▶ 0:20:57The committee will come to order. We are going to have a business meeting appointing five nominees and then we will proceed to the hearing on state department reorganization. With that we will start with and we agreed we will have a roll call vote on each of these. Senator shaheen?
▶ 0:21:28Sen. Shaheen: I just wanted to briefly point out that all of the appointees this morning are political appointees. Every president has the right to nominate whoever they like but it is notable we are six months into the administration and the committee has only received four career nominees none of whom who have moved forward and given the personnel cuts and the lack of senate confirmed ambassadors where china is active I hope we will advance those career
▶ 0:22:00Sen. Shaheen: Nominees. I hope senator rubio and the white house is listening and they will prioritize those career nominees so we can get people on their post throughout the world. Thank you.
▶ 0:22:12Chair Risch: I think the criticism that we need to move more career people is well taken. The president does have the ability to move the political ones. With all due respect we are having trouble moving them on the floor. I have made specific requests.
▶ 0:22:43Chair Risch: At least we ought to make the president's team as big as we can we have modest agreement on who should all those seats. Senator cornyn.
▶ 0:22:53Sen. Cornyn: Is our democratic friends would simply cooperate on expediting the confirmation of noncontroversial nominees across the floor we could get a lot of people on post. It is really important to have the president representative as a U.S. ambassador to a number of these countries. This is not doing anything except delaying those.
▶ 0:23:21Sen. Cornyn: It is hurting the country and I wish our colleagues would do what traditionally we have done and that is agreed to voice votes or expedite noncontroversial nominees. I understand they will pick their fights and more power to them but I think it is a two-way street and I wish they would take that to heart.
▶ 0:23:41Chair Risch: Senator shaheen?
▶ 0:23:45Sen. Shaheen: Certainly I have been one of those who has urged we move nominees to ambassadorships around the world as expeditiously as possible and urge people to vote against them if you do not like them but we need to move these people so we can get them on post.
▶ 0:24:05Sen. Shaheen: I would hope we would agree that if we have a number of career ambassadors he can move them and think about who else we might be able to move as part of that package but I would hope we would make an effort to do this on both sides of the aisle.
▶ 0:24:19Chair Risch: I have discussed that with the president, with the state department and others. The more we get the easier it is to make a deal to move. We will try to do that and as quickly as we can. Thank you for your thoughts on that. Let's move to the first nominee.
▶ 0:24:42Chair Risch: Anjani sinha appointed to be ambassador to the republic of singapore. Is there a motion? It has been moved and seconded that the committee sent Mr. sinha to the floor with recommendation. Is there debate? Senator shaheen?
▶ 0:25:08Sen. Shaheen: I intend to vote against Dr. sinha. There are a lot of nominees who face a learning curve on diplomacy and I have supported many of those who take the responsibility seriously. What we saw at this hearing for Mr. sinha was he had failed to do his homework. That will not serve the united states well representing singapore which is important so I intend to vote against it.
▶ 0:25:40Chair Risch: Further debate? There being no further debate, clerk call the role? >> [roll call]
▶ 0:26:49Chair Risch: The clerk will report if that is possible. >> the yays are 12 and the nays are 10.
▶ 0:27:03Chair Risch: The motion is passed. We now have jeffrey bartos to be represented to the united nations u.n. Management and reform. Moved in second we sent Mr. bartos to the floor. The clerk will call the role. >> [roll call]
▶ 0:28:07Chair Risch: The clerk will report. >> the yays are 15 and the nos are 17.
▶ 0:28:20Chair Risch: The motion is passed. Now we have linda blanchard to be ambassador to the united nations for food and agriculture . It has been moved and seconded. Is there debate? No debate, the clerk will call the roll.
▶ 0:28:39Chair Risch: >> [roll call] the
▶ 0:29:25Chair Risch: Yays are 12 and the nos are 10.
▶ 0:29:31Chair Risch: The motion passed. We now have kimberly guilfoyle of florida to be ambassador to greece. It has been moved and seconded. Is there debate? Senator shaheen?
▶ 0:29:45Sen. Shaheen: I intend to support miss guilfoyle's nomination. She has worked hard to understand the U.S. and greek relationship and it is important we have ambassador in athens as soon as possible. We have a large hellenic community in new hampshire watching to make sure we have someone on the ground to help with americans in greece and while I remain concerned about some of the incidents in Ms.
▶ 0:30:15Sen. Shaheen: Guilfoyle's past I hope she will support all americans and I intend to support her.
▶ 0:30:24Chair Risch: The clerk will call the roll. >> [roll call]
▶ 0:31:05Chair Risch: The yays are 13, the nos are 9.
▶ 0:31:12Chair Risch: The motion is passed. We now have jennifer locetta of florida to be the representative for special political affairs in the united nations with the rank of ambassador. Is there a motion? Motion and seconded we sent the nomination forward. Is there debate? Being no debate the clerk will call the roll.
▶ 0:31:37Chair Risch: >> [roll call] >>
▶ 0:32:13Chair Risch: The yays are 13, the nos are 9.
▶ 0:32:22Chair Risch: The motion is passed and that concludes the business agenda of our meeting and we will now move when and if we get a representative from the state department to have a hearing. A hearing on state department reorganization. I am told he has been delayed. Visit amongst yourselves.
▶ 0:32:46Sen. Kaine: Can I ask that those who are here be counted here on the gavel? There is another hearing I will duck into.
▶ 0:32:57Chair Risch: Thank you for staying. You are considered present.
▶ 0:41:15Chair Risch: We are now in order anyway so we'll be as orderly as we can. Good morning. We will hear from Mr. rig asa we talk about the reorganization of the state departments. I would like to welcome everyone in our audience. As usual people we have zero tolerance on interruptions, demonstrations or attempt to contact members of the committee or witness and anyone who does so will be subject to the rules of the committee. With that we welcome you.
▶ 0:41:49Chair Risch: It is a public hearing. I will make a brief opening statement and then what -- and then senator shaheen will do likewise and then Mr. rigas, we will hear what you have to say and then we will do a round of questions. Thank you for being here today. It is not easy but change is necessary and moving the needle within the state department bureaucracy is no small feat.
▶ 0:42:19Chair Risch: President trump, secretary rubio, and you have listened to the american people's deciding for government accountability and seized on this moment to make once in a generation alterations to a state department that was stuck in the 20th century. It is no accident that the last major reorganization took place under previous republican administration led by president bush with secretary colin powell leaving the state department. At the time secretary powell was fighting to get computers on desks and employees to use their email.
▶ 0:42:51Chair Risch: The challenges this administration faces are arguably bigger. After decades of state department bloat and waste your team is pushing the department to be leaner and more agile. Where america used to be the world's atm this administration is focused on how to responsibly use taxpayer dollars and rein in national debt all while out competing our adversaries like china and russia.
▶ 0:43:18Chair Risch: The state department reorganization plan secretary rubio has shared with congress is a good start and sorely needed. I hope it is just this administration's first step towards building a more effective U.S. foreign policy that is responsive to the needs of the american people.
▶ 0:43:34Chair Risch: With that said I hope any reductions in force strongly focus on performance while ensuring the department's best and brightest personnel, who rival any diplomatic service in the world, do not just stay at the state department but thrive there. There are a few areas remain concerned about. The office of the sanction coordinator and the role of science and tech and cyber at the state park are not focused properly and need to be reworked. Mr.
▶ 0:44:02Chair Risch: Rigas, as you know, rather than making hirings on effectiveness, the department under the previous administration created diversity equity and inclusion and accessibility requirements that distracted from their core mission and undermines morale and created an unfair process for promotions and performance evaluations.
▶ 0:44:26Chair Risch: Adherence to these goals was a church were rigid enforcement structure and included "senior advisors for deia" in nearly every bureau and anonymous reporting portals where employees were encouraged to denounce colleagues who would not toe the company line.
▶ 0:44:45Chair Risch: I am hoping to see an overhaul of performance evaluations and order to fully return the state department to merit principles rather than promotion based on who you know or what you look like. It is hard to represent america when the department's are the antithesis of the american dream . I know this administration is hard at work on reforming this process.
▶ 0:45:11Chair Risch: Lastly I have said many times that I hope this reorganization incentivizes the department to rebalance its risk tolerance and get our diplomats into the field where they belong. We are not going to beat our competitors sitting behind a desk's. We need our diplomats out of the embassies pushing for america's interests across the world. In 2022 my secure embassy construction act helped free our personnel to get out and do their jobs.
▶ 0:45:43Chair Risch: The previous administration state department did not fully implement that law. I hope under your leadership this will be remedied and I expect so. The american people deserve a state department staffed by our nation's best working to advance american interests and outcompete our adversaries. Mr. rigas, you and your colleagues have a opportunity to create a unified workforce that rewards merit and accomplishment rather than dei and divisive ideology.
▶ 0:46:12Chair Risch: I look forward to hearing your plans about the state department. Thank you for being with us today. Senator shaheen?
▶ 0:46:19Chair Risch: Thank you, -- Sen.
▶ 0:46:21Shaheen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you deputy secretary rigas for testifying today. Last month united states cut more than 1000 highly specialized diplomatic staff. That action is a gift to our adversaries in china and russia. China already operates one of the largest diplomatic networks with 278 missions rivaling the united states.
▶ 0:46:50Shaheen: These are not just in countries in the indo pacific and africa. When we were in france earlier this summer for the paris air show what we were told is china had an expanding presence at the air show and they had opened three new consulates in france and had over 20 confucius centers.
▶ 0:47:15Shaheen: We should assume this is happening not just in parts of the world where our allies and partners are operating happening all over. The reductions put america at a disadvantage on everything from negotiating trade deals and securing critical minerals to countering chinese communist party propaganda and protecting U.S. national security. While we are scaling back and retreating, beijing is increasing its diplomatic budget this year and sadly it is not just china.
▶ 0:47:47Shaheen: Russia is drafting plans modeled on the united states agency for international development to expand moscow's global influence . With the stakes so high, eliminating key diplomatic bureaus like the bureau of democracy, human rights, and labor sends the wrong message to our allies in the global south and the indo pacific and on nato's eastern flank and undermines long-term trust in the united states as a reliable ally.
▶ 0:48:15Shaheen: We know china is already saying too many of the countries where we have had programs that they cannot trust the united states. We are not a reliable ally. The department wrote this restructuring would allow the department to "shape a diplomatic vision that delivers for our nation long into the future." cutting staff by 15%, slashing the diplomatic budget by more than 80% undermines that vision
▶ 0:48:45Shaheen: And could set us back a generation. I support reform and modernization. I think most of the members of this committee do. If this administration and secretary rubio had come to congress on reform they would have found a partner. The department has moved forward despite congressional holds and has ignore the laws that has been set up by this body and as a result of the process has been chaotic and haphazard. Let me give you a few examples which you may or may not have heard about.
▶ 0:49:17Shaheen: Those staff people who were supporting secretary rubio's trip to asia were caught while the sec. It was in route home from malaysia. Foreign services training for the next mission critical post abroad were fired with no warning after we had paid to train them. Civil service employees working on top administration priorities are fired based on old assignments, not based on what they were doing currently. Others received termination notices by mistake.
▶ 0:49:48Shaheen: The confusion has left vital positions vacant. We need public affairs officers in ukraine to combat russian disinformation. We need political affairs officers in georgia where we are seeing month after month of widespread repression. We need consular affairs officers in columbia to process visas and reduce passports and address the fentanyl traffic coming into the united states.
▶ 0:50:16Shaheen: We need chemical weapons in syria to prevent terrorists from getting those materials. Yet these are among the people who were fired on friday. Earlier this month I along with my democratic colleagues introduce the protecting america's diplomatic workforce act.
▶ 0:50:33Shaheen: This is legislation to ensure that before there are large stale cash before their large-scale staff terminations the department -- before there are large-scale staff terminations the department justifies them and assesses the impact on national security. Removing these is not streamlining the bureaucracy, it weakens our alliances and increases the risk of conflict and puts americans at danger.
▶ 0:50:58Shaheen: Deputy secretary rigas, while many of these changes work implemented under doge the responsibility now rests with you and this committee expects answers. Given these decisions were not based on performance or evaluations or merit I hope you will be able to explain how determinations were made about which staff and bureaus to eliminate and how these efforts make america safer, stronger, and more prosperous.
▶ 0:51:27Shaheen: So far we've not seen any evidence of that. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:51:31Chair Risch: With that Mr. rigas the floor is yours for an approximate five minute opening statement and if you have other remarks we will be happy to put them into the record and then we will open it up to questions. The floor is yours.
▶ 0:51:48Mr. Rigas: Good morning chairman risch, ranking member shaheen, and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me here to speak about the president's 2026 budget request for the department of state totaling $28.5 billion. The figure is a decrease of 40% below the fy 2025 appropriations .
▶ 0:52:12Mr. Rigas: As the deputy secretary for management and resources it is my responsibility to ensure we are good stewards of the taxpayer dollars you entrust us and provide to the department and they are spent in accordance with the goals of the president and the secretary. Our budget request reflects secretary rubio's departmentwide reorganization and the work we are doing to make the state department a more efficient and effective organization, better able to advance the core interests of the american people
▶ 0:52:42Mr. Rigas: And accountable to the american taxpayers. As secretary rubio has stated we must reform and streamline the state department so it becomes an effective instrument of american foreign policy. When the secretary announced the departments reorganization plan april 22, the department had over 1500 office units in the united states alone. This for an organization that implements foreign policy.
▶ 0:53:11Mr. Rigas: Any foreign policy decision or statement or action must pass through more than a dozen or more separate offices for review and clearance before it even reaches a senior state department official to approve a course of action. This time-consuming and bureaucratic process is no way to run a department in the modern age. We must move at the speed of relevance.
▶ 0:53:34Mr. Rigas: The reorganization will merge, eliminate, or streamline nearly 45% of the departments domestic offices. Moving forward every bureau and office will have a clear mission and purpose. We want to empower our ambassadors and diplomats in the field and our regional bureaus in washington to push forward the president's america first foreign policy agenda and deliver results for the american people.
▶ 0:54:00Mr. Rigas: For too long single issue offices have mushroomed in number and influence, often distorting our foreign policy objectives to serve their specific interests, slowing down our ability to function. This reorganization includes a new approach to foreign assistance. As of july 1 usaid no longer implements foreign assistance.
▶ 0:54:24Mr. Rigas: Secretary rubio has ushered in a new era where the state department takes the lead and utilizes foreign assistance as a core tool of strategic investment and engagement of the united states. The state department will now directly administer foreign assistance and other functions and programs that align with the administration priorities are also being transitioned to state.
▶ 0:54:46Mr. Rigas: The integration will better align our foreign aid with our foreign policy objectives and will ensure that every taxpayer dollars spent is justified by its benefit to american national interest. Too often we have funneled billions of dollars into assistance projects that host governments did not want and that led to no tangible benefits to the american people.
▶ 0:55:11Mr. Rigas: Too often we have tried to impose divisive ideologies on other countries which push away potential allies and partners into the hands of china, russia, and others. Too often we have failed to leverage our generosity and good relations to bring home real achievements for the american people, save american people who bankroll programs for decades which have not provided tangible benefits to their own communities.
▶ 0:55:38Mr. Rigas: As the secretary noted the countries that benefit most from our generosity often fail to reciprocate that support. Sub-saharan african nations voted with united states only 29% of the time on essential u.n. Resolutions in 2020 three despite receiving billions in assistance paid for by the american people. Going forward, the united states will remain the largest foreign aid donor in the world by a wide margin.
▶ 0:56:09Mr. Rigas: China and russia do not deliver the kind of lifesaving assistance the american people have provided through usaid and state for decades and there is no sign this will change. Our focus will be on trade, not paid. We will always -- on trade, not aid and will always advance the interests of the united states. We will continue to build and cultivate positive constructive relationships with the governments and peoples of the world.
▶ 0:56:42Mr. Rigas: Congress and american taxpayers expect us to deliver results for the american people. I look forward to working with secretary rubio and this committee to deliver those results. As I have said before I know that every dollar we spent and every program we fund comes from the labor of the taxpaying american families. Our goal is to have a state department that is accountable to the american people and effective in unleashing the potential of the world's most talented diplomatic workforce.
▶ 0:57:12Mr. Rigas: Thank you for having me here today and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:57:16Chair Risch: Thank you and thank you for pointing out the fact that we beat ourselves up a lot over this that and the other thing but there is no more generous country on the planet and the united states of america or the united states taxpayers. We have done tremendous amounts and we really do not get the appreciation for it here. You're pointing out of how the votes at the u.n. Go -- those votes are to be taken note of.
▶ 0:57:48Chair Risch: I am always impressed when I'm dealing with other countries that they are looking for something like building a nuclear plant or something like that that they really want to deal with americans. Why is that? We are who we are. It is really important to stress that. Who the american people are, what our values are. One of the things that distinguishes us from other countries is the fact that we have a rule of law. In china you have no rule of law.
▶ 0:58:19Chair Risch: You are at the beck and call in the mercy of the chinese communist party. People know that, businessmen know that and that is why they want to deal with americans. When you are doing management changes are always difficult. I get that. The other thing I would point out that I think you do not talk about and I would like you to talk about, this is not a one and done.
▶ 0:58:46Chair Risch: This is a every day all day reassessment of where you are and what you're doing and this is obviously a big step to start with. I am assuming there is going to be a phase two at some point. Talk about the ongoing efforts after this initial step.
▶ 0:59:03Mr. Rigas: Thank you for that question. Like any large organization we need to continue to review and evaluate how we operate and how we are effectively delivering on the president's policy priorities all over the world. This reorganization was informed by the senior leadership in the career foreign service and senior civil servant officials at the department.
▶ 0:59:31Mr. Rigas: We asked them what works and what does not work and how would you like to operate, what are the pain points you have experienced getting things done and these are people who served in republican and democratic administrations and gave us feedback on where they would like to see reforms implemented at the department of state.
▶ 0:59:50Mr. Rigas: We told them this reorganization we wanted to focus on our domestic footprint and make sure we were doing what we needed to reorient the department and focus on the critical foreign policy function is designed to deliver on. We will continue to do that. It will be an iterative process looking at how things work and how they do not work. We will always be finding inefficiencies and how things happen. It is natural in any large department and the government or the private sector.
▶ 1:00:20Mr. Rigas: I have served in both. Government is home to inefficiency. Plenty of that in the private sector as well. It is incumbent on leaders to look at how they are delivering and come up with opportunities to improve.
▶ 1:00:37Chair Risch: I am always impressed when I go out of the country and for that matter here about how state department employees are probably the least partisan of any government agency there is. I am always impressed with the way they conduct themselves, the way they treat us when we are out in the field.
▶ 1:00:58Chair Risch: I have to say that I am glad to hear what you said and that is that these people were consulted about going forward what works and what does not because I have found them never to be bashful when you ask them what do we do better. I am glad to hear that. I assume you are familiar with my embassy construction and counterterrorism act.
▶ 1:01:23Chair Risch: I've not been fully satisfied with the way it has been implemented in the embassy and the legislation. Tell me your thoughts on those.
▶ 1:01:34Mr. Rigas: Thank you for that question. We just onboarded a new head of the office of overseas billing operations, someone with extensive experience in this area and I have discussed this act and also our desire to engage in what we called expeditionary diplomacy, making sure our ambassadors are engaging with the foreign governments they are sent to engage with.
▶ 1:02:03Mr. Rigas: Engaging with a local business communities and population and doing everything they can to advance america's national and foreign policy and security and economic interests. It is hard to do that if you are hunkered down in a bunker that is masquerading as an embassy.
▶ 1:02:19Mr. Rigas: There are parts of the world that are very dangerous and high threat environments and you need to have a secure environment but to the extent we can find safe ways to make sure our ambassadors and diplomats are getting out and engaging and looking at what our friends and allies in those countries are doing and how they are going about their business is a good way to inform what we are doing, and also just the cost going into some of the construction projects are too high.
▶ 1:02:50Mr. Rigas: Requirements we have, there are a lot of security requirements. Figuring out how to make those replicate double so we are not reinventing the wheel -- replicatable so we are not reinventing the wheel in every country where we build an embassy. We can have more companies built. -- we can have more companies bid.
▶ 1:03:17Mr. Rigas: Someone told me there only two general contractors and that is not a recipe for competition or driving costs down when you have a duopoly. We want to increase competition while building safe and secure embassies for diplomats overseas.
▶ 1:03:32Chair Risch: I appreciate that. Your point is well taken. Every single construction project is different. The security of every country is different. You have to build a very secure environment. I appreciate your attention to that. Senator shaheen?
▶ 1:03:54Sen. Shaheen: Thank you Mr. chairman. I agree that people want to deal with united states because of our values and we have been a very generous country and that has made a difference for so many people around the world.
▶ 1:04:08Sen. Shaheen: That is why I find it so distressing when there are reports we are destroying 500 tons of food that could feed 1.5 million children a week and we are destroying it because -- for no other reason than the administration put a hold on giving that foreign assistance out to people and so now it is spoiled. I do not think that is consistent with the values of the united states were consistent with american taxpayers and how they want to see their money spent.
▶ 1:04:39Sen. Shaheen: I asked for a list of offices and bureaus affected by the personnel cuts that took place on friday. I've not received anything yet. My team has been able to uncover some of the cuts that are concerning. I want to ask you what you know about some of those charts.
▶ 1:04:58Sen. Shaheen: Are you aware that on friday you fire up the entire office of casualty assistance and to be clear for people who are watching, this is an office set up after the nairobi al qaeda bombings in 1998 to assist family members of U.S. personnel and citizens who died overseas. The entire team was fired friday in the midst of trying to bring back an american citizen who had died overseas. I do not think the family thinks that is a good firing.
▶ 1:05:29Sen. Shaheen: Were you aware of that?
▶ 1:05:31Mr. Rigas: I was aware. That function is being folded into another office.
▶ 1:05:37Sen. Shaheen: How are we handling the body of the person who died overseas who no longer has someone to help them. Can you please find an answer to that? I will not ask you to answer now because he will not have an answer and we need accurate answer. Are you aware you fired the consular affairs bureau and or shortest consular affairs would not be affected by these cuts?
▶ 1:06:03Mr. Rigas: The individuals in consular affairs were processing passports, that function was not touched. Other functions which have a management remit and can be combined into other offices, we did find efficiencies and economies of scale to find economy as were doing auditing and human resources functions, billing that were resident in numerous bureaus were consolidated into the offices or
▶ 1:06:33Mr. Rigas: To the undersecretary and many were moved were consolidated into the management bureau itself.
▶ 1:06:39Sen. Shaheen: I would appreciate if you would provide the committee the information about how that reorganization is happening since we have asked you for that information in the past. You mentioned the bureau of overseas building operations and the chairman was asking about that. About 50% of that office was terminated.
▶ 1:07:01Sen. Shaheen: Five civil servants out of 13 who handled not only architecture but also serve as building code officials were terminated as well as 10 civil servants were ripped out of 14 in the office that management -- that manages space planning requirements. Do you know how many personnel were terminated and the bureau of international narcotics and law enforcement? This is the bureau responsible for preventing drugs and criminals from reaching america.
▶ 1:07:31Mr. Rigas: That bureau was combined with another bureau so the essential function of the international narcotics bureau remains, it was just combined.
▶ 1:07:42Sen. Shaheen: How many were fired?
▶ 1:07:44Mr. Rigas: I believe the entire office.
▶ 1:07:48Sen. Shaheen: Who has the expertise that is lost from that office if they have all been fired?
▶ 1:07:53Mr. Rigas: I can give you the name of the combined office. There were numerous offices of the department that had an overlapping responsibility and redundant capabilities.
▶ 1:08:06Sen. Shaheen: Why is the department letting diplomats go we have invested years in training and language skills? Some of those who have been let go are fluent in five or six languages. Was there an assessment of the expertise it was losing in these layoffs and how was that assessment done? Is it a written evaluation? Is it an assessment of what the needs are in the future for the department?
▶ 1:08:32Mr. Rigas: What we did is in the instance where offices were combined you have a competitive area, each office is its own competitive area. This was the most complicated reduction in force ever conducted by the federal government. We did it in consultation with the office of personnel management. We hired professionals to help us run this program.
▶ 1:08:58Mr. Rigas: What you do this after asking your senior leadership what are the functions you need to carry out this mission and what positions and what skill sets you need and what level of experience do you need to execute on this mission and you say you only need 25 people in this office but we are combining an office that has 75 people, what opm does is take everyone's experience and expertise,
▶ 1:09:28Mr. Rigas: Veterans preference, and they compete them against each other for each position in the combined area. While there are people that have skills and experience who were part of the reduction force you can take some comfort to know -- no one wantss to be the one receiving the reduction force -- but the people who remained were the ones that ranked the highest under this merit systems process that ensure the highest skilled, most tenured, people with
▶ 1:10:00Mr. Rigas: Highest numbers of years of experience are the people that remained.
▶ 1:10:04Sen. Shaheen: Do you have anything written that shows how this process was done?
▶ 1:10:08Mr. Rigas: Certainly.
▶ 1:10:10Sen. Shaheen: D provide the committee with that information? -- can you provide the committee with the information?
▶ 1:10:19Mr. Rigas: Absolutely.
▶ 1:10:21Chair Risch: That is good information. Your explanation of how this was scientifically approached and looking to keep the best people in the three agencies as you combine them into one is a superb way of doing it. Thank you for that clear explanation. Senator ricketts?
▶ 1:10:45Sen. Ricketts: Thank you for being here. Perhaps you've heard the phrase that if everything is a priority nothing is a priority. Secretary rubio says if I show you a short of what the state department used to look like and what it looks like today it is unrecognizable. So I decided to have the chart. This is the chart from 2000. I'm not expecting you to be able to read it.
▶ 1:11:15Sen. Ricketts: It is a visual representation of what the different offices and agencies were looking like. Let's show the one for after the biden administration. Hold both up. If you look at it, just visually you can see it is a lot more complicated after the biden administration. I count there are 16 additional bureaus and offices that were added over the last two decades.
▶ 1:11:43Sen. Ricketts: To me this is an indication there could be bureaucratic bloke in your organization similar to what you just described. At that organization should not change. Organizations should change and adapt to new circumstances. Deputy secretary, your position was not even around a few years ago. More it not translate to better.
▶ 1:12:09Sen. Ricketts: Deputy secretary rigas, can you explain how the difference in the two different org charts demonstrate the challenges the state department has faced in terms of efficiency and agility and how your proposed reorganization will address this?
▶ 1:12:29Mr. Rigas: I appreciate that question. As I noted we ask the people at the top of each of those, there are six under secretaries, about their bureaus that report to them and ask them what works and what does not work, where do we consolidate functions? You have run a large organization. These things come up over time. You have some issue of the day that needs to be addressed and it is a real problem.
▶ 1:12:59Mr. Rigas: You create an office to address it. They probably did a good job and it rested and then five years later it may be the problem is not salient or as urgent but the bureau remains. What we have looked at is some of the issues need day-to-day management. Maybe they can be combined with another bureau that does similar functions. We had three offices that dealt with sanctions and we said sanctions are important but do we need three offices?
▶ 1:13:30Mr. Rigas: Can it be done in one office? The same thing with nuclear proliferation. The state department had absorbed an agency years ago that had remained its own bureau. We asked how can we continue to execute on these important missions but do it in the most efficient and effective way possible so you have clear lines of accountability and a better use of resources.
▶ 1:13:54Sen. Ricketts: You mentioned I was governor, I was governor of nebraska. One of the things we focused on was government efficiency. We combined agencies together. One of the other things we did is we trained 30,000 people in the process improvement methodology we discussed using the private sector to eliminate waste, redundant steps, reduce cost, and improve service.
▶ 1:14:23Sen. Ricketts: Because of that investment we were able to save our state teammates 900,000 hours of their time by finding steps to reduce the amount of time it took to do things and saves taxpayers $115 million. The private sector has competition to drive that. The government does not. That is why it is so important we have leaders to take the steps to try to drive these things.
▶ 1:14:49Sen. Ricketts: When we spoke before your nomination hearing I appreciate your focus on personnel -- I agree with what you said, personnel is policy and process is performance. The state reorganization chart reflects priorities, so what is your plan to go beyond for service and get rid of waste and inefficiency?
▶ 1:15:16Mr. Rigas: That is a kind of daily exercise when you are in the business of management. Asking how things work, how do we make them work better? We are going to take a hot minute here to let the new organization sort of settle in the end over the next few weeks or so in which bureaus are combined they will come together under new leadership. I think it is a daily iterative process to say what are we doing.
▶ 1:15:46Mr. Rigas: You see it come up every day. Why did we get this complaint about what's happening here? It's an opportunity to say how did this happen, drill down, how can we prevent it. Is there a step that should be there?
▶ 1:16:11Mr. Rigas: There's a constant evaluation about what we are trying to do, whether it is for safe and secure buildings at a price to the taxpayer that we can justify or whether it is delivering on passports to americans. Doing that in under two weeks now rather than the standard for weeks to six weeks, I think we are doing a good job there.
▶ 1:16:30Mr. Rigas: There are always constituents coming up with visa issues, looking at how we are dealing with our trading partners, that's a big thing that the president has really led the way on or where the state department will be right behind him, making sure that we are able to deliver for american businesses and workers. Also on shore some of these critical national security functions and supply chains as well.
▶ 1:16:57Sen. Ricketts: Thank you deputy secretary. I asked one of your predecessors what the process was for past -- passport applications, they didn't even have one. The fact you have standards is a good start for delivering for the american people.
▶ 1:17:14Sen. Ricketts: I would recommend that you formalize that process through elite six sigma where you formalize and train people in how to do it so that it isn't just one offs the way it could be like hey, we have a problem, but you make it a formal process, part of the culture, and thank you for letting me go over.
▶ 1:17:34Chair Risch: Mr. ricketts, you are looking at three get former governors who came from the private sector. Senator ricketts, that comment about the fact that the private sector has a way of dealing with this? Competition between companies makes efficiency necessary.
▶ 1:17:56Chair Risch: All of us, when we took office, speaking for myself, but I suspect also my colleagues here had the same reaction, just what you said, there is into that. If there isn't that competition for efficiency in government, it takes a strong hand at the tiller to do this.
▶ 1:18:15Chair Risch: The good news in america is that we change administrations at the state and federal level and that these things you are doing right now, I have to say I doubt any one of the three of us had any kind of magnitude of reorganization like you had. Thank you for your explanation. With that, senator -- who's your first? Were you here first? Why don't you take the floor?
▶ 1:18:44Senator: Thank you, ranking member, deputy secretary. We agree that these are core goals of the U.S. state department and foreign policy. We have to win the global tech competition with china. Quantum. Countering p.r.c. Aggression in the south china sea and beyond. We need to bring home american citizens who were detained.
▶ 1:19:12Senator: Do everything we can to stop iran from building a nuclear weapon and we have to bring about a just and lasting and to the war in ukraine. Any disagreement?
▶ 1:19:21Mr. Rigas: Not at all.
▶ 1:19:22Sen. Coons: I worked in the private sector, was a county executive, led reorganizations and I will tell you, I'm much less concerned about the cleaner and more concise org chart. That makes general sense. I have signed up to work with senator hagerty on a bipartisan reform and reorganization that may end up being less relevant after some of these actions. But the thing I focus on the most is talent.
▶ 1:19:51Sen. Coons: Talent and skills lesson title and function. My concern about the rift that you've lead that has pushed 1300 people out the door is that the way it was done has caused us huge talent. For example, these rifts, as I have understood it from folks inside the department, were not in fact wide open competitions based on skill and talent.
▶ 1:20:19Sen. Coons: You rewrote the foreign service manual, came up with hundreds of competition boxes, and put a very small number of people competing against each other fixed based on where they were serving on may 29 and in many cases, forcing them to compete against one other person. As you heard from the ranking member, some of the concerns that I have got about the skills and talent that just went out the door are at the top of the list for me.
▶ 1:20:48Sen. Coons: Top experts on ai, quantum, 5g, and cyber, the folks who are working on preventing proliferation to china walked out the door. Staff from the bureau of east asia pacific affairs to craft our efforts to push back on p.r.c. Aggression in the south china sea walked out the door. The staff that worked with our partners walked out the door right after secretary rubio attended a summit.
▶ 1:21:17Sen. Coons: We both agree that we care about ending the risk of iran getting a nuclear weapon, yet you literally just fire department experts on nuclear proliferation , including experts with decades of expertise on iranian nuclear weapons programs, ending the russian invasion of ukraine but the intelligence analysts with decades of experience walked out the door.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Coons: Claiming that you have consolidated offices in the interest of efficiency I think misses the point that this competition was done in a sloppy, rushed way that has caused us decades of experience. To this point, and I urged the other deputy secretary and secretary to consider this point, you should facilitate a more robust process for allowing
▶ 1:22:11Sen. Coons: Reassignment of rift employees who are on administrative leave at the moment. I think you have lost key and essential skills and talent from within the ranks of our foreign service. The chairman and the ranking member recognized in their previous comments that these are dedicated, loyal, career professionals who bring their service overseas every day, bringing rivers of talent. I recognize that you're trying to clean up the wire chart and close down the single issue offices. I'm not quibbling over that.
▶ 1:22:40Sen. Coons: What I am disagreeing with vigorously is the way that this rushed process led to folks with decades of relevant senior experience in technical and intelligence operational areas that are not easily repeated. Will you consider allowing for a broader competition amongst and between those who have been rift and the thousands of jobs that remain open and unfilled?
▶ 1:23:05Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the question. The rift process as established does allow for -- the bump and retreat I described where you compete people against skills, experience, tenure language, whatever, that same process works in reverse when there are openings that people can apply for.
▶ 1:23:29Mr. Rigas: As there are openings available for people to be considered for, they can certainly -- no one is preventing them from necessarily coming back into the department if there is a position that's open and being competitively hired for.
▶ 1:23:42Sen. Coons: File folks are on administrative leave following friday's rift, they can compete to return to service for open positions?
▶ 1:23:51Mr. Rigas: Yes, the caveat being that there is a governmentwide hiring freeze right now.
▶ 1:23:57Sen. Coons: So the answer is no.
▶ 1:23:59Mr. Rigas: For the time being.
▶ 1:24:01Sen. Coons: Two more observations. China is expanding their diplomatic footprint around the world. Our global competition with china and something I have heard every member talk about, including our secretary when he served on this committee. You are proposing a budget cut of 50% to the U.S. state department. I don't think it's wise. I don't think we can afford it. I don't support it. Frankly I think that finding efficiency is always a good thing.
▶ 1:24:31Sen. Coons: Finding efficiencies that costs skill, talent, and ability, not a good thing. Cutting this department in half in the middle of a critical competition globally at the same time that we walk away from aid is a horrible idea. Trade, not aid. I have repeated that line here when I helped to build the development finance corporation in a bipartisan way. A bill that trump signed into law in his first term. Trade is often preferable to aid .
▶ 1:25:00Sen. Coons: But trade when the president is leading chaotically in a hard to decipher tariff fight with not just adversaries but allies means that trade as a promise of how we will extend our engagement and influence in the world is likely to fail. We should not cut this department in half. We should not walk out the door the most talented people. We should not replace or in aid with the unlikely to succeed promise of trade.
▶ 1:25:28Sen. Coons: We don't seem to have a clear and consistent strategy for how to use that trade. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:25:39Senator: How many people work for the state department?
▶ 1:25:41Mr. Rigas: We have over -- I can give you the exact number now -- I believe it's over 70,000 work for the state department between foreign service, civil service, and locally employed. >> I didn't pick that up. How many people?
▶ 1:26:00Mr. Rigas: It is over -- I can give you it exactly -- it is over 70,000. >> 70,000? [inaudible]
▶ 1:26:09Mr. Rigas: Thank you. >> 76,000, I think I heard. I know that some people in washington think that bigger government is always better. People talk a good talk when it comes to efficiency.
▶ 1:26:34Mr. Rigas: But don't you dare try to cut any of the bloated bureaucracy in order to achieve that efficiency. It's a no-win proposition seems to me in the minds of a common mindset here in washington, D.C. how many people are you talking about riffing?
▶ 1:26:50Mr. Rigas: 1300.
▶ 1:26:54Senator: Out of 76,000? I was never good at math, but that's a pretty small percentage of the overall number of employees at the state department.
▶ 1:27:05Mr. Rigas: Yes.
▶ 1:27:06Sen. Coons: In european, in the opinion of secretary rubio, can you all do the job with the current budget requests that are, as you pointed out, 48% below last year's request?
▶ 1:27:19Mr. Rigas: We do.
▶ 1:27:20Sen. Coons: How in the world can you do that?
▶ 1:27:24Mr. Rigas: We are looking at the key functions that the department does, ensuring that our diplomatic functions are continuing. A lot of that reduction was in the foreign assistance budget.
▶ 1:27:40Mr. Rigas: So, we have requested the america first opportunity fund, which will be a pool from which the secretary can direct foreign assistance be given either directly bilaterally to countries or to multilateral institutions, depending on where he assesses. We will get the best return on investment and have the highest likelihood for advancing the president possible foreign policy priorities.
▶ 1:28:04Senator: So, for those of us concerned about american representation around the world our diplomacy, do our ambassadors play a key role in that?
▶ 1:28:18Mr. Rigas: Certainly. The reorganization is designed to empower ambassadors and regional bureaus, people at the tip of the spear when it comes to engaging diplomatically with the rest of the world. That is where we want the power in the decision-making to rest in the department, rather than in these bureaus back in washington, D.C.
▶ 1:28:41Sen. Coons: I know the chairman and the committee have done a good job moving ambassadors through the committee, but by my count there are currently 29 senate confirmed positions for ambassadors around the country waiting for confirmation on the senate floor. Would it be helpful to our diplomatic efforts for the senate to get off the dime and actually confirm those nominees?
▶ 1:29:10Mr. Rigas: It certainly would and it would help -- it would send a message to the rest of the world that this person represents the president and they can have confidence when they are dealing with this person that they speak for the president of the united states.
▶ 1:29:28Sen. Coons: -- senator: so, blocking or slow walking these nominees is not achieving the goal of enhancing our presence around the world?
▶ 1:29:39Mr. Rigas: It's not helpful.
▶ 1:29:41Senator: How many people who work for the state department are political appointees as opposed to career individuals? Do you know the breakdown?
▶ 1:29:50Mr. Rigas: We have something like 100 right now political appointees.
▶ 1:30:00Senator: So only 100 out of the 76,000 are trump appointees?
▶ 1:30:05Mr. Rigas: Correct.
▶ 1:30:06Senator: The rest of them are largely career folks who have been there forever? Or at least for a long time?
▶ 1:30:13Mr. Rigas: Yes.
▶ 1:30:14Senator: Is it hard for an administration coming into office having campaigned on a particular platform or agenda to come in and actually execute that platform or agenda when all you have is 100 people there are pursuing the same goal, but perhaps thousands of career people at the state department are doing their best to undermine that, that, that, what you are trying to accomplish?
▶ 1:30:45Mr. Rigas: It certainly makes it harder to do our job and advance presidential policy priorities without the team that we need in place.
▶ 1:30:55Senator: And that is why you think you can do more with less in terms of the budget in the number of employees?
▶ 1:31:02Mr. Rigas: Yes.
▶ 1:31:04Senator: Thank you.
▶ 1:31:06Chair Risch: Senator king?
▶ 1:31:09Senator King: I yield to senator rosen, as well as I can come next.
▶ 1:31:14Chair Risch: Glad you have that figured out. Senator rosen, you're up.
▶ 1:31:21Senator Rosen: Appreciated, dueling committees going on. Thank you to Mr. rigas for joining us today. As I stated yesterday, the state department recent reductions in force should be upsetting to anyone who cares about U.S. national security.
▶ 1:31:38Senator Rosen: From the departmental misguided reorganization to the plans to rift our closure of the usaid this administration's approach to national security and foreign policy is deeply troubling and is providing opportunities left and right for our adversaries like the p.r.c. To put -- to fill the gaps. We will talk about that and I will turn to my first question about counterterrorism.
▶ 1:32:03Senator Rosen: The state bureau of counterterrorism posters national security by playing a leading role in developing coordinated strategies and approaches to defeat terrorism abroad. Terrorism abroad doesn't stay abroad, let's put it that way. In the recent decisions from the administration around ct work, it could lead to an increase in terrorist threats across the globe.
▶ 1:32:28Senator Rosen: So, deputy secretary it appears to be a part of the departmental organization that the ct bureau has terminated dozens of programs that support countries to counter ct threats that again we are pretty sure they don't always stay in those countries. With the closure of usaid and the office of countering violent extremism, it remains unclear what if any programs will exist to prevent the recruitment of desperate people to terrorism.
▶ 1:32:59Senator Rosen: Desperate people get recruited to terrorism every day around the globe. Do you believe that these changes could lead to an increase in ct threats around the united states?
▶ 1:33:08Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the senator, question. The bureau of counterterrorism was merged with the international --
▶ 1:33:16Sen. Rosen: I'm asking what you believe. Do you believe that these changes will lead to an increase or not?
▶ 1:33:22Mr. Rigas: So, the essentials -- essential functions will remain. The key functions will still be executed, they just won't be done --
▶ 1:33:32Sen. Rosen: What about the staff that counter anti-semitism and white nationalism. They have been rift. We know that this is a problem around the world, particularly since october 7. Can you confirm if the department will continue to counter white nationalism and anti-semitism overseas?
▶ 1:33:50Mr. Rigas: As I describe the process, the people with the greatest level of experience, the longest tenure, the best language skills, they are the people who are competed against in a combined organization. So, even though there were people with skills and experience got rift --
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Rosen: How many staff do you expect across these bureaus?
▶ 1:34:15Mr. Rigas: I can get you that number of the combined offices.
▶ 1:34:18Sen. Rosen: Are any of the advisors going to the bureau of european eurasian affairs? Are there proposals to go to other regional euros? Do you know that?
▶ 1:34:33Mr. Rigas: The idea behind reorganization was to move these functions into individual post levels so that the people engaging in diplomacy are on the ground.
▶ 1:34:43Mr. Rigas: -- Sen. rosen: can you commit to continuing to provide us with reports across these new reorganizations? It's extremely important to the people of united states and around the globe. I'm asking you if you will commit to coming back to this committee to it on the workforce that you have working.
▶ 1:35:06Mr. Rigas: Certainly.
▶ 1:35:08Sen. Rosen: Moving on to women and girls, I'm deeply concerned about the proposal to eliminate the office of global women's issues. Gw I. The decision to eliminate -- it really seems like all of the staff, all of it, from the office this past friday. Does the state department plan to implement a policy that empowers women and girls in advances women's rights? Yes or no is simple.
▶ 1:35:36Mr. Rigas: Certainly. The needs of women in japan are different than the needs of women in guatemala, pakistan, or germany. So, having a sort of more finely tuned approach is what we are going for.
▶ 1:35:52Sen. Rosen: I believe that if we abandon women and girls around the globe we promote instability in families and nations around the world and that again relates to desperate people turning to terrorism in order to take care of their families. We know that women are often the glue that keeps stability going on, so I hope that you continue to focus on this issue and I look forward to working with you on that. Only six seconds.
▶ 1:36:21Sen. Rosen: I would like to know for the record about how many saft have been let go and what your proposals are going forward. We will submit that for the record and look forward to your answer. Thank you again, senator king. Mr. chairman?
▶ 1:36:33Chair Risch: Senator king, you made the deal. You are up.
▶ 1:36:41Senator King: Good to see you again. I would like to introduce into the record an article from reuters entitled exclusive U.S. aid cuts leave millions in food moldering in storage. Let me just read some excerpts from the article came out two months of today. Ration supply two point 3 million people for a month or moldering in warehouses around the world because of aid cuts becoming unstable.
▶ 1:37:08Senator King: Food stocks stuck inside of four government warehouses since the trump administration decisions in january to cut global aid programs. A spokesperson for the state department said in response that they were working to ensure the un-interrupted continuation of aid programs and a transfer by july as a part of the decommissioning process, usaid continuously consulting with
▶ 1:37:38Senator King: Partners on where to best distribute commodities at these warehouses. A proposal to hand of the stocks to aid organizations is on hold. Finally, nearly 500 tons of high-energy biscuits stored in dubai are due to expire in july according to an official.
▶ 1:38:00Senator King: They could feed at least 27,000 acutely malnourished children for a month and are likely to now be destroyed or turned into animal feed. That article was from two months ago and yesterday the atlantic reported that the expiration date on those 500 pounds of nutritious food for starving kids was upon us and the U.S. had decided to incinerate the food rather than allow starving children to have it.
▶ 1:38:28Senator King: The deputy secretary for management and resources, these are resources that were purchased with U.S. taxpayer dollars. Specifically designed to save the lives of starving children. Why is it a good use of resources to not distribute that food to kids and instead burn it?
▶ 1:38:45Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the question. I would have to take to see how those foodstuffs got there.
▶ 1:38:59Sen. King: I asked this question yesterday so that you would be prepared and we called to tell you that I would ask you today. The notion that you need to look into it strikes me as odd. As you sit here today, is that food being distributed to kids or incinerated?
▶ 1:39:15Mr. Rigas: If it is expired, my understanding is that the policy of the government is to not distribute expired food or medicine.
▶ 1:39:23Sen. King: Given that this has been written about for months and the article in march was not the first, we have been asking secretary rubio about this back into march. Since it has been known for months that this food would have an expiration date, why has the state department decided to burn it rather than distribute to starving children?
▶ 1:39:45Mr. Rigas: I don't have a good answer for that question. I'm as distressed about that as you are.
▶ 1:39:52Sen. King: So, I'm going to ask you, does that make you feel ashamed, proud of it, or indifferent?
▶ 1:39:58Mr. Rigas: I'm not going to say that I'm ashamed, proud, or indifferent towards it. It was a failure.
▶ 1:40:05Sen. King: How about this is a statement of tax proposition, if we use taxpayer dollars to purchase specialty foods for children, I think it's better the food be distributed to starving children rather than incinerated.
▶ 1:40:20Mr. Rigas: I agree. This was just a casualty.
▶ 1:40:25Sen. King: I view it as intentional. Because if we suddenly woke up in july and said the expiration date is today, that would be one thing. But in march? There was a request by the world food program and others saying look if you won't distributed, maybe you decided in the U.S. that starving kids are no longer your thing, but you have this asset that if you won't distributed, we will distributed.
▶ 1:40:51Sen. King: So, it's not a mistake if you have been on notice of it for two months and you made the decision to keep the warehouse locked and allow this food to be destroyed rather than be, again I think the article says that this would feed at least 27,000 acutely malnourished children for a month. I mean, is this incompetence or cool or both?
▶ 1:41:14Mr. Rigas: I would have to look into the facts of the matter. If there was another aid organization asking for access to that to deliver it?
▶ 1:41:22Sen. King: I want you to look into it. I would -- I had really hope you would have come to me having been put on notice I was going to ask this, let's give the food to kids. You want to be you, who's the most famous bu alum next to you?
▶ 1:41:38Mr. Rigas: Not sure, don't want to offend anyone.
▶ 1:41:41Sen. King: I will tell you who it is. It's martin luther king jr.. What do you think he would say about a nation that purchased food for starving kids and then locked it in a warehouse until it expired and then incinerated it rather than giving it out so that 27,000 starving kids could survive meagerly for one more month?
▶ 1:42:02Mr. Rigas: We are still the biggest giver of aid anywhere in the world by far.
▶ 1:42:09Sen. King: I will conclude. Mr. chair, a lot of complicated issues. Sometimes the tiniest details exposes the soul. We had a big bill that increased the deficit, cut snap, all of that, but a government that has put on notice, here are resources that will save 27,000 starving kids, can you please distribute them or give them to someone who can who decides no,
▶ 1:42:40Sen. King: We would rather keep the warehouse locked, let the food expire, then burn it? To me that really exposes the soul of this endeavor. I'm glad to hear you at least say that my questions cause you some concern.
▶ 1:42:56Mr. Rigas: I did say that. I will say it again. Look, this is a media account. Forgive me if I don't always take everything reported in the media to be 100% factual, but I do want to find out what happened here and get to the ground truth.
▶ 1:43:12Sen. King: Thank you.
▶ 1:43:13Chair Risch: Thank you senator merkley?
▶ 1:43:18Senator Merkley: Thank you, Mr. chairman your testimony. Certainly, reorganization can eliminate efficiencies and raise a lot of questions about values. One thing I was really struck by was the new guidance that was put up for evaluating both mid-level and senior personnel in the state department. It basically uses the word fidelity.
▶ 1:43:44Senator Merkley: It essentially says -- how loyal are you and how quickly do you align yourself -- quoting -- completely align yourself with team goals? I was a state department fellow in india back in 1981 in graduate school and was later admitted to the foreign service, but I turned it down, I was working as a presidential fellow in the department of defense.
▶ 1:44:11Senator Merkley: I was really struck at the time that state department officers said -- look, we develop extraordinary expertise in the field on complicated issues around the world and we funnel that information to help the decision-makers back in D.C. make decisions.
▶ 1:44:30Senator Merkley: What I see emphasized in this list of promotion criteria, there isn't a single thing in it that says developing regional expertise, language expertise, knowledge of complex issues, informing and helping to shape the dialogue, it's nothing like that. It's all about loyalty in implementing whatever D.C. says.
▶ 1:44:51Senator Merkley: Are we completely devaluing our foreign service officers for their development of expertise that could help enlighten our own policy agenda?
▶ 1:45:01Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the question. The core precepts for promotion at the department were updated. The fidelity precept, which you just quoted, was replace the d.e.I. Precept. It calls for fidelity to the constitution of the united states and for fidelity to executing presidential policy priorities, which is part of the executive branch.
▶ 1:45:25Mr. Rigas: The president stood before the american people and went from one end of the country to the other saying what he wanted to do and that policy agenda was ratified by the voters in november and it is incumbent upon career foreign service officers and civil service officers at the state department and at indeed every other executive branch department to faithfully carry out what the president stood for before the american people.
▶ 1:45:50Mr. Rigas: So, the american people have confidence that when they go to the ballot booth and elect a president that what they voted for will get implemented.
▶ 1:45:57Sen. Merkley: I will say that the criteria did talk about how much you accentuate executive power under article two. There is a huge debate going on now, as we have seen ourselves slide into an authoritarian state about the defunding of agencies, the firing of employees, the reorganizing without congressional directorate, these are all factors assaulting the separation of powers, which is actually an assault on the constitution of the united states.
▶ 1:46:27Sen. Merkley: But I'm setting that aside for the moment, because I'm concerned about the values represented in the reorganization. An example -- firing the passport fraud operations, it makes no sense to me that our value is to allow fraud and passports. Firing the leadership team and the coordination of afghan relocation efforts, standing up for the people who stood with us in afghanistan who will we are now abandoning.
▶ 1:46:59Sen. Merkley: Abandoning our partners is not a value that I think our state department should be promoting. Third, proceeding to terminate the personnel who were taking on the issue of russian propaganda in ukraine. I do not think that promoting russian propaganda is a value that our state department should be promoting. Firing the experts on money laundering. Are you kidding me? That's our strategy, to make sure that money laundering is easier around the world?
▶ 1:47:31Sen. Merkley: Not to mention that in areas of fast changing technology, experts in technology and ai were terminated. Let's look at one other case, here, firing the team working on war crimes committed by russia ukraine. Our value is now that we don't care about war crimes? I don't think that's an american position. Finally, firing the entire bureau of energy and resources.
▶ 1:48:01Sen. Merkley: Energy is critical to the future of our economy and success in the world. These are not values that are american values. As my colleague noted, this was hastily planned, poorly coordinated, and it will do real damage to the security and success of the united states of america. Thank you very much, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:48:25Chair Risch: Senator van hollen?
▶ 1:48:29Senator Van Hollen: Thank you. Secretary rubio claimed that these big layoffs were the deliberate step of reorganizing the state department. File a senior official promised to carry them out in a manner that preserves the dignity of federal employees. In practice, the practice -- process has been botched, wasteful, and deeply disrespectful of the department of workforce.
▶ 1:48:58Senator Van Hollen: I heard the figures thrown around earlier, about 76,000 state department employees. You know very well that over 50,000 of them are foreign service nationals who helped do everything from maintained embassies and consulates to a lot of essential work. That's a misleading number. We have 14,000 plus foreign service officers and 12,000 civil servants and of them, about 1000 have been fired.
▶ 1:49:27Senator Van Hollen: These are employees with expertise in critical minerals, artificial intelligence, human rights, and consular affairs let go, along with those who are fluent in languages like chinese, arabic, russian, and farsi, many of whom received training at the taxpayers expense. Staff on parental leave were dismissed, including one person who had given birth just 12 hours earlier.
▶ 1:49:54Senator Van Hollen: The department used cheap procedural tricks to fire career officers with no regard for veteran status, performance, or tenure, directly contradicting congressional intent. At the same time, senior leadership failed to show up to thank these patriotic employees. One trump appointed deputy assistant secretary took the day off as her team working on afghan resettlement picked up pink slips.
▶ 1:50:21Senator Van Hollen: While secretary rubio met with us and counterparts in malaysia, the team that prepared his briefing materials in the bureau of east asian and pacific affairs was being fired. Mr. secretary, I hope you will agree that you have a duty to tell the truth the congress, do you?
▶ 1:50:38Mr. Rigas: Certainly.
▶ 1:50:39Sen. Van Hollen: Yesterday you testified in the house that "my understanding is that we did not make any cuts in the consular affairs bureau," but you did, did you not?
▶ 1:50:51Mr. Rigas: Right after I said that statement, the second part of that statement, the sentence immediately after that I clarified that we did not cut anyone doing passport adjudications customer service. The cuts in the consular of affairs bureau were two administrative functions, not to any of the customer service functions.
▶ 1:51:17Sen. Van Hollen: My understanding is you fired about 100 staffers, including the teams that investigate visa fraud. He also said in your house testimony that with respect to the office that prepared the secretary for his trip overseas that none of the people who prepped him were terminated. That wasn't true, was it?
▶ 1:51:36Mr. Rigas: I said that the people in the country bureaus were not let go. He was prepared by all of the people in those country bureaus and to the extent that the aussie on bureau, all of those regional offices were absorbed or their functions were absorbed by the country specific and regional --
▶ 1:51:57Sen. Van Hollen: With respect, the message suggested that the folks who had prepared him for that important trip, that none of them had been fired.
▶ 1:52:09Mr. Rigas: It's possible. A lot of people can contribute to when the secretary travels. An entire organization steps in to support his travel. Is it possible that someone could have contributed in some way to his trip was a part of reduction in force? It certainly possible.
▶ 1:52:26Sen. Van Hollen: You also said that it only affected the domestic footprint of the state department. But in fact, some employees were fired after arriving at their overseas assignments. Isn't that true?
▶ 1:52:43Mr. Rigas: People were lift base assignment they held as of may 29. We were not able to -- some hand onward assignments, but the nature of it was that we had to pick a date for where people were as of may 29.
▶ 1:53:01Sen. Van Hollen: So, the state department secretary said nevertheless we will be sent to you and your families overseas and those families who had moved overseas work rift. I have heard repeatedly that the suggestion on these decisions was that they were based on performance and that the best people were selected. Is it the case that in some offices you had a competition of one?
▶ 1:53:31Sen. Van Hollen: Like one person competing with themselves?
▶ 1:53:33Mr. Rigas: I would be happy to go over the registry. There's no way for me to know looking at 1500 offices. Is it likely that there is an office that had one or two people in another one with 50 or 150 people? It's a big organization.
▶ 1:53:55Sen. Van Hollen: Yeah, it is a big organization, so when you fired 1300 people, it's understandable that we didn't go through a deliberate process. I don't buy it, Mr. deputy secretary. Thank you. Mr. deputy secretary?
▶ 1:54:14Senator: Palladium is an important metal used across the manufacturing industry that is particularly important for munitions, advanced electronics, and automobiles. The only primary producer in the U.S. is in montana. Three places my neck. Russia, south africa, montana.
▶ 1:54:41Senator: In order to drive the mine out of business and increase the american supply chain vulnerability, the russians have flooded the market with palladium, driving down prices, forcing the montana stillwater mine, located south of big dipper in a beautiful part of our state to lay off around 700 hard-working employees.
▶ 1:55:08Senator: If we don't take action to curb russian dumping and price manipulation, the mine and the important jobs it supplies will be permanently lost and american supply chains will be all that much more vulnerable. Russian palladium is not only costing us american jobs, but the irony is that it's helping to fund the russian war against ukraine.
▶ 1:55:38Senator: How can the state department work with congress and across the administration to decrease american dependence on russian minerals like palladium, while at the same time protecting american workers from russian market manipulation?
▶ 1:55:58Mr. Rigas: Thank you for the question. The president has talked about not this exact issue, but basically this issue generally, with how we need to on short critical supply chains for national security purposes in how he wants to streamline the permitting process so that things it took years could be allowed in weeks and months.
▶ 1:56:24Mr. Rigas: His use of tariffs for national security purposes, which this sounds like it might be, a national security issue calling for terrorists on a critical mineral that is adversely affecting our ability to source national security related minerals. So, I could see a multifaceted approach where tariffs are involved on russian palladium, but I don't want to get out over my skis on palladium. A number of other people were talking about tariffs Sen.
▶ 1:57:01Daines: . Thank you for the thoughtful answer. We wanted to flag it. The defense production act could be another avenue. They are dumping this palladium in the U.S. market, forcing the price down, funding the efforts in ukraine and we are seeing montana minors losing their jobs. We have got to act, but I wanted to raise the issue to put on your radar. Second question regarding central asia, it is vitally important, a region that is in a tough neighborhood it is rich in natural resources.
▶ 1:57:31Daines: They are surrounded by russia, china, iran, afghanistan. They are working very hard to modernize their economies in improve relationships with the U.S.. I visited all five of the central asian countries in the last 14 months and they want to work with the united states.
▶ 1:57:56Daines: Unfortunately, central asia suffers cold war era trade restrictions and can only train waiver basis. Prevents any permanent investment and has become a major hindrance in getting things done in central asia to increase american prosperity and security.
▶ 1:58:22Daines: To take advantage of the possibilities of stronger partnerships between the united states and central asia, we must address this trade issue. Frankly bringing this into the 21st century. I'm working with my colleagues to repeal the jackson-vanik restrictions with opening up a
▶ 1:58:56Daines: Stronger relationship with central asia in the united states?
▶ 1:59:01Mr. Rigas: We are in a post-post-cold war era of great power reorganization and it sounds like an item wiped out for the state department to take on.
▶ 1:59:17Sen. Daines: It's an annual relic that is part of the soviet days. It's time to put this to bed. I've been working with senator murphy on a bipartisan effort to repeal it permanently. Thank you. Let's see. Senator booker?
▶ 1:59:36Senator Booker: I will defer to senator duckworth.
▶ 1:59:43Senator Duckworth: Thank you. Deputy secretary I have to add my voice to the chorus and express how appalled I am at how the department conducted friday's rifts, unceremoniously firing hundreds of members of the foreign service with a halfhearted hand wave at the process. My office has received direct outreach from dozens affected and confirmed but we suspect it would and what members of this committee warned of the department about.
▶ 2:00:12Senator Duckworth: Public servants who have made sacrifices to serve our nation. These actions are shortsighted and sloppy. I would have expected better. Taking a difficult moment and making it more precarious. I can only scratch the surface of the heartbreaking stories I have heard from public servants concerned about their livelihoods and their impact on national security. Claiming we went through a process to execute the rifts.
▶ 2:00:44Senator Duckworth: Individuals who were hired under veteran preference were rift without acknowledgment of their status or summary included in the letters. Why should you believe that we went through a thoughtful process when you cannot even check this basic blocks of acknowledging that service and what about the examples of those who I have heard of overseas who are being put up at taxpayer expense in five-star hotels cut off from returning home.
▶ 2:01:13Mr. Rigas: Thank you. The rift procedures were done in partnership with the office of personnel management. We asked every employee in the weeks and months to update personnel files. One of the challenges is that there is not a central --
▶ 2:01:29Sen. Duckworth: You are blaming opm and the employees that you rift for the shoddy way you went about doing this?
▶ 2:01:37Mr. Rigas: No, the employee file is owned by the employee. So, if it does not have all of their past history -- if they have worked at multiple departments and agencies and the sf 50 has not been uploaded, it's possible that a detailed of service may have been overlooked.
▶ 2:01:58Mr. Rigas: That is why they were all asked to examine it before to make sure every effort was put into the file, but it feels done, we will address that immediately.
▶ 2:02:14Sen. Duckworth: It sounds like you are blaming the victim. The people that I spoke with updated their files. How do you reconcile that their own professional development program in the trump administration requires fs owes to advance through the senior foreign service, implemented in 2017, yet you exclusively targeted those on domestic tours. They targeted those placed there by trump and as soon as they did it, they were fired.
▶ 2:02:45Sen. Duckworth: How do you reconcile that?
▶ 2:02:45Mr. Rigas: Reorganization did focus on domestic only operations of the department of state. It did not focus on overseas or global footprints. We have 14,000 global service officers who served by posts overseas.
▶ 2:03:01Mr. Rigas: You're not answering my question. How do you reconcile that?
▶ 2:03:06Sen. Duckworth: Looking at it, it couldn't fall entirely on the civil service. We had to be equitable in terms of how we address the reductions in force at that apartment. The vast majority fell on the civil servants, and like I said, that's regrettable.
▶ 2:03:29Sen. Duckworth: When we had to eliminate offices and functions, they were not reporting to the federal government rules surrounding rifts.
▶ 2:03:40Sen. Duckworth: But they were on domestic tour because the president, trump, said they had to do it. Ridiculous. The cuts to the ap team that managed engagement while the secretary was there is a perfect illustration of the shoddy foolish way that you did this. It is clear that the real winner will be the prc as you eliminate our expert capacity to engage in this critical region. Who will manage the make home issue and partnership?
▶ 2:04:11Mr. Rigas: All of those functions will be held at the regional level, the east asia pacific bureau in that case. All the country desks --
▶ 2:04:20Mr. Rigas: They don't have an overseas counterpart office.
▶ 2:04:25Mr. Rigas: Sorry, who doesn't?
▶ 2:04:27Sen. Duckworth: Make home partnership.
▶ 2:04:30Mr. Rigas: Anything dealing with a particular region will be handled by the regional bureau.
▶ 2:04:36Mr. Rigas: Where is that? -- Sen. duckworth: where is that?
▶ 2:04:43Mr. Rigas: Located in washington, D.C., the country desks are here and have Mr.
▶ 2:04:50Rigas: Counterparts in every country. This is the thing -- Sen.
▶ 2:04:53Duckworth: This is the thing. You are firing the people to work without regard to these programs on a program that the p.r.c. Is in the wrong on. We had the opportunity to develop relationships. I am astonished that you would do this to the state department and national security of this country. I'm over time. Thank you. >> senator booker?
▶ 2:05:16Senator Booker: We're good. I cannot tell you how frustrated I am, listening to the answers given here that, to me, are utterly unacceptable. You know that a number of us have served in executive positions. Governors, county executives. I cut 25% from the workforce during a recession overall. I know what it means to do a rift right. This has been chaos and cruelty.
▶ 2:05:48Senator Booker: Frankly, your answers have lacked decency, as if you don't care about the employees whose lives have been destroyed after years of not decades of service. I want to be specific, clearly you are not standing up for those who dedicated their lives to this country, but I will stand up for them. So, let's talk about some of these more like people in what you have done.
▶ 2:06:13Senator Booker: A technical security specialist who just moved all of his belongings to pakistan was fired as he was heading there to ensure that our embassies in the region were safe. Hours after the movers left his home, he was fired, leaving a massive security gap by the making of this administration. Friday, you fired rapid response counselor officers who deployed emergency services to americans overseas.
▶ 2:06:39Senator Booker: The officers that you fired were both actively deployed, leaving one stranded in columbia and the other in on parole without access to their emails or phones and without plane tickets home. The cruelty continues. One of the officers was a veteran with 24 years of federal service who had helped americans during the afghanistan withdrawal in the sudan evacuation, who deserved better from you in the U.S.
▶ 2:07:06Senator Booker: Government for their service. At a time when there is a hot war in ukraine and the president is proclaiming to try to foster a peace agreement between ukraine and russia, you fire the only ukrainian -- ukraine intelligence russia analyst in the intelligence research bureau .
▶ 2:07:29Senator Booker: You fired the executive director of the national authority for chemical weapons while we tried to get the new government in syria to locate and destroy remaining stockpiles of chemical weapons that threaten the security of that region and us. You fired human trafficking experts, including everyone with human trafficking experience in the middle east, north africa, and south and central asia as if that is not an urgent crisis amongst humanity and for the nation.
▶ 2:08:00Senator Booker: Apart from the national security implications of these firings and despite the cool way that you guys executed them, the human toll is also staggering. One of the experts that you fired showed that level of cruelty of your actions, with a wife that was just fired by usaid. She's pregnant. Now he just got fired as well.
▶ 2:08:26Senator Booker: Two people trying to start their family with no income and now even their health insurance in limbo. Years of service to this country. You even fired all the staff at the office of casualty assistance charged with rape -- repatriating fallen personnel and their families, including those killed in the benghazi attacks.
▶ 2:08:50Senator Booker: We have a solemn and sacred duty to bring home the bodies of the american citizens who died serving their countries, helping their families. It's a sacred obligation. Every major corporation that I know -- we have talked about the business sector, they know the most valuable thing they can do is get a pipeline of talent.
▶ 2:09:14Senator Booker: I have spoken to ceos who say they spend one third of their time recruiting talent but despite telling us that the office would face no cuts, friday you lie to all of us in the limited that pipeline of talent.
▶ 2:09:29Senator Booker: For the civil service of foreign officers watching this right now hoping that they can get justification for the chaos you created and cruelty you put into place, for the lack of decency, I'm going to tell those folks right now that we will stand up for each and every one of those folks and fight for them at a time that china is doubling down on their investments in the diplomatic corps, trying to fill every void we create.
▶ 2:09:59Senator Booker: You are devastating the core, hurting americans, undermining our sacred mission as well. Again, I don't trust you, Mr. rigas. Yesterday you said no one of the council of her affairs would be fired and that was false, over 100 were fired. You said that no one with overseas assignments would be fired and that's also not true. I have examples of employees rift all over this country with orders and hands.
▶ 2:10:27Senator Booker: We were told of diplomatic security agents would be fired, and it is again not true. We are the U.S. senate within an obligation for oversight that you showed even your statements lacked veracity. I'm telling you right now we are in a crisis in this country if you won't come here to represent facts.
▶ 2:10:50Senator Booker: To demonstrate that cruelty, to demonstrate the level of chaos and lack of decency in this administration, these cuts are being done in the name of saving taxpayer money, but we are not doing that. We are literally giving tax cuts to billionaires and racking up the biggest deficits in my lifetime under leadership that doesn't have fiscal responsibility.
▶ 2:11:14Senator Booker: The best example of that is allowing millions of pounds, thousands of pounds of food that were supposed to save the lives of thousands of human beings, paid for by taxpayers, spoiling on the dock. How is that in any way human decency?
▶ 2:11:32Senator Booker: How is that in any way that we as a country would rather watch food go away sit on the docks while children around the world are dying because of your inaction and that of your agency? You're not being truthful. You given a lack to veterans. This is not the way we operate.
▶ 2:12:05Senator Booker: I will stand up and fight you in every way to make sure that the people you hurt get from this country what they deserve. Respect and honor. Thank you.
▶ 2:12:13Chair Risch: Senator shaheen?
▶ 2:12:15Mr. Rigas: Can I respond?
▶ 2:12:17Chair Risch: You may.
▶ 2:12:20Mr. Rigas: I'm deeply distressed by everything you just said.
▶ 2:12:24Sen. Booker: I'm distressed by everything you have done, sir. I have watched you lie to this committee.
▶ 2:12:32Mr. Rigas: You were here when I addressed senator merkley and told them immediately after that the next sentence after that my house testimony --
▶ 2:12:41Sen. Booker: What about the other lies? Do you want to go through them one by one?
▶ 2:12:46Mr. Rigas: Mr. chairman, can I respond to the question?
▶ 2:12:49Chair Risch: You may respond.
▶ 2:12:51Mr. Rigas: We did not let go diplomatic security personnel engaged in law enforcement functions. We did not let go of any --
▶ 2:13:00Sen. Booker: That's a patent did -- patented live. What is outrageous is your behavior.
▶ 2:13:09Chair Risch: Please let Mr. rigas respond.
▶ 2:13:13Mr. Rigas: We let individuals who work rift -- by the way, they are still on payroll, still getting pay and benefits for the next 60 days. Other individuals who had requested compassionate exception because of medical and family issues, they were granted. That's in stark contrast to what I experienced when I was the acting director of the office of personnel management now.
▶ 2:13:47Mr. Rigas: The incoming biden administration who had babies in the nicu, saying could we please, they were legally entitled.
▶ 2:14:02Sen. Booker: I've heard this before. You are trying to blame biden. You are trying to delay. You are trying to deny. You are trying to denigrate the committee by not telling the truth. An impeachment of what he just said. Let me enter into the record this document demonstrating that he did indeed fire people who were in charge of doing technical work for the security of our people overseas. You lied to this committee. I would like to submit this for the record.
▶ 2:14:32Chair Risch: Senatormr. Reed gu,
▶ 2:14:39Chair Risch: Senatormr. Reed gu- please respond.
▶ 2:14:44Sen. Booker: I'm happy to listen to you go through each one.
▶ 2:14:48Chair Risch: I want to allow Mr. rigas to respond and then senator shaheen has a couple more.
▶ 2:14:59Mr. Rigas: Obviously people relet go from their jobs as a reduction in force. We had 13 people to relet go. That does not mean the function that they performed was necessarily eliminated. These functions that we wanted to move forward were carried on either in a combined bureau or another office for those functions were carried out. We said diplomatic security that was conducting law enforcement, there were no reductions in that law enforcement function.
▶ 2:15:31Mr. Rigas: Adjudicating passports, doing customer-service work that we want to see continued were not reduced or limited. People who were in domestic positions is where these reductions in force were done.
▶ 2:15:41Sen. Booker: Is contradicting his own -- you said that it's regrettable that there were at least 200 people that you at least showed some shred of decency --
▶ 2:15:51Mr. Rigas: I'm saying it's regrettable --
▶ 2:15:53Sen. Booker: So you've made mistakes.
▶ 2:15:55Mr. Rigas: No.
▶ 2:15:56Sen. Booker: You've literally said you've made no mistakes?
▶ 2:15:59Chair Risch: Senator booker, thank you. Mr. rigas, clearly this is going to go back and forth. I'd like you could respond in 30 seconds then we will have senator shaheen.
▶ 2:16:10Sen. Booker: He should respond to the questions for the record.
▶ 2:16:12Mr. Rigas: Look, no one wants to lay someone off. I don't think we take any joy in laying people off or any kind of reduction in force but we have to do what is best for the mission, for the organization. The department has grown by 20,000 people since 2008. We let go 1300 people, every single one of those is hard for those individuals, for their families.
▶ 2:16:37Mr. Rigas: I've experienced unemployment in my life, I know what that's like, it's not pleasant for anyone but we have to put the mission first and we have to make sure the critical functions we want to execute are going to be done and they are going to be done with respect to taxpayers in the united states.
▶ 2:16:49Sen. Booker: I find it insulting, demeaning and degrading to the people whose lives you've upended unjustifiably.
▶ 2:16:55Chair Risch: Senator shaheen.
▶ 2:16:59Sen. Shaheen: Mr. rigas:
▶ 2:17:02Sen. Shaheen: Mr. rigas, as you can see there are strong feelings on the part of this committee about what has happened at the state department. I think one of the things that would have helped with any reorganization would have been to engage this committee which is our oversight responsibility and function, and the fact is, as I said in my opening statement, this reorganization has occurred without appropriate motion, without appropriate engagement on the part of congress.
▶ 2:17:34Sen. Shaheen: And no wonder people are upset. But I want to go back to the food assistance issue. Because you've acknowledged that what we don't want to do is destroy food that has been purchased, that is available for people. We don't want to let it spoil, we don't want to destroy it. So can I ask that you have an inventory of what food is still out there waiting to be distributed?
▶ 2:18:01Sen. Shaheen: I know there is oil in houston in a warehouse that is going to reach its expiration date within months and if we don't get it out, it's also going to be spoiled. I'm sure this food and other places around the world because we know there is food that was going out.
▶ 2:18:25Sen. Shaheen: Can we ask that you provide this to the committee within the next week and with a plan for how it is going to get distributed? And if the state department doesn't have the officials to distribute it, give it to other aid organizations so that they can distribute it, so that it is not going to waste and so that people are getting the benefit. But for people who are desperate for food. We know that there are places all over the world where people are desperate for that food.
▶ 2:18:54Mr. Rigas: Certainly, of course.
▶ 2:18:57Sen. Shaheen: Thank you.
▶ 2:18:58Chair Risch: Thank you, senator shaheen. Well, that wraps up the hearing. A sincere thank you to Mr. rigas for providing us with the benefit of his testimony. For the information of members, the record will remain open until the close of business tomorrow, july 17. We ask the witness to respond as promptly as possible. Responses will also be made part of the record. With the thanks of the committee, the hearing is now adjourned.