▶ 0:19:14Chair Grassley: Good morning. On today's agenda we have 17 nominations listed. We will vote on 11 of them. We vote on rebecca taibleson, circuit judge, david dra circuit judge, david dr bragdon, lindsey ann freeman, matthew orso, susan courtwright
▶ 0:19:46Chair Grassley: Rodriguez, to be district judges in north carolina. We will vote on sam liccardo to be director of national drug control policy -- sara carter to be director of national drug control policy, and nine for U.S. attorney. Each of these is well-qualified and I look forward to supporting each of them. We will hold over the remaining nominees.
▶ 0:20:18Chair Grassley: Before we go to our agenda, I want to address the search of clinical violence-- surge of political violence and domestic terrorism from predominantly left-wing groups. In recent weeks our country is between apartment members tragedies-one apart --our country has been torn apart by numerous tragedies, charlie kirk assassination, a vehicle attacking federal law enforcement officers in chicago, the threatened bombing of a
▶ 0:20:49Chair Grassley: Catholic mass here in D.C., the murder of the former minnesota speaker of the minnesota house. These are a few of many instances of political violence, and although we don't know all the details surrounding each event, it is obviously our country is facing a crisis. Violent crime to violent crime should be met with equally strong response.
▶ 0:21:22Chair Grassley: Instead we have seen judges and politicians place criminals ahead of victims. Just last week we had a fight in -- biden-appointed judge give a lenient sentence to a man who attempted to murder justice kavanaugh and other members of the supreme court for their decision in dobbs. So what kind of a message does this send?
▶ 0:21:45Chair Grassley: I hope we can all agree on this committee and people that are not on the committee that we have to send precisely give this the proper attention -- sent precisely the wrong message when we don't give this the proper attention and speak out against this sort of extremist activity by political leaders.
▶ 0:22:10Chair Grassley: Now we've seen horrific text messages promoting murder of republicans, their children, police officers, the candidate for attorney general. This is an obscene thing to be talking about. Every elected official should be willing to stand up to it.
▶ 0:22:33Chair Grassley: It is unacceptable for the state's chief law enforcement officer to encourage it and condone that sort of violence. I will go to our oversight hearing. We have repeatedly heard from democrats that the current doj has diverted resources away from crime to immigration. I want to speak why that isn't true.
▶ 0:22:59Chair Grassley: As general bondi testified, law enforcement has assisted homeland security and taking thousands of criminal aliens across the street. Of course they are going to be less prosecutions when you're taking criminals off the streets and deporting them. It just proves how effective this administration has been in securing the border and country.
▶ 0:23:32Chair Grassley: With regard to diverting resources, we never heard a peep from the other side when the biden fbi used a special operation group, a unit supposed to do with terrorists, to surveilled and arrest peter navarro.
▶ 0:23:51Chair Grassley: At the hearing I spoke about the biden fbi targeting 8 republicans senators' personal cell phones, including senators on this very committee. It was part of arctic frost, a politically weaponized investigation. The fbi told us many of the records associated with this matter are hidden behind grand jury secrecy rules.
▶ 0:24:20Chair Grassley: Attorney general bondi must take immediate steps to seek a waiver and pursue those records. I urge my democratic colleagues to join us in further uncovering this unconscionable breach of the previous administration and hold accountable those involved in the wrongdoing.
▶ 0:24:43Chair Grassley: I also want to address a request for the committee to hold oversight hearings on arctic frost and jack smith. We are not ready to do that. We have yet to receive enough records from the justice department. I requested records, but the department hasn't come through with the volume needed before public hearings, the foundation needs to be set, and strong.
▶ 0:25:13Chair Grassley: And I want to remind the justice department that this excuse they use on client privilege doesn't apply to congress. I don't want to receive a bunch of redacted information. I want the truth and nothing but the truth so we can be prepared for whatever follows on.
▶ 0:25:40Chair Grassley: Rest assured this investigation is yielding results thanks to whistleblowers. I have done four public document productions about arctic frost, starting with the information that has been made public, it has exposed historic political misconduct.
▶ 0:26:02Chair Grassley: As a result, the fbi is investigating his fired agents for misconduct in the cr-15 unit in the washington field office, which originated arctic frost, has been shut down by this administration. So there has already been accountability because of director patel, and I would expect more to come.
▶ 0:26:28Chair Grassley: Once we get information from the fbi, it seems to get lost in the bureaucracy of doj. And I want that red tape cut so we can get this information, make it public.
▶ 0:26:44Sen. Durbin: Thank you, chairman grassley. This week in my home state of illinois president trump deployed at the texas national guard over the objection of our governor. To my republican colleagues, how would you react if a democratic president deployed the national guard from any state into your state over the objections of your governor? Imagine mask border patrol agents and military tactical gear marching through your state's largest city.
▶ 0:27:16Sen. Durbin: As a top border patrol official bragged, the agents were arresting people based on how they looked. Imagine if federal agents wrap held -- rapelled from blackhawk helicopters to swarm an apartment building in your state, connecting people out of bed, zipper tying and detaining U.S.
▶ 0:27:40Sen. Durbin: Citizens, your constituents, including children , including american citizens. Imagine if federal agents pointed and assault rifle at one of your constituents simply taking a picture, if they fired pepper balls at a minister preying on the street and a reporter driving past protest site doing her job.
▶ 0:28:04Sen. Durbin: Imagine if they tear gassed not just peaceful protesters for community, but local law enforcement. This is the reality in my home state of illinois at this moment. I don't believe a single one of us finds it tolerable to consider the conduct of this administration toward my state.
▶ 0:28:24Sen. Durbin: Let me be clear, what is happening in my state of illinois is unprecedented, unnecessary, and an unlawful abuse of power that should offend all of us. Oh, there goes that democratic senator again, he must hate donald trump. There was a press conference before the national guard arrived called by the business leaders in my state condemning the delegation of the guard to illinois.
▶ 0:28:53Sen. Durbin: By deploying the national guard to my state, president trump has disregarded our constitutional system of federalism embodied in the 10th amendment, which reserves powers to the state that are not expressly delegated to the federal government. It used to be a common question from the republican side. Now radio silence. Chicago does not need "to be saved" as kash patel claimed in a tweet yesterday.
▶ 0:29:25Sen. Durbin: We need the government to stop engaging in political theater and closely escalating the situation and -- recklessly escalating the situation in illinois. According to us one statement by thomas mills, police chief in broadview, illinois, dhs agents told the broadview police that dhs would bring -- excuse me for saying it -- a shitshow broadview, including use of tear-gassing pepper spray.
▶ 0:29:51Sen. Durbin: Chief mills said, "over the course of my curtain law enforcement, the way in which federal agents have indiscriminately used chemical agents in broadview is unlike anything I've seen before." this committee claims to support the bullies. Where is our concern for police officers in my state who are being tear gassed and prevented from protecting the communities they serve? I want to address another issue, a hearing with the attorney general.
▶ 0:30:22Sen. Durbin: This week I asked the attorney general a simple question, what is the legal basis for the deployment of the national guard in illinois? Think that question was lying? She did she launched baseless personal attacks on me. She said. I hated donald trump, asking what the legal basis was for sending national guard troops to my state.
▶ 0:30:52Sen. Durbin: She suggested I was influenced by donations from a friend of jeffrey epstein, reid hoffman. She used his name. Well, I checked my staff records. I've never received a dime for Mr. hoffman, I have no idea who he is. It was a talking point to avoid answering the question. The attorney general's stonewalling in response to the was basic oversight questions was not limited to me.
▶ 0:31:20Sen. Durbin: Instead of answering, she responded to legitimate questions with prepared attacks and smears of other democratic senators. None of my republican colleagues would ever accept such contempt from the democratic administration. As I said and say again, I have been a member of this committee for more than 20 years.
▶ 0:31:44Sen. Durbin: Never, never have I encountered a witness from any administration, democrat or republican, responding to legitimate questions with these types of personal attacks. This administration is currently over the separation of powers. Do we hear anything from the other side of the dais? We cannot allow the disrespect from the attorney general to continue. Let me say on a personal note, too, it was my honor to be the chairman of this committee for four years.
▶ 0:32:14Sen. Durbin: I tried to be fair. There were a couple of times thinktw times thi things broke down. Two-hoyur broke down on a couple of situations. I say to the newer members of the committee, I hope you hear me when I say this, the five-minute standard is a good one, and chairman grassley is trying to impose it as I did, too.
▶ 0:32:41Sen. Durbin: My standard approach was to give people five minutes, tap gavel, and at six minutes vocally interrupted them. That is the way I worked, at six minutes, and if they were in the middle of a question, I'd let them finish. That is not unreasonable. I think it is fair. I hope you consider the same standard when you preside. Chairman grassley, I urge you to work with us to press this administration to provide substantive answers to our legitimate oversight questions.
▶ 0:33:12Sen. Durbin: Otherwise, why are we here? I did that for you and your republican colleagues when I was sure and I hope you will do the same.
▶ 0:33:20Chair Grassley: Let me explain something before. You're going to lose a quorom at 11:05. I worked with the democrats that they will give their speeches afterwards. And they've accommodated me so we can get as many of these nominees out as possible. If people want to speak about the nominees, I suppose we should do that, but I hope other things -- >> I just want to correct the record real quickly.
▶ 0:33:53Chair Grassley: The ranking member manchin to this is unprecedented. It is not. President eisenhower sent the 101st airborne national guard to make sure black kids could go to school with white kids in arkansas when another democrat governor was defying federal law. I would hope that jb pritzker would care as much about our security and the citizens of chicago as he does about hating trump. It is not unprecedented. When you are defying federal law, the president has certain authorities, and the ranking number knows that.
▶ 0:34:23Sen. Durbin: I think if we don't tone down our rhetoric and all involved to the same, we are never going to end this spiral of hate that is taking part in american politics could to come before the committee and say that the violence, political violence is all on one side, as you said, bs, I disagree with you.
▶ 0:34:46Sen. Durbin: >> since you asked, we are going to have a report look at to have a report look a -- an attack attorney general bondi to look at that, left-wing violence. This is not about something.
▶ 0:35:03Sen. Durbin: We should look at all violence -- >> I agree with that, but let's not lie about what is happening.
▶ 0:35:10Chair Grassley: You heard what I said. Can we go to voting now? Ok. [indiscernible]
▶ 0:35:24Sen. Whitehouse: I think you can hear me. I wanted to be recognized on the seventh circuit nominee and hear from the chairman that other comments we have offered you the courtesy of postponing until after the votes and that the committee will remain open so we can make a comments at that time .
▶ 0:35:45Chair Grassley: Speak on the judge you want to speak on.
▶ 0:35:48Sen. Whitehouse: And the other part is correct as well? >> go ahead.
▶ 0:35:56Sen. Whitehouse: Just on the seventh circuit nominee, we are in a downward spiral in this committee, it seems to me, in which the republican majority, when you have the majority, takes liberties with the traditional norms and procedures of the committee and then when
▶ 0:36:29Sen. Whitehouse: The shoe was on the other foot and we follow the new rule established by the republicans, there is outrage that we have done this. I say this in the context of this committee unilaterally yielding to the executive branch power circuit court blue slip. The seventh circuit judge is coming without a blue slip from one of the wisconsin senators.
▶ 0:37:05Sen. Whitehouse: We have seats on circuit courts that are associated with our states and customarily for years, for decades, senators had the ability to make recommendations to the president on those circuit court nominees. The republican majority decided to end that. When we follow don, we -- when we followed on, we heard bitter projections from republican senators when we took the same step.
▶ 0:37:34Sen. Whitehouse: So now we are back again and we have the seventh circuit nominee associated with the state of wisconsin, with the wisconsin senator being completely rolled in that matter. This is one of many instances of the degradation of this committee.
▶ 0:37:49Sen. Whitehouse: But I think just as a general proposition, senators are handing back to the executive branch power is a significant as a blue slip on a circuit court nominee, and with respect to the recent delaware nominee, there is no longer even necessarily a real connection to the state, let alone an approval by the state senator, to meet makes no sense that we as a body would throw that power away.
▶ 0:38:18Sen. Whitehouse: And I make this point now on this person because sooner or later, the winds will shift and the gavel will shift, and I want to make it loud and clear that if you really want to go back to a time when senators' input is respected on circuit court nominees at the white house, this makes that nearly impossible.
▶ 0:38:47Sen. Blackburn: Mr. chairman. I would like to respond to that.
▶ 0:38:55Chair Grassley: You will get your chance.
▶ 0:38:57Sen. Blackburn: On what Mr. whitehouse has said, because this is something under president biden that happened to senator hagerty and me not once, but twice. And you are correct that there is not consultation, and I know you don't like that now, and I see that senator durbin's staff is trying to inform him, but I will remind them, we corrected the record when this occurred
▶ 0:39:29Sen. Blackburn: And told you all you needed to stop pushing forward these judges without working with us. So shoe's on the other foot.
▶ 0:39:39Chair Grassley: I plead with my republican colleagues, if we want to get these nominations out, I said I would stay afterwards to hear anything you want to say senator durbin.
▶ 0:39:53Sen. Durbin: I want to associate myself with senator whitehouse on the blue slip. I chair the committee, I did my best to honor the blue slip and I was criticized on the left. Now the worms have turned, or whatever you want to say, I'm being criticized on the right, we need more blue slip, they say. It should apply in both circumstances.
▶ 0:40:14Chair Grassley: Now remarks by senator graham.
▶ 0:40:17Sen. Graham: Very quickly, today we are going to vote on bryan stirling to be attorney for the district of south carolina. He graduated from the south carolina school of law and was on nikki haley's staff and spent 12 years in charge of the department of corrections and his interim status. I think he is a really great choice and I urge our members to vote for him.
▶ 0:40:44Chair Grassley: We have got 25 minutes to get out these nominations, so the clerk will call the roll on rebecca taibleson. [roll call]
▶ 0:41:44Chair Grassley: The nominee of will be favorably reported. Now we go to david bragdon. Clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
▶ 0:42:41Chair Grassley: David bragdon will be favorably reported. Now we go to lindsay ann freeman. Clerk will call the roll. Clerk will call the roll? [roll call]
▶ 0:43:48Chair Grassley: Lindsey freeman will be reported. Now we go to matthew orso. Clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
▶ 0:44:44Chair Grassley: Reported to the floor --matthew orso will be reported to the floor. Now susan courtwright rodriguez. Clerk will call the roll.
▶ 0:44:59Chair Grassley: [roll call] >>
▶ 0:45:51Chair Grassley: On this vote the ayes are 17, the noes are five.
▶ 0:46:00Chair Grassley: Susan courtwright rodriguez will be reported to the senate floor. Sara carter bailey --
▶ 0:46:09Sen. Durbin: Mr. chairman, sara carter bailey is the latest loyalist nominated for a position and is totally unqualified. She is not a physician or an addiction specialist. Prior to june 2025, she never worked for the government. Who exactly issue who exactly isis she? Ms.
▶ 0:46:34Sen. Durbin: Cartetr bailey calls herself and investigative journalist, but even fox news's sean hannity was told not to use that title because her reporting is unreliable. Her only qualification is really to the president. She called for impeaching judges who rule against him. When it comes to january 6 rioters, she chose the line.
▶ 0:47:04Sen. Durbin: She supports the president's nonsensical budget cuts to programs and is apparently confused about that. She is not qualified for this job and I will be voting no.
▶ 0:47:12Chair Grassley: Clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
▶ 0:48:02Chair Grassley: >> on this vote the ayes are 12, nays are 10.
▶ 0:48:08Chair Grassley: Sara carter bailey will be reported to the senate.
▶ 0:48:12Sen. Blackburn: Mr. chairman, I would like to speak on braden boucek for just a moment. We know with his nomination, president trump continuing to push forward very well qualified judges. He has been an assistant U.S. attorney in both memphis and nashville. He has been a prosecutor for the state of tennessee and an assistant attorney general and an assistant da.
▶ 0:48:44Sen. Blackburn: He has prosecuted hundreds of cases ranging from organized crime and drug trafficking offenses to terrorism and immigration. He currently serves as vice president of mitigation at southeastern legal foundation -- of litigation at southeastern legal foundation, where he focuses every single day on the protection of the american people's constitutional rights. I urge a yes vote.
▶ 0:49:09Chair Grassley: Clerk will call the roll on braden boucek. [roll call]
▶ 0:49:57Chair Grassley: >> on this vote the ayes are 12, noes are 10.
▶ 0:50:05Chair Grassley: Braden boucek we reported to the senate could now we call on dominic grace ii, attorney, southern district of ohio. The clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
▶ 0:51:14Sen. Klobuchar: Mr. chair, I'm going to be an aye on that one.
▶ 0:51:21Chair Grassley: Did the click here -- clerk hear senator klobuchar? Dominick gerace ii will be reported to the floor. Senator coons wanted a statement in the record.
▶ 0:51:42Chair Grassley: The next nominee is jerome gorgon, jr., eastern district, michigan. Clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
▶ 0:52:50Chair Grassley: Jerome gorgon, jr., will be reported to the floor. Now we call on bryan stirling, south carolina. Oh. I'm -- >> [indiscernible]
▶ 0:53:13Chair Grassley: You have heard the correction. Now we are going to bryan stirling, U.S. attorney, south carolina. Clerk will call the roll. [roll call]
▶ 0:54:21Chair Grassley: >> on this vote the ayes are 15, the nays are five.
▶ 0:54:29Chair Grassley: Bryan stirling will be reported to the senate. Before we vote on this last nominee, I said I would stay for any speeches, republican or democrat, but I hope some will stay not only to speak, but to listen to what is said. Now we are going to vote on thomas wheeler ii for indiana's southern district. Clerk will call the roll.
▶ 0:54:57Chair Grassley: Uh, thomas wheeler ii for indiana. [roll call]
▶ 0:55:54Chair Grassley: >> on this vote the ayes are 12, nays are 10.
▶ 0:56:00Chair Grassley: Thomas wheeler will be reported. Now we call on senator whitehouse.
▶ 0:56:06Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you very much. I would like to make two points. The first has to do with arctic frost and the information, chairman, that you released the other day.
▶ 0:56:21Sen. Whitehouse: It's been described as a politically weaponized investigation, but I asked my colleagues, should there have been no investigation of the raiding and ransacking of the united states capitol? Of course there should have been an investigation.
▶ 0:56:43Sen. Whitehouse: By the way, I was with many of you during those dark hours, and there was no doubt in anybody's mind in the senate at that point that crimes had been committed and they needed to be investigated. So please let's not pretend that the fact that the fbi investigated the raiding and ransacking of the united states capitol is itself politically weaponized. That is their job.
▶ 0:57:13Sen. Whitehouse: To the question of senators being in the list of toll record investigations, I'm eager to get to the bottom of that. I think we should get to the bottom of that. But let's remember what this was . This was toll records, which for those of us who have been prosecuting for a while is similar to a pen register.
▶ 0:57:45Sen. Whitehouse: Which is where in the old days the phone company would clip a register on to the wire and you wouldn't know what was said, you what other number and for how long -- what number called what other number and for how long.
▶ 0:58:05Sen. Whitehouse: When you have what prosecutors recall predication to put a pen register on one number, you necessarily pick up everybody else who was called. That doesn't make them the subjects of any investigation. Similarly, if you are running a wiretap -- by the way, a pen register is not a wiretap.
▶ 0:58:41Sen. Whitehouse: Senators on this committee should be knowledgeable and scrupulous enough not to confuse the two. But were this a wiretap, the same thing would take place. If as U.S. attorney I got a wiretap on a rhode island mobster, and that monster called -- that mobster called the butcher, the baker, or the babysitter, the butcher, the baker, or the babysitter are now
▶ 0:59:11Sen. Whitehouse: Swept into the investigation by virtue of having been called. It doesn't make them the subject of any investigation. And with wiretaps, it works that you have minimization procedures so you shut it off and so forth. But this wasn't a wiretap. This was toll records, the modern equivalent of a pen register that only shows who was called.
▶ 0:59:34Sen. Whitehouse: So before we start to reach irate conclusions about weaponized fbis going after people, it is with people, it is w worth taking a calming step back to consider the possibility that the fbi had proper predication for certain phones and that those funds then called to the senators. -- those phones then called the senators.
▶ 1:00:02Sen. Whitehouse: I don't know what happened, and I support the chairman's desire to investigate this. But we should investigate this without reaching dire conclusions before we have the evidence. Because there is a very clear investigative scenario in which the fbi has upper predication -- proper predication to get full records, -- toll records, or in the old days a pen register, on
▶ 1:00:34Sen. Whitehouse: An investigated target's phone, and necessarily anyone the target called comes into the toll record, the pen register. That's just how it works. That is what investigations are supposed to do. If there is proper predication, you go to the second step to see if there is a basis for investigation of the person at the other end of the call.
▶ 1:00:59Sen. Whitehouse: So let's just understand that we should be drawing a lot of irate conclusions before we know the facts and the context of how such investigations actually work. Here is the second they hang. This goes back to the ranking member's comment--here is the second thing. This goes back to the ranking member's comments about yesterday. Yesterday was an awful day in the history of this committee.
▶ 1:01:26Sen. Whitehouse: It set new low after new low afternoon lo--after new low. I'm not going to talk about all of the new lows. I'm going to talk about one in particular.
▶ 1:01:41Sen. Whitehouse: And that is whether anybody noticed the irony, the irony that the day before the united states department of justice arraigned a former fbi director for allegedly making untruthful statements to this committee, the attorney general of the united states sat right there and made untruthful statements to this committee.
▶ 1:02:13Sen. Whitehouse: They weren't maybe untruthful statements. This wasn't a question of nuance. She made allegations about the ranking member and me having received political contributions from some, she said, epstein was confidant --epstein close confidant. Guess what, that's actually checkable. There is something called the federal election commission.
▶ 1:02:42Sen. Whitehouse: The federal election commission gives a website that tracks all of our contributions. An intern at the department of justice could have checked to see that the allegation -- I will leave it to myself, that I had received campaign contributions from this individual, that that was false. And it is not a maybe answer, it's yes or no, did I or didn't I.
▶ 1:03:15Sen. Whitehouse: There is unimpeachable record showing that what she said sitting right there is not true. If we are going to care about untruthful statements made by the department of justice and the fbi and this committee, let's not have this be yet another area where there are different rules for one party than for the other party.
▶ 1:03:31Sen. Whitehouse: And just, by the way, on that very subject, the other thing that the attorney general geared sitting right there was to all cover -- was to strip all cover away from the untruthful statements that had been made to this committee by the current fbi director. You all heard him here.
▶ 1:03:57Sen. Whitehouse: He said that he couldn't tell us about his grand jury testimony in the mar-a-lago case, where he first pled the fifth, then got immunity, then testified. He couldn't tell us what he testified to, he said, because the department of justice had sealed the testimony and because there was a court order barring him from doing that.
▶ 1:04:23Sen. Whitehouse: And he actually identified which judge, the chief judge of the D.C. federal district court. Well, guess what, we know that since then, the chief judge of the D.C. federal district court has said that was not true. He said specifically nothing prevented director patel from discussing his grand jury testimony.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Whitehouse: And yesterday the attorney general had the chance to say "you're right, we did seal the testimony in that matter, the department of justice did seal the testimony," and patel's statement was true, not about the court order, but he was healed by the department of justice. She didn't say that.
▶ 1:05:06Sen. Whitehouse: Now the testimony, doj sealed his testimony, and there was a court order barring his testimony, are kind of demonstrably false, false statements to this committee. And then when he came back and we challenged him on those false statements, his second false statement was to say "I'm not going to answer any of those questions because my transcript
▶ 1:05:37Sen. Whitehouse: Of the grand jury testimony, I have worked with the doj to see that it is publicly released." well, it either has been publicly released or it hasn't. It is a very simple distinction, yes or no. And we all know that it has not in fact been publicly released. And when we ask about that from the attorney general, again she left him high and dry and refused to say that anything had been publicly released, that there was any publicly released transcript.
▶ 1:06:11Sen. Whitehouse: So yesterday stands in really stark contrast -- I should say the day before yesterday stands in really stark contrast to yesterday. Yesterday and fbi director was arraigned for making a false statement. The day before that the attorney general of the united states made arguably even falser statements we will see how the other case turns out.
▶ 1:06:38Sen. Whitehouse: And she left the current fbi director completely exposed on his multiple false statements on his grand jury testimony in the mar-a-lago case had been sealed by the justice department, was under court order not to be released, and had since been publicly released as a transcript.
▶ 1:06:56Sen. Whitehouse: I don't know if this committee is going to take itself seriously enough to treat false statements to this committee as serious matters irrespective of who made them. But the contrast is really stark. Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:07:18Chair Grassley: Before you go, I would like to add, on the first point you made, I would like to -- not to subtract from anything you said, but add to it what I know. We are following up on the information that you want us to follow up on, that you said you wanted us to get the backing of what happened when eight republican senators' phone records.
▶ 1:07:50Chair Grassley: I think the fbi is cooperating very well with us. I think we are getting and still going to get more. Then it goes to the department of justice. I want the department of justice to get over this stuff that you going to go through a dozen levels of review before it ever is given to the congress of the united states. And that is kind of where we are.
▶ 1:08:17Chair Grassley: But I also want to add that what I know is emails show political bias affected the origins of the investigation. There is no basis to get the toll records from senators. I see it from the emails that I have seen. And I've gotten these from whistleblowers, so they haven't had to go through the bureaucracy I just told about at doj.
▶ 1:08:48Chair Grassley: I think it shows that the arctic frost was a phishing expedition. I put out enough records to prove that, just adding to what your concerns are. I am not objecting to your legitimacy about the investigation of january 6.
▶ 1:09:10Chair Grassley: I am talking about the subpoenaing of 92 republican conservative organizations and then the eight senators. I think that kind of proves that it is a phishing expedition, in addition to the legitimacy of what he said about january 6. Senator cornyn.
▶ 1:09:34Sen. Cornyn: Imagine my surprise when senate democrats are trying to resurrect a long rejected idea associated with slavery in the early days of the united states of america that state and local officials can nullify federal law.
▶ 1:09:58Sen. Cornyn: That is what the governor of illinois, that is what the mayor of chicago is advocating, that somehow state and local laws and the decisions made by state and local law enforcement nullify federal law-enforcement. -- nullify federal law enforcement efforts.
▶ 1:10:24Sen. Cornyn: I think it is an indication of how desperate they become to try to justify the violent that has been directed towards ice agents seeking to enforce immigration laws in the national guard deployed by the state of texas, for example, to help protect the citizens of illinois and protected federal property and protect -- and enforce federal law.
▶ 1:10:49Sen. Cornyn: I know the ranking member said he didn't hear any justification for the use of this, but every high-school civics student knows, I would hope, that under the constitution, article vi, federal law is the law of the land.
▶ 1:11:08Sen. Cornyn: And that is what these federal officers are doing, being deployed to places around the country like chicago, where local and state officials simply refuse to provide for protection of federal law enforcement officers enforcing federal law.
▶ 1:11:33Sen. Cornyn: I'm shocked that they would want to be associated with a doctrine of nullification that was first advocated by the states' rights advocates in the run-up to the civil war on behalf of protecting the institution of slavery.
▶ 1:11:50Sen. Cornyn: It is -- it obviously demonstrates that something else is going on here, because I know all of the members of this committee certainly know as committee certainly know at least as much as a high-school civics student knows about the supremacy of federal law under the united states constitution. So something else must be at play here.
▶ 1:12:16Sen. Cornyn: And while they say their reaction to all this isn't because they hate president trump, it also seems to me to bea rejection not only of federal law and the constitutional authority given to federal authorities to enforce that law, but also a repudiation, a rejection of the election of president trump, who was elected in large part on the basis that the biden administration had opened the borders of the united states to
▶ 1:12:48Sen. Cornyn: Untold numbers of individuals, some of whom came here for reasons we all understand, for a better life, others came here to commit crimes and attack an assault and kill, even, american citizens, like laken riley. And we've seen the flood of illegal drugs coming across the border as a result of these policies.
▶ 1:13:13Sen. Cornyn: And now president trump is trying to fulfill his mandate given on november 5 last year to clean up the mess created by the biden administration's lawless policies, including the repatriation or deportation of roughly 282,000 individuals who have final orders of deportation . There is no question of due process there, they have had their process.
▶ 1:13:44Sen. Cornyn: And they are under final orders of deportation. So what I understand our democratic colleagues to be saying is not only can local and state officials nullify federal law, but they can also reject the mandate of the voters who elected this president based on his promise to enforce federal law, unlike the previous administration. I thought the attorney general was quite clear when she said the constitution is the law of the land.
▶ 1:14:14Sen. Cornyn: Federal law needs to be enforced by federal officials wherever there is a effort to break federal law or destroy federal property. So I think the authority is absolute crystal clear.
▶ 1:14:34Sen. Cornyn: And you have to wonder based on the fact that members of this committee are smart, knowledgeable individuals, certainly who understand the constitution and the role of the supremacy clause under the federal constitution, that there must be something else at play else at play here.
▶ 1:14:51Sen. Cornyn: I suggest it is just politics and in an effort to appease their radical doesn't believe that we ought to enforce the law, including our immigration laws, and it is ok to attack federal law enforcement officials like immigrations and customs and when they are enforcing federal law, as has happened in texas four different times since june resulting in the death of even
▶ 1:15:22Sen. Cornyn: Some of the detainees that they purport to be defending. So, I think it's clear that there is something else at play here. Everybody can reach their own conclusion, but it certainly isn't any basis in law that would allow local and state officials to nullify federal law and enforcement efforts by federal law enforcement officials. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:15:49Chair Grassley: Senator durbin and then senator schiff. Senator durbin.
▶ 1:15:55Sen. Durbin: Mr. chairman, a president is limited by the constitution and the law. The fact that he is the supreme voice in the land of the constitution doesn't give him the authority to do things without legal authorization.
▶ 1:16:13Sen. Durbin: That question has been raised in the state of oregon and the conclusion is the president overstepped when he sent the national guard into oregon and try to federalize it in that situation. It takes more than a tweet, more than a press conference, more than a rally. It takes the law to authorize the president to do these things. That is being tested in the courts of illinois even today. Let me also say that I attempted to ask that basic question.
▶ 1:16:48Sen. Durbin: The legal authority of the president to federalize the national guard and send them into the state without the approval of the governor. She refused to answer. She said I must take donald trump to ask such a question. It is not a hate or love situation. It is just a question of the law and still is. The point I want to make as well is there is a false narrative here that this is all about the litany. You remember the litany. You heard it many times. Murderers. Rapists. Terrorists.
▶ 1:17:18Sen. Durbin: People who engage in sexual predatory crimes. Basically, those involved in the most heinous crimes are coming into this country and need to be stopped. That is supposedly what we are stopping now. Tuesday, september 30, this group in chicago decided to assault a building in the middle of the night. 22 hundred block of south shore drive. Some 43 people were rousted out of bed.
▶ 1:17:43Sen. Durbin: They broke down their doors, brought out their children with zip ties on their hands, and held them for interrogation. They didn't know in advance who was in there nor suspect any particular individuals. It is the kind of outrageous conduct by this force, whatever their inspiration may be, that has turned a lot of people against the suppose it effort by the president to make chicago safer.
▶ 1:18:10Sen. Durbin: I might add, business leaders have asked that the national guard not be sent into our state. It will hurt business, tourism, and it's totally, totally unnecessary. This isn't a question of civil wars and reconstruction and the constitution. It is a question of whether we are a nation of laws. Today the court in chicago will make that decision. I hope as the court in oregon did.
▶ 1:18:38Chair Grassley: Senator schiff.
▶ 1:18:41Sen. Schiff: Thank you, Mr. chairman. One of the advantages of being the junior most member of the committee on our side of the isle is you get to listen to everything that has gone on before you during the course of the hearing. I want to add my voice to my colleagues who raised the concern about what happened yesterday.
▶ 1:19:01Sen. Schiff: I listened to my ranking member asked a legitimate oversight question -- ask a legitimate oversight question about the basis for troops to be repelling from a black hawk helicopter for a military-style assault on an apartment building in a major city, the zip tying of children. What was the legal basis for this?
▶ 1:19:26Sen. Schiff: I heard my ranking member asked that very simple question, completely appropriate question. If that is not an appropriate oversight question, I don't know what an appropriate oversight question is. The response was not just to refuse to answer the question, it was to attack the character of the ranking member and insult him.
▶ 1:19:48Sen. Schiff: And then, when it was senator whitehouse's turn to ask a question, he asked a legitimate oversight question about an fbi undercover operation in which purportedly $50,000 was paid to the white house border czar prior to him becoming the white house border czar that he would be helpful when he became the white house border czar. What happened to the money?
▶ 1:20:18Sen. Schiff: A perfectly legitimate oversight question. Rather than answer that question in a closed investigation, not an open investigation but closed investigation, she simply attacked a senator whitehouse personally. I heard another one of my colleagues ask what was the legal basis for blowing up ships in the caribbean? Reportedly the justice department wrote an opinion justify blowing up ships in the caribbean. A perfectly legitimate oversight question.
▶ 1:20:48Sen. Schiff: The response was another personal attack. What were apparently canned, written personal attacks in advance. The attacks on me, I have grown all too accustomed to them in the past eight years. But if members of this committee cannot asked those questions and get serious answers we can't do oversight. I knew this committee.
▶ 1:21:19Sen. Schiff: I spent about a decade on the house judiciary committee. I never saw a hearing like this with a cabinet officer. If I did and some candidate, democratic cabinet officer were to attack each of my republican colleagues I would call for a stop to it. It would be disgraceful.
▶ 1:21:40Sen. Schiff: And I understand the reluctance to criticize your side of the aisle, one of the republican cabinet members, but if this becomes the template for future hearings we won't be able to do any oversight and things will just degenerate. These questions deserve answers.
▶ 1:21:59Sen. Schiff: I would expect that if troops were repelling from helicopters in any city in any of your states and hong kong children -- hog tying children, you would want to know the legal basis, and so what I. We would submit for the record in written form the questions the attorney general refused to answer. I would hope, Mr.
▶ 1:22:27Sen. Schiff: Chairman, you would join us in submitting these questions. They would have a much better chance of being answered if you join us in submitting those questions, but I would also hope in the future that if a witness, rather than respond, simply attacks our members that it be stopped. That the witness be instructed to either answer the question or to state why they are refusing to answer the question but refrain from personal attacks on the members of this committee. That would be my request.
▶ 1:22:57Sen. Schiff: Mr. chairman, I am really grateful to be on this committee and I appreciate every interaction that I've had with you. In our personal interactions you have always been eminently fair. If I didn't think that you were of that character I wouldn't even raise this because there wouldn't be a point, but I would ask that we not have another hearing like that one and that you join in our legitimate oversight request. With that, yelled back, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:23:24Chair Grassley: I thought that I set the decorum for an hearing, oversight hearing when I said before we asked the director of the any questions or any statements that we should, both sides, treat each other with respect.
▶ 1:23:49Chair Grassley: And I even said to patel if you don't get a chance to answer your questions I will give you an opportunity after the senator's finish for a few minutes to respond to whatever you didn't get a chance to say. You know how that meeting turned out. Particularly from your side of the aisle, a lot of strong statements about the fbi director. Whether they were legitimate or not is beside the point.
▶ 1:24:21Chair Grassley: It didn't follow the decorum. Obviously the director of the fbi didn't follow decorum. I don't know what else I can do then plead with my people that were fellow senators to follow a certain decorum. And I assumed it would be followed on the other side.
▶ 1:24:40Chair Grassley: I don't appreciate the insults that went to democrat members, particularly where they were wrong, but after seeing how senators handled the fbi director I guess I felt that -- just let the show go on the way the senators want it to go on and that is what developed as a result.
▶ 1:25:04Chair Grassley: That may be a weak excuse for what happened that day, but I thought things didn't work out the way I expected them to win the fbi director was here, and some people on your side of the aisle were some of the ones who were screaming, yelling, and talking over the fbi director. Meeting adjourned. [gavel falls]