▶ 0:17:42Chair Risch: The senate committee on foreign relations will come to order. Welcome, senator rubio. Before we start, I will tell you what we are going to do. I will make an opening statement. Shaheen is. We will defer to senator rubio -- excuse me. He took your chair and thinks he is running the place. Kind of like you did. Anyway.
▶ 0:18:11Chair Risch: We will then have your statement , secretary rubio. We will then open it to around a five minute questions before we talk further about what we are going to do I will talk about what we are not going to do.
▶ 0:18:25Chair Risch: As you know, since I've taken the chair of the committee, we have zero tolerance on any kind of protests, on any kind of attempt by anyone in the audience to contact, influence, or in any way communicate with either the witness or people here on the dais. That includes no signs, no standing up, obviously no shouting or comments.
▶ 0:18:52Chair Risch: You will be interested to hear, secretary rubio, since you were here last time it has been calm and quiet. We haven't had to run anyone out of here. If we have a problem, you will be taken into custody and banned from coming into this room for the next year. With that I would like to say a warm welcome back, senator rubio. We are always glad to have you here and glad you're happy to spend time with us.
▶ 0:19:19Chair Risch: You picked up a little more responsibility since we saw you last time. You don't look any worse for the wear, so I think you can handle it. It is good to have you again. Under president trump and your work at the department this administration has accomplished and credible things in a short time.
▶ 0:19:37Chair Risch: To name a few, a secure border, cease-fire between india and pakistan, continued pressure on the russians and ukrainians to in the war -- end the war, and return of american hostages from the clutches of hamas, a return to office for state employees, a return to a merit-based hiring system, ensuring that the department can deliver for the american people.
▶ 0:20:01Chair Risch: Of course, the trump administration has sought overhaul our federal spending cutting much of the waste and abuse that wreaked havoc on america's bottom line. Indeed, up here, one view we have is that we are going upside down $1 trillion every 150 or so days. You have done all of these things while maintaining a strong presence abroad.
▶ 0:20:25Chair Risch: This committee has worked hard in a bipartisan manner to approve 31 nominees for posts here and overseas to make sure that you have the stuff you need. We continue to do so because you cannot be everywhere at once. The U.S. must have high level representation on the world stage. This is important because we face threats from all across the globe.
▶ 0:20:46Chair Risch: Actors from china, russia, north korea to iran have united in an authoritarian axis bent on weakening the united states. I believe that china is america's greatest long-term competitor. The previous administration treated china like an ally that we disagreed with rather than an aggressor that takes advantage of america and his allies at every level. The chinese government is fundamentally different from the united states.
▶ 0:21:17Chair Risch: Where america promotes free markets and innovation, the ccp clamps down on businesses and steals american intellectual property. Where we believe that every person has god given rights, the chinese government commits gina -- commits genocides against minorities in china.
▶ 0:21:33Chair Risch: We want to work with you to make sure that you have the tools that you need to counter chinese influence, including through the development finance corporation and the millennium challenge corporation to truly counter china we need to catalyze private sector growth worldwide where we can. As you know, china is not the only threat. Over the last decade, particularly the last three years, putin's aggression created the largest security crisis in the area since the second world war.
▶ 0:22:03Chair Risch: President trump is working diligently to help into the conflict and we need to keep pushing european allies to increase cooperation on security. Some have already boosted their defense spending to 5%, but many still need to take stronger steps to confront the threats that they face from russia. In the middle east, even after the president's successful trip, tensions remain high. Hezbollah remains a disruptor to reform in lebanon. Baghdad must work to disarm iranian-backed militias.
▶ 0:22:31Chair Risch: Israel remains under constant threat from hamas and iran's proxies. We hope that the government lives up to the opportunity that you enter the present have given the country with sanctions relief. The maximum pressure campaign's on iran is promising. We stand a chance of bringing greater stability to the middle east. I know you and the president will continue to support the work.
▶ 0:22:58Chair Risch: Finally, I greatly appreciate president trump's efforts to address long-standing issues with our foreign military sales process, rebuilding our defense industrial base is critical to america's long-term national security. Fms reform can play a vital role in that effort. I should note that many of the problems that plague the fms process are the result of less than desirable policies and practices at the department of defense. It is in our interest to expand our defense production capacity and deliver needed capabilities to our allies.
▶ 0:23:28Chair Risch: This committee has always worked closely with the administration on foreign military sales. I know this will continue under your leadership. Secretary rubio, as you and president trump remake the state department, I hope you will consider this committee a partner and closely collaborate with us as you bring the department into the 21st century through thoughtful reforms. Hope to finally see the implementation of my secure embassies construction counterterrorism act and mission in a box act.
▶ 0:23:57Chair Risch: These laws will help build a new embassies easier, faster, and more cost-effective. Consequently freeing our personnel to conduct the advancement of american interests to outcompete adversaries like china. Everyone who sits or has sat on this dais, including you, cares deeply about america's standing in the world.
▶ 0:24:19Chair Risch: I look forward to hearing your vision for the ongoing state department reorganization and how it will protect our national security interests. Thank you again for coming today. Again, a warm welcome. Senator shaheen.
▶ 0:24:32Sen. Shaheen: Thank you chairman. Secretary rubio, welcome back. Four months ago you sat in that chair and you said china is "the most potent and dangerous near peer adversary this nation has confronted." you call china an economic competitor, geopolitical competitor, scientific competitor. I believe you were right.
▶ 0:24:57Sen. Shaheen: Yet, this administration has eviscerated six decades of american foreign-policy investment, undercutting our ability to compete with that the series like china. Beijing is not just sitting back. As elon musk took a chainsaw to usaid and you propose cutting foreign assistance programs, china has promised increasing its diplomatic budget by 8.4%. As we move to reduce our diplomatic workforce and discuss closing U.S.
▶ 0:25:26Sen. Shaheen: Embassies, china has more diplomatic missions than any other nation on earth. As the U.S. canceled our most successful program fighting aids, china has replaced it across -- distract from serious national security issues with threats across panama and greenland.
▶ 0:25:50Sen. Shaheen: Xi jinping has welcomed brazil's kennedys and african-american leaders pledging $9 billion in investments. As the U.S. has shuttered a voice of america and radio-free asia and crippled the state department' is ability to counter foreign propaganda, china pours billions into propaganda, spreading lies in eroding trust in the U.S..
▶ 0:26:12Sen. Shaheen: As this administration imposes tariffs on our allies, china is courting them in europe, asia, and our hemisphere. Beijing is making the case that they are, the term they are using is frightening, a more reliable partner then the united states. It is not just our allies. Xi deepened ties with putin shielding the russian economy from sanctions.
▶ 0:26:41Sen. Shaheen: Because of that and because president trump has given away our leverage, putin does not feel pressured to agree to a cease-fire in ukraine. For all of the administration's talk and elon musk's promises, according to reports, doge hasn't saved a dime. Cbs news reports that the federal government has spent $200 billion more in its first 100 days than it did last year.
▶ 0:27:05Sen. Shaheen: According to the partnership for public service, doge's cuts may cost american taxpayers $135 billion this year. This is in addition to the cost to american families and businesses stemming from the president's trade war. I recently met with a new hampshire company that provides ball bearings to the aerospace industry. They do a lot of their business with defense.
▶ 0:27:31Sen. Shaheen: Their lead time for steel has gone from 20 weeks to 2.5 years because of the tariffs on steel. We cannot support our defense industry with a 2.5 year lead time on steel. According to the yale budget lab, consumers face an overall tariff rate of 7.8%, the highest since 19 34. That is $2800 per household each year.
▶ 0:28:02Sen. Shaheen: These tariffs amount to the largest tax increase during peace time in U.S. history. Four months ago, Mr. secretary, you said that we were going to be safer, stronger, more prosperous. But whether it is president trump's deals with the cartel to let cartel members into the united states or watching ice agents of duct a tufts college student, I don't feel safer.
▶ 0:28:28Sen. Shaheen: With canadians canceling summer trips to new hampshire and hurting our tourism industry, I don't feel more prosperous. After traveling to ukraine and visiting the graves of people massacred on the orders of a russian president, this administration has bent over backwards to please, I don't feel more secure. To your credit, Mr. secretary, your trip and the statement from president trump, that he will be lifting sanctions on syria, was welcome news.
▶ 0:28:56Sen. Shaheen: You have worked to restart some programs and grant waivers to others. Contrary to what we've heard, life-saving health and humanitarian aid is still not flowing in any meaningful way. My staff was just in africa. We have photos of the empty shelves and closed down clinics. We were promised a golden age for america. Instead, our disease surveillance programs are down. Our counterterrorism programs are in chaos.
▶ 0:29:27Sen. Shaheen: The cease-fire in gaza has ended and fighting has begun again. We have unilaterally disarmed against some of our most dangerous adversaries. One of the things that I will never forget in the past four months is my trip to ukraine where we stopped in poland, which has been one of the most pro-american countries in the world. Because of the cuts and the stop work orders, we met with one civil society leader who was working with ukrainian refugees.
▶ 0:29:57Sen. Shaheen: He said to me, we always looked up to americans. You are a trusted ally. My trust is in america is broken. They were told to remove all of the american flags with the halt on assistance, foreign assistance. Removing all of the american flags is a sad commentary on the foreign assistance legacy for this administration.
▶ 0:30:26Sen. Shaheen: American flags coming down around the world. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:30:30Chair Risch: Thank you, senator shaheen. Sec. Rubio, there appears to be a modest disagreement in the view of conditions of today. It is your turn. Close the gap for us, please.
▶ 0:30:43Sec. Rubio: It is an honor to be here on behalf of the national archives.
▶ 0:30:48Chair Risch: We don't have time for you to list.
▶ 0:30:50Sec. Rubio: We will focus on state today. I appreciate the opportunity to speak today. When I came here for months ago I told you I wanted to state department was at the heart and soul of the american foreign-policy. That it was the single biggest driver of action and ideas. We are well on our way to achieving that. I will talk about some of the individual things that we have accomplished during that time, but let me explain some of the processes by which we seek to arrive at it.
▶ 0:31:19Sec. Rubio: First, a reorganization of the way the state department functions. We have previewed that with a committee and many of the individual members. We have taken input and are taking input through the notice process and we will come back to you with a formal congressional notification. We are taking a lot of input provided by individual movers and your staff and from inside the building. If I can simplify the goal, it is this. >> stop the genocide.
▶ 0:31:47Chair Risch: Carry on.
▶ 0:31:48Sec. Rubio: The goal is to drive power and action in our agency to the regional bureaus and our embassies. On everything we do. We want our foreign policy to be holistic. We recognize that the set of factors in diplomacy and foreign aid in guatemala, trinidad, or jamaica will look different than they may somewhere in africa, somewhere in the indo pacific region.
▶ 0:32:14Sec. Rubio: We want those decisions and to the influence over those decisions to be made to be driven to the regional bureaus. We have taken a lot of the functional bureaus and processes and moved them under the purview of the regional bureaus and career individuals who serve there and ultimately to the embassy. One of our first tests, senator shaheen, will be in syria.
▶ 0:32:36Sec. Rubio: The embassy is operating out of turkey, but we need to help them and we want to help that government succeed, because the alternative is full-scale civil war and chaos, which of course would destabilize the entire region. We will allow our people on the ground, embassy personnel at the damascus embassy in turkey, and, for the short period of time in the interim, our ambassador in turkey to work with local officials there to make determination about what kind of a they need, humanitarian or improving law-enforcement.
▶ 0:33:07Sec. Rubio: We think that it will be the first test of the model, but I strongly believe that our decisions and the power to drive decisions, the decisions and influence we are taking must be driven from the bottom up and not the top down. Focused on the fact that their unique sets of factors in individual parts of the world that require different priorities and attention. Ultimately, mature foreign-policy requires a balancing of interest. That is just the facts. Our human rights agenda is going to look different in certain parts of the world and in others.
▶ 0:33:35Sec. Rubio: That doesn't mean that we as a people have abandoned it. It means in a world where you need to conduct real foreign-policy in a mature, structured way, there are ways that you will need to balance -- [indiscernible yelling]
▶ 0:33:53Chair Risch: Senator rubio, we are making progress. They are protesting in english now. Remember last time?
▶ 0:34:01Sec. Rubio: We have to understand. That is why it is important that regional bureaus be at the core and at the heart of everything we do. We feel good about that part of it. By the same token, critical to this, some of the reforms you're trying to make to foreign aid. When I peered before this committee I said everything has to make a stronger, safer, or more prosperous.
▶ 0:34:23Sec. Rubio: We have undertaken a view of our foreign aid and the reality is some are good programs and some make all of the sense in the world and we want to pursue those programs -- some of these programs make all of the sense in the world, but, frankly, on the priority scale, perhaps other programs are more important. Others make no sense at all. We can talk about some of those programs today. We funded things around the world that make no sense.
▶ 0:34:50Sec. Rubio: Even with the reforms that we put in place and what we are suggesting our changes to foreign aid, we will still provide more foreign aid and humanitarian support than the next 10 countries combined. Then the entire oecd and far more than china. China does not do humanitarian aid. China does predatory lending. That is with the belt and road initiative is p or they have zero record of humanitarian aid in the world. They have no interest in doing it.
▶ 0:35:18Sec. Rubio: What they are good at is going into a country, making a loan, and holding that debt over your head. By the way, you have to hire a chinese company to do it. I don't agree with the assessment that there is no evidence whatsoever that china has the capacity or the will to replace the U.S. in humanitarian assistance, food deliveries, or developmental assistance. We provide developmental assistance and they provide debt traps. That is a point over and over that we've made and we have found receptive audiences.
▶ 0:35:47Sec. Rubio: Anytime you undertake reforms of this magnitude, that needed to be made, you will have pickups and have controversy. But these reforms had happened. At usaid, $.12 of every dollar was reaching the recipient. In order for us to get aid to someone we had to spend other money supporting the foreign aid industrial complex. We will find more efficient ways to deliver aid to people directly.
▶ 0:36:14Sec. Rubio: It will be directed by our regional bureaus and it will sponsor programs that make a difference as part of a holistic approach to our foreign policy. I look forward to engaging with this committee and the appropriators as well to ensure that we get to the right place on that. The last point that I would make, this is something I'm proud of, I believe, not besmirching anyone else, but I believe that the approach we've taken at the state department, and frankly usaid, but the state department, to move forward forms involving intake from all of our partners that required input from people within the building, many of the reforms
▶ 0:36:45Sec. Rubio: That we've made were driven by people inside the building. Many of whom who have worked there for 20 or 30 years. Now, we are engaged with congress and the house and senate in a comment period where we are taking your comments and making changes to our organizational proposals that we look forward to bringing back with you with an official congressional notification. Even after that, there will be the opportunity to move forward. The state department had to change.
▶ 0:37:11Sec. Rubio: It was no longer at the center of american foreign policy and was often replaced by the national security council or another agency of government, when in fact we have highly talented people, many of whom have served in multiple posts around the world and have a holistic view of how foreign-policy needs to be conducted, that were being edged out. You know what, when I get a decision early on at the state department and they hand me memos, there were 40 boxes on a piece of paper meaning that 40 people had to check off before it got to me.
▶ 0:37:41Sec. Rubio: That's ridiculous and it takes too long. People say don't use the state department because it takes too long it is too cumbersome. If any of those boxes did not get checked, the memo did not move up the chain. We cannot move at that pace in this world. Events happen quickly and we have to be able to move at the pace of relevance. I hope to work with you in a productive way to make that possible. You won't like all of the changes but I want you to know the intent of the changes. It isn't to dismantle american foreign-policy or withdraw us from the world.
▶ 0:38:10Sec. Rubio: I had 18 countries in 18 weeks. That doesn't sound like much of a withdraw. I see foreign ministers more than I've seen my own children. I talked to them at least three times a week. We are engaged in the world but we will be engaged in a world that makes sense. That's smart. It's not about saving money, it's about delivering to our people what they deserve, a foreign-policy that mix america stronger, safer, and more prosperous -- makes america stronger, safer, and more prosperous.
▶ 0:38:38Chair Risch: We will do a round of questions. Seven minutes. I will start. One of the things that you mentioned, and admittedly what we are dealing with here is a large number of subjects and I want to focus on one that senator shaheen and I have worked together on, the syria matter. Thank you and the president for lifting the sanctions on syria.
▶ 0:39:04Chair Risch: I think that the next step, and I think you agree with us that what syria and lebanon are opportunities for us, and we need to explore the opportunities with a careful eye on what's going on to make sure it stays on track. I think that the next step, as far as I'm concerned, as far as moving syria forward, is getting personnel on the ground. You and I talked about the possibility of opening the embassy.
▶ 0:39:34Chair Risch: I understand that this isn't a classified setting, but can you may be described for us the embassy? While we haven't done it to this point?
▶ 0:39:46Sec. Rubio: It is entirely driven by security concerns. By the way, it is not the transitional authorities. We don't think that they would harm us. There are elements on the ground in syria. You have to have a way to get people out. We have requirements that are there for a reason. If you have a medical evacuation, can you secure a facility from an attack from an armed group, many of whom are running loose in the country, unfortunately.
▶ 0:40:16Sec. Rubio: It is one of the major challenges that the transitional authority is facing. Syria, if you look at the history of the region, when syria is unstable the region becomes unstable. This has been true after the arab spring led to the rebellion against assad. That destabilized the region frankly turning syria into a playground for jihadist groups to destabilize their partners. You have this change in december.
▶ 0:40:43Sec. Rubio: In my view, which I've discussed with many of you individually, the bad news is that the transitional authority members did not pack the f -- pass the background check with the fbi. If we engage them they may or may not work out. If we engage in them it was guaranteed to not work out.
▶ 0:41:02Sec. Rubio: It is our assessment that the transitional authority, given the challenges they are facing, are maybe weeks, not many months away from collapse and a full-scale civil war of epic proportions. Basically, the country is splitting up. There is a syria national identity.
▶ 0:41:20Sec. Rubio: It is one ofthe places in the middle east where they have lived alongside each other under a syrian identity before it was broken by the butcher, assad who pitted them against each other. First, they are dealing with deep, internal distrust in the country because assad deliberately pitted the groups against each other, claiming to be the protector and pitting them against each other and the result is a deep level of distrust.
▶ 0:41:51Sec. Rubio: Up to six to 7 million syrians living abroad, very successfully in the countries that they go to, but we have to figure out how to enable the transitional authority to create an environment where they can come back to their homes and help rebuild their economy. What prompted the president to move quickly on sanctions, we had a plan. We engaged with the foreign minister at the u.n. In new york. We allowed their finance minister to come to meetings in washington, D.C.
▶ 0:42:21Sec. Rubio: I was going to meet with the foreign minister, and some of you may have met with him in munich, but I was going to meet with him at the nato gathering. The president had an opportunity and he made a bold decision. I will meet with them under the saudi's and turks that have encouraged that. The rationale and the reason is that right now the most important thing is partnering nations in the region want to get aid in and want to start helping them, and they can't because they are afraid of our sanctions.
▶ 0:42:51Sec. Rubio: The lifting of the sanctions, the most immediate impact will allow neighboring countries to assist the transitional authority to build governance mechanisms to establish a government, unify the armed forces, and the like. We can issue waivers, but these waivers, because of expirations on them, they aren't going to attract the kind of foreign investment.
▶ 0:43:15Sec. Rubio: There will ultimately have to be something done congressionally or more comprehensively to ensure that if the right steps are taken we can create an environment for private-sector growth to begin to provide economic opportunity to the people of syria. One last point is that the outcome in syria will have a deep impact on what happens inside of lebanon. Lebanon has been hurt by a combination of clashes at the border, but also they assume responsibility for some syrian refugees.
▶ 0:43:45Sec. Rubio: In the region, two years from now, syria and lebanon are stable, that opens opportunities around the region for peace and security and the end of conflicts and wars. This is a big task, big picture thinking, but it's a historic opportunity and one that we are obligated to explore and see if we can make work.
▶ 0:44:05Chair Risch: I appreciate that. I think that we are in full agreement. It is a conundrum as far as the sanctions are concerned. We have the six month, but as you say the future -- it is hard to predict the future as it hasn't happened yet. There are real issues and risks in the future. We can take it a step at a time. You issued a visa to the foreign minister at senator shaheen and I met with the foreign minister.
▶ 0:44:37Chair Risch: You issued him a visa to come to new york, which is important to meet with other heads of state. Do you have the ability to do that for the president also?
▶ 0:44:48Sec. Rubio: Sure. There may be an opportunity to do that come the general assembly of the united nations.
▶ 0:44:56Chair Risch: Probably will be. I think that's important. You know, we do hear a lot of complaining and ranking over cuts on our foreign assistance. The number that you laid out is stunning. That the united states contributes more to foreign aid than the next 10 countries put together. That is an absolutely stunning number.
▶ 0:45:26Chair Risch: I guess what you're telling us, before we feel too guilty about it, is we need to look around and complement ourselves for what we are actually doing it have been doing for a long time. Fair statement?
▶ 0:45:38Sec. Rubio: No doubt. And we want to do it in a smarter and more targeted way.
▶ 0:45:43Chair Risch: Let me give you a minute on pet minute on pe -- on pepfar. Virtually everyone here supports papineau . -- supports pepfar. Can you give a dissertation on that.
▶ 0:46:01Sec. Rubio: 80% is functional right now. There is a hiccup on the treasury which I acknowledged in conversations with many of you, but the money is flowing. 85% is functioning and is operating. There was reduction in about 15% in individual pieces, but pepfar stands at 85% of functionality.
▶ 0:46:29Sec. Rubio: When I hear these stories, moving money out of the building every day, 20,000,001 day, $35 million the other, it's going to someone. Some is going to work conducted before the freeze, so we are paying back invoices on some of them, but a lot of it is going towards ongoing programmatic activities that are approved and that we have either, through a waiver or approval process, are moving forward on.
▶ 0:46:56Chair Risch: Senator shaheen.
▶ 0:46:57Sen. Shaheen: Mr. secretary, I have a number of questions. First, I want to go back to what you had to say about china. I agree that their efforts are predatory. I think somebody may be missing what they are doing in response to our ceasing of foreign assistance in places. Mr.
▶ 0:47:19Sen. Shaheen: Chairman, for the record I would like to submit this fact sheet, prc supporting international assistance as U.S. withdraws dated april 29. Earlier this month general langley, the commander of U.S. africa command, I sit on the armed services committee, when we asked him about the end to specific usaid programs, he stated that the p.r.c.
▶ 0:47:47Sen. Shaheen: Is trying to replicate "specific usaid programs in africa that the trump administration cut, including pepfar." there are several pages of these examples. Another is in cambodia after the U.S. terminated $2 million in demining programming. The p.r.c. Announced 4.4 million dollars to expand its own programs. The p.r.c.
▶ 0:48:15Sen. Shaheen: Recently stepped into fund child literacy and nutrition programs previously supported by usaid. We can pretend that china is not doing these things, picking up and promoting themselves as a reliable partner when the united states is not, but we have specific examples that show where this is happening.
▶ 0:48:37Sen. Shaheen: I want to move to ukraine, because we heard the conversation that the president had with vladimir putin, the phone conversation, where putin didn't agree to any meaningful negotiation that would end this war in ukraine. As president trump has admitted, vladimir putin is taking him for a ride.
▶ 0:49:09Sen. Shaheen: We have a bipartisan bill in the senate led by lindsey graham. It has 80 sponsors. I understand that the house members are ready to take this up on a. Discharge out of the senate. Are you prepared to support that sanctions bill that 78 other members of the senate support?
▶ 0:49:36Sec. Rubio: Let me answer the last question first about the bill. We cannot control what congress does and we have told the russians. Not now. Six to eight weeks ago. Senator shaheen, I believe that you were involved in a conversation that made it clear to the russians what would happen if no progress is made. This point is important. Every sanction, not one has been lifted on the russians. Every sanction in place under the previous administration remains in place.
▶ 0:50:03Sec. Rubio: The idea that we've given up leverage, we have the same leverage today as under the previous administration.
▶ 0:50:07Sen. Shaheen: Mr. secretary, I would argue that the leverage we have given up is taking nato membership off the table, taking away a commitment to continue to help the ukrainians with intelligence sharing and with military equipment and arms that they need to help fight this war.
▶ 0:50:25Sec. Rubio: That continues. There was a pause for one week and all of that was restarted.
▶ 0:50:30Sen. Shaheen: That was intelligence sharing. It doesn't cover the equipment and arms.
▶ 0:50:35Sec. Rubio: That program has not been rescinded.
▶ 0:50:37Sen. Shaheen: We continue to fund what the ukrainians need? Is the president and you prepared to pass another supplemental bill to support them?
▶ 0:50:48Sec. Rubio: That is a different question. That's not up to me to decide the white house would have to make a determination whether to come to congress for a supplemental. Everything congressionally appropriated is ongoing. To the extent that ukrainians have asked for anything additional, then asked for air defenses, patriot units, which we don't have, but we are working with our nato allies who do have some batteries of patriot missiles that they could transfer over to the ukrainians to defend the airspace in kyiv and other
▶ 0:51:21Sec. Rubio: Places. We have been working alongside our partners to get deliveries of some of the systems. You can imagine the none of these countries want to give up their patriot systems either, but we cannot make them fast enough. In ukraine munitions are being extended substantially faster than the ability of the broader west, not just us, but the west produce them. On ukraine we can agree that there is no military solution to this crisis. It has to end in a negotiated settlement.
▶ 0:51:48Sec. Rubio: The challenge in ukraine is russia wants what they do not currently have and are not entitled to. Ukraine wants what they cannot regain militarily. That has been the crux of the challenge.
▶ 0:51:57Sen. Shaheen: I do not disagree with that at one level. On the other hand what vladimir putin is doing now is playing for time. He is playing this president like a fiddle. The longer that he plays it, the more opportunity he has to gain territory in ukraine and the harder it will be to get him to the table. We need to put pressure on vladimir putin in every way that we can to ensure that we can get them to the negotiating table.
▶ 0:52:27Sec. Rubio: I disagree with the playing with a fiddle analogy. Bodmer putin woke up this morning at the at the same set of sanctions on him when he woke up this -- woke up this morning had the same set of sanctions on him. The U.S. is looking for patriot batteries to transfer from nato nations into ukrainian hands. With the president is trying to do is end of the war, the bloody, costly war that neither side can win.
▶ 0:52:59Sec. Rubio: People are dying every single day. The notion that, what has putin gained? He has not gotten a single concession.
▶ 0:53:04Sen. Shaheen: He has gotten time. The more time he gets without additional pressure on russia, the more incentive he has got to continue to gain territory and continue to play for time. I want to get to a final question because my time is running out. That is, I recently wrote a letter to you about the issuance of executive orders on thousands of afghan allies. These are people who fought alongside our military during the war in afghanistan.
▶ 0:53:35Sen. Shaheen: They have been stranded in q atar, albania,. They have been vetted and are ready to travel to the united states. The question I have is, is this this administration going to allow them to come to the united states as it promised? Unless we're willing to keep our commitments to those people are willing to fight and die alongside of us, how can we ask people to do that again?
▶ 0:54:01Sec. Rubio: A couple of points. Some of those -- I think that the issues getting mixed up is whether we are going to pay for them to fly to the united states when the visas are issued or if they have to find their own transportation. Two separate topics. Payment to move people forward and issuance of visas. That is still going through an internal review as to who will be allowed in. There is a review of the vetting process used.
▶ 0:54:30Sec. Rubio: There have been errors found in the previous process we are concerned about. I am separating from that audience people we have closely vetted because we have been working alongside them for many years with regards to their service alongside our special operators on the ground. They are also bringing dependents with them. There was concern about slowing down the program until we could determine if we were properly venting people to come to the united states.
▶ 0:54:54Sec. Rubio: That process is ongoing and I think that we will have more concrete answers, which I know isn't satisfactory at this moment, but we have a lot going on. This is something we've heard from our dod partners and others in the intelligence community, and we are working to make progress.
▶ 0:55:09Sen. Shaheen: I am out of time, but to clarify, last week secretary now secretary noem announced temporary protected status for over 800,000 afghans would end on july 12. Many of those people are people who fought alongside our men and women in the military.
▶ 0:55:32Sen. Shaheen: For us to send them back to sure death at the hands of the taliban is just not what they were promised when they agreed to fight with us.
▶ 0:55:42Chair Risch: Senator ricketts.
▶ 0:55:45Sen. Ricketts: Secretary rubio, welcome. The united states is at its most dangerous time in our history since world war ii. We can see europe, the increasing aggression of communist china, alan to hit on iran -- I want to hit on iran.
▶ 0:56:12Sen. Ricketts: This is a theocracy with a corrupt military. They chant "death to america, death to israel." you had four rounds of negotiation with them so far and I think that you framed it best when you said earlier this month that they have to walk away from sponsoring terrorists, from helping houthis, from building long-range missiles that have no purpose to exist other than having nuclear missiles.
▶ 0:56:40Sen. Ricketts: As you have stated and steven witkoff emphasized over the weekend, the ability to enrich at 3.67% for civilian program, it only takes a few weeks to get to 90% for a military grade weapon. What I want to talk about briefly is, what are you thinking about when you say they've got to get rid of their nuclear program, complete disarmament? Is it still a policy that they cannot be allowed to enrich at all in iran?
▶ 0:57:11Sec. Rubio: Obviously, these are hopefully ongoing negotiations, because the alternative would be far worse but may be necessary, but we hope to reach an agreement with iran. If iran wants a civil nuclear program, the ability to develop nuclear energy, there is a model for that that multiple countries follow allowing them to build reactors and bring in enriched material and use it to generate electricity.
▶ 0:57:42Sec. Rubio: That model would potentially be available to iran. On the other hand, if they want to retain enrichment capability -- I described this because if anyone is watching this or in the future this can get complex. All of you understand, but for the general public it's important to get into the details. When you can enrich on any level all you need is time to enrich at a higher level. They are proven the ability to enrich at a higher level. They are doing so now. Their legislative branch passed a law requiring them to enrich way beyond 60%.
▶ 0:58:15Sec. Rubio: You are right. About 90% of the work of enrichment is getting to the 3.67% level. After that it is just a matter of time. Not to mention what the gap is from 20% for medical isotopes, the other thing that they insist upon. The iranian position is they not only want energy. They claim that enrichment is a matter of national pride. It's our view that they want enrichment as a deterrent. They believe that it makes them a threshold nuclear power and as a result become untouchable.
▶ 0:58:45Sec. Rubio: That's the crux of the situation we are facing.there are other actors that I won't go deeper into, but other nationstates in the region also ranging from uncomfortable all the way to viewing it as an existential threat, the possibility that iran could maintain its enrichment capability in the long term that can be weaponized. That is the basis upon which we are negotiating with the iranians.
▶ 0:59:11Sec. Rubio: Our hope is to show them towards a path towards prosperity and peace to allow them to develop their economy and if they want to have a civil nuclear energy program, like other countries around the world, without enrichment. We hope we can encourage them in that direction. The president has been clear and I will not elaborate further that they are never going to get a nuclear weapon. It's not going to happen.
▶ 0:59:32Sec. Rubio: He and I would much prefer, and I would venture that all of you would prefer, that we would reach an agreement where they agree to this offramp, the pathway towards prosperity and peace as opposed to the road they have been on for the last 20 years. It will not be easy, but that is the process we are engaged in now.
▶ 0:59:50Sen. Ricketts: Let's go to communist china. They are the greatest existential threat that we face as a nation. We both agreed last time when you were before the committee that we need an all of society approach to how we face communist china.
▶ 1:00:08Sen. Ricketts: This is illustrated in recent tabletop exercises that I did with senator coons and others talking about contingency where paging tries to do -- where paging tries to do an energy quarantine on taiwan to force them to capitulate. Obviously, looking at american energy is one of the ways that we can help counter this with lng, biofuels, some of our strongest tools to help our allies and partners.
▶ 1:00:38Sen. Ricketts: Cutting red tape and unleashing american energy into the private sector to be an energy supplier of choice, but we need the infrastructure in place including having west coast lng terminal. Can you talk a little about what you are thinking about when it comes to this type of contingency with regards to an energy quarantine in taiwan and how the administration would approach that?
▶ 1:00:59Sec. Rubio: It would be devastating and the U.S. has agreements and assurances that it's made on maintaining the status quo in that region and those will remain viable without trying to be alarmist. We know what those are and we hope it never happens, but the broader issue that you touch upon, which I do not think is widely understood. Again, members of the committee who follow closely understand this, but more broadly as the dangerous imbalance that has developed between china and the rest of the world on a number of fronts.
▶ 1:01:29Sec. Rubio: First, on access to rare earth minerals, which they have secure access rights all over the world on virtually every continent. They are predominant and/or leading and access. It's one of the points of frustration that I have. You go to a country and you see how much money we've given in humanitarian aid but rare earth mineral rights and the rights to natural resources, it is on the chinese side.
▶ 1:01:53Sec. Rubio: Where is the connection between the aid that we give to help countries survive and the fact that the chinese are somehow from these governments, bribery or otherwise, getting a hold of these rare earth minerals, leases, and contracts all over the place. Not only africa and latin america. All over the place. Processing. They process all of the rare earth elements. If they want a decide that we will cut off the world, and they have threatened to do so to some extent with trade negotiations, you won't be able to build an engine.
▶ 1:02:22Sec. Rubio: You won't be able to build a rocket or any of the things that we use in daily life. This is a very dangerous situation that has to be addressed. A lot of it will require domestic changes in our own country and in building up our own domestic capabilities, for example, to refine rare earth minerals and process it, but also to make things. Pharmaceuticals is another dangerous imbalance. The talk of them getting close to the european, they are dumping on the european market. They are overproducing.
▶ 1:02:53Sec. Rubio: They don't consume, so they dump all of these products onto the european marketplace. Their opinions are very concerned, the italians in particular, that they used to lead the world in pharmaceuticals, at least in the precursors and key elements and basic ingredients are the chinese now dominate 80% of that industry. They could cut off our medicine.
▶ 1:03:13Sec. Rubio: When you talk about energy, I could apply that to a host of industries in the 21st century that if we do not address that imbalance, which is what we hope to do with some of the trade proposals but also domestic matters that the ministrations is taking on, we will be in top shape soon if we are not already.
▶ 1:03:27Sen. Ricketts: I see that my time is up, but I look forward to continuing to talk with you about how we can create this all of society strategy to be able to fight back against communist china, because you laid out a lot of the things that we are at risk at, and we have to find a way to be able to push back on them so that they do not decide to try to take taiwan by force or try to do an energy quarantine, which could lead to a war which would be devastating.
▶ 1:03:54Chair Risch: A sobering analysis of where we are on the supply chain. Senator coons.
▶ 1:04:03Sen. Coons: Thank you, Mr. chairman and ranking member. Secretary rubio, I look forward to two sessions together. This afternoon you will be in front of the appropriations subcommittee. I think that there will be themes across both of these. First, I think that we all agree that china poses our single greatest geopolitical threat and that we have no choice but to deter china across the board and outcompete china.
▶ 1:04:27Sen. Coons: Senator ricketts and I just traveled to the philippines and taiwan and saw directly the challenges that we face there and regionally. And you have recently had some significant successes, the drc rwanda peace transition, the avoidance of escalation in india and pakistan, the opening towards syria. Frankly, I think that there has been a real lack of coordination and serious harm to our standing in the world with some of the countries that we've worked closely with over decades.
▶ 1:04:58Sen. Coons: The doge driven abrupt and largely illegal cancellation of billions of dollars of contracts for humanitarian belief and aid and the disrespect and dismissal of thousands of usaid staff and our ngo partners stands in sharp contrast to the state reorganization process that you just presented on. You have submitted plans and proposals and we are having a conversation. You will send a congressional notification. We will have a hearing.
▶ 1:05:30Sen. Coons: That is the way that the reforming of usaid that have and should have happened. So, at the outset I had to say, as someone who spent 15 years traveling the world, visiting our partners and allies, looking at independent or semi-independent agencies like the mcc and their role in visiting partners, I reject the broad characterization by elon musk and doge as criminals who
▶ 1:06:00Sen. Coons: Are wasting taxpayer money. You have heard across all of us the support for pepfar, concerned about humanitarian relief, and the vision that this is a key strategic asset for us. It is my hope that we will work together to actually make real a more effective, focused, and sustainable foreign aid component to what usaid does and sustaining organizations that we helped build together like the mcc, dfc, global fragility act.
▶ 1:06:30Sen. Coons: Let me turn to this for a moment. My colleague, senator shaheen, made reference to places in the world where the ccp and the prc have stepped forward. I agree that they are never going to deliver humanitarian aid the way that we used two and with the effectiveness that we have. But I also think that they are taking advantage of the opening to say that we are not reliable, that our decades-long partnerships cannot be sustained and extended, and question our motivations.
▶ 1:06:58Sen. Coons: I think that we need to step out quickly to avoid creating a big hole in our credibility globally. Let me start on a few questions with ukraine. The previous administration worked closely with our partners and allies in europe on sanctions to tighten them, to close loopholes, to extend designations. Are you continuing to do that?
▶ 1:07:22Sec. Rubio: Work with our allies?
▶ 1:07:23Sen. Coons: To tighten.
▶ 1:07:25Sec. Rubio: First of all, the europeans have their own set of sanctions and we have coordinated closely. The president had a call with at least six leaders from europe yesterday. I had meetings with what we call the quint, italy, france, the u.k., the germans, the french. We are in constant contact on the work that they are doing and they are proceeding on their own route.
▶ 1:07:50Sec. Rubio: Our conversations with the russians, we made clear that the europeans will ultimately have to be at the table because they have their own set of sanctions they are imposing. We have worked closely with them. The president fully understands the options that he has available to him, some of which are represented in the bill before the senate.
▶ 1:08:07Sen. Coons: And the bill before the senate that senator graham and others have led that I cosponsored, I think that we have an opportunity to put more pressure on russia and push putin to get to the table and agree to adjust an enduring peace. Do you support that sanctions bill? Do you think we should continue to create the conditions for real negotiation?
▶ 1:08:31Sec. Rubio: It may come to that point. It's clear that the russians are not interested in a peace deal and they want to keep fighting the war and it may come to that point. The president has made that in the past. The president's belief is, right now, you start threatening sanctions the russians will stop talking. There is value in being able to talk to them and drive them to get to the table. They will see that they have to do this. No one is claiming that this is guaranteed.
▶ 1:08:55Sen. Coons: President zelenskyy was ready to negotiate and president putin, in my view, continues to play for time. I hope that we can work together to put more pressure on putin, to get to the table and resolve this. The other thing that I clearly see, and I think that many of my colleagues do, is that what happens in ukraine since the table for what happens in the indo pacific. That there is an increasing coordination between the russians, iranians, dprk, p.r.c..
▶ 1:09:24Sec. Rubio: We remind our allies every day that they won't be able to sustain this and they are aware. We understand the presence of the north koreans and the iranians role. At the same token, there's a flipside. That is every minute and dollar that we spend on this conflict in europe is distracting our focus and our resources away from a potential for a much more serious and cataclysmic confrontation in the indo pacific. The answer is, yes, they are related, but related both ways.
▶ 1:09:55Sec. Rubio: On the one hand by the president that it gets -- precedent that it could set, but the other every resource that is expended on this conflict that cannot be won by military means is time that could not be spent on preventing a more serious confrontation from a global perspective in the indo pacific.
▶ 1:10:14Sen. Coons: In your view, we you made the view -- you made the view that we -- humanitarian aid, disaster relief, public health work in countries that ally with china in terms of resource mining and processing. One of the countries that we visited was the philippines. The philippines is the most disaster prone country on earth with more typhoons, earthquakes than anywhere else.
▶ 1:10:40Sen. Coons: They are treaty ally of the united states and yet we abruptly canceled a whole series of programs that provided disaster assistance, development assistance, humanitarian aid. My hope is that we will work together to follow an appropriate and legal process to reform foreign aid and align it with our values and priorities.
▶ 1:11:01Sen. Coons: I have long seen the mcc and dfc as critical components in pushing back on what you correctly perceive as the p.r.c.'s extractive engagement with much of the region. What do you see as the future for organizations like the mcc and doc. When we speak this afternoon I will press you on the america first opportunity fund and understanding how this nearly $3 billion agile fund will fit into the future of aid.
▶ 1:11:28Sec. Rubio: On dfc, we don't control those entities. They are independent and undergoing review. Dfc I think has the opportunity to even expand. That's not a commitment, but there is talk about that. On the lenny him challenge, I saw some reporting that it was -- millennium challenge, as all reporting that it is being imploded. That it is being reformed but not done away with. It was created as an alternative to the way that we did aid with usaid. There is work on both of them.
▶ 1:11:58Sec. Rubio: I think that dfc has the opportunity to do more of the investment we want to make around the world and the way that it's structured. On millennium challenge, it is undergoing review right now, but their view was designed to improve it and not eliminate it.
▶ 1:12:13Sen. Coons: We should talk more directly about that. I'm concerned what has happened and other agencies is happening there. The overwhelming majority of the headquarters staff being suspended and contracts being eliminated more quickly than being formed. The same thing with global communications through radio free europe, radio free asia.I am concerned that we are conceding spaces to the p.r.c. When we should be working together on a shared objective, which is to deter and compete successfully with the p.r.c..
▶ 1:12:40Chair Risch: Senator curtis.
▶ 1:12:44Sen. Curtis: Mr. secretary, you talked about visiting 18 countries and not being with your kids, I feel guilty for making you be here today, but thank you for making this a priority and being you with us today. This may surprise some of my colleagues and maybe you, but for the last several years I've let a republican delegation to the conference of the parties, and I believe that republican voices are really important at that table. I point to issues, for instance, like nuclear.
▶ 1:13:14Sen. Curtis: Cop nuclear was shouting from the housetops that we had to have nuclear power, showing the influence of a republican voice over there. Your agency has done a lot of reduction in cost cutting. Some of that has been the office of global change, which would normally handle the cop arrangements. Who would we work with and have you given thought with whom we can coordinate to make sure that the U.S.
▶ 1:13:42Sen. Curtis: Has a good presence in brazil?
▶ 1:13:44Sec. Rubio: That would be rolled into the economics bureau on restructuring. The energy front will be the forefront of foreign policy the next 100 years. One reason why is ai and ai development alone will put a strain on energy. The amount of energy that it will take to produce ai and ai-driven innovations will -- we don't produce enough global energy to meet it. It will provide strategic opportunities for nations that can deliver cost efficient energy and in sufficient volume.
▶ 1:14:17Sec. Rubio: It will become an opportunity for these countries to become leaders in the eye I space -- ai space. We need to be at the table to have conversations about not just our role in energy but how we help invest with partner countries that have energy.
▶ 1:14:37Sec. Rubio: Paraguay has hydroelectric and they -- they are trying to figure out what to do with hydropower that will no longer be going to brazil. They cannot ship it overseas so someone will go down to paraguay and open up ended ai facility. Diana has just make discoveries on natural gas and oil. This country will become incredibly rich very quickly.
▶ 1:15:07Sec. Rubio: To develop their society but also become a platform for other industries that can strengthen the region.
▶ 1:15:16Sen. Coons: Want to make sure we have a good presence for that message. I believe the U.S. can carry a message or you don't have to give up a liability, I think that is a really strong message. Foreign assistance has been talked about a lot today. I would like to point out that there are a number of philanthropic entities. In utah we have the church of jesus christ. We are ready to stand up and go to work. Catholic charities is spending like that.
▶ 1:15:47Sen. Coons: I want to be sure you are factoring those into your rebuild and restructure. There are a lot of people ready to jump in and be part of this.
▶ 1:15:55Sec. Rubio: Absolutely. Just to go back on foreign aid, we will be doing humanitarian relief, disaster relief. Maybe not the same projects but we will be doing all. It will be under the umbrella of the state department and part of a cohesive foreign policy and it will be driven by our embassies and regional heroes.
▶ 1:16:19Sec. Rubio: In the case of the philippines, we will rely not just on the region here in washington but in our embassy on the ground to help us in single year construct what aid needs to be delivered whether it is humanitarian or the like to that country. That cohesive approach is the missing to how we treat foreign aid box as opposed to its own toolbox altogether. We want to make it part of our broader toolbox.
▶ 1:16:56Sec. Rubio: >> many people are willing to be part of this to complement the vision you just laid. I had the opportunity to work on some house legislation and taiwan and hong kong. I wanted to touch on that briefly. I know senator ricketts brought up taiwan with the recent implementation of four national security laws and the blockade lounge rooms. How can congress bear to work with you for supporting you and make sure we are doing everything we can do?
▶ 1:17:28Sec. Rubio: Unfortunately was hong kong, it is autonomous. The law reflects that. It is basically an extension. One of the great examples of that is a company headquartered in hong kong that controls two of the main facilities on the panama canal. Everyone for saying they are not a chinese company. They are a private hong kong company.
▶ 1:17:58Sec. Rubio: When they decide they will sell, all they slowed down the deal. How can it be if this company is independent, why do do they care what the chinese authority thinks? Their headquarters in hong kong is not taken from that. Hong kong cannot become a place where china can evade sanctions and restrictions by hiding behind some company with an address there.
▶ 1:18:24Sec. Rubio: It is sadly fully under the control from a national security perspective of authorities in beijing.
▶ 1:18:34Sen. Coons: Sadly as part of that has lost all of the values that were in hong kong before the free press and the people that went with that as well.
▶ 1:18:45Sec. Rubio: Those are incompatible with authoritarian rule.
▶ 1:18:49Sen. Coons: Thank you for being here.
▶ 1:18:51Chair Risch: Senator murphy.
▶ 1:18:54Sen. Murphy: Thank you for being here. I just asked that at this hearing you both we consider a claim that the performing statement. It would shock americans to hear that only 12% of our foreign aid reaches recipients on the ground and the people who need the help. That is not actually an accurate number.
▶ 1:19:18Sen. Murphy: That is the amount of aid that goes directly to local groups on the ground but most of our aid runs through bigger organizations. The children, those entities are getting 80%, 85% of the aid we give them directly to recipients on the ground. What you have done to shutter usaid is illegal but I think it is bad policy and it is important for us to be operating with the same set of facts.
▶ 1:19:47Sen. Murphy: The fact is not that only 12% of taxpayer dollars are ending up in the hands of the people who really need it on the ground. Mr. secretary, I wanted to talk to you about the presidents personal business interests.
▶ 1:20:03Sen. Murphy: During his first term he made the decision to not enter into any new business deals during his presidency that trump affiliated businesses would not enter any foreign business arrangements and that made sense because it can be confusing for foreign governments to know how to win favor with the U.S. government if they have one route making concessions good for U.S.
▶ 1:20:33Sen. Murphy: National security and another route which is perhaps helping the presidents business interests. The president obviously changed that policy. In this administration's business interests are announcing new agreements and new investments into those business interests by foreign governments.
▶ 1:20:56Sen. Murphy: It stands to reason that that creates a problem for foreign policy and a problem for foreign governments in which they don't know what the best way is to get on good terms with the U.S. government and the white house. Is it to do what's right for america national security or might it also need to do a business deal with the president and the entities he controls?
▶ 1:21:21Sen. Murphy: Just to clarify, when the presidents businesses are engaged in negotiations with the uae for instance on their
▶ 1:21:32Stable: Business. There was this big abasement announced recently, you are not part of those negotiations. Those are being done by the presidents family or those representing the president?
▶ 1:21:46Sec. Rubio: I am not aware that the president is wild in managing any business other than the presidency of the united states. His family is allowed to make business deals. They continue to operate the enterprise this -- enterprises. I don't accept the notion that these deals in qatar has to do with the president. Qatar bought from boeing.
▶ 1:22:20Sec. Rubio: Both bills were involved with investments in the united states and/or investments in the uae or saudi arabia.
▶ 1:22:29Sen. Murphy: Uae did announce a massive investment in rural liberty financial which is controlled by the president and the president actively engages in these businesses. He uses his social media to market the business is being run by his family. He was going to his social media feed and you will see him marketing his main point. -- his meme coin.
▶ 1:22:58Sec. Rubio: That was not an announcement as part of his visit to the middle east.
▶ 1:23:04Sen. Murphy: We are obviously business deals being done between trump entities and these countries. Let me ask you about the one that is most confusing to this committee which is the planned gift of a plane to either the united states government or the president. Is it your understanding that this luxury plane that qatar has offered the president and the president has announced he is willing to accept it as a gift to the U.S.
▶ 1:23:34Sen. Murphy: Government or is it a gift ultimately to the president himself that he can use?
▶ 1:23:41Sec. Rubio: You would have to talk to the department because this is a temporary plane for air force one, the new air force one which is way off of its delivery schedule. That would be with the air force. They operate air force one. My understanding of it has been from the very beginning that this plane was identified after talking to boeing about what other planes around the world could be used now. They identified the ones that qatar had as an opportunity and as a result the uae has an opportunity for one.
▶ 1:24:09Sen. Murphy: Is not your understanding that the plane will belong to the president or to the presidents library after?
▶ 1:24:18Sec. Rubio: I not involved at that level. I have never heard that before. Definitely will replace air force one which is an air force plane.
▶ 1:24:25Sen. Murphy: Really ask you about the dinner having thursday night. The president has offered access to him to the 200 top purchasers of his meme coin. Reports are that half or more of those individuals meeting with him in a vip reception are foreigners. Do you have a list of those foreign individuals who will be meeting with the president?
▶ 1:24:53Sec. Rubio: I don't. I did not know there was a dinner on thursday night. I am not sure what you're referring to.
▶ 1:24:59Sen. Murphy: So you don't know whether any of the foreign individuals who will be meeting with the president this thursday night are on our list of sanctioned individuals or whether those individuals have connections to terrorist organizations brought?
▶ 1:25:13Sec. Rubio: If they had links to terrorism the department of homeland security would not allow them into the country. You are asking me about something I don't know about.
▶ 1:25:22Sen. Murphy: This a dinner that the president is having. It is likely going to involve some very significant foreign interests. You have to be pretty wealthy in order to be able to get inside his dinner. Isn't that a relevant question for the secretary of state? Foreign entities will be speaking to the president. It is naive to believe they will not be talking about national security matters.
▶ 1:25:47Sec. Rubio: I don't think that is the case because I would be aware there was a case. I interact with government officials and others in government with other countries. You are asking about a dinner that I don't know anything about. I don't know anything about this dinner. This is the first thing I've heard about it. I will keep the presidents social schedule. It is not in my pocket. I cannot comment on a dinner at a know anything about.
▶ 1:26:09Sen. Murphy: That represents a real problem for this committee because there is clearly a way around the state department for foreign individuals of significant influence and wealth to be able to directly lobby the president of the united states. The answer is that you don't know this is happening. The dinner in itself.
▶ 1:26:27Sec. Rubio: I don't know what the guest list is but I have rented to the president of fifa from the world cup. He is here all the time. He is a private individual, not a government entity. He is friendly with the president. He does not have to go through me to meet with the president. The president has relationships with people he has known for a longtime. Some of them are foreigners. That is not unusual. You are implying an impact from a dinner that I cannot comment on.
▶ 1:26:56Sen. Murphy: You should probably get your hands on the list to make sure they are not individuals there who are perhaps contravening national security interests.
▶ 1:27:01Sec. Rubio: I don't have any concern about that about the president having dinner with someone who will contravene the national security of the united states.
▶ 1:27:09Chair Risch: Senator king
▶ 1:27:17Chair Risch: Senator kiaine.
▶ 1:27:20Sen. Kaine: In response to an earlier question, you posited a question back, but is one thing that has strengthened vladimir putin's hand in ukraine. I would like to introduce for the record in article dated february 28 from nbc news titled "state department terminates U.S.
▶ 1:27:41Sen. Kaine: A part of ukraine energy grid restoration." I was in ukraine the day after the bombing and spoke to usaid staff. They will either be laid off in the middle of summer work september. That is subject to litigation. They talked about the fact that the grant cancellation canceled a grant that usaid had in place for hundreds of millions of dollars that has been used to restore the ukrainian energy grid after attacks by russians.
▶ 1:28:12Sen. Kaine: I can give other examples. That is the one that is most present on my mind. Mr. secretary, I want to ask you about the program, united states refugee assistance program. This is a program let's take manages together with other cabinet secretaries, dhs and hhs. The state plays the lead management role. It is how to manage the U.S. refugee assistance programs in tandem with contractors who help united states.
▶ 1:28:42Sen. Kaine: By executive order on the first day of his presidency, president trump paused all refugee programs and has canceled contracts to the agencies like the U.S. catholic church or the lutheran refugee services or church services who have been reselling refugees. Those programs are paused.
▶ 1:29:03Sen. Kaine: There is litigation but as far as I know the united states or the administration has not withdrawn the executive order essentially through this administration, no refugee programs for anyone except in early february the president announced a special refugee program for africana farmers. Justified by some concerns about south african foreign policy but a claim that these were persecuted individuals.
▶ 1:29:34Sen. Kaine: Right now the U.S. refugee program allows a special program for africana farmers, the first group of home were at the airport in virginia not long ago while shutting off the refugee programs for everyone else. Do you think africana farmers are the most persecuted group in the world?
▶ 1:29:50Sec. Rubio: I think those 40 my people felt they were persecuted and they passed every sort of checkmark that had to be checked off in terms of meeting the requirements for that. They live in a country where farms are taken, the land is taken on a racial basis.
▶ 1:30:04Sen. Kaine: Are they more persecuted than uighur muslims or more persecuted in cuba or venezuela or nicaragua? More persecuted than those who would be threatened should they return to afghanistan by violence from the taliban?
▶ 1:30:21Sec. Rubio: The problem we face is the volume problem. If you look at all the persecuted people in the world, it is millions of people. They cannot all come here.
▶ 1:30:31Sen. Kaine: Why prioritize africana farmers?
▶ 1:30:34Sec. Rubio: It is a small subset on a new issue will be the president identified it as a problem. That is different from having these programs that were basically spending money to give people loving communities and accommodate them and was acting as a magnet.
▶ 1:30:48Sen. Kaine: Let me challenge you. I will just say for the public because we want to understand about the persecution of africana farmers. Look at the composition of the south african government. Since july of 2024 there is a government of national unity and the opposition party today, the africana party, it is part of the governing coalition.
▶ 1:31:16Sen. Kaine: They joined the governing coalition a year ago and the leader of that party was given the remit of agriculture minister, john steen housing, the leader of the former africana party, still widely representing after candace. He is the minister of agriculture in africa -- south africa right now. I assume that this claim of persecution of africana farmers is completely specious.
▶ 1:31:45Sen. Kaine: Are you aware ever during the apartheid era in south africa did the united states establish a special program to allow south african blacks who were treated as second-class citizens a special program to claim refugee status in the united states I would pop up --?
▶ 1:32:01Sec. Rubio: I was probably in ninth grade.
▶ 1:32:04Sen. Kaine: I don't expect you to know. Never has there been a program, a special program for africans to come in as refugees to the united states. We have allowed special programs for people being persecuted for religion, soviet era choose, special programs for people fleeing communism, cuba, vietnam , the soviet union.
▶ 1:32:29Sen. Kaine: We have never allowed a special program to allow african into the united states in an expedited refugee status until now. African farmers living in a nation governed by a government of national unity that includes the africana party and actually even more right wing africana party is also included in the coalition government.
▶ 1:32:50Sen. Kaine: Would you agree with me that if we are interpreting the statutory phrase, the will justified fear of persecution, we should try to do that in an evenhanded way?
▶ 1:33:03Sec. Rubio: We should do that in the interest of the national security of the united states.
▶ 1:33:07Sen. Kaine: I agree with you. We should. Should we try to do it in an evenhanded way? For example, should be saying if you are persecuted on the grounds of your religion, we will let you in if you're a christian but not if you are a muslim?
▶ 1:33:22Sec. Rubio: I think the U.S. has the right to prioritize the allowance of who they want to allow.
▶ 1:33:29Sen. Kaine: A will justified fear of persecution.
▶ 1:33:33Sec. Rubio: Their farms were being burned down and they thought they were being killed. They were afraid for their lives.
▶ 1:33:40Sen. Kaine: Should be applied in an evenhanded way?
▶ 1:33:43Sec. Rubio: Our foreign policy does not require evenhandedness.
▶ 1:33:46Sen. Kaine: It says you are entitled to insurance if you demonstrate a well justified fear of persecution.
▶ 1:33:54Sec. Rubio: Not entitled, allowed.
▶ 1:33:56Sen. Kaine: A different standard based upon the color of somebody's skin?
▶ 1:34:00Sec. Rubio: I am not arguing that, apparently you are.
▶ 1:34:02Sen. Kaine: That would be unacceptable.
▶ 1:34:09Sec. Rubio: The united states has the right to pick and choose who they allow.
▶ 1:34:11Sen. Kaine: Even based on the color of their skin?
▶ 1:34:14Sec. Rubio: You are the one talking about the color of their skin, not me. You have demonstrated enough because you think anybody should be allowed to this country for any reason.
▶ 1:34:26Sen. Kaine: Nobody said that.
▶ 1:34:28Sec. Rubio: We will prioritize people based on the interest of this country. That is a small number of people coming.
▶ 1:34:33Sen. Kaine: You said this weekend that there would be more.
▶ 1:34:36Sec. Rubio: In other cases, it is harder to vent. The united states admits people every year. One million coming to this country illegally every year.
▶ 1:34:45Sen. Kaine: Now there is one group that has an easy pass into this country for the first time this administration has said after candace -- africanas getting easy pass and you cannot say to the american public that we should apply the statute in an evenhanded roi -- an evenhanded way?
▶ 1:35:05Sec. Rubio: It should be applied in the national interest of the united states. Our policy should be based on the national interest of the U.S., period. If there is a subset of people easier to vent and we have a better understanding of who they are, they will receive preference. There are a lot of sad stories around the world. Millions of people around the world. It is heartbreaking. We cannot assume millions of people around the world. You have to have a process of deciding who do you prioritize and who do you allow. Do it all the time.
▶ 1:35:36Sec. Rubio: We do it in our immigration system. Unfortunately it is based on family connection and not on what they will contribute towards society from a merit standpoint. That should be changed for that will require statutory changes. The bottom line is this notion that we have to accept anyone who wants to come to the united states is absurd. No country in the world has an immigration policy like that.
▶ 1:35:57Sen. Kaine: Know what is arguing that we should. I yield back.
▶ 1:36:02Chair Risch: Thank you very much. >> secretary rubio, very good to see you today. Very proud of what you are doing. Careful to call you a friend and to watch what you are doing around the world in working on the president's agenda. I want to talk about energy for a moment.
▶ 1:36:26Chair Risch: Our allies in europe are waking up to the security and economic threats posed by their reliance on russian energy. Despite some progress, many of our european partners are still hesitant to diversify their energy portfolio, energy sources and ensure that they can keep the lights on.
▶ 1:36:52Chair Risch: This recent nationwide power outage in spain provided a timely reminder that intermittent source of energy cannot replace reliable baseload power that comes from fossil fuels or other steady sources. Despite their acknowledgment of this threat, you is still making it very difficult for energy company to do business on the continent.
▶ 1:37:17Chair Risch: In fact, the european commission promulgated regulations in the last year regarding esg due diligence and methane emissions that will soon make it all but impossible due to the reporting requirements for major gas exporters to do business in europe.
▶ 1:37:39Chair Risch: Secretary rubio, how can you work with our partners in europe to build a more reasonable, more diverse energy trade and regulatory framework that allows companies to deliver power that europe so badly needs?
▶ 1:37:53Sec. Rubio: When you talk about the european union and these individual companies -- countries, they have a degree of sovereignty. We can certainly remind them of the vulnerability of their energy grid. It is everyone's consistence belief that one of the factors that went into that of a to invade ukraine was the belief that europe was so dependent on them for energy of the they would do nothing about it but that turned out to be did -- to not be the case.
▶ 1:38:23Sec. Rubio: To diversify, on saturday was the first delivery of U.S. elegy to italy. They have opened up a terminal to accept it. Obviously these things take time. If that is what led to the collapse of the grid and there was another collapse today as well in spain, it is a reminder of the vulnerability of energy. The vulnerability for purposes of conducting 21st century congress but also vulnerability to being used as a geopolitical weapon.
▶ 1:38:55Sec. Rubio: I think that among many of our allies in europe, there is a growing, not just awareness but a growing fear of how vulnerable they are on energy both to foreign actors and because of the strings that will be placed by ai and other new technologies on our energy grid in the years to come.
▶ 1:39:17Sen. Daines: I want to shift gears and come back to part of the world that does not get a lot of attention but is important to central asia. Think about central asia, the five countries, kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, uzbekistan, pakistan, they look to the south to afghanistan, they let south and west to iran.
▶ 1:39:51Sen. Daines: There is great potential that I do not believe is being utilized. An example of that is a lack of a trans-caspian pipeline. You have these five central asian companies -- countries and the caspian sea. 20 miles is all that is needed for an interconnect or to connect turkmenistan into azure blue jean and into the pipeline toward europe.
▶ 1:40:22Sen. Daines: It is just 20 miles for that interconnect are. Turkmenistan has the fifth largest reserves of natural gas in the world, huge potential. Obviously with their neighbors with china and russia and iran, getting the gas out is a challenge but there is a path forward through the caspian sea. Mr. secretary, do you believe that completing that 20 mile caspian interconnect or would be in the best interest of the united states and our allies?
▶ 1:40:52Sec. Rubio: I think the answer is yes. It sounds to me that way from what you have described. I am not an expert on those 20 miles but I can see from the way you put it that it makes sense. It reminds me once again of why we want so much of our foreign policy to be driven at the regional and embassy level.
▶ 1:41:12Sec. Rubio: Those are the kinds of opportunities that in a different context were how we were conducting an policy would be lost, those are the opportunities that will be driven from the bottom up. We would have embassies and individuals who would identify these operations and within that bureau be able to operationalize it by conducting energy diplomacy. Potentially are there american companies or allied companies -- I apologize.
▶ 1:41:41Sec. Rubio: Are there american companies or allied companies that can contribute to that effort, that can help us to fill the gap and provide the contracting work needed.
▶ 1:41:49Sen. Daines: What is fascinating is when you engage those countries, I was the first U.S. senator to be in turkmenistan in 13 years I went over there last november.
▶ 1:42:01Sec. Rubio: As you can see energy is a very emotional thing to me.
▶ 1:42:05Sen. Daines: I get choked up too thinking about it. The talk about multi-vector diplomacy because you have the russians and the chinese who are actively engaged and I think there is a bit of a vacuum and we can help with that vacuum because they want to work with us. They were thrilled with this election in november. I spoke to every one of the central asian presidents. Each one of them in one on one meetings.
▶ 1:42:31Sen. Daines: They were very pleasedo see the outcome in november now they are ready to move forward with a close relationship with united states and I think azerbaijan and that interconnector, that is the cork on the wine bottle of central asia that can release this energy toward friends of the U.S. instead of being dependent on russia and china. They have been a very valuable ally in the global war on terror and the counterterrorism mission.
▶ 1:43:00Sen. Daines: I would just throw out you have a lot on your plate but we can encourage the modernization of trade relations in that part of the world where there is a lot of great power competition going on. Mr. secretary, it is good to see you. Godspeed. Thank you for all you do for our country.
▶ 1:43:22Chair Risch: Senator merkley.
▶ 1:43:24Sen. Merkely: Thank you. Greetings secretary rubio. It was a pleasure to work with you on a number of human rights issues related to china, taiwan, tibet, hong kong and the muslim uighur prevention act which will spread to other countries your goods made -- via goods made by slave labor in china.
▶ 1:43:51Sen. Merkely: I want to consider another humanitarian tragedy, the conditions in gaza. I supported israel going after hamas following october 7. We are now over one year and a half into this. There is a new phase of invincible I will try -- events which I will try.
▶ 1:44:23Sen. Merkely: To use the term encouraged migration. These terms are considered a euphemism for forced displacement and the strategies of forced migration our food denial, the demolition of homes so there is no place to return to and driving people from one area in the gaza strip, south to the southern side.
▶ 1:44:46Sen. Merkely: Then there is a new plan called operation gideons chariot, a mass call up of troops in israel . Netanyahu said we will take over all the areas of the gaza strip. On that forced displacement and the demolition of homes, I want to put up a chart to exaggerate the point.
▶ 1:45:11Sen. Merkely: This is the satellite images by the war -- before the war, detailed homes, mass damage before the cease-fire and since the cease-fire, the entire neighborhood turned to rubble. Basically nothing left that is habitable. I want to just make the point that it is not just some theory about the strategy. The strategy is being implemented very aggressively and effectively.
▶ 1:45:40Sen. Merkely: Let me return to the issue of food denial. The office for coordination of humanitarian affairs estimated that in february 2000 children were admitted to treatment of acute malnutrition. I was thinking about the strips that are used, mid and upper arm circumference. It is a measure of the bicep.
▶ 1:46:06Sen. Merkely: I saw them being used and you would see a child and you would think this child is two years old and their arm is as thin as a toothpick.
▶ 1:46:22Sen. Merkely: I was struck when a health representative said, "I have seen them in the a seen them in the wards, a child that is five years old and I thought he was two." 2000 children with a coupon attrition, that is a nice way of saying we are starving. In march of 36 children were admitted for acute malnutrition.
▶ 1:46:51Sen. Merkely: The denial of food began, the blockade began march so the numbers are undoubtedly much higher in april and now intimate. The world health organization reported that 57 children have died from the effects of malnutrition. That blockade shows signs of being changed. Netanyahu has made public comments. He said we will not stand by.
▶ 1:47:19Sen. Merkely: We cannot reach a point of starvation for practical and diplomatic reasons. He went on to say that mass starvation is a redline that could cost israel support from U.S.. Yesterday five trucks went in and there is a plan to get up to 100 trucks. Five trucks is 1% of the amount needed for daily food supplements and 100 trucks is still only 20%, an area that is already extremely hungry.
▶ 1:47:50Sen. Merkely: This has led canada, france and britain to say we cannot stand by while the netanyahu government pursues these egregious actions. The level of human suffering is intolerable. I guess my question here is the U.S. is a very close ally to israel both in military, security support, economic support.
▶ 1:48:11Sen. Merkely: Is the administration conveying to the netanyahu government that encouraging migration through food denial is an unacceptable strategy?
▶ 1:48:21Sec. Rubio: I will not discuss for many different reasons what we share with our partners and allies. I will walk you through some of the steps that you have rightly outlined.
▶ 1:48:34Sen. Merkely: I am trying to get where the administration stands.
▶ 1:48:38Sec. Rubio: I will be more brief.
▶ 1:48:41Sen. Merkely: I will have to reclaim some time.
▶ 1:48:43Sec. Rubio: Do you want me to answer?
▶ 1:48:45Sen. Merkely: I do want you to answer but hopefully answering the question is pretty simple. Does the U.S. consider this an acceptable strategy?
▶ 1:48:53Sec. Rubio: I would say that we were pleased to see that aid starting to flow in. I understand it is not sufficient. Another 100 trucks are behind that and maybe more in the next few days. We were in rome three days ago with the world food program to walk through some of the ideas they had for distribution on the ground.
▶ 1:49:17Sec. Rubio: Ultimately the answer is for this to end hopefully with the elimination of hamas because the people of gaza deserve a more peaceful future which they will never have as long as hamas exists.
▶ 1:49:27Sen. Merkely: Thank you. Brief and well done. Thank you. The second part of this is the systematic destruction of remaining homes as a way to make it impossible for people to stay in gaza. Does the U.S. discourage that? Is it discouraging the netanyahu government from continuing that strategy?
▶ 1:49:48Sec. Rubio: We don't do that as a strategy. We understand they are targeting elements of hamas. They believe they need to root out the remaining elements of hamas who have been an impediment to multiple cease-fires that have been negotiated and even agreed upon by hamas and vetoed by hamas internal.
▶ 1:50:08Sen. Merkely: It sounds like the U.S. is not concerned about that or you characterized it differently. There have been reports of the administration working behind the scenes to develop a plan to help deport gazans to libya. Have you been involved in any discussions related to deporting people from gaza to libya?
▶ 1:50:27Sec. Rubio: There is no deportation. What we have talked about is if someone voluntarily and willingly says I want to go somewhere else for some period of time because I'm sick, because my children need to go to school, are there countries willing to accept them for some period of time? Those will be voluntary decisions by individuals.
▶ 1:50:46Sen. Merkely: That they are voluntary decisions because there is no clean water, no food and bombing is all around you, is it really a voluntary decision?
▶ 1:50:56Sec. Rubio: Ultimately that is the point. You don't want people trapped there. They may want to come back and lived there in the future but right now they cannot and there is one nation willing to accept them in the interim, yes we have asked countries whether they would be open to accepting people. Not as a permanent situation but as a bridge toward reconstruction.
▶ 1:51:14Sec. Rubio: Sen. merkely: does that include libya?
▶ 1:51:16Sec. Rubio: I am not aware of libya.
▶ 1:51:18Sen. Merkely: Thank you. We will just summarize since my time is up. I think the U.S. has a moral responsibility to fiercely convey to the netanyahu government that using food as an instrument of war is unacceptable. It is a violation of international humanitarian law. It is mass punishment.
▶ 1:51:43Sen. Merkely: We have now children who are dying and while netanyahu says he does not want to see mass starvation, to drawing the line at mass starvation when we are seeing real starvation right now. We owe it to all of our connection and our close relationship to israel to powerfully convey the importance of not just five trucks per day like yesterday or 100 trucks per day but enough to end the starvation. Is that a policy you can get behind?
▶ 1:52:12Sec. Rubio: Ultimately revealed and provide people a future in gaza?
▶ 1:52:16Sen. Merkely: Enough trucks to end the starvation?
▶ 1:52:19Sec. Rubio: We have made that. I don't think you would have seen the events of the last couple of days without our engagement and the engagement of others. Israel remains a strong ally. We understand why hamas cannot exist. We are very happy to see that they have allowed aid to flow and we hope that will continue.
▶ 1:52:39Sen. Merkely: Thank you for your tolerance on this important topic, Mr. chairman. Netanyahu did say he was responding to pressure from american politicians. I assume that is the administration saying that we cannot accept mass starvation. I would encourage you to push not for 100 trucks but enough food to end the fact that children are starving and adults are starving.
▶ 1:53:04Sen. Merkely: In a sense -- innocents are starving and we need to end that. >> thank you Mr. chairman. Secretary rubio, good to see you here. I know you know about iran's nuclear ambitions. I agree with president trump's feel that there must be complete dismantlement of tehran's nuclear enrichment capabilities.
▶ 1:53:34Sen. Merkely: A fall in the jcpoa was its failure to address iran's support for terrorist proxies. What insurance is the administration seeking from iran on its support for terrorist proxies as part of the negotiations?
▶ 1:53:48Sec. Rubio: Interestingly enough the negotiations initially have been focused entirely although obviously we are aware of their sponsorship of terrorism in the region including hezbollah and other groups like this and militia in iraq and their efforts to get back into syria. Right now the focus at this point of this has been their enrichment capability and their insistence on enrichment capabilities.
▶ 1:54:13Sec. Rubio: I would say that if we have sanctions related, related to the sponsorship of terrorism and the violation of weapons conventions and the like, there are long-range munitions, those sanctions will remain. If they are not part of the deal, the sanctions will remain as a result of thought. I can say the focus of conversations over the last few weeks with Mr. will cough and the iranians has been on this enrichment matter which is the most radical matter.
▶ 1:54:46Sec. Rubio: The iranian positions they have a matter to enrich as a thing of national pride. They can have a civil nuclear program without enrichment capability and that capability would be weaponized at some point in the future or could be weaponized and that is a threat that cannot be accepted.
▶ 1:55:01Sen. Mccormick: Thank you. On syria, I know many will work with you on implementing the president's plan to lift sanctions and protect U.S. priorities. What assurances is the administration seeking in your discussions with interim authorities on counterterrorism priorities including the fight against isis during the process of looking for sanctions?
▶ 1:55:22Sec. Rubio: Isis hates the transitional authority. They hate everybody and this government. And they pose a great risk. I don't think the issue is a matter of willingness or a lack of willingness. It is a lack of capability. It will be a role to play in the interim by the U.S. and our allies and others in ensuring that isis cannot metastasize and grow.
▶ 1:55:48Sec. Rubio: One of the most threatening things we would face is an isis prison breaks where suddenly you have a bunch of isis fighters loose on the streets undermining the government. I think part of this document -- dynamic is that every day that goes by the traditional authority does not have control of the government and of daily life to some extent and are able to provide basic government services is a day that isis has the ability to reconstitute and grow as a threat to the transitional authority but ultimately to the broader region.
▶ 1:56:17Sec. Rubio: I don't sense from them a lack of commitment and desire to do something about it. I think frankly at this moment it is a capacity issue. They simply do not have the capacity to assume the anti-isis effort by themselves.
▶ 1:56:32Sec. Rubio: But we hope that was a fully integrated syrian military that includes everybody, if you can have no other armed groups in the company -- country, except those under the syrian government, that will take some time to build. We look forward to helping as much as we can.
▶ 1:56:51Sen. Mccormick: Along the same lines, turkey has significant interest and syria is an important part of the steps that have taken place. Our allies in israel and jordan are concerned about the ambitions there especially in southern syria. How are you managing those tensions and allied concerns as it relates to turkey's role in syria?
▶ 1:57:13Sec. Rubio: In the case of israel we have had conversations about what we view as an opportunity for israel. If syria is stable and has a government with no interest as they have said in fighting a war with the authorities, they have to prove it but they have said this is a nationalist project. They are seeking to build a nation. They don't view themselves as a launchpad for revolution or a launchpad for attacks against israel. We think this is extraordinary.
▶ 1:57:42Sec. Rubio: If you have a stable government in syria that encompasses all of the elements of society and has no interest in fighting wars with israel at the borders or anything else, that is an extraordinary achievement for israel' security. Sthey are concerned about the turkish presence and we have done some things on that front. One of the key points will be for a basing inside of syria. -- foreign military basing inside of syria.
▶ 1:58:10Sec. Rubio: That includes russians but the turks have wanted that as well especially in the central part of the country. The turks have a presence in the north as you know. One of the things that are central command's influential in doing is helping the traditional authority to enter a preliminary agreement with kurdish authorities in the north which should lead to the kurds becoming part of the broader syrian government and broader security forces.
▶ 1:58:39Sec. Rubio: The jordanians despite concerns have been very helpful and encouraging in our outreach to the transitional authority.
▶ 1:58:44Sen. Mccormick: Thank you.
▶ 1:58:46Chair Risch: Senator schatz.
▶ 1:58:50Sen. Schatz: Thank you for being here. I appreciate our ongoing dialogue even if we are in some disagreement about a number of things. I will try to work the senator out of you here. A bunch of yes or no questions. They are not trick questions. Are you still the acting usaid administrator?
▶ 1:59:10Sec. Rubio: Yes.
▶ 1:59:13Sen. Schatz: Do you control hiring and firing at usaid?
▶ 1:59:18Sec. Rubio: Yes.
▶ 1:59:20Sen. Schatz: Do you control that at state?
▶ 1:59:23Sec. Rubio: We rely on our bureaus. That is a technical question. I did not hire the right officers.
▶ 1:59:30Sen. Schatz: You ultimately in charge?
▶ 1:59:33Sec. Rubio: Yes.
▶ 1:59:34Sen. Schatz: Did you review all of the programs terminated by the foreign assistance review?
▶ 1:59:39Sec. Rubio: Yes.
▶ 1:59:40Sen. Schatz: Do you have the authority to direct any state or usaid staff to brief congress?
▶ 1:59:46Sec. Rubio: Yes.
▶ 1:59:48Sen. Schatz: Can you have Mr. lujan or you come back to congress and talk about usaid in the context of the end of the federal fiscal year?
▶ 2:00:02Sec. Rubio: That is already planned by not just him but others because we will have to update you on that and our reorganization of the organization. Whatever omb designed to do with money. There is a host of things for us to talk about.
▶ 2:00:15Sen. Schatz: I just want to illustrate, whenever I talk with you, I feel pretty encouraged. And then stuff does not happen. I wrote eight unanswered letters and I requested those to be entered into the record. Without objection. My staff has sent 200 unanswered questions about this much paper. Consultation is not a courtesy.
▶ 2:00:44Sen. Schatz: It is required by law and these are perfunctory, these are the normal pace of operations. Radio silence. You are very responsive but your department and usaid has not been responsive.
▶ 2:01:04Sen. Schatz: Foreign affairs reform, the anti-control act, the foreign assistance act and the annual appropriations bills for state and foreign operations have been violated in multiple ways. On march 12 numeral we plan to engage congress as required by law and reality before we start drafting a plan to bring usaid. That did not happen. As you know, we have a pledge. We all the global fund $1.4 million.
▶ 2:01:35Sen. Schatz: I spoke with the head of the fund in response to multiple requests. You told me those funds will be released and it has not happened. I would like you to respond to that. I like you. I like our working relationship. What is happening as we have a good conversation and it seems to be getting sandbagged in this vast bureaucracy.
▶ 2:01:57Sec. Rubio: That is part of the reason why we want to reorganize is to have less bureaucracy. I would not blame that on this. We believe we have complied with the law on every step of the way including through advising congress of our roles and now with the reorganization, we have not issued a congressional notification. We have issued a preliminary. We have taken input from members. I personally signed a letter that should have been delivered to you. It was in response to your latest letter. I hope you did get that.
▶ 2:02:28Sec. Rubio: We will continue to engage with you all this as well.
▶ 2:02:34Sen. Schatz: It seems to me that most of us agree that there is virtue in reforming any big institution and then allowing usaid operations with the state department and the president's and the secretary's foreign-policy objectives is beneficial. The question is can we do this lawfully in a way that does not damage our international reputation?
▶ 2:03:04Sen. Schatz: Mothers who have fled nigeria are watching their babies starve. Children in south sudan are dying of cholera. Families are dying because they have been cut off from their hiv medications. There are about 103 deaths in our -- an hour.
▶ 2:03:27Sen. Schatz: We can talk about the reorganization of the state department but this becomes quickly not an abstraction, not a normal public policy tug and pull. The way that this has been done, set aside our disagreement about whether it is done lawfully. It has been done in a catastrophic faction -- catastrophic fashion. On some level, that is water under the bridge.
▶ 2:03:52Sen. Schatz: What I want from you is a commitment to try to get an appropriations bill that is done on a bipartisan basis that reconstitutes the foreign aid enterprise. I think we can do fewer things. I think we can be more narrow in our focus. But you are pushing on an open door. Instead of pushing on that open door, you are lighting the room on fire. Maybe that was not your intent.
▶ 2:04:21Sen. Schatz: I think we have two objectives right now. Minimize suffering and reputational damage. That is one line of effort. The other is how do we get back to the regular order where we can do a bill together? I would like your thoughts.
▶ 2:04:34Sec. Rubio: That is the intent. To rebuild the foreign aid enterprise under the state department. It is something multiple secretaries of state before me wanted to do because we want foreign aid to be part of our diplomacy toolbox and the way we engage the world, not its own separate entity but all of it coordinated with the other. That is our hope on the reorganization. That is our endeavor. I do not think it is fair that you highlighted a couple of points. In south sudan, there are distribution problems.
▶ 2:05:06Sec. Rubio: Pepfar is 80% operative right now.
▶ 2:05:09Sen. Schatz: You are required to spend 100% of the money. Not 80%.
▶ 2:05:13Sec. Rubio: 15% is funding programs we have canceled because they don't reach -- there are elements of individual programs that were not meeting the mandate of the program. They were not being delivered. There is a day we identify fraud in namibia, where millions of dollars of usaid was found on the store shelves being resold in the marketplace. Our ambassador discovered it.
▶ 2:05:42Sec. Rubio: We tried to work with local authorities to fix it and it was not fixed. He was weeping announcing this decision because he hated to do it. Even if the money is distributed, sometimes it cannot be -- the aid does not reach people because armed elements in south sudan are impeding aid from reaching the recipients.
▶ 2:06:01Sen. Schatz: It is a very complicated world in terms of delivering aid.
▶ 2:06:05Chair Risch: You were out of time.
▶ 2:06:07Sen. Schatz: With your indulgence, 30 more seconds. You and senator murphy had an exchange about this. It is just not true that only 12% of the aid. Reaches recipients. . The way you get to 12% is it is 12% local ngos. That is excluding care, excluding the world food program, that is excluding catholic relief services.
▶ 2:06:35Sen. Schatz: If you will count that as overhead or inefficiency, secretary rubio, we have honest disagreements. But that number has been given to you and it is not an accurate assessment of the extent to which aid reaches the people who need it. If there is an enterprise to reduce overhead, count me in. But it is not 80% overhead. That is not what is happening.
▶ 2:07:02Sec. Rubio: That number was cement the powers number. She regretted that one of the things she was unable to do is improve upon that number.
▶ 2:07:12Chair Risch: Thank you. >> it is wonderful to have you back in the committee. I want to take a moment to honor the incredible work that your leadership has accomplished.
▶ 2:07:35Chair Risch: Unleased american energy, secured our southern border, reduce illegal immigration by 95%, reimposed maximum deterrence on iran, pushed back on chinese aggression, created new deals for chinese companies -- U.S. companies, I really appreciate the strong leadership. Monday, you can see the picture of you in today's washington post, meeting with the pope.
▶ 2:08:03Chair Risch: If you take a look at here, do you want to comment on that? We did all of these things and you got to meet the pope.
▶ 2:08:12Sec. Rubio: I started the morning with the pulp and I ended at a kennedy center event at the white house with the U.S. president and they were both americans.
▶ 2:08:24Sen. Barrasso: Amazing times. I want to talk about iran. In the first 100 days the pressure came to full force once again. The administration sanctioned 72 entities, 74 vessels and 18 additional entities. I think the maximum pressure campaign is working. We are already seeing a reduction in iran's ability to refund destabilizing operations. How will the administration.
▶ 2:08:55Sen. Barrasso: Maintain this momentum. And continue the talks going on?
▶ 2:08:56Sec. Rubio: We will continue with the sanctions until there is a deal. There is another set of sanctions out there involving the sponsorship of terrorism and things that they are doing. Until there is a deal, there will be sanctions. That is just the way it works. The president has issued an executive order for maximum pressure and that is being executed every single day. None of these are being slowly down while we are engaged in these talks.
▶ 2:09:24Sec. Rubio: If we are able to reach a deal, that could be part of it. But we are not at that stage yet. We hope that there can be something done. These will not be easy. One additional note, there is a separate set of sanctions because the snapback provisions. That is on another clock, completely different from ours. I want to be clear about that. What they decide to do with their sanctions, maybe we will do a deal with iran and they will be satisfied.
▶ 2:09:52Sec. Rubio: I met with the e3 again four days ago. They are moving forward on their process independent from ours that can impose additional sanctions as early as july, august, october, november, september of this year.
▶ 2:10:10Sen. Barrasso: Iran is neighbors with syria. President trump met with the new president of syria. He has urged the leader to deport foreign terrorists and help the U.S. counter isis. I want to talk about the concerns about the resurgence of isis. A significant concern. 2500 active isis fighters operating in syria and iraq. 10,000 isis fighters in prison in syria. What is your assessment of the threat posed in isis?
▶ 2:10:42Sen. Barrasso: I was visiting our wyoming troops in eastern syria I wonder how that has helped to address the threat?
▶ 2:10:48Sec. Rubio: There are two major threats facing the traditional authority. The first is a resurgence of isis, most of them foreign fighters. That is a significant element. There are parts of the country where the traditional authority does not control it and it creates an ungoverned space for isis to come in. This is the first threat. The other is iran.
▶ 2:11:11Sec. Rubio: Iran has documented its efforts to get behind groups on the ground and stir up trouble in the country. These threats are different but they posed two of the most serious threats to the transitional authority efforts to create a nation in israel -- I'm sorry comments -- I'm sorry, in syria that does not provide life that the people want including people who are abroad who have expressed an interest
▶ 2:11:44Sec. Rubio: In returning. We have seen some of those people begin to return because of the U.S. sanctions announcement. We want that trend to continue because syria will need them to rebuild their country.
▶ 2:11:54Sen. Barrasso: President trump has laid out a plan for gaza. You recently said we support a future for the people of gaza that is free of him also be full of opportunity. How do you envision a transition?
▶ 2:12:06Sec. Rubio: That is the central question and not easy to solve. We have engaged with partners. There was an egyptian effort and there is an saudi effort now. We have engaged with regional partners to come up with the constructs of what that looks like.
▶ 2:12:22Sec. Rubio: In the midst of the conflict ongoing, most of the attention has been paid to the humanitarian situation and the freeing of hostages and multiple failed efforts of a cease-fire was her ongoing and continuing and the hopes of ending the sensation of hostility at some point. Thought has been given to it. I think we can find the funds to do it. I think you can find the partners to do it.
▶ 2:12:47Sec. Rubio: I think the central question for the future of gaza is going to be who governs it because as long as there is a group like hamas there, it will be very difficult to envision long term and prosperity. Whether it is hamas or some successor organization, that has to be a factor that you eliminate and one of the wages prevent it is by having a government authority on the ground in gaza I can provide the security necessary to allow there to be the peace necessary so you can have the prosperity we hope for.
▶ 2:13:15Sen. Barrasso: Last question in terms of american industry -- american energy. Last year at biden administration paused approvals on xor's needed -- on exports needed. Moved a lot of the obstacles. I think it will help european countries who have increased purchases of U.S.
▶ 2:13:38Sen. Barrasso: Lng.has been in america as a reliable partner to europe?
▶ 2:13:47Sec. Rubio: I was commenting moment ago, on saturday the first shipment reached italy. There are other countries building terminals to receive it as well. The fact that the united states has joined the world as a reliable source of lng as an export, I think it improves our partnerships around the world.
▶ 2:14:11Sec. Rubio: We have the capacity to develop it and it is a need for our allies to diversify and in some cases make less dependent their sin, generating electricity -- their ability to generate electricity. It is the energy they will need in the years to come if you did an audit. They don't have any way to generate it now unless they rely on U.S. exports. That alone will not be enough. We will have to find other resources as well.
▶ 2:14:42Sen. Barrasso: Thank you. Keep up the great work.
▶ 2:14:45Chair Risch: Thank you.
▶ 2:14:48Sen. Van Hollen: Mr. secretary, and I served together in congress for 15 years. I've been following value, a belief in democracy and human rights abroad and honoring the constitution. That is why I can confirm you. I believe you would stand up for those principles. You have not. You have done the opposite.
▶ 2:15:16Sen. Van Hollen: You use to speak with conviction about the importance of ornate to advanced american values -- the importance of foreign aid to advance american values. Then you stood by why elon musk took a chainsaw to other assistance programs. That has left a staggering toll. Broken trust with countries, opening up for china and other adversaries and countless preventable deaths of children and others. Take sudan. The freezing of U.S.
▶ 2:15:45Sen. Van Hollen: Humanitarian assistance forced the closure of nearly 80% of the emergency food kitchens there. 2 million famine affected people were left without access to food. People died because of those actions. Mothers, fathers and children. Tons of emergency food that could have saved their lives was left rotting in warehouses because you and elon musk refused to let usaid do its job.
▶ 2:16:12Sen. Van Hollen: Sudan is a country where biden administration's own determination identified is -- a genocide is unfolding. Here is where it goes from cruel to despicable. While cutting off food aid to sudanese families living through an actual genocide, you are fast tracking white south africans for refugee status under a manufactured claim that they are the victims of genocide.
▶ 2:16:36Sen. Van Hollen: You tried to block the admission of individuals who had already been approved to come here as refugees while making bogus claims to justify granting such status to effort -- after canada -- africanas.
▶ 2:16:59Sen. Van Hollen: While you have turned away from a genocide in sudan and invented one in south africa, who teamed up with president trump to throw the ukrainian people under the bus and have been played like a fiddle like vladimir putin. Donald trump not only said he would end the war on day one. He also said he would end the war in gaza on day one.
▶ 2:17:21Sen. Van Hollen: Yet last week you were running around to go venomous snakes giving way very sensitive ai and chips technology but doing nothing to end the war in gaza and get the remaining hostages returned. For 78 days the netanyahu government did not allow a scrap of food to reach over 2 million civilians. 57 shouldn't have died from malnutrition and more than 14,000 children are in imminent danger of dying of starvation.
▶ 2:17:51Sen. Van Hollen: As senator mccain said last week , families in gaza are starving while the food they need is sitting at the border. That is a gross violation of U.S. and international law. What did you do? Nothing. Not once did you publicly call upon the netanyahu government to end the blockade. Fortunately other countries spoke out and now we see a tiny trickle going in. Where have you focus your energy instead?
▶ 2:18:22Sen. Van Hollen: Your first trip as secretary of state was to el salvador. Not to promote democracy. But to cozy up to the president who calls himself the world's coolest dictator. The result was a cash for pollution deal to deprive people living in america of their constitutional rights to due process.
▶ 2:18:44Sen. Van Hollen: The supreme court in a 9-0 decision instructed you to facilitate the return to the united states of garcia who the administration admitted was wrongfully deported to el salvador. Your response? You have openly flogd judicial orders. When asked whether you have been in touch with el salvador to return garcia, you boasted, "I would never tell you that and you know who else I would never tell?
▶ 2:19:10Sen. Van Hollen: The judge." clearly you don't care about the fourth amendment right to due process and you don't care about the first amendment either since you have been very busy snatching students off of college campuses for exercising their right to free speech. You dredged up a relic from the mccarthy era to claim that student protesters posed a threat to the foreign policy in the united states. Give me a break, Mr. secretary. You know as well as I do this is not about national security.
▶ 2:19:41Sen. Van Hollen: It is about punishing free speech. You know that an american of the government does not get to use its power to punish speech it does not like. Yet in march you boasted about revoking student visas saying, we do it every day, every time I find one of these lunatics, I take away their visa. Let's look up one of those lunatics, Mr. secretary. Ms. ostrich.
▶ 2:20:09Sen. Van Hollen: Her time was co-authoring an op-ed in her college paper on the response to the war in gaza. Your own department found zero links to terrorism, no anti-semitic statements. But you still took her visa and shipped off to detention in louisiana. And the list goes on and on.
▶ 2:20:28Sen. Van Hollen: The federal judge in the case of the columbia student was ambushed by federal agents at a citizen appointment said, "legal residents not charged with crimes or misconduct are being arrested and threatened with deportation for stating their views on the political issues of the day. Our nation is seeing times like this before especially during the red scare.
▶ 2:20:57Sen. Van Hollen: Like the mccarthy era witchhunts of the 1950's your can pairing of fear and repression is eating away at values and democracy. Back then it took one voice to cut through the hysteria with a simple question that marks the beginning of the end of that shameful era. He asked senator mccarthy did you have no sense of decency." I would ask you the same, secretary rubio. You have shown through your words and your actions what the answer is.
▶ 2:21:28Sen. Van Hollen: I have to tell you directly that I regret voting for you for secretary of state. I yield back.
▶ 2:21:34Sec. Rubio: May I respond? Your regret confirms I am doing a good job. >> that is a flippant statement.
▶ 2:21:45Chair Risch: Please allow him to respond. Your time is up, senator. Your remarks did not represent the view of this committee.
▶ 2:21:55Sec. Rubio: I cannot respond to everything he said because much of these are untrue. I am actually very proud of the work we have done with usaid. I do not regret cutting $10 million for male circumcisions in mozambique. I don't know how that makes us stronger as a nation. Can I respond?
▶ 2:22:17Chair Risch: Senator -- you had seven straight minutes.
▶ 2:22:24Sen. Barrasso: I chose to use my time that way.
▶ 2:22:27Sec. Rubio: I can go on. We spent $227,000 for big cats youtube channel from usaid. $14 million for social cohesion in mali, whatever that means. I could go on and on. I did not even bring the whole list. In the case of el salvador, absolutely. We departed gang members, including the one we had a margarita with. That guy is a human trafficker and a gang banger and the evidence will be clear.
▶ 2:22:58Chair Risch: Senator, please. Secretary rubio has the floor.
▶ 2:23:03Sen. Barrasso: He cannot make unsubstantiated claims.
▶ 2:23:06Chair Risch: Secretary rubio has the floor.
▶ 2:23:11Sen. Barrasso: He has not done it under oath.
▶ 2:23:14Sec. Rubio: Here is point. There is a division between the federal and judicial branch. The judicial branch cannot tell me where the president how to conduct foreign policy. No judge can tell me how I have to out rich today for a partner or what I need to say to them. If I do reach that form partner, I am under no obligation to share that with the judiciary branch. Just like a dress cannot order me to negotiate with the foreign minister of russia, they cannot order me to negotiate with the foreign minister of the president of el salvador.
▶ 2:23:44Sec. Rubio: And if I did have to medications, I am under no obligation under our division of powers in this country to share with the judicial branch how I conducted diplomacy of the united states. It would actually be counterproductive. If I started sharing with courts or the media my conversations with foreign leaders and all the details, no for later will talk to me again and we would break trust with them. I have complied with every court order.
▶ 2:24:12Sec. Rubio: But I will not comply with is in order to disclose what I'm saying and what we are talking about was a foreign leader because then they will not talk to me. Diplomacy does not work that way. About the student visas, I did not support anybody and I do not snatch anybody. The state department does not have offices in the street snatching anybody. I revoke visas. It is very simple. It is a privilege. People apply for student visas to come into the united states to study. If you tell me you are coming to the U.S.
▶ 2:24:39Sec. Rubio: To leave campus crusade, to take over libraries and try to bring down buildings and acts of violence, --
▶ 2:24:47Sen. Barrasso: Is that what she did? You are just blowing smoke here.
▶ 2:24:52Chair Risch: Senator --
▶ 2:24:54Sec. Rubio: That they do start trouble on our campuses, we will deny you a visa. And we will do more. We are more coming. We will continue to revoke the basis of people who are here disrupting our higher education facilities. People are paying money. These kids pay money to go to school.
▶ 2:25:12Sen. Barrasso: Disrupting the foreign policy of the united states. That is pathetic, Mr. secretary.
▶ 2:25:19Sec. Rubio: The other guy -- the other day some guys let a riot. I asked can you find the arrest records of any of them because that they have a rio vista -- have a visa, we will revoke them.
▶ 2:25:33Chair Risch: We have had enough time on the subject, thank you very much. Senator lee.
▶ 2:25:39Sen. Lee: It is good to have you back. It is good to see the natural habitat. It is also where you naturally belong. I don't have the same way. I have every confidence in your ability to serve us and very grateful for your service. One of the many things I have always liked about you and your vision for the western hemisphere.
▶ 2:26:09Sen. Lee: You share the understanding that many of us have which is we have been blessed as a country throughout our 250 year existence by the fact that we are protected by a big oceans are left, another big ocean to our right and friendly neighbors to our north and south. Those natural barriers are good for us and gave rise to the monroe doctrine. Things like that.
▶ 2:26:35Sen. Lee: I appreciate the fact that we now have a secretary of state who understands and appreciates the importance of the western hemisphere. I want to ask you where the reston businesses here -- where the western hemisphere fits with other regions of the globe. As I understand it, the america first opportunity fund is intended to support america's most enduring and critical partners.
▶ 2:27:03Sen. Lee: As you work to realize state department priorities, funding programs with our national interests, will the countries in our periphery, those in our hemisphere, our neighbors, be counted among our most critical partners?
▶ 2:27:19Sec. Rubio: Absolutely. The new prime minister of canada was here a couple weeks ago. We had a very productive engagement with the president. Their new foreign minister is on board. Was not able to join us a few days ago but I look forward to interacting with her. We have had some disagreements with canada with regard to the nature of trade between our countries. I think there is hope that we can work something out on the trade front although that is not something I am involved.
▶ 2:27:54Sec. Rubio: In negotiating we have mutual interests like national security and are shared obligations to the defense of the north american continent. They have been a strong partner and we look forward to building on that. One of the most encouraging things is that canada has not historically spent a lot of money. Less than 1% of their gdp on the military and they have made a pledge to get to 2% and has signed on to the nato plays to get the 5% over the next decade. That will strengthen our partnership in providing security to our in.
▶ 2:28:26Sec. Rubio: -- r hemisphere.
▶ 2:28:27Sen. Lee: I want to touch on the contributions to organizations. This multipurpose account has been used to facilitate U.S. payments over 40 international organizations. I think the current tally might be 40.
▶ 2:28:45Sen. Lee: As someone who has been skeptical of international organizations and the way we fund them, the way they have been used and the way they use our money, I very much welcome the proposed reduction in funding of international organizations with the budget request before us mentions only the u.n. In that context, not the dozens of other organizations we are also funding.
▶ 2:29:10Sen. Lee: As you keep up your efforts to review our participation in and funding of international organizations, can you offer us a glimpse into the universe of organizations as to which we might be terminating our funding this year?
▶ 2:29:24Sec. Rubio: I think there are some already let you know we have on some of the other programs that we are not happy with what they do. The assessment is simple. It is our participation furthering our national interests? We don't have to agree with everything the organization does. Sometimes there is benefit to being at the table, being able to influence the direction.
▶ 2:29:49Sec. Rubio: These are just forms news for andy murray can positioning that we are paying for -- used for anti-american positioning that we are paying for. You look at the human rights council of the united nations which has become a place for some of the worst human rights violators on the planet and we are finding it and giving it credibility. I think there are agencies like this. You asked about the western hemisphere. I am not saying it is what we will walk away from.
▶ 2:30:20Sec. Rubio: We have a catastrophe in our own hemisphere in haiti that we are seeking to come up with an alternative strategy because the one in place is not working. Hating is heading in a very bad direction quickly -- haiti is heading in a very bad direction quickly. How, get some other entity to fly a flag? I asked myself the organization of american states has not led a mission since 1965.
▶ 2:30:51Sec. Rubio: While do we have an organization of american states if it is unable to collectively response to a severe catastrophe in our own hemisphere? I am not threatening that we will pull out of the oas. We need to challenge our existing memberships to step up. You would think that one of the reasons why the oas exists is to do was a crisis like the one we have in haiti which is not like a crisis anywhere else. These are not ideological movements. This country is being taken over by criminal gangs.
▶ 2:31:20Sec. Rubio: Much of it has already been taken over by criminal gangs. Once want to say one more thing. We are grateful to the canyons. -- the kenyu -- the kenyans and the mission but that mission will not solve this problem.
▶ 2:31:38Sec. Rubio: That is one example that I want to see us lead on and that is to get these organizations which we contribute to quite a bit step forward and provide a mission where member you where member y countries deal wh the issue of haiti which is about to take a dramatic turn.
▶ 2:31:55Sen. Lee: That is a great point. I'm glad president trump has led an investor -- an ambassador to that organization. The biden administration used the development finance corporation as another vehicle for pursuing international climate alarmism with you was funding.
▶ 2:32:24Sen. Lee: The dfc committed $20 million for sustainable tilapia production in canada, $50 million for a car rental business or business oand wind power. What sorts of projects in which regions would you advise the U.S. to fund through the dfc?
▶ 2:32:54Sec. Rubio: The dfc is independent from the department of state. They have their own governing structure. I do not control it. A broader question is the point of this reorganization. It will be incumbent upon our regional bureaus and embassies under those bureaus to identify those opportunities and elevate those and say here is what we need to be funding on the basis of our interaction.
▶ 2:33:21Sec. Rubio: When you talk to leaders in the caribbean they will tell you the need is to build up the capacity of local law enforcement so they can take on these gangs. If they can control the gangs and the security, they can expand to economic development. It is difficult as long as it is insecure on the ground. The use of the things we want to preserve which is why we want to empower the regional bureaus to have a role to play in determining what we put our money towards.
▶ 2:33:48Sen. Lee: My times expired. Thank you.
▶ 2:33:51Chair Risch: Sen. rosen: thank you Mr. chairman. Secretary rubio, I will embrace my jewish mother instincts for a moment. As a mother and fellow human being, I am not even matt anymore about your complicit participation in the destruction of global leadership. I am simply disappointed.
▶ 2:34:22Chair Risch: I am wondering if you are proud of yourself in this moment because I have always found you to be a bipartisan pragmatic partner, a true believer that the U.S. is stronger when we lead with diplomacy and development. You have a strong record on this. But I do not recognize secretary rubio. A stalwart support of israel.
▶ 2:34:46Chair Risch: You have watched as the administration abandoned administration abandone israel o pursue business deals. You were once a critic of vladimir putin but you sat by as the president berated the leader of ukraine. Most of all, programs that you previously championed and made america less safe, less strong, less prosperous in doing so.
▶ 2:35:14Chair Risch: I know you know this and I cannot make this point any better than you did in 2019 when you said anybody who tells you that we can slash foreign aid and bring us to balance is lying to you.
▶ 2:35:31Chair Risch: I will move on to my questions and talk about women's issues because during your time as senator you were a champion of international women's issues and you helped introduce bills that would have codified the department of office of global women's issues and women's global development prosperity initiative. You supported several bills including the bipartisan women peace and security act during a confirmation hearing. You committed that you would support women's economic empowerment abroad.
▶ 2:36:00Chair Risch: At this year's international woman of courage award, you waxed poetically about the administration support for women abroad. Help me understand how to square your past. You are proposing the elimination of the office of global women's issues. You have terminated hundreds of programs that help women and girls. You provided no guidance to the department on whether they should continue to implement the women peace and security act. I'm still waiting to see your support for women's economic empowerment overseas.
▶ 2:36:31Chair Risch: How can you dismiss the concerns of women around the world to believe that the data shows that women's economic participation includes greater economic development worldwide and that women's participation peace negotiations guarantees longer outcomes and I have a few questions so I will respectfully ask for a yes or no. Don't you think that women's participation is important and allows for better outcomes?
▶ 2:36:54Sec. Rubio: This is not a game show. I will not answer that with a yes or no. That is an important question. We are not abandoning women's issues.
▶ 2:37:05Sen. Lee: You believe this should be eliminated?
▶ 2:37:08Sec. Rubio: One thing is to eliminate the office. Another is to eliminate the function. Everyone will have someone driving that issue right down to the embassy. It remains a priority. The same with the law you outlined. This will be executed at the regional level and the embassy level. The reason why it is because the challenges facing women in africa are different than the challenges facing women in central america.
▶ 2:37:33Sen. Lee: Do I have your commitment that you will support women around the world because without the women being able to be successful in their countries, I believe we cannot have peace, stability and our countries move forward.
▶ 2:37:45Sec. Rubio: It remains part of our agenda. The service will still be delivered but it will be delivered at the regional and embassy level, not to a standalone office in washington, D.C..
▶ 2:37:56Sen. Lee: When will we see the reports on this?
▶ 2:37:59Sec. Rubio: That is part of our the organization process. We made an initial presentation to the committee. We have received input through the comment period from our own building and members of congress on both sides. Now we will come back to you based on all that input on what we propose.
▶ 2:38:18Sen. Lee: . Have a timeline because I don't want to see women left behind around the world. I will turn to israel. If you can give us a timeline, that would be helpful. Maybe we will revisit it. Do you have a timeline?
▶ 2:38:34Sec. Rubio: We are engaged now. We will have a congressional notification in the next few weeks. Although that is being built on the comment period in which we have taken input from this committee as well as the house.
▶ 2:38:48Sen. Lee: The office of security coordinator in israel was established by president bush in 2005. It is widely respected including by the idf central command for facilitating security coordination between the palestinian authority and the israeli security forces which has been crucial in preventing terrorist attacks against israelis.
▶ 2:39:12Sen. Lee: However it is reported that you plan to eliminate osc which could lead to further destabilization in the west bank and threaten security. The U.S. continue playing a role in facilitating successful facility coordination between idf and palestinian security forces to safeguard lives and if so, do you believe the state department should continue to maintain the osc and support financially?
▶ 2:39:39Sec. Rubio: There are reports everyday about things that are not true. The only thing that has been discussed about whether it should be brought under the authority of the embassy.
▶ 2:39:49Sen. Lee: We will move further on this discussion. I will talk about vaccines abroad because the vaccine alliance, we are so proud of preventing nearly 19 million children's deaths since created by providing vaccines to 50 countries. Diseases they do not know borders. A small investment from the U.S. can save american lives by stopping outbreaks before they reach our shores.
▶ 2:40:19Sen. Lee: You were previously a champion of global vaccines, twice leading resolutions in support of continuing investment in these programs. Do you consider vaccines including for malaria and ebola to be lifesaving given the track record of saving lives? Will you commit to prioritizing continued U.S. support?
▶ 2:40:42Sec. Rubio: We have not canceled U.S. support for malaria or any of these other communicable diseases. There are individual programs canceled because they were not being delivered in the appropriate way. All of these functions will continue. The function will be happening under the department of the state as opposed to a standalone entity which we have very little oversight over in this committee even though we tried with the usaid. May I respond to one point you made because I'm curious.
▶ 2:41:11Sec. Rubio: We have not abandoned saudi normalization with israel. The saudi's are the ones who have expressed the inability to move forward as long as the conflict is happening in gaza. We would love to see normalization.
▶ 2:41:24Sen. Lee: When it comes to the saudi's and normalization, I would be happy to have you in my office or come to your office to talk about this. It was apparent on the last trip that the president was more interested in making business deals and trying to move forward with peace in the region. There is a lot going on and there is pressure. We did receive a list. I just want to say for the record that the program was terminated.
▶ 2:41:53Sen. Lee: If you can send something to show that it is turned back on, we would be glad to see that. I am over my time.
▶ 2:41:59Chair Risch: Senator scott.
▶ 2:42:03Sen. Scott: Secretary rubio, I'm proud to have voted for you. Liberty is a very proud of you. Miami-dade is now more republican. I'm sure they saw the success you have had. Can you talk about what you are trying to accomplish with the reorganization and how that will national security?
▶ 2:42:31Sec. Rubio: The goal is to put the state department at the center of foreign policy. It lost its role because of the inability to deliver quickly on whatever policymakers wanted to do and there were structure reasons for that.
▶ 2:42:52Sec. Rubio: We are in an area that requires now more than ever a foreign policy that is cohesive, where all the elements of national power including soft power, but also the hard work of diplomacy and understanding that sometimes when you are dealing with another nationstate, they will not behave the way you would want your country to behave but it is international interest to have a relationship with them and be able to influence the discrete decisions that they make on one topic or another.
▶ 2:43:22Sec. Rubio: All of this has to be coordinated and that was not happening. We have functional bureaus that were in charge of some human rights issue. Then we had an embassy. Often times when you travel abroad you will find that our embassy and the regional bureau and the functional bureau were at odds. The functional bureau was pushing one agenda. The embassy was pushing another. This idea that usaid got along well with the state department is false.
▶ 2:43:48Sec. Rubio: Embassy after embassy during my time in oversight you would hear complaints about how usaid was funding programs the state department had no insight into and in many ways contradicted what the state department was driving at the embassy level. What we are asking for now with this reorganization is to bring it under one roof so that we can conduct foreign policy at the regional and local level in a way that is cohesive and concise and can deliver results. It is also where you will get the best ideas from.
▶ 2:44:19Sec. Rubio: I've read cables from our missions around the world every single day. Some of the most important information that I get secretary of state is not from intelligence reports or news articles or briefings. It is from a cable that comes directly from that empathy that is identifying a problem or an opportunity that I may not hear about for months if it ever makes its way through the system.
▶ 2:44:41Sec. Rubio: We want to empower that because that is our front lines, the people on the ground every day dealing with the government, dealing with society and they are identifying problems months, if not years in advance of what maine state or others are identifying. The goal of reorganization is to shorten that timeframe because we cannot afford to move slowly. The world moves quickly.
▶ 2:45:05Sec. Rubio: This decision we made on syria, had we run that through a traditional process, it would have taken months of interagency this and that and all of the different boxes that have to be checked. Our ability to move quickly on a unique opportunity in a time effective matter will pay dividends for the national security of our country if it works out. We want to see more of that. That should be the goal of reorganization.
▶ 2:45:35Sec. Rubio: People think this is a cost-cutting exercise. You need to be savings. We just had our credit rating downgrade. That is the first thing they mentioned to me on sunday in rome, our credit rating was downgraded. We have a debt problem. That is not a state department issue but that is a problem. This is not just about cost savings. It is about providing a more efficient, faster moving, more effective state department as a tool of diplomacy.
▶ 2:46:04Sec. Rubio: The state department should be at the center of american foreign policy making. That is our goal to create one that can deliver on that.
▶ 2:46:10Sen. Lee: I want to thank you and president trump for your focus on latin america. One is the proper role of the organization?
▶ 2:46:20Sec. Rubio: You would think there would be a forum to deal with challenges in the region. No more right now -- none more pressing right now than it was happening in haiti. They are not interested in running the country. They just think, if there is no government, we can do whatever we want. That is a very unique challenge.
▶ 2:46:50Sec. Rubio: Our traditional peacekeeping mission is designed to keep ideological groups from finding each other -- fighting each other. That traditional approach is not going to solve this unique challenge. It is basically taken over by 25 to 30,000 individuals who are members of criminal gangs who want to control territory they can hijack trucks, steal or charge exorbitant fees for fuel to move across the country, kidnap people, trafficking
▶ 2:47:22Sec. Rubio: Humans, trafficking drugs across the border into the dominican republic. There are things we need to do. We have been working with the department of homeland security, the fbi and the atf on how we can cut the flow of guns leaving the miami river on containers and managing not just haiti but other places.
▶ 2:47:43Sec. Rubio: From the perspective of the oas, if there was ever a regional crisis that you would think an organization like this could step forward and provide a force or a group of countries working together to solve it, it would be the oas. We are prepared to play a leading role but we need by being in some other partners in the region who are just as affected by what is happening there. That is one example of what the oas should help on and others on the defense of democracy. The oas is a collection of democratic institutions.
▶ 2:48:14Sec. Rubio: In nicaragua, there is no democracy. Venezuela and cuba, there is no democracy.
▶ 2:48:19Sen. Scott: You are working to reform the foreign service officer recruitment?
▶ 2:48:24Sec. Rubio: Two things we are doing. We are not getting rid of the promotion board. We are simply suspended because we want the more people on the basis of how good they are. On occasion you will find that a more junior officer, they have only been there 10 years, it is really good and deserves a promotion. If you don't promote them, they will leave for foreign service. We want to widen the base of people.
▶ 2:48:55Sec. Rubio: One of the things you thought about his are there people in the middle of a career doing things in the private sector? There was a program to do that in the 1980's that was very successful. Maybe these people will give 15 or 20 years in that regard. We are looking to expand our talent pool but we are seeking assistance internally where we reward merit of your performance and not just seniority. Where you are in the pecking order based on how long you have been there. That does not mean you are not good.
▶ 2:49:27Sec. Rubio: But there are some people who have not been there as long who are just as good, if not, better. If not, we will lose them to the private sector.
▶ 2:49:34Sen. Scott: Thank you. You are doing a great job.
▶ 2:49:38Chair Risch: Senator booker.
▶ 2:49:42Sen. Booker: I agree with what you said about the foreign policy crisis and the downgrading where we could be pushing a bill that can add $2.7 trillion to our national is just outrageous. I would be grateful for a small group of republicans in the senate and the house who would call this out as plain as it is to do this now.
▶ 2:50:07Sen. Booker: It will shake america's economy, give tax breaks to the wealthiest and not help with the current economic crisis we are facing. That is something I don't want to talk about right now. I want to continue our conversation about sudan. I know you know as we have said passionately the gravity of the crisis over there. It is the greatest humanitarian crisis on the planet.
▶ 2:50:35Sen. Booker: There is ethnic cleansing going on, an act of genocide as described by our own government and others. People are fleeing right now. I know you are very aware of this. What I want to ask you about specifically is that not only did you acknowledge the genocide and it being backed by countries that we consider allies elsewhere in the world. We must draw a clear line on that. You specifically mentioned the uae.
▶ 2:51:06Sen. Booker: He said they are an important partner in the middle east but we must be clear they are supporting an entity that is carrying out genocide. I am wondering, have you been able to draw that clear line in conversations with the uae addressing the issue of the supplying of arms?
▶ 2:51:26Sec. Rubio: On this side with diplomacy, you always want to be careful of what you say publicly because people don't want to talk to you if they think it will happen in the future. We have expressed to other that they are turning it into a proxy war, that it is destabilizing the region and creating an environment not just in sudan but south sudan already faces challenges but some of that threatens to spillover.
▶ 2:51:58Sen. Booker: I think your answer is justifiable. The uae is a vital ally.
▶ 2:52:04Sec. Rubio: My point is it doesn't serve the interest of some of these countries involved to continue to pursue this route because instability there is going to create a nest for radicalism.
▶ 2:52:15Sen. Booker: We can have conversations privately but we are pressing hard on those people feeling the conflict. I want to ask the next part of this question. U.S. leadership is critical to end this. This is something that we can achieve, not only alleviating the suffering but an end to this.
▶ 2:52:39Sen. Booker: The humanitarian quarter was created and respected, this is something we can help to do, finding diplomatic resolution to the conflict is something we can do. There is a bipartisan commitment to appoint a special envoy for sudan. We know that that kind of leadership can help address this -- the worst crisis in the globe. Are you going to get a special envoy appointed as both sides of this I'll want to happen?
▶ 2:53:07Sec. Rubio: We would love to have someone in charge of that. We had a similar arrangement with drc and rwanda and we have seen that pay dividends.
▶ 2:53:17Sen. Booker: All I want is a sense of urgency and a yes.
▶ 2:53:21Sec. Rubio: We have to find the right person.
▶ 2:53:25Sen. Booker: 30 million people in sudan require humanitarian assistance. The freeze in humanitarian assistance is causing untold suffering. I was there myself in chad, last year and I saw the role we were playing and frankly I saw how great american companies here were doing good, helping to alleviate the crisis over there as well as helping american
▶ 2:53:55Sen. Booker: Businesses here. I am hoping that you can say that you will commit to resume and even surge united states humanitarian aid as soon human possible.
▶ 2:54:06Sec. Rubio: All of that has been approved. All of the lifesaving food and medicine programs have been turned on. To the extent there have been impediments is either on the payment system front where we faced a couple weeks we could not get money moving through treasury because of a variety of reasons including changes to technology but that has largely been resolved. The other is the ability to distribute it.
▶ 2:54:30Sen. Booker: You and I have been friends for a long time. A sense of urgency is what I'm asking for right now. Every day that we delay or don't plow through the line of defense, people are dying. I know you and I know we can do better. As you and I were taught back in the days, better is possible, good is not enough. I want to move to my next question.
▶ 2:54:58Sen. Booker: The refugee camps, I visited, I'm just hoping that we can make sure that we are doing more. A specific example of another area, despite the escalating humanitarian price -- crisis, the air service is vital, the termination of those flights makes it likely that all of chad's aid will stop and they
▶ 2:55:29Sen. Booker: Will have no resources by the end of july. It could take a week to reach chad's border from the capital via motorcade. This was a vital lifeline we were supporting. During the rainy season you cannot take that trip by road at all. Why was the award terminated for these flights? To me this is very plain. This is the lifeline. It was denied a waiver, which we reached out for.
▶ 2:55:59Sen. Booker: It is a very plain way we can save lives. I'm not sure if it is because it had u.n. In the title. Can we get a resumption in these flights that will save lives?
▶ 2:56:11Sec. Rubio: I think the answer is that while you are talking about a mode of transport versus the actual aid, the question is what percentage of responsibility should the united states bear? The broader issue is there comes a point where we have to understand that the united states, there are great causes all over the world. I'm not speaking specifically about the flight because iou a specific answer. I don't recall the denial.
▶ 2:56:44Sec. Rubio: Not every program we've ever funded is going to be funded in the future. We have to balance these things.
▶ 2:56:49Sen. Booker: I am aware. I just want an answer. This is like schindler's list, doing a little more saves lives and I know we are more capable than we are right now and I'm asking for that answer.
▶ 2:57:04Sec. Rubio: I will get you the answer on the flights.
▶ 2:57:07Sen. Booker: I'm happy to work with you on the special envoy. There are people on both sides willing to do that. I'm over time, but I do not want to lecture you, especially because I've had enough conversations that I know your moral core.
▶ 2:57:27Sen. Booker: What my colleague brought up very passionately about the afrikaners, I want you to know as a person who talks to leaders and countries like you do, all over africa, they are already seeing us not prioritizing ambassadors. They see embassies being closed.
▶ 2:57:43Sen. Booker: The torrent I got on the afrikaners reminded me of the torrent I got from african leaders when the president called those countries shithole countries. The anguish and the anger and the feeling of double standards.
▶ 2:58:02Sen. Booker: Just from a diplomatic range, where we are in a competition in many ways on that continent, you and I talked in your confirmation hearings about the profound moral urgencies, economic opportunity, security mandates, cooperations with these countries. We have got to do a better job, in my opinion. I have worked with you on these issues when you were a senator.
▶ 2:58:32Sen. Booker: Diplomatically, prioritizing these issues. I will partner with you in any way possible to make sure that we are addressing what I believe is a diplomatic shortfall right now in advancing american interests on the continent.
▶ 2:58:47Sec. Rubio: Real quick, we have not closed any embassies. I think people are responding to articles talking about the potential for embassy closures but we have not closed any embassies. We have been engaged. Africa to me is one of the priorities I set for us in terms of a global view because of the opportunities, the youth, the explosive growth we foresee and as an example, one of the things we prioritized was trying to reach a peace agreement between the drc and rwanda.
▶ 2:59:18Sec. Rubio: It's not done but we brought them both here to washington, D.C. about a month ago and they signed a memorandum of understanding. Negotiations are moving forward. They are moving forward well. Our hope is to arrive at a peace deal that ultimately ends a brutal conflict. I take your point on sudan and the need for a convoy -- the need for an envoy. We have played a supportive role . The u.k.
▶ 2:59:45Sec. Rubio: About a month and a half ago led a sedan summit in london where a lot of other countries -- we sent someone, we offered to be helpful and work with them but a lot of other countries either didn't make commitments or did not live up to the commitments and the summit was a minor disappointment because while everyone talks a big game around the world, they are not stepping up. I take your point and I will get your answer on the flights because I'm not aware of that specific waiver and on the envoy, we would love to find the right person.
▶ 3:00:13Sen. Booker: And the other things I will reach out to you about.
▶ 3:00:16Chair Risch: Senator cornyn.
▶ 3:00:18Sen. Cornyn: Thank you Mr. secretary. I'm proud of my vote to confirm you as secretary of state. We all know you well, having worked with you for many years. We know of the qualities you bring to this job and I think you are the right person for this job at a very dangerous and turbulent world. When you look at what you and the administration has done, is may 20.
▶ 3:00:48Sen. Cornyn: January 20, president trump sworn into office but just a few of the things that have happened during that time. The critical minerals deal in ukraine. The pakistani-indian conflict which could have resulted in nuclear conflict between two nuclear armed countries. Things closer to where I live, the mexican water deal that was negotiated with mexico.
▶ 3:01:15Sen. Cornyn: I am frankly amazed at your stamina and what you have been able to do in a short period of time. Listening to the criticism I've heard this morning, it reminded me of a quote from nfl quarterback aaron rodgers, talking about dealing with criticism. Things he wish he had known when he was younger.
▶ 3:01:39Sen. Cornyn: Never listen to criticism from somebody that never would have ticked -- that you never would have taken advice from in the first place. Let me ask you specifically about two issues. One has to do with ukraine and peace negotiations. I applaud you and the administration and president trump for initiating these negotiations between ukraine and russia and trying to bring a piece or at least a cease fire between these warring countries.
▶ 3:02:10Sen. Cornyn: This is enormously dangerous as you know, because it could easily spillover into the rest of europe, resulting in nato becoming involved and the like. I wonder what you believe Mr. putin's motivations are. Do you think he is engaging in these negotiations in good faith? That he intends to give something in order to get something, or not?
▶ 3:02:38Sec. Rubio: On the question of putin, that is still an open question. I think he approaches it, we have to assume, from a cold calculated cost benefit nationstate evaluation of what is in the best interest of his view of russia. This is not the war he thought he was getting. When he first invaded ukraine, I think he anticipated that the government would collapse and that he would be greeted as a liberator and it has not turned out that way.
▶ 3:03:10Sec. Rubio: Russia controls less territory today than they did after the first two months of the war so they have suffered significant losses. They suffer the losses of 250,000 men in uniform. The ukrainians have suffered less but suffered as well. It is a battlefield today in which the front lines move 10 kilometers at a time one direction or another. They are advancing at tremendously high cost. The challenge russia faces now is the entire economy is built around the war effort.
▶ 3:03:41Sec. Rubio: Munitions production. Around the fact that you have deployed around one million people to the front lines and they are making more money fighting a war than they would in the private sector. That's potentially a challenge in terms of bringing the war to an end. What we have tried to do is find anyway forward to end the conflict. We think it is deadly, costly and disruptive. We want to see it end.
▶ 3:04:05Sec. Rubio: We want to see it end because of the strains it is placing on the budgets of countries neighboring and the fears it is stirring up. We want to see the conflict end in a way that is enduring. Not a peace that lasts three months but something that both sides can live with for a long time without it restarting. That is hard. I wish this effort started two years ago but it is starting now. We've done the best we can because we are able to talk to both sides.
▶ 3:04:35Sec. Rubio: Obviously only one side is getting american aid and sanctions. Nonetheless we think it is important to preserve our ability to talk to both sides. The president is fully aware that he has options available to him in the sanctions field that he could pursue if he determines that putin is not interested in negotiating.
▶ 3:04:56Sec. Rubio: By the same token I think the president is committed to ending the bloodshed and destruction and he wants to preserve as long as he can, the opportunity to influence both sides towards peace. The minute you do certain things, your influence over one of the sides diminishes and then we are back to where we were in january when he went into the white house, where no one had a clear path forward.
▶ 3:05:22Sec. Rubio: The first time russians and ukrainians have met directly and spoken was three days ago in turkey. They had not spoken since the instable process in 2022 had failed. 1000 prisoners from both sides will be released. What we have not seen yet is a move toward peace. It is our understanding that the russians are going to write up terms for what they would require to reach a cease fire that would allow broader negotiations. We await those terms.
▶ 3:05:54Sec. Rubio: We will have a better understanding about Mr. putin's calculation once we see what those terms look like.
▶ 3:05:59Sen. Cornyn: So to quote you, the jury is still out.
▶ 3:06:02Sec. Rubio: These are complex conflicts. I do think that whatever offer russia puts on the table, given the fact -- they put an offer on the table and they say if this happens, we agree to a cease-fire in further negotiations, that will tell us a lot about their intent in the short-term.
▶ 3:06:24Sen. Cornyn: I applaud you and president trump's efforts to bring a cease fire and hopefully a peaceful outcome to this terrible bloodshed which has devastated both sides, the ukrainians and the russian people.
▶ 3:06:41Sen. Cornyn: Since you wear multiple hats, including as the archivist and secretary of state, one of those that you wear is national security advisor and I would like to talk about the indo pacific and the threat we face from a potential conflict there. I'm delighted to hear president trump repeatedly say he believes in peace through strength. I think that is the right approach.
▶ 3:07:12Sen. Cornyn: But I worry that the united states and our allies are not ready for what could be a conflict initiated by president xi as early as 2027 when he instructed the people's liberation army to be ready to take taiwan. General douglas macarthur said these words which haunt me in this connection. He said the history of failure in war is almost always to be summed up in two words. Too late.
▶ 3:07:43Sen. Cornyn: Too late in comprehending the deadly purpose of a potential enemy. Too late in realizing the mortal danger. Too late and preparedness. Too late in uniting all possible forces for resistance. I don't believe we are ready at this point, but can you share with us your view and the administration's view of what we need to establish that deterrence in the indo pacific?
▶ 3:08:09Sec. Rubio: We have to make the benefit of a taiwan event for china, we have to make the benefit of it less than the cost. In essence it has to cost more than it's worth to do something like that and determines is the key. Deterrence begins with taiwan's own save -- self-defense capabilities. The harder they are, to take militarily, the more time they buy for themselves. I think it continues by having incredible regional deterrent.
▶ 3:08:39Sec. Rubio: Not just the united states but japan and other allied countries around the world, and increased interest in the indo pacific from our european allies. I was at the nato foreign ministers gathering last week and multiple member states raised concerns about the indo pacific and what it would mean for the european continent if there was a conflict there. I think that underpins why it is important.
▶ 3:09:09Sec. Rubio: We have to understand that anytime there is a conflict in the middle east or europe or what have you, that we have to dedicate resources and time to that. But his time and resources we are not dedicating to the indo pacific. We would like to do all things everywhere but the fact is there are finite resources and only 24 hours in every day. It would be of great benefit if we were able to conclude the war in ukraine. If we were able to establish some stability and peace in the middle east.
▶ 3:09:36Sec. Rubio: If we were able to deal with these issues, it would allow us to focus more time, energy and resources on the challenges we face in the long term with regards to the indo pacific and other parts of the world.
▶ 3:09:48Chair Risch: Senator cruz.
▶ 3:09:51Sen. Cruz: Thank you Mr. chairman. Welcome back. When you are last testifying before this committee, you and I talked about water in south texas and the 1994 water treaty. As you know, south texas has for the last four years faced a severe drought and that drought has been substantially exacerbated by the conduct of the government of mexico, in particular its repeated violations of the 1944 water treaty.
▶ 3:10:22Sen. Cruz: Under that treaty, mexico is allocated to provide 350,000 acre-feet of water each year to south texas. Mexico was breaking that treaty and they are over 1.3 million acre-feet of water in arrears. Texas is facing a massive drought. South texas farmers are putting out production up to half their acreage. They are laying off workers. The only sugar mill in the state of texas closed because of sugar farmers could not get the water to grow their crops.
▶ 3:10:53Sen. Cruz: You committed at that hearing to work with me and assist in pressuring mexico to comply with that treaty. In the months since then, you have followed through on that commitment. You have leaned in vigorously with the government of mexico. Your deputy has done the same thing. The agricultural secretary has done the same thing.
▶ 3:11:17Sen. Cruz: Critically, president trump put out a public statement making clear to mexico that there would be serious consequences, sanctions and tariffs, if they did not comply with the water treaty. I will say as a result of the president's leadership and your hard work, we've had a major victory for south texas and mexico has committed to providing 400,000 acre-feet of water which is desperately needed. I want to start by saying thank you.
▶ 3:11:50Sen. Cruz: In four years under joe biden, the biden administration biden administration would not lift a finger for texans, for farmers in south texas, to hold mexico to account and the trump administration has done more in four months fighting for water in south texas. I wanted to say thank you and I wanted to ask how the state department is approaching next steps on the 1944 water treaty.
▶ 3:12:13Sec. Rubio: First we have to understand that the commitment is met and then we prepare for the next cycle. We want to continue to work on that, to make sure that those commitments are made and that this becomes made permanent, the new standard operating procedure and not a one-off and by the way it has to be something that exists beyond the presidency of the current president because if the next president does not prioritize it, it could go back.
▶ 3:12:43Sec. Rubio: Continuing engagement with them on our expectations. The truth of the matter is, the mexican government has grown increasingly cooperative on a number of fronts. Both national security, common security but also issues such as this. We are happy with the results of the new treatment plant that they have opened, the tijuana wastewater one. This is a good news story, it is what happens when you make something a priority and then follow through on it.
▶ 3:13:14Sec. Rubio: But we have to sustain it and that is our focus, to sustain this through future cycles.
▶ 3:13:20Sen. Cruz: Earlier this year I went down to the rio grande valley with secretary rollins and in december I wrote a provision in the continuing resolution that provided emergency relief to south texas farmers, 280 million dollars and secretary rollins came down.
▶ 3:13:42Sen. Cruz: The first act secretary to go to the rio grande valley, and secretary rollins and I did a roundtable and I will say you and I have both been very focused on the hispanic community. The impact of the rio grande valley, having a president and administration fighting for them is enormously consequential. I was very grateful that she came down. The farmers and ranchers in south texas see that they have a president adding for them. Let me shift to a different topic.
▶ 3:14:13Sen. Cruz: Today's south african president is in washington, D.C. he will be meeting with president trump tomorrow. You and the president as well as other officials have repeatedly criticized south african policies, on issues ranging from human rights to activities that directly undermine american national security. Those activities include what appears to be an explicit and extensive pivot away from the united states and towards the chinese communist party.
▶ 3:14:45Sen. Cruz: There were also serious and credible allegations that the south african government's decision-making is compromised by widespread corruption tied directly to iran. They are working together to target our is really allies on the international stage.
▶ 3:15:03Sen. Cruz: The south african president has taken an aggressive position leading a charge of genocide against israel in the international court of justice and he has pushed for precedents and policies that will not just undermine israel but expose american officials to vulnerabilities as well. I have every confidence that president trump will demand south african officials change their policies and will hold them accountable if they don't. It is critically important for the american people to understand the bases for these policies.
▶ 3:15:32Sen. Cruz: Please talk about the extent of south africa's maligned activities and how they are undermining american national security interests.
▶ 3:15:38Sec. Rubio: We chose not to participate in this year's g20 hosted by south africa. It had a lot to do with some of these issues in addition to some of the issues they brought on their agenda which we don't think reflect the priorities of this administration. The president of south africa is here today because he says the heat -- that he endeavors to reset relations between our countries and president trump is always going to be open to resetting relations but it will have to touch on the issues you just pointed to.
▶ 3:16:09Sec. Rubio: The position they've adopted toward israel, not just off-balance but completely geared toward one side and it makes one wonder about these allegations out there of foreign influence. Clearly on the global stage in multiple multinational organizations have consistently voted against america's interests. You always understand when a country has to go in one direction opposite to you because that happens. That's what diplomacy is about.
▶ 3:16:38Sec. Rubio: Diplomacy is also about when we are aligned, we work together and when we are not, we have to talk. But when a country is consistently unaligned with the united states on issue after issue, now you have to make conclusions about it. All I can say about the meeting today -- it might be going on as we speak -- is this was an outreach on the part of the south african president. He wanted to reset relations with the united states. I have no reports as to how that meeting has gone so far.
▶ 3:17:09Sec. Rubio: If there is willingness on their side to reset relations, obviously it is something we will explore but we will do so with our eyes wide open to what they have done so far.
▶ 3:17:18Sen. Cruz: How does their campaign against israel undermine america?
▶ 3:17:22Sec. Rubio: It echoes some of the charges being made by some of the biggest enemies of israel whether it is iran or these radical groups that chant death to america and death to israel. I also think there is real concern in our mind about some of these international institutions that frankly south africa has lined up behind, who would seek to if they could, jail, imprison, indict american officeholders because of some of the positions we have taken on
▶ 3:17:53Sec. Rubio: Public policy even though we are not members to the conventions that create these entities. If you talk about these groups that are in essence utilizing their forum on the national stage, for this leadership to echo the claims and positions taken by not just iran but china as well.
▶ 3:18:10Sec. Rubio: -- Sen. cruz: thank you.
▶ 3:18:13Chair Risch: Thank you. Marco, thank you. I can confidently say I speak for the majority of this committee when I tell you how proud we are with what you are doing. Your success as secretary of state and the other hats you wear, of which there are too many to reiterate here. I'm sorry there were intemperate remarks here. You know how that goes. Thank you.
▶ 3:18:44Chair Risch: There may be some questions for the record, which the members can submit until 5:00 tomorrow night. We hope your responses will be as quick as possible to any of those. With that again, thank you so much for appearing here. Thank you for your time. I have finally figured out how to stop the protests from happening here. They haven't happened except when you have been here.
▶ 3:19:14Chair Risch: Maybe there is a way -- some reference between the two. With that, the committee is adjourned.