▶ 0:18:07Chair Scott: Let us get started this morning. Today, we once again convened to consider -- a slate of well-qualified nominees put forward by president trump. Each nominee shares a commitment to ensuring the american economy remains strong, competitive and in -- and secure.
▶ 0:18:37Chair Scott: From housing, to maintaining confidence in the federal reserve. The work of these nominees directly impacts the lives of everyday americans and the prosperity of states like my home state of south carolina. More than 450,000 small businesses operating in south carolina alone and decisions in washington have direct impacts on local jobs and economic growth.
▶ 0:19:02Chair Scott: The senate banking committee must ensure that those entrusted with these roles are capable, accountable, and focused on advancing opportunity for all americans. The nominees before us will pick a -- will play a key role in addressing these challenges and ensuring that america's workforce remains competitive. Let me highlight the impressive credentials of each nominee before us today. Mr.
▶ 0:19:31Chair Scott: Ben hobbs, nominated to serve as the assistant secretary for public and indian housing is someone I know well. I will just simply say that from opportunity zones to his work on my staff, he has proven to be an excellent, excellent person. Committed to the success and prosperity of everyday americans.
▶ 0:19:59Chair Scott: The one thing we need more of our people who are sacrificial in providing service to our country and varied roles throughout. It has been my honor and privilege to watch ben succeed. And now get paid a lot of more money than I will ever be paid. Thank you for being here. Next, Mr. ronnie kurtz. I know that you will not make that much money but you get the point. Mr.
▶ 0:20:29Chair Scott: Ronnie kurtz, nominated to be the assistant secretary for community planning and development, bringing practical on the ground experience from his leadership in the state of georgia. He knows firsthand the responsibilities on this position from code enforcement, zoning and public areas.
▶ 0:20:49Chair Scott: That hands-on knowledge is critical where decisions must balance local realities with national priorities. Together their experience will guide federal programs to better serve communities and I look forward to their leadership in carrying out our road to housing act when it becomes law. Dr. stephen miran, nominated to serve as a governor of the federal reserve board and is well-known on the committee.
▶ 0:21:19Chair Scott: He has already helped guide the trump administration towards policies that have boosted domestic production, produce trade deficits and increased revenues with the treasury department. His expertise will strengthen the fed at this critical moment. Mr. christopher pilkerton, nominated to be the assistant secretary for investment security and will lead the outbound investment screening efforts.
▶ 0:21:49Chair Scott: He brings the legal and financial experience needed to keep america secure from hostile foreign influence and ensure that U.S. investment does not aid adversaries in key sectors. Mr. jonathan burke has a proven track record both in government and in the private sector. From his early days at treasury to his work implementing rigorous anti-financial crime controls, he understands the stakes of his mission.
▶ 0:22:21Chair Scott: Protecting the american economy from those who would do it harm. Each of these nominees represent president trump's commitment to unleashing the golden age of american prosperity. An age where families can access safe housing and small businesses in south carolina and across the nation can thrive, and where the united states can stop those who would do financial harm and stay ahead of those who want to undermine our
▶ 0:22:52Chair Scott: Economic strength. Ranking member?
▶ 0:22:55Sen. Warren: Thank you. Mr. chairman, I believe we are holding the wrong hearing today. President trump has conducted a month-long campaign to seize control of the federal reserve. He is trying to intimidate and threaten to fire chair powell. When that did not work he illegally attempted to fire board governor lisa cook so that he could seize control of the fed.
▶ 0:23:27Sen. Warren: Why does president trump want to control the fed? Because the president promised on day one, those were his words, on day one to cut costs for american families. We are now on day 227 and costs are not down. Donald trump has failed to deliver on his promises. The cost of groceries is up. Utility bills, up. Housing and health care, up.
▶ 0:23:57Sen. Warren: Back-to-school shoes and baby strollers, up. Instead of taking responsibility for his failing economic agenda, and changing his tariff policies and instead of reversing his disaster is energy policies and instead of restoring health care coverage that he helped rip away from 15 million americans, trump wants to make the federal reserve his scapegoat.
▶ 0:24:27Sen. Warren: Illegally removing a fed governor is a key step in trump's scheme to enjoy the independence of the fed and turn it into his own personal toy. He wants to install his lackeys so that we will have a fed that uses its power to please the president, but cannot be trusted to keep inflation under control.
▶ 0:24:47Sen. Warren: If donald trump seizes control, that decisions will not be driven by data, and instead they will follow donald trump's political plans. When it loses the credibility, businesses and consumers stop trusting it to encrypt. To control inflation and acting like inflation is here to stay which raises prices for american families in the long run. This is not hypothetical.
▶ 0:25:19Sen. Warren: We have seen it before in other countries and also in the united states. It happened in the 1970's, when president nixon bullied the fed for keeping rates too low for too long and led to years of stagflation where interest rates, unemployment, and inflation stayed high.
▶ 0:25:39Sen. Warren: It happened in turkiye and argentina when their authoritarian leaders took over they are central banks and inflation surged above 80% and 200% respectively. Deep down, even my republican colleagues now that a presidential takeover of the fed is a recipe for disaster. There are members of congress who have spent their careers being apologists for the fed.
▶ 0:26:10Sen. Warren: I am not one of them. I have worked with republicans including those on this committee for years on commonsense reforms to make the fed more transparent and more accountable to congress and the public. I have been more vocal than anyone in the senate calling on the fed to lower interest rates for years now. That is not what president trump is doing.
▶ 0:26:37Sen. Warren: They hearing this committee should be having today is to investigate president trump's ongoing assault on the independence of the fed, and his efforts to intimidate and illegally remove fed policy breakers -- policymakers. We should be putting our efforts to stop trump's reckless takeover not holding a business as usual confirmation hearing to help grease the skids are to grab more power. Mr.
▶ 0:27:07Sen. Warren: Chairman, every single democratic member of the committee wrote to you last week, asking that you postpone this hearing. Dr. miron's nomination and demand for quick confirmation before the september fed meeting are directly tied to his illegal attempts to fire governor cook, and to the ongoing effort to take over the fed. Dr.
▶ 0:27:32Sen. Warren: Miron, during your tenure as a counselor of the chance -- of economic advisers, your primary achievement has been your willingness to make increasingly absurd economic claims on behalf of every single reckless trump move. You have helped design his chaotic tariff policies that are driving up costs for families.
▶ 0:27:56Sen. Warren: You also played cheerleader for the one big beautiful bill that cuts health care for 15 million americans, and spikes for household electricity prices nationwide by up to 18% over the next decade. Even if the republicans on this committee course through his confirmation, his tenure will be tainted.
▶ 0:28:21Sen. Warren: No one, not the american public, or investors at home or the worldwide financial markets will trust him as an independent voice. Every claim he makes and every vote he takes will be tainted with the suspicion that he is not an honest broker, but instead is donald trump's puppet.
▶ 0:28:44Sen. Warren: If we allow the fed to become political football, every american consumer, worker and business will pay a long term price. Thank you.
▶ 0:28:53Chair Scott: I will now swear in the nominees, will you please stand? Rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Do you agree and -- du jour -- agreed to testify before any duly committed committee of the senate? The written statements will be made as part of your record.
▶ 0:29:25Chair Scott: Please keep your oral comments to five minutes. You are now recognized.
▶ 0:29:29Mr. Hobbs: Thank chairman scott, ranking member and members of the committee for the opportunity to sit before you as the nominee as assistant secretary for public and indian housing. I am honored to be here and I look forward to partnering with all of you to ensure that low income americans have access to decent, safe, and affordable housing and are put towards a path of self sufficiently. I would like to thank president trump and sec.
▶ 0:29:58Mr. Hobbs: Scott turner for their nomination and confidence for me to return to the office in its most senior role. I would like to expend -- extend my gratitude to my former boss, chairman scott for the opportunity to work as part of his staff. As the current assistant deputy, I would like to also express my appreciation to the entire staff who conduct themselves with professionalism and work tirelessly to improve programs.
▶ 0:30:25Mr. Hobbs: Last but not least I would like to thank my lovely fiancé, my parents, my brother and all of my friends who are here today offering unwavering support through this process and my career in public service. Growing up in a small town in ohio, my family and still the values of hard work, faith and service to others.
▶ 0:30:47Mr. Hobbs: I remember my first job helping dale halen -- a in the summer, going to sunday school and doing regular community service projects. Growing up eyewitness poverty and some half -- and how some of our best intended welfare program stifled a work ethic and family formation of some of our peers. My upbringing ignited a passion for public service and a drive to improve the social safety net and help low income americans on the path to self-sufficiency.
▶ 0:31:16Mr. Hobbs: I on my second tour of duty -- I am on my second tour of duty. I served as a senior divisor and drove the development and implementation of several policies including the expansion of the moving to work demonstration program and the effort to reposition public housing to a more sustainable platform.
▶ 0:31:37Mr. Hobbs: Later, I served on the domestic policy council as a special assistant to the president who was the lead on affordable housing, economic development, welfare and homelessness. This is where I first met and worked with sec. Scott turner on the white house opportunity and revitalization counsel and implementing regulations. I have been blessed to work as a congressional staffer in the house and senate.
▶ 0:32:04Mr. Hobbs: While on staffer chairman jason smith, I work focused on policies that promoted work, self-sufficiency and tribal sovereignty. At the committee, I helped draft and pass several pieces of bipartisan legislation to strengthen work requirements for welfare and expanded tribal sovereignty. While serving now chairman scott, our work focused on his opportunity agenda to uplift millions of americans.
▶ 0:32:33Mr. Hobbs: My policy dedication and background in housing, welfare reform, homelessness, older americans, persons with disabilities and tribal affairs in the executive and legislative branch have prepared me well to serve as the next assistant secretary of public entity and housing. I have made it a priority to get outside of the beltway and hear from stakeholders.
▶ 0:32:55Mr. Hobbs: I have met with tribes, residents, staff, and public housing authorities including massachusetts, south and north carolina, ohio, new jersey, alabama, connecticut, new york, alaska, and the district of columbia. I have seen and heard heartwarming and heartbreaking stories.
▶ 0:33:20Mr. Hobbs: Heartwarming stories of a residents who moved from being a resident to the deputy director of a housing authority and heartbreaking stories of a resident who lived her entire life in deteriorating public housing. From birth to her senior years. If confirmed I commit to you that I will work tirelessly to ensure we dramatically increase the number of heartwarming stories and put an end to the heartbreaking ones.
▶ 0:33:46Mr. Hobbs: I will do everything I can to execute secretary turner's vision to ensure that our housing programs are a trampoline on the path to self-sufficiency, address the deteriorating conditions of public housing and strengthen oversight and accountability. Thank you chairman, ranking member and distinguished members of the committee, I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:08Chair Scott: Thank you. Next will be Mr. kurtz.
▶ 0:34:13Mr. Kurtz: Chairman scott, ranking member and members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am honored and humbled by president trump's confidence in nominating me to be the assistant secretary for the secretary -- for the department of housing and urban development.
▶ 0:34:40Mr. Kurtz: I am energized and encouraged by the prospect of joining this team should I be confirmed to this position. I would like to thank those who have been behind me every step of my life in georgia to athens to done woody to washington, D.C.. I have been blessed to those supporting those who have seen the best in me. For that I am forever grateful. Among the friends, families and colleagues none are more important than my parents. My father and best friend, and my mother and hero.
▶ 0:35:11Mr. Kurtz: There are no words to capture the love you have given me and my things will never be enough. They raised me in a working-class home in georgia and taught me to love this country and strive to serve it. I am the first member of my family to graduate college and I came to the realization that local government is 1 -- is where one can affect their communities most immediately.
▶ 0:35:36Mr. Kurtz: I served local governments in georgia in the field of community development, first and done woody a suburb of metro atlanta and as the director of community development and growth -- grovetown. I worked with citizens and implemented reforms to drive their communities towards their vision. These opportunities have taught me several valuable lessons about development.
▶ 0:36:02Mr. Kurtz: First and while it is cliché, every community is different and there is nothing more intimate and personal to the community than the nature of its housing stock. My home directly borders the city of augusta, and the visions that the citizens have are almost polar opposites. This is to say nothing about the differences between those communities in metro atlanta and across the vast nation. Second, government regulation at the smallest levels as a way of stifling development.
▶ 0:36:33Mr. Kurtz: Many builders who wanted nothing more to add affordable homes to their communities have a story to tell about me as a local government serve it having to shepherd them through the endless cop -- costly hoops to do so. I've spent hours rewriting europe -- ill-conceived sign regulations and owner history ordinances and maneuvering the public process to get them adopted. This leads to a simple result, less affordable homes for hard-working americans.
▶ 0:37:02Mr. Kurtz: The issue is the position that we address it as community development, disaster relief and homelessness which manifest locally and are sold locally. Misplaced federal regulation will only magnify the challenges felt at the local level. The department of housing and urban development can empower localities to solve these issues, but the current state of affairs make it clear that old strategies have not worked. In the previous administration housing prices skyrocketed.
▶ 0:37:34Mr. Kurtz: I watched it firsthand in georgia as new developments to the entry price off of their signs because they could not keep up with inflation. Despite the budget nearly doubling over the previous four years we saw a record number of homeless americans reported released in january of this year. For the money it distributes, the office of community planning and development can be a catalyst for real change at the ground level.
▶ 0:38:03Mr. Kurtz: This capacity has been hampered by burdensome regulation and outdated performance metrics. I echo terry secretary turner's pledge to make resources more efficient and moving with the urgency towards the outcomes we desire. President trump has made clear that we need to lower the price of housing in this nation and we need to decrease the number of homes. These homes will not be realized in D.C.
▶ 0:38:31Mr. Kurtz: But in real america through the private, public, and nonprofit partners who will not affect -- except failure in their own backyard. I look forward to doing the hard work necessary to ensure that we create strong, sustainable and inclusive communities and quality affordable homes for all. Thank you for your consideration of my nomination and I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:38:56Chair Scott: Thank you. Dr. miron, you can proceed.
▶ 0:39:01Dr. Miran: Thank you. It is a great privilege to sit before you all today, although back in february I did not imagine I would be back so soon. I am honored to be nominated. As the 32nd chairman of the council of economic advisers, I have advised on physical and regulatory policies designed to achieve full employment and stable prices.
▶ 0:39:28Dr. Miran: These goals are declared in the employment act of 1946 mirroring the mandates of the federal reserve. The responsibilities to advance america's economic prosperity are further developed in an act from 1978. The two organizations share common goals but enjoy different means. I have been studying and writing about monetary policy for two decades beginning with my research at harvard.
▶ 0:39:57Dr. Miran: I am thankful to have been advised by marty feldstein. For the majority of my career I was in public markets, interest rates and currencies. I learned that a substantial sway that monetary policy and market structure hold over the price and availability of credit. Those costs are not a wall street phenomenon. Purchasing a car or home are major milestones in pursuit of the american dream.
▶ 0:40:23Dr. Miran: Affordability and interest rates affect decisions to have children or start a business. The flow of liquidity is essential and by extension global capital markets. The role in safeguarding these is of paramount employment -- importance. In my view, the most important part of the central bank is to prevent inflation in depressions.
▶ 0:40:46Dr. Miran: Given the central bank's outsized role in the economy it is no -- it is not surprised that outsiders have opined on its decisions. If confirmed I plan to carry out my role pursuant to the mandates as assigned by commoners -- congress. The opinions and decisions will be based on my analysis and what is best for its long-term stupid say. This is an independent group with a monumental cast -- task and I plan to serve the american people to the best of my ability.
▶ 0:41:16Dr. Miran: The fed's operations expand well beyond the scope. Managing financial system liquidity is complex. The fed oversees the most important global financial institutions and sets varying prices for borrowers and lenders including other central banks. The ultimate composition is an open-ended question. Effective monetary policy is critical to the functioning of the economy, the preservation of markets and the prosperity of our nation.
▶ 0:41:45Dr. Miran: Congress wisely tasks the fed with pursuing price stability, maximum employment and moderate long-term interest rates. I will transparency -- transparently and honestly work towards that with the goal of a stable economy. Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:42:02Chair Scott: Thank you.
▶ 0:42:06Mr. Pilkerton: Chairman scott, ranking member and distinguished members of the committee, it is an honor to be nominated for this role and a privilege to be before you today. I would like to thank president trump and secretary bessent for this opportunity and also my parents. I am happy to be joined by friends and family including my sister, her husband, and my wife.
▶ 0:42:34Mr. Pilkerton: Who has a small business bakery in our small town home where I serve in the U.S. coast guard exhilarated. The role of the assistant secretary for investment security is critical to both the national security and economic growth of our country. As president trump sec.
▶ 0:42:51Mr. Pilkerton: Bessent have made it clear, america is open for business but we have to make sure that it does not jeopardize the country's safety or advance any malicious adversaries. I hold a law degree and a masters in public affairs with a concentration of international economics as well as university certificates in artificial intelligence and machine learning.
▶ 0:43:19Mr. Pilkerton: I have taught enterprise risk management at lawn business schools and served as a fulbright teaching scholar overseas. Among my professional roles, my career began clerking at the doj's organized crime and racketeering section and office of international affairs criminal division as well as international narcotics and law enforcement.
▶ 0:43:41Mr. Pilkerton: I served as a narcotics and money laundering prosecutor in new york city, working closely with the brave men and women of the nypd, fbi, dea and a host of other federal agencies and joint terrorism and intelligence taskforces including through the terrorist acts of 9/11. I also worked at the U.S.
▶ 0:44:04Mr. Pilkerton: Security and exchange commission investigating domestic and international businesses along with other legal and global compliance roles in the financial services arena including foreign regulatory analysis, corporate due diligence and geopolitical risk evaluation. I also served at the U.S. small business administration as its general counsel and acting administrator.
▶ 0:44:27Mr. Pilkerton: It was an honor to support so many entrepreneurs including in areas such as dod procurement, supply chain infrastructure, cyber security protocols and the development of critical national security technologies through the agency's small business innovation technology transfer and technology programs.
▶ 0:44:50Mr. Pilkerton: As the executive director as the opportunity now initiative in 2020, I worked with state and local leaders and assisted in the implementation of several of the bipartisan covid era economic programs. I have been an executive at the leading community development financial institution, helping to scale underserved small businesses across our country and have been the principal deputy general counsel at the treasury department, supporting core domestic and international
▶ 0:45:21Mr. Pilkerton: Programs including ongoing engagement with the intelligence and law enforcement communities on global threat assessments and security matters. This is a critical time for our nation, economic growth is a priority, and international investment will play a significant role by creating jobs, strengthening manufacturing and advancing technologies that will propel america forward. That said, vigilance on how foreign investment is introduced is critical.
▶ 0:45:51Mr. Pilkerton: As our adversaries will continue to be relentless in efforts to undermine our country's assets, technological competencies and private data. There can be no compromise of american talent and treasure. If given the opportunity to be confirmed, I will be resolute and commit to work closely with this committee to achieve this goal.
▶ 0:46:13Mr. Pilkerton: Even my background and experience, I believe that I am well-positioned to execute the responsibilities of this role alongside the committed career professionals at the treasury department. My thanks to all of you for your consideration and I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:46:27Chair Scott: Thank you.
▶ 0:46:30Mr. Burke: Thank you. Chairman scott, ranking member moran and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am humbled and grateful to serve as the assistant secretary of the treasury. I thank president trump for offering me this opportunity and secretary bessent for his confidence and support.
▶ 0:46:55Mr. Burke: I would also like to acknowledge the love and encouragement of my wife and my sons who unfortunately could not here today. They recognize the value of service to our country and the sacrifice that that often entails. I want to thank my parents and my brother, who is here today. For instilling that value in me.
▶ 0:47:17Mr. Burke: Many other family, friends, and colleagues including three of my best friends who traveled from georgia to be here offer their support and confidence in what I bring to the role. I am deeply grateful to all of them. Mr. chairman, the office I am nominated to lead celebrated its 20th anniversary. Throughout its history this office has played a key role in combating threats to national security and the integrity of the financial system.
▶ 0:47:46Mr. Burke: Financial measures including sanctions are important tools in the U.S. arsenal to respond to geopolitical challenges and the threats to the safety of the american people and the economy. Thanks to the treasury's work, the domestic and international systems and partnered governments to combat these threats have grown stronger.
▶ 0:48:07Mr. Burke: The treasury plays a critical role in setting policy and strategy to directly combat finance, protect the taggart -- the integrity of the financial system and support foreign policy objectives. If confirmed for the role, it would be a privilege for me to return to lead this office where I previously served as a civil servant in 2008 through 2012.
▶ 0:48:31Mr. Burke: It was during this time that I developed a deep understanding of the intersection between illicit finance and national security. For example, I played a role in the efforts to use sanctions to combat iran's access to the financial system and I supported our policy efforts to strengthen regulatory frameworks are anti-money laundering and counterterrorist financing. Policy is only half of the story.
▶ 0:48:56Mr. Burke: Since leaving treasury I have been on the front lines of financial warfare, managing the implementations of sanctions. Working in industry, I observed rapid geopolitical shifts and constantly evolving financial crime risks. As a compliance officer, I experienced the challenges of implementing financial crime policies and regulations across many countries with divergent and conflicting requirements.
▶ 0:49:27Mr. Burke: Our U.S. businesses navigating these complexities, a constantly changing environment is challenging. Finance is inseparable from technology and this has given rise to supply chains where criminals can hide their identities, obscure the purpose of their business, send funds instantaneously and quickly adapt. The treasury department has matched this pace of innovation and change in several ways.
▶ 0:49:55Mr. Burke: First, it must identify new vulnerabilities in the financial ecosystem before they are exploited. Second, it must promote a risk-based regime allied with 21st century risks, is effective and supports global competitiveness. Third, sanctions and other financial measures should have a clear objective coupled with clear messaging on expectations for implementation and compliance.
▶ 0:50:23Mr. Burke: Fourth, encourage and incentivize innovative capabilities through constructive engagement without fear of technical noncompliance. There is an entire profession within the financial services industry dedicated to combating financial crime. These will be the key is to prefer victims to preserving the past efforts and continuing missions into continuing innovation and economic growth.
▶ 0:50:49Mr. Burke: If confirmed I will strive to bring practical insights and a clear vision to support this important work to protect the united states and integrity of our financial system. I would like to thank the committee and I will be honored to have your vote and return to the treasury to support this critical mission.
▶ 0:51:07Chair Scott: We will now go into the q&a and I will hold all of us to five minutes because we have a lot to get through. Please be sensitive to the clock. Let me start with you. We had a conversation and we had a lot to talk about the conversation about the fed. It needs to be clear on its independence.
▶ 0:51:37Chair Scott: You share president trump's vision for what it takes to move the economy forward, but I want to make sure that the answers that you gave talking is still the answers you have now as it relates to your role as a governor of the fed and not --
▶ 0:51:57Dr. Miran: Thank you for the opportunity to discuss these issues with you on the phone prior to the hearing. I could not be more in agreements that independence is of paramount importance for the economy and the long-run stewardship of the country. All of those are completely I am in complete accord with. The president nominated me because I have policy views that I suppose that he liked.
▶ 0:52:28Dr. Miran: If I am confirmed, I will act independently as the federal reserve always does based on my own personal analysis of economic data and the effects of economic policies upon the economy and act based on my judgment of the best economic policy possible. That said I am always happy to hear views from every source possible and it is important to hear a variety to make sure the I think the things that I think and to challenge my views and hearing a variety is helpful.
▶ 0:52:58Chair Scott: One of the things like -- I like about you is that you have been clear and honest with me and I appreciate that a lot. I do want to reinforce it because that is independence and that is something paramount for our country and economy. That being said, the current concept of the fed especially under michael barr, I had real cherub -- challenges.
▶ 0:53:26Chair Scott: I could not figure out that every time I heard jay powell talk that he said the amount of reserves we had was about right but it kept going up every year. My question is really about the basel three and the racial reform -- and the reform and the things he will take.
▶ 0:53:50Chair Scott: Can you describe how we are looked at holistically so we are not encouraged to keep capital on the sidelines which limits access to credit for americans. We are in a homeowner crisis and more small businesses need access to capital. How do you tackle that?
▶ 0:54:07Dr. Miran: Thank you. I agree -- I share some of your concerns around basel 3 and the regulations entailed. I think there needs to be a fulsome process about the costs as well and the consequences of those regulations. Into the economy and exactly a wrong -- along the lines we were discussing.
▶ 0:54:34Dr. Miran: Our small business is able to get credit and will they be able to get it? I think it is time for a fulsome examination of the process to think about it going forward and I am happy to work on that.
▶ 0:54:51Chair Scott: I will finish with you, the more incentives in place for banks to leave more capitals on the sidelines and whatever the incentive is, perhaps it is challenging to small business owners and for those first-time homebuyers and I will leave it there. Mr. hobbs, your work on opportunity zones is something I celebrate and have a great respect for.
▶ 0:55:18Chair Scott: Walk me through the lessons that you learned working at opportunity zones and what that means for our economy and for providing more apartments, more housing and frankly diversity in the housing space which is important as we see the first in four decades with the average age being 48.
▶ 0:55:43Mr. Hobbs: It is a pleasure to be here. I worked on implementing regulations for the tax incentive and is part of the white house opportunity and revitalization counsel. There we targeted, streamlined and coordinated 150 different federal programs and two opportunity zones which drove public and private investment and it is vitally important. My hometown has an opportunity zone and it has lifted one million people out of poverty.
▶ 0:56:14Chair Scott: Thank you. With six seconds to spare. I appreciate that.
▶ 0:56:19Sen. Warren: Mr. chairman, I agree with you. I think the independence of the fed is absolutely paramount, but we cannot ignore the elephant in the room, that president trump has launched an all-out assault on the independence of the federal reserve. Dr.
▶ 0:56:37Sen. Warren: Miron has said that "to pretend that one can easily shift between highly political and allegedly nonpolitical roles without letting political biases in foreign policy" is at best naïve and -- is at worst sinister. So, that is what you are about to do. Go from a highly political role to a nonpolitical role.
▶ 0:57:05Sen. Warren: And since you describe how you will be informed by your political biases, I think the american people have a right to understand how independent you are or are not. Let us measure that. Let us start with an easy question to show that you have some independence from the president. Yes or no. Did donald trump lose the 2020 presidential election?
▶ 0:57:32Chair Scott: Microphone on, please.
▶ 0:57:35Sen. Warren: And the chair is going to be tough on time. Yes or no. Did donald trump lose the 2020 presidential election.
▶ 0:57:43Dr. Miran: Thank you. Joe biden was certified by congress as the president of the united states.
▶ 0:57:51Sen. Warren: So did donald trump lose the election?
▶ 0:57:54Dr. Miran: As I said joe biden was certified.
▶ 0:57:57Sen. Warren: Can you say the words donald trump lost the election and are you independent enough to say that. All right. So that was one. Let us try another. Let me ask you another quick question, the federal reserve relies on accurate and unbiased data including by the bureau of labor statistics.
▶ 0:58:19Sen. Warren: President trump recently filed -- fired the commissioner alleging that she "faked the jobs numbers before the election to try and boost kamala's chances of victory." do you agree that they published faked numbers to manipulate the outcome of the 2024 presidential election?
▶ 0:58:38Dr. Miran: Thank you. Look, the data quality from the bureau --
▶ 0:58:43Sen. Warren: It is not a question about the data quality. Did as president trump said, the bls publish fake numbers to manipulate the outcome of the 2024 presidential election. This is what president trump said, is he right. You are the head of the council of economic advisors.
▶ 0:59:04Dr. Miran: The data on various measures have deteriorated in quality over time.
▶ 0:59:10Sen. Warren: I understand you have questions about the data quality but I want to remind you that when the data seem to show that his jobs numbers were doing well, I did not hear you say a single word about problems with data quality. The only time you started questioning data quality was when the numbers showed that his economy was headed in the wrong direction. Let me ask you a question for a third time, we want to understand your independence.
▶ 0:59:40Sen. Warren: Donald trump stated that the bls faked the job numbers before the election to try to boost kamal a's chances of victory.
▶ 0:59:52Dr. Miran: They did not take corrective action --
▶ 0:59:56Chair Scott: Do you work --
▶ 0:59:57Sen. Warren: Do you agree with the statement.
▶ 1:00:00Dr. Miran: I believe that they were complacently allowing the data.
▶ 1:00:04Sen. Warren: Do you have any evidence?
▶ 1:00:06Dr. Miran: As I said the data has deteriorated in quality.
▶ 1:00:10Sen. Warren: In other words, just two straightforward questions about your independence and you have blown both of them. Let us shift to the inflation caused by the president's economic policies which you have had a key role in designing. You have claimed that consumers thus far have not seen any material macroeconomic increase from tariffs at all. Your statement. The numbers do not back you up.
▶ 1:00:38Sen. Warren: Since january the cost of groceries and utilities and housing is up. The cost of back-to-school shoes is up with backpacks and baby strollers up. The data says that costs for basic necessities are going up. It is not just the reported numbers. Fed governor waller, who president trump appointed, private-sector forecasters, small businesses and families are all telling us that the costs are up.
▶ 1:01:08Sen. Warren: Do you think those families and data experts are lying?
▶ 1:01:11Dr. Miran: Thank you for the question. I believe your question is conflating relative price increases with inflation. There has been no detectable increase in price level as a result of tariffs.
▶ 1:01:24Sen. Warren: Dr. miron, you have made clear that you will do or say whatever donald trump wants you to do and that might work in a political position but it takes and ax to fed independence and will like -- make life far more expensive for american families. I apologize for going over.
▶ 1:01:44Chair Scott: Senator rounds.
▶ 1:01:47Sen. Rounds: Dr. miron, I appreciated the opportunity to visit with you and your -- in my office. I will be the third member in a row to recognize and to reinforce our need for a very independent federal reserve board and I actually enjoyed our discussion.
▶ 1:02:09Sen. Rounds: And the fact that you clearly laid out for me the understanding that you had a different role as an independent member of the board and that your independence was a very important to you. Let me work my way back through this because sometimes when we are trying to get all of our questions in, any of our members can sometimes really want to get a yes or no answer where yes or no answers do not work.
▶ 1:02:39Sen. Rounds: Let me talk about some of the thing specifically to the board itself. Do you see a difference between the role you would play as the chairman of the board of economic advisers to the president versus being an independent member of the board of the federal reserve?
▶ 1:02:54Dr. Miran: Thank you. And yes, I was grateful for the opportunity to sit down with you and I enjoy that discussion. There is a night and day difference. As a chairman for the council of economic advisors, someone is part of a political administration. The federal reserve is an independent agency whose independence is critical. And, the responsibilities of the jobs are very different.
▶ 1:03:25Dr. Miran: If confirmed I will behave in an independent matter based on my own analysis and economic data and inflation and employment and effects of the independent quality and act based on those valuations.
▶ 1:03:38Sen. Rounds: Would you say that it is fair for the president of the united states to lobby the federal reserve in terms of moving things in a direction for things he believes could move the economy in a direction that improves the life of the american people?
▶ 1:03:52Dr. Miran: As I said before, I think it is really important in economics as in many things to hear a wide variety of views because you have to challenge your own views and make sure that what you think is right. The best way to do that is to hear a whole variety of opposing views and interrogate your own position.
▶ 1:04:15Dr. Miran: I will always be happy to hear the opinions on monetary policy of everyone who has an opinion so I can help evaluate whether my position is the correct position and if I should believe in the things I believe.
▶ 1:04:26Sen. Rounds: That would include allowing the president to lobby, fair enough, nothing wrong with the president lobbying?
▶ 1:04:34Dr. Miran: The president is entitled to a view as it is everyone else. And I welcome everyone sharing their views.
▶ 1:04:41Sen. Rounds: Didn't as part of your role as chairman of the board of economic advisors, wasn't part of that to carry the message that you believed was appropriate to improve the quality of life for americans by approving -- improving the economy, and would it be reasonable that you have a similar point of view that the president dead, otherwise, why would he be working with you and why would you be working with him?
▶ 1:05:07Dr. Miran: Thank you. As the council of economic advisers is tasked by the congress with advising the president on appropriate fiscal and monetary policy to achieve prosperity of the american economy. The president selects people based on his valuation of their qualifications and policies. I assume that he nominated me to the previous position because he likes my policies.
▶ 1:05:34Sen. Rounds: You are asked by the ranking member a number of questions in pretty fast order. I want to give you an opportunity, anything in particular that you would like to clarify or make more clear with regard to any of the comments. I will give you a few seconds before I move on. Anything that you would like to clarify or correct?
▶ 1:05:56Dr. Miran: I do think that independence in the central bank is of critical importance. That is why I look back at recent behavior and see things like climate being worked into the federal reserve policy agenda, it strikes me as politicized asian of elements of the federal reserve that are not politicized. And if I am confirmed, I will push back against moving from court mandates.
▶ 1:06:24Sen. Rounds: I just want to just put this for the record, I want to thank you for coming to meet with me in my office in july. I think you are a very accomplished public servant. And I believe that you are very qualified for this position. I want to thank you for your willingness to work with me to get the pass act. And I look forward to working with you to get that through and protect our military installations from foreign observation. Thank you.
▶ 1:06:56Sen. Rounds: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:06:56Chair Scott: Senator reed.
▶ 1:06:59Sen. Reed: For the record, I would just like to say that president trump's efforts to strong-arm the federal reserve have been simply deplorable and they threaten to undermine confidence in our economy and we are seeing that ebb every day.
▶ 1:07:17Sen. Reed: In contrast, I would note that when president clinton, obama, and biden came into office and had the chance to nominate federal chairs, they all chose to retain those picked by their republican predecessors. That is an example of the bipartisanship and independence that previous presidents have extended. This president has not done that. You had a discussion with the ranking member.
▶ 1:07:46Sen. Reed: You have written on the subject of partisanship that "the revolving door between the fed and the executive branch brings politics into federal policymaking." you wrote "leadership that was traditionally decided as democratic have been replaced by highly qualified but highly political personnel." so what is your current job now?
▶ 1:08:16Dr. Miran: Thank you for the question.
▶ 1:08:18Sen. Reed: What is your current job?
▶ 1:08:20Dr. Miran: The chairman of the council of economic advisors.
▶ 1:08:24Sen. Reed: In the white house. So, you are basically living proof of the criticism that you arguing against in the federal reserve board. You are a political partisan who works in the white house who might be bright, but is ideologically asked -- predisposed the politics of donald trump.
▶ 1:08:45Dr. Miran: As I said, I view the act of deciding that the federal reserve and state institution to take on climate change as a highly political non-technocratic act. If I am confirmed, I will make it my goal to keep the federal reserve to its core missions.
▶ 1:09:06Sen. Reed: That is an interesting concept, because in my capacity for national concert -- national security, we are extremely vulnerable to climate change. So anybody who believes that climate change is mythical is essentially posturing.
▶ 1:09:35Sen. Reed: Now, you are a part of the council of economic advisers. If confirmed will you resign?
▶ 1:09:40Dr. Miran: Thank you. I have received advice from the council that what is required is an unpaid leave of absence from the council of economic advisers. Considering the term for which I am nominated is a little bit more than four months, that is what I would be taking. As long as that is the advice of counsel, I will follow the law.
▶ 1:10:00Sen. Reed: Your independence has already been seriously compromised by your statement. You are going to be technically employee of the president of the united states in an independent board of the federal reserve? That is ridiculous. You also said that a federal reserve board member should reframe from involvement for four years after he leaves office with any executive branch. Are you committed to that also?
▶ 1:10:26Dr. Miran: Look, I am committed to the federal reserve independence and high have proposed a suite of reforms through the governance of the federal reserve. That was a package deal and a system of checks and balances designed to defuse political power and isolate the fed. It would be important -- it would be inappropriate to take one check or balance.
▶ 1:10:49Sen. Reed: So the answer is no. You're going to be consistently an employee to the president of the united states on leave. You could call you up as a president and say here, I want you to do this. Well, I guess you have to do it because you are employed. That is ridiculous. Finally.
▶ 1:11:10Sen. Reed: You noted last year "that the firing for cause protections under the law were inappropriate" and you recommended that congress remove those protections.
▶ 1:11:23Sen. Reed: You went on to recommend that " to provide constitutional legitimacy -- legitimacy if and when the president is allowed to fire governors at will, the president should voluntarily announce that he should refrain from removing any incumbent board leaders for their terms." if the court's grant president trump to fire federal governors for any reason at any time, will you commit to advising the president publicly to refrain from exercising this authority,
▶ 1:11:55Sen. Reed: Consistent with your recommendations in 2024.
▶ 1:11:56Dr. Miran: As I said, that proposal was a package deal. It was a suite of checks and balances and it is highly inappropriate to take it out from the context of the package. They worked between the congress, executive, and judiciary because they work in conjunction and prevent power from being concentrated.
▶ 1:12:17Sen. Reed: The answer is no and you will cooperate if he tries to eliminate a member of the federal reserve board. Thank you very much.
▶ 1:12:25Chair Scott: Senator kennedy.
▶ 1:12:32Sen. Kennedy: Do presidents, any president generally appoint their enemies?
▶ 1:12:43Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator for the question.
▶ 1:12:47Sen. Kennedy: It just takes up time. Don't thank me.
▶ 1:12:51Dr. Miran: I believe when they nominate them.
▶ 1:12:53Sen. Kennedy: Do they generally appoint their enemies.
▶ 1:12:56Dr. Miran: They do not believe they are.
▶ 1:12:58Sen. Kennedy: Do presidents any presidents, generally appoint people that they agree with on social and economic policy.
▶ 1:13:08Dr. Miran: I believe they appoint people --
▶ 1:13:11Sen. Kennedy: That is a yes. Because we live in the real world.
▶ 1:13:15Dr. Miran: Yes.
▶ 1:13:18Sen. Kennedy: Are you personally responsible for everything president trump says?
▶ 1:13:23Dr. Miran: No, --
▶ 1:13:26Sen. Kennedy: Will forward to president trump says something as president of the united states, does he call you up and say I am about to say this and I want your approval? Does he do that?
▶ 1:13:37Dr. Miran: Never.
▶ 1:13:38Sen. Kennedy: After the president says something, does he call you up and say was that ok and are you ok with this?
▶ 1:13:46Dr. Miran: I have an advisory role.
▶ 1:13:49Sen. Kennedy: Sometimes, intelligent adults and reasonable people disagree. Is that true?
▶ 1:13:56Dr. Miran: Very often.
▶ 1:13:58Sen. Kennedy: Is it part of your job description when you disagree with something that the president says to call a press conference and say he is wrong about this and let me explain to you why? Is that part of your job description?
▶ 1:14:14Dr. Miran: No.
▶ 1:14:15Sen. Kennedy: Is that the job description of any aid?
▶ 1:14:21Dr. Miran: No.
▶ 1:14:22Sen. Kennedy: How about for president obama?
▶ 1:14:25Dr. Miran: C1
▶ 1:14:32Senator Kennedy: We don't live in lala land, do we? Do we?
▶ 1:14:38Dr. Miran: No.
▶ 1:14:40Senator Kennedy: Monetary policy is important. Fiscal policy is important, isn't it?
▶ 1:14:49Dr. Miran: Fiscal policy is extremely important. I don't care how low the federal reserve lowers interest rates. If the united states congress is profligate in its spending, if it spends money like it is pine water, if it runs up $37 trillion in debt and deficit spends to the tune of 7% every year, that also has an impact on
▶ 1:15:19Dr. Miran: Employment and economic growth.
▶ 1:15:22Dr. Miran: Absolutely and I think people often make the mistake by looking solely at the federal reserve policy.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Kennedy: In fact, the federal reserve can lower rates all you want but it doesn't necessarily mean you're -- long rates are going to go down, does it?
▶ 1:15:46Dr. Miran: Not necessarily.
▶ 1:15:48Sen. Kennedy: Right. The bond market counts too, doesn't it. If the bond market thinks those rates are on the horizon, they will keep going up.
▶ 1:16:09Dr. Miran: The federal reserve does not control the long end of the yield curve.
▶ 1:16:13Sen. Kennedy: So what congress does matters?
▶ 1:16:16Dr. Miran: Hugely.
▶ 1:16:19Sen. Kennedy: My good friend senator warren says you were donald trump's puppet. Are you donald trump's puppet?
▶ 1:16:27Dr. Miran: Not at all, and very independently minded. Shown by my consensus views. I believe I will continue to be as independent in my thinking process if confirmed.
▶ 1:16:42Sen. Kennedy: We are going to hold you to that, future governor. You need to call them like you see them. There are politicians in washington, you can't stop them, but we need a monetary plan that was put together by something other than vodka and darts.
▶ 1:17:17Sen. Kennedy: And that is what we have the federal reserve for. I'm not saying they are always wrong. Even a blind chicken finds a meal every now and then. You've got to call them like you see them and ignore. Nothing wrong with people giving their vice, but more the politicians. Will you give me that commitment?
▶ 1:17:43Dr. Miran: I do commit to that.
▶ 1:17:45Sen. Kennedy: Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:17:54Chair Scott: Thank you. Senator kim.
▶ 1:17:59Senator Kim: If you are confirmed, you are not going to resign from your current session of the white house?
▶ 1:18:06Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator. I've been advised by counsel that the legal approach is to take a leave of absence from the council of economic advisers, cease my activities, and of counsel advises me otherwise I will follow the law.
▶ 1:18:27Sen. Kim: I guess I want to ask you why did counsel advise you in that way? You have every right to say no, I want to resign?
▶ 1:18:37Dr. Miran: I'm not a lawyer.
▶ 1:18:39Sen. Kim: You can determine your own career, you know that, right?
▶ 1:18:43Dr. Miran: Yes, I know that.
▶ 1:18:46Sen. Kim: You want to go back to the council of economic advisers after this term, Dr. miran: is that correct?
▶ 1:18:53Dr. Miran: I don't know what will happen. The term I've been nominated for is 4.5 months. If I'm confirmed for longer term and a handful of months I would absolutely resign.
▶ 1:19:03Sen. Kim: So I guess you try to excuse this by saying this is because the whole package of reforms wasn't adopted. I want to read your own words back to you every few said short-circuiting the revolving door between the fed and the executive branch is critical to reducing the incentives for officials to act in the short-term political interest of the president. Do you still agree with that statement? Dr. miran: thank you, senator. As I said before --
▶ 1:19:33Sen. Kim: I understand your excuse on that front but do you agree with the statement I just read back to you?
▶ 1:19:39Dr. Miran: I think considerations like that need to be taken in context of an overall package of reforms and not looked at in isolation.
▶ 1:19:47Sen. Kim: Ok. I think this very clearly shows that the reason we don't want actions like what is happening before us is because you could very well be continuing to act in a way that is in the political interests of the president because you know he is going to be your future boss again at the white house.
▶ 1:20:09Sen. Kim: I'm just trying to think about why do you even want this job for four months if you are just hedging your bets and just continuing to hold your position at the white house? I want to continue long on a little bit here because he said something and want to dig into, you said excessive control by elected political actors like the president interferes in good policy and results in bad economic outcomes. Is that something you said?
▶ 1:20:36Dr. Miran: Senator, I believe that political interference in monetary policy, making decisions can erode the outcomes and that is important for the federal reserve to be insulated from the federal cycle.
▶ 1:20:52Sen. Kim: Ok, insulated from the political cycle. What is excessive control?
▶ 1:20:57Dr. Miran: Well, I don't have a precise formal definition of that. I will walk you through a couple of things. You are saying you would like to clarify that members serve at the will of the U.S. president.
▶ 1:21:12Dr. Miran: Senator, I believe that members can be removed for cause.
▶ 1:21:22Sen. Kim: I'm just looking at your list of reforms that you like and it sounded like you were saying clarify that the members serve as the will -- at the will of the president. Would it be appropriate for new president to come in, get rid of everybody on the board and put in an entirely new series of appointments at the beginning of each presidency?
▶ 1:21:45Dr. Miran: You are referring to the reform proposal, not to current law? The reform proposal was a package deal with a series of checks and balances but that was one check and there are other balances and checks that would defuse power throughout the reserve system. That is why we refer to it as a form of monetary federalism.
▶ 1:22:05Sen. Kim: You said political independence is inherently undemocratic. Can you explain that?
▶ 1:22:11Dr. Miran: If you had a federal reserve that was entirely, completely independent with no ability for a president to appoint -- president to appoint officials, no ability to provide advice and consent I think that would be profoundly undemocratic.
▶ 1:22:42Sen. Kim: Has anyone in the administration asked you to commit formally or informally to lowering interest rates?
▶ 1:22:49Dr. Miran: No.
▶ 1:22:50Sen. Kim: With that, I yield back.
▶ 1:22:53Chair Scott: Thank you. Senator ricketts.
▶ 1:22:58Senator Ricketts: Thank you, Mr. chairman and ranking member and thank you to our panelists, our nominee is and your willingness to serve our great nation. The ranking member was talking about inflation. I might know that on labor day, the average price of gas was $3.15 a gallon, the lowest it has been since 2020 and people in my state and to drive a lot.
▶ 1:23:27Senator Ricketts: To me that says the president's policies of unleashing american energy are working. Another important question in nebraska is ethanol. The last time I filled up with ethanol it saved me $.45 a gallon versus the regular 89. Everybody can fill up on ethanol. It is great for the environment and our farmers and ranchers. You may say wire you talking about that right now?
▶ 1:23:53Senator Ricketts: I'm going to roll into another topic that is of interest, communist china is the threat to america. They want to supplant us as the world superpower. They have made it clear that they will put together every lever of power to undermine our national security. Confronting this requires comprehensive strategy that strengthens our safety, financial systems, secures critical assets and closes loopholes for communist china to seek and exploit things in our system.
▶ 1:24:25Senator Ricketts: One of the things that includes is combating our foreign adversaries' ownership of american agriculture land. In 2010, communist china owned 15,700 20 acres of american farmland. In 2023, communist china owned 277,000 acres of that farmland. That is a threat to our national security. Sometimes that farmland was located by sensitive military installations.
▶ 1:24:55Senator Ricketts: Mr. pilkerton, do you agree that is a threat to national security?
▶ 1:24:59Mr. Pilkerton: Senator, thank you very much for the question. I share your concern. The chinese penetration in agricultural land, real estate, critical technologies is something we all should be very concerned about. If I'm concerned to lead this committee I would looking forward to working with you as well as the members around the table including the observing member of the U.S.
▶ 1:25:28Mr. Pilkerton: Department of agriculture, secretary brooke rollins so I worked with very closely before. I look forward to working with you on these issues.
▶ 1:25:41Sen. Ricketts: I look forward to that. Usda shares the data, it publish the report which flagged incomplete data reporting,
▶ 1:26:12Sen. Ricketts: Process errors and delays. Improving data sharing so the national security risks are flagged immediately. I look forward to working on this issue and more when you are confirmed.
▶ 1:26:39Sen. Ricketts: What poses the greatest risk or threat? Are there other things?
▶ 1:26:48Mr. Pilkerton: Obviously the focus is national security. My priorities are going to be focusing on critical technologies, artificial intelligence, computing, other areas where america must continue to be a leader. Another priority would be covered transactions that should be reported that are not reported.
▶ 1:27:16Mr. Pilkerton: One of the things I want to do if confirmed is sit down with the entire team including the advising group scum of the intelligence community, law enforcement community that plays a role and find out how they can do it to advance that. There is a friend and review.
▶ 1:27:45Mr. Pilkerton: We have to stay vigilant and ensure folks are abiding by the agreements they enter into. I know that it is a bipartisan matter. So having that feedback.
▶ 1:28:05Sen. Ricketts: One other thing I just mention is that processing more efficiently and we can talk about that later.
▶ 1:28:14Chair Scott: Thank you. >> thank you, Mr. chair. Mr. marin, welcome to the committee. I just have a couple of straightforward questions for you which will hopefully be easy to answer, see you currently work in the white house as an economic advisor to the president, correct? >> thank you, senator, that is correct, I do currently work as the chairman of the council of economic advisors.
▶ 1:28:44Sen. Smith: Right, in this role you have had a hands on role in implementing the president's political and policy agenda.
▶ 1:28:53Dr. Miran: That is not correct. The council of economic advisers is a nonstatutory advisor.
▶ 1:29:01Sen. Smith: You have been described as the architect of the trump tariffs and a vocal proponent of the one big beautiful bill so it seems to me you have been part of the agenda. Senator kim referenced a bit ago about the paper you co-authored that argued that short-circuiting the revolving door between the fed and the executive branch is critical to reducing the incentives for officials to act in the short-term political interests of the president.
▶ 1:29:31Sen. Smith: Here's my concern. Given the nature of your current role and your expressed concern in mind for insulating the fed board members from the day-to-day political process I don't understand how your nomination doesn't break the rule you set out yourself. You previously said no one can go from being a high political operative to being politically neutral. I agree with you.
▶ 1:30:05Sen. Smith: When you have taken on a role of advocating, it is very hard to step away from that. I don't know how you could be an exception to that. Last september, you criticized the fed decision to cut rates as the biggest policy mistake in 2021, but now where you stand on that? President trump is in office, you have done a complete 180, I don't understand what your position is on this now and how can we expect you to be unbiased and neutral?
▶ 1:30:34Dr. Miran: Thank you for the question. As I was saying to senator kennedy a few moments ago, I think it is a mistake to focus solely on monetary policy when thinking about inflation and unemployment. I think the full suite of policies affect those outcomes and with the fed ought to do is to be forward-looking and it's expectations of where inflation and employment are going because those of the mandates congress assigned to do it.
▶ 1:31:03Dr. Miran: My understanding of how economics works as a wide variety of policies are quite does inflationary, let me give you one example. The border policy you might not think of as an economic policy but the truth is that if you increase the number of occupants of housing by millions in a relatively short period of time without a dramatic expansion of houses it will put pressure on rents.
▶ 1:31:26Sen. Smith: I'm sorry to interrupt you but I know I just have a little bit of time left. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that the fed has a broad portfolio and it is a complex thing but I'm concerned about the fact that because of the role you had in the trump administration and now the president wants to move you to the fed and we are so concerned about the independence of the fed because of the things president trump has said, I
▶ 1:31:59Sen. Smith: Think we can be pretty clear about what is happening here. Your nomination is getting rushed through because the president is frustrated with the fed for not cutting rates and he wants loyalists on the fed board. That is pretty obvious I think to what is going on here.
▶ 1:32:18Sen. Smith: I think it is important we not lose sight of what is happening and also not lose sight of why the president wants to see rate cuts go down because the economy is in a struggle right now because of the trade war, because of everything else he is doing in this flailing that is happening right now as a result of it. My view here, Mr.
▶ 1:32:40Sen. Smith: Chair, and ranking member, is that it is extremely important for this committee to take a stand against politicizing the fed, that that is the best thing for the long-term and that this is not the right step to take if that is our goal. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:32:59Chair Scott: Thank you, senator. Senator britt.
▶ 1:33:05Senator Britt: Thank you so much, Mr. chair, ranking member. I appreciate your conversation yesterday with me and your commitment to fed independence and taking so much time talking through weston's with me. To all of you, we appreciate you being here. Mr. burke, I want to start with you. It focuses on counterterrorism and illicit financing.
▶ 1:33:38Senator Britt: When you look at what is happening with iran, what happened was moving into the oil regime and we now have an administration that is taking this seriously understanding iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorists and every single dollar they have they used to advance that goal.
▶ 1:34:01Senator Britt: My question is looking at president trump's maximum pressure campaign driving that, I think we have seen real successes but can you speak generally to the seriousness of this and how critical is it that we enforce the sanctions that are on the books to the fullest extent particularly when we talk about the iranian regime?
▶ 1:34:22Mr. Burke: Thank you, senator and I share the concern. I think one way to do that is to understand and as you mentioned president trump has reimplemented the maximum pressure campaign on iran and I know from my previous time a treasury working on of what that actually means, it is a multifaceted approach, not just about imposing new sanctions but it is actually complemented by extensive diplomatic engagement with partners and allies also in
▶ 1:34:54Mr. Burke: The private sector to identify the risks associated with exposure to iran so they can take actions to curtail that activity. We have seen that in the past when there is a maximum pressure campaign.
▶ 1:35:10Mr. Burke: We also saw just this week secretary bessent announce new sanctions on iran and have a video that explained this process and it was very important to complement that maximum pressure that the world understands the united states is intent on targeting actors who continue to support iran's activity and that is what we did. Sec.
▶ 1:35:31Mr. Burke: Bessent made reference to some of those actions in terms of reducing iran's oil revenue and disrupting its ability to move funds and move logistics around the world. If confirmed, I look forward to supporting that.
▶ 1:35:46Sen. Britt: I want to drill down on secondary sanctions. We know where we had lax sanctions for they weren't enforcing them, allowing countries in southeast asia to openly disregard our sanctions policy and sell iranian crude oil to china and we saw it happen.
▶ 1:36:09Sen. Britt: I would argue one of our most effective tools is secondary sanctions to discourage foreign countries and entities from doing business with tehran and I would like to know, what are your thoughts on that and how can we better utilize secondary sanctions available to use them against these nations that attempt to undermine the united states?
▶ 1:36:32Mr. Burke: Thank you, I think it is a very important concept that goes to the multifaceted maximum pressure campaign approach. Secondary sanctions are intended to change behavior. I think when you add that extensive diplomatic engagement which has been used very successfully in the past with the threat, secondary sanctions will be very important.
▶ 1:37:00Sen. Britt: I want to stay on national security and Mr. pilkerton, I'm going to come to you. China is clearly looking to undermine america at every turn. One of the ways I feel like they have done that is buying up american agriculture and farm land. Many of us on this dais particularly on our side has been fighting against bills on legislation to push.
▶ 1:37:25Sen. Britt: This committee continues to be engaged in this realm and the ability to properly review foreign land purchases near sensitive military sites. I can assure you china is not allowing america to buy up land around sensitive military sites in china, right? My question is will you commit to working with us to ensure that we actually are able to move the needle in this regard if confirmed to this role?
▶ 1:37:54Mr. Pilkerton: Senator, thank you very much for the question is I will absolutely commit to working with you and this committee on these really important national security matters. When it comes to farmland, I think sec. Rollins has said food security is national security. We want to remain secure.
▶ 1:38:26Mr. Pilkerton: And also meeting with you and your staff.
▶ 1:38:29Sen. Britt: We need to get this done, time is of the essence.
▶ 1:38:32Chair Scott: Senator cortez masto. Congratulations to all the nominees. I will submit most questions to the record, but Mr. hobbs, let me start with you. I'm very interested in how we increase the affordable supply of housing in indian country. Could you talk a little bit about that and what we do to increase that supply?
▶ 1:38:58Mr. Hobbs: Thank you, senator and thank you for the question, it is a priority of mine, a priority of secretary turner and president trump to engage with our stakeholders in indian country. I recently visited alaska, I've been to wisconsin, and one of the things that we are consistently discussing as how to reduce regulatory burden on tribes.
▶ 1:39:26Mr. Hobbs: A number of them are actually coming into had next week -- hud next week and we will be meeting with them in one of their key topics is looking at some regulations that are overly burdensome and artificially increase the cost of them executing their offerings.
▶ 1:39:46Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you, I look forward to hearing and working with hud so we can prioritize this in indian country and we are working on housing affordable housing there. Mr. miner, let me -- Mr. miran, let me talk to you. I suppose you are being inundated with calls and letters from small business owners. The small business owners say they cannot keep their doors open with prices rising.
▶ 1:40:20Sen. Cortez Masto: These business owners are worried they will have to lay off their employees or somebody already has to stop serving their neighbors. Yet you told me in february and I quote, the economic burden of tariffs imposed by the united states is borne by the country whose exports are tariff. Do you still believe that?
▶ 1:40:44Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator, the theory of incidents which is a very well-established, old literature that is not very controversial, that generally lasts upon --
▶ 1:40:56Sen. Cortez Masto: I don't need an economic theory, I always went through that, I need to know your position, do you still believe what your statement was that the economic burden of tariffs imposed by the united states is borne by the country whose exports are tariff? Do still believe that?
▶ 1:41:13Dr. Miran: In the long run, I 100%. In the short run I have always maintained that there could be volatility.
▶ 1:41:25Sen. Cortez Masto: Does that volatility mean individual businesses and taxpayers are having to pay those tariffs and small businesses may have to close their doors and suck it up?
▶ 1:41:36Dr. Miran: Thank you, I don't believe there is any material evidence of that to date.
▶ 1:41:41Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me just say on cnn you are interviewed about an auto parts maker in detroit who had to lay off 100 workers and shut down a warehouse, the owner specifically blamed tariffs and you stated it is always convenient to blame political changes when your business fails. Is that how your business believes? That this businessman doesn't know what he is doing?
▶ 1:42:06Dr. Miran: I was not familiar with the circumstances of that business or those workers at that time.
▶ 1:42:12Sen. Cortez Masto: So why didn't you say that at the interview? And make that statement like you did? It is always convenient to blame political changes. Do you believe tariffs are taxes?
▶ 1:42:27Dr. Miran: Economically speaking any policy can be called attacks. In that sense, any monetary policy can be a tax.
▶ 1:42:37Sen. Cortez Masto: So is that es?
▶ 1:42:39Dr. Miran: Any policy can be modeled as a tax.
▶ 1:42:43Sen. Cortez Masto: So tariffs are taxes.
▶ 1:42:46Dr. Miran: My answer is that any economic policy can be modeled as a tax.
▶ 1:42:52Sen. Cortez Masto: Under the last administration we saw a surge in manufacturing jobs adding over 500,000 manufacturing jobs and construction in factories doubling. Under this administration we have seen the exact opposite. In august, the manufacturing sector contracted for the sixth consecutive month due to trump's tariffs and chaotic trade policy.
▶ 1:43:20Sen. Cortez Masto: You said manufacturing construction will surge as a result of tariff and tax policies. Were you wrong?
▶ 1:43:25Dr. Miran: Senator, I do not believe that is the case. I believe that they will because the uncertainty in the tax situation is resolved.
▶ 1:43:35Sen. Cortez Masto: Would you say it is transitory?
▶ 1:43:38Dr. Miran: I think people are concerned that congress would allow the biggest tax hike in history would throw it into, the one big beautiful bill has become the one big beautiful act and the uncertainty has been resolved and there are enormous incentives for investing in america.
▶ 1:43:58Sen. Cortez Masto: So you weren't wrong, we just have to wait and see.
▶ 1:44:02Dr. Miran: The bill was only enacted recently.
▶ 1:44:04Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you.
▶ 1:44:05Chair Scott: Senator moreno.
▶ 1:44:08Senator Moreno: Thank you to all of you for being here. I wonder how president trump is getting such highly qualified nominees as you. I will start with you Mr. hobbs for the obvious reason which is that you are from ohio.
▶ 1:44:28Senator Moreno: I think you're are an inspiration to a lot of people who sit around this room and see what is possible in your careers and I give the chairman huge props for developing quite an assortment of very qualified people. How do you balance the idea that we are spending a record amount to tackle homelessness and yet homelessness continues to increase in the country?
▶ 1:44:52Mr. Hobbs: Thank you and it is an honor to sit before my home state senator today. Unless this is an absolute crisis. Hud's budget has more than doubled in the past four years yet homelessness continues to rise and rise because the solution to homelessness isn't just a house, it is also addressing mental health, it is addressed in substance abuse and crime and vagrants on our city streets.
▶ 1:45:20Mr. Hobbs: President trump is leading on that with his recent executive order.
▶ 1:45:24Sen. Moreno: We had president trump in a place called vista village in ohio. I know that you claim to be from georgia, Mr. kurtz, but your heart is from ohio. Is that correct?
▶ 1:45:40Mr. Kurtz: I am quite the browns fan, yes.
▶ 1:45:44Sen. Moreno: Perfect, that is not easy. That is not easy to do.
▶ 1:45:48Chair Scott: That is a leading question, senator. Talk a little bit about what you think you were going to be doing when it comes to tackling the housing sector you are going to be overlooking?
▶ 1:46:08Mr. Kurtz: Ultimately, the issue of housing availability and affordability is going to be tackled and accomplished at the local level. With the federal government can do is provide issues to execute to that end. It has a very onerous and duplicate of set of requirements to drawdown that money.
▶ 1:46:37Mr. Kurtz: For any community in our states and localities to take money from hud, they have to have people on staff full-time that boxes out countless communities that are ready and willing to develop that have enough people in their offices to turn their lights on.
▶ 1:47:02Mr. Kurtz: Joining secretary turner's team and looking to take inventory of those programs and make it more effective and efficient to that end.
▶ 1:47:12Sen. Moreno: One of the things that has been a great tool for president trump is designating these groups as foreign terrorist organizations. Argue willing to expand that?
▶ 1:47:32Mr. Pilkerton: I certainly look forward to providing you any support. >> yes I would continue to discuss that.
▶ 1:47:45Sen. Moreno: Have you ever provided a mortgage application with getting an interest rate?
▶ 1:47:53Dr. Miran: I have never done that.
▶ 1:47:54Sen. Moreno: You are already ahead of the game. That is good news. Do you think it is appropriate for the federal reserve to weigh in on d.e.I.?
▶ 1:48:03Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator, I don't believe that that is a responsibility.
▶ 1:48:09Sen. Moreno: How about the climate cult?
▶ 1:48:13Dr. Miran: It is not something the federal reserve should be weighing in on.
▶ 1:48:17Sen. Moreno: Do you think they should have been weighing in on the wise and pandemic spending that set records? Do you think it is wise for the fed to encourage that?
▶ 1:48:28Dr. Miran: I don't believe it was wise for the fed to advocate for one fiscal program or another?
▶ 1:48:34Sen. Moreno: Do you think it was wise to claim inflation was transitory?
▶ 1:48:40Dr. Miran: I don't think that was wise.
▶ 1:48:41Sen. Moreno: Do you think it was wise for the federal reserve chairman to advocate for the forgiveness of student debt?
▶ 1:48:47Dr. Miran: I would not make such a recommendation myself.
▶ 1:48:51Sen. Moreno: It seems what we are talking about is restoring the independence of the fed. I want to congratulate the ranking member for voting against jay powell who was an inspiration to every ineffective leader in america.
▶ 1:49:13Chair Scott: Are you finished, sir? Thank you so much. Senator warner.
▶ 1:49:20Senator Warner: Thank, Mr. chairman. I will say to my friend from ohio I want to congratulate the nominees, they are not appointed yet. That is our job to decide whether they move from being nominees to appointments. In light of what my friend from ohio said, I know you are not a lawyer, but in america should everybody have due process?
▶ 1:49:50Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator.
▶ 1:49:53Sen. Warner: Don't thank me, I've got a lot of questions. Do you believe americans should have due process?
▶ 1:50:00Dr. Miran: I believe that americans are entitled to it for criminal proceedings.
▶ 1:50:04Sen. Warner: Do you believe there is a presumption of innocence?
▶ 1:50:07Dr. Miran: Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding and criminal proceedings.
▶ 1:50:12Sen. Warner: So regardless of what charge has been made, I understand maybe this morning something was opened. The idea, first of all that the director of fhs is suddenly going on a mortgage witch hunt and thank goodness have never had a mortgage so I wonder if what goes around comes around.
▶ 1:50:43Sen. Warner: I'm not going to re-blast the whole thing. Senior government officials aren't even decreed some level of due process and basic presumptions on innocence before any evidence has been provided. Senator reed wanted me to follow up. He asked about fed governor proposals.
▶ 1:51:08Sen. Warner: One that you said whether you would not serve an executive branch for the end of your fed term? And to provide that they are voluntarily announced. It is all part of a package deal. In the reforms you propose you said if we can implement this in a piecemeal fashion one policy at a time.
▶ 1:51:42Dr. Miran: It is a package deal or whether that package is a one, big, beautiful bill or a number of bills would be the senate's prerogative.
▶ 1:51:52Sen. Warner: Let me keep moving on. I'm not going to ask you to filibuster on why you think the bls data has been going downhill. It has been the gold standard and I'm hugely concerned that bls leaders are being fired because the numbers didn't come out the way the president wanted.
▶ 1:52:20Sen. Warner: How are you going to make things better when you have seen a raft of senior profession are set bls make the position because of the threat of political interference? I do believe the bureau of labor statistics has deteriorated in quality over the decades.
▶ 1:52:39Sen. Warner: Is that due to a political bias of the bls?
▶ 1:52:42Dr. Miran: Well, the root cause, there are two issues. An inability and refusal to do something to correct for the declining response rate.
▶ 1:52:59Sen. Warner: And that is going to be solved by cutting professional staff?
▶ 1:53:00Dr. Miran: Well, I believe it needs an overhaul and a fresh pair of eyes.
▶ 1:53:03Sen. Warner: So are you making the accusation that the bls data is being politically influenced?
▶ 1:53:09Dr. Miran: I'm making the statement that bls leadership did nothing to arrest the deterioration.
▶ 1:53:18Sen. Warner: Is it appropriate for the president of the united states to call out and fire bls leadership simply because he doesn't like the results?
▶ 1:53:27Dr. Miran: I do not make personnel decisions nor do I have the legal training and constitutional employment law or for that matter any type of law. I'm not the right person.
▶ 1:53:39Sen. Warner: Your answer doesn't give me a lot of confidence. I'm not going to relitigate all the fed independence issues but if you are not willing to call out a frontal attack on the bls and if you are not willing and if you say the information has deteriorated and not willing to acknowledge that loss of professional staff is not going to improve that situation, it makes me concerned.
▶ 1:54:04Sen. Warner: Do you think that the fed, by politicized and simply responding to lowering interest rates will be -- can you speak to the independence of the fed?
▶ 1:54:30Dr. Miran: I don't anticipate such a hypothetical.
▶ 1:54:34Sen. Warner: If the bond market were to respond that way, what action would you take?
▶ 1:54:39Dr. Miran: It is impossible without knowing a what more was going on. That is the turbo -- type of hypothetical about which it is impossible to speculate.
▶ 1:54:54Sen. Warner: I give you credit for your ability to filibuster. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. Let's talk about the feds independence, that has been a big issue here today.
▶ 1:55:14Sen. Warner: I find it particularly rich that the federal reserve's independence is suddenly a big issue from a party that has long sought to systematically inject its ideology into the work of the central bank. Let me get into some specifics. President biden once called for racial equity to be added to the fed still mandate. He sought to appoint someone to use the fed's oversight function to influence bank lending decisions about green energy.
▶ 1:55:46Sen. Warner: He even endorsed democrats' efforts to make the fed conduct monetary policy based on racial outcomes. Furthermore, the fed itself has undermined its own credibility by caving to progressive pressures. The fed joined the network of spent -- central banks and supervisors for greening the financial system. This group promotes leftist climate ideology.
▶ 1:56:11Sen. Warner: Partisanship at the federal reserve board it has come at the expense of supervisory practices and their failure to supervise silicon valley bank. Independence of monetary policy is a critical element for success.
▶ 1:56:34Sen. Warner: This is exactly the right perspective and it is critical to the leadership we need backdoor data-driven monetary policy. I would like to start with you. At the cea, you analyze the impact of tariffs on inflation. And through that analysis you have determined that the tariffs to be considered would not have substantial impact on inflation.
▶ 1:57:06Sen. Warner: I would like to ask you how your analysis on inflation will inform your perspective on monetary policy should you be confirmed.
▶ 1:57:12Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator, I do believe there is no evidence that tariffs have had inflationary in terms of moving the price level. The council of economic advisers looked at the imports of every single good and identified that imported goods have been getting cheaper versus domestically produced goods.
▶ 1:57:39Dr. Miran: Moreover, there are no goods that have moved nationally. Which is what you would expect to see. Moving forward, I expected to be informed by the broad suite of economic policies. This is a subject that has received insufficient attention in the past.
▶ 1:58:16Dr. Miran: The open border policies of the last several years resulted in a 6.5 point percentage point increase in rents. The change to border policies is quite deflationary in my view when we are working on quantifying that.
▶ 1:58:36Sen. Hagerty: I think there are a number of other deflationary activities underway. The development of ai. The deregulatory undertakings of this administration I think it will streamline the government in ways that were inflationary. Our track to get back to energy dominance feeding into a much more deflationary cycle then inflationary one.
▶ 1:59:08Sen. Hagerty: We've got to take politics out of this. I applaud the president for nominating you. You want the fed to get out of the political arena whether it be racial equity green projects were timing of interest-rate project adjustments. I very much appreciate that. Mr. burke, I would like to turn to you quickly. You were going to go to work if you are confirmed with one of my friends, john hurley.
▶ 1:59:41Sen. Hagerty: The undersecretary is extraordinarily confident and he leads a great team. I would like to comment if you would, I chair the national security trade and international finance subcommittee of the banking committee. Senator warner who was here, I would like your thoughts about how you could best work with your subcommittee.
▶ 2:00:05Sen. Hagerty: >> thank you for that question and I look forward to working with undersecretary hurley and you and your staff and the committee on those issues. I do think it is very important as we look at implementing regulatory frameworks and identifying the risks, whether it is terrorists or criminals, that we identify with the risks are.
▶ 2:00:36Sen. Hagerty: And that we can identify the appropriate mitt against. I look forward to working with you all.
▶ 2:00:43Sen. Hagerty: Mr. mitchell knows how to contact our office. Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 2:00:48Chair Scott: Thank you, Mr. chair. >> thank you, Mr. chair. Who is arthur burns?
▶ 2:00:55Dr. Miran: I believe arthur burns was chairman of the federal reserve in the 1970's? >> under which president?
▶ 2:01:04Dr. Miran: Under a variety of presidents. >> specifically do you remember what arthur burns was doing before he joined the federal reserve?
▶ 2:01:17Dr. Miran: I believe arthur burns like a number of others like janet yellen and bernanke and greenspan were chairman and chair women of the council of economic advisors prior to becoming chairman and chairwoman of the federal reserve.
▶ 2:01:32Sen. Gallego: Actually, he went from cea under eisenhower, then he became counselor to richard nixon, then became fed reserve chairman. And likely the reason they did that was to give some level of separation on the surface. What happened during arthur burns' tenure while he was serving in his capacity as chairman with richard nixon at the helm?
▶ 2:01:59Dr. Miran: Can you narrow the question little bit?
▶ 2:02:03Sen. Gallego: What happened to the economy and to the independence of the federal reserve under richard nixon while Mr. burns was the chairman of the federal reserve?
▶ 2:02:14Dr. Miran: Again, I think it is a bit of an open-ended question. A lot of things happened in that period.
▶ 2:02:22Sen. Gallego: Did stagflation happen in that period?
▶ 2:02:25Dr. Miran: It was an outcome, yes.
▶ 2:02:27Sen. Gallego: Was there public scrutiny about the fact that the president was trying to pressure the fed reserve to drop interest rates even though it was said to be a bad idea?
▶ 2:02:38Dr. Miran: Yes, there were news stories around the fractious relationships between the federal reserve and the president.
▶ 2:02:46Dr. Miran: And would you say that what occurred in terms of the pressuring of the federal reserve by president nixon to drop interest rates probably caused directly stagflation?
▶ 2:02:59Dr. Miran: No, I wouldn't say that. I believe it was caused primarily by two errors of the federal reserve plus supply shocks on energy markets, but the errors the federal reserve made in that period was a completion of nominal and real interest rates and by failing to raise nominal interest rates by more than inflation went up.
▶ 2:03:24Sen. Gallego: So you are telling me, reclaiming my time, what a lot of us, whether it was our basic understanding of economics , historically speaking, what everyone understands was direct pressure on the federal reserve, had zero contributions to stagflation that plagued america for almost 10 years?
▶ 2:03:48Dr. Miran: I don't believe there was the consensus that you portrayed exists.
▶ 2:03:52Sen. Gallego: I take back my time. You understand why we are concerned because we have seen this playbook, right? Let me read something to you. The president looked wild, talks like a desperate man, took some of us to task, apparently meeting me, the chairman of the council of economic advisers, for not putting a gay and optimistic face on economic news, however discouraging, propounding the theory that
▶ 2:04:24Sen. Gallego: Congress can color the news. That sounds a lot like donald trump trump and that was richard nixon can ending to the fed chairman arthur burns trying to get him to bring down interest rates and of course he did eventually and the country ended up almost with one decade of bad economic news as well as stagflation.
▶ 2:04:45Sen. Gallego: I don't understand how you don't see why many people are worried about the fact that you are going to go into a temporary position, hold your other position within the white house, and we don't feel like it is going to be hanging over your head -- the sort of donna claes is going to be hanging over your head if you don't lower interest rates.
▶ 2:05:06Sen. Gallego: I think it's a reasonable request that should you be nominated you resign as the chairman of economic advisors head and if you want to go back, you go through the nomination process. We know this president is going to be able to hold that over your head and we are going to question whether you will be making the right decisions for the country and not for your personal career.
▶ 2:05:32Sen. Gallego: I think that is extremely dangerous to the bond market, our economy and could lead us in a direction that could give damage to the reputation of the federal reserve. Thank you, yelled back.
▶ 2:05:42Chair Scott: Senator lawrence -- senator lummis.
▶ 2:05:48Senator Lummis: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. pilkerton. It is not just ag land we need to watch out for. In 2022, in a business park about a mile from the air force base in cheyenne, a chinese owned business set up a digital asset mining business.
▶ 2:06:14Senator Lummis: It was more than two years before a public to pointed out to be a chinese owned business. How can we assure and what steps could you take to make sure that we do know when a chinese owned businesses locating near a critical in this case nera
▶ 2:06:50Senator Lummis: Land-based nuclear missile site.
▶ 2:06:55Mr. Pilkerton: Thank you for that question and I absolutely share your concern. That example is incredibly concerning and it goes back to something I referenced before. The idea of focusing on companies that were not notified whether there would be a covered transaction. We can't protect against what we don't know about.
▶ 2:07:21Mr. Pilkerton: I would look forward if confirmed to working through all of the authorities as it currently stands. I would love to work with you on this.
▶ 2:07:40Sen. Lummis: Thanks. Dr. miran, I think we all want to see independence at the fed. There is monetary policy and there is bank supervision.
▶ 2:08:03Sen. Lummis: In the bank supervision, it is clearly regulatory functions so they are not subject to that independence. They are subject to the direction of the president.
▶ 2:08:20Sen. Lummis: I have seen the federal reserve board and the banks hiding behind the monetary policy independence with respect there is no basis in the law for bank supervision to be completely independent just the way it is from monetary policy. Do you agree with that with different functions?
▶ 2:08:44Dr. Miran: I do agree they are different functions.
▶ 2:08:47Sen. Lummis: Now, thanks, because choque 2.0 as bank supervisor d banking people, which is one of the key reasons people are getting into digital assets like the president's own children.
▶ 2:09:09Sen. Lummis: When you get de-banked and you have 20,000 employees you need to make payroll for and they are told we are closing all your bank accounts, where are they going to go? They are going to go to digital assets because he wouldn't have to trust the bank or the government.
▶ 2:09:30Sen. Lummis: Our own fed is driving people into digital assets because finally there is something out there you don't have to trust in order to keep your wealth. Do you think the federal reserve board and reserve banks have been independent from politics in the last several years?
▶ 2:09:51Dr. Miran: I don't believe it was a set of nonpartisan, nonpolitical technocrats who decided that the federal reserve should be an interest -- an institution that addressed climate change, I don't believe operation chokepoint was a nonpolitical act either. I intend to respectful independence and a monetary policy. On regulatory work and other matters you mentioned.
▶ 2:10:22Sen. Lummis: Can you help us as a member of the reserve to set up a system that clearly do marks the independence on monetary policy but recognizes that the president through his regulatory supervision and oversight of the executive branch does have a role in supervision?
▶ 2:10:41Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator. If confirmed it is an issue I would greatly welcome working with you and your people.
▶ 2:10:48Sen. Lummis: Thank, I yield back.
▶ 2:10:51Chair Scott: Senator warnock.
▶ 2:10:55Senator Warnock: Thank you, chair. On monday, august 25, president trump escalated his continuing assault on the independence of the federal reserve by attempting to illegally fire fed governor lisa cook who is a first-rate economist and georgian that we are all very proud of. No president has ever attempted to fire fed governor before, this stems from an substantiated allegations that governor cook has denied.
▶ 2:11:26Senator Warnock: Everyone understands what is happening here. Presidents tariffs are damaging the economy, we can all see that. Making americans poorer and poorer.
▶ 2:11:51Senator Warnock: He is now insisting the fed cut interest rates to mask his failing economic policies. Families deserve a fed that will work for them, not for the president. And lisa cook is simply being scapegoated for trump's failed economic policies. Dr. miran, the fed's job is to maximize employment and keep prices stable.
▶ 2:12:23Senator Warnock: Not to inflate his poll numbers or soothe his ego or carry out his political agenda. A strong central bank serves families. There is a reason why our economy is the envy of the world . I think that the independence of the fed.
▶ 2:12:52Senator Warnock: In this paper I would like to enter into the record, you proposed reforming the federal reserve to the board of elections having the president complete control to fire fed governors. Congress would need to implement these reforms, is that correct?
▶ 2:13:17Dr. Miran: That is not correct. I did not recommend giving the president control over the fed because what I recommended doing was a package of checks and balances and one of the other checks and balances in the package was strengthening the system of regional reserve banks and ensuring they go to every meeting.
▶ 2:13:35Sen. Warnock: I read your paper and I disagree with your characterization of the argument. Do you think our economy would be better off with president trump setting interest rates unilaterally?
▶ 2:13:48Dr. Miran: Thank you, I don't believe that is the situation which is currently happening.
▶ 2:13:53Sen. Warnock: My question is do you think the economy would be better off if he were able to set interest rates unilaterally?
▶ 2:14:00Dr. Miran: I think the president has had a series of excellent calls recently. However, I do think independence of the central bank from the political cycle is key to its long-term success.
▶ 2:14:13Sen. Warnock: So if a fed governor disagrees with the president over interest rates, should the president be able to fire them based solely on that policy disagreement? Dr. miran: I'm afraid I have no legal training about constitutional or employment law so that question is not one I'm capable of answering.
▶ 2:14:30Sen. Warnock: Do you think the president should be able to fire them based solely on policy disagreements? You have been nominated to serve on the fed.
▶ 2:14:39Dr. Miran: I have no means to evaluate that.
▶ 2:14:42Sen. Warnock: Do you think it is appropriate to --for the president to threaten the firing of chair powell?
▶ 2:14:49Dr. Miran: I don't have views on such a question.
▶ 2:14:53Sen. Warnock: I think you have opined on such questions. Here is the problem with your answer. Trust in institutions takes years and decades to build and this political assault on the fed's independence threatens market stability, reducing investment in our country, costing jobs and retirement accounts.
▶ 2:15:20Sen. Warnock: What happens when businesses and consumers and investors lose faith in the fed's ability to act independently? Whether from the left or the right?
▶ 2:15:29Dr. Miran: Should financial markets and firms come to the view that the fed is not independent, and presumably will have material effect on bond yields and inflation expectations that would be adverse for economic outcomes.
▶ 2:15:50Sen. Warnock: I think that there was a reason again america's economy is the envy of the world. I think independence of the fed is an important part of that. And based on the statements that I've seen so far, I'm convinced that you are not going to exercise that kind of independence.
▶ 2:16:08Sen. Warnock: I think you are conflicted in this role, that you would be a mouthpiece and the proxy vote on the fed board for president trump if you are confirmed and I find that deeply alarming or concerning as I think about the retirement accounts of the people of georgia and the strength of our world economy. Thank you. >> I yield myself five minutes. Mr.
▶ 2:16:31Sen. Warnock: Burke, americans are dying at record rates from fentanyl, over 74,000 overdose deaths in 2022 alone, much of this fentanyl is trafficked into the united states through cartels with ties to chinese precursor companies. President trump rightfully designated these cartels as foreign terrorist organizations and signed the halt fentanyl act to fight against it.
▶ 2:16:58Sen. Warnock: How are you going to enforce tougher sanctions of the financial network that will. Flexing carrier. I'm encouraged by the actions that have been taken already by the administration to target cartels with additional authorities.
▶ 2:17:26Sen. Warnock: Indeed measures have been implemented against thanks and mexico and I continue to support those as well. Going forward and advising confirmed I look forward to getting more details.
▶ 2:17:43Sen. Warnock: There are nodes and typologies to move money from the system with the right tools and developing those tools using a range of authorities available and implementing that robustly, including diplomatic engagement with other countries where we need cooperation. If confirmed, I look forward to working with you.
▶ 2:18:04Sen. Banks: I look forward to that. Mr. hobbs, each year hud distributes tens of millions of dollars of housing assistance for families in poverty through programs like the housing choice voucher program of section eight. Unfortunately, these programs punish people for working and getting married.
▶ 2:18:25Sen. Banks: How will you produce c1 -- thank you, senator for the question and that is an issue I hold very deeply. It is statute that we take about 30% of a low income persons income, whether they get married, we will take their spouses in chrome or -- income. It is incredibly disincentivize and to work and marriage.
▶ 2:18:56Sen. Banks: One thing we are doing is exploring every opportunity and regulatory and statutory flux ability we can to empower local housing authorities to promote self-sufficiency. We are looking for things such as time limits and work requirements. The self-sufficiency program -- >> I look forward to working with you on that. Mr.
▶ 2:19:23Sen. Banks: Kurtz, last month, senator warner and I introduced the reside act. A bipartisan piece of legislation that was passed through this committee as part of chairman scott's road to housing package. It's a commonsense proposal that directs existing funds through the home improvement partnership program to renovate blighted industrial buildings and the homes for working families.
▶ 2:19:49Sen. Banks: When I was home for the august recess, I met with mayors, republican and democrat, of small and big cities through the state of indiana. They very much welcomed this type of solution to the housing crisis in their communities. How else in your new role, if confirmed, can you innovate proposals like this to help tackle our dire housing supply crisis. >> senator, thank you for the question.
▶ 2:20:15Sen. Banks: I do commend this committee for the actions they've taken specifically in that road to housing activists. What is so exciting about working in the space is that I think we all agree on what the goals are here, which is to increase the amount of affordable housing and decrease the amount of homeless americans we have. What you touched on is we need to innovate in this space. Renovating all of the buildings is a huge opportunity.
▶ 2:20:46Sen. Banks: This monday, the department of housing and urban the will be having a demonstration on the national mall of the new type of housing availabilities we have there. Looking to make it easier for prefabricated homes to go and be put in place. And going back to those mayors and local communities as you mention and hearing from them what their community is looking for and what will work for them there is a way to continue to move that ball forward. >> thank you. I look forward to working with you on those issues as well. Thank you to all of you. I support your confirmation.
▶ 2:21:18Sen. Banks: With that, I yield to senator rochester.
▶ 2:21:20Sen. Rochester: Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you to the nominees. Dr. miran, in your testimony, you spoke about the independence of the federal open market committee. You also said the independence of monetary policy is critical. I would like to begin with a yes or no question as well. Do you believe that the federal reserve should remain an independent entity, yes or no?
▶ 2:21:49Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator. As I said in my opening statement, being independent is critical. >> that's a yes?
▶ 2:22:00Dr. Miran: Yes. >> I'm glad to hear this since you've said on the record that I've always been clear that the independence of the fed is of paramount importance. During this hearing, senators on both sides of the aisle have spoken to the independence and independence from political influence of the fed. And literally almost every person, almost everyone, democrats and republicans, have spoken to that. This shouldn't be a controversial opinion.
▶ 2:22:30Dr. Miran: Yet, in the past eight months, this administration has tried time and time again to exert more influence over the federal reserve, an independent agency. Here are a few headlines from news articles that I will be submitting for the record. From forbes, trump might greenlight major lawsuit against major -- major fed chair jerome powell.
▶ 2:23:02Dr. Miran: From the wall street journal, uncharted waters. Trump's attempt to take charge of the fed. From cbs news, trump's unprecedented firing of fed governor lisa cook raises untested questions. Mr. chair, I ask unanimous consent to submit these articles for the record. Mr. chairman?
▶ 2:23:29Dr. Miran: The president has tried and failed to fire chairman powell so now he's on to his latest target, governor lisa cook. She's currently confronting what appears to be an intentional smear campaign and attempted firing. She has, and has continued to serve our country admirably. Ranking member warren referenced nixon.
▶ 2:23:51Dr. Miran: To my knowledge, in the 111 year history of the fed, no president has attempted to influence the fed so blatantly and egregiously as our current president. Dr. cook is a truman scholar, a marshall scholar, graduate of spelman college, went to oxford. Her body of work is a direct rebuke of the failed promises of trickle-down economics.
▶ 2:24:16Dr. Miran: And it's not lost on me that she is the only and first ever black woman to serve on the federal reserve board of governors. First, chairman powell. Now, governor cook. Who's next? Many of my colleagues have spoken to Dr.
▶ 2:24:36Dr. Miran: Miran's potential conflict of still being employed by the white house and serving on the federal board. Even in the questioning about what are some of the qualifications, one of the powers the president has, one of the things you said is I have no legal training on the issue around removal of fed governors.
▶ 2:25:05Dr. Miran: But, that didn't prevent you from writing a 25 page document that talked about that exact topic. Bottom line, the strength of our economy relies on an independent federal reserve. Americans rely on strong economy to afford the basic goods and services needed to survive and thrive.
▶ 2:25:25Dr. Miran: I hope that I can count on my colleagues to voice all of the collective support for the federal reserve board to stay strong and do that amongst or against any of the president's attacks on this independent operation. I, again, am very concerned for where we are going as a country when there aren't those checks and balances.
▶ 2:25:56Dr. Miran: And, again, my colleagues across the aisle all spoke pretty much unanimously to the independence of this agency. And so, I look forward to seeing us put our proverbial money where our mouth is. Thank you and I yield back. >> senator van hollen?
▶ 2:26:17Sen. Van Hollen: Thank you. I want to associate myself commr rochester. With respect to all of her comments, especially with respect to lisa cook and what's happening there. Dr. miran, I've been following closely these proceedings and your responses.
▶ 2:26:41Sen. Van Hollen: I just want to confirm that you would like to keep open the option of returning to the council of economic advisers after a four month stint, should you be confirmed. Is that right?
▶ 2:26:55Dr. Miran: Thank you, senator. As I said before, the advice that I received from the council -- >> I'm asking about your personal ambitions and interests. Do you want to keep open that option?
▶ 2:27:08Dr. Miran: Four and a half months from now is a short but long time from now and I have no idea. >> you could resign, could you not?
▶ 2:27:19Dr. Miran: I could. If I am confirmed to a term longer than 4.5 months, I would. >> I don't know why you have a hard time responding to my question, you want to keep the option open of returning.
▶ 2:27:35Dr. Miran: I am following the advice of the council. >> did the council advise you that you could resign if you wanted to?
▶ 2:27:43Dr. Miran: They did advise that I could if I wanted to. >> of course you could. You want to keep open the option of returning to the council of economic advisers. My question here is pretty simple. It would be up to president trump as to whether or not you were able to return to the council of economic advisers, right?
▶ 2:28:03Dr. Miran: As the council of economic advisers is part of the president's administration and the president would be able to decide who's at that agency. >> he could decide not to bring you back, this is pretty straight forward.
▶ 2:28:20Dr. Miran: Yes. >> do you think president trump would want to have you back at the council of economic advisers if you defied his wishes in your votes and actions on the federal reserve, should you be confirmed?
▶ 2:28:35Dr. Miran: I do not know the inside of anybody else's mind. What I can tell you is that if I am confirmed, I will act independently, based on my own independent analysis of the economy. >> let me help you out. I think a couple of your boss's tweets would be reflective of his state of mind. This is a tweet from the first of this month.
▶ 2:29:05Dr. Miran: Jerome "too late" powell, a stubborn more on. If he continues to refuse, the board should assume control and do what has to be done. So, are you seriously telling me that if you were to vote and exercise judgment that was not consistent with what the president of the united states wants, that the president would not have you back at the council of economic advisers?
▶ 2:29:35Dr. Miran: The job you want to hold open for yourself.
▶ 2:29:36Dr. Miran: I interpret that statement as an exultation to independent action by encouraging members of the committee to vote their own views as opposed to taking direction from a chairman of the federal reserve. I interpret those words as the opposite of what you do. >> you've not seen the tweets where the president has tried to fire chairman powell?
▶ 2:30:05Dr. Miran: I've seen the posts on truth social. >> he's done that repeatedly. And so, for you to suggest that the president would somehow welcome you back with open arms at the council of economic advisers, should you vote in a way states, is just not credible in any way, given the president's repeated actions.
▶ 2:30:30Dr. Miran: Let me ask you about the situation over at the bureau of labor. Here's another tweet. Actually the same day as the earlier one. Today's job numbers were rigged, in order to make republicans and me look bad. I have a very simple question. Dr. miran, do you think the statistics were rigged to make the president look bad?
▶ 2:31:00Dr. Miran: I think the statistics were allowed to deteriorate in quality.
▶ 2:31:06Sen. Van Hollen: That's a different issue. We may agree or disagree on that. That's different from suggesting they were intentionally rigged. Are you seriously suggesting, as the president did that the numbers were rigged? It a yes or no.
▶ 2:31:20Dr. Miran: I believe the numbers were allowed to deteriorate without taking corrective action.
▶ 2:31:25Sen. Van Hollen: That's nonresponsive. >> senator alsobrooks. Normally we use our five minutes to ask questions of the witnesses. These are not normal times.
▶ 2:31:47Sen. Van Hollen: You've been watching hearings from another part of the senate today great to make a long story short, this administration is making americans both sicker and poorer. And so today, the nomination of Dr. miran to be a member of the federal reserve's board of governor is an attempt to rewrite the tragic story that the trump economy is telling the american people. This administration wants to find someone else to blame for the chaos that we are all experiencing.
▶ 2:32:15Sen. Van Hollen: That is why they are illegally attempting to fire a current member of the federal reserve. That's why they fired the leader responsible for providing objective economic data to the american public, because they did not like the facts. Dr. miran, who is before us is one of the chief architects of the trump economy. Let's talk about that economy. The american people remember eight months ago when this administration took over.
▶ 2:32:44Sen. Van Hollen: This president promised to end inflation on day one. He promised energy and electricity prices would be slashed. He insisted that housing prices would decrease. And he said that he would make america affordable again. Eight months later, what we know is that president trump has no winds to celebrate. His promises have proven fraudulent. Prices have not gone down. In fact, they have gone up. The trump tariffs of which Dr.
▶ 2:33:14Sen. Van Hollen: Miran is a strong proponent are harming maryland families and businesses. Prices and groceries and other goods -- of groceries and other goods continue to rise. Middle-class americans are worried. This week, a new poll found that a record low number of americans now believe that their hard work will improve their standard of living. I believe that Dr. miran knows the trump economy is in fact failing.
▶ 2:33:42Sen. Van Hollen: And that's why he's publicly celebrated trump's firing of the leader of the bureau of labor statistics. Because you know what? He did not like the facts. It's pretty obvious, to me and to everyone else paying attention that trumps economy is an unmitigated disaster. It is harder than ever, I just met with a number of young people who came to me. It is harder than ever for young americans to buy a home and they know it.
▶ 2:34:09Sen. Van Hollen: The american dreaming slipping further out of reach for millions of people. Americans promises have always rested on the idea that its citizens can have a fair shot at the american dreaming. Yet, president trump's economy is destroying that foundation. This is an ugly story. The american people are struggling as a result and this administration is searching for a scapegoat. That's why the president is now imposing political influence on the federal reserve.
▶ 2:34:37Sen. Van Hollen: How disgusting that is, which is bound to hurt marylanders retirements, savings and mortgages. The president's unprecedented illegal firing of Dr. lisa cook won't improve our economic outlook and it will continue the chaos and reduce confidence from american families and businesses. This president and the administration he has assembled has made it harder for americans to build wealth and to get ahead.
▶ 2:35:04Sen. Van Hollen: It is a devastating legacy that seems only to worsen by the week. Dr. miran's nomination would only take us further down this disastrous economic path that this administration has set. This nomination won't make the lives of americans better and it will not infect fact lower the cost of inflation or fight it. It won't give 20 million americans their health care back.
▶ 2:35:30Sen. Van Hollen: It will provide for our nation's most vulnerable and it will not restore confidence that the federal reserve is safeguarding the american economy. For these reasons, I cannot support Dr. miran's nomination and I cannot sit back while the president injects chaos to the economy to settle political grievances.
▶ 2:35:49Sen. Van Hollen: Too many marylanders and too many americans are suffering because of the sheer economic ignorance of this president and the cowardice of nominees who know better but refused to speak up. So, thank you so much. And I yield back. >> that concludes the question and answer portion of today's hearing. Prior to a journey, I have some final housekeeping announcements.
▶ 2:36:13Sen. Van Hollen: Before I do that, I would like to thank our nominees for testifying before the committee today and thank you for your willingness to serve our country. For senators, all follow on questions for the record must be submitted by 12:00 p.m. On friday, september 5. For our witnesses, please respond by monday, september 8 at 10:00 a.m. To the written questions you receive in order to facilitate this committee promptly processing these nominations.
▶ 2:36:44Sen. Van Hollen: This concludes my brief stint as chairman banks of the senate banking committee. With that, the hearing is adjourned. ♪