an operation, I would be removed from my job immediately, put on administrative leave.
▶ 2:32:16Sen. Slotkin: If I put people in danger, I would be referred to the department of justice for a criminal investigation. I understand you have gotten reasonable questions today but we have to call balls and strikes. If the average soldier wouldn't be allowed to use those systems, the secretary of defense and everyone around him shouldn't be using it, that should be an easy thing to take accountability for.
▶ 2:32:40Sen. Slotkin: It is concerning to me that going into this job you can't give a straight balls and strikes answer. I yelled back.
▶ 2:32:48Chair Wicker: Thank you very much and this concludes testimony for the information. Questions for the record will be due within two business days. Is there anything further, Mr. ranking member? >> no, sir.
▶ 2:33:13Chair Wicker: With that, we are returned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]