▶ 0:12:56>> we need to favorably consider reporting the nominations of britt sweitzer to be a united states trader presented, gus chiarello, assistant secretary for financial resources at the department of health and human services, and mike stuart to be general counsel of hhs. Members will have the opportunity to offer remarks on the nominees and following any statement we will recess briefly and proceed to this morning's hearing with secretary kennedy.
▶ 0:13:26We will vote on these nominations off the senate floor today and I think we agreed that 11:30. There are other boats starting on the floor that time. At his hearing, Mr. sweitzer discussed his commitment to trade policies and practices that plays the american economy and the american worker first. I look forward to working with him to ensure our trade policy prioritizes U.S. competitiveness, spurs job creation and promotes innovation. Mr. chiarello and Mr.
▶ 0:13:55Stuart discussed issues with the health care system, including costs, a burdensome drug approval process, and the opioid crisis. If confirmed, both Mr. chiarello and Mr. stuart stuart will have opportunity to advise secretary kennedy on solutions. Given their respective backgrounds, I'm confident in their ability to provide thoughtful counsel to the secretary.
▶ 0:14:23I will be voting in favor of each nomination and I encourage all my colleagues on the committee to do the same. Senator wyden.
▶ 0:14:30Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. I will start off with michael stuart. The health department's top lawyer is responsible for calling balls and strikes, making sure the department follows the law. That is something robert kennedy and donald trump have shown little interest in. During his confirmation hearing, Mr.
▶ 0:14:51Sen. Wyden: Stuart provided no assurances he would follow laws like impala that make sure emergency departments provide lifesaving medical care. Robert kennedy, we will hear from him later, his speed running our country into the worst measles outbreak in decades. He has gutted vaccine panels, cancer research and overseeing the biggest blow to medicaid and the affordable care act in history. Mr.
▶ 0:15:17Sen. Wyden: Stuart has given no reason to believe he would be anything other than a rubberstamp for robert kennedy. Next up, gus chiarello, nominated to be assistant secretary for financial resources at hhs.
▶ 0:15:32Sen. Wyden: If confirmed, he will -- especially in light of the trump administration's weaponizing of federal funding.
▶ 0:15:54Sen. Wyden: Between february's disaster funding phrase and the latest decision on funds congress already appropriate, the administration is making a mockery of congressional authority. If confirmed, Mr. chiarello would oversee unprecedented funding and staff cuts and budget shortfalls. He has shown no intention of pushing back against donald trump and taking a blow torch to the programs and resources millions of americans rely on to stay healthy and safe.
▶ 0:16:22Sen. Wyden: Brian switzer, nominated to be U.S. trade representative with jurisdiction over asia and a number of important areas, textiles, investments, services, property. From day one the reason this is an important appointment is donald trump's trade agenda has been disastrous. His tariffs and trade flip-flopping his left american farmers, businesses and workers on an economic roller coaster. Prices are up, small businesses and farmers struggle.
▶ 0:16:53Sen. Wyden: For the sixth straight month in a row U.S. manufacturing has declined. That is the message I have heard all over my state as I had town hall meetings and some of the most rural parts of oregon and talked with business owners, farmers and ranchers. Mr. switzer will provide either transparency or consistency. I urge my colleagues to oppose him and vote no on each of these nominees.
▶ 0:17:19Chair Crapo: Thank you, senator wyden. Unless senator daines wishes to make a statement, we will now proceed unless there is an objection to going into recess briefly and proceed to this morning's hearing with secretary kennedy at 10:00 a.m. We will vote on these nominations off the senate floor today at 11:30 a.m. Without objection, it is so ordered.
▶ 0:17:48Chair Crapo: The committee will stand in recess.
▶ 0:45:22Chair Crapo: That hearing will come to border. Today we need to hear from U.S. department of health and human services secretary robert f. Kennedy, jr. About president trump's 2026 health care agenda. Mr. secretary, thank you for being here. While I expect a spirited debate, I remind my colleagues each senator is limited to five minutes and we will try to keep that as tight as we can today. There are 27 of us. We all want to have our opportunity.
▶ 0:45:52Chair Crapo: At the end of the five minute time, I will gently tap the gavel if it appears things are starting to lapse over. I encourage my colleagues and our witness to conclude the remarks at the conclusion of this time. President and secretary kennedy made a steadfast commitment to make america healthy again. Under this administration, hhs has placed patients at the center of the health care system. Empowering them with the tools and information they need to create a healthier future.
▶ 0:46:24Chair Crapo: We know that chronic diseases such as heart disease and cancer and diabetes are some of the leading causes of death in america. Now the department has a renewed focus on the root causes of chronic disease and promoting prevention first. I look forward to exploring ways the federal government can further align payment incentives to support healthy, living, and fight the chronic disease.
▶ 0:46:52Chair Crapo: The administration prioritized efforts to end waste, fraud and abuse in our federal health care programs, including through eligibility and enrollment verification. This critical work is not just about saving taxpayer dollars. It's about restoring trust and ensuring vital programs like medicare and medicaid are sustainable for generations to come.
▶ 0:47:17Chair Crapo: In july, the centers for medicare and medicaid services, cms, announced the agency identified 2.8 million americans who were simultaneously enrolled in multiple medicaid or affordable care act exchange plans. Stopping this duplicate enrollment while working with states to ensure individuals do not inappropriately lose coverage has the potential to save taxpayers $14 billion annually.
▶ 0:47:48Chair Crapo: Cms has taken steps to provide states with additional immigration information to verify eligibility for federal health care programs. Preserving lifelines like medicaid for those who are legally entitled under the law will ensure the long-term sustainability. Congress has bolstered these efforts by passing the one big beautiful bill.
▶ 0:48:13Chair Crapo: This bill and commonsense reforms to reduce improper payments and brings needed personal accountability to the medicaid program. These reforms will protect medicaid and refocus the program on the most vulnerable patients, those whom the program was intended to serve.
▶ 0:48:32Chair Crapo: The oeda created rural health transmission program, the single largest investment in rural health care in decades to help stabilize and modernize rural health delivery system throughout the country. These accomplishments reflect the vision for a health care system that is proactive, efficient and patient-centered.
▶ 0:48:58Chair Crapo: While many issues discussed today may be partisan in nature, this committee has a deep history of bipartisan health care compliments. I remain committed to partnering with this administration and ranking member wyden to enact policies that realign incentives in the prescription drug supply chain, expand access to telehealth, and ensure long-term stability in our physician payment system. Mr.
▶ 0:49:24Chair Crapo: Secretary, I look forward to hearing from you today about the administration's efforts to make america healthy again. And how we can continue to work together to achieve this shared goal. Thank you very much. Senator wyden.
▶ 0:49:37Sen. Wyden: As the committee gathers today the united states is in the midst of a health care calamity. The largest cuts to american health care in the history of our nation. They are approaching like an avalanche.
▶ 0:49:55Sen. Wyden: Last week most of the senior leadership from the centers for disease control and prevention were fired or resigned after refusing to bow to robert kennedy's unceasing crusade against vaccines. I traveled across oregon last month and the message was the same from one into the state -- of the state to the other. Families are confused and scared about who to trust about their health care.
▶ 0:50:24Sen. Wyden: Robert kennedy and donald trump have done so much to feed that mistrust. This morning my staff in partnership with senator also broke'-- alsobrook's team is showing the disaster of 103 days in office. Every day there's an action that in health -- endangers the health and wellness of american families.
▶ 0:50:50Sen. Wyden: Robert kennedy has elevated conspiracy theories, crackpots and grifters to make life or death decisions about the health care of the american people. Robert kennedy's tenure is so far marked by three calling cards. One is chaos. The federal health agencies leaving families, doctors and the nation confused and frightened. Corruption that benefits robert kennedy, donald trump, and their friends at the expense of taxpayers.
▶ 0:51:19Sen. Wyden: In higher health costs for families. I asked consent to enter this report into the record.
▶ 0:51:24Chair Crapo: Without objection.
▶ 0:51:26Sen. Wyden: There has been chaos. Robert kennedy's primary interest is to take vaccines away from americans. During his confirmation process he claimed to be pro-safety and pro-science. His actions reveal a steadfast commitment to elevating junk science and french conspiracies. His agenda is not about choices and information for families.
▶ 0:51:52Sen. Wyden: Just last week he threatened doctors and deviated from the new anti-science vaccine guidelines he released to make it harder for pregnant women and children to get the covid vaccine. Then there is corruption. Robert kennedy's bizarre statements begged the question why. Democrats answered the questions months ago. Robert kennedy can enrich himself and his allies. His family stands to gain from class action lawsuits against vaccine makers.
▶ 0:52:22Sen. Wyden: Robert kennedy fired every member -- every single one of the group responsible for making vaccine recommendations to doctors across the country under the false pretense of conflict of interest. Meanwhile many of the new members of the panel are outright vaccine deniers who have appeared as paid witnesses in lawsuits against vaccine makers. The conflict of interest in ethics disclosures remain hidden under lock and key.
▶ 0:52:50Sen. Wyden: On top of all this bedlam in american health care, two months ago donald trump signed into law the largest health care cuts in american history to pay for tax breaks for the wealthiest people and massive corporations in our country. Republicans know these cuts are going to hit communities like a wrecking ball. That is why they pushed the most of your cuts until after the election. That's why the members introduced bills to roll back some of the cuts.
▶ 0:53:21Sen. Wyden: Those cuts are being felt right now. We are seeing hospitals in idaho cutting payment. They are shutting down their labor and delivery unit. Every family is going to feel the burden of trumpcare in america. Premium are going to spike next year, especially for those who buy health insurance on their own. The effect will be felt by those who get insurance through an employer.
▶ 0:53:50Sen. Wyden: Congress has an opportunity to extend the affordable cap, tax credits that lower the cost of premiums. Democrats are ready to pass things and extension that stops the spike that affords many families to pay double what they do they. Instead of finding ways to help american families pay less for health care, robert kennedy is focused on his anti-vaccine mission fueled by some kind of complex that the consequences be dammed.
▶ 0:54:20Sen. Wyden: Amid this litany of corruption and chaos 1.I have to underline his robert kennedy puts children in harm's way every single day in america. My republican colleagues, I must ask what line must robert kennedy cross before some of you will also join the alarm? Under the cover of darkness he attended to disappear hundreds of children.
▶ 0:54:49Sen. Wyden: These children without parents or family were rounded up in the night and put on airplanes to guatemala. Lawyers on the ground described unthinkable scenes. Our staff, some who are here today were party to this in the middle the night. One child said to their lawyer, why do they want to send me back? My mom is dead and my dad abuses me. Why do they want to hurt me? This was an actual conversation.
▶ 0:55:17Sen. Wyden: Many of these children were in the country to escape trafficking in their homeland. Mr. kennedy called himself a protector of children. Some kind of rich claim, claiming from seven who has flown a jeffrey epstein's private jet on multiple occasions. I don't think robert kennedy should be within a million miles of this job. Republicans on the committee had a chance to prevent the public health train wreck Mr. kennedy has engineered. Everyone voted for him.
▶ 0:55:47Sen. Wyden: It is in the country's best interest that robert kennedy stepped down and if he doesn't, donald trump should fire him before more people are heard with his disregard for science and the truth. Senator cantwell has joined us in this effort. I hope that robert kennedy has the decency to tell the truth this morning. Mr. chairman, I have the procedural request I would like to make at this time. It is a short one.
▶ 0:56:17Chair Crapo: Proceed.
▶ 0:56:18Sen. Wyden: Mr. chairman, it is unfortunate I have to say this. This is a witness who has lied to members of the senate finance committee. In response to over 35 written questions, including from me, he said, "he would do nothing as hhs secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking vaccines." that was clearly not true.
▶ 0:56:49Sen. Wyden: Is unprecedented unilateral actions to restrict access to covid vaccines, that alone proves it. He tried to fire the senate approved cdc after she chose the truth over what I consider his delusions. His prepared testimony today includes the debunked lie that half a million children disappeared under the biden administration's watch, a lie the trump administration is using as a pretext to hunt immigrant children and their families. My request, Mr.
▶ 0:57:15Sen. Wyden: Chairman, and I think it is unfortunate I have to do this but given the unprecedented nature of the witness's behavior I ask now for the committee formally to swear in robert kennedy as a witness.
▶ 0:57:31Chair Crapo: Senator wyden, I will reject your request. We will treat this witness as we treat all of the other administration witnesses who come before us. Let me just say again, as I said, we will have some partisan disagreements today. We are having partisan disagreements right now. I'm having disagreements with you on your characterization of the facts. We will let the secretary make his own case in his opening statement.
▶ 0:58:02Sen. Wyden: I will only say, Mr. chairman, that this committee's unwillingness -- the senate finance committee about hugely important questions like vaccines is a great mistake and that's why I made the request. I understand you will not grant it and we can move on.
▶ 0:58:27Chair Crapo: We will get to the bottom of your accusations. At this point I will turn to our witness, the secretary of health and human services, robert f. Kennedy, jr. Mr. kennedy, Mr. secretary, you may make your opening statement at this time.
▶ 0:58:43Sec. Kennedy: Thank you, chairman crapo, and thank you, ranking member wyden for the invitation to appear before the committee today. Before I summarize what we accomplished at hhs, I want to express my deepest condolences to the family of dekalb county police officer david rose who gave his life to stop a gunfire attack on the cdc on august 8. Officer rose was a veteran. He was a husband and a father of two children.
▶ 0:59:16Sec. Kennedy: Officer rose's widow is expecting their third child. I would like officer rose's family to know that he remains in our prayers and he will continue to be in our thoughts. Let me start with the big picture. Under president trump's leadership, we are enacting a once in a generation shift from a secure system to a true health care system that tackles the root causes of chronic disease.
▶ 0:59:44Sec. Kennedy: Chronic disease reached a crisis proportion in our country. Finally we have an administration that is taking the report assessment which the white house released in may was the first government analysis for the key drivers of childhood chronic disease. Ultra processed foods, physical inactivity, and over medicalization. This month we will follow with the maha report strategy.
▶ 1:00:17Sec. Kennedy: At hhs we have not just been writing reports. We have been the busiest, most proactive administration in hhs history.
▶ 1:00:30Sec. Kennedy: And have a year we have taken on food dyes, baby formula contamination, the grass, the floor right in the drinking water, gas station heroin, electronic cigarettes, drug prices, prior authorization, information blocking -- >> [indiscernible] it's taken over three months [indiscernible]
▶ 1:00:56Chair Crapo: The committee will come to order. >> [indiscernible]
▶ 1:01:06Chair Crapo: I apologize for that outburst, secretary kennedy. Comments from the audience are inappropriate. If there are any further disruptions, the committee will recess until the police can restore order. Mr. secretary, please proceed.
▶ 1:01:26Chair Crapo: Prior authorization --
▶ 1:01:30Sec. Kennedy: Prior authorization, information blocking, health care interoperability. We are ending child mutilation and reducing animal testing. We are addressing cell phone use in schools, excessive screen time for youths, the lack of nutrition education in the medical schools, sickle cell anemia, hepatitis c, the chemicals devel -- the east palestine chemical spill and
▶ 1:02:00Sec. Kennedy: Others. We are on track to improve more drugs this year than at any time in history. Proud to say that hhs under president is doing more with less. We have taken measures to fight waste, fraud and abuse. Just by limiting duplicate of enrollments in cms we are saving taxpayers $14 billion a year. Meanwhile, we are expanding access for people who need it.
▶ 1:02:30Sec. Kennedy: We are ending race, diversity, equity and inclusion practices regardless of their race, the original intent of title x. We are also throwing $1 billion a head start and the administration for children and families. Compassion need not be the casualty of efficiency. I would like to highlight some issues that have not gotten immediate attention.
▶ 1:03:00Sec. Kennedy: We are doing our part to fulfill the president's commitment to stop human trafficking, especially of children. We inherited a terribl -- on medicare and crisis from the previous administration with the open border policies which allow the 470 6000 unaccompanied children. -- 476,000 unaccompanied children.
▶ 1:03:27Sec. Kennedy: We have knocked on 82,000 doors and located 22,000 of those children. I promise you we will do more in the next three years. We are addressing the disastrous health conditions in tribal communities on native american reservations. I have met face-to-face with tribal leaders in dozens of communities and tribes in alaska, arizona, idaho, new mexico and elsewhere.
▶ 1:03:58Sec. Kennedy: I look forward to making hhs resources more available to those communities. One of the most significant initiatives under president trump is a rural health transformation fund. Part of the president big beautiful bill which will provide the greatest investment in federal money into rural health care in history. I would like to address the recent shakeups at cdc.
▶ 1:04:23Sec. Kennedy: These changes were absolutely necessary to restore the agency to its role as the world's gold standard public health agency with a central mission of protecting americans from infectious disease.
▶ 1:04:39Sec. Kennedy: Cdc failed that responsibility miserably during covid when it's disastrous, nonsensical policies destroyed small businesses, violated civil liberties, closed our schools, caused generational damage in doing so, masked infants with no science and heightened economic inequality. It failed to do anything about the disease itself.
▶ 1:05:09Sec. Kennedy: America is home to 4.2% of the worlds population, yet we had nearly 20% of the covid deaths. We literally did worse than any country in the world. And the people at cdc who oversaw that process, who put masks on children, closed our schools are the people who will be leaving. That is why we need bold, confident and creative new leadership at cdc. People able and willing to chart a new course.
▶ 1:05:40Sec. Kennedy: As my father once said, progress is a nice word but change is its motivator. Change has its enemies. That is what we need new blood at cdc. That's also why it's imperative we remove officials with conflicts of interest and catastrophically bad judgment and political agendas. We need unbiased politics-free, transparent evidence-based science in the public interest.
▶ 1:06:10Sec. Kennedy: Those of the guiding principles behind the changes at the cdc and that is what you can expect all across our agency for the next three years.
▶ 1:06:22Chair Crapo: Thank you very much, Mr. secretary. I will begin with a questioning. One of the first things is something that is under the auspices of cms. I spoke with Dr. last night about this. -- Dr. oz last night about this. In the one big, beautiful bill there are attacks going on publicly about hospitals in trouble.
▶ 1:06:48Chair Crapo: The blame for that is placed on the bill, even though it has not been plummeted yet. The fact -- implemented yet. This committee held hearings on the troubles that rural hospitals are facing in the united states before the passage of the one big, beautiful bill. They have been facing difficulties in rural america years now.
▶ 1:07:13Chair Crapo: The bill contained a rural health transformation program which I would ask you to comment on. This program allocated $50 billion over the next five years to our rural community hospitals in the united states to help them deal with some of the financial crises they are facing in transition to more stability. Could you comment on that program that is in the one big beautiful bill?
▶ 1:07:42Sec. Kennedy: One of president trump's campaign promises and one of the principal preoccupations not only of republicans, but I did b -- but almost equally among democratic senators is the crisis in rural health. 120 rural hospitals have closed in the last 10 years. These are not just delivering health access to rural americans but our economic centers and cultural centers for those communities.
▶ 1:08:13Sec. Kennedy: They are often the largest employer. They have the highest paying jobs and the centerpiece for those communities. When they die, communities collapse. President trump promised to do something about that and has delivered on that promise. Right now we spend about 6% of medicaid funding to rural hospitals. A very, very tiny slice and that is why they are in trouble.
▶ 1:08:43Sec. Kennedy: President trump has allocated with the big, beautiful bill $50 billion, $10 billion a year over the next five years. That is 6%, $19 billion a year. We are increasing that by $10 billion. We are infusing more than 50% increase in the amount of money that is going to rural communities over the next five years. There's never been anything like that in history.
▶ 1:09:13Sec. Kennedy: Is the biggest investment and it should stem the hemorrhage.
▶ 1:09:19Chair Crapo: I appreciate you getting clarity to that. It is frustrating to see this continuous allegations that the difficulties that our rural hospitals were created in the last few months when we been holding hearings in this committee about these problems.
▶ 1:09:37Chair Crapo: In the bill that we-- in the bil in the bill that we-- in the bie in the bill that we-- in the bi, we gave a $50 billion increase to the federal support for our community rural hospitals in the united states. I think that the hospital owners understand that. They recognize that support and are coming together very carefully with Dr. oz to work on the rollout of this program so that we can see this boost and support that's coming.
▶ 1:10:09Chair Crapo: Just another one of the disagreements we have about what was really in the one big beautiful bill. I appreciate you commenting on that. In the last minute 10 seconds I have with you, could you quickly talk once again about the issue of making america healthy again in terms of our aim to change the health care system's focus from a reactive symptom management model to one that focuses on lifestyle choices in the root causes of chronic disease?
▶ 1:10:44Mr. Kennedy: You know, this morning I got the latest number from cdc. 76.4 americans -- 76% of americans have a chronic disease. When my uncle was president it was 11%. In 1950 was 3%. Today at 76.4%. Eight out of 10 of our kids cannot qualify for military service. It's a national security issue. When my uncle was president, we spent zero on chronic disease.
▶ 1:11:15Mr. Kennedy: Today we spend 1.3 trillion. The biggest cause and it's increasing. All the arguments that republicans and democrats have about single, obamacare, or the various ways of out -- allocating health dollars, it's like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. We are the sickest country in the world. That's why we have to fire the people at the cdc. They did not do their job.
▶ 1:11:44Mr. Kennedy: This was their job, to keep us healthy. I need to fire some of those people to make sure that this doesn't happen again.
▶ 1:11:51Chair Crapo: I have to cut myself off to make sure I stick to the timeframe.
▶ 1:11:56Sen. Wyden: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I've made it clear that I think that secretary kennedy is dead set on making it harder for children to get vaccines and that kids are going to die because of it. Mr. chairman I would like to put into the record today the op and written by susan monarez, hired by Mr. kennedy.
▶ 1:12:16Chair Crapo: Without objection.
▶ 1:12:19Sen. Wyden: So, what we know, and she was approved by republicans, she wrote an op-ed today in "the wall street journal that I put -- journal" that I put in the record, she wrote "I was told to pre-approve the recommendations of vaccine advisory panels newly filled with people who have publicly expressed anti-vaccine rhetoric ." so, this is not some liberal philosopher or something.
▶ 1:12:51Sen. Wyden: This is the cdc director telling "the wall street journal interested in progressive theories and the like, that she was told to pre-approve the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel filled with people who publicly expressed anti-vaccine rhetoric. My first question, Mr. secretary, is did you in fact do what the director said you did?
▶ 1:13:16Sen. Wyden: Tell her to just go along with vaccine recommendations even if she didn't think those recommendations aligned with scientific evidence? That's a yes or no. You have the opportunity to call her a liar if you say you didn't do it. But I would like to see you respond to this.
▶ 1:13:34Mr. Kennedy: I did not say that to her. I never had a private meeting with her. There are witnesses to all the meetings we had and all of those witnesses will say I never said that.
▶ 1:13:48Mr. Kennedy: So -- Sen. wyden: so, she is lying and open what wall street journal"?
▶ 1:13:54Mr. Kennedy: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:13:55Sen. Wyden: Let's talk about what's coming up. I made it clear what I thought about those 203 days with my colleagues. The two week cdc advisory community -- committee will meet to make decisions about critical vaccines that protect us against hepatitis b, measles, and more. The committee has a profound impact on vaccine access. These are not ordinary meetings. You stacked the deck to make sure that the panel bends to your views.
▶ 1:14:26Sen. Wyden: In june you fired all 17 committee members who work respected scientists and doctors and replace them with skeptics, nonexperts, and conspiracy theorists. As a result, this critical advisory panel has lost scientific credibility after years of spending so much time, not looking at this as democrats and republicans, but good science with scientific credibility.
▶ 1:14:53Sen. Wyden: Now the american academy of pediatrics has warned that the committee is being politicized at the expense of children's health. The american academy of pediatrics, are they lying?
▶ 1:15:04Mr. Kennedy: I think the american academy of pediatrics is gravely conflicted. Their biggest contributors are the four largest vaccine makers. They run terrible pediatrics and they make a lot of money on it and its dependent on pharmaceutical companies. I wouldn't put a big stake in what they say.
▶ 1:15:34Mr. Kennedy: Senator, I didn't politicize this, I depoliticize that.
▶ 1:15:37Sen. Wyden: All over the country, Mr. secretary, scientists and doctors are saying otherwise. They are all wrong and lying, according to you?
▶ 1:15:48Mr. Kennedy: Scientists and doctors support me all over the country.
▶ 1:15:54Sen. Wyden: I don't get letters from thousands of people who are not political who say that this set of changes is going to damage american health care, particularly these health care agencies, for decades to come. I don't get those records.
▶ 1:16:14Mr. Kennedy: Maybe you are listening to a selected group of people. I tell you what, senator, I will put my mailbag against your mailbag any day.
▶ 1:16:24Sen. Wyden: I got 30 seconds. Dangerous respiratory viruses like rsv are on the agenda for the next advisory meeting. Countless parents have been awakened in the dead of night by a wheezing kid, gasping for air, forced to rush their little one to the er, no worse heart wrenching fear. The rsv vaccine offers children protection against the worst effects of the virus.
▶ 1:16:51Sen. Wyden: Now it looks like you are on a crusade to make infants and babies more vulnerable to a terrible illness. That is what we are doing with the covid changes.
▶ 1:16:58Chair Crapo: Please make your answer brief.
▶ 1:17:01Mr. Kennedy: I've said --
▶ 1:17:05Sen. Wyden: The position is indefensible.
▶ 1:17:08Mr. Kennedy: Congress has been investigating that committee for 23 years because it is pervaded by conflicts of interest. What we did is we got rid of the conflicts of interest. We depoliticize and put great scientists on it from a very diverse group.
▶ 1:17:26Sen. Wyden: Let me close with this, and a few seconds over, like senator crapo. I don't think that this is about you and me. This is about kids being pushed into harms way by reckless and repeated decisions to get scientists and doctors out of the way to allow conspiracy theories to dictate this country's health policy. I don't see any evidence that you have any regrets about anything you have done or plans to change it.
▶ 1:17:54Sen. Wyden: My last comment is that I hope you will tell the american people how many preventable child deaths are an acceptable sacrifice for enacting an agenda that I think is fundamentally cruel and defies common sense.
▶ 1:18:09Mr. Kennedy: Do I get a reply? Senator, you sat in that chair for how long, 20, 25 years, while the chronic diseases and our children went up to 76% and you said nothing. You never asked the question -- why is this happening, why is this happening? Today for the first time in 20 years infant mortality has increasing our country and it's not because I came in here.
▶ 1:18:39Mr. Kennedy: It's because of the biden administration.
▶ 1:18:42Chair Crapo: I'm going to let the senator responded briefly and we are going to go over like we just did.
▶ 1:18:48Sen. Wyden: On a bipartisan basis, colleagues, the secretary says we have no interest in chronic care.
▶ 1:18:56Chair Crapo: Could we have regular order, please?
▶ 1:18:59Sen. Wyden: We are in the process of turning around a medicare program with a chronic care bill that this committee worked together on for a bipartisan basis.
▶ 1:19:08Chair Crapo: We will proceed and I want the rest of the chair I want the rest of this -- I want everyone else to note we are sticking to the five minutes, I give the senator some leeway as chair. Senator grassley?
▶ 1:19:27Senator Grassley: I have asked the rural community demonstration program to be utilized under medicare and it's been underutilized. It made the cms fill the open slots. Thanks to the work from your agency there have been 10 more rural hospitals in the program. It is important that the federal government use every tool possible to help rural hospitals. Thank you for making that possible. Now, to my questions.
▶ 1:20:00Senator Grassley: Back in january, during your confirmation, you said you agreed to leave farming regulations to the department of agriculture and the epa. Do you think that any comments you have made since your confirmation on topics dealing with agriculture are consistent set in january, that the usda and epa ought to be regulating farming and that the department of health and human services should not seek to regulate
▶ 1:20:30Senator Grassley: Farms, the tools they use, or the markers -- markets they sell into?
▶ 1:20:36Mr. Kennedy: Senator, we, we are working very, very closely with the agricultural community. We have met with over 140 farm interests over the past three months. In order to incorporate them, to make sure that the maha agenda is consistent with their agenda.
▶ 1:21:03Mr. Kennedy: We are producing the best and kept -- protecting our soil micro biomes and protecting all kinds of farmers, including those who want to transition to regenerative agriculture. We are consulting every stakeholder in the farming community in everything that we do.
▶ 1:21:22Sen. Grassley: Um, I just raise the question because farmers in my state have been concerned about some of the things you are saying.
▶ 1:21:31Mr. Kennedy: I can't hear you.
▶ 1:21:33Sen. Grassley: I'm sorry. Some of the farmers in my state have been raising questions about some of the things they think you said, whether it was out of context or not, I thought I would raise this point so that you would keep by what you told us back in january at your confirmation hearing. Now, senator durbin and I have a bipartisan bill that requires price disclosures on television ads.
▶ 1:22:03Sen. Grassley: Price transparency is important in drug advertisement. I know that trump, vance, and you were all supportive of this effort. When can I expect action from this administration on requiring drug companies to publish the price of drugs in their television ads?
▶ 1:22:24Sen. Grassley: And just in case you told me that you don't think you have that authority, can you help senator durbin and I on our bill so that we can ensure that you have legal authority to require price disclosure?
▶ 1:22:38Mr. Kennedy: Senator, I think it would be good for us to talk about this offline. We are working on this in our agency and I'm happy to tell you and give you the details of what we are doing.
▶ 1:22:53Sen. Grassley: Ok. We -- a better question here. It's on transplants. Senator kennedy and I -- or senator -- senator wyden and I have been working on this for nearly two decades. I have engaged in a bipartisan oversight of the transplant system.
▶ 1:23:25Sen. Grassley: They've developed a tool to combat transplant lines skipping. I hope that you can take steps to make sure that these steps are being taken by hhs and orissa to curb transplant lines skipping.
▶ 1:23:46Sen. Grassley: On july the second, senator wyden and I wrote you a letter highlighting cases of op o's mississippi and kentucky and in each of these cases, the old po allegedly tried to harvest organs from patients still showing signs of life. I expect you to take steps from, through these organizations to make, ensure, this doesn't happen again.
▶ 1:24:16Mr. Kennedy: We have a major investigation of misconduct of illegal behavior of the organ harvesting of living people, of lying skipping, of favoritism, of all kinds of scandalous behavior inside of the organ procurement organizations. We have already terminated the contract as the sole source provider and are reorganizing the entire industry so that this can never happen again.
▶ 1:24:45Mr. Kennedy: I'm happy to go into the details with you, if I had more time.
▶ 1:24:51Senator: Thank you. Senator cornyn?
▶ 1:24:54Senator Cornyn: The united states spends approximately 18% of our gdp on health care. Yet by most accounts, we rank roughly 10th in the world in terms of the health care outcome. Our democratic colleagues seem to think that the more money that you spend, you are necessarily going to improve those outcomes.
▶ 1:25:17Senator Cornyn: But at the same time, we have the two major drivers of our national debt, social security and medicare, while we spend more money on interest on the national debt then we do on defense of the nation. Which is an unsustainable trajectory. What is it that you are doing to address the effectiveness and outcomes of our health care expenditures as opposed to just throwing more money at the problem.
▶ 1:25:48Mr. Kennedy: Throwing money at a problem doesn't work. We spend two to three times per capita what european nations spent on health care. And we have the worst health outcome. We are 79th in health outcomes, globally. Over the past 20 years, 30 years, we have lost to europe in terms of longevity. Even with europe now, we are six years behind.
▶ 1:26:18Mr. Kennedy: As I remarked to the chairman this morning, or the minority leader, biden, today we got new data that showed that infant mortality has increased in this country in 2024. For the first time in 20 years. Diabetes went up 98% over 20 years. Nobody is doing anything about it. The cdc's job was to make sure this didn't happen.
▶ 1:26:45Mr. Kennedy: And what we are going to do is reorganize cdc and we have already righted the ship at nih, fda, cms, we are ending the chronic disease epidemic. We are devoting thousands of studies. We will devote to identifying the causes and eliminating them. We are already starting. We aren't waiting for everything to come in. We are doing it now with food dyes, with dietary guidelines.
▶ 1:27:15Mr. Kennedy: We are going to get better food and better health to the american public. It is chronic disease that has bankrupted us and destroyed our national security.
▶ 1:27:25Sen. Cornyn: Seems to me that one of the biggest problems that we have in america today is the trustworthiness of the information we receive. From the news media and from any other source. Obviously the easiest thing to do is to scare people, because that is a powerful emotion, no matter the, no matter the, no matter what the facts may be.
▶ 1:27:59Sen. Cornyn: Do you believe covid-19 was politicized?
▶ 1:28:01Mr. Kennedy: The whole process was politicized, senator. We were lied to about everything. We were lied to about natural immunity. We were told again and again that the vaccines prevented infection and transmission and it wasn't true, they knew that from the start, that's what the animal clinical studies showed.
▶ 1:28:26Mr. Kennedy: We told the that you were told there was science behind cloth masks. The cdc allowed the teachers union to write the order closing or schools, herding group -- hurting working people all over the country, pretending it was science-based. I can show you. For example, chairman wyden was talking about politicizing.
▶ 1:28:53Mr. Kennedy: During covid, probably the most famous scientist came from harvard. A great, world-renowned epidemiologist. He criticized the covid booster band-aids. They ejected him because he wasn't in the orthodoxy. The two biggest health officials at fda during covid, Dr. gruber, Dr. krause, they criticized the biden mandates. The vaccine mandates.
▶ 1:29:24Mr. Kennedy: The president said in august that I would never take that trump vaccine. Then he can mean and he mandated it and he fired the two top health officials at fda who said this thing hasn't been properly tested. The whole process was politicized. Even today.
▶ 1:29:40Sen. Cornyn: Let me, I'm 15 seconds, I think you answered yes, it was politicized. Does -- I have concerns that when you look at some of the conflicts of interest in the peer-reviewed articles from professional journals, when you point out that even some of the physicians associations are conflicted because of the money that they get from the pharmaceutical industry, are you committed to trying to make sure that we use the best science?
▶ 1:30:14Sen. Cornyn: Eliminating politics as much as possible?
▶ 1:30:15Mr. Kennedy: That's my job, that's my mission. Eliminate the politics from science.
▶ 1:30:20Chair Crapo: Senator bennet?
▶ 1:30:23Senator Bennet: In june, you fired -- Mr. secretary? Mr. secretary? May I have my time back, Mr. chair? Thank you. Mr. secretary, thank you for your attention. In june, you fired every member of the well-qualified panel that was charged with recommending vaccines to the cdc. No one in your job has every fired -- ever fired every committee member all at once.
▶ 1:30:54Senator Bennet: That month you told the american people that you were going to bring great people on the panel. Not anti-vaxxers. Are you aware that one of the people you put on the panel, Dr. robert malone, claimed that the commonly used mrna vaccine causes a form of aids and can damage the brains of children, their hearts, their immune system, and their ability to have children in the future? Yes or no, Mr. kennedy?
▶ 1:31:23Mr. Kennedy: Dr. malone is one of the inventors --
▶ 1:31:27Sen. Bennet: Were you aware that he had that view when you appointed him to this panel?
▶ 1:31:32Mr. Kennedy: Dr. malone, as I said --
▶ 1:31:35Sen. Bennet: That statement --
▶ 1:31:36Mr. Kennedy: He's one of the inventors of the mrna vaccine.
▶ 1:31:40Sen. Bennet: That statement, Mr., that statement is not true, that Dr. malone made, just as it wasn't true that you wrote that african aids is entirely different from western aids. Are you aware that another one of these new members, Dr.
▶ 1:31:59Sen. Bennet: Leva, wrote that evidence is mounting and indisputable that mrna vaccines cause serious harm, including death, especially among young people? Yes or no, are you aware that he said that?
▶ 1:32:14Mr. Kennedy: I wasn't. I agree with it.
▶ 1:32:17Sen. Wyden: You agree with it, but it isn't true. It wasn't true when he said it and it is true when you said it. Later this month, your new panel will meet to consider changing vaccine recommendations for american children. In addition to the covid-19 vaccines, they are set to review recommendations for the hepatitis b vaccine, for measles, mumps, rubella, marisela vaccines, the rsv vaccine.
▶ 1:32:50Sen. Wyden: These are common back-to-school vaccinations for children all over the industrialized world. If you change that, you owe parents in colorado and across the country the benefit of some transparency I think. If you're panel recommends changing the vaccine schedule for children, do you anticipate fewer children receiving these common vaccines, vaccinations? Yes or no.
▶ 1:33:19Mr. Kennedy: What I would say --
▶ 1:33:21Sen. Wyden: The obvious answer is yes. Should the parents and schools of colorado be prepared for more measles outbreaks as a result, Mr. secretary? How about more mumps outbreaks?
▶ 1:33:34Mr. Kennedy: I don't, I do not anticipate a change in the mmr vaccine. You know, it's an independent panel.
▶ 1:33:46Sen. Wyden: It's a panel that you just put those folks on. Far from what you said, they are people with ideas outside the mainstream.
▶ 1:33:54Mr. Kennedy: You mean outside the pharmaceutical paradigm?
▶ 1:33:58Sen. Wyden: All of these vaccines that we are talking about today are free and accessible to parents today in america who have the freedom to be able to make that choice for their children. Will that be true after your handpicked panel makes their judgments about these vaccines?
▶ 1:34:15Mr. Kennedy: I think that parents should be free --
▶ 1:34:19Sen. Wyden: I know, you said it before, I do too.
▶ 1:34:23Mr. Kennedy: Will they be just
▶ 1:34:25As Free -- Sen. Bennet: So, with a be just as free?
▶ 1:34:29Mr. Kennedy: I assume they will be.
▶ 1:34:32Sen. Bennet: I will hold you to that. This is not a podcast, this is the health of american people on the line here. This is the last thing that our parents need, by the way, when kids are going back to school, to have the kind of confusion and expense and scarcity that you are creating as a result of your ideology. I think it's critical for you to share the evidence that this panel will rely on.
▶ 1:35:03Sen. Bennet: Will you give the american people six weeks in advance the record that they will rely on to make these decisions? Will you make it transparent?
▶ 1:35:11Mr. Kennedy: All the evidence is transparent.
▶ 1:35:14Sen. Wyden: Will you make it transparent in advance?
▶ 1:35:17Mr. Kennedy: It's all transparent for the first time in history. Everyone complains when the pharmaceutical I'm benny's those people and ran those products through with no safety.
▶ 1:35:29Sen. Wyden: You can characterize
▶ 1:35:31It -- Sen. Bennet: You can characterize it anyway you want. What I said was accurate and what you said were lies. Moving the titanic [indiscernible]
▶ 1:35:42Mr. Kennedy: Mrna vaccine never associated with pericarditis?
▶ 1:35:50Sen. Wyden: I'm simply trying --
▶ 1:35:54Sen. Bennet: I'm silly trying to say that the people you put on that panel after firing --
▶ 1:35:58Mr. Kennedy: You are evading the question.
▶ 1:36:00Sen. Wyden: I'm asking the questions here.
▶ 1:36:03Mr. Kennedy: You are evading my question. I asked you a question.
▶ 1:36:07Sen. Wyden: I'm asking you questions, Mr. kennedy. On behalf of parents, schools, and teachers all over the united states of america who deserve so much better than your leadership , that is what this conversation is about.
▶ 1:36:29Mr. Kennedy: They deserve the truth and that's what we are giving them for the first time in history.
▶ 1:36:36Chair Crapo: Senator cassidy?
▶ 1:36:40Senator Cassidy: I'm approaching this as a doctor, not a senator. I'm controlled -- concerned about all of our health. I applaud you for joining the president in a call for radical transparency. Thank you for that. Yesterday I said, and I believe it, that the president deserves a nobel prize for operation warp speed. If it had been president obama, he would have got that.
▶ 1:37:06Senator Cassidy: Because of operation warp speed, forcing development of vaccine than 10 months when others said it could be done, we saved millions of lives globally, trillions of dollars, reopened global economies, incredible accomplishment. Mr. secretary, do you agree with me that the president deserves a nobel prize for it?
▶ 1:37:24Mr. Kennedy: Absolutely.
▶ 1:37:25Sen. Cassidy: But let me ask you, you just told senator bennet that the covid vaccine killed more people than covid.
▶ 1:37:36Mr. Kennedy: I did not say that.
▶ 1:37:39Sen. Cassidy: Let me ask you, then, with that's a question of fact, we will check the record. As a lead attorney for the children's health defense you have engaged in multiple lawsuits attempting to restrict access to the covid vaccine. It again surprises me that you think so highly of operation warp speed when, as an attorney, you attempted to restrict access.
▶ 1:38:09Mr. Kennedy: I'm happy to explain why.
▶ 1:38:12Sen. Cassidy: I have three minutes and 30 seconds left. It also surprises me that under your direction hha canceled $500 million in contracts using the mrna vaccine platform that was critical to operation warp speed. Again, an accomplishment that I think trump should get a nobel prize for. You canceled 500 million in contracts.
▶ 1:38:39Sen. Cassidy: Now, I grew up in a middle-class family, $500 million seems like an incredible waste of money, but it also seemed like a commentary upon what the president did in operation warp speed, create a platform by which to create vaccines. So, it seems inconsistent that you agree with me that the president deserves credit for this.
▶ 1:39:03Mr. Kennedy: Is this a question, senator cassidy? Or is this a speech where you don't want me to answer? I want to answer your question, if it is a question.
▶ 1:39:13Sen. Cassidy: Please, but be tight.
▶ 1:39:15Mr. Kennedy: First of all, the reason operation warp speed was genius is it did something I don't think any other president besides trump could do, it got the vaccine to market, and it perfectly match the virus at the time and was badly needed because there was low natural immunity and people getting badly injured by covid. He also brought in therapeutics like ivermectin and protocols for treatments.
▶ 1:39:47Mr. Kennedy: And there were no mandates.
▶ 1:39:48Sen. Cassidy: I have a question, please.
▶ 1:39:52Mr. Kennedy: That's what we litigated against in the biden mandates.
▶ 1:39:56Sen. Cassidy: I'm going to go on, you covered my question.
▶ 1:40:00Mr. Kennedy: In terms of canceling those contracts --
▶ 1:40:03Sen. Cassidy: I have limited time, senator, I'm sorry. You called for, rightly so, restricted participation in the agencies for those with conflict of interest. I would like to submit for the record and evaluation of the conflict of interest of those on the vaccine related biologic products advisory board. Not 97% as alleged, it was 6.9% and 1.2% for the other half.
▶ 1:40:29Chair Crapo: Without objection.
▶ 1:40:31Sen. Cassidy: Now, I am concerned, many of those that you nominated to the board --
▶ 1:40:37Mr. Kennedy: Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.
▶ 1:40:40Sen. Cassidy: Can I have my time back?
▶ 1:40:42Mr. Kennedy: --
▶ 1:40:44Sen. Cassidy: What I am concerned about is that many of those that you nominated have received revenue serving as expert witnesses for plaintiff attorneys suing vaccine makers. Now, one of my colleagues in another setting alleged that you seemed more interested than -- in settlements than science. If we put people who are paid witnesses for vaccine -- for people suing vaccines, it seems like a conflict of interest.
▶ 1:41:15Sen. Cassidy: Real quickly, do you agree with that?
▶ 1:41:17Mr. Kennedy: No, I don't. It may be a bias, and the bias, if disclosed, is ok. It's not a conflict of interest. It's not a financial conflict of interest.
▶ 1:41:33Sen. Cassidy: Let me finish up. You also told senator wyden at the outset that you didn't want to take vaccines away from people. As I conclude, I would like to say this, because of the conflicting recommendations made around covid, this is a conservative out of atlanta, a parent that occasionally gives me health, my wife has stage iv lung cancer and is one of the people the covid vaccine helps.
▶ 1:42:01Sen. Cassidy: Thanks to the current mess at hhs, cvs is unable to get her a vaccine. Secondly, and email from a physician friend of mine. "bill, I'm not sure what I'm asking, but we are confused and concerned about who can get the covid vaccine. We are having our attorney try to render an opinion but there is no firm guidance and vaccines can be given but not on the list? Pharmacies require a prescription now even for patients over 65, creating a huge headache.
▶ 1:42:32Sen. Cassidy: May I submit these for the record? I would say that effectively we are denying people vaccines.
▶ 1:42:36Mr. Kennedy: You are wrong.
▶ 1:42:41Senator Cantwell: Following up on the same line as senator cassidy, you know, I represent one of the most science-based states in the country. That is percentage of scientists per capita. Your confirmation hearing, we ask about whether you would follow science. He made a statement here today and your testimony that you would follow science. Yet you are not following science and that was what the senator's question was a simple yes or no question.
▶ 1:43:09Senator Cantwell: Do you think that the president deserves a prize for warp speed and the mrn I -- mrna technology that saved so many lives and he won't answer that question.
▶ 1:43:18Mr. Kennedy: I answered it.
▶ 1:43:20Sen. Cantwell: You are saying that there are problems with what was interpreted. You can say yes.
▶ 1:43:26Mr. Kennedy: I said he deserves a prize. But the mrna vaccines, the ones we canceled for infections alone --
▶ 1:43:38Sen. Cantwell: You canceled $500 million in research because the mrna technology is about continuing the research to be ready for the next flu, influenza, the next pandemic.
▶ 1:43:54Mr. Kennedy: I'm happy to have a detailed discussion with you. You are so wrong.
▶ 1:43:59Sen. Cantwell: You are interrupting me, sir, and are a charlatan. You are the ones who conflate chronic disease with a need for vaccines. The history on vaccines is very clear. This is the 20th century. That's how many people had vaccines and illnesses. This is the 21st century. This is the decrease. 99% down to 100%. This is what was delivered with vaccines.
▶ 1:44:27Sen. Cantwell: And you don't want to support that. You don't want to support the evidence. So, yes, the governors of the west, washington, oregon, california, will take up the efficacy of science. Yes, the university of washington will deliver the science that america will depend on, because you don't want to depend on it.
▶ 1:44:47Sen. Cantwell: In his -- his own surgeon general of the trump administration said that over 2 million lives were saved because of the mrna technology and you don't want to continue that. You don't want to continue that technology. So, what country is now going to take up that technology? What countries want to do that? Leaving us more vulnerable to some other country keeping the advantage on having the best technology.
▶ 1:45:14Sen. Cantwell: I'm telling you, I have two other quick questions for you --
▶ 1:45:19Mr. Kennedy: Are these questions or statements, because I can answer if it's a question.
▶ 1:45:24Sen. Cantwell: Do you believe in having support for the aca, the aca that's about to expire, you believe in doing something about that?
▶ 1:45:36Mr. Kennedy: In terms of the premium tax credits? The democrats had two chances to make them permanent and they didn't.
▶ 1:45:45Sen. Cantwell: We're the ones who delivered it, so I'm wondering if you want to do something about it.
▶ 1:45:50Mr. Kennedy: I want to fix the system. That's what we do. Fix systematically to make premiums lower.
▶ 1:45:57Sen. Cantwell: Do you think that the women on the steps of the capital were a hoax yesterday?
▶ 1:46:01Mr. Kennedy: I don't know about women on the steps of the capital.
▶ 1:46:05Sen. Cantwell: The women talking about epstein, do you think they were a hoax? Do you think they were perpetrating a hoax?
▶ 1:46:11Mr. Kennedy: Perpetuating a hoax? I have no idea. This is the first I'm hearing about it.
▶ 1:46:17Sen. Cantwell: This is the first you are hearing about the women on the capitol steps saying that they believe that the epstein information should be made public? That's the first you're hearing about it? I'm saying you are perpetrating hoaxes.
▶ 1:46:33Sen. Cantwell: You, as the secretary of health, so you are undermining the whole health care delivery system and you keep trying to point to chronic disease, but you are not putting solutions on the table to cover more americans and are taking away the science and technology that has made us the leader that has saved, according to the first trump administration surgeon general, millions of lives, and you don't want to keep it going.
▶ 1:46:56Sen. Cantwell: So, no, I don't support your continued efforts as secretary and I definitely think that our colleagues need to rally around science. If you want the northwest to continue to lead on all innovation and healthy people, we will do that, but it is a sad statement for the rest of american leadership on technology. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:47:14Chair Crapo: Senator warner?
▶ 1:47:18Senator Warner: Mr. secretary, I agree with a lot of my colleagues. I had hoped, and I hadn't supported you. I thought taking on janik illness would be about kids, like we discussed when you met, I have kids that have chronic illnesses. I'm not sure that the focus on read to and seed oils is going to fully solve that problem.
▶ 1:47:44Mr. Kennedy: Of Sen. cantwell: course they won't.
▶ 1:47:47Sen. Cantwell: I will say this, that seems to be where your emphasis is. Do you accept the fact that one million americans died from covid?
▶ 1:47:55Mr. Kennedy: I don't know how many died.
▶ 1:47:58Sen. Cantwell: You're the secretary of health and human services. You don't have any a map -- idea how many americans died from covid?
▶ 1:48:06Mr. Kennedy: Nobody knows that. There was so much chaos coming out of the cdc. The incentives --
▶ 1:48:15Sen. Warner: You don't know the answer of how many americans died from covid? This is the secretary of health and human services. Do you think the vaccine did anything to prevent additional debts?
▶ 1:48:29Mr. Kennedy: I would like to see the data and talk about the data.
▶ 1:48:33Sen. Warner: You have had the job for eight months and you don't have the data and know the data?
▶ 1:48:39Mr. Kennedy: That's a problem, they didn't have the data. The data from the biden administration was dismal.
▶ 1:48:47Sen. Warner: Who's politicizing question mark you say that the biden administrator politicize all the data? Go back to the surgeon general.
▶ 1:48:56Mr. Kennedy: They fired all the people who questioned the orthodoxy. Dr. gruber, Dr. calzone, the secretary of health and human services.
▶ 1:49:07Sen. Warner: Doesn't know how many americans died from covid. Doesn't know if the vaccine helped to prevent any debts. If you are sitting as the secretary of health and human services. How can you be that ignorant? We went through the hearing with you. I asked you about health numbers. You didn't know the role. I'm visiting -- I've been visiting with you. I'm glad you got to one, community health center. What I hear from them is that they are terrified.
▶ 1:49:34Sen. Warner: With all due respect to my good friend and showman it -- chairman, the big awful bill, they are losing health care across the board. They already live in food deserts. They cannot get to a nutritionist because medicaid doesn't do enough reimbursement. Do you want americans to get healthier question mark should they have access to healthy food and good science about it?
▶ 1:50:06Mr. Kennedy: Absolutely. There are no cuts to medicaid.
▶ 1:50:10Sen. Warner: There was not a single study -- let me tell you, I was in franklin, virginia a couple of days ago. Rural hospitals going to close. The hospitals were so afraid that they wouldn't even let me have the meeting there. Afraid that that rural hospital was going to close. They were looking for where those folks would go.
▶ 1:50:34Sen. Warner: You are supposed to be doing health care policy, not being the doctor in residence for all of america. I'm still going to trust my doctor rather than your health advice. And, obviously, tom cotton, who knows who is going to trust. Going back to policy, lowering the temperature a bit, maybe.
▶ 1:50:56Sen. Warner: I've got a bipartisan bill that would be a systemic fix, not a vote buying mechanism when medicaid is getting cut. One of the things we can do, Mr. secretary, is make sure the folks who work in rural hospitals get 80% reimbursement from what folks get in more urban centers. Would you support that legislation?
▶ 1:51:19Mr. Kennedy: Are you talking about the area wage index?
▶ 1:51:25Sen. Warner: I'm talking about moving it up to 80% said that there is that ability to get rural providers.
▶ 1:51:33Mr. Kennedy: Trump supports it, we support it.
▶ 1:51:37Sen. Warner: You will work with
▶ 1:51:39Us To Mr. Kennedy: Get that past? Mr. kennedy: yes.
▶ 1:51:41Sen. Warner: No increase costs on medicare and medicaid, you are committed to that. I appreciate that. Across america, we've got a bill --
▶ 1:51:51Mr. Kennedy: What?
▶ 1:51:52Sen. Warner: Hospitals are shutting down their ob/gyn services. Try to have a baby in the south side of virginia, you can't find one at a hospital. Will you work with us to make sure that before those services are taken out of a hospital there is a process and a procedure?
▶ 1:52:10Mr. Kennedy: I'm happy to work with you, meet with you, see what the issue is, I don't know exactly what it is.
▶ 1:52:21Sen. Warner: Again, the secretary of health and human services who said that he doesn't know if the vaccine saved lives, doesn't know if ob/gyn doctors -- they can't afford it in rural america. With these cuts coming up it will be exponentially worse. Sir, I would invite you to come to -- with me to a community health center in virginia to hear what's on the minds of people. Want to get healthier? Absolutely, count me in.
▶ 1:52:50Sen. Warner: But they also don't want basic health removed. Senator lankford?
▶ 1:52:58Senator Lankford: Good to see you again. As I travel around oklahoma, it was great to be home. Several folks contacted me from rural hospitals. They are looking forward to those $50 billion from the one big beautiful bill. I know that you are quickly getting all of the instructions out on that. It was good to be able to visit and talk about that. They were pleased. Thank you for the work we did on that.
▶ 1:53:26Senator Lankford: I met with the groups that do incredible medical research on this. Those have been released and I'm grateful to be able to see that. It's amazing medical research that's happening with longitudinal studies in they need those dollars. I appreciate you all getting those released out here.
▶ 1:53:45Senator Lankford: I want to talk about one of these issues from a lot of our hospitals where they raised the issue of medicare advantage plans and how they are withholding payments, delaying payments back to hospitals and the problems it has been for rural hospitals. I know y'all working on that. We want to work with y'all on that.
▶ 1:54:05Senator Lankford: But the pharmacy benefit managers, during the confirmation process, it was interesting, when we met in my office you said that every single senator brought this up to you and you made the statement during the confirmation process that this isn't an area of the president wants to take on. It's unfinished business in the committee, but I wanted to know what hhs is doing on this in particular at this moment to make sure we are not driving out rural pharmacies and what we can do to make sure it's fair.
▶ 1:54:35Mr. Kennedy: It's a priority for the president. He talks to me about it at least once a week. Sometimes at 11:00 at night. And we are -- we have met with the pdm's and we are in talks with them.
▶ 1:54:55Mr. Kennedy: We are also in -- in mfn talks with pharmaceutical companies, who are also very interested in, in reducing the cut and getting transparency among the pdm's. They have committed to us to transparency, to some protocol that will guarantee transparency.
▶ 1:55:22Mr. Kennedy: Part of those negotiations include direct to consumer marketing to eliminate the middleman. So, I think we are doing a lot there.
▶ 1:55:31Sen. Lankford: That would be helpful to see in terms of consumers across the country on this. You and I have spoken on this, fda commissioner's have made statements on reviewing the safety issues around mifepristone. Your comments early on was that every drug needs to be treated the same and not have a political bias on how things are examined. There were a lot of changes on the allocation of mifepristone for elective abortions under the biden administration.
▶ 1:56:02Sen. Lankford: It is now open to anyone without a prescription, you have to go through a doctor, all kinds of issues are happening now. The question was, you said that there would be a reveal in terms of working on it and following the safety protocols. Do you know the timing of that review?
▶ 1:56:21Mr. Kennedy: I can't give you the exact timing. Marty said it's progressing. That we are getting data in all the time, new data that we are reviewing. We know that during the biden administration they actually twisted the data to bury one of the safety signals, one of the highest safety signals was around 11%.
▶ 1:56:47Mr. Kennedy: So, we are going to make sure that doesn't happen anymore, we are producing honest gold standard science on that and I will keep you abreast of where we are.
▶ 1:56:57Sen. Lankford: During the biden administration, the title x regulation requiring title x programs to physically and financially separate from abortion activities, eliminating them promoting or providing abortion with those funds was flipped from the original trump rule done on the first presidency. During the confirmation you committed to going back to look at that again.
▶ 1:57:24Sen. Lankford: My question is, do you know the timeline for agency action for when the rule in title x and the separation of payment rule will be reviewed or will be reinstated to the original trump rule under his first presidency?
▶ 1:57:39Mr. Kennedy: I don't know. I don't know the answer to your question, if they are revealing the rule right now. I can tell you that the ngo's that had that issue that refused to separate their payments into streams, separate their operations, they are not getting funded.
▶ 1:58:04Sen. Lankford: Keeping those things separate was an issue under the law, so look forward to that. Chairman? Senator hassan?
▶ 1:58:13Senator Hassan: Good morning, secretary kennedy. Before I ask a question, in response to the sec.'s statement that the trump administration wants to lower the costs of health insurance, across the country right now the median increase for commercial insurance we are seeing this fall is 18%, just as families are struggling to make ends meet.
▶ 1:58:38Senator Hassan: Following up on that line of question that senator cassidy began, trump said that the covid-19 vaccine produced by operation warp speed was, the president's words, a monumental national achievement. Although I strongly oppose many of his actions, I agree with them, operation warp speed in 2020 a monumental achievement.
▶ 1:59:02Senator Hassan: Unfortunately, you are undermining one of the biggest achievements of the president, which as the president said saved millions of american lives. He went so far as to call trump week for this life-saving accomplishment. Last year you tweeted that he has a weakness first swamp creatures and that operation warp speed was among "the most devastating impact of trump's weakness." Mr.
▶ 1:59:30Senator Hassan: Secretary, was operation warp speed a monumental national achievement as the president said?
▶ 1:59:35Mr. Kennedy: For the reason I already said and I assume you won't let me repeat but I am happy to if you want, yes it was.
▶ 1:59:43Sen. Hassan: Assuming it is a monumental achievement, which you said it was, is it true that as trump has said, he saved millions of american lives with the covid-19 vaccine? You expressed great confusion about that to senator warren.
▶ 2:00:04Mr. Kennedy: My only confusion was about how many lives were saved.
▶ 2:00:09Sen. Hassan: Multiple studies have showed that the vaccine reduce infections and severe to diseases and saved at least 3 million lives in the united states and millions more abroad in the first two years of the pandemic.
▶ 2:00:22Mr. Kennedy: Those are modeling studies.
▶ 2:00:25Sen. Hassan: Nope. I will also note that as you have been talking about data, the process for covid vaccine approval was public, it was livestreamed, and it was out in the open. Manufacturers and experts publicly submitted data analysis and when the fda asked for more, they submitted more. They have done that for years. The evidence is clear and supports what trump said, the vaccine worked and saved millions of lives.
▶ 2:00:55Sen. Hassan: Your own process on the other hand has not been transparent. You have repeatedly chosen to ignore data because it doesn't match your preconceived notions and lies. So, you have said that the vaccine saved lives. You said it was a monumental achievement.
▶ 2:01:12Sen. Hassan: Given that, if you agree with the president that the vaccine saved millions of lives, why have you acted behind closed doors to overrule scientists and limit the freedom of parents to choose the covid vaccine for their children? Why have you done that?
▶ 2:01:32Mr. Kennedy: For the covid vaccine question mark that was removed by fda.
▶ 2:01:37Sen. Hassan: Behind closed doors, scientists who said they wanted to brief you on the science, science is wanted to understand why the fda, why you unilaterally changed the parameters for giving vaccines, making it possible now to the points of the senators colleagues that they will have to go off label --
▶ 2:02:01Mr. Kennedy: This is crazy talk, you are making stuff up.
▶ 2:02:05Sen. Hassan: I'm not making things up. Do you know how the fda approval process works? Do you know what off label prescriptions are?
▶ 2:02:13Mr. Kennedy: I know exact how it works. I know exactly how it works.
▶ 2:02:17Sen. Hassan: So, why behind closed doors --
▶ 2:02:21Mr. Kennedy: It's not behind closed doors. The industry couldn't provide a study saying it was effective for healthy kids.
▶ 2:02:34Sen. Hassan: When did you produce that data? It was behind closed doors in the parents who decide they want their children to participate --
▶ 2:02:42Mr. Kennedy: You are just making stuff up. Sometimes you are making stuff up.
▶ 2:02:47Sen. Hassan: Sometimes when you make an accusation, Mr. kennedy, it's a bit of a confession. So, here's what's going to happen. To the point of senator warner in the parents who are concerned around the country, to the people who want to get the covid vaccine this fall, even if they are under 65, because the boosters have worked and there has been much more serious disease and people don't have the same level of threat and risk from covid that they use to because of these vaccines, people who want to exercise
▶ 2:03:18Sen. Hassan: Freedom of choice are being denied that freedom. Because you are citing data that you will not release to the public. You are rejecting --
▶ 2:03:27Mr. Kennedy: Making things up. Making things up to scare people. It's alive.
▶ 2:03:32Sen. Hassan: With respect, I'm not the one making things up.
▶ 2:03:36Mr. Kennedy: You are lying now, senator.
▶ 2:03:39Chair Crapo: Senator barrasso?
▶ 2:03:43Senator Barrasso: I believe that one of trump's greatest achievements was his bold action on took -- on covid. He didn't back down and was determined to find a cure. The vaccine was developed and distributed safely and effectively and I believe it saved many, many lives. I think it's a model of american ingenuity and public-private partnership. But it wasn't the first time that american president acted boldly to address vaccines.
▶ 2:04:17Senator Barrasso: By wit -- rick atkinson there were courageous efforts from george washington and in the revolutionary war he was -- reversed his opposition to the small pap -- smallpox vaccine and ordered the soldiers to be vaccinated. It was one of his most consequential decisions. By protecting his troops, he preserved the continental army, allowing our nation to continue to fight for our independence.
▶ 2:04:42Senator Barrasso: Like trump, I think that washington acted decisively to protect the lives of americans at a time of great national peril. So, for the last 50 years vaccines are estimated to have saved 150 4 million lives worldwide. I'm a doctor, I support vaccines. They work. Secretary kennedy, in your confirmation hearing you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I have grown deeply concerned.
▶ 2:05:12Senator Barrasso: The public has seen measles outbreaks. Leadership questioning the use of mrna vaccines. The recently confirmed director of the centers of disease control and prevention fired. Americans don't know who to rely on. Recent polls say that 81% of trump voters agree vaccine recommendations should come from trained physicians, scientists, and public health experts. So, they believe me when it comes to vaccines.
▶ 2:05:40Senator Barrasso: If we are going to make america healthy again, we cannot allow public health to be undermined. Could you explain the steps you are going to be taking to make sure vaccine guidance is clear, evidence-based, and trustworthy?
▶ 2:05:55Mr. Kennedy: We will make it that way for the first time in history. For most, right now, you know what? When I was a kid, I was fully compliant and had three vaccines . Today's general trend is between 69 and 92 vaccines in order to be fully compliant, between maternity and 18 years. Only one of those 19 vaccines, 92 doses, only one of those vaccines is a placebo.
▶ 2:06:28Mr. Kennedy: What we are doing now is that any new vaccine, before it is approved and licensed, they will have to show, demonstrate against placebo. We will go back and do observational studies on the existing vaccines to see if they are linked to these chronic diseases so that people can understand the risk profile of those products and make good assessments for their own health.
▶ 2:06:54Sen. Barrasso: In two weeks vaccine experts are coming together to discuss these recommendations. Parents and positions require this to keep kids safe and as I said, I support vaccines. I've heard from many of my medical colleagues, people I knew from school and residency. They have real concerns that safe and proven vaccines like meat is -- measles, hepatitis, could be in jeopardy, putting americans at risk and reversing decades of progress.
▶ 2:07:24Sen. Barrasso: As we have seen over the last four years, the previous administration, when recommendations became politicized or were swayed by bias, public trust is lost. What safeguards are in place to ensure that decisions are based solely on science and not politics? How are you going to make sure that doctors and parents and parents in cap fcc guidance?
▶ 2:07:46Mr. Kennedy: I'm pointing this out, right now there is only 10% of children who are compliant with cdc recommendations on covid boosters. Only 15% of health-care workers. Americans have lost faith in cdc. We need to restore that fate and we will do that by telling the truth and not through propaganda. By forcing them to understand that everything we say is true.
▶ 2:08:14Mr. Kennedy: We are going to tell them what we know, what we don't know, and what we are researching and how we are doing it and we will be transparent. It's the only way to restore trust and the agency, making it trustworthy.
▶ 2:08:27Sen. Barrasso: Like you, I am committed to addressing the growing rate of our national chronic diseases. If we are going to make america healthy again, we need to support rural primary health care providers to make sure that we can prevent and manage chronic diseases in their communities and I ask for your continued work with us on rural health.
▶ 2:08:51Mr. Kennedy: Thank you, congressman.
▶ 2:09:02Sen. Daines: It is good to see you here today. I want to talk about the issue of federal the regulation of chemical abortion drugs. Since mifepristone was approved 25 years ago, the no longer requiring a doctor's prescription, no follow-up
▶ 2:09:34Sen. Daines: Visits, no adverse event reporting and now allowing it to be sent through the mail. Earlier this year there was a new study that analyzed 865,000 real-world insurance claims and it found that nearly 11% of women experienced a serious adverse event within 45 days of taking mifepristone.
▶ 2:10:06Sen. Daines: To put that in perspective, that is 22 times higher than the fda's long-standing estimate of less than 0.5%. While these findings alone are shocking, my conversations with those in the medical profession, credible medical professionals lead me to believe that even this study may underrepresented
▶ 2:10:37Sen. Daines: The scale of the problem. For years we heard the misleading and frankly harmful lie that is being sold to women that this drug is "safe as tylenol." these lies have real-world consequences. Last year two women died as a result of taking chemical abortion pills because they were able to access them without appropriate medical oversight.
▶ 2:11:08Sen. Daines: By the way, that is all allowed by the fda. Mr. secretary, I am grateful that you and the fda commissioner have already begun the processes of reviewing this data. We talked about this during your confirmation hearing.
▶ 2:11:30Sen. Daines: The question is could you provide any updates on the status and the scope of that review and whether the fda intends to replicate studies like the one that I referenced.
▶ 2:11:44Mr. Kennedy: I don't know if they are going to do an insurance claim study. That is one way to do it. I don't know exactly whether they are doing epidemiological studies are observational studies. I don't know exactly what they are doing. I talked to marty mike carey about it yesterday and he said those studies and are progressing and they are ongoing.
▶ 2:12:16Sen. Daines: I had a really constructive conversation with the fda commissioner as well. Here is a smart data focused sincere type of leader. I want to encourage those conversations with you, secretary and there is a follow-up to make sure that the data that we have exposed will be studied by the fda and the appropriate actions considered.
▶ 2:12:49Sen. Daines: Given the legitimate safety concerns surrounding mifepristone and your actions to roll back other covid emergency measures, will you repeal the covid-era telemedicine allowance given that we are repealing these covid area emergency measures, would you repeal the covid era telemedicine allowance for chemical abortion drugs and restore the requirement for in
▶ 2:13:22Sen. Daines: Person Dr. visit?
▶ 2:13:25Mr. Kennedy: I need to get back to you on that. I don't know if the white house has taken a position on that. We will get back to you this week about that.
▶ 2:13:34Sen. Daines: Thank you. I want to close with a quick question. The state of montana submitted a medicaid demonstration waiver application to strengthen the medicaid expansion program. This waiver seeks to require community engagement and enhance cost for working-class able-bodied adults. I applaud our government -- governor and the director for their leadership in this space.
▶ 2:14:07Sen. Daines: Could you commit that cms will work quickly in the consideration of the waiver application?
▶ 2:14:11Mr. Kennedy: Absolutely. It sounds like the kind of waiver we are looking for.
▶ 2:14:17Sen. Daines: Thank you. Chair
▶ 2:14:18Crapo: Senator johnson.
▶ 2:14:23Sen. Johnson: Thank you for your willingness to serve. 5 minutes is not even close to refute all of the falsehoods that have been spewed during this hearing. We will talk about that. First of all, thank you for breaking the logjam of information at hhs. My committee has over 8 million pages of information.
▶ 2:14:52Sen. Johnson: What we discovered is that somebody in those agencies hit the signal -- hid the signal. They admitted that there was a signal and they hid it. They did not want the public or doctors. That is one instance of corruption and lies told by the cdc. We've got a lot of others we will be rolling out. We had our first hearing on that hiding. We have heard a lot of studies.
▶ 2:15:26Sen. Johnson: As I have looked into studies it has been fairly corrected. Here is data. I would like to enter this sheet into the record. We have been publishing this chart since 2021. On talk radio shows they talk about this, they get the-plot -- de-platformed. Here are the facts.
▶ 2:15:55Sen. Johnson: A great safety surveillance system on covid. A few months later when they did not like the results, they started denigrating their own system. There had been 30,472 deaths reported worldwide associated with the covid vaccine. 9252 of those deaths occurred on the day of vaccination or within one to two days.
▶ 2:16:23Sen. Johnson: I agree, nobody knows how many covid deaths because the information was completely corrupted. Nobody knows how many lives were saved. Most people, if you are vulnerable, raise your antibodies, or severity. Fine. There is not a good study on that. It is just claims being made. This is hard evidence.
▶ 2:16:49Sen. Johnson: What I have been advocating for are injection injured, the childhood vaccine injured. We will be holding a hearing next tuesday on a study done by a high integrity healthcare facility that shows -- a very high quality study. I will not steal the thunder of who will be testifying on this.
▶ 2:17:19Sen. Johnson: It shows the vaccinated population far more prone to chronic illness than people completely unexposed to vaccines. That is just one example of how science has been corrupted. The study was conducted, no matter what the results are, we will release this. They got the results in 2000. It is yet to be released. We will enter that to the record on tuesday.
▶ 2:17:47Sen. Johnson: Will you talk about what you've witnessed in terms of the capture of the agencies you are now in charge of, the corruption of science which I believe you just said, that is your number one goal. To bring integrity back to science which has been corrupted by the people who pay for it, by federal health agencies being captured by pharmaceutical industries, by big pharma, big food.
▶ 2:18:13Sen. Johnson: I am sorry, I want to give you the last minute to defend yourself and talk about the corruption of science you are trying to correct.
▶ 2:18:20Mr. Kennedy: I will tell you one example. I could give you thousands. In 2002, the cdc did an internal study of fulton county, georgia children. The children who got the vaccine on time and compared those to kids who got them later. In other words, kids who got them before 36 months and kids who got them afterward.
▶ 2:18:51Mr. Kennedy: The data from that study shows that black boys who got the vaccine on time had a 260% greater chance of getting an autism diagnosis than children who waited.
▶ 2:19:08Mr. Kennedy: The chief scientist, the senior scientist was ordered to come into the room with four other co-authors by his who is the head of the immunization safety branch and ordered to destroy that data. They published it without that fact. You know that story. I know that story. You know of hundreds of stories like that. It happens all the time.
▶ 2:19:37Mr. Kennedy: We are being lied to by these agencies and we are going to change that right now. >> I just wanted to enter that to the record as well.
▶ 2:19:55Chair Crapo: Without objection. The committee will take a five minute break. Just a moment of reset. We will start back up again in five minutes.
▶ 2:24:05Chair Crapo: Sen. lankford thank you. Senator whitehouse is recognized for questions.
▶ 2:24:16Sen. Whitehouse: I want to talk to you about rhode island. When you were left sitting there here is what I said to you. I will read it back to you. I want it to sink in. Cms has maintained a system that the bureaucracy could never explain, never justify, that consistently pays rhode island providers list than neighboring massachusetts and connecticut providers. A difference of 23% and 20 6% in our regional healthcare market.
▶ 2:24:48Sen. Whitehouse: Rhode island's healthcare system is bleeding out because we are not paid what neighboring hospitals and doctors are paid and the one act that cms took on this issue years ago was to make it worse. I raised that with you then. I have raised it with Dr.'s, director -- Dr. oz, director sutton.
▶ 2:25:18Sen. Whitehouse: One partial avenue of relief for rhode island is the go ahead program. Rhode island is a willing voluntary participant in the go ahead program. Coming behind rhode island is connecticut. What remains to be seen is whether the payment rates agreed to for rhode island will suffer the same discriminatory discount with respect to the ahead rates for connecticut as connecticut comes through.
▶ 2:25:49Sen. Whitehouse: I have been able to get no assurances that they care about the payment differential or that they see ahead as a means of resolving this injustice. Mr. kennedy, our healthcare system is teetering as a result. This is not a casual matter. I would really like to see you and Dr. oz and Mr. dutton put your attention on this.
▶ 2:26:19Sen. Whitehouse: There is no note of -- justification to pay a hospital over the river more when the rhode island hospital provides better service as recognized by the secret service which were taken injured president to the rhode island trauma center flying right over saint anne's hospital. It makes no sense and it has to be resolved.
▶ 2:26:44Sen. Whitehouse: The other problem that I mentioned to you is that I am now in my fourth round of directors. It is bloody groundhog day trying to get something done about how end-of-life patients are treated. I am offering rhode island as a willing example of how we can do it better.
▶ 2:27:06Sen. Whitehouse: It is idiotic and cool to force a family to put their dying loved one through three days and two nights of a hospital before they can put them in a nursing home. It is equally ridiculous to not allow palliative care to happen together with cumulative care. Providing home care when someone is dying even if they can still get out of the house or into the yard, it is a basic thing to ask.
▶ 2:27:30Sen. Whitehouse: To have resident care beats a person who comes to the house instead of taking a dying family member to a hospital. That is not even respite. Every of these waivers has been granted in the past by cms and other circumstances. All I want is for somebody to come and work out how we do this in rhode island. What is our patient base? How we put the waivers together. To quote your cms director Dr.
▶ 2:28:06Sen. Whitehouse: Oz, he said "as we discussed in your office we must address how cms care works." I hope that you will concede that right now it is not good. We need you to respond. You guys know where to find me. You have reached out.
▶ 2:28:30Sen. Whitehouse: We have tried for meetings and the progress in all three of those areas, fixing the payment gap, getting ahead balanced and following through on our desire to do good things, improving end of life care with waivers already granted, has gotten me no place so far. Forgive my inpatients. A lot of it predates you. I put a hold on by the nominees because I was being jerked around by your bureaucracy. I would like to end.
▶ 2:29:01Mr. Kennedy: Senator, you raised this during my confirmation hearing and I said to you then and you were very civil. You raised something that makes a lot of sense to the extent that we have the power to fix as I would like to do it. I have had the same complaints from vermont. I said to you at that time call me and let's talk about this. You have my cell phone.
▶ 2:29:32Mr. Kennedy: I have not heard from you in seven months. Call me up. I would love to meet with you. I will get Dr. oz in the meeting. It may be something we can do something about. I want to help. Let me know.
▶ 2:29:51Sen. Whitehouse: We will try. Forgive my frustration. You have thousands of employees that could have reached out to me. Then know where I live.
▶ 2:29:58Chair Crapo: Senator cortez masto.
▶ 2:30:01Sen. Cortez Masto: Sec. Thank you for being here. In may you said, "I stand with president trump to say no more middlemen, no more foreign freeloaders, no more skyrocketing drug prices. We are putting american patients first and taking on big pharma to make america healthy again." but your record tells a different story. In july republicans handled -- handed big pharma a massive win.
▶ 2:30:29Sen. Cortez Masto: The trip they just passed shields a billion dollar drugs like the world's top-selling cancer drug for medicare negotiation. It has been on the market since 2014. It pulled in nearly $18 billion last year in the united states alone.
▶ 2:30:48Sen. Cortez Masto: It costs patients 175 thousand dollars per year, draining miller care -- medicare of millions and forcing families to forgo lifesaving care but you support the big beautiful bill. Despite the height with executive order's and washington republicans relying on high cost cancer drugs, meanwhile democrats finally have allowed medicare to negotiate drug prices.
▶ 2:31:17Sen. Cortez Masto: I will say that keytruda along with others, the three top-selling cancer drugs were selected for negotiation for 2 028 implementation. They are now because of the actions of this administration exempt from negotiation for several additional years if not permanently.
▶ 2:31:46Sen. Cortez Masto: My question for you is how do you justify claiming to take on big pharma while supporting a bill that shields drugs like keytruda from negotiation, costing taxpayers billions and risking the lives of cancer patients who cannot afford the necessary medication?
▶ 2:32:01Mr. Kennedy: I appreciate the question. The medicare drug negotiations and the ira are very well-intentioned but they were poorly structured. They have negotiations that have occurred that have ended up raising the cost for medicare.
▶ 2:32:25Sen. Cortez Masto: The cbo has not agreed to that. Are you seeing the cbo's are wrong?
▶ 2:32:34Mr. Kennedy: That is cms data.
▶ 2:32:36Sen. Cortez Masto: Let's focus on the cancer drugs. Why aren't we negotiating those to bring them down for families? Why does the bill exempt those?
▶ 2:32:45Mr. Kennedy: It is part of the negotiations. I am not sure if that provision in the bill --
▶ 2:32:51Sen. Cortez Masto: You are not sure of the negotiation provision to exempt keytruda? Your agency is responsible for that negotiation and you don't know about it?
▶ 2:33:00Mr. Kennedy: I know that we are negotiating --
▶ 2:33:05Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me ask you another question. How much are medicare part d enrollees expected to pay for prescription drug coverage next year?
▶ 2:33:21Mr. Kennedy: I think that is in debate right now.
▶ 2:33:26Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me tell you. They are going to pay $15 more than last year, $50 per month. Let me have another question. How much are medicare part b premiums expected to increase next year?
▶ 2:33:40Mr. Kennedy: I don't know.
▶ 2:33:45Sen. Cortez Masto: 11.6% or $21.50 more each month. Last time you were before me you cannot answer the questions of the very agency, the authority that you have to address these issues.
▶ 2:34:03Sen. Cortez Masto: Next year seniors and families are facing higher healthcare costs across the board, 23 million on medicare with the stand-alone part d drug plan could see premiums rise to $50 per month, up from $35 because the trump administration is cutting the subsidy that has been keeping costs down. Part b premiums will jump 11.6% to $206 per month in 2026, one of the largest single year increases in decades.
▶ 2:34:31Sen. Cortez Masto: For them to an administration that claims it is lowering costs, my question to you is what are you going to do to keep costs down for seniors?
▶ 2:34:38Mr. Kennedy: I am already doing -- I am already keeping costs down.
▶ 2:34:44Sen. Cortez Masto: What are you doing to keep costs down for seniors knowing that they will be increasing?
▶ 2:34:48Mr. Kennedy: The program integrity bill that is the first action that I did when I got in. It is one of the earliest actions in history of a complex regulation by an hhs secretary. The congressional budget office says it brought premiums down by 5%. That is the congressional budget office which does not like to acknowledge anything that we do.
▶ 2:35:12Sen. Cortez Masto: Does that impact seniors?
▶ 2:35:14Mr. Kennedy: Excuse me?
▶ 2:35:16Sen. Cortez Masto: Does that impact seniors. My time is running out. What you just talked about, I'm asking you specifically. Does it impact seniors?
▶ 2:35:25Mr. Kennedy: Does it impact --?
▶ 2:35:28Sen. Cortez Masto: Time is running out. I appreciate the chairman's indulgence. My concern is you cannot answer the question for the very agency that has oversight over these issues and controls the leverage for seniors and you cannot answer that question.
▶ 2:35:43Mr. Kennedy: I need to know what your question is.
▶ 2:35:47Chair Crapo: We will proceed. Senator tillis has yielded his position to senator blackburn.
▶ 2:35:53Sen. Blackburn: Thank you Mr. chairman. Mr. secretary thank you for joining us today. I appreciate the comments you made about the rural health transformation program. That is something many of us worked on. We were pleased to push that out of this committee. I know Dr. oz is moving forward with implementing that. I appreciate your comments to senator warner on the area wage index. We have worked on fixing that.
▶ 2:36:24Sen. Blackburn: We appreciate your attention. I am delighted to know that you are going to end the revolving door in the conflicts of interest. I have found it so unseemly that people who work with a pharmaceutical or big food company then go back over into cdc or nih or fda and then they are signing off on regulation for their former employer and many times their future employer.
▶ 2:36:56Sen. Blackburn: So we appreciate that. Senator lankford went to you on the pbm's. As you are aware, my pbm act that senator wyden worked with me on that made it out of this committee last cycle, making certain that we keep these rural pharmacies open, making certain that pbm's do not profit above what is their standard service fee and that they have to
▶ 2:37:27Sen. Blackburn: Disclose all their pricing. That is going to be an imperative. Will you work with us to get the pbm legislation across the finish line and to the president's desk?
▶ 2:37:40Mr. Kennedy: Absolutely.
▶ 2:37:42Sen. Blackburn: Thank you. Interoperability is something that you have announced, a new interoperability framework to better align datasharing principles. This is important to digital health.
▶ 2:38:03Sen. Blackburn: As you are aware, when we passed 21st century cures in 2018, the software act and that the definition is something I worked tirelessly on to get implemented.
▶ 2:38:18Sen. Blackburn: What I want to hear from you is how does cms plan to align this new framework with the existing federal framework and how are we going to be able to move forward with one national policy on interoperability?
▶ 2:38:35Mr. Kennedy: I don't know if we -- what we have right now is concrete commitments from the tech companies who we were able to convene to do data sharing, to do patient accessibility and to do interoperability. I cannot tell you how that is going to mesh.
▶ 2:39:02Sen. Blackburn: If you will have someone submit to me in writing what that pathway is, this is something that is essential if we are going to be able to benefit from that data so having some specificity on the pathway will be helpful. I didn't want to talk to you. The last time you were here I talked about the concerns on overprescribing prescription-stimulant drugs for children.
▶ 2:39:33Sen. Blackburn: There are ways that hhs can work collaboratively with state agencies on this and actually promote more community-based intervention to combat overprescribing. We all have seen the harmful side effects and there is a lot of recording -- reporting out there on this and tremendous concern for grandmothers like me who have seen children and friends of grandchildren who suffer with this.
▶ 2:40:06Sen. Blackburn: I know your team is working on solutions so you are going to have your make our children healthy again strategy that you are going to release. But talk for a moment, we have 30 seconds left. Talk for a moment on how you can better arm parents with information on the harmful side effects of overprescribing these stimulant drugs.
▶ 2:40:30Mr. Kennedy: One of the problems , senator, we know that one out of every five kids on these drugs and antidepressants even more. We know very little about the long-term impacts because nih and cdc have been asleep at the wheel.
▶ 2:40:55Mr. Kennedy: Right now we are doing those studies so that we can warn parents and force companies to put labels on their products. We will do whatever we can to show that, just to get data out to the public. That is what our function is and the long-term impact of some of these drugs. Are we actually preventing suicide or are we creating more suicide?
▶ 2:41:26Mr. Kennedy: That is something that we don't know the answer to. How did these drugs become so common in our society without even knowing the answers to those questions? That is malpractice at these agencies and that is the malpractice that I'm going to fix.
▶ 2:41:43Chair Crapo: Senator warren.
▶ 2:41:45Sen. Warren: Thank you Mr. chairman. While you are under consideration to become secretary of health and human services, you said, "if that is working for somebody, I am not going to take them away." you would not take away vaccines for anyone who wanted them. Last week you announced the covid vaccine is no longer approved for healthy people under the age of 65.
▶ 2:42:18Sen. Warren: In announcing the change you said the vaccine would be available for anyone who wants it. Obviously both things cannot be true at the same moment. Let's clear this up right now, secretary kennedy. Will you tell america that all adults and all children over six months of age are eligible to get a covid booster at their local pharmacy today?
▶ 2:42:41Mr. Kennedy: Anybody can get the booster.
▶ 2:42:44Sen. Warren: I'm sorry?
▶ 2:42:46Mr. Kennedy: Anybody can get the booster.
▶ 2:42:48Sen. Warren: Anybody. So you are saying that is the official rule of hhs, anybody is eligible to get a booster if I walk into the pharmacy?
▶ 2:42:56Mr. Kennedy: It is not recommended for healthy people.
▶ 2:42:58Sen. Warren: If you don't recommend, then the consequence of that in many states is that you cannot walk into a pharmacy and get one. It means insurance companies do not have to cover the $200 cost. As senator Dr. cassidy said, you are effectively denying people vaccines.
▶ 2:43:18Mr. Kennedy: I am not going to recommend a product for which there is no clinical data for that indication. Is that what I should be doing?
▶ 2:43:25Sen. Warren: What you should be doing is honoring your promise that you made when you were looking to get confirmed in this job and that is you promised that you would not take away vaccines from anyone who wanted them. You just changed the classification of the covid vaccine.
▶ 2:43:45Mr. Kennedy: I am not taking it away from people, senator.
▶ 2:43:48Sen. Warren: It takes it away if you cannot get it from your pharmacist.
▶ 2:43:51Mr. Kennedy: Most americans will get it from there pharmacy for free. Most americans will be able to get it for free.
▶ 2:43:59Sen. Warren: My question is everyone who wants it. That was your promise.
▶ 2:44:02Mr. Kennedy: I never promised that I was going to recommend products for which there is no indication.
▶ 2:44:08Sen. Warren: When you said --
▶ 2:44:10Mr. Kennedy: I know you have taken $855,000 from pharmaceutical companies, senator.
▶ 2:44:16Sen. Warren: Did you hold up a big sign saying that you are lying when you said that because you are the one who said you would not take them away. Now, senator kennedy, --
▶ 2:44:28Mr. Kennedy: I am not taking it away. You want me to indicate a product for which there is no clinical data? Is that what you want?
▶ 2:44:35Sen. Warren: Secretary kennedy, you said you would not and now you did.
▶ 2:44:39Mr. Kennedy: Everybody can get access to them.
▶ 2:44:41Sen. Warren: No, they cannot walk into a pharmacy of the way that they could last month and get access --
▶ 2:44:48Mr. Kennedy: It depends on the states, but they can still get it. Everybody can get it, senator.
▶ 2:44:57Sen. Warren: Let's move on. You clearly are taking away vaccines. I have seen the list for what is coming up next and that is the agenda for the next cdc vaccine panel. First up is ratifying your covid actions. Second is hepatitis b is on the agenda. Should americans expect you to take away hepatitis vaccine access as well, even though you promised not to?
▶ 2:45:25Mr. Kennedy: I am not taking vaccines away from anybody.
▶ 2:45:29Sen. Warren: Same answer. You are just going to deny when people cannot get access, that you are not taking it away. Let me ask you, is that the same game you are going to play --
▶ 2:45:41Mr. Kennedy: So you want me to recommend every product in the world -- without any clinical trial data?
▶ 2:45:48Sen. Warren: I want you to follow through on your promises. One month ago we could get covid vaccines by just walking into a pharmacy.
▶ 2:45:57Mr. Kennedy: You can still get pharmacy vaccines, senator. You can still get the covid vaccine. Medicare will still pay for them.
▶ 2:46:06Sen. Warren: Did you tell the head of the cdc that if she refused to sign off on your changes to the childhood vaccine schedule, that she had to resign?
▶ 2:46:14Mr. Kennedy: No, I told her she had to resign because I asked her, are you a trustworthy person and she said no. If you had an employee who told you they were not trustworthy, would you ask them to resign, senator?
▶ 2:46:32Sen. Warren: I'm sorry, but this is not what she has said publicly.
▶ 2:46:37Mr. Kennedy: I am not surprised about that.
▶ 2:46:39Sen. Warren: So you are saying she's lying?
▶ 2:46:42Mr. Kennedy: Yes. Every conversation I had with her--
▶ 2:46:46Sen. Warren: This is the same person that less than a month earlier you stood next to her and described her as unimpeachable and you have full confidence in her and that you had full confidence in her scientific credentials. In a month, she became a liar?
▶ 2:47:07Mr. Kennedy: A month ago voting against her because you thought she was either incompetent, ineligible or unsuited to the task. Now I agree.
▶ 2:47:19Sen. Warren: I was afraid she was going to been the knee to you and donald trump and it looks like she did not bend the knee so you fired her. You are putting american babies health at risk, american seniors health at risk, all americans health at risk and you should resign.
▶ 2:47:36Chair Crapo: Senator sanders.
▶ 2:47:41Sen. Sanders: I just wanted to pick up on senator warren's point. Are you telling us that the former head of the cdc went to you, you asked her are you a trustworthy person, and she said no, I am not a trustworthy person?
▶ 2:47:54Mr. Kennedy: She did not say no, I'm not a trustworthy person. She said no. I'm ending the quote.
▶ 2:48:02Sen. Sanders: You are repeating now that she is a liar, correct?
▶ 2:48:07Mr. Kennedy: If she wrote that I fired her because she refused to sign on in advance for the committee that is not accurate.
▶ 2:48:18Sen. Sanders: So you are calling her a liar. I look forward to her coming before the health committee and maybe this committee as well. Mr. secretary, I have a bunch of questions. I appreciate your brevity in answering. The so-called big beautiful bill took 15 million americans off of healthcare, substantially raised premiums and it is going to have a terrible impact on nursing homes, community health centers, rural hospitals all over america.
▶ 2:48:47Sen. Sanders: Very briefly, it is not really -- is that really making america healthy again?
▶ 2:48:52Mr. Kennedy: It is going to be the biggest infusion of federal dollars into rural health care american history.
▶ 2:49:00Sen. Sanders: Do you know why? Because you are cutting billionr because you are cutting billionl hospitals. That is not an inclusion -- infusion. Next question. President trump, who I don't usually agree with called covid vaccines one of the greatest miracles in the history of medicine that saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. The scientific community agrees with trump.
▶ 2:49:27Sen. Sanders: The lancet study found it prevented almost 20 million deaths during the first year of use. Secretary kennedy, are president trump and the medical community right? Do you still believe the covid vaccine was the deadliest vaccine ever made?
▶ 2:49:43Sec. Kennedy: First of all, I didn't say that. I said that in terms of reports a while ago. I said today I think president trump should get the nobel prize.
▶ 2:49:55Sen. Sanders: Who is right? Trump and the medical community? Or are you right? Is he right or wrong? Did covid save millions of lives?
▶ 2:50:06Sec. Kennedy: As I said, he got americans back to work. At that time that particular vaccine perfectly matched the virus that was circulating then. I've no idea how many lives it saved, but it saved quite a few.
▶ 2:50:22Sen. Sanders: What I find a little bit weird in this discussion, hearing it over and over again, Mr. chairman, we have the entire medical community on one side. The ama representing hundreds of thousands of doctors, the american academy of pediatrics, the american public health association, all of these organizations are telling us that the covid vaccine and vaccines in general are safe and
▶ 2:50:53Sen. Sanders: Effective. You are casting doubt on that. Who are the organizations that are agreeing with you?
▶ 2:51:02Sec. Kennedy: The primary advisors rj bought a char, Dr. oz.
▶ 2:51:15Sen. Sanders: You have a few doctors who agree with you.
▶ 2:51:19Sec. Kennedy: Not a few doctors. There is a big difference, senator, between established science and the scientific establishment, which has been co-opted by the pharmaceutical --
▶ 2:51:30Sen. Sanders: You are telling the american people that the american medical association, representing hundreds of thousands of people has been co-opted and they shouldn't trust their doctors? The american academy of pediatrics -- by the way, for the record, every single republican, not to be political, Mr. chairman, has received pack money from the pharmaceutical industry. Are they all corrupt as well?
▶ 2:51:55Sec. Kennedy: The american heart association has been co-opted --
▶ 2:52:00Sen. Sanders: Everyone but you. We have corrupt campaign finances. Maybe you would believe me on that. You received $300,000 from people, not from the industry, people as I did, individuals. President trump got $3 million. Every republican got corporate pack money from the pharmaceutical industry. Democrats as well. Everybody is corrupt but you? Is that what we are looking at?
▶ 2:52:30Sen. Sanders: I don't think so.
▶ 2:52:31Sec. Kennedy: I don't even know what you're talking about.
▶ 2:52:34Sen. Sanders: The issue is, anybody --
▶ 2:52:39Sec. Kennedy: Are you saying that the pharmaceutical industry was supporting my presidential campaign? I don't think so.
▶ 2:52:46Sen. Sanders: I'm saying the pharmaceutical industry's agreed institution charging us the highest prices in the world. They are pervasive. To suggest that every institution, the ama, the pediatrics people, is corrupt because they disagree with you is an insult.
▶ 2:53:01Sec. Kennedy: People disagree with me all the time. I have arguments in my agency, heated arguments every day, with marty mcgarry, with Dr. oz.
▶ 2:53:14Sen. Sanders: You have given me the names of a few people and I have given you organizations representing thousands of doctors and scientists. >> secretary kennedy, thank you for being here. A couple of times you asked people if they were making a statement or a question. I think just to give you a breather I might make a statement with a lot of questions. Just for the record I would like for you to have the opportunity to have your staff respond.
▶ 2:53:42Sen. Sanders: I could not conclude from the discussion today where you are on warp speed. I would like a definitive statement on exactly where you are a was it good? Was it bad? Were there things that work? Were there things that didn't work? I cannot discern that from what you said here. I think it was a signature accomplishment of president, and the mrna platform --
▶ 2:54:07Sec. Kennedy: I agree with that.
▶ 2:54:09Sen. Tillis: I look forward to a detailed statement on exactly where you are on warp speed. I am not a doctor or trial lawyer. I am a boring management consultant. I will give you directionally where we are going.
▶ 2:54:22Sen. Tillis: I don't see how you go over four weeks from a public health expert with unimpeachable scientific credentials, a longtime champion of maha values, caring and compassionate microbiologist, and four weeks later fire her because public reports say she refused to fire people who work for her.
▶ 2:54:47Sen. Tillis: As someone who advised executives on hiring strategies, number one, I would suggest in the interview you ask if they are truthful rather than four weeks after we took the time in the U.S. senate to confirm the person just for the future nominee that we will have to consider. I believe some of your statements contradict what you said in the prior hearing. You said you would empower the scientists said hhs to do their job. I would like to see the evidence. I'm sure you will have some.
▶ 2:55:19Sen. Tillis: You've done nothing that makes it difficult from people taking vaccines. There seems to be several reports that would refute that. I would rather you respond to it. I will not impose my belief over any of yours.
▶ 2:55:35Sen. Tillis: That appears to be contradictory to the firing of a cdc director, the canceling of mrna research contracts, stalling funding, eliminating funding for half $1 billion for further vaccine -- mrna research. I just want an answer for that.
▶ 2:56:01Sen. Tillis: On hr one, I believe, you know my concerns about hr one. I've had several meetings with in hr one, the one big, beautiful bill, whatever the brand is. I have an office with 68 staff, including cap in state office. I have three different estimates of the economic impact on the state of north carolina.
▶ 2:56:26Sen. Tillis: Can I get your commitment -- and I have been looking for someone who is far more researched then an office of 30 people in D.C. to disprove my estimates with respect to the impact on north carolina. I've yet to have anybody. I would love to be embarrassed and wrong.
▶ 2:56:42Sen. Tillis: I would like to get your commitment for people to tease through the numbers that I provided before the vote on hr one that says if you normalize three independent estimates across a broad spectrum, $25 billion over 10 years, I don't need your response now. I want someone to destroy my estimates because to this point the most resourced health agency in the world has only given me word salad responses, and I need that, so that we can prepare for the response.
▶ 2:57:13Sen. Tillis: $25 million over 10 years is half of the rural relief fund over five years. We need to have that fact as a matter of policy so that we can go to north carolina and absorbed it. Every state is different and I assume everyone of my colleagues here has done the math for their states. Not focused on that. I want you to destroy my estimates if they are wrong and I want you to acknowledge them if they are right. That will come into question as well. Mr.
▶ 2:57:41Sen. Tillis: Kennedy, you have stated multiple times in response to other members' questions that scientists were lying. We will go back to the record and cases where you said that. I would like to see the scientific evidence to substantiate that. I will stipulate that you were honest and you had researched behind it. We will figure out what scientific studies you believe are founded on lies and not scientifically viable.
▶ 2:58:09Sen. Tillis: Finally, I want to give you an opportunity. Apparently, in the exchange with senator bennet you said that you agreed with Dr. leavy's statements who said that the mrna vaccine causes serious harm, including death, particularly in young people. They said you agreed with that comment. Did you agree with that comment or not?
▶ 2:58:29Sec. Kennedy: I think that's true, yes.
▶ 2:58:32Sen. Tillis: Thank you, Mr. chair.
▶ 2:58:34Chair Crapo: Thank you, Mr. tillis. We now have senator smith. You are recognized.
▶ 2:58:43Sen. Smith: Thank you, Mr. chair. Mr. kennedy, I have sat here for the last many minutes and I have listened carefully to your testimony. I think, actually, senator tillis laid out so many of the ways what you have said has contradicted yourself and others. I don't even know where to start. I will start here. Over the last eight months you have claimed to make america healthy again.
▶ 2:59:11Sen. Smith: In actual fact, you have lead the charge in the trump administration to destroy what is best in our health care system. Your denials and evasion and lies here do not change that. You are the secretary of health and human services. Yet, you are trafficking in these fringe ideas and discredited theories that are completely out of step with the scientific consensus and you seem to be willing to say anything in the moment. Even if it is untrue.
▶ 2:59:38Sen. Smith: The last time you were before congress, secretary kennedy, you claimed, "I have never been anti-that, I've never told the public to avoid a vaccination.." in a podcast you said the opposite. That sounds anti-vax to me. When were you lying? When you told the committee that you weren't time tiebacks or when you told americans that there is no safe and effective vaccines?
▶ 3:00:08Sen. Smith: More denial, more back and forth. Here's what I know.
▶ 3:00:10Sec. Kennedy: Can I explain why, senator?
▶ 3:00:13Sen. Smith: Actually, I want you to listen to me.
▶ 3:00:16Sec. Kennedy: Ok, go ahead.
▶ 3:00:20Sen. Smith: I want you to listen to me. You said it was an independent panel after you stocked it with your picks. You wanted evidence-based science but it seems what you want is evidence that supports your view and not the scientific consensus. You dared to sit there and called my colleague from new hampshire a liar when she presented you with the facts that do not support your view of the world.
▶ 3:00:48Sen. Smith: Last week, the days after the tragic shooting at annunciation catholic school in my home state of minnesota, you went on fox news blaming school shootings on antidepressants. You have no evidence of a connection.
▶ 3:01:03Sec. Kennedy: You are just saying that you are just making stuff up.
▶ 3:01:07Sen. Smith: This is what you say. When I present you with information that does not fit --
▶ 3:01:13Sec. Kennedy: I did not blame that shooting. I have no idea. I never said that. You are making it up and twisting -- yes, you are. You are being dishonest right now. You are being dishonest.
▶ 3:01:27Sen. Smith: If you want to talk about mental health and gun violence in this country, we should be talking about that.
▶ 3:01:33Sec. Kennedy: Let's talk about that, senator. You don't want to talk. You want partisan politics. I want to actually solve these problems.
▶ 3:01:43Sen. Smith: Secretary kennedy, what the trump administration is doing right now is making it harder for people in this country to get access to mental health care. Don't talk to me about solving the mental health care crisis when you are making it harder. You cut medicaid, which is the number one payer for mental health services in this country. You decimated the agency at health and human services that focuses on mental health and substance abuse. That is what states count on.
▶ 3:02:14Sen. Smith: They are cutting services to schools as a result of that. Several years ago, in a bipartisan way, congress came together and passed the safer communities act which made important investments in mental health care and did important, although small, things to reduce access to guns. What do you do? You propose cutting that funding. This is what we are talking about in your leadership and the department of health and human services.
▶ 3:02:39Sen. Smith: If you want radical transparency, as you talk about, I mean, take a look at what you're doing. I have heard a lot about maha today while we have been here. There are a lot of americans, secretary kennedy, who trust you. Who believe what you say, especially when you say you are standing up to corruption. I think they need to know. You apparently have a lot of influence with president trump.
▶ 3:03:05Sen. Smith: Did you ask him not to rollback these regulations that are stopping the big corporations from dumping heavy metals and intercurrent disruptors into our soil and water? -- and ind -- and in intercurrent receptors into our soil and water? This hand out to big pharma that makes it easier for the big drug companies to charge more for cancer drugs no, you presided over that. It's stunning what has happening over the last eight months.
▶ 3:03:37Sen. Smith: It is stunning to me. I hope in this moment our colleagues, -- there is hardly anyone left in this room -- are going to think about what it is you have done, what your legacy will be at the health and human services agency, and pay attention to the damage that is being done here.
▶ 3:03:58Chair Crapo: Senator marshall.
▶ 3:04:04Sen. Marshall: Thank you come Mr. chairman. What are your things that's one of your things for the cdc is transparency. When I hear transparency I think sharing what you know, with the cdc knows with parent so that they can make decisions. This is the current cdc represented 8 -- recommendations for vaccines for children. They won they get their first jab for hepatitis. By 18 months they had 18 jabs.
▶ 3:04:32Sen. Marshall: By the time that they get to be old enough to vote they have 76 jabs. When we talk, when I listen, I hear you say that vaccines or drugs. We need a major response. When do we use this? It's interesting that the united states put age 65 and older for a covid vaccine. U.k. Has chosen 75. France, 80.
▶ 3:05:00Sen. Marshall: Obviously, scientists disagree exactly when that should and shouldn't be. The hepatitis b vaccine, it makes no sense to me. I've only delivered 5000 babies, but we do a hepatitis test on every mom. By the time that she delivers that baby, I know her pretty well. If she doesn't have any risk factors, if she's not an iv drug abuser, she's in a monogamous relationship, no one at home has hepatitis, I don't see the benefit of a hepatitis vaccine.
▶ 3:05:29Sen. Marshall: Everyone is eligible to get it and appeared -- and pediatricians don't always agree with me. If you don't know the hepatitis status they should get it. I'm not saying if this person has no prenatal care pier that puts them at risk for hepatitis. When you talk about transparency and trying to empower to make vaccines available, these should be treated just like a medication?
▶ 3:05:50Sec. Kennedy: I mean, I say I am not anti-vaccine. Saying that I'm anti-vaccine is saying that I am anti-medicine. I am pro-medicine, but I understand that some medicines harm people. Some of them have risks. Some of them have benefits that outweigh the risks for certain populations. The same is true with vaccines.
▶ 3:06:13Sec. Kennedy: We don't understand the risk profile, because vaccines are the only medical intervention, device, pharmaceutical drug that are exempt from prelicensing safety studies. There are two hepatitis vaccines. One of them had a safety study that lasted for four days on 143 kids for a product that will be given to 76 million kids.
▶ 3:06:43Sec. Kennedy: The risk profile prior to the introduction of the vaccine, the risk of a baby dying from hepatitis b was one in 7 million. If you need to give 7 million hepatitis b vaccine's to prevent one death. If you're going to give 7 million --
▶ 3:06:59Sen. Smith: I guess before the press labeled me wrong, I am not anti-vaccine either. Dpt and polio have been great vaccines. Smallpox. There is the measured approach that we are after. Transparency to empower parents. I think the differences, sometimes our friends across the aisle fuels like there is a one-size-fits-all that they -- it feels like there is a one-size-fits-all that they feel everyone should do.
▶ 3:07:30Sen. Smith: I want to talk about the mortality of covid for a second. It's true that two things can be true, but I don't understand why the rabbit hole some of my colleagues are going down. There's a big difference. When I was practicing, doing volunteer work, I was confused on the numbers. People dying with covid versus from covid. We still don't have that message. I think that is what I hear you saying as well. How many people died from covid versus with covid is a different answer.
▶ 3:07:59Sen. Smith: The situation today is different when this monster virus was made in the laboratory in china, none of us had thing this virus, we had no immunity. Today, every american has had covid a dozen times and we built up an immunity. It was a miracle. Warp speed was a miracle. President trump and his team, it saved millions of lives most likely, but it's also true that it probably killed some people, like most mexicans. Both things are true.
▶ 3:08:28Sen. Smith: Anything else you want -- like most vaccines. Both things are true. Anything else you want to clear up on comorbidity with vaccines?
▶ 3:08:36Sec. Kennedy: The covid vaccine was critical. President trump's leadership got it to us when our society was locked down and allowed us to open up, perfectly matched to a virus that was new in the experience of humanity. So, it was a miracle.
▶ 3:08:55Sec. Kennedy: Right now we are dealing with completely different circumstances, where the virus has mutated, it is much less dangerous, there is a lot of natural immunity and herd immunity. The calculus is different. It is complicated. If you want to turn everything into a soundbite, you can't have a grown up conversation.
▶ 3:09:20Sec. Kennedy: There were more reports, the only surveillance system we have of injuries and deaths from that vaccine than all vaccines put together in history. We have to acknowledge that there was a cause. We acknowledge that there was a benefit. We can't quantify either one because of the data chaos at the cdc and that's all I'm saying.
▶ 3:09:49Sec. Kennedy: They think that I'm being evasive because I won't make a statement that is almost religious in nature. Did it save a million lives? There is no data to support that. There is no study. There are modeling studies. There is faulty data. I won't sign on to something if I can't make it to a scientific certainty. It doesn't mean that I'm anti-fact. It means that I am pro-science.
▶ 3:10:19Chair Crapo: Senator lujan. Simple lujan secretary kennedy, -- Sen. lujan: secretary kennedy, -- his resignation letter stated that he and his team were never allowed to reach you. I wondering who you are listening to since you are not listening to qualified experts. Can you give the committee the name of the person?
▶ 3:10:50Chair Crapo: Mr. secretary, the question that I have for you is, can you give the committee the name of who you are getting briefed by?
▶ 3:10:56Sec. Kennedy: All the time by cdc. Dr. william thompson is one name.
▶ 3:11:02Sen. Lujan: Thank you very much, sir.
▶ 3:11:05Sec. Kennedy: I have a list of others on my schedule.
▶ 3:11:09Sen. Lujan: That is not a hard question.
▶ 3:11:12Sec. Kennedy: I am not being evasive.
▶ 3:11:14Sen. Lujan: You answered it. Let's move on. You said you will soon release a study to reveal the cause of autism timed with the aapic meeting to justify taking vaccines from americans. Autism affects millions of children so I guess you would have the top medical experts working on this. You hired a man named david geyer? Is that correct?
▶ 3:11:39Sec. Kennedy: No.
▶ 3:11:41Sen. Lujan: Is Mr. david geyer working for hhs?
▶ 3:11:46Sec. Kennedy: He is a contractor but not conducting the study.
▶ 3:11:50Sen. Lujan: Do you know who works for you, Mr. kennedy? Mr. geyer is listed as hhs on the employment directory as a senior data analyst. Is your website wrong? Do you want me to pull up the website for you?
▶ 3:12:10Sec. Kennedy: He is a contractor.
▶ 3:12:13Sen. Lujan: If the website says that he is a senior data analyst, will you at least admit that you are wrong?
▶ 3:12:20Sec. Kennedy: I don't know if a contractor can be classified as a senior data analyst or not.
▶ 3:12:26Sen. Lujan: Is Mr. geyer a doctor?
▶ 3:12:29Sec. Kennedy: No.
▶ 3:12:32Sen. Lujan: Did you know he never went to medical school?
▶ 3:12:35Sec. Kennedy: He is not practicing medicine.
▶ 3:12:39Sen. Lujan: Did you know he was caught in maryland practicing medicine without a license?
▶ 3:12:45Sec. Kennedy: The medical board was found to be acting in actual malice and was fined by a judge in maryland for doing that.
▶ 3:12:52Sen. Lujan: You choose to know a lot when you want to know a lot
▶ 3:13:00Sec. Kennedy: . It's incredible. Senator, you are ridiculous.
▶ 3:13:01Sen. Lujan: You brought him in to do this study.
▶ 3:13:04Sec. Kennedy: I told you, he's not doing the study.
▶ 3:13:08Sen. Lujan: Is he participating in the study? Is he doing any analysis in regards to the study?
▶ 3:13:15Sec. Kennedy: He is getting access to the data link, the biggest repository for vaccine information that your friend would not give us for seven months. Seven months --
▶ 3:13:26Sen. Lujan: Let me ask you this question. What is Mr. geyer doing?
▶ 3:13:31Sec. Kennedy: He is the only one. Congress ordered the cdc to open up to him in 2002. He is the only outsider who has ever seen it.
▶ 3:13:47Sen. Lujan: Is he participating in this? You said that he is the only dude who knows what's going on here.
▶ 3:13:54Sec. Kennedy: Do you want me to explain it to you?
▶ 3:14:04Sec. Kennedy: Do you want a real answer to your question?
▶ 3:14:08Sen. Lujan: You choose to know answers to some questions. Maybe president trump should have asked, are you a trustworthy person? We should have waited for an answer.
▶ 3:14:24Sec. Kennedy: You are talking gibberish.
▶ 3:14:27Sen. Lujan: Let me speak slowly and clearly so that you can understand me through my new mexico accent. Can you understand me?
▶ 3:14:36Sec. Kennedy: Yes.
▶ 3:14:37Sen. Lujan: Yes or no, did you hire Mr. geier to do this study?
▶ 3:14:45Sec. Kennedy: No.
▶ 3:14:47Sen. Lujan: Maybe we will get a good answer here. Mr. secretary, will you commit to sharing the protocols used for the autism study? Will you commit to giving him to this committee by the end of the week?
▶ 3:15:07Sec. Kennedy: That is not the way it works. You don't even know what you are talking about.
▶ 3:15:13Sen. Lujan: Will you commit to sharing the protocols for the study by the end of the month? You said that it's public.
▶ 3:15:19Sec. Kennedy: We put out the notice of funding opportunities, and it then the scientists from all over the world -- you are not understanding how the world works.
▶ 3:15:29Sen. Lujan: Do you understand with the protocols are?
▶ 3:15:33Sec. Kennedy: The scientists doing this submit the protocols. They aren't coming from us.
▶ 3:15:39Sen. Lujan: Will you commit to sharing those protocols with this committee?
▶ 3:15:43Sec. Kennedy: Anyone can get a hold of the protocol. It is published with the study.
▶ 3:15:49Sen. Lujan: I would like your commitment -- I will send a letter to the secretary and ask for support from the leadership of this committee to ask for those protocols. If those protocols are not given --
▶ 3:16:01Sec. Kennedy: Anybody can get the protocols.
▶ 3:16:03Sen. Lujan: I'm not talking to you.
▶ 3:16:06Chair Crapo: If the protocols are public --
▶ 3:16:10Sen. Lujan: If the protocols are not given to this committee I'm asking for your agreement that we follow through with a subpoena to get them?
▶ 3:16:18Chair Crapo: I will not agree to subpoena anything?
▶ 3:16:21Sen. Lujan: You will help me get them if they are available publicly?
▶ 3:16:25Chair Crapo: Yes.
▶ 3:16:27Sen. Lujan: With all of the questions here today, people just want to know the truth.
▶ 3:16:32Sec. Kennedy: I don't think so.
▶ 3:16:34Sen. Lujan: I hope everyone recording that got that. There explains the secretary's tenure. Two young ladies in las cruces, new mexico at a town hall gave me this starfish pen. I was going to give it to you today, but after your questioning I don't think you deserve it. What this represents is to remember that everyone of us can make a difference to something as small as a starfish on a beach that got washed up and you throw it back into the ocean.
▶ 3:17:04Sen. Lujan: You may not save them all but you can say one. I'm sorry that you aren't worthy of this nice pin, this nice reminder. I will pray for you. I hope we do better, I want you to do better, but today was a failure for you, man. I yield back. >> less than a month ago we received the heartbreaking news that a gunman opened fire at the cdc campus in atlanta georgia.
▶ 3:17:35Sen. Lujan: This is obviously my neck of the woods, it is heart wrenching for all americans, but for those of us especially who live in that area. A county police officer, david rose, was killed. The shots hit buildings on campus at at least 100 80 places narrowly missing the cdc's daycare center. Law enforcement recovered nearly 500 shell casings.
▶ 3:18:05Sen. Lujan: Clearly, he came to do a lot of damage. Thanks to the quick action, more people were killed. The georgia euro of investigation announced that prior to the attack the gunman expressed discontent with the covid vaccine and "wanted to make the public aware of his distrust of the vaccines." secretary kennedy, I assume that you are aware of these
▶ 3:18:38Sen. Lujan: Disturbing reports of the gunman's motives?
▶ 3:18:40Sec. Kennedy: Yes.
▶ 3:18:43Sen. Warnock: I understand some people may have concerns about new medical breakthroughs, but those people don't have the world's top medical experts working under them. You have been over hhs for seven months now. Have you ever been briefed by the cdc's career immunization officials to discuss your concerns?
▶ 3:19:07Sec. Kennedy: By the way, every member of this panel has criticized president trump -- are you complicit in the assassination attempt of president trump?
▶ 3:19:21Sen. Warnock: I am asking the questions, you are the witness. Yes or no, have you been briefed by the cdc career immunization officials to discuss your concerns?
▶ 3:19:32Sec. Kennedy: Yes.
▶ 3:19:33Sen. Warnock: You have been briefed by cdc officials, career immunization officials?
▶ 3:19:40Sec. Kennedy: Senior vaccine safety scientists, for example.
▶ 3:19:44Sen. Warnock: Before the shooting on august 8? Have you been there as a secretary before the shooting?
▶ 3:19:52Sec. Kennedy: No.
▶ 3:19:54Sen. Warnock: Let's return to the shooting in the aftermath. I will ask a series of yes/no questions about the events over the last month, and I would appreciate a yes or no response. You called Dr. monarez to your office on august 25 for a meeting?
▶ 3:20:13Sec. Kennedy: It could be. I don't know the date. I will have to check my calendar.
▶ 3:20:18Sen. Warnock: Was jim o'neill demand that you appointed as the acting director as the cdc in the room on whatever date you met with them since you can't recall? Was he in that meeting? Did you criticize Dr. monarez for her statements to the cdc following the shooting where she said, "misinformation can be dangerous."
▶ 3:20:40Sec. Kennedy: I don't believe so. I have no recollection.
▶ 3:20:44Sen. Warnock: You don't believe you criticized her?
▶ 3:20:48Sec. Kennedy: I criticized her.
▶ 3:20:52Sen. Warnock: Did you criticize her for her statements to cdc workers following the shooting? Did you demanded that she fire career scientists or public experts at the cdc?
▶ 3:21:04Sec. Kennedy: Yes.
▶ 3:21:06Sen. Warnock: Did you demand she accept the recommendations of your hand-picked vaccine advisory panel without further review by career cdc scientists?
▶ 3:21:17Sec. Kennedy: No, I did not.
▶ 3:21:20Sen. Warnock: You didn't ask for her commitment ahead of time that she would accept the recommendations from the advisory panel?
▶ 3:21:27Sec. Kennedy: But I asked her about is, she had made a statement that she was going to not sign on. I wanted clarification about that.
▶ 3:21:38Sen. Warnock: Did you tell her to accept the advisory panel's recommendations?
▶ 3:21:44Sec. Kennedy: I told her I didn't want her to have a role she is not going to sign on.
▶ 3:21:51Sen. Warnock: Did you say the cdc is the most corrupt federal agency in the history of the world?
▶ 3:21:57Sec. Kennedy: Not in the history of the world but in hhs. I said it's the most corrupt agency at hhs and may be the government.
▶ 3:22:06Sen. Warnock: Did you say cdc staff are "horrible people." did you say that they are killing children and they don't care?
▶ 3:22:16Sec. Kennedy: No.
▶ 3:22:17Sen. Warnock: I think that we all have a history of listening to you and these answers, but you are on the record for a number of these statements. Despite your lack of credentials and expertise, clearly you have an agenda. It is a threat to the public health of the american people. It's clear that you are carrying out your extremist beliefs, which is why you attempted to fire Dr. monarez.
▶ 3:22:46Sec. Kennedy: The sickest people on earth --
▶ 3:22:49Sen. Warnock: I am speaking.
▶ 3:22:51Sec. Kennedy: How am I a threat?
▶ 3:22:54Sen. Warnock: For the first time we are seeing deaths for children from measles. Under your watch. You are a hazard to the health of the american people.
▶ 3:23:04Sec. Kennedy: Can I respond?
▶ 3:23:06Sen. Warnock: No. Let me have my time. You are a hazard to the health of the american people. I think you ought to resign. If you don't resign, the president of the united states, who put forward operation warp speed, which worked, should fire you. Thank you, so much.
▶ 3:23:24Chair Crapo: Senator welch.
▶ 3:23:28Sen. Welch: Mr. chairman, thank you. I want to sum up and I want to make three points. First, we have a health care affordability crisis in this country. Second, secretary kennedy's policies are making that affordability crisis worse, not better. Third, Mr.
▶ 3:23:56Sen. Welch: Chairman, the united states senate is not doing its job. Health care. Citizens of the united states, our employers, our taxpayers, our families pay the most and get the least. That has been persistent and chronic. It is not being addressed, it is being aggravated. Let me be specific.
▶ 3:24:20Sen. Welch: In vermont, family of four that makes 82 thousand dollars in income with premium support on obamacare now pays $6,970 for their health care premium. That will increase $23,000 to $30,000. That is unaffordable, shocking, and cruel.
▶ 3:24:46Sen. Welch: The big, beautiful bill, vermonters will lose 45,000 families will lose health care. That is going to be a hammer blow to our hospitals, because those folks who lose health care don't get a guarantee they won't get sick. They will show up at our community hospital's community hospitals will treat them and they won't be compensated. That is why it vermont community hospitals are on financial thin ice.
▶ 3:25:15Sen. Welch: That is true for about 38,000 hospitals around our country in danger of closing. Second. Mr. chairman, I believe the secretary made assurances to this committee and he has not kept the promises he made. Prices have not come down. They have gone up. He assured senator cassidy that he would not change the standards for vaccine review.
▶ 3:25:41Sen. Welch: Yet, since his confirmation all 17 members of the vaccine advisory board have been fired by him. Hii hie -- he has limited the use of the covid-19 vaccine, and he has inexplicably canceled 500 million dollars in vaccine research and funding. I'm not surprised. Stephen miller credited you with being the crown jewel of the cabinet.
▶ 3:26:14Sen. Welch: In my observation about the crown jewel of the cabinet and the policies of the folks who get rewarded they are the ones who fire those in service who speak truth to power. Susan monarez, fired because she refused to fire her staff without cause and rubberstamp changes to the vaccine schedule without data. The head of the bureau of labor statistics was fired because she gave a report with honest numbers about the job report.
▶ 3:26:45Sen. Welch: Cia russia expert who had been there for 30 years, fired after the meeting with putin. So, Mr. president, that is serious and worrisome. I want to finally end by challenging us in the united states senate to do our job. We have a constitutional responsibility to be a check and balance.
▶ 3:27:13Sen. Welch: The fear of our founders would be a concentration of power in one branch, and that would lead to catastrophic consequences for our country. What has congress done? On oversight, advice, and consent? We have confirmed a vaccine denier. On tariffs we have given up our constitutional responsibility. On appropriations, we are bending the knee to an administration that has decided what to spend and what not to spend despite the way our law in a bipartisan way was passed.
▶ 3:27:45Sen. Welch: We cannot cede power. There are consequences. A crumbling health care center and our allies losing faith in us. Mr. secretary, in the past you have accused some of my colleagues of being in the pocket of pharma. Pharma shills. He did it to senator warren today, and he's done in the past with senator sanders.
▶ 3:28:13Sen. Welch: You are not a pharma shill, but I believe we have to fight pharma and bring down the prices. Senator cortez masto spoke about the legislation we would have that would reverse the $500 billion hand out to big pharma in the one big, beautiful bill. When I leave today with senator wyden, we will go to the floor and seek unanimous consent to pass our legislation that would reverse that giveaway.
▶ 3:28:41Sen. Welch: I ask you to put your policy and your body where your mouth is and join us in supporting that bill to restore price negotiation power so that those pharma prices can come down from being the highest in the world to something within range of reason. Mr. chairman, I yield back.
▶ 3:29:04Chair Crapo: Thank you, very much. Senator young.
▶ 3:29:08Sen. Young: Welcome to the committee, Mr. secretary. It is my intention not to raise my voice and give you an opportunity to respond to an inquiry. I will begin with long covid.
▶ 3:29:25Sen. Young: In each of our meetings we have discussed my interest in making sure our government does its part to address this challenge which afflicts by most recent estimates over 20 million americans who have been diagnosed. A number of others go undiagnosed.
▶ 3:29:46Sen. Young: Over 400 million people worldwide suffer from this at a cost of $1 trillion a year, which is roughly 1% of global gdp. We know this has had impacts on participation in the workforce. Therefore, our own gdp. It is serious on a number of fronts. It is my hope that we can come up with some therapeutics for this condition.
▶ 3:30:13Sen. Young: One of the real barriers to that is seeing we are able to launch more clinical trials. And I want to get your update on how the clinical trials are going. What plans you might have in the works to increase the number of clinical trials as it pertains to long covid.
▶ 3:30:34Sec. Kennedy: Senator, there was a project funded long covid project at nih, huge amount of money spent on it. It yielded nothing.
▶ 3:30:46Sen. Young: I agree with that.
▶ 3:30:48Sec. Kennedy: I think you know we are now doing a different approach, launching a long covid contortion, bringing together the best doctors in the country who developed reputations for being able to treat long covid. One of them is a doctor --
▶ 3:31:07Sen. Young: Dr. bruce patterson.
▶ 3:31:10Sec. Kennedy: A number of them are doing spectacular things for patients. Reporting extraordinary progress. We want to get them all in one room. We want to identify the protocols that are working. This is something that didn't happen during covid. It was all ivy tower -- ivory tower science and the doctors on the ground were ignored. The same thing happened during the hiv crisis.
▶ 3:31:38Sec. Kennedy: We are trying to do something different.
▶ 3:31:40Sen. Young: You mentioned ivory tower. It is a segue into a statistic that I have become familiar with over the years. It takes roughly 18 years for proven interventions, pharmacological or other types of medical interventions, to make their way into the field.
▶ 3:32:01Sen. Young: If we assume a conservative estimate of 12 to 15 years until we have any really acceptable therapeutics for long covid, that is a cheerful estimate. Plus 18 years until it finds its way into clinical practice, people roughly my age will pass actuarially speaking. They will pass before there is any acceptable therapeutics. We need to accelerate our current activities.
▶ 3:32:31Sen. Young: Can you give me a couple things you will do to ensure that we accelerate our development of therapeutics?
▶ 3:32:36Sec. Kennedy: I mean, the best solutions are the same kinds of solutions we should have been pursuing during covid, which is off-the-shelf approved drugs that are there already.
▶ 3:32:51Sen. Young: Yes. It was recently reported that all of the major pharma companies -- I am sorry if there is one good student exception -- are serving as barriers to clinical trials.
▶ 3:33:04Sec. Kennedy: It is bizarre that that is happening.
▶ 3:33:07Sen. Young: You are the secretary of hhs. Will you be cracking down?
▶ 3:33:12Sec. Kennedy: Yes.
▶ 3:33:14Sen. Young: Thank you so much. Will you be exploring research partnerships with other countries? I have established a this is a global challenge.
▶ 3:33:23Sec. Kennedy: Yes. That is what we should have done during hiv and during covid.
▶ 3:33:29Sen. Young: Will you be if arpa h -- nih is good at what they do but it takes them a long time to prove things because of their rigorous process. Arpa is more practical, right? One could imagine arpah tackling this challenge.
▶ 3:33:57Sec. Kennedy: I'm open to that, senator.
▶ 3:34:00Sen. Young: Will you be working with band members of the committee on your aggressive strategy as it continues?
▶ 3:34:08Sec. Kennedy: Ideas everywhere.
▶ 3:34:11Sen. Young: What I would like to briefly touch on with the chairman's indulgence is recognizing the president's as it relates to the appropriate use of civil commitment to deal with homelessness challenges, mental health challenges, etc. He is taking a look at these practices. This can be a difficult conversation for so many of us.
▶ 3:34:33Sen. Young: I think it is worth considering if the government can play a more assertive role in helping people off the streets who have serious mental illness, get off the streets, receive the treatment they really need to be healthy. Can you provide very brief thoughts on this topic? Maybe then I can follow up with a phone call. Civil commitment.
▶ 3:34:59Sec. Kennedy: Um --
▶ 3:35:05Sen. Young: We can follow up.
▶ 3:35:06Sec. Kennedy: I want to hear your ideas on it.
▶ 3:35:09Sen. Young: I think we ought to take a look at it. If there is someone in 20 degrees below zero temperatures consistently in washington, D.C., and they are believed to perhaps have mental health challenges, might we consider how to offer them care?
▶ 3:35:28Sen. Young: In a controlled setting rather than allowing them to freeze to death. Be humane as we consider the application of our laws.
▶ 3:35:39Chair Crapo: Mr. secretary, you have been here a minute or so under three hours. We appreciate that. We are not quite done yet. Senator wyden has asked for one more round. I said he as the ranking member should have one more round of five minutes for himself. Senator wyden, why don't you go ahead?
▶ 3:35:59Sen. Wyden: We will keep this brief. I want to ask about mifepristone. I was the first member of congress to hold a hearing on this drug, which now has served more than 7.5 million women. Of course, it is used for reproductive health and medication abortion. It has been documented again and again as safe. People say, safer than tylenol.
▶ 3:36:32Sen. Wyden: The reason I'm asking the question is that I'm getting reports that you said you will conduct a complete review of mifepristone's safety. What we are hearing is, it's not based on new clinical trials, or data from the scientific community, but on one reviewed paper that is not a peer -reviewed paper by a political
▶ 3:37:03Sen. Wyden: Organization, project 2025 sponsor whose objective is an antiabortion agenda. What I would like to hear today is for you to say that you will commit that your best scientists, without bias, will be permitted to conduct this entirely unnecessary safety review. I don't see any evidence for it. You have called for it. But I would like to do is make sure it is done right. And very troubled by what I've heard about it.
▶ 3:37:30Sec. Kennedy: I give my commitment. It will be good science and good scientists.
▶ 3:37:37Sen. Young: -- Sen. wyden: we will get back to you to talk about how specifically that will play out, but I appreciate it. One last point for you. Mr. chairman, I will ask unanimous consent to enter into the record declaration by these kids, some of them very young, who in the middle of the night we were told by whistleblowers are being whisked away and the like.
▶ 3:38:06Sen. Young: What I would like to enter into the record or statements by these kids that we have learned about. And also a memo prepared by the guatemalan government outlining the deportation effort into the record. We have been able to obtain that, and I think it's an important part of the debate. With that, I beat my time of five minutes.
▶ 3:38:29Chair Crapo: Without objection. Thank you, senator wyden. We are at the point where I will make a couple of very brief personal remarks. I have decided, Mr. secretary -- I said at the outset of this hearing that it is a partisan battle obvious to anyone who has paid attention to anyone who has paid attention in the last three hours.
▶ 3:38:55Chair Crapo: There were several times that you were cut off or I had to cut you off because we needed to keep moving along. I'm not suggesting that you need to or should, but if there's anything you felt you didn't have a chance to say, if you could briefly say it now, or if you would like you will have the opportunity to submit written responses to questions which I will reference in a minute. You can make any further statements that you would like to make at that point.
▶ 3:39:19Sec. Kennedy: I think I will have mercy on everyone here and let adjourn.
▶ 3:39:24Chair Crapo: A wise choice. Let me just say now, senators will be allowed to submit questions to you for the record by next thursday, september 11, by 5:00 p.m. I just want to say, Mr. secretary, during former secretary becerra's tenure, responses were not delivered in a timely manner.
▶ 3:39:50Chair Crapo: The example that I will give you is, on march 22, 2023 he got questions. He answered in february 22, 2024. 11 months later. A year seems excessive. I will ask you and your team to not follow the example set by secretary becerra and respond as probably as you can to the questions you receive. I ask that of every single nominee.
▶ 3:40:20Chair Crapo: You may or may not recall, you probably already told me you will do that in your nomination hearing, but with that, once again, to my colleagues, the deadline for submitting these questions for the record is september 11, 5:00 p.m. Hearing nothing further, this hearing is adjourned. [gavel falls]