▶ 0:18:52Chair Cassidy: The senate committee on health, education, labor, and pensions will please come to order. I think our witnesses for being here. This hearing is a direct response to president trump's call for radical transparency and how we conduct governmental affairs. And I think secretary robert kennedy for echoing that call for radical transparency in his testimony before the senate finance committee. Now I approach this hearing as both a doctor and as a senator.
▶ 0:19:23Chair Cassidy: And as both, I should be -- but frankly I think we all should be -- first and foremost, friends and allies of the american people. They are looking to us to figure out how our government works best for them. And if you look at any other agenda, we are not doing our duty to the american people. That was the attitude I brought advocating for my patients.
▶ 0:19:53Chair Cassidy: I think that is the attitude we should bring as senators toward this issue as well. And if I loyalty lies elsewhere, then we fail as senators. As a doctor who treated children and families for over 25 years, I have the absolute obligation to do the best I can for the health of those I'm entrusted to serve.
▶ 0:20:15Chair Cassidy: In this case, I am, though we all are, entrusted to serve the moms and dads, children, parents so that when I or any doctor makes a recommendation to provide a life-saving vaccine or treatment, they can reliably rely upon cdc guidance. If doctors do not have clear guidance or have a reason to distrust what is coming out of the cdc, they cannot make an informed decision to protect their patients.
▶ 0:20:45Chair Cassidy: Children, and I would say adults, help this. As a senator, and this speaks directly to all of us of the table, I'm focused on the fact that Dr. monarez was the first cdc director requiring senate confirmation. We republicans supported making the cdc director senate confirmed. It is such an important decision -- position that we demanded a role in her or his choosing.
▶ 0:21:13Chair Cassidy: And so part of our responsibility today is to ask ourselves, if someone is fired 29 days after every republican votes for her, the senate confirms her, the secretary said in her swearing in that she has "unimpeachable scientific credentials" and the president calls are an incredible mother and dedicated public servant, what happened? Did we fail? Was there something we should have done differently?
▶ 0:21:47Chair Cassidy: The secretary and his senate finance testimony justified Dr. monarez's firing by quoting it is imperative that we remove officials with conflicts of interest and catastrophically bad judgment and political agendas. We need unbiased, politics-free, transparent evidence-based science in the public interest.
▶ 0:22:11Chair Cassidy: If what he said is true, we as senators need to ask ourselves, did we look past something, did we do something wrong? It may be that we did nothing wrong, in which case, Dr. monarez and Dr. houry, it is upon you to prove that the criticism leveled by the secretary are not true. We all have an obligation to truth.
▶ 0:22:41Chair Cassidy: It may be impossible to learn who is telling the truth but this hearing is an initial step to learn what the top leadership of the cdc was fired or resigned before they could be fired, turmoil at the top of the nation's top public health agency is not good for the health of the american people.
▶ 0:22:59Chair Cassidy: I have long believed the cdc need to reform to gain the trust of the american people and earlier this year launched a workgroup with senate republicans on the topic including senators paul, murkowski, scott which has met numerous times on staff level. Fortunately, we have a president who has called for radical transparency in government. President trump clearly wants to make america healthy again. I thank them for that. The american people need all the facts, not a version of the facts that fix a certain narrative or agenda.
▶ 0:23:30Chair Cassidy: It is up with this mandate from president trump that the help committee is conducting this oversight. Today we will hear from Dr. monarez and Dr. which have raised serious allegations which strikes at the core of the cdc's credibility, the need to be scrutinized and evaluated through impartial eyes. I'm also inviting age-adjusted officials including secretary kennedy to speak with the committee and refute anything said today.
▶ 0:23:56Chair Cassidy: This is how we achieve president's goal of radical transparency, giving americans the full picture so they can judge for themselves. This is not about politics, this is about protecting children's health and rebuilding trust in institutions. I want president trump to have the best cdc in our nations history. I want to work with the president to fulfill his campaign promise to reform the cdc and make america healthy again. The president says radical transparency is the way to do that.
▶ 0:24:25Chair Cassidy: This hearing is one step closer to delivering president trump's mission. With that, I recognize senator sanders.
▶ 0:24:31Sen. Sanders: Thank you for holding this important hearing. Dr. monarez, Dr. houry , thank you for being with us. On july 30 one, Dr. monarez was sworn in as our nation's first senate confirmed director at the cdc. At a swearing in ceremony, secretary kennedy said, "Dr. monarez is a public health expert with unimpeachable scientific credentials.
▶ 0:25:00Sen. Sanders: I have full confidence in her ability to restore the cdc's role as the most trusted authority in public health and to strengthen our nation's readiness to confront infectious diseases and bio security threats." that is much secretary kennedy said on july 31. On august 27, less than a month later, Dr. monarez was fired. Why was that?
▶ 0:25:28Sen. Sanders: Well, according to secretary kennedy, Dr. monarez, who spent nearly two decades as a public service working in both democratic and republican administrations, he said that she is "a lawye -- liar" and is "untrustworthy." liar and untrustworthy? Really? How did Dr.
▶ 0:25:56Sen. Sanders: Monarez go from being a public expert with unimpeachable scientific credentials who had the full confidence of secretary kennedy into being a liar and untrustworthy in less than a month? That is quite the transformation. I think the answer is fairly obvious. Dr.
▶ 0:26:16Sen. Sanders: Monarez was fired because she refused to act as a rubberstamp to implement secretary kennedy's dangerous agenda to substantially limit the use of safe and effective vaccines that would endanger the lives of the american people and people throughout the world. Specifically, she was fired for two reasons. Number 1 -- listen to this.
▶ 0:26:41Sen. Sanders: She refused to quote unquote pre-approve the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel newly filled with people who had publicly expressed anti-vaccine rhetoric. In other words, and this is quite important, she took the radical position that she wanted to examine the scientific facts before drawing conclusions.
▶ 0:27:11Sen. Sanders: I would hope that that is the very least we could expect from any public health official in the united states. Number two, reason why she was fired, she refused to get rid of career scientists were doing their jobs including Dr. houry who was then the chief medical officer at the cdc. Bottom line, Dr. monarez stood up the science for public health and for the scientific method.
▶ 0:27:41Sen. Sanders: Frankly, she stood up for protecting the well-being of the american people, and for that reason, she was fired. Mr., let us be clear, this hearing is not just about determining why Dr. monarez was fired and why Dr. houry and other scientists at the cdc resigned. The issue is deeper than that. It is about secretary kennedy's dangerous war on science, public health, and the truth itself.
▶ 0:28:14Sen. Sanders: Unacceptably, we now have an hhs secretary who does not believe in established science and who listens to conspiracy theorists and ideologues rather than doctors and medical professions. It is absurd to have to say this in the year 2025. But vaccines are safe and effective. That, of course, is not just my view.
▶ 0:28:45Sen. Sanders: More importantly, it is the overwhelming consensus of the medical and scientific community. It is not what we believe, it is what the scientific and medical communities believe. The american academy of pediatrics, the country's largest professional association of pediatricians, representing over 67,000 doctors. Those are the doctors that we take our kids to. What do they say?
▶ 0:29:12Sen. Sanders: One of the greatest public health achievements is the vaccine which prevents tens of thousands of deaths and millions of cases of disease. That is our pediatricians. The mentor the men american medical profession represented 72,000 doctors, they say vaccines are the best to protect the public health against illnesses and their potentially serious complications.
▶ 0:29:41Sen. Sanders: World health organization, virtually every medical organization, every scientific organization, the people who we trust tell us vaccines are safe and effective. Mr. chairman, you will recall, as other members of the panel, several years ago when I sat where you sat, we had the heads of the major agencies talking about pandemic preparedness. How well would we be prepared for a future pandemic? I believe we had five agency heads.
▶ 0:30:10Sen. Sanders: We all asked them, you tell me, will there be another pandemic in the future? They all said, no one knows what it will be, no one knows when it will come, but the likelihood is there will be another pandemic. And the next question that some of us ask is, tell us, are we prepared for that got forbidden terrible event? Without exception, Mr. chairman, they also no.
▶ 0:30:39Sen. Sanders: So it is not just what is going on endangering the health and well-being of our children. Are we prepared for the next pandemic which could claim millions of lives? Are we doing the scientific research to do the vaccines, the tools that we need? Dr. monarez, Dr. houry, thank you for being with us. We look forward to hearing your testimony.
▶ 0:31:01Chair Cassidy: I wish to introduce statements into the record. The first of september 2 op-ed by secretary kennedy outlining his vision to modernize the cdc. The second is an article comparing secretary kennedy's op-ed to a memo Dr. monarez drafted describing her priorities to modernize the agency. The article found their recommendations outlined in the op-ed and memo were substantially similar.
▶ 0:31:34Chair Cassidy: I need to introduce the witness. We are joined by Dr. susan monarez, former director of the centers for disease control and prevention, cdc. Dr. monarez was the first senate confirmed cdc director. She was paves the the deputy director of products agency for health where she helped oversee a 2 billion-dollar portfolio to advance health care breakthroughs. Dr.
▶ 0:31:57Chair Cassidy: Monarez earned her phd in microbiology and immunology from the university of wisconsin madison and complete a proposed doctorate fellowship at stanford university school of medicine. Dr. houry, we are also joined by, the former chief medical officer and deputy director for program and science at the centers for disease control. Dr. houry oversaw cdc's nine national centers and the agency's office of science with a combined budget of over $6 billion.
▶ 0:32:25Chair Cassidy: She also previously led cdc's national center for prevention and control where she helped lead work responding to the opioid crisis. Dr. houry is a graduate of emory university and received her md and mph degrees from tulane university. She completed her residency training in emergency medicine at denver health medical center. I shall now begin.
▶ 0:32:55Chair Cassidy: Oh, the opening statements. Please pay me Dr. monarez. -- please, Dr. monarez. Is your microphone on?
▶ 0:33:17Dr. Monarez: Can you hear me? Chairman cassidy, ranking member sanders, and distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you again. My name is susan monarez, and I'm a microbiologist and immuno biologist.
▶ 0:33:47Dr. Monarez: Exactly 12 weeks ago in this same room, I testified that if confirmed I would lead the cdc to restore public trust, modernize public health infrastructure, and strengthen the agency's fore mission of protecting americans from infectious diseases and emerging threats. I was honored to be nominated by president trump and confirmed with the senate support.
▶ 0:34:19Dr. Monarez: Secretary kennedy himself swore me in on july 31, calling me a public health expert with unimpeachable scientific credentials. My tenure as cdc director lasted 29 days. Since my removal, several explanations have been offered.
▶ 0:34:40Dr. Monarez: That I told the secretary I would resign, that I was not aligned with the administrative -- administration's priorities, or that I was on trustworthy. None of those reflect what actually happened. I will share the details but I want to be clear. Today should not be about me. Today should be about the future of trust in public health.
▶ 0:35:15Dr. Monarez: The events leading to my dismissal began weeks before august 25. On august 2, I learned from media reports, that expert serving as leon river's representatives to the advisory committee on immunization practices, acip, including those from major medical societies, had been removed from its working groups.
▶ 0:35:40Dr. Monarez: The following week, I heard concerns that the acip might alter childhood vaccine schedule at its september meeting, potentially without credible supporting data. On august 8, a gunman, driven by vaccine distrust, fired 180 rounds into cdc headquarters in atlanta, killing officer david
▶ 0:36:10Dr. Monarez: Rose. In the days after the attack, I focused on security, staff, and ensuring the cdc could continue its mission. On august 19, I received a directive from the secretary's office that I now require prior approval from my political staff for cdc policy and personnel decisions.
▶ 0:36:39Dr. Monarez: On august 21, I was told to return to washington from atlanta immediately, which would have meant missing officer rose's memorial. Something I was not willing to do. When I did return, I was concerned about my ability to continue to lead the cdc preserving evidence-based decision-making, commitments I had made to this committee during my confirmation hearing.
▶ 0:37:08Dr. Monarez: On the morning of august 25, secretary kennedy demanded two things of me that were inconsistent with my oath of office and the ethics required of a public official. He directed me to commit in advance to approving every acip recommendation regardless of the scientific events.
▶ 0:37:33Dr. Monarez: He also directed me to dismiss career officials responsible for vaccine policy without cause. He said if I was unwilling to do both, I should resign. I responded that I could not pre-approve without reviewing the evidence, and I had no basis to fire scientific experts. He told me he had already spoken with the white house several times about having me removed.
▶ 0:38:06Dr. Monarez: For three decades, I have worked at the intersection of public health, science, and technology innovation, always challenging the status quo and welcoming the changes that come from research and discovery. Even under pressure, I could not replace evidence with ideology or compromise my integrity.
▶ 0:38:25Chair Cassidy: Dr. monarez, you are almost out of time. I will be generous but if you could speed up.
▶ 0:38:33Dr. Monarez: As I wrote in my september 4 wall street journal op-ed, I agree with president trump. We should not hesitate to ask for proof about our vaccines. I also agree with his most recent comments that vaccines are not controversial because they work. Demanding evidence is exactly what I was doing when I insisted cdc recommendations be based on credible science.
▶ 0:38:58Dr. Monarez: I was never misaligned with the administration priorities, the goals secretary kennedy recently cited publicly, protecting the public from threats, building infrastructure, modernizing systems, investing in the workforce, and enhancing scientific rigor with the same priorities are articulated out my confirmation hearing and began advancing during my short tenure. I remain supportive of those priorities. The question is whether they can be achieved without the expertise required at cdc.
▶ 0:39:27Dr. Monarez: Regarding trustworthiness, I cannot defy that word for secretary kennedy. I made commitments to this committee that I would lead with integrity, transparency, purpose, and work with congress to maximize health outcomes and protect the american people. Secretary kennedy told me he could not trust me. I had refused to commit to approving vaccine recommendations without evidence, fire career officials without cause, or resign, and I had shared my concerns with this committee.
▶ 0:39:55Dr. Monarez: I told the secretary that if he believed he could not trust me, he could fire me. The next day, I was told I still have my job but the secretary's expectations remained, approval of acip recommendations and dismissal of career scientists. I would not commit to that, and I believe it is the true reason I was fired. Tomorrow, the reconstituted acip will meet. It's constitution has already raised concern for the medical community.
▶ 0:40:24Dr. Monarez: Based on what I observed from my tenure, there is a risk that recommendations can be made restricting access to vaccines for children without scientific review with no permanent cdc director in place, those recommendations could be adopted. The stakes are not theoretical. We already have seen the largest measles outbreak in more than 30 years which claimed the lives of two children. If vaccine protections are weakened, preventable diseases will return.
▶ 0:40:53Dr. Monarez: I was fired for holding the line on scientific integrity but that line does not disappear with me. It now runs through every parent deciding whether to vaccinate a child, every physician counseling a patient, and every american who demands accountability. I want to and where I began with my confirmation hearing. I spoke that about the value of hard work, paying my own way through college, and my lifelong dedication to science and public health.
▶ 0:41:20Dr. Monarez: On august 25, I could have stayed silent, agreed to the demands, and no one would have known. What the public would have seen more scientists dismissed without cause and vaccine protections quietly eroded, all under the authority of a senate confirmed director with unimpeachable credentials. I could have kept the office, the title, but I would have lost the one thing that cannot be replaced, my integrity.
▶ 0:41:49Dr. Monarez: Some may question my motives or mischaracterize my words. That is part of public life. But I am not here as a politician. I am here as a scientist, public servant, and parent committed to protecting the health of future generations. The question before us is whether we will keep faith with our children and grandchildren, ensuring they remain safe from the diseases we fought so hard to defeat. Polio, measles, diphtheria, whooping cough, and many others.
▶ 0:42:19Dr. Monarez: I'm doing that progress would not only be reckless, it would turn every family that trust is to protect their health. Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:42:26Chair Cassidy: Thank you. Dr. houry.
▶ 0:42:29Dr. Houry: Chairman cassidy, ranking member sanders, embers of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Three weeks ago, I made one of the hardest decisions of my career. I resigned from cdc. I come to you as a doctor, as a scientist, and a mom.
▶ 0:42:50Dr. Houry: For over a decade, I worked as an emergency physician, treating patients where I saw firsthand how illness and death devastate families and loved ones, and even more devastating when it is preventable. That is what led to my career in public health. I change my focus from treating individual patients to protecting the nation. I served 10 years at cdc under six directors and four administrations.
▶ 0:43:16Dr. Houry: In each case, priorities shifted, but decisions were grounded in evidence, transparency, and consultation with the world's best scientists. That has changed. I resigned because cdc leaders were reduced to rubberstamps, supporting policies not based in science, and putting american lives at risk. Secretary kennedy center at cdc science, politicized its processes, and stripped leaders of independence.
▶ 0:43:47Dr. Houry: I could not in good conscious remain under those conditions. America's progress in health is one of the greatest success stories of history. A century and a half ago, life expectancy hovered around 39 years. Today, it is nearly double that. And we got there through vaccinations, through super food and water, smoking cessation, and through the quiet, steady work of public health in every state and county across the country.
▶ 0:44:17Dr. Houry: There is certainly more work to be done to improve the health of our nation, but when we erode the institutions and processes that deliver evidence-based interventions to detect, prevent, and respond to health challenges, as secretary kennedy is doing, we trade proven gains for affordable harm. We know vaccines save lives, yet, all 17 voting members of acip, the committee that sets vaccine recommendations, were replaced with critics.
▶ 0:44:47Dr. Houry: Flu campaigns were halted despite 200 70 pediatric flu deaths last season, the highest nonpandemic total ever, with 90% of those children being under or unvaccinated. We also saw the highest number of measles cases in 30 years with two children dying. Instead of promoting vaccines, the secretary spread misinformation and promoted unproven treatments.
▶ 0:45:17Dr. Houry: Cdc's labs and data systems are the nation's first line of defense against pandemics and bio threats. But those defenses are being weakened under the secretary, global flu sample submissions have dropped by 60%, and covid samples by 70%, leaving us with far less visibility into what is coming. At the same time, experts on birth defects and chronic disease out of cdc will fragment our response capacity.
▶ 0:45:48Dr. Houry: We learned during zika and more recently, that reproductive health expertise was essential in these complex infectious diseases causing birth defects. Due to the secretary's actions, our nation is on track to see drastic increases in preventable diseases and declines in health. Trust and transparency have been broken. Here again the problem is not too much science, but to little.
▶ 0:46:17Dr. Houry: I first learned the secretary had changed our cdc covid vaccine guidance on an x social media post. Cdc scientists have still not seen the scientific data or justification for this change. That is not gold standard science.
▶ 0:46:34Dr. Houry: The secretary's office ordered the removal from our website of the cdc scientific document on thimerosal and additive to vaccines that science has shown is not linked to autism, while allowing an undivided presentation on thimerosal to happen at acip containing scientific assertions that were not assessed for data quality and bias. That kind of a last-minute alteration undermines confidence and the deliberations that follow and is certainly not radical transparency.
▶ 0:47:07Dr. Houry: While at cdc, I worked with thousands of the hardest working dedicated people I know who come to work every day to help all americans live safer, healthier lives. My goal today is to provide real examples of the damage cdc is experiencing and to offer constructive steps within congress's responsibility. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:47:27Chair Cassidy: Thank you. Obviously, I was generous with Dr. monarez. When and if hhs officials, I'll be equally generous with them. I said publicly that we would swear in the witnesses but that would require consent of a minority, and the minority did not agree to that. Please.
▶ 0:47:47Sen. Sanders: When secretary kennedy came before us, he was not sworn into to the best of my knowledge. No person every before the health committee has ever been sworn in.
▶ 0:47:58Chair Cassidy: The right of the minority to reject that. Susan. >> I would ask unanimous consent that the witnesses for this hearing and the subsequent hearing be sworn in.
▶ 0:48:16Chair Cassidy: Unanimous consent, the motion has been made. Is there a rejection?
▶ 0:48:21Sen. Sanders: I object to the request to the way our committee rules. We did not swear in secretary kennedy. He appeared before this committee on two occasions. To change the rules right now in a highly politicized moment seems to me to be extremely unfair to Dr. monarez and Dr. houry.
▶ 0:48:43Chair Cassidy: She is suggesting we would do it for the hhs officials.
▶ 0:48:47Sen. Sanders: We have not done it. I think it is unfair. You did not swear in kennedy on two occasions. I don't think you should change the rules now.
▶ 0:48:57Chair Cassidy: I will note it is illegal to lie to congress anyway. [laughter] I do think putting people under oath sometimes makes them more believable.
▶ 0:49:07Chair Cassidy: Maybe discuss maybe discuss that with future hearings, but let's go along right now.
▶ 0:49:14Chair Cassidy: Dr. monarez, I just entered into the record the op-ed from the secretary, your report, and both of those are just that you and secretary kennedy were pretty aligned on cdc priorities. How many times did you meet with secretary? Be brief, I have five minutes.
▶ 0:49:37Dr. Monarez: Can you hear me? I met with him twice, when he swore me income he was in the room. Then I met him again on august 11 when he came down to tour the buildings that had been under the gunfire. We chatted briefly.
▶ 0:49:55Chair Cassidy: The 20 fifth, as well?
▶ 0:49:58Dr. Monarez: That's correct.
▶ 0:50:00Chair Cassidy: How many meetings around the period of the 25th?
▶ 0:50:05Dr. Monarez: We had three distinct meetings that day.
▶ 0:50:08Chair Cassidy: What did he tell you to do?
▶ 0:50:11Dr. Monarez: In the first meeting, he asked me to commit to firing scientists or resign. He asked me to recommit to signing off on each and every one of the forthcoming acip recommendations, regardless of whether or not there was scientific evidence.
▶ 0:50:33Chair Cassidy: What were those recommendations, did you have a foreshadowing of what they would be?
▶ 0:50:37Dr. Monarez: We did not.
▶ 0:50:39Chair Cassidy: He just wanted you to approve them.
▶ 0:50:42Dr. Monarez: He wanted blanket approval. If I could not commit to approval of each and every one of the recommendations that would be forthcoming I needed to resign. I did not resign. That is when he told me he had already spoken to the white house about having me removed.
▶ 0:50:57Chair Cassidy: Did he ever communicated that he would change the childhood vaccination schedule?
▶ 0:51:03Dr. Monarez: Not until that very day, and that morning meeting, he said the child vaccine schedule reached changing starting in september and I need to be on board with it.
▶ 0:51:14Chair Cassidy: Did he ever suggest that he was speaking for the president?
▶ 0:51:18Dr. Monarez: In that morning meeting, he did say he had spoken to the president, spoke to the president every day about changing the childhood vaccine schedule.
▶ 0:51:28Chair Cassidy: Did secretary kennedy ask you to speak to anybody outside of hhs?
▶ 0:51:34Dr. Monarez: He did. In the second meeting that day, he indicated that one of his colleagues or collaborators, I don't know what the relationship is, was coming into town the following week, and he wanted me to meet with that person.
▶ 0:51:49Chair Cassidy: Who was that person?
▶ 0:51:51Dr. Monarez: The person was named aaron siri.
▶ 0:51:55Chair Cassidy: Is he the trial attorney who wanted to get rid of the polio vaccine allegedly and president trump slapped them down and said he couldn't do that?
▶ 0:52:07Dr. Monarez: I know that he is the public report, the individual that suggested getting rid of the polio vaccine.
▶ 0:52:15Chair Cassidy: Secretary kennedy told the finance committee that he did not ask you to pre-approve, but that you are biased against a new acip, and he just asked you to keep an open mind. Did he cite any data or science as it relates to the potential acip recommendations to persuade you to support them?
▶ 0:52:35Dr. Monarez: He did not have any data or signs to point to. As a matter of fact, we got into an exchange where I had suggested that I would be open to changing childhood vaccine schedules if the evidence or signs were supportive.
▶ 0:52:53Dr. Monarez: He responded that there was no science or evidence associated with the childhood vaccine schedule, and he elaborated that cdc has never collected the science or the data to make it available related to the safety --
▶ 0:53:07Chair Cassidy: He said there was not science or data but that you still expected you change the schedule.
▶ 0:53:12Dr. Monarez: Correct.
▶ 0:53:14Chair Cassidy: Dr. houry, Dr. monarez said the secretary directed her to accept vaccine recommendations without seeing them, no reports of science. Related to tomorrow's acip meeting, who decides who is on the agenda?
▶ 0:53:28Dr. Houry: I don't have great visibility into that. I know the senior advisor and hhs counselor work with our staff and as an individual to propose items.
▶ 0:53:38Chair Cassidy: Who is the senior counselor?
▶ 0:53:40Dr. Monarez: Senior advisor is stuart burns. Counselor is ran archer.
▶ 0:53:45Chair Cassidy: Those are political appointees answerable to the secretary?
▶ 0:53:49Dr. Monarez: Yes.
▶ 0:53:51Chair Cassidy: Is that normally the way a agenda is set for a scientific meeting?
▶ 0:53:56Dr. Monarez: Not since I have been at the cdc.
▶ 0:54:00Chair Cassidy: Were you told to disregard science or to enhance science? What were you supposed to do? I'm talking about this meeting coming up.
▶ 0:54:11Dr. Houry: We didn't have workgroups other than one for covid, so cdc scientists were being asked by acip to develop questions and recommendations. I did suggest additional questions that the hepatitis b workgroup could look at so they can look at differences in age groups. The senior advisor was concerned that could bias, moving away from a birth dose. I asked how that could do by us we didn't have the answers.
▶ 0:54:38Chair Cassidy: Bias against -- you are suggesting they wanted to move away from the birth dose but were afraid that your data would say that they should retain it?
▶ 0:54:46Dr. Monarez: Correct.
▶ 0:54:48Chair Cassidy: Senator sanders.
▶ 0:54:51Sen. Sanders: Dr. monarez, secretary kennedy called you a liar for stating that you were fired because you refuse to pre-approve vaccine recommendations. Is that accurate? Are you a lawyer?
▶ 0:55:06Dr. Monarez: That is not accurate.
▶ 0:55:10Sen. Sanders: Why did you believe it was so important for you to refuse to rubberstamp vaccine recommendations without seeing them or the evidence behind them? What did you feel was the worst case scenario if you had agreed to doing that?
▶ 0:55:30Dr. Monarez: I refused to do it because I have built a career on scientific integrity. My worst fear was that I would then be in a position of approving something that would reduce access of life-saving vaccines to children and others who need them.
▶ 0:55:53Sen. Sanders: Dr. monarez, the american medical association, largest physician group in america, 270,000 physicians, the american academy of pediatrics, over 67,000 pediatricians, the american academy of family physicians, representing over 120 5000 doctors, american osteopathic association, representing over 200,000 doctors, american college of
▶ 0:56:24Sen. Sanders: Physicians, representing over 160,000 doctors, they believe that vaccines are safe and effective. Do you agree with them?
▶ 0:56:32Dr. Houry: I do.
▶ 0:56:35Sen. Sanders: And what is your concern, what are the long-term implications for the well-being of our kids in the future of our country if faith in vaccine science is undermined?
▶ 0:56:49Dr. Houry: I believe preventable diseases will return and I believe we will have our children harmed for things that we know they do not need to be harmed by. Polio, measles, diphtheria, whooping cough. I worry about the ramifications for those children in illness and in death. I worry about our school systems.
▶ 0:57:17Dr. Houry: I worry about our medical institutions having to take care of sick kids that could have been prevented by effective and safe vaccines. I worry about the future of trust in public health.
▶ 0:57:29Sen. Sanders: Would you agree with me in suggesting that the overwhelming body of scientific and medical thought believes that vaccines have been a major public health advance for the people of this world?
▶ 0:57:46Dr. Monarez: I absolutely agree with that.
▶ 0:57:49Sen. Sanders: Dr. houry, during your testimony, you talked about fears for the future he would several years ago, everybody in this country knows, we went through a terrible pandemic from a worldwide pandemic. We lost over one million people.
▶ 0:58:10Sen. Sanders: If trust in vaccines is diminished, if moms do not take their kids to get vaccines, people do not get vaccines, what will that mean in terms of our ability to save lives, if god forbid, another pandemic comes our way?
▶ 0:58:28Dr. Houry: We are already beginning to see that as we see childhood vaccination rates decrease. For example, measles is down to 92 point 8%, leaving over 200,000 kids at risk for measles. We are at risk for measles outbreaks. For the next type of pandemic, a novel pathogen, with the staff cuts we have made, we have less ready responders, less visibility into global pathogens at this time.
▶ 0:58:53Sen. Sanders: What would've happened to our country and in fact the world -- I don't agree with president trump often -- but if we had not developed warp speed, that covid vaccine. In your view, the debt save millions of lives?
▶ 0:59:10Dr. Houry: Operation warp speed save millions of lives and was a godsend to our country.
▶ 0:59:15Sen. Sanders: If you don't have the ability to do that in the future, the implications will be?
▶ 0:59:20Dr. Houry: We won't have vaccines to save lives and protect people. We will not have the platform. We will not have people willing to accept vaccines.
▶ 0:59:28Sen. Sanders: That will affect not only our country but people across the world.
▶ 0:59:34Dr. Houry: Absolutely.
▶ 0:59:37Sen. Paul: Dr. monarez, I agree we need to restore trust and public health. But in order to do so, we have to have a discussion about the actual science. We cannot have a discussion, all vaccines are good, all vaccines are bad. This is about specific vaccines, specific age groups, about specific policies. Does the covid vaccine prevent transmission?
▶ 1:00:02Dr. Monarez: The covid vaccine can reduce viral load in individuals.
▶ 1:00:06Sen. Paul: Does it prevent transmission?
▶ 1:00:08Dr. Monarez: When you have reduce viral load, you will have reduced transmission.
▶ 1:00:13Sen. Paul: In other words, you can still transmit the virus if you have the vaccine. In fact, there has been reduced ability to interfere with transmission over time. But we found is the most recent ones since omicron is down around 60% reduction, if there is a reduction. Does the covid vaccine reduce population for children under 18?
▶ 1:00:35Dr. Monarez: It can.
▶ 1:00:37Sen. Paul: It doesn't. The subjects are income-producing -- inconclusive. The reason is because soap few people under 18 go to the hospital. There are like 76 million kids under 18 in our country, 183 died, a few thousand went to the hospital in 2020 and 2021.
▶ 1:00:59Sen. Paul: Since then, the numbers have dropped precipitously, the idea needs to be discussed, but the covid vaccine is not reducing hospitalization, it is not statistically significant. Does the covid vaccine reduce the rate of death for children under 18?
▶ 1:01:12Dr. Monarez: It can.
▶ 1:01:14Sen. Paul: Ridiculous answer once again. No, it doesn't. It does reduce the death rate. These are statistics. When they approved it, they had this discussion at the vaccine committee. During the discussion, they acknowledged there was no proof of reduction in hospitalization or in debts, so what they did is said, what can we use to make people take this vaccine? They came up with this.
▶ 1:01:42Sen. Paul: They said if we give you a covid vaccine, you make antibodies, so really the recommendation for having a covid vaccine from six months up is not based on hospitalization data, not based on deaths, it is based on whether you make antibodies are not. What people fail to see from this, I can inject you with a foreign protein every week and measure antibodies. You will make antibodies every time. Has nothing to do with whether you should get a vaccine every week.
▶ 1:02:10Sen. Paul: When we are discussing the science here, we have to discuss what is the science in favor of giving the vaccine to a six month old and what are the benefits from that? There is no benefit of hospitalization or death. What were the risks of the vaccine be? We have large population studies of the risk of vaccines and younger people.
▶ 1:02:29Sen. Paul: It turns out you don't see this as much if you look at the general population but once you start isolating by age group, which you have to in covid because there is such a disparity among a group, we find there is a risk of myocarditis. Somewhere between six and eight in 10,000 but that is much greater than the risk of hospitalization or debt which is not even measurable because they are so small. You resisted firing people who have this idea that the covid vaccine should be is at six months. This is what Mrs. was about.
▶ 1:03:00Sen. Paul: He didn't resist firing the beautiful scientists that were career people and on objective and unbiased. You wouldn't fire the people who are saying that we have to vaccinate our kids at six months of age. That is who he refused to fire.
▶ 1:03:15Dr. Monarez: So, that assertion is not commensurate with the experience I had with the individuals who were identified to be fired.
▶ 1:03:26Sen. Paul: Did any of the people refused to fire believe that we should change the vaccine schedule no longer for six month old kids to take it? Every one of them was adamant we should keep it at six months. Change the childhood routine. We should. There is no medical reason. What is the medical reason to give a hepatitis b vaccine to a newborn whose mom has no hepatitis?
▶ 1:03:52Dr. Monarez: None of the discussion points that you brought up were ever --
▶ 1:03:57Sen. Paul: That is changing the childhood schedule.
▶ 1:04:00Chair Cassidy: You had your time.
▶ 1:04:04Sen. Paul: This is the debate over changing the childhood schedule. The hepatitis b vaccine on the schedule is given to newborns. What is the medical, scientific reason and proof for giving a newborn a hepatitis b vaccine if the mom is hep b negative?
▶ 1:04:23Dr. Monarez: I want to go back to the assertion --
▶ 1:04:26Sen. Paul: What is the medical reason for giving a hepatitis b vaccine to a newborn? Everyone is going along, you are somehow terrible if you want to change the childhood. We should be discussing what is the childhood vaccine schedule, and you should be -- the burden should be on you. You want to make all the kids take this.
▶ 1:04:47Sen. Paul: The burden is on you and people you wouldn't fire to prove to us that we need to give our six month old a covid vaccine and when to give our one day old a hepatitis b vaccine. That is what the debate ought to be about, not whether all vaccines are good or whether we live in alice in wonderland.
▶ 1:05:02Dr. Monarez: I agree with you and I was open to the science. I just would not pre-commit to approving all of the acip recommendations without the science.
▶ 1:05:11Sen. Paul: Untrue. >> is the witness allowed to answer the question?
▶ 1:05:26Chair Cassidy: Anything more to say, Dr. monarez Dr. monarez: the last thing I want to say about those scientists, we never discussed any of their thoughts, considerations --
▶ 1:05:37Chair Cassidy: Who is we?
▶ 1:05:39Dr. Monarez: Me and a scientist I was being asked to dismiss. As far as I know, they never said they were pre-committed to maintaining any of the decisions that have been made. All of us had agreed that the science evolves and we need to see the data and the evidence to ensure that we are protecting our children.
▶ 1:06:01Sen. Murray: Thank you. In may, secretary kennedy announced in a video on social media that the covid vaccine was no longer going to be recommended under cdc guidelines for most children and pregnant women. The fallout was actually immediate. I heard from a nurse in my state who was pregnant, she was trying to get the vaccine. She was turned away by several pharmacies, ended up calling my office and said what am I going to do? Dr.
▶ 1:06:27Sen. Murray: Houry, I want to ask you, how did you learn about cdc's new covid vaccination guidance?
▶ 1:06:34Dr. Houry: The same as you come on social media.
▶ 1:06:38Sen. Murray: What was her title at cdc when that happened?
▶ 1:06:41Dr. Houry: Chief medical officer of the agency.
▶ 1:06:44Sen. Murray: It is unthinkable to me that the chief medical officer at the cdc was left in the dark about such a consequential public health decision that affected real people. Dr. houry, how was this change in kind it's by scientific evidence?
▶ 1:07:02Dr. Houry: We have not seen the data yet. In fact, after the tweet came out, we asked for a written memo from hhs because I couldn't implement guidance off of a tweet. The written guidance didn't say the same as the video.
▶ 1:07:18Sen. Murray: You cannot provide guidance off of a tweet.
▶ 1:07:21Dr. Houry: I didn't think that was appropriate. We asked for the data to back it up and we have not received the data to date.
▶ 1:07:28Sen. Murray: The secretary has made clear that he wants to change the childhood vaccination schedule for measles and chickenpox and hep b, as well as the covid vaccine recommendations. Acip is meeting tomorrow to consider those recommendations. Dr. monarez, Dr.
▶ 1:07:45Sen. Murray: Houry, are you aware of any scientific evidence to support changing the age which children should get these vaccines that is being considered by this advisory committee?
▶ 1:08:01Dr. Monarez: I am not. I was certainly open, if there was scientific data sets or evidence associated with anything that would help keep our children safe. I was open to seeing it. I have not seen that data.
▶ 1:08:16Dr. Houry: Ditto. We have asked for the data and the modeling to support any decision done.
▶ 1:08:22Sen. Murray: Are any of you aware of any scientific evidence to change the eligibility for covid vaccinations?
▶ 1:08:30Dr. Monarez: I have not seen any.
▶ 1:08:32Sen. Murray: It is pretty alarming, if there was such information, the director would be aware of it. Apparently there isn't. I want to continue asking about the acip. Secretary kennedy asked you to pre-approve the recommendations a month before the committee was scheduled to meet without knowing what they were or what evidence that was based on.
▶ 1:08:59Dr. Monarez: Correct.
▶ 1:09:01Sen. Murray: I find that troubling and ironic given what secretary kennedy said in june when he fired all 17 members of the acip without cause, and called them "a little more than a rubberstamp." that is exactly what he wanted you to be for the new that his new board of unqualified vaccine skeptics. The former members of acip actually met in april. Dr. monarez, Dr.
▶ 1:09:28Sen. Murray: Houry, would you feel confident that you could tell parents that they can trust the recommendations made by the committee back in may?
▶ 1:09:42Dr. Monarez: I would say that the individuals that were participating in april had the commensurate skill sets and background to be able to evaluate the decision before them. The processes were regular in terms of using the evidence to recommend. There were working groups that substantiated the information. There was robust information during the acip meeting.
▶ 1:10:12Dr. Monarez: I would say it comported to the standards where americans can trust them.
▶ 1:10:15Dr. Houry: Agreed. The data was presented and the committee was filled with experts with experience.
▶ 1:10:21Sen. Murray: The newly chosen acip members will meet again tomorrow. Will either of you feel confident telling parents that they cannot trust the acip recommendations coming out of this meeting?
▶ 1:10:35Dr. Monarez: Very nervous about it. They have not met yet. I know that the medical community has raised concerns about whether or not again they have the commencement backgrounds to understand the data and evidence, to evaluate it appropriately. I have not prejudged. I don't know what will happen. But I certainly will be watching.
▶ 1:10:55Dr. Houry: I have significant concerns that the public has not been able to weigh in. The general vote should have been posted two weeks ago, so the public knew what was going to be discussed. There have not been workgroups other than for covid. As of yesterday, the data has not been posted yet. It is unclear to me what decisions are being made.
▶ 1:11:15Sen. Murray: Thank you very much.
▶ 1:11:17Chair Cassidy: Senator collins.
▶ 1:11:22Sen. Collins: Thank you Mr. chairman. Dr. monarez, the recent turmoil at the cdc only serves to further undermine public confidence in its recommendations. You have had a very unusual tenure there to say the least.
▶ 1:11:44Sen. Collins: You started out as the acting director, had a good relationship with secretary kennedy, such that he recommended your appointment to the president. Then you were confirmed by a unanimous republican vote but opposed by every democrat and every independent in the senate. Then, less than a month on the job, you were abruptly fired.
▶ 1:12:18Sen. Collins: I want to discuss with you further the grounds for your firing. Even though I recognize the president has that authority, but as many of us have said, we just changed the law to make the cdc director confirmed by the senate, and thus, we have a duty here.
▶ 1:12:43Sen. Collins: First of all, senator kennedy -- secretary kennedy replaced every single member of the advisory committee. Did he consult with you about any of the replacements?
▶ 1:12:57Dr. Monarez: No.
▶ 1:12:58Sen. Collins: When you met with him on august 25, you have testified that he asked you to approve the recommendations of the new members of the committee regardless of what they were, is that correct?
▶ 1:13:19Dr. Monarez: That is correct.
▶ 1:13:21Sen. Collins: So secretary kennedy, in testimony before the finance committee, has denied asking you to do that. Is there any doubt -- could you describe the discussion that you had on that issue?
▶ 1:13:36Dr. Monarez: I'm happy to. The secretary come in that morning meeting, was very upset, very animated. He said with regard to that particular topic, I have heard that you may not sign off on the forthcoming acip recommendations.
▶ 1:14:03Dr. Monarez: And I said, I cannot sign off on something before I see the data in the evidence. And he said, elaborated on this for some period of time, that there is no data or evidence, there is no science, that cdc has never collected the data, the science and evidence associated with the efficacy of the vaccines, and that I needed to commit to signing off on each and everyone of those recommendd
▶ 1:14:35Dr. Monarez: If I could not commit to that, I needed to resign.
▶ 1:14:41Sen. Collins: What are the implications for public health if important scientific decisions at the cdc are made by the political staff rather than the career scientists?
▶ 1:14:58Dr. Monarez: It really concerns me read as you are aware and Dr. houry can elaborate, these are very important highly, technical discussions that have lifesaving implications for our children and others who need vaccines.
▶ 1:15:15Dr. Monarez: And if you don't have the commensurate skill sets or the ability to ask the right questions and you are willing to sign off on decisions that are not made with the best available data and evidence, it does put at risk our children, it puts at risk others who need these vaccines, and it takes us into a very dangerous place in public health.
▶ 1:15:40Sen. Collins: Dr. houry, did hhs sponsor the measles outbreak earlier this year differ from its response to other infectious disease outbreaks in your previous interactions? In several ways.
▶ 1:16:04Sen. Collins: I never briefed the secretary as did the center director who oversaw measles never briefed the secretary. Outbreak response usually would be briefing leadership. The second thing is he said things like vaccines had fetal parts and I had to send a note to our leadership team to correct that misinformation. We were also asked to include things like -- and our toolkits for physicians and could not allow that as it was in evidence for that and will result in harm.
▶ 1:16:32Sen. Collins: Thank you. >> thank you. Thank you for being here today and being willing to provide this committee with information about what is happening at the centers for disease control and prevention undersecretary robert f. Kennedy, jr.'s leadership.
▶ 1:16:57Sen. Collins: Despite his proclamations of radical transparency come secretary kennedy has consistently failed to provide information to congress as he continues to undermine public health from his role in the trump and administration. You have heard from me before having secretary kennedy in charge of the health of americans is dangerous. What we are hearing from you today really underscores this for me.
▶ 1:17:27Sen. Collins: Dr. monarez, your confirmation was before the senate I had doubts anyone in your position would be able to stick to the signs and stand up to secretary kennedy as he compromises the health of the country in order to further his own ideas and agenda. I am pleased to see that you and other senior members of the cdc like Dr. houry did stand up to him when the time came.
▶ 1:17:57Sen. Collins: You both have spoken about censorship and requests to compromise scientific integrity. Dr. monarez, to secretary kennedy ever give you instructions on how you should interact with members of congress?
▶ 1:18:11Dr. Monarez: He did. After the morning meeting, I became very concerned. I was alarmed that I was not being consistent -- I would not be consistent with those areas that I had committed to this committee that I would do -- transparency, integrity. And I had reached out to the committee to share my concerns.
▶ 1:18:41Dr. Monarez: Secretary kennedy became aware of that and he was very concerned that I had spoken to members of congress and he told me I was never to do it again.
▶ 1:18:54Sen. Baldwin: Congress and the american people need to know what is happening at the cdc. This censorship is not radical transparency. It is unacceptable. Dr. monarez, --Dr. houry, I was shocked you found out about the changes of the covid policy on x. Decisions like this must be made in consultation with cdc experts.
▶ 1:19:24Sen. Baldwin: Because otherwise we are left wondering who is advising secretary of health. Or if his own conspiracy theories are enough to dictate who can get a vaccine. Dr. houry, did you ever prove secretary kennedy?
▶ 1:19:38Dr. Houry: I never briefed him. I accompanied him on a tour sea after the shooting.
▶ 1:19:48Sen. Baldwin: Did your center directors ever directly brief secretary kennedy?
▶ 1:19:50Dr. Houry: They did not.
▶ 1:19:55Sen. Baldwin: You're the chief medical officer at the cdc. Would you say it is harmful to the public if the secretary is not informed the experts like yourself?
▶ 1:20:05Dr. Houry: Very much so.
▶ 1:20:10Sen. Baldwin: How would you characterize his approach to working with scientific experts at the cdc?
▶ 1:20:14Dr. Houry: We would have loved to have had the conversations with him. I offered two different leaders that we would like to brief the secretary. He never received that and many times I would send emails to our leadership team to share with hhs when he did say things that were not scientifically correct. So could help support him. But again, our requests were not received to brief him.
▶ 1:20:39Sen. Baldwin: So tomorrow acip is set to discuss childhood vaccines and based on what we have seen happening under secretary kennedy's leadership, we have to expect it will produce weaker recommendations for these vaccines. At the same time, there is no senate confirmed cdc director in place.
▶ 1:21:02Sen. Baldwin: Secretary kennedy has installed someone he has convinced will rubberstamp whatever decisions is anti-vaccine advisory members make as the acting director. In wisconsin, there currently 36 cases of measles. All in unvaccinated individuals. 22 of whom are children. I am thankful that we have not seen any debts yet as we have in texas. Dr.
▶ 1:21:26Sen. Baldwin: Houry, you have seen firsthand in the er with vaccine preventable disease can do. What would an increase in vaccine preventable diseases mean for children and families across the country?
▶ 1:21:39Dr. Houry: It will be heartbreaking. Not only will it overwhelm the health care system, but children -- some will be deaf. We've seen congenital measles cases in the U.S. these are not harmless diseases. We saw the case in california of a young child that died of encephalitis from years after measles. These diseases have long-term consequences. We doubt -- in the U.S., we have gone so far in reversing this. We don't want our children to die.
▶ 1:22:10Chair Cassidy: We will go next to Dr. marshall and the for the sake of the committee after that we will take a 15 minute break to go vote and then we will come back and continue. Dr. marshall.
▶ 1:22:25Dr. Marshall: Despite the president's executive order, did you encourage people to work remotely ever?
▶ 1:22:31Dr. Monarez: I do not encourage people to work remotely.
▶ 1:22:39Sen. Marshall: There were allegations that you took some political appointees are basically kick them out of your office area. Did you reassign office location from desk location for political appointees?
▶ 1:22:49Dr. Monarez: I do it to go back to your first question. After the shooting, I allowed staff to work remotely.
▶ 1:23:00Sen. Marshall: You can give us details later. The second question, did you push political appointees out of your main office area, reassign the political appointees?
▶ 1:23:08Dr. Monarez: I brought some in.
▶ 1:23:12Sen. Marshall: Did you move some out?
▶ 1:23:13Dr. Monarez: There is a limited number of offices in my --.
▶ 1:23:21Sen. Marshall: Yes or no come did you move them out? Dr.
▶ 1:23:24Monarez: And I brought others in.
▶ 1:23:26Sen. Marshall: You believe every child over the age of six months should have a covid vaccine at least annually?
▶ 1:23:30Dr. Monarez: I believe that is a discussion a parent needs to have with her pediatrician. And if it is right for that child based on the risks, than that child should have the opportunity to get the vaccine.
▶ 1:23:45Sen. Marshall: If there are reports that show indeed the covid vaccination led to the death of children, without influence your bias?
▶ 1:23:51Dr. Monarez: I would certainly want to know about that.
▶ 1:23:58Sen. Marshall: The cdc currently recommends between 70-80 shots over the child's lifetime. Do you fully support that recommendation that every child needs every vaccine as were committed by the cdc?
▶ 1:24:09Dr. Monarez: The data associated with those recommendations has been validated and vetted and that is the current schedule.
▶ 1:24:17Sen. Marshall: So you agree, support every child needs every vaccine that is on the cdc recommendations. All 70-80 jabs.
▶ 1:24:23Dr. Monarez: The childhood vaccine schedule has been vetted and validated through science and evidence. The almost 20 different diseases that are mitigated through those vaccines are very important. I think every parent should have the opportunity to talk to the pediatrician and make sure they understand the benefits and the risks of those vaccines and what is in the best interest of their children. The poor marshaled you believe any and all should be mandated?
▶ 1:24:51Dr. Monarez: The cdc does not mandate vaccines. What the cdc does is provide the recommendations so that a parent and a physician can make the best determination for them.
▶ 1:25:04Sen. Marshall: When you are considering this job has cdc director, was there ever any doubt in your mind you could fulfill the mission to work with secretary kennedy?
▶ 1:25:13Dr. Monarez: There wasn't. I worked for political appointees and politicians promised 20 years. In my experience it has been when it comes are critical and important issues like science and medicine, data has always been paramount. It has always been a core driver to how we work together.
▶ 1:25:34Sen. Marshall: Would you agree with me at this point in time that you are not the right person for this job? That your belief system, thinking that every child needs every vaccine -- which is what your cdc does -- every child needs every vaccine come all 70-80, it certainly a different mindset then secretary kennedy's and that if the university president, a great sports analogy I hate to do this, but the university president and the athletic director decide you are
▶ 1:26:05Sen. Marshall: Not the right coach for this team that it is probably time to say goodbye and we need a new coach? Would you agree certainly you're going in different direction philosophically then secretary kennedy has?
▶ 1:26:18Dr. Monarez: I will stand behind scientific integrity with every decision I make it if I am put in a position of having to say I will cede the scientific integrity to retain my job, then I am not the right person for the position. I believe we must have science and evidence to support the best decisions for our children and others who would benefit from vaccines.
▶ 1:26:42Sen. Marshall: The biggest difference in philosophy I see is that I think the cdc is the cause of vaccine hesitancy, that you are the problem that because of covid and you're forcing these vaccines on people that weren't ever really proven or justified that the benefits did not outweigh the risks and you all set there with your hands in your pockets and let that happen. And then you let this happen -- the tightest vaccine be one day of hv forced upon every one.
▶ 1:27:09Sen. Marshall: And all of the moms and grandmas never trust you because you're trying to force vaccine that is not necessary at age day one. If you're going into nursing school, medical school, absolutely you consider the hepatitis vaccine.
▶ 1:27:25Sen. Marshall: Basically what the cdc does is act like a mandate and you force doctors that don't agree with you to kick patients out of their clinics because they don't want their child to be exposed to a vaccine that was approved after just like 140 patients took it being followed up for five days. It makes no sense to me that every person needs every vaccine. Regardless, some of the vaccines have done incredible work. They are a miracle. They have done a great job.
▶ 1:27:52Sen. Marshall: The basic spec since we got in 1960's and 1970's -- polio, mmr, those are great vaccines that have told a test of time. But your attitude here that every person needs every vaccine is completely contrary to secretary kennedy's philosophy and the mission of the present as president.
▶ 1:28:10Chair Cassidy: Will stand in recess. I expect it will be about 15 minutes. We ask the members of the audience to stay in receipt so the witnesses can retreat to the holding room. We will be back. [gavel]
▶ 1:49:35Chair Cassidy: We will come to order. As I said earlier, some of our colleagues who are staying on the floor for the next boat so we will go ahead and start with who we have here. We are expecting people to show up it in the meantime, senator hassan is a beneficiary as she leaves three people. Thank you. Thank you both for being here today. Dr.
▶ 1:50:03Chair Cassidy: Monarez, junior confirmation process, I was frankly unsure about whether you would stand up to secretary kennedy. Thank you for standing up to secretary kennedy and again for being here today. During her confirmation hearing, Dr. monarez, I asked you whether you would follow the law or follow orders that would violate the law and you said that you did not believe that you would be asked to break the law.
▶ 1:50:32Chair Cassidy: In your testimony, you say that you were asked to take actions that violated your oath of office. Which is an oath to support and defend the constitution and to well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office. What directive did you receive that would have violated your oath of office?
▶ 1:50:51Dr. Monarez: It was actually the latter part that concerned me. Well and dutifully execute the functions of the office and being asked to compromise scientific integrity associated with those decisions and to fire individuals without cause gave me pause about that phrase.
▶ 1:51:18Sen. Hassan: Is it fair to say one of the ways you could describe your duties of the office is to protect the health of families and children by making sure you adhere to science?
▶ 1:51:27Dr. Monarez: That is exactly right.
▶ 1:51:30Sen. Hassan: Doctors, have shared secretary kennedy demanded that you blindly rubberstamp his future vaccine decisions. When you pushed back on secretary kennedy's demands, how did he react?
▶ 1:51:43Dr. Monarez: He was very upset. The entire meeting was very tense. He was very upset throughout the entirety of our discussion. It was not a productive exchange of information.
▶ 1:52:03Sen. Hassan: What was the secretary's reaction when he raised the need to consult scientific evidence before making decisions?
▶ 1:52:09Dr. Monarez: ?
▶ 1:52:10I'M Sorry Sen. Hassan: What was the secretary's reaction when he raised the need to consult scientific evidence before making decisions?
▶ 1:52:18Dr. Monarez: This is when he stated that cdc had not collected the data or the science, there was no scientific evidence associated with these vaccines. He said that cdc had failed in its duties to be able to appropriately evaluate the safety, efficacy, never had conducted controlled clinical trials associated with the
▶ 1:52:49Dr. Monarez: Vaccines. He made another set of assertions associated with cdc that were particularly pointed and particularly hurtful and disparaging. He called in that context cdc the most corrupt federal agency in the world. Emphasize that cdc employees were horrible people. He had said -- I'm sorry.
▶ 1:53:16Dr. Monarez: He said that cdc employees were killing children and they don't care. He said cdc employees were bought by the pharmaceutical industry. He said cdc forced people to wear masks and social distance like a dictatorship. And when I think that hurt me the most was particularly vivid phrase he said during the covid outbreaks, cdc told hospitals to turn away sick covid patients until they had blue lips before allowing them to get treatment.
▶ 1:53:48Sen. Hassan: It is fair to say in your view that the statement's are not true.
▶ 1:53:51Dr. Monarez: Though statements are not true.
▶ 1:53:55Sen. Hassan: What was the secretary's department as you pushed back -- temperament as you pushed back?
▶ 1:54:01Dr. Monarez: He was very upset with me. The temperament was similar to the times under duress during senate finance committee hearing, if that is helpful. He was extremely animated toward me in that room.
▶ 1:54:23Sen. Hassan: Was a secretary's thinking and reasoning clear to you during those meetings?
▶ 1:54:27Dr. Monarez: The secretary was clear in the two things he was demanding of me. Demanding the fire no scientist and demanding of the preapproval of the vaccine recommendations. Some of the things that he was talking about were clearly not aligned with the scientific evidence that I knew related to safety and efficacy and placebo-controlled trials.
▶ 1:54:54Dr. Monarez: And the conversation seemed to change points very quickly. It was hard sometimes to follow the logic that he was putting forward. Again, he was very, very upset and very animated.
▶ 1:55:13Sen. Hassan: Mr. chair, yes or no question and then we will be done. You said the secretary spoke at length about the cdc. During that time, did he ever express condolences for the police officer who was killed during the recent shooting at the cdc with the two children who died of measles this year?
▶ 1:55:29Dr. Monarez: During that meeting, no.
▶ 1:55:34Chair Cassidy: . >> Dr. monarez, you and I spoke of gas a little over a month ago in my office and we talked about trust and it was really my number one concern because president trump was elected by the american people to make change. And our health care system during covid, there is a lot of things that were exposed, cdc was one of them.
▶ 1:56:01Chair Cassidy: Looking for someone who could run the cdc for change and get the trust back of the american people. Do you agree or disagree that the cdc director reports to the hhs secretary?
▶ 1:56:11Dr. Monarez: The cdc director does report to the hhs secretary. >> do you believe that president trump has a right and authority to pick his cabinet?
▶ 1:56:22Dr. Monarez: He does. >> after you are nominated, what kind of conversations did you have with secretary kennedy before your confirmation or was there any?
▶ 1:56:37Dr. Monarez: Between the nomination and the confirmation? I don't recall any engagement. >> what about before your nomination period.
▶ 1:56:48Dr. Monarez: We did have some conversations, yes. >> positive?
▶ 1:56:54Dr. Monarez: He was excited about my priorities, transforming public health infrastructure, modernizing the agency, preparing for the next pandemic. We had some productive engagements about the technological innovations that I wanted to bring the cdc. I was enthusiastic and I believe he was as well.
▶ 1:57:14Dr. Monarez: >> the problem I have here is probably this conversation should have maybe a little more private, this is how I handle mine if people were let go back when I had some kind of control over situation but that being said, it is hard to explain here to find out who is telling the truth. Because there is a lot of discrepancies on both sides after secretary kennedy and no you here today.
▶ 1:57:46Dr. Monarez: The american people want bureaucrats to understand you're not -- we did not elect to you. We want you to do your job. I think you agree with that. America needs better than this at the end of the day. I'm going to ask you some questions here and did you tell the secretary you are untrustworthy?
▶ 1:58:08Dr. Monarez: He asked me -- he did not ask me, he told me he could not trust me. He told me he could not trust me. Because I had shared information related to our conversation beyond his staff. I told him if you cannot trust me, then you can fire me.
▶ 1:58:34Sen. Tuberville: Ok. Did you remove or work actively undermine political leadership appointed by president trump?
▶ 1:58:43Dr. Monarez: I don't believe so.
▶ 1:58:47Sen. Tuberville: Anybody in the cdc? Nobody -- once you got into office, was anyone removed or fired? Were they changed positions?
▶ 1:58:57Dr. Monarez: There were no political appointees that I changed positions.
▶ 1:59:02Sen. Tuberville: Ok. Did you refuse to update the cdc website despite being instructed to do so, including things from this he -- the cdc website like birthing people, health equity, a policy that came down from the president of the united states? Did you refuse to do that?
▶ 1:59:23Dr. Monarez: No. I did not refuse to do that.
▶ 1:59:28Sen. Tuberville: Ok. That's all I got, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:59:34Chair Cassidy: I asked unanimous consent to enter the following which has come out while we have been in this meeting. From "the washington post in email to Dr. monarez, chief of staff at the department of health and human services wrote, "I want to elevate the absolute need for political review a policy decisions as cdc -- this email was to Dr.
▶ 2:00:00Chair Cassidy: Monarez -- political leadership should have eyes on the decisions for approval changes before they go into effect." I will enter that into the record without objection. Senator murphy.
▶ 2:00:18Sen. Murphy: Thank you. I just want to understand how unprecedented this moment is and how unprecedented these changes are that are compromising our families and our kids safety. Just some simple yes and no questions I think. Dr. monarez, is there any precedent for a new administration dismissing the entirety of the vaccine advisory board and appointing a totally new board?
▶ 2:00:48Dr. Monarez: I have not had any awareness of that happening grievously.
▶ 2:00:55Sen. Murphy: 's earning precedent for the cdc director being required to clear personnel and policy decisions with political staff in the way that you are requested?
▶ 2:01:05Dr. Monarez: That has never been my experience.
▶ 2:01:09Sen. Budd: Murphy -- Sen.
▶ 2:01:12Murphy: , asking a director to preapproved vaccine recommendations without ever having actually seen the recommendations themselves or the medical and scientific evidence backing them up?
▶ 2:01:23Dr. Monarez: I've never experienced that.
▶ 2:01:26Sen. Murphy: You stated in a previous answer to a question that during your august 25 meeting the secretary referenced he has spoken to president trump about his feelings about the childhood vaccine schedule. You testified he had previewed for you there were going to be some significant changes coming.
▶ 2:01:51Sen. Murphy: Did he give you the impression that the president supported the changes that he was going to be pushing on the childhood vaccine schedule?
▶ 2:01:59Dr. Monarez: That was the impression I got and no way to substantiate whether the veracity of that.
▶ 2:02:06Sen. Murphy: Dropdead opens with a harrowing account of the august date shooting -- august 8 shooting. Clearly come the entire building is still reeling from that moment. 180 rounds being fired into the cdc. What a traumatizing event. I want to ask you about your fears. Dr.
▶ 2:02:34Sen. Murphy: Houry, would be glad to hear your thoughts as well. For the safety of the personnel at the cdc and the medical profession at large if more and more people believe that those that are recommending vaccines for our children and our families are hurting people. Clearly, you have to be unhinged to take a gun and fire it into a medical building.
▶ 2:03:01Sen. Murphy: But these conspiracy theories about vaccines and about the people who are recommending vaccines, I fear they come with consequences. Do you fear for the safety of the cdc and medical personnel if these beliefs about the cdc actually recommending things that hurt people continue to become mainstream?
▶ 2:03:22Dr. Monarez: I do worry about that. I myself was subject to threats. I am very concerned that the for the promulgation of misleading information will undermine not just the safety and health of our children, but it will also exacerbate some of these tensions, the willingness to commit harm if someone is affronted by a believe that the
▶ 2:03:54Dr. Monarez: People like us that are trying to help them are actually not trying to help them.
▶ 2:03:56Dr. Houry: I would just say it was 500 rounds. 180 that hit the building. Each bullet was meant for a person. Each of my staff were very traumatized afterwards. I had staff that were covering their kids in the daycare parking lot. There were people at the rideshare as bullets were passing over their head. I have made that won't speak about vaccines now, removed her name off of papers.
▶ 2:04:26Dr. Houry: They don't wish to present publicly anymore because they feel they were personally targeted because of misinformation.
▶ 2:04:33Sen. Murphy: You know a personnel who will not put their name behind good science? That they know would protect the health and safety of families and children because of their fear of violence?
▶ 2:04:44Dr. Houry: Correct. Even at the acip meeting, we don't have our experts presenting anymore. It is taken to a leadership level to protect our staff and scientists so they would be disconnected and their names not associated so that they won't be targeted.
▶ 2:05:03Sen. Murphy: Thank you both for your candor today and your service to the country.
▶ 2:05:05Chair Cassidy: Senator banks.
▶ 2:05:08Sen. Banks: Dr. monarez, I understand you have retained attorneys to dispute your firing. Correct? I believe there with you today.
▶ 2:05:17Dr. Monarez: Not to dispute the firing. I have been fired. They're here to help me prepare for this, to make sure I was in a position to be able to communicate effectively what transpired.
▶ 2:05:31Sen. Banks: Purpose is to support you just for today? Is are purpose to those attorneys?
▶ 2:05:35Dr. Monarez: They have been supporting me since knowing there was so much complexity associated with what happened.
▶ 2:05:43Sen. Banks: Did mark zaid connect with you or did you reach out to him?
▶ 2:05:50Dr. Monarez: I -- I believe --.
▶ 2:05:57Sen. Banks: How did you connect with him?
▶ 2:05:58Dr. Monarez: I was given his contact information.
▶ 2:06:03Sen. Banks: He did not contact you?
▶ 2:06:03Dr. Monarez: I don't recall.
▶ 2:06:07Sen. Banks: You said you're given his contact information. Who gave you that information?
▶ 2:06:10Dr. Monarez: I received it from a number of individuals with my termination being as abrupt as it was, people were concerned about the support structures that I would need to be able to make sure that --.
▶ 2:06:24Sen. Banks: He did not reach out to you, you were given his number and you reached out to him. Is that correct? That is what you just said.
▶ 2:06:31Dr. Monarez: I believe that is correct, although I don't have perfect --.
▶ 2:06:38Sen. Banks: I will ask one more time, he did not reach out to you?
▶ 2:06:40Dr. Monarez: I don't believe so.
▶ 2:06:44Sen. Banks: To thousands of lawyers you could hire to help you, why mark zaid?
▶ 2:06:48Dr. Monarez: Look, the moment, the hours after I had been terminated I was concerned -- a number of different facets associated with my termination, one of the things I wanted to make sure I did was have clarity of understanding of what had transpired and what would I --.
▶ 2:07:12Sen. Banks: You don't seem naive at all. You had to know mark zaid is a leading opponent of president trump. Notorious for his online activity that is very anti-trump. He was heavily involved in president trump's first impeachment. Why did you hire a guy like that of all of the thousands of attorneys?
▶ 2:07:36Sen. Banks: Furthermore, he advised his clients to leave the country after president trump won the 2020 four election. Why would you hire a guy like that?
▶ 2:07:44Dr. Monarez: I was not aware of any of those details associated with mark zaid.
▶ 2:07:52Sen. Banks: He is right behind you. Notorious for his anti-trump activity and involvement in you hired that guy.
▶ 2:07:59Dr. Monarez: I was seeking some critical counsel to be able to help me make sure I was understanding and aware of everything that had transpired in preparing for what might be next including this committee hearing. Mark zaid and I have never spoken about politics. I never ask him about his politics and he has never asked me about my politics. He is a well credentialed counsel.
▶ 2:08:30Sen. Banks: You are claiming to be naive about his political activity. As he sits behind you advising you for this hearing. Helping you through this process.
▶ 2:08:38Dr. Monarez: I have not had any discussions with Mr. zadeh associated with his politics.
▶ 2:08:44Sen. Banks: That is astonishing. During her confirmation hearing, testified about your priorities to "support president trump and secretary kennedy's vision of a healthier america." did your priorities change along the way?
▶ 2:09:00Dr. Monarez: They have not changed.
▶ 2:09:05Sen. Banks: When you are serving as acting cdc director and nominated and confirmed, your office they understood president trump and secretary kennedy's priorities. You office they understood those. What change along the way?
▶ 2:09:17Dr. Monarez: The only thing that changed was the demands that I compromise my integrity. I still support that we need to make our children healthier. I still support that we need to do all of the things --.
▶ 2:09:36Sen. Banks: You determined along the way you are not aligned with president trump and secretary kennedy.
▶ 2:09:41Dr. Monarez: I did not.
▶ 2:09:43Sen. Banks: Tell us more about the conversation about your trustworthiness.
▶ 2:09:47Dr. Monarez: Three things had happened.
▶ 2:09:51Sen. Banks: You deny that you yourself told secretary kennedy that you were trustworthy.
▶ 2:09:58Dr. Monarez: I did not. He asked me -- so, look. That morning, I have been clear I was not going to fire scientists. That I was not going to pre-commit -- commit to pre-approving vaccine recommendations without data and science.
▶ 2:10:23Dr. Monarez: I had been very alarmed at the demands and I had reached out as part of what I understood my obligations to communicate that to this committee. The secretary became aware of that. And in the context of those activities, he told me he could not trust me. I told him that if he could not trust me, he could fire me.
▶ 2:10:56Sen. Banks: That's all I got. Iyield back.
▶ 2:11:03Chair Cassidy: Senator hickenlooper.
▶ 2:11:07Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you for being here today and for your service at a time when it is really valuable. Let me ask a rhetorical question secretary kennedy told our colleagues on the finance committee about vaccine access and he said, most americans are going to be able to get it from the pharmacy for free. Everybody can get it. But that's not true, is it?
▶ 2:11:37Dr. Monarez: My mom lives in virginia and she was unable to get it. Supplicant number great. -- Sen. hickenlooper: great. About half of all american kids get free vaccines to the vaccines for children program. This is not at a standstill waiting for guidance from the cdc. States like colorado are trying to lead by issuing separate guidance for their states about vaccine access.
▶ 2:12:06Dr. Monarez: Obviously that is a lot of friction. Confusion. Many insurance plans are for two federal recommendation -- to determine coverage of vaccines and in many families with bills that can range into the hundreds of dollars just for vaccines. Pharmacies across the country from the confusion, they are not sure if they can a minister of the vaccine or even if they have it in stock. I think we have a real problem to navigate that we have got to be able to look at it.
▶ 2:12:38Dr. Monarez: Dr. monarez, during your tenure as cdc director, your short-lived tenure, you try to implement guardrails to reinforce the advisory committee on immunization practices or acip. Given the secretary's actions, do you still agree that we need those dark -- guardrails?
▶ 2:13:01Dr. Monarez: What I was trying to implement is what I had testified here on june 25 as transparency accountability and integrity to the processes and what I had proposed his transparency measure such as in information that was going to be used by the acip in a deliberative manner be made available to the public six weeks in advance of the acip
▶ 2:13:32Dr. Monarez: Meeting to a sufficient time that others would be able to see the information, see the data. I propose perhaps we would have a backing -- a back in transparency period of time where if there was new information that had been introduced --.
▶ 2:14:12Sen. Hickenlooper: I understand why you would have died. Those guardrails would still be needed should something come should work on?
▶ 2:14:18Dr. Monarez: I would highly encourage all of us whether it is congressional action or others to make sure we do have the appropriate transparency and accountability measures. The acip deliberations are critically important and the impact real lives. The more we can do to ensure we are achieving radical transparency, accountability, and evidence-based decision-making, I would highly encourage it.
▶ 2:14:43Dr. Houry: The federal advisory committee act -- I think this is a perfect opportunity for congress to ensure that tvc is following these processes. They are there for a reason to ensure there is transparency, gold standard, science, and the public has the opportunity to engage.
▶ 2:14:59Sen. Hickenlooper: We are talking about trust. Without transparency, are never going to have trust. In terms of pandemic preparedness, Dr. houry, I love seeing where you did your training. Just so we're completely clear.
▶ 2:15:39Sen. Hickenlooper: Your testimony you mentioned the cdc has seen a 60% decrease in flu samples and 70% decrease in covered samples. That is alarming. Striking to me. What is the reduction -- what is that attributed to?
▶ 2:15:51Dr. Houry: A lot of that is withdrawing from the world health organization. Many countries don't view it as the same level of partner. That is something that can be overcome but takes leadership to really proactively reestablish those partnerships so we are not flying blind. We know what pathogens are out there.
▶ 2:16:09Sen. Hickenlooper: What keeps you up at night? What keeps you both up at night?
▶ 2:16:14Dr. Houry: The next outbreak.
▶ 2:16:17Dr. Monarez: The next outbreak and I don't believe we will be prepared.
▶ 2:16:22Dr. Houry: The cdc in our country. If we continue down this path, we are not prepared not just for pandemics but preventing chronic health disease and we are going to see kids dying vaccine preventable diseases.
▶ 2:16:35Chair Cassidy: Senator murray. Senator moody. Sorry.
▶ 2:16:46Sen. Moody: . Thank you for being here. I have to say I am a new senator here so this is all very troubling to me. I'm really shocked and most people come and introduce their families. I am shocked that we have antitrust players you have invited.
▶ 2:17:14Sen. Moody: You introduce someone you brought today? They keep handing you notes and whispering in your ears. I figured you should probably for the record but their names in the record.
▶ 2:17:25Dr. Monarez: Filers have been public associated with me already.
▶ 2:17:31Sen. Moody: So you're refusing to acknowledge the attorneys that are present in this hearing room helping you with your testimony?
▶ 2:17:38Dr. Monarez: The attorneys that I have been --.
▶ 2:17:43Sen. Moody: I've been in the legal world for a long time. Attorneys general are not shy about stating appearances and saying when they are here helping clients. Is there some reason you don't want to introduce the senators to the lawyers that are here? But their names on the record? I mean, they're passing you know so I think it is fair for the record to know who is passing you notes while you're testifying. I really did not mean that trying to be adversarial here.
▶ 2:18:14Sen. Moody: I just think for the record, it is probably good to know who is passing notes and whispering in your ear.
▶ 2:18:18Dr. Monarez: I think my counsel is happy to follow up with you. I was hoping that we would stay focused on the critical issues related --.
▶ 2:18:30Sen. Moody: We are at a hearing because you call the chairman and talked about these issues and the chairman has called a hearing and now you are here testifying and you have attorneys giving you notes and whispering in your ear -- presumably about your testimony. So for the record, who is here with you helping you with your testimony? Look, I'm a judge, a former federal prosecutor, attorney general, lawyer. This is not an abnormal thing.
▶ 2:18:57Dr. Monarez: May attorneys have been publicly associated with me.
▶ 2:19:01Sen. Moody: What attorneys are here with you at this hearing assisting with your testimony and whispering in your ear? Please state their names for the record.
▶ 2:19:10Dr. Monarez: By two attorneys that are in the room would be happy to follow up with you after the discussion.
▶ 2:19:17Sen. Moody: Mr. chairman, I would like to record to reflect that you have called a hearing of two people who have hired anti-trump lawyers -- would you hire them?
▶ 2:19:28Dr. Monarez: I sought their counsel I believe on the day on or before the day I was fired.
▶ 2:19:44Sen. Moody: And is now refusing now that they are in a courtroom and helping with testimony and passing notes and what to say refusing to give their names to those of us that may not know their names. Is our reason you don't want to give their names?
▶ 2:19:58Dr. Monarez: No.
▶ 2:20:02Sen. Moody: Are you afraid it will come unraveled that you have this whole network of people that is trying to embarrass the president or go after the president and now you're joining this group? Why don't you want to give their names?
▶ 2:20:13Dr. Monarez: Their names have been publicly associated. They issued a public remarks early on.
▶ 2:20:20Sen. Moody: Let me ask your colleague. They have also been giving you notes and whispering to you. Will you state their names?
▶ 2:20:26Dr. Houry: Their names are abby lowell and mark zaid.
▶ 2:20:33Sen. Moody: I appreciate it. I really was genuinely asking so that the record was clear. But now I am wondering what else we are trying to hide and I will go back to you. Did you plan to coordinate -- I will go back to the original witness. Did you plan to coordinate this public spectacle surrounding your firing?
▶ 2:20:53Dr. Monarez: No.
▶ 2:20:56Sen. Moody: And have you coordinated with Dr. houry? I apologize if I mispronounced your name. Did you coordinate with her or anyone else that you worked with surrounding you are leaving?
▶ 2:21:13Dr. Monarez: I did not coordinate with anyone surrounding my leaving. I was terminated abruptly.
▶ 2:21:24Sen. Moody: So you had no advanced plan to write an op-ed come into a public hearing? I noticed you medially called our chairman.
▶ 2:21:35Dr. Monarez: I committed during my confirmation process several elements including integrity, transparency, working with congress.
▶ 2:21:46Sen. Moody: But you had no advanced plan with colleagues.
▶ 2:21:48Dr. Monarez: I had no advanced plan.
▶ 2:21:51Sen. Moody: Dr. houry, if there wasn't an c1 agreed to do this altogether? >> once the doctor was being terminated, we were committed to scientific integrity. >> I just want to make a brief comment as my name was invoked.
▶ 2:22:23Sen. Moody: They favorably reported the doctor and cdc director it is entirely appropriate for someone with oversight concerns. Upon receiving outreach, I can't -- contacted the secretary and the white house to inquire what was happening and expressed concerns about what was alleged.
▶ 2:22:46Sen. Moody: The health committee began reviewing the situation as it is our responsibility and any and all communications was conducted by health staff in coordination with attorneys.
▶ 2:23:04Sen. Sanders: I find it astounding anyone is concerned that government heads of agencies talked to the election officials of the united. That's what they are supposed to do. >> this is now senator blunt rochester stern.
▶ 2:23:23Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Thank you for reminding us of our oversight responsibilities. I also want to thank the two witnesses for your strength, integrity, and not staying silent. The fact that you were even finding out important information is not the way we operate, it is not the way we keep our country safe and our public healthy.
▶ 2:23:54Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I want to thank you both. I know you both mentioned as scientists, doctors, parents, that is why you are here. Last week I led an in-depth discussion, creating a lot of confusion in this country. I heard from a pediatrician, a parent, a school nurse, two former members who were fired by secretary kennedy.
▶ 2:24:25Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I'm extremely concerned the secretary has staff to the committee with people committed to his agenda, the concern is the focus shouldn't be on ideology but on evidence. To put them there, secretary kennedy accused former members of being plagued with conflicts of interest and use that as a pretext.
▶ 2:24:50Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Did you ever observe anything passed out on the scientific abilities of those members? >> we posted conflicts of interest of members to embrace what the president had said to dispel the conflicts of interest. We have a rule, I can't speak to now.
▶ 2:25:16Sen. Blunt-Rochester: If you had any sort of bias, you recused yourself from that discussion. If you had significant bias you were included.
▶ 2:25:28Sen. Blunt: Rochester: were you ever privy of any of this? >> I cannot. I cannot speak to as much as the current members. Participated in discussions. >> if there's anything you want to contribute.
▶ 2:25:53Sen. Blunt: I'm trying to understand if there's any reasons that these individuals should not have been 5 -- should have been fired. You could say I don't know. >> the members that were fired after the april meeting I had not interacted with them. I had no preconceived notions. I can't speak to them individually.
▶ 2:26:21Sen. Blunt: When you look at the members, you look at geographic representation. That was the need to fill. You look at it as a whole expertise. The hepatitis b shot keeps coming up. I want to know, is there anything you want to clarify or say more about this?
▶ 2:26:48Sen. Blunt: It is my understanding that before 1991 not all babies were vaccinated. About 20,000 were infected each year. After the cdc recommendations, that dropped by 99 percent. This terribly contagious disease . The reason why we test everybody is because certain moms might not have been tested and don't know.
▶ 2:27:17Sen. Blunt: Is there anything else you want to add? I know this has come up numerous times. >> the information I have with the promise of the vaccine, I do want to touch on one thing. The cdc doesn't force anyone to get vaccinated.
▶ 2:27:40Sen. Blunt: They provide recommendations to allow parents and physicians to make a choice, a decision in the best interest of themselves and their families.
▶ 2:27:54Sen. Blunt-Rochester: You talk a lot about members. Behind the scenes these working groups, the american medical association, the american geriatrics society, the national medical association. It goes on. These were the groups behind the scenes making these recommendations. To your testimony, they were pulled back, is that correct?
▶ 2:28:28Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Is that accurate? >> we have experts whether it is from societies or specific expertise that are very much needed. They help with implementation. We say talk to your doctor.
▶ 2:28:42Sen. Blunt-Rochester: As a grandmother and mom I want to say thank you for the work that you do. These are unsung heroes. People behind the scenes. Just like those employees that were fired and remain. Thank you, I yield back. >> thank you both for being here to testify this afternoon.
▶ 2:29:12Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I think it was you who made the comment in your testimony that this is about the future of the trust in public health. I really feel that is where we are today. I don't want to call it he said, she said back and forth, there has been a lot that folks have tried to drill down.
▶ 2:29:41Sen. Blunt-Rochester: You also made the point that this is not about you. It is about trust in our public health institutions. That is what I am merit -- worried most about. I don't know you other than the few times we had an opportunity to visit.
▶ 2:30:04Sen. Blunt-Rochester: I'm sure you are both working hard, doing good things for others. Really this is about trust in our institutions. This is where I feel we are really vulnerable right now. We have all been back and forth. I don't want to try to ask any of the same questions that have been asked.
▶ 2:30:35Sen. Blunt-Rochester: We have a structure within this cdc that is your career public health officials. They provide the institutional knowledge, the expertise, and very often continuity between the administrations. You had worked six different administrations.
▶ 2:30:58Sen. Blunt-Rochester: You provide some level of continuity, that ridge between the political leadership and the agencies scientific mission. Correct me if I'm wrong, you seek to ensure the decisions are grounded in expertise while also meeting the goals of the administration.
▶ 2:31:22Sen. Blunt-Rochester: When you said yes to president trump, you are also signing on to the goals of the administration here. I am concerned that when career scientists are excluded, may be completely excluded from the director's office, who does then provide the scientific
▶ 2:31:55Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Expertise, this institutional memory that is needed to guide the agencies? I think we have heard from both of you that there was very little interaction. I think you have also testified that those who would ordinarily brief the secretary have not been present.
▶ 2:32:18Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Also to the point that was just made about the work groups other than the covid working group were assigned to this, is that correct? What happens to this scientific mission when there are no career public health professionals in those positions to rely on a policy to protect the scientific integrity and ensure some level of operations when you are
▶ 2:32:48Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Moving through a transition like this? >> I think continuity is important. I was selected to be the transition for the agency. That was my goal. I was the last career left in the office of the director. >> may I stop you there?
▶ 2:33:18Sen. Blunt-Rochester: Are you saying that everyone is remaining is a political? >> yes. >> there must be somebody that is providing that career science. >> 80% are now acting because they have been fired, resigned, or retired. >> were you ever directed to not speak to career officials?
▶ 2:33:53Sen. Blunt-Rochester: What were you directed to not speak to career officials? >> that transpired over the course of august 25. I was directed to only work with the political appointees that he had put in place at cdc and not speak or work with career scientists. >> my time has expired. I will turn to senator king.
▶ 2:34:21Sen. King: Thanks for our witnesses for being here today. I owe you an apology. I questioned you very significantly, you got over the qualifications far easily. A trait that is not in supplied in this town.
▶ 2:34:50Sen. King: When I voted against your confirmation I cited as reasonably known confirmation. I apologize to you. It is important when you are wrong to admit you are wrong. I'm not sure I heard it correctly. Were you instructed by the secretary of hhs to not speak to senator? >> I was instructed to speak not directly with senators.
▶ 2:35:20Sen. King: That was over the course of several with the secretary that day. >> confirmed cdc director, we use to speak with the cdc director all of the time instructed not to speak to senators, is my memory right? Didn't secretary kennedy say he's about radical transparency? >> that is one of the areas.
▶ 2:35:52Sen. King: >> directing her not to speak to those who have confirmed her and to who she is responsible for oversight is a very serious manner. I want to really get into the minutia about measles. 1454 cases in the U.S., four in virginia. School-age child, early september.
▶ 2:36:23Sen. King: Measles is really contagious, spreads through the air. You could contract it two hours after somebody has gone through it. You often don't show symptoms for days. Our virginia department of health had to find potential exposure.
▶ 2:36:46Sen. King: The child, while infected before demonstrating symptoms attended school for one day and visited multiple health care facilities. In one day, 1000 virginians were exposed to measles. They contract traced 1000 people followed up with 800 people including babies too young to be vaccinated had repeated contacts to make sure they weren't showing symptoms.
▶ 2:37:17Sen. King: They had dozens of staff, about 50 working on this issue. They had work to notify over 1000 people. 45-50 officials had to work. I'm very proud of the work. I'm sharing the background.
▶ 2:37:42Sen. King: The infectious disease society of america says the median cost is $32,000. Multiply that by 1400 cases this year, 46 million dollars this year to respond to measles. If the price increases as you are trying to contract this. The median price to contract trace is $32.
▶ 2:38:13Sen. King: Just to contract trace 1000 people. I bring this up because to make it even harder for states to respond, secretary kennedy resend an $.4 billion in public health funding. The department of health lost $425 million during the worst measles spread we have seen in recent years.
▶ 2:38:40Sen. King: The money was being used to modernize technology to upgrade the states epidemiology labs. 500 employees and contractors in virginia have been laid off because of these cuts. Did you ever brief secretary kennedy about measles outbreaks? >> we did not. >> did you speak with any nhs or ccs political staff?
▶ 2:39:08Sen. King: >> the cdc political staff, absolutely. Our team did. The chief of staff and communications about measles. That is my concern, 80% of funding goes out to state and local communities. You will see that too and the boots on the ground work you did is exactly the hard work of public health. Thank you, I yield back.
▶ 2:39:37Sen. King: >> thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time coming before this committee again. I like to go over certain time frames. Who fired you? >> I believe the president fired me. >> do you serve at the will of the president?
▶ 2:40:01Sen. King: >> the president's removal powers is necessary to ensure the executive branch officials are aligned with the administration's policy. This means the president could remove them at any time for any reason. Do you agree? >> I would. >> what they were you fired? >> I believe I was fired on august 27. >> what day it was the first time you seek counsel? >> I don't recall.
▶ 2:40:35Sen. King: >> we could get those records. I think you might have an honesty issue. What they was it that you spoke to the attorneys the first time? >> it was on or before the day I was fired. >> when did you speak to them? >> you retained them the first time you spoke to them?
▶ 2:41:02Sen. King: >> I believe I retained them the first time I spoke. >> where you left on the middle of the night or the middle of the day? I know the answer to this so let's be honest. >> I believe I received an email from the white house indicating that my services were no longer needed. >> what time was that? >> sometime in the evening.
▶ 2:41:31Sen. King: >> you got a hold of the attorneys late at night? After business hours to retain them? >> I don't recall. >> I think you do. You don't recall retaining your attorneys? >> I don't recall the specific time or day. >> I think you have an honesty issue. It was not that long ago.
▶ 2:42:00Sen. King: I could recall when I hired an attorney. What did you remove the political appointees from the floor you work on? >> again, I moved some political appointees in. I put my senior advisors together. >> when did you remove them and remove your access and you had the conversation with the secretary about this? How many days into your job?
▶ 2:42:30Sen. King: >> I don't even know what you are asking. >> you already talked about political appointees. You remove the political appointees when you first got to your work. When did you take away their ability to access this? You know exactly what I'm talking about. >> you are missed contextualizing. >> I'm asking the question.
▶ 2:42:59Sen. King: >> I have one political chief of staff. I have three political chiefs of staff. I had space made for all of them. >> when did you remove them I was prior to you getting there. This is not hard. You are talking circles. You know. >> I had the security of my sweet.
▶ 2:43:28Sen. King: >> your conversation with the secretary you said that he said he did not trust you. Is that really how that conversation went because there was other people in the room. Your answer was? >> it was a recorded meeting.
▶ 2:43:57Sen. King: You could testify one way and we could prove you are lying or you could be honest with the committee. I'm giving you the opportunity to be honest. You have been walking around the edges and not being truthful. Did he ask you the question can he trust you and your answer was? >> told me he could not trust me .
▶ 2:44:26Sen. King: I told him if he could not trust me he could fire me. >> that is and how that conversation went. -- is not how that conversation went. You know that, don't you? >> he told me he could not trust me. I told him if he could not trust me, he could fire me. >> all we are looking for is you to be honest. You are not being honest with the conversation, the timeline.
▶ 2:44:58Sen. King: All we are looking for is you to be honest. We will have a hearing. Let's make sure we talk to someone we could trust. I told my kids all the time, one thing I want from you, we could deal with any situation as long as I know you are being 100% honest. The minute I cannot, I cannot trust you. From then on everything you say is questioned.
▶ 2:45:27Sen. King: Your personality and answers aren't correct. >> I want to thank you for being public health heroes. When you took your oppositions you swore an oath to public health not to political ideology. You kept that promise to the american people.
▶ 2:45:57Sen. King: When confronted with pressure you chose real science. You said clearly that vaccines work, that they are safe, that our children and most vulnerable deserve the lifesaving protections vaccines have provided for generations. Robert f. Kennedy, jr. May put the con in conscience but he put the science and conscious.
▶ 2:46:25Sen. King: Which is where belongs at the cdc. It is my help that more officials throughout this administration looked to what you have done and that they feel inspired by what you have done. In the face of political pressure and threats and conspiracy theories, you are standing up for science, facts, the protections.
▶ 2:46:56Sen. King: You are standing up for what is right. I hope your colleagues follow you. Before the hepatitis vaccine was proven, upwards of 300,000 americans were affected each year including 20,000 children.
▶ 2:47:29Sen. King: Annual cases are down from 20,000, that is a stunning public health success. We achieved that because every newborn gets the shot. Why? Infants at birth become chronically infected. This week, the advisory committee, a panel newly filled with sickly robert terry at -- secretary robert f. Kennedy, jr.
▶ 2:48:01Sen. King: , individuals with no vaccine or public health expertise on delaying that birth dose of the hepatitis b vaccine. This would reverse decades of progress. Put kids in harm's way and make countless children victims.
▶ 2:48:21Sen. King: Do you believe a change to that recommendation at the advisory committee meeting this week would be based on an objective comprehensive review of data >> if the vote is to change, then it would not be based on data. >> I haven't seen any data that suggest that would be the appropriate thing to do.
▶ 2:48:48Sen. King: >> based on your interactions, are secretary kennedy's beliefs driving the change to vaccine recommendations including hepatitis b vaccine's? >> that is the concern. >> I believe it is.
▶ 2:49:12Sen. King: Suggesting we look at hepatitis b, I think that is where I'm thankful to senator cassidy for raising hepatitis b awareness. I hope they consider this recommendation. >> I would want them to keep it at birth. There's a lot of moms that don't know they have hepatitis that could transmit it.
▶ 2:49:40Sen. King: Even if the mom is hepatitis b negative, we don't know what the situation is. >> I'm not aware of any requests to myself. I would defer to the doctor as well. >> we directed our staff to provide data.
▶ 2:50:06Sen. King: We thought it was important that cdc staff provide data to discussions. >> is that traditional practice? >> traditionally it is more group that developed it. We had a case where our experts develop this and we were asked by the secretary's office to remove that document.
▶ 2:50:31Sen. King: >> the universal birth dose based on a thorough competent review. >> if we reconsider recommendations we need to look at the updated evidence. That is what the committee should do. >> that evidence that you have seen, is it conclusive to change? >> I haven't seen any of the updated evidence.
▶ 2:50:59Sen. King: >> the concern is robert after the is going to make america sicker again. More disease, more death, and more despair. You are health care heroes for our nation. Thank you. >> I ask unanimous consent to enter two letters. >> without objection. >> thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:51:32Sen. King: I want to get right into this. I share the concern of many of my colleagues about the failure of our public health establishment. I think that has had lasting harm on america's children. We talk about this issue of trust in the cdc based on my experience as lieutenant governor.
▶ 2:51:59Sen. King: During that time I know elected officials, community leaders turned to the cdc for a clear science-based guidance. Managing a father of school-age children I experienced firsthand I experience that guidance. We were hoping it was going to be based on the science.
▶ 2:52:29Sen. King: We know now that the guidance was based on politics and special interest instead of safeguarding children's health. I want to give a few facts on how trust has been eroded. The cdc has 12 senators.
▶ 2:52:56Sen. King: I think it has drifted from its original mission. It cost students years of academic progress. The american federation for teachers got access. It triggers the prolonged closures. It is not science, it is politics.
▶ 2:53:23Sen. King: The consequences of these spread school closures were very measurable. The wall street journal reporting math and science scores fell to the lowest level since testing began. The new york times confirmed students in districts with closures felt as much as half a grade behind in math.
▶ 2:53:47Sen. King: The hoover institute projects the loss will reduce lifetime earnings of 5%-6% costing the nation an amazing 31 trillion dollars in economic growth. The damage went beyond academics.
▶ 2:54:06Sen. King: The committee reported suicide attempts by girls age 12-17 rose 12% with confusing policies taking a heavy toll on children's mental health. Even the cdc's universal masking guidance lacked evidence. It went back and forth and showed no significant difference in the race between schools with or without masks.
▶ 2:54:34Sen. King: The special interests which has excepted private donations including thousands of contributions with platforms like act blue. The agency is left to police itself further undermining public confidence. We talked a lot about that. It bows to politics. We must demand accountability.
▶ 2:55:05Sen. King: We must restore the cdc's mission on evidence and not ideology. Whether that is with pandemics or vaccines. I hope there is nothing in that statement that you disagree with. I think we are pretty much aligned on that in those conversations.
▶ 2:55:31Sen. King: I know that with all of this guidance there is the simple questions for parents with healthy school-age children, are they endangering the lives that they don't get the vaccine for covid? >> this is where a parent needs to have the ability to talk with their pediatrician and make sure it's in the best decision of the parent and the child that this vaccine is the benefits and risks are well understood by the parent.
▶ 2:56:00Sen. King: >> without applied to every vaccine? >> the cdc doesn't make mandates, and makes recommendations. >> not whether it was recommended, would they be endangering the lives of their children?
▶ 2:56:19Sen. King: >> the vaccines that have been proven safe and effective, if their child is exposed like the measles or they have not been vaccinated and they have no natural immunity, it would cause dangerous consequences. >> this is where I think we are getting it wrong. They are endangering the lives of children. Maybe a recommendation.
▶ 2:56:51Sen. King: There would be good reasons for doing it. We should not scare people saying that we are endangering lives. I hear that all the time. It is an overstatement. We have to start leveling with people about what the truth is. >> we have to have productive conversations to allow them to understand the benefits and risks associated with these vaccines. >> thank you.
▶ 2:57:19Sen. King: The irony of this is when I talk with you, you say this, secretary kennedy says this, we have to get this figured out. >> I was at a vote. I understand there is a recording of the meeting or meetings between the doctor and secretary kennedy. I will note that materials have been provided and invoked official committee business.
▶ 2:57:46Sen. King: Their record and all other senators on the committee have the right to see those records. I will also note if hhs has a recording I ask them to release the recording. Releasing the recording with radical transparency, this is about fulfilling the president's vision of radical transparency.
▶ 2:58:16Sen. King: I ask that this recording be released. I will also note we put in a request for any documents or communications that would bring transparency to the situation. We have not yet received those documents. I asked him to retract his line of questions.
▶ 2:58:38Sen. King: I will also note that I'm curious why only one senator was given this and why we are just hearing about it now and why didn't the secretary share it at the senate finance committee? >> that is the point I wanted to make, how does that happen if it is true that one senator has access to an alleged tape recording of a meeting?
▶ 2:59:07Sen. King: This is what we are dealing with right now. This is a very politicized situation. Thanks.
▶ 2:59:18Sen. Kim: I wanted to start with you, you were talking about how you were directed to fire career officials. I wanted to ask you, what was the plan, who would have replaced them?
▶ 2:59:36Sen. Kim: >> part of what the secretary told me in the discussion was the sequencing of firing the leadership and promoting deputies. If the deputies did not do what we wanted, I need to fire them and continue to do so until I got to an organization that was compliant with my demands.
▶ 3:00:04Sen. Kim: >> the plan was to keep firing until there was somebody in that position that was willing to go along with what secretary kennedy was asking? >> that is what was communicated to me. >> are you aware this type of order is given to other parts of hhs, any other parts?
▶ 3:00:28Sen. Kim: >> he had said although I have no means to verify that they were engaging in this practice. >> I think we are raising concerns about what is happening with regards to the cdc and sharing potential allegations that this type of action is taking parts in other parts of hhs.
▶ 3:00:58Sen. Kim: You said something in your testimony that caught my attention. You said something to the effect that the staff had to approve of policies and personnel decisions you were trying to make, is that correct? >> that is the email that has now been made available through the washington post.
▶ 3:01:19Sen. Kim: >> when you talk with secretary kennedy, he also talked about him ordering you to pre-approve made by the acip. When kennedy was asked he said I did not say that to her. I never had a private meeting with her. I'm just asking you, who else was in these meetings?
▶ 3:01:45Sen. Kim: >> the meeting where that was were stated included five other participants in addition to the secretary including the deputy, deputy secretary, chief of staff. >> could we please give names?
▶ 3:02:05Sen. Kim: >> jim o'neill, chief of staff matt buckham, stephanie spear, a member of the general counsel staff, a member of his council staff, ken callahan.
▶ 3:02:25Sen. Kim: What stands out as if he's not listening to you, the cdc career staff and experts, who is secretary kennedy listening to about these decisions that are before us and not only the idea of listening but both of you have addressed this in so many different ways, you talked about how when you were talking to the secretary, he was telling you the vaccine schedule will change in
▶ 3:02:57Sen. Kim: September, is that roughly right? >> that is correct.
▶ 3:03:01Sen. Kim: You've talked about this in so many ways, the phrasing was you said it was about predecided outcomes. Is that correct? Is that what you were worried about? >> yes.
▶ 3:03:20Sen. Kim: We are seeing this over and over again. There is already a decision made. Now we are trying to figure out how to twist the data to be able to meet that asser tatian, is that correct? >> it is. President trump issued the order on gold science. You should have data that you could replicate. We were put in positions where I am concerned.
▶ 3:03:51Sen. Kim: David geyer who the secretary testified was a contractor, I had the deputy policy chief of staff tom and meet myself and the other three leaders, two days and asked us to grant access to a data that has privacy and security concerns.
▶ 3:04:20Sen. Kim: >> in terms of how they talked about this, a lot of concerns. Thank you, I yield back. >> it has just been reported that senator mullin told reporters he was mistaken in saying the meeting was recorded. In case he's mistaken, if there is a recording, it should be released.
▶ 3:04:50Sen. Kim: It begs the question of what other conversations were recorded. We have sent a request to hhs for records related to these instances. It would help the committee that on both sides has found itself scratching his head. With that, I go to senator alsobrooks.
▶ 3:05:16Sen. Barrasso: Brooks I thank you for being here today. This is a charged political environment. I want to thank you for your courage and commitment to the truth. It has been mentioned there was an honesty problem.
▶ 3:05:38Sen. Barrasso: Secretary kennedy in this very room said that he would not fire scientists or career scientists and he lied when he said that. I want to question first Dr. monarez. You have described in the meeting as animated.
▶ 3:06:02Sen. Barrasso: I want to ask you whether secretary kennedy, what rationale did he give you for firing career scientists, what did he say the rationale would be? >> that was a series of events where he articulated his concerns related to the cdc and career scientists were part of the move of one of the most corrupt agencies in the history of the world and a number of different items.
▶ 3:06:34Sen. Barrasso: They were bought by the pharmaceutical industry. There was a number of different items that he offered related to why those scientists should be fired.
▶ 3:06:48Sen. Barrasso: Brooks did he also indicate that there were other agencies to carry out similar directives to fire scientists and senior officials? >> he didn't use the word scientists or senior officials.
▶ 3:07:07Sen. Barrasso: He did say that other organizations were engaging in a similar practice of turning over leadership and getting to an organization that would be aligned with his priorities. >> substituting scientists with those who would rubberstamp his opinions?
▶ 3:07:34Sen. Barrasso: >> those who would be aligned with his administrative priorities.
▶ 3:07:41Sen. Barrasso: Brooks how did he tell you how you should report yourself with staff and more specifically his allies, what did he tell you about that? >> he said I needed to listen to them and support them with everything they needed and I did not need to engage with any of the career scientists. >> where were you immediately prior to this meeting? >> to this meeting here today?
▶ 3:08:15Sen. Barrasso: >> the meeting on the 25th. >> I was in atlanta doing a number of activities to make sure I could help them with the healing process. >> I want to ask you very quickly. At 5:00 p.m.
▶ 3:08:35Sen. Barrasso: On august 8, a gunman opened fire forcing thousands on the campus to lock down, did you receive a call from the secretary upon the first report that an active shooter had shot at employees? >> I did not speak to the secretary on the eighth or any successful day I did not speak until august 11.
▶ 3:09:02Sen. Barrasso: >> are you telling me the secretary of health and human services failed to give you a courtesy call that employees there had been shot at? >> he did not call. >> do you believe secretary kennedy is incompetent and dangerous to the american people's health? >> I always believe in optimism and hope. I would say that was my hope.
▶ 3:09:36Sen. Barrasso: I was prepared to welcome him. After seeing a number of misstatements of what he asked our scientists to do with the children who had died under his watch, I think he should resign. >> you said you agreed with the president that vaccines are not controversial because they work.
▶ 3:10:03Sen. Barrasso: I would like you to take the last few seconds I have two talk to parents, my greatest concern would be confused parents who have kids going to kindergarten, going to daycare, what do they say and what should they do regarding vaccines? >> vaccines are safe, they are lifesaving.
▶ 3:10:26Sen. Barrasso: I would encourage any parent who is concerned about whether or not their child should get a vaccine to talk to their pediatrician to understand the benefits of these lifesaving medical products and to make the best decision they can to make sure children remain happy and healthy and could go to school. >> thank you for your integrity and being here today.
▶ 3:10:52Sen. Barrasso: >> I would not request unanimous consent to submit article for the record. The doctor told us that secretary kennedy urged her to speak to aaron seary. The title is anti-vaccine groups on another windfall last year records show.
▶ 3:11:20Sen. Barrasso: He points out that $6 million was played -- paid to a law firm. $20 million. Secretary kennedy has been an advisor to this law firm in the past. I had a couple of questions.
▶ 3:11:40Sen. Barrasso: You said stuart burns said the cdc's systematic review on hepatitis b was biased, did he share any alternative evidence to support his views?
▶ 3:11:58Sen. Barrasso: >> we had not developed systematically at that time he suggested 70 additional papers including some that were in french and indian. >> that were what? >> they were in other languages. I explained as did the acting senator that we have a systematic progress.
▶ 3:12:27Sen. Barrasso: The library was pulling the evidence and we could not speak to the data, questions provide answers. Did you have to pull that? What happened with the review you did? >> I don't know if it was completed because I left three weeks ago. He did not do a review of hepatitis b.
▶ 3:12:59Sen. Barrasso: I don't know if they were included. If they had valid methods, they would be. >> are they representing the secretary's viewpoint? >> I believe he was. He had said the secretary wanted those moved. >> I'm sorry, my alarm is going off.
▶ 3:13:30Sen. Barrasso: As I close, I'm going to speak as a point of personal privilege to address the meeting scheduled for tomorrow. As it turns out I am a hepatology is. I have published papers on liver disease. That was my practice of how do you treat the patients?
▶ 3:13:59Sen. Barrasso: We have heard allegations that will need to be addressed. I don't know if you are telling the truth or not. When secretary kennedy comes I am keeping an open mind. I think the two of you for taking the risk to your personal life to come today.
▶ 3:14:29Sen. Barrasso: Anything less than radical transparency betrays the trust the american people give to us and betrays the mandate the president has delivered. One thing that will be discussed at the upcoming meeting is any recommendation for the dose of the hepatitis vaccine. More than 90% of infants, let me start over.
▶ 3:14:56Sen. Barrasso: For those who say why should a child be vaccinated for a sexually transmitted disease at birth, the child passes through the birth canal and is exposed to the same as they would otherwise. The passage makes that child vulnerable to the virus being transmitted. Hepatitis b this happens.
▶ 3:15:22Sen. Barrasso: If the child is infected at birth more than 90% develop chronic lifelong infection. We will talk about the consequences of that in a second. As many as 20,000 babies were infected with hepatitis b in the united states. That changed when the hepatitis b vaccine was improved. This doesn't mandate or say you can't leave the hospital.
▶ 3:15:52Sen. Barrasso: It just as if the mother accepts the insurance company has to pay. It is not mandated. Not if you think it is a good idea. In the decade following approval , newborn infection reduced by 68%.
▶ 3:16:17Sen. Barrasso: Now fewer than 20 babies per year get hepatitis b from their mother. That is an accomplishment to make america healthy again. We should stand up and salute the people who made that decision. Because those people would otherwise be dead if those mothers were not given that option to have their child vaccinated. There are some of you say it has never been seen so it cannot exist.
▶ 3:16:46Sen. Barrasso: I want to submit a link in which Dr. james long shares his personal information. He was infected at birth. He developed cirrhosis. He almost died. Because of modern medicine, the hepatitis b virus is controlled but he has to be screened regularly and live the specter of getting liver cancer because he got cirrhosis when he was infected as a baby. It does occur but less often.
▶ 3:17:17Sen. Barrasso: We have controlled it. If the recommendation goes away and a parent wants the vaccine, insurance will no longer cover it free of charge and will be forced to pay out-of-pocket. This brings us to the conclusion. Any senator wishing to ask additional questions, questions
▶ 3:17:44Will Be Due At Five : 00 p.m. Wednesday, october 1. Thank you for the witnesses. Thank you for the audience, you were very respectful. The committee stands adjourned.