▶ 0:16:20>> I think our nominees for being here. Thank you for your willingness to serve the country in a time where -- the committee will hear from crystal kerry, committed to addressing the backlog of cases left by the previous administration, refocusing the office to issue guidance on how to comply with the law.
▶ 0:16:52Her extensive experience a former field agent and official at the office of appeals is great qualification. The committee is also considering brittany p anuccio, she will work to confirm eeoc leading to a better environment for workers.
▶ 0:17:19Her strong record as a prosecutor will help the eeoc continue robust enforcement efforts under this administration. The committee will consider Dr. brian christine to be assistant secretary of the department of health and human services. Dr. christine will play a crucial role making it more open, collaborative to the american people. His experience is an asset to the trump administration as it works to make america healthy.
▶ 0:17:50Thanks to all of our nominees for appearing before the committee.
▶ 0:17:54Sen. Sanders: I want to thank the nominees for being with us today. I am strongly opposed to the three nominees we are considering this morning.
▶ 0:18:08Sen. Sanders: Let me begin with the nomination of crystal carey, let us be clear, this nomination would be unnecessary if president trump had not fired the most prounion general counsel of the national labor relations board on january 27.
▶ 0:18:31Sen. Sanders: It would have a quorum today if president trump was not illegally removing a member of this independent board on that same exact day. The mission of the nlrb is to vigorously advance the policies of the national labor relations act to ensure workers could freely express their wishes regarding union representation protecting workers fundamental right to act together for their
▶ 0:19:01Sen. Sanders: Mutual aid or protection. That is not my definition of what it is about. That is what the nlrb says on its own website. At a time of massive income and wealth inequality, 60% of our people live in paycheck-to-paycheck, we need a functioning nlrb and an aggressive general counsel who vigorously enforce that mission and protect the constitutional
▶ 0:19:32Sen. Sanders: Right of workers to form unions and collectively bargain for better wages and benefits. Millions of workers want to do that. Because of the legal action on part of the corporate world they are unable to exercise their constitutional right. As a result of president trump's actions the nlrb has been effectively shut down.
▶ 0:19:56Sen. Sanders: It means that this is now much harder for workers to form a union and improve their standard of living. During a union election corporate losses -- bosses could fire workers who vote to join a union. Corporate ceos have free reign to illegally intimidate prounion workers without recourse.
▶ 0:20:21Sen. Sanders: Corporations could decide not to bargain in good faith with union workers or signed a first contract. Because of the nlrb being dysfunctional workers have no recourse. President trump's decision has already had disastrous consequences. Workers at a whole foods grocery store in philadelphia voted 130-120 two joined the united commercial health workers union.
▶ 0:20:53Sen. Sanders: They have ignored this victory and refused to market with union workers as required by law. Without a functioning nlrb, whole foods cannot be held accountable for its illegal behavior. That has happened in chicago, similarly it has happened at mass general brigham hospital where 88% of primary care physicians voted to join a union but the hospital is challenging this union victory.
▶ 0:21:23Sen. Sanders: It remains to be seen whether they are going to be able to do what they voted to do. Replacing the most effective nlrb general counsel with someone who has spent her career representing some of the most notorious union busters in america will not make the situation any better. It will only make it worse.
▶ 0:21:44Sen. Sanders: Crystal carey is a corporate attorney who has represented amazon, dollar general, and many other corporations who have worked relentlessly. That is the nominee for general counsel of the nlrb. Amazon is working overtime to abolish the nlrb.
▶ 0:22:09Sen. Sanders: This company absurdly believes that this independent board that was established by congress 90 years ago is unconstitutional. We are also considering the nomination of brittany panuccio, she has also represented corporate interests. At a time when workers want to join and are benefiting from joining unions, they are not doing the job workers need.
▶ 0:22:43Chair Cassidy: We are joined today by crystal carey, president trump's nominee for general counsel of the national labor relations board. A former nlrb field agent at the office of appeals. She is a graduate of the university of georgia and old dominion university. She earned her jd from pennsylvania state university.
▶ 0:23:11Chair Cassidy: We look forward to see -- never mind, we will see.
▶ 0:23:21Ms. Carey: Dr. cassidy, ranking member sanders, other community members, thank you for the opportunity to testified today. There's no greater honor I could imagine them being considered for the general counsel position as I have spent almost my entire legal career focused on labor relations matters and practicing at and before a national labor relations board.
▶ 0:23:49Ms. Carey: My husband, our three daughters, and my mom are seated behind me. I'm lucky to have them cheering me on. I was born in athens, georgia and raised in franklin county. My parents divorced when I was two and my mom made a decision to live closer to family.
▶ 0:24:09Ms. Carey: That included her parents, my papa, grandma, my late uncle, a truck driver and army veteran and my uncle jr. My mom always worked multiple jobs.
▶ 0:24:37Ms. Carey: Most of my childhood was spent in a single wide trailer on my grandparents property. I recorded my homework on cassette tapes so my mom could check it on her way to various jobs. I watch jeopardy and real fortune -- wheel of fortune nightly with my grandparents.
▶ 0:25:00Ms. Carey: Thanks to george's dual enrollment program I attended emmanuel college and earned my associates degree one year after graduating from high school. I transferred to the university of georgia where I completed bachelors degrees. It was in my final semester at ug a that I met my now husband of 23 years. I attended old dominion university and obtained my masters degree in applied sociology.
▶ 0:25:29Ms. Carey: Subsequent military transfers allowed me the opportunity to attend florida coastal school of law and penn state dickinson. During my final semester I participated in the D.C. program . I interned with the national labor relations board region five office. This was my first true experience with labor law and I loved it. I love the people with whom I worked, the members of the public I was able to help and the sometimes feisty interactions.
▶ 0:26:00Ms. Carey: It was an agency that at its heart help people. After passing the bar I was offered a position there and happily accepted. While working at region five I investigated labor practice and litigated. Most of the cases I handled were filed against employers and ultimately most cases settled. One of the biggest cases I worked on bombarding allegations and unfair labor practice strike involving 50 members of the teamsters local 639.
▶ 0:26:33Ms. Carey: The supreme court agreed with the position that the company had acted unlawfully and awarded $1.1 million in back pay to those employees. I will never forget and have never forgotten sitting with those witnesses days on end and hearing the impact of that case on their family. I spent three years in the office of appeals. I did appeals for parties who felt their cases should have gone differently. One stands out to me in particular.
▶ 0:27:05Ms. Carey: A case was dismissed alleging employees have been unlawfully coerced organizing campaigns. The allegation was employees were promised green cards for them and their family members in exchange for votes. The promise came from the union, not the employer. I argued the appeal should be sustained because the employees testified they were coerced and believed they would get those green cards if they voted for the union. My argument was not adopted.
▶ 0:27:35Ms. Carey: The promises were brushed aside even though the employees didn't know that. I will also never forget that case. My final three years were spent on the board side serving a senior staff counsel. I reviewed exceptions, presented arguments and wrote decisions. I left the board and 2018 to join the team at morgan lewis.
▶ 0:28:00Ms. Carey: Negotiations, training, counseling employers on whether and how to ensure their operations or potential actions comply with the law. It was established as an remains an independent agency. It was passed to promote labor stability. There cannot be stability in labor relations when there is not stability in the law.
▶ 0:28:22Ms. Carey: If confirmed, I commit to respecting long-standing board precedent to not putting the desire to clarify board of law over the resolution of a case that would otherwise infect you wait. To apply the laws written and intended by congress, the training and committed to the training and support that the hard-working employees and ensuring they have the resources they need to infect you wait the act.
▶ 0:28:51Ms. Carey: The nlra touches the lives of millions of american workers and businesses large and small. Across every sector of the economy I commit to faithfully serving the mission of the national labor relations board and the people the act protects. Thank you for having me here today and considering my nomination. I truly see it as a privilege to be here and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:29:18Sen. Tuberville: Thank you very much, it's an honor to introduce my friend and constituent, Dr. brian christine. I'm thrilled to welcome his wife, sister, thank you for being here. Dr. christine is a board-certified neurologist the surgeon with 38 years serving patients in birmingham, alabama. A recognized medical expert, Dr.
▶ 0:29:49Sen. Tuberville: Christine is known for demonstrating advanced surgical techniques advanced -- nationally and internationally. Decorated -- born to a decorated combat veteran, he will bring a lifelong dedication to service and american values to this role. Dr. christine attended college in georgia. What is going on here? And earned his medical degree from emory university.
▶ 0:30:19Sen. Tuberville: He moved to birmingham for his residency and dedicated his career to caring for the men and women of alabama. He supported local law enforcement by volunteering as a surgeon with tactical police units. If confirmed, Dr. christine will oversee critical health programs, offices, U.S. public services where he has pledged to accept the mission and lead with eight street medicine approach.
▶ 0:30:49Sen. Tuberville: Addressing chronic disease such as diabetes, hypertension, he is particularly focused on expanding access to primary care and improving health in rural and underserved communities. With leadership experience, he is well-equipped to serve as assistant secretary for health. I hope my fellow colleagues will support his nomination. Dr. christine.
▶ 0:31:20Dr. Christine: Thank you for your kind words in the service you bring to our nation and the service you have and will render. Chairman cassidy, ranking member sanders, it is truly a pleasure to be here to be the nominee for the assistant secretary of health by president trump.
▶ 0:31:44Dr. Christine: I want to thank president trump and secretary kennedy for the trust they have put in me to help with the mission to make america healthy again. With me is my wife. She is my rock, best friend, towards all that is good and just. Watching at home is my daughter. A mother of two beautiful little girls.
▶ 0:32:09Dr. Christine: My sister also a special education sister, my older brother a judge is supporting me from his home state of florida. One of the earliest times I could recall as a child I wanted to be a physician. I was blessed to attend one of the best medical schools in the world, emory university in atlanta.
▶ 0:32:30Dr. Christine: I possess the fire in my heart when I took the hippocratic oath 34 years ago to treat my patients with compassion and act with integrity. I trained as a surgeon at the university of alabama completing my residency obtaining board certification and have practiced in alabama for 30 years. The vast majority of my patients are prostate cancer survivors.
▶ 0:33:01Dr. Christine: We treated patients not just from the united states but europe, asia, canada, south america. My practice in men's health is recognized within the united states and internationally as a true center of excellence. Because of the support of my partners, the assistance of my surgical team and those surgeons who have meant toward me along the way. A surgical innovator and magical educator.
▶ 0:33:33Dr. Christine: I want you to understand that if confirmed the perspective that I will bring to the department of health and human services is shaped by a career spent in day to day patient care. The conversations with patients and their loved ones in the emergency room or at the bedside. That is where I practice and that is what I know.
▶ 0:34:01Dr. Christine: If it is to be successful must have a leadership position and works on main street. Every workday for the past 34 years I have interacted with patients every day. I have heard doctors and nurses.
▶ 0:34:20Dr. Christine: Every day the same health care providers and patients have voiced concerns regarding limitations placed by insurance providers, hospital administrators, rising drug costs, and a number of physicians and nurses. Understanding the link I provide to actual patient centered health care, I sit before you today to understand there is a crisis. This has real-world effects.
▶ 0:34:51Dr. Christine: Health care providers, nurses, physicians, health professionals are overworked. They are discouraged, they are retiring from active patient care. Nurses are the backbone of patient centered care in the united states. Over 50% report burnout. Nurse retirement rates are accelerating. An astounding 20% planned retirement in the next five years.
▶ 0:35:22Dr. Christine: Job dissatisfaction is at an all-time high. Many of us are fed up with a lack of control over patient care. A physician retirement team is accelerating. Senators, if we do not take this workforce crisis seriously and take action to address it, the shortage will not be in the thousands but it will number in the hundreds of thousands. Perhaps most importantly, the average american has come to distrust our health care system.
▶ 0:35:52Dr. Christine: This causes men and women to miss important cancer screenings and the follow-up of chronic diseases such as diabetes and hypertension. Worsening manageable conditions directly and unquestionably has led to early death, lost workforce production, accelerated health care costs for everyone. In the midst of this crisis I do see hope.
▶ 0:36:17Dr. Christine: My boots on the ground practice takes the pulse of americans figuratively and literally. What I see, what I hear is a feeling among so many that president trump in his administration are truly, truly focused on understanding chronic disease.
▶ 0:36:44Dr. Christine: Secretary kennedy's commitment to improving the quality of our food, promoting radical transparency. And tellingly since my nomination was announced hundreds, I'm speaking literally hundreds of physicians, nurses, patients, citizens I have not previously met have expressed a profound appreciation that the president wants a main street doctor in a leadership position.
▶ 0:37:15Dr. Christine: I will not come to washington for a job or to start a new career. I've had my career. I said I will come to execute a mission. That mission as part of the health and human services team will be a restore trust and confidence and health care in america to address the looming crisis of health-care care providers to work with you to eliminate our health care business and carry out any other part of that mission to make
▶ 0:37:45Dr. Christine: America healthier while always pursuing in america first agenda. I look forward to your questions and I asked god's blessings on each of you and your family.
▶ 0:37:54Chair Cassidy: I have been a little light on the hammer. Try and keep it within five minutes. I have been a little light. Testifying today is britney panuccio, as a prosecutor she will be a key voice at the commission.
▶ 0:38:16Chair Cassidy: She will work to enforce federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate against an employee because of a person's race, color, religion, sex, national origin, genetic information. She is currently an assistant U.S. attorney in the 11th circuit. Previously serving in the department of education, justice . She is a graduate of northwestern university interned at the eeoc while earning her jd from the pritzker school of law.
▶ 0:38:49Chair Cassidy: I thank you for joining us.
▶ 0:38:52Ms. Panuccio: I'm honored to appear here today to serve as a nominee as commissioner on the equal employment opportunity commission. I'm grateful to president trump for the opportunity to serve and contribute to the eeoc's work of preventing unlawful discrimination. I would like to thank and honor my family.
▶ 0:39:19Ms. Panuccio: First, thank you to my husband for the sacrifices he continues to make for me to be able to pursue a career in public service. I would not be here today without his support and wise counsel. He is a devoted father who is the light of our lives and for everyone's benefit is at home napping right now.
▶ 0:39:41Ms. Panuccio: Thank you to my parents, david and leslie for raising me to love god and for the innumerable sacrifices they made for their children. Through my parents I witnessed the blessings and challenges of owning a small business. My father worked tirelessly to provide his children with so many more opportunities than he had. My mother has shown me how to be a proverbs 31 woman and balance motherhood and a career.
▶ 0:40:10Ms. Panuccio: I strive to be a role model for my daughter as my mother is for me. Thank you to my brother and sister-in-law for their love and support. While in law school I interned at the chicago district office of the eeoc. This is a full circle moment for me to be here over a decade later as the president's nominee to be a commissioner.
▶ 0:40:35Ms. Panuccio: Congress has given the eeoc a critical mission, preventing and remedying our workplaces. This reflects foundational promises that all americans are inherently created equal and are entitled to equal treatment under the law. Americans have a right to be treated in the workplace as individuals, not as members of a particular race or group.
▶ 0:41:03Ms. Panuccio: To be judged on the content of their character, skills, abilities rather than the color of their skin or sex. These values have always been important to me. I have committed my career to civil rights, equal opportunity, and public service. After graduating from college I served as a teach for america core member teaching eighth grade at miami edison middle school.
▶ 0:41:30Ms. Panuccio: My service was rooted in the belief that all children, regardless of their zip code should have equal access to excellent education. After loss quite practice labor and employment law litigating cases involving a wide variety of laws including title vii of the civil rights act. I devoted most of my pro bono practice to representing a student with severe disabilities seeking reasonable accommodations from his public school. During the first trump administration I served at the U.S.
▶ 0:42:00Ms. Panuccio: Department of education at the U.S. department of civil rights and the office of the general counsel. I advised department officials of policy issues relating to discrimination laws and regulatory reform. I'm proud to have co-authored the 2018 title ix notice of composed rulemaking which was the precursor to the 2020 final rule the department enforces today. I currently serve as an assistant united states attorney in the southern district of florida.
▶ 0:42:33Ms. Panuccio: Our jurisdiction covers the same number hood -- neighborhood where I taught eighth grade so many years ago. I remember visiting one of my students after he was shot six times. Each day I worked to ensure my former students, their families, and neighbors could live, work, and go to school in a safe environment. I litigate and art of -- argue civil appeals to the U.S. court of appeals to the 11th circuit.
▶ 0:43:02Ms. Panuccio: These cases cover a broad subject matter. I also personally understand the importance of civil rights law's and equal opportunity. I was diagnosed with juvenile idiopathic arthritis. I have benefited from accommodations. I understand how simple it is to have two sets of textbooks to ensure a child has equal access to education.
▶ 0:43:31Ms. Panuccio: My interest in laws also stems from personal experience. While studying abroad in college in spain, I saw god's goodness even in the worst of times. That has given me multiple opportunities to change my opportunities into purpose. I will continue to passionately defend women's rights as a commissioner of the eeoc.
▶ 0:44:01Ms. Panuccio: My personal experience underscores the importance of preventing discrimination because the remedies the legal system provides, while important could only do so much to make a victim whole again. I am committed to the critical mission of preventing and remedying unlawful legislation. Thank you for considering my nomination. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:44:28Chair Cassidy: I will defer to senator tuberville to open with questions.
▶ 0:44:35Sen. Tuberville: I have never seen a deterioration of an institution like we have after covid. How will you try to put that back together? We desperately need some help in getting a positive attitude for hospitals and doctors back to the american people.
▶ 0:44:57Dr. Christine: Thank you for being here and your introduction. Thank you for meeting with me before today's hearing. The loss of trust we have seen emanating from the city of the worst I have seen in three decades of practice. They were led astray.
▶ 0:45:20Dr. Christine: We have to work, secretary kennedy's 100% committed to doing that, as is president trump. I have had to earn the trust of my patients allowing me to operate at them. I have the opportunity to communicate to patients and now hopefully to the american public at large.
▶ 0:45:47Dr. Christine: To approach them and give them a sense that what I am saying, what I'm telling is truly for the good of the country. I have had to do that for over 30 years. I believe we could bring that skill set to the office of the assistant secretary.
▶ 0:46:07Sen. Tuberville: The american people are tired of being lied to. The things we are finding out are detrimental to our health. We seem to overlook all of that. How do you plan to help the secretary with that?
▶ 0:46:23Dr. Christine: We know separate -- secretary kennedy is dedicated to remove toxins from our foods and make sure we all have access to clean water. That we focus on not just treating chronic disease but finding out what causes chronic disease, diabetes, obesity. Work to not only cure those diseases but eliminate those diseases. Secretary kennedy is always wanting to approach things from the foundation of science.
▶ 0:46:54Dr. Christine: I agree with the secretary on all of those things. I intend to work diligently if I have the privilege of being confirmed in that quest to make americans healthier than they have ever been.
▶ 0:47:10Sen. Tuberville: You expressed some concern that some d.e.I. Based hiring might violate antidiscrimination laws, how do you plan to ensure enforcement against illegal hiring practices in the biden administration?
▶ 0:47:31Ms. Panuccio: Thank you for the question. Title vii prohibits discrimination on a variety of different characteristics. I would vigorously enforce that law. It is just one label to describe certain conduct.
▶ 0:47:55Ms. Panuccio: It does not include diversity or d.e.I., whatever form it comes in, if it violates title vii I'm committed to vigorously enforcing those laws and president trump's agenda to combat that.
▶ 0:48:11Sen. Tuberville: We have problems getting health care, our state is 60% rural in alabama. How do we handle that problem?
▶ 0:48:23Ms. Carey: One of the --
▶ 0:48:25Dr. Christine: One of the things you are speaking about his health care lines where there isn't ready access to primary care services or family practice. We have to find ways to bridge those gaps. I think absolutely telehealth could help provide a bridge to these individuals. We will see what ai brings in the future.
▶ 0:48:52Dr. Christine: We absolutely must encourage and increase the number of primary care physicians, family practitioners, pediatricians, gynecologists, primary care nurses to help bridge this gap as well. That takes a wild to spin that up. We have to find ways to bridge the gaps.
▶ 0:49:11Dr. Christine: I believe that I, as assistant secretary of health, one of the things I intend to do would be to be a true evangelist, really go out and encourage young men and women in medical school and nursing school to serve in these areas getting into health care. I want to help them understand that rural american health care deserts is truly available.
▶ 0:49:46Sen. Tuberville: Is not just that they are not being served, we have to have loyalty in those areas.
▶ 0:49:57Sen. Sanders: I have questions for all three so if you could be brief it would be much appreciated. Spacex owned by you on musk and amazon owned by jeff bezos have filed lawsuits arguing it is unconstitutional, the agency is unconstitutional. You are a partner on the managing side representing amazon in that lawsuit.
▶ 0:50:26Sen. Sanders: Simple question, do you believe it is unconstitutional? Thank you for --
▶ 0:50:35Ms. Carey: Thank you for the question. I believe the answer would come from the courts and I hope it comes swiftly.
▶ 0:50:45Sen. Sanders: I'm asking you, as a citizen, in your judgment, is it an unconstitutional agency?
▶ 0:50:54Ms. Carey: I'm sitting here is the nominee for the general counsel of the national labor board. The case would be decided in the courts and once there is an answer we will move forward.
▶ 0:51:07Sen. Sanders: You have no answer on whether it is constitutional? In his second week in office president trump fired a member of the nlrb without a quorum making it much harder for workers to exercise the right to form a union. Do you believe the firing was illegal?
▶ 0:51:34Ms. Carey: The courts will give us a decision on the constitutionality of that decision and we will move forward from that. I hope for a swift decision so the board could be fully functioning including what a fully conformed board and general counsel.
▶ 0:51:55Sen. Sanders: I agreed with about three quarters of what you said. The american health care system is broken. Would you agree with me that there is something wrong are the only major country not to guarantee health care for all people as a human right?
▶ 0:52:14Dr. Christine: Thank you for being here today. I appreciate the time today. Secretary kennedy believes and I agree that every american deserves to be healthy.
▶ 0:52:30Sen. Sanders: I don't need to be rude, I don't have a lot of time , simple question. Every other major countries guarantees health care to all people. Do you think the united states should do the same?
▶ 0:52:41Dr. Christine: We must make it clear that every american has the opportunity to be healthy.
▶ 0:52:48Sen. Sanders: You are not answering the question, with all due respect. Let me ask you this, recently the senate against my vote, voted for the reconciliation package which according to the cbo throws 17 million people off of their health care. Do you think we are making america healthy by throwing 17 million people off of health care?
▶ 0:53:13Dr. Christine: I thank you for the question. No one -- president trump has been clear about this. No one wants to remove medicaid benefits from truly deserving beneficiaries. There are inefficiencies.
▶ 0:53:33Sen. Sanders: 17 million people are being thrown off.
▶ 0:53:35Dr. Christine: The individuals who truly deserve medicaid will continue to be covered.
▶ 0:53:43Sen. Sanders: In terms of making america healthy, do you think vaccines are safe and effective? If confirmed will you use your position to educate americans about the importance of getting vaccinated?
▶ 0:53:54Dr. Christine: Once again thank you for your time and your question. Let me be clear to this committee, I believe, as the secretary kennedy that vaccines save lives. I believe vaccines are an important part that we have to help prevent disease in this country. I support vaccinations. Just as secretary kennedy does.
▶ 0:54:21Dr. Christine: Support the right of every individual to make informed consent decision about what is right for them.
▶ 0:54:28Sen. Sanders: I don't know that this is secretary kennedy's position. H■e has spent years trying to undermine the belief and faith of vaccines in this country. Last question, simple question. Was it appropriate for the eoc to target law firms that filed lawsuits against president trump?
▶ 0:54:52Ms. Panuccio: Thank you for your question. As a current department of justice employee I'm unable to comment on matters pertaining to pending litigation.
▶ 0:55:03Chair Cassidy: Senator husted.
▶ 0:55:07Sen. Husted: Thank you Mr. chairman. To all of you, thank you for your willingness to serve. We appreciate that very much. Under the biden administration, the eeoc did something what we would call radically expanded its authority with multiple decisions being struck down by the courts for exceeding that authority.
▶ 0:55:37Sen. Husted: My question to you is in that context of having an eeoc that is out of bounds on a way that is looking at issues, what do you intend to do to ensure a mainstream perspective when it comes to labor law?
▶ 0:55:56Ms. Panuccio: If I had the privilege of being confirmed to the commission, my overall approach to the law as it would be is to interpret a statute according to the text. Within the four corners of the authority that congress has given to the eoc. That type of legal perspective and interpretation prevents the kind of expansive interpretation to which you are referring.
▶ 0:56:32Sen. Husted: I want to comment on a recent supreme court hearing. The sexual orientation case with the supreme court where a heterosexual employee was illegally passed over for a promotion and eventually demoted in favor of an lgbtq+ colleague. The court ruled unanimously that the plaintiff was discriminated against for her sexual orientation.
▶ 0:57:04Sen. Husted: How does that decision affect the eeoc? How do you see that impacting the handling of cases going forward?
▶ 0:57:15Ms. Panuccio: The ames decision confirms the position eeoc has taken for decades. Written by justice jackson who is often considered the most liberal member of the court. In that case it reaffirms the position that there is no right or wrong type of plaintiff that the doors are open for everyone, every type of complaint didn't that believes they have been discriminated against based on a protected status.
▶ 0:57:47Ms. Panuccio: I think that decision underscores the eeoc's important decision and reaffirms the position they have taken for decades.
▶ 0:57:56Sen. Husted: I believe that. We are making the decision to treat people as individuals and not as groups. I think it is a very important decision and I think it will have a positive impact on the future of health.
▶ 0:58:16Sen. Husted: I want to talk with you briefly about something that I learned, the median age of all of the cases in the past year, 100 54 days. That is up from 106 days. That is a long time. People need to get these issues settled.
▶ 0:58:48Sen. Husted: It appears the biden administration was guilty of forcing that extension because they were focused on overturning decades. Whether handing in cases around the board in a timely matter trying to set new precedents. I want to ask you, is that your take on the situation?
▶ 0:59:18Sen. Husted: Is that why the delay occurred and what could we do to go back to the precedents we are accustomed to sweet to get these cases solved more quickly?
▶ 0:59:29Ms. Carey: That is one of the reasons. The other reason is staffing is dramatically down. That has been something that has been ongoing for several years. If you want a general counsel who is trying to overturn a majority of every decision ever held by a republican board.
▶ 0:59:55Ms. Carey: It puts a lot of stress on the field agents doing their best to keep up with all of the cases coming in. One of the things I want to do is an organizational assessment to understand what is causing these backlogs as I said in my opening statement I have respect for long-standing board president.
▶ 1:00:19Ms. Carey: I don't see a reason for the sake of trying to overturn the case try and get in the way getting a quicker resolution.
▶ 1:00:30Sen. Husted: I had one quick thought to all of you. What people get frustrated most with is not necessarily the decision, it is the time. It takes so long for people to get things accomplished. Please do it with a sense of urgency. Thank you.
▶ 1:00:48Sen. Hassan: Thank you Mr. chair and I want to thank you and the ranking member for this hearing. Congratulations to all of the nominees and your families too. I'm going to just start with a simple question. If directed by the president to break the law would you follow the law or follow the president?
▶ 1:01:20Sen. Hassan: I don't think the administration would ask me to break the law but I would follow the law.
▶ 1:01:24Dr. Christine: I don't think they would ever ask me to break the law.
▶ 1:01:29Sen. Hassan: And if they did?
▶ 1:01:30Dr. Christine: I don't think the president or secretary would do this?
▶ 1:01:39Ms. Panuccio: I don't believe president trump would ask me to violate the law but I will always follow the law.
▶ 1:01:49Sen. Hassan: The last several months or years you would figure out if the first part of your answer was correct. Dr. christine, it funds lifesaving cancer screenings for women, do you agree that all women should have access to free cancer screenings in their community?
▶ 1:02:09Dr. Christine: Thank you for your time today. I wish we would've had the opportunity to meet.
▶ 1:02:17Sen. Hassan: Yes or no, my time is limited.
▶ 1:02:19Dr. Christine: Federal funding and grants go toward family planning.
▶ 1:02:24Sen. Hassan: I will stop you, my time is limited. Do you agree that all women should have access to free cancer screening in their own community?
▶ 1:02:32Dr. Christine: Title x funds are incredibly important.
▶ 1:02:38Sen. Hassan: Should women have free access to cancer screening?
▶ 1:02:40Dr. Christine: Title x funds --
▶ 1:02:45Sen. Hassan: This is a disqualifying back and forth. You are not willing to answer a yes or no question. President trump is withholding funding from new hampshire family planned clinics that serve thousands of granite stators. We have heard those in new hampshire planning to close doors due to president trump's actions. Will defunding title x make it harder for women to get cancer screenings?
▶ 1:03:09Dr. Christine: If I'm confirmed as the assistant secretary for the department of health and human services I will make sure title x funds are used as they should be.
▶ 1:03:20Sen. Hassan: They aren't used for abortion services. Federal money is not used. I'm going to take your first refusal to answer as a no, you don't believe women should get free cancer screenings. I will take the second answer is one that reflects your unwilling to make sure title x money is used to enable women to get the kind of cancer screenings that saves lives.
▶ 1:03:48Sen. Hassan: Do you know have any cervical cancer screenings are funded by title x each year?
▶ 1:03:52Dr. Christine: I do not.
▶ 1:03:55Sen. Hassan: More than 460 thousand. As assistant secretary would you reverse cuts to family planning to make sure women could receive those 460 thousand cervical cancer screenings?
▶ 1:04:06Dr. Christine: It is the individual decision and I support that. I will ensure title x funds never go toward abortions.
▶ 1:04:14Sen. Hassan: That's what you needed to say poor president trump -- for president trump and perhaps secretary kennedy. I'm curious about cervical cancer screenings. I have a family member who died from cervical cancer, this is very personal to me and it should be personal to you as well. You spoken your testimony about concerned concern about workforce shortages.
▶ 1:04:40Sen. Hassan: You take away title x funding from these clinics that provide cervical cancer screenings for 460,000 women, that is 460,000 people that have to find a provider to do that screening. That is a real challenge and unlikely to happen without these title x agencies in place. As general counsel of the nlrb you would be responsible for ensuring the agency has adequate field staff to investigate unfair labor practices and promptly process petitions.
▶ 1:05:11Sen. Hassan: This past fall they reported the field offices received 25,000 cases during the previous year, the highest total case intake in a decade. Senator husted asked about this, what would you do to confirm the agency has the resources it needs to protect workers rights and enforce the fair labor standards act?
▶ 1:05:33Ms. Carey: My goal is to effectuate the measure of the act and ensure hard-working employees and resources that they need that includes access to training and other support that they need. One of the biggest things I have been having, I have the ability to have conversations given my role right now. They need support. There are resources available throughout the agency that could help them with that backlog and provide some backup.
▶ 1:06:06Sen. Hassan: What doesn't help is when an administration lays off people without doing analysis first. Make sure you have adequate staffing who are also supported. I don't have time to ask my last question which I will submit for the record because I do have real concerns about Ms. carey's capacity to be an independent leader because of the circumstances with the firing of Ms. wilcox.
▶ 1:06:35Sen. Hassan: The last thing I will note is miss carrie's response on the issue of the constitutionality of the nlrb is very disappointing. It was deemed to be constitutional since 1937. >> welcome. We are glad you are willing to take time away from private careers and dedicate your lives to serving this country.
▶ 1:07:05Sen. Hassan: We are grateful to you and we are grateful for not only answering the call to serve but you are families that are here to support you making sure you had the backup to do it. It is not easy. This hearing is certainly an example of that. We are grateful you are willing to step up and serve and face this committee and the process to get there. It is not lost on me, I heard comments from all of you that you feel personal obligations to do this.
▶ 1:07:37Sen. Hassan: You said you are not doing this for the advancement of your career but to help make america healthy again and you feel very strongly about that. I appreciate your on the record comments to congress and to secretary kennedy and the president. Certainly I will note that I have heard from my colleague from alabama. All of these folks not only do we have a floridian, we have Dr.
▶ 1:08:04Sen. Hassan: Christine who has a brother who is a georgian -- judge in florida. Every single one of these folks have a connection to florida which shows how off the winchell our state is. We get a lot of things right in florida. I worked hard during the last administration to try and bring us back to balance and to the law.
▶ 1:08:35Sen. Hassan: Hearing from all of you that that is what you are focused on doing as well. I appreciated your comments on motherhood and balancing the law and your profession. Very important to me and your comments about your extended pro bono service. That is so important and it shows where your heart is. I would like to start with you, Dr.
▶ 1:09:04Sen. Hassan: Christine, I know even gavin newsom is coming out and saying now that he has a nine-year-old he is rethinking his approaches as it relates to the castration of young children. I know the prior person in your role was pushing transgender surgeries on young children and advocating for those. What is your position on that and how could you plan to bring sanity back to this role as it pertains to that?
▶ 1:09:32Dr. Christine: Thank you for taking the time to be here today. I appreciate that you know my brother who is the judge. He is a wonderful man. Our minors, these individuals suffer, they deserve compassion, love.
▶ 1:09:53Dr. Christine: The best treatment for these individuals is that they be treated with compassion, counseling, expert counseling and they be treated with support, care, love. We know that if you treat minors with gender dysphoria in that way, the vast majority of them by the time they reach their late teens will no longer suffer from gender dysphoria. The point of that is due no harm.
▶ 1:10:20Dr. Christine: The way to treat them is not with chemicals and puberty blockers and hormone and surgeries that do irreversible damage. The best way to treat them is with counseling, compassion, care. That's what I would recommend. I agree with the president and secretary, we never want federal funding to go to any kind of transgender surgeries. >> you have a great background.
▶ 1:10:50Dr. Christine: I love your comment for hound agency you once interned with you will be returning. I find that in my new role I get to bring everything from my personal experiences to all my professional experiences to bear. I certainly believe you will find that once confirmed I think your experience is unique for this role. I was once a federal prosecutor myself.
▶ 1:11:17Dr. Christine: The various roles you have held, one of the things that concerned me was the pity of americans against one another. I had to call out certain corporations making people believe they are doing something wrong because of the color of their skin, how would that come to bear in your new role?
▶ 1:11:39Ms. Panuccio: I am a career prosecutor. I am a dedicated public certain -- servant. I have spent a career in government committed to public service, equal opportunity, and civil rights. If I have the privilege of being confirmed I would bring all of those different experiences, everything from being a public school teacher to working with the education department on civil rights issues.
▶ 1:12:09Ms. Panuccio: Learning from esteemed jurists to be a prosecutor as well as my own personal experiences. Benefiting from accommodations for disability and pregnancy and my own experience with being a rape survivor and the importance of protecting women and women's spaces.
▶ 1:12:35Ms. Panuccio: I would bring all of those experiences, both personal and professional if I have the privilege of being confirmed and ensuring that all people have equal opportunity and are treated as individuals.
▶ 1:12:51Sen. Kaine: Congratulations to our nominees. First a comment to my colleagues . Since our last health meeting the secretary of education was over the oversight jurisdiction has announced the pausing of $6.2 billion of educational funds to our states. I just encourage my colleagues to talk to your state officials and see what this means.
▶ 1:13:18Sen. Kaine: Over the weekend I had a chance to meet with the boys and girls club of roanoke that serves appalachia virginia, 850 families, 850 kids and their families. These pauses of funds is 60% of their budget. I'm expecting to hear similar.
▶ 1:13:44Sen. Kaine: The secretary gave no reason for the pause, no indication when the funds might be restored. They start the programming when the school year starts. They don't know whether they could keep the doors open. I hope we have further discussion about this. Dr. christine, about 18% of americans experienced long covid at some point in the last five years.
▶ 1:14:13Sen. Kaine: 25% of people have debilitating symptoms, unable to work, security, mental health challenges. I have been pretty open on this committee since january, 2021 about my own journey with mildly long covid symptoms.
▶ 1:14:35Sen. Kaine: Other senators both democratic andcommittee, current and forme, have also shared long covid experiences personally and family members. Given the secretary's goal to address chronic conditions, I was disappointed that the administration ended the department of hhs office of long covid research and practice, which coordinated a whole series of government efforts to look at research, causes, cures, treatments.
▶ 1:15:06Sen. Kaine: The administration is also undermined the agency for health care research and quality which established a long covid care network. Do you believe that long covid israel? Dr. christine: thank you being here.
▶ 1:15:23Sen. Kaine: You do not need to thank me for being here. Virginians sent me here and I thank them. I'm supposed to be here. I'm doing my job. I do not need a thank you from anybody or just doing my job but I would like to hear you say what you think of long covid.
▶ 1:15:37Dr. Christine: The covered pandemic was devastating for the country, and the loss of life, individuals who suffered, and devastating to the prior administration's approach and causing the loss of confidence.
▶ 1:15:48Sen. Kaine: How about president trump suggesting treatments? You talk about loss of confidence from if you want to put it on somebody's shoulders and you are ignoring a whole lot of misinformation that was perpetrated by the previous probation but that is not the question I asked. I asked whether long covid israel.
▶ 1:16:08Dr. Christine: We certainly need to continue to collect data on individuals who suffer from covid.
▶ 1:16:13Sen. Kaine: 's are you are not sure about whether it is real or not? Is that a fair statement? Stinko we need to collect data --.
▶ 1:16:20Sen. Kaine: I will take that as you are not yet sure about long covid. Do you think it is a chronic condition?
▶ 1:16:27Dr. Christine: We are early on in this express with covid just a few years, which is a blink of an eye.
▶ 1:16:33Sen. Kaine: You have not reached a conclusion. I find it interesting secretary kennedy says he wants to focus on chronic conditions but he is undermining and shutting down an office that was designed to look at a chronic condition. Let me ask you this as a provider, would you recommend your patients get a covid vaccine?
▶ 1:16:52Dr. Christine: I think that covid vaccine, like any medical therapy or vaccine, is going to have inherent risks and benefits.
▶ 1:17:00Sen. Kaine: Would you recommend a patient get the vaccine?
▶ 1:17:03Dr. Christine: In over three decades, I have hinged my practice on informed consent.
▶ 1:17:08Sen. Kaine: You have practiced medicine for three decades. Have you never recommended to a patient who have said, doc, what is your recommendation? When somebody says that, do you give them a recommendation?
▶ 1:17:21Dr. Christine: Certainly.
▶ 1:17:23Sen. Kaine: But you would not feel comfortable giving a recommendation to a patient to get a covid vaccine?
▶ 1:17:31Dr. Christine: What I would feel most comfortable with this making sure the patient has access to good information.
▶ 1:17:36Sen. Kaine: That is ready to troubling. As was your answer in the question senator hassan asked for it she asked all witnesses whether if you are given a directive of the president or secretary thought violated the law would you follow the directive or follow the law. Brother panelist said I would never be given such a directive. -- or other panelist that I would never be given such a directive but I will always follow the law. You could not say that final clause, would always follow the law.
▶ 1:18:06Sen. Kaine: I think a lot of people noticed that.
▶ 1:18:14Sen. Murkowski: Thank you for being here. Dr. christine, I want to quickly follow on from my friend from virginia and his request on long covid and your views. You have indicated you continuing to collect data. If you would like additional data from the state of alaska, I can sorely supply you with names and individuals who have presented these matters to me with great concern and a desire to understand more.
▶ 1:18:46Sen. Murkowski: I'm going to direct my first questions to you, Ms. carey. I appreciate the fact we had a chance to have some discussion yesterday. You have spoken here this morning about the issues with regards to staffing levels at the nlrb, how we got there. I think some constructive ways on how to approach it, know in my state of alaska this issue of this backlog and how long it is taking a process these claims, it matters.
▶ 1:19:17Sen. Murkowski: So I can urge you to pay attention to certain broader issues that are going to help us in alaska, it is certainly on the issue of staffing and being able to address backlog.
▶ 1:19:32Sen. Murkowski: You have shared with me your belief that nlrb is an independent federal agent there to safeguard employees rights, ensure fair labor practices, and I appreciate that view.
▶ 1:19:57Sen. Murkowski: And also one that we discussed, which is your concern that we see a lack of stability really within the nlrb where you have proceeded that has been established over years a withdrawal or a pullback from that. And the discussion about how we can focus more on continued or greater stability. I think that is going to be important within the nlrb as well.
▶ 1:20:28Sen. Murkowski: I mentioned to you I am a republican that has a good strong relationship with labor in alaska. I want to be able to continue that. I think my ability to do that is when labor feels that the independent agencies are acting fair, that they are working to uphold the national labor relations act fairly.
▶ 1:20:55Sen. Murkowski: One issue I did not raise yesterday was the fact that in my state, we have about half the federally recognized tribes in the country. We have a number of tribes and alaska native corporations that operate both public and private sector enterprises. These are significant economic drivers for us, particularly in rural parts of the state.
▶ 1:21:22Sen. Murkowski: As nlrb general counsel, how would you approach questions of labor law as they relate to sovereign entities or complex your sectional questions as we certainly have there in alaska?
▶ 1:21:34Ms. Carey: I also enjoyed our conversation and thank you for taking the time to meet with me. I agree with you. As we discussed, the nlrb has been an independent agency since it was established in 1935. Any prosecutorial discretion that comes to me, I don't take lightly. In terms of jurisdictional issues, complex, also guided by the statute.
▶ 1:21:58Ms. Carey: I am willing to take input and provide technical assistance to new questions we have in relations to any potential jurisdictional issues. Those are pretty fact-intensive and would require a little more than I can probably give here to you today, but I'm willing to work with you going forward.
▶ 1:22:15Sen. Murkowski: Happy to have more conversations with you about that. Dr. christine, let me go back to you. Again, sticking with our alaska native constituency, the ihs provides critical health care to alaska natives, american indian community's we had many in my state choose to compact their ihs funds to manage their own health care programs.
▶ 1:22:47Sen. Murkowski: The alaska native tribal compact manages hospitals in anchorage emperor bethel, -- significant facilities. I would ask your commitment if you're confirmed for this position to ensure that we have true tribal consultation.
▶ 1:23:14Sen. Murkowski: I need you to champion robust tribal consultation policies across hhs that not only fulfill the legal obligations they are, but really work to build out the collaboration necessary that respect tribal sovereignty in developing the health programs that impact our native communities.
▶ 1:23:34Dr. Christine: Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you for offering to have individuals from alaska contribute to data. Absolutely, I want you to understand one of the things that if I am privileged to be confirmed, I take absolutely are indigenous and other individuals in the country who may have health discrepancies, I take that very seriously.
▶ 1:23:58Dr. Christine: I absolutely will be working with the secretary and I'm happy to be working with you to make sure were indigenous tribes follow along with the rest of the country and become healthier than they have ever been.
▶ 1:24:08Sen. Murkowski: I have multiple questions I will submit for the record.
▶ 1:24:14Sen. Alsobrooks: Congratulations to each of you on your nominations. I just have a few questions for Dr. christine. Dr. christine, you appeared on a podcast by 1819, very recently, in september of 2022 where you said the following, "society works best when men and women are fulfilling their roles. When they are what they're supposed to do.
▶ 1:24:42Sen. Alsobrooks: Raising children and propagating the species that fulfills the natural and moral law. I have a question for you because I also know project 2025 calls for the office of the assistant secretary for health to focus on uplifting traditional gender roles. I want to know, Dr.
▶ 1:25:02Sen. Alsobrooks: Christine, we have eight women who are serving for example on this committee in the united states senate, and I wonder whether it is your perspective that we are fulfilling our natural and moral roles working as senators instead of working in the home?
▶ 1:25:16Dr. Christine: Thank you for being here. I'm sorry we did not have the opportunity to meet before this meeting but thank you for your time today. Let me say that project 2025 -- of course I have nothing to do with that. I have not even read through project 2025. Project 2025 does not at all in any way shape or form dictate president and his policy.
▶ 1:25:41Sen. Alsobrooks: Let me interrupt you because of limited time. My specific question is just about your quote where you said you believe in these traditional gender roles. I wanted to know, how do you specifically plan to use your office to uplift gender traditional -- traditional gender roles?
▶ 1:25:56Dr. Christine: My role as the assistant secretary for health if confirmed will be to work with the secretary to make america healthy again. I think in terms of gender roles, an individual, man or woman, can do with a what to do. My wife is an oxford trained very high caliber lawyer. We don't have children together. I support her in that. I support a woman's choice to go ahead and pursue any career she may want or a man.
▶ 1:26:24Dr. Christine: My main goal is to make america healthier again by supporting secretary kennedy and supporting our president.
▶ 1:26:31Sen. Alsobrooks: I think this is an important question. This was not long ago that you said you believe men and women are supposed to be in specific roles raising children and propagating the species. And you would be really responsible as well for implementing policies that uplift health issues for women in the united states, so I want to make sure you understand this is going to be very important to so many people.
▶ 1:26:56Sen. Alsobrooks: I want to ask you about another area regarding teen pregnancy and whether you believe teen pregnancy prevention programs are important.
▶ 1:27:03Dr. Christine: I believe -- I'm a biologist by training, scientist. I believe young men and women when the ages appropriately educated about the biology and physiology of reproduction. I believe when it comes to education regarding sexual intimacy, sexual intercourse, birth prevention, that is best in the purview of the parents. I strongly believe that.
▶ 1:27:27Dr. Christine: Sup alsobrooks teen pregnancy programs, for example, alabama has prevention branch and I wonder whether or not you will believe this kind of program is important?
▶ 1:27:37Dr. Christine: I absolutely support that parents should be the individuals to discuss sexuality and those kinds of things.
▶ 1:27:46Sen. Alsobrooks: I'm not asking about parents, I am asking whether or not you believe these kinds of government supported programs, specifically this team prevention pregnancy program, is important.
▶ 1:27:57Dr. Christine: I believe that kind of education for kids comes from the parents best. Sup alsobrooks so you do not believe, for example, in the federal funding that would help to support an important program like a teen pregnancy prevention program.
▶ 1:28:16Dr. Christine: I know your own state for example help alabama reduce its teen birth rate by 78% by using a program like that one but you are saying now you believe that kind of program should be eliminated. Is that what you believe?
▶ 1:28:30Dr. Christine: I support the secretary to work to make america healthy again. Make sure we pursue that agenda. We are certainly going to support the right of parents to make medical decisions. Sen. ■alsobrooks: not asking about parents. We are talking but the federal government today and whether or not these kinds of programs deserve federal funding.
▶ 1:28:53Dr. Christine: I assume from your response that you do not support the federal funding that supported programs like the one in alabama that help to reduce teen pregnancy by 17%, that you would agree with eliminating a program? Like that. Is that correct?
▶ 1:29:08Dr. Christine: I agree with giving parents -- they have to major control of when they discuss these things with their children.
▶ 1:29:14Sen. Alsobrooks: Ok.
▶ 1:29:16Chair Cassidy: Senator hawley.
▶ 1:29:20Sen. Hawley: Congratulations to the nominees. Thank you for being here. Ms. carey, let me start with you. I want to talk a little bit about some nlrb precedents and your views on them. Let's start with captive audience meetings.
▶ 1:29:35Sen. Hawley: Nlrb decided last year I believe it was that captive audience meetings, these are the meetings where workers are forced to sit through mandatory sessions with the employer, often told by the employer why they should not unionize, perhaps being threatened implicitly or explicitly. I emphasize these are mandatory meetings now. Employer with employee. The nlrb decided last year that these captive audience meetings are not consistent with labor law. You have been critical of this decision.
▶ 1:30:05Sen. Hawley: Explain this to me.
▶ 1:30:08Ms. Carey: Thank you for the question and I'm sorry we have not been able to connect prior to today. I know we missed a few opportunities. I have been critical of that decision. I stand by everything that I have said publicly.
▶ 1:30:20Sen. Hawley: Would not be able to enforce it?
▶ 1:30:22Ms. Carey: My job if confirmed would be to enforce the national labor relations board's decision.
▶ 1:30:28Sen. Hawley: You been critical of it. You said you stand by it and are not going to retract anything. We'll be in charge of enforcing it. Isn't that a problem? Explain that to me.
▶ 1:30:38Ms. Carey: My job would be to enforce board orders. However, if cases involving those similar issues come back and are filed by charging parties at the regional level, they are investigated unaffected by fact basis and we are to determine there is merit to those, there is prosecutorial discretion for the general counsel to determine whether or not and how to move that case forward.
▶ 1:31:01Sen. Hawley: That is what worries me. The prosecutorial discretion. You have been very vociferously, safe to say, critical of the nlrb standing precedent in this area. And you will have the discretion to enforce it or not.
▶ 1:31:16Ms. Carey: Every general counsel progeny has also had the same prosecutorial discretion and committed to enforcing the act.
▶ 1:31:25Sen. Hawley: They have not been as openly critically and steadfastly so as you are on what is a key part of now your enforcement responsibility.
▶ 1:31:32Ms. Carey: Again, I be committed to enforcing the act. The act itself, which was approved by congress and established by congress --.
▶ 1:31:42Sen. Hawley: Your job is to enforce what the board has decided is the controlling law.
▶ 1:31:48Ms. Carey: Those would be separate procedures you're describing.
▶ 1:31:51Sen. Hawley: So you don't see your role as enforcing with the nlrb has done in the past.
▶ 1:31:55Ms. Carey: My job, if there is questions about the board order, it would be to enforce that action and the court's.
▶ 1:32:05Sen. Hawley: And you would do that?
▶ 1:32:06Ms. Carey: That would be my job.
▶ 1:32:08Sen. Hawley: You have discretion to do it or not. Nothing you've said so far has allayed my concerns. You are worsening them as I sit here.
▶ 1:32:16Ms. Carey: I think you're confusing to issues. Enforcing a board order is separate. I am able to investigate that. The hard-working field attorneys take a look at that case and determine whether or not there is merit. At that point that is a different case. That is not the amazon case. Standing precedent would be the amazon case.
▶ 1:32:35Sen. Hawley: My question to you is, will you enforce the precedents of the nlrb even if you disagree with them?
▶ 1:32:41Ms. Carey: L enforce the boards order but I will utilize prosecutorial discretion where necessary and I think is appropriate.
▶ 1:32:48Sen. Hawley: That is not reassuring. You mentioned amazon. Let's talk about amazon. They are a client of yours?
▶ 1:32:55Ms. Carey: They are.
▶ 1:32:57Sen. Hawley: ? So is apple? ? Activision? You will recuse yourself from enforcement decisions or actions involving any of these people I assume?
▶ 1:33:05Ms. Carey: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:33:09Sen. Hawley: When it comes to amazon company for failure with her partnership deliver program?
▶ 1:33:13Ms. Carey: I am.
▶ 1:33:17Sen. Hawley: , no drivers were amazon vests, drive amazon branded vehicles, deliver amazon branded packages to amazon customers. The company controls their time schedule, the delivery time their terms of service, the terms of their employment but the company says at the same time, they are really our employees. They are wearing their gear, driving their trucks come but they say, oh, these are not our employees.
▶ 1:33:44Sen. Hawley: They say these are in fact subcontractors. It is hard to imagine that this actually satisfies the joint employer rule. What is your view?
▶ 1:33:56Ms. Carey: That rule has been for lack of better terms one of the issues that has flip-flopped a lot in the labor and legal community generally. Depending on what happens, and it is an incredibly fact-intensive investigation that has to take lace to determine whether or not someone is a joint employer or not.
▶ 1:34:17Sen. Hawley: You think amazon's attempt to control every detail of its drivers lives, schedules, deliveries while simultaneously treating them as nonemployees, you don't think --.
▶ 1:34:29Ms. Carey: I'm not going to comment on amazon directly or that program, but I will cite any case before me if confirmed I will take a very hard look at because it is incredibly fact-intensive analysis.
▶ 1:34:41Sen. Hawley: But it is more than that, it really matters for the livelihood of thousands and thousands of workers.
▶ 1:34:47Ms. Carey: Which is why it is incredibly important however is investigating that, and if I'm confirmed as general counsel, will ultimately lay it in my lap, that we do a really good job making sure we are analyzing all of the facts before us.
▶ 1:35:00Sen. Hawley: Thank you. I have a lot more questions for you, Ms. carey. I am pretty concerned with your record and, frankly, the answers you have given me today. Thank you. >> Ms. carey, nearly 60 million workers join a union in 2024. During the 2024 fiscal year, the nlrb received nearly 25,000 cases nationwide, the highest number in 15 years.
▶ 1:35:32Sen. Hawley: Over the last 15 years, staffing levels at the nlrb have been drastically reduced. The nlrb has lost nearly 40% of its field enforcement staff. Unfair labor practice case processing times have exploded from the median of 105 days to now more than 450 days. Of these cases are mostly brought forth by workers whose rights may have been violated.
▶ 1:36:00Sen. Hawley: As of this week, over 100 new cases have been filed by people from my state, wisconsin, this year. Additionally, the nlrb is the sole agency that can conduct and certify union elections. Unless an employer voluntarily recognizes a union, this is the only way to form one. And the right of workers to organize depends on nlrb's ability to function.
▶ 1:36:29Sen. Hawley: So do you agree that nlrb needs increased funding for staff to protect workers, enforce labor laws, and fully do its job? Will you commit here today you will request whatever funds and authority is necessary to hire and retain sufficient staff?
▶ 1:36:46Ms. Carey: Thank you for the question. As a practitioner, I can confirm for you that the backlog and the lag in the time from the time charge is filed and we get a resolution is very long. My conversations with the individuals at the nlrb, including the unions, that time has exceeded a year in many cases, which is incredibly unfortunate.
▶ 1:37:11Ms. Carey: I have said many times that I will be a good steward of public funds first and foremost we had but once I am there and able to review all of the data to ensure that things could not be moved around or there aren't resources we can use it a different way, my job is to ensure that the mission is met and the act is effectuated. If after I do an assessment I realize we are under budget and we need more, I look forward to working with congress and the white house to ensure we are able to meet our goal.
▶ 1:37:41Sen. Baldwin: What about the funding needed to keep regional offices open and accessible to the public? Will you commit to requesting sufficient funds for these purposes?
▶ 1:37:54Ms. Carey: Another great question. I don't have the data in front of me to make a commitment like that, but that is something that is very important to me to make sure people, especially -- I know there are some areas in the midwest I do not have offices anywhere nearby. Certainly, something that is concerning. We want to make sure people know the nlrb is there to help them so that is part of one of the items I want to take a look at.
▶ 1:38:17Sen. Baldwin: Earlier this year, it was reported that doge gained access to private nlrb systems containing sensitive, personal, identifiable information about union members, employers, and lawsuits. It doesn't take much imagination to see why that information in the wrong hands would be dangerous.
▶ 1:38:42Sen. Baldwin: How would you ensure that private data held by the nlrb is not inappropriately accessed or used?
▶ 1:38:50Ms. Carey: I am only aware of the publicly reported information. I am aware of what you're referring to, though, that privacy in general, I would work with the resources internal to the national labor relations board including the office of administration, the technology branch, privacy counsel to ensure that we are complying with any law that would require us to turn over anything that other west making sure we are protecting information.
▶ 1:39:20Sen. Baldwin: If confirmed, will you comply with request for information from any investigations or litigations regarding this matter?
▶ 1:39:26Ms. Carey: If confirmed, we would need to do a whole analysis of what the request was an for whom it was from. Ultimately, I would comply with any legal requirement to provide.
▶ 1:39:37Sen. Baldwin: Thank you. Ms. pannuccio, I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me earlier this week. When congress created the eeoc, we designed the agency to be independent from the executive branch. However, in our meeting, you indicated you believe the eeoc is not an independent agency but instead controlled squarely by the president.
▶ 1:40:07Sen. Baldwin: I want to understand how far you think that power extends. If the president directs the agency to no longer pursue any claims of sex-based discrimination on behalf of women, with the agency have to stop all such investigations and bring the future cases?
▶ 1:40:22Ms. Panuccio: Thank you for your question. I enjoyed our conversation, too. The eeoc is an executive branch agency as it has been held out --.
▶ 1:40:33Sen. Baldwin: Mr. president directs the agency to no longer pursue these cases come up with the agency have to stop all such investigations and bring a future cases?
▶ 1:40:44Ms. Panuccio: As an executive branch agency, the president is the head of the executive branch we had the agency has a finite amount -- prosecutorial discussio --.
▶ 1:41:12Sen. Baldwin: Was that a yes? I would ask enter into the record a letter opposing Ms. pannuccio's nomination by 45 civil rights organizations.
▶ 1:41:23Chair Cassidy: Without objection. Normally we go back and forth, I have to be here anyway, so I'm going to let you go before me. >> thank you, Mr. chair. Dr.
▶ 1:41:40Chair Cassidy: Christine secretary kennedy announced he had plans for the department to "mine" extract and utilize data from medicare, medicaid claims to inform his investigation into the causes of autism. This database would include information from wearable devices like an apple watch or a ring, things like that.
▶ 1:42:09Chair Cassidy: As a physician, and you obviously understand the value of personal health privacy, does this concern you?
▶ 1:42:18Dr. Christine: Number one, thank you for being here. I am sorry we did not have a chance to meet. In terms of pursuing the make america healthy agenda, we know the secretary is absolutely committed to doing that, to collecting data and operating from a position of science. I have not spoken to the secretary or heard specifically his thoughts about the wearable devices. I would want to do that before I make comment.
▶ 1:42:46Dr. Christine: If confirmed, I commit to you I will certainly have that discussion and be happy to discuss that with you again.
▶ 1:42:52Sen. Hickenlooper: And make a commitment to ensure the database and all these other collection efforts at the hhs uphold the highest levels of privacy.
▶ 1:43:02Dr. Christine: We absolutely want to respect patients privacy and want to pursue the ending of chronic diseases.
▶ 1:43:10Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you. Ms. carey, the president's budget request propose cutting nlrb by 14 million, roughly 5% of the budget. According to the agency's budget plan, nlrb said it will lose almost 100 employees in the next fiscal year through buyouts and early retirements. Are you worried these cuts -- honestly, they include the general counsel's office -- they're going to impact the ability of the board to really do its job effectively?
▶ 1:43:41Ms. Carey: Thank you for the question. One of the things I want to do, and I discussed a couple of times, I want to make sure there's a full organizational assessment for both the field and headquarters to ensure staffing is appropriately used so we can respond to cases in a timely manner. I was not privy to what the back room was on how they got the numbers or where they landed, I look forward if confirmed to working with the agency to ensure we are properly staffed.
▶ 1:44:09Sen. Hickenlooper: Fair enough. Dr. christine, hhs is releasing updated guidance on the eligibility for the covid-19 vaccine. Some groups of individuals who previously have been covered now will not be covered. Or likely will not be covered.
▶ 1:44:29Sen. Hickenlooper: This is causing a certain level, significant level of concern between patients and providers as to which vaccines will be covered by insurance and who might be forced to pay out-of-pocket for those costs.
▶ 1:44:44Sen. Hickenlooper: Are you concerned it will require physician offices to do even more administrative burden some work to figure out who has coverage, who doesn't while at the same time enjoying -- doing all the things you've got to do, provide medical advice, making sure your caring for that patient.
▶ 1:45:06Dr. Christine: Thank you for the question. Secretary kennedy has been clear he believes we need to follow the science when it comes in a kind of medical therapy and that would apply to vaccines and immunizations. Regarding what is recommended or is on the schedule, we know that science is not static. It can change over time.
▶ 1:45:28Dr. Christine: Certainly come the secretary wants us to be able come if science in the future and data, leads us down the road where we need to make changes to the schedule, for instance, that we be willing to pivot and do that if science leads us in that direction. We always want to be responsible to do that. In terms of coverage of the vaccines, what is recommended will be covered, we have to be able to pivot. We have to be able to change if we find the need to do so in the future.
▶ 1:45:52Sen. Hickenlooper: When you say science directs us, when there are a disagreement within the scientific establishment, how do you look at distilling out what it is that science is telling you?
▶ 1:46:05Dr. Christine: Excellent question. One of the hallmarks of data that can be trusted or believed is reproducibility. If there is let's say two sets of data that may not agree 100%, we would have to have reproducibility. In other words, we can always do more studies, more science to try to figure out what is reese produce about and what is true. -- producible and what is true.
▶ 1:46:34Sen. Hickenlooper: That is part of a longer discussion. I need medical assistance.
▶ 1:46:42Dr. Christine: I am a meteorologist will stop I cannot help with the cough. -- I am a urologist. I cannot help with that.
▶ 1:46:56Chair Cassidy: Some ask you to cough. One of the nice things about being last, don't have a time limit. I may go a little longer than five minutes. Dr. christine, I really enjoyed our visit. You mentioned, I think use the term to be an evangelist those things that make america healthy again and to follow the science.
▶ 1:47:19Chair Cassidy: The science clearly reproducibility over and over again have shown vaccines are safe and that vaccines do not cause autism. There's always this little bit of chatter out there, but when it is looked at by the mainstream of what the medical scientists look at, it is considered to come in three, watch a standard deviations out in the data over and over again reproducibility shows there are safe and do not -- are not associated with autism.
▶ 1:47:51Chair Cassidy: Right now we have a measles outbreak. We had two children die of vaccine prudent -- of vaccine- preventable diseases. We had a pregnant woman lose may be in canada because she was exposed to someone who did not get vaccinated for measles, showing we have a mutual responsibility. Get vaccinated if you want to doesn't work for the pregnant woman who has been exposed and loses her baby we had we are both pro-life but you don't have to be pro-life to see that as an incredible tragedy.
▶ 1:48:20Chair Cassidy: Are you willing to be an evangelist to tell people vaccines are safe and that fidelity should be vaccinated so we don't lose another child?
▶ 1:48:27Dr. Christine: 's editor, I, too, enjoyed our time together. Dr. cassidy, I appreciated that day. As I sit here before the committee, I believe vaccine save lives. I believe strongly that vaccines are an important part of our army as we promote public health and prevent disease. If even one disease dies from a disease that could be prevented by vaccination, that is one too many. I believe secretary kennedy believes that same way.
▶ 1:48:56Dr. Christine: I will certainly use my position if confirmed as the assistant secretary for health to promote the health and wellness of people in this country. I believe vaccines are important. I believe that vaccinations are appropriate. My child is vaccinated. I also believe strongly that vaccines, like any kind of medical therapy, are individual and of course there are going to be inherent risks and benefits.
▶ 1:49:20Chair Cassidy: Let me stop you for a second. Of course there are always risks. But there is been a lot of emphasis on risk but no emphasis upon the risk of not being vaccinated. People don't die from getting vaccinated for measles. They just don't read people do die if they don't get vaccinated. Or they have a chronic condition which shows up 13 years later. Or the child that was in utero when exposed is born in the end up mentally retorted when otherwise they would have lived a long life.
▶ 1:49:50Chair Cassidy: I agree with you there is this kind of -- I think we would both agree, you mentioned earlier you are a biologist, that the overwhelmingly -- weight of evidence is these are safe, effective, prevent death, prevent chronic disease. Would you be an evangelist on that?
▶ 1:50:07Dr. Christine: I absolutely will be an evangelist that vaccinations are important. They do save lives. A person would recommend the measles vaccine. I believe secretary kennedy is doing the same. I will use that position to be an evangelist to help individuals understand and bring them to pursue the appropriate vaccination schedule that is right for them I guess the short answer to your question is yes.
▶ 1:50:29Chair Cassidy: Ms. carey, I am not an attorney. I'm a gastroenterologist. I don't like attorneys. No offense. I listened very closely to your exchange with Dr. holly, Mr. hawley. Am I to say that if -- see if I interpret this correctly. Hawley had some points.
▶ 1:50:57Chair Cassidy: If there is a regional staff that investigates a claim upon the issue you are saying there is prosecutorial discretion that regional staff would have the ability to pursue that claim under the current precedent or re-saying, no, you might pull that from them based upon your own discretion? I don't. Know. I'm just asking.
▶ 1:51:23Ms. Carey: The answer is the way he presented it is correct. Once a new claim would come up in relation to the captive audience decision, the accident precedent as the decision. -- in terms of conducting the investigation to determine whether or not there was merit, yes, they would base it on current board law. However, prosecutorial discretion rests with the general counsel. There are many ways in which the act can be effectuated.
▶ 1:51:51Ms. Carey: It can be withdrawal, dismissal, and issue complaint, also to make new arguments to present them to an administrative law judge.
▶ 1:52:01Chair Cassidy: I accept that. But if hawley were still here, how would you concerned -- delay his concerns be your own -- allay his concerns, the precedent that would establish the course of action?
▶ 1:52:17Ms. Carey: I believe the agency is an independent agency and I believe the authority to make those prosecutorial decisions lies with confirmed general counsel. I would use that knowledge that I have, that have garnered over the last 15 years of being a board agent for over half of that and working practitioner, my knowledge of law to make a determination based on the facts of that case whether or not to pursue a different standard or to continue on the precedent.
▶ 1:52:48Chair Cassidy: There is little concerned that personal belief might put a thumb on the scale. -- there is a little concerned that personal belief might put a thumb on the scale.
▶ 1:53:00Ms. Carey: I understand his concern and what you are saying. I'm not going to back away for something I have said publicly. In relation to a decision that I take my job, if c onfirmed, it is important. Individuals have personal opinions. Every day when they come to work, they know their job is in it is to effectuate the act. I take that seriously and I'm am committed to fulfilling that role as well if confirmed.
▶ 1:53:28Chair Cassidy: I think you pointed out the previous person in this role.
▶ 1:53:36Ms. Carey: There were about 12 pages of cases that were overturned.
▶ 1:53:40Chair Cassidy: I would like to submit the record support for Ms.
▶ 1:53:57Chair Cassidy: Pannuccio's nomination from a group of civil rights attorneys and practitioners with extensive experience in employment law and federal civil rights enforcement and policy for her to serve as eeoc commissioner. I acknowledge this is submitted without objection. Pretty senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due at 5:00 p.m. Tomorrow july 17. Thank you for being here. The committee stands adjourned.