▶ 0:28:27>> I will thank everyone for being here. I will give my opening remarks and then senator welch will get his remarks. Thank you for being here for the hearing titled ending a legal d.e.I. Discrimination and preferences come in forcing our civil rights laws. This is the third hearing of our subcommittee on the constitution which I co-chair alongside ranking member peter welch.
▶ 0:28:58I want to thank the wooden dishes -- the witnesses here today for being accommodating. Ranking member welch requested in april we hold a hearing with assistant attorney general dylan just a couple weeks before, or after she was confirmed.
▶ 0:29:21Now that she has passed the 100 day mark so grateful she has agreed to testify about her historic successes so far and the important work she is doing on today's topic. Let me begin with a already but necessary truths. For at least the last decade america's civil rights laws have been used not to prohibit discrimination but to institutionalize it.
▶ 0:29:46The modern civil rights regime both inside and outside of government has been wielded by a weapon, not to safeguard the equal rights of all citizens, but to engineer a radical new social order built upon the deliberate dispossession of huge swaths of our country. Rather than protecting the constitutional order of the founders, it has become the vanguard for moral underpinnings of american society.
▶ 0:30:17The revolution has gone by many names. Affirmative action, antiracism, social justice. Today, it most commonly is referred to as diversity, equity, and inclusion, or dei. But whatever the name is, in every instance in amounts to the same thing. A new racial cast system sanctioned and enforced by the administrative state. Americans never voted for any of this.
▶ 0:30:45It slunk in through the back door cloaked in bureaucratic doublespeak and soothing euphemisms. But today it has wrapped itself around all the great institutions of american life. Our schools, our businesses, our government, and even our armed forces. The bureaucracies of this new system are the diversity officers, the human rights commissioners, the hr managers, and select members of the groups at the top of the victim hierarchy.
▶ 0:31:15The victims are the rest of america. Smart, working-class kid who can't get a scholarship because of his skin color. The christian business owner targeted and persecuted for his faith. The patriotic young west point cadet subjected to mandatory struggle sessions for their toxic masculinity. Dei isn't just a legal, it is a fraudulent and cynical ideology from top to bottom build on layers of lies.
▶ 0:31:43It is not about diversity, it is about discrimination, a sustained campaign of collective punishment wrapped in the rhetoric of social justice. It is not about equity. It is about retribution. The advocates of dei don't actually want to level the playing field. They aren't interested in equality under the law. Their entire mission is to elevate members of certain groups over members of other groups and remake america in their own image.
▶ 0:32:11And finally, it is not about inclusion. It is about exclusion of the competent, the qualified, the meritorious, and those people are members of the wrong race or sex. Over the past few decades these poisonous and legal doctrines have transformed our institutions. In our universities, dei has meant the abolishment of merit.
▶ 0:32:36It is meant -- it has meant the open proud rejection of excellence and achievement in favor of racial quotas. Even now the supreme court ruled race-based admissions are legal for students in fair admissions versus harvard but universities continue to flout the law. Rebranding their quotas, quote them in essay prompts and hiring practices and policies. But keeping the racial spoils system intact.
▶ 0:33:06At harvard, at princeton, at standard, the share of underrepresented minority groups did not meaningfully change after the supreme court's ruling and in some cases increased despite huge disparities in test scores and academic preparation. Just earlier today dei administrators at the university of tennessee and vanderbilt were recorded gleefully discussing how they sidestepped dei crackdowns by simply rebranding these initiatives.
▶ 0:33:34In the corporate world, dei s have the same effect. It has meant hiring and promotion not on the basis of competence but on the basis of race and sex. A world where one's place in the new caste system determines who rises and who falls. It has meant diversity fellowships that offer double pay, which white men need not apply.
▶ 0:34:02The effect of these policies has been even more extreme than many might guess. In the year after the black lives matter protests bloomberg reported the s&p 100 added more than 300,000 jobs. 94% when two people of color. 94%. In many blue states dei is now entrenched in every level of government decision-making.
▶ 0:34:29At the federal level it has produced a vast universe of civil service preferences, taxpayer funded minority on the grandson opened racial discrimination in contracting. Under the biden administration, farmers in the midwest were told they could not get debt relief. Restaurants were deemed ineligible for small business grants. And small business owners were barred from lucrative federal contracts, all for the crime of being too male or too white.
▶ 0:34:56Much of this took place in the wake of covid, where years of rolling lockdowns decimated many small businesses and drove countless others to the brink. In the face of all that, the biden administration redistributed billions of dollars from taxpayers to members of what they deemed to be socially disadvantaged groups while leaving the rest of america out in the cold.
▶ 0:35:18The rest of america, to be clear, refers to the majority of people in this country, brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers, good white people who work hard and expect only a basic standard of fairness from the government and return. Americans didn't vote for this.
▶ 0:35:38Instead they voted for the 14th amendment and are numerous civil rights laws that mandate equal protection on the law, not remedial power and monetary redistribution. Let me be even more clear. The only just and legitimate interpretation of our civil rights laws in the -- is what the text plainly demands. Equal treatment under the law.
▶ 0:36:01That means an end to racial preferences, ane end to double standards, an end to disparate impact which -- a totalitarian logic that demands a total leveling of society to achieve its ends.
▶ 0:36:22Ensuring perfectly equal outcomes across groups would require a level of marxist social engineering that would make stalinist russia looked like a libertarian paradise and it would still fail. Our civil rights laws and reconstruction amendments were created to end a racial caste system, not perpetuate it. We must -- we must -- we must -- sorry.
▶ 0:36:50Based on the plain and unambiguous language in the meaning of the text to dismantle a system that to restore equal treatment under the law. That means prosecuting illegal racial preferences and quotas wherever they exist. In colleges, boardrooms, state bureaucracies, and federal government. It means demanding every entity receiving federal funds complied to the letter with the mandates of the law.
▶ 0:37:16When president trump and the department of justice is doing that. Under the leadership of people like harmeet k. Dhillon, we have moved to reassert the principle that civil rights belong to all american citizens, not just a select and favored few. The trump administration has embarked on a shock and awe offensive against dei.
▶ 0:37:39In just the first six months they have launched a major civil rights investigation into the university of california system for its race and sex-based hiring practices and quotas. The opened active investigations into 45 universities including ivy league schools like harvard and columbia for using illegal racial preferences and student fellowships and admission practices. The end of the doctrine of desperate impact in federal enforcement of civil rights law.
▶ 0:38:07They revoked decades-old executive orders that had embedded affirmative action into the dna of the federal government and terminated all dei positions and offices across the federal bureaucracy. They filed a major court challenge to discriminatory federal programs that had excluded thousands of workers and small businesses from hundreds of billions of dollars in government contracts.
▶ 0:38:29They launched a civil rights investigation into the harvard law review for discriminating on the basis of race and article and editorial board selection and threatened to strip them of funds. They began pursuing title vii enforcement actions against law firms that openly advertised diversity fellowships for which white men could not apply, programs that are plainly illegal under federal law. These actions are just the beginning.
▶ 0:38:57But they represent at long last an attempt by the american government to apply our civil rights laws as they were actually written. For too long we allow the civil rights apparatus to be weaponized against the very rights it was supposed to protect. For too long the people who ran our government looked the other way, or worse, actively partnered with those who are engaged in outright racial discrimination. Those days are over.
▶ 0:39:22Today's hearing is about reaffirming a simple but radical truth, that all americans are entitled to equal protection of our laws and that no americans should be treated as second-class citizens in their own country. As chief justice roberts so eloquently put it, the way to strop -- stop this commission on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. The same goes for every protected class under our civil rights laws.
▶ 0:39:47The trump administration has done extraordinary work in beginning a long and difficult task of restoring this principle in the conduct of our government. This subcommittee is going to do the necessary work to ensure we do everything in our power to finish that job. With that, I would like to thank our witnesses for being here and I look forward to your testimony. I turned it over to my friend peter welch from the great state of vermont.
▶ 0:40:12Sen. Welch: Thank you Mr. chairman. I really appreciate you calling this hearing. The questions before us are profound. They are being tested and litigated and they are being contested politically. The question before this congress is whether we are going to save the civil rights division, for we are going to destroy it. And I want to step back just a moment.
▶ 0:40:37Sen. Welch: The civil rights division is a crown jewel in the department of justice of the united states of america. It was founded in 1957. It was founded by a republican president, dwight d. Eisenhower. It was when we were beginning to come out of the dark days of legalized discrimination, the jim crow laws in the south. Lynchings, denial of voting rights, discrimination in housing.
▶ 0:41:08Sen. Welch: Congress began slowly to address this with the laws. The civil rights division and the department of justice, in a very turbulent time, had the responsibility to enforce the laws. The laws of the congress that were passed by congress, not the prerogatives of the president. And it did extraordinary work then, as it is doing ow.
▶ 0:41:37Sen. Welch: They investigated assassinations of martin luther king, medgar evers. They brought landmark cases to desegregate cool districts in the south against bitter opposition, to allow the decision that separate but equal would not stand. It also took the lead in making voting a reality for folks who couldn't vote. You know, Mr.
▶ 0:42:05Sen. Welch: Chairman, I began my career, I guess it is in politics, because of the civil rights era. I went to chicago as a community organizer and I was shocked as a young man to see that black folks in the west side of chicago in lawndale who had two jobs, who were struggling to pay their bills, who were looking to make their schools better, they couldn't buy a house and get a mortgage. It was legal to deny them a mortgage.
▶ 0:42:37Sen. Welch: It was legal for the veteran affairs department to deny folks who served as soldiers in world war ii to get a v.a. Guarantee. It was legal under the illinois law to evict folks who were paying on contract to buy a home. But if they missed a payment after 10 years because somebody got sick, or you got laid off from your job, legally, they could have their entire house taken back and have no equity. Civil rights division folks who are in their fighting for the rights of those americans.
▶ 0:43:10Sen. Welch: That battle continues and that is what we are going to be testifying about today. But the most important thing that we have to remember is that there was a congressional responsibility to establish laws about what rights individuals had, regardless of their race, their gender, their sexual orientation. And those were the laws that were enforced by the department of justice through the civil rights division.
▶ 0:43:38Sen. Welch: And I am so indebted to those lawyers who made a decision, often to say no to a career on wall street or k street or market street in san francisco, and to be here in the justice department to advocate and represent the rights of citizens as those were defined by the congress of the united states. It is a new day. And our witness here is going to testify, I look forward to hearing what her testimony is.
▶ 0:44:08Sen. Welch: But there is a profound difference in the justice department today than there was the day before the election. And that is the new policy directives that are being issued to doj attorneys is the zealous and faithful pursuit that, quote, the priorities of the president. No! It's the priorities of the constitution. It's the priorities of the legislation passed by congress.
▶ 0:44:39Sen. Welch: It is not the priorities of any person, even if that person is the president of the united states. That is not what the job of the justice department is to do. So today, Mr. chairman, I so appreciate your statement, you are engaging this issue. But I am going to have to say we are going to have some disagreement along the way. I yield back.
▶ 0:45:02Chair Schmitt: That is america. I will introduce our witness. Ms. harmeet dhillon is assistant attorney general for civil rights nominated by president donald trump in december 2020 four and confirmed by the U.S. senate april 3, 2025 and sworn in by attorney general pam bondi on april 7, 2025.
▶ 0:45:25Chair Schmitt: Prior to joining the division she founded the dolan law group a successful legal practice with offices in california, florida, virginia, and a nonprofit organization dedicated to pursuing civil rights legal claims -- civil liberties legal claims. For law practice focused on first amendment, free speech, civil rights, and campaign and election law issues. Among her many notable cases Ms.
▶ 0:45:50Chair Schmitt: Dhillon brought legal challenges against university california berkeley for assault on conservative journalists, again several states for responses to covid-19, and against various large tech companies for a host of civil rights issues. Assistant attorney general Ms. dhillon was born in india before moving to the bronx. After graduating high school at the age of 16, Ms.
▶ 0:46:20Chair Schmitt: Dhillon attended dartmouth where she became editor-in-chief of the dartmouth review. After earning her bachelor's degree in classical studies he attended the university of virginia school of law and served on the editorial board of the virginia law review. She later clerked for the honorable paul niemeyer of the court of appeals for the fourth circuit. Ms. dhillon, it is a tradition of the committee to swear in all witnesses who testify before. Please stand and raise your right hand.
▶ 0:46:48Chair Schmitt: Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god? Thank you. Thank you, Ms. dhillon. Your opening statement.
▶ 0:47:02Hon. Dhillon: Good afternoon chairman schmitt, ranking member welch, and other members of the committee. I'm honored to testify on ending racial discrimination and preferences through vigorous enforcement of our federal civil rights laws. I look forward to working with all of you to ensure that we successfully dismantle all forms of invidious racial discrimination from our society.
▶ 0:47:27Hon. Dhillon: On january 21, president trump signed executive order 14173 titled ending illegal discrimination and restoring merit-based opportunity. The executive order stated that race and sex-based preferences under the guise of so-called diversity, equity, and inclusion violate the text and spirit of our long-standing civil rights laws.
▶ 0:47:49Hon. Dhillon: Dei initiatives unlawfully discriminate against, classify, exclude from participation, or denied benefits to individuals based on race, sex, or other prohibitive characteristics. The order announced it is a policy of the united states to protect the civil rights of all americans against illegal dei initiatives. Enforcement of that policy is not that he delegated to meet.
▶ 0:48:14Hon. Dhillon: Just last week I reach the milestone of my first 100 days in office and under the leadership of attorney general pam bondi we have been busy implementing president trump's bold agenda for ending illegal dei for all americans. I will highlight some of our work for you today. Here are some of the ways we have taken steps to end dei in education.
▶ 0:48:36Hon. Dhillon: First, as a result of multifaceted investigations into illegal dei-based disk termination, harassment and abuse at major so-called elite universities and colleges, the division is now in discussion with many educational institutions to end all unlawful dei programs throughout these schools, including in their law, medical, nursing, and other specialty disciplines.
▶ 0:49:02Hon. Dhillon: Second, we are actively invested getting several prominent colleges and universities regarding granted -- rampant anti-semitism, ending anti-semitic abuse on college campuses nationwide. Third starting in april we opened investigations into 50 major universities, 16 top law schools, and seven medical schools by sending letters requesting any changes to admissions processes.
▶ 0:49:29Hon. Dhillon: We are also investigating racially discriminatory admissions practices at selective public high schools. Fourth, we are engaged in several lawsuits and investigations into title ix discrimination against the rights and safety of women and girls in classrooms, athletic fields, dormitories, and other facilities. As a result of our efforts, several institutions have reversed course already.
▶ 0:49:53Hon. Dhillon: Fifth, we are investigating the university of california for its race and sex-based discriminatory hiring practices under uc's 2030 capacity plan. The civil rights division has also acted in various employment-related matters. First, we are investigating minnesota's hiring and employment practices. State policies appear to require agencies to engage in illegal race and sex-based hiring in violation of title vii.
▶ 0:50:22Hon. Dhillon: Second, we are investigating the hennepin county policy that requires race-based decision-making and plea agreements. The investigation is ongoing though that office has refused to cooperate with our investigation. Third, we are investigating rhode island regarding its affirmative action plan that sets race-based hiring goals across its government. In light of rhode island's refusal to cooperate we are assessing our next steps under title vii.
▶ 0:50:48Hon. Dhillon: Fourth, we are investigating chicago's racially discriminatory hiring practices permeating its government. This is just a small fraction of the extensive portfolio of actions we have taken towards ending dei in my first 100 days in office. Every day my team assesses new opportunities to combat invidious racial discrimination from diligently pursuing investigations, the drafting and filing federal civil rights lawsuit. We strive to protect the civil rights of all americans against illegal dei initiatives.
▶ 0:51:20Hon. Dhillon: In his famous descent in plessy versus ferguson, justice john marshall harlan wrote the law regards man as man and takes no account of his surrounding or of his collar. But his civil rights are guaranteed by the supreme law of the land are involved.
▶ 0:51:36Hon. Dhillon: Nearly 130 years later, justice ketanji brown jackson echoed this sentiment in aames versus ohio department of youth services writing that the civil rights discrimination against any individual because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
▶ 0:51:57Hon. Dhillon: While the division's jurisdiction is governed by statute, we work closely with the chair of the eeoc and has of other executive branch agencies to combat illegal dei initiatives and to uphold the civil rights of all americans. With these efforts underway senators, the goal is clear. Either dei will end on its own, or we will kill it. I look forward to exploring ways to bolster the division's enforcement authority so we can completely root out discrimination in all its forms.
▶ 0:52:28Hon. Dhillon: Thank you.
▶ 0:52:28Chair Schmitt: Thank you. I want to get to my time for questioning and get through three questions. Um, um, the first is about your priorities and second is about rebranding of dei we are starting to see and how you see it in the corporate sector as well. I will give you an additional opportunity to amplify. How are you with this mission of ending racial discrimination? What are your priorities across the sectors in making sure civil rights laws are applied to protect individual rights?
▶ 0:52:58Hon. Dhillon: Thank you for the question. It is a big job because as you pointed out in your opening remarks, discrimination in the guise of dei has permeated every level of our society. And so we are taking our guidance from the priorities of this administration and the obvious violations that are occurring, coupled with the recent supreme court precedents that make our obligations clear.
▶ 0:53:23Hon. Dhillon: With students for fair admissions setting their way and making clear the types of discrimination that our universities have engaged in for decades is illegal, that is a key focus because there are billions and billions of dollars, some universities we are investigating themselves receive over $1 billion a year in federal funding. So our responsibility towards the taxpayers requires us to focus on those big ticket items. But we are also looking at offenders up and down the spectrum.
▶ 0:53:51Hon. Dhillon: In the employment field, similarly, you mentioned there is a lot of discrimination happening in the big american corporations. But we are also seeing it throughout state and local governments. Again, we feel it is important for the economy and for the civil rights enforcement priorities to pursue those violations wherever we find them. And then of course I have a large portfolio beyond the dei issues. We do our best with the various resources that we have.
▶ 0:54:19Chair Schmitt: You've got a busy job. Dei now, I think the public has been educated to a much larger degree than five years ago about what that really means jan flowery language. But there is an effort now with some dei programs to use other vague terms to cloak the very divisive and discriminatory policies. Whether it is community belonging initiatives, and they relocate their staff in other ways that are not called dei officers anymore.
▶ 0:54:49Chair Schmitt: What are you doing or how are you identifying this, and how would you approach addressing that as well? Because it is the same thing.
▶ 0:54:57Hon. Dhillon: When I hear the words or the slogan dei, what I hear is discrimination, exclusion, and intolerance. That is what we are seeing throughout all these programs nationally. We are relying on the public and whistleblowers throughout these organizations to let us know when this type of fake rebranding is occurring and yet the same personnel and the same policies are continuing to perpetuate illegal discrimination on american citizens. And we are taking action.
▶ 0:55:28Hon. Dhillon: We are opening up investigations. Sometimes it simply opening an investigation results in the individuals who are blatantly flouting our federal civil rights laws being terminated or reassigned or otherwise. And so we are seeing these actions take place throughout the united states and I am pleased to say that in response to several of the letters I sent to open federal civil rights investigations, many schools are voluntarily providing us the data requested and showing us they are indeed honoring and following civil rights laws.
▶ 0:55:58Chair Schmitt: So as your department gets back to enforcing the plain language of the statute, there are also violations that exist in the corporate world, whether it is edicts from ceo's with the board rooms or hr, lawyers, who are seeking to again discriminate by another term. What are you guys doing? Are you relying on whistleblowers there? What can you share with us?
▶ 0:56:30Chair Schmitt: This is predominant in big law, they don't even try to hide it. What are you doing to identify that and pursue that?
▶ 0:56:36Hon. Dhillon: The primary jurisdiction for private employment lies with the eeoc and I have almost daily conversations with their chair. Many of those conversations are confidential and I cannot share details of those. But I will say in the instances in which many of these top corporations are also government contractors, for example the defense industry or tech industries, the agencies hiring them or giving them grants also have jurisdiction to open up investigations.
▶ 0:57:07Hon. Dhillon: Those investigations are happening throughout the U.S. federal government. And when they are concluded without satisfactory resolution or termination of dei policies these matters are referred to the civil rights division for further enforcement. So we're just getting started after our first 100 days but I can promise throughout the tenure of this administration, there'll will be numerous investigations and lawsuits against institutions that continue to offend our silver allies -- civil rights laws.
▶ 0:57:33Chair Schmitt: Do you think it would be helpful if this committee were to subpoena or otherwise bring forward entities that might be in violation of this as well?
▶ 0:57:44Hon. Dhillon: Unequivocally yes.
▶ 0:57:46Chair Schmitt: Thank you. Ok. Well, sounds like a plan.
▶ 0:57:50Sen. Welch: Thank you very much. Ms. dhillon, who won the 2020 election for president?
▶ 0:57:58Hon. Dhillon: I previously testified on this matter. President biden was declared winner of that election and I honor that.
▶ 0:58:06Sen. Welch: You cannot say he won?
▶ 0:58:10Hon. Dhillon: He was president for four years.
▶ 0:58:15Sen. Welch: Most of us know that. [laughter] I am asking if he won.
▶ 0:58:21Hon. Dhillon: I have answered your question.
▶ 0:58:23Sen. Welch: You haven't. [blank stare]
▶ 0:58:34Sen. Welch: I want to ask you a question about texas redistricting. As you know, president trump has recently encouraged texas republicans to do midcycle redistricting in order to gain more seats in the house of representatives.
▶ 0:58:51Sen. Welch: I understand that after the president made that announcement, you personally sent a letter on july 7 to texas in your capacity as assistant attorney general, arguing that four democratic districts violate federal law. Is that the case?
▶ 0:59:08Hon. Dhillon: It is the case that I sent a letter under my authority to administer the voting rights act and indicate that in light of our analysis of four so-called coalition districts in texas, that those districts were inconsistent with the voting rights act.
▶ 0:59:27Sen. Welch: And the date of july 7 was just coincidental, that occurred after the president called on the texas legislature to do decade redistricting?
▶ 0:59:38Hon. Dhillon: I don't remember what date. I probably sent 300 letters since I have been in his office. I can say I sent no letter or make no request without proper investigation.
▶ 0:59:49Sen. Welch: Have you sent any other state legislature a letter where you have indicated that districts within their state are in violation of federal law?
▶ 1:00:00Hon. Dhillon: Not yet.
▶ 1:00:03Sen. Welch: More redistricting to come?
▶ 1:00:06Hon. Dhillon: I don't know.
▶ 1:00:08Sen. Welch: Before you sent the letter on july 7 did you have any conversation with any representatives of the white house?
▶ 1:00:17Hon. Dhillon: As you are aware there are privileges involved in all executive branch communications and without -- I am not able to testify without breaching the department of justice's guidelines in that regard so I cannot answer any questions about conversations I may have had with other executive branch officials.
▶ 1:00:36Sen. Welch: I am not asking you with the content of the conversation was. I am asking whether there was any conversation with anyone from the white house before you sent that july 7 letter.
▶ 1:00:47Hon. Dhillon: I have the same answer. I think you are aware of the broad scope of privileges that apply to lawyer conduct.
▶ 1:00:54Sen. Welch: Here's what I am aware of. The president made a directive which is highly unusual telling a legislature, the texas legislature, mid-decade to do redistricting, when we do that every 10 years. And oh,m it just so happened the assistant attorney general sent a letter to that legislature after the president made his announcement and said that you are a -- your --.
▶ 1:01:25Hon. Dhillon: Is there a question, senator?
▶ 1:01:29Sen. Welch: It is hard to believe that was not coordinated.
▶ 1:01:33Hon. Dhillon: Let me draw your attention to a different fact that refutes your argument. Namely, the government of the state that I called home for 25 years also called for redistricting and the state of california and I haven't sent a letter to california. Correlation is not causation.
▶ 1:01:52Sen. Welch: Which core districts did you say were in violation?
▶ 1:01:57Hon. Dhillon: If you wish to have a follow up with me about that I am happy to.
▶ 1:02:03Sen. Welch: Would I be surprised that those were democratic districts?
▶ 1:02:09Hon. Dhillon: I don't know how to answer that. -- trying to distract from the purpose of this hearing which is to talk about dei but that is not what I am prepared to testify about here today.
▶ 1:02:23Sen. Welch: You have put a freeze on activities that the justice department in your division had done before. And you have walked out of settlements. I'm going to talk about lowndes county in alabama.
▶ 1:02:41Hon. Dhillon: I think you are misinformed. There was a temporary freeze prior to my taking office. There is no freeze on activities. I filed numerous lawsuits, opened dozens of investigations, entered into numerous settlements, opened hate crime designations. I don't know what you're talking about.
▶ 1:03:00Sen. Welch: I don't have that much time so we will have to take this up in the second round of questioning so I yield back.
▶ 1:03:06Chair Schmitt: Before we get to senator lee, it is worth pointing out that texas's current congressional map is drawn to comply. If they don't re-draw the line it will be found invalid under the decision. Senator lee.
▶ 1:03:24Sen. Lee: Thank you Ms. dhillon for being here today. Over the course of time in our country we have seen that a lot of people have worked really hard for a long time to try to divide our nation along racial lines. Now, history may not repeat itself but it often rhymes.
▶ 1:03:44Sen. Lee: And in nearly every era of american history people have done this, perhaps sensing deep down that this is wrong, that it is just fundamentally wrong, try to justify it. Almost invariably they will couch it in terms of it is better for everyone, in terms that make it sound charitable and kind, it is for everyone's good. That was the case for example in brown v. Board of education.
▶ 1:04:14Sen. Lee: The defendants in that case defending their own pattern of racial discrimination said it is ok because our subjective motivation for doing this is benevolent, it is not malicious. We think this is best for the educational experience. And yet it is wrong and also contrary to the direct terms of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment and since then it has been made doubly illegal, in violation of a number of federal civil rights laws.
▶ 1:04:41Sen. Lee: Now, one of many more recent modern examples of this attempt to divide american citizens on the basis of race involves the use of disparate impact policies. Policies that in many circumstances effectively encourage racial hiring quotas and erode equal opportunity of employment. When you are doing that, you are violating the law, it would seem to me.
▶ 1:05:10Sen. Lee: Because you are treating people differently on the basis of race. And that is something that title vii and the employment context prohibits. It is why I introduced a bill called the restoring equal opportunity act, to codify president trump's executive order banning the use of these disparate impact programs that themselves end up imposing de facto racial hiring quotas.
▶ 1:05:39Sen. Lee: How, in your view, has this concept of disparate impact and the use of disparate impact policies undermine equal opportunity in hiring?
▶ 1:05:47Hon. Dhillon: Senator, I have been a civil rights lawyer for over three decades now, and what we have seen is the well-meaning quota-based systems that you have described have resulted not in equal opportunity for individuals, but in a group form of justice that is more of a marxist concept and it is frankly inconsistent with our enlightenment inspired constitutional values that guarantee equal opportunity for
▶ 1:06:17Hon. Dhillon: Every individual. And so I think that is really the philosophical difference. If you believe in equality or equity-based outcomes as opposed to individual rights and opportunity, that is where the distinction falls. An hour civil rights laws are clear and as recently as this year since I have been in office in the ames case, the U.S.
▶ 1:06:39Hon. Dhillon: Supreme court has reiterated that every individual is entitled to equal consideration under the law under title vii and not simply have a higher burden of proof because they happen to be a majority plaintiff.
▶ 1:06:52Sen. Lee: People in that circumstance can make hiring determinations for example on a range of criteria. But there are some criteria that are inappropriate and perhaps raise his chief among them. What are some examples that you have seen of employers or of universities misusing race-neutral civil rights laws in order to justify discrimination?
▶ 1:07:14Hon. Dhillon: Well, senator, you see so many examples of racially exclusive scholarships. You see hiring opportunities or programs in both faculty as well as other staff that require a quote unquote racially diverse pool at every step of the hiring process.
▶ 1:07:39Hon. Dhillon: Effectively at multiple levels it excludes multiple individuals from being able to qualify, compete, and get to the end of that process. What you even see today after all these civil rights laws and all these supreme court precedents, blatantly racist ads from some of these institutions of higher learning soliciting input from so-called disadvantaged minority groups. These are legal.
▶ 1:08:05Hon. Dhillon: You are also seeing response in other cases of video requirements in applications now that bring back racist attach a photograph to your job application which allows racial discrimination. That is something we need to look at eliminating as well.
▶ 1:08:24Sen. Lee: In the context of law firms specifically, law firms are one category of employer that you would expect to be especially aware of developments in the law. What have you seen from among law firms in terms of their willingness to follow federal civil rights laws as they have been interpreted and clarified in recent years by the supreme court?
▶ 1:08:45Hon. Dhillon: I left the big loss fear over two decades ago because of odious and persistent racial discrimination that permeated those institutions and it is not better today than it was back then. This is also perpetuated by employers and big pension funds that require racist gerrymandering, if you will, of the staff that service them at these law firms. We really have to change these practices throughout. The eeoc is tackling discrimination at law firms.
▶ 1:09:15Hon. Dhillon: I think it will be a long haul but ultimately with persistence we will be able to level that playing field.
▶ 1:09:19Sen. Lee: My time expired but it sounds like you don't disagree with the assertion that benevolent motives don't negate the violation of the law and issue.
▶ 1:09:28Hon. Dhillon: I would agree and so would the justices of the supreme court.
▶ 1:09:32Chair Schmitt: Senator schiff.
▶ 1:09:38Sen. Schiff: Your recently announced a video jet was launching an investigation into the university of california for its plan which notes the future growth of faculty and students should result in campus populations that better reflect and tap the talent of underrepresented populations who represent the majority of californians. In the sffa vs.
▶ 1:09:57Sen. Schiff: Harvard opinion, the supreme court held that nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of rachel ray's affected his or her life through discrimination or otherwise, allowing universities continue assessing race on an individualized basis.
▶ 1:10:23Sen. Schiff: In that opinion, justice thomas praised the university of california for achieving diversity through race-neutral policies including preferences for low income applicants and first income students and recruiting efforts targeted areas with substantial populations of people of color.
▶ 1:10:39Sen. Schiff: Are the race-neutral policies like those used by the university of california, which justice thomas explicitly praised, now continued -- now thought to be by you to be illegal dei?
▶ 1:10:54Hon. Dhillon: The investigation we have open is an investigation and it is an investigation into the hiring policies of the university of california system, not the admissions policies. That said, I have absolutely seen abuses in the admissions policies --.
▶ 1:11:11Sen. Schiff: With respect, that is not the question I asked you. Are the race-neutral policies praised by justice thomas now considered by you to be illegal dei?
▶ 1:11:23Hon. Dhillon: You are mixing apples and oranges.
▶ 1:11:26Sen. Schiff: You can answer my question and say yes they are now illegal. That is what justice thomas praised in terms of race-neutral policies, which include preferences for low income applicants, first-generation students, things like that. Or are you now saying what justice thomas praised is now illegal, in your view?
▶ 1:11:48Hon. Dhillon: There is a difference between what you see on paper and reality. I reject your premise.
▶ 1:11:56Sen. Schiff: I am asking you about whether you subscribe to the supreme court's opinion or whether you disagree with justice thomas. You can answer that, can't you?
▶ 1:12:10Hon. Dhillon: In the abstract, yes.
▶ 1:12:12Sen. Schiff: So justice thomas got it wrong is what you are saying?
▶ 1:12:16Hon. Dhillon: I am not saying that.
▶ 1:12:18Sen. Schiff: You are saying that. He was praising the policies of the university of california. You are now saying any policy giving preference to low income is illegal dei. Or if they put a focus on first-generation students that is somehow impermissible. After all the years of criticism of cancel culture, you seem to want to cancel any institution that has views that you disagree with.
▶ 1:12:46Sen. Schiff: In answer to the questions about law firms, you want to cancel law firms because they take on unpopular clients to you and the administration. That is, if a firm represents someone with an adverse interest to the administration, which is their first amendment to do and their duty to do, you would cancel them. You would cancel universities like harvard or the university of virginia that take positions and exercise their first amendment rights contrary to what you think the administration wants to see.
▶ 1:13:16Sen. Schiff: You would cancel the associated press for not using the ridiculous nomenclature of the gulf of america. You are canceling now the wall street journal because the wall street journal had the audacity to publish an article about trump's connections to jeffrey epstein. So, this is what is going on in this administration you have devastated the civil rights division. 368 attorneys have departed since january of this year.
▶ 1:13:44Sen. Schiff: There has been a mass exodus from the civil rights department. It is a shell of what it used to be. They are being canceled. They are being canceled by you, by the department, anyone who stands up to this president is at risk of being canceled. And I think what you are doing to use the sledgehammer of federal funding with universities to try and coerce them to accept, in your right-wing agenda, is disgraceful.
▶ 1:14:17Sen. Schiff: And using that cudgel will have far-reaching implications, attacking research done by universities, academic independence done by universities, able to establish a dangerous precedent that can be abused by a president of any party. And we should recognize that on a bipartisan basis we should recognize that on a bipartisan business even though he does not appear that we do. I yield back.
▶ 1:14:44Chair Schmitt: Senator kennedy.
▶ 1:14:48Sen. Kennedy: Thank you, Mr. chairman. General, how are you?
▶ 1:14:52Ms. Dhillon: I'm well, sir, thank you.
▶ 1:14:58Sen. Kennedy: , general you believe in diversity, don't you?
▶ 1:15:03Ms. Dhillon: I do, sir, yes.
▶ 1:15:07Sen. Kennedy: And if I do find equity as a state of fairness and impartiality, you believe in equity, don't you?
▶ 1:15:15Ms. Dhillon: Equity is a proxy for discrimination, unfortunately --
▶ 1:15:20Sen. Kennedy: I'm not talking about the proxy. If I define it as a state of fairness and impartiality.
▶ 1:15:28Ms. Dhillon: Those are very important virtues.
▶ 1:15:31Sen. Kennedy: I certainly agree with equity. And I watched you through your confirmation hearing. You strike me as an inclusive person, as opposed to exclusive. You seem to like people.
▶ 1:15:44Ms. Dhillon: I like to think so, sir.
▶ 1:15:46Sen. Kennedy: So you believe in diversity, equity, and inclusion, as most normal people understand those terms. But that's not what we are talking about here.
▶ 1:15:58Ms. Dhillon: No, it isn't.
▶ 1:16:00Sen. Kennedy: Diversity, equity, and inclusion is many institutions and people in america like to use it, talking about quotas, are today?
▶ 1:16:16Ms. Dhillon: Yes, unfortunately, quotas have become the proxy for that funded slogan.
▶ 1:16:22Sen. Kennedy: When someone says diversity, equity, and inclusion,s when talking about quotas.
▶ 1:16:28Ms. Dhillon: Quotas and discrimination.
▶ 1:16:31Sen. Kennedy: Let's just take race. You can discriminate on any number of things, and should discriminate on any of them, not on illegitimate characteristic. But let's just take race. Do you think race should be used to harm a person?
▶ 1:16:53Ms. Dhillon: It's illegal to use race either to affirmatively try to help or discriminate against --
▶ 1:17:01Sen. Kennedy: It's wrong to use race to harm someone.
▶ 1:17:04Ms. Dhillon: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:17:06Sen. Kennedy: It is wrong to harm somebody based on the race.
▶ 1:17:09Ms. Dhillon: It's illegal and un-american.
▶ 1:17:13Sen. Kennedy: It's legal to harm them appropriately because they are an a-hole, but not because of their race.
▶ 1:17:20Ms. Dhillon: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:17:22Sen. Kennedy: It is also wrong and illegal to help somebody because of their race.
▶ 1:17:26Ms. Dhillon: That is correct.
▶ 1:17:27Sen. Kennedy: That is illegal.
▶ 1:17:29Ms. Dhillon: Under our supreme court precedents and our laws, that is correct.
▶ 1:17:34Sen. Kennedy: We still have institution even after the supreme court's opinion -- we still have institutions in america, some in government, certainly some in the private sector -- I'm thinking of some of our universities -- who insist on implement quotas. And that's what you are going after.
▶ 1:17:52Ms. Dhillon: I'm aggressively seeking to end those quotas. They are illegal and un-american.
▶ 1:18:00Sen. Kennedy: Ok. And that's really what we are talking about. Quotas. And the american people don't support quotas. They just don't. I think most -- most americans don't think about race as much as people in washington, D.C., do.
▶ 1:18:23Sen. Kennedy: The american people, they understand that souls don't have a color. They believe that to a bear, all of us taste the same, like chicken. This obsession with diversity, equity, and inclusion, it's a pretty phrase, but is not diversity. Being against diversity is like being against golden retriever's.
▶ 1:18:54Sen. Kennedy: Who is against equity? Who is against inclusion? So they pretty it up, but they are talking about quotas, and it's illegal and it's a moral and it's un-american. And it exists. I'm watching it happen in our universities. Harvard -- I wish it weren't the case.
▶ 1:19:22Sen. Kennedy: Incredible university, really bright people, but it is clear they believe in diversity and equity and inclusion in the right to h-- and the right to hurt jewish people. Whatever we come to - what have we come to? And closing comments? I say to much.
▶ 1:19:41Ms. Dhillon: No, senator, I agree with you, and the whole of this government is dedicated to equal opportunity for all americans, and anti-semitism on our campuses is a shocking problem but we have made great progress in the last 100 days.
▶ 1:19:59Sen. Kennedy: General, don't let the bastards get you down.
▶ 1:20:04Chair Schmitt: Senator hawley.
▶ 1:20:06Sen. Hawley: I will yield to senator blackburn.
▶ 1:20:10Chair Schmitt: Senator blackburn .
▶ 1:20:14Sen. Blackburn: All right, senator holly, thank you. Doj and your important are doing such important work to root out anti-semitism, to root out dei. I think in that process you are doing an admirable job educating people on what has been going on in this country.
▶ 1:20:40Sen. Blackburn: I appreciate that in the way you have drawn attention to what is done on our nation's campuses and trying to divide people on racial and ideological lines. I appreciate what you have done there. I know president trump has said many times bringing this country together, uniting this country, is something that is very important to him.
▶ 1:21:11Sen. Blackburn: In tennessee we have got some great universities. They do wonderful research work. They do great work. They're doing all they can to be certain that we remain competitive on the global stage.
▶ 1:21:27Sen. Blackburn: While I appreciate the efforts that they are making to adhere with not only our state laws, but with the president's directives and his executive orders, and to root out these dei initiatives, they are still having to deal with the few woke activists that are within their ranks.
▶ 1:21:52Sen. Blackburn: Just today, yesterday and again this morning, there were videos released from three tennessee universities. And I have talked with two of those university presidents, and we have discussed the work that they are doing. But within the ranks, some of these professors that are so given to dei will not let it go.
▶ 1:22:22Sen. Blackburn: And so they take other programs and they are telling people, well, this is how we are getting to dei, this is how we are covering it up, this is how we are using language to form work arounds.
▶ 1:22:36Sen. Blackburn: And I think that one of the things -- this has shown me, looking at all this video footage the past couple of days, is how deeply rooted the left is in this dei effort, and how they are trying to manipulate today and to keep hold of that dei effort. They will not let it go.
▶ 1:23:08Sen. Blackburn: As you are working with these universities that say they are trying to comply, that are hiring outside auditors that c ome in, how do you work with them and help them root out these activists and change the way they, these activists, are trying to influence the students. What can you do there?
▶ 1:23:30Ms. Dhillon: Well, thank you, senator. The way we are starting with the first tier of universities we have requested data from is requesting data. We are beginning to receive thousands and thousands of pages and we have data crunchers in the doj who analyze the data, and we are relying on whistleblowers like the ones you just referenced in vanderbilt and the other schools engaging in this behavior, and they are helping us expose the defiance of federal law.
▶ 1:23:56Ms. Dhillon: It's very interesting, I've heard a lot of lofty phrases here. This is not unusual compared to what you saw in the brown v. Board of education era. A decree came down from the supreme court that separate but equal was illegal, and throughout the united states, particularly in the south where I grew up, we saw government officials openly defying those orders by rebranding and using different methods and it took decades to read that out.
▶ 1:24:23Ms. Dhillon: I hope it won't take decades to root this out, but we see similar defense like we saw with the dixiecrats at american institutions. I went to the university of virginia law school. They have done the same thing you are describing, rebranding, using this shell game to confuse the government.
▶ 1:24:43Ms. Dhillon: We are not confused, we will get to it, and the biggest hammer that is going to cause change is the united states' policy to stop wasting american taxpayer dollars and sending them to institutions that openly and blatantly violate federal law. And we are doing that throughout the government. I'm proud to be part of that effort. We are very vigilant and we will not rest until we've completely eliminated these discriminatory policies in these institutions of higher learning that receive federal funding.
▶ 1:25:10Sen. Blackburn: One thing I want to touch on -- I'm running out of time -- when I went through your confirmation, I talked to you about election integrity. I know you are doing some work on that. Mr. chairman, if she can respond briefly on election integrity issue.
▶ 1:25:26Ms. Dhillon: Senator, we at the civil rights division enforce the voting rights act, help america vote act, the national voter registration act. On each of these funds we are active, opening investigations, seeking information from states. Numerous states have received requests regarding list of maintenance requirements and failures thereof. Their noncompliance with the motor voter law.
▶ 1:25:51Ms. Dhillon: Reference has already been made in this hearing to discriminatory coalition districts that are out of compliance with the voting rights act. There is much more to come as we work our way through inquiries, facts,, petitions and so forth.
▶ 1:26:06Sen. Blackburn: Thank you, Mr. senator hawley.
▶ 1:26:10Sen. Hawley: Ms. dhillon, great to see you, you're doing a great job. I want to ask about discrimination of a somewhat different kind. That is discrimination on the basis of religion. In the last administration I'm sure you remember, the fbi issued a memorandum in which it attempted to recruit informants, spies into catholic parishes and probably, frankly, other christian churches on the basis of these churches' theology.
▶ 1:26:43Sen. Hawley: They created a list. United states government created a list of catholic parishes and groups he did not like, branded them as traditionalist catholics -- I guess that is now a slur -- and tried to recruit spies into these churches. Which is unbelievable to me. You talk about a violation of one's civil rights. To my knowledge that has never been formally withdrawn.
▶ 1:27:11Sen. Hawley: The attorney general of the united states at the time, merrick garland, set where you are sitting, first denied it, then attempted to defend it. It is totally indefensible. My question to you is what can be done about discrimination like this by our own governmental institutions?
▶ 1:27:27Sen. Hawley: I think one of the things people voted for in electing the current president, who I was proud to support, his they voted to put a stop -- is they voted to put a stop to that kind of disco nation, that kind of abuse -- discrimination, that kind of abuse by her own citizens of our own government. I submit to you that all the abuses of the biden era, and there were a lot, there is nothing lower than trying to recruit spies into churches to inform on your countrymen because, what, you don't like what is being preached from the pulpit?
▶ 1:27:58Sen. Hawley: This is insane stuff. They are using the fbi to do it. Can something be done about this to hold accountable the people within the doj, the fbi, who perpetrated what I frankly think our crimes? What can we do about this?
▶ 1:28:10Ms. Dhillon: Senator, first I want to assure you that the policy you described what appeared to be a dead letter today. We are not doing anything of that nature in the civil rights division, or to my knowledge, throughout the united states department of justice. To the contrary, and I have been a civil liberties lawyer in favor of religious liberties for decades, this is the Mr. mnuchin-friendly department -- this is the most religion-friendly department of justice in united states history.
▶ 1:28:41Ms. Dhillon: We assigned a case of a catholic coach who was fired for refusing to take the covid vaccine. Intervened in washington state to challenge that state's discrimination against catholic clergy enforcing and trying to pierce their priest penitent privilege. That law was enjoined this week by a federal judge in washington state.
▶ 1:29:03Ms. Dhillon: We have opened up in less than 100 days the religious land use and institutionalized persons act, not only for the christian community, but for jewish, muslim, buddhist, and other faiths as well. We have opened up investigations into anti-semitism throughout the united states. I've been told by jewish leaders who sat in my conference room that they have similar conversations with my predecessor, because this problem is not a new problem, unfortunately, it has been going on for years.
▶ 1:29:33Ms. Dhillon: And while my predecessor nodded and listened to the complaint, nothing happened. These are happening in his administration, and our door is open to people of all faiths to tell us what is happening, zoning violations, discrimination. If the government is spying on them, that would be outrageous, and I would be interested to know names and dates and we could begin an investigation into that, sir.
▶ 1:29:54Sen. Hawley: Thank you, that is exactly what we need to find out. We need names and dates, we need to know who authored that memo. Those people, their names need to be made public. They are still employed, god forbid, at the fbi, apartment of justice, they need to be fired. I think we need accountability, don't you? If you look at what is happened the last four years, you look at how religious rights were trampled upon. Let's not forget, during covid, who was shut down? The churches, the synagogues.
▶ 1:30:25Sen. Hawley: Who is open? Oh, well, the marijuana to oh, well, the marijuana dispensaries, they were open. Democrat party donors, they were open. But churches, closed. Synagogues, closed. To have our own fbi recruiting informants into our churches, it is outrageous. We need to know who wrote these memos, who approve them, where were they disputed. And I think people need to be fired for it, and if possible they need to be prosecuted for it.
▶ 1:30:57Sen. Hawley: Don't you think it is time for account ability? We have got to turn the page and do better, sure, but we have got a hold accountable the people who did this, or they will do it again.
▶ 1:31:05Ms. Dhillon: Senator, I agree with you for I was privileged to win between my law firm the right of christians to pray in the state of california. The governor is still the governor and there has been no accountability in that state park was violations of every person's right of faith.
▶ 1:31:30Ms. Dhillon: I have voters ultimately hold elected leaders accountable, but certainly people who grossly violated the first amendment, those are names I would like to know, and we will look into that as a result.
▶ 1:31:39Sen. Hawley: Mr. chairman, I thank you for holding this hearing. I think you are right about voters, and voters did vote for a change in november, they voted for cabability, and now we have got to give it to them. I want to send a clear message to everybody, there has got to be some accountability for what has happened with our government. There has got to be accountability for how it was abused.
▶ 1:32:05Sen. Hawley: Religious believers were abused in the last four years over and over and over. And we have talked about it and we have held hearings on it, and now it is time to do something about it. And the people who perpetrated these outrageous abuses of our first amendment rights, they need to be held accountable. They need to be held accountable, and they need to be held accountable as soon as possible. Thank you, Mr. chiari.
▶ 1:32:33Chair Schmitt: Thank you, Ms. dhillon, for your testimony. We wish you all the best for your important work.
▶ 1:32:40Ms. Dhillon: Thank you, senator.
▶ 1:32:44Chair Schmitt: Chair schmitt: we will swap the name plates have -- swap the nameplates and have Mr. hamilton and Mr. stewart sworn in.
▶ 1:34:22Chair Schmitt: Ok, thank you both for being here. I know you just sat down, but I will have you stand up. It is a tradition of this committee to swear in witnesses. Do you swear that the test and when you are about to give this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Thank you. Ok, we're going to introduce -- I'm going to introduce Mr. hamilton, and senator welch will introduce Mr. stewart.
▶ 1:34:50Chair Schmitt: Gene hamilton is the head of america first legal foundation, which he cofounded with stephen miller. He served as deputy white house counsel for the trump administration from january until june 2025. Before serving as deputy white house counsel, he was executive director and executive vice president and general counsel of america first legal before cofounding afl in 2021.
▶ 1:35:16Chair Schmitt: Gene served as counsel to the attorney general of the united states department of justice from 2017 to 2021, senior counsel to the secretary, and security, general counsel to senator jeff sessions on the committee of the judiciary, senior counsel at U.S.
▶ 1:35:34Chair Schmitt: Immigration and customs enforcement, and in the secretary honors program for the department of homeland security, which included work in the office of general counsel's operation and enforcement law division, the intelligence law division, customs and border protection, transportation security administration. A lot of expense. Gene graduated from washington and lee school of law magna cum laude, and has a bachelor of arts in international affairs from the university of georgia.
▶ 1:36:06Chair Schmitt: We'll have you -- you want to introduce -- and then we will have you give your opening statements.
▶ 1:36:09Sen. Welch: Ok, thank you
▶ 1:36:11Sen. Welch: Ok, thank y. Senator robert stewart was born in selma, alabama, where public service and social justice work instilled in a very young age. As a democratic member of the alabama state senate representing district money three, elected in november --district 23, elected in november 2022, he became the youngest senator in the alabama legislature. Congratulations.
▶ 1:36:37Sen. Welch: Professionally you serve as chief financial officer of footsoldier spark, a nonprofit dedicated to economic a moment, youth empowerment, and social justice based in selma, alabama, and a descendant of the historic community, his family legacy includes his maternal grandmother, who served as a nurse during the pivotal events of bloody sunday. Welcome, senator stewart.
▶ 1:37:00Chair Schmitt: Thank you, senator welch. Mr. hamilton first, and then senator stewart, give your opening statement.
▶ 1:37:10Mr. Hamilton: Thank you, chairman scmitt, ranking member welch, distinct members of the subcommittee on the constitution. Thank you for allowing me to testify about this critical issue. As president of america first legal, advancing meritocracy, upholding the rule of law, and protecting the civil rights of all americans, is an important priority for our organization,
▶ 1:37:41Mr. Hamilton: And I appreciated the opportunity to talk about our ongoing efforts defy discrimination in the united -- to fight discrimination in the united states of america. There's nothing righteous or even morally defensible about intentionally discriminating against american citizens, especially based on their race or their sex. What matters is whether a person is the best candidate for the job based on merit.
▶ 1:38:12Mr. Hamilton: Yet corporations, universities, k-12 schools, and other institutions that should know better have embraced intentional discrimination as though it were unquestionably their duty to do so. This was particularly true over the last four years under the biden administration.
▶ 1:38:32Mr. Hamilton: Let me be clear, it is never acceptable, it is never ok, for someone to hire, fire, promote, or take any employment action against an american citizen based on something like their skin color or sex. Balancing a workforce, for example, through race- or se x-based preferences is never ok.
▶ 1:39:02Mr. Hamilton: Every reserve slot for one group necessarily excludes others. Attempting to address purported disparities through the use of such blunt instruments ignores intervening political and social forces like mass immigration and the erosion of the nuclear family, and undermines the human dignity of every person subjected to such policies.
▶ 1:39:26Mr. Hamilton: Holding down one american under the purported premise of lifting up another is an important aggrandizement of bureaucratic power that threatens individual liberty and freedom at levels that would only be admired by committed socialists. No creation can sustain the harm inflicted by such divisive policies.
▶ 1:39:50Mr. Hamilton: They undermine and weaken our great institutions, dilute our shared american identity, turn americans against one another, and jeopardize the strength of the greatest country on earth. We are united by fairness, individual achievement, and equal opportunity, principles that have made us a beacon of hope and freedom and prosperity.
▶ 1:40:11Mr. Hamilton: But when government bureaucratss are empowered to pick winners and losers based on immutable characteristics, or when they encourage or conspire with iraq western private actors doing the same -- or acquiesce to private actors doing the same, fractures form in our great nation. Those fractures, which we see already, will ultimately grow and destroy our constitutional public if left unaddressed.
▶ 1:40:38Mr. Hamilton: Combating illegal dei is vital to maintain equal opportunity for every american and preserving a republic. Through our lawsuits and federal complaints, afl has delivered concrete victories that demonstrate the power of resolute action.
▶ 1:40:53Mr. Hamilton: Although congress has long outlawed discrimination via statutes like title vi, title vii, title ix, and also through using the actual equal protection clause of the constitution, many entities persist in advancing di persist in advancing dei in blatant disregard for the statute's plaintext and clear intent.
▶ 1:41:15Mr. Hamilton: Congress might explore further steps to bolster safeguards like the dismantle dei act but the primary emphasis should be on ensuring individuals and entities face consequences for discriminating against american citizens via robust oversight, agency prosecution, and backing of private initiatives like america first legal. I welcome your questions.
▶ 1:41:37Chair Schmitt: Thank you very much. Mr. stewart.
▶ 1:41:42Mr. Stewart: Chairman schmitt, ranking member welch, distinction was of the subcommittee, thank you -- distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. It is an honor and solemn responsibility to address this esteemed body during a time of great consequence for our nation and its ongoing commitment to equity, justice, and democracy.
▶ 1:42:10Mr. Stewart: My name is robert stewart, and I am a proud native and current resident of the historic selma, alabama. And I serve as the state senator for alabama's 23rd senate district, home to historic counties of dallas, wilcox, perry, monroe, butler, clark, and connecticut in the heart of the alabama black belt.
▶ 1:42:40Mr. Stewart: This testimony is rooted in the lived experiences of the people I represent. Descendants of enslaved americans. Veterans of the civil rights struggle. And rural families who have not yet realized the full promise of the democracy they helped forge. I begin by invoking words and legacy of president lyndon b.
▶ 1:43:06Mr. Stewart: Johnson, who declared a war on poverty during the height of the civil rights movement. Tragically, I come before you to declare that we have shifted from a war on poverty to a war on the poor.
▶ 1:43:25Mr. Stewart: In the alabama black belt, including lowndes county, where citizens was their lives to build a multiracial democracy camaro communities are still fighting for the basic rights that define human dignity and american citizenship.
▶ 1:43:46Mr. Stewart: These rights include clean water, functioning sewage, equitable education, livable wages, and the protection of civil liberties. Let us remember, it was the people of lowndes county, black farmers, teachers, and veterans, to advance the cause of american democracy by demanding not only the right to vote, but also protections against land theft,
▶ 1:44:17Mr. Stewart: Wage theft, state-sanctioned violence, and the right to self-determination. They understood that the ballot box alone could not uproot inequality without accompanying justice in housing, health, labor, and infrastructure. Today the same region suffers from conditions that would shock the conscience.
▶ 1:44:43Mr. Stewart: In 2017, a report by the united nations revealed the presence of hookworm, a disease long considered eradicated in the developed world. Due to failing wastewater infrastructure in lowndes county, families were exposed to raw sewage because the subject tanks had collapsed and outdated policies left them without solutions.
▶ 1:45:09Mr. Stewart: Thanks to the dedicated work of president joe biden, governor kay ivey, alabama department of environment and management, alabama department of public health, and the bipartisan efforts led by president trump during his first term, investments were finally made in wastewater infrastructure across rural america. Yes, we are grateful for president trump's efforts during his first term that led to the transformative progress.
▶ 1:45:39Mr. Stewart: I commend Ms. cher bradley and the black belt inc. Wastewater program, whose tireless efforts have connected hundreds of families to working sewage in record time. But this momentum will stall without restored federal support. Here is a quote from a lowndes county resident, who lauded the program.
▶ 1:46:08Mr. Stewart: "my children grew up using straight pipe. My grandchildren grew up using straight pipe. But my great grands are growing up with a working septic system, finally." we gather here to discuss civil rights and illegal discrimination. But let us not overlook the structural discrimination of neglect.
▶ 1:46:32Mr. Stewart: Dei initiatives are not preference or per they areks attempts to rectify generations of exclusion. Two redefine it is to misinterpret history and undermine justice. Thank you, and I welcome your questions.
▶ 1:46:56Chair Schmitt: Thank you, Mr. stewart, thank you for being here. Mr. hamilton, let me ask you, following up on the questions I asked Ms. dhillon after her testimony, that a lot of these discriminatory efforts, divisive efforts couched as dei, there is a lot more awareness of what that really is. Five years ago not so much. The flowery language cloaked the discriminatory aim. Where do you see this headed now?
▶ 1:47:27Chair Schmitt: There is still work to do there. She is doing the work and I think you will probably see more -- other causes of action from individuals probably pop up. Whether it is social, emotional learning, community, whatever the term might be, what do you see that is dei by another name?
▶ 1:47:50Mr. Hamilton: It's a really good question, because we have seen in some cases corporations,, universities other institutions take on an abandon exclusionary programs and policies. But in many other cases they seem to be deleting language or changing language and morphing two things to fly under the radar long enough that they will evade federal enforcement, or even private liability.
▶ 1:48:18Mr. Hamilton: What do I think is going to happen? I think I see with this department of justice, organizations like mine and others come a renewed awareness and commitment to education, litigation, everything in between, to make americans aware and corporate leaders, make the c-suite and university administrators aware that discriminating against american citizens, you can call it any name you want, any kind of
▶ 1:48:49Mr. Hamilton: Program, but any program that discriminates against an american citizen or reserve something for another citizen and provides a benefit, whether that is in terms of employment, in terms of education access, whether that is in terms of anything of the sort, that that is discriminatory and there is liability. There is actual liability that will attach to it.
▶ 1:49:11Mr. Hamilton: We are proud at america first legal to represent many individuals who have had successful resolutions of their claims of this time claims of this t type of discrimination, whether in the private context, whether in the public context, everywhere in between. What it is going to take is more attention, more spotlighting, just like you are doing with this particular hearing, to make the american people aware and educated everyone of what congress did -- title vi, title ix.
▶ 1:49:42Mr. Hamilton: If you return to the plaintext -- we are all textual lists these days -- there is no just commission prevented -- no discrimination permitted for an american citizen.
▶ 1:49:58Chair Schmitt: I want to touch on two topics that are related. For a lot of people, normal people that don't live in this radical racialization of america that many elites and those on the left have pushed, they don't understand where this comes from. Corporations hire people, they make money.
▶ 1:50:18Chair Schmitt: But this insidious corporate equality index that many of them chase that puts out as this carrot, you will get a great rating and it is funded partially by soros, all the groups chasing this client, inherent in that our these exclusive discriminatory policies to get a higher equity rating. It seems to me that probably what needs to happen is there need to be a couple massive lawsuits and a couple massive judgments against companies.
▶ 1:50:49Chair Schmitt: I'm not going to single out any particular target as an example, but there's a lot of them out there. You think that as a litigation strategy might be something that should be pursued?
▶ 1:51:00Mr. Hamilton: Yes is the short answer. The longer answer is that I think that will bear out over the next year or two years. There will be massive liabilities imposed on corporations that they were not expecting and that will change.
▶ 1:51:15Chair Schmitt: We talked a lot about university criteria and quotas. One of the things people don't understand -- I saw it in my time as attorney general of missouri -- school districts you wouldn't expect, springfield school district, springfield, missouri, had some of the most radical materials not only for kids, but part of the trainings. Crt is not a class.
▶ 1:51:42Chair Schmitt: The fact is if you teach and train every administrator and teacher to view the race and separate the room by oppressor and oppressed, that it becomes part of the entire curriculum. Where do you see that coming from? How does it get from the think tanks in washington, D.C., to sprinkle, missouri? How does that happen?
▶ 1:52:01Mr. Hamilton: Well, what happens based on the records we have edified, is the consulting industry -- there is this ecosphere with the consulting industry and ngos come and they just to this knowledge across the entire country.
▶ 1:52:22Mr. Hamilton: For example, we uncovered one of the first things our organization did in 2021 or 2022, we uncovered records from the school district in pennsylvania that showed that crt was being used in a school district. They were teaching crt, and they had a little diagram and funneled everything.
▶ 1:52:40Mr. Hamilton: At the time when everyone was saying this is just a fib or the right, something that doesn't exist, there is a monetary driver that is creating this, that had been spreading this across the country. I think that over time, whether we look at antitrust enforcement, other private and civil liability, there is other things that are going to weaken the ability to perpetuate the spread of this type of information.
▶ 1:53:06Chair Schmitt: It's the head of the snake, the oppression matrix, grade school kids being forced to walk and privilege walks, is totally insane senator welch.
▶ 1:53:17Sen. Welch: Mr. stewart, welcome. My understanding is there was a settlement that was a result of efforts by the civil rights division in the attorney general's office to address a septic problem in york county. -- oyour county.
▶ 1:53:37Sen. Welch: And that was a result of there being incredibly poor soil, and years of, as you were describing, folks having straight pipe sewage, and they were prosecuted and fined and starting to be held in criminal contempt even though there was no capacity for them to address the issue.
▶ 1:53:56Sen. Welch: And the newest just testified -- the new assistant attorney general just testified, they got out of that settlement because they said it was the product of illegal dei. Can you comment on how the justice department was hopeful to, the civil rights division? Mr.
▶ 1:54:17Sen. Welch: Chairman, I want to acknowledge that there are many folks who used to be with the civil rights division who are here today and I want to express to you the incredible gratitude for the commitment you made, and I think it is outrageous that the ranks including you have been decimated in the department. Mr. stewart.
▶ 1:54:33Mr. Stewart: I just want to add that it is not radical for all american citizens to have access to working sewage, clean air, clean land, and the epa was founded by residential -- president richard nixon. This is a nonpartisan effort.
▶ 1:54:55Mr. Stewart: And so the federal investment granted by the epa was transformative to lowndes county, and not just lowndes county, but many counties throughout the black belt as well as appalachia, for them to address the failing septic systems. Just want to just highlight the black belt unincorporated wastewater program.
▶ 1:55:23Mr. Stewart: They really help citizens exu self thede--they really help citizens exude self-determination. It had implications on the workforce. We were finally able to -- the federal government was finally able to provide a remedy for these rural americans who were long forgot about.
▶ 1:55:52Mr. Stewart: Also, the citizens have some skin in the game because they pay $20 to maintain the septic systems come once they receive those upgrades. There have been nearly 100 homes that we have made record progress.
▶ 1:56:08Sen. Welch: So that civil rights department agreement was dismissed when the new assistant attorney general came into a 30, correct --came into authority, correct?
▶ 1:56:24Mr. Stewart: Precisely.
▶ 1:56:26Sen. Welch: And that part of the infrastructure bill was taken away. That was a presidential action . Is that interview -- was this something that was done for improper dei, to provide a remedy to the folks you represent?
▶ 1:56:44Mr. Stewart: Yes, and I just want to reiterate that all citizens have this right, and I think that it's unfair that the constituents are continued to be left behind when they were making this progress under several presidential administrations. In 2018, we had unprecedented investment under the form active 2018, under president trump.
▶ 1:57:10Mr. Stewart: We saw investment in failing wastewater systems across rural america. We need to continue those strides to ensure that no americans are left behind.
▶ 1:57:23Sen. Welch: Thank you very much. Mr. hamilton, we had some seeming difficulty getting documents from the department of justice about the change in policies with respect to the civil rights division. We now have those, but not through the cooperation of the department. You as the head of america first legal, I think you have sued the federal government for failing to provide documents you requested, correct?
▶ 1:57:48Mr. Hamilton: Many times.
▶ 1:57:51Sen. Welch: And in fact, is it fair to say that you agree with us that the federal government should be transparent and turn over information that's relevant to the public?
▶ 1:58:03Mr. Hamilton: I mean, depending on the context. Certainly there is a difference between what congress passed in foia in terms of the public access to the government information and then interbranch accommodations between article one and article ii, depending on information at issue.
▶ 1:58:19Sen. Welch: And what was at issue here was the change in policies that affected the various divisions within the civil rights division, and how there was an explicit change of policy. By the way, one of the points that Ms. dhillon made was that the civil rights division should be zealous and faithful in pursuit of the priorities of the president.
▶ 1:58:44Sen. Welch: What I heard in your testimony is that the law is what it is that should be pursued zealously, not the preference of any individual president. Is that correct?
▶ 1:58:54Mr. Hamilton: The president is the head of article ii, under article ii, section one, all executive power is vested in the president. Everyone has to set priorities, everyone has limited time in the day in terms of what things to get at --
▶ 1:59:10Sen. Welch: No, I get that.
▶ 1:59:11Mr. Hamilton: The department of justice civil rights division -- believe me, I'm very synthetic, sympathetic to rural communities getting missed and overlooked. That speaks deeply to my heart. The civil rights division of the department of justice doesn't need to be involved with septic tanks. That is not a civil rights issue.
▶ 1:59:36Mr. Hamilton: There is no use of the civil rights laws -- the notion that septic tanks and sewer lines are somehow racist is crazy. It's absolutely ludicrous. But there are solutions that congress can employ.
▶ 1:59:48Sen. Welch: Let me just suggest that if the denial of access to remedies is based on race, that is a civil rights issue. I'm finished my time.
▶ 2:00:01Chair Schmitt: Senator lee.
▶ 2:00:04Sen. Lee: Mr. hamilton, you have spoken about dei practices in health care. How is the biden administration engage referencing in this area accurately according to some, referencing organ donations, dis preference others on the basis of race?
▶ 2:00:26Mr. Hamilton: Yeah, absolutely. It was kind of nuts when you sit down and think about it. The biden administration, biden hhs promulgated a rule, I think finalized in december of last year. The rule this new system, this pricing incentive system they created took effect a couple weeks ago.
▶ 2:00:50Mr. Hamilton: What the system does is it creates incentive payments for medical systems to achieve equitable outcome, which means -- if you read through all the your credit --bureaucratese, read through the complicated and technical language, what you will see something they have been trying to push for a long time, which is equity in things even like organ transplant, kidney transplants, that we are going to instead -- instead of pursuing what is in the best interest of a patient at a
▶ 2:01:22Mr. Hamilton: Moment in time and trying to help everybody, that we are going to prioritize things based on equity when it comes to things like organ transplants. It's crazy.
▶ 2:01:31Sen. Lee: The term "equity" is -- senator kennedy was alluding to earlier -- can be perceived if any by different people. If one were to use the term "fairness," most people wouldn't disagree with the notion that scarce resources need to be dealt with in a fair manner. Laws make certain kinds of decisions unlawful, including when they are based on race.
▶ 2:01:58Sen. Lee: On that note, can you provide some examples of how big business may have used dei practices in order to terminate workers on the basis of criteria that would otherwise have been prohibited under title vii of the civil rights act? Our employment laws typically prohibit an employer from discriminated against an employee under the basis of his or her sex, race, or age.
▶ 2:02:29Sen. Lee: Age in many circumstances his as little different with each category. Are you aware of dei being used as a pretext, as a cudgel, as a a by which to engage in otherwise prohibited practices? Sometimes the trifecta of race, sex, and age.
▶ 2:02:49Mr. Hamilton: Absolutely. Senator lee, there are so many clients that come to us, active losses that we represent clients in that I will not get into the merits of before this body, or we have evidence of corporations blatantly, blatantly, whether they just tell the person you are not of the right type, you don't have the right skin color, other it was for promotion -- whether it was for promotion or getting in the door of a business, having people tell people that, you don't fit the
▶ 2:03:21Mr. Hamilton: Profile we are looking for, or creating a recruiting pipeline that is only accessible to people of certain backgrounds come when you only make something accessible to people of certain backgrounds, you are excluding everyone else. It is the most common sense thing in the world.
▶ 2:03:38Mr. Hamilton: Yet corporate america and the c suites got bewitched, bewildered by the hr recruiting class who came in, all these consultants, and convinced them that somehow equity and somehow all these special preferences was good for their bottom line, and it wasn't. It's nonsense, and beyond not being good for the bottom line, it is blatantly illegal.
▶ 2:04:01Sen. Lee: Does title vii contain a carveout for the word "equity," or however one wants to define equity?
▶ 2:04:11Mr. Hamilton: It does not.
▶ 2:04:13Sen. Lee: Does it contain a carveout for someone having benevolent objectives in mind at the time the engage in disco nation on the basis of race?
▶ 2:04:20Mr. Hamilton: Absolutely not.
▶ 2:04:23Sen. Lee: No matter what the subjective motivation of the asserted virtue when it comes to an employment decision subject to title vii of the civil rights act of 1964, does it?
▶ 2:04:35Mr. Hamilton: You are correct.
▶ 2:04:37Sen. Lee: Anymore so that it made a difference in the defendants in brown v. Board of education, when the litigants, the lawyers said with a straight face before the highest court of the land just across the street from us, yes, we are engaging in not just effective, but-- de facto, but de jure discrimination,, yes we are segregating people on the basis of the skin color, but it is ok because our intentions are benevolent and not malicious.
▶ 2:05:08Sen. Lee: Is there any distinction you can draw between that kind of justification, which was soundly and wisely rejected in brown v. Board of education, which was a constitutional, not a statutory theory -- is there any difference between that type of attended justification and what we see here, other than the fact is one is statutory and the other is constitutional?
▶ 2:05:28Mr. Hamilton: I don't see any at all. Benevolent intentions or even malicious intentions led to the abhorrent doctrine of separate but equal that the supreme court rightly overturned in brown v. Board.
▶ 2:05:46Mr. Hamilton: Anytime you have visuals forming in society like the united states where your people from all over the world who come here to live together, anytime you have things where people are trying to create these fractures in the american populace, even if it is benevolent intentions were not, we have to treat all american citizens the same regardless, because that is what congress said, and that is what the constitution guarantees.
▶ 2:06:09Sen. Lee: As associate justice john marshall harlan noted in his classic dissent in plessy v ferguson., speaking against the outrage of the separate but equal doctrine, the constitution requires that we not make decisions on the basis of someone's race. Thank you.
▶ 2:06:30Chair Schmitt: Senator hirono.
▶ 2:06:32Sen. Hirono: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Diversity is america's greatest strength, and as my republican colleagues continue to demonize and otherize anyone who does not look like them, hate crimes continue to rise. Data shows that hate incidents are at their highest point since 2020, when the senate passed my covid-19 hate crimes bill.
▶ 2:07:01Sen. Hirono: The constitution mandates equal protection of the laws for everyone, full stop. It does not bar diversity, equity, and inclusion. Programming related to diversity is not illegal just because donald trump says so.
▶ 2:07:20Sen. Hirono: That is why I have introduced a pro diversity resolution, joined by all of my democratic judiciary committee colleagues, reaffirming our commitment to the fundamental values of diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. I am proud to be from estate that is home-- a state that is home to the nation's largest share of multiracial americans in hawaii.
▶ 2:07:49Sen. Hirono: We don't fear diversity, we embrace it. It is what brings us together. That is why I find it so confounding that my republican colleagues are so fearful of diversity. My republican colleagues are intent on teaching young people that people different from them are to be feared, mistrusted, and treated with suspicion. How does that bring us together?
▶ 2:08:19Sen. Hirono: I've heard republicans say that diversity undermines national unity. I would like to remind us all that almost everyone at this table is descended from immigrants. The continental U.S.
▶ 2:08:36Sen. Hirono: Was created by europeans who migrated to this place and founded a nation, pretending that there were not millions of people who already live here before columbus so-called discovered america.
▶ 2:08:57Sen. Hirono: This country was built by the work of slaves dragged here against their will from a continent they would never see again. So we have always struggled with racism and exclusion in our country, and yet we have worked to keep the country united by encouraging,, and yes sometimes forcing inclusion.
▶ 2:09:28Sen. Hirono: And before president trump for six decades presidents of both major political parties supported diversity initiatives to strengthen the workforce, expand opportunity, and ensure everyone has a fair shot at achieving the american dream.
▶ 2:09:47Sen. Hirono: And president reagan's farewell address, he spoke of america as "a shining city upon a hill," and said it was a city, once again quoting president reagan, "teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace.
▶ 2:10:09Sen. Hirono: And if there has to be city walls, the walls had doors, and the doors are open to anyone with the will and the hard to get here.-- heart to get here." diversity does not undermine american unity. It is what creates it. Diversity is our strength. Unity is our superpowerful unity is our superpowerf I have one yes or no question for Mr. hamilton.
▶ 2:10:36Sen. Hirono: I know you are involved in dei cases, but has any court opined that dei is unconstitutional? Yes or no?
▶ 2:10:45Mr. Hamilton: Yes.
▶ 2:10:47Sen. Hirono: Which court. Mr. hamilton united states supreme court.
▶ 2:10:51Sen. Hirono: I disagree with you , because you are talking about the harvard case. And if you are using that case for the proposition that the united states supreme court deemed diversity goal as being unconstitutional, you are very wrong.
▶ 2:11:05Mr. Hamilton: I don't think the supreme court said anything about diversity.
▶ 2:11:10Sen. Hirono: Ok, so you do admit that -- I'm asking the question, sir. The goal of diversity is not unconstitutional.
▶ 2:11:21Mr. Hamilton: We are talking about discrimination and the supreme court has condemned discrimination against american citizens. All these universities cannot discriminate against american citizens --
▶ 2:11:31Sen. Hirono: I'm not here to give you a forum to spew your anti-diversity rhetoric, ok? You are in court right now, and I would say that no court including the supreme court has not said that seeking diversity is unconstitutional. It is not. Ok, well, I'm out of time. You can see that we are very divergent group of people here.
▶ 2:12:01Chair Schmitt: Intellectually diverse.
▶ 2:12:04Sen. Hirono: On the basis of the suspicion supposedly of people who are dei, that would mean you suspect me of something, I cannot be trusted.
▶ 2:12:13Chair Schmitt: Hopefully you are not talking about me, because that is a particular accusation. Sen. hir good -- that is a ridiculous accusation.
▶ 2:12:21Sen. Hirono: Ok,, good I wish everybody would say the same thing --
▶ 2:12:26Chair Schmitt: Your time has expired. I want to thank you witnesses. Written questions may be submitted until july 30 at 5:00 p.m. The hearing is adjourned. Thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]