▶ 0:17:44>> the committee will come to order. Good morning and welcome. I want to let my colleagues know how we will proceed today. Senator heinrich and his staff are working with us on today's hearing, getting it set up. Thanks to all of the senators for your participation. Today is the committee's ninth hearing on nominations for the current administration.
▶ 0:18:12We will hear from two nominees, two people who have been nominated to serve on the federal energy regulatory commission. I thank president trump for sending both companies over. The commission is what is known as an independent agency. It plays a critical role in america's energy dominance.
▶ 0:18:38As the supreme court exchange, ferc's is to encourage the development of supplies of electricity and natural gas at reasonable prices. Ferc accomplices this mission by ensuring the reliable interstate transmission of electricity and natural gas and oil.
▶ 0:19:00Ferc regulates power prices and also protects the reliability and security for the bulk power system that enables those to provide affordable reliable energy to millions. We will meet those nominees and invite each of them to give an opening statement and introduce family and friends.
▶ 0:19:32Our first nominee is laura swett. Ms. swett currently works as an energy and litigation counsel at a law firm where her principal area of practice is federal energy litigation. She represents pipelines and other regulated entities and previously served as senior legal and policy advisor to then ferc chairman kevin mcintyre.
▶ 0:19:59Before that she was a lawyer in the office of enforcement where she led and supported investigations. Secondly we will hear from david lacerte who recently returned to his position of special counsel at his law firm where he is focused on energy litigation and environmental safety and incident response. Earlier this year he served as principal adviser to the rector of the U.S. office of personnel management and he also served in the trump administration the first go around.
▶ 0:20:31He continues to serve there is an unpaid special government employee. Mr. lessard previously set -- Mr. lacerte served as responder to chemical incidents nationwide. He also served in several key leadership roles in the louisiana state government as well as secretary of louisiana department of veterans affairs. A combat veteran of the united states marine corps, Mr. lessard -- Mr.
▶ 0:21:01Lacerte served in the marine corps. The federal energy regulatory commission holds enormous influence over america's ability to power its homes and fuel its industries and thereby indirectly strengthening american national security.
▶ 0:21:27When it functions well family see affordable bills, communities see investment, businesses are more able to grow. When it fails the consequences are felt in every corner of the country in every economic way imaginable. Under the biden administration ferc was too often steered in a direction that was harmful and that harmed hard-working americans. Costs rose.
▶ 0:21:57>> affordable energy is clean energy. No project 2025 ferc. Affordable energy is clean energy. No project 2025 ferc.
▶ 0:22:25Chair Lee: Infrastructure projects slumbered -- in limbo. The record left the nation more vulnerable to energy scarcity and more dependent on foreign suppliers. The test before today's nominees is to reverse that course. If confirmed Ms. swett and Mr.
▶ 0:22:51Chair Lee: Lacerte will be charged with seeing the law is applied as written and not as imagined by regulators. They will need to implement the policies put in place by the previous administration and rollback those that drove up costs.
▶ 0:23:09Chair Lee: Both nominees will bring with them valuable experience that can serve well as swett spent years working at ferc giving her an understanding of how the agency operates and Mr. lacerte has held leadership roles at state and federal levels given the perspective of a cup of combat veteran who has led under great -- bringing the perspective of a combat veteran who has led under great pressure.
▶ 0:23:40Chair Lee: The stakes in this cannot be higher. Americans deserve a commission that take seriously and sticks to this focus on a mission to encourage the development of plentiful supplies of electricity and natural gas. That mission determines whether families can afford their home. Can heat their homes in the winter, whether our military bases will have the power they need to operate and whether our economy will have a foundation for sustained growth.
▶ 0:24:11Chair Lee: This hearing brings an opportunity for both nominees to make clear how they will approach these responsibilities. We need to know how they view the ongoing legal commitment about the status of independent agencies and what that means to the accountability to the law and american people.
▶ 0:24:28Chair Lee: What they see is ferc's most important statutory responsibility and what their top priority might be in overseeing the natural gas and energy sectors giving those sectors central importance to the U.S. economy especially now. This committee has a responsibility to hold nominees to that standard. Ferc is too important to american life to be distracted from its core mission.
▶ 0:24:57Chair Lee: It must focus squarely on the law and the needs of the american people. I thank both nominees for being here today and their willingness to serve. I look forward to a candid conversation about how they take on this responsibility at such a critical moment for our nation's energy future. I will now turn to ranking member senator heinrich for his opening statement.
▶ 0:25:16Sen. Heinrich: Thank you chairman and welcome to Ms. swett and Mr. lacerte. Most of the offices do not have statutory required qualifications.
▶ 0:25:35Sen. Heinrich: The federal energy regulatory commission is an exception great it requires members of the commission the individuals who buy demonstrated ability background, training, or experience are especially qualified to assess fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected by federal energy policy. The reason for this distinction is simple. Much of the commission's work is quasijudicial.
▶ 0:26:02Sen. Heinrich: Like our courts, ferc must be impartial and nonpartisan. Office and bureau heads and secretaries and assistant secretaries may take their lead from their secretaries. And their secretaries from their president. Commission members do not.
▶ 0:26:22Sen. Heinrich: The commission was established as an independent regulatory commission whose members serve fixed terms not at the pleasure of the president and their performance of the commission's functions is not subject to the supervision or direction of the administration. The commission was designed to serve no president and no political agenda.
▶ 0:26:45Sen. Heinrich: It's job is to serve the public interest fairly and impartially, guided by our laws and the constitution, not by political whims in the white house. The independence of our independent public institutions from the federal reserve to the smithsonian institution is under attack by this administration.
▶ 0:27:04Sen. Heinrich: This during the independence of the federal energy commission would do irreparable damage to public confidence in the positions decision-making, to regulatory stability, and our energy security. Consequently our job is not only to understand Ms. swett's and Mr.
▶ 0:27:24Sen. Heinrich: Lacerte's ability to assess fairly the concerns affected by energy policy but also to assess their commitment to ferc's independence.
▶ 0:27:39Chair Lee: Thank you. We will now turn to our colleague from louisiana, senator cassidy to introduce david lacerte.
▶ 0:27:52Sen. Cassidy: Before I begin I will introduce a letter from my governor supporting Mr. lacerte 's nomination.
▶ 0:27:59Chair Lee: That will be admitted to the record.
▶ 0:28:02Sen. Britt: -- Sen. cassidy: I had the privilege of introducing david as a nominee for the federal energy commissioner. He is an attorney, a true conservative, emily's husband and father to four kids who are truants today, not going to school. They are all behind him.
▶ 0:28:28Sen. Britt: He attended law school at lsu before going on to become a highly successful attorney working in energy litigation. He served in new orleans before serving as a special counsel advising clients in the energy sector on some of the most complex challenges affecting the energy industry today. After rising through the ranks of the louisiana department of veterans affairs he is appointed to serve at various federal positions including white house liaison and senior advisor to the rector of the U.S.
▶ 0:28:58Sen. Britt: Office of personal management where he continues to offer counsel. Prior to that he served at the chemical safety board where he oversaw the agency's response to major chemical nationwide. David's first-hand exposure to louisiana's energy economy, which is based firmly upon petrochemical combined with his legal and regulatory experience
▶ 0:29:29Sen. Britt: Gives him an intuitive understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing the industry. David knows liquefied natural gas like louisiana knows liquefied natural gas and he understands how to move projects forward while protecting workers , taxpayers, and the environment. He knows what is at stake and how to get results. President trump is unleashing american energy. David lacerte can help them do so.
▶ 0:29:59Sen. Britt: Thank you for once more answering the call to the american people and thank you to your family for supporting you as they do. With that I guilt. -- with that I yield.
▶ 0:30:10Chair Lee: The rules require all the nominees be sworn in in connection with their testimony. If you would both stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Thank you. The record will reflect both nominees answered in the affirmative.
▶ 0:30:37Chair Lee: Before you begin your opening statements I will ask the nominees three questions that we post to all of the nominees that come before this committee. You can signify by saying yes or no. You do not have to stand. Will you be available to appear before this committee and other congressional committees to represent the commission's positions and respond to issues and concerns of congress?
▶ 0:31:03Chair Lee: Are you aware of any personal holdings or investments that would constitute a conflict of interest or create the appearance of such conflict should you be confirmed? And third, are you involved in or do you have any assets in a blind trust?
▶ 0:31:23Chair Lee: The record will reflect that both witnesses answered in affirmative to the first question and negative to the second questions and those are the correct answers, you both scored 100%. As I turned to the witnesses I will invite you each to introduce any friends or family members here with them today. Ms. swett we will start with you and proceed to Mr. lacerte after that. Go ahead.
▶ 0:31:55Chair Lee: Make sure your button is on.
▶ 0:31:57Ms. Swett: Good morning, chairman lee, ranking member heinrich, and distinguished members. Thank you, senator, appreciate it. Good morning chairman lee ranking member heinrich, distinguished members of the community. I am grateful to appear before you today and for you considering my nomination to be commissioner at the federal energy regulatory commission.
▶ 0:32:25Ms. Swett: I am deeply honored the president nominated me for this role and I'm grateful to the members of the committee who graciously met with me before today. I would not be here without the support of many incredible people, including those who are behind me.
▶ 0:32:41Ms. Swett: My mother and father jackie and charles sweat, my father -- jackie and charles swett, my husband john who is the father to our two children and my sister who happens to be one of the dedicated federal servants who works at ferc and incredible mentors who have given me opportunity and unwavering guidance. My grandmother lived destitute in the mekong river delta of vietnam.
▶ 0:33:13Ms. Swett: My mother escaped the violent oppression of communism and fled to the safety of our great country. Her family arrived here in 1974 with nothing. My father grew up in a low income new york city housing project in the 1950's. He dedicated four years to serving the people of this country as a civilian at the pentagon but not before he was a tsa agent at jfk airport in the 1970's if you can imagine.
▶ 0:33:41Ms. Swett: His dedication to the united states inspired me to enter civil service myself. I served two stints at law school and as a young lawyer in the office of enforcement and as advisor to a former chairman and commissioner. My parents both plot tooth and nail for every opportunity they ever had. They raised me and my sister with the hope of a better life but with a profound love of america.
▶ 0:34:08Ms. Swett: That I am before you today is a realization of the american dream, for them and the generations of ancestors behind them and the sacrifices all of them made to get me here today. Given this background I am eternally grateful for your time and consideration. My passion for energy again when I was about five years old. Shortly after my parents bought a standalone house they generously begin to shelter other vietnamese refugees who sought the promise of a better life in america.
▶ 0:34:39Ms. Swett: At that point all I had known of vietnam was pictures of a war-torn country and villagers and rice patties. From those refugees first evenings in U.S. soil I turn on all of the lights, the tv, and bought all of my roaring electronic toys. At their great delight I believed in my five-year-old heart that I performed magic for them at my command of power. I treasured electricity from that point on.
▶ 0:35:09Ms. Swett: From that tender age and reinforced by my mother throughout adulthood I've appreciated deep in my bones how lucky we are in this country to have reliable energy and everything that enables. How lucky we are to power our hospitals and schools, to air condition our houses and even have hot showers. I think about that every day.
▶ 0:35:29Ms. Swett: This is why ferc's mission has been my work for the last 15 years and will continue to be through the rest of my life in whatever form that comes. Sitting before you is the pinnacle of my career, particularly after working for years myself as a ferc civil servant.
▶ 0:35:49Ms. Swett: The role of each commissioner is not only to vote on specific orders but it is as a steward of this country's economic present and future and an advocate for the hundreds of millions of americans impacted by ferc jurisdiction.
▶ 0:36:03Ms. Swett: If I have the honor of being confirmed I will do everything in my power to honor the law and effects of every single matter before me squarely within the confines of the laws that you congress granted ferc and within these confines I would prioritize three goals for our country. Our country is at a historic crossroads and these goals are more important than ever. We must keep the lights on and the pipelines that are the pillars of our economy flowing at just and reasonable rates.
▶ 0:36:36Ms. Swett: We must preserve national and economic security by doing everything within ferc's power to buttress the ai revolution and facilitate the collection of large load and data centers so data centers are not forced to build in other countries making every american vulnerable to foreign adversaries. We must maximize ferc's ability to encourage infrastructure development.
▶ 0:37:02Ms. Swett: This development has faced crippling regulatory uncertainty over the recent past and its increase is critical to reliability, safety, and our economy. After working alongside the mission driven hard-working men and women of ferc and representing electrical utilities and oil and gas pipelines I know energy is not the magic I believed it to be when I was young.
▶ 0:37:24Ms. Swett: Now I know that energy flows day in and day out from the dedication and toil of thousands of men and women across america and in ferc itself. Those men and women keep the lights on and are the reasons our planes fly, our trains run, and we enjoyed many modern comforts. I appreciate the honor bestowed on me of being in front of you today and thank you so much for your time and consideration.
▶ 0:37:53Chair Lee: Thank you so much. Mr. lacerte, you may begin.
▶ 0:37:59Mr. Lacerte: Thank you. I'm especially thankful for the kind words from senator cassidy and I would like to thank him for his distinguished service as a champion for the people of louisiana. It is an honor to appear before you today. I come before you as president trump's nominee for commissioner of the federal energy regulatory commission. I would like to acknowledge some of the poor figures in my life.
▶ 0:38:26Mr. Lacerte: -- some of the core figures in my life. I would like to acknowledge my wife emily. She forever inspires me with her kindness and wisdom in her passion for life. She encourages me to continue my public service. I would not be here today without her positive influence. I want to thank my children and stepchildren who are with me today.
▶ 0:38:53Mr. Lacerte: Special recognition goes to their schools who have prepared my children with just the right amount of catholic mass to prepare them today. Every day I fought to make america a better place to live, work, raise a family, and prosper. We do this not only for my children but everyone's children and the generations to come. I want to acknowledge the burden carried by the families of our public servants.
▶ 0:39:22Mr. Lacerte: These burdens are profound and the patience and grace given to me by my children carries me through the demanding days of life as an appointee. Thanks to my parents were watching at home who raised me come up until today, they handed me off to uncle sam. Thanks to those who fought alongside me in the united states marine corps. The marine corps has made me into the man that stands before you today.
▶ 0:39:48Mr. Lacerte: Thank you to those currently serving and to those who gave their last full measure of devotion to their country and never made it home. You are a guiding light in my life and it is an honor to carry that legacy. I have been a public servant for most of my career and I have sworn an oath to the constitution on many occasions. I let infantry marines in the invasion of afghanistan. I have led state and federal agencies including an independent agency under the trump and biden administrations. I've practiced law one of the oldest law firms in the country.
▶ 0:40:22Mr. Lacerte: These experiences have afforded me an understanding of the intersection of government and industry that has left me well prepared for the role for which I am considered today. Today ferc is at a historic crossroads. The demand for energy is growing and the infrastructure that has well this country to thrive needs continued improvement. The challenge of increasing the reliability and resiliency of our grid while protecting our ratepayers has never been a more important balance. It is a foundation built brick by brick and decision by decision.
▶ 0:40:53Mr. Lacerte: Artificial intelligence and data centers and industrialization present a compounding of the issues which require diligent planning, forecasting, and regulatory oversight for the states as well as ferc. This is a challenge that must be met and cannot be delayed. The administrative burden placed on those who seek to invest in our infrastructure is staggering .
▶ 0:41:15Mr. Lacerte: Delays and federal reviews make energy less reliable and more expensive, reducing processing time and the administrative burden will speed processes along, allowing the process is be passed ratepayers. I believe my background as a government executive in my experience as an environmental attorney provide fresh perspectives on these issues. The outstanding career staff at ferc cannot do this alone.
▶ 0:41:39Mr. Lacerte: Ferc's most functional with a fully seeded board of commissioners could -- board of commissioners prepared to work together. Chairman lee, ranking member heinrich, I appreciate the opportunity to be here before you and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:41:56Chair Lee: Thanks so much to both of you. We will now start five-minute rounds of questions alternating between republicans and democrats come I will go first, then senator heinrich and then alternating between republicans and democrats in order of seniority. Let's start with you.
▶ 0:42:18Chair Lee: One might observe you've not had direct experience at the federal energy regulatory commission but you bring to the table a wealth of personal and professional experience to the role. Tell me how your background has prepared you well to serve as a ferc commissioner and how your perspective can benefit the commission's work on behalf of the american people?
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Lacerte: Thank you for that question. I have worked at an independent agency before that is bipartisan in nature with republicans and democrats. I practiced as an attorney at an energy law firm. The most important qualification I have is I can bring your commonsense approach to get problem solved and get things done. I have proven that to the president of the united states. I have an outstanding set of experiences in safety, in cyber come in a multitude of issues that help ferc.
▶ 0:43:13Mr. Lacerte: I think we can bring a commonsense approach to work together with fellow commissioners to have a return to the baseline statutes making energy more reliable.
▶ 0:43:21Chair Lee: I will ask both of you this next question. There is currently litigation moving through the federal courts challenging the results in a case called humphrey's executor that addressed this question of the president's authority to remove a member of a so-called independent agency, remove somebody in one of those positions from office before the end of a statutorily defined
▶ 0:43:53Chair Lee: Term. We will start with you and then go to Ms. swett. What is your view on this issue and how might that impact your performance or your perspective as a commissioner should you be confirmed?
▶ 0:44:03Mr. Lacerte: I am aware of the trend in cases. We will always follow the law if I am confirmed. I personally welcome a modification on humphrey's executor if the supreme court rules that direction we will follow the law. Every day I get to serve the american people is a gift.
▶ 0:44:24Mr. Lacerte: I appreciate that every day and I give my best effort 100% until my service is no longer needed until the good lord calls me home and I will continue to do that if confirmed.
▶ 0:44:35Chair Lee: Ms. swett?
▶ 0:44:38Ms. Swett: I share my potential colleagues views that it would be a true honor to be confirmed to serve on the federal energy regulatory commission and I will follow the law and honor the law in everything I do and consider the merits of every single issue , the law, and the facts before me irrespective of where the litigation comes out and the length of my term.
▶ 0:45:02Chair Lee: Ms. swett, what would be your top priority as a commissioner while regulating natural gas and energy sectors? Energy commodities subject to ferc's jurisdiction represent between 3% and 6% of U.S. gpd -- of U.S.
▶ 0:45:25Chair Lee: Gdp and those inputs end up having a multiplier effect in the economy. What would be your top priority of confirmed as a commissioner on regulating natural gas and electricity?
▶ 0:45:41Ms. Swett: I agree with you. Ferc's mission is more important than ever given its impact on the economy and the unprecedented historic low growth in demand and also resource adequacy issues facing our country.
▶ 0:45:58Ms. Swett: If I have the honor of being confirmed I will go back to the statute congress has authorized and that is encouraging the orderly development of plentiful supplies of electricity and natural gas at reasonable prices for american consumers and hand with that is ferc's mission of ensuring the lights are on. We have to ensure our grid is stable and all americans have access to electricity.
▶ 0:46:22Chair Lee: Very consistent with ferc's mandate, what do you see some of the most significant impediments to achieving those outcomes?
▶ 0:46:34Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. The increasing load we are facing today, particularly given the ai revolution in our country which is integral to national security and our economic stability makes reliability more important than ever. Ferc has dealt with those issues and so have the states. It is squarely within the crosshairs of the jurisdiction of federalism.
▶ 0:47:05Ms. Swett: That is something we must navigate very thoughtfully, very carefully, and very specific to each instance in which it arises in front of ferc.
▶ 0:47:16Chair Lee: Thank you very much. I will turn the time over to martin heinrich.
▶ 0:47:22Sen. Heinrich: Earlier this year president trump signed an executive order asserting to giving the white house greater control over independent agencies. As both of you know ferc is a statutorily independent agency with a clearly defined mandate. Ms. swett, can you tell me why maintaining ferc's independence is so critical?
▶ 0:47:46Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. Maintaining ferc's independence is critical because that is how congress created the agency. In the doe organization act of 1978 congress carved ferc out of dod -- out of doe jurisdiction and provides no ferc action is under review by anyone at doe and as a lawyer who has been practicing ferc law for 15 years
▶ 0:48:17Ms. Swett: I always go back to the statute and that is what congress directed and I will not exceed the jurisdiction congress has given the agency if I am confirmed.
▶ 0:48:25Sen. Heinrich: Mr. lacerte, same question.
▶ 0:48:33Mr. Lacerte: I am no stranger to the value of independent agencies. Having spent time with the csp and acting managing director and senior advisor to the chairman I am very familiar with navigating independent agencies and I think the independence of ferc is derived from its individual structures.
▶ 0:48:55Mr. Lacerte: Those five individuals have an independent voice and it is important we nominate people who confirm people that honor that independence and follow the law and apply the facts.
▶ 0:49:04Sen. Heinrich: According to eia data, despite all we have heard about affordability today household electric bills are up 10% nationally since the beginning of this administration , in less than a year. Double digit increase in electric bills. Former republican ferc chairman has said we need every single available electron on the grid.
▶ 0:49:32Sen. Heinrich: Both of you have reference to the increased demand as a result of data centers and artificial intelligence. Would you agree that in the face of incredible rising demand, probably the greatest demand increase we have seen since the onset of air conditioning that the grid right now requires more, not less affordable and reliable energy. Ms. swett?
▶ 0:49:58Ms. Swett: I absently agree with you that the grid needs more generation and more reliable generation and we should do whatever we can to ensure lights are on. That said, under the federal power act congress has explicitly stated that ferc's mission is to ensure there is no undue discrimination in the rates that are charged pursuant to its jurisdiction and I agree with that per congress's wisdom
▶ 0:50:29Ms. Swett: And if I have the honor of being confirmed I will honor that in every matter I examine.
▶ 0:50:33Sen. Heinrich: Let's take that one step deeper down. Right now and for at least the next four years 95% of the projects slated to come onto to the grid are represented by wind, solar, and battery storage.
▶ 0:50:55Sen. Heinrich: When you look at other generation sources, they are not already in the queue, things like combined cycle gas, nuclear has permitting challenges that often times it takes 10 years to get nuclear generation built. What would the impact be if we without replacement generation took that 95% out of the pipeline of oncoming generation?
▶ 0:51:26Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. As a humble lawyer who is not an economist or a scientist I am not going to try to guess what the impact of taking that huge amount out of the queue would be. However, it is incredibly important that we thoughtfully ensure that as much generation is available as necessary to meet the unprecedented demand that our country is facing that will rise with every passing year.
▶ 0:51:56Ms. Swett: I commit to you that if I have the honor of being confirmed I will take a hard look at the matters before me, including interconnection which I understand is under challenge in several federal courts at this time. I do not want to prejudge anything but if it comes before me and I am confirmed I will do everything I can to work with my colleagues for a solution.
▶ 0:52:20Sen. Heinrich: I am not an economist but as the son of a lineman I can tell you that if we took the energy generation out of the pipeline we would see an incredible increase in costs and that is why I think everyone is incredibly concerned about that. Mr.
▶ 0:52:35Sen. Heinrich: Lacerte, can you commit to maintaining ferc's independence and commit that a generator's technology which is not been considered when making interconnection decisions, that ferc will maintain its agnostic approach to generation?
▶ 0:52:56Ms. Swett: -- Mr. lacerte: I thank you for the question. As my potential colleague has noted we must remain neutral in regard to such decisions and we will always follow the law.
▶ 0:53:08Sen. Heinrich: Mr. lacerte, the baseline statute for ferc requires the chairman and members of the commission shall be individuals who buy demonstrated ability, background, training, are especially qualified to assess the needs and concerns of all interests affected by federal energy policy. Do I understand that you have not represented to clients before at ferc?
▶ 0:53:42Mr. Lacerte: I have not represented clients before and I believe that as a strength of mind and not a negative. As former chairman christie noted departing this commission there is a real fear of regulatory capture of ferc so I think a fresh perspective amongst the five members would be a welcome addition.
▶ 0:54:00Sen. Heinrich: You've never signed any plea on a clients behalf with ferc on any matter?
▶ 0:54:06Mr. Lacerte: Correct.
▶ 0:54:08Sen. Heinrich: Described the energy work you have done at your firm.
▶ 0:54:12Mr. Lacerte: Most of my work is done on the clean air act, predominately from a focus on safety and the environment. I was housed in the litigation sector of baker bots which is one of the law firms in texas which practices energy law.
▶ 0:54:28Mr. Lacerte: Within the group there is environmental safety response section that would run the gambit up and down the stream of energy from refineries to transportation of pipelines which has crossed over from my time in the chemical safety board all the way to special chemical refining.
▶ 0:54:44Sen. Heinrich: Thank you, chairman.
▶ 0:54:47Chair Lee: Senator barrasso?
▶ 0:54:51Sen. Barrasso: Welcome to the committee. This is a committee that gets worked on. Last year we passed permitting legislation 15-4, bipartisan because for a long time we have all agreed that environmental permitting requirements have delayed or halted needing -- needed infrastructure projects for our country to make sure we have energy and the need to transmit that energy. Ms. swett, even the courts have realized this is out of control.
▶ 0:55:21Sen. Barrasso: The supreme court issued an 8-0 ruling that determined reviews have become unreasonably burdensome. In the seven county decision justice kavanaugh wrote "the national environmental policy act is a procedural crosscheck, not a roadblock." it has turned into a roadblock as the supreme court agreed.
▶ 0:55:45Sen. Barrasso: He continued "the pole of the law is to inform agency decision-making, not paralyze it." how will this impact how ferc reviews projects?
▶ 0:55:56Ms. Swett: Thank you for the senator. As someone who is been part of the nepa process for many applications, I share your sentiments that the regulatory process can be difficult to navigate and also creates quite a bit of uncertainty for infrastructure developers who invest millions of dollars into securing our nation's energy future.
▶ 0:56:27Ms. Swett: I see seven county as narrowing the scope of environmental review under nepa and now that it is more clear what ferc is required to do in examining the project before it under the procedural statutes of nepa I am confident that if I have the honor of being confirmed we should be able to take a hard look at ferc's processes to see what efficiencies are available and what we can make more transparent for the industry and to the benefit of the american
▶ 0:56:58Ms. Swett: People.
▶ 0:56:59Sen. Barrasso: We talked about ferc not being widely known about outside washington, D.C. but the commission's actions have a big impact on the lives of americans across the country. The decisions the commission makes determines whether the lights reliably go on when people flip the switch. Provide us your views on ferc's of ensuring the reliability and availability of energy.
▶ 0:57:26Mr. Lacerte: Reliability and affordability is a bedrock of ferc's work. If confirmed would ask two questions about every single action taken. Does this make our grid and energy structure more reliable the second question is does this make our grid and energy structure more affordable. If the answer is no I would ask why are we doing it?
▶ 0:57:52Mr. Lacerte: It is a fundamental balance of affordability and reliability that impacts every aspect of their entire industry within our country. It is such a large percentage of our gdp. It is important that outside of ferc those impacts are recognized in those perspectives are welcome.
▶ 0:58:15Sen. Barrasso: We have had years of stagnant electric demand but that has changed because we are expecting a rapid growth with ai and data centers and electrification. As I pointed out to this committee in the past peak demand in the summers expected five years from now to increase as if entirely -- as if adding an entirely new california to the grid even to the point that the new york times said that as a front-page story.
▶ 0:58:46Sen. Barrasso: Demand is growing. Clearly ferc will play a vital part in managing this growth. Can you share your thoughts on the importance of meeting the demand growth and ferc's in meeting that effort.
▶ 0:58:59Ms. Swett: I have lost sleep a few nights worrying about our country will meet the demand it faces. If I have the honor of being confirmed I would do everything I can within the powers clearly drawn by congress for the agency and that is to ensure there is plentiful supply of energy at just and reasonable rates and taking a hard look at the merits of every single matter before me, including the specific
▶ 0:59:30Ms. Swett: Geographic market characteristics of each matter, which are extremely different depending on what market they are, the type of company in front of the commission and also how it interconnects to the grid. I would weigh all of those to ensure ferc is encouraging connection and development of whatever it can.
▶ 0:59:52Sen. Barrasso: Thank you. My time has expired. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:59:58Chair Lee: Senator king, you are up.
▶ 1:00:02Sen. King: I am a little confused. Senator lee asked you the question about the humphreys executor decision and you seem to indicate you felt the president would and should have the power to fire a ferc commissioner. Is that your position?
▶ 1:00:23Mr. Lacerte: My position is that we will follow the law and of the highest court in the land changes that law we will follow that.
▶ 1:00:31Sen. King: It is hard for me to imagine how the president having the power to fire the commissioners that you could still call the commission independent. That is a compromise. Let's talk about the central reality we are facing and that is the incredible increase of demand of electricity that the chairman in the last year and we have had indicated data we are looking at 2% a year increase in demand over 10 years.
▶ 1:01:00Sen. King: Compounded that is 30%, that is a staggering increase. The question is there are two issues. One is the power availability and the second is time. How soon can it come? Ms. swett what is the cheapest form of electors -- of energy generation today in the country?
▶ 1:01:21Ms. Swett: I've not looked into that issue but I am happy to answer.
▶ 1:01:25Sen. King: It is wind and solar by a mile, by a factor of two. The fellow who left under difficult circumstances was correct. The cheapest form of energy today are wind and solar by a long shot. Let's take a case study in iowa. Any idea how much wind power supplies to the electricity supply of iowa?
▶ 1:01:52Ms. Swett: I don't know the specific number.
▶ 1:01:55Sen. King: 60%. Iowa is the 15th lowest electricity cost in the country and over the past year we have learned average electricity prices have gone up between 6% and 10%. In iowa it has gone down .5%. The point is to both of talked about being agnostic. I hope you will hold to that because we cannot ignore the reality around us that this administration is extremely hostile -- and that is a mild term -- to renewable energy.
▶ 1:02:28Sen. King: And the second point is I talked about price is speed. There is no question that wind and solar are the quickest to deploy. Senator heinrich mentioned if you wanted a new grass -- a new gas implant today it would be seven years between permitting and the fact there is a five-year wait time. A major solar project should go on line in a year or a year and a half.
▶ 1:02:49Sen. King: I hope you will be true to your word today and not follow what amounts to an ideology that says we cannot have wind and solar. Mr. lacerte, will you commit to being agnostic as to energy sources and focus entirely on reliability, cost, and availability?
▶ 1:03:16Mr. Lacerte: The federal power act requires a commissioner be neutral in those positions and I commit to following the law.
▶ 1:03:23Sen. King: Speed is an issue. This demand growth will be taking place in the next two, 3, 5, 6 years. Do not have that time to conjure electrons out of the sky. We can conjure them out of the sky if we are talking about solar power. The second issue is the grid. The grid is not prepared for this increase in demand.
▶ 1:03:52Sen. King: One of the concerns I have is the cost of expanding the grid to meet the demand will be gigantic. We have to be sure the expansion of the grid is done in a cost-effective way and that is where ferc comes in and that is where grid enhancing technologies come in. Talk to me about utilizing grid enhancing technologies as opposed to building in the old way and adding this cost to the consumer's.
▶ 1:04:21Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. I fully share your sentiment that we should be maximizing the resources we already have, including the existing grid. As someone who has represented transmission owners in the past I understand the technology behind that and the benefits that can be realized from gets.
▶ 1:04:43Sen. King: You also understand it is the incentive to the transmission owner is to build, not to the low cost no cost improvements and therefore I think ferc has to think about how we incentivize the adoption of these technologies. Letting the market play as it normally would where the transmission owner has the incentive to actually build rather than make the grid more efficient. I hope you will bear that in mind.
▶ 1:05:12Ms. Swett: Thank you. I understand that transmission incentives have been heavily litigated at ferc and ferc has been facing those difficult issues for many years and I commit I will take a hard look at any of those matters if they come before me.
▶ 1:05:28Sen. King: I hope you both, assuming you are confirmed and that is up to the committee and the senate, you take a serious look at the interconnection cub es. Remember we talked about time. The average weight in many rto's is five years and that is unacceptable. Some of the rto's are talking about using ai in the engineering analysis.
▶ 1:06:00Sen. King: That has to be part of the solution. Time is our enemy. If we do not meet this demand we will see very negative consequences. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:06:13Chair Lee: Senator cortez masto? Congratulations on your nomination and thank you for being with me. Welcome to your family. I appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions. I want to do some follow-up on those questions for the record as well. We have been talking about the importance of the independence of ferc and you both admitted to that.
▶ 1:06:43Chair Lee: I would want to confirm my understanding of the law. And your understanding of it as well. Currently the law allows ferc to promulgate significant regulations, the law allows you to do that and there is a process for doing that.
▶ 1:07:00Ms. Swett: Yes.
▶ 1:07:03Sen. Cortez Masto: Does the law to require review of those regulations by the president before you go through your process? Yes or no?
▶ 1:07:11Mr. Lacerte: I would have to defer to the ministry to procedure act on that. I've not reviewed that for that particular question.
▶ 1:07:20Sen. Cortez Masto: Apa does not allow that. Does the law and the apa and the rules you follow for ferc for regulatory agencies when you're promulgating the rules, there is process to follow and in that legal process is a required review of the president prior to moving forward?
▶ 1:07:40Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. I am unaware of any law passed by congress that states that
▶ 1:07:46Garrett Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. That is the crux of this issue. That is why I want to be honest with me. I know there is no requirement by the president review anything we have set in law for an agency to do and that is what he has put into his executive order and that is my concern. There should be none of that oversight. It will be before a court and the court may make a determination and that will change. Let me move on.
▶ 1:08:19Garrett Sen. Cortez Masto: As we have discussed manufacturing and data centers are industries causing a massive surge in electricity demand across the country. In my home state of nevada is experiencing this through new battery manufacturing facilities and data operation centers across the state.
▶ 1:08:35Garrett Sen. Cortez Masto: In anticipation of this boom nevada energy has taken innovative steps to utilize grid enhancing technologies to re-conduct lines that bolster the capacity of reliability of existing power lines. From each of your perspectives do you think the existing grid can be improved and maximized by new technologies to help mitigate those costs? Mr. lacerte let me start with you.
▶ 1:09:01Mr. Lacerte: I fully support maximizing technology as it relates to the grid and as we continue to innovate those technologies will only get more efficient and more effective. It has to be a continuous process. I note ferc has required analysis on grid enhancement technologies through other orders and I support the continued analysis and encouragement of their usage as we evolve in these areas and finding new ways to deliver electricity.
▶ 1:09:28Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. Ms. swett?
▶ 1:09:32Ms. Swett: I fully share my potential colleague views on this matter.
▶ 1:09:36Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me say that despite recent ferc orders generation cues across the country are notoriously backlogged and this is preventing the connection of new energy resources needed for growing power demands. There was a recent report by a lab that determined 2300 gigawatts of generation and storage capacity was held up in interconnection cues at the end of 2024.
▶ 1:10:06Sen. Cortez Masto: If confirmed how you believe ferc can best fix this backlog and address the growing demand? Either one of you wants to start?
▶ 1:10:17Mr. Lacerte: I appreciate that question and frankly there is too long of a line for almost everything. Interconnection is one of them. I know this is a multifaceted issue and it is a discussion I will have with rto's so I welcome their perspective.
▶ 1:10:35Mr. Lacerte: We will work together as partners to come up with solutions to that issue at a number of other issues that take too long, sap the work of the ferc career staff and make it too hard for those who want to invest in our infrastructure to do so. It is a bipartisan issue. We need to come forward to find solutions for not only the interconnection cube but the long list and long wait times to do business across the board.
▶ 1:11:03Sen. Cortez Masto: Anything else to add?
▶ 1:11:06Ms. Swett: The interconnection cube has been something -- the interconnection queue has been something ferc has been wrangling with for many years. Given that is under appeal in federal courts I do not want to prejudge where it will come out. If I have the honor of being confirmed I will work hard with my colleagues to see what ferc can do to solve that problem.
▶ 1:11:31Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you both.
▶ 1:11:35Chair Lee: We turn to senator daines who just pay me a profound complement noting my uncanny resemblance to Mr. lacerte which is a huge complement to me. Mr. lacerte, 20 years ago women were getting the rachel haircut. Now we are getting the lacerte.
▶ 1:12:01Sen. Daines: If the chairman would put away his razor we would have a real resemblance. I want to congratulate the nominees and invite you both to come out to montana to see the issues we are talking about. We are rich in energy resources in montana.
▶ 1:12:17Sen. Daines: Ferc's mission is "to assist consumers in obtaining reliable, safe, secure and economically efficient energy." ferc is not and should not be a climate regulator. Ferc is and should remain an independent body that focusing on safety and economics and stays true to the mission. My first question for both Ms.
▶ 1:12:49Sen. Daines: Swett and Mr. lacerte has been the same for many of the ferc nominees that have come before this committee. It is a yes or no question. Do you agree that ferc's primary mission is to be an economic and safety regulator?
▶ 1:13:08Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. I absolutely agree that ferc is an economic regulator primarily.
▶ 1:13:17Mr. Lacerte: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:13:20Sen. Daines: Will you commit to review each decision that comes before you at the commission fairly, impartially come in through the lens of providing affordable, reliable, and save energy?
▶ 1:13:35Ms. Swett: I make that commitment wholeheartedly.
▶ 1:13:38Mr. Lacerte: Absolutely.
▶ 1:13:41Sen. Daines: I want to pivot and talk about hydropower permitting. Hydropower provides the second largest share of electricity generation in montana. It is a wonderful source of renewable energy and baseload power and affordable and reliable power. Many of the existing dams are currently undergoing licensing.
▶ 1:14:16Sen. Daines: The process is broken and it takes -- to license a hydro-dam that has been operating four decades. I have worked hard to make changes of that process.
▶ 1:14:36Sen. Daines: This includes modest changes to speed up the process, focus it on the actual effects of the project moving forward instead of a wish list of mandatory conditions from agencies and outside stakeholders. My question for Ms. swett and Mr. lacerte, do you agree we need to speed up licensing and relicensing for hydropower in order to continue to grow and maintain renewable baseload sources?
▶ 1:15:05Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question. Given our unprecedented demand we are facing, getting every single molecule of electricity on the grid is of tantamount importance that includes hydro and the wonderful resource it is, particularly for your state.
▶ 1:15:26Ms. Swett: I understand these hydro license owners are facing diminishing resources and it is difficult for them to operate and I am committed to doing whatever I can if I have the honor of being confirmed at taking a hard look at ferc's pace of relicensing though I understand there are many players, states and several federal agencies.
▶ 1:15:50Ms. Swett: Within the power congress grants the agency I commit I will take a hard look at it if colleaguese more efficient for lessons owners.
▶ 1:16:05Mr. Lacerte: We need to do better job of not only reforming the licensing for hydro but across the board. It takes too long to do business with government, invest in our infrastructure and we need to do a better job everywhere. I want to confirm with the record that I accept are invitation to come to montana. >> thank you. It could involve a fly rod.
▶ 1:16:32Mr. Lacerte: I will do whatever it takes. >> let me close with this brief statement. If we are going to meet demand, we simply need more of virtually every energy source. We simply need to be building more, which includes permitting more and trying to accelerate getting more of the electrons on the grid.
▶ 1:17:02Mr. Lacerte: More natural gas, more coal, more hydropower, more nuclear, more geothermal, more wind, more solar. We need more electrons. I encourage the nominees to keep that in the back, and I might argue the front of your minds while you are making decisions on the future of U.S. energy policy or thank you for being before this committee and for your willingness to serve in the very important roles for our country.
▶ 1:17:35Chair Lee: Senator padilla.
▶ 1:17:38Sen. Padilla: First, as we know comfort is critically important, serves as a central regulator for america's intrastate energy system, shipping everything from grid reliability to our monthly builds as well as the pace of the project deployment. All of this work is made possible just by the commissioners and by the professional staff. My first question for both of you is, yes or no question.
▶ 1:18:10Sen. Padilla: Do you agree that the ferc step is critical to the operations and success of ferc?
▶ 1:18:17Ms. Swett: Yes senator I agree.
▶ 1:18:19Mr. Lacerte: Yes comfort will not be successful without the staff.
▶ 1:18:27Sen. Padilla: I appreciate your answers. You are aware that in february of this year, president trump issued an executive order requiring that agency heads undertake preparations to initiate large-scale reductions in force at their respective agencies.
▶ 1:18:46Sen. Padilla: So given your acknowledgment that the staff at ferc is critical to its mission and success come when you commit to protecting the ferc staff from directed reductions at the white house?
▶ 1:19:02Mr. Lacerte: I don't for see a large scale reduction of staff at ferc. I don't for see in you and asking that of ferc.
▶ 1:19:16Ms. Swett: As someone who worked along the staff, I know how mission driven they are and technically strong and legally strong they are and the value of each employee there.
▶ 1:19:28Sen. Padilla: I'm not getting a clear yes. You may not see a reduction in staff that we have seen it across the administration for months and months so yes or no, we go to bat for maintaining staff?
▶ 1:19:43Mr. Lacerte: Yes.
▶ 1:19:45Ms. Swett: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:19:50Sen. Padilla: I want to echo a concern that senator heinrich has raised a couple of times. And so did senator king for that matter, respecting the independence of ferc and how critical the independence is for the job that it does. Ms. swett, I am satisfied with the answer you gave earlier. But Mr.
▶ 1:20:10Sen. Padilla: Lacerte, you gave it a caveat referencing the supreme court and whether they wouldn't change anything in terms of the president's ability to hire or fire commissioners. What is your commitment to maintaining the independence of ferc regardless of the outcome of any case that gets to the supreme court?
▶ 1:20:29Mr. Lacerte: I will do most of my ability under the law to maintain the independence of ferc.
▶ 1:20:36Sen. Padilla: I cannot imagine, this is not hypothetical, listing the president threaten and actually follow up on those threats on agency after agency both of those directly under his jurisdiction and authorities and many of those that are not. So that it is a significant concern. The last area I do want to bring up is transmission and generation.
▶ 1:21:03Sen. Padilla: Obviously, it is critical for fulfilling our growing needs as a country, as an economy where we have seen since last congress has continued delays and projections of low growth as well as increasing energy costs. That is the data before us at this moment. What specific steps should first take to accelerate the processing for transmission level projects.
▶ 1:21:34Sen. Padilla: I know another raise this but I want to eat more specific. I would like to acknowledge we need more transmission. To meet the coming needs, I have seen some of the growth projections and need projections and I certainly understand where you are coming from. Transmission will be part and parcel to maintaining that growth in stating that growth over the long-term. It is important to note we need to do so with production.
▶ 1:22:03Sen. Padilla: It has to be an important balance. He needs to be done decision by decision and brick by brick could that is the way the policies are implement it at ferc and that is my commitment.
▶ 1:22:15Sen. Padilla: One follow-up question to that. There are proposals being kicked around, particularly as we have gone to the permitting reform negotiations here at this committee level, standardized timelines and penalties for transmission owners who fail to meet those deadlines is certainly one approach to move the ball forward.
▶ 1:22:39Sen. Padilla: But the follow-up and final question at the moment is, do you commit to doing that job and meeting those objectives, regardless of resource type? If we are in such need of additional energy on the grid, I know this administration is a big fan of fossil fuels but are electrons, natural gas plants whether it geothermal generating electricity, we have talked
▶ 1:23:10Sen. Padilla: About hydro in this hearing. I an equal commitment to solar projects, wind projects whether onshore or offshore. Yes or no?
▶ 1:23:17Mr. Lacerte: Thank you, senator. The federal power act requires a commission to be neutral in such a thing. I will follow the law and maintain that neutrality.
▶ 1:23:27Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question, senator. I echo my colleague's sentiments here that for cannot unbleached discriminate against any type of generation.
▶ 1:23:38Sen. Padilla: Thank you very much.
▶ 1:23:38Chair Lee: We will now turn to the floor. The governor of north dakota and the current senior center. >> thank you, Mr. chair and thanks to both of you for being here.
▶ 1:23:51Chair Lee: First question I have for both of you is that coal provides an incredible amount of the baseload of power generation in the country, certainly in our area, for example, north dakota, two of our regional grid operators both get a lot of their base from coal-fired electric plants. We have them in our state.
▶ 1:24:16Chair Lee: We have to have more baseload for the stability of the grid at large. If confirmed, I will start with you, Ms. swett, and then you, Mr. lacerte,. How do you a new demand growth recognizing we need baseload for the stability of the grid to have that available 20 4/7?
▶ 1:24:41Ms. Swett: Thank you for your question, senator, and I appreciated the time to meet with you yesterday. If I have the honor of being confirmed, then I believe that ensuring different jurisdictional markets are sending accurate price signals, will value all types of generation, including value of baseload if we could do whatever ferc can in its jurisdiction to ensure those markets are well-functioning, I am committed to that goal if I am confirmed.
▶ 1:25:12Ms. Swett: >> you have to send the right market signals. You have thoughts on how you do that? If you take two projects, one that keeps continuing to add intermittent energy to the grid which is creating less stability, versus adding more baseload in you give them the exact same pricing signal, then you are not getting the more baseload we need. Do you have thoughts on how to do that?
▶ 1:25:39Ms. Swett: Yes, I have thoughts after working on this for the chairman who I served under during my time at first. -- at ferc. Every market is struggling with asser -- resource and integrating the state decisions that are in those markets on their generation mix and portfolios, which is fully within their jurisdiction under the law.
▶ 1:26:10Ms. Swett: The best thing that ferc can do is take all of the inputs it gets from those states and their generation choices and every generator before it and the rates it is considering to ensure just and reasonable rates are achieved under the federal power act.
▶ 1:26:26Mr. Lacerte: Thank you, senator. I enjoyed our conversation in your office. I appreciate it. , it is important that we understand that coal is part of our energy mix. I have seen the studies and supply and demand and we are going to need more reliable power going forward" plays an important part in the mix. >> in our state, we have it all.
▶ 1:27:00Mr. Lacerte: We have biofuels, wind, solar, we have it all. We do it all. We don't just say all of the above, we actually do it. The different forms of power have their role. But even to put more intermittent, we are going to have more baseload or it doesn't work. Would you agree with that?
▶ 1:27:20Mr. Lacerte: Absolutely. Talk, each of you, and again follow-up on the conversation, the other challenge we have as we are moving energy to market, and we see that because we are in north dakota and we lose a lot of energy to a stroke -- 12 state region. How do we build the projects but at the same time make sure we protect states rights and property rights?
▶ 1:27:50Mr. Lacerte: What are your ideas in that regard?
▶ 1:27:52Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question, senator. I agree that building big transition projects is essential to our reliability as a nation and I am committed to doing whatever ferc can to ensure that its part encourages infrastructure development. That said, I am also, if I am confirmed, I will faithfully execute the laws as passed by congress.
▶ 1:28:21Ms. Swett: Ferc does not have authority over her transmission. It only has a very small portion of the law for eminent domain within a doe designated corridor. So whatever it the guidance of congress is on that matter, I will faithfully execute the laws change as well. >> but certainly sensitive to protecting private property rights?
▶ 1:28:42Ms. Swett: Yes, absolutely, senator. I am very aware of landowner rights are a very important and personal and I would take a hard look at them in any matter if I
▶ 1:28:54Am Mr. Lacerte: Confirmed.
▶ 1:28:55Mr. Lacerte: -- if I am confirmed.
▶ 1:28:58Mr. Lacerte: I push a value of states rights and the lack of federal encroachment upon those rights. It is important to me. We discussed it in your office the other day and it is important to note that we take into land rights when we are permitting and the pipelines and I think it is definitely an important factor within those particular rounds. >> thanks to both of you.
▶ 1:29:30Chair Lee: We will turn next to her is senator gallego. >> energy is extremely important in arizona, particularly to stay cool. Arizonans have to show a lot the next dollars compared to the winter electric bills from up, the highest costs.
▶ 1:29:55Chair Lee: We have growth of both data warehouses as well as ship manufacturing. As the load growth demand rises, arizonans deserve a federal leaders to ensure that their energy costs does not get more expensive and dangerously less reliable. First went to echo some of the concerns of my colleagues around the ferc independence.
▶ 1:30:23Chair Lee: Some of that we've been wary to see with ferc and other independent committees that have crept in and I want to make sure that you continue to do that dream especially in arizona summers, our energy grid faces very high demand. In 2023, a study was done that a multi-blackout could cost nearly half the city to require emergent department care and could kill thousands of arizonans.
▶ 1:30:53Chair Lee: And we're certainly not the only state dealing with extreme heat and other weather disasters. How will you partner with public utility regulators to identify and respond to emerging reliability challenges across the country?
▶ 1:31:05Mr. Lacerte: Thank you, senator. Thank you for your service. My grandfather is buried in the veterans cemetery. So I want to thank you for that. The impact of liability on our systems is one of public health, important to note that in your home state of arizona, air conditioning is not just a nicety, it is a necessity. I understand that.
▶ 1:31:30Mr. Lacerte: It goes back to when my earlier comments that we need to return the ferc decision-making to every question we need to ask is will this decision make our grid more reliable and resilient or will it make the grid more affordable? The answer is known and we need to pare back down to the baseline statute with the federal power act. We need to have that be our guiding light and home base and everything we do within ferc.
▶ 1:31:54Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question, senator. Given my time at ferc, I understand that the interconnection both geographically and scientifically are different and has different components for the load centers in the west are further apart.
▶ 1:32:11Ms. Swett: The bulk power grid also has issues that the eastern connection doesn't have and all of those factors would be components that are required by a sitting fork commissioner analysis of what would be a just and reasonable rate in the matters before them. If I am confirmed, I will honor the law and look at every single fact as it pertains to your state and every other state.
▶ 1:32:35Ms. Swett: >> where the areas that it is very important in arizona, we have recognized tribes and some of the largest representation in the country. They are very far displaced, hard to get to in terms of energy and connections for those tribes to have which creates problems when it comes to economic growth, any type of general welfare.
▶ 1:33:02Ms. Swett: One of the things we talked about is engaging with tribes and upholding the trust responsibility in the decision-making process. You will see that some of the tribal governments want to work with whether it is a ferc or other government agencies but sometimes are not treated with the respect they are due.
▶ 1:33:25Ms. Swett: As the agency regulates transmission of gas projects, first decisions to impact tribal electricity will matter to them. When you commit to maintain ferc's tribal liaison and gas tribal coordinator roles? Why that matters for arizonans is if you see some of the routes where we can bring in new pipelines and new lines in in general, it will have to cross through a lot of tribal lands.
▶ 1:33:52Ms. Swett: It is easier if you are working with them at a time through tribal consultation and a dedicated manner than not.
▶ 1:34:08Mr. Lacerte: Thank you for your question, senator. I agree we can do a better job of working with partners including state public commissions, rto's and the native american tribes are important -- important component of our partnerships in you made mention that you need to work with the leaders in order to develop strategies and solutions that work for longer term. I am from south louisiana. I grew up adjacent to an indian tribe. There was homeless tribe and I am very familiar of working with tribal leaders.
▶ 1:34:38Mr. Lacerte: It is important and known across the federal government and within for itself. >> I am asking if you will maintain the tribal liaison spirit just yes or no.
▶ 1:34:50Mr. Lacerte: I'm not seated yet and I'm not they are with the seating but I certainly support the mission.
▶ 1:34:58Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question, senator. I agree that every voice must be heard. And the ferc role is to consider everything on the record that includes tribal voices if they are filed in a project record before ferc.
▶ 1:35:16Ms. Swett: I commit to you that I would take a hard look at all of that information and given that like my colleague, I am not seated at ferc and not familiar with the program is regarding tribal liaisons but I will absolutely take a hard look at that if I am confirmed. >> thank you.
▶ 1:35:36Chair Lee: Go ahead, senator king.
▶ 1:35:44Sen. King: We have talked about batteries. And there is a discussion about baseload power and renewables plus a batteries is a base batteries can also have an important role to play in transmission. Can you discuss that? Stabilizing the grid.
▶ 1:36:02Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question, senator. I have not looked into the battery engineering components as they relate to the grid but I would absolutely be open to any type of technology that would stabilize or enhance our existing grid if I had the honor of being confirmed.
▶ 1:36:20Sen. King: Thoughts on batteries?
▶ 1:36:21Mr. Lacerte: I agree that batteries can be an important component of increasing the reliability of baseload. As the technologies evolve, those letters will become more and more efficient and effective. It definitely once continued monitoring and usage and should be looked at by ferc.
▶ 1:36:43Sen. King: Is growing quickly in order to buffer whether renewables or any other problems that may be encountered in the grade. Soil that is something you have in the back of your mind in terms of regulatory. Batteries I believe will become a much bigger part of the grid then they are today and that is going to be happening fast. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:37:08Chair Lee: Senator hickenlooper.
▶ 1:37:12Sen. Wicker: Luger -- simple hickenlooper -- Sen.
▶ 1:37:21Hickenlooper: Thank you for being Ms. swett, here. -- for being here. Ms. swett, let me start with you. As we discussed, your experience focuses on oil and gas. As you know, ferc's 30 goes well beyond oil and gas as we discussed to a certain extent.
▶ 1:37:46Hickenlooper: As you I'm sure could feel from the direction of my questions yesterday, regional transmission planning, cost allocation, electricity markets are central and is most fundamental statutory responsibility. As we talked about the reliability and affordability I think are the two.
▶ 1:38:15Hickenlooper: I will ask both of you this question. Unlike most other places in the world, our grid is regionalized and does not operate under a unified policy. Therefore, the oversight of ferc is essential.
▶ 1:38:27Hickenlooper: So I guess the question would be, how can you work to ensure the electric reliability and affordability to the regional transmission planning and let's just call it the market oversight, electricity market oversight question mark -- oversight?
▶ 1:38:48Ms. Swett: Thank you for the question, senator. I enjoyed speaking with you yesterday. I spent half my career working for electric utility owners. And given my experience with them, I am very aware of the competing interests that go into regional transmission planning, the decisions on a physical grade, also cost allocation planning, taking into account congestion points and all of the science that goes behind it.
▶ 1:39:16Ms. Swett: Ferc has very difficult role as the federal agency tasked with ensuring all of that is combined into a just and reasonable rate. I am confident that if we really put our heads up to it, we can figure out a solution that will ensure that american consumers pay a just and reasonable rate given all of the factors in front of ferc.
▶ 1:39:39Sen. Hickenlooper: Do you want to add anything to that?
▶ 1:39:43Mr. Lacerte: That is a trillion dollar question. That is one which will not be solved in two minutes but I can tell you it is something that requires very intensive discussion with the stakeholders at the table. His faceted issue and definitely a challenge faced for tomorrow.
▶ 1:40:03Sen. Hickenlooper: We discussed this a little bit yesterday. I thought about it more. The interregional transmission helps to deliver at the lowest cost energy sources from where they are generated to where electricity is needed and often times that is reflected in the cost, what is more valuable.
▶ 1:40:26Sen. Hickenlooper: This committee recently had a whole hearing looking at how do we meet demand in an efficient way. We heard the transmission is going to be clearly needed to address ai boom, let's call it. Do you agree that transmission across state lines increases the reliability of the grid?
▶ 1:40:52Sen. Hickenlooper: As you cross state lines, that is one of the basic methods to increase reliability.
▶ 1:40:59Mr. Lacerte: I would agree, senator, the interstate transmission when properly planned and executed will increase the reliability could
▶ 1:41:08Sen. Hickenlooper: Great. Are there reforms in terms of how do we do that? We touched on this a little yesterday but what are the reforms we need to make sure we do that build out in the appropriate way?
▶ 1:41:25Mr. Lacerte: Thank you, and I know we spent some time talking about this yesterday in your office. We need to make it easier to do business with the federal government. By reducing barriers to entry and reducing exclusion of the mid and smaller companies that can do business, we will invite more investors to the table to invest in our grid and infrastructure. That will pay dividends in both the reliability and affordability of our energy systems.
▶ 1:41:52Sen. Hickenlooper: Is it your sense that we will need to expand our transmission capacity in order to address the load growth given ai and all of the other things that are coming?
▶ 1:42:05Mr. Lacerte: Senator, it only makes sense that with increased load, we will need increased growth.
▶ 1:42:14Sen. Hickenlooper: Ms. swett, do you want to add anything to that?
▶ 1:42:18Ms. Swett: David lacerte --thank you for the question, senator. As a general premise increasing the amount of transmission available increases the geographic availability of new generation to join the grid.
▶ 1:42:36Ms. Swett: As you know, it was high population load centers are not good places to build increased generation that we need and if we have more accessibility across state lines like you are proposing and that means there is more flexibility for generators to use the specific characteristics of the land around them, wherever that may make sense to beat where it is.
▶ 1:42:59Sen. Hickenlooper: Exactly. I cannot ask for -- we agree. I am out of time as always. Thank you both, again, for your willingness to serve the country.
▶ 1:43:12Chair Lee: As we are wrapping up, I just want to hit a couple things for which you are confirmed, assuming you are confirmed, I look forward to working with both of you on permitting reform. Senator barrasso and others have referred to that effort today. I look forward to working with you on that as ferc has an important role in the permitting process for the areas we have discussed.
▶ 1:43:41Chair Lee: I also wanted to clarify since we have had some discussions surrounding the epa pretty want to clarify that while the apa doesn't require presidential reviews, there is also nothing there prohibiting. I want to thank both witnesses, nominees, for being here, for your families, for the members who have participated in their cooperation this morning and this hearing.
▶ 1:44:10Chair Lee: Questions for the record for the hearing are due by 6:00 p.m. This evening, september 4. And on behalf of the committee, I congratulate both nominees and look forward to working with each of you. The hearing stands adjourned.