▶ 0:12:45>> I call this hearing to order. Welcome to our guests, -- guest, tom schultz who is in the position of the head of the forest service, and we are happy to have him here and testify in front of the committee. This is an oversight hearing on the president trump budget request for the U.S. worst service fiscal year 2026. The chairman has been unavoidably delayed. He will be here in 15 minutes.
▶ 0:13:08But rather than asking you to delay your time, I would invite you to give your opening statement and we will start with the questioning and when the chairman arrives, he will make his opening comments. Welcome to the committee.
▶ 0:13:19Mr. Schultz: Thank you, senator barrasso, members of the committee, ranking member heinrich. Thank you for inviting me to testify today. I want to begin by remembering the tragic loss of the two firefighters in idaho who were ambushed by gunfire on june 29 when they showed up to suppress a fire. Our heartfelt condolences go out to the county and the firefighters, first responders, and the greater community.
▶ 0:13:47Mr. Schultz: Forest service manages 154 national forests and 28 grasslands covering 190 3 million acres in 43 states and puerto rico. Forest service works with communities, state, local and tribal governments, force industries and private forest owners for multiple uses. The big picture is that america's fours provide timber, clean air and water, forge and energy production, support local economies through trade, recreation, tourism, jobs.
▶ 0:14:17Mr. Schultz: Analysis shows in fiscal year 2023, the four service programs contributed 390,000 jobs, 45 billion dollars in gross domestic products. I am grateful to serve at the 21st chief of the forest service. I recognize I'm the first chief we did not come from or previously work within the agency, but I hope you will see that as I do it I have 27 years of land management and fired experience in a lifelong use of public lands.
▶ 0:14:42Mr. Schultz: I work for the state agencies in montana and idaho and it has given me a perspective in managing public trust lands and how it differs from the goals in managing federal lands been my expense in the private sector give me a deep understanding of markets and the role that raw material, quality and price plate and being able to support a profitable forest industry.
▶ 0:15:02Mr. Schultz: Fiscal year 26 budget focuses on active management, critical minerals permitting recreation, energy development, multiple use management and a back to basics approach. The budget request emphasizes efficient and effective fire management by consolidating the federal suppression response apparatus into new wild fire services and the department of interior. We understand the utility of the national forest.
▶ 0:15:30Mr. Schultz: The production of timber, lumber, paper, bioenergy and other products is vital for the country's well-being. The president's executive order expansion of timber production emphasizes the importance of timber production and how forest management can support american lives and communities. For fiscal year 26, it supports the executive order by maintaining the ability to support the forest products industry and shifting the analysis program to the national forest.
▶ 0:15:59Mr. Schultz: It will better align data needs for public and private forest management. Livestock grazing on federal lands is integral to reach just across the united states. It is permitted on 40% of hundred 93 million acres of national forest system land across 27 states. When Mr. permits for approximately -- 1.3 million acres authorized for cattle and 800,000 for sheep.
▶ 0:16:24Mr. Schultz: Access to critical minerals is essential to contribute to a stable supply of energy while continuing to sustain long-term ecosystem health and productivity. National forests are bountiful resource for minerals. We work hard to manage leasable minerals from the national forest system. We carry a fiduciary responsibility to the american public. We are examining how to best optimize the workforce and expenditures touche be sure we are focused on field-based operations that are essential to meeting high-priority objectives.
▶ 0:16:55Mr. Schultz: The 26 budget request reduces or eliminates some aspects of federal funding for the forest service budget to ensure stewardship of the tax payer dollars into better balance the appropriate roles of the federal and state governments. It is not our intention to degrade the services of states and local governments, we must change the reliance on the federal government to fund the delivery of the services it in alignment with restoring a federalist approach, we encourage increasing state authority for privately owned forest, community preparedness and mitigation activities.
▶ 0:17:26Mr. Schultz: Communities across the country depend on national forests and grasslands. I worked tirelessly to support those by actively managing the national forest system for multiple uses. We are committing to conservation groups and others and as it has for more than 100 years. Thank you for inviting me to be here. I will be glad to answer your questions. >> we welcome you here today. We have not had an opportunity to meet.
▶ 0:17:56Mr. Schultz: I read your bio and work -- look forward to working with you in the next few years. Congratulations on this important appointment. It is incredibly important for wyoming. I appreciate your willingness to join us later this month in wyoming and I am glad you will be meeting with the producers and learning how you can strengthen the management of the national forest grazing. I want to congratulate you and thank you for working with senator rounds.
▶ 0:18:26Mr. Schultz: Your role on the role a few weeks ago. What was outdated policy that has hindered forest management in wyoming for years. This will restore vital forest health, helped reduce wildfire risk across the country and help to boost responsible timber production. Thank you for your leadership there. With regard to timber production, or two years ago, and enterprise announced layoffs and shift reductions at the south dakota facility.
▶ 0:18:59Mr. Schultz: Facility in hewitt, they reduced down to one shift. This has reduced their capacity as a result of the biden administration's limiting of timber production. This has impacted sawmills all around. What is the agency doing to retain the infrastructure in the black forest?
▶ 0:19:22We Mr. Schultz: Have been -- we have been working closely -- Mr.
▶ 0:19:26Schultz: We have identified staff to the black hills from washington state to assist in preparing sales, increased funding for them in the short term to address shortfalls in funding. We are collaborated with not only the industry but with ngo's and also with the state of wyoming to increase predictability of the program for the black hills.
▶ 0:19:55Schultz: Staffing, funding and collaborating with entities to ensure the right plan in place.
▶ 0:19:59Sen. Barrasso: And helping with communities as well?
▶ 0:20:03Mr. Schultz: Yes sir.
▶ 0:20:07Sen. Barrasso: We have had fairly sedated fires in wyoming. Last year, johnson county, 175,000, oak fire, 68 -- 98,000 acres, bracing again for this year and resources are spread thin. Federal and state agencies I believe must work together. Can you talk about how the forest service is engaging state, local and private part is to ensure we can effectively respond to wildfires?
▶ 0:20:37Mr. Schultz: First of all, the national foresters represent the state interest in many cases. With ongoing dialogue throughout the year and try fire season increase. We have had meetings both at the local government level, volunteers and the state. Those meetings have been accomplished. The big thing is operating agreements are in place for the state so that when issues come up in terms of who is going to pay the cost of fighting the fire, those actions are not going to be in front of us.
▶ 0:21:08Mr. Schultz: That has been agreed to already. It will not impact tactics or strategies in fighting the fire over concerns of who will pay for it. That is what we have done to make sure we are prepared in working with partners.
▶ 0:21:21Sen. Barrasso: We talked about how many millions of forest acres are at hot -- high risk of fires. In fiscal year 2024, the U.S. forest service treated only 4 million acres of the national forests. It is imperative that the forest service start planning and how they are going to treat the high risk areas with international forest system. You inherited the prior administration's budget deficit.
▶ 0:21:50Sen. Barrasso: Can you talk about how you plan to catch up from the last four years in forest management?
▶ 0:21:56Mr. Schultz: The big thing is relying on partners. If you recall, there was a disaster bill passed at the end of the year and $75 million and that when he is being put to help. We are looking at other partners, whether it is ngo's or industry and helping to manage national forest system to increase the pace and scale of what we are doing. We will also be relying on states to do that.
▶ 0:22:24Sen. Barrasso: My final question, the U.S. department of agriculture and announced it will be revising regulations, the national environmental policy act. I commend you and secretary rounds for your efforts to reduce unnecessary red treat -- secretary rollins for your efforts to reduce unnecessary red tape to guide the management of national forests.
▶ 0:22:53Sen. Barrasso: I understand there have been public and stakeholder meetings. Currently, the teton and black hills are going under the revision process. Can you give us an update for the forest plans?
▶ 0:23:09Mr. Schultz: The black hills plan was started in 2001. The phase one assessment is complete and we expect to have the full plan completed by 27. There is involvement. The teton plan was started in 2024. It is out for public review today and that will end in august of 2025 and we expect the entire process should take two or three years to complete the process.
▶ 0:23:36Chair Lee: Thank you so much.
▶ 0:23:39Sen. Wyden: Mr. schulz, the lack of emergency preparedness, whether it is in texas hill country or public lands in oregon can cost lots.
▶ 0:23:54Sen. Wyden: Just recently, fire officials in southern oregon told me they were coming up dangerously short and emergency preparedness, specifically I was told in southern oregon, one meteorologist is trying to provide early warning systems and doing the work for four people.
▶ 0:24:15Sen. Wyden: With this -- what this is about is getting timely information out to communities so they can battle these infernal's. We talked in the past about these infernos are not your grandfather's fires. They are bigger and harder and we need to address this critical preparedness.
▶ 0:24:37Sen. Wyden: Instead of moving quickly, you all have tried and out -- put out a new and described as improved reorganization in the middle of the very dangerous fire season.
▶ 0:24:56Sen. Wyden: Nobody in my home state, and I was chair of this committee and worked closely with the agency, has in effect said we have to help the forest service fighting fires. That is the net effect of your organizational plan. What is this new plan going to accomplish for preparedness in my home state this fire season?
▶ 0:25:25Sen. Wyden: That is what I was asked about it what can be done this fire season and how is this new organizational plan going to get real help to people quickly?
▶ 0:25:35Mr. Schultz: Thank you for the question. This fire season we do not intend to implement any changes in the structure of the program. Nothing will take place this fire season.
▶ 0:25:48Sen. Wyden: Why aren't we using the resources that seem to be going to this new plan to get help to the people who are telling me they are coming up short? Why it wouldn't we get that help out to them quickly?
▶ 0:25:59Mr. Schultz: Here is where we are at. The staff and we typically higher for firefighters is 11,300 firefighters. Today we are at 11,250, roughly firefighters but we are at 99% of hiring. In terms of firefighting capacity, we are there. We have not made any changes to the resource availability this year, whether aviation resources --
▶ 0:26:28Sen. Wyden: Why don't you get me in writing something that backs up your argument that there has been no reduction in resources, because that is not what I was just told in southern oregon where they are worried about getting urgently needed information. Along these lines, we have been told that the agency, and we are most of the way through the fiscal year, hasn't treated half as many acres to reduce wildfire risk as were treated in the last year of the biden administration. Why is that?
▶ 0:27:00Mr. Schultz: Sir, we actually have treated similar acres that we did in previous years. This administration came in february, so in terms of treating acres, there has not been a major reduction to acres treated for the last year over this year.
▶ 0:27:17Sen. Wyden: We will get to you those numbers, because that is factually inaccurate. Let me tell you what concerns me about this net effect because I have described to the problems that we are seeing on the ground in southern oregon or we are not getting help in terms of stepping up to deal with emergencies.
▶ 0:27:41Sen. Wyden: I mentioned the data that shows we are not doing as much timber production in line with the natural resources laws as in the biden administration. It seems to me what you are doing is making a case that somehow this mismanagement is a case for summit of public lands. I want you to know that I am going to fight that argument every step of the way.
▶ 0:28:03Sen. Wyden: We have heard loud and clear that when the administration advanced to arguments just recently for selling of public lands, the american people said no way. Not a close call, no wait. I am not going to allow the mismanagement and lack of really using resources effectively as I have described in my state become an argument that somehow this mismanagement is a case for selling of the public lands. Thank you.
▶ 0:28:30Chair Lee: Chief schulz, I was thrilled by the announcement made by secretary rollins about the rescission of the world's rule.
▶ 0:28:44Chair Lee: It prohibits as the name implies, road construction and it also prohibits effectively timber harvesting on 59 million acres of national forest lands including 60% of the forest service land in utah appeared at 59 million acres represents nearly 10% of the total federal land footprint. This is a significant amount of land.
▶ 0:29:13Chair Lee: While the intent of the original roadless rule may well have been to preserve the environment, and practical effect, in many ways, it has done the opposite of that. The practical effect has been environmental disaster. It has been devastating to forest health and wildfire mitigation efforts. It has also added to the demise of our domestic timber industry.
▶ 0:29:41Chair Lee: At last year I asked your predecessor, the person who held this job in the previous administration, if the roadless rule had helped or hindered wildfire mitigation efforts. And he said "I don't think it was designed to help wildfire mitigation they're -- mitigation." certainly a true statement and vastly understated in my opinion.
▶ 0:30:07Chair Lee: Would you say the roadless rule has helped or hindered wildfire mitigation efforts over the last two decades?
▶ 0:30:13Mr. Schultz: Sen. lee, what we see in terms of data sets, 24.5 million acres of roadless areas within the interface within one mile. By not being able to have areas that we can go into and manage or be able to put fires out, that is a problem. It does not help for sure and definitely hinders.
▶ 0:30:38Mr. Schultz: Many roadless areas are in fact --. There are a lot of roadless and to suggest that roadless areas are truly always will this naturalist is not the case.
▶ 0:30:55Chair Lee: I get that. Has it helped or hindered? What is the rescission of the roadless rule mean for land and timber harvesting and wildfire mitigation of forcing going forward?
▶ 0:31:14Mr. Schultz: What that will look like is we will begin this fall a rulemaking process that we will go through the process to repeal the rule efficiently -- officially. Idaho and colorado will not be because they have their own rules. There having public input on the process and we would have to amend force plans to adopt those plans.
▶ 0:31:45Chair Lee: I would like to discuss briefly the rescissions to the national forge management plan. The -- national forest management plan. The draft of the plan in 2023 included recommended wilderness areas. To be perfectly clear, these areas do not meet the forest service's own standards for wilderness or for recommended wilderness.
▶ 0:32:12Chair Lee: The recommendations also appear to conflict with the utah wilderness act of 1984, which designated wilderness areas in exchange for the assurance of no future in utah designations and that was seemingly ignored by the biden administration. Will you commit to working with the state and local cooperating agencies to reevaluate and remove the recommended wilderness areas before the final land management plan is complete?
▶ 0:32:41Mr. Schultz: Yes, we have received the comments and they are being reviewed and we are definitely working with the state and reconsidering the recommendations in the draft.
▶ 0:32:50Chair Lee: Thank you, and I hope you'll reach out to me as you can in any way I can be helpful. Timber harvesting is a critical component responsible for force management and helps maintain healthy eats forest density, removes hazardous fuels by preventing fuel buildup for the fires in support roles economies.
▶ 0:33:22Chair Lee: Since 2000, the average annual harvest from forest system plans has been just 2.3 billion, far below both historic averages and allowable quantities.
▶ 0:33:37Chair Lee: Just last week we took a huge step in the right direction by enacting new tumor harvesting provisions in the big beautiful bill passed by congress and signed into law by president trump to help restore the forest and revitalize the timber industry.
▶ 0:33:53Chair Lee: What do you see is the biggest remaining barriers to increasing timber production on federal lands now that the bill has been passed and how do we cut through red tape and provide a degree of certainty for the timber and sawmill industries?
▶ 0:34:09Mr. Schultz: Mr. chairman, the biggest thing the sawmills are looking for is certainty and predictability. The biggest things is they need to say -- and do what they say they are going to do good when you talk about sustainable supply, if we deliver what we say we're going to do, that is what the industry is looking for. Litigations are barriers but in terms of funding, we are looking at other ways. You mentioned long-term contracts in the reconciliation bill.
▶ 0:34:39Mr. Schultz: That is something we will look at. We just signed an agreement last week to where the state would come in and assist in managing the federal lands. We had some initial discussions with utah to look at that and other states. We see that as an opportunity with the states can help in and help us manage the resources going forward. We are looking at other mechanisms for contracting, working with partners.
▶ 0:35:08Mr. Schultz: Litigation, and I know there are positions in statute you are looking at to help with some of that. We talked about the cottonwood decision but that is one that is out there and creates hurdles for us, litigation piece.
▶ 0:35:21Sen. Padilla: . .
▶ 0:35:28Sen. Padilla: The forest service plays a critical role in wildfire response, not just programs to prevent or mitigate the impact of fires but to respond to them when they happen.
▶ 0:35:43Sen. Padilla: Under the current administration, we have seen a dangerous reduction in the capabilities and capacity of the forest service to respond to wildfires through the deferred resignation and early retirement authority, the forest service has lost more than 5000 employees, about 1400 of whom had read carts.
▶ 0:36:10Sen. Padilla: I am concerned this is a significant reduction in capability and capacity and poses a serious danger to communities, not just in california, but elsewhere in the west and across the country. The reductions coupled with the diverting national guard units in california mean that those resources are no longer available to support wildfire response capacity. It is not just irresponsible, it is dangerous. That is me talking. I want to hear from you.
▶ 0:36:42Sen. Padilla: You know that since the reductions, the agency has invited those who resigned to re-status themselves for fire season. Can you share how many have taken up the offer to re-status?
▶ 0:36:56Mr. Schultz: To restate, in terms of resources, we are basically at 99% capacity of the firefighting resources. We have had no degradation. There has been no impact on the front end.
▶ 0:37:15Sen. Padilla: How do you offset the 1500 staff?
▶ 0:37:19Mr. Schultz: We had people who took drp, firefighters were not eligible. We had non-firefighting personnel, 1400.
▶ 0:37:33Simple Idea -- Sen. Padilla: Are you saying there was no reduction in the red carts.
▶ 0:37:39Mr. Schultz: Firefighters are not eligible so none of them took it. We had other staff that were non-fire personnel that had red carts. 4000 took it at 1000 retired. 1400 of the books you are referring to. We don't have numbers. They have been coming back on in the last couple of weeks. As we get the numbers, we will get them to you.
▶ 0:38:03Mr. Schultz: But we have reached out to the 1400 and a lot of them to come back and encourage them to come back. We have a process to come back and support us to the end of september.
▶ 0:38:15Senator Padilla: I would eagerly await those numbers and regular report updates, because they are significant. Even those who are not firefighters served in critical roles to support the firefighting activity I will be looking for the further assurances and commitment on your part because we are just entering peak fire season in california and the west. I will get back to the top of the partnerships.
▶ 0:38:45Senator Padilla: You mentioned it earlier in the hearing and I know senator barrasso emphasized it could forest service state and private force to programs including state fire assistance, the volunteer assistance, and the broader state private and tribal for street initiatives provide crucial financial and technical support to state and local fire departments for wildfire prevention, as well as detection and suppression.
▶ 0:39:15Senator Padilla: The programs are essential for building and maximizing the capacity responders during wildfires. What is the status of fy 25 funding for these programs? And I guess alongside with that, what is your confidence in getting the funding out by the august 15 deadline?
▶ 0:39:41Mr. Schultz: The fiscal year 2025, we are still working on that request. We are looking to finalize that within the next couple of weeks.
▶ 0:39:57Sen. Padilla: That worries me. The deadline is august 15 and we are a month out and you are finalizing the numbers.
▶ 0:40:04Mr. Schultz: The 2024 numbers for 2025 are still being finalized for some of those programs.
▶ 0:40:12Sen. Padilla: That should be a red flag. In the past, fires in california including santa rosa years ago, los angeles were recently, these other types of programs we should be supporting. I ask you about the fy 25 numbers. Do you know with the fy 26 numbers, my understanding is the budget zeros out the program. How does that make any sense?
▶ 0:40:40Mr. Schultz: I think the intent of the program in 2026 is to transfer responsibility to the states. That is the intent of that and giving the states heads up that is coming.
▶ 0:40:53Sen. Padilla: Every state I know is having a tougher budget picture to face, the threat of fires is real. The threat of fires is growing. How does it make sense for the federal government to zero of these programs that you set are so critical?
▶ 0:41:08Mr. Schultz: Sir, we would still partner with the states in dialogue and discussions.
▶ 0:41:15Sen. Padilla: How does that make sense?
▶ 0:41:18Mr. Schultz: It is sharing and pushing it to the states.
▶ 0:41:23Sen. Padilla: The states have less to work with, how does that make sense?
▶ 0:41:25Mr. Schultz: It makes sense because it puts the responsibility on the states to make them will.
▶ 0:41:32Sen. Padilla: May be residents of california or utah or other states, these are all americans, communities in the united states of america that are at increased risk because of the actions of this administration which contradict the supposing goals and objectives.
▶ 0:41:56Sen. Paul: Deig
▶ 0:42:07Sen. Paul: De --- if you look at federal versus state lands, the states aredoing a much better- job in the stewardship of public land in the federal government and I appreciate the effort you are doing to work with the states as you are doing. I know the ida cove -- idaho delegation likes to clean you what I want to remind the committee that before you in idaho you were in montana and it is good to see you here. You understand west and I appreciate that.
▶ 0:42:32Sen. Paul: I want to acknowledge the work the forest service are doing across the country with just fire season is expected to be another challenging year for you and your team. Congress must do more to ensure the forest service has the tools needed to not only fight the fires but prevent them in the first place and we can do this by increasing better at forest management activities, and decreasing litigation that is holding up projects.
▶ 0:42:58Sen. Paul: On the fourth of july, president trump signed into law the one big beautiful bill and with it is an extremely important provision for forced health. As you know, the new law requires the forest service to nearly double annual timber sales by 2030 four. That would put montana at approximately 250 million more feet and 5 billion feet nationally.
▶ 0:43:23Sen. Paul: These numbers are more in line with the forced plans and will lead to stronger communities, better forest health and reduced wildfire risk. Chief, will you prioritize implementation of this provision in the one big bill?
▶ 0:43:40Mr. Schultz: Thanks for the question. Yes, we will be doing that. You know those provisions are there. The increase is 258 million nationally year over year for the next 10 years and he will be doing that.
▶ 0:43:55Sen. Daines: You brought up the cottonwood decision and one of your responses. I have the bill that will fix that disastrous ninth circuit decision. It is crucial in preventing some of the litigation that is stopping wildfire mitigation work and fixing it will be necessary for you to fully implement the new provisions that are found in the big beautiful bill.
▶ 0:44:20Sen. Daines: In montana alone, there are 367 million feet of timber project tied up in litigation. This means less work done on the ground before it season starts in montana and increased risk of catastrophic wildfire for the communities. When you think about montana, many think of it is a beautiful rivers and fishing but we are a semiarid state.
▶ 0:44:47Sen. Daines: Washington dc gets 39 inches of rain, more than seattle by a little bit. My home of bozeman, 16 inches of rain. It is a precious commodity, water is and why we have to be smarter and better in managing the forest because of the climate I get to call home.
▶ 0:45:07Sen. Daines: There are increased costs and the forest service must spend additional staff time responding to litigation and time trying to make these projects bulletproof rather than advancing other work. In fact during a recent hearing, the associate chief chris french said at the forest service unit costs are double in regions with frequent anti-for street litigation.
▶ 0:45:31Sen. Daines: Will you commit to working with me and this committee to get a legislative fix done so that the forest service can focus on getting fired mitigations completed rather than fighting in this litigation?
▶ 0:45:44Mr. Schultz: Yes, we will do that.
▶ 0:45:47Sen. Daines: The night circuit cottonwood fix, this started off as the small band of advocates wanted to address the issue. It has now moved to being very bipartisan. It came through unanimous consent in the committee the last time. I am hoping we can get this done. Both sides of the aisle recognize the importance of fixing that ninth circuit court decision.
▶ 0:46:15Sen. Daines: I want to talk about in april, secretary rowlands expanded the forest service to use emergency action authority and it reduces red and allows the forest service to expedite catastrophic -- fighting the catastrophic fires. The forests are in crisis with drought, overgrowth destroying the health of the forest. Can you speak to the ground work in the forest service has been able to do with the expanded emergency authority?
▶ 0:46:45Mr. Schultz: Thanks for the question. The authority expanded that and previously it was 20 or 30 million acres and now we are looking at 112 million acres across the country at risk for catastrophic fire, insect and disease. It helps us to get work done quicker on the ground. We are using it in region one and six and five. Those authorities are moving forward.
▶ 0:47:11Sen. Daines: Thank you.
▶ 0:47:15Sen. Heinrich: You have talked recently about how your budget is constrained because you need to pay out accrued vacation time for the 5000 forest service employees who opted into the deferred resignation program, basically 5000 people that were paid not to do work in the forests. Which programs are being affected this year because of the need to pay out that leave?
▶ 0:47:41Mr. Schultz: We are using primarily ira funds to pay those out. They are funds that are being used for that.
▶ 0:47:49Sen. Heinrich: So it had no impact on the decision to zero of the state and volunteer fire assistance program?
▶ 0:47:58Mr. Schultz: No, those funds were not used to directly and not directly earmarked for the funding.
▶ 0:48:06Sen. Heinrich: You told the senate appropriations committee that the forest service would be with clete releasing the fy 25 funds for these programs for state and volunteer fire assistance for now we are hearing that states have been told to prepare to receive zero funding this year. Is that correct?
▶ 0:48:25Mr. Schultz: You are correct in my testimony was. What we are telling states, we don't have an answer just yet could we are not telling them they are not to get it.
▶ 0:48:37Sen. Heinrich: What I would say is that states need that funding. That is an example of a successful partnership. If we don't that funding, that is not shared responsibility, it is advocating -- add -- abdicating responsibility.
▶ 0:49:02Sen. Heinrich: Not everyone has that capacity at the state level at the time when their buses are being decimated by medicaid cuts thanks to the big whatever bill. I would think very seriously about our responsibility to continue to maintain positive relationships with those estates and meet the federal response ability. Do you have any thoughts?
▶ 0:49:24Mr. Schultz: Your sentiments have been reflected by the state foresters. We are aware of their concerns and taking them into consideration.
▶ 0:49:36Sen. Heinrich: Last year the forest service predicted it would accomplish 4 million acres of hazardous fuels reduction in 2025. You are three choristers through the fiscal year, what is your number right now?
▶ 0:49:50Mr. Schultz: I don't have that number but I will get it to you.
▶ 0:49:54Sen. Heinrich: I think I have the number and you can tell me if I'm wrong. It is about 1.7 million acres, so not even 50% of the way towards our goal despite the fact that we are almost through the fiscal year.
▶ 0:50:12Sen. Heinrich: One of the things we agree on in this committee is we would like to see fuel reduction as a way to deal with fire risks and yet we are abysmally behind our goals. We have 5000 fewer people working for the forest service now and many on the committee are worried that the current budget is a recipe for more trees burned and fewer trees cut.
▶ 0:50:44Sen. Heinrich: What would you say to my constituents who are worried that this budget blueprint is going to result in fewer hazardous fuels being treated?
▶ 0:50:52Mr. Schultz: What I would say is that overall, we are still going to maintain the fuels program as we have done. This budget transfers the program to the department of interior so that work would be done in the future by the department of interior. We would be working with the department of interior to accomplish those objectives. The intent, we have the same amount of funding.
▶ 0:51:19Mr. Schultz: It doesn't shift for fuel, it just shifts from forest service to the department of interior. The intent was still be to accomplish the goals.
▶ 0:51:26Sen. Heinrich: So the firefighter efforts are shifted to interior, would hazardous fuels treatments go with them?
▶ 0:51:34Mr. Schultz: Yes, sir. The funding for that program does transfer to interiors and the large bulk would transfer with that program.
▶ 0:51:43Sen. Heinrich: When are we going to get a detailed blueprint of what this new firefighting approach is going to look like?
▶ 0:51:59Mr. Schultz: We have been requested through executive order within the next 90 days to develop a plan that would identify the structure of this. That is something we just started discussions internally with the department of interiors. We will meet the timelines established in the executive order. In 90 days we will have a plan.
▶ 0:52:15Sen. Heinrich: Irrespective of how long it takes to put the plan together, I think there are many of us who are more concerned about the adequacy of that plan before we start making budgetary decisions.
▶ 0:52:37Sen. Heinrich: I am very open to different ways of organizing how we fight fires on our national forests and public lands, but I want to see the plan because people's lives and livelihoods are at stake. We have to get that right.
▶ 0:52:54Sen. Heinrich: And irrespective of whether the white house wants it in two weeks or 90 days, I know that members of this committee are going to want to see the details and know this has actually been thought through, unlike some of the early decisions about letting people go who are critical to the management of our public lands.
▶ 0:53:26Sen. Heinrich: >> tom, good to see you. Are you at? I'm sorry, the chairman called on me.
▶ 0:53:39Chair Lee: I'm sorry. I have it on my card. Senator cassidy.
▶ 0:53:45Sen. Cassidy: When I speak to mike shares back home, they are providing law enforcement within the forest. There will be people who will go for recreation and somebody gets drunk and causes a problem and it is they who are providing the services. They are not really getting compensated for that.
▶ 0:54:12Sen. Cassidy: So the majority of which is owned by the federal government is providing that sort of service. I am told that the agents that are there are merely there to make sure that somebody is not harvesting a tree which they shouldn't harvest or dig something out of the ground and take it away but if there is a fistfight, they don't go and break it up but the shares are not being compensated. I'm sure this is true elsewhere.
▶ 0:54:42Sen. Cassidy: Is there anything in the budget that will help the expense of law enforcement being effectively outsourced to the local community?
▶ 0:54:50Mr. Schultz: We have approximately 300 law enforcement officers around the country.
▶ 0:54:59Sen. Cassidy: I am told they don't break up fights but keep people from illegally harvesting like digging a plant and taking it away.
▶ 0:55:04Mr. Schultz: I do not think that is wholly accurate. Our law enforcement officers and investors -- investigators do deal with trespassers and firestarter investigations and the also address law enforcement issues in the forest.
▶ 0:55:20Sen. Cassidy: If you have 300 with as much land as you have, that is not very many. They are stretched more than thin.
▶ 0:55:25Mr. Schultz: They are stretched thin but they do cooperate with local law enforcement and we have different agreements. It could be county level, local lever, we have reciprocity and there is assistance provided in some cases. There are some instances where there are charges that we don't typically assess. You are talking about some criminal charges if they would be assessed typically by local law enforcement.
▶ 0:55:49Sen. Cassidy: They are also having to handle the expense of providing the services so what is being done to compensate? Nothing is being done to compensate right now so how do we address that.
▶ 0:56:08Mr. Schultz: That is something we need to follow-up with you on. We will talk with our law enforcement.
▶ 0:56:17Sen. Cassidy: I would appreciate this. They are rural and particularly if 80% of the county is absorbed by the forest through the tax base, the tax base is not adequate to support. Some major issues, if you could follow up on that, that would be great. There are also logging activities that take place. Some of my small contractors feel like they get elbowed out by the big guys.
▶ 0:56:46Sen. Cassidy: And these are family-owned businesses, important for the economic vitality. The big guys are someplace else and they come and leave. Is there any understanding of the need to maintain a local economy and the county or parish in which the federal government owns most of the land? If so, does it include and how does it include making sure you contract the smaller businesses?
▶ 0:57:14Mr. Schultz: We have small business association program, if you are less than 500 employees, specific provisions in the timber sales that we have to forward so many to small businesses and they are bid out.
▶ 0:57:29Sen. Cassidy: That is the sale but does it include the logging?
▶ 0:57:31Mr. Schultz: You can also be in logging and timber sale. So they would qualify as a small business for the other opportunity we have is provisions that allow direct sales to companies to logging contractors at last than $2000. We can change that and adjust that. There is the ability to increase direct sales to small operators, small volumes that they could buy those directly.
▶ 0:58:02Mr. Schultz: There are a couple programs that we do have that would give some of the smaller operators a greater advantage in terms of buying some of the wood.
▶ 0:58:11Sen. Cassidy: Is some folks end up not being aware of this, and I can connect back with you?
▶ 0:58:16Mr. Schultz: Yes.
▶ 0:58:19Chair Lee: Senator cantwell.
▶ 0:58:24Sen. Cantwell: I want to thank you, chief schultz, for being here. I want to take a moment with my colleague from idaho to acknowledge the sacrifice and bravery of the firefighters in the idaho area. My condolences go out to their families and to this community. We want to remember these individuals and again thank the firefighters all across the nation.
▶ 0:58:53Sen. Cantwell: Chief schultz, the season is upon us. My staff probably has our most recent charts that show how bad the prediction is for this summer. Each month it gets more dramatic .
▶ 0:59:07Sen. Cantwell: The challenge that we face is we want to prepare and I think as the nation sees practically 20 coverage of what natural disasters can do to a community, one of the best things you can do is cash resources early and and -- you can do is catch resources early.
▶ 0:59:38Sen. Cantwell: I think people are probably asking questions why if you thought you would have fled season in texas, why didn't you you have more resources earlier. Now we know this is the outlook for us. My colleague and I, the whole state will be covered in red. As I fly home every week, I see less and less snow on the cascades and I'm thinking this is a challenge because you will have dry conditions.
▶ 1:00:06Sen. Cantwell: Where is the resource for the state? I think it has been already approved. Why aren't we releasing the funds that go to the community so that they can best prepare for the fire season?
▶ 1:00:24Mr. Schultz: Thanks for the question. We were talking about that previously. We are evaluating that right now could we have had feedback from the state foresters and are working on the issue and have not made a determination that is something that is being evaluated.
▶ 1:00:45Sen. Cantwell: So when do you expect that to go out?
▶ 1:00:49Mr. Schultz: So we expect there to be a determination in the next several weeks would be my expectation. We cannot commit that is for sure going to go out but it is still under discussion.
▶ 1:01:04Sen. Cantwell: We want to follow process so that the forest service is working with others to get the resources into those communities and do the work that they need to do. Same question about lcwf?
▶ 1:01:23Mr. Schultz: We are looking at the priorities and looking at the 25 budget to make sure the work we are doing is in alignment with the administration. It is being evaluated right now and we are still.
▶ 1:01:39Sen. Cantwell: But if those are submitted and approved by congress, we played a role in wanting to go forward. Why is omb requiring a review of lw cf projects?
▶ 1:01:54Mr. Schultz: We are looking at all of the programs and looking at alignment with the priorities of the administration.
▶ 1:02:03Sen. Cantwell: What does that mean? That you are changing the process that has been the practice for 50 or 60 years?
▶ 1:02:09Mr. Schultz: We are not creating a new process but what we are saying is given the authorities and I think the language is the president is acting with this -- within his authority to provide spending within the amounts provided by congress. We are looking at that right now.
▶ 1:02:28Sen. Cantwell: On the roadless rule, I love my colleague from idaho. But he did implement the roadless rule in his estate which he got the people together in he got it done and it made the right decisions, or he make a lot of decisions. That is the prerogative. That was the way it worked.
▶ 1:02:58Sen. Cantwell: The state could step up and do the work or you could have somebody else. In this case, he did the work. Are you aware that it was found that 80% of all wildfires are human caused and 95% of those are ignited within a half-mile of a road? Mother reasons why the roadless rule was good for some areas is because we are not having roads all over the place and we are not igniting fires all over the place.
▶ 1:03:26Sen. Cantwell: Do you have an assessment of the cost of rescinding the roadless rule when you might be building roads into pristine areas and causing more challenges?
▶ 1:03:36Mr. Schultz: I think the bigger concern isn't building roads in the areas but we have 24.5 million acres of the roughly 60 million acres of roadless that is within either in or within a mile. I mentioned this earlier that there is much roadless area that has roads in it.
▶ 1:04:00Mr. Schultz: I was on the helena lewis and clarke and some roadless areas do have roads.
▶ 1:04:10Sen. Cantwell: The question is do we want to continue that process. Everybody wants is to -- we want to maintain our forests and have recreational areas and invest in the resources to have the public go enjoy those recreational areas. I personally don't want to sell public lands.
▶ 1:04:30Sen. Cantwell: But at the same time, you are saying, let's not build roads in places that we don't need to build roads just because one or two people have a great idea that is what they want to do, let's set aside the areas that we think we shouldn't be building roads there. That was the whole point of the rule was to make those decisions. My colleague was successful in making those decisions and prioritizing that. Now if you are saying the urban interface is an issue, I agree.
▶ 1:05:01Sen. Cantwell: The wildland urban interface should be debated every day of the week now because what we are finding is me almost had literally a fire approach at. There were -- reach spokane. People aren't seeing the next event is going to be something that goes all the way to a major urban city and could cause damage and that is what happened outside of spokane last summer.
▶ 1:05:33Sen. Cantwell: I think we are all in but you and I will probably have to continue this dialogue about what best to do to approach this issue. >> thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you to my friend from washington. I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that whole situation with the fireflies -- firefighters being killed.
▶ 1:05:59Sen. Cantwell: When you add to this, I would be remiss if I didn't say thank you to washington who responded with hundreds of law enforcement people to address the situation. We are thankful for that. Our heart goes out to the people. Tom, I am proud of you. You are the first idaho and to be chief since tom was when I was governor.
▶ 1:06:25Sen. Cantwell: We graduated in the same class from the university of idaho, a little before your time. Dale did a great job in helping me. My collie get ahead of me on the roadless but she knew I would be bringing it up. And that was really effort between us and idaho on how this works is george w.
▶ 1:06:50Sen. Cantwell: Bush invited the states to look at the roadless areas and come up with a plan for their state could we were, colorado did some but we got the roadless rule and I am very proud of it. The other states did not do and I had people advise me I shouldn't get into it because it was controversial.
▶ 1:07:18Sen. Cantwell: Nobody knows how many roadless lawsuits there have been, hundreds made it into the thousands. Every time the republicans are in, democrats file and every time democrats are in the republicans file. Nothing ever gets done. The good news, and I think the proof is in the putting on the roadless rule is that since that has been in for the last two decades, we haven't had one loss -- lawsuit. There have been a lot but everyone has excluded idaho.
▶ 1:07:48Sen. Cantwell: I think the lawsuits, it is a great deal for the lawyers but wastes a lot of time and energy and everything else. The way I went about it was when the federal government suggested that we and the states have a look at it, they gave us no parameters and I said, we are going to put together a committee that everybody is represented, the loggers, industry representatives,
▶ 1:08:22Sen. Cantwell: Recreational users, which is not one bucket, as you know for the motorized recreation users are different from the wilderness type recreational users. We brought all of those people to the table and really it took the millions of acres that we had and broke them into various -- we have five different categories.
▶ 1:08:44Sen. Cantwell: Because the world this is, as you say, there is roadless that have roads in them and they are all over the board and they were the ones left over when they put the holderness groups lands into the wilderness area and the ones they couldn't reach an agreement on and set them aside. Nobody ever looked at them.
▶ 1:09:06Sen. Cantwell: My pitch to you his we are in the process of and have been for a little while because it has been so successful, looking at it and putting in a statute as opposed to just bite rule because over the last two decades, the forest service, not you, but people in the forest service have taken a run at dismantling the idaho wilderness rule.
▶ 1:09:35Sen. Cantwell: Roadless properties are managed by a committee that is appointed by the governor, so it is federal land but we have very strict parameters on the five different themes that are there and this group manages it. Within that, we have a number of small towns, as you suggested, senator cantwell, interface is a problem.
▶ 1:10:02Sen. Cantwell: What the roadless committee in idaho has done is they have focused on these areas and done treatment plans around these towns so they can stop a fire as it goes through. One of these things gets going at 10:00 in the morning with the wind comes up, but you have to stay away from the fire and not attack it. You can't control it.
▶ 1:10:24Sen. Cantwell: On the other hand, if you have treated property, that is ones that have had sensible harvest on them, it is really a good thing. What we are going to look at is trying to get this. The forest service, within the forest service there are some who hate the fact that the state has a say in managing these c1 this is not uncommon or us.
▶ 1:10:56Sen. Cantwell: But we can deal with this and it has been a tremendous success so I'm going to enlist your help. I always hope that other states would take a hold of this. It was a collaborative effort. The minute it was done, one of the environmental groups lawsuit , which I had tried to get to the table. They filed suit immediately.
▶ 1:11:26Sen. Cantwell: We stuck together all the way through the litigation which went on to the obama administration. They let us in idaho direct that lawsuit. It was approved by the district judge. It was approved by the ninth circuit. We got it.
▶ 1:11:56Sen. Cantwell: We would like to see it statutorily. We have been working on it for some time. I highly recommend it for any state that doesn't have it. To do stuff with the ground in keeping with the various things. Thank you.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. Cantwell: Those of you from states with large federal holdings, I strongly recommend the approach we did. Tom, thank you for your service.
▶ 1:12:28Chair Lee: Thank you. Senator hickenlooper, you are up next.
▶ 1:12:35Senator Hickenlooper: Thank you, Mr. chair. My colleague from idaho, I appreciate your work and we share a lot of that history. I got elected in 2010. Took a big part of my first couple of years to make sure hunters and anglers and timber merchants and you go down the list.
▶ 1:13:07Senator Hickenlooper: Everyone signed off on that rule and it was a remarkable achievement and to my knowledge I don't think it has ever been litigated since. We moved heaven and earth to make sure everybody gets to the table. It doesn't solve the problem.
▶ 1:13:26Senator Hickenlooper: The problem writ large is that we have a lot of people in this country that want to live in the woods and experience wildlife and be closer to wildlife and we see more and more people living in that wildlife, urban interface. I'm deeply concerned about our ability to keep them safe.
▶ 1:13:55Senator Hickenlooper: It will accelerate our ability to allow ecological thinning of the forest to make sure that the forests aren't so vulnerable, but the cuts that look like they're going to come through your budget in terms of forest fires -- fire fighters, sorry -- really concerns me.
▶ 1:14:23Senator Hickenlooper: We have a whole bunch of iconic views of people that people visit as every year we are worried about how do we keep people safe when fires get out of control. Visitors who don't know their way around and are going to get caught up in a place where they will have their entire summer disrupted or become in danger.
▶ 1:14:55Senator Hickenlooper: With the budget cuts, my first question is, how are you going to keep coloradans and people from all across the country safe?
▶ 1:15:04Mr. Schultz: Senator, thanks for your question. The first response is that the 2026 budget does not reduce our firefighting capacity. There is no reduction of the firefighting budget. We have been talking about reductions in the state and private components.
▶ 1:15:33Mr. Schultz: That is the piece that is I've testified previously, that would be shifting from the forest service to the states to cover those costs.
▶ 1:15:42Sen. Hickenlooper: Right, what I see again and again is more costs shifted to the states and local areas going through their own budget struggles right now.
▶ 1:15:56Sen. Hickenlooper: I also understand that we need to both streamline our permitting and all of our financial services regarding the wildlife crisis. In what other plays are you promoting resilience in terms of forest fires?
▶ 1:16:20Mr. Schultz: I think a big part of what we look at, suppression is just the back end of this. It is using mechanical tending -- thinning, timber sales to create resilience.
▶ 1:16:38Mr. Schultz: One of the big things I mentioned earlier that congress did back in december is you passed a disaster supplemental and there was funding for sierra pacific so those are some of the innovative approaches we are looking at to partner with industry and the states. We are having a discussion with the state of colorado looking at a similar type of arrangement.
▶ 1:17:08Mr. Schultz: We have also had discussions about recreation. This is an area of the state has expressed interest in managing that site. We are cooperating from the states to look at how to address some of those issues.
▶ 1:17:23Sen. Hickenlooper: I appreciate that. Your budget proposes a land transfer initiative to right size federal land. Coloradans and I can't tell you how many tens of thousands of notices we have do not want public lands put up for sale, certainly not at any scale.
▶ 1:17:45Sen. Hickenlooper: We are ok recognizing certain small, isolated areas and circumstances may be for workforce housing or something like that in a community, but I think county commissioners, town councils, mayors, republicans, democrats all called us, wrote us, said do not sell our public lands at scale.
▶ 1:18:13Sen. Hickenlooper: Hopefully you will listen to local governments and public citizens to recognize that that is not a constructive direction to take for the forest service.
▶ 1:18:24Mr. Schultz: There has been a big focus on housing. The administration is concerned that there is limiting opportunities when communities are surrounded by federal lands, so we did a 99 your least -- lisa white river forest. That will be leased for housing. We are looking in opportunities in oregon and idaho as well.
▶ 1:18:50Mr. Schultz: We also are looking at other ways and this can be long-term business where we can encourage communities that want to expand. Ski resorts where there is not enough housing. We are not talking about going into the backcountry. We are going to go into admin sites.
▶ 1:19:13Sen. Hickenlooper: Ok, I'm out of time but when you use language like rightsizing the federal estate, that notion of scale that that language creates is of great concern to a lot of people so be mindful. Thank you.
▶ 1:19:29Chair Lee: Senator cortez masto.
▶ 1:19:33Senator Cortez Masto: Thank you for being here. Can I ask as we are talking about the combination of service and firefighting crew along with the interior combination combining the existing wildland fire programs, when this happens, what involvement will the U.S. forest service still have?
▶ 1:20:05Mr. Schultz: Senator cortez masto, right now we haven't figured that plan yet. There are 90 days to come up with the plan we know the forest service is projected to move. The forest service would be a component of that. How that is structured, we don't know yet. We would still have a role, it would just be within the unified fire service.
▶ 1:20:34Sen. Cortez Masto: We want the specifics obviously because of our states. If you would be willing to share that with us, that would be very helpful.
▶ 1:20:43Mr. Schultz: Yes, ma'am. Right now we have that 90 day plan.
▶ 1:20:47Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. How many forest service in nevada and the lake tahoe basin were let go since the beginning of the administration?
▶ 1:20:57Mr. Schultz: We can get those numbers to you.
▶ 1:20:59Sen. Cortez Masto: I appreciate that. We know the for service has long struggled to retain fire fighters. I was upset to learn that the trump administration scrapped the women in wildfire boot camps program because the administration deemed them unnecessary d.e.I. Initiatives. These were programs offered to women to learn the basics of wildland firefighting.
▶ 1:21:31Sen. Cortez Masto: Please explain to me why when we need wildland firefighters we are scrapping programs that provide training to both men and women to be in this fight to help us address these fires that are happening all the time now and we need fire fighters, why was that program scrapped?
▶ 1:21:52Mr. Schultz: Senator cortez masto, we have looked at everything we've got. We are looking at we have training for all firefighters, not just women. Instead of focusing solely on women, we have numerous opportunities to train fire fighters not just focusing on women.
▶ 1:22:19Mr. Schultz: That was the thought behind that is that there are still ample opportunities without just singling out certain entities.
▶ 1:22:25Sen. Cortez Masto: Right, but this wasn't really singling out women. This was providing programs to fire fighters whether they are women. Those programs should be supported. We need all hands on deck in the west during this fire season. Why pick and choose?
▶ 1:22:47Mr. Schultz: I agree that we need all hands on tech.
▶ 1:22:56Sen. Cortez Masto: I think it is a poor use of the administration's discretion. Let me ask you this, northern nevada is one of my state's most cherished places left by hunters, outdoor enthusiasts, recreation tribes, local community leaders, I can't explain to you enough that it goes back to what you have heard in the west.
▶ 1:23:23Sen. Cortez Masto: Everybody in my state coming together I don't care what party you are, everybody coming together to protect the oregon mountains from spurious oil and gas activity that took place there a few years ago. This committee previously approved my bill to permanently prohibit oil and gas development following a 2019 finding by the forest service that no leasing should occur there due to the very low potential to develop oil and gas resources in the
▶ 1:23:54Sen. Cortez Masto: Area and the substitute public opposition. The biden administration announced it was establishing a withdrawal process from the ruby mountain area however this administration reversed these protections for the rubies and the only formal notification I received was by reading a usda press release ended stated, the agency canceled two mineral
▶ 1:24:25Sen. Cortez Masto: Leasing withdrawals that would help boost production of critical minerals, which I was told pertained to the ruby mountains and in new mexico. Nevadans don't want drilling in the ruby mountains. I'm curious, what production of critical minerals does the forest service expect to develop in the ruby mountains?
▶ 1:24:48Mr. Schultz: Senator cortez masto, first of all, on future communications I will communicate with you directly.
▶ 1:24:57Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you.
▶ 1:24:57Mr. Schultz: Typically what happens with leasing minerals, the forest service isn't out there trying to basically promote a certain activity or not but it would be made available if someone deemed there was a resource, that would be available for leasing. I think that was the intent of this.
▶ 1:25:15Sen. Cortez Masto: It has already been done, that is my point. It seems everything that has been done in the past is being ignored because it was done under a previous administration. It makes no sense. We are wasting the resources of your men and women that work for you because this administration thinks they have to start from scratch when they should be looking at what has happened in the past and not waste everybody's time.
▶ 1:25:44Sen. Cortez Masto: What does this administration have plans to do to open ruby mountains for oil and gas drilling? You are telling me you are willing to do that as well even though we have already gone through this process! This is groundhog day! We are repeating this over again. What is going on?
▶ 1:26:00Mr. Schultz: There is nothing going on other than we want to make these lands available for lease.
▶ 1:26:05Sen. Cortez Masto: They already were available and your administration said there is no oil and gas available here, it is low potential and the community doesn't want it. Why would you start this process over again? Why can't you learn from the past? Is there something that we are not aware of that would help my constituents why this administration wants to repeat the past?
▶ 1:26:26Mr. Schultz: I think the short answer is just that we want to make it available so if there is an interest we want to evaluate that.
▶ 1:26:35Sen. Cortez Masto: I appreciate you and I'm not going to belabor this. I've gone over my time and I think you for the indulgence. I look forward to talking with you about this.
▶ 1:26:45Chair Lee: Thank you so much. Cheap schultz, thank you for being here today. This has been enlightening and informative just as your service has been encouraging. On some of these issues that we have discussed is a reminder of the fact that the states and tribes are incredible partners, they are indispensable really in that they are the ones on the ground living in communities that depend on these forests
▶ 1:27:19Chair Lee: Whose lives are inextricably linked. More authority, more involvement. To set a course for the proper management of these lands, particularly in the ways that affect states and counties. I know that utah is really looking forward to working with you to expand these partnerships and I know my state is not alone in that.
▶ 1:27:49Chair Lee: As we wrap up, I will remind members that members may submit questions for the record until 6:00 p.m. Tonight and they will have until 6:00 p.m. One week from today in order to submit any statements that they want to be included in the record. With that, we stand adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]