▶ 0:14:42Sen. Ernst: I call this meeting of the senate armed services committee to order. Today, I welcome our nominees and their families, and I would like to extend my gratitude for their willingness to serve our nation. Chairman wicker is unable to attend today's hearing, so I will be acting in his stead. At this time, I would like to offer his opening statement into the record. Without objection, it is now entered.
▶ 0:15:13Sen. Ernst: I now turn to ranking member reed for his opening remarks.
▶ 0:15:16Sen. Reed: Thank you, madam chairman. Mr. obadal, Mr. o'keefe, welcomed to you and your families. Chair. I would like to thank your spouses. Appreciate your families long records of service. You certainly exemplified dedication to nation and to the constitution. Thank you. Mr. obadal, you have been nominated to be under secretary of the army.
▶ 0:15:46Sen. Reed: Her long career as an army aviator and special operations should serve you well in this role. If confirmed, one of your top challenges will be helping the army navigate the perpetual tension between organization and readiness. The army has been working to grow and pursue major monetization efforts of four years, but has faced a multiyear trend series of flat budgets, which appears to be the case again this year.
▶ 0:16:16Sen. Reed: Last week, the army announced initiatives that will consolidate commands, accelerate emerging technologies, reduce procurement of ground vehicles and aviation systems. The details of this plan are so far limited, but I would ask for your thoughts about how to balance these efforts against budget priorities. Mr.
▶ 0:16:41Sen. Reed: Obadal, I'm skeptical of the deponent of 12,000 soldiers to the southern border, including the expansion of army installations to include so-called national defense areas along the border. At a time when border crossings are at the lowest level in years, order security is indeed national security, but immigration enforcement is a mission carried out by the department of homeland security, not the department of defense.
▶ 0:17:13Sen. Reed: As I have engaged with commanders at all levels, many have made clear that border missions have a draining effect on their time, resources, and readiness. Mr. obadal, I would like to know how you plan to ensure capabilities are not being needlessly wasted as the army works hard to meet its existing demands and increasing threats. Ultimately, success depends on the soldiers and civilians.
▶ 0:17:40Sen. Reed: Over the past two years, the army has made significant progress improving its recruiting activities, and has enjoyed success with programs like the future soldier and territory force. However, with the ministry and efforts to limit who serves may have a chilling effect on recruitment and retention. There is room in the army for all qualified volunteers. I am interested in your thoughts on this issue. Mr. o'keefe, I welcome your nomination.
▶ 0:18:10Sen. Reed: You are well qualified for this role. You have served as a staff member on this committee for many years. In addition to work at the bipartisan policy center and service as an air force officer. He will assist the under secretary with many chaenges to the department, including ensuring that our military has adequate numbers of service members of sufficiently high character and talent to meet our national defense objective.
▶ 0:18:41Sen. Reed: You will be responsible for assisting the undersecretary in military and civilian personnel policy, childcare programs, and working with the military services to ensure the health and welfare of the force. I would ask that you share what military family issues you feel need to be addressed, and what recommendations you have for readiness.
▶ 0:19:05Sen. Reed: Gentlemen, you will both be challenged to handle the fallout from the purge of senior officers and civilians. Especially in light of the indiscriminate layoffs and a percent reduction of the entire workforce. Earlier this week, secretary hegseth issued guidance to illuminate about 20% of the officer positions in the U.S. military.
▶ 0:19:35Sen. Reed: I have always advocated for efficiency, but tough personnel decision should be based on fact and analysis, not arbitrary percentages. Eliminating the positions of many of our most skilled officers would not create efficiency. It indeed could cripple the force. I would like to know how you would both plan to address these challenges. I want to say thank you to the nominees and I look forward to you.
▶ 0:20:04Chair Ernst: Thank you, raking member read. We will start with their opening statements. Mr. obadal, we will start with your opening statement, please.
▶ 0:20:12Mr. Obadal: Madam chairwoman, ranking member reed, distinction members of the committee, and honored by the opportunity to appear here today. I thank the president for his trust in my ability to return to the service by nominating me for this position. I'm grateful for the love and support of my family over many years. I wife christine is a west point graduate and former army officer who waste our three boys almost single-handedly because of my overseas commitments.
▶ 0:20:41Mr. Obadal: Our sons alex, kris, and john were unwittingly pressed into service as army kids, moving schools and dealing with the regular absence of their data. Over the course of 27 years of active duty, I have led soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and civilians at multiple levels. It is the greatest professional privilege that one can experience. During this time, managed budgets and workforces. I spent extensive time coordinating between government agencies.
▶ 0:21:10Mr. Obadal: I let multinational efforts with complex negotiations. My subsequent experience in industry was critical to my understanding of the defense industrial base, the challenges of the military acquisition process, and the widening time gap between the commercial innovation cycle and the military adoption of emerging technology.
▶ 0:21:32Mr. Obadal: I believe the undersecretary, as chief management officer, should be focused on the business of our army -- installations, budget, acquisitions, and manpower. These areas are direct contributors to key priorities of mine if confirmed -- readiness, transformation, and response will resource management. These priorities are critical to national security because in a time of crisis and large-scale combat operations, to disaster relief, our army is the machine to which the nation turns.
▶ 0:22:03Mr. Obadal: It is the only arm of government to address problems at scale. It is the final backstop to manage natural disasters, pandemics, civil infrastructure, and most importantly, to fight and win on the ground. To complete these tasks, the army must rapidly evolve to meet today's challenges, while simultaneously shaping capabilities against tomorrow's threats, and do so deliberately instead of in response to the actions of external forces.
▶ 0:22:34Mr. Obadal: A transformed army will be better equipped to defend the homeland and maintain its criticality to the joint force. If confirmed as undersecretary, I commit to focusing on today's readiness, transformation for tomorrow, and disciplined resource management, all in order to ensure that our soldiers never have to experience a fight. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:22:57Chair Ernst: Thank you. We moved Mr. o'keefe for your opening statement.
▶ 0:23:02Mr. O'Keefe: Thank you, members of this testing was committee. It is an honor to sit before you today after sitting on the other side of the day is behind you over the last eight years. I have to say you look very intimidating from this vantage point. As president trump's nominee to be the deputy very -- deputy undersecretary, I think the president for nominating me, and secretary hegseth for his support. With me is my wife, lindsay. We met 14 years ago.
▶ 0:23:32Mr. O'Keefe: She was a captain and I with a second lieutenant at the time. Fortunately for me, she was able to see past my inferior rank, and I have been a better man for it ever since. It seems appropriate, with mother's day coming up -- he is an excellent mother. We have three children, ages 6, 5, and two. Lindsay''s continued sacrifice and support have enabled me to pursue a career in public service.
▶ 0:23:58Mr. O'Keefe: When senator mccain first asked me to join his staff, I could not imagine the magnitude of the opportunity I had been given. Some grin half and senator wicker graciously allowed me to remain on their staff, and entrusted me with additional responsibilities. Working with the statesman has been my great good fortune. The senate armed services committee is the epitome of what our founders intended when they drafted article one of the constitution.
▶ 0:24:22Mr. O'Keefe: The american people should know and be confident that the leadership and members take seriously the responsibility to, as article one, section eight says, provide for the common defense of the united states. It has been the highlight of my professional life to have been able to support all of you. If confirmed, I will take the lessons I learned on this committee to the department of defense.
▶ 0:24:44Mr. O'Keefe: In addition to implement things swiftly the directives of the president and the secretary of defense in a manner consistent with the law, why priorities are , number one, elevate the stature of military service. Number two, improve military and civilian defense talent management, and number three, provide the resources and staffing necessary to stabilize the military health system. I'm happy to go into more details in the q and a, if you like. I thank the committee for considering my nomination and I welcome your questions. Thank you.
▶ 0:25:14Chair Ernst: Thank you, Mr. o'keefe. Now, we have a series of questions we ask of our civilian nominees. Number one, have you adhered to applicable laws and regulations governing conflicts of interest?
▶ 0:25:29Mr. O'Keefe: I have.
▶ 0:25:30Mr. Obadal: Yes.
▶ 0:25:32Chair Ernst: Have you assumed any duties or taken any actions that would appear to presume the outcome of the confirmation process? >> no.
▶ 0:25:40Chair Ernst: Exercising our legislative and oversight responsibility's makes it important that this committee and subcommittees and other appropriate of committees of congress receive testimonies, briefings, reports, records, and other information from the executive branch on a timely basis. You agree, if confirmed, to appear and testify before this committee if requested? >> yes.
▶ 0:26:04Chair Ernst: Do you agree to provide records, documents, and electronic communications in a timely manner when requested by this committee and subcommittees or other appropriate committees of congress, and to consult with the requester, regarding the basis for any good faith delay or denial and providing such records?
▶ 0:26:26Chair Ernst: Will you ensure that your staff complies with deadlines established by this committee for the production of reports, records, and other information, including timely responding to hearing questions on the record? Will you cooperate in providing witnesses and prefers in response to congressional requests? Will those witnesses and prefers be protected from reprisal for their testimony? Thank you very much.
▶ 0:26:58Chair Ernst: And now we will start our rounds of questions. We will have five minutes of time for each senator. And I will start with my questions, and then we will move to the ranking member. Thank you. Good morning. It is good to have you in front of the committee today. Thank you for your testimony today and the willingness to continue to serve in your various capacities.
▶ 0:27:22Chair Ernst: I would like to start with discussion on the army transformation initiative. The ati outlines a bold structural and personnel reform aimed at enhancing combat power and modernization. It rightly focuses on what matters most, which is restoring the warrior eat those, investing in lethality and agility, and ensuring our soldiers are prepared to deter conflict.
▶ 0:27:55Chair Ernst: I appreciate the clear prioritization of combat power, and I support your resolve in tackling inefficiencies. Mr. obadal, can you speak to how this transformation will enhance the army's ability to respond to the threat posed by china and project power more effectively in the indo pacific?
▶ 0:28:18Mr. Obadal: Madam chairwoman, thank you for the time and opportunity to address that. Thank you for the time you spent with me last week to discuss this and other issues. I think that the secretary and the chief have been fairly clear in their statements that the army that has carried us through the last four decades may not have the ability to match the pacing threat with china.
▶ 0:28:48Mr. Obadal: So if we are to reform and transform the army, we have to start that process now and get ahead before we have six months of combat that will point as to the direction we have to go. The overall goals are to have a lighter, leaner, much more technologically savvy, and to essentially from end to end modernize not just technology, but our processes, our
▶ 0:29:19Mr. Obadal: Equipment, our organizations, and our doctrine. Essentially, it is a fundamental transformation of the army so that we can meet china, and not only meet china and succeed, but we can over match.
▶ 0:29:33Chair Ernst: Very good and I do appreciate the effort to align capability investments. You talk about technology. We have unmanned systems. We have counter you a s, and there is artificial intelligence driven command and control. Mr. obadal, what will encourage you or does encourage you the most about how these types of technologies will give our soldiers the edge in tomorrow's fight?
▶ 0:30:03Mr. Obadal: There is two things, madame chairwoman. I believe that number one, the army has already started evolving its acquisition processes, next to the authorities given to it by congress. I believe that we need to continue to maximize those authorities before we come back for more.
▶ 0:30:23Mr. Obadal: But the second is the generation of americans that are joining to become soldiers and officers are far more technically savvy than many of us that joined in the 1990's. Their ability to adopt and innovate, and their ability to understand the problem in front of them and how technology can assist, I think, is a strong thing we have in our back pocket.
▶ 0:30:50Chair Ernst: I appreciate that. I'm going to now turn to you, Mr. o'keefe. A topic I have long prioritized is preventing sexual assault in the ranks. While the recent report showed encouraging signs, with a decline in reporting, we know there is still work to be done to support our survivors.
▶ 0:31:12Chair Ernst: How do you plan to build on the recent reforms and professionalization of the sexual assault response workforce and ensure that we continue moving toward a culture of accountability and trust?
▶ 0:31:26Mr. O'Keefe: Senator, I agree, and appreciate your leadership over the years. This has been a priority for this committee. It is a priority of mine, if confirmed, to ensure we do not backslide. To your point, some recent optimism, perhaps, from the most recent reporting on this. One report is one report, though. We need to see a sustained trend.
▶ 0:31:50Mr. O'Keefe: My goal is to, if confirmed, go in, continue to keep the things that are working, and look at where we can continue to improve. But I sense no desire to the prioritized this. I think all signs are that this department will take it seriously.
▶ 0:32:08Chair Ernst: Most certainly I will hold that to you, and look forward to working with you.
▶ 0:32:13Sen. Reed: Mr. obadal, in the army plan, the transformation initiative, they want to merge with the army futures command.
▶ 0:32:31Sen. Reed: It is deja vu, because in 2018, they created the command so that they could be more effective in acquisition of new equipment, and more fast-moving with the high-tech industries.
▶ 0:32:52Sen. Reed: Coming together, these two agencies again, how would you ensure the kind of oversight that means we are not just retreating?
▶ 0:33:06Mr. O'Keefe: Ranking member, I appreciate that question, because it has generated a lot of interest. And thank you for the time earlier this week that we spent talking about these things. When we go back and we look at what army futures command was pulled out to streamline those requirements, I think that the army has learned quite a bit over those eight years or seven years that that has occurred.
▶ 0:33:32Mr. O'Keefe: We know that we need to, according to the statements of the secretary -- we need to streamline our commands and our organizations. When I look at a merged tray dock and afc, I'm confident the army can utilize the lessons learned in the last several years and apply them.
▶ 0:33:54Mr. O'Keefe: To specifically address your question, I believe it is incumbent on the leadership of the army to give that merged command very specific outcomes and milestones to meet, and define how they are going to streamline the requirements, in the interest of the soldiers and the defense industrial base.
▶ 0:34:16Sen. Reed: Mr. obadal, you are prepared to deal with the transition of the army aviation. As you know, the army canceled the future attack reconnaissance aircraft last year. They have also announced they intend to cancel future tactical and crude aircraft systems. And also there are significant needs among our blackhawk fleet and our apaches. What thoughts do you have on how we can best organize?
▶ 0:34:46Mr. Obadal: Ranking member, as you know, I'm emotionally tied to the 64, the first platform I got to fly in the army. Incredibly capable platform. By developing of the ah 64 deltas, the leadership of the army has said we will save money. It is about twice the cost of flying and ah 64 echo.
▶ 0:35:10Mr. Obadal: That does not fix the fact that as we remove those, we have to fill that capability gap, and that gap has to be with autonomous and unmanned systems to perform the same duties in support of the soldiers on the ground. If confirmed, it is something that I would look at with the rest of the army leadership and advise the secretary on where I think we should apply resources.
▶ 0:35:32Sen. Reed: Mr. o'keefe, and the last three years, the services have been improving the recruiting aspects. In the last 18 months, there has been measurable progress. 2024 was a year where I hope the recruiting turned around and started heading in the right direction. But it is premature to declare victory.
▶ 0:35:58Sen. Reed: There are so many factors that encourage or discourage a recruit from coming in. What are a few things you want to do to set the military up for success in recruiting?
▶ 0:36:13Mr. O'Keefe: Senator, yes, this is going to continue to be an emphasis area that is not going to get easier. Just as a point of information, this is the peak of high school graduation, in terms of the heisel population. From now to the foreseeable future, the high school graduation class is went to get smaller, so it is going to get harder to recruit. The department needs to continue to deploy resources, marketing, people introducing military service.
▶ 0:36:42Mr. O'Keefe: As I mentioned in mypening statement, what I mean by improving the stature of military service -- there is a growing disconnect in the country between those who serve in those who don't have any experience with it. Oftentimes, they have an inaccurate assessment of what military service really means. The data suggest that for the most part, people who served our country in uniform, much better for having done so.
▶ 0:37:07Mr. O'Keefe: I think the department needs to do a better job of telling its story, of selling itself and appealing to the smaller cohort that is eligible in propensity to serve. -- eligible and propensed to serve.
▶ 0:37:23Sen. Rounds: Thank you to both of you and your families for allowing you to continue your service to our country. Mr. obadal, the army has exhibited outstanding leadership in developing our cyber war fighters and should be commended. I was at port eisenhower in july last year, and I was impressed with the cyber center of excellence and army cyber command. Dakota state university and army cyber command have a very special relationship.
▶ 0:37:53Sen. Rounds: Dsu provides both professors and professional training for the armies. And the army allows cyber operators to help teach classes and provide training at dsu. The army has sponsored the reaccreditation for the mutual benefit of both organizations. Unfortunately, the reaccreditation has been delayed by bureaucratic hurdles and inertia for months.
▶ 0:38:21Sen. Rounds: I do believe we are on the verge of finally completing this endeavor and getting that skiff re-accredited. Would you commit to expediting the reaccreditation in madison, south dakota, and the accreditation of the new skiff facility in sioux falls?
▶ 0:38:38Chair Ernst: Thank you for the question and for the time we spent last week talking about cyber in the army. As I have said, I believe cyber is ubiquitous. The operations are ubiquitous, protecting our forces and being able to apply effects on the adversary without kinetic use of weapons.
▶ 0:39:04Chair Ernst: Anything that advances that capability for army cyber command, I would be wholeheartedly in support of, if confirmed. And I would commit to trying to understand the issue and why the skiff accreditation for those facilities was taking so long.
▶ 0:39:20Sen. Rounds: I will take that as "you will work with us and we will get to the bottom of this."
▶ 0:39:26Mr. Obadal: Absolutely.
▶ 0:39:30Sen. Rounds: Mr. o'keefe, this army has provided special authority to the department of defense so it can better manage its military and civilian cyber personnel. You have worked on much of that legislation. In your judgment, how useful are these authorities, and what more can be done to improve talent management and cyber professionals?
▶ 0:39:55Mr. O'Keefe: This committee has taken interest in ensuring the department of defense can appeal to this highly technical workforce, with the military and civilian side. In my judgment, I think the cyber acceptance service, currently in place, is a good start. I continue to hear stories that we are losing civilians out of cyber command to other government agencies who have perhaps more flexible authorities. I think that is an area to take a look at.
▶ 0:40:28Mr. O'Keefe: Working with the cio and our friend Ms. sutton, if confirmed, I think there is a potential to work with the congress to make cyber acceptance service more appealing and more effective. Certainly, dod perhaps may struggle competing with the private sector. There are certain things the private sector can do. But it should not be the case that dod is losing talent to other government agencies. We should be on an even footing there.
▶ 0:40:54Mr. O'Keefe: On the military side, I am encouraged by the things I am seeing out of the army. They have robust talent management, a group that has taken the lead on using many authorities the congress has provided. Things like accelerated potions, different ways to more flexibly structure a career. That is encouraging as well.
▶ 0:41:21Mr. O'Keefe: On the military side, I think there is more room to better integrate the active and reserve components. In cyber, that is perhaps a particularly useful approach, as the private sector tends to be where you get a lot of the innovation. I want to be sure the reserve components are a place where we can bring talent back into the government who have that relevant and critical private sector experience.
▶ 0:41:49Sen. Rounds: I think your technical expertise, your capabilities, and your background -- I look forward to supporting your nominations over the next few days, or as quickly as possible. Thank you.
▶ 0:42:05Chair Ernst: Senator king?
▶ 0:42:08Sen. King: I am impressed by the upgrade in the chairmanship of this committee. That is between you and me and not senator wicker. Mr. obadal, one of the most difficult things is to transform the culture and the organization of a 200-year-old organization. There is a lot of inertia, if you will. Talk to me about how you put into tackle that.
▶ 0:42:37Sen. King: It is not just changing boxes on an organizational chart. How do you make a change at the level that is necessary to be ready for the next conflict?
▶ 0:42:51Mr. Obadal: Thank you for the question. It goes to the root of the army, which is culture. The army is a service that is about human beings. Machines are there to ensure that our human beings are as effective as possible. When it comes to senior and executive level leadership, I believe there are two tracks that you have to put attention to simultaneously.
▶ 0:43:20Mr. Obadal: The technical aspects of management -- that is setting the course and resource management decisions that have to be made -- setting milestones and clear objectives. The other side is leadership. That is a bit more difficult to define on paper.
▶ 0:43:36Mr. Obadal: It takes senior leaders and subordinate leaders, down to the squad and team level, to ensure that we are fostering the cultural -- the culture that the secretary and the chief set for our uniformed and civilian personnel. When it comes to changing that, I acknowledge that as you said it is incredibly difficult.
▶ 0:44:05Sen. King: To change the culture but not destroy the positive aspects of the culture.
▶ 0:44:09Mr. Obadal: I think you have to state with the values are of our army. Those need to be not only reiterated so that soldiers understand them and civilians understand them, but leaders need to engage in the formations and have those discussions, so there is something behind it.
▶ 0:44:26Sen. King: Let's move for a minute to numbers and staff. Everyone in this committee is in favor of efficiency and spending our tax dollars as efficiently as possible and avoiding unnecessary expenditures. What bothers me about the approach that is being taken is that it starts with a number and then works backward. In other words, 8% reduction, 15% reduction.
▶ 0:44:56Sen. King: To me, that almost guarantees a result that won't be optimal. It should start with how are we doing and where are the positions we can consolidate or eliminate, not working toward an arbitrary number and saying -- I hope that you will resist in the army a mandate to say you have got to reduce by 8%. That is almost by definition not a rational approach to the problem of increasing efficiency.
▶ 0:45:25Sen. King: You do that by analyzing the organization and the personnel and the future demands. Talk to me about whether you are willing to simply say "ok, boss. If it is 8%, we are going to reduce it a percent," even if that would undermine capability.
▶ 0:45:46Mr. Obadal: I believe that reduction drills, recapitalization drills, regardless of the number, are healthy for an organization on a regular basis.
▶ 0:45:56Sen. King: I don't disagree. It is whether you start with an analysis of the organization or with an arbitrary number that will mandate changes that may not be helpful.
▶ 0:46:06Mr. Obadal: I believe that when you look at restructuring or retype a live site -- recapitalizing, you should look at -- what are the requirements from the combatant commands. Can we meet those combatant command requirements, and do so in a timely manner? I believe that is the foundation of what the army should do.
▶ 0:46:28Sen. King: I agree. I appreciate that answer. Mr. o'keefe, I am running out of time. We had a tragedy in maine several years ago with a shooting. 18 people killed. It turned out that the fellow had been a trainer exposed to blast, blast overpressure. There was a lot of work done at the time.
▶ 0:46:50Sen. King: I hope you will commit to maintaining network, and to be sure that what was learned in those various reports that were made gets down to the troop level, so that it is not just a report on the shelf in the pentagon, it actually affects conduct. This is one of the most serious problems coming out of the mideast wars, is the effects of continuous exposure to blast.
▶ 0:47:17Mr. Obadal: You absolutely have my commitment. -- Mr. o'keefe: you have a lot -- you have my commitment. A lot of work will take place over the next year or so. I look forward to implement in the legislation and working with this committee. We are learning more about this area every day, it seems. It is affecting more people. Absolutely, you have my commitment. This is a priority.
▶ 0:47:43Sen. King: You use the magic word, implementation. Implementation can be as important as vision. We can have a good bill coming out of here. If it is not implemented adequately, it is not going to save lives. I look forward to working with you on it. Thank you.
▶ 0:48:00Chair Ernst: Thank you, senator king, and I appreciate your support. Next, we have senator tuberville.
▶ 0:48:08Sen. Tuberville: Thank you, senator ernst. Mr. obadal, thank you for your service, first of all. Coming from and to real industry -- is that correct? Is that how you pronounce it? One of our new defense contractors has taken a novel approach to creating a war fighter.
▶ 0:48:33Sen. Tuberville: Companies like this have become successful because of defense contracting and organizations, such as the one headquartered in my state of alabama. We are making progress. How can the army continue to improve our acquisition system, based on the lessons learned from the rc cto?
▶ 0:48:56Mr. Obadal: Senator, thank you for the question, as this is a critical part of army transformation. I believe it really showed us that we can rapidly understand the problem, innovate solutions with industry, and field them rapidly in a number of different ways.
▶ 0:49:18Mr. Obadal: My experience in commercial industry, and specifically the defense technology industry, gave me exposure to a number of different companies dealing with the acquisition corps, and coming been on both sides of the table and having overseen acquisitions in my government service, I came to the conclusion that the army needs to be a better customer, and we need to do that through streamlining our requirements, through predictability of requirements, and not changing
▶ 0:49:50Mr. Obadal: Them and moving the goal posts on the defense industry. With that said, we always have to have agile requirements, which requires modularity, both software and hardware. If confirmed, when I look at the entire acquisition corps, I believe that people -- we have fantastic people in our acquisition corps who have given us the world's strongest army. It is our process is that we have to fix. If confirmed, senator, I would work diligently on that.
▶ 0:50:22Sen. Tuberville: Last week, the army announced the ati initiative, headed in a different direction in some areas. I understand that. I'm an old football coach. You cannot keep doing the same thing over and over. You need to change along with your adversary, and we obviously need to do that. Part of this change last week, the canceling of multiple programs -- one of these was an uncool aircraft system.
▶ 0:50:50Sen. Tuberville: It was won by a small family business in alabama, my home state, griffin aerospace. On friday, they were notified that the thousands of man-hours and millions of dollars they had spent and invested in good faith were basically wasted. It is hard to understand that, from their perspective. I would like to suggest to you that the army restore faith with these type of businesses, because we need the smaller businesses. This is not lockheed. This is not boeing.
▶ 0:51:21Sen. Tuberville: They could really absorb this. This is going to devastate this country. At the end of the day, they need more than an "oops." do you agree with that?
▶ 0:51:35Mr. Obadal: Senator, I wholeheartedly agree that the army needs to take care of small business as best they can, and I believe there are a number of different ways we can do that. Small business, in my experience, is where most of the innovation comes from. And obviously, large companies, like you mentioned, build us exquisite weapon systems, and we need them. We have to make sure we are cultivating a robust small and medium-sized business ecosystem.
▶ 0:52:03Sen. Tuberville: In huntsville, we have probably 600 to 800 small defense contractors. They got bought out, obviously, regularly, but we need to make sure that for future innovation, they are as important as anybody. Thank you for that. Mr. o'keefe, my role as chairman of the subcommittee on personnel -- the first hearing with their supervisors of our academies -- the first one in 30 years.
▶ 0:52:33Sen. Tuberville: Not only are you a graduate -- one of the things during that hearing -- permanent military professors at the academies require senate confirmation. Civilian tenured faculty are not , making them, as far as I can tell, the only lifetime government employees not subject to advice and consent. How do you feel about that?
▶ 0:52:56Mr. O'Keefe: Senator, it is an interesting dynamic when permanent professors were set up, decades ago. The majority of the faculty was all military at the service academies. I suppose the concern, anytime you are discussing whether to make more civilian positions senate confirmed is perhaps extended vacancies.
▶ 0:53:23Mr. O'Keefe: I do think that there is some room to evaluate the administrative faculty authority. They have a slightly nuanced statutory scheme. They did not always have tenure, for example -- for instance.
▶ 0:53:40Mr. O'Keefe: I think that is something that should be evaluated, which I think could improve sort of the effectiveness of the workforce, of the faculty mix, without perhaps causing some of the vacancies that I think might result with senate confirmation. I do think that is an area to take a look at. I know the secretary has mentioned that is something to take a look at as well.
▶ 0:54:08Sen. Tuberville: When confirmed, I have some suggestions about transforming our military academies. Make them better. We don't want to do something just to do it. We need to make them better and grow with the times. I look forward to visiting with you on that and working with you.
▶ 0:54:21Chair Ernst: Thank you. Next, we have senator peters.
▶ 0:54:26Sen. Peters: Good to see you again, Mr. obadal. I certainly enjoyed our conversation in my office prior to today's hearing. As we were sitting in the office, the army transformation initiative had just come out. We had an opportunity to talk about that some in the office. I wanted to follow-up, because I know you needed more time to take a look at that.
▶ 0:54:53Sen. Peters: We talked, if you recall, about the detroit arsenal and vehicle center, which are really the center and the heart of the army's research and development acquisition and supply chain issues. I'm concerned about what impact this could have. I wanted to reach out to you again and ask if you had a chance to review it, and what sort of impact do you think it will have on detroit. This is something we can certainly work on together.
▶ 0:55:22Mr. Obadal: Senator, thank you for the time you spent with me in your office and the discussion on this. I think as we have seen the secretary and the chief testify yesterday, a number of topline issues that now we need to get into the second level of detail on army transformation.
▶ 0:55:41Mr. Obadal: This is the work over the next several months that we have to do not only internal to the army, but with the combatant commands, and importantly with congress, to understand what are the effects on facilities like what you mentioned. Because especially in michigan, right, as a vehicle hub for the army -- the army is and still will be a vehicle-centric service.
▶ 0:56:12Mr. Obadal: It is just a matter of what types of vehicles will have capabilities. These are the things over the course of this year, if confirmed, I would look forward to working with you, your office, and this committee on.
▶ 0:56:26Sen. Peters: I appreciate that. If confirmed, I'm sure we will want to work very closely. A valuable product for the army. I want to make sure that continues and look forward to working with you. Also, we talked about the army shifting its focus to the indo pacific.
▶ 0:56:43Sen. Peters: He talked about multi-domain taskforces and how those are the centerpiece of army efforts in the region, allowing the joint force to operate freely within contested environments, with the active duty right now. As we discussed in my office, I believe the national guard can play a very important role.
▶ 0:57:06Sen. Peters: I would like you, if you would, to elaborate on the discussion in your office about some of the potential benefits you see of a national guard multi-domain task force.
▶ 0:57:20Mr. Obadal: Senator, as we discussed, I see the multi-domain task force as an area where almost all of advanced war fighting systems are coming together in one organization -- space, cyber, long-range precision fighters, and others, under one command. I think that the army is going to continue to refine the tactics that -- the tactics, procedures, and resources required.
▶ 0:57:49Mr. Obadal: And we will have to have that very robust discussion about how we extend that into the reserve components, because they are strategic depth, the national guard and reserve. If confirmed, I would look forward to continuing that conversation.
▶ 0:58:07Sen. Peters: Congratulations, Mr. o'keefe, on your nomination. The national guard not only supports domestic emergencies like natural disasters, would also dod's global military operations, in a robust way. If confirmed, you will be responsible for readiness of guard units across the country, including those in michigan, as well as suffrage in her national guard base.
▶ 0:58:31Sen. Peters: In your role, you are going to have to balance the national guard's readiness with active and reserve components. Unfortunately, despite their critical role, the national guard is often underfunded, understaffed in comparison to other components. If confirmed, how will you address the persistent shortfalls in national guard resourcing, especially given their role as an operational force for the last two decades, and not just strategic reserves?
▶ 0:58:57Mr. O'Keefe: Senator, I agree. Over the last two decades, the role of the reserve component to the national guard in particular has changed dramatically from the way it was perhaps set up as the cold war ended. I don't know that the department has ever seriously consider the implications of that.
▶ 0:59:16Mr. O'Keefe: I do think this is a time when, as we are seeing transformation efforts in at least a few of the services -- this is a time where I think the department can apply a little more rigor to figure out what is the proper role of the reserve component. How do we resource them? What are we going to use them for? These are classic force makes questions. Personal readiness should be the lead.
▶ 0:59:42Mr. O'Keefe: They are the subject matter experts across the department on force makes allocation. I look forward, if confirmed, to working with the secretary and the departments to help them as they are thinking their way through this, in light of what we think are the likely requirements facing the entire force.
▶ 1:00:02Sen. Peters: Thank you, gentlemen.
▶ 1:00:04Sen. Cotton: Mr. obadal, the army has begun to modernize the industrial base but is still not fully using arsenal and ammunition plants, and arsenal such as the one in pine bluff are struggling. This underutilization is particularly damaging during mission shortage that would impact our ability to face china. Do you believe the army should utilize the resources that already owns to maximize production of critical munitions?
▶ 1:00:35Mr. Obadal: Senator, thank you for the question and attention to this. I believe our almost two dozen plants, arsenals, depots -- are strategic depth to be able to sustain combat operations -- I share your concern for the health of the organic industrial base in the army.
▶ 1:00:57Sen. Cotton: Part of the former secretary's response to the recruiting crisis she hoped create was to cut 3000 billets from army special operations forces, a decision that other commanders advised against. Last year's national defense authorization act for him it's these cuts until the army secretary completes an additional assessment. Would you agree to taking a closer look at reversing these cuts?
▶ 1:01:26Mr. Obadal: Yes, senator. I would commit to continuing that evaluation, as the army is doing right now.
▶ 1:01:36Sen. Cotton: The case on platoon at the arlington national cemetery was out of operation for much of the biden administration, which was astonishing to me since it is just horses pulling wagons, something human beings have been doing since the dawn of time. Secretary driscoll and general george have done a good job of getting the platoon back to limited operations.
▶ 1:01:58Sen. Cotton: I'm very keen to see it get back to full operational capacity, to make sure that our soldiers and their families probably receive the honors they deserve at arlington national cemetery. Can you commit to working with the secretary, general george, and this committee, to get the platoon back to full operational capacity as soon as possible?
▶ 1:02:16Mr. Obadal: Yes, senator. I believe it to be a critical part of arlington national cemetery. I understand there have already been big strides made in professionalizing this program. I would commit to continuing to monitor that and advance it.
▶ 1:02:35Sen. Cotton: Civil service reform is long overdue. While the department of defense has many dedicated civil servants, it also has a lot of elevated bureaucratic processes and in fixable performance management systems that have too often not rewarded excellence, and promoted mediocrity.
▶ 1:02:54Sen. Cotton: In late january, the administration issued guidance for all agencies to conduct a 210 day review of which positions could be reclassified as career policy positions, give the president and secretary more ability to manage the civilian workforce. What are your thoughts about this review and the possible implementation and what it could help bring to the department?
▶ 1:03:18Mr. O'Keefe: Senator, I do think it is overdue to take a look at the authorities that apply to the national security and defense civilian workforce. I think this is a useful exercise. And of course the civilians will continue to be a critical component of the dod workforce. They have been for many years now. If confirmed, I look forward to participating in that review.
▶ 1:03:46Mr. O'Keefe: I don't know the details of that exact effort. I do think civil service reform for national security workers is critically important. The department has a variety of authorities the congress has already provided, that in my judgment are being underutilized. I mention cyber acceptance service earlier. There are many others. Direct hire authority has been provided many times over the last decade, and yet it still takes almost three months to hire somebody.
▶ 1:04:17Mr. O'Keefe: I think some of these delays and challenges are somewhat self-imposed. If confirmed, I look forward to figuring out where the department is making things harder for itself then it should be. The congress enacts these authorities for a reason -- that they be used effectively. If confirmed, that is sort of one of my goals, as I mentioned in the opening statement -- is taking advantage of the many authorities the congress has provided, as well as implementing the directive of the president in this area.
▶ 1:04:47Sen. Cotton: Thank you both.
▶ 1:04:51Sen. Kelly: Mr. obadal, last week, secretary driscoll and general george sent a letter to the army on the new army transformation initiative to implement secretary hegseth's directive. This directive emphasize that the army must prioritize investments in existing resources to improve electronic warfare capabilities, among other things. To this point at least, I agree.
▶ 1:05:17Sen. Kelly: We need to be doing everything we can to prepare our military for a potential next fight, and electronic warfare is a critical part of that. That is why I am concerned that the U.S. army tested evaluation command may have a plan that would disproportionately impact certain critical test centers and result in long-term consequences for testing and evaluation, and also readiness.
▶ 1:05:45Sen. Kelly: A tech provides critical evaluation capabilities and informs senior leaders. They have been committed to ensuring tests and evaluation occur across varied climates and unique geographies, from the arctic regions test center to the tropic regions test center and yuma test center, which provides extreme weather testing in a realistic environment.
▶ 1:06:13Sen. Kelly: In addition, the electronic proving ground at fort what you got -- at fort wachuka has a freelance environment and ability to use environment attesting due to its unique geography. Mr. obadal, if confirmed as the undersecretary secretary of the army, he will have a critical role in executing the new army transformation initiative.
▶ 1:06:40Sen. Kelly: How will you ensure the army prepares for future advanced electronic warfare threats?
▶ 1:06:47Mr. Obadal: Senator, thank you for the question. I would like to acknowledge the critical services that a tech and a number of facilities around the country, including wachuka and yuma, that it maintains. We have a strategic direction from the secretary of defense and the secretary of the army for the army transformation initiative.
▶ 1:07:14Mr. Obadal: In the coming months, the second level of detail -- how do we streamline our organizations to ensure that we are providing the best equipment to our soldiers? Testing that equipment can take place in a number of different ways. A tech is one of those, as well as testing and the transformation and contact brigades that have been, by all accounts, successful in the last couple of years.
▶ 1:07:42Sen. Kelly: Can you elaborate on that? Is the army doing developmental testing and operational units?
▶ 1:07:52Mr. Obadal: Senator, essentially it is bringing capabilities at a smaller scale to pre-gade and below level organizations, and allowing soldiers to experiment with this at training centers and on maneuvers.
▶ 1:08:12Mr. Obadal: And then giving that feedback and that cycle right back to the innovators, so they can go back and change those capabilities and give the feedback directly to the senior leadership of the army as they make decisions.
▶ 1:08:24Sen. Kelly: Typically, it my experience in the navy, is that is sort of operational testing. You put it out to a real unit. It's something that is more further developed than a developmental test process, which is what a tech does. Do you agree that disproportionately slashing our electronic worker test centers would harm the army's electronic or for capabilities?
▶ 1:08:54Mr. Obadal: Senator, I don't have enough information. I would commit to pulling together the right experts and be able to advise the secretary.
▶ 1:09:06Sen. Kelly: This is my view on this. This is not an area where we can afford to make a mistake. If the army does make a decision to riff a highly specialized civilian workforce in remote locations, it is not going to be easy to reverse course on this. If you are confirmed, I encourage you to take a very close look and consider how this could ultimately impact the war fighter and the kind of combat equipment they get.
▶ 1:09:38Sen. Kelly: And to make sure that we don't make a mistake that is kind of hard to reverse.
▶ 1:09:46Mr. Obadal: You have my absolute commitment to that.
▶ 1:09:50Sen. Kaine: Congratulations to the witnesses. I had a good conversation with general george and secretary driscoll. They called about the army transformation initiatives. I applaud its boldness and being quick out of the blocks. Looking at the details, I will tell both of you the cautions are questions I raised in that phone conversation.
▶ 1:10:16Sen. Kaine: The first was, some of the discussions about reduction of personnel, top rank headquarters reduction -- I think probably they need to be done, but I just warned them, in this committee a number of years ago, Mr. o'keefe, you probably remember -- reduction and headquarters staff was a driving theme one year, and at the time, I warned against across-the-board reductions, and argued that they should be done based on performance and priorities.
▶ 1:10:47Sen. Kaine: The mandate to reduce headquarters staff went ahead. A few years later, we had a huge crisis in military housing. And what we realized is that the directive to reduce headquarters staff and been implemented by reducing massive swathes of people at the pentagon who were working on military housing. So while not lifting blame off the shoulders of the providers of housing, it really was a program that was not being managed by the pentagon because no one was responsible for it.
▶ 1:11:16Sen. Kaine: I do think reductions are often important. But they should be based on priorities and not try to get some across-the-board number. The second thing -- questions of been asked about this already. The proposed merger of army futures and tradoc. That was established in 1972.
▶ 1:11:44Sen. Kaine: Army futures was pulled out of it about six years ago. Mr. obadal, I credit what you said that you hope lessons have been learned in that time. When it is reassembled, I hope those lessons carry forward. There has been discussion about when it is reassembled.
▶ 1:12:03Sen. Kaine: Will trade out -- tradoc, the 50-year-old organization, be put under the 60-year-old -- the sixth road organization, or vice versa? Is that even the way you look at it? I was assured there would not be significant change in plans at fort eustis. I'm obviously going to be following that closely.
▶ 1:12:26Sen. Kaine: I do hope you are right, and I suspect you will be working to focus on this, but those lessons learned during the six or so years at army futures can be reinserted back into the merged organization and help it be effective. Those are the observations I made to general george and secretary driscoll. I delight in the broader initiative, and I would make those same observations to you. Some questions, one for each of you -- Mr.
▶ 1:12:53Sen. Kaine: Obadal, the committee has been really focused on understanding drone incursions that occurred at langley eustis and in new york and new jersey. The challenge is a whole of government -- not justilitary, but civilian. But the army is dod's executive agent for countering small uhf's -- you af -- uaf's.
▶ 1:13:21Sen. Kaine: It is responsible for the training standards and solutions for addressing current and future small threats. Should you be confirmed, how will you ensure coordination between the services and developing joint counter small uaf's doctrine to help with this growing threat?
▶ 1:13:39Mr. Obadal: It is unimportant and critical issue, as we have seen over the years. In my mind, as the executive agent, the army has to consider two different buckets. One is the technical aspects of how do you layer technical protection, and alsocomplicatedd protection, and alsocomplicateds and overseas because they had to be less kinetic and more electronic. Also the layers of authorities.
▶ 1:14:07Mr. Obadal: Whether that is state, local, the faa and department of defense and then to partner justice comes in with enforcement of these things. Those are very difficult tasks. If confirmed there are things that I would look at from that aspect is how do we lay are not only our capabilities but how do we effectively layer our authorities. The other problem I think has been addressed is there is no single end to end authority in the army for this.
▶ 1:14:37Sen. Kaine: Thank you. Mr. o'keefe, congratulations. We had a good visit in my office. I'm going ask about one of your three stated priorities that we discussed in my office which is working on sort of tricare customer satisfaction, the defense health agency, especially the problem in getting providers compensated and untimely way. If you don't do that -- in a timely way.
▶ 1:15:05Sen. Kaine: If you don't get that, they choose not to because they can't be compensated. We have had a lot of complaints about that. We had a good discussion in the office. I will ask about that for the record. I appreciate your service and congratulations to both of you.
▶ 1:15:22Sen. Blumenthal: . Congratulations to both of you. Mr. o'keefe, I led the passage of a measure called the xavier sander act which is named in honor of a young sailor from connecticut who took his own life while serving on uss george washington. His ship was in maintenance. He was enduring unacceptably poor living conditions while the ship was in for repair.
▶ 1:15:58Sen. Blumenthal: Too many junior enlisted service members have been forced to live aboard vessels while they are under repair without air-conditioning, without meals, without rest effectively. And with limited access to amenities and mental health support. The navy now has expanded authorities to provide sailors with the basic allowance for housing as a result of this act. They can live in commercial housing. They have increased access to mental health support.
▶ 1:16:32Sen. Blumenthal: No servicemember should suffer as xavier did. I am still in touch with his father, his family, and other service members. I would like your commitment you will fully support implementation of the xavier's intersect.
▶ 1:16:46Mr. O'Keefe: Absolutely. It was a privilege to work with you. I know your office worked with the navy in working with that post of a great case study with the congress and department of defense and services when working together on a problem can really come up with some very effective solutions. Thank you for working on that.
▶ 1:17:05Sen. Blumenthal: I would like a commitment, if you're confirmed, will send me a report on the usage of these authorities say by the end of the year.
▶ 1:17:15Mr. Okeefe: Absolutely.
▶ 1:17:18Sen. Blumenthal: Mr. obadal, I know you serve in the army for 30 years and left for the private sector. The company where you are now andrew industries is a major defense firm with millions of dollars of contracts with the dod. Will you commit to sell the stock you own in that company?
▶ 1:17:46Mr. Obadal: I appreciate the opportunity to address that. I believe in two things. Transparency and very strong ethical guidelines. As with every potential senior government official, I have gone through an exhaustive process with the office of government at the and they have done a thorough review and presented me with the guidelines.
▶ 1:18:14Mr. Obadal: I will abide by all of those guidelines, as I always have, I will abide by the law.
▶ 1:18:21Sen. Blumenthal: Is that yes or no?
▶ 1:18:22Mr. Obadal: My restrictions and my refusals are laid out in my -- recusals are laid out.
▶ 1:18:31Sen. Blumenthal: My understanding is you are not selling the stock?
▶ 1:18:35Mr. Obadal: That is detailed in my agreement that I will retain that.
▶ 1:18:40Sen. Blumenthal: Doesn't create an appearance of conflict of interest?
▶ 1:18:43Mr. Obadal: Under section 1117 of the 22 ndaa, I am recused at large from anything having to do personally and substantially with my former employer.
▶ 1:18:58Sen. Blumenthal: Well, not asking you whether you are recused, I'm asking about the appearance of owning stock in a company that has major contracts with the dod where you are in charge of essentially administering the army. The interest of that company could be affected whether or not you are recused from the specific contract. It is still an appearance of conflict of interest.
▶ 1:19:28Sen. Blumenthal: I'm not going to debate with you but, you know, in this administration, it may seem minor as a conflict of interest given that the president of the united states is selling crypto and inviting people to the white house who buy his meme coin and making hundreds of millions of dollars from transactions in that coin.
▶ 1:19:55Sen. Blumenthal: I think he has lowered the bar irretrievably, but it still is really regrettable. Let me go on to another topic. I understand there may be a parade on june 14 to celebrate the president's birthday. Do you support that use of $30 million, $50 million, prep $60 million?
▶ 1:20:22Mr. Obadal: I can only comment on what I know. I do not know the cost of a parade. I do know the army is celebrating its 250th birthday on june 14 with a parade that will showcase soldiers --.
▶ 1:20:39Sen. Blumenthal: What amount of expenditure would be appropriate in your view? Mr. obadal I can't comment on that because I'm not in the department. I can't make an assessment on the effects.
▶ 1:20:51Sen. Blumenthal: Let me ask you hypothetically, would not it be a better use of army funds for training, for care of the troops, for housing -- not to mention thousands of veterans who have been fired from the v.a., supposedly coming to save money. Wouldn't those be better uses of that money?
▶ 1:21:11Mr. Obadal: I am not going to engage in hypothetical. I will say the military from the dod at large, does a number of things like this to increase awareness and to use as a recruiting and appreciation tool for the citizens of the united states.
▶ 1:21:28Sen. Blumenthal: I am against celebrating the army's birthday. What I would ask you to oppose is the use of anywhere from $40 million to $50 million as has been publicly reported. Thank you.
▶ 1:21:40Chair Ernst: Next we have senator slotkin.
▶ 1:21:44Sen. Slotkin: Thank you for being here. A couple of questions. Mr. obadal, similar vein. We understand your from enteral and no one bubbles with that, company that does a lot of good work with the defense department. If I am hearing correctly, you are not going to divest from all of your stock.
▶ 1:22:13Sen. Slotkin: I know you have a deal, but the average soldier as you know would have to be open about what stock they have, what conflict of interest they may have if they were a contracting officer. So you are keeping some of your stock and selling others, correct?
▶ 1:22:27Mr. Obadal: Senator, it is not stock. Andarol is not a public company, it is equity. I will act in adherence with the guidelines. I will always act in accordance with the law.
▶ 1:22:50Sen. Slotkin: Will that agreement be made public so we can understand? You have a perception problem, right? This administration looks around every corner like it is milking the cow of america with conflict of interest, doing things we have never seen before. Charging to get into the white house, setting up as we heard cryptocurrency that the president of united states and his family are backing. We already have reports of people buying them cryptocurrency so they can get some relief on tariffs.
▶ 1:23:22Sen. Slotkin: The perception problem is real. We don't want you to have that perception problem. You're leading an incredibly or potentially leading an incredibly important institution in our country. We commit to making that deal publicly leads to this committee? >> without a doubt. I welcome the transparency.
▶ 1:23:38Sen. Slotkin: I understand -- I mean, the concern is just this past week, the army announced its transformation initiative and a huge amount of that is geared toward drones and other things that anduril, your current company, is nick deep in.
▶ 1:24:00Sen. Slotkin: We don't have -- I don't have an inherent problem with the transformation, I have a problem with the idea, the perception to our troops, that their leaders can do things that they themselves cannot. At their leaders might be able to do -- enrich themselves or get away with security clearance violations that they themselves cannot. As a former c.I.a.
▶ 1:24:22Sen. Slotkin: Officer -- you yourself as a former soldier, you know that sense of injustice when you're at the bottom of the food chain and you see a doing something differently. I am glad you're willing to make it public, given the amount of transformation that will potentially enrich a place like anduril, what else are you going to do -- again, so there is not even a whiff you're making transformational decisions about the army to enrich herself and others you work with?
▶ 1:24:49Mr. Obadal: I appreciate the opportunity to address it more in-depth. It comes down to if confirmed, one of the first things to do is work through with the office of general counsel the implementation guidance of any recruit soul --recusal and then make sure daily I am adhering to that and doing regular reviews with ogc.
▶ 1:25:14Sen. Slotkin: It would help us greatly in our working relationship if you just provided that to the committee so we understand, so when we are asked, we can say, yes, there is a major transformation going on in the army. It will be difficult for a lot of us, a lot of our home states, but if you want us to be bought in as I know your leadership does because they called us this week, then please make sure we understand there is not a milking of the cow going on for folks at the top of the army.
▶ 1:25:46Sen. Slotkin: Mr. o'keefe, I asked her potential future boss this past week about access to the data of every single soldier, airman, marine in the entire force, right? You are the holder of everyone's personal information. Health information. Everything on their spouses, where they live. Pete had set has said he welcomes doge in. Doge has shown they cannot properly handle that data.
▶ 1:26:14Sen. Slotkin: There's been an agency, the nlrb, where they got access to the beta -- data, the chinese followed them and went after it. Within like ours. I'm not saying it is intentional but the idea of the sensitivity of this data personally and as a national security issue, Mr. tate is that he would "sign a contract with doge." do you commit to providing that contract on the sensitive control of data to this committee?
▶ 1:26:41Mr. Okeefe: Absolutely. Whatever agreements or the structure of the sort of access to any sort of critical information, happy to work with the committee in your office to make sure you have confidence in the department's ability to synchronize -- as you said, this is critical, very sensitive information. Health records. Addresses. The department knows more about its workforce and perhaps any other federal agency.
▶ 1:27:12Mr. Okeefe: For good reason. It comes with a lot of trust. If confirmed, you have my commitment that trust is well-placed.
▶ 1:27:21Sen. Slotkin: We look for to that contract with doge.
▶ 1:27:22Chair Ernst: Thank you. Just for the committee's awareness, the committee has received all of Mr. obadal's information. We have that and it is also publicly available on the government website. There is a government ethics website. We all have access to that information. Mr. obadal has been completely transparent and has been adhering to the rules of this committee. Next we have senator duckworth.
▶ 1:27:54Sen. Duckworth: I want to thank you both for a very productive conversation you had with me prior to this hearing. Mr. obadal, given this week's announcement of army transformation I want to start with you first. We had a great conversation. It is no secret I'm deeply committed to our army and its future. I support army modernization but we must balance modernization with readiness today.
▶ 1:28:17Sen. Duckworth: To be clear, I am encouraged by parts of the army's proposed reforms, however, I am concerned about the impacts some proposed cuts to the joint forces sustainment and supply enterprise. We discussed this a little bit. I worry how the proposed integration of joints munitions command and army sustainment command may impact their two critical mission sets, including managing complex ecosystems required to deliver emissions to war fighters for the army but also the joint force.
▶ 1:28:46Sen. Duckworth: And also as the army considers replacing the humvee, I urge the army to consider impacts to medical evacuation capabilities. The humvee is one of the -- really the main source of army's ambulances platforms. Mr. obadal, we commit to engaging with me early before final decisions are made so we can fully communicate and help the army address the far-reaching impacts of cuts like these?
▶ 1:29:11Mr. Obadal: Absolutely. Thank you for the time you spent with me.
▶ 1:29:18Sen. Duckworth: Thank you. Mr. o'keefe, turning to you, if confirmed, you will be a key advisor to secretary hegseth. As you know come every service member does take a physical fitness test at least annually. It is required for continued service and promotion. I took one every year for 23 years. Some years more than once.
▶ 1:29:41Sen. Duckworth: On top of that, specific combat military occupational specialties like army rangers for example already have metaphysical -- physical standards. The services have combat job specific physical testing which is actually what makes our forces capable of carrying out the full range of types of combat roles. Do you acknowledge the military already has uniform physical standards specific to different occupational specialties that is the same for both male and female troops?
▶ 1:30:08Mr. Okeefe: I don't know the details of every physical fitness requirement for every occupational specialty. I have been informed that many of them do at least. I don't know every job.
▶ 1:30:25Sen. Duckworth: But the combat roles, especially the rangers, seals, those all have one standard that are not gender differentiated.
▶ 1:30:34Mr. Obadal: Again, I don't know the details of every position in the units. I do believe many of them do.
▶ 1:30:41Sen. Duckworth: Not all combat roles are the same. Physical and mental to operate an attack helicopter are different than their strength needed to lift a mortar tube or different than endurance required of a scout sniper, for example. The fact of the matter is the services already tested the most applicable physical requirements for specific combat role.
▶ 1:31:06Sen. Duckworth: For example, the marines have military occupational specialty specific physical standards which are mission-specific and both men and women have to meet the same standard in the army also has sex neutral standards for every occupational specialty. Have combat jobs already have gender-neutral physical qualifications, why change is secretary hegseth actually making? He has his sights on creating come again his words, general neutral combat standard for the annual fitness assessments.
▶ 1:31:39Sen. Duckworth: These were to make sure we have a baseline physical fitness across united states military. They are not job-specific, they are just making sure you can stay in the military. And those are differentiated based on gender and age. If secretary hegseth is to have one to rule them all, why would we stop at gender? Mr. o'keefe, you support holding all service members in combat roles regardless of age to the same fitness standards if you're going to get rid of the gender-specific standards?
▶ 1:32:08Mr. Okeefe: I think the fitness requirements for combat roles should be, whether it is the fitness test -- I appreciate the distinction between a fitness test and the occupational requirements. That is important to note. Certainly, the occupational standards should be consistent regardless of who is performing the job.
▶ 1:32:26Sen. Duckworth: Would you agree with me if we are going to get rid of the gender differentiation, to get rid of the age differentiation? Because it is supposed to be for the job.
▶ 1:32:37Mr. Okeefe: As I said, think and requirement for a particular jobs should be agnostic. As long as the requirements are set in a realistic way and are determined to be relevant for the position, it is my view though should be consistent.
▶ 1:32:51Sen. Duckworth: Gender and age neutral?
▶ 1:32:54Mr. Okeefe: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:32:58Sen. Duckworth: I think hegseth should eliminate -- if he's going to get rid of the? ? Gender scaling.
▶ 1:33:06Would You Agree Mr. Okeefe: I think -- you noted the distinction between the fitness tests and the occupational requirements. I think those are different conversations. They have been muddied somewhat over the years, I grant you. I do think there is a distinction.
▶ 1:33:26Sen. Duckworth: He wants to get rid of the gender differentiation for the annual fitness test. If he is going to do that, would you agree we should also get rid of the age differentiation for the annual fitness test? If you're getting rid of the gender, should get rid of the age differentiation.
▶ 1:33:41Mr. Okeefe: I don't know the details. I know there is an effort in the department going through that right now. We just had a meeting with the army about it we ago on their test read if confirmed, that would be something an area I look forward to providing some insight and advice into the secretary on that one.
▶ 1:34:01Senator Duckworth: Thank you.
▶ 1:34:02Chair Ernst: Senator sullivan.
▶ 1:34:05Sen. Sullivan: Gentlemen, congratulations. Thank you for your service. You and your families. Really appreciate it. Very important we have people with your caliber and qualifications to do this.
▶ 1:34:25Sen. Sullivan: First of all, I would like for you to to commit to coming to alaska with me, seeing our great army, the 11th airborne division , may be better than the 82nd airborne division already -- a little competition there. And see what general billy mitchell called the most strategic place in the world. Have either of you been to alaska and we commit to coming to alaska with me to see our fine military forces?
▶ 1:34:57Mr. Obadal: My mother-in-law said I can only go if it is cold, during the cold months.
▶ 1:35:04Sen. Sullivan: I like that answer.
▶ 1:35:06Mr. Okeefe: I visited alaska years ago as a tourist but I agree with my friend here, I would like to go up in the winter. That is the time to go. I would like to go see it then.
▶ 1:35:20Sen. Sullivan: We will do that in the winter. I will take you around. It will be 30, 40, 50 below zero where our tough arctic warriors trained in that kind of temperature. On an issue that actually has been a real troubling one in alaska, of these great military members. Our army does such a great job.
▶ 1:35:49Sen. Sullivan: The 11th airborne has not stood up in alaska -- 49th missile battalion at fort greeley. That is in alaska national guard unit. They literally protect the entire country. They have this great motto, the 300 protecting the 300 million. That is where all the ground-based missile interceptors that shoot down any incoming missiles would hit washington, D.C., new york city, miami -- it is all based in alaska. That is army as well.
▶ 1:36:19Sen. Sullivan: But we do have -- we've had over the last several years very high rate of suicide among our active-duty forces in alaska, particularly the army. Can I get your commitment went even before you get up to alaska to continue to work -- I think the army has done a good job. I think the top leadership at osd has done a good job. This is a tough issue.
▶ 1:36:48Sen. Sullivan: It is kind of hard to get our arms around. Of course, it is heartbreaking. Can I get your commitment to working with me and this committee on this issue to keep -- the rates are starting to come down, but they were superduper high with regard to the active-duty component of the army in alaska, and we need to keep the trend going down. Can I get your commitment to working with me?
▶ 1:37:10Mr. Obadal: Suicide is something I think many of us in uniform have had first-hand experience with and I think the army and the dod at large has done a great job with understanding mental health is health care. The effects in the treatment of ptsd, and then the mitigation of tbi.
▶ 1:37:30Mr. Okeefe: Absolutely, senator. I would complement -- I worked on legislation on your behalf in this area. I know this is a focus. I would complement the army. I agree, they have taken this seriously. Have reacted appropriately. I would highlight I think one of the perhaps best things the army did is they started asking people who wanted to go to alaska to volunteer as opposed to just sending people who had no idea what they were in for.
▶ 1:37:59Mr. Okeefe: That is been a very effective thing I think.
▶ 1:38:01Sen. Sullivan: You're making a good point. The 11th airborne, that is an airborne unit like I said, always good to have competition, 82nd one was maybe getting a little too -- well, they did not have enough competition. Arctic angels. A lot of people don't know the history in world war ii. Very impressive.
▶ 1:38:22Sen. Sullivan: I think you're right, you give a unit a mission, higher morale -- we have got to get -- we still have numbers we don't want in terms of suicide. One final question, I went to both of your views on recruiting. We went through this really bad recruiting crisis, particularly for the army, during the biden years. I have a whole host of reasons I think that happened.
▶ 1:38:51Sen. Sullivan: The biden era army leadership, dod leadership took their eye off the ball in terms of what it means to recruit young men and women who want to go fight and deploy and serve their country. They kind of turn it into the social thing, ridiculous ads for recruiting. I will mention them here. Give me your view on why you think it is already starting to turn around under the trump administration but what we need to do to make sure we don't have that kind of crisis the army had two or three years ago?
▶ 1:39:21Sen. Sullivan: We were off by tens of thousands of recruits. For an all volunteer force, that is existential. If you can't get young americans to join our military. What do you think happened and can you commit to me to continue to work on the positive trend we have already seen during the trump administration?
▶ 1:39:40Mr. Obadal: We'll be happy to elaborate on the record, but what I believe are our army's senior leaders, specific to the army, have to be the ones that go out and state civic leaders. And that will make sure our recruiters are part of the landscape and have the access they need to those high population areas.
▶ 1:40:05Mr. Obadal: I think they can then describe the opportunities and instill a sense of pride and ownership in civil service and military service.
▶ 1:40:15Sen. Sullivan: Mr. o'keefe?
▶ 1:40:16Mr. Okeefe: I think the best thing the army has done is they've started to imitate the marine corps model on recruiting.
▶ 1:40:26Sen. Sullivan: In this committee, that is never a bad answer.
▶ 1:40:28Mr. Okeefe: Sending some of their sharpest officers.
▶ 1:40:34Sen. Sullivan: Senator reed?
▶ 1:40:35Chair Ernst: Your way over time.
▶ 1:40:39Sen. Sullivan: That is the best damn answer I've heard and is given in a long time.
▶ 1:40:43Mr. Okeefe: The marine corps has been sending some of their sharpest to recruiting for a long time and it shows in the numbers.
▶ 1:40:52Sen. Sullivan: Thank you.
▶ 1:40:52Chair Ernst: Enough of that, colonel sullivan. Ok. Thank you. Senator gillibrand. Sen.
▶ 1:41:03Gillibrand: Thank you both for your dedication and service. I'm grateful you are taking on these jobs at this time. I want to continue the recruiting conversation that senator sullivan started. This committee has for a long time tried to enhance getting the best and brightest we possibly can. One of the missionaries is where we fall short. One is cyber. I don't have to recite read the litany of cyber attacks on this country over the last five years that are devastating.
▶ 1:41:32Gillibrand: Once I could easily undermine our military readiness to the point we can fight a war or respond effectively. One of the goals of this committee is to create a cyber academy where we can create rotc-type program at over 600 schools and universities across the country from community colleges to elite universities. That program has been up and running now for a couple of years. It is working. We are getting recruits from all across the country.
▶ 1:42:02Gillibrand: These are for nonmilitary jobs -- obviously in the dod, there is deal of nonmilitary civilian jobs who do cyber specifically. It doesn't necessarily have to be trained like a marine to be lethal outside of the lethality on a keyboard, which is why we want to be able to recruit beyond any personnel who would want to come and serve as an army officer or marine officer or any enlisted personnel.
▶ 1:42:31Gillibrand: So, the doge cuts are undermining this entire ecosystem. The reports we have heard is that these kids are waiting to get jobs. They actually have done the work we have asked them to do, they have done four years or two years of training specifically on the missions they dod has given them for cyber, and they are waiting to be employed. The data is terrible. We created this program to get more recruits, and doge cuts are impacting.
▶ 1:43:01Gillibrand: Right now undergraduates have not been able to change jobs. 25% of eligible students for interns. We are going backwards in a mission we have been desperate to meet. Mr.
▶ 1:43:13Gillibrand: O'keefe, can you commit to me will work to strengthen the cyber academy, that we will work to get the full complement of a thousand students enrolled every year, and will continue to work on campuses across the country to increase the number of schools that had the curriculum we need, and eventually to create a bricks and mortar academy so we have the cyber personnel we actually need?
▶ 1:43:34Mr. Okeefe: I think you have hit on a number of important topics. One is military and civilians need to work together in this area. Not everyone needs to be military. The department of defense needs to be a better employer of civilians in this area. There are number of authorities there but I think this is a very useful focus for the department, not just for cyber that across the board.
▶ 1:44:01Sen. Gillibrand: Mr. obadal, thank you so much for your decades of service and thank you for being committed to this new mission. I want to talk about the drone incursions we have seen over our military bases. I know you have expertise in this area.
▶ 1:44:21Sen. Gillibrand: I would like you to talk about it because the publicly available reports about the drone incursion over langley is shocking, concerning, and we can further this conversation in a skiff but in the open session, what are you going to do to fight for the authorizations, the technology investments, for the ability that when we have drone incursions over highly sensitive military bases, that arguably are spying on us with no recourse from unknown origins
▶ 1:44:53Sen. Gillibrand: , could be any adversarial nation, what do you propose to the department of defense, to the secretary of defense to this committee about enhancing authorities so we can take them down over military bases and have the authority to do so, that we can run missions if necessary to follow drone incursions to their source to see if they are being launched from ships nearby, seeing if their lunch from fields nearby owned by adversarial nations. What is your plan?
▶ 1:45:24Mr. Obadal: It is a critical problem as we have seen growing over the years. To me, from a strategic standpoint, I see this as defense of the homeland. So there are a number of -- I really put this in two buckets.
▶ 1:45:43Mr. Obadal: When his technical layering of capabilities, which would be different in place like syria or iraq then new york over a base because of the ability to use kinetics or electronic means to affect incurring -- incursions by drones. At the other is the layering of authorities. This is where I think it gets complicated. The technical part I am confident in the army's acquisition capabilities and industry to be able to bring together solutions.
▶ 1:46:11Mr. Obadal: The more difficult part is weaving together the number of authorities. You mentioned this. It goes to local and state authorities, department of defense, department of justice involved, and homeland defense in certain areas. This is probably the area I would, if confirmed, I would focus on the most is as far as acquisition community, let them work with industry to figure out what the right solutions are.
▶ 1:46:38Mr. Obadal: But we have to turn the attention of army leadership to across the interagency and down into our local governments to ensure we are layering all of those authorities to their maximum effect.
▶ 1:46:51Sen. Gillibrand: I have a bipartisan bill with senator cotton I would like you to review and give us comments on. Thank you. >> thank you for your leadership on the cyber issues, cyber academy and everything she has been the leader in this committee on that. Really important to follow through on the issues she race. I want to thank the nominees for their testimony.
▶ 1:47:15Sen. Gillibrand: I think it is very apparent both are extremely qualified and I hope we can have a strong bipartisan vote for both of them getting out of the committee and under the senate floor here soon for the information of members, questions for the record will be due to the committee within one business day of the conclusion of this hearing. We are adjourned.