▶ 0:16:49Chair Paul: The committee will come to order. I would like to welcome back secretary noem to the committee. The department of homeland security encompasses 16 components, from the transportation security administration to the federal emergency management agency. It has grown into an unwieldy bureaucracy rife with wasteful spending, characteristics common in large federal institutions.
▶ 0:17:12Chair Paul: Before your tenure, dhs had expanded using taxpayer dollars to surveilled american citizens and even fund high-risk virus research with little to no oversight. I commend you and the trump administration for ending all government censorship using dhs personnel.
▶ 0:17:34Chair Paul: Last night, I received the first records from the department regarding tulsi gabbard's placement on the quite skies watch list. These documents confirm our suspicions. Federal air marshals survey -- surveilled the now director of national intelligence during domestic flights in 2024. Reporting back information relayed to her appearance and even how many electronics she was observed using. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case.
▶ 0:18:06Chair Paul: Tsa is not the only dhs component running secretive programs behind closed doors. Most americans would be shocked to know that dhs funds classified and unclassified biological research here on U.S. soil. Under your leadership because they depart and has begun producing subpoena records revealing deeply concerning experiments with biological agents.
▶ 0:18:33Chair Paul: In one case, researchers proposed combining elements of two weekend anthrax strains to reengineer a version capable of causing disease again. These are experiments that we cannot countenance. You heard that right. Dhs was using taxpayer dollars to try to re-create a fully regular anthrax -- very you lent -- virulent anthrax strain.
▶ 0:19:00Chair Paul: At the national countermeasure, scientists have conducted repeated experiments, era lysing some of the deadliest -- aeroly sing some of the deadliest plagues. We have document indicating these experiments have continued during the biden administration.
▶ 0:19:27Chair Paul: The lab sits adjacent nih's integrated research facility. The same facility where recently secretary kennedy halted research following a disturbing instance in which a research intentionally -- a researcher/another's safety suit while handling ebola. Afterwards, dhs personnel were reportedly seen pad locking freezers inside the lab.
▶ 0:19:57Chair Paul: So naturally I want to know, what exactly is the relationship between dhs and nih? What overlap exists between their work? It should not take a personal altercation and a compromised biosafety suit to initiate oversight, but here we are. Why is the department of homeland security, an agency meant to defend the homeland, conducting experiments with pathogens capable of killing millions in the first place?
▶ 0:20:27Chair Paul: These are questions and the taxpayers deserve answers. Some may say it is about preparedness, but when does preparedness cross the line into recklessness? At what point does an attempt to prevent catastrophe actually increase the likelihood of one?
▶ 0:20:49Chair Paul: This is only the tip of the iceberg of the reckless research being funded by the department of homeland security, some conducted on behalf of other federal agencies under the work for others program, obscuring the ability of congress and the public to follow the money. This is not just a domestic safety concern. It is a diplomatic one.
▶ 0:21:10Chair Paul: Dhs conducts internal compliance assessments to evaluate other maggots projects could violate or appear to violate the biological weapons convention. If dhs is engaging in high-risk virus research that could lead to a catastrophic leak or be perceived as the U.S. violating the biological weapons convention, the department is not securing the homeland. It is endangering it.
▶ 0:21:35Chair Paul: That is why congress must pass my bipartisan risky research review act to establish independent oversight of federally funded research and other potentially dangerous studies. We do not even have a universally accepted definition allowing researchers to pick and choose the standards that suit them. That is not real oversight.
▶ 0:21:57Chair Paul: Secretary noem, I appreciate your commitment to reversing the obstruction of your predecessor and pushing back on efforts by bureaucrats in the department to delay, redact, and resist oversight. You have inherited a difficult task, or storing accountability to a department that has strayed through its founding mission. This is a pivotal moment.
▶ 0:22:19Chair Paul: I look forward to continuing to work with you to bring about long-overdue transparency to the american people. I recognize the ranking member.
▶ 0:22:28Sen. Peters: Thank you for joining us today. The departmental phone on security is responsible for a number of critical missions that safeguard our nation, from preventing terrorism to cyber attacks to securing our northern and southern borders and responding to natural disasters.
▶ 0:22:50Sen. Peters: I am disappointed -- a disappointing departure from prior administrations, including president trump's first administration, we are holding the hearing to discuss the different budget needs without having received a detailed budget request from the president or a briefing from the department's components about their budget needs. We have seen in just a few short months under the trump administration how the department has undergone tremendous changes.
▶ 0:23:19Sen. Peters: I have serious concerns that some of these changes are harming got rather than helping, the department in his mission to protect the safety and security of americans. For example, as we heard -- as we head into hurricane season and wildfire season, the administration has halted critical fema programs that support flood mitigation and slashed staff who focus on disaster relief.
▶ 0:23:45Sen. Peters: These are critical resources for states in the aftermath of a natural disaster and the administration has provided little or no justification for these changes. Fema has internally acknowledged it is not ready for hurricane season, which starts in 11 days.
▶ 0:24:04Sen. Peters: Despite that, the administration is planning on shifting the burden for disaster response to state and local governments, which will put americans at grave risk the next time disaster strikes, which is inevitable. At a time when we are facing increasing threats from cyber attacks, the administration plans to drastically cut our primary cybersecurity agency.
▶ 0:24:29Sen. Peters: It is supposed to be finalizing a rule required by law that this and many past to improve -- that this committee passed to better protect critical infrastructure from cyber attacks, yet reporting indicates that 700 cisa employees have taken deferred resignation under pressure from this administration. Since this work on election security has stopped and the agency advisory committees have been shuttered.
▶ 0:24:58Sen. Peters: These actions make us less prepared to address cybersecurity attacks. The administration proposes cutting 247 million dollars from the tsa budget to reduce the number of front-line tsa agents. At a time when air travel is at an all-time high and we are entering the busy summer travel season, these cuts threaten to make our skies and travelers less secure.
▶ 0:25:25Sen. Peters: The ministration has cut congressionally mandated oversight offices that protect civil rights and civil liberties of individuals who interact with dhs components. These offices were put in place to ensure that dhs personnel can conduct important national security missions effectively. While safeguarding the rights of the people in this country.
▶ 0:25:48Sen. Peters: Shutting these offices down puts americans at risk and is a violation of the homeland security act itself. Despite inquiries for more information, I have yet to receive sufficient explanation for these actions. I have concerns about the ministration's -- administration's inappropriate use of the U.S. military and the outrageous use of taxpayer dollars for detention at quintana mowbray.
▶ 0:26:19Sen. Peters: Certainly anyone concerned about prudent use of taxpayer money should be outraged by what is happening down there. Our nation faces a multude of home unsecured he challenges and this committee has always been willing to work to address them on a bipartisan basis. When we first met prior to your confirmation, you gave me a commitment that you would work with me to address the many threats facing our nation.
▶ 0:26:41Sen. Peters: I hope the hearing will be an honest discussion about the resources the department needs to do that and I welcome having that kind of discussion. I would hope we would be able to have the discussion in a way we have done, in a bipartisan way, where a first round will be seven minutes and a second round would be five minutes. Certainly, chairman paul, I hope you would consider precedent. When senator johnson was chair of the committee, he made sure everybody had seven minutes.
▶ 0:27:13Sen. Peters: Homeland security is a primary concern for all of us and I am not sure why the chair is insisting on five minutes. I know you are fully capable of answering for seven minutes and should not be concerned about it, but apparently the chairman is concerned about the extra time so I hope we can get seven minutes from the first round rather than five, as we always have.
▶ 0:27:39Chair Paul: It is the practice of the committee to square witnesses -- swear in witnesses. Secretary noem, do you swear the testimony you will give before the committee will be the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god?
▶ 0:28:10Chair Paul: Secretary noem, thank you for appearing today. I have been concerned for a long time about gain of function research. I commend the end ministration for stopping it. Some of the problems are in the finish in. Anthony fauci said if it is a virus it cannot be gain of function. Yet animal viruses can be trained to infect humans. We think that is what happened ultimately with covid-19.
▶ 0:28:38Chair Paul: We think some of the dangerous research is going on at the lab controlled by dhs. Have you begun to look into this ? Secretary kennedy said that you and he will go out and requested permission to attend that as you go out to look at these labs. Have you looked at these labs yet to get a feeling for gain-of-function?
▶ 0:28:56Sen. Peters: Are we going to have open, from the secretary?
▶ 0:29:00Chair Paul: I neglected that. Let's start with that. -- let's start again. Secretary noem, your recognize for your remarks.
▶ 0:29:10Sec. Noem: Thank you for the honor of allowing me to be here today. Thank you to all the senators for your participation and oversight into the department foam on security. I am looking forward to visiting with you about all the accomplishments we have been able to tackle these first several months of this trump administration. I am blessed to have my husband with me today, so I thank him for his support as well as I fill this role for our country.
▶ 0:29:37Sec. Noem: Having previously served eight years as a member of congress, it is my distinct honor to be on the side of the dais today as secretary of the department of homeland security. I'm proud to discuss our compliments since president trump took office. He has set us a full agenda as a priority. High on the list is the mandate -- it was the mandate on the first day, to secure our southern border and start deporting illegal criminal aliens. The border crisis is the biggest problem that was facing our country.
▶ 0:30:06Sec. Noem: And it was one that was imperative to fixing for our nation's future. We are solving this crisis at a record pace and have delivered the most secure border in american history. We have obtained near-complete operational control of the border with daily encounters down 93% since president trump took office. Because we are fixing this biggest challenge so quickly, president trump can focus on other priorities and problems facing the american people.
▶ 0:30:35Sec. Noem: Last week, he signed a historic prescription drug reduction in pricing executive order that will slash prices for the american people. After that, he went on a trip to rewrite america's relationship with the middle east. He secured trillions of dollars of new investments in the united states, with several middle eastern countries. He is taking steps toward rebuilding a relationship with syria.
▶ 0:31:00Sec. Noem: The last living american hostage held by hamas was finally released and returned home to his family. He announced new trade deals with china and the united kingdom and yesterday he jumpstarted cease-fire talks between russia and ukraine. With only the kind of leadership that president trump could provide, we prevented the breakout of all out war between india and pakistan.
▶ 0:31:23Sec. Noem: These historical compliments or possible because president trump confronted right away the chaos of the southern border. President trump can continue to not only make america safe but also continue to work to make the entire world safer. At the department of homeland security under president trump, we have delivered a drastic turnaround in homeland security, from the southern border to our coast guard to cyberspace. And we are just getting started.
▶ 0:31:51Sec. Noem: The secure border has allowed our men and women of law enforcement to zero in on fighting cartels and their illicit activities. Under president trump, we have designated six cartels and four dangerous criminal gangs as foreign terrorist organizations. This allowed us to take a whole of government approach to going after these murderers and drug traffickers. In march, fentanyl traffic at the border fell 54% compared to the previous year.
▶ 0:32:19Sec. Noem: The united states is enforcing immigration laws to arrest to entertain, and remove dangerous illegal alien criminals. We are prioritizing those that are a public safety threat to people, especially those affiliated with the terrorist organizations and 13. Customs and border protection has worked to enforce the america first trade agenda and trade policies that hollowed out america's industrial base have been changed.
▶ 0:32:47Sec. Noem: We are no longer shipping our jobs overseas. We are using tariffs as an effective negotiating tool. The department of homeland security is reforming emergency management in this country. We have the fema review council, which will make recommendations and work with this body to change the department into something that gives more local and state control. That first council meeting is today.
▶ 0:33:12Sec. Noem: We are taking steps to defend the nation's transportation systems. The transportation security administration's response will for ensuring all of the safety of individuals who travel. In a single day, there are 45,000 flights and nearly 2.9 million americans and passengers in the united states. We are fulfilling our obligation to implement real id, which was enacted over 20 years ago.
▶ 0:33:42Sec. Noem: Validated ids secure travel, safeguard elections, and make sure we never experience another tragedy like 9/11. As technology advances, so do the threats to our nation. That is why cybersecurity is so crucial to our future. Countries like communist china have the capability and intent to infiltrate and potentially disrupt our infrastructure systems.
▶ 0:34:06Sec. Noem: Despite these threats, the biden administration instead used cisa to promote politics and police speech. Under president trump, we happen working to get cisa back on its intended cybersecurity mission. The coast guard is the only branch of the U.S. armed forces under the umbrella of the department of homeland security. It has many missions with specialized needs. As we secure the southern border, cartels have shifted activities into our maritime borders.
▶ 0:34:33Sec. Noem: The coast guard has surpassed fiscal year 2024's drug interdiction numbers since president trump took office and they have excelled at search-and-rescue while interdiction of illicit substances as well. The coast guard is facing our greatest readiness crisis since world war ii. We have a plan to reinvigorate this critical component come up to make sure they are ready for the future.
▶ 0:35:00Sec. Noem: We will transform the coast guard into a more agile and capable and responsive force. We are making sure they have the resources and vision to lead and be the point of the spear in the future. Since I took office, one of the responsibilities I have is in reforming the secret service. We have reassessed the secret service's needs. We have gotten recruitment away from d.e.I.
▶ 0:35:24Sec. Noem: Recruitment and we are making sure they are equipped and ready to take on the task of protecting our future leaders and the leaders of today. I want to thank you and this committee for your time today and allowing me to get the facts out into this important issues and topics that we will be discussing today and to visit with this committee. I'm grateful to the men and women of the department of homeland security for the good work they're doing to serve the american public. There examples of bravery, patriotism, and dedication.
▶ 0:35:55Sec. Noem: It is our responsibility to continue providing the resources they need to do the work they do. With that, I look forward to answering your questions and I yield back.
▶ 0:36:04Chair Paul: Great. You got a preview of my questions. The national bio defense analysis and countermeasure center -- we are concerned they are still doing dangerous research and need more oversight. Do you have research on that?
▶ 0:36:27Sec. Noem: I wanted to thank the chairman of bringing history of this lab and the work it was doing. We have a planned visit in the future and the next 10 days to two weeks with secretary kennedy to look into the work that this lab is doing and if he is appropriate for the department of homeland security to be engaged in that.
▶ 0:36:52Sec. Noem: Your concerns have created some oversight that is helpful and it will be helpful in making sure they are doing correct research that is actually beneficial and not research that has been abused in the past.
▶ 0:37:03Chair Paul: The president has banned gain-of-function. It is important that someone can civilly come forward who disagrees and says this does not meet the definition of gain-of-function. That is what anthony fauci did when everybody said research in wuhan was gain of function. They were running it through an animal model and adapting it to be infectious in humans. That is gain of function, so the people and personnel make a difference.
▶ 0:37:32Chair Paul: As you asked the career people out there who have been doing the experiments and realize their natural tendency is to want to keep doing what they have been doing, I think it is when to take scrutiny, new people, new scientists to look at each of these and say, do not just tell me you are not doing it. Give me a list of 20 or 30 experiments. As an example, we have been sending records request for three years and got nothing until you came into office. I hope you will be looking at our records requests.
▶ 0:38:02Chair Paul: They are all dated. Some of them by republicans, some by republicans and democrats. They were routinely ignored. Have you had a chance to look at the chain of questioning to see if there's anybody that was purposely obstructing us?
▶ 0:38:16Sec. Noem: I thank you for asking those questions and talking about the follow-up to members of congress, senators and representatives. My predecessor did not respond to anybody, republican or democrat. He did not respond to your letters and oversight. I have tasked all of my people with changing that about our department of homeland security, that we will be responsive to congress.
▶ 0:38:38Sec. Noem: We have given you about 50,000 pages so far of information here and we continue to get and gather more data that we can return to you so you can conduct oversight. Between nih and the department of performance security, there are no research projects on going out today that we have been able to find as far as projects we were doing together.
▶ 0:38:59Sec. Noem: We did have a couple employees that were contracted for their specialty backgrounds that have done work at nih before, but that kind of oversight needs to happen and I think it is important we have an independent outside source also reviewing the work they do.
▶ 0:39:14Chair Paul: As you're collecting the records, I ask that you ask the people, why was it not given before? See if you can find where the chain of command ended with people purposely not giving us records because they should not be employed by the government. Secretary mayorkas told us there was no censorship going on, that cisa were not involved with speech. We know they were.
▶ 0:39:41Chair Paul: Have you uncovered internal communications or activities that contradict their testimony with regard to the government being involved in censorship?
▶ 0:39:46Sec. Noem: We have literally found thousands of documents that have proven that they were involved in censorship and policing speech, so we will be unveiling these to this committee and making sure we are exposing what cisa was doing with a vast majority of its time of certain employees and some of the discussion we will have here today is about getting cisa back on mission and some of the reductions in staff that have been over there that is reflective of the fact that many of them were doing work they should not have been doing.
▶ 0:40:17Chair Paul: I hope you will look at our bill on the risky research review act. The administration is doing a lot of good things and then the next administration goes in. This would be a presidential commission of scientists to define on a continual basis what is or is not gain of function, to rule on that. It was a unanimous vote out of this committee.
▶ 0:40:39Chair Paul: It is one of the few things on congress that we have bipartisan support for so we hope the administration will consider making an endorsement of that so we can make permanent the things you are trying to do to constrain gain-of-function. With that, I recognize senator peters.
▶ 0:41:00Sen. Peters: Thank you for being here again. Before the committee today. I appreciated the time we spent yesterday on the phone discussing a variety of issues. I look forward to those kinds of discussions continuing in the future. As you know, the protections for sharing information under the cybersecurity information sharing act of 2015 confusingly referred to as cisa 2015 deals with the information sharing expires at the end of september.
▶ 0:41:30Sen. Peters: This is a critical authority that applies information sharing across the federal government, not only to the agency but also allows the agency the ability to have robust and timely cyber threat information shared between public and private sectors, as well as among private sector companies, so folks have understanding of the threat landscape that is out there and have full awareness of what is coming out of the various actors.
▶ 0:41:57Sen. Peters: Does the administration support the extension of this important authority that I have been hearing about from a number of stakeholders, that they are concerned it is going to expire? Does the administration support the extension?
▶ 0:42:09Sec. Noem: We do. It is an important piece of legislation. Does endorse it for 10 more years, which I think is a long enough time frame for us to make sure we have this ability we need in this area to create this kind of partnerships you're talking about with private industry. We need their expertise and knowledge and interaction with those across the world that he the united states of america to come in and cooperate with us to make sure we are prepared to secure our systems and critical and restructure.
▶ 0:42:36Sen. Peters: I look forward to the ministration's -- administration's support. I'm also concerned about the increasing number of security threats that we are seeing from drone incursions to public spaces, airports, critical infrastructure across our country, as we spoke about yesterday morning. A man in michigan was arrested after he allegedly tried to attack the U.S.
▶ 0:43:04Sen. Peters: Army's command facility at the detroit arsenal. According to prosecutors, the man flew a drone over the facility to conduct operational reconnaissance, highlighting the need to ensure that law enforcement is properly resourced to deal with this threat.
▶ 0:43:24Sen. Peters: While I understand there are safety concerns with the technology that need to be addressed by the faa, I would like for us to work together to reauthorize dhs and doj's counter drone authorities that expire at the end of september. This threat is not going away. Last congress, senator johnson and I introduced a bill that I think is a good starting point.
▶ 0:43:54Sen. Peters: Can I get your commitments that we can work together to not only reauthorize these authorities on a long-term basis but actually strengthen those authorities to make sure we deal with this persistent threat?
▶ 0:44:05Sec. Noem: I will take a look at your legislation specifically, but we do need to reauthorize the authorities we do have to address not just our homeland security day-to-day activities, but we are hosting some in this country that will I think challenge our ability to secure that many large events at one time, so having those kind of authorities and addressing what we can do to cooperate with state and local governments and cities in locations where big events happen would be important to do that, so the expansion of
▶ 0:44:38Sec. Noem: Those authorities needs to be looked at, to make sure it is appropriate but also gives us the tools we need to keep people safe. We have the world cup next summer, which will be 10 million ticketed people, 22 million people that will be involved in the activities surrounding it. The olympics coming. It is important we address this now.
▶ 0:45:00Sen. Peters: I appreciate that. Our biggest supporter for our bill is the national football league, who have concerns about their games. We have already had games interrupted and it could be more serious at some point. Two weeks ago during a senate appropriations hearing, you told me clearly to questions I had that cisa was back on mission.
▶ 0:45:25Sen. Peters: If this is accurate, why is the administration proposing to cut $500 million from an agency's budget for an agency that is on mission now? Those activities he previously described as off mission, specifically election security work, cost about $20 million. Those folks have been let go and are no longer there.
▶ 0:45:49Sen. Peters: But this is a cut of $500 million, so what specific activities or departments does the department plan to cut as a result of these large proposed cuts? Please give some specific examples of offices and programs . As you know, the statutory requirements are extensive. You have a lot on your plate. You have a lot to cover.
▶ 0:46:18Sen. Peters: You need resources to do that, but this is a significant cutting and we need to know what protection will not be offered after the cuts go into effect. >> we will continue to fulfill all statutory requirements at the department of homeland security and the work it does.
▶ 0:46:36Sen. Peters: Putting it back on mission means that it fulfills the responsibility of white was created, to be the cybersecurity agency of the nation, to go out and secure our infrastructure and work with small and medium-size businesses and states and localities to give them the insight and wisdom they need to make sure they are not vulnerable to hackers or nefarious activity. Getting rid of censorship. Getting rid of the ministry of truth at cisa.
▶ 0:47:04Sen. Peters: The employees that were duplicative, fulfilling roles not related to cybersecurity was something we addressed. Under the president's budget, cybersecurity strengthen and we are doubling down on the need to build private and partner with those individual industries that have expertise and knowledge we have lacked for so long.
▶ 0:47:25Sen. Peters: They are looking for more abilities to do new things for this country as far as giving us insight into nefarious activities, but they do ask that we give them some level of protection from liabilities. I think you are familiar with some of their concerns. I want to work with you to see what we can do to address those needs so we can have the information we need to truly secure the country.
▶ 0:47:48Sen. Peters: One of the biggest alarming things I visited with you about was we still do not necessarily know how to stop the next typhoon and private industry can help us with that with their knowledge. They see things we do not. That partnership can be strong and make sure we are not just spending more dollars with no means to an end, that we actually have an end that ends with a more secure united states of america.
▶ 0:48:13Sen. Peters: I look forward to working with you.
▶ 0:48:18Sen. Johnson: The ranking member did get seven minutes.
▶ 0:48:22Sec. Noem: Sorry.
▶ 0:48:25Sen. Johnson: Thanks for your service. You have probably seen this chart. For the first time, I brought this chart and it is showing good news. For the previous four years, it described a clear and present danger to this country.
▶ 0:48:46Sen. Johnson: One reason I wanted pointed out is to point out how we were lied to during the four year period by the ministration, saying we had to have congress act, we needed legislation. The fact is we just need a new president. We need president trump. I would have been happy to pass a bill to reinforce president biden's authority to secure the border, but he did not want to.
▶ 0:49:13Sen. Johnson: What is clear about this chart as you can see when president biden was considering reelection he realized the catastrophe at hand was becoming unpopular. He used the authority president trump used to secure the border in his first term and started making progress on that.
▶ 0:49:31Sen. Johnson: So it is important that the american people understand that for four years the biden administration, reinforced by folks on the other side of the aisle, lied that president biden did not have the authority to secure the border. He wanted an open border. That is what he got. The question I have, on his first term, president trump -- from his peak of almost 5000 per day to a little over 500.
▶ 0:50:01Sen. Johnson: Remain in mexico, the agreements he had come of that type of thing. How can he do so so swiftly this time? This is a matter of months, 418 encounters per day on average. This is stunning success. I want your reaction in terms of how you accomplish this.
▶ 0:50:23Sec. Noem: I would say the president used not only the laws that were already on the books and started enforcing them, he also made sure he talked about it and messaged it. Through the campaign, he talked about the need for a secure border.
▶ 0:50:38Sec. Noem: We need to remember the world listens to everything we say and what our leaders say and he told me when he nominated me for this position, I do not want you to run the department of homeland security and make sure our agencies are back on mission. I way to tell the world what we are doing because the only way they are going to keep -- stop coming to the country as if they know never to leave their home country.
▶ 0:51:05Sec. Noem: That is what is happening because of our messaging and we have actively talked in guatemala and honduras and mexico about do not come to the united states anymore illegally. There will be consequences. They have stayed there. We are showing now that it is reverse migration, that people that got to mexico never made it to the border and now they are turning around and going back home.
▶ 0:51:32Sec. Noem: When I was in mexico visiting with the president and government leaders, she said specifically they think there could be 500 to 600,000 people that just stopped in mexico and turned around and were never encountered that reached our border.
▶ 0:51:45Sec. Noem: That is why in march you saw less than 200 counters a day and it was a historic low for this country in encounters because not only did he enforce the laws and show there would be consequences if you broke our laws, he also made sure we talk to the american people about why we were doing it and it was for our safety and future and to these other countries that it was no longer going to be the status quo of joe biden.
▶ 0:52:17Sen. Johnson: This is a budget hearing. I want to ask, in the first trump administration, I had best information -- we built 450 miles of walls across $6.6 billion, about $14 million per mile. Or budgetary request is for $46.5 billion. A lot more. That would build something -- more than 3000 miles. Can you square that circle?
▶ 0:52:53Sen. Johnson: Circle that square? Can you explain what you are asking for? Why is the request so high when we were able to build so many miles in the first term for last?
▶ 0:53:03Sec. Noem: The asmus are that the wall will be over $12 million a mile. We have built about 70 miles of wall since the president has been in place, but that has been a mixture of permanent steel versus temporary versus a barrier where it is appropriate.
▶ 0:53:25Sen. Johnson: That will be more than 3000 miles.
▶ 0:53:30Sec. Noem: The problem we have at the border is we have cameras and towers that do not work we have authorities with the faa on infrastructure -- that is not even operational. One of three are function today, and we talk about got a ways.
▶ 0:53:58Sec. Noem: There are portions of the order that we do not know what happens 24/7.
▶ 0:54:03Sen. Johnson: We are $37 trillion in debt. I am going to ask your department to sharpen the pencil on the wall request. It is more than you need. I'm happy to surprise -- provide the support you need to secure the border.
▶ 0:54:29Sen. Johnson: Secretary noem, the white house deputy chief of staff said that the trump administration is looking at suspending habeas corpus. I want to clarify your position because it is important to get this right. What is habeas corpus?
▶ 0:54:46Sec. Noem: Habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country and suspend the rights --
▶ 0:54:58Sen. Hassan: That is incorrect. Excuse me. Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that protection, the government could arrest people, including american citizens come and hold them indefinitely for no reason. It is the foundational right that separates free societies like america from police states like north korea.
▶ 0:55:29Sen. Hassan: As a senator from the live free or die state, this matters to me and my constituents and to all americans. Do you support the core protection that habeas corpus provides?
▶ 0:55:45Sec. Noem: I support habeas corpus and recognize the president of the united states has the authority to decide if it should be suspended or not.
▶ 0:55:56Sen. Hassan: It has never been done without approval of congress. I have been asking executive branch nominees a simple question over the past few months. If the president orders them to break a law, will you follow the law or the order? I want to ask you a more specific question here.
▶ 0:56:18Sen. Hassan: If the president tries to suspend habeas corpus and a federal court reverses the president's order, will you comply with the court order and uphold habeas corpus or follow the president's directive?
▶ 0:56:32Sec. Noem: We are following all federal court orders.
▶ 0:56:37Sen. Hassan: That is not true for anyone who reads the news. There are federal court orders right now, including returning somebody who was deported mistakenly. But to be clear this is about a fundamental legal right that ensures we live in a free society instead of a police state, that would have a sham legal system like russia or korea -- north korea. I am glad you have committed to following court orders.
▶ 0:57:07Sen. Hassan: I'm glad you believe in the a sick freedom for americans, if ordered to do so by a court. And I want to make sure that clear it is critically important that even if the president tries to suspend the right to people to know why they have been detained or imprisoned, if a federal court reverses that order, that you will follow that order and I hope all members of the administration will because it is obviously critical that
▶ 0:57:38Sen. Hassan: Some of the people who have been deported by mistake and did not get due process be returned in compliance with court orders. So let's move onto another issue. International criminal organizations target americans with sophisticated cyber crime, including scams rob americans a billions of dollars, with seniors in the united states losing $5 billion to scammers in 2024 alone.
▶ 0:58:12Sen. Hassan: With this new technology, criminals can impersonate loved ones, develop malware, or make more convincing phishing messages. How is dhs working to identify trends in illegal activity and ensure that new ai systems have safeguards in place to prevent their use in criminal activity?
▶ 0:58:29Sec. Noem: We are working extensively through cisa and all our agencies to make sure we are going after criminal various actors. Partnering with private industry is important so we have the insight we need to understand the tactics they use and advancements in software.
▶ 0:58:49Sec. Noem: The ai ability that they have to adjust and supersede some of our systems is incredible, so investing in those symptoms just systems is important but also having the knowledge of bringing everybody to the table and breaking down silos between agencies is important so we all have the information we need.
▶ 0:59:11Sen. Hassan: Senator peters began to ask about it. There has been recent reporting that indicates the chinese government installed remote access to chinese made power inverters in the U.S., raising concerns that the chinese government could disable parts of our power grid.
▶ 0:59:30Sen. Hassan: You made a comment about the importance of not only working with private industry on this issue but also on working with state and local governments on cybersecurity. Can you talk to me about how dhs is partnering with state and local governments?
▶ 0:59:51Sec. Noem: That is one of the core critical missions of cisa. We are vulnerable by our weakest link, so when you have a small state that does not have the resources it needs to invest in security operations, then they are vulnerable to attacks and hacking attempts and they can access our systems if they have a contract or system that and for -- interfaces with a federal system. It makes us vulnerable as well.
▶ 1:00:21Sec. Noem: We are responsible for critical and for structures and making sure china cannot come in and shut down our electrical grid, water systems, things people rely on for their day-to-day lives. It is important, so that is why we need these partnerships, to make sure we are secure down to our smallest actor that participates.
▶ 1:00:42Chair Paul: Senator lankford.
▶ 1:00:46Sen. Lankford: Thanks for your leadership in the work you have already done. There is a lot still to do. And I am grateful for four years, every hearing we have ever had with any dhs official was dominated by border closing and excuses why they could not.
▶ 1:01:07Sen. Lankford: It is kinda fun for me to be able to sit here and hear conversations about fema and coast guard and the other aspects of dhs out there, secret service. We had time to talk about that all we had time to talk about was the border the previous time. I had my team pull together just the march numbers for the last four years of border crossings and what happened? If we go back to march of 2022, 222,000.
▶ 1:01:40Sen. Lankford: 2024, 189,000. Then this last march, 11,000. To be able to see the dramatic difference that has happened in a short period of time and the enforcer that has actually happened has given a deep breath to the nation. It has given an opportunity for folks at the border to catch up.
▶ 1:02:03Sen. Lankford: I was at san diego a couple weeks ago meeting with folks in san diego and their enforcement around the tijuana border and be able to see what is happening. The morale is dramatically different. From the times I have been there in the past. You mentioned the coast guard as well and I wanted to highlight that and say thank you to you and your team for the work that has been done. Coast guard folks are getting an additional pressure point.
▶ 1:02:34Sen. Lankford: Folks are getting on jet skis. The coast guard is not only saving lives as we have seen in the past couple weeks about some of these boats that are coming in that are capsizing out there. The coast guard is rescuing and removing folks at the same time in the process. They have to have additional cameras are they need different radar systems and different people that are there.
▶ 1:03:00Sen. Lankford: I saw some of the dod personnel working alongside coast guard folks. They need additional folks there, so one of the question I want to ask about coast guard. There are other things, including personnel, that they will need help on.
▶ 1:03:20Sec. Noem: The coast guard mission said is expensive. Most of the time they are not only do search and rescue. They're are also participating with the navy in securing projects and missions worldwide and their cutters move faster and work securing our warships and aircraft carriers and it is important, the work that they do, so we are grateful for that but also recognize they have been neglected for years.
▶ 1:03:49Sec. Noem: They have cutters that have been delayed or outmanned by russia and china every day in the arctic region, in the indo pacific region as well. You talk to but the fact that these cartels are using faster boats with faster engines and jet skis and that is how they are penetrating into the country and proliferating their drug use and human trafficking. We will continue to get them the assets they need. They have several that have been grounded because they cannot be maintained anymore.
▶ 1:04:20Sec. Noem: They also need counter technology. I see drones every day in the waters in the work they do that they cannot find out why -- what they are doing, if they are weaponized, and then use that to protect our country. They need satellite technology and to be able to interact with law enforcement.
▶ 1:04:49Sec. Noem: Thank you for spending time with them, by the way. That is not just mean the world to them. I think you learn in a different way what their needs are. One was carrying around two radios that probably weighed five to seven pounds each and I said, why are you caring two radios? He said this one is an old one that does not work but this one has some channels this one does not have but I have to carry two of them to cover my bases.
▶ 1:05:16Sec. Noem: I wish we could get the newer one. This guy is walking around with his belt filled with not only all his other equipment but also these radios and it is that we cannot afford to buy him a new radio. It was already released five to 10 years ago but we have upgraded for these individuals, so that stuff could be addressed and it is important for us to do so.
▶ 1:05:41Sen. Lankford: Just a quick comment on a couple things. Our team has reached out to your team. There were things the previous administration would never turn over to us. We are doing investigations on the programs that were done. We can never get data on that. We are trying to figure out what happened to all of them so we would like to be able to get that information.
▶ 1:06:06Sen. Lankford: We have several pending requests and the other thing is on the fema grants, based on the tornadoes and storms that have come through the midwest, including states like kentucky and oklahoma of late. Some of the building resilient infrastructure communities, some of those grants there is a hold on being able to figure out the future of that, so additional information would help.
▶ 1:06:35Sen. Lummis: All -- Sen. b
▶ 1:06:44Lumenthal: I'm sure you have seen recent reports that your agency is going to sponsor a reality show tv show in which immigrants would compete for U.S. citizenship. His dhs seriously vetting a reality show for immigrants to obtain U.S. citizenship? Your spokesperson is quoted in the wall street journal.
▶ 1:07:13Lumenthal: Saying that it is in the beginning stages of that vetting process. Each proposal undergoes a vetting process. >> we have no knowledge of a reality show. There may have been something cemented to the department, but I did not know anything about this. Until the reporter reached out, we have no knowledge of it and they still printed wrong information.
▶ 1:07:43Lumenthal: That article they had to change later because they lied so bad and have us on the record saying I had no knowledge of a reality show. The department did not. There may have been something submitted along the line because there are proposals pitched to the department but me and my executive team have no knowledge of the reality show.
▶ 1:08:02Sec. Noem: There are no plans to do a reality show. >> and your spokesperson was misquoted as saying -- sec.
▶ 1:08:14Noem: That article was inaccurate and false. The fact that they printed it when they knew it was false was a dereliction of their work.
▶ 1:08:22Sen. Blumenthal: Let me go to expenditures, $200 million for an ad campaign fawning over president trump's supposed accomplishments.
▶ 1:08:42Sen. Blumenthal: $6 million to el salvador to imprison 300 individuals in a prison known for grave human rights violations and many more concluding thousand dollars to immigrants wishing to self deport. I understand one of the planes left in the last 24 hours. None of these expenditures are in your present budget.
▶ 1:09:06Sen. Blumenthal: Are you going to run out of money before the end of this fiscal year if the resolution does not cover any of them? >> dollars are being utilized as authorized. None of the flight that left yesterday -- >> you are just spending recklessly and it would seem wastefully without authorization.
▶ 1:09:34Sec. Noem: I disagree with you. I am doing the job the sec. Full and security is supposed to be doing that endangered the future -- the secretary of homeland secured he supposed to be doing.
▶ 1:09:49Sen. Blumenthal: You are acting in a way -- you think you're doing your job.
▶ 1:09:56Sec. Noem: The american people told us to do this job. They said we want a secure border. We want to make sure --
▶ 1:10:05Sen. Blumenthal: Outsider legal authority and spend money that is not in your budget --
▶ 1:10:11Sec. Noem: Money is being spent according to how it is authorized appropriately.
▶ 1:10:16Sen. Blumenthal: Let me ask you about the money being used to supposedly repatriate afghan allies, refugees to this country from the taliban, ukrainians who fled here from russian aggression. Can you confirm that money is being taken from the foreign aid allocation?
▶ 1:10:39Sec. Noem: Are you talking about the temporary protected status program?
▶ 1:10:44Sen. Blumenthal: The repatriation supposedly of individuals here under the temporary protected status quell. -- status quo.
▶ 1:10:57Sec. Noem: We have individuals participating in the program. That has been reevaluated. As intended by congress when it was laid out. That is always intended to be --
▶ 1:11:11Sen. Blumenthal: Publicly reported that say the administrations want to use money from the foreign aid program to send those people back to countries where they will be tortured and perhaps killed an afghan allies would be -- let me finish my question.
▶ 1:11:31Sen. Blumenthal: Will they will be potentially killed, tortured, afghan allies who served us during our wars there, saved lives of american soldiers and diplomats, sent back to the taliban using foreign aid money. Can you confirm that is the plan that has been reported in the washington post this morning?
▶ 1:11:57Sec. Noem: I will not confirm that because that is not true. Those individuals have opportunity to apply for asylum will they will be protected.
▶ 1:12:07Sen. Blumenthal: Planned to send back anyone --
▶ 1:12:10Chair Paul: Time has expired. Senator moody.
▶ 1:12:15Sen. Moody: Thank you for being here. I think I can speak for everyone in this room and this country that you are a welcome addition as the head of dhs. You heard time and time again from everybody who has been questioning you -- they sought repeatedly documents from that agency.
▶ 1:12:42Sen. Moody: I litigated as florida attorney general against dhs and sought documents and as part of that -- I hate that it took litigation to uncover what I believe is the most destructive cover up in our nation's history, but I uncovered plans by dhs when the border was overrun to step back and let everybody come in and facilitate that. Plans to push quotas into the interior daily.
▶ 1:13:10Sen. Moody: Plans to build illegal programs cut to bring more and more people directly here. Plans to illegally release people into the U.S. that had been brought here for prosecution, solely for prosecution for drug crimes from outside our country, and when they finished their decades long prison sentence as drug traffickers, instead of historically being deported, they put them back into the community in which they were prosecuted and release them.
▶ 1:13:41Sen. Moody: The premeditated cut calculation that went into destroying our borders and pushing barely vetted, often dangerous people into this nation -- I believe was something we will look back on and say that was the moment as a country we stopped taking seriously protecting the sovereignty of our nation, our
▶ 1:14:13Sen. Moody: Security, and making sure first and foremost we were keeping an eye on the plans of our enemies and the weaknesses we had as a countryi cannot thank you enough countryi cannot thank you enougo stepping up and coming back to the swamp to try and reverse the damage done. We have been talking a lot about coverups and things cap from the american people.
▶ 1:14:38Sen. Moody: Your predecessor set here and testified to congress while I was busy litigating as nagy, uncovering the real plans. The border is secure. The border is secure, time and time again, he lied. In terms of someone to be held accountable from torturing themselves, it is not about providing pencil -- information about lying to the american people as he made our country weaker and putting lives and families in danger.
▶ 1:15:10Sen. Moody: I think that is abhorrent and I cannot believe someone was allowed to be trusted with the he was given and I am so glad that you are willing to provide documents about that. The coast guard is one of the things that you said has been neglected for years and they are outmanned and equipped by russia and the cartels. We need cutters. Over the last administration we can see people many times, criminals coming to our shores.
▶ 1:15:42Sen. Moody: We have a maritime border and thankfully president trump came in on day one and so we were able to surge resources there. In the last year, we saw 13,500 illegal aliens stopped from entering florida and that was about 700 vessels we kept from coming on shore. It is so important that we get the coast guard cutters and get those ships built and ramp up assets. Thank you for that commitment.
▶ 1:16:14Sen. Moody: I am concerned that we would not try to do that so it is quickly and much needed that we give foreign nations and companies contracts. Do I have your word that we will look at how we can readily increase the coast guard assets using american businesses?
▶ 1:16:32Sec. Noem: Absolutely, that is one of the things that force design focuses on, building those kind of partnerships to meet the needs of the coast guard. I would say our greatest asset is our people. I am thrilled that coast guard recruitment is at 108% because of the excitement to serve in a fleet that gets to do its mission again, and recognizes that it has been neglected but there is a focus and recognition of the important work that it -- that they do.
▶ 1:17:02Sen. Moody: Florida has participated a lot. Partnering not only with texas, but we are ramping up our own assets to complement what was not provided to us in the last administration. Thank you for your dedication to secure our own maritime border.
▶ 1:17:18Sec. Noem: Thank you.
▶ 1:17:21Chair Paul: Perfect five minutes. Senator kim.
▶ 1:17:26Sen. Kim: A press release came out a couple of days ago and said that members of congress in new jersey that went to the delaney I.c.e. Detention facility "could have just scheduled a tour." I would like to hear from you if you can confirm that you understand that members of congress, by law, are allowed to show up unannounced to conduct oversight visits.
▶ 1:17:50Sec. Noem: They can conduct oversight. But what I would ask is that they understand that that does not mean that they can show up with a mob with the intention to break in. That is what happened. Those individuals and members of congress were surrounded by criminals, creating criminal and perpetuating criminal acts. When you show up and ask for a tour we facilitate every single tour that every single member of congress has wanted.
▶ 1:18:20Sec. Noem: We have done that and we also make sure that we address security concerns and have enough staff and all of that. We were accommodating that when those individuals showed up and decided to break in.
▶ 1:18:30Sen. Kim: You know that they were already on the premises already facilitating into having the tour when there was the arrest of the mayor. They were not breaking in.
▶ 1:18:40Sec. Noem: They had broken and the outer friends and they were on interior property.
▶ 1:18:44Sen. Kim: They were invited in as I.c.e. Were on a tour. You understand that they were not storming the fence.
▶ 1:18:54Sec. Noem: Are you making excuses for their behavior that day?
▶ 1:18:58Sen. Kim: I am trying to clarify.
▶ 1:19:00Sec. Noem: Oversight is an important part of what congress does and what you provide to our department. We give tours when members of congress ask for it. We ask that they not be politicized and they are per -- and they are there to provide the oversight needed.
▶ 1:19:16Sen. Kim: So if I were to show up at I.c.e. Detention facility unannounced I would be let in?
▶ 1:19:25Sec. Noem: I would ask that you allow us to secure the officers we need you -- we need to give you what an appropriate tour and to cover the bases that they would leave. We might have to call other people into cover.
▶ 1:19:38Sen. Kim: I have done this before, I wanted to make sure of that from you. And I wanted to go back to something raised earlier. Abs corpus abs corpu -- habeas corpus. Do you understand that any suspension requires an act of congress?
▶ 1:19:55Sec. Noem: President lincoln executed habeas corpus, with retroactive action by congress. I believe that any president that was able to do that in the past should be afforded to the current day president. This president has never said that he would do it and has communicated to me or his administration that they would consider suspending habeas corpus. The constitution allows on the right to consider it.
▶ 1:20:20Sen. Kim: When we saw what happened -- how me times has habeas corpus been suspended?
▶ 1:20:26Sec. Noem: Once.
▶ 1:20:27Sen. Kim: Four times. The instance you were referring to was one where the court subsequently showed that congress was the one with the ability. Do you know what section of the constitution the suspension clause is?
▶ 1:20:40Sec. Noem: No.
▶ 1:20:41Sen. Kim: Do you know which article?
▶ 1:20:44Sec. Noem: No.
▶ 1:20:45Sen. Kim: It is in article one. Do you know which branch of government that article one outlines the tasks and responsibility's?
▶ 1:20:52Sec. Noem: Yes. Congress.
▶ 1:20:55Sen. Kim: Stephen miller has said that he is actively considering an active consideration of habeas corpus. Have you had a conversation about suspending habeas corpus
▶ 1:21:07Sec. Noem: I have not.
▶ 1:21:08Sen. Kim: When it comes to fema and this is something I'm concerned about being from new jersey and we have had challenges with superstorm sandy and others. I was alarmed when I sell reports that the acting head, richardson said that he is 85 to 80% done with the hurricane season plan given that we are days away. I just want to ask you, is he done with his hurricane preparedness plan?
▶ 1:21:34Sec. Noem: He is working digital -- diligent -- diligently with the employees.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Kim: Have you seen this plan?
▶ 1:21:43Sec. Noem: Yes, as actively engaged we are staging people and equipment. And we are making sure that we have tabletop exercises that we are running through with the regions on what their response will be. It has been extensive has we laid out the plan.
▶ 1:22:01Sen. Kim: Will you share that plan with this committee?
▶ 1:22:04Sec. Noem: I will check to make sure that we could but I would check.
▶ 1:22:08Sen. Kim: One last thing. A couple of weeks ago you said you were considering restarting in person training at the national fire academy. I just want to make sure that you are prepared with moving forward with starting in person training.
▶ 1:22:23Sec. Noem: The plan is to do that again.
▶ 1:22:25Sen. Kim: That has been approved?
▶ 1:22:27Sec. Noem: Yes.
▶ 1:22:29Sen. Kim: Thank you.
▶ 1:22:30Chair Paul: Senator scott.
▶ 1:22:32Sen. Scott: First, I would like to thank the secretary for being here today. I would like to thank you and president trump for returning the department of homeland security to the coordination of securing the homeland and making communities safe again. You have prioritized the border. Daily border encounters have plunged 95%. Is that correct?
▶ 1:22:58Sec. Noem: Correct.
▶ 1:22:59Sen. Scott: You are finishing the border wall and they already have 85 miles planned or under construction, is that right?
▶ 1:23:08Sec. Noem: Yes.
▶ 1:23:09Sen. Scott: The trump administration has reunited 5000 unaccompanied children after the biden administration lost track of over 300,000 of these minors, does that sound right?
▶ 1:23:21Sec. Noem: Correct.
▶ 1:23:22Sen. Scott: Customs and border protection and the coast guard has seized 332,000 pounds of sentinel stopping them from ever reaching american communities and shores. Is that correct?
▶ 1:23:35Sec. Noem: Correct.
▶ 1:23:36Sen. Scott: You are bringing accountability and it is amazing what we can do with a willing partner and president trump who want a secure border. Secretary mayorkas testified and lied saying that the border was secure and it was clearly not.
▶ 1:23:53Sen. Scott: The biden administration dismantled every process and system to secure the border and allowed millions of illegal aliens including hundreds of known terrorists to come through the country unchecked in unvented wreaking havoc and bringing drugs. They were welcomed by senate -- secretary mayorkas and the biden administration. You have been working for months to fix the mess your present assessor left behind. Is the border secure?
▶ 1:24:20Sec. Noem: It is.
▶ 1:24:21Sen. Scott: Aside from additional resources, legislative fixes do you need to maintain a secure border?
▶ 1:24:28Sec. Noem: Thank you for the question. The border is the most secure border we have had in the history of the united states. What we need to do is address the areas still vulnerable. Those areas require technology, infrastructure, more individuals at times that we need, surveillance equipment and camera equipment to be fixed. Only one out of three cameras are functional right now.
▶ 1:24:57Sec. Noem: The reconciliation package is important to have the resources we need at the border but to make sure that cbp can do the work at the ports of entry assessing tariffs and collecting duties. Jan that reconciliation has needed assets for other areas of our national security portfolio. The department of homeland security is one of the largest agencies with one of the smallest budgets.
▶ 1:25:22Sec. Noem: The task that we have taken on has gotten more and more complicated as things move online and bad actors get more sophisticated. And we have let these dangerous cartel members into the interior of our country that threaten the american public. They need to read -- to be removed and taken out and we are fighting the court system. That package make sure that we are able to do due diligence and really assure the american people that we are on watch for them.
▶ 1:25:53Sec. Noem: Beyond that remain in mexico policy to be caught aside would be important to have stability in the policy going forward. Some clarity and crediblef some clarity and credible fear would be wonderful, and that would help us not having to deal consistently with court challenges that tie us up fighting that battle when we should be addressing security concerns.
▶ 1:26:17Sen. Scott: Mine is one of the 11 U.S. city hosting matches for the upcoming world cup. Can you discuss how dhs is working with state and locals to make sure they have everything they need for a successful and secure event?
▶ 1:26:31Sec. Noem: We are working diligently with fifa to ensure that cities and states have the assets that they need. This is an unprecedented world event taking place in three different countries. And many cities across our country but also mexico and canada and it will take place over a month, equivalent to 10 different super bowls and we will have 11 different matches going on on the same day.
▶ 1:26:58Sec. Noem: Making sure we are supporting security operations is imperative. So, having the conversations now, there are meetings happening almost every single day between our department, the white house, federal government, fifa, and the cities to make sure that we have protocols and guidelines in place. The universal approach on how they will be applied.
▶ 1:27:22Sec. Noem: And then what we can do to secure not just the ground, territory and access to the events, but also the airspace above eight. We need counter drone technology. We need to have jurisdiction to make sure that we are dealing with those threats as they present themselves and also the men and women who are trained and available to secure going forward. It will be safe and secure and it is a lot of work because we have never done anything like this before.
▶ 1:27:52Sen. Scott: Thank you for all of your hard work.
▶ 1:27:54Chair Paul: Senator slotkin.
▶ 1:27:57Sen. Slotkin: Thank you for being here. Michigan is a border state so we need each other. We have a very big bridge that is being inaugurated, and ribbon cut in september and we need that to be fully staffed. We have a lot going on in michigan as a nordic -- northern border states that we need each other.
▶ 1:28:19Sen. Slotkin: What I am concerned about is that you have taken the mandates to close off the border beyond going after, as you say "the most dangerous illegal immigrants." I am a cia officer and I worked my entire life to protect the homeland. If someone is here illegally they need to go back to wherever they are from.
▶ 1:28:43Sen. Slotkin: My concern is that either through sloppiness or intent you have gone far beyond going after "the most dangerous illegal immigrants" and gone into legal immigrants given the ability to be here, and even american citizens. And, when I think about that, there are a lot of people in this country including me who have families who fled this kind of environment where they have no rights.
▶ 1:29:14Sen. Slotkin: Where they have no due process. Where they do not have habeas corpus. So while I will be the first to say coming from a state that was won by trump that there is a mandate to do something about the border. I think it is dangerous overreach to go beyond that and start picking up american citizens, and people with the legal right to be here and lawful immigrants who have done everything right.
▶ 1:29:40Sen. Slotkin: First, you acknowledge that your department has made some mistakes, any mistakes in going after american citizens or legal immigrants here in the time that you have been in office?
▶ 1:29:51Sec. Noem: We have not deported any U.S. citizens.
▶ 1:29:54Sen. Slotkin: Detained?
▶ 1:29:56Sec. Noem: People get interviewed. If they go through that process and we find they are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.
▶ 1:30:03Sen. Slotkin: Have you deported -- have any american citizens including children been deported during your time in office?
▶ 1:30:12Sec. Noem: We have children whose mothers --
▶ 1:30:16Sen. Slotkin: My -- by my count you have 10 american citizens including children with cancer who have been deported out of the country. It is their choice. It is hard to imagine a small child having a choice. But, have you gone after legal immigrants. Your standard in your opening statement was the most dangerous illegal immigrants. Does that include phd students and masters students unarmed. Are they the most dangerous illegal when they have status and no weapons?
▶ 1:30:45Sec. Noem: I do not decide who gets status. The department of state decides that. That is what the department of homeland security does.
▶ 1:30:53Sen. Slotkin: Again, I have no qualms going after folks here illegally. That is not my concern. That was part of my job. In a former life. My concern is that you are standing -- sending a chill down the spine of america by going after people who have legal status or american citizenship.
▶ 1:31:16Sen. Slotkin: When my colleagues ask you about habeas corpus and you say literally we can review the tape that you believe it is a right that the president has, you set here in front of all of us and swore an oath to the constitution. And that is not at all what habeas corpus is and it is a right that all american citizens get. People in the united states legally have.
▶ 1:31:39Sen. Slotkin: My concern is it is complete overreach and I do not think american citizens, even those who voted for trump that you should just grab someone off the street. Sloppy. Who has the legal right to be here and as an american citizen. I am concerned that while you say you are going after the most dangerous folks, you are going after folks for political reasons. A phd student that is here is not the porting --
▶ 1:32:07Sec. Noem: We are not deporting U.S. citizens.
▶ 1:32:11Sen. Slotkin: 10 american citizens have been deported. Let me ask you another question about cybersecurity. You have cut 5 million hundred -- $5 million from the budget. What specific programs are you cutting because there are programs that really aid states and locals that we depend on for cybersecurity.
▶ 1:32:31Sen. Slotkin: We know that while we might have good security and the federal government, if you are a local state official, you are depending on the federal government. Have you cut the program to states and locals on cybersecurity?
▶ 1:32:45Sec. Noem: The president's recommended budget -- Sen. slotkin: I have heard the talking point.
▶ 1:32:52Sec. Noem: It is putting us back on mission.
▶ 1:32:54Sen. Slotkin: You cannot say it is the most cybersecurity administration if you are cutting the program to my state and your estate. And if you look on record that is what you have cut. I will yield back.
▶ 1:33:07Chair Paul: Senator hawley.
▶ 1:33:10Sen. Hawley: Welcome and congratulations on security border in a record amount of time. The last administration sat for four years and told us that it could not be done. The border was just a problem and it would take years to do it. You did it in the space of really 30 days and you not -- and now the southern border is secure. Thank you. I want to begin with the situation in st. Louis which I am sure you are aware of.
▶ 1:33:39Sen. Hawley: On friday afternoon and evening major storms ripped through the area and southeast missouri. I am putting a picture up over my shoulder. An f3 tornado cut through north st. Louis. What you are saying is pretty typical of the damage. We lost five people in st. Louis and another two in scott county in southeast missouri to the south, a couple of hours to the south. I spent much of the day walking these neighborhoods and talking to residents.
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Hawley: And this is what these neighborhoods all look like. These are areas that families have lived here and I talked to one individual and one gentleman who said that his family had been there since his grand -- great-grandmother came to the neighborhood in 1919. They are totally devastated. Yesterday afternoon my governor requested an emergency disaster declaration to expedite funds just to help clean up the kind of rubble now that you are seeing behind me.
▶ 1:34:38Sen. Hawley: You have been a governor and until very recently you know how important this is. Could we get your help to s -- expedite the consideration. It was made yesterday and we need as quickly as possible.
▶ 1:34:49Sec. Noem: Absolutely. I spoke to your governor and I did the day this devastation happen. We promised and pledged to get that expedited as soon as possible for him so he can have the resources he needs to respond. That is one of the failures that fema has had in the past.
▶ 1:35:07Sec. Noem: People who incur this kind of damage and lose everything and they sit there for months and years and never get the promised critical response that they believe that they should be getting from the federal government. That is why president trump believes that this agency needs to be reformed.
▶ 1:35:23Sen. Hawley: You are right. We have had the situation in years past where we have had individuals who qualified for aid including individual assistance and they have been awarded the assistance and fema has clawed it back or never paid it out or never sent teams to help. To have your commitment is tremendous and that will be welcome news to the residents of state lewis nash of st.
▶ 1:35:47Sen. Hawley: Louis and we have pending three request for major disaster declarations from earlier storms where we have lost over a dozen people. If you count the folks we have lost almost 20 people in major storms just in the last two months. It has been a terrible spring. Can you commit to helping for those three major disaster declaration requests that are pending. Can you help expedite those and get those in front of the president and approved. We are desperate for the assistance?
▶ 1:36:16Sec. Noem: Absolutely. I will make sure the application gets the white house as soon as possible.
▶ 1:36:23Sen. Hawley: If and when the president approves a major disaster declaration for the storm that happened on friday, will you expedite as much as possible fema individual assistance for those who qualify for it?
▶ 1:36:36Sec. Noem: Yes.
▶ 1:36:38Sen. Hawley: This is important because as I toured the streets what I heard over and over again is many of these folks do not have insurance. Many of these folks either got their homes from a family member or they bought them from a family member so they do not have a mortgage on the property, therefore they do not have homeowners insurance. As you know, fema assistance will be the only assistance that they will get.
▶ 1:37:06Sen. Hawley: And I just had a hearing in this committee and in our subcommittee where we talked to major insurance companies who routinely scam people by refusing to pay out the full policy that they are due. I know we will be fighting back. We have to have the federal government where there is individual assistance that people qualify for, people need to get that. Otherwise we will never rebuild these neighborhoods. You committed to expediting that and I appreciate that.
▶ 1:37:35Sen. Hawley: The last thing we will say is can you commit also to making sure that the fema communication, with state and individuals is open, clear and transparent. You reference the fact that fema is notorious for giving bad information and slow walking residents and confusing intake forms that nobody knows how to fill out and not getting back to people.
▶ 1:38:01Sen. Hawley: Can you commit to as we deal with this disaster that under your leadership fema will act with expedition. They are going to be clear in their communications and follow up and give people the awards they need if they qualify.
▶ 1:38:16Sec. Noem: That has been the biggest challenge, the delayed response. People are counting on the assistance and the paperwork is too complicated for an individual many times to complete on their own. They need help and assistance. That is part of the reforms at the review council will undertake and we have people who are front-line responders serving on that counsel.
▶ 1:38:38Sec. Noem: We will take your insight as well and continue to expedite with the framework in front of us but do better diligence on how we take care of people.
▶ 1:38:46Sen. Hawley: Everything you said will be welcome news in st. Louis and the rest of missouri. Thank you for being here.
▶ 1:38:53Chair Paul: Senator fetterman.
▶ 1:39:00Sen. Fetterman: Thank you. Secretary, hello. As you may know, I am from pennsylvania. And I occupy perhaps a unique position. I have been very pro-immigration, but early identified the serious problem about the border, security. And I have said it publicly and I will say it now, my party failed to secure our border.
▶ 1:39:33Sen. Fetterman: And we deserve to pay a political price for that. I have been trying to find a way to move forward on those things. I voted for you, and not because you and I agree on a lot of political things. But you are the secretary and I am a member of this committee so we have to find a way to work together. I am not here for fireworks or try to create something to be clipped for tv. I am honestly asking for your help a about a situation.
▶ 1:40:03Sen. Fetterman: I have a constituent. He is an afghani who served alongside our service members in the war. He is a resident of philadelphia. He is a surgeon and he saved american lives. And now he is waiting to be approved for a green card. And now, he helped evacuate our forces through an airlift.
▶ 1:40:30Sen. Fetterman: And his two brothers and we cannot name them due to concerns, but they are trapped in pakistan, and the risk of removal for afghanistan. They face torture and death because of their commitment for a free and democratic afghanistan. They have saved american lives, and they have defended our forces. And that is part of my concern right now.
▶ 1:40:55Sen. Fetterman: That is one of the reasons why I voted for you because he wanted to try and find a way because not all immigration is about securing our border but about helping people who deserve to come to our nation after serving in such -- at such an amazing risk. There was the president's executive order suspending refugee resettlement but they got caught up in the middle of that.
▶ 1:41:19Sen. Fetterman: And honestly, I am not looking for the theater what I am here because I believe they deserve to be here for the sacrifices and what they put at risk. And I am asking if we are able to get some work in with my office to find a way to bring these afghani heroes that saved american lives during that war, because things might've gotten caught up in these executive orders. That is all I am asking today.
▶ 1:41:46Sec. Noem: We will work with your office on those specific cases. We have 8000 individuals granted asylum since president trump has been in office, looking at cases much like you have. These individuals who are here who might have been under a program like tps which will no longer be in place in a couple of months, we have the opportunity to work to get them qualified.
▶ 1:42:12Sec. Noem: Many of the concerns with some of these countries when you are talking about interacting with them and giving them status and green cards is the ability to vet them, and it sounds like the individuals you know have been in partnership and vetted. And that is something that we will look at and we will certainly work with you on recognizing their service to our country.
▶ 1:42:32Sen. Fetterman: I would be grateful if my office could work with your team, and perhaps even with the state as well. That is all this is about. It is a political truth and we have to find a way to work together. The truth is not owned by one side or the other. I look forward to finding a solution. Thank you. I yield.
▶ 1:42:56Chair Paul: Senator moreno.
▶ 1:42:59Sen. Moreno: Thank you for being here and thank you for your work. I wanted to reiterate for the record, 93% drop in border encounters, is that accurate?
▶ 1:43:10Sec. Noem: Correct.
▶ 1:43:12Sen. Moreno: Are you aware that during the biden-harris administration we had 4000 aliens that died along the journey to come to america?
▶ 1:43:21Sec. Noem: I was not aware of the specific number but it does not surprise me. That it is a dangerous trip.
▶ 1:43:32Sen. Moreno: The gap went from being a supposedly on crossbow border to hundreds of thousands of people making the journey. Who benefited from our open border policy hunter biden?
▶ 1:43:44Sec. Noem: I would say joe biden dead.
▶ 1:43:46Sen. Moreno: And the drug cartels that made tens of billions of dollars?
▶ 1:43:51Sec. Noem: Yes.
▶ 1:43:52Sen. Moreno: Who were the victims? Certainly american citizens.
▶ 1:43:56Sec. Noem: Those who chose to come to our country at that time believing that they could come without consequences.
▶ 1:44:03Sen. Moreno: Obviously the drug cartels are drug cartels, that became human traffickers at scale and used the human trafficking as a disguise to allow illegal fentanyl to come into the country. What have been the ramifications? What are the agents telling you about the fentanyl?
▶ 1:44:23Sec. Noem: It is devastating. Luckily we have the ability to enforce our laws with this president. Fentanyl traffic has been down 54% since he has been in office because of that. What is happening is these cartels are now moving to the maritime borders and they are getting much more sophisticated. We need to adapt and have the resources to interdict them before they kill off the next generation of americans.
▶ 1:44:52Sen. Moreno: It is not hyperbole to say tens of thousands of americans have not been killed with fentanyl because of that. And it is just important to reflect, not just for political reasons but for moral reasons to say what happened over the last four years is despicable. We never should have allowed that to happen. There was no outcry about the situation. And yet, it is allowed to happen.
▶ 1:45:21Sen. Moreno: It is easier to enter america than being deported. Could you talk about that?
▶ 1:45:25Sec. Noem: When you have a president that is saying our laws will not be enforced and facilitating this invasion that happened over the southern border, we had millions of people come, and not just people looking for new opportunities but people coming who were criminals, traffickers, terrorists. Now to remove them is more complicated, difficult, and expensive.
▶ 1:45:52Sec. Noem: For us to deport someone we have to find that individual, arrest them, detain them and it costs upwards of $17,000. If there is more delays than the normal process. That is why we are encouraging people to self deport. If you are here illegally we recognize that you might been here for a period of time. If you want the chance to come back, leave on your own.
▶ 1:46:21Sec. Noem: We will buy you a plane ticket and when you land you can get started with $1000 and that cost of self deportation is $4500. It is much cheaper for the american taxpayer and how we make sure that we are following our laws and how the people in this country, the american citizens are treated with the respect that they are due by coming here through the -- through the legal process.
▶ 1:46:48Sen. Moreno: It is important and I hope my colleagues on the other cited of the aisle. Senator gallego's family came here from columbia and his dad from mexico. That we honor and respect those of us, like myself and my five brothers and my mom and dad that followed the legal process, which is hard. It is a privilege. It is not easy and you have to go through a process.
▶ 1:47:16Sen. Moreno: Over the last four years what we did is that we made it that if you hired a drug cartel it brought you to the border and then raised her hand when he got to border patrol and said asylum that that got you a free ticket into the country. Free housing, health care, and education to the detriment of americans. That should be something we unite about. Senator federman talked about asylum-seekers.
▶ 1:47:42Sen. Moreno: They are people who were economic migrants and we empathize with them, but we have to have a process where we honor the people following the rules. The afghani's have to wait in line behind millions of fake asylum claims and we have to once and for all acknowledge that that should not be the case.
▶ 1:48:04Sen. Moreno: I tried to do something for the rules act that says if you come across the border illegally and claim asylum you cannot claim asylum at an undesignated port of entry and you are automatically returned. That is something that is common sense.
▶ 1:48:21Chair Paul: Time. We will do another round in a few minutes.
▶ 1:48:26Sen. Moreno: D-I ask one quick question?
▶ 1:48:29Chair Paul: One.
▶ 1:48:32Sen. Moreno: I want to encourage you to continue to do what you are doing which is to enforce the law so that agencies in the dhs purchase products in the united states of america. So we applaud you for that.
▶ 1:48:44Chair Paul: Senator gallego.
▶ 1:48:48Sen. Gallego: Thank you for the hearing today. Let me start by also agreeing with senator moreno on some things and I think it is positive that the trump administration has provided strong -- strong border security. We definitely see that in arizona. My concern is that is not sustainable, it is expensive. That is why I released a commonsense border security that would make it sustainable and lead to long-term solutions.
▶ 1:49:17Sen. Gallego: Your department's overspending right now and is on track to run out of money again by mid july. This is to support a mass deportation campaign that cannot be afforded. At the same time he requested a $50 million allotment for a private gulfstream jet. $50 million of taxpayer money to subsidize some of your international tours. Republicans are about to kick another 13 million people off medicaid to fund taxes for the rich.
▶ 1:49:45Sen. Gallego: So how can you justify spending millions, $50 million on a jet while your department is definitely overspending and republicans are about to strip health care for millions of americans?
▶ 1:49:56Sec. Noem: Thank you for the question. We are spending our dollars appropriately and will be on budget. With the reference to the airframe, the requested dollars were put in for was for the coast guard to replaced an existing jet that is over 20 years old and is beyond its usable hours. In the coast guard for many many years has been neglected and has many airframes that have been grounded because they cannot be maintained.
▶ 1:50:24Sec. Noem: The suppliers give us parts and maintenance and they have said they will no longer support that kind of emission. We have cutter's that have not been deployed across the world, and then beyond that, we are asking for a request to build out the number of coast guard members that we need in place.
▶ 1:50:41Sen. Gallego: Are you going to have access to that $50 million gulfstream jet that the coast guard is going to supply?
▶ 1:50:49Sec. Noem: They will use out exactly how it uses the jets and the same manner that it uses the ones that it has in place today.
▶ 1:50:56Sen. Gallego: Would you be using it to travel?
▶ 1:50:59Sec. Noem: I do not know if I would use that one or the other one. I do spend time with the components making sure that they know that they have a secretary that is engage with them. And understanding what their needs are. They are not photos but they have meant the world. They have meant the world to our agents.
▶ 1:51:20Sen. Gallego: Speaking of about that, I talked to some law-enforcement besides those under dhs. We have seen some offers that have been pulled away from investigation such as child port in sex trafficking and we have had some agents pulled in doing investigations on bank fraud which are now provisional I.c.e. Agents.
▶ 1:51:45Sen. Gallego: I think creating them and making them do this work is making them more and more dangerous since they are not doing a long-term investigation. On the other hand I have talked to some border sheriffs and they have been highlighting the danger associated with cartels targeting teenagers in border communities through social community apps and getting them to participate. One of the bills that I introduced is the combating cartels on social media act which will help dhs counter the threat.
▶ 1:52:16Sen. Gallego: Communities cannot wait for the legislative process to play out. What is dhs doing to help solve the problem and keep american cute -- children and immunity say from cartel criminal activity and recruitment?
▶ 1:52:28Sec. Noem: That is a problem with the longer they are here the more established they become and the more they recruit individuals who live in this country, U.S. citizens or kids to be in part of some of their operations.
▶ 1:52:40Sen. Gallego: It is both sides.
▶ 1:52:42Sec. Noem: Some of the cartel -- what do you mean?
▶ 1:52:45Sen. Gallego: It is back-and-forth.
▶ 1:52:47Sec. Noem: They are and they are infiltrating the country by recruiting our children to be a part of this. So, we are working with not just the experts that we have within cbp and ic.c.e to address the sophistication.
▶ 1:53:06Sec. Noem: And partnerships that they might have with private industry that we can get insight in what we can do to deploy our own counterterrorist activities and applications to those systems and what we can do to make sure that we are stopping their ability to communicate with our children and bringing awareness. The department of homeland security has programs in different areas and other programs that you might be familiar with.
▶ 1:53:31Sen. Gallego: Are they working directly with the social media companies? Because by the time we got around to do it we are losing more people. Having a very direct conversation in a concentrated effort to have outcomes will be quicker. They have the option. They just choose not to because they would rather have making -- they would rather have more money.
▶ 1:53:53Sec. Noem: I found them willing to come to the table. I myself has spent dozens of hours with them and my team has spent hundreds of hours visiting on what we can do to be more proactive. They have some solutions that we can pursue and we will be coming to you with some of those ideas. It is important that we use their knowledge of this way of communication and recruitment to help protect our children.
▶ 1:54:17Chair Paul: Senator ernst.
▶ 1:54:19Sen. Ernst: Thank you. Thank you very much for being here today. I truly appreciate it. During your confirmation process, I had shared a story with you and it was a heartbreaking story about one of my constituents. Sarah was killed by an illegal immigrant that was drunk driving with re-times the blood alcohol content of the legal limit. Three times over the limit.
▶ 1:54:52Sen. Ernst: Using a loophole in the federal law, the killer fled the country and he vanished for years. But, thanks to your leadership, your leadership and the work of many of the brave men and women of dhs and the state department, sarah's kilo was arrested -- taylor was arrested in honduras in a matter of days after our conversation.
▶ 1:55:23Sen. Ernst: And was extradited back to the united states. He is in omaha, nebraska now and going through the court system and believe you and me, sarah's mother and father and her brother thank you day in and out and president trump for having the wherewithal to follow through to bring her killer to justice. So thank you. Thank you for that.
▶ 1:55:50Sec. Noem: Thank you for telling sarah's story. I know you had to for many years. That was the first time honduras extradited someone for homicide. And I think it is important the precedent that we set and the relationship that we built to get justice for sarah's family. Thank you for being passionate about her and that proves that telling her story does not fall on deaf ears with the administration.
▶ 1:56:18Sen. Ernst: It does not. And I want to take the time to point out the difference in the administrations. So, after this killer fled from prosecution in the united states, he was on I.c.e. Most wanted list in the trump administration. When president biden came into office he took the killer off of the most wanted list.
▶ 1:56:47Sen. Ernst: They were not actively trying to find him. They did not care about sarah's flight nor that of her parents. President trump came back into office and, again, within the first month of president trump being in office and you being sworn in, we had located him in honduras. And, was able to negotiate for the extradition of this killer back to the united states.
▶ 1:57:19Sen. Ernst: This family deserves justice and I am glad that you are getting it. Thank you secretary. Just a few moments ago, you said that you have provided the committee with "50,000 pages from covidnd the origins." I have not seen any of those pages yet, will you commit to ensuring that I am able to see those 50,000 pages?
▶ 1:57:44Sec. Noem: Certainly. They were given to the chairman at his request and I will certainly --
▶ 1:57:50Chair Paul: Those documents are up and your staff has access to them.
▶ 1:57:54Sen. Ernst: Thank you, I appreciate that. I know that the biden administration had blocked us from seeing that information. So I think it is really important that those of us on the committee that have pursued the origins of covid have the opportunity to review those documents. In the remaining time I have, I want to talk about the doge work going on and you have been a good partner.
▶ 1:58:23Sen. Ernst: I want to commend your recent efficiency. You have enhanced election integrity and save taxpayer dollars. In october of 2024, iowa uncovered 2000 cases of noncitizens, iowa. 2000 cases of noncitizens registering to vote, or voting after staff -- self identifying as noncitizens at the dmv.
▶ 1:58:54Sen. Ernst: This happens every day. The previous administration, again, joe biden, obstructed iowa's request for immigrant verification records in the days before our federal election. This is unacceptable and I am grateful that you tackled this issue immediately. Some people might say 2000 people, no big deal.
▶ 1:59:19Sen. Ernst: I will remind you that in one of our congressional districts in the case of mariannette miller-meeks, now a congresswoman, she won her race by six. Votes. It matters. Thank you secretary for doing the right thing. I yield.
▶ 1:59:41Chair Paul: We are going to do a quick round of five minutes one more time. I am going to gavel at five minutes so ever but he knows this is the end and we will move onto the next person to get you out of here. We talked a little bit about the wall earlier. The administration has asked for 46.5 million dollars for the wall. The border on the mexican border is 1950 miles. We have sent store walled about 700. This is about 1200 miles left.
▶ 2:00:12Chair Paul: 200 or 300 miles are mountainous or just impossible to fence or wall. I would say realistically you have owned or 1000. You really want to wall out 1000. Cvp says that $6.5 million per mile and your response was $12 million per mile. That means $12 million. We are off by a factor of three or four with 46 billion. Where is the rest?
▶ 2:00:41Chair Paul: The administration says they wanted for awol and you can pay if all of that and still have 34 billion left over. What is the 34 billion?
▶ 2:00:50Sec. Noem: Thank you for the question. We have 702 miles of wall today. 598 are steel and the rest is temporary. Since the president has been in office 70 miles have been erected. We have had 11 contracts that have gone out and been allocated. We have five more pending based on the dollars requested. It is not just the infrastructure built, it would actually be wall construction.
▶ 2:01:19Chair Paul: The number is why a off. -- way off. You can do $1000 -- $1000 for 12 billion. I would have to see more detail. 30 -- you cannot throw $30 billion out there and say things cost a lot.
▶ 2:01:37Sec. Noem: We will get you specific.
▶ 2:01:39Chair Paul: With regard to the drones and the preparatory work that we do for the nfl and fearful -- fifa, does the nfl pay for the work you do?
▶ 2:01:49Sec. Noem: Not to my knowledge.
▶ 2:01:51Sen. Ernst: Here is my point, the nfl makes billions of dollars. I do not care if government shares their technology and the government helps out the world cup. They ought to pay. We are paying hundreds of dollars for tickets and thousands of dollars for the nfl for the super bowl and things would also paying for fifa. These people want to pay. I am holding up these authorizations and I will let them go forward, but I want people to pay.
▶ 2:02:22Sen. Ernst: It is ridiculous that the average taxpayer cannot afford to go to the nfl super bowl and has to pay for their security. So nfl and fearful -- fifa are not paying and we will insist on putting language and that if you are a for-profit entity in the government is helping you you have to pay for it. With regard to tsa quiet skies and tulsi gabbard, I suspect that there were other people caught up in this thing as well.
▶ 2:02:52Sen. Ernst: I am horrified by the idea that we took a former congresswoman and we are surveilling her and riding on jets with her. There is a story of an air washable -- chair marshall his wife was in january 6 or something and now we have an air marshal following another one. I want to hear the whole story and I want to hear that people have been let go and they are no longer doing this.
▶ 2:03:20Sen. Ernst: If there were abuses of tulsi gabbard's liberties, I want to hear from that. I want repercussions from this. You said something was coming so please let us know and let us know how the program, the destruction of civil liberties can be minimized. I have trouble with the whole program, but let us see if there is some way -- we need significant reform and if it needs legislation come to us with that.
▶ 2:03:46Sec. Noem: Thank you.
▶ 2:03:48Sen. Peters: Thank you again for being here. I just want to follow-up briefly with what chairman paul said about the cost of the wall, the millions of dollars put forward. We have to have accurate numbers so we can look at that for funding. I hope you look at all the costs because there are a lot of other secondary kinds of defenses that you have to put forward.
▶ 2:04:13Sen. Peters: I have been with security folks and they tell me a lot of the cartels have designed very sophisticated technologies to get over the wall, they are called ladders and ropes. So, a wall does not do the job if they are not a lot of other back ground technologies. You cannot just put on a cause for the wall, that is money that is not affected without everything else. Let us have a discussion about that. For the first time in U.S.
▶ 2:04:40Sen. Peters: History, the federal government at the direction of president trump is moving immigrants apprehended and detained in the united states on civil immigration charges to the naval station at guantanamo bay, which you are familiar with. In march I traveled to guantanamo bay with several colleagues to have a firsthand examination of the detention operations underway. I certainly have serious concerns about the cost involved.
▶ 2:05:06Sen. Peters: To date, can you tell us about the cold -- the total cost for detaining individuals at quintana no?
▶ 2:05:12Sec. Noem: Per individual?
▶ 2:05:14Sen. Ernst: I do not have that -- Sen. peters: I do not have that -- you have that?
▶ 2:05:20Sec. Noem: Not today.
▶ 2:05:21Sen. Peters: Do you know how much it costs to hold an immigrant per day?
▶ 2:05:29Sec. Noem: I believe the last estimate I got was $142 a day.
▶ 2:05:34Sen. Peters: It is close to what I understand. I understand it is $165 per day. It is in the range. I am still waiting for a detailed financial information from this administration from my time from guantanamo bay. We in the ranking member and chairman paul wanted more information about the costs.
▶ 2:05:58Sen. Peters: When I was there the two month cost estimate for operations was $43 million when we were talking to the officials. And that does not include transportation to and from the island. We believe that people are sent to the island and then back to the united states before they are sent out. I am not sure they have all these costs. I do not know what you have to send them there and back. On the day that I visited there were 87 people in custody.
▶ 2:06:26Sen. Peters: My understanding is that is a normal number at that time at least. My back of the napkin calculations and we are waiting for your numbers is that it is costing $100,000 a day to keep someone in guantanamo bay. This is right for doge, and buyer they not down there? We are spending $100,000 a day to keep them there. Or, we could keep them here for $165 a day. I think that is outrageous.
▶ 2:06:58Sen. Peters: I am concerned about a staggering cost of this and, I would hope that you could commit to providing this committee a detailed breakdown of the total cost of that operation. There are just a sea of empty beds and security folks and nobody in the beds. Which is why it is so expensive. Chairman paul will probably use this on his -- on his festivus report and I look forward to seeing that.
▶ 2:07:27Sen. Peters: Are you familiar with section 872 of the homeland security act of 2022?
▶ 2:07:34Sec. Noem: It sounds familiar. You will have to remind me of the topic.
▶ 2:07:38Sen. Peters: It requires you as secretary to provide a 60 day notice the congress of any creation, deletion, consolidation or alteration of organizations within the department not required in statute which much include an explanation for the rationale behind any charges. It prohibits you from making any changes to offices. My question is why have you not provided notice to congress of the changes you are making at the department?
▶ 2:08:09Sen. Peters: And will you be doing so in the near future? And will you include intended reduction in forces in that? You have already terminated the whole civil rights and liberties office staff without any communication to congress about your intent. The only letter yesterday claiming all of the statutory responsibilities would be met you sent a letter but it conflicts certainly with the whistleblower disclosure that I received last week. Please explain to the committee why you are not following this law?
▶ 2:08:37Sec. Noem: We are following. Those offices that you referenced are still opening -- open and function and providing their duties as required. But they have been right size. The office of civil rights and civil liberties or the ombudsman office had grown quite expansive.
▶ 2:09:00Sec. Noem: They were used as a political tool, suing and attacking each other and censoring individuals and not doing the job for which they were created. We have right sized them and put them on mission. If there would be an instance where notification is required I would follow that.
▶ 2:09:17Chair Paul: Time is expired. Senator moreno.
▶ 2:09:21Sen. Moreno: Following up on the themes brought up, it seems to me that the most common sense answer and the least expensive way to house criminal aliens in the country is to not allow them to come here in the first place. So, whether it is 106 dollars day or $100,000 a day, it should be zero per day.
▶ 2:09:44Sen. Moreno: And I hope that my democratic colleagues, let us just codify what president trump has done and prevent criminal aliens or anybody from entering this country illegally. That seems like the most fiscally conservative thing. I hope when you are talking about these questions that we say let us stop allowing people to come into the country illegally. That does not mean we do not want people to come here illegally. That is the hypocrisy that I do not understand.
▶ 2:10:12Sen. Moreno: When you are be crying the cost of housing criminal aliens, but you turn a blind eye when we had 10 million people come into this country illegally. Shifting gears, you were a governor and what it surprise you to learn that you are rated one of the top five most fiscally conservative, frugal governors in america last year?
▶ 2:10:34Sec. Noem: It would not surprise me. I worked hard and making sure that we were accountable to taxpayers.
▶ 2:10:40Sen. Moreno: You are going to -- going to commit and I think it would be obvious that when you are appropriating money for the reconciliation process to do what you need to do that you will be as fiscally prudent with that money, correct? Let us talk about what they need. There is the wall and the wall by itself to senator peters' point does not accomplish the mission. There is all kinds of -- of advanced technology.
▶ 2:11:07Sen. Moreno: They have some incredible technology for detection makes the border control agents and you are looking at technology like that?
▶ 2:11:14Sec. Noem: That is one of the discussions that we have had with members of congress and in the committee hearings. A bauble different based on where it is plus it was never finished even where you have a steel wall. Many times they erected the wall but did not build out the technology to support it and to keep individuals from throwing ladders and ropes over them.
▶ 2:11:37Sec. Noem: There is a whole system designed to operate together and even when the wall was built, president trump was never given the opportunity to complete the system that would secure it better than just simple infrastructure.
▶ 2:11:50Sen. Moreno: Physical barrier and technologies. In some of these can determine the difference between the aunt -- an animal and a human and can safely let border control agents know what is there. It is talk about another part of the wall, the human elements. How is the morale at the border you got there. You took over day one and can you describe briefly what was like -- what it was like?
▶ 2:12:18Sec. Noem: It was discouraged. Many of us as governors, they were not allowed to do their jobs. They were hired onto border patrol and I.c.e. Is the same story. They had to do a job and they were not allowed to do it.
▶ 2:12:41Sen. Moreno: We have to make sure that we pay them properly. And near and dear to my heart is the automobiles that they use. Describe the insanity of the kinds of vehicles that biden and secretary mayorkas were given.
▶ 2:12:59Sen. Moreno: This is the most rugged terrain in america, boulders and rocks and hills and they were sending f-150's with 17 inch wheels and how many of the fleet were down because total and complete incompatibility.
▶ 2:13:14Sec. Noem: The fleet was unusable and not able to be maintained. There were times where the percentage would increase based on the conditions to which they were deployed as well.
▶ 2:13:24Sen. Moreno: I know you and I have talked about it but I want to reinforce on the record, we have a great company called jeep. They make a gladiator that would put giant tires on the wheels of the car and it would be amazing border patrol. And I think even the chairman would love to see new automobiles so that the border control agents can do their job and that is part of the funding.
▶ 2:13:49Sec. Noem: It is something we need to address and we have to in order to do our job -- for them to do their jobs.
▶ 2:13:56Sen. Moreno: Is there anything else that we might not have asked you which is important for the committee to know?
▶ 2:14:03Sec. Noem: You covered a lot of the components. We have not discussed the secret service and that has been a big topic for the committee in the past. I have the ability and responsibility to oversee the secret service and I want you to know that we have gone away from the d.e.I. Recruitment directive that the biden administration has utilized and we have made sure that they have the ability to do their job.
▶ 2:14:31Sec. Noem: One of the statistics that you might find helpful is we have an over 200 increase because of the work that sean and his team is done.
▶ 2:14:43Chair Paul: Senator blumenthal.
▶ 2:14:45Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you. On may 5 the customs and border control and border protection quietly rescinded and I am not sure it has been -- even been reported the "processing of pregnant and postpartum noncitizens and infants" policy issued on january 28 2022 citing it as "obsolete, or misaligned
▶ 2:15:18Sen. Blumenthal: With current agency guidance and immigration enforcement policy." that policy memorandum followed years of inadequate care documented by a report from the inspector general of the department of homeland security. That is showing that the treatment of pregnant and postpartum and nursing women and infants was just karen distally and horrifically inadequate.
▶ 2:15:48Sen. Blumenthal: And a recent site visit by senate judiciary committee staff confirmed that this problem is continuing. And pregnant women being detained do not have access to adequate health care. Do you agree or disagree that babies and pregnant women within cbp and ice custody should receive care tailored to their specific needs.
▶ 2:16:18Sen. Blumenthal: And why in god's name what that policy be rescinded. Providing that care?
▶ 2:16:24Sec. Noem: I will look at the specifics of the policy and what has changed. Everybody who is incarcerated or brought into custody and is in a detention center is receiving appropriate care and we are making individuals -- accommodations.
▶ 2:16:46Sen. Blumenthal: As a matter of fact it was happening -- it was not happening.
▶ 2:16:51Sec. Noem: I will look at where the requirements are changed or adapted. I do know about the policy change and I have looked at the guidelines on how we handle individuals. How could you --
▶ 2:17:06Sen. Blumenthal: How could you find it to happen?
▶ 2:17:10Sec. Noem: What are you finding wrong with individuals and are there concerns that there should be addressing.
▶ 2:17:17Sen. Blumenthal: Women who are pregnant and their infant babies are not receiving adequate medical care.
▶ 2:17:22Sec. Noem: Everybody receives medical care. It was in our custom e.
▶ 2:17:27Sen. Blumenthal: Why was the policy rescinded?
▶ 2:17:31Sec. Noem: Even if they are going to be returned we make sure that they have medical care in their home country before they are sent there. That is something that we do diligently to make sure that anyone who has a medical issue or concern and something needs to be addressed.
▶ 2:17:46Sen. Blumenthal: What you are telling me is factually untrue. More important, you permitted a policy to be rescinded that provides for adequate care because it was "obsolete or misaligned with your agency's guidance and immigration enforcement priorities." how can you sit here and tell us that caring for pregnant women or infants, or women postpartum
▶ 2:18:18Sen. Blumenthal: Is misaligned with your priorities. It boggles my mind.
▶ 2:18:26Sec. Noem: Everyone in our care and detention centers.
▶ 2:18:30Sen. Blumenthal: But it is your policy not to care for them. You are about to lose a fifth of your workforce and fema, correct?
▶ 2:18:39Sec. Noem: There are individuals and fema no longer working with us. They might have taken early retirement.
▶ 2:18:46Sen. Blumenthal: How are you going to meet the needs of our constituents in missouri or connecticut, which suffered floods recently. I saw fema inaction then as I have seen them over the years. They are dedicated and vigorous public service. They spend hours, days and weeks caring for people. You are losing a fifth of them including most of leadership.
▶ 2:19:12How Do You Plan Sec. Noem: Sec.
▶ 2:19:14Noem: To replace them? We have people and fema were in a crisis situation. Problem is that over the years and under the biden administration they failed the american people.
▶ 2:19:25Sen. Blumenthal: You are not answering my question. How are you going to replace a workforce to help the constituents in missouri. You just committed to help them and how will you help the people in connecticut or missouri or anywhere in the country if you do not have the dedicated public servants in fema and you are losing them?
▶ 2:19:48Chair Paul: Your time has expired. Senator kim?
▶ 2:19:52Sen. Kim: I saw the proposed budget and it showed a decrease for fema non-disaster grants and it was a proposed cut of about $646 million. It did not clarify what programs you thought needed to be cut. Is the nonprofit security grant
▶ 2:20:15Sec. Noem: Discussions with the white house. The president believes fema should be eliminated, reformed and states and local governments should do emergency response with the support of the federal government. He believes it should not be in the long term recovery, 20 years later waiting to make claims and go out.
▶ 2:20:38Sec. Noem: Many grant programs within fema were moved over into climate change priorities, into building bike paths and shade infrastructure and planting trees when really if it is a disaster and we need to mitigate something happening in the future, we should be building better roads and bridges and putting in tigger culverts in areas that need to be addressed, not necessarily planting shade trees and parks with disaster recovery dollars.
▶ 2:21:05Sec. Noem: All these dollars that come from these grants are pulling out of the disaster recovery fund. I think the allocation is appropriate. Many after evaluated are deployed. That examination is something I take seriously that I need to do to make sure it is on task for why that grant was established. >> I think the answer should have been a clear no.
▶ 2:21:33Sec. Noem: There is strong bipartisanship here in congress especially in the senate to protect the nonprofit security grant programs. Literally the best tool people in new jersey are telling me is needed to counter anti-semitism. I can't tell you the number of synagogues and temples lined up to try to get this type of funding. Given the rise of anti-semitism we have in our country right now we should be surging resources, not cutting.
▶ 2:22:01Sec. Noem: I would hope you have a more declarative no in that vein. I will be honest, I have been trying to see if we can dramatically increase funding to the nonprofit security grant program to fight the scorch of anti-semitism. Would you be open to supporting an increase in funding to the nonprofit security grant program if I'm able to work with my colleagues to do that?
▶ 2:22:24Sec. Noem: We definitely have seen the value in that program and are willing to discuss this with you. What I would say is we have to do an evaluation to make sure those dollars are going to the appropriate entities they were intended. They have been very important for many people in many communities and I recognize that. Working on how to improve it will be important.
▶ 2:22:51Sec. Noem: >> when we are hearing language about abolishing fema, one element people have raised most concerns about is what does that mean for the nonprofit security grant program? I urge you to work with me and the community to have a declarative stance on that so those concerned about anti-semitism can have clarity on what comes next. You did raise the fema review council which you said will be meeting for the first time today.
▶ 2:23:20Sec. Noem: We have talked about this before about what comes next. I wanted to see if you would commit to working with this committee and hearing our perspectives as part of the council's work and giving us an opportunity to engage before the committee concludes works and finalizes recommendations. Is that something you can commit to?
▶ 2:23:39Sec. Noem: Absolutely. There are things fema needs your input like statutory requirements. It is a reform process that will include you and this committee. >> I know that is something we talked about before you were confirmed. Everyone here recognizes reforms are needed. The question is how it is situated. I have thoughts I would like to reflect on the folks from new jersey. Hurricane season is upon us.
▶ 2:24:07Sec. Noem: You have a sense of when the white house will announce a full nominee for fema administrator?
▶ 2:24:12Sec. Noem: Should be soon but I will not put a timeframe on president trump. >> we want to have confidence that we have the leadership in place to do this.
▶ 2:24:22Sec. Noem: We do have a leader in place and I can connect you with him as well. >> it would be good to have that formal nomination. The last thing we could do in the qfr, there been reports of cuts to the national database tracking domestic terrorism. Dhs cut the funding. Is that correct and is there anyway are tracking domestic terrorism?
▶ 2:24:49Sec. Noem: I can follow-up up and give you that information. >> you're almost done. You have outlasted everyone but me. You don't have to necessarily answer this, you can comment if you want but I think a problem I have always had with discussion of the border is people who often are conservative and talk about fiscal conservatives, once we talk about the border it is all out the window. Estimates on the wall, I don't think it is a conservative estimate.
▶ 2:25:17Sec. Noem: It is more like $30 million a mile or the cdc says six, you said 12. I also would say you're controlling 95% of the border without a wall right now. That is an argument that maybe you don't need a wall, you need willpower. I give president trump great compliments for what he has done and what you have done. No new builds, no new money. I'm not saying you don't need more money.
▶ 2:25:47Sec. Noem: You need more border patrol, but it should be within reason. If I were in charge of the border and wanted immediate control and was not quite there yet I would put 100 helipad's down about 50 yards by 50 yards and put up 100 helicopters along the border every 10 miles and use technology to patrol the border and pick anybody and everybody who crosses the border illegally with helicopters and I think you could do that for $500
▶ 2:26:18Sec. Noem: Million versus $46 billion. I know the wall has great symbolic value but I think we can reassess the cost, what to do, since we are controlling 95% of the border. You mentioned some needs to be replaced so I'm not against or calling for no money but I do think the $46 billion is not justified unless we see something else from the instream -- administration.
▶ 2:26:50Sec. Noem: Thank you for your time and working with the committee or the record world stay open until may 21 for submission of statements to the record. The hearing is adjourned, thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]