▶ 0:18:55Chair Cruz: Good morning. The senate committee on commerce, science, and transportation will come to order. The day will be -- we will be considering nominees for the greedy rules. Seville awes, the assistant secretary of transportation for research.
▶ 0:19:16Chair Cruz: Michael rutherford nominated to the office of multimodal freight infrastructure and policy and greg zeek -- gregory zerzan nominated to be great -- general counsel. Transportation is and will remain the backbone of global economies. We are entering a new era defined by autonomous vehicles, smart infrastructure and ai driven logistics.
▶ 0:19:42Chair Cruz: They are happening around the world and in some cases elsewhere because the federal government has been so hostile to innovation. President trump and secretary duffy are faced with a huge undertaking, having to fix the mistakes of the last four years by modernizing regulations and enhancing safety standards. To succeed they need advisers who understand the promise and complexity of what lies ahead. Today's nominees fit the bill. Ms.
▶ 0:20:12Chair Cruz: Oz is a pioneer of transportation technology. In nevada, she brought the private sector and government together to license the first self-driving car. And as assistant secretary for transportation, she will help align dot research efforts for the next generation of transportation. Mr.
▶ 0:20:35Chair Cruz: Rutherford's experience with nearly every freight mode will serve him well as assistant secretary of transportation for the office of multimodal freight infrastructure and policy. At csx, he led a 140 person team. He recognizes that optimize supply chains keep costs down for consumers.
▶ 0:21:00Chair Cruz: It confirmed, he will work alongside secretary gap -- secretary duffy and the private sector to eliminate bottlenecks and secure freight networks. Finally, Mr. zerzan brings managerial experience from his time in legislative and executive branches.
▶ 0:21:20Chair Cruz: As a current acting solicitor for department of interior he oversees a large team of political appointees and career civil servants and will do the same at dot providing impartial, strategic counsel to improve our skies, roadways and waterways. These nominees are ready to help transform the american transportation system through responsible innovation, lien regulation and a renewed focus on safety. I look forward to hearing from them today.
▶ 0:21:51Chair Cruz: I will turn to ranking member cantwell for her remarks.
▶ 0:21:53Sen. Cantwell: Welcome to the nominees and congratulations for the nomination. We are here to consider Mr. zerzan to be the general, Mr. rutherford of the assistant secretary for the office of multi-freight infrastructure and policy and Ms. oz as assistant secretary for the research and technology. These are critical to the coordination and improving safety.
▶ 0:22:22Sen. Cantwell: The leaders must be committed to upholding the transportation sector that it regulates to safety and consumer standards. The general counsel plays a critical role in what the department does, determining which sent -- safety requirements are approved and eliminated, allowing cities and states to be in -- to begin building projects.
▶ 0:22:47Sen. Cantwell: I recently expressed my concern about the now deputy secretary stephen bradberry who as general counsel orchestrated a number of rollbacks on important safety issues and I hope to ask you questions about that and look for a different approach.
▶ 0:23:03Sen. Cantwell: I am alarmed that the recent formalization of a new process that would authorize you, if you were confirmed to take actions against safety inspectors if a company claims it violated the dot enforcement procedures, especially allowing regulated entities to regulate the officials charged with keeping public safety.
▶ 0:23:29Sen. Cantwell: This became an issue when the oda officials who were responsible for approving the process were retaliated against and thereby pulled their punches and the rest of it is history. We need a strong safety regime. Maintaining the strongest safety process does not just save lives it spurs economic growth and enables the U.S. to stay competitive and is essential for selling U.S. airplanes abroad.
▶ 0:23:57Sen. Cantwell: Now, we continue to see a huge opportunity in which we want aviation to win, as there is a huge demand for planes. At the same time, we have to address other sectors of transportation.
▶ 0:24:12Sen. Cantwell: We saw the reports indicating the loss of 20% of the federal highway administration's workforce and federal transit administration's workforce, impacting our ability to move quickly and improve -- and approving projects and getting them implemented. I would love to ask you about that and how you expect to turn that around so the dot can move forward. Mr. rutherford I created the freight office to improve multimodal freight planning.
▶ 0:24:43Sen. Cantwell: That sounds like a generous staff. Like I created. We had legislation and we improved it.
▶ 0:24:50Chair Cruz: We are happy to give credit to the former chair.
▶ 0:24:55Sen. Cantwell: To be clear, our state had a great office, why? Because if you moved freight in the state of washington, you got a percentage of the gas tax because moving freight was part of economic development, so why not prioritize that. So we said let us create a federal freight policy which ray and others did.
▶ 0:25:20Sen. Cantwell: Rate, so now we know freight cannot wait and we had the hearing on the surface transportation act with a similar issue saying that if we are not competitive, then we will lose in our case to british columbia or somewhere else and then the competitive edge of the united states is -- states is impacted.
▶ 0:25:42Sen. Cantwell: We definitely want to continue to make sure that freight investments are prioritized and we have talked about that yesterday as we prepare for surface transportation act. Ms. oz. The dot's research program are vital for using technology to improve safety and efficiency and to recognize that the industry and that we continue to work together on the development on these issues and get them
▶ 0:26:12Sen. Cantwell: Implemented. One thing we are concerned about is the interference on spectrum interference and radio altimeters. When we look at the dca air crash there was a lot of discussion about how the altimeters of that helicopters might be affected, giving them different altitudes.
▶ 0:26:34Sen. Cantwell: And as the previous implementation and discussion between dot and an tia, a lot of confusion over how to have the airline industry safely transmitting and the interference that might occur. I look forward to asking questions about that.
▶ 0:26:56Sen. Cantwell: Clearly, we have a lot to do to improve transportation and I am excited about the opportunities and the continuation of drone technology, which we have championed in the committee for many years. And the applications are so numerous and continuing to pay dividends. Obviously the dot has a big role to continue the rollout of the drone technology, though I look forward to asking about that. Thank you.
▶ 0:27:24Chair Cruz: I recognize Ms. oz for her opening statement.
▶ 0:27:31Ms. Oz: Chairman, ranking member and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the privilege to appear before you today. I am deeply honored and profoundly aware of the magnitude and urgency of the task ahead. The challenges are formidable but the chance to shape the future of transportation and american innovation is more compelling.
▶ 0:27:56Ms. Oz: I would like to acknowledge president trump's unwavering commitment to ensure that the department of transportation showcases the best in american innovation and technology leadership. I would like to thank the secretary for his confidence and entrusting me with responsibility for delivering the safest and most forward-looking transportation systems. I am grateful for my family and friends for their love and support. My daughter, a proud john hopkins graduate is performing opera overseas.
▶ 0:28:26Ms. Oz: But she is not here today but I am blessed to be joined by my friends and colleagues. I begin with a simple but bold promise, I believe in the mission of saving lives. Every year nearly 40,000 people lose their lives in traffic collisions, approximately 100 lives every single day, and yet 90% could be avoided with self driving cars. We have the technology to save thousands of american lives so why aren't we doing so?
▶ 0:28:57Ms. Oz: For every year we wait more lives are lost. It is not a matter of innovation but a moral imperative. I work -- I look forward to working on a national framework to advanced transportation technologies many of which were made in america and hold the promise to prevent fatalities. The thought of restricting mobility is deeply unsettling. Movement is natural as breathing. When we lose our ability to move safely our world shrinks. Our health mental and physical suffers.
▶ 0:29:28Ms. Oz: We become isolated. We have experienced the awkward moment of taking the keys away from our aging parents or lying awake at night for our teenagers to return home safely. The promise of a new generation of transportation is about building better drivers, ones who do not get distracted, first -- possess superior perception and react in an instant.
▶ 0:29:54Ms. Oz: My role is to set clear vision on how innovation drives transportation policy and infrastructure towards practical and achievable solutions that advance public safety and serve the american people. I was born to immigrant parents who value the opportunities this country offered. I learned the importance of a meaningful plan fueled by determination and commitment.
▶ 0:30:18Ms. Oz: These values became the cornerstone of my career, guiding me as I build high-performance teams in the fast-paced world of global technology. That led me to roles with the most innovative companies. I joined google because they shared my vision of merging advanced automotive hardware with intelligent software to solve real-world challenges, human challenges.
▶ 0:30:43Ms. Oz: My experience proved invaluable as I negotiated complex and multiparty agreements that brought together traditionally competitive and adversarial stakeholders. By leveraging urgency and a well-placed fear of missing out, I aligns diverse interests and secured critical cooperation. In 18 months we accomplished what many thought impossible, delivering the first self-driving vehicle.
▶ 0:31:09Ms. Oz: I earned the trust of key stakeholders, town halls, law enforcement and emergency services. I am the most proud of leaving this extraordinary collaboration resulting in an autopilot platform with an exceptional safety record. I transition to a global automotive supplier with over 200,000 employees where I face new challenges, driving digital transformation in a legacy industry.
▶ 0:31:37Ms. Oz: I have been advising top ain data science teams to assess transformative technology frontiers and together we can establish U.S. transportation as the gold standard by developing ai models based on the american automation stack. I am eager to mobilize safety, across all modes of the advanced transportation network.
▶ 0:32:02Ms. Oz: I have been in the lion's den of the automotive engine rejected to grow to $7 trillion. The department of transportation is our national pride for demonstrating U.S. leadership in driving the economic engine of our nation. This moment is not years away but now. I shared parts of my journey to underscore that everything I have done academically or professionally has prepared me for those mormons.
▶ 0:32:33Ms. Oz: -- moment. We stand at a threshold that will define the future not only of transportation but of economic growth, and global influence. Success will require competent and skilled leadership to earn public trust and I ask for the support for the senate committee on, and transportation. I look forward to answering your questions today.
▶ 0:32:56Chair Cruz: Mr. rutherford, you are now recognized.
▶ 0:33:04Mr. Rutherford: Thank you for the opportunity to be here today and it is an incredible honor to be president trump's nominee as the assistant secretary of multimodal freight and policy. I am grateful for the confidence placed in me by president trump and secretary duffy to lead this new office and shepherd this development.
▶ 0:33:33Mr. Rutherford: I am also grateful for my family who is here with me today. My wife is not just the love of my life, but the most interesting person I have ever met. She is joined by our daughter, a rising freshman and research scholar at the university of florida and our 12-year-old son, a source of great pride and constant entertainment.
▶ 0:33:58Mr. Rutherford: As I sit here before the senate commerce, science, and transportation committee, I am aware of the expectations, especially outside this room. Industry lamented the fact that freight does not vote. The introduction of the freight office was finally giving a voice to freight, while much has been accomplished more is expected. I work in industry.
▶ 0:34:25Mr. Rutherford: After studying international finance and commerce, and getting a masters in international economics and management in italy, I worked in consumer goods at johnson & johnson and adidas where I learned about sourcing and distribution. When I joined csx, starting out in intermodal before managing everything moving on the railroad except for intermodal and cold.
▶ 0:34:53Mr. Rutherford: I participated in a number of strategic initiatives like the gateway infrastructure project, launching the airline contain your problem -- program, championing 50 foot boxcar reinvestments and assisting customers during the rollout of precision scheduled railroading.
▶ 0:35:11Mr. Rutherford: It is my sincere hope that all of those who have promoted the creation of a high level freight office will view the first assistant secretary appointment of someone with my industry experience of a reflection of the commitment of president trump and secretary duffy to advance the cause of freight. It goes beyond the ease of doing business by establishing a primary but not sole point of contact.
▶ 0:35:41Mr. Rutherford: Ad hoc coordination must make way for a more systematic approach to freight planning throughout U.S. dot while partnering with state dot's and up across the administration is appropriate. The approach of draft network with over 70 8000 roadway miles, 80,000 rail miles, 21,000 waterway miles and 65 airports plays a fundamental role in much of the activity is.
▶ 0:36:12Mr. Rutherford: Given the significance, we must get it right. If confirmed to the freight office will follow up on all concerns including the current draft including missing mileage in some states. Building upon this, the strategic plans aims to drive in align with plans to bolster economic growth and international competitiveness based on a shared vision of the future.
▶ 0:36:40Mr. Rutherford: In addition to addressing bottlenecks and bringing key infrastructure to a state of good repair this requires identifying critical freight facilities and core doors with vital interconnections to enhance overall performance of the freight system and if confirmed I will work to ensure the timely update of the national strategic plan consistent with current market dynamics including shifting trade flows, reassuring and manufacturing and the renewed emphasis of the industries of national importance.
▶ 0:37:11Mr. Rutherford: I will seek to assure that freight grant programs within the office of the secretary and U.S. dot support key priority as a federal interest. Another key function is to facilitate data sharing opportunities among freight stakeholders, recognizing that you cannot manage what you do not know, logistics operators asian -- optimization provides valuable supply chain visibility , enable them -- enabling them
▶ 0:37:46Mr. Rutherford: To have forward-looking changes in the operating environment. Despite early success as there is so much more that the freight office can do to build upon these early efforts. If I am fortunate to be confirmed as the assistant secretary of the office of multimodal fate -- freight infrastructure and policy, I will promote safe, efficient and resilient freight transportation across all modes and along the full spectrum of supply chain and logistics from sourcing and
▶ 0:38:17Mr. Rutherford: Distribution from america's heartland to the big city and beyond. Thank you. That concludes my statement and I would be happy to answer questions.
▶ 0:38:25Chair Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 0:38:26Mr. Zerzan: Thank you. My great fear that introductions would be done in alphabetical order has been realized. Thank you Mr. chairman and and ranking member and members of the committee for allowing me to appear before you today. I am gregory zerzan, nominated for the position of general for the department of transportation. I would like to thank president trump for putting his faith in me by nominating me for this position.
▶ 0:38:57Mr. Zerzan: I was born in portland, oregon as the youngest child of charles and joan. My parents were both members of the greatest generation. Who lived through the great depression, the second world war, and the cold war. Dad fought in the china, burma, india and theater and my mom served as a volunteer playing spotter while working on ranches. My parents met in college after dad returned from the fighting.
▶ 0:39:27Mr. Zerzan: At the end of their wedding ceremony in milwaukee, wisconsin, the priest gave my parents the standard injunction to go forth and multiply. A task that they took to with enthusiasm, going on to have 12 children, mostly on army bases. I am privileged to be the youngest of those 12.
▶ 0:39:52Mr. Zerzan: My parents taught us that god, family and country are the three great causes to which one might profitably dedicate one's life, and all -- and they also taught us that the things that unite us are far more important than the things that divide us.
▶ 0:40:11Mr. Zerzan: One of my earliest political memories was my father's unbridled enthusiasm for ronald reagan's campaign for the presidency and his frustration that he could not convince my mom not to vote to reelect president carter, whom she said seemed like an honorable man.
▶ 0:40:32Mr. Zerzan: I mention my parents, because they taught us that it was important, and indeed necessary to work together, even when we disagree. It is my hope, that if I am so fortunate as to be confirmed, I will bring these lessons with me to the department.
▶ 0:40:53Mr. Zerzan: If I am so fortunate to be confirmed, I will do my best to live out the values that my parents taught us, and to work with you with respect and humility, even if there are sincere policy disagreements. Mr. chairman and members of the committee, I would like to thank you for your service to this country. I would like to thank interior secretary doug burgum to serve at the department these last six months.
▶ 0:41:23Mr. Zerzan: And I would like to thank the excellent professional career civil servants with whom I have had the privilege of serving in three administrations. I can say with no false modesty to the extent that I have enjoyed any professional success, it is in large measure because of our hard-working career federal workforce. Lastly and most importantly, I would like to thank my wife, shannon.
▶ 0:41:49Mr. Zerzan: She made me a texan, and a father to our boys, charlie and george. And no matter what else happens, I will consider myself a success for having in her to marry me. Thank you very much for this opportunity.
▶ 0:42:05Chair Cruz: I commend your wife on her excellent judgment making you a texan. Ms. oz, we know that human error is the leading cause of car crashes. In your judgment, how close are we to a world where av technology can significantly reduce traffic fatalities? What do you see as the biggest obstacle to that happening?
▶ 0:42:32Ms. Oz: Thank you very much for that critical question. And it is one that keeps most of us up at night. We have the ability to bring forward a federal regulatory environment that will not only create clear and consistent direction for the industry, but also enable us to the surface above the deaths that we have had that are completely solvable.
▶ 0:43:03Ms. Oz: Av technology, and specifically self-driving vehicles and robotic technology has proven to be safer by all metrics shown in the public records. It is my responsibility if confirmed to bring that to the forefront of this discussion.
▶ 0:43:21Chair Cruz: The U.S. right now lacks a federal framework for av's. Our regulatory framework is fragmented with different rules deployed in each state meanwhile germany and child -- and china have national level coordination and testing and product liability. How could the U.S. lose its competitive edge to other countries in advancing this tech if the current fractions -- fractured system remains?
▶ 0:43:49Ms. Oz: The fractured system is due to the fact that we have different regulatory standards across different states. You can imagine your state is pretty laissez-faire. Go to california.
▶ 0:44:02Chair Cruz: We tend to be that way out -- about a lot.
▶ 0:44:07Ms. Oz: You have driving permit requirements and data requirements, which are not bad but they have to be standardized. My biggest concern is that china has proven to be a healthy competitor.
▶ 0:44:21Ms. Oz: I do not think of them as much of an enemy as a adversary or competitor who has taken a strong mandate to making this a strategic and economic decision as well as existential to their livelihood to ensuring that that gets on the roads in a fast way. They are building this technology orders of magnitude faster than we are and have commanded a 2025 mandate to use local chips on all robotaxis.
▶ 0:44:52Ms. Oz: If they have 10,000 right now meaning you can imagine the number of chips they are building up. As we think of the foundational expertise and the technology that we built, we need to make sure that our stack gets built on U.S. chips and in that respect I would be very interested in a made in america approach and making sure that we protect that along the way.
▶ 0:45:15Chair Cruz: The biden-buttigieg dot failed to replace the outdated air traffic control system, and they spent roughly $80 billion on d.e.I.Mr.
▶ 0:45:29Chair Cruz: Zerzan: $80
▶ 0:46:20Chair Cruz: Billion on d.e.I.Mr. zerzane mandate for the laws to be followed including in our regulatory policies.
▶ 0:46:26Chair Cruz: Thank you. Mr. rutherford, the office of multimodal freight oversees the development. The federally designated network of highways and airports and other infrastructure critical to the movement of freight across states. Within this network shippers and transport wagering operators are at odds with each other. Shippers might demand faster delivery but carriers might be constrained by driver shortages or port congestion.
▶ 0:46:59Chair Cruz: Based on your experience working with shippers and operators, how can the office of multimodal freight help bridge these gaps?
▶ 0:47:06Mr. Rutherford: Thank you for the question. One of the objectives clearly for the freight office is to address issues of congestion. And congestion is the enemy of asset utilization. When we fix process -- problems of congestion, you are not just driving down costs but generating additional capacity so that you can also be more efficient.
▶ 0:47:34Mr. Rutherford: We saw that at csx with the rollout of precision scheduled railroading so it becomes a virtuous cycle or circle if you well. And by working with the multimodal freight network and identifying key strategic infrastructure we will focus our emphasis on improving the overall infrastructure where it matters the most to both shippers and transportation providers alike.
▶ 0:47:59Chair Cruz: Thank you. Ranking member.
▶ 0:48:02Sen. Cantwell: Under your predecessor, Mr. bradberry's role in the first trump administration allowing for an exemption to the 80 bs out system for the department of defense. It was later learned that this was not as the request was requested in the exemption, they very -- the very not often used thing but it turned out to be something they did all the time.
▶ 0:48:34Sen. Cantwell: How could they make sure that if they are looking at regulations when the administration wants to get rid of 10 rules, make sure that there is this kind of oversight where people are not really paying attention to the dod and faa did not have a clear plan to keep these planes separated, what can you do to make sure that that kind of rulemaking and exemption is not done in the future?
▶ 0:49:00Ms. Oz: I take the obligation of the general counsel to ensure that laws are being followed very seriously. I acknowledge my own limitations on technical matters and fortunately the department's people -- is full of people who exercise excellent judgment in most cases. I would certainly attempts to rely on the accuracy and insure that in following the law we are doing what we can do to maximize safety.
▶ 0:49:32Sen. Cantwell: When the dod came to the faa and asked for an exemption, how would as counsel do what is following the process and I am sure that a lot of people would like to give dot an exception. There are conditions that they have?
▶ 0:49:52Ms. Oz: And not being familiar with the particulars, but I would encounter instances where the dod and other departments, and ask for various accommodations or agreements. And in each case it is the process and seek their judgment. And make a good fit determination compliant with the law.
▶ 0:50:19Sen. Cantwell: And we will get up to speed on it. This incident in the upper midwest is a reflection of their is something amiss. This kind of near miss things is continuing to happen so we need dot to be on the ball. We need to increase the investments in infrastructure, freight and port infrastructure?
▶ 0:50:43Mr. Rutherford: I think if we are talking about investments and infrastructure generally, absolutely. But it would be premature to speak about individual grant vehicles because as I mentioned in my opening remarks, I want to make certain that we adopt a holistic approach. We have a number of grant vehicles not only within the office.
▶ 0:51:06Sen. Cantwell: I am more looking you come with this private sector experience saying that I understand the movement of goods and services and what I am trying to get at is that we are at a threatened point of not being competitive enough if we cannot get product safely and timely to market. In my world, because we represent a lot of ports. I see exactly what that bottleneck could be. So infrastructure investment will help us be competitive.
▶ 0:51:38Sen. Cantwell: I want an increase and I want to see if you agree.
▶ 0:51:40Mr. Rutherford: I agree but not only within the office of the secretary but elsewhere, whether they be and what have you and in the other investments. That is why my point --
▶ 0:51:52Sen. Cantwell: You are saying make it an ecosystem that works together. We are all for that. Only because the market is outside the united states. 95% of the consumers are outside. If you are not getting products to them timely we will not be competitive.
▶ 0:52:10Mr. Rutherford: Where I was trying to arrive is my point of departure is a national freight strategic plan. That should be only -- not only managing what we do but also incident -- influencing grant decisions elsewhere.
▶ 0:52:25Sen. Cantwell: I would love to ask what your daughter sings in opera but we might not have time for that.
▶ 0:52:32Ms. Oz: To be discussed.
▶ 0:52:34Sen. Cantwell: So, what do you think is, you now have this private sector experience where we are really basically beta testing and rolling out to larger regimes of adoptions. But trying to do so in a safe manner. So starting here and saying we did a few betas and now we will open it up to the whole country is too much.
▶ 0:53:08Sen. Cantwell: So how do you see as moving forward in the adoption and what do you do about the trucking sector and it is a very key part of the U.S. economy?
▶ 0:53:19Ms. Oz: It is an excellent question and a two part question. The first part has to do with that we built this technology here in america.
▶ 0:53:33Ms. Oz: We have all of the foundational capability to scale it in the most safe way we can, by using conservative planning and by using systems that are fail operational including redundancies and ensuring we have secondary approaches like telematics and tele-operations and revoke -- remote vehicle management and we had a framework in which we can give clear guidance to industry on scaling and deploying
▶ 0:54:04Ms. Oz: Capabilities on public roads in america in a safe way. That is the challenge with this administration and all of us to incorporate many elements of technical capabilities and ensure that we coordinate them and work together.
▶ 0:54:20Ms. Oz: Trucking is a very interesting windfall and benefactor for this technology because trucking and commerce is one of the areas that makes the most economic distinction on benefits as we have a remote vehicle and management. It is one of the first use cases that we can emerge with. And I am hoping to provide good clarity and guidance on how we can do that on the technical side.
▶ 0:54:46Sen. Cantwell: I am giving you a little bit out of your lane because we are not hiring to figure out what to do with 200 or 300,000 teamsters. At the same time. When you sit there and look at the framework which you describe, which is a good plan. Having a framework that you can coordinate with industry and get people to buy confidence in. I thought the same about the drum system.
▶ 0:55:13Sen. Cantwell: We had people in visiting -- envisioning a lot of drone use in the northwest for a long time in 2001. Here, it is the same thing, but you have a huge employment sector and the drone industry did not have that. We will look forward. My time is expired but I look forward to discussing this with you.
▶ 0:55:37Chair Cruz: Senator schatz.
▶ 0:55:42Sen. Schatz: I will defer to senator curtis if he is ready.
▶ 0:55:44Chair Cruz: Senator curtis.
▶ 0:55:49Sen. Curtis: , let me flip to the right page in my book and put glasses on. Ok. Maybe I was a little overoptimistic. Ok. Ms.'s, Mr. rutherford and Mr. zerzan, thank you for being here today and congratulations to each of you.
▶ 0:56:20Sen. Curtis: I enjoy the opportunity to work with secretary duffy and I appreciate the leadership that he has brought and he showed a great interest in utah and has personally been out there. Utah has recognized that and is very appreciative. You talked about rapid growth and preparing to host the 2034 olympic games with mounting pressure around environmental review and permitting processes.
▶ 0:56:47Sen. Curtis: How can the dot legal office help streamline the processes while maintaining integrity and fairness?
▶ 0:56:52Mr. Zerzan: Thank you. It is an important question. The supreme court's recent seven counties decision has facilitated nippon reviews that I hope are more consistent with what was intended by congress. So, that alone will help expedite the review process and mitigate some of the litigation risk that has delayed projects of all kinds.
▶ 0:57:21Mr. Zerzan: At the department of the interior, we have worked on facilitating streamline processes focused on what is required by statute as opposed to other extraneous matters that might indicate policy preferences that end up slowing the process of important process -- projects. And the department, I would hope to help bring some of those same permitting reform ideas designed to streamline the process while ensuring environmental integrity.
▶ 0:57:50Sen. Cantwell: Mr. --
▶ 0:57:52Sen. Curtis: Mr. rutherford, how do you plan to have freight planning reflect national priorities and state specific needs?
▶ 0:58:01Mr. Rutherford: Thank you for the question. There are a number of things within the actual functions of the freight office in terms of the review of the individual state dot plans and the development of the national freight strategic plan. I think what is really important is that we both seek to drive and a line.
▶ 0:58:24Mr. Rutherford: The national multimodal freight network is where we do that and we makes certain that the strategic inventory of the nation's infrastructure is properly captured, because that is the point of departure not only at the freight office but for many of the individual stake -- state dot is. The work similar to what secretary duffy talked about last week is the need to identify initiatives a proper federal interest that are going to be strategically important.
▶ 0:58:55Mr. Rutherford: By identifying them more clearly it will help us at the freight office, if confirmed to respond to questions like that from the government accountability office by what do we mean by exemplary project.
▶ 0:59:07Sen. Curtis: That is good. Thank you. Ms. oz, utah established itself as a leader of transportation thanks to the willingness to invest in new technologies like electric aircraft. I am interested in your perspective and how the united states is competing with china when it comes to innovative transportation technologies.
▶ 0:59:32Ms. Oz: Thank you very much for that important question. I wanted to say thank you for your staff for meeting with me during my recent visits to the staff office. I enjoyed our conversations about energy. The biggest problem that we have specifically with china and is that what your question is?
▶ 0:59:54Ms. Oz: China mandated as of their 2025 program in effect right now, the asset commitment, and the capital commitments, the unilateral decision making of investing in this energy sector and automatic driving sector in a very big way. And as of recently, they are selling more cars than we are.
▶ 1:00:21Ms. Oz: They own 70% of the ev market and building on the chipsets they developed locally and will expand to other countries in their region. The U.S., in my estimate built this technology as I discussed. We need to own it and build regulatory involvement around it and have the best research that gives direction for that capability.
▶ 1:00:48Ms. Oz: So, that means that unilaterally we have to decide that this is part of our agenda, which the president and secretary duffy have prioritized. I guess I hope to support that effort going forward.
▶ 1:01:01Sen. Curtis: I would just like to double down with all three of you that utah is ready to be innovative and I know that the secretary is as well. Any chance that utah could be part of innovation or things you want to work with, we would love to have those conversations.
▶ 1:01:21Chair Cruz: Thank you. Senator schatz.
▶ 1:01:25Sen. Schatz: Thank you for your willingness to serve. I have three questions, and thank you for being willing to step up and thank you to the family for the sacrifice. And I am going to caveat this with I know you not -- you are not the government and I know that is an easy way not to answer the question and a perfectly fair way.
▶ 1:01:49Sen. Schatz: I am trying to get to how you would approach the problem, because you would be within your rights to say I do not know yet, but I want you to try and answer. I have a good relationship with the secretary but the department wrote -- froze 3200 grant awards for review. And I have spoken with him publicly and privately of the problem of all of them being frozen and then the bandwidth problem of unfreezing them individually.
▶ 1:02:19Sen. Schatz: And he was pretty frank about the inability to process this in a timely fashion. I think out of the 3200 we are between 4 -- 400 or 500 that have been approved. This is the law and we are talking about billions of dollars of transportation infrastructure, nonpartisan and bipartisan staff, the meat and potatoes staff.
▶ 1:02:46Sen. Schatz: I am wondering in the interest of fidelity to the law that we passed, appropriations and the I ij, how do we effectuate a process that does not end up taking us five years to get money out approved -- that was approved a couple of years for now.
▶ 1:03:02Mr. Zerzan: Thank you very much. Manpower is a great way to solve a lot of problems. So ensuring you have eyeballs on the grants. I will tell you from my own experience, president trump ordered a review of all spending to ensure that taxpayer dollars are being used faithfully.
▶ 1:03:25Mr. Zerzan: At the department of the interior we go through each individual grant and review and see because the government is good at putting in clauses for allows thanks -- allowing it to do things like pause the spending. To the extent there is a justifiable reason we put a pause on it. If we do not the money goes out the door. I sympathize with what you are saying and I am familiar with the challenge.
▶ 1:03:47Sen. Schatz: I just want to offer that operationally we will have to invert the assumption. You might want to review for impropriety or noncompliance with the law or some other reason to freeze, but I think that as long as the department of transportation professionals have worked with the state department of transportation to engage, that the assumption should be that that is lawful,
▶ 1:04:18Sen. Schatz: Subject to review. Not that all of it does not go until it is individually reapproved. If we do that, and I am not trying to reduce the prerogatives of the department to a line better with the new president and secretary's priorities, but you will not get through the list and you will get people on a bipartisan basis pretty angry.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Schatz: The other challenge is I do not want to create a situation where it is tammany hall and I have to appeal to the secretary to release my funds. And then it is a mayor and a swimming pool in your council district and that is not the way that we do transportation infrastructure. So this is not working right now and I think the secretary would agree. But we need a new process. More manpower you know what will happen.
▶ 1:05:10Sen. Schatz: It will take months to fund, hire, train and then we are into next year and we will be one third of our way through the list. This thing is going to slow. There is an office of tribal transportation and office of tribal government affairs. And I want to know how you are going to work with them to train lawyers and staff under the obligations under the law regarding tribal consultation.
▶ 1:05:40Sen. Schatz: The reason I mention as we did a bunch of things on a bipartisan basis to include the tribes in ways that are novel, but they are now statutory. The problem is that people know what tribal consultation means. D.o.t.
▶ 1:05:56Sen. Schatz: Is not as much and we had a problem with the energy department where this was all new to them so they had like bonding requirements for a 300 person tribe as is the tribe was a municipal government that could go to wall street and get a aaa rating. I want your commitment to work through these issues given your experience at doi, and to help your team understand that tribes cannot be treated like counties.
▶ 1:06:27Sen. Schatz: You have to understand the unique legal and trust obligations between the united states government and tribes.
▶ 1:06:32Mr. Zerzan: Thank you and I hope I can create value in that respect.
▶ 1:06:38Sen. Schatz: Final question with your indulgence. We in the last faa reauthorization I passed a lot of consumer -- a lot in the consumer protection office to further empower this function at the d.o.t.. It is not fully established because it is subject to appropriations and we have not appropriated money. So that function with roof slide under the gc's shop.
▶ 1:07:11Sen. Schatz: And I just want your commitment to fight for consumers in the aviation context and to work together on a couple of specific things like rulemakings that were broadly popular and rational and I am hoping we can work together on protecting aviation consumers.
▶ 1:07:25Ms. Oz: Thanks --
▶ 1:07:27Mr. Zerzan: Thank you and absolutely.
▶ 1:07:30Chair Cruz: Senator lujan.
▶ 1:07:33Sen. Lujan: Thank you for being here today. Is the safety of the american people on america's roads important to you?
▶ 1:07:44Ms. Oz: Critical.
▶ 1:07:46Sen. Schatz: Would you say it is a top or number one priority.
▶ 1:07:50Ms. Oz: It is a critical priority. You worked at google, is that correct? On self-driving car's? They logged over 100,000 miles on public roads and is that all right?
▶ 1:08:05Ms. Oz: More than that.
▶ 1:08:06Sen. Lujan: And there was no public disclosure of that, is that correct?
▶ 1:08:11Ms. Oz: At the time it was less, we are talking about 2010. The testing was compliant with what the company had.
▶ 1:08:20Sen. Lujan: You are on a team and later defended this question saying "keeping the project quiet enabled google to test under the radar of public opinion and lawmakers. We just did not want the program to slow down for any reason." if I could finish. Google took it upon themselves to make the decision for the public and regulators, effectively using public roads. And by extension, american lives as a test.
▶ 1:08:50Sen. Lujan: Do you stand by the decision?
▶ 1:08:51Ms. Oz: The decision was accurate because there was an absence of any kind of regulatory framework and the testing framework had been received. There was no bill at the time in the company went ahead and made testing in accordance to the compliance they received.
▶ 1:09:08Sen. Lujan: Do you believe that innovation should be prioritized over public safety and oversight?
▶ 1:09:14Ms. Oz: Absolutely not.
▶ 1:09:15Sen. Lujan: Do you stand by the decision.
▶ 1:09:18Ms. Oz: I was not in the company when the vehicles were being tested. I was in at 2011. The comment is much later on.
▶ 1:09:27Sen. Lujan: Is this quote attributable to you? That keeping the project quiet?
▶ 1:09:35Ms. Oz: The context was keeping the engineering teams focused, and keeping media and other concerning groups that wanted to know specifics was primarily the reason why we wanted to make sure that we kept the engineering teams focus and there was no distraction. That is the metaphor used to describe that in context.
▶ 1:09:57Sen. Lujan: Is at your quote?
▶ 1:10:00Ms. Oz: Probably. Yes. I would have to see it but I would imagine I would have to make that comment.
▶ 1:10:07Sen. Lujan: What steps will you take to ensure the committee that you will prioritize safety of the american people over the interests of the industry?
▶ 1:10:15Ms. Oz: While we were at google and developing, I was presiding over the work being done to ensure that we had a program that could not be sinkable. That meant having extreme caution exercised on every note on the point of departure to recovery to return the vehicle to home base. That record stands for itself and it is probably still the safest record in the industry.
▶ 1:10:42Sen. Lujan: Have you have heard from all of our colleagues, public safety matters and I appreciate you saying that it is a critical priority and that is something we can agree on. Mr. zerzan, you are the acting and principal solicitor at the department of interior and is that correct? And he previously served as general counsel and chief administrative officer, is that correct?
▶ 1:11:09Mr. Zerzan: That was maybe an energy company that I was in that role at.
▶ 1:11:13Sen. Lujan: You would say you have experienced major inc. -- leading a major office and advising on federal and regulatory issues?
▶ 1:11:22Mr. Zerzan: Yes.
▶ 1:11:23Sen. Lujan: Do you have legal experience in transportation law?
▶ 1:11:28Mr. Zerzan: Not with respect to the department itself but with the interconnectedness of transportation it is unavoidable.
▶ 1:11:36Sen. Lujan: How about infrastructure policy and regulatory issues for example aviation, rail, highway safety and motor carrier rules?
▶ 1:11:45Mr. Zerzan: I am not a lawyer with a substantial amount of background in that set of laws.
▶ 1:11:52Sen. Lujan: The department of transportation general counsel generally needs deep knowledge across transportation specific sectors. Our country faces tremendous transportation safety issues as I was questioning Ms. oz, air traffic controllers and real safety and all the rest. This administration baffles me with it staffing decisions. There are experts that are deep in all of this policy. I appreciate your honesty and candor were. In that response.
▶ 1:12:24Sen. Lujan: I just do not understand, Mr. chairman that with all of the depth of experts in and around specific areas that sometimes this happens. I do not understand. Nothing against you personally and I appreciate the work in the department of interior and I am sure you are fabulous with the energy companies. We should nominate you to be at the department of energy or put you back in the department of the interior because you are doing well. Nonetheless, that is my opinion.
▶ 1:12:54Sen. Lujan: Mr. rutherford, one question I have for you is january 6. I am sorry to bring this up again. But, you posted that you said that january 6 was a disruption.
▶ 1:13:26Sen. Lujan: You said that your father, a former congressman was one of the few to continue to vote against certifying the votes after the january 6 disruption. Would you call january 6 an insurrection?
▶ 1:13:40Mr. Rutherford: Mr. senator, I will tell you that I am the son of a policeman and my father is a congressman. And I certainly do not condone violence against members of our law enforcement. So if you are speaking to that, that is one thing.
▶ 1:14:01Mr. Rutherford: If you are speaking to the certification of the votes, I think every member of congress is required by law to certify the vote and it is not until congress has certified that the president is elected.
▶ 1:14:18Sen. Lujan: Was january 6 and insurrection?
▶ 1:14:22Mr. Rutherford: I would leave that to someone else to describe.
▶ 1:14:31Sen. Lujan: People died that day. Officers were beaten. Some of them are no longer with us. Words matter. If we are going to be leaders in these positions -- if I could finish, my time is up as well. I just hope down the road with some of these things that we remember that it all matters. I appreciate the service of your father as well and the work done in those spaces.
▶ 1:14:58Sen. Lujan: You are all going to be confirmed, but just words matter as we get through all of this. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:15:05Chair Cruz: I think my friend from new mexico and I would know to the department of transportation is unlikely to have any direct responsibilities concerning january 6. If we want to have a discussion about january 6, I am more than happy to do so. I'm happy to say in no way was january 6 and insurrection. I think that is a term loaded with partisan content and and accurately describes what occurred that day.
▶ 1:15:35Chair Cruz: But given this hearing is on d.o.t. Nominees --
▶ 1:15:40Sen. Lujan: I think we can both agree it was a bad day.
▶ 1:15:43Chair Cruz: This is not the right forum for that discussion. >> congratulations to all of you for being nominated. I'm sure you feel the way most people feel in your position, which is it is honored to be asked by the president of the united states to serve your country.
▶ 1:16:00Chair Cruz: You look at your job and making certain we are advancing research and technology in the automobile industry, where do you see a vision of where we are from a transportation perspective in 10 or 15 years? Is private ownership of cars still a factor or are self-driving autonomous vehicles going to be the primary means of transportation?
▶ 1:16:31Chair Cruz: >> it is good to see you. I enjoyed our time together in your office, beautiful offices. We touched on these subjects and I appreciate your interest in the automotive industry and your continued commitment. I believe americans deserve a choice on what type of modality they wish to use to get from point a to point b. In some cases, we may no longer want or need to drive in traffic anymore.
▶ 1:16:57Chair Cruz: In some cases we want to turn on the ignition and just go on a deeper role drive somewhere in the backwoods. We should have that choice. There is some learnings we could take probably from the first use cases for the self-driving car's other than freight will most likely be in the realm of fleet management because it is going to be easier to maintain fleets of vehicles cannot turn them to home base, get them maintained properly.
▶ 1:17:25Chair Cruz: That will also mean more cars being sold in total volume because if you can drive 100,000 miles in one year on a fleet vehicle with 90% utility optimization you can sell more cars. >> I'm not concerned by the number of vehicles sold. I'm concerned about are we looking to replace private ownership of cars. That is my main question. Here is the concern I have.
▶ 1:17:52Chair Cruz: During the biden administration, they had an unhealthy session with ev's and that led to a disastrous amount of government spending on subsidies. They drove car companies almost off the cliff to make ev's. California lost their mind, whatever was left of it, and wanted everybody driving electric vehicles.
▶ 1:18:16Chair Cruz: Things to the congressional review act, we ended that, thanks to our chairman who did a lot of work with the one big, beautiful bill we have made an old-fashioned concept come true, which is car companies should make cars people want to buy. I worry is that we do not want to go from an obsession with ev's to an obsession with av's and me understand level 1 autonomy and level four, totally understand, as long as it is optional, as long as it is not mandated that somebody buy that
▶ 1:18:46Chair Cruz: Tech. My colleagues talk about these should be mandated. I took time to find out what kind of cars they personally drive and you will be shocked to know they did not purchase themselves these advanced driving technologies, so they do not want to spend their own personal money to buy more safety systems in their own cars but want to mandate that same technology for all americans.
▶ 1:19:10Chair Cruz: My question to you, when you are advising our great secretary of transportation, may be we will nominate him to be chairman of the federal reserve too -- he would definitely do a federal job the jerome powell -- I think the quote is four jobs, so shawn still has a couple more left. Back to the point, when you are advising him, I want to be clear eyed about your advice to him.
▶ 1:19:41Chair Cruz: Is it going to be we have to move to level five and start down the path of eliminating private ownership of cars? Or is it how do we invest more in level 1 through level four, drive this technologies to be less expensive, so that more customers on their own, like my colleagues who currently have not chosen to buy those technologies because maybe they thought they were too expensive -- it is a big difference in that conversation.
▶ 1:20:12Ms. Oz: I appreciate the analysis. Cost and affordability a critical measurement and I think I will support all of the above in terms of level one through level four. I do not think we will see level five in my lifetime I sing -- I think we can see this deployed in all types of engines. In that case, I would support your theory on this.
▶ 1:20:38Sen. Moreno: What I do not want is a dystopian future in which big tech controls the transportation industry in america. We talked about this in my office. America did not invent the automobile. The automobile is the ultimate expression of freedom.
▶ 1:20:55Sen. Moreno: The idea that I'm here and I can go wherever I want in a carrion -- in a car I own, I can decide what kind of car to buy with my own money -- it is a concept I democrat colleagues lost sight of. They said all of the above.
▶ 1:21:12Sen. Moreno: They said we want to give consumers choice, but in reality the heavy hand of government was taking away those choices and I want to be clear that from your perspective this is not about mandating or driving america towards a point in time in which the only people that control transportation in this country is giants technology companies that would mind our data and have complete control over our lives because they could control how -- where we went and how we went there.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Moreno: I want to be clear that is not something you would support.
▶ 1:21:44Ms. Oz: I will support the freedom of choice and freedom to drive in this country because it is part of our way of life.
▶ 1:21:53Chair Cruz: Senator kim.
▶ 1:21:57Sen. Kim: Mr. rutherford, the fast act of 2015 require the department transportation to establish the national multimodal freight network to assist states in directing resources and improving our freight system. It is currently the process of developing this network and published a draft that includes the rail line highways and airports.
▶ 1:22:23Sen. Kim: I believe the effort is crucial for effectively modernizing systems and can serve as a larger purpose to help guide our own support, so I wanted to ask if you could commit that the national multimodal freight network be finalized under your leadership, should you be confirmed.
▶ 1:22:43Mr. Rutherford: I agree about the significance of it within d.o.t. But also individual and state dot. It is a key area of alignment across a federal, state, and local levels and finalizing that is a priority day one if confirmed.
▶ 1:23:02Sen. Kim: Is that something you would work with me on, to make sure we keep that going?
▶ 1:23:08Mr. Rutherford: Absolutely. The way I look at the network is it gives us a sense of the current state of play and that needs to be the point of departure from which we then develop broader national freight strategic plan.
▶ 1:23:20Sen. Kim: There is the freight logistics optimization initiative. It is crucial to understanding and responding to the supply chain disruptions. This was launched in 2020 two in response to supply chain disruptions that we were facing at the time and establishes that public-private partnership between industry partners and the government so we can have a better understanding of purchase order data.
▶ 1:23:48Sen. Kim: I wanted to ask, if you are confirmed, could you commit to continuing this program and working with congress to ensure its success?
▶ 1:23:54Mr. Rutherford: Yes. Supply chain visibility is everything. I like to describe transportation as being an outdoor sport. You have to be able to change as the operating environment changes. That forward-looking visibility is helpful. And we have a great point of -- base from which to build. There is more we can do with that.
▶ 1:24:22Mr. Rutherford: I look forward to exploring those opportunities if confirmed.
▶ 1:24:26Sen. Kim: We want to make sure we never have that kind of supply chain disruption. The effect cost on families and higher prices and other issues. I'm glad to hear that and I hope to be able to work with you on that.
▶ 1:24:42Sen. Kim: I would like to follow up on some points a colleague of mine asked you earlier about the autonomous vehicle efforts, especially when it comes to google, and terms of issues about google disclosing that the self-driving car is locked over 140,000 miles, disclosed in 2010.
▶ 1:25:03Sen. Kim: Wanted to ask you again, do you think there's any reason for google to disclose and be able to be more transparent about the training and testing they were doing when it came to autonomous vehicles?
▶ 1:25:21Ms. Oz: Google was at the time operating under a testing scenario which was fully compliant with capabilities and decision to test on public roads was also compliant. That was during the time I had not joined yet so my comments were made after the fact and were more related to the ability for them to test and lead and not be distracted and focus on what they were doing so as not to be distracted by outside comments and interests.
▶ 1:25:54Sen. Kim: Now that you are seeking a position that will have oversight over this in terms of -- I can see how you can have that position when you were working for google, but where's the line here? Where's the line at which a company needs to be transparent about testing and testing technology that is still not fully proven? Still has concerns over accidents?
▶ 1:26:20Sen. Kim: And doing it in the general public without public understanding that this is being tested? Uncertain when these tests are going to occur, doing it alongside others. I guess I am trying to think through where does that go from here? Where do you draw the line?
▶ 1:26:38Ms. Oz: The rules have changed since then. Right now, we do have statewide regulations on what is required by each state. It is fairly open and transparent, but there is no federal framework now. That is the reason I am here, to help form it and other regulatory policy on how we can most safely, using the most unbiased and objective data, ensure that we do this in a public domain and scale.
▶ 1:27:08Sen. Kim: As I am wrapping up here, I want to raise a point -- I do think there needs to be conversation across the state as well. It makes me uneasy about what position you would take when it comes to a position -- if your position is going to stand by the kind of approach google and other companies should be able to do whatever they do because public criticism or transparency is going to get in the way, is going to distract them.
▶ 1:27:40Sen. Kim: I do not think congressional oversight or ability to look into what companies are doing is about distracting companies. I do think there should be public transparency so I am worried about what position you will take when it comes to federal rules and approaches and with that I will yield back.
▶ 1:28:00Chair Cruz: I want to thank each of the nominees for being here. My final question is required of all nominees. If confirmed, do you pledge to work collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to committee requests and to appear before the committee when requested?
▶ 1:28:18Ms. Oz: I do.
▶ 1:28:20Mr. Rutherford: I do.
▶ 1:28:21Mr. Zerzan: Yes.
▶ 1:28:23Chair Cruz: Senators will have until the close of business friday, july 25 to submit questions for the record. Nominees will have until close of business on monday, july 28 to respond to questions. That concludes the hearing. The committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]